May 21, 2025 • 22 mins
Ever wonder if we've misunderstood the Christmas story all along? Our fascinating deep dive into Luke 2:7 reveals how a single word completely transforms the narrative we thought we knew. When examining the original text, we discover it doesn't say "no room at the inn" but rather "no place for them" – a subtle distinction with profound implications.
The traditional portrayal of a heartless innkeeper turning away the holy family crumbles when viewed through the lens of Jewish customs. In first-century Bethlehem, a birthing woman needed separation from others due to ritual purity laws. Rather than rejecting Mary and Joseph out of callousness, the innkeeper may have been following cultural protocols by directing them to the only appropriate location available – the back portion of the home where animals were kept for warmth and security.
This reframing opens multiple interpretations of the Christmas story. Is it about missed opportunities to receive blessings? God showing up in unexpected places? Or perhaps it reveals how tradition can sometimes interfere with truly welcoming the divine into our lives? The parallels between Christ's humble birth and his humble death create a powerful pattern that weaves throughout scripture – consistent examples of how God subverts human expectations at every turn.
The Christmas narrative takes on rich new dimensions through this cultural understanding. We see how Joseph and Mary, though poor, were provided for through the gifts of the wise men. We recognize the profound humility that marked both the beginning and end of Jesus's earthly journey. Most importantly, we're challenged to examine where our own traditions might be preventing us from recognizing God's presence in unexpected places and circumstances today.
The team explores how our traditional understanding of the Christmas innkeeper story may be based on a misinterpretation. We examine the subtle but crucial difference between "no room" and "no place" in Luke 2:7, revealing how Jewish birthing customs provide essential context for Jesus's birth.
• The original text doesn't say "no room at the inn" but "no place for them" – a distinction that changes the entire narrative
• Jewish purity laws required birthing women to be separated from others as they were considered ritually unclean
• Bethlehem homes typically had living quarters with cave systems behind for animals, not separate barn structures
• The innkeeper likely wasn't rejecting Mary and Joseph but directing them to an appropriate birthing location
• This story demonstrates how tradition can sometimes impede understanding God's true message
• Jesus's humble birth parallels his humble death – a consistent pattern of subverted expectations
• The gold, frankincense and myrrh gifts likely financed the holy family's escape to Egypt
• God consistently appears in unexpected places and circumstances throughout biblical narratives
Listen now to discover the profound layers of meaning hidden in this familiar story and how they might transform your understanding of the divine narrative playing out in your own life.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
David (00:02):
Welcome to the Boundless Bible.
My name is David Shapiro, hey,I'm Javi Marquez and I'm Jason
Holloway.
Welcome to the Boundless Bible.
I am excited but also a littlebit confused to talk about what
I want to bring up today if youguys don't mind giving me a
little bit of leeway becauseit's March, and what I'm going
(00:26):
to mind giving me a little bitof leeway because it's March and
what I'm going to talk abouthas a little bit to do with the
Christmas story that everybodyhas heard of, which is good
because you'll be familiar withthe story, but I have some
questions on it.
One particular question, andthis one I actually need your
help to answer, because I wasstudying and I got to a point
where I'm going man, I might'vebeen wrong about what I assumed
(00:47):
this Christmas story was about,and this has to do with the
innkeeper.
This has to do with the pointof the story of there's no room
at the inn, which, again, we'veheard that if you go to
Christmas services, you'veprobably heard the story.
But the question I have is isthis a story about missed
opportunities to receiveblessings, which we've heard, or
(01:11):
is this a story about makingroom for Jesus?
And sermons discuss like, hey,don't miss your opportunity all
year round to make room forJesus, making room at the end.
Or and I'm going to kind ofpose this this way is is this
about god can show up and doesshow up in unexpected places and
(01:31):
circumstances.
Jason (01:32):
Yeah, even when you're not ready for it right, yes, and
and should you be ready to letthem in?
David (01:37):
that's kind of the well that and and I'll tell you
something interesting, and I'mjust going to read this passage,
and what it is is it's luke 2,7, okay, and what it says
specifically is and she gavebirth to her firstborn son and
wrapped him in swaddling clothsand laid him in a manger because
there was no place for them atthe end.
Yeah, let me, let me read thatlast line.
There was no place for him atthe end.
(01:58):
Not, there was no room at theend.
There was no place for him atthe end.
And this is the part I was like, wait a minute, why wouldn't
they just say there's no room?
At the end, they say there's noplace for him.
And I started to realize thatwhen you look at the culture of
Israel, israelis would alwayshelp a neighbor.
(02:19):
Joseph was a Bethlehemite, helived in Bethlehem, that's where
he was born, that was his home.
So you have a son who comeshome with a pregnant woman.
They would never say there's noroom.
It's just not something thatthe Jewish tradition would have
allowed.
And if we're saying this is aJewish village, I believe that
(02:40):
there was a room at the inn.
That's my first kind ofshocking moment.
And go well, what does thatmean?
There's no place.
What I think happened was sheis a birthing woman.
Exactly, a birthing womancannot be around other people
because she would be.
Yeah, she needs to be unclean,she'd be unclean, right.
(03:02):
And now she had a boy, so she'sunclean for 40 days.
If she had a boy, so she'sunclean for 40 days.
If she had a girl, it wouldhave been 60 days according to
jewish tradition.
Okay, but she was unclean, soit wasn't.
There was no room.
At the end.
It was hey, we have room here,but there's all these people
here, right, so you can't be inthis room.
However, if you go to the backof the stables where there are
(03:22):
no people, yeah, you can nowgive birth, because, remember
back then, not only you'reunclean from the blood in the
area, but you're not allowed totidy up your home.
You're not allowed to cook,right, if you're getting fed,
they actually put on a tray.
Put the tray on the floor, moveaway.
