Ever wondered how the commodification of education affects our teachers' mental health and the quality of education? Join us as we explore this pressing issue with renowned healthcare executive and leadership consultant, Dr. Roger Gerard. Together, we unpack the alarming rise in teacher burnout and anxiety, exacerbated by the pandemic, and delve into the structural issues that contribute to this crisis. Drawing from Dr. Gerard's upcoming book, "Lead with Purpose: Reignite Passion and Engagement for Professionals in Crisis," we discuss actionable steps to reignite passion and engagement among educators, emphasizing the need to treat them as valued professionals.
We tackle the fundamental needs of teachers, such as campus safety and competitive pay, and the systemic challenges that hinder fair compensation. Through personal anecdotes and critical analysis, we highlight the detrimental effects of pay freezes and outdated salary data, and critique the use of manipulative incentives. Instead, we advocate for intrinsic motivation and systemic solutions to reduce teacher shortages and overburdening. This episode underscores the necessity of genuine support and respect for educators, ensuring their well-being and effectiveness in the classroom.
Discover how school board members can foster better educational environments by actively engaging with teachers and students. We discuss the importance of understanding daily school operations and promoting respectful partnerships among parents, educators, and administrators. By addressing the over-reliance on test scores and fostering a supportive educational culture, we outline five key promises leaders should make to their teams. Listen in and join our mission to drive positive change in education, prioritize our children's success, and share your success stories to inspire others.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (00:10):
Welcome to the Brighter Side of Education.
I'm your host, Dr.
Lisa Hassler, here to enlightenand brighten the classrooms in
America through focusedconversation on important topics
in education.
In each episode, I discussproblems we as teachers and
parents are facing and whatpeople are doing in their
communities to fix it.
What are the variables and howcan we duplicate it to maximize
(00:31):
student outcomes?
In this episode, we'll explorehow teacher co-modification
connects to burnout and whatleaders can do about it.
While teachers enter the fieldwith the best of intentions,
increasing pressures over thepast four years have led to a
persistent national teachershortage.
National data and communityreports indicate critical
shortages of both teachersrelative to pre-pandemic levels
(00:54):
and teachers fully certified toteach in their content area.
A 2022 study by Johns HopkinsUniversity and the American
Educational Research Associationfound that the mental health of
pre-K to 12 teachers has beensignificantly impacted by the
pandemic.
Teachers reported much higheranxiety levels than other
professions, with remoteteachers experiencing even
(01:14):
greater distress.
Us teachers are 40% more likelyto suffer from anxiety than
health care workers and 20% morelikely than office workers.
Cheryl Robinson in her 2024article Teachers here's how to
Successfully Change CareersAfter Burnout, noted that
post-pandemic, there were500,000 fewer educators in US
public schools, with 43% of jobpostings unfulfilled.
(01:38):
Increased workloads, changingcurriculums, economic pressures
and low pay have led manyteachers to question if the
profession is worth it, withmany saying enough.
So what does commodificationhave to do with this anxiety and
how can it be prevented?
To explore effective solutions,we're joined by Dr.
Roger Gerard, a healthcareexecutive and leadership
consultant.
Dr Gerard is the owner of SloanGerard Consulting, a private
(02:02):
consulting practice servingexecutives and boards in
strategic planning, operationalplanning, executive coaching and
management development.
He's also a three-time authorsharing leadership principles
applicable to professional andpersonal settings.
In his upcoming book "Lead withPurpose: Reignite Passion and
Engagement for Professionals inCrisis, he discusses
(02:22):
commodification in careers suchas education and offers
practical strategies to inspirehigh levels of engagement,
preventing burnout.
Dr Gerard, welcome to the showand thank you so much for
joining me today.
Dr. Roger Gerard (02:33):
Thank you for allowing me to be part of this.
I appreciate it.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (02:37):
Your background in the health and
leadership consulting sector forthe past 52 years has led to
your publications On the Mendand Owning the Room, and you
have a latest book, lead withPurpose, and you write about
professionals in crisis.
So what inspired you to focuson this particular area and how
do you believe it can helpteachers?
Dr. Roger Gerard (02:56):
Well, I've had a very privileged career in
that I've been able to spend alot of time with many different
kinds of professionals for over50 years.
It's been a wonderful ride andI've watched in those 50 years
what I think is a decline inrespect for professionals, and
(03:18):
some of it is structural, someof it is institutional, some of
it is just in the paradigms thatwe use as we consider who the
professionals in our society are.
You know, in the HR world aprofessional is defined as
somebody who has a certificateor a license or a degree and
they're capable in thoselicensures or certificates to do
(03:41):
certain things, and that's apretty sterile definition.
Or certificates to do certainthings, and that's a pretty
sterile definition.
My definition of a professionalis somebody who comes to the
workplace wanting to be engagedin doing something that matters,
and in that kind of adefinition we're talking about
people who come to work with acalling.
We know from all of the Gallupresearch today that people
(04:04):
aren't engaged.
They're discovering in theirresearch over the last decade or
so that about 35% of the peopledoing daily work are engaged in
that work.
I mean emotionally connected.
About 35% are not engaged.
They're actively disengaged.
Wow, that's a lot, that's a lot.
(04:25):
And the people in the middleare on the fence.
They're showing up and they'lldo the job.
They're good soldiers butthey're not emotionally
connected to the work.
So if you start thinking of athird, a third and a third the
people who come to work with acalling, with a sense of purpose
, the people who come to workwith a calling, with a sense of
purpose, those folks are special.
(04:47):
And now you want to look at whothey are.
Well, they're the firefighters,they're the teachers, they're
the doctors, they're the nurses.
These are the people who cometo the workplace wanting to make
a difference and do somethingfor somebody.
Those are the folks I've beenable to work with for my career
and I'm seeing today thatthey're not being respected,
(05:07):
they're not being treated as theprofessionals that they are.
So I mean, that's kind of whereI'm at, and I've spent a lot of
time trying to help executivesand managers in many different
organizations see that andrecognize what it's doing to
people with, I hope, somesuccess.
In my book I'm trying toencapsulate in a couple hundred
(05:31):
pages what's happening and whatleaders need to do about it.
That's what it's all about.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (05:37):
So when you're talking about crisis, it's not
being seen as professionals.
The disengagement, that beingon the fence, losing that
passion, the impact of that onsociety, and it's a lot.
Dr. Roger Gerard (05:47):
I mean, it's a social impact, it's an economic
impact.
Think about how work is beingdone today and how much waste
(06:10):
occurs because people arecynical, because they're
apathetic, because they don'twant to do what they're being
asked to do.
