July 27, 2023 • 21 mins
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YUCCO STUCCO!! Lot's of questions out there about Stucco on Homes. Many times there's bad things happening behind it and it's extremely costly to repair/replace. Rick walks us through the truths and the myths about Stucco.
Want to be in the know about the lasting debate of Stucco versus Vinyl Siding? You're in for a treat as we have with us Rick Herbert from L&L General Contractors, who will not only clear your doubts but also give you some deep insights into these complex topics. Together, we dissect the current installation requirements for Stucco, the differences among its three types: Cementitious, Hard Coat, and EIFS, and the pitfalls of improper window and door installation.
Get ready for a rollercoaster ride as Rick enlightens us on the potential benefits of siding over stucco, especially with products such as Wolf PVC, Cement Board, and CertainTeed's wide plank, insulated vinyl siding. He shares with us how you can get in touch with him for a deeper understanding of these subjects. If Stucco has been on your mind or you're considering it for your home, this episode will provide you with a wealth of knowledge and direction. Join us!
#rickherbert #realestateandyou #bradweisman #realestate #realestateagent #stucco
We know self tanners. We love self tanners. To us, self-tanner for men are a necessary part of life. You see a pale dude on the street and he looks like a fish out of water. It's a real problem, bro. But this exact passion for self-tanner is why Bro Glo is so rad.
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Welcome to The Brad Weisman Show, where we dive into the world of real estate, real life, and everything in between with your host, Brad Weisman! 🎙️ Join us for candid conversations, laughter, and a fresh take on the real world. Get ready to explore the ups and downs of life with a side of humor. From property to personality, we've got it all covered. Tune in, laugh along, and let's get real! 🏡🌟 #TheBradWeismanShow #RealEstateRealLife
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello, this is Brad Weizmann.
You're listening to Real Estateand you we're back in the
studio.
We are here to talk about atopic that you are probably
hearing a lot about out there,and if you have Stucco on your
house, you will probably want toturn this off because you're
going to puke in your mouth.
But no, this is a really goodshow.
It's called Yucco Stucco and Ihave the well, I won't say
(00:23):
expert, because he told me notto say this, but we have Rick
Herbert here from L&L.
It's a construction.
It's a construction group.
Is it L&L group?
What is it called now?
L&l?
general contractors, generalcontractors there we go.
I didn't say that one at all.
I got them all except for thatone.
But no, rick is the person thatwe go to when we have questions
about Stucco and a lot ofdifferent things.
(00:43):
Rick does everything, but oneof the things that you excel in
and that we feel that peoplefeel comfortable working with
you on is Stucco, and it's a big.
It's a big thing.
Today we're seeing a lot ofissues with Stucco that have
worked.
That was done in the past.
People thought this stuff wasgoing to last forever and it
didn't.
So what?
Tell me what's going on?
Give me an overview of what'shappening with Stucco a little
(01:05):
bit.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Okay, the installation method that was
used years ago.
I'd say years ago maybe like 15years, 15 years ago or more.
Right, the installation methodthat was used at that time was
improper, okay.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Okay, so the whole thing was improper.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Well, what we found out was there was two big issues
, okay.
Number one the way windows anddoors were installed at that
time.
Looks like it was missing somepan flashing, okay, and it even
though window and doormanufacturers might have said,
hey, we require head flashing,okay, that wasn't done
consistently Right.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Is it the cut costs Is?
Speaker 2 (01:44):
that why this stuff happens.
It looks like that, yeah, so Iwould say we've seen a lot more
evidence of it on a trackbuilder.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Okay, but you know, in some large, very large custom
homes we've seen it also, andin some cases I don't.
I couldn't answer that question, except it doesn't make much
sense.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
So not all Stucco failures look the same.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
No, they're quite different.
So there's a.
There's a couple things Isnumber one if, when the Stucco
is installed, there'srequirements today.
So the requirements today are,you know, there's multiple
layers of vapor barriers,there's a rain screen which is
like a drainage mat and thenthere's a required thickness of
the Stucco itself, the base coat, the, the uh part coat and the
(02:27):
finish coat, so altogether it'sabout an inch thick today.
Oh wow, where?
Um, the last house that we didthe remediation work which is
removal the Stucco, the fullthickness of Stucco was a half
an inch, oh wow.
So that's like that's half thethickness that it is today, yeah
.
You know.
And, um, if you have that, youknow.
So the body of that Stucconeeds to have strength.
(02:49):
Yeah, it's held together withwireless or some cases it's, you
know, exterior or EIFS.
Efis is more of a um, isn't itmore pliable, isn't it?
It's a foam based Stucco, okay,okay.
So there's three differentthings that we should start with
Cementitious StuccoCementitious.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
Stucco.
Hey, hugo, write that down.
I want to use that for a lot ofthings that sounds fancy Can.
I just use that for anythingyou think.
Yes, cementitious, you knowthat's very cementitious of you.
You like that?
Speaker 2 (03:18):
That worked pretty good, well, go ahead.
What are the other ones?
Um, then you have a hard coatStucco which has a Stucco over
top of a cement base but has anElastomeric finish.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
Okay, which is flexible?
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
And then you have um, your EIFS, which is a foam base
, and that's the one we see alot of right, yeah, like, for
instance, example, a lot oftimes office buildings.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
Yes, in this vicinity we'll have exterior insulation
board up, yeah, very thick,sometimes inches and a half, and
then you'll see you'll, you'llhave a gray motor coat over top
of that and then they put itssynthetic finish on top.
So it's a good product.
It's meant to be, you know,durable, but it's also meant to
have a insulation factor.
Okay so, but Stucco itself is aguy I feel is a good product.
(04:01):
Right, it was just.
It looks as if the productsthat were used were not used
right, weren't used right, andthe, the, the mason's at the
time, some of them didn't dothree coats.
