June 3, 2024 • 48 mins
Do you have an intentional author brand?
If not, today's guest is bound to help. In fact, in this interview, she did an on-the-spot workshop with Megan, helping her rethink her own social media content strategy! If you want practical tips and real-world examples, you have to listen in on this one.
Melanie Herschorn wants to help you step into your spotlight as an authority. As a book marketing and publishing strategist for business owners, consultants, and speakers worldwide, she’s on a mission to support and empower her clients to share their message with the world. Her new book, Make a Big Impact with Your Book, is available now.
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Melanie Herschorn
Website: vipbookmarketing.com
Book: Make a Big Impact with Your Book
Facebook: @vipbookgroup
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The Author Wheel:
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Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/AuthorWheel
Greta Boris:
Website: www.GretaBoris.com
Facebook: @GretaBorisAuthor
Instagram: @GretaBoris
Megan Haskell:
Website: www.MeganHaskell.com
Facebook & Instagram: @MeganHaskellAuthor
TikTok: @AuthorMeganHaskell
FREE Mini Email Course
Have you ever struggled to explain to others exactly what you write? Or wondered which of the many fiction ideas running through your brain you should tackle? If so, The Author Wheel’s new mini-course might be your solution.
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Each daily email will lead you step by step in defining your author brand, crafting a mission statement, and distilling that statement into a pithy tagline. And, best of all, it’s free.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi everyone and welcome to the Author Wheel
podcast.
I'm Greta Boris, usa Todaybestselling mystery thriller
author.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
And I'm Megan Haskell , award-winning fantasy
adventure author, and togetherwe are the Author Wheel Today's
episode.
It was so much fun.
It kind of turned into a littlebit of a workshop of sorts with
author branding coach MelanieHirshhorn.
We tackled how to build amarketing plan that moves beyond
(00:28):
the book and how to create asocial media strategy for your
books, even if you have morethan one series, and what to
think about how to draw readersinto your world.
It was a really, really funconversation and a bit of a
surprise, because we don'tnormally get that hands-on in
the interviews, but it was.
It was fun.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
Yeah, we really dove into um Megan and Megan's books
and her series and she.
She got free um coaching, yeah,yeah, so it was kind of cool.
So you get to hear how howMelanie would work with somebody
, and it was kind of fun.
(01:07):
It was like an example of whatshe does rather than just
talking about what she doesExactly.
Yeah, it was good.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
But before we get into that interview, how was
your week, Greta?
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Good, so tomorrow the audio for To Die For goes live.
I'm really excited.
As I think I said last week,I'm not expecting a huge influx
of cash immediately, but it'sreally great to have an
audiobook to offer because thereis a large community of readers
(01:40):
who don't actually read anymore.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
Yeah Well, and I actually got an email not too
long ago from a reader listenerCause I have a couple audio
books out but I haven't finishedthe series and he was
explaining that he has glaucomaso he can't actually read but he
loves story and so he wasasking if my neck when my next
one was going to come out and Ihad to be like oh no, but you
know it was.
(02:03):
There's a lot of that and Ithink that's great to have that
accessibility for people.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
Well, and it's become me.
I mean, I'll read nonfiction,but for fiction, I'm now at the
point where I consume it almostexclusively in audio, because
our jobs are so sedentary youknow writing, and I'm staring at
a computer screen so much ofthe day that the idea of
relaxing by sitting and staringat a computer screen, or even at
(02:32):
a page it, doesn't work for meanymore.
So I like to be up on my feetand listening to stories, and so
I feel and you know so ifthere's books that I want to
read but they're not in audio, Idon't most of the time rarely.
So I feel like that's a wholenew potential audience for my
series.
You know people who eithercan't or won't like me read
(02:56):
anymore and just want to hearthe audio.
My job is just to figure outhow to find them, which is
always an issue, but I'm sureTantor Media has avenues and
ways that I don't.
So yeah, yeah, yeah.
So what's going on with you?
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Well, this is it.
As this airs, it's the lastweek of school for the girls.
They're so excited to be done.
It's amazing.
Definitely buddy for summer,and quite honestly so am I.
I need a little bit of a break.
So that actually brings me toanother note.
Today will be our lastinterview episode of season five
(03:40):
.
We are going to be taking abreak for the summer to rest,
recuperate, recharge andreorganize for the fall.
I was so proud of myself forthat alliteration.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
That's great.
You should.
You should be a church pastor.
They always do that stuff.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
Okay, well, maybe not Maybe not, I think.
I don't think that would bequite the best job for me, but I
do like alliteration Anyway.
But yeah, so we are taking thesummer off.
We will be back in the fall,but we do want to say thank you,
thank you, thank you to all ofour listeners, but especially to
(04:17):
the subscribers who havesupported the show in season
five.
We truly appreciate it.
Since we are going to bepausing new episodes and not
airing anything new for thesummer, we are also going to
turn off the subscriber payments.
So you know, when we come backwe will turn that back on and we
(04:37):
would certainly welcome yoursupport again, but we don't want
to charge anybody for oldcontent.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
Basically, but during the summer.
By the way, while we're notproducing new content if you
haven't already, we justrealized that we have over 100
episodes.
So, hey, you can go back andcatch up if you've missed some
of our old episodes, becausethere's some good ones in
(05:04):
seasons one and two.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
It's all timely stuff too.
I mean there's very little thatisn't evergreen, as they say.
You know, it's very little thatisn't current anymore, because
we do our best to try tointerview people about craft or
tools or services that are goingto be around for the long haul.
So, yeah, definitely.
I mean there's a pretty bigarchive these days.
So go back and take a listen.
(05:27):
So during the summer, we doencourage you to keep on writing
, keep on listening and we willsee you in the fall.
But now, before that, let's getinto the interview with Melanie
Hirshhorn.
Today we are excited to haveMelanie Hirshhorn on the show
Shorn.
Today we are excited to haveMelanie Hirshhorn on the show.
(05:47):
She wants to help you step intoyour spotlight as an authority,
as a book marketing andpublishing strategist for
business owners, consultants andspeakers worldwide.
She's on a mission to supportand empower her clients to share
their message with the world.
Her new book, make a Big Impactwith your Book, is available
now.
So welcome, melanie.
We're excited to have you onthe show.
Thank you so much.
I'm excited to be here.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
Hi, melanie, just thought I'd throw that in, so
everybody knows there's an extravoice here.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
So why don't you tell us a little bit about your
history?
I know we were talking a littlebit beforehand, but it's a
little bit different path fromsome of our typical fiction
author guests, which is excitingto have a new perspective on
the show.
Speaker 3 (06:31):
So I just have to say how in awe I am of fiction
authors, because I'm able towrite about what I know and what
I do every day.
But fiction authors create aworld and use their imagination
to bring things to life.
So I just wanted to give ashout out to all you fiction
authors out there.
Well, thank you.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
I know I couldn't do that.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
But what I can do is help with that branding piece of
it.
So how I got here was supernonlinear.
I started out as a publicist inHollywood and then I got my
master's in journalism and Iworked in broadcast journalism.
I worked on the radio, I was aradio news anchor and reporter
and then, when I was pregnantwith my first child, I got laid
(07:19):
off and had to kind of rework mywhole life.
What am I now?
I'm unemployed and unemployableand just so happened we were
moving a little bit while lateracross the country and I thought
, well, I can either, you know,pay a babysitter or a daycare
more money than I'll make as ajournalist, or I could do this
(07:40):
thing that's sort of tapping onmy heart which was to design and
manufacture breastfeedingclothing.
Oh, that's interesting.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
That's very, very different and cool.
Speaker 3 (07:51):
Thanks.
I like being different and cool.
I appreciate it.
So I didn't know what I wasdoing, but Google was my friend
and I learned all the things Ineeded to know and I sold my
clothes on Nordstromcom and onAmazon and in boutiques and you
know, it was really.
It was a great place to be.
It was.
It was, I would say, betterthan any business school I could
(08:15):
have gone to, because I learnedthings like on the job.
Unfortunately, what happened isI hired somebody to help me with
my marketing and even thoughshe was a consultant and I paid
her a lot of money, shebelittled me and it was a very
toxic relationship and afterabout a year I was basically a
(08:37):
shadow of my former self and Icould no longer even open my
home office door.
Oh my gosh.
And I said, all right, that'sit.
I got to.
I got to shut this business anddo something else, and so when
I took some time to regroup butnot a lot of time, because no
grass grows under my feet Ilooked at sort of my, the
(08:58):
trajectory of my career, thethrough line, and I realized
that amplifying people's voiceshad always been a very important
piece for me.
You know, when I was on theradio, I would find these people
who would not normally haveradio stories and I would get
them on the air.
And same thing with, you know,new moms.
They don't feel good aboutthemselves.
(09:20):
So what could I do to maketheir lives better?
So what could I do to maketheir lives better?
So when I decided that marketingwould be something that I could
help entrepreneurs with becauseI am a very supportive person
and I would always make themfeel like they could do it too
and when I sort of hung out, myproverbial shingle authors
(09:40):
started calling and children'sbook authors, nonfiction authors
, fiction authors and I went oh,there's something to this.
