June 26, 2025 • 48 mins
In this episode of The Aging Well Podcast, Dr. Jeff Armstrong is joined by Stephanie Goodman, founder of Golden Agreements, to discuss the importance of proactive aging, the role of social connections, and the lessons learned from past business ventures. They emphasize the need for support networks in aging, the significance of relationships, and the importance of living life with purpose. The discussion also touches on the technical aspects of podcasting and how to effectively communicate key messages. They discuss the importance of planning for aging and the dynamics of family support. They explore the concept of 'Golden Agreements' as a proactive approach to ensure that families can navigate the challenges of aging together. The discussion highlights the need for open communication, shared responsibilities, and the significance of planning ahead to avoid crises. Stephanie shares her insights on how to foster independence while ensuring that aging loved ones receive the support they need, emphasizing that it's never too early to start these conversations. This episode explores the complexities of aging, family communication, and the importance of planning for end-of-life decisions. They discuss the significance of having difficult conversations early, the role of multigenerational living, and the concept of 'Golden Agreements' to facilitate family discussions. The dialogue emphasizes the need for compassion, understanding, and proactive planning to ensure a peaceful aging process for loved ones.Learn more about Stephanie Goodman and Golden Agreements at https://www.goldenagreements.com/about
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:03):
Welcome to the Aging Well Podcast, where we explore the
science, stories and strategies behind living a longer,
healthier, and more purposeful life.
Joining me is Stephanie Goodman,Founder of Golden Agreements, a
service devoted to helping families navigate the
complexities of aging with grace, clarity, and compassion.
With over 2 decades of experience in family support and
(00:24):
elder care, Stephanie is passionate about creating space
for honest conversations. There's difficult but necessary
talks that allow families to honor their loved ones
independence, dignity, and deeply held wishes.
If you've ever felt overwhelmed by the uncertainty around your
parents care, unsure how to begin planning, or afraid of the
hard conversations that aging demands, this episode will offer
(00:47):
not only empathy but also practical tools and hope for the
journey ahead. Stephanie, welcome to the Aging
Well podcast. I wanted you to begin by just
telling us a little bit about yourself and really what
inspired you to create Golden Agreements and what need were
you seeing in families that led you to this creation?
Thank you. It's nice to meet you and thank
(01:08):
you for inviting me on. I started this company just this
year, but I've actually been in this situation for more than 20
where I've been helping families, helping my own family,
the process of planning for aging.
We spend a lot of time thinking about estate planning for after
we're gone. We spend a lot of time thinking
about how to extend our lives and how to live quality lives
(01:31):
with supplement and with exercise and things like that,
but we spend a lot less time thinking about the people who
are going to be on the journey with us all the way to the end.
My father was diagnosed with ALSin the early 2000.
He passed in 2004. And that started my journey.
So I've really been at this for over 25 years.
(01:53):
And in the process, I also started a women's group called
Project Refind. And so I meet with many women my
age range. We're all dealing with the same
things. We are raising our families and
we are watching our parents age.And the struggles and the
difficulties are universal. So we really hone in on how to
(02:15):
age, how to go through the journey, not just for our
parents, but for ourselves. And it's a really a rethink of
how we look at aging rather thanthe crisis management that tends
to be the cornerstone of how we look at aging today.
So how do you define aging well?For me, aging well is the
ability to be independent, the ability to chase your dreams and
(02:36):
be surrounded with the people who love you so that you're not
doing it alone. That's aging well.
That's pretty much how we defineit here, I think.
So what are some of the most common struggles you see with
families as they're facing trying to navigate aging
together? Let's do a quick history lesson.
Really, today everybody wants todo what's called age in place.
(02:57):
That means live in their homes alone, independently, with their
dignity, doing exactly what theywant to do all the way until the
time that they pass. But that's a really relatively
new phenomenon because if you goback to the early 1900s, we were
still living together in multi generational families.
We were still living in the sameneighborhoods.
We were watching out for our aging elders and we knew what
(03:17):
their needs were and we were taking care of them.
And there weren't even as many people and options to be a part
of it. So it was really relied on the
family. And then throughout the 1900s,
with realization and urbanization and people moving
around the country, we left our family units.
And in response to that, we saw institutional support, we saw
aging homes, we nursing homes, we saw communities, retirement
(03:41):
communities pop up where some ofthose support systems were, were
built into the new systems. And then with Social Security,
Medicare, Medicaid, people couldafford more of that.
So those really proliferated. And really if you look at the
the Census Bureau, it wasn't until about the mid 1980s that
we invented this idea that we'regoing to live in place, we're
going to age in place and we're going to do it ourselves all the
(04:03):
way to the end. And so if you look at it about a
4045 year old phenomenon, you can see why we are in a
situation where people are in crisis.
And the fallout to your questionabout what's the greatest
challenge is I see families being divided.
I see nightmare scenarios where people are not experiencing the
outcomes that they hope or with their loved one because they
(04:24):
hadn't planned to go through this journey in a way that they
were genuinely supported and thefamily understood everybody was
rowing in the same direction basically.
That's a really new concept to aging in place, and very few
people do that. So how do you define a golden
agreement and why is this such apowerful tool for aging well?
(04:46):
A golden agreement is essentially a family contract,
and it's a very specific family contract where we go through and
look at critical elements need to be defined, hopefully well
ahead of the crisis to make surethat we actually have a plan.
I liken it to if you're going tohave a child, you have some
version of a birth plan. You go to a Lamar class, you go
(05:06):
to a breastfeeding class, perhaps you make a nursery, you
arrange your childcare, you get the accoutrements for your
house, the stroller, the all theparts and pieces that you think
will help you go through that life transition planned for.
Does it always go according to plan?
Absolutely not. But it doesn't make the plan any
(05:27):
less valuable or necessary to gointo that life transition.
And so for me, golden agreementsare those same planning tools.
Typically you've got the two parents who are on the same page
about who's going to do which responsibilities, How are we
going to handle this baby? How are we going to manage our
life through this transition? And aging really has to be
(05:47):
thought of the same way rather than as a solo independent
journey, because that really does not serve you well if you
plan to be with the people you love in a really harmonious way
through life. We hear a lot about the sandwich
generation where we have, you know, people that are kind of
involved in their careers and they're taking care of maybe
their own kids. But then they also now have to
(06:09):
because like myself, I'm an older parent.
I had my kids when I was in my early 40s.
So now it's 62, you know, they're just now entering
college, which, and I think backit's like when my dad was 62, I
think that's about when I was having like that's when I
started having my kids. And you know, it's we hear about
the sandwich generation. Are you seeing that occurring
(06:32):
more that kids are being willing, or maybe it's more
forced into taking care of theirparents?
Are they doing it willingly or is this, you know, something
that is causing some of the friction in these families?
That's really a great question. There's a little bit of a
chicken in the egg on this one. First of all, we did not our
(06:53):
generation, we did not invent aid.
What's been going on forever, all that's really changed is our
expectation of how we can do things.
And the sense of independence iswhat we see in this aging in
place. So what's forgotten in the aging
in place mentality is there's really four critical key
elements that need to be in place for that to be successful
(07:15):
so that it isn't a burden on ourchildren or it isn't a burden on
us if we're caring for our parents.
The 1st is home readiness. If the home, if your if your
parents, if you are living in a two-story home and your bedroom
is upstairs, the day is going tocome.
We're going up those stairs is probably going to be a
challenge. Likelihood is anyway there will
be a few people who can manage that.
(07:36):
But is the house appropriate? Have safety measures been taken
to create a safe home for that person to be able to live there?
Have you installed grab rails inthe bathroom?
Have you done the lighting? Even as we age at our age, we
should be doing little things along the way that keep us
safer, more convenience. Maybe your eyes aren't as good
as they once were. Maybe you need to improve the
(07:58):
lighting. There are steps all along the
way that we can be taking. So home readiness, that's can be
a barrier to aging in place. Financial constraints.
There's a lot of cost associatedwith staying alone.
And when I say alone, I don't mean that there isn't aren't
people living in your house. I mean, aging in place is a
commitment to living independently through the rest
(08:18):
of your life. That can be very expensive.
Health issues and the need for care can exceed what can happen
in a house. And then you need to really
consider other living situationsor you need to consider bringing
help into the house that also has all kinds of barriers to
entry in certain situations. And then lastly, there's a lack
of social support. There's an isolation that
(08:39):
happens when you choose to age in place.
So it's really up to your familyto address those four issues
because as you age, your capacity to genuinely understand
what your needs are, be proactive to make sure those
needs are being met, it's diminished.
We know that's part of aging. It's OK.
It doesn't mean you've lost yourmind.
It doesn't mean you have dementia.
It's just we just know that's part of aging.
(09:00):
Eventually you're gonna need support.
So aging in place, Well, 85% of all adults currently told AARP
that's what they plan to do. That really requires a plan.
And that so the sandwich generation is really saying this
is a bigger burden than I thought.
So with appropriate planning, which is what Golden Agreements
does, we spread out all of thoseresponsibilities amongst the
(09:22):
family and loved ones. We really identify who's going
to do what. And then what does it mean if
you have the financial power of attorney for somebody?
What does that mean while they're alive, Not just at the
very end of their life, but how do you support them throughout
their aging journey? So it's not dramatic.
So it's not difficult when the time comes.
There's so many planning steps you can do to be able to support
(09:44):
your loved one, both in health and finances and safety and
social. So we really look at all of
those aspects and we spread out,we divide the responsibilities
and we make sure that the personwe're planning for, the golden
client, knows who to turn to when they need support because
that's also with dignity, often a problem.
They don't want to say I need help.
(10:05):
They said, Nope, I got this, I got this.
I don't need any help. But the truth is, we all need
the help, and if we want to be with the people we love at the
end of our life, we have to include them in our journey.
So why do so many families avoidthese conversations until
there's a crisis? I think I've heard a lot of
really heartfelt explanations tothat question, but most of them
really don't stand up to the test of reality.
(10:28):
One of them is, I love this one.I'm afraid if I talk about
dying, I will die. OK, I'm pretty sure we're all
going to meet that death anyway.We're all going to get there
anyway. I don't think talking about it
expedites it. One of the one of the great
paradoxes is that actually the better we plan for aging, the
better we do it aging. And that's you've you, you're
preaching that. You're talking about that all
(10:49):
the time on this podcast. Plan for it.