So when I say three coats whenyou put up your wire laugh, and
you do a scratch coat.
That's considered one process,Gotcha.
The next coat will be yourbrown coat, almost like a
plaster coat that gives you yourthickness and your body of the
(04:22):
Stucco.
And the last coat is your, yourfinished coat.
It's the, it's the you know,the creamy cement finish or the
creamy like last America finish,and if that was done properly
with, with flashing done, theright way, you know you might
have some issues if it'sexcessive cracking, but you
typically wouldn't have what wehave today.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
Yeah, and there's some really bad pictures I've
seen.
I mean, you did my parentshouse, yes, and you know I saw
what was behind their wall andthat's the thing too it's you
never know how bad it is.
I mean, you can do those coresamples.
And I saw you did that with myparents house and he was having
an issue opening his windows.
Yeah, because it was actuallyswelling right.
I guess it was swelling thewood that much that his vinyl
(05:06):
windows were starting to come inand he couldn't get the windows
up.
Is that something that, ifsomebody has that situation?
they should look into if theyhave stucco right.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Yeah, so today they require us to have a, an
expansion joint around everywindow or door, at the soffit
areas, wherever stucco wouldmeet a dissimilar material like
wood etc.
And it's about three eighths ofan inch thick, that that
expansion, and we have to have acarot in there and caulk so it
allows for that movement,because that window, when it
(05:35):
heats up, is going to move.
Yeah, it's, it's vinyl.
And today you see there's a lotof black windows out there.
Yeah, they're really moving.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
Oh, I didn't even think about that because of the
heat and the heat, oh mygoodness.
Yes, so it's important.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
You know it's not one thing and you know we've seen
homes that were done.
Okay, in Chester County, forexample, that one house is
completely ripped off, yeah.
The next house, two out of foursides were absolutely fine when
they did the motion test andtwo to the elevations were had
to come off, yeah.
And in that situation whatwe've seen is the way the sun,
(06:09):
if the sun warms up the home, ifit's rise it out yeah,
interesting.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
So like a southern exposure area might be better.
So, okay, I have it.
I'm just going to say,hypothetically, I have a house
that's just full stucco off allfour sides.
What am I looking for?
What?
Now I get into my house, Ilisten to this podcast, I go
back to my house, I start cryingfirst, actually, but then after
that I like okay, what, what amI looking for?
What are the signs?
Speaker 2 (06:33):
What I would say to you.
If anything is over 15 yearsold, I would have it tested by a
third party.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
Okay, and how does that work?
Speaker 2 (06:39):
Well, what I what I believe is that I believe that
stucco is also a storm chasingcontractors dream Okay, got it.
So you almost want to do alittle separation.
You want to hire a third partytesting company?
That's not a contractor acontractor, Got it.
So you don't want recurb to saythat house needs to be ripped
down without having someone elseProviding the data got you, and
(07:00):
then that makes sense foranything that you do.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
Don't.
Don't.
Don't hire the contractor.
Hire the the expert at it firstand then call the contractor to
repair the issue.
That makes sense to me.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
Yeah, a lot of times the, the testing companies now
will give very good data tosupport what needs to happen and
it gives the homeowner Justjust a better view.
Yes, I want to rip this off.
Right, do I want to do repair,and it comes down to a lot of
times.
Do you want a warranty?
Speaker 1 (07:25):
Yeah, right, right, because if we do a repair yeah,
it's just a repair in a certainarea there's no warranty
involved now what you're sayingis that I'm just taking a
certain area there's maybe acrack in it or showing something
going on.
You're saying you'll just,you'll, you'll repair it, but
you're not tearing it all offright we make.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
We might cut an area up, a little windows three foot
by three foot, yep and repairthe damaged wood, put it back
together and then basically justRestuck over that face of it
Gotcha.
But we really haven't changedthe process of what caused the
leak to happen, gotcha, gotcha,and we've done that and what and
when we do that, of course thecost is less.
Yeah, there's no warranty,right, if we were, if we do a
(08:03):
remediation.
For me the remediation meanstop to bottom, right off the
right on that specific elevation, gotcha, not mean that the
entire house has to come offright, it just means that out
and and what that does is Then Ican have it, I can have
somebody else, I could have aBorough township, I could have
you know, like a company likecraft codes, for sure they could
(08:23):
inspect it.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
Right, it was done properly To today's code
standard gotcha, and then thatway it goes back together, and
then you want that for a littlebit of time.
Yeah okay, interesting.
You know, and I know with mydad's, it wasn't easy to.
You guys knew where the issuewas, yes, but it wasn't like it
was like an easy fix of findingthe problem.
It was a water problem comingoff the roof, from what I
(08:46):
remember, and I remember alsoyou saying to my dad you know
it's gonna be here here and hereand he's like I don't know.
You know, and then he wouldcall me and I'd say, yeah, I'm
pretty sure Rick is right aboutthat, because I've seen it have
before and at the end of the day, their house looks.
It looks Amazing, it looks likeit was never an issue.
And I saw that you guys Touredall the way down to the wood and
I remember seeing the wood wasbasically put your finger
through it.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
I mean, that's the part that blows my mind there.
Well, there's one thing whenplywood is bad, but there's
another thing when thestructural wood behind it's bad,
that's a problem.
That's holding up the exteriorof your home Absolutely, and and
that's where we see we get alot of issues with pests.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
Yeah, ants, yeah, really do a lot of damage once
the wood gets soft termites.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
Yeah, then they love it and they just tear it apart,
yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
so it's like kind of like you're kind of feeding it
to them, yeah we found that wefound an issue that that really
kind of stands out and I'llbring it to you.
So when homes were built, say15 years or more ago, yeah, they
were using OSB, which isoriented strand board.
