SANDRA HATTON: Why Dating Isn’t Broken | EPISODE 20 - The BASIC Show

Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
He was I went on 28 dates in 30 days, but in real
life, nine times out of ten,people do not look like their
photos.
I think a lot of people saydating is broken.
Um, matchmaking is verydifferent than online dating.

SPEAKER_01 (00:15):
Men will never marry the love of their lives.
Yeah.
Men always will marry whoeverwhenever they're ready.

SPEAKER_00 (00:22):
She just said to me, I was married for 20 years, I've
never been in love.
What I believe is that the onlydating woman's real
relationship.
It always makes me sad whennobody's ever felt butterflies
or had that feeling.

SPEAKER_01 (00:58):
We are here at 405 motoring, the ultimate out of
spot.
Very cool location.
I feel like we're in the movie,and I have a very special guest,
Sandra Hayton from When WeFirst.
Hi Sandra.
Hello.
Welcome to the basic show.
Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 (01:14):
Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_01 (01:16):
I love your dress code for today.
Today's season theme is darkmatter, inspired by F1 Meets
Matrix.
And I love how you prepared andso edgy, vampy, a little bit
dangerous.

SPEAKER_00 (01:27):
Thank you so much.
This is a very New Yorkwardrobe.
Very easy to throw together someblack clothes.
And I watched Matrix on the wayhere.

SPEAKER_01 (01:35):
Wow.
Okay.
I love how you preparedemotionally for this for this
episode.
And speaking of New York, right?
It's sex in the city, this iswhere uh all of the stories and
love stories and drama is comingfrom, right?
So tell us about your company.
And I have a lot of questions.
Let's start from the verybeginning.
When are we first?

(01:55):
Yeah, how did it start?
You know, what is it about?
Give us a few lines about umyour new venture.

SPEAKER_00 (02:01):
Yeah, so I've been in matchmaking for 16 years this
year, so a long time.
And I started at a very largematchmaking service.
I was there for 13 years as thevice president.
And I just kind of found therewas a need for a lot of work to
be done in the dating industry.
I think a lot of people saydating is broken.

(02:24):
And matchmaking is verydifferent than online dating,
it's always been around forthousands of years.
Um, and so matchmaking services,their goal and job is to match
people based on theirrelationships and kind of in a
way find matches for you andcoordinate them and arrange
them.
So the company that I was atjust didn't really use any
technology, and matchmakingdoesn't really have a lot of

(02:47):
technology, it's very intuitiveand personal.
But I believe in technology.
So I really wanted to, I gotlucky enough to create a brand
that combines both technologyand the human touch.

SPEAKER_01 (03:01):
So, in my personal experience, what I believe that
online dating ruined realrelationship.

SPEAKER_00 (03:08):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (03:09):
And it kind of damaged how okay, we're here.
Wow.
You guys now feel a part of theset.
We have the planes, the cars,the motorcycles.
Now you understand that we'reactually not in the studio.
We're not in actual outer shop.
So let's go back to dating,right?
So can you actually explain tome how, in your opinion, yeah,

(03:30):
online dating didn't ruin, ormaybe it could actually elevate
and help people to find theirtrue match.

SPEAKER_00 (03:35):
Yeah, I've always believed that no matter where
you meet, someone is good,whether it's online, whether
it's in person.
Of course, everybody wants tomeet somebody naturally who
doesn't want to just meetsomeone at the grocery store,
you know, walking down thestreet.
But I personally have seen a lotof people have success online.
I've personally had successonline, but it's changed a lot

(03:56):
in the last few years,especially since like COVID
times, where people just havekind of shifted their mindset
that they want to meet in personagain, but it's really hard.
You know, it's really hard.
So we developed a dating appthat essentially has a human
button.
So it's a human element in theapp to give people an

(04:18):
opportunity to get help onlinedating better, whether it's to
set up their profile if theydon't know how or just don't
want to do it, um, or to get acoaching session if not they're
not ready for matchmaking.
But then behind the scenes, youhave a bunch of matchmakers and
dating experts helping to guidethe way.
And then we do separate offlinematchmaking.

(04:39):
So kind of consider it the firsthybrid dating service that has
both online and offline.
But if you're gonna date online,it will just be a better way to
do it.

SPEAKER_01 (04:46):
Okay, so you have an app, yeah, kind of more of a
traditional way that we used to.
Yeah.
And then as an additionalfeature, you have the human
button where uh your what do youcall the the candidates, right?

SPEAKER_00 (04:59):
What's the right way to the Yeah, clients, clients,
candidates.

SPEAKER_01 (05:02):
I don't like to use the word users because you know,
or people, so yeah.
Humans, humans looking forhumans.
So then you have an additionalfeature of an actual matchmaker,
person, a human person.
A human person, yeah.
Who actually is there with youthroughout your journey?
But do you think it could be alittle bit biased?
Or maybe let me paraphrase thequestion.

(05:24):
Do you think um there is adifference between a using an
algorithm that's morestereotypical versus having an
actual person who is getting toknow you and finding a match?
Maybe I don't know if it's toojudgmental or subjective.
How do you approach that?

SPEAKER_00 (05:39):
Yeah, well, let me start with we built our
algorithm ourselves the way thatno other dating app has one.
So it's 99% on relationshipgoals, qualities and characters.
Another plane.
Another plane, and and likethings that you actually have in
common.
So it's not a Swipe app, youonly get a couple of matches a
day.
So we didn't copy an algorithmfrom any other dating app to

(06:02):
just kind of randomly match youon like what kind of pizza you
like.
It's really based onrelationship goals.
And then again, the whole pointof the app is to just help
people date better until theyfeel more comfortable and see
more value in matchmaking.
So I am a little biased, ofcourse.
I'm a matchmaker.
I I know that matchmaking worksbetter because we're intuitive,

(06:24):
we understand people better whenyou get to know someone.
And an app, I don't believe,really can do that.

SPEAKER_01 (06:29):
Do you think with apps, the problem, in my
opinion, is that we have toomuch choice, right?
And the apps that becamesuccessful nowadays, they became
successful just because you haveaccess to so many people.
Yeah.
So you have a huge pool ofpotential candidates, yet we're
still searching and searching,and maybe the illusion of choice

(06:50):
um doesn't really lead many, youknow, to finding the true match.
Or maybe the problem is that inat the bottom of it, we don't
know really what we want.
So if we'll go back tocandidates that on your app, do
you think people actually knowexactly what they want?

SPEAKER_00 (07:07):
People think they know what they want.
So, like if you go on your phoneand you're looking for an outfit
or a pair of sunglasses orshoes, you're just gonna
continue to see those things popup in your algorithm.
The same thing goes for a datingapp.

But think about it this way: just because you're seeing them (07:21):
undefined
and they're popping up on yourapp doesn't mean those things
want you back.
So it's kind of like shopping,but the person on the other end
has to really want to purchaseyou back.
It's a strange analogy, butthat's why it doesn't work
because you're just able to kindof order up a match, but it is

(07:41):
it really a true match, you knowwhat I mean?

SPEAKER_01 (07:43):
So it sound more like a dateable inventory in a
sense that we approach thingslike love and happiness and joy
uh in in in the into thechecklist, right?
And saying I want one, two,three in a partner.
And maybe in real life you meetsomebody who you fall in love
that doesn't match yourchecklist.

