February 13, 2025 • 55 mins
In this episode ofThe Aging Well Podcast, Dr. Jeff Armstrong is joined by Becky Blue, the author ofTurning the Magic and Mystery of More Days. Becky shares her fresh and inspiring perspective on aging, challenging the stereotypes of a youth-obsessed culture. Discover how to embrace life's third act with grace, joy, and purpose. Becky discusses the profound power of relationships, the harm of anti-aging narratives, and her personal journey from nursing to authorship. Tune in for insights on celebrating aging, fostering intergenerational connections, and finding fulfillment at every stage of life.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:04):
Welcome to the Aging World Podcast where we uncover the
wisdom, resilience, and possibilities that come with
growing older. Today.
We are thrilled to be joined by Becky Blue.
Becky is the author of Turning the Magic and Mystery of More
Days. Becky brings a fresh and
inspiring perspective on aging, challenging the stereotypes of a
youth obsessed culture and encouraging us to embrace life's
(00:26):
third act with grace, joy, and purpose.
Becky will share insights on redefining aging, the profound
power of relationships, and inspiring stories of individuals
who have discovered new passionsand fulfillment later in life.
Her work offers a vibrant and hopeful road map for anyone
looking to age well and thrive in the years ahead.
(00:47):
Becky, welcome to the Aging Wellpodcast.
I'd like you to start by just telling us a little bit about
yourself and what inspired you to write your book Turning the
Magic and Mystery of More Days. Well, thanks, Jeff.
It's great to be here and thanksfor all the Super content.
I've really had fun listening toyour podcast.
I've been learning a lot. Yeah.
(01:08):
I feel like my story fits in with you.
I am a retired nurse, and all through my nursing career I
really love looking at people, body, mind and spirit.
I feel like we're very whole beings.
And so then when and a lot of mymore recent career had to do
with state community nursing andgrant writing.
And so I fell back into this love of writing.
(01:29):
So I decided to start writing A blog.
And then I was coming up on my 60th birthday and all my friends
were freaking out and I thought,hey, I got this.
I am actually trained as a geriatric clinical nurse
specialist. I should know, I've got a
library full of books about aging.
I should be able to conquer thisor be able to at least face it.
(01:52):
And so it happened to be during the pandemic right at the
beginning. And so I had a lot of time to
write. So we all had a lot of time.
And so I just started writing. And it was such a blessing to be
able to write and then find a publisher and then decide that
I'm going to put it out there and see if I can help some other
people. And so it's just been a great
(02:13):
journey, so. And so you critique the quote UN
quote anti aging culture that's promoted by the beauty and
fitness industries. What harm do you see in this
narrative? Well, I think if you are a
person like me who looks at people body minded spirit, there
is a real heavy effort on preventing aging in our body,
(02:39):
right? And that's putting that mind and
spirit to the side where to me, that's where really the richness
comes with aging. And now I'm 65 and so the last
five years I feel like I've lived into my book or used it as
a field guide. And yeah, I mean, we all want to
look good, right? But I'm finding and focusing
(02:59):
more on my mind and my spirit and it really impacts how I
feel. It impacts the relationships
with other people. So if you are just focusing on
beauty and what you can buy fromthe Madison Ave. advertisers,
you're missing like 2/3 of it all.
Yeah, we started this podcast astwo exercise physiologist and
(03:21):
trying to focus a little bit more on kind of the health side
of it all. I mean, still being preventative
and still looking at the healthyside of it.
Not the appearance, not how can you get 6 pack abs and still be
60 and all that kind of BS. But as we've gone on with this
podcast, it is taking on much more of key themes like
(03:42):
gratitude. And we spell gratitude with two
TS. We have what my friend Jay has
labeled as spies because I always talk about spiritual,
physical, intellectual, emotional and and social
well-being. And he's like, did you
intentionally order it in that way?
Because you know what spells outspies and I never picked up on
that, but I order it in that waybecause I do think the spiritual
(04:05):
and the physical really dovetailtogether.
The spiritual has to lead the physical.
And I think when we get on that physical, and I think that's
what you're talking about, that kind of anti aging mentality
where we think it's all about the physical and we're looking
at our bodies and how they're starting to change and how
(04:26):
they're getting wrinkled and there might be a little bit more
body fat on there. And all the other stuff that
comes with the perception of aging, and that tends to be the
focus. And we want to counter that.
And so that's why I'm excited tohave you here to talk about your
book and just your evolution into understanding a little bit
(04:47):
more about the aging process. So how can we start celebrating
aging as a natural and empowering part of life instead
of resisting it? Well, I think step one is
hopefully being able to find some good role models of aging
and maybe you and I could be a couple of those.
I think we are right, but I think the big thing is even just
(05:10):
being willing to talk about it. So, and I do think even in the
last, since I turned 60, I feel like aging has been a little
more on the forefront. I mean, we see it in our
political arena, we see it in entertainment, people who are
still stepping up even in their older years.
And but I think it's important for each person to find some
(05:32):
good role models of aging and then to just talk about it, talk
about it at the coffee shop withyour friends.
It's going to be a taboo topic. Do you find yourself celebrating
your age more now that you've taken on this perspective?
Oh. I love that question.
Well, I will tell you, I've always been a real birthday
(05:52):
person. I absolutely love birthdays and
I'm all about throne parties andall that.
But yeah, I would say I definitely celebrate it more
now. And the subtitle to my book, The
Magic and Mystery of More Days. I think it reminds me that you
can, every age can have some magic and definitely every age
(06:12):
has mystery. And so it's interesting to find
when I light another birthday candle, OK, how have I changed
or what am I braver about? I think I'm braver.
What am I more curious about? Curious is one of my favorite
words. And I think that could be there
for anybody, no matter what you're dealing with in body,
mind and spirit. So I find myself as a college
(06:36):
professor teaching exercise Physiology, that I tend to get
more proud of my age when I'm talking to my students.
It's like, yeah, this is all I did aging.
And when we go through like the normative data on things like
BO2 Max and strength and all those kind of things, I point
out to them, it's like, this is ridiculous that they tell me
(06:57):
that when I'm 22, if I can benchmy weight, I'm in average
fitness. But now that I'm 60, I'm 61.
Now in my 60s, being able to bench my body weight, it makes
me like superhuman. It's like, that should not be
the case. Oh.
Yeah, talk about low expectations.
Right. It's like because everybody else
declines so rapidly, our expectations are that we should
(07:20):
decline rapidly rather than defying the aging process.
Yes. And I hope we're getting some
fresh research around some of those parameters.
One of the things, and and I know you're into exercise, so I
was hoping we could talk a little bit about I'm obsessed by
and as a geriatric nurse, I tookcare of way too many people
(07:41):
fell, broke their hips, whatever, had a huge change of
lifestyle because of it. I'll be darned if I'm not going
to hurt myself. I mean, I might fall once or
twice, but I am going to have great balance so I can prevent
that. So about 18 months ago I started
taking ballet and and also in myPilates that I have weekly, my
(08:02):
instructor's been observing how much longer I can do my single
leg stand and she's been workingwith me for 15 years.
And so I'm having a better one leg now at 65 than I did at 50.
Yeah. And we have one of my early
guests was this guy Carmine Arpea, who I was introduced to
(08:26):
through an old friend of mine from Long Island, New York.
And he was a, he was the fitnessdirector for Pecanic Landing,
which is a continuous care retirement community on Long
Island. And he just recently retired
from that. But in his work, they always
used to refer to this equation that they used for balance as
(08:48):
Carmine's law. And I officially published it in
my pathophysiology and exercise textbook.
So it's now an official law, at least from Myra guide.
So we call it Carmine's law, butit states that strength plus
posture equals balance. And I really like that because
those are the two really key components.
A lot of times we train for balance by just having you, OK,
(09:11):
I'm going to have you stand on one leg as long as you can.
And OK, you get good at maybe standing at that particular
stance. But does that translate into you
being able to prevent a fall as you're walking along and you
step on a crack or something on the curb where you come to an
uneven surface and you have to adjust quickly?
And we know that balance is our ability to maintain our center
(09:34):
of mass within our base of support.
And so posture always brings that into a more centered
position. The more upright we can walk and
stand better our balance is going to be.
And I suspect that your balance is a lot better because you've
been doing the Pilates and the other activities that are
improving on you, both your strength and your posture.
(09:56):
And that translates into a little bit more balance.
Yes, I'm passionate about posture and actually I'm
excited. A research study in my book
where there was people observe older adults and ultimately they
said that those who had better posture were perceived to be 15
years younger than they really were.
(10:17):
So if that isn't something to grab, those people are thinking
more about the body piece of it.Just stand up straight like your
mom used to tell you to do. So I'm there with you, but I
hadn't heard about that. For me, I love that strength,
push posture equals balance. Yep.
Oh, that's so good. OK, so.
It's Carmine's law, according toDoctor Jeff Armstrong.
(10:41):
Perfect, I'll remember it. Yeah, I really, I like it and I
really stress it to my students because it's, if you want to be
able to move better, you know you're not going to do it.
As you continue to slip into this kyphonic build, we get
weaker. And I really encourage and I've
had a shift in my own perspective of exercise since I
(11:03):
really got into exercise Physiology because when I
started studying it, they, I mean, I guess I started studying
it really in the 70s when I was in high school and learning
resistance training and all thatkind of stuff.
But as I got into the field of exercise Physiology in the mid
80s, it was cardiovascular is low, high carbs, low fat and a
(11:23):
lot of cardio, heart health. And I think we neglected the
strength training. And it was a number of years ago
was at the American College of Sports Medicine conference when
they were honoring a bunch of the senior fellows in the
organization. And I watched some of these guys
walking on and they're only in their probably mid 80s, but they
were all like shuffling. They're very kyphotic and
(11:45):
slumped over, very frail looking.
It's like, that isn't how I wantto look when I'm in my 80s,
Right? Right.
And I realize it's like the reason they're like that is
because they focus on cardio. And you do cardio without the
strength training, you tend to overall lose muscle mass over
time. And as you lose muscle mass,
you're going to lose functionality and it just
(12:07):
becomes this vicious cycle whereyou just get frailer and
frailer. You might have a great heart,
you might not die of a heart attack, but you may end up dying
of a fall or something like thatbecause you don't have the
strength, the balance, the agility, and those types of
things to be able to move more effectively.
And so I emphasize so much more the strength because cardio is
easy to maintain. If you just keep moving and it's
(12:29):
strong, you can keep moving. And so that's been a pretty
strong emphasis in kind of my feeling, and I'm talking too
much. This is an interview of you.
No, that's OK. And I'm really curious about
because I actually want to ask you a question because one of
the things I feel like I've gotten through Pilates is that
I'm not just working those largemuscle groups.
I'm working in those small ones.And I know I'm doing so much of
(12:51):
that in ballet where if you wereto walk into my ballet clots,
you probably think, well, this doesn't look very hard, but it
actually is. We are isolating.
