January 28, 2025 • 47 mins
Join us for an engaging conversation with Jason Morrison, a veteran educator with more than 20 years of experience in higher education. Jason takes us through his remarkable journey from a classroom instructor to his current role as president of Trinity Valley Community College. With insights drawn from his leadership at Southern Arkansas University Tech, he sheds light on the common challenges faced by these institutions and how they strive to serve students, especially those who are first-generation or economically disadvantaged. Listen in as Jason shares his unique blue-collar, hands-on leadership style, and challenges the traditional pomp of academia with his vision for straightforward, student-centered celebrations.
Discover how two-year colleges are navigating the complex landscape of education amid post-COVID-19 changes. From the rising demand for mental health resources to the fierce competition with four-year institutions, Jason discusses how these colleges can tailor educational pathways to suit individual student needs. Highlighting the often-underestimated value of two-year colleges, he emphasizes their role in providing flexible, supportive environments that promote inclusivity. We unravel the hurdles these institutions face in communicating their worth amidst a sea of competing information and marketing from other educational entities, stressing the importance of making education accessible to all students.
Dive into the vibrant offerings that make top junior colleges stand out, from celebrated athletics to diverse cultural programs. Learn about Jason's strategic approach to nurturing local talent in geographically challenging areas, focusing on leadership training and internal growth. He shares experiences from his journeys in Arkansas and Texas, revealing the cost-effectiveness of developing existing staff. Concluding the episode, we delve into the importance of earning respect and national recognition for two-year colleges through tangible student success outcomes, community support, and financial backing. Witness how these institutions can transform not only students' futures but also the lives of their families, securing their rightful place in the higher education landscape.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
I'm excited to speak to Jason Morrison here.
Jason welcome.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Thank you, sir, looking forward to it,
appreciate you having me on.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Well, it's great, it's been great to read a little
bit about you and hear moreabout your background, but maybe
, just as a starting place, ifyou could just sort of give a
quick snapshot into who you areand the work you do who you are
and the work you do, and then Iwould love to know just some of
the subtle differences in termsof leading Trinity Valley versus
(00:29):
the work that you did at aplace like Southern Arkansas
University, and how those, thosetwo really differ.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Okay, well, as far as my background, I've been in
higher education for 20 plusyears now.
I've been at the president'slevel for eight years now.
I taught.
I was a classroom instructorfor about 11 years of my career
before I went intoadministration.
I had a very quick processthrough some of the ranks.
(01:01):
I spent two years as a dean ofarts and sciences at Western
Oklahoma State.
Then I moved to a largertwo-year college system which
covered basically the geographicarea of the state of
Connecticut in central Nebraska,where I was the dean of all the
academic education on all theircampuses and sites sites.
(01:26):
I was there for 11 monthsbefore I was appointed to my
first vice president's job atCarl Albert State College in
Oklahoma, and I was a VP foracademics for two and a half
years before I received my firstappointment as chancellor
president at Southern ArkansasUniversity of Tech, and after
six and a half years there, Imade the move to the great state
of Texas and took over aspresident at Trinity Valley
(01:48):
Community College, where I'mover a year and a half in now at
Trinity Valley.
As far as the differencesbetween the two schools, at the
heart of it, there is nodifference At the heart.
You're serving students At SAUTech.
We served a very diversepopulation of students, very
economically disadvantagedpopulation, while we sat in the
(02:11):
backyard of a major defensesector I mean most people
wouldn't realize in Camden,arkansas, you had the likes of
Lockheed, aerojet, raytheon, allthese billion-dollar defense
companies in one of the poorestareas in the state and so you
really had to fight the battleof enfranchising individuals to
(02:34):
see the value of education andthe importance of education,
while working with the demandsof the defense industries to
provide training, to provide anemployment base.
But you can't put the cartbefore the horse.
You got to get the student, thepotential student, to see the
importance of education and howit's going to translate into a
(02:55):
career.
So there's no difference in themission of what we do as an
institution, no matter if it'sat Southern Arkansas University
Tech, which was a small,extremely rural-based
institution, no matter if it'sat Southern Arkansas University
Tech, which was a small,extremely rural-based
institution, or Trinity Valley,which is a larger institution.
And of course in the state ofTexas it'd be a small,
medium-sized institution, but inArkansas it would be a large
(03:17):
institution.
But you're still serving firstgeneration students.
You're still serving studentsthat are not necessarily
embracing the understanding ofthe importance of education.
You know there's not a familymember that can kind of instill
the value of education andimportance of education.
(03:38):
That, with the nationaldistrust with education that
we're seeing take hold of thelandscape, which honestly has
nothing to do with us astwo-year colleges.
It's all because your largeflagship research institutions
and the amount of they carrythemselves, that trickle down to
(03:59):
us who are kind of boots on theground, roll up your sleeves.
I kind of consider my style asmore of a blue collar style of
leadership.
There's no position that'sabove anybody else.
If the trash needs to be takenout, the trash gets taken out,
it doesn't matter who does it.
You know if the campus needs tobe picked up and clean, we're
all going to pitch in and dothat and I think that's helped
(04:23):
me.
You know, from SAU Tech toTrinity Valley, that kind of the
blue-collar mindset of you.
Know, let's go to work.
I've talked to colleagues andthey talk about investitude and
you know getting installed as apresident and I've never had a
celebration like that.
Because I don't desire acelebration like that, tell me
where to clock in and let's goto work our celebration like
(04:45):
that.
Tell me where to clock in atand let's go to work.
You know, let's clock in, let'sdo the work that's needed,
because our students are notthat concerned with those things
Our students want to know.
Do you care?
What are you going to do?
What is this education, what isthis training going to do?
To help me get out of theposition that I'm in and help me
lift myself out, liftthemselves up into a new
(05:07):
position in life and havestability.
That's all they're looking for.
And so a lot of the stuff thatsurrounds higher education is
just what it is.
It surrounds higher education.
It's not what it's at the coreof it, and I think that's true
no matter what institutionyou're at is.
(05:27):
If you ever lose sight ofwhat's your core, and that's
your students, then you're introuble.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
So true, so true.
That's really well said.
I appreciate the blue collarmindset and just rolling up your
sleeves and getting to work,you know, down to the ceremonies
and all of the individualthings where you know you're all
dressed like harry potter andit's, it's just it's.
It seems so unnecessary, justgiven sort of what the end?
You know what the end task is.
(05:53):
So so I love that.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
That focus um well, I'll give you an example.
We had graduation last fridayand you know and you you do that
let's celebrate the fall of2024, commencement.
And I proceeded to tell themlet's not look at it as a
commencement, let's look at itas a party, let's look at it as
a celebration.
So if you're up in the standsand your child walks across the
(06:17):
stage, yell as loud as you wantto yell.
I think we had some cowbells inthere, we had some, I mean, we
had all sorts of stuff.
Because for that child that'swalking across the stage, the
first person in their family,and let's say they're getting a
nursing degree, you know they'regoing to be an RN.
They're walking across thatstage.
You know, for the first time,first member of their family.
(06:39):
Think about how quickly theirlife changed.
Maybe they went from kind ofbelow the poverty line as a
member of their family to nowmaking what an RN can command in
the job sector.
Think about that lifetransformational moment.
So we don't need the littlegolf clap, you know.
Congratulations, my gosh.
(07:00):
I know those parents are proudof their child because a nursing
program is one of the toughestprograms you know at any college
and they made it through.
Well, that's true for all theseprograms.
You know a student becomes awelder or a student that's on
their way to transfer and becomea teacher.
They're taking the steps toreach success.
You know the sacrifices, theurgency building the character.
(07:21):
You know some things.
I covered in my speech lastFriday that they're doing these
things in order to reach success.
You know, and other people,don't define yourself success.
You define your successinstitution by these
publications out there.
What makes us a successfulleader?
Because you participate in someinstitute or some leadership
(07:49):
academy or whatever.
We're always too busy lettingsomeone else define who we are
versus defining who we are.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
Well said.
Well said, and I mean theeconomic impact of that degree
is generational right.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
Yes, I mean it changes the whole landscape for
that family.
Somebody's done it.
Now you can be the next.
Once the first person's done it, the path is easier, it's more
understandable.
You know the barriers, you knowthe things that you have to
navigate it just.
But not only does it changethat one person, but you change
that whole family and thatfamily helps change another
(08:25):
family and the other family andbefore you know it you change
the whole community and youcontradict what I always tell
people or you defeat what Ialways tell people.
I always tell people culturedefeats intellect.
But once you start making thechange and you start getting one
person to make a difference andthat may trickle down to
another person pretty soon youchange the culture which
(08:48):
redefines the intellect of thatcommunity.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
So true, so true.
What are some of the challengesthat you all have when it comes
to, like, enrollment andretention?
Right, because there's so manycomplicated factors that you're
dealing with.
There's so many complicatedfactors that you're dealing with
, right.
You've got first-gen studentsthat don't have resources to you
know to do so many differentthings.
You've got so many differentemployers that have big needs,
(09:13):
like how do you think aboutsquaring the circle on all these
pieces but, at the same time,keeping yourself fiscally viable
and delivering on that mission?
Speaker 2 (09:24):
Fortunately for us, the state of Texas really
supports as institutions ofhigher education.
