May 29, 2024 • 45 mins
Nana is back in California! They’re discussing Meredith’s Day 5 4BB and Day 7 4BA embryos (better known at Chip & Dale); the nail-biting wait on genetic test results, whether or not to learn the sex, and if so, WHEN?
TOPICS COVERED
- 0:00 - Introduction and Catch Up
- 04:09 - Should I find out the sex of my embryos?
- 16:10 - “The Parents Who Want Daughters and Daughters Only” by Emi Nietfeld
- 22:30 - The Birth of the BLASTOSHOWER
- 23:56 - Survival Rates of Female/Male Embryos
- 33:34 - Processing Grief Over Lost Eggs and Embryos
ARTICLES DISCUSSED
- The Parents Who Want Daughters and Daughters Only, Emi Nietfeld for Slate
- Survival of the Fetus: Why Males Have it So Rough, LiveScience
- Female embryos less likely to survive to birth, University of Oxford
- Embryo quality, ploidy, and transfer outcomes in male versus female blastocysts, National Institutes of Health
PLACES MENTIONED
---
I'm becoming a single mother by choice using a known donor; I'm so stoked to be having a baby with my gay best friend. After a few tries with the turkey baster in 2023, I turned to IVF in Spring of 2024.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
In college, my gay best friend and I joked that if
we hadn't found love by 40, we'dhave a baby with each other 20
years later.
I'm pulling the ripcord.
I'm deciding on solo motherhood, to choosing IVF.
I'm Meredith and this is theBackup Plan.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
So so You're here now .
Speaker 3 (00:19):
I'm here now.
I'm sitting in your new sofafor the first time.
What do you think?
Speaker 2 (00:23):
It's nice and cushy you like it yeah, do you like?
It.
Kitty likes it, kitty likes it.
Okay, so how do you feel, sincethe last time you were here,
like there was a lot that youdidn't get to be here for?
Speaker 3 (00:39):
I know I missed that.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Sorry, that's okay.
I called you one night andreally was like upset that you
weren't going to be here for theegg retrieval and I was like I
really want you here, because myunderstanding was that that was
a tough thing to go through,which it ended up not being.
But I feel like I had troublecommunicating to you that I
(01:01):
really wanted you out here and Ikind of had to get firm about
it, like, do you recall thatconversation?
Speaker 3 (01:07):
I remember telling you, if you need me here, I will
drop everything and get on aplane and come out.
Yeah, but then you decided thatyou had somebody to help you
through it.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
It ended up working out okay and it's fine.
It just wasn't as like pain andlabor intensive as I thought it
was going to be.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
And I'm good.
I'm grateful for that, yeah,yeah, because I would have felt
awful if you called and told mehow much pain you were in.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
I was just gassy, so I just had the ability to fart
freely and not really worryabout it, with confidence.
I farted freely and withconfidence and ended up being
okay.
But what, how, how have youfelt in the past couple of weeks
Like watching it from afar.
I called you every night for Iwatched every.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
I missed one shot because you had to do it in the
morning, yes, before anappointment.
Yes, that's the only shot Imissed, so I did get to go
through all the shots.
Yeah, um, it was a difficulttime for what I was doing and
just trying to get that done andknowing what you were going
through.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
It was wasn't easy, but we did it yeah, it sucks
because I wanted to be there tohelp you move.
Um, for context, my mom has ahouse a small house in the town
that I went to college and aseparate house in Orlando, and
the house in St Augustine soldand she had to move a whole
(02:31):
bunch of stuff, but that househad a whole treasure trove of
artifacts from our history, 51years of marriage and 39 years
of children, yeah, and so therewas a lot in the garage that she
ended up going through alonewhich, if I was there, I would
have just like chucked it,chugga, chugga, choo, chooed my
way through everything.
(02:51):
Yeah and uh, it sucked to notbe there as physical strength,
as emotional strength, and totell you when to take a break,
because you don't have anybodythere, and you wouldn't listen
to me when I told you.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
I want to take a break, because you don't have
anybody there and you wouldn'tlisten to me when I told you so
I just I just wanted to get itdone.
You know, there was so muchthat had to be done and I wanted
to get out here.
So it was just do it and getout here as fast as I could.
Yeah, and it worked.
I sold the house settlement onthe 24th, okay, and um, now I'm
here and we can get on with babymaking.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Well, you don't have to get on with it, that's
nothing you have to do.
I have to go through theemotional trauma of being a new
nana, yeah, yeah.
And so the place that I'm atright now in time is that we're
still waiting on the genetictest results, which is
frustrating because I'm likewhen is it going to happen?
Speaker 3 (03:42):
You just always want to be one step ahead in schedule
.
That's okay, I do too.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
I just have it planned and I know what the next
step is and I just want to getto it, but I still feel good
about it.
I feel nervous about feelinggood about it, but it is what it
is, and part of the reason Iwanted to record with you today
is because I am trying to decidewhat I'm going to do with the
(04:12):
answers of this test, and one ofthe things that I can know, and
they are testing for right now,is sex, and I can know the sex
of the baby and can basicallychoose.
Now there are two embryos.
So one is a 4BB five-dayblastocyst and the other is a
(04:35):
4BA seven-day blastocyst.
The 4BA is a better grade butbecause it's a seven day
blastocyst, it's not the choiceone.
So the choice one is the fiveday, because it's more important
that it's a five day blastocystthan it is that it has the
better grade.
So the 4BB is the one that ismost likely the transfer baby at
(05:01):
this moment.
Now, yeah, I, because I have twoembryos, I can, I can know what
the sex of them are and I don'tknow if I want to know.
I've joked with michael thateven if I had one, that wasn't
as good, which is as good, uh,which is the seven day embryo.
(05:24):
I joked with him that, yeah,but if it's not as good and it's
a girl, it's still, but it'sprobably still better, uh, but
uh, I don't know, I don't knowwhere I'm at, whether or not I
want to find out, because it'sjust two embryos and one is
definitely better than the other.
So it's not like genderselection at this point, it's,
(05:48):
it's their gender made already.
Speaker 3 (05:50):
Yeah, so I don't know , I want to say make me a girl
or make me a boy, yeah, it'salready made.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
I want to know what your choices were in terms of
finding out sex along the way,and I just like give me the
history.
Well, we didn't have definitivesex identification Right.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
I mean some doctors would say, oh, the heart beats
faster, so it's, it's a girl,heart beats slower.
I kept telling my doctor Idon't want to.
He always there were fourdoctors in the practice and one
was really good at picking and Ikept telling all of them I
don't want to know.
And the day I had my visit withhim he went oh, he is doing
great, what about all?
(06:32):
And I went what?
And he goes slow heartbeat.
You're going to have a boy.
And he was like 99% right and Ijust turned to him and said
maybe it's a calm girl.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
And that was the first time I didn't let a man
stand in my way I might have hada penis and I just shriveled it
back up and said, fuck that.
Speaker 3 (06:57):
And I just said I'm not listening to him because I
said I didn't want to know andmaybe he's wrong, so I didn't
believe him.
Here I am and I mean I don'tknow if there was, I could have
had amniocentesis.
I guess they can tell youthrough that, but I chose not to
have that either.
Why I first of all worriedabout I guess it was something
(07:17):
new and I didn't want to run therisk of having a problem
because I had it.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
Do you know if amniocentesis has changed from
when you were pregnant with meto now?
I mean it's been 40 years.
Speaker 3 (07:31):
I assume it's changed .
No, I haven't kept up withamniocentesis procedures.
Okay so, and I at that point Ifelt, no matter what, I'm going
to keep this baby anyway.
So why bother?
Why find out that you're goingto have a baby that has problems
and then worry about it for thenext nine months, next seven
months?
Well, I guess they do it a fourmonth, so it'd be five months
(07:52):
of worrying.
Yeah, where I can just plan onhaving a healthy baby and if
anything goes wrong I'll dealwith it.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Yeah, I don't recall if we had this conversation on
the last podcast, but I've hadso many conversations with you
about this whole journey andwe've talked a lot, a lot, a lot
about it, and I know I've askedyou this.
If you had the chance to findout now, would you?
Speaker 3 (08:14):
I've thought about that and at first I went, no, no
, no, I want to be surprised.
I want to hear them say on thedelivery table it's a girl or
it's a boy.
But now that I think about it,and especially since we've had
two babies, and one of each kind, in our family, it's like, well
, maybe it's a good idea, why?
Well, it gives you a chance toplan quote, plan the nursery or
(08:39):
buy the layette and just getready, I think.
I also think that maybe youfind out you're having the sex
of a baby that you didn't wantthe sex of.
It gives you a chance to bondwith that baby and say, oh yeah,
so it's a boy, it's cool, it'sgreat.
So when a baby comes out, youknow it's going to be a little
(08:59):
boy or a little girl and you'regoing to be.
Hey, I'm ready for this, right.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
Now with the babies in our family my niece and
nephew we knew it was towardsthe end of the pregnancy that we
found out about, um, the heartdefects that Mars had.
But we found we knew earlierabout Phoebe's complications,
right, and so I know something.
I recall having a conversationwith you where you told me that
(09:24):
you were really like she becamemore real, knowing it was a girl
and it was Phoebe.
I mean, it kind of went backand forth on names a little bit,
right, yeah, but that you had.
It was like there's the littlegirl that we have to.
Speaker 3 (09:43):
Yeah, we got to get prepared for this.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
Well, just that you're pulling for her, and that
was better for you to know thatit was a little girl that you
were pulling for.
Not that it would matter if itwas a boy, but just that like
it's just a preparation.
Speaker 3 (09:59):
It makes that baby realize real you were always
Harvey.