We're doing those turnouts, we're doing those position and
we're really having to use thosesmaller muscles.
And I feel like that is something that we need to really
be reminding people about in that strength discussion.
(13:14):
So I'm curious how you bring that in.
I emphasize at the start of any kind of strengthening program
the importance of the hips and the rotator cuff muscles because
those are the what tie our limbsto our trunk.
And if those are weak, we're going to have all kind of health
issues and injuries and things like that, particularly in the
(13:34):
hips. When we talk about, you know,
people tearing their Acls, it's because they have weak hips.
It's not because they have weak knees and ballet.
I mean, I challenge you to show me any senior ballerina who does
not still have great posture. Absolutely.
Because they're emphasizing those small muscles to contract,
(13:56):
to stay upright, to balance themselves, to maintain those
positions. And so, yeah, they, and anymore
you look at a lot of ballerinas,they're much more muscular than
they used to be. And I think some of it is
there's a little less of that emphasis on that frail, thin,
wafy looking build in, in ballerinas that they're and
(14:18):
they're doing more in the in thedance movements that require
more strength. And so they do have a little bit
more muscular Turk to them. I mean, they don't look like
sprinters or anything, but, you know, they're a bit more
muscular. But I think a lot of it is
because they're working those small muscles that control the
body. And we do neglect those.
We go to the gym. It's like, I want big biceps.
(14:40):
I want big. Yeah.
Exactly. And I tell my athletes that I
work with it's like, why you waste your time?
Why is the first exercise you doin the gym is the bench press
and the bicep curl when those are the least necessary muscles
in your body? So.
Good, let's get the hit and the big, the big muscles that also
have the small controlling muscles.
(15:01):
I mean I love functionally the squat is the best exercise and I
have shifted over. To me, if I could only do one
exercise, it would be a zerture squat, and that's where you hold
the bar in the crux of the arm. And it requires a lot more core.
It requires that you have to track those hip muscles to get
your legs out of the way so thatyou can squat deep enough.
(15:21):
Really works the ABS, works the upper back, works the trapezius.
I mean, it's a great postural exercise.
I, I love it. And it's a hard exercise too,
because it's not comfortable holding the weight in that
position. But.
For me it's it's an easier position and I I just enjoy it
so I push it a lot more. I'm going on my Zurcher soapbox
(15:44):
and. Yeah, that's awesome standpoint.
I mean, this is such rich information.
And I the other thing I'm just going to give you a little tip
and you've maybe used this. I think as I as an adult
learner, I need a lot of word pictures from my coach.
And so the my Pilates instructoralways says pretend you're
putting your scapula muscles or whatever you call them into two
(16:07):
big deep pockets. And so I'm even doing that here
while I said. So maybe your listeners might
appreciate that. So if you could just, I used to
go to palauge jokes source like this or like this mostly.
Like, yeah, so she's like, OK, just relax the neck, but put
those shoulder blades into two big pockets.
And that just helps my posture so much.
(16:29):
Yeah, it's good an instruction because a lot of times people,
they think posture, they just pull their shoulder blades back
and attract them, but that's notreally still good posture.
You want to have that kind of relaxed and it also helps you to
elevate the vertebral column andjust lengthen everything out and
keep that height and just keep anice positioning.
That's a great cue. I have to remember that one.
(16:51):
See, I learned things on this podcast, and I think that's the
main reason that I do the podcast is part of it is we want
to instruct people, but I think I learned more in the process of
trying to instruct. So thank you for that.
Absolutely. So back to your book and in your
area and and asking you the questions, you emphasize the
(17:12):
importance of supportive partnerships and loving
relationships and aging. Well, yeah.
Why are these so vital? Well, I, what I find is, and you
read this and you've read peopletalking on your podcast about, I
mean, the most pervasive chronicillness in America is loneliness
and it impacts US body, mind andspirit.
(17:33):
So when I was a geriatric nurse and I was part of an
interdisciplinary team and we would evaluate like somebody
would bring their mom and tryingto decide, can mom still live at
home? That kind of question.
And one of my favorite questionsto ask was how many people can
you call if you need help or assistance?
And a lot of people were able tosay, oh, I've got three or four
(17:56):
people I can call. And sometimes there's only one.
I think one time I had somebody say zero.
I mean, how heartbreaking is that?
That hurts, right? And so we need to foster those
relationships. Another thing I always like to
say is it's OK to get new friends as you're older.
And that's what I find when thisnext chapter of life, when you
get curious about different things, you might end up kind of
(18:18):
finding new friends. And that's OK.
Doesn't mean you have to leave the old ones, but to develop new
relationships is great. The other thing I always
recommend to people, especially like this time of year, is to
take an inventory of your friendships and their ages.
And I always tell people, you should have a friend from each
decade of life. So would you have a friend who's
(18:41):
in their teens, You have a friend in their 20s, one in
their 30s, one in their 40s. And not just that you can check
the box, but that you really aresomeone that you would call or
text or sit down and have coffeewith.
So relationships are so key. And I think one of the chapters
in my book, which I feel is justat the crux of making sure that
(19:01):
those relationships are authentic and rich is to lean
into forgiveness. And so I can't stress that
enough for people. That's especially sometimes at
this age. We carried some of those past
hurts and burdens with us for solong.
And at some point, if you can let go and forgive another
(19:22):
person, that makes the relationship just so much more
valuable and meaningful and fullof love.
Yeah, it's interesting. Through the podcast, I've
evolved my pillars of aging. Well, when I probably when I
first started, it would had fourpillars.
Something that I always taught in my pathophysiology and
exercise class was it if you want to have good longevity and
(19:45):
be disease free as your age, it's exercise and physical
activity, maintain healthy body composition, eat a healthy diet
and don't smoke. And then we've added, you know,
sleep hygiene in there as well. But one that just keeps coming
up repeatedly is social connectedness.
And not only that, we've added in front of that purposeful
(20:08):
social connections because a lotof people have social
connections. And I think I got a lot of
friends, you know, I go out, go and meet my buddies at the bar
on Thursday nights and we hang out and drink beer and watch
sports or something. That's not necessarily.
And are those really the people that when you do need somebody,
when you have to call somebody, they're going to be the ones
(20:29):
that are coming to your, to yoursupport.
And so it's those people that are relationships that are going
to be mutually beneficial. I think it's probably poor.
Way of saying it, but no, I think that's true and and
another besides forgiveness. The one thing I like to remind
(20:50):
people that I write about is thedifferent difference.
Rather than being in conversation, be in dialogue.
That there is a difference between conversation and
dialogue. And I would say what we're
having here is a great dialogue.So you're really listening to
that other person and you're playing off of what they're
saying. You don't come in with a
preconceived agenda about. I always laugh about sometimes
(21:11):
older people would like to go through our organ recital like,
oh, my back hurts today. I got a headache.
I can't hear. Avoid the organ recital.
And just yesterday, I got to be on a podcast and the woman asked
me in it a great question. It was very simple.
We could all take it with us. And it was just what's next for
you? What a great question.
(21:33):
What's next for you? And so to just be more in
dialogue and I guess probably the basis of that, which we've
all heard so many times, to justbe a good listener, get people
the gift of listening. I I think that, and it's
something we often miss in a lotof conversations.
I've had conversations with people where it's like, you
really don't want to hear from me, you just want to talk.
(21:54):
Yeah. And so, yeah.
And I think we could do that a lot better.
Even when we try and listen, arewe really listening?
Are we really hearing? Are we looking for the
undertones, the words between the words and looking at the
body language and all those types of things that we probably
don't do well enough? Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah, because I know there's a lot of like I've had
(22:16):
international friends that really don't like how Americans
will greet one another by sayinghow you how's it going?
We don't expect an answer when we say how's it going?
And I think we need to get to a point where when we ask
somebody, how you doing? We're waiting for a response.
How would it affect people if weactually said to them, no, I
(22:38):
mean it, how are you doing and really push them to to tell us
how are they doing? Absolutely.
And that all kind of fits in. I mean, we haven't talked a lot
about why I called the book turning.
I mean, the obvious thing is because I was turning 60, that's
why I called it turning. I love that you said you love
posture, because I do too. And the overall overarching
(22:59):
reason I choose chose turning isbecause rather than turning into
ourselves when we age and becoming our own project self
improvement project, whatever focused on our own organ
recital, the idea should be thatwe turn out, we look out to the
world we look up to at higher power and really listen to what
(23:19):
does the world need for me rightnow.
That's a fascinating statement. I love that.
And so I, I just started anotherpodcast, which is we have a
spiritual problem that's evolvedoff of this one because I have
these kind of conversations withpeople.
And as I've been doing the firstfew interviews, I find myself in
(23:39):
these long pauses because it's like, OK, where do I go from
here? I have a list of relative
questions that I ask, but it's like, wow, I just need to take a
breath and absorb that response.And so it becomes as long
response. Whereas it's fine when you're
just having a conversation with people, but when you're
producing a podcast where peoplemay sit there listening, it's
(24:01):
like, OK, is it over? Did it stop?
What's going? On exactly don't dead silence,
that's bad. Yeah.
So what advice do you have for people who are feeling isolated
and disconnected as they age? Well, I guess the first thing
would be to try to look out. Turn your head, turn your eyes,
be curious, pick up the phone, reconnect with people, talk to.
(24:28):
I mean, I guess I'm just too extroverted.
I love talking to strangers and super too, too long we've been
told don't talk to strangers, But if you're running your cart
in the grocery store, start a conversation with someone and
then a night get it takes some bravery and courage, but it
takes some bravery and courage to get old.
(24:49):
My dad always said aging is not for sissies.
And so into you're really in charge of your own place in this
earth where your feet are. And so she can put them where
somebody else is, even if they're sitting next to you on
the subway or on a bus or whatever.
I might. The name of my company is made
with words and I just feel like words.
(25:12):
Obviously words are so powerful but we dismiss them and just
like your great example, we asked how they are but we don't
really listen up. I know how they are, so I would
just encourage people to be curious and to be in
conversation or dialogue. I.
Appreciate those people who do reach out to you and ask you the
(25:33):
questions and try and engage in conversation.
Because I am a bit more of an introvert.
I, I'm not the person that's going to go around.
My dad was the complete opposite.
I mean, he'd walk into a room and he met so many different
celebrities and things like thatbecause he, the way he would
walk in a room and then engage with people, they just thought
they were supposed to know him. And so they were just like, OK,
(25:57):
I, I must know him. Just engaged in the way that
they think they know him. And he just had great
conversations with people that just like, how do you get to
meet these people? So I'm not as good with that.
And so I really appreciate it ifsomebody reaches out to me and
asks the questions. And I'm more willing to talk
(26:17):
once I get the engagement going,but I'm not the initiator very
well. So how can older adults overcome
a fear of starting new somethingnew in their life?
Yeah, fear. I think I've got a chapter, a
book about fear versus trust. And I think those are things
that sort of a dichotomy, right,that we all sort of deal with.
