April 22, 2025 • 60 mins
This week we celebrated our 20th podcast episode! Proof even the most ADHD brains can, in fact, stick with things.
Earlier in the week, Jamie had a meltdown over the seemingly impossible job market. So, we wanted to discuss the struggles of finding a job (especially after being laid off). We talk about frustrations with current hiring practices, LinkedIn scammers, and the emotional toll of constant rejection.
To lighten the mood, we also share some job-hunting tips, emphasize the significance of negotiating salaries, and remind everyone that we DFWFF (f you know, you know).
Also, listen to both of us try to pronounce commensurate incorrectly multiple times without ever getting it right.
Mentioned in this episode
Have a suggestion for our next episode? A burnout story to share? Send us a text!
The Burnout Collective Podcast is hosted by Jamie Young and Rebecca McCracken. We’ve had every ounce of inspiration sucked out by years of startups and hustle culture, and we’re trying to reclaim our creativity. Join us and our guests as we explore how to restart and reenergize our brains. Every Thursday at 5pm PT, we stream live on twitch.tv/TheBurnoutCollective.
Join our Discord community: discord.gg/ZwBjbmVfAF
Follow us on Twitch and Subscribe: twitch.tv/theburnoutcollective
Follow us on our socials: linktr.ee/burnoutcollective
Music track: Snap Your Fingers by Aylex
Source: https://freetouse.com/music
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Rebecca (00:00):
You haven't reached eating Doritos in your underwear
Jamie (00:03):
I had, I literally had a mini bag of Doritos for
breakfast the other day at likenoon.
And then I didn't eat
Rebecca (00:09):
I stand, I stand so corrected.
I would like to, um, take backmy statement.
Jamie (00:15):
but we'll talk about that later.
Rebecca (00:17):
Withdrawn.
Nevermind.
Jamie (00:19):
Subscribe, to OnlyFans, please.
I am Jamie.
And I'm Rebecca.
Welcome to the BurnoutCollective.
Hello.
Rebecca (00:34):
Hi, welcome to episode 20.
We did it.
Jamie (00:41):
I know
Rebecca (00:42):
This is monumental.
Thank you guys for joining us.
Jamie (00:47):
Happy
Rebecca (00:47):
proud of us.
Jamie (00:48):
Thursday.
Happy Podcast Day, as we like tosay around here.
Oh, yep.
Rebecca was just saying like, ohmy God, episode 20.
Did you ever think we'd make ithere?
Much less episode five?
And I was like, no.
Rebecca (01:04):
Nope,
Jamie (01:05):
Yes.
It's almost the weekend, almost.
We're here to taunt you thatit's not quite the weekend, but
in case you weren't here lastweek, we announced, our
interview.
I should make it like a botcommand actually, so I can just,
whatever.
But here's our listen notesinterview, that we did, were a
(01:27):
very beloved sought afterpodcast and they were like, God,
we would love to interview you.
And we were like, I guess wehave the time.
but no, seriously, you don'talways hear, you don't always
hear from us why we do this andwhy we started this, and like
(01:48):
the main reason.
I think we kinda go into it wellthere.
So give it a read, give it askim.
we worked hard on it and Yeah.
You wanna let the people knowwhat they should join?
Rebecca (02:04):
Join the discard.
Jamie (02:05):
Join the
Rebecca (02:06):
we are there to help.
Look at your resumes.
We are there to commiserate.
We are there to share jobs thatare available if we know of any,
professionally network,personally network.
If you need a body, double, ifyou need an alibi.
all of these and more on ourdiscard
Jamie (02:22):
On the discard.
and next week, for episode 21.
Do you wanna
Rebecca (02:28):
If all goes well, we'll be joined by Morgan Smith.
Leonard, who was, my colleague,a few years ago.
She's super fucking smart.
She was in recruiting in hr.
She's very much a people person.
Very much an extrovert and somuch fun to talk to.
Jamie (02:43):
We love smart bitches.
Rebecca (02:46):
She really is.
Really is.
Jamie (02:49):
Yeah.
And we're looking to get, moreguests, scheduled soon.
We have a couple on the horizonyet, but also if you wanna be a
guest or if either of us hasasked you about being a guest at
some point, or if we haven't andyou're interested, please reach
out to us, let us know.
we want a variety, or if, youknow, if you're like, oh my God,
(03:11):
I follow this person on socialmedia, and they're always
talking about mental health orburnout or whatever, make
suggestions, like who you might
Rebecca (03:20):
Mm-hmm.
Jamie (03:21):
hear, like what would be interesting for you anyway.
Yeah,
Rebecca (03:26):
Yeah,
Jamie (03:29):
So, today was supposed to be an episode on spring
cleaning, or Swedish deathcleaning.
And I had a minty bee yesterday.
I think that's the first timeI've ever said minty bee.
I've been watching too muchTikTok, and cried to Rebecca for
(03:51):
20 minutes on video, on a videocall.
Because of just the state of thejob market and job searching.
And it's been like this for awhile, obviously.
but it's been rough.
And I also know a lot of peoplewho also got laid off that are
still looking for work andeveryone's having a really
(04:15):
fucking tough time.
And so I was like, we need totalk about this tomorrow in my
like crying rage.
And Rebecca was like, oh, maybewe should just play a game or
something.
We don't have to do the showtomorrow.
if you're, and I was like, no,we're doing this.
'cause I wanna talk about it.
Yeah, so we just wanted to talkabout it more.
'cause we know a lot of peoplethat are going through this.
(04:38):
What's happening?
so let's get into it.
Rebecca (04:41):
all of our outline is just all caps and me
transposing.
What you were saying yesterday,
Jamie (04:45):
know, I realized that 'cause I didn't read the outline
'cause I was just like cryingand raging and Rebecca's like,
okay, I'm making the outline.
You know?
And like I didn't look at ituntil today.
Like I.
Probably like 30 or 40 minutesago.
And I pull, I pull it up and itliterally is all caps, it ends
with a bullet that is in allcaps that just says, I fucking
hate everything.
(05:05):
And that's what I said.
Rebecca (05:07):
verbatim basic what.
Jamie (05:11):
direct quote.
Direct quote.
yeah.
imposter syndrome is real.
it's real period, even when youhave a job, right?
But it gets bad when you'researching for a job.
And not only are you, listen,I've been doing what I've been,
when I've been doing for closingin on 15 years, 14, 15 years.
(05:35):
I've been in the space for along time.
I'm an expert.
I've been doing, editing andwriting in the personal finance
space for that long and managingand leading.
And it just is insane whenyou've been doing some, it's
insane, period, but it's insanewhen you've been doing something
for so long.
And I think I definitely took itfor granted that I was like,
(06:01):
'cause I've been laid offbefore, but I got laid off when
I got laid off the first time.
That was, obviously of coursehorrible and out of the blue,
but like I got scooped up sofast.
Rebecca (06:13):
Mm-hmm.
Jamie (06:13):
layoff because of everything, please go back and
listen to our episode aboutlayoffs in which I announced
that I was laid off that week,which was great.
I, at first was very welcomingof the layoff because of all the
stress and moral injury that wasgoing on and, you know, burnout.
(06:34):
and so I did take a couplemonths there, there were a
couple, not full months, butlike a couple months here and
there where like I didn't do alot, I didn't look a lot for
jobs because I needed that breakto repair my mental health.
Rebecca (06:48):
I, while you were talking just a thought with your
imposter syndrome that I wantedto go back to, just, I wanted to
see, and so I just did a quickGoogle search and in March of,
you know, last month, theeconomy only had 228,000 new
jobs.
They only added 2200 28,000 newjobs, and the current
unemployment rate is 7.1million.
(07:11):
So, despite my career inpersonal finance, I can't do the
math on those odds, but I dothink those are pretty bad odds.
So
Jamie (07:19):
Can we get a numbers guy in here?
Can we get a numbers guy in hereto do that math?
Rebecca (07:23):
I'm just saying it's imposter syndrome, but like when
you look at the actual math, youare, you're, you're playing the
lottery essentially,
Jamie (07:31):
You are
Rebecca (07:32):
right?
it's a, it's, you're playing thelottery at this point.
so I.
Jamie (07:37):
and a lot of people in our industry too, like, I mean,
not like this show is not allabout me being laid off
obviously, but like a lot ofpeople in our industry were laid
off like all at the same timeand like in succession as well.
So that makes it more difficultbecause everybody's looking for
the same type of job andapplying to the same places.
(07:57):
And I know everyone that gotlaid off with me on my team and
the other team that was laid offat the same time, like they're
all great.
They're all super talented.
They're They've all been doingthis for a while, just like me,
So it's like everybody'squalified.
Rebecca (08:14):
It is, you have like a, if I, we need this, right?
Like a out of 1,775 people.
that's the pool of people you'reup against essentially for those
odds.
Roughly.
that's a shit ton of people.
Jamie (08:26):
Yeah.
Rebecca (08:27):
And if you're in a niche industry like ours, and
it's so small,
Jamie (08:31):
It doesn't feel small though, like, I mean, I guess it
is, but
Rebecca (08:36):
I mean it's really, it's a specialized one.
So it's, it's not general likeediting.
So there's more competition Ithink.
But the fact you're up againstthat many people,
Jamie (08:46):
in that.
Yeah.
Rebecca (08:47):
that's
Jamie (08:49):
yeah, it's insane, crazy.
It's, it feels bad man, and Iknow everybody else that's
looking for a job feels thesame.
And there, and then there arepeople that are laid off looking
for jobs still.
And then there are also peoplethat are at the companies that
had the layoffs, that arelooking, that are looking for
(09:11):
jobs, even though they're stillthere because they know like,
okay, my time's probably comingsoon.
And
Rebecca (09:16):
And it goes on for date, like you were saying, it's
been what, four months?
Jamie (09:24):
Yeah, it's about four months now, I think.
Going on five actually.
Rebecca (09:27):
Yeah.
And the longest I've beenunemployed was nine months, and
it felt like years.
It felt like years and years.
So I mean it's four months,objectively.
But on an unemployed timescale,
Jamie (09:41):
Yeah.
Rebecca (09:43):
it's insane.
Jamie (09:45):
I've been unemployed between roles and yet definitely
was one of the most lower timesin my life.
Yeah, it's bad.
It's bad.
I just lost my train of thoughtnow'cause I got distracted.
Rebecca (09:58):
You have purpose when you're working and then when
you're, suddenly you havenothing to do because despite
capitalism, your job is you havea purpose.
You go, you do your task, andlike that's what you need to get
up for every morning when youdon't have a job.
What is the fucking point?
Jamie (10:15):
It's like
Rebecca (10:15):
What are you supposed to do?
Jamie (10:17):
Except Wallow.
Rebecca (10:20):
Yeah.
And ideally it's like, I usethis time to garden and better
myself.
And it's like, no, I
Jamie (10:24):
Oh my God.
It's like covid.
It's like Covid.
When everyone was like, Ilearned this new skill.
Rebecca (10:31):
It's like your mini covid.
You're basically in quarantineon your own.
'cause you can't really spendmoney.
You can't go out because money'stight and you have to think
about everything constantly.
Oh god.
Jamie (10:44):
But also I did learn new skills.
'cause like we started apodcast, I don't know if you
know this, it's called theBurnout Collective.
Everyone making sourdough again.
Yeah.
yeah, I didn't learn anythingnew.
Like, I thought that I wouldcompletely repair like my mental
(11:05):
health and like my, I did.
I was like, I was like, this isgreat.
I'll take a break.
I'm gonna fix everything becauseI'm not gonna have to deal with
Rebecca (11:16):
I know,
Jamie (11:16):
a toxic job for a month and a half, two months.
And that didn't
Rebecca (11:23):
but also having to repair your mental health in
gestures.
Vaguely.
All of this fucking impossible.
Jamie (11:30):
yeah.
And then it got worse too.
'cause I was laid off, let'ssee, I was told that I was being
laid off in October, but we,
Rebecca (11:38):
Ugh.
Jamie (11:39):
they kept us on for October and then they also kept
us on the payroll for November.
Technically.
Um, we, we did nothing.
Like we, everyone was justlooking for jobs at that time.
And so it was also like, laidoff during the holidays.
Nobody's
Rebecca (11:55):
what I would've done during that time?
I would've gone through my slackand just to see who's actually
reading and can HR see what I'mputting in here?
Just for fun to see like whatwould happen,
Jamie (12:05):
I mean, yeah, I didn't do that.
I didn't do that.
I felt like they're not, theyweren't, because I know some
people that were kind of doingthat and nothing happened.
but yeah.
Rebecca (12:22):
But I mean, even though you were on the payroll, like if
you still aren't working, Imean, it's like you're getting a
preview of it and
Jamie (12:30):
Yeah.
And so I went hard then whenlike everyone, we all got laid
off.
We were all like trying to helpeach other and we're still
trying to help each other.
We still share jobs andeverything.
but, and then for December, Ijust had some I, like, I, I just
had, I had some plans and sodidn't really look, didn't
really look in December andnothing was going on.
(12:51):
that's when it was the absoluteworst was
Rebecca (12:53):
No one's
Jamie (12:53):
January, even in February.
I think it started to pick up alittle bit in February, but
barely, and it has started topick up.
I have noticed that.
So I guess there's that.
However, like when you see, andI'm sure I've mentioned this
before, so sorry if I'm a brokenrecord, but when you're like,
(13:15):
oh, hey, this sounds good.
I'm gonna apply for this job,and then you see that it was
posted eight hours ago and thenit's already saying no longer
accepting applications.
It's are you fucking kidding me?
You posted this at six in themorning and now this afternoon
you're like, oh no, done.
We got too many.
It.
What, how are you gonna trustthat you've got the right person
(13:38):
for this job by only leaving itup for that long?
that's insane to me, as a hiringmanager, as somebody who's been
a hiring manager often, like,that's not, that's not gonna do
it.
Rebecca (13:54):
No.
And again, that speaks to thatpool of 7.1 million if jobs are
filled up at capacity, as far ashow many applicants they can
take in that many hours.
Jamie (14:07):
Yeah, I think the problem is in that amount of time,
they're getting like a thousand.
Oh yeah.
No, I know.
I absolutely know why they doit, but I don't know.
I've worked at companies and nocompanies that like, they don't
do that.
They're not like, oh no, we getthis record number of
(14:28):
applications we gotta stop.
Rebecca (14:30):
Also, what if your dream employee is on vacation at
the moment and doesn't see itwhen it goes up?
Like
Jamie (14:34):
well it's literally like, unless you're there looking at
it.
I think we talked about thiswith Alyssa and she said unless
you're there looking at it, themoment it goes up, basically
like the day it goes up.
So it's like finding a job'salready a full-time fucking job,
except you don't get anythingout of it and you're not getting
(14:54):
paid for it.
Rebecca (14:56):
As a hiring manager, how many of those applicants are
someone from like, I don't know,KFC, and is like, I'm looking to
be an editorial manager.