I can really help people oncethey get past that publishing
stage and once they get past thelaunch stage and they realize
that there isn't a plan for howto make this book something huge
(10:02):
.
So now I also am fortunate tobe able to publish some
nonfiction books as well.
So now I have a whole soup tonuts like write the book all the
way through, marketing the book.
But when we're talking aboutfiction authors specifically,
it's really about well, actuallyall authors.
It's really about having awonderful, recognizable,
(10:25):
memorable brand.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
Well, you're kind of preaching to the choir, because
we actually have a little course, a free course Seven Days to
Clarity.
Uncover your Author Purpose,which is basically figuring out
what you're writing, why you'rewriting it and coming up with a
tagline, and so we're very muchabout that.
A lot of writers don't thinkthose things through.
(10:47):
They just get inspired and theyget an idea and they write
their book, which is amazing andfabulous, and a lot of people
never get that far but then getdisappointed.
You're right, when the uploadhappens and you know, thousands
of people aren't flocking toAmazon or wherever to buy their
book.
You know.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
I had an interesting conversation not too long ago
with a friend who's a creativeprofessional, not a writer Well,
I guess he's a screenwriter,but not a fiction author not
published and we were talkingabout how creative professionals
in particular seem to have adifficult time because they can
(11:27):
often create the product, theycan write the book, they can do
whatever art form it is paintthe picture, whatever it is,
they can create the thing, butthen they often don't have the
skill set necessary to marketthat thing, to get on social
media, to be that sort of frontand center personality to you
(11:50):
know, ultimately sell andachieve their goals on a
financial level.
So how do you help developthose skills in the you know
creative professionals that youwork with?
Speaker 3 (12:02):
You cannot see the label when you're inside the
bottle, it is very difficult todo your own marketing.
You're just too close to it.
I have a coach that helps mewith my marketing because I am
too close to it and sometimes Isay, well, I don't even know how
(12:24):
to say this, how can I even saythis?
I just don't know.
And yet when I'm working withan author, it's so clear to me
as day.
It's as though I'm looking atit written all over their face
on the Zoom call.
So how I help is by, first ofall, helping them clarify what
their message really is, andsometimes people don't know.
(12:47):
They say, well, I wrote thisbook because I had to write it.
Or I wrote this book because Iwant to help people.
And while that's noble, it'ssuper vague.
And so we want to be reallyclear about what the mission is,
and then from there we work onhow to share that mission with
the world.
(13:07):
And then, once you sort of haveyour sometimes it's called an
author platform, but that to me,is just super vague also.
So, basically, looking at yourmarketing foundation, when
somebody finds you online, arethey going to know what you do?
Are they going to know that youeven wrote a book, because if
it's not on your Facebook,they're not going to know.
(13:30):
People aren't mind readers.
So making sure that everythingthat you put out in the world,
or at least in the on theinternet is, is uniform and
clear.
And then, going from there, it'slike how do you leverage other
people's audiences?
So I'm going to be super metafor a second.
I keep saying super today.
(13:50):
I don't know why I'm going tobe meta for a second.
So I get to leverage youraudience because here we are on
a wonderful podcast and you weregracious enough to have me on
as a guest and you have theseincredible listeners who are the
people I want to talk to.
You've already grown youraudience.
(14:13):
Your audience is filled withauthors and those are the people
that I want to reach.
So that's so leveraging otherpeople's audiences to get the
word out about your book.
It could be a podcast, it couldbe speaking, it could be media
opportunities.
So it's all of that fun stuff.
And then you know, creatingother avenues of investment,
(14:35):
getting a return on yourinvestment.
So maybe, like you said, youhave a course.
So right now I'm working withone of my authors.
She's a children's book authorand we're creating a course on
how to find an illustrator foryour book.
So there are other ways, youknow.
You just have to kind of thinkoutside the box.
How can I make money based onthe fact that I am an author, in
(14:58):
addition to selling the book?
Speaker 1 (15:01):
So what would you say is the biggest roadblock to
success that you see in thepeople that you work with?
Speaker 3 (15:10):
The biggest roadblock is ourselves.
We get in our own way every day.
I do it, I'm guilty of it and Isee it.
All the time.
We think, well, okay, I gotmyself this far.
There's always something youknow outside noise, Somebody
(15:32):
said something, a bad review Iwas mentioning to you before we
got on here.
I got a scathing book review acouple of weeks ago.
Not only did the person whoreviewed my book say that my
book was not worth reading, thisperson also insulted me as a
person and I well, first I readit, got very angry, and then I
(15:58):
sat in my car and sobbed, justsobbed, and then I got up and I
kept going and I said, all right, well, this person clearly got
triggered.
So there's so many things wehave to deal with as authors and
I think that once you're veryclear on your mission and you
(16:20):
keep reminding yourself of that,that's how you keep going
forward.
So step out of your own way,Remember that your mission is
outside of you and keep going.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
That's really.
First of all, I'm sorry that yougot that review.
I think we all have some kind ofstory like that, because we do
again, when you're creatingsomething, you put yourself into
it, you put it out there andthen it's up to the other people
on the other side of the screenor the book or whatever, to
actually interpret that.
(16:51):
It doesn't always go well.
Like you said, you triggered,you triggered something, but you
can't control that.
So I love the idea of sort ofreminding yourself of your
purpose, of your mission, andgoing back to that mission
statement, if you have one, oryour your tagline, if you have
one, and like reminding yourselfof what it is that you're
(17:14):
you're trying to do, um, becausemindset is so important in
probably any job, I guess, but Ifeel like, especially for
creatives, where we, you know,have so much emotionally
invested into the product thatwe're creating, um, so do you do
coaching around mindset?
(17:35):
Is that part of kind of thismarketing process for you?
Or how much do you actually?
Or how do you help authors getout of their own way?
Speaker 3 (17:44):
Oh, you know, I wouldn't say, you know, I'm not
an accredited coach, but Icertainly do it every single day
.
It's just I want to say I'mmore of like a supportive friend
who will show you that you cando this.
So how do I help authors getout of their own way is by
(18:07):
showing them what is right infront of them that they can't
see.
I had a sales call the otherday with an author and she said
you know, I know all thesethings, but I just can't seem to
get them moving forward.
And I said to her well, why now?
You know, if you can't getyourself out of this sort of
(18:29):
cycle, then why would you do it?
Why would you do something now?
Why are you meeting with me nowof cycle, then why would you do
it?
Why would you do something now?
Why are you meeting with me now?
And she said because I reallybelieve in this book.
So sometimes you just have toget them to get out of their own
head and see what, see what thefacts really are.
You know, when we tellourselves all these stories, we
get caught up in the stories.
(18:49):
I heard something a coupleweeks ago and it was so profound
.
It was like, when you startrunning through something
through your head, you're like Ihave to do something and you
run through how the process isgoing to work by the time you
get to it.
You've done it several timesalready.
So our minds are so amazing andalso they sometimes sabotage us
(19:12):
.
Amazing and also they sometimessabotage us.
So really being a supportiveperson and also being honest, I
very much about here's why thismay not work, but here is
something that could work.
Speaker 1 (19:28):
Yeah, Well, that is true, and I do think that
getting out of our own heads isdifficult and it does help to
have somebody to talk you out ofit or show you a different
perspective.
And you know we do.
You work with a lot ofnonfiction authors and I know,
(19:57):
often nonfiction authors arewriting books to support their
business versus somebody whojust is trying to create an
author career writing fiction ornonfiction or whatever.
They already have a career andthe book is there to support
that.
Do you find that that's sort ofa different?
(20:20):
We weren't gonna use the wordplatform, so I'm running out of
words here, but do you find thatyou kind of coach them in a
different way, that they have tocreate a different kind of a
marketing foundation?
There you go that's the wordyou used.
A different kind of a marketingfoundation.
There you go that's the wordyou used A different kind of
marketing foundation than, say,a children's book author.
And in what ways is itdifferent?
(20:42):
How would you coach themdifferently?
Speaker 3 (20:44):
These are really great questions.
You see, normally I just sortof go blah, blah, blah, blah,
blah, but no, I okay.
So in my brain it's everysingle author, no matter what
they've written, is unique, andso I approach each author's
(21:08):
marketing marketing in a neverthe same as somebody else.
So the way it's different,obviously, is that the fiction
author is looking to sell thebook.
That's the goal, right.
Yeah, nonfiction author whilethey may want to sell the book,
(21:33):
they know that they can leveragethat book to get new clients or
to get on stages.
And the children's book author,it's kind of a hybrid of both,
because they want to sell books,but they also want to maybe
speak or go to schools and dopresentations and talks and
stuff like that.
So, no matter what kind of anauthor you are, you want to be
(21:57):
clear with your marketingfoundation.
So whether you are a fictionauthor who's created this world
on Mars, let people know that.
That's what you're all about.
Or you're an attorney who workswith families, then let people
(22:19):
know about that.
So I think that the similarityis that the messaging needs to
be clear, whatever that messageis, so that people know why
they're here and what you can dofor them and I'm going to give
you a couple of examples.
