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October 26, 2024 49 mins

Karl Smith joins the podcast to discuss the vital work of the Voter Education Project, which aims to empower citizens by ensuring they have access to critical information about voting rights, registration, and upcoming elections. Throughout the conversation, Karl emphasizes the importance of understanding the fundamentals of economics and how they relate to voter education, arguing that the Democratic Party needs to better communicate its policies and values to the public. He critiques the prevailing narrative that equates Democratic policies with socialism, highlighting the essential role of public investments in fostering a thriving economy for all. The discussion also touches on the relationship between worker wages and business success, emphasizing that when individuals thrive, businesses thrive as well. Join us as we delve into how informed voting can strengthen our democracy and how Karl's insights can help shape a more engaged electorate.


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Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
This is Bill Kimmler, co hostof the Black, white and Blue in the
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Listener.
Discretion is advised.

(01:08):
Welcome, nothingers, toanother episode of the all about
Nothing podcast.
This is episode number 229.
I am Barry Gruber.
I'm Zach King.
All right, we're gonnaintroduce our guest this week, Carl
Smith here in just a minute.
He's with the Voter education project.
Please subscribe and share the show.
That's how we get new listeners.
Also, if you could pleaseconsider supporting the show financially

(01:30):
by visiting our webpage andclicking on the support link.
Can't do that.
Please drop a review, get usthose five stars, hit the thumbs
up or leave a comment.
All that helps drive us uphigher in all of these podcast ratings
shows, things, whatever.
I want to thank real quick,Matt Velardobo for being on last
week.
He, of course, is thedemocratic nominee for the South
Carolina house, District 26 inFort Mill, South Carolina.

(01:52):
If you've election is, we'redays away and Matt's campaign is
still, we're thriving.
I'll just say we're thriving.
You can visit Matt Velardobo'scampaign page.
It is Mattv Four sc.com.
in fact, while we're recordingthis, they are out canvassing across

(02:13):
Fort Mill, which is awesome ifyou haven't ever canvassed before.
Honestly, there's reallynothing to it.
A lot of it is just engagingwith the people.
You know, the list of thepeople that you're going to go visit
are, it's friendly territory,you know, so a lot of it's just making
sure that people have a planto go vote on the fifth.

(02:34):
We are as of, as of the dateof this release of this episode,
early voting has started inSouth Carolina.
In fact, by this time earlyvoting has started across the country.
So my suggestion is if you canearly vote, if you have the ability
to mail in vote, you'rewatching this right now and you haven't
already mailed it in.
Stop the, stop listening, stopplaying this video and audio and

(02:57):
go ahead and fill out yourmail in ballot and send it in.
You don't want anything towreck or slow down the process of
your ballot getting counted.
You can also make sure tocheck your voter registration.
You can go totheallaboutnothing.com voter and
you can check your voter registration.
Make sure you know whereyou're voting as far as your precinct.

(03:18):
Also make sure that you, youraddress on the rolls is correct because
that is one the big thingsthat we check for as a, as a poll
worker.
We make sure that the address matches.
We make sure that you looklike your picture.
Just, you know, do everythingyou can to make sure that on election
day or voting or early,whatever that it is a, the process

(03:40):
is, is seamless.
You know, it, the system is aswe require voter ids and because
we require voter ids, let'sjust make sure that we're doing our
part to make sure that that isas simple as possible and, you know,
just a PSA for all of thevoters or the poll workers that are
going to be out there.

(04:00):
One, thank you for doing it.
I'm not doing it this yearbecause Matt's campaign out in Fort
Mill, but all the pollworkers, we sincerely appreciate
it.
It is a thankless job.
Even though people come in andthey thank you for your time.
It is grueling.
It's 14, 15 hours of work andthen at the end of the day, having

(04:21):
to get all that information tothe voter offices and everything
and all the counting that goeson and the potential that there will
be dismay with all of thecounting, I have crazy.
People telling you you'rehiding votes, double counting certain
votes.
Who knows the interaction,Michael and Dell shows up.

(04:42):
Yeah.
The interactions that I've hadwith, with voters here in Lexington
county and I've run, I've runthe, I've been a clerk for the last,
I guess, six years since 2018.
And the interactions that Ihave sometimes is just complete nonsense

(05:05):
and it's, it's paranoia andit's such a simple process.
Speaking for the state ofSouth Carolina and Lexington in particular,
I know what we do is it's alot of work and we're all very proud
of the job that we do.
And I think that the fact thatLexington county has had as far as

(05:28):
I know, no actual voter fraud.
I think that that speaksvolumes specifically to the Elections
commission office or thecommission, the Elections commission
office, as well as all thosethat volunteer to run these elections.
All right, getting on to ourshow today on the pod, we are honored
to have Carl Smith with us.
Welcome, Carl.

