March 27, 2024 • 21 mins
Are you ready to dive into a conversation that'll redefine your relationship with rest and revitalize your sense of self-worth? Join us for a conversation featuring the one and only Dr. Cathia Walters, aka Dr. C, as we unpack the transformative power of rest and its profound connection to empowerment, boundaries, and relationships.
Dr. C doesn't just challenge the misconception that rest equals laziness—she flips the script entirely, revealing how moments of rest are essential acts of self-care and assertion of our worthiness. Get ready to discover how embracing brief breaks in your day can lead to monumental shifts in your well-being and relationships, even amidst life's hustle and bustle.
Ever heard of the magic of two-minute naps? Dr. C spills the beans on this game-changing strategy that'll have you rethinking your approach to downtime. Plus, she shares invaluable insights on setting boundaries around sleep needs, fostering healthier relationships with family, roommates, and partners, and reclaiming your space for rest and rejuvenation.
But here's the kicker: it's not just about catching more Z's. Dr. C's wisdom extends far beyond bedtime, delving into the intricate dance of communication and self-care within shared spaces. And guess what? She'll be expanding on some of this Friday in her interactive workshop "Healing Your Relationships," where she'll guide you through the process of nurturing deeper connections by honoring your own needs first.
So, if you're tired of feeling burnt out and undervalued, and you're ready to step into your power and embrace a life filled with rest, respect, and revitalized relationships, then this episode is your roadmap to transformation. Tune in and join us on this empowering journey with Dr. C.
Want more time with Dr. C? Join us Friday March 29th at noon ET Dr. C leads a group coaching session on Healing Your Relationships as part of our Embodied Worth Speaker Series.
Dr. Cathia Walters (Dr. C) is the the founder of the Walters Wellness Group (be sure to check out her blog). Dr. C offers courses, retreats, and support groups that empower individuals and couples. She regularly provides training, webinars, and workshops on a variety of healing-related topics for leading companies including Google, Live Nation, Mercari, Quora, Salesforce, and Wikimedia.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Sarah Kelly (00:00):
Okay, Sarah, today's conversation, one of our
favorite topics with one of ourfavorite people.
Yes, do we say this about everytopic and every person?
Sarah Anne (00:10):
We do, but this time it's on rest and sleep.
Are you kidding me?
Are you kidding me With DrKatya Walters?
Yes, dr C, it was such a richconversation.
Sarah Kelly (00:23):
We met Dr C in Costa Rica and instantly it was
just a mutual love of oneanother love fest of Sarah's and
Dr C.
And Dr Kathia Walters is, ormore commonly known as Dr C is
the founder of the WaltersWellness Group.
She offers courses and supportgroups that empower individuals
and couples.
(00:43):
She designs and facilitatesretreats and events.
She individually sees clients.
She works for giantcorporations like Google, live
Nation, wikimedia.
She's a force.
Sarah Anne (00:58):
Yeah, she really has her hands in everything and
that's one of the reasons why welove talking to her so much.
She brings wisdom fromdifferent areas from science.
She weaves science withembodiedness, with mindfulness,
with coaching, with psychology,and the conversation just weaves
in and out about why sleep isso important.
(01:19):
Sleep and rest is one of ourworthiness wheel spokes.
Sleep and rest is one of ourworthiness wheel spokes.
I think it's one that surprisespeople and this episode really
dives into that link between howsleep and rest really does
impact how we feel about worth,how we move through the world
and Dr C does this so well abouthow we connect and have
(01:40):
relationships with others.
Sarah Kelly (01:43):
Without further ado , we enter this conversation
with laughter.
Well, we are beyond excited andgrateful to have Dr C with us
and as a leader in embodimentand self-compassion.
We live in a culture that putsa lot of shame and stigma around
sleep.
That puts a lot of shame andstigma around sleep.
(02:07):
What is it you've observed asyou talk to people about sleep
and rest and why is rest soimportant in your work?
Dr. Cathia Walters (02:12):
There's a lot of stigma around oh, you're
lazy, get up.
You know you've been sleepingfor 12 hours, you've been
sleeping for 10 hours, you knowthings like that, and there
needs to be an understandingthat different bodies and
different age range need adifferent level or different
amount of sleep.
So let's start there.
The thing is that most peopledo not understand the importance
(02:33):
of sleep and rest and how theyactually impact our physical
bodies as well as our mind.
Oftentimes it takes aneducation you know trying to
educate people about why is itso important and why does it
vary at different stages.
For example, teenagers needmore sleep, right?
Because when we sleep, there'sa lot of growth, there's a lot
(02:55):
of things that are happening.
Why is rest so important?
