Rehumanizing Health: Arthur Corvin Powells on AI, Intention, and Conscious Connection | Ep. 290 - The Aging Well Podcast

Episode Transcript
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(00:03):
In a world designed for instant gratification, what if
technology could help us slow down?
Help us become more intentional,more conscious, more human?
Welcome to the Aging Wall Podcast where we explore the
science stories and strategies that help us live longer,
healthier and more purposeful lives.
I'm your host, Doctor Jeff Armstrong, an exercise

(00:23):
physiologist with a passion for making science simple and life
better as we age. With my Co host Corbin Bruton.
Our guest Arthur Corbin Powells isn't just thinking about the
future of tech, he's building it.
From his time in basement mode to his launch of Anti Gray,
Arthur's work flips the script on modern technology.

(00:44):
He's here to talk about how AI intention and balance can change
not just how we age, but how we live.
This is a conversation about reclaiming our humanity, one
thoughtful choice at a time. Let's talk about aging well.
Arthur, welcome to the Aging Well podcast.
Let's just begin by having you tell us a little bit about your

(01:05):
back story. Tell us about yourself and how
you managed to go from hair to AI and aging well.
And and vice versa. I'm I'm a proud triple college
dropout. So I was doing philosophy and
astrophysics NIT and I was really think I spent about 200%

(01:26):
of my teenage years coding and the, and the engineering.
And then I just found out that there's things like break
dancing and hip hop and boxing. And I took a bit of a break.
And when I, when I, when I actually went back to
university, I realized that something I want to do is to
build. And then that's what I did.
I, I kind of had a choice to go to a bank, to a hedge fund and

(01:48):
then then to the bank again. And I decided that's not for me.
So I spent my 20s trying to figure out the way things work,
you know, working full time, studying full time.
And obviously I got back to my roots, which is engineering and
1st principles thinking. Really what is the world made of
and what can help me understand that?
And what kind of business can you do with that?
Because we live in a capital society.

(02:09):
So you want to make sure that the effort is saved in a
database money. And if you want to know about
health, well, I've just always been sort of, you know, when you
work 80 hour weeks and you barely sleep, one thing you
notice is that you want to maximize everything about
yourself. So body minded and so on.
And like I said, I did a lot of sports, but I never wanted to,

(02:30):
you know, when you go almost pro, you have a lot of folks
around you who are like, there are these things you can take,
you know, performance enhancers and whatnot.
They can really help. But that was never for me
because I never like to risk. So I got into working with some
labs really in my, I guess mid, mid to late 20s.
I'm 37 now. And for the last, yeah, 10 years

(02:53):
I was touching base with as manyresearchers and scientists as I
could. And by about I think six years
ago, it was clear that if you really want to go through and
there's about 70 billion ish different nutrients, really if
you really want to go through all of them, you know, no human
can do it. So this is where AI really comes

(03:13):
in, AI researchers. And lately for the last year and
a half, it's all about, you know, agents doing all of the
work in the background and understanding what works.
And now we're training our own system.
So that's really exciting. We actually have a, a
supercomputer center outside of Chicago that I just met with the
representatives of I guess a month or two ago.
Time flies. So they're, they're building up
and, you know, they're very kindto give us their space.

(03:35):
So that's the next step. We, you know, as you know, we
just launched hair labs, the first ever nutraceutical that
prevents hair grain based on thelatest research just shown in
February. And we put it all together.
And the next step are our larger, we call them vital labs
for now, we consolidate all different labs to to try to use
nature and AI to come up with real age reversal.

(03:57):
It's certainly possible. You know, nature does it in
different animals. It's just with with humans, we
have a lot of those senescent cells.
I think for evolution is just easier for us all to die.
And I say I'm not sure about that.
Well, that's my short story. Yeah, let's talk about those AI
solutions. So we've heard you say that Anti
Gray is more than about air health, it's about an effort and

(04:19):
intention. Do you think you could unpack
that for us? Well, look, I don't want to hurt
anybody's feelings, but if I'm being blunt, like really
truthful, most so-called nutriceuticals or supplements.
If you want to know, like I said, I've been studying this a
lot. It's just marketing.
So it's, it's the same old multivitamins repackaged and, you
know, better packaging, better presentation, better models, but

(04:42):
I don't think they, they really do things.
We have this motto in my companies.
And you know, like I said, this is actually one of my first
appearances because we've sort of been in in basement mode for
about 10 years, over 10 years. We really wanted to know our
stuff before we emerge. And our motto is very simple.
It's S to Quan Videti, which is Latin, and it means to be rather
than to seem. So you really need to find the

(05:04):
right people to put in the righteffort and to really suss out
the solution. I guess what I'm saying is, you
know, in business and capitalism, there's always low
hanging fruit. And this is, by the way, very,
very much to do with how AI works as well.
You know, you can always find a way to optimize for the
instantly gratifying solution. In business, it's the same.
You can always find an easy solution and you can compete,

(05:25):
you know, a head to head, neck to neck and you both die.
I think it's worth putting in the effort to look for the
delayed gratification to look for, for things that really
work. While I was dropping out of
college three times, I, I reallygot into the study of
thermodynamics and going back really to the basics of, you
know, why is, is time sort of asymmetric even though the laws

(05:47):
of physics make it symmetric? How is it different from, you
know, the spatial dimensions and, and the answer is
thermodynamics. There is a dynamic there, there
is a directed dynamic of the universe.
And if you unpack that into how things work, basically you put
in the right effort for the right 'cause instead of fighting
for the instant solutions and you get innovation.
So there's a, there's a lot of mathematics behind it as well.

(06:09):
I don't know if you guys are into this stuff, but there's a
very nice scientist, Stephen Wolfram, and he has this concept
of computational irreducibility.So of all the possible systems
and rules, you have to find the one that leads to innovation.
And to do that, you basically have to go through as many of
the ones that fail as possible. And that's the nature of effort.
And large companies, what they do is they just find one rule

(06:29):
that brings in some money and they continue iterating until
they collapse. Very similar to what AI does in
the space of solutions. It's an algorithm called the
gradient descent. It finds a local optimum and it
keeps keeps digging and digging and digging and then it just
fizzles out. So it's very hard.
Basically what I'm saying is theuniverse is made of the same
thing. And what you do in business,
what you do in AI, what you do anywhere really has to do with

(06:51):
the crazy effort for for a crazy'cause that might just work, but
probably won't. Makes a lot of sense.
Well, let's talk some tech. Most tech rewards speed and
scrolling. Why did you choose to design
tech that tends to slow people down?
Yeah, I mean, my, my entire, let's not call it, you know, age
reversal. I just call it humanity
Extension is just a side hustle.So it's something which is very

(07:14):
important to me. I really want to stay young.
I want my team to be as as healthy as possible.
But this is just a question of the body.
And I think the most important question, today's the question
of the mind. I think the statistics are here
in the West actually more so in the US, 35 ish percent of people
are clinically depressed. It's much higher with women and

(07:35):
young kids. And I don't know, like shouldn't
we kind of be a bit concerned about the fact that, you know, 4
out of 10 are literally just depressed and we live in the
society and shouldn't we really get down to the basics of why it
happens? And there you go.
It's again, the, if you start really from first principles and
you understand what it means needs to create knowledge to

(07:57):
create systems or, or patterns that persevere.
Perseverance itself is, is a function of time.
So what you need to do is you need to, to, to incentivize
people to pursue a goal which isa bit further away.
And this gives them a way to test if what they're building is
actually going to persevere. I mean, I, I actually call this
concept concept beauty, you know, something that resonates

(08:17):
through time and space, something that connects people
together and, and so on and so forth.
And what we have instead is technology such as X, you know,
ex Twitter and, and others, which are those low hanging
fruit. And they are my main kind of
enemy. Not, not just aging.
Aging is like I said, something that keeps the body healthy
while we fight this, which is just a giant lizard brain.

(08:39):
Just as evolution created animals first before the beings,
you know, we, we online have created sort of an animalizing
AI right now. And, and I always find it funny
that right now everybody's so upfrom they're afraid of AI taking
jobs or something like this, whereas I look at it very
different. I look at AI right now
optimizing away humanity that was possible in smaller

(09:00):
societies, but is kind of impossible today.
So with a very high bandwidth, which we have with, you know,
with 5G, obviously Wi-Fi soon with 6G, information exchange
between minds will soon reach the level of information
exchange between unscaled neurons.
Like imagine we we're all connected the same way as your
thoughts are connected in your head, right?

