July 14, 2025 • 50 mins
Katherine Martín-Fisher introduces Shane Thrapp, who shares his journey with ADHD and the challenges it presented, including the impact of trauma. Shane offers advice for parents and discusses his personal struggles, leading to a turning point that propelled his professional success. The conversation explores neurodiversity in the workplace, effective marketing strategies, and leadership training. Shane reflects on his personal and professional journey, emphasizing the importance of work-life balance and identifying neurodivergence. They discuss targeting the ideal client and increasing awareness. The episode wraps up with Shane's contact information, closing thoughts, and a preview of upcoming topics.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:02):
I am Katherine Martín-Fisher, and I helpbusiness owners who have lost their vision
because they're struggling with cash flow,sales, and marketing, which also affects their
company culture.
By showing them how to implement proven systemsthat increase their revenue by 30% in 90 days,
I allow them to reignite the passion and thatbig dream they started with.
(00:29):
The reason I started this podcast was tocelebrate businesses that have overcome
adversity and have come out on the other sideof it.
I want you to know that you are not alone.
Good afternoon, this is Katherine, your hostwith The Beyond Business Podcast.
I'm excited to have Shane Thrapp with us heretoday.
(00:53):
Through his coaching, he has guided clients tounderstand their values, strengths, and how
ADHD affects them.
He helps entrepreneurs and small businessowners develop strategies for business
management, including marketing andadministration.
As a public speaker and facilitator, heeducates businesses, educators, and medical
(01:16):
professionals on ADHD, providing insights onnecessary accommodations for neurodivergent
success.
He also hosts virtual or in-person workshops tohelp with training your management teams and
employees on understanding neurodivergence.
Let's talk about that.
(01:36):
Let's start there.
Why don't you just go ahead and introduceyourself a little bit by talking about what
neurodivergence is?
Neurodivergence is kind of an umbrella term.
It actually encompasses multiple differentthings.
ADHD, autism, ADHD, which is the dualdiagnosis, as well as a lot of other mental
health issues such as depression, anxiety, OCD,and different things that kind of fall into
(02:02):
that realm.
And it's just kind of like the ways that ourbrains are wired along with some of the mental
health conditions that kind of come with livingin a society that doesn't really get how our
brains work.
And it doesn't really accept it very well.
Shane, I'm just excited to have you here today.
I would love to unfold just your story and someof the things that you had, you know, the
(02:24):
challenges, the successes.
So let's go ahead and start with, first of all,when did you know or realize that you were
diagnosed with ADHD?
So I actually started understanding more aboutADHD when I was around 30.
That was when my oldest son's teachers kind ofthought that there was something going on with
(02:45):
him and they thought it was ADHD.
And of course, to be a good father, I wanted tobe there for him.
I wanted to understand this issue that he wasdealing with.
And the more that I started reading about it,the more that I started going, oh, there's a
lot of things here that I really identify with.
And a lot of struggles and a lot of theproblems, you know, bouncing from job to job
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when I was much younger, bouncing fromrelationship to relationship, getting bored
easily, having a hard time with, you know, justkind of maintaining time, you know, management,
checking calendars, all of those differentthings I'd really struggled with for a very
long time.
And as I started kind of going more into it, Istarted hyper-fixating on these different
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presentations of ADHD.
And it made so much more sense to me.
And I, about a year later, I remember kind ofrunning to my wife, who's a special education
teacher.
And I was like, you know, baby, I think I thinkI have ADHD.
And she was like, honey, you didn't know?
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And I'm like, no.
Like, when did you know?
And she's like, when I read your datingprofile.
And I said, and I was like, why didn't you sayanything?
And she's like, I just thought you were being adude about it.
And I was like, man.
Wow.
It was funny because she had recognized itbecause whenever I created my dating profile, I
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had actually gone through this transformativetransformation stage where I just got out of a
really horrible abusive relationship with myex-wife, and I had spent two years really doing
a lot of self-reflection and self-improvementand working on my mental health and really
getting a better understanding of how my brainworked and that I needed to really start
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accepting who I was.
And I put on my dating profile just essentiallyexactly who I was.
And that was one of the things that had drawnher to me because she really, you know, values
that creative, impulsive mindset that I havebecause she's neurotypical and her life is very
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much that standard, you know, raised where herdad worked at a factory or her mom was a
teacher and landscaper and she had, you know,they had 2.5 children with the dog and a white
picket fence, and it was just a very standardlife and she just wanted different and I was
different.
And that was the journey.
That was the start of it.
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But it took me so long to actually getdiagnosed.
It took me another five years.
I love that we are talking about this becauseso many times, and I love when you mentioned in
the beginning, how, you know, once you realize,like when the school teachers are saying about
your son.
So the first thing in most cases they, youknow, they wanna medicate and they wanna, you
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know, instead of finding the root to the cause.
So how did you handle that once you had that aswhen you had that realization?
The thing about it is teachers very rarely wantyou to medicate.
The thing that we know about ADHD and actually,ironically enough, this is whenever people
really started to make a huge change in thethought process around ADHD management.
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And this is actually where we saw the AmericanAcademy of Pediatrics, CHADD, and other
organizations really moving away from initiallymedicating a child to really starting to put in
place the scientific things that we knew workedwith ADHD management.
And one of the reasons why I got so hardcoreinto what was essentially parent training was
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that's the first line of defense for parents isparent training, is educating yourself on ADHD
and really developing an understanding on howADHD affects your child.
And as I'm going through it again, I'm alsoidentifying how ADHD affects me.
Right.
And that was really the start of the journey.
Now, they did want to medicate my son, but itwas because even with all the different
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solutions that we were putting in place, he wasstill dealing with the inattentiveness and the
daydreaming and the different things of thatnature.
And the medication is there to help with that,the brain chemistry that causes so much of the
issues that a lot of people with ADHD face.
And so the reason I had asked that question isbecause I grew up in a generation where as soon
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as you had, you know, a diagnosis like thatright away, that was the case, but things have,
obviously we've evolved and we've gotten betterat understanding things.
How would you say now?
I love that you said you didn't really realizeuntil you were 30.
So with that, how would you say it?
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You feel now knowing that affected your youngerages as you were growing up?
Not knowing.
Yeah.
Not knowing.
It was really difficult because I always knew Iwas different.
Even my mom recognized I was different.
My father, you know, used to call me thedumbest smart kid he ever knew.
And because I always asked why.
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I always wanted to know the why.
I always wanted to understand how thingsworked.
And it didn't really matter what it was.
I was tearing things apart, but I was neverreally putting them together because once I
tore them apart, I understood it and I was donewith it.
You know, and honestly, I grew up in the samegeneration where whenever they thought you had
ADHD, like essentially back in way back in theday and whenever my mom first got me tested,
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the test that my pediatrician did was give me aRitalin pill.
And he goes, if you get super hyper on this,you don't have ADHD.
If you calm the hell down, then you do haveADHD.
And I took it and I got super hyper, but thatwas because, you know, I also have autism.
You know, my brain works slightly different.
So what functionally happened was I got superhyper and then my autism kicked in because my
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ADHD was kind of being managed.
So my autism kind of took in.
So being super socially awkward as well for ashort amount of time.
And they were like, okay, well, doesn't haveADHD, but autism really wasn't understood then
either because I was raised in rural Texas.
And that was the thing.
And so they just thought I was just weird.
And they were like, okay, well, just doesn'tneed any help.
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He's just, he's really super smart in school.
So therefore this isn't affecting him, so don'tworry about it.
And then I started getting older, and I startedhaving more issues with social issues, and I
started having a lot more complications with,you know, self-medicating with drugs and stuff
of that nature.
And of course, my father being abusive and analcoholic and also he had ADHD, you know, those
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undiagnosed and untreated.
It was just a really chaotic home life.
And I developed a lot of trauma because whenyou have ADHD or autism, you develop trauma at
a higher rate because we have an issue calledemotional dysregulation.
It's a major core factor for both issues.
And my emotional dysregulation just made mereally chaotic and hard to be around.
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And, you know, of course, I was learningviolence was an answer from my father.
And so there were a lot of issues with medealing with bullies in ways that my school
wasn't really appreciative of.
Mhmm.
And that, you know, of course, I was going toschool, you know, on drugs.
And so therefore, I still did really wellthough in class because I had built-in coping
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mechanisms where I'm hyperlexic.
I read very quickly.
And I was reading the textbooks before, youknow, the third week was up.
And so I already knew all the answers to allthe questions and all the tests because the
teachers only taught from books.
I still did well.
And so they just kinda said, okay, well, he'sdoing good in school, even though he has
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behavior issues, let it go.
How do you, so you've experienced quite a bitbecause not only did you have abuse, as you
said, you know, in your home, so you have thatchaos and then you're going to school and
having issues there with, you know, justbehavioral and what would be your advice as
parents are having to maneuver through thatwith whether it be a child that is autistic or
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ADHD, how do you help them know what is thenext best thing to do so that you can have the
best time in school.
I mean, you're brilliant.
You obviously, as the conversations that we'vehad, I'd like to unfold some of that is just
all of these different things you're doing.
(11:37):
So you actually have this brilliance inside ofyou.
So there's this gift that's given to you inwith all of the things you've had to go
through, you've been able to do so many amazingthings.
So let's talk a little bit about how first, howwould you, what would you suggest for a parent
going through and having a child that's thatbrilliant, but then they have to deal with the
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regular world that might be on a just adifferent page.
So in the ADHD parent support group and autismparent support groups I run on Facebook, one of
the biggest first steps is what I was sayingearlier, parent training and really
understanding the importance of teaching yourchild accepting who they are.
All of the all of the different issues.
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Not every person with ADHD or autism havegifts.
Right?
The, you know, they may have advantages incertain areas, but a lot of the detriments
really outweigh the good whenever you take intoconsideration social and environmental issues
that people have to deal with.
And a lot of parents may not have thesocioeconomic ability to put in place
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everything that a child with ADHD or autismneeds, especially, you know, just like any
other special education or special needs child.