'cause we've had those before.
I had one guy who worked as likeat an extermination company,
apply for a job recently.
Like how many of those slots arethen being filled up and you
totally lose out on the chanceand because they've shut it
(15:18):
down, but then they have to siftthrough all that bullshit.
So like it
Jamie (15:21):
Well, and then,
Rebecca (15:22):
close it?
Jamie (15:23):
yeah, are they gonna open it again?
if they're smart, I think theywould open it back up.
But if they were truly smart, Idon't think they should have
closed it
Rebecca (15:31):
No.
Jamie (15:32):
but then on the other hand, there are tons of
companies that are leaving themopen forever after they've
gotten, after they've filled therole.
It's just like
Rebecca (15:44):
be someone better.
Jamie (15:46):
we have all these articles out there, like seven
interview tips, you know?
And like how to land your next,like your next new favorite job
and like stuff like that.
But it's like where the fuckingarticles that are like, Hey, you
stupid ass hiring managers.
And it's not all hiringmanagers.
I can't blame it all on them.
(16:06):
Hey, recruiters, and sometimesif it's a smaller company and
you have one of those, it'slike, Hey, yeah, idiot s s not
S-E-O-C-E-O.
Like this isn't working, this iswhat you should do.
These things you're doing arered flags.
Don't do those things.
Don't, don't.
Rebecca (16:25):
would you prefer like a more rigorous process?
So like if, if they left it uplonger and like maybe to weed
out the people, like would youprefer to give more information
on the go around, like the firstgo around then?
if you had to put in a littlebit more extra work?
Because a lot of times they'reasking, they're, they're using
software like AI to sort throughand so they could probably
(16:46):
better narrow it down and have acloser match if like you did a
little bit more work up front.
Jamie (16:52):
Yeah, I mean,
Rebecca (16:54):
But that's still time.
Jamie (16:56):
that's fine and I'm willing to do that.
I've done that.
I've done, we've all done that.
We've done ridiculous shit
Rebecca (17:02):
Yeah.
Jamie (17:02):
one of, one of my new favorite things and a red flag
to me that I was telling Rebeccaabout is like, um, I see this
all over for different gigs andI do kind of understand if it's
like a social media gig for likea big company, like if it's like
Microsoft or something like, andthey're hiring like a social
(17:25):
media director or like adirector role.
I can understand this, but foranything else, I can't.
I was looking at like freelancewriting jobs where they were
asking me to also submit a twominute video introducing myself,
and I'm like, I'm not workingfor you full time.
I'm not doing anything where I'mgonna be on video.
Rebecca (17:48):
Mm-hmm.
Jamie (17:49):
Like, the biggest thing that you and I talked about is
that introduces bias.
First of all, I know I'm a whitewoman, but like for other, for
people of color, like thatintroduces such a fucking bias.
And it can also introduce biasfor people who don't know how to
record videos or what to use andaren't using the right lighting
(18:11):
or the right software.
And it's this isn't a video jobor
Rebecca (18:16):
There was an actor during Covid who was auditioning
online, I forget his name, butlike he was doing it in his
house and they thought they hadmuted and they were basically
like, look at his shitholehouse, and he could hear them.
So that's for an acting job.
So you know for sure someone'sgonna be like, look at her
shithole house, or look at like,they have nothing on the walls.
And judge you based on that,when you could be the best
fucking person to work there.
Jamie (18:37):
Yeah.
And it's and sometimes we don'teven know it.
So like, these can be peoplethat like, maybe they are nice
people, but in their heads,they're like, oh, I just didn't
like her.
but really they were thinkingabout, my like messy ass,
ridiculous background.
Um, it's, fucked up.
Rebecca (18:56):
It's immediate bias, like guaranteed it's immediate
bias.
Let us look at you andautomatically judge a book by
its fucking cover right now thatit is.
That's what it is.
We're judging you by your cover.
Jamie (19:06):
Which like they get to do when I get on a video interview
with them anyway.
But I also wonder like all theextra information, like that
video or anything or like whenthey're like,
Rebecca (19:20):
Oh, they're stealing your ideas,
Jamie (19:21):
yeah, write an example, blah, blah, blah for us and
we're not gonna pay
Rebecca (19:25):
right?
As an entire marketing plan, andalso like a social media
campaign for 2025 and 2026.
Thanks.
Jamie (19:33):
created whole, yeah.
I've created a whole likecontent calendar slash marketing
plan for people before anddidn't get paid for it.
And what is our rule, Rebecca?
Rebecca (19:45):
We don't fucking work for
Jamie (19:46):
We don't fucking work for free.
And everyone remember that?
Don't work for free.
Rebecca (19:52):
You can ask me.
Paid for the work you do whenyou're applying for jobs,
though, like that is absolutelyreasonable and not in an Amazon
gift card either.
Jamie (20:02):
D-F-W-F-F don't work for fucking free.
'Cause that has fucked me onpromotions at different jobs
that we've talked about on thisshow.
oh, you want me to do this newrole with double the
responsibility.
Cool.
What's the paying increase?
All you care about is money.
Like why is it all money to you?
You should just be happy to dowhat?
(20:23):
No, it doesn't work like that.
And it definitely doesn't worklike that when I'm looking for a
job because I have no money.
Rebecca (20:30):
Yeah.
Also, if you want me to try outa job, then like transition me
for like from my current job,take over my duties and then
gimme the space where like I canshow you what I can do.
Jamie (20:40):
yeah.
Rebecca (20:42):
Don't make me do two jobs.
it's,
Jamie (20:46):
Yeah.
Rebecca (20:46):
Not getting the best outta people.
Jamie (20:48):
Yeah, Pat says Interviews are why I am hesitant about
dyeing my hair or painting mynails.
Yeah.
maybe I should be hesitant aboutthat, but honestly, no one even
emails me back.
I haven't even been getting anyinterviews.
I haven't had an interview in amonth and a half.
And out of the, I don't know, Iwanna say thousands at this
(21:10):
point, but maybe I'm over doingit at least hundreds of
applications that I have turnedin, like three, maybe four
interviews.
I think it was three sinceNovember.
And that's unlike.
Everyone else doesn't reply.
Might all cancel on me.
Yeah, there's that.
I've had that, but mostly I justdon't get a reply.
(21:34):
I don't get a, sorry.
We filled a role.
I do.
I have gotten some, which Iappreciate.
I'm like, thank you.
thank you for being a good game.
I like, I always email them backand thank them because
Rebecca (21:43):
Thank you for not being an asshole and being a decent
human fucking being.
Jamie (21:46):
yeah, it's so difficult and I feel like everybody, like
I go on LinkedIn and everybody'stalking about this.
Everybody's like, I've been laidoff just like all of my
colleagues and blah, blah, blah.
And this is happening.
I'm trying to think of like theother red flags.
Obviously, we're like a familyhere.
Rebecca (22:06):
Oh, we're not putting any information about anything
that's going on with us.
We're not disabled.
We are straight as an arrow.
We are not your business skincolor like we are.
I'm not disclosing shit aboutshit.
It's all, no, I'm not, becausethat, you know, with all the DEI
(22:27):
anti DEI bullshit that'shappening under this fucking
asshole
Jamie (22:32):
Mm-hmm.
Rebecca (22:33):
guarantee you people would like start looking for
that and be like, no.
Anything with a yes on that.
They'd be like, absolutely not.
It's just, and it gives thempermission to, and you know that
they're gonna be doing that.
And I wanna say I'm, I wish Icouldn't be as cynical as I am,
but you know, that's what'shappening.
Jamie (22:50):
Yeah.
And it's just so hard.
And like even, because like, youknow, when you went through
this, when you were laid off forso long, like I was there for
that while you were laid off andjust like seeing many other
people close to me, like Pat,you know, like go through
layoffs and deal with it.
(23:11):
Like Alyssa, like
Rebecca (23:13):
Yeah.
You haven't reached eatingDoritos in your underwear
Jamie (23:18):
I had, I literally had a mini bag of Doritos for
breakfast the other day at likenoon.
And then I didn't eat
Rebecca (23:24):
I stand, I stand so corrected.
I would like to, um, take backmy statement.
Jamie (23:32):
but we'll talk about that later.
Rebecca (23:34):
Withdrawn.
Nevermind.
Jamie (23:37):
Subscribe, to OnlyFans, please.
I don't care if they're beingdicks about that.
I don't wanna work there anyway.
See, and that's how I feel andthat's how I usually feel.
But then at the same time I'mlike, I need a job.
Rebecca (23:48):
to pay rent.
Jamie (23:49):
I'm like, I need a job.
and I think I've been putting myinterest in DEI and SGM
initiatives on there still andtelling them about disability.
Rebecca (23:59):
Yes, pat.
That is the right way to think.
I am just being cynical andfacetious at that point, but
yes, absolutely.
You shouldn't be hiding.
You shouldn't be doing any ofthis.
You should be who you are.
I'm proud of it.
And not treat it like it's adeficit.
And I wish things were likethat.
I really do.
Jamie (24:15):
yeah, it's just unfortunate with how
everything's panning out andthat just makes, that just makes
everything a lot worse too.
'cause like I just, I don'tknow, go to my website, like
read my resume, go to mywebsite.
Like I spent a lot of time andeffort and thought in really
going over like what I'm lookingfor in a job.
(24:36):
What, and the cover letters Isend too, I'm stopping on like
the cover letter part of it alittle bit.
if they don't ask for it.
Rebecca (24:43):
Oh
Jamie (24:44):
but yeah, it's
Rebecca (24:45):
'cause we don't read them.
No one reads them, you knowthat.
No one reads them.
Jamie (24:49):
and that's what I think with the videos too.
I'm like, what are they doing?
Are they like sitting in aconference room, like laughing
at everyone's stupid videos?
Because these aren't people thatare doing videos.
These are fucking freelancewriters.
Rebecca (25:02):
Yep.
It's like the fucking coliseumat this point.
Like we're just, you're pittedagainst each other and they're
just sitting back and watchingand laughing.
Jamie (25:12):
what was it, who was I talking to that they said.
Oh, I won't name names because Idon't know, but an old colleague
of mine, was applying for a joband they basically were like,
they told them, Hey, it'sactually a hard decision right
now between you and this othercandidate.
Can you come in again, like inperson and have a little chat
(25:34):
with us as well?
And then they had to do allthese little extra things pitted
against this person.
And they literally like saidthat, I've never had that
before, where they were like,we're really trying to decide
between you and this otherperson.
What can you tell us or show usthat like you, they ended up
getting the job and they do likeit and I'm thankful, but that's
(25:55):
so fucked up.
That's so fucked up to
Rebecca (25:57):
That feels like that's illegal,
Jamie (25:58):
Yeah.
Rebecca (25:59):
and I know I'm gonna be disappointed and be like, yeah,
technically companies can dothat, but that feels like
something that should beillegal.
Jamie (26:05):
Jamie, you have the
Rebecca (26:06):
your opponent for this
Jamie (26:07):
Yeah.
Marina says that I have thebenefit of having a gender
neutral name.
They have no gender bias untilthey talk to you or Google you.
Yeah, but like until theinterview, you know?
Rebecca (26:19):
No.
Oh God dammit.
It was a woman.
Jamie (26:22):
Yeah.
Rebecca (26:22):
Fuck.
It's a girl, Jamie.
We wanted the boy one.
Jamie (26:25):
And not even, it doesn't even have to be a video
interview.
if I do the HR slash recruiterscreen on the phone, I think I
sound like a woman.
Maybe sometimes I don't.
Rebecca (26:34):
You know someone out there hiring manager calls it
Girl Jamie, and boy Jamie whenthey're like, which one do you
think this one is?
Girl, Jamie or boy Jamie.
Fucking assholes.
Jamie (26:42):
Pat said I've had a good run.
I'll live under the bridge if itmeans I'm done letting the
angry, bigoted people keepstomping on shit.
Yeah.
and that's what's hard too, islike I respect the shit out of
that.
And I feel the same way whereI'm like, we talk about this
podcast even we won't put it onour LinkedIn and we tell people
(27:03):
not to share anything about thison LinkedIn because what we
Rebecca (27:09):
And you're like, our followers.
I know, but it's like ourfollowers are really low and
we're like, don't share this.
Anyway.
Jamie (27:14):
Yeah, no, just on LinkedIn.
Rebecca (27:19):
I know.
Jamie (27:20):
and it's but the fucked up thing is, is like both of us
have learned so many new skillsand gained so many skills from
doing this.
And I think that makes me moremarketable, for example.
But I'm still kind of afraidthat somebody is going to listen
to an episode and I'm sure somepeople do that I apply for, but
(27:41):
is gonna listen to episode andlike not get the context or just
listen to a clip of it or.
Maybe listen to our episodeabout Zuckubus and just be like,
what?
and so I wanna say, you knowwhat, but fuck'em.
Because if they're gonna listento this show and see, and really
(28:02):
see what we're about and likewhy we're talking about this
stuff, I would love to hire aperson like that.
To me, that's very like,commendable.
Rebecca (28:11):
Listen, I do Google Us, like at, I'm doing it right now.
I'm googling us like once amonth to see if our, if it's
been crawled by Google yet, likeour, podcast Buzz Sprout page to
see if it comes up.
I am on page three, and so farwe're golden.
So
Jamie (28:30):
Am I on
Rebecca (28:30):
that's the good news.
Jamie (28:31):
am I on?
What page am I on?
Google Food?
Rebecca?
Rebecca (28:34):
See, there are two, usually you don't come up at all
Do you know what I mean?
Like it's, there's a lot ofJamie Young's out there, like a
ton of them, so it's likethere's a bunch of lamps.
Yeah.
So they're like, I can't evenget to you.
Usually it's just random.
Jamie's so good name.
Jamie (28:52):
Good name.
Good name.
But no, it's like I, I actuallywould love to put this on my
resume.
I would love to put this onLinkedIn, but I still don't, and
I'm still hesitant because Iknow some people will be like,
oh, we're not hiring her now.
And I'm like, I don't wanna workfor those people.
'cause those people are, I.
Judgy and they don't get it.
(29:13):
And they're gonna be the type ofpeople who work me into the
ground and have a toxicenvironment and don't have a,
have good leaders.
And I don't wanna work for thosepeople.
But at the same time, I'm like,but I need a job and I need
money.
So let's still hide, notcompletely hide, but I do kind
of like hide that from the workworld.
(29:33):
Like I don't apply to a placeunless it's a place that my
skills from the podcasts likewould
Rebecca (29:40):
Mm-hmm.
Jamie (29:42):
like go toward.
and I feel comfortable.
I don't share that usually.
I don't share that we do thiseven though this is something
that I'm like, this is probably,this is like one of the things
in my life that I'm like themost proud of.
And I love it.
And it fills me up and it makesme feel good.
And I love sharing this witheverybody, even when we're just
(30:02):
commiserating.
