August 14, 2024 • 29 mins
Have you ever felt like the weight of the world is too much to bear? You’re not alone.
In this vulnerable episode, Sarah Anne and Sarah Kelly explore their own experiences of losing and rediscovering hope, including a recent period where Sarah Anne felt completely devoid of hope—a state she had never experienced before. It was not fun.
Together, we explore the heavy, suffocating grip of hopelessness and the steps we've taken to navigate those moments when anxiety and depression take hold. (Spoiler: the answer lies in community and connection!)
When in that state of hopelessness, even the simplest acts of self-care and reaching out for support can feel impossible. The things that did bring us joy, hope and connection stop working. We don’t have the energy to do the things we normally do to keep regulated and balanced.
But what if we could ask for help? Or even just accept help when it is offered? How might our community guide us back to joy and hope? Letting others in, even when it’s terrifying, can remind us that we’re not alone. And help us reconnect to hope.
Whether you’re facing a significant life challenge or just the everyday grind, this episode offers practical advice, stories from our experiences with mental health, and a powerful reminder that it’s okay to not have everything together.
If you’re struggling with the feelings of hopelessness, isolation, anxiety, depression or self-harm, please reach out for help. Our podcast is for educational and informational purposes only, based on our personal experiences, and does not constitute providing medical advice or professional services. A licensed mental health professional can help you discover the path of healing right for you. We’re here, and we understand.
Listeners in the USA can call the National Alliance on Mental Illness (NAMI) Helpline Monday-Friday from 10am-10pm ET at 1-800-950-NAMI (6264), text “HelpLine” to 62640, or visit https://www.nami.org/support-education/nami-helpline/ for more resources.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Sarah Anne (00:00):
I'm really excited because we kind of we took a
little break from our podcastand now we are back.
Sarah Kelly (00:05):
We are back and I love what we're coming back with
, because today we're comingback with hope.
That's the topic.
Hope, spark of light, thatthing that makes us all like, oh
yay, we got this.
That's what we want to talk.
Sarah Anne (00:23):
I'm so excited about this topic and, um, I recently
I really got the experience ofwhat it's like to live without
hope.
Um, and it was, it was hard.
Um, I've never, I've never feltlike that before, like I didn't
know what to do.
I didn't know like who to reachout to, like not having hope,
(00:47):
ooh.
Sarah Kelly (00:49):
Yeah, it's rough.
It's rough.
That darkness that can come ona personal level and a community
wide level is just so heavy,like I think of heaviness when I
think of loss of hope, likethat darkness that just like
can't breathe.
Heavy Like I think of heavinesswhen I think of loss of hope,
like that darkness that justlike can't breathe.
Um, and I was wondering if youwere going to want to talk about
(01:10):
your personal experience, andhere we are, so let's just dive
right in.
Last week or two weeks ago, Igot a call from Sarah and I
heard her voice and I was likewhat is wrong?
And I heard her voice and I waslike what is wrong?
Sarah Anne (01:25):
I didn't even have the words I, I and here let's
just be transparent.
What did I feel hopeless about?
It was the entire world, it was.
There was no part of my lifethat I could see hope in.
And I know that sounds superdefeatist now, because I have
hope again, but that was so real.
(01:46):
I didn't know what to do and Ididn't even know how to start
the conversation and I'm sograteful that you did, because
basically I just started, I wasjust crying.
I would just cry like multipletimes every day.
We'd be like talking on thephone and I would just start
crying again because I wouldremember how hopeless and
horrible the world was.
Sarah Kelly (02:08):
And it was a stark contrast because, as someone
that, for myself, struggles withdepression and anxiety, like I
can get in these tunnels andhave, like my lifetime and while
you have struggled with yourown mental health issues at
different times like you havealways had this air of lightness
(02:29):
, like it's all going to be okay, like there's always an edge of
optimism.
That's not the toxic positivityoptimism, but like, oh no,
we're going to be okay, likeit's just always there.
It's a part of your innatepersonality that I've known
since we were in our early 20s.
And to hear like this wobble inyour voice and say I'm hopeless
(02:49):
.
I was like, okay, I'm gettingin the car, like I I don't know
when, I don't know how, but I'mgonna look at my calendar and I
am getting in the car to comeget you and you did, and it was
so helpful.
Sarah Anne (03:03):
And not only did did you, but but so did um, so did
Laura, and, like the that, forme there's multiple things that
brought back my hope, and I'llget to that in a moment, but I
think that was what was sosurprising for me.
Sarah is exactly what you said.
I'm a problem solver.
I look at the world, no matterhow bad it is, and I find
(03:24):
solutions.
I find solutions that we canimplement to, like, make the
world better, even if it's justa small part.
And a couple of weeks ago I waslooking at the problems and I
couldn't find a solution and Ididn't know what to do.
There was no solution that Icould see, and that was what
really brought me into thatstate of hopelessness.
(03:45):
What?
Sarah Kelly (03:46):
did that feel like, physically and mentally, like
what happened for you?
Sarah Anne (03:53):
You.
Physically, I was just.
I felt aches in my body, I feltexhausted, but mentally I
couldn't really feel anything.
I felt overwhelmed, I felttight, I felt nothing.
(04:17):
That's the truth.
And when I did feel anything, Ifelt despair.
I just felt pain in my heartand I felt like anytime I did
feel anything, I felt like theworld was going to end and like
I've truly never felt thatbefore.
Sarah Kelly (04:34):
So yeah, it's interesting to me because when
you describe it to me it feelslike a mixture of how I
experience both anxiety anddepression.
Like for depression, I alwaysjoke and please audience.
No, I'm joking because I take mymental health very seriously,
but I always say I'd ratherdepression than anxiety, because
(04:56):
at least depression I sleep, um, whereas anxiety, like I want
to pull off my skin and to me,when I have the combination that
can bring that hopelessness,it's this despair that's like so
deep that I can, like all Iwant to do is hide in my covers
and sleep, like I just want tocheck out from the world and at
the same time I want to likescream and rip off my like.