When a parent's having to work 60, 70, 80 hoursa week just to get by, as single parents, all
of these different issues that people facewhenever we're dealing with the real world,
it's really important to understand you have todo whatever you can, and you have to be able to
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ask for help and ask for support and really putin place the understanding around whatever
issue that your child is dealing with, ADHD,autism, anxiety, social issues, executive
function issues.
You really have to take your time to do as muchas you can to understand those issues.
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And then you need to put in place a systemwhere your child is working with a doctor to
get, if there is medication needed, make surethat they're getting education, you know, the
medication.
You know, you have to also make sure you'reworking closely with the teachers to make sure
that they have a 504 plan or IEP, which arespecial education plans that are put in place
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for children who deal with ADHD, autism, majordepressive disorder, bipolar disorder, all of
these different special education or all thesedifferent issues that children face that are
protected under the Americans with DisabilitiesAct and the IDEA, which is the, I forget the
acronym for that, but it's a thing to protectstudents with special needs.
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And you have to work through that stigma.
Needs special needs education.
Yes, they do.
And you have to understand that you have to getpast that shame and that guilt.
Because if you're feeling shame and guilt,you're going to start instilling shame and
guilt in your children.
And then they're going to feel bad.
And they're already going to get a lot ofpressure from their peers and other people like
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that.
They have to have a bastion of safety at homethat allows them to thrive and have an
environment where they can always go back to.
That's kind of like their Batcave, their caveof solitude.
It has to be somewhere where they can feelsafe.
That way they can decompress and things of thatnature.
And once you start doing that, you start to seea lot of the behaviors and issues like that
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really recede, at least when they're at home.
Now, whenever they go to school.
How were you able to do that though, when youdidn't find out that you had this until you
were in your 30s?
I didn't.
You know, because once I got out of school andI lost the structure of school, I was just
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adrift.
I was homeless multiple times.
I was living out of a car.
I was, you know, I was finding my way into oldabandoned houses to make sure I had at least
somewhere to sleep.
I was dealing with being unemployed constantly.
I had a raging drug habit with opioids becauseof trauma and addiction issues.
Mhmm.
(15:30):
I wasn't doing well.
You know, ironically enough, it was my firstwife that really helped me turn everything
around and get me off drugs and get me intostable working environments and, you know,
really developing a little bit moreresponsibility.
And now, again, that kind of turned into a holyhot mess because she was a narcissist and, you
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know, a lot of the issues that I dealt withfrom there, but at least she did help me start
to get into a path of really wanting to bebetter professionally speaking.
She really drove me to be betterprofessionally.
And that's actually where I discovered projectmanagement.
And project management is what gave me thestructure and the ability to start really
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turning things around for myself.
And it was through project management andleadership training that I really developed
with a lot of mentors and things like thatalong the lines of people I had met that really
helped me start to put in place these littletips and tricks and things like that in my own
personal life.
It was like finding a system that a lot ofpeople really don't have, especially youth, to
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really start developing these continuousimprovement processes for myself.
And then it was just rebuilding myself.
And that's, that's where I found contractproject management was my happy place.
And I was working jobs where it's three toeight months at a time, intentionally going
from company to company because I'm alreadygoing to do it because once I get bored,
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finding acceptance in that, going to aheadhunter and having the confidence to say,
hey, look, cool.
I do three- to eight-month projects.
This is what I want.
Here's my skill set.
Here's my certifications.
Here's the work that I've done.
Here's the references I have.
And then going out and saying, okay, I've gotthese, I've got these, I've got these.
And so then I started going from Wells Fargoand Duke Energy and Cisco and all of these
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different places where I thrived because Iwould go into the chaos.
I would sit here and find all the differentthings.
I would learn everything I could about thecompany, and then I would develop the systems
and the processes and the trainings that theyneeded to be able to put in place all the
solutions I came up with, you know, and thatwas it.
That was the start of my professional journeyto become successful.
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But my home life, my personal life, still achaotic mess.
Hot mess.
Wow.
Well, you know, they always say that, you know,for every challenge that we have, there's
always a gift in the challenge. And
challenge. And I love that you shared thatbecause even though you had a difficult
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marriage in the first marriage, there was a lotof good to it.
There were good things that came out of it thatunfolded.
My first two children, like they're amazing.
That's awesome.
I have to acknowledge that.
And I have to acknowledge that my first wifedid get me out of drugs and she did get me onto
a path where I was, at least professionallyspeaking, being much better and being much more
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structured.
And, you know, I also have to acknowledge thatwithout that, I wouldn't have found acceptance
in who I was afterwards.
I wouldn't have taken the time to findacceptance in who I was afterwards because I
wouldn't have had that need to discover who Iwas again, because I lost a lot of who I was in
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shame and guilt of not being a good husband andnot being a good parent that she had taught me
for so many years that I was.
Right.
Wow.
So let's talk a little bit about how you helpcompanies and what does that look like?
I love when you were mentioning how you'd goin, you'd, you know, go into the chaos and
develop systems.
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Tell me a little bit about how you would, howyou would do that.
Yeah.
Working in the corporate world was so much funwhen I found the companies and the bosses that
really got me.
Especially like Cisco.
Cisco was an absolutely, absolutely amazingcompany because what they did was really start
to develop an understanding of mental health.
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And whenever they were hiring people in, theywere obviously making sure that they were
bringing in the right people for the right job.
And they found that neurodivergence was aquality in a lot of their people in different
roles.
A lot of software developers are often on theautism spectrum.
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A lot of really dynamic salespeople are on theADHD spectrum.
And a lot of understanding came from going,these people thrive in these kinds of
environments.
We need to make sure that the people that wehave who are doing project management or
project coordination can speak to those people.
And so my boss had intentionally went out andsaid, hey, I need somebody who can speak to
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software developers.
I need somebody who can speak to my sales team.
I need somebody who can bridge the gaps, and Ineed somebody who understands data and stuff
like that.
And so he brought in a team who all kind offell into the different spectrums of different
issues to be able to communicate effectively,but then also understood how to communicate in
neurotypical terms.
How to translate the conversations, how to openup the software developers who are often
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introverts and gamers.
And I knew how to speak all those languages.
And I knew how to develop it in natural waysand make these people feel heard and
understood.
And now I've taken that into consulting workwhere I specialize in working with people who
are really trying to develop an understandingof the different mindsets of their employees
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and put in place those accommodations that somepeople need.
Make sure that they're acknowledging theabilities that other people have, the strengths
that other people have, and the weaknesses thatthey have.
Because what we want to do is what we have toreally understand about understanding ADHD and
autism is those strengths and those weaknesses.
Because people with ADHD and autism often needto focus on their strengths while they're
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developing tools and skills and strategies fortheir weaknesses.
And a lot of the strategies need to bedelegation, not working through it, not, you
know, walking on the broken leg.
You have to work through those different issuesbecause if you push people with ADHD and autism
and other neurodivergence into spaces wherethey don't excel, then they start to getting
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they start trying to excel.
And that's great.
In a lot of cases, we do want to continuouslyimprove.
But people with ADHD have regulation issues.
They have attention regulation issues.
They have executive function regulation issues.
They have emotional regulation issues.
And so a lot of times they take it too farbecause they don't have the self-awareness to
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understand when they're getting sick or whenthey're getting overwhelmed or when they're
getting burned out.
And so they tend to take it too far and hurtthemselves.
And then they burn out, and burnout is kind oflike the broken leg of the mind.
And you have to take time to heal.
But often they're already in situations wherethey don't have the money, the resources, the
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ability to stop because they haven't built alife in their personal life.
And I go in and I teach people how to do thosethings.
I do it through the consultancy with thebusinesses to develop their accommodations, to
allow people to have time off, to have time togo outside, to have breaks throughout the day,
to intentionally give them the space to be ableto heal, to also put in place the things that
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allow them to thrive.
So like quiet spaces so they can focus orcooperation work so that they have people who
are, you know, able, they're able to delegatework with or work with in like body doubling
systems.
It's a lot of different things like that.
But I also do the individual coaching systemswhere I work with entrepreneurs who are wanting
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to develop their businesses in different ways,but they need to understand the same things,
but on their own personal level.
A lot of time as entrepreneurs, we try to takeon everything, right?
We see all those success stories by themillionaires who say they did it all on their
own.
I made millions of dollars all by myself.
And they don't ever talk about the fact thatthey have a virtual assistant or personal
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assistant, a manager who's taking care ofthings, a project coordinator, an HR director.
They don't talk about the support teams thatthose people have.
And so people with ADHD and autism don'trecognize that.
And so they try to do it all on their own.
And that's a, that's kind of going to lead to alot of times burnout and failure and different
things like that.
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And since people with ADHD are often 300percent more likely to become entrepreneurs,
they need to know these things.
And I teach to them and as a businessdevelopment manager, I even do those things for
them.
Because here's the trick on ADHD and autism, weoften can do for other people, the things that
we often don't do for ourselves.
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And so I have to teach people and do thingslike that with people until they are able to
maintain and get their own systems in place.
So how, let's say, how do you market yourselfso that business owners even know what you do,
how you do it, how you serve the world?
A lot of times it's through the networkingthings that I do.
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A lot of times it's word-of-mouth.
You know, again, we often do things for otherpeople that we don't do for ourselves.
But sometimes a lot of times what I'm doing isI also do a lot of work on social media, make
sure that I'm really creating blogs and contentthat are kind of around that realm.
But most of my work is just doing podcasts.
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I love talking about this stuff.
I love really developing relationships withpodcasters and their different audiences
because so many people don't realize that theyhave ADHD or autism or AudHD.
And they hear what I say, and they're like, oh,I deal with that.
Yes.
And the more exposure that I give to this tothe different audiences instead of having my
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own audience, the more that people come out tome and they say, actually, can you help me with
this?
Because I have zero clue what's going on, butI'm fairly certain.
And then we start going through the process.
Then they get into my short-term program, whichis about developing relationships with their
doctors and therapists and finding the systemsthat initially work for them.
And then once they graduate from that, we starttalking about their business or their personal
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lives or their relationships.
