April 8, 2024 • 58 mins
Ever feel like your voice as an author gets lost in the crowd?
In this week's interview, Matty Dalrymple of the Indy Author Podcast joins us to talk all about podcasting for authors. If you've ever wondered what it takes to be on a podcast, or start your own, this is the episode for you. It's a conversation packed with practical tips and advice you won't want to miss.
Matty Dalrymple is the author of the Lizzy Ballard Thrillers, the Ann Kinnear Suspense Novels, and the Ann Kinnear Suspense Shorts. Matty also podcasts, writes, speaks, and consults on the writing craft and the publishing voyage as The Indy Author. She has written books on the business of short fiction and podcasting for authors, and her articles have appeared in Writer’s Digest magazine.
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Matty Dalrymple
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi everyone, Welcome to the Author Wheel podcast.
I'm Greta Boris, USA Todaybestselling mystery thriller
author.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
And I'm Megan Haskell , award-winning fantasy
adventure author.
Together we are the AuthorWheel.
We have a fantasticconversation coming up with
Maddie Dalrymple today onpodcasting for authors.
Maddie is the voice behind theIndie Author Podcast, which is a
fantastic resource for writers,both indie and traditional, and
she's also a good friend bothpersonally and professionally,
(00:29):
so this was a really funconversation.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
Yeah, maddie is, she is a true pro.
So she what we talked aboutbecause we've had her on the
show before, but what we'respecifically talking about today
with her is her new coachingbusiness that she has for
writers and authors who aretrying to become guests on
podcasts or start their ownpodcasts, and it's really great.
(00:56):
I did a coaching session withher.
I was kind of a guinea pig forher and she goes over how to
pitch and how to presentyourself and she really dials
down into details things thatnever occurred to me to think
about.
So it was super helpful.
She went over like technicalissues.
I was like, oh, you mean,there's technical issues.
(01:17):
She was like it was super, itwas really great.
But anyway, we get into this alot more in the podcast episode,
so I will stop talking about it.
And as far as what's going onwith me which you didn't ask me,
megan, but I know you weregoing to- I was about to yeah
(01:39):
yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
I guess I'm just too predictable, go figure.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
I'm just too predictable, go figure.
Yeah, exactly.
Well, it's not exciting, it'sjust as well.
It's kind of same old, same old.
The only sort of interestingthing that happened was I did
mention last month that thefirst book in my mortician
series was in a Kindle deal forthe month of March, so I thought
I would report back now thatthe month of March is over.
I did see a bump in sales.
(02:11):
It wasn't huge, but you knowthat little bit every single day
definitely added up when I sawmy final earnings for the month.
It did make a difference in myearnings for the month.
So, all that being said, I willdo it again, and if any of you
listeners are offered an AmazonKindle deal, I would totally try
it and see if it works for yourparticular series.
(02:34):
Nice, yeah, so that's mytakeaway on that and what is
happening with you, megan?
I hope it's more interestingthan me.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Well, to be totally honest, I kind of feel like a
chicken with my head cut offthis week, like I lost all of
Monday recovering from WonderCon.
I literally had to, like take ahuge nap and then I mean, it
was a fun event, I'm glad I didit, but still took a lot out of
me.
And then my kids are on springbreak this week and I'm taking
(03:07):
Friday off, so I'm working on areally short week to start with,
and then I'm also putting thefinishing touches on my
Kickstarter campaign for theLast Descendant, which is going
live next week.
I will yeah, I finally decidedto officially set the date, so
it'll run from April 9th throughthe 26th, so I'm like in the
(03:31):
ramp up for that and it's allcoming together.
It's all like the little teeny,tiny details now that have to
be fixed, but it always ends uptaking way more time than you
think it should.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
Yes, so yeah, and actually it will be this week by
the time this intro airs.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
Oh, that's true.
Yes, it will.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
Yes so.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Yeah, yeah.
So it'll be going live tomorrowwhen this airs.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
Yeah, yeah, and we will definitely have the link in
the show notes and we hope thatyou will all go check it out.
Yes, please.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
That would be wonderful.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
So what about WonderCon?
I mean, you said it was great,but like that's exciting.
Tell us about WonderCon.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
Yeah.
So I mean it was fun.
It was a lot of fun and I'malways glad I did it.
Financially it was not assuccessful as in the past.
I ended up earning about halfwhat I had earned last year, so
that was a little disappointing,but I still made a profit, so
it's okay.
And the big thing was that Igot to be on an author panel
(04:37):
with Hugh Howey, which wasabsolutely amazing, and also
several of my readers from pastyears came by to say hi and buy
more books, which was fun.
I think that's probably thebiggest benefit that I see from
these events.
I mean, obviously you want tomake a profit and you want to
have good sales, but it's seeingwhat works with readers, which
(04:59):
readers come back, what they'reliking, what they're excited
about from your books All ofthat is such valuable
information and having thatconnection with readers is is
fabulous.
In fact, both my first sale ofthe convention and my very last
sale of the convention werereaders from last year that came
back.
So the first one that's cool.
(05:20):
Yeah, yeah, it was really.
It was really, you know,gratifying cool.
Yeah, yeah, it was really.
It was really, you know,gratifying.
Um, the first one was, uh, aguy who had bought the first two
books in the Signore Chronicleslast year and so I was his
first stop of day.
He like came in, came straightto the booth, wanted the rest of
the series, bought the wholething, and I was so honored that
(05:41):
you know I was basically a bigpart of his reason for being at
the show.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
That's very cool.
Did he also buy Aetherbound?
Is he trying the new series?
Speaker 2 (05:52):
He did not, he just completed Senyari Chronicles,
but he was a younger reader,like older YA, he was actually
there with his dad, but yeah, sokind of kind of makes sense a
little bit for the series thathe chose.
And then my last sale of theconvention was another woman who
I was actually packing up likeit was like the last 10 minutes
(06:16):
of the show, and I was packingup like and she comes running up
, she goes, wait, I'm here, I'mhere.
And so she had already boughtall of the seigniori chronicles
and aether bound.
So she was there to buy aethercrossed, um and uh.
And I guess that just goes toshow why you should never pack
(06:38):
up early and leave early becauseyou might miss some of your
fans, some of your sales.
So yeah, so those I meanhonestly, those two interactions
alone make it worthwhile for me, just because I get to see
those people and the reactionsand what's.
You know what's making peoplehappy?
That's the whole point ofwriting, I feel like is that
(07:00):
connection with readers so often?
Speaker 1 (07:03):
You know, I was listening yesterday to the Wish
I'd Known Then podcast.
Wish I'd Known them for Writers, I think is the official title,
and if you guys haven'tlistened to it you should run
over there and listen to it.
It's a great, a great podcast.
But they had and I can'tremember the name of the writer,
but they had her on this andshe's fabulously successful.
(07:25):
But she said you know,especially with romance,
sometimes you feel likeinsignificant or you're like
you're not important.
She goes, but you never forget.
You are bringing people joy,you're bringing people
entertainment, You're bringingpeople an escape, you know, from
(07:46):
something that's hard in theirlives.
You know that authors who'vebeen around for a while will
tell you.
You know, oh, somebody told meshe read my whole series sitting
at you know, her mother'sbedside while she was dying of
cancer and it helped her getthrough that time.
We never know what our booksare doing.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
And how they're helping people and bringing them
joy.
So pep talk to all the writersout there and myself included,
when we sometimes feel like whatwe're doing is frivolous
compared to you know, firemen ordoctors or nurses.
Well, maybe it is frivolouscompared to them, but it's still
important.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Absolutely.
It absolutely is important.
So, yeah, well, before we moveon, I just want to again take a
quick moment to remind youplease subscribe to the podcast.
If you're enjoying the show,make sure you post a review of
your favorite episodes and sharethem with a writer friend.
We need that community.
That community is so importantand so often just saying hey,
(08:54):
you know this one reallyresonated with me.
I think it might work for youtoo, and your writer journey
would be wonderful.
We really appreciate all yoursupport.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
All righty.
Well, let's dive into theinterview with Maddie Dalrymple
Today.
We are thrilled to have MaddieDalrymple back on the show.
She's one of our favoritefellow podcasters and she is the
author of the Lizzie Ballardthrillers, the Anne Kinnear
suspense novels and the AnneKinnear suspense shorts.
(09:26):
She's a member of InternationalThriller Writers and Sisters in
Crime.
Maddie also podcasts, writes,speaks and consults on the
writing craft and the publishingvoyage as the indie author.
So this is our second visit withMaddie and we are, like I said,
so excited to have her back.
She was actually one of ourfirst guests we interviewed in
(09:49):
season two, which was wonderful,but she is so brilliant and
she's coming out with some newcontent all about podcasting.
So that's our subject for today.
So since we've already had heron the show, we're not going to
ask our usual questions.
If you want to hear herroadblocks and her journey into
(10:09):
writing and all of that goodstuff, go back to season two.
We'll post the link in the shownotes.
But today we want to knowMaddie, how did you get into
podcasting?
Speaker 3 (10:19):
Well, thank you very much for the opportunity to talk
about it.
There's nothing I like betterthan talking podcasting with
fellow podcasters, so kind oflike a meta conversation here on
your podcast about that.
Yeah, for sure we can nerd out.
Yeah, I love to nerd out aboutpodcasting.
But I started the Indie AuthorPodcast in 2016, basically
(10:39):
because I was a member of awriting group, the Brandywine
Valley Writers Group, and Iwanted an opportunity to talk to
people in the group who hadexpertise in different areas.
So there was someone who isvery good at giving author
readings.
There was someone else who hadformed sort of a co-op with some
other authors in order tocreate a little publishing house
(11:00):
.
There was someone who was veryexperienced with outreach to
media outlets, and I basicallywanted an opportunity to talk to
all these people and, almost asa way of paying them back for
spending time with me to talkabout their area of expertise, I
recorded the conversations andI put them up as podcast
episodes.
So in those early years I waspublishing the podcast very
(11:21):
infrequently and it wasbasically just a learning
opportunity for me and a way topay it forward to my basically
my fellow writing group membersso they could benefit from this
expertise as well, and then in2019, I left my corporate job
and I had enough time then to goon a regular, more regular
schedule.
So I think at first I was goingevery other week, was going
(11:50):
every other week, and then in2020, I was able to go every
week, and so those goals oflearning from experts had
continued.
I carried that forward into mylater podcast experiences, but
then was adding some otherthings like.
Podcasting is content marketing, podcasting is a source of
direct or indirect income andother things.
But I just think thatpodcasting is such a powerful
platform and being able to talkto people you know, getting in
(12:11):
someone's head very, almostliterally, is a way you can form
relationships that I think youreally can't form any other way.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
I would agree with that and I think it is, you know
, the know like and trust thing.
It's just a really great waywhen people can hear your voice
and hear your humor and hear theway you tackle things.
When it's off the cuff and ithasn't been edited, and all that
other kind of stuff.
I mean, we only edit out sillythings like dogs barking or, you
(12:41):
know, cats jumping and knockingover computers and things like
that.
So I totally agree.
So, based on what you just said, maddie, do you think everybody
should start a podcast?
Speaker 2 (12:55):
I do not as powerful as it is, I do not think
everyone should start a podcast.
Yeah, we knew the answer tothat one in advance.
Speaker 3 (13:02):
Yeah, I think everybody did, but I think it's
definitely a question worthasking, because I think some
people behave as if the answeris yes, and when I was working
on the Indie Authors Guide toPodcasting for Authors, a number
that I heard come up all thetime was that 70% of podcasts
pod faded before they got toseven episodes.
(13:22):
Pod fading being you just stopputting out episodes and not
like you have official closeoutor anything like that.
It's just like there's sixepisodes.
And then that was four yearsago and I was never able to find
like the source for that, but Iheard that number from so many
people and it just felt right.
Anecdotally, it felt right.
And so the early chapters of theIndie Authors Guide podcast for
(13:43):
authors are all about whatthings should a potential
podcaster think through todecide if podcasting is for them
.
So, as an example, if someoneis thinking of doing a podcast
about interesting historicalsites around the Philadelphia
area that's where I live thenthey should be able to write
down two dozen topics that theywant to address as part of that
(14:06):
podcast.
And if you can, that's you know.
That shows that you have enoughmaterial there that you're, you
know, a good fodder for anongoing podcast.
If you can't, if you can't writedown two dozen topics, then
maybe having your own podcast isnot the way to go.
And there are all sorts ofother things you know assessing.
