April 1, 2024 • 53 mins
Personalizing the pyramid of needs...
This week, we're thrilled to have Melissa Storm join us on the Author Wheel Podcast to talk about writing craft, authorpreneurship, being a hybrid author, crossing genre lines, writing under pennames, mental health, wellness, and more. It's an absolutely fabulous interview packed with actionable advice for writers across all levels.
New York Times and USA Today bestselling author Melissa Storm is happiest with a book in her hands and a pet on her lap. She writes in a number of genres including Women’s Fiction and Psych Thrillers. Melissa lives with her family in the heart of Alaska.
Follow Us!
Melissa Storm / Molly Fitz
Fiction Website: https://www.melstorm.com/
Business Website: https://www.novelpublicity.com/
Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/authorads
The Author Wheel:
Website: www.AuthorWheel.com
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/AuthorWheel
Greta Boris:
Website: www.GretaBoris.com
Facebook: @GretaBorisAuthor
Instagram: @GretaBoris
Megan Haskell:
Website: www.MeganHaskell.com
Facebook & Instagram: @MeganHaskellAuthor
TikTok: @AuthorMeganHaskell
The Last Descendant Special Edition Kickstarter Campaign
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/meganhaskell/lastdescendant
*****
⭐️ SUPPORT THE SHOW ⭐️
If you're enjoying The Author Wheel Podcast, please consider supporting the show by clicking the link below! Your contribution helps us cover the ongoing expenses—like hosting and editing—that are critical to the creation of this podcast.
FREE Mini Email Course
Have you ever struggled to explain to others exactly what you write? Or wondered which of the many fiction ideas running through your brain you should tackle? If so, The Author Wheel’s new mini-course might be your solution.
7 Days to Clarity: Uncover Your Author Purpose will help you uncover your core writing motivations, avoid shiny-thing syndrome, and create clear marketing language.
Each daily email will lead you step by step in defining your author brand, crafting a mission statement, and distilling that statement into a pithy tagline. And, best of all, it’s free.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi everyone, Welcome to the Author Wheel podcast.
I'm Greta Boris, USA Todaybestselling mystery thriller
author.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
And I'm Megan Haskell , award-winning fantasy
adventure author.
Together we are the AuthorWheel.
We have a fantasticconversation with multi-genre
author Melissa Storm for youthis week, where we talk about
everything from writing undermultiple pen names, being a
hybrid author by self-publishingand having contracts with
traditional publishers, and evenmental health and wellness.
(00:28):
But before we get into that,how are you doing this week,
greta?
Speaker 1 (00:32):
Well, it's been a busy one, which is normal, I
guess.
Busy but good, I'm coming downto the end of the rewrite of the
third book in what was theSeven Deadlies, soon to be
called an almost true crimeseries, and I'm hoping to turn
that one in this week.
I feel like, as I'm going, I'mstarting to get kind of a flow
(00:55):
or rhythm to this process, and Ido think the third book was I
knew it was going to be thetoughest and it did take me
quite some time was what I knewit was going to be the toughest
and it did take me quite sometime.
So I'll be really happy to turnthat one in and get started on
the fourth book.
Nice, yeah, so also.
So this week, probably the mostinteresting thing that I did was
(01:18):
an experiment with my authorfriend, pamela Fagan Hutchins.
We interviewed her on October9th 2023, season four, episode
five, if you want to refreshyourself on who she is and what
she does.
Anyway, I did a takeover of herFacebook author group and I'm
(01:39):
not sure it did tons for my list, but it did teach me a couple
of things about being present onsocial media and what kind of
things people responded to andwhat kind of things they didn't
respond to.
I think my biggest takeaway wasthat it is pretty time
consuming for the directbenefits, like sometimes I
(02:02):
compare social media for authorsto like wearing your underwear,
make no, nobody.
Maybe people don't know it'sthere, but it's kind of best
that you don't not wear them.
You know, it's just one ofthose things you know.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
That's an interesting analogy.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
Yeah For social media .
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Wearing your underwear to your social media.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
People might not recognize it, but do you really
want to go without it?
Speaker 3 (02:33):
Yeah, yeah, anyway.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
So, but it's hard to quantify the results right.
It's not like advertising,where you can go.
This is how many clicks I gotand this is how much the clicks
cost me and this is how theclicks related to my sales and
you know, was it worth it or notworth it?
Financially it's not, there's.
It's.
It's much more loosey goosey, alot more subjective and that
(03:00):
kind of thing.
So I'm she's having a big booklaunch Facebook party on Easter
and I'm kind of a part of that.
I mean, I don't think I'llactually be there, but I'm
scheduling posts and and I'mgiving away books to her people.
So we'll see how that goes aswell.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
Yeah, Anyway, yeah, I was talking with one of my
coaching clients this week aboutsocial media.
She asked you know she's?
She's about to launch her debutnovel and she was kind of
questioning like she's notcurrently very active on social
media, so does she need to startup her accounts and stuff?
And my general thought is thatit's kind of, unless you already
(03:37):
enjoy it and already enjoyedthat kind of content creation,
it can be a time sink withoutdirect measurement.
So it does seem to be kind oflike a it's good to have it, but
I don't know Like we need toget a social media person on
here.
I guess is really where I'mgoing with this, because I have
lots of questions.
(03:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
I do too.
Like because I look at somepeople who I think are doing it
well and it does seem to benefitthem.
Yeah, like I do think PamelaFagan Hutchins does it well and
she has a big group she callsthe posse and they're in there
and they're active, and I thinkthat was part of it is like they
(04:19):
were like who is this GretaBoris person?
We're here for Pamela.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
We're not here for Greta, you know.
So I think maybe that's why thetakeover wasn't super
successful.
But then you look at an authorwho I would love to have on
sometime, brenda Novak, and shehas like a book club, a Facebook
book club, and every month shedoes baskets and every month
they feature a different author.
Sometimes it's her andsometimes it's author friends
(04:46):
and you know, it's looks likeit's probably really a big part
of her business.
Yeah, but she has her daughterruns it for her, because it's
very time consuming.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
Yeah, in a lot of ways it's like another business,
it's a.
I mean there are people whomake their business as social
media influencers and contentcreators.
So for an author to add that onagain, unless you already love
it, if you do, great, keep it up, you know.
But if you don't.
I can see, I don't know.
(05:20):
For me it's very tough anyway.
Yeah, but yeah, I think weshould get social media people
on here.
We'll work on that.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
Yes.
So what are you doing this week?
I know it's a busy one.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
It definitely, definitely is.
So, first off, I got Invisaligninstalled on my teeth yesterday
.
So if I'm lisping a little, I'mtrying really hard not to.
Hopefully it's not too bad ortoo much and hopefully I'll get
over it quickly.
For, you know, podcasting mytongue will figure out how to
(05:51):
deal with these things on myteeth, but also I think it
forces me to talk just a littlebit slower, which might not be a
bad thing.
So, you know, we'll see,hopefully, hopefully it's all
it's not too bad, and you allcan, you know, send us an email
if you're going.
Oh my God, megan, take thosethings off your teeth when
(06:11):
you're podcasting and I will.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
I barely can tell oh, that's good, that's good, I'm
very conscious of it.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
But in any case and then in other news I do have I
have this kind of super secretnew opportunity that's been
building in the background andtaking up some of my time this
week and we're not talking aboutit yet.
So I'm teasing it here, I'mleaving y'all on a cliffhanger,
but there will be news comingout about that in the next few
(06:40):
months, coming out about that inthe next few months.
But that's been.
It's been really really good.
But it's also been, you know, alittle bit of extra work and on
my regular schedule.
And then in the meantime I'mmaking my final preparations for
WonderCon as we record this.
(07:00):
So there's so many tasks Ialways forget how many things I
have to do to set up forespecially a big event like
WonderCon.
And once I get it set up it'llbe pretty much good for the rest
of the year.
But I've got to get ebookdownload cards made.
I've got to set up my emailsubscription and autoresponders,
(07:21):
making sure everything isflowing the way it's supposed to
for new readers that are cominginto the system.
Got to double check myinventory box everything up, get
it all ready, make sure myregister is set up on my phone
properly print out the pricingsheets.
So much stuff.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
That would be another interesting podcast episode.
Maybe I should interview you onhow to do live in-person events
like WonderCon, because thereare probably listeners out there
who say, you know, maybethey're not going to do
something as big as WonderCon,but they are going to go to some
boutique or some place sellbooks and you know.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
Yeah, and I do a lot of those throughout the year.
Now, I mean, last year I thinkI did four or five book selling
events and I think this yearI've got another four or five,
um, and a few big ones.
So, yeah, we should do that.
We should do that.
In fact, we might need to splitit up in a couple different
episodes.
We'll have to think about thatand talk offline, because
there's the prep work and setup,but then there's also how to
(08:21):
sell and make events successful.
So I think those are twodifferent, potentially two
different episodes, but we'llchat more and we'll let you know
what happens with that.
Before we move on, I just wantto take a quick moment to remind
you to please subscribe to thepodcast, post a review if you
love it and then share yourfavorite episode with a writer
(08:42):
friend.
The more you share, the betteroff we all are and can learn
together.
Now on to the episode withMelissa Storm.
Today we are thrilled,absolutely thrilled, to have
Melissa Storm on the show.
Melissa is the New York Timesand USA Today bestselling author
(09:03):
, who is happiest with a book inher hands and a pet in her lap.
She writes in a number ofgenres, including women's
fiction and psych thrillers.
Melissa lives with her familyin the heart of Alaska.
So welcome, melissa.
We are so excited to have youon the show.
This is gonna be a fabulousconversation, I can already tell
.
Speaker 3 (09:21):
Hello, hello, happy to be here with you both.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
I can already tell Hello, hello, happy to be here
with you both.
Yeah, we've already had a fullconversation before we even hit
record, so this is going to be afun one.
You all listeners, you are infor a treat.
Melissa, is that bio justdoesn't quite do her justice?
Speaker 2 (09:39):
It really doesn't.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
So multifaceted and so successful in so many
different areas, and you know sohopefully we'll just get a
chance to touch on at least afew of them.
So we're going to start withthe question we ask everybody,
and that is can you tell us alittle bit about your journey
(10:01):
into writing and publishing,like what got you bit by the bug
and how'd you get started?
Speaker 3 (10:08):
Oh, my goodness.
I think my first author bioback in the day said I was born
with a fountain pen clutchedfirmly in my left hand and I've
gotten away from purple prosesince then, so it's no longer in
my bio.
But when I was young I actuallywanted to be a cartoonist for
Disney and I used to win a lotof art contests and always
(10:30):
drawing, and then I would writestories to go with my drawings
and then at some point Iswitched away from drawing and
got more and more into writing.
I wrote my first book in 2010.
I published for the first timein 2011.
And I was trying to go thetraditional route because this
(10:51):
was kind of before indiepublishing was mainstream, and I
was trying to find a literaryagent for that first novel.
And I got online Twitter and ablog, because that was what you
did.
The Twitterverse, yes it was.
I was going to build an authorplatform because they all said
you need an author platform.
But I wasn't an author yetbecause I hadn't published yet.
(11:11):
You know in my mind.
So my blog and Twitter justtook off and within a week,
everybody was calling me asocial media expert.
So I was like, well, this isinteresting, this fits.
And I was like, maybe I'llwrite an ebook about marketing.
And then instead I made abusiness Novel Publicity.
So that launched the same yearas my first book and was just
(11:34):
immediately super successful andhas continued to be successful
to present day.