Plan for the exercise, plan for the healthy eating, plan for the
sleeping, plan for the fall prevention.
All of these planning exercises will improve the quality of your
life. But what we don't talk about is
how to include the people we love because we it is a sense of
giving up our independence and nobody wants to give up their
(11:10):
independence. I understand that.
And I let me just follow up withone other thought on that.
The common saying is that you end up parenting the parent
child role becomes reversed. Right now you're parenting your
parent. I cannot say more emphatically
turn that one on its head. You are not parenting your you
are evolving your relationship to give them the kind of support
(11:31):
and love that they gave you. But that is not the same thing
is parenting your parent. If it was, then much like when
you have a 5 year old having a tantrum, you'll just tell them
what to do and you'll exert thatkind of control.
But out of respect and love for your parents, there is a way to
do this without parenting your parent.
And I'm going to, I'll tell everybody goldenagreements.com,
we have articles, they're all free.
(11:52):
I think we have about 6-8 articles just on hard
conversations and another 6 rated articles on talking about
the pros and cons of aging in place.
These are just hard things to talk about but really helpful
for helping our parents. So what are some key elements or
must haves in a healthy, proactive family dialogue about
(12:14):
aging and future care? Division of Labor, division of
responsibility. It's not really labor, it's
division of responsibilities amongst all the different
places. Sometimes there isn't somebody
for every responsibility, but then identifying who you're
going to bring in to do it. So typically the areas of
responsibility fall into financial and that's not just
(12:35):
paying the bills, that's making sure that you've really worked
with the right professionals to make sure you've planned for
your financial future and that your family knows where the
limitations of that are. That's that is often a big deal
that parents have less money than their children thought that
they did for their aging years. So I've actually assembled an
advisory team. I have a doctor, a financial
(12:55):
person and a state attorney, psychiatrist, a psychologist, a
critical care doctor. I have a lot of people who've
ask the questions if you could meet with the entire family
instead of just the the senior, what would you ask them?
What would you want them to know?
And they've given me a list of questions.
And so how to best support and what do people need to know is
(13:17):
that there's deeper levels and layers to what you need to do to
early on support this question, but.
No, you did perfectly. That was that was a great
answer. And you know, you talk about the
division of responsibility. I almost want to say, you know,
lean into like the vision of opportunity, you know, because
if we consider it in an opportunity and we're repaying
(13:39):
our parents, our parents, no matter how crappy of parents
they were, we are still who we are because they brought us into
this world and, you know, gave us the blessing of existence.
And, you know, they did their best to raise us.
And where they fell short were the areas that we got to grow
and become better people, hopefully.
And so, you know, we owe it to them.
(14:01):
I don't want to say owe it, but,you know, we, it's an
opportunity for us to kind of pay back the love and, you know,
the, you know, care that we weregiven.
I'm going to take it one step. Further, there are some people
who for whom the past is too sensitive, it's too difficult to
think about how to really show their parents that kind of
(14:21):
involvement and respect through their aging years.
I get it. That happens.
What about us? We're all going to age also, we
we owe it to our kids to build abetter future for them so that
they aren't stuck with our crises, so that they're not
thinking about Oh no, what am I going to do?
How am I going to possibly manage this for my parent with
we start early. If we have this plan for our
(14:44):
kids. I already do Many of my friends
now do we give them a gift? It is a gift of gift of peace.
They are not going to be surprised wondering how are mom?
How are we going to help mom anddad later another the problem is
that kids tend to overreact. We tend to jump in and trying to
fix everything for our parents and they don't want to be have
it fixed and they fight back andthey bark back and they say I
(15:06):
don't want this. That's not a relationship where
it's sustainable. If you have a relationship like
that through your parents aging journal journey by the time they
pass, you're what a relief and we see that.
I know you know people like that.
I know people like that where that was the dynamic.
It doesn't have to be that way, but it requires preparation.
And so that's, it's my message for everyone.
(15:30):
It doesn't take a lot of preparation.
It just takes having the hard conversations open up these
conversations. Do you need golden agreements to
have them? Absolutely not.
Do we provide a service to go through the whole gamut and give
you a, a written and a video andeverything else to sort of
create a game plan? Absolutely.
But there's plenty of families where you can, you can have
these conversations without golden agreements, but you can
(15:51):
still think about it as a goldenagreement where it's a family
commitment where everybody sees the future in the same way and
knows their responsibilities, knows what's expected of them,
plans their life to include those responsibilities instead
of being asked to do things haphazardly when maybe it's not
convenient. That's what golden agreements
are really all about. And do you pull more than just
(16:14):
the parent child relationship inthere and you pull like the
grandchildren in there as well or as many generations that can
be involved as possible? Is that recommended?
It depends on the family. Not all families are set up for
that. I do.
I did one family. It was really nice.
So this woman, her husband had already passed and she has two
(16:35):
daughters and both of them are sole, sole proprietor business
owners. So her concern was the kids are
taking her to doctor's appointments or helping her with
her needs, that they would be losing income.
And that was a really big concern about being a burden on
her children. So two things came out of that.
Number one, we came up with a formula for compensation.
(16:56):
She wanted to make sure that if her kids were going to take time
away from work to help her, thatthey, that she essentially was
paying them both equally for their time so that they didn't
feel the burden of being pulled away from their.
And then the second part is whenwe've got into some of the
granular responsibilities. She has four grandchildren.
So we actually did pull in, in the social planning particular
(17:19):
in particular because those grandchildren are still pretty
young. They're in high school, but we
pulled in some of the planning for social connection, social
connectivity. Even if when they go off to
college, the kids have agreed that there's certain days it'll
be there check in FaceTime days.And they love their grandmother.
They're thrilled to do it. They are happy to be part of the
program. They are a bit on the young
(17:39):
side, but it really depends on the family.
So how do you help families honor both the wishes of the
aging loved one and the needs ofthe caregivers?
Really often as we age, certain things we want we can't have,
not everybody, but things come up that are just not going to be
practical and it's too much for the caregiver to be able to
handle. That's why Golden Agreement's
(18:01):
being done on the earlier side, particularly in our generation.
Doing it early and making sure that the wishes are actually
backed up by the values. Understanding what the values
are that drive those wishes willhelp caregivers direct their
loved ones in a direction that both honors their values and
promotes their safety, well-being and health.
(18:22):
Because sometimes they are at odds and caregiver burnout
often, not always, there's multiple kinds reasons for
caregiver burnout, but often caregiver burnout is the
relentless push to maintain health and safety against the
pushback of the senior. I don't don't touch me or, you
know, things that make it hard to be a care create an
(18:43):
accelerated burnout. So the first step to me is
understanding those values, understanding what makes it most
important. I'm going to share one other
story that probably is helpful for a lot of people.
I didn't. I worked with another family and
I we talked about when will you give up driving?
What under what circumstances would you give up?
Always a conversation much easier facilitated by an
outsider than inside of a familyand the, the respondent said.
(19:07):
When my hands and feet fall off till then, I won't give up
driving. And in the course of our
conversation, we got down to thecore value that he really didn't
want to be in his social. He has a wonderful social
routine every day and he did notwant to be in a situation where
he was reliant on his children to come pick him up.
(19:27):
That was embarrassing. There were other people in the
in the group that were already experiencing that.
To him, that was the ultimate sign of lack of dignity and
independence. And that drove his I will
always, always drive mentality. So when we got to the core value
of what was behind it, we were able to come up with the system.
This person happens to live on the East Coast where the weather
(19:48):
isn't as nice as it is here in California.
And so the family agreed to an Uber app or a Lyft app on his
phone, teach him how to use it. He agreed to use it only on
really weather difficult days where it's really raining hard.
He said, yes, it's a little hardto drive in the rain.
Yes, it's a little hard to drivein the snow.
So he agreed. With the family to become
(20:10):
familiar with using that app forindependence and that that
started the transition because it he was at an age and at a
certain other issues where not driving was going to become more
important. There are ways to get to the
values of what people want and avoid the conflicts that create
the burnout. So what point in our lives
(20:30):
should we consider formulating agolden agreement?
Like for ourselves or for? It's never too.
I'm going to tell you I have kids in their 20s.
They haven't done the full Golden agreements protocol, but
we. Plan.
But we have done is we've lookedat the necessary documents and
the legal documents that would make a sudden tragic event more
(20:53):
manageable. So those documents exist whether
they're advanced care directives, whether they are
access to to finances to be ableto help make decisions, a third
party authorization agreements. I'm on all the lists as well as
a sibling because I have 4 kids,but me and one of their siblings
(21:14):
are on all of their healthcare release information releases.
These are small, small steps youcan take at any age to make this
process easier for your family. Because if you have to show
cause or go to court or get legal documents to then step in
and help your loved ones, you'rejust delaying the process and
creating a lot of crisis for theperson who's trying to help you.
(21:37):
All these steps can be done at any point in time.
There's really If anything, there's a too late, not a too
early. And what would be too late?
The too late is when the the golden client is unable to
really articulate what their needs and wants are with any
substance for the family to be able to work with.
That's when it's a little bit too late.
(21:58):
So I do work with those familiesas well to talk about the
divisions of responsibilities, to talk about all the things
that can be done ahead of time to help create ease through the
process. I've had conversations.
I have a psychiatrist on my my board who will help with
capacity issues when that's necessary.
Fortunately, we try to work around things like that.
(22:19):
We don't really like to go the to that end, we believe
everybody has a say in that. And the more we understand the
values of those, we also do videotape.
We do a lot of videotape in the end of our part.
We do the family conversation onvideotape and we ask very, I ask
very specific questions so that the family can go back and see
what those values were when their loved one had full
(22:40):
thoughtfulness and full capacity.
Another client told her her kids, that if she was diagnosed
with certain kinds of short diagnosis, geoblastoma, ALS,
pancreatic cancer, certain very specific things that she could
point to that she knew had a short ending and rather painful
(23:02):
ending that for her in her valuesystem.
She really wanted her kids to know.
She wants them to expedite getting to that end process.
She'll put it in her advanced care directives.
But what a what a peaceful gift to give her kids on video, to
say, I give you permission when these hard conversations come up
with my doctors, please don't don't hesitate.
