Episode 12: Hello Charlotte EP2

For another intermezzo game, we discuss Etheraine's next game, Hello Charlotte episode 2.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
So for this week we are playing Hello Charlotte episode 2 as our
inter mezzo game between Acts 1 and 2 of Boulders Gate 3.
It is subtitled Requiem EthernumDale, which is Latin for eternal
rest. God released in 2016.
Again solo developed by Ethernet.

(00:22):
Random Estonian chick who God knows what they're actually like
as a human. This game was kind of meant to
more concretely hammer home someof the ideas in Episode 1.
So where Episode 1 is kind of a rough draft proof of concept
thing, episode 2 is where I was told the series really kind of

(00:45):
like tries to lean into its identity.
So there's more Polish, there's more weirdness, there's more
hello Charlotte shit. And that's my version of Wing in
it. So let's see.
Right off the bat, let me pose aquestion to you guys.
Would you rather live in Charlotte's house or would you

(01:08):
rather live in the world of 1000X?
Resist. I mean, at least if I'm in the
world of Thousand X Resist, there's a happy ending.
Right, I have a lot of pussy. I mean like Cyborg pussy doesn't
even work. Only one way to find out.

(01:30):
I can tell you more pussy there than there is in Charlotte's
house. If it works with a flashlight,
it can work on the sideboard. Do they ever really go into like
the dynamics of like how those clones are created?
Like is there a lot of metal in there?
Like am I going to chafe really bad?
Seems like it's mostly like physical matter.
Yeah, I mean, we saw under the clone's face and saw like sinew.

(01:53):
Right, as far as we know, they have functional vaginas.
All right, well, you know what, I guess that is kind of the the
tipping point for me to also saywe should all live in 1000X
resist. Yeah.
I want to ask. The question.
Is Charlotte like in high school?

(02:14):
Presumably given most of this game takes place in a school.
There is a high character. As a what character?
A Jow character. I hope you're not talking about
Andre. Dude.
Andre is. Andre is way cooler than Jow.
She fucking has a one hit. I didn't.

(02:34):
Mail. I was.
I mean, I personally like both characters.
Anyway, let's jump into gameplay.
It's it's there. It exists.
Maybe I think like as gameplay goes it feels more polished than
Episode 1, but that's because there's less there somehow.

(02:57):
Yeah. I feel like the the like the
worst I have to say about the gameplay is reserved for your
second question. But the stuff outside of the
second question I felt was better than the first game at
least. Like the frustrating like the
the like frustrating but not challenging, just annoying.

(03:20):
Semi platforming wasn't really there anymore so that was nice.
I like that. No.
Stupid ass game. Overs because you interacted
with like a card on the ground. Well, there was 1.
Yeah, well, that's that's just. There was one that made me lose
like 15 minutes of time because I didn't fucking learn my lesson
from. The first is it not the
principal's office 1. Yeah, it's that one.

(03:41):
Oh OK, that's the only one I even know of that I could think
of. Yeah, this game got me in a real
habit of like saving very frequently.
I got I got very fast at going Xdown arrow ZZ.
Yeah, I mean I do accept it on the controller, but same
difference. I mean, there's the other one
where you like, fucking kill yourself with C, but that's
like, you know, it's an ending. So I guess I don't know if it

(04:02):
counts. I mean there was AI thought
there was another one. There are, there are, There are
more. I just never saw them because
the only way to get them is to fail at the puzzles, which I
didn't do because I used the gun.
But if you fail, they're too puzzled.
And if you fail them, you there's a bad end after each of
them because you. I thought the puzzles were a

(04:24):
little better too. Not by a lot, but a little
better. I agree.
I have maybe a hot take there. I actually like the puzzles in
the first game better, but only because I thought conceptually
the puzzles in the first game were better.
It was just that their executionwas total dog shit in this game.

(04:45):
In this game, I I felt like the puzzles were significantly less
interesting, but the execution was a little better.
Yeah, I have a question. Since it is gameplay, was there
an actual purpose to the combat?Like I'm just genuinely curious.
Absolutely. Not and I and I just heard,
Yeah, you, you're saying what I was kind of thinking.
I mean, the point that it's conveying is more of like a

(05:06):
narrative tone one than anythingelse.
There's no gameplay purpose. It's because this was made in
2016 and that would have been a cool idea back then, but
nowadays it's like it's not coolat all.
I guess real quick another thingjust before I forget is that
Sprint being bound to the same button?
Yep, give dialogue is one of theworst thing ever.
Fucking. In a video.

(05:26):
Much. Dialogue at the beginning of the
game because of that. God I forgot about that.
I forgot to put that in my notessomewhere.
Fuck that drove me absolutely nuts.
There was a Sprint button. Yeah, there's a Sprint button.
There's a Sprint button that is also the same button to skip
through dialogue extremely quickly.
It's normally not a problem except that there's just like

(05:48):
very few times where you hit a hit a trigger that is not
something like a wall or a door and you skip like 3 dialogues
and you don't know if it was important.
It was just like superfluous bullshit.
And it's just like did I say recently?
Is it worth reloading just to read like 3 dialogues?
I mean, a good Steam feature forthat is if you have Steam

(06:08):
recording on, you could just go to the Steam overlay and then
look at it like frame by frame basically.
So you'll be. Able to oh, that's a lot of
fucking work. I'm not doing that.
Yeah, I know. I I have it on and I didn't do
it every time I skip the dialogue.
I was like, well, it's gone to history if you're going to
design that, yeah. I don't know most of what I want
to say about game plays and the question I just outside of that
stuff. I felt like it was mildly better
than the last episode, but stillnot.

(06:29):
Great, that's also what I wrote in my notes.
I was hoping that episode 2 would be more of an evolution of
what episode 1 was, but it was mostly.
It felt like it was just mostly the same but polished and less
tedium because it didn't have bullshit like the TV world.
I don't. Think it was most of the same.
I do agree that it was more polished, but I think that it

(06:51):
was it's more character focused obviously than more like.
Yeah, I guess. Yeah, I guess I was talking
strictly of like game play in the way that you interact with
the game and how you control thecharacter and stuff and the way
that the inventory worked and all that, which was like exactly
the same as the first game, basically.
I. Wouldn't even say it's more
polished, I would say it's the same.

(07:12):
Yeah, that's it's. The same and you, but you didn't
have to do tedious horse shit like try to dodge things with
fucked up hit boxes. Yeah, I mean, I I think that
counts as polished me because I feel like it shaved a lot of the
rough edges off from the first game by just not including.
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I agree.

(07:33):
I got a question for you guys inthat.
Like, do you think that if the game had like disturbing macabre
mini games like like for self harm with Charlotte or like
shaking Vincent at the end during like the the table, like
having a table during the ending, you think that would
have been like a sick thing to do?
Or do you think it would have been like too much or like too
fucked up? My opinion, I I guess, I don't

(07:58):
know, I might have flushed this out a little bit, but I don't
feel like this game treats that stuff with enough seriousness to
be doing stuff like that. But in terms of like the tone
that it's setting, I guess that would be kind of cool, yeah.
I wouldn't agree that it doesn'ttake that stuff seriously.
I would. I just think, I think it it

(08:20):
deals with a lot of that stuff very clumsily.
It's not that it's not serious, it's just clumsy.
Yeah, it's written by a teenage girl.
Yeah, very much like Tumblr esque.
Yeah. Yeah, pretty much, yeah.
Like I I given how it's treated in the rest of the game, I

(08:40):
wouldn't want something like that added.
I mean I I mostly have thought of this question for Ben because
I know Ben hates mini games. Sorry I didn't catch the
question because I was distracted by this research that
I was doing on the side related to Ethan Raine and her her like
library of work. So basically like if if for like

(09:04):
the self harm segments, if therewas like disturbing macabre mini
games in it, like how would thathave affected your experience?
Like if you basically had to like commit the self harm via
like gameplay mechanics. OK, I see what you're saying.
I don't think it would bother meat all.
And I kind of talked about like,I mean, it's technically like
art and UI, but it's also related to a question that was

(09:27):
asked in Episode 1. So I guess I want to revisit it.
It was, it was something about like if the art or like the
visuals could disturb me or if they did disturb me.
And I think that when I played through episode 2 this time
around, I kept that question in mind.
I was just, I was just paid attention to like the usually
like the full screen arts of like the more disturbing

(09:49):
sections and seeing if they would ever bother me.
But maybe me being vigilant about that made made them extra
not bother me. You know what I mean.
So I guess the answer to your question is no, I don't think it
would. It would have changed anything
for me. It wouldn't have upset me or
bothered me. I think if there was something

(10:09):
like a little bit less straightforward like that, like,
I don't know, like a mini game where you reach your hand into
like a Halloween Jack O Lantern like thing full of candy and you
find out later you did not get candy, but it was actually like
someone's fucking intestines or like something like that.
You know, where it's like it's not like graphic with it, but
there's like that it it, you know, it's again dealing with

(10:31):
that contrast between the reality of what's happening and
what she's actually seeing. Something from those ones I
think would be cool. Yeah.
And another thing that I always have to keep in mind is that I
haven't really played a lot of RPG Maker games.
I know about them, but like I don't, I don't haven't really
like experienced a lot of them other than like Undertale
really. So I don't know like what kind

(10:51):
of like the standard is for fidelity and stuff like that.
For the record, Undertale's gamemaker.
Yeah, yeah, I know it's Game Maker.
Yeah, it's true. But it it looks.
The more aesthetic. Yeah, yeah, I guess that's what
I meant is like it looks like anRPG Maker.
Game. True.
I mean, Game Maker is basically just RPG Maker but like a little
more high class. It's almost the same thing,

(11:12):
yeah. Yeah, that's what I was just
wondering because like going back to like the Episode 1 Tash,
it, it was I think specifically about the visuals and her style
didn't change and thus my reaction to the disturbing
content hasn't changed. I guess to summarize, I'm not
sure if that is directly answering your question or not,

(11:34):
because I'm not sure which you meant by like so far, because I
guess I'm not sure what section of this game that refers to
exactly. So basically it's a moment in
the like the bathroom where either I think she cuts herself
and if not, like she alludes to it.
And kind of my idea for how it would be implemented would be
like you fight spiders or something and then you find out

(11:56):
that like you were cutting your arms instead.
OK. I think that the schizophrenia
thing. I think that this game
definitely like goes to lengths to like elude to self harm.
I mean like there's the picture at some point of like her
holding her arms out and there'slike a bunch of flower blooms

(12:17):
and shit. Yeah, and I think the character
specifically, like mentions likecuts on her arms, right?
Maybe and her herself. Oh yeah.
Henry like has a box cutter thatshe pulls out in some of like
her sprites so. Yeah.
I guess my take on your question, though, Jordan, is I
would have liked if there was like something there to like

(12:38):
justify its existence as a game.I mean, I know that we've, we've
talked about this time and time and time and time and time of
fucking game. But this, I think, was like one
of the first games where I felt solidly in the this should have
just been a visual novel camp. Yeah, yeah.
Oh yeah. I have to apologize.
That was so high. I just realized what your
question really was. I would have enjoyed literally

(12:59):
anything that would have made this thing more I'm.
Sorry, a lot of yeah, like a lotof what I want to say in
relation to that is just relatedto the answer I have to the
second question. But like, yeah, it's just kind
of splitting the difference between being a game, being
visual novel, and I did not likeit for that reason.
Yeah, I actually wrote that in my notes.
But I, I want I didn't talk about it because the stuff that

(13:23):
I was researching on the side, Iwas trying to like make this
whole thing about like what I assumed Etherain's attention
were. But instead, like the only part
of it that can be salvage is revisiting Seth's question from
like a previous episode where you're talking about whether or
not X game would be better as a visual novel.
And while I think Episode 2 justifies itself well enough to

(13:45):
be an RPG Maker game still, it does kind of stretch it to the
point where I actually went to her HIO and I saw that the last
game she made wasn't in RPG Maker was in this thing called
Bitsy, which I'd never heard of until today.
But AI overview says that is specifically designed for users

(14:06):
with minimal or no programming experience.
It is a web-based game making tool that runs entirely in your
browser and games can be createdfrom start to finish within its
user friendly interface. And the game in question is
called Yeah, solvent Service. So like, I was curious if she
was even feeling maybe that she was like plateauing with RPG

(14:29):
Maker and just wanted to try something new maybe.
But then that got thrown out thewindow 'cause then I looked up
her Twitter and she's talking about in 2025 maybe like a game
that she's working on that I think is RPG Maker or AT.
Least specifically. She says she wants to make
things that she likes, which includes writing stories and

(14:51):
making explorable games with turn based combat.
That's what that I think. Those are her words exactly.
Yeah, and the DLC for Hello Charlotte Three.
It literally is a visual novel. There's no, I don't know if it's
like a Renpai game or whatever, but it is like part and parcel
an actual visual novel game rather than RPG Maker.

(15:12):
It's also like super short. I think it's like 45 minutes
long or something, but. Yeah, I for some reason I didn't
think about looking up episode 3.
And I think the reason why is because I didn't know if we were
going to be playing it or not. And I didn't want to like,
accidentally spoil myself. But today I learned it's a
visual novel. No, no, no Episode.
Yeah, the DLC. Yeah, there's like a spin off

(15:33):
sequel for Episode 3 and that's a visual novel.
So is there another episode 3 that's like episode 3 proper?
Yeah, it's. Called.
Childhoods and it's also on Steam.
It's 4 bucks. Gotcha.
And it actually looks like the most game out of all the games
that she's made, even like the two newer ones.
Shit, I might just have to like,throw away everything I wrote
about this game. But I say most games.

