December 16, 2024 • 39 mins
What does it take to transform a career from academia into leadership? Find inspiration in the journey of our guest, a leader in higher education who transitioned from a faculty role at the University of Northern Colorado to the presidency at St. Cloud State. Discover their passion for teaching and research in aging and gerontology, which evolved into a leadership role aimed at enhancing the academic environment for faculty, students, and staff. Through systems thinking and community engagement, they illustrate the lessons learned along the way, including the importance of building relationships and understanding institutional dynamics.
As we navigate the challenges of transitioning to Pacific Northwest University of Health Sciences, our guest shares insights on adapting leadership skills to meet institutional needs. From handling the competitive landscape in higher education to emphasizing a holistic approach that goes beyond tangible benefits, the conversation sheds light on how institutions can thrive amidst change. Learn how our guest reimagined student advising at St. Cloud State, improving retention rates by assigning dedicated student success advisors, and how these strategies can signal value in a crowded academic marketplace.
Leadership development takes center stage as we explore the operational challenges within educational organizations. By introducing management frameworks like Scrum, our guest illustrates the need for continuous learning and strategic alignment with mission statements to meet community needs. Embrace the excitement of guiding campuses through transformative periods, addressing the shifting perceptions of the value of a degree, and the ongoing efforts to make a meaningful impact. This episode promises insights that underscore the critical role of thoughtful leadership in navigating the complexities of higher education.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I really appreciate you being here.
You've got just such aninteresting background.
Can you walk me through how youwent from University of North
Colorado undergrad to a two-timeuniversity freshman?
That's a big transition and I'dlove to just know more about
your background and how youlanded where you are.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Thank you for that.
It has been a wonderful journeyand one that I would never have
predicted that this is where Iwould end up, and that's kind of
the joy of it is that I startedout really wanting to teach,
and do research and preparepeople to my field, which was
primarily in the field of agingand gerontology gerontology.
(00:47):
But as I got into that space andbeing a faculty member, I saw
how leadership really made adifference in my life and how it
was important to think abouthow leaders can help support
faculty staff and students.
And so the desire to move intothese leadership positions at
Northern Colorado was reallydriven by how can I help make
life better for faculty, forstudents, for staff, and help
(01:09):
people thrive in theseenvironments.
And so it was really anopportunity to kind of pay it
forward in a sense.
You know how can I be apositive force as a leader to
help really steward ourinstitutions and do good things
for folks and students?
And so the provost was afabulous job.
(01:30):
I mean, that's a great space tobe because you're still
connected with students a littlebit, but you're supporting
faculty and help driving thevision of the institution.
And then when I got the noticefrom St Cloud State that I had
been nominated for thispresidency, I had to pause and
think about it for a minutebecause it wasn't on my radar.
(01:52):
You know I wasn't sort ofstructured.
This is the ladder I'm going totake, but you know, I thought
ultimately presidents sit in aseat of influence and can shape
really where institutions go atthis more macro level, and so,
just fortunate to have beenselected to be in that position,
I think that it was anincredible experience, kind of
(02:15):
on the front lines of what'shappening in higher education
and how people are trying todeal with the evolving things
that are happening in highereducation in our sector, and
just what an amazing experienceand opportunity to do some good
work there.
And then, knowing that I wasready to transition to something
else you know what's the nextchapter I've been writing and
(02:38):
working on reflecting onleadership in higher education
and this opportunity cameforward and I really believe in
this notion that we're reallypart of a very special community
.
You know higher education,we're really kind of part of a
bigger family and where you canhelp and make a difference.
I'm all in.
So I saw this opportunity to toreally bring my experience to
(03:03):
the table and help aninstitution as it bridges to its
next chapter and provide steadyand thoughtful leadership in
this transition.
So it's been quite a journey,you know it's been quite a
journey.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
Yeah, that is so cool to hear what have been some of
like the biggest lessons thatyou've learned from, like
switching from that faculty orthat provost role to to a
president.
Um, like what have been some ofthe lessons as you sort of have
climbed the ladder or sort ofstepped into a different role?
Um, because you talked aboutthe need, which I think is huge
right, and the desire to want tosort of help and make a better
(03:38):
life for faculty students, staffand that better lived
experience, but what were someof the lessons that you had to
sort of learn to sort of shapeand step into like a completely
different position?
Speaker 2 (03:48):
yeah, I think.
I think, uh, top of mind isthat, as you, as you have the
the opportunity to be in thesedifferent leadership roles, the
one's awareness of, of thinkingas a system and understanding
that you work in a veryinterconnected system and
thinking about systems theoryand how nothing we do is an
(04:12):
isolated endeavor and there'salways these connections.
And I think, as a faculty, Iwas primarily concerned about my
classes, my research, mystudents, and focused on that
about my classes, my research,my students, and focused on that
.
But as you understand more ofthe pieces and parts of an
institution, you realize thathow we engage our IT
professionals with our facultyis important.
(04:35):
I mean, just all of thesepieces are connected and we have
to make sure that we arefocused on all of those pieces.
You can't neglect thecontributions of staff, it
facility.
I mean all of those pieces.
So I think that was a big lessonthat I learned as I moved from
those roles into a presidency.
And I think the other thing toois that folks don't necessarily
(05:03):
understand what the role of apresident is because you don't
have an opportunity to be onevery often.
And so I think part of that toohas been my attention to the
relationship building and theconnection you need with your
campus community to have deepdive conversations, to have
(05:23):
opportunities to explore bigissues and concepts and things
and that was an epiphany that Ihad too, is that you have to
make the effort as a presidentto engage with folks so that
there's this wonderful sharingof perspective and information
that then helps everybodyeverybody thrive in an
(05:45):
environment like that.
So those were probably two, twobigger things that that I
learned, that were takeawaysthat that I've tried to always
be mindful of yeah, no, thoseare big.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
I mean just the interconnected aspect of it, and
I loved what you said about thesort of systems thinking of it
right, like these.
These are not operating in theback vacuum, they are where
they're sort of systems thinkingof it right, like these.
Things are not operating in avacuum, they are sort of
interconnected and everything isinforming one another.
What have been the biggestdifferences with regards from
going from St Cloud to PacificNorthwest University of Health
(06:17):
Sciences?
I have to assume it's a very,very different school, but we
were sort of talking before wehit record about the macro
lessons and how their piecesapply.
But what have been some of thesort of differences that you've
noticed between the two?
Speaker 2 (06:35):
Well, there's some qualitative differences, just in
terms of the programmaticmakeup.
The programmatic makeup, youknow, the Pacific Northwest
University of Health Scienceshas a portfolio of professional
health programs OT, pt,dentistry, you know, osteopathic
medicine and a master's program, different sort of culture and
(07:02):
feel to an institution that isfocused on that profession and
making sure that they areeducating the next generation of
healthcare professionals.
So it's a different kind offeel and gestalt to what we do
here.
And certainly it's theundergraduate experience that
(07:22):
many of us have to pay attentionto at regional, comprehensive
R1s and other places adds adifferent kind of layer, you
know, to the experience here.
But I guess, I think that Ifind, as we talked earlier, more
similarities than differences.
I think you know concern aboutenrollment is big.
(07:42):
You know, how do you staycompetitive about enrollment is
big, how do you stay competitive?
So for this institution therewere only three osteopathic
medicine entities in this region.
Now there are eight, so in aspan of a very short time.
So again, we talk mostly aboutuniversities, regional,
comprehensive R1s, experiencingcompetition.
(08:03):
Well, in this space it's thesame thing is happening.