All of that is waste, andthere's a lot of it in just
about every organization I'vebeen in.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (06:23):
Yeah, being able to have the right frame of
mind, to be eager aboutembracing what it is that's
being asked of you.
You know that's a bigdifference, because you have
motivation and the motivationmakes you want to jump up and do
it with happiness and with alot of dedication.
And if you don't have thatmotivation, then the dedication
(06:44):
isn't there and I think thequality definitely suffers,
which then of course impactsthose who we're supposed to
serve, and that's the community,and so the community then
suffers you got it.
Dr. Roger Gerard (06:56):
Teachers and educators are one of the groups
that I focus on in my book and Iknow that's part of your focus
and your mission.
And I was, 23 years, chieflearning officer for ThetaCare,
which is a health care systemhere in Wisconsin.
They originally wanted me to bethe chief education officer and
I said no, I'll be the chieflearning officer because it's my
(07:17):
job to help people learn, but Ican't guarantee that they will.
I won't be held accountable fortheir learning.
I'll be held accountable forcreating that environment where
they can learn.
So that's what we did for 23hours.
We have to be very careful abouthow we treat metrics and how we
treat the work thatprofessionals are there to do.
(07:38):
One of the words that I use iscommodity.
We are standardizing work, weare scripting the teachers.
We are creating standardapproaches for education, and
most people in their academicbackground learned that there
are many different ways to learnand people come with different
(08:00):
preferences in their learningstyles.
We know that and because weknow that, we need to be very
careful about how we standardizethe learning process in our
education systems.
I happen to be the parent of ayoung man who has special
learning needs.
It was very, very difficult towork with the school systems to
make sure that his needs wereaccommodated properly and
(08:24):
appropriately.
But from the standpoint of theeducators, they're constrained
too.
I mean, they're encouraged toteach to the test course.
They're encouraged to teach incertain content that they may or
may not have been trained toteach.
They are expected to teach to ascript.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (08:44):
Is that where the commodification comes from?
Yes, so what exactly iscommodification?
Dr. Roger Gerard (08:49):
A commodity in economics is a base material.
For instance, it's gold orsilver or steel.
It's the basic materials andyou can't brand it.
It is what it is.
In farming, it's eggs or greenpeppers or carrots.
How do you brand that stuff?
I mean, people try, but it'sall exchangeable.
(09:12):
When you start commodifyingteachers, what you're doing is
you're saying you'reexchangeable, you're there to do
a specific purpose and youdon't get to have autonomy in
that purpose.
It's all about autonomy.
It's all about how muchinfluence you can have on your
professional practice.
In healthcare, standardizedprocess for a physician to treat
(09:37):
a diabetic patient startstaking the autonomy away from
the physician about how eachindividual should be treated.
Education is no different.
I know that teachers would liketo be able to individualize
their teaching with the studentsbecause that's how the light
bulbs go on.
But once you script them, theteachers are bound by a script.
(10:00):
And when you start puttingmetrics like test scores on the
teachers and say this goal hasto really perform on the
national test scores or thestatewide test scores, well, now
you're putting another set ofconstraints on the teachers and
eventually they feel likecommodities.
What am I really supposed to dohere?
I was taught how to practice aprofession of teaching, but I'm
(10:23):
not allowed to do all the thingsI know how to do.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (10:25):
So it does take out the creativity and some
of that individualism that weas teachers know that the
children need.
I agree there is a certainamount of scripting that does
happen, I think, especially inthe public sector, more so than
other schools, where they reallysay like everyone needs to be
on, and I'm not sure how this isin other school districts, but
(10:46):
I have been in a school districtwhere it said, all right, the
entire district, if you're inthird grade, you need to be this
day, on this page in the mathbook, everybody has to be there,
and so there are some that havevery tight schedules, and I
understand the frame of mindlike we want to make sure that
all the children are getting allof the education that they're
supposed to.
But on the other hand, it doeshold the teacher a little bit
(11:09):
hostage to not be able to takethe time if he or she believes
the students need to actually godeeper into a concept because
maybe they were notunderstanding it, and so I feel
like they kind of are beingpulled by two different forces
to say this is what my boss issaying, but this is what the
children need, and so it's a tug, and I think it can be kind of
(11:30):
difficult.
Dr. Roger Gerard (11:31):
It's more than difficult for some.
As people come out of theireducation process and go into
the teaching world, they haveexpectations, they're wide-eyed,
they're excited, they want todo some new things and what you
see is after about two to threeyears, turnover goes up.
They either leave to go tosomewhere else to teach or they
(11:53):
go out of the professionaltogether.
That effect is an interestingeffect as you start thinking
about what we're doing to thesepeople coming into the workplace
.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (12:02):
So is that how ?
Commodification, then, isleading to burnout?
Dr. Roger Gerard (12:06):
Absolutely.
I just read an article producedby Forbes last week.
The industry has lost over500,000 teachers in the last
five years.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (12:15):
That's wild, because the teacher shortage
started pre-pandemic and, ofcourse, the pandemic just
intensified that because of theexpectations, and I think just
society as a whole has alsochanged because so many parents
were able to see what was goingon in the classroom in a sense,
even though it wasn't really theclassroom when it comes to, you
(12:36):
know, being online, it was notthe normal and so I think that
people became more invested andinterested in what was going on
in the classroom and because ofthat, we've got a lot of
policies and a lot of peoplelooking at our shoulders saying
I think you should be doing thatand you're not doing this right
.
So add this, add this, andafter a while it just gets to be
too much.
Dr. Roger Gerard (12:58):
It can be a lot, and you know the teachers
today, and this goes back to howthey're being treated, this
whole idea of respect.
Teachers are not only expectedto teach, they're also expected
to be disciplinarians.
They're also expected to besafety protocol experts.
They're also expected to,sometimes by the parents, to be
(13:19):
mom.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (13:19):
Nurses and psychologists too, yeah.
Dr. Roger Gerard (13:23):
And so when you start laying on top of the
teaching function all of theseother layers, eventually the
teacher kind of looks up fromthis mess and says hold it, what
am I supposed to be doing here?
Dr. Lisa Hassler (13:42):
What is?
Dr. Roger Gerard (13:42):
happening and you know, it's really easy for
an administrator to sit in anoffice and basically, say well,
you know, the teacher's there.
Maybe they can take on thisresponsibility, but every time
that happens, they're beingtaken away from their teaching
role, which is why they're therein the first place.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (14:02):
I think that's then why you get that
disengagement.
If you're not able to do it ina way that's giving you that
motivation, then you can becomedisengaged.