(08:04):
So, yeah, in your experience,how do you actually find matches
for each other?

SPEAKER_00 (08:10):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (08:11):
What questions do you ask or what criteria do you
use?

SPEAKER_00 (08:13):
We always start for matchmaking with a minimum of an
hour interview.
The number one thing that wematch on is your relationship
goal.
Because if you don't have thesame goals, nothing else matters
at all.
You can have chemistry, you canbe attracted, you can have
things in common, you can belaughing.
But what does that matter ifyour goals don't align?
So that's the first thing, andthat's exactly how our algorithm

(08:36):
is set up on the app, anyway.
And then after that, it's thetop qualities and
characteristics that you'rereally looking for.
So I think when people come tomatch, making they've had enough
experience or time, or I call itlike a light bulb moment,
trigger moment, if you will,where they decide this is what I
want, this is what is importantto me.
And they're kind of in a placeemotionally where they're able

(08:59):
to let us compromise on a coupleof the other things.
So when we do this interview, weare focused on your goals of
relationships, the qualities,the characteristics, the morals,
the values, and lifestyle doescome into play.
Like clearly your lifestyle hasto be compatible enough where
you can see it working, and theneverything else is like get on a
first date and then see ifthere's chemistry, then see if

(09:22):
there's attraction.
But we do find that most peopleare compromising on some things
that they thought on paper wouldbe perfect for them, and then
they end up with someone else.

SPEAKER_01 (09:35):
So, what are those first questions you ask them to
figure out what could be theright match for the person?

SPEAKER_00 (09:42):
Um, the first one is why, why now?
And like, why are they lookingintentionally to date?
Because I just don't think itwill work unless two people are
intentional.

SPEAKER_01 (09:53):
So do you think people's people's goals change
since let's say first time youstarted working, but then maybe
like a few months later?

SPEAKER_00 (10:00):
Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 (10:00):
Oh, really?

SPEAKER_00 (10:01):
Well, if somebody has just got out of a long
relationship or a marriage, theydon't know what they want
sometimes.
They're kind of using that onelong relationship as the
example.
And so sometimes evensubconsciously, they don't know
that they're doing this, butthey're just like, and my
ex-husband or wife was likethis, so that's what I'm looking
for.
And so it does change, it'sfine-tuning as you go.

(10:23):
The whole point is getting outon dates and then figuring out
what you like and what you don'tlike after you meet the person.
Right now, we're just in themindset that I don't want to
meet that person, they don't fitwhat I'm looking for on paper,
and then no one's datinganymore.
Exactly.
Nobody's going on date.
Exactly.
Whereas if you just go on adate, then you can come back and
say rule number one, get out ofthe house.
Yes, go on a date.

(10:44):
Come back and say, Yeah, thatguy sucked or that woman was
awful.
But go find out first because atleast you know the relationship
goals line up, you're lookingfor the same things, those
qualities and characteristicsthat we've vetted for you.
We think they're there, and thenyou can come back and tell us.

SPEAKER_01 (11:00):
Sometimes I feel like people who have the longest
list have some personal issues.
I don't know if it's just me.
Usually the people who are themost demanding have some
personal, you know, umunresolved trauma or things that
they are the problem, right?
Why they're in this situation.
What do you think about that?
Do you think this is the case?

SPEAKER_00 (11:19):
I know every every case is it's a loaded question
because we're all human and weall have things that come to the
table in a relationship.
There's no such thing as aperfect match or a perfect
person.
It's just, are you willing toput in the work in any
relationship or commitment thatyou're in?
What we do that's reallydifferent, and I think we're the
only matchmaking service that'sdoing this.
But the reason I developed itthis way is because dating is an

(11:42):
emotional roller coaster, andespecially if you have things
that you have to work on, we doweekly coaching with our clients
to just kind of keep themencouraged and motivated and
sometimes help them with some ofthe things that you're doing.

SPEAKER_01 (11:54):
What is a weekly coaching?
What could you possibly coach?

SPEAKER_00 (11:57):
Well, I mean, a lot of it is just staying positive.
Like, you know, you want toattract the right partner.
So if you're in that negativemindset or negative energy, or
you know, even if it's just thatyou had a bad day at work and
you're going on a date thatnight, like let's get on a quick
call to you know, prep you andpump you back up.

SPEAKER_01 (12:13):
It's all comes back to you, right?
Yeah.
Feeling in the right space, youknow, being happy, feeling
fulfilled outside of or beforegetting into the relationship.

SPEAKER_00 (12:22):
You will attract no matter what.
I think that there's somemisconceptions that you'll just
always attract the same kind ofthing.
You're just gonna attract ifyou're attracting, but like be
have discernment, attract theright kind of positive energy,
be that energy so you notice ifit's outside of that.
So you're like, oh, okay, thisperson's not on my level.
And I don't mean career-wise ormy, I'm saying energetically,

(12:45):
mindset-wise.

SPEAKER_01 (12:46):
So tell us your personal story.
What actually triggered youpersonally?
I mean, you mentioned earlierthat you did find, do you may
ask you, do you have a partner?

SPEAKER_00 (12:54):
Not right now, not right now.

SPEAKER_01 (12:55):
But you said you had a partner that you found uh uh
online, right?

SPEAKER_00 (13:00):
I did not meet, I've met three partners online, which
is a lot, I think.

SPEAKER_01 (13:05):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (13:06):
Well, as a matchmaker, it's a little bit
easier for me to go online andfind matchmakers.
They have a little bit of a, youknow, I'll just say I have a way
to do it.
Um, I think the the first personI met online was, gosh, so long
ago, I I don't want to say howlong, but it was a long time
ago.
And he was, I went on 28 datesin 30 days.
Well when I first got into thedating industry.

(13:27):
I was like, how do you date?
I don't know how to date.
Let me figure this out.
And he was the very last date,the 28th date.
And it was the one that I reallydidn't want to go out with.
I was like, there is no way I'mgonna date this.
Isn't it interesting?

SPEAKER_01 (13:40):
Yeah.
Like you usually a women I Ibrought a concept actually
backstage a few uh a fewepisodes back, and and I want to
hear your opinion on it.
Yeah, the opinion was that themost happiest, fulfilling
relationships are 10, 6, wherethe partner is a 10 and the
other partner is a six, just thevisually.
It doesn't have to be the bestlooking partner in the world,

(14:03):
but let's say uh your six, youryour type six, your type 10.

SPEAKER_00 (14:07):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (14:08):
So, and interesting that you mentioned because this
is not the first time I'mhearing when a woman says, you
know what?
I actually really greatchemistry with the guy that
didn't want to go out on a date.
Oh, I didn't really like him inthe beginning.
What is your opinion?
Why why does it happen?

SPEAKER_00 (14:21):
I think again, just we're human, we we prejudge, we
pre-qualify, we think we know,but I think the universe has
other plans for overanalyze,overthings.

SPEAKER_01 (14:30):
Everything.

SPEAKER_00 (14:30):
I mean, men are more visual, and and that's fine.
I think it's fine.
Everybody wants to be attractedto their date, but you know, I
think as women we have adifferent kind of list.
And so this particular personthat I went on a date with, he
did not meet that list at all.
I mean, I'll just say it he was.

SPEAKER_01 (14:46):
You mean after the first date or before?
Before.

SPEAKER_00 (14:49):
He's a firefighter, he works at a bar.
Not my kind of guy.
Okay.
Not gonna date that guy.
We ended up dating for a longtime.