(09:21):
So what what the real trouble is, is today we're kind of
creating the Super Organism and we're creating it based on our
lizard brains, you know, based on fears and based on grouping
ourselves by genetic strategies by those like us and, you know,
fighting against online at leastthose who are unlike us.
So all of this to me is like literally as big a challenge as

(09:43):
when Homo sapiens was just emerging from life.
You know, is there going to be civilization with these new
beings or are they going to staysmart but uncivilized?
You know, one may argue like dolphins or or other large
brain, the creatures that could form societies but don't.
And that's where where I think AI is taking us.
I think it's kind of optimizing away the layer that was built

(10:04):
for smaller societies. And we throw AI as a tertiary
cognitive layer on top of our mind.
It crushes the frontal cortex and attaches to the lizard
brain. And that's where we're really
fighting. And yeah, we we are building
some I think a bit a bit maybe abit too, too crazy social media
attack. But everybody tells me I'm too
optimistic. But we spend the last also six

(10:24):
years, really the last six yearsvery much working on this
technology. And when, when Che GPT and you
know, and so on arrived in the scene that accelerated the whole
thing. So we will be coming out with
some products as soon as I'd saylate August for some social
media that incentivizes you sharing your real content and
connected to a giant ecosystem of what I call post AI

(10:47):
professions, you know, so we will have social media for
mostly education and hospitalityand disrupting charity as we
know it by connecting people peer-to-peer.
So we're, we're it's a very ambitious project and I wasn't
sure I should actually tell you about this.
I'm here to talk about hair. I'm just joking.
Whatever you guys want to know. It's it's been a wild ride
really over over the last six years.

(11:08):
So I'm very excited to share some parts of it.
You know, we've been, we've beenworking through we, we, we hired
and fired about 20,000 people trying, trying to find the best.
And we run something called Project Ukraine.
Also even before the war over there, we were looking for, for
folks in parts of the world to try to bring on.
And yeah, I think soon, soon we will see universe willing good
results. Well.

(11:28):
I I love your passion, right? It's, yeah, you're really
passionate about this. So let's, let's keep playing off
of it a little bit. You had mentioned that longevity
isn't about living longer, it's about living better.
So how do you see technology supporting that kind of a shift?
Yeah. Yeah, it's, you know, life, life
isn't about life extension. Life is about health extension.

(11:51):
You really want to make sure you're the healthiest.
But once again, to bring it back, you know, imagine yourself
being very healthy. And we have a lot of those
people in the world and, and, and depressed at the same time.
So to me, it's, it's, it's not just health extension per SE.
It's, I mean, dare I say it, happiness extension once again,
you know, so we are building theactual solutions.
We have ITIL labs, we have hair labs started with anti Gray.

(12:13):
It's we have something right nowin development called anti
apathy. One point O which is very funny.
And we're we're running all of these agents to try to
understand what kind of nutrients can actually naturally
motivate you to be more sort of like life loving without going
into drugs and and all the rest of it.
But yeah, what we used to have, you know, as as humanity when we

(12:34):
were forming. I don't know if you guys know
this concept called Dunbar's number, but basically all of us
can naturally connect to about about 150 or 200 other humans,
you know, like every animal has a pack and, and there's enough
knowledge inside our genes to beable to connect to a certain
number. So at that point, we, you know,
we are kind of at our base standard happiness level.

(12:56):
And anything beyond that in humanity's case, required more
than just genetic knowledge, required cultural knowledge, you
know, like what, what, what Richard Dawkins called memes 40
years ago. Now, of course memes are finding
something online, but you, you need to create those things that
bring us together, right? But but also with that, the
larger the society becomes, the harder it is to constantly

(13:16):
create new and new means, new culture.
And that culture by the way, hasto reflect more and more truth.
Hence I'm very much not anti religious because you know
implicitly there is a lot of truth in bringing people
together. However, you know you really
can. But today I think that mechanism
once again is breaking. So for me, longevity would be
how long can you find meaning, you know, to, to really kind of

(13:39):
have this, you know, I personally have a lot of drive
and I feel motivated doing what I do.
I think there is a solution to integrating tech in our lives,
but I don't think everybody should be a crazy entrepreneur.
I mean, I work, you know, 14 hour days.
I haven't had a break since February 22nd, 2022.
So that's not for everybody there.
There has to be meaning to theirlives.

(14:00):
And you know, we we have to constantly create new things,
art, new sports, new whatever, based on stable societies.
For that we need good social media, you know, actually social
media that that's why we're working on all of these media
projects to bring mental health to people, good physical health.
That's why we're working on hairlabs, vital labs and all the
rest of them. And then, you know, where does

(14:20):
meaning come from? You know, how do we build those
communities? And we have two projects towards
that. And like I said, they are sort
of, they will collect the data from our social media to suggest
people meeting offline and then kind of frending and dating at
the same time based on really their achievements in life.
So we're working full steam ahead.
We're really trying. But this, this is just the

(14:42):
beginning. And we'll take obviously people
much smarter than me to to bringit all together, preferably
somebody who hasn't dropped out thrice from college.
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(15:04):
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Thank you. And now back to the podcast.
So it sounds like you're trying to put the social back in social
media. What does Aging Well mean to you

(15:26):
personally and and how has your thinking on it evolved since
your kind of basement mode years?
And you know, when I, the reasonI went into the basement is that
I actually thought I had life figured out.
I was sort of helping organize some hedge funds and doing a lot
of reading and I wanted to become a writer, you know, just
just to sit down. I think I must have read every
single like main, I don't know, like 500 good books in my 20s.

(15:49):
And I thought, okay, this is it.I know, I know what everything
is made of. And, and then it kind of all
came crashing down when I noticed that all of the things
that I sort of found weird and others are, are just here within
me, you know, all of those properties which are in the end
destructive. So, so in order to really figure
it out, I realized that I need to bring bring a lot of

(16:10):
different people together and build some, some very different
things. Now, as far as aging goes, there
is something called the default.Well, let me take a step back.
Actually, I've been thinking a lot about this and I sort of
identify four different, let's say 4 different slices of our
process, you see. So a human being, like any

(16:31):
knowledge creating system has very roughly 4/4 slices.
I, I call them four, four steps in the spiral, you know, so we
go in a circle, then you create something new that fences
spiral. And this is the work of my
Gilchrist, of course, and, and others.
And we have the 444 stages. The first one would be sort of
like a startup. You know, you're a baby, you're
just iterating, you're playing, you're, you're learning how to

(16:52):
learn. Then you find something and
you're a teenager, you're tryingto crystallize it and scale and
hopefully it works. Then you become stable and you
are a being and you know, you are kind of this, this resonant
dynamic and then you want to unite with another being to
create something truly innovative.
And you see this in business andin and in animals and in other,
I mean, art forms everywhere. You know, first you, you, you,

(17:14):
you're a start up, then you're ascale up, then your business,
then you're a platform, you're alittle, you're an egg, you move
on to being a butterfly and thencreating, creating and so on.
So at each of these 4 stages I think we are quite different and
in humans we don't quite see a cocoon becoming a butterfly.
The stage separation is much clearer in different systems,

(17:34):
but in us we have something called the default mode network
where this is a very malleable part of the, of the mind, which
matures by about 25. And this is where the stage of
becoming stops. And by this time, this is quite
important that you are are already not ossified.
So you, you know, if you want toage better after 25, it's very
important to have good educationbefore 25.

(17:55):
It's very hard to get it after. And This is why I was just like
randomly lucky that I sort of dropped out and found some
mentors and became as dynamic asI could before 25.
So what what I'm saying is I really separate kind of aging is
what, what you do to age well and then actually what you do
when you do age well, when you do age well, you need those
nutrients. When you do age well, you need
proper connections with community, proper projects and

(18:16):
so on. But it's also very, very
important to, to really be bluntabout this.
If you are not educated to be dynamic, then aging well is, is
already a much, much tougher concept.
So that's why we're building really everything we can from
nutrients for actual aging to toeducational social media.
Right now we're developing something in our company called
Education Studios, something that has, we call them

(18:40):
imaginements for little kids, like imaginary monsters.
But basically they are agentic, let's say virtual tutors that
grow together with children. And they are very, they are
archetypical, you know, So if you read a good story, the Bible
of the Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter, you always have a set of
different, different characters.You usually relate to one of
them, but they always work as a group.