Dr. Roger Gerard (14:11):
Motivation is a choice.
It's not something a leader cando to you.
It's something that you chooseto be and you're going to make
that choice based on how you'rebeing treated.
Choose to be, and you're goingto make that choice based on how
you're being treated.
Engagement is a choice.
It's an emotional choice and ifwe don't pay attention to the
emotions and the needs of thepeople doing the daily work of
(14:31):
teaching, they're not going tocome to that workplace motivated
.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (14:35):
So what steps can the educational leaders take
to re-engage educators?
Dr. Roger Gerard (14:41):
Well, first you have to understand what
teachers want and need.
Teachers want safety.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (14:45):
Yes.
Dr. Roger Gerard (14:46):
In today's world, that's a big deal.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (14:48):
Yeah, Safe campuses.
They want to make sure thattheir kids are going to be safe
and that they are definitely.
Dr. Roger Gerard (14:53):
Absolutely.
Teachers want competitive pay.
It's not all about the money,but they want to know that
they're being respected asprofessionals with competitive
pay.
That's a struggle.
I was working with one schoolsystem where the pay was
literally at the 40th percentile.
You have to be at the 50thpercentile to be competitive and
(15:16):
their comp ratio was not goodand I asked to see how they
calibrated their pay.
And their pay was calibratedbased on data that was over a
year old.
Well, things move.
And when I suggested that theyneeded to have a more robust
approach to determiningcompetitive pay, the HR people
were kind of paralyzed becausethe school board had put an
(15:39):
absolute freeze on teacher payfor the previous year and a half
and for the future year.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (15:45):
I have a couple of things to add about
that.
When I first started teaching,the pay was so low that I was so
excited after I don't evenremember how many years of
teaching that my pay wasactually above the poverty level
.
I am not kidding you and I waslike celebrating.
I was like, oh my gosh, look atthis, look at this.
I got a raise this year.
I am now above the povertylevel.
(16:06):
It was a private school, butyou just want to be able to live
.
I love what I do and I want togive it my heart and soul, but I
also want to be able to putfood on the table.
That matters.
And so when you look atincentives versus the pay, the
pay is important because we allneed to live, but the incentives
are nice, you know.
So we can come back toincentives versus the pay and
how important that is.
Dr. Roger Gerard (16:27):
I put that idea of incentives in that
compensation bucket because itis money usually.
Unfortunately, incentives it'sa carrot that comes with a stick
.
Incentives are used to causepeople to do things they
wouldn't otherwise do.
That's called manipulation, andmost of us don't want to be
(16:47):
manipulated.
I would agree We'll take theincentives in the short term,
but we'll resent them in thelong term.
Where I see this play out iswhen, for instance, you give
somebody a sign-on bonus to comein.
So it's a $500 sign-on or$1,000 sign-on.
It's a $500 sign-on or $1,000sign-on.
And then they take it and thenthey find out somebody else got
(17:09):
$1,500.
Oh, or a competitor is offering$1,500.
And now I've locked myself inat $1,000, and how come I didn't
get more Right?
All of this manipulationcreates side effects and
unintended consequences thatjust don't make any sense.
I'm not a fan of the use ofincentives because they have a
(17:31):
backlash that you have tocontend with for years.
It really is difficult.
There's a great book out there,written in the late 80s, called
Punished by Rewards.
Alfie Kahn is the writerK-O-H-N.
It's a marvelous text on whathappens when you use incentives
to try to cause change inbehavior.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (17:49):
Interesting title.
Dr. Roger Gerard (17:51):
And he uses the education industry as an
example.
Once you use incentives, theneverything becomes transactional
.
The intrinsic motivation isreplaced by extrinsic motivation
and once you go there it's kindof hard to go back.
People come out of theireducations with intrinsic
(18:11):
motivation to do all the rightthings.
Correct and now it's anegotiation.
That's a problem.
So safety compensation, and I'mgoing to give you one more.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (18:21):
Okay.
Dr. Roger Gerard (18:22):
Deal with the shortages.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (18:24):
Teacher shortages.
Dr. Roger Gerard (18:26):
Oh my gosh yes .
Dr. Lisa Hassler (18:26):
Yes, okay.
Dr. Roger Gerard (18:28):
The teachers are overburdened.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (18:30):
So how would you suggest them dealing with it
?
Dr. Roger Gerard (18:32):
Well, it's not going to happen until people at
the school board level or theexecutive level of different
educational institutions beginto really understand the role of
the people doing the daily workof teaching.
I was asked by somebodyrecently what would you advise
the leaders of the educationworld to make changes?
(18:55):
The first thing I would ask isdo the teachers know who the
school board members are?
And the answer is no.
The second question is do theboard members ever sit in on any
of the classroom work to seewhat the teachers are doing?
If I were a board member, thefirst thing and the answer is no
.
The second question is do theboard members ever sit in on any
of the classroom work to seewhat the teachers are doing?
If I were a board member, thefirst thing I'd want to do would
be to visit the school andspend a little time watching and
learning, just for my ownbenefit.
(19:15):
So I knew how things worked andI know it doesn't happen, and I
know the idea of that willcause a panic in the heart of
the superintendent or theprincipal of the high school.
I know that'll happen, butshouldn't they have a personal
knowledge of how things work ina school system so that they can
(19:36):
help administration do itdifferently.
I'm lean trained and I helpedintroduce the manufacturing lean
process in a healthcareenvironment and one of the first
things they teach you in thatprocess is that leaders have to
go and see.
If you don't go and see, youdon't know what is going on.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (19:57):
Yeah, I think I've only known one school board
member who did go to theclassrooms and rode the bus and
did the lawn care with thepeople on the weekends and stuff
like that though he was quite aphenomenal school board
representative, but he was anexception.
Dr. Roger Gerard (20:12):
I think that's the first big change that has
to happen in education is thepeople in leadership have to
have a foundationalunderstanding of how the
processes really work, whatreally matters to the people
doing the teaching and how tohelp them be successful.
I was talking with a teacherfriend of mine who allowed me to
come into her classroom.
(20:33):
She teaches art and so Ivisited and there was a box by
the doorway labeled Corral and Isaid what is the Corral?
I don't understand why you havethat.
And she said that's the phoneCorral.
I don't understand why you havethat.
And she said that's the phonecorral.
I said why do you have a phonecorral?
She said if I don't collecttheir phones as they walk into
(20:53):
the classroom, they're not goingto be focused on their art,
they're going to be focused onwhat's going on on their phones.
So we've told the teacher thatshe now has to be a
disciplinarian and we'veencouraged the kids to have a
second phone so that they canstill do what they want to do
while the teacher's not looking.