SPEAKER_01 (14:55):
Wow.
Yeah.
So what made you like him whenyou first met him?

SPEAKER_00 (14:58):
He was charming, he was charismatic, he was
confident, a lot of masculineenergy.
I really like masculine energy.

SPEAKER_01 (15:03):
I mean, I think hopefully not toxic, masculine.

SPEAKER_00 (15:05):
Oh, but you know, I mean, had that, but also very
shovel.
I mean, a firefighter that wasvegan.
I mean, does that exist?
Okay, you know, there were justthings that I was like, okay,
this guy's impressive.
It was a storm, it was a winterstorm.
I mean, a blizzard.
The snow was this high, and hecarried me home.
Wow.
Like physical.
Romantic.
I know.
So I was like, all right, maybehe's not so bad.

SPEAKER_01 (15:30):
Right?
It's a very dangerous job tohave.

SPEAKER_00 (15:32):
It's very dangerous.
So I mean, three relationships,and I was able to just the the
second to just pick them out.
And it was the only date I wenton when I just so happened to be
on an app.
And that was many years ago.
But so I know it can happen.
So I think in my industry, I wasthe only matchmaker that I knew
of that didn't really knockonline dating.
Because I thought, why would Iknock that just because it's
different?
If you're able to meet someoneany way, meet them, go out on

(15:56):
dates.
Don't be scared, right?
Don't worry about what's gonnahappen.
Talk to your girlfriends aboutit afterwards if it sucks and
laugh about it.

SPEAKER_01 (16:04):
Would you go on a second date if let's say first
date was like, meh, okay, youdidn't really get that chemistry
with a person?
Yeah, you would still go.

SPEAKER_00 (16:11):
If if so the rule is, is there an alignment?
Don't worry about is he thehottest guy?
Is he the most successful guy?
Just is there an alignment withyour values, with your morals,
your goals?
And some of those things do meanfinancially or lifestyle,
because is there an alignmentwith those things?
But do you feel aligned?

(16:32):
And then if you do, a seconddate's worth it because that is
sometimes when chemistryhappens.
You just don't know.
Or even the third date, I I cantell you hundreds of couples
that I've matched that if I goback and read their feedback
from the first date, like one ofthem will say, She was amazing.
I heard, you know, birds singingand bells ringing, and and the

(16:53):
woman's like, he was okay.
When's my next match?
See 6'10.
But then he liked them.
And they ended up gettingmarried, or they'll call you and
say, Oh, I forgot to tell you.
We've been dating for sixmonths, and you're like, wait a
minute.

SPEAKER_01 (17:06):
But okay, so I have a question.
So on the first date, you speakabout alignment, right?
Yeah.
And I think, isn't it tooartificial, right?
Because usually if you meetpeople in real life, right, you
don't know their actual goals,you don't know the actual
backstory, you don't know howthey're gonna behave in the in a
difficult situation in life,right?
You only see them for the firsttime.
So is it appropriate at thefirst date ask them, okay, what

(17:30):
are your goals?
What are you trying to achieve?
The questions I hate is like,what are you looking in the
relationship?
Yeah.
Do you think this is appropriateto ask during the first date or
leave for the second, third dateand just see how the chemistry
goes during the first date?

SPEAKER_00 (17:42):
So again, the way that we match, you won't be
meeting someone unless yourgoals align, like, kind of do
that for you because that's thepoint.
Okay.
You want to make sure that therelationship goals line up and
you know, you already walk intothat date feeling confident.
The person across the table,they're looking for what you're
looking for, they're on the samekind of wavelength.
So you don't feel uncomfortablesaying, by the way, what are you

(18:04):
looking for?
You already know.
I think that's also why we setup the app that same way.
So even if you match withsomeone on the app, they have to
at least kind of have those samegoals.
But otherwise, if you're justmeeting someone on another app
or out and about, yeah, I thinkit's totally fine to ask what
your goals are in arelationship.

SPEAKER_01 (18:21):
Yeah, but see, you have to bear in mind not
everybody's truthful.
So let's say when you work withyour candidates, right?
Your humans, um, how truthfulare they during that first hour
of interview?

SPEAKER_00 (18:32):
Well, I mean, if they're contacting a matchmaking
service, most of our clientsdon't have a problem dating.
You know, they're really justlooking for quality, substance,
and they don't want to settlefor anything.
So that's usually why.
And that's like I said, I talkedabout the light bulb moment.
We call it the emotionaltrigger.
There's usually something that'slike, okay, I'm ready to take
this more seriously.

(18:52):
So I don't I haven't come acrossanyone that's lying about what
they're looking for because itdoes take contention, it takes
time, and there's an investmentfinancially too.
So I do think that that kind ofweeds out some of that problem.
Now, online, not so much,because online it's like free or
not that expensive.

SPEAKER_01 (19:10):
So, speaking of investment, do you only work
with wealthy clients?

SPEAKER_00 (19:14):
No, we are really, I think that was something that I
had a problem with because Ididn't grow up with money.
And I think that, you know,there's all different kinds of
people and walks of life, andeverybody deserves love.
Every it's free, right?
Love is free.
Not everywhere.
But it's but you know what Imean?
So, yeah, I mean, in terms ofwhat we charge, I think it's a

(19:37):
very high value.
And yes, we have quite largepackages as well for wealthy
people, but then we also haveaccessible packages for those
that are still serious aboutdating and want to make a
reasonable.

SPEAKER_01 (19:49):
Let's speak about your male clients, right?
Who are using the matchmakingservices?
Yeah.
Let's speak about those men.
Sure.
I love talking about those men.
Let's speak about let's speakand see who these men are.
And yeah, I will I will narrowdown my question.
So you have experience throughyears.
Do you think men's um desire forcertain qualities in women

(20:10):
changed throughout the years?
Say before they worried aboutthe body count, they wanted a
nurturing, a woman who can cook.
And nowadays, maybe some menwould say, I want a woman who
inspires, who has her ownventure.
Yeah.
Can you give us a little profilefor these men that you're
working with?

SPEAKER_00 (20:28):
It's hard to give a generalization because I, again,
I think there are differentkinds of people.
Um, I think in general, the busyprofessional men that come to
us, they're at the point wherethey do want to meet a woman
who, yes, has the femininequalities, who's nurturing and
loving and kind, but they alsowant them to have something
going on, right?
Because they can find a womananywhere.

(20:51):
You know, they're successful intheir own right, they don't have
a problem meeting womenanywhere.
Men unfortunately have the upperhand sometimes when it comes to
that.
That's what I was thinking.

SPEAKER_01 (21:00):
Sorry to interrupt you, but sometimes you think if
the man has to use the serviceof a matchmaker, something might
be wrong with him.
If you cannot, you know, go outthere and meet a woman, you
know, in real life.

SPEAKER_00 (21:12):
It's kind of the opposite.
Really?
Smart men don't want to wastetheir time.
You know, their time is theirlargest resource and their
biggest asset.
A successful man, he does notwant to waste his time.
So if he's really looking for asubstance, he's still gonna have
the list of the other things.
But usually he wants that womanto have their own career,
profession, something going onoutside of the relationship.

(21:36):
So it's gonna be a good one.
That's the majority of the menthat we work with.

SPEAKER_01 (21:39):
So let's go back to the profile.
So most of them are successful,I say I would say busy.