(19:01):
So this is kind of like how human genetic strategies
separate. And then if you bring them
together, they, they are the, you know, the unification of the
third stage of the spiral to, toget to the innovative stage to
create some novel. So we are, we are mimicking this
and creating this interactive world where you can discover
these tutors. They all fall into these
archetypes and together they, they live sort of with you.

(19:22):
They always motivate you to explore the offline, just the
online, they post on the social media and they ensure hopefully
you know your education up untilabout this, this time.
They really, they are there to learn about you to, to help you
learn and then to keep you as dynamic as possible until 25.
So it's, it's a very difficult concept indeed.

(19:43):
I think. I, I want to apologize if
there's any self history in whatI'm saying.
I've just been thinking a lot about this and it probably
doesn't quite make too much sense, but but what I'm saying
is there's, there's really a lotof things to solve if we look
reality in in the face and we'relike, everybody's depressed.
Humans kind of don't like each other for some reason that much
anymore. Like what are the major
solutions? And I, I have to, you know, gosh

(20:05):
darn figure it out so that so. So that's the plan and only then
we we can talk about really whatage needs, you know, Co living
happily together, right, first and foremost.
So yeah, something like. This.
So if AI is a tool that could help make the people better and
not just machine smarter, what the heck does that look like in
practice? Yeah, You know, it's, it's just

(20:27):
like we can talk about this in the terms of today, but it's
like generals always fighting the last war, you know, so First
World War, the French show up with their beautiful hats and,
you know, the the muskets and the horses and all the rest of
it. And they're just over overrun.
So I, I worry that it's kind of like it's one of those unknown
unknowns. You know, we, we can try to

(20:48):
model it and we can say, well, you know, like here we have
democracy, we have capitalism and you know, what is that going
to look like? But then you ask yourself, so
hold on a second, like democracyand capitalism are great
systems, but they weren't reallypossible 2000 years ago, for
example, in the Roman Empire. Why?
Because the Romans, you know, the way the signal travelled in
the Roman Empire was at a speed of a horse.
So how would you even vote in the Roman Empire?

(21:10):
So like all of these systems arejust a function of, of what we
have today. And in a world where everybody,
you know, it is coming that we will have neural link or
something similar in our minds, right?
So everything, everything is connected where we are all both
individuals and one big unit. My, my thing is once again, this
whole unit needs to somehow keepincentivizing delayed

(21:31):
ratification because we know from all of the research and so
on, this is the main thing for the development of children.
And we are, I think, approachingthe same epistemological leap as
we did when we went from, you know, monkeys to humans.
There was no culture. And then there's culture just
compared the two differences, you know, like if we are monkeys
hanging out 300,000 years ago, we're like, So what is that

(21:51):
prefrontal cortex going to look like, right.
Like is it going to help us eat more bananas or something like
that? And I like, no, there's hip hop
and jazz and, you know, HD porn flying around, you know, in the
ether basically all of a sudden,like if you look at Earth kind
of it's, it's a very funny thing.
So I think it's just an incredible unknown, unknown for

(22:11):
which to be prepared. We need to be as stable as
possible. So what is as stable as
possible? So I've been really thinking a
lot about this as well. And I tried to, with the team,
identify the moments in our history where we had sort of
some unity, you know, the pick of the Roman Empire, maybe some
aspects of the Victorian Britain, the Bella Palkin in
France, maybe fortunately for just a slice of the population,

(22:33):
the 50s in America, maybe pre First World War as well in the
UK, I'd say like early 90s afterthe Cold War was won, right?
So you find like, what are the moments when people become
stable enough? I think those are the moments of
continual optimism and creation of some sort of beauty.
You would see it in architectureand music.
Basically the art would be wouldbe optimistic, right?

(22:53):
Like the news wouldn't sound like it's doom and gloom all the
time. So there should be something you
should switch on the TV and you should kind of feel the good
vibes. You should talk to people and
not worry that they they look for a catch, you know, like
basically something needs to look like Frank Capra movie.
So how do we get to that? That that's my that's my thing.
Like how do we bring people together?
How do we motivate them online to be at their best?

(23:16):
Not to just what's the word, youknow, if you go on X right now,
it's not even that the people are trying to get attention.
They're trying to get you to, well, I, I, I want to say bring,
bring you down, but they kind ofwant you to feel as bad as they
do. Sort of.
They're like, I'm upset. You must be upset.
And that's a very bad thing to promulgate.
And if you go right now to, to most art galleries, what you see

(23:37):
aren't solutions anymore, for which I think art was really
the, the whole point. I think you see problems.
I think people use art to show, well, I'm, I'm sad.
Here's here's my sadness in art,whereas before they were like,
Hey, people are sad, but here I'm converting it into this
solution. So I think we need to build
technology because it's always technology.
Remember with Martin Luther, technology was printing the

(24:02):
books and everything led to really questioning the Catholic
Church. So it's always technology.
It always leads to 1st, this moment of potential destruction.
You know, entropy goes up, the second law of thermodynamics,
and then we have to lower it andcreate knowledge along the way.
And for this we need the healthiest society, the most
united society, even though of course, you know, with different
opinions, but united with an overarching idea.

(24:25):
Like everybody was always of different ideas.
Christianity united them. Then some optimism, scientific
optimism, really united people in the early 20th century.
Have you guys seen the speech byCharlie when he was kind of
playing Hitler basically in thismovie?
I think the great dictator. So he just gives a speech 100
years ago or whatever, which is impossible to picture today or
you know, as Peter Thiel always says, like whom are we actually

(24:47):
going to give a ticker tape parade in New York without
upsetting anybody? Like who is it can identify one
person today, right? So I think to, to solve all of
these things isn't to envisage the future, but to, to stabilize
dynamically the present as much as we can.
So the future can fall on top and then stay there without
crushing everything. Because that happened before the

(25:07):
Romans, you know, destroy themselves through whatever
reasons. But they, they got so close to
the industrial revolution, they,and we only got back to that
level of development after about1 1/2 thousand years after their
collapse really. So that can certainly happen
now. You know, we have this AI
revolution coming. It falls on top of us, it can
crush us. And then we wait 1000 1/2 years,

(25:28):
we get a better society. Like you know, you can say the
Renaissance syrup was a better society in certain ways and then
it works. I don't know about you guys.
I'm trying to live longer but I don't want to live 1000 1/2
years to get to that point with good hair or without it.
I'm past living with hair period, so that's.
Why? We're happy to bring it back.
Yeah, no. Oh, guys.

(25:50):
No, no, no. You know that there are like,
there are actual chemical solutions for it, but they're
just there. They burn your body so.
But the truth is, like nature gives us so much, you know, all
of the antibiotics are just fungi grown underground, right?
So nature has evolved over 4 1/2billion years to provide pretty
much everything. We're just so bad at finding it.
That's what AI does. That's what we did with anti
Gray. We just went through all the

(26:10):
possible nutrients. We went through all of the
possible pathways in in graying and we just saw which nutrients
mixed with which stop each pathway.
And when the toll and was shown to do this one thing with stem
cells in February, you know, it reconnects two types of stem
cells. All we needed to ensure was that
we already have the entire pathway work for the human

(26:33):
follicular system to ensure thatthose stem cells work.
So basically you can do the samefor shedding because there is in
you already something that will grow the hair out.
And we will be working on this. Like I said, we have this
supercomputer that we are going to set up quite soon and I'd say
let's take a rain check. Give me about a year and if you
choose to no hats. But actually it looks good on

(26:55):
you guys. I don't know if you know this
actor, Jason Statham, He's a tough guy in British movies.
I don't want to see that guy with hair like he look here.
He looks like he needs to look, you know.
So it's not for everybody. I'm keeping mine for now, but
it's not for everybody. Yeah, you got great hair.
And I personally, I, yeah, I've been without hair for a while
and I kind of like getting up inthe morning, not having to Why,

(27:18):
you know, shampoo my hair, use conditioner and brush it and do
all that kind of stuff. I don't have to worry about
going out in the wind. So it works for me.
And yeah, I, I do love kind of the, the enthusiasm and the, the
optimism in all that you're doing.
You know, I'm kind of the same way where I, you know, I look at
the friction in our world, but Ialso look at the friction that

(27:42):
precedes any kind of big boost in evolution or any change in
society. I have to have that friction to
drive it. And I, I can see your optimism
in that, and I'm equally as optimistic.
But do you see AI as a tool thatcan help unlock more human
creativity? Because often, you know, we fear

(28:03):
that people are getting less creative because of AI.
Or are we at risk of letting it do the creative work for us to a
point where we're no longer engaging in that part of
ourselves? We're no longer creative.
Yeah, yeah, I do think a lot about this, but I think I have a
slightly different view and I haven't quite discussed it with
many people yet, but I'll try toshare it with you guys.