And that's exactly what's goingon.
(21:14):
You know everything hasconsequences and in that world
she has the prerogative ofhelping these kids do something
very special in the way oflearning the artistic process
and doing some of the thingsthat they do in that classroom.
Some aren't going to make it.
She has to decide whether shegives those people an A or a B
(21:34):
or a C or whatever she's goingto give them as a grade point at
the end of the term and it'sgoing to affect their education.
She has to make those judgmentcalls but she's a disciplinarian
in that process.
That's pretty deflating.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (21:46):
So what do you think a successful organization
looks like in education, then,and how can a balanced, holistic
approach create it?
Dr. Roger Gerard (21:55):
Well, that's a double-barreled question.
A successful educationalstructure will place a high
value on fostering respectfulpartnerships between parents,
educators and the people runningthe system, and I don't see
that as robust as it needs to be.
(22:15):
I hear the teachers saying youknow, we want the parents to be
our partners, but when the pushcomes to shove, not all the
parents are treated that way anddon't feel treated that way.
But I think you can formalize astronger parent participation,
at least for those parents whowant to be involved and
unfortunately many don't, but atleast for those who want to be
(22:38):
involved.
You can foster a higher levelof participation in how learning
is structured.
I think scripting needs to bemanaged very carefully in the
teaching enterprise.
I understand the use of testscores and I understand how test
scores can be a metric ofsuccess or not.
But I don't think it's onlythat.
(23:01):
Metrics are very curious thingsand I've had to deal with this
in healthcare.
I've had to deal with this inworking with law enforcement.
Metrics are very curious things.
You can go to your spouse andsay you know what in this
relationship we need to put ametric on how well we're doing
as a marriage.
I don't know a better way tomess with a relationship.
(23:24):
Okay, you can't measure certainthings.
You can't measure therelationship that a teacher
really feels for the studentsthat they're mentoring and
teaching every day.
You've got to be very carefulthat you understand that the
metrics that we're using areinsufficient and incomplete.
They're not sufficient toreally describe what's really
(23:47):
going on in the teaching process.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (23:50):
Yeah, I think that it depends also on what
you're doing with thoseassessments, if you're using it
as a tool to monitor yourself asa teacher or the school to say,
all right, this is where we are, where are our deficits, and
now what are we going to learnfrom that and how are we going
to grow versus this is now an Fschool and now we're going to
(24:12):
start putting all of thesethings into it, because those
factors create fear, and I thinkthat that fear then has a
negative impact on how we'reteaching and what we're doing
with our students.
So things like specials startbeing pulled out, and well,
there's no more art class,because now we got to really
focus on only math, so we'regoing to have math for two hours
a day instead of saying, allright, how are we going to fix
(24:35):
this?
Let's look at this internallyand what could we be doing a
little bit better, exactly?
And then, of course, there'sretention factor there, and so
that creates fear within thestudent and within the family
and all this around a test.
But if we just changed ouroutlook on it, I think it would
have a more positive effectwhere we still were able to
gauge progress.
Dr. Roger Gerard (24:54):
I'm so glad you put the fear word out there,
because it is present in a lotof cultures and in the
educational culture.
It's present in steroids, andadministrators need to spend
time making it a safe culture sothat people don't have to have
that fear, so they can say whatneeds to be said, so they can do
(25:16):
what needs to be done, and I'mnot sure there's enough focus on
that.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (25:21):
Right.
Dr. Roger Gerard (25:21):
How do you take fear out of the enterprise?
How do you take fear out of theculture?
The opposite of fear is hope.
Yeah, how do you help peoplegenerate an attitude of hope and
kindness to one another?
It's tough in today's society.
We live in a very cynicalsociety today.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (25:39):
So how do you instill the hope to create a
successful organization?
What are those five steps?
Dr. Roger Gerard (25:45):
Five promises.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (25:47):
Okay.
Dr. Roger Gerard (25:47):
I think every leader needs to make five
promises to the people they lead.
This cuts across manyindustries.
Promises are simple.
Promise number one talk to me,I'll listen.
Promise number two give meadvice, I'll treat it seriously.
I might not agree with you, butI will listen to it and I will
consider it.
Promise number three I willhelp you be a professional and
(26:11):
successful beyond your wildestdreams.
Promise number four I will makesure that you are compensated
competitively.
We will treat you respectfullywith regard to compensation.
Promise number five I will haveyour back when things go south.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (26:27):
That'd be great.
Dr. Roger Gerard (26:28):
Think about the environment you're creating,
right.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (26:31):
Yes, yes.
Support to know that someone isbehind you because they trust
you and believe in you that'sbig.
Dr. Roger Gerard (26:37):
If you could convince every principal, every
board member, every supervisorin the education industry to
make promises like that and keepthem.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (26:49):
I think it would create a safe environment,
like you would feel safe tocome to your leader and express
honest opinions and concerns.
I think so.
I think so.
Yeah, that would be great.
So what is the most importantthing you want our audience to
know?
Moving forward, two things Okay, and I end in both the Owning
the Room book and Lead withPurpose book.
Dr. Roger Gerard (27:08):
I end every chapter with these two things
Thing.
And I end in both the Owningthe Room book and Lead with
Purpose book.
I end every chapter with thesetwo things Thing.
Number one go and see.
Okay, if you're not going to goand see, you don't know what's
going on.
Go and see.
You need to get yourself in themiddle of things, not to solve
problems, not to fix somebody,but to go understand what's
(27:28):
going on so that you can makeintelligent choices about that.
Step number two go and dosomething.
Find somebody within the next24 hours and show them some
respect.
Find somebody in the next 24hours and help them be
successful in ways they are notsuccessful today.
(27:49):
Find somebody by next Tuesdaythat you can collaborate with
and do something you've neverdone before.
Go and do.
So it's real simple Go and see,go and do.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (28:03):
Go see and go and do.
That's wonderful Well, thankyou so much, Roger, for joining
me today to discuss the mentalhealth of teachers from
commodification and leadershipsteps to prevent their burnout.
Dr. Roger Gerard (28:15):
Thank you very much.
I enjoyed it thoroughly.
I appreciate it.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (28:18):
The call to action is to spread awareness of
how commodification ineducation is affecting
educators' mental health, sothat institutional leadership
can better support them.
If you have a story aboutwhat's working in your schools
that you'd like to share, youcan email me at lisa at
drlisahasslercom, or visit mywebsite at wwwdrlisahasslercom
(28:40):
and send me a message.
If you like this podcast,subscribe and tell a friend.
The more people that know, thebigger impact it will have.