(05:49):
Thank you.
Carl is a dedicated advocatefor voter education and civic engagement,
having played an instrumentalrole in the 2024 Voter education
Project.
The website isvotereducationproject.com, as focus
is on power empoweringcitizens by ensuring that they have
access to critical informationabout voting rights, registration
and upcoming elections.
Carl's efforts help equipcommunities with the tools to make

(06:13):
informed decisions bystrengthening our democracy.
So welcome, Carl.
Thank you for being here onthe show.
Welcome.
Well, thank you very much.
Carl and I met at theLexington County September monthly
Democratic Party meeting.
And I, that was the firstmeeting that I have actually been

(06:33):
to probably since Bernie wasup for running back in 2016 because
I was the precinct executivecommissioner for my precinct for
the Democratic Party in Lexington.
And it's good to go.
You get to meet a lot of thepeople that are also very passionate

(06:55):
about making sure that, one,people turn out to vote, but two
know that the Democratic Partyis likely the party for them, that
when it comes to the actualissues that are affecting all of
us on a day to day basis, thatthe Democratic Party is really the
one that's more engaged intrying to find solutions and working

(07:17):
with Republicans to get thosesolutions enacted so that the state
of South Carolina is no longerat the bottom of the list.
But as far as our listeners,Carl, tell us a little bit about
the voter education project.
Well, it's just something Iput together a few years ago, and

(07:37):
it's after many years of kindof being frustrated about how the
Democrats have a great productbut they haven't sold it well, whereas
the Republicans have a reallya crappy product, but they suck the
sell the hell out of it.
It's just that there's so manypeople that think that the Republicans

(07:58):
are better on the economy than Democrats.
But if you go back to thefundamentals, basic macroeconomics
and behavioral, why businessesdo what they do, why people do what
they do, and all that, whichis apolitical, it's obvious that
the Democrats are on the rightside of the fundamentals and the

(08:21):
Republicans are just franklyon the wrong side.
So basically over the lastcouple of decades, you know, working
with various campaigns and,you know, getting people or doing
canvassing and phone bankingand all sorts of things, and then
trying to get the, theDemocratic Party to actually message
along the economic lines of,you know, of actually how what we

(08:45):
do works.
You know, they've alwaystalked about, you know, the evidence
and so on.
They've talked about kind ofthe policies, but they've not talked
about the mechanics or, youknow, what's behind it, you know,
and all of us.
And, you know, as an engineer,I'm actually an electrical computer
engineer.
So it's about, from anengineer standpoint, it's about,

(09:06):
well, you know, what are thenecessary conditions?
What does it take forsomething to work?
And, you know, we allunderstand, like with our car, we
don't understand a lot aboutour car.
We understand, you know, a fewof the basics, but the cars are incredibly
complicated, you know, and noone person actually understands every
single little thing about allthe microelectronics and how to all

(09:26):
do all that.
Nobody understands all, but weunderstand that you've got to keep
gas in the gas tank and yougot to have, you know, if it's a
gas car, obviously, you know,you've got to have air in the tires
and, and a place to sit andplace to be warm, comfortable and
you got to, you know, you gotto be able to have a well windshield
and got to be able to seethrough it.
And, you know, so there's justsome basic necessary conditions.

(09:49):
And we all, you know, we allget that.
And so somebody tells you, oh,put sand in your gas tank, you're
gonna go, what?
You know, you're gonna know.
That's a bunch of b's.
Yeah, for sure.
Okay.
Okay.
Yeah.
You know, it's a bunch ofbullshit, you know, and so no matter
how loud and how many timesthey say it, you're gonna know it's
bullshit, you know, and that'swhat we need to do with, with people

(10:11):
in terms of the economy.
You know, when the Republicanstalk about, you know, tax cuts for
the rich or, you know, taxcuts and being able to get businesses
to invest or they're supposedto invest, that's supposed to trickle
down.
Right.
Well, the problem is thatbusinesses, they invest when, when
their customers have moremoney, not when they have more money.

(10:32):
So you have to look at thebasic behavioral principles of what
actually makes things work.
And you have to look at, andyou have to ask the right questions
here, like, what do peopleneed to thrive?
That's a basic question thatwe should all be asking, you know,
when, when somebody says, oh,yeah, we're going to make it better
for you, we're on, you know,the Republicans who claim they're
on the people's side, theworkers side and all that stuff.

(10:53):
But you look at their policiesand you look at, you know, what?
You know, and then you look atthe fundamentals and you go, well,
that doesn't really work.
You know, and a lot ofDemocrats will say, well, trickle
down doesn't work, but theynever explained why it doesn't work
or how it doesn't work.
And they pointed the evidenceand all that.
That's a good point.
So basically, if we're goingto have people thrive, and another

(11:19):
thing that Democrats, theydon't come out as hard on the business
side, and so they get labeledas kind of anti business.
Well, the reality is thatpeople, we need successful businesses
because that's where ourproducts know, services and, or most
of our product services andjobs come from.