It's a, basically shavings ofplywood glued together, yep, and
it forms of plywood sheet, yep.
It is about half the cost,maybe more than half the cost,
(09:50):
of a really a traditional pieceof plywood, yep.
So it was very common forpeople to use that.
Well, it's a sponge, yeah,right.
So I'm not telling me that was.
That's what caused the stuccoproblems, but any moisture that
gets behind the stucco.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
Now, it, it's just, it just sucks it in.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
Yeah, it's wicking then too the vapor, the vapor
barriers that they use back then, compared to ones that are
using now, the standard is quitedifferent.
Yeah, they're much better.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
Like a house wrap type thing, or yeah, gotcha, and
they a lot of times.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
they'll consider, they'll want us to do two layers
today, oh wow.
So one's almost like asacrificial layer, you know.
And then the other layer is isthe protection Rain screens,
like I said, and then theimportant part is like, around,
like, around, like thattelevision screen right there.
Yeah, that was a window.
They what code requires todaywhich is outstanding for, like
your, your cavity?
(10:36):
So if you have a window that'soutside the cavity, before you
put it in the way, we waterproofthe entire cavity.
Yeah, so what it what it doesget to it?
Yeah, it's meant that it candrain out.
It doesn't go anywhere nearyour water to structure of your
home.
Yeah, so I like the process andit does work.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
Yeah, so you know, there was always.
Everybody kept saying well, itwas never meant to be used here,
it should be in Florida.
It was meant to be in Floridabecause our temperatures are
varying too much here in theNortheast.
Is there any kind of validityto that?
I think so.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
Yeah, okay, because I see, here's the, here's the
issue.
When water gets in, like so ifyou take a cup or a gallon of
water and you pour it onsomething that's pours like a
stucco wall and then it snapfreezes.
So when someone water freezes,expands.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
Expands right.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
That's where we see cracking, especially in some
stucco's.
Okay, I say something likecement stucco.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
I think it's an outstanding product, but when
you get it wet, if it's snapfreezes now, it's not a
traditional like you know.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
No, it's it's.
It's like we get around hereSometimes we get 45 degrees and
rain and that night it's downinto the teens and that that's
definitely a quick freeze.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
And they.
And if you look at, there's astucco industry standard that
basically says you know, ahairline crack and stucco is
typically normal because, yeah,homes do a little settling and
when that happens that's goingto occur.
It's when it grows, yeah andmore.
We always tell people, if thereis a hairline cracker, gets a
little bigger, you should, youshould at least do some
maintenance with that.
Got you Stealing it, caulkingit, whatever.
(12:05):
Right, I know it's not always,but then it doesn't look
attractive, doesn't?
Speaker 1 (12:07):
It's the only thing I gotta say is I need then you
kind of point out where thecrack is.
When you do that.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
It's the one thing.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
We get asked all the time is it okay to paint a
stucco?
And we tell people thatAlastomeric coating, which is a
great type of a paint, to put instuff with great product and it
is breathable.
If you read the specifications,it's a breathable product, but
I'm still cautious.
Yeah, tell anybody.
Yeah, put something more on topof it to trap the moisture in.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
Yeah right.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
The reason I say it.
When we take stucco off, whatwe see is just because the
product, the product on theoutside and the house on the
inside, whether it's warm orcool, wherever it gets
sandwiched together.
We just see so much destruction.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
Well, that's what the temperature difference is.
It's like anything.
I mean, you know, my dad talksabout this in my house because
he says, down the base, becausehe does HVAC, and he said, you
know, my basement's so coldbecause I have the air
conditioning kicking upstairs.
He actually tells me to turn myelectric baseboard on a little
bit.
He said, because what I'm doingis I'm creating a situation
where it's so cold down therebut it's dry, cold and it could
(13:10):
be creating condensation behindmy drywall and I'm like what I'm
going to turn my baseboard?
He goes, yes, to dry the airout, because it's actually
you're creating a cold, dampspace, and so that's interesting
.
So my thing is this I rememberwhen I was building my house,
you know, if you wanted toupgrade to stucco, it was
expensive.
So you know, a lot of housesare vinyl siding and now what's
(13:31):
amazing is I'm seeing like overhere in Spring Ridge they're
replacing all the stucco withsiding.
What is siding?
Okay?
Speaker 2 (13:41):
Yes, it is Well.
One of the reasons why sidingis okay is because when, if you
see the way it's installed, it'sinstalled a lot of times
horizontal or vertical, but it'sinstalled that when it's nailed
it's not nailed super tightRight, so it can move.
It can move, it can have, andbehind it there's a decent vapor
barrier, and it's those vaporbarriers are tied in the
flashings to protect the windowsand the doors or any gaps, and
(14:03):
what that does is just allowsmoisture to travel out, drain
out, or it doesn't sandwich itso much that it doesn't allow it
to dry and it also breathes,doesn't it?
Speaker 1 (14:11):
I think there's air behind vinyl siding.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
So we do a lot of.
So we have a lot of clientsthat have us take the stucco
worst over, near off the walls,and then we will do.
James Hardy, cement boardsiding is a favorite, a great
product, and so there's a WolfPVC portrait siding.
So these are upscale sidingproducts.
Yeah, they look nice and, insome cases, some of the
communities that we work in now,if they have a nicer home.
(14:35):
They were requiring these twoblocks yes.
Yes, but what we've seen latelyis like certainty has just come
out with a more upscale, wideplank, beautiful vinyl siding
yeah.
It's insulated oh that's great,and it's called sort of plank.
I mean, I just did a job withit.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
Nice, we're really happy, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
And the nice part was the labor was a lot, so the
material was not the same priceas the upscale products, but the
labor was better.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
Got it Because it's because it doesn't take as long
time because, it's not all thoseprocesses, yeah, yeah, and
y'all now with the stucco.