You pick up the tray to eat.
The only thing you can do iscare for your child.
Yeah, you can't do that in in aplace that other people are
(03:47):
living.
Yeah, so I think no place atthe end was no, there was room
at the end, but there was noplace.
Jason (03:52):
The amp bible actually says here it says and she gave
birth to her son, her firstborn,and she wrapped him in
swaddling clothes that's thesubtext and laid him in a manger
because there was no subtextprivate room for them in the inn
, right?
So again you're back to thatword private, and I think you're
.
You're back onto something.
I mean it's like the traditionwas keeping them from being with
(04:13):
the people, not the actualspatial arrangement necessarily.
David (04:18):
And, uh, we always have this vision again, it's, it's
movies.
It's you know, a movie comesout and we go oh, that must have
been what it is.
We have this vision of it's ahotel, which it does not say a
hotel, the.
The word in is actuallydifferent.
In hebrew it's kataluma, whichmeans lodging place or upper
room.
It's the same word used whenjesus went to the upper room to
(04:38):
have his passover meal with, soit could have been upper room.
When you look at bethlehem andthe way that their homes were,
you had the home in the frontand behind it was a cave system.
That's where they had.
Their animals was in the caveand what it produced was heat,
because you had all of themliving behind them.
So you had the heat that theyproduced, but they also couldn't
(05:01):
leave without you knowing,because they're behind, where
the house is.
Um, so it's not these stablesthat we look at today in this
farm system, and you know, we,we think about, you know, uh,
the, the movie yellowstone inmontana, where you have the
stables, and that's wherethey're living.
And you know, or it's a barn,no, this was.
It would have been a cavesystem, living behind the house,
and mary and joseph would havebeen at the very back, they
(05:25):
would have been behind all ofthe animals and that's where
they would have given birth toJesus.
So it's just all of the visualsthat we have from this story
changes a little bit when youlook at the exact wording and
you look at the Hebrewtranslation of it, and and it's,
it's just something where, ifyou look at the line beforehand,
(05:48):
it also gives some clue.
Um, and the line beforehand saysthey had to go back to
Bethlehem for the registry Maryhas patrolled who's with child,
and while they were there, itcame time for her to give birth.
Right, they were already there.
They were already somewhere.
Were they living in the house?
They're already there.
And now she's ready to givebirth?
Right, they were already there.
They were already somewhere.
Were they living in the house?
They're already there.
And now she's ready to givebirth and they go there's no
(06:09):
place anymore.
At the end, again, it's not asif they walked in this visual
that we have of, hey, they'rewalking into town.
Right, there's the hotel.
I'm about to give birth.
Jason (06:18):
No, it's saying it's away from the birth.
Yes, I need somewhere right now.
No, it's not like that, that'sno they were.
David (06:24):
They were already there, and then she was ready to give
birth and then there was noplace for them again.
Private room for them in thatinn.
When you bring all thattogether, this is not the visual
of an innkeeper a nasty mangoing no there's no room here.
You're about to give birth.
Get in the stables.
This changes that story alittle bit, so I come back to
(06:44):
that question he may even besorrowful, like he, almost like.
Jason (06:47):
See, I mean this theoretically.
He might even be like man Iknow what it's like.
You're about to give birth, mywife has given birth and you're
about to go through it but, like, unfortunately, by tradition, I
can't have you in here witheverybody else.
David (06:58):
A hundred percent and that's that's why I'm saying is
the question hey, this is aboutmissed opportunities to receive
blessing, or is this more aboutgod can and does show up in
unexpected places, where,wherever he wants?
Jason (07:12):
I think the answer is yes , yes and yes, right.
I mean, is this the way thestory happened?
You know, we have the.
You know we talk all the timeabout the literal, the
metaphorical, the analogy, the,the deeper meaning and so forth,
and so this is this, this isthis is a case where I think it
can and should be all of theabove you know to to understand.
I do think it changes the storya little bit.
It's not like the Jewish peoplewere going.
(07:33):
Hey you you know, get over therein the back, like it wasn't,
like a it wasn't this angry, youknow person who was, who was
Sadduceesing them, ores-ing them.
They were just saying, no,that's not the way this goes.
You know, that's not how we'restructured, that's not how we
work.
So you're going to have to dothat over there.
And you know, I don't know, forsome reason, that emotive
(07:55):
difference is different, itfeels different, it makes the
story a bit different.
But then you also have to askyourself the question are we the
innkeeper?
You know, are we being askedfor a place and being asked to
overcome our tradition ofwhatever we're used to doing?
You know, our fleshly body isused to being in control.
Our human body is used toarrogance and selfishness and so
(08:19):
forth and so on.
So when God calls, are wewilling to say you know what,
come on in.
Even though it's out of mytradition, come on in anyway.
Okay, you know, I mean.
So it can be that metaphoricalstory as well.
David (08:31):
Oh, that's good.
You know, I just while you weresaying that and you're talking
about the Pharisees and theSadducees, this is the first
time because we look at thePharisees and going because of
their tradition, they didn'tunderstand what Jesus was saying
, right?
This is actually the first timewhere tradition got in the way
of doing what was right.
Jason (08:49):
Well, got in the way of doing what was truly the loving
thing.
Yes, got in the way of doingwhat was right.
Well, got in the way of doingwhat was truly the loving thing,
yes, right, like Jesus came tosay that it's not about the
things you do, it's the heart.
You do them with, the heartfrom with which you do them.
Right, that's what he does,yeah, and so this is the very
first time that's not the case.
This is the very first timethat somebody says I see you, I
know this is a bad deal for you,but this is the way we do
(09:10):
things.
David (09:10):
Yeah, that's powerful.
I didn't think about that.
And there's that fourth versionof it where you can look at it
and go.
