October 20, 2025 • 13 mins
In this episode of The Better Business Analyst Podcast, Benjamen Walsh revisits one of his most powerful models — The 4P+ Framework: People, Processes, Projects and Products.
You might have heard of it before, but this time we’re going deeper.
Discover how the best business analysts connect these four dimensions to move from task taker to value creator — shaping outcomes, not just outputs.
Benjamen unpacks each “P” with real-world examples, practical talking points, and mindset shifts you can apply immediately. Whether you’re working on digital transformation, agile delivery, or strategic analysis, this episode will help you see your work — and your impact — in a whole new way.
🎯 Learn how:
People define the problems worth solving
Processes reveal the inefficiencies and opportunities
Projects deliver structured change
Products create lasting business value
…and how they all loop back in the 4P+ cycle of continuous improvement.
Tune in and elevate your BA thinking today.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Now, I've talked about the 4P Plus model before, that is
people, processes, projects, andproducts.
And today I want to go deeper because this concept isn't just
another framework, it's actuallya mindset.
It's how you move from being a task taker to becoming a value
(00:21):
creator. The truth is, too many BAS get
stuck in the delivery weeds, writing requirements, managing
backlogs, or doing Jira admin and forget the bigger picture.
The best analysts zoom out and see everything.
They see how they connect all the dots.
(00:44):
They connect the people using and shaping the work, the
processes that define how thingsrun, the projects that drive
change, and the products that deliver ongoing value.
The Better Business Analysis Institute presence, the Better
Business Analysis podcast with Kingsman Walsh.
(01:11):
Welcome back everyone to the Better Business Analysis
Podcast, the show where we unpack real world skills,
techniques and thinking that make you a better BA.
I'm Benjamin Walsh, I'm your host and today we are breaking
down the four piece with real example, practical tips and ways
(01:31):
you can apply this model on Monday morning.
I've talked about this model before.
It's a 4P plus model look on Medium.
I looked on our LinkedIn page inorder to find out about this.
I've drawn this up. I've published it as a white
paper, but I want to jump in because people just don't go
deep enough on this. It's a reminder for you as BAS.
(01:52):
It's probably one of the most important mind shift change for
you to embrace, to move from where you are today to actually
being a high value BA Number oneis people.
So you need to understand the human layer.
OK, We need to start with people.
Every process, every project, every product, it all starts and
(02:16):
ends with people. People follow processes, they
deliver projects and they use products.
So if you don't understand the people, you can't possibly
design good systems or solutions.
When I'm teaching, I often say you can't analyse a process
without knowing the people who live in it.
(02:38):
That's where personas, empathy maps and stakeholder analysis
come in. These are not nice to have BA
tools people keep coming at me with they're nice to have or
human centred designs do that. They're essential.
These are essential, these tools, they're essential for
uncovering real needs and pain points, not asking for them.
(03:01):
So BAS moved away from requirements gathering to
elicitation where we a list of tape requirements, right?
So we extract them. We don't just write a list.
Now the problem was when pain points came out and was used
probably came along with with agile and product thinking.
All we did was shift to write a list of pain points.
(03:23):
That's not what this is about. OK, so you need to again extract
needs extract pain, push on the area and see which hurts.
So you need to, for example, find out why staff are
frustrated by maybe an inconsistent process, why your
(03:45):
clients are struggling with poorservice.
The people analysis reveals thatmaybe frontline staff have
different understandings on how to do things.
Maybe it's not a system issue, maybe it's a communication
issue. Once we understand the
individuals involved, the stakeholders, their motivations
and frustrations, then process improvement becomes far easier.
(04:08):
And I don't mean contiguous improvement, I mean process
improvement with a big capital PPeople define the problem via
your entry point. Always start your analysis by
identifying who is affected and how they experience the current
situation. Could be a challenge to do that
(04:30):
because I've already looked ahead #2 processes, the engine
room of any business. Again, people get confused about
this and think processes come aspart of your product or as part
of your project, but actually they already exist.
(04:51):
If people are the heart, processes are the engine.
They define how work gets done today, the steps, the decisions,
and the interactions that turn inputs into outputs.
Well, outcomes. Ideally, a good BA knows that a
bad process can make great people looking confident.
(05:13):
And we talk about process modelling.
I want to talk about it here because this is how you do it.
But whenever we say current state analysis, right, what
we're actually saying in an ideal state is current state
analysis shouldn't need to be done. 100% believe it.
Current state analysis shouldn'tneed to be done.
But every single time, no one's documented what they do.
(05:36):
Current state analysis is just the process of process mapping
and swim lines and BPMN to visualize how things actually
flow right and and not how management thinks they do
things, but actually how real people do it.
