Essential Strategies for B2B Marketing Leaders in a Recession, with Drew Neisser, CEO at CMO Huddles
August 22, 2024 • 21 mins
In this episode of B2B Brand180, Linda interviews Drew Neisser, CEO at CMO Huddles, podcast host, business coach and author. They discuss the challenges CMOs face in a recession including budget cuts, the importance of brand reputation, and the role of AI. Drew shares insights from his extensive career and explores current industry trends, providing practical advice for navigating economic downturns and leveraging new technologies.
03:03 Challenges and Strategies in B2B Industries
05:47 The Evolving Role of the CMO
07:59 Navigating Budget Cuts and AI in Marketing
15:02 Addressing the Hidden Recession in B2B
16:36 Effective Strategies for B2B CMOs
More About Drew:
http://www.cmohuddles.com
https://www.linkedin.com/in/drewneisser/
Linda's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lindafanaras/
Millennium Agency: Brand Strategy | Marketing | Web Design: https://mill.agency
YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@mill.agency/
Linda's Books:
Claim Your White Space
https://www.amazon.com/CLAIM-YOUR-WHITE-SPACE-CRITICAL-ebook/dp/B0CLK8VLYV
Passion + Profits: Fueling Business And Brand Success
https://www.amazon.com/Passion-Profits-Fueling-Business-Success-ebook/dp/B0CLLDDSNX/
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Linda Fanaras (00:00):
I'm Linda Finares, host of the B2B Brand
CEO of Millennium Agency, whereyou'll learn all the latest tips
on how to grow your businesswith branding, strategy and
other lead generation.
Today, I am super excited tobring in Drew Neiser.
(00:20):
He has had a large careerspecifically working for some
big agencies and he foundedRenegade in 1993.
So he's won just about everyevery possible award out there
regarding creativity andmarketing effectiveness.
He's written some books andwhich I'm sure he'll share a
little bit more.
But what is great about Drew is,is he's really going to bring us
(00:44):
some insight today around B2Bmarketing and strategies that
really do work.
And one of the bestsellingauthors.
bear called him one of thestrongest B to B marketing
thinkers in the world, which hesays makes him laugh, but what
makes his wife laugh.
But I'm actually going to askhim a few questions about that.
(01:05):
So welcome drew.
Super happy to have you heretoday.
Thanks for joining in.
Drew Neisser (01:09):
Thank you.
The last four years have been ajoy ride doing CMO huddles,
which is part of the way I'vereally become this B2B expert.
So, anyway, thank you for doingthis.
I know how much work it is to doa podcast, so I really
appreciate being on your show.
Linda Fanaras (01:23):
No, I love having you here.
So is there anything else you'dlike to add about your
background today?
Drew Neisser (01:28):
Gosh, you know, I am I'm a passionate marketer and
I've been interviewing CMOs forwell over 10 plus years
probably, I think it's I've lostcount.
It's over 600 and that is likemy mana.
That's how being able to talk toCMOs, interview them, go through
their case histories has reallygiven me a pretty profound look
(01:48):
at it at the, the challengesCMOs face, particularly in B2B
and also.
As a coach, which I do more andmore of both in the capacity of
CMO huddles as that's if youthink about it as a large
coaching group, but also one onone.
Linda Fanaras (02:02):
Awesome.
So my first question really toyou, Drew, is why do you think
you were defined as one of thestrongest B2B marketing thinkers
in the world?
That's a pretty big statement.
Drew Neisser (02:13):
You know, I, I so I just sent Jay a copy of my
book and Jay has been on mypodcast a couple of times, but I
tell you what, almost once,maybe once a month some I'll get
a praise for something.
Someone will send some nicefeedback and my wife will say,
That's because you're one of thestrong and she can't quite get
it exactly right.
(02:34):
So we have this big chuckle overit.
You know, I have been told thatit is when someone makes you
accomplishment, just accept it.
I'm one of those folks who ofcourse struggle with that.
But anyway I'm delighted thatJay said it.
I, I think my book RenegadeMarketing, 12 Steps to Building
Unbeatable Brands reallyresonated with him.
And we had enough conversationsand we've spoken at certain
(02:57):
events together that He has asense for my insight, I guess.
Linda Fanaras (03:01):
that's phenomenal.
So tell me on the B2B side,there are many, many different
types of B2B industries outthere.
Which ones do you think aredoing well?
Which ones are, I don't want tosay failing, but maybe not doing
so well.
What's your, what's yourthoughts on that?
Drew Neisser (03:16):
So I've got thoughts and then I've got
research.
So on the, on the research side,I could just hear, we did a
study of 121 B2B CMOs earlier inthe year, and 69 percent think
their industry is in arecession.
So that's, you know, that'salmost seven out of 10.
The only ones that didn't feellike they were in a recession
(03:37):
tend to have some AI componentthat was keeping them moving.
And, you know, going back tothat study for just a second.
The thing about it is that whenyour industry is a recession.
Your budget gets cut.
It gets harder to do it.
Buyers are much more likely notto buy or stretch out the deal
(03:59):
cycles.