(28:23):
And by the way, sorry if it's a little loud here.
I'm just constantly between meetings, but I really wanted to
make sure that we connect today.Well, look, I think what the
mistake is now here I'm may be abit beyond all of the paychecks
I've seen, but look, you know, one of the things that blew my
mind as a very small kid and thereason I got into engineering

(28:45):
and coding. I was sitting there, I remember
I was looking at like a pint of milk or whatever I had on the
table. Think it was a liter.
I was in Europe and I I realized, you know, I was
reading a lot of Einstein at thetime and you know, just
primitive stuff as kids do. But you know, E equals MC
squared, right? So you go like the mass of this
is 1, whatever kilo it was, C ^2is like this giant, giant number

(29:06):
now, like Colin. So inside this milk, there's
energy of this, this, this number.
I spend the next year studying nuclear physics and one of my
first actually engineering projects was to simulate nuclear
explosions. That means it's quite terrible
to say, but basically I, I triedto simulate what would happen if
if the entire energy of that milk carton is released over

(29:26):
London. And it was pretty devastating.
It's crazy, right? So I realized there's all this
energy trapped everywhere. I mean, you know, everybody
knows, but to me it's still kindof mind blowing.
Like we are all just energy. We just crush together and how
they play. So so we discovered this energy
100 years ago with Einstein and the rest of them and of course
Oppenheimer. I could never finish the movie
by the way. It was just very, very bored. 3
hours up. But anyway, so then then she

(29:48):
helped unleash it and here we go.
So we found the fact that everything is kind of made of
energy. I don't know if it's interesting
to you guys, but what's also mind blowing is that if you put
all the energy of the universe together, it actually cancels
out because the positive and thenegative energy of the universe
are sort of equal by the latest measurements.
So we also came from zero, whichwas a bit weird.
So anyway, so so everything is made of energy.
What AI to me is right now using, you know, the simple

(30:10):
mechanism of the transformer with sufficient number of
layers. I was shocked by it because I
was studying and all the rest ofit.
I was shocked that using a transformer, which as you
probably know, gentlemen, nobodyreally understands how it works.
It's called the black box problem.
We discovered the fact that alsothe universe is made out of
knowledge. So it's not just that the
universe has energy, it also haspatterns that that they get
other patterns that you know, knowledge leading to knowledge.

(30:32):
So you can, you can see the nextstep based on the previous step.
That's what Chachibuti does. It takes gives you the next
token, which is not converted into words or a series, so on
and so forth. So the world is ultimately made
of energy and knowledge. Knowledge packages and
repackages energy as you go forward.
And this is again against the second law of thermodynamics.
And once again, I'm sorry if I'mbeing a bit detailed here, but

(30:54):
the point is this, we are talking about AI as if it's a
thing in a vacuum. I think AI is just a tertiary
portal layer that cannot exist without our lizard brain and the
prefrontal cortex. Not an earnest.
I think it falls down on us. We don't have requisite cultural
stability. I think if it crashes the
prefrontal cortex, everything isover.
I can see those scenarios. I can see basically AI coming as

(31:17):
an optimizer for the lizard brain.
It creates more and more divergent social media,
ultimately gives us these pleasurable 3D worlds with
memory erasure, whatever. You know, all of this is
possible with neural links in everybody's minds.
And you can see how difficult itis to take a phone away from a
baby. Now imagine switching off a
thing inside their mind, you know, crazy enough to connect
it. But let's say some people would
be and more and more would be and then everybody's living in

(31:38):
this matrix. And but but unlike the matrix,
you know, your memory is constantly erased and you're
just happy. And AI keeps opposing this
whilst, and I think this will bevery important, if your loser
brain is still lives, this is where the drive comes from
because we are all as animals competitive.
I don't think AI has a competitive thing grained into
it. In fact, I don't think it's

(31:58):
possible without 4 billion yearsof evolution to create all of
the knowledge which you know, all of life already has, You
know, the philosophers call willpower or whatever.
So this thing I don't see being simulated in AI and I don't care
what they say. I've spoken and I've checked
everybody. We really don't have an
understanding of the nature of effort.
This is what the 1st layer givesus.

(32:19):
This is what the animal brain gives us.
So it's possible for a guy to sit on top of this with us sort
of being the driving force for it to continue optimizing
everything. But there is total emptiness and
we're just living in a 3D World,you know, imagine again, pure
sexual pleasure, pure everythingelse that we need.
Video games. I'll tell you something I'm
doing on the side. It's a company, it's a project

(32:40):
called Circle dot Help. Like I said, I think that's also
very important to build where weconnect people in need to people
who can help them. And I just see a lot of folks
who are not very happy with, with life at all.
Again, you know, 40% depressed, but more just very spiritual
loss. And some of them are just
saying, look, dude, all I want is just for AI to come and take
me away to this virtual world. And I cannot really oblige that.

(33:02):
I think if we keep our profound cortex and, and the sense of
beauty, we can exist both in theoffline and the online and also
be not just a driving force for AI to optimize for anything, but
also would be the driving force through the profound cortex for
AI to create beauty. And I, I don't think I can do it
without us. I think we are the effort
providers at the loser brain andthe beauty providers at the

(33:25):
human brain, the profound cortex.
So we need to be, that's why I call it humanity extension.
We need to be as human as possible.
And I think creativity ipso facto is not possible without
both of these, without being, again, too pretentious according
to Wolfram. And mathematically, it's true,
you can have millions of different ways of progressing
from one state of time to another, but only very rare

(33:49):
rules lead to innovation. So you can see it anywhere in
something called the cellular automata, simple systems
anywhere from one, one step to another.
It's very hard to identify what's going to create
innovation. And it's not just to do with
chaos, stereo, quantum mechanics, it's an it's an
intrinsic property of the universe.
You have to find those rules that scale to something
meaningful. And humans only ask and identify

(34:11):
what meaning is, because we are a combination of both animal and
you know, that profound cortex justifies all the things we do,
but in a beautiful way, in a way.
So AI cannot have that. It can only coexist.
It can only extend us or overpower the profound cortex
and optimize us away. So I know this is a very long
winded way of saying sort of that AI without us.

(34:34):
You know, actually Einstein had this thing.
I think I'm going to mangle it. But he said something like this
religion without science is, I don't remember what it was, you
know, like moot and science without religion is lame,
meaning, you know, lame in an old sense way, like lame duck so
disabled. So I think it's the same with AI
and us. We just have to integrate in a
way that makes sense, makes sense to to to the laws of the
universe, if you will. So I see more creativity.

(34:57):
I see beauty, which we cannot even envisage the next layer.
You know, like you can picture jazz in the 16th century.
Can you guys imagine like picturing?
And I don't look like it now, but I came from sort of like the
street culture be a Maxine breakdancing and all the rest of it.
That's beautiful when you hang out as a kid.
But you cannot explain that to Shakespeare, right?
Like she would be shocked. So that's, that's what the
future is. We will find what the next

(35:19):
street culture of AI is, or we will just perish into the
virtual reality of useless pleasure.
So I guess what does that look like?
Well, like what role do you think AI might play in enhancing
self-awareness, focus, and even spiritual consciousness?
Yeah, I think I have an answer to this.