But the as this process already exists, it's already there.
So future state is a whole otherrealm which is where BAS, you
(06:01):
know, thrive and that's where our school is.
But documenting what you do today is actually it is what BAS
generally do on a project. But in an ideal state, this
would all be done. And most businesses know the
high level capabilities they do.So the way that you think about
prices at this point are capabilities, their value, their
(06:21):
value chains, their business architecture.
So you can do this across and I suggest that businesses have a
business architecture or enterprise.
BA already knows these high level processes.
So when someone starts, they know the box, they're playing
it. And so I really need you to get
this point, OK? This is why processes become
before the change. They already exist.
(06:45):
I know you might not be doing them before a project or a
product's defined or you know you're working on something, but
they already exist and processesreveal where the problems lie,
which got the this is how we gotfunding to do the product or the
project in the 1st place. OK, so we just need to
(07:07):
understand that current state processes ideally happen first.
They, and when I say that they don't happen that way, but they
should exist in that sense. So if you've got an optimal
business or a business leader, you should know your current
processes at least at a capability rate.
So if you take that definition, then #3 is projects.
(07:28):
And these are the vehicles for change.
Projects are how organizations make change real, and they exist
to solve process problems and deliver improvements through
products or services or capabilities.
But here's the catch. As BA's, we often drop into
(07:49):
projects halfway through, expected to get the requirements
done. And that's the wrong mindset.
Your job isn't to gather requirements to make sure that
the right change happens. That's why you need to
understand where the project sits in the wider organization
and strategy. Who owns the change, what does
success look like? And the project fits within some
(08:12):
capability areas of your organization.
They fit within a process. I once worked on a project where
the goal was implement a new Serum, but when we dug into it,
the real problem wasn't at all. It was that no one trusts the
data, and we should have reframed the project around data
quality and process alignment, not just technology.
(08:34):
But what we actually did was call it a Syrian project and a
change project to kind of say there were parallel things
happening. Projects define how change
happens, and as ABA, your role is to connect the dots between
strategy, the people, the processes, and the eventual
product or service. You change it.
(08:58):
Finally, we have the product that's delivering value beyond
the project. Projects end, but the product
lives on. And I want to make a clarity
here. Even if you're not running
traditional projects or changes and you don't lean start up,
your start up or your product management team, you're doing
changes. OK, a feature request could be a
(09:20):
change. Ideally though, it's not driven
by a feature. It's driven by a process or a
problem you're doing. So that change is a project in
the world of product, whether it's a system or a service or an
internal tool, the product is what delivers ongoing value to
(09:42):
the business and its customers. That's why modern BAS need to
think like product analysts and product managers, right?
As well as project analysts. Products evolve, they get
feedback, they get updates, and they change shape over time.
And a lot of that can be called continuous improvement or
iterations. You know, product feature, you
(10:02):
know, you're adding a new feature and a lot of that can be
just done in the delivery team itself, but they are projects in
this definition. In agile environments, this is
even more important because you'll work closely with product
owners, productizing features, acceptance criteria, you'll be
writing those and validating real world outcomes.
(10:23):
And that loop can go around and around again.
Now, the problem with that isolated way of working on
product is sometimes it loses its purpose within the greater
processes and capability of the business and what it's trying to
achieve and of course within thepeople that ultimately it's
serving because it gets obsessedwith its people, its product
people, right? And even marketers go what
(10:46):
segment, the problem is you needto already wrap that product
layer around in some kind of change layer like either be
delivery framework or a product framework.
And then you wrap that around with the processes and
capabilities of the organizationand you wrap that around with
the people, your stakeholders, your customers, your future and
(11:07):
current customers. Products are the result of great
business analysis, but they're also the beginning of continuous
improvement because every release is another chance to
learn. And just to be clear, who are
you providing the product to people?
And that's where the model goes around at cyclic.
(11:28):
Let's bring it all together. The four piece plus model is
just for statement. People follow processes.
Projects aim to fix or enhance processes or sometimes remove
them. Projects deliver products,
products create value for the people.
(11:49):
And why have we got the Plus andthe 4P Plus model?
That's the feedback loop where people using the product
generate insights really clear. Once it's up and running, the
plus is the most important, and that plus generates insights
that improve the next cycle of change.
And even maybe some of our customers say it grows.
(12:13):
When you start seeing your worldthrough this lens, everything
shifts. You stop just delivering outputs
and you start shaping outcomes and you start to guarantee
value. So that's the deep dive on the
4P Plus model. I get asked about this in
various ways. I keep referring to the model,
but they're questions that relate to these areas, people,
(12:35):
processes, projects and products.
And it's more than a concept. It's adna of Better Business
analysis. And if you want to move from
requirements gathering to strategic value creator, start
mapping your world across these 4 dimensions.