And we saw all of that in thedata and CMOs are forced to cut
their staff and along with theirbudget.
So you just have what I woulddescribe for most as the most
stressful period in recentmemory for these folks.
I mean, 61 percent feel this isthe most professionally
(04:19):
challenging period of theirtime.
So.
There's like two economies outthere.
They're sort of B to B ingeneral.
And then there's sort of the AIfolks.
And I can say there's a littlebit of growth in health tech and
a little bit of growth in, butthere's no growth in MarTech.
So everybody's, it's a sharebattle.
So anyway, we all need interestrates to go down and And, and
(04:41):
when that happens we'll, we'llhave a lot more happy B2B
marketers.
Linda Fanaras (04:45):
I guess I'm wondering is manufacturing
versus energy versus otherthings.
Do you, did you take, do youhave any data related?
Drew Neisser (04:53):
So, you know, in general sense, obviously things
like solar are doing well, butthey're, they have supply chain
issues.
So, cause one of one of thehuddlers in our CMO huddles
community is works for for asolar company and their growth
is restrained by certainfactors.
So they should be doing well.
Martech.
(05:13):
Is not as a general rule is notdoing well at all.
And that's any kind of thingthat helps a marketer you know,
do their marketing moreefficiently or measure more
things.
So, in terms of manufacturingagain, look at, you know, you
have to look at it on anindividual basis.
These are still growing, butTesla isn't right.
(05:34):
There's pockets of success outthere, but it's pretty spotty
again.
I think if you threw a dart at aB to B company, chances are
you'd hit one that was not doingas well as they did in 2022.
Right?
Linda Fanaras (05:47):
You know, I'd love to talk more about the CMO
role because I've been aroundthe block for a while, so things
have just become more and morecomplicated for the CMO in so
many different ways.
There are so many different waysto market today.
There are so many differentthings to track.
It's hard to know what's workingand what's not, and it's
becoming more confusing.
So I'm just, from yourperspective, why is the CMO role
(06:11):
more challenging now than
Drew Neisser (06:12):
ever before?
So you're right.
You hit on a lot of the things.
I mean, besides the mediachoices and the technology and
the splintering of it you couldgo to almost any category and
you would probably find 50competitors in it.
So there's too many companieschasing the same, the same
customers.
It's very few brands have anykind of mind space, which is
(06:35):
really the objective of, of allof our marketing.
So.
The job has always been hard,and one of the primary reasons
that folks don't acknowledge isthat less than 20 percent of
CEOs, and it doesn't even matterwhat size company it is, in B2B
have any experience inmarketing.
Linda Fanaras (06:54):
That's interesting.
Drew Neisser (06:56):
And so you have executives who are making
decisions on budgets and whereto allocate budgets who have no
idea how, you know, how thesausage is made, so to speak,
how a marketing plan is puttogether.
They also don't really have asense for what differentiation
looks like.
And so, and how long it takes.
And that's a real problembecause, and by the way, this,
(07:18):
company, this couldn't hamanagers control the budg P.
N.
L.
They know what d doesn't workthat way in have a lot of
disconnecti CEOs.
I write about this a lot onLinkedIn.
You have CEOs who say, justspend money on ways to get me
(07:40):
leads.
That's all they want.
It doesn't work that way.
If you don't understand howmarketing works and how brands
are built as a CEO, you aredoomed to be frustrated with
your CMO.
Linda Fanaras (07:53):
Right.
Right.
Yes.
Like it's cast a wide net.
It doesn't work that way.
Drew Neisser (07:58):
Right.
Linda Fanaras (07:58):
Right.
So when it comes to that CMOrole you know, and they are
looking at difficult,challenging times, how do you
think they should go about maybecutting their budgets, looking
at staffing You know, or go tomarket plan and how does AI plan
into all this now?
Sure.
Because that's a whole otherelement that I think, you know,
(08:19):
marketers are dealing with andtrying to navigate that in the
most effective right waypossible.
Drew Neisser (08:25):
So cutting the budget's really an interesting
thing.
And I've seen this and we've hadlots of conversations in, in CMO
huddles about budget cuts.
And typically what happens,let's say it's a 10% cut.
They'll look for the low hangingfruit in their staff.
They'll look at their lowhanging fruit with quote, the
underperforming media.
And.
(08:46):
They'll pretty much stop thereand they'll just cut those
things.
And, and what we talk a lotabout is you really need to
start again and say, I have anew budget, which means I have
to focus my budget in adifferent way.
I can't reach as many people.
I don't need as many staff, butwhat happens is they don't build
(09:08):
from the new plan.
They just cut where they are.
And so what you end up having isthey're still spending too much
on MarTech.
Okay.
Like, you'd be amazed anytimeyou see that number go over 10%.
In my mind, it's too much, butit's at 15 or 20 percent after a
cut.
And part of that is long termcontracts and so forth.
(09:28):
But that's part one of this isyou gotta, you gotta look at
your MarTech and you gotta cutit because there's no point in
having 15 percent of yourdollars, not going to something
that's, that's going to reach orto, or to generate demand or, or
at least enhance your brand,something.
Linda Fanaras (09:43):
Exactly.