And we really started delving into that nextlevel of management.
And then once they start getting a betterhandle on their lives, we start talking about
how do we excel?
How do we go forward?
How do we make sure that we are taking thatacceptance that we're learning through the
first initial phases to the next level of howdo I make myself successful and thrive and find
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happiness and joy in life?
Because a lot of times we're miserable and it'sjust a slog.
You know, what I find interesting is that Iactually, you know, actually know people who
may have some of these things that they are notaware of and have actually grown up.
And then there's this brilliance that you see,but then I've noticed that they do better in
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nature and do better in doing the things thatbring them joy.
Right.
And so my question to you is, and that's thereason why I asked, how do you market yourself
and whatnot?
Because so many times, would you say that let'ssay there were specific, some corporations
actually would do really well to have some ofthese key employees in their ecosystem because
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they are, there are so many gifts in, you know,the way the brain functions in comparison.
So with that, how do you find, I guess, thebusiness owners, how do you help them navigate
through what it is that the gifts that theseemployees may have so that they are just not so
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much frustration?
I know that there's, there's so many differentways to unfold that.
A lot of times it's a lot of the workshops thatI do.
A lot of the workshops that I initially startoff with are introductions.
This is what ADHD is.
This is what autism is.
This is what ADHD is.
And once I start giving those indicators of thestrengths and the weaknesses that a lot of them
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deal with, a lot of the employees start going,I deal with this.
I'm empowering the employees to sit here and beable to interact with me on the workshop and
ask me questions and they start developing thisunderstanding and the bosses and the leaders
who are there, they start going, I've got a lotof people who really resonated with what that
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initial conversation that you said.
Can I bring you in as a consultant to talkabout this with our HR department and really
develop this through the DEI department andreally start to get a better understanding of
that?
And what does that mean?
And then there's my leadership training.
Let's talk to the leaders and say, okay, whatyou want to do is you want to identify and make
it safe for the people to be able to talk aboutthe issues that they deal with.
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And that's the key.
A lot of people with ADHD and autism will notinform their employers that they have these
issues because of the stigmas that come fromthat.
Right.
And that's the key to bringing in people likeme is to break through that stigma and sit here
and say, this is what success can look like.
Right?
You can bring in people who have this dynamicskill set, and here's how you can make them
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successful.
You have somebody with ADHD, have a plan inplace that has them shifting the work that
they're doing on a consistent basis, but isconsistently going, hey, your work is kind of
slacking off.
Are you bored?
Do you need more help?
And encouraging them to sit here and say, yeah,actually, I really am.
This has gotten really repetitive, and I'mreally dealing with a lot of struggles with how
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boring this is.
All right, cool.
Let's get you into a different position.
I get these other positions that are open.
What do you feel about them?
How do you feel about them?
And have the ability and the agency to sit hereand say, you know what, that's actually a
really good position for me.
All right, cool.
Let's do a two-month transition plan for you toshift to that new position, train your person,
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which you're introducing a new experience forthem.
And they start training their person.
They develop a better understanding of thatrole.
They're not burning themselves out becausethere's an exit plan that they're going to get
to.
And it's in a time frame that makes sense forthem.
People with ADHD and autism are interest-basedmindset.
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Right?
Neurotypical people are importance-basedmindset.
My boss says I should do this.
I should do this.
My wife, my husband, my spouse, my children sayI should do this thing.
I should do this thing.
Cool.
Importance-based is fine and it's important tohave it.
Interest-based is fine and it's important tohave it because those people are your dynamic
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mindsets.
They're the ones that are going to constantlybe creating things.
They're the ones who are going to be thinkingoutside the box.
And you need to understand that.
And you have to empower those people.
People with autism are amazing at verystructured work with really detailed and
understanding of what they're supposed to doand when they're supposed to do it.
(30:56):
And they're going to stay to that.
They're going to stick to that schedule.
They're going to be very focused on gettingthat work done.
And they're able to be very detailed workersbecause they hyper-fixate on every detail of
what you want.
So we see a lot of them in software developmentand coding and a lot of work that for a lot of
(31:17):
us is like, how did you do 15,000 lines in oneday of coding?
And they're like, I just did it.
And it's easy for them, and it's enjoyable forthem to do that.
Whereas, you know, me, I'm like, no, I know howto read coding.
I know how to do those things because I neededto know it to be able to speak to them.
(31:41):
But I couldn't do it to save my life.
You're like, hey, Shane, you will die if you donot hack the system.
Like, cool.
Let's go.
I'm done.
Peace.
You know, it's just like, you have tounderstand that we really focus on our
strengths, but we also have to understand, likeI said earlier, where those weaknesses are and
(32:03):
how we develop systems and put them in placefor those people to sit here and enjoy doing
what they do.
And the other stuff still gets done.
And that means having other people who are likepersonal assistants or virtual assistants or
body doubling, like I said earlier.
And it's all about teaching the leadership thatand then developing that culture throughout the
environment of the entire business.
(32:24):
And then you start to understand the importanceof neurodiversity, which is the overarching
understanding that different brains workdifferently, and that's okay.
How did you decide that this was your avenue inwhich to be able to develop people?
I didn't want people going through what Ithrough.
You know, earlier, I kind of talked about ittook five years to get a diagnosis, you know,
(32:48):
and it's because I didn't know.
I didn't have an education in it.
And even then it took another two years for meto get my autism diagnosis.
And that was because I went through all thedifferent stuff that people with ADHD are
supposed to do to manage their ADHD.
And I was still having so much social anxietyand struggles with doing different things like
(33:08):
that.
And I love being on the stage.
I love speaking in front of people, but mysocial anxiety was so bad.
And I had these weird tics and I would just doall these different things.
And I was always just there was something elsegoing on.
My therapist was like, let's do this test andkind of go through it.
(33:30):
And I just want you to just be really naturaland react how you want to react and all these
different things.
And so the more that I did that, the more Istarted noticing all these different patterns
that were coming up in the test.
And she said, I'm fairly certain you'reautistic.
And this is what that means.
And
when I started looking at all of the differentstruggles that I had had in work, because my
(33:55):
bosses would get on to me about not lookingthem in the eye or constantly fidgeting or not
being able to sit still or not being able tostay attentive during meetings.
And all of these different issues that I hadstruggled with, all of my professional career
and personal life and in all my relationships,the more I wanted to advocate and start really
(34:19):
working with people to educate them on that.
And of course, there's another component toADHD and autism is a social justice issue.
We thrive in social justice.
We cannot let go of those issues when we findthe issue that we're passionate about.
And when we do find those issues that we arepassionate about, we will go hardcore into
(34:42):
them.
And I did.
I started working with the Men's ADHD SupportGroup, which is a nonprofit that was developed
by Mark Almodovar and myself in 2022.
We developed the nonprofit into what it istoday.
We have a Facebook group of over 19,000 peoplenow.
We started developing weekly programs forpeople to be able to go to, to get help on
(35:05):
specific subjects.
We created a blog.
I started working with Michael Ruffin, who isthe founder of Dueling Minds, which is an ADHD
support group and a nonprofit now.
We started developing systems for people whowere dealing with ADHD, which is autism ADHD
dual diagnosis, because a lot of people don'treally know that that's a thing, even though
there is such a huge crossover between the twoissues.
(35:29):
And I really started working at theInternational ADHD Conference, which is a joint
venture between CHADD, ADDA, and ACO, three ofthe top ADHD organizations in the world for
ADHD advocacy.
And, you know, I just jumped full-fledged rightinto everything.
And so now not only do I do the work that I doprofessionally for Creating Order From Chaos,
(35:51):
I'm also involved in all these other venturesand really being a part of the change that's
being made.
And I'm thriving and I'm enjoying it.
And I have to balance that by being astay-at-home father and being a responsible
husband as well with twin five-year-olds whoare both kind of sitting on the different areas
of the spectrum.
(36:12):
So that was my next question actually, is howdo you balance your home-work life when you, I
mean, you have, you obviously shine.
It keeps, I feel it in just the way when you'respeaking, you could feel your passion just
start to ignite even more and more.
So, but how do you then balance that now thatyou have found all these amazing things that
(36:32):
you can make a difference in and you'repassionate about it, but then how do you
balance the home life with that?
A lot of communication, a lot of making surelike my wife is my soulmate.
Like she and I connected at such a fundamentallevel so early on.
She understood a lot of the issues that I wasdealing with, and she really empowered me to be
(36:55):
able to sit here and feel safe enough to go toher.
Even with the trauma of my first marriage,right, she would listen to me, and she would
identify with me, and obviously working with atherapist constantly, those issues that I
struggled with and the trauma that I struggledwith.
And she would go out of her way not to triggerthe living crap out of me.
(37:17):
And we would have these conversations that alot of people are really honestly not
comfortable having in a lot of relationships.
But she made me feel safe enough to have thoseconversations.
And it developed a different dynamic inrelationships that I had never developed
before.
And she made it so that I really thrive in thislong-term relationship.
(37:40):
A) She's never been boring, which has been abig struggle that I had from relationships
before.
She's always really pushed me to be better, butnot just in professional life, but personally
speaking.
And as a father, she's really pushed myboundaries in ways that really focused again on
my strengths.
What am I strong at?
(38:02):
And how do we deal with those different issues?
Like in 2018, literally at the lowest time ofmy life, I was dealing with fibromyalgia, which
is a crippling nerve disorder.
And I was burning out really significantly fromwork.
And I just became bedridden for the most partof 2018.
(38:23):
I had to retire from the corporate world.
And I had to rebuild myself in 2019 at the sametime that my wife was pregnant with our child.
And throughout the pregnancy, while I was beingas much of a support to her, she was being a
support to me because I was having room torebuild and she goes, look, you're going to be
(38:44):
a great father.
And here's the thing.
I could be the provider, and you can be thestay-at-home father.
And I'm good with that.
I think that that's amazing.
I think you're going to be a great stay-at-homefather.
Let's focus on that.
And in the meantime, let's rebuild things.
