Plastics, Missions, and Demons: One Man’s Deliverance Journey and Real Encounters with Evil

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Episode 3 of the Blind Exorcist podcast.
I'm Justin D, your host.
Thank you for listening.
Don't forget to join orsubscribe to the podcast and
share it out to your family,friends and on social media.
Bill West he's the presidentand founder of West Extrusion.

(00:22):
He's the president and founderof West Extrusion.
This is a plastics processingcompany.
He's owned and operated thecompany for 11 years.
In 1999, he graduated fromHighline College with a Bachelor
of Arts in Japanese.
He's been married for 21 yearsto his wife, yukari, and they

(00:44):
together have two children.
He's been a Christianmissionary for the past 30 years
and he's went on short missiontrips to Mexico, japan, china
and the Philippines.
Bill, thanks for taking thetime to come on to the podcast
today and hang out with us andtalk about demons.

(01:04):
Welcome to the Blind Exorcist.
It's okay to speak.

Speaker 2 (01:14):
Are you sure?
Yes.
Am I allowed to breathe?

Speaker 1 (01:16):
Yes, not too close though to that mic, because they
don't have to edit it out.

Speaker 2 (01:24):
I thought maybe you'd have to disinfect it.
Yeah Well, though, to that mic,because they don't have to edit
it out.

Speaker 1 (01:26):
Thought maybe you'd have to disinfect it.
Yeah Well, guys, definitelyJust throw out the mic cover and
buy a new one.

Speaker 2 (01:32):
Just get rid of it.
Yeah, that's right, buy a caseof them.

Speaker 1 (01:37):
Guys, this is Bill and a personal friend of mine.
So excited he is here.
Wow, does he have a story?
Hello everybody, and there's myum I'm going to edit out.

Speaker 2 (01:51):
I'm not allowed to say um, nope, we should have a
jar on the middle of the tablethat you have to put a dollar in
Every time you say um, andwhoever says it less gets to
have all the money.

Speaker 1 (02:02):
Yeah, it's not gambling, it's just paying.
Yeah, but you would walk outhere very rich.

Speaker 2 (02:07):
Because I'm Mr Disciplinarian.

Speaker 1 (02:11):
Anyhow, I was trying to say that this is Bill.
This is Bill with the prettypink shirt.
If you've not listened toepisode one, when this one's
finished, go over there andlisten to episode one.
This is Bill.

Speaker 2 (02:27):
My pretty pink shirt will make the hair stand up on
the back of your neck.

Speaker 1 (02:32):
That's right.
So you own a plastics company,so let's talk about that a
little bit.
So what is this?
Are you recycling?
You know, milk containers,yogurt containers what is this?

Speaker 2 (02:49):
Well, sometimes we use recycled materials, like
just recently I bought, you know, half a truckload of ground up
vinyl siding and we turned itinto something that we sold to
one of the biggest boatmanufacturers in the country.
But most of the time it's notthat, but what we do is, you

(03:09):
know.
Here's how I like to explain it.
If you remember those littlePlay-Doh machines where it had a
crank on top, yeah.
And you had a little, maybe oneinch or inch and a half square
little shape and you put it inthe front of it and then you
push this play-doh down andsqueeze it out in the shape of a

(03:29):
star or the moon or whatever.

Speaker 1 (03:31):
Yeah, that is extrusion all occultic, and
that's star in the moon that'swhat was a star david, anyhow
sorry dude, sorry, sorry man,it's okay.
So yeah, you're, you're pushingout Play-Doh, it's coming out,
this little template that youput on the front, that's exactly
right, and that's what we dowith plastic.

Speaker 2 (03:49):
Only we don't push it through with a crank so much,
but we do heat it up, you know350 degrees or something,
whatever the melting point ofplastic is, and sort of anyway
and we push it out.
The machine.
We make a metal one, not alittle plastic die, that's
called a die, and you or a mold,but it's called a die you stick

(04:10):
it on the front of the machineand it comes out in a constant
stream.
So in the case of play-doh youhave to keep reloading it.
We don't do that, we just keepa big hopper on top, which is a
big container how does that thencool, when it comes?
out, it comes out and it goesinto a water bath tank.
That's probably.
They're usually for us.
They're typically, you know,like maybe 12 feet long.

(04:31):
I do have a 20 footer.

Speaker 1 (04:33):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (04:33):
And it goes into this water bath and it's it, and it
cools there.
So it, it shocks into place andit, when it comes out, it's
melted plastic.
So it doesn't just come out inthat perfect, you know that
perfect shape like Play-Doh did.
It comes out and it's kind ofit's falling all over the place
because it's liquid.

(04:54):
It's not as liquid as water,but you know it's liquid, almost
like to the liquidity of slime,which everybody knows Slime
it's not even that liquid, butyou pull it into the water.
You actually have to grab itwith your bare hands it's the
only way to effectively do thisand you pull it down and then

(05:15):
there's a little conveyor thatit goes on and it keeps it at a
constant speed because, if youcould picture like a rubber band
, the more you stretch it, thesmaller it gets.
It maintains the same shape.
It's just small.
Yeah.
Same principle with plastic.
So if you keep this machinepushing at the same speed and

(05:35):
the conveyor pulling at the samespeed, then you'll maintain a
size.

Speaker 1 (05:40):
So that's what we do.

Speaker 2 (05:41):
And then it gets cut up into strips or put on rolls.

Speaker 1 (05:44):
So what are you making then?
I mean, I get the manufacturingof this plastic widget.
What is this widget Like?
What are you selling and to whoand to what?

Speaker 2 (05:53):
So a lot of times, well, we.
So you mentioned a boat, yeahright, so that is just maybe a
little bit too complicated of athing, but that would go on the
underside of a boat like apontoon boat.

Speaker 1 (06:07):
Okay, in the corners, where where the plywood floor
meets meets the the frame okay,and so this is a plastic part
that you've made for these typesof boats and you stick it in
the corner and when, and itkeeps water from splashing up
through the floor and gettingyour feet all wet.

Speaker 2 (06:22):
Okay, it's very functional.
You never see the thing.
Yeah, probably most people thatown a pontoon boat don't even
know they're there.
All they know is that theirfeet are not getting wet.

Speaker 1 (06:31):
Right.

Speaker 2 (06:36):
So you're profiting off of wet feet, is what you're
telling me?

Speaker 1 (06:40):
No, I'm profiting off of supplying dry feet, john, I
guess it's a matter ofperspective.

Speaker 2 (06:44):
That's right, so you know.
But a place that people mightsee it often something like we
make is sometimes when you see alittle plastic edge on the
table or if you see the plastic,big plastic bumper along a wall
or let's say, especially alongthe cash register, it looks like

(07:07):
a big black stripe or a big redstripe, whatever the branding
of the company is, and that isjust to keep you know the buggy
from scratching, getting youknow scratching up the wall or
whatever interesting and that'smade there so you would see
plastic there.
You'd see it on the edge of atable.

Speaker 1 (07:25):
I got you, yeah, when I could see.
See, I remember seeing theplastic around the table folding
tables.
You could feel it on the edgeof the table.

Speaker 2 (07:33):
Yeah, and so people do so.
Most of it, most of what wesell, goes into the RV industry.
So if you've seen anything madeby Thor Motor Coach, our stuff
is in there, and what we do forthem is we decorate it.

Speaker 1 (07:50):
So they give me a paneling and we put Now, when
you say paneling, is this awooden paneling that they're
putting in?

Speaker 2 (07:54):
this RV.
Yes, sir, like paneling, likethat you would.
Even a long time ago, thepeople used to do their
basements with it, got it?
And in between the seams of allthose things, we give them a
seamless treatment where we havea plastic molding that may be
shaped like an H, and you slidethese pieces of paneling in
together.
So, now you're covering the seam, you only see one side of it.

(08:14):
Got it and we will match whatthe wood grain on that paneling
is exactly on the plastic, sothat it you know.
So that's all you see.

Speaker 1 (08:25):
So I'm assuming you manufacture, how do you
transport this stuff Very?

Speaker 2 (08:28):
glamorous.

Speaker 1 (08:32):
Whoa, whoa, whoa, wait, wait, wait.
An RV right for a nice one, iswhat?
Five $600,000?

Speaker 2 (08:38):
So I mean Well it just depends on you know really
how big of one you want to get.
You know, so you can get onethat is about the size of, let's
say, a shuttle bus.
Yeah, all right, so thoseprobably retail maybe around 100
grand, okay, you know.
And they keep making them, andmaking them, and making them and

(08:59):
you would think, well, who'sgot 100, 120,000 on an
entry-level product, right, butthey lend money out on a length
of time, like a mortgage, so youcan be paying on your RV for 20
years, so maybe you only have a$100 payment or $75.
Yeah, you know, so that's howthey.

Speaker 1 (09:19):
But I mean there are.
I mean I remember me and mywife were shopping for one.
And I mean dude, I mean thesewere like flat screen TVs coming
down out of the ceiling.

Speaker 2 (09:27):
Oh, those are half a million bucks.
Yeah, that's what I'm talkingabout, like we were in those.

Speaker 1 (09:32):
So I mean they.
You know to your point that.
You know it's not necessarilyluxury, but it is based on how
much you want to pay.

Speaker 2 (09:40):
Yeah, you can get anything in life probably to be
luxury, but so you know there'sa company out there.
I guess I don't sell anythingto them, so I get nothing out of
plugging a Newmar RV, but ifyou ever see a Newmar, oh my
goodness You're talking.
So who's going to buy one ofthese things?
A rock star?
They're traveling the countryyou know, yeah, yeah.