(15:55):
I mean, it's the context. We have.
The best like art that of Mr. Vayner's Salva service, one that
you mentioned actually looks like a game.
Yeah, I will say like, even though like I I did like the art
in the first game, the jump fromthe first game to this game is
fucking crazy. Like there are so many panels
and like full screen art momentsin this game that looks so

(16:17):
fucking good. Yeah.
Yeah, I was surprised that just the number of additions of
things like that, like even like, like one big thing is
instead of just like the straight up character portraits,
there's the entire like visual novel style pop ups that look
really good. I really like that edition.
And yeah, I mean, all of the panels that she had that were

(16:40):
great. Yes, so.
I can also mean what you posted like that, yeah.
Like again, as the background, just to like reiterate this,
after I played through the firstgame, I was like, that was OK, I
guess I'll try the second one. And I played the second one for
like 40 minutes. And there's like a few pieces of
art that you get in there that made me like, sit down and go,
all right, we got to play this for your fucking Tash because I

(17:00):
thought they looked so fucking sweet.
So, yeah, the, the, the jump is like noticeable.
So I'd be curious to see if thatcarries over into the third game
too. Yeah, I mean, just from the same
4 page, the third game looks like it has even better art than
this one. That's good.

(17:21):
And it's like the art itself isn't even like the Super high
fidelity, like super fucking like like detailed thing.
I think she just does a really good job of creating, like,
emotive, like set pieces, which is, I mean, really what this
whole game really is. Yeah.

(17:41):
There was 1. Thing like a creative.
Brain. Yeah, and there was one thing
that was different about Episode1 and Episode 2 that I was
wondering if anyone had more insight in.
So, so you'd have access to thatitem called the Book of Truth.
And it's kind of like a allure encyclopedia for the game.
And I remember 'cause I saw Episode 2 first because I

(18:03):
accidentally played Episode 2 first.
And I remember seeing the book of Truth and what was in it.
And then I remember looking at episode 1 and I remember that it
had similar information, but they were very different
because, and I'm just going to paste this link real quick.
Like I was wondering if, I mean,I assume it has something to do

(18:28):
with Charlotte, but I was wondering why her book of truth
in episode 1 was so like sophisticated compared to
episode 2 where it's more of like a childish sketchbook And
maybe as it's a reflection of her state of mind maybe.
But that's just like I guess surface of it.
Maybe it is that simple, I don'tknow.

(18:52):
Yeah, you know what? I didn't even bother to like
compare the two, but you're definitely right.
Yeah, I don't. I'm not sure if there's a design
reason behind it. I think this might be teenage
girl syndrome. Yeah, maybe in the way she
wanted to draw it at that exact moment that.
Exactly. Yeah, that's kind of what I'm
thinking. I don't, I don't think there was
a rhyme or reason to it. I think it was just what she

(19:13):
wanted to draw at that point. Yeah.
I mean, like the first one is like like pen ink work kind of
things, right? And the second one is like
colored pencil kind of work. So I think it literally might
just be like, I got these cool colored pencils to draw, let's
do some drawings. Yeah, I didn't even think about
pointing out the obvious in thatEpisode 2 is coloured and the

(19:36):
other one is, yeah, monochrome. Yeah, so that was, I figured we
could just segue out of game plan unless you guys have
anything to say 'cause I was bizarre to say.
I thought we were already in our.
UI yeah, no, I. Mean no, no, no, Yeah.
What we're talking? About yeah, I was just making
that like fully known, but yeah,I felt like in terms of like the

(19:58):
arc UI, music, everything, everything was better than the
first game like in some cases byleaps and bounds, like the music
I thought was way. Better.
Oh yeah. I definitely.
Want to mention the music? The environments for me were
much better and I think that's where, at least from my
perspective, that's where like most of the polishing
improvements were, were to be environments.

(20:19):
Yeah. See, I have AI have a like
ambivalent take on that, I guess, which is that # for
pound, I think the second game has better like environmental
art, but I think the peaks of the first game are way higher.
And I think some of that is maybe just that the second game
has a lot fewer environments, like way fewer.

(20:41):
You just go to less places and see less shit around.
Like in the world. But that's definitely true.
But something that kind of surprised me is there, there's a
couple areas you only go to likeonce that I thought looked
really good. Like the when you go to school
for the first time and you can'tuse the word cube and you're
walking through that section andit's all the like giant like

(21:01):
legs and feet behind you. That entire environment looked
great, but you only go there once.
Yeah, I actually love that part.That's a really really good like
environmental art asset IMO. Yeah, I feel like this game de
emphasize the environments because I think the first game
that's kind of like almost what felt like the focal point in
this game felt more just like onlike character development and

(21:23):
focuses on like the character shots.
Yeah, I agree. But no bounds were made towards
accessibility that I'm aware of,so yeah, still bad.
I would say the same thing. It's literally the same thing.
It's the same issue, yeah. Yeah, absolutely.
No, no improvement in that regard.

(21:43):
Which is it's kind of surprisingstill, but you know, whatever.
One thing I will say is that theart is it was good enough that
it made me actually do the combat because I noticed that
sometimes you got full art as drops and that's really old

(22:04):
reason I did it. I don't know if I got them all,
but yeah. Was that maybe?
Was that literally the only purpose of the combat was to
collect the art? I don't know that there were
drops. Kind of sounds like it.
Yeah, I mean, to me the combat was like I interacted with it
the first couple times and then I just clicked escape every time

(22:25):
after that, aside from when I had Henri in my party.
Yeah, one shot those bitches. Fucking one shot move being
called blackmail is awesome. Wait, I I hardly even read that
shit. I should have.
I should have paid more attention.
All I did was just press A over and over again until the battle
was over. Yeah and every single yeah, that

(22:47):
was the exact same for me every time I was in comments.
Just enter, enter, enter, enter,enter, enter, enter.
I didn't even know that I had party members.
Maybe I just like RNG Ed and didn't get combat when I had.
Party members, but you only have, you only have a party
member like one time and it's very brief.
Yeah, that's funny. I didn't even know but the the

(23:12):
the combat was definitely just enter enter enter.
For ZZZ for non plebs. You guys just wanna jump to the
narrative. Yeah, I don't think I really
have anything. Else, yeah, I didn't really have
much else to say about the art in UX.
It's kind of like a rehash of the first game.
Exactly. Yeah, like I, I feel like I just
have, like there's a reason I didn't say much in the channel.

(23:33):
I just don't have a lot to say about this game because it would
just be my feelings from the first game just modified
slightly in different areas, butit's not doing a whole lot
different from the first game and what it is doing different I
didn't really like like the combat.
I mean, I think that the narrative is like different
enough that it's like, I mean, this is like the meat and

(23:57):
potatoes section of the game, I guess.
And it is. It's definitely very, very, very
fucking different from the firstgame, at least in the way it's
like presented to you, the player.
Yeah, I felt like it was a lot more focused and a lot a lot
more character focused as you guys would say.
Like even though there's there are some things that I felt like

(24:18):
it definitely took a back seat. It's nothing like a more
character driven story, but it'sstill kind of like amateur hour
in terms of like the beats that happened because like that bitch
killing herself in the beginningdid nothing to anything.
Yeah, like one thing. So I actually liked the

(24:39):
narratives in the first game waymore than the second game.
I don't know if that's like a hot take, but what I liked so
much about the first game is something that I talked about a
lot when we were talking about that game, which is like the
layers of abstraction in that game.
And like it fucking oozed from every orifice in that game.

(25:00):
Like the visuals, the dialogue, the characters, like they're all
of these like metaphorical backdrops that kind of served as
like its own bit of complex narrative.
But I felt like this game was way more like, how do I want to
put it, young millennial or older Gen.

(25:20):
Z on Tumblr angle like is, is really how you feel about it.
And I felt like, even though like there were like, like
Heather Ankin write like, let's,let's not get it twisted.
You can definitely write. And this is definitely something
that was produced by someone whois like younger.
But so much of the story I felt like was so on the nose when

(25:44):
nothing else is on the nose. Cause like one of my first but
one of my favorite sections fromthe first game is the tale of
the ink Princess. I don't know if you guys like
bothered reading that whole thing, but it's the way that she
was like explaining the themes of like what that game was

(26:04):
supposed to be about was throughthose like 1920s silent film
intertidal cards or whatever. And that was how you were meant
to like suss out that, OK, this game is about abuse and trauma
and isolation and like all this other shit, it didn't need to
like beat you over the head thatthat's what it was about.
Because if you just interface with that tale of the ink

(26:27):
Princess and like kind of let itmollify in your brain a little
bit, you would like come out of it like, OK, I get it.
Whereas this game just constantly is just bludgeoning
you with anxiety pills, socialization anxiety, like all
this other shit. It's like, I get it.
You don't have to tell me so many times.
I get it. Yeah, like my my feeling is that

(26:50):
this game overall felt way more cohesive.
And what I mean by that is that like maybe she took some
feedback from the first game or she like looked a little bit
more into game theory or whatever the hell and was like
able to kind of bring everythingcloser together.
But by doing so, definitely reduce the complexity of
everything, including the narrative.
And I absolutely agree with the last point you made because I

(27:14):
don't know, I just felt like I had nothing to actually think
about by the end of the game. Like at least with the first
game, it, it, you know, ends with that the cool like Pithian
sequence with the TV and that's got something to chew on.
But it it feels like even thougheverything is so incredibly
abstracted in this game, I stillam just left with, I guess maybe

(27:35):
it's a question for you guys. I don't know if I'm just
completely uninterested in the narrative or if it's actually
just not giving me anything to think about.
I think it's just did you like the characters or not 'cause
it's not like it's really tryingto give you something to think
about as much as it is trying tolike show the relationships with
Charlotte and their classmates. I think the the the first game

(27:55):
gives you a lot to think about. I thought like, that's what I
that's one of the things that I liked about the first game where
is yeah, I would agree. This was much more of like a
like focused effort. On Yeah.
Who Charlotte is as etheriance like self insert character
whatever kind of shit. Yeah, I'm not sure if this is a
weird take that just kind of like, kind of like illustrates

(28:18):
me as a weird person. But like, the only time I ever
felt anything in episode 2 was the full screen art of Andre
tearing up in the endings. Like depending on like the
endings you chose. Like that one frame is the only
time where I like felt like literally anything.
I didn't really actually care about child literacy at all to
be honest. Yeah, no, like I, I, I'm going

(28:40):
to be honest, feel the same way.And obviously we're kind of
touching on question one here, so maybe we'll just fucking talk
about it. But I've read so many people who
are talking about how like this game changed my life.
I was sobbing by the end of thisgame and I just felt like Ben
playing Expedition 33 where I was just like, what are you

(29:01):
fucking talking about? Like I like, I get it.
Like none of this went over my head.
Like Charlotte is a high school student who's isolated and
bullied and mentally extremely unwell, and she finds a lifeline
in Vincent slash C to like kind of help with her low self esteem

(29:23):
to or at least give her like an anchor.
And it all kind of gets strippedaway from her at the end.
But it's like it it didn't earn it, it, it, it didn't earn, it
is, I guess, the main crux. Yeah.
And also wanted to like highlight something that you
said in the last section where you were talking about the
environments of the first game. There's like high points.

(29:44):
And I agree with that. And it also ties in with that
narrative beat that Seth talked about earlier with the the
Pythian dying in the first game with the TV like that section in
the the slaughterland section that's like uses a lot of orange
and negative space. Like those were way that entire
part of the game was way more memorable to me than the entire

(30:05):
ending sequence with the trial and all that in this game.
I just, I, I thought it was like, I thought the endings were
like cool and novel, but they were just cool events that
involved the characters that I don't really care about.
Yeah, I mean, that's another thing about the environments
too. I think you're kind of talking
narrative. But even with just the
environments, the only like areathat I actually remember in this

(30:29):
game as being interesting was that one I mentioned with all
the feet in the background or whatever.
But like, the school was completely boring to me.
I didn't think that the garden, even though it was like a little
bit more aesthetically different, like it didn't stand
out. None of the like stuff when
you're walking out of the sea before you're given an option to

(30:50):
kill yourselves or whatever. Like that stuff.
Again, it's like it's aesthetically different, but
it's just not standing out to meas cool or good or interesting
like the ending section that you're talking about.
Yeah, You know, it's interestingbecause it's like now that I'm
sitting here thinking about it, it's like it seemed like the one

(31:12):
place where she like she being either in like really like
rained it in and didn't like pile on A lot of like weird
abstract shit is in the school, like the garden.
Like like like sure, in terms ofthe aesthetics, it looks
different, but it's it's much more minimalist than like
anything, which for being the school of a anxious

(31:35):
schizophrenic teenage girl, seems like it would.
It's like weird for that to be the choice.
Yeah, like I. I don't know if.
I I think I think this like the the house felt more
aesthetically complex than the school and it feels like it
should be reversed for what those two things are supposed to
represent. I don't know if it should be.

(31:57):
Prefers, but they should definitely both be crazy.
Especially it's it's a schizophrenic chick who's not on
our pills. Well, because like the house, at
least in part, is supposed to represent like kind of ignorance
of reality or, or like how do I say it?
Like like a like a safe place. You know, all our friends are

(32:18):
there. They don't backstab you or
anything like that. Nothing crazy happens there.
Like that's the safe place. You don't need like crazy
fucking flesh monsters all over the place like you did in the
first game. Because like that anxiety is
coming from the school. This.
Time. Yeah, that's kind of like that's
where I'm at with the twos. Like the houses are safe place
where she's got all of these like wacky friends who like

(32:41):
actually treat her super well. Like, even though you get like
the back story of how they barged in or whatever, whatever
the fuck. But when she goes to schools
when like shit goes crazy. But like, the actual like
visuals behind that don't reallyseem to coalesce with that.
Yeah. And I like, yeah, I, I still

(33:04):
just kind of made it from like the kind of narrative
perspective too, of like, I don't feel like those areas are
really conveying much to me froma tone perspective.
In the school. Like for as aesthetically unique
as the garden is, for example, like with the pink background
and everything, there's just nothing to really chew on there

(33:27):
that is evoking garden to me or.Whatever.
Yeah. I mean, it's yeah.
Go ahead, George. I was just saying, I think, I
think that just goes into what we already said of like the
well, at least for me, I think the environment's a flatter in
this game than they are in the first game.
I don't know what that's by design or oversight or I I think
really she was trying to tell a more traditional story in this

(33:48):
and which I think that she did. But I think she also lost a lot
of like, interesting things thatshe did in the first game by
trying to go the more conventional route.
Yeah. Yeah.
And to me it's weird because I feel like it was a very
intentional choice because there's still like plenty of
fucking weirdness, right? Like anytime you're outside of
the school, there's a lot of weird shit.