(26:39):
And for me being now this gets alittle bit spiritual, so forgive
me, I guess, but for for me, it's like, OK, I'm good.
God's got me. If I fail, it's something it's
OK. I just want to hurt myself.
I don't want to break a hip, butI think just sort of to look
again for those role models. And if I tell them that, yeah,
(27:04):
18 months ago I decided to startballet, well, that was a brave
act. And so just be a little bit
brave. Do something new, go eat
somewhere new, go take a different route to the grocery
store, whatever. I mean, baby steps.
And then maybe all of a sudden you'll be like, I'm going to
plan a trip. I gave a 10X talk about you're
never too young to choose how toage and it talked a lot about
(27:27):
how we can, the goal being that we can not have this steady
decline in our life, but really just maybe we even improve and
as as we get older. Anyway, there was a woman in the
audience who was I think 60 and she shared with me later she
goes, you have to hear you speak.
I went home and I booked 4 trips.
(27:48):
So I think you just and she was just so energized.
So I, I, I think just whether it's a small step or a big step,
it will start transforming you. And I think that's this beauty
of this third act. I like to call retirement the
end of repetition. I think so often in our working
(28:11):
years, we, because we have to, we stay in this routine and we
do what we have to do and all those expectations are met.
But there is this glorious open calendar, really, as we retire,
and it's up to us to decide whatwe're gonna fill it with.
Go back to my dad and just the different things and he's had a
(28:31):
lifetime of taking just weird risks and doing things that
you're like, really, you do that.
I mean, when he was young he dida lot of stand up comedy.
I remember I was used to tell a story about being on the same
card with Flip Wilson before Flip Wilson came out with the
Geraldine, which some of our listeners might know who
(28:53):
Geraldine is, some might not. But he got to see Geraldine
before anybody else did. And he did that kind of stuff
for a while and then he got backinto it.
After he, his wife had retired, he was still working as
consulting business in Pittsburgh, and she took a job
heading up the YWCA in New York.And so they had to move from
(29:14):
Pittsburgh to New York. So he had to give up his
business. So it forced him into
retirement. And so he needed some stuff to
do. She's like, why?
Why don't you try some acting? And so he got an agent and he
was getting a lot of extra work and he was really on that cusp
of probably getting some speaking roles had they stayed
in New York a little bit longer.But I mean, he was on Law and
(29:36):
Order, Criminal Intent, like every episode.
He was like a regular extra on this show.
It was on, we watch Elf every. It's we're recording this, it's
Christmas season and yeah, he's in Elf and we watch it.
Every. Year just to see him in that
Central Park. OK, you got to tell me what
scene he's in. Central Park.
OK, yeah, it's at Central Park scene when they're singing the
(29:58):
the. At the end.
Song. Yeah.
I forget what song they're singing, but he's in the back.
He's back, probably in the back row in probably about like the
right quarter of the screen. Yeah, you have to sing loud
corral to hear. Yeah, that's right.
Yeah, you could. You'll probably be able to
figure out who he is because we,it's my remember joke.
(30:19):
We use the same line with the same facial disfigurements.
So he looks look a lot alike, except he has.
I should have put that in quotation mark.
My dad wore a hairpiece at that time.
So but yeah, you'll, you might just see him in there and he's
in Wedding Crashers. There's one scene where he's
like, depending on which kind ofvery variation of, I didn't
(30:41):
realize they have different variations of movies that yeah,
they're edited differently for different purposes.
And so there's a scene in the big wedding reception that he's
either the only one on camera orit's him and this other woman.
They flash to them as they're there.
And yeah, he's that other. He was in It's Part of the
(31:03):
Family, which is a movie with the all three generations of the
Douglass's, Kirk, Michael and Cameron.
And he was actually invited by Kirk Douglas to be at the table
at the wake. Now you only see the back
quarter of his head, but that's him on camera.
And he was invited there by KirkDouglas.
(31:24):
He was so selected by all the people there as extras to to be
at that table. And then there's another scene
where you can see him back in the distance behind the
conversation. But it's funny.
Yeah, he's done that stuff. I mean, he tried out for the
Steelers back in the 60s, and henever played football in high
school or college. And yet he got, he made it the
training camp. And it's like, and there were so
(31:46):
many times in my life like I grew up.
I'm going to go off on a tangentand be way too self revealing
here, but. That's OK, nurse.
People always do that with me. It's OK.
My parents divorced when I was like freshman in high school and
it was a struggle with me and mymom and I didn't learn it until
much later. That part of the struggle was
because I reminded her so much of my dad, just physically,
(32:10):
personality wise and all these types of things.
I didn't realize how hard it wasfor her.
I always just and it caused a bit of a rift for a while.
But you know, like I said, like you said, forgiveness is
important, especially as we get in our older years.
And so we were able to mend those bridges.
But she used to always say you're just like your father.
And I always took it as a negative.
(32:32):
And when my dad, he would do these things but not quite get
to that level of success. I would, I would take it
personally on myself it I was never going to really perfectly
succeed. And it it took me years and
years to realize like my wife and I did a workshop was when we
were engaged to get married. And one of the questions they
(32:55):
asked was negative talk that youreceived growing up.
And I was like, I never got negative talk.
In fact, my parents were always overly supportive and I felt
like, oh, come on, you know, I can't do this that well, I'm not
that good. But the only negative talk I
could come up with was that statement of you're just like
your father. And then I realized it really
wasn't negative talk. And it was a huge hurdle for me
(33:17):
to get over that and realize that that was more of a
hindrance. And that this idea of failing
because you're trying things is a very important part of life
and aging well. And don't be afraid to do things
that might cause you to not succeed, because the success is
in the fact that you actually did it.
That's right. And Dad, he probably would have
(33:40):
loved your dad is my dad always said can't never done nothing,
which is really poor grammar. And my mom was an English
teacher, which makes me laugh, but never done nothing.
I'm at Johnson, which they're one of us, but he's just this
Norwegian farmer, just plain spoken.
And so I take that with me. And so maybe that's why I'm
(34:04):
trying all these things. But I did want to mention that
one of my main goals really in my work right now is I want to
change the culture of aging, which I guess you would probably
agree with that as well. But when you look at kind of
change theory or culture, changing culture, the ways to do
that are to tell stories. And I love that you shared that
(34:24):
story. Thank you so much.
But if we all tell our stories of age day, like you just share
the stories of your dad, That's how we little by little change
the culture. And I've been meeting with book
clubs recently and and I was listening to this.
I think I threw this question out like what have you done
lately that kind of surprised you or some somewhat unusual.
(34:48):
And a lady raised her hand and she goes, well, there's a group
of us that get together every Wednesday and the promise is
that we can't ever do the same thing and not any Wednesdays.
We have to always do something new.
And she said last Wednesday we went over to our little skeet
hill here and we all went tubingtogether.
And so this group of 60 plus women were tubing in the middle
(35:12):
of the afternoon. I thought that's fantastic.
I said, who did you tell about that?
And she just was quiet. I said, so that's an example of
if you would tell that story, ifyou put the pictures on
Facebook, Instagram, whatever, make sure you tell your
grandchildren whoever you want and to little by little, we
change the culture of aging by sharing those stories.
Yeah, that's fascinating. Back to your can't never done
(35:35):
nothing. The reason I struggled with that
is when I lived in New York pastor to church, I was going to
he was raised in Oklahoma. He was the old farm boy and his
dad always taught us his dad raised him can't never done
nothing. You know the same grammar, yes,
I said. Wow, I've not heard anybody else
(35:55):
tell that. And I've.
I've never heard anybody else say that either.
I might have to get on that all the.
Time, I mean, I tell my kids that and my daughter pushes me,
pushes back on it all the time, said she's trying to find that
one thing or give an example where can't did something and
can't, cannot do anything. That's the whole point.
And so I I think that is a greataging well statement is can't
(36:18):
never done nothing so. Yeah, the other thing you always
said, which I always cringe if my teenagers heard it, is he
would always say, yeah, you could, let's do something even
if it's wrong. Yeah, I don't know if I'd want
to tell my kids that. No, I don't think so.
Well, mom, you told me it was OK.
Yeah, kids were going out drinking.
I know it was wrong, but you know you told me to do it.
(36:42):
Exactly. No, I think it was usually in
the context of when this sort ofdecision paralysis, when we
couldn't decide what to do with that, like where to go on
vacation or where to go eat or whatever supper.
He would just say let's do something, even if it's wrong.
That's a couple, too. It's like, I think we all get in
that Stew of decision paralysis and just do something.
Yeah. Just move, right?
(37:03):
Just move. Yeah.
And I think that goes along withthe whole idea of not being
afraid to fail. We had Jim Harshaw, his podcast
used to be Success Through Failure.
And I always loved that kind of theme where you're succeeding if
you're failing because you're moving forward and you're always
(37:24):
going beyond the bounds of what you are currently capable of
doing. And the more you push those
boundaries, the more you're going to grow.
I mean, you cannot grow without challenging and without failing.
And from a physiological standpoint, that Physiology
feeds into my spiritual views and my intellectual, emotional
and all that they you, you cannot be growing if you are not
(37:48):
failing on occasion and. I think that's.
Important as wage. Yeah, absolutely.
And I talk about forgiveness anda lot of times the forgiveness
has to come back to you. You have to forgive yourself,
you know, And so maybe you did make some bad choices along the
way or whatever, but, you know, let those go.
That's a frozen thing. Let go.
(38:10):
I don't believe there are bad choices, you know, and you get a
little bit more of a spiritual dimension with that.
But it's like there might be wrong decisions to the extent,
but the decisions that we make, good or bad, are always pointing
us to where we are right now. So we can't look back at least
and say I would do this differently because if we did it
(38:32):
differently, even though it might have been the right thing
to do at that point, despite society standards, we may not be
the same person we are right nowand somebody else may not be the
same person that they are. So you can't look back and say I
made a mistake here. This was the decision I made, I
accept it. And what do I do now from where
(38:52):
that has delivered me? I really appreciate when you
said other people's lives might be different.
And my husband and I'm married to an entrepreneur, physician
turned entrepreneurs. We're always trying to make
different small businesses and some of them have worked and
some of them haven't. But I always say, think about
all the our employees who ended up moving to Nashville or
(39:13):
wherever we were doing this and they ended up meeting their
spouse. They ended up you really impact
people's lives. Maybe it impacted ours a little
more negatively, but I, I think you're right there.
I'd like that that there really aren't any bad choices.
The other thing I love to do at this age, and it's a gift that
you really can only do maybe at the say I always, I love that
(39:34):
game of connect the dots. I always love doing those when I
was a little, but now when you're my age, you connect the
dots near whole life. And I look back and I see that
the decisions I made professionally have led me to
this point, have led me to be a writer, have led me to write
this book. And I'm so thankful even though
at the time I never made one. Some of those dots that just
(39:55):
felt sort of not that much fun, but it's really glorious to look
back and see where God is connected them all for you.