Here's my expectation.
You're already bringing in $1,600 to $1,800 amonth by being a stay-at-home father and not
(39:08):
having to deal with daycare for twins.
Okay.
Well, all right.
Well, that's not something I had thought about.
Right.
We would have had to pay that.
And she's like, let's see how many hours thatyou can work healthily.
What does that look like?
Right?
Let's develop that.
But heal first.
And she was really big on healing.
(39:28):
Heal.
Just like you have to let a broken bone healover time, you know, and not walk around on a
broken leg or not keep trying to use the arm,or else you'll tear it.
Burnout requires healing.
And I had to take that time.
But in the meantime, I had enough to be able todo 10 to 20 hours of work a week.
All right.
What does that look like?
All right.
Well, I can do that in development.
(39:49):
Let me work with an ADHD coach who understandsADHD.
Let's work on what that business can look like.
All right.
Cool.
You can do a little bit of project management,but what about coaching people?
All right, cool.
What does that look like?
Can I make that much money?
And she was like, how much are you paying me?
You know, I'm like, oh, okay.
Well, yeah, you know, now that you mentionedit, you know, and really developing an
(40:12):
understanding of what my skill sets were andhow to apply them in my life, but also paying
attention to, can only work 10 to 20 hours aweek.
All right, cool.
How do I get to a place where I can work more?
All right, cool.
Slowly.
That's how you can.
And then developing the systems that I neededgave me the basis for what I can do for other
(40:33):
people by helping them.
Not because my system works.
There's a popular saying out there.
When you meet one person with ADHD or autism,you've met one person with ADHD or autism
because so much of their different things.
These are both spectrum issues.
And so they're going to deal with a thousanddifferent combinations of struggles and
strengths.
And you have to acknowledge that and you haveto find the systems that work for each one of
(40:57):
them.
And so I go into your chaos and I help youcreate order from it, but it's going to be your
chaos and it's going to be your order, not a10-step system that's going to work for every
single person with ADHD and autism.
Those don't exist, and anybody who says so,they're lying to you.
I'm going to be blunt about that.
There's not a single system that works.
(41:19):
You have to develop an individual system.
That's one of the reasons why I don't really dogroup coaching very much.
I do group coaching in the realm of educatingpeople on ADHD and autism.
I do group systems where I'm kind of givingpeople a very basic understanding of a specific
struggle that many of them deal with.
But very often, you cannot really do a lot ofreally successful group coaching, even though
(41:40):
there's a lot of them out there, and Iacknowledge that y'all are out there.
But for true success for a person with ADHD orautism or both, it really needs to be
individual systems that they are able to put inplace themselves.
And that takes working with them and helpingwith accountability and helping them one-on-one
in many cases or very, very small groups, twoto three max.
(42:02):
Give me an example of two to three things thatwould be a clue that you're someone who has
some of
the struggles that he, you know, if you haveADHD or autism,
what would be two to three clues?
Oh my gosh.
Two to three.
You know, there's nine criteria for ADHDhyperactivity and nine for inattentive.
(42:24):
So let's see what's some clues.
Let's do systemic clues.
Let's do large scale.
If you find yourself working in a position andgetting bored after six months of working
there, and you're consistently starting to getoverwhelmed and burned out because your boss is
asking you to do a hundred things because youwere successful at ten.
Right.
(42:45):
But those other things are just really boring,and it's driving you insane.
Good sign.
Let's go ahead and talk about what that lookslike.
Let's explore.
If the same thing's happening to you inrelationships where you get into a relationship
and after six to eight months, you're justkinda like, you are just, it's annoying that
you breathe around me.
Like and you but you, you know, we're supposedto stay in successful relationships that are
(43:09):
lasting for 50 years.
That's what the definition of a successfulrelationship is.
But this person's boring you to death, youknow.
If you find that you're having to constantlymask who you feel you really are just to fit in
with essentially the entirety of the societyaround you because you were dealing with being
(43:32):
made fun of, or people thought you were weird,or people really thought you were like overly
creepy, or all of these different stereotypesthat are out there.
You know, you're probably dealing with somesort of neurodivergence, maybe not ADHD, maybe
not autism, but you should be talking to yourdoctor anyway.
You should be working with your doctors andyour therapists and developing an understanding
(43:55):
of who you are, especially if you're reallyinto self-help and you're really wanting to
develop who you are.
You need to work with the professionals whorecognize these things, and you really have to
get a better grasp of who you really are.
Regardless of if you're neurotypical orneurodivergent, you really have to have that
grasp of who you are, your strengths, yourweaknesses, and develop systems that work
(44:18):
successfully for you.
And sometimes if you find all those self-helpbooks that are built for neurotypical people
have these solutions that are in place for youin that realm, and none of them seem to work
for you because they're inane or stupid orboring or just don't fit.
Well, a lot of those self-help books aredesigned for people who are neurotypical and
(44:39):
you're not a neurotypical person.
So if you're finding yourself really strugglingwith self-improvement because the books that
you see on your advertisements keep coming indon't fit you, start to look in neurodivergence
and find out where you fit.
So who would be your ideal client avatar?
If you find yourself as a serial entrepreneurthat has multiple different businesses, you
(45:01):
might have ADHD.
I feel like Jeff Foxworthy just now.
My ideal clients, let's just do my three.
My ideal clients are people who are eitherfairly aware that they have ADHD and autism and
are really on the path to try to start reallydeveloping who they are professionally
speaking.
You know, I do have my lower tiers where I walkpeople through the very beginning and stuff
(45:24):
like that.
But my focus right now is entrepreneurs whohave discovered that they have ADHD or autism
or both, and they're really wanting to developtheir business successfully, sustainably, and
need help getting that concept out there.
My other ideal clients are business owners orbusiness managers who know that they have a
(45:45):
really strong presence of neurodivergent peoplein their field.
So tech, game companies, medical professionals.
We thrive in the ER departments, by the way.
Firemen, police officers, a lot of us are inthose realms.
I would love to see the demographics of ADHDand autism in the military.
A lot of candidates who are in these positions,sales is a huge one for people with ADHD, these
(46:11):
really dynamic, fast-paced employees, or, youknow, businesses.
A lot of your neurodivergent people are goingto find themselves navigating into those
realms.
And those are, you know, those people, thoseleaders need to understand how to give those
employees the success that they need.
And that's another ideal client for me is thosesmaller businesses or mid-level businesses that
(46:32):
are really developing that system.
Shane, I'm going to tell you, I've learned somuch and it's so crazy as we have this
conversation.
I'm, you know, I have all these people thatcome to mind that throughout my life, just
things that were just different.
I mean, so many of them have so muchbrilliance, but then there was always that,
that place where there wasn't that like thenorm, the world considers norm, you know, to
(46:57):
fit in.
But I feel that there are more and moreneurodivergent people in the world now that
there's more awareness, maybe that's what itis.
And, but I, but I've always seen the brilliancein the neurodivergent because now that I
understand that a little more clearly, I amunderstanding where their brilliance could have
(47:18):
shined even further.
So with that, I just yeah.
I'm wanting to reach out now to some of thesepeople, but even people in my own life now, I
just feel like there are there's just I've andI've always said that.
I've always said you have this brilliance.
There's just I mean, it's just your brain justthinks different, but it's that what's what
(47:39):
makes it all so amazing, right?
So what I wanna ask you is if people who haveresonated with our podcast today who have, you
know, just said, man, I just wanna reach out.
I wanna know more.
I want you know, to work with this guy.
So how do they reach Shane?
What what would they do?
And what's the best way in which to seek youout?
Honestly, reaching out to my website, CreatingOrder from Chaos.
(48:03):
I've actually got a freebie in there.
That's a personal freebie.
If you go to my home and it's a drop-down, it'sin there.
But if you sign up for my email list, you'regonna get access to it immediately.
You know, that's the first step.
You know, come check that out.
Go there.
I've got a lot of blogs that are there that aregoing to really highlight and help you
understand that, not just in careers, but alsoas parents.
That's a new kick I'm on right now.
(48:24):
And really start to delve into that and get abetter understanding through the education
resources that I have there.
And, you know, but you can always reach me atshane@creatingorderfromchaos.com.
Set up a talk with me.
Let's have a conversation about it.
Let's delve into it because I guarantee after45 minutes with me, you're going to walk away
with some solutions that you didn't even thinkof.
(48:44):
Wow.
Wow.
And you know what?
They are the brilliant minds of the world too.
So I, you know, and I've just, I've seen it andI, now that I understand it, I'm like, wow,
that's why they are so powerful in that areathat most, you know, most people are like,
wouldn't even think that way.
And it's just like, that's brilliant.
(49:05):
And yeah.
Anyway, I am so glad that we had thisconversation.
I am excited to actually put this out there andjust have the world know more about you, about
what you offer.
So I want to thank you for this time together.
Thank you for having me on.
I really appreciate it.
Welcome.
I really hope that everybody, neurotypical andneurodivergent alike, really walks away with
(49:28):
this with the understanding that acceptance isreally going to be key to giving everyone
around yourself the ability to be who they areand be happy.
I love it.
I love it.
Thank you once again.
And to our audience, thank you so much for justsharing this time with us.
This is Katherine, your host with The BeyondBusiness Podcast, and excited to have had Shane
(49:49):
with us here today just explaining all of thisand unfolding.
So please reach out.
Thank you again.
Well, if you made it to this point, then youmade it to the end, and you are my star.
And I just want to thank you from the bottom ofmy heart.
I hope that you enjoyed the conversation withtoday's guest.
(50:09):
And if you did, please leave us a review onApple Podcasts and Spotify and share this
episode with others who may be interested inthis topic.
Also, please feel free to let us know whattopics you'd like to see covered in future
episodes.
Get in touch in the comments or on RocketGrowth's social media platforms to have
(50:31):
conversations with me.
My booking link is in the comments.
See you next week for an all-new episode.
I am Katherine Martín-Fisher, and I helpbusiness owners who have lost their vision
because they're struggling with cash flow,sales, and marketing, which also affects their
company culture.