Like
Rebecca (30:05):
Mm-hmm.
Jamie (30:05):
it's a, it's a lot.
Rebecca (30:07):
It's like having that kid in Victorian times that you
couldn't really talk about.
Maybe it was like your cousinfucked you or something and you
had a kid, so you had hide himin a wall, but you loved him
deeply.
You just couldn't acknowledgehim
Jamie (30:17):
yes, Rebecca, it is exactly like that.
Rebecca (30:20):
Exactly like that.
Jamie (30:22):
Jesus
Rebecca (30:23):
I'm so proud of my metaphors.
Jamie (30:26):
Paper says, when I talk, I don't have an accent and I
have a pretty white first name.
I can tell some people's tonechange when I say my last name,
which gives away my background.
Yeah.
Rebecca (30:37):
Yep.
Jamie (30:38):
oh, and Pat, I can, I can't read this.
'cause I remember talking aboutthis with Pat.
Pat sent this job description,and at the top it said, read
this first.
Stop reading.
If you are a selfish, lazy,sloppy, rude content, dishonest
or negative, you won't make itpast the first interview.
So that's the first part.
This is a job description.
(30:59):
We are unashamedly looking for.
I dotting t crossing, takingcare of business bosses who dive
on a grenade for their buddy.
Pick up the ball, go get the wholding the rally flag in the
other hand and leading the team.
You've had a job, you've had agrind.
Come find a refining battle.
(31:19):
Like this doesn't, this doesn'teven make sense as like
Rebecca (31:21):
Would you allow me to be the translator please?
On this one?
Could I translate what thismeans?
Jamie (31:26):
Oh yeah.
Rebecca (31:27):
Hi, we are looking for a child who we can pay$12 an
hour.
Who will stay here until 3:00 AMDo all the fucking work.
Take the blame when we get drunkduring the weekend and forget to
do our work and then make you doit.
And then we're like, oh, no.
What happened?
someone we can kick aroundinsult, make you feel as, as
possible, all while a shit smileon your face because you need
(31:47):
this job and we fucking know it.
get down on your knees.
Fucking slave.
Let's go.
Jamie (31:51):
Yeah, we're a family.
Rebecca (31:54):
Oh, but like, we're a family here and we have a keg,
Jamie (31:57):
this is like the, it's come find a refining
battleground where you defeatthe worst versions of yourself
to become better.
Rebecca (32:05):
AKA, we will peel the skin from your body if you fuck
up.
One more thing,
Jamie (32:10):
Does this fucking douche Brett douche Bag tech bro, know
that like he is the worstversion of myself.
Rebecca (32:19):
Jamie, you couldn't even reach that level of.
Jamie (32:24):
This is like, I mean, it sounds like a kid wrote it like
this sounds like a child wroteit.
Rebecca (32:29):
It sounds like one of those Gwyneth Paltrow girl boss
gaslight gatekeeper goopbullshit
Jamie (32:34):
This, this sounds like every white male, uh, uh, tech
bro, CEO at a startup.
Rebecca (32:48):
I worked so hard.
I had asked my dad for money.
Jamie (32:51):
We have snacks and drinks in the kitchen.
Did you see that real I sent youtoday on Instagram?
Rebecca (32:58):
yes.
Also, the, these are the men whosay that their grandparent
grandpa was in World War ii.
But then don't say what side?
Those guys.
Jamie (33:07):
it's those guys.
It's those guys.
Rebecca (33:09):
Oh, my grandfather was in the Army.
Which one?
Um,
Jamie (33:12):
Thank you for sharing that, pat.
That was, it was Chef's Kiss.
That was, it's great.
Yeah.
Pat shared that with me and Iwas like, is this real?
Like this doesn't even, thisdoesn't even seem real.
Rebecca (33:24):
if you are hit by a bus, your, that job post will be
up before you're cold.
Like they do not give a fuck.
Jamie (33:32):
It's like you're supposed to give your everything as if
you already have a job at theseplaces to get a job with these
places, but they don't give ashit.
You're literally just a drop inthe what?
7 million jobless
Rebecca (33:47):
7.1 million.
You're going to, you're gonnafeel like the cum rag We think
you are,
Jamie (33:52):
What are you
Rebecca (33:53):
you're just disposable to them.
These jobs are just insane.
And also you're not gonna getpaid shit.
The dive on the grenade part isconcerning.
'cause that sounds like, takethe fucking blame,
Jamie (34:02):
it does.
It's yeah, I would dive on agrenade for my buddy, but you're
not my buddy.
Like you're my CEO, you're mymanager.
Like,
Rebecca (34:12):
Mm-hmm.
God,
Jamie (34:16):
yeah.
Rebecca (34:16):
on a fucking grenade.
Stop at nothing.
Jamie (34:19):
It sounds like a child wrote it.
this is whatever.
I have a lot of feelings on thisthat I don't need to completely
elaborate on over and over.
but yeah, it's ridiculous.
And and then the fact that mostof us just don't hear anything
back is, or get canceled on orget ghosted.
Get ghosted.
Like, I've had recruiters reachout to me wanting to recruit me
(34:42):
and
Rebecca (34:43):
scammed.
you've
Jamie (34:44):
send Oh yeah.
And there's scams.
I forgot about the scams.
There's also scams all over theplace.
what was that?
Was that girl's email?
Rebecca (34:52):
Oh, so I got to watch this real time.
Jamie got a, Jamie got like thisreal spammy thing on LinkedIn
and I was just watching herrespond and trying to get
information outta this woman.
And this woman was like, sendit.
And James was like, no, you sendme.
And she would just try to getlike your email and then you'd
try to get hers and she, it wasinsane.
Jamie (35:10):
Yeah.
no, she didn't even want myemail.
She just wanted to chat with meon LinkedIn and have me like,
give her all this informationabout myself
Rebecca (35:17):
It's just, what the fuck?
And you just spent 15 minutes ofyour time.
I know you're playing around,but just like for the people who
are getting scammed, that's timethat you could be
Jamie (35:27):
Yeah.
And like some people that don'tknow that they're like, they
don't like, I'm not calling themstupid, but some people are
maybe new to LinkedIn.
Rebecca (35:35):
no.
I didn't.
I didn't mean, I mean like sham,like fuck the scammers'cause
that's Okay.
Good.
I was not
Jamie (35:40):
no, I was saying like, I'm not, I'm just saying some
people don't know.
and some people just would belike, oh, okay, yes, here's my
resume.
And like, yes, of course there'snothing wrong with giving people
your resume per se, but there'salso a lot of people trying to
tweak their AI recruiters or
Rebecca (36:01):
Ugh.
Jamie (36:01):
that they're trying to make money off of with personal
information and informationabout people.
So just don't trust that, justbe safe out there because it's
insane how people are trying toscam people that are already
having such a hard, horribletime and just need a job.
(36:23):
It's really fucking unfortunateif you're a hiring manager.
Oh.
Oh my God.
Hi Torah.
Rebecca (36:33):
Oh Torah.
Thank you.
Jamie (36:35):
for the sub.
They've subscribed for fivemonths.
Oh, thank you Torah.
You're the best.
I love you.
We love you.
Hope you're doing
Rebecca (36:44):
I have in all caps here, who do they even think
they are?
That was one of the shrieks.
You Shrieked applies
Jamie (36:51):
is that why you called it shriek something?
Because I was just shrieking.
Yeah.
It's accurate.
Yeah.
Rebecca (37:00):
do they even think they are?
Jamie (37:02):
Who do they even think they are?
But it's just please hiringmanagers.
Please.
Like common courtesy.
think back to when like you werelooking for a job.
Think just like be human.
I don't know.
Just be human.
Rebecca (37:18):
Faan Didn't their daddy got them that job?
They didn't
Jamie (37:21):
No, not everybody.
I was a hiring manager andyou're a hiring manager or
daddies didn't get us jobs.
Rebecca (37:29):
That's true.
That's a good point.
Um.
Jamie (37:31):
Like I'm not saying that all of, I'm not saying all these
people are bad people.
I'm just saying that there arebad people and I think when you
like have a job and you're ahiring manager and you're
sifting through thousands ofapplications, like sometimes
your brain is just Ugh, this isjust a thing I have to do.
This is another meeting I haveon my calendar.
(37:53):
And I get that.
I've been there like it does,it's a lot, but make sure that
these people get responses.
Don't send a, sorry.
We filled the position monthsafter you've filled it.
Even like, just,
Rebecca (38:11):
Oh yeah.
Jamie (38:11):
us back.
Rebecca (38:13):
it was you, was it after you got laid off and then
you got a response to a job likeyou had applied for while you
were employed?
do you remember that?
It was just like, it had beenmonths and then it was like, oh
yeah, sorry.
And you're like, oh, I appliedto this.
it's like it was so long ago,you totally forgot what it was.
Jamie (38:31):
yeah.
Yeah, it's beyond rude.
Rebecca (38:35):
Oh, and then you get follow up emails being like,
Hey, how is the hiring process?
And can you give us five star
Jamie (38:42):
I was excited.
Remember?
I was like, oh, let me tell youabout the
Rebecca (38:45):
I dunno.
Jamie (38:45):
But then I went in and it was just like,
Rebecca (38:49):
It did.
It was like one through five.
Jamie (38:51):
yeah.
And then I didn't have an achance to like, say anything.
I was like, okay, this sucks.
Come
Rebecca (38:59):
Oh, we didn't, we don't like actually care.
Jamie (39:01):
have a, yeah, have a have a better form because I wanna
read you for filth.
Come here.
Come here.
Rebecca (39:06):
mm-hmm.
Come here.
Just come here close.
Yeah.
that one was probably the worstI've ever seen.
Jamie (39:15):
yeah.
Rebecca (39:17):
Oh, wait.
When you do apply for the job, Igot to witness this in real time
yesterday.
You pulled from you uploadedyour resume and it's supposed to
pull in and pre-fill the formfor you with like, it introduced
errors
Jamie (39:32):
that,
Rebecca (39:32):
your,
Jamie (39:33):
yeah.
Rebecca (39:35):
if you hadn't caught that, if you hadn't been like,
that looks weird,
Jamie (39:37):
If I wasn't an editor I probably wouldn't have caught
that.
Rebecca (39:40):
you'll look like an idiot.
And you would've been out ofthat chance for the job just
based on that.
there was letters where theyshouldn't be, words were broken
up.
Jamie (39:50):
to be fair, I mean I know those are still around, but I
have not seen that.
Usually people are just like,here, upload your resume here.
Or you can put it in plain text.
That's it.
That's perfect.
'cause I can give you what I'vecreated in PDF form or I can
just type it in.
I guess that's more the type inis more like the cover letter or
(40:10):
whatever.
but this company, which is ahuge company by the way, giant
Ask Company, they do it whereyou upload your resume and then
like Rebecca said, it pulls itinto a form and not only did it
introduce errors with theformatting and it fucked it all
up, made it look weird, which asan editor, I'm like, I have to
fix this now.
(40:30):
it introduced, which I can't, Istill can't figure out how, but
it introduced typos.
Rebecca (40:36):
Yeah.
Jamie (40:37):
There were typos that it had introduced.
Into my resume that it pulled onthis form.
And so I had to go in and I hadto change everything and fix
everything.
Rebecca (40:47):
After you had a panic attack and you're like, oh my
God, is my resume wrong?
Jamie (40:50):
I know.
I was like, you were, I waslike, I can't have that typo.
And then I saw a second typo andI was like, do I have these
typos in my resume?
And Rebecca's like, there's noway.
Right?
And I was like, I would assumethere's no way.
But what is this?
Rebecca (41:04):
I knew you could never do that bad, Jamie.
I knew that it was just,
Jamie (41:08):
talking about?
No, it's not the LinkedIn one.
This was just
Rebecca (41:12):
but that one fucks your, that
Jamie (41:13):
yeah, that one fucks you up too.
Yeah, I don't do that.
I'd never apply using LinkedIn.
but I might start, because I putin all this effort in like
curating like a cover letter andlike telling you things about me
and my skills that would make meawesome for this job and this
role.
(41:34):
and I spend a lot of time onthat and it's like, why nobody
responds to me.
It makes me feel like shit.
It makes me feel like I'm notgood enough.
It makes me feel like maybe I'mnot good at what I do, or like
maybe I'm not writing theseawesome cover letters that I
(41:54):
think I'm on.
Maybe my resume isn't as greatas I thought it was after
spending many days and time onit.
Rebecca (42:03):
That's what I wanted to bring up, watching you panic
yesterday about your resume, andit was like the thought that you
had actually messed it up whenbefore.
I know you've been like, I wouldnever fucking do that, but you
had to double check yourself.
Jamie (42:15):
Yeah.
Rebecca (42:16):
You never, I mean, like you, that's usually
Jamie (42:19):
Be like, no, of course not.
Like I'm not gonna put typo inmy resume.
Like, I
Rebecca (42:23):
Right.
You can tell it's taken You'vetaken it so hard, like
Jamie (42:26):
like Yeah.
Rebecca (42:27):
it's happened so many times and you've taken it so
much that you can tell that nowyou're just like double
checking.
You know what I mean though?
Like, it, it's like it's hapthis has happened to you so
much.
You're just like, oh my God, isit me when you can just tell
it's gone too.
Jamie (42:44):
Yeah.
But it's really tough.
I wanna get back to, I know wedo it a little bit, but I wanna
start posting more jobopportunities and stuff in
Discord.
and everyone else please do sotoo.
Even if you're like, oh, I don'tknow.
And I'm not sure Feel free topost it.
Like it doesn't hurt to post it.
If you come across something, oreven if you're like, we're all
(43:04):
over the place, oh, my company'sremote and this came up.
please post it.
All right.
We got a quick ad break.
Rebecca (43:11):
Is it McDonald's?
I see French fries.
Jamie (43:14):
oh my God, Rebecca,
Rebecca (43:15):
It is McDonald's.
We got McDonald's.
Jamie (43:20):
love that.
I love that.
Rebecca (43:23):
I'm so excited.
Jamie (43:24):
You can tell Rebecca isn't subscribed to her podcast.
I am.
I don't have ads.
Rebecca (43:29):
I'm not giving, I'm not giving myself money.
I'm, I just will not.
Jamie (43:33):
so I give the burnout collective money, but then the
burnout collective givesintellectual bully money.
So
Rebecca (43:40):
Mm.
Okay, so we're subscribed.
Jamie (43:43):
no, it's all my money.
Like it's not burnout,
Rebecca (43:46):
I know.
You're like laundering.
You're like laundering yourmoney back and
Jamie (43:49):
laundering, please.
Let's not have that in atranscript about me laundering
money when we're talking aboutme trying to find a job.
Rebecca (44:02):
Sorry.
Jamie (44:04):
Oh,
Rebecca (44:05):
on.
You know, she's not launderingher money.
She doesn't have any, she'sunemployed.
Jamie (44:11):
You got two nickels to rub together.