Why I used to call you Harvey?
Because I watched a movie fromthe 1930s with Jimmy Stewart and
he had some mental issues andhe always saw a giant white
rabbit named Harvey and I lovedthat movie and I love bunny
(10:21):
rabbits.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
So you became Harvey.
Did you feel like I was makingyou mentally unstable?
Speaker 3 (10:27):
no, okay, I was, I was checking, very stable, just
like now, um, and yeah, so it,just it also.
It was something unseen andunknown to anybody else.
Only jimmy stewart could see,harvey, only I could feel you
and and what did you call Dylan,my brother?
He was at the beginning.
(10:48):
It was all Harvey number two ishere, but then he never.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
I never really called him Harvey all the time.
Right, because you called himsomething else.
Speaker 3 (11:02):
The Predator.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
Oh well, he used to push on my stomach so hard with
his foot it looked it was goingto pop out.
Yeah well wait.
Was it predator or alien?
Speaker 3 (11:10):
probably alien, alien .
I was gonna say I don'tremember the predator, but yeah,
we had watched the movie alienwhile I was pregnant.
Yeah, it was like look at thatfoot.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
So if you were in my place you would find out as soon
as possible, or like, cause it,cause here's.
Here's.
My thought process is if theyboth test a okay, I know I'm
going with a five day firstShould I find out immediately,
(11:39):
as soon as I can, when they theycall and they say both embryos
are great, which they're gonnado, power positive thinking, um,
should I find out at thatmoment or should I wait until,
like, the first scan where theycan see?
That's kind of what I'm goingback and forth on now or do I
(12:01):
wait until the very, very end?
Speaker 3 (12:03):
yeah and I don't know , because so I would imagine you
want to know immediately.
Knowing you, yeah, but so thenI'm, part of me is like I think
they should send me a textmessage and we should have a
lovely dinner out and I couldhave some wine, so I could cry a
lot and then I could tell you,okay, just Just you and me.
Yeah, at dinner, yeah, okay,and then we could have a party
(12:27):
for people.
Oh, the cat just bit me.
Say that.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
Stop it, the cat's playing with your toes.
Speaker 3 (12:34):
Behave, stop playing with my feet.
And then we'd have a party andwe could bake the cake.
And if it was pink or blue, I'mof three different minds about
this.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
Like I do want to know as soon as possible.
I like gut instinct is to knowas soon as possible.
Like, tell me, I want to knowit all.
I like information.
Let me put it on a spreadsheet,you know, but I'm trying to.
I'm like is that am Iinformation?
Let me put it on a spreadsheet,you know, but I'm trying to I'm
(13:09):
like is that, am I nottraditional enough?
And now am I like my worst enemyhere?
Would it be better if I didn'tknow at all?
Is that more special?
Should I like hold myself backfrom myself and like just enjoy
the process as it comes?
(13:30):
That's kind of my thought there, and that that because so much
of this is so planned out allthe way that there is some kind
of like beauty in not knowingthat because everything else has
been super planned out.
Okay, thought number one, onethat's number one.
(13:50):
Uh, well, you could do like waitmidway through thought number
two is to wait until you do getthe scans done and then do some
sort of a do a sex reveal,because it's not a gender reveal
, it's a sex reveal and which,like I have gotten mad about
(14:10):
those in the past kind ofirrationally, probably, because
it just feels so like tied tonotions of gender.
But it's not, it doesn't haveto be that, it can just be a
cute, it's a boy or it's a girl.
Like you can't deny the biologythere of like what's happening
Right, and in most cases thebiology says it's one way or the
other way.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
Yeah, it could go crazy, or it could just be.
It could be tasteful.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
I could do it tastefully.
It doesn't have to be likebaseball and trucks or ballet
and unicorns, like it can justbe a it's this or it's a that.
So that's option number two,and option number three is to
just know immediately.
But I think my fear is that ifI know I have two girls or two
(14:55):
boys or a boy and a girl, that Ireally I'm going to humanize it
too much and if it doesn't workout, can it be like really
upset.
But then the other part of methinks if something doesn't
happen, you're going to want togo back and find out if it was a
girl or a boy and still likeI'm going to be upset regardless
if things don't work.
Speaker 3 (15:14):
I'm also curious to which kind of babies have a
better chance of making itthrough development.
I always heard that if babieswere born premature, that white
baby girls were the highestsurvival rate.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
But is that because they're white baby girls and
there is a bias?
Speaker 3 (15:35):
This was just a general study, right, but who is
giving the?
Speaker 2 (15:39):
care.
There is a deep-seated thingthat people will help the white
baby girl and care less aboutthe black baby boy.
Speaker 3 (15:48):
Let's look into is there a better chance of a boy
surviving a girl or a girl outsurviving a boy?
Speaker 2 (15:55):
So I'm actually going to bring up this point is a
really good time to bring upthis study that I found that I
sent to you.
So I have Apple News and this ison Slate and it's a story
called the parents who wantdaughters and daughters.
Only sex selection with IVF isbanned in much of the world not
in the US, and this is by EmmyNeatfield.
(16:16):
It's really interesting to talkabout and something I didn't
know is that sex selection Ijust thought it was part of the
process, that it was just youfind out and you can choose.
Oh, if I have two or three goodeggs and one is a baby boy and
the other two baby girls and Iwant a baby boy, and I can
choose that it's not in the restof the world, like I was so
(16:40):
surprised when I sent thisarticle to you that the only two
places this is allowed is hereand in cyprus.
Really, the rest of the worldit is illegal, like denmark and
sweden, correct?
Wow, it's considered unethical,which then when you start
thinking about it's like oh,yeah, it is because it's almost
like an opposite of the um onechild policy that china had and
(17:04):
people wanted boys there was alot of infanticide and illegal
abortions and stuff.
When they found out that theywere having girls and one of the
women in this article, uh,she's chinese and she felt like
it was, uh, like a big old, fuckyou to china.
Like I want a girl and nowthat's what'm going to have.
It's also some people that workin tech who are like they want
(17:28):
to engineer things, their wholefamily, and so they're doing IVF
and they're using a surrogateso that they can travel the
world and do whatever they wantto do and then have exactly the
baby and the family that they'replanning on having and then
also expecting those children toreally adhere to the gender
stereotypes of this is what boysare like.
(17:49):
This is what girls are like.
We don't want toxic boys, wewant well behaved, obedient
girls, which then, of course,feeds into the thing of like
women are obedient women.
Listen, women behave which isvery like trad wife bullshit
right about us do they?
Speaker 3 (18:02):
well, there used to be a thing I mean before you had
all this scientific assistancein choosing your gender where
you know, oh, if you have sexthis time of the of your
ovulation, you have a betterchance of having a boy.
Or if you eat a lot of acidfood right before you get
inseminated, it'll be a girl.
There used to be those kind ofways of chick picking and
(18:25):
choosing.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
Sure, but did you just say chick picking?
No, but true, is that whatwe're calling it now?
Speaker 4 (18:33):
Chick picking.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
Chick picking, chip picking yeah, there's a lot of
stuff.
To many, the prospect ofraising a girl just feels as if
it'll be easier.
She's far less to commit a massshooting or idolize Andrew Tate
.
She's also, points out, mayuriless likely to be diagnosed with
autism.
Although a man striving to makeas much money as possible might
feel capitalist and gross, awoman who does the same is a
(18:57):
girl boss, a beloved trope amongmillennials, which I don't
think.
That's true, but whatever.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
Some people's point of view is that who knows what
20 years from now will bring ofso?
Speaker 2 (19:08):
Yeah.
Still, the very act of sexselection is sexist, argues
Arian Chavisi, a professor ofphilosophy at Brighton and
Sussex Medical School in the UK,where elective sex selection is
illegal.
You can't actually foresee yourchild's gender, let alone how
they will choose to express itor the qualities they will
possess as a human being.
So sex selection requiresmaking a decision based on
(19:28):
stereotypes.
In turn, this feeds damagingsystems of social organization,
chavisi told me, by reinforcingthe idea that certain traits are
biologically tied to sex, aview that has historically
limited women.
Selecting for girls mightperpetuate negative views of
boys and men.
If you believe you can create adaughter with whom to have a
deep emotional bond, why eventry to cultivate that with a son
(19:50):
?
Speaker 3 (19:50):
yeah I can see where it would depend to.
If there are, like certaindiseases within your family that
are more prominent in males ormore prominent in females, you
might want to choose theopposite sex, but you're having
this genetic testing right.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
Well you should be able to.
If you have a disease like thatin your family and you do the
genetic testing that michael andI already have gone through,
you should be able to weed thatout immediately.
But then if you're withsomebody who has that same
genetic condition and you dochoose to have a kid together,
then you're going to do thetesting that I'm doing to make
(20:29):
sure that the embryos thatyou're creating don't have that
um.
And then I don't, I think I, Idon't know.
I want to say that if there areembryos that do then have those
traits, that they're not goingto implant them or they're going
to make you sign all kinds ofthings although is that
unethical then to be to becreating embryos that have these
(20:51):
terrible genetic traits andthen weed them out or implant
them anyway and like I don'tknow.
No, I don't there's a whole lotgoing on here yeah, and so this
is the point that I was tellingyou earlier.
It's not just the uk.
Virtual all, virtually all theindustrialized world, including
canada, australia and everyeuropean country besides cyprus,
banned sex selection, except inrare medical cases, which is
(21:15):
what we're probably just talkingabout.
Most nations prohibit thepractice on the grounds that it
promotes sexism and thatchildren born from it may be
harmed by gender expectations.