Exactly.
Drew Neisser (09:45):
So that's part one.
Part two is rethinking yourstaffing.
All right.
So we have a smaller staff.
And we have a smaller targetaudience and we hopefully have a
more focused program.
Are we suffering at the rightway?
So you gotta step back.
You can't just simply say, well,that person's only been here
three months.
We can get rid of them.
And that person is not reallyperforming very well.
(10:07):
And so that's the post cutplanning process needs to be
rethought.
That's part one of this.
I've got more thoughts on, onthe CMO playbook that will get
them through this period.
Linda Fanaras (10:19):
And on the staffing side too.
I mean, there are alternatives.
You're right.
It's not just, Oh, they juststarted.
Let's cut them.
It's really analyzing.
What needs to get executed andhow to best execute that in the
most cost effective waypossible.
And that might includecontractors or working with very
niche agencies and otherstrategies like that.
Drew Neisser (10:40):
Exactly.
Yeah, exactly.
Right.
So you could think about, allright, well, we're doing a lot
less of this.
Do we even need to have that inhouse anymore?
Linda Fanaras (10:48):
Exactly.
Or is that costing us too muchmoney to execute?
Would that be more effectiveoutside using a different
strategy or tactic?
Drew Neisser (10:57):
And so you also asked about how AI is and this
is a real problem in theindustry right now.
So there's a perception outthere.
Well, AI could just create allyour content.
So you don't even need contentstaffing and nothing could be
further from the truth becauseAI generated content on its own
is useless.
Absolutely useless.
(11:17):
I'm not saying that there aren'ta million ways of using A.
I.
To generate better content, butthat's not necessarily getting
rid of your best writers andthis relates right to the C.
M.
O.
Which is They're looking at chatGPT and these tools solely as
content generators.
(11:38):
And to me, that's so problematicbecause that's the low hanging
fruit of this thing.
And in truth, most of thatcontent isn't going to be what
you, what's going to help youreally differentiate from What
will help you differentiateusing these tools for sales
enablement to create the widgetsthat you couldn't create before
that you'd needed a programmerand you had to wait for your it
(12:00):
guys and all that.
You can figure out how to createthese widgets, which actually be
T and a heartbeat.
Linda Fanaras (12:05):
So
Drew Neisser (12:06):
Suddenly, if you have a big idea and you know
this from running an agency,when you have a big idea, you
can iterate against it.
Right?
So we have this big idea.
Okay, now let's iterate.
How many different ways could weexecute the same idea and bring
it to life from a salesenablement from a customer
experience?
All that.
And that's where it's mindbogglingly cool.
(12:26):
That's part one.
Part two is using AI forstrategy.
So it's really an interestingtime and I, I think that you
could probably use a generativeAI for just about everything.
And and I find myself doing thatmore and more.
I find that like we have a, wesupport a group of CMOs in
transition and there's someamazing things that you can do
(12:49):
from an interview prepstandpoint, from an analysis of
your questions and the answersfrom how to deal with tough
questions to practicing, tocreating your, it's unbelievable
how how effective that's thatis.
So, anyway, there's no suchthing as a CMO who isn't
embracing these things.
It's just a question of how.
Linda Fanaras (13:10):
So to your point on that, and I think AI is a, is
a really good example because,you know, some companies do not
want to touch it.
Other companies are using it foreverything, but from a marketing
perspective, to your point, Ithink it's a great opportunity
to use AI for ideation, maybe tobe able to build up, you know,
concepts around strategies thatcould be a little unique and not
(13:33):
the same old, just to, just tostart that process going,
obviously it writes content.
We know that.
It writes, you know, can writevery generic content, and to
your point, you want to get Awriter that can actually sort of
make it into something uniqueand different and not just
generic content.
So it does provide a greatpurpose.
It's just how do you use that inthe most effective way possible,
Drew Neisser (13:56):
right?
And how do you get it?
The usage beyond the CMO, Imean, I think CMOs need to be
using it.
They tend to be some really jumpat it.
Some just delegated and I, youknow, that's unfortunate cause
they don't get to see possiblethat way.
That's a funny moment becausewhen you say that there are
companies that don't want totouch it, it reminds me in the
(14:16):
year 2000, three of us fromdigital land went to visit craft
and the whole marketingdepartment said, Hey, there's
this internet thing and you gotto get on it.
And none of the employees atcraft at that time had access to
the internet because the, the,you know, the head of the
company was afraid thateverybody would look at porn,
you know, I mean, it washilarious.
(14:38):
And, and so, you know, theyended up being way, way behind.
They caught up.
They figured it out, but there'ssome first mover advantage to be
had.
Linda Fanaras (14:46):
Absolutely.
So I've heard all kinds ofthings in the B2B space, you
know, looking at the economy,looking at the emotions that tie
into the stock market, lookingat all different types of areas
within the B2B space.
Do you think there's a hiddenrecession right now?
Drew Neisser (15:04):
Oh my God.
Yeah.
Oh, I, I don't think there's anydoubt.
All you have to do is you sitdown, have a one on one with a
CMO and this came out in ourresearch, but ask them how is
your deal cycle longer orshorter than it was six months
ago or a year ago?