The first thing to keep in mindis sleep and rest are similar
in a lot of ways but verydifferent, and I think a lot of
times when we tell people torest, they equate that with
sleep, but it doesn't mean sleep.
Sleep is a more structured timethat we put aside, and it could
(03:16):
be during the day, it could beat night.
We often think of it as night,but when we think about rest, I
look at rest as it's a time thatyou can just chill out, right?
So while both sleep and restrelaxes the body, sleep is more
of a physical and mental thing,rest I think of rest as more of
(03:37):
a almost like a spiritual andpsychological rejuvenation that
happens.
We chill, so I can in themiddle of the day, you know, I'm
like you know what I'mexhausted or I'm bored.
I just need to disconnect,right.
So that's how I think of rest.
It's a period of time where Ican just disconnect from
(03:58):
everything that's happeningaround me.
It's very conscious, unlikesleep, which is more of an
altered state, right?
So with rest it's moreconscious.
I'm still aware of what'shappening around me, but when
I'm done with whatever I'm doing, I feel energized.
Rest looks different fordifferent people, so for some
people it's taking a nap.
(04:19):
I take naps, I love naps as myrest period and I've trained
myself to take a two-minute napand I feel invigorated.
And I actually learned about iton accident.
I was in undergrad.
I was in a biologist seminarand I was so tired and I
remember Professor Levine wasteaching and I'm sitting there
(04:39):
like I can't do this and Iliterally closed my eyes and I
remember jumping up.
I'm like, oh my God, it has noteven been two minutes.
But guess what?
I was able to finish that class.
And that's when I learned I'mlike oh, I don't have to sleep
for five hours, I can rest Interms of my work.
(05:03):
It's really about helping peopleunderstand that, throughout the
day, when you're feelingexhausted, when you're feeling
depleted, when you're feelingirritated any of those things
it's okay to just break for fiveminutes and do something Listen
to music, go for you know, reada book, call your friend,
(05:24):
journal, meditate.
Keep it short because you don'twant to interrupt the rest of
your day.
From a psychologicalperspective, it's a nice way to
just quickly disconnect andground yourself so that you can
continue.
Whatever it is that you'redoing, whether it's at work,
whether it's at home, whetherit's with your family.
(05:45):
Think of it as rest, as agrounding practice, so that you
feel energized, you feelre-motivated to do, to continue
your day.
Sarah Anne (05:56):
Dr C, I love that and one of the reasons why we
love all of our conversationswith you is that focus that you
put on community.
So even in that answer you knowyou're talking about the self,
but it was threaded through likehow it helps those community
ties.
And we're reading your blogposts and just loving them and
(06:18):
you said in one of them that thecreation of healthy communities
and all relationships beginswith self and healing.
And what role do you see sleepand rest, that moment of
disconnection, as actuallyhelping to aid that?
Dr. Cathia Walters (06:33):
A lot of times people think of healing.
They think of I need to eat,right, I need to drink water, I
need to exercise, I need tobreathe.
Here's the thing Sleep is justas essential as the air we
breathe, as the food and as thewater.
And why is that important?
Because when we sleep, there'sa lot of metabolic changes that
(06:58):
are happening.
It's extremely restorative.
Our body literally shuts down,basically, it's purifying itself
.
But there's also thepsychological piece.
There's a reset, there's anactual reset that is happening
mentally and physically when wesleep, and so what happens is
psychologically.
(07:18):
I don't know about you, but Iknow if I don't get enough sleep
, I'm not in the best of moodsthe next day.
Right, I'm just going to speakfor myself.
I'm not in the best of moodwhen I don't feel rested right,
because there's an element ofrest that's associated with
sleep, right?
So, even though earlier I saidyou know they're similar in a
(07:41):
lot of ways because they're bothinvolved the body getting rest
and relaxation.
When you go to the doctor andyou're sick, what's the first
thing they tell you?
Rest, exactly, right, rest.
And there's a reason behindthat.
As kids, we don't know,understand what that means,
because as kids, we're like,whatever, I'm gonna go outside,
I'm gonna play, right.
(08:02):
And then we learn that, withadequate sleep and rest, what's
happening is bones arerejuvenating, the memory, the
serotonin level, all or hormonallevels or neurotransmitters are
doing something, because it'soutside of our consciousness, so
we're not aware of that.
But when we wake up, when weget enough rest speaking for me,
(08:23):
when I get enough rest, I wakeup, I feel refreshed, I feel
rejuvenated, and that could beafter five hours.
And that's how I know.
When I have my core sleep, Ifeel good, I'm ready to go, I
can take on the world.
(08:43):
That means that my cortisol waslow enough, so healing was
happening.