It's about recruiting students,making sure they're successful,
philanthropy to drive, you know, good work.
So what I would say, is all ofthe chunks, all of the issues
that a president has to dealwith that I had to deal with at
St Cloud State.
Around those big macro piecesare the same here.
(08:25):
The beauty of it is is that,because it's not the same
institution, how do you pivotand make sure that you're
thinking about those things in away that aligns with your new
institution?
Because it's not.
Well, here's my toolbox and sowe're going to do the same thing
we did at St Cloud State.
That's not effective, right?
It's like we need to thinkabout enrollment, what makes
(08:47):
sense for us here at PacificNorthwest University, and so on.
So that's really the joy andthe excitement of leadership is
making sure that my skill andwhat I do, what I know I can do
as a leader, aligns with whatthey need, not what I think you
know aligns with what they need,not what I think you know that
(09:09):
needs to happen here.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
Yeah, no, that is really well said and I love what
you said about you know, justthe challenges of enrollment.
And it sort of leads me to likethis next question, which is
you know, everybody talks aboutlike just how the demographic
cliff and shifts that we're sortof seeing in broader enrollment
patterns I think like fewerpeople really talk about like
how much the breadth of breadthand depth of competition is
(09:34):
really changed.
Right, you're not justcompeting against other regional
, comprehensive or other sort ofsimilar health science schools,
wherever you are, um, you're,but you're competing against
community colleges, you'recompeting against state
institutions, you're competingagainst other places where
students are being sort ofrecruited nationally.
(09:55):
You're also really competingwith the non-college narrative,
which is really big.
Um, you know, you're competingagainst places like Amazon that
have decent upskilling programs,different value proposition,
but like there's so much,there's online programs, there's
influencers that are teachingyou how to sort of do something
(10:15):
with this like thing.
So it's like the challengebecomes like signaling to the
right student and positioning insuch a crowded marketplace is
really tough.
How do you think about thatpositioning piece of it?
And you know, signaling to theright people like hey, we have a
really valuable thing, we'redoing this incredible thing for
(10:38):
our region.
We want you to be part of it.
How do you think about thatpositioning challenge?
Speaker 2 (10:46):
You know, I loved your synopsis of the environment
because it does really well, itexplains really well really,
what you said, the breadth andthe depth of what we're dealing
with, and because of that I'lljust say a couple of things
around positioning.
When I first started in highereducation, that positioning was
(11:07):
more about how to compete withthe three other institutions in
my state, and that was it.
And so the narrative isdifferent.
Right, the strategies aredifferent, the conversations
were different around that andit wasn't necessarily a deep
dive, I would say, on some ofthe issues which I'll get to in
(11:28):
a second, students, even whenthey're starting high school,
even maybe before that, aretrying to figure out do I go to
work right away?
Do I, do you know all of thosekinds of things now?
So now, instead of maybe onedifferent kind of decision you
have to make now, they're tryingto figure out how to sort
through 10 options and what thatlooks like, and they're 18.
(11:53):
And they're just starting out intheir lives and the parents are
trying to figure it all out.
So positioning is incrediblyimportant, and what I would say
is that, as I think about theuniversities that I've worked
with and how we do that, I thinkwe're to a point where families
should expect that we have highquality programs, that the
(12:17):
student environment is going tobe great.
I mean, those are fundamental.
I mean you could say, yes, wehave these and then.
But now I think where familiesand students are focused on is
what is that experience thatthey're going to get here?
And here's what I mean is thatevery students are going to
visit you, come to campus, lookat your website, which, by the
(12:41):
way, they're all starting tolook the same right, Totally.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
Look the same.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
Yeah, so so it is.
I believe, and what I've seenover the years is that that
interpersonal interaction, whereevery single interaction and I
mean every interaction, fromwalking across campus to sitting
down side by side, going overfinancial aid options, advising
everything every interactionconfirms to that student that
(13:09):
they belong here and that we areinvested in their success.
Now every institution will say,of course we're all about
student success and we're astudent-focused institution.
But the sweet sauce and themagic of this, the really living
into that, is those micro-levelinteractions where students
walk away going.
They helped me, it wasn't justa handoff to another office or
(13:32):
something.
So I really believe thatstudents have to know and feel
and see that every action isabout their success.
And one of the cool things wedid at St Cloud State was really
reimagine the advising process,because typically, as you know,
you come if you get an advisorfor the first maybe 60 hours, 30
(13:56):
credit hours and thenoftentimes you're handed off or
other kinds of things and wesaid, look, what we want is a
student success advisor that'swith a student from the moment
they are enrolled until theygraduate.
So there's no handoff.
They are there to help solveissues about.
Well, why do I have a hold on myaccount?
(14:16):
I've been sick for two weeks.
What do I do about that?
I mean, it's all these littlethings that get students sort of
you know, off course, and thenthey throw up their hands
because they don't know who togo to or what to do and they
feel overwhelmed.
So you've got this consistencyand a relationship that's built
over time that supplements whatfaculty do you know what their
(14:38):
experience is?
It's like a coach, somebodythat can help you navigate
things.
That spoke to our retention ratewent up 3%, you know, as we
implemented that.
So I believe the distinction inhow you position yourself is
that you can show how you'reliving into that belonging in a
(14:59):
sense that we want you herething.
And the other piece where thatinteraction happens that I think
helps with positioning isreally around faculty and at
Regional Comprehensive.
I think we have a really greatthing we need to really talk
about more and that our facultyare really teacher scholars.
They're great in the classroomand they are in the classroom
(15:21):
right.
They're teaching our introclasses to students, but they're
also engaged in scholarship andthey're bringing their research
and their scholarship into theclassroom and involving students
and undergraduate students.
So I feel like the positioninghas to go beyond sort of the
slogans no, not slogans theintentions that we all have
(15:43):
around serving students,providing an excellent
experience, but making good onit at that personal interaction
level.
That is really going to be thegame changer, I think, for
institutions.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
Yeah, that's incredibly well said.
I think of wonderfulopportunities.
That's incredibly well said.
I mean it's, I think it's sortof like living, living your
brand to a degree, right?
So I think what you said is thedepths of that.
Are you have to sort of like,really sort of live it, so that
the slogan that you have, orwhatever is, isn't the slogan,
(16:15):
it's like the lived experienceof it, and then when the person
is sort of seeing that they'reactually experiencing it and
feeling it and you see thatthrough your retention data, you
see that like.
But it's so comprehensive andinterconnected and kind of like
you were saying before about thesort of intersecting systems,
thinking of all of these thingssort of inform one another and
(16:35):
connect.
I really like that.
It sounds to me like that'sreally the start of the brand
and the position and then theback end of it is really
figuring out.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
What is that magic?
Speaker 1 (16:46):
sauce exactly, and how do we communicate that?
Speaker 2 (16:50):
Yeah, I think, well said, I think that's right.
Right, I think that it is ashift in helping mindset of if a
student comes in to see you andyou're not the right office or
not the right person, you say,well, go down the hall.
It's like, come on, I'll walkyou over.
So tell me about you, how areyou doing?
I mean, it is that piece that Ithink is really fundamental.
(17:13):
I think I don't know that Icared much about that when I was
an undergraduate.
I didn't expect that Right, butI do.
But I think that students today, when they have so many choices
and they have so muchopportunity, I think they're
really looking for thatdistinction of am I going to be
seen and and will I have thesupport I need and do I feel
(17:34):
welcome?
Speaker 1 (17:36):
and do I feel welcome .
Yeah, I couldn't agree more.
How do you think about hiringand retaining talent to really
support that mission?