Whatever.
Rebecca (44:16):
Yeah.
Jamie (44:17):
she's unemployed.
Don't worry about it.
Don't worry about it.
Oh, and then what was the other?
And also just like people arepaying less for everything.
Rebecca (44:32):
Oh my God.
What was it?
It was$18 an hour for 10 hours aweek, and you're like, that is
$180 a week.
Kids at Target make
Jamie (44:42):
And it was like pre-tax too.
Rebecca (44:45):
Yes.
What the fuck?
Jamie (44:48):
It's and that's I
Rebecca (44:49):
on a contract and if you, even if you had multiple of
those jobs on a contract, that'sstill nothing.
That's like what?
Jamie (44:58):
Yeah.
And it's I wanna work, like Ineed that routine.
I need that routine to get, givemy life like that structure and
just, I don't know, it's just,it's so hard.
And I'm already like, so it's nosecret.
(45:19):
Like I live in Los Angeles, andpeople are gonna be like, oh,
I'll get like time to move, timeto move somewhere cheaper or
whatever.
Rebecca (45:26):
you need money to move.
If you are not working, where isthat money coming from?
Jamie (45:30):
Exactly.
And like also, like I havefamily here.
I have a little niece and alittle nephew that I plan on
staying here for them, like forme, but also for them.
I want the, I wanna be aroundwhen they grow up.
I want them to have me aroundwhile they grow up.
I think that's really important.
And if I were to move anywhere,I'm, it's not like I would move
(45:55):
to family.
I'm not gonna go move in with myparents.
I'm not gonna move.
if I have to, I will, But
Rebecca (46:00):
It still takes money.
Like
Jamie (46:02):
yeah.
And so looking at jobs too, thatI'm like, I've already applied
for
Rebecca (46:08):
I.
Jamie (46:08):
jobs that are way less than I was making, so that's it
too, is I'm starting over.
Rebecca (46:13):
Yep.
And they know that they know thepool's so fucking small that
they can pay you less and knowyou'll fucking take it.
'cause you're desperate.
Jamie (46:21):
Yeah.
And it's and that's so messed upbecause that's.
Rebecca (46:25):
Oh, I'm sorry I'm not interrupting, but tell'em about
what you saw yesterday when itwas like, we're not gonna ask
you your salary, but
Jamie (46:32):
Oh yeah.
So a lot of times inapplications they'll have a box
that says what salary, what'syour salary expectation?
first of all, I know everybody'sgonna say oh, but I don't know
what to do.
So I tell'em anyway, never tellanybody what you've made.
'cause that's a illegal, it'sillegal for them to ask what you
made.
It's not illegal for them to askwhat you're looking for salary,
(46:54):
but never tell them you need toleave the ball in their court.
just be like,
Rebecca (46:58):
Comm, measure it with my, was it comm?
Measure
Jamie (47:00):
commiserate with,
Rebecca (47:01):
comm.
Measure it
Jamie (47:02):
comm, measure it
Rebecca (47:03):
with the level of my experience in this
Jamie (47:06):
yeah.
and the responsibilities of therole or something like that.
Rebecca (47:10):
And learn how to say that word we just said.
Jamie (47:14):
like, listen, it's been a really long couple days.
Rebecca (47:18):
I know.
Jamie (47:19):
I'm an editor.
God
Rebecca (47:23):
I dunno how to say it.
Jamie (47:26):
No, I know.
It's just funny to me.
Torah says the routine of workis so important for the
neurodivergent braid too.
Yes.
On the other side, burnout fromwork is right there as well.
Yes.
And that's another thing too.
Yeah.
Is like, um, I am, I am in Pat'sboat where I wanna say.
Like, yes, I have a disability.
(47:47):
Like I have a DHD, I havedepression.
but Rebecca's right, like I knowthere's still, and this is like
rave dance of Rebecca's right?
We need to make that, I'm gonnamake that for you.
I'm gonna do it somehow.
I don't know how I'm gonna doit.
if you could do a dance rightnow, this would be a perfect
(48:10):
clip for me to grab, do it, do adance, dance with me.
Rebecca (48:15):
I can't, oh, I need to
Jamie (48:17):
The Rebecca.
The Rebecca is right.
Dance.
Rebecca (48:20):
No, I know what you're gonna say, and I, I don't, it's,
I don't wanna be right about iteither.
That's the shitty thing.
I don't wanna be right aboutthat.
It's a shitty thing to be rightabout
Jamie (48:29):
yeah.
Rebecca (48:30):
they are going to look at that and they're gonna flag
you.
Jamie (48:35):
Yep.
And so I'm fine.
We're fine.
Yes.
Discard.
know, there's so much like wecould still ask about so much,
but Yeah, I was just talkingabout like the salaries.
At first, I was refusing to app,like I was refusing to apply for
anything that was any more than10 K below what I was making.
Rebecca (49:01):
Mm-hmm.
Jamie (49:01):
I've gone to 30% lower than what I was making, and I'm
applying because most jobs thatI was doing, they're, they're
like 50, 60%
Rebecca (49:22):
Yep.
Jamie (49:23):
what my salary was.
Like, things are low and theseare remote jobs.
And it's like maybe if I livedin BFE Northern Michigan, I
could survive on that, butthat's not where I live.
(49:47):
I don't know how people, they'reeven low for, even when you live
in BFE, like it's just, it's lowfor that period.
Rebecca (49:56):
Which means that you're gonna have to get another job
and to make one salary, it'sgonna be two jobs.
And if you're single,
Jamie (50:07):
Let's
Rebecca (50:08):
it's only you.
It's not double income.
Jamie (50:11):
make my, let's make my, um, uh, my two minute intro
video right here, right now.
Rebecca (50:19):
Let's do it.
Jamie (50:19):
All right.
Hi, I'm Jamie Young.
I've been a content specialistand editor, a writer, a manager,
and a leader and mentor forclose to 15 years now.
specialties are in the gamingand tech space as well as
(50:40):
personal finance.
I need a job.
Please hire me.
I am a hard worker.
I am funny as hell.
Everybody loves me.
I'm a great manager.
I can teach your bad managers tobe better managers.
Um,
Rebecca (50:57):
Uhhuh?
Jamie (50:58):
I'm just an all around delight.
Rebecca (51:01):
Yes,
Jamie (51:02):
Please hire me, Jamie, Jamie dot inc.
At me.com.
JAMIE INC.
Yeah, girl Jamie.
Girl jamie@atgmail.com.
I need a job.
Rebecca (51:20):
It was so good.
It was so good.
I endorse every second of it.
And you're not wrong.
All that is so true.
That's what kills me too.
You could be the fuckingpresident if you're a fucking
rapist, a cheat and a thief.
(51:40):
And reading ability to read islike really, like, you know,
iffy.
They all that shit.
But just even as far asintelligence and the fact that
is president and somebody
Jamie (51:52):
or write properly either.
Like
Rebecca (51:55):
caliber, your quality, your integrity, your ability
Jamie (51:58):
my loyalty, I'm so loyal.
It's
Rebecca (52:02):
you would jump on a grenade for
Jamie (52:04):
I would jump on a grenade for anybody.
Rebecca (52:07):
but if someone of your caliber can't find anything and
is getting rejected, come thefuck on.
Like, who, who do they wanna dothis job?
Jamie (52:16):
I don't know.
maybe I should be doing the twominute intro video because,
Rebecca (52:20):
You do have a nice voice, Jamie.
Jamie (52:22):
that's the other thing too, is I don't think that
should be expected.
So I am hesitant to do somethinglike that.
I mean, I have done somethinglike that, but, um, just, just
clip it.
Just don't say I need a job.
I should have clipped it.
I didn't.
but I do need a job.
Like I think that's okay to say
Rebecca (52:42):
I'm going to put it together and I cannot wait.
There's going to be an eagleflying over at one point and
patriotic
Jamie (52:49):
gonna make a mockery of it.
We're not actually gonna be ableto use this, but,
Rebecca (52:53):
all of the people who are in charge of media, like
media companies, that's gonnavibe with them so hard, they're
gonna love that.
Jamie (53:01):
Yeah.
I can also do social media.
Rebecca (53:04):
Mm-hmm.
Jamie (53:05):
great mentor.
I'm a career specialist.
Can help you if you need helpinterviewing and finding a job.
Rebecca (53:13):
You have great life advice.
You're good at coaching,
Jamie (53:17):
yeah.
And that's something I
Rebecca (53:19):
telling people what to do if they need that.
Jamie (53:22):
I love telling people what to do.
No, I, I like, I like managingpeople.
I like mentoring people.
especially like young people.
Oh my God.
Especially the young people.
hello fellow kids.
I'm a great cuddle.
Let's put that in your twominute video.
A really good cuddler.
(53:43):
you should do that Pat.
You can be a professionalcuddler.
I don't really feel better.
I thought if we did thisepisode, I would feel better.
I don't feel better.
Rebecca (53:58):
I am sorry.
I'm stuck on professionalcuddler.
That's
Jamie (54:03):
Yeah.
Rebecca (54:04):
no voluntary touching.
Jamie (54:09):
Oh yeah.
you couldn't do that, but
Rebecca (54:11):
No,
Jamie (54:12):
Pat would love it.
Pat would love
Rebecca (54:14):
good.
No, I don't feel better either.
And in fact, I feel angrier andI'm having a really hard time
keeping my yapper shut because Iam employed and
Jamie (54:24):
Yeah.
Rebecca (54:25):
wanna stay that way for a while.
Jamie (54:27):
Yeah.
I can't be a professionalcuddler on account of my massive
erections, ma'am, that'sinappropriate.
Please put your erection away.
Rebecca (54:35):
marina, please.
I have a boyfriend.
Jamie (54:38):
Yes, that was good.
Rebecca
Rebecca (54:40):
I did
Jamie (54:41):
okay.
Now that you're clapping foryourself, you're taking away
from
Rebecca (54:44):
The fact of the matter is, it's not just you.
There are a ton.
There are a ton of other reallyamazing, talented people out
there, and that's what kills me.
There's this giant pool ofamazing people.
And what are you beingoverlooked for?
Jamie (54:54):
And that's where the imposter syndrome comes back.
Rebecca (54:56):
Yep.
Jamie (54:57):
clearly I'm being overlooked because there are
people that are better.
At this job than me, you know,
Rebecca (55:04):
I just had what sounds like a high thought.
It is not, but it's like we'regonna make you feel bad enough
about yourself, that you'll takeas little money as we can
possibly offer, which is gonnamake you feel more bad about
yourself, and we're gonna beable to fucking control.
It's,
Jamie (55:19):
well, it's that, or I'm gonna be miserable and then I'm
just gonna be burnt out again,and then I'm back in the
corporate burnout cycle.
Rebecca (55:27):
We're gonna benefit off of being able to pay you 20,000
less than you made, because weknow you're desperate and we
know you feel shitty, so you'renot gonna negotiate and make us
feel better.
And so you're already in a spotwhere you know it's, you're in a
power, like a big powerimbalance.
It keeps you beaten down.
Jamie (55:45):
I always tell everybody, no matter what, people will get
job offers.
And they're like, oh, but it'sso much more than I was already
making.
And I'm like, I don't care.
Negotiate, always negotiate.
I truly believe that negotiateseverance, your severance
package, negotiate, yourstarting salary if they won't
change, budge on the salary,negotiate a starting bonus.
(56:06):
People will do starting bonusessometimes, always negotiate.
I think that's so important.
But I'm curious now because liketo me, I'm like, what's the
worst that can happen is theysay no, like they've still
offered you money in the job,they're still gonna give you the
job.
They're just gonna say, we can'tpay you that.
And then you either have to say,alright, that's fine, or move
(56:27):
on.
But I wonder in this environmentnow, which how, what with how, I
don't know what else to saybesides with how hostile and
toxic, recruiting is going.
and job like JD jobdescriptions.
Like I wonder if there arepeople now who have told, like
(56:48):
offered somebody a job, they'venegotiated and then they've
said, oh no, sorry, like we'vegone with somebody else.
Rebecca (56:56):
Yes, that has happened multiple times
Jamie (57:00):
That's fucked.
Rebecca (57:01):
to lots and lots and lots of people.
If you read, ask a manager
Jamie (57:05):
Yeah,
Rebecca (57:06):
instances of that happening.
Jamie (57:08):
they can or send the offer.
I feel like that's
Rebecca (57:10):
yeah.
Jamie (57:13):
that's fucked.
I
Rebecca (57:16):
And that right there is how
Jamie (57:17):
That's never happened to me and I negotiate every time,
but.
Rebecca (57:21):
The fact that you stood up yourself means that they know
that you're gonna push back oneverything else,
Jamie (57:28):
Yeah, it's not even pushback.
It's literally just Hey,
Rebecca (57:32):
to them it is.
Jamie (57:33):
I am worth this.
Yeah, no, I know, but I'm sayinglike in
Rebecca (57:36):
And they don't want you to think you're worth this.
They don't want you to thinkthat they think you're worth
that.
Jamie (57:42):
now, it just seems like a giant fucking conspiracy,
Rebecca (57:46):
It's called the patriarchy, Jamie.
That's what it is.
It's the fucking patriarchy andcapitalism.
You know, this.
Jamie (57:52):
patriarchy, capitalism.
We need to figure that out.
Actually, I wanted to have anonscreen one of those, but who
knows?
Yeah, it's stressful.
So listen, if you're out thereand you're struggling to find a
(58:12):
job, or if you are like, Hey, Iknow my company's hiring, or
Hey, I've seen these jobs, likewhatever, come in on Discord.
share, share this with people.
I think like we just need toshare with
Rebecca (58:23):
let us know.
Jamie (58:25):
and it can be anything we have people looking in content
marketing.
We have people looking in it.
I know engineers that are stilllooking for work, which is crazy
to me because I always thinkthose are the ones that are
like, so, if you're looking forwork, come in post, post what
you're looking for, post
Rebecca (58:43):
We didn't even look over your resume for you, like
if, give even just suggestions
Jamie (58:47):
yeah.
Help with resumes, help withlike interview tips and stuff
like that.
I know interviewing, especiallyas an introvert, I'm an
introvert.
that can be really difficult todo.
So
Rebecca (58:59):
there's a method to it.
Alyssa taught us that.
She was like, oh, didn't, youknow when you interviewed you
were supposed to, like when theyasked you a question you're
supposed to do, I don'tremember, but it was like,
here's the done da and da dah.
And she's and you're supposed toanswer them in that way.
Which again, I actually didn'tknow that.
So
Jamie (59:14):
Yeah.
I think it's just,
Rebecca (59:15):
and amazing.
Jamie (59:16):
yeah, I think it's like you answer the question and then
you give an example of it andthen how you solved it,
basically.
Rebecca (59:23):
But that was just something I hadn't really
thought about.
And again, I'm almost 40, I'm,how many people out there
Jamie (59:29):
Yeah.