SPEAKER_00 (21:44):
Busy is a big one.
Most of our clients in general,no matter women or men, are
pretty busy.

SPEAKER_01 (21:49):
So is it a problem if the man is successful yet too
busy for a relationship?
Say when they do need theirmatch, are they willing to
compromise their lifestyle forthat special person?

SPEAKER_00 (21:58):
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (22:00):
They are, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (22:00):
That's why they I mean, if you think about it,
they're even taking time to geton a call every week with their
matchmaker.
So they're come, you know,they're taking that time
intentionally to meet the rightperson to make more time.
I mean, I'm trying to think ofthis gentleman I was talking to
the other day and he was tellingme how busy he is and all the
places he's going and all thesethings to do.
And I said, Wow, it doesn'treally seem like you have a lot
of time for him.

(22:21):
He's like, I'm just doing thesethings because I don't have the
woman or she can come with me.
You know what I mean?
So he doesn't have a woman?
Yeah.
So, you know, he's gonna be morebusy on his own than when he has
a woman.
For example, he was travelinglike all over the world, just
everywhere.
And I said, Are you sure you'reeven gonna be in town if I have
a date for you?

(22:42):
He's like, I'll be in town forher, she can come with me.
I'm doing these things because Idon't have anyone in my life.

SPEAKER_01 (22:47):
So you think they come to you because they
actually determined or they areuh determined to be more
committed, right?
They're competing.
Yeah.
Because nowadays with the apps,people usually, men mostly say,
you know, I'm just looking,right?
I just want to see what's outthere, or you know, I just want
to see where it takes.
But do you believe when you seeand you feel your match, you

(23:07):
actually know this is it, I'mgonna change my whole life just
to be with that person?

SPEAKER_00 (23:11):
I think a man will make time for the right woman,
absolutely.
They do.
Time and time again, we see it.
Absolutely.
I mean, every man's different.
I'm not gonna say they're gonnaquit their jobs and just open up
their schedule, but I mean, ifthey're an app is different, so
I just want to separate that.
Like, there's a lot of men onapps that are just there to get

(23:32):
a dopamine boost, an ego boost,go on a couple dates here or
there, not intentional fordating.
But when it comes to a man who'spurchasing a matchmaking
membership, there's a reasonhe's ready to find a partner.

SPEAKER_01 (23:45):
Do does it put more pressure on you, especially for
men who are successful andthey're paying high price for
matchmaking service?
Do they actually put thepressure on you like I paid for
this, I need the results?

SPEAKER_00 (23:57):
Yes.
So how do you how do you handleyou manage it the best you can?
I mean, I try in my my personalway is you know, I try to give
them most everything that theyhave in their checkbox for the
cur the first couple of matches.
And then once they have yourtrust and they say, Okay, then

(24:17):
they just trust you and theydon't ask any more questions
like whatever you think, youknow me, you got this.
So you just kind of have to earnthat trust a little bit.
But yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (24:26):
Did any male clients hate on you personally?
Yes, most most times.
How do you feel about that?

SPEAKER_00 (24:32):
I just keep it professional.
I've really never I get thatquestion a lot.
I've never dated a client, I'venever said, Oh yeah.
I mean, just m ethically andmorally, I just I don't I don't
do that, but yeah, it's prettycommon.

SPEAKER_01 (24:45):
So, okay, so you okay, so you're a successful
woman, you have your agency, yetyou don't have a partner.
Yeah.
So how come, you know, yeah, isit something that our standards
are too high?
Is it something that we knowexactly what we want?
What is it?

SPEAKER_00 (24:58):
Why do you think I think it's I don't like to think
that there's such a thing as toohigh of standards?
I mean, your standards shouldbe, like I said, your morals,
your values, the qualities,characteristics.
I think as women, we think it'sall these other things.
Like, I personally don't have along list like that.
Um, because I I just have a lotof experience, so I can see what

(25:18):
works and what really doesn'twork.
Um, so I think in general, somewomen do need to, I don't want
to say lower your standards, butreally think about what are
those standards.
Like, are those standards reallyyour must-haves?
Um, but in general, I thinkevery we're human, we have our
experiences for a reason, youknow, no matter if you've been

(25:39):
in one relationship or five orten.
I got lucky starting thisjourney when I was 27 and just
seeing that people can find loveat any age, at any time.
I'm kind of like a hopelessromantic in that way.
Like I've seen it happen.
So I'm just so can you sharewith us some success stories?

SPEAKER_01 (25:57):
Like your personal favorites one?

SPEAKER_00 (25:59):
Well, I was gonna tell you about my grandma, but
she's not one of my successors.
So my grandma got married againat 84, and she's been married
for another alive and kicking.
She's 95, I think.
She'll kill me.
She's not persistence.
She didn't give up.

SPEAKER_01 (26:09):
Never give up.
84.

SPEAKER_00 (26:11):
No, you just cannot.
But I've had a few really funsuccess stories.
Um, so has my team, because myteam is all really experienced
too.
But one of my favorites was thiswoman, and I won't say her name.
Matchmaking is confidential, bythe way, so we never give out
last names or whatever.

SPEAKER_01 (26:26):
We're gonna call her Jessica.

SPEAKER_00 (26:27):
Yeah, she was a radio host, she did all these
like radio ads for the company Iwas working for.
So she would be the person thatwould do the voice of the
commercial and say, call thisnumber and blah blah blah.
And then one day she contactedpersonally to get matchmaking.
And she just said to me, I wasmarried for 20 years, I've never
been in love, don't believe init, but I want to meet someone.

(26:49):
And I said, Okay, and it kind ofmade me sad.
It always makes me sad whennobody's ever felt butterflies
or had that feeling.
Because I think we deserve itall.
Long story short, I set her upfirst date actually with this
gentleman.
Oh, yeah, I forgot to say thispart.
She purchased a house likeoutside of a big city.
She said, I just bought thishouse, I'm not moving into the

(27:10):
city, I'm not gonna change mylifestyle for anyone.
And maybe like three monthslater, she called me and I
didn't even recognize her voicebecause she said, Oh my gosh, I
forgot to tell you.
I forgot to tell you.
I you know, the guy that you,yeah, you know, the guy that you
set me up with.
I just sold my house, we'removing in, we're getting

(27:31):
engaged.
And the cutest thing she said,she goes, I felt butterflies for
the first time in my wholeschool life.
And I said, Oh, and it's justthat's why I do it.
It's just beautiful to see that,you know, because she was
happily married for so long andnever felt that feeling.
So I have so many like that.
And again, almost everything wasoutside of her box that she was
looking for.

SPEAKER_01 (27:51):
So you must have some kind of, I don't know if
it's obviously your experience,but do you have any specific
skill set?
Because every time I'm trying topersonally match somebody, I'm
like, oh my god, they're gonnabe so perfect.
Somehow they see each other andthey both say, we hated each
other.
We hate and I asked, and I andit's so many times I feel
miserable.
I'm like, oh my god, this youguys are gonna be perfect and

(28:12):
they hate each other.
So I know it sounds easy, butit's actually very difficult.
Yeah, how is a specific skillset to do that?
I think it's intuition.

SPEAKER_00 (28:20):
I know that sounds really weird, but like, I mean,
my co-founder Marielle, she'smatched some people too, just
she just has, and it'sintuitive.
Like my first year, I was awfulat it.
I remember my first year, I hadno success stories, no
relationships.
I had a woman show up in myoffice screaming, like I had to
call security on her.

