In this episode of The Aging Well Podcast, Dr. Jeff Armstrong's guest is Dr. Christopher Rhodes, founder and CEO of Mimio Health, a biomimetic supplement company focused on recreating the benefits of fasting through a daily supplement. Dr. Rhodes explains the science behind fasting, its effects on aging, and how Mimeo's unique formulation mimics the biochemical processes that occur during fasting. The discussion also covers recent clinical studies, unexpected findings, and the practical benefits of Mimio for users, including appetite suppression and improved metabolic health. Additionally, insights into demographic differences in response to Mimeo and comparisons to traditional fasting methods are explored. The discussion explores its potential for enhancing athletic performance, its incorporation into daily routines, and its implications for various populations, including those with metabolic conditions. Dr. Rhodes emphasizes the importance of scientific integrity in the supplement industry and outlines future research directions for Mimio. He also highlights the distinction between maintaining healthspan and lifespan, advocating for a holistic approach to healthy aging.Learn more about Dr. Rhodes and Mimio Health at: https://mimiohealth.com/
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(00:09):
In this episode of the Aging Well podcast, my guest is Doctor
Christopher Rhodes, Co Founder and CEO of Mimeo Health.
In episode 196, Doctor Rhodes shared insights into how fasting
and fasting mimicking diets and profoundly influence cellular
processes, boost metabolic health, and potentially extend
lifespan. He returns in this episode to
(00:29):
update us on the research into fasting biomimetics and how
these may improve hunger, appetite control, glucose
levels, cholesterol levels, and more.
Whether you're curious about optimizing your health or
looking for innovative ways to age well, this episode offers
valuable perspectives from a leader in the field.
Well, Doctor Rhodes, welcome back to the Aging Well podcast.
(00:51):
Let's begin by having you just kind of refresh our viewers and
listeners on Mimeo, health and fasting, memetics, and even a
little bit more about kind of what who you are and what you
are. Yeah, absolutely.
So I'm Doctor Chris Rhodes, got my PhD in nutritional
biochemistry at UC Davis, and I'm also the CEO and scientific
(01:13):
founder of Mimeo Health. And Mimeo is a biomimetic
supplement company. So basically what that means is
we study actual human biology inthese interesting regenerative
states of the body, whether that's fasting or exercise or
sleep or cold exposure, things like that, and basically try to
(01:35):
tease out what's happening in the body during these
interesting regenerative states.And is there a way that we can
recreate those benefits? But you know, on demand in
supplement form, rather than having to, let's say, fast for
36 hours, right? So our, our first product is
Mimio. It's a fasting memetic, like you
(01:56):
said, and it was designed from 7years of clinical research into
human fasting. And basically what we found
there was that when people fast for 36 hours, there's this
unique set of molecules that areproduced by the body that are
really only elevated during a fast.
And we found that those were theones responsible for activating
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a lot of these beneficial cellular health and longevity
effects of fasting. So we basically isolated those
molecules, put them into a dailysupplement so that you can
basically recreate fasting at the molecular level, get those
same benefits, but without actually having to fast.
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And that's Mimio. And why is fasting an important
factor in aging well? Yeah, that's a great question.
So fasting is one of the only methods that we know of right
now to reliably extend lifespan in model organisms.
And generally the best that we see with that is the approach of
alternate day fasting. So you know, one day of normal
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eating, one day of fasting, one day of normal eating, one day of
fasting repeated throughout an organism's entire life.
And what that usually equates tois, is around, you know, these
periods of 36 hours of fasting, right?
And you can have water in between those fluids are always,
you know, permitted during, during fasting.
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And you can see anywhere betweena, you know, 30 to 80% lifespan
extension in these, in these model organisms, depending on
what the animal is with fasting and without having to reduce
calories, which is really interesting when you dive even
deeper into the beneficial effects of fasting.
(03:42):
It goes beyond lifespan as well because it's also treating
health span. So it's helping to treat,
prevent or delay in most major diseases.
There's the really robust history around it for, you know,
neurodegenerative diseases, cancer, autoimmune diseases,
cardiovascular disease, things like that.
So basically, you name it, fasting has been shown to help
(04:05):
with it. So that was really interesting
to me as a scientist and a researcher.
When I got into the healthy aging and longevity space, it
was very much like, here's this one thing that does everything
and it's not something that you're adding into the system,
right? It's not a superfood or a wonder
drug, but somehow fasting is activating this, you know,
(04:28):
beneficial, as I call it, longevity bio program, basically
optimizing all of your cellular functionalities for health
regeneration and survival. So that was one of the reasons
why fasting was really, really compelling to me as something
that we need to, you know, research and tease out and see
if there is a is a way that we can activate all those same
(04:50):
benefits on. Demand, I know I probably asked
this in our previous conversation, but for those who
might have missed it, can you explain how Mimio Healths
technology supports cellular health and longevity and how it
differs from fasting and other fasting mimicking approaches?
And then we talked about some ofthe other approaches in that
previous conversation. Yeah, absolutely.
(05:12):
So Mimio is a fasting memetic inthe very true sense of the term.
It is taking what your body would naturally do during a fast
and giving it back to you in supplement form.
So we're literally just mimicking what your body would
naturally do during a fast. And then those molecules go on
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to have their own bio active abilities and activate these
cellular benefits of fasting. So that's very distinct from
anything else that is on the market.
We're the only company in the supplement space right now
that's taking this biomimetic approach, right?
Actually studying what happens in humans and trying to find
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ways to recreate that and other products that are out there.
Fasting mimicking diet is the major one.
Prolong, right? And how we're different from
Prolong is essentially that Prolong is a 5 day nutritional
cleanse essentially. So you know, they're giving you
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5 days worth of these, you know,pre made nutrition health meal
plan packets kind of thing. The caveat to that is that
they're giving you something in the range of 700 to 1000
calories per day. So it is very severe caloric
restriction. So the way that the fasting
mimicking diet, you know, mimicsfasting is by #1 really, really
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reducing calories, right? Kind of almost like you are
fasting. And then they give you a
specific set of foods and nutrients that have been dialed
in to not activate your or not like, you know, break your fast
essentially. So not activate your
carbohydrate metabolism or your fed metabolism, things that
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would, you know, ordinarily physiologically take your body
out of a fast. So with Prolong, it's a five day
program where you're getting, you know, really reduced
calories and you know, taking inthis special diet versus mimeo
that is taking what your body would naturally produce during a
fast and just giving it back to you so that you can get those
same benefits even when you are eating.
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You don't have to change your lifestyle.
You don't to change your diet inany way.
So it's a daily consistent supplement that you would take
rather than a five day meal plan.
So from a cellular perspective, what are the differences between
intermittent fasting and prolonged fasting?
It's a great question. So fasting and definitely has a
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gradiation of effects depending on how long you do it, right.
And a lot of that comes down to the fact that it takes around 20
to 24 hours in order for your body to do your glycogen stores,
which are essentially your stored carbohydrates in your
body. So up until that 20 to 24 hour
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mark, you're not going to see dramatically different changes
in your biochemistry, your metabolism, how your Physiology
really works and operates because your body's going to be
harvesting glucose, which is what it prefers to you from all
of these glycogen stores and kind of using that as your
primary fuel source. Once you deplete those glycogen
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stores at around 20 to 24 hours,that's when you really get into
the initial stages of, you know,true physiological fasting.
So you don't have any more glucose stores to draw on
anymore. Your body's going to start
mobilizing fat, using that to produce ketones and then have
this big metabolic switch that happens from, you know, that fed
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state carbohydrate metabolism into fasting ketosis and this
energy restriction metabolism. As you progress further into
fasting, things kind of change even more.
And we don't have a ton of greatscientific data about what
really happens in the body afteraround 72 hours worth of
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fasting. But after that 24 hour mark, as
you progress, you'll basically see greater and greater
anti-inflammatory effects, you know, these effects on immune
cell regeneration and stem cell progenation.
You'll see increases in autophagy that happened, which
is essentially our cellular cleanup and recycling programs.
(09:29):
A lot of these metabolic efficiency pathways that are
being turned on to try and conserve energy, right?
And make sure that without food,we're continuing to survive.
So it's a lot of kind of like a reset to homeostasis for your
system. We're not having all of these
external factors that are, you know, really disrupting the
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system, right? So we can get back to all right.
We're just going to focus on maintaining, cleaning, repairing
and the the survival of the cells that we do have because we
don't have enough energy to makea new cell if something goes
wrong. Really the reason we have you on
the podcast again is to talk a little bit more about some of
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this new research that you all have been doing.
So maybe I recently partnered with was it People Science in a
random controlled study? Can you give us kind of a high
level overview of the study and its purpose?
Yeah, absolutely. So in the in the progression of
mimeo science, this is our thirdclinical study.
So our first clinical study was essentially our discovery study
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where we looked at what happens in the body during a 36 hour
fast. We were able to identify the
Mimeo formulation and show that it can recreate these cellular
health benefits of fasting in human cells and then also extend
the lifespan in model organisms by 96%, so basically doubling
their lifespan just through supplementation.
(10:57):
That was kind of our original clinical study.
We were really excited about those results.
The next step for us was our second clinical study, which is
called a pilot study, basically just making sure that all right,
let's take these molecules, let's actually give them to
people, make sure that they showup in circulation, that they're
properly absorbed, that they're utilized and see what their
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short term effects are. So what we did for that study
was we had people come in, eat astandardized breakfast with a
placebo control and looked at their plasma functionalities.
And then we had those same people come back after a washout
period, eat that same standardized breakfast, but then
with supplementation with mimeo.And what we saw there was that
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when people ate alongside the placebo, there was this big loss
in their plasma and cellular functionalities, which is
really, really common. It's part of the postprandial
state, the post eating state. So when you think about it, you
have a lot of nutrients and foreign molecules that are
coming into the system when we eat, kind of throwing the system
in the metabolic chaos, knockingus out of homeostasis, creating
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these pro inflammatory responses.
So it's not great for optimal cellular functioning.
So we saw that their plasma became pro inflammatory and less
antioxidant and less cardio protective.
But when they ate that same meal, but then with
supplementation with mimeo, we were able to not only prevent
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all of that loss of function, but then add gains of function
on top of that that mimicked what we saw when people fasted.
So instead of being pro inflammatory, their plasma
became anti angry and anti antioxidant and cardio
protective, which was really amazing.
So we were able to show in that study that the ingredients are
bioavailable, they can be absorbed.
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We know what their what their pharmaconetics pharmacokinetics
as it's called, are. And then we were also able to
show that even in the short termwe can recreate these beneficial
effects of fasting even when people are eating.
And so that launched us into RA.We know that it works in human
cells. We know that it has these
longevity effects. We know that we can mimic
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fasting even during a meal in the short term.
What are the longer term benefits that we might be able
to get from this formulation? And that is our latest third
clinical study. And for that one, we looked at
just normal healthy older folks 50 to 75 years old and equal
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distribution of men and women. We had 42 people total in the
study. And this was a randomized,
double-blind, placebo-controlledstudy just looking at what
happens when people take mimeo for eight weeks or a placebo for
8 weeks. And what we saw there was
really, really impressive. We were basically able to show
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that with eight weeks of supplementation, we had really
dramatic improvements to hunger control, satiety, reduced
cravings, reduced food noise, less overall and maximal daily
hunger. So a lot of these, you know,
appetite control benefits, we were able to show that we could
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reduce intestinal pain and bloating over those eight weeks.
