Prioritizing yourself out of spite

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Self, self-care out spite is thebest to bel.

(00:03):
You could rebel by like blowingup your life, but No, you're
like, actually I'm gonna make agarden and I'm gonna make it
beautiful and fuck you.
I am Jamie.
And I'm Rebecca.
Welcome to the BurnoutCollective.
Hi.
Hello.

(00:23):
Listen, you guys, this has beena shit show a little bit, but
Elyssa's here.
Yeah.
In the flesh.
Don't look at me.
Listen here.
The nice thing also about thiscrowd is we know how to handle a
shit show, right?
Absolutely.
This ain't our first rodeo.

(00:44):
No, it's not.
No, it's not.
so our gu our guest for today isunfortunately sick.
and we had the idea to Elyssa'shere visiting me, so we had the
idea to just bring her on.
this has turned into the slumberparty where everyone calls their
mom at 1130 at night to comepick them up.
This is the energy we'rebringing.
It's true.
It's, Hey Ash, marina and Ashwere here.

(01:06):
Ash, thank you so much for thereason.
I'm gonna be like, let's get outthe Ouija board and Jamie's
gonna be like, let's watch ahorror movie.
And Rebecca's gonna be like,both of those are satanic.
I, Rebecca's going, Rebecca's Ihave to go to bed, I have to do
my red light therapy and thenI'm gonna go to bed anyway.
Hey everybody.
I was like, so we're having aslumber party.
Yeah, we're having a slumberparty.
it was so fun last night wewanted to do it again.

(01:28):
Live in front of a studioaudience.
maybe with less inebriation.
we did fashion show.
We did snick snacks.
We did pet show.
Pet show.
We did fashion show and sticksnacks.
We, we saw, we saw your dogs.
So what are we talking abouttoday, ladies?
Oh yeah.
What are we talking about?
How to recenter yourself andyour life This came about.

(01:51):
There we go.
Because I feel like in the zyline people are talking about
decentering men.
if you do you watch the Whitelot?
You didn't watch the thirdseason of White Lotus?
I did not.
Right.
Please the spoilers, I'm caughtup.
Oh, you, oh, that's right.
Me and Rebecca don't care aboutspoilers anyway, but there's

(02:11):
like a group of three friends.
This isn't a spoiler.
We introduce them, theyliterally get off the boat in
the first episode and we'relike, hi, we are three friends,
we're white ladies.
We've been lifelong besties andwe're here to celebrate
together.
And people talked about how alot of their interactions are
still very like men, likecentered around men, even though
they're there to hang out witheach other.
It's like they end up talkingabout the men in their lives, or

(02:31):
like they are flirting with aguy who's there and it's who's
gonna hook up with him?
and so it just got me thinkingabout what does it mean to
actually de-center kind of whohe the other people?
'cause I think a lot of us areconditioned mm-hmm.
To put other people'sexpectations and ideas of who we
should be front and center.
So it's like, what is it tounpack that and make yourself

(02:54):
and center yourself in yourlife.
It's really easy to fall intodeprioritizing yourself just
constantly and not even thinkabout it.
Yeah.
And prioritizing yourself.
We just, we talked about all thedifferent ways that even like
the teeniest, tiniest ways thatare also prioritizing yourself.
That starting with the basics.
I feel like this is a timehonored tradition is just like

(03:16):
bitching about the patriarchyslash men.
Yeah.
Generalizing about men.
A time honored tradition.
I think we also said that menalways get so angry talking to
us because they realize thatthey're talking to higher
evolved life forms and theycan't stand and it makes them
mad and they try to kill us.
Yeah.
maybe I think they just feel, Idon't know, like on an emotional

(03:39):
level.
On a spiritual level, I thinkwomen are just better.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I don't know.
I like to believe that I am, Iwas gonna say more willing to
like, reflect and haveintrospection and do the work.
I think we're, and dig inbecause, sorry.
Yes.
Go continue.

(04:01):
Oh, I was just saying,'cause weare already taught from the get
go.
Like, well women are, you know,they have emotions and feelings,
so we're already told like we'retoo much and men are just taught
to stuff it down.
So we're already in that headspace of fuck, we might as well
have these emotion and feelings.
And so we do the work and we,yeah, we get to that next
evolution.
And men are still trying tofigure out like whether or not
they can cry.

(04:22):
Yeah.
Maybe I can make'em cry.
I'm trying not to give myself asuperiority complex.
I don't know how much this ishelping.
is it a superiority complex ifit's just the truth?
So you'll, you're saying I'mbetter than all men spoken like
a truth, or I'm just kidding.
a true and it, Rebecca, here'sthe thing, even in this
conversation, we're like, it'snot about being better than men.

(04:45):
It's about what does it mean tobe my best self by my own
definition?
We're talking about how tocenter yourself in your life and
how to focus on what you reallywant and how to take care of
yourself by deprioritizing men.
We're deprioritizing the culturethat should said that last
night.
It was Yes men.
Yeah.
Fuck men.
And now I'm like, deprioritizingmen.
And you both are like, not allmen, not my like, I feel like we

(05:08):
also were like, maybe we don'tneed to get on the.
On the podcast and just be like,we hate men.
They are so bad we love somemen.
They're okay.
They'll be fine there.
Some men.
and I don't think it's men.
I think it's, again, I'm likepeople who uphold the
patriarchy, which includes womenwho s men.
Yep.
Which includes and it may notwhite Christian women.
And it may not include all men.

(05:28):
Like I'm sure there's a lot ofmen who are working to
deconstruct their internalizedpatriarchy.
Yeah.
I'm still working to do that.
and I think same.
I think what you're saying iswe're at different points.
I think men, because this isjust the reality of what it is
to be someone who's impactednegatively by an oppressive
system.
You can see that system a lotmore clearly than people who
aren't impacted negatively.

(05:50):
And so I think we're just indifferent spots.
And maybe that's like where menor people who are socialized as
men need to start is likeunderstanding.
How have I been taught that justbecause I am, I grew up male,
that I have the, I'm entitled tocertain things I'm entitled to
be listened to.
I'm entitled to take up space.
I'm entitled to speak.

(06:11):
And how do I start undoing thatcan wherever I want, eat
whatever I want.
Yeah.
Eat.
I'll eat.
I heard eat whatever you want.
And I'm like, yeah, men do getto eat whatever they want.
But yeah, what's reallyinteresting, so their choices
aren't just the same.
Sorry.
Sorry.
Hold on.
A friend of mine is in therapyand he was saying that his
therapist, who is a woman, oneof the things that she told him

(06:32):
to do is like, when he's feelingsomething, to put it in a box
and save it for later.
Okay.
With women, it's Hey, let's digin.
Let's deal with this.
let's go through this.
So even like when they aregetting the help that they're
supposed to be getting, I don'tnecessarily think they are
getting told the same thingsthat we're being told.
And to be told tocompartmentalize and lock away

(06:54):
that feeling you're feeling Isstill upholding that whole
patriarchal Yeah.
Mindset and like also harmingmen.
Yes.
I also feel I don't thinkcompartmentalizing is like the
healthiest thing, but I feellike maybe I need to learn to
create a container for myfeelings.

(07:16):
like there are certain pointswhere you need to like, work
through your feelings and handlethem appropriately.
Instead of just like lettingthem be out all over the place,
But then how do you haveenemies, Rebecca?
I keep on your own private time.
That's, I'm saying the enemy.
That's thing.
You don't, you don't, don't shutit down.
She's trying to make it theenemy.
You just say, this is my hate.
My enemies get revenged fine.

(07:37):
She just can't wait.
She's sick.
Yes.
She's like, Elyssa's here.
This is the perfect time for usto do our enemies show.
And Elyssa's like, I don'treally have a lot of enemies.
But you know what though?
Actually that's a really goodpoint, Elyssa, because maybe
starting then with that, maybethat's like teaching them here's
a negative.
Like maybe it's teaching them torecognize like the difference in
emotions and at the very startit's like, Hey, this is a

(07:57):
feeling that I don't like tofeel.
And being able to separate itfrom the others, maybe that's
the beginning for them of Hey,still doesn't seem right.
There are different ways tofeel.
I know.
I, that's what I'm saying.
I guess what I'm saying is Ithink that the patriarchy puts
shitty expectations on all ofthis, and it's really key to
start saying, instead offiguring out how to live up to

(08:18):
patriarchal standards or, andit's not just patriarchal
capitalistic standards,productivity standards, are like
conditioning that we have fromreligious experiences.
Kind of separating that outenough to say what actually
supports me as an individualhuman?
Because I think that themessages we get work for some

(08:39):
people, there are some peoplewho compartmentalization really
works for them.
Or like me, maybe it would'vebenefited me to have a little
more coaching through here's howto manage and contain your
emotions when they're reallybig.
That's probably something Icould have been coached on.
Yeah.
And instead I like, I don'tknow.
It's I don't know.
It's just weird.
and then it's like, you know,creating space.

(09:01):
To deconstruct all of the waysyou're taught to be and judge
yourself and then say, okay, butwhat actually helps support me
as an individual person?
How do I center who I am?
Right.
Well, that's a good point.
Yeah.
Like how women are always like,oh no, don't be loud.
Oh, don't, you're too loud.
Or oh, you're talking in anormal voice.
Because you have some emotion inyour voice, whoa, why are you so

(09:23):
angry?
You know what I mean?
And it's Women are told to like,be quiet and don't cause a
scene.
and everyone, women especially,but everyone in the world is
just make yourself smaller,Yeah.
I think this can come out, outwith being neurodivergent too.
Yeah.
Because we're, you know whatit's like comes down to
unmasking too.
Yeah.

(09:44):
True.
But that's a good point aboutthe making a scene.
Because if you think about theeighties and nineties, like
romantic movies, they usuallyended with a man making a big
fucking scene.
Like pretty a woman.
He's just climbing up the treesand being like, ah.
So that was like the onlyfucking spoiler, the only
accepted emotions are bitch, Iswear to God it's been 70 years.

(10:05):
If they don't know too bad, butor, running through the airport
and love actually, or just oreven in big fights, like it's
those two main feelings.
Yeah.
If they're able, if they'reallowed to have feelings, they
have to make a big deal aboutit.
Whereas women, like you said,are just told to, make it small
and don't make it seem so it'sstill acceptable for them to do
it.
Yeah.

(10:25):
and it's centered on otherpeople's experience in that
situation.
Yes.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Not like what serves me, becauseit's healthy sometimes to have
the difficult conversationsdoing it in a kind and healthy
way, but yeah.
Keeping it in or not addressingstuff is when it's not, it's an
authentic and two, it harms you,I think.

(10:46):
Yeah.
It's harmful.
Mm-hmm.
To whoever's sucking it down.
Yeah.
Then literally drop ahead.
Yes.
They literally dropped outtaparty attacks because they just
give up.
And I think it creates a lot ofloneliness too, because it
teaches us to be not vulnerable.
I hate the whole, men don't havefriends epidemic, but they
really genuinely don't, I don'tthink a lot of men do have

(11:07):
friends and they don't have thesupport.
And there's literally three ofus right here talking to each
other constantly and just beingour own support group and yeah.
I don't see that for men.
Yeah.
Yeah.
it is there in some places andhere or there, but I would like
to see a lot more of that.
Yeah.
Like men having ver like superclose bonds and being able to

(11:31):
talk about their feelings witheach other.
Oh.
But then they're gonna thinkthey're gay.
Good.
So I feel like one of the waysthat we have centered ourselves
is like starting to build asupport system or like a family
or like a chosen family in agroup.
Yeah.
That's aligned with our personalvalues.

(11:53):
That get us, that support us,that we can show up
authentically with we don't haveto mask, we don't have to
perform, we can be vulnerableand hold space for each other.
Perfect.
Yeah.
It is.
Yeah.
We've been talking about that alot this week about how like,
and even some women don't havethis, and that's part of, we

(12:13):
were talking about why that'spart of why we created the
Burnout Collective is, or a bigreason actually one of the
biggest reasons is community andbeing there for each other.
And supporting each other andtalking about like how we're
feeling when we're like laid offand can't find a job, or like
we're having a hard time at workor we're having a hard time at

(12:34):
home with our kids, with ourspouse, with mental illness.
And I just think that's reallyimportant.
And we're very lucky in that,like we have, or at least I'll
speak for myself.
I'm very lucky in that I havesuch a great supportive group of
friends and a lot of you arebadass fucking women.

(12:54):
So I am surrounded by, when Iwas a teenager I was so like
tomboy-ish and I was so justwhatever, like I just can't be
friends with girls and I'm onlyfriends with boys and Yeah.
It's embarrassing.
It's not embarrassing.
I think we all have a pick meera, I get it.

