May 7, 2025 • 52 mins
Jamie was sick this week, so sorry for the delayed episode release, Burnouts!
We had a an absolute ball talking to one of our favorite writers this week: Taylor Medine. Taylor shares her own journey of overcoming burnout by shedding light on the challenges of freelancing, transitioning to full-time work, and finding balance between career ambitions and personal life.
Once Taylor stops bragging about how great living in Hawaii is, she then opens up about the pressures she's felt as a child of immigrant parents, generational trauma and burnout, and how she manages to carve out time for her family. We also touch on how every generation handles work and life priorities so differently. But in the end, it's all about prioritizing what truly matters (as Taylor reminds us). And honestly? We could use some more of Gen Z's audacity right now. And all the vibes.
You can find Taylor Medine on Tiktok as @taylor.medine
Have a suggestion for our next episode? A burnout story to share? Send us a text!
The Burnout Collective Podcast is hosted by Jamie Young and Rebecca McCracken. We’ve had every ounce of inspiration sucked out by years of startups and hustle culture, and we’re trying to reclaim our creativity. Join us and our guests as we explore how to restart and reenergize our brains. Every Thursday at 5pm PT, we stream live on twitch.tv/TheBurnoutCollective.
Join our Discord community: discord.gg/ZwBjbmVfAF
Follow us on Twitch and Subscribe: twitch.tv/theburnoutcollective
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Music track: Snap Your Fingers by Aylex
Source: https://freetouse.com/music
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
the Gen Z that are coming in thearmy is funny because like,
think about having that mindsetin the army.
Like they still have thatmindset and boot camp too.
They're like, yeah, I don't wantto climb that.
I am Jamie.
And I'm Rebecca.
Welcome to the BurnoutCollective.
(00:22):
Hey guys.
Hello.
Welcome Taylor.
Hi.
Taylor inspired us all to weartank tops to the show today.
would you like to share thestoryteller?
Yeah.
on the topic of burnout andoutside influence, my mom wanted
me to wear a professional shirtwhen I had this tank top on.
(00:45):
I thought this was lovelyenough, but she wanted to iron
and give me a shirt.
But the lovely ladies here toldme that I am my own person.
I am can, I can be anindividual.
I don't have to listen to my momanymore.
So I took the shirt off.
Now I am a free flowingindividual with a tank top and
comfortable.
Sorry, Taylor's mouth.
(01:06):
You heard it here.
You heard it here first.
Marina goes, gotta change.
Be right back.
Perfect.
Perfect.
Yeah.
Welcome to Taylor to episode 22.
We are so grateful to have youand so glad you're able to join
us.
Yeah, I'm so excited to be here.
I love you guys though.
I'm so excited to talk about oneof my favorite topics, burnout,
(01:29):
taking care of yourself when youwanna work yourself into the
ground.
For sure.
Yeah.
we have just a little bit ofhousekeeping before we dive in.
thank you to Alyssa for fillingin for Morgan last week.
It was great to have you.
Morgan will be joining us on May15th, so we are so excited to
have her.
It's, honestly gonna say it,it's our birthday month.
(01:50):
We are trying to get somethingplanned, we're working on it
tentatively 5 29, but we'll see.
We'll let you know.
We'll, and yeah, please follow,listen and rate us, anywhere you
can get your podcast.
And if you haven't already, jointhe Discord.
we have afternoon body doubling,if you want company when you
work, we can look at yourresumes, anything you really
(02:10):
need.
It's just a nice community thatwe're building over there.
So yeah, we'd love to have you.
Yeah.
And for next week, did you saynext week or did I miss it?
Five 15?
I did not say next week.
Oh, so next week we're not gonnahave a show, so there's no show.
Next week, we're gonna becelebrating our birthdays and we
are gonna see each other, whichis gonna be great.
what are you guys doing?
(02:31):
I, Jamie wants to get apedicure.
Oh, okay.
I'm trying to figure out, okay.
Yeah, my partner and I are goingto like.
The Pacific Northwest,'cause hehas friends in Seattle, but
we're also gonna go to Portlandfor like a couple days.
And so we were gonna just likemeet Rebecca and her husband,
out to dinner.
(02:52):
But also I'm like, I kind ofwanna get a mani petty.
'cause we got Mani Petty's atthis place near her and it was
literally like the best placeI've ever been to in my life.
Oh, nice.
They did like, it was my firstlike hot stone massage.
okay.
And I don't know if you've everhad that, but on your feet, in
your calves?
(03:13):
Never.
Oh my God.
It's like, you don't know likehow sore and tired your feet and
legs are until that happens.
So you a long nail girly or ashort nail girly?
I'm a short nail girly.
I don't like, yeah, same.
I mean, girl melt like a teenybit.
So like they have a littleshape, but I can't do the long
(03:35):
nails.
I don't know what to do withmyself.
Yeah.
Either.
Now I just yank myselfaccidentally, constantly, like
I'll do something and then likegouge out skin and it's just
short is better.
I'm like, how do I type angrilyand spitefully?
Like I know right.
Whenever I get long I just,yeah.
I like just cut'em off so I canjust like type like a maniac.
(03:58):
Yes.
Mar Marina says, how do you wipeyour butt with long dagger
nails?
You get a bidet marina.
That's what you do?
Yes, I have.
so you're in Hawaii, Taylor,does Hawaii have bidets?
So Hawaii does not have thedays?
No.
I mean if you go to maybe like afancier hotel, sometimes they
(04:20):
have it.
But it's very.
Like minimalist here.
That's what I love.
That's what I'm scared aboutmoving is that the vibe here is
very laid back and I've falleninto that too.
It's not like hustle and bustle.
one thing I absolutely love isthat when you meet people, it's
not like, Hey, what's your nameand what do you do for a living?
It's like, what do you enjoydoing on the weekend?
Or like, what are you about?
(04:41):
What are your hobbies?
So that's something that Ireally dislike about the
mainland that I'm not lookingforward to.
But yeah, nobody and greatpeople.
That sounds really great.
That was the weirdest question Ihave ever heard you ask is just
Hawaii.
I'm sorry, I just like wasthinking about it, that's all.
Like I didn't think so, but Idon't know.
(05:02):
It's still the United States.
That could be.
I know, but they're becomingpopular in the US Yeah, I was
wondering Yeah, a portable kindthat yet the kind that you
connect to your toilet.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But to me it's like, it's coolto have a bidet, but I feel like
there should be a drying aspectafter.
I'm not sure how it works.
You just use the wet, listen,that's why you need a toto
(05:26):
toilet.
The Japanese toilets that, likethey have songs, they have warm
dryers, they have air.
Okay.
Like blow dryers.
That is my Your cooch.
Yeah, that's my, so when I getenough money, I'm getting a
Japanese toilet.
they light up, they sing.
That's my dream.
That's not terrifying.
Shut up, Jamie.
That's not terrifying.
(05:47):
I didn't say anything.
Listen, I'm all for some of uswanna have a dry coer.
No, that's fine.
I do still, I use less toiletpaper, but I do still like dry a
little bit.
alright, we have to stop talkingabout this now.
I'm done.
No, we have to stop.
We have to stop.
We have to stop.
I think the title of thisepisode should be like, does
(06:08):
Hawaii have bidets?
Have a B day.
It's a great, I love that.
I love that.
Anyway.
No, but yeah, Taylor, we wouldlove to hear what was the
genesis of your burnout and whatbrings you here today?
Yeah, so my backstory, I am afinance writer.
I started writing about finance,back in maybe 2011 or 12 ish
(06:34):
when it was like the height ofthe like personal finance and
blogging era.
And so I was writing just aboutstudent loan, were paying my
student loans, blah, blah, blah.
And I absolutely hated my job.
So I decided I was gonna try tomake it as this blogger.
And so I quit my job and Iwanted to make money for my
blog.
That wasn't happening rightaway.
I had no patience.
So I started freelance writing.
(06:56):
I think my first gig of thefreelance writer it was writing
about Kim Kardashian and KanyeWest, like a gossip blog.
And I think I made like$25 for afew articles.
Yes.
but I saw money and I was like,I'm gonna do this.
so that is the beginning of along story.
I was freelancing for almostlike maybe nine-ish years.
but the money started gettingreally, really good and I had a
(07:21):
lot of like, credibility in thespace.
So I was getting a lot of work,but, and burnout happened when I
was just like taking out, takingon so many assignments because I
wanted to meet income goals andI wanted to be this business
person that I envisioned in myhead.
And yeah, that's when I burntout.
I had to pretty much give up thebusiness.
Yeah.
So you started looking for afull-time gig, or did you take a
(07:42):
break in between?
Yeah, no, I took, let me see, IThe break was, I was forced to
do a break'cause because a lotof my contracts ended or clients
like could no longer needed mefor work.
And me and my husband were juston the same page in the fact
that I didn't really need toreplace that income.
(08:03):
So I just started winding downand decided maybe it was a good
idea for me to go into afull-time job where I didn't
have to always think about wherethe next dollar was gonna come
in.
Or like think about getting moreclients or like the benefit of
being a freelancer is thatthere's unlimited income.
You can make as much as you wantbecause you can work as much as
you want.
But that's also like thedownside.
(08:23):
You can always be working atnight on the weekends.
yeah, because it's made moresense at the time in our lives
for me to get a full-time job.
And I've liked it ever since.
And that's like we talked aboutearlier, how when you're
freelancing, like you nevernecessarily know like where your
next paycheck is coming from.
(08:43):
Yeah.
Or like when a client's gonnadrop you or not have as much to
give you as like normally theydo.
So that kind of fixes thatproblem too a little bit.
Makes it look a little moreattractive for a full-time gig,
I guess.
Yeah.
So I, when I had startedwriting, it was really sexy and
(09:03):
cool to be like a digital nomadand like a blogger or a
freelancer.
And I just created this idea,like once I, I tell people
sometimes that instead of likequitting my job and decided to,
deciding to go a whole differentpath, I could have benefited
from therapy at the time becausereally I was trying to fix, is
(09:24):
that an odd thing to say?
I was like, I needed help, but Ithink I was trying to.
Fix something in myself.
because I envisioned, like, if Imade this money, if I have my
own business and if I'm able tobuild this cloud for myself, I
will feel happy.
And it got to the point where Idid those things.
I made the income and I got towhere I wanted to be, and there
was still something not there.
(09:47):
so I just had to, I had to dialit back and figure out what my
values are, what I wanted.
And it was not to work myselfinto the ground constantly.
And thank God.
Yeah.
Thank God for that.
That's actually, I think we bothmet Taylor, when she was
freelancing.
And when we reached out to herfor the show, I was like, I told
(10:07):
Rebecca, I was like, oh, weshould reach out to Taylor.
Like Taylor would be great onthis show.
And we hadn't ever gotten tolike, talk to her like this and
meet her virtually.
It was just, Thanks for theassignment.
Yeah.
Like, you're awesome.
But I told her she was likealways one of our favorite
freelancers because she wasjust, yes, you work very hard
and you do really great work.
(10:27):
we were so excited to see you.
It was so good to hear.
Yeah.
Oh, you really do.
Yeah.
Really do you also mentionedthat like you were, was it in
Germany when you werefreelancing too?
So like you were having to like,go through the stress of setting
up all the other stuff from thatside of the world without any
help?
So I am a military spouse.
so we move every three years.
(10:50):
So our first tour together, Idon't know if they call.
Okay.
So I'm a military spouse, butalso I have joined the, this
whole thing as a military spouselater in my husband's game.
So like, a lot of militaryspouses are indoctrinated into
like the life.
So they know all the terminologyand stuff.
I don't, so I don't know ifgoing to Germany was a tour or
(11:11):
like a move.
I don't know.
So if you, I like tour.
It sounds fancy.
We're on our tour.
Yeah.
If anyone listening to this islike, she doesn't know what
she's talking about.
I don't.
But we were in Germany and wewere, our entire family was
there.
And it was cool because when Iwas freelancing, of course I
could take my career with us anda lot of military officers
aren't really able to workbecause they moved so much.
(11:33):
but when I was in Germany, Ialso had to set up a German
business because the German taxauthority will like find you and
it will not be good if you don'tpay German taxes.
I had to get a Germanaccountant.
one year I paid 30,000 euro intaxes.
I cried because I know because,and I, at the time, after I paid
(11:57):
taxes, I was like.
My husband Tom, I, why am I evenworking?