Oh yeah, widespread preferenceof a certain sex can also skew
the population, as in India andChina, where abortion and
infanticide of girls hasresulted in tens of millions
(21:35):
more men than women.
Amy, who's mentioned earlier inthe story, who is
Chinese-American, views her planto select for girls as a
reversal and a correction of herculture's historical preference
for sons.
In countries where infertilitycare is covered by insurance and
provided by the government, sexselection is also seen as a
frivolous waste of taxpayerfunds.
Although it's the same processas having this genetic testing
(21:59):
done, so I don't think it costsmore.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
I guess they just want to go nature's way of what
comes comes and what doesn'tcome, correct.
But if you have two embryos andone's a boy and one's a girl
and you can pick, I don't know.
There's kind of a lot of moralchoices there, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
Yeah, what if I find out the sex of both of them?
And can I have an embryo shower?
Can I have an embryo showerwhere I, where you're showered
with embryos, where, uh, we findout the why not?
(22:46):
Why not do a sex reveal of myembryos, both of them?
Yeah, I mean, if they're bothgood and I'm gonna be implanting
them.
Um, maybe we just have a whatif we have a cute little uh
brunch or something and we havea cute little like because I'm
gonna look, I'm gonna feel, Iguess the way I gotta think
(23:07):
about it is like future facingright, where it's like if we do
the implantation, it doesn'ttake, take, I am, I am going to
want to know at that point.
So why not just have a cutelittle moment for it and
celebrate as much as I can whileI can and have a mimosa while I
(23:29):
can, you know like, cause Iwon't be able to once I'm
implanted.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
I've noticed about my drinking a ton.
I really haven't been drinkingexcept for a night or two out.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
No, but I won't be implanted at that point.
Oh okay, yeah, well, still justa little bit.
Yeah, yeah, well, I've onlyever been wanting to have a
drink.
Speaker 3 (23:49):
Well, now you're making me want to find out if
baby boy embryos or baby girlembryos have a better survival
rate.
I mean, I used to hate that.
Again, we're going back 30,some odd years ago, when baby
girl embryos did have a betterchance of survival because of a
certain hormone wash.
(24:09):
That happens around the thirdmonth of pregnancy and boys have
to absorb more or whatever, andgirls survived it better.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
Okay, Nope, nope, you're wrong.
Speaker 4 (24:22):
No, according to.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
Oxford in 2015,.
The greater ratio of boys beingborn has been known since the
17th century, and since the 19thcentury scientists have known
that the mortality rate of malefetuses in the second half of
pregnancy is higher than that offemales.
They have a higher mortalityrate, it says.
(24:44):
The headline is female embryosless likely to survive at birth.
Oh no, okay, wait.
Livesciencecom says the key tothe research is this Male
embryos and fetuses are known tobe weaker.
They have to go through more indevelopment, I think okay, so
it seems like it's a.
Speaker 3 (25:04):
It's a difference of like I think all genitalia
starts out the same, and thenthere has to be this hormone
wash in order for the malegenitalia okay, okay, okay, so,
uh, uh.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
The national institute of health says more
male than female embryos developat the blastocyst stage.
Okay, so more boys then.
But then the boy embryos andfetuses, according to
Livesciencecom, are known to beweaker.
Let's look at, let's just checkthe bibliography on this
(25:41):
Interesting.
Ralph Catalano and Tim Brucknerat the University of California
, berkeley examined records ofSwedes born between 1751 and
1912 to see what conditions theycame into the world and how
long they lived.
Sweden is known for a longhistory of detailed records on
births, and the country alsoexperienced famines and severe
(26:01):
economic and social strain froma combination of harsh climate
and frequent wars prior to thepast century.
The researchers had to go thisfar back in the records to
survey a population that has,for the most part, passed on.
The results may surprise you.
Those born during bad economictimes and other periods of high
stress, male or female, actuallyhad longer lifespans,
(26:22):
suggesting the weaker among themwere removed in the fetal stage
, catalano explained, and sincemore of the males would
naturally have been weak,slamming them with the hormone
would be a biologicallybeneficial way of quickly
preparing the mother for anotherpregnancy, instead of the
possibility of wasting time on abirth that would not produce an
(26:45):
ideally healthy child.
Mother nature, so the maleembryos and fetuses are weaker,
but the ratio of boys being bornis higher.
Speaker 3 (26:59):
Look this up yourself , folks.
There's too many things.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
Yeah, female embryos less likely to survive to birth
Early embryos that arenon-viable and miscarried very
early in the pregnancy are morelikely to be male, while the
embryos that miscarry later, inthe first trimester, are more
likely to be female, for reasonsthat remain unclear as of 2015.
The study found that thechromosomal abnormalities that
would normally make the embryosnon-viable are more common in
(27:24):
males.
There's a specific link to onechromosome in particular, number
15, and some indication oflinks to chromosomes 7 and 17.
But female embryos experiencehigher mortality overall.
That suggests something otherthan chromosomal abnormalities
is at play, and whatever that ismay subtly adjust the
proportions of male and femalebabies born depending on social,
(27:47):
environmental and geographiccircumstances.
The higher female embryomortality is particularly
prevalent in this firsttrimester and levels off after
20 weeks.
So I mean we are in apolitically charged time, Nor
are we in a stressful situation.
So you know, and I'm sure that,this baby should live to be 100.
(28:11):
I'm sure that the IVF of thissalt and like the checking
testing, and stuff is.
Yeah.
Yeah, we've been doing all thistesting too, so it kind of
adjusts for the chromosomalthings and the other things.
I'm going to want to know rightaway let's just plan a.
Let's just plan a, let's justhave a brunch.
Speaker 3 (28:33):
And then an embryo bustocyst party.
Speaker 2 (28:36):
Yeah uh, should it be a a blast of shower?
Speaker 3 (28:41):
a blast of shower.
A blast thank you of aself-agenda neutral presence
yeah, I don't.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
I don't expect presence at a blastocyst stage
unless it's like a shower,massages for me and stuff like
that.
No, shower me with love.
I did a lot of fucking work toget here deserve uh massages
yeah, um, because I'm going tohumanize them regardless, and
it's funny already.
Well, you got to humanize themI've anthropomorphized them, so
(29:12):
it's chip and dale right now.
Oh, they're chicoys.
No, no, no.
I just kind of think chip anddale aren't really like.
I guess they do have some toxicmasculinity in them both but um
, no chip and dale kind ofamorphously yes
Speaker 3 (29:29):
okay, let's put it this way no matter what we get,
we sure as hell we're gonna lovethe crap out of it.
Speaker 2 (29:33):
No, I know that and I feel like I do have a certain.
I feel a certain generationalresponsibility to have a girl,
Because I am the firstborndaughter of a firstborn daughter
of a firstborn daughter as farback as I go, right.
Speaker 3 (29:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:50):
And it was funny when I was getting my massage
yesterday we went up to Glen IvyDay Spa and I was talking to
the woman and she was like theone who's giving me a massage
and I was telling her about whatI'm up to, she said oh, I'm the
youngest, I have four brothers.
And I was like, well, you'restill the firstborn daughter,
(30:11):
though, and she goes.
Speaker 3 (30:13):
I never thought about that and I was like was like,
yeah, girl, still are yeah, mymother was a firstborn daughter,
but she had an older brother,right, but then she had a bunch
of younger sisters right and sothat's why there is I, I feel a
pressure to have a firstborndaughter and that just that
(30:35):
weighs on me.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
It really does like because I you can say it doesn't
matter but, and it doesn't.
But then also I think sometimestoo that maybe that needs to
end with me.
Maybe that makes generationallines in the future like better
and stronger.
Maybe it's like like game ofthrones, where the all of us
(30:59):
first born women are good,strong women, yeah, but we're
saddled with the responsibility.
You know what I mean.
Like there's such a heavinessto it.
I think about game of thronesand there's that, uh, you know,
in game of Thrones the dragonsare like so weakened at the end
that they went from being veryhuge to like little cats and I
(31:22):
don't know.
Sometimes I think that maybethere's a generational chain
that needs to be broken for,like the lineage to be stronger,
and you're taking offense tothat, but it's not an offensive
thing.
It's like we were firstbornwomen, firstborn women,
firstborn daughters, firstborndaughters to like survive this,
(31:43):
and now it's like a phoenixrising from the ashes as like a
I don't know genderqueer littlebaby boy who's like I've
surpassed it all.
Who knows?
This is why I have the pressureto have a firstborn daughter.
Speaker 3 (32:06):
What am I saying?
You are giving me looks.
That's the look.
That's the look.
Anyway, I think, I should havea blast of shower.
Well, we do have phoebe.
Yeah, we do have.
Phoebe is a little strong,little female.
Yeah, she's going through allshe goes through.
Speaker 2 (32:29):
She's so strong um, okay, I think this answers my
question, so we'll get theanswer.
Speaker 3 (32:36):
To what the sex of both are.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
Yes, perhaps I'll have them call Christina with
that, perhaps I'll saddleChristina with that, and then
we'll have a little brunch andwe'll find out what my two
embryos are and I'm going to beattached to them regardless.
I know that You're a littleembryo.
I'm so science-based and it'slike with all the stuff about
like Alabama and embryos and youknow what people can and can't
(33:03):
do with them and like I wouldstill.
I would still donate to scienceif it doesn't end up working
out, or you know, I have anextra, I do another egg
retrieval and I have more eggsor whatever.
Um, I would still do that.
I still don't necessarily thinkof them as children yet, but I
don't not think this childrenper chance, right?
(33:26):
I was having a chat with afriend this week about I had a
real moment the other nightbefore I went to bed.