And then really significantly, when we're looking at the blood
markers, we can also see a lot of metabolic control factors
that are happening as well. So we were able to improve
fasting glucose levels, We were able to improve total
cholesterol levels, LDL cholesterol levels, specifically
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LDL particle number, which is, you know, even more indicative
of cardiovascular disease risk. And then we were able to improve
overall oxidative stress status as well.
So basically, you know, how stressed are your cells?
It's a, you know, one of the primary reasons that we age is
an accumulation of oxidative stress and damage over time.
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So being able to reduce that is really kind of showing you the
longevity potential of the molecules themselves.
So, you know, we're really, really happy to be able to get
these both, you know, pretty significant metabolic health
effects, these cardio protectiveeffects and these longevity
effects from this new eight weekclinical study.
So were there any results that were kind of unexpected or
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anything that really stood out at you is were surprising or
just a bit more more exciting than you thought it would be?
Yeah, we definitely didn't expect to see the reductions in
bloating and abdominal pain, right, Because that's, you know,
that's something that we were asking.
But it wasn't like a primary outcome that we were like, yes,
we know that mimeo does these things.
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So that was the that was probably the most interesting to
to look at. And then the appetite control
element of it too. It's not totally surprising.
The oleoil ethanolamide OEA that's in mimeo has been shown
in previous clinical studies to have these appetite suppression
effects. But what was really interesting
(16:05):
to see when you looked at the data was how that kind of
manifests itself. So when we think about, you
know, hunger control, we're thinking about like, OK, cool, I
took it and I immediately had this big drop in, in hunger or
this big increase in satiety, right?
Like I can't eat as much. I feel fuller longer or I'm just
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like, not hungry at all. And there is that effect, but
it's very, it's like a subtle day-to-day kind of thing.
So when we look at the the dailyhunger inputs, what we saw was
that when we started the study, they were pretty high and then
got, you know, significantly lower over time.
But within that day-to-day, there's a lot of ups and downs,
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right? So as you're constantly, it's
kind of like walking a staircase, right?
It's like, okay, down, down, down, down, down, but it's not a
totally like straight line. And that was probably the most
interesting piece of the data tosee because it does very much
reflect how consumers can sometimes describe the product,
right? It's like they don't notice the
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day-to-day differences because from one day to the next, you
know, it's a little step down. It's not a huge change.
But when you look at the data over those eight weeks, it does
become a huge change, even if people don't, you know,
naturally even notice it. And that is, I think, a really
good just, you know, metaphor, analogy, example of how
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supplements and cellular health kind of work in general, right?
It's like even when you don't notice these, you know, severe
day-to-day hour to hour differences that are happening
when things are working at the cellular level, you'll see that,
you know, change over time. So refresh the listener to how
does Mimio mimic the effects of fasting at the biochemical
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level? I know you kind of touched on
this a little bit, but just to kind of really clarify to them
what's going on is they take thesupplement.
Yeah. So what's going on is
essentially Mimeo has four ingredients in it that we
identified were elevated in the body during a 36 hour fast.
And we found that each of those molecules individually could
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mimic a certain or recreate a certain facet of fasting, right?
So Spermidean, for example, is really well known for helping to
support and enhance autophagy. NAD, the nicotinamide that we
have in there, it's an NAD precursor that's really well
known for enhancing NAD levels, which then goes on to kind of
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promote a lot of these epigenetic and translational
changes that are supportive of this, you know, fasting and
caloric restriction, energy restriction pathways that help
lead to these metabolic efficiency things and survival
within cells. So what Mimi was doing is
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basically, you know, taking these molecules that we
identified from the fasting state and then further
identified have these synergistic effects together to
activate these complementary pathways in order to recreate
what would happen in a cell in the body during an actual 36
hour fast. So kind of what we were talking
about before, the nicotinamide that's in Mimeo is working to
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enhance NAD levels. NAD is the primary energy
sensing molecule within cells. So if you have a high proportion
of NAD plus, that's basically a signal to your cells that
there's not a lot of energy around.
So we need to turn on these energy restriction and recycling
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mechanisms, these metabolic efficiency pathways that
ultimately help lead to survival.
What spermidine is doing is activating autophagy and which
is also what you would see in fasting.
The palmettoial ethanolamide that's in mimeo is essentially
kind of like your body's rest and repair molecule.
So it has a lot of these immunomodulatory effects,
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reducing inflammation, helping to reduce pain.
Working through Cox one and two inhibitions.
So kind of like your body's natural ibuprofen to a certain
degree. But what's also really
interesting is that it's part ofthe endocannabinoid system.
So it's also signaling through CB1 and CB2 receptors.
So kind of like your body's natural CBD at the same time it
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has these mood enhancement effects, it has these cognition
enhancement effects, it has thisreally profound effect on neuro
inflammation. So that's kind of operating as
this, you know, anti-inflammatory portion of
what fasting can do. And then finally we have the
oleo ethanolamide, that's an mimeo, the OEA and that's
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basically serving as a stand in for the metabolic effects that
you would experience during a fast.
So what's really interesting about OEA is that when it was
originally identified, it was identified as a satiety factor
after people people ate a meal. So it would, you know, it would
increase about, you know, one totwo hours after taking a meal,
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but then disappear after that. And people thought that that was
the only time that OEA was really up regulated just as a
way to help, you know, tell yourbody, OK, there's food in the
system so we don't have to eat anymore.
What we found was that it was really, really highly up
regulated also in fasting. And we think that this is
basically an evolutionary adaptation so that your body
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doesn't feel, like, painfully hungry all the time when you're
fasting, right? Because that's not a great way
to support an organism's health.It's like, all right, great,
there's no food around. We're going to cripple you with
hunger so that you can't go out there and find, you know,
berries or hunt down that gazelle or whatever it is.
So during fasting, you get this big spike in OEA as your body's
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natural way to say, all right, we're not going to be hungry.
So that you can focus on doing the things that you actually
have to do to survive, which is really, really cool.
So OEA is producing those satiety effects, those appetite
suppression effects, but then also activating PPAR alpha,
which is essentially telling cells and telling your body to
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prioritize fat metabolism and beta oxidation.
So basically helping your cells get that metabolic switch that
happens during a fast as well. So all these things are kind of
coming together to, like I said,activate these complementary
pathways and then recreate thesecellular effects, these cellular
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benefits, and then these whole body benefits that you would
experience during fasting but can now get just through
supplementation. OK, I'm geeking out on all this
because I'm a PhD too. And, you know, a lot of our
listeners are probably sitting there thinking, OK, you guys are
doctors. You know, this stuff.
You're throwing all these chemical words at us and these
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biochemical pathways and everything else.
What can you tell the average listener?
You know if you take Mimeo, thisis what you can expect in your
body and this is going to be thelong term effects of taking this
supplement. That's a great question too.
There's A and there's a lot of answers to that.
So I love doing my job as a scientist for mimeo and working
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with these molecules and these ingredients specifically because
they're so well clinically validated.
There's over 100 studies that have looked at the individual
ingredients on their own and kind of their efficacies across
a wide range of conditions and indications.
So there's a ton of things that people could experience and
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could expect from mimeo based on, you know, the clinical
studies that we've done. The major things that people can
expect are, you know, this appetite suppression effect,
this improvement in digestion and digestive symptoms, but then
also, you know, the, the balancing of a lot of these very
important cardio metabolic risk factors like the glucose levels
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and the cholesterol levels, the LDL levels, the ox LDL levels,
the oxidative stress levels, thetotal antioxidant capacity of
the plasma, right? So we're really creating these
anti-inflammatory, antioxidant, cardio protective effects,
right? Beyond that, we've also seen
from the clinical studies with the individual ingredients that
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there are these cognitive enhancement effects.
There's these muscle performance, exercise
performance and recovery benefits to it.
There can be a weight loss benefit as well.
There can be a strength increasein energy increase coming from
the NAD levels. And then spermidine is usually a
little bit more of the subtler one, right?
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Like it's, since it's promoting autophagy, it's kind of
activating more at the cellular level unless at the
physiological level. But there have been some
clinical studies there showing enhancement in cognition, memory
and focus as well. So that's kind of what people
can expect from Mimio is that it's basically helping to merge
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these metabolic benefits together with the cellular
health and longevity benefits. And how that manifests typically
is with the appetite suppressionaffects, the energy enhancement
affects, the cognitive enhancement affects, and then
also for people who have kind ofthose aches and pains of getting
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older, right? If it's, you know,
osteoarthritis or just, you know, general wear and tear in
the system, usually you can see a lot of pain relief there as
well. And that's coming from the Palma
Toil ethanolamide, which has been really well clinically
validated for its ability to behave as a natural pain.
Relief. So in a nutshell, you can say
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it'll help the individual age well.
Exactly, it'll help them age well.
We'll optimize your metabolism for longevity.
Yeah. I mean, listening this, it's
like the long term benefits are so important there.
I mean, you are going to have a suppressed appetite, so you're
going to tend to eat less, whichmakes it a little bit more
easier to be in a caloric deficit, to lose weight, but
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also to be in that more chronically caloric restricted
state. But also to be able to up the
metabolism in ways that you're going to benefit cell health and
cognitive health. And the list goes on and on and
on. It's really kind of exciting to
kind of listen to all this. And so this was a study that
included 42 healthy overweight men and women with elevated HBA
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1C levels. The sample size probably a
little bit too small, but were there any notable differences in
the results based on demographics like age or gender?
Yeah, we didn't see any. We didn't see any differences
based on age or gender. It seemed to pretty well work
for everybody, which was great. One major thing that we did see
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is that, and that's like anotherinteresting thing that we didn't
really expect. It works, it works better in
women for the appetite suppression effects than it does
for men, even though everybody, you know, there wasn't any
significant differences. But what we saw was that women
hit more metrics than men did interms of being able to like feel
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that appetite suppression and increase in satiety.
And I think that that's really important to note because what
we hear all the time anecdotallyin the fasting world is that
women have a much harder time fasting than men do.
And because, you know, there's all this influence of the
hormonal cycles, the menstrual cycle on how women experience
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hunger and how women, you know, experience just like day-to-day
biochemistry, right? Mimeo has also, on our side,
been really helpful for helping women to enhance their fasts or,
you know, get more benefits fromtheir intermittent fasting or
just help make fasting itself easier.
So that's something that we see all the time is that we have
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women come to us who are like, Ireally want to try intermittent
fasting. I really want the benefits of
it, but I just find it really difficult to do.
And I, you know, get really hungry really quickly.
And when I take mimeo that just kind of goes away.
So I can actually do like a one meal a day program if I want to,
or I can just, you know, do the intermittent fasting and not be
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so miserable all. The time that's fascinating
because you know, I guess you, you think of with women, it is
going to be naturally protectiveto not be, not eating right
because you, you want to be. If you're going to be
reproductive, you got to be in ahealthy state.
You have to have nutrients. Right.
Yeah, and. So don't want to not eat.
So how do these findings compareto traditional fasting methods
(28:43):
in terms of the health benefits?Yeah, that's a great question as
well. So I would say that, you know,
fasting in and of itself, especially if you're doing
something in the range of these deeper states of fasting, right,
a 36 hour fast, a 48 hour fast, a 72 hour fast, though, those
are going to be more powerful interventions than mimeo on its
own, right? Especially if you're taking
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mimeo alongside food. Because what's basically
happening in that system, as we saw in our second clinical
study, is that eating in and of itself has a lot of these
negative impacts on inflammatorystatus, antioxidant status,
metabolic status, right? So we're almost constantly in
that fed state, especially in the Western world where we have
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our three meals a day plus snacks, right?
