April 14, 2025 • 25 mins
Katherine Martín-Fisher welcomes Peter Bray to explore his career evolution and the transformative power of storytelling in business. They discuss the essence of business storytelling, focusing on client transformations and overcoming challenges. Peter shares client success stories and insights on engaging with his services. The conversation delves into leveraging AI for effective storytelling and identifying target audiences, highlighting Peter's ideal clients. They also discuss enhancing digital presence through website development. The episode wraps up with key takeaways, final tips, and encourages listener engagement with Peter's insights.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:02):
I am Catherine Martin Fisher, and I helpbusiness owners who have lost their vision
because they're struggling with cash flow,sales, marketing, which also affects their
company culture by showing them to implementproven systems that increase their revenue by
30% in ninety days.
And this allowing them to reignite the passionand that big dream that they started with.
(00:28):
So the reason that I started this podcast wasto celebrate businesses who have overcome
adversity and have come out on the other sideof it.
And I want you to know that you are not alone.
Good afternoon.
This is Catherine, your host with the BeyondBusiness podcast.
Excited to share Peter Bray with you heretoday.
(00:52):
He is a former professional stage actor turnedstory driven marketing consultant.
He helps clients get more dream customers bygetting themselves out there at scale through
fun marketing channels.
Welcome.
Welcome.
Welcome.
Nice to have you, Peter.
Thanks so much for having me on the show,Catherine.
(01:12):
Very excited to talk about how storytellingshould be a very simple way of getting more
clients and customers, which is what it shouldall be about.
So you were an actor.
Just just give me a a little idea of how thisall came about from being actor turned
marketing consultant.
Yeah.
So this all came about when I was aprofessional Shakespeare actor.
(01:37):
That was my specialist in doing classicalacting.
And in between acting jobs, I just wanted tofind a way that I could make ends meet,
basically, because, even doing well as atheater actor, you have you you really struggle
to to make ends meet in between the jobs.
So what I did is set up little micro businessoffers, and I came across, the big challenge,
(02:01):
which was I didn't know how to get clients andcustomers.
And I I had to go right out of my comfort zoneto figure that out fast.
So after that, I kind of that led me on ajourney to becoming a direct response
copywriter.
And when I combined that with my superpowerfrom my entertainment storytelling career to
use stories and storytelling to, createmarketing funnels and sales funnels that are
(02:26):
are really good fun.
That's when things took off.
Wow.
Well, tell me so so just share with us a momentwhere you thought, okay, in this moment,
because of all of this, I have decided this iswhat I'm gonna do.
How did you come up with this being one ofthose things that you were gonna start doing?
So I think if I was gonna define the one momentwhere I really felt like this is what I've
(02:51):
decided to do, it would be when I was helpingclient who was really struggling.
They did something amazing for their clientsand customers.
They did something transformational.
They're a communication coach, and theirclients loved them.
It was transformational.
But they didn't know how to communicate thatand to get themselves out there on other
(03:12):
channels.
And so when I was able to help them to startsolving that problem, getting them in front of
thousands of potential new clients andcustomers with a story that was really having
an impact on on that market, it felt so goodand meaningful for me that I was like, this is
this is what I wanna do.
(03:33):
Do.
So how do you help people to storytell?
Tell me a little bit about how they start howdo they start their journey with you for you to
know that you can help them impact theirstorytelling?
I'd say the number one most important thingthat I get my clients to understand first when
working with me to actually use storytelling toget clients and customers, it is the golden
(03:58):
rule, which is that all storytelling is great,but we first need to figure out your
transformation story.
Everyone's heard of transformation story, butwhat I do differently is I say there's a golden
rule is that framework.
I help these people to go from this problem tothis solution.
You don't fill those blanks in when you workwith me using your own words and your own
(04:20):
assumptions.
I won't fill those blanks in with my words andmy assumptions.
I'm not a copywriter that does things to makewords sound good.
We fill in that those blanks, and we tell thatstory only using the words and the language of
your dream customers and clients and thelanguage that they use to talk about their
problems and their dreams and their goals.
(04:42):
And that is what brings your your marketing,your messaging, your stories to life.
It's that number one story.
The language that you use to tell to talk aboutthe transformation.
Only using the words of the people who you canmost help.
Do you find that a lot of people in businessare not able to articulate what it is that
(05:04):
their story is about?
Do you I mean, because I I feel that that's alot of times is the confusion.
Because you you're really good at what you do,and you may have this amazing product, but
you're not able to actually get that out intothe marketplace because there's confusion as to
how as to the how.
That's exactly it.
(05:24):
There's confusion as to what actually is mystory.
Is it my origin story?
How far back do I go?
Do I talk about the interesting bits?
Do I talk about the surprising bits?
How what is my story?
How do I use my story to actually communicatehow I can help the people who I can most help?
And that's a that's a very common problem.
(05:46):
That's the reason that I went from being acopywriter who takes orders and just writes
what my clients ask me to write to saying, no.
No.
We need to go further back.
We need to take a step back.
I need to coach you to get you to understandcertain things.