I don't know if I've moment theother night before I went to
bed.
I don't know if I've, maybeI've talked to you about this,
but losing the six eggs thatweren't mature and then losing
that fertilized egg that didn'tdevelop is a very strange kind
(33:49):
of grief and I hesitate to usethe word grief because it feels
like I haven't sat in it.
I haven't been sad about it.
I haven't cried about it.
I've cried about only havingthree.
I think Did I cry to you aboutit, yeah.
Speaker 4 (34:13):
I did.
Speaker 2 (34:15):
It's hard to keep track of tears, but I haven't
cried necessarily about the loss.
Speaker 3 (34:24):
Well, grief, I think, takes different forms at
different times.
Yeah, I mean like now, when Iwas growing up and you know,
somebody would lose, have amiscarriage, it was like, oh
well, they had a miscarriage,that was it, it was over with,
and then they got pregnant again.
But there was never like this,oh, you need to grieve about it
and it's a loss and it is.
(34:45):
But the times have just changedthat.
Yeah, even death, grief withdeath.
I've seen it change over theyears because I've come from
such a big family.
It was always a funeral.
You were always going to thetrue realm and it was just a
time for family to come together, just be together and let that
(35:06):
person go.
And you didn't say, oh, youknow, aunt Anna's really going
to be grieving now, or Uncle Joeis really going to be grieving,
it's no.
I think they took coming andgoing a lot differently than we
take coming and going now Idon't think you've ever sat with
your emotions, I mean but thatwas just.
That's where I come from.
I know it's people.
I had my father's oldest sisterlike she lost every one of her
(35:29):
brothers and sisters.
She was the oldest and I usedto think, why doesn't kathleen
like crying or anything?
And it was just, it was apassing, it was a circle of life
and babies come and old peoplego.
It would be harder like if,like my, I lost one cousin at 21
from diabetes and that was ahard, a hard loss.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
But as people got older and passed, it was just,
it was what was meant to be butthis isn't getting older and
passing, this is this neverhaving the furthest, far, far
from thing, where it's not evena whole life that's been lived.
Speaker 3 (36:07):
And, like I said, there's different kinds of grief
, and I think you saw it in ninepossibilities and then they
dwindled down to three.
So fast.
Yeah, and it was fast too,that's.
The other thing is that wasreally quick, because the next
day yeah and um, and then Ithink it was harder losing the
third um fertilized not.
(36:30):
For me wasn't harder for you tolose that one.
I think I had more faith.
Speaker 4 (36:36):
I was expecting that I was gonna survive all three?
Speaker 3 (36:39):
I was like oh, no, why.
Speaker 2 (36:42):
Yeah, I don't know that I've processed losing the
six eggs Because I worked sohard at that.
I was stabbing myself four tofive times a day and feeling the
clementines in my gut and I'mgoing to tear up about it.
I like I worked so hard to getto that point and I stayed in
(37:07):
and I relaxed and I like triednot to get too worked up because
I can't not get worked up.
It's just in my blood.
Um, it's the firstborn daughterthing.
But I worked so hard at it andwhen I I was hoping for more, I
saw like good number.
I got the numbers up at the endand I was like, yeah, I know,
see, I told you, see, I told youI get it.
(37:28):
And then, as we told it wasnine, it was like, okay, that is
a good, solid number, I feelgood about that.
And then just losing six andit's not even like like I can
see why you would be more upsetabout the fertilized egg because
it's closer to being the thingthat we want it to be.
But I those six worked reallyhard and they weren't fully
(37:56):
right and that was really justso frustrating and I wanted a
couple more of those to be onthe other side of the attrition
rate and so that was really justso frustrating and I wanted a
couple more of those to be onthe other side of the attrition
rate and so that was really hard.
And maybe I'll be more upsetabout losing the third
fertilized egg, but I'm just not.
I, and I guess too, because itwas there was so much more
success on that side of it.
Right like on the one side ofit was like well, you have nine
(38:18):
but you've lost six.
And now it's like well, youhave three but you've lost one.
So it's the, the ratio.
The ratio is different.
Um, but it's just been weirdand talking to my friend this
week about it, it was like it'snot huge but it's really not
nothing, it's really something,and and it's weird to not have
(38:39):
something tangible I don't.
I have I have the videos of thesonograms of my ovaries, but I
don't see the eggs in there Ijust see follicles, and then
those six eggs are gone and Idon have that, I can't go bury
(39:01):
them, or take them to the sea,you know.
And then that fertilized egg Ihad, you know.
I hope they did some sciencetests on it, because that's my
thing is I want to give back tothe community at large the human
experience.
I'm sure they'll have tests ofwhat they followed and that's
(39:22):
what I signed.
I signed like do science testson this place, take it to the
science fair.
Speaker 3 (39:28):
Yeah, it's like your godfather.
They went through so many timesof getting pregnant and losing,
but they miscarried, and healways said that was the worst
part was that they had nothingtangible well you kind of?
Do have something tangiblethere, but it's not yeah but he
says that they couldn't go to afuneral.
Speaker 2 (39:49):
They didn't have the fetus well, a lot of times too,
people I'm finding is I haveconversations with people who
don't understand this process.
They don't know how to react,even when it's good news.
If you go back to the lastepisode and listen to mike
receiving the news, me beinglike I have an embryo, he's like
okay, yeah, and I'm like it'sgood, I'm happy.
(40:11):
And he's like, oh, okay, and Isaid the other two ways to make
it.
He's like, oh, okay, and solike people don't understand
because this process is so weirdand foreign to so many people.
Speaker 3 (40:22):
And some people you hear oh well, they got 22 eggs
when they retreat.
Speaker 4 (40:26):
Yeah, fuck that.
Speaker 3 (40:29):
Yeah, yeah, and they're all in freezers
somewhere.
They're not even getting usedright now.
Yeah, and then other peoplelike you got four eggs.
Speaker 2 (40:39):
Yeah, yeah, there was that lady on the other side of
the curtain for me who only gotfour, and that was so, yeah,
upsetting to hear, but then shecould have fertilized all four
and all four could have becomeembryos she could be in a better
spot than me, but this is yourscience class for the day, guys
because there's so much work Istill have to do of, you know,
(41:02):
doing the implantation and then,and then waiting two weeks to
see if it works.
Well, I haven't even gottenthere Learning that they're A-OK
, then getting to theimplantation, waiting two weeks
to see if that works, and thenwaiting that first trimester to
make sure it all sticks.
Speaker 4 (41:17):
Congels.
Speaker 3 (41:20):
I guess I don't.
And then you still have sixmonths after that to worry about
itself.
Speaker 2 (41:23):
And then the birth to worry about, and then if it's
going to fall over and hit itshead or get in a car accident.
There's so many things to worryabout.
There's so many things to worryabout.
Speaker 3 (41:37):
Shall I say to you welcome to parenthood.
Oh my God.
Speaker 2 (41:48):
Don't say that to her , just wait.
I hate it.
People rubbing their noses,rubbing their parenthood in my
nose is that rubbing my nose intheir parenthood?
Those, um yeah, all of life isworrying, that's all.
Speaker 3 (41:59):
That's all we're here for.
We worry till we die.
Speaker 2 (42:04):
Then we die.
I'm not worried right now.
Speaker 3 (42:06):
Me either.
I feel good about it.
Everything's going to be great.
Speaker 2 (42:11):
And maybe we find out tomorrow, and if not, I have a
stacked week, so I'm recordingthis.
On Sunday, the 19th, it is the25th anniversary of the Phantom
Menace.
It can rent a car now and thisweek.
(42:31):
So I have this.
I'm going to an event tonight,tomorrow I'm going to coffee in
LA.
I have a stacked workday to makesure everything's taken care of
, because on Tuesday I fly toVegas Vegas and I have a
conference that I'm going to inaddition to a lovely dinner with
you.
Then we're going to see theBeatles love, then I'm going to
convince you to see a show atthe Sphere the next night, and
then I fly back into town and Ihave a premiere that I'm going
(42:57):
to with Christina.
So look forward to that onsocial media.
And before the premiere, I havethe call with my doctor to go
over all of the information,because some, somewhere in that
time between Monday and Thursday, I will find out that the
embryos are okay.
And to go back to something Isaid in the last episode or the
(43:20):
episode before, that, I have ahard time keeping up with what
I've edited and what I've postedand whatever, but I talked
about how good it was that I wasup in San Francisco for
everything because I had astacked calendar and I didn't
have time to sit around andponder and think so yeah, let's
(43:48):
call Christina and tell hershe's going to learn about my
embryos before us.
Yeah, say hello, christina.
I'm currently recording mypodcast right now and you're on
speakerphone.
Christina, I'm currentlyrecording my podcast right now
and you're on speakerphone.
Okay, that sounds fun.
I have been waffling back andforth about whether or not I
(44:13):
want to learn about the sex ofmy embryos, and what I've
decided is that I want you tolearn about the sex of my
embryos, and then I want to havea blast of shower.
Shut up, do you like that?
I?
Speaker 4 (44:26):
do.
Okay, all right, so let's talklocation.
No, like, how do we do this?
Where do oh we?
Oh, you know, he said go,that'd be really super cute.
We can go to the KookaburraLounge, oh, perhaps it's cute.
And then, oh, and it has likegreens and pinks.
(44:49):
So that way it kind of goes inthe things which I mean,
obviously not necessarily sayingthat we have to ascribe to any
type of change or stereotype sothat any of those things matter.
In the long run, your childwill or will not be a flash
choice that we get to make.
They decided they are forthemselves.
However, it will be really funand very cute.