I'm just working to give all ofmy money to Germany.
But, so yeah, that's how itworked.
And then after that, fortunatelywe left and here we have a lot
of tax breaks if you're like asolopreneur, but there, we
didn't qualify for some of thosetax breaks because we didn't
like use their healthcare and wedidn't have like a retirement
(12:19):
plan.
Like, here you can contribute toa retirement plan and reduce
your tax liability, not there.
So that was a hurdle.
But overall, we love thatexperience living in another
country.
Not many people get to do that.
did you learn a lot of Germanwhen you were there?
No, not a lot because, no.
So Covid, so we had a German, atutor, like a language tutor,
(12:42):
and then Covid happened and wedidn't go anywhere to practice
it.
So we couldn't talk to anybody.
so that was like one year of ourlife there.
So after that, and then when wewould try to use German, they
were just like, don't it justbecause they know English.
So when we're like struggling tosay something, they're just
like, please don't.
Nine.
Yeah.
Yeah.
No.
(13:05):
Wow.
Those warm fuzzy drummonds.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It was cool.
We're now stationed in Hawaiiand then we're moving back in,
in a few months to Maryland onthe East coast.
Oh, wow.
I didn't realize it was thatsoon.
Your daughter?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Nice.
(13:25):
I'm a little scared.
Excited but scared.
I hope it's gonna be a greatmove for you guys.
And are you gonna be closer tofamily then?
Yeah, much closer.
Okay, cool.
All of our family is on the EastCoast, so yeah, we'll be a lot
closer to that.
Very nice.
Awesome.
(13:45):
yeah, I'm really interested too,like one of the things you
talked about, one of the gen,like one of the other ways that
you started getting on aburnout, and we don't have to go
into it, but you mentioned likeyou had a health scare and so it
was this wake up call that like,oh, none of this is important
and like, this is what'simportant.
Yeah.
And it was like a slap in theface.
Yeah.
So I had the epiphany aboutburnout in between Germany and
(14:09):
Hawaii when I made my incomegoals and I.
I was just realizing that I wasstill unhappy when I was doing
all the things I set out to do.
And so I took a major step backand just realized that the
things that I were working onwas just, it was driving me.
The stress level was just likenot sleeping at night, not being
(14:30):
present with my daughter, myhusband, it was not working.
so I took that step back.
Then at the beginning of theyear, we, had a baby, but after
we had, first of all, it was anemergency C-section.
and after that I got postpartumpreeclampsia, which the people
who've never had, a baby before.
It's basically this illnesswhere you have a baby and or
(14:50):
even before you have the baby,your blood pressure just goes
uncontrollably high and theyhave to try to figure out how to
break it down.
And then sometimes it's veryhard to find the cocktail of
medicine that can.
and so during that, you're atrisk of heart attack, stroke,
seizure.
so your blood pressure'ssupposed to be one 20 over 80.
Mine was maybe 180 over like one10.
(15:12):
Yeah.
So it, it was just, wow.
Yeah, it was incredibly scary.
And it was like, it over severalweeks, I had to just keep going
into the emergency room and.
It was the first time I've everhad a brush with like a health
scare because I am 36.
I feel like that's relativelyyoung.
I've never had to worry aboutanything like that.
(15:32):
So it was being in an ICU andrealizing, wait, I'm not
thinking about the work that Iwas doing.
I'm not thinking about how muchmoney I was gonna make or how
much money I had in the bank.
I'm actually thinking about thetime that I would be missing
with my kids or my husband.
So I think that just like I madethe decision, Hey, I'm gonna
(15:52):
step back.
I'm not gonna allow myself toconstantly say yes to things
about a year ago, a little bitmore.
But that situation just dementedthe fact that what matters, like
what matters to me, it mattersthat my family knows that I'm a
good person, that I'm caring,that I showed up for them.
I don't want to be remembered assomeone who's just constantly
(16:13):
working, which is what I feellike my daughter kind of
thinking sometimes at that time.
That's Not what.
I wanna leave this earth.
Mommy was always in her office.
Yeah.
And then she had my brother andshe died, and all I remember is
her working on the computer now.
so yeah, it's very, it's amorbid thought and I don't want
to, I don't want it to, I don'twant to bring it down.
(16:35):
because I look at it and laughnow, like, that was a crazy
time.
I can't believe that happened tome.
Like, that's a crazy story I'mgonna tell 10 years from now.
But it's really like, put thingsinto perspective.
It's great to create things, butalso don't create your own
health.
But I try to tell myself like,don't do something only to
(16:55):
realize that later on it doesn'teven fulfill you.
Like you keep moving in thisdirection because you think you
should, but at the end of theday, you end up being miserable
because of it.
So it's okay to let things go.
When my daughter was little, shewould be like, are you guys done
paying the house off yet?
'cause we told her, she waslike, why do you guys work so
much?
And I was like, oh, so we canpay the house off.
(17:16):
And she's like, every week she'slike, are you done paying the
house off?
Oh, that's so cute.
Yeah.
and so sad.
I know.
Does she still ask?
I feel you.
That's a really good pointthough.
Like, you don't want yourdaughter to be like, all my mom
does was work, and then she'sgone.
And it's like, that's a supersobering thought.
I haven't thought about it likethat, but yeah, that's a hundred
(17:36):
percent accurate.
You don't want that.
yeah, not at all.
So we, so after, I'm notperfect.
I was telling you earlier that,today I took a day off from
work.
but I filled up the entire daywith stuff, so I'm like still
working on, because burnout, Ithink it, it relates to work, of
course, but then it relates toall areas of your life, like
(17:57):
taking appointments all thetime.
So today I booked therapy, whichis great.
Of course, I love going totherapy, but I also booked like
other social engagements and allthese things I took off the day
specifically for this.
So yeah, it's a constantstruggle, but it's always going
back to like, what am I feeling?
And in the case of me, since Ihave a family, like what are I,
(18:17):
what's my family feeling and doI need to reevaluate?
Yeah.
if you're comfortable gettinginto this is something that
Jamie and I haven't really hadexperience with, but it was
really fascinating.
So we've talked about likegenerational trauma, and
breaking those cycles.
But one of the things youbrought up when we were talking
the other night was,generational burnout and how.
Like as a kid of immigrants,that's something that you are
(18:39):
currently working on breakingthe cycle.
And we would love to hear moreabout that.
'cause I think a lot of us arereally unfamiliar with it and it
really is, I think not talkedabout enough.
yeah, sure.
So my family, my mom and dad arefrom Jamaican Trinidad.
so they immigrated to the US andthey did a lot to, they
(18:59):
sacrificed a lot to get us in afinancial position where they
could pay a lot of our college,like for me and my brother.
we still had some loans, butthey did a lot for us.
so as a first generationAmerican, it's on your shoulders
to really, do as good or betterthan the family who brought you
(19:20):
here, basically just as likepaying respect to them almost.
so that was a heavy burden on myshoulders because I don't feel
like I fit the mold of, Typical.
Like I didn't wanna be a doctor,I didn't really wanna be a
lawyer, I didn't wanna be anengineer.
I didn't wanna be all thosethings that an immigrant parent
wants you to be.
So I think that was one, one ofthe reasons I burnt out when I
(19:42):
was a writer.
Because if you tell a parent,any parent, which was an
immigrant parent, that you wantto leave your job to be a
writer, that's just, it's like,what the hell?
that, that always weighedheavily on me, and I think that
was one reason why I put so mucheffort into a lot of the things
I did because I wanted to showthem like, Hey, I'm not in a
(20:07):
conventional career path.
I can still be successful.
So that's something that I thinkmaybe in my.
Late twenties, I got lesspressure from them.
I think they realized, hey,Taylor has to live her life.
She's gonna do what she wantedto do.
But then it was kind of pressureI was putting on myself to prove
that I made the right move.
(20:28):
And so in leaving my freelancecareer and like changing my
perspective, that was one of thethings I had to do.
I had to tell myself that it'sokay to let a lot of that go.
Was it seen like you not, is itseen as like disrespectful to
what they sacrificed and all thework to get you where they are?
Or was it they just didn't wantyou to have to like sacrifice
and struggle so much and likethey were just worried about
(20:50):
like you being successful?
I think at first it might havebeen the first, not
disrespectful, but.
More like, did you see what wesacrificed to get you here?
Yeah.
Like, are you sure that's goingto take you where you think it's
going to go?
and I think the change in themwas, you know what, this is her
(21:10):
journey now.
So yes, we did X, Y, and Z, butshe is free to do what she needs
to do, also like not a freshlyironed shirt over the tank top.
She really does.
Yeah.
But I feel like as everyone cansee the growth, it's still
happening.
Because I wore, my mother waslike, you need to wear a shirt.
And I wore the shirt.
So we should see.
(21:31):
But you reached out for help.
We heard your call.
I reached, I did.
I did though.
I'm still like, I'm stillworking on it.
Old habits die hard, What didyour parents do?
Did they work, like, did theywork mostly outta the house when
you were growing up?
Or was your mom, did she stay athome?
No.
So my.
And it's funny'cause in someways I'm recreating if you learn
(21:54):
this a lot in therapy sometimes,like you recreate your past.
Yeah.
So my dad was in the Air Force,he was in the Air Force for I
believe, 30 ish years, but he,there's like eight ranks in, the
Air Force and he made it all theway to the top.
that was, yeah, he did reallywell in his career.
And then my mom was, apharmaceutical sales person.
(22:17):
And have you seen like, love andother drugs one that movie?
Like she she did that.
and she did really well in hercareer too, yeah.
And so my dad was not, he wastraveling a lot because he like
actually worked on planes andflew around and my mom was the
one who took care of us a lot,but she was often working.
So sometimes I feel like it's,that same kind of habit has.
(22:42):
Kind of happening with me.
And so that's why I had to takea step back.
And she lives with us right nowwhile she's helping me take care
of our young baby.
So we've actually had a lot ofreally in-depth conversations
about me doing the same thingsthat she does and things that
she wished maybe she didn't do,and what I could change, for our
daughter as well.
(23:02):
So that's really lovely thatshe's at least like willing to
talk to you about it too andchange her.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Mindset, which is big.
I like, one of the things inlike just the black community in
general is that things aren'tnecessarily talked about.
And so it is really a big thingthat she's willing to have some
of these conversations becauseit's usually like things don't
(23:23):
get talked about.
Like money is one thing andfeelings is another thing.
And so it is really big thatshe's willing to talk about like
our history and like our future.
Yeah.
No, that's really great.
And it's also refreshing you're,and plus for a parent Your
daughter's seeing that in realtime too.
Like, she's seeing thatconversation happening and like
(23:44):
that communication happeningtoo.
Yes.
Yeah.
It's really awesome.
me and my daughter are verycommunicative.
we talked about this a littlebit before.
I'm balancing how I want toparent her with how I've been
brought up.
Because like in the case oflike, when I was brought up, it
was, you have to go upstairs andlearn your timetables before you
can come downstairs.
Like, it was very like, study,do this.
(24:05):
And so for me, I'm really like,okay, let's do your homework.
If it's good.
If it's not.
But I'm trying to balance, Idon't want her to be like a
failing student, but I alsodon't want to pressure her into
this horribly anxious student.
yeah.
Yeah.
It's a learning experience.
Do you set up, like do you, haveyou set rules for yourself of
like, okay, I'm done working atthis time?
Or like, do you set times apartto like, spend times with the
(24:27):
kids on your own?
Or like how do you carve outthat time for yourself and for
your kids?
Yeah, for sure.
So since I work nine to fivenow, that's basically it.
Nine to five.
I don't try to work over, ifanything, I'll work during my
lunch or maybe lately I've beenworking a little bit earlier
during the day my son wakes upat six anyway, and since I'm on
(24:48):
Hawaii time, it just worksbetter.
yeah, evenings are family time.
It's really, yeah, it's that italways feels so good to like
start setting boundaries andstart saying no.
it's so hard to do, but I knowin my life when I started saying
no to people and no to things,like my mental health was so
(25:09):
much better.
Oh yeah.
A hundred percent, but also, Idon't think so.
We talk a lot about saying no.
just I feel like that's a hotthing and I do it.
You're doing, we're learning it,but I don't think we talk enough
about the response that you'regonna get also from people
because it's not alwayspositive.
Very true.
Like I had, when I was afreelance, I had situations
(25:31):
where I was doing some work forpeople that I don't think I was
being paid enough.
