September 4, 2025 • 61 mins
Ever wonder why you struggle to say "no" or why certain interactions leave you emotionally drained? This soul-stirring conversation with our first returning guest Sheree Cain-Jones dives deep into the hidden patterns that keep women playing small and offers transformative insights to reclaim your authentic power.
"If you don't set your boundaries, then someone else will," Sheree shares in a moment of raw truth that perfectly captures the essence of our discussion. We explore how seemingly innocent people-pleasing behaviors are actually attempts to control others' emotions—and how this pattern depletes the energy needed for your own growth and purpose.
The conversation takes an unexpected turn when we discuss what Sheree calls "mission-oriented interactions." She reveals her personal filtering system for decisions: "Is this aligned with my mission? What's the payoff? Am I trying to validate myself through someone else's presence?" This framework alone could revolutionize how you approach relationships and commitments.
Perhaps most powerful is our exploration of emotional triggers as teachers. Those uncomfortable feelings that make you want to run, hide, or lash out? They're actually pointing to areas where healing and growth await. We share practical tools for emotional regulation that move beyond simply "managing" emotions to truly understanding what they're trying to tell you.
For women who've spent years (or decades) prioritizing everyone else's needs and dreams, this episode offers a permission slip to reclaim your voice, your time, and your purpose. As Sheree beautifully puts it, "Nice girls don't do anything. Girls who are in alignment do everything."
Ready to stop apologizing for your story and start living with conviction instead of seeking validation? This conversation will meet you exactly where you are and gently guide you toward where you're meant to be.
If you felt something shift inside you today… hold that. Honor it.
This is how we rise — one choice, one voice, one brave breath at a time.
If you’re ready to go deeper, download your free ARISE Activation Workbook at www.arisewithanita.com
And if this message landed in your soul, subscribe, leave a review, and share it with a woman who’s done playing small.
Because we don’t just rise alone — we rise together.
I’ll see you in the next episode. And until then… stay rising.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Rise With Anita podcast, the space
where soul meets strategy anddreams are no longer optional.
I'm your host, anitaCurdine-Gruz, a transformational
mindset coach and founder ofthe Her Method.
This show is for the woman whoknows she's meant for more.
If you have the call to risehigher that sometimes feels
trapped by her old stories,patterns or circumstances, here
(00:22):
we don't just talk about growth,we embody it.
We activate the woman inside ofyou who leads, who creates, who
claims her next level.
You'll hear a mix of soloepisodes from me and interviews
with soul-driven leaders, thebest in their fields, who live
what they teach and rise byexample.
Each conversation is a catalystfor your next breakthrough.
You're not broken.
(00:43):
You're breaking through.
Let's go ahead and risetogether.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Welcome back to the Rise with Anita podcast.
On today's episode I have ourfirst returning guest.
Sherry McCain-Jones is backwith us.
Last time when she was in ourspace, she lit it on fire with
raw truth, unshakable wisdom andthe kind of presence that makes
you sit up straighter andbreathe deeper.
(01:10):
She walked us through herjourney of surviving domestic
violence and abuse I will haveto cut that out To embody her
worth raising four incrediblechildren, building a
purpose-driven business andreclaiming her voice, not just
to be heard but to heal, leadand love from wholeness.
(01:34):
And the moment, honestly, we met, I had a feeling that we would
be not just having oneconversation on our podcast, but
multiple.
So here we are because, let'sjust be honest, she doesn't just
tell a story, she activatessomething in you.
She reminds you about yourmicro decisions, which matter,
(01:55):
that discipline is a lovelanguage to yourself and that
your relationships romantic,familial or your own soul
deserve to be safe, powerful andexpansive.
So today we're about to dive abit deeper.
This episode is a little bitoff the cuff, but I think this
is going to be incredible.
So welcome back.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
What is up, Anit, I'm super excited to be here.
I hope that they check themicrophone because I'm already
pumped and that's a lot to liveup to.
I'm like man a heel, we have toheel.
I love it.
We do have to heel, we do.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
So we were chatting a little bit offline but, for
those of you who don't know, wehave not been in person together
since our last conversation, sothis is about to be all the
juicy tea.
It's kind of going to give youthe vibes of two friends
catching up and having the mostraw, real conversations about
where we are, how our journeyskind of intersected, and also I
(02:55):
was just thinking we touch onall the things relationships,
self-love, embodiment becauseyou know we're at this phase and
this point in life where we'reconstantly, ever evolving, and
so why not just go from there?
How is life?
What is bringing you joy inthis current season?
Speaker 3 (03:14):
What is bringing me joy in this current season is.
For me, it's always aboutperspective and insight.
I don't think that you everarrive, and so I find myself in
midlife and being surprised bymy own self, just learning
things about myself that Ididn't know were there, and I
think that that's reallyimportant to learn to grow, to
(03:38):
love yourself, to acceptyourself.
I always say that before youcan really grow, you have to
accept yourself.
You've got to accept yourselfwhere you are, not where you
wish you were.
So I'm just learning more toaccept myself and I'm like I
like you, like you're kind ofinteresting, sheree, but like
legit, like I really like you.
So that's really bringing mejoy.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
I love your answer because I feel like I'm at a
phase where, before anytransformation happens, we have
to start off with reallythinking about what part of me
got me to where I am, and thenyou accept that and then from
the acceptance of this is how Igot to the situation, and that
(04:27):
can definitely look like takingownership of my parts of where I
didn't speak up inrelationships, where I didn't
lay down boundaries, where Ioverlooked my own skills or
whatever that looks like for you.
We accept where we are and thenfrom there we end up moving to
a new perspective of how can Imake the shift, what's next
needed?
But I love that you started offwith accepting yourself and
(04:48):
liking yourself, because if wedon't like who we are in the
mirror, there's only one way tochange that, and that's to start
radically owning and beingtruthful with who you are.
Speaker 3 (04:59):
I love that.
You know, and when you weresaying that I was, I've been
really reflecting as we kind ofend off the year we're getting
closer and closer to the end of2025, is to make sure that I'm
in alignment, that I am inalignment, that my purpose is in
alignment with my vision, it'sin alignment with my actions,
(05:23):
it's in alignment with mydecisions, it's in alignment
with my decisions, it's inalignment with my behavior and I
have alignment with people.
And one of the things Irecognized was that, okay,
there's some things that are outof alignment, and so I just
kind of created this littlechecklist before I even meet
with someone, because peopledon't know this, I seem like I'm
a hard.
(05:44):
I'm a really hard person.
I was going to cuss.
There's no cuss.
I'm really a hard person, whichI am like I'm a go-getter, but
there are things that touch myheart where I can begin to
violate, like my own boundariesthat I've created.
So I had to look at the thingsand the behaviors and the
(06:05):
actions, and even down to thepeople I'm meeting with, and ask
myself number one is this amission-oriented interaction?
Is this a mission-orientedinteraction?
And if it is not in alignmentwith my mission, it's automatic.
It needs to be a no, it justneeds to be no.
(06:27):
And sometimes we think, as women, that you got to be nice.
Nice is not necessary.
Nice girls don't do anything.
Girls who are in alignment doeverything.
So I have to look at it and say, hey, is this in alignment with
my mission?
And then the next question isand I'm asking myself is is this
, is there?
What is the payoff, what's thereturn?
Sometimes there's an emotionalpayoff, but I have to make sure
(06:50):
that the payoff is not mevalidating myself by being in
someone else's presence.
I'm like I just got to watchthat.
I have to make sure that I'mnot trying to rescue someone.
I'm not trying to fix someone.
I'm not here, the super sister,savior, like.
I'm not getting that kind ofemotional payoff, but it's a
mission oriented payoff.
Where I'm where it's, it is inme to help this person, but not
(07:15):
to the detriment of my own self.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Oh, my God, I love that you just went there,
because I feel and the amount ofconversations I've been having
lately with women of, well, Ijust I don't know how to say no
and I'm like eventually you'regonna have to learn, because at
this point and I've gotten tothis point of my journey where
(07:40):
I'm learning to start settingboundaries and before it used to
be, I had this habit of like Iwould overexpress and I would
communicate and I would let youknow how I feel and why I feel
that you need to do whatever inaccordance to, like the boundary
I'm trying to set.
Now it's more clear cut.
I don't like this.
This is what I'm holding, thisis my standard.
(08:01):
Please let me know how you wantto go about it.
I accept that if you don't wantto follow that boundary, but
I've gotten to a point whereit's like I really don't care to
nourish a relationship thatdoesn't want to be aligned, as
you just said, with theboundaries I'm setting for
(08:22):
myself, the new standards I'mraising for myself.
Speaker 3 (08:25):
If you don't set your boundaries, then someone else
will Absolutely, and it's justlike are you okay with that?
And sometimes women people ingeneral I don't think that this
is a women thing, but it's notthat you can't say no, you're
uncomfortable with your no,you're actually trying to manage
somebody else's moods, theiractions and their internal state
.
It's a form of control.
(08:52):
So instead of just saying no tothem, you say yes, and I think
that there's some element ofpeople pleasing.
I don't want to appear mean,since when is saying no?
I can't go to the party beingmean, you're just letting people
know what your ability is, whatyour capacity is, but when you
don't say no, you end up doingthings that are nice but they're
not necessary.
And how does that work?
Speaker 2 (09:14):
Does it Long term?
It doesn't.
I mean, I think that I foundthe more that we do set our
standards essentially lower andaccept being that people pleaser
and doing what others areasking of us all the time.
I mean, obviously there's alevel of compromise, but I think
(09:35):
when you get to the point ofI'm at a state where I don't
feel this is necessary or thisis what I even really want to do
, it's not aligned and youcontinuously cross that boundary
within yourself because at thatpoint you're not, by not
setting the boundary with theother person, you're actually
avoiding the boundary withyourself.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
Some people don't even know what they want.
So in order for you to set aboundary for what you want, you
actually have to know what youwant.
Absolutely you have to knowwhat kind of relationship you
want.
Some people are like, well, I'mjust, you know, I just want
somebody, somebody.
But what kind of somebody youwant?
An abuse of somebody.
You want to broke down, somebodylike you got to define what you
(10:20):
want, and once you define whatyou want, you can set.
Then you set some standards forwhat you want.
And once you define what youwant, you can set.
Then you set some standards forwhat you want.
That's kind of what I think.
And then, once you set thestandard for what you want, now
you have the ability to set theboundary for what you want.
So it's not like, okay, I'mjust setting boundaries, yes,
but what's the end?
Why?
It's going to go back to what Iwant, and for me, it's my
(10:43):
purpose.
So if I just end up saying yesto everyone and anyone, somebody
sent me a message and they werelike hey, like, can we get
together?
And I first question is thismission oriented?
No, so no.
It looked like saying no.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
No, I mean when you say Looked like saying no, even
though I'm at it in a nice way.
Oh, what does mission orientedlook like?
So, obviously there's the grandscheme of things of what you're
wanting to do with yourcoaching and your business and
the impact you want to leavewith the world.
But on a personal scale, whatdoes that look like for you?
Speaker 3 (11:21):
Really it's connected to my greater purpose.
My purpose is really to helpwomen walk out their purpose,
and being on mission means thatI'm I am really coaching and
speaking.
So in this season it's reallyfocusing on my business and
focusing on things that reallymake Cherie a better her, and
the reason why is because Ispent a lot of years pouring
(11:45):
into everyone else's vision andnot pouring into my own.
So I'm actually using my pastperformance as a reason why I
won't stay stuck.
So I just I look at it and Ijust say, hey, you know what, at
this stage of my life, likethis is just not a good idea,
and I do a lot of futuring.
So I don't know if you heardthis.
(12:07):
When you look at your decisionsor you look at something that
you're going to say to someone,think to yourself what kind of
impact is this going to have in10 hours?