And if you find value to thecontent in this podcast,
consider becoming a supporter byclicking on the supporter link
in the show notes.
If you have a story about what'sworking in your schools that
you'd like to share, you canemail me at lisa@ drlisarhassler
.
com.
(29:01):
Or visit my website at www.
drlisarhassler.
com and send me a message.
If you like this podcast,subscribe and tell a friend.
The more people that know, thebigger impact it will have.
And if you find value to thecontent in this podcast,
consider becoming a supporter byclicking on the supporter link
in the show notes.
It is the mission of thispodcast to shine light on the
(29:23):
good in education so that itspreads, affecting positive
change.
So let's keep working togetherto find solutions that focus on
our children's success.
Welcome to the Brighter Side of Education.
I'm your host, Dr.
Lisa Hassler, here to enlightenand brighten the classrooms in
America through focusedconversation on important topics
in education.
In each episode, I discussproblems we as teachers and
parents are facing and whatpeople are doing in their
communities to fix it.
What are the variables and howcan we duplicate it to maximize
(00:31):
student outcomes?
In this episode, we'll explorehow teacher co-modification
connects to burnout and whatleaders can do about it.
While teachers enter the fieldwith the best of intentions,
increasing pressures over thepast four years have led to a
persistent national teachershortage.
National data and communityreports indicate critical
shortages of both teachersrelative to pre-pandemic levels
(00:54):
and teachers fully certified toteach in their content area.
A 2022 study by Johns HopkinsUniversity and the American
Educational Research Associationfound that the mental health of
pre-K to 12 teachers has beensignificantly impacted by the
pandemic.
Teachers reported much higheranxiety levels than other
professions, with remoteteachers experiencing even
(01:14):
greater distress.
Us teachers are 40% more likelyto suffer from anxiety than
health care workers and 20% morelikely than office workers.
Cheryl Robinson in her 2024article Teachers here's how to
Successfully Change CareersAfter Burnout, noted that
post-pandemic, there were500,000 fewer educators in US
public schools, with 43% of jobpostings unfulfilled.
(01:38):
Increased workloads, changingcurriculums, economic pressures
and low pay have led manyteachers to question if the
profession is worth it, withmany saying enough.
So what does commodificationhave to do with this anxiety and
how can it be prevented?
To explore effective solutions,we're joined by Dr.
Roger Gerard, a healthcareexecutive and leadership
consultant.
Dr Gerard is the owner of SloanGerard Consulting, a private
(02:02):
consulting practice servingexecutives and boards in
strategic planning, operationalplanning, executive coaching and
management development.
He's also a three-time authorsharing leadership principles
applicable to professional andpersonal settings.
In his upcoming book "Lead withPurpose: Reignite Passion and
Engagement for Professionals inCrisis, he discusses
(02:22):
commodification in careers suchas education and offers
practical strategies to inspirehigh levels of engagement,
preventing burnout.
Dr Gerard, welcome to the showand thank you so much for
joining me today.
Dr. Roger Gerard (02:33):
Thank you for allowing me to be part of this.
I appreciate it.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (02:37):
Your background in the health and
leadership consulting sector forthe past 52 years has led to
your publications On the Mendand Owning the Room, and you
have a latest book, lead withPurpose, and you write about
professionals in crisis.
So what inspired you to focuson this particular area and how
do you believe it can helpteachers?
Dr. Roger Gerard (02:56):
Well, I've had a very privileged career in
that I've been able to spend alot of time with many different
kinds of professionals for over50 years.
It's been a wonderful ride andI've watched in those 50 years
what I think is a decline inrespect for professionals, and
(03:18):
some of it is structural, someof it is institutional, some of
it is just in the paradigms thatwe use as we consider who the
professionals in our society are.
You know, in the HR world aprofessional is defined as
somebody who has a certificateor a license or a degree and
they're capable in thoselicensures or certificates to do
(03:41):
certain things, and that's apretty sterile definition.
Or certificates to do certainthings, and that's a pretty
sterile definition.
My definition of a professionalis somebody who comes to the
workplace wanting to be engagedin doing something that matters,
and in that kind of adefinition we're talking about
people who come to work with acalling.
We know from all of the Gallupresearch today that people
(04:04):
aren't engaged.
They're discovering in theirresearch over the last decade or
so that about 35% of the peopledoing daily work are engaged in
that work.
I mean emotionally connected.
About 35% are not engaged.
They're actively disengaged.
Wow, that's a lot, that's a lot.
(04:25):
And the people in the middleare on the fence.
They're showing up and they'lldo the job.
They're good soldiers butthey're not emotionally
connected to the work.
So if you start thinking of athird, a third and a third the
people who come to work with acalling, with a sense of purpose
, the people who come to workwith a calling, with a sense of
purpose, those folks are special.
(04:47):
And now you want to look at whothey are.
Well, they're the firefighters,they're the teachers, they're
the doctors, they're the nurses.
These are the people who cometo the workplace wanting to make
a difference and do somethingfor somebody.
Those are the folks I've beenable to work with for my career
and I'm seeing today thatthey're not being respected,
(05:07):
they're not being treated as theprofessionals that they are.
So I mean, that's kind of whereI'm at, and I've spent a lot of
time trying to help executivesand managers in many different
organizations see that andrecognize what it's doing to
people with, I hope, somesuccess.
In my book I'm trying toencapsulate in a couple hundred
(05:31):
pages what's happening and whatleaders need to do about it.
That's what it's all about.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (05:37):
So when you're talking about crisis, it's not
being seen as professionals.
The disengagement, that beingon the fence, losing that
passion, the impact of that onsociety, and it's a lot.
Dr. Roger Gerard (05:47):
I mean, it's a social impact, it's an economic
impact.
Think about how work is beingdone today and how much waste
(06:10):
occurs because people arecynical, because they're
apathetic, because they don'twant to do what they're being
asked to do.
All of that is waste, andthere's a lot of it in just
about every organization I'vebeen in.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (06:23):
Yeah, being able to have the right frame of
mind, to be eager aboutembracing what it is that's
being asked of you.
You know that's a bigdifference, because you have
motivation and the motivationmakes you want to jump up and do
it with happiness and with alot of dedication.
And if you don't have thatmotivation, then the dedication
(06:44):
isn't there and I think thequality definitely suffers,
which then of course impactsthose who we're supposed to
serve, and that's the community,and so the community then
suffers you got it.
Dr. Roger Gerard (06:56):
Teachers and educators are one of the groups
that I focus on in my book and Iknow that's part of your focus
and your mission.