Speaker 2 (45:06):
We're just going to find out, we're just going to
celebrate the kind of genitaliathey're likely to have, and now
my cuckoo clock's going off.
So, all right, stay tuned,folks.
Speaker 1 (45:22):
I think we're going to have a blast of shower
episode coming at you.
It's going to be a blast.
The Backup Plan is created,produced and hosted by me,
meredith Kate.
Julian Hagans is my co-producer.
You can find us on social mediaat Backup Plan Pod.
The best place to get updatesis to sign up for our newsletter
at BackupPlanPodcom, where wealso post all episodes, show
(45:42):
notes and transcripts.
Thank you for listening.
In college, my gay best friend and I joked that if
we hadn't found love by 40, we'dhave a baby with each other 20
years later.
I'm pulling the ripcord.
I'm deciding on solo motherhood, to choosing IVF.
I'm Meredith and this is theBackup Plan.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
So so You're here now .
Speaker 3 (00:19):
I'm here now.
I'm sitting in your new sofafor the first time.
What do you think?
Speaker 2 (00:23):
It's nice and cushy you like it yeah, do you like?
It.
Kitty likes it, kitty likes it.
Okay, so how do you feel, sincethe last time you were here,
like there was a lot that youdidn't get to be here for?
Speaker 3 (00:39):
I know I missed that.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Sorry, that's okay.
I called you one night andreally was like upset that you
weren't going to be here for theegg retrieval and I was like I
really want you here, because myunderstanding was that that was
a tough thing to go through,which it ended up not being.
But I feel like I had troublecommunicating to you that I
(01:01):
really wanted you out here and Ikind of had to get firm about
it, like, do you recall thatconversation?
Speaker 3 (01:07):
I remember telling you, if you need me here, I will
drop everything and get on aplane and come out.
Yeah, but then you decided thatyou had somebody to help you
through it.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
It ended up working out okay and it's fine.
It just wasn't as like pain andlabor intensive as I thought it
was going to be.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
And I'm good.
I'm grateful for that, yeah,yeah, because I would have felt
awful if you called and told mehow much pain you were in.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
I was just gassy, so I just had the ability to fart
freely and not really worryabout it, with confidence.
I farted freely and withconfidence and ended up being
okay.
But what, how, how have youfelt in the past couple of weeks
Like watching it from afar.
I called you every night for Iwatched every.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
I missed one shot because you had to do it in the
morning, yes, before anappointment.
Yes, that's the only shot Imissed, so I did get to go
through all the shots.
Yeah, um, it was a difficulttime for what I was doing and
just trying to get that done andknowing what you were going
through.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
It was wasn't easy, but we did it yeah, it sucks
because I wanted to be there tohelp you move.
Um, for context, my mom has ahouse a small house in the town
that I went to college and aseparate house in Orlando, and
the house in St Augustine soldand she had to move a whole
(02:31):
bunch of stuff, but that househad a whole treasure trove of
artifacts from our history, 51years of marriage and 39 years
of children, yeah, and so therewas a lot in the garage that she
ended up going through alonewhich, if I was there, I would
have just like chucked it,chugga, chugga, choo, chooed my
way through everything.
(02:51):
Yeah and uh, it sucked to notbe there as physical strength,
as emotional strength, and totell you when to take a break,
because you don't have anybodythere, and you wouldn't listen
to me when I told you.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
I want to take a break, because you don't have
anybody there and you wouldn'tlisten to me when I told you so
I just I just wanted to get itdone.
You know, there was so muchthat had to be done and I wanted
to get out here.
So it was just do it and getout here as fast as I could.
Yeah, and it worked.
I sold the house settlement onthe 24th, okay, and um, now I'm
here and we can get on with babymaking.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Well, you don't have to get on with it, that's
nothing you have to do.
I have to go through theemotional trauma of being a new
nana, yeah, yeah.
And so the place that I'm atright now in time is that we're
still waiting on the genetictest results, which is
frustrating because I'm likewhen is it going to happen?
Speaker 3 (03:42):
You just always want to be one step ahead in schedule
.
That's okay, I do too.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
I just have it planned and I know what the next
step is and I just want to getto it, but I still feel good
about it.
I feel nervous about feelinggood about it, but it is what it
is, and part of the reason Iwanted to record with you today
is because I am trying to decidewhat I'm going to do with the
(04:12):
answers of this test, and one ofthe things that I can know, and
they are testing for right now,is sex, and I can know the sex
of the baby and can basicallychoose.
Now there are two embryos.
So one is a 4BB five-dayblastocyst and the other is a
(04:35):
4BA seven-day blastocyst.
The 4BA is a better grade butbecause it's a seven day
blastocyst, it's not the choiceone.
So the choice one is the fiveday, because it's more important
that it's a five day blastocystthan it is that it has the
better grade.
So the 4BB is the one that ismost likely the transfer baby at
(05:01):
this moment.
Now, yeah, I, because I have twoembryos, I can, I can know what
the sex of them are and I don'tknow if I want to know.
I've joked with michael thateven if I had one, that wasn't
as good, which is as good, uh,which is the seven day embryo.
(05:24):
I joked with him that, yeah,but if it's not as good and it's
a girl, it's still, but it'sprobably still better, uh, but
uh, I don't know, I don't knowwhere I'm at, whether or not I
want to find out, because it'sjust two embryos and one is
definitely better than the other.
So it's not like genderselection at this point, it's,
(05:48):
it's their gender made already.
Speaker 3 (05:50):
Yeah, so I don't know , I want to say make me a girl
or make me a boy, yeah, it'salready made.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
I want to know what your choices were in terms of
finding out sex along the way,and I just like give me the
history.
Well, we didn't have definitivesex identification Right.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
I mean some doctors would say, oh, the heart beats
faster, so it's, it's a girl,heart beats slower.
I kept telling my doctor Idon't want to.
He always there were fourdoctors in the practice and one
was really good at picking and Ikept telling all of them I
don't want to know.
And the day I had my visit withhim he went oh, he is doing
great, what about all?
(06:32):
And I went what?
And he goes slow heartbeat.
You're going to have a boy.
And he was like 99% right and Ijust turned to him and said
maybe it's a calm girl.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
And that was the first time I didn't let a man
stand in my way I might have hada penis and I just shriveled it
back up and said, fuck that.
Speaker 3 (06:57):
And I just said I'm not listening to him because I
said I didn't want to know andmaybe he's wrong, so I didn't
believe him.
Here I am and I mean I don'tknow if there was, I could have
had amniocentesis.
I guess they can tell youthrough that, but I chose not to
have that either.
Why I first of all worriedabout I guess it was something
(07:17):
new and I didn't want to run therisk of having a problem
because I had it.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
Do you know if amniocentesis has changed from
when you were pregnant with meto now?
I mean it's been 40 years.
Speaker 3 (07:31):
I assume it's changed .
No, I haven't kept up withamniocentesis procedures.
Okay so, and I at that point Ifelt, no matter what, I'm going
to keep this baby anyway.
So why bother?
Why find out that you're goingto have a baby that has problems
and then worry about it for thenext nine months, next seven
months?
Well, I guess they do it a fourmonth, so it'd be five months
(07:52):
of worrying.
Yeah, where I can just plan onhaving a healthy baby and if
anything goes wrong I'll dealwith it.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Yeah, I don't recall if we had this conversation on
the last podcast, but I've hadso many conversations with you
about this whole journey andwe've talked a lot, a lot, a lot
about it, and I know I've askedyou this.
If you had the chance to findout now, would you?
Speaker 3 (08:14):
I've thought about that and at first I went, no, no
, no, I want to be surprised.
I want to hear them say on thedelivery table it's a girl or
it's a boy.
But now that I think about it,and especially since we've had
two babies, and one of each kind, in our family, it's like, well
, maybe it's a good idea, why?
Well, it gives you a chance toplan quote, plan the nursery or
(08:39):
buy the layette and just getready, I think.
I also think that maybe youfind out you're having the sex
of a baby that you didn't wantthe sex of.
It gives you a chance to bondwith that baby and say, oh yeah,
so it's a boy, it's cool, it'sgreat.
So when a baby comes out, youknow it's going to be a little
(08:59):
boy or a little girl and you'regoing to be.
Hey, I'm ready for this, right.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
Now with the babies in our family my niece and
nephew we knew it was towardsthe end of the pregnancy that we
found out about, um, the heartdefects that Mars had.
But we found we knew earlierabout Phoebe's complications,
right, and so I know something.
I recall having a conversationwith you where you told me that
(09:24):
you were really like she becamemore real, knowing it was a girl
and it was Phoebe.
I mean, it kind of went backand forth on names a little bit,
right, yeah, but that you had.
It was like there's the littlegirl that we have to.
Speaker 3 (09:43):
Yeah, we got to get prepared for this.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
Well, just that you're pulling for her, and that
was better for you to know thatit was a little girl that you
were pulling for.
Not that it would matter if itwas a boy, but just that like
it's just a preparation.
Speaker 3 (09:59):
It makes that baby realize real you were always
Harvey.
Why I used to call you Harvey?
Because I watched a movie fromthe 1930s with Jimmy Stewart and
he had some mental issues andhe always saw a giant white
rabbit named Harvey and I lovedthat movie and I love bunny
(10:21):
rabbits.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
So you became Harvey.
Did you feel like I was makingyou mentally unstable?
Speaker 3 (10:27):
no, okay, I was, I was checking, very stable, just
like now, um, and yeah, so it,just it also.
It was something unseen andunknown to anybody else.
Only jimmy stewart could see,harvey, only I could feel you
and and what did you call Dylan,my brother?