(35:39):
So very simple. I mean, where do we begin?
A very simple thing. Like why is gold more expensive
than silver? It's it's more, you know, it's
more rare. Diamonds are rare, better yet,
you know, and until we start mining asteroids.
So that's the whole concept of Bitcoin, right?
It ensures, it ensures mathematical uniqueness, right?
So Bitcoin cannot be functionable, it cannot be

(36:00):
replicated. So that's why it stores value.
Basically humans, or let's startwith humans, we cling on to
anything unique to store value. And then if you really look
around, you know, and you study infinities, the only thing we
know of which is arguably infinite is the combination
within our genes, which is wild to say.
But really there used to be giant numbers attached to it

(36:22):
first. But then we realized there's
more and more and more to it. And now we're kind of like, we
don't even know if there is a limit.
So technically the only thing you need in the universe that we
know, which is not functionable is us.
And you know, people say, hey, you go far enough in the
universe, you know, the atoms will repeat, there will be
somebody just like you. Well, hold on a second.
There will be a different time and space coordinates.
So even that is still not not asas you know, identical to you.

(36:45):
Basically what I'm saying is each and every human being is
unique. So we start 300,000 years ago.
All human beings are ordered into Dunbar style societies
where there's one chief, 150 people around him, basically his
friends, vertical hierarchy. Everybody knows their place and
everybody does the same thing, right, Like and forth, you do
this, you do that. There's basically, I don't know,

(37:05):
however many archetypes and that's however many things
humans can do. We go to today.
And the further we go in civilization, the more of these
spirals of knowledge are createdand the memes are built on top
of memes, the more different people can express their
uniqueness. You know, you know, like through
trials and tribulations of of teenage years, especially we, we
have created so many unique things over the last few years,

(37:27):
like it's unbelievable. So what I think ultimately AI
will do if we are successful, which is a very tall order, but
basically forget about the simulation hypothesis or not,
everybody will be a hero of their own movie.
Everybody will be able to take the uniqueness of their
position, their genetics and their, let's say, coincidences
of being and turn that into something unique like

(37:47):
extrapolate this to the to the rest of the world.
Everybody will create ultimately, you know, in the
limit genes plus beams plus AI would would would go from from
AI all the way down to the genes, take that uniqueness and
bring it about and then create our own little universes.
And I think this will happen using virtual technology.
Certainly everybody will have some unique expression of the

(38:09):
universe. How this is going maybe like
maybe thousands of years, maybe hundreds.
I personally think this will happen around 20 fifties, but I
don't know why I tell you. But I mean, what I'm saying is
really the future is so far beyond what I even read in
science fiction. Imagine all of us finding, you
know, all of us being the Neo ofof our own matrix.
So kind of something like this in a way.

(38:30):
You're really blowing my mind here.
So much to think about and so much to the ponder as we're
going through this because I mean, we're so much in line in
terms of just kind of the intersection between the
spiritual, the physical and the philosophical.
It's all kind of coming togetherhere and I'm trying to really
get ahead around it. This is probably going to be one

(38:51):
of those podcasts that I hope our guests will have to listen
to a couple times and really think about it over that period
of time and and kind of see where it's taking them.
Next question I kind of had was,you know, when we look at the
Internet, that's something that was meant to connect us.
And yet we are more divided now than ever.
I mean, I, I've never seen in my62 years of society more divided

(39:13):
than we currently are. What?
What do you think went wrong andhow do we go about course
correcting that? Right, Well, that that is what
I'm trying to answer with this project that we're running
called Ruliad, which which brings people together for
delayed. I have an answer to this, but I
don't think if I'm, if I completely explicitly explain
it, I think it would be too offensive in a way, because we,

(39:35):
we are all implicit beings, you know, we learn through
storytelling and certain things like certain certainties are
just your own and you kind of hurt other people who, who can't
agree with this. But in a, in a basic way, the
Internet is a great idea until the bandwidth becomes large
enough for the, let's put it this way, technology was
basically an outcome of the evolutionary mechanism of making

(39:58):
things easier for us. You know, it's easier to kill
somebody with a stick with a gun, with a nuke.
So we evolve and we create technology as a way to optimize
away effort. And you know, in the beginning
it's great because it leads to more art and more effort.
But then you optimize the final effort of any activity, right?
So what technology to me looks like at the stage of an Internet
of social media where everybody's connected with

(40:20):
pictures and images and so on? Look, can I, can I just say
something which is outrageous, but you know, a good
approximation of it. But you know, we're all guys
here. I'm just going to say something
which is not true. But let's run a thought
experiment. Let's pretend we're all a little
younger. You know, we are very stupid 18
year olds or let's say 20 year olds and we're in Europe and we
all go out for a drink and we are just, we're scoundrels.

(40:41):
We are good for nothing, whatever.
But you know, we found some goodsuits and we want to show off.
And there's like a lot of hot girls there, you know, or
whatever your, your flavor of coffee.
But let's say a lot of hot girlsand and I got you guys and we've
got five other guys and we're like, you know, you guys all
have girlfriends. I'm the loser here.
I literally my mom in my basement and so on.
Guys, can you do me an effort? Just pretend like I'm some big

(41:01):
shot in front of these girls. I don't know if this ever
happened to you. It happened to some friends of
mine, I hear allegedly. So we we go to this club and
then they're like, yeah, dude, you're such a big deal.
Where's your Ferrari and whatever.
And I take this girl home and one night stand.
I don't care, right? Because I'm a kid.
So imagine, if you will, that not not this, but something
similar with an ability for people to implicitly minimize

(41:24):
effort would be happening with high enough bandwidth.
A lot of people who are kind of lazy would have levers of power
very implicitly. Not explicitly, but their
implicit will would be to optimize away effort for
everything, for courtship, for behavior of any sort of a lady
or a gentleman towards one another.
And we can see it online, you know, online people all of a
sudden right now it's allowed byby society, not by an

(41:47):
individual. It's bottom up society right now
allows all sorts of communication online.
Now forget about all of the animalism, right?
So I think in in a way this giant hive mind when it first
connects again connects our lizard brain so we can optimize
away the effort. Basically make, you know, low
hanging fruit is lying, creatingthings which are untrue.

(42:07):
Now, if you put enough effort, eventually the storylines you
create are true. But you, you begin as a teenager
by or as a kid, you know, you just you lie your way out of
certain things. You fake it till you make it
right now online is basically faking it.
I honestly think that there's a lot of implicit knowledge
creation which comes together tolie your way to optimize certain
things. You know, if you go to LinkedIn,
social media, anything, people are kind of presenting fakery

(42:29):
things which aren't real. And when you have a lot of
untruths put together, this is, This is why, you know,
everything is upsetting to everybody.
If I have FOMO every time I openmy Instagram, because
everybody's naked and happy and I'm dressed up and, and, and
working 14 hours a day, I'm like, Hey, my life sucks.
But their lives aren't like that.

(42:50):
So this is a very simple example.
But basically, again, it's a, it's, it's a way to incentivize
fakery over makery. There is not truth in, in what's
happening online. And when you are fed nonsense
all the time, you know, nonsenseis, is not something which
agrees with many stomachs. So we have to persevere through
this, just like with any technological revolution.

(43:10):
You know, if you read Dickens, you're like, whoa, stop
industrial revolution. It's terrible.
It's true. I don't want to be a chimney
sweep, but I'm happy right now that there's a car I can get
into, you know, an Uber myself away somewhere nice and cool,
right? So, so this, this is kind of
where we are right now. The Internet has created a
monster which I think optimizes a way again truth, because

(43:31):
everybody's so interconnected that implicitly we create
untruths that make things simpler.
I think I don't remember the I think I remember the name.
There was a great writer and economist book called Spent with
a T at the end, and I think he was the one really promulgating
this notion of evolution, optimizing effort away in the

(43:52):
end. And this is where we find
ourselves in right now. A lot of societies are trying to
form themselves around the notion that effort bad, nothing
good. You know, Gen.
Z, I'm a millennial. We're crazy.
So yeah, we have to persevere through this, push for more
beauty, you know, using AI or using the old fashioned profound
cortex. I'd say just ignore it, you

(44:14):
know, ignore the noise. Look for the signal using
technology, using again, unitiesof people just like we always
have always did. Everything came from pretty much
sorrow. You know, jazz really came as as
remnants of, you know, creating beauty out of her slavery.
And then really a lot of unfairness.