Because it is like such achallenge, right, and I think
where the institution thatyou're at now versus where you
were prior, I have to assumethose are like very, very
(17:56):
different challenges on thetalent front.
Right Before you're in a bigmetropolitan area, that comes
with really unique challengesabout signaling to the right
person because of all thecompetitors that you have there.
But being in a rural area or asemi-rural area, you know, has
its own sort of suite ofchallenges from a talent
perspective.
So what's that been like forsort of recruiting the right
(18:20):
types of people and supportingand retaining and training them?
Speaker 2 (18:25):
Yeah, that's a really , really great question, because
everything we're talking aboutin terms of uplifting our
institutions and how we do ourwork is built on the premise of
us being able to do that recruit, hire and retain great folks.
So I think that most of thedata that I've seen around
(18:46):
satisfaction, job satisfactionthe number one piece isn't
necessarily salary, but thesalary has to feel equitable,
right.
The salary has to feel right.
But again, it goes back to whatwe were talking about the
students, our staff, our facultyand our staff also want to feel
like the institution isinvested in their success.
(19:07):
And I think, even when you'rechallenged by geography or other
circumstances that make it abit more of a challenge, when
people see that the institutionhas set up a variety of
different ways to demonstratethat we're invested in their
success, then people feel goodabout coming and staying.
(19:30):
It's that and, again, it'severything from, of course, the
tangible things around benefitsand pay and those kinds of
things.
It's also about how we engageour folks in the operations of
the institution.
People want to know thatthey've got pathways and
(19:51):
opportunities to help shape notjust their division but the
institution and workcollaboratively with people not
just their division, but theinstitution and work
collaboratively with people thatthey have.
One of the things that that Iknow we I think we did really
well at St Claude State on theleadership team is that
everybody was invested ineverybody else's success.
You know, it wasn't theenrollment management VP that
(20:13):
dealt with IT, but he dideverything he could to make sure
that our VP for IT wasconnected and he was there to
support him.
And I think that that's again acultural piece that we have to
pay attention to as leaders ishow do we make sure that we're
creating a campus culture wherepeople feel supported, not just
(20:36):
maybe by administration, whichthey should, but also across
divisions also, you know,throughout the institution it's
like how can, yeah, how can Ihelp you, even though maybe I'm
not in your division.
So I think that helps I reallyto retain people.
The salary has to be right, forsure.
The benefits have to be great.
You have to be paying attentionto their family, to their
(20:59):
spouse's needs.
You know them as human beingsand what they need.
But also the work environmenthas to be such that they feel
engaged, connected, have anopportunity to not just survive
but thrive, as we say, and beable to live into their
professional aspirations survivebut thrive, as we say, and be
(21:20):
able to live into theirprofessional aspirations.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
Yeah, no, I really like that a lot and I think
you're talking about so manysort of larger pieces of purpose
and being seen and sort ofinterconnected.
You know human needs that youhave in any kind of work and how
that sort of plays into thesort of macro goals of an
institution and alignment there,which I think is really great.
Did your approach change at allduring the pandemic in terms of
(21:44):
, like, how you're supportingteams or how you're sort of
thinking about leadership withjust everything and sort of the
massive challenges that we sawas a, as a nation and a world
citizenry, right Like?
Has that sort of changed at allor informed how you think about
that we saw as a nation and aworld citizenry, right Like?
Has that sort of changed at allor informed how you think about
that, that talent and supportpiece of leadership?
Speaker 2 (22:08):
Yeah, I think so.
I think the pandemic.
I'll say maybe there were twosort of takeaways.
There are many, but two that Ican think of that were takeaways
around leadership sort oftakeaway there are many but two
that I can think of that weretakeaways around leadership
speaks to a little bit of what Iwas just referring to, in that
there was so much we did to tryto address the human side of
what people were experiencing.
(22:30):
We know, and I know you recall,that there was a great deal of
people were tired, they wereexhausted and trying to figure
out how to pivot into this newway of being online.
There was ambiguity about howthe virus is going to express
(22:51):
itself.
I mean, there was a lot of fearand worry around that and the
emotional aspects of thatpandemic and they also too,
faculty and staff also weretrying to help support the
students who were feeling thesame thing.
So for me, the leadershipperspective and takeaway for
that again is moving to thinkingabout our campus community
(23:16):
holistically.
We're very intellectual on ourcampuses and I love that part
right, we're thinkers and weform hypotheses and we collect
data, but there's a human sideto our work and what we do, and
that was, I think, a hugetakeaway that we spent a great
deal of time and communicatedfrequently just to give people
(23:39):
updates, so they felt connectedand that we could take some of
the worry out of what they werefeeling in that isolation.
So I think that that'sdefinitely one of the things
that we should take as acontinuing lesson about
leadership and what we need todo to support folks now, because
(23:59):
the changes that we've talkedabout in higher education also
are bringing some uncertaintyand some fear, maybe, about what
higher ed in their future isgoing to look like.
So that's an important piece tothink about.
I guess the second thing is thatwhat the pandemic taught me is
that we can't predict what'sgoing to come down the road.
(24:23):
I mean, we have data that cantell us about the enrollment
cliff and those kinds of things,but there's a lot of what.
I guess what we have to beprepared for is the issues that
we just can't predict, and partof that, for me lesson is how do
we help people and institutionsbe resilient, be flexible?
(24:43):
Have the structures alreadyembedded in what we need so that
it doesn't matter what comesour way?
We have an institutionalculture and structures to be
able to respond and to deal withwhat's coming our way?
A big ask.
For sure it's a big challenge,but what I saw with our folks is
(25:04):
that resiliency andadaptability in the solutions
they brought forward to solvethe problems that we had never
had to solve before.
It was absolutely one of themost remarkable things that I've
seen.
So how do we capture, you know,that spirit of innovation,
adaptation now as part of ourculture and the institutional
(25:27):
DNA to be able to becausethere'll be something right,
there'll be something else thatwill come our way and sort of be
proactively ready?
Speaker 1 (25:36):
I, if that makes sense yeah, no, that makes, that
makes a ton of sense, um Ireally like the way that you you
frame that in terms ofresilient, flexible culture.
um, because that the balancingof, like the immediate needs
with those long-term goals, Ithink is something that is like
really challenging forinstitutions to do.
I think, like most places I'veI've worked or worked with have
(25:57):
been like really good at that.
Let's strategically plan andthink 10 weeks out when it comes
to like okay, we have one month, what are the things that we
really want to do to hit X markand how do we operation
ourselves to sort of to thistradition to do that those
pieces get a little bit trickier?
Like when you're thinking of,like how do I sort of balance
this tradition to do that thosepieces get a little bit trickier
?
Like when you're thinking of,like how do I, how do I sort of
(26:20):
balance the needs of the two toreally sort of keep moving in
the direction that that we wantto go?
Um, if you could like sort ofmaybe pivoting a little bit here
, but if you could just wave amagic wand and just have any
kind of operational fix um forfor the place that you're
working right now, what do youthink that would be?
Speaker 2 (26:41):
Well, that's a.
That's a great question.
It's kind of related to yourlong-term, short-term, but I'll
kind of divide by this in maybetwo, two ways to approach it.
Operationally, I think that theIf I could wave a wand and
every unit, every unit,department on campus could go
(27:05):
through a business practiceanalysis of how process right,
how we do our processes, how dowe do that.
And then the analysis of, well,why do we do that?
I think could be helpful in twoways.
One, it could increase ourefficiencies because you know,
if we've been doing a job for areally long time, we keep doing
(27:27):
the same things we do and thenwe add on new stuff, because
that's how it goes.