And I was, 23 years, chieflearning officer for ThetaCare,
which is a health care systemhere in Wisconsin.
They originally wanted me to bethe chief education officer and
I said no, I'll be the chieflearning officer because it's my
(07:17):
job to help people learn, but Ican't guarantee that they will.
I won't be held accountable fortheir learning.
I'll be held accountable forcreating that environment where
they can learn.
So that's what we did for 23hours.
We have to be very careful abouthow we treat metrics and how we
treat the work thatprofessionals are there to do.
(07:38):
One of the words that I use iscommodity.
We are standardizing work, weare scripting the teachers.
We are creating standardapproaches for education, and
most people in their academicbackground learned that there
are many different ways to learnand people come with different
(08:00):
preferences in their learningstyles.
We know that and because weknow that, we need to be very
careful about how we standardizethe learning process in our
education systems.
I happen to be the parent of ayoung man who has special
learning needs.
It was very, very difficult towork with the school systems to
make sure that his needs wereaccommodated properly and
(08:24):
appropriately.
But from the standpoint of theeducators, they're constrained
too.
I mean, they're encouraged toteach to the test course.
They're encouraged to teach incertain content that they may or
may not have been trained toteach.
They are expected to teach to ascript.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (08:44):
Is that where the commodification comes from?
Yes, so what exactly iscommodification?
Dr. Roger Gerard (08:49):
A commodity in economics is a base material.
For instance, it's gold orsilver or steel.
It's the basic materials andyou can't brand it.
It is what it is.
In farming, it's eggs or greenpeppers or carrots.
How do you brand that stuff?
I mean, people try, but it'sall exchangeable.
(09:12):
When you start commodifyingteachers, what you're doing is
you're saying you'reexchangeable, you're there to do
a specific purpose and youdon't get to have autonomy in
that purpose.
It's all about autonomy.
It's all about how muchinfluence you can have on your
professional practice.
In healthcare, standardizedprocess for a physician to treat
(09:37):
a diabetic patient startstaking the autonomy away from
the physician about how eachindividual should be treated.
Education is no different.
I know that teachers would liketo be able to individualize
their teaching with the studentsbecause that's how the light
bulbs go on.
But once you script them, theteachers are bound by a script.
(10:00):
And when you start puttingmetrics like test scores on the
teachers and say this goal hasto really perform on the
national test scores or thestatewide test scores, well, now
you're putting another set ofconstraints on the teachers and
eventually they feel likecommodities.
What am I really supposed to dohere?
I was taught how to practice aprofession of teaching, but I'm
(10:23):
not allowed to do all the thingsI know how to do.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (10:25):
So it does take out the creativity and some
of that individualism that weas teachers know that the
children need.
I agree there is a certainamount of scripting that does
happen, I think, especially inthe public sector, more so than
other schools, where they reallysay like everyone needs to be
on, and I'm not sure how this isin other school districts, but
(10:46):
I have been in a school districtwhere it said, all right, the
entire district, if you're inthird grade, you need to be this
day, on this page in the mathbook, everybody has to be there,
and so there are some that havevery tight schedules, and I
understand the frame of mindlike we want to make sure that
all the children are getting allof the education that they're
supposed to.
But on the other hand, it doeshold the teacher a little bit
(11:09):
hostage to not be able to takethe time if he or she believes
the students need to actually godeeper into a concept because
maybe they were notunderstanding it, and so I feel
like they kind of are beingpulled by two different forces
to say this is what my boss issaying, but this is what the
children need, and so it's a tug, and I think it can be kind of
(11:30):
difficult.
Dr. Roger Gerard (11:31):
It's more than difficult for some.
As people come out of theireducation process and go into
the teaching world, they haveexpectations, they're wide-eyed,
they're excited, they want todo some new things and what you
see is after about two to threeyears, turnover goes up.
They either leave to go tosomewhere else to teach or they
(11:53):
go out of the professionaltogether.
That effect is an interestingeffect as you start thinking
about what we're doing to thesepeople coming into the workplace
.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (12:02):
So is that how ?
Commodification, then, isleading to burnout?
Dr. Roger Gerard (12:06):
Absolutely.
I just read an article producedby Forbes last week.
The industry has lost over500,000 teachers in the last
five years.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (12:15):
That's wild, because the teacher shortage
started pre-pandemic and, ofcourse, the pandemic just
intensified that because of theexpectations, and I think just
society as a whole has alsochanged because so many parents
were able to see what was goingon in the classroom in a sense,
even though it wasn't really theclassroom when it comes to, you
(12:36):
know, being online, it was notthe normal and so I think that
people became more invested andinterested in what was going on
in the classroom and because ofthat, we've got a lot of
policies and a lot of peoplelooking at our shoulders saying
I think you should be doing thatand you're not doing this right
.
So add this, add this, andafter a while it just gets to be
too much.
Dr. Roger Gerard (12:58):
It can be a lot, and you know the teachers
today, and this goes back to howthey're being treated, this
whole idea of respect.
Teachers are not only expectedto teach, they're also expected
to be disciplinarians.
They're also expected to besafety protocol experts.
They're also expected to,sometimes by the parents, to be
(13:19):
mom.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (13:19):
Nurses and psychologists too, yeah.
Dr. Roger Gerard (13:23):
And so when you start laying on top of the
teaching function all of theseother layers, eventually the
teacher kind of looks up fromthis mess and says hold it, what
am I supposed to be doing here?
Dr. Lisa Hassler (13:42):
What is?
Dr. Roger Gerard (13:42):
happening and you know, it's really easy for
an administrator to sit in anoffice and basically, say well,
you know, the teacher's there.
Maybe they can take on thisresponsibility, but every time
that happens, they're beingtaken away from their teaching
role, which is why they're therein the first place.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (14:02):
I think that's then why you get that
disengagement.
If you're not able to do it ina way that's giving you that
motivation, then you can becomedisengaged.
Dr. Roger Gerard (14:11):
Motivation is a choice.
It's not something a leader cando to you.
It's something that you chooseto be and you're going to make
that choice based on how you'rebeing treated.
Choose to be, and you're goingto make that choice based on how
you're being treated.
Engagement is a choice.
It's an emotional choice and ifwe don't pay attention to the
emotions and the needs of thepeople doing the daily work of
(14:31):
teaching, they're not going tocome to that workplace motivated
.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (14:35):
So what steps can the educational leaders take
to re-engage educators?
Dr. Roger Gerard (14:41):
Well, first you have to understand what
teachers want and need.
Teachers want safety.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (14:45):
Yes.
Dr. Roger Gerard (14:46):
In today's world, that's a big deal.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (14:48):
Yeah, Safe campuses.