(34:09):
Like when you go off on your fucking little adventure with
Vincent, like you go through those like city streets and like
you talk to fucking cockroaches trying to sell you drugs or
whatever. Like there's still a lot of like
high strangeness. It's just like the school where
you spend the majority of the gay men is where it all kind of
like, I don't know, sits in a place of normalcy or at least

(34:34):
normal for the game anyway. Yeah.
There could definitely be like fucked up rooms and shit in
school and everything but there just isn't.
Yeah, like the extent of the like, I guess stuff that stood
out to me is being weird in those areas is like how the
teacher speaks backwards, which was just annoying and nothing

(34:54):
else like there. Then outside of that there's
just events that happen, like the Magcats dying or whatever.
So I got a question for you guys.
What do you think? What do you think of the actual
story in the game? Like outside of the metaphor and
everything else? I liked that it was easy to

(35:16):
follow for the most part. I didn't require an AI overview
for the plot synopsis. But like I also feel like I just
revised my opinion of this game entirely in like the past like 3
minutes listening to you guys talk so like.
Oh yeah, I mean, I'm not like, here's what I can say when I'm

(35:39):
playing a game that I don't like.
I'm happy when the story is easyto understand, I'll put it that
way. I think it's better than the
first game, but it's like only marginally better.
And I think it's just because I like, I think what you said
earlier, Tom, is like super valid in that both of these

(36:01):
games to me don't spend enough time like existing to be able to
get like the credit that it needs to kind of go over the
topics that it does. Like I don't think there's a lot
of gravity behind things that happened in either of these
games because they're like a oneto two hour experience and they
don't like have time to like build up or anything.
It's just kind of like. Things immediately yeah, no, I

(36:26):
agree with that like and it's it's kind of disappointing
because it's like I said I I genuinely think that she is a
talented writer. I just think that she needed to
bake the script like way more and like, and I don't know, I

(36:49):
don't want to like fucking scopecreep her own game.
But I do wish that there was like way more like dialogue to
like flesh out certain aspects of like who these people are and
like make me give more of a shitabout them.
Like, like, why was I supposed to care when this Scarlet girl
jumped off the roof and killed herself or whatever?

(37:11):
It's like, I don't even know. I don't even know who that is.
Like, sure, it's sad a high school girl jumped off the roof,
but like what? There's no stakes.
There's no stakes and it doesn'teven come back up.
So like, it's, it's literally just like a thing.
Like, yeah. But yeah, like I said, it's just

(37:31):
frustrating because I can, I cantell that she is a good writer
and knows what she's doing. It's just, I don't think it
didn't seem like she tried hard enough I guess is the way I kind
of read this game, at least fromthe perspective of the writing.
Yeah, I don't I don't want to say like she didn't try hard
enough because I mean, I don't want to just like this.

(37:52):
This could have been fucking like agonizing for her to make
right? Like I have no idea.
But I could say that it didn't felt, it didn't feel as fleshed
out compared to what I would expect from a game like this.
Because again, like Lisa is like2 years older than this game and
Lisa is like way longer. And like, I don't know, I think
I would just have invest a little more time to make a
little bit bigger of a game. And I think you can do a lot

(38:13):
more rather than just have theselike bite sized kind of like
throw away things. Yeah.
I mean, there's like a, there's like part of me wonders like if
I, if I was a fucking girl, right?
Like how would I view this story?
Like I, I am a male human being who is fucking homeschooled and

(38:34):
never went to high school. So how the fuck am I supposed to
like empathize with like the high school girl experience?
Because I don't I don't understand it at all.
Even a girl like legitimately carrying, like I'd, I'd have to
see like if this person hypothetically, like if they
exist, I want to see them because like, I don't know if I

(38:55):
could see someone like legitimately crying after
playing this game. You know what I mean?
It's some maybe I'm a maybe I'm a sociopath, and that's probably
true, but still. I know.
I just, I just think it's an extension of what Tom said.
Like you're not a 15 to 22 year old girl who was bullied in high
school and like couldn't fit in and like could potentially have.
Health issues even that I don't know if they would cry after.
Oh, absolutely they would. Absolutely they would.

(39:16):
It would be like so relatable for sure.
Like just for the fact that likeyou could be like holy fuck.
Like this feels like it bothers me or something.
Like I can definitely see how itfucks people up.
It's just I'm so far away from that kind of person.
Yeah, maybe it's just like that,plus the combination of like the
way the game looks. I don't know if I don't know,

(39:37):
maybe maybe I'm just too out there and you're right.
Yeah. And I mean, I think like what
the game is trying to say kind of like supersedes just being
like a generic like high school,awkward high school drama or
whatever. Like I forget what does what's

(39:58):
the fucking? Because like, clearly one of the
themes of this game is that like, like happiness is a
construct that some people will just never attain, like ever.
I think is a big point that thisgame is trying to say and it's
kind of hammered home by, I forget what, the Steam page.

(40:18):
Like description for this game is, but that is basically part
and parcel like what it says. So like the, the game is still
trying to do some like heavy lifting beyond just like I'm a
girl and I'm isolated and bullied and this sucks and I'm
off my pills. But I do think that that like
that there's certainly like a fucking autobiographical nature

(40:44):
to this game. Like I would be fucking shocked
if that was not the case. And I mean, I think that that
that will always alter the way that you approach someone's
work. Like for better or for worse.
Cause like intimacy breeds familiarity, familiarity breeds
contempt, and contempt can make for some fucking hacky ass

(41:05):
writing sometimes. Do we know how long the the
third game is? I think each game was is like an
hour longer than the previous one, so at least according to
how long to beat. I think like the first game is 2
this game. Is 3. 4 I think.
OK. I didn't actually check, I also

(41:25):
left it on I. Think it was like an hour and a
half, My steam says my steam says like 2.
Hours. I forgot about that.
I played 5 minutes but I restarted. 1 1/2 times my my
play time clocked in at 4 1/2 hours.
Yeah, I think I mine's 2.2 hours, but I think I spent 40
minutes trying to resize the window.

(41:46):
Is that even possible 'cause I Ithink the answer is no, right?
You can use borderless window tomake it borderless window, but I
couldn't figure out a easy way to make it just bigger without
being full screen. Yeah, that, that was my
experience. It was just windowed.
Yeah, I don't know, I and by windowed I meant like an inch.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's that's what I played in.
320 by 2. 40 even like borderless window it kind of it

(42:08):
stretched it like too much whereI was like Nah.
Yeah, I just, I ate a dummy. I launched the game, I pressed
alt enter and it was like, I never want to have to launch
this game again, so it's complain tells.
The way I did where I, it was literally looking at a
Tamagotchi window. That might affect the way that I
feel about the narrative and howit can punch me.

(42:29):
You know what I mean? I feel like.
That's. True.
That's got to be part of it, right?
I agree. I, I mean, yeah, I, I feel like
you probably should have played this game full screen
personally, just to like kind ofmore immerse yourself in what is
a very goofy ass story. It's like the the main problem

(42:49):
with playing the this game and the last game full screen is
that if like after you're done and you close the game
everything is fucked up in windows.
Yep. Yeah, that's a fucking pain in
the ass, but it's a, it's a brief pain in the ass.
Yeah, brand you can use. It's an app called Borderless
Gaming I think is what it's called and it it will make a
it'll just stretch a window to be a borderless window

(43:11):
experience. Yeah, I just googled it.
I'll try it out. If like if if you have, if you
put it on a 4K monitor, it probably looks like dog shit
because it it just stretches it so it's it would probably look
fucking terrible. To old.
Tab. And that's like the most
important thing. Yeah, exactly.
Well, what do you guys got as far as?

(43:32):
The narrative goes. I wrote As for something that.
Hasn't been said yet. I wrote decidedly postmodern,
not meta modern. Yeah, I don't know.
I think I kind of already like mentioned.
It I mean, I like that there's like a character focus a little
bit more, but like really like Felix basically doesn't exist

(43:54):
anymore and all that shit. But yeah, that's kind of going
into your question. Yeah, I guess I also.
Want to go on the record, because I think in the section
about when we started this section about narrative, I think
I said that I thought that this that Episode 2 had a better
story than one. I think I completely reversed
that opinion. So basically, I agree with

(44:16):
Thomas. It's just.
I just keep thinking. About it.
Like I keep thinking about like how much more memorable than
punchy, like the whole Pythian Oracle merging into you was in
the first game. Yeah, cool.
It was. And I'll always remember it.
And then the trial in this game was like just yes, I.
I I'm thinking I'm. Envisioning the environment in

(44:39):
my head and it's like maybe it'stoo much.
It's I wouldn't describe it as good looking.
I did like the full screen on RElike tearing up like I thought
that was good but everything else was I don't know, I just
didn't give a fuck compared to the first game.
I mean the climax. And and I.
I do feel like that. Is a double edged sword of that

(45:01):
character Fogus story is that it's easier to understand, but
if you don't care about the characters, that's that's not
good. I mean, it's, I think it's also
just a terrible. Climax too.
Go ahead. So yeah, I just feel like all of
the like reveals. Or twists or whatever, if you
want to call them that, of all the characters are all like.
They're all just very like, I don't wanna say.

(45:23):
Shocking, that's not. Exactly what I mean, But they
just kind of come out of nowherein the way that they're
presented. Like, for example, Henri kissing
Charlotte or like a bunch of thestuff with C Like I like, yeah,
there's like hints and foreshadowing for a lot of that,
I guess. But even then, when a lot of
those narrative moments happen, I just, they, they're just so

(45:45):
out of left field that I still don't care.
And there's no moments like the ending of the last game where
there's like a feeling of reverency.
It's all just I, I don't understand why I'm supposed to
care, I guess. Yeah, part of me wonders if.
Just the entire like RPG Maker. Motif is.

(46:07):
Something that just like falls super flat with me because like
even outside the scope of this game, when I think about
something like to the Moon, right?
I don't know if you guys have played that, but that's like one
of the games that everyone's always like.
Oh my God, I was a sobbing fucking mess after I played this
game, but I played that shit andI thought it was just fucking

(46:27):
boring. Like.
You sure the the, the actual story beats are like emotional,
but like I feel, and this is probably a fucking like sub 80
IQ take that I feel like RPG Maker is just not a good way to
try and tell a super emotional story.
Yeah. I have a kind of.

(46:49):
Related question, kind of broad question and I I might just like
not be thinking of anything right now, but have you guys
ever played a game that has no actual gameplay or at least like
like a similar level of gameplayas this game or the previous
episode where you like actually felt stuff?

(47:10):
I I really can't think of. I'm trying, I'm playing.
One right now it's called Fate Stay night.
Do visual novels count? Yeah, well, you said.
Similar to, not a. Gameplay and it has like almost
0, but OK, I see what you're saying.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know then.
I don't know. Yeah, I guess I'm looking for

(47:30):
like. Kind of a weird in between,
which is where this game is, where like yeah, it doesn't have
gameplay. But it's not AI.
Mean 1000X resist doesn't. Doesn't have any fucking
gameplay, but that game is. But it could, yeah.
And I was also just thinking about that.
When I was talking about like not not caring about the

(47:52):
characters makes the story like less resonant and I was
remembering how such I think yousaid you didn't like really care
for the characters, right and resist.
And that like kind of like maybecolored your, your opinion of
this the narrative. I mean I I.
Like them, I think they got. Worse as the game went on.
OK, so it's different than this than.

(48:13):
Yes than. OK, Yeah, I like them.
At the beginning, but that because I got I thought.
Fixer was cool at the beginning and then like got worse later.
So yeah, it's kind of just a question.
I'm. Thinking about where like.
All these like super emotional games that I love.
Also like they would stand alonewith their narratives, but then

(48:34):
they have really good gameplay to boot.
You know, your expedition 33 is your Last of Us, your automatas
and like even something like Undertale that like the like the
the combat, the gameplay in thatgame is actually like fucking
phenomenal, especially on like the genocide runs or like the
genocide war pacifists or both. Really.
It's all just good gameplay. And I don't know, I'm just
thinking about that where it feels like a lot of these games

(48:57):
that try to be games but aren't actually games kind of fail on
their narrative because they don't have the gameplay.
And I'm trying to put my finger on why maybe I don't.
Know, maybe they're just not because they're just too either
Finchy maybe. And that's just just the way it
goes. Yeah, either Finch is where my
head jumps. I mean the only exceptions.
To that I can think of are 1000 times resist and it's another

(49:19):
one Firewatch. Firewatch was good.
I thought Firewash was kind. Of bland it is.
It is. Definitely a little boring.
It's definitely. Not as good as 1000 times
resist. It started good and ended
terribly, isn't? What I think in that game?
Yeah, I don't want to go fast todgen, but yeah.
To to answer your question directly Seth like.
One Shot is the only game I could think of.

(49:41):
It's an RPG Maker game that's like an adventure game, not an
RPG Maker game. So you kind of just like walk
around the world. I I remember playing a little
about. That game, I thought that game
was like super puzzly. Or is it literally just walking?
I thought that game definitely. I think of it like a point and
click. It's like I, I.
Think of it like a point and click though.
There's no like gameplay really.I mean.

(50:01):
It kind of depends on the point and click like I wouldn't.
Call Excavation of Hobbs Barrow in this range of what I'm
talking about. That game's definitely just a
point and click adventure game, which it might be a little bit.
Pedantic. But I mean yeah, because one
shot isn't point and click. It's RBG maker, but like it's
really just kind of like a pointand click style in RPG maker.
Like A to BB to CC to D, bring item A to B and shit like that.