There's a great commitment.
When you're in the eighthlargest economy in the world as
a state, there's going to be avalue to education and training,
and so I think that's one ofthe key things, and one of the
things that I think thatintrigued me to make the move to
(09:46):
Trinity Valley is because thereis a commitment.
Now there's also a lot ofcompeting interests and that's
where the struggle as far asenrollment and things like that.
You know we're pressing a lotof dual credit, concurrent
education among students whilethey're in high school.
You know, even starting themout as early as a freshman a
freshman in high school.
(10:07):
So you got 14-year-olds tryingto tell them here's your track,
they're 14.
How many of us changed our majorin college?
You know I was all set to go tolaw school, but here I am in
higher education now.
You know all because someoneasked me if I wanted to teach,
you know, us government class.
You know, while I was a gradstudent.
You know people change, but wehave this economic need to
(10:32):
produce a workforce and so wejust keep going lower and lower.
I think it's important that,yes, we give information to
those students at those levels,but we also be patient with
those students at those levelsbecause they're still young
people trying to make a decisionon what their future holds and
they also have competinginterests within their family
(10:53):
and family responsibility andfamily expectations.
And so now we're here, whileyou're doing this, choose a
degree.
So I think we have to balancethat out as a competing interest
and create a greaterunderstanding of the pathways
and options for students.
You know and realize, even atthat age, when they're a
freshman and sophomore in highschool, there's still brain
(11:16):
development and kind of thatdevelopment of the emotional
state, along with the kind ofintellectual state of a person.
That's still taking place andthe gaps.
So we've got to be carefulbecause I think in a few years
we may be seeing articles aboutburnout because of how we
(11:37):
approached it.
You know, give us 10 years andwe'll have someone write a
publication on it and they'll belike, oh, that might have been
too aggressive, but you alsodo've been too aggressive, but
you also do need to beaggressive.
It's trying to find that happymedium.
So we're looking at the pressureof dual credit in our school
(11:58):
systems and more kids being putinto dual credit and just taking
some type of classes.
And then you got the competinginterests of the four-year
universities.
As enrollment numbers becometighter, they're now dipping
down and saying we're taking allstudents.
Covid gave us the period inwhich everybody eliminated
(12:19):
entrance requirements.
Well, did you do that becauseyou truly care about the student
?
I mean, I don't think I have tosay any more than that.
Did you do that because youtruly care about the student?
I mean, I think that's a Idon't think I have to say any
more than that.
Did you really eliminate allenrollment type requirements
because you cared about thestudent or did you care about a
number?
And so, as we see thatcompetition for that it's where
(12:42):
are we putting what's right forthe student, making sure they're
in a position to be successfuland they have an opportunity to
receive the support that theyneed, because a lot of these
students are going to need,because of the aftermath of
COVID and all that, need theextra student support services,
need the extra student supportservices.
You know our advocacy center,which houses our food pantry and
clothing pantry and all that isat record use, our mental
(13:05):
health services, record use.
You know just all these thingsthat you're seeing an increase
in need and what environment isgoing to be more successful.
So we got four year.
You know, competition.
We got dual credit competition.
It's not competition, I wouldjust say kind of muddying all
the waters.
(13:26):
And here, at the two year level,we still had to maintain a
focus of being the place whereeverybody has an opportunity, an
equal opportunity to besuccessful.
An equal opportunity to besuccessful.
You know that we don't matterif you come with low economic
status.
We don't matter if you comewith first generational status,
we don't come.
It doesn't matter what youbring with you.
(13:48):
We have to figure out what willhelp you be successful while
you're here.
And so our instructors know that, our staff knows that, and so
it's a more hands on approachand I think it's just it's going
to, as we see the increase inneed of all these services, it's
just going to be more chaoticon how to connect these services
(14:12):
with students, while we haveall these competing interests
saying you need to hear, youneed to start here, you need to
go here.
You know, at the end of the daywe need to ask ourselves what's
best for that student.
You know, before we putstudents in concurrent classes.
Is that right for that student,you know?
Is it too soon or is it theright time?
(14:34):
Because you know every studentis different as an individual
and we got to make sure we don'tcreate distress for that
student in the name of trying tohelp that student.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
Because, to your point, you know, there's so much
competing information, they'rebeing bombarded with so much,
and you've got private collegesand institutions, four-year
places, that are trying to hitenrollment goals, so they're
marketing harder.
You know, you have, I think,high school guidance counselors
in high schools that are tryingto just get students into
(15:09):
college more than sort ofnecessarily sort of steering
them in different directions.
Everyone's got their own sortof incentives.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
Get them accepted not necessarily the right fit.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
Right, exactly Right.
So the incentive structure is alittle bit tough and I can
imagine it puts you in a reallytricky position because it's
like you're trying to have thesesort of early and often touch
points that are sort oforganically meet so people know
who you are and the valueproposition that you're bringing
.
(15:39):
But you're kind of trying to besignal, not noise, right.
Like you know, we have thissuper valuable thing that is a
fit and you know, but there's somany competing inferences,
there's so much informationthat's really sort of bombarding
students.
So it's a really tough place toreally sort of mitigate and
figure out how do you do thiseffectively and what's the
dosing of messaging and thetiming and the why and when are
(16:03):
you hitting with them?
It's such a tricky thing tocircle.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
How do you truly highlight your value, because
there's so many competinginterests that we're talking
about, how do you get your lightto shine bright that attracts
the interest of students?
Because, let's be honest, Imean, we know we still live,
even with all the workforceinitiatives and the drive
towards workforce type programs,you know, shorter term programs
(16:25):
we still know we live in a fouryear or die kind of educational
sector where we press the valueof four year education and
we're not discounting thatbecause I want my students and I
have four year degrees, youknow I have.
I have four year degrees, youknow I have.
(16:47):
I have a bachelor's in nursing.
We're in the process of gettinga bachelor's in elementary
education.
So I understand truly the valueof that.
My thing is, how do we get ourlight to capture the attention
of the student that most needsit?
Yeah, because, being a studentthat probably should have
started off at a two-yearcollege, I ran off through the
four-year.
You know scholarships,everything didn't have the
(17:09):
social maturity and the balanceto handle that.
So let's say it wasn't verysuccessful that first year, you
know.
But I had parents that saidyou're going to do this, you're
going to figure it out, and noteverybody has that.
So my goal and that's what Itell my people is we got to make
our light shine bright sopeople know we're here and we're
(17:31):
an opportunity and we're goingto wrap our arms around them to
be successful.
They may choose to go somewhereelse.
That's fine.
We'll help you in that processtoo, because we know with how
fluctuating the population is inhigher education, you know a
lot of students are attendingtwo to three schools.
You know, in their educationalcareer we can still be there for
(17:52):
them when they need us and wesee a lot of kids return, you
know, back from the four-year toenroll at the two-year level
and we can create a pathway forthem to be successful.
You know, hopefully we get thembefore they have too much
academic damage or evenfinancial aid damage done to
their record.
But we work to repair that, youknow, and work with them on
(18:15):
those things.
It's just we got to.
I guess the biggest frustratingpoint for me is when we say we
value education, that does meantwo-year colleges and I feel
like sometimes two-year collegesget overshadowed.
And when we say highereducation, we're only talking
about the large universities,and I see this and I've fought
(18:40):
this in multiple differentstates.
When people say, well, my kidsdon't need to go to college,
they just need to go to you, I'mlike I am a college, we are a
college, we are a highereducation institution.
We're still fighting that kindof mindset.
You know at least that's whatI've experienced, being my
(19:04):
career has mostly been in ruraltype states is this mindset that
somehow college, communitycollege, is not higher education
.
It is absolutely highereducation.
You get a one year degree, atwo year degree.
Or if I train you how to workon a, operate a forklift, that's
higher education.
I wish there was just a magicpotion that would make people
(19:31):
understand that junior colleges,two-year colleges, community
colleges, technical institutesare higher education.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
Completely.
It's absolutely mind bogglingand I'm a pretty big data guy,
so I think about it in terms ofthe numbers, in terms of, like
the, you know, the dollars inand dollars out, and when it
comes to dollars in, dollars out, like nobody's beating
community college, I mean thisis like it's not close, it's not
a race.
(20:03):
We're basically giving it away.
It's crazy, I mean it'sabsolutely insane.
And why it continues to sort ofbe undervalued in terms of sort
of national discourse, or whereyou have publications really
sort of focusing, or when peopleare even sort of
conceptualizing or talking aboutcollege, like why this isn't
(20:24):
necessarily referenced in likethe same way is it's really
strange and doesn't sort offully make sense, especially
when you look at just numbers ofhow many people go, the
outcomes they get, like all ofthe things that you, you know,
know so intimately well.
So it is a mind-boggling thingto wrap your mind around.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
And part of it's our fault.
We don't do a well enough jobin telling our story and I think
you've seen over the lastprobably handful of years,
you've seen community collegesstart doing a better job of
telling the story of theirstudents and I think that's
where we've struggled is,sometimes you have to brag a
little bit.
You have to brag about whatyou're doing and how you're
(21:07):
doing and the success of yourstudents, and that also through
your foundations.