I'll give you an example of howit works and an example of how
(22:41):
it doesn't work.
So I had a client and he wrotea book about olive oil and very
interesting, and we created hismarketing foundation.
Then he worked with a publicistand he was on the Kelly
Clarkson show and that show hasan audience of 2 million people
every episode that's theiraverage and so overnight his
(23:05):
Instagram followers doubled morethan doubled, because the
people watching TV we all dothis we watch TV with our phones
, we're doing something on ourphones while watching.
So they saw him on televisionand they went to Instagram to
check him out to verify that hewas the real deal.
And he was.
He is On the other side of that.
(23:28):
I once met with an author whohad hired a publicist and she'd
been on many different platformsand I know we use the word
platform, but media outlets iswhat I really meant and
including a national daytimetalk show, morning show and when
I met with her I said how manybooks have you sold?
(23:49):
And she said 100.
And that was over the course ofan entire year working with a
reputable PR firm.
And so I went oh okay, well,let's figure out.
You know, put on my doctoruniform and I'm like I'm going
to diagnose this Sure enough.
Get to her website no idea whatshe does or who she is.
(24:12):
Get to her Facebook no idea,she even has a book.
So the kind of book you havedoesn't negate the fact that you
want to have a marketingfoundation so that people can
find you online, because wedon't just see you in one place
and then that's it.
You know, it takes somethinglike 20 touch points for people
(24:36):
to even make a purchase.
So the more people can get toknow you and what you're all
about and I'm not saying youhave to, you know, air your
dirty laundry on Instagram.
I'm just saying they need toknow what you're all about, what
your books are all about Thenthey can say oh, I saw this,
this looks so interesting.
Where did I see it again?
(24:56):
Oh, it was over there.
And the more it gets into ourbrains, the more likely we are
to actually go and buy the thing.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
So I have a kind of interesting question then, I
guess, because one of the piecesof advice that I mean this is
probably a little bit old I'mprobably dating myself a little
bit, but the old piece of piecesof advice for social media was
that you're supposed to post,for every one book post that you
made, you were supposed to, youknow, make you know eight or
(25:28):
something, some, some number,some number, I don't know some
number of random number of likepersonal life posts or share
yourself for, like you know,other content that's not related
to your book, Right?
Because you don't want to belike buy my book, buy my book,
buy my book, right?
Um, so your advice here is I'minterpreting it kind of the
(25:49):
opposite that you want to havethat message around, like you
know, obviously not buy my book,buy my book, buy my book.
But that you want to have thatmessage around, like you know,
obviously not buy my book, mybook, buy my book.
But that you want to have thethrough line of yes, I have a
book, this is my topic, this isthe thing that I do, this is
what it is, and to have thatthrough line on your I mean,
let's use Instagram as theexample.
So on your profile, whensomebody is scanning through
(26:11):
your things, so are yousuggesting that you have maybe
less life?
That's not related to that book, sort of information or like to
what extent do you recommend afiction author in particular,
since that tends to be more ofour audience, but recommend that
they sort of curate that feedspecifically toward their book?
(26:35):
Does that make sense?
Like?
Speaker 3 (26:37):
it makes perfect sense.
So the 80-20 rule what do theycall it?
The Pareto principle orsomething?
Okay, so, yeah.
So the 80-20 rule says 80%value, 20% sales.
So sure, on 20% of your feedyou can say like hey, did you
see my book?
Here it is, grab a copy,awesome.
(26:58):
But the other 80% you stillwanna show people why they
should want to buy your book,even if you're not outright
saying it.
But pictures of you ridinghorses, if your book is not
about horses isn't going to makeany sense or help you create a
(27:21):
following.
So can you give me an exampleof a fiction book and then we
can, kind of you know, figureout what a feed might look like.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
We can use mine.
Sure, all right, give me thehigh level what?
your book's about.
Okay, so my current series thatI'm working on right now is the
Rise of Lilith series.
It's portal fantasy and thebasic pitch is that she's a
(27:53):
Laguna Beach bartender who cansee the demon on your shoulder
and she knows exactly what youdesire.
So she's going to serve it toyou in a cocktail.
But she also has the ability tosee, interact with and travel
to the realm of the gods.
So through the course of theseries she has to rescue various
people from the ancient gods ofvarious different mythological
(28:16):
pantheons.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
Who are almost all dastardly.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
Yeah, they're almost all dastardly, or at least
they're messing with people.
You know, sometimes it's youknow, they kind of see people as
dispensable or energy sources.
Speaker 3 (28:30):
Okay, yeah.
So here's what I would do.
You talked about a bartender,so go to bars.
Take pictures of you at bars.
Go to the beach, take picturesof you on the beach.
Other pictures, your book onthe beach.
Get people into the feeling ofwhat the series is about, and
(28:54):
you don't have to say this bookis about this.
You know everything you justsaid.
You can say you know the sunsetis just captivating on the
beach today.
I wonder what.
What's her?
Is her name Lilith Lil?
Yeah, lil Lil.
I wonder what Lil would bethinking right now.
What's your favorite beach tolay out?
(29:15):
On Drinks, you could talk aboutspecific drinks.
I don't know if there arecertain drinks that bring out
more demons.
You can do a recipe aboutdrinks.
You could talk about beachesand talk about going to a black
rock beach in Greece, somethinglike that.
And so you're creating thisworld on your Instagram, but
(29:40):
you're not saying buy the book.
You're creating a feeling,something that people are going
to want to join.
And then you talked about themythological creatures.
Are they based in any like?
Did you make them up or didthey?
Speaker 2 (29:55):
Oh, no, they're they're all based like.
The first book is mostly Norsewith a little bit of Greek.
The second one is Greek withwith Egyptian this.
The third one I'm working onright now is actually Aztec
mythology, so I try toincorporate all the different
pantheons, but they're all basedin to some extent in actual
myths that if you go Google themyou'll find them.
Speaker 3 (30:16):
All right.
So what if you did a wholeseries on your Instagram, like
once a week?
You talk about what this mythis.
That's interesting and it allleads back to the series.
But what we've done is we'vemade it more than the book.
We've created this whole sortof world that people can join
into and then, if they reallywant to get the book We've
created this whole sort of worldthat people can join into and
then, if they really want to getthe book, they'll be like oh
(30:38):
well, I already know Megan,because she's on this beach and
she's, you know, got this drinkand look at that cool
mythological creature story.
I'm going to get her book Loveit, yeah, love it.
Speaker 1 (30:49):
All right, I'm taking notes.
Speaker 2 (30:50):
Love it, yeah, love it, all right.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
I'm taking notes.
No, I really think that that'swhat you just said too.
It's like you're creating anenvironment, a world for people
to enter into, and when they'rein that world, the book then
becomes a part of a bigger world, which is a world within a
world, because fiction bookswe're creating worlds.
So I mean this is a worldwithin a world because fiction
books were creating worlds.
(31:14):
So I mean this is just blowingmy mind.
I've got to go spend time onInstagram, which I don't I
terribly ignore Instagram.
It's awful, yeah, I agree withthat, and that is all.
Even newsletters, like you know,one thing that most authors are
encouraged to do is start amailing list and get your
(31:35):
newsletter out there, and then,especially fiction authors, kind
of scratch their heads and gobut what do I write about in my
newsletter?
You know, if I don't have adeal, if I don't have a book on
sale, if I don't have somethinglike that, what do I even write
about it?
If I don't have something likethat, what do I even write about
it?
But people aren't signing up.
They're signing up for yournewsletter because, yeah, they
(31:59):
want to know when your books ornew books are coming out or
there's a sale, but they alsowant to know more about the mind
that created this world thatthey love, you know.
And so that was one thing thatI noted that when I put in I
always do, after I release a newbook, I always do a newsletter.
That's sort of like a fact checkwhat things were true and what
(32:23):
things I completely made up andyou know, and so it's basically
I'm giving them some of mysource material.
Well, I did this research, thisthing is true, and then I what
if'd it and created this overhere.
And this is not true.
My readers really like that.
So those kinds of things wherethey can see what's what was in
your mind, what, where did thatbook originate?
(32:45):
You know where'd it come from?
So that's really good and I'msure it's true.
For so I think it's a littlebit easier for nonfiction.
Like so, say, you were anutritionist and you wrote a
book on nutrition Fancy that youknow just showing recipes and
you know giving expert tips orwhere to buy a different food
(33:08):
and what's the nutritional valueof, you know, steel cut oats
versus rolled oats or all thosekind of things that people are
feeling like they're gettingmore value.
Yes, but Okay.
Speaker 3 (33:26):
See how you rolled that, like it just came off out
of your brain really fast.
You're like we'll just do thisand this and this and this, so
then what they're up against issameness.
How do they differentiatethemselves from other
nutritionists who wrote a bookon nutrition and steel cut oats
(33:46):
and all that stuff, whereas Iwas gonna say, if you're a
fiction author, you've created aworld that does not exist
anywhere.
Nobody else is doing it.
So you know how we kind of drewin elements from reality.