If you decide you do want to goahead with a podcast, how do
(14:27):
you match up your professional,personal goals with the kind of
podcast you want to put outthere?
Like I enjoy talking withpeople, I would never have solo
podcast because that wouldn't beappealing to me.
But you know you can adjustthese things after you first
decided whether it's right foryou or not.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
I think that makes so much sense.
I love the idea of puttingtogether a list of a content
list I guess 24 episodes or 24ideas before you even start, and
I think that's key, not justfor podcasting but also for any
other kind of subscription style, product or service, right?
(15:03):
I mean, I kind of did somethingsimilar with my Subst, my sub
stack newsletter, and I wouldargue that in the past I never
have, and perhaps that's why mypast endeavors have sometimes
failed.
Yeah, like, how do you actuallygo about, I mean, other than
you know for you, since it's aninterview podcast other than,
(15:24):
like you know, finding guests?
Are there 24 people you caninvite?
How do you actually put thattogether?
As far as, like, how do youthink through that content
schedule?
Speaker 3 (15:34):
Well, it all starts out with either the topic I want
to talk about or the person Iwant to talk to, and I do pull a
lot of people from conferencesI go to, so whenever I get back
to a conference the three of uswere at 20 Books.
I came back with lots of peopleI wanted to talk to from 20
Books.
I talked to Todd Funnestock whohad given a great presentation
on how to optimize in-personsales, and I was like that's
(15:56):
definitely a topic I want totalk to him about, and I have a
joke that people can tellwhatever I'm struggling with at
the moment in my own authorcareer based on the topics I'm
talking to people about on theshow.
But it's a combination of.
There's a person I loved and Iwant to talk to them about
almost anything.
Jeff Elkins would fall into thatcategory.
Jeff Elkins could just call meup anytime and I would say, sure
(16:19):
, come on over and tell me whatyou want to talk about or topics
that I'm really interested in,so I'll go look for a person who
I think is expert on that.
Yeah, and then, and so I ingeneral, because the podcast is
focused on the writing craft andthe publishing voyage, I sort
of try to alternate betweencraft related and business
related topics, but there reallyisn't more planning that goes
into laying out all the episodesthan what I just described.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
So what other kinds of things do you think people
need to think through beforethey might start a podcast of
their own?
And I know we're going to talkabout becoming a guest on
someone else's podcast, which isa way lower bar to entry than
starting your own podcast.
But I do think that you know ifthere are people in the
(17:04):
audience who are thinking aboutit.
If you were going to make a proand cons list, what would be on
the pros side and what would beon the cons side for those
people to be thinking about?
Speaker 3 (17:16):
Well, all the pros of the goals that I mentioned.
So it is a great way to learn.
It is a great way to pay itforward to your community.
It's a great way to network.
It can be great way to pay itforward to your community.
It's a great way to network.
It can be, if you're willing toput the time into.
It can be a great way to earnanother stream of income as an
author.
I would say that the cons are itis the long game.
(17:38):
So people who say I'm going tostart a podcast because I want
to earn some money I don't knowthat.
I know anybody who isn'talready a celebrity Like, if
you're already a celebrity andyou decide you want to add a
podcast as something you're justadding on to the way you reach
out to your fans and followers,sure, but if you don't have a
huge celebrity following yet,then it's not going to be a
moneymaker right off the bat.
(17:59):
I don't know.
I'll ask you guys to comment onthat as well, but I would say
it's the setting yourexpectations appropriately and
then, knowing it's the long game, I'm going to throw the
question back to you to see whatyou guys think.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
Well, it's also a time commitment.
You know it's a big timecommitment because we've talked
to a couple of people who hadpodcast fades, like you said,
and I think they just thought itwas going to be a lot less work
than it was to just even toproduce it and all of that.
And then if you do hire help,then it's an expense as well.
Speaker 3 (18:34):
So yeah, and I think part of that is you can sort of
manage that if you've thoughtthrough it carefully ahead of
time.
So I had mentioned that in mybook.
There are things about likewhat kind of persona do you want
to convey?
What kind of brand do you wantto represent?
How formal or informal do youwant it to be?
Do you want it to be clean orexplicit?
All those kinds of questions.
(18:56):
And if you decide that youreally want to network with
people but you don't want tospend a lot of time with it,
then there's certainly podcastsout there where it's basically
someone goes into a bar, turnson the recorder on their iPhone,
record something and they putit out in the podcast and
they're going to get an audience.
You know, maybe you're notgoing to get a huge audience,
but maybe you're going to get asuper enthusiastic small
(19:16):
audience who loves that kind ofinformality.
And so if you set theexpectation with your audience
that this is going to beinformal and sometimes you won't
be able to hear the guestsbecause there's like cutlery
sound in- the background likeice cubes or something, then
that that can be okay, but youhave to set your own
expectations.
You have to set the audience'sexpectations, your guests
expectations.
(19:36):
So some of that can be managed,but, yeah, it's never going to
be zero amount of work.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
Yeah, yeah, I think that was maybe the biggest
surprise for us is that how muchwork does go into it, cause we
do even I mean, we have, we havea producer, we have an editor
who does all of that post workfor us, and even with that it's
still a lot of work.
It's still a lot of a lot oftime and effort goes into this.
So, so that's something,something that that has to be
considered before you go in tocreate a podcast, because you're
(20:08):
gonna have to add that intowhatever it is that you're
already doing, and so is thateven feasible, I guess.
But, and then to your point onthe the long term nature, I
don't know, I think, I thinkthat's been.
I think, to do podcasting in alot of ways it's the same as as
writing in general.
You know you have to have otherreasons for doing it than just
(20:33):
the money, because otherwiseyou're probably going to end up,
you know, disappointed in theshort term.
I think long term there's a lotof potential, yeah, but in the
short term, you know it takes ittakes a while to build up
enough of an audience toactually earn any kind of income
off of ads or sponsorships oranything like that.
Speaker 3 (20:51):
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
I've definitely earned moremoney from the speaking
engagements that having apodcast has opened up for me and
that having a network of guestshas opened up for me than I've
made from the podcast.
So can be very successful forindirect income earning.
But yeah, again, just set one'sexpectations appropriately,
(21:13):
yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
And I think that was another benefit that we noticed
too, is just having that network.
Building that network was oneof the biggest pros of having
the podcast is that, hey, we getto invite you on and chat and
like get to know you and seeyour, see your smiling face on
our zoom screen as we'rerecording, and that's, that's
wonderful.
So building that community hasbeen awesome.
But for if you're moreintroverted or if you're, you
(21:38):
know, less tech savvy thingslike that you might have to.
You know that might be a conactually Right.
Speaker 3 (21:44):
Well, I do think that there are like everything's
manageable to an extent, butthere are just some things like
if somebody hates the sound oftheir voice and they refuse to
listen to the recordings ofthemselves, then you really
shouldn't do a podcast, becauseyou really have to commit to
kind of listening to yourproduct sometimes, because there
are just some things that thatyou need to either improve or
that you're doing well and youneed to capitalize on that you
(22:06):
only can get if you listen toyourself.
And if someone says, oh no, Idon't want to do that, then I'm
like then maybe you need to findanother way to fill in the
blank build a community or earnmoney or use content marketing
or whatever it is.
So, yeah, I mean introvertsmight decide to do audio but not
video.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
Or they might do an interview where they're focusing
more of the attention on theguests themselves.
But yeah, there's a low barthat at some point you just have
to or not, but just discuss.
Talking about podcasts ingeneral, can you outline some of
the benefits for us to use?
You have already talked aboutsome of the benefits of being a
(22:55):
podcaster, but how aboutpodcasts in the writing
community and how they benefit?
Authors.
Speaker 3 (23:04):
Well, I think that the real power of podcasts as a
guesting opportunity is formaking connections with
listeners, for expanding yourreach by providing value to the
listeners of your hosts podcast.
Certainly you get the samebenefits in terms of building a
(23:25):
network and so on and building apotentially really deep
relationship with the audiencethat you're reaching.
Because even I mean I hate tosay this as a writer, but I do
think that audio offers anopportunity for a depth of
relationship that you don't geteven from writing.
Like I think about if I weregoing to write a blog post or an
(23:45):
article about any topic thatI've interviewed someone about
on the podcast or beeninterviewed as a guest on the
podcast, which is the morecompelling content and for me,
being able to hear somebody talkabout it, hearing the
excitement in their voice or theanimation, lack of animation or
whatever it might be that makesme feel like I know a person in
(24:05):
a way that I'm just not goingto get if I'm reading, and so
that's a great benefit for hosts.
It's a great benefit for guestsas well.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
Yeah, I would agree with that.
There's been so many times I'velistened to a podcast and heard
an author interviewed andthought, oh guy, I wasn't
particularly interested, I'dseen, say, their series or their
books and they lookedinteresting but didn't grab me.
And then I hear the author talkabout, you know, the research
(24:37):
they did or the experience theyhad or something behind the
scenes that led to that book orthat book series, and then I'm
like I have to go buy it, youknow.
Speaker 3 (24:47):
Yeah, and I think that that is a great point.
If I were giving tips forguests, what you're mentioning
is the best tip, which is go inbeing ready to tell a story, not
sell your product.
Yes, and I was just thinkingearlier.
I was working on an article fora magazine and my normal
(25:09):
writing approach is that I'llwrite up the outline, then I'll
open up ChatGPT and say what are10 topics that I should cover
within an article on thisgeneral subject, and then I'll
get the list back and I'll belike yeah, yeah, yeah, oh yeah,
I didn't think of that one.
You know it's always a gooddouble check.
Oh yeah, I didn't think of thatone.
You know it's always a gooddouble check.
(25:29):
But if you go into the AI andyou say, write me a 1,200-word
article about this topic andspit something out, yes, it's
extraordinary that a computercan do that, but it's usually
pretty boring.
And the thing that isinteresting about articles
written by actual people is thestories they tell.
In exactly the same way, thethings that are interesting
(25:49):
about podcasts articles writtenby actual people is the stories
they tell.
In exactly the same way, thethings that are interesting
about podcast guestingdiscussions is the stories
they're told.
That's just the human thingthat is.
There's no other way to getthat than to hear that person
tell that story about themselves.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
I think that's so key and I like the idea of telling
stories, but it even goes deeperthan that.
Specifically with podcasting,as a guest, I feel like you need
to be ready and willing toshare your personality.
So, yes, it's your story, it'syour journey, it's whatever
anecdote that you can bring tothe table that relates to the
(26:23):
subject matter, but it's how youtell it as well, it's the words
you use, where you put theemphasis.
I mean, I use a lot of howswhen I talk right that you can't
see in the written word.
So, again, I think when you'reon a podcast, that's what your
(26:44):
listeners are probably lookingfor.
It's that personality, that theactual individual behind the
words and the subject.
Speaker 3 (26:53):
Yeah, and there's some really interesting examples
about both honoring your ownpersonality and mirroring or
whatever I'm not sure that's theterm, but the two examples I
can come up with is that I'vebeen on and had as a guest Sasha
Black of the Rebel AuthorPodcast and she was, I think,
talking about creatingcompelling villains.
And before we started out, Imean, if anyone's listened to
(27:15):
the Rebel Author Podcast, youknow that it's not a podcast
that's marked as clean yeah,intentionally, and that's why
her followers love her.
And she came on my podcast inthe beginning she said is your
podcast clean or explicit?
And for anyone who doesn'tmanage a podcast, that's
actually like a little checkmarkyou have to put in the podcast
management Because you know youdon't want a mom or dad driving
(27:36):
their kids to soccer practiceand have a non-clean podcast
show up by surprise.
And so I said, oh well, they'reclean.
And she completely honored that, like, not that she was
subsuming her wonderfulpersonality, but she was
honoring that fact.
And then the other example thatjust came up was I was just
talking to Dale Roberts of SelfPublishing with Dale and we had
(28:00):
spoken I think he hadinterviewed me a couple of weeks
earlier and then I wasinterviewing him for something
and he said that the last timewe had talked, when I was the
guest and he was the host, afterthe interview was over, his
wife said who are you talking to?
And he said Maddie.
And she said you're like,energy was so calmer than it
normally was.
And he said, well, that'sbecause I can't be like, and
(28:22):
then you know, I think I have acalmer, calmer energy than that
and he was able to sort ofadjust.