You know, you look at, you knowthe foundations of large
institutions and foundations oftwo-year colleges getting more
mature in your foundations,because that helps support your
students while they go to schooland it helps tell your story.
So I think there is some of itthat's self-inflicted, because
(21:28):
we've always just done the job.
You know that, hey, as long aswe did the job and we got the
work done and they got wherethey need to go, we're good,
need to go, we're good.
But we're in a world wheremarketing and media matters and
(21:52):
especially in the world ofgenerating attention.
We have to tell our stories.
We have to be out there toshare the real value that that
student received from yourinstitution and I think, as the
coming years you're going to seethis just continue to increase
and explode where two-yearcolleges are going to be, I mean
on the same kind of multimediaplatforms as large institutions
(22:14):
and stuff.
As far as selling and retainingthe value of what the students
are obtaining or the value thatthe students receiving from your
institution, that's such animportant point and I'm glad you
went there because I thinkwe've circled this question a
little bit.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
But something that I hear all the time from
particularly college presidents,is this positioning thing and
this massive positioningchallenge and I think a lot of
people talk about.
You've already alluded to somany of these dynamics, which is
like the people talk about howhard it is to compete with peers
and with other communitycolleges or you know the realm
(22:56):
of competition, like you'vetalked about, it's so much
broader.
You're not just competingagainst community colleges,
you're competing againstfour-year colleges.
You're competing againstout-of-state colleges.
You're also competing againstthis like anti-college narrative
, right and like not going atall right and like amazing jobs
in your part of the country thatdon't require like that, you
(23:17):
know that degree or thatrequires some some like.
So there's all these sort ofcompeting factors.
There's influencers that are ontwitter that are trying to do,
how to do this micro thing.
Um, so it's so, it's massive.
Like, how do you think aboutthat positioning piece, right
when it comes to telling yourstory or selling outcomes or or
signaling to, like the rightkind of student, the value that
(23:40):
you have?
How do you think aboutpackaging that in a way that is
like renaissance to so manykinds of populations?
Because for you all, it's likeyou're not just serving that
traditional, you have a prettybroad scope of who you're
serving.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
Oh yeah, we have from traditional students, we have
to non-traditional and, you know, being a school that is very
heavy in athletics, we have thestudent athlete.
You know we have extremelyhighly successful programs,
probably as an institution, oneof the top junior colleges in
the country when it comes to topof bottom programs.
(24:14):
You know we have a cheer squadthat's internationally known
mainly because of Netflix.
That's internationally knownmainly because of Netflix.
You know we have an enormousbrand, but we are now getting to
the point where we're actuallyfocusing the selling of that
brand.
Here you go, this is TrinityValley.
We have this type of student,this type of student.
(24:35):
We have an agri program thatdoes AI research.
That's out of this world and,you think, out of your colleges,
and they're geneticallycreating, you know, show cattle
and and you know, and maximizingtheir program with the show
beef beef show team.
You, I mean you look at allthese different.
There's an opportunity, fromthe band to the choir, to
(24:58):
student government.
Our student government has won19 state titles.
What students want is a place,because a lot of these students
have missed out on so much overthe last few years.
They want a place to helpinfluence and shape their
(25:18):
identity.
So what we have to do as aninstitution and I always tell my
people all the time, if wecreate our standards, we don't
have to worry about anybodyelse's standards.
I don't see myself incompetition with the four-year
or other two years or anythinglike that.
We're going to uphold ourselvesto our standards, our
commitment to the student, andwe're going to instill that in
(25:39):
everything we do.
If we do those things, thestudents will see that and
they'll want to be a part ofthat because they'll see
themselves somewhere atinstitution Maybe it's
performing in a play one night,maybe it's being tossed up in
the air as a member of the cheersquad or playing football or
playing in the band or whateverit may be is giving students a
(26:02):
place to see themselves, becausethey've missed out on so much
of that in their earlyespecially the traditionally
students their early life thatthey just want something and
anything about non-traditionalstudents.
Many of those kind of gave upthose things because of life
happenings at early age and nowthey're returning to school.
(26:23):
Why can't they be part of thatsame experience?
You know, I always talk topeople about selling the
importance and the value of acollege experience, you know,
and the things that students arewanting to be a part of and
committed to and seeingthemselves in.
It is important and making surethat we support those things.
(26:45):
You know, giving that studenttheir chance first time to fly
somewhere and participate in aparade you know, on the East
Coast, you know, and you know,and something they've never been
able to do in their life, orwhatever experience we can
provide to a student, you know,shapes them as a person, but
(27:05):
also shapes how they see highereducation.
These students will be some ofour best advocates in the coming
years because they'll be ableto share their stories with
other students and students willbe like I didn't realize you
could do that at a two-yearcollege.
And I think the problem is weneed it to happen right now.
(27:26):
The problem is the impact isnot going to happen for a number
of years because we've got tocontinue to build that tidal
wave of momentum of sharing thatwonderful experience at our
institution.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
I love what you said around experience and place.
I think that's really powerfuland something that I don't think
I've seen community collegesnecessarily sort of lean into,
especially ones like yours thathave such a broad array of
offerings and studentexperiences and things that are
just like hyper-competitive.
With four years at a fractionof the price, Like what a great
(28:02):
differentiator.
I'm like, hey, you haven't hadthis amazing thing because of
all the weirdness in our world.
We have it.
We have it at a massivediscount.
We have this incredible sort ofvalue.
Find yourself event space place.
I love the lean into thatexperience piece.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
We want them to be at the heart of it.
We want them to have thatinteraction and that comfort
with everybody on campus.
You know I had two studentsthat came to me early in the
semester.
You know I'd already been totheir class a couple of times.
You know challenge them thatI'm going to do a weld off with
them, that I could out weld them.
I cannot.
But they don't know that.
(28:39):
They just met me.
You know, challenging that.
Well, one day I was down there,I was visiting with the
instructor, and I walked out andone of them came out to me and
told me he lost his house.
He's been living in a hotel allweekend and he's out of money
if there's anything I can do tohelp him.
And so what we did then, afterI started getting to work on him
(29:01):
you know our housing officehelping to find a place.
You know, in our campus housinghe had a brother that tracked
me down on campus and said hey,I know you're helping my brother
out.
Is there any way I can get aplace to live too?
If they didn't feel comfortablewith me, they wouldn't have came
up to me and told me theirsituation.
They would most likely wouldnot be able to stay in school.
(29:22):
Now they're in a program thatin nine months they're going to
have a certificate and they'regoing to go out and make good
money.
Think about if they didn't feelcomfortable approaching me,
where would they be today?
They wouldn't be in school andthey wouldn't be, you know, four
months closer to completing acertificate to help them make in
the mid-20s and high-20s as aliving.
(29:44):
You know, upon completion it'sabout making sure students can
feel trust in what you're doingas an institution and that's
what we try to press uponeverybody.
You may be the person that thestudent comes to and seeks some
type of help.
You know you may not have theanswers, but you know I didn't
have answers, but I immediatelygot into the right people and
(30:05):
say, hey, how can we help thestudent out?
You know how can we work with astudent and what can we do, and
you know, not judging theircircumstances, just trying to a
way to alleviate some of thosecircumstances so they can stay
in school.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
That's powerful.
That's powerful, that'spowerful.
How do you think about talentand staff management right, like
both the recruitment of themand giving the right kind of
people a response?
I have to assume that's kind oftricky just given where you are
geographically, like there'sgot to be a lot of challenges
there.
So can you speak on that a bit?
Speaker 2 (30:40):
Well, I mean, I think you know both when I was in
Arkansas and here now at TrinityValley in Texas.
You have to identify talent andyou have to help grow talent.
And, yes, you may not be ableto track from all over across
the country, but you're most ofthe time.
I found someone within theinstitution that just needs
(31:03):
nurturing and growth and aninvestment.
So we've done some small groupleadership trainings.
We brought a consultant inworking with an organization
that does some small kind ofdynamic leadership training,
because you know it's actuallycheaper to identify and
(31:24):
cultivate that talent.
And I'm very fortunate, you know, I've gone through some
structural changes, you know,and things like that, and I
fully have in place now my teamand I have some of the most
talented textbook, technicallysmart individuals you'll ever
meet in your life.
(31:44):
And when it comes to knowingthe policies, the procedures,
the practices, the history, theyknow it, and so I'm investing
in them to continue and growthem.
I put them in positions wherethey can lead and now my job is
help them navigate theleadership process, help them
(32:05):
understand, you know, thedecision-making process on some
things and how to maneuver anddeal with those stresses, you
know.
But then, while I'm allowingthem to be who they are and
their capabilities, and I'mreally it's brilliant.
I mean I have a team that isextremely brilliant.
(32:27):
Let them shine and I help justcontinue to cultivate them as
young leaders, you know, andhelp them kind of avoid
obstacles, probably mistakesI've made.
I help them avoid those and byjust giving some, you know, hey,
let's approach it this way,You're right on target In order
(32:48):
to accomplish this.
Let's do it this way, you know,and you'll build more momentum
and things of that nature.
And I think sometimes and thisis I think it relates back to
something Cultivating talent atthe community college is the
same as how people viewcommunity colleges.
(33:18):
When people have a communitycollege in their backyard, they
soon forget they have such.