That helps you stand out,because I don't think other
(34:07):
fiction authors are going to dothat.
But in that sense, yes, intheory it's easier, it's more
straightforward.
It takes a little less outsidethe box thinking to come up with
a marketing for nonfiction.
Speaker 1 (34:22):
But I can see your point in that.
It is you know, how do youdifferentiate yourself from the
thousand other people who aretalking about nutrition Like
what's the Billion?
Yeah, what's your?
Speaker 3 (34:36):
hook Right, and that's you know, and it's
millions, right, like millionsof books are published.
Speaker 2 (34:48):
So, yeah, well, so I guess you know.
So you have the on the one side, you have the, the struggle
with sameness or or standing outfrom the crowd.
A fiction author also haspotentially a problem of.
You know, maybe they write likeme, like I have.
You know, I write fantasy, butmy two series that I have are
very different.
Actually, like, even thoughthere are elements that are
similar, I still bring in somemethodological creatures so that
could still pull through, butit's mostly secondary world.
(35:11):
It has elves instead of gods.
You know, like the other series, they're two very different
series.
So, again, like, thinkingthrough your broad messaging,
how do you like, what do youlook for to tie those pieces
together?
Speaker 3 (35:27):
Yeah, why are you writing those books about elves
and gods?
Speaker 2 (35:32):
Because I like fantasy, I mean it's, it's no.
So my tagline, if you want to,if you want to get into it, my
tagline is escape into myth,magic and mayhem.
So again, this goes back to the, our little seven day course
that we, that we teach, but it'screating we.
You know, we've gone throughthat mission statement creation
process and that's my tagline.
(35:53):
That is the end result.
So it's the myth escape to intomyth, magic and mayhem.
Speaker 3 (35:58):
Well then, your three pillars of that are myth, magic
, mayhem.
So where does each post fit in?
Speaker 2 (36:07):
So curating your posts then, so that you're
always hitting those pieces?
So, always going back to yourmission statement, Absolutely so
.
Speaker 1 (36:19):
Mine is murders that hit home.
So you have to murder people onmy Facebook page, I guess?
Speaker 3 (36:28):
Don't do that, don't do that, that.
I'm sure there are othercreative ways to show murder.
Speaker 1 (36:35):
Yeah oh no, and I try to do.
Yes, I.
I had one about gardening theother day and then I talked
about something about deadbodies being the best
fertilizers to me.
Like it was funny, but I havekind of dark humor posts that I
put up.
Speaker 3 (36:53):
That's great.
That's on brand, though.
That's fantastic.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
Yeah, and then home.
All my books are set inSouthern California, so I try to
put up a lot of things aboutwhere I live, the area I live in
Southern California, and I'msure I could be a lot more
creative than I am.
But it's also a time thing, foryou know, all this stuff takes
time, which is another reasonthat people sometimes want to
(37:21):
talk to someone like a Melanieor someone who can help them,
right, because it is a timeconsuming thing.
But I do love that likethinking, thinking about your
tagline or your missionstatement and keep going back to
that, and I'm sure that thatreally works with, say, back to
(37:43):
the nutritionist.
Like I knew a woman.
I my first book was called Wineand Chocolate Workout and it was
about a little bit aboutnutrition and a lot about
exercise and it was like obvious.
I mean, I just had wine andchocolate on everything, like it
just was constant wine andchocolate and that kind of began
.
I still have people today, eventhough I took that book off the
(38:03):
market.
It was a long time ago.
I've written many fiction bookssince that still call me the
wine and chocolate lady, so itdid stick.
So it is that and that was kindof unique, right, because I was
talking about weight loss andexercise, but I was also talking
about wine and chocolate.
So finding that place ofsurprise or something that
(38:26):
doesn't quite seem to work butit really does work, or those
kinds of things I think make forgood hooks.
I'm trying to lose that wineand chocolate you know thing and
I think I'm pretty close, but Istill have a couple of people
who like, no, I'm not the wineand chocolate workout anymore.
I still get texts for peoplewho want to know if I do group
(38:48):
personal training or onlyone-on-one.
I'm like no, I don't do thatanymore.
So I mean now, back then I feltlike I was failing and now they
keep coming after me.
It's like where were you 15years ago or 10 years ago?
(39:15):
One strong takeaway regardingreally finding that hook,
finding that brand, what wouldit be?
I know there's so many thingsand I could see the wheels
turning because I can see heraudience.
You can't.
The wheels are turning, but ifyou're just going to leave them
(39:36):
with one small tip or big tip,whatever medium sized tip,
whatever size tip you want, whatwould you say?
Speaker 3 (39:45):
So, when you are accessing that part of your
brain that gets, that's yourimagination, that part of your
brain that's your imagination,go back there and trust that you
have amazing ideas within you,because you created this from
nothing.
It did not exist before yourmind came up with it.
(40:09):
So I know that when you sit andquietly and you really take
some time for introspection andask what will really resonate
the most with the people that Iwrote this book for and I think
they'll get your answer- Well,that is good.
Speaker 2 (40:33):
I love that, though the trust yourself.
So I think that's one of thestruggles that a lot of creative
people regardless, again, ofmedium, but creative people have
is that we start to doubt ourwork.
We start to doubt whether it'sthe quality or the ideas or the
(40:54):
originality we get.
We develop this impostersyndrome, for lack of a better
term.
I mean, it's not quite thatsame that, like, experts get
when you know, but, but it'skind of the same thing.
It's like you just forget totrust yourself.
So do you have any like I don'tknow, like tips or mantras?
(41:15):
Like how do you encourage that,that self trust when you?
Speaker 3 (41:20):
look back at what you've already accomplished in
your life.
You have proof that you can dothis too.
Sometimes I look at J-Lo,because J-Lo was 36 or 37, I
think, or she was in her early30s before she made it big, and
(41:43):
so age shouldn't determine it.
It should really just be likeknowing who you are.
I think if you know who you areand I think authors especially
spend a lot of time in their ownheads, so you know what's going
on up there you know there's alot going on up there and that
(42:04):
you are probably smarter andmore capable than the average
bear, simply because you wereable to create this profound
work.
So just trust yourself, becauseyou've done it before you got
to where you are and it wasn'tan accident.
You know on a very small scale.
Again, I'm sorry that theaudience can't see this, but my
(42:28):
daughter, who's 12, made this.
Speaker 2 (42:30):
Oh my gosh, it's beautiful, beautiful so for
everybody who can't see thebeautiful picture, it's a
raccoon looks like on a on atree.
But is it?
Is it foil metallic or is it?
Speaker 3 (42:41):
yeah, so it's the scratch so it's a book.
And then she scratched it sothat the raccoon is is silver,
oh my gosh.
So she came home with this twodays ago and she said and she's
an ultra creative, my kiddo.
She said other peoplecomplimented my friends on
theirs and I think mine is bad.
(43:02):
And I said this is the mostbeautiful raccoon I've ever seen
and I don't like raccoonsbecause they eat garbage.
And she said but how do I knowit's good?
What if I'm just bad?
And she went into that wholespiral right and creative people
(43:22):
.
We do that because one badreview, one negative comment or
one noniment is enough to sendus over the edge in the wrong
direction.
So the reason I bring this upis to say that nobody's immune.
But if you surround yourselfwith people who will build you
(43:44):
up, that can really help.
Speaker 1 (43:45):
Yeah, yeah, and sometimes you have to vote
people off your island too.
Amen to that.
You know, when you havenaysayers and people who are
discouraging, yeah, I, it is it.
But I do love what you saidabout looking back, because you
know I always have.
I tend to have a mid book,usually somewhere between a
(44:10):
one-third point to thetwo-thirds point, or twice.
At the one-third or thetwo-third, I decide that this is
the stupidest book in the worldand nobody's ever going to read
it.
And I've done that now for Idon't know 14 books.
But because I've done it somany times, I now the thoughts
(44:31):
come, the emotions come and Isay, yeah, this is the way I
felt.
The last book and that book,you know, has got 600 and
something five-star review orfour and five-star reviews.
So people are liking that book.
So just settle down like, talkto yourself, settle down, girl,
and sit back and breathe andfigure out.
(44:53):
You go through this every time.
It's just something isn'tworking.
Figure out what isn't working,you will figure it out and then
you can move on.
But you're right if you don'tstop and you just give in to the
negativity and the panic.
But it gets easier, is my point, like you said, looking back,
because I've done that so manytimes now I can look back and
(45:14):
say, yep, I did it and I pushedthrough and I wrote the book and
published it.
I did it and I wrote the bookand published it.
I did it, I wrote the book.
And each time it proves to methat, yes, there is a path
forward.
So, and that is, you know, it'sgood to look ahead, but
sometimes it's really helpful tolook back to and see how far
(45:35):
you come.
So I love that.
And, on that encouraging note,why don't you tell everybody
where they can find out moreabout you and all the things
that you offer?
Speaker 3 (45:46):
Absolutely so.
My website isVIPbookmarketingcom and I have a
fun little ultimate bookmarketing checklist there that
you can grab for free.
It'll really kind of give youthe steps of how to market your
book Like, so you know what isahead of you.