This is what I really, really want.
(23:23):
And what a gift. What a gift for those kids to
have that kind of clarity. I've.
Heard it from many different people where, you know, a dying
parent will often hang on simplybecause they, they don't feel
like their kids feel like they have permission to let them go,
you know, and that they feel sometimes like I figure when I
(23:43):
was hearing the story that, you know, the family was in the room
constantly with the parent and parent just kept hanging on,
hanging on. And as soon as they they left
the room, it was like they died because they knew in their heart
of hearts that now, you know, they can just do it without
having to feel like they're dragging their kids along or
(24:05):
hurting their kids at all or making them feel guilty.
And so it is important to reallyhave those conversations early.
And I think probably throughout the lifespan, I mean, from the
time our kids are old enough to comprehend, we need to be having
those conversations because, youknow, things can happen even if
we're in our, you know, 30s withkids, our 40s, you know, we
don't have to wait until our 8090, a hundred years old to
(24:27):
start having a conversation about what's going to happen
when I, you know, I'm in this situation.
If you if you go back in time oryou look at some other cultures,
multi generational living gave young children exposure to the
stages of life, all stages of life.
And as they grew up, they were watching and learning not just
(24:47):
how to help supportive, but how to do it right for their
children. Later in a post
industrialization world, in a world of globalization and
spreading out, some of those lessons have been lost and we
need to figure out how to put them back into the family.
And fortunately, technology makes it easier than ever.
We can FaceTime the people we love.
We can videotape the people we love.
(25:09):
We can have these lasting memories.
It is an art. It is a piece of learning and
living that we don't get anymore.
It's just a byproduct of where we are.
I will share because I've had this come up many times.
People say, well, what are the Asian cultures I hear?
And you know, multi generational, multi generational
living is more prevalent in other societies.
(25:29):
I did a study on it. I wanted to understand what are
the best practices, right? I thought I was going to carry
forward the best practices. And I will only say this it does
still exist. It does still exist in parts of
the world more than others, but there is no one country that
does it so right that we should all be looking at it.
In China for instance, the one child policy has had a
(25:51):
tremendous effect on multi generational living.
There's only one person out there that's their actual child
to help them and many of them have moved away from their
villages and towns and so it's become a community and
government LED support. But there's no perfect solution
out there just isn't. I do know though, we have lost
some of the lessons in family unity through the aging I.
(26:13):
Personally kind of miss the dayswhen multi generations all lived
relatively close to one another.I mean, my grandparents were,
they weren't right in Pittsburghwhere I grew up, but they were
like an hour away and we got to see them pretty frequently.
I had a lot of friends who, you know, growing up in a small
community with front porches. Their grandparents lived with
them. You knew their grandparents and
(26:34):
it was just, there was more thanjust the family involved in the,
the aging adult. There was the community as well.
And I think we've lost so much of that that we've kind of
distanced ourselves and and we've LED ageism kind of creep
into our lives a little bit morewhere we're more fearful of
death and in aging is so negative rather than a positive.
(26:55):
And we don't lean into the opportunities we have to
experience what our aging adultsare doing.
That makes sense. So, well, it is nostalgia to
think about the days when grandparents were our great
grandparents even were doing thecaretaking for the children, you
know, the grandchildren, the great grandchildren, Oh, drop
(27:16):
them off at my house and buy later and get them it it still
happens And and definitely, you know, but for many of us, myself
included, that's just nostalgic waxing on the, the, the past or,
or, or relying on movies to tellus how it was done right.
It's not true across the board, but it is a beautiful.
(27:37):
It's a beautiful sign of life when your whole family is part
of your aging journey. Right.
So, can you share an example of a family promise and how it
helped a family navigate a toughdecision?
Yeah, brain just got flooded actually with a lot of a lot of
examples because I fortunately Ido hear from people about
moments that are critical. The medical seems to be the
(28:00):
obvious one to go to, but I'm going to go to something a
little more basic. Here's a good one.
So one family, the parents were deciding between building a
bathroom downstairs and a room to live in, to make their house
accessible for aging in place ormoving into a spare room in
their daughter's home. And this was a decision they
(28:20):
were absolutely agonizing, the golden agreement of the things
that they had decided that they would all agree to, right?
Because a golden agreement is only good if everybody agrees to
it. The in looking at what their
children were prepared to do forthem, they went through the list
of the golden agreements. And, and instead of making the
(28:40):
question about do we build a bathroom or do we move in with
our daughter, they reframed the entire question around which
solution best honors the agreements we've made as a
thing. What is the easiest way to live
up to what we said we want to dorather than go with maybe our
instinct about where our independence might be?
Could they end up? And they did end up moving into
(29:03):
their daughter's house and they did so because they're they have
an agreement too. It's not just our agreement what
we'll do for our loved ones, butit's their agreement with what
they'll do to help us support them.
It's a two way street. So in this case, that golden
agreement, that series of goldenagreement is actually what they
were relying on as they had a hard conversation to make that
difficult decision. So what advice would you give to
(29:26):
adult children who feel overwhelmed and don't know
really where to start these conversations?
I would say go to my website, myarticles are written from
they're all free. It's a it's a perspective of we
know this is a hard conversation.
This is not fluff. This is what are the important
point. Have a conversation around.
I, I recommend to every family that you start from a place of
(29:47):
compassion and care. Aging is not something that we
didn't expect. It was always coming.
And when we treated as such, instead of a new burden that's
been put on our life, we tend tocome from a place of empathy,
place of consideration. I also say don't try to do it
alone. Bring in family members, bring
in loved ones, bring in a clergy, bring in a social
(30:09):
worker, bring in a family psychologist, whatever you need.
You don't have to do this alone.And sometimes it's really
important to look beyond the moment and say, if I have
another 20 years of helping my parent through this aging
process, is this the moment thatI want to define what that
relationships going to be like? Or can I make it easier?
Can I just not work so often? I think as children of aging
(30:32):
people, we think to ourselves, how does this impact me?
I'm raising my kids, I'm doing my family, I've got my marriage,
I've got my job. How is this impacting me?
And guess what? Asked at the right time, most of
our parents would say, I don't want to be a burden on your
life. So when you start closing that
gap and say, how do we do this without being a bird?
How do we make this something, as you pointed out, a joyful
refrain of the evolution of our relationships?
(30:54):
That would be my advice. And how do you address emotional
resistance or family members whojust don't want to talk about
aging or death? So sometimes you just can't have
those conversations. Sometimes you have to let it go.
It's not going to happen. But then you look at the people
who are going to be left behind and you say, can we have the
conversation sort of in levity? I don't know if your kids ever
(31:14):
played this game Noses where you're at the dinner table and
you say who's going to do the dishes and they go noses and the
last one to put their finger on the nose is the one who's it and
ends up doing the dishes. Often we look at helping our
parents the same way. Noses you do it.
That's on you. You're you live closest or you
they liked you best or whatever,whatever we put out there.
But we create this unfair expectation of one person to
(31:37):
carry a very heavy load. So the parent really doesn't
want to talk about it. These conversations that can't
be had. Then gather the people who can
have the talk about division of responsibility.
Talk about what you know your parent needs based on your
history and shared experiences. How do we support them knowing
what we know are their values? And how do we treat them with
respect and compassion and dignity and independence, no
(31:59):
matter what their wishes? What resources are Yeah, I don't
I don't think we ever played noses.
I remember. I mean, really, the the
conversations we had because we had to deal with this with my
mom's dad, my mom's passing that, you know, she was in
Maryland, I was in Oregon, a sister in West Virginia, one in
Maryland who was closer to wheremy wife, where my mom was living
(32:21):
and which sister I leave off my sister in Oklahoma and my sister
in Oklahoma ended up carrying kind of the the way to most of
the responsibilities. She was trying to get my mother
to move out there with her and, and do some of those types of
things. So I think we've, we handed
handled it fairly well. You know, I was much more
(32:42):
willing, you know, I'm supportive of the decisions.
I'm willing to give up, you know, decisions and trusting,
you know, and trusting my younger sister to kind of make
the decision she needed to make.And so we kind of conversation,
we probably all ultimately couldhave done it a little bit
better. And it probably would have been
better to have done it much earlier than when we, you know,
really kind of realized my mom was in, you know, in worse
(33:04):
shape. And there were a lot of issues
that she had that we just couldn't have been aware of.
You know, she had a esophageal issue where she wasn't able to
swallow food. And, you know, it wasn't until
we kind of learned that she was having trouble keeping food
down. And then we got to check that.
And really it was like almost like she created a stomach above
her diaphragm that was holding food.
(33:26):
And then, you know, food wouldn't get down in the
digestive tract. So she was essentially dying
malnutrition, even though, you know, we're making sure she's
getting food and all those typesof things.
And so, you know, best I could do is get, I was sending her
protein shake. You know, the bottle of protein
shake is like at least get that down, get some nutrients, you
know, they can pass through the the diaphragm into the stomach
(33:49):
and at least get some nutrition down there.
It's not gonna be regurgitated 'cause we'd even tried.
I mean, we were sending. The best you could do.
Yeah, we were sending her a meal.
You know, we those meal plans where you can you get the you
pick the foods that you want andshe was able to pick the
different foods that she wanted.And we were just providing, you
know, at least a couple. I think we're probably buying
maybe all three meals a day or at least a couple meals a day.
(34:11):
But we didn't know that they weren't actually doing her any
good because they weren't getting into her system.
But nobody knew that. Even my sister that was there
with her, you know, in the same town couldn't have known that,
you know, So my mom needed to behaving a little bit better
conversation with us. So that is that that's what
golden agreements are about. It's basically saying like in
the first of all, my, my heart goes out to you and your family,
(34:34):
because that's a really difficult thing to watch
somebody you love go through something that that difficult
and you didn't know and you probably feel a little bit of a
sadness that you didn't know. This notion of golden
agreements, this notion of families coming together would
be in a perfect world, which there isn't, doesn't exist.
But if it did that, the person who's designated to be the
(34:54):
healthcare power of attorney andthere's a number of
responsibilities that can help you, they would there, they
would know more from the doctor directly than the conduit of
your mom to tell you. I, I often think of it kind of
like spokes on a wheel. The axle is the person we're
planning for the loved one. They make that wheel turn.
(35:14):
As long as they're alive, that wheel is turning.