He was at the beginning.
(10:48):
It was all Harvey number two ishere, but then he never.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
I never really called him Harvey all the time.
Right, because you called himsomething else.
Speaker 3 (11:02):
The Predator.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
Oh well, he used to push on my stomach so hard with
his foot it looked it was goingto pop out.
Yeah well wait.
Was it predator or alien?
Speaker 3 (11:10):
probably alien, alien .
I was gonna say I don'tremember the predator, but yeah,
we had watched the movie alienwhile I was pregnant.
Yeah, it was like look at thatfoot.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
So if you were in my place you would find out as soon
as possible, or like, cause it,cause here's.
Here's.
My thought process is if theyboth test a okay, I know I'm
going with a five day firstShould I find out immediately,
(11:39):
as soon as I can, when they theycall and they say both embryos
are great, which they're gonnado, power positive thinking, um,
should I find out at thatmoment or should I wait until,
like, the first scan where theycan see?
That's kind of what I'm goingback and forth on now or do I
(12:01):
wait until the very, very end?
Speaker 3 (12:03):
yeah and I don't know , because so I would imagine you
want to know immediately.
Knowing you, yeah, but so thenI'm, part of me is like I think
they should send me a textmessage and we should have a
lovely dinner out and I couldhave some wine, so I could cry a
lot and then I could tell you,okay, just Just you and me.
Yeah, at dinner, yeah, okay,and then we could have a party
(12:27):
for people.
Oh, the cat just bit me.
Say that.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
Stop it, the cat's playing with your toes.
Speaker 3 (12:34):
Behave, stop playing with my feet.
And then we'd have a party andwe could bake the cake.
And if it was pink or blue, I'mof three different minds about
this.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
Like I do want to know as soon as possible.
I like gut instinct is to knowas soon as possible.
Like, tell me, I want to knowit all.
I like information.
Let me put it on a spreadsheet,you know, but I'm trying to.
I'm like is that am Iinformation?
Let me put it on a spreadsheet,you know, but I'm trying to I'm
(13:09):
like is that, am I nottraditional enough?
And now am I like my worst enemyhere?
Would it be better if I didn'tknow at all?
Is that more special?
Should I like hold myself backfrom myself and like just enjoy
the process as it comes?
(13:30):
That's kind of my thought there, and that that because so much
of this is so planned out allthe way that there is some kind
of like beauty in not knowingthat because everything else has
been super planned out.
Okay, thought number one, onethat's number one.
(13:50):
Uh, well, you could do like waitmidway through thought number
two is to wait until you do getthe scans done and then do some
sort of a do a sex reveal,because it's not a gender reveal
, it's a sex reveal and which,like I have gotten mad about
(14:10):
those in the past kind ofirrationally, probably, because
it just feels so like tied tonotions of gender.
But it's not, it doesn't haveto be that, it can just be a
cute, it's a boy or it's a girl.
Like you can't deny the biologythere of like what's happening
Right, and in most cases thebiology says it's one way or the
other way.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
Yeah, it could go crazy, or it could just be.
It could be tasteful.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
I could do it tastefully.
It doesn't have to be likebaseball and trucks or ballet
and unicorns, like it can justbe a it's this or it's a that.
So that's option number two,and option number three is to
just know immediately.
But I think my fear is that ifI know I have two girls or two
(14:55):
boys or a boy and a girl, that Ireally I'm going to humanize it
too much and if it doesn't workout, can it be like really
upset.
But then the other part of methinks if something doesn't
happen, you're going to want togo back and find out if it was a
girl or a boy and still likeI'm going to be upset regardless
if things don't work.
Speaker 3 (15:14):
I'm also curious to which kind of babies have a
better chance of making itthrough development.
I always heard that if babieswere born premature, that white
baby girls were the highestsurvival rate.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
But is that because they're white baby girls and
there is a bias?
Speaker 3 (15:35):
This was just a general study, right, but who is
giving the?
Speaker 2 (15:39):
care.
There is a deep-seated thingthat people will help the white
baby girl and care less aboutthe black baby boy.
Speaker 3 (15:48):
Let's look into is there a better chance of a boy
surviving a girl or a girl outsurviving a boy?
Speaker 2 (15:55):
So I'm actually going to bring up this point is a
really good time to bring upthis study that I found that I
sent to you.
So I have Apple News and this ison Slate and it's a story
called the parents who wantdaughters and daughters.
Only sex selection with IVF isbanned in much of the world not
in the US, and this is by EmmyNeatfield.
(16:16):
It's really interesting to talkabout and something I didn't
know is that sex selection Ijust thought it was part of the
process, that it was just youfind out and you can choose.
Oh, if I have two or three goodeggs and one is a baby boy and
the other two baby girls and Iwant a baby boy, and I can
choose that it's not in the restof the world, like I was so
(16:40):
surprised when I sent thisarticle to you that the only two
places this is allowed is hereand in cyprus.
Really, the rest of the worldit is illegal, like denmark and
sweden, correct?
Wow, it's considered unethical,which then when you start
thinking about it's like oh,yeah, it is because it's almost
like an opposite of the um onechild policy that china had and
(17:04):
people wanted boys there was alot of infanticide and illegal
abortions and stuff.
When they found out that theywere having girls and one of the
women in this article, uh,she's chinese and she felt like
it was, uh, like a big old, fuckyou to china.
Like I want a girl and nowthat's what'm going to have.
It's also some people that workin tech who are like they want
(17:28):
to engineer things, their wholefamily, and so they're doing IVF
and they're using a surrogateso that they can travel the
world and do whatever they wantto do and then have exactly the
baby and the family that they'replanning on having and then
also expecting those children toreally adhere to the gender
stereotypes of this is what boysare like.
(17:49):
This is what girls are like.
We don't want toxic boys, wewant well behaved, obedient
girls, which then, of course,feeds into the thing of like
women are obedient women.
Listen, women behave which isvery like trad wife bullshit
right about us do they?
Speaker 3 (18:02):
well, there used to be a thing I mean before you had
all this scientific assistancein choosing your gender where
you know, oh, if you have sexthis time of the of your
ovulation, you have a betterchance of having a boy.
Or if you eat a lot of acidfood right before you get
inseminated, it'll be a girl.
There used to be those kind ofways of chick picking and
(18:25):
choosing.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
Sure, but did you just say chick picking?
No, but true, is that whatwe're calling it now?
Speaker 4 (18:33):
Chick picking.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
Chick picking, chip picking yeah, there's a lot of
stuff.
To many, the prospect ofraising a girl just feels as if
it'll be easier.
She's far less to commit a massshooting or idolize Andrew Tate
.
She's also, points out, mayuriless likely to be diagnosed with
autism.
Although a man striving to makeas much money as possible might
feel capitalist and gross, awoman who does the same is a
(18:57):
girl boss, a beloved trope amongmillennials, which I don't
think.
That's true, but whatever.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
Some people's point of view is that who knows what
20 years from now will bring ofso?
Speaker 2 (19:08):
Yeah.
Still, the very act of sexselection is sexist, argues
Arian Chavisi, a professor ofphilosophy at Brighton and
Sussex Medical School in the UK,where elective sex selection is
illegal.
You can't actually foresee yourchild's gender, let alone how
they will choose to express itor the qualities they will
possess as a human being.
So sex selection requiresmaking a decision based on
(19:28):
stereotypes.
In turn, this feeds damagingsystems of social organization,
chavisi told me, by reinforcingthe idea that certain traits are
biologically tied to sex, aview that has historically
limited women.
Selecting for girls mightperpetuate negative views of
boys and men.
If you believe you can create adaughter with whom to have a
deep emotional bond, why eventry to cultivate that with a son
(19:50):
?
Speaker 3 (19:50):
yeah I can see where it would depend to.
If there are, like certaindiseases within your family that
are more prominent in males ormore prominent in females, you
might want to choose theopposite sex, but you're having
this genetic testing right.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
Well you should be able to.
If you have a disease like thatin your family and you do the
genetic testing that michael andI already have gone through,
you should be able to weed thatout immediately.
But then if you're withsomebody who has that same
genetic condition and you dochoose to have a kid together,
then you're going to do thetesting that I'm doing to make
(20:29):
sure that the embryos thatyou're creating don't have that
um.
And then I don't, I think I, Idon't know.
I want to say that if there areembryos that do then have those
traits, that they're not goingto implant them or they're going
to make you sign all kinds ofthings although is that
unethical then to be to becreating embryos that have these
(20:51):
terrible genetic traits andthen weed them out or implant
them anyway and like I don'tknow.
No, I don't there's a whole lotgoing on here yeah, and so this
is the point that I was tellingyou earlier.
It's not just the uk.
Virtual all, virtually all theindustrialized world, including
canada, australia and everyeuropean country besides cyprus,
banned sex selection, except inrare medical cases, which is
(21:15):
what we're probably just talkingabout.
Most nations prohibit thepractice on the grounds that it
promotes sexism and thatchildren born from it may be
harmed by gender expectations.
Oh yeah, widespread preferenceof a certain sex can also skew
the population, as in India andChina, where abortion and
infanticide of girls hasresulted in tens of millions
(21:35):
more men than women.
Amy, who's mentioned earlier inthe story, who is
Chinese-American, views her planto select for girls as a
reversal and a correction of herculture's historical preference
for sons.
In countries where infertilitycare is covered by insurance and
provided by the government, sexselection is also seen as a
frivolous waste of taxpayerfunds.
Although it's the same processas having this genetic testing
(21:59):
done, so I don't think it costsmore.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
I guess they just want to go nature's way of what
comes comes and what doesn'tcome, correct.