Speaker 1 (46:04):
That is great.
And a checklist everybody lovesa checklist.
So we will have that link inthe show notes and for all you
listeners out there.
If you enjoyed this episode, wewould really appreciate it if
you consider sponsoring the showfor as little as three dollars
a month, it will help us keepthe lights on and keep things
(46:26):
moving forward.
Also, if you do sponsor theshow, we will be very happy to
tell the world about your bookor your book services or
whatever you have out there forauthors, and give you a shout
out on the podcast, and thatlink is also in the show notes.
(46:46):
So thank you in advance foryour support and consider
sending a link to your favoriteepisode to an author friend.
Until next time, keep yourstories rolling.
Hi everyone and welcome to the Author Wheel
podcast.
I'm Greta Boris, usa Todaybestselling mystery thriller
author.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
And I'm Megan Haskell , award-winning fantasy
adventure author, and togetherwe are the Author Wheel Today's
episode.
It was so much fun.
It kind of turned into a littlebit of a workshop of sorts with
author branding coach MelanieHirshhorn.
We tackled how to build amarketing plan that moves beyond
(00:28):
the book and how to create asocial media strategy for your
books, even if you have morethan one series, and what to
think about how to draw readersinto your world.
It was a really, really funconversation and a bit of a
surprise, because we don'tnormally get that hands-on in
the interviews, but it was.
It was fun.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
Yeah, we really dove into um Megan and Megan's books
and her series and she.
She got free um coaching, yeah,yeah, so it was kind of cool.
So you get to hear how howMelanie would work with somebody
, and it was kind of fun.
(01:07):
It was like an example of whatshe does rather than just
talking about what she doesExactly.
Yeah, it was good.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
But before we get into that interview, how was
your week, Greta?
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Good, so tomorrow the audio for To Die For goes live.
I'm really excited.
As I think I said last week,I'm not expecting a huge influx
of cash immediately, but it'sreally great to have an
audiobook to offer because thereis a large community of readers
(01:40):
who don't actually read anymore.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
Yeah Well, and I actually got an email not too
long ago from a reader listenerCause I have a couple audio
books out but I haven't finishedthe series and he was
explaining that he has glaucomaso he can't actually read but he
loves story and so he wasasking if my neck when my next
one was going to come out and Ihad to be like oh no, but you
know it was.
(02:03):
There's a lot of that and Ithink that's great to have that
accessibility for people.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
Well, and it's become me.
I mean, I'll read nonfiction,but for fiction, I'm now at the
point where I consume it almostexclusively in audio, because
our jobs are so sedentary youknow writing, and I'm staring at
a computer screen so much ofthe day that the idea of
relaxing by sitting and staringat a computer screen, or even at
(02:32):
a page it, doesn't work for meanymore.
So I like to be up on my feetand listening to stories, and so
I feel and you know so ifthere's books that I want to
read but they're not in audio, Idon't most of the time rarely.
So I feel like that's a wholenew potential audience for my
series.
You know people who eithercan't or won't like me read
(02:56):
anymore and just want to hearthe audio.
My job is just to figure outhow to find them, which is
always an issue, but I'm sureTantor Media has avenues and
ways that I don't.
So yeah, yeah, yeah.
So what's going on with you?
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Well, this is it.
As this airs, it's the lastweek of school for the girls.
They're so excited to be done.
It's amazing.
Definitely buddy for summer,and quite honestly so am I.
I need a little bit of a break.
So that actually brings me toanother note.
Today will be our lastinterview episode of season five
(03:40):
.
We are going to be taking abreak for the summer to rest,
recuperate, recharge andreorganize for the fall.
I was so proud of myself forthat alliteration.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
That's great.
You should.
You should be a church pastor.
They always do that stuff.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
Okay, well, maybe not Maybe not, I think.
I don't think that would bequite the best job for me, but I
do like alliteration Anyway.
But yeah, so we are taking thesummer off.
We will be back in the fall,but we do want to say thank you,
thank you, thank you to all ofour listeners, but especially to
(04:17):
the subscribers who havesupported the show in season
five.
We truly appreciate it.
Since we are going to bepausing new episodes and not
airing anything new for thesummer, we are also going to
turn off the subscriber payments.
So you know, when we come backwe will turn that back on and we
(04:37):
would certainly welcome yoursupport again, but we don't want
to charge anybody for oldcontent.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
Basically, but during the summer.
By the way, while we're notproducing new content if you
haven't already, we justrealized that we have over 100
episodes.
So, hey, you can go back andcatch up if you've missed some
of our old episodes, becausethere's some good ones in
(05:04):
seasons one and two.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
It's all timely stuff too.
I mean there's very little thatisn't evergreen, as they say.
You know, it's very little thatisn't current anymore, because
we do our best to try tointerview people about craft or
tools or services that are goingto be around for the long haul.
So, yeah, definitely.
I mean there's a pretty bigarchive these days.
So go back and take a listen.
(05:27):
So during the summer, we doencourage you to keep on writing
, keep on listening and we willsee you in the fall.
But now, before that, let's getinto the interview with Melanie
Hirshhorn.
Today we are excited to haveMelanie Hirshhorn on the show
Shorn.
Today we are excited to haveMelanie Hirshhorn on the show.
(05:47):
She wants to help you step intoyour spotlight as an authority,
as a book marketing andpublishing strategist for
business owners, consultants andspeakers worldwide.
She's on a mission to supportand empower her clients to share
their message with the world.
Her new book, make a Big Impactwith your Book, is available
now.
So welcome, melanie.
We're excited to have you onthe show.
Thank you so much.
I'm excited to be here.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
Hi, melanie, just thought I'd throw that in, so
everybody knows there's an extravoice here.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
So why don't you tell us a little bit about your
history?
I know we were talking a littlebit beforehand, but it's a
little bit different path fromsome of our typical fiction
author guests, which is excitingto have a new perspective on
the show.
Speaker 3 (06:31):
So I just have to say how in awe I am of fiction
authors, because I'm able towrite about what I know and what
I do every day.
But fiction authors create aworld and use their imagination
to bring things to life.
So I just wanted to give ashout out to all you fiction
authors out there.
Well, thank you.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
I know I couldn't do that.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
But what I can do is help with that branding piece of
it.
So how I got here was supernonlinear.
I started out as a publicist inHollywood and then I got my
master's in journalism and Iworked in broadcast journalism.
I worked on the radio, I was aradio news anchor and reporter
and then, when I was pregnantwith my first child, I got laid
(07:19):
off and had to kind of rework mywhole life.
What am I now?
I'm unemployed and unemployableand just so happened we were
moving a little bit while lateracross the country and I thought
, well, I can either, you know,pay a babysitter or a daycare
more money than I'll make as ajournalist, or I could do this
(07:40):
thing that's sort of tapping onmy heart which was to design and
manufacture breastfeedingclothing.
Oh, that's interesting.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
That's very, very different and cool.
Speaker 3 (07:51):
Thanks.
I like being different and cool.
I appreciate it.
So I didn't know what I wasdoing, but Google was my friend
and I learned all the things Ineeded to know and I sold my
clothes on Nordstromcom and onAmazon and in boutiques and you
know, it was really.
It was a great place to be.
It was.
It was, I would say, betterthan any business school I could
(08:15):
have gone to, because I learnedthings like on the job.
Unfortunately, what happened isI hired somebody to help me with
my marketing and even thoughshe was a consultant and I paid
her a lot of money, shebelittled me and it was a very
toxic relationship and afterabout a year I was basically a
(08:37):
shadow of my former self and Icould no longer even open my
home office door.
Oh my gosh.
And I said, all right, that'sit.
I got to.
I got to shut this business anddo something else, and so when
I took some time to regroup butnot a lot of time, because no
grass grows under my feet Ilooked at sort of my, the
(08:58):
trajectory of my career, thethrough line, and I realized
that amplifying people's voiceshad always been a very important
piece for me.
You know, when I was on theradio, I would find these people
who would not normally haveradio stories and I would get
them on the air.
And same thing with, you know,new moms.
They don't feel good aboutthemselves.
(09:20):
So what could I do to maketheir lives better?
So what could I do to maketheir lives better?
So when I decided that marketingwould be something that I could
help entrepreneurs with becauseI am a very supportive person
and I would always make themfeel like they could do it too
and when I sort of hung out, myproverbial shingle authors
(09:40):
started calling and children'sbook authors, nonfiction authors
, fiction authors and I went oh,there's something to this.
I can really help people oncethey get past that publishing
stage and once they get past thelaunch stage and they realize
that there isn't a plan for howto make this book something huge
(10:02):
.
So now I also am fortunate tobe able to publish some
nonfiction books as well.
So now I have a whole soup tonuts like write the book all the
way through, marketing the book.
But when we're talking aboutfiction authors specifically,
it's really about well, actuallyall authors.
It's really about having awonderful, recognizable,
(10:25):
memorable brand.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
Well, you're kind of preaching to the choir, because
we actually have a little course, a free course Seven Days to
Clarity.