By showing them how to implement proven systemsthat increase their revenue by 30% in 90 days,
I allow them to reignite the passion and thatbig dream they started with.
(00:29):
The reason I started this podcast was tocelebrate businesses that have overcome
adversity and have come out on the other sideof it.
I want you to know that you are not alone.
Good afternoon, this is Katherine, your hostwith The Beyond Business Podcast.
I'm excited to have Shane Thrapp with us heretoday.
(00:53):
Through his coaching, he has guided clients tounderstand their values, strengths, and how
ADHD affects them.
He helps entrepreneurs and small businessowners develop strategies for business
management, including marketing andadministration.
As a public speaker and facilitator, heeducates businesses, educators, and medical
(01:16):
professionals on ADHD, providing insights onnecessary accommodations for neurodivergent
success.
He also hosts virtual or in-person workshops tohelp with training your management teams and
employees on understanding neurodivergence.
Let's talk about that.
(01:36):
Let's start there.
Why don't you just go ahead and introduceyourself a little bit by talking about what
neurodivergence is?
Neurodivergence is kind of an umbrella term.
It actually encompasses multiple differentthings.
ADHD, autism, ADHD, which is the dualdiagnosis, as well as a lot of other mental
health issues such as depression, anxiety, OCD,and different things that kind of fall into
(02:02):
that realm.
And it's just kind of like the ways that ourbrains are wired along with some of the mental
health conditions that kind of come with livingin a society that doesn't really get how our
brains work.
And it doesn't really accept it very well.
Shane, I'm just excited to have you here today.
I would love to unfold just your story and someof the things that you had, you know, the
(02:24):
challenges, the successes.
So let's go ahead and start with, first of all,when did you know or realize that you were
diagnosed with ADHD?
So I actually started understanding more aboutADHD when I was around 30.
That was when my oldest son's teachers kind ofthought that there was something going on with
(02:45):
him and they thought it was ADHD.
And of course, to be a good father, I wanted tobe there for him.
I wanted to understand this issue that he wasdealing with.
And the more that I started reading about it,the more that I started going, oh, there's a
lot of things here that I really identify with.
And a lot of struggles and a lot of theproblems, you know, bouncing from job to job
(03:08):
when I was much younger, bouncing fromrelationship to relationship, getting bored
easily, having a hard time with, you know, justkind of maintaining time, you know, management,
checking calendars, all of those differentthings I'd really struggled with for a very
long time.
And as I started kind of going more into it, Istarted hyper-fixating on these different
(03:31):
presentations of ADHD.
And it made so much more sense to me.
And I, about a year later, I remember kind ofrunning to my wife, who's a special education
teacher.
And I was like, you know, baby, I think I thinkI have ADHD.
And she was like, honey, you didn't know?
(03:52):
And I'm like, no.
Like, when did you know?
And she's like, when I read your datingprofile.
And I said, and I was like, why didn't you sayanything?
And she's like, I just thought you were being adude about it.
And I was like, man.
Wow.
It was funny because she had recognized itbecause whenever I created my dating profile, I
(04:13):
had actually gone through this transformativetransformation stage where I just got out of a
really horrible abusive relationship with myex-wife, and I had spent two years really doing
a lot of self-reflection and self-improvementand working on my mental health and really
getting a better understanding of how my brainworked and that I needed to really start
(04:35):
accepting who I was.
And I put on my dating profile just essentiallyexactly who I was.
And that was one of the things that had drawnher to me because she really, you know, values
that creative, impulsive mindset that I havebecause she's neurotypical and her life is very
(04:56):
much that standard, you know, raised where herdad worked at a factory or her mom was a
teacher and landscaper and she had, you know,they had 2.5 children with the dog and a white
picket fence, and it was just a very standardlife and she just wanted different and I was
different.
And that was the journey.
That was the start of it.
(05:17):
But it took me so long to actually getdiagnosed.
It took me another five years.
I love that we are talking about this becauseso many times, and I love when you mentioned in
the beginning, how, you know, once you realize,like when the school teachers are saying about
your son.
So the first thing in most cases they, youknow, they wanna medicate and they wanna, you
(05:40):
know, instead of finding the root to the cause.
So how did you handle that once you had that aswhen you had that realization?
The thing about it is teachers very rarely wantyou to medicate.
The thing that we know about ADHD and actually,ironically enough, this is whenever people
really started to make a huge change in thethought process around ADHD management.
(06:04):
And this is actually where we saw the AmericanAcademy of Pediatrics, CHADD, and other
organizations really moving away from initiallymedicating a child to really starting to put in
place the scientific things that we knew workedwith ADHD management.
And one of the reasons why I got so hardcoreinto what was essentially parent training was
(06:29):
that's the first line of defense for parents isparent training, is educating yourself on ADHD
and really developing an understanding on howADHD affects your child.
And as I'm going through it again, I'm alsoidentifying how ADHD affects me.
Right.
And that was really the start of the journey.
Now, they did want to medicate my son, but itwas because even with all the different
(06:54):
solutions that we were putting in place, he wasstill dealing with the inattentiveness and the
daydreaming and the different things of thatnature.
And the medication is there to help with that,the brain chemistry that causes so much of the
issues that a lot of people with ADHD face.
And so the reason I had asked that question isbecause I grew up in a generation where as soon
(07:17):
as you had, you know, a diagnosis like thatright away, that was the case, but things have,
obviously we've evolved and we've gotten betterat understanding things.
How would you say now?
I love that you said you didn't really realizeuntil you were 30.
So with that, how would you say it?
(07:38):
You feel now knowing that affected your youngerages as you were growing up?
Not knowing.
Yeah.
Not knowing.
It was really difficult because I always knew Iwas different.
Even my mom recognized I was different.
My father, you know, used to call me thedumbest smart kid he ever knew.
And because I always asked why.
(07:59):
I always wanted to know the why.
I always wanted to understand how thingsworked.
And it didn't really matter what it was.
I was tearing things apart, but I was neverreally putting them together because once I
tore them apart, I understood it and I was donewith it.
You know, and honestly, I grew up in the samegeneration where whenever they thought you had
ADHD, like essentially back in way back in theday and whenever my mom first got me tested,
(08:25):
the test that my pediatrician did was give me aRitalin pill.
And he goes, if you get super hyper on this,you don't have ADHD.
If you calm the hell down, then you do haveADHD.
And I took it and I got super hyper, but thatwas because, you know, I also have autism.
You know, my brain works slightly different.
So what functionally happened was I got superhyper and then my autism kicked in because my
(08:50):
ADHD was kind of being managed.
So my autism kind of took in.
So being super socially awkward as well for ashort amount of time.
And they were like, okay, well, doesn't haveADHD, but autism really wasn't understood then
either because I was raised in rural Texas.
And that was the thing.
And so they just thought I was just weird.
And they were like, okay, well, just doesn'tneed any help.
(09:13):
He's just, he's really super smart in school.
So therefore this isn't affecting him, so don'tworry about it.
And then I started getting older, and I startedhaving more issues with social issues, and I
started having a lot more complications with,you know, self-medicating with drugs and stuff
of that nature.
And of course, my father being abusive and analcoholic and also he had ADHD, you know, those
(09:40):
undiagnosed and untreated.
It was just a really chaotic home life.
And I developed a lot of trauma because whenyou have ADHD or autism, you develop trauma at
a higher rate because we have an issue calledemotional dysregulation.
It's a major core factor for both issues.
And my emotional dysregulation just made mereally chaotic and hard to be around.
(10:04):
And, you know, of course, I was learningviolence was an answer from my father.
And so there were a lot of issues with medealing with bullies in ways that my school
wasn't really appreciative of.
Mhmm.
And that, you know, of course, I was going toschool, you know, on drugs.
And so therefore, I still did really wellthough in class because I had built-in coping
(10:28):
mechanisms where I'm hyperlexic.
I read very quickly.
And I was reading the textbooks before, youknow, the third week was up.
And so I already knew all the answers to allthe questions and all the tests because the
teachers only taught from books.
I still did well.
And so they just kinda said, okay, well, he'sdoing good in school, even though he has
(10:52):
behavior issues, let it go.
How do you, so you've experienced quite a bitbecause not only did you have abuse, as you
said, you know, in your home, so you have thatchaos and then you're going to school and
having issues there with, you know, justbehavioral and what would be your advice as
parents are having to maneuver through thatwith whether it be a child that is autistic or
(11:17):
ADHD, how do you help them know what is thenext best thing to do so that you can have the
best time in school.
I mean, you're brilliant.
You obviously, as the conversations that we'vehad, I'd like to unfold some of that is just
all of these different things you're doing.
(11:37):
So you actually have this brilliance inside ofyou.
So there's this gift that's given to you inwith all of the things you've had to go
through, you've been able to do so many amazingthings.
So let's talk a little bit about how first, howwould you, what would you suggest for a parent
going through and having a child that's thatbrilliant, but then they have to deal with the
(11:59):
regular world that might be on a just adifferent page.
So in the ADHD parent support group and autismparent support groups I run on Facebook, one of
the biggest first steps is what I was sayingearlier, parent training and really
understanding the importance of teaching yourchild accepting who they are.
All of the all of the different issues.
(12:20):
Not every person with ADHD or autism havegifts.
Right?
The, you know, they may have advantages incertain areas, but a lot of the detriments
really outweigh the good whenever you take intoconsideration social and environmental issues
that people have to deal with.
And a lot of parents may not have thesocioeconomic ability to put in place
(12:41):
everything that a child with ADHD or autismneeds, especially, you know, just like any
other special education or special needs child.
When a parent's having to work 60, 70, 80 hoursa week just to get by, as single parents, all
of these different issues that people facewhenever we're dealing with the real world,
it's really important to understand you have todo whatever you can, and you have to be able to
(13:03):
ask for help and ask for support and really putin place the understanding around whatever
issue that your child is dealing with, ADHD,autism, anxiety, social issues, executive
function issues.
You really have to take your time to do as muchas you can to understand those issues.