We don't have anybody in ourbackyard that's smart enough or
capable enough, and we have togo out and do a big national
search to get somebody.
And actually, reality,sometimes you need to look
closer to home and say who do Ihave and what do they need to
(33:40):
make it to the next level, thenext jump?
And so I think the two thingsparallel, because I see it all
the time.
It's like oh, I didn't realizeTrinity Valley does that the
school's been here for 50, 60years.
How do you mean?
You don't know they do that,but it's been in the backyard,
(34:03):
so you just it becomes part ofthis, the scenery of their
surroundings.
You know it's in part of theenvironment and you don't
realize all the great thingshappening.
We have a tendency to do thatabout talent sometimes, that we
have a lot of amazing talentthat all it needs is a little
bit of encouragement andinfrastructure and guidance and
infrastructure and guidance andyou'll have one of the best vice
(34:26):
presidents of whateverdepartment you want to talk
about at your institution.
Speaker 1 (34:32):
That's a really brilliant parallel that you're
drawing between the two, and Ithink it also speaks to the sort
of broader mission thatinstitutions have in general.
It's not just the workforceforce, it's it's like creating
community, it's like so manysort of different things that to
me really sort of connect andare not disparate because that's
(34:53):
what our industries are askingus to do.
Speaker 2 (34:55):
Their industries are not asking us go out and recruit
people and bring them in.
Their industries are saying,look, this is what we have in
our community.
I need you to help mestrengthen them to be ready for
what I do as an industry.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
Completely, can you talk a little bit on how you're
using and leveraging data todrive your institution forward.
Speaker 2 (35:19):
There's not a number that we don't look at every day.
We're looking at enrollmenttrends, we're looking at
retention, we're looking atpersistence, we're looking at
grade distribution, we'relooking at the financials, we're
looking at predictingfinancials.
You know, uh, as we were takingon a large um, one of the
biggest issues that we face isobviously critical maintenance.
(35:40):
You know when you let things goso far that it's beyond
critical, attacking all thosethings.
So we have to look at you knowour revenue stream.
We have to look at you know theinterest we earn.
We have to look at our localtax values.
But ultimately, as aninstitution, taking all those in
account, we judge ourselves byhow our students are doing.
(36:02):
You know we are in a fundingformula state.
We are funded from the state.
We receive local allocations,but our state funding is based
on credentials.
How many students complete sometype of credential?
So we're spending a lot of timelooking at what are the things
that are tripping students up.
Do you have barrier courses?
You know we call themgatekeeper courses, but they're
(36:25):
really just flat out barriercourses.
How do they play into thatstudent's track?
If they're going to be thisdiscipline, is that the
appropriate course, say math orscience course for those
students in that discipline.
You know, looking at all thosethings down to the actual
individual completion ratewithin courses to see if we can
(36:45):
identify things that can helpstudents be successful or
provide support to students tobe successful, you know.
So, yes, data is.
I mean, you're just engrossedwith data after data and there's
so many data points that youcan look at.
You take that all in, then yousit down, you work within your
(37:12):
team and your institution andyou come to the best decision
that you can possibly make atthat moment in time, because the
data could literally changedramatically tomorrow if
something was to happen sometype of crisis, some type of
event, some type of pandemic,some type of economic recession,
whatever it could literallychange tomorrow.
So you're making the bestdecision at that point in time
(37:33):
that you think puts theinstitution on a pathway to
success and stability, knowingthat you better get ready to
pivot at any moment's notice.
And I think that affectstwo-year colleges a little bit
more, because we're soeconomically tied to the
changing economy.
Speaker 1 (37:52):
Yeah, the sense of structure really helps you to do
that.
Speaker 2 (37:55):
Where do you?
Speaker 1 (37:56):
feel the biggest pinch is the college price, I
mean with everything that'sdifferent in this space.
Speaker 2 (38:02):
You said the biggest pinch for yeah, like pain point,
something that's particularlytricky.
Really, I mean, for me it's alot of infrastructure, you know,
just like Not not taking enoughtime to put plans together to
(38:24):
maintain the facilities of yourinstitution, you know, and
making sure you have plenty.
You put plans together, fiveand 10 year plans, to maintain
the, the physical structure ofyour institution.
Yeah, I mean, that's one of thebiggest things that you know.
You know, like I said, I gotvery talented people dealing
with my students and dealingwith my programs and I got very
(38:45):
talented people in my vicepresident operation deals with
facilities.
But the thing is, facilitiesare what facilities are.
If they're old, they're old.
You know.
I mean, every single one of myroofs except one needed some
kind of touch.
Every single one of my roofsexcept one needed some kind of
touch, and the one that did notneed touch got hit by a
(39:06):
windstorm and ripped the roofoff.
Speaker 1 (39:08):
Oh no.
Speaker 2 (39:10):
So I mean it's, it's, that's one of the biggest and
I've talked to several of mycolleagues and they feel the
kind of the we call it criticalmaintenance.
You know, the infrastructureand the capital improvement
plans and stuff like that.
I think we all kind of feelthat pinch a little bit.
You know, having the facilitiesthat are appropriate for your
(39:31):
institution and most of ourinstitutions were built with
standardized kind of classroomfacilities.
Here's a box, teach a class.
Well, that doesn't translatewell to workforce type programs
where you need more open space.
You need different thickness ofthe concrete flooring to teach
for glyph and you didn't, sothat having to make sure you can
(39:52):
pivot and create spaces at yourinstitution for the changing
type of programs and and theseprograms don't always fit in a
side of a book inside of atypical square classroom.
So I think really it's kind ofsummed that up the biggest pinch
is making sure we arephysically sound as a, not
(40:16):
financially as a physicalstructure, the physical
structure of our institution.
Because if your structures donot look nice, students will not
come here Because they're goingto assume if you don't care how
you look, then you're not goingto care about me, and we can
(40:39):
have a lot of great thingshappening inside those buildings
.
You know some of the mostbrilliant instructors and staff
people, but if they're notwilling to enter that door
they'll never know it.
So you have to make sure ifyou're putting your best foot
forward as an institution whenit comes to your physical
appearance and what you have tooffer to students, and you have
the appropriate facilities tohandle the types of programs and
(41:02):
the students that you're goingafter.
Speaker 1 (41:04):
That makes a ton of sense.
That's that's the first timeI've heard that answer and I
really liked that a lot.
It's it's, it's massive and itreally sort of counts to so many
, so many different pieces thatwe've resolved.
I know we're almost at timehere but, jason, we're getting
too excited for the road ahead.
You know there's so muchhappening in this space.
We get too excited for a realtime.
You know there's so muchhappening in this space.
There's so many things we couldtalk about.
Challenges.
Speaker 2 (41:25):
Where are you personally pumped.
What's got me excited is, youknow, we're changing lives.
I mean plain and simple, I getto make a difference in people's
lives.
You know I get maybe I took myeducation a little bit for
granted.
You know I get, maybe I took myeducation a little bit for
granted, you know, because Iknew I was going to do something
and and part of that makes meenergized and fueled to make
(41:48):
sure students have opportunitiesto change their life.
You know, my wife is a firstgeneration college student that
grew up in extreme poverty.
Education changed her life.
I try to tell her I changed herlife.
Poverty, education changed herlife.
I try to tell her I changed herlife.
But education changed her life,you know.
And these stories, when you, thestudents, when you hear their
(42:10):
stories, and what difference itmakes in who they are and who
they become, that's what for me,that's what motivates me and
pushes me forward to do thethings that we do and continue
to push my people and, you know,impress upon them.
Let's keep moving.
I don't care if we go, if wemake mistakes, as long as we're
(42:33):
moving forward.
You know I'm more of let's go100 miles an hour.
If we make a mistake, we'llcorrect it and keep on moving,
versus never making a decisionbecause you're too scared to
make a mistake.
And keep on moving versus nevermaking a decision because
you're too scared to make amistake.
Well, our students don't havethe luxury just to set idle and
ensure it's going to be 100%perfect.
You know, a lot of theirbackgrounds comes from life of
having obstacles and mistakes,you know, pressed upon them.
(42:55):
So we have to take part of thatoff their shoulders and carry
it on our shoulders and to helpthem move forward.
I mean, I'm excited about thefuture of education, I think as
soon as we get and I do thinkwe're in a cultural little trend
where we're dogging educationright now I do.
I think it kind of goes ups anddowns and I think we're just at
(43:19):
this point where we're an easytarget, probably because we
deserve it.
You know, when you postsingle-digit graduation rates
and high debt and you don't givepeople a degree that gets them
a job and things like that, well, you deserve it.
You flat out deserve it, yourjob.
That's why I don't mind ourfunding formula.
(43:39):
Our job is to get the studentsome type of credential or
degree, you know, or some typeof training.
Maybe they're only going to bewith us for six weeks because
they got a new job at Industry Aand Industry A has asked us to
do this type of training.
Well, we're impacting thatstudent's life, you know, and
(43:59):
and so we, we have to earn ourvalue again.
We can't just sit down andcomplain and say you don't
respect me.
Well, what have we done todeserve that respect?
You know, we got to go outthere and work and show that
students.
Their trajectory does changebecause of our influence.