And all the spokes that come in are the different professionals
who come into your life to help you get there.
That's your doctors, that's yourfinancial people, that's your
estate attorney. If you have one, that's your
social worker, that's your assistance programs, that's your
Medicaid. All of those things are the
(35:34):
spokes on the wheel. And when all the spokes go
directly to the axle, it actually doesn't work.
There's a hub around the axle. That's what makes it work.
That hub is the family. Those are the people that are
closest to you. They can take in all that
information and make sure it's being synthesized in the best
possible way and coordinated in the best possible way to help
(35:55):
your loved one. And that, that to me is the
essence of what golden Agreements is about, are the
family agreements that hold thathub together to really help your
loved one age and go through that journey with the most
support possible. It's just rethinking how we do
it. I like that analogy, really
makes a lot of sense and so hopefully that's not wasted on
our audience as they listen to this or watch this podcast, so.
(36:17):
I really commend you for openingup these hard conversations.
It is not easy to think about aging.
It is not easy to think about our loved ones ever leaving us.
Easy to think about the day willcome for absolutely everyone of
us when we can't pay our bills, or we can't tell our families
what the doctor said, or we can't necessarily remember every
appointment we have, or proactively think about how to
do fall prevention in our house.These are all parts of aging,
(36:41):
but we don't want to think aboutthose parts and but there's
another way to do it. And So what are some of the
resources or tools that you would recommend for families
just in the beginning process ofplanning for long term care or
end of life decisions? First of all, again, I'll send
you back to my website because I've got all kinds of
information. I have a whole long glossary of
terminology so that you know when you're looking for an
(37:04):
somebody to somebody to come to the house to help your your
family member. Are you looking for a companion?
Are you looking for an aide? Are you looking for a, are you
looking for a, you know, there'sa different, you know, so
there's a, there is a glossary so that when you're trying to
figure out what you need, it's at least a starting place to get
the, the language together to know what you're asking.
I'm also coming out soon. I don't know how soon, but I'm
(37:24):
going to be coming out soon withthe do it yourself question and
answer so that you can start asking these hard questions and
the right questions to organize your family.
But really, I think what can youdo today?
What can you do now is gather consensus in your family that
you're not leaving it to chance and crisis and that you're going
to build a plan. And then organically or through
(37:46):
a little research or through some inspiration from the
website, start having the hard conversations and not being
afraid of them. Really understanding that they
are part of a much more peacefulfuture.
A little planning ahead. Something I get a lot of
kickback on is I don't know. I don't, you know what, you
change your mind or life's goingto throw things at you.
(38:06):
You don't know how you how do you plan for that?
And I say a plan, a plan that you modify or pivot from is
better than no plan. Aging is unpredictable, but
planning for it isn't. Hey, you can plan for
unpredictability. You are better off in
unpredictable situations when you had a plan going into it.
So how can our listeners find and evaluate trustworthy like
(38:27):
legal, financial, healthcare resources in their area?
First of all, identifying what it is you need is always a
critical first step. People say, Oh my gosh, I need
an estate plan. Can I just go on online and
download something or do I need to talk?
That's really individual to the fans.
So the first thing you have to do is define it is that you
think you need and what your family genuinely is.
(38:48):
Find it far as finding credible.You know, I'm kind of old
fashioned this way. Talk to the people who've done
it well, people that you really respect and say, who did you
use? How did you find them?
I have different neighborhoods, different areas have different
resources for figuring that out.There are so many professionals
in this aging space, right? I'm only focusing on the family,
(39:10):
but the number of spokes that gointo that hub are so many.
There's a aging consultants, there are geriatric Dr. there
are and all these resources haveresources.
So when you really figure out what you need and you get the
team together, they're going to be able to help turn you over to
the people that you need. It sounds like you really have
(39:30):
to kind of have some of the conversations with even outside
of the hub, you know, certainly,you know, interact with the
other hubs, you know, what are other families doing?
Who are, who are their parents going to see for, you know,
financial consulting or legal advice and that types of things?
And I'm going to add on to that,especially if you're your loved
(39:52):
one has the capacity to be involved in it, start with their
friends. Don't just start with your
friends. If they know that somebody that
they love and trust used somebody, they're going to feel
more secure talking to that sameperson.
It's a good point. So in your experience, what's
the biggest transformation families experience when they
engage in this kind of planning?Sense of peace.
I that's what I hear the most. When we're done with this plan
(40:15):
and I deliver the package at theend.
I often hear how much, whether little or metaphorically, how
much better people are sleeping at night.
That they are less worried aboutthe future.
They're less influenced by what's happening to the people
around them and the some of the horror stories they're hearing
from their friends. They feel like I got a plan.
(40:36):
Does it tend to bring a little bit more unity to families,
particularly like siblings, as they're kind of gathering
together and maybe having hard conversations that might stir up
some friction? But we know that friction often
polishes the stone, so that's right.
Is there there benefits to the family that even though they
(40:56):
might have to go through the hard conversations, that they
come out of it stronger? I think that's generally true.
I'm sure it's not always true. It's not always true, it's not
always true. So this is just one part of
life. This is just one piece of it.
So you can't say that having a plan is going to be the, the,
the panacea to family harmony. That's not how it works.
(41:20):
But I'll share another story because I do think your
listeners will appreciate the familiarity of some of these
stories in their own lives. Another, another woman I was
working with said that had said to me in my, our private meeting
first that in the event that shecouldn't stay at home and her
intention was to move in with one of her sons because he had a
really big house and, and the room for her.
(41:42):
And that would be where she would go.
Because we, we go granular on, on this planning idea.
And when we had our family meeting and she has four
children and they were all on the video call and I relayed her
intentions. If she was unable to aid in
place that she would move into this big House of herself.
Oh, he lost his mind. He lost his mind and he said,
(42:02):
Mom, I renovated my house three years ago.
If you had planned to move into my what's now a small living
room, if you had planned to movein there, why didn't you tell
me? I would have built a bathroom.
I would have built a closet. I am tapped out.
I am not renovating another inchof this house and you are not
moving in here. And you got a little sense of
(42:22):
what the family dynamics going on there?
Were we just fine? Not my place to judge.
I just listen, the siblings werenot happy that siblings response
that was net effect of that conversation.
However, it didn't take long to actually facilitate a
conversation whereby another sonstepped up and said, when my
(42:43):
daughter moves to college next year, in the event you needed to
not live at home, which we hope is not what happens.
If I renovated her room, would you be willing to move in there?
And the family not only agreed, but that the the the sibling who
had said no way, not my house agreed to help with the cost of
renovating that room because that son was really happy to
have another solution. So even though I think there was
(43:04):
a family dynamic there that I don't want to know about, I do
think that there is agreement around issues related to the
people we love. Yeah, that story didn't go the
way I thought it was going to go.
I thought, So what? Did you think was going to
happen? Pissed off at the guy that, you
know, she planned to move in with because why not?
You know what's wrong with my house and this and that kind of
stuff? It was another.
(43:25):
Part, you know, this is the, this is the beauty, honestly.
And this is true for everybody, all your listeners.
It really helps to have a third party involved in these
conversations. Some professional golden
agreement says it, but you can also rely on other resources,
friends, like I said, clergy. Having an independent in the
room for these hard conversations tends to help
(43:47):
facilitate a better outcome whenyou don't get stuck in the weeds
of family dynamics. So what do you wish more people
understood about aging and the role of family communication in
navigating it well? I think I'm going to let
everybody off the hook for a moment.
We are raised to respect our parents.
We are raised to listen to them and often not question what they
(44:10):
say. And then when we get to the
aging process to really be involved, you have no choice.
So I think my recommendation to look at this evolution of the
relationship as a bonding beforethis versus earth where you open
up communication in a way you never have before.
You learn how to support that person instead of seeing it as
an on your life. Perfect answer.
(44:32):
So I'm going to shift gears here.
I'm going to ask you the question that we ask of all of
our guests. What are you doing personally to
age well? I am valuing my connections
first and foremost. I have my connection with my
children, my friends, my community, and as evidenced by
the fact that I'm sitting here talking to you, I am living my
dream. I am chasing dreams.
(44:53):
I'm not afraid to dream. I have a dream.
I have more than a dream, a lifelong experience to know that
other people can benefit information, their lives can be
improved and thousands of hours of turmoil and can be replaced.
A solid plan and it puts life, it creates quality of life for
others as well. So for me, that's what aging
well is, is continuing to live my dream.
(45:14):
That's awesome. And where can our listeners
learn more about Golden Agreements and begin this work
with their own families? I have a website,
goldenagreements.com I we're on Instagram.
We're a new company, so we're not all over the airwaves yet,
but we're getting there. We also have a, a shop of
curated products on the website.Really focusing not on, well,
(45:39):
really focusing on the essentials for aging something
it's really important. For instance, pop fall
prevention. Something we talked about
earlier you had a guest on was talking about his book on fall
prevention. He listed a lot of things
everybody should be considering having in their life to help.
I made sure every single one of those are under the category of
fall prevention on the website so you can get a sense of the
(46:00):
products that can help. I also encourage family members
that fall prevention is a group activity.
Typically, it's not till it's too late that we realize we
could have a handle, a grip, a grip in the shower could have
prevented a fall. Thinking of those things early,
nobody wants to. Everyone wants to feel
independent like they were still18 years old.
But we're not. So helping, helping our loved
(46:23):
ones see can help maintain theirindependence, keep them safe in
their home. There's at least a good list.
There's AI. Think an article or two, room by
room of things that you can haveto improve safety, improve
quality of life and convenience.So I recommend people go to the
shop to get ideas, see what theyneed to improve the safety of
(46:46):
the home. And my contact information is
there S goodman@goldenagreements.com.
I'm here as a resource to help families put together their
plans to help them think throughwhat needs to be.
Oh, I also have another service that I want to just mention
because I think that it's through through the golden
agreements process, I get to know families quite intimate in
(47:07):
terms of their values and and what's made them get to where
they are and and some of the wishes of the golden clown.
So I do offer another service called the Legacy Vault, which
is just a 2 hour video where I take information from the family
and we do a video recording essentially of the values that
made of the stories that made the values that are the person
(47:29):
today. And it's not a high quality.