In this youth obsessed culture, how do we amplify the voices and
contributions of the older generation?
That's really good. I think it's telling stories.
(40:17):
I know about intergenerational activities and like I said,
having friends from every decade.
One of the steps I really like, it's called generativity.
And it's the idea of sort of twoways that kind of looking at
what I'm, how am I leaving the world a better place?
(40:38):
But then it's also asking yourself, what have I learned
from my children or from the young people in my life?
And so I think we need to it, itgoes back to dialogue.
Just when you sit around the table with your kids had some
serious conversation or you're meeting friends in a wherever,
(40:59):
whatever activity you're at, just tell me what's important to
you right now. And then maybe hopefully they
would ask you the same question.And so that I think it's
dialogue, just I'm hopeful. I feel like this next round of
people who are coming up and I get mixed up, if we're calling
them millennials or whatever, who is next, I feel like they're
(41:22):
not quite so valuing of their privacy.
They're willing to share, obviously because of social
media. And so I think we will, I think
the page will turn on that will just be much more open.
And that's my hope, anyway. I hope so.
And I hope that with that generation, there's also a care
(41:44):
and a willingness to listen to others because I think a lot of
things that happen with social media is that it's people
presenting themselves, but they're not always as open to
receiving, being on the receiving end of social media.
Right. That they.
Yeah. And I found that for myself
with, like, Facebook, you know, as our generation took Facebook
(42:05):
away from the younger generation.
Yeah. Right now you'll never find
anybody like under 30 on Facebook, right?
True, I found myself often timesinventing and just different
frustrations or whatever and I realized I'm just bringing a
negative presence to this platform and I started shifting
my mindset to trying to draw other people in.
(42:29):
Just like one common thing I'll do periodically is just type out
the statement. I'm praying for someone special.
And sometimes that's influenced by somebody who has shared that
they have got something going onand you don't want to just put
on their, hey, yeah, I'm prayingfor Joe Shmoe.
He, you know, has cancer or something like that.
But I found that people who are struggling with something, they
(42:52):
read that and they feel like, OK, he's here for me.
Whether I even know that they have an issue or not.
I feel like that helps. And just trying to be positive,
bringing a positive message to it.
And a lot of times when I'm struggling, when I'm the most
positive on social media or in my blog and those types of
things, it's probably a reflection of what that I'm
(43:13):
struggling with something prettypretty much because I need to
just vent in a way, but I need to vent in a way that's going to
be positive and encouraging to myself and to others.
And it really helps. I need to probably do it more.
And I could generally tell when I'm not in the best spaces, like
(43:33):
gauging what kind of comments I'm putting on social media.
Right, And as much as we hear negative about social media and
it be just an amazing tool or back to your original question
about how to prevent isolation or or loneliness in older adults
and or maybe now even with AI, what what can we do to keep
(43:53):
people engaged and relevant in the world and really again
turning outside themselves? I think that's the key.
And so I as much as you can tellyour story without being tell
your own story, but you're concerned about how is everybody
(44:14):
else hearing it? Yeah.
And I love that with social media as an aging adult and
somebody has moved around quite a bit, I like to keep contact
with people and phone numbers change, addresses change, and
it's hard to keep up with people.
And so with that, there's always, if somebody comes to
(44:34):
mind, I can search and if I can't find them specifically or
haven't been in contact with them, I could reach out to
somebody else. Hey, have you talked to so and
so in a while? And so those connections remain
a little bit more solid as we age, whereas I went through a
period of time with when moving,you know, my address changes, my
(44:56):
phone number changes, people move and you've lost contact
with them. And it's been like 20 years
since you you've talked to them and you have no idea how to get
a hold of them. Now with social media, it's like
better white pages. Yeah, absolutely.
The other thing I think is I don't know if you do much on
Facebook Marketplace. This is really an aside, but we
(45:17):
were doing a big house remodel and so I ended up Facebook
Marketplacing so many items and I'd have people just come to my
house and pick them up. Oh my God, I met so many
different people from so many walks of life and I just
thought, I don't know, like Facebook Marketplace could be a
key to meeting new people. Just sell something.
(45:37):
Just just. Sell something.
I need a new friend. What do I got here?
I'm going to sell this. It could happen because there
was a gentleman who kept wantingthe camera equipment that I was
selling and he was actually in not in Hospice.
He was in cancer treatment in our town.
He was from a little rural area,so he was staying in a small
(45:58):
apartment. And I swear he would come out
every four days just to talk to me and buy some little new old
flash or whatever. And so I guess my point being is
there's people out there who aren't even that far away from
your doorstep. You just want to have a
relationship and they could bring richness to your life.
And so it's you just got to takethat first step.
(46:19):
The guy's probably got a whole pile of camera equipment in his
apartment that he doesn't use because he has no interest in
photography, but he just appreciated having somebody to
talk to. Yeah, it was great.
I benefited from it as well. Yeah.
That is great. So what are some simple steps
that people can take today to embrace age and find
(46:42):
fulfillment? I think we talked a little bit
about some of that, but. Yeah, again, I think it's just
turning outside ourselves being very what's going on in your
community, maybe joining some new groups, getting into
relationships with other older adults or finding or not older
(47:04):
adults even. I really love like ballet
because my friends in ballet arein their 30s forties, maybe 50s,
but so it's not about age, and maybe that's part of it.
I can't really say that I think about my age very much.
You know, the number 65 is right.
But yeah, it's just the number. When I used to teach employees
(47:27):
in the hospital about how to care for people who are aging, I
always said that older adults, like, enjoy people of every age.
They don't pick you don't pick your friends based on what age
they are. And then you may be doing,
you're in 4th grade because you're all on the playground at
the same time. But when you're my age, you find
other people who have some of the same interests, some of the
(47:48):
same curiosities and build a relationship.
So I I think that's, and then itgoes back to that idea of
generativity. If you find somebody in those
other age groups, you're going to learn something from them
that will change you and that will make you more relevant.
I think relevancy is an important thing to consider as
(48:08):
an older adult. Am I relevant in 2020?
Am I, for lack of a better word,interesting?
Am I an interesting person? Well, if you meet somebody new,
like the guy I met through Facebook Marketplace, well,
there you've got a story you cantell with your friends.
That's a fun story to tell. So collect, do some new activity
(48:29):
and just so you have some stories, stay interesting and
that will make you more interesting to other people,
especially younger people. And don't be afraid to do stupid
stuff, because those make great stories, right?
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
Tell about all your foibles thathappened.
And I do blame some of those on my age, but.
Yeah, I tell way too many of those stories when I'm lecturing
(48:50):
to my students, so. Yeah, they get a kick out of it,
I'm sure. They love that I can laugh at
myself and they laugh with me. So it's good.
Yeah. So is there one message you hope
readers take away from your book?
And what would that be? I think the message is that the
world needs you even at 708085, whatever the world needs you.
(49:16):
And so you need to just not be navel gazing, turn outside
yourself, listen and just be ready to step up.
And I think that what's amazing to me is there are so many of us
now retiring. I don't know the stats you
probably do, but it's just a crazy amount of people, right,
who are in their 65 plus each group.
(49:38):
And I always think about the what is the wisdom within that
group or the knowledge. And in a way, more recently
we've just been shoving them down to Arizona or California or
Florida, wherever they want to golf.
They can play golf or whatever. And there's nothing wrong with
that. But I think it's a society.
We're really missing an opportunity to tap into that
(50:02):
knowledge, that creativity, the resources that can happen in
this age group. And I talk a fair amount about
that in the book as well, how weas a society, we've really got
to people our age. I think there's a lot of missed
opportunities to build some of these retirement communities in
(50:24):
conjunction with elementary and middle schools and colleges,
because both of those populations can hugely benefit
from the older adults and the older adults can benefit from
them as well. And if we could build those
social connections a little bit more, it gives people better
opportunities to age well. And unfortunately we have to be
(50:45):
real intentional about it these days because so many people,
they don't live by their grandparents or I think we tend
to put people in silos. So the 20 somethings stay
together, the 30 somethings, 40 something.
But if we can intentionally planour communities or events or
whatever it might be so that there's more of a
intergenerational focus than that cross contamination, what
(51:10):
call it is going to happen. So the question that we ask of
all our guests, what are you doing personally to age well
besides the Pilates and the ballet?
Yeah, that's what I want to say.You know what, I think I'm just
trying to listen more and listento especially younger people and
(51:31):
understand what they're going through and that kind of that
concept of generativity. But if I can learn a new concept
or just the other day I actuallydiscovered AK Pop song that I
absolutely love. And I've been more of a 70s
music kind of girl. So just embracing other people's
(51:53):
chores and even beliefs and curiosities.
Again, I think it makes it brings joy to me to just find
that I've got something else in my head to think about.
My daughter is really into K pop.
I'm much more into the 70's rockmusic.
My son enjoys that a little bit more with me, but I got to enjoy
(52:15):
AK pop with her a bit more so. And she's really interested in
the Korean culture for some reason as well.
So we're planning a trip for next year.
She didn't get into a an exchange program.
And so we're like, well, it'd bea lot cheaper for me just to
take you to Korea. For I love that.
And just to make this. Take a trip out there next
(52:38):
summer. So that should be fun and help
me age well as well. Yeah, for sure.
I mean, why not? That's great.
Well. Becky, where can our listeners
and viewers find your book and how can they connect with you?
Do you have a website? Do you have social media other
than Facebook? Yeah, well, I'd love to have
(52:58):
people grab the book that Becky Blue writes is my website and
then in the book is also on Amazon and Barnes and Noble.
Becky J Blue is my handle on Instagram.
I love to do stories there and have people tag me if they've
read my book. And yeah, I guess I am on
Facebook probably too much now. The big question is do you do
(53:21):
TikTok? I have not started TikTok, do
you do? That's how you connect.
No God I I could not do TikTok I.
Don't I just feel like it's a big a big black hole or
something, right? You know, I think sometimes
somebody will send me some videos and I'm like, what is
this? No I don't do TikTok.
So, looking forward, how do you hope our cultural understanding
(53:44):
of aging will evolve? I just hope it becomes a non
issue. Let's just get the word out of
our vernacular. Yeah, because, and that kind of
goes back to that Teddick, to talk about you're never too
young to choose how to age. I mean, because obviously from
day one when you're born, you'restarting to age from a
biological standpoint. But I don't know why it's such a
(54:04):
big deal. I don't either.
I think, you know, maybe in 10 years you and I won't have
anything to talk about with thistopic and we're just going to
have to find something else we're really into like K pop or
something. I don't.
Know, there you go. We'll still be doing K pop
dances and stuff like that as we're in our 80s.
Exactly. No, I really, I'm very hopeful.
(54:25):
I think it's going to look so much different in the next
decade. Oh, that's good.
So, well, this has been a fascinating conversation.
I think we could just keep going.
I wish you all the best with thebook and with your work.
And yeah, keep doing what you'redoing and keep aging well.
