Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
real life, tamagotchi
, but with your pets, rebecca.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
This is terrible.
Well, so far, fake pets havenot worked.
Let's just raise the stakes.
That's a new business model.
We just get a guy in there whoholds a gun to your cat's head
and is like pick up the livingroom.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
I'm Jamie and I'm
Rebecca.
Welcome to the BurnoutCollective.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Welcome to the
Burnout Collective.
Hey everybody, oh my.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
God, hi, I feel like
I don't know what I'm doing
because it's been so long.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Welcome to another
Burnout Collective podcast.
We are so glad you were able tojoin us today.
I know it's the holidays, sothank you for taking the time
out of what I'm sure is a busyschedule to come visit us.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Or hopefully you just
don't have a busy holiday
schedule and you're able to justhave some you time.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
It's true, another
party trick.
If you're sick of your family,go into the bathroom, come watch
our show, and then you can goback out there in three hours
Just in the bathroom for threehours Listening to the pod.
Well, that's the best thing.
Like you can just say don'tcome in here and it sounds like
you're wrapping presents, butreally you're just hiding.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Yeah, bring wrapping
paper in with you and just like,
crinkle it now and then Maybesome ribbon and some scissors.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Just in case shit
goes south.
You know how they have the yulelog for youtube.
We should do that, but for likemoms who need to hide and just
have like an hour loop of giftwrapping sounds that they can
just play.
How was your week, jamie?
Speaker 1 (01:36):
my week was pretty
good.
I feel like it went by veryquickly and it I don't know it
was it was good.
I've been like super tired,like today I thought I was
getting sick.
How was your week, rebecca?
Speaker 2 (01:54):
I got to go to San
Francisco for work.
I've never been.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
Oh, I guess I didn't
realize that was your first time
in SF period realize that wasyour first time in SF period.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
It was it was my
first time in SF period, yes, so
for four days I wore pants andbras and shoes and peopled, yeah
, and so I am exhausted.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
I didn't realize how
out of practice I am at peopling
, but every day felt like I wasputting on a show and that's
just like an introvertintroverting like I would also
be so exhausted.
I'm like that, even just withmeetings, bro, like even not in
(02:40):
person with people, if I havelong ass meetings, I like go
like just get up from my deskand immediately like go get in
bed after.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
It was energizing to
like meet in person the people I
actually work with.
Don't lie Girl don't lie, girldon't lie.
And I knew it was time for meto be done when one of the
bosses said well, what do youwant to do after dinner?
And my actual out loud responsewas go back to the hotel and
take off my pants.
Wonderful so.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
I wasn't lying.
I think Rebecca made a lot offriends on this trip.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
I did.
I meant that with my SanFrancisco.
Aside from whatever that smellis, I do have a problem with
your targets closing at 8.
What do you mean?
You close at 8?
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Especially around the
holidays.
I'm very perplexed by this.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
Yes, they didn't have
Uncrustables.
I asked they don't sellUncrustables.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
This stream's gonna
be so chaotic.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Wait, wait, wait.
One more thing.
One more thing, yes, please.
For introverts who aretraveling, I did not know you
can get day passes to airportlounges, but you can and I got a
day pass each way for theairport lounge for alaska
airlines.
It is hands down the best 60 Ihave ever spent in my entire
love alaska airlines my favorite.
(04:01):
They are my favorite, it is theyare so nice, they have
wonderful food, they have likevery comfy seats, it's quiet,
they have quiet bathrooms.
You know, for that IBS friendof yours, rebecca, it was the
best.
It was honestly the best, likerecentering and recalming and
(04:26):
Recentering, it was recentering.
It was the best cup fillingexperience I had, wow.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
I also like, as
you're reminiscing too, I feel
like you're, like, you're almosteven like blushing a little bit
, like thinking about it.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
They had free food
and free drinks and candy.
Tell me more about this.
Candy and carbs, comfy seatsand wi-fi and no children.
And it was wonderful I lovethat I love that for you.
Yeah, so I found my.
I found where I belong in thisworld.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
That's just like the
true meaning of your life.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
Yes, the true purpose
if we ever get big enough, I am
100 going to ask if we canchill for alaska airlines.
Oh my god can we do?
Speaker 1 (05:14):
that's our goal.
Our goal should be to do a liveshow in an alaska airport
lounge.
Yes, I would absolutely lovethat and they can like sponsor
us, alaska Airlines, pleasesponsor us.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
Sponsor us.
And there was a goldenretriever at the airport
yesterday too, and so I got tohang out with him for half an
hour.
And I have reached yeah, I'vereached the age where I
unashamedly ask someone if I canpet their dog.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Sometimes I forget to
ask and I just like go in for
it, but I'm trying to be better.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
He didn't have a vest
, it wasn't one of those dogs,
it was just a dog dog.
So we played ball and we hungout and again centering, calming
, cup filling get a dog, anyway.
The best thing is coming hometo pets, though, and I'm sure,
like because you had a triprecently, last weekend like the
best thing is coming home topets who really have missed you
(06:10):
and then insisting on sleepingon your face the entire night
long.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
Yes, yes, I like to
say my cats like flank me.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
So, anyway, today's
topic that we will be covering
is getting shit done.
That we will be covering isgetting shit done, and one fun
fact about women as they getolder is that their ADHD
symptoms get worse, while menactually tend to grow out of
their ADHD symptoms, and so Ithink one of the things yeah,
bastards, one of the things wefound is that, as we've gotten
(06:39):
older, our ability to hold ourshit together no longer works as
well, and it is getting harderand harder to complete the lists
of to-do tasks around herewithout completely falling apart
and so we kind of wanted totalk about how we handle that,
tips and tricks, because, again,as this is the burnout
collective, that is one of thethings that is.
(07:00):
A constant cup emptier, I don'tconstant burnout contributor,
whatever the word is.
Maybe we can come up with ourown word?
Speaker 1 (07:09):
yeah, that's true,
just constant fucker constant
fucker.
Yeah, no, I like that one wewere just talking about, kind of
like, just getting shit done,especially from an area of you
are completely burnt out and youdon't really have a lot to give
(07:30):
.