(13:24):
And then you need to put in place a systemwhere your child is working with a doctor to
get, if there is medication needed, make surethat they're getting education, you know, the
medication.
You know, you have to also make sure you'reworking closely with the teachers to make sure
that they have a 504 plan or IEP, which arespecial education plans that are put in place
(13:44):
for children who deal with ADHD, autism, majordepressive disorder, bipolar disorder, all of
these different special education or all thesedifferent issues that children face that are
protected under the Americans with DisabilitiesAct and the IDEA, which is the, I forget the
acronym for that, but it's a thing to protectstudents with special needs.
(14:05):
And you have to work through that stigma.
Needs special needs education.
Yes, they do.
And you have to understand that you have to getpast that shame and that guilt.
Because if you're feeling shame and guilt,you're going to start instilling shame and
guilt in your children.
And then they're going to feel bad.
And they're already going to get a lot ofpressure from their peers and other people like
(14:25):
that.
They have to have a bastion of safety at homethat allows them to thrive and have an
environment where they can always go back to.
That's kind of like their Batcave, their caveof solitude.
It has to be somewhere where they can feelsafe.
That way they can decompress and things of thatnature.
And once you start doing that, you start to seea lot of the behaviors and issues like that
(14:49):
really recede, at least when they're at home.
Now, whenever they go to school.
How were you able to do that though, when youdidn't find out that you had this until you
were in your 30s?
I didn't.
You know, because once I got out of school andI lost the structure of school, I was just
(15:09):
adrift.
I was homeless multiple times.
I was living out of a car.
I was, you know, I was finding my way into oldabandoned houses to make sure I had at least
somewhere to sleep.
I was dealing with being unemployed constantly.
I had a raging drug habit with opioids becauseof trauma and addiction issues.
Mhmm.
(15:30):
I wasn't doing well.
You know, ironically enough, it was my firstwife that really helped me turn everything
around and get me off drugs and get me intostable working environments and, you know,
really developing a little bit moreresponsibility.
And now, again, that kind of turned into a holyhot mess because she was a narcissist and, you
(15:52):
know, a lot of the issues that I dealt withfrom there, but at least she did help me start
to get into a path of really wanting to bebetter professionally speaking.
She really drove me to be betterprofessionally.
And that's actually where I discovered projectmanagement.
And project management is what gave me thestructure and the ability to start really
(16:13):
turning things around for myself.
And it was through project management andleadership training that I really developed
with a lot of mentors and things like thatalong the lines of people I had met that really
helped me start to put in place these littletips and tricks and things like that in my own
personal life.
It was like finding a system that a lot ofpeople really don't have, especially youth, to
(16:40):
really start developing these continuousimprovement processes for myself.
And then it was just rebuilding myself.
And that's, that's where I found contractproject management was my happy place.
And I was working jobs where it's three toeight months at a time, intentionally going
from company to company because I'm alreadygoing to do it because once I get bored,
(17:00):
finding acceptance in that, going to aheadhunter and having the confidence to say,
hey, look, cool.
I do three- to eight-month projects.
This is what I want.
Here's my skill set.
Here's my certifications.
Here's the work that I've done.
Here's the references I have.
And then going out and saying, okay, I've gotthese, I've got these, I've got these.
And so then I started going from Wells Fargoand Duke Energy and Cisco and all of these
(17:24):
different places where I thrived because Iwould go into the chaos.
I would sit here and find all the differentthings.
I would learn everything I could about thecompany, and then I would develop the systems
and the processes and the trainings that theyneeded to be able to put in place all the
solutions I came up with, you know, and thatwas it.
That was the start of my professional journeyto become successful.
(17:47):
But my home life, my personal life, still achaotic mess.
Hot mess.
Wow.
Well, you know, they always say that, you know,for every challenge that we have, there's
always a gift in the challenge. And
challenge. And I love that you shared thatbecause even though you had a difficult
(18:08):
marriage in the first marriage, there was a lotof good to it.
There were good things that came out of it thatunfolded.
My first two children, like they're amazing.
That's awesome.
I have to acknowledge that.
And I have to acknowledge that my first wifedid get me out of drugs and she did get me onto
a path where I was, at least professionallyspeaking, being much better and being much more
(18:30):
structured.
And, you know, I also have to acknowledge thatwithout that, I wouldn't have found acceptance
in who I was afterwards.
I wouldn't have taken the time to findacceptance in who I was afterwards because I
wouldn't have had that need to discover who Iwas again, because I lost a lot of who I was in
(18:50):
shame and guilt of not being a good husband andnot being a good parent that she had taught me
for so many years that I was.
Right.
Wow.
So let's talk a little bit about how you helpcompanies and what does that look like?
I love when you were mentioning how you'd goin, you'd, you know, go into the chaos and
develop systems.
(19:11):
Tell me a little bit about how you would, howyou would do that.
Yeah.
Working in the corporate world was so much funwhen I found the companies and the bosses that
really got me.
Especially like Cisco.
Cisco was an absolutely, absolutely amazingcompany because what they did was really start
to develop an understanding of mental health.
(19:33):
And whenever they were hiring people in, theywere obviously making sure that they were
bringing in the right people for the right job.
And they found that neurodivergence was aquality in a lot of their people in different
roles.
A lot of software developers are often on theautism spectrum.
(19:54):
A lot of really dynamic salespeople are on theADHD spectrum.
And a lot of understanding came from going,these people thrive in these kinds of
environments.
We need to make sure that the people that wehave who are doing project management or
project coordination can speak to those people.
And so my boss had intentionally went out andsaid, hey, I need somebody who can speak to
(20:15):
software developers.
I need somebody who can speak to my sales team.
I need somebody who can bridge the gaps, and Ineed somebody who understands data and stuff
like that.
And so he brought in a team who all kind offell into the different spectrums of different
issues to be able to communicate effectively,but then also understood how to communicate in
neurotypical terms.
How to translate the conversations, how to openup the software developers who are often
(20:39):
introverts and gamers.
And I knew how to speak all those languages.
And I knew how to develop it in natural waysand make these people feel heard and
understood.
And now I've taken that into consulting workwhere I specialize in working with people who
are really trying to develop an understandingof the different mindsets of their employees
(21:04):
and put in place those accommodations that somepeople need.
Make sure that they're acknowledging theabilities that other people have, the strengths
that other people have, and the weaknesses thatthey have.
Because what we want to do is what we have toreally understand about understanding ADHD and
autism is those strengths and those weaknesses.
Because people with ADHD and autism often needto focus on their strengths while they're
(21:30):
developing tools and skills and strategies fortheir weaknesses.
And a lot of the strategies need to bedelegation, not working through it, not, you
know, walking on the broken leg.
You have to work through those different issuesbecause if you push people with ADHD and autism
and other neurodivergence into spaces wherethey don't excel, then they start to getting
(21:54):
they start trying to excel.
And that's great.
In a lot of cases, we do want to continuouslyimprove.
But people with ADHD have regulation issues.
They have attention regulation issues.
They have executive function regulation issues.
They have emotional regulation issues.
And so a lot of times they take it too farbecause they don't have the self-awareness to
(22:16):
understand when they're getting sick or whenthey're getting overwhelmed or when they're
getting burned out.
And so they tend to take it too far and hurtthemselves.
And then they burn out, and burnout is kind oflike the broken leg of the mind.
And you have to take time to heal.
But often they're already in situations wherethey don't have the money, the resources, the
(22:40):
ability to stop because they haven't built alife in their personal life.
And I go in and I teach people how to do thosethings.
I do it through the consultancy with thebusinesses to develop their accommodations, to
allow people to have time off, to have time togo outside, to have breaks throughout the day,
to intentionally give them the space to be ableto heal, to also put in place the things that
(23:03):
allow them to thrive.
So like quiet spaces so they can focus orcooperation work so that they have people who
are, you know, able, they're able to delegatework with or work with in like body doubling
systems.
It's a lot of different things like that.
But I also do the individual coaching systemswhere I work with entrepreneurs who are wanting
(23:23):
to develop their businesses in different ways,but they need to understand the same things,
but on their own personal level.
A lot of time as entrepreneurs, we try to takeon everything, right?
We see all those success stories by themillionaires who say they did it all on their
own.
I made millions of dollars all by myself.
And they don't ever talk about the fact thatthey have a virtual assistant or personal
(23:44):
assistant, a manager who's taking care ofthings, a project coordinator, an HR director.
They don't talk about the support teams thatthose people have.
And so people with ADHD and autism don'trecognize that.
And so they try to do it all on their own.
And that's a, that's kind of going to lead to alot of times burnout and failure and different
things like that.
(24:04):
And since people with ADHD are often 300percent more likely to become entrepreneurs,
they need to know these things.
And I teach to them and as a businessdevelopment manager, I even do those things for
them.
Because here's the trick on ADHD and autism, weoften can do for other people, the things that
we often don't do for ourselves.
(24:26):
And so I have to teach people and do thingslike that with people until they are able to
maintain and get their own systems in place.
So how, let's say, how do you market yourselfso that business owners even know what you do,
how you do it, how you serve the world?
A lot of times it's through the networkingthings that I do.
(24:47):
A lot of times it's word-of-mouth.
You know, again, we often do things for otherpeople that we don't do for ourselves.
But sometimes a lot of times what I'm doing isI also do a lot of work on social media, make
sure that I'm really creating blogs and contentthat are kind of around that realm.
But most of my work is just doing podcasts.
(25:09):
I love talking about this stuff.
I love really developing relationships withpodcasters and their different audiences
because so many people don't realize that theyhave ADHD or autism or AudHD.
And they hear what I say, and they're like, oh,I deal with that.
Yes.
And the more exposure that I give to this tothe different audiences instead of having my
(25:33):
own audience, the more that people come out tome and they say, actually, can you help me with
this?
Because I have zero clue what's going on, butI'm fairly certain.
And then we start going through the process.
Then they get into my short-term program, whichis about developing relationships with their
doctors and therapists and finding the systemsthat initially work for them.
And then once they graduate from that, we starttalking about their business or their personal
(25:56):
lives or their relationships.
