August 19, 2025 • 12 mins
In this episode of the Better Business Analyst Podcast, Benjamen Walsh unpacks the Jobs To Be Done (JTBD) framework—a powerful way to understand what customers and stakeholders really need. Forget features—this is about outcomes.
Tune in for 10 practical lessons and tips on applying JTBD to requirements, strategy, and solution design. With real-world examples like FitNation, Uber Eats, and everyday BA scenarios, this episode gives you the toolkit to shift from “what do you want?” to “what job are we solving?”
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
There are quite a few good tips and tricks that I've learned
from studying product management, and today we're
diving into Jobs to Be Done, a way of looking at a customer and
business needs. It goes far beyond features,
requirements, and all even user stories.
(00:21):
It asks the question, what job is the customer actually hiring
this product or service to do? Now this is not just a theory.
Whether your requirements gathering or shaping strategy or
improving process, the JTVDB jobs to be done framework will
(00:45):
sharpen your analysis and help you design solutions that truly
hit the mark. The Better Business Analysis
Institute presence, the Better Business Analysis podcast with
Kingsman Walsh. Back, everyone, that's right.
(01:05):
We're going to be talking about Jobs to Be Done.
Specifically, I'm going to give you 10 lessons from the Jobs to
be Done framework. If you don't know about the Jobs
to be Done framework, it's something that's come out of
product management and it reallyfocuses on the customer journey
or a specific task actually thatyou're hiring the product or
(01:26):
service to do. It's a weird term hiring, but
it's around the fact that it hasa job to be done.
And hence we use the word hiring.
I like to think about it as one part of the customer journey
where they are driving the process to a goal, right?
So I'll give you an example might be getting to work in the
(01:48):
morning. It's one specific process that
they do end to end. So let's dive in #1 is that
customers don't buy products, they hire them.
People don't buy a drill becausethey want a drill, they buy it
because they want to put a hole in the wall.
(02:09):
This is the fundamental jobs to be done.
Shift focus on the outcome and not the product in workshops
asked what are stakeholders really trying to achieve here?
Not just what system do they want?
And we know that from the BA world, but this is also looking
(02:29):
at it from a product point of view.
When you're stuck in that mindset and looking at features.
Number 2 is that every job has afunctional and emotional side.
It's not just about the task, it's about the emotions that
that task relate to. So if you take a gym membership,
(02:51):
right, it isn't about fitness, it's about belonging and
confidence and sometimes even status.
And one of the case studies we use here at the Better Business
Analysis Institute, Fitnation, which is about a gym staff
thought members wanted more machines, but members were
really hiring the gym to feel supported and motivated.
(03:16):
You need to probe for both functional and emotional drivers
and interviews when you apply the jobs to be done framework.
And she can use tricks like focusing on empathy mapping and
ask how someone feels at those various stages of the process.
(03:37):
And sometimes it's hard, right? So it's, it's not the what
people say, just like requirements gathering or a
recitation. It's you need to peel back the
onion and find out. Well, you know, it's not just
feeling healthy, it's actually feeling confident.
And that's the reason why some most people go to the gym #3 is
that context matters more than demographics.
(03:58):
The jobs to be done focuses on situations and not personas.
In this case, a busy parent and uni student might want to fire
Uber Eats not because of their age or income, because right now
they need real fast, convenient food.
OK, so that's just a way of looking at it.
(04:18):
We're moving away the persona side of it for this particular
Jobs to be done framework. So Uber Eats, for example, maybe
an example of a product that hasa job to be done that it
satisfies. OK.
And that's what we talk about here.
(04:40):
So that's around the fact that it's providing that job to be
done. So it's it's something you're
hiring Uber rates to do, which is get food fast to use
scenarios instead of only personas.
And what is the context driving the need?
Don't get too lost in terms of the fact that they're two
different customer segments wanting the same talk to be done
(05:03):
#4 is that jobs are stable and solutions are temporary.
The job of getting from A to B hasn't changed for centuries,
right? That's horses or trains or cars,
or ride sharing apps. And they're all just different
solutions. So when defining requirements,
(05:23):
separate the enduring job from today's perceived world or
preferred way of doing it, right, You've got to think about
it that way. This avoids being, well, I
guess, designing for the obsolete.