(11:40):
Right?
So we can't have all thesefailing businesses.
And for us to thrive, on theother hand, businesses need healthy
and educated customers, andthey need the people to thrive.
The more people thrive, themore businesses thrive.
You know, you can have aneconomy that works for the few businesses
and, you know, kind of aconcentration of wealth and, you

(12:01):
know, winner take all and allthat kind of stuff.
But for really the most amountof businesses, especially most of
the small businesses, for themto thrive, more of them thrive if
we're thriving.
So it's not like you can be onone side or the other.
We've got to basically do both.
So then you ask the question,well, what does it take for people

(12:23):
to thrive?
And what does it take forbusinesses to thrive?
But then when the Democratstry to do things like educate people
or, you know, improve theirhealth or, you know, invest in research
and all this stuff, then theRepublicans label them as socialists.
Now, if there were Republicansdo it, then it's not socialism.

(12:43):
Right.
But anyway, it's kind of funny.
So, so basically what I, whatI've been working on then is, well,
how do we boil this down, youknow, for, for people?
And initially, I constructedthe website as kind of a, kind of
a research thing or somethinga little more deeper information
for candidates.

(13:05):
For more higher informationpeople, I'm gonna actually reconstruct
or plan to reconstruct andkind of simplify it, get a few basic
things up there, and then, youknow, have those other resources
available for, you know,people that, that nearly want to
kind of do a deeper, deeper dive.

(13:26):
But do you want me go intosome of the, some of the messaging?
Then I was gonna, I was gonnaask you.
So when it, when it comes toobviously, educating voters is.
It's a great title.
The idea of making sure thatvoters have either access to all

(13:47):
of the information that theycould potentially find, because we're
inundated with news sources,like between MSNBC and Fox News.
I tell my father in law thisall the time.
I say I listen to Fox Newsbecause I want to hear how they are
attacking the informationthat's coming out of the right or

(14:09):
the left.
I listen to MSNBC because theydo a fairly good job of attacking
what's coming out of the right.
But what I get out of both ofthem is that it's more about blame
games and the Republicans havethe benefit of cognitive dissonance.

(14:33):
Where, and not allRepublicans, I have plenty of republican
friends that are even votingfor Harris because they've gotten
tired of the rhetoric or thewhining that comes from this idea
that the Republicans are sodisenfranchised with everything,
completely ignoring that therewas eight years of George W.

(14:54):
Bush and that there was fouryears of Donald Trump, and there
was twelve years of Reagan andHW Bush.
Those policies from even 1981are still having an impact on things
like deregulation.
People complain about the factthat the price of things at the supermarket

(15:16):
are still as high as they areand how that's a result of inflation.
But inflation right now isaround the two and a half percent
wherever, where a good economyneeds for inflation to be, because
that means that value isincreasing on things the way that
it's supposed to.
It's a very controlledincrease in the cost of things.

(15:38):
Pay should be increasing atthe same rate.
I mean, the cost of livingcontinues to go up and we continue,
although in the last fouryears, I think Zach and I can both
speak to our own personal situations.
We have benefited from thefact that pay has been increasing,
whether it's our jobs.
We see more companies,corporately owned franchises across

(16:03):
the country that our employeesare benefiting from.
The fact that places likeMcDonald's and Chick fil A in a number
of locations, these are fastfood, first time jobs that are moving
to a $12 or $15 minimum.
And that is because it'sbecoming increasingly clear that
it's necessary.

(16:24):
People can't live off of $7.25or $7.50, whatever the minimum.
A lot of corporationsunderstand that if they don't pay
people well, their customersdon't have, you know, have money,
you know, and a poor person,you know, they're, they have lots
of needs.
And so, and I under, you know,a person that's living hand to mouth.

(16:46):
They have lots of needs andthey'll spend the money quickly.
They just, you know, they'renot a good customer.
You know, they need.
They, they really need.
And look at third worldcountries where they don't value
their workers.
Well, well, then two thirds tothree quarters of their population,
you know, are in poverty.
So, you know, anyway, then Ican dive into some of the things

(17:10):
that I'm trying to get across here.
Yeah.
Can I point this out, too,real quick, if you don't mind?
I, the whole, speaking on theeconomy is, you know, people who
are going to go vote for Trumpare like, well, the economy was a
lot better when Trump was in office.
He had Obama's economy, andthen to the end of it, we inherited
Trump's economy by the timeBiden came in.