Their future has been impactedand their family's future has
(44:21):
been impacted because of therole we play in their lives.
So I think, as we can createmore attention you know I'm
speaking from the two-yearcolleges, because that's where
I've been If we can create morepositive attention to two-year
colleges and create agroundswell of support among our
local school districts and thevalue that we have and the
(44:44):
opportunities that we have, thenI think the things that we want
to happen for us and theirnational recognition and the
greater financial support willcome.
Speaker 1 (44:57):
Incredibly well said.
I think that's a beautifulplace to end.
Thank you, jason, I appreciateyou.
I appreciate you.
I appreciate it.
I think that's a beautifulplace to end.
Thank you, jason, I appreciateyou I appreciate you, I
appreciate it.
Enjoy this, that was awesomeman, you, you, you nailed it.
I love those talking points.
There's so many good.
I'm excited to speak to Jason Morrison here.
Jason welcome.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Thank you, sir, looking forward to it,
appreciate you having me on.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Well, it's great, it's been great to read a little
bit about you and hear moreabout your background, but maybe
, just as a starting place, ifyou could just sort of give a
quick snapshot into who you areand the work you do who you are
and the work you do, and then Iwould love to know just some of
the subtle differences in termsof leading Trinity Valley versus
(00:29):
the work that you did at aplace like Southern Arkansas
University, and how those, thosetwo really differ.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Okay, well, as far as my background, I've been in
higher education for 20 plusyears now.
I've been at the president'slevel for eight years now.
I taught.
I was a classroom instructorfor about 11 years of my career
before I went intoadministration.
I had a very quick processthrough some of the ranks.
(01:01):
I spent two years as a dean ofarts and sciences at Western
Oklahoma State.
Then I moved to a largertwo-year college system which
covered basically the geographicarea of the state of
Connecticut in central Nebraska,where I was the dean of all the
academic education on all theircampuses and sites sites.
(01:26):
I was there for 11 monthsbefore I was appointed to my
first vice president's job atCarl Albert State College in
Oklahoma, and I was a VP foracademics for two and a half
years before I received my firstappointment as chancellor
president at Southern ArkansasUniversity of Tech, and after
six and a half years there, Imade the move to the great state
of Texas and took over aspresident at Trinity Valley
(01:48):
Community College, where I'mover a year and a half in now at
Trinity Valley.
As far as the differencesbetween the two schools, at the
heart of it, there is nodifference At the heart.
You're serving students At SAUTech.
We served a very diversepopulation of students, very
economically disadvantagedpopulation, while we sat in the
(02:11):
backyard of a major defensesector I mean most people
wouldn't realize in Camden,arkansas, you had the likes of
Lockheed, aerojet, raytheon, allthese billion-dollar defense
companies in one of the poorestareas in the state and so you
really had to fight the battleof enfranchising individuals to
(02:34):
see the value of education andthe importance of education,
while working with the demandsof the defense industries to
provide training, to provide anemployment base.
But you can't put the cartbefore the horse.
You got to get the student, thepotential student, to see the
importance of education and howit's going to translate into a
(02:55):
career.
So there's no difference in themission of what we do as an
institution, no matter if it'sat Southern Arkansas University
Tech, which was a small,extremely rural-based
institution, no matter if it'sat Southern Arkansas University
Tech, which was a small,extremely rural-based
institution, or Trinity Valley,which is a larger institution.
And of course in the state ofTexas it'd be a small,
medium-sized institution, but inArkansas it would be a large
(03:17):
institution.
But you're still serving firstgeneration students.
You're still serving studentsthat are not necessarily
embracing the understanding ofthe importance of education.
You know there's not a familymember that can kind of instill
the value of education andimportance of education.
(03:38):
That, with the nationaldistrust with education that
we're seeing take hold of thelandscape, which honestly has
nothing to do with us astwo-year colleges.
It's all because your largeflagship research institutions
and the amount of they carrythemselves, that trickle down to
(03:59):
us who are kind of boots on theground, roll up your sleeves.
I kind of consider my style asmore of a blue collar style of
leadership.
There's no position that'sabove anybody else.
If the trash needs to be takenout, the trash gets taken out,
it doesn't matter who does it.
You know if the campus needs tobe picked up and clean, we're
all going to pitch in and dothat and I think that's helped
(04:23):
me.
You know, from SAU Tech toTrinity Valley, that kind of the
blue-collar mindset of you.
Know, let's go to work.
I've talked to colleagues andthey talk about investitude and
you know getting installed as apresident and I've never had a
celebration like that.
Because I don't desire acelebration like that, tell me
where to clock in and let's goto work our celebration like
(04:45):
that.
Tell me where to clock in atand let's go to work.
You know, let's clock in, let'sdo the work that's needed,
because our students are notthat concerned with those things
Our students want to know.
Do you care?
What are you going to do?
What is this education, what isthis training going to do?
To help me get out of theposition that I'm in and help me
lift myself out, liftthemselves up into a new
(05:07):
position in life and havestability.
That's all they're looking for.
And so a lot of the stuff thatsurrounds higher education is
just what it is.
It surrounds higher education.
It's not what it's at the coreof it, and I think that's true
no matter what institutionyou're at is.
(05:27):
If you ever lose sight ofwhat's your core, and that's
your students, then you're introuble.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
So true, so true.
That's really well said.
I appreciate the blue collarmindset and just rolling up your
sleeves and getting to work,you know, down to the ceremonies
and all of the individualthings where you know you're all
dressed like harry potter andit's, it's just it's.
It seems so unnecessary, justgiven sort of what the end?
You know what the end task is.
(05:53):
So so I love that.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
That focus um well, I'll give you an example.
We had graduation last fridayand you know and you you do that
let's celebrate the fall of2024, commencement.
And I proceeded to tell themlet's not look at it as a
commencement, let's look at itas a party, let's look at it as
a celebration.
So if you're up in the standsand your child walks across the
(06:17):
stage, yell as loud as you wantto yell.
I think we had some cowbells inthere, we had some, I mean, we
had all sorts of stuff.
Because for that child that'swalking across the stage, the
first person in their family,and let's say they're getting a
nursing degree, you know they'regoing to be an RN.
They're walking across thatstage.
You know, for the first time,first member of their family.
(06:39):
Think about how quickly theirlife changed.
Maybe they went from kind ofbelow the poverty line as a
member of their family to nowmaking what an RN can command in
the job sector.
Think about that lifetransformational moment.
So we don't need the littlegolf clap, you know.
Congratulations, my gosh.
(07:00):
I know those parents are proudof their child because a nursing
program is one of the toughestprograms you know at any college
and they made it through.
Well, that's true for all theseprograms.
You know a student becomes awelder or a student that's on
their way to transfer and becomea teacher.
They're taking the steps toreach success.
You know the sacrifices, theurgency building the character.
(07:21):
You know some things.
I covered in my speech lastFriday that they're doing these
things in order to reach success.
You know, and other people,don't define yourself success.
You define your successinstitution by these
publications out there.
What makes us a successfulleader?
Because you participate in someinstitute or some leadership
(07:49):
academy or whatever.
We're always too busy lettingsomeone else define who we are
versus defining who we are.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
Well said.
Well said, and I mean theeconomic impact of that degree
is generational right.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
Yes, I mean it changes the whole landscape for
that family.
Somebody's done it.
Now you can be the next.
Once the first person's done it, the path is easier, it's more
understandable.
You know the barriers, you knowthe things that you have to
navigate it just.
But not only does it changethat one person, but you change
that whole family and thatfamily helps change another
(08:25):
family and the other family andbefore you know it you change
the whole community and youcontradict what I always tell
people or you defeat what Ialways tell people.
I always tell people culturedefeats intellect.
But once you start making thechange and you start getting one
person to make a difference andthat may trickle down to
another person pretty soon youchange the culture which
(08:48):
redefines the intellect of thatcommunity.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
So true, so true.
What are some of the challengesthat you all have when it comes
to, like, enrollment andretention?
Right, because there's so manycomplicated factors that you're
dealing with.
There's so many complicatedfactors that you're dealing with
, right.
You've got first-gen studentsthat don't have resources to you
know to do so many differentthings.
You've got so many differentemployers that have big needs,
(09:13):
like how do you think aboutsquaring the circle on all these
pieces but, at the same time,keeping yourself fiscally viable
and delivering on that mission?
Speaker 2 (09:24):
Fortunately for us, the state of Texas really
supports as institutions ofhigher education.
There's a great commitment.
When you're in the eighthlargest economy in the world as
a state, there's going to be avalue to education and training,
and so I think that's one ofthe key things, and one of the
things that I think thatintrigued me to make the move to
(09:46):
Trinity Valley is because thereis a commitment.
Now there's also a lot ofcompeting interests and that's
where the struggle as far asenrollment and things like that.
You know we're pressing a lotof dual credit, concurrent
education among students whilethey're in high school.
You know, even starting themout as early as a freshman a
freshman in high school.
(10:07):
So you got 14-year-olds tryingto tell them here's your track,
they're 14.
How many of us changed our majorin college?
You know I was all set to go tolaw school, but here I am in
higher education now.
You know all because someoneasked me if I wanted to teach,
you know, us government class.
You know, while I was a gradstudent.