So that's kind of a pro tip forboth guests and hosts is that
ability to sort of moreappropriately so that you're
having a kind of comparablelevel of energy with the person
you're talking with.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
That is an excellent tip because we have had in the
past a couple of guests thatwere much more deliberate in the
way that they share informationand there were longer pauses.
I'm from New York.
A New York minute is wayshorter than anybody else's
minute and when there's dead airI'm just like I better talk.
(29:02):
I better talk right now.
You know what I mean.
And I had to dial it backbecause they were pausers and I
would have been doing all thetalking and they're my guest,
you know.
So that is a really I wish Ihad had that pro tip before and
you shared that with me beforewe'd had those interviews,
(29:24):
because I was like sitting on myhands and biting my tongue and
I probably interrupted them orwhatever more than I should have
.
Speaker 3 (29:32):
So that's a good tip Plus of having video, even if
you're not going to use thevideo when you're interviewing
someone, because I haveinterviewed people.
I've interviewed a couple ofpeople, on audio only, who were
those kinds of people who werelike deliberate and thinking and
there'd be a pause and I'd belike I'm not getting any hint as
to whether they're waiting forme to ask a question or they're
(29:52):
thinking.
So I'm always appreciative whensomeone lets me be on video,
even if it's not going to getused publicly.
Speaker 2 (29:59):
Oh yeah, we have found that so incredibly
valuable just to be able to read.
You know, eye contact and nods,and when somebody opens their
mouth but doesn't quite get thewords out because they're trying
to say something but then youget interrupted, right Like
having that, that visual cue isdefinitely key as well.
So if you wanted to be a gueston somebody's podcast, besides
(30:22):
trying to match their energylevels and think about their
audience and all of those thingshow do you even begin?
Where do you start for thepitching process?
What do you recommend authorsdo?
Speaker 3 (30:33):
Well, the first thing I recommend authors do is to
listen to podcasts, because Ithink there's sort of an
etiquette around podcasts thatyou don't get unless you're a
listener, and I think that thebest guests are the people who
are enthusiastic listeners.
So I think you should befamiliar with podcasts in
general and then you need tolike listen to the podcast that
you want to pitch.
(30:54):
So I just interviewed MichelleGlogovac, who is the head of the
MLG Collective, and she justput out a book called how to Get
on Podcast.
So I can recommend Michelle'sbook.
But what she said is that youcan really go down a great
rabbit hole by going into apodcast player and putting
something in.
Like, let's say you I'm goingto mimic her example a little
(31:15):
bit but let's say you're anexpert in tulip gardening and so
you put in tulip gardening andyou probably get a bunch of
there are probably like 17podcasts specific to tulip
gardening.
But then you'll say, oh well,gardening in general or like
landscaping, oh, that'sinteresting.
Or hobbies, or hobbies forpeople of a certain demographic,
or oh, I realize I'mspecializing in Southern gardens
(31:36):
as opposed to Northern gardens,whatever those are.
But you can.
You can spend a very productiveamount of time, kind of tracing
all those out, finding thosepodcasts that feel appealing to
you as a listener, becauseyou're going to be more likely
to be successful if you enjoythem as a listener.
There are like podcastmatchmaker services that are out
(31:57):
there, but I actually I don'trecommend people go there.
First, some of them used tooffer free options and you could
say, like I'm an expert in this, so I'm looking at podcasts
that talk about this, and thenthe podcast host could say, well
, I'm a podcast that talks aboutthis one, you know the?
It kind of works, um, so myrecommendation is do that kind
(32:19):
of like work or ear work,because then you want to listen
to it, and then, um, make sureyou're pitching appropriately.
Like, if there's a podcast thatnever hosts a guest, don't
pitch yourself as a guest, don'tsend out generic pitches and
you guys feel free to jump in ifanything I'm saying is like
especially striking it off withyou.
Speaker 1 (32:40):
Yeah, we have had a couple of pitches because our
guests, although most of themare authors themselves, not all
of them are authors and wereally focus on people who have
products and services and orreally maybe unique and
interesting experiences thatmight help writers with their
(33:03):
own writing and publishingjourney Similar to yours,
writing and publishing journeysimilar to yours Whereas, for
instance, the Wish I'd KnownThen podcast, just their focus
is just interviewing authorsabout how they got where they
are.
It's two completely differentkinds of podcasts.
And so when we get pitches andwe do like, oh, you should talk
(33:25):
to this person because his firstbook just came out and it's
really resonating with you know,the community that is doing
caretaking for aging parents andblah, blah, blah, and I'm like
why?
Why are they?
Just because somebody sawauthor?
Oh, he's an author, he shouldbe on your show it's like no,
(33:46):
obviously you're not listeningto the show.
Speaker 3 (33:49):
Yeah, and book tour podcasts are much different than
educational or informationalpodcasts for professional
writers.
Speaker 2 (33:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (33:57):
Yeah, because I do get a bunch of.
I got so many requests I justhave a book coming out.
Especially among my friends itwas embarrassing.
They'd say you know my book iscoming out, can I be on your
podcast?
I have to be like no, no, notreally, it's really not that
kind of podcast.
And I got so many of those thatI finally spun up the what I
Learned video series, which youguys have both been on, to give
people a chance to talk aboutthat.
(34:19):
It was kind of like my payingit back to the author community
offering, but it was greatbecause I did get a couple of
podcast guests, because we gotto the end of the conversation
about their book and I'm likethat is really fascinating.
I interviewed a guy named CliffBeach who talked about how he
had just had a book come out,but he had been like a lifelong
music professional.
We kept talking about whatlessons from his musical career
(34:41):
he carried forward to his authorcareer and I'm like I
definitely want to talk with youabout that for 35 minutes.
Speaker 1 (34:46):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (34:47):
Because he was just you know, he's very easy to talk
to, he's very approachable, andhe was able to express his
ideas very effectively and tiethem effectively to maybe an
area that he wouldn't have if hehad been talking to somebody in
the music world or whateverthat might be.
So, yeah, being familiar withthe podcast you're pitching to
is essential, and then beingable to say, oh, I think you
(35:10):
know, I have this topic that'sapplicable to your audience,
this is how it could benefityour audience, right, I think
that's the key that a lot ofpeople miss.
This is what I have to sharethat could benefit your audience
.
And then the extra credit, thelittle cherry on top could be,
and I think it would be a greatcompanion piece to the episode
you did last month when you weretalking to about such and such
(35:30):
Like.
This is new and different, butI know your podcast enough to be
able to express that I haveactually listened to an episode.
Speaker 1 (35:37):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (35:38):
Yeah, I can't even tell you how many pitches we've
gotten from what looks veryclearly like a PR service or a
podcast match service or youknow something like that, where
they they clearly have notlistened, and most of the time I
don't even we don't evenrespond to those pitches, which
maybe that's not best practice,but I think it's fair.
Whereas if somebody comesthrough and says at least, hey,
(36:02):
we think this is a good fit,because X, y, z, we listened to
this.
We think this person, you knowwhatever has there's reasons and
there's actual personalizationof that email, I'll at least be
like I am so sorry we're bookedup for six months, but you know,
contact us back in the futureand we'll do that.
So I think for for people whoare in that pitching process,
(36:23):
it's very important to keep thatin mind that the more that you
can tailor your pitch, your,your, your approach to the
podcast, the better off you'llbe.
Speaker 3 (36:33):
Yeah, and I've actually.
I tend to discount PR pitchesmore.
They're actually.
There's actually only one PRfirm that I get pitches from and
I take them seriously because Ihave a relationship with them.
But when people are asking like,is it better for me to do this
myself or is it better to have aprofessional do it, I always
(36:53):
say unless again, unless you'rea celebrity it's better to do it
yourself, because havingsomeone between the host who's
assessing a potential guest andthe guest having that buffer
makes it harder for the host totell if the person is going to
be a good match or not.
And there's been a couplefortunately very few, but a
(37:14):
couple of episodes of the indieauthor podcast where I started
in on a conversation and like 10minutes in I'm like this person
clearly had no idea that theirPR department had pitched my
podcast on this particular topic.
And so I think some peoplethink, oh, is it going to make
me look more professional if Igo through a third party like a
publicist?
(37:34):
And I don't think so.
I think doing it yourself ismore personal and more effective
.
Speaker 2 (37:39):
I agree.
I think in the past that wasthe advice, though wasn't it
that you had to, or you should,get a PR or third party for
media placement and stuff?
I mean, I don't know, it seemslike, seems like sounds right,
Sounds like traditional,traditional advice.
Speaker 3 (37:55):
Yeah, I know I've heard that advice.
Yeah, you know I've heard thatadvice before, but I would just
like to offer a counter thatit's not necessarily always true
.
Speaker 2 (38:04):
I 100% agree, actually, and I think that's one
case where the shifts in theindustry and maybe it's
particularly our industry,because we mostly work with
indie authors and indiepublishers and small presses,
things like that so we're alittle bit different than if you
were a New York Timesbestseller pitching the Today
(38:26):
Show, for example.
That's a little different.
Speaker 1 (38:30):
Well, with the big media outlets.
It's kind of like you have tohave a literary agent to pitch
the big publishers.
So, with the big media outlets,I think that they have
relationships with some of thesePR people so that they can get
to, you know, the decision makerat USA, you know at like Good
(38:54):
Morning America or somethinglike that, whereas you know
Greta Boris, as amazing as I am,probably cannot get you know, I
can't.
I don't have a direct line toWhoopi Goldberg or anybody like
that.
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (39:08):
And early on you shouldn't be pitching Whoopi
Goldberg.
So, especially for authors whoare early in their in their
pitching career, like don't,don't start right at the top,
yeah, yeah.
Like find some smaller winswhere you won't be freaked out
when you, when you sign on andmaybe you know the person, maybe
you have some relationship withthem.
Like, I think as a career.
(39:29):
Like if your career explodes,then some of these rules don't
apply.
Then certainly you can hire aPR firm.
But when you're starting out,the more personal the touch the
better.
Speaker 2 (39:38):
Yeah, well, and it's practice which, I think, takes
me into our next question, whichis okay you've been accepted as
a guest on a podcast.
How do you, how you've beenaccepted as a guest on a podcast
, how do you prepare, how do youput yourself out there so that
you're ready and able to talkintelligently with as few ums as
possible?
Speaker 3 (39:58):
Yeah, well, um-wise.
And now I'm going to be superself-conscious about saying um.
Speaker 2 (40:02):
Me too.
Don't worry about it, I justdid it to myself.
Speaker 1 (40:04):
I'm sure she said that we were actually so just
quick note.
We were actually so just quicknote.
We were just actuallyinterviewed on Mark Leslie
Lefebvre's podcast and he saidhe will edit out ums and uhs.
And immediately I was like do Isay ums and uhs?
A lot of ums and uhs?
I was like I just got allparanoid.
So hey, this is an um and uhfree zone.
(40:27):
You can say them or not saythem, we don't care on the
Author Wheel podcast.
Speaker 3 (40:32):
So well.
I would say that a pro tip isjust to stop talking instead of
saying, um, yeah, because mynightmare edit is I actually
have software that will take outus and ums automatically, which
is great, as well as otherthings.
But you know, like you knowsand all the things that I just
said, that I shouldn't have, butgiving people a chance to think
(40:53):
.
Actually, I'm going to go backto the Jeff Elkins interview,
because early on I used a reallyheavy editing hand on all my
podcast episodes.
It's filler word removal iswhat I'm talking about, and so
you can remove every filler wordand I did that.
And then I played back Jeff'sinterview and I was like that
doesn't even sound like him,because part of kind of the joy
(41:16):
of listening to him is you'llask him a question and he'll
think about it and you can seethe wheels turning and he's
taking the question seriouslyand he's giving care to the
answer he gives and if you stripall that out then you lose that
touch.
But it does get distracting topeople to hear the uhs and ums
and so to the extent that peoplecan just not say anything for a
(41:37):
moment, that would be anotherpro tip, but I wouldn't let
people get too hung up on that,because everybody's going to say
it and it's fine, and you don'teven hear it.
You know, when you're listeningto a podcast, you don't even
hear people saying things likethat.
But the key is really to go inwith stories, and I think the
best way to get stories is totalk with a friend about
whatever the topic is.
(41:59):
So if you're talking aboutwhat's a stumbling block that
you needed to overcome and howdid you do that, then get
together with an author friendand answer that question to them
, because the story you tellyour friend is going to be the
story you want to tell to thelisteners of that podcast and
you don't want to be saying in2013, when my first book came
(42:22):
out, I had worked on it for twoand a half years.