The tradition is really what'sholding back the Jewish people
from doing what God's truecommission is, which is forget
the tradition.
Just love me and love others,right.
Javi (09:28):
Here's the fifth version of that.
David (09:30):
Okay.
Javi (09:32):
Since you said fourth, I look at it as it's exactly what
you were saying before, in thesense of, like the tradition of
it, she couldn't be aroundothers giving pregnancy or
giving birth and he found aplace for her, or they have a
place for her.
That was, that was safe, it wascalm, it was warm, like you
were saying, and I think it washumble.
(09:54):
I think, yeah, it just playsalong with what god orchestrated
, said from the beginning thehumble birth, just the humility
of it, right of of he's not thisgreat king, he is a great king,
but he wasn't like.
He didn't come in, you know,birth through he, he wasn't
birthed and it was like in apalace.
It wasn't gold, it wasn't, youknow, many midwives and stuff
(10:16):
like that.
It was.
It was a goat, you know, andJoseph there trying to figure
out what's going on.
And I think that just plays onGod orchestrating this once
again, and I hate to put thistogether because it doesn't go
together.
But I look at Judas almost thesame way, playing in God's plan
(10:36):
for our redemption, right,although if Judas would not do
what he did to Jesus andbetraying him, we would probably
not have him on the cross.
So he played a plan in theredemption story for us.
David (10:51):
Um the innkeeper played a plan in the humility of our god
and coming to earth and withthe statement of humility again,
it just you said gold and itpopped something else, like he
wasn't born in this charity ofgold, right, he wasn't yeah but
it also reminds me of thehumility you know.
We look at another part of thestory right after is uh.
First of all, we know that theywere there for several months
(11:13):
because the wise men come.
It wasn't like they werewaiting right there, they were
looking for the signs.
Jason (11:18):
Which fun fact, how many wise men they don't actually.
David (11:21):
Yeah, it doesn't, really.
Yeah, it doesn't, it doesn't,it doesn't specify, it doesn't
say, even though we have thistradition of three.
Jason (11:26):
Yeah, it doesn't say they , they abide by three, because
the frankincense gold, gold andmyrrh.
Yeah, so they say that butthere's actually no indication
of how many there were.
That's correct and going with.
David (11:37):
I was actually leading right into the frankincense,
myrrh and gold.
Yeah, yeah, because of the gold, reminded me.
When we look at Joseph and Mary, they were not wealthy.
No, in fact, they were verypoor.
Right when they went anddedicated jesus at the temple,
they had to use poor sacrifice.
Uh, because they didn't havemoney, right.
(11:57):
But when you look at them afterthe angel said, hey, you have
to escape here, you have to goto egypt.
They went and spent a coupleyears in egypt.
How'd they do that with nomoney?
Jason (12:05):
yeah, I believe again, the gold, frankincense and myrrh
.
David (12:08):
The gold, frankincense and myrrh.
Yeah look at that God providedthat for them, because these
were wealthier materials thatthey could probably sell and
live off of while they werethere, so he was providing for
them.
Even though they had thishumble beginning he didn't give
them.
Hey, you can have a hugemansion and you're not going to
be like Joseph and eventuallybecome vizier.
(12:30):
No, we're going to give youjust enough to spend a couple of
years there.
Jason (12:33):
Well, let's go.
Let's go also to the fact thatthe wise men are wise men.
It's not three guys, right,it's not three guys came to find
this Jesus character.
No, you know, it's three wisemen, which, you know, signifies
probably regal.
You know royalty from othercountries who come to Bethlehem
to find him.
And where do they find him?
(12:54):
It's a very surprising thing.
They find him in a manger, yeah, you know.
Or they find him in thisnon-royal.
Actually, where do they gofirst?
They first go to the palace.
Yeah, they were expecting theygo to the palace, because that's
what they expected.
Yeah they didn't get that.
(13:27):
That was the whole thing.
Right, they were expecting aking, which is why Herod, did I
say that, right Her?
Expect God to come down fromthe sky and tell us what's our
next step, instead of acceptingthat, it's kind of right in
front of us and yet we're notwilling to see it, we're not
willing to acknowledge thethought that we have inside of
our head and we're not willingto give up something else to do
(13:48):
it.
You know, it's like this againthe humility versus the regality
, or the humility versus theexpectation of height and
highness is is kind of thecrucial point of all of this.
David (14:02):
Anyway, which is amazing because the story ultimately
doesn't change, right?
You know whether the innkeeperwas welcoming, whether he, you
know, said no, get out of here.
You can go in the manger, wherethe animals are, and the
stables, no matter what it is,the ultimate end of the story
happens the same.
But I wonder about today and Igo okay, if it's not about just
(14:26):
letting God in your heart allyear round and just being open
to God all year round, if italso has other other undertones
in there and going hey, god canturn up unexpectedly and are you
being humble?
And are you?
Do you have the humility andall the things we just discussed
?
I looked at today and I go.
You know, you hit the nail onthe head, jason.
(14:46):
Where are my traditions hurtingmy relationship, my openness
for God?
And am I going here, goinglisten, with so many
denominations fighting back andforth?
Is it?
Are we sticking so closely toour tradition?
Jason (15:01):
And I would even expand the word tradition in this sense
, especially to somebody whodoesn't have one you know an
atheist or an agnostic I wouldsay your habits Are your habits
getting in the way of yourrelationship with God?
Are your you know current waysof doing things getting in the
way of God?
And I think it's.
I think the answer is yes toall of us.
Right, we just have toacknowledge it.
Javi (15:23):
Yeah, I mean I look at the story a little differently.
I just look at it as God's planand that was God orchestrating
everything the way he wanted thebirth to be.
I see that I didn't seeanything more deeper to the
innkeeper than hey, man, I don'thave any room for you and
you're pregnant, I can't haveyou around other guests.