And it's especially hard to getshit done.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
And if you're in an
especially fragile mental health
space, whatever you do is nevergoing to look like it's enough
and you're always going to havelike this running list of shit
that needs to be done in yourhead.
You're always going to havelike this running list of shit
that needs to be done in yourhead.
You're always going to feelbehind.
Also, not knowing where to evenstart has been really difficult
too.
So, like, even even getting thefirst step toward going through
(07:57):
your task list is so difficultand in like the worst depression
days, I, I just can't, and thenthat just compounds on top of
each other because you feelworthless.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
I had to like quit
to-do lists, like because?
For this?
For that very reason, because Iwould be completely depressed
and completely burnt out and Ithink to-do lists worked for me.
Initially, I think I adoptedlike really hardcore being all
about to-do lists when I wasjust trying to compensate before
(08:32):
like I actually, like, had anADHD diagnosis, so it was just
like how I coped with it and I'mvery bad at routines in general
, so I guess that was like atiny sort of routine that I had.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
But eventually, just
like I was in such a bad
headspace and suffering frommany mental health ailments that
the to-do list just became apoint of like how many journals
(09:06):
would you say you have and howmany sets of special colored or
glittery or sparkly pens do youhave that you were intending to
write to-do lists with and thennever got around to it?
I have a whole box.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
It's like infinity,
like I don't even.
I couldn't even tell you.
I could maybe count the pensets that I have, perhaps oh,
yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
Every time I see a
journal too, I'm like well, this
will be the one, this will beit.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
Yeah, this I will
write lists with I think I tried
like one or two productivityplanners or like yearly planners
, and I was like this is not forme, like that was too
overwhelming for me.
It's like, hey, plan out yourwhole year and like, in theory
that sounds great and I wouldlove to do that and I would love
to be that person, but honestly, that stresses me out every
(09:51):
year, at the end of the year, Ibuy a planner for next year and
did you buy one this?
Speaker 2 (09:56):
year I did.
I just got it.
It's on my desk and I cannotwait for five months to go past
when I find it under a pile, andthen I'll do a month of it and
then forget again.
Then it'll be December.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
I think I did find a
planner actually just like a
month or two ago and it was fromlike 2022 or something, and I
had filled out like one page ofit and then, but like what did I
do?
But then I was like oh, butthis is cute though, though, and
so I like just put it back inthe spot it was in.
That is like basically justlike storage, like forget about
(10:31):
me spot and.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
but the thing is, the
worst part is like actually
writing it down, I think forsome people makes it more
concrete mentally, and so I havefound that sometimes, when I do
write things down like I'm ableto remember it, I never do.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
I was always so
digital, like everything was
digital, like I was journalingdigitally when I would journal.
That's how I planned shit out.
But for some reason, when Iwrote these to do lists
especially when they were, youknow, because they weren't like
work related, they were veryjust like personal, more like
cleaning the house I wouldphysically write it down because
(11:07):
I mean.
So I actually not only do Ihave a ton of journals I'm
trying to see if I have one inthis like mess around here, but
I also have a ton of like padsthat are literally like
productivity to do list formatsand like every time to this day,
like if you showed me one thatI thought was like really cute
(11:28):
or looked really great, today Iwould buy it.
I would be like, yes, I needthat.
That's fun, it's gonna fix mylife right.
Get some new nice pens and likesome felt tip, maybe some
sharpie pens, some g2, somepilot g2s.
Are those still a thing?
I haven't used one of those Iget the japanese pilot pens
(11:50):
these are from like muji, but Ithink these are from muji in
taiwan, because like ruthbrought me a couple of them, uh,
but the tip on these is like ohmy god, look at you influencing
pad.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
You know how many
pens I have that.
Still have that like little waxtip on them are you serious?
Speaker 1 (12:09):
oh man, I just had a
flashback to this.
Now I'm like showing off all mypens.
So like this one's so coolthere was a instagram ad.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
It was like the cat
app helps you remember shit, and
I downloaded it and then itonly let me do like one thing
and it's like come back tomorrow.
I was like no, I want to do allthe things now and fucking tell
me something where are thefucking cats, rebecca?
Speaker 1 (12:31):
where are the cats?
Speaker 2 (12:33):
nothing, nothing.
And it was just like you haveto do this in stages because we
want to make this a habit.
Except if I can't do it allright now, I'm not going to come
back to it, because now I'm madabout it.
So I didn't use that for a weekand then deleted that recently.
Another bench one, the bird one.
Oh yeah, I don't give a shitabout feeding or watering my
(12:55):
bird.
My tamagotchis all died.
I don't care.
I don't care.
I'm not motivated by thisanimal that's pretend.
Maybe that's the maybe, that's.
The idea is like if you don'tdo it, your pets, your actual,
real life pets die.
That would maybe motivate.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
My god what real life
, tamagotchi, but with your pets
.
Rebecca, this is terrible well,so far not.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
Fake pets have not
worked.
Let's just raise the stakes.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
Now I just want a
tamagotchi that's a new business
model.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
We just get a guy in
there who holds a gun to your
cat's head and is like betterpick up the living room this is
awful.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
I don't like that.
I mean right now.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
I mean I don't want
to say it, but right now I might
be like okay okay, or he takesall the cat food and you can't
have it back to feed the catsuntil you do the thing.
Do you want them to eat, jamie?
They'll just probably starteating me.
Clean that living room.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
Do it, do it, jamie I
feel very attacked right now
because my apartment is such amess, all right, fine, I'll
switch it around.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
Someone comes and
holds a gun to my dog's heads
and tell me that I have to putaway my laundry.
Is that better?
Like would you do it?
We'll threaten my animals.
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
Would you do it?
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
I'm kind of tired.
Yeah, I know, maybe tomorrowit's terrible.
What if I did it tomorrow?
Speaker 1 (14:22):
We shouldn't be
allowed to be in charge of
anything, especially livingcreatures pets and or children.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
Yeah, you have you
tried like actual apps.
So have you found any that haveworked for you at all?