(13:14):
Did you just call me a pick me?
Yes.
At one point I'm gonna call you.
And I did because I was justlike, Nope, don't say it.
But that's exactly what that is.
The pick me girl.
No, I'm not criticizing you.
I think that's part of workingthrough your pat.
I think for me that was how itgot internalized.
Yeah.
For me it looked a lot like whenI started dating, I literally
would tell people that I was ananti-feminist.
Oh my God.

(13:35):
Isn't that No.
Oh God.
Now that I would, when I was ateenager, I was dumb.
Yeah, no, I get it.
I probably wouldn't, I probablywould've said I wasn't feminist
either.
I guess I didn't say I'm antifeminism, but I was like, I'm
not a feminist.
Yeah.
I was like, I don't believe inthat because like I was dumb and
I didn't know what feminismmeant truly meant, which is how,
honestly, a lot of adult men Istill talk to now presently

(13:58):
don't know, don't understandexactly what feminism means.
For any of you who don't knowwhat feminism means, if you have
a py Meera Rebecca, not thatshe's gonna tell us about.
I don't, that's fine.
You know what, Elyssa, I did alot of sitting in my room
reading in my window sill andeating hunks of cheese and bread
like they did in the fantasynovel books and just a lot of
weird shit.

(14:18):
And playing with Barbies at 13.
So I'm want go with probably wasnot, I love this too.
I would not be surprised ifneither boys or girls wanted to
be friends, but I wasn't liketrying to get with these boys.
I was, I literally, I justwanted to be like one of the
guys, Yeah.
Feminism is, you want everythingto be equal for everyone.
Point blank period.

(14:39):
It's not even equality.
It's e it's, but I think equityas well.
Yeah.
And we also want to undo thenegative impacts of the
patriarchy.
Yeah.
Feminism is not about liftingwomen up and being like, women
are better than men and we need,we deserve more Yeah.
And I think that a lot of men,again, what we're talking about

(15:01):
with deconstructing ourpatriarchal thinking or our
capitalist thinking is somethingthat would benefit everybody.
I think people who aresocialized as men would benefit
just as much from sitting withwhat stories was I told about
what it means to be me and Whichstories fit and are aligned with
my values and what I, who I wantto be and which don't.

(15:23):
And I think that I had to dothat very overtly as a woman,
right?
becoming a mom and like reallychallenging ideas I had of what
it meant to be a good mom orwhat it meant to be a good,
spouse.
Spouse, like these kinds ofthings.
and I just don't know that,again, that awareness is there
for men because of how they'resocialized, but this is an
invitation of maybe think aboutthat and reflect on that.

(15:45):
It's wild that people don't seemto have that mindset at this
point.
And it's really unfortunate thatour society today doesn't form
these thoughts and viewpoints bydefault.
Yes.
1000.
I love this.
So we talked about values.
So I think that it's like we'vetalked about like
deconstructing, and by that likepulling out the scripts that

(16:06):
you're given Of what it means tobe a good person, what it means
to be a good worker.
What it, like all the roles thatwere and what you believe in
too.
Yeah.
Sorry.
Yeah.
It's almost like when you'reborn you're kinda like cast into
a play that we're allparticipating in and you're like
handed a script with certainroles and characters you're
meant to play.
And I think a lot of what I'mtalking about with

(16:28):
deconstructing is like reallypulling out the script and like
rewriting it and saying thedirector's but you can make it
your own.
it's like the director beinglike, you can make it your own a
little bit.
So like improv and do what youthink.
So you're like editing yourscript, the script being how you
were raised.
Yeah.
You're conditioning and ideologyand and I think it's like you

(16:48):
start by editing it and mayberewriting certain parts of it,
but I think it gets to the pointwhere you're like, what even is
this play?
That I'm in?
What's it about?
What do, like I don't wanna behere anymore.
that's a lot of what it means tocenter yourself, I think is
Yeah.
Identifying what it means foryou to live a good life.
What is it?
What is your life that's worthliving look like?

(17:10):
Because it's gonna be differentand it's gonna be individual.
And so yeah.
A life worth living.
Yeah, like a life that, that youthink is worth living.
Not what society thinks, notwhat your parents think, not
what your spouse or kids thinkmaybe sometimes.
And, yeah.

(17:31):
yeah, and we talked too justabout the ways you can
prioritize yourself even in likesmall ways.
Like we were talking about, justlike small ways that we can
like, prioritize ourself and dowhat we, not what we want and
not depend on somebody else forour happiness or our worth.
I was talking about, forexample, when I got laid off,

(17:57):
there was just a lot of emotionsand also just a lot of I think
without, at the risk of soundingvery woowoo, a lot of healing I
had to do.
And so I did have to take sometime to heal.
And then when I did, or evenwhen I was in the process of
doing so, I was looking at theseresumes I was sending out and I

(18:18):
was looking at my website and itwas all very like surface level.
And it was very just I'm going,it was like Jamie going through
the motions of, here is myresume, this is what I do, I am
an editor.
Words, words.
And I.
I was like, I should redo this.
So it's more me.
So not only is it like, hey,this is, these are my, this is

(18:41):
my skillset, this is myexperience.
this is what I'm good at, butalso this is what I love to do.
This is the kind of thing I'mlooking for.
and that goes for a role in acompany because especially
today, now presently, it's themost important time for you to,
if you can be picky and choosyabout who gets your money, about

(19:05):
who you work for and who you'remaking money for.
but, so I spent a lot of timereworking all that, and I got it
to a place where I was like, I'mproud of it.
Instead of I'm just like, yeah,here's my website and resume.
I am like, I'm proud of it.
And it says who I am as a persona little bit, as well as just my
professional experiencebasically.

(19:26):
And to me that was me just likeprioritizing myself.
And yeah, I dunno, I think it'sreally validating when you make
spa, when you just do the workof clearing out space.
To say, I deserve to be seen inmy authenticity, like as who I
naturally am and I get to be awhole human at work in job

(19:48):
burning views.
Like wherever you are, you getto bring your whole humanity and
your authentic self.
Yeah.
Okay.
So listening to the two of youtalk, it's interesting to me
because I'm trying to thinkthrough, but in, in my
experience, and I think this isjust coming from the autism
perspective, I've shown up as memy entire life and and it's,

(20:13):
I've been told like the, it'stoo much, but you don't, it's
like you don't know how to showup any other way.
And, for me it's not been likefinding yourself or recentering,
it's been a lot of hiding andlike back.
That's what I'm saying.
I'm not saying that I, it's, I'mnot trying to say that I was
finding myself, I'm not findingmyself.
I've fucking found myself awhile ago.

(20:34):
I'm saying that I wanted to putmore out there about who I am as
a person instead of just, hereis my resume and like portfolio
and here are the things I'm goodat for work because we do hide
parts of ourselves at work.
anyway, I just wanted to makethat clear that I wasn't saying,

(20:55):
I was like finding myself.
I, and it's interesting to whatyou're saying, Rebecca, because
I do think there's something, Ithink this is where being
neurodivergent comes in.
When you're neurodivergent, youcan't really perform the play
the script.
It's almost like you can't evenread it.
Yeah.
You don't really know whatpeople expect of you.
And the way that other peopleare able to understand that,

(21:17):
like neurotypical people.
But then it's you can still seeit.
You just don't know what theexpecta, like you don't know
what it is, but you still see,it's like something about how
people respond to you is off.
And it sounds like for you, youdid respond a little bit with
hiding, and I relate to thattoo, of like feeling really
ashamed of being goofy or loudor how we present ourselves.

(21:41):
And so I'm curious if you feellike you did start to mask over
time or just like you say, hidea little more and if maybe Yeah,
yeah.
I think that's why I was soconfused.
Not confused, but just notconnecting.
When you guys were talkingabout, it's like a play.
'cause it's yeah, I've beentrying to figure out what the
fucking rules are since I was,you know what I mean?
Like, I, I, it's never beenclear what we were in or if it

(22:07):
was a place, So I think as I gota little bit older, I have
coping mechanisms, but I don'tknow, like I, I've still really
struggled.
ma there are certain maskingthings, but just as a person,
it's like I've always just beenlike, here.
Mm-hmm.
And.

(22:27):
it's good or bad.
And most of the time it'susually bad for a lot of people,
but, it's just I love it.
I just show up too much toofast, but I don't know any other
way.
That's how you find your peoplethat also feel like they show up
too much too fast.
Yeah.
Same, I, me and Jamie weretalking about when we first met
and you said you were like, youseem like you had a lot going on

(22:48):
and you were thinking about it.
And I think it was like thethird time we had lunch together
and I was like, so you grew upin, you grew up like religious,
right?
let's talk about, let's talkabout religious drama.
Let's unpack that real quick.
Let's just unpack it.
And you're like, we just met,here's my pocket lizard.
Let's be friends.
Exactly.
So I relate to showing up like alittle too intensely at first.
Exactly.
and having that sense of okay,clearly I'm not meeting the

(23:08):
expectation, but what is theexpectation?
Even no one's explained this tome.
Thanks for the follow.
welcome.
So that really resonates for metoo.
Welcome.
Burnout.
and to me, recentering lookslike making my world a
accommodate, puttingaccommodations into my world
that let me move through theworld the way I need to.
Instead of trying, so it's not,I don't that it's it isn't

(23:30):
recentering, it's just makingthe self, making myself the main
character as far as what I need.
Yes.
And not trying to follow theplay or live or make myself
follow the play.
It's just like I.
I'm not doing any of that.
And here it is.
So yeah.
that's been a lot of just makingsure I do what works for me and

(23:54):
then being okay with that.
and that's how you not giving ashit yourself, people aren't
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
So that's just in the past fewyears, like that's what I've
really focused on just, and Iwanna do that for my kid too,
because I don't ever want her tofeel like autism is like
something that you should bedoing anything other than just
fucking existing.
Yeah.

(24:14):
yeah.
or the ways that we're like alot of coping mechanisms for a
long time that were taught topeople with a DH, adhd.
Or autism.
Were all about prioritizingeveryone else's convenience or
comfort around you.
It was, Hey, can you calm downso that we can be comfortable?
Can you, quit talking aboutthis?
I don't find it interesting.
As opposed to actually connect,like building that shared
connection.
It was like, again, forcing kindof neurotypical standards on

(24:38):
neurodivergent people doesn'twork and it's really harmful.
So aba, I'm sorry.
Yeah.
A BA therapy is a therapy typethat they use on neurodivergent
kids and it's literally teachingthem how to act.
It's like how to have, this isyour learning and behavior and
this is how you behave as aperson in the world.
it is teaching them like, Hey,you're in a play and this is who
you are.

(24:58):
And so then they're lost tothemselves for the longest time.
Like it's super fucking harmful.
Yeah.
It doesn't teach you, it doesn'tteach you to accom to make
accommodations or ask for'em.
It teaches you to like,essentially teaches you to mask
Yeah.
To mask to perform.
Yep.
hide more.
Yeah.
It's hey, you didn't get thescript, so we're gonna, we're
gonna coach you through it, asopposed to What role do you
wanna have in your life?

(25:18):
do you wanna be the creative, doyou wanna be the scientist?
something that's helped me workthrough this for myself too is
sitting with the question ofwhat are my personal values?
What's important to me that'sunique or that's not unique.
That's okay, this is somethingeveryone cares about.
And even thinking about thingslike archetypes has helped me
think about what are the kind ofroles, because they're not one

(25:40):
size fits all, but there's a lotmore roles than we talk about
that are available.
Yeah.
So thinking what roles would Iwanna play in the world?
What impact do I wanna have?
What would I like to contribute?
And also what makes, again, whatmakes me feel like myself and
like happy.
Like what, what makes me feellike I'm waking up with purpose

(26:03):
and enough joy and goodness inmy life that yeah, I can handle
being alive today.
I remember at work that therewas just some shit going on and
I was talking to my dad about itand it was like, it was bad and
I was affected by it and wasupset that it was happening.
And he was like, are you surethis is an emotional
codependence.

(26:24):
And it was like, no, I'm prettysure this is just being mad
about shit that's happening inthe world.
That's terrible.
but it's like that kind ofmoving through the world and
when you do find out what'simportant to you, you still get
people who are like, are yousure?
It's not like this kind of badthing.
It's like, no, no, this isimportant.
And that's interesting too, is Ithink that, what you're talking

(26:46):
about is actually I think alittle bit of a boundaries thing
where We like are looking toother people to tell us about
ourselves and we almost trustwhat they say.
Yes, thank you about us and ourintent more than we believe our
own intent.
And I had an experience at workthat was like this where I was,
they'd made some changes that Ifelt were really unfair to the
writers and were reallystressing everybody out.

(27:07):
Mm-hmm.
And I was kind of being a stickin the mud about it because I
was just like, this is notworking and I just need to be
real honest with that.
Mm-hmm.
Because.
I am try.
I'm genuinely giving this a goodfaith effort and it's not
working.
I feel like the changes you madeare genuinely making everyone do
way more work and making thework more stressful than they
were and harder it was.
That's true.
It was.