This is the best I could do andit just got orchestrating that.
(15:46):
I say that only because theangels was with them throughout
the way you know.
So if God wanted to make adifferent room, and they have
this, you know the master, youknow the, the the what do you
call it the, the.
What is it?
Jason (16:00):
The bridal suite or whatever you call it.
Javi (16:02):
Yeah, the honeymoon suite, yeah, like he could have made
it happen if he wanted to inthat way.
So that's how I see the story,um, but I understand what you're
what you're talking about.
I think you're you.
You answer something with that,david.
Jason (16:13):
I think there's also something to Javi, you, you kind
of opened something else up forme too, which is the fact that
this really is similar to theend of the story, like this is
very similar to the end of thestory.
David (16:22):
Like you know you, everybody expected him to ride
in on a white horse and a goldenpalace and come take over the
world and instead the, thehighest God of all came in on a
donkey, yeah, right, and.
Jason (16:36):
And in a manger and without anything, right, and the
end of the story.
Everybody expected him to youknow, do these crazy things?
And he ended up sitting on across with people mocking him,
calling him the King of the Jews, like he came in the way, he
went out and that's good.
And yet what he left while hewas here was so much bigger, and
it just goes to show that allof us are living so much for
(16:59):
this grand thing yeah whenprobably the reward is in
something much more humble.
Javi (17:05):
Yeah, I think it's to me is more relatable in the sense
of, like, if I was born, bornwith not much, or I was dealt
some bad cards right in life,right, people want to look at it
that way.
Man, we have a god that thatwent through the same thing you
have where he loved you so much.
Jason (17:23):
Yeah, and far worse, yeah and far worse.
Javi (17:25):
Yeah, and he's there for you to show you like, hey, I
wasn't this.
You know I wasn't on thisthrone, I wasn't given
everything to me to make thesethings happen.
No, I was.
I still struggled through a lotof things and that's not the
whole point of living to to tolive this lavish life, but just
to do good to.
With little, you could still doso much.
Right, right, um, and that'swhat I learned reading the bible
(17:47):
and reading and seeing jesuslife.
I agree it's like with so much,with so little, you can still
do so much, because people canstill look at at Jesus and go,
wait a minute.
You had this power to heal anddo all these other things.
Jason (17:57):
I don't have that, I can't do much, but so do you
right?
We do have the power to heal,we do have the power to help, we
do have the power to sacrificeparts of our lives for the
betterment of others.
We do have that power.
Javi (18:15):
And that's through the Holy Spirit and through the
sermon and through just seekingGod.
In that way we're able to touchother people's lives and make
it better, help them out thebest we can.
David (18:25):
You know, even when you talk about humility, we look at
again the story of when they'realready there, even going to
Bethlehem.
Yeah, being in Bethlehem andborn there.
It's only a place of a couplehundred people.
Javi (18:40):
The Hebrew name Beit Lechem literally means house of
bread, were they all in that innthere was no room.
David (18:47):
A few hundred of them, they were all there.
Javi (18:48):
That's the other thing.
Right, they were going for acensus.
Right, they were all flockingback to where they're from,
which is what made it full.
Jason (18:54):
Which is also why the inn was full, which, by the way,
going back full circle, that'sprobably why the inn was full.
Right, that's what I'm saying.
David (18:58):
Well, that and we also have to understand again.
This is going back to Jewishtradition and our thoughts and
our brain.
We have this thought that, likewe know, the houses weren of
kids they're living in a coupleof rooms, cohabitation, right,
typically it was one room, yeah.
And then even when you had, uh,slaves that were there, when you
(19:22):
had other family members werein there, when people came back
in a town, you invited them in.
They have records of up to 50people sleeping in a room.
Um, this was not again.
This was not Again.
Another reason why it wasn'tthere was no room at the end.
There was room, there was noplace, and where were they
sleeping?
Javi (19:37):
Probably on the floor, on the floor when Mary was able to
Give birth, on hay Right.
Some support Some kind of likeLittle bit comfortable Spot to
give birth To our Our god.
You ever lay on hay Javi.
Jason (19:49):
Huh, you ever lay on hay.
Did I say hay?
Yeah, I mean, but if you'reever laid on hay, it's not
comfortable.
Javi (19:53):
No, I bet it's not.
I'm just telling you it'sprobably better than a floor.
David (19:56):
Probably, unless you're allergic.
No, but it is.
It wasn't that much better.
I'm just saying the humilitystarted from the very beginning.
It was, this was the town thatwas going to happen to several
hundred people in a house.
That was probably multiplepeople moving there to the back
of the cave, where behind, evenwhere the animals are.
I mean one after the other,after the other.
(20:18):
We do see that.
So I think it's.
It is probably what you said inthe beginning, jason.
Jason (20:21):
Yes, yes, yes and yes, it's all the above, it's all of
them and that's what it is.
David (20:25):
It is about humility, is about, you know, god wanting
people to put in his heart.
It's about tradition andstopping away and I mean, man,
it's just, this story has somuch more than just a couple of
lines and it just there's somuch packed into that.
Javi (20:41):
It's just really the glory .
That reminds me of what Jasonsaid before, just kind of the
ending of Jesus going to thecross.
It's exactly that.
It's the humility part of it.
It's the tradition that got inthe way of people.
Jason (20:53):
That's what I'm saying.
The whole story repeats itselfover and over and over.
Javi (20:56):
It's so consistent that's whoa, Isn't it?
Jason (20:58):
It's really consistent.
Javi (20:59):
We just unbound that right there, yeah.
Jason (21:03):
I don't want to keep saying the same thing over and
over, but this is the thingabout the whole Bible.
Javi (21:07):
It's profound yeah.
Jason (21:08):
The whole Bible does this .