Like I, sometimes I was workingon weekends, like I remember my
husband, but before we gotmarried, he booked this, like,
this Poconos trip away, and wewere supposed to like, have a
little fun in the cabin and Iwas working.
And then I remember that theperson I was working for wasn't
(25:52):
really paying me that well for amonth of work, and I thought we
were pretty close.
and I ended up like justconfronting it, being like,
yeah, I would like be paid X.
Like I don't think this isworking out.
And the response like, wasn'tgreat.
So I feel like sometimes wethink that, we're gonna say no
and it's gonna be like the sun,like the clouds are gonna open.
(26:13):
The sun's just gonna flow downand like everything's gonna be
right in the world.
But there is gonna be pushbackand it is gonna feel
uncomfortable.
So yeah.
I dunno if you've experiencedthat.
Oh yeah.
'cause then how are theysupposed to exploit you and get
you to work for free?
Taylor?
Like yes and no.
Mm-hmm.
Hate.
Yeah.
It's tough when you saidboundaries, it's not always
gonna be pleasant.
(26:33):
Patriarchy's worth it andconsumerism.
That's what it's about.
Exactly.
That's what it's about.
and you said your husband'slearning alongside you too.
'cause you said he's also likefirst gen and so like you guys
are learning this together andgoing through that together.
So like to have that kind ofsupport too, and you're not just
on your own.
That's also gotta be really nicebecause that probably helps you
keep those boundaries in place.
(26:54):
Yes, exactly.
He's helped me so much.
so we've known each other for avery long time.
We met when we were like six orseven, and we've like, were
together.
actually no, we hated eachother.
Came together, left together.
And so we know a lot about eachother.
and so since he is first GenKorean, and so my parents are
(27:18):
from the Caribbean, his mom isfrom Korea, but there's some
similarities in just like thevery strict kind of nature like
you do in Korea.
Like you're a doctor, you'rethis.
so it's very similar in thatway.
so even him going to the armywas like a stretch because
that's not something that hismom has really like seen before
in their family.
but yeah, I think to justify hiscareer choices and just to like,
(27:43):
make himself feel like he's alsoachieving, he's worked his ass
off.
Yeah.
in his career and devote, likehe's been to Iraq multiple
times, he's been a drillsergeant.
He's taken on all thesedifferent roles that just to
keep moving up.
And so we both at the same time,were just like, we can't do
this.
Like, his body is literallyliter, like me mentally break it
(28:04):
down.
His body is because it's a veryphysical job.
So yeah.
We're both always trying toencourage each other, just like
let it go.
Like the Army is still gonna bethe army if you don't give a
hundred percent.
And just like we were talkingabout before, his like 75% is
someone's like 150%.
Yes.
Like give 75.
but yeah, it's, we're trying tojust separate our self-worth
(28:27):
from what we do because we'repeople outside of this.
Yeah.
Was just gonna say, which is sohard to do, like, it's just like
mm-hmm.
Like, I mean, even talking abouthow Rebecca was talking about
how m used to be, like, did youpay off the mortgage yet?
It's like even like at a youngage.
Yeah.
I think like we start out bybeing like, oh, we gotta work.
We gotta work.
We gotta make money.
(28:48):
Yeah.
Yeah.
and we just like go throughthese phases of life and these
like, different decades of ourlife.
And I think a lot of us don'trealize what you realized until
we're in like our thirties orforties.
Yeah, exactly.
And that's why I don't, I knowpeople like, just don't like
aging, but I've found that mytwenties, like were the worst
(29:08):
time in my life.
I don't know why people likethe, I feel like, gen Z I'm not
Gen Z, so I don't know whatgeneration you guys are in, but,
millennials, they we'regeriatric millennials, I think I
am too, so No worries.
they romanticized this youththing and I just, I feel like
between 24 and 30, like thingswere hell, I didn't know what
(29:29):
the hell I was doing.
I was very, I don't know.
And so I just, the awakening inmy thirties, going through like
literal hell, and coming back,it's just, yeah.
I just enjoy it so much morethan being, I'll take this over
being young any day.
Yeah.
You said something really lovelyabout like, not letting yourself
(29:50):
be defined by your work, butlike letting yourself be defined
by the people you love and thepeople who love you.
Yeah.
that's really nice.
That's a major thing.
Or just like activities.
I've, I realized that, coming upin the two thou, I don't know,
did you guys blog at all?
I know that you guys haven'tfreelance, but did you, do you
blog?
Yes.
Did you do like financevlogging?
(30:10):
No, I did lifestyle blogging.
I did like all the free swag andall that shit in like the early
two thousands.
So I, so you're with me here.
It almost, that was a hobby,Like, and then it turned into
like, monetization was yourhobby.
Yeah.
So I realized that I don't haveany hobby that's like, not
related to money.
So that's something I'm tryingto find, myself in like, I've
(30:34):
started painting.
nice.
Like hanging out with friends.
I don't know, just findingthings other than work, because
in, in a lot of respects, youcan't, we talked a little bit
about this before, like yourskill will help you move up, but
sometimes it has nothing to dowith skill.
It's who, you know, whatrelationships you've made,
whether they like you, whetherthey don't like you.
And my husband has been tellingme like, if you base yourself
(30:58):
off of some things that youdon't have control over, that's
like really a negative place tobe in, and that can be super
harmful.
So I'm trying not to, yeah.
100%.
Yeah, 100%.
So I still think it's importantto set goals.
I don't want anyone to thinkthat I'm now just like a
slacker.
I've decided I don't wanna workhard, but I just, I just don't
(31:19):
want to be wrapped, wrapped upall the way in it.
It's something I do, but it'snot who I am.
No.
And morbidly we'll be dead atsome point anyway.
And I would rather spend it notwrapping myself up in my job.
And that's something we're stilllearning, but that, that really
hits home just like it's allgonna end anyway.
You might as well just spend itwith people who you like and
(31:40):
doing what you wanna do.
I was thinking of, you weresaying how like, coming from
immigrant parents and thenyou're like, I'm gonna be a
writer.
I'm quitting my job and I'mgonna be a writer.
Like, that's kind of what myfriend did who also has
immigrant parents and was like,I'm gonna be a standup comedian.
So I feel like how know?
Yeah.
(32:00):
Yeah.
and she or she, or he's stilldoing standup?
Yes.
Comedy actually.
Yeah.
Oh, that's cool.
And he's great, but like, yeah.
At least you weren't like, I'mgonna do standup.
I'm gonna be a funny man, mom,like, no.
Yeah, I don't know.
it's hard to have thoseconversations, so I commend your
(32:22):
friend.
Like, it's not, it's not easy.
Like the, we're always,everything we see online is
like, follow your dream, followyour passion.
But it's not always that easy.
Was there like, like pressure,was there pressure from your
parents to kind of like meet astandard of who they think like
a model immigrant should be?
(32:42):
Is that like what it was?
Was it just like, we need tolike put our best foot forward?
Or was it just like, we justneed you to work hard?
Yeah, I think it wasn't being amodel immigrant, it was just
mostly work hard, like work hardbe something.
also, I think there's anelement, and maybe it's all
families.
I don't know if this is just animmigrant family, but you wanna
(33:02):
be able to like what your kidsdo as an extension of you.
So being able to say, Hey,they're doing this, or like in
conversation, like I guesslooking back at it.
I can see where they're comingfrom.
Because if family members areasking like, Hey, what such and
what's Taylor up to?
And they can't explain it, it'skind and they're like, oh, she
(33:23):
just quit her job and she'sgonna be a writer.
Right.
She gets on the internet Yeah.
About money when they can writeon the internet with that tone.
But she doesn't have any, solike we don't know what's going
on.
Like, yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
And I think the assumption isthat like, writers are broke, so
like, is she, or also theassumption is that writers write
(33:47):
novels, you know, like that typeof thing.
Like there's just, there's justa question like what exactly is
she writing?
Yeah, very true.
So it was also, it was aneducation aspect of my part as
well to show them, like to showthem in their terms what I do.
Yeah.
yeah, it is always funny to hearyour parents like ex try to
(34:08):
explain what you do to somebodyelse, I think.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Marina said, is trophy wife apassion?
That's what I want.
Who?
Hi Rob.
Welcome in.
That'd be a good one.
Yes.
That is a passion of mine forsomeday.
I love that.
Yeah.
There's a meme going around withjust like pictures of fucking
Anna Nicole Smith and a Heidifrom, the Playboy bunnies, and
(34:32):
it's just like, this is how muchI don't wanna work anymore.
I'm really enjoying the movementtowards, and I had mentioned
this also before to you guysthat, there's just been like a
shift in the culture becausewhen, I graduated college, the
culture was hustle, hustle,hustle.
Do whatever you have to do tomake money, any means necessary.
(34:53):
And I actually commend Gen Z fortaking in another approach,
which is.
Work and just do what I have todo at a regular job and then
live life.
So I feel like there's a placein the middle, but I actually do
like their take on it.
Yeah.
They are wonderful, but also sofucking frustrating to manage
(35:14):
because it's like, I know.
It's a balancing act though.
Yeah.
You can't do absolutely nothing.
Yeah.
Especially remote working.
Yeah.
I can imagine.
They're like, have you seen I'm,I don't understand why they've
been going on TikTok and givingremote work a bad name by saying
that they're like at the poolduring working hours when
they're supposed to be doingstuff.
(35:34):
And so now every company thinksthat we are not doing anything
because they're not doinganything that I can't get
behind.
Yeah.
Right.
But also having to unlearn thatbad habits that like have been
ingrained to you for almost 20years of working now..
So job hopping used to be reallybad.
that used to be considered bad.
And I worked for a lot ofstartups and so like, they would
either crash out or lose moneyand I would be like, accused of
(35:57):
job hopping, but like nowthey're like, fuck it, they
didn't pay me, or I didn't likeworking there.
It was a tox environment.
I'm gone.
And they do not care.
They will leave, they won't givetwo weeks.
They're just like gone.
And I'm like, that's, I respectthat.
Like they just don't put up withthat shit.
Also.
That's how, like, you get moremoney nowadays.
Because a lot of companies likearen't giving you raises or
(36:18):
they're just giving you, likethe, like here's like the 1%
raise once a year.
Or whatever.
but that's not enough.
Like, I don't know, dunno ifyou've seen the economy, but
like that's not, that's notgonna cut it.
I feel like people only reallysay it anywhere for a year or
two now.
Like that's, That's the norm.
I've been at my job for twoyears and four months, and
(36:39):
that's the longest I've everbeen anywhere.
And it's crazy.
Yeah.
So you're a veteran.
I know.
I'm, I've been here for year,that's how I feel.
It's like years and years, butit's been two, which like, let's
be honest, it's not that long,but it just feels like for
forever.
'cause I would've had anotherjob by now.
yeah.
So yeah, staying in place is,it's really, I don't know, it's
(37:02):
just really different.
and I think our, yeah.
What else?
I haven't, sorry.
I was just gonna say, I thinklike our parents have a, oh,
sorry.
I think our parents have aharder time too with that
because like, I've had myparents, or like friends'
parents have been like, oh, youcan't keep job hopping.
No, you've only been at thiscompany now for a year and a
half.
Like, you can't leave yet.
(37:23):
And it's like, but they're notpaying me what I'm worth and
they're not treating me and I'mburnt out.
And.
This isn't working out for me.
Like everybody at work's anasshole, but they're like, no,
you must stay.
You have to be there for Xamount of years.
But yeah, that's what you donow.
So go ahead Taylor.
I'm sorry.
(37:44):
I'm, that's a relief to mebecause when I started my
career, I was at a job that Ireally did not like.
And looking back, I felt, itfelt like an eternity that I was
there.
I was only there for like sixmonths, but it felt so long.
And I think the reason that itfelt so long is because I just
had that in the back of my mind.
(38:04):
Like I was still very in thattraditional timeline.
So it was like, you have to stayno matter what.
Like, and it just felt like Iwas trapped, that I was locked
in.
And so I'm just, I'm so gladthat I ended up leaving that job
and now I have this, it.
It's not a problem to be leavinganywhere anymore because,
there's so many reasons that youcould leave within six months or
(38:26):
a year, like maybe you got abetter job.
Like that doesn't mean you'reflighty.
If you're doing what's best foryou, are you supposed to stay
somewhere that pays you less?