(27:28):
But that's the thing iseventually it got to a point
where I had this difficultconversation with my manager and
they took it in a way wherethey're like, you're trying to
cause problems, you're beingdisruptive to the team, or
you're trying to get less work.
Yes.
That's something that I've runinto a lot for me.
Yeah.
Where like they view your intentof they don't, they don't really
view, so I know I'm workoperating in good faith.

(27:49):
But like they didn't, there wasnot that assumption of intent
and part of why that, and thatmessed me up.
I had a breakdown.
That's when I initially went totherapy was over this situation
and I realized, as I processedthis afterward, I realized part
of what was so damaging aboutthat was that this guy told,
this manager told me about who Ihad been at work and what my

(28:12):
intent was, and I believed himover my own self despite having
that day-to-day experience ofI'm just really frustrated, this
isn't working.
Mm-hmm.
I'm not trying to be as sick inthe mud, I'm just trying to help
myself and my coworkers be ableto function well in our jobs.
It was like, to him, he was justso upset about it and the situ,
it was like, I don't know.

(28:33):
and I think that's really hardis to like hand people's stuff
back to them and draw thatboundary of Just because you
don't get what I'm trying to dohere doesn't make it not what
I'm trying to do.
Yeah.
Thank you.
That's a much more eloquent wayof the point that I was trying
to make.
Yeah.
People be projecting, Elyssagoes, yeah, no, yeah, I know.
No, I just heard what you saidand I was like, yeah, whatever.

(28:57):
I'm a comically friend.
Okay.
Thank you guys.
Let me have my shining moments.
And we talked about too, likegetting comfortable with who you
are and being comfortable, likedoing things without other
people and just being in thequiet And stillness with just
you and learning to be okay andeven appreciative of that.

(29:17):
And enjoy your own self.
Yeah.
Even if you're an extrovert.
Yeah.
Elyssa, I, no, that's true.
I really value alone time.
And it's really funny becauseeven as an extrovert, like my
alone time's gonna lookdifferent than your alone time.
I really going to a coffee shopby myself and sitting and I'm
still around people.

(29:38):
I'm still feeling like I'm partof my community.
So it's filling me up in thatI'm not stuck at home and
feeling trapped.
That's helpful in that way.
But I'm also like prioritizingmyself.
I have a, some, like a,something I wanna journal about
or a project that I'm workingon.
And Rebecca, you had mentionedthat part of how what you do for
this is like taking time off ofwork.

(29:59):
For yourself.
Yep.
Yep.
I just, I give myself eitherhalf days or full days and I,
again, I forget about them.
And then it's a fun littlesurprise, but I spend the day
doing whatever the fuck I wantand sometimes it's, and it's not
'cause my kid is like lying inbed all day.
Yes.
It's not a family emergency.
It's not'cause I'm going onvacation.

(30:19):
It's just like a little specialtreat day for a little special
guy kind of thing.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And you get your house toyourself.
You actually get to be alonewhile everyone's at school or at
work.
I get to watch stupid movies.
I get to cuddle on the couchwith the dogs.
And the other thing I've noticedis I've really stopped, I can't
remember the last time that I'vebeen like, I hope everything at

(30:39):
work is okay.
Or being afraid to take the dayoff.
I'm like, fuck yes, I'm takingthe day off.
Oh my God, you're growing.
And I'm so proud of you.
I know.
Because it's I'm gonna get laidoff anyway, whether or not I'm
there and I would rather enjoythis time to myself.
And so that's made it,especially that, that time is,
that has made the time I takeoff spec more special because

(31:01):
it's like I actually enjoy itand I don't have a nagging voice
at the back of my head.
Mm-hmm.
That's really nice.
It's like you, you created thoseinternal boundaries of that's
this is my time.
Not Yeah.
Yeah.
And that's so important becauseyou can, when you do, like we've
talked, you've talked about thison the podcast, when you do that
intellectual work, you take yourbrain with you.
So it's if it's in your brain,you're working everywhere.

(31:23):
So being able to Exactly.
Have that internal boundary ofno, I'm not thinking about that.
That's now it's fucking hard'shard.
It took me years to developthat.
What's that been like for you?
It's been very difficult.
I think just within, you cancorrect me if I'm wrong.
Rebecca, but I think I helpedRebecca A.
Little bit start to pull awayand take days off because she

(31:45):
was never taking even likevacation days.
Yeah.
And, yeah.
Or for you, like I know when Iwas applying for jobs a lot, I
had to set a good enoughstandard with myself.
Yes.
To be like, yeah, once I havedone good enough, once I've
applied to certain jobs a dayWhatever my goal is, I get to

(32:06):
stop thinking about it.
I get to step away.
I like, I'm still gonna worryabout it, but as much as I'm not
gonna choose to worry about it.
If it comes up in my brain, ifit's like, Ugh, groceries, I
gotta pay for them.
I don't have a job.
that's gonna happen, but I'm notgonna sit there and stew about
it.
Hopefully.
I think we talked about this inour productivity episode, but

(32:27):
one other thing that I do tohelp prioritize my shit is I
started, and that's something Ijust started within the last
like year or two, probably justa year.
Is, you have your meetings forwork, you have your work
calendar with all your meetingsand everything.
I started blocking for mypersonal shit.
If I was gonna go meet a friendfor dinner, I'd add it to my
calendar.
Oh my gosh.

(32:47):
Her mind is blown.
She's, I've never done this.
I've tried, but not recently.
it's great.
blocking off Genius.
When we were starting to discusswhat we were gonna do before the
Burnout Collective was theBurnout Collective, blocked off
that time every Saturday.
And I also put that specificallyon my work calendar so I could
see, you know what, this sucks.

(33:07):
But that's what I get at the endof the week.
Sorry.
It's like I'm trying to likesquish your face or something.
No.
but at the end of the, likeduring the week, I just look at
that and I'm like, sweet.
I get to hang out with, my bestfriend and talk about our
business and like what we wantto do.
And be creative and do what wewant for us and the community.

(33:28):
That's it.
That is, isn't it?
the freedom to do what I want,like at work, we don't get to do
what we want.
Yeah.
And not, and even on days offsometimes.
Yeah.
And not needing anyone's buy-in,Yeah.
We talked about doing thingslike going to coffee shop, but
you talked about going to amovie by yourself or Rebecca
does that.
Not skipping like a concert justbecause you can't find a friend

(33:48):
who wants to go with.
And that's hard to do.
I was telling them I went to amusic festival.
My partner at the time would notgo with me, wasn't interested.
I didn't have any friends thatwere interested.
And it was also like expensivetoo.
So like I can't expect likeeveryone to be like, yeah, I'm
gonna drop this much on thisthree day music festival.
last minute, my sibling ended upcoming with me for the last day,
but for those three days Ididn't know anyone.

(34:08):
I just I think I posted onsocials and asked at work if
anybody was going.
And luckily I had a couplefriends who were, who were
going.
So like I got to see them andthen I went with one of my other
friends who was very gracious tohang out with me.
I think Cinnamon roll.
'cause I was just, yeah, Idunno.
A lot older.

(34:29):
I was a lot older than Chris.
you were steepest some shimmywith the Hello Fellow kids?
Yeah.
The skateboard over yourshoulder basically.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I'm like, we're at a concert.
I was like, there's our friendGreg.
Hi Greg.
He's stop it.
It was more like stomach.
Hi Greg.
Just let Greg go.
If we see him later, we see himlater.
But even that is that's totallysomething I would do.

(34:50):
I don't know.
I don't, that's not something Iwould normally do is go to a
concert or a movie by myself.
Oh.
I meant yelling across a crowdto get someone's attention.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's very, it's everyone'sembarrassment.
Yep.
But I don't know, I'm tired ofmanaging everyone in this house,
and everyone at work.
At work and at, yeah.
I just wanna go away where noone can ask me a question.

(35:12):
I.
And talk to me and I get to likeagain.
Yeah, you're right.
It's just doing what you want.
I get to make my own choices forme and I don't have to make'em
for anyone else or tell anyonewhat to do, but myself.
And yeah.
I think it's like boundariestoo.
Oh, do you keep saying that?
Boundaries where it'll leave.
I'm sorry About boundaries.
I guess boundaries is like weNo, I'm just saying.

(35:33):
I'm just saying.
I know.
I don't no.
It's not about you not havingbad, it's like it's something
that's been really hard for meto work and I think it's
everything we're talking about.
Yeah.
Like it's about understandingwhere I end and other people
begin understanding that's yourwork Yes.
To do or that's your life tomanage.
And also because I'm trying tolike manage your life.

(35:53):
What is going unattended inmine?
What is right?
what needs are.
Just I'm abandon.
In what ways am I justabandoning myself to manage
everyone around me And I thinkthat's a very common experience
for a lot of people andespecially women.
Yeah.
So yeah.
Marina.
Yeah.
Marina says it's easier toopenly weep at the movies when
you go by yourself.

(36:14):
That's true.
Also, it's go by yourself.
You can get what you want.
You don't have to share yourpopcorn or your pretzel.
I did go see Wicked at theholidays with some family
members.
And I was like so annoyedwalking outta there.
'cause I literally was like, Ican, I just sit down and just
cry for 10 minutes straight?
And I felt like I couldn't.
Oh no.
I probably should have.
Yeah.
But I'm also like, we are liketrying to celebrate Christmas

(36:35):
together as a family.
That maybe not that, maybe thatwas the container moment.
It's okay.
I don't need to, I don't knowwho needs to hear this.
Yes, Elyssa.
Yes.
But it's okay to openly cry atmovies.
Also though, does Aunt Elyssaneed to be sitting down and
crying, like bawling for 10minutes straight?
And how will that impact if youwere my aunt, I would be like,

(36:57):
Aw.
I'd just be like, oh cool.
An adult that actually hasemotions.
Maybe.
Maybe I'll try it next time.
Kids, I'll try it next time.
Are there any kids here?
Kids, what do you think?
What do you think when you're,when your mother cries?
Yeah.
Your children actually.
Yeah.
My children.
and that's a good point.
I feel like the reallyinteresting thing as a parent is
because of my kids aresocialized so differently than

(37:18):
me.
they're the pre people whoremind me of my values because
they've been raised in alignmentwith them.
And so sometimes it has been mykids reminding me it's okay to
cry.
It's okay to feel like it's okayto, we all get grumpy sometimes.
And sometimes they're the onesbeing like, contain it.
Contain it.
and still sometimes we cry infront of I'll cry in front of
you guys sometimes and just belike, yeah.

(37:39):
And be like, I'm sorry.
It's like why it's a default toapologize for it.
No, again, like when she cries,I steal her tears.
My kids don't, I watch em lookat me to you bet.
Get an emotional check-in.
if I'm crying or like I watchher check me to see like what,
to read the emotionaltemperature.
you're like, pick me.
I know.

(37:59):
you're like, I'm autistic too.
Don't pick me.
Just kidding.
I know.
I'm glad your kids are like,it's okay to cry because we're
just like so well, and I thinkpart of and not a good person to
watch for that.
I think part of it too is you,when you start giving yourself
permission to do things, you canlike communicate that permission
to people.
So yes, kids just don't knowwhat to do when you're crying.

(38:20):
They're like, what's happening?
The person I count on foreverything is upset it.
So then when I have gotten tothe place of acceptance, I say,
can say, Hey, I'm having a hardtime.
I'm just gonna cry.
'cause that's honestly the bestoption available to me right
now.
And also it's okay.
It'll help me just let it out.
Yep.
And so just gimme a minute.
Honestly, most people should,people should cry more in

(38:41):
public.
this is how I'm helping myselfright now.
You don't help have to doanything because this is the
help.
Now she tell me if you want,I've been doing shit for three
days and she is don't.
And again, I don't know thatwould work for every kid.
That's what works with me and mykids.
I don't wanna act like this islike a universal solution.
Oh no.
Yeah, I get it.
I'm joking with you.

(39:02):
In case you didn't know.
I didn't, I don't think I evenheard it.
you just roast me constantly.
I don't know.
I roast everybody constantly.
I would cry in public if it wasaccepted.
This is JJ by the way.
I would cry in public.
I think more people should cryin public.
But it is yeah, we have thatlike fear of people are, yeah.
I'm the wrong person to be inthis conversation because again,
as I had an tic meltdown in theDC Metro and was sobbing

(39:26):
uncontrollably, just the entireway through, that's what I mean.
It's just like going through theworld, just like blah, just
ugly.
And but have you not wanted tocry out in public and not cried?
I literally cried live on thispodcast, so I don't know what
you're talking about.
There's no evidence of that.
There's no, she's my best friendever, Jamie.