Speaker 1 (14:36):
so I'll just plug my
friend michael's app.
So the app I use, I use it onmy mac and on my phone, mostly
on my phone it's called fantastFantastical.
They're constantly likeupdating it to make it better.
I think it just looks veryaesthetically pleasing and it's
also very simple and you justkind of use gestures to like do
(15:00):
different things.
It's very sleek.
I've used that forever, likeway over a decade, maybe at
launch.
I think I was using it sincelaunch because that was back
when I did like tech and appjournalism and I'm sure I got it
for free.
But yeah, fantastical is great.
I love that for my calendar.
I do.
(15:20):
I am still using.
I don't know if you were awareof this, but were you aware of
all the like GTD bullshit wherethey had these very elaborate
apps like OmniFocus?
I don't know what GTD is,getting things done?
It was just the idea of likeyou just barfing up everything
(15:43):
that's on your mind that youhave to do and then you would
move it into categories that'son your mind that you have to do
and then you would move it intocategories.
And I always tried to make thiswork for me because it seemed
so cool, but it just it neverdid work for me it never worked,
but one that was kind of inthat.
That's kind of a GTD app.
(16:08):
It's called Things.
I still use that to this day.
My dad and I are obsessed withThings.
It's called Things.
I still use it to this day.
I might like, when we do shownotes for this, I should put
like some screenshots in,because I have everything.
Like I have like a sectionthat's like doctor and then it
has like notes or like recentthings.
I have like a section that'slike these are all the
medications I'm currently takingand the dosages.
I have a section for like giftswhere I separate it out by like
(16:29):
the people closest to me andlike I add ideas for what I
might want to gift them forbirthdays or holidays.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
So it's not like a
to-do list, though.
It's just more like info dump.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
It is a to-do list.
I wonder if I don't have it Idon't think they have it for PC
or if they don't do I don't haveit.
I don't think they have it forPC or if they don't do, I don't
have it for PC.
So I can't show it right now,but I can maybe bring it up in
browser.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
No, it's fine, we can
I mean, we can also Google.
If you can't find it, it's nota big deal.
Domestic blisters is akickoffer that I've watched for
a long time.
And one of her other things shesaid is like, instead of
striving for like perfection,it's like striving for doable,
and this is a super extremeexample.
But she's like, if you have asink full of fucking dishes that
(17:17):
you cannot deal with, throwthem away.
Just pick them up, throw itaway and start over, like it's
better.
You honestly like, yes, savethe environment, but in this
moment, like it's better thatyou are able to get your shit
together and just start overagain, and that one pile of
dishes like is not gonna, youknow, contribute to overall
(17:38):
global warming.
You need to be able to existyeah and again it's like such an
extreme example, but that ideaof like putting yourself first
and just doing whatever it takesto help yourself instead of
like continuing to struggle,yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
It also like her.
I love her so much.
She actually like helped me aton when I was I think I had
just gotten diagnosed with ADHDand was starting meds for the
first time and like I think thathelped give me a little push as
well.
But that's what that was mylike.
Remember my crazy like all Idid was just like organize
(18:16):
everything and it was insane.
But she kind of and not thatshe's like that, like she
actually is like I'm not theTikTok account.
That's going to be like look atthis perfectly organized fridge
with all these containers in itand everything's decanted in
the pantry into this.
Like she's like the opposite ofthat.
(18:36):
She's like I don't do that shit.
She's like I'm real, I love her, her laundry system I think she
has a big laundry room now,room now and so she has like all
these cubbies in the laundryroom where she just like it
started with her kids clothesbecause she was like folding her
kids clothes and then havingtrouble folding things and
keeping up with it and she'slike why the oh, why am I
folding these kids clothes?
(18:56):
Like they're babies like that?
Who cares, right?
um, oh, look at that wrinkledbaby's clothes right, nobody's
gonna say that nobody's payingattention to the baby's clothes.
They're just like, yeah at thatcute baby.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
They're going to
literally shit up their own
backs into the clothes anyway.
Yeah, what is the point?
Speaker 1 (19:13):
You're gonna have to
wash it like in a few hours
anyway, so just deal.
But so then.
But then she applied it to likeher clothes and her husband's
clothes, so like I think herhusband's a lawyer.
So there are things that shedoes hang up for him and like a
few things that I think shehangs up for herself, but other
than that everything's just likeput in a.
I mean, I don't think she likecrumples it up and like throws
(19:34):
it in a bin.
I think she kind of lays themin a bin.
To me that's a very good thing,because she was working with
herself instead of like workingagainst herself and trying to do
it this way because it's theright way, and I love that she's
working with her ownlimitations and I think one of
the things with getting shitdone is realizing your
limitations and then acceptingthose verses, berating yourself,
(19:58):
which is really difficult, yeahyou are your own worst critic.
You are always gonna tellyourself how awful you are even
when you're not.
You started like making time foryourself too, which I think is
huge and something I think a lotof people don't do at all or
even know to do yeah, I mean I'mstill working on it, but like I
(20:21):
think one of the thingsactually started with us meeting
about the burnout collectivebecause scheduling that and I
also added it to my workcalendar.
So, like all throughout the day, when I would look at my
calendar for different meetings,I would see that like oh, on
Saturday I get to do the podcastand that was always like a fun
(20:41):
little you know nugget in a seaof.
So, yeah, I did that.
I started scheduling like morethings.
So I try to be good about likelike I went and had lunch with
my friend Ruth yesterday and Iput that in my calendar.
Like we decided the day before,but I like put it in my
calendar, so it's there.
(21:02):
So I also think it helps me tohave like a time.
So if you're ever trying tohang out with somebody and like
shit keeps falling through, likedon't be afraid.
I know it does sound kind ofmaybe stodgy, but don't be
afraid to say like can we do acalendar invite or something?
(21:24):
Let's do that.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
You know, what's
really interesting is this also
transfers over to work, because,like, the higher up you get,
the more meetings you have abouteverything, and then also you
have to get work done.