They want to make sure thattheir kids are going to be safe
and that they are definitely.
Dr. Roger Gerard (14:53):
Absolutely.
Teachers want competitive pay.
It's not all about the money,but they want to know that
they're being respected asprofessionals with competitive
pay.
That's a struggle.
I was working with one schoolsystem where the pay was
literally at the 40th percentile.
You have to be at the 50thpercentile to be competitive and
(15:16):
their comp ratio was not goodand I asked to see how they
calibrated their pay.
And their pay was calibratedbased on data that was over a
year old.
Well, things move.
And when I suggested that theyneeded to have a more robust
approach to determiningcompetitive pay, the HR people
were kind of paralyzed becausethe school board had put an
(15:39):
absolute freeze on teacher payfor the previous year and a half
and for the future year.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (15:45):
I have a couple of things to add about
that.
When I first started teaching,the pay was so low that I was so
excited after I don't evenremember how many years of
teaching that my pay wasactually above the poverty level
.
I am not kidding you and I waslike celebrating.
I was like, oh my gosh, look atthis, look at this.
I got a raise this year.
I am now above the povertylevel.
(16:06):
It was a private school, butyou just want to be able to live
.
I love what I do and I want togive it my heart and soul, but I
also want to be able to putfood on the table.
That matters.
And so when you look atincentives versus the pay, the
pay is important because we allneed to live, but the incentives
are nice, you know.
So we can come back toincentives versus the pay and
how important that is.
Dr. Roger Gerard (16:27):
I put that idea of incentives in that
compensation bucket because itis money usually.
Unfortunately, incentives it'sa carrot that comes with a stick
.
Incentives are used to causepeople to do things they
wouldn't otherwise do.
That's called manipulation, andmost of us don't want to be
(16:47):
manipulated.
I would agree We'll take theincentives in the short term,
but we'll resent them in thelong term.
Where I see this play out iswhen, for instance, you give
somebody a sign-on bonus to comein.
So it's a $500 sign-on or$1,000 sign-on.
It's a $500 sign-on or $1,000sign-on.
And then they take it and thenthey find out somebody else got
(17:09):
$1,500.
Oh, or a competitor is offering$1,500.
And now I've locked myself inat $1,000, and how come I didn't
get more Right?
All of this manipulationcreates side effects and
unintended consequences thatjust don't make any sense.
I'm not a fan of the use ofincentives because they have a
(17:31):
backlash that you have tocontend with for years.
It really is difficult.
There's a great book out there,written in the late 80s, called
Punished by Rewards.
Alfie Kahn is the writerK-O-H-N.
It's a marvelous text on whathappens when you use incentives
to try to cause change inbehavior.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (17:49):
Interesting title.
Dr. Roger Gerard (17:51):
And he uses the education industry as an
example.
Once you use incentives, theneverything becomes transactional
.
The intrinsic motivation isreplaced by extrinsic motivation
and once you go there it's kindof hard to go back.
People come out of theireducations with intrinsic
(18:11):
motivation to do all the rightthings.
Correct and now it's anegotiation.
That's a problem.
So safety compensation, and I'mgoing to give you one more.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (18:21):
Okay.
Dr. Roger Gerard (18:22):
Deal with the shortages.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (18:24):
Teacher shortages.
Dr. Roger Gerard (18:26):
Oh my gosh yes .
Dr. Lisa Hassler (18:26):
Yes, okay.
Dr. Roger Gerard (18:28):
The teachers are overburdened.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (18:30):
So how would you suggest them dealing with it
?
Dr. Roger Gerard (18:32):
Well, it's not going to happen until people at
the school board level or theexecutive level of different
educational institutions beginto really understand the role of
the people doing the daily workof teaching.
I was asked by somebodyrecently what would you advise
the leaders of the educationworld to make changes?
(18:55):
The first thing I would ask isdo the teachers know who the
school board members are?
And the answer is no.
The second question is do theboard members ever sit in on any
of the classroom work to seewhat the teachers are doing?
If I were a board member, thefirst thing and the answer is no
.
The second question is do theboard members ever sit in on any
of the classroom work to seewhat the teachers are doing?
If I were a board member, thefirst thing I'd want to do would
be to visit the school andspend a little time watching and
learning, just for my ownbenefit.
(19:15):
So I knew how things worked andI know it doesn't happen, and I
know the idea of that willcause a panic in the heart of
the superintendent or theprincipal of the high school.
I know that'll happen, butshouldn't they have a personal
knowledge of how things work ina school system so that they can
(19:36):
help administration do itdifferently.
I'm lean trained and I helpedintroduce the manufacturing lean
process in a healthcareenvironment and one of the first
things they teach you in thatprocess is that leaders have to
go and see.
If you don't go and see, youdon't know what is going on.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (19:57):
Yeah, I think I've only known one school board
member who did go to theclassrooms and rode the bus and
did the lawn care with thepeople on the weekends and stuff
like that though he was quite aphenomenal school board
representative, but he was anexception.
Dr. Roger Gerard (20:12):
I think that's the first big change that has
to happen in education is thepeople in leadership have to
have a foundationalunderstanding of how the
processes really work, whatreally matters to the people
doing the teaching and how tohelp them be successful.
I was talking with a teacherfriend of mine who allowed me to
come into her classroom.
(20:33):
She teaches art and so Ivisited and there was a box by
the doorway labeled Corral and Isaid what is the Corral?
I don't understand why you havethat.
And she said that's the phoneCorral.
I don't understand why you havethat.
And she said that's the phonecorral.
I said why do you have a phonecorral?
She said if I don't collecttheir phones as they walk into
(20:53):
the classroom, they're not goingto be focused on their art,
they're going to be focused onwhat's going on on their phones.
So we've told the teacher thatshe now has to be a
disciplinarian and we'veencouraged the kids to have a
second phone so that they canstill do what they want to do
while the teacher's not looking.
And that's exactly what's goingon.
(21:14):
You know everything hasconsequences and in that world
she has the prerogative ofhelping these kids do something
very special in the way oflearning the artistic process
and doing some of the thingsthat they do in that classroom.
Some aren't going to make it.
She has to decide whether shegives those people an A or a B
(21:34):
or a C or whatever she's goingto give them as a grade point at
the end of the term and it'sgoing to affect their education.
She has to make those judgmentcalls but she's a disciplinarian
in that process.
That's pretty deflating.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (21:46):
So what do you think a successful organization
looks like in education, then,and how can a balanced, holistic
approach create it?
Dr. Roger Gerard (21:55):
Well, that's a double-barreled question.