(05:21):
I can't describe it like morethan wanting to kind of like
pull off my skin Like this, likeitchiness of, like I need to do
something, like I can't doanything, like this desperation,
um, and with the two combinedit's really challenging, um,
challenging, and even justtalking about it, like my body's
(05:41):
gotten like really tense andlike braced.
It's that feeling of brace for,like what's going to happen,
because if there's no hope,what's going to happen?
Um, like hope is what I thriveon, like light is what I thrive
on Like that optimism, that likeno matter what, like there's
good on the other side is whatgets me through.
So when that's gone it justfeels like yeah.
Sarah Anne (06:06):
And like, even Even my, like as you know, I do have
mental health struggles as welland the things that normally
bring me peace, like being outin my garden, going for walks,
seeing my, seeing my spaghettisisters For, like, a Friday
night dinner, like those thingsI just kept not having the
energy and capability to do, andlike I, just my garden is right
(06:31):
there, you know, I can see itwhen I'm working.
And like I wasn't, I wasn'teven able to like, get myself
out there and like, yeah, For methat feels really scary.
Sarah Kelly (06:44):
Does that feel scary to you, or does it feel
sad or like a little of all ofit?
Sarah Anne (06:49):
When I was in it, I felt frustrated.
I felt really frustratedbecause I was like I felt
frustrated that I didn't havethe capabilities to do some
things that I felt like mightbring me back into, bring me out
of hopelessness.
The thing is is when I was inthat state and why I wasn't
(07:12):
doing those things was because Ifelt like nothing could restore
my hope.
I was like like I had the onevoice on my shoulder being like
girl, go out into your garden,connect with your friends, blah,
blah, blah, eat some food.
And the other voice would belike but what's the point?
(07:34):
What's the point If you go outin your garden, nothing's going
to change.
What's the point?
And like, that was really whereI was and I was.
I was so proud of myself forlike, for like when you guys
offered to come and to say yes,because that felt like a big
deal.
I was like, even when I saidyes, I was like say yes, you
need to.
But I was like it's not goingto change anything, nothing's
going to change by them coming.
(07:54):
Like you're still going to beand you're just going to drag
them down.
I was like, but I said yes andI was so, so grateful for it.
Sarah Kelly (08:03):
For the record, I was coming with it.
You said yes or no, Like Idon't know what's happening or
why it's happening, but I'mgoing to New York, that's just
what's happening.
It'll been like, well, what'shappening with Sarah?
I don't know, I'm just going toNew York.
(08:29):
I'm going to New York and Ithink, like you know, I think
this is such an importantconversation because I believe
that everyone experiences thisfeeling at some point in their
life.
Like some experience it often,some experience it very rarely,
but I feel like it's a universalfeeling that can happen and it
lends ears to why community isso important, Like why having
(08:51):
the people that know you so wellis so important and going with,
like how do we build that?
Because you know a friendshipof over 20 years like I can hear
in your voice.
But like what happens whenthat's not nearby or accessible?
And that's what I really lookat.
Like Ooh, we all have a hand inthis, whether it's like a
(09:13):
person down the street or yourbestie, Right, yeah.
Sarah Anne (09:18):
Yeah, and I think that's such a great reminder.
That you just said is likeeverybody at some point will
likely feel hopelessness, willlikely feel sadder than they
ever thought possible numberthan they ever thought possible
like and it's a reality.
Sarah Kelly (09:38):
We need to be talking about right Like,
because, especially those of uswho are eternally optimistic,
like I, was on a call this weekand I was like I'm hopeless
romantic, love will be there.
Love will be there, it's coming.
And so when so many people seethat as the outside version of
ourselves, um, I like theoutside version to be real too.
(10:00):
I'm like, oh yeah, sometimes itgets really dark over here.
Sarah Anne (10:05):
What do you do when you're in because you have so
many more tools for better orfor worse?
Sarah Kelly (10:14):
Yeah, I got.
I joked with my therapist thisweek.
I was like it turns out, 40years of therapy gives you like
a lot of tools and skills Like Iget to see them in real time
now, which is pretty amazing,you know.
It brings me back.
My first ever dark depressionwas medication induced, actually
(10:35):
by a migraine medication, and Ithink I would have struggled
with depression at some pointanyway, given trauma.
But I can see this so clearly.
I was like in sixth grade and Iwas playing some Madonna song
over and over.
I wish I could remember what itwas on the top of my head.
I'll have to find it and writeit at the bottom on a CD player.
Might've even been a tape, itmight've been a tape, sixth
(10:57):
grade could be.
It was like the changeover ofCDs and tapes and just feeling
like what's the point?
And my depression has alwaysgotten me to places of what's
the point?
Um, and feelings like I justwant this all to end, but never
a feeling.
I've never had um ideation tounalive myself, which I'm really
(11:21):
, really grateful for.
I'm really grateful for itbecause I think that combination
that can come in.
I just like have so muchrespect for the people that
fight through that.
For me, hope has always lookedlike well, it's looked different
over the years, so that was thefirst time I felt it.
Now, sometimes I feel like it'sautomatic response, like this
(11:42):
is what's happening.
So this is what I need to do,whether I want to or have the
energy to like, I often givemyself a time period to feel
feelings and then I have to dothe actionable steps, no matter
what like, just it is what hasto be done.
I have to go outside and breathefresh air.
I have to let my circle aroundme, my closest internal little
(12:04):
circle, know what's happening.
Immediately.
I call in my whole support team, I call in my therapist, my
sponsorship family, my friends,my family family, and let them
know and then do the things.
And I think that's also why,hearing your voice, I think that
(12:29):
bringing the people in is themost important step to get you
going, because they're thepeople that are like oh no,
we're going to go eat right now,we're going to go outside right
now, like, or you can just cryand I'm just going to sit here,
but it's that witness of what'shappening, because it's so
isolating and it feels, or atleast to me.
I want to really make clear myfeelings because I know it
(12:51):
happens differently for everyone.
I feel so disconnected from theworld.
Hopelessness to me isdisconnection.
It's disconnection to good, um.
It's disconnection toactionable.