It takes around 4:00 to 6:00 hours in order for the body to
resolve those negative effects of the postprandial state and
return back to homeostasis. So when we think about that
three meals a day plus snacks, you know, we're eating almost
every three hours. So we're never throughout being
the course of our entire day ever getting back to that
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homeostasis where we can kind offocus again on the repair and
maintenance and cleanup of our cells.
So what Mimi was doing in that situation is that it's more or
less behaving as a counterbalance, right?
So you get a lot of stimulation of these pro aging fed pathways
and what mimeo is going to do isit's going to help stimulate the
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fasting beneficial anti aging pathways at the same time to
help kind of restore that homeostatic balance.
But it's not going to, you know,provide the energy restriction
benefits that normal fasting would do.
And it's also, you know, trying to overcome a negative rather
than just boosting a positive. So if you were to take Mimio
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while intermittent fasting, that's more or less the natural
state that the molecules will beoperating in.
They don't have any problems to overcome.
They can just kind of do their jobs more efficiently and really
supercharge those benefits. But it's not going to be, you
know, it's not going to be the same when you're taking Mimio
with a meal as like a true 36 hour fast.
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We also identified, you know, within the larger data set that
there were over 300 molecules that were significantly up
regulated during a 36 hour fast,right.
And we found this very this verypowerful combination of four of
those molecules that could recreate a lot of these cellular
benefits of fasting. But that still leaves, you know,
(31:20):
hundreds of other molecules thataren't represented in our
formula and might have their ownreally interesting and unique
effects. We just don't know about them
yet. So Mimio's not fully recreating
what's happening in the body during a fast or the energy
restriction components of it. So those deeper states of
fasting are going to be more powerful.
(31:41):
But the caveat to that is you have to actually do the fasting
if you want those benefits, right?
And a lot of people can't do that, right?
A 46 hour fast is really, reallydaunting, even a 24 hour fast,
right? Like a one meal a day kind of
schedule is really daunting for most people and let alone a 4872
multi day, you know, five day fast kind of situation.
(32:04):
So that's where Mimea was reallycoming in and providing that
value is that we can help give you some of those beneficial
effects of fasting without actually having to change your
diet and lifestyle. And that's what we saw in our
clinical study, right? There's 8 weeks of Mimio
supplementation. Without any other changes, we're
able to produce these really significant metabolic effects.
(32:26):
What are your thoughts for like an athletic population where,
you know, training might tend tointerfere with the concept of
intermittent fasting or, you know, being able to do that
because you need the calories when you kind of need the
calories, you need to eat more than, you know, just a couple
meals a day. What are your thoughts on how
this might benefit the longevityof an athlete?
(32:47):
I think this would be definitelybeneficial for the longevity of
an athlete, especially as you said, when they have to adhere
to a pretty strict and robust nutritional regimen, right?
A 72 hour fast is really not going to be a feasible for a
high performing elite athlete, right?
So something like mimeo can be really beneficial there.
(33:07):
And what we have seen anecdotally and in a couple of
clinical studies is that the PEAthat's in mimeo has been shown
to be helpful for exercise performance as well as recovery.
So the, you know, the pain relief, discomfort relief
elements of the pulmon soil ethanolamide can be really
(33:29):
helpful for reducing muscle soreness, right?
Or just even helping people kindof like get that extra Rep in,
get that extra set in because there's not as much of that like
muscle pain feedback, right? So you can get higher string
outputs. And that's on the anecdotal
side. Something that we hear a lot,
especially from older men who are taking Mimeo, is that they
(33:51):
see strength increases in the gym.
They can run faster or harder orlonger.
The story that I like to tell about that is one of our
investors was trying out Mimeo before he actually invested in
the company. He was like, all right, does
this work? You know, are these guys legit?
So he took, he took Mimeo beforegoing on a cycle ride that he
(34:13):
was doing with a bunch of his friends on a course that he's
done before. And he's told us that, you know,
he was able to like pretty immediately feel it within an
hour of taking it and set a personal record on that course,
like beat out all of his friends.
And after that he was like, OK, yeah, like I'm hooked.
Like, this is this was great. I want to, I want to keep this
going. Right.
So that's kind of how we could be impacting the the athletic
(34:39):
and the performance side of things as well.
And that makes sense when you think about again, like what
mimeo is doing at a biochemical cellular level, like optimizing
this metabolic function, making sure that your cells are running
clean, that we're reducing all of the damage that can be coming
from mitochondrial over activation during these states
of exercise, right? All of that oxidative damage,
(35:01):
the reactive oxygen species thatcan come out of over indexing on
energy production during intensebouts of exercise.
It seems like it could boost both the overload effect as well
as the recovery effect. You know, you can do more
training and in the same vein, you can still kind of recover
more from that greater amount oftraining, which means you're
(35:23):
going to have a greater adaptation in the long run.
Right, exactly. You're going to produce energy
more efficiently, there's going to be less damage that comes
from that energy production, andyou're going to be turning on
better cellular repair mechanisms all at the same time,
right? So really focusing on just
keeping your cells healthy, active and functional for as
(35:44):
long as possible. So how do you recommend that
individuals incorporate mimeo into their daily routine for the
most optimal result? Yeah, that's a great question.
I would say that you can pretty easily use mimeo as a fasting
mimetic, right? You can take it with food and
get those same benefits of fasting and then help to kind of
(36:05):
reduce those negative impacts ofthe postprandial state that we
were talking about before. Kind of those, you know, the
sluggishness that can happen post meal, the bloating that can
happen post meal, the brain fog that can happen post meal,
right? That like afternoon slump is
very real. So that's one way that you can
use Mimio and that's typically how people use it, right?
(36:27):
They, they come to us because they want to get the benefits of
fasting go without actually having to change their
lifestyle. And it's perfect for that.
It can also be of course, used as a fasting enhancer, right?
If you're doing the shorter termfasts where it's more typical
16-8 style intermittent fasting or even 1 meal a day, right?
Anything less than 36 hours mimeo can be helpful to not only
(36:50):
kind of supercharge the benefitsof your shorter term fasts by
giving you molecules you know from these later stages of
fasting, but also can help to make fasting easier, right?
One of the primary difficulties with fasting is just the hunger
and the energy and the, you know, cognition element of of
those early stages of fasting. So Vimeo can really help to
(37:12):
serve as a bridge to help make fasting easier by suppressing
appetite, enhancing cognition, keeping your energy levels
higher. So were there specific
populations? And we talked a little bit about
athletes, and you mentioned older adults, but I'm thinking
like diabetics, obese individuals, young, old.
Are there special populations that might benefit more or the
(37:34):
most from supplementing with mimeo?
That's a great question as well.And that's one that we don't
necessarily have an answer to right now.
When you look at the clinical evidence of the individual
molecules, especially OEA, OEA is really, really good for a lot
of various metabolic conditions.So it's been assessed in pre
diabetes, it's been assessed in obesity, it's been assessed in
(37:58):
non alcoholic fatty liver disorder in PCOS.
And it's shown really great benefits to a lot of metabolic
markers and functional markers as well in all of those cases.
So lots of balancing of glucose levels, insulin levels, HPA, 1C
levels, you know, cholesterol levels of all kinds, including,
(38:19):
you know, decreasing LDL and increasing HDL, which is, you
know, the good cholesterol versus the bad cholesterol
helping to, you know, increase these antioxidant capacities,
these anti-inflammatory effects.Kind of like what we saw in our
study with mimeo, but in more ofa disease context, right?
So folks with metabolic conditions could probably really
(38:41):
benefit from, you know, adding OEA as an adjunct or mimeo as an
adjunct, right? And then in that same vein, the
pulmos oil, ethanolamide with it's kind of, you know,
discomfort pain relief effects along with its anti-inflammatory
effects can be really helpful for things like, you know, an
autoimmune condition or arthritis, arthritis, something
(39:02):
that has a pain element to it. It's been shown to be really
helpful in diabetic neuropathy as well.
So those are some of the populations that, you know,
could get benefit from the molecules that are in the mimeo
formulation. Of course, as a supplement, I
can't say those things officially, right?
(39:23):
I'm not allowed to treat, prevent or delay any disease,
but it could still be helpful for, you know, those, those
cellular health effects as well as kind of these, you know,
symptom relief effects, I would say.
And I appreciate, too that you're not making claims beyond
the literature, which a lot of supplement companies do.
No, yeah, everything that we do here at Mimeo, and that's part
(39:45):
of me, you know, being a PhD scientist founder, right?
Is that everything that we do isalways going to be very above
board, very transparent and veryscientific.
Because I, I can't imagine running a company another way,
right? I've been, I've been
indoctrinated by pharma for so long.
Like this is how you do things is how you prove it out.
You do the clinical studies, youprovide evidence over and over
(40:08):
and over again. And that's how you find
something that actually works. And ultimately it's a harder Rd.
but it's one that provides you with the most benefit, right At
the end of that road, you are going to get to a product that
actually works and actually provides value to people.
And if you can do that, then youwill be a successful business,
(40:30):
right. The the dark side of the
supplement industry is very muchlike, yeah, we can get by on our
branding. We don't have to create anything
new or interesting, and we don'tnecessarily have to provide the
benefit to people that we say that we're providing.
But those companies are going tobe flashes in the pan, right?
If they're not going to provide actual value to you, then
(40:51):
they're just not going to work long term.
And we want Mimeo to be a trusted, you know, health
partner for you and to actually provide value.
And it's not just, you know, it's not just for you.
I'll say this selfishly, right? Like I want my product to work
too, right? Like I want to get these
benefits. I, you know, this has been my
life's work. This is what I've been working
(41:12):
towards, so you know I want it just as badly as you do and I'm
going to be the one to make sureit happens.
So what are the next steps for research and further clinical
trials for the company? Yeah.
So now that we have done this clinical study, then the next is
an even bigger clinical study, right.
That's kind of just how how the science world works is that you
(41:33):
prove that it works in a small population, you prove that it
works in a medium sized population, you prove that it
works in a larger population. And what we'll probably do for
the larger population study is, you know, go something in the
range of like a 100 person, 120 person study and look at how
mimeo effects a metabolic condition, probably, probably
(41:53):
metabolic syndrome specifically where you have this cluster of
symptoms where you have high glucose levels, low cholesterol
levels, high triglyceride levels, you know, increase
adiposity, waist circumference, you know, things like that.
So folks that could really use ametabolic boost and this
metabolic benefit that we've shown that mimeo can provide and
(42:16):
then apply that to them and see how that all works out probably
at a, you know, 8 to 12 week study, study length.
But then beyond that, with the current Mimeo formulation, we
also have our back end biomimetic research platform.
And what we're going to do thereis essentially look at all these
(42:38):
other interesting regenerative states of the body, right?
So fasting was our first one, but Next up will probably be
exercise. And looking at how does
endurance exercise, how does youknow the more like fast twitch,
sprinting exercise affect the body?
And are there unique molecules produced there that we can use
(43:01):
to help recreate these beneficial effects of exercise?
And that's really what Mimeo is designed to be for the long term
is that biomimetic supplement company.