What kind of impact is it goingto have in 10 days?
What kind of impact is it goingto have in 10 months?
What kind of impact is it goingto have in 10 years?
And you, just, kind of impactis it going to have in 10 years?
And you kind of you just kindof future and it's like in 10
(12:27):
hours.
I already knew if I say yes tothis, I'm going to be frustrated
, because I know that's 120minutes of my time that didn't
go into my greater mission, andthen you do that there's a
cumulative effect.
Cumulative effect if that, ifit's 120 minutes here and 120
minutes there and 120 minutesthere, that's 360 minutes.
(12:51):
Let's keep going.
Now we're going to stretch itout to 10 months and you have
over 15 000 minutes of spendingtime on things that kept you
stuck.
And it's not their fault,it's's yours, it's my fault.
How about you?
Like?
How are you setting boundaries?
I mean it looks differently.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
I had a relationship recently that was no longer
serving me, so that person hadset boundaries and the
boundaries were in such a statethat there was no compromise and
for me I realized I am not okaymeeting your boundaries.
(13:34):
I understand where you might becoming from when you had said
it and this person said it yearsago, and for me I was just like
this is where I'm at at thiscurrent phase of my life.
I am no longer treating myself,allowing myself excuse me to be
treated in certain types ofways.
(13:55):
So if that requires meshrinking, if that requires me
hiding, if that requires me toonly be available to connect at
certain hours, I am not okaywith that at this phase.
So I set a loving boundary andat the end of that boundary, the
way I communicated it, I waslike this is me finally just
(14:18):
choosing myself.
Now I have not heard from thatperson since I've done it, but
when I went into thatinteraction I was very clear if
I lose you, it is what it is thedoor will always be open on
your part, but things have toshift on how we interact at this
(14:39):
point, and so, while it couldbe very hard and there was tears
there was are you actually sureyou want to do this?
Was it's time to let thisrelationship go if they're not
(15:03):
willing to step up to thestandard that you are now
walking from?
Because I realized kind ofaligned with what you were
saying about if it doesn't fitmy mission, how can I be walking
around telling women I want toelevate them and I want them to
feel like they're able to beseen and heard authentically, if
(15:25):
I'm allowing myself to besidelined in a relationship?
And so that alone, thatcounterbalance of what I was
accepting versus what I know Ishould be accepting, was so
drastic that I had to make thatshift.
Speaker 3 (15:45):
I love that and I think that it's just something
that's necessary, that you haveto do.
While I can't control whatpeople think, I don't want
people to think that, hey, I'msetting a boundary, we don't set
boundaries to punish people.
I love what you saidcompromising with people and
collaborating, because sometimesI realize that my boundary is
actually so rigid that no onecould cross it and that doesn't
(16:09):
help me grow If I'm not willingto have a collaborative
relationship with people.
I think what we're both talkingabout is really a pattern.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (16:20):
A pattern where it's you're always violating your
internal boundaries.
So by nature, you're alwaysviolating your internal
boundaries.
So by nature, you're going toviolate external boundaries.
And that leads to the abilityof you just not saying no.
But sometimes I've setboundaries like OK, I'm only
going to do this on this day.
And then I recognize like OK,so, for example really good
examples I'm only going to havemy doctor's appointments only on
(16:42):
Fridays.
This is when I can do it.
And it's like, yeah, that's notlike real life, You'll actually
be going when they can do it.
Yeah.
So it's like like I have to bewilling to have some flexibility
in my life.
It's not like this, just thisrigid structure.
And if you, if you don't align,you know, get out of here, get,
(17:06):
get out of my way or follow me.
No, it's, it's hailing.
Let me just have like somestructure and some guiding
principles to get me to my NorthStar, instead of just like
wishing and like, oh, I'm goingto just manifest some stuff, you
can manifest it, but you've gotto structure it to manifest it.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
Absolutely.
It's all about the alignedaction when it comes to the
manifesting.
But for me I think what you'vesaid about not being so rigid is
so important, because I feellike a lot of times what we hear
is this concept of like onceyou've set your standard,
there's no swaying from it.
(17:40):
Swaying from and to a portionof it, I do agree.
Once you set the standard, youset your expectations, you kind
of meet that.
But then there's thatunderstanding, especially in the
relationship dynamic of theother person's needs are
different, the way theycommunicate is different and the
(18:01):
way they even just their fiveone love languages can be very
different from who you are.
So for me, even having set thatboundary recently, I was just
like I'm willing for adiscussion, I'm willing to come
with you to a compromise, butall I know is the current set
standards do not work for who Iam in this current season of
(18:23):
life.
What was accepted 9-10 yearsago is not going to be accepted
in this phase of my life goingforward, especially as I'm
getting stronger in that missionorientation and just my purpose
and my vision for what I reallywant to see out for women.
And so when we talk about justbeing aligned.
(18:44):
I think there needs to be thatflexibility to allow yourself to
align in a way that actuallybenefits for all parties
involved.
I love that.
Speaker 3 (18:56):
And I do think that it's really important just
thinking about standards.
I have standards, but otherpeople have standards, so I have
to be I love what you saidunderstanding that people have
their own desires, their ownmotives, their own wishes and I
have to adjust.
I do have to make adjustments,like I'm not like queen bee,
like that's not that that you,you can't operate and work with
(19:18):
people if you're like that, soI'm definitely willing to to to
adhere to someone else'sstandards and respect them where
they are in a really good place.
That this works for me is in myrelationships my relationship
with my spouse, my relationshipwith my adult kids, my
relationship with other people.
So, for example, if my daughterwas over the house yesterday or
(19:40):
the day before and she wastalking about some things that
was going on in her life andshe's got a roommate, so I
started saying stuff and myhusband's like no, no, saying
stuff, no, and so I had to goback and apologize and just say,
hey, you're an adult.
(20:00):
Just because I think thisdoesn't mean you need to hear it
.
She has the right to make herown decisions without my
influence or my control.
That's when people get intooffering their services where
it's not needed and it's notnecessary and I 100% started.
(20:23):
I didn't even realize I wasdoing it and I was violating her
standards, and so I apologize.
And and I'm not.
I'm not.
We all know we're not perfect,but I haven't arrived at the
queen of the boundary and thequeen of the standards.
I have to make sure that I Irespect other people and respect
that they have their own inneralignment.
(20:45):
And who said that I need?
I am the chief operatingofficer of your thoughts.
You're not under my control.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
Right, you know.
As you got into the subject ofcontrol, what areas of life do
you find that most people try tocontrol, not in relationships,
but generally?
What parts do you think or doyou perceive are being they're
trying to grasp onto?
Speaker 3 (21:12):
what parts do people try to control?
I think in working with womenyou're not going to like this,
but it's true, or maybe they'renot going to like this we try to
control other people's moods,their behavior, their thoughts.
(21:34):
That's the very first area.
That's where that peoplepleasing comes in, and moms are
notorious for doing this.
I'm just trying to help.
Does it have something to say?
I just want to fix it.
You're trying to controlinstead of allowing it to just
be what it is.
(21:55):
But that really goes down toyou being uncomfortable with
someone else's discomfort, andso you try to go in, you try to
step in and you try to fix thesituation.
I am the classicover-functioner, like I have a
little bit of a the savior, thesister savior.
(22:16):
I'll fix it, I get it.
I got it.
But really what I'm trying todo is I'm trying to control your
mood, your thoughts, yourbehavior.
With what?
With my great ideas?
What do you think I?
Speaker 2 (22:32):
love that you touched on this, because human moments
are coming full circle.
I had this exact situationhappen to me Thursday, friday of
last week, and it was I livewith my mom very common in our
culture.
But I found she was in a moodis how I will put it.
(22:53):
I don't know if anyone else hasthat innate kind of ability
when you're living with someonefor so long and you can kind of
tell when they're going from I'mangry to pissed off to I'm
about to blow the lid off ofsomething, just by their
emotions, not even by anythingthey're actually saying.
And I remember having thisthought of like I really should
(23:17):
go try to calm her down.
I really should like go try tohave an understanding of what's
going on with her, go try tohave an understanding of what's
going on with her.
And I honestly had to step backand be like am I trying to
disvalidate whatever you'refeeling right now?
Because it also came from theunderstanding and I'm trying to
(23:39):
get better at this is takingthat pause, to be like I don't
control your circumstance andyour feelings.
But it takes a whole notherlevel when you're in that space
with somebody.
So I gently went up to her andI was like, hey, what's going on
?
And she was just like I'mstressed about this.
And she started listing off andshe had a lot of feelings.
(24:02):
So she listed off her feelingsall very valid and I just simply
was like, right now, do youwant me to offer advice, to
listen to you, or to just shutup?
And most people, I think, forgetthat sometimes all you need is
(24:23):
just to be listened to.
Yeah, and so I think the nicepart about being a coach is you
start to pick up on those cues.
But because her and I are sointertwined, I don't always know
what version of me she needs.
So I'm like you tell me what isbeen most beneficial for you
(24:44):
right now.
And she just was like it's along night, you go take care of
yourself, get ready for bed, Iwill fix it Like I will deal
with myself.
Now, having looked back at thatwith a different perspective, I
realized she just needed to feelwhatever it was.
And I think so often,especially in our space, we try
(25:07):
to.
How can I fix thisinstantaneously, not let it sit,
not sit with the discomfort ofthese harsher emotions, and just
move past them.
And what I've come to realizepersonally is sometimes you just
need a minute, and I'm notsaying take the entire day or
(25:27):
take a week to wallow in somenegative feelings, but when they
come up, I do think there'ssomething to acknowledging that
there's feelings that are comingup and doing the identification
of what it is that's comingthrough for you.
Speaker 3 (25:44):
Couldn't have said it better myself.
Couldn't have said it bettermyself because when we try to
fix people over functioningwomen a classic over functioner,
and I can say this because Itotally am what we're really
doing is we're avoiding our ownpain.
So all of our people issues areactually internal issues.
Absolutely everything's amirror.
(26:06):
This person's not the problem.
It's actually my reaction tothem.
That's the problem.
I love that you went there.
It's not them and I'm nottalking about like abuse.
That's not what I'm talkingabout.
I'm talking about our dailyinteractions and our
relationships with people.
I was in a conversation with myhusband and I'm like wanting to
(26:28):
get up and I was like wait aminute, just like you.
What's going on here?
Why is it?
I have a pattern of behaviorwhere I want to get up and I was
like wait a minute.
This actually has it does havesomething to do with him, but it
has something to do with me.
So I just asked myself wait,let's do a little emotional
(26:50):
regulation.
Number one what are you feelingemotionally?
What are you feeling?
My stomach is tightening.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
I love that.
You went straight to where thebody is feeling it too.
Where is it?
Speaker 3 (27:25):
My stomach is tightening.
What's the emotion?
And I realized I felt helpless.
I felt helpless and then it'sokay.
Why?
What's the thought?
Because he's actuallyfrustrated and there's nothing I
can do to fix it.
So my wanting to get up orclose off it wasn't that he was.
The issue is that there was anavoidance of my own emotions
that were the issue.
So we have to learn, like whenwe're in conversations with
people, especially people whokind of like get you going is we
have to regulate our emotions.
(27:45):
So what am I feeling in my body?
What is the emotion that comesup for me?
Feel it, face it.
Then the most important part iswhat is the thought driving the
emotion?
Okay, now, how can I change thethought Instead of trying to
fix it?
Okay, I got it out.
Just ask a question hey, whatdo you think that you should do?
(28:11):
I'm not his inner compass, he'shis inner compass, absolutely.
I'm not trying to master him,I'm actually trying to master me
, and I think that that's liketaking that emotional regulation
, especially in those situationswhere there's you know, you
have those relationships wherethere's a high amount of
(28:32):
emotional reactivity.
