September 20, 2024 • 29 mins
Ever wondered how a single mom can pay off over $40,000 in credit card debt? Join us as we bring you the remarkable story of Kari Karber, Assistant Director of Customer Benefits at the Employees' Retirement System of Texas (ERS). Kari opens up about her inspiring journey from financial struggle to stability, sharing the practical strategies and mindset shifts that helped her achieve this incredible feat. As a single mother of two daughters, Kari's story is not just about numbers: it's a testament to resilience, determination, and the power of small, consistent steps in transforming one's financial future. Discover how she balanced her role at ERS, helping state employees navigate their retirement and insurance benefits, while also benefiting from those very services herself.
In this episode, we dive into the nitty-gritty of managing finances during tough times, especially when it comes to supporting children's needs without breaking the bank. Keri reveals how leveraging community resources and being transparent about financial constraints can lead to creative, budget-friendly solutions. Learn about the practical tools she used for debt management, from setting percentage-based goals to visual progress trackers. We also explore the emotional highs and lows, including the joy of buying a wedding dress and preparing for future expenses like college and weddings. Tune in for a treasure trove of insights and actionable tips that can help you achieve financial stability and success.
Resources to Support Financial Well-being:
Baby-Steps to Financial Freedom Webinar
Budgeting & Debt Reduction Webinar
Retirement Planning from New Hire to Retiree Webinar
Texa$aver by Empower Website
OCCC's Budget Worksheet
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I was looking at just over $40,000 in credit card
debt, with minimum paymentstotaling just minimum payments
totaling $700 a month.
I didn't know if I was going tohave enough money to cover all
of my bills and all of thoseminimum payments from that debt
and to cover my mortgage andschool supplies, and basketball
(00:22):
shoes and gas and all of thethings.
So now having the money in mybudget to not only pay that debt
but then to contribute to mysavings and to helping others, I
think you know it's completelychanged my mindset.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Hi and welcome to the ERS Walk Talk podcast, where we
explore stories that inspire,motivate and connect.
Today, we are going behind thescenes at Employees Retirement
System of Texas and you're goingto hear from one of the amazing
people that I get to work withon a regular basis.
I'm thrilled to introduce youto Keri Carver, who is our
Assistant Director of CustomerBenefits at ERS.
(01:04):
Keri has over 16 years ofexperience with the agency.
She started out as a benefitscounselor and her dedication to
our members is unmatched.
I can tell you that no onecares more about our ERS plan
participants and members thanKeri.
In this episode, keri will openup about her personal journey
with paying off over $40,000 incredit card debt as a single mom
(01:26):
with two daughters.
We're going to dive into thestrategies she used to overcome
her own financial challenges andhow she used that experience
and how it transformed hermindset around money and
especially in today's world,where it often feels like we
constantly need more.
I think Carrie's is one ofresilience and empowerment.
She talks about how she wasable to develop a lot of
(01:48):
discipline through herexperience, and I think she
offers some really valuableinsights for anyone looking to
take control over theirfinancial future.
So, without further ado, here'smy conversation with my friend
and colleague, ms Carrie Carver.
Carrie, welcome to the ERS WalkTalk podcast and thank you for
being willing to be a guest onthe show.
(02:08):
Absolutely Happy to be here.
Yeah, I've already introducedyou to our listeners, talked a
little bit about your bio, but Iwas hoping you could just share
with folks a little bit aboutwhat you do here at ERS.
What does your day look likenormally and how long have you
worked here?
Speaker 1 (02:24):
Well, I am the assistant director of benefits
counseling within our customerbenefits division and typically
when someone asks me what I dofor a living, I say I change
lives.
So within customer benefits,you know getting to assist folks
every day with their retirementand insurance benefits, it's
(02:46):
life-changing stuff and I'msuper proud to be a part of that
.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
That's great, and you have really worked your way up
through the ranks at ERS.
How long have you been here?
Speaker 1 (02:58):
A little over 16 years now.
I started out as a benefitscounselor myself.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
You can't see her, but she looks very young, so she
started very young.
I started out as a benefitscounselor myself.
You can't see her, but shelooks very young, so she started
very young I did.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
I started pretty young, Actually.
I remember starting in benefitscounseling and the maximum age
that you could cover a child atthat time was age 25.
At that time was age 25.
And I started with ERS at 24.
(03:31):
Wow, and thought man must benice if your mom or your dad are
still carrying you on yourinsurance, because I'm
definitely covering myself.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Yeah, just jumped out there and started in the real
world.
I've been able to work with youin some projects and I've been
in several meetings with youover the years and you're super
passionate about what you do.
Can you just share with peoplewhat you love about your job and
kind of what keeps you here atERS?
Speaker 1 (03:52):
Yeah, absolutely.
I love helping people.
I love talking about ourretirement.
My very favorite thing iseducating on our retirement
benefits and I think the thingthat keeps me here is, as a
state employee, we're reallypart of a big family and I love
that.
I love that I am part of thisfamily with state employees.
(04:16):
I love the ERS family as anagency and I love the family
that I have even within mydivision of customer benefits,
and I think one of the mostspecial things about ERS as a
state agency that's reallydifferent is that we are our
members.
So I'm a state employee, I'menrolled in the exact same
(04:38):
benefits that I get toadminister and there is so much
passion behind that.
I think whenever you arelooking at benefits and
educating on benefits that youknow impact you as well directly
Like.
the eligibility I'm discussingwith you is the exact same
eligibility that applies to me.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
Yeah, that's great and I know that passion comes
through.
It trickles down to your staff.
Everyone seems to be just sokind and patient through that
customer service aspect of theagency.
So I know you have done a lotof things at ERS, but you also
have another life outside that.
You have family, and that'sreally.
(05:17):
What we're here to talk about.
Today is a little bit aboutyour personal experience with
debt reduction, because lastmonth, as we were chatting, you
were talking about financialwellness and I know this is a
topic that's really near anddear to your heart and I was
hoping that you could share thatstory.
Just talk to our listeners,because I think so many people
(05:39):
do have a lot of financialstruggles and sometimes it seems
overwhelming.