I may not be aware of it becauseI'm in an altered state, but
there's a lot that's happeningright and so, yes, it begins
with self.
It begins with reallyunderstanding how important
sleep is, not only to my mentalstate but to my physical state.
So, physiologically,psychologically, I need to do
that because that's how I'mgoing to be able to show up for
(09:05):
others.
I can't if I'm crotchety, right, or I can, but it's not going
to be pretty right, because wecan show up.
But how do I show up in ahealthy way and for me to be in
communities that are healthy.
I have to be healthy, meaning Ineed to take care of this
physical and the psychologicalbody, and one way is via sleep
(09:28):
and rest.
So let's not forget rest right.
We all know our bodies and weall know what number or hours of
sleep we need to wake upfeeling refreshed, right.
I think we're all under thismisconception that we all need
eight or nine hours of sleep orelse we're not going to be able
(09:49):
to function, but that's not true.
There's quality sleep andthat's the core sleep.
So the core sleep is basicallywhen I go to sleep, I'm able to
fall asleep, I'm able to stayasleep and after X number of
hours, when I wake up, I feelrefreshed, I feel energized, I
feel like I've been sleeping for20 hours.
Sarah Kelly (10:12):
A lot of us share homes with others, so we may be
in situations where the peoplein our house don't need the same
kind of sleep or rejuvenationthat we need, and one of the
other things that you reallyalways articulate so well is
communication, and we're goingto quote another blog post,
because we're apparently likeblog post super fans, because
(10:34):
we're apparently like blog postsuper fans.
Effective communication requireshealthy boundaries, compassion
for oneself, a sense ofself-worth and the courage
required to actually share yourneeds.
Okay, my mic drop on thatautomatically.
It's such a beautiful line.
How do you start to haveeffective communication around
(10:56):
sleep in the house if there aresuch different needs?
Dr. Cathia Walters (10:59):
Mm-hmm.
We're all communicators,sometimes just not as well.
And so I always start off byreminding people that when we're
effective in our communication,everybody wins.
Everyone wins when we'reeffective.
When we're aggressive, nobodywins.
We think we win if we're theaggressor, but really and truly,
(11:20):
what did we win by bullyingsomeone?
And then if we're passive,nobody wins either, because
after a while the person who'spassive becomes resentful and
it's going to blow up.
So what if we are able to find away to state to the other
person this is where I'm at,these are my needs, and help the
(11:40):
person understand how helpingme meet my needs benefits them.
First, I have to understandwhat it means for me.
So, going back to some of theprevious questions, I have to
know, you know, what does mysleep look like?
How much sleep do I need?
How does it benefit me?
How does it not benefit me,right?
So it has to start there, right, because I cannot change
(12:03):
something or articulatesomething that I'm not aware of.
Once there's an understandingon my part, then I'm able to
articulate that to you.
I'm able to say to people in myhousehold whether it's the kids
and I'm including the kidsbecause they need to understand
too right.
Whether it's the kids, whetherit's my partner, extended family
members, here are my boundariesaround sleep.
(12:26):
I need to be in bed at acertain time for me to be
effective the next day, certaintime for me to be effective the
next day.
So what that means is I'm atyour disposal until this time.
After that, I'm done.
But the idea is to help themsee that, understand that and
then to be able to say now whathappens when I don't get enough
(12:49):
sleep.
As you can witness, yesterday,when I did not have enough sleep
, I was not the easiest to talkto, right, I did not have much
patience, I could not hear youand when I did try to respond,
your feelings was hurt because Iwas snappy.
So this is what I need to do.
True story, and I love it.
(13:11):
She's going to hear this untilshe's 100, if I'm still around
my grandbaby, my granddaughter.
I've since then shifted mybedtime.
My bedtime years ago was 10 pm,when all the kids were home and
there was homework and allthese things.
And I remember I was in thekitchen one evening and I think
(13:33):
I was prepping dinner.
I was in the kitchen, you know,one evening and I think I was
prepping dinner and she camearound the corner and she said
grandma, are you off the clock?
And I looked at her and Ilaughed and I said no, baby, I
still have another two hours togo.
Where that comes from is the wayI set my boundaries and I
communicated with those in myhousehold and I use that
(13:54):
language.
I said I'm off the clock at 10pm, meaning anything you want up
until 9.50, I'm here.
And I kid you not, she was atthat time, I think she was four
or five, which is what made itso cute, right?
And that's why I said you canteach the kids, because it's
also helping them learn how tohave better self-care, right?
(14:17):
Because, as I said earlier,sleep is a form of self-care and
we need to also start teachingthose around us how to practice
self-care by modeling self-carefor them.