Rebecca (59:30):
haven't thought about either, who are,
Jamie (59:32):
Yeah.
Rebecca (59:32):
so yeah, it's really helpful.
And it's nothing but good.
I dunno.
Jamie, I'm sorry.
I don't feel better.
I know you don't feel better.
Jamie (59:39):
Listen, we're not here to make you feel better.
We're here to commiserate withyou and I don't know, just talk
about it in hopes that.
In my brain, I'm like in hopesthat like things can change a
little bit and, but everythingis fucked up.
(01:00:00):
We love you, we love you guys somuch.
Thank you for listening to us.
Yeah, just like, All right.
Bye guys.
Rebecca (01:00:06):
Okay.
That's it.
Go away.
You haven't reached eating Doritos in your underwear
Jamie (00:03):
I had, I literally had a mini bag of Doritos for
breakfast the other day at likenoon.
And then I didn't eat
Rebecca (00:09):
I stand, I stand so corrected.
I would like to, um, take backmy statement.
Jamie (00:15):
but we'll talk about that later.
Rebecca (00:17):
Withdrawn.
Nevermind.
Jamie (00:19):
Subscribe, to OnlyFans, please.
I am Jamie.
And I'm Rebecca.
Welcome to the BurnoutCollective.
Hello.
Rebecca (00:34):
Hi, welcome to episode 20.
We did it.
Jamie (00:41):
I know
Rebecca (00:42):
This is monumental.
Thank you guys for joining us.
Jamie (00:47):
Happy
Rebecca (00:47):
proud of us.
Jamie (00:48):
Thursday.
Happy Podcast Day, as we like tosay around here.
Oh, yep.
Rebecca was just saying like, ohmy God, episode 20.
Did you ever think we'd make ithere?
Much less episode five?
And I was like, no.
Rebecca (01:04):
Nope,
Jamie (01:05):
Yes.
It's almost the weekend, almost.
We're here to taunt you thatit's not quite the weekend, but
in case you weren't here lastweek, we announced, our
interview.
I should make it like a botcommand actually, so I can just,
whatever.
But here's our listen notesinterview, that we did, were a
(01:27):
very beloved sought afterpodcast and they were like, God,
we would love to interview you.
And we were like, I guess wehave the time.
but no, seriously, you don'talways hear, you don't always
hear from us why we do this andwhy we started this, and like
(01:48):
the main reason.
I think we kinda go into it wellthere.
So give it a read, give it askim.
we worked hard on it and Yeah.
You wanna let the people knowwhat they should join?
Rebecca (02:04):
Join the discard.
Jamie (02:05):
Join the
Rebecca (02:06):
we are there to help.
Look at your resumes.
We are there to commiserate.
We are there to share jobs thatare available if we know of any,
professionally network,personally network.
If you need a body, double, ifyou need an alibi.
all of these and more on ourdiscard
Jamie (02:22):
On the discard.
and next week, for episode 21.
Do you wanna
Rebecca (02:28):
If all goes well, we'll be joined by Morgan Smith.
Leonard, who was, my colleague,a few years ago.
She's super fucking smart.
She was in recruiting in hr.
She's very much a people person.
Very much an extrovert and somuch fun to talk to.
Jamie (02:43):
We love smart bitches.
Rebecca (02:46):
She really is.
Really is.
Jamie (02:49):
Yeah.
And we're looking to get, moreguests, scheduled soon.
We have a couple on the horizonyet, but also if you wanna be a
guest or if either of us hasasked you about being a guest at
some point, or if we haven't andyou're interested, please reach
out to us, let us know.
we want a variety, or if, youknow, if you're like, oh my God,
(03:11):
I follow this person on socialmedia, and they're always
talking about mental health orburnout or whatever, make
suggestions, like who you might
Rebecca (03:20):
Mm-hmm.
Jamie (03:21):
hear, like what would be interesting for you anyway.
Yeah,
Rebecca (03:26):
Yeah,
Jamie (03:29):
So, today was supposed to be an episode on spring
cleaning, or Swedish deathcleaning.
And I had a minty bee yesterday.
I think that's the first timeI've ever said minty bee.
I've been watching too muchTikTok, and cried to Rebecca for
(03:51):
20 minutes on video, on a videocall.
Because of just the state of thejob market and job searching.
And it's been like this for awhile, obviously.
but it's been rough.
And I also know a lot of peoplewho also got laid off that are
still looking for work andeveryone's having a really
(04:15):
fucking tough time.
And so I was like, we need totalk about this tomorrow in my
like crying rage.
And Rebecca was like, oh, maybewe should just play a game or
something.
We don't have to do the showtomorrow.
if you're, and I was like, no,we're doing this.
'cause I wanna talk about it.
Yeah, so we just wanted to talkabout it more.
'cause we know a lot of peoplethat are going through this.
(04:38):
What's happening?
so let's get into it.
Rebecca (04:41):
all of our outline is just all caps and me
transposing.
What you were saying yesterday,
Jamie (04:45):
know, I realized that 'cause I didn't read the outline
'cause I was just like cryingand raging and Rebecca's like,
okay, I'm making the outline.
You know?
And like I didn't look at ituntil today.
Like I.
Probably like 30 or 40 minutesago.
And I pull, I pull it up and itliterally is all caps, it ends
with a bullet that is in allcaps that just says, I fucking
hate everything.
(05:05):
And that's what I said.
Rebecca (05:07):
verbatim basic what.
Jamie (05:11):
direct quote.
Direct quote.
yeah.
imposter syndrome is real.
it's real period, even when youhave a job, right?
But it gets bad when you'researching for a job.
And not only are you, listen,I've been doing what I've been,
when I've been doing for closingin on 15 years, 14, 15 years.
(05:35):
I've been in the space for along time.
I'm an expert.
I've been doing, editing andwriting in the personal finance
space for that long and managingand leading.
And it just is insane whenyou've been doing some, it's
insane, period, but it's insanewhen you've been doing something
for so long.
And I think I definitely took itfor granted that I was like,
(06:01):
'cause I've been laid offbefore, but I got laid off when
I got laid off the first time.
That was, obviously of coursehorrible and out of the blue,
but like I got scooped up sofast.
Rebecca (06:13):
Mm-hmm.
Jamie (06:13):
layoff because of everything, please go back and
listen to our episode aboutlayoffs in which I announced
that I was laid off that week,which was great.
I, at first was very welcomingof the layoff because of all the
stress and moral injury that wasgoing on and, you know, burnout.
(06:34):
and so I did take a couplemonths there, there were a
couple, not full months, butlike a couple months here and
there where like I didn't do alot, I didn't look a lot for
jobs because I needed that breakto repair my mental health.
Rebecca (06:48):
I, while you were talking just a thought with your
imposter syndrome that I wantedto go back to, just, I wanted to
see, and so I just did a quickGoogle search and in March of,
you know, last month, theeconomy only had 228,000 new
jobs.
They only added 2200 28,000 newjobs, and the current
unemployment rate is 7.1million.
(07:11):
So, despite my career inpersonal finance, I can't do the
math on those odds, but I dothink those are pretty bad odds.
So
Jamie (07:19):
Can we get a numbers guy in here?
Can we get a numbers guy in hereto do that math?
Rebecca (07:23):
I'm just saying it's imposter syndrome, but like when
you look at the actual math, youare, you're, you're playing the
lottery essentially,
Jamie (07:31):
You are
Rebecca (07:32):
right?
it's a, it's, you're playing thelottery at this point.
so I.
Jamie (07:37):
and a lot of people in our industry too, like, I mean,
not like this show is not allabout me being laid off
obviously, but like a lot ofpeople in our industry were laid
off like all at the same timeand like in succession as well.
So that makes it more difficultbecause everybody's looking for
the same type of job andapplying to the same places.
(07:57):
And I know everyone that gotlaid off with me on my team and
the other team that was laid offat the same time, like they're
all great.
They're all super talented.
They're They've all been doingthis for a while, just like me,
So it's like everybody'squalified.
Rebecca (08:14):
It is, you have like a, if I, we need this, right?
Like a out of 1,775 people.
that's the pool of people you'reup against essentially for those
odds.
Roughly.
that's a shit ton of people.
Jamie (08:26):
Yeah.
Rebecca (08:27):
And if you're in a niche industry like ours, and
it's so small,
Jamie (08:31):
It doesn't feel small though, like, I mean, I guess it
is, but
Rebecca (08:36):
I mean it's really, it's a specialized one.
So it's, it's not general likeediting.
So there's more competition Ithink.
But the fact you're up againstthat many people,
Jamie (08:46):
in that.
Yeah.
Rebecca (08:47):
that's
Jamie (08:49):
yeah, it's insane, crazy.
It's, it feels bad man, and Iknow everybody else that's
looking for a job feels thesame.
And there, and then there arepeople that are laid off looking
for jobs still.
And then there are also peoplethat are at the companies that
had the layoffs, that arelooking, that are looking for
(09:11):
jobs, even though they're stillthere because they know like,
okay, my time's probably comingsoon.
And
Rebecca (09:16):
And it goes on for date, like you were saying, it's
been what, four months?
Jamie (09:24):
Yeah, it's about four months now, I think.
Going on five actually.
Rebecca (09:27):
Yeah.
And the longest I've beenunemployed was nine months, and
it felt like years.
It felt like years and years.
So I mean it's four months,objectively.
But on an unemployed timescale,
Jamie (09:41):
Yeah.
Rebecca (09:43):
it's insane.
Jamie (09:45):
I've been unemployed between roles and yet definitely
was one of the most lower timesin my life.
Yeah, it's bad.
It's bad.
I just lost my train of thoughtnow'cause I got distracted.
Rebecca (09:58):
You have purpose when you're working and then when
you're, suddenly you havenothing to do because despite
capitalism, your job is you havea purpose.
You go, you do your task, andlike that's what you need to get
up for every morning when youdon't have a job.
What is the fucking point?
Jamie (10:15):
It's like
Rebecca (10:15):
What are you supposed to do?
Jamie (10:17):
Except Wallow.
Rebecca (10:20):
Yeah.
And ideally it's like, I usethis time to garden and better
myself.
And it's like, no, I
Jamie (10:24):
Oh my God.
It's like covid.
It's like Covid.
When everyone was like, Ilearned this new skill.
Rebecca (10:31):
It's like your mini covid.
You're basically in quarantineon your own.
'cause you can't really spendmoney.
You can't go out because money'stight and you have to think
about everything constantly.
Oh god.
Jamie (10:44):
But also I did learn new skills.
'cause like we started apodcast, I don't know if you
know this, it's called theBurnout Collective.
Everyone making sourdough again.
Yeah.
yeah, I didn't learn anythingnew.
Like, I thought that I wouldcompletely repair like my mental
(11:05):
health and like my, I did.
I was like, I was like, this isgreat.
I'll take a break.
I'm gonna fix everything becauseI'm not gonna have to deal with
Rebecca (11:16):
I know,
Jamie (11:16):
a toxic job for a month and a half, two months.
And that didn't
Rebecca (11:23):
but also having to repair your mental health in
gestures.
Vaguely.
All of this fucking impossible.
Jamie (11:30):
yeah.
And then it got worse too.
'cause I was laid off, let'ssee, I was told that I was being
laid off in October, but we,
Rebecca (11:38):
Ugh.
Jamie (11:39):
they kept us on for October and then they also kept
us on the payroll for November.
Technically.
Um, we, we did nothing.
Like we, everyone was justlooking for jobs at that time.
And so it was also like, laidoff during the holidays.
Nobody's
Rebecca (11:55):
what I would've done during that time?
I would've gone through my slackand just to see who's actually
reading and can HR see what I'mputting in here?
Just for fun to see like whatwould happen,
Jamie (12:05):
I mean, yeah, I didn't do that.
I didn't do that.
I felt like they're not, theyweren't, because I know some
people that were kind of doingthat and nothing happened.
but yeah.
Rebecca (12:22):
But I mean, even though you were on the payroll, like if
you still aren't working, Imean, it's like you're getting a
preview of it and
Jamie (12:30):
Yeah.
And so I went hard then whenlike everyone, we all got laid
off.
We were all like trying to helpeach other and we're still
trying to help each other.
We still share jobs andeverything.
but, and then for December, Ijust had some I, like, I, I just
had, I had some plans and sodidn't really look, didn't
really look in December andnothing was going on.
(12:51):
that's when it was the absoluteworst was
Rebecca (12:53):
No one's
Jamie (12:53):
January, even in February.
I think it started to pick up alittle bit in February, but
barely, and it has started topick up.
I have noticed that.
So I guess there's that.
However, like when you see, andI'm sure I've mentioned this
before, so sorry if I'm a brokenrecord, but when you're like,
(13:15):
oh, hey, this sounds good.
I'm gonna apply for this job,and then you see that it was
posted eight hours ago and thenit's already saying no longer
accepting applications.
It's are you fucking kidding me?
You posted this at six in themorning and now this afternoon
you're like, oh no, done.
We got too many.
It.
What, how are you gonna trustthat you've got the right person
(13:38):
for this job by only leaving itup for that long?
that's insane to me, as a hiringmanager, as somebody who's been
a hiring manager often, like,that's not, that's not gonna do
it.
Rebecca (13:54):
No.
And again, that speaks to thatpool of 7.1 million if jobs are
filled up at capacity, as far ashow many applicants they can
take in that many hours.
Jamie (14:07):
Yeah, I think the problem is in that amount of time,
they're getting like a thousand.
Oh yeah.
No, I know.
I absolutely know why they doit, but I don't know.
I've worked at companies and nocompanies that like, they don't
do that.
They're not like, oh no, we getthis record number of
(14:28):
applications we gotta stop.
Rebecca (14:30):
Also, what if your dream employee is on vacation at
the moment and doesn't see itwhen it goes up?
Like
Jamie (14:34):
well it's literally like, unless you're there looking at
it.
I think we talked about thiswith Alyssa and she said unless
you're there looking at it, themoment it goes up, basically
like the day it goes up.
So it's like finding a job'salready a full-time fucking job,
except you don't get anythingout of it and you're not getting
(14:54):
paid for it.
Rebecca (14:56):
As a hiring manager, how many of those applicants are
someone from like, I don't know,KFC, and is like, I'm looking to
be an editorial manager.
'cause we've had those before.
I had one guy who worked as likeat an extermination company,
apply for a job recently.
Like how many of those slots arethen being filled up and you
totally lose out on the chanceand because they've shut it
(15:18):
down, but then they have to siftthrough all that bullshit.
So like it
Jamie (15:21):
Well, and then,
Rebecca (15:22):
close it?
Jamie (15:23):
yeah, are they gonna open it again?
if they're smart, I think theywould open it back up.
But if they were truly smart, Idon't think they should have
closed it
Rebecca (15:31):
No.
Jamie (15:32):
but then on the other hand, there are tons of
companies that are leaving themopen forever after they've
gotten, after they've filled therole.