And your story when you weretelling me about it, I was
thinking man, this would be areally great thing to share,
just to inspire people thatmight be feeling that
overwhelmed.
So do you mind sharing withfolks the moment where you
decided you needed to dosomething to change your
(06:01):
financial habits?
Speaker 1 (06:02):
Yeah, absolutely.
So I would say that it startedreally while I was married.
So I was divorced in March of2018.
And prior to my divorce, I knewthat our financial journey was
not a healthy one.
My then husband was havingdifficulty with work and had a
(06:24):
period of time where he didn'thave a job, and as a result of
that, you know you, when you'reliving an entire family on one
income, finances were were tough.
So we used credit cards andthings like that.
Well then, whenever I wasgetting divorced, prior to my
divorce, I didn't realize thatall of those credit cards were
(06:48):
in my name, with my then husbandas an authorized user.
Wow.
So whenever I was gettingdivorced, my attorney notified
me that, really, all of thiscredit card debt would be
transferred to me during thedivorce, transferred to me
(07:08):
during the during the divorce.
So I very quickly realized thatI needed to do something to be
able to just live after mydivorce.
You know, a single mom, um,with a mortgage and all of all
of these debt payments.
So I, uh, I started a plan.
We had previously takenFinancial Peace University, and
one of the things that DaveRamsey says in Financial Peace
(07:31):
University is you know, when thecreditors start calling you.
You say you know you're notabove the line, right?
Everything above the line iseverything you have to pay to
keep a roof over your head, tokeep your car running, to keep
clothes on your back, andanything that falls below the
line just doesn't get paid.
So with that kind of mindset,even before I was divorced, I
(07:54):
contacted every single creditcard company and said I don't
know what you can do for me.
I don't know if there'sanything that you can do for me,
but if there is anything thatcan be done, I would appreciate
it.
And there was actually a coupleof the credit cards that I had.
I had a total of, I believe, ofseven credit cards at that time
even like small.
(08:15):
You know retailer credit cardsup to big like visas, and a
couple of those cards wereactually able to do something
for me.
You never know until you ask.
I think that's a really keypoint, especially when I'm
speaking to friends or familyjust ask, you never know until
you ask.
So once I had spoken to everysingle one of them and kind of
(08:38):
laid out a plan, I was lookingat just over $40,000 in credit
card debt, with minimum paymentstotaling just minimum payments
totaling $700 a month, andyou'll never get it paid off at
that minimum payment right.
Definitely did not feel like Iwould, that is for sure.
Whenever you added my mortgageand these minimum payments, my
(09:03):
regular bills, I had very, verylittle money left within the
month and you have two kids.
I have two daughters, yes, whichI think daughters are
definitely more expensive.
So I had two daughters and lotsof expenses for sure, right, so
I think starting out that planof you know paying everything
(09:27):
that absolutely had to be paidfirst, as state employees, you
know we only get paid once amonth typically, and that
actually helped me quite a bitwith my budgeting.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
That's great.
So you or going through thedivorce and you find out all of
this debt is going to betransferred to you, or you're
going to end up with all of thedebt from the marriage.
And at that point you decidedI'm doing this, I'm coming up
with this plan At some point.
I'm going to guess you probablyhad some challenges in there,
(09:58):
right?
Yeah, definitely.
Along the way can you sharewhat kind of challenges you
might have faced as you weregoing through?
Speaker 1 (10:04):
that For sure, yeah, can you share what kind of
challenges you might have facedas you were going through that?
For sure, yeah, one of mybiggest challenges, I think, was
determining what's truly a wantand what's truly a need.
Right, and really getting downto the root of necessity,
because whenever you have noextra, there is no room for
wants, and one of the thingsthat I did as a result of that
(10:27):
was I started a list of wants,oh, yes, so that whenever there
came a time where I could buildin some of those wants into the
budget, I knew for sure whichones really meant the most to me
, and making that list made ahuge difference, because several
things that I wanted in themoment a month later, two months
(10:50):
later fell off of the list.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
And.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
I no longer even wanted those things.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
Well, I don't want to skip too far ahead in this
story, but it's a happy ending.
It's a very happy ending yes,you end up paying off all your
debt.
How long did it take you to getthere?
Two years, wow.
So you paid off $40,000 ofcredit card debt in two years on
a single income.
Yes, with two kids.
Yes, on a state salary.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
Correct yeah, february of 2020 is when I paid
it off.
That's incredible.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
You should celebrate that Every year Absolutely
Debt-free celebration.
So let's talk about, if youdon't mind, kind of sharing.
I know that you're an Excelguru.
You love spreadsheets Noteverybody loves spreadsheets but
is that how you track?
Like?
What did you do?
How did you keep track?
Speaker 1 (11:36):
You know, I wish I could say that it was cooler
than that, honestly.
But yeah, I really actuallyused Excel to track it.
I tracked it on my budget.
You know, I was raised where westill had the classes when we
were in high school on how to doa check register and I
essentially did a check registerin Excel.
(11:59):
So every single transactionthat I had I would track it and
deduct it from my total amountof money.
You know, one of the thingsthat Dave Ramsey says is give
every dollar a name.
Every dollar has a name.
I had names that I wanted togive to dollars and I did not
have the dollars to give themthe names at times.
(12:19):
But tracking that in Excelhelped a lot, and there's an app
actually on an Apple devicethat is numbers, which is
essentially Excel on your phone.
So I had it on there as welland on my computer and on my
phone, and I would just track itacross both.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
Yes, Wow, that's great.
That is fantastic and as youwere going through and you talk
about, you know giving everydollar a name.
You know two years is a longtime to go.
Go without.
What are things that you feellike you sacrificed during that
time, man?
Speaker 1 (12:57):
for for me and for my kids new, anything new,
anything new, really.
Yep, whenever my oldestdaughter started her basketball
season, she needed a new pair ofbasketball shoes, a pair of
basketball shoes that would fit.
And so I have a sister thatlives in the area that has older
(13:19):
daughters, and so I reached outto my sister and said hey, do
you have any basketball shoesthat are in this size that
you're wanting to get rid of orthat I could buy from?