I thought that was the cutestlittle thing.
When she came around, Iactually laughed.
I thought it was so her voice,because it was like you know,
(14:39):
she wanted something clearly,but she didn't want to.
You know, push my boundaries.
So she's like Grandma, are youoff the clock?
Are you still on the clock?
You know the funny thing aboutit as cute as she was.
Maybe in that moment, if I wasoff as cute as she was, I
probably would have given in towhat she wanted.
(15:00):
When we effectively communicatethose things, that's the end
results, right Is people areable to hear it, they're able to
see it, they're able to respectit, and that ties into our
self-worth, because if I know myself-worth, I teach you how to
respect that.
Sarah Anne (15:21):
How can sleep, and especially rest, be a part of a
practice of radicalself-compassion and self-worth?
Dr. Cathia Walters (15:30):
Question for you both.
How much do you love yourself?
And for anyone that's listening, how much do you love yourself?
Do I love myself enough and doI love myself enough to be kind
to myself?
Do I love myself enough to bekind to myself and to share that
kindness with myself?
Meaning, can I say positiveself-statements to myself even
(15:55):
when I have poor sleep?
Because the thing aboutself-compassion and sleep and
self-worth is, it's very quickfor our minds to go into this
cycle of negative self-talk,including around sleep.
There must be something wrongwith me.
While I'm not sleeping, I'mnever going to be able to sleep
(16:15):
again.
Oh my God, I'm going to havesuch a horrible day tomorrow.
I'm such a horrible sleeper.
And the moment I start doingthose things and saying those
statements, I start this wholenegative cycle.
And if I'm doing that while I'mlaying down, guess what's not
going to happen?
Sleep, it's not going to happen.
I actually did create what Ipredicted I am going to have a
(16:38):
horrible day because my cortisolis going to be up.
I'm not going to be rested.
So I'm going to be grumpy allday.
My concentration is going tohave a horrible day because my
cortisol is going to be up.
I'm not going to be rested, soI'm going to be grumpy all day.
My concentration is going to begone.
All of these things are goingto happen if I don't have a way
to kind of catch myself andcheck myself and then
compassionately change thosestatements.
The thing to understand is thatwith this sleep cycle we can
(17:01):
change that Again.
Adequate sleep is needed.
Our bodies rejuvenate, healinghappens, but not just healing.
There's the connections thathappens if we're able to sleep
well.
So when our mind goes rememberduring sleep, that's when we
organize, stuff, consolidates,we lock in new memories, we work
(17:23):
through old memories, right.
So there's all the stuff that'shappening.
But there's also a piece thathas to do with intimacy.
If we're in relationships andwe don't get enough sleep or
we're tired, intimacy suffers.
If intimacy suffers,relationship issues happen
because there's not thatconnection.
(17:44):
If I have a poor sense of self,so if my self-esteem is low,
guess what's going to happen?
I'm going to again create now anew cycle of stories Started
off with poor sleep, but now I'mnot having sex with my partner.
I'm going to start thinking I'mnot good enough.
They're going to be.
Things are going to happen, andnow I have another cycle going
(18:06):
over here.
If I don't have a sense ofself-worth, if I'm not solid in
who I know I am and I'm able tochange those statements, if I am
contingent on other people'sbeliefs and things, then my
self-esteem is going to do this.
Self-worth is solid, becausethere's a difference between
(18:27):
self-esteem and self-worth.
So if my self-worth is there,if I know who I am, even when my
sleep is erratic, even if mysleep is affecting my
relationship, my intimacy, mycommunication, relationship, my
intimacy, my communication, ifmy self-worth is still intact, I
(18:47):
can still teach people how totreat me, and that's
self-respect.
I will have self-respect formyself.
But it all comes back to.
I have to start here.
I have to be kind to myself.
I have to be able to say youknow what, kathya, it's okay.
You probably got a lot moresleep than you realize and
you've functioned before on fourhours of sleep.
(19:10):
You've got this.
It's not the end of the world.
Yes, it's true that you did notget enough sleep last night and
you've done this before whereyou were still able to.
And these are the things thatyou can do to get through the
day.
We can schedule a couple ofrests.
Look at your schedule.
Oh, look at that.
(19:30):
There's a whole block of timehere that we can use that to
rejuvenate.
We can eat, we can nap, we cango for a walk, you can finish
your journaling.
It comes back to how kind am Ito myself?
What am I saying to myself?
So do I love me enough to sayyou know what?
It's okay, I know?
I'm afraid because I think,because that's what everybody
(19:51):
says oh my God, you don't getenough sleep, you're going to
fall apart.
Well, it can happen.