You have to actually learn howto regulate yourself.
And if you don't know how.
Then I just say, hey, you knowwhat, maybe we need to come back
to this at another time becauseI can't regulate myself.
You know, they say the amygdalais the emotional processing
center in the brain and when itgets lit up, emotions go up,
(28:54):
logic goes down.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
I love that you said that, and especially starting
off with the body, because,quite frankly, I think most
people totally miss how muchyour body is attuned to what's
going on with you, and so,personally for me, I've learned
that anytime I'm triggeredwhether that's through a
(29:17):
conversation, something I'mlooking at online, something
that's heck it could be thetraffic on the way here I
realize my triggers are myteachers, because, more than it
being about the other person orthe situation or the thing
that's not going my way, Irealized the triggers that are
(29:41):
triggering me are there to pointout where I have not yet grown
or something that I have notfaced, even if I thought I have
done so.
Because I think in our space, alot of times people want to act
like, once you hit a certainlevel, you no longer have issues
and what I've personally foundI will have reoccurring themes
(30:07):
of things I'm working on that,as I hit, new levels come up,
and so recently it was.
I have a deep-seated, lovelyabandonment wound and that
started to peak its head and Iwas just like I have done all
this work on it.
Why is it not?
And then I realized, yes, I'vedone work on it, but how has
(30:32):
this version of myself done thework on it?
Because, as we hit new levels,that gap between where we were
and where we are shifts, and soyou need to be constantly
working on that consciousness.
That goes along with it, in myopinion.
Speaker 3 (30:53):
For some reason, I just thought you said so much
yummy stuff.
Triggers are teachers.
So my first thought is that'slike I'm gonna have to steal
that.
So that's my problem.
I'm like triggers are teachers.
I love that because ourtriggers tell us something and,
like when I go through women,through my power experience, we
look at their emotional pattern,because all of us have this
(31:16):
emotional pattern.
But one of the things thatkeeps us from dealing with the
emotions is we're avoiding ouremotions and it's because we are
so busy trying to manageeveryone else.
One of the things I did is Isaid you know what?
I'm on an opinion detox.
I love pot.
(31:38):
I went on an opinion detox.
Why?
Because my opinion doesn'tmatter.
Because you think about that.
Think about the energy it takesto have a thought.
Think about the creative powerin your mind that it takes to
have and formulate a thought.
Now think about all of yourthoughts that are about other
(32:00):
people, what they should bedoing, who Kris Jenner should be
with.
Who Miley Cyrus should besinging with.
Who, like all whatever thesecelebrities should be with.
Who Miley Cyrus should besinging with.
Who, like all whatever thesecelebrities should be doing.
The opinions and the energythat you spend on others is not
spent on self.
Energy spent one place is notbeing spent another place.
(32:25):
And I and like I would say likeI'm not a kind of person, I'm
not a busybody, I don't reallyget involved in people's
opinions, but it's sneakybecause I'll find myself just
cleaning, doing the dishes,doing whatever, and I've got all
these opinions about what otherpeople should be doing with
their life.
Nobody asked you who needs Godwhen we have your opinion,
(32:46):
sheree.
Okay, I don't like this.
I am wasting the creativeenergy that God gave me on
people who have nothing to dowith me.
I cannot fix their problems, Iam not their therapist, I do not
hold the line.
I should not be making the call.
So I was like, okay, let me nowpay close attention to what's
(33:10):
happening with me.
And it's amazing how now I havethis amount of creative energy
because I'm not spending it onother people, but we end up
ignoring our triggers becausewe're using that energy on other
people.
So that was my thought aboutthat.
And then you talked about growth, just how we grow into all
things, and I was readingearlier today, like this morning
(33:32):
, as a matter of fact, abouttrees, and trees, when you look
at like classic literature.
A lot of times they're symbolicof growth and I didn't know
this.
But trees have growth scars.
But trees have growth scars.
I read it this morning.
They have growth scars.
(33:53):
So the scar, the last scar, isjust the point of growth.
It indicates the point ofgrowth.
So whenever, like theabandonment wound or whatever
the wound is, all that is is youjust need to grow.
It's just an indication.
Oh, it comes up.
It doesn't mean that I'm stillstruggling with the wound.
(34:15):
I'm actually growing beyond thewound.
I'm growing.
But again, you will not know ifyou can grow if you're spending
all of your time, your energy,the mental resources of your
mind on other people's lifeinstead of your life.
Beautiful.
Speaker 2 (34:40):
Absolutely how to try to control these situations,
whether that's financial or evenas simple as controlling the
mentalities of kind of likelineage cycle situations right.
The more you spend the energyof I need to shift a perspective
(35:01):
or I need to do this, you'reactually releasing the ability
to make the change that youactually want.
And what I mean by that is, Irealized, the more I'm sitting
here trying to prove a certainperspective or prove a certain
point to be understood andperceived in a certain way, the
(35:24):
more it ends up just losing itspower how'd you find that out?
Speaker 3 (35:32):
I'm curious.
Speaker 2 (35:38):
So I think what's great for me is, as I've stepped
further, deeper into mybusiness, I find that business
is spiritual, so you find thatall your things will come up.
Anything you thought that youhave, that you've worked on, I
will tell you.
You will find a new perspectiveon how to work through it then.
And as I've started to stepinto that light, I realized I
(36:04):
came from a very young age oflike I need to prove and I need
to earn my worth and I am goingto show you to earn my worth and
I am going to show you.
And I finally got to a pointand this is very fresh where I
(36:27):
was speaking to someone and I gowell, tell me about myself,
what is your perspective of me?
Because and it wasn't from a Ineed your validation.
But when you've spent your yearstrying to prove to people who
you are and that mentality,everything I thought I was
proving was nothing of what theywere seeing.
It was very maybe 2% of what Ithought.
(36:50):
So it got me to realize, justoff of that interaction and then
looking out, overarching oflike, just the themes that were
reoccurring in my life orcertain relationships, how they
were navigating, and I realizedfor me.
I got to a place where it wasjust like you don't see me
(37:13):
because I'm not showing you theauthentic version of myself and
I'm being this person that I'veshapeshifted into being, so you
will see me, love me, approve ofme, think I am worthy, whatever
.
And I realized they're missingthe whole person on the other
(37:35):
side.
So all that effort, all thatperception was essentially for
nothing, and I realized theoverarching theme is when you
get to a point where you nolonger need to prove and you can
be just authentic and messy andnot perfect.
(37:56):
That's one things peopleexperience is start to magnetize
.
It's not that version of youthat you think you have to be.
Speaker 3 (38:06):
I like that.
It's stepping into who youalready are.
Absolutely, yeah, I, there issomething about us, or that you
know you have a business oryou're a manager, you're a
director, you're workingsomewhere that you have to prove
.
Now you do need to bring value.
Of course you need to bringvalue, you need to bring your
skill set, but sometimes we canmistake our value for our worth,
(38:30):
us giving value for my worth,our value for our worth.
I was giving value for my worth, and that goes back to how I
help women to stopover-functioning, because it's
like, oh, the more I do, I'vegot to prove, you know that I'm
doing a good job To a degree inyour work.
Yes, you want to do a good job,but there does hit a point
where you're trying to getvalidation from people instead
(38:53):
of validating yourself.
Speaker 2 (39:02):
A line that's been very potent for me in this
season of life is convictionover validation.
So what do I mean by thatConviction?
Having the certainty withinyourself, certainty that your
gifts are being given to you bycreator, god, universe, whatever
you call it.
Having that certainty and theknowing that whatever it is
that's placed on your heart isgoing to be set out for you
(39:24):
otherwise it wouldn't be placed.
There takes a lot of action onyour part, but it's not about
the external validation then,people that you want for either
watching or on the sidelines, orwho you think you can impress.
It's not about needing theiropinions to match that.
(39:46):
It's about re-coming to a placeof.
I believe God gave me thismessage, or God gave me this
purpose, and I need to alignmyself with what his vision is,
and having that knowing and thatessentially belief that it'll
(40:07):
come to fruition at the end ofthe day, because so much of us
especially women, I find arelooking for how can I make a
point to others, how can I bebasically just again, how do I
prove that I'm worth it, or howcan I earn your love, big one,
(40:33):
and I realized, at the end ofthe day, I don't need the
validation from others.
All I need validation from isGod.
Speaker 3 (40:43):
I agree, I agree.
I think that that's why Ireally work with women to
understand their purpose,because it was a life changing
for me.
Once I got clear on my visionand my purpose, I knew exactly
what I was supposed to be doing.
So your opinion may be nice,but it's just not necessary.
I no longer need your opinionto fill my own self.
(41:05):
So it's like you need to useyour voice, but before you can
use your voice, you need to knowyour voice, know what that
voice is here to say and thenwhat these hands are meant to do
.
It's my responsibility to knowmy purpose.
It's my responsibility to givemyself my own validation.
My validation comes from God.
(41:28):
Now, do I want people around me?
Of course I want people aroundme, but I'm not gonna allow
their mood, their opinion, theirthoughts to now get me to
shrink and now I have badbehavior.
It's very important to knowwhat your purpose is, and I
think the reason why is becauseif you don't know your purpose,
(41:49):
you can misuse your purpose.
You know, like this phone, mycell phone here well the purpose
.
It has multiple purposes, butit's there to make phone calls,
but you know what I can do.
I can take this phone and I canthrow it, yeah, but that's not
its intended purpose.
Now, it would be effective andit would hurt someone, but I
would be misusing it.
(42:10):
Why would I want to misuse it?
Why would I want to misuse it?
Why would I want to misuse it?
Because when I do that, I missout on all the functionality
that it was designed for.
And I think it's the same thingwith our life.
When we don't know our purpose,more than likely we're living
someone else's purpose and youmiss out on everything.
(42:32):
You miss out on the gifts inyour life, the calling in your
life.
You're going to miss out withpeople in your life and it
really goes back to youunderstanding your purpose.
So I'm like, hey, like let'shelp you understand.
Like your life is a story andyou can rewrite it.
But you need to know, just useyour voice, know why do you have
(42:54):
this voice.
And once you find that out,it's like, hey, I've gotten this
part of validation, like wedon't grow out of like not
wanting validation, because Ican go into that with clients
and with students.
You know you want to do a goodjob and go into over functioning
and you want people to get agood experience.
But take a step back.
(43:14):
Wait a minute.
I'm already validated.
I already have validation.
So I do what I do, not to tryto get validation.
I do what I do because I havevalidation.
What do you think?
Speaker 2 (43:28):
I love this, I really do, because absolutely, I agree
, 100%.
And what question kind of camethrough for me, for those who
are listening right now, what is?
It's a double whammy.
So what is a way to find theirvoice?
And, on the back end of that,how does finding their voice
(43:49):
translate to finding theirpurpose?
Speaker 3 (43:51):
Oh, that's so good.
What is a way to find theirvoice?
Well, first of all, if you findit, you need to know where you
lost it.
That's, I mean, that's such agood way.
Where did you lose it?
So now we track back.
Where did I begin to lose myvoice?
It was probably with some pain.
(44:11):
There was probably a moment, aperson, a situation where,
instead of you losing using yourvoice, you lost your voice, and
if you look at that situationin your life, it's a very
painful point.
And now you've got to extractfrom that very painful point the
(44:36):
lessons that you learned.
What was the lesson that youlearned from that very painful
situation?
And out of those lessons and Igo deeper in this you need to
(45:00):
say who needs these lessons, whoare the people that need these
lessons?
Then now, how can I use myvoice to give people those
lessons?
So for me, I just take a stepback.
Where did it happen?