You Reached out to friends withthe same question, and Goodwill
, thrift stores, all kinds ofthings like that, just to see,
there's also Facebook groupscalled Buy Nothing, and it's
(13:41):
based upon the area that youlived in, and you can actually
request things on those buynothing groups.
They call them wishes, and then, whenever you give something
away, they call them gifts.
So really that that made all ofthe difference in in several
ways.
Um, and basketball shoes.
You know, I told my sister andshe's like I'm sure we can find
(14:03):
something and had them for mydaughter the next day.
Wow.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
That's amazing.
Well, that's a good segue intomy next question.
What kind of support did youreceive from family friends?
Did you ever feel pressured bypeople to spend money to go out
to dinner or things like that,or did you feel like everyone
was pretty much supported?
Did you tell people like thisis what I'm doing?
Speaker 1 (14:24):
Yeah, I'm obviously a pretty open book and I think
that that's really important,especially when you're on a
journey that you're passionateabout, no matter what that
journey is right Financial,mental health, physical health,
any of those things I think it'sreally important to be open
with your network of support.
(14:45):
So for me, I told family andfriends listen, y'all, this
budget is tight, so unless it'san absolute must, I'm not
participating.
And my friends made adjustmentsto have a movie night at
someone's house and my sisterand I we did lots of hiking,
(15:06):
actually, and would do lots oftrips to the thrift store and
that was our you know, funsplurge and I would budget a
certain amount that I wouldpotentially be able to spend and
, honestly, it became a reallyfun challenge of finding things
that I could purchase for mygirls and for myself within that
(15:28):
budget.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
That's great and our listeners can't see us right now
, but Carrie's very stylish andshe's always wearing the cutest
clothes.
She'll be like I got this atthe thrift store and I'm a
thrift store shopper as well, sothat's super fun.
So you talked about the Excelbeing your kind of primary tool.
Are there any other tools orthings that you would recommend
(15:48):
for somebody that maybe wants towork on debt management?
That worked?
That helped you.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
I mean honestly it's not.
It's not necessarily a tool interms of like an app, but goals,
yeah, a hundred percent.
Yeah.
So what I did for myself thatreally really, really really
helped me was I set percentagegoals.
So once I've paid off 5%, I hadjust a box that I would check.
(16:17):
Literally just check the boxand you have no idea how good it
feels to check that 5%, andthen you check that 10%.
I paid off 10% of my debt, wow.
And then you know moving alongwhenever it got up to 75%.
Man, that's a really good day,did you?
Speaker 2 (16:37):
have that posted somewhere, like where you could
see it, or Well, lacey, I had anExcel spreadsheet for it,
actually.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
Actually, actually, let me just show you on my phone
, I literally have an Excelspreadsheet for those goals as
well.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
That's fantastic.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
Just a little box.
I would check it and have ohyes, yeah, that's amazing.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
And for our listeners out there, I will put a link.
There's a really good Excelspreadsheet that is available.
And for our listeners out there, I will put a link.
There's a really good Excelspreadsheet that is available.
I think it's an Excel.
It might be in PDF, but theOffice of Consumer Credit
Commissioner put together afantastic budgeting worksheet
that I think can help to setgoals, because so often we don't
even know where our money'sgoing, and I know that's helped
(17:23):
my husband and I to really sitdown, and we have a budget
meeting once a month where wesit down and go through our
finances and make sure we're ontrack for those goals.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
Yeah, I have a friend actually that came to me and
said hey, I'm a newly single mom, I could really use your help.
And Excel is not her favoritething In fact I would say
probably her least favoritething and she's very big on
planners and she has a plannerthat she uses daily, she carries
(17:54):
with her, she calls it herbrain, and so we built out a
budget for her in her planner.
So I think it's not necessarilyas much about the platform that
you want to use, but using whatyou love already.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
Right.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
I love working in Excel, so it makes sense for me
to use that.
If you're someone that likes tohave things written down, then
do that.
I actually helped anotherfriend with their budget and
their debt was not nearly assizable as mine, and we actually
used Legos.
Oh, and we had a stack of Legoswhere we built a pyramid out of
(18:33):
the Legos of all of the debtthat she was hoping to pay off.
Wow, and each time she paid off$100 of that debt, she would
take a Lego and move it to thepaid off pyramid.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
That's great.
Yeah, I think it's.
It's about it's a visual.
It works for you.
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
And that's the visual of setting the goals is what
really worked well for me versusLegos worked great for her.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
Yeah, Because it's when you stop seeing that, that
forward momentum or thatprogress, it's easy to go back
to our old behaviors which is Ithink what we see in all health,
absolutely.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
Well, and it's tough to see something that is
financial because it's locatedin places that are not tangible,
right?
So you can't see it all day,every day, which I think is part
of the reason why, for me, Igot into debt to begin with,
right, because, out of sight,out of mind, I just swipe your
card and you don't see how muchthat's impacting you, and how
(19:34):
heavy that mountain can become.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
Absolutely.
How has your mindset towardmoney changed over the course of
this journey and becomingdebt-free?
Speaker 1 (19:45):
money changed over this, the course of this journey
and becoming debt-free.
Well, I, as you asked me thatmy first thought is, I actually
ran into a friend and coworkerliterally just last week in the
break room and I said what areyou up to?
And they said paying bills.
And this friend is also asingle mom and I said don't you
love paying bills?
(20:05):
She's like man, I love payingbills Because there was a time
in my life where I didn't knowif I was going to be able to.
Yeah, I didn't know if I wasgoing to have enough money to
cover all of my bills and all ofthose minimum payments from
that debt and to cover mymortgage and school supplies and
(20:26):
basketball shoes and gas andall of the things.
So now, having the money in mybudget to not only pay that debt
but then to contribute to mysavings and to helping others, I
think you know it's completelychanged my mindset because it's
not a I have to pay my bills,it's a I get to pay my bills and
(20:50):
I can Wow, and when you know,you know it's definitely a
freeing feeling, truly.
I I've said many times that Ihad a mountain of debt and.
I genuinely initially thoughtthat it would crush me, but you
know, faith, as small as amustard seed can move mountains.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
That is amazing, and it is an interesting mind shift
to say I'm so grateful I can paybills.