Or I can look at it and reframeit and put things in place,
because I know I love me enoughto make these changes.
That's up to me to make thosechanges, not anyone else.
And I know what my worth is, Iknow what I'm capable of, and so
(20:13):
that's what I'm going to do andthis is how I'm going to do it.
Sarah Kelly (20:18):
Thank you, dr C, and for our listeners, who
enjoyed this conversation asmuch as we did.
We have all of Dr C's contactinfo below in the description,
so make sure to go to herwebsite, follow her socials and
join the number one blog postclub that Sarah and I will be
starting.
She comes out with great poststhat are so informative and
(20:40):
helpful, and we will have thatall below for you, dr C.
Thank you from the bottom ofour hearts.
Dr. Cathia Walters (20:47):
You're both so welcome.
I love you guys.
You know, when I first met youguys, I'm like, well, I actually
like them.
I love the smiles, I love theenergy and I still talk about
you guys and so I really happyand honored to be on your
podcast.
You guys are doing really greatwork, so I commend you on that.
Okay, Sarah, today's conversation, one of our
favorite topics with one of ourfavorite people.
Yes, do we say this about everytopic and every person?
Sarah Anne (00:10):
We do, but this time it's on rest and sleep.
Are you kidding me?
Are you kidding me With DrKatya Walters?
Yes, dr C, it was such a richconversation.
Sarah Kelly (00:23):
We met Dr C in Costa Rica and instantly it was
just a mutual love of oneanother love fest of Sarah's and
Dr C.
And Dr Kathia Walters is, ormore commonly known as Dr C is
the founder of the WaltersWellness Group.
She offers courses and supportgroups that empower individuals
and couples.
(00:43):
She designs and facilitatesretreats and events.
She individually sees clients.
She works for giantcorporations like Google, live
Nation, wikimedia.
She's a force.
Sarah Anne (00:58):
Yeah, she really has her hands in everything and
that's one of the reasons why welove talking to her so much.
She brings wisdom fromdifferent areas from science.
She weaves science withembodiedness, with mindfulness,
with coaching, with psychology,and the conversation just weaves
in and out about why sleep isso important.
(01:19):
Sleep and rest is one of ourworthiness wheel spokes.
Sleep and rest is one of ourworthiness wheel spokes.
I think it's one that surprisespeople and this episode really
dives into that link between howsleep and rest really does
impact how we feel about worth,how we move through the world
and Dr C does this so well abouthow we connect and have
(01:40):
relationships with others.
Sarah Kelly (01:43):
Without further ado , we enter this conversation
with laughter.
Well, we are beyond excited andgrateful to have Dr C with us
and as a leader in embodimentand self-compassion.
We live in a culture that putsa lot of shame and stigma around
sleep.
That puts a lot of shame andstigma around sleep.
(02:07):
What is it you've observed asyou talk to people about sleep
and rest and why is rest soimportant in your work?
Dr. Cathia Walters (02:12):
There's a lot of stigma around oh, you're
lazy, get up.
You know you've been sleepingfor 12 hours, you've been
sleeping for 10 hours, you knowthings like that, and there
needs to be an understandingthat different bodies and
different age range need adifferent level or different
amount of sleep.
So let's start there.
The thing is that most peopledo not understand the importance
(02:33):
of sleep and rest and how theyactually impact our physical
bodies as well as our mind.
Oftentimes it takes aneducation you know trying to
educate people about why is itso important and why does it
vary at different stages.
For example, teenagers needmore sleep, right?
Because when we sleep, there'sa lot of growth, there's a lot
(02:55):
of things that are happening.
Why is rest so important?
The first thing to keep in mindis sleep and rest are similar
in a lot of ways but verydifferent, and I think a lot of
times when we tell people torest, they equate that with
sleep, but it doesn't mean sleep.
Sleep is a more structured timethat we put aside, and it could
(03:16):
be during the day, it could beat night.
We often think of it as night,but when we think about rest, I
look at rest as it's a time thatyou can just chill out, right?
So while both sleep and restrelaxes the body, sleep is more
of a physical and mental thing,rest I think of rest as more of
(03:37):
a almost like a spiritual andpsychological rejuvenation that
happens.
We chill, so I can in themiddle of the day, you know, I'm
like you know what I'mexhausted or I'm bored.
I just need to disconnect,right.
So that's how I think of rest.
It's a period of time where Ican just disconnect from
(03:58):
everything that's happeningaround me.
It's very conscious, unlikesleep, which is more of an
altered state, right?
So with rest it's moreconscious.
I'm still aware of what'shappening around me, but when
I'm done with whatever I'm doing, I feel energized.