But if you have two embryos andone's a boy and one's a girl
and you can pick, I don't know.
There's kind of a lot of moralchoices there, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
Yeah, what if I find out the sex of both of them?
And can I have an embryo shower?
Can I have an embryo showerwhere I, where you're showered
with embryos, where, uh, we findout the why not?
(22:46):
Why not do a sex reveal of myembryos, both of them?
Yeah, I mean, if they're bothgood and I'm gonna be implanting
them.
Um, maybe we just have a whatif we have a cute little uh
brunch or something and we havea cute little like because I'm
gonna look, I'm gonna feel, Iguess the way I gotta think
(23:07):
about it is like future facingright, where it's like if we do
the implantation, it doesn'ttake, take, I am, I am going to
want to know at that point.
So why not just have a cutelittle moment for it and
celebrate as much as I can whileI can and have a mimosa while I
(23:29):
can, you know like, cause Iwon't be able to once I'm
implanted.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
I've noticed about my drinking a ton.
I really haven't been drinkingexcept for a night or two out.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
No, but I won't be implanted at that point.
Oh okay, yeah, well, still justa little bit.
Yeah, yeah, well, I've onlyever been wanting to have a
drink.
Speaker 3 (23:49):
Well, now you're making me want to find out if
baby boy embryos or baby girlembryos have a better survival
rate.
I mean, I used to hate that.
Again, we're going back 30,some odd years ago, when baby
girl embryos did have a betterchance of survival because of a
certain hormone wash.
(24:09):
That happens around the thirdmonth of pregnancy and boys have
to absorb more or whatever, andgirls survived it better.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
Okay, Nope, nope, you're wrong.
Speaker 4 (24:22):
No, according to.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
Oxford in 2015,.
The greater ratio of boys beingborn has been known since the
17th century, and since the 19thcentury scientists have known
that the mortality rate of malefetuses in the second half of
pregnancy is higher than that offemales.
They have a higher mortalityrate, it says.
(24:44):
The headline is female embryosless likely to survive at birth.
Oh no, okay, wait.
Livesciencecom says the key tothe research is this Male
embryos and fetuses are known tobe weaker.
They have to go through more indevelopment, I think okay, so
it seems like it's a.
Speaker 3 (25:04):
It's a difference of like I think all genitalia
starts out the same, and thenthere has to be this hormone
wash in order for the malegenitalia okay, okay, okay, so,
uh, uh.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
The national institute of health says more
male than female embryos developat the blastocyst stage.
Okay, so more boys then.
But then the boy embryos andfetuses, according to
Livesciencecom, are known to beweaker.
Let's look at, let's just checkthe bibliography on this
(25:41):
Interesting.
Ralph Catalano and Tim Brucknerat the University of California
, berkeley examined records ofSwedes born between 1751 and
1912 to see what conditions theycame into the world and how
long they lived.
Sweden is known for a longhistory of detailed records on
births, and the country alsoexperienced famines and severe
(26:01):
economic and social strain froma combination of harsh climate
and frequent wars prior to thepast century.
The researchers had to go thisfar back in the records to
survey a population that has,for the most part, passed on.
The results may surprise you.
Those born during bad economictimes and other periods of high
stress, male or female, actuallyhad longer lifespans,
(26:22):
suggesting the weaker among themwere removed in the fetal stage
, catalano explained, and sincemore of the males would
naturally have been weak,slamming them with the hormone
would be a biologicallybeneficial way of quickly
preparing the mother for anotherpregnancy, instead of the
possibility of wasting time on abirth that would not produce an
(26:45):
ideally healthy child.
Mother nature, so the maleembryos and fetuses are weaker,
but the ratio of boys being bornis higher.
Speaker 3 (26:59):
Look this up yourself , folks.
There's too many things.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
Yeah, female embryos less likely to survive to birth
Early embryos that arenon-viable and miscarried very
early in the pregnancy are morelikely to be male, while the
embryos that miscarry later, inthe first trimester, are more
likely to be female, for reasonsthat remain unclear as of 2015.
The study found that thechromosomal abnormalities that
would normally make the embryosnon-viable are more common in
(27:24):
males.
There's a specific link to onechromosome in particular, number
15, and some indication oflinks to chromosomes 7 and 17.
But female embryos experiencehigher mortality overall.
That suggests something otherthan chromosomal abnormalities
is at play, and whatever that ismay subtly adjust the
proportions of male and femalebabies born depending on social,
(27:47):
environmental and geographiccircumstances.
The higher female embryomortality is particularly
prevalent in this firsttrimester and levels off after
20 weeks.
So I mean we are in apolitically charged time, Nor
are we in a stressful situation.
So you know, and I'm sure that,this baby should live to be 100.
(28:11):
I'm sure that the IVF of thissalt and like the checking
testing, and stuff is.
Yeah.
Yeah, we've been doing all thistesting too, so it kind of
adjusts for the chromosomalthings and the other things.
I'm going to want to know rightaway let's just plan a.
Let's just plan a, let's justhave a brunch.
Speaker 3 (28:33):
And then an embryo bustocyst party.
Speaker 2 (28:36):
Yeah uh, should it be a a blast of shower?
Speaker 3 (28:41):
a blast of shower.
A blast thank you of aself-agenda neutral presence
yeah, I don't.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
I don't expect presence at a blastocyst stage
unless it's like a shower,massages for me and stuff like
that.
No, shower me with love.
I did a lot of fucking work toget here deserve uh massages
yeah, um, because I'm going tohumanize them regardless, and
it's funny already.
Well, you got to humanize themI've anthropomorphized them, so
(29:12):
it's chip and dale right now.
Oh, they're chicoys.
No, no, no.
I just kind of think chip anddale aren't really like.
I guess they do have some toxicmasculinity in them both but um
, no chip and dale kind ofamorphously yes
Speaker 3 (29:29):
okay, let's put it this way no matter what we get,
we sure as hell we're gonna lovethe crap out of it.
Speaker 2 (29:33):
No, I know that and I feel like I do have a certain.
I feel a certain generationalresponsibility to have a girl,
Because I am the firstborndaughter of a firstborn daughter
of a firstborn daughter as farback as I go, right.
Speaker 3 (29:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:50):
And it was funny when I was getting my massage
yesterday we went up to Glen IvyDay Spa and I was talking to
the woman and she was like theone who's giving me a massage
and I was telling her about whatI'm up to, she said oh, I'm the
youngest, I have four brothers.
And I was like, well, you'restill the firstborn daughter,
(30:11):
though, and she goes.
Speaker 3 (30:13):
I never thought about that and I was like was like,
yeah, girl, still are yeah, mymother was a firstborn daughter,
but she had an older brother,right, but then she had a bunch
of younger sisters right and sothat's why there is I, I feel a
pressure to have a firstborndaughter and that just that
(30:35):
weighs on me.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
It really does like because I you can say it doesn't
matter but, and it doesn't.
But then also I think sometimestoo that maybe that needs to
end with me.
Maybe that makes generationallines in the future like better
and stronger.
Maybe it's like like game ofthrones, where the all of us
(30:59):
first born women are good,strong women, yeah, but we're
saddled with the responsibility.
You know what I mean.
Like there's such a heavinessto it.
I think about game of thronesand there's that, uh, you know,
in game of Thrones the dragonsare like so weakened at the end
that they went from being veryhuge to like little cats and I
(31:22):
don't know.
Sometimes I think that maybethere's a generational chain
that needs to be broken for,like the lineage to be stronger,
and you're taking offense tothat, but it's not an offensive
thing.
It's like we were firstbornwomen, firstborn women,
firstborn daughters, firstborndaughters to like survive this,
(31:43):
and now it's like a phoenixrising from the ashes as like a
I don't know genderqueer littlebaby boy who's like I've
surpassed it all.
Who knows?
This is why I have the pressureto have a firstborn daughter.
Speaker 3 (32:06):
What am I saying?
You are giving me looks.
That's the look.
That's the look.
Anyway, I think, I should havea blast of shower.
Well, we do have phoebe.
Yeah, we do have.
Phoebe is a little strong,little female.
Yeah, she's going through allshe goes through.
Speaker 2 (32:29):
She's so strong um, okay, I think this answers my
question, so we'll get theanswer.
Speaker 3 (32:36):
To what the sex of both are.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
Yes, perhaps I'll have them call Christina with
that, perhaps I'll saddleChristina with that, and then
we'll have a little brunch andwe'll find out what my two
embryos are and I'm going to beattached to them regardless.
I know that You're a littleembryo.
I'm so science-based and it'slike with all the stuff about
like Alabama and embryos and youknow what people can and can't
(33:03):
do with them and like I wouldstill.
I would still donate to scienceif it doesn't end up working
out, or you know, I have anextra, I do another egg
retrieval and I have more eggsor whatever.
Um, I would still do that.
I still don't necessarily thinkof them as children yet, but I
don't not think this childrenper chance, right?
(33:26):
I was having a chat with afriend this week about I had a
real moment the other nightbefore I went to bed.
I don't know if I've moment theother night before I went to
bed.
I don't know if I've, maybeI've talked to you about this,
but losing the six eggs thatweren't mature and then losing
that fertilized egg that didn'tdevelop is a very strange kind
(33:49):
of grief and I hesitate to usethe word grief because it feels
like I haven't sat in it.
I haven't been sad about it.
I haven't cried about it.
I've cried about only havingthree.
I think Did I cry to you aboutit, yeah.
Speaker 4 (34:13):
I did.
Speaker 2 (34:15):
It's hard to keep track of tears, but I haven't
cried necessarily about the loss.