And then I need to coach you and come on ajourney with you, a process of actually finding
out what your story needs to look like andneeds to sound like from the people who it most
(06:11):
needs to resonate with in the market.
So that that's exactly what the transformationis.
That's beautiful.
Can you share with us, have you along yourjourney, and I ask a lot of coaches this, did
you ever have a coach or a mentor or someonewho helped you along your journey to be able to
get to that place where you're like, you knowwhat?
I can help others do that too.
(06:31):
Yeah.
I one of my most important business mentorshelped me to do this exact thing because as as,
you know, I'm sure most coaches would agree,one of the most difficult things is drinking
your own medicine where you're the expert.
But because you are the expert, you're tooclose to what you do.
You're too close to how you help people.
(06:53):
You know all the mechanisms and the expertisebehind it.
But, actually, it took a business mentor tohelp me take a step back to have the discipline
to go, no.
We're gonna go through this process.
We're gonna find out what the language, whatthe story needs to be from my market by doing
these things.
And then I'm gonna have the discipline to putmyself to one side and say, they know better
(07:17):
than me what their world looks like at thepoint where they most need my help.
And so that's what the the most importantbusiness mentor did for me because it takes an
outside eye to help you know what the storyneeds to be and what the language needs to be
to tell that story.
Love that.
So can you give me an example of a client?
(07:38):
Because this, this is another thing is so manytimes we're working with a client and then it's
so exciting when you have a client in front ofyou and you see a light bulb, just just shine
through, all of a sudden, it's like, got it.
I just got that.
If you can share an example and, you know,don't give us the name of the client, just
share an example.
My favorite story about a client where they hada penny drop moment where they understood, so
(08:05):
this is the story.
This is how I communicate what I do to peoplein a way that's gonna resonate with them was
she did, amazing work with with her clients.
Obviously, that's a point that's a point ofnecessity for me to work with someone.
And had no idea how to really talk about that.
And so went through a whole process, but thepenny dropped when I organized and lined up all
(08:31):
of the all of the language that we collected,and put into bold, a phrase that repeated over
and over and over and over again.
Pain point that her customers, who she hadhelped in the past had in common.
And that was something she'd had all of thatlanguage in front of her for months, if not
(08:53):
years, but had never gone through a process toactually organize it and extract it so she
could see, oh my goodness.
That is what that's what it is.
That's that's what I need to say when I'mtalking about how I help people.
And that is what's gonna resonate.
And it's completely transformed everything.
Her sales page on her website, how she goes outinto the market, the story that she tells to
(09:15):
kind of get people who have got audiences withher dream clients in to actually say, can I
introduce you to my audience?
So that's my favorite client story because itwas so exciting to watch her face change when I
when I said, have you noticed this?
This is really something that we've found hereafter weeks of going through a process.
So I would say that you help your client tobuild that confidence in through their
(09:41):
storytelling because that that's the moment.
Right?
When you're able to just really articulateexactly what you do and why you do it and how
you do it, but just through that storytelling.
So so with that, do you have do you have, alongyour journey because this is the Beyond
Business Podcast, and there are lots ofbusiness owners that start with a dream in
(10:01):
their heart.
And they know I you know, like, they they justquickly go into overwhelm and they suffer from
cash flow, sales, marketing, which then affectstheir company culture.
And so we would like to just, you know, letthem know there are people out there that have
had setbacks.
So tell me along your journey, have you had anysetbacks?
Yeah.
(10:21):
I've had big setbacks.
It makes me immediately think of a specificmoment in time where I was trying to build a
business offer, but couldn't get anywhere withit.
Didn't know how to get over that threshold offinding the words that would make people go,
oh, right.
That's for me.
You're talking to me.
(10:42):
That's the thing that I need from you.
And I had to really go out of my comfort zoneto build an email list and then kind of eat
humble pie and send people emails and say,look.
I'd really like to help, but I need tounderstand really what what, like, what your
(11:06):
challenges looks like.
And that actually have to facilitate thoseconversations from the ground up and collect
them and then respond to people and dig alittle deeper and go through that process.
But until I did that, I was completelyfloundering because, you know, nothing you do
has has any impact.
It can be very it can be very disheartening.
(11:27):
So you you feel like you're not gettinganywhere.
You feel like what you do has no value.
So it it it can really kind of puncture yourtires when you are trying over and over and
over again, posting on social media, reachingout to people, trying to prospect, trying to
talk to clients, and you feel like you'retalking a different language.
And I've been in that situation.
(11:48):
And it wasn't till I kind of had the humilitybomb to say, right.
Okay.
I'm starting from scratch.
I'm gonna put my ego to one side and say, Iknow I'm the expert, but I'm not the expert on
how my customers need to hear words coming fromme, either what I'm speaking or what's written
down, in order for them to go get it.
(12:09):
This is for me.
This is finally the thing that I've beenlooking for.
I just didn't ever hear it in this languagebefore.
So what does it look like if somebody isthinking, you know, maybe I'm not telling my
story.
Maybe I'm not, maybe I don't have that right.
And I I'm just love somebody to show me theway.