And I've started, I've startedlike saying no to meetings, like
no, we need to reschedule this,because before it's like a fear
of you have to go to all themeetings or you're seeing it's
like not a team player, but alsoyou have to get work done, and
(21:50):
so I would rather feel balancedthan crazy all week long yeah,
schedule, I have to.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
Yeah, time block
that's uh, that's actually
something I was telling rebeccathat I just started doing.
Like I've been doing what I dolike career-wise for like 13
years and just this year I waslike, oh, I really need to start
scheduling time blocks so thatI can actually get work done.
(22:21):
Because I know it's different,but, like I was, I was a manager
and so my calendar was alwayslike full of meetings, some of
which I had control overcanceling or not going to others
I did not, and so so peoplewould schedule stuff for me like
all throughout the day becauseI had everything open Time block
(22:45):
yourself, take the time.
I would do like weekly timeblocks where I had like a time
block in the morning first thing, because I'm also not a morning
person, so I will not have ameeting with you before 10 in
the morning unless absolutelynecessary, and maybe you live in
like London.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
Yeah, but can we talk
about, like, when people start
taking fucking advantage of that, they're like well, it actually
is necessary, so we do need youto attend this eight o'clock
meeting, or, like they scheduleon your time block anyways,
which is come on man, I I waskind of a bitch about it.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
People would schedule
over my time blocks and I and I
would message them and say like, oh, hey, I can't make this.
Then I have something alreadyon my calendar, can you?
But that is a thing like Ididn't understand that, unless I
have a big group of people in ameeting that I'm trying to
figure out a time for all of usand there's one person who has
that I can tell it's like apersonal time block.
(23:37):
I still don't know what it isright, but I asked them.
I would say like, hey, I knowyou have this time block for
yourself.
Is it at all possible this onetime to do this, do this?
I hated that people did that tome all the time.
I started doing my time blockstoo, because, depending on how
you have your calendar set up,people can see either they just
see busy for all your meetingsor they can like see the names.
(24:00):
I would suggest changing it.
So I didn't change.
So everyone saw busy all thetime.
But I made my time blocks formyself to get work done.
Just say busy.
So that way it's not likepersonal time block or like get
work done.
But that was absolutely a gamechanger for me and I don't know
(24:20):
why it took me 13 years to dothat.
I mean, I I've done that forspecific projects like time
blocked a couple hours, you knowa few days a week, to work on
something specific.
But literally I would have twotime blocks every day and
sometimes more, depending onwhat I had to work with.
Yeah, no, I highly suggest,highly suggest.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
Off the top of my
head, by the way, this just
popped up.
I have started like schedulinggifts and so and david is my
go-to for christmas gifts and soyou can buy ahead and then just
schedule whenever you wantthose to go out, so like
birthdays, christmas, whateverand then just buy them, see when
you want them delivered.
Genius, I didn't know you didthat.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
Oh my god, do you
have a harry and david basket
maybe, like scheduled for me?
Speaker 2 (25:10):
I mean, if you want
one, I will, I will absolutely
do that, I freely give out myaddress for those pairs yes,
they.
I mean, they are good too andthey're local.
So automating, automatingthings to like make your to-do
list smoother or easier,automating your shit automating
your shit.
I want to automate everythingall the time asking someone for
(25:33):
help is underrated, but likebody doubling has been
life-changing.
I know you and I started outall of this by just being like I
need to wash my fucking dishesand I need someone to.
Just, it's honestly likedistraction while doing chores,
but it's like please wash mydishes and I'll wash my dishes.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
It's like watching
like a riveting movie or tv show
.
When you're like on thetreadmill, you know, yes, trying
to like just which never worksfor me, by the way, also just
treadmill in general and it'snot like, oh, they're holding me
responsible, I don't.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
I don't know if it's
just like we're suffering
together and so there's likecamaraderie in suffering, or
what I don't know.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
It's like I mean,
it's the same for me.
Like my friend ashley just waslike I'll, like I I we were
talking about mental health andI had told her like I'm
currently working my way out ofmy like depression hole
apartment because, like thiswhole year has been a really bad
year for depression for me, andshe's like I totally understand
.
She's like if you ever want meto just come over and sit on
your couch while you do stuffand keep you company, I will.
(26:39):
And I'm just like marry me.
Will you marry me?
Speaker 2 (26:43):
I have offered to fly
out there, I know oh shit, I
shouldn't have said, shouldn'thave said that.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
Now I realize I
shouldn't have said that.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
Yeah, I don't fucking
think so, Ashley.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
Now's a bad time to
tell you that Alyssa offered to
fly out and I told her I waslike that's really nice and
that's really great andeverything, but like Rebecca has
offered to do that multipletimes and I've told her no, and
so Alyssa was like what I'mhearing is Rebecca and I just
both fly out.
(27:10):
And I was like okay, I mean I'dbe down all right next week.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
Come on, guys, let's
go, let's do it next week, yes,
but it's true, just havingsomeone there like just body
doubling is.
And even like, if you do havesomeone in the apartment or the
house, like I was like Rob, I, Ican do this, just tell me where
to start.
Like I just, I, I can do this,just tell me where to start.
Like I just need, I just needyou to tell me where to start
and what to do and I can do it.
But like I'm overwhelmed when Ihave to figure out the next
(27:35):
steps, which leads me intogoblin tools, which is fucking
great.
You can basically use it foranything and everything.
But what I like to do is I'mlike here's everything I have to
do.
I need you to make a to-do listfor me and break it down so I
know exactly what to do andwhere to start.
(27:55):
And it's like prescriptive andit is.
Speaker 1 (27:59):
It takes away that
like that freeze response, like
that overwhelm, and helps youjust like do the thing yeah,
like I think when you told meabout it, the first thing I put
in was my house is a depressionhole and I need to clean the
entire thing.
And then I clicked enter and itwas literally like the first
(28:21):
step.
So it breaks it down into thetiniest steps and the first step
why are you laughing?
Why are you laughing?
This is my life.
Stop laughing at my depression.
Step one no, get a gun.
Like what?
No, it was like no, it was like.
Step one take a deep breath,which honestly made me laugh.
So I feel like we're alreadyoff on the right foot.
(28:42):
Um, take a deep.