You don't hear people say thatvery often, so I love that.
What did you learn aboutyourself through this process
and how has that affected yourhabits?
Just in general?
Speaker 1 (21:28):
Well, one of the biggest things that I learned
was discipline, and that I amand can be and am a very
disciplined person.
Um, and that there's.
If you put a pen to paper, itdoesn't make sense that I was
able to pay my debt off when Iwas able to pay it off.
It doesn't, um, and that comesfrom situations where I would
(21:52):
sell something that I wasn'tanticipating selling and have a
little bit of extra money that Iwas able to put toward the debt
.
Or I would be given a gift ofsome money, like at Christmas or
my birthday, and I would justimmediately put that toward my
debt because I was excited andpassionate about paying it off.
And I think you know throughthat that just it really helped
(22:14):
me to exercise that disciplinemuscle, which helps you to then
realize, if I can do this, thistask that truly seems impossible
, then there's so many otherthings that I can do as well.
That's amazing.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
What advice would you give to someone who maybe just
starting their journey or feelslike they're under a mountain of
debt right now?
Speaker 1 (22:37):
Yeah, stick with it.
Yeah, yeah, you know it doesseem impossible, it does feel
impossible.
Setting those little goalsmakes all of the difference, in
my opinion, to accomplish eachlittle thing.
You know, if you look at themountain, you can't move it
Right.
But if you look at the rock atthe bottom of the mountain and
you move one rock at themountain, you can't move it
(22:57):
Right.
But if you look at the rock atthe bottom of the mountain and
you move one rock at a time,eventually you're going to take
away a chunk of that mountainand eventually move it.
So I think it's reallyimportant to be kind to yourself
as you go through that processof moving things and remind
yourself that the little goalsare just as big of
(23:19):
accomplishments as as the biggerones.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
I love that.
Yeah, one rock at a time.
Now that you are debt free, Iknow you've got some big things
kind of coming up in your lifeand you know, just have been
promoted into this position,director Assistant director.
You just have been promotedinto this position, director
Assistant director.
What are you planning to do,kind of moving forward as far as
, like, what are you?
(23:43):
Do you have more financialgoals or do you have goals
around retirement?
What's next for you in thisrealm?
Speaker 1 (23:47):
I think, whenever you approach your debt, as I did,
your mindset changes also foryour savings, because paying
that debt first was reallyreally important to me and
became exciting for me Right,and it's the same with my
savings.
I've set small goals as wellfor my savings.
(24:08):
In Excel, I actually color codethem so that each one of my
goals is clearly outlined withinmy spreadsheet.
So setting smaller savingsgoals that I have for you know,
whenever I started paying off mydebt, my goal was to have
(24:28):
$1,000 in savings and it feltimpossible.
It really it felt impossible.
It felt impossible to have$1,000 in savings and then
moving from $1,000, I believeand I could be quoting this
wrong, so I apologize DaveRamsey, I think, then says to
set a goal after you've paid offyour debt to save three months
(24:51):
worth of income.
That seemed very big to me, soI set a smaller goal of $2,000
and just continuing to set thosegoals for savings.
My oldest daughter is now asenior in high school and is
planning on going to collegenext year, so that's one of my
goals for her is not just savingfor college, but also looking
(25:16):
for things whenever I'm at thethrift store that she's going to
need, so pots and pans andthings like that.
So those same habits that I hadpreviously I'm carrying on, even
in this time of no debt andbeing able to save and being
able to help others, I thinkthat's a lot to do, yeah, and I
(25:37):
know you do support a lot ofpeople and you also have a
wedding coming up.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
Can we talk about that?
Speaker 1 (25:43):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
That's my favorite subject right now, and those are
not cheap, right?
Speaker 1 (25:48):
No, they're definitely not cheap and you
know, I actually had a momentwell honestly, that brought me
to tears with my mom where Itried really hard to buy a
wedding dress that was veryaffordable.
I tried really hard, y'all.
I tried really, really hard.
(26:08):
I looked on Amazon for awedding dress.
I know all the women that arelistening right now are shaking
their head you must be crazy,but I tried.
I tried looking at severalsecondhand places for dresses.
This when I was married.
Previously I didn't actuallyhave a wedding, so this will be
my first wedding and my firsttime wearing a dress and being
(26:31):
walked down the aisle with mydad and all of that.
So it means an incredibleamount to me walk down the aisle
with my dad and all of that.
So it means an incredibleamount to me.
And also because all of thiseverything we've talked about
previously and even talkingabout my wedding I'm I have two
daughters, I'm an example forthem, and so I want them to see
all of these good things and mywedding dress being a really
(26:54):
important part of that.
And after trying really, reallyhard to find a dress that was
very affordable, I had a callwith my mom where I said I
really think there's this dressthat I absolutely love and it's
pricey.
Uh, it was $1,700 and that's alot, especially for me.
(27:16):
Um, and I had this moment of Ican buy this dress.
I have the money right now in myaccount that I can buy this
dress and having theconversation with my mom of you
know, six years ago, yeah, Icouldn't afford to buy a
(27:38):
secondhand dress at Goodwill.
In some cases I would look,take it off of the rack, look at
it and say, you know, maybenext time and hang it back up
and then, but you, could justpay for that and I could just
pay for that dress Amazing, thatwas honestly one of the biggest
accomplishments that I didn'tanticipate.
(27:59):
That was really really exciting.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
I love that.
I love your story and I lovethat you are helping to support
our ERS participants on so manylevels, and we're willing to
share how you work so hard tobecome debt-free.
I think a lot of times peopledon't know the people behind
this agency, so I'm really,really grateful for the time to
(28:23):
sit down and talk to you aboutthis, and I know that your story
may inspire some other peopleout there.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
Yeah, thank you so much for having me.
Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
Thanks everyone for joining us on today's episode of
the ERS Walk Talk podcast.
I hope you found thisconversation to be insightful
and inspiring.
Financial wellness is such animportant part of our overall
well-being and when we are infinancial stress it impacts us
on many levels.