(10:05):
We're talking big diesel buseswith hardwood in it, and even
some of the ones that I'm sayingthat you can get for, say,
$100,000, $80,000 to $120,000,they've got flat screen TVs in
them, they've got remote windowblinds that you can close with a
remote control.
They have everything that youcould ever possibly want in this

(10:26):
thing Right.
And some of them have them onthe outside where it looks like
a luggage door, and you unlockit and it has a hinge in the
middle.
You just flip it around and now, all of a sudden, you're
outside with the campfirewatching TV.

Speaker 1 (10:40):
Oh, so it's a flat screen TV that just swivels out.
Yeah, that's slick dude.
Change a topic.

Speaker 2 (10:52):
We can try.
How dare you?

Speaker 1 (10:57):
You have a degree in Japanese?
Yeah, why?
That's right, explain to me andthe folks what drew you to get
a degree in Japanese.
Because I mean, obviouslyyou're a business owner, right,
you own and operate thisbusiness.
I thought you would have wentfor a business degree and you
didn't.

Speaker 2 (11:17):
Right, what's up with that?
Well, I never intended to be inbusiness in my entire life,
ironically.

Speaker 1 (11:24):
Well, I mean, that's apparent.
I'm kidding.

Speaker 2 (11:28):
No, really I never intended to be in business.
Wow, that's a long story,justin, are you?

Speaker 1 (11:34):
prepared to go there, yet let's just I mean just out
of strict curiosity and I'm surepeople are wondering this as
well Like why?

Speaker 2 (11:44):
I've always been at least attracted to Asian
cultures, even some of myfavorite classes.
You know, one of my favoriteclasses in college was history
of Asian civilizations, and justI always was.
I really liked theirarchitecture.
I like I mean there's so manythings painting styles.

Speaker 1 (12:05):
So you were fascinated with the culture.

Speaker 2 (12:07):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (12:08):
Even like when did this fascination start?

Speaker 2 (12:11):
Well, I never really like, you know, was.
I wasn't that kid that waswalking around and his whole
life was all about you know howcan I get more of this?
I grew up in a time, I think,where nobody was being
introspective and nobody wasreally at least in my life

(12:32):
nobody was looking at what kindof things is he interested in?
Right, and that's just howgrowing up in the 70s was.

Speaker 1 (12:43):
You know, you got your marijuana.

Speaker 2 (12:46):
Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 1 (12:53):
Point taken.
You know you're not veryintrospective.
No one was really during thattime.
They may have thought they were, you know, because of the trips
and everything they're going ondrugs and stuff.
But so you're into thisJapanese culture.

Speaker 2 (13:06):
I would say just as a matter of taste yeah, but you
had mentioned in your intro thatyou had done various missionary
projects.
Yeah, exactly, became aChristian and was baptized.
I was asking God and praying,what should I do with my life?

(13:27):
Because we didn't touch on anyof this yet.
Maybe we will later.
But I completely wrecked it andwas at the point in my life
where I was like, okay, how oldwere you at this point, 25.
Okay, and I was saying, cryingout to God, saying, okay, it's
apparent between you and I thatI do not have Life skills.

(13:50):
I don't have what it takes tomake good decisions for my own
life and pick a direction.
Because the direction I waspicking was let's be on the
wrong side of Miami Vice.

Speaker 1 (14:08):
Another way of saying it boy, let's, yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 (14:12):
So you know so, but so so you're making mistakes.

Speaker 1 (14:17):
You're a young man, you know, and at 25, all of a
sudden, you're like man.
This something's got to changehere.

Speaker 2 (14:22):
Right.
So I'm asking God what do youwant me to do with my life, then
?
Because I have no idea.
Up until that point I thought Ihad picked a direction and I
thought, by 25, I thought that Ishould be playing to crowds of,
you know, 15,000, 20,000.

Speaker 1 (14:39):
You were a musician.

Speaker 2 (14:41):
In music, yeah, that's right.
So as a bass player in the 80s,you know glam, metal, big hair,
you know any ladies out therelistening, I guarantee you my
hair was bigger than yours in1987.
Silly as it is, but I mean, butthat was just a look for like
an occupation, sure, patient, sobut that's, that's what I

(15:03):
wanted, and that that that wholelifestyle just led me into a
series of horrible, just ahorrible lifestyle that that
really I picked.
But that's another long story,but let me finish this one I
started to.
It's funny, I let's see, onNovember 3rd just passed, what

(15:24):
is it?
The 6th today?

Speaker 1 (15:25):
7th, 8th, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (15:27):
I don't know either.
November 3rd, which was just acouple of days ago, was my born
again birthday.
I am a 30 year old man, I amnot 55.
I don't care what anybody says,I'm 30.
I'm 30, baby, and I rememberthat 30 years ago, sunday
morning about 1120 at VictoryAssembly, I could take you to

(15:50):
the place where my feet werestanding when I said yes to God
and I said but in my heart Isaid this.
I said I know I'm going to givemy life to you, or that's what I
said.
I know what I'm supposed to do,I'm going to live my life right
from here out, but I will notbecome a priest.

(16:11):
Because that was my perception,being raised Roman Catholic.
I thought if you're going togive your life to God, that's
what you, automatically you're apriest or not.
That's just what I thought wasthe deal, and so I remember
letting the Lord know thatthat's, I guess, that's my
condition.
And the other part is under nocircumstances and these are the

(16:36):
exact thoughts Under nocircumstances will I ever leave
this country as a missionary.
So don't ever tell God whatyou're not going to do.
And he just has a way, and it'snot a fist-slamming beating his
shoe on the table.
I'm going to punish you until Ibend your will to my way.

Speaker 1 (16:57):
Right, right, Because I mean obviously that's not
love, that's domination andmanipulation.

Speaker 2 (17:02):
But isn't that the God that most at least Americans
are in Western civilization?
Grow up, that's theirperspective.

Speaker 1 (17:08):
A lot of times, yeah, very authoritative and firm and
you're crawling on your knees.

Speaker 2 (17:14):
Unwielding, unwielding.
And I think that the enemy thatwe do have loves to capitalize
on that idea and make your lifedifficult and point at him and
say look, he's doing this, andhe's because he's mad at you
because you wouldn't, becauseyou said, because you did.

Speaker 1 (17:35):
Yeah, the accuser of the brother.

Speaker 2 (17:36):
But what really happened is that I delighted
myself in God, in my newrelationship with him, in
reading his and reading aboutHim and researching Him in every
way that I can, and he gave methe desires of my heart, which
meant he started to reveal, hestarted to create in my own
heart.
Suddenly, I wanted to, I wantedto do this.

(17:58):
Suddenly, I felt drawn to youknow, to whatever, but the weird
thing was no wait a minute.

Speaker 1 (18:06):
Wait a minute, let me pause.
You here.
Drawn toward at this point, isit this?
Is you're being drawn towardJapanese culture?

Speaker 2 (18:12):
No, I'm being drawn toward and a person will be
drawn toward God's will fortheir life and they'll want to
do it, not necessarily voicesout of the sky saying, son, go
to the mission field, yeah.

Speaker 1 (18:25):
But so you're being drawn, you think, to missions,
and you just didn't know it atthis point.

Speaker 2 (18:31):
Actually well.
So I remember I had told Godwhat I'm not doing.
Yeah.
I'm under no circumstances.
Yeah.
I'm not doing that.
About a year later at thatchurch they were having.
You know the assemblies of Godhas missions week.
Probably a lot of denominationshave missions week right.
So or month Actually not week,but month and so they'd have a

(18:54):
missionary come in on everySunday and talk about where they
were from, what they do, blah,blah, blah.
They show you pictures ofpeople that they're helping and
stuff like that.
My idea of what.
Remember I already had told youI had a bad, bad, oh, I said oh
my yes, I think we're tied.

Speaker 1 (19:16):
I think we're tied.

Speaker 2 (19:19):
What I, what?
My perception of what it meantto be a Christian was wrong.
What it meant to what God wouldbe like was wrong.
My impression of a missionarywas Africa, dark hut, no
electricity.
Which sometimes is for somepeople, and the kicker spiders

(19:42):
Right, I don't care about thesnakes, but spiders, spiders
Right, I don't care about thesnakes, but spiders yeah.

Speaker 1 (19:47):
You wouldn't do good on Survivor because they eat
them.
Tarantulas, no, no, I could doit, because I can't see it.

Speaker 2 (19:55):
You would eat a spider.
Nobody eats spiders bro.

Speaker 1 (19:58):
Oh yeah, they do.
On Survivor all the time.
I'm binge-watching it with Nick.

Speaker 2 (20:02):
Shut it, shut it, don't even talk about that.
So, but I really I do know thatthe Lord had to bring me to a
point where I said all right,even if it is that.

Speaker 1 (20:17):
I'll do it for you.
I relate because of exorcism.

Speaker 2 (20:28):
And so he never really said, and I didn't feel
any leading at all toward acertain direction or place or
people.
Until I said, and I rememberthe day, there's a local pastor.
She was a local missionary fromthe area but felt called back
here as a missionary and she wasspeaking, but she was showing
slideshows and she was the lastperson out of that month and

(20:49):
little by little, each preacherwould come and show me the
people that they were helpingand the Lord was just really
cracking that shell on my heartwhere I was still hard toward
I'm not doing this my way.
And I, I just I still.
I could still see the face ofthis little chinese boy sitting

(21:09):
on a stoop.
You know, I could still see hisface 39 years later and I said,
okay, I'll do whatever you want, I'll go wherever you want me
to go.
I don't care if spiders in ahut, I'll smash them, I don't
don't care.
Yeah, and not over the course ofa few months.