(44:35):
A lot of Russian culture, you know, or Eastern European
culture more broadly, came from slavery, you know, served them
as well. I don't know if you know this,
but, you know, Eastern Europe, Russia had about five times as
many slaves even as America did in the 19th century.
And then all the beautiful musicand everything came.
So out of where we are right now, this beautiful next stage
can bloom. But what has happened is that we
have connected ourselves withoutcreating the record of culture

(44:57):
for it first. It's always happened in history,
you know, and we are all chimneysweeps.
Yeah, there's a lot. There's a lot to unpack with
that. OK, So with AI making things so
simple, you know, as you put it,like so simple that we're not
using our frontal lobe cortex for tapping into that more

(45:18):
primal and lizard brain, right? So we're not necessarily
thinking. And then with the age of the
Internet, everything, everythingaround us is a lie and
everything's so fake. It almost seems that as we
optimize AI, we're, we're optimizing it to hurt each
other. Do you think that it can be

(45:38):
redirected towards compassion orunderstanding?
Because even with your metaphor or your, your example of through
a hard time, beauty can come outof it.
Like do you see that coming withAI or do you think it's going to
be used as a tool to become so simple for like everyone's just

(45:59):
so simple that we're not, there's no, there's no pressure.
We're not thinking about anything.
Like what's what's your take on that?
Yeah, well, I think it's a bifurcation.
We can go one way or another. And like I said, if everything
was so hunky Dory that it alwaysworked out and beauty came out
of effort, then we wouldn't havethe collapse of the Roman Empire
and God knows how many empires before then.
You know, starting with Sumerians and maybe there are

(46:20):
those and you don't know about, you know, so one or the other
and it's very hard to say what is going to really determine
this. I'm very optimistic because
well, that's, that's just a goodway to be.
You know, if you're pessimistic,that's it kind of you're, you
are already on dynamic 5050, man, honestly, 5050, you know,
you look at the state of the world right now, we could be the
Roman Empire. Like I said, I do have

(46:42):
thankfully some understanding ofthe first principles once again.
And if you guys want, I can try to give you a mathematical proof
that is possible without now using the, let's say physical
proof. It's quite simple really.
So the second law of thermodynamics is the only thing
that makes the world dynamic. You break an act, very hard to
put it together, even though thelaws of physics don't say which

(47:02):
way the time flies. And again, this is something
I've been thinking about as a kid.
Why is time symmetric? Well, very simple at The Big
Bang about 14 billion years ago and you know this thing called
entropy or you know, the the number of states of the universe
or the chaos was abnormally low.So for some reason we don't know
why entropy was very low. So naturally entropy needs to be
much higher than it was 13.8 billion years ago.

(47:24):
So it just started going up because there is one One
Direction, something called the 4th dimension appeared and time,
time is a symmetric this way. So the second law,
thermodynamics and one of the interpretation says entropy must
always go up. So if you, if you have a room
and you kind of don't put in theeffort, I can take entropy from
a physical thing to a thing of arranging any objects, you know,
forks, spoons, cups, your room will fill with masks basically,

(47:47):
right? So entropy always goes up in the
universe. And this is what AI does it
optimizing for a loser of brain.It's a 0 sum game.
It's what nature does in a closed system.
And it all goes up, up, up more and more chaos.
Now you say, well, that's it. You know, we just proved that AI
is going to just create this, right?
The good thing is this is that the best way it turns out,

(48:07):
according to the best way to increase entropy is to in
different pockets in a differentway, local reduce it.
So it's because the universe hassomething called energy gradient
between the low and high energy.So you exhaust the energy
gradient and you increase entropy.
But the best way to do this is to actually exhaust it by
locally decreasing it. And then it just increases it

(48:28):
faster on the periphery. So in a way that, you know, I'm
sorry for kind of using these phrases, but the universe is
kind of heavier if you locally continually decrease entropy in
novel and novel and novel ways because it satisfies the second
law of thermodynamics better andbetter.
So it should be keeps going and this is the main requirement
that the universe has of itself.Let's evolve into hiring.
So the good thing is the best way to satisfy it is to

(48:52):
continually locally decrease it and increase it, but decrease it
in more and more novel ways. All of us, as I was just using a
novel counter entropy strategy, a novel unique counter entropy
dynamic, right? So this in a way makes the
universe more satisfied, physically speaking.
So what AI is doing right now isincreasing entropy in a
primitive way. But what the universe wants to

(49:13):
do is to increase the entropy ina creative way.
You see it with little children when they're first growing up,
they're just breaking things. Then they're like, I'm tired of
breaking things. Let me do some more entropy
increasing things that the universe wants me to do at this
high level of emergence of beinga baby.
I'm not just a gust of wind anymore.
You know, I'm so many layers of of these epistemological
spirals. I'm a baby.
So now I'm baby and I'm five. Maybe instead of breaking

(49:35):
another cup, I'm going to createsomething.
So this is a yeah, it can stay ababy.
It can increase the entropy. And this is what happened with
the Roman Empire. It had more entropy being
created than counter created andit collapsed.
Any system does that. More entropy comes in, it tends
to convert it and create new knowledge, right?
Converter, create new knowledge,but the system evolves because
the entropy always grows. The second law always grows.

(49:56):
So the system has to always grow.
If it stops growing, it collapses.
Everybody's concerned about the collapse of the West right now.
If we don't grow our culture, wecollapse.
Well, same with AIAI. It's just another system in the
universe. It can be sent into the
direction of counter entropy. To me, counter entropy, the
creation of the novel requires, like I said, the layer
underneath to be stabilized through some resonance.

(50:17):
You know, as a network, you resonate together.
You can call it culture, beauty,music.
So we need to continue creating and not animalizing ourselves
too. I would say maybe we shouldn't
walk around, you know, on on thered carpet with our girlfriends
naked. Just putting it out there like
that. That is too much animalization.
If that becomes because then youare kind of again, optimizing
for let's signal genetic beauty instead of putting in the effort

(50:39):
and creating signaling of mimetic beauty, signaling of
some cultural beauty that more people resonate with not just
young people than any people, but also brands.
So you need to create these resonant structures upon which
AI can build count trenches. So AI is like a baby.
He can certainly destroy, but hopefully, you know, in a
civilized society, like a baby who's a Maulgli is an enemy.

(51:01):
AI who grows up in an uncivilized society is an and we
are right and it's trying to actually fight us to make us an
uncivilized society. That's the challenge.
We're both Co evolving just likewe do with the cows.
Basically, AI is a very advancedcow.
So practically speaking, how do we go about building digital
spaces that are going to cause people to grow instead of just

(51:22):
perform? How do you incentivize sharing
the truth, right? How do you incentivize sharing?
You know, we're still capitalistas being so we need to
incentivize people sharing some achievements which are truthful.
So you need to build media wherethey can achieve.
So for example, the circle platform that we're building
right now, we're just it's, it'sa small thing.
You know, we got, if any of yourlisteners want to help, we have

(51:42):
about 16,000 children in war zones who are just applying, you
know, submitting their wishes. We can just for toys, things
like this, it's a circle of toysdot online you can go and you
can send the toy Circle dot helpalso has other health categories
like psychological help and so on.
But the point is we are just, I don't have the time
unfortunately to turn this into a proper social media yet.