When you're using all thoseprocesses, do you have to come
back each time to put thosedifferent layers on, or do you
do?
Speaker 2 (15:09):
So you're supposed to allow it to dry in between
Right, right, so the stucco coat.
So when you do a scratch coatand you let it, dry for a day.
It allows the cement to kind ofopen up If there's any little
hairline cracks.
And then the next coat, when itgoes in the cream, the cream of
the cement fills in thosecracks, bonds it together, makes
it strong.
And then the final coat, whichis your finished coat.
(15:32):
You let the brown coat, themiddle coat, it say, dry out for
a couple of days, yeah, and youput that final coat on.
It just knits it very well.
So when you try to take it off,if someone really did it well,
it's difficult.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
You can tell, you can tell it's put on right.
It's not easy.
Interesting, really interesting, so okay, so I'm building a new
house today.
Yes, do I use stucco on anotherthing?
What about the applied stone?
Speaker 2 (15:55):
Well, I would share with you.
The applied stone is equallythe same problem.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
It is.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
So a lot of times it hides the problem much easier,
much not easier.
It hides the problem more thanthe stucco does.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
Gotcha, you don't see it Because it's different
colors on the outside, so youdon't see any kind of mold
coming through.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
Exactly, you don't see it.
So if there are cracks in thestone veneer A lot of times it
happens it forms along the crackof the, around the mortar joint
, and so you may see, you maynot, Okay, but what we tell
people the same thing is thatyou know, testing is a great
idea, especially below yourwindows, down at your sill plate
.
So I've had clients call andsay well, this, this report's a
(16:32):
good report.
My entire house, all thewindows up top.
They tested well.
I got a couple problems down atthe bottom and we dug into it.
So all the water starts at thetop, saturates the, the stoners.
Oh my gosh, and it comes downand it gets jammed up right at
where the basement foundationmeets the first floor, and
(16:53):
that's dangerous, because whathappens is, when we take it off,
we've we realize it, oh my God,the, the sill plate which holds
up all the vertical studs, isrotted through.
Oh geez, and that happens a lotof times.
Yeah, that's tough to replace,so we have to go inside the home
, into the basement, andbasically jack up.
Oh my gosh, I'm just feeling alittle bit to get that out.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
Yeah Geez, see, this is why it's called Yucco Stucco.
I'm telling you now, but yousaid it's, but it's, but it's
not a bad product, it's just yougot to do it right.
You got to do it right, I just.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
We just bought a home here.
Why missing?
And and the chimney, theexterior columns to our.
We have a closed porch out backand two fireplaces inside.
We, you stuck, we had adesigner helping us with what
she wanted it to look like.
And it came out beautifullyAwesome.
So we got some of those things,but we followed code, had it
inspected there you go.
(17:41):
You know and then.
But yeah, I believe in theproduct Cause.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
I'm amazed by trade, but I also know that to your
point.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
If you had a question before, like were they trying
to save money?
It looks like it.
Yeah, because the componentsthat I am adding to it right now
which I'm not adding, I'm justdoing what it's supposed to be
done they don't cost a lot,right?
Speaker 1 (17:59):
It's just that they weren't doing it's just, it's
amazing, we go faster.
Well, and I think too, like youknow, back when they started
doing Stucco here I think maybeit was coming from, probably
down south, was where the ideawas we're coming from.
And then they're like, oh, wecan do this, we got this, this
is no big deal.
And now that that's that systemof doing that, that cheaper way
or that bad workmanship way,that can't be done anymore.
(18:19):
It just doesn't work.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
No, well, if you go to, you got Arizona, New Mexico,
any of the Southern you knoweven the.
Carol, well, I shouldn't say itin the Carolinas is where it
really started.
It started, the damage reallyshowed up in a big way.
There's a lot of humidity there.
It's nice and warm, yeah, andat some time it's you would find
it well with it.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
Because, like Arizona , like you said.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
I mean, they don't get the moisture we get, so
where's it?
You know it's not going to betrapped behind there.
Yes, amazing, totally amazing.
So one thing I'm really happyabout is actually I'm happy that
my house is completely vinyl,because I was too cheap 22 years
ago to put anything on butvinyl and I haven't had any
problems Not going not goingwith so, there's one other thing
I want to bring up before welet you go, because Hugo had a
(18:59):
question about it and I was kindof asking about the, the luxury
vinyl.
right, we were talking aboutthat a little bit.
What do you?
That's a newer product.
Yes, when do you see that?
Where are we going with that?
Is it really everything it'scracked up to be?
Speaker 2 (19:10):
We have great success with it.
We use it quite a bit.
But what I think everybody doeshave to understand it is not
waterproof.
It's not waterproof, okay.
So what does that mean?
But if you have a, you know Ihave an older dog, my wife so of
course, what's he going to do?
You know he's, he's peeing onthe floor.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
Oh, okay, right, so I'm going to go to the vinyl
plank.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
Certainly you can clean it up, but if you leave it
, if God forbid, you miss anaccident and it stays there, it
will do its damage.
Oh what, really?
Yeah, it will do its damage.
So I I know that they say it'swaterproofed.
Yeah, yeah, but what I've?
I'm the guy who rips it up,yeah, so I've seen what happens
when they say it'sweatherproofed and it something
was wet and it may.
(19:49):
I don't know how long, maybe itwas two days, three days or one
but taking it up and it thecorners were curled.
Oh, wow, and it lifted a littlebit and it starts to delaminate
Interesting.
So you know it's, so it's not.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
PPP proof?
It's not.
No, not at all.
It's not PPP proof.
Okay, so then, and what's,what's amazing?
And the reason?
It's a mentitious product.
A cementitious product.