(12:29):
What would it look like for a client that wouldstart with you or just, you know, like, do you
have a way in which to do a, what do you callit, a discovery call or, you know, how how do
you do that?
Yeah.
So I like doing a story audit to get on a callwith someone and say, well, let's figure out
(12:50):
where where you what what story you're telling.
A lot of people say, well, I haven't even gotthat far because I've consumed so much content
about storytelling.
I bought products about storytelling, but everytime I sit down, it feels weirdly complicated
and intangible.
And that's because I think you need to startoff with this one most important transformation
(13:10):
story and find the language from your dreamclients and customers.
So I sit down with people and say, talk to meabout where you're at, and let's let's have a
look at what you're what you're saying or whatthe response is, and then figure out the next
simplest step.
Often, there's something that you can do infive minutes that will give you the language
that you can go to paint and to try a new storyand and start testing it and see if see if
(13:36):
that's the the language that was gonna bringyour message to life.
Are you utilizing AI for any of this platformin which you help your your clients with?
I really like using AI for certain parts of thestorytelling process.
And my favorite, favorite, favorite way to useit is actually in doing the boring work, which
(13:57):
is trawling through.
I love working with clients who've got who'vewho've worked with loads of other clients, and
they've got loads of reviews, loads oftestimonials, lots of kind of call scripts,
consult consultancy conversations.
And they just need someone to go through it alland to pick out the right bits and put them all
together to look for patterns.
AI.
AI is the way to do that.
(14:17):
It's a wonderful research assistant that willcomb through and find verbatim for you the kind
of gold that you're already sitting on that'sjust gonna take you too long to go through
manually yourself to pull it all out.
Can you give me an example of maybe somethingthat when as you're working with a client that
(14:39):
they don't know that they don't know?
Is there something that they don't know thatthey don't know?
Yeah.
Something that my clients, when I'm workingwith them, don't know that they don't know, but
it's gonna make the biggest difference oncethey understand it, is that your the story that
you are telling to your clients is so powerfulthat you need to be aiming it specifically.
(15:03):
So here's what that means.
I had a client who I worked with who wasinterested in helping people who are really
struggling financially.
The problem was she wasn't able to actuallywork with them because they couldn't commit
financially to get her help.
So we had to adjust and find, okay, wherespecifically do we need to aim your story so
(15:26):
it's gonna resonate with people who are in aposition to be able to actually commit to
working with you?
Because that's the that's the point.
That's where they're gonna experience the mostbeneficial impact and transformation.
That's where everyone's, you know, saying, yay.
You really helped me.
You get testimonials.
They get to have a transformation.
Until she can afford to fund scholarship placesfor how she helps people, she can't aim her
(15:50):
story at people who aren't in a position toactually get her help.
So yeah.
That is amazing.
That's awesome.
So how so tell me a little bit about how youlearned how to story tell.
Now you were an actor.
So how did you learn that and were able toactually come up with a, a system for others?
(16:13):
So I learned storytelling through portfoliocareer.
I had one foot in entertainment storytellingworld, Shakespeare actor going around the world
and around the country in The UK doing a lot ofShakespeare tours in front of thousands and
thousands of people live and was obsessed withthe craft of storytelling.
(16:35):
Read all the books, did all of that stuff.
And then when a copywriter at first and then amarketing consultant and coach, What struck me
is that it's a completely different thing ifyou wanna use stories to get clients and
customers, and it's overcomplicated.
So I had to relearn how to tell story how totell stories for that purpose.
(16:57):
And the main thing being all of thestorytelling craft is wonderful.
It's fantastic.
All the origin stories, case study stories,anecdotes, trust building stories, objection
handling stories.
There's infinite stories.
I love them all.
But my rule is that you put them all to oneside until you figure that they're all
(17:18):
subordinate to this one prime story, thetransformation story with, specifically, the
language of your dream customers and clientsand what they use to talk about the
transformation that they are desperate toexperience and are ready to commit to.
So I had to relearn storytelling from theentertainment industry's point of view to being
(17:40):
the simple communication stories point of view.
So if I were someone who was looking for helpin in my storytelling, in my messaging, why
would I choose you?
Well, that's a good question.
So I think people choose me because I have thebackground as a professional storyteller.
(18:00):
So I've kind of got a bit overkill.
I was flown around the world, went and taughtstorytelling as an expert all around.
Lots of the colleges in The USA have taughtstorytelling as an actor and workshop
practitioner in Shakespeare's Globe.
Oxford University shaped military schools inEurope.
(18:21):
And what it comes down to is if you understandthat everyone has the ability to deconstruct
stories when they know what the outcome of thatstory's purpose is, then but all of these
skills then come into play.
But I've gone through I've walked the walk anddone I've made the mistakes.
I've used the wrong stories when trying tofigure out how to be a marketer until I have a
(18:45):
system that now combines the thread of myexpert entertainment storytelling knowledge
with a lot of experience working for digitalagencies with private clients as a copywriter
and a marketing consultant where my paycheckwas dependent on actually being able to use
(19:06):
storytelling to get clients and customers formy clients and customers.
So who would be your ideal client?
My ideal client is a coach who does wonderfulwork.