It's disconnection to likesomething, um, joyful is going
(13:12):
to happen, and so the peoplethat are closest to me that can
like mirror back well, actuallyyou have a lot of connection,
like actually you've had a lotof joy and we're just going to
sit here while you don't.
And what do you need?
Yeah, I wouldn't have knownthat answer.
I would say connection is thenumber one thing to get me out,
and the hardest thing to do, thehardest thing to do when in
(13:35):
that state, is to connect withsomeone else, to connect with
someone else.
Sarah Anne (13:39):
Yeah, yeah, it was, I was, so I'm so lucky that, um,
that I had to talk to you,right?
I mean, we, we work together,so it wasn't an option to to not
and um, and I'm I'm verygrateful for that, yeah.
Sarah Kelly (13:56):
It's that built in daily connection, like we
connect on a daily basis, right?
So I think, in starting tothink of like building a toolkit
for anyone that's listening,it's like well, my brain goes to
solution too, right, if you'relike well, I don't have that
Like, how do you start buildingthat Like, how do you start
getting those relationshipswhere that person will hear the
voice Like or what happens there?
(14:17):
Or the scariest thing ever ofsaying like something's not
right and I, like I just need totell you.
I usually don't ask for help.
I usually say like I just needyou to know what's going on.
That's my way of saying like Imight need help and as long as I
know you're like right there,then I can, I can reach it, and
(14:38):
it's almost like knowing thathelps.
There is enough for me to nextstep.
What sparked your?
Sarah Anne (14:47):
hope.
Well, there is the in, theinward and the outward.
So the inward was theconnection.
Like the inward was y'all Ifyou, if, if we put up the video
of this, you're just going tosee him like crying this whole
episode.
So enjoy, that's normal for anyepisode with us as regular
listeners now.
(15:11):
But I think the biggest thingthat really got me through was
the connection, was seeing myfriends drop everything and
driving and being there for meand holding space and like that
I think was the most healingthing.
But then the outward worldshifted right.
I mean, for me that I think wasthe biggest thing because,
(15:35):
frankly, if you and Laura hadcome but nothing had changed, my
hope probably would have beenmuch longer to rekindle.
I would have felt support, Ihopefully would have gotten out
of that deep, deep hopelessness.
But my hope would have been alot more fractured than it is
now and a lot harder to sustain.
(15:56):
But, frankly, the biggest thingthat rekindled my hope was
Harris getting in the race, wasBiden taking a step back and
seeing maybe Project 2025 won'tbe a reality.
That, coupled with my communityand seeing how strong my
community was, made me realizethat my community is strong.
(16:17):
We are strong, but my communityis not unique.
The people that make it upreally are people that can
change the world, and now wehave an opportunity to.
And now I feel things won't beperfect if Harris is president
Of course not, it won't be rightbecause we have to change so
much.
But now I see hope and now Isee a way forward, and I truly
(16:43):
didn't before.
Sarah Kelly (16:45):
And I think, just like we need to address our
internal or like I guess it'snot necessarily internal, but
our our little life hopelessnessversus like world hopelessness,
like and the reality of I thinka couple of weeks ago is, when
you were crying, I was like yeah, yeah, yeah, it's scary, it's
(17:06):
scary, it's scary.
I don't know how I'm coping somedays or I'm not coping some
days, like so much is happeningworldwide that feels hopeless,
that just feels like what in thehumanity is going on, that just
(17:27):
feels like what in the humanityis going on.
And to be bombarded daily withwhat in the humanity is going on
by visual audio, all of thiswith our senses, in a way that
has never been exposed before,is just a lot for the human
experience.
It's a lot for the humanexperience and that's coming
(17:47):
from an extremely privilegedplace, like about as privileged
as you can get, and it's a lot.
And so I think the communitylevel of that we also saw like a
deep breath happen, like atleast in our little spheres a
couple of weeks ago, of likeokay, we're not alone in this,
(18:11):
like there are other people,there are other warriors, there
are other like truth seekers,there are other, all of these
people that have a layer ofeternal optimism for humanity
for humanity.
Sarah Anne (18:31):
Yeah, that is it.
And after, first of all, harrisrunning for president was what
restored my hope.
But I want to get Biden hisdues.
Biden stepping down gave mehope right.
An old, established white dudetaking a step away from power
for the betterment of thecountry did so much to restore
my hope.
And then, in addition to that,seeing the you know the hope
(18:53):
scrolling, you know, like thatweekend of like, once Biden made
the announcement, harrisstepped up and just all of the
beautiful content that wasuplifting again, that was
inspiring again, that was nottalking about hate but talking
about that connection and thatlove.
I cannot tell you the last timethat scrolling through social
media was healthy for me, butthese last couple of weeks it
(19:15):
has been Between Harris and thenall of the amazing, powerful
women and all of the athletes atthe Olympics seeing their
camaraderie across country linesand all of that these past
couple of weeks have done somuch to restore my hope and so
(19:39):
much realness and mental health.
Sarah Kelly (19:40):
Like I think that's like, oh, we're going to
address the actual realitythat's happening and we're going
to sprinkle joy on top.
Like that, to me, is what Ithink lifts me up, is like
there's a picture of HarrisonWalls just beaming and I was
like it's joy.
Like to me, that's what hope isHope equals joy.
(20:02):
Like it's that, no matter whatlife is going to be hard,
there's going to be trauma.
There's going to be people thatare unkind and cruel I'm not
going to say unkind, cruel andhave issues and I'm still going
to show up with joy.
Like that's to me the ultimatefighting tool.
Sarah Anne (20:33):
Like that's to me, the ultimate fighting tool is
feel the feelings, face reality,show up with joy and then take
action to bring that joy toothers.
Yeah, yes, the take action partis so important.
Yeah, and and and again.
Like going back now I feel likeI can take action.
Sarah Kelly (20:57):
Now I'm inspired again, right, it's like now I
feel like I can take action.
Now I'm inspired again.
It's like now I have energy.
I feel so strong now and it'sjust amazing what a couple of
weeks can do.
Yeah, the collective of hopemakers, peacemakers, joy makers
that are like no, this is goingto be hard, but we're going to.