(39:49):
So I think that's part of it.
Yeah.
I wonder like, how do we createspace for ourselves to cry in
public?
we need crying spaces in public.
But then you still inter likeevery DMV should have a crying
building next to it with acourtyard.
Like a nice fountain, honestly.
And we can Starbucks, we can allsit by the fountain and every

(40:10):
Starbucks.
Oh yeah, Starbucks is a goodone.
They need to do some re Oh, itshould be like Starbucks where
there's one on every corner.
Look, they just could be theirreparations for being awful as a
company.
Yeah.
I say imagine crying atStarbucks, the barista, which is
like, ew, what is the wrong withher?
She's crying.
ma'am, you're gonna have toleave cause you ma'am, ma'am,
ma'am.
Rebecca's fm mim.

(40:31):
You just, you can't do that.
Here you are making the otherpatrons uncomfortable.
Patrons get out.
Yeah.
Marina says, I just cry oncompany time.
Get paid for my tears, which Ilove.
Coincidentally, that's also whatMarina does with pooping.
this is, yeah, all bodilyfunctions happen on company
time.
All of them.
Yeah.

(40:52):
But I think that part of thereason that we're not
comfortable crying in public orthat we hold it in is because we
have that experience of beingshamed.
And I'm wondering, I think partof centering yourself is kind of
handing people shame back tothem and saying, cool, that
you're uncomfortable with this.
I feel perfectly felt like it'sa perfectly fine and acceptable
thing to cry in public.

(41:12):
Like I this, and I almost amthinking about it as
rehumanizing myself, givingmyself permission, be fully
human wherever I am, and handingthat shame back to people or the
judgment back to people andsaying, just because you judged
me for crying in public that'syour thing.
Yeah, I know this is okay, and Iknow there's nothing wrong with
this.
And so that's the thing too, islike sometimes you can't stop

(41:34):
crying in public because you doget emotional.
But then it's like managing theaftermath of, am I gonna sit
here and feel embarrassed andashamed, or am I gonna be like,
that was okay?
This is normal human, this is mecoaching myself.
Like I literally do this.
I sit here and be like, it'sokay to be human.
Yeah.
It's okay to need to havefeelings.

(41:55):
JJ says, it's very scary forpeople to feel judged, which is
very likely to happen in public,especially if you become
vulnerable.
And a way of becoming vulnerableis crying.
Exactly.
Vulnerability is a lot of it.
Yeah.
Have you ever, have either ofyou ever seen someone out in
public crying, not like a child,but like an adult and gone up to

(42:17):
them like a stranger?
Not that I can think ofspecifically, but I think I have
either seeing someone check onit, check on them, or like I've
been like, Hey, are you doingokay?
can I help?
A lot of times people say no.
Yeah, I've done that a handfulof times in my life, and

(42:38):
sometimes it's a struggle.
Because I don't wanna make themfeel like, because I know that's
such a vulnerable thing, right?
And so if I, if somebody'scrying in public, I feel like
this is bad.
So I think that's why I get thepull to like.
Go say something.
I don't, it's not that I seepeople crying in public often, I

(42:58):
really don't.
But a handful of times I have,and I think like a couple of the
times it was like welcomed andthey were just like, yeah, I'm
okay.
I just have to get this out orwhatever.
One of the times they wereprobably like, oh, my credit
card doesn't work and I can'tpay for my gas and blah blah.
And I'm like, okay, you're fine.
Here's like the$5.

(43:19):
but there has been a time wherethey've been like, no, I don't
need anything.
please, which re respect, butit's hard at least for me to see
that and not check on theperson.
Yeah.
I think that speaks to as wellthe ways that we're taught to
see or not see other people orif we're taught like how we're,

(43:43):
like how we internalize theversions of us that are okay to
be seen and how comfortable weare being seen or not seen.
Like again, it goes back to thatper performance feeling of am I
living and experiencing my lifeor am I always thinking about
how I'm being perceived?
and my sister and I even talkedabout this with when it comes to

(44:06):
religious trauma, but like we'retaught like God is a voyeur and
he's just always watching you.
Yeah.
And for me at least, Iinternalized that in this way of
like constantly checking of whatwould God think of my choices?
What, having this Audi invisibleaudience for all the choices I
was making and centering thatguy's opinion over what I
thought.
And so that's a lot.

(44:27):
But I think we all have a lot ofversions of what would my dead
grandma think about me and whoI've become?
Would she be proud of me?
Would she be not?
You know, and yeah, pat says, Iactively avoid being seen at all
costs.
And JJ says, that's respectable.
Love it.
What are you thinking, Rebecca?
No, I'm still working on it.

(44:48):
Come back to me.
Yeah.
Okay.
I think some of being seen too,we talked about like
prioritizing your own taste andhow you present yourself and how
you make choices, like Makingshaving my legs optional.
Making wearing makeup.
Optional.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Making it so that I can chooseto not wear makeup and not feel

(45:10):
like I feel a little more puttogether.
And it's easier to be seen ifI'm wearing makeup, but.
I'll show up to a work meetingwithout makeup and not, I want,
I don't feel, I don't thinkabout it anymore.
It's not even it's this is fine.
People can see my naked face.
Yeah.
It's not, Yeah.
It's not offensive.
I'm saying.
Yeah.
like I agree with that, yeah,totally.

(45:30):
And you don't have to, that'sthe thing is yeah.
For me that was important.
It's what you're, yeah.
What you're comfortable withwhat you want.
no.
I know.
I just, no, and it, that's whatI mean.
I was just like nodding along, Ido that too, and I'm being a
fucking hypocrite.
I do not.
That's okay.
It's okay.
We knew you were lying.
I know.
I knew I was lying and callmyself out on that.
Yeah.

(45:50):
But even I don't know, should Idye my gray hair?
I actually noticed for the firsttime Ever that you have some
like pretty silver hairs.
I have so many gray hairs rightnow.
It doesn't look like that manythat, but dude, they're so
sparkly.
They are.
They're beautiful.
I know.
I think they're really cute.
I like summer hairs.
It took me a long time to get mymom to stop dying her hair, as

(46:14):
if it was like up to me.
But I'm glad she did.
I think she looks beautiful justlike that.
I think.
I really think gray hair'sbeautiful.
Yeah.
One day I'll figure out if Ihave gray hair or Yeah.
What?
Yeah.
And just.
Not doing the male gaze thing asmuch, hopefully.
No, you're just doing what youwant.

(46:36):
It's, I think we were talkingabout that earlier.
It's like I've, it's been so thepast couple years of going, I
don't wanna do that.
And just not, or I want to dothis and just doing what you
wanna do.
it's, I don't care if anyoneelse doesn't like it, I like,
you know what I mean?
Yeah.
It's just that it's so freeing.
Or you don't have to, you don'thave to spend your time doing
shit.

(46:56):
You don't.
'cause we're, again, I think Isaid earlier, we're all gonna be
dead anyway, so I don't wannaspend my time doing shit I don't
wanna do.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think that's it too.
just like we're getting olderand we're like, why?
How many, yeah.
How many hours of my life am Ispending on shit that I don't
care about?
And again, some people love theskincare.
That's, feels like skincare.

(47:16):
It feels like love, it feelslike all these things.
And for other people, they'relike, Rebecca, just some
moisturizer on and be done.
I love skincare.
I'm not gonna lie, I do that.
but it's really interesting.
I don't know.
Yeah.
I think anytime that you takecare of yourself also, it's like
a, I've thought about this too,of centering yourself sometimes
is as simple as giving yourselfa front row seat to watching

(47:39):
yourself.
Put yourself first or make yourtreat yourself as if you matter
and you're important.
And that can be like.
prioritizing the things that youcare about.
keeping promises to yourself,like following through on your
like, oh, I always wanted,that's a big one.
Do this.
That's a big, and you talkedabout this, Rebecca, of how in
your house that you're in now,one of the things that you like,

(48:02):
wanted to do was start a gardenand you'd, had you been thinking
about that for a long time?
Oh yeah.
when we were living in Arizona,it's like we had what could grow
out there, but it's just likeyou couldn't really do much with
it, you know?
And so it was when we weremoving back to, to Washington
State, we kept talking aboutwhat we wanted to plant and,

(48:22):
what we wanted to see when welooked out in the backyards.
And one of the things they havearound here is you can get your
yards, certified as like awildlife, oh fuck not sanctuary.
I don't know what it's called,but it's like it's it's all
native stuff.
And so I was like, I want that.
Like, it was just wild and freeand fun, and it just looked so
lush and I was like, I justwanna plant whatever I wanna

(48:45):
plant.
And so our yard is this weirdhodgepodge of all different
shit, but I hodgepodge,hodgepodge of just all different
shit.
But it's it makes me happy and Ilove looking at it and again, I
will say this out loud, Rob doesthe heavy lifting, I do the
direction and management.
So just, I don't wanna like.
Stole gardening valor.

(49:07):
Oh please.
Speaking of reparations, yousaid little ferns growing in
your wall and the hummingbirdscome and visit.
We had a hummingbird like yes.
Remember when I told you Elyssaand I were having like therapy
and I was crying?
Me too.
And we took turns.
Yeah.
That was earlier today.
And my window was open and myback was to the window, but she
was facing it over here and shewas like, look.

(49:28):
And a hummingbird was just therestaring at us.
Yeah.
It's so cute.
It stayed there for 30, look atthis seconds.
Two was like, no, it was like,Jamie, why don't you ever
fucking feed us anymore?
What is wrong with you?
I'm like, depression.
Which I then called back toRebecca's conversation'cause you
were like my neighbor again,centering ourselves.
My neighbors say don't feed thehummingbirds.

(49:51):
Yeah.
Oh yeah.
That's a huge thing.
Don't fucking feed the birdshere.
Don't feed the birds because itmakes them lazy and fat.
And I'm like, I will feed the, Ilove seeing it's everywhere.
Like every fucking forum, every,it's don't feed the birds.
It's bad for them.
And I'm like, I will feed thegoddamn birds if I want.
Yeah.
Because A, it's food for themand I see them and I love them

(50:13):
and it's bought like blue jaysand we have a all black one with
orange F.
Like it's just fucking cool towatch an Oreo.
I sound so old right now.
No you don't.
You sound like a dizzy princess.
Actually.
No, it was a squirrel.
She's a Disney.
So you sound it.
So you sound 17 I'll, I willfeed the God birds if I want to.
Yes.
And I will give the crowspeanuts and I will feed the
squirrels and.

(50:34):
I want my yard to be like ahappy place where everyone has a
snack.
And I like looking at it.
I can't hear you when you talkfuckers.
I am literally talking tomyself.
Oh, perfect.
I'm so sorry.
I'll ignore it.
Then.
I'm literally over here justlike singing a rendition of
about birds of it's my party andI'll cry if I want to.
And I was just like singing itvery quietly and I'm sorry.

(50:56):
I, yeah.
Feeding wildlife with nonappropriate food is really bad,
but with bird seed and sue it,et cetera, it's perfectly fine.
Exactly.
Yeah.
That's what we're talking about.
We're not like, here's thatbunch of white, wonder Bread ate
this Hummingbird.
Hummingbird.
Yeah.
but I love what you talked abouttoo, because okay, how you're

(51:16):
talking about it, you're like,I'm gonna put what I want in my
backyard and I'm not reallygonna care.
And that's so powerful that Ilove that too, because it's
like, who even experiences yourgarden the most?
It's, you, like people will comeover and see it, but you're the
person who's staring at it everyfreaking day.
Yeah.
So it makes sense to make itexactly what fills you up and
what makes you feel good and youha and you feel like I can step

(51:40):
outside and have a moment.
It's like your body and yourimage.
Like it should be what makes youhappy and what makes you
comfortable.
Yeah.
And also what serves your needslike.
I'm sure you go into yourgarden.
I can imagine that you go intoyour garden and it's like your
nervous system responds and thenthe birds braider hair, you feel
calmer.
Like you, I think there's a lotof wisdom in what we want.
Like you knew on some levelthere's something about having a

(52:02):
garden, having it a certain way.
Yeah.
That fool fulfill me and like, Ifucking love that you just went
forward and did it without like,uh oh, you know what Elyssa, I
hear you and I so appreciatethat take.
I can't wait for as you weretalking.
Wait.
Yeah, it's actually just spitebecause our HOA is made up of a
bunch of dicks and so I justwant, even the front yard, it's

(52:24):
just filled with a shit ton offlowers and weird shit
everywhere.
And I, I actually think what I'mdoing is spite based.
Yes.
And not internal joy based.
See, but Rebecca, but that'swhat makes you happy is being
spiteful.
That is true.
That is true.
Okay.
I That is very true.
You know what?
Let's wait Rebecca.
What healthy I am doing makeshappy.
What a healthy way to respectyour demand.