Their heart and soul is in providing aextraordinary life changing transformation for
their clients.
They've done it bunch of times in the past.
(19:27):
They get clients through word-of-mouth andthrough one to one networking because in
conversation, when they talk about things andpeople ask questions, there's a back and forth,
people get it.
They go, oh my goodness.
Wow.
That's amazing.
But they just don't know how to take all ofthat and communicate it simply in a way that
means that they can get themselves out there atscale digitally in front of new audiences and
(19:49):
new channels.
Those people, I absolutely love working withbecause we can get results really fast and the
results are very exciting.
That's exciting.
I would love to know how would our audiencelet's say you're you know, do you work with
startups or do you work with mostly peoplewho've already been in business for a while?
(20:09):
I like working with people who've already beenin business for a while just because they have
more stories to draw on, and we can find thislanguage really nice and quickly.
And then how would they find you?
How would they do business with you?
What are the ways in which they could do that?
One of the easiest, simplest ways to do that isto go to Peter Bray marketing dot com.
(20:29):
I have a free course that's gonna help you getset up with a step by step process of finding
your first transformational story with theactual right language that's gonna resonate
with the right people.
And you can use that.
And it's got some some extra bonus stuff inthere to help you get the the ball rolling.
That'll give you my email address, which ispeter@peterbraemarketing.com.
(20:52):
And you can just tell me where you're at.
You can tell me your story about what you'retrying to do, what you've tried in the past,
and, we can go from there.
You can also find me on LinkedIn as Peter Bray.
So whenever a client starts with you, wouldthey be working directly with you, or is there
a team that they would work with, which wouldbe how would they work with you?
Directly with me, one to one.
(21:13):
We sit down on calls and we talk and I sethomework.
I diagnose where you're at.
We do a little analysis and figure out what'sthe next step.
What's the the next challenge that we need tosolve?
What's the next big win that we can get?
And, I set you homework about what I need youto do in order to make the fastest progress in
(21:35):
getting there.
There's some stages of of the process that Ithen take, and I go home, and I do the
homework.
So I might create you a new sales page, landingpage.
I might write you some new outreach that willhelp you get in front of new big audiences of
dream prospects instead of having to go throughone to one word-of-mouth.
(21:55):
And, yeah, I love it's like a boutiqueboutique, very plugged in service that you
you're working directly with me.
So what if you are somebody who has a website,or has landing pages?
So then what you're doing is you're actuallyhelping them to clean that up or develop a
whole new one.
(22:16):
Well, it depends on what we find in the audit.
So sometimes it's working good enough so thatall it needs is a bit of tweaking, a bit of,
testing with some new language, the stuffthat's gonna really sing and speak to the
hearts and minds of what your dream clients andcustomers really want.
And other times, people just need to start fromscratch, and they know that.
(22:39):
A lot of the time, people clients are like, Ihate my website.
It stresses me out every time I look at it.
Makes me feel guilty because I know it's notdoing me justice.
It's not There are people who are landing onthere who I could help but are just clicking
away because it's not it's not doing justice towhat I actually would do if we work together.
Right.
Right.
And that that's just excellent.
(23:00):
Thank you so much.
You know, Peter, thank you for some nuggets.
I would love for you to share with ouraudience.
If there were anything that you would want toleave them with, what would that be?
If anyone listening wants to get their firstversion of their story straight, then here's
something you can do in five minutes.
You jump onto your past reviews, testimonialsthat are written down, and you go through and
(23:24):
you go in bold and highlight not things wherethey say nice things about you.
You highlight any language and phrases andwords that they use to describe where they were
before you worked with them and where they arenow after working with you.
So that is gonna give you some very rapidinsight into the language that your clients and
(23:47):
customers really use when they're talking aboutthe problem that you've helped them with in the
past.
That's something you can do five minutes, andit may surprise you.
It often surprises my clients about things thatyou've been seeing every day, but I've never
really joined the dots of, okay, I could justcopy and paste that language and use that.
And that's gonna speak to at least these peoplewho I who I worked with and who loved what I
(24:11):
did for them and got huge value and impact.
Wow.
That is actually is a great nugget to leave ouraudience with.
Thank you so much.
So, Peter, I just thank you for, you know, justoffering all of this information.
And, again, there they would be looking up,Peter Bray on, LinkedIn or going to your
website.
Correct?
(24:31):
And that will be in the show notes as well.
That's correct.
Thank you so much, Catherine.
It's a real pleasure talking to you.
Such a pleasure having you with us here today.
Thank you.
You have a wonderful day.
And again, thank you to our audience for justspending this time with us here today and
listening to all of the nuggets that Peter Brayhad for us.
(24:51):
We are so grateful.
And, again, this is Catherine, your host withthe Beyond Business podcast.
Have a wonderful day, everyone.
Well, if you made it to this point, then youmade it to the end, and you are my star.
And I just wanna thank you from the bottom ofmy heart.
I hope that you enjoyed the conversation withtoday's guest.
(25:13):
And if you did, please leave us a review onApple Podcasts and Spotify, and share this
episode with others who may be interested inthis topic.