(52:02):
But the idea is using our AI agents that we're building and
other technology to turn Circle into a proper professional help
platform where, where people cando all sorts of transactions,
you know, be it consulting and whatever.
And if, if they, if they have the ability also to volunteer
some of their time. By volunteering some of their
time, they get karma points, likes or whatever you want to

(52:24):
call it. And you know, they build up
their open profiles. Those open profiles, we connect
to other things that we're building.
We have this a social media we're building called drink
star, food star and coffee Star where you can meet people, but
you know, let's say you're some Jeff Bezos and another
entrepreneur says, hey, I can see you're in the city at this
time and you're open to meeting it, but you will say no, unless
that guy has many karma points from circle, for example, and

(52:46):
other achievements from the other platforms that we're
building, such as industrial, where you know, you can
volunteer your time to teach children.
So in, in essence, you, you can build different platforms, I
believe, where you can do good things and you're incentivized
to do them by capitalistic meansor by signaling means.
And we have this main platform that unites all of this.
It has those archetypical AI agents just for adults that set

(53:07):
those goals for you and allow you to then share your
achievements. And you, you do this because I
think ultimately you would, you would begin by lying to yourself
a little less. So our platform begins by being
like a new type of an iOS slash browser slash organizer, which
takes all of your activities, experiences and so on and then
organizes them for your own benefit to then you know, be a

(53:29):
better recommender engine. But then also allows you to
extract learnings from this and reflections and share it with
the world. And then you bring all of the
other social media to it. And then of course, as a
subscription of this, we also send you because we know your
life habits. We send you the nutrients which
are missing in your life that we're developing for Vital Labs.
So it's a giant ecosystem that incentivizes everything along

(53:50):
the way. But I've been in the basement
for so long, I haven't figured out a way to properly present
all of this. So I'm sorry if I'm a little
rusty. It's, it's just, it's just
basically doing what civilization has already done in
the offline, create communities where people are seen as truly
helping, you know, which the West has been doing for a while
before basically social media, you can say, which hasn't

(54:10):
worked, but say in, in, you know, in the Soviet Union or
other cultures where you were incentivized to lie.
So in essence, what we have today is the Soviet Union of the
Internet. And we need to create the West,
which has, you know, at its corecommunities and, and people in
the communities building incentive structures and also
disincentive structures. I'm certain that it's possible

(54:32):
online because it happened offline.
We just need people to continue putting in the effort to find
those counter entropy strategiesto overcome the second law of
thermodynamics, which is pretty tough.
You've you've done some reference earlier in this
podcast on, you know, Einstein'sE equals MC square and the
hidden power that we can carry in it every day, especially with

(54:53):
this technology. It is as it advances.
So what does this idea mean for our health and balance?
Did you say balance there at theyoung corporate?
Yeah. So what does it mean for our
health or. Balance well, but balance to me
is, is the key, key point. Like people say health, but it's
it's really all about balance. It's just incredible how all the

(55:13):
ancient cultures understand thisalready.
I think it means the same, the same thing we were trying to
discuss all along. Energy, like a nuclear explosion
is destructive. But if you balance the energy
output with some within some proper pathway, that energy can
be metered out. So we, we all have this energy
at the atomic scale. We all have this energy as a

(55:36):
drive. You know, when connected to the
correct people, we can either explode and, and, and and self
destruct, or we can meet the good people and the good
institutions along the way, which would maximize our
uniqueness, which AI would do. So to me, health would be to put
people in the in the context of where their best ability is
shines brightest, which human beings can do that, which

(55:58):
people, which people are worthy of being there to recognize your
effort. You know, I think like in, in a
way, in one of the modeling systems of the world, like
meaning of life is to become a person whose recognition of
effort is meaningful to a personexerting that effort.
I mean, it's all about in the end, you know, like this, this,
this becoming of becoming of you.

(56:20):
So yeah, that is balance. You are dynamic, you are
destructive. Who can balance it out?
Which system can balance it out?That is health at a level,
physical at a level, you know, of the body, which we're doing
with vital labs, with hair labs.It's a very simple thing.
You know, we balance out basically what happens around
the stem cells. So for the first time, stem
cells have been shown to start talking again, producing

(56:41):
melanin. So that's great.
We can do this for everything. We just put things together and
hopefully creates a lot of businesses and a lot of
successful people along the way as well.
I think we all kind of have the answers.
They're just scattered around our civilization.
We have them in culture, we havethem in business.
Health is balanced in currently three main spirals of the
universe, the laws of physics, the laws of life, and the laws

(57:04):
of culture. So, you know, 11 begets the next
and the next. You need to balance things out
everywhere. Nutrients here, community here.
Well, laws of physics are a little easier, I think.
Life figured out until there's some kind of a quantum glitch.
We, we have that. So I, I was just very happy to
use the word balance because I was always, you know, as a kid,
Remember I said in my 20s, I wascertain of things.

(57:24):
I was like, hey, I like this sports team, they're the best.
Hey, I like this political party, they're great.
Hey, I like this religion. They're also, whilst this works
for, for a lot of people and it is a very important full buck
mechanism, the truth is it's always the balance and that,
that's where the effort comes in.
Just like, you know, balancing, balancing heavyweight over your
shoulders. You have to balance a lot of
different ideas and different beliefs to do this.

(57:46):
We need technology for, for the spiritual things.
We need nutrient technology thatwe're doing with vital labs and,
and yeah. And hopefully we don't destroy
the the entire physics around uswith new kinds of weapons, which
are, you know, a function of, ofthe rest of it.
Healthy body, healthy mind, health, health.
So this idea of gradual upload, a lot of people can find that
both fascinating and unsettling.What do you see us becoming in

(58:10):
this whole process? Also something I really have had
to think a lot about, man, thinkof this, you know, do you guys
notice how different you are in the morning and in the evening?
Because I always have like almost two different cells.
I'm like, today I'm going to do all of this and ain't no way I'm
having that bourbon and then I'mdrinking that bourbon and
saying, who is that guy? What does he know?
So that's very interesting. And then also obviously when

(58:32):
we're in an agitated state, especially with guys, like I
said, I used to always think talking to somebody that I have
to compete in and there's a catch and they feel vice versa.
And at that point, you're not really the person you are, you
know, like when you're reflecting and so on.
So there's the very different states of being now imagine, but
still in all those states of being, you kind of remember who
you were before. You might disagree with them.

(58:53):
Like if we really merge togetherwith one another, I like I said,
we can't really envisage it, butit might be something like this.
There's an individual you can always come back to, which is
always uniquely you, but you cango and sort of find out what it
really means to be others. You know, that's what we kind of
do when we go into those fake profiles on Instagram and and
Twitter and ex Twitter. Now, if you go online and you

(59:15):
kind of like dive into their fake self, right in a way.
So if you're if you're not big on social media, but I gather if
you spend a lot of time on somebody's TikTok, you kind of
live their life a bit vicariously their fake life.
If you read a book, you know about somebody, you live their
life. I think in a way you will be
able to live other lives just you hopefully you'll be able to
return to your mind selves, which are always unique to you

(59:38):
because you have those genes, you know, so, so in a way, this
is totally unfathomable. The gradual upload just means,
you know, you are now you, but also in a way a bit of everybody
else, just like we do right now with books and and with social
media. We are a bit of everybody else.
I'm I'm a lot of everything I read, you know, like the movies
I watched, you know, like how many characters I don't know,

(01:00:00):
like what are the main guys for you, You know, music wise, movie
wise, I'm sure you're like, I'm a bit of this guy, a bit of that
guy, you know, so, so this wouldbe very interesting when we are
certainly us, but we are also a unique connection and collection
of everybody else. It's it's another conversation
which I think bourbon actually would help with.
Yeah, a lot of bourbon. Yeah.

(01:00:20):
I guess that kind of segues intohow can people remain grounded
spiritually, physically, emotionally?
Well, how can they do that whilenavigating this accelerated
digital world? Depends on where you are in, in
what I call the spiral, you know, if you're, if you're a pre
25, if you're post 25, if you'repre coupling with somebody, if

(01:00:41):
you're post, we have to look at caterpillars and butterflies as
we do very differently. And then we answer that
question, you know, how, how is the Caterpillar successful?
How is the butterfly successful?Same with humans, I think a big
problem for us is we try to put humans into like one category of
being, but I think we have very,very distinct around 4:00-ish
stages of life. You know, when we iterate, when

(01:01:01):
we crystallize, when we stabilize and, and those are
very different behaviors, very different states.
You really see it in Hollywood, you know, like there's some
actor in their 20s and they're doing one thing and then there's
some actor in their 40s and they're criticizing that reason
I bring up Hollywood is because the most vivid example of this
they are resonant in society. And then the actor in their 20s

(01:01:21):
goes through the stage reaches the 40s and criticizes when I
their 20s and so on. And you know, when you're 20,
you vote one party, 40, you votethe other and so on.
So yeah, we we have to look at what what works for for
different States and and then, yeah, I mean, if you are post
your poster unity stage when youalready have somebody, well, the
most important, you know, you'vecreated so much knowledge

(01:01:42):
together, you know, how, how canyou maximize that unity,
whatever that you might might you know, a couple or some other
maybe friendship, whatever. Well, it's the pursuit of that.
Basically, there's four dynamicsthat we need to address right
now. It just so happens that
literally social media addressesall of them through destruction.
You know, dating has become dead, you know, like dating with

(01:02:03):
Tinder, right then I mean, what what do people do when they are
together? You go to a restaurant, how many
people are on their phones reading with other people?
The only thing which has been left untouched really is well,
not untouched, but you know, it's almost there is, is
childhood education. So that's where I begin
technology wise because I'm, I'mnot giving up on our generation.