You know people change, but wehave this economic need to
(10:32):
produce a workforce and so wejust keep going lower and lower.
I think it's important that,yes, we give information to
those students at those levels,but we also be patient with
those students at those levelsbecause they're still young
people trying to make a decisionon what their future holds and
they also have competinginterests within their family
(10:53):
and family responsibility andfamily expectations.
And so now we're here, whileyou're doing this, choose a
degree.
So I think we have to balancethat out as a competing interest
and create a greaterunderstanding of the pathways
and options for students.
You know and realize, even atthat age, when they're a
freshman and sophomore in highschool, there's still brain
(11:16):
development and kind of thatdevelopment of the emotional
state, along with the kind ofintellectual state of a person.
That's still taking place andthe gaps.
So we've got to be carefulbecause I think in a few years
we may be seeing articles aboutburnout because of how we
(11:37):
approached it.
You know, give us 10 years andwe'll have someone write a
publication on it and they'll belike, oh, that might have been
too aggressive, but you alsodo've been too aggressive, but
you also do need to beaggressive.
It's trying to find that happymedium.
So we're looking at the pressureof dual credit in our school
(11:58):
systems and more kids being putinto dual credit and just taking
some type of classes.
And then you got the competinginterests of the four-year
universities.
As enrollment numbers becometighter, they're now dipping
down and saying we're taking allstudents.
Covid gave us the period inwhich everybody eliminated
(12:19):
entrance requirements.
Well, did you do that becauseyou truly care about the student
?
I mean, I don't think I have tosay any more than that.
Did you do that because youtruly care about the student?
I mean, I think that's a Idon't think I have to say any
more than that.
Did you really eliminate allenrollment type requirements
because you cared about thestudent or did you care about a
number?
And so, as we see thatcompetition for that it's where
(12:42):
are we putting what's right forthe student, making sure they're
in a position to be successfuland they have an opportunity to
receive the support that theyneed, because a lot of these
students are going to need,because of the aftermath of
COVID and all that, need theextra student support services,
need the extra student supportservices.
You know our advocacy center,which houses our food pantry and
clothing pantry and all that isat record use, our mental
(13:05):
health services, record use.
You know just all these thingsthat you're seeing an increase
in need and what environment isgoing to be more successful.
So we got four year.
You know, competition.
We got dual credit competition.
It's not competition, I wouldjust say kind of muddying all
the waters.
(13:26):
And here, at the two year level,we still had to maintain a
focus of being the place whereeverybody has an opportunity, an
equal opportunity to besuccessful.
An equal opportunity to besuccessful.
You know that we don't matterif you come with low economic
status.
We don't matter if you comewith first generational status,
we don't come.
It doesn't matter what youbring with you.
(13:48):
We have to figure out what willhelp you be successful while
you're here.
And so our instructors know that, our staff knows that, and so
it's a more hands on approachand I think it's just it's going
to, as we see the increase inneed of all these services, it's
just going to be more chaoticon how to connect these services
(14:12):
with students, while we haveall these competing interests
saying you need to hear, youneed to start here, you need to
go here.
You know, at the end of the daywe need to ask ourselves what's
best for that student.
You know, before we putstudents in concurrent classes.
Is that right for that student,you know?
Is it too soon or is it theright time?
(14:34):
Because you know every studentis different as an individual
and we got to make sure we don'tcreate distress for that
student in the name of trying tohelp that student.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
Because, to your point, you know, there's so much
competing information, they'rebeing bombarded with so much,
and you've got private collegesand institutions, four-year
places, that are trying to hitenrollment goals, so they're
marketing harder.
You know, you have, I think,high school guidance counselors
in high schools that are tryingto just get students into
(15:09):
college more than sort ofnecessarily sort of steering
them in different directions.
Everyone's got their own sortof incentives.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
Get them accepted not necessarily the right fit.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
Right, exactly Right.
So the incentive structure is alittle bit tough and I can
imagine it puts you in a reallytricky position because it's
like you're trying to have thesesort of early and often touch
points that are sort oforganically meet so people know
who you are and the valueproposition that you're bringing
.
(15:39):
But you're kind of trying to besignal, not noise, right.
Like you know, we have thissuper valuable thing that is a
fit and you know, but there's somany competing inferences,
there's so much informationthat's really sort of bombarding
students.
So it's a really tough place toreally sort of mitigate and
figure out how do you do thiseffectively and what's the
dosing of messaging and thetiming and the why and when are
(16:03):
you hitting with them?
It's such a tricky thing tocircle.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
How do you truly highlight your value, because
there's so many competinginterests that we're talking
about, how do you get your lightto shine bright that attracts
the interest of students?
Because, let's be honest, Imean, we know we still live,
even with all the workforceinitiatives and the drive
towards workforce type programs,you know, shorter term programs
(16:25):
we still know we live in a fouryear or die kind of educational
sector where we press the valueof four year education and
we're not discounting thatbecause I want my students and I
have four year degrees, youknow I have.
I have four year degrees, youknow I have.
(16:47):
I have a bachelor's in nursing.
We're in the process of gettinga bachelor's in elementary
education.
So I understand truly the valueof that.
My thing is, how do we get ourlight to capture the attention
of the student that most needsit?
Yeah, because, being a studentthat probably should have
started off at a two-yearcollege, I ran off through the
four-year.
You know scholarships,everything didn't have the
(17:09):
social maturity and the balanceto handle that.
So let's say it wasn't verysuccessful that first year, you
know.
But I had parents that saidyou're going to do this, you're
going to figure it out, and noteverybody has that.
So my goal and that's what Itell my people is we got to make
our light shine bright sopeople know we're here and we're
(17:31):
an opportunity and we're goingto wrap our arms around them to
be successful.
They may choose to go somewhereelse.
That's fine.
We'll help you in that processtoo, because we know with how
fluctuating the population is inhigher education, you know a
lot of students are attendingtwo to three schools.
You know, in their educationalcareer we can still be there for
(17:52):
them when they need us and wesee a lot of kids return, you
know, back from the four-year toenroll at the two-year level
and we can create a pathway forthem to be successful.
You know, hopefully we get thembefore they have too much
academic damage or evenfinancial aid damage done to
their record.
But we work to repair that, youknow, and work with them on
(18:15):
those things.
It's just we got to.
I guess the biggest frustratingpoint for me is when we say we
value education, that does meantwo-year colleges and I feel
like sometimes two-year collegesget overshadowed.
And when we say highereducation, we're only talking
about the large universities,and I see this and I've fought
(18:40):
this in multiple differentstates.
When people say, well, my kidsdon't need to go to college,
they just need to go to you, I'mlike I am a college, we are a
college, we are a highereducation institution.
We're still fighting that kindof mindset.
You know at least that's whatI've experienced, being my
(19:04):
career has mostly been in ruraltype states is this mindset that
somehow college, communitycollege, is not higher education
.
It is absolutely highereducation.
You get a one year degree, atwo year degree.
Or if I train you how to workon a, operate a forklift, that's
higher education.
I wish there was just a magicpotion that would make people
(19:31):
understand that junior colleges,two-year colleges, community
colleges, technical institutesare higher education.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
Completely.
It's absolutely mind bogglingand I'm a pretty big data guy,
so I think about it in terms ofthe numbers, in terms of, like
the, you know, the dollars inand dollars out, and when it
comes to dollars in, dollars out, like nobody's beating
community college, I mean thisis like it's not close, it's not
a race.
(20:03):
We're basically giving it away.
It's crazy, I mean it'sabsolutely insane.
And why it continues to sort ofbe undervalued in terms of sort
of national discourse, or whereyou have publications really
sort of focusing, or when peopleare even sort of
conceptualizing or talking aboutcollege, like why this isn't
(20:24):
necessarily referenced in likethe same way is it's really
strange and doesn't sort offully make sense, especially
when you look at just numbers ofhow many people go, the
outcomes they get, like all ofthe things that you, you know,
know so intimately well.
So it is a mind-boggling thingto wrap your mind around.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
And part of it's our fault.
We don't do a well enough jobin telling our story and I think
you've seen over the lastprobably handful of years,
you've seen community collegesstart doing a better job of
telling the story of theirstudents and I think that's
where we've struggled is,sometimes you have to brag a
little bit.
You have to brag about whatyou're doing and how you're
(21:07):
doing and the success of yourstudents, and that also through
your foundations.
You know, you look at, you knowthe foundations of large
institutions and foundations oftwo-year colleges getting more
mature in your foundations,because that helps support your
students while they go to schooland it helps tell your story.
So I think there is some of itthat's self-inflicted, because
(21:28):
we've always just done the job.
You know that, hey, as long aswe did the job and we got the
work done and they got wherethey need to go, we're good,
need to go, we're good.
But we're in a world wheremarketing and media matters and
(21:52):
especially in the world ofgenerating attention.
We have to tell our stories.
We have to be out there toshare the real value that that
student received from yourinstitution and I think, as the
coming years you're going to seethis just continue to increase
and explode where two-yearcolleges are going to be, I mean
on the same kind of multimediaplatforms as large institutions
(22:14):
and stuff.