No, you want to think what'sbehind that?
Like when people ask me aboutstarting out writing, the story
I tell is being at theYellowstone Hotel with my
husband and if ever a hotel wasgoing to be haunted, it was
going to be the YellowstoneHotel, and a scene popped into
my mind that I saw very clearlyof a woman who can sense dead
people and she goes to a houseand she can't go in because the
(42:46):
reader, but not the protagonist,knows that a murder has taken
place there and that was thestart of the Sense of Death.
And that is much moreinteresting story.
It's usually longer.
I shortened it way up and thenjust kind of a rote recitation
of what my publishing history isand is certainly more
interesting than a sales pitch.
Speaker 1 (43:04):
Is that the Anne Kinnear novel?
Is that the Anne Kinnear novel?
Yes, okay.
So I read the other series, theLizzie Ballard, yep, and now
see it worked, because now Ihave to go read Anne Kinnear
because that is just so up myalley.
Anyway, I do digress, butlisteners, listen to how that
(43:25):
worked.
She told that just anabbreviated version of the story
and now I'm all hot to go getthat book and read it.
So this it does.
It can really work becauseyou're hearing the author and I
always say too that when youread a book it's like you're
mind.
It's a very personal experiencebecause I'm taking those words
(43:49):
directly through my eye gate ormy ears if I'm listening to
audiobooks into my brain.
It's kind of nice to hear thatauthor on a podcast.
First, because there's been afew times I've started a book
and thought I do not want tomind melt with this person.
You know they're interesting.
Yeah, this is not a person Iwant in my head.
So I think that.
(44:11):
Or it is someone who seems veryinviting and engaging and I'd
like to know where their braingoes.
So I think that's really a goodidea.
I also think it's a good ideato talk things through with
friends.
I never thought about thatbefore, but I do love that I
talk to my dog sometimes, yeah.
Speaker 2 (44:33):
Dogs work too, and it's a great idea.
But I actually I think we shouldtake it a step further and say
that when you're on a podcast orany kind of interview where you
know whether it's a video or orjust audio, only treating it
like that person across from youis your friend is gonna be so
(44:54):
much more entertaining to thelistener or viewer than if you
are very formal and stilted andyou're, like you know, uptight
about things.
Right, like if you think aboutlate night TV shows when they're
doing the interviews, what'sthe most engaging interview?
It's not the person that'ssitting there very calmly and
politely answering the questionsand being professional and all
(45:17):
of those things.
It's the person that's like ohmy gosh, did you see that?
Like, I just love this thing,and blah, blah, blah.
Right, they're very engaged,they're very energetic and it is
a even if it's not true, itseems like a friendship between
the host and the guest.
So if you can mimic that sortof mentality, you're going to be
a lot more entertaining than ifyou're, you know, very, very
(45:42):
formal.
I guess is moral of the story.
So treat your host like a friendand your audience yeah.
Speaker 3 (45:48):
And I guess it's all a matter of the persona you want
to create.
So I don't think there are manyof these people out in the
audience.
But let's say you're a nuclearphysicist and you're going on a
podcast about the you know,impending nuclear holocaust or
something like that, thenobviously you don't want to do
that Like, if you're talking,you know, if you're a brain
surgeon, then you want to hearsomeone who's talking very
(46:10):
logically and calmly and doesn'tseem to get ruffled easily,
because I wouldn't want to beoperated on by somebody who gets
ruffled easily.
But I think that for theaudience that we're reaching
here, then you're absolutelyright.
A group of authors want to hearstories and they want to hear
them in an animated and engagingway, and that's what you should
try to do in your, in yourguest appearances.
Speaker 2 (46:30):
Yeah, but I think, even if you're an expert though,
on a, on a podcast or show orwhatever, showing your passion
for the subject.
So even if you are that, thatbrain surgeon, and you have to
be calm and in control andprofessional to an extent at
least you know, through thevoice, through your tone I would
(46:50):
suggest showing that passionfor your subject matter and your
expertise, rather than, likeyou don't want to.
Yes, I can operate on brains.
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3 (47:01):
That's a great way of putting it.
Speaker 1 (47:04):
Yeah, you got to show you have a little bit of a
bedside manner.
So tell us about your coachingservice that you've got going,
because you are obviously havegiven this whole thing a lot of
thought about how to be a guest,how to pitch people, how to do.
(47:25):
You know, obviously you'vegiven it a lot more thought than
we have and we have a podcast,which is a little scary.
I think, megan and I need yourcoaching course.
Speaker 3 (47:37):
I'm never doing it well, naturally, I don't think
you need coaching.
Speaker 1 (47:41):
So tell us.
Tell us more about it, though,because, no, I'm super excited.
I think it's a really brilliantidea and very needed in the
industry.
Speaker 3 (47:50):
Well, thank you.
Well, it came about because Ihad started this video series.
I mentioned that you guys haveboth been on what I Learned and
I asked authors two questionsrelated to their latest book
what did they learn that theywould like to share with their
fellow writers?
And what did they learn thatthey would like to share with
their fellow readers?
And originally this was goingto be like a friends and family
thing and then some PR companiesfound out about it and started
(48:11):
sending me people.
I finally had to cut back onthat a little bit.
But what I found was I foundseveral times the PR person
would call me after theinterview and say, oh, that was
so-and-so's first interview everand they were really excited
and happy.
Like they were very nervousgoing in and then they talk with
you and then, when they weredone, they were really excited
and happy.
Like they were very nervousgoing in and then they talk with
(48:32):
you and then, when they weredone, they were really pleased
with it.
And now they've seen the videoand they were happy with that.
And you know I took that as acompliment because I'm glad I
created an environment wherethey were comfortable like that.
And I also realized that I notonly have you know now 220 plus
episodes of the New AuthorPodcast and have been on many
podcasts as a guest, but I alsohave a background from my
(48:54):
corporate career.
When I worked in the corporateworld, I was part of a team of
people who gave I hate to callit new employee orientation, but
it was basically a two-daysession where we would talk
about the tools that employeescould use in order to improve
their results.
So it was teamwork and settinggoals and communication skills
and all those giving feedback,things like that and throughout
(49:18):
the two days, we would haveexecutives come in and tell
stories about how themimplementing the things that we
talked about in the two-daysession had improved their own
results, had improved their ownresults and, as a facilitator
for this, I was responsible forcoaching the executives to tell
a story that would be compellingand exactly some of the things
that we've talked about so far,like if they came in and droned
(49:40):
on you know, megan, like youwere saying, it's like you've
got to, like, pick up the energya little bit or if their story
wasn't very crisp, finding waysto really identify what the
kernel of what they wanted toconvey was and focusing what
they were saying, on that,picking out those things that
were going to make the storythey wanted to tell as
effectively as possible.
So I started thinking I havethese all these seemingly
(50:04):
disparate but it turns outsupporting skills and background
, and I like the idea of helpingother people like these people
who had come to me to do thewhat I Learned episodes, feel
more comfortable going to thatso they don't have to go into
the first one feeling supernervous about it.
And so I started a consultingservice called PodPro Author
(50:24):
Coaching, and what I do is Iactually do that interview, that
what I Learned interview, orsort of a fake version of it,
because I don't necessarilyguarantee that it will go up on
my YouTube channel.
I do that interview with themand then I edit that and I give
them an edited version of thatso they can use it for their own
purposes.
And then we get together as afollow up and we go through
(50:47):
their performance and I givethem tips related mainly to one
is content, like is do you havea story you're telling and how
effectively are you telling it?
Their persona, like tips aboutgetting more energy in their
delivery or something like that.
And then the technical things,like I can't see your face or
you need a better microphone, orwhatever that might be.
(51:08):
And then there are some otheradd-ons, like membership in my
private Facebook group andthings like that.
But just that having thatinteraction, especially for
authors who are just going intoyou know, just venturing into
the podcast world for the firsttime to give them that
comfortable feeling that they'regoing into it having already
broken the ice and feelingcomfortable with the format,
(51:30):
feeling comfortable with thetechnology and so on.
Speaker 2 (51:33):
Practice.
Speaker 1 (51:34):
That's really, really , it's brilliant.
Yeah, because I also think thatone of the things that can come
across poorly in an interviewis if you're nervous and nerves
can manifest themselves alldifferent ways.
It can be you over talk, or youdon't talk enough, or you
stutter talk, or whatever.
Speaker 2 (51:57):
Or you sweat profusely, like I do right.
Speaker 3 (52:00):
I don't know that there's anything I'm going to be
able to do about that, otherthan say, like, don't show your
armpits, which is actually a tip, that is a practical tip.
Speaker 2 (52:12):
Yeah, well, I mean, and that's the thing, like it
took practice, greta and I usedto teach live and in person, and
I would always have to changeshirts afterwards because I'd
get nervous and that would be myphysical reaction, which is I
can't believe I'm admitting thison the air, but you know, there
you go.
Speaker 3 (52:32):
Well, my personal story is that if I can't, I
can't believe I'm admitting thison the air, but you know, there
you go.
Well, my personal story is thatif I can't, I can't have a
glass with ice cubes in it,because I have very unsteady
hands.
I think with improved likesound technology, this isn't as
much of an issue as it used tobe, but I never pick anything up
where, if my hand is shaking,you're going to be able to hear
the ice cubes shake.
So it's the same thing Like youlearn those things about
(52:53):
yourself and it's better tolearn it with a friendly
audience than to learn it thehard way in front of an audience
of thousands, absolutely yeah.
Speaker 1 (52:56):
And having a person who is a professional, who's
been doing something for a verylong time not like you're old or
anything, maddie, I didn't meanthat that way but for quite a
while, give you thoseprofessional tips that your
friends and family can't Like.
You can have a discussion withyour friends and family, like
(53:17):
you said.
Just go over the stories you'regoing to tell, and they can
give you some little tips likepick up the energy, or you're
rambling in this part, this partwas a little boring, or
whatever.
They can give you some tips,but they cannot give you the
tips that somebody who has beenlearned the hard way, through
the hard knocks of life and madeall the mistakes can give you.
(53:39):
And so I think that's brilliant, that's a really excellent
service.
And for all you guys listeningout there, if you're thinking
about pitching yourself topodcasts, I would totally go
check out.
We'll have the link in the shownotes, but I would totally go
check out Maddie's service,because I think this is.
(54:00):
I would just make you comeacross as so much calmer and so
much more of a professionalyourself.
So I think that's a great, agreat service.
So do you want to give ourguests any last little tidbit
tips on this topic before we goto all your links and where they
(54:22):
can find everything?
Speaker 3 (54:24):
Oh, last tips.
You've given me an opportunityto say so many of the tips.
I guess one tip I will say isthat when you start landing
those podcast appearances,something that you can do to
smooth the way for future onesis, at the end of the episode,
ask the interviewer if there areother podcasts that they think
(54:45):
that your topic would be a goodfit for, because podcasters talk
to podcasters, and having avirtual introduction, if someone
says, oh yeah, you know thatone thing you talked about
that's related to so, and so Iknow somebody who would be super
excited about that.
You know, let me introduce you.
And that goes not just for yourhost but for anyone.
(55:05):
You know, don't be shy to askfor virtual introductions.
I know both you guys havekindly offered virtual
introductions for me to otherpeople.
You can certainly ask your hostfor that, and then you can
certainly pay that forward bywhen you're in that position
where you can make a match.
You know the personalmatchmaking is the way to go,
and so if you are talking to afellow author and you're saying,
(55:28):
oh man, that would be a greattopic on such and such podcast,
you know you can also pay itforward by making that virtual
introduction as well.
Speaker 1 (55:37):
Yeah, that's that is.
That is a lovely tip, so whydon't you tell everybody where
they can find out more about you, your podcast and your new
coaching program?
Speaker 3 (55:48):
Thank you Well, thank you so much.
It's always so lovely to chatwith you guys.
I appreciate the invitation andif people are interested in my
fiction work they can go tomaddiedalrymplecom.
That's Maddie with a YM-A-D-D-Y.
And if they're interested in mynonfiction work they can go to
(56:11):
thePro.
Author Coaching.
Speaker 1 (56:13):
Okay, that is wonderful and, as I said before,
all those links will be in theshow notes, and this has just
been such a good conversationand kind of a different topic
for us.
So I love it.
I love to.
There's just so many differentaspects to this whole author
career and this is a nice littleniche that we had never spoken
(56:39):
about before.