(17:32):
Right now Biden's fixing it,and we want to continue with the
fixing with Kamala Harris.
But then if Trump say on some,let's hope it never happens, wins,
he's just gonna tank it againand go off of what he was until he
tanks it at the end of it again.
And then someone's gonna haveto be up to pick up those pieces.
Well, if we get people alittle more informed on the fundamentals,

(17:55):
they'll, they'll be able topick out bullshit when they hear
it.
Right, right.
No matter how.
And Republicans are very goodabout getting on a message and then
staying on that.
And then if the person reallydoesn't understand that sand doesn't
go in your gas tank, they'regoing to go, okay, fine, let's try
this in.
Now, the problem is that it'sa slow moving disaster.

(18:18):
So it doesn't have animmediate effect, this long term
effect.
One president will benefitfrom the previous president.
So even if they're doing badthings, they're benefiting from the
inertia of this good economyand so on.
And things that we've doneeven decades, many, many decades

(18:38):
ago, think if we had never putthe money and the research and coming
up with microelectronics,where would we be today?
Yeah.
Every single person, everysingle business, we've, we've made
billions, trillions of timeson the money, you know, and it will
keep on paying off, you know,for centuries and centuries to, you

(19:00):
know, to come.
So anyway, I get into, andtrying to get people kind of bullshit
proved, you know, because ifwe can do that, you or a little more,
you know, and stuff, and, andTrump is a phenomenal con artist,
you know, the thing that hehas in this part of the deal book,
the thing that he has againstconning people, or at least at that
time, you know, you know whatit was?

(19:21):
What?
That you couldn't get awaywith it for very long.
Admitted, he admitted it inhis book.
That's what, yeah, that was,that's a grift incentive, you know,
and the presidency is, is theultimate long con if you make, if
you're of that disposition andthat kind of, that kind of person,
unfortunately.

(19:41):
So he's con in a lot of peopleand everything.
But we don't, you know, peoplejust don't, they don't have the right
filters to hear that, hear thecons and stuff.
But anyway, so, you know, ifwe look at the, you know, what do
people need to thrive?
Well, there's, there's threebasic things.
We need basic public investments.
Well, there's actually alittle bit more.

(20:02):
Then we need a fair system,you know, and we need to value workers.
People need to have a fairwage if they don't make much, you
know, or the system is not fair.
So it's benefiting these otherpeople, but not, you know, not very,
you know, various groups or ifwe're not making the basic public
investments, then they don'tdo well and so on.

(20:24):
So in our basic publicinvestments, that's where, you know,
we get called socialists a lot.
Now let's look at that alittle bit.
Basic public investments.
What, what is that?
And that's a term that I cameup with.
It's kind of an umbrella forpeople to understand these various
things.
Okay, so what does it take fora person to thrive?
Do they need education?
Would they thrive more with,with education?

(20:46):
Well, I think most peoplewould probably say, duh, you know,
how about healthcare and beinghealthy in access to healthcare?
Yeah.
What about infrastructure?
Being able to get places anddo things, you know, all the things
that we need to do that.
What about research?

(21:08):
Do we benefit from research?
Well, I mean, there's a ton ofways and stuff that we benefit, and
they're figuring out, youknow, what we're doing that's killing
us and what we're doing thathelps us and, you know, and all that.
And then microelectronics andeven AI, that's a lot of government
basic research that even gotnow this huge multiplier into the

(21:29):
future of our productivity.
What about safe communities,community development and infrastructure?
So that's the group of things now.
Okay, so that would benefit people.
What about businesses?
What do they really need to thrive?
Well, do they need help?
Do they need healthy employees?

(21:49):
Is that delivered by whateverhealthcare that they're provided,
or has that been more of afunction of what the healthcare they've
had since birth?
I think most people would get it.
It's a longer picture thanwhat they're getting.
What about education, for sure?
Do they need an educated employee?

(22:10):
Do they benefit from that?
Would they even exist withoutthe right educated people?
A lot of businesses wouldn't have.
What about research?
Do they benefit from research?
Well, yeah, in fact, a lot ofthem wouldn't exist without the research
investments that we made inthe past.
What about infrastructure?
Well, I think even theRepublicans understand that businesses

(22:31):
need infrastructure now.
They want to make it like apay as you go kind of thing versus
a much more efficient system,less costly system.
You just build it and thenpeople can access it.
And you don't stratify or youdon't cut out people and businesses.
Oh, you're just a smallbusiness, so therefore you don't
have access to this or whatever.

(22:52):
What about safe communities?
Do they need a safe communityto do business in?
What about community development?
Do they benefit from having aplace for their people to want to
live and their customers towant to be and in the, and all of
that?
So guess what?