Also, please feel free to let us know whattopics you'd like to see covered in future
episodes.
Get in touch in the comments or in RocketGrowth social media platforms.
(25:35):
To have conversations with me, my booking linkis in the comments.
See you next week for all for a all newepisode.
I am Catherine Martin Fisher, and I helpbusiness owners who have lost their vision
because they're struggling with cash flow,sales, marketing, which also affects their
company culture by showing them to implementproven systems that increase their revenue by
30% in ninety days.
And this allowing them to reignite the passionand that big dream that they started with.
(00:28):
So the reason that I started this podcast wasto celebrate businesses who have overcome
adversity and have come out on the other sideof it.
And I want you to know that you are not alone.
Good afternoon.
This is Catherine, your host with the BeyondBusiness podcast.
Excited to share Peter Bray with you heretoday.
(00:52):
He is a former professional stage actor turnedstory driven marketing consultant.
He helps clients get more dream customers bygetting themselves out there at scale through
fun marketing channels.
Welcome.
Welcome.
Welcome.
Nice to have you, Peter.
Thanks so much for having me on the show,Catherine.
(01:12):
Very excited to talk about how storytellingshould be a very simple way of getting more
clients and customers, which is what it shouldall be about.
So you were an actor.
Just just give me a a little idea of how thisall came about from being actor turned
marketing consultant.
Yeah.
So this all came about when I was aprofessional Shakespeare actor.
(01:37):
That was my specialist in doing classicalacting.
And in between acting jobs, I just wanted tofind a way that I could make ends meet,
basically, because, even doing well as atheater actor, you have you you really struggle
to to make ends meet in between the jobs.
So what I did is set up little micro businessoffers, and I came across, the big challenge,
(02:01):
which was I didn't know how to get clients andcustomers.
And I I had to go right out of my comfort zoneto figure that out fast.
So after that, I kind of that led me on ajourney to becoming a direct response
copywriter.
And when I combined that with my superpowerfrom my entertainment storytelling career to
use stories and storytelling to, createmarketing funnels and sales funnels that are
(02:26):
are really good fun.
That's when things took off.
Wow.
Well, tell me so so just share with us a momentwhere you thought, okay, in this moment,
because of all of this, I have decided this iswhat I'm gonna do.
How did you come up with this being one ofthose things that you were gonna start doing?
So I think if I was gonna define the one momentwhere I really felt like this is what I've
(02:51):
decided to do, it would be when I was helpingclient who was really struggling.
They did something amazing for their clientsand customers.
They did something transformational.
They're a communication coach, and theirclients loved them.
It was transformational.
But they didn't know how to communicate thatand to get themselves out there on other
(03:12):
channels.
And so when I was able to help them to startsolving that problem, getting them in front of
thousands of potential new clients andcustomers with a story that was really having
an impact on on that market, it felt so goodand meaningful for me that I was like, this is
this is what I wanna do.
(03:33):
Do.
So how do you help people to storytell?
Tell me a little bit about how they start howdo they start their journey with you for you to
know that you can help them impact theirstorytelling?
I'd say the number one most important thingthat I get my clients to understand first when
working with me to actually use storytelling toget clients and customers, it is the golden
(03:58):
rule, which is that all storytelling is great,but we first need to figure out your
transformation story.
Everyone's heard of transformation story, butwhat I do differently is I say there's a golden
rule is that framework.
I help these people to go from this problem tothis solution.
You don't fill those blanks in when you workwith me using your own words and your own
(04:20):
assumptions.
I won't fill those blanks in with my words andmy assumptions.
I'm not a copywriter that does things to makewords sound good.
We fill in that those blanks, and we tell thatstory only using the words and the language of
your dream customers and clients and thelanguage that they use to talk about their
problems and their dreams and their goals.
(04:42):
And that is what brings your your marketing,your messaging, your stories to life.
It's that number one story.
The language that you use to tell to talk aboutthe transformation.
Only using the words of the people who you canmost help.
Do you find that a lot of people in businessare not able to articulate what it is that
(05:04):
their story is about?
Do you I mean, because I I feel that that's alot of times is the confusion.
Because you you're really good at what you do,and you may have this amazing product, but
you're not able to actually get that out intothe marketplace because there's confusion as to
how as to the how.
That's exactly it.
(05:24):
There's confusion as to what actually is mystory.
Is it my origin story?
How far back do I go?
Do I talk about the interesting bits?
Do I talk about the surprising bits?
How what is my story?
How do I use my story to actually communicatehow I can help the people who I can most help?
And that's a that's a very common problem.
(05:46):
That's the reason that I went from being acopywriter who takes orders and just writes
what my clients ask me to write to saying, no.
No.
We need to go further back.
We need to take a step back.
I need to coach you to get you to understandcertain things.
And then I need to coach you and come on ajourney with you, a process of actually finding
out what your story needs to look like andneeds to sound like from the people who it most
(06:11):
needs to resonate with in the market.
So that that's exactly what the transformationis.
That's beautiful.