Rest looks different fordifferent people, so for some
people it's taking a nap.
(04:19):
I take naps, I love naps as myrest period and I've trained
myself to take a two-minute napand I feel invigorated.
And I actually learned about iton accident.
I was in undergrad.
I was in a biologist seminarand I was so tired and I
remember Professor Levine wasteaching and I'm sitting there
(04:39):
like I can't do this and Iliterally closed my eyes and I
remember jumping up.
I'm like, oh my God, it has noteven been two minutes.
But guess what?
I was able to finish that class.
And that's when I learned I'mlike oh, I don't have to sleep
for five hours, I can rest Interms of my work.
(05:03):
It's really about helping peopleunderstand that, throughout the
day, when you're feelingexhausted, when you're feeling
depleted, when you're feelingirritated any of those things
it's okay to just break for fiveminutes and do something Listen
to music, go for you know, reada book, call your friend,
(05:24):
journal, meditate.
Keep it short because you don'twant to interrupt the rest of
your day.
From a psychologicalperspective, it's a nice way to
just quickly disconnect andground yourself so that you can
continue.
Whatever it is that you'redoing, whether it's at work,
whether it's at home, whetherit's with your family.
(05:45):
Think of it as rest, as agrounding practice, so that you
feel energized, you feelre-motivated to do, to continue
your day.
Sarah Anne (05:56):
Dr C, I love that and one of the reasons why we
love all of our conversationswith you is that focus that you
put on community.
So even in that answer you knowyou're talking about the self,
but it was threaded through likehow it helps those community
ties.
And we're reading your blogposts and just loving them and
(06:18):
you said in one of them that thecreation of healthy communities
and all relationships beginswith self and healing.
And what role do you see sleepand rest, that moment of
disconnection, as actuallyhelping to aid that?
Dr. Cathia Walters (06:33):
A lot of times people think of healing.
They think of I need to eat,right, I need to drink water, I
need to exercise, I need tobreathe.
Here's the thing Sleep is justas essential as the air we
breathe, as the food and as thewater.
And why is that important?
Because when we sleep, there'sa lot of metabolic changes that
(06:58):
are happening.
It's extremely restorative.
Our body literally shuts down,basically, it's purifying itself
.
But there's also thepsychological piece.
There's a reset, there's anactual reset that is happening
mentally and physically when wesleep, and so what happens is
psychologically.
(07:18):
I don't know about you, but Iknow if I don't get enough sleep
, I'm not in the best of moodsthe next day.
Right, I'm just going to speakfor myself.
I'm not in the best of moodwhen I don't feel rested right,
because there's an element ofrest that's associated with
sleep, right?
So, even though earlier I saidyou know they're similar in a
(07:41):
lot of ways because they're bothinvolved the body getting rest
and relaxation.
When you go to the doctor andyou're sick, what's the first
thing they tell you?
Rest, exactly, right, rest.
And there's a reason behindthat.
As kids, we don't know,understand what that means,
because as kids, we're like,whatever, I'm gonna go outside,
I'm gonna play, right.
(08:02):
And then we learn that, withadequate sleep and rest, what's
happening is bones arerejuvenating, the memory, the
serotonin level, all or hormonallevels or neurotransmitters are
doing something, because it'soutside of our consciousness, so
we're not aware of that.
But when we wake up, when weget enough rest speaking for me,
(08:23):
when I get enough rest, I wakeup, I feel refreshed, I feel
rejuvenated, and that could beafter five hours.
And that's how I know.
When I have my core sleep, Ifeel good, I'm ready to go, I
can take on the world.
(08:43):
That means that my cortisol waslow enough, so healing was
happening.
I may not be aware of it becauseI'm in an altered state, but
there's a lot that's happeningright and so, yes, it begins
with self.
It begins with reallyunderstanding how important
sleep is, not only to my mentalstate but to my physical state.
So, physiologically,psychologically, I need to do
that because that's how I'mgoing to be able to show up for
(09:05):
others.
I can't if I'm crotchety, right, or I can, but it's not going
to be pretty right, because wecan show up.
But how do I show up in ahealthy way and for me to be in
communities that are healthy.
I have to be healthy, meaning Ineed to take care of this
physical and the psychologicalbody, and one way is via sleep
(09:28):
and rest.
So let's not forget rest right.
We all know our bodies and weall know what number or hours of
sleep we need to wake upfeeling refreshed, right.
I think we're all under thismisconception that we all need
eight or nine hours of sleep orelse we're not going to be able
(09:49):
to function, but that's not true.
There's quality sleep andthat's the core sleep.