We're not letting hate comeover us, we're not letting fear
win, we're not letting bulliescome in and like take over, um,
(21:23):
and that can be so trueinternally, when you're in that
moment of like, hey, you knowwhat negative voice who feels
like there's nothing in the lake, it's not worth it, like, let's
just quiet down a little.
I'm just going to give you,we're going to sprinkle a little
love and joy and say like heard, and no, not today.
(21:43):
Today I'm going to get up, butin that hopeless state it's so
hard, it's so hard.
Sarah Anne (21:52):
It's so hard.
Yeah, the collective really gotme out of it, though you know
like community and the communityI know, but then community, I
don't know.
You know both like helped me toget out of it, so maybe that's,
maybe that's a place to start.
If you're looking for communityand don't have it yet in your
real life, are there somecontent creators that you want
(22:16):
to follow that bring you joywhen you see them Start there?
I know, right, we always lookdown on social media, but it is
a tool that we can use if we useit selectively, I think it goes
back to what we always say isthe irony of self-love is that
it happens in community.
Sarah Kelly (22:33):
Like you know, all of the self-love first and stuff
happens in community.
It is through community that welearn to love ourselves.
It is in community that we areable to, like, step into the
hope.
Sarah Anne (22:47):
That's so true, and you know I feel like we talk
about this a lot.
It's okay If you're doingaction at first, not for you,
right?
If you need to like,externalize it and and um, do it
for someone else or do it foryour future or whatever, that's
okay.
You know that doing it foryourself will come when you're
(23:07):
on the path.
Sarah Kelly (23:10):
You know, and I also think, like thinking of
community past, just people too,like I know, people whose dogs
have saved their lives, like inactive addiction, like taking a
dog for a walk or feeding it waswhat like kept them alive, like
kept that hope.
And so I think like justfinding those small ways too,
which isn't small your family,your furry friend and family
(23:34):
member, but it's not alwayshuman connection.
So I just want to say that outloud too.
I feel like that's reallyimportant to voice.
Sarah Anne (23:42):
Thank you for voicing that, because Smokey the
cat was instrumental inbringing back my hope.
Yeah, girlfriend, even thoughit was like 90 degrees would be
like on my stomach, cuddling andjust purring and like, yeah,
just giving so much love.
So I, and if you're in a spotwhere you can't have an animal
companion, volunteer, volunteerat an animal shelter and, like I
(24:05):
know, right earlier I said Icouldn't even go out into the
garden.
So I want to say lots to you.
If you heard this and you'relike, yes, I'm hopeless, I'm
going to go to the animalshelter, okay, I understand that
I wouldn't have been able to dothat.
Sarah Kelly (24:17):
Okay, I was going to bring it down to a notch.
So just go visit the animalshelter and pet a dog or a cat.
That's better.
If you can volunteer, you'relike gold stars on your way to
like.
Oh, If all you can do is stop aneighbor walking by with a dog
to say hi to the dog, that workstoo, maybe start there, my
(24:42):
eternally optimistic Sarah isback.
She is back Well, and laughing.
That's such an importantreminder is we don't actually go
anywhere.
Like if you're listening tothis and feeling hopeless, like
you're in there, your spark isstill there, you just can't see
(25:03):
it, and I think that is.
You know, these points ofreminders to like, oh, this
isn't forever, this is today.
Like this isn't forever, thisis for the next hour, this isn't
forever.
Like, however small, you needto break it down, cause that
would be the other thing thatI've done.
To like, help my brain.
(25:24):
It's like you know what, forthe next 10 minutes, I'm going
to be okay.
The next 10 minutes, I'm goingto shelve this thought and just
go take a shower, or if I makesome toast, it's not going to
change anything, but I am goingto be fed and that will make me
feel better about the world,maybe.
Or I'll just go back to sleep,like just little tricks.
Sarah Anne (25:47):
Okay, I love that Because that's something I
couldn't do.
Like when I was in that state,I actually felt like change
wasn't possible.
I was like I don't see howthings can change and I wasn't
looking small enough, I wasmaking change, I was.
And that, breaking it down into10-minute increments, man,
(26:08):
sarah, that is a tool, that's areally good tool.
Sarah Kelly (26:12):
Wow, way less than one day at a time.
Like there have been times in mylife I've gone five minutes at
a time Like for five minutes.
I don't have to pick up thisunhealthy coping mechanism.
Whatever it may be Like forfive minutes, I can wait five
minutes.
If, in five minutes, I likecan't stop thinking about it,
I'll readdress it and then, infive minutes being like, let's
(26:33):
try five more, maybe you coulddo 10.
What could you do instead?
What could you do instead for10 minutes?
Um, and then you can go back tobed, then you can space out to
Netflix, then you can dowhatever, but for 10 minutes,
what can you do for yourself?
Sarah Anne (26:50):
Oh my gosh, there's so many connections here, cause
that's how I trick my ADHD brainGo to the kitchen and do two
dishes.
Sarah Kelly (27:00):
It's genius.
Then your hands are wet, so youdo them, they're all.
So you shower and then you'relike, well, I guess I'll put on
real clean clothes instead of mypajamas, because now I'm clean,
or I'll put on clean pajamas,yes, and then it just brings you
like a little down the road,and that is ultimately how
self-love is done too.
(27:20):
Like it's not this like magicalmoment where rain, beer, rain
beer the hell was that I getmyself to a meeting today
Rainbows and butterflies andglitter come out.
It's like, oh, I set a boundaryat work.
Or oh, I took a shower when Ididn't feel like it.
(27:43):
Or like, oh, I went to therapyto address this really hard
thing.
That's the stuff that buildsself-love.
Sarah Anne (27:50):
So, hey, we hope you're not feeling hopeless, but
we also hope that, if you are,you keep this episode just kind
of like around to listen to andto remember that it won't be
forever and that there are someways to just bring a little bit
of hope into your life.
Sarah Kelly (28:11):
Five minutes at a time, minutes at a time, and if
you feel like you have no one toconnect, to connect to us.
Sarah Anne (28:18):
Yeah, just DM us.
Y'all.
We don't have that manyfollowers.
We will respond.
Okay, like.