So it took me a while to thebusiness, was so needy.
For a long time I said it wasmy wife and writing is my
mistress and I can't quit eitherbecause I love them both.
But I always felt guilty aboutspending time with my mistress
when the wife needed me, thewife being the business and the
(11:56):
mistress being the writing.
So around 2016, 17, I finallydecided that I was going to
treat myself the way I treatedmy clients and I made a rule I
do it for them, I do it for me,and that's when my writing
started to take off.
So I started making more timeand learning to delegate, which
(12:16):
is one of the hardest but mostrewarding things I've ever done
in my life, and now I'm able tosplit time between the two,
although I will say so far for2024,.
The wife is really on me.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
She's being very demanding, she's so demanding.
Speaker 3 (12:33):
She is such a long list and it keeps getting added
to.
But I just, you know, I havethese two halves of my business
and creative soul and I reallyneed both to be fulfilled.
So I'm, you know, puttingsystems in place so that I can
get back to having both in mylife again.
So, oh, that's nice.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
Yeah, that's something that Greta and I have
talked about in the past, bothin interviews or online and also
just privately, Because I thinkwe both have that same drive
where, for me, like, writing ismy creative outlet and then the
author wheel is my my businessoutlet, because I actually have
an undergraduate business degreeand so I've always needed both
(13:13):
sides of those.
But finding the balance can beso, so hard, Because I think,
when, when you can focus on justone, it's like okay, well,
that's the thing that you do.
But when you have two very, youknow, related but very
different elements of yourpersonality that you're
expressing through differentactivities, like it can be hard
(13:36):
to like set those priorities andthat balance.
So how do you, or what systemshave you put in place to help
find that balance?
I mean, I know you said you'restruggling with the wife right
now, but how are you gettingback into that, that that
satisfying self and that joy?
Speaker 3 (13:53):
So I put balance right up there with delegation
is one of the most rewarding anddifficult things I've ever
worked on.
Last year, 2023, was a big yearof mental health for me.
So really learning to get offthe clock and put work away and
have leisure and have time withfamily and making sure I'm
(14:14):
hitting all these areas of lifeand as you add more and more
pieces in, it's harder tocomplete the puzzle.
So I wanted to make sure myrelationship, my family, my
business, my writing, my healthall taken care of, and it's nigh
impossible to do all at anygiven time.
So I kind of think of Maslow'shierarchy of needs, but I have a
(14:40):
what's a non-square wordversion of the word.
I want to use A doggy-izedversion of the pyramid.
So messed up I have at thebottom of the pyramid.
The business needs to be stableand good, because I'm dealing
with a lot of money on behalf ofmy clients and I have a staff
(15:02):
that I provide a living for.
So if something's wrong there,nothing else is taken care of,
nothing else can happen.
So if that base is solid, thenI'm allowed to sleep.
I thought sleep was the bottomof the pyramid.
My husband's like no, becausewhen there's a work problem, you
wake up at 1am and startworking until you can't anymore,
and I'm like that's true, sosleep, getting eight hours
(15:26):
regularly, really more like ninehours.
I'm needy in that way.
If I'm if the business, good andI'm getting the nine hours,
then I have time for leisure.
That's usually the first thingthat goes if I'm overwhelmed.
If I'm doing well, though, Ihave time to read every day.
I play video games every day.
It's really important for me.
When I'm sleeping, leisurebusiness is good, then I can be
(15:48):
creative and write, but if anyof that stuff is not fulfilled,
I don't even try to write.
I give myself the grace becauseit's not going to happen.
When I'm regularly writing andthis is kind of a cop out when
I'm regularly writing andeverything's good, then I can
focus on my health and use thehome gym that I built and spent
$10,000 on and haven't used once.
Oh my goodness.
(16:10):
I'm like if I'm not writing,there's that's something I want
to do.
There's no way I'm going to goget on the Peloton or use the
tonal.
There's no way I'm going toforce myself to do that if I'm
not writing.
So I kind of have that pyramid,and the health stuff is kind of
a star at the top because it'salso a Christmas tree, which is
the triangle too.
So I don't know if I answeredthe question, but there is my
(16:33):
thing.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
So it's not necessarily about balance, but
it's making sure that I have afirm base to move up the pyramid
.
Actually, I think that's reallya great way to look at it,
because it's true, I think if,unless you're a person who's
very compartmentalized which Idon't think is particularly
healthy it is really hard, likeif your health or your family
relationships or your businessor whatever is falling apart,
how on earth does anybody stopand expect themselves to come up
(17:06):
with an adorable cat detectivestory?
You know that just wouldn'thappen for me.
I can tell you that.
Speaker 3 (17:13):
It's all got slot in the police yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
Yeah, and I think it's interesting.
I would say that I mean thathaving that priority sort of set
in your mind that makes iteasier to like say, okay, what
do I need to focus on today?
Because if you've got a problemin your business, obviously
that's gonna take that priority.
You already know that becauseyou have it laid out in this
pyramid.
But what I find interesting isactually that's a very flexible
(17:37):
system for for everybody.
I mean, I I probably have neverframed it that way, but could
and but, my, my tears are goingto be a little bit different
than yours are, cause I don'thave a business that pays other
people's salary.
So that's not my bottom,because it's just me.
(17:58):
So my bottom is the sleep um,because if I don't get sleep I
can't function.
Um, for my family, uh, you knowI've got two kids and stuff, so
so I, I like that, that, thatsystem, and kind of framing it
that way in the hierarchy ofneeds, but then shifting it for
each person individually, basedon where they're at in their
(18:19):
life and their you know, currentsystem.
Speaker 3 (18:22):
I want to build and live in the great pyramids of
Giza.
I don't want to be playingJenga, yeah.
So I know that if I'm missinglevel two, sleep.
No other levels need to try tobe built because they're not
going to stay put.
No other levels need to try tobe built because they're not
going to stay put.
Yeah, they need that.
(18:44):
So I don't even try.
And that was a huge thing.
I have obsessive compulsivedisorder and anxiety and I would
get so burnt out and stressedout of why am I not writing?
And I would just shame myselfand beat myself up because I'm
not writing.
But now I know oh, theconditions, you know the weather
conditions.
There's no writing, warning orwatch today.
It's not happening.
So thinking of it like apyramid and that each level has
(19:09):
to be stacked to go to the nextlevel has allowed me to just say
the business is really needy.
Right now Writing's not goingto happen, but if I do a really
good job and build these systemsin place, writing will happen
later.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:21):
Like.
It's frustrating anddisappointing because at this
point it's been a couple ofmonths, which is great.
My business is growing reallygreat and I'm enjoying it so
much and we're helping a lot ofpeople, but I miss writing a lot
.
Yeah, so tomorrow I've clearedthe deck, the pyramid is built
and I'm going to write tomorrow,provided, you know, a storm
(19:42):
doesn't come in.
I love mixing metaphors just tokeep you on your toes.
Yeah, so we're ready for that.
But yeah, I'm not botheringmyself about exercising until
I'm writing regularly, at whichpoint I'm going to have to have
a kind of a wake-up call and belike oh, my excuse is gone and
(20:04):
figure that out.
That'll be good for me, yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
My pyramid doesn't work if I'm not exercising.
So we need to just get togetherand inspire each other, because
I will put business aside anyold day to exercise, because
exercise used to be my business,so it's like ingrained in my
brain.
But I do think that thispyramid idea is just brilliant.
And how else can you accomplishall the things that you're
(20:28):
accomplishing?
Just as a quick little aside,because I really want to talk
more about you because you're sointeresting, but why don't you
just tell everybody what NovelPublicity is and does, just
because everybody's probablygoing well, what is her business
?
Speaker 3 (20:42):
Yeah, novel Publicity is my flagship business that I
started in February 2011,.
When everybody started callingme a social media expert and I
was like I got to do somethingwith this.
Back then I used to work 15, 16hours a day.
Probably five years straight Iworked 15, 16 hours a day, so I
did not have balance for areally long time.
The pyramid is relatively new,but I decided I was going to do
(21:06):
this, so I went deep and Ilearned website coding and
business and everything and itwas immediately successful.
That was back in the day whenall of this was really new, and
one of our flagship servicesthat we got really well known
for was blog tours.
We haven't offered that servicefor years.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
So a big part of novel publicity is staying on
top of what's working forauthors now and doing those
things.
So it's not just doing itbecause we know it's a good
thing, but also that we have theskills to offer it to the level
of excellence I want.
Right now we're dealing witheverybody wants us to do TikTok
ads, but I don't know enoughabout it yet to be confident and
(21:49):
I want to make sure that youknow we knock it out of the park
when we do that.
So that's in development.
That's a little spoiler.
First you hear it is here onthe author wheel and when I feel
really confident that we'regoing to do an amazing job with
it, it will be available.
But we've just constantlychanged what we offer based on
(22:10):
what's working and what my teamcan master, and right now we
have five departments Facebookads, amazon ads marketing,
international marketing, reallybig focus on translations and
other languages and direct salesdevelopment.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
Wow, wow, that's great.
Yeah, I just was talking tosomebody who is working with
somebody in your department onFacebook ads and she's thrilled
with how it's going for her.
She just loves it.
So, yeah, that is, and howneeded.
No wonder that business tookoff, because we've just had this
conversation with somebody whowe interviewed, who will be on
(22:47):
the podcast soon, about herbiggest challenge is marketing,
and that is so true for so many,for so many authors.
Speaker 3 (22:54):
Yeah, and not everything works for everybody.
Like I, have a certain degreeof knowledge and competency in
all the departments as the CEO,but I'm not running Amazon ads.
I do not like them.
They do not jive with me.
I love running Facebook ads.
I'm really good at it.
Amazon ads I can do, but I hateand I want to do things I love,
(23:17):
because then I get the bestresults.
Direct sales same things.
I used to be a web developer.
I love building websites.
I really do not enjoy directsales at all, but I have someone
on my team who does.
So we play to our strengths,interests, abilities and for all
of my teams we've done theCliftonStrengths and coaching
(23:37):
Rebecca Stein, so that we'rereally well attuned to the
fields we are working inspecifically and that we can
make sure the clients get thebest experience because they
have the best person for Amazonads communicating with the best
person for Facebook ads andwe're all kind of in the right
place.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
That's great, that's so important and we're all kind
of in the right place.
That's great, that's soimportant.
And I'm just going to put in alittle plug for women here,
because most of the time I thinkwomen are way better at that
than men is dialing in who'sgood at what and getting the
egos out of the way and lettingeverybody shine in their own
little corner.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
The difference between the hero's journey and
the heroine's journey is reallywhat that comes down to.
Are you by yourself defeatingthe dragon because you're the
only person, the chosen one,that can do it, or are you
finding the team who can all endup with the win-win outcome in
the end?
Speaker 3 (24:29):
We're thinking a fully maxed balance party into
the dungeon, my friend.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
Which is funny, because when I play games,
that's exactly what I do.
I go, okay, well, I need thisskill and that skill and I'm
going to put them all togetherand they're going to have the
perfect armor I'm currently onplaythrough number three of
Boulder's Gate 3 in tactilitymode, trying to 100% this thing,
which takes probably 500 hoursto do?
Yeah, I would imagine.
(24:57):
Yes, like I said, I likepleasure, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (25:00):
But another really important thing for us is like
we want to do a good job.
I'm not happy if I'm notgetting the results.
I'm going to beat myself upabout it.
So all the more motivation.