And I think what happens isthat faculty and staff get maybe
inundated and perhaps a littleoverwhelmed by all of the steps
they have to do to get somethingaccomplished.
So this is really in the weeds.
But I think that if I couldwave a wand and everybody would
(27:49):
go through that and theneliminate things we don't need
anymore, well, why do we needthree signatures for this?
It will help, I think, theprocess and procedures, but also
the work that folks arechallenged to do in addition to
all the new stuff that we'reasking them to do as well, and I
think that that's a veryin-the-weeds idea.
(28:10):
But again, it goes to constantsort of analysis and thinking
about what are we doing?
Why are we doing it?
Does it make sense anymore?
Can we do it differently?
And embedding that in theculture I think could, could
help a great deal.
Um, I think the piece that youyou started off with in terms of
(28:31):
you have these long-term goals,the organization, every, every
university does, they've gotlong-term strategic intentions.
Uh, oftentimes you know targetby a particular year, that
certain things are supposed tohappen.
They're very oftentimes are inmacro level kinds of things,
(29:04):
those big things, but there hasto be an operationalization of
the steps that you're going totake to get there and that, I
think, is your short term likeokay, so what are we
accomplishing?
How are we getting there?
And I see sometimes that'swhere the gap is is that we're
very happy about the strategicplans we've created, we have
these goals.
Then, to implement it, it'slike it loses its traction and
(29:26):
all of a sudden you can't figureout well, how is the?
How are the budget thingsaligned with our strategic plan?
And then, what actions are wedoing this month.
You know this semester to liveinto that, and I'll, and I'll
tell you one of the things thatI remember.
I got a question when I firstwas at St Cloud State and talked
(29:47):
about how we wanted to be theuniversity of choice and that we
were going to kind of gothrough and work as a campus to
figure out how we're going toshape that.
And I'll never and I alwaysthanked him for this He'd
written this back when he raisedhis hand and said President
Wacker, you're like my seventhpresident or my sixth, I can't
remember.
You're a president among a longline of presidents that tell me
that same thing.
(30:07):
Why should I believe you?
And it's so true, I mean it is.
It was such a brilliant questionbecause we oftentimes let our
folks down when we don't haveintentionality around.
This is what we say we're goingto do, this is how we're going
to do it, we're going to do it,and then we're going to report
back and let you know how it'sgoing, because it's very easy
(30:29):
for a campus community to be, um, maybe a little skeptical or uh
, you know, like, why should I?
Why should I uh, jump in hereand and buy into plan, is it?
Speaker 1 (30:42):
really going to make a difference.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
So I really that was a huge, huge lesson.
I mean, when we think aboutleadership and ongoing folks
have to see that you, you dowhat you say, you say what you
do with campus involvement andthat people say we're gone.
Speaker 1 (30:59):
And it's really easy to get you know why right.
Completely.
It's so easy to get off trackwith that and that was such a
great answer because it's very,very easy to get off track.
It's very easy to sort ofjustify a new direction sort of
goals.
But I think one of thechallenges that I've seen too is
(31:19):
not everybody really has theskill set to operationalize
those things.
And why would they right Likethey haven't been trained for
that, they haven't been sort ofskilled in that right.
So like there's there's aninvestment in terms of you know,
to your point, like thatoperational assessment and that,
that, that sort of analysis ofwhat are we doing and how do we
(31:42):
sort of fix those pieces thatyou said or said before.
But then actually sort of like,what are frameworks for really
doing this?
Well, I was just working with ateam teaching scrum um, which
is just a, a managementframework um, and we were sort
of using, in conjunction withanother one um that I thought
mapped to their work a littlebit better, but it was like was
(32:04):
like it was really sort ofinteresting because I could tell
the people that were theyounger folks like loved it.
It was just like the structureand the sort of interest, but
the folks that are really sortof tenured in position.
It was really uncomfortable,right.
Speaker 2 (32:17):
And it like but it was, it was a big learning curve
to sort of get that.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
But as we sort of kind of work through that
discomfort of it, you can kindof see the light bulbs going off
and it's just like, oh, I likeI just put these tasks here and
like, and when we sort ofaccomplish this, we just do this
thing here.
But like it was, it's a reallysort of interesting thing,
because you know none of us aretaught these things.
They're not like there's not aum, this magic sort of
(32:41):
transformation you go through tobe an administrator or to be
this effective thing.
Nor sometimes are thereincentives, like in your work,
to really sort of like masterthese kind of pieces.
So I really like what you saidaround how you're, how you're
sort of doing the X's and O's,the tactics to get people there
because that's a huge piece ofit.
The tactics to really sort ofget people there, cause that's a
huge piece of it.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
It is, isn't it?
A huge piece?
And and I appreciate your pointabout you know, as leaders, we
we oftentimes come with withskill sets in a lot of things
and a lot of holes in otherthings.
You know, for whatever, forwhatever reason, and it speaks
to I think the commitment we allneed is that, as leaders, we
(33:25):
have to commit to continuing togrow and continuing to learn
about just how to be better inthese jobs.
And and part of that is you'reright, I mean, there's no class.
I didn't take a class that'scalled strategic management,
one-on-one, but it but it isthat commitment to, to rolling
up your sleeves and saying, okay, we're, I'm going to what's the
(33:47):
best practices around this,learning about it, and then also
surrounding yourself with ateam of leaders that compliment
and can and can do those X's andO's.
You know, I know I'm astrategic thinker, big picture
person, and you know I hadamazing people on my team that
now said now, dr Wacker, now, ina week, what are we doing next
(34:10):
tomorrow?
I mean, you have to sort ofcreate this culture, knowing
that you don't know everything,but yet bringing people in that
can really complement and toyour get things done right, move
things, move things forward, sothey don't drop, for sure.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
yeah yeah, really, really well said.
Um, well, I think that's agreat place to um start wrapping
up.
Can you maybe justcontextualize what are you
really excited about?
Um, you know, I'm looking atyou're, at this incredible
institution.
You're, uh, I think, serving areal need in terms of, like, the
gaps that that you, you arefilling in terms of talent and
(34:46):
real workforce needs in that, inthat sector of the country.
But what are you really excitedabout when it comes to the
broader educational landscapeand your contribution to it?
Speaker 2 (35:26):
Yeah, you know, as a first-generation student, it's
never left me that how fortunateI was and am to have in higher
education is to be of service toour communities, to our state,
to the country, to the globe.
And being of service means tounderstand how you can bring
expertise, resources and thepower of our faculty and our
staff to solve a reallysignificant need in our
(35:46):
community.
And so the mission and visionhere at Pacific Northwest
University is about serving themedically underserved and rural
populations, and that it reallyis speaks to, yes, that's why
higher education exists, that'swhy we bring together amazing
faculty and staff to really dothat and to make a difference in
(36:11):
our communities.
And so I think again that youknow.
The thing that I'm so gratefulfor is that leadership positions
are always about bridging andmaking sure that we're doing
everything we can to facilitateand live into that mission, and
that's really, I think, whatpresidents do, what leaders do.
So where can we build a bridge?
What do we need to get to liveinto that mission and vision?
(36:34):
As we said earlier, it can'tjust be a slogan.
We have to actually figure outand, as leaders, figure out what
we need to do to make sure thatthe I guess I'll say the
sidewalks have been poured sothat we can live into what we
said.
That is our mission and vision,I know I mean it is challenging
(36:55):
times to be in higher education,as you said earlier.
All the things coming at usfrom do you even need a degree
any longer, you know?
Sort of that lack ofunderstanding of the value of
higher education, to thecompetition, to all of that.