You can you can go out and get really professionally done
videos that, but this is what I would call from the heart
videos, the things that people want to share and leave for
their children, their grandchildren, their great
grandchildren and beyond, how they aged well, telling their
story. It's awesome.
And is there anything we missed talking about that you want to
(47:51):
share with the audience? Let's take a look here.
I guess what I'm going to leave your listeners with this.
Believing that we're never goingto die and that we can just keep
pushing for longevity can reallyinterfere with living our best
life. So make sure the people you love
are around you. Make sure you have those
connections that make life worth.
And keep aging well. And keep aging well.
(48:11):
Thank you for listening. I hope you benefited from
today's podcast and until next time, keep aging well.
Welcome to the Aging Well Podcast, where we explore the
science, stories and strategies behind living a longer,
healthier, and more purposeful life.
Joining me is Stephanie Goodman,Founder of Golden Agreements, a
service devoted to helping families navigate the
complexities of aging with grace, clarity, and compassion.
With over 2 decades of experience in family support and
(00:24):
elder care, Stephanie is passionate about creating space
for honest conversations. There's difficult but necessary
talks that allow families to honor their loved ones
independence, dignity, and deeply held wishes.
If you've ever felt overwhelmed by the uncertainty around your
parents care, unsure how to begin planning, or afraid of the
hard conversations that aging demands, this episode will offer
(00:47):
not only empathy but also practical tools and hope for the
journey ahead. Stephanie, welcome to the Aging
Well podcast. I wanted you to begin by just
telling us a little bit about yourself and really what
inspired you to create Golden Agreements and what need were
you seeing in families that led you to this creation?
Thank you. It's nice to meet you and thank
(01:08):
you for inviting me on. I started this company just this
year, but I've actually been in this situation for more than 20
where I've been helping families, helping my own family,
the process of planning for aging.
We spend a lot of time thinking about estate planning for after
we're gone. We spend a lot of time thinking
about how to extend our lives and how to live quality lives
(01:31):
with supplement and with exercise and things like that,
but we spend a lot less time thinking about the people who
are going to be on the journey with us all the way to the end.
My father was diagnosed with ALSin the early 2000.
He passed in 2004. And that started my journey.
So I've really been at this for over 25 years.
(01:53):
And in the process, I also started a women's group called
Project Refind. And so I meet with many women my
age range. We're all dealing with the same
things. We are raising our families and
we are watching our parents age.And the struggles and the
difficulties are universal. So we really hone in on how to
(02:15):
age, how to go through the journey, not just for our
parents, but for ourselves. And it's a really a rethink of
how we look at aging rather thanthe crisis management that tends
to be the cornerstone of how we look at aging today.
So how do you define aging well?For me, aging well is the
ability to be independent, the ability to chase your dreams and
(02:36):
be surrounded with the people who love you so that you're not
doing it alone. That's aging well.
That's pretty much how we defineit here, I think.
So what are some of the most common struggles you see with
families as they're facing trying to navigate aging
together? Let's do a quick history lesson.
Really, today everybody wants todo what's called age in place.
(02:57):
That means live in their homes alone, independently, with their
dignity, doing exactly what theywant to do all the way until the
time that they pass. But that's a really relatively
new phenomenon because if you goback to the early 1900s, we were
still living together in multi generational families.
We were still living in the sameneighborhoods.
We were watching out for our aging elders and we knew what
(03:17):
their needs were and we were taking care of them.
And there weren't even as many people and options to be a part
of it. So it was really relied on the
family. And then throughout the 1900s,
with realization and urbanization and people moving
around the country, we left our family units.
And in response to that, we saw institutional support, we saw
aging homes, we nursing homes, we saw communities, retirement
(03:41):
communities pop up where some ofthose support systems were, were
built into the new systems. And then with Social Security,
Medicare, Medicaid, people couldafford more of that.
So those really proliferated. And really if you look at the
the Census Bureau, it wasn't until about the mid 1980s that
we invented this idea that we'regoing to live in place, we're
going to age in place and we're going to do it ourselves all the
(04:03):
way to the end. And so if you look at it about a
4045 year old phenomenon, you can see why we are in a
situation where people are in crisis.
And the fallout to your questionabout what's the greatest
challenge is I see families being divided.
I see nightmare scenarios where people are not experiencing the
outcomes that they hope or with their loved one because they
(04:24):
hadn't planned to go through this journey in a way that they
were genuinely supported and thefamily understood everybody was
rowing in the same direction basically.
That's a really new concept to aging in place, and very few
people do that. So how do you define a golden
agreement and why is this such apowerful tool for aging well?
(04:46):
A golden agreement is essentially a family contract,
and it's a very specific family contract where we go through and
look at critical elements need to be defined, hopefully well
ahead of the crisis to make surethat we actually have a plan.
I liken it to if you're going tohave a child, you have some
version of a birth plan. You go to a Lamar class, you go
(05:06):
to a breastfeeding class, perhaps you make a nursery, you
arrange your childcare, you get the accoutrements for your
house, the stroller, the all theparts and pieces that you think
will help you go through that life transition planned for.
Does it always go according to plan?
Absolutely not. But it doesn't make the plan any
(05:27):
less valuable or necessary to gointo that life transition.
And so for me, golden agreementsare those same planning tools.
Typically you've got the two parents who are on the same page
about who's going to do which responsibilities, How are we
going to handle this baby? How are we going to manage our
life through this transition? And aging really has to be
(05:47):
thought of the same way rather than as a solo independent
journey, because that really does not serve you well if you
plan to be with the people you love in a really harmonious way
through life. We hear a lot about the sandwich
generation where we have, you know, people that are kind of
involved in their careers and they're taking care of maybe
their own kids. But then they also now have to
(06:09):
because like myself, I'm an older parent.
I had my kids when I was in my early 40s.
So now it's 62, you know, they're just now entering
college, which, and I think backit's like when my dad was 62, I
think that's about when I was having like that's when I
started having my kids. And you know, it's we hear about
the sandwich generation. Are you seeing that occurring
(06:32):
more that kids are being willing, or maybe it's more
forced into taking care of theirparents?
Are they doing it willingly or is this, you know, something
that is causing some of the friction in these families?
That's really a great question. There's a little bit of a
chicken in the egg on this one. First of all, we did not our
(06:53):
generation, we did not invent aid.
What's been going on forever, all that's really changed is our
expectation of how we can do things.
And the sense of independence iswhat we see in this aging in
place. So what's forgotten in the aging
in place mentality is there's really four critical key
elements that need to be in place for that to be successful
(07:15):
so that it isn't a burden on ourchildren or it isn't a burden on
us if we're caring for our parents.
The 1st is home readiness. If the home, if your if your
parents, if you are living in a two-story home and your bedroom
is upstairs, the day is going tocome.
We're going up those stairs is probably going to be a
challenge. Likelihood is anyway there will
be a few people who can manage that.
(07:36):
But is the house appropriate? Have safety measures been taken
to create a safe home for that person to be able to live there?
Have you installed grab rails inthe bathroom?
Have you done the lighting? Even as we age at our age, we
should be doing little things along the way that keep us
safer, more convenience. Maybe your eyes aren't as good
as they once were. Maybe you need to improve the
(07:58):
lighting. There are steps all along the
way that we can be taking. So home readiness, that's can be
a barrier to aging in place. Financial constraints.
There's a lot of cost associatedwith staying alone.
And when I say alone, I don't mean that there isn't aren't
people living in your house. I mean, aging in place is a
commitment to living independently through the rest
(08:18):
of your life. That can be very expensive.
Health issues and the need for care can exceed what can happen
in a house. And then you need to really
consider other living situationsor you need to consider bringing
help into the house that also has all kinds of barriers to
entry in certain situations. And then lastly, there's a lack
of social support. There's an isolation that
(08:39):
happens when you choose to age in place.
So it's really up to your familyto address those four issues
because as you age, your capacity to genuinely understand
what your needs are, be proactive to make sure those
needs are being met, it's diminished.
We know that's part of aging. It's OK.
It doesn't mean you've lost yourmind.
It doesn't mean you have dementia.
It's just we just know that's part of aging.
(09:00):
Eventually you're gonna need support.
So aging in place, Well, 85% of all adults currently told AARP
that's what they plan to do. That really requires a plan.
And that so the sandwich generation is really saying this
is a bigger burden than I thought.
So with appropriate planning, which is what Golden Agreements
does, we spread out all of thoseresponsibilities amongst the
(09:22):
family and loved ones. We really identify who's going
to do what. And then what does it mean if
you have the financial power of attorney for somebody?
What does that mean while they're alive, Not just at the
very end of their life, but how do you support them throughout
their aging journey? So it's not dramatic.
So it's not difficult when the time comes.
There's so many planning steps you can do to be able to support
(09:44):
your loved one, both in health and finances and safety and
social. So we really look at all of
those aspects and we spread out,we divide the responsibilities
and we make sure that the personwe're planning for, the golden
client, knows who to turn to when they need support because
that's also with dignity, often a problem.
They don't want to say I need help.
(10:05):
They said, Nope, I got this, I got this.
I don't need any help. But the truth is, we all need
the help, and if we want to be with the people we love at the
end of our life, we have to include them in our journey.
So why do so many families avoidthese conversations until
there's a crisis? I think I've heard a lot of
really heartfelt explanations tothat question, but most of them
really don't stand up to the test of reality.
(10:28):
One of them is, I love this one.I'm afraid if I talk about
dying, I will die. OK, I'm pretty sure we're all
going to meet that death anyway.We're all going to get there
anyway. I don't think talking about it
expedites it. One of the one of the great
paradoxes is that actually the better we plan for aging, the
better we do it aging. And that's you've you, you're
preaching that. You're talking about that all
(10:49):
the time on this podcast. Plan for it.
Plan for the exercise, plan for the healthy eating, plan for the
sleeping, plan for the fall prevention.
All of these planning exercises will improve the quality of your
life. But what we don't talk about is
how to include the people we love because we it is a sense of
giving up our independence and nobody wants to give up their
(11:10):
independence. I understand that.
And I let me just follow up withone other thought on that.
The common saying is that you end up parenting the parent
child role becomes reversed. Right now you're parenting your
parent. I cannot say more emphatically
turn that one on its head. You are not parenting your you
are evolving your relationship to give them the kind of support
(11:31):
and love that they gave you. But that is not the same thing
is parenting your parent. If it was, then much like when
you have a 5 year old having a tantrum, you'll just tell them
what to do and you'll exert thatkind of control.