(21:29):
He just started to revealsomething to me and it was Asia
and Japan, so it didn't make metry to go somewhere where I was
going to be so thoroughlyuncomfortable and Suffering,
suffering.
Yeah, right to go somewherewhere.
I was going to be so thoroughlyuncomfortable and suffering
suffering right, suffering thatthat that nobody would in their
right mind would ever want to gothere.

Speaker 1 (21:57):
I think people that go there want to go there
Exactly Anyone that I've met.
You know.
I know a missionary local herethat goes to Africa all the time
.
Right, he absolutely loves itand I mean he is deep into
Africa, it's not, you know, he'sinto the huts and everything
else and you know that's histhing and he loves it.

Speaker 2 (22:12):
So if you remember, I said that I've always kind of
been attracted to Asian things.
Yeah.
My wife is going to be likeyeah, including women probably.

Speaker 1 (22:22):
That's right.
Your wife is Japanese, right,so by the way, her name's very.
That's right.
Your wife is Japanese, right?
By the way, her name is verypretty, yukari.
I like that.

Speaker 2 (22:28):
Yeah, very pretty, very pretty.
So that's kind of it.

Speaker 1 (22:34):
I mean, that's skating around a whole lot of
things, but that's how— so thisis how you wound up out in
Seattle eventually, EventuallyGoing for your degree in
Japanese.

Speaker 2 (22:48):
Yeah, that's right.
There's so much stuff inbetween there dude.

Speaker 1 (22:51):
Oh, I can only imagine.
I can only imagine, I can't.
Even so, you obviously learnedsome level of Japanese, the
language to it you know to beover there.

Speaker 2 (23:05):
I did some self-taught.
I didn't want to go there, noteven knowing how to say hello,
how are you?
So I went to the bookstore,bought some cassette tapes.
At the time CDs were not outyet, I don't think.
They might've been but-.
So this is in the earlynineties, this is 1992-ish, and
I just started learning Japaneselanguage.
And then when I went there, Itook Japanese lessons Monday

(23:31):
through Thursday, 8 in themorning till noon, every week
for a year.
So as I was Wow, so I could, soI got to be quite fluent.
So I got to be quite fluent.
I'm not going to say, you know,I'm certainly I can't talk
about the intricacies of plasticextrusion with anybody in that
industry there.

(23:51):
But if you and.
I went there right now, justjumped on a plane, jumped off in
Tokyo.
I could take us wherever weneed to go.

Speaker 1 (23:58):
That's good, that's good to know.
I said I didn't want sushi.
I said I want ramen Ramen.

Speaker 2 (24:03):
That's right to know.
I said I didn't want sushi.
I said I want ramen.

Speaker 1 (24:08):
Ramen.
That's right, dude.
You met your wife duringuniversity.

Speaker 2 (24:13):
No, well, yes, that's right.
So I went to the university,though after I came back from
Japan, I had been back here for-.

Speaker 1 (24:20):
So you were over there on a mission trip for a
year.

Speaker 2 (24:23):
Yes, from 1994 to 1995.
Okay, yeah, so I came back here.

Speaker 1 (24:29):
You go out west.

Speaker 2 (24:30):
Right.
She was going to a Christiancollege in Japan all-girls
school and she hated everyminute of it and wanted to come
to America.
So she convinced her parents tolet her come.
I bailed out of that collegeand I thought the Christian
college.

Speaker 1 (24:46):
The Christian college Because again every day.

Speaker 2 (24:49):
I'm required to be there almost all day.
Have to be there Sunday church.
Sunday night in church,wednesday night in church,
friday night in church, and Ithought I'm having no effect on
nobody whatsoever.

Speaker 1 (25:00):
So it wasn't working for you.

Speaker 2 (25:02):
Wasn't working for me , so I went there.
I didn't know what I was goingto go there for except for that.
I thought well, so, as youmentioned, there's so many
Asians there If I go, and I'lljust go study Japanese, but I'll
be able to meet and befriendJapanese students and maybe

(25:23):
become friends with them and beable to share the gospel with
them.
And I'm going to tell you,before I moved there one more
time, I said to God okay, I'llgo to Seattle.
I don't know anybody there,I'll just pick up and go.
I guess he said, and he spokevery clearly to me.
He said Bill, you can stay hereif you want to, but the

(25:46):
fullness of my blessing is therein Seattle.
I didn't know what that meant.
I didn't know that it was meantthat I was going to find my
wife there and I didn't knowthat my children would you know,
20, 25 years later, that Iwould look back and go.
I know exactly what that means.
Yeah, that's my wife and mykids.

(26:06):
Very cool, which you know.
When I was a young man, Ididn't even want kids.
I vowed to never have children.
And.
I'm like my children are thebest, the best part of my life.

Speaker 1 (26:17):
That's awesome.
So you met your wife there Wereyou guys in class together?

Speaker 2 (26:22):
I just was in the cafeteria, first quarter.
I was there.
I was looking for a seatsomewhere to sit.
There was a great big roundtable.
There was nobody there, butthere was a stack of books.
I happened to see aJapanese-American,
japanese-english dictionary onthe top of the stack of books
and it was the table, reallyactually, that did have the most
empty seats.
So I was like, cool, I'll justsit here, yeah.

(26:44):
And then next thing I know,this person shows up, then
another person shows up, andthen another person shows up.
And here I am with all theseJapanese students around me and
I start talking to them.
In Japanese I don't remember.
Okay.
But a little bit later onYukari shows up.
There it is.

Speaker 1 (27:04):
And we were just friends.
Oh, you were friends at first.

Speaker 2 (27:07):
No, we were just friends, we were just like
buddies.
You know, we'd cut up and laughand like me and you'd laugh all
the time because she's veryfunny.

Speaker 1 (27:15):
I mean, that's the best way to start a relationship
.
Is friends right?

Speaker 2 (27:17):
You see exactly who the person is who they are.
Yeah, she gets to see me tooyeah so, but I I did realize at
some point that that it was likea light bulb went off and I
wasn't even with her at the time.
I was, we weren't together whenthis happened.
I was just somewhere else andshe was doing whatever she was
doing and I knew I justsomething went off inside.

(27:40):
I was like, oh, that's my wife,like the light went on it was
like oh wow, that's my wife.

Speaker 1 (27:43):
yeah, okay, so light went on it was like, oh wow,
that's my wife, yeah, okay, soyou guys have been married 21
years right Yep 21 years.
And two beautiful children.

Speaker 2 (27:51):
Yep Awesome.

Speaker 1 (27:52):
Your daughter is in university now.

Speaker 2 (27:55):
Yeah, second year.

Speaker 1 (27:56):
And your son is 14.

Speaker 2 (27:57):
Yep, that's awesome, he'll be studying for his permit
soon yikes yeah very coolthat's cool man so that's how
that ends it up, and that's kindof kind of how that ended up

(28:19):
okay, let's, let's transitionnow and to talking demons,
demonization, the supernatural.

Speaker 1 (28:30):
And before I get into this, I just want to point out
to the listeners does this mansound like somebody that has had
demons?
I mean, I'm looking at himright now and I'm telling you he
got demons.

Speaker 2 (28:45):
Cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs.
Bouncing around like Daffy Duck.
Hang on, hang on.
I got to spin my head aroundand kick some green at you over
there.

Speaker 1 (29:02):
You know.
So I think this is so importantfor people to understand.
I believe that many people aredemon-possessed in life.
They have demons and they don'tknow it, and I think the reason
that they don't know it isbecause it's always painted as

(29:23):
psychological.
And I think it's very commonand it's my intent having this
podcast to bring people on tolet you see that these are,
quote unquote, functional peoplein society that had demons.

Speaker 2 (29:42):
So are you trying to say, yes, that had demons.
So are you trying to say, yes,that?
Excuse me?
I'm trying to say that thatsociety will maybe try to
diagnose somebody with that ishaving issues of some sort, as

(30:03):
it being a psychological issueand not a demonic issue.

Speaker 1 (30:08):
Yes, I think it's very common now and I said this
in another podcast of mine itnever can be 100% psychological,
nor could it be 100% demons.
Exorcism is not a profession,it's a ministry, but it needs to
work in hand with psychologists, psychiatrists and counselors.
Put it this way I was workingwith a counselor right after my

(30:31):
own exorcism and during my timewith him you know I mentioned
that I was studying to become anexorcism and I'm going to get
into this very soon and heshared with me that he had a
client that was demon possessedand he couldn't help him and in

(30:51):
fact, the young man actuallywound up committing suicide.
And this counselor I wasworking with said if I would
have better understoodpossession or known of an
exorcist to help him, this wouldhave not happened.
Yeah.
And this is from a professionallicensed counselor.

(31:14):
You know that was helping meAfter I went through my exorcism
.
I went for counseling for eightmonths because left behind is
dysfunctional pattern thoughtprocesses, you know from having
demons.
Right, I want people tounderstand that you can have
demons and not be aware of it,and I want to show people that

(31:35):
quote unquote normal people canhave demons and that's why
you're here in the studio.

Speaker 2 (31:40):
So what we talked about was that at least in our
culture people have that there'sa, that it's not always just
psychological.
Sometimes it's psychologicaland spiritual and it's not
always just spiritual.
Sometimes it's spiritual andthere's a psychological
component of the entire thing.
Those things need to be marriedback together.