We're going to have to use thatword more and more as we as we
go.
But hey, I want to thank youfor coming on the show today,
man.
I know you're doing a great jobout there.
We use Rick for all kinds ofthings, susan, and I do.
I know our company does.
You know he's the one guy thatactually calls you back when you
(20:23):
actually call for an issue oryou have a.
You want to get pricing orsomething.
So definitely look at L and L.
And then what'd you say is Land L?
You're using construct, notconstruction.
So contract, generalcontracting, that's what it is.
So you're doing a great job.
We really appreciate it so much.
So that's it.
There was YACO STUCCO.
If you have any questions, getin touch with Rick Herbert.
If you need his information,just let me know.
(20:44):
I will get it to you.
You can talk to me throughFacebook or text
4-8-4-2-5-6-5-8-3-6 and we'llget you all the information you
need.
All right, that's about it,thank you.
Hello, this is Brad Weizmann.
You're listening to Real Estateand you we're back in the
studio.
We are here to talk about atopic that you are probably
hearing a lot about out there,and if you have Stucco on your
house, you will probably want toturn this off because you're
going to puke in your mouth.
But no, this is a really goodshow.
It's called Yucco Stucco and Ihave the well, I won't say
(00:23):
expert, because he told me notto say this, but we have Rick
Herbert here from L&L.
It's a construction.
It's a construction group.
Is it L&L group?
What is it called now?
L&l?
general contractors, generalcontractors there we go.
I didn't say that one at all.
I got them all except for thatone.
But no, rick is the person thatwe go to when we have questions
about Stucco and a lot ofdifferent things.
(00:43):
Rick does everything, but oneof the things that you excel in
and that we feel that peoplefeel comfortable working with
you on is Stucco, and it's a big.
It's a big thing.
Today we're seeing a lot ofissues with Stucco that have
worked.
That was done in the past.
People thought this stuff wasgoing to last forever and it
didn't.
So what?
Tell me what's going on?
Give me an overview of what'shappening with Stucco a little
(01:05):
bit.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Okay, the installation method that was
used years ago.
I'd say years ago maybe like 15years, 15 years ago or more.
Right, the installation methodthat was used at that time was
improper, okay.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Okay, so the whole thing was improper.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Well, what we found out was there was two big issues
, okay.
Number one the way windows anddoors were installed at that
time.
Looks like it was missing somepan flashing, okay, and it even
though window and doormanufacturers might have said,
hey, we require head flashing,okay, that wasn't done
consistently Right.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Is it the cut costs Is?
Speaker 2 (01:44):
that why this stuff happens.
It looks like that, yeah, so Iwould say we've seen a lot more
evidence of it on a trackbuilder.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Okay, but you know, in some large, very large custom
homes we've seen it also, andin some cases I don't.
I couldn't answer that question, except it doesn't make much
sense.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
So not all Stucco failures look the same.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
No, they're quite different.
So there's a.
There's a couple things Isnumber one if, when the Stucco
is installed, there'srequirements today.
So the requirements today are,you know, there's multiple
layers of vapor barriers,there's a rain screen which is
like a drainage mat and thenthere's a required thickness of
the Stucco itself, the base coat, the, the uh part coat and the
(02:27):
finish coat, so altogether it'sabout an inch thick today.
Oh wow, where?
Um, the last house that we didthe remediation work which is
removal the Stucco, the fullthickness of Stucco was a half
an inch, oh wow.
So that's like that's half thethickness that it is today, yeah
.
You know.
And, um, if you have that, youknow.
So the body of that Stucconeeds to have strength.
(02:49):
Yeah, it's held together withwireless or some cases it's, you
know, exterior or EIFS.
Efis is more of a um, isn't itmore pliable, isn't it?
It's a foam based Stucco, okay,okay.
So there's three differentthings that we should start with
Cementitious StuccoCementitious.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
Stucco.
Hey, hugo, write that down.
I want to use that for a lot ofthings that sounds fancy Can.
I just use that for anythingyou think.
Yes, cementitious, you knowthat's very cementitious of you.
You like that?
Speaker 2 (03:18):
That worked pretty good, well, go ahead.
What are the other ones?
Um, then you have a hard coatStucco which has a Stucco over
top of a cement base but has anElastomeric finish.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
Okay, which is flexible?
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
And then you have um, your EIFS, which is a foam base
, and that's the one we see alot of right, yeah, like, for
instance, example, a lot oftimes office buildings.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
Yes, in this vicinity we'll have exterior insulation
board up, yeah, very thick,sometimes inches and a half, and
then you'll see you'll, you'llhave a gray motor coat over top
of that and then they put itssynthetic finish on top.
So it's a good product.
It's meant to be, you know,durable, but it's also meant to
have a insulation factor.
Okay so, but Stucco itself is aguy I feel is a good product.
(04:01):
Right, it was just.
It looks as if the productsthat were used were not used
right, weren't used right, andthe, the, the mason's at the
time, some of them didn't dothree coats.
So when I say three coats whenyou put up your wire laugh, and
you do a scratch coat.
That's considered one process,Gotcha.
The next coat will be yourbrown coat, almost like a
plaster coat that gives you yourthickness and your body of the
(04:22):
Stucco.
And the last coat is your, yourfinished coat.
It's the, it's the you know,the creamy cement finish or the
creamy like last America finish,and if that was done properly
with, with flashing done, theright way, you know you might
have some issues if it'sexcessive cracking, but you
typically wouldn't have what wehave today.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
Yeah, and there's some really bad pictures I've
seen.
I mean, you did my parentshouse, yes, and you know I saw
what was behind their wall andthat's the thing too it's you
never know how bad it is.
I mean, you can do those coresamples.
And I saw you did that with myparents house and he was having
an issue opening his windows.