David (21:09):
You said that for the Old Testament forever.
Jason (21:11):
Jason.
It's just like if it hasn'tbeen beaten into your head by
now, you're not going to get it,just keep paying.
All you have to do is pay alittle attention.
You're going to see patternafter pattern after pattern
after pattern after patternevolve, and that's what teaches
you about the nature of God,that's what teaches you about
the nature of Jesus and thenature of humanity, and that's
what the whole Bible is.
It's just patterns teaching youabout who God is, through those
(21:37):
patterns, amen.
Javi (21:38):
Amen.
David (21:39):
David thanks for the question.
This is a solid one.
No, this one, listen, Iappreciate you guys.
Like I said, I was going backand forth in my brain and you
guys just opened it up.
I guess I should thank you andnot thank you, because you just
put, you know, three differentlevels in my brain to think yeah
.
But I do appreciate you kind oftaking some grace and talking a
little bit about our Christmasstory in March.
Yeah, awesome.
Jason (21:57):
This was great.
So, guys, thanks a lot forjoining us as well.
We appreciate your time.
We appreciate the likes,follows, listens, subscribes.
So the more the merrier, and wehope to talk to you again soon.
Have a good day, see you.
See you, guys.
Welcome to the Boundless Bible.
My name is David Shapiro, hey,I'm Javi Marquez and I'm Jason
Holloway.
Welcome to the Boundless Bible.
I am excited but also a littlebit confused to talk about what
I want to bring up today if youguys don't mind giving me a
little bit of leeway becauseit's March, and what I'm going
(00:26):
to mind giving me a little bitof leeway because it's March and
what I'm going to talk abouthas a little bit to do with the
Christmas story that everybodyhas heard of, which is good
because you'll be familiar withthe story, but I have some
questions on it.
One particular question, andthis one I actually need your
help to answer, because I wasstudying and I got to a point
where I'm going man, I might'vebeen wrong about what I assumed
(00:47):
this Christmas story was about,and this has to do with the
innkeeper.
This has to do with the pointof the story of there's no room
at the inn, which, again, we'veheard that if you go to
Christmas services, you'veprobably heard the story.
But the question I have is isthis a story about missed
opportunities to receiveblessings, which we've heard, or
(01:11):
is this a story about makingroom for Jesus?
And sermons discuss like, hey,don't miss your opportunity all
year round to make room forJesus, making room at the end.
Or and I'm going to kind ofpose this this way is is this
about god can show up and doesshow up in unexpected places and
(01:31):
circumstances.
Jason (01:32):
Yeah, even when you're not ready for it right, yes, and
and should you be ready to letthem in?
David (01:37):
that's kind of the well that and and I'll tell you
something interesting, and I'mjust going to read this passage,
and what it is is it's luke 2,7, okay, and what it says
specifically is and she gavebirth to her firstborn son and
wrapped him in swaddling clothsand laid him in a manger because
there was no place for them atthe end.
Yeah, let me, let me read thatlast line.
There was no place for him atthe end.
(01:58):
Not, there was no room at theend.
There was no place for him atthe end.
And this is the part I was like, wait a minute, why wouldn't
they just say there's no room?
At the end, they say there's noplace for him.
And I started to realize thatwhen you look at the culture of
Israel, israelis would alwayshelp a neighbor.
(02:19):
Joseph was a Bethlehemite, helived in Bethlehem, that's where
he was born, that was his home.
So you have a son who comeshome with a pregnant woman.
They would never say there's noroom.
It's just not something thatthe Jewish tradition would have
allowed.
And if we're saying this is aJewish village, I believe that
(02:40):
there was a room at the inn.
That's my first kind ofshocking moment.
And go well, what does thatmean?
There's no place.
What I think happened was sheis a birthing woman.
Exactly, a birthing womancannot be around other people
because she would be.
Yeah, she needs to be unclean,she'd be unclean, right.
(03:02):
And now she had a boy, so she'sunclean for 40 days.
If she had a boy, so she'sunclean for 40 days.
If she had a girl, it wouldhave been 60 days according to
jewish tradition.
Okay, but she was unclean, soit wasn't.
There was no room.
At the end.
It was hey, we have room here,but there's all these people
here, right, so you can't be inthis room.
However, if you go to the backof the stables where there are
(03:22):
no people, yeah, you can nowgive birth, because, remember
back then, not only you'reunclean from the blood in the
area, but you're not allowed totidy up your home.
You're not allowed to cook,right, if you're getting fed,
they actually put on a tray.
Put the tray on the floor, moveaway.
You pick up the tray to eat.
The only thing you can do iscare for your child.
Yeah, you can't do that in in aplace that other people are
(03:47):
living.
Yeah, so I think no place atthe end was no, there was room
at the end, but there was noplace.
Jason (03:52):
The amp bible actually says here it says and she gave
birth to her son, her firstborn,and she wrapped him in
swaddling clothes that's thesubtext and laid him in a manger
because there was no subtextprivate room for them in the inn
, right?
So again you're back to thatword private, and I think you're
.
You're back onto something.
I mean it's like the traditionwas keeping them from being with
(04:13):
the people, not the actualspatial arrangement necessarily.
David (04:18):
And, uh, we always have this vision again, it's, it's
movies.
It's you know, a movie comesout and we go oh, that must have
been what it is.
We have this vision of it's ahotel, which it does not say a
hotel, the.
The word in is actuallydifferent.
In hebrew it's kataluma, whichmeans lodging place or upper
room.
It's the same word used whenjesus went to the upper room to
(04:38):
have his passover meal with, soit could have been upper room.
When you look at bethlehem andthe way that their homes were,
you had the home in the frontand behind it was a cave system.
That's where they had.
Their animals was in the caveand what it produced was heat,
because you had all of themliving behind them.