Speaker 1 (32:01):
Exactly, that's my point.
As you know, most Christians inAmerica, canada, australia you
know these types of modernized,quote-unquote Western countries
do not believe that Christianscan have demons, and you used to

(32:25):
be in that camp, correct?
Let's talk about when you werein Japan as a missionary.
Okay, you're over there as amissionary.
You don't believe Christianscan have demons at this point,
correct?

Speaker 2 (32:42):
Yeah, but again, like so many things, I never really
processed it or thought about it.
So it was like a spur of themoment thing and I was like had
to decide thing, and I was likehad to decide.
To me it was just likeunconscionable when I, you know,
I just suddenly, I guess, hadto make a decision as to whether

(33:04):
this was, you know, evenpossible, I never even thought
about whether or not a person,whether Christian or
non-Christian, could have one.

Speaker 1 (33:13):
But you are a Christian, you are a missionary,
correct, you're in Japan.

Speaker 2 (33:17):
I was in Hong Kong, I went to Japan for a year.
During that year, the schoolsystem shuts down one month, the
month of August.
By the way, if you don't likeour education system, think
about only having one month off.
Do you want your children toonly have one month off?
Do you want your children toonly have one month off and have

(33:38):
a bunch of homework?
But anyways, I ended up goingand taking that.
It was supposed to be amissions year, a ministry year.
I did not go into the yearexpecting to have a vacation.
I expected to do something theentire time.
So when I found out that I hadfour to five weeks where nothing

(34:02):
was really going to happen, youknow because, just face it like
you know, missionaries thatlive in another country, that's
their occupation, so they doneed to have vacation, just like
any other minister, that'stheir occupation.
So they do need to have vacation, just like any other minister,
sure, and the Japanese people,the lay people or even pastors,
they need to have a vacation.

(34:22):
So during their vacation, Iwent to yet another country, to
a completely unrelated ministry,and volunteered my month, my
vacation month.

Speaker 1 (34:35):
So you're in Hong Kong.

Speaker 2 (34:36):
In Hong Kong, which is connected, is an island off
of the coast of China, if youdon't know, and it belonged to,
at the time, the United Kingdom.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (34:46):
So you're in this church, over there volunteering.

Speaker 2 (34:49):
Correct.

Speaker 1 (34:51):
And a man is there ministering, and what happened?

Speaker 2 (34:54):
That's right.
So I'm there, correct, and theman is there ministering and
what happened?
That's right, so I'm there.
I'm in a camp where StStephen's Society that's the
name of the ministry there theyhad camp set up for See, this
ministry was really todrug-addicted, homeless, you
know, lifelong prostitutes, maleand female, people that were

(35:16):
just caught up in the gangtriads, life of crime, and
people were.
It was multigenerational.
I mean, I saw really, reallyold grandmas and grandpas there
living in absolute squalor.
And then I saw teenagers alsothat were probably their

(35:36):
grandchildren and they may nothave even known them, but they
were, you know, drug-addictedprostitutes that would get
pregnant and if they didn'tabort then they had a child that
was born into that.
Right.

Speaker 1 (35:49):
Which is I mean we won't talk about.
But the whole concept of theancestral curses.
I mean just passed on fromgeneration to generation.

Speaker 2 (35:56):
But that's on steroids, right there Right.

Speaker 1 (35:58):
And it's amazing how tangible it is, how you can see
it.

Speaker 2 (36:01):
And so I went there to just try to be of some
service.
I just told them.
I said, look, I mean, if youwant me to come over and just
clean bathrooms Before I evengot there I didn't know it was a
hole in the ground If you wantme to come over and clean
bathrooms, whatever you want meto do, I'll just come and do it.
Yeah, I just want to come inand be a part for this one month

(36:24):
.
I don't want to waste it.
I want to give it to you.
So I went, and when I went theyhad a kind of like a conference
yeah, we would call it inAmerica we would call it a
conference and a man fromEngland was there preaching and
talk about dry.

Speaker 1 (36:40):
He had absolutely no emotion whatsoever and it was
just like Sorry guys, we'reAmerican, we're very flamboyant.

Speaker 2 (36:50):
Yeah, like that Daffy Duck, but he was there and he
was preaching and he waspreaching to a bunch of kids
that were.
Some of them were thereprobably because the court
system made them, because theygot busted doing something and
sometimes they would go.
Let them go to this ministry.
That was, as far as thegovernment was concerned, a
rehab, and so, yeah, he wasthere and he was preaching and

(37:15):
he gave.
He was talking about, he wastalking about soul ties and he
was teaching on the soul tie andhe gave as a demonstration he
just had I don't know probablyasked a young lady to come up
and he said he said just as anexample.

Speaker 1 (37:31):
So this guy's on stage giving an example of a
soul tie with a girl.

Speaker 2 (37:37):
Right and a guy, and he then brings up another girl
and he says OK, so let's justsay that she's never slept with
a man other than him, but heslept with her, her and her.
You three come up here.
And then he just continued tobuild upon that by the time he
had like 20 people there and hesays so, if you've become one

(37:59):
flesh now, haven't you allbecome basically one flesh?
So what?
The tie between the originaltwo?
I said he says now she's tiedto these people over here.
She didn't even know them.
Yeah, spiritually, you'respeaking Spiritually, that's
what we're talking about.
And so later on he sent themback to their seats.
But it was just interestingthat he led them in a prayer to

(38:23):
start breaking the soul ties.

Speaker 1 (38:25):
What happened?
Mayhem Absolute mayhem, I said,the devil come out.

Speaker 2 (38:33):
He didn't have to say that.
No, I'm kidding he startedbreaking them soul ties.
The demons went bananas.
I had never actually been inthe presence of an exorcism oh,
I've been in the presence ofdemons but they were content and
happy.
Right, they didn't have to comeout.

(38:55):
They didn't have to come out,they weren't expected to come
out, yeah, yeah, yeah.
And you know, some of them werein the people selling drugs on
the corner and some of them wereon the church boards that I'd
been in.
They were in the pew, butanyways.

Speaker 1 (39:11):
Manifesting all over the place.

Speaker 2 (39:13):
They were puking, spitting screaming, salivating,
all over the place, convulsingon the ground.
Yeah.
And he never, not even for asecond, showed any surprise
shock loss of control.

(39:34):
I'm thinking of this inretrospect and I'm like so did
you know you were gonna do this.

Speaker 1 (39:39):
This group deliverance did you know, I know
I think he did, and so at thispoint just to re, you know,
focus on what the point here isthat that I know where we're at.

Speaker 2 (39:50):
so, yeah, so I'm sitting here and I'm seeing all
this and I'm thinking this iscrazy.
I'm actually kind of borderlineoffended because I know these
people, okay.
So here was like one of themost wonderful experiences in my
entire life as a Christian Inmy entire life as a Christian

(40:13):
bar none was being in that tentwith hundreds of these Chinese
teenagers and young adults andeven old people.

Speaker 1 (40:31):
And to see the level of worship and praise and
exuberance.
So before this these peoplewere worshiping.

Speaker 2 (40:33):
Yeah, Before Like you've never seen before.

Speaker 1 (40:37):
Right, justin, I have to like when I pause when I'm
telling you this.

Speaker 2 (40:40):
I'm pausing so that I don't tear up.

Speaker 1 (40:42):
No, I understand, because I've heard that from
Russia.
Same thing they were worshipingand I bawled like a baby.

Speaker 2 (40:49):
Oh, my goodness, it was the most beautiful worship
I've ever heard, these RussianChristians, man, and I didn't
even know what.
And I had a book.
So I got a songbook and theseare songs that I don't want you
to.
So the music I'm describingthis is all vineyard music, I
think, okay, and so that's thekind of it's contemporary for

(41:10):
the time.
And I did have a songbookContemporary for the time, and I
did have a songbook and it hadall the Chinese characters and
how to say them phonetically.
So I'm singing along and I'mworshiping with them, but I have
no idea what I'm saying, unlessI happen to know the song.
Then I at least had an inkling.
Yeah.
But oh my goodness, if I couldtake every human being and put

(41:33):
them inside of me and experiencethat I just can't even.

Speaker 1 (41:37):
No, I get it, I get it.
I can't describe that so rightafter this these people.

Speaker 2 (41:42):
So right after that, they're spitting and puking and
I'm just like what do I do withthis?
Because these people areChristians, they can't have
demons.
What are they doing?
Get up off of the floor.
At the same time I'm prayingfor them.
I'm like it was like thebiggest conundrum in the world

(42:03):
for me, because I'm like what isgoing on?
And I'm like all right.

Speaker 1 (42:10):
I mean I'm cracking up, but here's the thing.
You couldn't ask for a moreconcise, clear evidence that
Christians can be demonized,correct?
I mean, dude, this is like.
I've never been around anythinglike this.
I know what you're talkingabout.
That type of worship is just so, and I know many listening have

(42:32):
been in that style of worship,where it's just beautiful and
then the next thing you know,boom, all chaos.
So you, that's a lot to process.
How long did it?
Obviously you didn't processthat immediately.
You probably had to thinkthrough this for a few days.

Speaker 2 (42:48):
Well, a few days.
One characteristic of myselfwhich makes me probably a
terrible leader is that I do notprocess well on the spot and I
am the kind of person that goesaway, won't say anything, but
I'll go away with an opinion andthen I will gather as much

(43:09):
information as I can, pour overit, reformulate my opinion if I
have to, or solidify what Ialready think.
And so I bought his book.
I'm like this guy is anabsolute heretic.
There's no way.
This is impossible.
I don't know what I'm lookingat.