Speaker 3 (34:24):
Well, grief, I think, takes different forms at
different times.
Yeah, I mean like now, when Iwas growing up and you know,
somebody would lose, have amiscarriage, it was like, oh
well, they had a miscarriage,that was it, it was over with,
and then they got pregnant again.
But there was never like this,oh, you need to grieve about it
and it's a loss and it is.
(34:45):
But the times have just changedthat.
Yeah, even death, grief withdeath.
I've seen it change over theyears because I've come from
such a big family.
It was always a funeral.
You were always going to thetrue realm and it was just a
time for family to come together, just be together and let that
(35:06):
person go.
And you didn't say, oh, youknow, aunt Anna's really going
to be grieving now, or Uncle Joeis really going to be grieving,
it's no.
I think they took coming andgoing a lot differently than we
take coming and going now Idon't think you've ever sat with
your emotions, I mean but thatwas just.
That's where I come from.
I know it's people.
I had my father's oldest sisterlike she lost every one of her
(35:29):
brothers and sisters.
She was the oldest and I usedto think, why doesn't kathleen
like crying or anything?
And it was just, it was apassing, it was a circle of life
and babies come and old peoplego.
It would be harder like if,like my, I lost one cousin at 21
from diabetes and that was ahard, a hard loss.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
But as people got older and passed, it was just,
it was what was meant to be butthis isn't getting older and
passing, this is this neverhaving the furthest, far, far
from thing, where it's not evena whole life that's been lived.
Speaker 3 (36:07):
And, like I said, there's different kinds of grief
, and I think you saw it in ninepossibilities and then they
dwindled down to three.
So fast.
Yeah, and it was fast too,that's.
The other thing is that wasreally quick, because the next
day yeah and um, and then Ithink it was harder losing the
third um fertilized not.
(36:30):
For me wasn't harder for you tolose that one.
I think I had more faith.
Speaker 4 (36:36):
I was expecting that I was gonna survive all three?
Speaker 3 (36:39):
I was like oh, no, why.
Speaker 2 (36:42):
Yeah, I don't know that I've processed losing the
six eggs Because I worked sohard at that.
I was stabbing myself four tofive times a day and feeling the
clementines in my gut and I'mgoing to tear up about it.
I like I worked so hard to getto that point and I stayed in
(37:07):
and I relaxed and I like triednot to get too worked up because
I can't not get worked up.
It's just in my blood.
Um, it's the firstborn daughterthing.
But I worked so hard at it andwhen I I was hoping for more, I
saw like good number.
I got the numbers up at the endand I was like, yeah, I know,
see, I told you, see, I told youI get it.
(37:28):
And then, as we told it wasnine, it was like, okay, that is
a good, solid number, I feelgood about that.
And then just losing six andit's not even like like I can
see why you would be more upsetabout the fertilized egg because
it's closer to being the thingthat we want it to be.
But I those six worked reallyhard and they weren't fully
(37:56):
right and that was really justso frustrating and I wanted a
couple more of those to be onthe other side of the attrition
rate and so that was really justso frustrating and I wanted a
couple more of those to be onthe other side of the attrition
rate and so that was really hard.
And maybe I'll be more upsetabout losing the third
fertilized egg, but I'm just not.
I, and I guess too, because itwas there was so much more
success on that side of it.
Right like on the one side ofit was like well, you have nine
(38:18):
but you've lost six.
And now it's like well, youhave three but you've lost one.
So it's the, the ratio.
The ratio is different.
Um, but it's just been weirdand talking to my friend this
week about it, it was like it'snot huge but it's really not
nothing, it's really something,and and it's weird to not have
(38:39):
something tangible I don't.
I have I have the videos of thesonograms of my ovaries, but I
don't see the eggs in there Ijust see follicles, and then
those six eggs are gone and Idon have that, I can't go bury
(39:01):
them, or take them to the sea,you know.
And then that fertilized egg Ihad, you know.
I hope they did some sciencetests on it, because that's my
thing is I want to give back tothe community at large the human
experience.
I'm sure they'll have tests ofwhat they followed and that's
(39:22):
what I signed.
I signed like do science testson this place, take it to the
science fair.
Speaker 3 (39:28):
Yeah, it's like your godfather.
They went through so many timesof getting pregnant and losing,
but they miscarried, and healways said that was the worst
part was that they had nothingtangible well you kind of?
Do have something tangiblethere, but it's not yeah but he
says that they couldn't go to afuneral.
Speaker 2 (39:49):
They didn't have the fetus well, a lot of times too,
people I'm finding is I haveconversations with people who
don't understand this process.
They don't know how to react,even when it's good news.
If you go back to the lastepisode and listen to mike
receiving the news, me beinglike I have an embryo, he's like
okay, yeah, and I'm like it'sgood, I'm happy.
(40:11):
And he's like, oh, okay, and Isaid the other two ways to make
it.
He's like, oh, okay, and solike people don't understand
because this process is so weirdand foreign to so many people.
Speaker 3 (40:22):
And some people you hear oh well, they got 22 eggs
when they retreat.
Speaker 4 (40:26):
Yeah, fuck that.
Speaker 3 (40:29):
Yeah, yeah, and they're all in freezers
somewhere.
They're not even getting usedright now.
Yeah, and then other peoplelike you got four eggs.
Speaker 2 (40:39):
Yeah, yeah, there was that lady on the other side of
the curtain for me who only gotfour, and that was so, yeah,
upsetting to hear, but then shecould have fertilized all four
and all four could have becomeembryos she could be in a better
spot than me, but this is yourscience class for the day, guys
because there's so much work Istill have to do of, you know,
(41:02):
doing the implantation and then,and then waiting two weeks to
see if it works.
Well, I haven't even gottenthere Learning that they're A-OK
, then getting to theimplantation, waiting two weeks
to see if that works, and thenwaiting that first trimester to
make sure it all sticks.
Speaker 4 (41:17):
Congels.
Speaker 3 (41:20):
I guess I don't.
And then you still have sixmonths after that to worry about
itself.
Speaker 2 (41:23):
And then the birth to worry about, and then if it's
going to fall over and hit itshead or get in a car accident.
There's so many things to worryabout.
There's so many things to worryabout.
Speaker 3 (41:37):
Shall I say to you welcome to parenthood.
Oh my God.
Speaker 2 (41:48):
Don't say that to her , just wait.
I hate it.
People rubbing their noses,rubbing their parenthood in my
nose is that rubbing my nose intheir parenthood?
Those, um yeah, all of life isworrying, that's all.
Speaker 3 (41:59):
That's all we're here for.
We worry till we die.
Speaker 2 (42:04):
Then we die.
I'm not worried right now.
Speaker 3 (42:06):
Me either.
I feel good about it.
Everything's going to be great.
Speaker 2 (42:11):
And maybe we find out tomorrow, and if not, I have a
stacked week, so I'm recordingthis.
On Sunday, the 19th, it is the25th anniversary of the Phantom
Menace.
It can rent a car now and thisweek.
(42:31):
So I have this.
I'm going to an event tonight,tomorrow I'm going to coffee in
LA.
I have a stacked workday to makesure everything's taken care of
, because on Tuesday I fly toVegas Vegas and I have a
conference that I'm going to inaddition to a lovely dinner with
you.
Then we're going to see theBeatles love, then I'm going to
convince you to see a show atthe Sphere the next night, and
then I fly back into town and Ihave a premiere that I'm going
(42:57):
to with Christina.
So look forward to that onsocial media.
And before the premiere, I havethe call with my doctor to go
over all of the information,because some, somewhere in that
time between Monday and Thursday, I will find out that the
embryos are okay.
And to go back to something Isaid in the last episode or the
(43:20):
episode before, that, I have ahard time keeping up with what
I've edited and what I've postedand whatever, but I talked
about how good it was that I wasup in San Francisco for
everything because I had astacked calendar and I didn't
have time to sit around andponder and think so yeah, let's
(43:48):
call Christina and tell hershe's going to learn about my
embryos before us.
Yeah, say hello, christina.
I'm currently recording mypodcast right now and you're on
speakerphone.
Christina, I'm currentlyrecording my podcast right now
and you're on speakerphone.
Okay, that sounds fun.
I have been waffling back andforth about whether or not I
(44:13):
want to learn about the sex ofmy embryos, and what I've
decided is that I want you tolearn about the sex of my
embryos, and then I want to havea blast of shower.
Shut up, do you like that?
I?
Speaker 4 (44:26):
do.
Okay, all right, so let's talklocation.
No, like, how do we do this?
Where do oh we?
Oh, you know, he said go,that'd be really super cute.
We can go to the KookaburraLounge, oh, perhaps it's cute.
And then, oh, and it has likegreens and pinks.
(44:49):
So that way it kind of goes inthe things which I mean,
obviously not necessarily sayingthat we have to ascribe to any
type of change or stereotype sothat any of those things matter.
In the long run, your childwill or will not be a flash
choice that we get to make.
They decided they are forthemselves.
However, it will be really funand very cute.
Speaker 2 (45:06):
We're just going to find out, we're just going to
celebrate the kind of genitaliathey're likely to have, and now
my cuckoo clock's going off.
So, all right, stay tuned,folks.
Speaker 1 (45:22):
I think we're going to have a blast of shower
episode coming at you.
It's going to be a blast.
The Backup Plan is created,produced and hosted by me,
meredith Kate.
Julian Hagans is my co-producer.
You can find us on social mediaat Backup Plan Pod.
The best place to get updatesis to sign up for our newsletter
at BackupPlanPodcom, where wealso post all episodes, show
(45:42):
notes and transcripts.
Thank you for listening.
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