(54:45):
Thanks so much. And I'm going to go watch Elf
and look for your dad in that music thing he appreciate.
Great story. Yeah.
OK. All right, good.
Thanks so much for your time, Jeff.
Great interview. Thank you.
Thank you for listening. I hope you benefited from
today's podcast and until next time, keep aging well.
Welcome to the Aging World Podcast where we uncover the
wisdom, resilience, and possibilities that come with
growing older. Today.
We are thrilled to be joined by Becky Blue.
Becky is the author of Turning the Magic and Mystery of More
Days. Becky brings a fresh and
inspiring perspective on aging, challenging the stereotypes of a
youth obsessed culture and encouraging us to embrace life's
(00:26):
third act with grace, joy, and purpose.
Becky will share insights on redefining aging, the profound
power of relationships, and inspiring stories of individuals
who have discovered new passionsand fulfillment later in life.
Her work offers a vibrant and hopeful road map for anyone
looking to age well and thrive in the years ahead.
(00:47):
Becky, welcome to the Aging Wellpodcast.
I'd like you to start by just telling us a little bit about
yourself and what inspired you to write your book Turning the
Magic and Mystery of More Days. Well, thanks, Jeff.
It's great to be here and thanksfor all the Super content.
I've really had fun listening toyour podcast.
I've been learning a lot. Yeah.
(01:08):
I feel like my story fits in with you.
I am a retired nurse, and all through my nursing career I
really love looking at people, body, mind and spirit.
I feel like we're very whole beings.
And so then when and a lot of mymore recent career had to do
with state community nursing andgrant writing.
And so I fell back into this love of writing.
(01:29):
So I decided to start writing A blog.
And then I was coming up on my 60th birthday and all my friends
were freaking out and I thought,hey, I got this.
I am actually trained as a geriatric clinical nurse
specialist. I should know, I've got a
library full of books about aging.
I should be able to conquer thisor be able to at least face it.
(01:52):
And so it happened to be during the pandemic right at the
beginning. And so I had a lot of time to
write. So we all had a lot of time.
And so I just started writing. And it was such a blessing to be
able to write and then find a publisher and then decide that
I'm going to put it out there and see if I can help some other
people. And so it's just been a great
(02:13):
journey, so. And so you critique the quote UN
quote anti aging culture that's promoted by the beauty and
fitness industries. What harm do you see in this
narrative? Well, I think if you are a
person like me who looks at people body minded spirit, there
is a real heavy effort on preventing aging in our body,
(02:39):
right? And that's putting that mind and
spirit to the side where to me, that's where really the richness
comes with aging. And now I'm 65 and so the last
five years I feel like I've lived into my book or used it as
a field guide. And yeah, I mean, we all want to
look good, right? But I'm finding and focusing
(02:59):
more on my mind and my spirit and it really impacts how I
feel. It impacts the relationships
with other people. So if you are just focusing on
beauty and what you can buy fromthe Madison Ave. advertisers,
you're missing like 2/3 of it all.
Yeah, we started this podcast astwo exercise physiologist and
(03:21):
trying to focus a little bit more on kind of the health side
of it all. I mean, still being preventative
and still looking at the healthyside of it.
Not the appearance, not how can you get 6 pack abs and still be
60 and all that kind of BS. But as we've gone on with this
podcast, it is taking on much more of key themes like
(03:42):
gratitude. And we spell gratitude with two
TS. We have what my friend Jay has
labeled as spies because I always talk about spiritual,
physical, intellectual, emotional and and social
well-being. And he's like, did you
intentionally order it in that way?
Because you know what spells outspies and I never picked up on
that, but I order it in that waybecause I do think the spiritual
(04:05):
and the physical really dovetailtogether.
The spiritual has to lead the physical.
And I think when we get on that physical, and I think that's
what you're talking about, that kind of anti aging mentality
where we think it's all about the physical and we're looking
at our bodies and how they're starting to change and how
(04:26):
they're getting wrinkled and there might be a little bit more
body fat on there. And all the other stuff that
comes with the perception of aging, and that tends to be the
focus. And we want to counter that.
And so that's why I'm excited tohave you here to talk about your
book and just your evolution into understanding a little bit
(04:47):
more about the aging process. So how can we start celebrating
aging as a natural and empowering part of life instead
of resisting it? Well, I think step one is
hopefully being able to find some good role models of aging
and maybe you and I could be a couple of those.
I think we are right, but I think the big thing is even just
(05:10):
being willing to talk about it. So, and I do think even in the
last, since I turned 60, I feel like aging has been a little
more on the forefront. I mean, we see it in our
political arena, we see it in entertainment, people who are
still stepping up even in their older years.
And but I think it's important for each person to find some
(05:32):
good role models of aging and then to just talk about it, talk
about it at the coffee shop withyour friends.
It's going to be a taboo topic. Do you find yourself celebrating
your age more now that you've taken on this perspective?
Oh. I love that question.
Well, I will tell you, I've always been a real birthday
(05:52):
person. I absolutely love birthdays and
I'm all about throne parties andall that.
But yeah, I would say I definitely celebrate it more
now. And the subtitle to my book, The
Magic and Mystery of More Days. I think it reminds me that you
can, every age can have some magic and definitely every age
(06:12):
has mystery. And so it's interesting to find
when I light another birthday candle, OK, how have I changed
or what am I braver about? I think I'm braver.
What am I more curious about? Curious is one of my favorite
words. And I think that could be there
for anybody, no matter what you're dealing with in body,
mind and spirit. So I find myself as a college
(06:36):
professor teaching exercise Physiology, that I tend to get
more proud of my age when I'm talking to my students.
It's like, yeah, this is all I did aging.
And when we go through like the normative data on things like
BO2 Max and strength and all those kind of things, I point
out to them, it's like, this is ridiculous that they tell me
(06:57):
that when I'm 22, if I can benchmy weight, I'm in average
fitness. But now that I'm 60, I'm 61.
Now in my 60s, being able to bench my body weight, it makes
me like superhuman. It's like, that should not be
the case. Oh.
Yeah, talk about low expectations.
Right. It's like because everybody else
declines so rapidly, our expectations are that we should
(07:20):
decline rapidly rather than defying the aging process.
Yes. And I hope we're getting some
fresh research around some of those parameters.
One of the things, and and I know you're into exercise, so I
was hoping we could talk a little bit about I'm obsessed by
and as a geriatric nurse, I tookcare of way too many people
(07:41):
fell, broke their hips, whatever, had a huge change of
lifestyle because of it. I'll be darned if I'm not going
to hurt myself. I mean, I might fall once or
twice, but I am going to have great balance so I can prevent
that. So about 18 months ago I started
taking ballet and and also in myPilates that I have weekly, my
(08:02):
instructor's been observing how much longer I can do my single
leg stand and she's been workingwith me for 15 years.
And so I'm having a better one leg now at 65 than I did at 50.
Yeah. And we have one of my early
guests was this guy Carmine Arpea, who I was introduced to
(08:26):
through an old friend of mine from Long Island, New York.
And he was a, he was the fitnessdirector for Pecanic Landing,
which is a continuous care retirement community on Long
Island. And he just recently retired
from that. But in his work, they always
used to refer to this equation that they used for balance as
(08:48):
Carmine's law. And I officially published it in
my pathophysiology and exercise textbook.
So it's now an official law, at least from Myra guide.
So we call it Carmine's law, butit states that strength plus
posture equals balance. And I really like that because
those are the two really key components.
A lot of times we train for balance by just having you, OK,
(09:11):
I'm going to have you stand on one leg as long as you can.
And OK, you get good at maybe standing at that particular
stance. But does that translate into you
being able to prevent a fall as you're walking along and you
step on a crack or something on the curb where you come to an
uneven surface and you have to adjust quickly?
And we know that balance is our ability to maintain our center
(09:34):
of mass within our base of support.
And so posture always brings that into a more centered
position. The more upright we can walk and
stand better our balance is going to be.
And I suspect that your balance is a lot better because you've
been doing the Pilates and the other activities that are
improving on you, both your strength and your posture.
(09:56):
And that translates into a little bit more balance.
Yes, I'm passionate about posture and actually I'm
excited. A research study in my book
where there was people observe older adults and ultimately they
said that those who had better posture were perceived to be 15
years younger than they really were.
(10:17):
So if that isn't something to grab, those people are thinking
more about the body piece of it.Just stand up straight like your
mom used to tell you to do. So I'm there with you, but I
hadn't heard about that. For me, I love that strength,
push posture equals balance. Yep.
Oh, that's so good. OK, so.
It's Carmine's law, according toDoctor Jeff Armstrong.
(10:41):
Perfect, I'll remember it. Yeah, I really, I like it and I
really stress it to my students because it's, if you want to be
able to move better, you know you're not going to do it.
As you continue to slip into this kyphonic build, we get
weaker. And I really encourage and I've
had a shift in my own perspective of exercise since I
(11:03):
really got into exercise Physiology because when I
started studying it, they, I mean, I guess I started studying
it really in the 70s when I was in high school and learning
resistance training and all thatkind of stuff.
But as I got into the field of exercise Physiology in the mid
80s, it was cardiovascular is low, high carbs, low fat and a
(11:23):
lot of cardio, heart health. And I think we neglected the
strength training. And it was a number of years ago
was at the American College of Sports Medicine conference when
they were honoring a bunch of the senior fellows in the
organization. And I watched some of these guys
walking on and they're only in their probably mid 80s, but they
were all like shuffling. They're very kyphotic and
(11:45):
slumped over, very frail looking.
It's like, that isn't how I wantto look when I'm in my 80s,
Right? Right.
And I realize it's like the reason they're like that is
because they focus on cardio. And you do cardio without the
strength training, you tend to overall lose muscle mass over
time. And as you lose muscle mass,
you're going to lose functionality and it just
(12:07):
becomes this vicious cycle whereyou just get frailer and
frailer. You might have a great heart,
you might not die of a heart attack, but you may end up dying
of a fall or something like thatbecause you don't have the
strength, the balance, the agility, and those types of
things to be able to move more effectively.
And so I emphasize so much more the strength because cardio is
easy to maintain. If you just keep moving and it's
(12:29):
strong, you can keep moving. And so that's been a pretty
strong emphasis in kind of my feeling, and I'm talking too
much. This is an interview of you.
No, that's OK. And I'm really curious about
because I actually want to ask you a question because one of
the things I feel like I've gotten through Pilates is that
I'm not just working those largemuscle groups.
I'm working in those small ones.And I know I'm doing so much of
(12:51):
that in ballet where if you wereto walk into my ballet clots,
you probably think, well, this doesn't look very hard, but it
actually is. We are isolating.
We're doing those turnouts, we're doing those position and
we're really having to use thosesmaller muscles.
And I feel like that is something that we need to really
be reminding people about in that strength discussion.
(13:14):
So I'm curious how you bring that in.
I emphasize at the start of any kind of strengthening program
the importance of the hips and the rotator cuff muscles because
those are the what tie our limbsto our trunk.