It's just like
Rebecca (15:44):
be someone better.
Jamie (15:46):
we have all these articles out there, like seven
interview tips, you know?
And like how to land your next,like your next new favorite job
and like stuff like that.
But it's like where the fuckingarticles that are like, Hey, you
stupid ass hiring managers.
And it's not all hiringmanagers.
I can't blame it all on them.
(16:06):
Hey, recruiters, and sometimesif it's a smaller company and
you have one of those, it'slike, Hey, yeah, idiot s s not
S-E-O-C-E-O.
Like this isn't working, this iswhat you should do.
These things you're doing arered flags.
Don't do those things.
Don't, don't.
Rebecca (16:25):
would you prefer like a more rigorous process?
So like if, if they left it uplonger and like maybe to weed
out the people, like would youprefer to give more information
on the go around, like the firstgo around then?
if you had to put in a littlebit more extra work?
Because a lot of times they'reasking, they're, they're using
software like AI to sort throughand so they could probably
(16:46):
better narrow it down and have acloser match if like you did a
little bit more work up front.
Jamie (16:52):
Yeah, I mean,
Rebecca (16:54):
But that's still time.
Jamie (16:56):
that's fine and I'm willing to do that.
I've done that.
I've done, we've all done that.
We've done ridiculous shit
Rebecca (17:02):
Yeah.
Jamie (17:02):
one of, one of my new favorite things and a red flag
to me that I was telling Rebeccaabout is like, um, I see this
all over for different gigs andI do kind of understand if it's
like a social media gig for likea big company, like if it's like
Microsoft or something like, andthey're hiring like a social
(17:25):
media director or like adirector role.
I can understand this, but foranything else, I can't.
I was looking at like freelancewriting jobs where they were
asking me to also submit a twominute video introducing myself,
and I'm like, I'm not workingfor you full time.
I'm not doing anything where I'mgonna be on video.
Rebecca (17:48):
Mm-hmm.
Jamie (17:49):
Like, the biggest thing that you and I talked about is
that introduces bias.
First of all, I know I'm a whitewoman, but like for other, for
people of color, like thatintroduces such a fucking bias.
And it can also introduce biasfor people who don't know how to
record videos or what to use andaren't using the right lighting
(18:11):
or the right software.
And it's this isn't a video jobor
Rebecca (18:16):
There was an actor during Covid who was auditioning
online, I forget his name, butlike he was doing it in his
house and they thought they hadmuted and they were basically
like, look at his shitholehouse, and he could hear them.
So that's for an acting job.
So you know for sure someone'sgonna be like, look at her
shithole house, or look at like,they have nothing on the walls.
And judge you based on that,when you could be the best
fucking person to work there.
Jamie (18:37):
Yeah.
And it's and sometimes we don'teven know it.
So like, these can be peoplethat like, maybe they are nice
people, but in their heads,they're like, oh, I just didn't
like her.
but really they were thinkingabout, my like messy ass,
ridiculous background.
Um, it's, fucked up.
Rebecca (18:56):
It's immediate bias, like guaranteed it's immediate
bias.
Let us look at you andautomatically judge a book by
its fucking cover right now thatit is.
That's what it is.
We're judging you by your cover.
Jamie (19:06):
Which like they get to do when I get on a video interview
with them anyway.
But I also wonder like all theextra information, like that
video or anything or like whenthey're like,
Rebecca (19:20):
Oh, they're stealing your ideas,
Jamie (19:21):
yeah, write an example, blah, blah, blah for us and
we're not gonna pay
Rebecca (19:25):
right?
As an entire marketing plan, andalso like a social media
campaign for 2025 and 2026.
Thanks.
Jamie (19:33):
created whole, yeah.
I've created a whole likecontent calendar slash marketing
plan for people before anddidn't get paid for it.
And what is our rule, Rebecca?
Rebecca (19:45):
We don't fucking work for
Jamie (19:46):
We don't fucking work for free.
And everyone remember that?
Don't work for free.
Rebecca (19:52):
You can ask me.
Paid for the work you do whenyou're applying for jobs,
though, like that is absolutelyreasonable and not in an Amazon
gift card either.
Jamie (20:02):
D-F-W-F-F don't work for fucking free.
'Cause that has fucked me onpromotions at different jobs
that we've talked about on thisshow.
oh, you want me to do this newrole with double the
responsibility.
Cool.
What's the paying increase?
All you care about is money.
Like why is it all money to you?
You should just be happy to dowhat?
(20:23):
No, it doesn't work like that.
And it definitely doesn't worklike that when I'm looking for a
job because I have no money.
Rebecca (20:30):
Yeah.
Also, if you want me to try outa job, then like transition me
for like from my current job,take over my duties and then
gimme the space where like I canshow you what I can do.
Jamie (20:40):
yeah.
Rebecca (20:42):
Don't make me do two jobs.
it's,
Jamie (20:46):
Yeah.
Rebecca (20:46):
Not getting the best outta people.
Jamie (20:48):
Yeah, Pat says Interviews are why I am hesitant about
dyeing my hair or painting mynails.
Yeah.
maybe I should be hesitant aboutthat, but honestly, no one even
emails me back.
I haven't even been getting anyinterviews.
I haven't had an interview in amonth and a half.
And out of the, I don't know, Iwanna say thousands at this
(21:10):
point, but maybe I'm over doingit at least hundreds of
applications that I have turnedin, like three, maybe four
interviews.
I think it was three sinceNovember.
And that's unlike.
Everyone else doesn't reply.
Might all cancel on me.
Yeah, there's that.
I've had that, but mostly I justdon't get a reply.
(21:34):
I don't get a, sorry.
We filled a role.
I do.
I have gotten some, which Iappreciate.
I'm like, thank you.
thank you for being a good game.
I like, I always email them backand thank them because
Rebecca (21:43):
Thank you for not being an asshole and being a decent
human fucking being.
Jamie (21:46):
yeah, it's so difficult and I feel like everybody, like
I go on LinkedIn and everybody'stalking about this.
Everybody's like, I've been laidoff just like all of my
colleagues and blah, blah, blah.
And this is happening.
I'm trying to think of like theother red flags.
Obviously, we're like a familyhere.
Rebecca (22:06):
Oh, we're not putting any information about anything
that's going on with us.
We're not disabled.
We are straight as an arrow.
We are not your business skincolor like we are.
I'm not disclosing shit aboutshit.
It's all, no, I'm not, becausethat, you know, with all the DEI
(22:27):
anti DEI bullshit that'shappening under this fucking
asshole
Jamie (22:32):
Mm-hmm.
Rebecca (22:33):
guarantee you people would like start looking for
that and be like, no.
Anything with a yes on that.
They'd be like, absolutely not.
It's just, and it gives thempermission to, and you know that
they're gonna be doing that.
And I wanna say I'm, I wish Icouldn't be as cynical as I am,
but you know, that's what'shappening.
Jamie (22:50):
Yeah.
And it's just so hard.
And like even, because like, youknow, when you went through
this, when you were laid off forso long, like I was there for
that while you were laid off andjust like seeing many other
people close to me, like Pat,you know, like go through
layoffs and deal with it.
(23:11):
Like Alyssa, like
Rebecca (23:13):
Yeah.
You haven't reached eatingDoritos in your underwear
Jamie (23:18):
I had, I literally had a mini bag of Doritos for
breakfast the other day at likenoon.
And then I didn't eat
Rebecca (23:24):
I stand, I stand so corrected.
I would like to, um, take backmy statement.
Jamie (23:32):
but we'll talk about that later.
Rebecca (23:34):
Withdrawn.
Nevermind.
Jamie (23:37):
Subscribe, to OnlyFans, please.
I don't care if they're beingdicks about that.
I don't wanna work there anyway.
See, and that's how I feel andthat's how I usually feel.
But then at the same time I'mlike, I need a job.
Rebecca (23:48):
to pay rent.
Jamie (23:49):
I'm like, I need a job.
and I think I've been putting myinterest in DEI and SGM
initiatives on there still andtelling them about disability.
Rebecca (23:59):
Yes, pat.
That is the right way to think.
I am just being cynical andfacetious at that point, but
yes, absolutely.
You shouldn't be hiding.
You shouldn't be doing any ofthis.
You should be who you are.
I'm proud of it.
And not treat it like it's adeficit.
And I wish things were likethat.
I really do.
Jamie (24:15):
yeah, it's just unfortunate with how
everything's panning out andthat just makes, that just makes
everything a lot worse too.
'cause like I just, I don'tknow, go to my website, like
read my resume, go to mywebsite.
Like I spent a lot of time andeffort and thought in really
going over like what I'm lookingfor in a job.
(24:36):
What, and the cover letters Isend too, I'm stopping on like
the cover letter part of it alittle bit.
if they don't ask for it.
Rebecca (24:43):
Oh
Jamie (24:44):
but yeah, it's
Rebecca (24:45):
'cause we don't read them.
No one reads them, you knowthat.
No one reads them.
Jamie (24:49):
and that's what I think with the videos too.
I'm like, what are they doing?
Are they like sitting in aconference room, like laughing
at everyone's stupid videos?
Because these aren't people thatare doing videos.
These are fucking freelancewriters.
Rebecca (25:02):
Yep.
It's like the fucking coliseumat this point.
Like we're just, you're pittedagainst each other and they're
just sitting back and watchingand laughing.
Jamie (25:12):
what was it, who was I talking to that they said.
Oh, I won't name names because Idon't know, but an old colleague
of mine, was applying for a joband they basically were like,
they told them, Hey, it'sactually a hard decision right
now between you and this othercandidate.
Can you come in again, like inperson and have a little chat
(25:34):
with us as well?
And then they had to do allthese little extra things pitted
against this person.
And they literally like saidthat, I've never had that
before, where they were like,we're really trying to decide
between you and this otherperson.
What can you tell us or show usthat like you, they ended up
getting the job and they do likeit and I'm thankful, but that's
(25:55):
so fucked up.
That's so fucked up to
Rebecca (25:57):
That feels like that's illegal,
Jamie (25:58):
Yeah.
Rebecca (25:59):
and I know I'm gonna be disappointed and be like, yeah,
technically companies can dothat, but that feels like
something that should beillegal.
Jamie (26:05):
Jamie, you have the
Rebecca (26:06):
your opponent for this
Jamie (26:07):
Yeah.
Marina says that I have thebenefit of having a gender
neutral name.
They have no gender bias untilthey talk to you or Google you.
Yeah, but like until theinterview, you know?
Rebecca (26:19):
No.
Oh God dammit.
It was a woman.
Jamie (26:22):
Yeah.
Rebecca (26:22):
Fuck.
It's a girl, Jamie.
We wanted the boy one.
Jamie (26:25):
And not even, it doesn't even have to be a video
interview.
if I do the HR slash recruiterscreen on the phone, I think I
sound like a woman.
Maybe sometimes I don't.
Rebecca (26:34):
You know someone out there hiring manager calls it
Girl Jamie, and boy Jamie whenthey're like, which one do you
think this one is?
Girl, Jamie or boy Jamie.
Fucking assholes.
Jamie (26:42):
Pat said I've had a good run.
I'll live under the bridge if itmeans I'm done letting the
angry, bigoted people keepstomping on shit.
Yeah.
and that's what's hard too, islike I respect the shit out of
that.
And I feel the same way whereI'm like, we talk about this
podcast even we won't put it onour LinkedIn and we tell people
(27:03):
not to share anything about thison LinkedIn because what we
Rebecca (27:09):
And you're like, our followers.
I know, but it's like ourfollowers are really low and
we're like, don't share this.
Anyway.
Jamie (27:14):
Yeah, no, just on LinkedIn.
Rebecca (27:19):
I know.
Jamie (27:20):
and it's but the fucked up thing is, is like both of us
have learned so many new skillsand gained so many skills from
doing this.
And I think that makes me moremarketable, for example.
But I'm still kind of afraidthat somebody is going to listen
to an episode and I'm sure somepeople do that I apply for, but
(27:41):
is gonna listen to episode andlike not get the context or just
listen to a clip of it or.
Maybe listen to our episodeabout Zuckubus and just be like,
what?
and so I wanna say, you knowwhat, but fuck'em.
Because if they're gonna listento this show and see, and really
(28:02):
see what we're about and likewhy we're talking about this
stuff, I would love to hire aperson like that.
To me, that's very like,commendable.
Rebecca (28:11):
Listen, I do Google Us, like at, I'm doing it right now.
I'm googling us like once amonth to see if our, if it's
been crawled by Google yet, likeour, podcast Buzz Sprout page to
see if it comes up.
I am on page three, and so farwe're golden.
So
Jamie (28:30):
Am I on
Rebecca (28:30):
that's the good news.
Jamie (28:31):
am I on?
What page am I on?
Google Food?
Rebecca?
Rebecca (28:34):
See, there are two, usually you don't come up at all
Do you know what I mean?
Like it's, there's a lot ofJamie Young's out there, like a
ton of them, so it's likethere's a bunch of lamps.
Yeah.
So they're like, I can't evenget to you.
Usually it's just random.
Jamie's so good name.
Jamie (28:52):
Good name.
Good name.
But no, it's like I, I actuallywould love to put this on my
resume.
I would love to put this onLinkedIn, but I still don't, and
I'm still hesitant because Iknow some people will be like,
oh, we're not hiring her now.
And I'm like, I don't wanna workfor those people.
'cause those people are, I.
Judgy and they don't get it.
(29:13):
And they're gonna be the type ofpeople who work me into the
ground and have a toxicenvironment and don't have a,
have good leaders.
And I don't wanna work for thosepeople.
But at the same time, I'm like,but I need a job and I need
money.
So let's still hide, notcompletely hide, but I do kind
of like hide that from the workworld.
(29:33):
Like I don't apply to a placeunless it's a place that my
skills from the podcasts likewould
Rebecca (29:40):
Mm-hmm.
Jamie (29:42):
like go toward.
and I feel comfortable.
I don't share that usually.
I don't share that we do thiseven though this is something
that I'm like, this is probably,this is like one of the things
in my life that I'm like themost proud of.
And I love it.
And it fills me up and it makesme feel good.
And I love sharing this witheverybody, even when we're just
(30:02):
commiserating.
Like
Rebecca (30:05):
Mm-hmm.
Jamie (30:05):
it's a, it's a lot.
Rebecca (30:07):
It's like having that kid in Victorian times that you
couldn't really talk about.
Maybe it was like your cousinfucked you or something and you
had a kid, so you had hide himin a wall, but you loved him
deeply.
You just couldn't acknowledgehim
Jamie (30:17):
yes, Rebecca, it is exactly like that.
Rebecca (30:20):
Exactly like that.
Jamie (30:22):
Jesus
Rebecca (30:23):
I'm so proud of my metaphors.
Jamie (30:26):
Paper says, when I talk, I don't have an accent and I
have a pretty white first name.
I can tell some people's tonechange when I say my last name,
which gives away my background.