And speaking of all differentaspects to this author career,
we do have a free course on theauthor wheel for you.
It's called Seven Steps toClarity.
Uncover your Author Purpose andin seven short lessons, we take
you through a process ofself-examination to discover
(57:02):
your motivations and yourpurposes for writing, create an
author mission statement andeven distill that into a tagline
.
So go check it out.
I did mention it was free anduntil next time, keep your
stories rolling.
Hi everyone, Welcome to the Author Wheel podcast.
I'm Greta Boris, USA Todaybestselling mystery thriller
author.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
And I'm Megan Haskell , award-winning fantasy
adventure author.
Together we are the AuthorWheel.
We have a fantasticconversation coming up with
Maddie Dalrymple today onpodcasting for authors.
Maddie is the voice behind theIndie Author Podcast, which is a
fantastic resource for writers,both indie and traditional, and
she's also a good friend bothpersonally and professionally,
(00:29):
so this was a really funconversation.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
Yeah, maddie is, she is a true pro.
So she what we talked aboutbecause we've had her on the
show before, but what we'respecifically talking about today
with her is her new coachingbusiness that she has for
writers and authors who aretrying to become guests on
podcasts or start their ownpodcasts, and it's really great.
(00:56):
I did a coaching session withher.
I was kind of a guinea pig forher and she goes over how to
pitch and how to presentyourself and she really dials
down into details things thatnever occurred to me to think
about.
So it was super helpful.
She went over like technicalissues.
I was like, oh, you mean,there's technical issues.
(01:17):
She was like it was super, itwas really great.
But anyway, we get into this alot more in the podcast episode,
so I will stop talking about it.
And as far as what's going onwith me which you didn't ask me,
megan, but I know you weregoing to- I was about to yeah
(01:39):
yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
I guess I'm just too predictable, go figure.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
I'm just too predictable, go figure.
Yeah, exactly.
Well, it's not exciting, it'sjust as well.
It's kind of same old, same old.
The only sort of interestingthing that happened was I did
mention last month that thefirst book in my mortician
series was in a Kindle deal forthe month of March, so I thought
I would report back now thatthe month of March is over.
I did see a bump in sales.
(02:11):
It wasn't huge, but you knowthat little bit every single day
definitely added up when I sawmy final earnings for the month.
It did make a difference in myearnings for the month.
So, all that being said, I willdo it again, and if any of you
listeners are offered an AmazonKindle deal, I would totally try
it and see if it works for yourparticular series.
(02:34):
Nice, yeah, so that's mytakeaway on that and what is
happening with you, megan?
I hope it's more interestingthan me.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Well, to be totally honest, I kind of feel like a
chicken with my head cut offthis week, like I lost all of
Monday recovering from WonderCon.
I literally had to, like take ahuge nap and then I mean, it
was a fun event, I'm glad I didit, but still took a lot out of
me.
And then my kids are on springbreak this week and I'm taking
(03:07):
Friday off, so I'm working on areally short week to start with,
and then I'm also putting thefinishing touches on my
Kickstarter campaign for theLast Descendant, which is going
live next week.
I will yeah, I finally decidedto officially set the date, so
it'll run from April 9th throughthe 26th, so I'm like in the
(03:31):
ramp up for that and it's allcoming together.
It's all like the little teeny,tiny details now that have to
be fixed, but it always ends uptaking way more time than you
think it should.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
Yes, so yeah, and actually it will be this week by
the time this intro airs.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
Oh, that's true.
Yes, it will.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
Yes so.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Yeah, yeah.
So it'll be going live tomorrowwhen this airs.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
Yeah, yeah, and we will definitely have the link in
the show notes and we hope thatyou will all go check it out.
Yes, please.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
That would be wonderful.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
So what about WonderCon?
I mean, you said it was great,but like that's exciting.
Tell us about WonderCon.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
Yeah.
So I mean it was fun.
It was a lot of fun and I'malways glad I did it.
Financially it was not assuccessful as in the past.
I ended up earning about halfwhat I had earned last year, so
that was a little disappointing,but I still made a profit, so
it's okay.
And the big thing was that Igot to be on an author panel
(04:37):
with Hugh Howey, which wasabsolutely amazing, and also
several of my readers from pastyears came by to say hi and buy
more books, which was fun.
I think that's probably thebiggest benefit that I see from
these events.
I mean, obviously you want tomake a profit and you want to
have good sales, but it's seeingwhat works with readers, which
(04:59):
readers come back, what they'reliking, what they're excited
about from your books All ofthat is such valuable
information and having thatconnection with readers is is
fabulous.
In fact, both my first sale ofthe convention and my very last
sale of the convention werereaders from last year that came
back.
So the first one that's cool.
(05:20):
Yeah, yeah, it was really.
It was really, you know,gratifying cool.
Yeah, yeah, it was really.
It was really, you know,gratifying.
Um, the first one was, uh, aguy who had bought the first two
books in the Signore Chronicleslast year and so I was his
first stop of day.
He like came in, came straightto the booth, wanted the rest of
the series, bought the wholething, and I was so honored that
(05:41):
you know I was basically a bigpart of his reason for being at
the show.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
That's very cool.
Did he also buy Aetherbound?
Is he trying the new series?
Speaker 2 (05:52):
He did not, he just completed Senyari Chronicles,
but he was a younger reader,like older YA, he was actually
there with his dad, but yeah, sokind of kind of makes sense a
little bit for the series thathe chose.
And then my last sale of theconvention was another woman who
I was actually packing up likeit was like the last 10 minutes
(06:16):
of the show, and I was packingup like and she comes running up
, she goes, wait, I'm here, I'mhere.
And so she had already boughtall of the seigniori chronicles
and aether bound.
So she was there to buy aethercrossed, um and uh.
And I guess that just goes toshow why you should never pack
(06:38):
up early and leave early becauseyou might miss some of your
fans, some of your sales.
So yeah, so those I meanhonestly, those two interactions
alone make it worthwhile for me, just because I get to see
those people and the reactionsand what's.
You know what's making peoplehappy?
That's the whole point ofwriting, I feel like is that
(07:00):
connection with readers so often?
Speaker 1 (07:03):
You know, I was listening yesterday to the Wish
I'd Known Then podcast.
Wish I'd Known them for Writers, I think is the official title,
and if you guys haven'tlistened to it you should run
over there and listen to it.
It's a great, a great podcast.
But they had and I can'tremember the name of the writer,
but they had her on this andshe's fabulously successful.
(07:25):
But she said you know,especially with romance,
sometimes you feel likeinsignificant or you're like
you're not important.
She goes, but you never forget.
You are bringing people joy,you're bringing people
entertainment, You're bringingpeople an escape, you know, from
(07:46):
something that's hard in theirlives.
You know that authors who'vebeen around for a while will
tell you.
You know, oh, somebody told meshe read my whole series sitting
at you know, her mother'sbedside while she was dying of
cancer and it helped her getthrough that time.
We never know what our booksare doing.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
And how they're helping people and bringing them
joy.
So pep talk to all the writersout there and myself included,
when we sometimes feel like whatwe're doing is frivolous
compared to you know, firemen ordoctors or nurses.
Well, maybe it is frivolouscompared to them, but it's still
important.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Absolutely.
It absolutely is important.
So, yeah, well, before we moveon, I just want to again take a
quick moment to remind youplease subscribe to the podcast.
If you're enjoying the show,make sure you post a review of
your favorite episodes and sharethem with a writer friend.
We need that community.
That community is so importantand so often just saying hey,
(08:54):
you know this one reallyresonated with me.
I think it might work for youtoo, and your writer journey
would be wonderful.
We really appreciate all yoursupport.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
All righty.
Well, let's dive into theinterview with Maddie Dalrymple
Today.
We are thrilled to have MaddieDalrymple back on the show.
She's one of our favoritefellow podcasters and she is the
author of the Lizzie Ballardthrillers, the Anne Kinnear
suspense novels and the AnneKinnear suspense shorts.
(09:26):
She's a member of InternationalThriller Writers and Sisters in
Crime.
Maddie also podcasts, writes,speaks and consults on the
writing craft and the publishingvoyage as the indie author.
So this is our second visit withMaddie and we are, like I said,
so excited to have her back.
She was actually one of ourfirst guests we interviewed in
(09:49):
season two, which was wonderful,but she is so brilliant and
she's coming out with some newcontent all about podcasting.
So that's our subject for today.
So since we've already had heron the show, we're not going to
ask our usual questions.
If you want to hear herroadblocks and her journey into
(10:09):
writing and all of that goodstuff, go back to season two.
We'll post the link in the shownotes.
But today we want to knowMaddie, how did you get into
podcasting?
Speaker 3 (10:19):
Well, thank you very much for the opportunity to talk
about it.
There's nothing I like betterthan talking podcasting with
fellow podcasters, so kind oflike a meta conversation here on
your podcast about that.
Yeah, for sure we can nerd out.
Yeah, I love to nerd out aboutpodcasting.
But I started the Indie AuthorPodcast in 2016, basically
(10:39):
because I was a member of awriting group, the Brandywine
Valley Writers Group, and Iwanted an opportunity to talk to
people in the group who hadexpertise in different areas.
So there was someone who isvery good at giving author
readings.
There was someone else who hadformed sort of a co-op with some
other authors in order tocreate a little publishing house
(11:00):
.
There was someone who was veryexperienced with outreach to
media outlets, and I basicallywanted an opportunity to talk to
all these people and, almost asa way of paying them back for
spending time with me to talkabout their area of expertise, I
recorded the conversations andI put them up as podcast
episodes.
So in those early years I waspublishing the podcast very
(11:21):
infrequently and it wasbasically just a learning
opportunity for me and a way topay it forward to my basically
my fellow writing group membersso they could benefit from this
expertise as well, and then in2019, I left my corporate job
and I had enough time then to goon a regular, more regular
schedule.
So I think at first I was goingevery other week, was going
(11:50):
every other week, and then in2020, I was able to go every
week, and so those goals oflearning from experts had
continued.
I carried that forward into mylater podcast experiences, but
then was adding some otherthings like.
Podcasting is content marketing, podcasting is a source of
direct or indirect income andother things.
But I just think thatpodcasting is such a powerful
platform and being able to talkto people you know, getting in
(12:11):
someone's head very, almostliterally, is a way you can form
relationships that I think youreally can't form any other way.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
I would agree with that and I think it is, you know
, the know like and trust thing.
It's just a really great waywhen people can hear your voice
and hear your humor and hear theway you tackle things.
When it's off the cuff and ithasn't been edited, and all that
other kind of stuff.
I mean, we only edit out sillythings like dogs barking or, you
(12:41):
know, cats jumping and knockingover computers and things like
that.
So I totally agree.
So, based on what you just said, maddie, do you think everybody
should start a podcast?
Speaker 2 (12:55):
I do not as powerful as it is, I do not think
everyone should start a podcast.
Yeah, we knew the answer tothat one in advance.
Speaker 3 (13:02):
Yeah, I think everybody did, but I think it's
definitely a question worthasking, because I think some
people behave as if the answeris yes, and when I was working
on the Indie Authors Guide toPodcasting for Authors, a number
that I heard come up all thetime was that 70% of podcasts
pod faded before they got toseven episodes.
(13:22):
Pod fading being you just stopputting out episodes and not
like you have official closeoutor anything like that.
It's just like there's sixepisodes.
And then that was four yearsago and I was never able to find
like the source for that, but Iheard that number from so many
people and it just felt right.
Anecdotally, it felt right.
And so the early chapters of theIndie Authors Guide podcast for
(13:43):
authors are all about whatthings should a potential
podcaster think through todecide if podcasting is for them
.
So, as an example, if someoneis thinking of doing a podcast
about interesting historicalsites around the Philadelphia
area that's where I live thenthey should be able to write
down two dozen topics that theywant to address as part of that
(14:06):
podcast.
And if you can, that's you know.
That shows that you have enoughmaterial there that you're, you
know, a good fodder for anongoing podcast.
If you can't, if you can't writedown two dozen topics, then
maybe having your own podcast isnot the way to go.
And there are all sorts ofother things you know assessing.
If you decide you do want to goahead with a podcast, how do
(14:27):
you match up your professional,personal goals with the kind of
podcast you want to put outthere?
Like I enjoy talking withpeople, I would never have solo
podcast because that wouldn't beappealing to me.
But you know you can adjustthese things after you first
decided whether it's right foryou or not.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
I think that makes so much sense.