(52:45):
Avoidance.
Right?
Self, self-care out spite is thebest to bel.
You could rebel by like blowingup your life, but No, you're
like, actually I'm gonna make agarden and I'm gonna make it
beautiful and fuck you.
There's again, there's evenwisdom in that there's something
there that you need.
You need to know what I careabout.
Like what matters to me mattersmore than the HOA.

(53:07):
Yeah.
that's a way to center yourself.
Yes.
Do you take care of yourselfoutta spite ever?
I'm just laughing that we'retalking about I love it.
Yeah.
Saying fuck you to the h hoa youbrought yourself that shower
head like you did take care ofyourself outta spite.
Oh yeah.
That's out of spite.
Wait, why is that outta spite.
No, you're right.

(53:28):
Maybe not.
'cause you didn't have a job andyou were still like, you were
like, I'm gonna buy it anyway.
And.
I thought I bought it.
Was I already laid off.
Did you?
I literally am like, I think,don't you buy it for personal
time reasons?
Is that what we're saying?
Many reasons.
Oh, no, it's, no, that's what Ithought she was getting at.
And I was like, what are you?
no.
And I was like, why Spitethough.
Dirty Minds.

(53:48):
Cheers.
I think this is for me, a part,been a part of like my
anti-capitalist deconstructionthat I'm going through.
And I know likedeconstruction's, whatever, but
just like deprogramming myselffrom capitalism has been, giving
myself permission to do thingsthat are a waste of time, simply

(54:09):
because they make me happy.
And I think for you, like thegardening, that's what resonated
to me about the gardening.
And for me it's looked a lot.
Yeah.
you're crocheting, right?
Yes.
Like you're making like a ton.
Mm-hmm.
I've been crocheting lately.
I'm not making a ton because I'mmaking a lot of mistakes, so
there's a lot of gotta back up.
Okay.
Making progress.
Oh, that looks bad.
Gotta back up.
But I'm learning.

(54:29):
Its really nice.
That's like us with the podcast,and I could explain all the
benefits of crocheting, butlet's, we don't need to do that.
Just know that, like I get somuch out of it.
It's so relaxing.
I feel creative.
you want help girl?
I know a guy.
See, I told you it.
Me, she's the guy.
Yeah, that's right.
Fair enough.
Jeremy told me you crochet.
I would love that.
Let's do it.
but like crocheting or for awhile it was like painting.

(54:50):
And even when I was painting,like I would notice, I really
like painting flowers.
So when you said hellebore, Iknow exactly what that is
because I painted a lot offlowers and so I painted
hellebore.
Mm-hmm.
And it is fucking gorgeous.
I love it.
But even when I was paintingflowers, I felt is this serious
art?
Is this make, is this good?
Is this too girly?
Is this too this too that?
And or even as I startedpainting a lot, having people

(55:12):
say oh, are you gonna sell yourpaintings?
Are you gonna like, you know,like having kind of this
inherent question of is thisthing worth doing if you're not
monetizing it?
And I know they weren't.
I don't think that was theirintent.
But I do think there's thatinherent like assumption of if
what you're doing isn't to makemoney, that was one of those.
It's to, you have to make itworthwhile.

(55:34):
It's not worth, you have to makeit.
Yeah.
It's not like you having a,something you having a good time
is not enough inherent value.
You need to also be earningmoney, which is true.
Ironic because making money fromit is exactly what makes me
fucking hate it.
Yes.
It's like meeting Shady Vance.
Yeah.
And then dying the next day.

(55:55):
You said ironic.
I have to, I hope my death isthat epic.
I really do.
I really do.
That.
That would be petty as fuckingdying out of, dying, out of
spite.
So that's how Rebecca will die.
Speaking of centering myself, Itell you what, that guy died and
nobody could talk about anythingelse.
So good for him.
No, good for the Pope.
That'll show him the old Pope.

(56:16):
He loves me.
I hope I, when I die, everyonetalks about me for a week.
Matt, JD Vance died the next,and Jamie sings a parody song
about my death.
I would love to.
Goals.
Oh, I would love to.
Oh listen.
Rebecca's death, like herfuneral, is gonna be this
multimedia event.
I have kept so many voicemailsand voice messages, photos,

(56:38):
videos, video messages.
Rebecca, how do you feel aboutthis?
She loves it.
She's smart.
Really?
I mean, she's dead again.
I will.
I'm sorry.
I She will eat it.
Okay.
I love this.
Okay.
you can help and I would tellyou what I think to your face
anyway, so I'll let you usetheor a voicemail.
That's true.
That's true.

(56:58):
It's we'll be like, yep.
That's the Rebecca we knew andloved.
Didn't hide anything.
Again, whatever they hear in avoicemail from me, I've already
said to them.
So it's fun.
I think.
I don't care.
When I started my photographyhobby, I feel like that's all I
heard.
Are you planning to monetizethis somehow?
Yeah.
Yes.
I think it's really radical in acapitalist society to say this
matters and is worth my time andinvestment simply because I

(57:21):
fucking enjoy it.
Yeah.
And I don't need any furtherjustification.
Oh my God.
Just describe the premise ofrent.
This is the whole premise ofrent.
You guys, you just describedrent and we come back to
Rebecca's passion of I alsomusicals.
I've also never seen rent, so ifyou could like, not spoil it for
me Yeah.
Would be great.
Okay.
The dog dies at the end.
So this is one of the uselesshobbies I have is curating

(57:44):
playlists again for me only, butI do listen to music constantly.
And so it is, I have spenthours, you guys hours to the
point where I think there wasone day where I was supposed to
be putting my kids to bed and I,it was like, oh, it's 10.
'cause I was sitting there whichsong goes into the next one?

(58:04):
Do you listen to the end?
And then the beginning of Yes, Ido that.
Yes, you have to do I do that.
Exactly.
And it's so fun.
You gotta to arrange it.
Maybe that's how arrangearranging things is fun.
It's just neurodiversity.
Yeah.
It's it's just like organizing,right?
Yeah.
So it's yeah.
And then at the end you havesomething that sounds really
beautiful and there's a, I likehaving different moods in my

(58:26):
playlist.
So it's like the beginning islike hype and we're getting.
and then you go into some chillfolk music and then there's some
funk in there or whatever.
I don't know.
I like it.
So some death metal.
And that was something that Isat there judging myself for.
Like, why am I spending hours ifcome to daddy?

(58:46):
But I'm like, if I would do thisfor a boyfriend, Or yeah.
My spouse, why not do it formyself?
Yeah.
You know?
Well that's basically the,that's basically the this year
version of what we would do withCDs back in high school where we
would just make playlists andthen burn CDs for each other of
all the perfect songs thatyou've picked.
Yeah.

(59:08):
But doing that for myself.
Nice.
See, I don't do that for myselfwhen I make playlists for other
people.
I do the whole like making itflow perfectly for myself.
I'm just like, I love all theseand I'm throwing them on there.
And I don't organize'em formyself.
Yeah.
Do you like listening tolistening on shuffle though?
Because sometimes it can, I'mnot usually a shuffle person.
I like the surprise.

(59:28):
No, I like a surprise.
I don't like knowing what'scoming next.
You like a surprise?
I like a surprise song.
I'd like a surprise song.
Okay.
Because I don't like knowing theplaylist.
You like a surprise song.
Okay.
Yeah.
I like a surprise song.
Yeah.
Try doing it sometimes.
I don't know.
Make yourself like a curate itfor myself.
It's just so much work done.
It is like when I'm doing it forsomeone else.

(59:49):
And you're worth the work too.
I know, but when I'm doing itfor someone else, it's I love
you.
Yeah.
and then I'm doing it for me.
It's I know I love me.
Like I'm awesome.
I don't that I don't need to woomyself.
Do you guys listen to albums?
I feel like nobody listens toalbums with me anymore.
I would like a full album.
You would?
What is that?
I would just, so the answer'sno, she doesn't.

(01:00:10):
Okay.
actually, Ash's nice.
Actually, Ash, I believeyesterday I was like, Hey Jamie,
can we listen?
Can I put on records?
And did we listen to the wholealbum?
And I was ready to get out astack of 10 records.
I Okay.
And put them all in.
But that's start to finish.
thank you for bringing up mydrama.
I love it.
But that's okay.
but you were like, that willstress me out because my record

(01:00:30):
player is buried and I'm like,my record player is literally on
the storage room shelf.
So you're doing better than menow.
I gotta clean out that littlecorner.
You don't So we can playrecords.
No, I'm going to now.
'cause here's what I did.
I was like, what record did Iwanna play?
And then I was like, Alexa, playthis record.
Don't fucking talk to her rightnow.
Sorry if I talk sorry foreveryone whose device I just

(01:00:52):
turned on.
So Ash listens to albums all theway through.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I like that.
I definitely do.
Sometimes I'm an album girl.
What's the last album that youreally liked?
Like a new album?
Or just an old one that you gotreally into, doesn't matter
everything.
metric Live Out Loud.
That's a good, that's a goodalbum.

(01:01:15):
One of my favorites.
Nice.
Does it live out loud?
What about you?
Me?
What about you Elyssa?
Yeah.
Jack.
I have, oh, I shared an albumwith you called Songs For Every
Mood by Jax Anderson.
It's something like that.
That one's really good.
Start to finish great album.

(01:01:35):
and then, but late I, I had beenon SA Taylor Swift binge Bender
for two straight years.
There is something about the wayshe puts word to the experience
that I'm like, my soul isspeaking to me right now.
I understand myself more deeply.
So the tortured poets departmentis, has been on repeat for a

(01:01:58):
long time, which I feel likehopefully none of you are
swifties because I feel like I'mtelling on myself a lot with
that.
But whatever, it's a depressingalbum is what I'm saying.
Okay.
It's Rebecca and I are like, wedon't listen to, we don't know.
We dunno.
It's a very depressing album.
Oh.
So that's fine.

(01:02:19):
But yeah, speaking of pressingalbums are good doing things
because they're important toyou.
I feel like the podcast youmentioned, the podcast has been
that for you.
Yeah.
Like your creative outlet.
Your passion project.
Yeah.
For both of us.
It's just been like, I thinkit's also opened up a world for
us to be more creative in likedifferent ways too, in other
parts of our lives.
But, we really.
We really prioritize.

(01:02:40):
Am I not supposed to look at youin person?
No, you can look at me.
Is you?
I just felt you looking at meand it felt weird.
So I was like, what does she do?
Is she do not perceive me?
I was like, okay, I'll look atyou in the screen.
Sorry.
you can look at me however youwant.
except not like that.
Just kidding.
But yeah, we've reallyprioritized the podcast and
prioritized, we prioritizedmeeting about the podcast and

(01:03:04):
making sure that we go throughwith it and, yeah, that's it.
I guess we just prioritize.
Yeah.
And like, how often do we haveideas and then we don't do shit
about them.
All that sucks.
And like, how many work projectshave I been forced to see
through and project plan andcommit to, and then never apply
that to anything personal?

(01:03:25):
Yeah, no.
and that's something that I wasthinking about recently is how
much time and effort I have putinto being a productive good
employee.
And I'm like, did have Iapplied?
Do I do that with myself in mypersonal life?
Yeah.
am I sitting there thinking am Ion track with this project?
What needs to be reprioritized?
And I don't wanna run my lifelike that.
That's for work, but.

(01:03:47):
Maybe a certain version of thatwould be like, I don't know.
It's like trying to, I don'tknow what I'm saying.
Hopefully you do.
I'm not there.
But I guess like the ways thatI've been willing to stretch and
grow To be a good employee andthen looking at my personal life
and being like, why am I notstretching and growing to be a
better me?
Yeah.
Like for me, or to be able tofollow through on the

(01:04:11):
commitments that I make of Idon't know, live streaming on my
book club every week.
Yeah.
Which I'm not, which I'm takinga break from currently.
And that's okay.
But that's something I wanna getback.
That's prioritizing yourselftoo.
That's true.
Taking a break from things whenyou need to and knowing like
when to take a break and likewhen saying no to when to step
back to shit you don't wanna do.
Saying No, that's such a bigone, dude.

(01:04:31):
Yeah.
People.
That's actually how we, I made,oh, go ahead.
No, I understand.
I've made specific appointmentsor meetings non-negotiables for
myself.
Like therapy, non-negotiable.
Mm-hmm.
I'm going, I'm showing up andI'm not getting rid of that
time.
And like, because to your point,it's like you bend and stretch

(01:04:51):
all the ways at work and thenit, you're totally empty.
And I hate going back to thefilling up your cup thing, but
the only thing that's gonna fillup my cup is focusing on myself.
And so that is mynon-negotiables.
I go to therapy, I go to the gymlike.
I am taking care of me, and thatis it.
And I will make you money later.
But right now, like my lifegrowth has to match.