So the core sleep is basicallywhen I go to sleep, I'm able to
fall asleep, I'm able to stayasleep and after X number of
hours, when I wake up, I feelrefreshed, I feel energized, I
feel like I've been sleeping for20 hours.
Sarah Kelly (10:12):
A lot of us share homes with others, so we may be
in situations where the peoplein our house don't need the same
kind of sleep or rejuvenationthat we need, and one of the
other things that you reallyalways articulate so well is
communication, and we're goingto quote another blog post,
because we're apparently likeblog post super fans, because
(10:34):
we're apparently like blog postsuper fans.
Effective communication requireshealthy boundaries, compassion
for oneself, a sense ofself-worth and the courage
required to actually share yourneeds.
Okay, my mic drop on thatautomatically.
It's such a beautiful line.
How do you start to haveeffective communication around
(10:56):
sleep in the house if there aresuch different needs?
Dr. Cathia Walters (10:59):
Mm-hmm.
We're all communicators,sometimes just not as well.
And so I always start off byreminding people that when we're
effective in our communication,everybody wins.
Everyone wins when we'reeffective.
When we're aggressive, nobodywins.
We think we win if we're theaggressor, but really and truly,
(11:20):
what did we win by bullyingsomeone?
And then if we're passive,nobody wins either, because
after a while the person who'spassive becomes resentful and
it's going to blow up.
So what if we are able to find away to state to the other
person this is where I'm at,these are my needs, and help the
(11:40):
person understand how helpingme meet my needs benefits them.
First, I have to understandwhat it means for me.
So, going back to some of theprevious questions, I have to
know, you know, what does mysleep look like?
How much sleep do I need?
How does it benefit me?
How does it not benefit me,right?
So it has to start there, right, because I cannot change
(12:03):
something or articulatesomething that I'm not aware of.
Once there's an understandingon my part, then I'm able to
articulate that to you.
I'm able to say to people in myhousehold whether it's the kids
and I'm including the kidsbecause they need to understand
too right.
Whether it's the kids, whetherit's my partner, extended family
members, here are my boundariesaround sleep.
(12:26):
I need to be in bed at acertain time for me to be
effective the next day, certaintime for me to be effective the
next day.
So what that means is I'm atyour disposal until this time.
After that, I'm done.
But the idea is to help themsee that, understand that and
then to be able to say now whathappens when I don't get enough
(12:49):
sleep.
As you can witness, yesterday,when I did not have enough sleep
, I was not the easiest to talkto, right, I did not have much
patience, I could not hear youand when I did try to respond,
your feelings was hurt because Iwas snappy.
So this is what I need to do.
True story, and I love it.
(13:11):
She's going to hear this untilshe's 100, if I'm still around
my grandbaby, my granddaughter.
I've since then shifted mybedtime.
My bedtime years ago was 10 pm,when all the kids were home and
there was homework and allthese things.
And I remember I was in thekitchen one evening and I think
(13:33):
I was prepping dinner.
I was in the kitchen, you know,one evening and I think I was
prepping dinner and she camearound the corner and she said
grandma, are you off the clock?
And I looked at her and Ilaughed and I said no, baby, I
still have another two hours togo.
Where that comes from is the wayI set my boundaries and I
communicated with those in myhousehold and I use that
(13:54):
language.
I said I'm off the clock at 10pm, meaning anything you want up
until 9.50, I'm here.
And I kid you not, she was atthat time, I think she was four
or five, which is what made itso cute, right?
And that's why I said you canteach the kids, because it's
also helping them learn how tohave better self-care, right?
(14:17):
Because, as I said earlier,sleep is a form of self-care and
we need to also start teachingthose around us how to practice
self-care by modeling self-carefor them.
I thought that was the cutestlittle thing.
When she came around, Iactually laughed.
I thought it was so her voice,because it was like you know,
(14:39):
she wanted something clearly,but she didn't want to.
You know, push my boundaries.
So she's like Grandma, are youoff the clock?
Are you still on the clock?
You know the funny thing aboutit as cute as she was.
Maybe in that moment, if I wasoff as cute as she was, I
probably would have given in towhat she wanted.
(15:00):
When we effectively communicatethose things, that's the end
results, right Is people areable to hear it, they're able to
see it, they're able to respectit, and that ties into our
self-worth, because if I know myself-worth, I teach you how to
respect that.
Sarah Anne (15:21):
How can sleep, and especially rest, be a part of a
practice of radicalself-compassion and self-worth?
Dr. Cathia Walters (15:30):
Question for you both.
How much do you love yourself?
And for anyone that's listening, how much do you love yourself?
Do I love myself enough and doI love myself enough to be kind
to myself?