Oh, my gosh, it happened withmy son being diagnosed with
special needs.
Wait a minute, I shrunk.
What were the lessons I learned?
I'm more than the people aroundme.
I am more than a wife.
I'm more than a mother.
I am a person, I am powerful,I'm capable, I'm a bad chick and
(45:24):
you can get over pain.
My voice was it doesn't matterwhat has happened to you, you
can overcome this pain.
Now.
Then I said oh, who needs thisvoice?
Women, women, women who havebeen through a divorce tragedy
(45:45):
with a loved one, who haveshrunk in their life, who have
shrunk to their past trauma.
If I hold back my voice, theyrisk losing their voice.
So now I see, oh, this is aresponsibility, which is why we
cannot be depending on everybodyelse's validation for the
(46:05):
purpose that God gave us.
What about you?
Speaker 2 (46:09):
This is so good.
I knew this conversation wouldbe juicy and I am so grateful
we're having this because for me, I definitely had this moment
even recently.
So I love that we're havingthis conversation because I've
started to use my voice and forthe longest time I had this
(46:31):
moment of starting to payattention to signs and
synchronicities and kind ofthings that are happening in
your life, because I realizedthere are no coincidences.
They all kind of lead tocertain things.
And there was one day I wasdoing a meditation and there's a
song called Speechless whichwas in the Latin movie the
(46:52):
remake, our live-action version,and it just started playing
while I was meditating and inthe lyrics of that song it's
essentially there's a part whereit's like the story is ending
of essentially not using yourvoice, of not being the story is
(47:14):
ending, of essentially notusing your voice, of not being
in power with your voice.
And I remember listening tothat during that meditation
because, if I laid out how ithappened, it was playing in the
living room, I was doing mymeditation in my bedroom and I
was just like this does nothappen, normally, this does not
(47:37):
happen, and I just had amilestone moment, and so I
remember just being verydistraught about why is the
house not quiet at 4 am at thatday.
And I remember walking out tothe living room and hearing the
lyrics of this song and I wasjust like and ironically that
song finished and literallynothing else played afterwards
(47:58):
and I was like same reaction.
I was like that alone was amessage.
And so I was sitting theregoing, okay, so that's a message
, what is this message from?
And I started to realize inthat moment and it planted a
seed of realizing that I was notusing my voice, I had shut off
(48:22):
my voice.
And so it was this link of howdo I figure out where I stopped.
Where I stopped.
And, like you said, it was amoment of pain, of immense pain
that had a lot to do with mygeneral wounding.
(48:43):
But it took me about six, eightmonths from that meditation day
to really realize, okay, I knowI'm not using my voice.
And as I started to progress anduse the voice and start to own
who I am in my authentic skin, Irealized slowly, why are that
(49:07):
missing link was because it wasa repressed memory, and so it
being from a point of pain isabsolutely usually the truth,
because we don't just comethrough this planet and be like
you know what?
I'm not going to live my mostauthentic expression.
If you look at little children,that's why they're so beautiful
(49:29):
.
They're in their own essence.
They're not afraid of being toomuch, they're not afraid of
being too little.
I will take up the space and Iwill own it, and I am not
apologizing for it.
But somewhere along the linefrom being that child that's
fully expressing themselves, youfind yourself in this gap of
how do I mold to make mom happyor dad happy or people at school
(49:55):
happy?
How do I fit in?
And the more we start thinkingthose thoughts and conforming
our personalities, the more welose who we are authentically.
Speaker 1 (50:06):
Yeah, that's so good.
Speaker 3 (50:08):
I believe that to be so true.
Yeah, little kids, they justthey are who they are.
And I always say you are not,you're not born with
insecurities.
Speaker 2 (50:16):
Somebody taught you to have them early on, because
(50:37):
when I've started to do a lot ofthe inner child healing on
myself, I realized, whilethere's certain points of
certain phrases hey, don't dothat, it's not safe, you mean
well by it.
But by instilling it you'reactually instilling the fear and
it ends up being a stacking ofthis human experience that we
all go through to some degree.
So I just there's something tobe said about trying to find
(51:01):
that most authentic expressionof yourself, whatever that looks
like.
Speaker 1 (51:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (51:05):
I love that.
I'm so grateful for you.
Speaker 3 (51:09):
I'm so happy.
Speaker 2 (51:09):
Thank you, thank you so, at this point in life, what
would you say?
You're noticing the themes ofemotional resistance with women.
Speaker 3 (51:30):
At this point in my life I noticed that the themes
as far as emotional resistancewith women is being comfortable
with very uncomfortable emotionsthat can be very difficult,
especially the older that peopleget, because I mean I'm almost
50, so I can say this I shelooks great for her age I
haven't been anybody, but you'veheard of people being set in
their ways.
Yeah, and like.
I'm not changing, like this isthe way it's always been.
(51:52):
It's because we can become souncomfortable with our emotions
and it actually takes a lot ofcognitive energy to deal with
something that's veryuncomfortable and to just let it
sit.
Yeah, and it is, it is.
It's in the more you live life,the more experiences good and
bad that you have, the moreexperiences good and bad that
(52:15):
you have.
So that ability to sit withvery uncomfortable emotions
breeds and builds emotionalresilience, which we all need.
So we have to learn how to justsit in it.
I'm not saying stay in it, feelit, rise above it.
Speaker 2 (52:32):
Yeah, 100%.
I think when we're afraid ofsitting in the uncomfortable,
that's when we're actually doingmore harm to ourselves than
good, because what I've noticedis the more you repress and you
suppress emotions, the more yourbody just holds on to it,
(52:53):
whereas the discomfort ofsitting with it is not great,
but at least you're no longerstoring it.
Speaker 1 (52:59):
Right.
Speaker 2 (53:01):
So I'm going to go ahead and kind of give you an
off-the-cuff question now.
What would you say?
What would be a moment for youwhere you felt like, okay, I'm
starting to step out and stepinto this like leadership or
boldness, where you felt likeyou're finally stepping into who
(53:22):
you were?
Speaker 3 (53:25):
It actually involved people, because I had, you know,
we have this side it's calledthe blind side, where it's
Chihari's window.
But it's called the blind sidewhere people's Chihari's window,
but it's called the blind sidewhere people can see, but you
can't see and I did not see whatI was doing.
So it took having some goodpeople to say, hey, we've
(53:47):
noticed that you're a gatherer,we noticed that you're a leader.
So I had people around me thatspoke life into me, because I,
yes, I do believe in innerresilience, be sovereign, self
mastery, but there is only somuch that your own self knows.
There's always gonna be anaspect to you that you can't see
(54:10):
good and bad.
That's why I love your questionof hey, how do you experience
me?
What is it that you can't see?
Good and bad?
That's why I love your questionof hey, how do you experience
me?
What is it that you see?
And so, having people around methat said, hey, like we think
you're a leader, their spark wasalready there.
They just ignited it.
It was like flickering like agat, like on your gas stove, and
(54:33):
all they did was just turn itand it lit up, because I didn't
even recognize all of the growththat was happening on the
inside of me, and that was thebeginning of my what I would
call my self-mastery journey.
Speaker 2 (54:45):
I love that you mentioned people, because I
think so much of our space istended to be very self-reliant,
and a conversation I was justrecently having with a friend
because she had asked.
She posed the question well,when you are in these lower
(55:06):
energy states we'll call it whodo you turn to?
And I was like well, quitehonestly, I and this was a
patterning I had since I wasyoung I tend to just work on it
myself, I will cocoon, I willself-store, not let anybody into
this mess, and then,potentially, once I've already
(55:29):
navigated it, that is when Iwill come back and be like hey,
I had this breakdown, but here'sthe breakthrough that came out
of it.
And she was just like that'snot necessarily normal, because
we're humans that are meant tohave this connection and this
vulnerability and theseconversations, because what I
(55:52):
might be experiencing might besomething that you're mirroring,
that you don't realize, but ifI'm not open and willing to have
that discussion, you don't knowit, you don't benefit from it,
and so for me, it's alsorealizing when you're allowing
yourself to be vulnerable andwhen you're allowing yourself to
(56:14):
actually be authentic.
It also helps those around yousee you and fully see you.
Whereas I think there was apoint of me where I would have
these heavy emotions and I wouldsit with them and I would
process and I would do thebreath work and I would, I would
(56:34):
work my way out of it andthat's great, because at least
I'm not dependent if a person isnot able to meet me there.
But I realized, coming to theseason of like, oh, it's OK to
take off the mask and be likeI'm human and I still go through
shit.
I'm human and I still gothrough shit, and so, like what
(56:55):
your friends are doing for you,that ignition when we know our
depths and we show our depthsbut we also show our value.
That's what people actuallynotice about us.
It's not about how perfect andhow much of a mask can I have on
.
Speaker 3 (57:12):
I think we all I said this before I think I might
have said this that I reallybelieve we're not called to be
independent, we're called to beinterdependent.
No one who ever did anythinggreat did it alone.
Speaker 1 (57:24):
Absolutely.
You need community.
Speaker 3 (57:26):
We look at Harriet Tubman and, yes, she I don't
want to call her the queen ofthe railroad, but she actually
had connections and shecollaborated with people Winston
Churchill, abraham Lincoln,oprah, it's through
collaboration that gives yougreater competence, but being by
yourself just makes you weird.
Speaker 2 (57:48):
Yeah, yeah, I love that you ended it that way.
Okay, so quick fire round.
Yeah, I love that you ended itthat way.
Okay, so quick fire round.
I've slightly shifted theconversation questions because
you've already done this once,so what's?
Speaker 3 (58:06):
a recent book that you find has changed your life?
Emotional Okay, it's by LauraVernick.
It's so good.
Emotional relationships.
Oh my gosh, I'm going to get itwrong.
Speaker 2 (58:15):
I will put the title in the show notes.
Speaker 3 (58:17):
Yes, but right now I'm reading by Nona Jones
Rejection is Protection, it'sfire.
Speaker 2 (58:23):
Oh, I love that title alone.
Speaker 3 (58:24):
I'm going to have to get it.
Rejection is Protection, sogood.
Speaker 2 (58:27):
So good, okay, so what's?
A song that instantly liftsyour mood?
Rocky song that instantly liftsyour mood.
Rocky mama said knock you outlike those are my go-tos.
They love you, so okay.
What's one relationship lessonyou wish you'd learned sooner
you have one mouth, two ears.
Speaker 3 (58:52):
What do you think that means?
Speaker 2 (58:58):
mouth two ears.
What do you think that means?
Speaker 3 (59:00):
beautiful a place in the world that makes you feel
the most alive, oh, my goodness,outside of vegas, outside of
vegas, most alive, well, as ofright now.
I'm really loving utah.
I just love going up there.
Speaker 2 (59:09):
It's so serene and beautiful okay, I need to check
out Utah more.
Apparently Best advice you'veever received in one sentence.
Speaker 3 (59:20):
The best advice I've ever received in one sentence.
The only thing that comes tomind is who needs God?
When we have your opinion,Clearly my opinion is not
necessary.
Speaker 2 (59:39):
I love that.
If you weren't doing this work,what would you be doing?
Oh my gosh, I'd have my owntalk show.
You'd be great.
I love people.
I love people.
You'd be so good at it.
Okay, morning person or nightowl'm morning, I can tell one
thing you want women to stopapologizing for, and that's our
(01:00:02):
heavy hitter for the end.
Speaker 3 (01:00:03):
Oh yeah, one.
One thing I want women to stopapologizing for is their story I
love this, thank you.
Speaker 2 (01:00:12):
This was such a beautiful conversation and kind
of like dual interview situation, but I love the way that you're
just so all for women.