They don't give a fuck aboutyou.
They don't give a fuck aboutyou.
If you die tomorrow, they wouldreplace you like that.
You don't owe them anything.
And they like,'cause theyclearly owe you nothing.
No loyalty, just a member.
That's, I think the thing aboutWelcome and Pat, gen Z has been
(38:47):
like, they understand that thereis no loyalty and they are not
loyal.
And that's like a whole, like,they're not grateful to this
company for, they're not, theydon't act like they're grateful.
They act like the company shouldbe grateful they're there.
And again, that's a wholedifferent mindset.
And I'm like, yeah, yes, theyshould be.
I don't know, it's just, it'sthey're very empowered and I,
yeah, I don't know.
(39:09):
I've never, I've heard of that.
I've never worked with, I onlyworked with one, I've only
worked with one Gen Z before.
but yeah, I've never managedone, so I don't know what the.
What would it be like to dothat?
I don't know if it'd bechallenging or, I think it's
fun.
anecdotally, my husband, the GenZ that are coming in the army is
funny because like, think abouthaving that mindset in the army.
(39:30):
Like they still have thatmindset and boot camp too.
They're like, yeah, I don't wantto climb that.
He, yeah, he has a get, get yourhusband in here.
We need to hear some of thesestories.
I'm just kidding.
That's so good.
We have to, and he's, the thingis, he's hilarious.
but he will go in to, it's justlike, it's funny, this type of
(39:53):
stuff he does.
'cause now we're like the oldpeople, like the army is a young
man's game, so they're like all18 and he's 36, so he's like the
geriatric person there.
So he'll like sing like.
HEPA songs or like, just likeSierra songs and they're just
like, what is that?
Like?
We don't know what that is.
That is an oldie, the oldies.
They're the oldies.
You hilarious.
(40:16):
It's hilarious.
Yeah.
Ndi even, even in the Army,they're not trying to do
anything.
So that's very funny.
'cause the army will kick theshit out of you and what I've
heard, but know that, but theycan't really anymore.
Like they have, oh my god.
Can you imagine a Gen Z Marine?
Like a Gen Z Marine?
Can you even imagine?
Right, right.
I cannot.
(40:38):
it's funny.
It's funny.
Our military.
Yeah, it's funny.
Our military, oh shit.
They're very brazen.
I don't know if that's the rightword, but they're just, yeah,
they're their own advocates,which is Admirable.
Very much I think we can learnfrom the youth.
Jen Alpha too is coming upbehind, because I don't know if
(41:00):
I've told the story here.
I know I've told you guys, mydaughter sent her math teacher
an email being like.
Listen, I don't really have timefor math right now.
I'm too busy focusing on myother interests, which are art.
I'm sure I'll fail, buthopefully this doesn't get me
left behind.
And then she ended up Thanks forunderstanding.
I love that.
I love that.
You know what we need, like Idon't have time for this.
We need more audacity.
(41:22):
We really do.
Yes, we really do.
We really do.
Yeah.
I'm trying to be more audaciousin everything.
Just telling your boss, I don'treally have time for this right
now and focusing on my otherentrance.
Yeah.
I don't know if I'll ever getthere, but I'll try to get
there.
no.
Yeah.
I don't know if I'll ever getthere.
(41:42):
So your daughter's very brave.
We could all use that.
We could all use that.
Yeah.
Saying no is a big thing in theworkplace.
Like saying no, I can't do thathas been a new thing as well.
Being like actually in thatcapacity and I cannot do that,
has been totally new and it'sstill so hard to do, like.
Yes.
(42:03):
Ugh.
I think especially with the jobmarket as it is right now, you
don't, you feel like you don'twanna do anything that could rub
anyone the wrong way becausethere's so many unknowns.
Like, could I be next on thechopping block or, yeah, I just,
it's just laying under theradar, not wanting to cause any
problem.
Especially in a specializedindustry where it's very small
like ours where it's just likethere are plenty of people
(42:25):
waiting for your fucking job inthe wing.
So you don't wanna make waves.
You don't want me to notice you.
It's very scary.
Sorry.
By the wave for all the nose.
Boy, it is allergy season and Iam like trying to calm my eyes.
We're over here like dying.
(42:45):
Taylor's like I'm in Hawaii.
Yeah.
I don't know.
There's a lot of polleneverywhere, but I don't, maybe
I'm just like not allergic tothe pollen here.
I haven't had a problem sinceI've been here.
Yeah.
Are you gonna miss it a littlebit though?
Like, I gotta say going to theeast coast versus Hawaii.
Yeah, I, it's really tough'causeI wanna be close to family.
(43:08):
I feel like we're missing out ona lot of like the family
holidays and that sort of thing.
Sure.
But I love Hawaii.
Like this is one of the bestplaces in the world to me.
Like it's very healing.
Like I've had traumatic thingshappen here, but it was the
perfect place because there'ssomething like, there's a,
there's an energy about theisland and about the people.
(43:30):
It's like hearing the ocean andlike always warm.
Everyone's so inviting.
It feels like this was the rightplace for like payoff to happen.
So yeah, we hope that maybewe'll be back, like we'll retire
here, but if anyone is cominghere and need like
recommendations on places to go,let me know.
'cause we've nice, this islandis so small.
(43:51):
We've tried to find, there's somany things to do even though
it's so small.
We found a lot of the co places,I'm always down to play tour
guide.
How long have you spend there?
Fucking bidet people.
There's no B days.
Hey, I wasn't gonna bring thatup again.
I wasn't gonna bring it upagain.
Rebecca brought it up again.
(44:11):
Yeah, this is my favorite newquestion.
How it was, I'm sorry.
I'm weird.
I'm awkward.
I just, it's fine.
No, it's just a fun question.
It's a fun question I neverwould've asked and now it
delights me and now everyone Iknow at every different state I
don't live in, I'd be like, dothey have the days in Nebraska?
And I'm just gonna ask, I don'tknow.
you never know.
How long have you been in Hawaiifor?
(44:33):
Three years.
Oh, nice.
Yeah.
Four years.
Cool.
It's great.
I love it.
I would miss all the food.
I think All the food.
Yeah.
Our daughter goes to this reallycute local school.
They're so nice.
so she talks with like a Hawaiiaccent.
Which is funny.
Oh, it's like super cute.
(44:55):
Like she says, it's not, youdon't pronounce it Hawaii.
It's, I can't do it.
Hawaii, Hawaii, Hawaii.
She says it like that.
Yeah, like the, because herethere's a, There's a mark
between that, the two eyes, andthat's supposed to be like a
space as you're saying it.
So I always still say Hawaii,but she says Hawaii, which is
(45:18):
really cute.
And just like food they havehere, one popular one is Bam
Zubi is how I pronounce it, isshe pronounce it like she just
has taken all these little,she's like, this is how you
actually pronounce it, mother.
she literally did, oh my gosh.
I wish she could be featured onthe podcast because she, her
(45:38):
personality is the next level.
So she literally told me, Idon't know what you're talking
about when you say Missumi, butat school we say Missy, so yeah.
You know what, Elise?
It's not a German accent.
It could be worse.
It could be a German accent.
Like it could be a Germanaccent.
Yes.
Oof.
No, that's, oh, that's so funny.
When they start getting sassylike that, like mother, when
(45:59):
they start like doubting yourexistence in this world and be
like, you are doing somethingwrong, that's when you know,
you're just like, ugh.
Or like, she, like, when thebaby's crying, she's like, he
needs food.
Or like, take care of your baby,basically.
Take care of your baby.
Okay.
Yeah.
One time I was like, a few daysago, I was like, Elise, can you
like play with, play with yourbrother?
And she was like, but mom, it'syour baby.
(46:21):
I'm like, oh, okay.
Oh, alright.
I'm like, she, you're not wrong.
you're not wrong.
So let me just, you know, I'mnot here to babysit your child.
I'm like, I try to encourage,she's like, mother, I don't work
for free.
Exactly.
She'll, like a Barbie is, mightbe a Barbie is might be.
(46:43):
So honestly it's gonna, she'slike around, it's gonna cost
you, it's gonna cost you motheras long as she's doing that to
everyone else in the world aswell.
I don't want her working forfree.
I want her speaking her mindthough.
Try to encourage that.
That's great.
I love it.
We have a lot more aud,audacious children growing up
(47:04):
and being in this world.
Yeah, we need it for sure.
Which is so interesting becauseI wasn't like that at all as
well.
I was like that as a kid, butthen you get the sheep shit beat
out of'em.
So I think the difference iswith the, with us not beating
the shit out of our kids,they're free to be 100%
audacious and that we had todeal with the fallout of that.
(47:25):
Yeah.
I felt like our, in general,when we were growing up, our
society was just like different.
It did not allow us, like, noteven just our parents, just the
society as a whole, it was like,this is not how you talk, this
is not how you act.
You follow this and it's, it isinteresting to see that it's
just not the case anymore.
Yeah, you don't have to followany guidelines.
So can you imagine telling anadult to their face, I don't
(47:48):
really have time for this thingthat you do as a profession that
you're here to do for me?
I don't have time for that.
Like, to your manager.
I don't wanna for that.
But like back then, as a kid,can you imagine just any of the
teachers?
no.
I could never, I would begrounded for that.
No, not at all.
I re I respect it so much.
M is like my role model.
(48:09):
Like, that's so great.
I hate math.
I wish that I could have Expressthat to my teacher.
It's not dinner.
now we have AI to do it and acalculator.
So I use my Amazon device andI'll just like yell things at
it.
(48:29):
It's like, what's two plus two?
Like, I don't have time forthis.
Thank you so much though forcoming on Taylor.
I am so glad we actually got tospend time and talk to you.
I've been dying to do it forforever.
Can we do it more?
Yeah, we do.
Because that would, yes, we aregonna do it more.
We wanna do it more.
Okay.
Yes, please.
Gonna be in the Discordchatting, talking, working
(48:49):
alongside, because I get lonely.
I love working remotely, butalso I wish I, I did co-working
a lot more, so I think I mightdo that on the East coast.
Like, I like working alongsideother people.
Like I feed off the energy.
Yeah, we did it yesterday.
That was really nice.
'cause I had like, the bullshitI was working on.
We did it today and it was like,it was just like that extra bop
to keep you going so you weren'tI don't know.
(49:12):
And then, yeah, I just, I loveit.
She can email him clip schoolemail.
I'm like, what?
Yeah.
Oh, didn't Then Jamie's like,I'm gonna go take a nap.
Listen, I'm tired.
I thi I really hope I'm notgetting sick.
I'm feeling like I'm just slowlydying.
What do you what I ever since Igot Covid that one time, every
(49:35):
time I get sick it starts hereas a tingle.
Do you feel that ever?
No.
How do you know when you'restarting to get sick?
Like what's the symptom?
I guess it depends.
right now it's just like, Idon't know for sure and I really
hope not'cause I have a tripcoming up.
but it's just like my throat'sbothering me and like I can't
stop coughing and, but I am verysinusy so like I have like sinus
(49:56):
pressure and pain and headacheand I'm like a little stuffed
up.
but that just could be, my eyesget hot like right here with
your eyes feeling hot.
I don't know.
That's how I always know I'mgetting sick is hot eyes, which
sounds weird, but I dunno.
Look at me with your hot eyes.
Yeah, my hot eyes.
You have hot eyes.
(50:17):
She has a tingly nose.
Yeah, I have pressure.
All the, yeah.
hot Eyes is my nickname incollege.
Nice.
Marina.
Hot Eyes.
Hot Eyes was my nickname incollege.
That's a good nickname.
That means you have likeintriguing eyes.
(50:39):
I really, I hate to break thistoo, Taylor, but that really
wasn't her nickname.
she's just, she's being funny.
Who's being asked?
It's a bit, it was a bit Did youhave an actual nickname?
Did you have an actual nicknamein college?
For Real?
Me?
Yeah.
Any one of you?
Either one of you.
Oh no.
I just, they called me Tay.
(51:01):
Oh, really?
A nickname.
They actually called me.
A lot of my friends called me QBut that's only because.
I played a lot of World ofWarcraft when I was in college,
and so I played with like abunch of people, like from
school that were my friends andall my names always started with
(51:21):
a Q in there, so people alwayswould just call me a Q.
Nice.
Yeah, the hot one.
All right.
yeah, Taylor, where can theyfind you online?