If you don't feel like you have, community, reach out.
Okay, we welcome you to ours.
We are very happy to be, to bethat and hopefully now you are
feeling some hope.
(28:38):
If you're not, we'll put insome of our favorite instagram
followers in the comments andyou can just kind of scroll, see
what they're doing and maybeget hopeful from them.
Sarah Kelly (28:51):
Oh, I love that.
That feels like a fun challengefor us, like go find our most
hopeful people I have.
Sarah Anne (28:57):
I have a couple of people.
I have a couple of people inmind.
Sarah Kelly (29:01):
You know, yeah, amazing, until next time.
See ya soon.
I'm really excited because we kind of we took a
little break from our podcastand now we are back.
Sarah Kelly (00:05):
We are back and I love what we're coming back with
, because today we're comingback with hope.
That's the topic.
Hope, spark of light, thatthing that makes us all like, oh
yay, we got this.
That's what we want to talk.
Sarah Anne (00:23):
I'm so excited about this topic and, um, I recently
I really got the experience ofwhat it's like to live without
hope.
Um, and it was, it was hard.
Um, I've never, I've never feltlike that before, like I didn't
know what to do.
I didn't know like who to reachout to, like not having hope,
(00:47):
ooh.
Sarah Kelly (00:49):
Yeah, it's rough.
It's rough.
That darkness that can come ona personal level and a community
wide level is just so heavy,like I think of heaviness when I
think of loss of hope, likethat darkness that just like
can't breathe.
Heavy Like I think of heavinesswhen I think of loss of hope,
like that darkness that justlike can't breathe.
Um, and I was wondering if youwere going to want to talk about
(01:10):
your personal experience, andhere we are, so let's just dive
right in.
Last week or two weeks ago, Igot a call from Sarah and I
heard her voice and I was likewhat is wrong?
And I heard her voice and I waslike what is wrong?
Sarah Anne (01:25):
I didn't even have the words I, I and here let's
just be transparent.
What did I feel hopeless about?
It was the entire world, it was.
There was no part of my lifethat I could see hope in.
And I know that sounds superdefeatist now, because I have
hope again, but that was so real.
(01:46):
I didn't know what to do and Ididn't even know how to start
the conversation and I'm sograteful that you did, because
basically I just started, I wasjust crying.
I would just cry like multipletimes every day.
We'd be like talking on thephone and I would just start
crying again because I wouldremember how hopeless and
horrible the world was.
Sarah Kelly (02:08):
And it was a stark contrast because, as someone
that, for myself, struggles withdepression and anxiety, like I
can get in these tunnels andhave, like my lifetime and while
you have struggled with yourown mental health issues at
different times like you havealways had this air of lightness
(02:29):
, like it's all going to be okay, like there's always an edge of
optimism.
That's not the toxic positivityoptimism, but like, oh no,
we're going to be okay, likeit's just always there.
It's a part of your innatepersonality that I've known
since we were in our early 20s.
And to hear like this wobble inyour voice and say I'm hopeless
(02:49):
.
I was like, okay, I'm gettingin the car, like I I don't know
when, I don't know how, but I'mgonna look at my calendar and I
am getting in the car to comeget you and you did, and it was
so helpful.
Sarah Anne (03:03):
And not only did did you, but but so did um, so did
Laura, and, like the that, forme there's multiple things that
brought back my hope, and I'llget to that in a moment, but I
think that was what was sosurprising for me.
Sarah is exactly what you said.
I'm a problem solver.
I look at the world, no matterhow bad it is, and I find
(03:24):
solutions.
I find solutions that we canimplement to, like, make the
world better, even if it's justa small part.
And a couple of weeks ago I waslooking at the problems and I
couldn't find a solution and Ididn't know what to do.
There was no solution that Icould see, and that was what
really brought me into thatstate of hopelessness.
(03:45):
What?
Sarah Kelly (03:46):
did that feel like, physically and mentally, like
what happened for you?
Sarah Anne (03:53):
You.
Physically, I was just.
I felt aches in my body, I feltexhausted, but mentally I
couldn't really feel anything.
I felt overwhelmed, I felttight, I felt nothing.
(04:17):
That's the truth.
And when I did feel anything, Ifelt despair.
I just felt pain in my heartand I felt like anytime I did
feel anything, I felt like theworld was going to end and like
I've truly never felt thatbefore.
Sarah Kelly (04:34):
So yeah, it's interesting to me because when
you describe it to me it feelslike a mixture of how I
experience both anxiety anddepression.
Like for depression, I alwaysjoke and please audience.
No, I'm joking because I take mymental health very seriously,
but I always say I'd ratherdepression than anxiety, because
(04:56):
at least depression I sleep, um, whereas anxiety, like I want
to pull off my skin and to me,when I have the combination that
can bring that hopelessness,it's this despair that's like so
deep that I can, like all Iwant to do is hide in my covers
and sleep, like I just want tocheck out from the world and at
the same time I want to likescream and rip off my like.
(05:21):
I can't describe it like morethan wanting to kind of like
pull off my skin Like this, likeitchiness of, like I need to do
something, like I can't doanything, like this desperation,
um, and with the two combinedit's really challenging, um,
challenging, and even justtalking about it, like my body's
(05:41):
gotten like really tense andlike braced.
It's that feeling of brace for,like what's going to happen,
because if there's no hope,what's going to happen?
Um, like hope is what I thriveon, like light is what I thrive
on Like that optimism, that likeno matter what, like there's
good on the other side is whatgets me through.
So when that's gone it justfeels like yeah.
Sarah Anne (06:06):
And like, even Even my, like as you know, I do have
mental health struggles as welland the things that normally
bring me peace, like being outin my garden, going for walks,
seeing my, seeing my spaghettisisters For, like, a Friday
night dinner, like those thingsI just kept not having the
energy and capability to do, andlike I, just my garden is right
(06:31):
there, you know, I can see itwhen I'm working.
And like I wasn't, I wasn'teven able to like, get myself
out there and like, yeah, For methat feels really scary.
Sarah Kelly (06:44):
Does that feel scary to you, or does it feel
sad or like a little of all ofit?