I love the idea of puttingtogether a list of a content
list I guess 24 episodes or 24ideas before you even start, and
I think that's key, not justfor podcasting but also for any
other kind of subscription style, product or service, right?
(15:03):
I mean, I kind of did somethingsimilar with my Subst, my sub
stack newsletter, and I wouldargue that in the past I never
have, and perhaps that's why mypast endeavors have sometimes
failed.
Yeah, like, how do you actuallygo about, I mean, other than
you know for you, since it's aninterview podcast other than,
(15:24):
like you know, finding guests?
Are there 24 people you caninvite?
How do you actually put thattogether?
As far as, like, how do youthink through that content
schedule?
Speaker 3 (15:34):
Well, it all starts out with either the topic I want
to talk about or the person Iwant to talk to, and I do pull a
lot of people from conferencesI go to, so whenever I get back
to a conference the three of uswere at 20 Books.
I came back with lots of peopleI wanted to talk to from 20
Books.
I talked to Todd Funnestock whohad given a great presentation
on how to optimize in-personsales, and I was like that's
(15:56):
definitely a topic I want totalk to him about, and I have a
joke that people can tellwhatever I'm struggling with at
the moment in my own authorcareer based on the topics I'm
talking to people about on theshow.
But it's a combination of.
There's a person I loved and Iwant to talk to them about
almost anything.
Jeff Elkins would fall into thatcategory.
Jeff Elkins could just call meup anytime and I would say, sure
(16:19):
, come on over and tell me whatyou want to talk about or topics
that I'm really interested in,so I'll go look for a person who
I think is expert on that.
Yeah, and then, and so I ingeneral, because the podcast is
focused on the writing craft andthe publishing voyage, I sort
of try to alternate betweencraft related and business
related topics, but there reallyisn't more planning that goes
into laying out all the episodesthan what I just described.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
So what other kinds of things do you think people
need to think through beforethey might start a podcast of
their own?
And I know we're going to talkabout becoming a guest on
someone else's podcast, which isa way lower bar to entry than
starting your own podcast.
But I do think that you know ifthere are people in the
(17:04):
audience who are thinking aboutit.
If you were going to make a proand cons list, what would be on
the pros side and what would beon the cons side for those
people to be thinking about?
Speaker 3 (17:16):
Well, all the pros of the goals that I mentioned.
So it is a great way to learn.
It is a great way to pay itforward to your community.
It's a great way to network.
It can be great way to pay itforward to your community.
It's a great way to network.
It can be, if you're willing toput the time into.
It can be a great way to earnanother stream of income as an
author.
I would say that the cons are itis the long game.
(17:38):
So people who say I'm going tostart a podcast because I want
to earn some money I don't knowthat.
I know anybody who isn'talready a celebrity Like, if
you're already a celebrity andyou decide you want to add a
podcast as something you're justadding on to the way you reach
out to your fans and followers,sure, but if you don't have a
huge celebrity following yet,then it's not going to be a
moneymaker right off the bat.
(17:59):
I don't know.
I'll ask you guys to comment onthat as well, but I would say
it's the setting yourexpectations appropriately and
then, knowing it's the long game, I'm going to throw the
question back to you to see whatyou guys think.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
Well, it's also a time commitment.
You know it's a big timecommitment because we've talked
to a couple of people who hadpodcast fades, like you said,
and I think they just thought itwas going to be a lot less work
than it was to just even toproduce it and all of that.
And then if you do hire help,then it's an expense as well.
Speaker 3 (18:34):
So yeah, and I think part of that is you can sort of
manage that if you've thoughtthrough it carefully ahead of
time.
So I had mentioned that in mybook.
There are things about likewhat kind of persona do you want
to convey?
What kind of brand do you wantto represent?
How formal or informal do youwant it to be?
Do you want it to be clean orexplicit?
All those kinds of questions.
(18:56):
And if you decide that youreally want to network with
people but you don't want tospend a lot of time with it,
then there's certainly podcastsout there where it's basically
someone goes into a bar, turnson the recorder on their iPhone,
record something and they putit out in the podcast and
they're going to get an audience.
You know, maybe you're notgoing to get a huge audience,
but maybe you're going to get asuper enthusiastic small
(19:16):
audience who loves that kind ofinformality.
And so if you set theexpectation with your audience
that this is going to beinformal and sometimes you won't
be able to hear the guestsbecause there's like cutlery
sound in- the background likeice cubes or something, then
that that can be okay, but youhave to set your own
expectations.
You have to set the audience'sexpectations, your guests
expectations.
(19:36):
So some of that can be managed,but, yeah, it's never going to
be zero amount of work.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
Yeah, yeah, I think that was maybe the biggest
surprise for us is that how muchwork does go into it, cause we
do even I mean, we have, we havea producer, we have an editor
who does all of that post workfor us, and even with that it's
still a lot of work.
It's still a lot of a lot oftime and effort goes into this.
So, so that's something,something that that has to be
considered before you go in tocreate a podcast, because you're
(20:08):
gonna have to add that intowhatever it is that you're
already doing, and so is thateven feasible, I guess.
But, and then to your point onthe the long term nature, I
don't know, I think, I thinkthat's been.
I think, to do podcasting in alot of ways it's the same as as
writing in general.
You know you have to have otherreasons for doing it than just
(20:33):
the money, because otherwiseyou're probably going to end up,
you know, disappointed in theshort term.
I think long term there's a lotof potential, yeah, but in the
short term, you know it takes ittakes a while to build up
enough of an audience toactually earn any kind of income
off of ads or sponsorships oranything like that.
Speaker 3 (20:51):
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
I've definitely earned moremoney from the speaking
engagements that having apodcast has opened up for me and
that having a network of guestshas opened up for me than I've
made from the podcast.
So can be very successful forindirect income earning.
But yeah, again, just set one'sexpectations appropriately,
(21:13):
yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
And I think that was another benefit that we noticed
too, is just having that network.
Building that network was oneof the biggest pros of having
the podcast is that, hey, we getto invite you on and chat and
like get to know you and seeyour, see your smiling face on
our zoom screen as we'rerecording, and that's, that's
wonderful.
So building that community hasbeen awesome.
But for if you're moreintroverted or if you're, you
(21:38):
know, less tech savvy thingslike that you might have to.
You know that might be a conactually Right.
Speaker 3 (21:44):
Well, I do think that there are like everything's
manageable to an extent, butthere are just some things like
if somebody hates the sound oftheir voice and they refuse to
listen to the recordings ofthemselves, then you really
shouldn't do a podcast, becauseyou really have to commit to
kind of listening to yourproduct sometimes, because there
are just some things that thatyou need to either improve or
that you're doing well and youneed to capitalize on that you
(22:06):
only can get if you listen toyourself.
And if someone says, oh no, Idon't want to do that, then I'm
like then maybe you need to findanother way to fill in the
blank build a community or earnmoney or use content marketing
or whatever it is.
So, yeah, I mean introvertsmight decide to do audio but not
video.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
Or they might do an interview where they're focusing
more of the attention on theguests themselves.
But yeah, there's a low barthat at some point you just have
to or not, but just discuss.
Talking about podcasts ingeneral, can you outline some of
the benefits for us to use?
You have already talked aboutsome of the benefits of being a
(22:55):
podcaster, but how aboutpodcasts in the writing
community and how they benefit?
Authors.
Speaker 3 (23:04):
Well, I think that the real power of podcasts as a
guesting opportunity is formaking connections with
listeners, for expanding yourreach by providing value to the
listeners of your hosts podcast.
Certainly you get the samebenefits in terms of building a
(23:25):
network and so on and building apotentially really deep
relationship with the audiencethat you're reaching.
Because even I mean I hate tosay this as a writer, but I do
think that audio offers anopportunity for a depth of
relationship that you don't geteven from writing.
Like I think about if I weregoing to write a blog post or an
(23:45):
article about any topic thatI've interviewed someone about
on the podcast or beeninterviewed as a guest on the
podcast, which is the morecompelling content and for me,
being able to hear somebody talkabout it, hearing the
excitement in their voice or theanimation, lack of animation or
whatever it might be that makesme feel like I know a person in
(24:05):
a way that I'm just not goingto get if I'm reading, and so
that's a great benefit for hosts.
It's a great benefit for guestsas well.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
Yeah, I would agree with that.
There's been so many times I'velistened to a podcast and heard
an author interviewed andthought, oh guy, I wasn't
particularly interested, I'dseen, say, their series or their
books and they lookedinteresting but didn't grab me.
And then I hear the author talkabout, you know, the research
(24:37):
they did or the experience theyhad or something behind the
scenes that led to that book orthat book series, and then I'm
like I have to go buy it, youknow.
Speaker 3 (24:47):
Yeah, and I think that that is a great point.
If I were giving tips forguests, what you're mentioning
is the best tip, which is go inbeing ready to tell a story, not
sell your product.
Yes, and I was just thinkingearlier.
I was working on an article fora magazine and my normal
(25:09):
writing approach is that I'llwrite up the outline, then I'll
open up ChatGPT and say what are10 topics that I should cover
within an article on thisgeneral subject, and then I'll
get the list back and I'll belike yeah, yeah, yeah, oh yeah,
I didn't think of that one.
You know it's always a gooddouble check.
Oh yeah, I didn't think of thatone.
You know it's always a gooddouble check.
(25:29):
But if you go into the AI andyou say, write me a 1,200-word
article about this topic andspit something out, yes, it's
extraordinary that a computercan do that, but it's usually
pretty boring.
And the thing that isinteresting about articles
written by actual people is thestories they tell.
In exactly the same way, thethings that are interesting
(25:49):
about podcasts articles writtenby actual people is the stories
they tell.
In exactly the same way, thethings that are interesting
about podcast guestingdiscussions is the stories
they're told.
That's just the human thingthat is.
There's no other way to getthat than to hear that person
tell that story about themselves.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
I think that's so key and I like the idea of telling
stories, but it even goes deeperthan that.
Specifically with podcasting,as a guest, I feel like you need
to be ready and willing toshare your personality.
So, yes, it's your story, it'syour journey, it's whatever
anecdote that you can bring tothe table that relates to the
(26:23):
subject matter, but it's how youtell it as well, it's the words
you use, where you put theemphasis.
I mean, I use a lot of howswhen I talk right that you can't
see in the written word.
So, again, I think when you'reon a podcast, that's what your
(26:44):
listeners are probably lookingfor.
It's that personality, that theactual individual behind the
words and the subject.
Speaker 3 (26:53):
Yeah, and there's some really interesting examples
about both honoring your ownpersonality and mirroring or
whatever I'm not sure that's theterm, but the two examples I
can come up with is that I'vebeen on and had as a guest Sasha
Black of the Rebel AuthorPodcast and she was, I think,
talking about creatingcompelling villains.
And before we started out, Imean, if anyone's listened to
(27:15):
the Rebel Author Podcast, youknow that it's not a podcast
that's marked as clean yeah,intentionally, and that's why
her followers love her.
And she came on my podcast inthe beginning she said is your
podcast clean or explicit?
And for anyone who doesn'tmanage a podcast, that's
actually like a little checkmarkyou have to put in the podcast
management Because you know youdon't want a mom or dad driving
(27:36):
their kids to soccer practiceand have a non-clean podcast
show up by surprise.
And so I said, oh well, they'reclean.
And she completely honored that, like, not that she was
subsuming her wonderfulpersonality, but she was
honoring that fact.
And then the other example thatjust came up was I was just
talking to Dale Roberts of SelfPublishing with Dale and we had
(28:00):
spoken I think he hadinterviewed me a couple of weeks
earlier and then I wasinterviewing him for something
and he said that the last timewe had talked, when I was the
guest and he was the host, afterthe interview was over, his
wife said who are you talking to?
And he said Maddie.
And she said you're like,energy was so calmer than it
normally was.
And he said, well, that'sbecause I can't be like, and
(28:22):
then you know, I think I have acalmer, calmer energy than that
and he was able to sort ofadjust.
So that's kind of a pro tip forboth guests and hosts is that
ability to sort of moreappropriately so that you're
having a kind of comparablelevel of energy with the person
you're talking with.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
That is an excellent tip because we have had in the
past a couple of guests thatwere much more deliberate in the
way that they share informationand there were longer pauses.
I'm from New York.
A New York minute is wayshorter than anybody else's
minute and when there's dead airI'm just like I better talk.
(29:02):
I better talk right now.
You know what I mean.