Yeah, because it was actuallyswelling right.
I guess it was swelling thewood that much that his vinyl
(05:06):
windows were starting to come inand he couldn't get the windows
up.
Is that something that, ifsomebody has that situation?
they should look into if theyhave stucco right.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Yeah, so today they require us to have a, an
expansion joint around everywindow or door, at the soffit
areas, wherever stucco wouldmeet a dissimilar material like
wood etc.
And it's about three eighths ofan inch thick, that that
expansion, and we have to have acarot in there and caulk so it
allows for that movement,because that window, when it
(05:35):
heats up, is going to move.
Yeah, it's, it's vinyl.
And today you see there's a lotof black windows out there.
Yeah, they're really moving.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
Oh, I didn't even think about that because of the
heat and the heat, oh mygoodness.
Yes, so it's important.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
You know it's not one thing and you know we've seen
homes that were done.
Okay, in Chester County, forexample, that one house is
completely ripped off, yeah.
The next house, two out of foursides were absolutely fine when
they did the motion test andtwo to the elevations were had
to come off, yeah.
And in that situation whatwe've seen is the way the sun,
(06:09):
if the sun warms up the home, ifit's rise it out yeah,
interesting.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
So like a southern exposure area might be better.
So, okay, I have it.
I'm just going to say,hypothetically, I have a house
that's just full stucco off allfour sides.
What am I looking for?
What?
Now I get into my house, Ilisten to this podcast, I go
back to my house, I start cryingfirst, actually, but then after
that I like okay, what, what amI looking for?
What are the signs?
Speaker 2 (06:33):
What I would say to you.
If anything is over 15 yearsold, I would have it tested by a
third party.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
Okay, and how does that work?
Speaker 2 (06:39):
Well, what I what I believe is that I believe that
stucco is also a storm chasingcontractors dream Okay, got it.
So you almost want to do alittle separation.
You want to hire a third partytesting company?
That's not a contractor acontractor, Got it.
So you don't want recurb to saythat house needs to be ripped
down without having someone elseProviding the data got you, and
(07:00):
then that makes sense foranything that you do.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
Don't.
Don't.
Don't hire the contractor.
Hire the the expert at it firstand then call the contractor to
repair the issue.
That makes sense to me.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
Yeah, a lot of times the, the testing companies now
will give very good data tosupport what needs to happen and
it gives the homeowner Justjust a better view.
Yes, I want to rip this off.
Right, do I want to do repair,and it comes down to a lot of
times.
Do you want a warranty?
Speaker 1 (07:25):
Yeah, right, right, because if we do a repair yeah,
it's just a repair in a certainarea there's no warranty
involved now what you're sayingis that I'm just taking a
certain area there's maybe acrack in it or showing something
going on.
You're saying you'll just,you'll, you'll repair it, but
you're not tearing it all offright we make.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
We might cut an area up, a little windows three foot
by three foot, yep and repairthe damaged wood, put it back
together and then basically justRestuck over that face of it
Gotcha.
But we really haven't changedthe process of what caused the
leak to happen, gotcha, gotcha,and we've done that and what and
when we do that, of course thecost is less.
Yeah, there's no warranty,right, if we were, if we do a
(08:03):
remediation.
For me the remediation meanstop to bottom, right off the
right on that specific elevation, gotcha, not mean that the
entire house has to come offright, it just means that out
and and what that does is Then Ican have it, I can have
somebody else, I could have aBorough township, I could have
you know, like a company likecraft codes, for sure they could
(08:23):
inspect it.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
Right, it was done properly To today's code
standard gotcha, and then thatway it goes back together, and
then you want that for a littlebit of time.
Yeah okay, interesting.
You know, and I know with mydad's, it wasn't easy to.
You guys knew where the issuewas, yes, but it wasn't like it
was like an easy fix of findingthe problem.
It was a water problem comingoff the roof, from what I
(08:46):
remember, and I remember alsoyou saying to my dad you know
it's gonna be here here and hereand he's like I don't know.
You know, and then he wouldcall me and I'd say, yeah, I'm
pretty sure Rick is right aboutthat, because I've seen it have
before and at the end of the day, their house looks.
It looks Amazing, it looks likeit was never an issue.
And I saw that you guys Touredall the way down to the wood and
I remember seeing the wood wasbasically put your finger
through it.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
I mean, that's the part that blows my mind there.
Well, there's one thing whenplywood is bad, but there's
another thing when thestructural wood behind it's bad,
that's a problem.
That's holding up the exteriorof your home Absolutely, and and
that's where we see we get alot of issues with pests.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
Yeah, ants, yeah, really do a lot of damage once
the wood gets soft termites.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
Yeah, then they love it and they just tear it apart,
yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
so it's like kind of like you're kind of feeding it
to them, yeah we found that wefound an issue that that really
kind of stands out and I'llbring it to you.
So when homes were built, say15 years or more ago, yeah, they
were using OSB, which isoriented strand board.
It's a, basically shavings ofplywood glued together, yep, and
it forms of plywood sheet, yep.
It is about half the cost,maybe more than half the cost,
(09:50):
of a really a traditional pieceof plywood, yep.
So it was very common forpeople to use that.
Well, it's a sponge, yeah,right.
So I'm not telling me that was.
That's what caused the stuccoproblems, but any moisture that
gets behind the stucco.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
Now, it, it's just, it just sucks it in.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
Yeah, it's wicking then too the vapor, the vapor
barriers that they use back then, compared to ones that are
using now, the standard is quitedifferent.
Yeah, they're much better.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
Like a house wrap type thing, or yeah, gotcha, and
they a lot of times.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
they'll consider, they'll want us to do two layers
today, oh wow.
So one's almost like asacrificial layer, you know.