But one thing I realized lastyear that's been kind of a
revelation is that probablyabout 75% of my personal clients
I work with on Facebook adshave ADHD.
(25:21):
So I've been really studyingand learning and working with a
neurodivergent coach to reallyunderstand the ADHD brain and
how I can better communicate andadapt my service to work with
them better, which is especiallyinteresting because I have OCD,
which is kind of because I haveOCD, which is kind of the
opposite of ADHD and I'm like amI a magnet?
Are opposites attracting?
What's going on?
(25:47):
But I'm also giving my team thetraining to make sure that we
understand and incorporate,because so many authors are
neurodivergent, including me.
So, yes, woman led business,completely woman run business,
also a neurodivergent-owned andrun business, and we love what
we do.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
That's great.
So I wonder do you think thatthe ADHD and Facebook ads part
of that is that people who haveADHD maybe struggle a little bit
more with the platform itselfand that's why they're reaching
out for help?
Speaker 3 (26:20):
It's interesting because I asked the
neurodivergent coach.
I'm like, is it that they'reattracted to me because I have
OCD?
So I kind of like we're the yinand the yang, like I need kind
of what they have and they needkind of what I have, and we're
kind of opposite, but we needeach other.
Are they attracted to thatforce?
Or is it just that a lot ofauthors have ADHD?
Or is it that a lot of ADHDauthors need help with Facebook
(26:40):
ads?
And the coach said all of theabove probably Makes sense.
I think just a lot of authorsare neurodivergent and a
creative brain works differently, so it makes sense that I think
neurotypical is not the normwhen it comes to authors.
I think a lot of us havesomething going on.
I'm currently in the process ofbeing tested for autism spectrum
(27:00):
disorder, which has been a lotto handle and swallow.
You know I'm almost 40 andthey're like what.
I don't know this about myself,but I think the world is just
getting a lot more educated.
My husband was diagnosed withADHD at 41.
He's 42 now, so we've beendealing with that and a lot of
authors in our generation I'm anelder millennial are getting
(27:23):
diagnosed later in life and theworld is kind of adapting for
that.
But I think, especially withcreatives, we've all got
something like at least baseline.
We all have anxiety like comeon.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
We have a good friend who was on the podcast, I don't
know, maybe a year ago, who wasdiagnosed, you know, on the
spectrum, with autism, not untilshe was 60 or something like
that, and she's an author, ofcourse, and she just said it
just changed her life in so manypositive ways because it really
(27:58):
helped her to kind ofunderstand why certain things
would never work for her, eventhough she kept trying to do
them and make them work for herand then to capitalize on her
strengths.
You know, that kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (28:11):
Yeah, I have to say like I do think I think being
neurodivergent or not neuro.
You started to say like I dothink I think being
neurodivergent or not neuro.
You started to say somethingabout neurotypical or not
neurotypical and it's like yeah,it's not typical for the, for
the creative, like.
Neuro spicy, neuro spicy, yeah,but I think we all do have some
element.
That's what draws us to thearts.
(28:32):
Honestly, I think that's whatmakes makes our brains put the
pieces together in different,unique ways, and no matter what
that means, whether that's OCDor ADHD, and if they're on
opposite ends of the spectrum,it doesn't really matter.
It's that difference inperspective that only you can
bring to your story that makesit interesting and makes it art.
(28:55):
And I'm going to go off on aslight tangent here.
But I think that's why AI won'tever be fully successful, as in
writing a novel by itself.
Right, like just going okay, Iwant a novel about this subject
because it doesn't have thatunique perspective or that
spiciness of the brain and theconnections that the human brain
can bring to the art.
(29:17):
So there's my, there's mysoapbox rant for the moment.
Speaker 3 (29:20):
So cruel, so controversial, right yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
Yeah, exactly, I know .
You know that's mecontroversial.
Speaker 1 (29:27):
So another thing that you do um, that is a little, uh
, different than what a lot ofpeople do is you write many
different genres under manydifferent pen names and you also
publish in different ways.
So you indie publish with somethings and you traditionally
publish with other things, andso you like mix it up out there.
(29:51):
How does that do you think thatis something that has helped
you to be in balance?
Because I think it's somethinga lot of people resist doing and
are they doing themselves adisservice by resisting it.
What are your thoughts?
Speaker 3 (30:07):
It's such common advice stay in your lane.
Stay in your lane and I'm likebut I want to drive over there,
but I want to go there, but Iwant to get off on this exit for
a little and sightsee.
This is another neurodivergentthing and a lot of people
incorrectly assume I have ADHDbecause sometimes the OCD looks
that way.
But I get bored.
I go 110% at everything, whichmy child would point out.
(30:29):
You can only be 100%.
So I go 100% at everything andI'm so intense about what I do
that if I keep doing the samething ad nauseum, my creative
brain is going to get bored andI'm going to be unfulfilled.
So, talking about strengthsagain and back aside, I am a
number one tie for achiever andlearner, so I can go toward the
(30:53):
goal make this amount of money,get this accolade, have this
number of reviews, you know, getthis number of words.
But when I feel like I've maxedout a genre and learned
everything there is to learn, Iget bored.
So I actually tend to quitgenres at the height of my
success in them because I don'tfeel like I have a lot more to
learn and I'd be more fulfilledgoing somewhere else.
(31:13):
So this year I actuallyswitched both of my genres
because I usually have a happygo lucky genre and a darker,
like this is what I have to sayto the world and leave my legacy
behind genre.
And I kind of need both so Ican switch according to my mood.
And previously that was women'sfiction with mental health
themes and cozy mystery withtalking cats, and this year it's
(31:36):
going to be fantasy and forhappy go lucky, so fantasy, rom
com or like funny action,adventure fantasy and
psychological thriller.
So I kind of need I can't dotwo dark genres together and I
can't do two light genrestogether.
I really need one of each.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
So you need a business and a creative outlet,
and then you need a light and adark outlet.
This is what I'm hearing.
In other words, you have asplit personality.
I can take multitudes.
Speaker 3 (32:08):
Why wouldn't I want to share the multitudes, like
one of my best and favoritebooks I've ever written is such
a bad seller.
But my therapist loves thisbook because it's so bizarre and
it has like every bit of trauma.
Like I didn't realize what Iwas doing when I wrote it, but I
gave it to my therapist and wetalk about it all the time.
(32:29):
So she's like so we're going todiscuss your religious trauma,
so we're going to discuss this.
Oh, I noticed she had peoplecome and rescue her
(32:58):
no-transcript feminist postapocalyptic dystopia, which is
the one that doesn't do well,sometimes you just have to write
that and I was trying for alllast year to not write that
because I knew it wouldn't sell.
But I had to and I couldn'twrite anything else.
I tried I had to write thatbook.
(33:20):
Okay, good, it's done.
Maybe my next book I'm going towrite because it makes me happy
and entertains me and that willprobably be the one that makes
money.
But I can't not write thedarkness it eventually comes out
.
So now I'm that's kind of whyI'm gravitating towards
psychological thriller, becausethat genre invites the dark
really deep probes and you know,ocd and anxiety is a huge asset
(33:42):
here.
Speaker 1 (33:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:43):
Yeah, so I'm actually in the process of reading
Joanna Penn's Writing the Shadow.
I love that book.
I was gonna say have you?
Have you done any shadow workwith that?
Speaker 3 (33:54):
Yes.
So I supported that Kickstarterand listened to the audio book
and my husband quickly made arule that I'm not allowed to
talk about the shadow with himbecause it's so triggering.
I'm like I learned about how mycountry and religion are
traumatizing me today.
I learned about how I'm afraidof aging but not dying.
And he's like, please stoptalking about this.
But I listened to the audiobook and did all the work.
(34:18):
I actually have a shadowjournal in my window sitting
right here.
But I talked to my therapistabout this and I'm like, oh my
God, I just learned about this.
And she's like, yeah, we'vebeen doing shadow work all year.
I just haven't put a label onit.
So I'm like, no wonder I was soready for this.
I was already doing the work,yeah, but yeah, I've absolutely
loved it.
And I also.
(34:39):
I went to chat GPT and I gave itmy trauma book and I said,
please assess for shadow, young,shadow, whatever.
And then it gave me a list andI'm like, okay, what trauma does
this author have in their life?
And it's like, well, I can'tknow for sure.
But then it's like, here you goand I'm like, okay, what trauma
does this author have in theirlife.
And it's like, well, I can'tknow for sure.
But then it's like, here you goand I'm like, okay, what mental
health diagnoses does thisauthor have?
(35:00):
And it's like I'm not atherapist.
However, here you go and I justkept talking about.
I'm like, okay, based on yourunderstanding of the author and
the work, what genre should I bewriting?
It's like you should writepsychological thrillers.
So I saved that chat as robottherapist.
That's so funny, and I also goover what robot therapist says
(35:21):
with human therapists.
I haven't used it in a while.
It's kind of like if I'm indesperation, I'll go talk to a
robot therapist who understandsme very deeply from this work,
but I try not to use it becauseit is very my husband does not
like it when I go to these super, super dark places and then
want to talk about it at lengthwith him.
Speaker 1 (35:39):
So yeah, Well, it's also a little creepy to know
that a computer can know youthat well.
I don't know that is.
It could be another genre.
Speaker 3 (35:47):
Yes, that the robot therapist is how I found out
that it was intersectionalfeminism, which I know what that
is and I'm like you're right.
Like mechanism, which I knowwhat that is and I'm like you're
right.
Speaker 1 (35:57):
Like I had no idea, I had written that awesome, that
is interesting.
Speaker 3 (36:00):
Yeah, um, and one really helpful thing.
And like, hey, what triggersare in here?
And I'm like, oh, I would haveknown this.
When I was trying to write thetrigger warning for this book,
like it gave me the whole listof everything I came up with and
more.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
I was like, oh man, I missed an opportunity there wow
, yeah, but I think I to say toothat sometimes those books, I
mean they they are a form oftherapy, just writing that book
and just putting that out thereand I think you know, having
those emotional impacts.
I understand it didn't sellwell, but I bet for the people
(36:29):
that it did sell to or that didpick that that chose that book,
I bet it spoke to them verydeeply because it did resonate.
I've gotten some of the bestfan mail about that book.
Speaker 3 (36:37):
I bet it spoke to them very deeply because it did
resonate.
I've gotten some of the bestfan mail about that book.
Yeah, so it doesn't make money,which is fine I can get money
somewhere else but it has reallytouched a few people and that's
been the case whenever I writesomething really dark.
My third novel handled acharacter with an eating
disorder and that one was sodifficult that I had to dictate
to distance myself Becauseotherwise it felt too much like
(36:59):
my soul pouring, pouring,pouring because it's dealing
with things I've dealt with, butI've just the fan mailman.
It's okay that this didn't sellbecause this changed somebody's
life.
Yeah, usually my talking catantics don't change people's
lives.
They bring them some joy, butit's it's.
It's less special in a way,even though it's something I
(37:21):
enjoy and a lot of people enjoyand it makes money.
But I don't know, it's justreally special to write that
really weird thing.
That's what somebody needed andmaybe only your book can do.
Speaker 2 (37:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:32):
Yeah, what's interesting too because my two
series are the one that I'mgoing to be redoing is it's
psychological suspense and it'sdarker, much darker, and I
didn't realize how dark it wasas opposed to my, you know,
mortician murder, which is funnyand silly.
It's the dark side of death.
I mean, the light side of deathis the mortician murders, but
(37:56):
it's funny.