There are lots of resources tohelp you along the way on your
(28:53):
financial journey.
Check out our show notes.
You can find links to pastwebinars that we've offered on
financial health, withstrategies for budgeting, debt
consolidation all kinds of greatinformation.
Also, you can check out theTexas Saver website.
There are some really greatcalculators.
Website has been updated.
(29:13):
I found that to be reallyuseful.
They also have some pretty coolbudgeting tools and things like
that through texas saver, and Iwill also share the link to the
office of consumer creditcommissioner budgeting resource
that I mentioned during apodcast.
So please, if you like theepisode, share with somebody
that you think might benefitfrom it and subscribe so you'll
(29:35):
get future episodes from us.
Thanks so much and have awonderful rest of your day.
Take care.
I was looking at just over $40,000 in credit card
debt, with minimum paymentstotaling just minimum payments
totaling $700 a month.
I didn't know if I was going tohave enough money to cover all
of my bills and all of thoseminimum payments from that debt
and to cover my mortgage andschool supplies, and basketball
(00:22):
shoes and gas and all of thethings.
So now having the money in mybudget to not only pay that debt
but then to contribute to mysavings and to helping others, I
think you know it's completelychanged my mindset.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Hi and welcome to the ERS Walk Talk podcast, where we
explore stories that inspire,motivate and connect.
Today, we are going behind thescenes at Employees Retirement
System of Texas and you're goingto hear from one of the amazing
people that I get to work withon a regular basis.
I'm thrilled to introduce youto Keri Carver, who is our
Assistant Director of CustomerBenefits at ERS.
(01:04):
Keri has over 16 years ofexperience with the agency.
She started out as a benefitscounselor and her dedication to
our members is unmatched.
I can tell you that no onecares more about our ERS plan
participants and members thanKeri.
In this episode, keri will openup about her personal journey
with paying off over $40,000 incredit card debt as a single mom
(01:26):
with two daughters.
We're going to dive into thestrategies she used to overcome
her own financial challenges andhow she used that experience
and how it transformed hermindset around money and
especially in today's world,where it often feels like we
constantly need more.
I think Carrie's is one ofresilience and empowerment.
She talks about how she wasable to develop a lot of
(01:48):
discipline through herexperience, and I think she
offers some really valuableinsights for anyone looking to
take control over theirfinancial future.
So, without further ado, here'smy conversation with my friend
and colleague, ms Carrie Carver.
Carrie, welcome to the ERS WalkTalk podcast and thank you for
being willing to be a guest onthe show.
(02:08):
Absolutely Happy to be here.
Yeah, I've already introducedyou to our listeners, talked a
little bit about your bio, but Iwas hoping you could just share
with folks a little bit aboutwhat you do here at ERS.
What does your day look likenormally and how long have you
worked here?
Speaker 1 (02:24):
Well, I am the assistant director of benefits
counseling within our customerbenefits division and typically
when someone asks me what I dofor a living, I say I change
lives.
So within customer benefits,you know getting to assist folks
every day with their retirementand insurance benefits, it's
(02:46):
life-changing stuff and I'msuper proud to be a part of that
.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
That's great, and you have really worked your way up
through the ranks at ERS.
How long have you been here?
Speaker 1 (02:58):
A little over 16 years now.
I started out as a benefitscounselor myself.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
You can't see her, but she looks very young, so she
started very young.
I started out as a benefitscounselor myself.
You can't see her, but shelooks very young, so she started
very young I did.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
I started pretty young, Actually.
I remember starting in benefitscounseling and the maximum age
that you could cover a child atthat time was age 25.
At that time was age 25.
And I started with ERS at 24.
(03:31):
Wow, and thought man must benice if your mom or your dad are
still carrying you on yourinsurance, because I'm
definitely covering myself.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Yeah, just jumped out there and started in the real
world.
I've been able to work with youin some projects and I've been
in several meetings with youover the years and you're super
passionate about what you do.
Can you just share with peoplewhat you love about your job and
kind of what keeps you here atERS?
Speaker 1 (03:52):
Yeah, absolutely.
I love helping people.
I love talking about ourretirement.
My very favorite thing iseducating on our retirement
benefits and I think the thingthat keeps me here is, as a
state employee, we're reallypart of a big family and I love
that.
I love that I am part of thisfamily with state employees.
(04:16):
I love the ERS family as anagency and I love the family
that I have even within mydivision of customer benefits,
and I think one of the mostspecial things about ERS as a
state agency that's reallydifferent is that we are our
members.
So I'm a state employee, I'menrolled in the exact same
(04:38):
benefits that I get toadminister and there is so much
passion behind that.
I think whenever you arelooking at benefits and
educating on benefits that youknow impact you as well directly
Like.
the eligibility I'm discussingwith you is the exact same
eligibility that applies to me.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
Yeah, that's great and I know that passion comes
through.
It trickles down to your staff.
Everyone seems to be just sokind and patient through that
customer service aspect of theagency.
So I know you have done a lotof things at ERS, but you also
have another life outside that.
You have family, and that'sreally.
(05:17):
What we're here to talk about.
Today is a little bit aboutyour personal experience with
debt reduction, because lastmonth, as we were chatting, you
were talking about financialwellness and I know this is a
topic that's really near anddear to your heart and I was
hoping that you could share thatstory.
Just talk to our listeners,because I think so many people
(05:39):
do have a lot of financialstruggles and sometimes it seems
overwhelming.
And your story when you weretelling me about it, I was
thinking man, this would be areally great thing to share,
just to inspire people thatmight be feeling that
overwhelmed.
So do you mind sharing withfolks the moment where you
decided you needed to dosomething to change your
(06:01):
financial habits?
Speaker 1 (06:02):
Yeah, absolutely.
So I would say that it startedreally while I was married.
So I was divorced in March of2018.
And prior to my divorce, I knewthat our financial journey was
not a healthy one.
My then husband was havingdifficulty with work and had a
(06:24):
period of time where he didn'thave a job, and as a result of
that, you know you, when you'reliving an entire family on one
income, finances were were tough.
So we used credit cards andthings like that.