So it's not hiring a job sharingapp to get to the airport that's
limiting it. It's literally getting to the
(05:44):
airport #5 is uncovering the struggle where the gold lives.
People don't switch products when they're happy.
They also don't switch product all the time when they're
unhappy. And it depends on the fraction
of the move. They switch when they're really
(06:05):
struggling, right? So you need to find the friction
in their current situation and there you'll find the
opportunity. So if you launch an app, right,
and you fill in your details about your aging, your weight to
fitness app, it's safe. And then you monitor and you
(06:27):
enter all your details about what you ate every day and then
every day you have to enter the same information again, that
could provide friction, right? People might not want to adopt
that because it might frustrate you about the way you have to do
it. You have to enter the same
information again and again. Another app comes along, you
(06:48):
enter what you commonly eat every day once and it populates
all that. That is a friction gap.
OK, so the gold is in terms of watching what a user does today.
Now that's an example where you've built a new app, but you
can just look to the world in terms of what are the jobs or
what are people trying to get done and they die.
And what is the friction gettingto work, not getting wet on the
(07:10):
way to work, you know, simply using public transport and then
improving it. So if you were the provider of
public transport, you could say,well, you know, having to have
money and change, it may be easier just to tap on and off to
get to where you want to be. So that's the goal number six is
that jobs compete across industries.
(07:35):
Your competitor isn't who you think.
A cinema isn't just competing with other cinemas, it's
competing with Netflix, gaming, even dining with friends.
You need to map your job competitors broadly, not just
within your industry. Because in all those cases, it's
(07:56):
providing entertainment, right? It's, it could be more than just
watching a show, but it's a really interesting way of
looking at it when you're launching your own product #7 is
to break jobs into steps. The jobs have stages defining
the job, finding options, preparing, executing, and
(08:18):
reviewing right. The job of cooking dinner
includes planning the meals, shopping, prepping, cooking,
eating, and cleaning up. And Uber Eats actually disrupts
several of those stages. So you use user journey mapping
or customer journey mapping to see where the solution adds or
(08:41):
removes friction. So you're starting to get the
idea now #8 is to pay attention to non consumption.
Sometimes the biggest opportunity isn't stealing
customers from rivals, but serving people.
Do the job at all, right. So I'll give an example.
(09:05):
So a gym company, Fit Nation, realizes that people weren't
joining gyms at all, not theirs,anyone else's, because they felt
intimidated. But if you design A load barrier
digital platform, you may capture that group who want the
same outcomes that a gym provides, but they're just not
(09:26):
comfortable going into the gym. So you need to ask the question,
who isn't doing this job today and maybe why not?
And that might be able to createa whole new market #9 is that
jobs are measurable. So outcomes can and should be
quantified. If the job is getting to work on
(09:50):
time, then reliability, speed and predictability and metrics.
But a friend of mine who keeps sending me screenshots of when a
train is late because he's frustrated about the public
transport system here in Wellington.
And that's an example of it's not reliable, it's not
predictable, it takes a while, it can break down and there's
(10:10):
obviously the job of getting to work on the train in Wellington
should be a lot easier than it is. the BA tip is to tie
requirements and success criteria back to the job
outcomes, not just the features delivered.
So that might in this example might go the experience.
The training experience was fantastic.
People thought the price was OK.You know, they thought the the
(10:34):
trains were clean. It was like, well, the main KPI
years, did someone get to whether they needed to be on
time? Was it reliable and consistent?
No #10 is that great? BAS become translators of these
jobs. At the end of the day, our role
is to translate business and customer jobs into solutions
(10:57):
that deliver real value. If you master this lens, it's a
different lens. You're not just capturing
requirements, you're helping shape strategy.
So use the job to be done framework as a standing question
in your tool kit. What job is this requirement
feature or process step really doing?
(11:20):
It's a really good way of dipping into the product
management world and thinking about it that way and really
linking requirements back to that customer journey.
So there you have it, my top tenlessons from the Jobs to be Done
framework. Remember, customers don't care
about your system, your product,or your shiny features.