Uncover your Author Purpose,which is basically figuring out
what you're writing, why you'rewriting it and coming up with a
tagline, and so we're very muchabout that.
A lot of writers don't thinkthose things through.
(10:47):
They just get inspired and theyget an idea and they write
their book, which is amazing andfabulous, and a lot of people
never get that far but then getdisappointed.
You're right, when the uploadhappens and you know, thousands
of people aren't flocking toAmazon or wherever to buy their
book.
You know.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
I had an interesting conversation not too long ago
with a friend who's a creativeprofessional, not a writer Well,
I guess he's a screenwriter,but not a fiction author not
published and we were talkingabout how creative professionals
in particular seem to have adifficult time because they can
(11:27):
often create the product, theycan write the book, they can do
whatever art form it is paintthe picture, whatever it is,
they can create the thing, butthen they often don't have the
skill set necessary to marketthat thing, to get on social
media, to be that sort of frontand center personality to you
(11:50):
know, ultimately sell andachieve their goals on a
financial level.
So how do you help developthose skills in the you know
creative professionals that youwork with?
Speaker 3 (12:02):
You cannot see the label when you're inside the
bottle, it is very difficult todo your own marketing.
You're just too close to it.
I have a coach that helps mewith my marketing because I am
too close to it and sometimes Isay, well, I don't even know how
(12:24):
to say this, how can I even saythis?
I just don't know.
And yet when I'm working withan author, it's so clear to me
as day.
It's as though I'm looking atit written all over their face
on the Zoom call.
So how I help is by, first ofall, helping them clarify what
their message really is, andsometimes people don't know.
(12:47):
They say, well, I wrote thisbook because I had to write it.
Or I wrote this book because Iwant to help people.
And while that's noble, it'ssuper vague.
And so we want to be reallyclear about what the mission is,
and then from there we work onhow to share that mission with
the world.
(13:07):
And then, once you sort of haveyour sometimes it's called an
author platform, but that to me,is just super vague also.
So, basically, looking at yourmarketing foundation, when
somebody finds you online, arethey going to know what you do?
Are they going to know that youeven wrote a book, because if
it's not on your Facebook,they're not going to know.
(13:30):
People aren't mind readers.
So making sure that everythingthat you put out in the world,
or at least in the on theinternet is, is uniform and
clear.
And then, going from there, it'slike how do you leverage other
people's audiences?
So I'm going to be super metafor a second.
I keep saying super today.
(13:50):
I don't know why I'm going tobe meta for a second.
So I get to leverage youraudience because here we are on
a wonderful podcast and you weregracious enough to have me on
as a guest and you have theseincredible listeners who are the
people I want to talk to.
You've already grown youraudience.
(14:13):
Your audience is filled withauthors and those are the people
that I want to reach.
So that's so leveraging otherpeople's audiences to get the
word out about your book.
It could be a podcast, it couldbe speaking, it could be media
opportunities.
So it's all of that fun stuff.
And then you know, creatingother avenues of investment,
(14:35):
getting a return on yourinvestment.
So maybe, like you said, youhave a course.
So right now I'm working withone of my authors.
She's a children's book authorand we're creating a course on
how to find an illustrator foryour book.
So there are other ways, youknow.
You just have to kind of thinkoutside the box.
How can I make money based onthe fact that I am an author, in
(14:58):
addition to selling the book?
Speaker 1 (15:01):
So what would you say is the biggest roadblock to
success that you see in thepeople that you work with?
Speaker 3 (15:10):
The biggest roadblock is ourselves.
We get in our own way every day.
I do it, I'm guilty of it and Isee it.
All the time.
We think, well, okay, I gotmyself this far.
There's always something youknow outside noise, Somebody
(15:32):
said something, a bad review Iwas mentioning to you before we
got on here.
I got a scathing book review acouple of weeks ago.
Not only did the person whoreviewed my book say that my
book was not worth reading, thisperson also insulted me as a
person and I well, first I readit, got very angry, and then I
(15:58):
sat in my car and sobbed, justsobbed, and then I got up and I
kept going and I said, all right, well, this person clearly got
triggered.
So there's so many things wehave to deal with as authors and
I think that once you're veryclear on your mission and you
(16:20):
keep reminding yourself of that,that's how you keep going
forward.
So step out of your own way,Remember that your mission is
outside of you and keep going.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
That's really.
First of all, I'm sorry that yougot that review.
I think we all have some kind ofstory like that, because we do
again, when you're creatingsomething, you put yourself into
it, you put it out there andthen it's up to the other people
on the other side of the screenor the book or whatever, to
actually interpret that.
(16:51):
It doesn't always go well.
Like you said, you triggered,you triggered something, but you
can't control that.
So I love the idea of sort ofreminding yourself of your
purpose, of your mission, andgoing back to that mission
statement, if you have one, oryour your tagline, if you have
one, and like reminding yourselfof what it is that you're
(17:14):
you're trying to do, um, becausemindset is so important in
probably any job, I guess, but Ifeel like, especially for
creatives, where we, you know,have so much emotionally
invested into the product thatwe're creating, um, so do you do
coaching around mindset?
(17:35):
Is that part of kind of thismarketing process for you?
Or how much do you actually?
Or how do you help authors getout of their own way?
Speaker 3 (17:44):
Oh, you know, I wouldn't say, you know, I'm not
an accredited coach, but Icertainly do it every single day
.
It's just I want to say I'mmore of like a supportive friend
who will show you that you cando this.
So how do I help authors getout of their own way is by
(18:07):
showing them what is right infront of them that they can't
see.
I had a sales call the otherday with an author and she said
you know, I know all thesethings, but I just can't seem to
get them moving forward.
And I said to her well, why now?
You know, if you can't getyourself out of this sort of
(18:29):
cycle, then why would you do it?
Why would you do something now?
Why are you meeting with me nowof cycle, then why would you do
it?
Why would you do something now?
Why are you meeting with me now?
And she said because I reallybelieve in this book.
So sometimes you just have toget them to get out of their own
head and see what, see what thefacts really are.
You know, when we tellourselves all these stories, we
get caught up in the stories.
(18:49):
I heard something a coupleweeks ago and it was so profound
.
It was like, when you startrunning through something
through your head, you're like Ihave to do something and you
run through how the process isgoing to work by the time you
get to it.
You've done it several timesalready.
So our minds are so amazing andalso they sometimes sabotage us
(19:12):
.
Amazing and also they sometimessabotage us.
So really being a supportiveperson and also being honest, I
very much about here's why thismay not work, but here is
something that could work.
Speaker 1 (19:28):
Yeah, Well, that is true, and I do think that
getting out of our own heads isdifficult and it does help to
have somebody to talk you out ofit or show you a different
perspective.
And you know we do.
You work with a lot ofnonfiction authors and I know,
(19:57):
often nonfiction authors arewriting books to support their
business versus somebody whojust is trying to create an
author career writing fiction ornonfiction or whatever.
They already have a career andthe book is there to support
that.
Do you find that that's sort ofa different?
(20:20):
We weren't gonna use the wordplatform, so I'm running out of
words here, but do you find thatyou kind of coach them in a
different way, that they have tocreate a different kind of a
marketing foundation?
There you go that's the wordyou used.
A different kind of a marketingfoundation.
There you go that's the wordyou used A different kind of
marketing foundation than, say,a children's book author.
And in what ways is itdifferent?
(20:42):
How would you coach themdifferently?
Speaker 3 (20:44):
These are really great questions.
You see, normally I just sortof go blah, blah, blah, blah,
blah, but no, I okay.
So in my brain it's everysingle author, no matter what
they've written, is unique, andso I approach each author's
(21:08):
marketing marketing in a neverthe same as somebody else.
So the way it's different,obviously, is that the fiction
author is looking to sell thebook.
That's the goal, right.
Yeah, nonfiction author whilethey may want to sell the book,
(21:33):
they know that they can leveragethat book to get new clients or
to get on stages.
And the children's book author,it's kind of a hybrid of both,
because they want to sell books,but they also want to maybe
speak or go to schools and dopresentations and talks and
stuff like that.
So, no matter what kind of anauthor you are, you want to be
(21:57):
clear with your marketingfoundation.
So whether you are a fictionauthor who's created this world
on Mars, let people know that.
That's what you're all about.
Or you're an attorney who workswith families, then let people
(22:19):
know about that.
So I think that the similarityis that the messaging needs to
be clear, whatever that messageis, so that people know why
they're here and what you can dofor them and I'm going to give
you a couple of examples.
I'll give you an example of howit works and an example of how
(22:41):
it doesn't work.
So I had a client and he wrotea book about olive oil and very
interesting, and we created hismarketing foundation.
Then he worked with a publicistand he was on the Kelly
Clarkson show and that show hasan audience of 2 million people
every episode that's theiraverage and so overnight his
(23:05):
Instagram followers doubled morethan doubled, because the
people watching TV we all dothis we watch TV with our phones
, we're doing something on ourphones while watching.
So they saw him on televisionand they went to Instagram to
check him out to verify that hewas the real deal.
And he was.
He is On the other side of that.