And if those are weak, we're going to have all kind of health
issues and injuries and things like that, particularly in the
(13:34):
hips. When we talk about, you know,
people tearing their Acls, it's because they have weak hips.
It's not because they have weak knees and ballet.
I mean, I challenge you to show me any senior ballerina who does
not still have great posture. Absolutely.
Because they're emphasizing those small muscles to contract,
(13:56):
to stay upright, to balance themselves, to maintain those
positions. And so, yeah, they, and anymore
you look at a lot of ballerinas,they're much more muscular than
they used to be. And I think some of it is
there's a little less of that emphasis on that frail, thin,
wafy looking build in, in ballerinas that they're and
(14:18):
they're doing more in the in thedance movements that require
more strength. And so they do have a little bit
more muscular Turk to them. I mean, they don't look like
sprinters or anything, but, you know, they're a bit more
muscular. But I think a lot of it is
because they're working those small muscles that control the
body. And we do neglect those.
We go to the gym. It's like, I want big biceps.
(14:40):
I want big. Yeah.
Exactly. And I tell my athletes that I
work with it's like, why you waste your time?
Why is the first exercise you doin the gym is the bench press
and the bicep curl when those are the least necessary muscles
in your body? So.
Good, let's get the hit and the big, the big muscles that also
have the small controlling muscles.
(15:01):
I mean I love functionally the squat is the best exercise and I
have shifted over. To me, if I could only do one
exercise, it would be a zerture squat, and that's where you hold
the bar in the crux of the arm. And it requires a lot more core.
It requires that you have to track those hip muscles to get
your legs out of the way so thatyou can squat deep enough.
(15:21):
Really works the ABS, works the upper back, works the trapezius.
I mean, it's a great postural exercise.
I, I love it. And it's a hard exercise too,
because it's not comfortable holding the weight in that
position. But.
For me it's it's an easier position and I I just enjoy it
so I push it a lot more. I'm going on my Zurcher soapbox
(15:44):
and. Yeah, that's awesome standpoint.
I mean, this is such rich information.
And I the other thing I'm just going to give you a little tip
and you've maybe used this. I think as I as an adult
learner, I need a lot of word pictures from my coach.
And so the my Pilates instructoralways says pretend you're
putting your scapula muscles or whatever you call them into two
(16:07):
big deep pockets. And so I'm even doing that here
while I said. So maybe your listeners might
appreciate that. So if you could just, I used to
go to palauge jokes source like this or like this mostly.
Like, yeah, so she's like, OK, just relax the neck, but put
those shoulder blades into two big pockets.
And that just helps my posture so much.
(16:29):
Yeah, it's good an instruction because a lot of times people,
they think posture, they just pull their shoulder blades back
and attract them, but that's notreally still good posture.
You want to have that kind of relaxed and it also helps you to
elevate the vertebral column andjust lengthen everything out and
keep that height and just keep anice positioning.
That's a great cue. I have to remember that one.
(16:51):
See, I learned things on this podcast, and I think that's the
main reason that I do the podcast is part of it is we want
to instruct people, but I think I learned more in the process of
trying to instruct. So thank you for that.
Absolutely. So back to your book and in your
area and and asking you the questions, you emphasize the
(17:12):
importance of supportive partnerships and loving
relationships and aging. Well, yeah.
Why are these so vital? Well, I, what I find is, and you
read this and you've read peopletalking on your podcast about, I
mean, the most pervasive chronicillness in America is loneliness
and it impacts US body, mind andspirit.
(17:33):
So when I was a geriatric nurse and I was part of an
interdisciplinary team and we would evaluate like somebody
would bring their mom and tryingto decide, can mom still live at
home? That kind of question.
And one of my favorite questionsto ask was how many people can
you call if you need help or assistance?
And a lot of people were able tosay, oh, I've got three or four
(17:56):
people I can call. And sometimes there's only one.
I think one time I had somebody say zero.
I mean, how heartbreaking is that?
That hurts, right? And so we need to foster those
relationships. Another thing I always like to
say is it's OK to get new friends as you're older.
And that's what I find when thisnext chapter of life, when you
get curious about different things, you might end up kind of
(18:18):
finding new friends. And that's OK.
Doesn't mean you have to leave the old ones, but to develop new
relationships is great. The other thing I always
recommend to people, especially like this time of year, is to
take an inventory of your friendships and their ages.
And I always tell people, you should have a friend from each
decade of life. So would you have a friend who's
(18:41):
in their teens, You have a friend in their 20s, one in
their 30s, one in their 40s. And not just that you can check
the box, but that you really aresomeone that you would call or
text or sit down and have coffeewith.
So relationships are so key. And I think one of the chapters
in my book, which I feel is justat the crux of making sure that
(19:01):
those relationships are authentic and rich is to lean
into forgiveness. And so I can't stress that
enough for people. That's especially sometimes at
this age. We carried some of those past
hurts and burdens with us for solong.
And at some point, if you can let go and forgive another
(19:22):
person, that makes the relationship just so much more
valuable and meaningful and fullof love.
Yeah, it's interesting. Through the podcast, I've
evolved my pillars of aging. Well, when I probably when I
first started, it would had fourpillars.
Something that I always taught in my pathophysiology and
exercise class was it if you want to have good longevity and
(19:45):
be disease free as your age, it's exercise and physical
activity, maintain healthy body composition, eat a healthy diet
and don't smoke. And then we've added, you know,
sleep hygiene in there as well. But one that just keeps coming
up repeatedly is social connectedness.
And not only that, we've added in front of that purposeful
(20:08):
social connections because a lotof people have social
connections. And I think I got a lot of
friends, you know, I go out, go and meet my buddies at the bar
on Thursday nights and we hang out and drink beer and watch
sports or something. That's not necessarily.
And are those really the people that when you do need somebody,
when you have to call somebody, they're going to be the ones
(20:29):
that are coming to your, to yoursupport.
And so it's those people that are relationships that are going
to be mutually beneficial. I think it's probably poor.
Way of saying it, but no, I think that's true and and
another besides forgiveness. The one thing I like to remind
(20:50):
people that I write about is thedifferent difference.
Rather than being in conversation, be in dialogue.
That there is a difference between conversation and
dialogue. And I would say what we're
having here is a great dialogue.So you're really listening to
that other person and you're playing off of what they're
saying. You don't come in with a
preconceived agenda about. I always laugh about sometimes
(21:11):
older people would like to go through our organ recital like,
oh, my back hurts today. I got a headache.
I can't hear. Avoid the organ recital.
And just yesterday, I got to be on a podcast and the woman asked
me in it a great question. It was very simple.
We could all take it with us. And it was just what's next for
you? What a great question.
(21:33):
What's next for you? And so to just be more in
dialogue and I guess probably the basis of that, which we've
all heard so many times, to justbe a good listener, get people
the gift of listening. I I think that, and it's
something we often miss in a lotof conversations.
I've had conversations with people where it's like, you
really don't want to hear from me, you just want to talk.
(21:54):
Yeah. And so, yeah.
And I think we could do that a lot better.
Even when we try and listen, arewe really listening?
Are we really hearing? Are we looking for the
undertones, the words between the words and looking at the
body language and all those types of things that we probably
don't do well enough? Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah, because I know there's a lot of like I've had
(22:16):
international friends that really don't like how Americans
will greet one another by sayinghow you how's it going?
We don't expect an answer when we say how's it going?
And I think we need to get to a point where when we ask
somebody, how you doing? We're waiting for a response.
How would it affect people if weactually said to them, no, I
(22:38):
mean it, how are you doing and really push them to to tell us
how are they doing? Absolutely.
And that all kind of fits in. I mean, we haven't talked a lot
about why I called the book turning.
I mean, the obvious thing is because I was turning 60, that's
why I called it turning. I love that you said you love
posture, because I do too. And the overall overarching
(22:59):
reason I choose chose turning isbecause rather than turning into
ourselves when we age and becoming our own project self
improvement project, whatever focused on our own organ
recital, the idea should be thatwe turn out, we look out to the
world we look up to at higher power and really listen to what
(23:19):
does the world need for me rightnow.
That's a fascinating statement. I love that.
And so I, I just started anotherpodcast, which is we have a
spiritual problem that's evolvedoff of this one because I have
these kind of conversations withpeople.
And as I've been doing the firstfew interviews, I find myself in
(23:39):
these long pauses because it's like, OK, where do I go from
here? I have a list of relative
questions that I ask, but it's like, wow, I just need to take a
breath and absorb that response.And so it becomes as long
response. Whereas it's fine when you're
just having a conversation with people, but when you're
producing a podcast where peoplemay sit there listening, it's
(24:01):
like, OK, is it over? Did it stop?
What's going? On exactly don't dead silence,
that's bad. Yeah.
So what advice do you have for people who are feeling isolated
and disconnected as they age? Well, I guess the first thing
would be to try to look out. Turn your head, turn your eyes,
be curious, pick up the phone, reconnect with people, talk to.
(24:28):
I mean, I guess I'm just too extroverted.
I love talking to strangers and super too, too long we've been
told don't talk to strangers, But if you're running your cart
in the grocery store, start a conversation with someone and
then a night get it takes some bravery and courage, but it
takes some bravery and courage to get old.
(24:49):
My dad always said aging is not for sissies.
And so into you're really in charge of your own place in this
earth where your feet are. And so she can put them where
somebody else is, even if they're sitting next to you on
the subway or on a bus or whatever.
I might. The name of my company is made
with words and I just feel like words.
(25:12):
Obviously words are so powerful but we dismiss them and just
like your great example, we asked how they are but we don't
really listen up. I know how they are, so I would
just encourage people to be curious and to be in
conversation or dialogue. I.
Appreciate those people who do reach out to you and ask you the
(25:33):
questions and try and engage in conversation.
Because I am a bit more of an introvert.
I, I'm not the person that's going to go around.
My dad was the complete opposite.
I mean, he'd walk into a room and he met so many different
celebrities and things like thatbecause he, the way he would
walk in a room and then engage with people, they just thought
they were supposed to know him. And so they were just like, OK,
(25:57):
I, I must know him. Just engaged in the way that
they think they know him. And he just had great
conversations with people that just like, how do you get to
meet these people? So I'm not as good with that.
And so I really appreciate it ifsomebody reaches out to me and
asks the questions. And I'm more willing to talk
(26:17):
once I get the engagement going,but I'm not the initiator very
well. So how can older adults overcome
a fear of starting new somethingnew in their life?
Yeah, fear. I think I've got a chapter, a
book about fear versus trust. And I think those are things
that sort of a dichotomy, right,that we all sort of deal with.
(26:39):
And for me being now this gets alittle bit spiritual, so forgive
me, I guess, but for for me, it's like, OK, I'm good.
God's got me. If I fail, it's something it's
OK. I just want to hurt myself.