Can you share with us, have you along yourjourney, and I ask a lot of coaches this, did
you ever have a coach or a mentor or someonewho helped you along your journey to be able to
get to that place where you're like, you knowwhat?
I can help others do that too.
(06:31):
Yeah.
I one of my most important business mentorshelped me to do this exact thing because as as,
you know, I'm sure most coaches would agree,one of the most difficult things is drinking
your own medicine where you're the expert.
But because you are the expert, you're tooclose to what you do.
You're too close to how you help people.
(06:53):
You know all the mechanisms and the expertisebehind it.
But, actually, it took a business mentor tohelp me take a step back to have the discipline
to go, no.
We're gonna go through this process.
We're gonna find out what the language, whatthe story needs to be from my market by doing
these things.
And then I'm gonna have the discipline to putmyself to one side and say, they know better
(07:17):
than me what their world looks like at thepoint where they most need my help.
And so that's what the the most importantbusiness mentor did for me because it takes an
outside eye to help you know what the storyneeds to be and what the language needs to be
to tell that story.
Love that.
So can you give me an example of a client?
(07:38):
Because this, this is another thing is so manytimes we're working with a client and then it's
so exciting when you have a client in front ofyou and you see a light bulb, just just shine
through, all of a sudden, it's like, got it.
I just got that.
If you can share an example and, you know,don't give us the name of the client, just
share an example.
My favorite story about a client where they hada penny drop moment where they understood, so
(08:05):
this is the story.
This is how I communicate what I do to peoplein a way that's gonna resonate with them was
she did, amazing work with with her clients.
Obviously, that's a point that's a point ofnecessity for me to work with someone.
And had no idea how to really talk about that.
And so went through a whole process, but thepenny dropped when I organized and lined up all
(08:31):
of the all of the language that we collected,and put into bold, a phrase that repeated over
and over and over and over again.
Pain point that her customers, who she hadhelped in the past had in common.
And that was something she'd had all of thatlanguage in front of her for months, if not
(08:53):
years, but had never gone through a process toactually organize it and extract it so she
could see, oh my goodness.
That is what that's what it is.
That's that's what I need to say when I'mtalking about how I help people.
And that is what's gonna resonate.
And it's completely transformed everything.
Her sales page on her website, how she goes outinto the market, the story that she tells to
(09:15):
kind of get people who have got audiences withher dream clients in to actually say, can I
introduce you to my audience?
So that's my favorite client story because itwas so exciting to watch her face change when I
when I said, have you noticed this?
This is really something that we've found hereafter weeks of going through a process.
So I would say that you help your client tobuild that confidence in through their
(09:41):
storytelling because that that's the moment.
Right?
When you're able to just really articulateexactly what you do and why you do it and how
you do it, but just through that storytelling.
So so with that, do you have do you have, alongyour journey because this is the Beyond
Business Podcast, and there are lots ofbusiness owners that start with a dream in
(10:01):
their heart.
And they know I you know, like, they they justquickly go into overwhelm and they suffer from
cash flow, sales, marketing, which then affectstheir company culture.
And so we would like to just, you know, letthem know there are people out there that have
had setbacks.
So tell me along your journey, have you had anysetbacks?
Yeah.
(10:21):
I've had big setbacks.
It makes me immediately think of a specificmoment in time where I was trying to build a
business offer, but couldn't get anywhere withit.
Didn't know how to get over that threshold offinding the words that would make people go,
oh, right.
That's for me.
You're talking to me.
(10:42):
That's the thing that I need from you.
And I had to really go out of my comfort zoneto build an email list and then kind of eat
humble pie and send people emails and say,look.
I'd really like to help, but I need tounderstand really what what, like, what your
(11:06):
challenges looks like.
And that actually have to facilitate thoseconversations from the ground up and collect
them and then respond to people and dig alittle deeper and go through that process.
But until I did that, I was completelyfloundering because, you know, nothing you do
has has any impact.
It can be very it can be very disheartening.
(11:27):
So you you feel like you're not gettinganywhere.
You feel like what you do has no value.
So it it it can really kind of puncture yourtires when you are trying over and over and
over again, posting on social media, reachingout to people, trying to prospect, trying to
talk to clients, and you feel like you'retalking a different language.
And I've been in that situation.
(11:48):
And it wasn't till I kind of had the humilitybomb to say, right.
Okay.
I'm starting from scratch.
I'm gonna put my ego to one side and say, Iknow I'm the expert, but I'm not the expert on
how my customers need to hear words coming fromme, either what I'm speaking or what's written
down, in order for them to go get it.
(12:09):
This is for me.
This is finally the thing that I've beenlooking for.
I just didn't ever hear it in this languagebefore.
So what does it look like if somebody isthinking, you know, maybe I'm not telling my
story.
Maybe I'm not, maybe I don't have that right.
And I I'm just love somebody to show me theway.
(12:29):
What would it look like for a client that wouldstart with you or just, you know, like, do you
have a way in which to do a, what do you callit, a discovery call or, you know, how how do
you do that?
Yeah.
So I like doing a story audit to get on a callwith someone and say, well, let's figure out
(12:50):
where where you what what story you're telling.