(23:28):
I once met with an author whohad hired a publicist and she'd
been on many different platformsand I know we use the word
platform, but media outlets iswhat I really meant and
including a national daytimetalk show, morning show and when
I met with her I said how manybooks have you sold?
(23:49):
And she said 100.
And that was over the course ofan entire year working with a
reputable PR firm.
And so I went oh okay, well,let's figure out.
You know, put on my doctoruniform and I'm like I'm going
to diagnose this Sure enough.
Get to her website no idea whatshe does or who she is.
(24:12):
Get to her Facebook no idea,she even has a book.
So the kind of book you havedoesn't negate the fact that you
want to have a marketingfoundation so that people can
find you online, because wedon't just see you in one place
and then that's it.
You know, it takes somethinglike 20 touch points for people
(24:36):
to even make a purchase.
So the more people can get toknow you and what you're all
about and I'm not saying youhave to, you know, air your
dirty laundry on Instagram.
I'm just saying they need toknow what you're all about, what
your books are all about Thenthey can say oh, I saw this,
this looks so interesting.
Where did I see it again?
(24:56):
Oh, it was over there.
And the more it gets into ourbrains, the more likely we are
to actually go and buy the thing.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
So I have a kind of interesting question then, I
guess, because one of the piecesof advice that I mean this is
probably a little bit old I'mprobably dating myself a little
bit, but the old piece of piecesof advice for social media was
that you're supposed to post,for every one book post that you
made, you were supposed to, youknow, make you know eight or
(25:28):
something, some, some number,some number, I don't know some
number of random number of likepersonal life posts or share
yourself for, like you know,other content that's not related
to your book, Right?
Because you don't want to belike buy my book, buy my book,
buy my book, right?
Um, so your advice here is I'minterpreting it kind of the
(25:49):
opposite that you want to havethat message around, like you
know, obviously not buy my book,buy my book, buy my book.
But that you want to have thatmessage around, like you know,
obviously not buy my book, mybook, buy my book.
But that you want to have thethrough line of yes, I have a
book, this is my topic, this isthe thing that I do, this is
what it is, and to have thatthrough line on your I mean,
let's use Instagram as theexample.
So on your profile, whensomebody is scanning through
(26:11):
your things, so are yousuggesting that you have maybe
less life?
That's not related to that book, sort of information or like to
what extent do you recommend afiction author in particular,
since that tends to be more ofour audience, but recommend that
they sort of curate that feedspecifically toward their book?
(26:35):
Does that make sense?
Like?
Speaker 3 (26:37):
it makes perfect sense.
So the 80-20 rule what do theycall it?
The Pareto principle orsomething?
Okay, so, yeah.
So the 80-20 rule says 80%value, 20% sales.
So sure, on 20% of your feedyou can say like hey, did you
see my book?
Here it is, grab a copy,awesome.
(26:58):
But the other 80% you stillwanna show people why they
should want to buy your book,even if you're not outright
saying it.
But pictures of you ridinghorses, if your book is not
about horses isn't going to makeany sense or help you create a
(27:21):
following.
So can you give me an exampleof a fiction book and then we
can, kind of you know, figureout what a feed might look like.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
We can use mine.
Sure, all right, give me thehigh level what?
your book's about.
Okay, so my current series thatI'm working on right now is the
Rise of Lilith series.
It's portal fantasy and thebasic pitch is that she's a
(27:53):
Laguna Beach bartender who cansee the demon on your shoulder
and she knows exactly what youdesire.
So she's going to serve it toyou in a cocktail.
But she also has the ability tosee, interact with and travel
to the realm of the gods.
So through the course of theseries she has to rescue various
people from the ancient gods ofvarious different mythological
(28:16):
pantheons.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
Who are almost all dastardly.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
Yeah, they're almost all dastardly, or at least
they're messing with people.
You know, sometimes it's youknow, they kind of see people as
dispensable or energy sources.
Speaker 3 (28:30):
Okay, yeah.
So here's what I would do.
You talked about a bartender,so go to bars.
Take pictures of you at bars.
Go to the beach, take picturesof you on the beach.
Other pictures, your book onthe beach.
Get people into the feeling ofwhat the series is about, and
(28:54):
you don't have to say this bookis about this.
You know everything you justsaid.
You can say you know the sunsetis just captivating on the
beach today.
I wonder what.
What's her?
Is her name Lilith Lil?
Yeah, lil Lil.
I wonder what Lil would bethinking right now.
What's your favorite beach tolay out?
(29:15):
On Drinks, you could talk aboutspecific drinks.
I don't know if there arecertain drinks that bring out
more demons.
You can do a recipe aboutdrinks.
You could talk about beachesand talk about going to a black
rock beach in Greece, somethinglike that.
And so you're creating thisworld on your Instagram, but
(29:40):
you're not saying buy the book.
You're creating a feeling,something that people are going
to want to join.
And then you talked about themythological creatures.
Are they based in any like?
Did you make them up or didthey?
Speaker 2 (29:55):
Oh, no, they're they're all based like.
The first book is mostly Norsewith a little bit of Greek.
The second one is Greek withwith Egyptian this.
The third one I'm working onright now is actually Aztec
mythology, so I try toincorporate all the different
pantheons, but they're all basedin to some extent in actual
myths that if you go Google themyou'll find them.
Speaker 3 (30:16):
All right.
So what if you did a wholeseries on your Instagram, like
once a week?
You talk about what this mythis.
That's interesting and it allleads back to the series.
But what we've done is we'vemade it more than the book.
We've created this whole sortof world that people can join
into and then, if they reallywant to get the book We've
created this whole sort of worldthat people can join into and
then, if they really want to getthe book, they'll be like oh
(30:38):
well, I already know Megan,because she's on this beach and
she's, you know, got this drinkand look at that cool
mythological creature story.
I'm going to get her book Loveit, yeah, love it.
Speaker 1 (30:49):
All right, I'm taking notes.
Speaker 2 (30:50):
Love it, yeah, love it, all right.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
I'm taking notes.
No, I really think that that'swhat you just said too.
It's like you're creating anenvironment, a world for people
to enter into, and when they'rein that world, the book then
becomes a part of a bigger world, which is a world within a
world, because fiction bookswe're creating worlds.
So I mean this is a worldwithin a world because fiction
books were creating worlds.
(31:14):
So I mean this is just blowingmy mind.
I've got to go spend time onInstagram, which I don't I
terribly ignore Instagram.
It's awful, yeah, I agree withthat, and that is all.
Even newsletters, like you know,one thing that most authors are
encouraged to do is start amailing list and get your
(31:35):
newsletter out there, and then,especially fiction authors, kind
of scratch their heads and gobut what do I write about in my
newsletter?
You know, if I don't have adeal, if I don't have a book on
sale, if I don't have somethinglike that, what do I even write
about it?
If I don't have something likethat, what do I even write about
it?
But people aren't signing up.
They're signing up for yournewsletter because, yeah, they
(31:59):
want to know when your books ornew books are coming out or
there's a sale, but they alsowant to know more about the mind
that created this world thatthey love, you know.
And so that was one thing thatI noted that when I put in I
always do, after I release a newbook, I always do a newsletter.
That's sort of like a fact checkwhat things were true and what
(32:23):
things I completely made up andyou know, and so it's basically
I'm giving them some of mysource material.
Well, I did this research, thisthing is true, and then I what
if'd it and created this overhere.
And this is not true.
My readers really like that.
So those kinds of things wherethey can see what's what was in
your mind, what, where did thatbook originate?
(32:45):
You know where'd it come from?
So that's really good and I'msure it's true.
For so I think it's a littlebit easier for nonfiction.
Like so, say, you were anutritionist and you wrote a
book on nutrition Fancy that youknow just showing recipes and
you know giving expert tips orwhere to buy a different food
(33:08):
and what's the nutritional valueof, you know, steel cut oats
versus rolled oats or all thosekind of things that people are
feeling like they're gettingmore value.
Yes, but Okay.
Speaker 3 (33:26):
See how you rolled that, like it just came off out
of your brain really fast.
You're like we'll just do thisand this and this and this, so
then what they're up against issameness.
How do they differentiatethemselves from other
nutritionists who wrote a bookon nutrition and steel cut oats
(33:46):
and all that stuff, whereas Iwas gonna say, if you're a
fiction author, you've created aworld that does not exist
anywhere.
Nobody else is doing it.
So you know how we kind of drewin elements from reality.
That helps you stand out,because I don't think other
(34:07):
fiction authors are going to dothat.
But in that sense, yes, intheory it's easier, it's more
straightforward.
It takes a little less outsidethe box thinking to come up with
a marketing for nonfiction.
Speaker 1 (34:22):
But I can see your point in that.
It is you know, how do youdifferentiate yourself from the
thousand other people who aretalking about nutrition Like
what's the Billion?
Yeah, what's your?
Speaker 3 (34:36):
hook Right, and that's you know, and it's
millions, right, like millionsof books are published.
Speaker 2 (34:48):
So, yeah, well, so I guess you know.
So you have the on the one side, you have the, the struggle
with sameness or or standing outfrom the crowd.