As far as selling and retainingthe value of what the students
are obtaining or the value thatthe students receiving from your
institution, that's such animportant point and I'm glad you
went there because I thinkwe've circled this question a
little bit.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
But something that I hear all the time from
particularly college presidents,is this positioning thing and
this massive positioningchallenge and I think a lot of
people talk about.
You've already alluded to somany of these dynamics, which is
like the people talk about howhard it is to compete with peers
and with other communitycolleges or you know the realm
(22:56):
of competition, like you'vetalked about, it's so much
broader.
You're not just competingagainst community colleges,
you're competing againstfour-year colleges.
You're competing againstout-of-state colleges.
You're also competing againstthis like anti-college narrative
, right and like not going atall right and like amazing jobs
in your part of the country thatdon't require like that, you
(23:17):
know that degree or thatrequires some some like.
So there's all these sort ofcompeting factors.
There's influencers that are ontwitter that are trying to do,
how to do this micro thing.
Um, so it's so, it's massive.
Like, how do you think aboutthat positioning piece, right
when it comes to telling yourstory or selling outcomes or or
signaling to, like the rightkind of student, the value that
(23:40):
you have?
How do you think aboutpackaging that in a way that is
like renaissance to so manykinds of populations?
Because for you all, it's likeyou're not just serving that
traditional, you have a prettybroad scope of who you're
serving.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
Oh yeah, we have from traditional students, we have
to non-traditional and, you know, being a school that is very
heavy in athletics, we have thestudent athlete.
You know we have extremelyhighly successful programs,
probably as an institution, oneof the top junior colleges in
the country when it comes to topof bottom programs.
(24:14):
You know we have a cheer squadthat's internationally known
mainly because of Netflix.
That's internationally knownmainly because of Netflix.
You know we have an enormousbrand, but we are now getting to
the point where we're actuallyfocusing the selling of that
brand.
Here you go, this is TrinityValley.
We have this type of student,this type of student.
(24:35):
We have an agri program thatdoes AI research.
That's out of this world and,you think, out of your colleges,
and they're geneticallycreating, you know, show cattle
and and you know, and maximizingtheir program with the show
beef beef show team.
You, I mean you look at allthese different.
There's an opportunity, fromthe band to the choir, to
(24:58):
student government.
Our student government has won19 state titles.
What students want is a place,because a lot of these students
have missed out on so much overthe last few years.
They want a place to helpinfluence and shape their
(25:18):
identity.
So what we have to do as aninstitution and I always tell my
people all the time, if wecreate our standards, we don't
have to worry about anybodyelse's standards.
I don't see myself incompetition with the four-year
or other two years or anythinglike that.
We're going to uphold ourselvesto our standards, our
commitment to the student, andwe're going to instill that in
(25:39):
everything we do.
If we do those things, thestudents will see that and
they'll want to be a part ofthat because they'll see
themselves somewhere atinstitution Maybe it's
performing in a play one night,maybe it's being tossed up in
the air as a member of the cheersquad or playing football or
playing in the band or whateverit may be is giving students a
(26:02):
place to see themselves, becausethey've missed out on so much
of that in their earlyespecially the traditionally
students their early life thatthey just want something and
anything about non-traditionalstudents.
Many of those kind of gave upthose things because of life
happenings at early age and nowthey're returning to school.
(26:23):
Why can't they be part of thatsame experience?
You know, I always talk topeople about selling the
importance and the value of acollege experience, you know,
and the things that students arewanting to be a part of and
committed to and seeingthemselves in.
It is important and making surethat we support those things.
(26:45):
You know, giving that studenttheir chance first time to fly
somewhere and participate in aparade you know, on the East
Coast, you know, and you know,and something they've never been
able to do in their life, orwhatever experience we can
provide to a student, you know,shapes them as a person, but
(27:05):
also shapes how they see highereducation.
These students will be some ofour best advocates in the coming
years because they'll be ableto share their stories with
other students and students willbe like I didn't realize you
could do that at a two-yearcollege.
And I think the problem is weneed it to happen right now.
(27:26):
The problem is the impact isnot going to happen for a number
of years because we've got tocontinue to build that tidal
wave of momentum of sharing thatwonderful experience at our
institution.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
I love what you said around experience and place.
I think that's really powerfuland something that I don't think
I've seen community collegesnecessarily sort of lean into,
especially ones like yours thathave such a broad array of
offerings and studentexperiences and things that are
just like hyper-competitive.
With four years at a fractionof the price, Like what a great
(28:02):
differentiator.
I'm like, hey, you haven't hadthis amazing thing because of
all the weirdness in our world.
We have it.
We have it at a massivediscount.
We have this incredible sort ofvalue.
Find yourself event space place.
I love the lean into thatexperience piece.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
We want them to be at the heart of it.
We want them to have thatinteraction and that comfort
with everybody on campus.
You know I had two studentsthat came to me early in the
semester.
You know I'd already been totheir class a couple of times.
You know challenge them thatI'm going to do a weld off with
them, that I could out weld them.
I cannot.
But they don't know that.
(28:39):
They just met me.
You know, challenging that.
Well, one day I was down there,I was visiting with the
instructor, and I walked out andone of them came out to me and
told me he lost his house.
He's been living in a hotel allweekend and he's out of money
if there's anything I can do tohelp him.
And so what we did then, afterI started getting to work on him
(29:01):
you know our housing officehelping to find a place.
You know, in our campus housinghe had a brother that tracked
me down on campus and said hey,I know you're helping my brother
out.
Is there any way I can get aplace to live too?
If they didn't feel comfortablewith me, they wouldn't have came
up to me and told me theirsituation.
They would most likely wouldnot be able to stay in school.
(29:22):
Now they're in a program thatin nine months they're going to
have a certificate and they'regoing to go out and make good
money.
Think about if they didn't feelcomfortable approaching me,
where would they be today?
They wouldn't be in school andthey wouldn't be, you know, four
months closer to completing acertificate to help them make in
the mid-20s and high-20s as aliving.
(29:44):
You know, upon completion it'sabout making sure students can
feel trust in what you're doingas an institution and that's
what we try to press uponeverybody.
You may be the person that thestudent comes to and seeks some
type of help.
You know you may not have theanswers, but you know I didn't
have answers, but I immediatelygot into the right people and
(30:05):
say, hey, how can we help thestudent out?
You know how can we work with astudent and what can we do, and
you know, not judging theircircumstances, just trying to a
way to alleviate some of thosecircumstances so they can stay
in school.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
That's powerful.
That's powerful, that'spowerful.
How do you think about talentand staff management right, like
both the recruitment of themand giving the right kind of
people a response?
I have to assume that's kind oftricky just given where you are
geographically, like there'sgot to be a lot of challenges
there.
So can you speak on that a bit?
Speaker 2 (30:40):
Well, I mean, I think you know both when I was in
Arkansas and here now at TrinityValley in Texas.
You have to identify talent andyou have to help grow talent.
And, yes, you may not be ableto track from all over across
the country, but you're most ofthe time.
I found someone within theinstitution that just needs
(31:03):
nurturing and growth and aninvestment.
So we've done some small groupleadership trainings.
We brought a consultant inworking with an organization
that does some small kind ofdynamic leadership training,
because you know it's actuallycheaper to identify and
(31:24):
cultivate that talent.
And I'm very fortunate, you know, I've gone through some
structural changes, you know,and things like that, and I
fully have in place now my teamand I have some of the most
talented textbook, technicallysmart individuals you'll ever
meet in your life.
(31:44):
And when it comes to knowingthe policies, the procedures,
the practices, the history, theyknow it, and so I'm investing
in them to continue and growthem.
I put them in positions wherethey can lead and now my job is
help them navigate theleadership process, help them
(32:05):
understand, you know, thedecision-making process on some
things and how to maneuver anddeal with those stresses, you
know.
But then, while I'm allowingthem to be who they are and
their capabilities, and I'mreally it's brilliant.
I mean I have a team that isextremely brilliant.
(32:27):
Let them shine and I help justcontinue to cultivate them as
young leaders, you know, andhelp them kind of avoid
obstacles, probably mistakesI've made.
I help them avoid those and byjust giving some, you know, hey,
let's approach it this way,You're right on target In order
(32:48):
to accomplish this.
Let's do it this way, you know,and you'll build more momentum
and things of that nature.
And I think sometimes and thisis I think it relates back to
something Cultivating talent atthe community college is the
same as how people viewcommunity colleges.
(33:18):
When people have a communitycollege in their backyard, they
soon forget they have such.
We don't have anybody in ourbackyard that's smart enough or
capable enough, and we have togo out and do a big national
search to get somebody.
And actually, reality,sometimes you need to look
closer to home and say who do Ihave and what do they need to
(33:40):
make it to the next level, thenext jump?
And so I think the two thingsparallel, because I see it all
the time.
It's like oh, I didn't realizeTrinity Valley does that the
school's been here for 50, 60years.
How do you mean?
You don't know they do that,but it's been in the backyard,
(34:03):
so you just it becomes part ofthis, the scenery of their
surroundings.
You know it's in part of theenvironment and you don't
realize all the great thingshappening.
We have a tendency to do thatabout talent sometimes, that we
have a lot of amazing talentthat all it needs is a little
bit of encouragement andinfrastructure and guidance and
infrastructure and guidance andyou'll have one of the best vice
(34:26):
presidents of whateverdepartment you want to talk
about at your institution.