(43:29):
I know what I'm saying.
It doesn't make any sense to me, and to the point where I'm
offended, yeah, but at the sametime I'm not offended at those
people, right at all right, butsomehow or another I'm offended
at him for doing this to yourfriends how dare you?

Speaker 1 (43:49):
for making them believe that they had demons.

Speaker 2 (43:52):
How dare you break those soul ties?

Speaker 1 (43:57):
How dare you free them from devils?

Speaker 2 (44:02):
These were perfectly good teenagers.

Speaker 1 (44:07):
Do you come in here stirring things up, stirring
things?

Speaker 2 (44:10):
up, yeah, yeah.
So I buy this guy's book and-.

Speaker 1 (44:15):
Which, by the way, guys, sorry to interrupt Bill If
you've listened to episode one,you remember me telling you in
that episode that Bill had readone book on soul ties.
This is the one.

Speaker 2 (44:29):
It was not just on soul ties that book went through
soul ties.

Speaker 1 (44:33):
Yeah, it was not just on soul ties.

Speaker 2 (44:34):
That book went through soul ties.
It went through the whole ideaof whether or not a Christian
could have a demon and or whatdemonization is.
That's where I got the termmyself, demonization.
He had probably a whole chapteron you know, are you possessed?
No, you're not possessed.
You're possessed by JesusChrist.
On you know, are you possessed?

(44:56):
No, you're not possessed.
You're possessed by JesusChrist.
There's somebody there usurpingand trying to influence you and
whatever drag you off.

Speaker 1 (45:01):
Well, that's a good point, and I just want to
mention it that.

Speaker 2 (45:05):
It was a pretty thorough book.
That's all I'm trying to sayabout that.

Speaker 1 (45:09):
Yeah, really yeah, I remember, because you loaned it
to me.
It's very thick, right, it'sright, and I actually scanned it
.
It was probably about an inchand a half thick, probably, yeah
.

Speaker 2 (45:17):
It was pretty thorough and you know you can
get that book.
You can't get it on audio, butLL Grange Ministries out of
England and it's written byPeter Horven.
It's a great resource.
Yeah.
Again like a ministry there,but I don't have anything to
gain out of that, oh.

Speaker 1 (45:39):
I want people to be as free as what I saw.
You know, there are Christianslistening to us right now and
they're saying that you and Iare heresy, you know, and this
is ridiculous.
But what we have to, what I'dlike to explain to people, is
that you know we are athree-part being.
God is triad.
He's three-part God, the Father, god the Son, god, the Holy
Spirit.
So he created us this way.
We're three parts.
Our soul is our mind and ouremotions.

(46:00):
That's our soul.
Our spirit belongs to JesusChrist when we become born again
and then we have our physicalbodies, what the Bible calls
flesh or whatever.
But, our soul is what becomesdemonized or, I will say,
possessed.
Either way, there's an area inthe mind that is not under your

(46:22):
control and, if you really stopand think, there are areas of
your life that probably are outof control.
You've tried to overcome themare out of control.
You've tried to overcome them.
Pastors, ministers, have toldyou that it's your sinful nature
.
Read the Bible more, pray more,but no matter what, you just

(46:43):
cannot seem to get the victoryover whatever this struggle is
in your life that you're dealingwith.
This is demonization, and a verycommon one is pornography.
You know the amount of womenand men that I've met through
the years of my Christianitythat were hated pornography,

(47:06):
absolutely hated it, wantednothing to do with it, but they
couldn't stop and they couldn'tunderstand why this area of
their life, all other areas oftheir Christian walk, was fine,
but in this area it was asthough they were a slave.
And it's what I tell people ifyou're a slave, you have a

(47:27):
master.
That area of the mind, the soul, the emotions, our thoughts,
our vision, our fantasy, ourimaginations, that area of the
mind is what Bill's callingdemonized.
I say possessed.
Those are just words.
The bottom line is there's ademon there that has control,

(47:48):
and that's what gets expelled.
It's not in your spirit.
Your spirit belongs to JesusChrist.
It's sacred, can never get intoyour spirit, but your mind,
absolutely.
That's what we're trying toconvey here.

Speaker 2 (48:02):
This is what so there was something, there was kind
of like a realization that Ineeded to have, and that was
that.
And I, even as I was seeing it,I was thinking to myself this,
this thought and I think that alot of Christians think this
thought the Holy Spirit wouldnever share His base with the

(48:23):
devil.
Therefore, this cannot behappening.
And A to that I have to answerback to myself.
After having taken and gone andgrabbed as much information as
I can and reformulated, what Ireally believed about it Was
that A the Holy Spirit was notsharing the space with the

(48:45):
demons because he used thatminister to kick them out.
That's the whole point.
Good point, there's one thing,and the other point is you know
where are those demons?
They're here on the earth.
And where's the Holy Spirit?
It's here too, so you know.

Speaker 1 (49:00):
So they're sharing.

Speaker 2 (49:01):
So they're not in any kind of a mutual agreement.

Speaker 1 (49:05):
Exactly.

Speaker 2 (49:05):
I'm not trying to say that.
They're not saying that's yoursand this is mine, but you know
you bring up a great point themutual agreement.

Speaker 1 (49:12):
You know they're both on the earth, you know, so to
speak, yes, and they're also.
Both can be in different partsof our makeup.
And there is no mutualagreement, there's no mutual
agreement.

Speaker 2 (49:23):
The Holy.

Speaker 1 (49:23):
Spirit, jesus Christ, inside of our spirit, wants
these demons out of our soul, ofour mind and emotions, and
those demons don't want to letthat go.
This is why people struggle inareas of their lives and cannot
seem to overcome it.

Speaker 2 (49:40):
And sometimes that's because of choices that they
made.

Speaker 1 (49:44):
Yes, I mean, you bring up a good point.
Sorry to interrupt you.

Speaker 2 (49:48):
That's all right.

Speaker 1 (49:48):
Really there are three ways that demons get into
our soul, our mind and emotions.
Number one, things we've done.
Number two, things that havebeen done to us and then number
three, ancestral curses.
Those are the top three waysthat demons get into us.
Like for me, you know I'm outto the soul tie concept you're

(50:11):
explaining.
I mean, you know my teen yearsdude.
Yeah.
You know, I mean, I was with,like I said in another episode.
You know I was definitely not aplayer, yeah, but I was with a
handful of women and got demonsand lots of them from just a
handful of women.
When I say a handful, it wasnot many at all.

(50:31):
Yeah, so it's, it's not many atall.
And then things done to yourejection, when a parent rejects
someone, when a parent abandonssomeone, when a parent
physically beats someone,sexually molest them, incest,
some things done to the person.
Demons get into a person's soulat that point.
And then the ancestral curses.

(50:54):
You know things that you know.
We can see this just in simpleexamples of, maybe, alcoholism.
You know, my great-grandfatherwas an alcoholic, his father was
an alcoholic.
My father was an alcoholic, Iwas an alcoholic till I broke
that curse off of my life.

Speaker 2 (51:10):
So there's.
You know, can I just?
I feel like I want to interject.
Yeah, go ahead, dude, that Ifeel like I want to interject
one little yeah, go ahead.

Speaker 1 (51:14):
dude, that was done.
Sorry for cutting you off.

Speaker 2 (51:15):
No, I'm not even going back to what I was saying.
I just want to point out thatthat's a great example and we
always, and people always, thinkabout that one maybe, or you
know, like, but that that alsoapplies to behaviors that are
not necessarily these jealousy.

(51:35):
You know, maybe I am a jealousperson.
You know, my mom was a jealousperson, my grandfather, you
could just see this.

Speaker 1 (51:45):
Controlling Like a thread.

Speaker 2 (51:47):
Yeah, Going.
You know right, it could becontrolling and manipulation or
whatever.
I mean it doesn't have to bepromiscuity, it could be
overeating.
Yeah, which was mine.
I mean, I talked about that?

Speaker 1 (52:01):
Yeah, I had binge eating.
Yeah, I talked about that in myepisode.
Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (52:05):
Right, and I don't necessarily think that those are
all demonic even, but it is atrait that gets passed on and it
can become because you get into.
By things you're doing, you'rereally, you're in agreement with
the dark side?
No, but really, you know I jokeabout that, but yeah.

Speaker 1 (52:38):
So you read this book and you're like okay, so
Christians got demons.
You get your head around that.
You're like okay.
And let's talk now about someof the situations where you
personally experienced demons asa Christian.

Speaker 2 (52:53):
Interestingly is that my, like I said, get the
information, gather it up,research with prayer and realize
that not only am I wrong, but Ihave one.
That was what I came out theother side with.
Not only was I wrong, butthat's my problem, at least

(53:17):
partially.

Speaker 1 (53:18):
Yeah, things do seem a little bit more clear when you
accept this.
Your life seems to make moresense, strangely enough.

Speaker 2 (53:27):
Sometimes, because sometimes when you, I mean who
doesn't, who hasn't said tothemselves in absolute
frustration, why do I keep doingthis?

Speaker 1 (53:41):
Right, or what's wrong with me?

Speaker 2 (53:44):
Because you don't want to.
Yeah.
Yeah, you know what I mean.
Exactly.
And I'm not saying you know,I'm just saying everybody you
know ends up slipping up hereand there doing something, and
it might just be something thatyou maybe vowed to yourself that
you would never do again andyou know, or whatever that is,
whether it be something youphysically do or something that

(54:07):
you thought or something thatyou said.

Speaker 1 (54:10):
Can I guide you into one of your situations that I
think is….

Speaker 2 (54:15):
Sure Pertinent.