Linda Fanaras (15:18):
Longer.
Drew Neisser (15:20):
That's number one.
Is your close rate better orworse than it was 12 months ago?
Right.
Worse.
Right.
And so those two things alone,and then how many, Deals.
Did you think you were going todo where the customer didn't buy
anything?
Right?
All of those are clearindications.
And you know, how many of thehead layoffs, like 50 percent in
(15:42):
our survey in March had hadlayoffs.
I know that number has gone up.
And that's the company and 41percent had layoffs in
marketing.
So I don't think there's anydoubt that in B to B,
particularly like in SAS thereis a session, a recession.
Again, there are alwaysexceptions to all of these
things.
I mean, there's some companiesthat are killing it.
(16:02):
Out there.
I suspect many of these othercompanies will turn it around
because there's, you know,recessions are a sentiment.
It's an emotional feeling.
I'm not going to buy now becauseI'm worried about our business
tomorrow going to happen.
When the sentiment gets better,people make purchase decisions.
And so they're more risk aversethan they usually are right now.
(16:25):
So, yeah, it makes sense.
Linda Fanaras (16:28):
The, the buying cycle is longer too.
It can take longer.
It seems to be taking longer nowas well.
Yeah.
Instances, some industries.
So what do you think's workingfor the B2B CMOs right now?
Drew Neisser (16:41):
Well, you know, this is the thing that, that I,
I emphasized in the recessionreport, the hidden recession
report that we did.
I gave three things that I thinkCMOs can do right now to not
just protect their job, butdeliver more for their
companies.
Part one is think aboutexpanding the role.
(17:01):
So we call it CMO plus and findthat thing that you can grab,
whether it's internal comms orcorporate comms customer
experience or customer success.
If that's a separate thing, addthat to your portfolio.
Because one, it makes.
your salary and so forth, thatmuch more efficient to the
(17:22):
organization, but two, it willget the CFO, the CEO, the CRO to
look at you slightlydifferently, more as a business
professional and less at, Oh,just the marketer.
So that's part one.
Part two is focus.
You know, I mean, let's face it.
The definition of strategy iswhat you say no to.
(17:42):
And what I see when I see most Bto B plans is what we call the
peanut butter effect.
Too many targets, too manymessage, too much splinter, no
resonant, big idea.
And they're losing the battle.
They are not known for anything.
They're, you know, they're,they're trying to, and they've
sliced and diced their targetand their message.
(18:03):
The point that they don't have abrand, they don't stand for
anything.
So idea concentration, numbertwo number three is obviously AI
implementation beyond content.
And then number three, four isreally rethinking spending
Linda Fanaras (18:17):
less
Drew Neisser (18:18):
on MarTech.
the swing over the last fouryears has been 90, 95 percent
quote demand gen, 10 percent onbrand and really got to fix that
and you know, don't use the wordbrand, use the word reputation
because that seems to be lessfluffy and people understand
that.
But the point is that if youjust keep sending emails and go
(18:42):
to the vents and expect yourbrand to grow, you're going to
have a problem.
Linda Fanaras (18:46):
Yeah.
So getting more and morecluttered every minute.
Absolutely.
So this, so I have one finalquestion.
This one's super easy.
And I'll let you, I'll let youshare a little bit about your
book.
Drew Neisser (18:58):
Oh, sure.
Thank you.
Just happen to have a copy righthere.
Randy Martin, 12 Steps toBuilding Unbeatable V Brands.
What I love and I, you know,we've gotten lots of folks to
write reviews about it and they,what they enjoy are the stories.
It's what we remember.
It's also sort of part of thebook is the medium is the
message.
If I, if this was boring, that'dbe a problem because this is
(19:18):
sort of B2B marketing.
I'm talking to marketers.
And I really wrote, I justincluded.
I don't know, 60, 70 differentstories within here, some of
which are really dramatic.
And like one of my favoritestories in the book, cause I had
the privilege of naming thetough book for Panasonic and
launching it.
And the way we launched it waswhen we got the first prototype
(19:40):
from Japan, we ran over it livefor, you know, good morning
America from the equivalent ofCES with a Hummer, a 6, 000
pound Hummer.
So it was, and you know, youcould just imagine the engineer
sweating, but you know, it's,it's the kind of story that I
include in the book to sort ofinspire folks.
(20:03):
strategically and simply to domarketing that makes a
difference.
Linda Fanaras (20:09):
Think out of the box a little, right?
Well, everyone, I just want totake a moment and thank you for
tuning into the B2B Brand 180podcast today.
We hope that you found theinsights and strategies shared
to be valuable and actionable.
Thanks so much, Drew.
That was great to have you heretoday.
So I would love for you to sharehow businesses can get in touch
with you, how CMOs can get intouch with you.
Drew Neisser (20:30):
Sure.
It's Drew Nizer on LinkedIn.
I have a pretty big followingthere.
Or you can go to CMO huddles.
com and you, you can find methere.
And feel free to, you know,after, after Linda's podcast,
you can also check out renegademarketing.
com.