Yeah, it was like take a deepbreath, take a deep breath.
This is a weird productivityhack.
Sometimes I pretend I'm at afriend's house, but I'm just at
home cleaning my house, so I getthe good feel.
Alissa, that is very that's sad.
See, that's just sad to me.
Are you okay?
Yeah, are you okay, alissa?
I pretend I'm at it's not sad.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
So you're basically
Truman showing yourself.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
I deserve to have
help too.
This is definitely a cry forhelp, for sure.
I mean, I guess maybe we justhave to go over to Alyssa's
right.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
My invisible friends
are here.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
This is a very good
opportunity for us to plug our
Discord.
This is a very good opportunityfor us to plug our Discord
because we actually have bodydoubling.
We call them like co-workingchannels that Alyssa has been in
and benefited from.
I hope.
Speaker 2 (29:44):
Like instead of, you
know, imagining she has a friend
with her at home.
One option for people who enjoytalking.
Another option for people whoenjoy talking another option for
people wait.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
Yeah, so if you want
someone in the room with you,
even just like on video or off,like if you just want a video on
, so someone's like there, whichthat's really weird to me, but
we have a channel for you.
Just have a local friendrandomly call and say they're
going to be over in 20 minutesand they're on their way.
Then have them check back in in30 and say it was all a lie,
(30:14):
see, but then I would be likeprepared for it, you know you
know?
Speaker 2 (30:18):
what they could do is
they could pretend to be your
apartment management company andemail you to like they're
coming over to test something in30 minutes.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
Are you saying that
because, like, that's something
that gets me motivated as fuck?
Speaker 2 (30:32):
yes, oh my god,
they're coming over to test the
fire alarms.
Tomorrow, oh my god, they'recoming over to change the ac
filter hey, they never actuallytested the sprinklers.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
They said they were
going to test the fire alarms
and the sprinklers and I'mpretty sure they were a week
late and they never even checkedthe sprinklers, so maybe it
wasn't really them.
Jamie, listen, and all thisjunk.
I've been depressed up in here.
I've accumulated a lot of shitfrom you know, shopping to cope
and it's like a fire hazard,just saying I'm sorry, but body
(31:04):
doubling online yeah, do it.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
Celebrating small oh
my God, I sound like a therapist
, but celebrating small wins.
Like you said that you writedown things.
Like if you don't have a to-dolist, you write down a list of
things you've actually done,because there are days where
you're just like I didn't doshit, but like actually no, I
fed the cats, I brushed my teeth, I got dressed.
Like, even if it's just likewhen you are trying to climb out
of that hole, like startingsmall.
Speaker 1 (31:30):
Yeah, I think that's
what my therapist made me do,
because I would.
I was at, I would actuallyjournal like pretty regularly,
not every day or anything, butlike a couple times a week at
least.
And that's when like-do listsstarted failing me completely.
I had mentioned to my therapistthat, oh, I did this journal
(31:52):
entry where, for whatever reason, it just popped in my head, I
started listing out the things Ihad done that day and it was
everything.
So it was played with the cats,took a bag of trash out, went
for a minute walk.
You know, it was like the veryoh yeah, oh dude, I'm so off the
dalio wagon.
What dalio?
(32:12):
It's an app that I will talkabout shortly that I got.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
What animal do you
get to kill in dalio?
Speaker 1 (32:19):
no, it's dalio, it's
just like that was.
I use that to track my moodbecause I never remember and my
therapist would always be likewell, how did you feel about
that that day?
And like how was this and howwas this?
And I was like I don't remember.
I was like I'm sure I was upset.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
So, oh my God, jamie,
you are your own animal that
you get to not take care ofYou're.
I didn't feed myself or drinkwater today, oh no.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
So I'm dead, so I've
been dead this whole time.
So now this is just the ghostof Jamie, of of Christmas future
and Christmas present andChristmas pass.
I hate this for me.
Speaker 2 (33:06):
I hate this for you
too.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
Why would you say,
why would you bring that?
Speaker 2 (33:12):
thought into the
world because it just popped in.
I was like, oh no, we, not justyou, but like we're our own,
like we're our own app animalsthat we neglect.
We don't need apps for it, wecan just neglect ourselves just
fine.
Saying out loud like this isonly for work, not at home,
because I will 100 not do what Isay that I'm gonna do at home.
Like one of my co-workers, I'lljust be like, hey, here's what
(33:34):
I'm planning to do today, and Isay it like out loud in meetings
.
And so it's not that I'mholding myself accountable, but
I'm just like letting someoneelse know that like you're doing
work and I mean just you don'twant to let them down, you know
that you have to do it.
I think that also helps.
And it's not like she's not adick if I don't not do anything,
but it just it kind of helps mesort of make that commitment to
(33:55):
actually move forward.
Yeah, how?
Stuff?
Not a chance?
It's hard.
I've been I've been threateningto like unload those laundry
baskets for weeks.
I've been threatening to likeunload those laundry baskets for
weeks now, Like threatening.
Speaker 1 (34:10):
Is that how you try
to get motivated?
You're like I'm going to foldthose clothes and I'm going to
put them away if they're stillhere tomorrow.
But it doesn't work.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
Guess what?
They're still here?
Just little doom piles.
Oh my God, I have Russiannesting dolls with doom piles at
this point.
Speaker 1 (34:28):
Yeah, I think I do
too, actually, now that you
mentioned that.
So dailyo was an app that Iused to track like moods, and
you could track other things.
Like it could be as minimal oras like robust as you wanted,
like you could literally just belike I'm happy today, done.
Or you can like edit theemotional mental states to like
(34:52):
your liking.
Like you could have one that'slike I want to die and then
another one that's like best dayever, and you can also track,
like the, what the weather waslike that day so that you can
kind of see I would track mymigraines and just kind of look
at those based on how my day was, the like how I slept.
You could say like how youslept that night, what the
(35:14):
weather is, and see like themes.
Speaker 2 (35:16):
So it's mostly for
moods and yeah, yeah, I did that
every day, but I have not doneit in many, many months now it
also helps when, like yourperson, or like your best friend
or whoever has it a little bitmore together, like rob, yes,
also so not us, like not us,because neither of us has it
(35:37):
together we don't.