So just like we ran this with fasting, we'll run it with
exercise, we'll run it with meditation, we'll run it with
sleep, we'll run it with cold exposure, and really try to find
these unique clinically derived health and longevity molecules
(43:24):
and formulations so that we can truly, you know, kind of unlock
the power of our biology and putit at our fingertips.
And you're not going to do away with my exercise.
How are? You no yeah, we'll see that
that's that's the thing right isthat it's not a full recreation
and it never will be but we can mimic some of the benefits just
like with fasting. We're never going to be able to,
(43:46):
you know, erase calories right but we can still help tweak that
source code in the cells to helpthem promote these beneficial
pathways and effects even when we're eating and same thing for
exercise. We're never going to be able to
recreate the, you know, the energy restriction effects that
happened during exercise. We're never going to be able to
recreate the, you know, micro tearing of the muscles that are
(44:10):
that happen because of the actual physical stress.
But we can identify these, you know, interesting beneficial
cellular health molecules or things that can enhance strength
and, you know, improve recovery,kind of like we already found
with the fasting. Limit.
I've already heard that a glass of wine is like an hour at the
gym, so somebody's got to beat there.
(44:31):
It's true, yeah. I mean, you know, a general rule
of is that for every, you know, mile you walk or run, that's
around 100 calories. So if you're saying like, you
know, a typical glass of wine, it's like 150 to 200 calories,
something like that. So that's, you know, 2 miles on
the treadmill. Yeah, so you're actually putting
(44:52):
the calories in rather than burning.
And that's why I always loved when I heard that article.
But it is interesting that, you know, there's that possibility
for maybe parts of the population where traditional
exercise isn't at their disposal.
You know, it's people, you know,paraplegics, quadriplegics that
could get some benefits that canhelp with their health and their
(45:13):
longevity that they could get from exercise.
But since they're unable to exercise, they're going to get
some limited benefit from being able to do a more biomimetic
pathway. That's kind of cool.
I'm excited for that. Exactly.
And I think that going back to the question that you had
earlier, who can really benefit especially from these biomimetic
technologies that we're pushing forward are a lot of elderly
(45:36):
folks, right. So people who fasting would be
very beneficial for them, but they're at the stage where they
have to worry about, you know, muscle wasting Kapenia, they
have to worry about frailty, they have to worry about not
losing too much weight or too much bone mass or muscle mass or
whatever it is. So a fasting memetic is perfect
because it's activating, you know, that longevity bio
(45:57):
program, but without actually having to risk these negative
effects that you can get from the energy restriction elements
of fasting. And then like you said, same
with exercise, right? There are plenty of people who
could really benefit from actual, you know, exercise and
strength training and resistancetraining and all that, but are
physically unable to do it. Or they've gotten to the point
(46:19):
where, you know, they have a muscle wasting problem or, or,
or a bone wasting problem or some kind of frailty, right.
And so if we can provide even, you know, 40% of the benefit of
traditional exercise and that would be really impactful or.
Even like 10% can be impact. I mean, any percentage above 0
is going to be somewhat impactedfor an individual who can
(46:41):
exercise. That's pretty cool.
So the study was on healthy overweight in adults.
How do these results transfer orgeneralize to, say, younger or
more healthy weight population? Yeah, it's a great question.
So the best answer that I have for that is going back to our
second clinical study with the mimeo formulation that was
(47:03):
performed in young healthy people.
And that's where we saw that we could mitigate some of those
negative effects of the postprandial state where we
could recreate these benefits offasting even during a meal.
So we know that even within young healthy people, we can
provide immediate metabolic benefit there.
I will say that with any intervention, right, it's this
(47:26):
isn't unique to Mimeo. The unhealthier you are, the
easier it is to create health benefits, right?
And the healthier you are, the harder it is to create health
benefits. So if, you know, we were to look
at this same study in Olympic trained athletes with eight
weeks of supplementation with Mimio, we might not have been
(47:46):
able to see the same level of beneficial effect, right?
I'm sure that we would have seensomething, but probably not the
same kind of deltas that we're working with here.
And then on the flip side of that, if we had been working
with a, you know, metabolic disease population like type 2
diabetes or like NAFLD, right, we probably could have seen even
(48:07):
more impact there. So what I think is most
impactful about the Mimio formulation is that it's helping
you stay within that healthy range, right?
It's really helping you to maintain a healthy metabolism.
And you know, even and that's overtime, right, to really like
combat these forces of of aging to make sure that you're staying
(48:31):
within the health. Yeah.
So it's back to the aging. Well, I mean, it's not something
that an healthy individual starting young is going to see
immediate effects, but over the 10:20, 30-40 years, you suddenly
start to see how you are separating from your, your peers
that are not doing the same things that you're doing to age
(48:52):
well. Right, exactly.
That's something I think that people have lost perspective of
a little bit in the longevity game in general is that
longevity is not about rejuvenation and regeneration or
even like increasing cell turnover, right?
That's something that you see, especially in the skin and
(49:12):
beauty industry is a lot is thatyou're like, oh, we're going to
like enhance cellular turnover, like cellular renewal.
That's actually from a scientific perspective, a very
pro aging effect, right? Cells only have a certain number
of times that they can divide before they become, you know,
dysfunctional or too damaged to survive.
(49:35):
And that's called the Hayflick limit.
So the faster your cells replicate and divide, the faster
they're going to reach the Hayflick limit, which means the
faster they're going to fall into dysfunction is repair and
then eventual death. So anti aging and longevity is
actually about maintenance of that cell for as long as
possible without having to have it divide.
(49:58):
And that's really what we're going for here is that if you
can stretch out the cellular lifespan, then that's going to
eventually lead to a stretching out of an organismal lifespan as
well. So like that whole body effect
is really going to be coming from the cell itself.
I think we've kind of jumped toomuch on the longevity bandwagon
(50:20):
and are kind of missing the point of what we're trying to do
in living longer, that it reallyneeds to be that health span
approach, not just longevity, because yeah, we're getting
people to live longer, but we'redoing it at really the expense
of their health. They're just staying unhealthy
longer. Right, exactly.
And that's what's known as the health span lifespan, right.
(50:41):
And that's kind of the scariest part about aging.
That's the that's always the argument that we get from people
who aren't in the longevity space.
We're like, why would I want to live an extra 10 years after I'm
85, right? Like I'd rather just die.
And, and that because of that fear of like, when do you, how
(51:01):
long do you live in dysfunction and disease and like, you know,
potential pain right after you're like no longer healthy
and youthful and vibrant anymore.
And I think that to your point, Jeff, the real thing that we're
trying to do here in longevity is not to necessarily extend
lifespan, just, you know, for the purpose of extending
(51:23):
lifespan, right? What we want to do is, and what
my goal is in the healthy aging and longevity space is to just
live my life as healthy as possible for as long as
possible. Or like I don't want to fall
into disrepair and disease and you know, all that stuff.
I want to essentially be runninga marathon when I'm 95 and as
(51:46):
soon as I cross the finish line,just like suddenly drop dead.
That's like the best thing that I can think of as an example of
the goal that we're all trying to achieve in the healthy aging
space. Yeah, that's kind of where I am.
And we talk a lot about the the four ages.
And you have the first age is kind of that year of develop,
those years of development and dependency, you know, up through
(52:06):
usually high score and a college.
And then you have second age is where you're coming, that age of
independence, you're building upwealth, you're starting a
family. Third age is that age where
you're now able to capitalize onthe finances that you build up
over the period of time you're in retirement, you can travel,
you can do all these fun things that you couldn't do when you're
having kids. And in fourth age is that age of
(52:27):
decline and decrepitude. And we really want to bring that
fourth age to being as close to nothing as possible.
And like you said, you cross thefinish line and fall over dead.
That is like 0 fourth age. And that's the perfect way to
go. Maybe.
I don't know that I'd want to necessarily die on the finish
line. I'd rather kind of maybe go
home, sit down in my recliner, pop a beer or something, and
(52:49):
then just gently go to sleep. Yeah, we like that too.
You know, as long as it's quick and we don't see it coming,
that's ideal. So.
So Speaking of, and I asked you this question before, are you
still aging well? What are you doing to keep aging
well? I know you're like you're, you
look like you're 20, but I know you're older than that.
That's true. I am.
(53:10):
I am 34. So we'll we'll take that.
I like, I like this my, my general thing for aging well is
I'm still doing one meal a day. That's my schedule.
So even with mimeo, right, I still like to intermittent fast
and I find that it supports me there.
So I'll take mimeo and green teain the morning.
That basically helps me get through my entire day.
(53:32):
I'm very productive, very focused and not thinking about
food. And then at the end of the day,
I kind of get to shut all that off and then go immediately
into, OK, great, now I've got, you know, my entire day's worth
of calories. At the end of it, I can kind of,
you know, do whatever I want, eat whatever I want, kind of
have a, you know, a food reward,as I like to call it.
(53:52):
So that's kind of how I like to how I like to incorporate
intermittent fasting into my life.
And then, you know, exercise, strength training, that's the
big thing for me. I go to the gym, you know, five
times a week and and I focus pretty solely on just
weightlifting and strength training just because we know
(54:13):
that muscle mass going into old age is one of the best
indicators for health, span and longevity.
And then beyond that, it's less wear and tear on your joints
over time. So you're like, you know,
producing less damage, especially if you're doing like
more machine work or controlled things, cable cable exercises,
(54:34):
things like that. So that's, that's kind of like
my, my big thing, right? Like I'm very into the
supplement side of things with mimeo and then traditional diet
and exercise. And you know the the equation is
not that complicated. That's why it's easy in my
field. You know, exercise sciences, you
(54:54):
know it. It can be really narrowed down
to about 6 principles and you'regood to go.
Yeah, exactly. And that's what I found in the
nutrition space too, right? Getting my PhD in nutrition.
And I was like, wow, I can't believe that I spent, you know,
these past seven years basicallyto learn what I already knew in
first grade, right? Where it's like, oh, yeah, eat,
eat your fruits, eat your vegetables, colorful things.
(55:16):
Don't eat too much. You know, stay away from red
meats and processed foods. Good.
As we it's as good as we have and it's probably as good as
we'll have for a very long time.So, Doctor Rhodes, how can our
listeners connect with you and learn a little bit more about
Mimio? Yep, if they want mimeo, they
can come to our website. That's MIMIO health.com if they
(55:40):
want to learn more about me. My bio and the rest of the teams
bio are on the website as well. Or started.
The Aging Well Podcast. I guess that.
Doctor Christopher Rocks cofounder and CEO Health in
episode 196 Doctor Rhodes shared.
Insights into how fast I was early fasting mimicking diamond
was profoundly into in cellular processes boost metabolic.
(56:01):
Health and potentially extend lifespan.
He returns in this episode to update us on the research into
fasting biomimetics. And how these may improve?
Hunger, Appetite control, Glucose levels, Cholesterol.
Levels and more never and. You're curious about optimizing
the health or looking for innovative ways to age?
Well, this episode offers valuable perspectives from a
(56:23):
leader in the field. So thank you for joining us.
Is there anything that we missedthat you kind of need to
finalize to tell our listeners and viewers?
No, I think that is everything. Got it really well covered.
All right, well, we'll have you back on and I'm trying to think
how long ago was you were on thelast time, but.
Whenever the next study is. As soon as more information
(56:44):
comes out, just let me know and we'll get you back on here.
So again, I've really enjoyed this and, you know, just keep
doing what you're doing and keepaging well.
Perfect. Thanks, Jeff.
Thanks for having me. Thank you for listening.