Linda Fanaras (20:46):
Yeah.
Drew Neisser (20:47):
Particularly if you're a B2B person.
Linda Fanaras (20:49):
Perfect.
And we'll also include all yourinformation in the comments as
well, Drew.
So that should be great.
I'm Linda Feneres, host of theB2B Brand 180 podcast and CEO of
Millennium Agency.
You can visit us at millmill.
agency or lindafeneres.
com or you can just connect withme on LinkedIn.
I'd love to take questions, sofeel free to ask any question
(21:10):
you'd like.
Thanks again for listening tothe B2B Brand 180 podcast.
I'm Linda Finares, host of the B2B Brand
CEO of Millennium Agency, whereyou'll learn all the latest tips
on how to grow your businesswith branding, strategy and
other lead generation.
Today, I am super excited tobring in Drew Neiser.
(00:20):
He has had a large careerspecifically working for some
big agencies and he foundedRenegade in 1993.
So he's won just about everyevery possible award out there
regarding creativity andmarketing effectiveness.
He's written some books andwhich I'm sure he'll share a
little bit more.
But what is great about Drew is,is he's really going to bring us
(00:44):
some insight today around B2Bmarketing and strategies that
really do work.
And one of the bestsellingauthors.
bear called him one of thestrongest B to B marketing
thinkers in the world, which hesays makes him laugh, but what
makes his wife laugh.
But I'm actually going to askhim a few questions about that.
(01:05):
So welcome drew.
Super happy to have you heretoday.
Thanks for joining in.
Drew Neisser (01:09):
Thank you.
The last four years have been ajoy ride doing CMO huddles,
which is part of the way I'vereally become this B2B expert.
So, anyway, thank you for doingthis.
I know how much work it is to doa podcast, so I really
appreciate being on your show.
Linda Fanaras (01:23):
No, I love having you here.
So is there anything else you'dlike to add about your
background today?
Drew Neisser (01:28):
Gosh, you know, I am I'm a passionate marketer and
I've been interviewing CMOs forwell over 10 plus years
probably, I think it's I've lostcount.
It's over 600 and that is likemy mana.
That's how being able to talk toCMOs, interview them, go through
their case histories has reallygiven me a pretty profound look
(01:48):
at it at the, the challengesCMOs face, particularly in B2B
and also.
As a coach, which I do more andmore of both in the capacity of
CMO huddles as that's if youthink about it as a large
coaching group, but also one onone.
Linda Fanaras (02:02):
Awesome.
So my first question really toyou, Drew, is why do you think
you were defined as one of thestrongest B2B marketing thinkers
in the world?
That's a pretty big statement.
Drew Neisser (02:13):
You know, I, I so I just sent Jay a copy of my
book and Jay has been on mypodcast a couple of times, but I
tell you what, almost once,maybe once a month some I'll get
a praise for something.
Someone will send some nicefeedback and my wife will say,
That's because you're one of thestrong and she can't quite get
it exactly right.
(02:34):
So we have this big chuckle overit.
You know, I have been told thatit is when someone makes you
accomplishment, just accept it.
I'm one of those folks who ofcourse struggle with that.
But anyway I'm delighted thatJay said it.
I, I think my book RenegadeMarketing, 12 Steps to Building
Unbeatable Brands reallyresonated with him.
And we had enough conversationsand we've spoken at certain
(02:57):
events together that He has asense for my insight, I guess.
Linda Fanaras (03:01):
that's phenomenal.
So tell me on the B2B side,there are many, many different
types of B2B industries outthere.
Which ones do you think aredoing well?
Which ones are, I don't want tosay failing, but maybe not doing
so well.
What's your, what's yourthoughts on that?
Drew Neisser (03:16):
So I've got thoughts and then I've got
research.
So on the, on the research side,I could just hear, we did a
study of 121 B2B CMOs earlier inthe year, and 69 percent think
their industry is in arecession.
So that's, you know, that'salmost seven out of 10.
The only ones that didn't feellike they were in a recession
(03:37):
tend to have some AI componentthat was keeping them moving.
And, you know, going back tothat study for just a second.
The thing about it is that whenyour industry is a recession.
Your budget gets cut.
It gets harder to do it.
Buyers are much more likely notto buy or stretch out the deal
(03:59):
cycles.
And we saw all of that in thedata and CMOs are forced to cut
their staff and along with theirbudget.
So you just have what I woulddescribe for most as the most
stressful period in recentmemory for these folks.
I mean, 61 percent feel this isthe most professionally
(04:19):
challenging period of theirtime.
So.
There's like two economies outthere.
They're sort of B to B ingeneral.
And then there's sort of the AIfolks.
And I can say there's a littlebit of growth in health tech and
a little bit of growth in, butthere's no growth in MarTech.
So everybody's, it's a sharebattle.
So anyway, we all need interestrates to go down and And, and
(04:41):
when that happens we'll, we'llhave a lot more happy B2B
marketers.
Linda Fanaras (04:45):
I guess I'm wondering is manufacturing
versus energy versus otherthings.
Do you, did you take, do youhave any data related?