(23:13):
Our businesses need our basicpublic investments, many of them,
to even exist and especiallyto thrive.
So is that really social?
I mean, so you think aboutpure capitalism.
You know, if everybody, youknow, were responsible for their
own safety, for their own, youknow, infrastructure, for their own,

(23:37):
you know, health and, I mean,it's be like a person being out in
the desert with nothing, right?
Well, how well would they do?
Well, they might survive.
Maybe not.
No.
It's like, you look at thatlike the, the wild, wild west when,
when you had, you hadindividuals out mining or panning
for gold, they'd literallycome back with potentially, you know,

(24:00):
crumbs and that that was theironly source of income.
You know, the likelihood isthey were fending for themselves.
They were living in squalors,attempting to live and perform this
function that would eventuallynet some sort of a profit.
They'd have to travel bytrails that were unregulated and

(24:24):
unmaintained.
And the likelihood, you know,of being hurt on, you know, living
in towns.
That had no governmentalinfluence outside of your local charity.
And they didn't even have,like, public education in the earlier
part of the 18 hundreds.
It started kind of through the18 hundreds by the end of it, you

(24:44):
know, so it really got going alot better in the 1919 hundreds and
so on.
But do you know about how many people.
What percentage of Americanswere in poverty back in their 18
hundreds?
Like 70%, I would figure.
It's pretty high.
It was very high.
It's like a third world country.

(25:05):
Okay.
Now we can.
Now, with enough republicanpolicy, we might be able to get back
there if that's what theyreally want to do.
Is that the America you wantto make great again?
Yeah.
Is that what we're doing?
Yeah.
There's this mentality thatpeople should be able to fend for
themselves, but completelyignoring the fact that fending for
themselves nowadays includesthe fact that we have social services,

(25:29):
not socialism, but it's socialservices that are provided because.
Because people are paying themajority of that being paid for by
the taxes that come from thelower class and the middle class.
These are things that keep you safe.
The fact that you can walkinto a hospital and the hospital
has to treat you regardless ofwhether or not you have insurance,

(25:50):
whether you have some way offinancially paying for those services.
Yeah.
The state will come after youas a collection agency in South Carolina
afterwards, but it.
You still will have thoseservices provided to try and save
your life.
These are.
These are all.
And I think you're buildingtowards it, but these are things
that people don't seem to recognize.

(26:12):
These are all democratic value.
These are.
These are values of theDemocratic Party that started, really,
a hundred years ago.
Yeah.
And Republicans voted for alot of this.
Yeah.
You know, you know, way back,we wouldn't, you know, if we didn't
have both parties supportingit, we wouldn't have had all the
great programs and really theinvestments in education and, you

(26:36):
know, health.
You know, we created thishealthcare system and.
And, I mean, we've had just alot of the money and the research
and so on.
So we've benefited upon theshoulders or on the shoulders of
all of our, you know, of allthese past investments and everything.
And it's not.
And so pure capitalism wouldbe very anemic.

(26:56):
It would be very.
I mean, because businessesreally wouldn't be able to get started
because they couldn't createtheir own necessary.
They can't create their ownnecessary conditions.
They can't, you know, tothrive, to even exist.
You know, they can't, for mostpart, okay, you can sell some vegetables.
You can do, you know, there's,you know, really simple businesses,
but the kind of complexbusinesses that we have today would
not exist.
So really, it's not, you know, democratic.

(27:20):
I think democratic socialismis, you know, it's kind of a misnomer
in that it's because if youlook at those countries that do that,
most products and services,and there's another fundamental thing
that you understand.
Most products and services inthose countries are coming from where
businesses.

(27:40):
Yeah, they're, they're notcoming from government.
Okay.
And these are what we'recalling socialism.
Why would we call somethingsocial like one thing when it's mostly
something else?
So it's really, it's really asustainable capitalism that's working
for their whole populationversus, you know, a rig capitalism

(28:02):
that's working for the few,you know, so, you know, it's, these
are all capitalistic systemsand, you know, they're, you know,
business people want to createtheir own businesses.
Democrats, now Republicans,they're implying that Democrats want
to take your property.
They want like hardcoresocialism and take your property
and, you know, and controlyour life and everything.

(28:23):
And what basic public investments.
Go ahead.
That's propaganda, right?
It's propaganda.
So what you're being told, ourbasic public investments, if we can
get that term into, and thegoal of all of this is really to
change and add to the nationaldiscussion this whole concept of
basic public investments andhow that works.
Because once people understandthat, they're going to say kind of

(28:45):
like when Republicans call itlike socialism, like, oh, taking
our opportunities.
No, these create opportunities.
And these are investments thatpay back.
You know, we pull a person, wemake the investments that pull a
person out of poverty.
They pay far more taxes overtheir lifetime.
They have far more money to bebetter customers for businesses.