(11:43):
They care about getting their job done, care about getting
their job done simply, quickly and in a way that makes sense to
them and has a positive emotional experience.
As a business analyst and changeleaders, our power is seeing
through the noise and getting tothe real job at hand.
(12:04):
Thanks for listening. Be a better BA and I'll see you
next week.
There are quite a few good tips and tricks that I've learned
from studying product management, and today we're
diving into Jobs to Be Done, a way of looking at a customer and
business needs. It goes far beyond features,
requirements, and all even user stories.
(00:21):
It asks the question, what job is the customer actually hiring
this product or service to do? Now this is not just a theory.
Whether your requirements gathering or shaping strategy or
improving process, the JTVDB jobs to be done framework will
(00:45):
sharpen your analysis and help you design solutions that truly
hit the mark. The Better Business Analysis
Institute presence, the Better Business Analysis podcast with
Kingsman Walsh. Back, everyone, that's right.
(01:05):
We're going to be talking about Jobs to Be Done.
Specifically, I'm going to give you 10 lessons from the Jobs to
be Done framework. If you don't know about the Jobs
to be Done framework, it's something that's come out of
product management and it reallyfocuses on the customer journey
or a specific task actually thatyou're hiring the product or
(01:26):
service to do. It's a weird term hiring, but
it's around the fact that it hasa job to be done.
And hence we use the word hiring.
I like to think about it as one part of the customer journey
where they are driving the process to a goal, right?
So I'll give you an example might be getting to work in the
(01:48):
morning. It's one specific process that
they do end to end. So let's dive in #1 is that
customers don't buy products, they hire them.
People don't buy a drill becausethey want a drill, they buy it
because they want to put a hole in the wall.
(02:09):
This is the fundamental jobs to be done.
Shift focus on the outcome and not the product in workshops
asked what are stakeholders really trying to achieve here?
Not just what system do they want?
And we know that from the BA world, but this is also looking
(02:29):
at it from a product point of view.
When you're stuck in that mindset and looking at features.
Number 2 is that every job has afunctional and emotional side.
It's not just about the task, it's about the emotions that
that task relate to. So if you take a gym membership,
(02:51):
right, it isn't about fitness, it's about belonging and
confidence and sometimes even status.
And one of the case studies we use here at the Better Business
Analysis Institute, Fitnation, which is about a gym staff
thought members wanted more machines, but members were
really hiring the gym to feel supported and motivated.
(03:16):
You need to probe for both functional and emotional drivers
and interviews when you apply the jobs to be done framework.
And she can use tricks like focusing on empathy mapping and
ask how someone feels at those various stages of the process.
(03:37):
And sometimes it's hard, right? So it's, it's not the what
people say, just like requirements gathering or a
recitation. It's you need to peel back the
onion and find out. Well, you know, it's not just
feeling healthy, it's actually feeling confident.
And that's the reason why some most people go to the gym #3 is
that context matters more than demographics.
(03:58):
The jobs to be done focuses on situations and not personas.
In this case, a busy parent and uni student might want to fire
Uber Eats not because of their age or income, because right now
they need real fast, convenient food.
OK, so that's just a way of looking at it.
(04:18):
We're moving away the persona side of it for this particular
Jobs to be done framework. So Uber Eats, for example, maybe
an example of a product that hasa job to be done that it
satisfies. OK.
And that's what we talk about here.
(04:40):
So that's around the fact that it's providing that job to be
done. So it's it's something you're
hiring Uber rates to do, which is get food fast to use
scenarios instead of only personas.
And what is the context driving the need?
Don't get too lost in terms of the fact that they're two
different customer segments wanting the same talk to be done
(05:03):
#4 is that jobs are stable and solutions are temporary.
The job of getting from A to B hasn't changed for centuries,
right? That's horses or trains or cars,
or ride sharing apps. And they're all just different
solutions. So when defining requirements,
(05:23):
separate the enduring job from today's perceived world or
preferred way of doing it, right, You've got to think about
it that way. This avoids being, well, I
guess, designing for the obsolete.
So it's not hiring a job sharingapp to get to the airport that's
limiting it. It's literally getting to the
(05:44):
airport #5 is uncovering the struggle where the gold lives.
People don't switch products when they're happy.