I hope you benefited from today's podcast and until next
time, keep aging well.
In this episode of the Aging Well podcast, my guest is Doctor
Christopher Rhodes, Co Founder and CEO of Mimeo Health.
In episode 196, Doctor Rhodes shared insights into how fasting
and fasting mimicking diets and profoundly influence cellular
processes, boost metabolic health, and potentially extend
lifespan. He returns in this episode to
(00:29):
update us on the research into fasting biomimetics and how
these may improve hunger, appetite control, glucose
levels, cholesterol levels, and more.
Whether you're curious about optimizing your health or
looking for innovative ways to age well, this episode offers
valuable perspectives from a leader in the field.
Well, Doctor Rhodes, welcome back to the Aging Well podcast.
(00:51):
Let's begin by having you just kind of refresh our viewers and
listeners on Mimeo, health and fasting, memetics, and even a
little bit more about kind of what who you are and what you
are. Yeah, absolutely.
So I'm Doctor Chris Rhodes, got my PhD in nutritional
biochemistry at UC Davis, and I'm also the CEO and scientific
(01:13):
founder of Mimeo Health. And Mimeo is a biomimetic
supplement company. So basically what that means is
we study actual human biology inthese interesting regenerative
states of the body, whether that's fasting or exercise or
sleep or cold exposure, things like that, and basically try to
(01:35):
tease out what's happening in the body during these
interesting regenerative states.And is there a way that we can
recreate those benefits? But you know, on demand in
supplement form, rather than having to, let's say, fast for
36 hours, right? So our, our first product is
Mimio. It's a fasting memetic, like you
(01:56):
said, and it was designed from 7years of clinical research into
human fasting. And basically what we found
there was that when people fast for 36 hours, there's this
unique set of molecules that areproduced by the body that are
really only elevated during a fast.
And we found that those were theones responsible for activating
(02:17):
a lot of these beneficial cellular health and longevity
effects of fasting. So we basically isolated those
molecules, put them into a dailysupplement so that you can
basically recreate fasting at the molecular level, get those
same benefits, but without actually having to fast.
(02:38):
And that's Mimio. And why is fasting an important
factor in aging well? Yeah, that's a great question.
So fasting is one of the only methods that we know of right
now to reliably extend lifespan in model organisms.
And generally the best that we see with that is the approach of
alternate day fasting. So you know, one day of normal
(03:01):
eating, one day of fasting, one day of normal eating, one day of
fasting repeated throughout an organism's entire life.
And what that usually equates tois, is around, you know, these
periods of 36 hours of fasting, right?
And you can have water in between those fluids are always,
you know, permitted during, during fasting.
(03:21):
And you can see anywhere betweena, you know, 30 to 80% lifespan
extension in these, in these model organisms, depending on
what the animal is with fasting and without having to reduce
calories, which is really interesting when you dive even
deeper into the beneficial effects of fasting.
(03:42):
It goes beyond lifespan as well because it's also treating
health span. So it's helping to treat,
prevent or delay in most major diseases.
There's the really robust history around it for, you know,
neurodegenerative diseases, cancer, autoimmune diseases,
cardiovascular disease, things like that.
So basically, you name it, fasting has been shown to help
(04:05):
with it. So that was really interesting
to me as a scientist and a researcher.
When I got into the healthy aging and longevity space, it
was very much like, here's this one thing that does everything
and it's not something that you're adding into the system,
right? It's not a superfood or a wonder
drug, but somehow fasting is activating this, you know,
(04:28):
beneficial, as I call it, longevity bio program, basically
optimizing all of your cellular functionalities for health
regeneration and survival. So that was one of the reasons
why fasting was really, really compelling to me as something
that we need to, you know, research and tease out and see
if there is a is a way that we can activate all those same
(04:50):
benefits on. Demand, I know I probably asked
this in our previous conversation, but for those who
might have missed it, can you explain how Mimio Healths
technology supports cellular health and longevity and how it
differs from fasting and other fasting mimicking approaches?
And then we talked about some ofthe other approaches in that
previous conversation. Yeah, absolutely.
(05:12):
So Mimio is a fasting memetic inthe very true sense of the term.
It is taking what your body would naturally do during a fast
and giving it back to you in supplement form.
So we're literally just mimicking what your body would
naturally do during a fast. And then those molecules go on
(05:33):
to have their own bio active abilities and activate these
cellular benefits of fasting. So that's very distinct from
anything else that is on the market.
We're the only company in the supplement space right now
that's taking this biomimetic approach, right?
Actually studying what happens in humans and trying to find
(05:54):
ways to recreate that and other products that are out there.
Fasting mimicking diet is the major one.
Prolong, right? And how we're different from
Prolong is essentially that Prolong is a 5 day nutritional
cleanse essentially. So you know, they're giving you
(06:15):
5 days worth of these, you know,pre made nutrition health meal
plan packets kind of thing. The caveat to that is that
they're giving you something in the range of 700 to 1000
calories per day. So it is very severe caloric
restriction. So the way that the fasting
mimicking diet, you know, mimicsfasting is by #1 really, really
(06:38):
reducing calories, right? Kind of almost like you are
fasting. And then they give you a
specific set of foods and nutrients that have been dialed
in to not activate your or not like, you know, break your fast
essentially. So not activate your
carbohydrate metabolism or your fed metabolism, things that
(06:59):
would, you know, ordinarily physiologically take your body
out of a fast. So with Prolong, it's a five day
program where you're getting, you know, really reduced
calories and you know, taking inthis special diet versus mimeo
that is taking what your body would naturally produce during a
fast and just giving it back to you so that you can get those
same benefits even when you are eating.
(07:21):
You don't have to change your lifestyle.
You don't to change your diet inany way.
So it's a daily consistent supplement that you would take
rather than a five day meal plan.
So from a cellular perspective, what are the differences between
intermittent fasting and prolonged fasting?
It's a great question. So fasting and definitely has a
(07:43):
gradiation of effects depending on how long you do it, right.
And a lot of that comes down to the fact that it takes around 20
to 24 hours in order for your body to do your glycogen stores,
which are essentially your stored carbohydrates in your
body. So up until that 20 to 24 hour
(08:03):
mark, you're not going to see dramatically different changes
in your biochemistry, your metabolism, how your Physiology
really works and operates because your body's going to be
harvesting glucose, which is what it prefers to you from all
of these glycogen stores and kind of using that as your
primary fuel source. Once you deplete those glycogen
(08:23):
stores at around 20 to 24 hours,that's when you really get into
the initial stages of, you know,true physiological fasting.
So you don't have any more glucose stores to draw on
anymore. Your body's going to start
mobilizing fat, using that to produce ketones and then have
this big metabolic switch that happens from, you know, that fed
(08:45):
state carbohydrate metabolism into fasting ketosis and this
energy restriction metabolism. As you progress further into
fasting, things kind of change even more.
And we don't have a ton of greatscientific data about what
really happens in the body afteraround 72 hours worth of
(09:07):
fasting. But after that 24 hour mark, as
you progress, you'll basically see greater and greater
anti-inflammatory effects, you know, these effects on immune
cell regeneration and stem cell progenation.
You'll see increases in autophagy that happened, which
is essentially our cellular cleanup and recycling programs.
(09:29):
A lot of these metabolic efficiency pathways that are
being turned on to try and conserve energy, right?
And make sure that without food,we're continuing to survive.
So it's a lot of kind of like a reset to homeostasis for your
system. We're not having all of these
external factors that are, you know, really disrupting the
(09:51):
system, right? So we can get back to all right.
We're just going to focus on maintaining, cleaning, repairing
and the the survival of the cells that we do have because we
don't have enough energy to makea new cell if something goes
wrong. Really the reason we have you on
the podcast again is to talk a little bit more about some of
(10:13):
this new research that you all have been doing.
So maybe I recently partnered with was it People Science in a
random controlled study? Can you give us kind of a high
level overview of the study and its purpose?
Yeah, absolutely. So in the in the progression of
mimeo science, this is our thirdclinical study.
So our first clinical study was essentially our discovery study
(10:36):
where we looked at what happens in the body during a 36 hour
fast. We were able to identify the
Mimeo formulation and show that it can recreate these cellular
health benefits of fasting in human cells and then also extend
the lifespan in model organisms by 96%, so basically doubling
their lifespan just through supplementation.
(10:57):
That was kind of our original clinical study.
We were really excited about those results.
The next step for us was our second clinical study, which is
called a pilot study, basically just making sure that all right,
let's take these molecules, let's actually give them to
people, make sure that they showup in circulation, that they're
properly absorbed, that they're utilized and see what their
(11:18):
short term effects are. So what we did for that study
was we had people come in, eat astandardized breakfast with a
placebo control and looked at their plasma functionalities.
And then we had those same people come back after a washout
period, eat that same standardized breakfast, but then
with supplementation with mimeo.And what we saw there was that
(11:40):
when people ate alongside the placebo, there was this big loss
in their plasma and cellular functionalities, which is
really, really common. It's part of the postprandial
state, the post eating state. So when you think about it, you
have a lot of nutrients and foreign molecules that are
coming into the system when we eat, kind of throwing the system
in the metabolic chaos, knockingus out of homeostasis, creating
(12:04):
these pro inflammatory responses.
So it's not great for optimal cellular functioning.
So we saw that their plasma became pro inflammatory and less
antioxidant and less cardio protective.
But when they ate that same meal, but then with
supplementation with mimeo, we were able to not only prevent
(12:25):
all of that loss of function, but then add gains of function
on top of that that mimicked what we saw when people fasted.
So instead of being pro inflammatory, their plasma
became anti angry and anti antioxidant and cardio
protective, which was really amazing.
So we were able to show in that study that the ingredients are
bioavailable, they can be absorbed.
(12:46):
We know what their what their pharmaconetics pharmacokinetics
as it's called, are. And then we were also able to
show that even in the short termwe can recreate these beneficial
effects of fasting even when people are eating.
And so that launched us into RA.We know that it works in human
cells. We know that it has these
longevity effects. We know that we can mimic
(13:08):
fasting even during a meal in the short term.
What are the longer term benefits that we might be able
to get from this formulation? And that is our latest third
clinical study. And for that one, we looked at
just normal healthy older folks 50 to 75 years old and equal
(13:31):
distribution of men and women. We had 42 people total in the
study. And this was a randomized,
double-blind, placebo-controlledstudy just looking at what
happens when people take mimeo for eight weeks or a placebo for
8 weeks. And what we saw there was
really, really impressive. We were basically able to show
(13:53):
that with eight weeks of supplementation, we had really
dramatic improvements to hunger control, satiety, reduced
cravings, reduced food noise, less overall and maximal daily
hunger. So a lot of these, you know,
appetite control benefits, we were able to show that we could
(14:15):
reduce intestinal pain and bloating over those eight weeks.
And then really significantly, when we're looking at the blood
markers, we can also see a lot of metabolic control factors
that are happening as well. So we were able to improve
fasting glucose levels, We were able to improve total
cholesterol levels, LDL cholesterol levels, specifically
(14:38):
LDL particle number, which is, you know, even more indicative
of cardiovascular disease risk. And then we were able to improve
overall oxidative stress status as well.
So basically, you know, how stressed are your cells?
It's a, you know, one of the primary reasons that we age is
an accumulation of oxidative stress and damage over time.
(14:58):
So being able to reduce that is really kind of showing you the
longevity potential of the molecules themselves.