(29:05):
How is that a bad thing?
You know, and they, and theyactually do pay back.
They know, they, they create aprofit for us.
When we make these, theseinvestments, we not only get paid
back as taxpayers, we make aprofit on it over time.
So you need something tokickstart these things.
But anyway, so we have ourbasic public investments and that
these are things that areneeded by everybody, both businesses.

(29:29):
Think if we did another thingin there was safety nets.
Think if we didn't have oursafety net, you know, the fact the
more, the faster we pullsomebody out or a business out or
community out or whatever,then they're back contributing to
this through the economy again.
If we just let them, you know,flounder and, you know, and everything,

(29:51):
they're not only not helpingthemselves, they're not helping the
rest of us, you know, so it'sin our best, it's in our financial,
it's not only morally right,it's financially smart.
And this whole thing aboutconservatism, you know, like, why
wouldn't we borrow I mean,would a conservative not borrow money
to build a house or somethingthat's going to actually pay, you

(30:13):
know, pay back over, you know,provide benefits over a long period
of time or do investments thatactually pay back?
You know, this is actually afairly conservative thing, you know,
to invest in things thatactually do pay back.
But to put money in, likecutting taxes on the wealthy and
I, bigger businesses and soon, you know, doesn't pay back because

(30:36):
they don't invest quickly.
They don't, they don't put themoney back.
They don't hire people.
They don't, they don't investunless they have more customers with
more money.
And that's what our basicpublic investment says.
It not only creates these longterm multiplier effects, has an initial
stimulation in our economy,you know, it's putting money in the

(30:57):
economy.
People spend it.
A poor person that gets moremoney, how long do they have it in
their pocket?
Almost zero time.
And so another kind of littlefundamental thing that everybody
in the industry understand isspeed of money.
And you've heard this fromother politicians.
So we need to kind of doubledown and explain that to people that,
you know, if you have zero, ifyou have like a trillion dollars

(31:19):
in the economy and you have,and nobody spends it, how big is
your economy?
Zero.
Zero.
7 hours, 57 minutes and 58 seconds.
If they spend it, if it cyclesone time, how big is it?
A trillion dollars.
If it cycles ten times, it's$10 trillion.
Wow, that is really cool.
You know, because that means,and this is a big counter to republicans

(31:44):
because they want to alwayspicture, well, if somebody else is
going to do.
If somebody's going to do wellor better, somebody else has to do
worse.
No, no.
You know, when we basically,you know, when that poor person has
a better job or has a job, youknow, they actually create jobs by
just having that job.
Yeah.
Yeah.

(32:04):
Because they're spending moneyin places that then have to create
jobs for that money to be spent.
You know, and to expand onthat idea, one of the things that
Republicans right now arerunning on is this idea.
Springfield, Ohio.
Not necessarily the dogeating, but the fact that there are,
uh, migrants that are herefrom, uh, from Haiti, not Haitia,

(32:26):
which I think I have heardmultiple times now, even from some
of the talking heads on Haitia.
Yeah.
That, uh, JD Vance, uh,recently, uh, in a speech, acknowledged
that, uh, the people ofHaitia, uh, had, had invaded Springfield,
Ohio.
Don't fact check them.
That, uh.
Yeah, please don't fact check me.
Um, but, but the point of thatis in, in rich in respect to the

(32:51):
economy is there were 20 to35,000 haitian people that came to
the United States after theirgovernment fell, after the haitian
government basically collapsed.
Their prime minister is in exile.
The president was assassinated.
It's being run, and this istrue that it's being run literally

(33:14):
by somebody whose name isbarbecue, who is a cannibalization.
And people live in fear oftheir lives.
So the United States grantedlegal documentation to allow for
these migrants to come to theUnited States.
And that's been policy that'sbeen, goes way back.
That's not something thatBiden implemented or anything like

(33:37):
that.
But these are people that nowhave jobs and they're working jobs
and they're paying taxes andthey are accountable to the economy
and they are providing fortheir families.
They're spending their money,they're earning income, they're making
investments into thecommunities that they live.
And they don't get to vote.
They don't, they don't, theyare not allowed to be a part of the

(34:00):
system unless they becomenaturalized by becoming citizens.
And this is just aside, butI'm one of those type of people that
says, I am appreciative of thefact that they have committed themselves
to being a part of the systemwithout being allowed to be a part
of the decision part of the system.

(34:25):
And I don't understand, andmaybe you've had interactions with
people on subjects like that,but where is that mental block?
Where is that dissonance, thatcognitive dissonance that says that
can't recognize that peoplehere in the United States that are

(34:46):
here and participating in thegrand scheme of things, but they
still shouldn't be here.
They shouldn't be allowed to participate.
They shouldn't be allowed tobe here, that the government's funding
their lives and all theseother things.
What sort of interaction doyou have or how would you combat
that sort of.