And we really started delving into that nextlevel of management.
And then once they start getting a betterhandle on their lives, we start talking about
how do we excel?
How do we go forward?
How do we make sure that we are taking thatacceptance that we're learning through the
first initial phases to the next level of howdo I make myself successful and thrive and find
(26:20):
happiness and joy in life?
Because a lot of times we're miserable and it'sjust a slog.
You know, what I find interesting is that Iactually, you know, actually know people who
may have some of these things that they are notaware of and have actually grown up.
And then there's this brilliance that you see,but then I've noticed that they do better in
(26:44):
nature and do better in doing the things thatbring them joy.
Right.
And so my question to you is, and that's thereason why I asked, how do you market yourself
and whatnot?
Because so many times, would you say that let'ssay there were specific, some corporations
actually would do really well to have some ofthese key employees in their ecosystem because
(27:07):
they are, there are so many gifts in, you know,the way the brain functions in comparison.
So with that, how do you find, I guess, thebusiness owners, how do you help them navigate
through what it is that the gifts that theseemployees may have so that they are just not so
(27:28):
much frustration?
I know that there's, there's so many differentways to unfold that.
A lot of times it's a lot of the workshops thatI do.
A lot of the workshops that I initially startoff with are introductions.
This is what ADHD is.
This is what autism is.
This is what ADHD is.
And once I start giving those indicators of thestrengths and the weaknesses that a lot of them
(27:51):
deal with, a lot of the employees start going,I deal with this.
I'm empowering the employees to sit here and beable to interact with me on the workshop and
ask me questions and they start developing thisunderstanding and the bosses and the leaders
who are there, they start going, I've got a lotof people who really resonated with what that
(28:11):
initial conversation that you said.
Can I bring you in as a consultant to talkabout this with our HR department and really
develop this through the DEI department andreally start to get a better understanding of
that?
And what does that mean?
And then there's my leadership training.
Let's talk to the leaders and say, okay, whatyou want to do is you want to identify and make
it safe for the people to be able to talk aboutthe issues that they deal with.
(28:35):
And that's the key.
A lot of people with ADHD and autism will notinform their employers that they have these
issues because of the stigmas that come fromthat.
Right.
And that's the key to bringing in people likeme is to break through that stigma and sit here
and say, this is what success can look like.
Right?
You can bring in people who have this dynamicskill set, and here's how you can make them
(29:00):
successful.
You have somebody with ADHD, have a plan inplace that has them shifting the work that
they're doing on a consistent basis, but isconsistently going, hey, your work is kind of
slacking off.
Are you bored?
Do you need more help?
And encouraging them to sit here and say, yeah,actually, I really am.
This has gotten really repetitive, and I'mreally dealing with a lot of struggles with how
(29:26):
boring this is.
All right, cool.
Let's get you into a different position.
I get these other positions that are open.
What do you feel about them?
How do you feel about them?
And have the ability and the agency to sit hereand say, you know what, that's actually a
really good position for me.
All right, cool.
Let's do a two-month transition plan for you toshift to that new position, train your person,
(29:50):
which you're introducing a new experience forthem.
And they start training their person.
They develop a better understanding of thatrole.
They're not burning themselves out becausethere's an exit plan that they're going to get
to.
And it's in a time frame that makes sense forthem.
People with ADHD and autism are interest-basedmindset.
(30:11):
Right?
Neurotypical people are importance-basedmindset.
My boss says I should do this.
I should do this.
My wife, my husband, my spouse, my children sayI should do this thing.
I should do this thing.
Cool.
Importance-based is fine and it's important tohave it.
Interest-based is fine and it's important tohave it because those people are your dynamic
(30:33):
mindsets.
They're the ones that are going to constantlybe creating things.
They're the ones who are going to be thinkingoutside the box.
And you need to understand that.
And you have to empower those people.
People with autism are amazing at verystructured work with really detailed and
understanding of what they're supposed to doand when they're supposed to do it.
(30:56):
And they're going to stay to that.
They're going to stick to that schedule.
They're going to be very focused on gettingthat work done.
And they're able to be very detailed workersbecause they hyper-fixate on every detail of
what you want.
So we see a lot of them in software developmentand coding and a lot of work that for a lot of
(31:17):
us is like, how did you do 15,000 lines in oneday of coding?
And they're like, I just did it.
And it's easy for them, and it's enjoyable forthem to do that.
Whereas, you know, me, I'm like, no, I know howto read coding.
I know how to do those things because I neededto know it to be able to speak to them.
(31:41):
But I couldn't do it to save my life.
You're like, hey, Shane, you will die if you donot hack the system.
Like, cool.
Let's go.
I'm done.
Peace.
You know, it's just like, you have tounderstand that we really focus on our
strengths, but we also have to understand, likeI said earlier, where those weaknesses are and
(32:03):
how we develop systems and put them in placefor those people to sit here and enjoy doing
what they do.
And the other stuff still gets done.
And that means having other people who are likepersonal assistants or virtual assistants or
body doubling, like I said earlier.
And it's all about teaching the leadership thatand then developing that culture throughout the
environment of the entire business.
(32:24):
And then you start to understand the importanceof neurodiversity, which is the overarching
understanding that different brains workdifferently, and that's okay.
How did you decide that this was your avenue inwhich to be able to develop people?
I didn't want people going through what Ithrough.
You know, earlier, I kind of talked about ittook five years to get a diagnosis, you know,
(32:48):
and it's because I didn't know.
I didn't have an education in it.
And even then it took another two years for meto get my autism diagnosis.
And that was because I went through all thedifferent stuff that people with ADHD are
supposed to do to manage their ADHD.
And I was still having so much social anxietyand struggles with doing different things like
(33:08):
that.
And I love being on the stage.
I love speaking in front of people, but mysocial anxiety was so bad.
And I had these weird tics and I would just doall these different things.
And I was always just there was something elsegoing on.
My therapist was like, let's do this test andkind of go through it.
(33:30):
And I just want you to just be really naturaland react how you want to react and all these
different things.
And so the more that I did that, the more Istarted noticing all these different patterns
that were coming up in the test.
And she said, I'm fairly certain you'reautistic.
And this is what that means.
And
when I started looking at all of the differentstruggles that I had had in work, because my
(33:55):
bosses would get on to me about not lookingthem in the eye or constantly fidgeting or not
being able to sit still or not being able tostay attentive during meetings.
And all of these different issues that I hadstruggled with, all of my professional career
and personal life and in all my relationships,the more I wanted to advocate and start really
(34:19):
working with people to educate them on that.
And of course, there's another component toADHD and autism is a social justice issue.
We thrive in social justice.
We cannot let go of those issues when we findthe issue that we're passionate about.
And when we do find those issues that we arepassionate about, we will go hardcore into
(34:42):
them.
And I did.
I started working with the Men's ADHD SupportGroup, which is a nonprofit that was developed
by Mark Almodovar and myself in 2022.
We developed the nonprofit into what it istoday.
We have a Facebook group of over 19,000 peoplenow.
We started developing weekly programs forpeople to be able to go to, to get help on
(35:05):
specific subjects.
We created a blog.
I started working with Michael Ruffin, who isthe founder of Dueling Minds, which is an ADHD
support group and a nonprofit now.
We started developing systems for people whowere dealing with ADHD, which is autism ADHD
dual diagnosis, because a lot of people don'treally know that that's a thing, even though
there is such a huge crossover between the twoissues.
(35:29):
And I really started working at theInternational ADHD Conference, which is a joint
venture between CHADD, ADDA, and ACO, three ofthe top ADHD organizations in the world for
ADHD advocacy.
And, you know, I just jumped full-fledged rightinto everything.
And so now not only do I do the work that I doprofessionally for Creating Order From Chaos,
(35:51):
I'm also involved in all these other venturesand really being a part of the change that's
being made.
And I'm thriving and I'm enjoying it.
And I have to balance that by being astay-at-home father and being a responsible
husband as well with twin five-year-olds whoare both kind of sitting on the different areas
of the spectrum.
(36:12):
So that was my next question actually, is howdo you balance your home-work life when you, I
mean, you have, you obviously shine.
It keeps, I feel it in just the way when you'respeaking, you could feel your passion just
start to ignite even more and more.
So, but how do you then balance that now thatyou have found all these amazing things that
(36:32):
you can make a difference in and you'repassionate about it, but then how do you
balance the home life with that?
A lot of communication, a lot of making surelike my wife is my soulmate.
Like she and I connected at such a fundamentallevel so early on.
She understood a lot of the issues that I wasdealing with, and she really empowered me to be
(36:55):
able to sit here and feel safe enough to go toher.
Even with the trauma of my first marriage,right, she would listen to me, and she would
identify with me, and obviously working with atherapist constantly, those issues that I
struggled with and the trauma that I struggledwith.
And she would go out of her way not to triggerthe living crap out of me.
(37:17):
And we would have these conversations that alot of people are really honestly not
comfortable having in a lot of relationships.
But she made me feel safe enough to have thoseconversations.
And it developed a different dynamic inrelationships that I had never developed
before.
And she made it so that I really thrive in thislong-term relationship.
(37:40):
A) She's never been boring, which has been abig struggle that I had from relationships
before.
She's always really pushed me to be better, butnot just in professional life, but personally
speaking.
And as a father, she's really pushed myboundaries in ways that really focused again on
my strengths.
What am I strong at?
(38:02):
And how do we deal with those different issues?
Like in 2018, literally at the lowest time ofmy life, I was dealing with fibromyalgia, which
is a crippling nerve disorder.
And I was burning out really significantly fromwork.
And I just became bedridden for the most partof 2018.
(38:23):
I had to retire from the corporate world.
And I had to rebuild myself in 2019 at the sametime that my wife was pregnant with our child.
And throughout the pregnancy, while I was beingas much of a support to her, she was being a
support to me because I was having room torebuild and she goes, look, you're going to be
(38:44):
a great father.
And here's the thing.
I could be the provider, and you can be thestay-at-home father.
And I'm good with that.