They can find you at TikTok.
at Taylor dot Meine.
M-E-D-I-N-E.
Yeah.
(51:42):
You can also Google her, findher excellent writing multiple
articles on multiple different,personal finance websites.
She's a great fucking writer.
She is Great.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Yeah.
yeah.
I can't wait to do this againwith you.
Yeah.
Yay.
Yeah.
We'll have to have you I'll backand show.
We'll see you guys in two weekswith Morgan.
Yeah, that's right.
(52:02):
We'll see you.
So we're off next week and thenMay 15th, we'll have Morgan on.
So thank you guys for here.
We'll be 40 here.
Yeah, we're gonna be 40.
Yeah.
Next time be 40 birthday guys.
You ready?
All right.
We'll see you guys later
the Gen Z that are coming in thearmy is funny because like,
think about having that mindsetin the army.
Like they still have thatmindset and boot camp too.
They're like, yeah, I don't wantto climb that.
I am Jamie.
And I'm Rebecca.
Welcome to the BurnoutCollective.
(00:22):
Hey guys.
Hello.
Welcome Taylor.
Hi.
Taylor inspired us all to weartank tops to the show today.
would you like to share thestoryteller?
Yeah.
on the topic of burnout andoutside influence, my mom wanted
me to wear a professional shirtwhen I had this tank top on.
(00:45):
I thought this was lovelyenough, but she wanted to iron
and give me a shirt.
But the lovely ladies here toldme that I am my own person.
I am can, I can be anindividual.
I don't have to listen to my momanymore.
So I took the shirt off.
Now I am a free flowingindividual with a tank top and
comfortable.
Sorry, Taylor's mouth.
(01:06):
You heard it here.
You heard it here first.
Marina goes, gotta change.
Be right back.
Perfect.
Perfect.
Yeah.
Welcome to Taylor to episode 22.
We are so grateful to have youand so glad you're able to join
us.
Yeah, I'm so excited to be here.
I love you guys though.
I'm so excited to talk about oneof my favorite topics, burnout,
(01:29):
taking care of yourself when youwanna work yourself into the
ground.
For sure.
Yeah.
we have just a little bit ofhousekeeping before we dive in.
thank you to Alyssa for fillingin for Morgan last week.
It was great to have you.
Morgan will be joining us on May15th, so we are so excited to
have her.
It's, honestly gonna say it,it's our birthday month.
(01:50):
We are trying to get somethingplanned, we're working on it
tentatively 5 29, but we'll see.
We'll let you know.
We'll, and yeah, please follow,listen and rate us, anywhere you
can get your podcast.
And if you haven't already, jointhe Discord.
we have afternoon body doubling,if you want company when you
work, we can look at yourresumes, anything you really
(02:10):
need.
It's just a nice community thatwe're building over there.
So yeah, we'd love to have you.
Yeah.
And for next week, did you saynext week or did I miss it?
Five 15?
I did not say next week.
Oh, so next week we're not gonnahave a show, so there's no show.
Next week, we're gonna becelebrating our birthdays and we
are gonna see each other, whichis gonna be great.
what are you guys doing?
(02:31):
I, Jamie wants to get apedicure.
Oh, okay.
I'm trying to figure out, okay.
Yeah, my partner and I are goingto like.
The Pacific Northwest,'cause hehas friends in Seattle, but
we're also gonna go to Portlandfor like a couple days.
And so we were gonna just likemeet Rebecca and her husband,
out to dinner.
(02:52):
But also I'm like, I kind ofwanna get a mani petty.
'cause we got Mani Petty's atthis place near her and it was
literally like the best placeI've ever been to in my life.
Oh, nice.
They did like, it was my firstlike hot stone massage.
okay.
And I don't know if you've everhad that, but on your feet, in
your calves?
(03:13):
Never.
Oh my God.
It's like, you don't know likehow sore and tired your feet and
legs are until that happens.
So you a long nail girly or ashort nail girly?
I'm a short nail girly.
I don't like, yeah, same.
I mean, girl melt like a teenybit.
So like they have a littleshape, but I can't do the long
(03:35):
nails.
I don't know what to do withmyself.
Yeah.
Either.
Now I just yank myselfaccidentally, constantly, like
I'll do something and then likegouge out skin and it's just
short is better.
I'm like, how do I type angrilyand spitefully?
Like I know right.
Whenever I get long I just,yeah.
I like just cut'em off so I canjust like type like a maniac.
(03:58):
Yes.
Mar Marina says, how do you wipeyour butt with long dagger
nails?
You get a bidet marina.
That's what you do?
Yes, I have.
so you're in Hawaii, Taylor,does Hawaii have bidets?
So Hawaii does not have thedays?
No.
I mean if you go to maybe like afancier hotel, sometimes they
(04:20):
have it.
But it's very.
Like minimalist here.
That's what I love.
That's what I'm scared aboutmoving is that the vibe here is
very laid back and I've falleninto that too.
It's not like hustle and bustle.
one thing I absolutely love isthat when you meet people, it's
not like, Hey, what's your nameand what do you do for a living?
It's like, what do you enjoydoing on the weekend?
Or like, what are you about?
(04:41):
What are your hobbies?
So that's something that Ireally dislike about the
mainland that I'm not lookingforward to.
But yeah, nobody and greatpeople.
That sounds really great.
That was the weirdest question Ihave ever heard you ask is just
Hawaii.
I'm sorry, I just like wasthinking about it, that's all.
Like I didn't think so, but Idon't know.
(05:02):
It's still the United States.
That could be.
I know, but they're becomingpopular in the US Yeah, I was
wondering Yeah, a portable kindthat yet the kind that you
connect to your toilet.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But to me it's like, it's coolto have a bidet, but I feel like
there should be a drying aspectafter.
I'm not sure how it works.
You just use the wet, listen,that's why you need a toto
(05:26):
toilet.
The Japanese toilets that, likethey have songs, they have warm
dryers, they have air.
Okay.
Like blow dryers.
That is my Your cooch.
Yeah, that's my, so when I getenough money, I'm getting a
Japanese toilet.
they light up, they sing.
That's my dream.
That's not terrifying.
Shut up, Jamie.
That's not terrifying.
(05:47):
I didn't say anything.
Listen, I'm all for some of uswanna have a dry coer.
No, that's fine.
I do still, I use less toiletpaper, but I do still like dry a
little bit.
alright, we have to stop talkingabout this now.
I'm done.
No, we have to stop.
We have to stop.
We have to stop.
I think the title of thisepisode should be like, does
(06:08):
Hawaii have bidets?
Have a B day.
It's a great, I love that.
I love that.
Anyway.
No, but yeah, Taylor, we wouldlove to hear what was the
genesis of your burnout and whatbrings you here today?
Yeah, so my backstory, I am afinance writer.
I started writing about finance,back in maybe 2011 or 12 ish
(06:34):
when it was like the height ofthe like personal finance and
blogging era.
And so I was writing just aboutstudent loan, were paying my
student loans, blah, blah, blah.
And I absolutely hated my job.
So I decided I was gonna try tomake it as this blogger.
And so I quit my job and Iwanted to make money for my
blog.
That wasn't happening rightaway.
I had no patience.
So I started freelance writing.
(06:56):
I think my first gig of thefreelance writer it was writing
about Kim Kardashian and KanyeWest, like a gossip blog.
And I think I made like$25 for afew articles.
Yes.
but I saw money and I was like,I'm gonna do this.
so that is the beginning of along story.
I was freelancing for almostlike maybe nine-ish years.
but the money started gettingreally, really good and I had a
(07:21):
lot of like, credibility in thespace.
So I was getting a lot of work,but, and burnout happened when I
was just like taking out, takingon so many assignments because I
wanted to meet income goals andI wanted to be this business
person that I envisioned in myhead.
And yeah, that's when I burntout.
I had to pretty much give up thebusiness.
Yeah.
So you started looking for afull-time gig, or did you take a
(07:42):
break in between?
Yeah, no, I took, let me see, IThe break was, I was forced to
do a break'cause because a lotof my contracts ended or clients
like could no longer needed mefor work.
And me and my husband were juston the same page in the fact
that I didn't really need toreplace that income.
(08:03):
So I just started winding downand decided maybe it was a good
idea for me to go into afull-time job where I didn't
have to always think about wherethe next dollar was gonna come
in.
Or like think about getting moreclients or like the benefit of
being a freelancer is thatthere's unlimited income.
You can make as much as you wantbecause you can work as much as
you want.
But that's also like thedownside.
(08:23):
You can always be working atnight on the weekends.
yeah, because it's made moresense at the time in our lives
for me to get a full-time job.
And I've liked it ever since.
And that's like we talked aboutearlier, how when you're
freelancing, like you nevernecessarily know like where your
next paycheck is coming from.
(08:43):
Yeah.
Or like when a client's gonnadrop you or not have as much to
give you as like normally theydo.
So that kind of fixes thatproblem too a little bit.
Makes it look a little moreattractive for a full-time gig,
I guess.
Yeah.
So I, when I had startedwriting, it was really sexy and
(09:03):
cool to be like a digital nomadand like a blogger or a
freelancer.
And I just created this idea,like once I, I tell people
sometimes that instead of likequitting my job and decided to,
deciding to go a whole differentpath, I could have benefited
from therapy at the time becausereally I was trying to fix, is
(09:24):
that an odd thing to say?
I was like, I needed help, but Ithink I was trying to.
Fix something in myself.
because I envisioned, like, if Imade this money, if I have my
own business and if I'm able tobuild this cloud for myself, I
will feel happy.
And it got to the point where Idid those things.
I made the income and I got towhere I wanted to be, and there
was still something not there.
(09:47):
so I just had to, I had to dialit back and figure out what my
values are, what I wanted.
And it was not to work myselfinto the ground constantly.
And thank God.
Yeah.
Thank God for that.
That's actually, I think we bothmet Taylor, when she was
freelancing.
And when we reached out to herfor the show, I was like, I told
(10:07):
Rebecca, I was like, oh, weshould reach out to Taylor.
Like Taylor would be great onthis show.
And we hadn't ever gotten tolike, talk to her like this and
meet her virtually.
It was just, Thanks for theassignment.
Yeah.
Like, you're awesome.
But I told her she was likealways one of our favorite
freelancers because she wasjust, yes, you work very hard
and you do really great work.
(10:27):
we were so excited to see you.
It was so good to hear.
Yeah.
Oh, you really do.
Yeah.
Really do you also mentionedthat like you were, was it in
Germany when you werefreelancing too?
So like you were having to like,go through the stress of setting
up all the other stuff from thatside of the world without any
help?
So I am a military spouse.
so we move every three years.
(10:50):
So our first tour together, Idon't know if they call.
Okay.
So I'm a military spouse, butalso I have joined the, this
whole thing as a military spouselater in my husband's game.
So like, a lot of militaryspouses are indoctrinated into
like the life.
So they know all the terminologyand stuff.
I don't, so I don't know ifgoing to Germany was a tour or
(11:11):
like a move.
I don't know.
So if you, I like tour.
It sounds fancy.
We're on our tour.
Yeah.
If anyone listening to this islike, she doesn't know what
she's talking about.
I don't.
But we were in Germany and wewere, our entire family was
there.
And it was cool because when Iwas freelancing, of course I
could take my career with us anda lot of military officers
aren't really able to workbecause they moved so much.
(11:33):
but when I was in Germany, Ialso had to set up a German
business because the German taxauthority will like find you and
it will not be good if you don'tpay German taxes.
I had to get a Germanaccountant.
one year I paid 30,000 euro intaxes.
I cried because I know because,and I, at the time, after I paid
(11:57):
taxes, I was like.
My husband Tom, I, why am I evenworking?
I'm just working to give all ofmy money to Germany.
But, so yeah, that's how itworked.
And then after that, fortunatelywe left and here we have a lot
of tax breaks if you're like asolopreneur, but there, we
didn't qualify for some of thosetax breaks because we didn't
like use their healthcare and wedidn't have like a retirement
(12:19):
plan.
Like, here you can contribute toa retirement plan and reduce
your tax liability, not there.
So that was a hurdle.
But overall, we love thatexperience living in another
country.
Not many people get to do that.
did you learn a lot of Germanwhen you were there?
No, not a lot because, no.
So Covid, so we had a German, atutor, like a language tutor,
(12:42):
and then Covid happened and wedidn't go anywhere to practice
it.