Ask yourself, who are the peopleinvolved?
Who are we delivering? What processes shape their
(12:58):
experience? Where does it fit within the
organization capabilities? What project is delivering this
change or am IA project, am I lean startup and is this really
a project even though we call itcontinuous improvement and what
product or outcome will deliver lasting value?
Thanks for tuning in. I'll speak to you next week.
Now, I've talked about the 4P Plus model before, that is
people, processes, projects, andproducts.
And today I want to go deeper because this concept isn't just
another framework, it's actuallya mindset.
It's how you move from being a task taker to becoming a value
(00:21):
creator. The truth is, too many BAS get
stuck in the delivery weeds, writing requirements, managing
backlogs, or doing Jira admin and forget the bigger picture.
The best analysts zoom out and see everything.
They see how they connect all the dots.
(00:44):
They connect the people using and shaping the work, the
processes that define how thingsrun, the projects that drive
change, and the products that deliver ongoing value.
The Better Business Analysis Institute presence, the Better
Business Analysis podcast with Kingsman Walsh.
(01:11):
Welcome back everyone to the Better Business Analysis
Podcast, the show where we unpack real world skills,
techniques and thinking that make you a better BA.
I'm Benjamin Walsh, I'm your host and today we are breaking
down the four piece with real example, practical tips and ways
(01:31):
you can apply this model on Monday morning.
I've talked about this model before.
It's a 4P plus model look on Medium.
I looked on our LinkedIn page inorder to find out about this.
I've drawn this up. I've published it as a white
paper, but I want to jump in because people just don't go
deep enough on this. It's a reminder for you as BAS.
(01:52):
It's probably one of the most important mind shift change for
you to embrace, to move from where you are today to actually
being a high value BA Number oneis people.
So you need to understand the human layer.
OK, We need to start with people.
Every process, every project, every product, it all starts and
(02:16):
ends with people. People follow processes, they
deliver projects and they use products.
So if you don't understand the people, you can't possibly
design good systems or solutions.
When I'm teaching, I often say you can't analyse a process
without knowing the people who live in it.
(02:38):
That's where personas, empathy maps and stakeholder analysis
come in. These are not nice to have BA
tools people keep coming at me with they're nice to have or
human centred designs do that. They're essential.
These are essential, these tools, they're essential for
uncovering real needs and pain points, not asking for them.
(03:01):
So BAS moved away from requirements gathering to
elicitation where we a list of tape requirements, right?
So we extract them. We don't just write a list.
Now the problem was when pain points came out and was used
probably came along with with agile and product thinking.
All we did was shift to write a list of pain points.
(03:23):
That's not what this is about. OK, so you need to again extract
needs extract pain, push on the area and see which hurts.
So you need to, for example, find out why staff are
frustrated by maybe an inconsistent process, why your
(03:45):
clients are struggling with poorservice.
The people analysis reveals thatmaybe frontline staff have
different understandings on how to do things.
Maybe it's not a system issue, maybe it's a communication
issue. Once we understand the
individuals involved, the stakeholders, their motivations
and frustrations, then process improvement becomes far easier.
(04:08):
And I don't mean contiguous improvement, I mean process
improvement with a big capital PPeople define the problem via
your entry point. Always start your analysis by
identifying who is affected and how they experience the current
situation. Could be a challenge to do that
(04:30):
because I've already looked ahead #2 processes, the engine
room of any business. Again, people get confused about
this and think processes come aspart of your product or as part
of your project, but actually they already exist.
(04:51):
If people are the heart, processes are the engine.
They define how work gets done today, the steps, the decisions,
and the interactions that turn inputs into outputs.
Well, outcomes. Ideally, a good BA knows that a
bad process can make great people looking confident.
(05:13):
And we talk about process modelling.
I want to talk about it here because this is how you do it.
But whenever we say current state analysis, right, what
we're actually saying in an ideal state is current state
analysis shouldn't need to be done. 100% believe it.
Current state analysis shouldn'tneed to be done.
But every single time, no one's documented what they do.
(05:36):
Current state analysis is just the process of process mapping
and swim lines and BPMN to visualize how things actually
flow right and and not how management thinks they do
things, but actually how real people do it.
But the as this process already exists, it's already there.
So future state is a whole otherrealm which is where BAS, you
(06:01):
know, thrive and that's where our school is.
But documenting what you do today is actually it is what BAS
generally do on a project. But in an ideal state, this
would all be done. And most businesses know the
high level capabilities they do.So the way that you think about
prices at this point are capabilities, their value, their
(06:21):
value chains, their business architecture.
So you can do this across and I suggest that businesses have a
business architecture or enterprise.