Well then, whenever I wasgetting divorced, prior to my
divorce, I didn't realize thatall of those credit cards were
(06:48):
in my name, with my then husbandas an authorized user.
Wow.
So whenever I was gettingdivorced, my attorney notified
me that, really, all of thiscredit card debt would be
transferred to me during thedivorce, transferred to me
(07:08):
during the during the divorce.
So I very quickly realized thatI needed to do something to be
able to just live after mydivorce.
You know, a single mom, um,with a mortgage and all of all
of these debt payments.
So I, uh, I started a plan.
We had previously takenFinancial Peace University, and
one of the things that DaveRamsey says in Financial Peace
(07:31):
University is you know, when thecreditors start calling you.
You say you know you're notabove the line, right?
Everything above the line iseverything you have to pay to
keep a roof over your head, tokeep your car running, to keep
clothes on your back, andanything that falls below the
line just doesn't get paid.
So with that kind of mindset,even before I was divorced, I
(07:54):
contacted every single creditcard company and said I don't
know what you can do for me.
I don't know if there'sanything that you can do for me,
but if there is anything thatcan be done, I would appreciate
it.
And there was actually a coupleof the credit cards that I had.
I had a total of, I believe, ofseven credit cards at that time
even like small.
(08:15):
You know retailer credit cardsup to big like visas, and a
couple of those cards wereactually able to do something
for me.
You never know until you ask.
I think that's a really keypoint, especially when I'm
speaking to friends or familyjust ask, you never know until
you ask.
So once I had spoken to everysingle one of them and kind of
(08:38):
laid out a plan, I was lookingat just over $40,000 in credit
card debt, with minimum paymentstotaling just minimum payments
totaling $700 a month, andyou'll never get it paid off at
that minimum payment right.
Definitely did not feel like Iwould, that is for sure.
Whenever you added my mortgageand these minimum payments, my
(09:03):
regular bills, I had very, verylittle money left within the
month and you have two kids.
I have two daughters, yes, whichI think daughters are
definitely more expensive.
So I had two daughters and lotsof expenses for sure, right, so
I think starting out that planof you know paying everything
(09:27):
that absolutely had to be paidfirst, as state employees, you
know we only get paid once amonth typically, and that
actually helped me quite a bitwith my budgeting.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
That's great.
So you or going through thedivorce and you find out all of
this debt is going to betransferred to you, or you're
going to end up with all of thedebt from the marriage.
And at that point you decidedI'm doing this, I'm coming up
with this plan At some point.
I'm going to guess you probablyhad some challenges in there,
(09:58):
right?
Yeah, definitely.
Along the way can you sharewhat kind of challenges you
might have faced as you weregoing through?
Speaker 1 (10:04):
that For sure, yeah, can you share what kind of
challenges you might have facedas you were going through that?
For sure, yeah, one of mybiggest challenges, I think, was
determining what's truly a wantand what's truly a need.
Right, and really getting downto the root of necessity,
because whenever you have noextra, there is no room for
wants, and one of the thingsthat I did as a result of that
(10:27):
was I started a list of wants,oh, yes, so that whenever there
came a time where I could buildin some of those wants into the
budget, I knew for sure whichones really meant the most to me
, and making that list made ahuge difference, because several
things that I wanted in themoment a month later, two months
(10:50):
later fell off of the list.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
And.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
I no longer even wanted those things.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
Well, I don't want to skip too far ahead in this
story, but it's a happy ending.
It's a very happy ending yes,you end up paying off all your
debt.
How long did it take you to getthere?
Two years, wow.
So you paid off $40,000 ofcredit card debt in two years on
a single income.
Yes, with two kids.
Yes, on a state salary.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
Correct yeah, february of 2020 is when I paid
it off.
That's incredible.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
You should celebrate that Every year Absolutely
Debt-free celebration.
So let's talk about, if youdon't mind, kind of sharing.
I know that you're an Excelguru.
You love spreadsheets Noteverybody loves spreadsheets but
is that how you track?
Like?
What did you do?
How did you keep track?
Speaker 1 (11:36):
You know, I wish I could say that it was cooler
than that, honestly.
But yeah, I really actuallyused Excel to track it.
I tracked it on my budget.
You know, I was raised where westill had the classes when we
were in high school on how to doa check register and I
essentially did a check registerin Excel.
(11:59):
So every single transactionthat I had I would track it and
deduct it from my total amountof money.
You know, one of the thingsthat Dave Ramsey says is give
every dollar a name.
Every dollar has a name.
I had names that I wanted togive to dollars and I did not
have the dollars to give themthe names at times.
(12:19):
But tracking that in Excelhelped a lot, and there's an app
actually on an Apple devicethat is numbers, which is
essentially Excel on your phone.
So I had it on there as welland on my computer and on my
phone, and I would just track itacross both.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
Yes, Wow, that's great.
That is fantastic and as youwere going through and you talk
about, you know giving everydollar a name.
You know two years is a longtime to go.
Go without.
What are things that you feellike you sacrificed during that
time, man?
Speaker 1 (12:57):
for for me and for my kids new, anything new,
anything new, really.
Yep, whenever my oldestdaughter started her basketball
season, she needed a new pair ofbasketball shoes, a pair of
basketball shoes that would fit.
And so I have a sister thatlives in the area that has older
(13:19):
daughters, and so I reached outto my sister and said hey, do
you have any basketball shoesthat are in this size that
you're wanting to get rid of orthat I could buy from?
You Reached out to friends withthe same question, and Goodwill
, thrift stores, all kinds ofthings like that, just to see,
there's also Facebook groupscalled Buy Nothing, and it's
(13:41):
based upon the area that youlived in, and you can actually
request things on those buynothing groups.
They call them wishes, and then, whenever you give something
away, they call them gifts.
So really that that made all ofthe difference in in several
ways.
Um, and basketball shoes.
You know, I told my sister andshe's like I'm sure we can find
(14:03):
something and had them for mydaughter the next day.
Wow.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
That's amazing.
Well, that's a good segue intomy next question.
What kind of support did youreceive from family friends?
Did you ever feel pressured bypeople to spend money to go out
to dinner or things like that,or did you feel like everyone
was pretty much supported?