So you had the heat that theyproduced, but they also couldn't
(05:01):
leave without you knowing,because they're behind, where
the house is.
Um, so it's not these stablesthat we look at today in this
farm system, and you know, we,we think about, you know, uh,
the, the movie yellowstone inmontana, where you have the
stables, and that's wherethey're living.
And you know, or it's a barn,no, this was.
It would have been a cavesystem, living behind the house,
and mary and joseph would havebeen at the very back, they
(05:25):
would have been behind all ofthe animals and that's where
they would have given birth toJesus.
So it's just all of the visualsthat we have from this story
changes a little bit when youlook at the exact wording and
you look at the Hebrewtranslation of it, and and it's,
it's just something where, ifyou look at the line beforehand,
(05:48):
it also gives some clue.
Um, and the line beforehand saysthey had to go back to
Bethlehem for the registry Maryhas patrolled who's with child,
and while they were there, itcame time for her to give birth.
Right, they were already there.
They were already somewhere.
Were they living in the house?
They're already there.
And now she's ready to givebirth?
Right, they were already there.
They were already somewhere.
Were they living in the house?
They're already there.
And now she's ready to givebirth and they go there's no
(06:09):
place anymore.
At the end, again, it's not asif they walked in this visual
that we have of, hey, they'rewalking into town.
Right, there's the hotel.
I'm about to give birth.
Jason (06:18):
No, it's saying it's away from the birth.
Yes, I need somewhere right now.
No, it's not like that, that'sno they were.
David (06:24):
They were already there, and then she was ready to give
birth and then there was noplace for them again.
Private room for them in thatinn.
When you bring all thattogether, this is not the visual
of an innkeeper a nasty mangoing no there's no room here.
You're about to give birth.
Get in the stables.
This changes that story alittle bit, so I come back to
(06:44):
that question he may even besorrowful, like he, almost like.
Jason (06:47):
See, I mean this theoretically.
He might even be like man Iknow what it's like.
You're about to give birth, mywife has given birth and you're
about to go through it but, like, unfortunately, by tradition, I
can't have you in here witheverybody else.
David (06:58):
A hundred percent and that's that's why I'm saying is
the question hey, this is aboutmissed opportunities to receive
blessing, or is this more aboutgod can and does show up in
unexpected places, where,wherever he wants?
Jason (07:12):
I think the answer is yes , yes and yes, right.
I mean, is this the way thestory happened?
You know, we have the.
You know we talk all the timeabout the literal, the
metaphorical, the analogy, the,the deeper meaning and so forth,
and so this is this, this isthis is a case where I think it
can and should be all of theabove you know to to understand.
I do think it changes the storya little bit.
It's not like the Jewish peoplewere going.
(07:33):
Hey you you know, get over therein the back, like it wasn't,
like a it wasn't this angry, youknow person who was, who was
Sadduceesing them, ores-ing them.
They were just saying, no,that's not the way this goes.
You know, that's not how we'restructured, that's not how we
work.
So you're going to have to dothat over there.
And you know, I don't know, forsome reason, that emotive
(07:55):
difference is different, itfeels different, it makes the
story a bit different.
But then you also have to askyourself the question are we the
innkeeper?
You know, are we being askedfor a place and being asked to
overcome our tradition ofwhatever we're used to doing?
You know, our fleshly body isused to being in control.
Our human body is used toarrogance and selfishness and so
(08:19):
forth and so on.
So when God calls, are wewilling to say you know what,
come on in.
Even though it's out of mytradition, come on in anyway.
Okay, you know, I mean.
So it can be that metaphoricalstory as well.
David (08:31):
Oh, that's good.
You know, I just while you weresaying that and you're talking
about the Pharisees and theSadducees, this is the first
time because we look at thePharisees and going because of
their tradition, they didn'tunderstand what Jesus was saying
, right?
This is actually the first timewhere tradition got in the way
of doing what was right.
Jason (08:49):
Well, got in the way of doing what was truly the loving
thing.
Yes, got in the way of doingwhat was right.
Well, got in the way of doingwhat was truly the loving thing,
yes, right, like Jesus came tosay that it's not about the
things you do, it's the heart.
You do them with, the heartfrom with which you do them.
Right, that's what he does,yeah, and so this is the very
first time that's not the case.
This is the very first timethat somebody says I see you, I
know this is a bad deal for you,but this is the way we do
(09:10):
things.
David (09:10):
Yeah, that's powerful.
I didn't think about that.
And there's that fourth versionof it where you can look at it
and go.
The tradition is really what'sholding back the Jewish people
from doing what God's truecommission is, which is forget
the tradition.
Just love me and love others,right.
Javi (09:28):
Here's the fifth version of that.
David (09:30):
Okay.
Javi (09:32):
Since you said fourth, I look at it as it's exactly what
you were saying before, in thesense of, like the tradition of
it, she couldn't be aroundothers giving pregnancy or
giving birth and he found aplace for her, or they have a
place for her.
That was, that was safe, it wascalm, it was warm, like you
were saying, and I think it washumble.
(09:54):
I think, yeah, it just playsalong with what god orchestrated
, said from the beginning thehumble birth, just the humility
of it, right of of he's not thisgreat king, he is a great king,
but he wasn't like.
He didn't come in, you know,birth through he, he wasn't
birthed and it was like in apalace.
It wasn't gold, it wasn't, youknow, many midwives and stuff
(10:16):
like that.
It was.
It was a goat, you know, andJoseph there trying to figure
out what's going on.
And I think that just plays onGod orchestrating this once
again, and I hate to put thistogether because it doesn't go
together.
But I look at Judas almost thesame way, playing in God's plan
(10:36):
for our redemption, right,although if Judas would not do
what he did to Jesus andbetraying him, we would probably
not have him on the cross.