Speaker 1 (54:17):
Yeah, and I think it's a very solid case for
Christians being demonized Japanand the temple.

Speaker 2 (54:25):
Yeah, so that was still Hong Kong.
Oh, okay, so what happened is?
It's just odd.
This is a story of God's love.

Speaker 1 (54:37):
Mercy.

Speaker 2 (54:40):
And so here I go.
That was my first week in HongKong.
That's what I saw.
That's how it starts off.
I end up for the last two weeksin this fishing village where
you've got to go from the islandof Hong Kong to the mainland

(55:00):
part of Hong Kong, take a bus 45minutes up over the mountains,
walk in another half hourthrough this little fishing
village.
I mean it's to the point where,like it's an adventure because
I at one point have to crosslike a river and there's these
little old ladies in an oldwooden boat and there's a rope

(55:20):
going.
It's not a big river, there's arope going across it and you
flip them a coin and they pullthe boat across and you get off
the other side.
So, walking way back in here,there's an abandoned school that
the Hong Kong government gaveto that ministry I think they're
called St Peter's Society orsomething like that and they

(55:45):
have these drug these boys.
It was a camp for boys and sothere were all these teenage
boys and that's where thegovernment said either go to
rehab or go to jail.
So they went to rehab and inthis rehab that's Christian run
these kids get saved, they getfilled with the Holy Spirit and

(56:05):
they get delivered from drugsand they speak no English zero.
Nobody in the whole villagespeaks English except me.
So I don't speak any Chinese atall.
None, I studied Japanese.
It's completely different.
It's like the differencebetween English and French.
It's completely different.

(56:26):
So I have absolutely nothing todo for two weeks except for pray
for these kids and read thisbook.
So I read that book, I readanother book too, and so there I
was.
That's how I come out of, okay.
So there were two temples inthe village and I was walking

(56:47):
through the village and I lookedat this one temple I don't
remember what this particularone was and I just was mad that
it was there, because thesepeople were serving these,
basically serving demons, out offear.
At least that was my perception, and yeah, and I started to say

(57:07):
pray so you went into thetemple no, okay, hang on, I'll
get there, okay, so that one.
I'm on my way back to the, towhere I was staying.
I don't know I'd been outwalking around the village or
whatever, and I'm and I'mpraying I don't know I'd been
out walking around the villageor whatever, and I'm praying.
You know, and I'm sayingprophesying basically, but kind
of more or less out of my ownself, that I, because I know

(57:30):
these things will be torn downat some point, the Lord will
return, he will destroy that the, you know, all of the temples
to other gods.
That's going to happen.
So, but on my way, right beforeyou get to to my, to my place
where I was staying, there was atemple that was devoted to the

(57:51):
monkey god, that one.
So the first one was like up ona hill and I would have to make
an effort to get in there.
This one was really easilyaccessible and I'm lazy.

Speaker 1 (58:06):
Now it's funny you mentioned a monkey god because
that could have been Chinese,but it's very common in the
Hindu religion they have amonkey god.

Speaker 2 (58:10):
Yeah, and I'm sure it's the same one, because you
know Buddhism and Hinduism.

Speaker 1 (58:16):
Yeah, buddhism come out of Hinduism.

Speaker 2 (58:17):
Yeah, it's like socialism and communism, it's
the same.

Speaker 1 (58:22):
Okay, so you're at this monkey god temple.

Speaker 2 (58:24):
So I go inside of that one and I start saying the
Lord is.
You know, this temple is goingto be destroyed in Jesus' name.

Speaker 3 (58:32):
Blah, blah, blah, this kind of thing, and I walk
out and then I go into.

Speaker 2 (58:38):
okay, so after that it's very dark.
It starts becoming a very darktime in my life.
I don't know why I'm there.
My grandfather's in thehospital.
He's dying.
And I was very close with mygrandparents.
Yeah, so anyways, I want toshorten up the story.

Speaker 1 (58:57):
Yeah, let's get back to where you're back in America
now.

Speaker 2 (58:59):
So I come back to.
I'm coming back to America, butby the time I get done with my
year in Japan, so I had to gofrom August all the way back to,
I think, april before I wasdone and life just went downhill
.
This was probably outside ofdrug addiction.

(59:20):
This is definitely by far thedarkest time in my life.
It was very difficult.

Speaker 1 (59:25):
And do you think that this started?
I know there's a lot ofcontributing factors, but it
started with the monkey temple.

Speaker 2 (59:30):
Yes, okay, I think so , okay so you went downhill.

Speaker 1 (59:36):
It's really a dark time in your life in your life.

Speaker 2 (59:44):
When I say a dark time, I've told you before that
I used to go back to myapartment at night and turn the
lights off and sit there in thedark for hours.
No TV, no radio, just mesitting there depressed.
So I come back to the Statesand the very first service that
I went back to church, I walk inand Now, this was the church.

Speaker 1 (01:00:04):
I'm sorry to interrupt.

Speaker 2 (01:00:05):
It's okay.

Speaker 1 (01:00:05):
This is the church that was sponsoring you as a
missionary?

Speaker 2 (01:00:08):
Yeah, they sent me.

Speaker 1 (01:00:10):
Okay, so you're back at the church that sent you as a
missionary.
It's a year later.
You're at the Monkey Temple.

Speaker 2 (01:00:15):
You walk into church, right and everybody's
worshiping the praise service isalready going.
I remember looking over themand it was as if I went from a
place where I saw somethingsimilar when I was.
When I saw those teenagers inHong Kong to six months later
walking into into that churchand I looked at them praising

(01:00:38):
and worshiping God and Icouldn't remember why they were
doing it.
So I just walk in and I'mstanding there and I'm't
remember why they were doing it.
So I just walk in and I'mstanding there and I'm looking
around kind of like it was justlike weird, it was like an
amazement or something, and I'mjust standing there like kind of
I don't know, kind of shocked.

Speaker 1 (01:00:54):
So your thought processes are way off from I
mean you're a.
Christian missionary comingback into a worship service.
Yeah, you should know what thisis, why you're there.
You should be excited to joinin with them, exactly, but
instead you're absolutelybaffled.

Speaker 2 (01:01:13):
I can't figure out why, you know.
I just remember thinking whyare they doing this?
Yeah, and I just seen sixmonths prior in Hong Kong.
I knew why they were doing it.
I was doing it with them.
It was the most wonderful thingI ever saw in my life.
Come back to see in the samething in my home church and I'm
like huh.
And so somebody comes up behindme and this girl that went to

(01:01:36):
the church, or this lady, shecame up, she put her hand on my
back.
Okay, so I have to stop rightthere.
Stop right there.
I need to tell you that I knewby the time I was done with that
book that I needed deliveranceministry myself, and I could not
get it in Japan because I didnot trust the people around me.

Speaker 1 (01:01:58):
Sure.

Speaker 2 (01:01:58):
Okay, okay.
So I was begging God get yougotta help me, you gotta do this
, you gotta get this out of me.
I didn't know how to go aboutit.
I didn't I didn't trust thepeople that were around that I
was with.
So this woman, she comes up andshe prays for me, and God

(01:02:18):
wastes no time, zero.
The minute I'm back into aplace where I know that I'm
loved, he does it.
Now.
I could have really, you know,been done a solid and have this
not happen in front of 500people.

Speaker 1 (01:02:39):
Sonny's going to humble you Well actually,
actually, actually let meinterject this and then.

Speaker 2 (01:02:42):
I'll shut up because we're at the good part here now,
guys.

Speaker 1 (01:02:45):
This is going to get really good, but I want to say
that Jesus Christ always didpublic exorcisms.
He never took anyone aside intoa room and said let's do this
over here, out of the way.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:03:00):
I don't know.
I don't know if he did ordidn't, but it seems like
everybody knew Mary Magdaleneand all the demons that she had
taken down.

Speaker 1 (01:03:07):
Yeah, yeah, but I'm saying what we have in— it was
public knowledge.
Yes, yeah, so I mean theexamples we have of him doing
exorcism.
They're all public.

Speaker 2 (01:03:15):
Because when we talk about that, why would he want to
hide that?

Speaker 1 (01:03:22):
It's a demonstration of his supreme power and his
love.

Speaker 2 (01:03:28):
Yes, so he didn't say blind Bartimaeus, let's go in a
room over here and let me prayfor you.

Speaker 1 (01:03:33):
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:03:33):
Right, so why would he do that?

Speaker 1 (01:03:35):
Or the little boy that was epileptic with the
demon throwing him into the firehe didn't say, hey, let's get
him out of here, let's gosomewhere, you know where.

Speaker 2 (01:03:47):
it's not embarrassing for him.
So God doesn't break his, Iguess, pattern.
So he doesn't care.
So he doesn't care.
So he doesn't care.
He's the same yesterday, thatold building in front of 500
people.

Speaker 1 (01:03:53):
Imagine this now, guys.
What is this?
A Sunday morning worship?

Speaker 2 (01:03:57):
Yes, prime time, baby WWF.
And so she comes and she praysfor me.
All of a sudden, these demonsjust start kicking up and I
start screaming and I don't evenknow what's going on.
Really at that kind of at thatpoint.
I don't know that I'm going toget deliverance ministry.
I don't know that it's themscreaming through me.

(01:04:17):
It's not really me.
I end up face down on the floorand I have probably three or
four really large men Now againconfining.
These people love me, and sothey, and they're on, they're on
my back and I know that.

(01:04:38):
I know that I'm I'm cooperating, but if I wanted, if I hadn't
cooperated, I would have threw,you know, big head across the
room, and so I'm laying there.