Yeah.
Rebecca (30:37):
Yep.
Jamie (30:38):
oh, and Pat, I can, I can't read this.
'cause I remember talking aboutthis with Pat.
Pat sent this job description,and at the top it said, read
this first.
Stop reading.
If you are a selfish, lazy,sloppy, rude content, dishonest
or negative, you won't make itpast the first interview.
So that's the first part.
This is a job description.
(30:59):
We are unashamedly looking for.
I dotting t crossing, takingcare of business bosses who dive
on a grenade for their buddy.
Pick up the ball, go get the wholding the rally flag in the
other hand and leading the team.
You've had a job, you've had agrind.
Come find a refining battle.
(31:19):
Like this doesn't, this doesn'teven make sense as like
Rebecca (31:21):
Would you allow me to be the translator please?
On this one?
Could I translate what thismeans?
Jamie (31:26):
Oh yeah.
Rebecca (31:27):
Hi, we are looking for a child who we can pay$12 an
hour.
Who will stay here until 3:00 AMDo all the fucking work.
Take the blame when we get drunkduring the weekend and forget to
do our work and then make you doit.
And then we're like, oh, no.
What happened?
someone we can kick aroundinsult, make you feel as, as
possible, all while a shit smileon your face because you need
(31:47):
this job and we fucking know it.
get down on your knees.
Fucking slave.
Let's go.
Jamie (31:51):
Yeah, we're a family.
Rebecca (31:54):
Oh, but like, we're a family here and we have a keg,
Jamie (31:57):
this is like the, it's come find a refining
battleground where you defeatthe worst versions of yourself
to become better.
Rebecca (32:05):
AKA, we will peel the skin from your body if you fuck
up.
One more thing,
Jamie (32:10):
Does this fucking douche Brett douche Bag tech bro, know
that like he is the worstversion of myself.
Rebecca (32:19):
Jamie, you couldn't even reach that level of.
Jamie (32:24):
This is like, I mean, it sounds like a kid wrote it like
this sounds like a child wroteit.
Rebecca (32:29):
It sounds like one of those Gwyneth Paltrow girl boss
gaslight gatekeeper goopbullshit
Jamie (32:34):
This, this sounds like every white male, uh, uh, tech
bro, CEO at a startup.
Rebecca (32:48):
I worked so hard.
I had asked my dad for money.
Jamie (32:51):
We have snacks and drinks in the kitchen.
Did you see that real I sent youtoday on Instagram?
Rebecca (32:58):
yes.
Also, the, these are the men whosay that their grandparent
grandpa was in World War ii.
But then don't say what side?
Those guys.
Jamie (33:07):
it's those guys.
It's those guys.
Rebecca (33:09):
Oh, my grandfather was in the Army.
Which one?
Um,
Jamie (33:12):
Thank you for sharing that, pat.
That was, it was Chef's Kiss.
That was, it's great.
Yeah.
Pat shared that with me and Iwas like, is this real?
Like this doesn't even, thisdoesn't even seem real.
Rebecca (33:24):
if you are hit by a bus, your, that job post will be
up before you're cold.
Like they do not give a fuck.
Jamie (33:32):
It's like you're supposed to give your everything as if
you already have a job at theseplaces to get a job with these
places, but they don't give ashit.
You're literally just a drop inthe what?
7 million jobless
Rebecca (33:47):
7.1 million.
You're going to, you're gonnafeel like the cum rag We think
you are,
Jamie (33:52):
What are you
Rebecca (33:53):
you're just disposable to them.
These jobs are just insane.
And also you're not gonna getpaid shit.
The dive on the grenade part isconcerning.
'cause that sounds like, takethe fucking blame,
Jamie (34:02):
it does.
It's yeah, I would dive on agrenade for my buddy, but you're
not my buddy.
Like you're my CEO, you're mymanager.
Like,
Rebecca (34:12):
Mm-hmm.
God,
Jamie (34:16):
yeah.
Rebecca (34:16):
on a fucking grenade.
Stop at nothing.
Jamie (34:19):
It sounds like a child wrote it.
this is whatever.
I have a lot of feelings on thisthat I don't need to completely
elaborate on over and over.
but yeah, it's ridiculous.
And and then the fact that mostof us just don't hear anything
back is, or get canceled on orget ghosted.
Get ghosted.
Like, I've had recruiters reachout to me wanting to recruit me
(34:42):
and
Rebecca (34:43):
scammed.
you've
Jamie (34:44):
send Oh yeah.
And there's scams.
I forgot about the scams.
There's also scams all over theplace.
what was that?
Was that girl's email?
Rebecca (34:52):
Oh, so I got to watch this real time.
Jamie got a, Jamie got like thisreal spammy thing on LinkedIn
and I was just watching herrespond and trying to get
information outta this woman.
And this woman was like, sendit.
And James was like, no, you sendme.
And she would just try to getlike your email and then you'd
try to get hers and she, it wasinsane.
Jamie (35:10):
Yeah.
no, she didn't even want myemail.
She just wanted to chat with meon LinkedIn and have me like,
give her all this informationabout myself
Rebecca (35:17):
It's just, what the fuck?
And you just spent 15 minutes ofyour time.
I know you're playing around,but just like for the people who
are getting scammed, that's timethat you could be
Jamie (35:27):
Yeah.
And like some people that don'tknow that they're like, they
don't like, I'm not calling themstupid, but some people are
maybe new to LinkedIn.
Rebecca (35:35):
no.
I didn't.
I didn't mean, I mean like sham,like fuck the scammers'cause
that's Okay.
Good.
I was not
Jamie (35:40):
no, I was saying like, I'm not, I'm just saying some
people don't know.
and some people just would belike, oh, okay, yes, here's my
resume.
And like, yes, of course there'snothing wrong with giving people
your resume per se, but there'salso a lot of people trying to
tweak their AI recruiters or
Rebecca (36:01):
Ugh.
Jamie (36:01):
that they're trying to make money off of with personal
information and informationabout people.
So just don't trust that, justbe safe out there because it's
insane how people are trying toscam people that are already
having such a hard, horribletime and just need a job.
(36:23):
It's really fucking unfortunateif you're a hiring manager.
Oh.
Oh my God.
Hi Torah.
Rebecca (36:33):
Oh Torah.
Thank you.
Jamie (36:35):
for the sub.
They've subscribed for fivemonths.
Oh, thank you Torah.
You're the best.
I love you.
We love you.
Hope you're doing
Rebecca (36:44):
I have in all caps here, who do they even think
they are?
That was one of the shrieks.
You Shrieked applies
Jamie (36:51):
is that why you called it shriek something?
Because I was just shrieking.
Yeah.
It's accurate.
Yeah.
Rebecca (37:00):
do they even think they are?
Jamie (37:02):
Who do they even think they are?
But it's just please hiringmanagers.
Please.
Like common courtesy.
think back to when like you werelooking for a job.
Think just like be human.
I don't know.
Just be human.
Rebecca (37:18):
Faan Didn't their daddy got them that job?
They didn't
Jamie (37:21):
No, not everybody.
I was a hiring manager andyou're a hiring manager or
daddies didn't get us jobs.
Rebecca (37:29):
That's true.
That's a good point.
Um.
Jamie (37:31):
Like I'm not saying that all of, I'm not saying all these
people are bad people.
I'm just saying that there arebad people and I think when you
like have a job and you're ahiring manager and you're
sifting through thousands ofapplications, like sometimes
your brain is just Ugh, this isjust a thing I have to do.
This is another meeting I haveon my calendar.
(37:53):
And I get that.
I've been there like it does,it's a lot, but make sure that
these people get responses.
Don't send a, sorry.
We filled the position monthsafter you've filled it.
Even like, just,
Rebecca (38:11):
Oh yeah.
Jamie (38:11):
us back.
Rebecca (38:13):
it was you, was it after you got laid off and then
you got a response to a job likeyou had applied for while you
were employed?
do you remember that?
It was just like, it had beenmonths and then it was like, oh
yeah, sorry.
And you're like, oh, I appliedto this.
it's like it was so long ago,you totally forgot what it was.
Jamie (38:31):
yeah.
Yeah, it's beyond rude.
Rebecca (38:35):
Oh, and then you get follow up emails being like,
Hey, how is the hiring process?
And can you give us five star
Jamie (38:42):
I was excited.
Remember?
I was like, oh, let me tell youabout the
Rebecca (38:45):
I dunno.
Jamie (38:45):
But then I went in and it was just like,
Rebecca (38:49):
It did.
It was like one through five.
Jamie (38:51):
yeah.
And then I didn't have an achance to like, say anything.
I was like, okay, this sucks.
Come
Rebecca (38:59):
Oh, we didn't, we don't like actually care.
Jamie (39:01):
have a, yeah, have a have a better form because I wanna
read you for filth.
Come here.
Come here.
Rebecca (39:06):
mm-hmm.
Come here.
Just come here close.
Yeah.
that one was probably the worstI've ever seen.
Jamie (39:15):
yeah.
Rebecca (39:17):
Oh, wait.
When you do apply for the job, Igot to witness this in real time
yesterday.
You pulled from you uploadedyour resume and it's supposed to
pull in and pre-fill the formfor you with like, it introduced
errors
Jamie (39:32):
that,
Rebecca (39:32):
your,
Jamie (39:33):
yeah.
Rebecca (39:35):
if you hadn't caught that, if you hadn't been like,
that looks weird,
Jamie (39:37):
If I wasn't an editor I probably wouldn't have caught
that.
Rebecca (39:40):
you'll look like an idiot.
And you would've been out ofthat chance for the job just
based on that.
there was letters where theyshouldn't be, words were broken
up.
Jamie (39:50):
to be fair, I mean I know those are still around, but I
have not seen that.
Usually people are just like,here, upload your resume here.
Or you can put it in plain text.
That's it.
That's perfect.
'cause I can give you what I'vecreated in PDF form or I can
just type it in.
I guess that's more the type inis more like the cover letter or
(40:10):
whatever.
but this company, which is ahuge company by the way, giant
Ask Company, they do it whereyou upload your resume and then
like Rebecca said, it pulls itinto a form and not only did it
introduce errors with theformatting and it fucked it all
up, made it look weird, which asan editor, I'm like, I have to
fix this now.
(40:30):
it introduced, which I can't, Istill can't figure out how, but
it introduced typos.
Rebecca (40:36):
Yeah.
Jamie (40:37):
There were typos that it had introduced.
Into my resume that it pulled onthis form.
And so I had to go in and I hadto change everything and fix
everything.
Rebecca (40:47):
After you had a panic attack and you're like, oh my
God, is my resume wrong?
Jamie (40:50):
I know.
I was like, you were, I waslike, I can't have that typo.
And then I saw a second typo andI was like, do I have these
typos in my resume?
And Rebecca's like, there's noway.
Right?
And I was like, I would assumethere's no way.
But what is this?
Rebecca (41:04):
I knew you could never do that bad, Jamie.
I knew that it was just,
Jamie (41:08):
talking about?
No, it's not the LinkedIn one.
This was just
Rebecca (41:12):
but that one fucks your, that
Jamie (41:13):
yeah, that one fucks you up too.
Yeah, I don't do that.
I'd never apply using LinkedIn.
but I might start, because I putin all this effort in like
curating like a cover letter andlike telling you things about me
and my skills that would make meawesome for this job and this
role.
(41:34):
and I spend a lot of time onthat and it's like, why nobody
responds to me.
It makes me feel like shit.
It makes me feel like I'm notgood enough.
It makes me feel like maybe I'mnot good at what I do, or like
maybe I'm not writing theseawesome cover letters that I
(41:54):
think I'm on.
Maybe my resume isn't as greatas I thought it was after
spending many days and time onit.
Rebecca (42:03):
That's what I wanted to bring up, watching you panic
yesterday about your resume, andit was like the thought that you
had actually messed it up whenbefore.
I know you've been like, I wouldnever fucking do that, but you
had to double check yourself.
Jamie (42:15):
Yeah.
Rebecca (42:16):
You never, I mean, like you, that's usually
Jamie (42:19):
Be like, no, of course not.
Like I'm not gonna put typo inmy resume.
Like, I
Rebecca (42:23):
Right.
You can tell it's taken You'vetaken it so hard, like
Jamie (42:26):
like Yeah.
Rebecca (42:27):
it's happened so many times and you've taken it so
much that you can tell that nowyou're just like double
checking.
You know what I mean though?
Like, it, it's like it's hapthis has happened to you so
much.
You're just like, oh my God, isit me when you can just tell
it's gone too.
Jamie (42:44):
Yeah.
But it's really tough.
I wanna get back to, I know wedo it a little bit, but I wanna
start posting more jobopportunities and stuff in
Discord.
and everyone else please do sotoo.
Even if you're like, oh, I don'tknow.
And I'm not sure Feel free topost it.
Like it doesn't hurt to post it.
If you come across something, oreven if you're like, we're all
(43:04):
over the place, oh, my company'sremote and this came up.
please post it.
All right.
We got a quick ad break.
Rebecca (43:11):
Is it McDonald's?
I see French fries.
Jamie (43:14):
oh my God, Rebecca,
Rebecca (43:15):
It is McDonald's.
We got McDonald's.
Jamie (43:20):
love that.
I love that.
Rebecca (43:23):
I'm so excited.
Jamie (43:24):
You can tell Rebecca isn't subscribed to her podcast.
I am.
I don't have ads.
Rebecca (43:29):
I'm not giving, I'm not giving myself money.
I'm, I just will not.
Jamie (43:33):
so I give the burnout collective money, but then the
burnout collective givesintellectual bully money.
So
Rebecca (43:40):
Mm.
Okay, so we're subscribed.
Jamie (43:43):
no, it's all my money.
Like it's not burnout,
Rebecca (43:46):
I know.
You're like laundering.
You're like laundering yourmoney back and
Jamie (43:49):
laundering, please.
Let's not have that in atranscript about me laundering
money when we're talking aboutme trying to find a job.
Rebecca (44:02):
Sorry.
Jamie (44:04):
Oh,
Rebecca (44:05):
on.
You know, she's not launderingher money.
She doesn't have any, she'sunemployed.
Jamie (44:11):
You got two nickels to rub together.
Whatever.
Rebecca (44:16):
Yeah.
Jamie (44:17):
she's unemployed.
Don't worry about it.
Don't worry about it.
Oh, and then what was the other?
And also just like people arepaying less for everything.
Rebecca (44:32):
Oh my God.
What was it?
It was$18 an hour for 10 hours aweek, and you're like, that is
$180 a week.
Kids at Target make
Jamie (44:42):
And it was like pre-tax too.
Rebecca (44:45):
Yes.
What the fuck?
Jamie (44:48):
It's and that's I
Rebecca (44:49):
on a contract and if you, even if you had multiple of
those jobs on a contract, that'sstill nothing.
That's like what?
Jamie (44:58):
Yeah.