But it's the best time to be inhigher education, too, because
we need leaders that that canreally wade into that and help
(37:17):
our campuses find their waythrough through all of this, uh
up, this upheaval in highereducation and do what we are
called to do, which is make adifference in the lives of our
students and our communities.
So challenging, always Exciting, absolutely yeah challenging,
(37:38):
always, yeah, exciting.
Speaker 1 (37:40):
I love that.
Well, thank you, this has beenawesome Well thank you.
Speaker 2 (37:44):
This has been awesome .
Well, thank you.
I really enjoyed connecting.
Thank you for the conversationand I'm sorry about the
technology issues, but thanksagain and thanks for
contributing to helping us allbe better.
I really appreciate you being here.
You've got just such aninteresting background.
Can you walk me through how youwent from University of North
Colorado undergrad to a two-timeuniversity freshman?
That's a big transition and I'dlove to just know more about
your background and how youlanded where you are.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Thank you for that.
It has been a wonderful journeyand one that I would never have
predicted that this is where Iwould end up, and that's kind of
the joy of it is that I startedout really wanting to teach,
and do research and preparepeople to my field, which was
primarily in the field of agingand gerontology gerontology.
(00:47):
But as I got into that space andbeing a faculty member, I saw
how leadership really made adifference in my life and how it
was important to think abouthow leaders can help support
faculty staff and students.
And so the desire to move intothese leadership positions at
Northern Colorado was reallydriven by how can I help make
life better for faculty, forstudents, for staff, and help
(01:09):
people thrive in theseenvironments.
And so it was really anopportunity to kind of pay it
forward in a sense.
You know how can I be apositive force as a leader to
help really steward ourinstitutions and do good things
for folks and students?
And so the provost was afabulous job.
(01:30):
I mean, that's a great space tobe because you're still
connected with students a littlebit, but you're supporting
faculty and help driving thevision of the institution.
And then when I got the noticefrom St Cloud State that I had
been nominated for thispresidency, I had to pause and
think about it for a minutebecause it wasn't on my radar.
(01:52):
You know I wasn't sort ofstructured.
This is the ladder I'm going totake, but you know, I thought
ultimately presidents sit in aseat of influence and can shape
really where institutions go atthis more macro level, and so,
just fortunate to have beenselected to be in that position,
I think that it was anincredible experience, kind of
(02:15):
on the front lines of what'shappening in higher education
and how people are trying todeal with the evolving things
that are happening in highereducation in our sector, and
just what an amazing experienceand opportunity to do some good
work there.
And then, knowing that I wasready to transition to something
else you know what's the nextchapter I've been writing and
(02:38):
working on reflecting onleadership in higher education
and this opportunity cameforward and I really believe in
this notion that we're reallypart of a very special community
.
You know higher education,we're really kind of part of a
bigger family and where you canhelp and make a difference.
I'm all in.
So I saw this opportunity to toreally bring my experience to
(03:03):
the table and help aninstitution as it bridges to its
next chapter and provide steadyand thoughtful leadership in
this transition.
So it's been quite a journey,you know it's been quite a
journey.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
Yeah, that is so cool to hear what have been some of
like the biggest lessons thatyou've learned from, like
switching from that faculty orthat provost role to to a
president.
Um, like what have been some ofthe lessons as you sort of have
climbed the ladder or sort ofstepped into a different role?
Um, because you talked aboutthe need, which I think is huge
right, and the desire to want tosort of help and make a better
(03:38):
life for faculty students, staffand that better lived
experience, but what were someof the lessons that you had to
sort of learn to sort of shapeand step into like a completely
different position?
Speaker 2 (03:48):
yeah, I think.
I think, uh, top of mind isthat, as you, as you have the
the opportunity to be in thesedifferent leadership roles, the
one's awareness of, of thinkingas a system and understanding
that you work in a veryinterconnected system and
thinking about systems theoryand how nothing we do is an
(04:12):
isolated endeavor and there'salways these connections.
And I think, as a faculty, Iwas primarily concerned about my
classes, my research, mystudents, and focused on that
about my classes, my research,my students, and focused on that
.
But as you understand more ofthe pieces and parts of an
institution, you realize thathow we engage our IT
professionals with our facultyis important.
(04:35):
I mean, just all of thesepieces are connected and we have
to make sure that we arefocused on all of those pieces.
You can't neglect thecontributions of staff, it
facility.
I mean all of those pieces.
So I think that was a big lessonthat I learned as I moved from
those roles into a presidency.
And I think the other thing toois that folks don't necessarily
(05:03):
understand what the role of apresident is because you don't
have an opportunity to be onevery often.
And so I think part of that toohas been my attention to the
relationship building and theconnection you need with your
campus community to have deepdive conversations, to have
(05:23):
opportunities to explore bigissues and concepts and things
and that was an epiphany that Ihad too, is that you have to
make the effort as a presidentto engage with folks so that
there's this wonderful sharingof perspective and information
that then helps everybodyeverybody thrive in an
(05:45):
environment like that.
So those were probably two, twobigger things that that I
learned, that were takeawaysthat that I've tried to always
be mindful of yeah, no, thoseare big.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
I mean just the interconnected aspect of it, and
I loved what you said about thesort of systems thinking of it
right, like these.
These are not operating in theback vacuum, they are where
they're sort of systems thinkingof it right, like these.
Things are not operating in avacuum, they are sort of
interconnected and everything isinforming one another.
What have been the biggestdifferences with regards from
going from St Cloud to PacificNorthwest University of Health
(06:17):
Sciences?
I have to assume it's a very,very different school, but we
were sort of talking before wehit record about the macro
lessons and how their piecesapply.
But what have been some of thesort of differences that you've
noticed between the two?
Speaker 2 (06:35):
Well, there's some qualitative differences, just in
terms of the programmaticmakeup.
The programmatic makeup, youknow, the Pacific Northwest
University of Health Scienceshas a portfolio of professional
health programs OT, pt,dentistry, you know, osteopathic
medicine and a master's program, different sort of culture and
(07:02):
feel to an institution that isfocused on that profession and
making sure that they areeducating the next generation of
healthcare professionals.
So it's a different kind offeel and gestalt to what we do
here.
And certainly it's theundergraduate experience that
(07:22):
many of us have to pay attentionto at regional, comprehensive
R1s and other places adds adifferent kind of layer, you
know, to the experience here.
But I guess, I think that Ifind, as we talked earlier, more
similarities than differences.
I think you know concern aboutenrollment is big.
(07:42):
You know, how do you staycompetitive about enrollment is
big, how do you stay competitive?
So for this institution therewere only three osteopathic
medicine entities in this region.
Now there are eight, so in aspan of a very short time.
So again, we talk mostly aboutuniversities, regional,
comprehensive R1s, experiencingcompetition.
(08:03):
Well, in this space it's thesame thing is happening.
It's about recruiting students,making sure they're successful,
philanthropy to drive, you know, good work.
So what I would say, is all ofthe chunks, all of the issues
that a president has to dealwith that I had to deal with at
St Cloud State.
Around those big macro piecesare the same here.
(08:25):
The beauty of it is is that,because it's not the same
institution, how do you pivotand make sure that you're
thinking about those things in away that aligns with your new
institution?
Because it's not.
Well, here's my toolbox and sowe're going to do the same thing
we did at St Cloud State.
That's not effective, right?
It's like we need to thinkabout enrollment, what makes
(08:47):
sense for us here at PacificNorthwest University, and so on.