Sarah Anne (06:49):
When I was in it, I felt frustrated.
I felt really frustratedbecause I was like I felt
frustrated that I didn't havethe capabilities to do some
things that I felt like mightbring me back into, bring me out
of hopelessness.
The thing is is when I was inthat state and why I wasn't
(07:12):
doing those things was because Ifelt like nothing could restore
my hope.
I was like like I had the onevoice on my shoulder being like
girl, go out into your garden,connect with your friends, blah,
blah, blah, eat some food.
And the other voice would belike but what's the point?
(07:34):
What's the point If you go outin your garden, nothing's going
to change.
What's the point?
And like, that was really whereI was and I was.
I was so proud of myself forlike, for like when you guys
offered to come and to say yes,because that felt like a big
deal.
I was like, even when I saidyes, I was like say yes, you
need to.
But I was like it's not goingto change anything, nothing's
going to change by them coming.
(07:54):
Like you're still going to beand you're just going to drag
them down.
I was like, but I said yes andI was so, so grateful for it.
Sarah Kelly (08:03):
For the record, I was coming with it.
You said yes or no, Like Idon't know what's happening or
why it's happening, but I'mgoing to New York, that's just
what's happening.
It'll been like, well, what'shappening with Sarah?
I don't know, I'm just going toNew York.
(08:29):
I'm going to New York and Ithink, like you know, I think
this is such an importantconversation because I believe
that everyone experiences thisfeeling at some point in their
life.
Like some experience it often,some experience it very rarely,
but I feel like it's a universalfeeling that can happen and it
lends ears to why community isso important, Like why having
(08:51):
the people that know you so wellis so important and going with,
like how do we build that?
Because you know a friendshipof over 20 years like I can hear
in your voice.
But like what happens whenthat's not nearby or accessible?
And that's what I really lookat.
Like Ooh, we all have a hand inthis, whether it's like a
(09:13):
person down the street or yourbestie, Right, yeah.
Sarah Anne (09:18):
Yeah, and I think that's such a great reminder.
That you just said is likeeverybody at some point will
likely feel hopelessness, willlikely feel sadder than they
ever thought possible numberthan they ever thought possible
like and it's a reality.
Sarah Kelly (09:38):
We need to be talking about right Like,
because, especially those of uswho are eternally optimistic,
like I, was on a call this weekand I was like I'm hopeless
romantic, love will be there.
Love will be there, it's coming.
And so when so many people seethat as the outside version of
ourselves, um, I like theoutside version to be real too.
(10:00):
I'm like, oh yeah, sometimes itgets really dark over here.
Sarah Anne (10:05):
What do you do when you're in because you have so
many more tools for better orfor worse?
Sarah Kelly (10:14):
Yeah, I got.
I joked with my therapist thisweek.
I was like it turns out, 40years of therapy gives you like
a lot of tools and skills Like Iget to see them in real time
now, which is pretty amazing,you know.
It brings me back.
My first ever dark depressionwas medication induced, actually
(10:35):
by a migraine medication, and Ithink I would have struggled
with depression at some pointanyway, given trauma.
But I can see this so clearly.
I was like in sixth grade and Iwas playing some Madonna song
over and over.
I wish I could remember what itwas on the top of my head.
I'll have to find it and writeit at the bottom on a CD player.
Might've even been a tape, itmight've been a tape, sixth
(10:57):
grade could be.
It was like the changeover ofCDs and tapes and just feeling
like what's the point?
And my depression has alwaysgotten me to places of what's
the point?
Um, and feelings like I justwant this all to end, but never
a feeling.
I've never had um ideation tounalive myself, which I'm really
(11:21):
, really grateful for.
I'm really grateful for itbecause I think that combination
that can come in.
I just like have so muchrespect for the people that
fight through that.
For me, hope has always lookedlike well, it's looked different
over the years, so that was thefirst time I felt it.
Now, sometimes I feel like it'sautomatic response, like this
(11:42):
is what's happening.
So this is what I need to do,whether I want to or have the
energy to like, I often givemyself a time period to feel
feelings and then I have to dothe actionable steps, no matter
what like, just it is what hasto be done.
I have to go outside and breathefresh air.
I have to let my circle aroundme, my closest internal little
(12:04):
circle, know what's happening.
Immediately.
I call in my whole support team, I call in my therapist, my
sponsorship family, my friends,my family family, and let them
know and then do the things.
And I think that's also why,hearing your voice, I think that
(12:29):
bringing the people in is themost important step to get you
going, because they're thepeople that are like oh no,
we're going to go eat right now,we're going to go outside right
now, like, or you can just cryand I'm just going to sit here,
but it's that witness of what'shappening, because it's so
isolating and it feels, or atleast to me.
I want to really make clear myfeelings because I know it
(12:51):
happens differently for everyone.
I feel so disconnected from theworld.
Hopelessness to me isdisconnection.
It's disconnection to good, um.
It's disconnection toactionable.
It's disconnection to likesomething, um, joyful is going
(13:12):
to happen, and so the peoplethat are closest to me that can
like mirror back well, actuallyyou have a lot of connection,
like actually you've had a lotof joy and we're just going to
sit here while you don't.
And what do you need?
Yeah, I wouldn't have knownthat answer.
I would say connection is thenumber one thing to get me out,
and the hardest thing to do, thehardest thing to do when in
(13:35):
that state, is to connect withsomeone else, to connect with
someone else.
Sarah Anne (13:39):
Yeah, yeah, it was, I was, so I'm so lucky that, um,
that I had to talk to you,right?
I mean, we, we work together,so it wasn't an option to to not
and um, and I'm I'm verygrateful for that, yeah.
Sarah Kelly (13:56):
It's that built in daily connection, like we
connect on a daily basis, right?
So I think, in starting tothink of like building a toolkit
for anyone that's listening,it's like well, my brain goes to
solution too, right, if you'relike well, I don't have that
Like, how do you start buildingthat Like, how do you start
getting those relationshipswhere that person will hear the
voice Like or what happens there?
(14:17):
Or the scariest thing ever ofsaying like something's not
right and I, like I just need totell you.