And then the other layer is isthe protection Rain screens,
like I said, and then theimportant part is like, around,
like, around, like thattelevision screen right there.
Yeah, that was a window.
They what code requires todaywhich is outstanding for, like
your, your cavity?
(10:36):
So if you have a window that'soutside the cavity, before you
put it in the way, we waterproofthe entire cavity.
Yeah, so what it what it doesget to it?
Yeah, it's meant that it candrain out.
It doesn't go anywhere nearyour water to structure of your
home.
Yeah, so I like the process andit does work.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
Yeah, so you know, there was always.
Everybody kept saying well, itwas never meant to be used here,
it should be in Florida.
It was meant to be in Floridabecause our temperatures are
varying too much here in theNortheast.
Is there any kind of validityto that?
I think so.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
Yeah, okay, because I see, here's the, here's the
issue.
When water gets in, like so ifyou take a cup or a gallon of
water and you pour it onsomething that's pours like a
stucco wall and then it snapfreezes.
So when someone water freezes,expands.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
Expands right.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
That's where we see cracking, especially in some
stucco's.
Okay, I say something likecement stucco.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
I think it's an outstanding product, but when
you get it wet, if it's snapfreezes now, it's not a
traditional like you know.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
No, it's it's.
It's like we get around hereSometimes we get 45 degrees and
rain and that night it's downinto the teens and that that's
definitely a quick freeze.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
And they.
And if you look at, there's astucco industry standard that
basically says you know, ahairline crack and stucco is
typically normal because, yeah,homes do a little settling and
when that happens that's goingto occur.
It's when it grows, yeah andmore.
We always tell people, if thereis a hairline cracker, gets a
little bigger, you should, youshould at least do some
maintenance with that.
Got you Stealing it, caulkingit, whatever.
(12:05):
Right, I know it's not always,but then it doesn't look
attractive, doesn't?
Speaker 1 (12:07):
It's the only thing I gotta say is I need then you
kind of point out where thecrack is.
When you do that.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
It's the one thing.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
We get asked all the time is it okay to paint a
stucco?
And we tell people thatAlastomeric coating, which is a
great type of a paint, to put instuff with great product and it
is breathable.
If you read the specifications,it's a breathable product, but
I'm still cautious.
Yeah, tell anybody.
Yeah, put something more on topof it to trap the moisture in.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
Yeah right.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
The reason I say it.
When we take stucco off, whatwe see is just because the
product, the product on theoutside and the house on the
inside, whether it's warm orcool, wherever it gets
sandwiched together.
We just see so much destruction.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
Well, that's what the temperature difference is.
It's like anything.
I mean, you know, my dad talksabout this in my house because
he says, down the base, becausehe does HVAC, and he said, you
know, my basement's so coldbecause I have the air
conditioning kicking upstairs.
He actually tells me to turn myelectric baseboard on a little
bit.
He said, because what I'm doingis I'm creating a situation
where it's so cold down therebut it's dry, cold and it could
(13:10):
be creating condensation behindmy drywall and I'm like what I'm
going to turn my baseboard?
He goes, yes, to dry the airout, because it's actually
you're creating a cold, dampspace, and so that's interesting
.
So my thing is this I rememberwhen I was building my house,
you know, if you wanted toupgrade to stucco, it was
expensive.
So you know, a lot of housesare vinyl siding and now what's
(13:31):
amazing is I'm seeing like overhere in Spring Ridge they're
replacing all the stucco withsiding.
What is siding?
Okay?
Speaker 2 (13:41):
Yes, it is Well.
One of the reasons why sidingis okay is because when, if you
see the way it's installed, it'sinstalled a lot of times
horizontal or vertical, but it'sinstalled that when it's nailed
it's not nailed super tightRight, so it can move.
It can move, it can have, andbehind it there's a decent vapor
barrier, and it's those vaporbarriers are tied in the
flashings to protect the windowsand the doors or any gaps, and
(14:03):
what that does is just allowsmoisture to travel out, drain
out, or it doesn't sandwich itso much that it doesn't allow it
to dry and it also breathes,doesn't it?
Speaker 1 (14:11):
I think there's air behind vinyl siding.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
So we do a lot of.
So we have a lot of clientsthat have us take the stucco
worst over, near off the walls,and then we will do.
James Hardy, cement boardsiding is a favorite, a great
product, and so there's a WolfPVC portrait siding.
So these are upscale sidingproducts.
Yeah, they look nice and, insome cases, some of the
communities that we work in now,if they have a nicer home.
(14:35):
They were requiring these twoblocks yes.
Yes, but what we've seen latelyis like certainty has just come
out with a more upscale, wideplank, beautiful vinyl siding
yeah.
It's insulated oh that's great,and it's called sort of plank.
I mean, I just did a job withit.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
Nice, we're really happy, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
And the nice part was the labor was a lot, so the
material was not the same priceas the upscale products, but the
labor was better.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
Got it Because it's because it doesn't take as long
time because, it's not all thoseprocesses, yeah, yeah, and
y'all now with the stucco.
When you're using all thoseprocesses, do you have to come
back each time to put thosedifferent layers on, or do you
do?
Speaker 2 (15:09):
So you're supposed to allow it to dry in between
Right, right, so the stucco coat.
So when you do a scratch coatand you let it, dry for a day.
It allows the cement to kind ofopen up If there's any little
hairline cracks.
And then the next coat, when itgoes in the cream, the cream of
the cement fills in thosecracks, bonds it together, makes
it strong.
And then the final coat, whichis your finished coat.
(15:32):
You let the brown coat, themiddle coat, it say, dry out for
a couple of days, yeah, and youput that final coat on.
It just knits it very well.
So when you try to take it off,if someone really did it well,
it's difficult.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
You can tell, you can tell it's put on right.
It's not easy.