Did you tell people like thisis what I'm doing?
Speaker 1 (14:24):
Yeah, I'm obviously a pretty open book and I think
that that's really important,especially when you're on a
journey that you're passionateabout, no matter what that
journey is right Financial,mental health, physical health,
any of those things I think it'sreally important to be open
with your network of support.
(14:45):
So for me, I told family andfriends listen, y'all, this
budget is tight, so unless it'san absolute must, I'm not
participating.
And my friends made adjustmentsto have a movie night at
someone's house and my sisterand I we did lots of hiking,
(15:06):
actually, and would do lots oftrips to the thrift store and
that was our you know, funsplurge and I would budget a
certain amount that I wouldpotentially be able to spend and
, honestly, it became a reallyfun challenge of finding things
that I could purchase for mygirls and for myself within that
(15:28):
budget.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
That's great and our listeners can't see us right now
, but Carrie's very stylish andshe's always wearing the cutest
clothes.
She'll be like I got this atthe thrift store and I'm a
thrift store shopper as well, sothat's super fun.
So you talked about the Excelbeing your kind of primary tool.
Are there any other tools orthings that you would recommend
(15:48):
for somebody that maybe wants towork on debt management?
That worked?
That helped you.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
I mean honestly it's not.
It's not necessarily a tool interms of like an app, but goals,
yeah, a hundred percent.
Yeah.
So what I did for myself thatreally really, really really
helped me was I set percentagegoals.
So once I've paid off 5%, I hadjust a box that I would check.
(16:17):
Literally just check the boxand you have no idea how good it
feels to check that 5%, andthen you check that 10%.
I paid off 10% of my debt, wow.
And then you know moving alongwhenever it got up to 75%.
Man, that's a really good day,did you?
Speaker 2 (16:37):
have that posted somewhere, like where you could
see it, or Well, lacey, I had anExcel spreadsheet for it,
actually.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
Actually, actually, let me just show you on my phone
, I literally have an Excelspreadsheet for those goals as
well.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
That's fantastic.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
Just a little box.
I would check it and have ohyes, yeah, that's amazing.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
And for our listeners out there, I will put a link.
There's a really good Excelspreadsheet that is available.
And for our listeners out there, I will put a link.
There's a really good Excelspreadsheet that is available.
I think it's an Excel.
It might be in PDF, but theOffice of Consumer Credit
Commissioner put together afantastic budgeting worksheet
that I think can help to setgoals, because so often we don't
even know where our money'sgoing, and I know that's helped
(17:23):
my husband and I to really sitdown, and we have a budget
meeting once a month where wesit down and go through our
finances and make sure we're ontrack for those goals.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
Yeah, I have a friend actually that came to me and
said hey, I'm a newly single mom, I could really use your help.
And Excel is not her favoritething In fact I would say
probably her least favoritething and she's very big on
planners and she has a plannerthat she uses daily, she carries
(17:54):
with her, she calls it herbrain, and so we built out a
budget for her in her planner.
So I think it's not necessarilyas much about the platform that
you want to use, but using whatyou love already.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
Right.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
I love working in Excel, so it makes sense for me
to use that.
If you're someone that likes tohave things written down, then
do that.
I actually helped anotherfriend with their budget and
their debt was not nearly assizable as mine, and we actually
used Legos.
Oh, and we had a stack of Legoswhere we built a pyramid out of
(18:33):
the Legos of all of the debtthat she was hoping to pay off.
Wow, and each time she paid off$100 of that debt, she would
take a Lego and move it to thepaid off pyramid.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
That's great.
Yeah, I think it's.
It's about it's a visual.
It works for you.
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
And that's the visual of setting the goals is what
really worked well for me versusLegos worked great for her.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
Yeah, Because it's when you stop seeing that, that
forward momentum or thatprogress, it's easy to go back
to our old behaviors which is Ithink what we see in all health,
absolutely.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
Well, and it's tough to see something that is
financial because it's locatedin places that are not tangible,
right?
So you can't see it all day,every day, which I think is part
of the reason why, for me, Igot into debt to begin with,
right, because, out of sight,out of mind, I just swipe your
card and you don't see how muchthat's impacting you, and how
(19:34):
heavy that mountain can become.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
Absolutely.
How has your mindset towardmoney changed over the course of
this journey and becomingdebt-free?
Speaker 1 (19:45):
money changed over this, the course of this journey
and becoming debt-free.
Well, I, as you asked me thatmy first thought is, I actually
ran into a friend and coworkerliterally just last week in the
break room and I said what areyou up to?
And they said paying bills.
And this friend is also asingle mom and I said don't you
love paying bills?
(20:05):
She's like man, I love payingbills Because there was a time
in my life where I didn't knowif I was going to be able to.
Yeah, I didn't know if I wasgoing to have enough money to
cover all of my bills and all ofthose minimum payments from
that debt and to cover mymortgage and school supplies and
(20:26):
basketball shoes and gas andall of the things.
So now, having the money in mybudget to not only pay that debt
but then to contribute to mysavings and to helping others, I
think you know it's completelychanged my mindset because it's
not a I have to pay my bills,it's a I get to pay my bills and
(20:50):
I can Wow, and when you know,you know it's definitely a
freeing feeling, truly.
I I've said many times that Ihad a mountain of debt and.
I genuinely initially thoughtthat it would crush me, but you
know, faith, as small as amustard seed can move mountains.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
That is amazing, and it is an interesting mind shift
to say I'm so grateful I can paybills.
You don't hear people say thatvery often, so I love that.
What did you learn aboutyourself through this process
and how has that affected yourhabits?
Just in general?
Speaker 1 (21:28):
Well, one of the biggest things that I learned
was discipline, and that I amand can be and am a very
disciplined person.
Um, and that there's.
If you put a pen to paper, itdoesn't make sense that I was
able to pay my debt off when Iwas able to pay it off.
It doesn't, um, and that comesfrom situations where I would
(21:52):
sell something that I wasn'tanticipating selling and have a
little bit of extra money that Iwas able to put toward the debt
.