I didn't realize until I wasreading to my critique group
some of the first book in thefirst series, because I'm doing
some redo on that and everything, and it was like, wow, this is
really different than what I'vebeen writing with the mortician
series.
And I love what you just saidbecause I've had some feedback,
(38:16):
the stay in your lane feedback.
You know well why are you goingback to that dark stuff when the
brighter, funnier stuff iswhat's selling?
But there is a part of me thatwants to do that dark stuff, you
know, and I know what you'resaying.
It's like it's sort of like weeach have two sides of the same
(38:37):
coin in our.
You know, we are a coin and oneside might be bright and funny,
but the other side is darkerand more serious, and sometimes
you have to express both yeah,even if one doesn't sell as well
as the other one you know,money isn't the only reason to
write.
Speaker 3 (38:54):
And even if you think money is the only reason to
write, taking the time to writethat dark book has helped me on
a personal level so much thatprobably I'm going to get the
money back in other projectsbecause I've dealt with
something.
Emotionally I can relax better,maybe my health is better, so I
don't get hit with a $10,000surgery bill or something.
But it's done, something that'scontributed.
(39:15):
It's not just like here's themoney and royalties.
That's the value of thatUnclogging that creative block.
Like I was not going to everwrite another book again if I
didn't write this book is whatit came down to.
So all money from all futurebooks is this book, you know.
Speaker 1 (39:32):
Yeah, yeah, that's a really good way of looking at it
.
Speaker 2 (39:34):
So now I know your, your psychological thriller
that's coming out soon, ish, Iknow you.
I think you wrote it or startedor were toying with the idea
last year when we, when we metyou in Vegas.
But now you're taking that one,you're actually writing it and
you've just signed or in theprocess of signing.
Can we talk about that?
Speaker 3 (39:53):
Yeah, I just signed on.
I'm really excited with JoffyBooks UK based publisher.
I was a fan of them and readingthem, so when I met an editor
from them Via Greta.
Speaker 2 (40:06):
We've also met at Vegas.
That was a great conference.
Speaker 3 (40:09):
Oh my gosh it's a sign, yeah, yeah, how it all
came about.
It definitely feels fated,because psychological thriller
has been my favorite genre as areader forever and I've always
been too afraid to go to thatreally dark place.
So it was a combination of Ihad had enough therapy to not be
(40:31):
afraid and I was drinking atthe right time with the right
people, which included and umand uh.
For whatever reason I mentioned, I'm neurodivergent.
I'm weird as well.
Um, not necessarily mutuallyexclusive or anything, but I, I,
for whatever reason.
At 20 books I decided everytime I was drinking I would have
(40:53):
a British accent and thisBritish publicer found that not
off-putting.
My husband showed it and wasvery embarrassed Having a
British accent every time Iwould drink and ended up with a
British publisher.
So he told me that that's notrelated and I should not do that
, and probably the Brits arejust good at dealing with
(41:15):
nonsense and rubbish.
So that's not related.
And it wasn't my terribleaccent that got me a publishing
deal, but who knows.
Speaker 1 (41:23):
No, that's true.
I will say, though, that theeditor was drinking too, so that
maybe she just was doing anAmerican accent every time she
was drinking.
I don't know, so it's like, butI'm excited to read that book
because I also devourpsychological fiction.
I read a lot of it, and theBrits are great at it.
Oh yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (41:46):
So so, given so, leading into that, then, um,
you've done so much indiepublishing and you've done
traditional publishing and youhave multiple pen names, and how
do you actually go about makingthe decision of what project is
produced, which way, if thatmakes sense?
Yeah, like, what's your thoughtprocess behind that?
How do you approach that?
Speaker 3 (42:07):
Um, it's actually a lot of.
It is mental health centered.
So I also have four books withKensington under Melissa Storm,
women's fiction, and that'swhere my New York Times came
from my letters they put theydecided to put me in a
collection with Fern Michaelsand usually these collections do
well but don't hit the New YorkTimes list.
(42:29):
Well, this book was called HomeSweet Home and came out the
first week of quarantine forCOVID when everyone was buying
toilet paper.
It hit mass market paperbackbestseller list because home
sweet home when you're stuck athome, great, I'll read this
while I'm using all this toiletpaper.
Speaker 1 (42:46):
Not for toilet paper.
Speaker 2 (42:48):
Yeah, I was gonna say let's not make that connection
too strongly.
Speaker 3 (42:52):
It was a really happy accident and at the same time,
while there's dark and light andeverything like at the same
time, the fact my that was theprequel and book one was
launching a month later and itwas sickly.
It was about, uh, kids who havelost their parents to cancer,
adult children who form asupport group.
Nobody wanted that at thebeginning of COVID and my first
(43:13):
big book tour as a trad authorcanceled.
Oh, so COVID was good and bad.
Good and bad for my trad career, no regrets for sure.
And I hadn't signed anothercontract yet until I met with
Jaffe.
I always knew that if I wasgoing to write a psych thriller
I would want to need a publisher, because I knew it was the type
(43:35):
of book I wouldn't be able towrite fast.
I'd really have to be deep inmy brain and I would need
somebody to pull me out of it,Because I know it's a little bit
dangerous going into because ituses such psychological and
mental themes that I can accessa very, very dark place.
But it's not always safe and mypoor husband shouldn't have to
(43:56):
be the one every time.
He's the one most of the time.
But now it's my new editor'sjob, so that's why I made that
decision there.
Usually I like Indie because I'mnot a patient person.
So I write something and I wantit out immediately and I want
to talk about it immediately.
And if I don't publish itimmediately, I'll forget what
it's about because I've writtenthree other books in the
(44:16):
meantime.
And if I don't publish itimmediately, I'll forget what
it's about because I've writtenthree other books in the
meantime.
So I definitely have reasonsfor going trad, wanting the
support, wanting to hit adifferent audience or to write
like a bigger book, wanting tobe able to publish slower Most
of the time.
Indies are really great fit forme because I do love the
business side, but I really likehaving a balance and having
some projects in each.
(44:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (44:38):
Yeah, that's great.
We were kind of talking a littlebit before the show too about,
I think, that's.
I think personally that's wherethe market is going for authors
in particular, where there aregoing to be projects you're
going to want to do traditionaland there are going to be
projects you want to do indie.
And I think that's true forwhether you start out
traditional and go indie or viceversa you know, greta's also
(45:00):
got both and I haven't pitchedanything but it's certainly not
out of the realm of possibilityto go that route in the future.
I just think it makes so muchsense to have a process around
which you can decide thisproject needs the help because
it's dark, because it is in adifferent market, because it
doesn't fit the pen name thatI've already built, whatever
(45:22):
your reason is, but then beingable to do that so that, going
forward, you're making the bestdecision for your business as an
author and for your books asprojects, rather than just being
like, oh well, everybody shouldbe indie because it's the only
way you can make money.
I don't think that's a validreason anymore, or enough of a
reason.
Speaker 3 (45:40):
I think the weight of consequences change as you get
further in your career.
To like a first book or secondbook, that's a huge decision
into your tread because youdon't have the base built up and
you don't know what's going tohappen.
But I have around 150 books.
It's hard to say because thingsget pulled, republished, boxed
together.
You know I have some shorterworks 150-ish.
(46:01):
So just about one or two booksis not a life-changing decision.
So yes, choosing to dosomething different can be a
risk or a gamble.
I love gambling.
You met me in Vegas.
I don't gamble in real life,only with my career.
Speaker 1 (46:17):
Yeah, no, I think that's really true.
What you just said is that thedecisions are more pivotal in
the very beginning, like how youstart.
But once you get moving along,like deciding to, you know, oh,
I think I'll sign.
Well, I just signed a contractwith Tantor for audiobooks.
(46:38):
It's like, because I know I'mnot going to get to that, I know
that I'm not going to marketthem adequately if I were to do
it all by myself.
I just know me and I wouldrather let somebody else do that
, and I would be a nervous wrecktrying to pick the right
narrator.
And then I like people, so Iwouldn't want to tell somebody
no, you're not the rightnarrator.
(46:58):
That would just be awful for me.
So it's like, let somebody elsedo that and then I can work on.
Then it just frees up more timefor other projects.
Speaker 3 (47:07):
You know, I would say for me as a person with intense
anxiety, sometimes it's worthto take the risk and lose, just
so you can cross it off the listand you don't have to wonder
what if.
Speaker 1 (47:18):
Yeah, oh, you know what?
That's really good yeah.
Speaker 3 (47:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (47:22):
You definitely have an awfully a lot of wisdom,
melissa.
I think you could add a newbranch to novel marketing, and
it could be novel therapy.
Speaker 3 (47:32):
So I tell I primarily work with Facebook ads clients
and then I also do businessstrategy calls and I always tell
my clients, as a Facebook adspecialist, I actually have
three roles.
Number one is doing yourFacebook ads, number two is
discussing your strategy andnumber three is therapy.
Seriously, talk to me aboutanything.
Speaker 2 (47:53):
So, in other words, I need to go sign up to be one of
your clients, is what you'resaying?
Speaker 3 (47:58):
I mean, a lot of it is like so I'll have authors
come to me who have had a reallybad experience either with
another service provider ortried and failed on their own or
something's not connecting andthey're really hesitant to trust
and so I that it really is likea role of a therapist, of
teaching them to trust and howcan I earn their trust and and
(48:19):
soothe them so they feel goodabout this decision.
So I've gotten really good atthose things and then, like I
said, I do a lot of therapymyself.
Uh, therapy is awesome.
Yeah, I would recommend foreverybody.
I think we're like with Gen Zand Gen Alpha now.
I think it's like the standardand people really accepting of
that wasn't like that when I wasgrowing up in the 90s, but it
(48:40):
is now and that's a great thing.
Speaker 1 (48:42):
Yeah, yeah, I would agree.
I think we all need, if not aprofessional therapist if that's
not in somebody's you know,income or whatever.
Like good, wise people in yourlife that you can, that you
trust and you can cry on theirshoulder about anything is super
(49:03):
important.
Speaker 3 (49:04):
And, at the very least, robot therapist.
Oh right.
Speaker 1 (49:08):
Chat, gpt and be your therapist too.
That's great.
So, melissa, why don't you telleverybody where they can find
out more about you your pennames, your novel publicity and
all the amazing things you do?
And that cute cat in your lap?
Speaker 3 (49:26):
Okay, listeners cannot see the cute cat that
just jumped in Melissa's neckthe mean cat I warned you about
who might start a fight with mydog.
He'll just stay here and beadmired and not start anything.
Usa Today bestselling author,which is ridiculous, but he is.
It had both of our names on thebook because I wrote a
(49:47):
fictional biography about himand his name was the title, so I
consider that being him being aUSA Today.
Anyway, that's really funny.
Speaker 2 (49:55):
But that's great.
He's a big, beautiful, fluffycat and I'm just right in front
of this screen.
Speaker 3 (50:01):
Yes, so I'm an easy person to find.
You might know me as MelissaStorm or Molly Fitz.
My newest pen name is LunaRyder, but if you look up
Melissa Storm you will find meand Novel Publicity.
If you're interested in mybooks, you know free books for
signing up for everything NovelPublicity.
(50:22):
You can always book a call andsee.
And you can reach out to me insocial media.
I have a group on Facebookwhere I post free videos
whenever I feel like teachinganything.
I don't sell courses.
I used to.
I don't like doing it, I'drather just share stuff for free
.
So that group is out there.