So, you know, we're really, really happy to be able to get
these both, you know, pretty significant metabolic health
effects, these cardio protectiveeffects and these longevity
effects from this new eight weekclinical study.
So were there any results that were kind of unexpected or
(15:21):
anything that really stood out at you is were surprising or
just a bit more more exciting than you thought it would be?
Yeah, we definitely didn't expect to see the reductions in
bloating and abdominal pain, right, Because that's, you know,
that's something that we were asking.
But it wasn't like a primary outcome that we were like, yes,
we know that mimeo does these things.
(15:44):
So that was the that was probably the most interesting to
to look at. And then the appetite control
element of it too. It's not totally surprising.
The oleoil ethanolamide OEA that's in mimeo has been shown
in previous clinical studies to have these appetite suppression
effects. But what was really interesting
(16:05):
to see when you looked at the data was how that kind of
manifests itself. So when we think about, you
know, hunger control, we're thinking about like, OK, cool, I
took it and I immediately had this big drop in, in hunger or
this big increase in satiety, right?
Like I can't eat as much. I feel fuller longer or I'm just
(16:25):
like, not hungry at all. And there is that effect, but
it's very, it's like a subtle day-to-day kind of thing.
So when we look at the the dailyhunger inputs, what we saw was
that when we started the study, they were pretty high and then
got, you know, significantly lower over time.
But within that day-to-day, there's a lot of ups and downs,
(16:46):
right? So as you're constantly, it's
kind of like walking a staircase, right?
It's like, okay, down, down, down, down, down, but it's not a
totally like straight line. And that was probably the most
interesting piece of the data tosee because it does very much
reflect how consumers can sometimes describe the product,
right? It's like they don't notice the
(17:06):
day-to-day differences because from one day to the next, you
know, it's a little step down. It's not a huge change.
But when you look at the data over those eight weeks, it does
become a huge change, even if people don't, you know,
naturally even notice it. And that is, I think, a really
good just, you know, metaphor, analogy, example of how
(17:29):
supplements and cellular health kind of work in general, right?
It's like even when you don't notice these, you know, severe
day-to-day hour to hour differences that are happening
when things are working at the cellular level, you'll see that,
you know, change over time. So refresh the listener to how
does Mimio mimic the effects of fasting at the biochemical
(17:50):
level? I know you kind of touched on
this a little bit, but just to kind of really clarify to them
what's going on is they take thesupplement.
Yeah. So what's going on is
essentially Mimeo has four ingredients in it that we
identified were elevated in the body during a 36 hour fast.
And we found that each of those molecules individually could
(18:12):
mimic a certain or recreate a certain facet of fasting, right?
So Spermidean, for example, is really well known for helping to
support and enhance autophagy. NAD, the nicotinamide that we
have in there, it's an NAD precursor that's really well
known for enhancing NAD levels, which then goes on to kind of
(18:34):
promote a lot of these epigenetic and translational
changes that are supportive of this, you know, fasting and
caloric restriction, energy restriction pathways that help
lead to these metabolic efficiency things and survival
within cells. So what Mimi was doing is
(18:55):
basically, you know, taking these molecules that we
identified from the fasting state and then further
identified have these synergistic effects together to
activate these complementary pathways in order to recreate
what would happen in a cell in the body during an actual 36
hour fast. So kind of what we were talking
about before, the nicotinamide that's in Mimeo is working to
(19:18):
enhance NAD levels. NAD is the primary energy
sensing molecule within cells. So if you have a high proportion
of NAD plus, that's basically a signal to your cells that
there's not a lot of energy around.
So we need to turn on these energy restriction and recycling
(19:39):
mechanisms, these metabolic efficiency pathways that
ultimately help lead to survival.
What spermidine is doing is activating autophagy and which
is also what you would see in fasting.
The palmettoial ethanolamide that's in mimeo is essentially
kind of like your body's rest and repair molecule.
So it has a lot of these immunomodulatory effects,
(20:01):
reducing inflammation, helping to reduce pain.
Working through Cox one and two inhibitions.
So kind of like your body's natural ibuprofen to a certain
degree. But what's also really
interesting is that it's part ofthe endocannabinoid system.
So it's also signaling through CB1 and CB2 receptors.
So kind of like your body's natural CBD at the same time it
(20:22):
has these mood enhancement effects, it has these cognition
enhancement effects, it has thisreally profound effect on neuro
inflammation. So that's kind of operating as
this, you know, anti-inflammatory portion of
what fasting can do. And then finally we have the
oleo ethanolamide, that's an mimeo, the OEA and that's
(20:43):
basically serving as a stand in for the metabolic effects that
you would experience during a fast.
So what's really interesting about OEA is that when it was
originally identified, it was identified as a satiety factor
after people people ate a meal. So it would, you know, it would
increase about, you know, one totwo hours after taking a meal,
(21:03):
but then disappear after that. And people thought that that was
the only time that OEA was really up regulated just as a
way to help, you know, tell yourbody, OK, there's food in the
system so we don't have to eat anymore.
What we found was that it was really, really highly up
regulated also in fasting. And we think that this is
basically an evolutionary adaptation so that your body
(21:27):
doesn't feel, like, painfully hungry all the time when you're
fasting, right? Because that's not a great way
to support an organism's health.It's like, all right, great,
there's no food around. We're going to cripple you with
hunger so that you can't go out there and find, you know,
berries or hunt down that gazelle or whatever it is.
So during fasting, you get this big spike in OEA as your body's
(21:49):
natural way to say, all right, we're not going to be hungry.
So that you can focus on doing the things that you actually
have to do to survive, which is really, really cool.
So OEA is producing those satiety effects, those appetite
suppression effects, but then also activating PPAR alpha,
which is essentially telling cells and telling your body to
(22:10):
prioritize fat metabolism and beta oxidation.
So basically helping your cells get that metabolic switch that
happens during a fast as well. So all these things are kind of
coming together to, like I said,activate these complementary
pathways and then recreate thesecellular effects, these cellular
(22:32):
benefits, and then these whole body benefits that you would
experience during fasting but can now get just through
supplementation. OK, I'm geeking out on all this
because I'm a PhD too. And, you know, a lot of our
listeners are probably sitting there thinking, OK, you guys are
doctors. You know, this stuff.
You're throwing all these chemical words at us and these
(22:52):
biochemical pathways and everything else.
What can you tell the average listener?
You know if you take Mimeo, thisis what you can expect in your
body and this is going to be thelong term effects of taking this
supplement. That's a great question too.
There's A and there's a lot of answers to that.
So I love doing my job as a scientist for mimeo and working
(23:15):
with these molecules and these ingredients specifically because
they're so well clinically validated.
There's over 100 studies that have looked at the individual
ingredients on their own and kind of their efficacies across
a wide range of conditions and indications.
So there's a ton of things that people could experience and
(23:36):
could expect from mimeo based on, you know, the clinical
studies that we've done. The major things that people can
expect are, you know, this appetite suppression effect,
this improvement in digestion and digestive symptoms, but then
also, you know, the, the balancing of a lot of these very
important cardio metabolic risk factors like the glucose levels
(23:59):
and the cholesterol levels, the LDL levels, the ox LDL levels,
the oxidative stress levels, thetotal antioxidant capacity of
the plasma, right? So we're really creating these
anti-inflammatory, antioxidant, cardio protective effects,
right? Beyond that, we've also seen
from the clinical studies with the individual ingredients that
(24:22):
there are these cognitive enhancement effects.
There's these muscle performance, exercise
performance and recovery benefits to it.
There can be a weight loss benefit as well.
There can be a strength increasein energy increase coming from
the NAD levels. And then spermidine is usually a
little bit more of the subtler one, right?
(24:43):
Like it's, since it's promoting autophagy, it's kind of
activating more at the cellular level unless at the
physiological level. But there have been some
clinical studies there showing enhancement in cognition, memory
and focus as well. So that's kind of what people
can expect from Mimio is that it's basically helping to merge
(25:03):
these metabolic benefits together with the cellular
health and longevity benefits. And how that manifests typically
is with the appetite suppressionaffects, the energy enhancement
affects, the cognitive enhancement affects, and then
also for people who have kind ofthose aches and pains of getting
(25:25):
older, right? If it's, you know,
osteoarthritis or just, you know, general wear and tear in
the system, usually you can see a lot of pain relief there as
well. And that's coming from the Palma
Toil ethanolamide, which has been really well clinically
validated for its ability to behave as a natural pain.
Relief. So in a nutshell, you can say
(25:46):
it'll help the individual age well.
Exactly, it'll help them age well.
We'll optimize your metabolism for longevity.
Yeah. I mean, listening this, it's
like the long term benefits are so important there.
I mean, you are going to have a suppressed appetite, so you're
going to tend to eat less, whichmakes it a little bit more
easier to be in a caloric deficit, to lose weight, but
(26:08):
also to be in that more chronically caloric restricted
state. But also to be able to up the
metabolism in ways that you're going to benefit cell health and
cognitive health. And the list goes on and on and
on. It's really kind of exciting to
kind of listen to all this. And so this was a study that
included 42 healthy overweight men and women with elevated HBA
(26:33):
1C levels. The sample size probably a
little bit too small, but were there any notable differences in
the results based on demographics like age or gender?
Yeah, we didn't see any. We didn't see any differences
based on age or gender. It seemed to pretty well work
for everybody, which was great. One major thing that we did see
(26:55):
is that, and that's like anotherinteresting thing that we didn't
really expect. It works, it works better in
women for the appetite suppression effects than it does
for men, even though everybody, you know, there wasn't any
significant differences. But what we saw was that women
hit more metrics than men did interms of being able to like feel
(27:17):
that appetite suppression and increase in satiety.
And I think that that's really important to note because what
we hear all the time anecdotallyin the fasting world is that
women have a much harder time fasting than men do.
And because, you know, there's all this influence of the
hormonal cycles, the menstrual cycle on how women experience
(27:39):
hunger and how women, you know, experience just like day-to-day
biochemistry, right? Mimeo has also, on our side,
been really helpful for helping women to enhance their fasts or,
you know, get more benefits fromtheir intermittent fasting or
just help make fasting itself easier.
So that's something that we see all the time is that we have
(28:00):
women come to us who are like, Ireally want to try intermittent
fasting. I really want the benefits of
it, but I just find it really difficult to do.
And I, you know, get really hungry really quickly.
And when I take mimeo that just kind of goes away.
So I can actually do like a one meal a day program if I want to,
or I can just, you know, do the intermittent fasting and not be
(28:21):
so miserable all. The time that's fascinating
because you know, I guess you, you think of with women, it is
going to be naturally protectiveto not be, not eating right
because you, you want to be. If you're going to be
reproductive, you got to be in ahealthy state.
You have to have nutrients. Right.
Yeah, and. So don't want to not eat.
So how do these findings compareto traditional fasting methods
(28:43):
in terms of the health benefits?Yeah, that's a great question as
well. So I would say that, you know,
fasting in and of itself, especially if you're doing
something in the range of these deeper states of fasting, right,
a 36 hour fast, a 48 hour fast, a 72 hour fast, though, those
are going to be more powerful interventions than mimeo on its
own, right? Especially if you're taking
(29:04):
mimeo alongside food. Because what's basically
happening in that system, as we saw in our second clinical
study, is that eating in and of itself has a lot of these
negative impacts on inflammatorystatus, antioxidant status,
metabolic status, right? So we're almost constantly in
that fed state, especially in the Western world where we have
(29:27):
our three meals a day plus snacks, right?