(28:41):
Oh, wow.
She was so mad because she hatedher first date, and I was like,
This is what am I doing?
I don't know what I'm doing.
My second year, I had sevenmarriages and 13 out of 14
people I matched on a firstdate, and it was all outside of
what they were looking for, andit was all a feeling I had.

SPEAKER_01 (28:57):
So if you have to observe that common pattern,
yeah, uh, based on those, let'ssay, seven successful marriages,
and you mentioned they weren'tat each other's like type,
really, right?
So, what what was it?

SPEAKER_00 (29:09):
I just I wish I could say it's it's intuitive.
Like you you listen to when youdo an interview with someone,
they might say something.
It could be a quote, it could bea phrase, it could be it's
usually something reallypersonal that they might say to
you and you just remember it.
You just remember it, and thenyou're on this other interview
with another call with someoneelse, and you're like, uh-huh.

(29:29):
Sometimes they're saying theexact same thing, like in the
same order.
There's sequences, and I'm like,this has to be something else.

SPEAKER_01 (29:36):
Wait, so when you experience, do the people who
match, do they have the samepersonalities, likes, and you
know, things they like to do?
Uh so, like you say, they saidthe same thing, or you or you
believe in opposites attract?

SPEAKER_00 (29:49):
I think there's a lot of opposites attract.
Um, I don't I think lifestyle,some things must be compatible.
Hobbies and interests, whocares?
Let him go play golf.
You can go to your brunch withyour girlfriends, like you do
not.
Not need to have everything incommon with someone that is
silly.
You know, I mean some things,yes.
Um, but what it really is is itgoes back to personalities.

(30:10):
Like, do your personalitiesmatch?
Like sense of humor, like ifhe's got a really dry sense of
humor and someone else doesn'tget that, I'm probably not gonna
think you're a good match.
Um, but when it comes to whatyou're looking for, the values
in someone, like those thingsline up for a reason, you know,
and so if someone's reallyhonest and really wants someone

(30:31):
honest, I'm gonna think of thatfirst.
Um, but I when I say things thatthey say, it could be just like,
oh, my favorite island and I didthis or that, and then someone
else says the same thing.
It could just be somethingsmall, but they also have to
still fit, like I said, therelationship goals.
I have to think you're gonna beattracted physically to each
other.
Um, but personality-wise, I dofind that opposites do attract

(30:53):
often.

SPEAKER_01 (30:53):
So to summarize, you pretty much saying, Okay, the
goals have to align, right?
They have to be in the samestage of their life.
Hey, I want to get married orwant to have a family or just
looking for a seriousrelationship.
And then you look at thecharacter qualities, right?
So what are those qualities thatthey both looking in each other,
right?

SPEAKER_00 (31:11):
And then some of the things that we try to tweak are
okay, I know you said you onlywanted blondes, or I know you
said you only wanted someonethis height, or I know you said
you only wanted this age.
Those are the things that wematch or try to match outside
of.
So those are the thingssometimes we compromise on.
You don't know exactly whatcolor hair or eyes or height or
age even that your person is.

SPEAKER_01 (31:33):
So do so speaking of that, do you believe in
visualization?
Say if you're looking forsomebody, you should just write
down every single uh, you know,visual characteristic, uh
personal um characteristic, youknow, every little detail about
what they do, what they like,and then you think they will
have more chances to find apartner, or just you know, be

(31:53):
free, just flow, you know, gowith the flow.

SPEAKER_00 (31:56):
I think it's important to manifest for sure
and visualize.
But I when it comes to whatsomeone looks like, I don't know
about that.
I think that's kind of where itcan get a little gray.

SPEAKER_01 (32:07):
So it looks a secondary.

SPEAKER_00 (32:08):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (32:09):
I mean, maybe that's the problem, especially welcome
to California.
I think everything is like loopsbased story.
I don't know if it's the same inNew York, right?
People are obviously, I knowguys are very visual, but women
are too, right?
And I think most of the peoplewho are trying to match, they
look at the I mean, obviouslyappearance is important, but
they look only at the looks andthe chemistry, which is not
enough, right?

SPEAKER_00 (32:28):
Do you know what the craziest thing is?
I have done so many interviewsin person, like in real life.
I've done over 10,000interviews.
Oh, wow.
Total.
But in real life, nine times outof ten, people do not look like
their photos.
So when you're looking on an appand you're like, not attractive,
not for me, you don't evenreally know what that person
looks like.
Oh, you're 65, you're 35.

(32:49):
Men look way better in personthan in photos.
Men, sorry, you're terrible attaking photos.
They don't know how to do it,they don't know what photos to
pick.
They do selfies.
We don't, men should not doselfies, gym photos, bathroom
photos.
Enough of that.
Like, stop doing it, please.

SPEAKER_01 (33:03):
Do it professionally.

SPEAKER_00 (33:04):
And they come in and I'm like, we gotta go take.
I will just take out my cellphone and take pictures of them.
I bought, I'm not aphotographer.
I bought a professional cameraso that way when I meet with
clients, I'm like, we're gonnago fix what you're doing online.
So it's just silly to to thinkvisually it has to look like
this and swipe someone on an appwhen you just don't really know
what they look like.
Have you ever done like blindblind dates?

(33:24):
Yeah, my first year was blinddating.

SPEAKER_01 (33:26):
Uh-huh.
Your personal one.

SPEAKER_00 (33:27):
Like when I said, Oh, have I been on a blind date?

SPEAKER_01 (33:30):
No, I'm just saying in general with your clients.
When you've done like let's saythey haven't seen what their
potential date looks like, butjust based on your
recommendation.
Yep.
Yeah.
So how how did it end up?
Is it the girl who camescreaming?

SPEAKER_00 (33:42):
Yeah, that was a blind.
She didn't really care, believeit or not, what he looked like.
She just had some otherqualifications she made.
But um, yeah, my first year wasall blind dates.
And but I met them in person, soI was able to describe pretty
well.
Okay.
But again, it it really doeswork because you're not able to
pre-judge and pre-qualify.
It kind of prevents you fromdoing what we do as humans, is

(34:04):
saying, oh, not attractiveenough for me, doesn't fit this
visualization that I have for myperson.

SPEAKER_01 (34:10):
So they come with no expectations pretty much on the
Friday.
So it takes off the pressure,yeah, right, to like to get
some.

SPEAKER_00 (34:16):
We show photos now and I do believe in that, but I
also we we work withphotographers to take clients'
dating photos.
Like, we won't present someoneunless they have good photos.
I don't care who you are.
If you don't have good datingphotos, we're not gonna present
you to someone else because it'sjust gonna do you a disservice.
So I do believe in sendingphotos, but I also believe that
if you're gonna decline someonebased on a photo, you're really
missing out.

(34:37):
Because they may look way betterin person.
Or you might think that personin the photo looks amazing, and
then you see them in real lifeand you're like, eh.

SPEAKER_01 (34:44):
Probably the best guys are those who are not good
with technology.

SPEAKER_00 (34:47):
Yeah, they don't know what to do.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (34:49):
I'm telling you, it's they're more connected to
themselves, to the nature,right?