I think it's called Facebookads and marketing mastery with
Melissa storm and one of mygoals that I made today is to
(50:46):
post in there once a week withshort videos.
So that's a really good placeto find me.
Novel publicity website isnovel publicitycom.
I just reorged and I did amajor sweep of the business
avail and current needs, so it'ssuper clean and nice and ready
for you to look at Awesome.
Speaker 1 (51:04):
Hey, all right.
Well, this has just beenamazingly good and given me so
much to think about.
So I'm sure that's true for allof you listeners.
And if you would like some moreclarity about who you are as a
writer and what you're doing andwhy you're doing it, we do have
a free seven-day course on ourwebsite Seven Days to Clarity.
(51:28):
Uncover your Author Purpose,and each day you'll get an email
that'll lead you toward writingan author business statement or
mission statement, excuse me,and then turning that mission
statement into a tagline.
And all of that is atauthorwheelcom.
So until next time, keep yourstories rolling.
Hi everyone, Welcome to the Author Wheel podcast.
I'm Greta Boris, USA Todaybestselling mystery thriller
author.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
And I'm Megan Haskell , award-winning fantasy
adventure author.
Together we are the AuthorWheel.
We have a fantasticconversation with multi-genre
author Melissa Storm for youthis week, where we talk about
everything from writing undermultiple pen names, being a
hybrid author by self-publishingand having contracts with
traditional publishers, and evenmental health and wellness.
(00:28):
But before we get into that,how are you doing this week,
greta?
Speaker 1 (00:32):
Well, it's been a busy one, which is normal, I
guess.
Busy but good, I'm coming downto the end of the rewrite of the
third book in what was theSeven Deadlies, soon to be
called an almost true crimeseries, and I'm hoping to turn
that one in this week.
I feel like, as I'm going, I'mstarting to get kind of a flow
(00:55):
or rhythm to this process, and Ido think the third book was I
knew it was going to be thetoughest and it did take me
quite some time was what I knewit was going to be the toughest
and it did take me quite sometime.
So I'll be really happy to turnthat one in and get started on
the fourth book.
Nice, yeah, so also.
So this week, probably the mostinteresting thing that I did was
(01:18):
an experiment with my authorfriend, pamela Fagan Hutchins.
We interviewed her on October9th 2023, season four, episode
five, if you want to refreshyourself on who she is and what
she does.
Anyway, I did a takeover of herFacebook author group and I'm
(01:39):
not sure it did tons for my list, but it did teach me a couple
of things about being present onsocial media and what kind of
things people responded to andwhat kind of things they didn't
respond to.
I think my biggest takeaway wasthat it is pretty time
consuming for the directbenefits, like sometimes I
(02:02):
compare social media for authorsto like wearing your underwear,
make no, nobody.
Maybe people don't know it'sthere, but it's kind of best
that you don't not wear them.
You know, it's just one ofthose things you know.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
That's an interesting analogy.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
Yeah For social media .
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Wearing your underwear to your social media.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
People might not recognize it, but do you really
want to go without it?
Speaker 3 (02:33):
Yeah, yeah, anyway.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
So, but it's hard to quantify the results right.
It's not like advertising,where you can go.
This is how many clicks I gotand this is how much the clicks
cost me and this is how theclicks related to my sales and
you know, was it worth it or notworth it?
Financially it's not, there's.
It's.
It's much more loosey goosey, alot more subjective and that
(03:00):
kind of thing.
So I'm she's having a big booklaunch Facebook party on Easter
and I'm kind of a part of that.
I mean, I don't think I'llactually be there, but I'm
scheduling posts and and I'mgiving away books to her people.
So we'll see how that goes aswell.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
Yeah, Anyway, yeah, I was talking with one of my
coaching clients this week aboutsocial media.
She asked you know she's?
She's about to launch her debutnovel and she was kind of
questioning like she's notcurrently very active on social
media, so does she need to startup her accounts and stuff?
And my general thought is thatit's kind of, unless you already
(03:37):
enjoy it and already enjoyedthat kind of content creation,
it can be a time sink withoutdirect measurement.
So it does seem to be kind oflike a it's good to have it, but
I don't know Like we need toget a social media person on
here.
I guess is really where I'mgoing with this, because I have
lots of questions.
(03:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
I do too.
Like because I look at somepeople who I think are doing it
well and it does seem to benefitthem.
Yeah, like I do think PamelaFagan Hutchins does it well and
she has a big group she callsthe posse and they're in there
and they're active, and I thinkthat was part of it is like they
(04:19):
were like who is this GretaBoris person?
We're here for Pamela.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
We're not here for Greta, you know.
So I think maybe that's why thetakeover wasn't super
successful.
But then you look at an authorwho I would love to have on
sometime, brenda Novak, and shehas like a book club, a Facebook
book club, and every month shedoes baskets and every month
they feature a different author.
Sometimes it's her andsometimes it's author friends
(04:46):
and you know, it's looks likeit's probably really a big part
of her business.
Yeah, but she has her daughterruns it for her, because it's
very time consuming.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
Yeah, in a lot of ways it's like another business,
it's a.
I mean there are people whomake their business as social
media influencers and contentcreators.
So for an author to add that onagain, unless you already love
it, if you do, great, keep it up, you know.
But if you don't.
I can see, I don't know.
(05:20):
For me it's very tough anyway.
Yeah, but yeah, I think weshould get social media people
on here.
We'll work on that.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
Yes.
So what are you doing this week?
I know it's a busy one.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
It definitely, definitely is.
So, first off, I got Invisaligninstalled on my teeth yesterday
.
So if I'm lisping a little, I'mtrying really hard not to.
Hopefully it's not too bad ortoo much and hopefully I'll get
over it quickly.
For, you know, podcasting mytongue will figure out how to
(05:51):
deal with these things on myteeth, but also I think it
forces me to talk just a littlebit slower, which might not be a
bad thing.
So, you know, we'll see,hopefully, hopefully it's all
it's not too bad, and you allcan, you know, send us an email
if you're going.
Oh my God, megan, take thosethings off your teeth when
(06:11):
you're podcasting and I will.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
I barely can tell oh, that's good, that's good, I'm
very conscious of it.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
But in any case and then in other news I do have I
have this kind of super secretnew opportunity that's been
building in the background andtaking up some of my time this
week and we're not talking aboutit yet.
So I'm teasing it here, I'mleaving y'all on a cliffhanger,
but there will be news comingout about that in the next few
(06:40):
months, coming out about that inthe next few months.
But that's been.
It's been really really good.
But it's also been, you know, alittle bit of extra work and on
my regular schedule.
And then in the meantime I'mmaking my final preparations for
WonderCon as we record this.
(07:00):
So there's so many tasks Ialways forget how many things I
have to do to set up forespecially a big event like
WonderCon.
And once I get it set up it'llbe pretty much good for the rest
of the year.
But I've got to get ebookdownload cards made.
I've got to set up my emailsubscription and autoresponders,
(07:21):
making sure everything isflowing the way it's supposed to
for new readers that are cominginto the system.
Got to double check myinventory box everything up, get
it all ready, make sure myregister is set up on my phone
properly print out the pricingsheets.
So much stuff.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
That would be another interesting podcast episode.
Maybe I should interview you onhow to do live in-person events
like WonderCon, because thereare probably listeners out there
who say, you know, maybethey're not going to do
something as big as WonderCon,but they are going to go to some
boutique or some place sellbooks and you know.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
Yeah, and I do a lot of those throughout the year.
Now, I mean, last year I thinkI did four or five book selling
events and I think this yearI've got another four or five,
um, and a few big ones.
So, yeah, we should do that.
We should do that.
In fact, we might need to splitit up in a couple different
episodes.
We'll have to think about thatand talk offline, because
there's the prep work and setup,but then there's also how to
(08:21):
sell and make events successful.
So I think those are twodifferent, potentially two
different episodes, but we'llchat more and we'll let you know
what happens with that.
Before we move on, I just wantto take a quick moment to remind
you to please subscribe to thepodcast, post a review if you
love it and then share yourfavorite episode with a writer
(08:42):
friend.
The more you share, the betteroff we all are and can learn
together.
Now on to the episode withMelissa Storm.
Today we are thrilled,absolutely thrilled, to have
Melissa Storm on the show.
Melissa is the New York Timesand USA Today bestselling author
(09:03):
, who is happiest with a book inher hands and a pet in her lap.
She writes in a number ofgenres, including women's
fiction and psych thrillers.
Melissa lives with her familyin the heart of Alaska.
So welcome, melissa.
We are so excited to have youon the show.
This is gonna be a fabulousconversation, I can already tell
.
Speaker 3 (09:21):
Hello, hello, happy to be here with you both.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
I can already tell Hello, hello, happy to be here
with you both.
Yeah, we've already had a fullconversation before we even hit
record, so this is going to be afun one.
You all listeners, you are infor a treat.
Melissa, is that bio justdoesn't quite do her justice?
Speaker 2 (09:39):
It really doesn't.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
So multifaceted and so successful in so many
different areas, and you know sohopefully we'll just get a
chance to touch on at least afew of them.
So we're going to start withthe question we ask everybody,
and that is can you tell us alittle bit about your journey
(10:01):
into writing and publishing,like what got you bit by the bug
and how'd you get started?
Speaker 3 (10:08):
Oh, my goodness.
I think my first author bioback in the day said I was born
with a fountain pen clutchedfirmly in my left hand and I've
gotten away from purple prosesince then, so it's no longer in
my bio.
But when I was young I actuallywanted to be a cartoonist for
Disney and I used to win a lotof art contests and always
(10:30):
drawing, and then I would writestories to go with my drawings
and then at some point Iswitched away from drawing and
got more and more into writing.
I wrote my first book in 2010.
I published for the first timein 2011.
And I was trying to go thetraditional route because this
(10:51):
was kind of before indiepublishing was mainstream, and I
was trying to find a literaryagent for that first novel.
And I got online Twitter and ablog, because that was what you
did.
The Twitterverse, yes it was.
I was going to build an authorplatform because they all said
you need an author platform.
But I wasn't an author yetbecause I hadn't published yet.
(11:11):
You know in my mind.
So my blog and Twitter justtook off and within a week,
everybody was calling me asocial media expert.
So I was like, well, this isinteresting, this fits.
And I was like, maybe I'llwrite an ebook about marketing.
And then instead I made abusiness Novel Publicity.
So that launched the same yearas my first book and was just
(11:34):
immediately super successful andhas continued to be successful
to present day.
So it took me a while to thebusiness, was so needy.
For a long time I said it wasmy wife and writing is my
mistress and I can't quit eitherbecause I love them both.
But I always felt guilty aboutspending time with my mistress
when the wife needed me, thewife being the business and the
(11:56):
mistress being the writing.
So around 2016, 17, I finallydecided that I was going to
treat myself the way I treatedmy clients and I made a rule I
do it for them, I do it for me,and that's when my writing
started to take off.
So I started making more timeand learning to delegate, which
(12:16):
is one of the hardest but mostrewarding things I've ever done
in my life, and now I'm able tosplit time between the two,
although I will say so far for2024,.
The wife is really on me.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
She's being very demanding, she's so demanding.
Speaker 3 (12:33):
She is such a long list and it keeps getting added
to.
But I just, you know, I havethese two halves of my business
and creative soul and I reallyneed both to be fulfilled.
So I'm, you know, puttingsystems in place so that I can
get back to having both in mylife again.