It takes around 4:00 to 6:00 hours in order for the body to
resolve those negative effects of the postprandial state and
return back to homeostasis. So when we think about that
three meals a day plus snacks, you know, we're eating almost
every three hours. So we're never throughout being
the course of our entire day ever getting back to that
(29:50):
homeostasis where we can kind offocus again on the repair and
maintenance and cleanup of our cells.
So what Mimi was doing in that situation is that it's more or
less behaving as a counterbalance, right?
So you get a lot of stimulation of these pro aging fed pathways
and what mimeo is going to do isit's going to help stimulate the
(30:12):
fasting beneficial anti aging pathways at the same time to
help kind of restore that homeostatic balance.
But it's not going to, you know,provide the energy restriction
benefits that normal fasting would do.
And it's also, you know, trying to overcome a negative rather
than just boosting a positive. So if you were to take Mimio
(30:37):
while intermittent fasting, that's more or less the natural
state that the molecules will beoperating in.
They don't have any problems to overcome.
They can just kind of do their jobs more efficiently and really
supercharge those benefits. But it's not going to be, you
know, it's not going to be the same when you're taking Mimio
with a meal as like a true 36 hour fast.
(30:59):
We also identified, you know, within the larger data set that
there were over 300 molecules that were significantly up
regulated during a 36 hour fast,right.
And we found this very this verypowerful combination of four of
those molecules that could recreate a lot of these cellular
benefits of fasting. But that still leaves, you know,
(31:20):
hundreds of other molecules thataren't represented in our
formula and might have their ownreally interesting and unique
effects. We just don't know about them
yet. So Mimio's not fully recreating
what's happening in the body during a fast or the energy
restriction components of it. So those deeper states of
fasting are going to be more powerful.
(31:41):
But the caveat to that is you have to actually do the fasting
if you want those benefits, right?
And a lot of people can't do that, right?
A 46 hour fast is really, reallydaunting, even a 24 hour fast,
right? Like a one meal a day kind of
schedule is really daunting for most people and let alone a 4872
multi day, you know, five day fast kind of situation.
(32:04):
So that's where Mimea was reallycoming in and providing that
value is that we can help give you some of those beneficial
effects of fasting without actually having to change your
diet and lifestyle. And that's what we saw in our
clinical study, right? There's 8 weeks of Mimio
supplementation. Without any other changes, we're
able to produce these really significant metabolic effects.
(32:26):
What are your thoughts for like an athletic population where,
you know, training might tend tointerfere with the concept of
intermittent fasting or, you know, being able to do that
because you need the calories when you kind of need the
calories, you need to eat more than, you know, just a couple
meals a day. What are your thoughts on how
this might benefit the longevityof an athlete?
(32:47):
I think this would be definitelybeneficial for the longevity of
an athlete, especially as you said, when they have to adhere
to a pretty strict and robust nutritional regimen, right?
A 72 hour fast is really not going to be a feasible for a
high performing elite athlete, right?
So something like mimeo can be really beneficial there.
(33:07):
And what we have seen anecdotally and in a couple of
clinical studies is that the PEAthat's in mimeo has been shown
to be helpful for exercise performance as well as recovery.
So the, you know, the pain relief, discomfort relief
elements of the pulmon soil ethanolamide can be really
(33:29):
helpful for reducing muscle soreness, right?
Or just even helping people kindof like get that extra Rep in,
get that extra set in because there's not as much of that like
muscle pain feedback, right? So you can get higher string
outputs. And that's on the anecdotal
side. Something that we hear a lot,
especially from older men who are taking Mimeo, is that they
(33:51):
see strength increases in the gym.
They can run faster or harder orlonger.
The story that I like to tell about that is one of our
investors was trying out Mimeo before he actually invested in
the company. He was like, all right, does
this work? You know, are these guys legit?
So he took, he took Mimeo beforegoing on a cycle ride that he
(34:13):
was doing with a bunch of his friends on a course that he's
done before. And he's told us that, you know,
he was able to like pretty immediately feel it within an
hour of taking it and set a personal record on that course,
like beat out all of his friends.
And after that he was like, OK, yeah, like I'm hooked.
Like, this is this was great. I want to, I want to keep this
going. Right.
So that's kind of how we could be impacting the the athletic
(34:39):
and the performance side of things as well.
And that makes sense when you think about again, like what
mimeo is doing at a biochemical cellular level, like optimizing
this metabolic function, making sure that your cells are running
clean, that we're reducing all of the damage that can be coming
from mitochondrial over activation during these states
of exercise, right? All of that oxidative damage,
(35:01):
the reactive oxygen species thatcan come out of over indexing on
energy production during intensebouts of exercise.
It seems like it could boost both the overload effect as well
as the recovery effect. You know, you can do more
training and in the same vein, you can still kind of recover
more from that greater amount oftraining, which means you're
(35:23):
going to have a greater adaptation in the long run.
Right, exactly. You're going to produce energy
more efficiently, there's going to be less damage that comes
from that energy production, andyou're going to be turning on
better cellular repair mechanisms all at the same time,
right? So really focusing on just
keeping your cells healthy, active and functional for as
(35:44):
long as possible. So how do you recommend that
individuals incorporate mimeo into their daily routine for the
most optimal result? Yeah, that's a great question.
I would say that you can pretty easily use mimeo as a fasting
mimetic, right? You can take it with food and
get those same benefits of fasting and then help to kind of
(36:05):
reduce those negative impacts ofthe postprandial state that we
were talking about before. Kind of those, you know, the
sluggishness that can happen post meal, the bloating that can
happen post meal, the brain fog that can happen post meal,
right? That like afternoon slump is
very real. So that's one way that you can
use Mimio and that's typically how people use it, right?
(36:27):
They, they come to us because they want to get the benefits of
fasting go without actually having to change their
lifestyle. And it's perfect for that.
It can also be of course, used as a fasting enhancer, right?
If you're doing the shorter termfasts where it's more typical
16-8 style intermittent fasting or even 1 meal a day, right?
Anything less than 36 hours mimeo can be helpful to not only
(36:50):
kind of supercharge the benefitsof your shorter term fasts by
giving you molecules you know from these later stages of
fasting, but also can help to make fasting easier, right?
One of the primary difficulties with fasting is just the hunger
and the energy and the, you know, cognition element of of
those early stages of fasting. So Vimeo can really help to
(37:12):
serve as a bridge to help make fasting easier by suppressing
appetite, enhancing cognition, keeping your energy levels
higher. So were there specific
populations? And we talked a little bit about
athletes, and you mentioned older adults, but I'm thinking
like diabetics, obese individuals, young, old.
Are there special populations that might benefit more or the
(37:34):
most from supplementing with mimeo?
That's a great question as well.And that's one that we don't
necessarily have an answer to right now.
When you look at the clinical evidence of the individual
molecules, especially OEA, OEA is really, really good for a lot
of various metabolic conditions.So it's been assessed in pre
diabetes, it's been assessed in obesity, it's been assessed in
(37:58):
non alcoholic fatty liver disorder in PCOS.
And it's shown really great benefits to a lot of metabolic
markers and functional markers as well in all of those cases.
So lots of balancing of glucose levels, insulin levels, HPA, 1C
levels, you know, cholesterol levels of all kinds, including,
(38:19):
you know, decreasing LDL and increasing HDL, which is, you
know, the good cholesterol versus the bad cholesterol
helping to, you know, increase these antioxidant capacities,
these anti-inflammatory effects.Kind of like what we saw in our
study with mimeo, but in more ofa disease context, right?
So folks with metabolic conditions could probably really
(38:41):
benefit from, you know, adding OEA as an adjunct or mimeo as an
adjunct, right? And then in that same vein, the
pulmos oil, ethanolamide with it's kind of, you know,
discomfort pain relief effects along with its anti-inflammatory
effects can be really helpful for things like, you know, an
autoimmune condition or arthritis, arthritis, something
(39:02):
that has a pain element to it. It's been shown to be really
helpful in diabetic neuropathy as well.
So those are some of the populations that, you know,
could get benefit from the molecules that are in the mimeo
formulation. Of course, as a supplement, I
can't say those things officially, right?
(39:23):
I'm not allowed to treat, prevent or delay any disease,
but it could still be helpful for, you know, those, those
cellular health effects as well as kind of these, you know,
symptom relief effects, I would say.
And I appreciate, too that you're not making claims beyond
the literature, which a lot of supplement companies do.
No, yeah, everything that we do here at Mimeo, and that's part
(39:45):
of me, you know, being a PhD scientist founder, right?
Is that everything that we do isalways going to be very above
board, very transparent and veryscientific.
Because I, I can't imagine running a company another way,
right? I've been, I've been
indoctrinated by pharma for so long.
Like this is how you do things is how you prove it out.
You do the clinical studies, youprovide evidence over and over
(40:08):
and over again. And that's how you find
something that actually works. And ultimately it's a harder Rd.
but it's one that provides you with the most benefit, right At
the end of that road, you are going to get to a product that
actually works and actually provides value to people.
And if you can do that, then youwill be a successful business,
(40:30):
right. The the dark side of the
supplement industry is very muchlike, yeah, we can get by on our
branding. We don't have to create anything
new or interesting, and we don'tnecessarily have to provide the
benefit to people that we say that we're providing.
But those companies are going tobe flashes in the pan, right?
If they're not going to provide actual value to you, then
(40:51):
they're just not going to work long term.
And we want Mimeo to be a trusted, you know, health
partner for you and to actually provide value.
And it's not just, you know, it's not just for you.
I'll say this selfishly, right? Like I want my product to work
too, right? Like I want to get these
benefits. I, you know, this has been my
life's work. This is what I've been working
(41:12):
towards, so you know I want it just as badly as you do and I'm
going to be the one to make sureit happens.
So what are the next steps for research and further clinical
trials for the company? Yeah.
So now that we have done this clinical study, then the next is
an even bigger clinical study, right.
That's kind of just how how the science world works is that you
(41:33):
prove that it works in a small population, you prove that it
works in a medium sized population, you prove that it
works in a larger population. And what we'll probably do for
the larger population study is, you know, go something in the
range of like a 100 person, 120 person study and look at how
mimeo effects a metabolic condition, probably, probably
(41:53):
metabolic syndrome specifically where you have this cluster of
symptoms where you have high glucose levels, low cholesterol
levels, high triglyceride levels, you know, increase
adiposity, waist circumference, you know, things like that.
So folks that could really use ametabolic boost and this
metabolic benefit that we've shown that mimeo can provide and
(42:16):
then apply that to them and see how that all works out probably
at a, you know, 8 to 12 week study, study length.
But then beyond that, with the current Mimeo formulation, we
also have our back end biomimetic research platform.
And what we're going to do thereis essentially look at all these
(42:38):
other interesting regenerative states of the body, right?
So fasting was our first one, but Next up will probably be
exercise. And looking at how does
endurance exercise, how does youknow the more like fast twitch,
sprinting exercise affect the body?
And are there unique molecules produced there that we can use
(43:01):
to help recreate these beneficial effects of exercise?
And that's really what Mimeo is designed to be for the long term
is that biomimetic supplement company.
So just like we ran this with fasting, we'll run it with
exercise, we'll run it with meditation, we'll run it with
sleep, we'll run it with cold exposure, and really try to find
these unique clinically derived health and longevity molecules
(43:24):
and formulations so that we can truly, you know, kind of unlock
the power of our biology and putit at our fingertips.