So we couldn't talk to anybody.
so that was like one year of ourlife there.
So after that, and then when wewould try to use German, they
were just like, don't it justbecause they know English.
So when we're like struggling tosay something, they're just
like, please don't.
Nine.
Yeah.
Yeah.
No.
(13:05):
Wow.
Those warm fuzzy drummonds.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It was cool.
We're now stationed in Hawaiiand then we're moving back in,
in a few months to Maryland onthe East coast.
Oh, wow.
I didn't realize it was thatsoon.
Your daughter?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Nice.
(13:25):
I'm a little scared.
Excited but scared.
I hope it's gonna be a greatmove for you guys.
And are you gonna be closer tofamily then?
Yeah, much closer.
Okay, cool.
All of our family is on the EastCoast, so yeah, we'll be a lot
closer to that.
Very nice.
Awesome.
(13:45):
yeah, I'm really interested too,like one of the things you
talked about, one of the gen,like one of the other ways that
you started getting on aburnout, and we don't have to go
into it, but you mentioned likeyou had a health scare and so it
was this wake up call that like,oh, none of this is important
and like, this is what'simportant.
Yeah.
And it was like a slap in theface.
Yeah.
So I had the epiphany aboutburnout in between Germany and
(14:09):
Hawaii when I made my incomegoals and I.
I was just realizing that I wasstill unhappy when I was doing
all the things I set out to do.
And so I took a major step backand just realized that the
things that I were working onwas just, it was driving me.
The stress level was just likenot sleeping at night, not being
(14:30):
present with my daughter, myhusband, it was not working.
so I took that step back.
Then at the beginning of theyear, we, had a baby, but after
we had, first of all, it was anemergency C-section.
and after that I got postpartumpreeclampsia, which the people
who've never had, a baby before.
It's basically this illnesswhere you have a baby and or
(14:50):
even before you have the baby,your blood pressure just goes
uncontrollably high and theyhave to try to figure out how to
break it down.
And then sometimes it's veryhard to find the cocktail of
medicine that can.
and so during that, you're atrisk of heart attack, stroke,
seizure.
so your blood pressure'ssupposed to be one 20 over 80.
Mine was maybe 180 over like one10.
(15:12):
Yeah.
So it, it was just, wow.
Yeah, it was incredibly scary.
And it was like, it over severalweeks, I had to just keep going
into the emergency room and.
It was the first time I've everhad a brush with like a health
scare because I am 36.
I feel like that's relativelyyoung.
I've never had to worry aboutanything like that.
(15:32):
So it was being in an ICU andrealizing, wait, I'm not
thinking about the work that Iwas doing.
I'm not thinking about how muchmoney I was gonna make or how
much money I had in the bank.
I'm actually thinking about thetime that I would be missing
with my kids or my husband.
So I think that just like I madethe decision, Hey, I'm gonna
(15:52):
step back.
I'm not gonna allow myself toconstantly say yes to things
about a year ago, a little bitmore.
But that situation just dementedthe fact that what matters, like
what matters to me, it mattersthat my family knows that I'm a
good person, that I'm caring,that I showed up for them.
I don't want to be remembered assomeone who's just constantly
(16:13):
working, which is what I feellike my daughter kind of
thinking sometimes at that time.
That's Not what.
I wanna leave this earth.
Mommy was always in her office.
Yeah.
And then she had my brother andshe died, and all I remember is
her working on the computer now.
so yeah, it's very, it's amorbid thought and I don't want
to, I don't want it to, I don'twant to bring it down.
(16:35):
because I look at it and laughnow, like, that was a crazy
time.
I can't believe that happened tome.
Like, that's a crazy story I'mgonna tell 10 years from now.
But it's really like, put thingsinto perspective.
It's great to create things, butalso don't create your own
health.
But I try to tell myself like,don't do something only to
(16:55):
realize that later on it doesn'teven fulfill you.
Like you keep moving in thisdirection because you think you
should, but at the end of theday, you end up being miserable
because of it.
So it's okay to let things go.
When my daughter was little, shewould be like, are you guys done
paying the house off yet?
'cause we told her, she waslike, why do you guys work so
much?
And I was like, oh, so we canpay the house off.
(17:16):
And she's like, every week she'slike, are you done paying the
house off?
Oh, that's so cute.
Yeah.
and so sad.
I know.
Does she still ask?
I feel you.
That's a really good pointthough.
Like, you don't want yourdaughter to be like, all my mom
does was work, and then she'sgone.
And it's like, that's a supersobering thought.
I haven't thought about it likethat, but yeah, that's a hundred
(17:36):
percent accurate.
You don't want that.
yeah, not at all.
So we, so after, I'm notperfect.
I was telling you earlier that,today I took a day off from
work.
but I filled up the entire daywith stuff, so I'm like still
working on, because burnout, Ithink it, it relates to work, of
course, but then it relates toall areas of your life, like
(17:57):
taking appointments all thetime.
So today I booked therapy, whichis great.
Of course, I love going totherapy, but I also booked like
other social engagements and allthese things I took off the day
specifically for this.
So yeah, it's a constantstruggle, but it's always going
back to like, what am I feeling?
And in the case of me, since Ihave a family, like what are I,
(18:17):
what's my family feeling and doI need to reevaluate?
Yeah.
if you're comfortable gettinginto this is something that
Jamie and I haven't really hadexperience with, but it was
really fascinating.
So we've talked about likegenerational trauma, and
breaking those cycles.
But one of the things youbrought up when we were talking
the other night was,generational burnout and how.
Like as a kid of immigrants,that's something that you are
(18:39):
currently working on breakingthe cycle.
And we would love to hear moreabout that.
'cause I think a lot of us arereally unfamiliar with it and it
really is, I think not talkedabout enough.
yeah, sure.
So my family, my mom and dad arefrom Jamaican Trinidad.
so they immigrated to the US andthey did a lot to, they
(18:59):
sacrificed a lot to get us in afinancial position where they
could pay a lot of our college,like for me and my brother.
we still had some loans, butthey did a lot for us.
so as a first generationAmerican, it's on your shoulders
to really, do as good or betterthan the family who brought you
(19:20):
here, basically just as likepaying respect to them almost.
so that was a heavy burden on myshoulders because I don't feel
like I fit the mold of, Typical.
Like I didn't wanna be a doctor,I didn't really wanna be a
lawyer, I didn't wanna be anengineer.
I didn't wanna be all thosethings that an immigrant parent
wants you to be.
So I think that was one, one ofthe reasons I burnt out when I
(19:42):
was a writer.
Because if you tell a parent,any parent, which was an
immigrant parent, that you wantto leave your job to be a
writer, that's just, it's like,what the hell?
that, that always weighedheavily on me, and I think that
was one reason why I put so mucheffort into a lot of the things
I did because I wanted to showthem like, Hey, I'm not in a
(20:07):
conventional career path.
I can still be successful.
So that's something that I thinkmaybe in my.
Late twenties, I got lesspressure from them.
I think they realized, hey,Taylor has to live her life.
She's gonna do what she wantedto do.
But then it was kind of pressureI was putting on myself to prove
that I made the right move.
(20:28):
And so in leaving my freelancecareer and like changing my
perspective, that was one of thethings I had to do.
I had to tell myself that it'sokay to let a lot of that go.
Was it seen like you not, is itseen as like disrespectful to
what they sacrificed and all thework to get you where they are?
Or was it they just didn't wantyou to have to like sacrifice
and struggle so much and likethey were just worried about
(20:50):
like you being successful?
I think at first it might havebeen the first, not
disrespectful, but.
More like, did you see what wesacrificed to get you here?
Yeah.
Like, are you sure that's goingto take you where you think it's
going to go?
and I think the change in themwas, you know what, this is her
(21:10):
journey now.
So yes, we did X, Y, and Z, butshe is free to do what she needs
to do, also like not a freshlyironed shirt over the tank top.
She really does.
Yeah.
But I feel like as everyone cansee the growth, it's still
happening.
Because I wore, my mother waslike, you need to wear a shirt.
And I wore the shirt.
So we should see.
(21:31):
But you reached out for help.
We heard your call.
I reached, I did.
I did though.
I'm still like, I'm stillworking on it.
Old habits die hard, What didyour parents do?
Did they work, like, did theywork mostly outta the house when
you were growing up?
Or was your mom, did she stay athome?
No.
So my.
And it's funny'cause in someways I'm recreating if you learn
(21:54):
this a lot in therapy sometimes,like you recreate your past.
Yeah.
So my dad was in the Air Force,he was in the Air Force for I
believe, 30 ish years, but he,there's like eight ranks in, the
Air Force and he made it all theway to the top.
that was, yeah, he did reallywell in his career.
And then my mom was, apharmaceutical sales person.
(22:17):
And have you seen like, love andother drugs one that movie?
Like she she did that.
and she did really well in hercareer too, yeah.
And so my dad was not, he wastraveling a lot because he like
actually worked on planes andflew around and my mom was the
one who took care of us a lot,but she was often working.
So sometimes I feel like it's,that same kind of habit has.
(22:42):
Kind of happening with me.
And so that's why I had to takea step back.
And she lives with us right nowwhile she's helping me take care
of our young baby.
So we've actually had a lot ofreally in-depth conversations
about me doing the same thingsthat she does and things that
she wished maybe she didn't do,and what I could change, for our
daughter as well.
(23:02):
So that's really lovely thatshe's at least like willing to
talk to you about it too andchange her.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Mindset, which is big.
I like, one of the things inlike just the black community in
general is that things aren'tnecessarily talked about.
And so it is really a big thingthat she's willing to have some
of these conversations becauseit's usually like things don't
(23:23):
get talked about.
Like money is one thing andfeelings is another thing.
And so it is really big thatshe's willing to talk about like
our history and like our future.
Yeah.
No, that's really great.
And it's also refreshing you're,and plus for a parent Your
daughter's seeing that in realtime too.
Like, she's seeing thatconversation happening and like
(23:44):
that communication happeningtoo.
Yes.
Yeah.
It's really awesome.
me and my daughter are verycommunicative.
we talked about this a littlebit before.
I'm balancing how I want toparent her with how I've been
brought up.
Because like in the case oflike, when I was brought up, it
was, you have to go upstairs andlearn your timetables before you
can come downstairs.
Like, it was very like, study,do this.
(24:05):
And so for me, I'm really like,okay, let's do your homework.
If it's good.
If it's not.
But I'm trying to balance, Idon't want her to be like a
failing student, but I alsodon't want to pressure her into
this horribly anxious student.
yeah.
Yeah.
It's a learning experience.
Do you set up, like do you, haveyou set rules for yourself of
like, okay, I'm done working atthis time?
Or like, do you set times apartto like, spend times with the
(24:27):
kids on your own?
Or like how do you carve outthat time for yourself and for
your kids?
Yeah, for sure.
So since I work nine to fivenow, that's basically it.
Nine to five.
I don't try to work over, ifanything, I'll work during my
lunch or maybe lately I've beenworking a little bit earlier
during the day my son wakes upat six anyway, and since I'm on
(24:48):
Hawaii time, it just worksbetter.
yeah, evenings are family time.
It's really, yeah, it's that italways feels so good to like
start setting boundaries andstart saying no.
it's so hard to do, but I knowin my life when I started saying
no to people and no to things,like my mental health was so
(25:09):
much better.
Oh yeah.
A hundred percent, but also, Idon't think so.
We talk a lot about saying no.
just I feel like that's a hotthing and I do it.
You're doing, we're learning it,but I don't think we talk enough
about the response that you'regonna get also from people
because it's not alwayspositive.
Very true.
Like I had, when I was afreelance, I had situations
(25:31):
where I was doing some work forpeople that I don't think I was
being paid enough.
Like I, sometimes I was workingon weekends, like I remember my
husband, but before we gotmarried, he booked this, like,
this Poconos trip away, and wewere supposed to like, have a
little fun in the cabin and Iwas working.
And then I remember that theperson I was working for wasn't
(25:52):
really paying me that well for amonth of work, and I thought we
were pretty close.
and I ended up like justconfronting it, being like,
yeah, I would like be paid X.
Like I don't think this isworking out.
And the response like, wasn'tgreat.
So I feel like sometimes wethink that, we're gonna say no
and it's gonna be like the sun,like the clouds are gonna open.
(26:13):
The sun's just gonna flow downand like everything's gonna be
right in the world.