But out of respect and love for your parents, there is a way to
do this without parenting your parent.
And I'm going to, I'll tell everybody goldenagreements.com,
we have articles, they're all free.
(11:52):
I think we have about 6-8 articles just on hard
conversations and another 6 rated articles on talking about
the pros and cons of aging in place.
These are just hard things to talk about but really helpful
for helping our parents. So what are some key elements or
must haves in a healthy, proactive family dialogue about
(12:14):
aging and future care? Division of Labor, division of
responsibility. It's not really labor, it's
division of responsibilities amongst all the different
places. Sometimes there isn't somebody
for every responsibility, but then identifying who you're
going to bring in to do it. So typically the areas of
responsibility fall into financial and that's not just
(12:35):
paying the bills, that's making sure that you've really worked
with the right professionals to make sure you've planned for
your financial future and that your family knows where the
limitations of that are. That's that is often a big deal
that parents have less money than their children thought that
they did for their aging years. So I've actually assembled an
advisory team. I have a doctor, a financial
(12:55):
person and a state attorney, psychiatrist, a psychologist, a
critical care doctor. I have a lot of people who've
ask the questions if you could meet with the entire family
instead of just the the senior, what would you ask them?
What would you want them to know?
And they've given me a list of questions.
And so how to best support and what do people need to know is
(13:17):
that there's deeper levels and layers to what you need to do to
early on support this question, but.
No, you did perfectly. That was that was a great
answer. And you know, you talk about the
division of responsibility. I almost want to say, you know,
lean into like the vision of opportunity, you know, because
if we consider it in an opportunity and we're repaying
(13:39):
our parents, our parents, no matter how crappy of parents
they were, we are still who we are because they brought us into
this world and, you know, gave us the blessing of existence.
And, you know, they did their best to raise us.
And where they fell short were the areas that we got to grow
and become better people, hopefully.
And so, you know, we owe it to them.
(14:01):
I don't want to say owe it, but,you know, we, it's an
opportunity for us to kind of pay back the love and, you know,
the, you know, care that we weregiven.
I'm going to take it one step. Further, there are some people
who for whom the past is too sensitive, it's too difficult to
think about how to really show their parents that kind of
(14:21):
involvement and respect through their aging years.
I get it. That happens.
What about us? We're all going to age also, we
we owe it to our kids to build abetter future for them so that
they aren't stuck with our crises, so that they're not
thinking about Oh no, what am I going to do?
How am I going to possibly manage this for my parent with
we start early. If we have this plan for our
(14:44):
kids. I already do Many of my friends
now do we give them a gift? It is a gift of gift of peace.
They are not going to be surprised wondering how are mom?
How are we going to help mom anddad later another the problem is
that kids tend to overreact. We tend to jump in and trying to
fix everything for our parents and they don't want to be have
it fixed and they fight back andthey bark back and they say I
(15:06):
don't want this. That's not a relationship where
it's sustainable. If you have a relationship like
that through your parents aging journal journey by the time they
pass, you're what a relief and we see that.
I know you know people like that.
I know people like that where that was the dynamic.
It doesn't have to be that way, but it requires preparation.
And so that's, it's my message for everyone.
(15:30):
It doesn't take a lot of preparation.
It just takes having the hard conversations open up these
conversations. Do you need golden agreements to
have them? Absolutely not.
Do we provide a service to go through the whole gamut and give
you a, a written and a video andeverything else to sort of
create a game plan? Absolutely.
But there's plenty of families where you can, you can have
these conversations without golden agreements, but you can
(15:51):
still think about it as a goldenagreement where it's a family
commitment where everybody sees the future in the same way and
knows their responsibilities, knows what's expected of them,
plans their life to include those responsibilities instead
of being asked to do things haphazardly when maybe it's not
convenient. That's what golden agreements
are really all about. And do you pull more than just
(16:14):
the parent child relationship inthere and you pull like the
grandchildren in there as well or as many generations that can
be involved as possible? Is that recommended?
It depends on the family. Not all families are set up for
that. I do.
I did one family. It was really nice.
So this woman, her husband had already passed and she has two
(16:35):
daughters and both of them are sole, sole proprietor business
owners. So her concern was the kids are
taking her to doctor's appointments or helping her with
her needs, that they would be losing income.
And that was a really big concern about being a burden on
her children. So two things came out of that.
Number one, we came up with a formula for compensation.
(16:56):
She wanted to make sure that if her kids were going to take time
away from work to help her, thatthey, that she essentially was
paying them both equally for their time so that they didn't
feel the burden of being pulled away from their.
And then the second part is whenwe've got into some of the
granular responsibilities. She has four grandchildren.
So we actually did pull in, in the social planning particular
(17:19):
in particular because those grandchildren are still pretty
young. They're in high school, but we
pulled in some of the planning for social connection, social
connectivity. Even if when they go off to
college, the kids have agreed that there's certain days it'll
be there check in FaceTime days.And they love their grandmother.
They're thrilled to do it. They are happy to be part of the
program. They are a bit on the young
(17:39):
side, but it really depends on the family.
So how do you help families honor both the wishes of the
aging loved one and the needs ofthe caregivers?
Really often as we age, certain things we want we can't have,
not everybody, but things come up that are just not going to be
practical and it's too much for the caregiver to be able to
handle. That's why Golden Agreement's
(18:01):
being done on the earlier side, particularly in our generation.
Doing it early and making sure that the wishes are actually
backed up by the values. Understanding what the values
are that drive those wishes willhelp caregivers direct their
loved ones in a direction that both honors their values and
promotes their safety, well-being and health.
(18:22):
Because sometimes they are at odds and caregiver burnout
often, not always, there's multiple kinds reasons for
caregiver burnout, but often caregiver burnout is the
relentless push to maintain health and safety against the
pushback of the senior. I don't don't touch me or, you
know, things that make it hard to be a care create an
(18:43):
accelerated burnout. So the first step to me is
understanding those values, understanding what makes it most
important. I'm going to share one other
story that probably is helpful for a lot of people.
I didn't. I worked with another family and
I we talked about when will you give up driving?
What under what circumstances would you give up?
Always a conversation much easier facilitated by an
outsider than inside of a familyand the, the respondent said.
(19:07):
When my hands and feet fall off till then, I won't give up
driving. And in the course of our
conversation, we got down to thecore value that he really didn't
want to be in his social. He has a wonderful social
routine every day and he did notwant to be in a situation where
he was reliant on his children to come pick him up.
(19:27):
That was embarrassing. There were other people in the
in the group that were already experiencing that.
To him, that was the ultimate sign of lack of dignity and
independence. And that drove his I will
always, always drive mentality. So when we got to the core value
of what was behind it, we were able to come up with the system.
This person happens to live on the East Coast where the weather
(19:48):
isn't as nice as it is here in California.
And so the family agreed to an Uber app or a Lyft app on his
phone, teach him how to use it. He agreed to use it only on
really weather difficult days where it's really raining hard.
He said, yes, it's a little hardto drive in the rain.
Yes, it's a little hard to drivein the snow.
So he agreed. With the family to become
(20:10):
familiar with using that app forindependence and that that
started the transition because it he was at an age and at a
certain other issues where not driving was going to become more
important. There are ways to get to the
values of what people want and avoid the conflicts that create
the burnout. So what point in our lives
(20:30):
should we consider formulating agolden agreement?
Like for ourselves or for? It's never too.
I'm going to tell you I have kids in their 20s.
They haven't done the full Golden agreements protocol, but
we. Plan.
But we have done is we've lookedat the necessary documents and
the legal documents that would make a sudden tragic event more
(20:53):
manageable. So those documents exist whether
they're advanced care directives, whether they are
access to to finances to be ableto help make decisions, a third
party authorization agreements. I'm on all the lists as well as
a sibling because I have 4 kids,but me and one of their siblings
(21:14):
are on all of their healthcare release information releases.
These are small, small steps youcan take at any age to make this
process easier for your family. Because if you have to show
cause or go to court or get legal documents to then step in
and help your loved ones, you'rejust delaying the process and
creating a lot of crisis for theperson who's trying to help you.
(21:37):
All these steps can be done at any point in time.
There's really If anything, there's a too late, not a too
early. And what would be too late?
The too late is when the the golden client is unable to
really articulate what their needs and wants are with any
substance for the family to be able to work with.
That's when it's a little bit too late.
(21:58):
So I do work with those familiesas well to talk about the
divisions of responsibilities, to talk about all the things
that can be done ahead of time to help create ease through the
process. I've had conversations.
I have a psychiatrist on my my board who will help with
capacity issues when that's necessary.
Fortunately, we try to work around things like that.
(22:19):
We don't really like to go the to that end, we believe
everybody has a say in that. And the more we understand the
values of those, we also do videotape.
We do a lot of videotape in the end of our part.
We do the family conversation onvideotape and we ask very, I ask
very specific questions so that the family can go back and see
what those values were when their loved one had full
(22:40):
thoughtfulness and full capacity.
Another client told her her kids, that if she was diagnosed
with certain kinds of short diagnosis, geoblastoma, ALS,
pancreatic cancer, certain very specific things that she could
point to that she knew had a short ending and rather painful
(23:02):
ending that for her in her valuesystem.
She really wanted her kids to know.
She wants them to expedite getting to that end process.
She'll put it in her advanced care directives.
But what a what a peaceful gift to give her kids on video, to
say, I give you permission when these hard conversations come up
with my doctors, please don't don't hesitate.
This is what I really, really want.
(23:23):
And what a gift. What a gift for those kids to
have that kind of clarity. I've.
Heard it from many different people where, you know, a dying
parent will often hang on simplybecause they, they don't feel
like their kids feel like they have permission to let them go,
you know, and that they feel sometimes like I figure when I
(23:43):
was hearing the story that, you know, the family was in the room
constantly with the parent and parent just kept hanging on,
hanging on. And as soon as they they left
the room, it was like they died because they knew in their heart
of hearts that now, you know, they can just do it without
having to feel like they're dragging their kids along or
(24:05):
hurting their kids at all or making them feel guilty.