And it's I wanna work, like Ineed that routine.
I need that routine to get, givemy life like that structure and
just, I don't know, it's just,it's so hard.
And I'm already like, so it's nosecret.
(45:19):
Like I live in Los Angeles, andpeople are gonna be like, oh,
I'll get like time to move, timeto move somewhere cheaper or
whatever.
Rebecca (45:26):
you need money to move.
If you are not working, where isthat money coming from?
Jamie (45:30):
Exactly.
And like also, like I havefamily here.
I have a little niece and alittle nephew that I plan on
staying here for them, like forme, but also for them.
I want the, I wanna be aroundwhen they grow up.
I want them to have me aroundwhile they grow up.
I think that's really important.
And if I were to move anywhere,I'm, it's not like I would move
(45:55):
to family.
I'm not gonna go move in with myparents.
I'm not gonna move.
if I have to, I will, But
Rebecca (46:00):
It still takes money.
Like
Jamie (46:02):
yeah.
And so looking at jobs too, thatI'm like, I've already applied
for
Rebecca (46:08):
I.
Jamie (46:08):
jobs that are way less than I was making, so that's it
too, is I'm starting over.
Rebecca (46:13):
Yep.
And they know that they know thepool's so fucking small that
they can pay you less and knowyou'll fucking take it.
'cause you're desperate.
Jamie (46:21):
Yeah.
And it's and that's so messed upbecause that's.
Rebecca (46:25):
Oh, I'm sorry I'm not interrupting, but tell'em about
what you saw yesterday when itwas like, we're not gonna ask
you your salary, but
Jamie (46:32):
Oh yeah.
So a lot of times inapplications they'll have a box
that says what salary, what'syour salary expectation?
first of all, I know everybody'sgonna say oh, but I don't know
what to do.
So I tell'em anyway, never tellanybody what you've made.
'cause that's a illegal, it'sillegal for them to ask what you
made.
It's not illegal for them to askwhat you're looking for salary,
(46:54):
but never tell them you need toleave the ball in their court.
just be like,
Rebecca (46:58):
Comm, measure it with my, was it comm?
Measure
Jamie (47:00):
commiserate with,
Rebecca (47:01):
comm.
Measure it
Jamie (47:02):
comm, measure it
Rebecca (47:03):
with the level of my experience in this
Jamie (47:06):
yeah.
and the responsibilities of therole or something like that.
Rebecca (47:10):
And learn how to say that word we just said.
Jamie (47:14):
like, listen, it's been a really long couple days.
Rebecca (47:18):
I know.
Jamie (47:19):
I'm an editor.
God
Rebecca (47:23):
I dunno how to say it.
Jamie (47:26):
No, I know.
It's just funny to me.
Torah says the routine of workis so important for the
neurodivergent braid too.
Yes.
On the other side, burnout fromwork is right there as well.
Yes.
And that's another thing too.
Yeah.
Is like, um, I am, I am in Pat'sboat where I wanna say.
Like, yes, I have a disability.
(47:47):
Like I have a DHD, I havedepression.
but Rebecca's right, like I knowthere's still, and this is like
rave dance of Rebecca's right?
We need to make that, I'm gonnamake that for you.
I'm gonna do it somehow.
I don't know how I'm gonna doit.
if you could do a dance rightnow, this would be a perfect
(48:10):
clip for me to grab, do it, do adance, dance with me.
Rebecca (48:15):
I can't, oh, I need to
Jamie (48:17):
The Rebecca.
The Rebecca is right.
Dance.
Rebecca (48:20):
No, I know what you're gonna say, and I, I don't, it's,
I don't wanna be right about iteither.
That's the shitty thing.
I don't wanna be right aboutthat.
It's a shitty thing to be rightabout
Jamie (48:29):
yeah.
Rebecca (48:30):
they are going to look at that and they're gonna flag
you.
Jamie (48:35):
Yep.
And so I'm fine.
We're fine.
Yes.
Discard.
know, there's so much like wecould still ask about so much,
but Yeah, I was just talkingabout like the salaries.
At first, I was refusing to app,like I was refusing to apply for
anything that was any more than10 K below what I was making.
Rebecca (49:01):
Mm-hmm.
Jamie (49:01):
I've gone to 30% lower than what I was making, and I'm
applying because most jobs thatI was doing, they're, they're
like 50, 60%
Rebecca (49:22):
Yep.
Jamie (49:23):
what my salary was.
Like, things are low and theseare remote jobs.
And it's like maybe if I livedin BFE Northern Michigan, I
could survive on that, butthat's not where I live.
(49:47):
I don't know how people, they'reeven low for, even when you live
in BFE, like it's just, it's lowfor that period.
Rebecca (49:56):
Which means that you're gonna have to get another job
and to make one salary, it'sgonna be two jobs.
And if you're single,
Jamie (50:07):
Let's
Rebecca (50:08):
it's only you.
It's not double income.
Jamie (50:11):
make my, let's make my, um, uh, my two minute intro
video right here, right now.
Rebecca (50:19):
Let's do it.
Jamie (50:19):
All right.
Hi, I'm Jamie Young.
I've been a content specialistand editor, a writer, a manager,
and a leader and mentor forclose to 15 years now.
specialties are in the gamingand tech space as well as
(50:40):
personal finance.
I need a job.
Please hire me.
I am a hard worker.
I am funny as hell.
Everybody loves me.
I'm a great manager.
I can teach your bad managers tobe better managers.
Um,
Rebecca (50:57):
Uhhuh?
Jamie (50:58):
I'm just an all around delight.
Rebecca (51:01):
Yes,
Jamie (51:02):
Please hire me, Jamie, Jamie dot inc.
At me.com.
JAMIE INC.
Yeah, girl Jamie.
Girl jamie@atgmail.com.
I need a job.
Rebecca (51:20):
It was so good.
It was so good.
I endorse every second of it.
And you're not wrong.
All that is so true.
That's what kills me too.
You could be the fuckingpresident if you're a fucking
rapist, a cheat and a thief.
(51:40):
And reading ability to read islike really, like, you know,
iffy.
They all that shit.
But just even as far asintelligence and the fact that
is president and somebody
Jamie (51:52):
or write properly either.
Like
Rebecca (51:55):
caliber, your quality, your integrity, your ability
Jamie (51:58):
my loyalty, I'm so loyal.
It's
Rebecca (52:02):
you would jump on a grenade for
Jamie (52:04):
I would jump on a grenade for anybody.
Rebecca (52:07):
but if someone of your caliber can't find anything and
is getting rejected, come thefuck on.
Like, who, who do they wanna dothis job?
Jamie (52:16):
I don't know.
maybe I should be doing the twominute intro video because,
Rebecca (52:20):
You do have a nice voice, Jamie.
Jamie (52:22):
that's the other thing too, is I don't think that
should be expected.
So I am hesitant to do somethinglike that.
I mean, I have done somethinglike that, but, um, just, just
clip it.
Just don't say I need a job.
I should have clipped it.
I didn't.
but I do need a job.
Like I think that's okay to say
Rebecca (52:42):
I'm going to put it together and I cannot wait.
There's going to be an eagleflying over at one point and
patriotic
Jamie (52:49):
gonna make a mockery of it.
We're not actually gonna be ableto use this, but,
Rebecca (52:53):
all of the people who are in charge of media, like
media companies, that's gonnavibe with them so hard, they're
gonna love that.
Jamie (53:01):
Yeah.
I can also do social media.
Rebecca (53:04):
Mm-hmm.
Jamie (53:05):
great mentor.
I'm a career specialist.
Can help you if you need helpinterviewing and finding a job.
Rebecca (53:13):
You have great life advice.
You're good at coaching,
Jamie (53:17):
yeah.
And that's something I
Rebecca (53:19):
telling people what to do if they need that.
Jamie (53:22):
I love telling people what to do.
No, I, I like, I like managingpeople.
I like mentoring people.
especially like young people.
Oh my God.
Especially the young people.
hello fellow kids.
I'm a great cuddle.
Let's put that in your twominute video.
A really good cuddler.
(53:43):
you should do that Pat.
You can be a professionalcuddler.
I don't really feel better.
I thought if we did thisepisode, I would feel better.
I don't feel better.
Rebecca (53:58):
I am sorry.
I'm stuck on professionalcuddler.
That's
Jamie (54:03):
Yeah.
Rebecca (54:04):
no voluntary touching.
Jamie (54:09):
Oh yeah.
you couldn't do that, but
Rebecca (54:11):
No,
Jamie (54:12):
Pat would love it.
Pat would love
Rebecca (54:14):
good.
No, I don't feel better either.
And in fact, I feel angrier andI'm having a really hard time
keeping my yapper shut because Iam employed and
Jamie (54:24):
Yeah.
Rebecca (54:25):
wanna stay that way for a while.
Jamie (54:27):
Yeah.
I can't be a professionalcuddler on account of my massive
erections, ma'am, that'sinappropriate.
Please put your erection away.
Rebecca (54:35):
marina, please.
I have a boyfriend.
Jamie (54:38):
Yes, that was good.
Rebecca
Rebecca (54:40):
I did
Jamie (54:41):
okay.
Now that you're clapping foryourself, you're taking away
from
Rebecca (54:44):
The fact of the matter is, it's not just you.
There are a ton.
There are a ton of other reallyamazing, talented people out
there, and that's what kills me.
There's this giant pool ofamazing people.
And what are you beingoverlooked for?
Jamie (54:54):
And that's where the imposter syndrome comes back.
Rebecca (54:56):
Yep.
Jamie (54:57):
clearly I'm being overlooked because there are
people that are better.
At this job than me, you know,
Rebecca (55:04):
I just had what sounds like a high thought.
It is not, but it's like we'regonna make you feel bad enough
about yourself, that you'll takeas little money as we can
possibly offer, which is gonnamake you feel more bad about
yourself, and we're gonna beable to fucking control.
It's,
Jamie (55:19):
well, it's that, or I'm gonna be miserable and then I'm
just gonna be burnt out again,and then I'm back in the
corporate burnout cycle.
Rebecca (55:27):
We're gonna benefit off of being able to pay you 20,000
less than you made, because weknow you're desperate and we
know you feel shitty, so you'renot gonna negotiate and make us
feel better.
And so you're already in a spotwhere you know it's, you're in a
power, like a big powerimbalance.
It keeps you beaten down.
Jamie (55:45):
I always tell everybody, no matter what, people will get
job offers.
And they're like, oh, but it'sso much more than I was already
making.
And I'm like, I don't care.
Negotiate, always negotiate.
I truly believe that negotiateseverance, your severance
package, negotiate, yourstarting salary if they won't
change, budge on the salary,negotiate a starting bonus.
(56:06):
People will do starting bonusessometimes, always negotiate.
I think that's so important.
But I'm curious now because liketo me, I'm like, what's the
worst that can happen is theysay no, like they've still
offered you money in the job,they're still gonna give you the
job.
They're just gonna say, we can'tpay you that.
And then you either have to say,alright, that's fine, or move
(56:27):
on.
But I wonder in this environmentnow, which how, what with how, I
don't know what else to saybesides with how hostile and
toxic, recruiting is going.
and job like JD jobdescriptions.
Like I wonder if there arepeople now who have told, like
(56:48):
offered somebody a job, they'venegotiated and then they've
said, oh no, sorry, like we'vegone with somebody else.
Rebecca (56:56):
Yes, that has happened multiple times
Jamie (57:00):
That's fucked.
Rebecca (57:01):
to lots and lots and lots of people.
If you read, ask a manager
Jamie (57:05):
Yeah,
Rebecca (57:06):
instances of that happening.
Jamie (57:08):
they can or send the offer.
I feel like that's
Rebecca (57:10):
yeah.
Jamie (57:13):
that's fucked.
I
Rebecca (57:16):
And that right there is how
Jamie (57:17):
That's never happened to me and I negotiate every time,
but.
Rebecca (57:21):
The fact that you stood up yourself means that they know
that you're gonna push back oneverything else,
Jamie (57:28):
Yeah, it's not even pushback.
It's literally just Hey,
Rebecca (57:32):
to them it is.
Jamie (57:33):
I am worth this.
Yeah, no, I know, but I'm sayinglike in
Rebecca (57:36):
And they don't want you to think you're worth this.
They don't want you to thinkthat they think you're worth
that.
Jamie (57:42):
now, it just seems like a giant fucking conspiracy,
Rebecca (57:46):
It's called the patriarchy, Jamie.
That's what it is.
It's the fucking patriarchy andcapitalism.
You know, this.
Jamie (57:52):
patriarchy, capitalism.
We need to figure that out.
Actually, I wanted to have anonscreen one of those, but who
knows?
Yeah, it's stressful.
So listen, if you're out thereand you're struggling to find a
(58:12):
job, or if you are like, Hey, Iknow my company's hiring, or
Hey, I've seen these jobs, likewhatever, come in on Discord.
share, share this with people.
I think like we just need toshare with
Rebecca (58:23):
let us know.
Jamie (58:25):
and it can be anything we have people looking in content
marketing.
We have people looking in it.
I know engineers that are stilllooking for work, which is crazy
to me because I always thinkthose are the ones that are
like, so, if you're looking forwork, come in post, post what
you're looking for, post
Rebecca (58:43):
We didn't even look over your resume for you, like
if, give even just suggestions
Jamie (58:47):
yeah.
Help with resumes, help withlike interview tips and stuff
like that.
I know interviewing, especiallyas an introvert, I'm an
introvert.
that can be really difficult todo.
So
Rebecca (58:59):
there's a method to it.
Alyssa taught us that.
She was like, oh, didn't, youknow when you interviewed you
were supposed to, like when theyasked you a question you're
supposed to do, I don'tremember, but it was like,
here's the done da and da dah.
And she's and you're supposed toanswer them in that way.
Which again, I actually didn'tknow that.
So
Jamie (59:14):
Yeah.
I think it's just,
Rebecca (59:15):
and amazing.
Jamie (59:16):
yeah, I think it's like you answer the question and then
you give an example of it andthen how you solved it,
basically.
Rebecca (59:23):
But that was just something I hadn't really
thought about.
And again, I'm almost 40, I'm,how many people out there
Jamie (59:29):
Yeah.
Rebecca (59:30):
haven't thought about either, who are,
Jamie (59:32):
Yeah.
Rebecca (59:32):
so yeah, it's really helpful.
And it's nothing but good.
I dunno.
Jamie, I'm sorry.
I don't feel better.
I know you don't feel better.
Jamie (59:39):
Listen, we're not here to make you feel better.
We're here to commiserate withyou and I don't know, just talk
about it in hopes that.
In my brain, I'm like in hopesthat like things can change a
little bit and, but everythingis fucked up.
(01:00:00):
We love you, we love you guys somuch.
Thank you for listening to us.
Yeah, just like, All right.
Bye guys.
Rebecca (01:00:06):
Okay.
That's it.
Go away.
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