I usually don't ask for help.
I usually say like I just needyou to know what's going on.
That's my way of saying like Imight need help and as long as I
know you're like right there,then I can, I can reach it, and
(14:38):
it's almost like knowing thathelps.
There is enough for me to nextstep.
What sparked your?
Sarah Anne (14:47):
hope.
Well, there is the in, theinward and the outward.
So the inward was theconnection.
Like the inward was y'all Ifyou, if, if we put up the video
of this, you're just going tosee him like crying this whole
episode.
So enjoy, that's normal for anyepisode with us as regular
listeners now.
(15:11):
But I think the biggest thingthat really got me through was
the connection, was seeing myfriends drop everything and
driving and being there for meand holding space and like that
I think was the most healingthing.
But then the outward worldshifted right.
I mean, for me that I think wasthe biggest thing because,
(15:35):
frankly, if you and Laura hadcome but nothing had changed, my
hope probably would have beenmuch longer to rekindle.
I would have felt support, Ihopefully would have gotten out
of that deep, deep hopelessness.
But my hope would have been alot more fractured than it is
now and a lot harder to sustain.
(15:56):
But, frankly, the biggest thingthat rekindled my hope was
Harris getting in the race, wasBiden taking a step back and
seeing maybe Project 2025 won'tbe a reality.
That, coupled with my communityand seeing how strong my
community was, made me realizethat my community is strong.
(16:17):
We are strong, but my communityis not unique.
The people that make it upreally are people that can
change the world, and now wehave an opportunity to.
And now I feel things won't beperfect if Harris is president
Of course not, it won't be rightbecause we have to change so
much.
But now I see hope and now Isee a way forward, and I truly
(16:43):
didn't before.
Sarah Kelly (16:45):
And I think, just like we need to address our
internal or like I guess it'snot necessarily internal, but
our our little life hopelessnessversus like world hopelessness,
like and the reality of I thinka couple of weeks ago is, when
you were crying, I was like yeah, yeah, yeah, it's scary, it's
(17:06):
scary, it's scary.
I don't know how I'm coping somedays or I'm not coping some
days, like so much is happeningworldwide that feels hopeless,
that just feels like what in thehumanity is going on, that just
(17:27):
feels like what in the humanityis going on.
And to be bombarded daily withwhat in the humanity is going on
by visual audio, all of thiswith our senses, in a way that
has never been exposed before,is just a lot for the human
experience.
It's a lot for the humanexperience and that's coming
(17:47):
from an extremely privilegedplace, like about as privileged
as you can get, and it's a lot.
And so I think the communitylevel of that we also saw like a
deep breath happen, like atleast in our little spheres a
couple of weeks ago, of likeokay, we're not alone in this,
(18:11):
like there are other people,there are other warriors, there
are other like truth seekers,there are other, all of these
people that have a layer ofeternal optimism for humanity
for humanity.
Sarah Anne (18:31):
Yeah, that is it.
And after, first of all, harrisrunning for president was what
restored my hope.
But I want to get Biden hisdues.
Biden stepping down gave mehope right.
An old, established white dudetaking a step away from power
for the betterment of thecountry did so much to restore
my hope.
And then, in addition to that,seeing the you know the hope
(18:53):
scrolling, you know, like thatweekend of like, once Biden made
the announcement, harrisstepped up and just all of the
beautiful content that wasuplifting again, that was
inspiring again, that was nottalking about hate but talking
about that connection and thatlove.
I cannot tell you the last timethat scrolling through social
media was healthy for me, butthese last couple of weeks it
(19:15):
has been Between Harris and thenall of the amazing, powerful
women and all of the athletes atthe Olympics seeing their
camaraderie across country linesand all of that these past
couple of weeks have done somuch to restore my hope and so
(19:39):
much realness and mental health.
Sarah Kelly (19:40):
Like I think that's like, oh, we're going to
address the actual realitythat's happening and we're going
to sprinkle joy on top.
Like that, to me, is what Ithink lifts me up, is like
there's a picture of HarrisonWalls just beaming and I was
like it's joy.
Like to me, that's what hope isHope equals joy.
(20:02):
Like it's that, no matter whatlife is going to be hard,
there's going to be trauma.
There's going to be people thatare unkind and cruel I'm not
going to say unkind, cruel andhave issues and I'm still going
to show up with joy.
Like that's to me the ultimatefighting tool.
Sarah Anne (20:33):
Like that's to me, the ultimate fighting tool is
feel the feelings, face reality,show up with joy and then take
action to bring that joy toothers.
Yeah, yes, the take action partis so important.
Yeah, and and and again.
Like going back now I feel likeI can take action.
Sarah Kelly (20:57):
Now I'm inspired again, right, it's like now I
feel like I can take action.
Now I'm inspired again.
It's like now I have energy.
I feel so strong now and it'sjust amazing what a couple of
weeks can do.
Yeah, the collective of hopemakers, peacemakers, joy makers
that are like no, this is goingto be hard, but we're going to.
We're not letting hate comeover us, we're not letting fear
win, we're not letting bulliescome in and like take over, um,
(21:23):
and that can be so trueinternally, when you're in that
moment of like, hey, you knowwhat negative voice who feels
like there's nothing in the lake, it's not worth it, like, let's
just quiet down a little.
I'm just going to give you,we're going to sprinkle a little
love and joy and say like heard, and no, not today.
(21:43):
Today I'm going to get up, butin that hopeless state it's so
hard, it's so hard.
Sarah Anne (21:52):
It's so hard.
Yeah, the collective really gotme out of it, though you know
like community and the communityI know, but then community, I
don't know.
You know both like helped me toget out of it, so maybe that's,
maybe that's a place to start.
If you're looking for communityand don't have it yet in your
real life, are there somecontent creators that you want
(22:16):
to follow that bring you joywhen you see them Start there?
I know, right, we always lookdown on social media, but it is
a tool that we can use if we useit selectively, I think it goes
back to what we always say isthe irony of self-love is that
it happens in community.
Sarah Kelly (22:33):
Like you know, all of the self-love first and stuff
happens in community.