(01:02:27):
Like I'm whatever older millennial you guys are.
I guess Gen. X millennials probably right?
I'm a tail end boomer, well in 1963, so I'm like a boomer.
I'm not kind of that bridge group.
Well, right, right. So, so it's still a bit
different, but hopefully you know, the two of you are here,
you've, you've spoken to a lot of people, so you have requisite

(01:02:49):
knowledge, wisdom and so on. But I think in, in many ways we
do need to take care of ourselves.
But the, the real answer would be I'm not very optimistic that
that all bitter 40 year olds will just become kind all of a
sudden. I would like their children to
have a better education, which I'm really putting in all of my

(01:03:09):
time and effort into through education studios, developing
those metaverses which are connected to the offline world
and incentivize all of those things.
Because if we ensure that AI doesn't break children also,
children invariably will grow uphappier.
And hopefully that would touch their parents, you know,
potentially grandparents. I think Jeff, you're, you're

(01:03:30):
close to that if it's not there yet, right?
So, so I would say as as, as trite as the children are our
future. So let's start with them and
that will help us out. At least you didn't sing that.
Long I I don't want to torture you.
I thought this was the part. All right, so we're at that
point in the the podcast episodewhere we ask the question we ask
of all our guests, what are you doing personally to age well?

(01:03:52):
Well, physically, so there's physically and spiritually,
right. I'm, I shouldn't be aging very
well because I am not, I'm not living a normal lifestyle.
I, I don't do days off. I work constantly, but that
gives me a set of purpose. And I think when you do have it,
when you find a set of when you really find, find a set of

(01:04:13):
goals, then it's like, you know,the proverbial mother who lifts
the car to save the baby, right?So I, I feel like there's,
there's a car, there's a baby and I'm the mother.
So that gives me everything spiritual, but the physical.
I am working also day and night to maintain the body.
So guys sprinting, boxer sizing like very fast crazy activity

(01:04:37):
every day or every other day. The body needs to be used to
shocks. We are too sedentary obviously.
So peak physical exertion that almost kills it but not quite
for a few minutes every day obviously.
So body very important. We eat very badly today.
Everything. Well, look around you, you know,
look, look, go, go down the MainStreet of the High Street, all

(01:04:58):
this stuff. Eat healthy, find what works for
you. You know he's a carnivore.
Carnivore is a vegetarian. Find what works for you and then
give me some time. I will develop one of every
possible nutrient using the mostcutting edge AI, one of every
possible thing that really works.
That's my life goal to to balance what's missing, to
balance what's missing vis A visyour particular genetic

(01:05:20):
strategy. Nature has it all.
We, we, we don't have access to it.
Our social life is going to restaurants and eating strange
experimental food or drinking and having fun or doing other
things which are important, but we have to fix the situation
with the nutrients. So this is what we're doing with
Vital Labs. I'm pretty sure we almost fixed

(01:05:40):
hair health. That's like really
revolutionary. I think this is going to be a
very big product. Now we're talking skin and also
the sense of apathy, which I know is is like so difficult to
really figure out. Basically depression, but don't
do antidepressants because they just give you the next thing.
So I'm, I'm experimenting in a good way with food, with sports,

(01:06:01):
with trying to sleep well, but that's supposed to impossible.
Find some purpose. Love, children, French live for
that, you know, and the rest will follow.
But I think we all know this. I think there's a strange cult
or religion today of, of pretending, of seeking tragic
beauty instead of real beauty. You know, we're all sad and

(01:06:22):
that's kind of beautiful in a way.
Well yes, if you're watching a 2hour movie, not 100 year.
So seek out real beauty and workyour hardest towards that.
Works for me for now. I'm very healthy.
My fellow 37 year olds, if you're listening, I'm pretty
sure physically I'm better than I was 10 years ago and so can
you. Got to say, I think you're doing
a better job at this, and part of it is having that sense of

(01:06:44):
purpose and that spiritual side that I think you're kicking
Brian Johnson's ass when it comes to aging.
Well, compliments to you there. I'm I got a few more years to
go, but let's see. It's a tough race.
Where can people learn more about Anti Gray and your broader
work? That's my biggest thing.
My biggest problem is that working so much means I have

(01:07:07):
very little time for publicity. My team has been pushing me to
come out, finally come out of the closet and say I'm Arthur
and I'm a bit crazy. And we are just really just
really launching integrate properly this week.
The website is up, but it's in beta.
So we're still uploading. We will probably take about 3-4
days to collate all of the scientific materials and upload
everything. You can either order or

(01:07:29):
pre-order the bashes limited at hair labs hair labs one word dot
AI. My main website is this company
called rulia. That's a mathematical concept
RULIAD rulia dot online, but give me give me a few weeks to
really put all of those ducks ina row right now.
Just yeah, just just just just keep keep keep keep looking.

(01:07:52):
Arthur Arthur Corbin Powells. I have some linkedins, I have
some Instagrams, but I think I'mnot quite ready you you 2 are
are are company enough to to begin and and then you know the
next few weeks I will be coming out a bit more there.
There's really a lot to say, butmost importantly, I'm just
looking for more people to hire and to work with.
So if whoever listens to this, if you know engineers, you, you

(01:08:15):
know engineering, if you're interested in in just pursuing
whatever the hell truth means, we are hiring pretty much
anybody who can help with coding, marketing, design.
Anything that they can find you at.
Well, rulia dot online would would be the best one.
It has some vacancies rulia dot online for for for vital labs.

(01:08:39):
We only have hair labs dot AI right now, but yeah, Arthur
Corvin Powell is my full name. You can Google me.
Ignore all the bad things they say and subscribe to whatever
you find. I will become active, I promise.
I just need to invent the next pill.
Anti sleep. No, it's going to be, it's going
to be a while, but. I just got to optimize your
sleep. I know, I know.

(01:09:00):
My next challenge? Brian Johnson.
You can leave our listeners and viewers with just one idea to
rethink their relationship with What would it be?
I think everybody needs to understand that they are unique
in the inside universe and that means that don't lie to tech,
just be as unique as it can be with it.
Everywhere you go. Ignore the noise, create signal.

(01:09:22):
I think if everybody does it step by step, then there is no
more fakery online, right? So don't don't try to upload
that perfect picture of you jumping up and down on the
beach. If you had to do it 80 times and
everybody's upset, just say yesterday I had a terrible day
jumping up and down on the beach.
People will go and resonate. It's terrible.
Stop doing. This to say, this has been a

(01:09:43):
fascinating conversation, I think is an understatement.
I really enjoyed this conversation.
I'm really excited for the stuffthat you're doing.
And I know we're kind of on the cutting edge of it all.
So I'm really excited to kind offollow what comes next.
We'll have to have you back on here maybe in several months or
so as things further evolve and emerge.

(01:10:03):
But, you know, just thank you for coming on today.
Thank you for kind of opening usup to this conversation, giving
us something to think about and just keep doing what you're
doing and just keep aging well. Yeah.
I really appreciate guys, and it's very nice to meet you,
Corbin and Jeff. Yeah, you're my.
You're my first, and it was a good time.
Thank you for listening. Hope you benefited from today's
podcast and until next time, keep aging well.

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Rehumanizing Health: Arthur Corvin Powells on AI, Intention, and Conscious Connection | Ep. 290

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Rehumanizing Health: Arthur Corvin Powells on AI, Intention, and Conscious Connection | Ep. 290