(50:25):
I think. I don't.
I don't think one shot qualifies.
For what's us talking about though, just because it's got
some, I don't think anything does that like spin on puzzles
in that game, like Kevin to fucking like drag your window
out of the way to like see a code behind it or whatever the
fuck. Like there's that.
One Shot gamifies itself significantly more than the

(50:47):
games we've been talking about, in my opinion.
I have. I haven't played one Shot so I
can't really. Like put my finger there, like
Amori is close to what I'm talking about, but the like
actual gameplay in that game is actually great.
So I was going to say, there's so much gameplay in Amori.
Yes, I think one shot is the closest thing.
Without going into like visual novel territory.

(51:13):
Well anyway I I will take this. This in 1000 times resist as
counter examples of this thoughtpattern I was going down.
But I mean, I do I do agree withyou like in.
Spirit, because I think that. I like I said.
I think RPG Maker games just like probably get in their own

(51:34):
way a little bit because like they have to do kind of weird
like immersion ruining shit at times to present like an
emotional narrative. And I feel like you are bound by
the fucking like limits of a RPGMaker text box, much in the same

(51:54):
way that like a Super Nintendo Final Fantasy game would have
been that it's. Just hard to put.
Like meat on a story that way. And I think in tandem with like
the low like word count, just straight up word count that you
can get in there alongside the way that stuff's presented.
It just kind of doesn't, it doesn't work for me.

(52:17):
I guess it's it's just the long and short of it.
Yeah, like the closest. Like it took a lot of work for
Toby Fox to do what he did in Undertale, I guess is one way of
saying that. Like he had to make those
characters fucking likable for that to actually work, I think.
That it being longer like. Significant longer helps a lot

(52:38):
in that respect, right? Yeah, true.
Yeah, big time. And also like the gameplay of
Undertale is. Really like the giant hook of
that. I think if that if that game was
like a visual novel, I think people would like it, but they
wouldn't like it as much as theydo because like the gameplay is
super unique. Yeah, because like I think one
thing I could. Say about this game is that I do
think that if she had taken thisgame and like blown it up in

(52:59):
size to where there's a lot morepros, there's a lot more areas
there's I mean even just a like teensy bit of gameplay in it.
I think this game could have gone somewhere like really
really fucking good, but the fact that it's just kind of like
this three hour bite sized thingspeaks for.
Itself, I guess it's. Starting to feel more and more

(53:24):
evident that. Having them all episodic is
starting to become a detriment. Yeah, that's true.
I wonder. What it would have been.
Like if you just jumped from like 1, like if it was just
hello, Charlotte and you just gofrom 1:00 to 2:00 to three, like
just all bam, bam, bam. Yeah.
One thing that would make a big.Difference for me, I'll know if
it would make a big difference, but like I I didn't care about

(53:46):
Felix and that made me feel likemaybe I'm just a crazy person
that's horrible. But like, even after playing the
first game, I I just, I was like, whatever, I mean.
I can I. At least like, like if you make
a character and you make him a little bit funny, a little bit
sassy, that's like enough for me, you know, to care about

(54:07):
them. I guess it doesn't go too much
deeper than that. Like I'm not going to cry when
he gets his head blown off or anything, but I can at least be
like, oh, he's not going to be giving his sassy one liners
anymore. That's too bad.
I don't know. I.
Feel like I'm missing something I guess.
Yeah, like I felt like I was disassociating.
Or something, because like, because I thought that playing

(54:29):
through episode 1 would give me like a different impression of
him because like, he was just sosignificant in the first
episode. Yeah, far more so than I gave
him credit for when I was playing through episode 2 the
first time before episode 1. But replaying episode 2 and
maybe maybe it's because I was playing through the.
Same stuff. Again, I just, I just, I felt

(54:50):
like I wasn't emotionally givingFelix any credit, the credit
that you probably deserved. And I guess maybe the fact that
I didn't means that he didn't deserve it.
Yeah, exactly. I mean, I think that just goes
on. To like the length of the game,
right. And there's you don't spend
enough time with these characters.
So like the game basically tellsyou that like, Charlotte cares
about these characters, but it never shows you.
So you don't care as a player. Yeah.
And I got like. And and let me put it.

(55:12):
This way too because. Like we're, we're saying this a
lot about how short the game is,but I think a lot of this would
get fixed if all of the characters in the house were
just one character, you know? And then you have like plenty of
time. Yeah, you just have plenty of
time to sit with that character instead of like all these
fucking different characters instead.

(55:34):
Yeah, I. I think the idea.
Is really you're supposed to only care about.
Charlotte. Targo with them.
No, I was just, I was just kind of agreeing with.
Seth, I I don't know that you could necessarily merge all of
the characters into one character, but you could
probably get pretty close. Like they they they all serve
different roles. I.
Guess is why I say that, yeah. And I think.

(55:56):
That would also be extremely tough to do.
Yeah. Because yeah, they're, they also
have different roles and they'relike, how do you even begin to
do that? That's what you're doing.
Like a 2 hour window. Like I just, I don't think it's
a accessible task. Yeah, because like, I'm not
trying to. I'm not trying.
To like rewrite. The game for her or anything.
I'm just saying I, I felt like it was stretched a bit thin

(56:16):
while also having a short game. Yeah, I I think the first game,
I think the. Reason why you guys like the
first game more because, like, it makes you think it has like,
a good climax. And this game is like more
focused on characters that you don't give a fuck about.
So that's why I kind of did everything worse in terms of
narrative. Yeah.
And I mean, I think it's kind ofa misnomer.
To say that I don't give a fuck about any of them because, I
mean, I did give a fuck about them.

(56:39):
It's just I. Didn't give a fuck about them to
the degree that the game wanted me to.
Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.
I cared enough to like follow the journey and and understand
it all that, but not enough to tear up or even even come close
to that. Not enough to feel bad that when
C doesn't wake up. On the table, you, you feel
anything? You're just like, all right,

(57:00):
that happened. Yeah, I definitely didn't care
about. I don't.
Care. I care about the people in the
House more than C Yeah, I agree with that for sure.
And maybe it's also because I use the guide, but like finding
out and maybe it's, it's definitely because I use a
guide. And I saw that there were
multiple endings. So like when I was going through
the 1st ending, like I was thinking mostly about how I was

(57:20):
going to have to like reload to get to the next ending that I
didn't. I maybe didn't like give it all
the attention it deserved, but it was just text and images goes
back to like the RPG Maker thing.
Yeah, for the record, I really don't think you needed.
A guide for this game? Yeah, for sure.
Because like. Yeah.

(57:41):
There's all I really, I didn't even need it for the puzzles.
I was just too lazy to do the puzzles.
But yeah, for the rest of it, there were, there were no
puzzles. You just kind of just do what
you're told. Basically just hold W.
Well I guess. If you guys want to, we can move
on to the questions, but I guessI would summarize my thoughts on

(58:04):
the narrative that I actually found it really frustrating
because like, I felt like it wasright there, like right there
with something that could have been like a really profoundly
effective narrative if A was longer and B there was less like
Tumblr prose that like stripped so much narrative subtlety and

(58:26):
like diluted it effusively. With this.
Cutesy motif which works when it's sole job is to be kind of
like a mood foil, like in it's kind of ironic but sincere
postmodern kind of way. But I don't know, I feel like
there was just way too way too much subtlety stripped from the

(58:48):
game, and beating me over the head with some of the themes was
just kind of annoying. Yep, I agree.
Yeah, I agree for sure. All right, well, questions then.
I forgot to bring up the gameplay.

(59:09):
That fucking room. That's the worst design room
I've ever been in in a game. Oh yeah.
And I yeah, I. Obviously I had a different
experience that I told you aboutwhere I kind of, I passed it by
just reloading the game All literally all I did was I played
like normal how you're expected to.
Then the screen turned to black and I assumed that the intent

(59:31):
was that you were supposed to like memorize the route out.
Is that correct? Or like Nope, without being able
to see or like I don't know, maybe I don't know if it's
random or not. I would just talk.
To random people and eventually it worked OK, so I don't know
how you're supposed to actually.Do but all you did was get
pissed off closed the game reopened it loaded the save and
it yeah and it like fast forwarded me into further into

(59:53):
the story that was like the if that's how that room was that.
Would have been sick if like, yeah, you just were like, I
guess I'm stuck, I guess this isa blog.
And then you reload and then yoube forward.
I think that's a dangerous way to design A game because.
Absolutely, because like for some like me, that shit is like
a uninstall. Absolutely it is.
But. It's.
Also interesting. Yeah, that's why I don't, I

(01:00:14):
don't think it was. Intentional.
Like an official. I'm curious what you hated.
So much about that room, I felt.Like I was in that room for like
10 seconds and then I just movedon because like 2 times.
I got it to an unsolvable. State and you have to use a
fucking item in your inventory to reset the fucking room.
Well that's hilarious. That didn't happen to me at all.
I wanted to. Fucking know.
I had no idea that. There was like.

(01:00:34):
An actual. Yeah, I didn't either.
I just went around talking. To every person.
And then I was like OK, this is dumb and I'm going to try and
leave the room and then it just basically let me leave the room.
Anyway, we can go on to questions.
OK. So question #1 which we have
pretty much already covered to some degree, how do you feel

(01:00:58):
like your overall connection to the characters has evolved over
the course of the beginning of episode 1 to the end of episode
2? Ben, take us away.
I guess kind of like. Just echo that word was
mentioned earlier. I'm pretty lukewarm on them now.
Maybe I've even gone down in my connection, especially with the

(01:01:20):
Oracle, because like I didn't I didn't even realize that Frey
was the Oracle until like they literally spelled it out for a
retard like me. And but like, even then, like
all that made me think was like,I thought like the the tale of
the last Oracle was like so tragic that in episode 2, that
character suddenly just basically being a douchebag.

(01:01:43):
I was like, I don't know if I like this, You know what I mean?
Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I so I guess, yeah.
Like I asked. This question like specifically,
specifically because I didn't really feel like I like learned
anything about the characters from the first game to the

(01:02:03):
second game, which is weird because the second game took on
such a more like forward facing like approach to the characters
and their psychology and personalities and like who they
were. Like I felt like a lot of the
like metaphorical footprints that were left behind in the

(01:02:24):
first game just got filled in. Like all they did was fill in
the metaphorical footprints and like delivered it to me without
a question. And hello, Charlotte, too.
So all I really did was learn things that I already figured
out were like, affecting these characters by virtue of sort of
filling in those gaps the first time.
Like, so like, do I feel empathetic for Charlotte and

(01:02:47):
like her plight and the plight of the people around her?
Sure, obviously. But do I feel like I know her or
understand her issues or the issues of the people around her
any better? No, not really.
It didn't. Like it didn't evolve them in
any kind of way, it just it justspelled it out more for like
what's going on. Oh yeah, I agree, especially.

(01:03:10):
For a game. That's more like character
focused, like it didn't really do anything with us, especially
not the characters that you wereintroduced to in the first game.
Like it, like Ben said, you're II was more disconnected from all
the first game characters besides Charlotte's obviously.
Yeah, the one character I did come out of this game.
Liking significantly more was Aiden.

(01:03:30):
I like to Aiden a lot. Plus the guy with the deer
antlers. Yeah, the problem with having.
I don't I. Don't remember what he did in
the first game to be honest. If he was in there he was.
I mean in the second. Game all I did was he.
Could like maybe a guess or a dress or whatever, right?
Yeah. He's like super comforting.
Takes the scissors from. Your hand, Yeah.
He takes the. Scissors.

(01:03:51):
He gives you a dress, he plays. Piano with you, He's a homie.
Guess who's who's? It's the umbrella man.
It's. Supposed to be.
That's just. Like her dad?
I don't know. That's what I was.
Wondering too, I was thinking. It's I think, yeah, I think
they. I don't know who.
Said it, or if a character said it, or if it was like Charlotte
describing it. But I think there was a line of

(01:04:13):
dialogue that said that he at atsome moment resembled her
father. Yeah, I think.
I mean my take away is it's somelike abusive figure in her life
and I think it's probably meant to allude to her dad but I'm not
sure. I feel like that's kind of like

(01:04:34):
the whole, like a. Gigantic point of the game is
like, yeah, that guy's role in Charlotte's life, but I'm like,
I don't fucking know. What the fuck?
Yeah. I mean, I don't think you're
really supposed to. Know what the fuck either?
Like I mean like the ending of the game is kind of part and
personal. What do you think, Seth?

(01:04:56):
So. I have this.
Thing. And you guys can?
Push back against this if you want because there might be a
lot of counter examples that I'mnot thinking of.
I have this thing that I really hate in movies, TV's, games,
whatever. And it's when you have a good
character, as in like a character who is like the good
guy, you know, a protagonist, whatever.

(01:05:18):
And it's when the entire show, movie, game, whatever becomes
about nothing but tearing that guy the fuck down for no reason.
The moment I realized I don't like this is when I watched
Breaking Bad for the first time and what they start doing to
Jesse in the later seasons. I'm just like, this is just
torture porn. I don't need this.
There are exceptions to that. Like if if they're doing it for

(01:05:39):
like a strong, like if they're doing it to do a tear down arc
and like an anti villain kind ofthing, like I'm thinking of like
9S for example, like they tear him down so that he can kind of
beat the villain for the back half of the game or whatever
your interpretation of that is. I think you see what I what I
mean, but. It's.