Drew Neisser (04:53):
So, you know, in general sense, obviously things
like solar are doing well, butthey're, they have supply chain
issues.
So, cause one of one of thehuddlers in our CMO huddles
community is works for for asolar company and their growth
is restrained by certainfactors.
So they should be doing well.
Martech.
(05:13):
Is not as a general rule is notdoing well at all.
And that's any kind of thingthat helps a marketer you know,
do their marketing moreefficiently or measure more
things.
So, in terms of manufacturingagain, look at, you know, you
have to look at it on anindividual basis.
These are still growing, butTesla isn't right.
(05:34):
There's pockets of success outthere, but it's pretty spotty
again.
I think if you threw a dart at aB to B company, chances are
you'd hit one that was not doingas well as they did in 2022.
Right?
Linda Fanaras (05:47):
You know, I'd love to talk more about the CMO
role because I've been aroundthe block for a while, so things
have just become more and morecomplicated for the CMO in so
many different ways.
There are so many different waysto market today.
There are so many differentthings to track.
It's hard to know what's workingand what's not, and it's
becoming more confusing.
So I'm just, from yourperspective, why is the CMO role
(06:11):
more challenging now than
Drew Neisser (06:12):
ever before?
So you're right.
You hit on a lot of the things.
I mean, besides the mediachoices and the technology and
the splintering of it you couldgo to almost any category and
you would probably find 50competitors in it.
So there's too many companieschasing the same, the same
customers.
It's very few brands have anykind of mind space, which is
(06:35):
really the objective of, of allof our marketing.
So.
The job has always been hard,and one of the primary reasons
that folks don't acknowledge isthat less than 20 percent of
CEOs, and it doesn't even matterwhat size company it is, in B2B
have any experience inmarketing.
Linda Fanaras (06:54):
That's interesting.
Drew Neisser (06:56):
And so you have executives who are making
decisions on budgets and whereto allocate budgets who have no
idea how, you know, how thesausage is made, so to speak,
how a marketing plan is puttogether.
They also don't really have asense for what differentiation
looks like.
And so, and how long it takes.
And that's a real problembecause, and by the way, this,
(07:18):
company, this couldn't hamanagers control the budg P.
N.
L.
They know what d doesn't workthat way in have a lot of
disconnecti CEOs.
I write about this a lot onLinkedIn.
You have CEOs who say, justspend money on ways to get me
(07:40):
leads.
That's all they want.
It doesn't work that way.
If you don't understand howmarketing works and how brands
are built as a CEO, you aredoomed to be frustrated with
your CMO.
Linda Fanaras (07:53):
Right.
Right.
Yes.
Like it's cast a wide net.
It doesn't work that way.
Drew Neisser (07:58):
Right.
Linda Fanaras (07:58):
Right.
So when it comes to that CMOrole you know, and they are
looking at difficult,challenging times, how do you
think they should go about maybecutting their budgets, looking
at staffing You know, or go tomarket plan and how does AI plan
into all this now?
Sure.
Because that's a whole otherelement that I think, you know,
(08:19):
marketers are dealing with andtrying to navigate that in the
most effective right waypossible.
Drew Neisser (08:25):
So cutting the budget's really an interesting
thing.
And I've seen this and we've hadlots of conversations in, in CMO
huddles about budget cuts.
And typically what happens,let's say it's a 10% cut.
They'll look for the low hangingfruit in their staff.
They'll look at their lowhanging fruit with quote, the
underperforming media.
And.
(08:46):
They'll pretty much stop thereand they'll just cut those
things.
And, and what we talk a lotabout is you really need to
start again and say, I have anew budget, which means I have
to focus my budget in adifferent way.
I can't reach as many people.
I don't need as many staff, butwhat happens is they don't build
(09:08):
from the new plan.
They just cut where they are.
And so what you end up having isthey're still spending too much
on MarTech.
Okay.
Like, you'd be amazed anytimeyou see that number go over 10%.
In my mind, it's too much, butit's at 15 or 20 percent after a
cut.
And part of that is long termcontracts and so forth.
(09:28):
But that's part one of this isyou gotta, you gotta look at
your MarTech and you gotta cutit because there's no point in
having 15 percent of yourdollars, not going to something
that's, that's going to reach orto, or to generate demand or, or
at least enhance your brand,something.
Linda Fanaras (09:43):
Exactly.
Exactly.
Drew Neisser (09:45):
So that's part one.
Part two is rethinking yourstaffing.
All right.
So we have a smaller staff.
And we have a smaller targetaudience and we hopefully have a
more focused program.
Are we suffering at the rightway?
So you gotta step back.
You can't just simply say, well,that person's only been here
three months.
We can get rid of them.
And that person is not reallyperforming very well.
(10:07):
And so that's the post cutplanning process needs to be
rethought.
That's part one of this.
I've got more thoughts on, onthe CMO playbook that will get
them through this period.
Linda Fanaras (10:19):
And on the staffing side too.
I mean, there are alternatives.
You're right.
It's not just, Oh, they juststarted.
Let's cut them.
It's really analyzing.
What needs to get executed andhow to best execute that in the
most cost effective waypossible.