Your heart is of service and Ijust I want to acknowledge you,
because there's not a lot ofwomen who are allowing
themselves to fully be out thereand fully be outspoken about
(01:00:35):
their stories, and I think thatthe way you use your story is
beautiful and I'm just sohonored to know you and I'm so
glad to be able to haveconversations that are so of
value for this collectiveconsciousness.
Speaker 3 (01:00:47):
Thank you.
Thank you, anita, and I'm sohonored to be a part of you and
what you're doing and the HERmethod and all of the things.
So thank you for having me.
It was 100% awesome.
And thank you for tuning in too.
Speaker 2 (01:01:01):
And that's it, until the next episode.
If you liked what you heardtoday, please go ahead and leave
a review down below and reachout to us on Instagram to let us
know your thoughts.
Our handles will be in the shownotes and until next time.
Bye for now.
Speaker 4 (01:01:21):
Thank you for rising with me today.
If this episode moved, youshare it.
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Welcome to the Rise With Anita podcast, the space
where soul meets strategy anddreams are no longer optional.
I'm your host, anitaCurdine-Gruz, a transformational
mindset coach and founder ofthe Her Method.
This show is for the woman whoknows she's meant for more.
If you have the call to risehigher that sometimes feels
trapped by her old stories,patterns or circumstances, here
(00:22):
we don't just talk about growth,we embody it.
We activate the woman inside ofyou who leads, who creates, who
claims her next level.
You'll hear a mix of soloepisodes from me and interviews
with soul-driven leaders, thebest in their fields, who live
what they teach and rise byexample.
Each conversation is a catalystfor your next breakthrough.
You're not broken.
(00:43):
You're breaking through.
Let's go ahead and risetogether.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Welcome back to the Rise with Anita podcast.
On today's episode I have ourfirst returning guest.
Sherry McCain-Jones is backwith us.
Last time when she was in ourspace, she lit it on fire with
raw truth, unshakable wisdom andthe kind of presence that makes
you sit up straighter andbreathe deeper.
(01:10):
She walked us through herjourney of surviving domestic
violence and abuse I will haveto cut that out To embody her
worth raising four incrediblechildren, building a
purpose-driven business andreclaiming her voice, not just
to be heard but to heal, leadand love from wholeness.
(01:34):
And the moment, honestly, we met, I had a feeling that we would
be not just having oneconversation on our podcast, but
multiple.
So here we are because, let'sjust be honest, she doesn't just
tell a story, she activatessomething in you.
She reminds you about yourmicro decisions, which matter,
(01:55):
that discipline is a lovelanguage to yourself and that
your relationships romantic,familial or your own soul
deserve to be safe, powerful andexpansive.
So today we're about to dive abit deeper.
This episode is a little bitoff the cuff, but I think this
is going to be incredible.
So welcome back.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
What is up, Anit, I'm super excited to be here.
I hope that they check themicrophone because I'm already
pumped and that's a lot to liveup to.
I'm like man a heel, we have toheel.
I love it.
We do have to heel, we do.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
So we were chatting a little bit offline but, for
those of you who don't know, wehave not been in person together
since our last conversation, sothis is about to be all the
juicy tea.
It's kind of going to give youthe vibes of two friends
catching up and having the mostraw, real conversations about
where we are, how our journeyskind of intersected, and also I
(02:55):
was just thinking we touch onall the things relationships,
self-love, embodiment becauseyou know we're at this phase and
this point in life where we'reconstantly, ever evolving, and
so why not just go from there?
How is life?
What is bringing you joy inthis current season?
Speaker 3 (03:14):
What is bringing me joy in this current season is.
For me, it's always aboutperspective and insight.
I don't think that you everarrive, and so I find myself in
midlife and being surprised bymy own self, just learning
things about myself that Ididn't know were there, and I
think that that's reallyimportant to learn to grow, to
(03:38):
love yourself, to acceptyourself.
I always say that before youcan really grow, you have to
accept yourself.
You've got to accept yourselfwhere you are, not where you
wish you were.
So I'm just learning more toaccept myself and I'm like I
like you, like you're kind ofinteresting, sheree, but like
legit, like I really like you.
So that's really bringing mejoy.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
I love your answer because I feel like I'm at a
phase where, before anytransformation happens, we have
to start off with reallythinking about what part of me
got me to where I am, and thenyou accept that and then from
the acceptance of this is how Igot to the situation, and that
(04:27):
can definitely look like takingownership of my parts of where I
didn't speak up inrelationships, where I didn't
lay down boundaries, where Ioverlooked my own skills or
whatever that looks like for you.
We accept where we are and thenfrom there we end up moving to
a new perspective of how can Imake the shift, what's next
needed?
But I love that you started offwith accepting yourself and
(04:48):
liking yourself, because if wedon't like who we are in the
mirror, there's only one way tochange that, and that's to start
radically owning and beingtruthful with who you are.
Speaker 3 (04:59):
I love that.
You know, and when you weresaying that I was, I've been
really reflecting as we kind ofend off the year we're getting
closer and closer to the end of2025, is to make sure that I'm
in alignment, that I am inalignment, that my purpose is in
alignment with my vision, it'sin alignment with my actions,
(05:23):
it's in alignment with mydecisions, it's in alignment
with my decisions, it's inalignment with my behavior and I
have alignment with people.
And one of the things Irecognized was that, okay,
there's some things that are outof alignment, and so I just
kind of created this littlechecklist before I even meet
with someone, because peopledon't know this, I seem like I'm
a hard.
(05:44):
I'm a really hard person.
I was going to cuss.
There's no cuss.
I'm really a hard person, whichI am like I'm a go-getter, but
there are things that touch myheart where I can begin to
violate, like my own boundariesthat I've created.
So I had to look at the thingsand the behaviors and the
(06:05):
actions, and even down to thepeople I'm meeting with, and ask
myself number one is this amission-oriented interaction?
Is this a mission-orientedinteraction?
And if it is not in alignmentwith my mission, it's automatic.
It needs to be a no, it justneeds to be no.
(06:27):
And sometimes we think, as women, that you got to be nice.
Nice is not necessary.
Nice girls don't do anything.
Girls who are in alignment doeverything.
So I have to look at it and say, hey, is this in alignment with
my mission?
And then the next question isand I'm asking myself is is this
, is there?
What is the payoff, what's thereturn?
Sometimes there's an emotionalpayoff, but I have to make sure
(06:50):
that the payoff is not mevalidating myself by being in
someone else's presence.
I'm like I just got to watchthat.
I have to make sure that I'mnot trying to rescue someone.
I'm not trying to fix someone.
I'm not here, the super sister,savior, like.
I'm not getting that kind ofemotional payoff, but it's a
mission oriented payoff.
Where I'm where it's, it is inme to help this person, but not
(07:15):
to the detriment of my own self.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Oh, my God, I love that you just went there,
because I feel and the amount ofconversations I've been having
lately with women of, well, Ijust I don't know how to say no
and I'm like eventually you'regonna have to learn, because at
this point and I've gotten tothis point of my journey where
(07:40):
I'm learning to start settingboundaries and before it used to
be, I had this habit of like Iwould overexpress and I would
communicate and I would let youknow how I feel and why I feel
that you need to do whatever inaccordance to, like the boundary
I'm trying to set.
Now it's more clear cut.
I don't like this.
This is what I'm holding, thisis my standard.
(08:01):
Please let me know how you wantto go about it.
I accept that if you don't wantto follow that boundary, but
I've gotten to a point whereit's like I really don't care to
nourish a relationship thatdoesn't want to be aligned, as
you just said, with theboundaries I'm setting for
(08:22):
myself, the new standards I'mraising for myself.
Speaker 3 (08:25):
If you don't set your boundaries, then someone else
will Absolutely, and it's justlike are you okay with that?
And sometimes women people ingeneral I don't think that this
is a women thing, but it's notthat you can't say no, you're
uncomfortable with your no,you're actually trying to manage
somebody else's moods, theiractions and their internal state
.
It's a form of control.
(08:52):
So instead of just saying no tothem, you say yes, and I think
that there's some element ofpeople pleasing.
I don't want to appear mean,since when is saying no?
I can't go to the party beingmean, you're just letting people
know what your ability is, whatyour capacity is, but when you
don't say no, you end up doingthings that are nice but they're
not necessary.
And how does that work?
Speaker 2 (09:14):
Does it Long term?
It doesn't.
I mean, I think that I foundthe more that we do set our
standards essentially lower andaccept being that people pleaser
and doing what others areasking of us all the time.
I mean, obviously there's alevel of compromise, but I think
(09:35):
when you get to the point ofI'm at a state where I don't
feel this is necessary or thisis what I even really want to do
, it's not aligned and youcontinuously cross that boundary
within yourself because at thatpoint you're not, by not
setting the boundary with theother person, you're actually
avoiding the boundary withyourself.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
Some people don't even know what they want.
So in order for you to set aboundary for what you want, you
actually have to know what youwant.
Absolutely you have to knowwhat kind of relationship you
want.
Some people are like, well, I'mjust, you know, I just want
somebody, somebody.
But what kind of somebody youwant?
An abuse of somebody.
You want to broke down, somebodylike you got to define what you
(10:20):
want, and once you define whatyou want, you can set.
Then you set some standards forwhat you want.
And once you define what youwant, you can set.
Then you set some standards forwhat you want.
That's kind of what I think.
And then, once you set thestandard for what you want, now
you have the ability to set theboundary for what you want.
So it's not like, okay, I'mjust setting boundaries, yes,
but what's the end?
Why?
It's going to go back to what Iwant, and for me, it's my
(10:43):
purpose.
So if I just end up saying yesto everyone and anyone, somebody
sent me a message and they werelike hey, like, can we get
together?
And I first question is thismission oriented?
No, so no.
It looked like saying no.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
No, I mean when you say Looked like saying no, even
though I'm at it in a nice way.
Oh, what does mission orientedlook like?
So, obviously there's the grandscheme of things of what you're
wanting to do with yourcoaching and your business and
the impact you want to leavewith the world.
But on a personal scale, whatdoes that look like for you?
Speaker 3 (11:21):
Really it's connected to my greater purpose.
My purpose is really to helpwomen walk out their purpose,
and being on mission means thatI'm I am really coaching and
speaking.
So in this season it's reallyfocusing on my business and
focusing on things that reallymake Cherie a better her, and
the reason why is because Ispent a lot of years pouring
(11:45):
into everyone else's vision andnot pouring into my own.
So I'm actually using my pastperformance as a reason why I
won't stay stuck.
So I just I look at it and Ijust say, hey, you know what, at
this stage of my life, likethis is just not a good idea,
and I do a lot of futuring.
So I don't know if you heardthis.
(12:07):
When you look at your decisionsor you look at something that
you're going to say to someone,think to yourself what kind of
impact is this going to have in10 hours?
What kind of impact is it goingto have in 10 days?
What kind of impact is it goingto have in 10 months?
What kind of impact is it goingto have in 10 years?
And you, just, kind of impactis it going to have in 10 years?
And you kind of you just kindof future and it's like in 10
(12:27):
hours.
I already knew if I say yes tothis, I'm going to be frustrated
, because I know that's 120minutes of my time that didn't
go into my greater mission, andthen you do that there's a
cumulative effect.
Cumulative effect if that, ifit's 120 minutes here and 120
minutes there and 120 minutesthere, that's 360 minutes.
(12:51):
Let's keep going.
Now we're going to stretch itout to 10 months and you have
over 15 000 minutes of spendingtime on things that kept you
stuck.
And it's not their fault,it's's yours, it's my fault.
How about you?
Like?
How are you setting boundaries?
I mean it looks differently.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
I had a relationship recently that was no longer
serving me, so that person hadset boundaries and the
boundaries were in such a statethat there was no compromise and
for me I realized I am not okaymeeting your boundaries.