A fiction author also haspotentially a problem of.
You know, maybe they write likeme, like I have.
You know, I write fantasy, butmy two series that I have are
very different.
Actually, like, even thoughthere are elements that are
similar, I still bring in somemethodological creatures so that
could still pull through, butit's mostly secondary world.
(35:11):
It has elves instead of gods.
You know, like the other series, they're two very different
series.
So, again, like, thinkingthrough your broad messaging,
how do you like, what do youlook for to tie those pieces
together?
Speaker 3 (35:27):
Yeah, why are you writing those books about elves
and gods?
Speaker 2 (35:32):
Because I like fantasy, I mean it's, it's no.
So my tagline, if you want to,if you want to get into it, my
tagline is escape into myth,magic and mayhem.
So again, this goes back to the, our little seven day course
that we, that we teach, but it'screating we.
You know, we've gone throughthat mission statement creation
process and that's my tagline.
(35:53):
That is the end result.
So it's the myth escape to intomyth, magic and mayhem.
Speaker 3 (35:58):
Well then, your three pillars of that are myth, magic
, mayhem.
So where does each post fit in?
Speaker 2 (36:07):
So curating your posts then, so that you're
always hitting those pieces?
So, always going back to yourmission statement, Absolutely so
.
Speaker 1 (36:19):
Mine is murders that hit home.
So you have to murder people onmy Facebook page, I guess?
Speaker 3 (36:28):
Don't do that, don't do that, that.
I'm sure there are othercreative ways to show murder.
Speaker 1 (36:35):
Yeah oh no, and I try to do.
Yes, I.
I had one about gardening theother day and then I talked
about something about deadbodies being the best
fertilizers to me.
Like it was funny, but I havekind of dark humor posts that I
put up.
Speaker 3 (36:53):
That's great.
That's on brand, though.
That's fantastic.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
Yeah, and then home.
All my books are set inSouthern California, so I try to
put up a lot of things aboutwhere I live, the area I live in
Southern California, and I'msure I could be a lot more
creative than I am.
But it's also a time thing, foryou know, all this stuff takes
time, which is another reasonthat people sometimes want to
(37:21):
talk to someone like a Melanieor someone who can help them,
right, because it is a timeconsuming thing.
But I do love that likethinking, thinking about your
tagline or your missionstatement and keep going back to
that, and I'm sure that thatreally works with, say, back to
(37:43):
the nutritionist.
Like I knew a woman.
I my first book was called Wineand Chocolate Workout and it was
about a little bit aboutnutrition and a lot about
exercise and it was like obvious.
I mean, I just had wine andchocolate on everything, like it
just was constant wine andchocolate and that kind of began
.
I still have people today, eventhough I took that book off the
(38:03):
market.
It was a long time ago.
I've written many fiction bookssince that still call me the
wine and chocolate lady, so itdid stick.
So it is that and that was kindof unique, right, because I was
talking about weight loss andexercise, but I was also talking
about wine and chocolate.
So finding that place ofsurprise or something that
(38:26):
doesn't quite seem to work butit really does work, or those
kinds of things I think make forgood hooks.
I'm trying to lose that wineand chocolate you know thing and
I think I'm pretty close, but Istill have a couple of people
who like, no, I'm not the wineand chocolate workout anymore.
I still get texts for peoplewho want to know if I do group
(38:48):
personal training or onlyone-on-one.
I'm like no, I don't do thatanymore.
So I mean now, back then I feltlike I was failing and now they
keep coming after me.
It's like where were you 15years ago or 10 years ago?
(39:15):
One strong takeaway regardingreally finding that hook,
finding that brand, what wouldit be?
I know there's so many thingsand I could see the wheels
turning because I can see heraudience.
You can't.
The wheels are turning, but ifyou're just going to leave them
(39:36):
with one small tip or big tip,whatever medium sized tip,
whatever size tip you want, whatwould you say?
Speaker 3 (39:45):
So, when you are accessing that part of your
brain that gets, that's yourimagination, that part of your
brain that's your imagination,go back there and trust that you
have amazing ideas within you,because you created this from
nothing.
It did not exist before yourmind came up with it.
(40:09):
So I know that when you sit andquietly and you really take
some time for introspection andask what will really resonate
the most with the people that Iwrote this book for and I think
they'll get your answer- Well,that is good.
Speaker 2 (40:33):
I love that, though the trust yourself.
So I think that's one of thestruggles that a lot of creative
people regardless, again, ofmedium, but creative people have
is that we start to doubt ourwork.
We start to doubt whether it'sthe quality or the ideas or the
(40:54):
originality we get.
We develop this impostersyndrome, for lack of a better
term.
I mean, it's not quite thatsame that, like, experts get
when you know, but, but it'skind of the same thing.
It's like you just forget totrust yourself.
So do you have any like I don'tknow, like tips or mantras?
(41:15):
Like how do you encourage that,that self trust when you?
Speaker 3 (41:20):
look back at what you've already accomplished in
your life.
You have proof that you can dothis too.
Sometimes I look at J-Lo,because J-Lo was 36 or 37, I
think, or she was in her early30s before she made it big, and
(41:43):
so age shouldn't determine it.
It should really just be likeknowing who you are.
I think if you know who you areand I think authors especially
spend a lot of time in their ownheads, so you know what's going
on up there you know there's alot going on up there and that
(42:04):
you are probably smarter andmore capable than the average
bear, simply because you wereable to create this profound
work.
So just trust yourself, becauseyou've done it before you got
to where you are and it wasn'tan accident.
You know on a very small scale.
Again, I'm sorry that theaudience can't see this, but my
(42:28):
daughter, who's 12, made this.
Speaker 2 (42:30):
Oh my gosh, it's beautiful, beautiful so for
everybody who can't see thebeautiful picture, it's a
raccoon looks like on a on atree.
But is it?
Is it foil metallic or is it?
Speaker 3 (42:41):
yeah, so it's the scratch so it's a book.
And then she scratched it sothat the raccoon is is silver,
oh my gosh.
So she came home with this twodays ago and she said and she's
an ultra creative, my kiddo.
She said other peoplecomplimented my friends on
theirs and I think mine is bad.
(43:02):
And I said this is the mostbeautiful raccoon I've ever seen
and I don't like raccoonsbecause they eat garbage.
And she said but how do I knowit's good?
What if I'm just bad?
And she went into that wholespiral right and creative people
(43:22):
.
We do that because one badreview, one negative comment or
one noniment is enough to sendus over the edge in the wrong
direction.
So the reason I bring this upis to say that nobody's immune.
But if you surround yourselfwith people who will build you
(43:44):
up, that can really help.
Speaker 1 (43:45):
Yeah, yeah, and sometimes you have to vote
people off your island too.
Amen to that.
You know, when you havenaysayers and people who are
discouraging, yeah, I, it is it.
But I do love what you saidabout looking back, because you
know I always have.
I tend to have a mid book,usually somewhere between a
(44:10):
one-third point to thetwo-thirds point, or twice.
At the one-third or thetwo-third, I decide that this is
the stupidest book in the worldand nobody's ever going to read
it.
And I've done that now for Idon't know 14 books.
But because I've done it somany times, I now the thoughts
(44:31):
come, the emotions come and Isay, yeah, this is the way I
felt.
The last book and that book,you know, has got 600 and
something five-star review orfour and five-star reviews.
So people are liking that book.
So just settle down like, talkto yourself, settle down, girl,
and sit back and breathe andfigure out.
(44:53):
You go through this every time.
It's just something isn'tworking.
Figure out what isn't working,you will figure it out and then
you can move on.
But you're right if you don'tstop and you just give in to the
negativity and the panic.
But it gets easier, is my point, like you said, looking back,
because I've done that so manytimes now I can look back and
(45:14):
say, yep, I did it and I pushedthrough and I wrote the book and
published it.
I did it and I wrote the bookand published it.
I did it, I wrote the book.
And each time it proves to methat, yes, there is a path
forward.
So, and that is, you know, it'sgood to look ahead, but
sometimes it's really helpful tolook back to and see how far
(45:35):
you come.
So I love that.
And, on that encouraging note,why don't you tell everybody
where they can find out moreabout you and all the things
that you offer?
Speaker 3 (45:46):
Absolutely so.
My website isVIPbookmarketingcom and I have a
fun little ultimate bookmarketing checklist there that
you can grab for free.
It'll really kind of give youthe steps of how to market your
book Like, so you know what isahead of you.
Speaker 1 (46:04):
That is great.
And a checklist everybody lovesa checklist.
So we will have that link inthe show notes and for all you
listeners out there.
If you enjoyed this episode, wewould really appreciate it if
you consider sponsoring the showfor as little as three dollars
a month, it will help us keepthe lights on and keep things
(46:26):
moving forward.
Also, if you do sponsor theshow, we will be very happy to
tell the world about your bookor your book services or
whatever you have out there forauthors, and give you a shout
out on the podcast, and thatlink is also in the show notes.
(46:46):
So thank you in advance foryour support and consider
sending a link to your favoriteepisode to an author friend.
Until next time, keep yourstories rolling.
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