(01:05:13):
Yeah.
Because otherwise, again,burnout, that's Yeah.
Exactly.
What happens.
And that's, and that's whyplaces that have done the four
day work week and companies thatactually take care of their
employees, get more out of theiremployees because they allow for
that.
So that you're not, I can't sayto prevent burnout completely,
because I, it doesn't No.
But to make it less likely tohappen.

(01:05:37):
I think it's also like whatyou're talking about too, is I
think a lot of companies put allof the responsibility to manage
your health and your wellnessand not burn out on the
individual.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Without really checking in withand it should all be on the
leadership team.
What do you mean?
But Elyssa, they have a crisisnumber you can call when you're

(01:05:59):
feeling like you're going tokill yourself.
What do you mean?
They, you get a freesubscription to Headspace.
Isn't that enough?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Ugh.
Yeah.
And I, they give you a stipendto go to a gym.
yes.
Or, and there's been times wherethe actual problem was our
workload is too high.
And I feel like what I was toldwas, maybe you just need to take
care of yourself better so youcan keep up.

(01:06:20):
And I'm like, I don't think so.
I think this is unreasonable.
And I think that's really hardis like having good enough
boundaries and a clear enough ohno, I see what's happening.
And not accepting that.
And I think that's something Ithink you build over time as an
employee, but I didn't know howto do that in my early twenties.
I love Summer Fridays that areoffered, but they tell you that
you need to work even harderduring the week to make sure you

(01:06:41):
do all your week your work.
I hate that.
It's like taking vacation totake a vacation.
You have to do so much work.
Yeah.
I'm like, just give me sevenextra days a year then just
don't, let's not pretend I don'twanna work myself harder just to
take up four hours.
Just give me seven extra daysand let's call it.

(01:07:02):
Or I'll just work a normal dayon Friday and just be relieved
that no one's chatting me afterlunch.
Great.
you were talking about earliertoo, just just sparked a memory
that I completely forgot, but Ihad a manager once.
my allergies can get pretty badand they're like under control
now, but like they weren't atone point.
So I would get really badallergies that would turn into

(01:07:22):
migraines and I wouldn't callout, not go into work.
I would just be like, I need towork from home because like I'm
a mess.
And after doing that, I thinkjust twice, two times, and this
was like two times in the spanof two months or something like
that.
my manager was like, I think youneed to buy more expensive

(01:07:43):
allergy medicine.
I would highly suggest that,like if you care about your job.
And I was like, okay.
I if you care about your job,right?
I, and like how inappropriate tobe giving you personal medical
advice that is so inappropriate.
Oh, this so unprofessional.
This child was awful.
I hate that.

(01:08:03):
Yeah, she was terrible.
Ugh.
also very toxic.
Ash says, we're all on the edgeof burnout or past it, and these
companies take zeroresponsibility for it.
Doctors moonlight as editorspledge.
They gave you medical advice.
Yeah.
It was like, yeah.
I think it was too, this is whatI take and it helps.

(01:08:24):
And I am here at work, and I'mclearly she was a bitch.
Anyway, moving on.
What works for me?
What works a bitch though witheverybody?
'cause I am the prototype ofhumans.
Mm-hmm.
Crazy.
You are.
It's true.
You are.
It's true.
Yeah.
Everyone just do what I do andif it doesn't work, it's because
you're wrong.
Okay.
Why are we ever worried about,about people catching clips of

(01:08:47):
our podcast and takingeverything so out of context?
yeah.
And also like your being like, Idon't wanna, I don't wanna
develop a superiority complex.
I already have one.
Maybe show everybody your shirt.
Oh yeah, my shirt.
Mine says defund the media.
By the way, if you look likethis, DM me.
If you look like this, DM me.
Love it.
If you wanna buy me books Yeah.

(01:09:08):
A Comfortable World.
Again, we'll put Elyssa's,Amazon book wishlist in the,
show notes.
Like I said, it's not asuperiority complex, if you're
right.
and I think that Yes.
Okay.
I think that, yes, yes.
I don't think, I think that weare so taught to be like, I'm
worthless.
I'm nothing about, you know,like.
I think that's part of decent oflearning to center yourself is

(01:09:30):
learning to value yourself andlearning and to hate when people
compliment you.
Yeah.
To be like, oh no, I like, whichis actually a dick thing to do.
Hey, here's something nice.
No.
yeah.
How dare you.
You take that compliment.
It's stupid.
Exactly.
Rebecca's like, I'm gonna cutthat out.
No comment.
Are you good at takingcompliments, Rebecca?

(01:09:50):
No.
Okay.
that's okay.
Who is, I feel like I'm prettygood at it.
I'm gonna be honest.
I just did it myself right now.
Stupid bitch.
I don't know.
I feel like you're so cute.
I feel again, but I guess Ihave, I like all classically had
that view of like, if someone'sbeing nice to me, I'm, that's a

(01:10:10):
nice gesture and it's rude tolike, reject it.
I take'em right up the butt.
Marina takes her complimentsright up there, right.
The butt.
I can't confirm I've givenRebecca, I've given Marina
several compliments.
Yeah.
Right.
In the keer.
But learning to value yourselfis that having that again,
having that experience of I havea front row seat to what I've

(01:10:33):
been doing the whole time.
Mm-hmm.
And how hard I was trying, andI'm not going to lie to myself
or dis like I'm not going togaslight myself that I wasn't
trying hard when I know I wasthat my, that I hadn't.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, negative intent when I knowmy heart was in the right space.
Mm-hmm.
And I can, I'm willing to lookat where that wa fell short or

(01:10:53):
wasn't, didn't fit the situationor how I could do better next
time.
But none of that discounts that.
I was trying really hard andgiving yourself appropriate
credit, I think is part ofcentering yourself and valuing
yourself and setting boundaries,which I know we've said a lot so
far.
It's Rebecca's favorite, but,and setting boundaries.

(01:11:13):
I think that's prioritizingyourself.
Like I was talking about how,sometimes I just have to not
respond to texts right away, notcall people back right away.
And it can be for many reasons,but sometimes, that's better for
me, that's better for my mentalhealth, that's better for my
life.
And it's okay to do that.
And it's okay to say no, I don'twanna go out to dinner with you

(01:11:37):
tonight.
I'm actually really, I'veactually been really depressed
this week.
no, you can't come over, youknow, boundaries and saying No,
I, yeah.
What I'm about to say, I givethe caveat with I am going to
sound like a giant asshole.
Okay.

(01:11:57):
Thinking about this as we talkabout this, one of the things I
realized I've been doing, fuckyou, Jamie, is I've stopped
pretending I'm stupid.
Well, not pretending, but justnot being as smart as I know I
am out loud, because it's not myproblem.
If I make you feel bad thatyou're stupid, I'm smarter.
I'm not responsible for yourresponse to me being smart.

(01:12:18):
And I've just kind of stoppedand I'm, I say what I think out
loud if I think I have an ideaor if I know that you're wrong.
And I'm like, we did decide thisinstead of like, no, it's just
you're an asshole and I loveyou.
Yeah.
And it kind of like, it's justbeen freeing.

(01:12:39):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
and it's been freeing I'm, andbeing more direct and not
needing to like, babysiteveryone's feelings, being
blunt.
You can just say how it is, butI don't know.
And again, like I, I feel likeI'm doing a bad job of
explaining this, but at work,like when you ask about
compliments, like I have badself-esteem about other stuff,

(01:13:00):
but I've never had badself-esteem about how smart I
am.
But I at work, it was like, Ialways knew, like, I was like I
was smart and on it, but like Iwould make people feel bad about
me doing my job, but that neverchanged.
But I just kind of always, Ifeel like tap danced around it
or went outta my way to just.
Not make people feel dumb, butone of the things I think we

(01:13:23):
worked on in therapy is like,not being, not feeling
responsible for other people'sreactions to you.
Which Yeah.
A whole other thing.
Yes.
And that's kind of given mepermission to just be like, oh,
here's everything.
And if you can either feel badabout it or just be like, let's
work with her.
'cause she's smart.
I don't know it.
And again, I realize that makesme sound like an asshole.

(01:13:44):
I'm gonna be totally honest.
I'm half a gummy inn, so I don'tcare.
that's just what I think.
Beautiful.
Take that other half, girl.
You got it.
Yeah.
Like speaking up and bringingthe good idea out.
Even if it mm-hmm.
Even if it will leave someonefeeling like, did I look stupid?
'cause I didn't think of that.

(01:14:06):
I don't say it like, oh, right,I know you don't actually
dumbass.
that's what I'm saying is that'stheir own insecurity, but she
wants to popping out if I wantto.
Mm-hmm.
And I do after I hang up.
Too many people are ignorant andexpect to be tiptoed around.
Yeah.
That's it.
I'm sick of tiptoeing aroundpeople.
Mm-hmm.

(01:14:26):
Listen, don't do it.
Hulk smash.
I think it's okay to just knowwhat you, so I, okay.
Yeah.
I think it's okay to know whatyou know a lot about and what
you're an expert on.
And then to also,'cause I alsoknow that you two have also have
the trait where I've seen you dothis when you don't know, you'll
just be like, yeah, I'm notreally sure.

(01:14:47):
Or Yeah, I'm not an expert onthat.
And you own that.
And like that.
That goes a like, but Rebecca'slike, but I do know everything,
you know, a lot.
No, I literally Google it as I'mtalking, like, I don't know, but
let's fucking find out now.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I think that there'ssomething really healthy about
just knowing, no, I do know whatI'm talking about.

(01:15:08):
And having that confidence to,to just hold that space without
letting, and if people challengeit or push back mm-hmm.
You're like, okay, I'm notmoving.
Right.
I think Yes.
Yeah.
Yep.
And again, I think it's just,it's getting to be like about to
hit 40 and just realizing allthe time you've spent bending to

(01:15:29):
the world make Yeah.
Making yourself smaller all thetime.
You've spent I don't, not doingthat anymore.
Yeah.
I just, fuck it.
I don't, I don't need morefriends.
I don't care if you like me.
I make money with my job.
I go home, I have a garden.
I like debate.
Don't do this.
But like, I don't have a jobright now, Rebecca.

(01:15:49):
That was very insensible.
I don't just so I just, I don'tI don't need anyone else.
I'm just gonna validate myfucking self mm-hmm.
And go do the things I like andI just, I genuinely don't give a
shit anymore.
Yeah.
Which is really nice.
It is really nice.
Yeah.
Talking about working hard, Ifeel like we can work hard, but

(01:16:10):
there will always be someonewho's always trying to shoot you
down, but they, they're mostlyjealous of your self con
confidence, but something theydon't realize is that you
finally boosted up yourself-confidence and they're just
wearing you down, so you have tobuild yourself up again.
And sometimes we give up andwe're just like super depressed
all the time.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think that is what happenswhen, like something that you

(01:16:33):
just said is you're like, Idon't care about having a lot of
friends.
And That's true.
I think that you realized thatwho you have in your life
mm-hmm.
Is as important as who you don'tget Yes.
Your access to you and not beingcorrect.
I'm not closed off to like newfriends or other friends.
Right.
But it's the same with likerelationships and like dating.
It's I know we talked about thisin the friendship episode.

(01:16:54):
I think like I've learned all ofthese years, 40 years, I'm about
to turn 40.
what doesn't work, what I don'tlike, what makes me feel like
shit, what lifts me up?
Mm-hmm.
What makes me feel supported.
Yeah.
And so I'm very careful aboutcurating my friends.
Yeah.

(01:17:16):
My partners, my lovers.
Yeah.
Pat says, I feel that, but I'malso over being bitter about how
shit and unfair everything isanymore.
I don't know.
So jaded.
I'm still bitter about it.
I think.
Yes.
there's two parts.
This is just like stuff solelylike in the meat.
This isn't me all the time.
This is just, I think we'retalking about recentering that
small, those small bits of timethat we get only for ourselves.

(01:17:38):
Yeah.
And then, and it's like the truepure form of that.
And then, and we spend timebeing angry and furious about
everything.
But I think this is like thesanity scraps that we hold onto.
Yeah.
I think because this isn't anall the time thing.
Oh, sorry.
I was gonna say this isn't anall the time thing.
you don't go on trips to seeJamie all the time.

(01:17:58):
Like we don't take centeringshit all the time.
This is just but we should themoments that you have.
But I'm just saying I don'twanna be like, I do this and
this now these are just likesmall blips and time or small
pieces in our world ofeverything else that like keep
us moving forward with all theother bullshit.
I love that you said taking timeto be angry or bitter the rest

(01:18:19):
of the time.
'cause I actually think that isa form of being center of
centering yourself too.
'cause again, what's thealternative?
Sitting here and performing,convincing ourselves.
We're not angry about what wejust perpetuate something we
have every right to be angryabout.
I think giving ourselves time tobe mad is actually like really
healthy and an appropriate,healthy response to the world,

(01:18:43):
the fucked up world we're livingin right now.
And so I think it's like findingthis space where you can give
space for that when it's presentwithout getting lost in it.
I don't know how to do thatsometimes.
Yeah.
I'm still finding that balanceand the world's only getting
more fucked up, so it's I don'tknow, I'm having to re-find it
all the time because Thingschange around you too.