(13:34):
I understand where you might becoming from when you had said
it and this person said it yearsago, and for me I was just like
this is where I'm at at thiscurrent phase of my life.
I am no longer treating myself,allowing myself excuse me to be
treated in certain types ofways.
(13:55):
So if that requires meshrinking, if that requires me
hiding, if that requires me toonly be available to connect at
certain hours, I am not okaywith that at this phase.
So I set a loving boundary andat the end of that boundary, the
way I communicated it, I waslike this is me finally just
(14:18):
choosing myself.
Now I have not heard from thatperson since I've done it, but
when I went into thatinteraction I was very clear if
I lose you, it is what it is thedoor will always be open on
your part, but things have toshift on how we interact at this
(14:39):
point, and so, while it couldbe very hard and there was tears
there was are you actually sureyou want to do this?
Was it's time to let thisrelationship go if they're not
(15:03):
willing to step up to thestandard that you are now
walking from?
Because I realized kind ofaligned with what you were
saying about if it doesn't fitmy mission, how can I be walking
around telling women I want toelevate them and I want them to
feel like they're able to beseen and heard authentically, if
(15:25):
I'm allowing myself to besidelined in a relationship?
And so that alone, thatcounterbalance of what I was
accepting versus what I know Ishould be accepting, was so
drastic that I had to make thatshift.
Speaker 3 (15:45):
I love that and I think that it's just something
that's necessary, that you haveto do.
While I can't control whatpeople think, I don't want
people to think that, hey, I'msetting a boundary, we don't set
boundaries to punish people.
I love what you saidcompromising with people and
collaborating, because sometimesI realize that my boundary is
actually so rigid that no onecould cross it and that doesn't
(16:09):
help me grow If I'm not willingto have a collaborative
relationship with people.
I think what we're both talkingabout is really a pattern.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (16:20):
A pattern where it's you're always violating your
internal boundaries.
So by nature, you're alwaysviolating your internal
boundaries.
So by nature, you're going toviolate external boundaries.
And that leads to the abilityof you just not saying no.
But sometimes I've setboundaries like OK, I'm only
going to do this on this day.
And then I recognize like OK,so, for example really good
examples I'm only going to havemy doctor's appointments only on
(16:42):
Fridays.
This is when I can do it.
And it's like, yeah, that's notlike real life, You'll actually
be going when they can do it.
Yeah.
So it's like like I have to bewilling to have some flexibility
in my life.
It's not like this, just thisrigid structure.
And if you, if you don't align,you know, get out of here, get,
(17:06):
get out of my way or follow me.
No, it's, it's hailing.
Let me just have like somestructure and some guiding
principles to get me to my NorthStar, instead of just like
wishing and like, oh, I'm goingto just manifest some stuff, you
can manifest it, but you've gotto structure it to manifest it.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
Absolutely.
It's all about the alignedaction when it comes to the
manifesting.
But for me I think what you'vesaid about not being so rigid is
so important, because I feellike a lot of times what we hear
is this concept of like onceyou've set your standard,
there's no swaying from it.
(17:40):
Swaying from and to a portionof it, I do agree.
Once you set the standard, youset your expectations, you kind
of meet that.
But then there's thatunderstanding, especially in the
relationship dynamic of theother person's needs are
different, the way theycommunicate is different and the
(18:01):
way they even just their fiveone love languages can be very
different from who you are.
So for me, even having set thatboundary recently, I was just
like I'm willing for adiscussion, I'm willing to come
with you to a compromise, butall I know is the current set
standards do not work for who Iam in this current season of
(18:23):
life.
What was accepted 9-10 yearsago is not going to be accepted
in this phase of my life goingforward, especially as I'm
getting stronger in that missionorientation and just my purpose
and my vision for what I reallywant to see out for women.
And so when we talk about justbeing aligned.
(18:44):
I think there needs to be thatflexibility to allow yourself to
align in a way that actuallybenefits for all parties
involved.
I love that.
Speaker 3 (18:56):
And I do think that it's really important just
thinking about standards.
I have standards, but otherpeople have standards, so I have
to be I love what you saidunderstanding that people have
their own desires, their ownmotives, their own wishes and I
have to adjust.
I do have to make adjustments,like I'm not like queen bee,
like that's not that that you,you can't operate and work with
(19:18):
people if you're like that, soI'm definitely willing to to to
adhere to someone else'sstandards and respect them where
they are in a really good place.
That this works for me is in myrelationships my relationship
with my spouse, my relationshipwith my adult kids, my
relationship with other people.
So, for example, if my daughterwas over the house yesterday or
(19:40):
the day before and she wastalking about some things that
was going on in her life andshe's got a roommate, so I
started saying stuff and myhusband's like no, no, saying
stuff, no, and so I had to goback and apologize and just say,
hey, you're an adult.
(20:00):
Just because I think thisdoesn't mean you need to hear it
.
She has the right to make herown decisions without my
influence or my control.
That's when people get intooffering their services where
it's not needed and it's notnecessary and I 100% started.
(20:23):
I didn't even realize I wasdoing it and I was violating her
standards, and so I apologize.
And and I'm not.
I'm not.
We all know we're not perfect,but I haven't arrived at the
queen of the boundary and thequeen of the standards.
I have to make sure that I Irespect other people and respect
that they have their own inneralignment.
(20:45):
And who said that I need?
I am the chief operatingofficer of your thoughts.
You're not under my control.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
Right, you know.
As you got into the subject ofcontrol, what areas of life do
you find that most people try tocontrol, not in relationships,
but generally?
What parts do you think or doyou perceive are being they're
trying to grasp onto?
Speaker 3 (21:12):
what parts do people try to control?
I think in working with womenyou're not going to like this,
but it's true, or maybe they'renot going to like this we try to
control other people's moods,their behavior, their thoughts.
(21:34):
That's the very first area.
That's where that peoplepleasing comes in, and moms are
notorious for doing this.
I'm just trying to help.
Does it have something to say?
I just want to fix it.
You're trying to controlinstead of allowing it to just
be what it is.
(21:55):
But that really goes down toyou being uncomfortable with
someone else's discomfort, andso you try to go in, you try to
step in and you try to fix thesituation.
I am the classicover-functioner, like I have a
little bit of a the savior, thesister savior.
(22:16):
I'll fix it, I get it.
I got it.
But really what I'm trying todo is I'm trying to control your
mood, your thoughts, yourbehavior.
With what?
With my great ideas?
What do you think I?
Speaker 2 (22:32):
love that you touched on this, because human moments
are coming full circle.
I had this exact situationhappen to me Thursday, friday of
last week, and it was I livewith my mom very common in our
culture.
But I found she was in a moodis how I will put it.
(22:53):
I don't know if anyone else hasthat innate kind of ability
when you're living with someonefor so long and you can kind of
tell when they're going from I'mangry to pissed off to I'm
about to blow the lid off ofsomething, just by their
emotions, not even by anythingthey're actually saying.
And I remember having thisthought of like I really should
(23:17):
go try to calm her down.
I really should like go try tohave an understanding of what's
going on with her, go try tohave an understanding of what's
going on with her.
And I honestly had to step backand be like am I trying to
disvalidate whatever you'refeeling right now?
Because it also came from theunderstanding and I'm trying to
(23:39):
get better at this is takingthat pause, to be like I don't
control your circumstance andyour feelings.
But it takes a whole notherlevel when you're in that space
with somebody.
So I gently went up to her andI was like, hey, what's going on
?
And she was just like I'mstressed about this.
And she started listing off andshe had a lot of feelings.
(24:02):
So she listed off her feelingsall very valid and I just simply
was like, right now, do youwant me to offer advice, to
listen to you, or to just shutup?
And most people, I think, forgetthat sometimes all you need is
(24:23):
just to be listened to.
Yeah, and so I think the nicepart about being a coach is you
start to pick up on those cues.
But because her and I are sointertwined, I don't always know
what version of me she needs.
So I'm like you tell me what isbeen most beneficial for you
(24:44):
right now.
And she just was like it's along night, you go take care of
yourself, get ready for bed, Iwill fix it Like I will deal
with myself.
Now, having looked back at thatwith a different perspective, I
realized she just needed to feelwhatever it was.
And I think so often,especially in our space, we try
(25:07):
to.
How can I fix thisinstantaneously, not let it sit,
not sit with the discomfort ofthese harsher emotions, and just
move past them.
And what I've come to realizepersonally is sometimes you just
need a minute, and I'm notsaying take the entire day or
(25:27):
take a week to wallow in somenegative feelings, but when they
come up, I do think there'ssomething to acknowledging that
there's feelings that are comingup and doing the identification
of what it is that's comingthrough for you.
Speaker 3 (25:44):
Couldn't have said it better myself.
Couldn't have said it bettermyself because when we try to
fix people over functioningwomen a classic over functioner,
and I can say this because Itotally am what we're really
doing is we're avoiding our ownpain.
So all of our people issues areactually internal issues.
Absolutely everything's amirror.
(26:06):
This person's not the problem.
It's actually my reaction tothem.
That's the problem.
I love that you went there.
It's not them and I'm nottalking about like abuse.
That's not what I'm talkingabout.
I'm talking about our dailyinteractions and our
relationships with people.
I was in a conversation with myhusband and I'm like wanting to
(26:28):
get up and I was like wait aminute, just like you.
What's going on here?
Why is it?
I have a pattern of behaviorwhere I want to get up and I was
like wait a minute.
This actually has it does havesomething to do with him, but it
has something to do with me.
So I just asked myself wait,let's do a little emotional
(26:50):
regulation.
Number one what are you feelingemotionally?
What are you feeling?
My stomach is tightening.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
I love that.
You went straight to where thebody is feeling it too.
Where is it?
Speaker 3 (27:25):
My stomach is tightening.
What's the emotion?
And I realized I felt helpless.
I felt helpless and then it'sokay.
Why?
What's the thought?
Because he's actuallyfrustrated and there's nothing I
can do to fix it.
So my wanting to get up orclose off it wasn't that he was.
The issue is that there was anavoidance of my own emotions
that were the issue.
So we have to learn, like whenwe're in conversations with
people, especially people whokind of like get you going is we
have to regulate our emotions.
(27:45):
So what am I feeling in my body?
What is the emotion that comesup for me?
Feel it, face it.
Then the most important part iswhat is the thought driving the
emotion?
Okay, now, how can I change thethought Instead of trying to
fix it?
Okay, I got it out.
Just ask a question hey, whatdo you think that you should do?
(28:11):
I'm not his inner compass, he'shis inner compass, absolutely.
I'm not trying to master him,I'm actually trying to master me
, and I think that that's liketaking that emotional regulation
, especially in those situationswhere there's you know, you
have those relationships wherethere's a high amount of
(28:32):
emotional reactivity.
You have to actually learn howto regulate yourself.
And if you don't know how.
Then I just say, hey, you knowwhat, maybe we need to come back
to this at another time becauseI can't regulate myself.
You know, they say the amygdalais the emotional processing
center in the brain and when itgets lit up, emotions go up,
(28:54):
logic goes down.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
I love that you said that, and especially starting
off with the body, because,quite frankly, I think most
people totally miss how muchyour body is attuned to what's
going on with you, and so,personally for me, I've learned
that anytime I'm triggeredwhether that's through a
(29:17):
conversation, something I'mlooking at online, something
that's heck it could be thetraffic on the way here I
realize my triggers are myteachers, because, more than it
being about the other person orthe situation or the thing
that's not going my way, Irealized the triggers that are
(29:41):
triggering me are there to pointout where I have not yet grown
or something that I have notfaced, even if I thought I have
done so.