(01:06:01):
Just something that I really. Don't like unless it's being
done for a really good purpose where like this bad thing
happens to this person and they bounce back up and then another
bad thing happens and they bounce back up and another thing
happens and whatever, whatever. And like where Charlotte, it
felt like my rock in episode 1 where like all this fucked up
stuff is happening, but it's notreally happening directly to her

(01:06:22):
exactly. She's just kind of like
witnessing the fucked up stuff and reacting to it.
I, I could still like empathize with her a bit in those moments,
but then in this game, I feel like it just pivots so hard away
from that where she just turns into that torture porn
exhibition that I'm talking about.
And it's just like, oh, she accidentally killed the mad

(01:06:43):
cats. Oh, her fucking best new friend
or whatever is committing suicide and wants to commit
suicide with her. Oh, it's just like bad thing
after bad thing after bad thing.And I, you have to have a strong
purpose if you're going to do that.
And I don't feel like this game did that.
And because of that, I just thatlike connection that I had with
Charlotte, I feel like was completely obliterated from the

(01:07:06):
first game, man, I. Could not.
Disagree more and but there's a specific reason as to why I
disagree and that is I fucking Ilove stories where they take a

(01:07:27):
protagonist or like just kind ofa generally good human being and
they just totally deconstruct them via suffering and you asked
for examples. Here's one for you right here.
Fucking Evangelion is a perfect example of that, where they
literally forced this 14 year old child into to be a fucking

(01:07:48):
child soldier basically against his will and it obliterates him
psychologically, socially, emotionally, etcetera, etcetera,
etcetera. But I think the key thing to
think about in stories like that, because I can think of
like 10 more examples of shit that I like that does the same
thing. Like fucking.

(01:08:09):
Dancer in the Dark. It's a great movie, but.
Come and see, great movie regardless though.
I think one of the important things that stories like that do
is they leave you with a sense of like, hope at the end.
So it's not just like this person getting like completely

(01:08:30):
psychologically obliterated, like fucking Job from the Bible
or whatever. But it leaves you with like a
little nugget at the end to be like, look, all of this should
happen to this person, but it's gonna be OK.
Like they'll, they'll, they'll come back from it.
And I think that that is a very important thing, a very
important component. To stories like.
That, and I am willing to grant this game kind of the benefit of

(01:08:53):
the doubt since there's an entire third act to the story.
But yeah, I mean, if the game ended, if the entire series
ended on the note that it does in this game, then then yeah,
that's no good. And I guess.
That's why I am in the. Mental state, I am right now
with the game because, you know,we haven't played the third
game. So I'm just kind of left to sit

(01:09:13):
with all of this shit she just went through for no reason.
I feel like when. We do play, I assume we are
playing Episode 3 for the Nexener Mezzo.
Is that correct? I mean, I'm going to play it
regardless if you guys. Want to do it for this or not
but OK so it's so it's yeah soonI.
Was just curious about that because if you do plan on
playing the third one, this is something that I spoiled myself

(01:09:36):
when I was doing research for this Tash.
But you know that this game has multiple endings.
But but I did get spoiled by a little bit is that there is a
Canon ending for like the Segwayfrom episode 2 to episode 3.
And if you're curious it is the grey ending.

(01:09:57):
Is that the one? Where you don't.
Vote everything. I don't.
Remember, all I know is that. It was called the grey ending
and then I didn't read more to like to like not spoil myself
further from like extra context but I all I remember are the
words grey ending then. What in God's?
Name does this have to do? We've been.

(01:10:17):
Talking about. Welcome height.
Oh no, I thought someone was talking.
About playing up to three. I mean, I was just in the sense
that. Like the, I think Seth's
criticism, I think I I was pushing back on Seth's criticism
because we are in the middle of the story, not the end, which is

(01:10:40):
how we got talking about episode3.
Yeah, my bad. You could edit all that out.
But the grey end is when you vote for Henry.
And yeah, it's when she eats everything.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love.
That which that's the funniest one to.
Pick for. Yeah, no, that's awesome.
I I like that. That's crazy.

(01:11:00):
Yeah. I mean like, yeah, like.
Having the hope at the end is definitely an important
component to the whole like torture porn exhibition that I'm
giving in. And don't get me wrong, like
this, it can be done well, like I said, with 9S for example.
But I don't know, like I said, Ijust feel like it has to be
really well done and with a verystrong purpose for it to

(01:11:20):
actually work. Yeah, and I mean, I'm going to.
Like kind of put my own foot in my mouth and say that.
I also don't think that it even needs a hopeful ending because
like, one of the things that I mentioned was Come and See,
which is a movie you should watch when you get this chance
to do so. But that is not a happy movie.
That is like the most depressing, downright fucked up

(01:11:44):
movies and it does not end happily, but it's still like
incredible. I think it's like the number one
rated movie on Letterboxed or some shit but.
I do agree that it does need. To like be treated with a deft
hand in order to not just come off as like sadistic.

(01:12:05):
But I don't I don't think that this game came off as sadistic.
I don't think it came off as sadistic, but.
I didn't. I didn't like that.
There was nothing good. That happened and.
I didn't. I also didn't like that it
wasn't as intriguing as the first one.
But yeah, I mean, clearly this game was just setting up for
what the third game is, so I can't really, like, pass
judgement on it until I experience that one.
Yeah, like, like, I guess what? I'm left asking.

(01:12:27):
Myself at the end of this game is what was all of the struggle
worth? Like what was the point of
everything she just went throughas of this episode?
And I don't have a strong answer.
And if that's the canonical ending, as my understanding is,
then it doesn't feel like there was much point.
Yeah, I mean, I would like I said, I would agree.
With that, if it weren't for thefact that I know there's a whole

(01:12:50):
other ass game, yeah. This is like a stand alone game.
This would be like the worst game ever made.
So here's another interesting. Question to posit if you if if
the first game didn't exist if this was Hello Charlotte episode
1, how was your guys feelings ofthe game have like differed
without the like context and experience of the first game and

(01:13:14):
this. Is obviously like a purely
hypothetical. But I'm curious.
Yeah, I think the the kind of each of the games have their own
like. Compartment in my head anyway.
Like they almost don't even feelconnected regardless.
So I I don't think it really would change much for me.
I don't think it would change myratings.
For either game. At all.
That's just by gut feeling. Yeah, I don't think I would

(01:13:37):
have. Significant changes in my
feeling. I think I actually would.
Have liked this game a little more.
Not a lot more, but maybe a little more.
I mean, it makes sense. Because the two.
Games kind of like completely different thoughts especially.
In the point of the writing, is that because.
You'd lacked context on what they.
Felt on what was fumble. I think so.

(01:13:59):
I think it's just because I think.
The what? The first game did really well
as something that didn't translate into this game, Yeah,
kind of left a more like sour. Taste in my.
Mouth. But if none of that context
existed, then I wouldn't have been like holding it up to that
standard exactly. Anyway, I was just, I was just

(01:14:20):
curious what you guys? Thought about that.
Let's get into a fun question, which I'm excited to hear your
guys's take on this. So how did you feel about the
way that the game conveyed combat to you?
Would the game have benefited from increasing its overall
inclusion or stakes in the game?Let's start with Seth.

(01:14:45):
There's combat in this game haha.
XD He. I mean the inclusion of combat
in this game just felt incredibly ham fisted and
unnecessary. The point that it's trying to
convey where oh, socializing is a battle.
Wow, how how fucking unique. Could have been conveyed in ways
other than I shall press enter until the game resumes, and I

(01:15:08):
can't say that the. Game would benefit.
From more than that because likeif the combat was emboldened
with more to communicate that original point or if it was
removed and similar cutscenes were added to replace it.
I would prefer both of those over what is in the game.
Because like I said before, I can't stand up when some of

(01:15:29):
these games split the difference.
Either give me a visual novel walking SIM, or give me
something with like actual meat to chew on with the gameplay.
And if the scope that you set out for your game is such that
you're not going to be able to have like complex, interesting
gameplay, then just make the visual novel and I'll enjoy it
more and I'll be happy with that.

(01:15:51):
What you got, Jordan? When you say visual.
Novels that do you mean like thestyle?
Of the visual novel or do you just mean like kind of like what
the first game would be, which is walking around in an RPG
Maker game, visual novel and walking Sims are?
Synonyms to me, even if that's what is, what is the first?
What is an RPG Maker game without RPG combat?

(01:16:12):
Is that? Does that fall into one of those
two? What is an RPG?
Maker game, I mean, isn't that? Just episode one that's what I'm
asking is that a walking SIM is?That what?
What is that to you? Yeah.
OK, hold on. I'm calling episode 1 of Walking
SIM. It's, it's like, you know, it's
got like a little bit of the like puzzly stuff that might
push it outside of that camp, but it's closed basically

(01:16:33):
visual. Novel is you don't move.
Walking SIM is. You do move, yeah, but like,
like to the. Moon is.
More of a walking sentence than a visual novel, I think.
I haven't actually put that game, but I think that's true.
Yeah, like, yeah, it's definitely not a visual.
Novel. Yeah.
The the there's the extent. Of the game playing that.

(01:16:53):
Game is like these. I can't remember what they are.
I want to call them sudoku puzzles, but it's not sudoku,
it's kind of sudoku. It's.
Close. It's sudoku ish.
OK, it's. Like pick cross ish.
Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I mean, so.
To answer the question for. Me, I think that's I mean, it

(01:17:13):
would be much better without it.I think it's just kind of an
idea where I think if you were just making like a fuck off,
never see the light of day project and you just show with
your friends, they would be like, oh, that's a cool thing.
But I mean, I think for people in their 30s who are criticizing
games every week, I think it's like an absolutely terrible
addition. I think that if you make it into
a better system like a game likeAmori did, then I think it's

(01:17:36):
it's really like engaging in cool and like really memorable
moments. But I don't think in a way that
this game did it. It was even like remotely close
to memorable other than being like, that's weird.
Yeah. Amori.
Is this game done? Right, and especially with the
combat mechanics. One day I'll play that game.
Am I playing for this? Yeah.
Maybe. The only.

(01:17:59):
Only other thing I wanted to mention.
Related to that is like, I feel like there was a point that was
trying to be conveyed with the combat, and I'm OK with that.
I just feel like if you're not, again, if you're not going to
like develop the combat into something interesting, then just
make them like side encounters or whatever.
Like, you talk to a character and something similar plays out,

(01:18:20):
but it's not the gameplay that it is in this game.
Yeah. I Yeah.
I actually I didn't. Even consider that because what
I was thinking about was like, Ididn't, I was pretty indifferent
to the combat inclusion in this game and saw it primarily as a
vehicle just to collect the art.But in that case, I was thinking

(01:18:40):
about just like it would have been better if it was like the
first game where they're in chess or this medium that you
just introduced that it didn't even think of where instead of
having treasure chest, like the NPCS could just be there.
And like the ones that are kind of jerks when you talk to them,
they begin combat. Or maybe it doesn't have to
necessarily be a conflict because it's called socializing.
So just maybe literally talking to every NPC in the game trigger

(01:19:04):
combat or something. But like there should have been
like some kind of like I felt like in this maybe by like
increased stakes of the combat because I was thinking about
that in one of the ending sequences, someone brings up
socialization specifically wherelike this person's going to
because they didn't even socialize.

(01:19:24):
I was thinking, does that mean like there's a pacifist
playthrough where you can play this whole game again without
with escaping from every combat?And does that one line say
something different? But like, I'm not going to do
that because it's this game and not Undertale, You know what I
mean? Yeah, Yeah, I.
Mean I think so like I guess this.

(01:19:46):
Just. Give like the direct answer.
I would prefer if literally anything other than the combat
was in this game. It's undercut pretty.
Much. I think most.
Of this game. I would describe is.
Undercut. Yeah, so I have.
AI have a slightly softer opinion than you guys I think
because like I do. Like the?

(01:20:08):
General idea of the combat in this game is like just to having
you in a social scenario where you have to like arbitrarily
satisfy some like goal or whatever.
And I think if this game had actually bothered to include
like actual RPG mechanics, like replete with like boss fights

(01:20:29):
and thought out random encounters and like progression
and balance and blah blah blah blah, blah, blah blah.
I think it would have served this game significantly better.
Because the way it's included inthis game is like super fucking
random and really kind of jarring.
Like every time I got into a random encounter, which I would

(01:20:50):
estimate I got into like maybe 5or 6 total throughout the game,
it was always like, oh fuck, that's a thing.
Cuz the fucking sound when you get into combat is loud as shit.
And so I agree with the sentiment that it's undercooked.
And so like when I was saying earlier that in the writing for

(01:21:11):
this game or in the script, I felt like she was not putting in
like maximum effort. I think that that goes even like
doubly so for this combat shit. I that was like an idea that she
had for like 20 minutes and spent another hour putting it in
the game and was like, all right, that's we're calling that

(01:21:31):
good. And then she drew art and that
was it. So.
Yeah, again, like I I don't wantto scope creep her game because
I don't know how long it took her to make this, but like
clearly she didn't want to spendyears doing it.
But yeah, just a little more something a little more Genesee

(01:21:54):
Quoi from the combat would have been extremely nice.
Would have would have rounded. A lot of like.
Hard edges that this game has, Yeah.
I mean, you were basically almost.
Describing like Undertale. System right of like yeah.
And having to basically navigatethe puzzle of how do I pacify
this on that? So yeah, I mean, it would be I I

(01:22:15):
just think that she's I don't, Idon't mean this.
Like harshly, but I think she's.An artist who needs to pair with
other people who make games, andI think that she would be like
an all timer. Yeah, I don't think she's a
game. Developer.
I think she's an. Artist and potentially like a Co
writer, but I don't think she's she's definitely not like a game
designer. Yeah.
I mean, I think she could. Be a writer.

(01:22:37):
I don't I I can tell from this game this is someone in their
like late teens, early 20s who wrote this thing and like
clearly, clearly has an eye for how to write.
But I do agree. OK, like in these games, like
there's definitely like. There's definitely like talent
there and everything, but it's like far away from game design.

(01:22:58):
Like there's nothing even like remotely intriguing about the
game design in either of these games so far compared to like
the art or like the some of the topics that you use trying to
convey, especially in the first.Yeah.
And I guess I'm saying like, I wish that this.
Combat like this, the entire system would have been blown out
and blown up. But given how like little
thought there is to like any of the design aspects as far as

(01:23:21):
like actual video game Capital VCapital GI have no fucking idea.
What? That end product would even look
like or if it's something I would even want because like so
the thing. Is when I asked you guys the.
Fear and hunger question is because I literally thought of
like what if that finish guy teamed up with this Estonian
chick and then they made fear and hunger 3 and I think that

(01:23:43):
would be an insane fucking game.I mean the fungor art is already
crazy I. Don't think that guy needs, I
know, but oh I mean. It's not as like abstract as
what she does though I don't think.
I think that she would like add to some of like the crazy panels
that that game has she needs to pair up with.
Logic bombs, guy. Someone who's just gameplay

(01:24:07):
only. That's funny.
Which is like systems. Only they need like a story.
To be written around it, this islike a better thing.
I think that's a bad idea to make a game, but I think you
should have the story dictate what the mechanics are.
But that's just my personal likebelief I guess.
Or like method. I mean, I agree with that for
sure. I could see it either way.