A lot of people say, well, I haven't even gotthat far because I've consumed so much content
about storytelling.
I bought products about storytelling, but everytime I sit down, it feels weirdly complicated
and intangible.
And that's because I think you need to startoff with this one most important transformation
(13:10):
story and find the language from your dreamclients and customers.
So I sit down with people and say, talk to meabout where you're at, and let's let's have a
look at what you're what you're saying or whatthe response is, and then figure out the next
simplest step.
Often, there's something that you can do infive minutes that will give you the language
that you can go to paint and to try a new storyand and start testing it and see if see if
(13:36):
that's the the language that was gonna bringyour message to life.
Are you utilizing AI for any of this platformin which you help your your clients with?
I really like using AI for certain parts of thestorytelling process.
And my favorite, favorite, favorite way to useit is actually in doing the boring work, which
(13:57):
is trawling through.
I love working with clients who've got who'vewho've worked with loads of other clients, and
they've got loads of reviews, loads oftestimonials, lots of kind of call scripts,
consult consultancy conversations.
And they just need someone to go through it alland to pick out the right bits and put them all
together to look for patterns.
AI.
AI is the way to do that.
(14:17):
It's a wonderful research assistant that willcomb through and find verbatim for you the kind
of gold that you're already sitting on that'sjust gonna take you too long to go through
manually yourself to pull it all out.
Can you give me an example of maybe somethingthat when as you're working with a client that
(14:39):
they don't know that they don't know?
Is there something that they don't know thatthey don't know?
Yeah.
Something that my clients, when I'm workingwith them, don't know that they don't know, but
it's gonna make the biggest difference oncethey understand it, is that your the story that
you are telling to your clients is so powerfulthat you need to be aiming it specifically.
(15:03):
So here's what that means.
I had a client who I worked with who wasinterested in helping people who are really
struggling financially.
The problem was she wasn't able to actuallywork with them because they couldn't commit
financially to get her help.
So we had to adjust and find, okay, wherespecifically do we need to aim your story so
(15:26):
it's gonna resonate with people who are in aposition to be able to actually commit to
working with you?
Because that's the that's the point.
That's where they're gonna experience the mostbeneficial impact and transformation.
That's where everyone's, you know, saying, yay.
You really helped me.
You get testimonials.
They get to have a transformation.
Until she can afford to fund scholarship placesfor how she helps people, she can't aim her
(15:50):
story at people who aren't in a position toactually get her help.
So yeah.
That is amazing.
That's awesome.
So how so tell me a little bit about how youlearned how to story tell.
Now you were an actor.
So how did you learn that and were able toactually come up with a, a system for others?
(16:13):
So I learned storytelling through portfoliocareer.
I had one foot in entertainment storytellingworld, Shakespeare actor going around the world
and around the country in The UK doing a lot ofShakespeare tours in front of thousands and
thousands of people live and was obsessed withthe craft of storytelling.
(16:35):
Read all the books, did all of that stuff.
And then when a copywriter at first and then amarketing consultant and coach, What struck me
is that it's a completely different thing ifyou wanna use stories to get clients and
customers, and it's overcomplicated.
So I had to relearn how to tell story how totell stories for that purpose.
(16:57):
And the main thing being all of thestorytelling craft is wonderful.
It's fantastic.
All the origin stories, case study stories,anecdotes, trust building stories, objection
handling stories.
There's infinite stories.
I love them all.
But my rule is that you put them all to oneside until you figure that they're all
(17:18):
subordinate to this one prime story, thetransformation story with, specifically, the
language of your dream customers and clientsand what they use to talk about the
transformation that they are desperate toexperience and are ready to commit to.
So I had to relearn storytelling from theentertainment industry's point of view to being
(17:40):
the simple communication stories point of view.
So if I were someone who was looking for helpin in my storytelling, in my messaging, why
would I choose you?
Well, that's a good question.
So I think people choose me because I have thebackground as a professional storyteller.
(18:00):
So I've kind of got a bit overkill.
I was flown around the world, went and taughtstorytelling as an expert all around.
Lots of the colleges in The USA have taughtstorytelling as an actor and workshop
practitioner in Shakespeare's Globe.
Oxford University shaped military schools inEurope.
(18:21):
And what it comes down to is if you understandthat everyone has the ability to deconstruct
stories when they know what the outcome of thatstory's purpose is, then but all of these
skills then come into play.
But I've gone through I've walked the walk anddone I've made the mistakes.
I've used the wrong stories when trying tofigure out how to be a marketer until I have a
(18:45):
system that now combines the thread of myexpert entertainment storytelling knowledge
with a lot of experience working for digitalagencies with private clients as a copywriter
and a marketing consultant where my paycheckwas dependent on actually being able to use
(19:06):
storytelling to get clients and customers formy clients and customers.
So who would be your ideal client?
My ideal client is a coach who does wonderfulwork.
Their heart and soul is in providing aextraordinary life changing transformation for
their clients.
They've done it bunch of times in the past.
(19:27):
They get clients through word-of-mouth andthrough one to one networking because in
conversation, when they talk about things andpeople ask questions, there's a back and forth,
people get it.