And I had to dial it backbecause they were pausers and I
would have been doing all thetalking and they're my guest,
you know.
So that is a really I wish Ihad had that pro tip before and
you shared that with me beforewe'd had those interviews,
(29:24):
because I was like sitting on myhands and biting my tongue and
I probably interrupted them orwhatever more than I should have
.
Speaker 3 (29:32):
So that's a good tip Plus of having video, even if
you're not going to use thevideo when you're interviewing
someone, because I haveinterviewed people.
I've interviewed a couple ofpeople, on audio only, who were
those kinds of people who werelike deliberate and thinking and
there'd be a pause and I'd belike I'm not getting any hint as
to whether they're waiting forme to ask a question or they're
(29:52):
thinking.
So I'm always appreciative whensomeone lets me be on video,
even if it's not going to getused publicly.
Speaker 2 (29:59):
Oh yeah, we have found that so incredibly
valuable just to be able to read.
You know, eye contact and nods,and when somebody opens their
mouth but doesn't quite get thewords out because they're trying
to say something but then youget interrupted, right Like
having that, that visual cue isdefinitely key as well.
So if you wanted to be a gueston somebody's podcast, besides
(30:22):
trying to match their energylevels and think about their
audience and all of those thingshow do you even begin?
Where do you start for thepitching process?
What do you recommend authorsdo?
Speaker 3 (30:33):
Well, the first thing I recommend authors do is to
listen to podcasts, because Ithink there's sort of an
etiquette around podcasts thatyou don't get unless you're a
listener, and I think that thebest guests are the people who
are enthusiastic listeners.
So I think you should befamiliar with podcasts in
general and then you need tolike listen to the podcast that
you want to pitch.
(30:54):
So I just interviewed MichelleGlogovac, who is the head of the
MLG Collective, and she justput out a book called how to Get
on Podcast.
So I can recommend Michelle'sbook.
But what she said is that youcan really go down a great
rabbit hole by going into apodcast player and putting
something in.
Like, let's say you I'm goingto mimic her example a little
(31:15):
bit but let's say you're anexpert in tulip gardening and so
you put in tulip gardening andyou probably get a bunch of
there are probably like 17podcasts specific to tulip
gardening.
But then you'll say, oh well,gardening in general or like
landscaping, oh, that'sinteresting.
Or hobbies, or hobbies forpeople of a certain demographic,
or oh, I realize I'mspecializing in Southern gardens
(31:36):
as opposed to Northern gardens,whatever those are.
But you can.
You can spend a very productiveamount of time, kind of tracing
all those out, finding thosepodcasts that feel appealing to
you as a listener, becauseyou're going to be more likely
to be successful if you enjoythem as a listener.
There are like podcastmatchmaker services that are out
(31:57):
there, but I actually I don'trecommend people go there.
First, some of them used tooffer free options and you could
say, like I'm an expert in this, so I'm looking at podcasts
that talk about this, and thenthe podcast host could say, well
, I'm a podcast that talks aboutthis one, you know the?
It kind of works, um, so myrecommendation is do that kind
(32:19):
of like work or ear work,because then you want to listen
to it, and then, um, make sureyou're pitching appropriately.
Like, if there's a podcast thatnever hosts a guest, don't
pitch yourself as a guest, don'tsend out generic pitches and
you guys feel free to jump in ifanything I'm saying is like
especially striking it off withyou.
Speaker 1 (32:40):
Yeah, we have had a couple of pitches because our
guests, although most of themare authors themselves, not all
of them are authors and wereally focus on people who have
products and services and orreally maybe unique and
interesting experiences thatmight help writers with their
(33:03):
own writing and publishingjourney Similar to yours,
writing and publishing journeysimilar to yours Whereas, for
instance, the Wish I'd KnownThen podcast, just their focus
is just interviewing authorsabout how they got where they
are.
It's two completely differentkinds of podcasts.
And so when we get pitches andwe do like, oh, you should talk
(33:25):
to this person because his firstbook just came out and it's
really resonating with you know,the community that is doing
caretaking for aging parents andblah, blah, blah, and I'm like
why?
Why are they?
Just because somebody sawauthor?
Oh, he's an author, he shouldbe on your show it's like no,
(33:46):
obviously you're not listeningto the show.
Speaker 3 (33:49):
Yeah, and book tour podcasts are much different than
educational or informationalpodcasts for professional
writers.
Speaker 2 (33:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (33:57):
Yeah, because I do get a bunch of.
I got so many requests I justhave a book coming out.
Especially among my friends itwas embarrassing.
They'd say you know my book iscoming out, can I be on your
podcast?
I have to be like no, no, notreally, it's really not that
kind of podcast.
And I got so many of those thatI finally spun up the what I
Learned video series, which youguys have both been on, to give
people a chance to talk aboutthat.
(34:19):
It was kind of like my payingit back to the author community
offering, but it was greatbecause I did get a couple of
podcast guests, because we gotto the end of the conversation
about their book and I'm likethat is really fascinating.
I interviewed a guy named CliffBeach who talked about how he
had just had a book come out,but he had been like a lifelong
music professional.
We kept talking about whatlessons from his musical career
(34:41):
he carried forward to his authorcareer and I'm like I
definitely want to talk with youabout that for 35 minutes.
Speaker 1 (34:46):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (34:47):
Because he was just you know, he's very easy to talk
to, he's very approachable, andhe was able to express his
ideas very effectively and tiethem effectively to maybe an
area that he wouldn't have if hehad been talking to somebody in
the music world or whateverthat might be.
So, yeah, being familiar withthe podcast you're pitching to
is essential, and then beingable to say, oh, I think you
(35:10):
know, I have this topic that'sapplicable to your audience,
this is how it could benefityour audience, right, I think
that's the key that a lot ofpeople miss.
This is what I have to sharethat could benefit your audience
.
And then the extra credit, thelittle cherry on top could be,
and I think it would be a greatcompanion piece to the episode
you did last month when you weretalking to about such and such
(35:30):
Like.
This is new and different, butI know your podcast enough to be
able to express that I haveactually listened to an episode.
Speaker 1 (35:37):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (35:38):
Yeah, I can't even tell you how many pitches we've
gotten from what looks veryclearly like a PR service or a
podcast match service or youknow something like that, where
they they clearly have notlistened, and most of the time I
don't even we don't evenrespond to those pitches, which
maybe that's not best practice,but I think it's fair.
Whereas if somebody comesthrough and says at least, hey,
(36:02):
we think this is a good fit,because X, y, z, we listened to
this.
We think this person, you knowwhatever has there's reasons and
there's actual personalizationof that email, I'll at least be
like I am so sorry we're bookedup for six months, but you know,
contact us back in the futureand we'll do that.
So I think for for people whoare in that pitching process,
(36:23):
it's very important to keep thatin mind that the more that you
can tailor your pitch, your,your, your approach to the
podcast, the better off you'llbe.
Speaker 3 (36:33):
Yeah, and I've actually.
I tend to discount PR pitchesmore.
They're actually.
There's actually only one PRfirm that I get pitches from and
I take them seriously because Ihave a relationship with them.
But when people are asking like,is it better for me to do this
myself or is it better to have aprofessional do it, I always
(36:53):
say unless again, unless you'rea celebrity it's better to do it
yourself, because havingsomeone between the host who's
assessing a potential guest andthe guest having that buffer
makes it harder for the host totell if the person is going to
be a good match or not.
And there's been a couplefortunately very few, but a
(37:14):
couple of episodes of the indieauthor podcast where I started
in on a conversation and like 10minutes in I'm like this person
clearly had no idea that theirPR department had pitched my
podcast on this particular topic.
And so I think some peoplethink, oh, is it going to make
me look more professional if Igo through a third party like a
publicist?
(37:34):
And I don't think so.
I think doing it yourself ismore personal and more effective
.
Speaker 2 (37:39):
I agree.
I think in the past that wasthe advice, though wasn't it
that you had to, or you should,get a PR or third party for
media placement and stuff?
I mean, I don't know, it seemslike, seems like sounds right,
Sounds like traditional,traditional advice.
Speaker 3 (37:55):
Yeah, I know I've heard that advice.
Yeah, you know I've heard thatadvice before, but I would just
like to offer a counter thatit's not necessarily always true
.
Speaker 2 (38:04):
I 100% agree, actually, and I think that's one
case where the shifts in theindustry and maybe it's
particularly our industry,because we mostly work with
indie authors and indiepublishers and small presses,
things like that so we're alittle bit different than if you
were a New York Timesbestseller pitching the Today
(38:26):
Show, for example.
That's a little different.
Speaker 1 (38:30):
Well, with the big media outlets.
It's kind of like you have tohave a literary agent to pitch
the big publishers.
So, with the big media outlets,I think that they have
relationships with some of thesePR people so that they can get
to, you know, the decision makerat USA, you know at like Good
(38:54):
Morning America or somethinglike that, whereas you know
Greta Boris, as amazing as I am,probably cannot get you know, I
can't.
I don't have a direct line toWhoopi Goldberg or anybody like
that.
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (39:08):
And early on you shouldn't be pitching Whoopi
Goldberg.
So, especially for authors whoare early in their in their
pitching career, like don't,don't start right at the top,
yeah, yeah.
Like find some smaller winswhere you won't be freaked out
when you, when you sign on andmaybe you know the person, maybe
you have some relationship withthem.
Like, I think as a career.
(39:29):
Like if your career explodes,then some of these rules don't
apply.
Then certainly you can hire aPR firm.
But when you're starting out,the more personal the touch the
better.
Speaker 2 (39:38):
Yeah, well, and it's practice which, I think, takes
me into our next question, whichis okay you've been accepted as
a guest on a podcast.
How do you, how you've beenaccepted as a guest on a podcast
, how do you prepare, how do youput yourself out there so that
you're ready and able to talkintelligently with as few ums as
possible?
Speaker 3 (39:58):
Yeah, well, um-wise.
And now I'm going to be superself-conscious about saying um.
Speaker 2 (40:02):
Me too.
Don't worry about it, I justdid it to myself.
Speaker 1 (40:04):
I'm sure she said that we were actually so just
quick note.
We were actually so just quicknote.
We were just actuallyinterviewed on Mark Leslie
Lefebvre's podcast and he saidhe will edit out ums and uhs.
And immediately I was like do Isay ums and uhs?
A lot of ums and uhs?
I was like I just got allparanoid.
So hey, this is an um and uhfree zone.
(40:27):
You can say them or not saythem, we don't care on the
Author Wheel podcast.
Speaker 3 (40:32):
So well.
I would say that a pro tip isjust to stop talking instead of
saying, um, yeah, because mynightmare edit is I actually
have software that will take outus and ums automatically, which
is great, as well as otherthings.
But you know, like you knowsand all the things that I just
said, that I shouldn't have, butgiving people a chance to think
(40:53):
.
Actually, I'm going to go backto the Jeff Elkins interview,
because early on I used a reallyheavy editing hand on all my
podcast episodes.
It's filler word removal iswhat I'm talking about, and so
you can remove every filler wordand I did that.
And then I played back Jeff'sinterview and I was like that
doesn't even sound like him,because part of kind of the joy
(41:16):
of listening to him is you'llask him a question and he'll
think about it and you can seethe wheels turning and he's
taking the question seriouslyand he's giving care to the
answer he gives and if you stripall that out then you lose that
touch.
But it does get distracting topeople to hear the uhs and ums
and so to the extent that peoplecan just not say anything for a
(41:37):
moment, that would be anotherpro tip, but I wouldn't let
people get too hung up on that,because everybody's going to say
it and it's fine, and you don'teven hear it.
You know, when you're listeningto a podcast, you don't even
hear people saying things likethat.
But the key is really to go inwith stories, and I think the
best way to get stories is totalk with a friend about
whatever the topic is.
(41:59):
So if you're talking aboutwhat's a stumbling block that
you needed to overcome and howdid you do that, then get
together with an author friendand answer that question to them
, because the story you tellyour friend is going to be the
story you want to tell to thelisteners of that podcast and
you don't want to be saying in2013, when my first book came
(42:22):
out, I had worked on it for twoand a half years.
No, you want to think what'sbehind that?
Like when people ask me aboutstarting out writing, the story
I tell is being at theYellowstone Hotel with my
husband and if ever a hotel wasgoing to be haunted, it was
going to be the YellowstoneHotel, and a scene popped into
my mind that I saw very clearlyof a woman who can sense dead
people and she goes to a houseand she can't go in because the
(42:46):
reader, but not the protagonist,knows that a murder has taken
place there and that was thestart of the Sense of Death.