Do I love myself enough to bekind to myself and to share that
kindness with myself?
Meaning, can I say positiveself-statements to myself even
(15:55):
when I have poor sleep?
Because the thing aboutself-compassion and sleep and
self-worth is, it's very quickfor our minds to go into this
cycle of negative self-talk,including around sleep.
There must be something wrongwith me.
While I'm not sleeping, I'mnever going to be able to sleep
(16:15):
again.
Oh my God, I'm going to havesuch a horrible day tomorrow.
I'm such a horrible sleeper.
And the moment I start doingthose things and saying those
statements, I start this wholenegative cycle.
And if I'm doing that while I'mlaying down, guess what's not
going to happen?
Sleep, it's not going to happen.
I actually did create what Ipredicted I am going to have a
(16:38):
horrible day because my cortisolis going to be up.
I'm not going to be rested.
So I'm going to be grumpy allday.
My concentration is going tohave a horrible day because my
cortisol is going to be up.
I'm not going to be rested, soI'm going to be grumpy all day.
My concentration is going to begone.
All of these things are goingto happen if I don't have a way
to kind of catch myself andcheck myself and then
compassionately change thosestatements.
The thing to understand is thatwith this sleep cycle we can
(17:01):
change that Again.
Adequate sleep is needed.
Our bodies rejuvenate, healinghappens, but not just healing.
There's the connections thathappens if we're able to sleep
well.
So when our mind goes rememberduring sleep, that's when we
organize, stuff, consolidates,we lock in new memories, we work
(17:23):
through old memories, right.
So there's all the stuff that'shappening.
But there's also a piece thathas to do with intimacy.
If we're in relationships andwe don't get enough sleep or
we're tired, intimacy suffers.
If intimacy suffers,relationship issues happen
because there's not thatconnection.
(17:44):
If I have a poor sense of self,so if my self-esteem is low,
guess what's going to happen?
I'm going to again create now anew cycle of stories Started
off with poor sleep, but now I'mnot having sex with my partner.
I'm going to start thinking I'mnot good enough.
They're going to be.
Things are going to happen, andnow I have another cycle going
(18:06):
over here.
If I don't have a sense ofself-worth, if I'm not solid in
who I know I am and I'm able tochange those statements, if I am
contingent on other people'sbeliefs and things, then my
self-esteem is going to do this.
Self-worth is solid, becausethere's a difference between
(18:27):
self-esteem and self-worth.
So if my self-worth is there,if I know who I am, even when my
sleep is erratic, even if mysleep is affecting my
relationship, my intimacy, mycommunication, relationship, my
intimacy, my communication, ifmy self-worth is still intact, I
(18:47):
can still teach people how totreat me, and that's
self-respect.
I will have self-respect formyself.
But it all comes back to.
I have to start here.
I have to be kind to myself.
I have to be able to say youknow what, kathya, it's okay.
You probably got a lot moresleep than you realize and
you've functioned before on fourhours of sleep.
(19:10):
You've got this.
It's not the end of the world.
Yes, it's true that you did notget enough sleep last night and
you've done this before whereyou were still able to.
And these are the things thatyou can do to get through the
day.
We can schedule a couple ofrests.
Look at your schedule.
Oh, look at that.
(19:30):
There's a whole block of timehere that we can use that to
rejuvenate.
We can eat, we can nap, we cango for a walk, you can finish
your journaling.
It comes back to how kind am Ito myself?
What am I saying to myself?
So do I love me enough to sayyou know what?
It's okay, I know?
I'm afraid because I think,because that's what everybody
(19:51):
says oh my God, you don't getenough sleep, you're going to
fall apart.
Well, it can happen.
Or I can look at it and reframeit and put things in place,
because I know I love me enoughto make these changes.
That's up to me to make thosechanges, not anyone else.
And I know what my worth is, Iknow what I'm capable of, and so
(20:13):
that's what I'm going to do andthis is how I'm going to do it.
Sarah Kelly (20:18):
Thank you, dr C, and for our listeners, who
enjoyed this conversation asmuch as we did.
We have all of Dr C's contactinfo below in the description,
so make sure to go to herwebsite, follow her socials and
join the number one blog postclub that Sarah and I will be
starting.
She comes out with great poststhat are so informative and
(20:40):
helpful, and we will have thatall below for you, dr C.
Thank you from the bottom ofour hearts.
Dr. Cathia Walters (20:47):
You're both so welcome.
I love you guys.
You know, when I first met youguys, I'm like, well, I actually
like them.
I love the smiles, I love theenergy and I still talk about
you guys and so I really happyand honored to be on your
podcast.
You guys are doing really greatwork, so I commend you on that.
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