So, oh, that's nice.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
Yeah, that's something that Greta and I have
talked about in the past, bothin interviews or online and also
just privately, Because I thinkwe both have that same drive
where, for me, like, writing ismy creative outlet and then the
author wheel is my my businessoutlet, because I actually have
an undergraduate business degreeand so I've always needed both
(13:13):
sides of those.
But finding the balance can beso, so hard, Because I think,
when, when you can focus on justone, it's like okay, well,
that's the thing that you do.
But when you have two very, youknow, related but very
different elements of yourpersonality that you're
expressing through differentactivities, like it can be hard
(13:36):
to like set those priorities andthat balance.
So how do you, or what systemshave you put in place to help
find that balance?
I mean, I know you said you'restruggling with the wife right
now, but how are you gettingback into that, that that
satisfying self and that joy?
Speaker 3 (13:53):
So I put balance right up there with delegation
is one of the most rewarding anddifficult things I've ever
worked on.
Last year, 2023, was a big yearof mental health for me.
So really learning to get offthe clock and put work away and
have leisure and have time withfamily and making sure I'm
(14:14):
hitting all these areas of lifeand as you add more and more
pieces in, it's harder tocomplete the puzzle.
So I wanted to make sure myrelationship, my family, my
business, my writing, my healthall taken care of, and it's nigh
impossible to do all at anygiven time.
So I kind of think of Maslow'shierarchy of needs, but I have a
(14:40):
what's a non-square wordversion of the word.
I want to use A doggy-izedversion of the pyramid.
So messed up I have at thebottom of the pyramid.
The business needs to be stableand good, because I'm dealing
with a lot of money on behalf ofmy clients and I have a staff
(15:02):
that I provide a living for.
So if something's wrong there,nothing else is taken care of,
nothing else can happen.
So if that base is solid, thenI'm allowed to sleep.
I thought sleep was the bottomof the pyramid.
My husband's like no, becausewhen there's a work problem, you
wake up at 1am and startworking until you can't anymore,
and I'm like that's true, sosleep, getting eight hours
(15:26):
regularly, really more like ninehours.
I'm needy in that way.
If I'm if the business, good andI'm getting the nine hours,
then I have time for leisure.
That's usually the first thingthat goes if I'm overwhelmed.
If I'm doing well, though, Ihave time to read every day.
I play video games every day.
It's really important for me.
When I'm sleeping, leisurebusiness is good, then I can be
(15:48):
creative and write, but if anyof that stuff is not fulfilled,
I don't even try to write.
I give myself the grace becauseit's not going to happen.
When I'm regularly writing andthis is kind of a cop out when
I'm regularly writing andeverything's good, then I can
focus on my health and use thehome gym that I built and spent
$10,000 on and haven't used once.
Oh my goodness.
(16:10):
I'm like if I'm not writing,there's that's something I want
to do.
There's no way I'm going to goget on the Peloton or use the
tonal.
There's no way I'm going toforce myself to do that if I'm
not writing.
So I kind of have that pyramid,and the health stuff is kind of
a star at the top because it'salso a Christmas tree, which is
the triangle too.
So I don't know if I answeredthe question, but there is my
(16:33):
thing.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
So it's not necessarily about balance, but
it's making sure that I have afirm base to move up the pyramid
.
Actually, I think that's reallya great way to look at it,
because it's true, I think if,unless you're a person who's
very compartmentalized which Idon't think is particularly
healthy it is really hard, likeif your health or your family
relationships or your businessor whatever is falling apart,
how on earth does anybody stopand expect themselves to come up
(17:06):
with an adorable cat detectivestory?
You know that just wouldn'thappen for me.
I can tell you that.
Speaker 3 (17:13):
It's all got slot in the police yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
Yeah, and I think it's interesting.
I would say that I mean thathaving that priority sort of set
in your mind that makes iteasier to like say, okay, what
do I need to focus on today?
Because if you've got a problemin your business, obviously
that's gonna take that priority.
You already know that becauseyou have it laid out in this
pyramid.
But what I find interesting isactually that's a very flexible
(17:37):
system for for everybody.
I mean, I I probably have neverframed it that way, but could
and but, my, my tears are goingto be a little bit different
than yours are, cause I don'thave a business that pays other
people's salary.
So that's not my bottom,because it's just me.
(17:58):
So my bottom is the sleep um,because if I don't get sleep I
can't function.
Um, for my family, uh, you knowI've got two kids and stuff, so
so I, I like that, that, thatsystem, and kind of framing it
that way in the hierarchy ofneeds, but then shifting it for
each person individually, basedon where they're at in their
(18:19):
life and their you know, currentsystem.
Speaker 3 (18:22):
I want to build and live in the great pyramids of
Giza.
I don't want to be playingJenga, yeah.
So I know that if I'm missinglevel two, sleep.
No other levels need to try tobe built because they're not
going to stay put.
No other levels need to try tobe built because they're not
going to stay put.
Yeah, they need that.
(18:44):
So I don't even try.
And that was a huge thing.
I have obsessive compulsivedisorder and anxiety and I would
get so burnt out and stressedout of why am I not writing?
And I would just shame myselfand beat myself up because I'm
not writing.
But now I know oh, theconditions, you know the weather
conditions.
There's no writing, warning orwatch today.
It's not happening.
So thinking of it like apyramid and that each level has
(19:09):
to be stacked to go to the nextlevel has allowed me to just say
the business is really needy.
Right now Writing's not goingto happen, but if I do a really
good job and build these systemsin place, writing will happen
later.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:21):
Like.
It's frustrating anddisappointing because at this
point it's been a couple ofmonths, which is great.
My business is growing reallygreat and I'm enjoying it so
much and we're helping a lot ofpeople, but I miss writing a lot
.
Yeah, so tomorrow I've clearedthe deck, the pyramid is built
and I'm going to write tomorrow,provided, you know, a storm
(19:42):
doesn't come in.
I love mixing metaphors just tokeep you on your toes.
Yeah, so we're ready for that.
But yeah, I'm not botheringmyself about exercising until
I'm writing regularly, at whichpoint I'm going to have to have
a kind of a wake-up call and belike oh, my excuse is gone and
(20:04):
figure that out.
That'll be good for me, yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
My pyramid doesn't work if I'm not exercising.
So we need to just get togetherand inspire each other, because
I will put business aside anyold day to exercise, because
exercise used to be my business,so it's like ingrained in my
brain.
But I do think that thispyramid idea is just brilliant.
And how else can you accomplishall the things that you're
(20:28):
accomplishing?
Just as a quick little aside,because I really want to talk
more about you because you're sointeresting, but why don't you
just tell everybody what NovelPublicity is and does, just
because everybody's probablygoing well, what is her business
?
Speaker 3 (20:42):
Yeah, novel Publicity is my flagship business that I
started in February 2011,.
When everybody started callingme a social media expert and I
was like I got to do somethingwith this.
Back then I used to work 15, 16hours a day.
Probably five years straight Iworked 15, 16 hours a day, so I
did not have balance for areally long time.
The pyramid is relatively new,but I decided I was going to do
(21:06):
this, so I went deep and Ilearned website coding and
business and everything and itwas immediately successful.
That was back in the day whenall of this was really new, and
one of our flagship servicesthat we got really well known
for was blog tours.
We haven't offered that servicefor years.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
So a big part of novel publicity is staying on
top of what's working forauthors now and doing those
things.
So it's not just doing itbecause we know it's a good
thing, but also that we have theskills to offer it to the level
of excellence I want.
Right now we're dealing witheverybody wants us to do TikTok
ads, but I don't know enoughabout it yet to be confident and
(21:49):
I want to make sure that youknow we knock it out of the park
when we do that.
So that's in development.
That's a little spoiler.
First you hear it is here onthe author wheel and when I feel
really confident that we'regoing to do an amazing job with
it, it will be available.
But we've just constantlychanged what we offer based on
(22:10):
what's working and what my teamcan master, and right now we
have five departments Facebookads, amazon ads marketing,
international marketing, reallybig focus on translations and
other languages and direct salesdevelopment.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
Wow, wow, that's great.
Yeah, I just was talking tosomebody who is working with
somebody in your department onFacebook ads and she's thrilled
with how it's going for her.
She just loves it.
So, yeah, that is, and howneeded.
No wonder that business tookoff, because we've just had this
conversation with somebody whowe interviewed, who will be on
(22:47):
the podcast soon, about herbiggest challenge is marketing,
and that is so true for so many,for so many authors.
Speaker 3 (22:54):
Yeah, and not everything works for everybody.
Like I, have a certain degreeof knowledge and competency in
all the departments as the CEO,but I'm not running Amazon ads.
I do not like them.
They do not jive with me.
I love running Facebook ads.
I'm really good at it.
Amazon ads I can do, but I hateand I want to do things I love,
(23:17):
because then I get the bestresults.
Direct sales same things.
I used to be a web developer.
I love building websites.
I really do not enjoy directsales at all, but I have someone
on my team who does.
So we play to our strengths,interests, abilities and for all
of my teams we've done theCliftonStrengths and coaching
(23:37):
Rebecca Stein, so that we'rereally well attuned to the
fields we are working inspecifically and that we can
make sure the clients get thebest experience because they
have the best person for Amazonads communicating with the best
person for Facebook ads andwe're all kind of in the right
place.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
That's great, that's so important and we're all kind
of in the right place.
That's great, that's soimportant.
And I'm just going to put in alittle plug for women here,
because most of the time I thinkwomen are way better at that
than men is dialing in who'sgood at what and getting the
egos out of the way and lettingeverybody shine in their own
little corner.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
The difference between the hero's journey and
the heroine's journey is reallywhat that comes down to.
Are you by yourself defeatingthe dragon because you're the
only person, the chosen one,that can do it, or are you
finding the team who can all endup with the win-win outcome in
the end?
Speaker 3 (24:29):
We're thinking a fully maxed balance party into
the dungeon, my friend.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
Which is funny, because when I play games,
that's exactly what I do.
I go, okay, well, I need thisskill and that skill and I'm
going to put them all togetherand they're going to have the
perfect armor I'm currently onplaythrough number three of
Boulder's Gate 3 in tactilitymode, trying to 100% this thing,
which takes probably 500 hoursto do?
Yeah, I would imagine.
(24:57):
Yes, like I said, I likepleasure, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (25:00):
But another really important thing for us is like
we want to do a good job.
I'm not happy if I'm notgetting the results.
I'm going to beat myself upabout it.
So all the more motivation.
But one thing I realized lastyear that's been kind of a
revelation is that probablyabout 75% of my personal clients
I work with on Facebook adshave ADHD.
(25:21):
So I've been really studyingand learning and working with a
neurodivergent coach to reallyunderstand the ADHD brain and
how I can better communicate andadapt my service to work with
them better, which is especiallyinteresting because I have OCD,
which is kind of because I haveOCD, which is kind of the
opposite of ADHD and I'm like amI a magnet?
Are opposites attracting?
What's going on?
(25:47):
But I'm also giving my team thetraining to make sure that we
understand and incorporate,because so many authors are
neurodivergent, including me.
So, yes, woman led business,completely woman run business,
also a neurodivergent-owned andrun business, and we love what
we do.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
That's great.
So I wonder do you think thatthe ADHD and Facebook ads part
of that is that people who haveADHD maybe struggle a little bit
more with the platform itselfand that's why they're reaching
out for help?
Speaker 3 (26:20):
It's interesting because I asked the
neurodivergent coach.
I'm like, is it that they'reattracted to me because I have
OCD?