Because I think in our space, alot of times people want to act
like, once you hit a certainlevel, you no longer have issues
and what I've personally foundI will have reoccurring themes
(30:07):
of things I'm working on that,as I hit, new levels come up,
and so recently it was.
I have a deep-seated, lovelyabandonment wound and that
started to peak its head and Iwas just like I have done all
this work on it.
Why is it not?
And then I realized, yes, I'vedone work on it, but how has
(30:32):
this version of myself done thework on it?
Because, as we hit new levels,that gap between where we were
and where we are shifts, and soyou need to be constantly
working on that consciousness.
That goes along with it, in myopinion.
Speaker 3 (30:53):
For some reason, I just thought you said so much
yummy stuff.
Triggers are teachers.
So my first thought is that'slike I'm gonna have to steal
that.
So that's my problem.
I'm like triggers are teachers.
I love that because ourtriggers tell us something and,
like when I go through women,through my power experience, we
look at their emotional pattern,because all of us have this
(31:16):
emotional pattern.
But one of the things thatkeeps us from dealing with the
emotions is we're avoiding ouremotions and it's because we are
so busy trying to manageeveryone else.
One of the things I did is Isaid you know what?
I'm on an opinion detox.
I love pot.
(31:38):
I went on an opinion detox.
Why?
Because my opinion doesn'tmatter.
Because you think about that.
Think about the energy it takesto have a thought.
Think about the creative powerin your mind that it takes to
have and formulate a thought.
Now think about all of yourthoughts that are about other
(32:00):
people, what they should bedoing, who Kris Jenner should be
with.
Who Miley Cyrus should besinging with.
Who, like all whatever thesecelebrities should be with.
Who Miley Cyrus should besinging with.
Who, like all whatever thesecelebrities should be doing.
The opinions and the energythat you spend on others is not
spent on self.
Energy spent one place is notbeing spent another place.
(32:25):
And I and like I would say likeI'm not a kind of person, I'm
not a busybody, I don't reallyget involved in people's
opinions, but it's sneakybecause I'll find myself just
cleaning, doing the dishes,doing whatever, and I've got all
these opinions about what otherpeople should be doing with
their life.
Nobody asked you who needs Godwhen we have your opinion,
(32:46):
sheree.
Okay, I don't like this.
I am wasting the creativeenergy that God gave me on
people who have nothing to dowith me.
I cannot fix their problems, Iam not their therapist, I do not
hold the line.
I should not be making the call.
So I was like, okay, let me nowpay close attention to what's
(33:10):
happening with me.
And it's amazing how now I havethis amount of creative energy
because I'm not spending it onother people, but we end up
ignoring our triggers becausewe're using that energy on other
people.
So that was my thought aboutthat.
And then you talked about growth, just how we grow into all
things, and I was readingearlier today, like this morning
(33:32):
, as a matter of fact, abouttrees, and trees, when you look
at like classic literature.
A lot of times they're symbolicof growth and I didn't know
this.
But trees have growth scars.
But trees have growth scars.
I read it this morning.
They have growth scars.
(33:53):
So the scar, the last scar, isjust the point of growth.
It indicates the point ofgrowth.
So whenever, like theabandonment wound or whatever
the wound is, all that is is youjust need to grow.
It's just an indication.
Oh, it comes up.
It doesn't mean that I'm stillstruggling with the wound.
(34:15):
I'm actually growing beyond thewound.
I'm growing.
But again, you will not know ifyou can grow if you're spending
all of your time, your energy,the mental resources of your
mind on other people's lifeinstead of your life.
Beautiful.
Speaker 2 (34:40):
Absolutely how to try to control these situations,
whether that's financial or evenas simple as controlling the
mentalities of kind of likelineage cycle situations right.
The more you spend the energyof I need to shift a perspective
(35:01):
or I need to do this, you'reactually releasing the ability
to make the change that youactually want.
And what I mean by that is, Irealized, the more I'm sitting
here trying to prove a certainperspective or prove a certain
point to be understood andperceived in a certain way, the
(35:24):
more it ends up just losing itspower how'd you find that out?
Speaker 3 (35:32):
I'm curious.
Speaker 2 (35:38):
So I think what's great for me is, as I've stepped
further, deeper into mybusiness, I find that business
is spiritual, so you find thatall your things will come up.
Anything you thought that youhave, that you've worked on, I
will tell you.
You will find a new perspectiveon how to work through it then.
And as I've started to stepinto that light, I realized I
(36:04):
came from a very young age oflike I need to prove and I need
to earn my worth and I am goingto show you to earn my worth and
I am going to show you.
And I finally got to a pointand this is very fresh where I
(36:27):
was speaking to someone and I gowell, tell me about myself,
what is your perspective of me?
Because and it wasn't from a Ineed your validation.
But when you've spent your yearstrying to prove to people who
you are and that mentality,everything I thought I was
proving was nothing of what theywere seeing.
It was very maybe 2% of what Ithought.
(36:50):
So it got me to realize, justoff of that interaction and then
looking out, overarching oflike, just the themes that were
reoccurring in my life orcertain relationships, how they
were navigating, and I realizedfor me.
I got to a place where it wasjust like you don't see me
(37:13):
because I'm not showing you theauthentic version of myself and
I'm being this person that I'veshapeshifted into being, so you
will see me, love me, approve ofme, think I am worthy, whatever
.
And I realized they're missingthe whole person on the other
(37:35):
side.
So all that effort, all thatperception was essentially for
nothing, and I realized theoverarching theme is when you
get to a point where you nolonger need to prove and you can
be just authentic and messy andnot perfect.
(37:56):
That's one things peopleexperience is start to magnetize
.
It's not that version of youthat you think you have to be.
Speaker 3 (38:06):
I like that.
It's stepping into who youalready are.
Absolutely, yeah, I, there issomething about us, or that you
know you have a business oryou're a manager, you're a
director, you're workingsomewhere that you have to prove
.
Now you do need to bring value.
Of course you need to bringvalue, you need to bring your
skill set, but sometimes we canmistake our value for our worth,
(38:30):
us giving value for my worth,our value for our worth.
I was giving value for my worth, and that goes back to how I
help women to stopover-functioning, because it's
like, oh, the more I do, I'vegot to prove, you know that I'm
doing a good job To a degree inyour work.
Yes, you want to do a good job,but there does hit a point
where you're trying to getvalidation from people instead
(38:53):
of validating yourself.
Speaker 2 (39:02):
A line that's been very potent for me in this
season of life is convictionover validation.
So what do I mean by thatConviction?
Having the certainty withinyourself, certainty that your
gifts are being given to you bycreator, god, universe, whatever
you call it.
Having that certainty and theknowing that whatever it is
that's placed on your heart isgoing to be set out for you
(39:24):
otherwise it wouldn't be placed.
There takes a lot of action onyour part, but it's not about
the external validation then,people that you want for either
watching or on the sidelines, orwho you think you can impress.
It's not about needing theiropinions to match that.
(39:46):
It's about re-coming to a placeof.
I believe God gave me thismessage, or God gave me this
purpose, and I need to alignmyself with what his vision is,
and having that knowing and thatessentially belief that it'll
(40:07):
come to fruition at the end ofthe day, because so much of us
especially women, I find arelooking for how can I make a
point to others, how can I bebasically just again, how do I
prove that I'm worth it, or howcan I earn your love, big one,
(40:33):
and I realized, at the end ofthe day, I don't need the
validation from others.
All I need validation from isGod.
Speaker 3 (40:43):
I agree, I agree.
I think that that's why Ireally work with women to
understand their purpose,because it was a life changing
for me.
Once I got clear on my visionand my purpose, I knew exactly
what I was supposed to be doing.
So your opinion may be nice,but it's just not necessary.
I no longer need your opinionto fill my own self.
(41:05):
So it's like you need to useyour voice, but before you can
use your voice, you need to knowyour voice, know what that
voice is here to say and thenwhat these hands are meant to do
.
It's my responsibility to knowmy purpose.
It's my responsibility to givemyself my own validation.
My validation comes from God.
(41:28):
Now, do I want people around me?
Of course I want people aroundme, but I'm not gonna allow
their mood, their opinion, theirthoughts to now get me to
shrink and now I have badbehavior.
It's very important to knowwhat your purpose is, and I
think the reason why is becauseif you don't know your purpose,
(41:49):
you can misuse your purpose.
You know, like this phone, mycell phone here well the purpose
.
It has multiple purposes, butit's there to make phone calls,
but you know what I can do.
I can take this phone and I canthrow it, yeah, but that's not
its intended purpose.
Now, it would be effective andit would hurt someone, but I
would be misusing it.
(42:10):
Why would I want to misuse it?
Why would I want to misuse it?
Why would I want to misuse it?
Because when I do that, I missout on all the functionality
that it was designed for.
And I think it's the same thingwith our life.
When we don't know our purpose,more than likely we're living
someone else's purpose and youmiss out on everything.
(42:32):
You miss out on the gifts inyour life, the calling in your
life.
You're going to miss out withpeople in your life and it
really goes back to youunderstanding your purpose.
So I'm like, hey, like let'shelp you understand.
Like your life is a story andyou can rewrite it.
But you need to know, just useyour voice, know why do you have
(42:54):
this voice.
And once you find that out,it's like, hey, I've gotten this
part of validation, like wedon't grow out of like not
wanting validation, because Ican go into that with clients
and with students.
You know you want to do a goodjob and go into over functioning
and you want people to get agood experience.
But take a step back.
(43:14):
Wait a minute.
I'm already validated.
I already have validation.
So I do what I do, not to tryto get validation.
I do what I do because I havevalidation.
What do you think?
Speaker 2 (43:28):
I love this, I really do, because absolutely, I agree
, 100%.
And what question kind of camethrough for me, for those who
are listening right now, what is?
It's a double whammy.
So what is a way to find theirvoice?
And, on the back end of that,how does finding their voice
(43:49):
translate to finding theirpurpose?
Speaker 3 (43:51):
Oh, that's so good.
What is a way to find theirvoice?
Well, first of all, if you findit, you need to know where you
lost it.
That's, I mean, that's such agood way.
Where did you lose it?
So now we track back.
Where did I begin to lose myvoice?
It was probably with some pain.
(44:11):
There was probably a moment, aperson, a situation where,
instead of you losing using yourvoice, you lost your voice, and
if you look at that situationin your life, it's a very
painful point.
And now you've got to extractfrom that very painful point the
(44:36):
lessons that you learned.
What was the lesson that youlearned from that very painful
situation?
And out of those lessons and Igo deeper in this you need to
(45:00):
say who needs these lessons, whoare the people that need these
lessons?
Then now, how can I use myvoice to give people those
lessons?
So for me, I just take a stepback.
Where did it happen?
Oh, my gosh, it happened withmy son being diagnosed with
special needs.
Wait a minute, I shrunk.
What were the lessons I learned?
I'm more than the people aroundme.
I am more than a wife.
I'm more than a mother.
I am a person, I am powerful,I'm capable, I'm a bad chick and
(45:24):
you can get over pain.
My voice was it doesn't matterwhat has happened to you, you
can overcome this pain.
Now.
Then I said oh, who needs thisvoice?
Women, women, women who havebeen through a divorce tragedy
(45:45):
with a loved one, who haveshrunk in their life, who have
shrunk to their past trauma.
If I hold back my voice, theyrisk losing their voice.
So now I see, oh, this is aresponsibility, which is why we
cannot be depending on everybodyelse's validation for the
(46:05):
purpose that God gave us.
What about you?
Speaker 2 (46:09):
This is so good.
I knew this conversation wouldbe juicy and I am so grateful
we're having this because for me, I definitely had this moment
even recently.
So I love that we're havingthis conversation because I've
started to use my voice and forthe longest time I had this
(46:31):
moment of starting to payattention to signs and
synchronicities and kind ofthings that are happening in
your life, because I realizedthere are no coincidences.