(01:24:33):
Yeah, I don't think the necessarily one.
Is the right way to do it. And the other, as long as you
get to the get across the finishline the right way regardless.
Yeah, that's fair. You do.
Yeah, like I guess you can work backwards, but yeah, I don't
want to like screw you guys too.Off topic.
No, I get what you're saying though, because I just think of.
Like I just think of like. Mimic logic or something like

(01:24:54):
that. Like, I think they need the game
first, and then you can add a story on top of that, yeah.
That's also Part 2. Due to it's like genre as well,
where there is really that requirement to be like a fucking
like Lord of the Rings. I mean, yeah.
I mean, there's, it's the age. Old like top.
Down bottom up design thing likemost souls games nowadays.

(01:25:15):
Maybe not. The originals are pretty much
always designed with gameplay mechanics in mind and then they
throw the story on top. You know, even maybe Elden Ring
might have been like that. I think the first Dark Souls
game was very top. Down or Demon Souls too, even.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, for sure.
I mean like as. They've gone like, I mean, the
gameplay of those games hasn't evolved the shit ton which

(01:25:36):
afforded the luxury of doing more bottom up.
Yeah, I mean, I could. See, I could.
See bottom up. For Eldon Ring, though, just
because it's like they probably started at all, right, guys?
We want to make this whole game,but we wanted to be fucking
huge. Where do we start, you know?
Yeah, let's get George RR. Martin Step. 1.

(01:25:58):
All right, anything else on this?
Bad boy, I didn't mean to get usoff on a tangent talking about
Matthew Ortosis by just being a pithy cunt, I mean.
I mean that it would be funny. If if she teamed up with them
though, because like imagine if like if he hired her for logic
bombs, like what would she bringto that project?
Oh my, that game. Would be called.

(01:26:20):
That game would be called, you know.
What it would be? It would.
Be like fucking Tim Fallen. Like yeah, incredible.
Like masterpieces surrounded by shit.
Her next game? Almost looks like or not next
game. The fucking Mr. Rainier solvent
service almost looks like a logic bomb style game.
Just to to be like a funny parallel.

(01:26:44):
Yeah, that is something I noticed.
When I saw like the. Like the Pacros looking thing,
It's some kind of a puzzle game.Maybe we should.
Attach this I. Don't think it's a bad idea at
some point for sure. All right, it looks like her.
Most game game. Yeah, yeah, yeah, let's.
Talk about that. After the wrap up.
Because I'm very curious about her body of work.

(01:27:05):
But all right, third question, I'm gonna warn you now.
My. Answer to this was very long and
I don't know how to distill it down, so I'm just going to skim
my notes but zoom out a bit. And broadly speaking, what does,
quote, good writing in a game mean to you?
Not it's effects like the downstream effects, like

(01:27:25):
characters that you like, a story that's intriguing or
whatever. I want to know what it is about
the actual words on the screen that make you go.
That's nice. And we'll start with Jordan.
Yeah. So I mean.
One big thing is not using like to not fluff up the words or

(01:27:46):
anything too much unless the point of the character is to be
like pretentious or like fluffy wordy.
So like kind of like keep thingsconcise and basically what when
I was thinking of this, I was thinking like Torment is the
opposite of that. We're like, there's no editing.
You just fucking rip every word that you can fucking think of it
and throw it in there. And that's that's not what I
want to want. The opposite was like vault gate
3 of like have a like a currencyof words and like all those

(01:28:10):
words matter and then pass that for like the character dialogue
itself. Like don't it don't have a every
character kind of have like one voice and have everything be
like flat and boring, kind of like give like some like
personality to like just the dialogue and everything.
I think that this game kind of lacks that.
I think every character kind of talks the same.

(01:28:31):
I think kind of in the first game they had like a little bit
more like unique voices and weirdness, especially the the
Vivia or whatever Frey and Frey are like they kind of felt
different, whereas in this game they kind of just feel the same.
What else? Yeah, and then I guess being
funny like. It's kind of like funny quirky

(01:28:53):
things, kind of like in an understand style of like kind of
just have characters say like relatable or like funny quips or
just like cleverness to the writing, which I think this game
has not enough. But yeah, I think this game
definitely. Has quirkiness.
It's I wouldn't I wouldn't say funniness necessarily.
Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I I don't think this game's
clever. I don't think there's.
Anything in this game that's clever and if you guys can think

(01:29:15):
of something. I don't know, it depends how you
define. Clever.
I guess I mean like in terms like.
Dialogue. Not really.
I guess if that's what you're talking about, yeah,
specifically like every. Single character that you talk
to in Undertale is like, what I'm comparing anything in this
game to just like, cleverness, quirking his weirdness in that
way. And like, in a charming way.

(01:29:37):
Yeah, I don't, I don't think. A character ever made.
Me laugh or smile in the way that you're what you're
describing would and to to be fair.
That is like very. Far from this game's intent as
well. So I mean, you could still have
a. Character that does that you can
still. Have some like crazy manic
character. Like, I don't, I don't think
because this game is taking serious tones that you need to

(01:29:59):
just be completely serious the whole way through.
And I think that that's why something like Expedition 33
owns, because it's fucking everything.
It's like the whole spectrum of cool shit that happens.
Yeah, sure. You got to have a sense.
Of levity. All right, Seth, all right.

(01:30:19):
I wrote a little bit for this one.
It's not going to contend with Thomas's, but at least have a
little bit to answer the question in.
A word. Experience there.
Is. A numbness that can comprise
your average day-to-day. The humdrum of work, eat, sleep,
repeat. When I'm consuming any media, be

(01:30:41):
it movies, games, music or lol cow drama.
Slop. Hot drop the slop word.
I'm looking for something to Pierce that numbness and make me
feel something. I like horror because it makes
me feel visceral disgust. I like playing Dungeons and
Dragons because I can put myselfin the shoes of the character
and try to feel what they would be feeling.
I find that having parts of my brain be activated when they

(01:31:03):
otherwise wouldn't be in the day-to-day to be I.
I find that experience to be incredibly valuable and
meaningful. It keeps me awake.
It keeps me cognizant of the fact that I care about the
subject matter. It makes me think of things in
new ways as taught by the presenter of the media.
It gets me into those different perspectives and empathies that
I just wouldn't experience otherwise.

(01:31:25):
So when I'm playing a game like Expedition 33, I mean, it's,
it's obvious that the ending is going to make me feel something
that absolute like like catastrophic feeling you have in
your heart when you pick my Elleand you realize, you know what
she does at the end of that game.
The feeling that you get at the end of Outer Wilds where it's

(01:31:46):
this like simultaneous, like heat death of the universe,
melancholy, but combined with the new sense of hope from 6.43
billion years later or whatever it is. 24.3 I don't remember,
but yeah, I just want to experience and feel things that
are unique that I wouldn't be getting otherwise in day-to-day

(01:32:09):
life. I don't have much on how that
actually relates to this game because I don't really feel like
it did. Yeah, I agree.
I got nothing to add to, a lot less to say.
Go ahead. I do have something to say it's.

(01:32:30):
Just a lot less. But at first I wanted to say
that I prefer like straightforward prose that's
just like easy to part. And I do think that is like
generally true for me. But it's not like I don't
necessarily always need like thedeveloper just to fucking put
the story in the bag. And I think a lot of like, it's
a case by case basis for me. And I think a lot of it has to
do with presentation. And I thought about presentation

(01:32:52):
specifically because in your question you talked about like
literally the actual words on the screen.
And as part of my job as AUI developer, that's something I
care about a lot. So like when it comes to like
hello Charlotte, like the way that she writes, I feel like it
fits like her visuals very it tome, it just fits like the way
that she tells her stories. Even if I didn't like this one

(01:33:15):
as much this time around, like Istill thought the actual prose
she wrote fit visually with the presentation of the game where
it's like something like Disco Elysium.
I also really like the writing and it's a lot different than
this game. And I wouldn't say that it's
like more like overly complex writing compared to Hello
Charlotte. But it matches like the way that

(01:33:37):
Disco Elysium looks. So like, I guess it's kind of
like a scale of what what words I like to.
See on the screen and. It's it's the dressing around
it. Yeah, I think you actually make.
A really good point there, whichis that the way that she wrote
this? Game is.
Very stylistically cohesive witheverything around it.

(01:34:00):
And that's that's why I keep saying that I can tell she's a
good writer because that's not easy to do.
That is a difficult fucking thing to do, especially when you
are in this like crazy wacky world of abstraction that is.
Hello, Charlotte. The fact that she does write
prose that makes sense to the tone and voice of the world,

(01:34:24):
like again, that that's, that's not an easy thing to do.
And I do think that she does an extremely fucking good job of
it. I mean, yeah, I, I think, I
think. She's just a like an amateur
writer, basically. And I think like.
Potentially in like 10 years, she could be like a Yoko Taro

(01:34:45):
type, right? Like where she's just making,
like, masterpieces. It just took a while to get
there, but yeah, no, I mean, I'll, I'll, I guess I don't.
Know I mean I'll say, I mean I'll say exactly.
One thing. Which is that like when I was in
college and I was taking my creative writing workshop
classes, like if you gave this game to me in a script, it

(01:35:07):
easily would have been like an A+ in that class.
So I'll I'll at least give her that.
So when? You guys said you don't
necessarily agree with that. What?
Do you mean? So I would agree in the sense of
like. Writing like a compelling
narrative to get me together, but I'm I'm talking and going
back to like the actual words onthe screen.
She makes the one she writes, atleast for me, like pleasant to

(01:35:30):
read and it it makes sense and it fits the world and the
characters and I think her. Prose is very good.
Like it. It is.
It's just, yeah, I agree. I don't.
I don't. Like the?
Way in which she elected to tellthe story but the way that she
wrote the story is very precise and very good I agree yeah I I

(01:35:55):
think kind of in line I. Think with some what you guys
have been saying I'd like I saidwith the visual novel stuff, I
think this game would have just been better in another medium
like that gives more breathing room for the type of stuff she's
trying to yeah yeah and I I. 100%.
Agree, because like I was sayingearlier, this is the first game
where we've had that discussion where I was thinking like, yeah,

(01:36:15):
this game should have been a visual novel.
Because I think every other timeI've disagreed, but this is the
first time where it's like, yeah, no, this definitely could
have been. And the other funny like.
Something good, not bad. Now you go fucker.
Like something I kind of noticed, Something I've kind of
noticed. Now.

(01:36:35):
Like kind of reflecting on the game now is that, but because as
you guys were saying that, I waslike, wait, are there any
moments in this game where it's not just dialogue and she's just
like describing something? And there definitely is, but I'm
realizing I kind of forgot a lotof that existed because I think
every time that happens, the character portraits go away.
And I, I don't know if that is exactly the reason, but

(01:36:56):
something about having those character portraits and then
just having something be described, even if the prose is
good, is it's going to kind of Take Me Out of the moment.
And I'm not going to like feel as strongly about what's being
described as I otherwise should have been.
I'm I'm thinking specifically oflike when you like reach down to
seize lifeless body or whatever that I think that part is

(01:37:17):
described and just, I don't know, like you.
Know what I'm saying? I agree with that.
Yeah, I think she definitely like, fucked.
Up the whole like gravity of theof all the endings for sure.
The only ending that's even likekind of cool is the Gray one.
The other two kind of suck, yeah, in my opinion.
The fucking. Shackles of.

(01:37:39):
RPG Maker and her inability to program or design games worth
shit is really holding her back.What's the?
What's the? Visual novel engine.
That everybody uses Rendell. Renpe if if that.
Did that exist in 20? 14 I'm going to say yeah, sure.
Dude. Because yeah, OK, well, I think

(01:38:00):
I think she just fucked up because I think I.
Was. I figured that would be a
timeline. Thing.
Yeah, but here's the thing. Like I, I.
Thought. Look.
And this is the thing, when I was doing that research into
like her Twitter, she explicitlysays she likes turn based
combat. I think it's something she wants
to do, even if it's kind of outside of her skill set.

(01:38:20):
Pretty funny. I wonder if the next game
actually has combat then. I'm thinking it.
Probably will because it's. It's just like she's straight up
says she likes it and she wants to do it.
She was like, it's like it was aTwitter post describing her
plans for like the next 10 years.
And it's just like, I just want to make a lot of stuff.
I want to write a lot of storiesand I want to make games that

(01:38:42):
have like JRBG exploration and turn based combat.
I'm just going to. Find it so I don't keep putting
words. In her mouth and paste it in the
channel. I mean, now's the best time.
For someone like her, because fucking Gipity can just be your
programmer so. Yeah, but I mean it's, I mean.
She is a person who clearly has a vision.

(01:39:05):
So I mean, if the vision doesn'tcoincide with how she wants to
make shit, then I don't know. I'm not going to tell her how to
how to fucking make shit. Well, I'm just saying visual
it'll help with. Programming.
All right, I'll give my She's a sick fucking.
Artist, by the way. Oh yeah.
She's I love that, but she's extremely.

(01:39:26):
Good. She's an extremely talented
artist and and writer. OK.
So here's my answer. I I.
Don't know how I'm going to likedistill this out.
I'm just going to like cut out alot of text, but if there's
anything to expand on. Just let me.
Know so cuz I have a lot to say.Here and I'm gonna.