Speaker 1 (01:04:50):
So in other words, you had demonic strength and
this is you know.

Speaker 3 (01:04:56):
we see this in the Bible with the guy in the tombs
that had legion.

Speaker 1 (01:04:59):
He broke the chains right off of him.
They couldn't even confine him,because there is supernatural
strength that when you'redemonized, that happens, so so
this is interesting that you'reaware of this, so you're
co-conscious.
There's two states ofdemonization either black out,
like I did with the pretty pinkshirt.
Yeah, or you're co-conscious,you have an awareness of what's

(01:05:19):
going on.
So you're co-conscious, youhave an awareness of what's
going on.
So you're co-conscious.
These demons manifest.
They're screaming Guys tackleyou down.
You're like you know that ifyou'd really let this thing go,
you could throw them like ragdolls.

Speaker 2 (01:05:31):
If I cooperated.
Yeah, I could have actuallyharnessed it if I wanted to yeah
right, praise God, you didn't.

Speaker 1 (01:05:37):
Absolutely and there were some very specific ones

(01:05:58):
that I knew where they came from.
I didn't know at the time thatI was getting them but the Lord
showed me and I had to tell themwhat you know.
What is this thing?
Because they didn.
People aren't even trained tobe truly deal with the trenches
of demonization and spiritualwarfare.
That's right, and they didn'tknow.

Speaker 2 (01:06:09):
And just as a side note, I don't really want to go
down this rabbit trail, but Iwas in a death metal band a long
time ago and I remember therewere bands that we were playing
songs that we were playing.
Remember, there were bands thatwe were playing songs that we
were playing and I know that Iknow where they came from.
That's when I got those demonsthey were from.
I'm not saying all of thatmusic is, I'm not a fan of it

(01:06:32):
now, just saying that I knewwhere they came from, sure, so
we kicked them out.
That was not really a big issue, but something that was air
fingers quote hanging on.
So my pastor comes down off ofthe church because he's about
had enough of this, and he sees,you know, almost like Jesus,

(01:06:53):
when he came down off of themountain, you brought up the
epileptic boy and the disciplescould not cast it out.
And these guys are not gettingthe job done.
They did some, you know, sureno fault of their own.
But he comes down and I'm noteven looking at him.
I'm looking down.
My face is in the carpet on thefloor yeah.

(01:07:15):
And I feel him and I could sortof see him.
I think it was them seeing himcoming down and he said, hey,
you get out of there.
That I think it was them seeinghim at the coming down and he
said, hey, you get out of there.
That was all it was.
There was all this drama goingon, right, yeah, and these other
guys couldn't, you know really.

(01:07:36):
But he comes walking down, he'slike you get out.
He's hey, you get out.
He's hey, you get out of there.
Just like pointed, like, justget out of here.
Yeah.
And it did, and a friend of mine, she was happened to be that
she was up on the altar also,just sitting on the side.
Basically, you know, while hewas preaching, when I or no, not
preaching, but she was up there.

(01:07:57):
Yeah.
Whatever she was up there, theywould always have some elders
or like, maybe pastors.
They would be up there sittingdown or whatever she comes up to
me later.

Speaker 1 (01:08:09):
And she said I could see when you came in she goes
you had this thing like a greatbig monkey that was just hanging
on your back.
How interesting.

Speaker 2 (01:08:19):
And that was the thing that had to go, that when
he came down and said hey, youget out of here, that was the
thing that left.
She said I seen it leave.
She said I saw it on your back.
It was like hanging on you likea monkey.

Speaker 1 (01:08:31):
And when she told me that I mean even now.

Speaker 2 (01:08:34):
It makes my skin crawl because I know where it
came from.

Speaker 1 (01:08:37):
That temple.
It came from that temple.

Speaker 2 (01:08:39):
Yeah, and I was absolutely dumbfounded.
I'm like how could this be?
Because then it turned from notonly can I have one or two, or
three, God, could you let thatgo on.

(01:09:05):
You know it was.
It was merciful for him to,because I couldn't find get
deliverance ministry when I,when I initially knew.
So here I am, six months of mylife that I know they're there
and I don't know what to do andI can't get rid of them and I
can't talk to anybody about it.
You know, and this is thesadness of it all.

Speaker 1 (01:09:16):
I was the same way, but mine was 30 years, you know.
I couldn't find anyone to helpme.
I knew.
I had demons and so forth, was30 years, you know I couldn't
find anyone to help me.
I knew I had demons and soforth.
You know this was not the casein the early churches in, you
know, first, second, thirdcentury.
I mean exorcism was a way oflife back then, and it was
readilyavailable.
So you know, you got to figure,like you know, paul Peter,

(01:09:38):
these guys, you know they'recoming into Greek and Roman
culture, where everyone'spossessed from demon gods and
they are possessed becauseChrist is not their Lord at that
point.
Right, right.
So they're exercising thesedemons, getting them out
publicly.
People are becoming that's thenumber one.
Way they led people to JesusChrist back then was through
public display of the power ofJesus Christ, the supreme power

(01:10:01):
and, like you said, love ofJesus Christ.
And you know through the years,I mean the Catholic Church, you
know not to go off on thisrabbit tail, but I mean they've
had exorcism forever.
It's only the Protestant Churchthat you know came up with this
idea and I think it started,you know some of it in America,

(01:10:21):
where you know Christians can'thave demons.
Because I mean, how old is thiscountry now?
What?

Speaker 2 (01:10:26):
200.

Speaker 1 (01:10:27):
200.
You're right 25-ish.
Yeah, so we don't have thishistory of occultic practices in
this land like Africa.

Speaker 2 (01:10:37):
We don't recognize them Right, but we have them, we
do.
We do, but you understand whatI'm saying we don't recognize
them Right, but we have them, wedo, we do, but you understand
what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (01:10:45):
Like we don't have any ancient yeah, we don't have
like temples with ancient godswhere we did sacrifices or you
know things where it's in thehistory, and so people
understand in these othercountries that there are demons.
You know that people can havedemons and you know Christian
missionaries that go into othercountries Japan, india, parts of
China, and again, you knowAfrica, south America, right?

(01:11:10):
You know all of these countrieshave had deep entrenched
occultic practices through theyears with their gods and their
deities, and so Christianmissionaries go in there.
They have no problem believingthat Christians can have demons
because of this.
Nor do the people.
They're like man, like you andme, like we got demons, I want

(01:11:34):
to get rid of them, and so inAmerica and other countries I'm
not picking on America- andAustralia and UK and stuff like
that, but these are thecountries that I'm aware of,
that in Canada, you know,christians can't have demons and
it's so sad because every weekthousands of Christians leave
church and they celebrate Jesus,they worship the Lord, they get

(01:11:56):
in the car, they're drivinghome, or the next day or two
days later they're in emotionaltorment.
Yeah.
And they don't understand whyand they think, oh man, I got to
read my Bible more or I justneed to pray more.
Some of them are very abstractwith the devil and demons, Like
I need to fight the devil, he'safter me.
No, no, no, I mean, evil is aperson, it's not a thing.

(01:12:20):
You know it.
There are demons.
The other demonic thing thatyou experienced that I found
quite fascinating was with theparents and the knife.
Oh, my gosh Can you tell thepeople about this one.

(01:12:42):
This one is extremelyfascinating.

Speaker 2 (01:12:45):
Well, and so again, you know, I had already been to
Japan, actually, so I'd been aChristian for quite some time,
and I was just laying in bed.

Speaker 1 (01:12:58):
At your parents.
So you're still with yourparents at this point.

Speaker 2 (01:13:00):
Yeah, because I'm in transition, a lot of transition.
I'm not a full-time minister.
I don't have a bunch of peopledonating to me on a regular
basis, so I still have to takejobs here and there.
Don't know where I'm going togo.
You're working through it.
I'm working through it.

Speaker 1 (01:13:19):
So you're staying with your parents, you're laying
in bed.

Speaker 2 (01:13:21):
Yeah, I'm laying in bed, and many times this it
didn't just happen once, but itkind of got stronger and
stronger that I started havingthese thoughts that I should
kill my parents.
And they're in the next room,and I just was like this you

(01:13:41):
know, get out of here, devil,whatever.
You know, just everybody hasthese random thoughts.
but they were just like growingin intensity, yeah, but it just
was like more than a thought.
It was almost like somethingthat I could yield to that was
having that.
It was something being pressedupon me.
It wasn't my thought.

(01:14:02):
That it was something beingpressed upon me.
It wasn't my thought it was.
And so over time and not a lotof time, I'm just going to say
maybe a week it just wasstronger and stronger and
stronger.
It got to the point where Icould discern that there was
something in my room.
Where it was, I could.
Sense it.
Yeah, I could see it with myspiritual eyes.

(01:14:24):
Yeah.
That I could see the outlineand I it was so strong of a
compulsion.

Speaker 1 (01:14:34):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (01:14:35):
And I was like what is going?
I knew what was going on.
I mean, I can't say.
I was like what was going on.
I knew what was going on and Ijust had my Bible.
I'm not typically the kind ofperson that says I'm going to
use this Bible as a I don't know.
A weapon.
Physically?
Yeah, not physically, but I,man, I had this Bible open.

(01:14:58):
I'm gripping it to my chest,I'm reading it, I'm reading it.
I'm reading it.
I'm commanding the devil toleave.
Get out of here, get out ofhere, get out of here, Get out
of here.
Eventually, it does get out ofthere.

Speaker 1 (01:15:09):
Okay, but at a certain point I remember you
told me that it actually wascompelling you to get a knife.