But rob does shit like wash thetowels, a thing I forget to do
at all times.
If he did not do it, it wouldnot get done, and it's not
because I'm lazy, it's notbecause I don't want to do it,
it's because it's literally athing that my brain just kind of
(35:59):
forgets about.
Speaker 1 (36:01):
I also hate the word
lazy.
Speaker 2 (36:04):
I hate it right,
because it really isn't.
Speaker 1 (36:08):
It's like if I had
the energy, I 100 would, but my
brain is so busy holding on touseless shit that it doesn't
have time to remember actualthings like wash the towels yeah
, and sometimes you have to dealwith the dirty towels or dirty
sheets to just take care ofyourself for like another few
(36:32):
days, you know, because it'slike you can't get the energy
because you're so depressed andyou're so, just maybe, burnt out
out.
Speaker 2 (36:48):
Um, I'm also gonna
say medication is fucking
amazing.
I told my psychiatrist I waslike, listen, I can handle my
shit during the day, but I cantell when my adhd meds wear off
and I do not have the energy todo any more.
And she I was like I was like,do we just increase the
medication?
She's like well, how about Ijust give you like a mini med to
take in the afternoon?
That kind of helps you get overthat hump and like it.
It was like a no shit kind ofthing.
(37:09):
But I was like, oh my god,that's such a good idea, that's
what my psychiatrist did too.
For me, even something littlelike that makes a huge
difference yeah, it really does.
Speaker 1 (37:20):
Triage for
maintenance in one's dwelling is
hard.
Yeah, it's.
It's very difficult.
It's like I don't know, and Ialso think about how hard it is
for me when I literally livealone.
I mean, I am a single, singlemother of two cats don't know if
(37:41):
you know this too hard.
Speaker 2 (37:43):
Who loves her cats
and never stuck with gentle
hands and the heart of thefighter?
Speaker 1 (37:49):
two cats.
Don't know if you know this.
Rebecca, rebecca McCracken,everybody, good job, rebecca.
You're doing a good job.
Good job, you're doing yourbest.
We're doing such a good jobhonestly.
Speaker 2 (38:00):
But no, that's true.
Like I have Rob Having to takecare of it, having to keep house
on your own, there's, there's,infinitely more work.
Speaker 1 (38:09):
So I feel like a lot
of the time.
That should be easier.
But then there are other timeswhere I'm like somebody could be
doing the dishes for me rightnow, just like lend lend me your
(38:33):
husbands, but only forhousework.
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (38:38):
I'm also going to go
out on a limb here and I'm going
to say maybe the most whitelady thing I've ever said, but I
want to caveat it with we makeroom in our budget, no matter
fucking what, for this one thing.
Natalia comes and she doeshouse clean every two weeks and
it has been the best fuckingdecision I have ever made in my
(38:59):
life.
I started doing this a fewyears ago.
We are lucky enough to have thebudget for this.
But also she's been an actuallifesaver.
She's been an actual lifesaverbecause I don't have to worry
about doing this on the weekendsand so I'm not constantly
running on burnout and I knowthat I'm taking care of my
family by having them in acleaner house and I can feel
(39:22):
better and it's like okay, onething I don't have to do like.
Even when I was unemployed, Iwas like I'm gonna fucking
forego everything else to scraptogether the two hundred dollars
oh, so you like?
Speaker 1 (39:33):
you cut back on
shopping then, or?
Speaker 2 (39:36):
I would much rather
have a clean house, but did you
cut?
Speaker 1 (39:38):
back on shopping shut
the fuck up, jamie, I I love it
here.
Speaker 2 (39:45):
What I'm saying,
asking for outside help is,
again, it's a luxury and maybe alast resort, but honestly,
invaluable.
And my grandparents as theywere getting older, their house
was getting worse and worse andI finally brought it up to my
mom and it made their quality oflife better.
Speaker 1 (40:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:02):
Because they got to
have a cleaner house.
Speaker 1 (40:04):
I think that can be a
motivator too, because my
parents were the ones to cleanout my grandparents' house when
we had to move my grandfather toassisted living.
And because it was just theylived in that house first of all
for, like, my mom grew up there.
So I think they were in thathouse for like 60 years or
something, 50 years, I don'tknow.
(40:24):
Just take that in likeliterally living in a place for
50 years, so like 50 plus yearsof just you accumulating your
shit, right?
Speaker 2 (40:36):
and also I'm guessing
your grandparents were the
generation where they were kindof like waste, not want, not, oh
yeah, they, oh yeah, theydidn't know, like the depression
era, not throw away things,kind of are you?
Speaker 1 (40:47):
are you familiar with
the with the show seinfeld, a
little bit.
Have you ever seen georgecostanza's wallet?
Yes, that's my grandfather'swallet.
Like, literally, I'll have to.
I should also put a picture ofmy grandfather's wallet and it
was held together with a rubberband.
It was like I think it wassupposed to be just like this
thick and it was held togetherwith a rubber band.
It was like I think it wassupposed to be just like this
thick and it was like this thickand most of it was like expired
(41:12):
mcdonald's and fast foodcoupons.
That, by the way, that, by theway, my grandfather bless his
heart, amazing.
But the most frugal man I knowwould still try to use and he
would try to be like verytourist of him, I think, also a
tourist.
Just he would like go and belike, oh, I didn't know it was
expired, like are you sure,don't you want to just?
(41:34):
And then they would most of thetime like he would get them to
use it.
Speaker 2 (41:38):
It was ridiculous
obviously I can't wait to be old
enough that I can steal, justlike so old that you can steal
and get away with it.
Speaker 1 (41:45):
I feel like you can
get away with so much shit when
you're old.
Speaker 2 (41:49):
Yes, look at that.
Oh, I thought I paid for thisbed.
I'm so old.
Speaker 1 (41:57):
I'm going to start
doing that now.
I'm going to be like old, sorry, yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:02):
Oh, I didn't see the
pun expression date.