They go, oh my goodness.
Wow.
That's amazing.
But they just don't know how to take all ofthat and communicate it simply in a way that
means that they can get themselves out there atscale digitally in front of new audiences and
(19:49):
new channels.
Those people, I absolutely love working withbecause we can get results really fast and the
results are very exciting.
That's exciting.
I would love to know how would our audiencelet's say you're you know, do you work with
startups or do you work with mostly peoplewho've already been in business for a while?
(20:09):
I like working with people who've already beenin business for a while just because they have
more stories to draw on, and we can find thislanguage really nice and quickly.
And then how would they find you?
How would they do business with you?
What are the ways in which they could do that?
One of the easiest, simplest ways to do that isto go to Peter Bray marketing dot com.
(20:29):
I have a free course that's gonna help you getset up with a step by step process of finding
your first transformational story with theactual right language that's gonna resonate
with the right people.
And you can use that.
And it's got some some extra bonus stuff inthere to help you get the the ball rolling.
That'll give you my email address, which ispeter@peterbraemarketing.com.
(20:52):
And you can just tell me where you're at.
You can tell me your story about what you'retrying to do, what you've tried in the past,
and, we can go from there.
You can also find me on LinkedIn as Peter Bray.
So whenever a client starts with you, wouldthey be working directly with you, or is there
a team that they would work with, which wouldbe how would they work with you?
Directly with me, one to one.
(21:13):
We sit down on calls and we talk and I sethomework.
I diagnose where you're at.
We do a little analysis and figure out what'sthe next step.
What's the the next challenge that we need tosolve?
What's the next big win that we can get?
And, I set you homework about what I need youto do in order to make the fastest progress in
(21:35):
getting there.
There's some stages of of the process that Ithen take, and I go home, and I do the
homework.
So I might create you a new sales page, landingpage.
I might write you some new outreach that willhelp you get in front of new big audiences of
dream prospects instead of having to go throughone to one word-of-mouth.
(21:55):
And, yeah, I love it's like a boutiqueboutique, very plugged in service that you
you're working directly with me.
So what if you are somebody who has a website,or has landing pages?
So then what you're doing is you're actuallyhelping them to clean that up or develop a
whole new one.
(22:16):
Well, it depends on what we find in the audit.
So sometimes it's working good enough so thatall it needs is a bit of tweaking, a bit of,
testing with some new language, the stuffthat's gonna really sing and speak to the
hearts and minds of what your dream clients andcustomers really want.
And other times, people just need to start fromscratch, and they know that.
(22:39):
A lot of the time, people clients are like, Ihate my website.
It stresses me out every time I look at it.
Makes me feel guilty because I know it's notdoing me justice.
It's not There are people who are landing onthere who I could help but are just clicking
away because it's not it's not doing justice towhat I actually would do if we work together.
Right.
Right.
And that that's just excellent.
(23:00):
Thank you so much.
You know, Peter, thank you for some nuggets.
I would love for you to share with ouraudience.
If there were anything that you would want toleave them with, what would that be?
If anyone listening wants to get their firstversion of their story straight, then here's
something you can do in five minutes.
You jump onto your past reviews, testimonialsthat are written down, and you go through and
(23:24):
you go in bold and highlight not things wherethey say nice things about you.
You highlight any language and phrases andwords that they use to describe where they were
before you worked with them and where they arenow after working with you.
So that is gonna give you some very rapidinsight into the language that your clients and
(23:47):
customers really use when they're talking aboutthe problem that you've helped them with in the
past.
That's something you can do five minutes, andit may surprise you.
It often surprises my clients about things thatyou've been seeing every day, but I've never
really joined the dots of, okay, I could justcopy and paste that language and use that.
And that's gonna speak to at least these peoplewho I who I worked with and who loved what I
(24:11):
did for them and got huge value and impact.
Wow.
That is actually is a great nugget to leave ouraudience with.
Thank you so much.
So, Peter, I just thank you for, you know, justoffering all of this information.
And, again, there they would be looking up,Peter Bray on, LinkedIn or going to your
website.
Correct?
(24:31):
And that will be in the show notes as well.
That's correct.
Thank you so much, Catherine.
It's a real pleasure talking to you.
Such a pleasure having you with us here today.
Thank you.
You have a wonderful day.
And again, thank you to our audience for justspending this time with us here today and
listening to all of the nuggets that Peter Brayhad for us.
(24:51):
We are so grateful.
And, again, this is Catherine, your host withthe Beyond Business podcast.
Have a wonderful day, everyone.
Well, if you made it to this point, then youmade it to the end, and you are my star.
And I just wanna thank you from the bottom ofmy heart.
I hope that you enjoyed the conversation withtoday's guest.
(25:13):
And if you did, please leave us a review onApple Podcasts and Spotify, and share this
episode with others who may be interested inthis topic.
Also, please feel free to let us know whattopics you'd like to see covered in future
episodes.
Get in touch in the comments or in RocketGrowth social media platforms.
(25:35):
To have conversations with me, my booking linkis in the comments.
See you next week for all for a all newepisode.
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