Speaker 1 (34:32):
That's a really brilliant parallel that you're
drawing between the two, and Ithink it also speaks to the sort
of broader mission thatinstitutions have in general.
It's not just the workforceforce, it's it's like creating
community, it's like so manysort of different things that to
me really sort of connect andare not disparate because that's
(34:53):
what our industries are askingus to do.
Speaker 2 (34:55):
Their industries are not asking us go out and recruit
people and bring them in.
Their industries are saying,look, this is what we have in
our community.
I need you to help mestrengthen them to be ready for
what I do as an industry.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
Completely, can you talk a little bit on how you're
using and leveraging data todrive your institution forward.
Speaker 2 (35:19):
There's not a number that we don't look at every day.
We're looking at enrollmenttrends, we're looking at
retention, we're looking atpersistence, we're looking at
grade distribution, we'relooking at the financials, we're
looking at predictingfinancials.
You know, uh, as we were takingon a large um, one of the
biggest issues that we face isobviously critical maintenance.
(35:40):
You know when you let things goso far that it's beyond
critical, attacking all thosethings.
So we have to look at you knowour revenue stream.
We have to look at you know theinterest we earn.
We have to look at our localtax values.
But ultimately, as aninstitution, taking all those in
account, we judge ourselves byhow our students are doing.
(36:02):
You know we are in a fundingformula state.
We are funded from the state.
We receive local allocations,but our state funding is based
on credentials.
How many students complete sometype of credential?
So we're spending a lot of timelooking at what are the things
that are tripping students up.
Do you have barrier courses?
You know we call themgatekeeper courses, but they're
(36:25):
really just flat out barriercourses.
How do they play into thatstudent's track?
If they're going to be thisdiscipline, is that the
appropriate course, say math orscience course for those
students in that discipline.
You know, looking at all thosethings down to the actual
individual completion ratewithin courses to see if we can
(36:45):
identify things that can helpstudents be successful or
provide support to students tobe successful, you know.
So, yes, data is.
I mean, you're just engrossedwith data after data and there's
so many data points that youcan look at.
You take that all in, then yousit down, you work within your
(37:12):
team and your institution andyou come to the best decision
that you can possibly make atthat moment in time, because the
data could literally changedramatically tomorrow if
something was to happen sometype of crisis, some type of
event, some type of pandemic,some type of economic recession,
whatever it could literallychange tomorrow.
So you're making the bestdecision at that point in time
(37:33):
that you think puts theinstitution on a pathway to
success and stability, knowingthat you better get ready to
pivot at any moment's notice.
And I think that affectstwo-year colleges a little bit
more, because we're soeconomically tied to the
changing economy.
Speaker 1 (37:52):
Yeah, the sense of structure really helps you to do
that.
Speaker 2 (37:55):
Where do you?
Speaker 1 (37:56):
feel the biggest pinch is the college price, I
mean with everything that'sdifferent in this space.
Speaker 2 (38:02):
You said the biggest pinch for yeah, like pain point,
something that's particularlytricky.
Really, I mean, for me it's alot of infrastructure, you know,
just like Not not taking enoughtime to put plans together to
(38:24):
maintain the facilities of yourinstitution, you know, and
making sure you have plenty.
You put plans together, fiveand 10 year plans, to maintain
the, the physical structure ofyour institution.
Yeah, I mean, that's one of thebiggest things that you know.
You know, like I said, I gotvery talented people dealing
with my students and dealingwith my programs and I got very
(38:45):
talented people in my vicepresident operation deals with
facilities.
But the thing is, facilitiesare what facilities are.
If they're old, they're old.
You know.
I mean, every single one of myroofs except one needed some
kind of touch.
Every single one of my roofsexcept one needed some kind of
touch, and the one that did notneed touch got hit by a
(39:06):
windstorm and ripped the roofoff.
Speaker 1 (39:08):
Oh no.
Speaker 2 (39:10):
So I mean it's, it's, that's one of the biggest and
I've talked to several of mycolleagues and they feel the
kind of the we call it criticalmaintenance.
You know, the infrastructureand the capital improvement
plans and stuff like that.
I think we all kind of feelthat pinch a little bit.
You know, having the facilitiesthat are appropriate for your
(39:31):
institution and most of ourinstitutions were built with
standardized kind of classroomfacilities.
Here's a box, teach a class.
Well, that doesn't translatewell to workforce type programs
where you need more open space.
You need different thickness ofthe concrete flooring to teach
for glyph and you didn't, sothat having to make sure you can
(39:52):
pivot and create spaces at yourinstitution for the changing
type of programs and and theseprograms don't always fit in a
side of a book inside of atypical square classroom.
So I think really it's kind ofsummed that up the biggest pinch
is making sure we arephysically sound as a, not
(40:16):
financially as a physicalstructure, the physical
structure of our institution.
Because if your structures donot look nice, students will not
come here Because they're goingto assume if you don't care how
you look, then you're not goingto care about me, and we can
(40:39):
have a lot of great thingshappening inside those buildings
.
You know some of the mostbrilliant instructors and staff
people, but if they're notwilling to enter that door
they'll never know it.
So you have to make sure ifyou're putting your best foot
forward as an institution whenit comes to your physical
appearance and what you have tooffer to students, and you have
the appropriate facilities tohandle the types of programs and
(41:02):
the students that you're goingafter.
Speaker 1 (41:04):
That makes a ton of sense.
That's that's the first timeI've heard that answer and I
really liked that a lot.
It's it's, it's massive and itreally sort of counts to so many
, so many different pieces thatwe've resolved.
I know we're almost at timehere but, jason, we're getting
too excited for the road ahead.
You know there's so muchhappening in this space.
We get too excited for a realtime.
You know there's so muchhappening in this space.
There's so many things we couldtalk about.
Challenges.
Speaker 2 (41:25):
Where are you personally pumped.
What's got me excited is, youknow, we're changing lives.
I mean plain and simple, I getto make a difference in people's
lives.
You know I get maybe I took myeducation a little bit for
granted.
You know I get, maybe I took myeducation a little bit for
granted, you know, because Iknew I was going to do something
and and part of that makes meenergized and fueled to make
(41:48):
sure students have opportunitiesto change their life.
You know, my wife is a firstgeneration college student that
grew up in extreme poverty.
Education changed her life.
I try to tell her I changed herlife.
Poverty, education changed herlife.
I try to tell her I changed herlife.
But education changed her life,you know.
And these stories, when you, thestudents, when you hear their
(42:10):
stories, and what difference itmakes in who they are and who
they become, that's what for me,that's what motivates me and
pushes me forward to do thethings that we do and continue
to push my people and, you know,impress upon them.
Let's keep moving.
I don't care if we go, if wemake mistakes, as long as we're
(42:33):
moving forward.
You know I'm more of let's go100 miles an hour.
If we make a mistake, we'llcorrect it and keep on moving,
versus never making a decisionbecause you're too scared to
make a mistake.
And keep on moving versus nevermaking a decision because
you're too scared to make amistake.
Well, our students don't havethe luxury just to set idle and
ensure it's going to be 100%perfect.
You know, a lot of theirbackgrounds comes from life of
having obstacles and mistakes,you know, pressed upon them.
(42:55):
So we have to take part of thatoff their shoulders and carry
it on our shoulders and to helpthem move forward.
I mean, I'm excited about thefuture of education, I think as
soon as we get and I do thinkwe're in a cultural little trend
where we're dogging educationright now I do.
I think it kind of goes ups anddowns and I think we're just at
(43:19):
this point where we're an easytarget, probably because we
deserve it.
You know, when you postsingle-digit graduation rates
and high debt and you don't givepeople a degree that gets them
a job and things like that, well, you deserve it.
You flat out deserve it, yourjob.
That's why I don't mind ourfunding formula.
(43:39):
Our job is to get the studentsome type of credential or
degree, you know, or some typeof training.
Maybe they're only going to bewith us for six weeks because
they got a new job at Industry Aand Industry A has asked us to
do this type of training.
Well, we're impacting thatstudent's life, you know, and
(43:59):
and so we, we have to earn ourvalue again.
We can't just sit down andcomplain and say you don't
respect me.
Well, what have we done todeserve that respect?
You know, we got to go outthere and work and show that
students.
Their trajectory does changebecause of our influence.
Their future has been impactedand their family's future has
(44:21):
been impacted because of therole we play in their lives.
So I think, as we can createmore attention you know I'm
speaking from the two-yearcolleges, because that's where
I've been If we can create morepositive attention to two-year
colleges and create agroundswell of support among our
local school districts and thevalue that we have and the
(44:44):
opportunities that we have, thenI think the things that we want
to happen for us and theirnational recognition and the
greater financial support willcome.
Speaker 1 (44:57):
Incredibly well said.
I think that's a beautifulplace to end.
Thank you, jason, I appreciateyou.
I appreciate you.
I appreciate it.
I think that's a beautifulplace to end.
Thank you, jason, I appreciateyou I appreciate you, I
appreciate it.
Enjoy this, that was awesomeman, you, you, you nailed it.
I love those talking points.
There's so many good.
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