(35:06):
Well, I think by understandingthat in a, encountering this, this
fallacy that somebody to dobetter, somebody else has to do worse.
So if somebody's coming in andthey're doing better, then must be
some of our citizens are doing worse.
No, these people are actuallycreating, you know, now they're,

(35:27):
they're, you know, they're employees.
If we deported, you know, theten plus million people that are
here illegally, 1021, whateverit is, if we deported all those people,
most, I mean, our economywould collapse and so many businesses
would be out of businessbecause then they wouldn't have the
workers.
And then there's so many andthen the housing market would collapse.

(35:49):
I mean, there's all sorts ofhorrible economic impacts and stuff
if we actually did that.
So this, again, going back tothe fundamentals.
When we pay, when people dobetter, and we really need morally
and also economically, youknow, that everybody makes a livable

(36:10):
wage or better.
That's valuing all workers.
What, you know, that's another umbrella.
So we have, you know, we havebasic public investments and we have
valuing all workers, which isbasically a livable minimum wage,
equal pay for equal work andworkers rights.
So all of those things driveup, you know, wages.
Now, individual companiescan't raise their wages because of

(36:33):
competitions.
But basically, if you set alevel playing field between all these
companies, then, thenbasically they can rate, you know,
that.
So an outside entity,government needs to basically, you
know, set that minimum.
And then the businesses havemore customers, more money.
But then they'll say, well,that's just, you know, if we double
the wage to dollar 15 an hour,won't that double the price?

(36:56):
No, because products andservice costs or wages are typically
a very small part of theproduct and service cost and whether
or not those products andservices should be higher.
Okay.
But for most things, oursystem can create far more products
and services, except forperiods like Covid, where your whole

(37:18):
supply chain is interruptedand all that kind of stuff.
But in normal times, oursystem can create far more products
and services than we can consume.
So there's not a supply problem.
There's a demand and problem.
And, you know, we need to, youknow, you know, and that's, that's
really what this is about is,is how you create that healthy environment

(37:42):
that people can thrive andbusiness, more businesses can thrive
and all of that.
So the value in all workers,you know, we need to, you know, we
need to pay people better.
It would cause some inflation,but then it basically, like, I think
a hamburger was supposed to belike $0.50 more if you actually paid

(38:02):
minimum wage.
So one of the things I want totalk about is this whole idea about
the inflation.
And now Republicans are tryingto blame Biden and all that on that.
And, you know, the Republicanor the Democrats are saying, okay,
this is a worldwide problem.
They don't say, well, Trumpwould have the same problems.

(38:24):
I mean, I think we literallyneed to say that for people to connect
the dots or more peopleconnect the dots, Trump would have
had the same problem.
In fact, he probably wouldhave done worse.
We've done better than anyother country in terms of getting
our inflation down.
Now there's that period whereit was very high.
And so some of those priceshaven't come down.

(38:46):
But a lot of that is notbecause of increasing employee pay
and that kind of thing.
It's because so manyindustries have been allowed to consolidate
and then reduce thecompetition, reduce or eliminate
competition.
So when that happens, then inthese sectors and parts of the food

(39:08):
sectors and so on, thoseprices are way high.
You know, so then you say,well, who is actually to blame for
this?
Is it really the Democrats oris it the Republicans?
And if you look at thepolicies, you know, Republicans say
a lot of really nice soundingthings, but if you look at their

(39:29):
policies, you know, it's notreally on the same thing.
If you look at their policies,what they've done is they've allowed
for, you know, for companiesto, in industries to combine and
contract and so on.
They solar policies eliminate competition.

(39:50):
They go against antitrust laws.
And then, like, you know, sopeople are, you know, the economy
is actually doing very wellfor at least a lot of people, but
then there's far too manypeople now that are still hurting.
You know, who is responsible?

(40:11):
Think about, let's get peopleto think about how much better off
would they have been.
But for the Republicans, notthe Democrats, the Republicans blocking
the expansion and thecontinuation of child tax credits,
how much better would off theybe with, with an extra $3,000 per

(40:32):
child and, and so on throughthis, this period is going to be
turbulent economically.
Coming back from COVID it'sgoing to be turbulent no matter who
is.
It's a worldwide problem.
Trump wouldn't be immune.
So.
Okay, so there's that.
And then also, who has beenthe one or what party has been responsible

(40:55):
for not keeping wages up withinflation from 1968 to today?
It would already have been $17an hour.
But for the Republicans, howmuch, how better if you're struggling
today, how much better offwould you have been if you had a

(41:16):
livable wage to make itthrough this?
Tough time.
Yeah.
It's a tough time.
Yeah.
Or who is responsible for that?
It's the Republicans they're blocking.
Go ahead.
No, I was just gonna say, orif, and even if, even if it weren't
just about the wages, what ifit was about the healthcare portion
of it?
What if it was, what if, whatif healthcare was not something that