I don't want to break a hip, butI think just sort of to look
again for those role models. And if I tell them that, yeah,
(27:04):
18 months ago I decided to startballet, well, that was a brave
act. And so just be a little bit
brave. Do something new, go eat
somewhere new, go take a different route to the grocery
store, whatever. I mean, baby steps.
And then maybe all of a sudden you'll be like, I'm going to
plan a trip. I gave a 10X talk about you're
never too young to choose how toage and it talked a lot about
(27:27):
how we can, the goal being that we can not have this steady
decline in our life, but really just maybe we even improve and
as as we get older. Anyway, there was a woman in the
audience who was I think 60 and she shared with me later she
goes, you have to hear you speak.
I went home and I booked 4 trips.
(27:48):
So I think you just and she was just so energized.
So I, I, I think just whether it's a small step or a big step,
it will start transforming you. And I think that's this beauty
of this third act. I like to call retirement the
end of repetition. I think so often in our working
(28:11):
years, we, because we have to, we stay in this routine and we
do what we have to do and all those expectations are met.
But there is this glorious open calendar, really, as we retire,
and it's up to us to decide whatwe're gonna fill it with.
Go back to my dad and just the different things and he's had a
(28:31):
lifetime of taking just weird risks and doing things that
you're like, really, you do that.
I mean, when he was young he dida lot of stand up comedy.
I remember I was used to tell a story about being on the same
card with Flip Wilson before Flip Wilson came out with the
Geraldine, which some of our listeners might know who
(28:53):
Geraldine is, some might not. But he got to see Geraldine
before anybody else did. And he did that kind of stuff
for a while and then he got backinto it.
After he, his wife had retired, he was still working as
consulting business in Pittsburgh, and she took a job
heading up the YWCA in New York.And so they had to move from
(29:14):
Pittsburgh to New York. So he had to give up his
business. So it forced him into
retirement. And so he needed some stuff to
do. She's like, why?
Why don't you try some acting? And so he got an agent and he
was getting a lot of extra work and he was really on that cusp
of probably getting some speaking roles had they stayed
in New York a little bit longer.But I mean, he was on Law and
(29:36):
Order, Criminal Intent, like every episode.
He was like a regular extra on this show.
It was on, we watch Elf every. It's we're recording this, it's
Christmas season and yeah, he's in Elf and we watch it.
Every. Year just to see him in that
Central Park. OK, you got to tell me what
scene he's in. Central Park.
OK, yeah, it's at Central Park scene when they're singing the
(29:58):
the. At the end.
Song. Yeah.
I forget what song they're singing, but he's in the back.
He's back, probably in the back row in probably about like the
right quarter of the screen. Yeah, you have to sing loud
corral to hear. Yeah, that's right.
Yeah, you could. You'll probably be able to
figure out who he is because we,it's my remember joke.
(30:19):
We use the same line with the same facial disfigurements.
So he looks look a lot alike, except he has.
I should have put that in quotation mark.
My dad wore a hairpiece at that time.
So but yeah, you'll, you might just see him in there and he's
in Wedding Crashers. There's one scene where he's
like, depending on which kind ofvery variation of, I didn't
(30:41):
realize they have different variations of movies that yeah,
they're edited differently for different purposes.
And so there's a scene in the big wedding reception that he's
either the only one on camera orit's him and this other woman.
They flash to them as they're there.
And yeah, he's that other. He was in It's Part of the
(31:03):
Family, which is a movie with the all three generations of the
Douglass's, Kirk, Michael and Cameron.
And he was actually invited by Kirk Douglas to be at the table
at the wake. Now you only see the back
quarter of his head, but that's him on camera.
And he was invited there by KirkDouglas.
(31:24):
He was so selected by all the people there as extras to to be
at that table. And then there's another scene
where you can see him back in the distance behind the
conversation. But it's funny.
Yeah, he's done that stuff. I mean, he tried out for the
Steelers back in the 60s, and henever played football in high
school or college. And yet he got, he made it the
training camp. And it's like, and there were so
(31:46):
many times in my life like I grew up.
I'm going to go off on a tangentand be way too self revealing
here, but. That's OK, nurse.
People always do that with me. It's OK.
My parents divorced when I was like freshman in high school and
it was a struggle with me and mymom and I didn't learn it until
much later. That part of the struggle was
because I reminded her so much of my dad, just physically,
(32:10):
personality wise and all these types of things.
I didn't realize how hard it wasfor her.
I always just and it caused a bit of a rift for a while.
But you know, like I said, like you said, forgiveness is
important, especially as we get in our older years.
And so we were able to mend those bridges.
But she used to always say you're just like your father.
And I always took it as a negative.
(32:32):
And when my dad, he would do these things but not quite get
to that level of success. I would, I would take it
personally on myself it I was never going to really perfectly
succeed. And it it took me years and
years to realize like my wife and I did a workshop was when we
were engaged to get married. And one of the questions they
(32:55):
asked was negative talk that youreceived growing up.
And I was like, I never got negative talk.
In fact, my parents were always overly supportive and I felt
like, oh, come on, you know, I can't do this that well, I'm not
that good. But the only negative talk I
could come up with was that statement of you're just like
your father. And then I realized it really
wasn't negative talk. And it was a huge hurdle for me
(33:17):
to get over that and realize that that was more of a
hindrance. And that this idea of failing
because you're trying things is a very important part of life
and aging well. And don't be afraid to do things
that might cause you to not succeed, because the success is
in the fact that you actually did it.
That's right. And Dad, he probably would have
(33:40):
loved your dad is my dad always said can't never done nothing,
which is really poor grammar. And my mom was an English
teacher, which makes me laugh, but never done nothing.
I'm at Johnson, which they're one of us, but he's just this
Norwegian farmer, just plain spoken.
And so I take that with me. And so maybe that's why I'm
(34:04):
trying all these things. But I did want to mention that
one of my main goals really in my work right now is I want to
change the culture of aging, which I guess you would probably
agree with that as well. But when you look at kind of
change theory or culture, changing culture, the ways to do
that are to tell stories. And I love that you shared that
(34:24):
story. Thank you so much.
But if we all tell our stories of age day, like you just share
the stories of your dad, That's how we little by little change
the culture. And I've been meeting with book
clubs recently and and I was listening to this.
I think I threw this question out like what have you done
lately that kind of surprised you or some somewhat unusual.
(34:48):
And a lady raised her hand and she goes, well, there's a group
of us that get together every Wednesday and the promise is
that we can't ever do the same thing and not any Wednesdays.
We have to always do something new.
And she said last Wednesday we went over to our little skeet
hill here and we all went tubingtogether.
And so this group of 60 plus women were tubing in the middle
(35:12):
of the afternoon. I thought that's fantastic.
I said, who did you tell about that?
And she just was quiet. I said, so that's an example of
if you would tell that story, ifyou put the pictures on
Facebook, Instagram, whatever, make sure you tell your
grandchildren whoever you want and to little by little, we
change the culture of aging by sharing those stories.
Yeah, that's fascinating. Back to your can't never done
(35:35):
nothing. The reason I struggled with that
is when I lived in New York pastor to church, I was going to
he was raised in Oklahoma. He was the old farm boy and his
dad always taught us his dad raised him can't never done
nothing. You know the same grammar, yes,
I said. Wow, I've not heard anybody else
(35:55):
tell that. And I've.
I've never heard anybody else say that either.
I might have to get on that all the.
Time, I mean, I tell my kids that and my daughter pushes me,
pushes back on it all the time, said she's trying to find that
one thing or give an example where can't did something and
can't, cannot do anything. That's the whole point.
And so I I think that is a greataging well statement is can't
(36:18):
never done nothing so. Yeah, the other thing you always
said, which I always cringe if my teenagers heard it, is he
would always say, yeah, you could, let's do something even
if it's wrong. Yeah, I don't know if I'd want
to tell my kids that. No, I don't think so.
Well, mom, you told me it was OK.
Yeah, kids were going out drinking.
I know it was wrong, but you know you told me to do it.
(36:42):
Exactly. No, I think it was usually in
the context of when this sort ofdecision paralysis, when we
couldn't decide what to do with that, like where to go on
vacation or where to go eat or whatever supper.
He would just say let's do something, even if it's wrong.
That's a couple, too. It's like, I think we all get in
that Stew of decision paralysis and just do something.
Yeah. Just move, right?
(37:03):
Just move. Yeah.
And I think that goes along withthe whole idea of not being
afraid to fail. We had Jim Harshaw, his podcast
used to be Success Through Failure.
And I always loved that kind of theme where you're succeeding if
you're failing because you're moving forward and you're always
(37:24):
going beyond the bounds of what you are currently capable of
doing. And the more you push those
boundaries, the more you're going to grow.
I mean, you cannot grow without challenging and without failing.
And from a physiological standpoint, that Physiology
feeds into my spiritual views and my intellectual, emotional
and all that they you, you cannot be growing if you are not
(37:48):
failing on occasion and. I think that's.
Important as wage. Yeah, absolutely.
And I talk about forgiveness anda lot of times the forgiveness
has to come back to you. You have to forgive yourself,
you know, And so maybe you did make some bad choices along the
way or whatever, but, you know, let those go.
That's a frozen thing. Let go.
(38:10):
I don't believe there are bad choices, you know, and you get a
little bit more of a spiritual dimension with that.
But it's like there might be wrong decisions to the extent,
but the decisions that we make, good or bad, are always pointing
us to where we are right now. So we can't look back at least
and say I would do this differently because if we did it
(38:32):
differently, even though it might have been the right thing
to do at that point, despite society standards, we may not be
the same person we are right nowand somebody else may not be the
same person that they are. So you can't look back and say I
made a mistake here. This was the decision I made, I
accept it. And what do I do now from where
(38:52):
that has delivered me? I really appreciate when you
said other people's lives might be different.
And my husband and I'm married to an entrepreneur, physician
turned entrepreneurs. We're always trying to make
different small businesses and some of them have worked and
some of them haven't. But I always say, think about
all the our employees who ended up moving to Nashville or
(39:13):
wherever we were doing this and they ended up meeting their
spouse. They ended up you really impact
people's lives. Maybe it impacted ours a little
more negatively, but I, I think you're right there.
I'd like that that there really aren't any bad choices.
The other thing I love to do at this age, and it's a gift that
you really can only do maybe at the say I always, I love that
(39:34):
game of connect the dots. I always love doing those when I
was a little, but now when you're my age, you connect the
dots near whole life. And I look back and I see that
the decisions I made professionally have led me to
this point, have led me to be a writer, have led me to write
this book. And I'm so thankful even though
at the time I never made one. Some of those dots that just
(39:55):
felt sort of not that much fun, but it's really glorious to look
back and see where God is connected them all for you.
In this youth obsessed culture, how do we amplify the voices and
contributions of the older generation?
That's really good. I think it's telling stories.
(40:17):
I know about intergenerational activities and like I said,
having friends from every decade.
One of the steps I really like, it's called generativity.
And it's the idea of sort of twoways that kind of looking at
what I'm, how am I leaving the world a better place?