And that might includecontractors or working with very
niche agencies and otherstrategies like that.
Drew Neisser (10:40):
Exactly.
Yeah, exactly.
Right.
So you could think about, allright, well, we're doing a lot
less of this.
Do we even need to have that inhouse anymore?
Linda Fanaras (10:48):
Exactly.
Or is that costing us too muchmoney to execute?
Would that be more effectiveoutside using a different
strategy or tactic?
Drew Neisser (10:57):
And so you also asked about how AI is and this
is a real problem in theindustry right now.
So there's a perception outthere.
Well, AI could just create allyour content.
So you don't even need contentstaffing and nothing could be
further from the truth becauseAI generated content on its own
is useless.
Absolutely useless.
(11:17):
I'm not saying that there aren'ta million ways of using A.
I.
To generate better content, butthat's not necessarily getting
rid of your best writers andthis relates right to the C.
M.
O.
Which is They're looking at chatGPT and these tools solely as
content generators.
(11:38):
And to me, that's so problematicbecause that's the low hanging
fruit of this thing.
And in truth, most of thatcontent isn't going to be what
you, what's going to help youreally differentiate from What
will help you differentiateusing these tools for sales
enablement to create the widgetsthat you couldn't create before
that you'd needed a programmerand you had to wait for your it
(12:00):
guys and all that.
You can figure out how to createthese widgets, which actually be
T and a heartbeat.
Linda Fanaras (12:05):
So
Drew Neisser (12:06):
Suddenly, if you have a big idea and you know
this from running an agency,when you have a big idea, you
can iterate against it.
Right?
So we have this big idea.
Okay, now let's iterate.
How many different ways could weexecute the same idea and bring
it to life from a salesenablement from a customer
experience?
All that.
And that's where it's mindbogglingly cool.
(12:26):
That's part one.
Part two is using AI forstrategy.
So it's really an interestingtime and I, I think that you
could probably use a generativeAI for just about everything.
And and I find myself doing thatmore and more.
I find that like we have a, wesupport a group of CMOs in
transition and there's someamazing things that you can do
(12:49):
from an interview prepstandpoint, from an analysis of
your questions and the answersfrom how to deal with tough
questions to practicing, tocreating your, it's unbelievable
how how effective that's thatis.
So, anyway, there's no suchthing as a CMO who isn't
embracing these things.
It's just a question of how.
Linda Fanaras (13:10):
So to your point on that, and I think AI is a, is
a really good example because,you know, some companies do not
want to touch it.
Other companies are using it foreverything, but from a marketing
perspective, to your point, Ithink it's a great opportunity
to use AI for ideation, maybe tobe able to build up, you know,
concepts around strategies thatcould be a little unique and not
(13:33):
the same old, just to, just tostart that process going,
obviously it writes content.
We know that.
It writes, you know, can writevery generic content, and to
your point, you want to get Awriter that can actually sort of
make it into something uniqueand different and not just
generic content.
So it does provide a greatpurpose.
It's just how do you use that inthe most effective way possible,
Drew Neisser (13:56):
right?
And how do you get it?
The usage beyond the CMO, Imean, I think CMOs need to be
using it.
They tend to be some really jumpat it.
Some just delegated and I, youknow, that's unfortunate cause
they don't get to see possiblethat way.
That's a funny moment becausewhen you say that there are
companies that don't want totouch it, it reminds me in the
(14:16):
year 2000, three of us fromdigital land went to visit craft
and the whole marketingdepartment said, Hey, there's
this internet thing and you gotto get on it.
And none of the employees atcraft at that time had access to
the internet because the, the,you know, the head of the
company was afraid thateverybody would look at porn,
you know, I mean, it washilarious.
(14:38):
And, and so, you know, theyended up being way, way behind.
They caught up.
They figured it out, but there'ssome first mover advantage to be
had.
Linda Fanaras (14:46):
Absolutely.
So I've heard all kinds ofthings in the B2B space, you
know, looking at the economy,looking at the emotions that tie
into the stock market, lookingat all different types of areas
within the B2B space.
Do you think there's a hiddenrecession right now?
Drew Neisser (15:04):
Oh my God.
Yeah.
Oh, I, I don't think there's anydoubt.
All you have to do is you sitdown, have a one on one with a
CMO and this came out in ourresearch, but ask them how is
your deal cycle longer orshorter than it was six months
ago or a year ago?
Linda Fanaras (15:18):
Longer.
Drew Neisser (15:20):
That's number one.
Is your close rate better orworse than it was 12 months ago?
Right.
Worse.
Right.
And so those two things alone,and then how many, Deals.
Did you think you were going todo where the customer didn't buy
anything?
Right?
All of those are clearindications.
And you know, how many of thehead layoffs, like 50 percent in
(15:42):
our survey in March had hadlayoffs.
I know that number has gone up.
And that's the company and 41percent had layoffs in
marketing.
So I don't think there's anydoubt that in B to B,
particularly like in SAS thereis a session, a recession.
Again, there are alwaysexceptions to all of these
things.
I mean, there's some companiesthat are killing it.
(16:02):
Out there.