And so it is important to reallyhave those conversations early.
And I think probably throughout the lifespan, I mean, from the
time our kids are old enough to comprehend, we need to be having
those conversations because, youknow, things can happen even if
we're in our, you know, 30s withkids, our 40s, you know, we
don't have to wait until our 8090, a hundred years old to
(24:27):
start having a conversation about what's going to happen
when I, you know, I'm in this situation.
If you if you go back in time oryou look at some other cultures,
multi generational living gave young children exposure to the
stages of life, all stages of life.
And as they grew up, they were watching and learning not just
(24:47):
how to help supportive, but how to do it right for their
children. Later in a post
industrialization world, in a world of globalization and
spreading out, some of those lessons have been lost and we
need to figure out how to put them back into the family.
And fortunately, technology makes it easier than ever.
We can FaceTime the people we love.
We can videotape the people we love.
(25:09):
We can have these lasting memories.
It is an art. It is a piece of learning and
living that we don't get anymore.
It's just a byproduct of where we are.
I will share because I've had this come up many times.
People say, well, what are the Asian cultures I hear?
And you know, multi generational, multi generational
living is more prevalent in other societies.
(25:29):
I did a study on it. I wanted to understand what are
the best practices, right? I thought I was going to carry
forward the best practices. And I will only say this it does
still exist. It does still exist in parts of
the world more than others, but there is no one country that
does it so right that we should all be looking at it.
In China for instance, the one child policy has had a
(25:51):
tremendous effect on multi generational living.
There's only one person out there that's their actual child
to help them and many of them have moved away from their
villages and towns and so it's become a community and
government LED support. But there's no perfect solution
out there just isn't. I do know though, we have lost
some of the lessons in family unity through the aging I.
(26:13):
Personally kind of miss the dayswhen multi generations all lived
relatively close to one another.I mean, my grandparents were,
they weren't right in Pittsburghwhere I grew up, but they were
like an hour away and we got to see them pretty frequently.
I had a lot of friends who, you know, growing up in a small
community with front porches. Their grandparents lived with
them. You knew their grandparents and
(26:34):
it was just, there was more thanjust the family involved in the,
the aging adult. There was the community as well.
And I think we've lost so much of that that we've kind of
distanced ourselves and and we've LED ageism kind of creep
into our lives a little bit morewhere we're more fearful of
death and in aging is so negative rather than a positive.
(26:55):
And we don't lean into the opportunities we have to
experience what our aging adultsare doing.
That makes sense. So, well, it is nostalgia to
think about the days when grandparents were our great
grandparents even were doing thecaretaking for the children, you
know, the grandchildren, the great grandchildren, Oh, drop
(27:16):
them off at my house and buy later and get them it it still
happens And and definitely, you know, but for many of us, myself
included, that's just nostalgic waxing on the, the, the past or,
or, or relying on movies to tellus how it was done right.
It's not true across the board, but it is a beautiful.
(27:37):
It's a beautiful sign of life when your whole family is part
of your aging journey. Right.
So, can you share an example of a family promise and how it
helped a family navigate a toughdecision?
Yeah, brain just got flooded actually with a lot of a lot of
examples because I fortunately Ido hear from people about
moments that are critical. The medical seems to be the
(28:00):
obvious one to go to, but I'm going to go to something a
little more basic. Here's a good one.
So one family, the parents were deciding between building a
bathroom downstairs and a room to live in, to make their house
accessible for aging in place ormoving into a spare room in
their daughter's home. And this was a decision they
(28:20):
were absolutely agonizing, the golden agreement of the things
that they had decided that they would all agree to, right?
Because a golden agreement is only good if everybody agrees to
it. The in looking at what their
children were prepared to do forthem, they went through the list
of the golden agreements. And, and instead of making the
(28:40):
question about do we build a bathroom or do we move in with
our daughter, they reframed the entire question around which
solution best honors the agreements we've made as a
thing. What is the easiest way to live
up to what we said we want to dorather than go with maybe our
instinct about where our independence might be?
Could they end up? And they did end up moving into
(29:03):
their daughter's house and they did so because they're they have
an agreement too. It's not just our agreement what
we'll do for our loved ones, butit's their agreement with what
they'll do to help us support them.
It's a two way street. So in this case, that golden
agreement, that series of goldenagreement is actually what they
were relying on as they had a hard conversation to make that
difficult decision. So what advice would you give to
(29:26):
adult children who feel overwhelmed and don't know
really where to start these conversations?
I would say go to my website, myarticles are written from
they're all free. It's a it's a perspective of we
know this is a hard conversation.
This is not fluff. This is what are the important
point. Have a conversation around.
I, I recommend to every family that you start from a place of
(29:47):
compassion and care. Aging is not something that we
didn't expect. It was always coming.
And when we treated as such, instead of a new burden that's
been put on our life, we tend tocome from a place of empathy,
place of consideration. I also say don't try to do it
alone. Bring in family members, bring
in loved ones, bring in a clergy, bring in a social
(30:09):
worker, bring in a family psychologist, whatever you need.
You don't have to do this alone.And sometimes it's really
important to look beyond the moment and say, if I have
another 20 years of helping my parent through this aging
process, is this the moment thatI want to define what that
relationships going to be like? Or can I make it easier?
Can I just not work so often? I think as children of aging
(30:32):
people, we think to ourselves, how does this impact me?
I'm raising my kids, I'm doing my family, I've got my marriage,
I've got my job. How is this impacting me?
And guess what? Asked at the right time, most of
our parents would say, I don't want to be a burden on your
life. So when you start closing that
gap and say, how do we do this without being a bird?
How do we make this something, as you pointed out, a joyful
refrain of the evolution of our relationships?
(30:54):
That would be my advice. And how do you address emotional
resistance or family members whojust don't want to talk about
aging or death? So sometimes you just can't have
those conversations. Sometimes you have to let it go.
It's not going to happen. But then you look at the people
who are going to be left behind and you say, can we have the
conversation sort of in levity? I don't know if your kids ever
(31:14):
played this game Noses where you're at the dinner table and
you say who's going to do the dishes and they go noses and the
last one to put their finger on the nose is the one who's it and
ends up doing the dishes. Often we look at helping our
parents the same way. Noses you do it.
That's on you. You're you live closest or you
they liked you best or whatever,whatever we put out there.
But we create this unfair expectation of one person to
(31:37):
carry a very heavy load. So the parent really doesn't
want to talk about it. These conversations that can't
be had. Then gather the people who can
have the talk about division of responsibility.
Talk about what you know your parent needs based on your
history and shared experiences. How do we support them knowing
what we know are their values? And how do we treat them with
respect and compassion and dignity and independence, no
(31:59):
matter what their wishes? What resources are Yeah, I don't
I don't think we ever played noses.
I remember. I mean, really, the the
conversations we had because we had to deal with this with my
mom's dad, my mom's passing that, you know, she was in
Maryland, I was in Oregon, a sister in West Virginia, one in
Maryland who was closer to wheremy wife, where my mom was living
(32:21):
and which sister I leave off my sister in Oklahoma and my sister
in Oklahoma ended up carrying kind of the the way to most of
the responsibilities. She was trying to get my mother
to move out there with her and, and do some of those types of
things. So I think we've, we handed
handled it fairly well. You know, I was much more
(32:42):
willing, you know, I'm supportive of the decisions.
I'm willing to give up, you know, decisions and trusting,
you know, and trusting my younger sister to kind of make
the decision she needed to make.And so we kind of conversation,
we probably all ultimately couldhave done it a little bit
better. And it probably would have been
better to have done it much earlier than when we, you know,
really kind of realized my mom was in, you know, in worse
(33:04):
shape. And there were a lot of issues
that she had that we just couldn't have been aware of.
You know, she had a esophageal issue where she wasn't able to
swallow food. And, you know, it wasn't until
we kind of learned that she was having trouble keeping food
down. And then we got to check that.
And really it was like almost like she created a stomach above
her diaphragm that was holding food.
(33:26):
And then, you know, food wouldn't get down in the
digestive tract. So she was essentially dying
malnutrition, even though, you know, we're making sure she's
getting food and all those typesof things.
And so, you know, best I could do is get, I was sending her
protein shake. You know, the bottle of protein
shake is like at least get that down, get some nutrients, you
know, they can pass through the the diaphragm into the stomach
(33:49):
and at least get some nutrition down there.
It's not gonna be regurgitated 'cause we'd even tried.
I mean, we were sending. The best you could do.
Yeah, we were sending her a meal.
You know, we those meal plans where you can you get the you
pick the foods that you want andshe was able to pick the
different foods that she wanted.And we were just providing, you
know, at least a couple. I think we're probably buying
maybe all three meals a day or at least a couple meals a day.
(34:11):
But we didn't know that they weren't actually doing her any
good because they weren't getting into her system.
But nobody knew that. Even my sister that was there
with her, you know, in the same town couldn't have known that,
you know, So my mom needed to behaving a little bit better
conversation with us. So that is that that's what
golden agreements are about. It's basically saying like in
the first of all, my, my heart goes out to you and your family,
(34:34):
because that's a really difficult thing to watch
somebody you love go through something that that difficult
and you didn't know and you probably feel a little bit of a
sadness that you didn't know. This notion of golden
agreements, this notion of families coming together would
be in a perfect world, which there isn't, doesn't exist.
But if it did that, the person who's designated to be the
(34:54):
healthcare power of attorney andthere's a number of
responsibilities that can help you, they would there, they
would know more from the doctor directly than the conduit of
your mom to tell you. I, I often think of it kind of
like spokes on a wheel. The axle is the person we're
planning for the loved one. They make that wheel turn.
(35:14):
As long as they're alive, that wheel is turning.
And all the spokes that come in are the different professionals
who come into your life to help you get there.
That's your doctors, that's yourfinancial people, that's your
estate attorney. If you have one, that's your
social worker, that's your assistance programs, that's your
Medicaid. All of those things are the
(35:34):
spokes on the wheel. And when all the spokes go
directly to the axle, it actually doesn't work.
There's a hub around the axle. That's what makes it work.