Speaker 2 (01:15:14):
Yes, specifically, go to the kitchen, get a knife and
kill your parents in their bed.
Yeah.
Now, I love my parents.
I don't want to kill my parentsExactly.
You know what I mean.
Sure, I wouldn't do that and soodd.
I mean it's just like an out ofthe blue kind of thing.
But the point that I know thatyou're getting to is that that

(01:15:37):
night probably about maybe halfa mile down the road a teenage
boy did go into the kitchen inthe middle of the night, get out
a knife and he went and stabbedhis parents in their bed.

Speaker 1 (01:15:49):
And murdered them.

Speaker 2 (01:15:50):
Yeah.
Which is exactly what thatthing was, which is exactly what
that thing was trying to get meto do.
So the scripture says the devilgoes about like a roaring lion
to see who he can devour.
He could not devour me, rightsee who he can devour.
He could not devour me right,but he did devour some people.
Yeah, and you know, it was justreally man, what an eye-opening

(01:16:11):
experience yeah, that that thereality of how real, that that
this is now however, I did nothave like some kind of thing
that had to be exercised from me, but it was just the point that
something came along, I don'tknow why.
It is almost seem random.

Speaker 1 (01:16:29):
A lot of times, if there's openings in our lives
that we don't know about, theycan leverage it.

Speaker 2 (01:16:35):
Sure yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:16:36):
You know, just like in Proverbs, where it talks
about I don't remember the exactwording of the scripture, but
like a curse isn't going to landon someone without cause, yeah.
Well, you know that's a lot oftimes how witchcraft works is
they look for entry points thatare still open in our minds, in
our lives, that they canleverage when you know casting a
curse, just to see if I can,kind of thing.

(01:16:57):
Yeah, I guess Very interesting.
So this was in your 20s right?

Speaker 2 (01:17:03):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:17:04):
So you've had a decent amount of supernatural
phenomena and deliveranceexorcism in your 20s.

Speaker 2 (01:17:12):
Yeah, I would say so.
Yeah, in my 20s.
I was definitely in my 20s.

Speaker 1 (01:17:18):
And you and I worked together here was it this year
or last year on an exorcism?
We don't got to get into thespecifics of it, but Probably
about a year ago.
About a year ago.
About a year ago, okay, so youwould have been about what?
54-ish?

Speaker 2 (01:17:35):
54.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:17:37):
The reason I mention this and again, not to get into
the specifics of it, but youknow this.
You know your mid to late 20s.
You go through some and then inyour mid 50s you know, almost
25 years later you're goingthrough more.
And I think it's an importantconcept to understand for people

(01:17:58):
that maybe have been throughdeliverance or are going through
deliverance slash exorcism.
That sometimes it's you know,more than one time, different
times in your life, and that'snormal.

Speaker 2 (01:18:16):
I'm wondering and we, you and I have.
Sorry, let me just finish thisyeah.

Speaker 1 (01:18:21):
Because I think a lot of times people think that it's
one and done and that's it, youknow, and you never have to
have another one again.
But but I wish it was thatsimple.
But you know, there are likeI'm working with exorcists often
, as you know.
You know I meet with them allthe time, and there's an
exorcist that just said in ourmeeting, you know, this past

(01:18:43):
week, that he needs to gothrough more deliverance, and
this person has been an exorcistfor, I'm going to say, every
bit of 20 to 25 years, Becausethere's areas in our lives that
maybe we're not aware of ormaybe we're not ready for yet.
So God, kind of in His mercy,keeps them aside, out of the way

(01:19:06):
, and then, as we grow in God,he surfaces things.
I think that's kind of common,you know, as we grow with God,
God's like hey, you need to quitsmoking pot, or Well there's
areas obviously that you.
That's what I'm saying isobviously that you.
That's what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (01:19:21):
We like to, you know.
Sure, I mean, you could evenequate that with just the Lord
bringing up somebody in yourmemory that you haven't forgiven
or something like that.

Speaker 1 (01:19:31):
Yeah, exactly yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:19:33):
He doesn't.
It wasn't one and done.
There have been people that Ihad to maybe forgive for saying
or doing something to me a longtime ago.
Yeah.
That I never even really thinkabout them.
But, if I do think about themout of the clear blue or
situations happen that aresimilar that may trigger me to

(01:19:53):
think about it.
Yeah, I could be bitter orunforgiving or whatever.

Speaker 1 (01:19:58):
Sure.

Speaker 2 (01:19:59):
Anyone is.
I think we're all that way.

Speaker 1 (01:20:01):
Yeah.
So I and you're absolutelyright, you know that just things
that surface.
So I just wanted to point outto anyone that maybe has been
through an exorcism or or whatChristians call, you know,
deliverance ministry that ifyou're seeing things kind of
surface in your life and you'relike, wait a minute, I thought I
was delivered, thought I wasfully exercised, what's going on

(01:20:22):
?
I mean, it's like layers of anonion.
You take a layer off and maybea year or two later another
layer comes up.
God really orchestrates this.
He knows what we can handlewhen we can handle it.
So I just wanted to throw thatout there as encouragement for
people that it's not that you'velet things back into your life,

(01:20:43):
it's not that you're a failure,it's not that it didn't work,
it's that it's just a new layer.
So you know, try to keep thatin mind.
Bill, thank you very much forcoming here and sharing your

(01:21:03):
life with all of us.
Sure.
And.
I know that people probablyhearing you could connect with
many of the things you're sayingand I always ask people this at
the end Do you have any wordsof encouragement to people that
might be struggling with theidea that Christians can have a

(01:21:25):
demon, or people who maybe knowthey have demons and are afraid
to move forward to go through anexorcism or deliverance?
Any type of encouragement thatyou can offer to people.

Speaker 2 (01:21:39):
Well, for one thing, I just would like to say that I
don't know.
I just feel led to say thatthere are probably places that
there's not.
It's not.
Probably.
There are places that were inmy life, that are in the lives
of a lot of people, where theythink they're doing something
that is just completely harmless.

(01:21:59):
Completely harmless that youmaybe I don't want to pick on
this maybe in a band singingthere was a line in a Motley
Crue song forward all my mail tome in hell.
You know, I just you just kindof get in agreements with the
enemy on things where you allowhim to then be a partner in your

(01:22:25):
life and start to mess you up,like things that I got into,
like the tarot cards, like thewitchcraft book, like the Ouija
board.
I mean, I've had so many thingsthat people think, oh, the
Ouija board, oh, that's just agame, it's not a game.

(01:22:45):
It isn't a game.
And those are.
If you could picture, doorsthat are open that I opened, the
devil didn't open, that Goddidn't open it.
I did, I opened that door.
I didn't do it If I knew whatwas going to happen.
I would have never opened thatdoor.
I didn't do it If I knew whatwas going to happen, I would
have never opened that door.
True that man, true that.

(01:23:06):
And there are just many, manythings that maybe I opened the
door, maybe my grandmotheropened the door, dripping the
oil in the water to practicedivination about something I
don't know.
You know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (01:23:20):
I'm just yeah, my grandma read my palm.

Speaker 2 (01:23:23):
I mean, I got demons from that aren't there little
things that go on in our livesthat we're just like yeah, my
grandmother used to do that, orI remember this time where we
went and we stood in the in themirror and we said bloody mary
three times and yeah, it's notBloody.
Mary three times and yeah, ha ha, ha ha, it's not.
Ha, ha, ha ha.
When you can't figure out whyyou have some things happening

(01:23:52):
in your life and you don't knowwhy, there's a reason.
It's like you said a curse willnot alight for no reason.
Right, there is some accesspoint, some open door, and there
are times when you need to gethelp.
There is no fear and there isno shame.
Come to Jesus because we'retalking.

(01:24:14):
Yes, we're talking about thesupernatural.
Yes, we're talking aboutparanormal activity.
Yeah.
And Hollywood has hyped this upto the point where people are
afraid to look at it or dealwith it.
But the fact of the matter isthat the blood of Jesus is
always, always, alwayssufficient.
The power of God is supreme inany situation, any situation, to

(01:24:39):
reverse every situation andevery fact on this world and
this universe is always subjectto the final word, and that's
the word of God.
So we don't have to be afraidat all.
We can come to the Lord.

Speaker 1 (01:25:03):
This always has to be about the Lord, Bill.
Why don't you, if you wouldn'tmind, say a prayer for the
listeners and then we'll call ita wrap?

Speaker 2 (01:25:09):
All right, lord, we just thank you for today.
Thank you for your love for us,of everything that we do and
everything that we say, yourcharacter, even though the enemy
would like to accuse you.
He accuses us and, lord, heaccuses you, but we know that

(01:25:47):
your character is not such thatyou like to watch people suffer.
But the Scripture tells us thatLord God gave His only begotten
Son so that through Him, wemight not perish but we'd have
everlasting life.
So I thank you for that, thatyou're not a liar, that you are
not a torturer.
You have nothing but goodintentions for us, top to bottom
, back to front, hands down, asJustin likes to say.

(01:26:10):
You have nothing but love forus and nothing but good
intentions for us, and so Ithank you.
For the people that might belistening, thank you that you
will bring them into a placewhere they can have the courage
to seek help if they need it inany way, whether it be mental
help, physical help.

(01:26:31):
What's the difference?
Spiritual help, what's thedifference?
It's all part of who we are,and so we just I pray and I ask,
lord, that you would drawpeople to yourself, set them
free in any method.
By the blood of Jesus, lord, wethank you for that.
I thank you that you're goingto do it in Jesus' holy name,

(01:26:52):
amen.

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