(01:19:06):
But I think also having kidsaround, Jamie, you have your
niece and nephew say you haveyour kids, like having kids
around.
I think you also startprioritizing things because you
see all this beautiful stuff inyour kid and you want that
preserved as much as possible.
So if you're not being anexample of how to live that life
and like how to, how to holdonto that, then they're not

(01:19:29):
gonna see that and they're gonnalose those beautiful little
parts of them.
Yeah.
so I feel like we're almost,it's even more important because
we know who's watching us and weWe want that for them.
We want better for them.
Yeah.
We wanna be like good rolemodels and we Exactly.
It's important.
even for yep.

(01:19:49):
M and for JJ and Ruthie, I wantto be like, Or even for my
friends.
I feel like you guysconsistently show up and model
like friendship prior, selfcare.
Like really we're trying to showyou how to do the friendship
thing.
Elyssa Healthy.
I know, I'm, and I'm, I've grownso much.
I know you're doing great underyour tutelage, under your
mentorship, tutelage.

(01:20:11):
But I love what you said,Rebecca, too, because like it
not only benefits our kids, italso benefits like the other
people in our lives.
I think, yeah.
I'm having this experience whereI'm realizing I can't really
look to my parents' generationor the boomer's generation
because in a lot of, no.
Do you remember when you sawyour mom do doing any of this?
Do you see, do you remember anyof your mom, being, taking time

(01:20:33):
herself?
Because I couldn't remember any.
She's still not doing it.
She's still not doing it.
Yeah.
And I hope she figures it out.
I would love that for her.
but yeah, I think that I spent,I did spend some time being
angry and bitter.
'cause I'm like, no one taughtme this.
I'm having to put this togetherfrom scraps in my mid thirties
and I should have seen, I shouldhave had examples.
But I do have examples like I,and this is again, I think where

(01:20:54):
it goes to like creating asupport system, removing people
who are like shitty and you'relike, I don't wanna reinforce
this way of being and.
So maybe you need to be a littlefurther out of my circle, but
then pulling in the people inour circle, thinking about who
makes me feel good about myself?
Who is like an example who islike modeling self love and self

(01:21:16):
care.
or whatever you wanna work on.
Maybe it's like being good atroutines or schedule or being
consistent.
Especially like I, if I have ad, adhd, I do have a h, adhd,
probably not diagnosed, but it'sI've really loved seeing the
ways that you have been reallyconsistent with the podcast.
And seeing that example of youcan be consistent with a DHD,

(01:21:36):
it's just gonna look different.
You're gonna, maybe you stay uptill four in the morning once in
a while working on something.
Maybe you go on what I said.
Go on.
Oh, okay.
Or maybe you, focus on thingsthat are interesting and you're,
they're, you're consistent aboutit because you're choosing to
invest in things that younaturally would wanna do and are
fun.

(01:21:57):
But anyway, I just wanted tohype you up and be like, thank
you for being, thank you for allthe modeling that you do for me.
I feel thank you for beingafraid.
I know how to be human fromwatching you guys.
I'm always benefiting from that.
Yeah.
We're your elders.
So Yes.
You are the people I look up to.
It has been interesting, likewith my grandpa dying, my mom

(01:22:19):
has taken on more of a caregiverrole to my grandmother.
And it's watching, it's watchingher start to make time for
herself and do things forherself.
And it's really good to see.
It's so it's not, it's not toolate.
And so I know we're being rolemodels for each other, but I
also think we may be being rolemodels for the, like our
parents.

(01:22:39):
we can only hope.
Yeah, I hope so.
But I don't mean that in a conticonceited way.
I just mean I don't think theirparents told them to prioritize
themselves or anything aboutthem.
So like I'm saying that with,Yeah.
I don't think it's anything theyjust knew how to do.
And somebody's showing them howto do that, and I think they're
doing that.
I know my dad plays in anorchestra.
My mom has her friends that shegoes out to lunch with.
And so it's it's nice to see,because I remember when I was

(01:23:02):
younger, I'd be like, mom, doyou have any friends?
She's I don't need friends.
I have your father.
And I was like, Ugh, that's justone person.
Ugh, it's not a support system.
Also.
Have you seen that?
And I was like, also, it's aboy.
but like now it's just, it'snice to see them take care of
themselves.
'cause I think also have,watching their parents die,
they've realized that you'regonna die anyway, I think even

(01:23:23):
more closely and intimately thanwe have.
And I don't know.
Yeah.
Again, all that just soundedsuper superior.
And I didn't mean it to, I justno, it didn't.
No, I'm glad our parents aredoing that.
I'm glad they're Yeah, becausethey de they deserve to be happy
too.
Yeah.
Marina's mom finally divorcedher shitty husband with a year

(01:23:45):
of marina moving closer to her.
Holy shit.
With a year.
Marina's like taking credit.
She's I love that for, I lovethat for both of you.
No, I love that for your mom somuch.
I love that for both of you.
Good for her.
For Marina's mom.
Yes.
Yeah.
I had a thought and it was, oh,okay.
We've talked about when peoplehave judgements and they kind of
project onto you.
And something I've been thinkingabout is that sometimes, so a

(01:24:12):
little thought exercise I'vebeen doing is if I'm being true
to my values, like for example,like something that I really, I
have actively worked on, andagain, this has been a process
when I'm like, it's great toprioritize watercolor.
It's because I sat there fuckingcoaching myself through, can I
do this?
Is this worth my time?
Is it, it's because I sat thereand said, yeah, why wouldn't it
be?
And I sat with thecontradictions and the thoughts

(01:24:34):
and I got somewhere and I got towhat was really important to me.
But it's been interesting tonotice a lot of people will
share things about theirrelationship to art with you, or
if you're doing something, maybelike with the podcast, people
say things to you like, oh, Ialways thought about starting a
podcast.
And they share these things withyou.
And I think there's somethingreally beautiful that happens
when you start putting yourselfout there and being more

(01:24:55):
authentic is, some people don'tlike it, but even in the people
who I'm like, maybe this isconfronting to see me make time
for art in my life, and maybethat's good for you.
Maybe it's good for you to beconfronted by the fact that
people can prioritize thingsthat you think are stupid.
Because what is that about foryou?
I don't know.
Are, is it that you'rejudgmental?

(01:25:16):
Is it that you wish you wouldgive yourself permission to do
things you enjoy and you don't?
And so you feel like no one elseshould either?
again, people are justprojecting and that's what, like
realizing that, again, havingthat boundary to hand them back
their shit, but also recognizingI'm hand, I'm just reflecting
back to you something that's inyou, and I don't know what it

(01:25:38):
is, but that's good.
Like it's good for me to bemodeling this way of being in
the world because I feel likeit's very, it's healthier.
It's helping me, like I feelgood and I would love to have
more models of people feelinggood in their lives and creating
a life that's worth living forthem.
Yeah.
I would love to see all thedifferent ways that looks,

(01:26:00):
again, what you just said.
For me it's the completeopposite.
It's like when people doproject.
Because I already don't know howto people or I don't know the
rules of people, then I assumethen they must be right.
And I think that's where a lotof the self-esteem issues come
in.
I can't give'em back.
'cause I was like, clear.
clearly the real people aretelling me that this is how we
people.
And so Okay.
it's on me.

(01:26:20):
And so that's something I thinkjust ask me.
I still really struggle with.
Yeah.
I'll tell you.
and I think that's where it'shelpful to note,'cause even how
you're talking about it, I seeyou having self-awareness.
Recognizing something you're notgreat at.
And then maybe, like Jamie said,just ask me, you have a skill or
like something to fill in withthat where if you don't feel

(01:26:40):
like you can trust yourjudgment, you can go to Jamie
and say, is this a valid pieceof feedback?
Is this accurate?
Or is this person being anasshole?
I say, fuck no, fuck them.
I go to check GBT and GTP as inmore honest and therapeutic.
I thought she was gonna say thanJamie.
Yes.
it is because you're my bestfriend.
And so there's still somethingthere that like, you don't wanna

(01:27:03):
hurt me all the way.
So chat GPT isn't gonna hold thefuck out.
I'm pretty fucking honest withyou all the time.
here's what it is.
I can just, I, you know what Imean though?
Like, I can, I can order chatGPT to be honest and I'm biased
and it will be, and I just knowit will be.
Yeah.
It's objective.
I don't take orders that at theend of the day.
Yeah.
At the end of the day, we can'tbe objective.
Really and truly a hundredpercent chat GBT is.

(01:27:23):
And so that ironically is whereI have turned to.
Did I people Right.
How do I, people better?
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
And I, and I think it's likewhat you said is I believe you,
that you're honest, right?
And I think there's also thatquestion of like, is this person
telling me the truth?
would they protect my feelings?
And I think those are all fairand but you also don't have that

(01:27:47):
with a lot of people usually.
Yeah, that's true.
Meaning people that will behonest with yous.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And be like, yeah, I think youwent, I think you were in the
wrong here.
Yeah.
I was telling you this earlier,I have loved that in my life and
valued it.
And there's been times when youcalled me out, like as a joke,
you were like, oh, Elyssa, thatwas a lot.
That was a half joke.

(01:28:07):
That was a lot, right?
And, but it got me to reflect onit and be like, oh,'cause I
think there was one, one timewhere you were with me and
someone else, and I spoke tothem in a way where you were
like, that was a bit much.
That was like, whoa, Elyssa,that was a little rude.
ha.
And we laughed and I neverthought about it again.
Yeah.
I don't remember it later, Andlater on I checked in with that
person and I was like, Hey,Jamie.

(01:28:28):
I like Jamie pointed out in themoment, that was a little harsh.
Did that come off that way?
And they were like, yeah,actually.
And we had a conversation.
And that I really love and valuethat, like having people who I
trust to tell me the truth.
Yeah.
Especially because we can'talways trust ourselves and we're
still learning to do that.
And.
it is hard to do.
Yeah.
Like sometimes it's the hardest,I think, to hear the truth.

(01:28:52):
but it's also hard to tellpeople the truth sometimes,
especially when it's somebodyyou care so much about.
which is crazy'cause it's likeyou care so much about them.
So yeah.
Just be honest.
But it's also but I don't wannahurt them, Yeah.
or sometimes if I'm asking forthe truth, am I really prepared
to hear it and manage myreaction to it?
Instead of making them, likeshooting the messenger or like
asking for advice, asking afriend for advice and like And

(01:29:14):
then being mad, not true.
Not truly being like open to it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I want you to agree with mesecretly, I don't really want
you to agree with me that I'mdoing it.
Okay.
Yeah.
No, I get it.
Sometimes I feel like if I amgonna ask for honesty, I'll
leave space to be like, I wantyour honest answer, but then I
need to go think about it beforeI'm ready to talk about it,

(01:29:35):
because it might hurt myfeelings at first, but that's
okay.
So you need to take it and sitwith it for a little bit.
Yes.
And then, yeah, like I might notready.
I think that's, I might not beready to, that's a boundary.
That's a boundary.
That's a great boundary.
Yeah.
And I think that is part ofcentering yourself healthy too,
is recognizing your own needsand owning them and being in
charge of them, and then handingother people's needs back to

(01:29:58):
them.
Of, if you need me to.
Like being honest.
I don't know that I can give youlike a reaction that makes you
feel comfortable about tellingme the truth.
So I'm gonna be honest aboutthat up front and let you know I
might look upset and that'sokay.
Like I, it's still like themedicine that you'll give me by
being honest is still, I stillwanna take it even if I got
stink face while I'm doing it,which is what happens.

(01:30:20):
Show us your best stink face.
That was many stink face eye.
There's there's so many negativetraits to react.
I have to have a range, right?
Oh, you're pointing out, myinsecurity.
oh.
You're pointing out myforgetfulness and the ways I can
be inconsiderate.
Ah, like you just, you need it,you need the range.

(01:30:43):
And I'm gonna meet you with,again the opposite.
I have begged people to tell methe truth because I don't know
until you tell me.
And then when they tap dancearound it and I think, oh, it's
the truth.
Yeah.
But I have missed all of thelike subtleties.
And also you told me this wasthe truth.
Yep.
So and some people will justlie.
I need it.
Some people aren't comfortabletelling the truth.