(01:39:49):
Try and condense it down. So to me, I think writing in
video games can be comprised of a framework that's pretty
similar to writing anything of quality, with one glaring
exception or addition And so. That framework is going to be
comprised of five different things and those are earned

(01:40:11):
moments. That's pretty self-explanatory.
Resonance through relatability, rhythm and breath, integration
with the systemic elements and any kind of like subtext or
implication. And so again I can define.
Those better if you. Want me to?
But I can think of a lot of games that operate inside of

(01:40:32):
that framework well. But if I zoom in and think about
it a bit, about what specific game like does it the absolute
best? Or like what scene does it the
absolute best? It's the scene from,
coincidentally enough, Discolysium, where our

(01:40:53):
protagonist is speaking to Dolores Day, who is the Jesus
like deity figure of the world who's actually presented in a
dream as our hero's ex-wife. And so I go through very
painstaking detail in describinghow that fits inside of each
part of the framework. But suffice to say, I think

(01:41:16):
every game's pros should attemptto operate on some kind of axis
within that framework, provided it's something that they even
care about. Right?
Like obviously not every game onthe planet is going to give a
shit about like putting forth some broad sweeping narrative or
whatever, but in bringing. That.

(01:41:37):
Back around to hello Charlotte. I think where this game
struggled was with those earned moments and the subtext like
I've been saying like is it relatable?
Yes, I'm I'm going to go ahead and assume it's relatable as
someone who is very far outside the realm of someone who would
have experienced the things in this game.
But is Etherean A talented writer who has a very good sense

(01:42:00):
of rhythm? Absolutely.
Does the game integrate itself with this medium as well as an
RPG Maker game? Probably could be expected to, I
guess, but it does a really poorjob of operating inside of those
liminal spaces that don't need to be explained.

(01:42:20):
Like you're outwardly showing memy anxiety pills, bullying,
images of self harm, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
I don't need that to be filled in in the writing as well.
Like use the writing for something else.
You are showing me these pills, you're showing me people getting
bullied. You're showing me these images
of self harm. I do not need that to be
reinforced through the writing as much as it was in this game.

(01:42:42):
So like, I think in this game specifically, she could have use
the writing for something else or to explain different aspects
of the characters and the story,rather than the way that she
chose to, or at least like change to the way she was
showing me these things. Like there's there's, there's,
there's something there that could have been changed.

(01:43:02):
And I think if she had just mixed up the pros and the visual
aspects of what she was showing me, I think would have served
the game significantly better. There's like kind of a lot to
think of in terms of. Yeah, what?
She said. And really, it's like.
This kind of in you talking. You made me realize like, even

(01:43:24):
though I may not. Love the things.
That she's done so far. I still want to kind of support
all of the things that she's done, yeah.
That's the crazy thing, right? Like in my eyes she is O for
two, but I am still extraordinarily interested in
her work. Exactly.
Yeah, that's a very good point. I didn't.

(01:43:44):
Think about that like that, Like.
Especially where you grow up there with like earned moments.
That's what I was thinking aboutlike with 1000 X resist where
like I I was like really immersed in like, I don't know,
I felt like some kind of way with like a lot of cutscenes,
but like I remember like you guys maybe like and
understandably not feeling the same way and like maybe like I'm

(01:44:08):
trying really hard like fathom with the hypothetical person
that would be affected like the.I like the earned moments in
this game where. Quote UN quote earned moments.
It's just I don't know, it's a hard thing to do.
It's like it's. Super difficult.
It's the hardest thing to do, I think.

(01:44:31):
Yeah. I think I'm being way too harsh
and like. Anyone out there that like does
empathize, I apologize. That being said, you pacing
this. Is very beneficial for me
because it is a lot to get through.
And I think like when I was listening through like I did

(01:44:52):
like generally agree with everything you said.
Yeah, I didn't want to read all of that.
Because it was going to take. Like 15 minutes.
So because that that's just. The snips, Yeah, I, I, I guess I
kind of think of these. Games as like potential
basically, I think that's why I'm interested and like no

(01:45:14):
matter what, I think that Isa Rain is a super talented visual
artist to the point of where I would play basically anything
that she would put out if it wasn't like unreasonably priced.
I think now though, and seeing that portrait or whatever she
has for that Twitter post, I want to see what she does when
it's not like a fucked up story,when she's just kind of doing

(01:45:34):
like more traditional media and see just see like the crazy
fucking like colorful landscapesthat you can make for like a
fantasy setting or something. But I don't, I don't think that
that's the kind of person that we're dealing with.
Yeah, No, absolutely not. Like I was just looking.
At her Twitter for like a coupleof.
Things she drew and I think it'snot like fucked up.
It's just like colorful cool drawings of like the characters.

(01:45:57):
Yeah. So her next game is called.
The one that she's working on now that doesn't that you can't
play yet is called Rehab Friday,so take that as you.
Know one of the games that has like the fucking?
Milk inside of a bag inside of abag of milk inside of a bag of
milk pods. It's called like tomorrow
something. Tomorrow won't come for those

(01:46:21):
without and then it's. A bunch of squares.
All right, let's. Let's gab about Ethernet after
we do our ratings IMO. Yeah, for sure.
Wait, you want to do awards? Yeah, awards I forgot all about.
That, well, I I wrote the awardsand I forgot about them, all

(01:46:43):
right. Well, tonight's.
An on the fly kind of night anyway so all right awards So
what was your guys's favorite social socialization enemy?
I took a screenshot, I'll tell you right now it.
Doesn't matter which. One it is but I I don't remember
what the enemy looked like but Iknow what he did and what it did

(01:47:05):
was never damaged me. Every time I looked up the
combat log after his attack it said I was healed by one SPP and
that's the enemy I like to that didn't have to think.
I knew that if I kept pressing confirm the combat would be over
more than one enemy and Andre was not with me escape
immediately. I now feel like I'm.

(01:47:25):
I'm not playing the same game asyou guys, so I think I got into.
Two combats and both of them I think was with the enemy that
Ben was just. Talking about I got into like 10
or so. That was my favorite, the
anxious student. I don't know if I ever even.
Saw that one? I never saw that one.
I don't. Think I've ever the only one?
I saw. Yeah, she she doesn't.
She doesn't do. Shit, wait, yeah, that's the

(01:47:48):
only enemy I saw. Wait sesh, did you not see the
fucking dismembered student? Ones.
Yeah, those are like the ones I saw.
The most like the ones that havelike organs like crawling out of
them and shoot. Yeah.
I only saw there's, there's. That's why I was like, I, I
think we played it. I definitely didn't see that.
One that one. Is my.
Favorite with the three bullies?I like that one.

(01:48:08):
Oh. That's insane.
You know, I think I got a lot more than maybe 3 combats.
And it's only with the first enemy.
That Tom hosted. There's a lot more of those than
I thought. Wow, now I understand the
question. Oh wait, no, I saw that enemy
too. That's also a good one the.
One I just posted the oh, I forgot about that one man.
Like the four dudes grey one is the other one that I saw.

(01:48:31):
Student. Amalgamate.
Yep, Yep, that was the first oneI saw.
And then besides that, it was just the.
Anxious one, I didn't see the other ones at all.
Yeah, my favorite was definitelythe bullies one.
I thought that one looked cool. And it was actually hard.
This is crazy. I feel like I played it.
I didn't even play the game now.No, I figured you.

(01:48:53):
Basically, yeah, if if you were in, if you got into one.
Combat. You got the gist of it.
You. They're all nothing.
Yeah, I don't what happens. If you quote UN quote.
Die in combat? I'm curious.
It's just a game over screen. You just reload your old Foo
like connection has been lost screen I guess.

(01:49:13):
Yeah, exactly. That's that's what.
Happens, yeah. Those are good stuff.
I. Fucking I love every single one
of those drawings. All right, let's.
Let's let's be good managers. We'll end with.
A compliment sandwich here And what what do you guys feel like

(01:49:35):
was episode 2's biggest weakness?
Without having played episode 3,I felt.
That episode 2 shows maybe. Like a plateau of how much
ethering can get out of RPG Maker.
Like this is kind of it maybe. Unless Episode 3 is like some

(01:49:56):
kind of like fucking banger. Do you mean her?
Or do you mean the human? The human race her.
OK, sorry if that was configuredshe had.
No doubt. Yeah, for, I mean for.
Me, it was definitely the combat.
It felt like it. I it it.

(01:50:16):
Literally just felt like someoneplayed the first game, told her
hey I I want to turn this combatin my game and she was like OK.
And then just that was it. There was, there was no more
thought put into it than that. For me it's the accessibility
and it's not even close. Yeah, it's like.

(01:50:37):
An actively super negative experience.
I actually agree with that. Like.
There's a reason. Why I only wanted to launch this
game one. Time and then never again.
All right, And wrapping up our compliment sandwich, what's its
biggest strength? I feel like even though.

(01:51:00):
Maybe, maybe we dunked on the narrative pretty hard.
I actually feel like the like the character dynamics are
actually pretty good. Like the core idea what she has
there are pretty good and they like the characters communicate
what they are meant to be in thestory and I feel like all that
pretty. That.
That worked all pretty, pretty well.
Good words. I agree.

(01:51:22):
It's crazy though, because I wasgoing to, I was going to do a
countdown for 321 and we all sayit at the same time.
Because it was going to be the same answer and I thought it was
going to be the art. Oh, I have a slightly different
one, but I kind of so. I'll let someone else continue.
While like having my thoughts toget, I thought it was kind of
developing on the fly. It's not what I wrote down.
I mean the reason I'm. Not saying the art.

(01:51:44):
Is because the art was also great in episode 1.
There's just. More of it in episode 2.
Yeah, and it's the best part to me.
Yeah, I guess I'm interpreting. The question a little bit
differently I. Guess you're right, yeah.
I think my the biggest strength in this game.
For me is the times where she actually does kind of like take

(01:52:08):
the leash off of her prose and decides to wax poetically
because I think she is extremelyfucking good at it.
She just doesn't do it enough inthis game.
And I'm specifically thinking offuck, what's it called?
You talk. It's in Vincent's like journal.
Things like the tale of. 2. Gods or whatever.

(01:52:30):
Yeah, very, very well written. When she again When she's waxing
poetically. She is like.
In my opinion, outside of the art, the art is obviously her
like fucking like crowning achievement.
But she, she is a good writer. Do not get it twisted.
I dunked on the narrative. I hated the way that she decided
to tell the story. But she is a very good fucking

(01:52:51):
writer. Yeah.
Yeah. And to springboard off that
because like some point you saidjust.
Reminded me what I was trying to.
Formulate with the answer to this award and I think the
biggest strength is actually theworld building.
And this is the part where now that I think about a little bit
more, I think this is where playing episode one kind of

(01:53:13):
enhanced it were like with the Book of Truth and all these
different like, like her lore vocabulary, you know what I
mean? Maybe that's like the wrong
term. But like the the encyclopedia of
like the universe she created, like all the different terms and
stuff. Like I thought that she did a
lot of work there and it was like a lot of like creative and
like novel stuff that I liked a lot.

(01:53:36):
Yeah, 80% agreed. Like even.
Though I think we're all going to rate this game fairly shitty.
Like, I still, I still find it amazing that like, even though
she's not hitting, she's she's still kind of hitting, you know?
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I kind of just think that
there's like a lot of potential,like I think eventually.

(01:53:56):
One of her. Games could be like a big hit.
And I think that I would grant her the grace of trying all of
her projects because it's her. Yeah.
Like, she's like, definitely an auteur.
And I don't think. Any kind of like auteur is
expected to like nail it every time, but I think like nail it

(01:54:17):
in terms of like widespread likeappeal or whatever.
But she has a very, very interesting voice, like
artistically that is intriguing enough that like.
Makes me want to. Keep checking her shit out.
Exactly exactly. So with that in mind.

(01:54:39):
Do you want to see if this is going to become the new lowest
rated game of all time? I don't think it's going to be.
I know, I don't think it's goingto be.
It's not going to be logic, but the first game was close.
The first the. First game was.
Really close to beating logic bombs.
I think it was like. .08 higher or some shit.
Fucking Ben's fault. You didn't give it a six?

(01:55:06):
What a maniac. I guess I gave it A5.
I mean, it was. I justified it I.
I thought it was not one that everyone can agree with, but one
that makes sense if if some of the decisions of that game
weren't so abhorrent to me, I, I.

(01:55:27):
Might have been in your. Ballpark yeah, specifically like
the the cheat thing or whatever all.
Right. Well.
Overall scores someone get to. Someone get the ID and the
guests command handy. I'll go first because I'm pretty
short here. So I guess one thing that is

(01:55:50):
like very. Obvious to.
Glean from all of. This.
At least from what I've been saying is that I have AI have a
tremendous amount of respect forHeather Rain.
It is. It's really not easy to put
yourself out there the way that she did for this game that in my
estimation, and maybe I'm off base, but I don't think I am,

(01:56:15):
but it's very difficult to just bare your entire.
Brain. For the world to see.
And I think that she pretty clearly has a lot of talent as a
writer, even though I I wouldn'tsay that's on full display here
like I mentioned before. There's just way too much heavy.

(01:56:35):
Handed clumsiness here that likeprecludes.
Me from. Thinking on the game favorably,
but if I allow myself to zoom out a bit and look at this as
someone, as something that was made by someone in their early
20s, I would still just maintainthat their best of work was was
still ahead of them. And so I still see the potential

(01:56:57):
in what she's doing. But again, unfortunately, this
game didn't live up to the loftyexpectations I kind of heralded
on it after the first game. But regardless, like despite all
of that, there's just something about her style that keeps my
interest piqued. And even though, like I said
earlier, she's kind of over 2, Istill am extremely excited to

(01:57:20):
see more of her work just to seewhere it goes 'cause if nothing
else, it's it's interesting and that's all that I want out of
art is don't fucking bore me. And she doesn't bore me, that is
for sure. But regardless of that, it still
gets a solid 4 1/2 out of 10. That's way lower than I thought.