BA already knows these high level processes.
So when someone starts, they know the box, they're playing
it. And so I really need you to get
this point, OK? This is why processes become
before the change. They already exist.
(06:45):
I know you might not be doing them before a project or a
product's defined or you know you're working on something, but
they already exist and processesreveal where the problems lie,
which got the this is how we gotfunding to do the product or the
project in the 1st place. OK, so we just need to
(07:07):
understand that current state processes ideally happen first.
They, and when I say that they don't happen that way, but they
should exist in that sense. So if you've got an optimal
business or a business leader, you should know your current
processes at least at a capability rate.
So if you take that definition, then #3 is projects.
(07:28):
And these are the vehicles for change.
Projects are how organizations make change real, and they exist
to solve process problems and deliver improvements through
products or services or capabilities.
But here's the catch. As BA's, we often drop into
(07:49):
projects halfway through, expected to get the requirements
done. And that's the wrong mindset.
Your job isn't to gather requirements to make sure that
the right change happens. That's why you need to
understand where the project sits in the wider organization
and strategy. Who owns the change, what does
success look like? And the project fits within some
(08:12):
capability areas of your organization.
They fit within a process. I once worked on a project where
the goal was implement a new Serum, but when we dug into it,
the real problem wasn't at all. It was that no one trusts the
data, and we should have reframed the project around data
quality and process alignment, not just technology.
(08:34):
But what we actually did was call it a Syrian project and a
change project to kind of say there were parallel things
happening. Projects define how change
happens, and as ABA, your role is to connect the dots between
strategy, the people, the processes, and the eventual
product or service. You change it.
(08:58):
Finally, we have the product that's delivering value beyond
the project. Projects end, but the product
lives on. And I want to make a clarity
here. Even if you're not running
traditional projects or changes and you don't lean start up,
your start up or your product management team, you're doing
changes. OK, a feature request could be a
(09:20):
change. Ideally though, it's not driven
by a feature. It's driven by a process or a
problem you're doing. So that change is a project in
the world of product, whether it's a system or a service or an
internal tool, the product is what delivers ongoing value to
(09:42):
the business and its customers. That's why modern BAS need to
think like product analysts and product managers, right?
As well as project analysts. Products evolve, they get
feedback, they get updates, and they change shape over time.
And a lot of that can be called continuous improvement or
iterations. You know, product feature, you
(10:02):
know, you're adding a new feature and a lot of that can be
just done in the delivery team itself, but they are projects in
this definition. In agile environments, this is
even more important because you'll work closely with product
owners, productizing features, acceptance criteria, you'll be
writing those and validating real world outcomes.
(10:23):
And that loop can go around and around again.
Now, the problem with that isolated way of working on
product is sometimes it loses its purpose within the greater
processes and capability of the business and what it's trying to
achieve and of course within thepeople that ultimately it's
serving because it gets obsessedwith its people, its product
people, right? And even marketers go what
(10:46):
segment, the problem is you needto already wrap that product
layer around in some kind of change layer like either be
delivery framework or a product framework.
And then you wrap that around with the processes and
capabilities of the organizationand you wrap that around with
the people, your stakeholders, your customers, your future and
(11:07):
current customers. Products are the result of great
business analysis, but they're also the beginning of continuous
improvement because every release is another chance to
learn. And just to be clear, who are
you providing the product to people?
And that's where the model goes around at cyclic.
(11:28):
Let's bring it all together. The four piece plus model is
just for statement. People follow processes.
Projects aim to fix or enhance processes or sometimes remove
them. Projects deliver products,
products create value for the people.
(11:49):
And why have we got the Plus andthe 4P Plus model?
That's the feedback loop where people using the product
generate insights really clear. Once it's up and running, the
plus is the most important, and that plus generates insights
that improve the next cycle of change.
And even maybe some of our customers say it grows.
(12:13):
When you start seeing your worldthrough this lens, everything
shifts. You stop just delivering outputs
and you start shaping outcomes and you start to guarantee
value. So that's the deep dive on the
4P Plus model. I get asked about this in
various ways. I keep referring to the model,
but they're questions that relate to these areas, people,
(12:35):
processes, projects and products.
And it's more than a concept. It's adna of Better Business
analysis. And if you want to move from
requirements gathering to strategic value creator, start
mapping your world across these 4 dimensions.
Ask yourself, who are the peopleinvolved?
Who are we delivering? What processes shape their
(12:58):
experience? Where does it fit within the
organization capabilities? What project is delivering this
change or am IA project, am I lean startup and is this really
a project even though we call itcontinuous improvement and what
product or outcome will deliver lasting value?
Thanks for tuning in. I'll speak to you next week.
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