They all kind of lead tocertain things.
And there was one day I wasdoing a meditation and there's a
song called Speechless whichwas in the Latin movie the
(46:52):
remake, our live-action version,and it just started playing
while I was meditating and inthe lyrics of that song it's
essentially there's a part whereit's like the story is ending
of essentially not using yourvoice, of not being the story is
(47:14):
ending, of essentially notusing your voice, of not being
in power with your voice.
And I remember listening tothat during that meditation
because, if I laid out how ithappened, it was playing in the
living room, I was doing mymeditation in my bedroom and I
was just like this does nothappen, normally, this does not
(47:37):
happen, and I just had amilestone moment, and so I
remember just being verydistraught about why is the
house not quiet at 4 am at thatday.
And I remember walking out tothe living room and hearing the
lyrics of this song and I wasjust like and ironically that
song finished and literallynothing else played afterwards
(47:58):
and I was like same reaction.
I was like that alone was amessage.
And so I was sitting theregoing, okay, so that's a message
, what is this message from?
And I started to realize inthat moment and it planted a
seed of realizing that I was notusing my voice, I had shut off
(48:22):
my voice.
And so it was this link of howdo I figure out where I stopped.
Where I stopped.
And, like you said, it was amoment of pain, of immense pain
that had a lot to do with mygeneral wounding.
(48:43):
But it took me about six, eightmonths from that meditation day
to really realize, okay, I knowI'm not using my voice.
And as I started to progress anduse the voice and start to own
who I am in my authentic skin, Irealized slowly, why are that
(49:07):
missing link was because it wasa repressed memory, and so it
being from a point of pain isabsolutely usually the truth,
because we don't just comethrough this planet and be like
you know what?
I'm not going to live my mostauthentic expression.
If you look at little children,that's why they're so beautiful
(49:29):
.
They're in their own essence.
They're not afraid of being toomuch, they're not afraid of
being too little.
I will take up the space and Iwill own it, and I am not
apologizing for it.
But somewhere along the linefrom being that child that's
fully expressing themselves, youfind yourself in this gap of
how do I mold to make mom happyor dad happy or people at school
(49:55):
happy?
How do I fit in?
And the more we start thinkingthose thoughts and conforming
our personalities, the more welose who we are authentically.
Speaker 1 (50:06):
Yeah, that's so good.
Speaker 3 (50:08):
I believe that to be so true.
Yeah, little kids, they justthey are who they are.
And I always say you are not,you're not born with
insecurities.
Speaker 2 (50:16):
Somebody taught you to have them early on, because
(50:37):
when I've started to do a lot ofthe inner child healing on
myself, I realized, whilethere's certain points of
certain phrases hey, don't dothat, it's not safe, you mean
well by it.
But by instilling it you'reactually instilling the fear and
it ends up being a stacking ofthis human experience that we
all go through to some degree.
So I just there's something tobe said about trying to find
(51:01):
that most authentic expressionof yourself, whatever that looks
like.
Speaker 1 (51:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (51:05):
I love that.
I'm so grateful for you.
Speaker 3 (51:09):
I'm so happy.
Speaker 2 (51:09):
Thank you, thank you so, at this point in life, what
would you say?
You're noticing the themes ofemotional resistance with women.
Speaker 3 (51:30):
At this point in my life I noticed that the themes
as far as emotional resistancewith women is being comfortable
with very uncomfortable emotionsthat can be very difficult,
especially the older that peopleget, because I mean I'm almost
50, so I can say this I shelooks great for her age I
haven't been anybody, but you'veheard of people being set in
their ways.
Yeah, and like.
I'm not changing, like this isthe way it's always been.
(51:52):
It's because we can become souncomfortable with our emotions
and it actually takes a lot ofcognitive energy to deal with
something that's veryuncomfortable and to just let it
sit.
Yeah, and it is, it is.
It's in the more you live life,the more experiences good and
bad that you have, the moreexperiences good and bad that
(52:15):
you have.
So that ability to sit withvery uncomfortable emotions
breeds and builds emotionalresilience, which we all need.
So we have to learn how to justsit in it.
I'm not saying stay in it, feelit, rise above it.
Speaker 2 (52:32):
Yeah, 100%.
I think when we're afraid ofsitting in the uncomfortable,
that's when we're actually doingmore harm to ourselves than
good, because what I've noticedis the more you repress and you
suppress emotions, the more yourbody just holds on to it,
(52:53):
whereas the discomfort ofsitting with it is not great,
but at least you're no longerstoring it.
Speaker 1 (52:59):
Right.
Speaker 2 (53:01):
So I'm going to go ahead and kind of give you an
off-the-cuff question now.
What would you say?
What would be a moment for youwhere you felt like, okay, I'm
starting to step out and stepinto this like leadership or
boldness, where you felt likeyou're finally stepping into who
(53:22):
you were?
Speaker 3 (53:25):
It actually involved people, because I had, you know,
we have this side it's calledthe blind side, where it's
Chihari's window.
But it's called the blind sidewhere people's Chihari's window,
but it's called the blind sidewhere people can see, but you
can't see and I did not see whatI was doing.
So it took having some goodpeople to say, hey, we've
(53:47):
noticed that you're a gatherer,we noticed that you're a leader.
So I had people around me thatspoke life into me, because I,
yes, I do believe in innerresilience, be sovereign, self
mastery, but there is only somuch that your own self knows.
There's always gonna be anaspect to you that you can't see
(54:10):
good and bad.
That's why I love your questionof hey, how do you experience
me?
What is it that you can't see?
Good and bad?
That's why I love your questionof hey, how do you experience
me?
What is it that you see?
And so, having people around methat said, hey, like we think
you're a leader, their spark wasalready there.
They just ignited it.
It was like flickering like agat, like on your gas stove, and
(54:33):
all they did was just turn itand it lit up, because I didn't
even recognize all of the growththat was happening on the
inside of me, and that was thebeginning of my what I would
call my self-mastery journey.
Speaker 2 (54:45):
I love that you mentioned people, because I
think so much of our space istended to be very self-reliant,
and a conversation I was justrecently having with a friend
because she had asked.
She posed the question well,when you are in these lower
(55:06):
energy states we'll call it whodo you turn to?
And I was like well, quitehonestly, I and this was a
patterning I had since I wasyoung I tend to just work on it
myself, I will cocoon, I willself-store, not let anybody into
this mess, and then,potentially, once I've already
(55:29):
navigated it, that is when Iwill come back and be like hey,
I had this breakdown, but here'sthe breakthrough that came out
of it.
And she was just like that'snot necessarily normal, because
we're humans that are meant tohave this connection and this
vulnerability and theseconversations, because what I
(55:52):
might be experiencing might besomething that you're mirroring,
that you don't realize, but ifI'm not open and willing to have
that discussion, you don't knowit, you don't benefit from it,
and so for me, it's alsorealizing when you're allowing
yourself to be vulnerable andwhen you're allowing yourself to
(56:14):
actually be authentic.
It also helps those around yousee you and fully see you.
Whereas I think there was apoint of me where I would have
these heavy emotions and I wouldsit with them and I would
process and I would do thebreath work and I would, I would
(56:34):
work my way out of it andthat's great, because at least
I'm not dependent if a person isnot able to meet me there.
But I realized, coming to theseason of like, oh, it's OK to
take off the mask and be likeI'm human and I still go through
shit.
I'm human and I still gothrough shit, and so, like what
(56:55):
your friends are doing for you,that ignition when we know our
depths and we show our depthsbut we also show our value.
That's what people actuallynotice about us.
It's not about how perfect andhow much of a mask can I have on
.
Speaker 3 (57:12):
I think we all I said this before I think I might
have said this that I reallybelieve we're not called to be
independent, we're called to beinterdependent.
No one who ever did anythinggreat did it alone.
Speaker 1 (57:24):
Absolutely.
You need community.
Speaker 3 (57:26):
We look at Harriet Tubman and, yes, she I don't
want to call her the queen ofthe railroad, but she actually
had connections and shecollaborated with people Winston
Churchill, abraham Lincoln,oprah, it's through
collaboration that gives yougreater competence, but being by
yourself just makes you weird.
Speaker 2 (57:48):
Yeah, yeah, I love that you ended it that way.
Okay, so quick fire round.
Yeah, I love that you ended itthat way.
Okay, so quick fire round.
I've slightly shifted theconversation questions because
you've already done this once,so what's?
Speaker 3 (58:06):
a recent book that you find has changed your life?
Emotional Okay, it's by LauraVernick.
It's so good.
Emotional relationships.
Oh my gosh, I'm going to get itwrong.
Speaker 2 (58:15):
I will put the title in the show notes.
Speaker 3 (58:17):
Yes, but right now I'm reading by Nona Jones
Rejection is Protection, it'sfire.
Speaker 2 (58:23):
Oh, I love that title alone.
Speaker 3 (58:24):
I'm going to have to get it.
Rejection is Protection, sogood.
Speaker 2 (58:27):
So good, okay, so what's?
A song that instantly liftsyour mood?
Rocky song that instantly liftsyour mood.
Rocky mama said knock you outlike those are my go-tos.
They love you, so okay.
What's one relationship lessonyou wish you'd learned sooner
you have one mouth, two ears.
Speaker 3 (58:52):
What do you think that means?
Speaker 2 (58:58):
mouth two ears.
What do you think that means?
Speaker 3 (59:00):
beautiful a place in the world that makes you feel
the most alive, oh, my goodness,outside of vegas, outside of
vegas, most alive, well, as ofright now.
I'm really loving utah.
I just love going up there.
Speaker 2 (59:09):
It's so serene and beautiful okay, I need to check
out Utah more.
Apparently Best advice you'veever received in one sentence.
Speaker 3 (59:20):
The best advice I've ever received in one sentence.
The only thing that comes tomind is who needs God?
When we have your opinion,Clearly my opinion is not
necessary.
Speaker 2 (59:39):
I love that.
If you weren't doing this work,what would you be doing?
Oh my gosh, I'd have my owntalk show.
You'd be great.
I love people.
I love people.
You'd be so good at it.
Okay, morning person or nightowl'm morning, I can tell one
thing you want women to stopapologizing for, and that's our
(01:00:02):
heavy hitter for the end.
Speaker 3 (01:00:03):
Oh yeah, one.
One thing I want women to stopapologizing for is their story I
love this, thank you.
Speaker 2 (01:00:12):
This was such a beautiful conversation and kind
of like dual interview situation, but I love the way that you're
just so all for women.
Your heart is of service and Ijust I want to acknowledge you,
because there's not a lot ofwomen who are allowing
themselves to fully be out thereand fully be outspoken about
(01:00:35):
their stories, and I think thatthe way you use your story is
beautiful and I'm just sohonored to know you and I'm so
glad to be able to haveconversations that are so of
value for this collectiveconsciousness.
Speaker 3 (01:00:47):
Thank you.
Thank you, anita, and I'm sohonored to be a part of you and
what you're doing and the HERmethod and all of the things.
So thank you for having me.
It was 100% awesome.
And thank you for tuning in too.
Speaker 2 (01:01:01):
And that's it, until the next episode.
If you liked what you heardtoday, please go ahead and leave
a review down below and reachout to us on Instagram to let us
know your thoughts.
Our handles will be in the shownotes and until next time.
Bye for now.
Speaker 4 (01:01:21):
Thank you for rising with me today.
If this episode moved, youshare it.
Tag me at Arise with Anita andmake sure to subscribe so you
never miss a future activation.
And if you feel cold, leave aquick review.
It helps more women find thespace and rise into their power.
Your next level is alreadywaiting.
Now go claim it.
I'll see you in the nextepisode.
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