So I kind of like we're the yinand the yang, like I need kind
of what they have and they needkind of what I have, and we're
kind of opposite, but we needeach other.
Are they attracted to thatforce?
Or is it just that a lot ofauthors have ADHD?
Or is it that a lot of ADHDauthors need help with Facebook
(26:40):
ads?
And the coach said all of theabove probably Makes sense.
I think just a lot of authorsare neurodivergent and a
creative brain works differently, so it makes sense that I think
neurotypical is not the normwhen it comes to authors.
I think a lot of us havesomething going on.
I'm currently in the process ofbeing tested for autism spectrum
(27:00):
disorder, which has been a lotto handle and swallow.
You know I'm almost 40 andthey're like what.
I don't know this about myself,but I think the world is just
getting a lot more educated.
My husband was diagnosed withADHD at 41.
He's 42 now, so we've beendealing with that and a lot of
authors in our generation I'm anelder millennial are getting
(27:23):
diagnosed later in life and theworld is kind of adapting for
that.
But I think, especially withcreatives, we've all got
something like at least baseline.
We all have anxiety like comeon.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
We have a good friend who was on the podcast, I don't
know, maybe a year ago, who wasdiagnosed, you know, on the
spectrum, with autism, not untilshe was 60 or something like
that, and she's an author, ofcourse, and she just said it
just changed her life in so manypositive ways because it really
(27:58):
helped her to kind ofunderstand why certain things
would never work for her, eventhough she kept trying to do
them and make them work for herand then to capitalize on her
strengths.
You know, that kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (28:11):
Yeah, I have to say like I do think I think being
neurodivergent or not neuro.
You started to say like I dothink I think being
neurodivergent or not neuro.
You started to say somethingabout neurotypical or not
neurotypical and it's like yeah,it's not typical for the, for
the creative, like.
Neuro spicy, neuro spicy, yeah,but I think we all do have some
element.
That's what draws us to thearts.
(28:32):
Honestly, I think that's whatmakes makes our brains put the
pieces together in different,unique ways, and no matter what
that means, whether that's OCDor ADHD, and if they're on
opposite ends of the spectrum,it doesn't really matter.
It's that difference inperspective that only you can
bring to your story that makesit interesting and makes it art.
(28:55):
And I'm going to go off on aslight tangent here.
But I think that's why AI won'tever be fully successful, as in
writing a novel by itself.
Right, like just going okay, Iwant a novel about this subject
because it doesn't have thatunique perspective or that
spiciness of the brain and theconnections that the human brain
can bring to the art.
(29:17):
So there's my, there's mysoapbox rant for the moment.
Speaker 3 (29:20):
So cruel, so controversial, right yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
Yeah, exactly, I know .
You know that's mecontroversial.
Speaker 1 (29:27):
So another thing that you do um, that is a little, uh
, different than what a lot ofpeople do is you write many
different genres under manydifferent pen names and you also
publish in different ways.
So you indie publish with somethings and you traditionally
publish with other things, andso you like mix it up out there.
(29:51):
How does that do you think thatis something that has helped
you to be in balance?
Because I think it's somethinga lot of people resist doing and
are they doing themselves adisservice by resisting it.
What are your thoughts?
Speaker 3 (30:07):
It's such common advice stay in your lane.
Stay in your lane and I'm likebut I want to drive over there,
but I want to go there, but Iwant to get off on this exit for
a little and sightsee.
This is another neurodivergentthing and a lot of people
incorrectly assume I have ADHDbecause sometimes the OCD looks
that way.
But I get bored.
I go 110% at everything, whichmy child would point out.
(30:29):
You can only be 100%.
So I go 100% at everything andI'm so intense about what I do
that if I keep doing the samething ad nauseum, my creative
brain is going to get bored andI'm going to be unfulfilled.
So, talking about strengthsagain and back aside, I am a
number one tie for achiever andlearner, so I can go toward the
(30:53):
goal make this amount of money,get this accolade, have this
number of reviews, you know, getthis number of words.
But when I feel like I've maxedout a genre and learned
everything there is to learn, Iget bored.
So I actually tend to quitgenres at the height of my
success in them because I don'tfeel like I have a lot more to
learn and I'd be more fulfilledgoing somewhere else.
(31:13):
So this year I actuallyswitched both of my genres
because I usually have a happygo lucky genre and a darker,
like this is what I have to sayto the world and leave my legacy
behind genre.
And I kind of need both so Ican switch according to my mood.
And previously that was women'sfiction with mental health
themes and cozy mystery withtalking cats, and this year it's
(31:36):
going to be fantasy and forhappy go lucky, so fantasy, rom
com or like funny action,adventure fantasy and
psychological thriller.
So I kind of need I can't dotwo dark genres together and I
can't do two light genrestogether.
I really need one of each.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
So you need a business and a creative outlet,
and then you need a light and adark outlet.
This is what I'm hearing.
In other words, you have asplit personality.
I can take multitudes.
Speaker 3 (32:08):
Why wouldn't I want to share the multitudes, like
one of my best and favoritebooks I've ever written is such
a bad seller.
But my therapist loves thisbook because it's so bizarre and
it has like every bit of trauma.
Like I didn't realize what Iwas doing when I wrote it, but I
gave it to my therapist and wetalk about it all the time.
(32:29):
So she's like so we're going todiscuss your religious trauma,
so we're going to discuss this.
Oh, I noticed she had peoplecome and rescue her
(32:58):
no-transcript feminist postapocalyptic dystopia, which is
the one that doesn't do well,sometimes you just have to write
that and I was trying for alllast year to not write that
because I knew it wouldn't sell.
But I had to and I couldn'twrite anything else.
I tried I had to write thatbook.
(33:20):
Okay, good, it's done.
Maybe my next book I'm going towrite because it makes me happy
and entertains me and that willprobably be the one that makes
money.
But I can't not write thedarkness it eventually comes out
.
So now I'm that's kind of whyI'm gravitating towards
psychological thriller, becausethat genre invites the dark
really deep probes and you know,ocd and anxiety is a huge asset
(33:42):
here.
Speaker 1 (33:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:43):
Yeah, so I'm actually in the process of reading
Joanna Penn's Writing the Shadow.
I love that book.
I was gonna say have you?
Have you done any shadow workwith that?
Speaker 3 (33:54):
Yes.
So I supported that Kickstarterand listened to the audio book
and my husband quickly made arule that I'm not allowed to
talk about the shadow with himbecause it's so triggering.
I'm like I learned about how mycountry and religion are
traumatizing me today.
I learned about how I'm afraidof aging but not dying.
And he's like, please stoptalking about this.
But I listened to the audiobook and did all the work.
(34:18):
I actually have a shadowjournal in my window sitting
right here.
But I talked to my therapistabout this and I'm like, oh my
God, I just learned about this.
And she's like, yeah, we'vebeen doing shadow work all year.
I just haven't put a label onit.
So I'm like, no wonder I was soready for this.
I was already doing the work,yeah, but yeah, I've absolutely
loved it.
And I also.
(34:39):
I went to chat GPT and I gave itmy trauma book and I said,
please assess for shadow, young,shadow, whatever.
And then it gave me a list andI'm like, okay, what trauma does
this author have in their life?
And it's like, well, I can'tknow for sure.
But then it's like, here you goand I'm like, okay, what trauma
does this author have in theirlife.
And it's like, well, I can'tknow for sure.
But then it's like, here you goand I'm like, okay, what mental
health diagnoses does thisauthor have?
(35:00):
And it's like I'm not atherapist.
However, here you go and I justkept talking about.
I'm like, okay, based on yourunderstanding of the author and
the work, what genre should I bewriting?
It's like you should writepsychological thrillers.
So I saved that chat as robottherapist.
That's so funny, and I also goover what robot therapist says
(35:21):
with human therapists.
I haven't used it in a while.
It's kind of like if I'm indesperation, I'll go talk to a
robot therapist who understandsme very deeply from this work,
but I try not to use it becauseit is very my husband does not
like it when I go to these super, super dark places and then
want to talk about it at lengthwith him.
Speaker 1 (35:39):
So yeah, Well, it's also a little creepy to know
that a computer can know youthat well.
I don't know that is.
It could be another genre.
Speaker 3 (35:47):
Yes, that the robot therapist is how I found out
that it was intersectionalfeminism, which I know what that
is and I'm like you're right.
Like mechanism, which I knowwhat that is and I'm like you're
right.
Speaker 1 (35:57):
Like I had no idea, I had written that awesome, that
is interesting.
Speaker 3 (36:00):
Yeah, um, and one really helpful thing.
And like, hey, what triggersare in here?
And I'm like, oh, I would haveknown this.
When I was trying to write thetrigger warning for this book,
like it gave me the whole listof everything I came up with and
more.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
I was like, oh man, I missed an opportunity there wow
, yeah, but I think I to say toothat sometimes those books, I
mean they they are a form oftherapy, just writing that book
and just putting that out thereand I think you know, having
those emotional impacts.
I understand it didn't sellwell, but I bet for the people
(36:29):
that it did sell to or that didpick that that chose that book,
I bet it spoke to them verydeeply because it did resonate.
I've gotten some of the bestfan mail about that book.
Speaker 3 (36:37):
I bet it spoke to them very deeply because it did
resonate.
I've gotten some of the bestfan mail about that book.
Yeah, so it doesn't make money,which is fine I can get money
somewhere else but it has reallytouched a few people and that's
been the case whenever I writesomething really dark.
My third novel handled acharacter with an eating
disorder and that one was sodifficult that I had to dictate
to distance myself Becauseotherwise it felt too much like
(36:59):
my soul pouring, pouring,pouring because it's dealing
with things I've dealt with, butI've just the fan mailman.
It's okay that this didn't sellbecause this changed somebody's
life.
Yeah, usually my talking catantics don't change people's
lives.
They bring them some joy, butit's it's.
It's less special in a way,even though it's something I
(37:21):
enjoy and a lot of people enjoyand it makes money.
But I don't know, it's justreally special to write that
really weird thing.
That's what somebody needed andmaybe only your book can do.
Speaker 2 (37:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:32):
Yeah, what's interesting too because my two
series are the one that I'mgoing to be redoing is it's
psychological suspense and it'sdarker, much darker, and I
didn't realize how dark it wasas opposed to my, you know,
mortician murder, which is funnyand silly.
It's the dark side of death.
I mean, the light side of deathis the mortician murders, but
(37:56):
it's funny.
I didn't realize until I wasreading to my critique group
some of the first book in thefirst series, because I'm doing
some redo on that and everything, and it was like, wow, this is
really different than what I'vebeen writing with the mortician
series.
And I love what you just saidbecause I've had some feedback,
(38:16):
the stay in your lane feedback.
You know well why are you goingback to that dark stuff when the
brighter, funnier stuff iswhat's selling?
But there is a part of me thatwants to do that dark stuff, you
know, and I know what you'resaying.
It's like it's sort of like weeach have two sides of the same
(38:37):
coin in our.
You know, we are a coin and oneside might be bright and funny,
but the other side is darkerand more serious, and sometimes
you have to express both yeah,even if one doesn't sell as well
as the other one you know,money isn't the only reason to
write.
Speaker 3 (38:54):
And even if you think money is the only reason to
write, taking the time to writethat dark book has helped me on
a personal level so much thatprobably I'm going to get the
money back in other projectsbecause I've dealt with
something.
Emotionally I can relax better,maybe my health is better, so I
don't get hit with a $10,000surgery bill or something.
But it's done, something that'scontributed.