I suspect many of these othercompanies will turn it around
because there's, you know,recessions are a sentiment.
It's an emotional feeling.
I'm not going to buy now becauseI'm worried about our business
tomorrow going to happen.
When the sentiment gets better,people make purchase decisions.
And so they're more risk aversethan they usually are right now.
(16:25):
So, yeah, it makes sense.
Linda Fanaras (16:28):
The, the buying cycle is longer too.
It can take longer.
It seems to be taking longer nowas well.
Yeah.
Instances, some industries.
So what do you think's workingfor the B2B CMOs right now?
Drew Neisser (16:41):
Well, you know, this is the thing that, that I,
I emphasized in the recessionreport, the hidden recession
report that we did.
I gave three things that I thinkCMOs can do right now to not
just protect their job, butdeliver more for their
companies.
Part one is think aboutexpanding the role.
(17:01):
So we call it CMO plus and findthat thing that you can grab,
whether it's internal comms orcorporate comms customer
experience or customer success.
If that's a separate thing, addthat to your portfolio.
Because one, it makes.
your salary and so forth, thatmuch more efficient to the
(17:22):
organization, but two, it willget the CFO, the CEO, the CRO to
look at you slightlydifferently, more as a business
professional and less at, Oh,just the marketer.
So that's part one.
Part two is focus.
You know, I mean, let's face it.
The definition of strategy iswhat you say no to.
(17:42):
And what I see when I see most Bto B plans is what we call the
peanut butter effect.
Too many targets, too manymessage, too much splinter, no
resonant, big idea.
And they're losing the battle.
They are not known for anything.
They're, you know, they're,they're trying to, and they've
sliced and diced their targetand their message.
(18:03):
The point that they don't have abrand, they don't stand for
anything.
So idea concentration, numbertwo number three is obviously AI
implementation beyond content.
And then number three, four isreally rethinking spending
Linda Fanaras (18:17):
less
Drew Neisser (18:18):
on MarTech.
the swing over the last fouryears has been 90, 95 percent
quote demand gen, 10 percent onbrand and really got to fix that
and you know, don't use the wordbrand, use the word reputation
because that seems to be lessfluffy and people understand
that.
But the point is that if youjust keep sending emails and go
(18:42):
to the vents and expect yourbrand to grow, you're going to
have a problem.
Linda Fanaras (18:46):
Yeah.
So getting more and morecluttered every minute.
Absolutely.
So this, so I have one finalquestion.
This one's super easy.
And I'll let you, I'll let youshare a little bit about your
book.
Drew Neisser (18:58):
Oh, sure.
Thank you.
Just happen to have a copy righthere.
Randy Martin, 12 Steps toBuilding Unbeatable V Brands.
What I love and I, you know,we've gotten lots of folks to
write reviews about it and they,what they enjoy are the stories.
It's what we remember.
It's also sort of part of thebook is the medium is the
message.
If I, if this was boring, that'dbe a problem because this is
(19:18):
sort of B2B marketing.
I'm talking to marketers.
And I really wrote, I justincluded.
I don't know, 60, 70 differentstories within here, some of
which are really dramatic.
And like one of my favoritestories in the book, cause I had
the privilege of naming thetough book for Panasonic and
launching it.
And the way we launched it waswhen we got the first prototype
(19:40):
from Japan, we ran over it livefor, you know, good morning
America from the equivalent ofCES with a Hummer, a 6, 000
pound Hummer.
So it was, and you know, youcould just imagine the engineer
sweating, but you know, it's,it's the kind of story that I
include in the book to sort ofinspire folks.
(20:03):
strategically and simply to domarketing that makes a
difference.
Linda Fanaras (20:09):
Think out of the box a little, right?
Well, everyone, I just want totake a moment and thank you for
tuning into the B2B Brand 180podcast today.
We hope that you found theinsights and strategies shared
to be valuable and actionable.
Thanks so much, Drew.
That was great to have you heretoday.
So I would love for you to sharehow businesses can get in touch
with you, how CMOs can get intouch with you.
Drew Neisser (20:30):
Sure.
It's Drew Nizer on LinkedIn.
I have a pretty big followingthere.
Or you can go to CMO huddles.
com and you, you can find methere.
And feel free to, you know,after, after Linda's podcast,
you can also check out renegademarketing.
com.
Linda Fanaras (20:46):
Yeah.
Drew Neisser (20:47):
Particularly if you're a B2B person.
Linda Fanaras (20:49):
Perfect.
And we'll also include all yourinformation in the comments as
well, Drew.
So that should be great.
I'm Linda Feneres, host of theB2B Brand 180 podcast and CEO of
Millennium Agency.
You can visit us at millmill.
agency or lindafeneres.
com or you can just connect withme on LinkedIn.
I'd love to take questions, sofeel free to ask any question
(21:10):
you'd like.
Thanks again for listening tothe B2B Brand 180 podcast.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
Ridiculous History
History is beautiful, brutal and, often, ridiculous. Join Ben Bowlin and Noel Brown as they dive into some of the weirdest stories from across the span of human civilization in Ridiculous History, a podcast by iHeartRadio.