So he played a plan in theredemption story for us.
David (10:51):
Um the innkeeper played a plan in the humility of our god
and coming to earth and withthe statement of humility again,
it just you said gold and itpopped something else, like he
wasn't born in this charity ofgold, right, he wasn't yeah but
it also reminds me of thehumility you know.
We look at another part of thestory right after is uh.
First of all, we know that theywere there for several months
(11:13):
because the wise men come.
It wasn't like they werewaiting right there, they were
looking for the signs.
Jason (11:18):
Which fun fact, how many wise men they don't actually.
David (11:21):
Yeah, it doesn't, really.
Yeah, it doesn't, it doesn't,it doesn't specify, it doesn't
say, even though we have thistradition of three.
Jason (11:26):
Yeah, it doesn't say they , they abide by three, because
the frankincense gold, gold andmyrrh.
Yeah, so they say that butthere's actually no indication
of how many there were.
That's correct and going with.
David (11:37):
I was actually leading right into the frankincense,
myrrh and gold.
Yeah, yeah, because of the gold, reminded me.
When we look at Joseph and Mary, they were not wealthy.
No, in fact, they were verypoor.
Right when they went anddedicated jesus at the temple,
they had to use poor sacrifice.
Uh, because they didn't havemoney, right.
(11:57):
But when you look at them afterthe angel said, hey, you have
to escape here, you have to goto egypt.
They went and spent a coupleyears in egypt.
How'd they do that with nomoney?
Jason (12:05):
yeah, I believe again, the gold, frankincense and myrrh
.
David (12:08):
The gold, frankincense and myrrh.
Yeah look at that God providedthat for them, because these
were wealthier materials thatthey could probably sell and
live off of while they werethere, so he was providing for
them.
Even though they had thishumble beginning he didn't give
them.
Hey, you can have a hugemansion and you're not going to
be like Joseph and eventuallybecome vizier.
(12:30):
No, we're going to give youjust enough to spend a couple of
years there.
Jason (12:33):
Well, let's go.
Let's go also to the fact thatthe wise men are wise men.
It's not three guys, right,it's not three guys came to find
this Jesus character.
No, you know, it's three wisemen, which, you know, signifies
probably regal.
You know royalty from othercountries who come to Bethlehem
to find him.
And where do they find him?
(12:54):
It's a very surprising thing.
They find him in a manger, yeah, you know.
Or they find him in thisnon-royal.
Actually, where do they gofirst?
They first go to the palace.
Yeah, they were expecting theygo to the palace, because that's
what they expected.
Yeah they didn't get that.
(13:27):
That was the whole thing.
Right, they were expecting aking, which is why Herod, did I
say that, right Her?
Expect God to come down fromthe sky and tell us what's our
next step, instead of acceptingthat, it's kind of right in
front of us and yet we're notwilling to see it, we're not
willing to acknowledge thethought that we have inside of
our head and we're not willingto give up something else to do
(13:48):
it.
You know, it's like this againthe humility versus the regality
, or the humility versus theexpectation of height and
highness is is kind of thecrucial point of all of this.
David (14:02):
Anyway, which is amazing because the story ultimately
doesn't change, right?
You know whether the innkeeperwas welcoming, whether he, you
know, said no, get out of here.
You can go in the manger, wherethe animals are, and the
stables, no matter what it is,the ultimate end of the story
happens the same.
But I wonder about today and Igo okay, if it's not about just
(14:26):
letting God in your heart allyear round and just being open
to God all year round, if italso has other other undertones
in there and going hey, god canturn up unexpectedly and are you
being humble?
And are you?
Do you have the humility andall the things we just discussed
?
I looked at today and I go.
You know, you hit the nail onthe head, jason.
(14:46):
Where are my traditions hurtingmy relationship, my openness
for God?
And am I going here, goinglisten, with so many
denominations fighting back andforth?
Is it?
Are we sticking so closely toour tradition?
Jason (15:01):
And I would even expand the word tradition in this sense
, especially to somebody whodoesn't have one you know an
atheist or an agnostic I wouldsay your habits Are your habits
getting in the way of yourrelationship with God?
Are your you know current waysof doing things getting in the
way of God?
And I think it's.
I think the answer is yes toall of us.
Right, we just have toacknowledge it.
Javi (15:23):
Yeah, I mean I look at the story a little differently.
I just look at it as God's planand that was God orchestrating
everything the way he wanted thebirth to be.
I see that I didn't seeanything more deeper to the
innkeeper than hey, man, I don'thave any room for you and
you're pregnant, I can't haveyou around other guests.
This is the best I could do andit just got orchestrating that.
(15:46):
I say that only because theangels was with them throughout
the way you know.
So if God wanted to make adifferent room, and they have
this, you know the master, youknow the, the the what do you
call it the, the.
What is it?
Jason (16:00):
The bridal suite or whatever you call it.
Javi (16:02):
Yeah, the honeymoon suite, yeah, like he could have made
it happen if he wanted to inthat way.
So that's how I see the story,um, but I understand what you're
what you're talking about.
I think you're you.
You answer something with that,david.
Jason (16:13):
I think there's also something to Javi, you, you kind
of opened something else up forme too, which is the fact that
this really is similar to theend of the story, like this is
very similar to the end of thestory.
David (16:22):
Like you know you, everybody expected him to ride
in on a white horse and a goldenpalace and come take over the
world and instead the, thehighest God of all came in on a
donkey, yeah, right, and.
Jason (16:36):
And in a manger and without anything, right, and the
end of the story.
Everybody expected him to youknow, do these crazy things?
And he ended up sitting on across with people mocking him,
calling him the King of the Jews, like he came in the way, he
went out and that's good.