And you're not going to do away with my exercise.
How are? You no yeah, we'll see that
that's that's the thing right isthat it's not a full recreation
and it never will be but we can mimic some of the benefits just
like with fasting. We're never going to be able to,
(43:46):
you know, erase calories right but we can still help tweak that
source code in the cells to helpthem promote these beneficial
pathways and effects even when we're eating and same thing for
exercise. We're never going to be able to
recreate the, you know, the energy restriction effects that
happened during exercise. We're never going to be able to
recreate the, you know, micro tearing of the muscles that are
(44:10):
that happen because of the actual physical stress.
But we can identify these, you know, interesting beneficial
cellular health molecules or things that can enhance strength
and, you know, improve recovery,kind of like we already found
with the fasting. Limit.
I've already heard that a glass of wine is like an hour at the
gym, so somebody's got to beat there.
(44:31):
It's true, yeah. I mean, you know, a general rule
of is that for every, you know, mile you walk or run, that's
around 100 calories. So if you're saying like, you
know, a typical glass of wine, it's like 150 to 200 calories,
something like that. So that's, you know, 2 miles on
the treadmill. Yeah, so you're actually putting
(44:52):
the calories in rather than burning.
And that's why I always loved when I heard that article.
But it is interesting that, you know, there's that possibility
for maybe parts of the population where traditional
exercise isn't at their disposal.
You know, it's people, you know,paraplegics, quadriplegics that
could get some benefits that canhelp with their health and their
(45:13):
longevity that they could get from exercise.
But since they're unable to exercise, they're going to get
some limited benefit from being able to do a more biomimetic
pathway. That's kind of cool.
I'm excited for that. Exactly.
And I think that going back to the question that you had
earlier, who can really benefit especially from these biomimetic
technologies that we're pushing forward are a lot of elderly
(45:36):
folks, right. So people who fasting would be
very beneficial for them, but they're at the stage where they
have to worry about, you know, muscle wasting Kapenia, they
have to worry about frailty, they have to worry about not
losing too much weight or too much bone mass or muscle mass or
whatever it is. So a fasting memetic is perfect
because it's activating, you know, that longevity bio
(45:57):
program, but without actually having to risk these negative
effects that you can get from the energy restriction elements
of fasting. And then like you said, same
with exercise, right? There are plenty of people who
could really benefit from actual, you know, exercise and
strength training and resistancetraining and all that, but are
physically unable to do it. Or they've gotten to the point
(46:19):
where, you know, they have a muscle wasting problem or, or,
or a bone wasting problem or some kind of frailty, right.
And so if we can provide even, you know, 40% of the benefit of
traditional exercise and that would be really impactful or.
Even like 10% can be impact. I mean, any percentage above 0
is going to be somewhat impactedfor an individual who can
(46:41):
exercise. That's pretty cool.
So the study was on healthy overweight in adults.
How do these results transfer orgeneralize to, say, younger or
more healthy weight population? Yeah, it's a great question.
So the best answer that I have for that is going back to our
second clinical study with the mimeo formulation that was
(47:03):
performed in young healthy people.
And that's where we saw that we could mitigate some of those
negative effects of the postprandial state where we
could recreate these benefits offasting even during a meal.
So we know that even within young healthy people, we can
provide immediate metabolic benefit there.
I will say that with any intervention, right, it's this
(47:26):
isn't unique to Mimeo. The unhealthier you are, the
easier it is to create health benefits, right?
And the healthier you are, the harder it is to create health
benefits. So if, you know, we were to look
at this same study in Olympic trained athletes with eight
weeks of supplementation with Mimio, we might not have been
(47:46):
able to see the same level of beneficial effect, right?
I'm sure that we would have seensomething, but probably not the
same kind of deltas that we're working with here.
And then on the flip side of that, if we had been working
with a, you know, metabolic disease population like type 2
diabetes or like NAFLD, right, we probably could have seen even
(48:07):
more impact there. So what I think is most
impactful about the Mimio formulation is that it's helping
you stay within that healthy range, right?
It's really helping you to maintain a healthy metabolism.
And you know, even and that's overtime, right, to really like
combat these forces of of aging to make sure that you're staying
(48:31):
within the health. Yeah.
So it's back to the aging. Well, I mean, it's not something
that an healthy individual starting young is going to see
immediate effects, but over the 10:20, 30-40 years, you suddenly
start to see how you are separating from your, your peers
that are not doing the same things that you're doing to age
(48:52):
well. Right, exactly.
That's something I think that people have lost perspective of
a little bit in the longevity game in general is that
longevity is not about rejuvenation and regeneration or
even like increasing cell turnover, right?
That's something that you see, especially in the skin and
(49:12):
beauty industry is a lot is thatyou're like, oh, we're going to
like enhance cellular turnover, like cellular renewal.
That's actually from a scientific perspective, a very
pro aging effect, right? Cells only have a certain number
of times that they can divide before they become, you know,
dysfunctional or too damaged to survive.
(49:35):
And that's called the Hayflick limit.
So the faster your cells replicate and divide, the faster
they're going to reach the Hayflick limit, which means the
faster they're going to fall into dysfunction is repair and
then eventual death. So anti aging and longevity is
actually about maintenance of that cell for as long as
possible without having to have it divide.
(49:58):
And that's really what we're going for here is that if you
can stretch out the cellular lifespan, then that's going to
eventually lead to a stretching out of an organismal lifespan as
well. So like that whole body effect
is really going to be coming from the cell itself.
I think we've kind of jumped toomuch on the longevity bandwagon
(50:20):
and are kind of missing the point of what we're trying to do
in living longer, that it reallyneeds to be that health span
approach, not just longevity, because yeah, we're getting
people to live longer, but we'redoing it at really the expense
of their health. They're just staying unhealthy
longer. Right, exactly.
And that's what's known as the health span lifespan, right.
(50:41):
And that's kind of the scariest part about aging.
That's the that's always the argument that we get from people
who aren't in the longevity space.
We're like, why would I want to live an extra 10 years after I'm
85, right? Like I'd rather just die.
And, and that because of that fear of like, when do you, how
(51:01):
long do you live in dysfunction and disease and like, you know,
potential pain right after you're like no longer healthy
and youthful and vibrant anymore.
And I think that to your point, Jeff, the real thing that we're
trying to do here in longevity is not to necessarily extend
lifespan, just, you know, for the purpose of extending
(51:23):
lifespan, right? What we want to do is, and what
my goal is in the healthy aging and longevity space is to just
live my life as healthy as possible for as long as
possible. Or like I don't want to fall
into disrepair and disease and you know, all that stuff.
I want to essentially be runninga marathon when I'm 95 and as
(51:46):
soon as I cross the finish line,just like suddenly drop dead.
That's like the best thing that I can think of as an example of
the goal that we're all trying to achieve in the healthy aging
space. Yeah, that's kind of where I am.
And we talk a lot about the the four ages.
And you have the first age is kind of that year of develop,
those years of development and dependency, you know, up through
(52:06):
usually high score and a college.
And then you have second age is where you're coming, that age of
independence, you're building upwealth, you're starting a
family. Third age is that age where
you're now able to capitalize onthe finances that you build up
over the period of time you're in retirement, you can travel,
you can do all these fun things that you couldn't do when you're
having kids. And in fourth age is that age of
(52:27):
decline and decrepitude. And we really want to bring that
fourth age to being as close to nothing as possible.
And like you said, you cross thefinish line and fall over dead.
That is like 0 fourth age. And that's the perfect way to
go. Maybe.
I don't know that I'd want to necessarily die on the finish
line. I'd rather kind of maybe go
home, sit down in my recliner, pop a beer or something, and
(52:49):
then just gently go to sleep. Yeah, we like that too.
You know, as long as it's quick and we don't see it coming,
that's ideal. So.
So Speaking of, and I asked you this question before, are you
still aging well? What are you doing to keep aging
well? I know you're like you're, you
look like you're 20, but I know you're older than that.
That's true. I am.
(53:10):
I am 34. So we'll we'll take that.
I like, I like this my, my general thing for aging well is
I'm still doing one meal a day. That's my schedule.
So even with mimeo, right, I still like to intermittent fast
and I find that it supports me there.
So I'll take mimeo and green teain the morning.
That basically helps me get through my entire day.
(53:32):
I'm very productive, very focused and not thinking about
food. And then at the end of the day,
I kind of get to shut all that off and then go immediately
into, OK, great, now I've got, you know, my entire day's worth
of calories. At the end of it, I can kind of,
you know, do whatever I want, eat whatever I want, kind of
have a, you know, a food reward,as I like to call it.
(53:52):
So that's kind of how I like to how I like to incorporate
intermittent fasting into my life.
And then, you know, exercise, strength training, that's the
big thing for me. I go to the gym, you know, five
times a week and and I focus pretty solely on just
weightlifting and strength training just because we know
(54:13):
that muscle mass going into old age is one of the best
indicators for health, span and longevity.
And then beyond that, it's less wear and tear on your joints
over time. So you're like, you know,
producing less damage, especially if you're doing like
more machine work or controlled things, cable cable exercises,
(54:34):
things like that. So that's, that's kind of like
my, my big thing, right? Like I'm very into the
supplement side of things with mimeo and then traditional diet
and exercise. And you know the the equation is
not that complicated. That's why it's easy in my
field. You know, exercise sciences, you
(54:54):
know it. It can be really narrowed down
to about 6 principles and you'regood to go.
Yeah, exactly. And that's what I found in the
nutrition space too, right? Getting my PhD in nutrition.
And I was like, wow, I can't believe that I spent, you know,
these past seven years basicallyto learn what I already knew in
first grade, right? Where it's like, oh, yeah, eat,
eat your fruits, eat your vegetables, colorful things.
(55:16):
Don't eat too much. You know, stay away from red
meats and processed foods. Good.
As we it's as good as we have and it's probably as good as
we'll have for a very long time.So, Doctor Rhodes, how can our
listeners connect with you and learn a little bit more about
Mimio? Yep, if they want mimeo, they
can come to our website. That's MIMIO health.com if they
(55:40):
want to learn more about me. My bio and the rest of the teams
bio are on the website as well. Or started.
The Aging Well Podcast. I guess that.
Doctor Christopher Rocks cofounder and CEO Health in
episode 196 Doctor Rhodes shared.
Insights into how fast I was early fasting mimicking diamond
was profoundly into in cellular processes boost metabolic.
(56:01):
Health and potentially extend lifespan.
He returns in this episode to update us on the research into
fasting biomimetics. And how these may improve?
Hunger, Appetite control, Glucose levels, Cholesterol.
Levels and more never and. You're curious about optimizing
the health or looking for innovative ways to age?
Well, this episode offers valuable perspectives from a
(56:23):
leader in the field. So thank you for joining us.
Is there anything that we missedthat you kind of need to
finalize to tell our listeners and viewers?
No, I think that is everything. Got it really well covered.
All right, well, we'll have you back on and I'm trying to think
how long ago was you were on thelast time, but.
Whenever the next study is. As soon as more information
(56:44):
comes out, just let me know and we'll get you back on here.
So again, I've really enjoyed this and, you know, just keep
doing what you're doing and keepaging well.
Perfect. Thanks, Jeff.
Thanks for having me. Thank you for listening.
I hope you benefited from today's podcast and until next
time, keep aging well.
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