They also don't switch product all the time when they're
unhappy. And it depends on the fraction
of the move. They switch when they're really
(06:05):
struggling, right? So you need to find the friction
in their current situation and there you'll find the
opportunity. So if you launch an app, right,
and you fill in your details about your aging, your weight to
fitness app, it's safe. And then you monitor and you
(06:27):
enter all your details about what you ate every day and then
every day you have to enter the same information again, that
could provide friction, right? People might not want to adopt
that because it might frustrate you about the way you have to do
it. You have to enter the same
information again and again. Another app comes along, you
(06:48):
enter what you commonly eat every day once and it populates
all that. That is a friction gap.
OK, so the gold is in terms of watching what a user does today.
Now that's an example where you've built a new app, but you
can just look to the world in terms of what are the jobs or
what are people trying to get done and they die.
And what is the friction gettingto work, not getting wet on the
(07:10):
way to work, you know, simply using public transport and then
improving it. So if you were the provider of
public transport, you could say,well, you know, having to have
money and change, it may be easier just to tap on and off to
get to where you want to be. So that's the goal number six is
that jobs compete across industries.
(07:35):
Your competitor isn't who you think.
A cinema isn't just competing with other cinemas, it's
competing with Netflix, gaming, even dining with friends.
You need to map your job competitors broadly, not just
within your industry. Because in all those cases, it's
(07:56):
providing entertainment, right? It's, it could be more than just
watching a show, but it's a really interesting way of
looking at it when you're launching your own product #7 is
to break jobs into steps. The jobs have stages defining
the job, finding options, preparing, executing, and
(08:18):
reviewing right. The job of cooking dinner
includes planning the meals, shopping, prepping, cooking,
eating, and cleaning up. And Uber Eats actually disrupts
several of those stages. So you use user journey mapping
or customer journey mapping to see where the solution adds or
(08:41):
removes friction. So you're starting to get the
idea now #8 is to pay attention to non consumption.
Sometimes the biggest opportunity isn't stealing
customers from rivals, but serving people.
Do the job at all, right. So I'll give an example.
(09:05):
So a gym company, Fit Nation, realizes that people weren't
joining gyms at all, not theirs,anyone else's, because they felt
intimidated. But if you design A load barrier
digital platform, you may capture that group who want the
same outcomes that a gym provides, but they're just not
(09:26):
comfortable going into the gym. So you need to ask the question,
who isn't doing this job today and maybe why not?
And that might be able to createa whole new market #9 is that
jobs are measurable. So outcomes can and should be
quantified. If the job is getting to work on
(09:50):
time, then reliability, speed and predictability and metrics.
But a friend of mine who keeps sending me screenshots of when a
train is late because he's frustrated about the public
transport system here in Wellington.
And that's an example of it's not reliable, it's not
predictable, it takes a while, it can break down and there's
(10:10):
obviously the job of getting to work on the train in Wellington
should be a lot easier than it is. the BA tip is to tie
requirements and success criteria back to the job
outcomes, not just the features delivered.
So that might in this example might go the experience.
The training experience was fantastic.
People thought the price was OK.You know, they thought the the
(10:34):
trains were clean. It was like, well, the main KPI
years, did someone get to whether they needed to be on
time? Was it reliable and consistent?
No #10 is that great? BAS become translators of these
jobs. At the end of the day, our role
is to translate business and customer jobs into solutions
(10:57):
that deliver real value. If you master this lens, it's a
different lens. You're not just capturing
requirements, you're helping shape strategy.
So use the job to be done framework as a standing question
in your tool kit. What job is this requirement
feature or process step really doing?
(11:20):
It's a really good way of dipping into the product
management world and thinking about it that way and really
linking requirements back to that customer journey.
So there you have it, my top tenlessons from the Jobs to be Done
framework. Remember, customers don't care
about your system, your product,or your shiny features.
(11:43):
They care about getting their job done, care about getting
their job done simply, quickly and in a way that makes sense to
them and has a positive emotional experience.
As a business analyst and changeleaders, our power is seeing
through the noise and getting tothe real job at hand.
(12:04):
Thanks for listening. Be a better BA and I'll see you
next week.
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