(01:57:41):
Hell yeah, Jordan nailed it. I was going to pick. 4 1/2 too,
but I was like. Yeah, you might not go.
That low? I actually have 5 out of 10
written in my notes and I changed it.
In the last five. Seconds.
Son of a bitch. But yeah, I mean, a lot of it

(01:58:02):
for me is. Just like after the first game I
just had. So.
Like, I, it's probably unfair ofme, but I levied a lot on what I
was expecting out of this game. And that's mostly because of
cringe Internet Redditors who were talking about how much they
cried and shit. And so the expectations that I
went into this game with we're not met, which probably isn't

(01:58:25):
fair, which is why I was saying before, if I hadn't played the
first game or if the first game didn't exist, I think I would
have liked this one more. But yeah, I mean, that's why I
gave you like a little bit lowerthan if you did the first time
because I was like, I think a lot of the things that you
liked. About the first game, aren't
present in this game, so that's why I thought it was going to be
like a little bit lower. Yeah, in hindsight, I should
have lowered it for that reason too.
I kept thinking that like since it's leaning away from that kind
of horary. Stuff that the first game had it

(01:58:47):
would have been lower, but I didn't think to guess it lower.
Hi, Jordan, you're up. Yeah.
I mean, it's, I think it's. Pretty.
Easy for me, I think this game is.
Definitely like a step up from the previous.
Game it's kind of like more liketraditional characters in the
story which like I mean I like more character centric stories
anyway. I don't think that she did like

(01:59:08):
a great job with anything, but Ithink she definitely kind of has
like the framework for what could be good writing in the
future, which is kind of like potential and everything.
I think it's better than the first game, but I kept waffling
back and forth between 2 scores and I think ultimately I'm going
to end it a three instead of a 21/2 because I think that she did
a good enough job and mainly giving me like hope for future

(01:59:31):
works more than happiness with the current work.
Damn, I'm glad what was your reading. 30.
Hell yeah, I at least guessed. That it was going to be.
Higher than the first episode. Yeah, I think it's much better

(01:59:51):
than the first game, mainly because.
It just removed all the fucking obnoxious force.
Yeah, all the. Stupid ass like waste your
fucking time puzzles being gone was.
A big step in the right direction and I think also if I
played this game in 2016 when itcame out, I probably would like
it a lot more. But having played Amori, like
it's just like kind of like 433.Yeah, that's yeah.

(02:00:14):
Amori is literally just what this game wants to do, which is
like better in almost. Every way except the art, I
think. She's a better artist, yeah,
probably more artists. Really good, but really good
art. But I mean, like, we're talking
like a fucking. 18 year old girl.
Yeah, I know. I I feel like this is a little
bit of a tangent, but I feel like.

(02:00:34):
Amori is. Just like.
I feel like it's even more stylized in this game in that
like kind of like crayon style drying that I love.
But oh, absolutely. Yeah, they're they're definitely
both great in their art department.
At the very least. Amori also took like fucking. 12
years to make or something like compared to these games which
took like 8 months. Yeah, Yeah.

(02:00:56):
I think Amori started development in like 20-12 and.
Released in 20. 20 to the point of where like people thought it
was a. Scam.
For like 4 years people thought they got scammed out of
Kickstarter money. But anyway, Seth, do you want to
go? Yeah, I.
Don't know, I feel like. I don't have a ton of.
Thoughts about this game? The I I I really just didn't

(02:01:17):
have that great of an experienceplaying it.
Like none of the accessibility stuff getting improved sucked.
Stuff that like kind of bugged me in the first game I I almost
wish was present in this game, like some of that weird horrory
stuff that like at the very least it it made it stand out,
you know, and being like kind ofgrating, but still getting

(02:01:40):
through it or whatever. But I don't know the character
dynamics were good. And so as a snap judgement with
some of the narrative stuff, I'mI'm bumping it up a half point
than my original score. I I don't know, I just didn't
love this game. I feel like I expected a little
bit more and that might be a little bit unfair, but I'm still

(02:02:00):
going to arrive at a 3 1/2. Oh yeah.
But. You're going to hate it a little
bit more. Damn, damn, you guessed.
Him lower than you. That's intense.
I thought he was going to fucking hate it.
Well, I'm 2 for two I. Mean for me?

(02:02:22):
A three is definitely hating it.A2 or A1 is like a I'm posting
in the chat about how. Much I fucking hate this.
Game and I don't know if I'm going to finish the game because
of how much I hate it. That would be a one or two
gotcha. Now I know Hi Ben, you're up.
Did you say 3 and? 1/2 yeah, 3 1/2 I give it a half

(02:02:43):
point at the. End for narrative E.
Stuff. Gotcha.
Yeah, so my rating is of actually oscillating.
A bit like. I think I started like before,
before everything before this discussion and I kind of like
revise my opinion. I kind of came in at a six out
of 10, but I think I'm going to settle at a 5 out of 10.

(02:03:06):
And the reason why is because I rated Episode 1, I think a four
out of 10. And I feel like I kind of
mentioned this earlier like briefly, but like I feel like it
just at least in terms of gameplay, it's not big enough
for even really an evolution at all from the first game.
I really felt like a lot of it was just the same thing, except

(02:03:28):
one dungeon was taken out from the first game that sucked ass.
And that's what what that's basically episode 2 for the most
part. Mechanically it's the same
thing. And it's just wasn't enough to
like, bump up the numbers even more outside of just the general
Polish and also, I guess easier digestible story.
I, I guess I give like some points for that.

(02:03:49):
And by points, I mean fractions.Did you say, what did you say,
5? Yeah, yeah, 5.
Damn I was 3 for. Three tonight.
Hell. Yeah, they could beat logic
bombs, right? Oh yeah.
It's slaughtered logic bombs I think and 1/2. 12/17.
What is logic Bombs? What'd you rate it?

(02:04:12):
Oh, wait, no, I see it. 1415 1/2Yeah, beat it by a point and 1/2
it should. It should all be.
Up there now let's see. Yeah.
Average rating for. Hello, Charlotte.
Episode 2 is 4 point O exact same as episode 1 I might add
and logic bombs was 3.8 crush them yeah you know it's.

(02:04:39):
Crazy because. Like the ratings feel
appropriate and they feel fair, but.
I also don't feel like it. This is like one of the few
cases where I feel like my low ass score is not like justified
by a certain level of like vitriol behind it.
Like I'm not sitting here wanting to shit on the game
because like, I think it's how do I phrase this?

(02:05:03):
I think it's like a it's it's anAdmiral admirable artistic
endeavor, even if it didn't really like pan out.
I I'm I'm glad it exists, whereas something like logic
bombs. I think the world is like
actively worse for. Having it exist.

(02:05:23):
I mean, I don't feel that viscerally about logic bombs.
Even though I was the lowest fucking voter, I mean, I'm going
to understand. All of this, yeah.
I mean honestly, I don't going to be shitting on that game till
the end I don't feel. I definitely I don't feel that
way about logic bombs, but what I.
Do actually genuinely. Feel that way?
About is tears. Of the Kingdom That only makes

(02:05:44):
sense because Tears of the Kingdom.
Is in the position to dictate like trends in?
Gaming. If you don't like it, then yeah,
that will actively make the world worse.
Exactly, exactly my point. So yeah.
Etherain, don't get down on yourself for your 10 year old
games ratings because I think you're great.

(02:06:09):
Yeah, without a doubt. I'm actually like, excited to.
Play more of myself, especially getting outside of hello.
Charlotte yeah, look, and and even for me, like even though,
like I said, oh, for two, I still really want to.
Play Hello Charlotte Episode 3. Oh yeah, me, me too.
Yeah, I'm invested. It's kind of like, not not as
harsh as what I'm about. To say, but it's kind of like.
Kingdom Hearts where like I'm already invested.

(02:06:31):
I need to see. Oh yeah.
I mean, that's definitely. Did you play all three Kingdom
Hearts? Yeah.
Unfortunately, yeah. No, I didn't too.
Oh, Speaking of unfortunate. I played the supplementary
games. Speaking of unfortunate, I did.
Launch Hello Charlotte episode 3just to see if the.
Accessibility stuff was there. Yeah, I guess I shouldn't come

(02:06:53):
as a big surprise. Oh no, that's crazy.
Dude, are you going to charge? Money and it's still not fixed.
Yeah, that's, I mean, granted, all I did was just.
Launch into the main menu, but all I did was see the like. 320
by 240 window and that was enough to extrapolate such a
bomber Bach well. Regardless, I'm still.

(02:07:18):
I'm still pumped to play it so if.
You guys still want to continue on with our inner mezzo?
Hello, Charlotte. Journey on down.
Yeah, as I'll finish it at this point.
Yeah. I mean, so obviously that's not
the upcoming week. Because the upcoming week is
going to be. Baldur's.
Gate Act 2. But then one thing I will say,

(02:07:38):
and this is to her. Credit I think she prices.
Her games. Fairly, yeah, I agree.
Free. No, they're like, well, only.
The Dumbo was free right these. Other ones were like was.
Like did I pay money for this? I don't know if you did I, I did
they go down half a point? No.

(02:07:59):
Kidding. Is did this game cost much The
third? Game does, the other two don't.
Oh yeah, the second game. Oh, wait.
I thought the second. Wait why did I think the second
game cost money? Am I crazy?
I must be. Crazy that actually wants to.
Give it a 5 1/2 now. Yeah, no, I'm not going to
change it, but like for some. Reason why did I think I gave
her money already? Did you buy?
Episode 3 I. Didn't.

(02:08:20):
I don't think so because it's the episode 3.
Is 4 bucks and the DLC. Is 2.
Bucks. OK, Yeah.
I I think I just hallucinated like a.
A high in this session. Which is all the time.
So that's funny because you actually had to add a real game
to your library versus the demo,so you thought that it would.
Be money, Yeah, even though theywere both.

(02:08:41):
Free. OK.
Well, the third one I think is. Probably fairly priced I think.
These two could have been a dollar.
And I think I agree. I agree, Yeah.
And in my mind I thought. I paid 190. 9 for it.
I would have paid a dollar, yeah.
I think I think that there's. AI mean I don't know if we.

(02:09:02):
Want to like just wrap up here and then we can talk about this,
but. Yeah, I say we just bullshit.
Seth can cut it out if he wants to.
I I think steam games make a gigantic game.
Lost Craig charging a. Dollar or.
Chart of being free when they could charge a dollar.
Because I think a free. Game to me means like it's not

(02:09:23):
worth my fucking time at all. Whereas a dollar is like, OK,
there's something here and then like $5 is obviously like where
it's like we're coaching real product.
For me it's it's entirely and 100% dependent on genre.
Like if it's a free to play idolgame, sure.
If it's a free to play like Korean.
MMO. Sure, if it's a free to play RPG

(02:09:45):
maker game. Get that shit out of my face.
Yeah, I only mean like small team free to play style single.
Player games like I think. If you make a single.
Player game and it's free to play.
I'm almost certainly not going to play like almost 100% of the
time I'm not going to play it. I don't even think I have any of
those except for this. One I guess complete side note

(02:10:07):
tangent. I was just browsing the steam
store because I was. Looking at Hello Charlotte.
And then today I just learned that there's an Axiom Verge 2.
What the fuck? And it came out like 30 years
ago. I was gonna say that's old.
I really liked the first game. I didn't even know that I
remember that coming out. I've only.
I've only heard that the second one's.
Better than the first one, but Ididn't like the first one.

(02:10:27):
Too. Careful buddy, we already got a
new hot and ready Metroid Mania coming out. $20 hot and ready
like a game pass hot and ready. What are you talking about?
Oh, yeah, true. I mean, I was just making a
Little Caesar's rough, Yeah. So did we decide what we're

(02:10:51):
going to do for like scheduling for?
That shit, like, are we just going to do 2 weeks for like
Baldur's Gate Act 2 next week? Hello Charlotte.
Episode 3, the week after Baldur's Gate three, Act 3 after
that song, after that. Is that kind of the plan?
Sounds good to me. Works for me.
Sounds close, yeah. I'm definitely playing song.

(02:11:12):
Isn't just like? The largest game to ever.
Be created. That's probably.
Going to find to play it. I think it's going to be close
to the same size of the person. I already been reading reviews
so. At least they've.
Been showing up in my fucking phones like.
Google. Fucking AI goddamn journalist

(02:11:32):
article shit I that's who's reviewing it.
I saw one of these for this game.
Won't. Mean anything to me because
like. I don't know, I just have to.
See for myself if it's. Any different from the first
game? That's all that really matters
to me. Literally.
It's going to be a lot closer. Yeah, I know.
I think I'm going to be disappointed that, but that's
just. Speaking for myself.

(02:11:53):
Yeah. Most of the reviews that I've
seen just said that it's, it's just the first.
Game like it's just AI. Don't know how you've seen
reviews. Is it people who played the demo
at game? I have no clue.
I just assumed that journalists were doing journalists things
because. I think what I saw was some rock
paper shotgun. They they didn't send out review

(02:12:15):
copies to any. Oh yeah, this shit was from a
week ago. All right, I take.
It all back. This is all.
Fake news, it's the game comms demo reviews.
Because yeah, they, they specifically said we're not
sending out any copies because we think it's.
Unfair for journalists to play it before Kickstarter backers.
I'm going on them especially because game journalists are
fucking cuckolds. Well, I guess.

(02:12:39):
It's mostly just ChatGPT now. Unfortunately, yeah, there's so
many of those. Fucking sites like game, right?
And like all the walkthrough sites now.
I feel like it's just fucking. ChatGPT.
Bullshit. Man, I really want to know what
it was about this game that madepeople fucking.
Cry. It's like such a common

(02:13:00):
sentiment. I feel and I just don't get it.
I think it's relatability, I think.
I think you just have to be. Like a, Like a.
Someone who struggles with mental illness.
That kind of be like a early. To mid to late teenager.
Same thing with like a Mori. Like everybody likes a Mori.
Like hello Charlotte. I think that that's a circle.

(02:13:23):
So that was Hello Charlotte episode 2.
Next week we'll be. Discussing vaulter skate.
Three Act 2 and that's an episode.