(40:38):
But then it's also asking yourself, what have I learned
from my children or from the young people in my life?
And so I think we need to it, itgoes back to dialogue.
Just when you sit around the table with your kids had some
serious conversation or you're meeting friends in a wherever,
(40:59):
whatever activity you're at, just tell me what's important to
you right now. And then maybe hopefully they
would ask you the same question.And so that I think it's
dialogue, just I'm hopeful. I feel like this next round of
people who are coming up and I get mixed up, if we're calling
them millennials or whatever, who is next, I feel like they're
(41:22):
not quite so valuing of their privacy.
They're willing to share, obviously because of social
media. And so I think we will, I think
the page will turn on that will just be much more open.
And that's my hope, anyway. I hope so.
And I hope that with that generation, there's also a care
(41:44):
and a willingness to listen to others because I think a lot of
things that happen with social media is that it's people
presenting themselves, but they're not always as open to
receiving, being on the receiving end of social media.
Right. That they.
Yeah. And I found that for myself
with, like, Facebook, you know, as our generation took Facebook
(42:05):
away from the younger generation.
Yeah. Right now you'll never find
anybody like under 30 on Facebook, right?
True, I found myself often timesinventing and just different
frustrations or whatever and I realized I'm just bringing a
negative presence to this platform and I started shifting
my mindset to trying to draw other people in.
(42:29):
Just like one common thing I'll do periodically is just type out
the statement. I'm praying for someone special.
And sometimes that's influenced by somebody who has shared that
they have got something going onand you don't want to just put
on their, hey, yeah, I'm prayingfor Joe Shmoe.
He, you know, has cancer or something like that.
But I found that people who are struggling with something, they
(42:52):
read that and they feel like, OK, he's here for me.
Whether I even know that they have an issue or not.
I feel like that helps. And just trying to be positive,
bringing a positive message to it.
And a lot of times when I'm struggling, when I'm the most
positive on social media or in my blog and those types of
things, it's probably a reflection of what that I'm
(43:13):
struggling with something prettypretty much because I need to
just vent in a way, but I need to vent in a way that's going to
be positive and encouraging to myself and to others.
And it really helps. I need to probably do it more.
And I could generally tell when I'm not in the best spaces, like
(43:33):
gauging what kind of comments I'm putting on social media.
Right, And as much as we hear negative about social media and
it be just an amazing tool or back to your original question
about how to prevent isolation or or loneliness in older adults
and or maybe now even with AI, what what can we do to keep
(43:53):
people engaged and relevant in the world and really again
turning outside themselves? I think that's the key.
And so I as much as you can tellyour story without being tell
your own story, but you're concerned about how is everybody
(44:14):
else hearing it? Yeah.
And I love that with social media as an aging adult and
somebody has moved around quite a bit, I like to keep contact
with people and phone numbers change, addresses change, and
it's hard to keep up with people.
And so with that, there's always, if somebody comes to
(44:34):
mind, I can search and if I can't find them specifically or
haven't been in contact with them, I could reach out to
somebody else. Hey, have you talked to so and
so in a while? And so those connections remain
a little bit more solid as we age, whereas I went through a
period of time with when moving,you know, my address changes, my
(44:56):
phone number changes, people move and you've lost contact
with them. And it's been like 20 years
since you you've talked to them and you have no idea how to get
a hold of them. Now with social media, it's like
better white pages. Yeah, absolutely.
The other thing I think is I don't know if you do much on
Facebook Marketplace. This is really an aside, but we
(45:17):
were doing a big house remodel and so I ended up Facebook
Marketplacing so many items and I'd have people just come to my
house and pick them up. Oh my God, I met so many
different people from so many walks of life and I just
thought, I don't know, like Facebook Marketplace could be a
key to meeting new people. Just sell something.
(45:37):
Just just. Sell something.
I need a new friend. What do I got here?
I'm going to sell this. It could happen because there
was a gentleman who kept wantingthe camera equipment that I was
selling and he was actually in not in Hospice.
He was in cancer treatment in our town.
He was from a little rural area,so he was staying in a small
(45:58):
apartment. And I swear he would come out
every four days just to talk to me and buy some little new old
flash or whatever. And so I guess my point being is
there's people out there who aren't even that far away from
your doorstep. You just want to have a
relationship and they could bring richness to your life.
And so it's you just got to takethat first step.
(46:19):
The guy's probably got a whole pile of camera equipment in his
apartment that he doesn't use because he has no interest in
photography, but he just appreciated having somebody to
talk to. Yeah, it was great.
I benefited from it as well. Yeah.
That is great. So what are some simple steps
that people can take today to embrace age and find
(46:42):
fulfillment? I think we talked a little bit
about some of that, but. Yeah, again, I think it's just
turning outside ourselves being very what's going on in your
community, maybe joining some new groups, getting into
relationships with other older adults or finding or not older
(47:04):
adults even. I really love like ballet
because my friends in ballet arein their 30s forties, maybe 50s,
but so it's not about age, and maybe that's part of it.
I can't really say that I think about my age very much.
You know, the number 65 is right.
But yeah, it's just the number. When I used to teach employees
(47:27):
in the hospital about how to care for people who are aging, I
always said that older adults, like, enjoy people of every age.
They don't pick you don't pick your friends based on what age
they are. And then you may be doing,
you're in 4th grade because you're all on the playground at
the same time. But when you're my age, you find
other people who have some of the same interests, some of the
(47:48):
same curiosities and build a relationship.
So I I think that's, and then itgoes back to that idea of
generativity. If you find somebody in those
other age groups, you're going to learn something from them
that will change you and that will make you more relevant.
I think relevancy is an important thing to consider as
(48:08):
an older adult. Am I relevant in 2020?
Am I, for lack of a better word,interesting?
Am I an interesting person? Well, if you meet somebody new,
like the guy I met through Facebook Marketplace, well,
there you've got a story you cantell with your friends.
That's a fun story to tell. So collect, do some new activity
(48:29):
and just so you have some stories, stay interesting and
that will make you more interesting to other people,
especially younger people. And don't be afraid to do stupid
stuff, because those make great stories, right?
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
Tell about all your foibles thathappened.
And I do blame some of those on my age, but.
Yeah, I tell way too many of those stories when I'm lecturing
(48:50):
to my students, so. Yeah, they get a kick out of it,
I'm sure. They love that I can laugh at
myself and they laugh with me. So it's good.
Yeah. So is there one message you hope
readers take away from your book?
And what would that be? I think the message is that the
world needs you even at 708085, whatever the world needs you.
(49:16):
And so you need to just not be navel gazing, turn outside
yourself, listen and just be ready to step up.
And I think that what's amazing to me is there are so many of us
now retiring. I don't know the stats you
probably do, but it's just a crazy amount of people, right,
who are in their 65 plus each group.
(49:38):
And I always think about the what is the wisdom within that
group or the knowledge. And in a way, more recently
we've just been shoving them down to Arizona or California or
Florida, wherever they want to golf.
They can play golf or whatever. And there's nothing wrong with
that. But I think it's a society.
We're really missing an opportunity to tap into that
(50:02):
knowledge, that creativity, the resources that can happen in
this age group. And I talk a fair amount about
that in the book as well, how weas a society, we've really got
to people our age. I think there's a lot of missed
opportunities to build some of these retirement communities in
(50:24):
conjunction with elementary and middle schools and colleges,
because both of those populations can hugely benefit
from the older adults and the older adults can benefit from
them as well. And if we could build those
social connections a little bit more, it gives people better
opportunities to age well. And unfortunately we have to be
(50:45):
real intentional about it these days because so many people,
they don't live by their grandparents or I think we tend
to put people in silos. So the 20 somethings stay
together, the 30 somethings, 40 something.
But if we can intentionally planour communities or events or
whatever it might be so that there's more of a
intergenerational focus than that cross contamination, what
(51:10):
call it is going to happen. So the question that we ask of
all our guests, what are you doing personally to age well
besides the Pilates and the ballet?
Yeah, that's what I want to say.You know what, I think I'm just
trying to listen more and listento especially younger people and
(51:31):
understand what they're going through and that kind of that
concept of generativity. But if I can learn a new concept
or just the other day I actuallydiscovered AK Pop song that I
absolutely love. And I've been more of a 70s
music kind of girl. So just embracing other people's
(51:53):
chores and even beliefs and curiosities.
Again, I think it makes it brings joy to me to just find
that I've got something else in my head to think about.
My daughter is really into K pop.
I'm much more into the 70's rockmusic.
My son enjoys that a little bit more with me, but I got to enjoy
(52:15):
AK pop with her a bit more so. And she's really interested in
the Korean culture for some reason as well.
So we're planning a trip for next year.
She didn't get into a an exchange program.
And so we're like, well, it'd bea lot cheaper for me just to
take you to Korea. For I love that.
And just to make this. Take a trip out there next
(52:38):
summer. So that should be fun and help
me age well as well. Yeah, for sure.
I mean, why not? That's great.
Well. Becky, where can our listeners
and viewers find your book and how can they connect with you?
Do you have a website? Do you have social media other
than Facebook? Yeah, well, I'd love to have
(52:58):
people grab the book that Becky Blue writes is my website and
then in the book is also on Amazon and Barnes and Noble.
Becky J Blue is my handle on Instagram.
I love to do stories there and have people tag me if they've
read my book. And yeah, I guess I am on
Facebook probably too much now. The big question is do you do
(53:21):
TikTok? I have not started TikTok, do
you do? That's how you connect.
No God I I could not do TikTok I.
Don't I just feel like it's a big a big black hole or
something, right? You know, I think sometimes
somebody will send me some videos and I'm like, what is
this? No I don't do TikTok.
So, looking forward, how do you hope our cultural understanding
(53:44):
of aging will evolve? I just hope it becomes a non
issue. Let's just get the word out of
our vernacular. Yeah, because, and that kind of
goes back to that Teddick, to talk about you're never too
young to choose how to age. I mean, because obviously from
day one when you're born, you'restarting to age from a
biological standpoint. But I don't know why it's such a
(54:04):
big deal. I don't either.
I think, you know, maybe in 10 years you and I won't have
anything to talk about with thistopic and we're just going to
have to find something else we're really into like K pop or
something. I don't.
Know, there you go. We'll still be doing K pop
dances and stuff like that as we're in our 80s.
Exactly. No, I really, I'm very hopeful.
(54:25):
I think it's going to look so much different in the next
decade. Oh, that's good.
So, well, this has been a fascinating conversation.
I think we could just keep going.
I wish you all the best with thebook and with your work.
And yeah, keep doing what you'redoing and keep aging well.
(54:45):
Thanks so much. And I'm going to go watch Elf
and look for your dad in that music thing he appreciate.
Great story. Yeah.
OK. All right, good.
Thanks so much for your time, Jeff.
Great interview. Thank you.
Thank you for listening. I hope you benefited from
today's podcast and until next time, keep aging well.
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