And yet what he left while hewas here was so much bigger, and
it just goes to show that allof us are living so much for
(16:59):
this grand thing yeah whenprobably the reward is in
something much more humble.
Javi (17:05):
Yeah, I think it's to me is more relatable in the sense
of, like, if I was born, bornwith not much, or I was dealt
some bad cards right in life,right, people want to look at it
that way.
Man, we have a god that thatwent through the same thing you
have where he loved you so much.
Jason (17:23):
Yeah, and far worse, yeah and far worse.
Javi (17:25):
Yeah, and he's there for you to show you like, hey, I
wasn't this.
You know I wasn't on thisthrone, I wasn't given
everything to me to make thesethings happen.
No, I was.
I still struggled through a lotof things and that's not the
whole point of living to to tolive this lavish life, but just
to do good to.
With little, you could still doso much.
Right, right, um, and that'swhat I learned reading the bible
(17:47):
and reading and seeing jesuslife.
I agree it's like with so much,with so little, you can still
do so much, because people canstill look at at Jesus and go,
wait a minute.
You had this power to heal anddo all these other things.
Jason (17:57):
I don't have that, I can't do much, but so do you
right?
We do have the power to heal,we do have the power to help, we
do have the power to sacrificeparts of our lives for the
betterment of others.
We do have that power.
Javi (18:15):
And that's through the Holy Spirit and through the
sermon and through just seekingGod.
In that way we're able to touchother people's lives and make
it better, help them out thebest we can.
David (18:25):
You know, even when you talk about humility, we look at
again the story of when they'realready there, even going to
Bethlehem.
Yeah, being in Bethlehem andborn there.
It's only a place of a couplehundred people.
Javi (18:40):
The Hebrew name Beit Lechem literally means house of
bread, were they all in that innthere was no room.
David (18:47):
A few hundred of them, they were all there.
Javi (18:48):
That's the other thing.
Right, they were going for acensus.
Right, they were all flockingback to where they're from,
which is what made it full.
Jason (18:54):
Which is also why the inn was full, which, by the way,
going back full circle, that'sprobably why the inn was full.
Right, that's what I'm saying.
David (18:58):
Well, that and we also have to understand again.
This is going back to Jewishtradition and our thoughts and
our brain.
We have this thought that, likewe know, the houses weren of
kids they're living in a coupleof rooms, cohabitation, right,
typically it was one room, yeah.
And then even when you had, uh,slaves that were there, when you
(19:22):
had other family members werein there, when people came back
in a town, you invited them in.
They have records of up to 50people sleeping in a room.
Um, this was not again.
This was not Again.
Another reason why it wasn'tthere was no room at the end.
There was room, there was noplace, and where were they
sleeping?
Javi (19:37):
Probably on the floor, on the floor when Mary was able to
Give birth, on hay Right.
Some support Some kind of likeLittle bit comfortable Spot to
give birth To our Our god.
You ever lay on hay Javi.
Jason (19:49):
Huh, you ever lay on hay.
Did I say hay?
Yeah, I mean, but if you'reever laid on hay, it's not
comfortable.
Javi (19:53):
No, I bet it's not.
I'm just telling you it'sprobably better than a floor.
David (19:56):
Probably, unless you're allergic.
No, but it is.
It wasn't that much better.
I'm just saying the humilitystarted from the very beginning.
It was, this was the town thatwas going to happen to several
hundred people in a house.
That was probably multiplepeople moving there to the back
of the cave, where behind, evenwhere the animals are.
I mean one after the other,after the other.
(20:18):
We do see that.
So I think it's.
It is probably what you said inthe beginning, jason.
Jason (20:21):
Yes, yes, yes and yes, it's all the above, it's all of
them and that's what it is.
David (20:25):
It is about humility, is about, you know, god wanting
people to put in his heart.
It's about tradition andstopping away and I mean, man,
it's just, this story has somuch more than just a couple of
lines and it just there's somuch packed into that.
Javi (20:41):
It's just really the glory .
That reminds me of what Jasonsaid before, just kind of the
ending of Jesus going to thecross.
It's exactly that.
It's the humility part of it.
It's the tradition that got inthe way of people.
Jason (20:53):
That's what I'm saying.
The whole story repeats itselfover and over and over.
Javi (20:56):
It's so consistent that's whoa, Isn't it?
Jason (20:58):
It's really consistent.
Javi (20:59):
We just unbound that right there, yeah.
Jason (21:03):
I don't want to keep saying the same thing over and
over, but this is the thingabout the whole Bible.
Javi (21:07):
It's profound yeah.
Jason (21:08):
The whole Bible does this .
David (21:09):
You said that for the Old Testament forever.
Jason (21:11):
Jason.
It's just like if it hasn'tbeen beaten into your head by
now, you're not going to get it,just keep paying.
All you have to do is pay alittle attention.
You're going to see patternafter pattern after pattern
after pattern after patternevolve, and that's what teaches
you about the nature of God,that's what teaches you about
the nature of Jesus and thenature of humanity, and that's
what the whole Bible is.
It's just patterns teaching youabout who God is, through those
(21:37):
patterns, amen.
Javi (21:38):
Amen.
David (21:39):
David thanks for the question.
This is a solid one.
No, this one, listen, Iappreciate you guys.
Like I said, I was going backand forth in my brain and you
guys just opened it up.
I guess I should thank you andnot thank you, because you just
put, you know, three differentlevels in my brain to think yeah
.
But I do appreciate you kind oftaking some grace and talking a
little bit about our Christmasstory in March.
Yeah, awesome.
Jason (21:57):
This was great.
So, guys, thanks a lot forjoining us as well.
We appreciate your time.
We appreciate the likes,follows, listens, subscribes.
So the more the merrier, and wehope to talk to you again soon.
Have a good day, see you.
See you, guys.
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