So that's really the joy andthe excitement of leadership is
making sure that my skill andwhat I do, what I know I can do
as a leader, aligns with whatthey need, not what I think you
know aligns with what they need,not what I think you know that
(09:09):
needs to happen here.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
Yeah, no, that is really well said and I love what
you said about you know, justthe challenges of enrollment.
And it sort of leads me to likethis next question, which is
you know, everybody talks aboutlike just how the demographic
cliff and shifts that we're sortof seeing in broader enrollment
patterns I think like fewerpeople really talk about like
how much the breadth of breadthand depth of competition is
(09:34):
really changed.
Right, you're not justcompeting against other regional
, comprehensive or other sort ofsimilar health science schools,
wherever you are, um, you're,but you're competing against
community colleges, you'recompeting against state
institutions, you're competingagainst other places where
students are being sort ofrecruited nationally.
(09:55):
You're also really competingwith the non-college narrative,
which is really big.
Um, you know, you're competingagainst places like Amazon that
have decent upskilling programs,different value proposition,
but like there's so much,there's online programs, there's
influencers that are teachingyou how to sort of do something
(10:15):
with this like thing.
So it's like the challengebecomes like signaling to the
right student and positioning insuch a crowded marketplace is
really tough.
How do you think about thatpositioning piece of it?
And you know, signaling to theright people like hey, we have a
really valuable thing, we'redoing this incredible thing for
(10:38):
our region.
We want you to be part of it.
How do you think about thatpositioning challenge?
Speaker 2 (10:46):
You know, I loved your synopsis of the environment
because it does really well, itexplains really well really,
what you said, the breadth andthe depth of what we're dealing
with, and because of that I'lljust say a couple of things
around positioning.
When I first started in highereducation, that positioning was
(11:07):
more about how to compete withthe three other institutions in
my state, and that was it.
And so the narrative isdifferent.
Right, the strategies aredifferent, the conversations
were different around that andit wasn't necessarily a deep
dive, I would say, on some ofthe issues which I'll get to in
(11:28):
a second, students, even whenthey're starting high school,
even maybe before that, aretrying to figure out do I go to
work right away?
Do I, do you know all of thosekinds of things now?
So now, instead of maybe onedifferent kind of decision you
have to make now, they're tryingto figure out how to sort
through 10 options and what thatlooks like, and they're 18.
(11:53):
And they're just starting out intheir lives and the parents are
trying to figure it all out.
So positioning is incrediblyimportant, and what I would say
is that, as I think about theuniversities that I've worked
with and how we do that, I thinkwe're to a point where families
should expect that we have highquality programs, that the
(12:17):
student environment is going tobe great.
I mean, those are fundamental.
I mean you could say, yes, wehave these and then.
But now I think where familiesand students are focused on is
what is that experience thatthey're going to get here?
And here's what I mean is thatevery students are going to
visit you, come to campus, lookat your website, which, by the
(12:41):
way, they're all starting tolook the same right, Totally.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
Look the same.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
Yeah, so so it is.
I believe, and what I've seenover the years is that that
interpersonal interaction, whereevery single interaction and I
mean every interaction, fromwalking across campus to sitting
down side by side, going overfinancial aid options, advising
everything every interactionconfirms to that student that
(13:09):
they belong here and that we areinvested in their success.
Now every institution will say,of course we're all about
student success and we're astudent-focused institution.
But the sweet sauce and themagic of this, the really living
into that, is those micro-levelinteractions where students
walk away going.
They helped me, it wasn't justa handoff to another office or
(13:32):
something.
So I really believe thatstudents have to know and feel
and see that every action isabout their success.
And one of the cool things wedid at St Cloud State was really
reimagine the advising process,because typically, as you know,
you come if you get an advisorfor the first maybe 60 hours, 30
(13:56):
credit hours and thenoftentimes you're handed off or
other kinds of things and wesaid, look, what we want is a
student success advisor that'swith a student from the moment
they are enrolled until theygraduate.
So there's no handoff.
They are there to help solveissues about.
Well, why do I have a hold on myaccount?
(14:16):
I've been sick for two weeks.
What do I do about that?
I mean, it's all these littlethings that get students sort of
you know, off course, and thenthey throw up their hands
because they don't know who togo to or what to do and they
feel overwhelmed.
So you've got this consistencyand a relationship that's built
over time that supplements whatfaculty do you know what their
(14:38):
experience is?
It's like a coach, somebodythat can help you navigate
things.
That spoke to our retention ratewent up 3%, you know, as we
implemented that.
So I believe the distinction inhow you position yourself is
that you can show how you'reliving into that belonging in a
(14:59):
sense that we want you herething.
And the other piece where thatinteraction happens that I think
helps with positioning isreally around faculty and at
Regional Comprehensive.
I think we have a really greatthing we need to really talk
about more and that our facultyare really teacher scholars.
They're great in the classroomand they are in the classroom
(15:21):
right.
They're teaching our introclasses to students, but they're
also engaged in scholarship andthey're bringing their research
and their scholarship into theclassroom and involving students
and undergraduate students.
So I feel like the positioninghas to go beyond sort of the
slogans no, not slogans theintentions that we all have
(15:43):
around serving students,providing an excellent
experience, but making good onit at that personal interaction
level.
That is really going to be thegame changer, I think, for
institutions.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
Yeah, that's incredibly well said.
I think of wonderfulopportunities.
That's incredibly well said.
I mean it's, I think it's sortof like living, living your
brand to a degree, right?
So I think what you said is thedepths of that.
Are you have to sort of like,really sort of live it, so that
the slogan that you have, orwhatever is, isn't the slogan,
(16:15):
it's like the lived experienceof it, and then when the person
is sort of seeing that they'reactually experiencing it and
feeling it and you see thatthrough your retention data, you
see that like.
But it's so comprehensive andinterconnected and kind of like
you were saying before about thesort of intersecting systems,
thinking of all of these thingssort of inform one another and
(16:35):
connect.
I really like that.
It sounds to me like that'sreally the start of the brand
and the position and then theback end of it is really
figuring out.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
What is that magic?
Speaker 1 (16:46):
sauce exactly, and how do we communicate that?
Speaker 2 (16:50):
Yeah, I think, well said, I think that's right.
Right, I think that it is ashift in helping mindset of if a
student comes in to see you andyou're not the right office or
not the right person, you say,well, go down the hall.
It's like, come on, I'll walkyou over.
So tell me about you, how areyou doing?
I mean, it is that piece that Ithink is really fundamental.
(17:13):
I think I don't know that Icared much about that when I was
an undergraduate.
I didn't expect that Right, butI do.
But I think that students today, when they have so many choices
and they have so muchopportunity, I think they're
really looking for thatdistinction of am I going to be
seen and and will I have thesupport I need and do I feel
(17:34):
welcome?
Speaker 1 (17:36):
and do I feel welcome .
Yeah, I couldn't agree more.
How do you think about hiringand retaining talent to really
support that mission?
Because it is like such achallenge, right, and I think
where the institution thatyou're at now versus where you
were prior, I have to assumethose are like very, very
(17:56):
different challenges on thetalent front.
Right Before you're in a bigmetropolitan area, that comes
with really unique challengesabout signaling to the right
person because of all thecompetitors that you have there.
But being in a rural area or asemi-rural area, you know, has
its own sort of suite ofchallenges from a talent
perspective.
So what's that been like forsort of recruiting the right
(18:20):
types of people and supportingand retaining and training them?
Speaker 2 (18:25):
Yeah, that's a really , really great question, because
everything we're talking aboutin terms of uplifting our
institutions and how we do ourwork is built on the premise of
us being able to do that recruit, hire and retain great folks.