SPEAKER_00 (34:54):
Yeah.
And they're they're not thatkind of guy.
They're like, what am I gonnaask my buddies to take a photo
of me?
No, they're not like, hey, takea picture of me to this car.

SPEAKER_01 (35:01):
Especially be careful of the guys who spend
more time in front of themirror.
Yeah, exactly.
Spending time on you, right?
Nobody really wants that guyanyway.
You know, did you have clientslike that?
Yeah, too much into themselves,right?
Ego sense.

SPEAKER_00 (35:14):
But that's why the coaching helps weekly because it
does humble you.
Dating humbles anyone.
Oh, I see.
You know, you get so we getfeedback from uh the clients.
Oh, and we also share feedbackwe get about them.
Interesting.
How do they take it?

SPEAKER_01 (35:27):
Do they take it really personally or are they
actually willing to change?
Every person's different.

SPEAKER_00 (35:32):
Some clients love it.
Some clients do not like it.
And that's fine.

SPEAKER_01 (35:36):
We don't have to share feedback, but it's because
ideally you don't want tochange, right?
For the other person.
You want to find your true matchthat will accept you as you are,
right?

SPEAKER_00 (35:42):
The alignment needs to be there.
So it's like feedback is it'salways constructive because it's
really not about what did you doright or wrong.
It's about is this person rightfor you?
Right?
And so, I mean, sometimes youdid do something wrong on the
date.
Like, were you mean to thewaiter?

SPEAKER_01 (35:56):
And nobody's there to tell you, right?

SPEAKER_00 (35:58):
Yeah, or like, you know, sometimes just simple tips
that people need for dating,especially just getting out
there after a long relationshipor marriage.
You don't know how to dateanymore.

SPEAKER_01 (36:06):
Okay, we do have free access to you today, just
for this one hour.
What is the free three tips youcan give to a couple or two
people who are about to go totheir first date?

SPEAKER_00 (36:17):
Yeah.
I think the first one is whatI've been saying is just make
sure you go in with the mindsetthat this is not about am I good
enough?
Is this person gonna like me?
Am I gonna get a second date?
Am I attractive?
Like, don't even worry about anyof that stuff at all.
Just go in with the mindset thatI'm here to see if this is my
match, and I'll know because I'mgonna feel that alignment.

(36:40):
And I don't say chemistrybecause chemistry is tricky.
We might be like, oh my gosh, itwas so much chemistry, but that
doesn't matter two months later.
Yeah, just stay focused on whatyou're there for and what really
is important to you.
You know, that's the firstthing.
I think that's really important.
The second thing is just havefun.
Like, honestly, just have fun,talk about things that are
really fun, don't make it heavyconversation.

(37:03):
How week is you wanna have, whatgonna be the next?
The one that really gets that'sthe hard you just literally said
the one thing.
Like, if you want children, theyalready know that.
Please don't ask, when do youwant children?

SPEAKER_01 (37:14):
How soon?
That's why I'm single.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (37:17):
Don't you if at least with matchmaking, we're
only gonna match you withsomeone that already wants
children.
So just you don't need to saywhen.
Tell me when, because then he'sgonna get scared.
That's just how men are, that'stheir nature.
Sorry, it's how it goes.
But have fun, you know?
Try to talk about things thatyou might have in common, you
know.
Just men are really attracted towomen who are optimistic and

(37:38):
happy and easygoing.
Even if you're not really likethat, just try for the first
days.
Try, put on a mask, just try,just you know, just have fun and
be yourself.
That's the that's really thesecond tip.
And then if you do have nervesand you're nervous or you're
getting anxiety, which I thinkmen have too, by the way, like
everyone has, especially ifyou're dating intentionally,

(38:00):
you're gonna have a differentlevel of expectation.
I know this is so silly, butjust take 10 deep breaths,
breathe, remind yourself likeit's just a first date.
If this is not my husband, ifthis is not my wife, if this is
not whoever, it's okay.
It's just a date.
And that's why again, if youhave a bad date, which hopefully

(38:21):
you won't, but it can happen.
Dating is dating, you can justlaugh about it with your
matchmaker, you can laugh aboutit with your girlfriends, but
it's just a date, you know.
So just calm yourself, whateveryou have to do, take a walk,
have a glass of water, have aglass of wine.
Whatever.
Before whatever.
Not too much, only one.
Just the one, yeah.
I think two dates, uh two drinksis like a good first date rule.

(38:43):
Just I don't think you shoulddrink more than that on a first
date.

SPEAKER_01 (38:46):
Well, I don't drink at all, so definitely, you know,
I'm good, but girls who aredrinking, just one glass enough.

SPEAKER_00 (38:52):
So and also look, I mean, I hate to say this, but
you have to look your best too.
You have to be comfortable.
So if you're trying to like showup the way that you normally
wouldn't, like you're likereally overdoing it or you're
really underdressed, just try.
You want to look your best toand feel confident.
That's really important.

SPEAKER_01 (39:08):
See, I wanted to talk about that.
So, do you think when women puttoo much effort to look perfect?
Yeah, they put too much pressureon themselves to keep up that
look.
And say when you start datingand being with somebody, they
will never see you at yourperfect.
They may see you in the pajamasand your no makeup on.
Do you think maybe some womenshould try a strategy to come at
your worst?

(39:29):
At your first day saying, hey,this is what you're gonna get.

SPEAKER_00 (39:32):
No, I don't think that.
But I do think that you can lookmore natural.
No, don't come at your worst.
Please don't show up in likejeans and a t-shirt and
flip-flops.
You want to look good, but menactually prefer more natural.
I don't care.
I work with thousands of men.
They, if you look too done up,like too much makeup, how you

(39:54):
know, you just put a that's theywant to see your natural beauty,
they want to see who you are.
So do that, but still put likesome effort into your appearance
for sure.
Dress nice.
I think you should just do thatanyway.
In LA, you have no problem.

SPEAKER_01 (40:07):
Everybody is wearing like I mean try to change and
shift the strategy.
You know, something doesn'twork.
We need to experiment.
One of my previous guests on thepast episodes, um, Tara Um
Kennis Tracy, yeah, uh really,really cool female comedian.
She said she met her futurehusband at the bar.
She didn't expect anything.
She actually wasn't done at herbest, she didn't have makeup on,
and he came up to her.

(40:28):
Yeah, you know, and which makesme actually bring me brings me
to my next question.
Do you think every guy has atype?
So, say when you do onlinedating, the guy just swipes
maybe like because they're boredor because they truly want to
find somebody.
Yeah, and they may swipe swipeaccidentally on the woman they
just think is attractive.
Yeah, but in real life, if let'ssay you're in the bar, you will
only come to the woman that isyour type.

SPEAKER_00 (40:49):
Do you think every guy has a type?
Oh gosh.
On the apps, I hate to say this.
I've heard a lot of men do thisand I've seen them do this.
They just swipe on everyone andthen just see.
It's like the biggest net.
And they just see who matchesback.
That's it.
That's just they just try allsome of them.
As fast as possible.
I'm not saying all, but I'veheard it enough.
Um, because men don't want to dowork, and that's a lot of work

(41:11):
to sit there and read theprofile and like go through it.
Okay.
They didn't read your profile.
They didn't.
They just swiped and it'smatched.
And then and then they lookthrough a little bit more.
I'm not saying all men.
Well, saying in general.
Right.
So online dating, it's hard tosay, do you have a type online?
Now, in real life, yes.