(01:31:03):
Yeah.
So I think that's where it'sgood to know your people.
I need it.
Yeah.
who?
And you messaged me one timeabout, it was like you were
trying something on and youwanted to know if you, it would
look good and you said, I'masking you'cause I know you'll
be honest.
And I think you also trusted meto be kind If it wa if it didn't
look good.
And I would have, and I also waslike, because you're asking for
honesty, I will be honest.

(01:31:24):
And I was like, it looks great.
Yeah.
And it did, but if it didn't, Iwould've been like, I don't know
if that would be my pitch.
do you feel like you guys havedone a lot of work understanding
like your values and how to andwhat's important to you?
Yeah.
Don't be a fucking asshole.
Yeah.
I like that.
That's a good place to, again,it's, yeah.
It's good to leave it sealed.

(01:31:45):
Here's the, here's the corevalue of this podcast.
Don't be an asshole., I mean,when I say don't be an asshole,
some of that is very specificthings like, to me that I think
if you're walking towardssomeone on the sidewalk, two
people toward two people, yeah.
And one couple SCOs over to theright a little bit and the other
couple Is oh, they scooted overto the right so we're just gonna

(01:32:07):
keep on plowing through the samestraight path and they don't
also get over.
Those people are assholes.
So it sounds like for you, beingaware of others and being
considerate Yeah.
considering them is a value foryou.
When I open the door for you andyou walk through not saying
Thank you, rude first, we'llelicit a you're welcome from me

(01:32:28):
and second is very fucking rude.
It's intention is always myfocus's a good value.
Like living your life onpurpose.
That is good.
I think that's a lot of whatwe're talking about.
Yeah.
He does that.
He's great.
I love that.
Do it girl.
I actually did have, I've done avalues exercise and I think this
is a really good way to startthinking about how to recenter
yourself is actually sittingdown and like defining your

(01:32:51):
values.
And if you have a therapist,this is something you can do
with a therapist too.
This is something I did with mytherapist, I think actually, is
like actually defining what isimportant to me.
And I think it ended up beinglike purpose, creativity, and
something else that I don'tremember, which is funny because
family top three value, can'tremember it.

(01:33:13):
Candy, family, family, family.
I heard candy, but also candy.
Candy.
By the way, I've complimented onyour, you on your candy.
Tastes like no less than fourtimes.
Because I'm just like, I onlyremember the once that's, I,
maybe I've just been thinking itevery time.
I'm like, Ooh, sad.
She's like taking my candy.
And she's candy.
I feel like I keep candy.
I keep first it was the highchoose, but I don't know.

(01:33:37):
Ooh.
I love it.
I, candy is my number one value.
I love candy.
I love candy too.
It's so good to end on the valueof don't be an asshole core
value of this podcast, but alsotake care of yourself.
Oh, that's what I was gonna say.
Yeah.
You were talking about like yourvalue, like individual.
And I was thinking like, that'swhat I've talked to my father
about this a lot.
That's what I think about, withlike companies, right?

(01:34:00):
Yes.
You wanna see that.
Like their values, a lot of whattheir values are.
I guess with companies it's hardbecause they can have certain
values on paper and not reallylive up to them.
But that's one thing.
And I, that's, that was, I thinkone of the things that took us
so long to start the podcast iswe really wanted to get down
like the language on our siteand like in any messaging, to

(01:34:21):
really reflect that.
to really, and that's actuallywhat us doing.
That was what triggered I thinkme deciding to update my stuff,
like my personal site.
but we spent a lot of time justwriting like a couple
paragraphs, because we justwanted to Yeah.
Make sure that like our valueswere there and Yeah.
And that you understood, but behonest and make sure the mission

(01:34:45):
Yeah.
And that you were lying statewhat you wanted this to do in
the world.
Ugh.
That's beautiful.
And I think it speaks to alsolike when you're looking for a
job or when you're with anemployer The importance of
finding something that's a goodenough fit for your values,
because it can, yeah.
Part of burnout can be thattension between misalignment,

(01:35:05):
your personal values, and theplace that you work.
Sometimes that's being asked todisregard yourself, but
sometimes it's doing work thatyou know, is not making the
world better or is having verylittle impact, or just the moral
injury.
Yeah.
And that just sucks.
That just sucks.
Ah, and it's hard, I don't know,to balance like, how evil is

(01:35:31):
this company I'm working for?
I feel like if you're askingyourself that, maybe.
But to be clear, maybe that'syour sign as someone who little
too long sometimes you, you alsojust need a job.
Sometimes that's, and there'snothing wrong with that.
I was gonna say, sometimes evilpays the paycheck.
Yeah.
And then you have to be like,what level of evil is

(01:35:52):
acceptable?
And then now you havecompromised your own morality.
If any evil companies are hiringright now, I'm available.
I'm available.
Yeah.
The whoop says that balance ofcompany and personal values is
the exact reason I moved halfwayacross the country a few years
ago.
Wow.
I hope you moved to F becauseyou found a company that matched
your personal values.

(01:36:12):
Yeah.
Congrats.
That's great.
Dismantle the evil from Yeah.
Also, what company is from theinside.
Marina says, yes.
Drop that company name in thecomics.
Yeah.
It's a good company.
Are they hiring inside?
I love that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's great.
I, yeah, I ha I would say mycurrent company is actually a

(01:36:33):
really good values fit for me.
They really care about DEI.
They really care aboutprioritizing the customer and
keeping costs low for thecustomer.
Part of that, that is, that,that is actually their
competitive edge, right?
But I knew that going in.
Yeah.
And I really appreciated that.
Yeah.
And so I do think it's possible.
It can take time, it can takeeffort, and obviously it wasn't

(01:36:54):
totally up to me whether I gotthat job, but it sounds like
whoop just moved the Midwest tothe west coast.
That's what I'm hearing.
Okay.
So you moved to Oregon,Washington coast to West coast.
I'm going with Washington.
I'm gonna go with ca.
Did I read that right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Nice.
Yeah.
Washington.
I'm a transplant too.
I'm from the Midwest.

(01:37:16):
Oh.
Or oh, Oregon.
Nice.
Yeah.
You're all like, yeah, I'm fromMichigan and I live in
California now.
Yeah.
For a decade.
I think that's a good point too.
some places do have really weirdwork culture.
Like I lived in North Carolinafor a year and I remember
feeling like you guys take thisa little too serious.
I.
Oh, like this is a little, theysay east Coast is, it's just so

(01:37:38):
hustle culture, right?
So it's just, yeah.
That was the job where I toldyou like, I got really bad
heartburn one day and I left, itwasn't super early.
It was like two hours early.
Yeah.
I didn't have Toms, thereweren't any in the office, and I
was like, listen, I cannotconcentrate.
I gotta go.
I got heartburn.
And my manager was like, reallyheartburn.

(01:37:58):
Okay.
and again, back to the it's haveyou never had bad heart
heartburn?
Bitch, come on.
Apparently she hadn't.
You're not gonna You're notgonna sit and suffer at your
desk for another four hours.
And are you, is it really yourplace professionally to tell me
how to manage my health rightnow?
No.
but yeah, so I think thatfinding places that match your
values is helpful.
Yeah.
Or if you're somewhere thatdoesn't match your values,

(01:38:19):
whether that's a company or likea location, a state, a city,
prioritizing, findinglike-minded people within that
place can be good.
Like we, we worked at semi toxicto toxic workplaces when we met
and we found each other becausewe were like, oh, you're like
me.
You're sick of this bullshit.
Yeah.
Also, yeah.

(01:38:41):
We're like, okay.
Undercover.
Yeah.
So don't be an asshole and findother people who are not
assholes.
Find other people that you canjust be silly assholes too.
Yes.
That's what I do.
Or be the silly.
Or be the asshole you want tosee in this world.
Yes.

(01:39:02):
Yes.
That's the title of the podcast.
Be the Asshole you wanna see inthis world.
Prioritize yourself Outta Spite.
be an Asshole for Good andJustice.
I love this.
I love this.
Oh girl.
After my own heart.
You stop being obsessed withRebecca.
No.
Going.
You're supposed to be obsessedwith me.
Oh no.
I love it.
And knowing you're smarter thaneveryone.
How dare you.
Yes.
I love this.

(01:39:22):
Those are the nurturing,nurturing this world.
Yes.
Nurturing is superioritycomplex.
Actually, maybe I won't maketime to see you when I'm in
Portland Secret.
It's fine, Jamie.
It's okay.
You can be smart with me.
I was talking to Q Oh yeah.
Portland.
Why do you guys get together?
You guys should get together.
Yeah.
What the fuck?
I'm in Vancouver, Washington.

(01:39:44):
Interesting.
Yeah.
Get together.
We, you love her so much.
You'll chat.
We'll chat later.
Maybe I could have a real lifefriend and I'll have be friends.
Vancouver.
Yay.
I thought Jamie, I'm not tellingeveryone the exact city where I
live, so I'm saying Vancouver,no, I was actually asking, just
not you.
Oh, nevermind.
It's all about you, Rebecca.
Sorry.
She's fucking gross.

(01:40:05):
actually I'm centering myselfand something are about me.
we so things.
we reached the end of thepodcast.
Yes.
Go away.
Everybody did a good job.
Go away.
Apparently I said that at theend of one of our shows and
Rebecca can't get over it.
I was like, that's the end.
Go away.
Go away.
Quit perceiving My favorite.
part of the slumber party isthat you eventually are supposed

(01:40:26):
to slumber and also, that's whywe gotta go take an m.
Yeah.
It keeps you angry for the othershit.
Like just Yeah.
Be the asshole.
Stay angry.
There's a lot of destructiveenergy and rage.
Take herself out for manicuresonce in a while.
Yes.
Just girly things.
Also, I tried to see if shewanted to do that while she was

(01:40:47):
here, but redirect your rage.
embrace it and then get amanicure.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Just girly things or buy a raggun, you know?
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
All right.
I don't know what we thought.
Rebecca's dammit.
Okay.
Yes.
I think this is part of the,living a life, like creating

(01:41:10):
life is worth living.
You get to a point where you'relike, why the fuck not?
I literally feel like, not to bedramatic, I wanna die.
Right.
I, I'm losing the will to liveat some point.
Doing the scary thing is so muchless scary than living.
Such a miserable life.

(01:41:31):
You'll get fired or laid offany, no matter if you're a good
worker or a bad worker.
we have learned this by now, soit's like, well fuck it.
Like nothing we do is going tochange any of this.
Yeah.
So like, we might as well justdo what you want.
I feel like that's genuinely athing of like, well, I'm gonna
give life one last chance, butI'm gonna fully do it my way.
I'm gonna finally do it the wayI've always wanted to.

(01:41:52):
And did it give myselfpermission to listen?
Would you say what?
Dancing?
no one's watching and live LaughLoving.
Is that, so I'm actually talkingabout.
When you get so depressed thatyou don't, that you wanna go to
sleep forever.
Uh mm-hmm.
Things just start lookingdifferent.
So I don't know if I'm dancingand live life loving or just
saying maybe there's betteralternatives than just going

(01:42:14):
forever podcast since 2024,ladies in general.
But that's what burnout feelslike.
Oh yeah.
I know.
Yeah.
You just get so Elyssa, I'mmessing with you.
Oh, okay.
I love her.
That was when I actually neededit.
I love her.
She's so easy.
I was like, I'm gonna actuallyargue with you about this.
And you're like, I am joking.
Please don't.
Actually, I think last nightwhen we were all talking, I was

(01:42:36):
just like, everything I say is ajoke.
I was like, never take me.
Just look at her serious.
Yeah.
You just look at her and thenkeep talking.
And then that's my favoritebecause I know that's like,
that's Rebecca.
Just, I don't know.
I the knowing that you're likejudging me and you're just like,

(01:42:57):
it feels good.
It feels good.
Oh my God.
Why is this getting sodepressing?
I feel like we should have ended15 minutes ago when it was like,
we long goodbye.
This is what happens when youlong goodbye.
This, this wasn't a longgoodbye.
We didn't even decide togoodbye.
We did this, then we did this.
This was the beginning ofgoodbye.
No, I just, and we kept fuckingtalking.
And we talked about havingfeelings and then we just kept
going, okay, there's no wrong.

(01:43:17):
So I was getting ready forgoodbye.
There's no feelings here.
Ladies and gentlemen.
You know what?
There's no wrong way to goodbye.
And also maybe the goodbye wastoo long.
All right.
So both of those things can betrue.
Thank you guys.
thank you Elyssa.
Yeah.
Thank you for having, for beingin my apartment.
Yes.
Thank you.

(01:43:38):
Thank you for having me.
This was fun.
I feel like I was in slumberparty.
Shut it down.
Yeah, this was great.
Can we go paint our nails now?
Face mask maybe?
Yeah.
Yeah.
if that's what you want,whatever you want.
Love you.
Okay.
Love everyone.
All right.
Bye guys.
Thank you.
See you next week.
Thank you too much guys.

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