So I think that most of thedata that I've seen around
(18:46):
satisfaction, job satisfactionthe number one piece isn't
necessarily salary, but thesalary has to feel equitable,
right.
The salary has to feel right.
But again, it goes back to whatwe were talking about the
students, our staff, our facultyand our staff also want to feel
like the institution isinvested in their success.
(19:07):
And I think, even when you'rechallenged by geography or other
circumstances that make it abit more of a challenge, when
people see that the institutionhas set up a variety of
different ways to demonstratethat we're invested in their
success, then people feel goodabout coming and staying.
(19:30):
It's that and, again, it'severything from, of course, the
tangible things around benefitsand pay and those kinds of
things.
It's also about how we engageour folks in the operations of
the institution.
People want to know thatthey've got pathways and
(19:51):
opportunities to help shape notjust their division but the
institution and workcollaboratively with people not
just their division, but theinstitution and work
collaboratively with people thatthey have.
One of the things that that Iknow we I think we did really
well at St Claude State on theleadership team is that
everybody was invested ineverybody else's success.
You know, it wasn't theenrollment management VP that
(20:13):
dealt with IT, but he dideverything he could to make sure
that our VP for IT wasconnected and he was there to
support him.
And I think that that's again acultural piece that we have to
pay attention to as leaders ishow do we make sure that we're
creating a campus culture wherepeople feel supported, not just
(20:36):
maybe by administration, whichthey should, but also across
divisions also, you know,throughout the institution it's
like how can, yeah, how can Ihelp you, even though maybe I'm
not in your division.
So I think that helps I reallyto retain people.
The salary has to be right, forsure.
The benefits have to be great.
You have to be paying attentionto their family, to their
(20:59):
spouse's needs.
You know them as human beingsand what they need.
But also the work environmenthas to be such that they feel
engaged, connected, have anopportunity to not just survive
but thrive, as we say, and beable to live into their
professional aspirations survivebut thrive, as we say, and be
(21:20):
able to live into theirprofessional aspirations.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
Yeah, no, I really like that a lot and I think
you're talking about so manysort of larger pieces of purpose
and being seen and sort ofinterconnected.
You know human needs that youhave in any kind of work and how
that sort of plays into thesort of macro goals of an
institution and alignment there,which I think is really great.
Did your approach change at allduring the pandemic in terms of
(21:44):
, like, how you're supportingteams or how you're sort of
thinking about leadership withjust everything and sort of the
massive challenges that we sawas a, as a nation and a world
citizenry, right Like?
Has that sort of changed at allor informed how you think about
that we saw as a nation and aworld citizenry, right Like?
Has that sort of changed at allor informed how you think about
that, that talent and supportpiece of leadership?
Speaker 2 (22:08):
Yeah, I think so.
I think the pandemic.
I'll say maybe there were twosort of takeaways.
There are many, but two that Ican think of that were takeaways
around leadership sort oftakeaway there are many but two
that I can think of that weretakeaways around leadership
speaks to a little bit of what Iwas just referring to, in that
there was so much we did to tryto address the human side of
what people were experiencing.
(22:30):
We know, and I know you recall,that there was a great deal of
people were tired, they wereexhausted and trying to figure
out how to pivot into this newway of being online.
There was ambiguity about howthe virus is going to express
(22:51):
itself.
I mean, there was a lot of fearand worry around that and the
emotional aspects of thatpandemic and they also too,
faculty and staff also weretrying to help support the
students who were feeling thesame thing.
So for me, the leadershipperspective and takeaway for
that again is moving to thinkingabout our campus community
(23:16):
holistically.
We're very intellectual on ourcampuses and I love that part
right, we're thinkers and weform hypotheses and we collect
data, but there's a human sideto our work and what we do, and
that was, I think, a hugetakeaway that we spent a great
deal of time and communicatedfrequently just to give people
(23:39):
updates, so they felt connectedand that we could take some of
the worry out of what they werefeeling in that isolation.
So I think that that'sdefinitely one of the things
that we should take as acontinuing lesson about
leadership and what we need todo to support folks now, because
(23:59):
the changes that we've talkedabout in higher education also
are bringing some uncertaintyand some fear, maybe, about what
higher ed in their future isgoing to look like.
So that's an important piece tothink about.
I guess the second thing is thatwhat the pandemic taught me is
that we can't predict what'sgoing to come down the road.
(24:23):
I mean, we have data that cantell us about the enrollment
cliff and those kinds of things,but there's a lot of what.
I guess what we have to beprepared for is the issues that
we just can't predict, and partof that, for me lesson is how do
we help people and institutionsbe resilient, be flexible?
(24:43):
Have the structures alreadyembedded in what we need so that
it doesn't matter what comesour way?
We have an institutionalculture and structures to be
able to respond and to deal withwhat's coming our way?
A big ask.
For sure it's a big challenge,but what I saw with our folks is
(25:04):
that resiliency andadaptability in the solutions
they brought forward to solvethe problems that we had never
had to solve before.
It was absolutely one of themost remarkable things that I've
seen.
So how do we capture, you know,that spirit of innovation,
adaptation now as part of ourculture and the institutional
(25:27):
DNA to be able to becausethere'll be something right,
there'll be something else thatwill come our way and sort of be
proactively ready?
Speaker 1 (25:36):
I, if that makes sense yeah, no, that makes, that
makes a ton of sense, um Ireally like the way that you you
frame that in terms ofresilient, flexible culture.
um, because that the balancingof, like the immediate needs
with those long-term goals, Ithink is something that is like
really challenging forinstitutions to do.
I think, like most places I'veI've worked or worked with have
(25:57):
been like really good at that.
Let's strategically plan andthink 10 weeks out when it comes
to like okay, we have one month, what are the things that we
really want to do to hit X markand how do we operation
ourselves to sort of to thistradition to do that those
pieces get a little bit trickier?
Like when you're thinking of,like how do I sort of balance
this tradition to do that thosepieces get a little bit trickier
?
Like when you're thinking of,like how do I, how do I sort of
(26:20):
balance the needs of the two toreally sort of keep moving in
the direction that that we wantto go?
Um, if you could like sort ofmaybe pivoting a little bit here
, but if you could just wave amagic wand and just have any
kind of operational fix um forfor the place that you're
working right now, what do youthink that would be?
Speaker 2 (26:41):
Well, that's a.
That's a great question.
It's kind of related to yourlong-term, short-term, but I'll
kind of divide by this in maybetwo, two ways to approach it.
Operationally, I think that theIf I could wave a wand and
every unit, every unit,department on campus could go
(27:05):
through a business practiceanalysis of how process right,
how we do our processes, how dowe do that.
And then the analysis of, well,why do we do that?
I think could be helpful in twoways.
One, it could increase ourefficiencies because you know,
if we've been doing a job for areally long time, we keep doing
(27:27):
the same things we do and thenwe add on new stuff, because
that's how it goes.
And I think what happens isthat faculty and staff get maybe
inundated and perhaps a littleoverwhelmed by all of the steps
they have to do to get somethingaccomplished.
So this is really in the weeds.
But I think that if I couldwave a wand and everybody would
(27:49):
go through that and theneliminate things we don't need
anymore, well, why do we needthree signatures for this?
It will help, I think, theprocess and procedures, but also
the work that folks arechallenged to do in addition to
all the new stuff that we'reasking them to do as well, and I
think that that's a veryin-the-weeds idea.
(28:10):
But again, it goes to constantsort of analysis and thinking
about what are we doing?
Why are we doing it?
Does it make sense anymore?
Can we do it differently?