But there is gonna be pushbackand it is gonna feel
uncomfortable.
So yeah.
I dunno if you've experiencedthat.
Oh yeah.
'cause then how are theysupposed to exploit you and get
you to work for free?
Taylor?
Like yes and no.
Mm-hmm.
Hate.
Yeah.
It's tough when you saidboundaries, it's not always
gonna be pleasant.
(26:33):
Patriarchy's worth it andconsumerism.
That's what it's about.
Exactly.
That's what it's about.
and you said your husband'slearning alongside you too.
'cause you said he's also likefirst gen and so like you guys
are learning this together andgoing through that together.
So like to have that kind ofsupport too, and you're not just
on your own.
That's also gotta be really nicebecause that probably helps you
keep those boundaries in place.
(26:54):
Yes, exactly.
He's helped me so much.
so we've known each other for avery long time.
We met when we were like six orseven, and we've like, were
together.
actually no, we hated eachother.
Came together, left together.
And so we know a lot about eachother.
and so since he is first GenKorean, and so my parents are
(27:18):
from the Caribbean, his mom isfrom Korea, but there's some
similarities in just like thevery strict kind of nature like
you do in Korea.
Like you're a doctor, you'rethis.
so it's very similar in thatway.
so even him going to the armywas like a stretch because
that's not something that hismom has really like seen before
in their family.
but yeah, I think to justify hiscareer choices and just to like,
(27:43):
make himself feel like he's alsoachieving, he's worked his ass
off.
Yeah.
in his career and devote, likehe's been to Iraq multiple
times, he's been a drillsergeant.
He's taken on all thesedifferent roles that just to
keep moving up.
And so we both at the same time,were just like, we can't do
this.
Like, his body is literallyliter, like me mentally break it
(28:04):
down.
His body is because it's a veryphysical job.
So yeah.
We're both always trying toencourage each other, just like
let it go.
Like the Army is still gonna bethe army if you don't give a
hundred percent.
And just like we were talkingabout before, his like 75% is
someone's like 150%.
Yes.
Like give 75.
but yeah, it's, we're trying tojust separate our self-worth
(28:27):
from what we do because we'repeople outside of this.
Yeah.
Was just gonna say, which is sohard to do, like, it's just like
mm-hmm.
Like, I mean, even talking abouthow Rebecca was talking about
how m used to be, like, did youpay off the mortgage yet?
It's like even like at a youngage.
Yeah.
I think like we start out bybeing like, oh, we gotta work.
We gotta work.
We gotta make money.
(28:48):
Yeah.
Yeah.
and we just like go throughthese phases of life and these
like, different decades of ourlife.
And I think a lot of us don'trealize what you realized until
we're in like our thirties orforties.
Yeah, exactly.
And that's why I don't, I knowpeople like, just don't like
aging, but I've found that mytwenties, like were the worst
(29:08):
time in my life.
I don't know why people likethe, I feel like, gen Z I'm not
Gen Z, so I don't know whatgeneration you guys are in, but,
millennials, they we'regeriatric millennials, I think I
am too, so No worries.
they romanticized this youththing and I just, I feel like
between 24 and 30, like thingswere hell, I didn't know what
(29:29):
the hell I was doing.
I was very, I don't know.
And so I just, the awakening inmy thirties, going through like
literal hell, and coming back,it's just, yeah.
I just enjoy it so much morethan being, I'll take this over
being young any day.
Yeah.
You said something really lovelyabout like, not letting yourself
(29:50):
be defined by your work, butlike letting yourself be defined
by the people you love and thepeople who love you.
Yeah.
that's really nice.
That's a major thing.
Or just like activities.
I've, I realized that, coming upin the two thou, I don't know,
did you guys blog at all?
I know that you guys haven'tfreelance, but did you, do you
blog?
Yes.
Did you do like financevlogging?
(30:10):
No, I did lifestyle blogging.
I did like all the free swag andall that shit in like the early
two thousands.
So I, so you're with me here.
It almost, that was a hobby,Like, and then it turned into
like, monetization was yourhobby.
Yeah.
So I realized that I don't haveany hobby that's like, not
related to money.
So that's something I'm tryingto find, myself in like, I've
(30:34):
started painting.
nice.
Like hanging out with friends.
I don't know, just findingthings other than work, because
in, in a lot of respects, youcan't, we talked a little bit
about this before, like yourskill will help you move up, but
sometimes it has nothing to dowith skill.
It's who, you know, whatrelationships you've made,
whether they like you, whetherthey don't like you.
And my husband has been tellingme like, if you base yourself
(30:58):
off of some things that youdon't have control over, that's
like really a negative place tobe in, and that can be super
harmful.
So I'm trying not to, yeah.
100%.
Yeah, 100%.
So I still think it's importantto set goals.
I don't want anyone to thinkthat I'm now just like a
slacker.
I've decided I don't wanna workhard, but I just, I just don't
(31:19):
want to be wrapped, wrapped upall the way in it.
It's something I do, but it'snot who I am.
No.
And morbidly we'll be dead atsome point anyway.
And I would rather spend it notwrapping myself up in my job.
And that's something we're stilllearning, but that, that really
hits home just like it's allgonna end anyway.
You might as well just spend itwith people who you like and
(31:40):
doing what you wanna do.
I was thinking of, you weresaying how like, coming from
immigrant parents and thenyou're like, I'm gonna be a
writer.
I'm quitting my job and I'mgonna be a writer.
Like, that's kind of what myfriend did who also has
immigrant parents and was like,I'm gonna be a standup comedian.
So I feel like how know?
Yeah.
(32:00):
Yeah.
and she or she, or he's stilldoing standup?
Yes.
Comedy actually.
Yeah.
Oh, that's cool.
And he's great, but like, yeah.
At least you weren't like, I'mgonna do standup.
I'm gonna be a funny man, mom,like, no.
Yeah, I don't know.
it's hard to have thoseconversations, so I commend your
(32:22):
friend.
Like, it's not, it's not easy.
Like the, we're always,everything we see online is
like, follow your dream, followyour passion.
But it's not always that easy.
Was there like, like pressure,was there pressure from your
parents to kind of like meet astandard of who they think like
a model immigrant should be?
(32:42):
Is that like what it was?
Was it just like, we need tolike put our best foot forward?
Or was it just like, we justneed you to work hard?
Yeah, I think it wasn't being amodel immigrant, it was just
mostly work hard, like work hardbe something.
also, I think there's anelement, and maybe it's all
families.
I don't know if this is just animmigrant family, but you wanna
(33:02):
be able to like what your kidsdo as an extension of you.
So being able to say, Hey,they're doing this, or like in
conversation, like I guesslooking back at it.
I can see where they're comingfrom.
Because if family members areasking like, Hey, what such and
what's Taylor up to?
And they can't explain it, it'skind and they're like, oh, she
(33:23):
just quit her job and she'sgonna be a writer.
Right.
She gets on the internet Yeah.
About money when they can writeon the internet with that tone.
But she doesn't have any, solike we don't know what's going
on.
Like, yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
And I think the assumption isthat like, writers are broke, so
like, is she, or also theassumption is that writers write
(33:47):
novels, you know, like that typeof thing.
Like there's just, there's justa question like what exactly is
she writing?
Yeah, very true.
So it was also, it was aneducation aspect of my part as
well to show them, like to showthem in their terms what I do.
Yeah.
yeah, it is always funny to hearyour parents like ex try to
(34:08):
explain what you do to somebodyelse, I think.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Marina said, is trophy wife apassion?
That's what I want.
Who?
Hi Rob.
Welcome in.
That'd be a good one.
Yes.
That is a passion of mine forsomeday.
I love that.
Yeah.
There's a meme going around withjust like pictures of fucking
Anna Nicole Smith and a Heidifrom, the Playboy bunnies, and
(34:32):
it's just like, this is how muchI don't wanna work anymore.
I'm really enjoying the movementtowards, and I had mentioned
this also before to you guysthat, there's just been like a
shift in the culture becausewhen, I graduated college, the
culture was hustle, hustle,hustle.
Do whatever you have to do tomake money, any means necessary.
(34:53):
And I actually commend Gen Z fortaking in another approach,
which is.
Work and just do what I have todo at a regular job and then
live life.
So I feel like there's a placein the middle, but I actually do
like their take on it.
Yeah.
They are wonderful, but also sofucking frustrating to manage
(35:14):
because it's like, I know.
It's a balancing act though.
Yeah.
You can't do absolutely nothing.
Yeah.
Especially remote working.
Yeah.
I can imagine.
They're like, have you seen I'm,I don't understand why they've
been going on TikTok and givingremote work a bad name by saying
that they're like at the poolduring working hours when
they're supposed to be doingstuff.
(35:34):
And so now every company thinksthat we are not doing anything
because they're not doinganything that I can't get
behind.
Yeah.
Right.
But also having to unlearn thatbad habits that like have been
ingrained to you for almost 20years of working now..
So job hopping used to be reallybad.
that used to be considered bad.
And I worked for a lot ofstartups and so like, they would
either crash out or lose moneyand I would be like, accused of
(35:57):
job hopping, but like nowthey're like, fuck it, they
didn't pay me, or I didn't likeworking there.
It was a tox environment.
I'm gone.
And they do not care.
They will leave, they won't givetwo weeks.
They're just like gone.
And I'm like, that's, I respectthat.
Like they just don't put up withthat shit.
Also.
That's how, like, you get moremoney nowadays.
Because a lot of companies likearen't giving you raises or
(36:18):
they're just giving you, likethe, like here's like the 1%
raise once a year.
Or whatever.
but that's not enough.
Like, I don't know, dunno ifyou've seen the economy, but
like that's not, that's notgonna cut it.
I feel like people only reallysay it anywhere for a year or
two now.
Like that's, That's the norm.
I've been at my job for twoyears and four months, and
(36:39):
that's the longest I've everbeen anywhere.
And it's crazy.
Yeah.
So you're a veteran.
I know.
I'm, I've been here for year,that's how I feel.
It's like years and years, butit's been two, which like, let's
be honest, it's not that long,but it just feels like for
forever.
'cause I would've had anotherjob by now.
yeah.
So yeah, staying in place is,it's really, I don't know, it's
(37:02):
just really different.
and I think our, yeah.
What else?
I haven't, sorry.
I was just gonna say, I thinklike our parents have a, oh,
sorry.
I think our parents have aharder time too with that
because like, I've had myparents, or like friends'
parents have been like, oh, youcan't keep job hopping.
No, you've only been at thiscompany now for a year and a
half.
Like, you can't leave yet.
(37:23):
And it's like, but they're notpaying me what I'm worth and
they're not treating me and I'mburnt out.
And.
This isn't working out for me.
Like everybody at work's anasshole, but they're like, no,
you must stay.
You have to be there for Xamount of years.
But yeah, that's what you donow.
So go ahead Taylor.
I'm sorry.
(37:44):
I'm, that's a relief to mebecause when I started my
career, I was at a job that Ireally did not like.
And looking back, I felt, itfelt like an eternity that I was
there.
I was only there for like sixmonths, but it felt so long.
And I think the reason that itfelt so long is because I just
had that in the back of my mind.
(38:04):
Like I was still very in thattraditional timeline.
So it was like, you have to stayno matter what.
Like, and it just felt like Iwas trapped, that I was locked
in.
And so I'm just, I'm so gladthat I ended up leaving that job
and now I have this, it.
It's not a problem to be leavinganywhere anymore because,
there's so many reasons that youcould leave within six months or
(38:26):
a year, like maybe you got abetter job.
Like that doesn't mean you'reflighty.
If you're doing what's best foryou, are you supposed to stay
somewhere that pays you less?
They don't give a fuck aboutyou.
They don't give a fuck aboutyou.
If you die tomorrow, they wouldreplace you like that.
You don't owe them anything.
And they like,'cause theyclearly owe you nothing.
No loyalty, just a member.
That's, I think the thing aboutWelcome and Pat, gen Z has been
(38:47):
like, they understand that thereis no loyalty and they are not
loyal.
And that's like a whole, like,they're not grateful to this
company for, they're not, theydon't act like they're grateful.
They act like the company shouldbe grateful they're there.
And again, that's a wholedifferent mindset.
And I'm like, yeah, yes, theyshould be.
I don't know, it's just, it'sthey're very empowered and I,
yeah, I don't know.
(39:09):
I've never, I've heard of that.