(41:38):
you needed to worry about the cost?
What if you could be able to,what if you could go see your doctor
or you could go to thehospital or be treated for something
very simple like, you know,let's say you're having headaches
or you, you've injured yourhand and you need your hands to do
your job.
What if there was a system inplace where you could go and be treated
for something simple like thatultimately is more designed to keep

(42:04):
you healthy rather than justtreat the symptoms of what is ailing
you.
If that were in place, if youhad a system of healthcare and you
were able to take out therequirement that you have to go and
work for a company, that, thatyou have to pay for the premium for
that health care like we alldo, what if that system were in place?

(42:28):
This is something thatdemocrats have been pushing for really
since 1930s on this idea thatthe government, life, liberty and
the pursuit of happiness.
Well, life covered health iscovered by life and we all have the
right to good health.
So, you know, even if, even ifwe couldn't get national wages up

(42:51):
to a living wage, then havinga healthcare system that would potentially
make sure that people areliving healthy rather than just treating
symptoms and having to pay apremium on those symptoms and then
it's.
Not a one or the other.
Yeah, you know, like we can,you know, get good wages.

(43:14):
You know, our current system,about a third of the money or close
to a third of the money.
It's just a freaking overheadof the insurance program.
What if we took that money andactually had healthcare providers,
you know, instead?
Then we could all have, youknow, hearing and vision and, you
know, all these other servicesand actually ensure every single

(43:36):
person and diseases are spreadby other people.
We don't want sick peoplecoming to work because they can't
go, you know, can't afford togo to the doctor and all that.
This is something that, youknow, there's a physicians for national
health program.
They got a lot of really goodinformation out there, but we really
need to get to single payer,you know, it, you know, how many

(43:56):
businesses don't exist becausethe entrepreneur, you know, doesn't,
doesn't know that he'll haveactually healthcare if he starts
his own business or be able toafford it.
And right now we have the moststupid system.
You know, like if you have todo get individual health care, but
you're basically, or at least,you know, before the Obamacare and

(44:19):
all that and stuff.
But basically what Republicanswant is this system.
So as you're young, okay, itdoesn't cost much to insure you.
The probabilities are prettylow, but in that kind of system.
And the Republicans will say,well, if you have your, like your
doctor, you like your program,you should be able to keep it well,

(44:40):
we need to get people tounderstand that's a game of chance.
Are they, you know, thatemployer that's providing, are they
going to be providing thatplan that you like next year, in
five years, when you startneeding, as you get older, you need
more and more healthcare.
So, you know, it's, it's, areyou gonna be working for that same
employer so you can't use it?

(45:01):
So in the current system,you're not guaranteed to keep your,
your, you know, your thing anyway.
So we need to have a system.
Sorry, we have Cobra, but it'snot affordable.
All right, real quick, goingto interrupt this episode as we recorded
a lot of content with CarlSmith and just wanted to interrupt

(45:24):
here because we're going tocontinue this in an upcoming episode.
Actually, it's just going todrop in a couple days, so stick around.
So this is going to wrap upthis episode.
We're going to.
Let me finish out the credits,but just stay tuned.
The next episode is coming outvery soon, just in a couple days.
And you'll get to finish thisconversation with Carl Smith.

(45:46):
We are only days away from,from this election, so make sure
you've checked your voter registration.
You can do that at theallaboutnothing.com voter as well.
Check your voter registration.
You want to make sure you alsohave a plan for your voting.
If that means that you need todownload and look at your sample
ballots, just do a Googlesearch, check out your social, just
search on Google for sampleballot with your zip code and I guarantee

(46:10):
it'll have all the informationout there, research that.
Look at all the questionsthey're asking.
If you, when it comes down towho is running as far as board of
education, that sort of thing,the League of Women Voters has done
an outstanding job in puttingtogether the, and grabbing the resources
necessary to know who thesecandidates are.

(46:32):
They're running for boards ofeducation and trustees of education
across the state and acrossthe country.
So I'll put, I'll put links tothe show notes for the, with league
of women voters as well.
So definitely go check that out.
So again, Carl, thank you verymuch for being here.
That is going to do it forepisode number 229.
Thanks for Zach being here as well.
Links to past episodes,podcast platforms, merchandise and

(46:54):
social media available on ourwebsite, theallaboutnothing.com.
and if you think our financialmodel of giving away free content
and entertainment is silly andyou're in the giving mood, why not
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(47:17):
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Links available at our website.
Thank you very much forlistening everybody.
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Be kind.
Have a great week.
The all about nothing podcastis produced and engineered by me
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(47:40):
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(48:21):
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(48:45):
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