Or I would be given a gift ofsome money, like at Christmas or
my birthday, and I would justimmediately put that toward my
debt because I was excited andpassionate about paying it off.
And I think you know throughthat that just it really helped
(22:14):
me to exercise that disciplinemuscle, which helps you to then
realize, if I can do this, thistask that truly seems impossible
, then there's so many otherthings that I can do as well.
That's amazing.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
What advice would you give to someone who maybe just
starting their journey or feelslike they're under a mountain of
debt right now?
Speaker 1 (22:37):
Yeah, stick with it.
Yeah, yeah, you know it doesseem impossible, it does feel
impossible.
Setting those little goalsmakes all of the difference, in
my opinion, to accomplish eachlittle thing.
You know, if you look at themountain, you can't move it
Right.
But if you look at the rock atthe bottom of the mountain and
you move one rock at themountain, you can't move it
(22:57):
Right.
But if you look at the rock atthe bottom of the mountain and
you move one rock at a time,eventually you're going to take
away a chunk of that mountainand eventually move it.
So I think it's reallyimportant to be kind to yourself
as you go through that processof moving things and remind
yourself that the little goalsare just as big of
(23:19):
accomplishments as as the biggerones.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
I love that.
Yeah, one rock at a time.
Now that you are debt free, Iknow you've got some big things
kind of coming up in your lifeand you know, just have been
promoted into this position,director Assistant director.
You just have been promotedinto this position, director
Assistant director.
What are you planning to do,kind of moving forward as far as
, like, what are you?
(23:43):
Do you have more financialgoals or do you have goals
around retirement?
What's next for you in thisrealm?
Speaker 1 (23:47):
I think, whenever you approach your debt, as I did,
your mindset changes also foryour savings, because paying
that debt first was reallyreally important to me and
became exciting for me Right,and it's the same with my
savings.
I've set small goals as wellfor my savings.
(24:08):
In Excel, I actually color codethem so that each one of my
goals is clearly outlined withinmy spreadsheet.
So setting smaller savingsgoals that I have for you know,
whenever I started paying off mydebt, my goal was to have
(24:28):
$1,000 in savings and it feltimpossible.
It really it felt impossible.
It felt impossible to have$1,000 in savings and then
moving from $1,000, I believeand I could be quoting this
wrong, so I apologize DaveRamsey, I think, then says to
set a goal after you've paid offyour debt to save three months
(24:51):
worth of income.
That seemed very big to me, soI set a smaller goal of $2,000
and just continuing to set thosegoals for savings.
My oldest daughter is now asenior in high school and is
planning on going to collegenext year, so that's one of my
goals for her is not just savingfor college, but also looking
(25:16):
for things whenever I'm at thethrift store that she's going to
need, so pots and pans andthings like that.
So those same habits that I hadpreviously I'm carrying on, even
in this time of no debt andbeing able to save and being
able to help others, I thinkthat's a lot to do, yeah, and I
(25:37):
know you do support a lot ofpeople and you also have a
wedding coming up.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
Can we talk about that?
Speaker 1 (25:43):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
That's my favorite subject right now, and those are
not cheap, right?
Speaker 1 (25:48):
No, they're definitely not cheap and you
know, I actually had a momentwell honestly, that brought me
to tears with my mom where Itried really hard to buy a
wedding dress that was veryaffordable.
I tried really hard, y'all.
I tried really, really hard.
(26:08):
I looked on Amazon for awedding dress.
I know all the women that arelistening right now are shaking
their head you must be crazy,but I tried.
I tried looking at severalsecondhand places for dresses.
This when I was married.
Previously I didn't actuallyhave a wedding, so this will be
my first wedding and my firsttime wearing a dress and being
(26:31):
walked down the aisle with mydad and all of that.
So it means an incredibleamount to me walk down the aisle
with my dad and all of that.
So it means an incredibleamount to me.
And also because all of thiseverything we've talked about
previously and even talkingabout my wedding I'm I have two
daughters, I'm an example forthem, and so I want them to see
all of these good things and mywedding dress being a really
(26:54):
important part of that.
And after trying really, reallyhard to find a dress that was
very affordable, I had a callwith my mom where I said I
really think there's this dressthat I absolutely love and it's
pricey.
Uh, it was $1,700 and that's alot, especially for me.
(27:16):
Um, and I had this moment of Ican buy this dress.
I have the money right now in myaccount that I can buy this
dress and having theconversation with my mom of you
know, six years ago, yeah, Icouldn't afford to buy a
(27:38):
secondhand dress at Goodwill.
In some cases I would look,take it off of the rack, look at
it and say, you know, maybenext time and hang it back up
and then, but you, could justpay for that and I could just
pay for that dress Amazing, thatwas honestly one of the biggest
accomplishments that I didn'tanticipate.
(27:59):
That was really really exciting.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
I love that.
I love your story and I lovethat you are helping to support
our ERS participants on so manylevels, and we're willing to
share how you work so hard tobecome debt-free.
I think a lot of times peopledon't know the people behind
this agency, so I'm really,really grateful for the time to
(28:23):
sit down and talk to you aboutthis, and I know that your story
may inspire some other peopleout there.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
Yeah, thank you so much for having me.
Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
Thanks everyone for joining us on today's episode of
the ERS Walk Talk podcast.
I hope you found thisconversation to be insightful
and inspiring.
Financial wellness is such animportant part of our overall
well-being and when we are infinancial stress it impacts us
on many levels.
There are lots of resources tohelp you along the way on your
(28:53):
financial journey.
Check out our show notes.
You can find links to pastwebinars that we've offered on
financial health, withstrategies for budgeting, debt
consolidation all kinds of greatinformation.
Also, you can check out theTexas Saver website.
There are some really greatcalculators.
Website has been updated.
(29:13):
I found that to be reallyuseful.
They also have some pretty coolbudgeting tools and things like
that through texas saver, and Iwill also share the link to the
office of consumer creditcommissioner budgeting resource
that I mentioned during apodcast.
So please, if you like theepisode, share with somebody
that you think might benefitfrom it and subscribe so you'll
(29:35):
get future episodes from us.
Thanks so much and have awonderful rest of your day.
Take care.
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