I've never worked with, I onlyworked with one, I've only
worked with one Gen Z before.
but yeah, I've never managedone, so I don't know what the.
What would it be like to dothat?
I don't know if it'd bechallenging or, I think it's
fun.
anecdotally, my husband, the GenZ that are coming in the army is
funny because like, think abouthaving that mindset in the army.
(39:30):
Like they still have thatmindset and boot camp too.
They're like, yeah, I don't wantto climb that.
He, yeah, he has a get, get yourhusband in here.
We need to hear some of thesestories.
I'm just kidding.
That's so good.
We have to, and he's, the thingis, he's hilarious.
but he will go in to, it's justlike, it's funny, this type of
(39:53):
stuff he does.
'cause now we're like the oldpeople, like the army is a young
man's game, so they're like all18 and he's 36, so he's like the
geriatric person there.
So he'll like sing like.
HEPA songs or like, just likeSierra songs and they're just
like, what is that?
Like?
We don't know what that is.
That is an oldie, the oldies.
They're the oldies.
You hilarious.
(40:16):
It's hilarious.
Yeah.
Ndi even, even in the Army,they're not trying to do
anything.
So that's very funny.
'cause the army will kick theshit out of you and what I've
heard, but know that, but theycan't really anymore.
Like they have, oh my god.
Can you imagine a Gen Z Marine?
Like a Gen Z Marine?
Can you even imagine?
Right, right.
I cannot.
(40:38):
it's funny.
It's funny.
Our military.
Yeah, it's funny.
Our military, oh shit.
They're very brazen.
I don't know if that's the rightword, but they're just, yeah,
they're their own advocates,which is Admirable.
Very much I think we can learnfrom the youth.
Jen Alpha too is coming upbehind, because I don't know if
(41:00):
I've told the story here.
I know I've told you guys, mydaughter sent her math teacher
an email being like.
Listen, I don't really have timefor math right now.
I'm too busy focusing on myother interests, which are art.
I'm sure I'll fail, buthopefully this doesn't get me
left behind.
And then she ended up Thanks forunderstanding.
I love that.
I love that.
You know what we need, like Idon't have time for this.
We need more audacity.
(41:22):
We really do.
Yes, we really do.
We really do.
Yeah.
I'm trying to be more audaciousin everything.
Just telling your boss, I don'treally have time for this right
now and focusing on my otherentrance.
Yeah.
I don't know if I'll ever getthere, but I'll try to get
there.
no.
Yeah.
I don't know if I'll ever getthere.
(41:42):
So your daughter's very brave.
We could all use that.
We could all use that.
Yeah.
Saying no is a big thing in theworkplace.
Like saying no, I can't do thathas been a new thing as well.
Being like actually in thatcapacity and I cannot do that,
has been totally new and it'sstill so hard to do, like.
Yes.
(42:03):
Ugh.
I think especially with the jobmarket as it is right now, you
don't, you feel like you don'twanna do anything that could rub
anyone the wrong way becausethere's so many unknowns.
Like, could I be next on thechopping block or, yeah, I just,
it's just laying under theradar, not wanting to cause any
problem.
Especially in a specializedindustry where it's very small
like ours where it's just likethere are plenty of people
(42:25):
waiting for your fucking job inthe wing.
So you don't wanna make waves.
You don't want me to notice you.
It's very scary.
Sorry.
By the wave for all the nose.
Boy, it is allergy season and Iam like trying to calm my eyes.
We're over here like dying.
(42:45):
Taylor's like I'm in Hawaii.
Yeah.
I don't know.
There's a lot of polleneverywhere, but I don't, maybe
I'm just like not allergic tothe pollen here.
I haven't had a problem sinceI've been here.
Yeah.
Are you gonna miss it a littlebit though?
Like, I gotta say going to theeast coast versus Hawaii.
Yeah, I, it's really tough'causeI wanna be close to family.
(43:08):
I feel like we're missing out ona lot of like the family
holidays and that sort of thing.
Sure.
But I love Hawaii.
Like this is one of the bestplaces in the world to me.
Like it's very healing.
Like I've had traumatic thingshappen here, but it was the
perfect place because there'ssomething like, there's a,
there's an energy about theisland and about the people.
(43:30):
It's like hearing the ocean andlike always warm.
Everyone's so inviting.
It feels like this was the rightplace for like payoff to happen.
So yeah, we hope that maybewe'll be back, like we'll retire
here, but if anyone is cominghere and need like
recommendations on places to go,let me know.
'cause we've nice, this islandis so small.
(43:51):
We've tried to find, there's somany things to do even though
it's so small.
We found a lot of the co places,I'm always down to play tour
guide.
How long have you spend there?
Fucking bidet people.
There's no B days.
Hey, I wasn't gonna bring thatup again.
I wasn't gonna bring it upagain.
Rebecca brought it up again.
(44:11):
Yeah, this is my favorite newquestion.
How it was, I'm sorry.
I'm weird.
I'm awkward.
I just, it's fine.
No, it's just a fun question.
It's a fun question I neverwould've asked and now it
delights me and now everyone Iknow at every different state I
don't live in, I'd be like, dothey have the days in Nebraska?
And I'm just gonna ask, I don'tknow.
you never know.
How long have you been in Hawaiifor?
(44:33):
Three years.
Oh, nice.
Yeah.
Four years.
Cool.
It's great.
I love it.
I would miss all the food.
I think All the food.
Yeah.
Our daughter goes to this reallycute local school.
They're so nice.
so she talks with like a Hawaiiaccent.
Which is funny.
Oh, it's like super cute.
(44:55):
Like she says, it's not, youdon't pronounce it Hawaii.
It's, I can't do it.
Hawaii, Hawaii, Hawaii.
She says it like that.
Yeah, like the, because herethere's a, There's a mark
between that, the two eyes, andthat's supposed to be like a
space as you're saying it.
So I always still say Hawaii,but she says Hawaii, which is
(45:18):
really cute.
And just like food they havehere, one popular one is Bam
Zubi is how I pronounce it, isshe pronounce it like she just
has taken all these little,she's like, this is how you
actually pronounce it, mother.
she literally did, oh my gosh.
I wish she could be featured onthe podcast because she, her
(45:38):
personality is the next level.
So she literally told me, Idon't know what you're talking
about when you say Missumi, butat school we say Missy, so yeah.
You know what, Elise?
It's not a German accent.
It could be worse.
It could be a German accent.
Like it could be a Germanaccent.
Yes.
Oof.
No, that's, oh, that's so funny.
When they start getting sassylike that, like mother, when
(45:59):
they start like doubting yourexistence in this world and be
like, you are doing somethingwrong, that's when you know,
you're just like, ugh.
Or like, she, like, when thebaby's crying, she's like, he
needs food.
Or like, take care of your baby,basically.
Take care of your baby.
Okay.
Yeah.
One time I was like, a few daysago, I was like, Elise, can you
like play with, play with yourbrother?
And she was like, but mom, it'syour baby.
(46:21):
I'm like, oh, okay.
Oh, alright.
I'm like, she, you're not wrong.
you're not wrong.
So let me just, you know, I'mnot here to babysit your child.
I'm like, I try to encourage,she's like, mother, I don't work
for free.
Exactly.
She'll, like a Barbie is, mightbe a Barbie is might be.
(46:43):
So honestly it's gonna, she'slike around, it's gonna cost
you, it's gonna cost you motheras long as she's doing that to
everyone else in the world aswell.
I don't want her working forfree.
I want her speaking her mindthough.
Try to encourage that.
That's great.
I love it.
We have a lot more aud,audacious children growing up
(47:04):
and being in this world.
Yeah, we need it for sure.
Which is so interesting becauseI wasn't like that at all as
well.
I was like that as a kid, butthen you get the sheep shit beat
out of'em.
So I think the difference iswith the, with us not beating
the shit out of our kids,they're free to be 100%
audacious and that we had todeal with the fallout of that.
(47:25):
Yeah.
I felt like our, in general,when we were growing up, our
society was just like different.
It did not allow us, like, noteven just our parents, just the
society as a whole, it was like,this is not how you talk, this
is not how you act.
You follow this and it's, it isinteresting to see that it's
just not the case anymore.
Yeah, you don't have to followany guidelines.
So can you imagine telling anadult to their face, I don't
(47:48):
really have time for this thingthat you do as a profession that
you're here to do for me?
I don't have time for that.
Like, to your manager.
I don't wanna for that.
But like back then, as a kid,can you imagine just any of the
teachers?
no.
I could never, I would begrounded for that.
No, not at all.
I re I respect it so much.
M is like my role model.
(48:09):
Like, that's so great.
I hate math.
I wish that I could have Expressthat to my teacher.
It's not dinner.
now we have AI to do it and acalculator.
So I use my Amazon device andI'll just like yell things at
it.
(48:29):
It's like, what's two plus two?
Like, I don't have time forthis.
Thank you so much though forcoming on Taylor.
I am so glad we actually got tospend time and talk to you.
I've been dying to do it forforever.
Can we do it more?
Yeah, we do.
Because that would, yes, we aregonna do it more.
We wanna do it more.
Okay.
Yes, please.
Gonna be in the Discordchatting, talking, working
(48:49):
alongside, because I get lonely.
I love working remotely, butalso I wish I, I did co-working
a lot more, so I think I mightdo that on the East coast.
Like, I like working alongsideother people.
Like I feed off the energy.
Yeah, we did it yesterday.
That was really nice.
'cause I had like, the bullshitI was working on.
We did it today and it was like,it was just like that extra bop
to keep you going so you weren'tI don't know.
(49:12):
And then, yeah, I just, I loveit.
She can email him clip schoolemail.
I'm like, what?
Yeah.
Oh, didn't Then Jamie's like,I'm gonna go take a nap.
Listen, I'm tired.
I thi I really hope I'm notgetting sick.
I'm feeling like I'm just slowlydying.
What do you what I ever since Igot Covid that one time, every
(49:35):
time I get sick it starts hereas a tingle.
Do you feel that ever?
No.
How do you know when you'restarting to get sick?
Like what's the symptom?
I guess it depends.
right now it's just like, Idon't know for sure and I really
hope not'cause I have a tripcoming up.
but it's just like my throat'sbothering me and like I can't
stop coughing and, but I am verysinusy so like I have like sinus
(49:56):
pressure and pain and headacheand I'm like a little stuffed
up.
but that just could be, my eyesget hot like right here with
your eyes feeling hot.
I don't know.
That's how I always know I'mgetting sick is hot eyes, which
sounds weird, but I dunno.
Look at me with your hot eyes.
Yeah, my hot eyes.
You have hot eyes.
(50:17):
She has a tingly nose.
Yeah, I have pressure.
All the, yeah.
hot Eyes is my nickname incollege.
Nice.
Marina.
Hot Eyes.
Hot Eyes was my nickname incollege.
That's a good nickname.
That means you have likeintriguing eyes.
(50:39):
I really, I hate to break thistoo, Taylor, but that really
wasn't her nickname.
she's just, she's being funny.
Who's being asked?
It's a bit, it was a bit Did youhave an actual nickname?
Did you have an actual nicknamein college?
For Real?
Me?
Yeah.
Any one of you?
Either one of you.
Oh no.
I just, they called me Tay.
(51:01):
Oh, really?
A nickname.
They actually called me.
A lot of my friends called me QBut that's only because.
I played a lot of World ofWarcraft when I was in college,
and so I played with like abunch of people, like from
school that were my friends andall my names always started with
(51:21):
a Q in there, so people alwayswould just call me a Q.
Nice.
Yeah, the hot one.
All right.
yeah, Taylor, where can theyfind you online?
They can find you at TikTok.
at Taylor dot Meine.
M-E-D-I-N-E.
Yeah.
(51:42):
You can also Google her, findher excellent writing multiple
articles on multiple different,personal finance websites.
She's a great fucking writer.
She is Great.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Yeah.
yeah.
I can't wait to do this againwith you.
Yeah.
Yay.
Yeah.
We'll have to have you I'll backand show.
We'll see you guys in two weekswith Morgan.
Yeah, that's right.
(52:02):
We'll see you.
So we're off next week and thenMay 15th, we'll have Morgan on.
So thank you guys for here.
We'll be 40 here.
Yeah, we're gonna be 40.
Yeah.
Next time be 40 birthday guys.
You ready?
All right.
We'll see you guys later
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