I think that that's amazing.
I think you're going to be a great stay-at-homefather.
Let's focus on that.
And in the meantime, let's rebuild things.
Here's my expectation.
You're already bringing in $1,600 to $1,800 amonth by being a stay-at-home father and not
(39:08):
having to deal with daycare for twins.
Okay.
Well, all right.
Well, that's not something I had thought about.
Right.
We would have had to pay that.
And she's like, let's see how many hours thatyou can work healthily.
What does that look like?
Right?
Let's develop that.
But heal first.
And she was really big on healing.
(39:28):
Heal.
Just like you have to let a broken bone healover time, you know, and not walk around on a
broken leg or not keep trying to use the arm,or else you'll tear it.
Burnout requires healing.
And I had to take that time.
But in the meantime, I had enough to be able todo 10 to 20 hours of work a week.
All right.
What does that look like?
All right.
Well, I can do that in development.
(39:49):
Let me work with an ADHD coach who understandsADHD.
Let's work on what that business can look like.
All right.
Cool.
You can do a little bit of project management,but what about coaching people?
All right, cool.
What does that look like?
Can I make that much money?
And she was like, how much are you paying me?
You know, I'm like, oh, okay.
Well, yeah, you know, now that you mentionedit, you know, and really developing an
(40:12):
understanding of what my skill sets were andhow to apply them in my life, but also paying
attention to, can only work 10 to 20 hours aweek.
All right, cool.
How do I get to a place where I can work more?
All right, cool.
Slowly.
That's how you can.
And then developing the systems that I neededgave me the basis for what I can do for other
(40:33):
people by helping them.
Not because my system works.
There's a popular saying out there.
When you meet one person with ADHD or autism,you've met one person with ADHD or autism
because so much of their different things.
These are both spectrum issues.
And so they're going to deal with a thousanddifferent combinations of struggles and
strengths.
And you have to acknowledge that and you haveto find the systems that work for each one of
(40:57):
them.
And so I go into your chaos and I help youcreate order from it, but it's going to be your
chaos and it's going to be your order, not a10-step system that's going to work for every
single person with ADHD and autism.
Those don't exist, and anybody who says so,they're lying to you.
I'm going to be blunt about that.
There's not a single system that works.
(41:19):
You have to develop an individual system.
That's one of the reasons why I don't really dogroup coaching very much.
I do group coaching in the realm of educatingpeople on ADHD and autism.
I do group systems where I'm kind of givingpeople a very basic understanding of a specific
struggle that many of them deal with.
But very often, you cannot really do a lot ofreally successful group coaching, even though
(41:40):
there's a lot of them out there, and Iacknowledge that y'all are out there.
But for true success for a person with ADHD orautism or both, it really needs to be
individual systems that they are able to put inplace themselves.
And that takes working with them and helpingwith accountability and helping them one-on-one
in many cases or very, very small groups, twoto three max.
(42:02):
Give me an example of two to three things thatwould be a clue that you're someone who has
some of
the struggles that he, you know, if you haveADHD or autism,
what would be two to three clues?
Oh my gosh.
Two to three.
You know, there's nine criteria for ADHDhyperactivity and nine for inattentive.
(42:24):
So let's see what's some clues.
Let's do systemic clues.
Let's do large scale.
If you find yourself working in a position andgetting bored after six months of working
there, and you're consistently starting to getoverwhelmed and burned out because your boss is
asking you to do a hundred things because youwere successful at ten.
Right.
(42:45):
But those other things are just really boring,and it's driving you insane.
Good sign.
Let's go ahead and talk about what that lookslike.
Let's explore.
If the same thing's happening to you inrelationships where you get into a relationship
and after six to eight months, you're justkinda like, you are just, it's annoying that
you breathe around me.
Like and you but you, you know, we're supposedto stay in successful relationships that are
(43:09):
lasting for 50 years.
That's what the definition of a successfulrelationship is.
But this person's boring you to death, youknow.
If you find that you're having to constantlymask who you feel you really are just to fit in
with essentially the entirety of the societyaround you because you were dealing with being
(43:32):
made fun of, or people thought you were weird,or people really thought you were like overly
creepy, or all of these different stereotypesthat are out there.
You know, you're probably dealing with somesort of neurodivergence, maybe not ADHD, maybe
not autism, but you should be talking to yourdoctor anyway.
You should be working with your doctors andyour therapists and developing an understanding
(43:55):
of who you are, especially if you're reallyinto self-help and you're really wanting to
develop who you are.
You need to work with the professionals whorecognize these things, and you really have to
get a better grasp of who you really are.
Regardless of if you're neurotypical orneurodivergent, you really have to have that
grasp of who you are, your strengths, yourweaknesses, and develop systems that work
(44:18):
successfully for you.
And sometimes if you find all those self-helpbooks that are built for neurotypical people
have these solutions that are in place for youin that realm, and none of them seem to work
for you because they're inane or stupid orboring or just don't fit.
Well, a lot of those self-help books aredesigned for people who are neurotypical and
(44:39):
you're not a neurotypical person.
So if you're finding yourself really strugglingwith self-improvement because the books that
you see on your advertisements keep coming indon't fit you, start to look in neurodivergence
and find out where you fit.
So who would be your ideal client avatar?
If you find yourself as a serial entrepreneurthat has multiple different businesses, you
(45:01):
might have ADHD.
I feel like Jeff Foxworthy just now.
My ideal clients, let's just do my three.
My ideal clients are people who are eitherfairly aware that they have ADHD and autism and
are really on the path to try to start reallydeveloping who they are professionally
speaking.
You know, I do have my lower tiers where I walkpeople through the very beginning and stuff
(45:24):
like that.
But my focus right now is entrepreneurs whohave discovered that they have ADHD or autism
or both, and they're really wanting to developtheir business successfully, sustainably, and
need help getting that concept out there.
My other ideal clients are business owners orbusiness managers who know that they have a
(45:45):
really strong presence of neurodivergent peoplein their field.
So tech, game companies, medical professionals.
We thrive in the ER departments, by the way.
Firemen, police officers, a lot of us are inthose realms.
I would love to see the demographics of ADHDand autism in the military.
A lot of candidates who are in these positions,sales is a huge one for people with ADHD, these
(46:11):
really dynamic, fast-paced employees, or, youknow, businesses.
A lot of your neurodivergent people are goingto find themselves navigating into those
realms.
And those are, you know, those people, thoseleaders need to understand how to give those
employees the success that they need.
And that's another ideal client for me is thosesmaller businesses or mid-level businesses that
(46:32):
are really developing that system.
Shane, I'm going to tell you, I've learned somuch and it's so crazy as we have this
conversation.
I'm, you know, I have all these people thatcome to mind that throughout my life, just
things that were just different.
I mean, so many of them have so muchbrilliance, but then there was always that,
that place where there wasn't that like thenorm, the world considers norm, you know, to
(46:57):
fit in.
But I feel that there are more and moreneurodivergent people in the world now that
there's more awareness, maybe that's what itis.
And, but I, but I've always seen the brilliancein the neurodivergent because now that I
understand that a little more clearly, I amunderstanding where their brilliance could have
(47:18):
shined even further.
So with that, I just yeah.
I'm wanting to reach out now to some of thesepeople, but even people in my own life now, I
just feel like there are there's just I've andI've always said that.
I've always said you have this brilliance.
There's just I mean, it's just your brain justthinks different, but it's that what's what
(47:39):
makes it all so amazing, right?
So what I wanna ask you is if people who haveresonated with our podcast today who have, you
know, just said, man, I just wanna reach out.
I wanna know more.
I want you know, to work with this guy.
So how do they reach Shane?
What what would they do?
And what's the best way in which to seek youout?
Honestly, reaching out to my website, CreatingOrder from Chaos.
(48:03):
I've actually got a freebie in there.
That's a personal freebie.
If you go to my home and it's a drop-down, it'sin there.
But if you sign up for my email list, you'regonna get access to it immediately.
You know, that's the first step.
You know, come check that out.
Go there.
I've got a lot of blogs that are there that aregoing to really highlight and help you
understand that, not just in careers, but alsoas parents.
That's a new kick I'm on right now.
(48:24):
And really start to delve into that and get abetter understanding through the education
resources that I have there.
And, you know, but you can always reach me atshane@creatingorderfromchaos.com.
Set up a talk with me.
Let's have a conversation about it.
Let's delve into it because I guarantee after45 minutes with me, you're going to walk away
with some solutions that you didn't even thinkof.
(48:44):
Wow.
Wow.
And you know what?
They are the brilliant minds of the world too.
So I, you know, and I've just, I've seen it andI, now that I understand it, I'm like, wow,
that's why they are so powerful in that areathat most, you know, most people are like,
wouldn't even think that way.
And it's just like, that's brilliant.
(49:05):
And yeah.
Anyway, I am so glad that we had thisconversation.
I am excited to actually put this out there andjust have the world know more about you, about
what you offer.
So I want to thank you for this time together.
Thank you for having me on.
I really appreciate it.
Welcome.
I really hope that everybody, neurotypical andneurodivergent alike, really walks away with
(49:28):
this with the understanding that acceptance isreally going to be key to giving everyone
around yourself the ability to be who they areand be happy.
I love it.
I love it.
Thank you once again.
And to our audience, thank you so much for justsharing this time with us.
This is Katherine, your host with The BeyondBusiness Podcast, and excited to have had Shane
(49:49):
with us here today just explaining all of thisand unfolding.
So please reach out.
Thank you again.
Well, if you made it to this point, then youmade it to the end, and you are my star.
And I just want to thank you from the bottom ofmy heart.
I hope that you enjoyed the conversation withtoday's guest.
(50:09):
And if you did, please leave us a review onApple Podcasts and Spotify and share this
episode with others who may be interested inthis topic.
Also, please feel free to let us know whattopics you'd like to see covered in future
episodes.
Get in touch in the comments or on RocketGrowth's social media platforms to have
(50:31):
conversations with me.
My booking link is in the comments.
See you next week for an all-new episode.
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