The tears of my my husband deadgained it and I read it and I
still use it.
Okay, just like anything, andthey like you, let you get away
with it.
Who's gonna?
Speaker 1 (42:18):
it's a little lady,
for you are breaking up for me
again.
I don't know if it's just me.
You're for me, am I Probably?
Oh, so what's happening?
Wait, why is there a connection?
But we're both breaking up.
Speaker 2 (42:33):
It's better now.
Yeah, it's fine, right?
Anyway, we're fine.
Speaker 1 (42:36):
We're good, we're
doing our best.
I feel like we've been all overthe place.
I wanted to oh, oh, because myparents like a to-do list.
Yeah, because my parentscleaned out their house and it
was such an ordeal, horribleordeal.
My parents are now like they'remotivated to get rid of more of
the stuff they've been hangingon to.
(42:58):
Yes, like including.
I mean they've kept some of it,obviously because they do have
grandchildren now, thank god,and they're just motivated to
like get rid of stuff and likethey've saved my mom has saved,
you know, stuff we had when wewere a baby and I'm sentimental
too, I get being sentimental,but like there's, there is a
(43:21):
line, there's a line I have toldmy mom if she leaves anything I
will throw all of her shit away.
Speaker 2 (43:28):
I have pointed to the
things.
I was like I want that and thatand if you leave me anything
else, I'm throwing it away.
I am.
Speaker 1 (43:34):
Did you just point to
the money, like any money that
they may have left over.
Speaker 2 (43:37):
Yeah, pretty much Her
bank account.
But I was like I don't wantyour shit and I will throw it
away.
I'm serious and I'm theexecutor of the estate and I'm
like I will.
Is that a good idea?
Speaker 1 (43:47):
Yeah, I guess it is
probably.
Speaker 2 (43:49):
But I'm just saying,
like being very clear with your
parents who are getting outthere, that like I don't want
your shit, I don't want yourlaugh, I don't want your shit If
you leave it, I am telling youwhat will happen.
So lay in bed dying, be likewell, she'll get my 500 boxes of
christmas ornaments, uh-uh.
Speaker 1 (44:10):
No, I don't need that
in my house.
I've already got enough shit inmy house.
I still need to put up my treeand I'm like I'll put up my tree
when my house is clean, but Istill want to put up my tree by
christmas so that my niece andnephew can be like ah, yep, I'm
tired.
I'm tired just thinking aboutlike continuing, because it's
been a journey.
I've literally been just slowlycleaning my apartment all year,
(44:34):
you know, and I do like justenough, and then it gets worse
again.
Step out, but you did a lot.
I did a lot, yeah, but itdoesn't look.
That's the thing is like that'show.
It's like not as motivating,because I've I did like a shit
ton of work.
But you look around and I'mlike no one can tell that I did
stuff in here like I know,because I know.
(44:57):
But it's like if you come intomy apartment you're like oh, you
sent me an after of your fridge.
Speaker 2 (45:02):
Did you take a before
?
No, I'm sick, but no, I I'm notsaying I want to see the before
, but I'm yeah, like you takepictures of afters, but like I
genuinely mean this, considertaking you befores I'm like
embarrassed by the befores, butI don't have you're right yeah,
I don't have to see them,they're're for your eyeballs and
(45:23):
then you can visually see like,oh okay, because it's hard to
you kind of forget about how itactually was.
But if you show yourself beforeand afters, maybe that would
help.
Speaker 1 (45:37):
Yeah, I think you're
right.
I have taken throughout theyear.
For some reason, I'm literallyjust like life is art and there
have been at least three timeswhere I've like walked by part
of my apartment, I think,especially the kitchen, and I've
looked at it and I've been likethis is awful, but it's art.
And I've taken a photo.
(45:58):
I think I sent you one becauseit was a photo of what had
happened.
Something happened, I think,like my parents sent me flowers
or somebody sent me flowers, andit was just like my messy
kitchen, like you couldn't seethe counter.
I think my stove was likecovered and then there was just
these fresh flowers, like in avase, in a nice vase, just in
(46:20):
the middle of it all, and thenyou can see my reflection, like
in my microwave, where I justlook disheveled and I was just
like this is art.
It'll be in a museum somedaybecause it does feel like the
layers of decluttering and thechaos of organizing for so long.
Speaker 2 (46:38):
Yeah, it's just here
is my other thing aura katarina
and not theleaner are two peopleI follow on TikTok and if you
think your shit is bad, you havenot seen five years worth of
bottles filled with urine.
Well, if you put it that waythey're cleaning someone's house
(46:58):
out, like they go in and theyclean like sporting level houses
and you're like, oh my, oh, mygod, okay, and you know what.
It helps me feel so much betteryeah, it really really does.
Speaker 1 (47:14):
I do love her.
Some of it's hard to watch,though, because it is kind of
gross, you know yeah, but likeyou don't have five years worth
of urine filled I hope not.
Speaker 2 (47:24):
You're in filled
bottles and then you don't know.
You don't know, you don't havefive years worth of urine-filled
bottles.
Speaker 1 (47:26):
I hope not
Urine-filled bottles, you don't
know.
You don't know, that's maybetwo years.
I ran out of toilet paper threemonths ago, rebecca.
I just.
Speaker 2 (47:33):
Right, but for real,
though, it's like okay, it could
be so much worse.
Speaker 1 (47:38):
Yeah, and just look
on the bright side, I don't know
.
Speaker 2 (47:45):
No, it's not.
Look on the bright side?
Speaker 1 (47:46):
I don't know.
No, it's not.
Look on the bright side.
It's like, okay, the state ofour houses is morally neutral.
That's what I was sayingrecently.
I was like you know, this is.
I think that's why I feel suchshame is because I look at it
and I'm like this isn't me andit's not me.
It's literally like this is mymental illness and out on
display.
Speaker 2 (48:06):
That's the thing.
It's a mood board of yourmental illness and like you're
slowly changing that board out.
No, it's not again.
It's morally neutral, but it'slike it's a reflection of how
you're feeling on the inside andas like you've been getting
better and doing things like youcan tell the inside has been
healing because you're able todo more and more.