That hub is the family. Those are the people that are
closest to you. They can take in all that
information and make sure it's being synthesized in the best
possible way and coordinated in the best possible way to help
(35:55):
your loved one. And that, that to me is the
essence of what golden Agreements is about, are the
family agreements that hold thathub together to really help your
loved one age and go through that journey with the most
support possible. It's just rethinking how we do
it. I like that analogy, really
makes a lot of sense and so hopefully that's not wasted on
our audience as they listen to this or watch this podcast, so.
(36:17):
I really commend you for openingup these hard conversations.
It is not easy to think about aging.
It is not easy to think about our loved ones ever leaving us.
Easy to think about the day willcome for absolutely everyone of
us when we can't pay our bills, or we can't tell our families
what the doctor said, or we can't necessarily remember every
appointment we have, or proactively think about how to
do fall prevention in our house.These are all parts of aging,
(36:41):
but we don't want to think aboutthose parts and but there's
another way to do it. And So what are some of the
resources or tools that you would recommend for families
just in the beginning process ofplanning for long term care or
end of life decisions? First of all, again, I'll send
you back to my website because I've got all kinds of
information. I have a whole long glossary of
terminology so that you know when you're looking for an
(37:04):
somebody to somebody to come to the house to help your your
family member. Are you looking for a companion?
Are you looking for an aide? Are you looking for a, are you
looking for a, you know, there'sa different, you know, so
there's a, there is a glossary so that when you're trying to
figure out what you need, it's at least a starting place to get
the, the language together to know what you're asking.
I'm also coming out soon. I don't know how soon, but I'm
(37:24):
going to be coming out soon withthe do it yourself question and
answer so that you can start asking these hard questions and
the right questions to organize your family.
But really, I think what can youdo today?
What can you do now is gather consensus in your family that
you're not leaving it to chance and crisis and that you're going
to build a plan. And then organically or through
(37:46):
a little research or through some inspiration from the
website, start having the hard conversations and not being
afraid of them. Really understanding that they
are part of a much more peacefulfuture.
A little planning ahead. Something I get a lot of
kickback on is I don't know. I don't, you know what, you
change your mind or life's goingto throw things at you.
(38:06):
You don't know how you how do you plan for that?
And I say a plan, a plan that you modify or pivot from is
better than no plan. Aging is unpredictable, but
planning for it isn't. Hey, you can plan for
unpredictability. You are better off in
unpredictable situations when you had a plan going into it.
So how can our listeners find and evaluate trustworthy like
(38:27):
legal, financial, healthcare resources in their area?
First of all, identifying what it is you need is always a
critical first step. People say, Oh my gosh, I need
an estate plan. Can I just go on online and
download something or do I need to talk?
That's really individual to the fans.
So the first thing you have to do is define it is that you
think you need and what your family genuinely is.
(38:48):
Find it far as finding credible.You know, I'm kind of old
fashioned this way. Talk to the people who've done
it well, people that you really respect and say, who did you
use? How did you find them?
I have different neighborhoods, different areas have different
resources for figuring that out.There are so many professionals
in this aging space, right? I'm only focusing on the family,
(39:10):
but the number of spokes that gointo that hub are so many.
There's a aging consultants, there are geriatric Dr. there
are and all these resources haveresources.
So when you really figure out what you need and you get the
team together, they're going to be able to help turn you over to
the people that you need. It sounds like you really have
(39:30):
to kind of have some of the conversations with even outside
of the hub, you know, certainly,you know, interact with the
other hubs, you know, what are other families doing?
Who are, who are their parents going to see for, you know,
financial consulting or legal advice and that types of things?
And I'm going to add on to that,especially if you're your loved
(39:52):
one has the capacity to be involved in it, start with their
friends. Don't just start with your
friends. If they know that somebody that
they love and trust used somebody, they're going to feel
more secure talking to that sameperson.
It's a good point. So in your experience, what's
the biggest transformation families experience when they
engage in this kind of planning?Sense of peace.
I that's what I hear the most. When we're done with this plan
(40:15):
and I deliver the package at theend.
I often hear how much, whether little or metaphorically, how
much better people are sleeping at night.
That they are less worried aboutthe future.
They're less influenced by what's happening to the people
around them and the some of the horror stories they're hearing
from their friends. They feel like I got a plan.
(40:36):
Does it tend to bring a little bit more unity to families,
particularly like siblings, as they're kind of gathering
together and maybe having hard conversations that might stir up
some friction? But we know that friction often
polishes the stone, so that's right.
Is there there benefits to the family that even though they
(40:56):
might have to go through the hard conversations, that they
come out of it stronger? I think that's generally true.
I'm sure it's not always true. It's not always true, it's not
always true. So this is just one part of
life. This is just one piece of it.
So you can't say that having a plan is going to be the, the,
the panacea to family harmony. That's not how it works.
(41:20):
But I'll share another story because I do think your
listeners will appreciate the familiarity of some of these
stories in their own lives. Another, another woman I was
working with said that had said to me in my, our private meeting
first that in the event that shecouldn't stay at home and her
intention was to move in with one of her sons because he had a
really big house and, and the room for her.
(41:42):
And that would be where she would go.
Because we, we go granular on, on this planning idea.
And when we had our family meeting and she has four
children and they were all on the video call and I relayed her
intentions. If she was unable to aid in
place that she would move into this big House of herself.
Oh, he lost his mind. He lost his mind and he said,
(42:02):
Mom, I renovated my house three years ago.
If you had planned to move into my what's now a small living
room, if you had planned to movein there, why didn't you tell
me? I would have built a bathroom.
I would have built a closet. I am tapped out.
I am not renovating another inchof this house and you are not
moving in here. And you got a little sense of
(42:22):
what the family dynamics going on there?
Were we just fine? Not my place to judge.
I just listen, the siblings werenot happy that siblings response
that was net effect of that conversation.
However, it didn't take long to actually facilitate a
conversation whereby another sonstepped up and said, when my
(42:43):
daughter moves to college next year, in the event you needed to
not live at home, which we hope is not what happens.
If I renovated her room, would you be willing to move in there?
And the family not only agreed, but that the the the sibling who
had said no way, not my house agreed to help with the cost of
renovating that room because that son was really happy to
have another solution. So even though I think there was
(43:04):
a family dynamic there that I don't want to know about, I do
think that there is agreement around issues related to the
people we love. Yeah, that story didn't go the
way I thought it was going to go.
I thought, So what? Did you think was going to
happen? Pissed off at the guy that, you
know, she planned to move in with because why not?
You know what's wrong with my house and this and that kind of
stuff? It was another.
(43:25):
Part, you know, this is the, this is the beauty, honestly.
And this is true for everybody, all your listeners.
It really helps to have a third party involved in these
conversations. Some professional golden
agreement says it, but you can also rely on other resources,
friends, like I said, clergy. Having an independent in the
room for these hard conversations tends to help
(43:47):
facilitate a better outcome whenyou don't get stuck in the weeds
of family dynamics. So what do you wish more people
understood about aging and the role of family communication in
navigating it well? I think I'm going to let
everybody off the hook for a moment.
We are raised to respect our parents.
We are raised to listen to them and often not question what they
(44:10):
say. And then when we get to the
aging process to really be involved, you have no choice.
So I think my recommendation to look at this evolution of the
relationship as a bonding beforethis versus earth where you open
up communication in a way you never have before.
You learn how to support that person instead of seeing it as
an on your life. Perfect answer.
(44:32):
So I'm going to shift gears here.
I'm going to ask you the question that we ask of all of
our guests. What are you doing personally to
age well? I am valuing my connections
first and foremost. I have my connection with my
children, my friends, my community, and as evidenced by
the fact that I'm sitting here talking to you, I am living my
dream. I am chasing dreams.
(44:53):
I'm not afraid to dream. I have a dream.
I have more than a dream, a lifelong experience to know that
other people can benefit information, their lives can be
improved and thousands of hours of turmoil and can be replaced.
A solid plan and it puts life, it creates quality of life for
others as well. So for me, that's what aging
well is, is continuing to live my dream.
(45:14):
That's awesome. And where can our listeners
learn more about Golden Agreements and begin this work
with their own families? I have a website,
goldenagreements.com I we're on Instagram.
We're a new company, so we're not all over the airwaves yet,
but we're getting there. We also have a, a shop of
curated products on the website.Really focusing not on, well,
(45:39):
really focusing on the essentials for aging something
it's really important. For instance, pop fall
prevention. Something we talked about
earlier you had a guest on was talking about his book on fall
prevention. He listed a lot of things
everybody should be considering having in their life to help.
I made sure every single one of those are under the category of
fall prevention on the website so you can get a sense of the
(46:00):
products that can help. I also encourage family members
that fall prevention is a group activity.
Typically, it's not till it's too late that we realize we
could have a handle, a grip, a grip in the shower could have
prevented a fall. Thinking of those things early,
nobody wants to. Everyone wants to feel
independent like they were still18 years old.
But we're not. So helping, helping our loved
(46:23):
ones see can help maintain theirindependence, keep them safe in
their home. There's at least a good list.
There's AI. Think an article or two, room by
room of things that you can haveto improve safety, improve
quality of life and convenience.So I recommend people go to the
shop to get ideas, see what theyneed to improve the safety of
(46:46):
the home. And my contact information is
there S goodman@goldenagreements.com.
I'm here as a resource to help families put together their
plans to help them think throughwhat needs to be.
Oh, I also have another service that I want to just mention
because I think that it's through through the golden
agreements process, I get to know families quite intimate in
(47:07):
terms of their values and and what's made them get to where
they are and and some of the wishes of the golden clown.
So I do offer another service called the Legacy Vault, which
is just a 2 hour video where I take information from the family
and we do a video recording essentially of the values that
made of the stories that made the values that are the person
(47:29):
today. And it's not a high quality.
You can you can go out and get really professionally done
videos that, but this is what I would call from the heart
videos, the things that people want to share and leave for
their children, their grandchildren, their great
grandchildren and beyond, how they aged well, telling their
story. It's awesome.
And is there anything we missed talking about that you want to
(47:51):
share with the audience? Let's take a look here.
I guess what I'm going to leave your listeners with this.
Believing that we're never goingto die and that we can just keep
pushing for longevity can reallyinterfere with living our best
life. So make sure the people you love
are around you. Make sure you have those
connections that make life worth.
And keep aging well. And keep aging well.
(48:11):
Thank you for listening. I hope you benefited from
today's podcast and until next time, keep aging well.
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