Interesting, really interesting, so okay, so I'm building a new
house today.
Yes, do I use stucco on anotherthing?
What about the applied stone?
Speaker 2 (15:55):
Well, I would share with you.
The applied stone is equallythe same problem.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
It is.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
So a lot of times it hides the problem much easier,
much not easier.
It hides the problem more thanthe stucco does.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
Gotcha, you don't see it Because it's different
colors on the outside, so youdon't see any kind of mold
coming through.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
Exactly, you don't see it.
So if there are cracks in thestone veneer A lot of times it
happens it forms along the crackof the, around the mortar joint
, and so you may see, you maynot, Okay, but what we tell
people the same thing is thatyou know, testing is a great
idea, especially below yourwindows, down at your sill plate
.
So I've had clients call andsay well, this, this report's a
(16:32):
good report.
My entire house, all thewindows up top.
They tested well.
I got a couple problems down atthe bottom and we dug into it.
So all the water starts at thetop, saturates the, the stoners.
Oh my gosh, and it comes downand it gets jammed up right at
where the basement foundationmeets the first floor, and
(16:53):
that's dangerous, because whathappens is, when we take it off,
we've we realize it, oh my God,the, the sill plate which holds
up all the vertical studs, isrotted through.
Oh geez, and that happens a lotof times.
Yeah, that's tough to replace,so we have to go inside the home
, into the basement, andbasically jack up.
Oh my gosh, I'm just feeling alittle bit to get that out.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
Yeah Geez, see, this is why it's called Yucco Stucco.
I'm telling you now, but yousaid it's, but it's, but it's
not a bad product, it's just yougot to do it right.
You got to do it right, I just.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
We just bought a home here.
Why missing?
And and the chimney, theexterior columns to our.
We have a closed porch out backand two fireplaces inside.
We, you stuck, we had adesigner helping us with what
she wanted it to look like.
And it came out beautifullyAwesome.
So we got some of those things,but we followed code, had it
inspected there you go.
(17:41):
You know and then.
But yeah, I believe in theproduct Cause.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
I'm amazed by trade, but I also know that to your
point.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
If you had a question before, like were they trying
to save money?
It looks like it.
Yeah, because the componentsthat I am adding to it right now
which I'm not adding, I'm justdoing what it's supposed to be
done they don't cost a lot,right?
Speaker 1 (17:59):
It's just that they weren't doing it's just, it's
amazing, we go faster.
Well, and I think too, like youknow, back when they started
doing Stucco here I think maybeit was coming from, probably
down south, was where the ideawas we're coming from.
And then they're like, oh, wecan do this, we got this, this
is no big deal.
And now that that's that systemof doing that, that cheaper way
or that bad workmanship way,that can't be done anymore.
(18:19):
It just doesn't work.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
No, well, if you go to, you got Arizona, New Mexico,
any of the Southern you knoweven the.
Carol, well, I shouldn't say itin the Carolinas is where it
really started.
It started, the damage reallyshowed up in a big way.
There's a lot of humidity there.
It's nice and warm, yeah, andat some time it's you would find
it well with it.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
Because, like Arizona , like you said.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
I mean, they don't get the moisture we get, so
where's it?
You know it's not going to betrapped behind there.
Yes, amazing, totally amazing.
So one thing I'm really happyabout is actually I'm happy that
my house is completely vinyl,because I was too cheap 22 years
ago to put anything on butvinyl and I haven't had any
problems Not going not goingwith so, there's one other thing
I want to bring up before welet you go, because Hugo had a
(18:59):
question about it and I was kindof asking about the, the luxury
vinyl.
right, we were talking aboutthat a little bit.
What do you?
That's a newer product.
Yes, when do you see that?
Where are we going with that?
Is it really everything it'scracked up to be?
Speaker 2 (19:10):
We have great success with it.
We use it quite a bit.
But what I think everybody doeshave to understand it is not
waterproof.
It's not waterproof, okay.
So what does that mean?
But if you have a, you know Ihave an older dog, my wife so of
course, what's he going to do?
You know he's, he's peeing onthe floor.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
Oh, okay, right, so I'm going to go to the vinyl
plank.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
Certainly you can clean it up, but if you leave it
, if God forbid, you miss anaccident and it stays there, it
will do its damage.
Oh what, really?
Yeah, it will do its damage.
So I I know that they say it'swaterproofed.
Yeah, yeah, but what I've?
I'm the guy who rips it up,yeah, so I've seen what happens
when they say it'sweatherproofed and it something
was wet and it may.
(19:49):
I don't know how long, maybe itwas two days, three days or one
but taking it up and it thecorners were curled.
Oh, wow, and it lifted a littlebit and it starts to delaminate
Interesting.
So you know it's, so it's not.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
PPP proof?
It's not.
No, not at all.
It's not PPP proof.
Okay, so then, and what's,what's amazing?
And the reason?
It's a mentitious product.
A cementitious product.
We're going to have to use thatword more and more as we as we
go.
But hey, I want to thank youfor coming on the show today,
man.
I know you're doing a great jobout there.
We use Rick for all kinds ofthings, susan, and I do.
I know our company does.
You know he's the one guy thatactually calls you back when you
(20:23):
actually call for an issue oryou have a.
You want to get pricing orsomething.
So definitely look at L and L.
And then what'd you say is Land L?
You're using construct, notconstruction.
So contract, generalcontracting, that's what it is.
So you're doing a great job.
We really appreciate it so much.
So that's it.
There was YACO STUCCO.
If you have any questions, getin touch with Rick Herbert.
If you need his information,just let me know.
(20:44):
I will get it to you.
You can talk to me throughFacebook or text
4-8-4-2-5-6-5-8-3-6 and we'llget you all the information you
need.
All right, that's about it,thank you.
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