SPEAKER_01 (41:29):
Yes, I think men are.
Which again brings me to my nextpoint.
Okay, so they you're your type,right?
And you said men don't like todo too much work.
So then does it mean when a manis really interested, he does
have to put work, right?
He wants to put work in.
He wants to put work in.
Oh, absolutely.
They love the chase.
He loves every challenge of thegame.

SPEAKER_00 (41:48):
Yeah.
Yeah.
They love to put work in.
Trust me, men love it.
Give them a job, give themsomething to work for.

SPEAKER_01 (41:54):
So what happens for women, if they do like the guy,
do they have to play this gamelike Chase Me game?

SPEAKER_00 (42:00):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (42:00):
Uh, because the thing is, if you do give in too
easily, yeah, you lose.
If you wait too long, you playgames, right?
So what is the right thing?
I know there's no right way, butwith the right person, you don't
have to play any games.
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (42:11):
Okay, so just know that.
Okay, it just comes back to thegame.
It's gonna naturally come,you're gonna know.
But also, you shouldn't alsojust give and give and give and
just assume that every personthat you start dating, I'm just
gonna, you know, no.

SPEAKER_01 (42:23):
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (42:24):
Like, don't give too much.
Men like this is just how menare.
They like to chase, they want tosay, that's it, that's the kind
of woman I want to date.
Give me that challenge.
Let me earn that.
So don't be like, whatever daythis week, I'm available every
night.
You know, if he texts you atfour o'clock on a Tuesday and
said, What are you doingtonight?
You're busy.

(42:44):
That's not a game.
It's like, no, literally, it'sfour o'clock.

SPEAKER_01 (42:47):
Yeah, because you do have your own life, right?
You do have activities outsideof the relationship.

SPEAKER_00 (42:52):
Say, hey, you know, I'd really love for you to make
a plan for me later this week.
Let me know when you're free andI'll see if that lines up.
And then he will.
Also, you can tell men what todo and they will do it, like in
a nice way.
Like, give them a little bit ofa roadmap, but then they have to
show up and do it.

SPEAKER_01 (43:06):
So, how much initiative a woman should take
in a guy she genuinely likes,let's say after first, second
date?

SPEAKER_00 (43:11):
I think it depends on the guy.
I mean, men are different.
Some men are really moreproactive.
Like him.
Yeah, it's assertive.
You know, if it's a nice guywho's a little bit more shy, a
little bit more timid, and youcan tell as a total sweetheart,
it's okay to take a littleinitiative with that guy.

SPEAKER_01 (43:29):
Really?
Is that gonna put him off?

unknown (43:31):
No.

SPEAKER_00 (43:31):
If it's a like again, I'm talking about, I
don't want to give examples, butkind of like, you know, a nice
engineer or like a nice, youknow, guy who isn't really like
you know what kind of guys I'mtalking about.
There's the kind of guy that candate anyone and he's dating all
over.
He needs to do the work.
But another guy that's kind of alittle bit more shy and maybe
he's punching a little bit abovehis belt.

(43:52):
It's okay to give him a littlebit of help.
You know, that's okay.

SPEAKER_01 (43:55):
So it's okay for a woman to call first and text
first?

SPEAKER_00 (43:59):
Again, depending on the guy.
I wouldn't pick up the phone andcall a guy first personally.
But when you say first, if he'sapproached you somewhere out and
about, he's probably gonna callyou first.
I wouldn't call him if Iexchange numbers first.
No, I think that a man shouldalways do that.
But after that, after that'sokay.

SPEAKER_01 (44:16):
Yeah.
So let's say if you had a firstdate, yeah, how long should it
take for a guy to text you backafter the first date to let you
know that okay, he's interested?

SPEAKER_00 (44:26):
Well, if he really likes you, he's probably texting
you that same night, very nextday.

SPEAKER_01 (44:31):
So if the guy didn't text you the same night or even
the day after, yeah, it meanshe's not interested.

SPEAKER_00 (44:37):
No, I mean he could be very busy, but I again I
don't care.
It takes what, like nine secondsto take a say say in a voice
email, hi, I had a really greatdate with you.
I'm really busy at work, butI'll check in with you later.
Literally, how many seconds wasthat?
Five seconds?

SPEAKER_01 (44:52):
The thing is, I think it's so normal for women
to find excuses, right?
They they find excuses whybecause they put everything you
know up front, they like theguys.
So maybe women should be morecautious in saying, you know
what, I'm giving you a chance,but I'm also taking a step step
back for you to do a little bitmore work.
So then I know you invested inthis relationship.

SPEAKER_00 (45:11):
Do not chase, do not again, if he's a really nice,
nerdy guy that doesn't have alot of experience, just be like,
I really like getting a phonecall.
I really like getting a text ora voice memo to check in during
the day.
And if he doesn't do that, allright, you told him what to do,
but don't doesn't mean you doit.
You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 (45:29):
So he still needs to be obviously in his masculine.

SPEAKER_00 (45:32):
But you can give him a little bit of like what you
like and how you like for a manto show up and how you like for
a man to communicate.
That's totally fine.
And a lot of men need that, theydon't know what to do anymore.
Men are having a crisis.

SPEAKER_01 (45:44):
I feel like do you think men are kind of divided
into very specific tribes,right?
Yeah.
The tribe who's like thislabeled toxic masculinity,
alpha, bad narcissist, whateverguy.
Then you have super shy guyswho've been beaten to death.
They're so scared, they'rescared to approach you because
they're scared of sexualharassment, uh, lawsuit on them,

(46:07):
things like that.
And there's guys who like lostand don't know what they want
themselves for their life,right?
Where they're going career-wise,what do they want ambition-wise,
right?
They just kind of don't knowanything about themselves, not
about even thinking about arelationship and going forward.

SPEAKER_00 (46:22):
There's, I always say, I I know this is like a
theory that was on sex in thiscity, but it's like the cab
light, the man, the cab lightthat's on.
But I've always noticed thatlike when I've done an interview
with men who they're telling mewhat they're looking for,
they're like, oh, this isexactly what I want in a woman.
And I'm like, that soundsexactly like the last woman you
dated.
I'm so confused.
Didn't you say you just sitdated a woman who had all those

(46:42):
qualities and she said itperfect?
Why didn't you just end up withher?
Oh, well, I wasn't ready.
I wasn't ready then because Iwas still trying to make partner
at my firm, or I was stilltrying to, you know, do XYZ goal
because men are very different.
Like, we as women, we can doeverything all at once.
We can work, we can play, we canhave babies, we can buy a home,

(47:06):
and look for the love of ourlives and date men really like
they'll date until they'vereached whatever goal that in
their mind they have set to hit,and then the cab light goes on
the light.

SPEAKER_01 (47:18):
At some point, oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 (47:19):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (47:19):
The thing is, at some point, listen, what do you
believe about the expression menwill never marry the love of
their lives?
Yeah, men always will marrywhoever whenever they're ready.

SPEAKER_00 (47:32):
I mean, I have to look at Marielle because
Marielle married my co-founder,she married the love of her
life, and he he did chase her,and like I think he he worked
hard to to get her.
So, and they've been married forwhat 20 years, 18 years?
So, anyway, I'm trying to thinkof the yeah, 18 years.
So I think that on they willthere is some truth to that.