It is through community that welearn to love ourselves.
It is in community that we areable to, like, step into the
hope.
Sarah Anne (22:47):
That's so true, and you know I feel like we talk
about this a lot.
It's okay If you're doingaction at first, not for you,
right?
If you need to like,externalize it and and um, do it
for someone else or do it foryour future or whatever, that's
okay.
You know that doing it foryourself will come when you're
(23:07):
on the path.
Sarah Kelly (23:10):
You know, and I also think, like thinking of
community past, just people too,like I know, people whose dogs
have saved their lives, like inactive addiction, like taking a
dog for a walk or feeding it waswhat like kept them alive, like
kept that hope.
And so I think like justfinding those small ways too,
which isn't small your family,your furry friend and family
(23:34):
member, but it's not alwayshuman connection.
So I just want to say that outloud too.
I feel like that's reallyimportant to voice.
Sarah Anne (23:42):
Thank you for voicing that, because Smokey the
cat was instrumental inbringing back my hope.
Yeah, girlfriend, even thoughit was like 90 degrees would be
like on my stomach, cuddling andjust purring and like, yeah,
just giving so much love.
So I, and if you're in a spotwhere you can't have an animal
companion, volunteer, volunteerat an animal shelter and, like I
(24:05):
know, right earlier I said Icouldn't even go out into the
garden.
So I want to say lots to you.
If you heard this and you'relike, yes, I'm hopeless, I'm
going to go to the animalshelter, okay, I understand that
I wouldn't have been able to dothat.
Sarah Kelly (24:17):
Okay, I was going to bring it down to a notch.
So just go visit the animalshelter and pet a dog or a cat.
That's better.
If you can volunteer, you'relike gold stars on your way to
like.
Oh, If all you can do is stop aneighbor walking by with a dog
to say hi to the dog, that workstoo, maybe start there, my
(24:42):
eternally optimistic Sarah isback.
She is back Well, and laughing.
That's such an importantreminder is we don't actually go
anywhere.
Like if you're listening tothis and feeling hopeless, like
you're in there, your spark isstill there, you just can't see
(25:03):
it, and I think that is.
You know, these points ofreminders to like, oh, this
isn't forever, this is today.
Like this isn't forever, thisis for the next hour, this isn't
forever.
Like, however small, you needto break it down, cause that
would be the other thing thatI've done.
To like, help my brain.
(25:24):
It's like you know what, forthe next 10 minutes, I'm going
to be okay.
The next 10 minutes, I'm goingto shelve this thought and just
go take a shower, or if I makesome toast, it's not going to
change anything, but I am goingto be fed and that will make me
feel better about the world,maybe.
Or I'll just go back to sleep,like just little tricks.
Sarah Anne (25:47):
Okay, I love that Because that's something I
couldn't do.
Like when I was in that state,I actually felt like change
wasn't possible.
I was like I don't see howthings can change and I wasn't
looking small enough, I wasmaking change, I was.
And that, breaking it down into10-minute increments, man,
(26:08):
sarah, that is a tool, that's areally good tool.
Sarah Kelly (26:12):
Wow, way less than one day at a time.
Like there have been times in mylife I've gone five minutes at
a time Like for five minutes.
I don't have to pick up thisunhealthy coping mechanism.
Whatever it may be Like forfive minutes, I can wait five
minutes.
If, in five minutes, I likecan't stop thinking about it,
I'll readdress it and then, infive minutes being like, let's
(26:33):
try five more, maybe you coulddo 10.
What could you do instead?
What could you do instead for10 minutes?
Um, and then you can go back tobed, then you can space out to
Netflix, then you can dowhatever, but for 10 minutes,
what can you do for yourself?
Sarah Anne (26:50):
Oh my gosh, there's so many connections here, cause
that's how I trick my ADHD brainGo to the kitchen and do two
dishes.
Sarah Kelly (27:00):
It's genius.
Then your hands are wet, so youdo them, they're all.
So you shower and then you'relike, well, I guess I'll put on
real clean clothes instead of mypajamas, because now I'm clean,
or I'll put on clean pajamas,yes, and then it just brings you
like a little down the road,and that is ultimately how
self-love is done too.
(27:20):
Like it's not this like magicalmoment where rain, beer, rain
beer the hell was that I getmyself to a meeting today
Rainbows and butterflies andglitter come out.
It's like, oh, I set a boundaryat work.
Or oh, I took a shower when Ididn't feel like it.
(27:43):
Or like, oh, I went to therapyto address this really hard
thing.
That's the stuff that buildsself-love.
Sarah Anne (27:50):
So, hey, we hope you're not feeling hopeless, but
we also hope that, if you are,you keep this episode just kind
of like around to listen to andto remember that it won't be
forever and that there are someways to just bring a little bit
of hope into your life.
Sarah Kelly (28:11):
Five minutes at a time, minutes at a time, and if
you feel like you have no one toconnect, to connect to us.
Sarah Anne (28:18):
Yeah, just DM us.
Y'all.
We don't have that manyfollowers.
We will respond.
Okay, like.
If you don't feel like you have, community, reach out.
Okay, we welcome you to ours.
We are very happy to be, to bethat and hopefully now you are
feeling some hope.
(28:38):
If you're not, we'll put insome of our favorite instagram
followers in the comments andyou can just kind of scroll, see
what they're doing and maybeget hopeful from them.
Sarah Kelly (28:51):
Oh, I love that.
That feels like a fun challengefor us, like go find our most
hopeful people I have.
Sarah Anne (28:57):
I have a couple of people.
I have a couple of people inmind.
Sarah Kelly (29:01):
You know, yeah, amazing, until next time.
See ya soon.
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Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club
Welcome to Bookmarked by Reese’s Book Club — the podcast where great stories, bold women, and irresistible conversations collide! Hosted by award-winning journalist Danielle Robay, each week new episodes balance thoughtful literary insight with the fervor of buzzy book trends, pop culture and more. Bookmarked brings together celebrities, tastemakers, influencers and authors from Reese's Book Club and beyond to share stories that transcend the page. Pull up a chair. You’re not just listening — you’re part of the conversation.