(39:15):
It's not just like here's themoney and royalties.
That's the value of thatUnclogging that creative block.
Like I was not going to everwrite another book again if I
didn't write this book is whatit came down to.
So all money from all futurebooks is this book, you know.
Speaker 1 (39:32):
Yeah, yeah, that's a really good way of looking at it
.
Speaker 2 (39:34):
So now I know your, your psychological thriller
that's coming out soon, ish, Iknow you.
I think you wrote it or startedor were toying with the idea
last year when we, when we metyou in Vegas.
But now you're taking that one,you're actually writing it and
you've just signed or in theprocess of signing.
Can we talk about that?
Speaker 3 (39:53):
Yeah, I just signed on.
I'm really excited with JoffyBooks UK based publisher.
I was a fan of them and readingthem, so when I met an editor
from them Via Greta.
Speaker 2 (40:06):
We've also met at Vegas.
That was a great conference.
Speaker 3 (40:09):
Oh my gosh it's a sign, yeah, yeah, how it all
came about.
It definitely feels fated,because psychological thriller
has been my favorite genre as areader forever and I've always
been too afraid to go to thatreally dark place.
So it was a combination of Ihad had enough therapy to not be
(40:31):
afraid and I was drinking atthe right time with the right
people, which included and umand uh.
For whatever reason I mentioned, I'm neurodivergent.
I'm weird as well.
Um, not necessarily mutuallyexclusive or anything, but I, I,
for whatever reason.
At 20 books I decided everytime I was drinking I would have
(40:53):
a British accent and thisBritish publicer found that not
off-putting.
My husband showed it and wasvery embarrassed Having a
British accent every time Iwould drink and ended up with a
British publisher.
So he told me that that's notrelated and I should not do that
, and probably the Brits arejust good at dealing with
(41:15):
nonsense and rubbish.
So that's not related.
And it wasn't my terribleaccent that got me a publishing
deal, but who knows.
Speaker 1 (41:23):
No, that's true.
I will say, though, that theeditor was drinking too, so that
maybe she just was doing anAmerican accent every time she
was drinking.
I don't know, so it's like, butI'm excited to read that book
because I also devourpsychological fiction.
I read a lot of it, and theBrits are great at it.
Oh yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (41:46):
So so, given so, leading into that, then, um,
you've done so much indiepublishing and you've done
traditional publishing and youhave multiple pen names, and how
do you actually go about makingthe decision of what project is
produced, which way, if thatmakes sense?
Yeah, like, what's your thoughtprocess behind that?
How do you approach that?
Speaker 3 (42:07):
Um, it's actually a lot of.
It is mental health centered.
So I also have four books withKensington under Melissa Storm,
women's fiction, and that'swhere my New York Times came
from my letters they put theydecided to put me in a
collection with Fern Michaelsand usually these collections do
well but don't hit the New YorkTimes list.
(42:29):
Well, this book was called HomeSweet Home and came out the
first week of quarantine forCOVID when everyone was buying
toilet paper.
It hit mass market paperbackbestseller list because home
sweet home when you're stuck athome, great, I'll read this
while I'm using all this toiletpaper.
Speaker 1 (42:46):
Not for toilet paper.
Speaker 2 (42:48):
Yeah, I was gonna say let's not make that connection
too strongly.
Speaker 3 (42:52):
It was a really happy accident and at the same time,
while there's dark and light andeverything like at the same
time, the fact my that was theprequel and book one was
launching a month later and itwas sickly.
It was about, uh, kids who havelost their parents to cancer,
adult children who form asupport group.
Nobody wanted that at thebeginning of COVID and my first
(43:13):
big book tour as a trad authorcanceled.
Oh, so COVID was good and bad.
Good and bad for my trad career, no regrets for sure.
And I hadn't signed anothercontract yet until I met with
Jaffe.
I always knew that if I wasgoing to write a psych thriller
I would want to need a publisher, because I knew it was the type
(43:35):
of book I wouldn't be able towrite fast.
I'd really have to be deep inmy brain and I would need
somebody to pull me out of it,Because I know it's a little bit
dangerous going into because ituses such psychological and
mental themes that I can accessa very, very dark place.
But it's not always safe and mypoor husband shouldn't have to
(43:56):
be the one every time.
He's the one most of the time.
But now it's my new editor'sjob, so that's why I made that
decision there.
Usually I like Indie because I'mnot a patient person.
So I write something and I wantit out immediately and I want
to talk about it immediately.
And if I don't publish itimmediately, I'll forget what
it's about because I've writtenthree other books in the
(44:16):
meantime.
And if I don't publish itimmediately, I'll forget what
it's about because I've writtenthree other books in the
meantime.
So I definitely have reasonsfor going trad, wanting the
support, wanting to hit adifferent audience or to write
like a bigger book, wanting tobe able to publish slower Most
of the time.
Indies are really great fit forme because I do love the
business side, but I really likehaving a balance and having
some projects in each.
(44:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (44:38):
Yeah, that's great.
We were kind of talking a littlebit before the show too about,
I think, that's.
I think personally that's wherethe market is going for authors
in particular, where there aregoing to be projects you're
going to want to do traditionaland there are going to be
projects you want to do indie.
And I think that's true forwhether you start out
traditional and go indie or viceversa you know, greta's also
(45:00):
got both and I haven't pitchedanything but it's certainly not
out of the realm of possibilityto go that route in the future.
I just think it makes so muchsense to have a process around
which you can decide thisproject needs the help because
it's dark, because it is in adifferent market, because it
doesn't fit the pen name thatI've already built, whatever
(45:22):
your reason is, but then beingable to do that so that, going
forward, you're making the bestdecision for your business as an
author and for your books asprojects, rather than just being
like, oh well, everybody shouldbe indie because it's the only
way you can make money.
I don't think that's a validreason anymore, or enough of a
reason.
Speaker 3 (45:40):
I think the weight of consequences change as you get
further in your career.
To like a first book or secondbook, that's a huge decision
into your tread because youdon't have the base built up and
you don't know what's going tohappen.
But I have around 150 books.
It's hard to say because thingsget pulled, republished, boxed
together.
You know I have some shorterworks 150-ish.
(46:01):
So just about one or two booksis not a life-changing decision.
So yes, choosing to dosomething different can be a
risk or a gamble.
I love gambling.
You met me in Vegas.
I don't gamble in real life,only with my career.
Speaker 1 (46:17):
Yeah, no, I think that's really true.
What you just said is that thedecisions are more pivotal in
the very beginning, like how youstart.
But once you get moving along,like deciding to, you know, oh,
I think I'll sign.
Well, I just signed a contractwith Tantor for audiobooks.
(46:38):
It's like, because I know I'mnot going to get to that, I know
that I'm not going to marketthem adequately if I were to do
it all by myself.
I just know me and I wouldrather let somebody else do that
, and I would be a nervous wrecktrying to pick the right
narrator.
And then I like people, so Iwouldn't want to tell somebody
no, you're not the rightnarrator.
(46:58):
That would just be awful for me.
So it's like, let somebody elsedo that and then I can work on.
Then it just frees up more timefor other projects.
Speaker 3 (47:07):
You know, I would say for me as a person with intense
anxiety, sometimes it's worthto take the risk and lose, just
so you can cross it off the listand you don't have to wonder
what if.
Speaker 1 (47:18):
Yeah, oh, you know what?
That's really good yeah.
Speaker 3 (47:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (47:22):
You definitely have an awfully a lot of wisdom,
melissa.
I think you could add a newbranch to novel marketing, and
it could be novel therapy.
Speaker 3 (47:32):
So I tell I primarily work with Facebook ads clients
and then I also do businessstrategy calls and I always tell
my clients, as a Facebook adspecialist, I actually have
three roles.
Number one is doing yourFacebook ads, number two is
discussing your strategy andnumber three is therapy.
Seriously, talk to me aboutanything.
Speaker 2 (47:53):
So, in other words, I need to go sign up to be one of
your clients, is what you'resaying?
Speaker 3 (47:58):
I mean, a lot of it is like so I'll have authors
come to me who have had a reallybad experience either with
another service provider ortried and failed on their own or
something's not connecting andthey're really hesitant to trust
and so I that it really is likea role of a therapist, of
teaching them to trust and howcan I earn their trust and and
(48:19):
soothe them so they feel goodabout this decision.
So I've gotten really good atthose things and then, like I
said, I do a lot of therapymyself.
Uh, therapy is awesome.
Yeah, I would recommend foreverybody.
I think we're like with Gen Zand Gen Alpha now.
I think it's like the standardand people really accepting of
that wasn't like that when I wasgrowing up in the 90s, but it
(48:40):
is now and that's a great thing.
Speaker 1 (48:42):
Yeah, yeah, I would agree.
I think we all need, if not aprofessional therapist if that's
not in somebody's you know,income or whatever.
Like good, wise people in yourlife that you can, that you
trust and you can cry on theirshoulder about anything is super
(49:03):
important.
Speaker 3 (49:04):
And, at the very least, robot therapist.
Oh right.
Speaker 1 (49:08):
Chat, gpt and be your therapist too.
That's great.
So, melissa, why don't you telleverybody where they can find
out more about you your pennames, your novel publicity and
all the amazing things you do?
And that cute cat in your lap?
Speaker 3 (49:26):
Okay, listeners cannot see the cute cat that
just jumped in Melissa's neckthe mean cat I warned you about
who might start a fight with mydog.
He'll just stay here and beadmired and not start anything.
Usa Today bestselling author,which is ridiculous, but he is.
It had both of our names on thebook because I wrote a
(49:47):
fictional biography about himand his name was the title, so I
consider that being him being aUSA Today.
Anyway, that's really funny.
Speaker 2 (49:55):
But that's great.
He's a big, beautiful, fluffycat and I'm just right in front
of this screen.
Speaker 3 (50:01):
Yes, so I'm an easy person to find.
You might know me as MelissaStorm or Molly Fitz.
My newest pen name is LunaRyder, but if you look up
Melissa Storm you will find meand Novel Publicity.
If you're interested in mybooks, you know free books for
signing up for everything NovelPublicity.
(50:22):
You can always book a call andsee.
And you can reach out to me insocial media.
I have a group on Facebookwhere I post free videos
whenever I feel like teachinganything.
I don't sell courses.
I used to.
I don't like doing it, I'drather just share stuff for free
.
So that group is out there.
I think it's called Facebookads and marketing mastery with
Melissa storm and one of mygoals that I made today is to
(50:46):
post in there once a week withshort videos.
So that's a really good placeto find me.
Novel publicity website isnovel publicitycom.
I just reorged and I did amajor sweep of the business
avail and current needs, so it'ssuper clean and nice and ready
for you to look at Awesome.
Speaker 1 (51:04):
Hey, all right.
Well, this has just beenamazingly good and given me so
much to think about.
So I'm sure that's true for allof you listeners.
And if you would like some moreclarity about who you are as a
writer and what you're doing andwhy you're doing it, we do have
a free seven-day course on ourwebsite Seven Days to Clarity.
(51:28):
Uncover your Author Purpose,and each day you'll get an email
that'll lead you toward writingan author business statement or
mission statement, excuse me,and then turning that mission
statement into a tagline.
And all of that is atauthorwheelcom.
So until next time, keep yourstories rolling.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
Ridiculous History
History is beautiful, brutal and, often, ridiculous. Join Ben Bowlin and Noel Brown as they dive into some of the weirdest stories from across the span of human civilization in Ridiculous History, a podcast by iHeartRadio.