(47:52):
Because sadly, I've seen it, butthat doesn't mean that does not
mean that that man, like youmight meet someone amazing, and
he will do all those things evenif he's not ready if you're the
right person for him.
It's not every man, it's not.

SPEAKER_01 (48:07):
Well, I have a lot of men friends, right?
They're they're friends andsuccessful, handsome guys, and
let's say one guy, right, that Iknow, he would say, I want to
have to have kids, I want tohave a family, right?
He's ready right now.
Yeah.
So if any woman that matchesapproximately his you know um
requirements, he will marry her.
Yeah.

(48:27):
Yet he could be with an amazing,beautiful, loving woman when he
wasn't ready.
Yeah, he would find so manyexcuses that he's not ready, or
you know, he doesn't know whathe wants to do with his life.
It will never happen, right?
For women is maybe different,right?
Yeah.
We are more sensual.
We are always looking for thelove of our lives, you know,
every single day.
Where is it?

SPEAKER_00 (48:46):
It's true, but I I mean I've seen it happen both
ways, is what I'm trying to say.

SPEAKER_01 (48:50):
So we I know we talked about your male clients.
Let's talk for a few secondsabout your female clients.
And what I'm interested mostlyin women who are successful,
yeah, who are not just lookinglike for sugar daddies, right?
Who are not looking just forsomebody to take care of them,
women who have their ownambitions, have their own
businesses.
Through your experience throughthe years, how do you think
women's um requirements towardsmen change?

(49:12):
Yeah.
And what can you recommend andadvise for this women to find
the true match, still being whothey are, not changing their
personality or goals in life?

SPEAKER_00 (49:21):
I think like for a while, um, maybe before COVID,
um, it was a lot more difficultfor women to date.
It's a little bit easier now,believe it or not.
I have just seen, I think ingeneral, both men and women, but
especially women, have been whenI talk to them on the phone,
they've learned to like leanmore into their feminine energy

(49:41):
again and try to be more softand nurturing.
And I think that's really helpedthem with dating and
matchmaking.

SPEAKER_01 (49:47):
You know, to be honest with you, I hate when
they say lean towards yourfeminine energy.
Okay, because what does it mean,right?
Because nowadays when you're asingle woman, yeah, you have no
choice the way the society isformed right now.
No, it's tough, right?
Like we do not have specialfinances to help women to take
care of their livelihood, right?
They need to work to, you know,to provide for themselves.
If they live by themselves, ifif that shelf is broken, they

(50:09):
need to fix it, right?
Yeah, they need to take thetrash can out.
She has to go and take it out,right?
So all these little things wekind of forced by the society or
circumstances to do.
It's like, so how do you lean?
Well, I mean, how do you meanit's the thing?

SPEAKER_00 (50:23):
Take away from like the financial stuff.
Like you have to work, you haveto have a job, you have to have
your independence, you want tobuy what you want to buy.
Like, forget about that stuff.
It's more about your energy whenyou're showing up dating.
You don't have to be like, I'llsplit the check with you.
Don't do that.
Don't ever split the check.

SPEAKER_01 (50:41):
Take your hand anywhere near the check.
Okay, let me ask you.
Sorry to interrupt, it's a veryimportant topic.
So we know that you do not splitthe check on the first date.
Yeah.
What about date five, six,seven, and eight?

SPEAKER_00 (50:53):
If you're dating someone and again, I don't know
how much money he makes, that'sall dependent.
I personally, this is just me,and I'm not saying this is right
for everyone.
I don't split the check.
But ever.
But again, why?
Well, well, sometimes you know,I'll buy dessert or I'll get
this or whatever because I'mgiving more in other ways.
So I think that as women, likewe do give a lot to men.

(51:15):
And when I say your feminineenergy, I do mean your softness,
your nurturing, your care, yoursupport, your encouragement,
your love, all of that stuff.
They can't get anywhere else.
You're giving it to them.
And and I think that's very highvalue.
So as a man, he's more wired towant to protect and provide.
And providing is buying thatdrink you're or that dinner

(51:37):
you're having.
Like, it's really not that hard.
So I think when I say lean intothat, like you don't have to go
into the date and say, Let metell you all these amazing
accomplishments I've had with mycareer and talk about your job
the whole time.
Maybe instead just have a goodtime, have fun, talk about your
passions.
Maybe you're interested in artor a certain book that you're
reading, those kinds of things.
If you have kids, talk aboutyour children and what you know,

(51:58):
that kind of stuff.
That's what I mean by leaninginto your feminine energy
because what is a man not gonnaget at work or with his buddies?

SPEAKER_01 (52:05):
That plus don't forget men are the ones who are
deciding what type of activitiesyou take.
So never take a woman to a placethat you cannot afford, right?
Yeah, you can be creative, youcan find other ways to entertain
or you know, to spend time withyou know with your partner
outside of taking them to themost you know expensive
restaurant in town.

SPEAKER_00 (52:23):
A picnic.
I mean I'm in New York, so I'mlike picnic in Central Park with
a nice bottle of champagne, orjust like you know, one of the
the firefighters that I dated, Iremember I was really busy at
work and he brought me a picnicbasket to the office and he made
everything like thesesandwiches, dessert.
I was like, wow, this is reallycreative.

SPEAKER_01 (52:45):
The effort also and attention that he put into you
know wowing you.

SPEAKER_00 (52:49):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (52:49):
And it worked.

SPEAKER_00 (52:50):
Yeah, and I'm like, wow, this is really nice.
This is a nice thing to do.

SPEAKER_01 (52:53):
So um it's about digesture, right?

SPEAKER_00 (52:56):
So feminine energy doesn't mean don't be
independent, don't be strong, doall those things.
That's for you anyway.
Like you never want to rely onanyone for anything.
I think as a woman, it's veryimportant to have your own
financial means, your own job,your own passions.
And that stuff is what men arestill looking for, like I said
now.
They want you to have that, butat the same time, on the date,

(53:18):
try to be you know, just try tobe in that energy as best.

SPEAKER_01 (53:22):
I guess it's more for relaxed, right?
Then you feel confident whenyou're a man and relaxed, so you
can just lean back and just feelcomfortable with your own.

SPEAKER_00 (53:28):
And the right man's gonna make you feel that way.
He's gonna make you feelcomfortable and safe and calm.
Calm, very important.

SPEAKER_01 (53:33):
Yeah, you're not gonna feel like anxious and
stressed in the wrong place andthe right wrong time with the
wrong person.

SPEAKER_00 (53:38):
Yeah.
And if you do, leave the date.

SPEAKER_01 (53:40):
Well, I love all these tips.
You know, I hope our viewers andum uh our listeners enjoy this
conversation.
Obviously, I could have askedyou a hundred more questions
because it's very precedented.
We can still talk later.
For women and for women for men,so maybe we should have uh one
day part two.
But today on the basic show, wehad Sandra Hayton from When We

(54:01):
First.
Check out her matchmaking agencyand the app, by the way.
Uh, where can uh people findyou?

SPEAKER_00 (54:07):
Yeah, so the app is downloadable on Google and iOS,
and then our website, which isjust when we first.com.

SPEAKER_01 (54:14):
All right.
Well, thank you uh for being onthe basic show, and that's the
rest of my career.
Thank you.
Bye.

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SANDRA HATTON: Why Dating Isn’t Broken | EPISODE 20

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}SANDRA HATTON: Why Dating Isn’t Broken | EPISODE 20