And that is much moreinteresting story.
It's usually longer.
I shortened it way up and thenjust kind of a rote recitation
of what my publishing history isand is certainly more
interesting than a sales pitch.
Speaker 1 (43:04):
Is that the Anne Kinnear novel?
Is that the Anne Kinnear novel?
Yes, okay.
So I read the other series, theLizzie Ballard, yep, and now
see it worked, because now Ihave to go read Anne Kinnear
because that is just so up myalley.
Anyway, I do digress, butlisteners, listen to how that
(43:25):
worked.
She told that just anabbreviated version of the story
and now I'm all hot to go getthat book and read it.
So this it does.
It can really work becauseyou're hearing the author and I
always say too that when youread a book it's like you're
mind.
It's a very personal experiencebecause I'm taking those words
(43:49):
directly through my eye gate ormy ears if I'm listening to
audiobooks into my brain.
It's kind of nice to hear thatauthor on a podcast.
First, because there's been afew times I've started a book
and thought I do not want tomind melt with this person.
You know they're interesting.
Yeah, this is not a person Iwant in my head.
So I think that.
(44:11):
Or it is someone who seems veryinviting and engaging and I'd
like to know where their braingoes.
So I think that's really a goodidea.
I also think it's a good ideato talk things through with
friends.
I never thought about thatbefore, but I do love that I
talk to my dog sometimes, yeah.
Speaker 2 (44:33):
Dogs work too, and it's a great idea.
But I actually I think we shouldtake it a step further and say
that when you're on a podcast orany kind of interview where you
know whether it's a video or orjust audio, only treating it
like that person across from youis your friend is gonna be so
(44:54):
much more entertaining to thelistener or viewer than if you
are very formal and stilted andyou're, like you know, uptight
about things.
Right, like if you think aboutlate night TV shows when they're
doing the interviews, what'sthe most engaging interview?
It's not the person that'ssitting there very calmly and
politely answering the questionsand being professional and all
(45:17):
of those things.
It's the person that's like ohmy gosh, did you see that?
Like, I just love this thing,and blah, blah, blah.
Right, they're very engaged,they're very energetic and it is
a even if it's not true, itseems like a friendship between
the host and the guest.
So if you can mimic that sortof mentality, you're going to be
a lot more entertaining than ifyou're, you know, very, very
(45:42):
formal.
I guess is moral of the story.
So treat your host like a friendand your audience yeah.
Speaker 3 (45:48):
And I guess it's all a matter of the persona you want
to create.
So I don't think there are manyof these people out in the
audience.
But let's say you're a nuclearphysicist and you're going on a
podcast about the you know,impending nuclear holocaust or
something like that, thenobviously you don't want to do
that Like, if you're talking,you know, if you're a brain
surgeon, then you want to hearsomeone who's talking very
(46:10):
logically and calmly and doesn'tseem to get ruffled easily,
because I wouldn't want to beoperated on by somebody who gets
ruffled easily.
But I think that for theaudience that we're reaching
here, then you're absolutelyright.
A group of authors want to hearstories and they want to hear
them in an animated and engagingway, and that's what you should
try to do in your, in yourguest appearances.
Speaker 2 (46:30):
Yeah, but I think, even if you're an expert though,
on a, on a podcast or show orwhatever, showing your passion
for the subject.
So even if you are that, thatbrain surgeon, and you have to
be calm and in control andprofessional to an extent at
least you know, through thevoice, through your tone I would
(46:50):
suggest showing that passionfor your subject matter and your
expertise, rather than, likeyou don't want to.
Yes, I can operate on brains.
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3 (47:01):
That's a great way of putting it.
Speaker 1 (47:04):
Yeah, you got to show you have a little bit of a
bedside manner.
So tell us about your coachingservice that you've got going,
because you are obviously havegiven this whole thing a lot of
thought about how to be a guest,how to pitch people, how to do.
(47:25):
You know, obviously you'vegiven it a lot more thought than
we have and we have a podcast,which is a little scary.
I think, megan and I need yourcoaching course.
Speaker 3 (47:37):
I'm never doing it well, naturally, I don't think
you need coaching.
Speaker 1 (47:41):
So tell us.
Tell us more about it, though,because, no, I'm super excited.
I think it's a really brilliantidea and very needed in the
industry.
Speaker 3 (47:50):
Well, thank you.
Well, it came about because Ihad started this video series.
I mentioned that you guys haveboth been on what I Learned and
I asked authors two questionsrelated to their latest book
what did they learn that theywould like to share with their
fellow writers?
And what did they learn thatthey would like to share with
their fellow readers?
And originally this was goingto be like a friends and family
thing and then some PR companiesfound out about it and started
(48:11):
sending me people.
I finally had to cut back onthat a little bit.
But what I found was I foundseveral times the PR person
would call me after theinterview and say, oh, that was
so-and-so's first interview everand they were really excited
and happy.
Like they were very nervousgoing in and then they talk with
you and then, when they weredone, they were really excited
and happy.
Like they were very nervousgoing in and then they talk with
(48:32):
you and then, when they weredone, they were really pleased
with it.
And now they've seen the videoand they were happy with that.
And you know I took that as acompliment because I'm glad I
created an environment wherethey were comfortable like that.
And I also realized that I notonly have you know now 220 plus
episodes of the New AuthorPodcast and have been on many
podcasts as a guest, but I alsohave a background from my
(48:54):
corporate career.
When I worked in the corporateworld, I was part of a team of
people who gave I hate to callit new employee orientation, but
it was basically a two-daysession where we would talk
about the tools that employeescould use in order to improve
their results.
So it was teamwork and settinggoals and communication skills
and all those giving feedback,things like that and throughout
(49:18):
the two days, we would haveexecutives come in and tell
stories about how themimplementing the things that we
talked about in the two-daysession had improved their own
results, had improved their ownresults and, as a facilitator
for this, I was responsible forcoaching the executives to tell
a story that would be compellingand exactly some of the things
that we've talked about so far,like if they came in and droned
(49:40):
on you know, megan, like youwere saying, it's like you've
got to, like, pick up the energya little bit or if their story
wasn't very crisp, finding waysto really identify what the
kernel of what they wanted toconvey was and focusing what
they were saying, on that,picking out those things that
were going to make the storythey wanted to tell as
effectively as possible.
So I started thinking I havethese all these seemingly
(50:04):
disparate but it turns outsupporting skills and background
, and I like the idea of helpingother people like these people
who had come to me to do thewhat I Learned episodes, feel
more comfortable going to thatso they don't have to go into
the first one feeling supernervous about it.
And so I started a consultingservice called PodPro Author
(50:24):
Coaching, and what I do is Iactually do that interview, that
what I Learned interview, orsort of a fake version of it,
because I don't necessarilyguarantee that it will go up on
my YouTube channel.
I do that interview with themand then I edit that and I give
them an edited version of thatso they can use it for their own
purposes.
And then we get together as afollow up and we go through
(50:47):
their performance and I givethem tips related mainly to one
is content, like is do you havea story you're telling and how
effectively are you telling it?
Their persona, like tips aboutgetting more energy in their
delivery or something like that.
And then the technical things,like I can't see your face or
you need a better microphone, orwhatever that might be.
(51:08):
And then there are some otheradd-ons, like membership in my
private Facebook group andthings like that.
But just that having thatinteraction, especially for
authors who are just going intoyou know, just venturing into
the podcast world for the firsttime to give them that
comfortable feeling that they'regoing into it having already
broken the ice and feelingcomfortable with the format,
(51:30):
feeling comfortable with thetechnology and so on.
Speaker 2 (51:33):
Practice.
Speaker 1 (51:34):
That's really, really , it's brilliant.
Yeah, because I also think thatone of the things that can come
across poorly in an interviewis if you're nervous and nerves
can manifest themselves alldifferent ways.
It can be you over talk, or youdon't talk enough, or you
stutter talk, or whatever.
Speaker 2 (51:57):
Or you sweat profusely, like I do right.
Speaker 3 (52:00):
I don't know that there's anything I'm going to be
able to do about that, otherthan say, like, don't show your
armpits, which is actually a tip, that is a practical tip.
Speaker 2 (52:12):
Yeah, well, I mean, and that's the thing, like it
took practice, greta and I usedto teach live and in person, and
I would always have to changeshirts afterwards because I'd
get nervous and that would be myphysical reaction, which is I
can't believe I'm admitting thison the air, but you know, there
you go.
Speaker 3 (52:32):
Well, my personal story is that if I can't, I
can't believe I'm admitting thison the air, but you know, there
you go.
Well, my personal story is thatif I can't, I can't have a
glass with ice cubes in it,because I have very unsteady
hands.
I think with improved likesound technology, this isn't as
much of an issue as it used tobe, but I never pick anything up
where, if my hand is shaking,you're going to be able to hear
the ice cubes shake.
So it's the same thing Like youlearn those things about
(52:53):
yourself and it's better tolearn it with a friendly
audience than to learn it thehard way in front of an audience
of thousands, absolutely yeah.
Speaker 1 (52:56):
And having a person who is a professional, who's
been doing something for a verylong time not like you're old or
anything, maddie, I didn't meanthat that way but for quite a
while, give you thoseprofessional tips that your
friends and family can't Like.
You can have a discussion withyour friends and family, like
(53:17):
you said.
Just go over the stories you'regoing to tell, and they can
give you some little tips likepick up the energy, or you're
rambling in this part, this partwas a little boring, or
whatever.
They can give you some tips,but they cannot give you the
tips that somebody who has beenlearned the hard way, through
the hard knocks of life and madeall the mistakes can give you.
(53:39):
And so I think that's brilliant, that's a really excellent
service.
And for all you guys listeningout there, if you're thinking
about pitching yourself topodcasts, I would totally go
check out.
We'll have the link in the shownotes, but I would totally go
check out Maddie's service,because I think this is.
(54:00):
I would just make you comeacross as so much calmer and so
much more of a professionalyourself.
So I think that's a great, agreat service.
So do you want to give ourguests any last little tidbit
tips on this topic before we goto all your links and where they
(54:22):
can find everything?
Speaker 3 (54:24):
Oh, last tips.
You've given me an opportunityto say so many of the tips.
I guess one tip I will say isthat when you start landing
those podcast appearances,something that you can do to
smooth the way for future onesis, at the end of the episode,
ask the interviewer if there areother podcasts that they think
(54:45):
that your topic would be a goodfit for, because podcasters talk
to podcasters, and having avirtual introduction, if someone
says, oh yeah, you know thatone thing you talked about
that's related to so, and so Iknow somebody who would be super
excited about that.
You know, let me introduce you.
And that goes not just for yourhost but for anyone.
(55:05):
You know, don't be shy to askfor virtual introductions.
I know both you guys havekindly offered virtual
introductions for me to otherpeople.
You can certainly ask your hostfor that, and then you can
certainly pay that forward bywhen you're in that position
where you can make a match.
You know the personalmatchmaking is the way to go,
and so if you are talking to afellow author and you're saying,
(55:28):
oh man, that would be a greattopic on such and such podcast,
you know you can also pay itforward by making that virtual
introduction as well.
Speaker 1 (55:37):
Yeah, that's that is.
That is a lovely tip, so whydon't you tell everybody where
they can find out more about you, your podcast and your new
coaching program?
Speaker 3 (55:48):
Thank you Well, thank you so much.
It's always so lovely to chatwith you guys.
I appreciate the invitation andif people are interested in my
fiction work they can go tomaddiedalrymplecom.
That's Maddie with a YM-A-D-D-Y.
And if they're interested in mynonfiction work they can go to
(56:11):
thePro.
Author Coaching.
Speaker 1 (56:13):
Okay, that is wonderful and, as I said before,
all those links will be in theshow notes, and this has just
been such a good conversationand kind of a different topic
for us.
So I love it.
I love to.
There's just so many differentaspects to this whole author
career and this is a nice littleniche that we had never spoken
(56:39):
about before.
And speaking of all differentaspects to this author career,
we do have a free course on theauthor wheel for you.
It's called Seven Steps toClarity.
Uncover your Author Purpose andin seven short lessons, we take
you through a process ofself-examination to discover
(57:02):
your motivations and yourpurposes for writing, create an
author mission statement andeven distill that into a tagline
.
So go check it out.
I did mention it was free anduntil next time, keep your
stories rolling.
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