A successful educationalstructure will place a high
value on fostering respectfulpartnerships between parents,
educators and the people runningthe system, and I don't see
that as robust as it needs to be.
(22:15):
I hear the teachers saying youknow, we want the parents to be
our partners, but when the pushcomes to shove, not all the
parents are treated that way anddon't feel treated that way.
But I think you can formalize astronger parent participation,
at least for those parents whowant to be involved and
unfortunately many don't, but atleast for those who want to be
(22:38):
involved.
You can foster a higher levelof participation in how learning
is structured.
I think scripting needs to bemanaged very carefully in the
teaching enterprise.
I understand the use of testscores and I understand how test
scores can be a metric ofsuccess or not.
But I don't think it's onlythat.
(23:01):
Metrics are very curious thingsand I've had to deal with this
in healthcare.
I've had to deal with this inworking with law enforcement.
Metrics are very curious things.
You can go to your spouse andsay you know what in this
relationship we need to put ametric on how well we're doing
as a marriage.
I don't know a better way tomess with a relationship.
(23:24):
Okay, you can't measure certainthings.
You can't measure therelationship that a teacher
really feels for the studentsthat they're mentoring and
teaching every day.
You've got to be very carefulthat you understand that the
metrics that we're using areinsufficient and incomplete.
They're not sufficient toreally describe what's really
(23:47):
going on in the teaching process.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (23:50):
Yeah, I think that it depends also on what
you're doing with thoseassessments, if you're using it
as a tool to monitor yourself asa teacher or the school to say,
all right, this is where we are, where are our deficits, and
now what are we going to learnfrom that and how are we going
to grow versus this is now an Fschool and now we're going to
(24:12):
start putting all of thesethings into it, because those
factors create fear, and I thinkthat that fear then has a
negative impact on how we'reteaching and what we're doing
with our students.
So things like specials startbeing pulled out, and well,
there's no more art class,because now we got to really
focus on only math, so we'regoing to have math for two hours
a day instead of saying, allright, how are we going to fix
(24:35):
this?
Let's look at this internallyand what could we be doing a
little bit better, exactly?
And then, of course, there'sretention factor there, and so
that creates fear within thestudent and within the family
and all this around a test.
But if we just changed ouroutlook on it, I think it would
have a more positive effectwhere we still were able to
gauge progress.
Dr. Roger Gerard (24:54):
I'm so glad you put the fear word out there,
because it is present in a lotof cultures and in the
educational culture.
It's present in steroids, andadministrators need to spend
time making it a safe culture sothat people don't have to have
that fear, so they can say whatneeds to be said, so they can do
(25:16):
what needs to be done, and I'mnot sure there's enough focus on
that.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (25:21):
Right.
Dr. Roger Gerard (25:21):
How do you take fear out of the enterprise?
How do you take fear out of theculture?
The opposite of fear is hope.
Yeah, how do you help peoplegenerate an attitude of hope and
kindness to one another?
It's tough in today's society.
We live in a very cynicalsociety today.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (25:39):
So how do you instill the hope to create a
successful organization?
What are those five steps?
Dr. Roger Gerard (25:45):
Five promises.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (25:47):
Okay.
Dr. Roger Gerard (25:47):
I think every leader needs to make five
promises to the people they lead.
This cuts across manyindustries.
Promises are simple.
Promise number one talk to me,I'll listen.
Promise number two give meadvice, I'll treat it seriously.
I might not agree with you, butI will listen to it and I will
consider it.
Promise number three I willhelp you be a professional and
(26:11):
successful beyond your wildestdreams.
Promise number four I will makesure that you are compensated
competitively.
We will treat you respectfullywith regard to compensation.
Promise number five I will haveyour back when things go south.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (26:27):
That'd be great.
Dr. Roger Gerard (26:28):
Think about the environment you're creating,
right.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (26:31):
Yes, yes.
Support to know that someone isbehind you because they trust
you and believe in you that'sbig.
Dr. Roger Gerard (26:37):
If you could convince every principal, every
board member, every supervisorin the education industry to
make promises like that and keepthem.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (26:49):
I think it would create a safe environment,
like you would feel safe tocome to your leader and express
honest opinions and concerns.
I think so.
I think so.
Yeah, that would be great.
So what is the most importantthing you want our audience to
know?
Moving forward, two things Okay, and I end in both the Owning
the Room book and Lead withPurpose book.
Dr. Roger Gerard (27:08):
I end every chapter with these two things
Thing.
And I end in both the Owningthe Room book and Lead with
Purpose book.
I end every chapter with thesetwo things Thing.
Number one go and see.
Okay, if you're not going to goand see, you don't know what's
going on.
Go and see.
You need to get yourself in themiddle of things, not to solve
problems, not to fix somebody,but to go understand what's
(27:28):
going on so that you can makeintelligent choices about that.
Step number two go and dosomething.
Find somebody within the next24 hours and show them some
respect.
Find somebody in the next 24hours and help them be
successful in ways they are notsuccessful today.
(27:49):
Find somebody by next Tuesdaythat you can collaborate with
and do something you've neverdone before.
Go and do.
So it's real simple Go and see,go and do.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (28:03):
Go see and go and do.
That's wonderful Well, thankyou so much, Roger, for joining
me today to discuss the mentalhealth of teachers from
commodification and leadershipsteps to prevent their burnout.
Dr. Roger Gerard (28:15):
Thank you very much.
I enjoyed it thoroughly.
I appreciate it.
Dr. Lisa Hassler (28:18):
The call to action is to spread awareness of
how commodification ineducation is affecting
educators' mental health, sothat institutional leadership
can better support them.
If you have a story aboutwhat's working in your schools
that you'd like to share, youcan email me at lisa at
drlisahasslercom, or visit mywebsite at wwwdrlisahasslercom
(28:40):
and send me a message.
If you like this podcast,subscribe and tell a friend.
The more people that know, thebigger impact it will have.
And if you find value to thecontent in this podcast,
consider becoming a supporter byclicking on the supporter link
in the show notes.
If you have a story about what'sworking in your schools that
you'd like to share, you canemail me at lisa@ drlisarhassler
.
com.
(29:01):
Or visit my website at www.
drlisarhassler.
com and send me a message.
If you like this podcast,subscribe and tell a friend.
The more people that know, thebigger impact it will have.
And if you find value to thecontent in this podcast,
consider becoming a supporter byclicking on the supporter link
in the show notes.
It is the mission of thispodcast to shine light on the
(29:23):
good in education so that itspreads, affecting positive
change.
So let's keep working togetherto find solutions that focus on
our children's success.
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