And embedding that in theculture I think could, could
help a great deal.
Um, I think the piece that youyou started off with in terms of
(28:31):
you have these long-term goals,the organization, every, every
university does, they've gotlong-term strategic intentions.
Uh, oftentimes you know targetby a particular year, that
certain things are supposed tohappen.
They're very oftentimes are inmacro level kinds of things,
(29:04):
those big things, but there hasto be an operationalization of
the steps that you're going totake to get there and that, I
think, is your short term likeokay, so what are we
accomplishing?
How are we getting there?
And I see sometimes that'swhere the gap is is that we're
very happy about the strategicplans we've created, we have
these goals.
Then, to implement it, it'slike it loses its traction and
(29:26):
all of a sudden you can't figureout well, how is the?
How are the budget thingsaligned with our strategic plan?
And then, what actions are wedoing this month.
You know this semester to liveinto that, and I'll, and I'll
tell you one of the things thatI remember.
I got a question when I firstwas at St Cloud State and talked
(29:47):
about how we wanted to be theuniversity of choice and that we
were going to kind of gothrough and work as a campus to
figure out how we're going toshape that.
And I'll never and I alwaysthanked him for this He'd
written this back when he raisedhis hand and said President
Wacker, you're like my seventhpresident or my sixth, I can't
remember.
You're a president among a longline of presidents that tell me
that same thing.
(30:07):
Why should I believe you?
And it's so true, I mean it is.
It was such a brilliant questionbecause we oftentimes let our
folks down when we don't haveintentionality around.
This is what we say we're goingto do, this is how we're going
to do it, we're going to do it,and then we're going to report
back and let you know how it'sgoing, because it's very easy
(30:29):
for a campus community to be, um, maybe a little skeptical or uh
, you know, like, why should I?
Why should I uh, jump in hereand and buy into plan, is it?
Speaker 1 (30:42):
really going to make a difference.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
So I really that was a huge, huge lesson.
I mean, when we think aboutleadership and ongoing folks
have to see that you, you dowhat you say, you say what you
do with campus involvement andthat people say we're gone.
Speaker 1 (30:59):
And it's really easy to get you know why right.
Completely.
It's so easy to get off trackwith that and that was such a
great answer because it's very,very easy to get off track.
It's very easy to sort ofjustify a new direction sort of
goals.
But I think one of thechallenges that I've seen too is
(31:19):
not everybody really has theskill set to operationalize
those things.
And why would they right Likethey haven't been trained for
that, they haven't been sort ofskilled in that right.
So like there's there's aninvestment in terms of you know,
to your point, like thatoperational assessment and that,
that, that sort of analysis ofwhat are we doing and how do we
(31:42):
sort of fix those pieces thatyou said or said before.
But then actually sort of like,what are frameworks for really
doing this?
Well, I was just working with ateam teaching scrum um, which
is just a, a managementframework um, and we were sort
of using, in conjunction withanother one um that I thought
mapped to their work a littlebit better, but it was like was
(32:04):
like it was really sort ofinteresting because I could tell
the people that were theyounger folks like loved it.
It was just like the structureand the sort of interest, but
the folks that are really sortof tenured in position.
It was really uncomfortable,right.
Speaker 2 (32:17):
And it like but it was, it was a big learning curve
to sort of get that.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
But as we sort of kind of work through that
discomfort of it, you can kindof see the light bulbs going off
and it's just like, oh, I likeI just put these tasks here and
like, and when we sort ofaccomplish this, we just do this
thing here.
But like it was, it's a reallysort of interesting thing,
because you know none of us aretaught these things.
They're not like there's not aum, this magic sort of
(32:41):
transformation you go through tobe an administrator or to be
this effective thing.
Nor sometimes are thereincentives, like in your work,
to really sort of like masterthese kind of pieces.
So I really like what you saidaround how you're, how you're
sort of doing the X's and O's,the tactics to get people there
because that's a huge piece ofit.
The tactics to really sort ofget people there, cause that's a
huge piece of it.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
It is, isn't it?
A huge piece?
And and I appreciate your pointabout you know, as leaders, we
we oftentimes come with withskill sets in a lot of things
and a lot of holes in otherthings.
You know, for whatever, forwhatever reason, and it speaks
to I think the commitment we allneed is that, as leaders, we
(33:25):
have to commit to continuing togrow and continuing to learn
about just how to be better inthese jobs.
And and part of that is you'reright, I mean, there's no class.
I didn't take a class that'scalled strategic management,
one-on-one, but it but it isthat commitment to, to rolling
up your sleeves and saying, okay, we're, I'm going to what's the
(33:47):
best practices around this,learning about it, and then also
surrounding yourself with ateam of leaders that compliment
and can and can do those X's andO's.
You know, I know I'm astrategic thinker, big picture
person, and you know I hadamazing people on my team that
now said now, dr Wacker, now, ina week, what are we doing next
(34:10):
tomorrow?
I mean, you have to sort ofcreate this culture, knowing
that you don't know everything,but yet bringing people in that
can really complement and toyour get things done right, move
things, move things forward, sothey don't drop, for sure.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
yeah yeah, really, really well said.
Um, well, I think that's agreat place to um start wrapping
up.
Can you maybe justcontextualize what are you
really excited about?
Um, you know, I'm looking atyou're, at this incredible
institution.
You're, uh, I think, serving areal need in terms of, like, the
gaps that that you, you arefilling in terms of talent and
(34:46):
real workforce needs in that, inthat sector of the country.
But what are you really excitedabout when it comes to the
broader educational landscapeand your contribution to it?
Speaker 2 (35:26):
Yeah, you know, as a first-generation student, it's
never left me that how fortunateI was and am to have in higher
education is to be of service toour communities, to our state,
to the country, to the globe.
And being of service means tounderstand how you can bring
expertise, resources and thepower of our faculty and our
staff to solve a reallysignificant need in our
(35:46):
community.
And so the mission and visionhere at Pacific Northwest
University is about serving themedically underserved and rural
populations, and that it reallyis speaks to, yes, that's why
higher education exists, that'swhy we bring together amazing
faculty and staff to really dothat and to make a difference in
(36:11):
our communities.
And so I think again that youknow.
The thing that I'm so gratefulfor is that leadership positions
are always about bridging andmaking sure that we're doing
everything we can to facilitateand live into that mission, and
that's really, I think, whatpresidents do, what leaders do.
So where can we build a bridge?
What do we need to get to liveinto that mission and vision?
(36:34):
As we said earlier, it can'tjust be a slogan.
We have to actually figure outand, as leaders, figure out what
we need to do to make sure thatthe I guess I'll say the
sidewalks have been poured sothat we can live into what we
said.
That is our mission and vision,I know I mean it is challenging
(36:55):
times to be in higher education,as you said earlier.
All the things coming at usfrom do you even need a degree
any longer, you know?
Sort of that lack ofunderstanding of the value of
higher education, to thecompetition, to all of that.
But it's the best time to be inhigher education, too, because
we need leaders that that canreally wade into that and help
(37:17):
our campuses find their waythrough through all of this, uh
up, this upheaval in highereducation and do what we are
called to do, which is make adifference in the lives of our
students and our communities.
So challenging, always Exciting, absolutely yeah challenging,
(37:38):
always, yeah, exciting.
Speaker 1 (37:40):
I love that.
Well, thank you, this has beenawesome Well thank you.
Speaker 2 (37:44):
This has been awesome .
Well, thank you.
I really enjoyed connecting.
Thank you for the conversationand I'm sorry about the
technology issues, but thanksagain and thanks for
contributing to helping us allbe better.
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