Yeah, that was so insightful.
That's like the one thing youget out of me today.
(48:28):
Okay, all right?
Speaker 1 (48:30):
well, let's wrap this
up then.
Speaker 2 (48:32):
All right, I'm super
proud of us no, but for real,
like I, yeah, I think you shouldbe proud.
I think you should be proud of,like, everything you've been
doing yeah, I am.
Speaker 1 (48:42):
I think I had like my
first moment.
I told you like after theweekend, or I was like in my
apartment and I thought I did doa lot.
I did a lot good job.
Speaker 2 (48:53):
Also, your fridge was
beautiful, like the beverage
situation alone and just howorganized it was.
I was like, okay, I want to dothat to my, so it's that's.
The other thing is like sharingyour things that you've done,
or your to-do, in addition tobody doubling, like it's
motivating to the other personwe used to do that.
Speaker 1 (49:10):
I forgot.
We haven't done that in a longtime yeah, or like, send you
pictures of, like, my drawersyeah, hey, I did my drawers, or
you just you'd even send me likea voice message and just be
like all right, well, I'mcleaning up my office today, I'm
organizing my drawers, andafter I'd listen to it, I'd be
like I should do something today, I should clean something.
Yes, yeah, maintained my willto live today.
Speaker 2 (49:31):
Check but yeah, it's
not like accountable in a bad
way, but just like and I'm notgoing to be disappointed if you
don't end up doing it, andyou're not going to be
disappointed if I don't end updoing it, but it's just like
camaraderie another thing Iwanted to say about domestic
blisters.
Speaker 1 (49:47):
I would love to have
her on the show.
By the way, I don't think shedoes like the house stuff as
much anymore, which is fine,that's her prerogative but like
I miss it because like I reallyloved how her.
What do you call it on tiktok,your channel, your account?
I don't know her channel whatdid the kids say?
(50:08):
dude, your hand creeped me thefuck out, because it literally
just came from like off screen.
Oh sorry, no, it's me, it's me.
I'm the problem, it's me, butno.
Another thing that she did oh,for like dishes.
She put a dish rack on hercounter to put her dirty dishes,
(50:31):
because she's like, I don't putthe dishes directly in the
dishwasher.
And, yes, people can be like,well, just put them directly in
the dishwasher.
But let me tell you that is nothow things work.
Things work.
And so she put a dish rack fordirty dishes where, throughout
the day, she would still I thinkshe would still throw
everything into the sink, butthen she would like take it out
(50:52):
of the sink and, if it need,needed rinsing, whatever, and
put them on the dirty dish rackso that when she loaded her
dishwasher, everything was likeset for her, so she could like
grab all the plates and like putthose in and then grab all the
silverware and put those in solike kind of like a restaurant.
Speaker 2 (51:06):
She's running it like
a restaurant kitchen.
Almost it sounds like yeah,maybe.
Speaker 1 (51:12):
Yeah, that's not a
bad idea, because that's I mean,
that's super yeah, instead oflike putting it on the thing and
like running it through, she'sputting it on the thing and just
loading the dishwasher.
Yeah, and my favorite thing isher song that she wrote on
ukulele, entitled you Can't Savethe Rainforest If You're
(51:35):
Depressed, because she would doTikToks, where she's like, hey,
you have that kind of like youwere talking about just throwing
the dishes out.
You have that Tupperware thathas had food in it for like
months and months and months inthe back of your fridge that you
find and it is disgusting.
You don't want to open itbecause you can only imagine
what it smells like.
And instead of having to gothrough that, she was like just
(52:01):
throw it out.
If you can't possibly deal withit, throw it away.
And then people were like thatis like such a waste and like
you really, first of all, that'splastic and like your
Tupperware, like your to storefood should be glass, maybe
(52:25):
important to celebrate our wins,which we also get when we share
our to-do's and body double.
Yes, because then you get like,even if you're doing the
smallest thing, you know, like Itook out a bag of trash today,
I took a giant box full of morebroken down boxes down to the
recycling today I had to say,though, I don't mind body
doubling you, but the moststressful day of my entire life
(52:45):
was when you thought you threwaway your keys in the garbage
bag and like no, not in thegarbage bag.
Speaker 2 (52:51):
I thought I actually
threw them in the dumpster in
the dumpster and like I washaving a silent meltdown because
I was like you were alreadyharried and I was trying to oh
god, I think I threw away mykeys, like I can't do this, I
can't, I can't, I can't, I can'tlike this is too much because I
was, so you didn't accidentallyhang up on me, then that was
(53:12):
like a purposeful you werefreshly showered and then you're
like I guess I'm gonna have toget in the dumpster.
I know, oh, I know but that'swhy.
Speaker 1 (53:19):
That's why that's why
I like didn't?
I like?
I like poked around a littlebit and I was like, okay, before
I literally like climb intothis the dump, first of all it
was empty.
So of course it's empty, right,actually, I guess maybe that's
a little better.
But I feel like if it was full,they would have like just
landed on top anyway.
And I was like, well, before Iget down into that dumpster,
(53:40):
after I just showered and I amfresh and clean, I I'm going to
go upstairs and just doublecheck that I didn't just leave
them somewhere, because that'ssomething I would do.
And thank God I went up and Ididn't see them at first and I
was freaking out, and then Ijust rounded a corner and there
they were.
Thank you, guys so much.
(54:00):
Please join our discord.
If you have not yet, the linkis on our, on our twitch.
Speaker 2 (54:07):
We love seeing you.
Speaker 1 (54:08):
We love hearing from
you yeah excited to see you
again next week it was good tobe back and I'm excited your bed
, drink your water eat yourincrustables.
I'm totally gonna have anincrustable right after this.
Guys not gonna lie.
The burnout collective ishosted by me, jamie young and me
, rebecca mccracken.
You can find all our episodesplus show notes at
(54:29):
burnoutcollectivecom follow thediscord link on our website to
join the burnout community.
Speaker 2 (54:35):
You can also find us
on tiktok and instagram if
you're interested in being aguest on a future episode or
have questions or feedback.