Stop shoulding all over yourself

We kick off Episode 30 with the winners of our giveaway announced! (Unfortunately, the first two winners didn't respond, so we picked two new winners.) Congrats to @z_mertz and @liz_aday for winning some Burnout Merch! 

This week has been A WEEK. We wanted to talk about those times when you can't even. When you  can't even muster the energy to do basic things—brushing teeth, taking out trash, feeding your children (jk). You know: How to self-care when you just self-can't. 

We chat about the unfair expectations at work to keep up appearances and the pressure of functioning normally despite the state of the world. Jamie opens up about her own battles with mental health and being in the depression hole, including neglected her 50+ plant collection until they all died and cleaning her depression apartment. Rebecca talks about the extra layer of guilt you have when it's not just you—your family depends on you, too. 

No one has it all together. Even though we all try to act like we do.

...and we're still waiting for That One Notebook(tm) that will fix our lives.

Have a suggestion for our next episode? A burnout story to share? Send us a text!

Support the show

The Burnout Collective Podcast is hosted by Jamie Young and Rebecca McCracken. We’ve had every ounce of inspiration sucked out by years of startups and hustle culture, and we’re trying to reclaim our creativity. Join us and our guests as we explore how to restart and reenergize our brains. Every Thursday at 5pm PT, we stream live on twitch.tv/TheBurnoutCollective.

Join our Discord community: discord.gg/ZwBjbmVfAF
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Music track: Snap Your Fingers by Aylex
Source: https://freetouse.com/music

Episode Transcript

Jamie (00:00):
first of all, I grabbed this because, whatever, this is

(00:03):
kind of dorky, but, um, I got anew notebook to fix my life,
Rebecca.
I am Jamie.
And I'm Rebecca.
Welcome to the BurnoutCollective.
Hello.

Rebecca (00:20):
Hello, happy Thursday.

Jamie (00:22):
Welcome back.
happy Thursday.
Happy Podcast Day.
Thank you for being here.
It's been a week, which is myfavorite way to start our
podcast, Rebecca.

Rebecca (00:34):
especially has been a

Jamie (00:35):
been a week, today has been its own week.
I wasn't sure what we were gonnatalk about, and then we just
kind of thought maybe we shouldtalk about like, when you can't
even, like, when you can't even,you know what I mean?
You're so depressed, stressed,sick.
Maybe you're, you've been sickfor a long time.

(00:55):
Maybe it's other mental healthconditions that you're
struggling with.
maybe it's just overwhelm andburnout, but you, yeah.
Burnt out.
Burnt out perhaps.
but it's hard to do basic thingslike.
I'll be the first to say that.
Like, when I'm really depressed,it's horrible and I hate it, but
the first thing to go is likebrushing my teeth.

(01:16):
I will like drop that.
and that's something that'shard.
Like it's hard to do basicthings.
Sometimes shower, brush yourteeth.
Sometimes it's hard to just takethe trash out or clean your
dishes from the day, the week,the month, you know, depending
on where you're at.
And I think I've kind of been inthat space for a long time.

(01:36):
I know Rebecca and I have bothbeen there.
What are some things that go,when you're really depressed or
overwhelmed, what are somethings you stop doing to care
for yourself?

Rebecca (01:44):
See, I was just thinking about that, and it was
like, it's kind of like having agun to your head when you have a
kid in the house and it's likeyou're in the hole, but also you
kind of, you still have to getup and you still have to make
them lunch, and you still haveto wake them up and get'em off
to school.
And it's like, and I don't meanthat in like a martyring type of

(02:04):
way.
I just mean it in

Jamie (02:05):
Yeah.

Rebecca (02:06):
someone's depending on you.
So not only are you in the hole,but then you're having to push
through, which doesn't make itbetter.

Jamie (02:16):
No,

Rebecca (02:17):
There's no time to like,

Jamie (02:18):
that can make it

Rebecca (02:19):
you know.
Exactly.
It's, there's, so it's just,it's like a layer, a layer, a
layer of just feeling likeyou're, you're emptying out
everything and not getting achance to kind of regenerate.

Jamie (02:31):
but what things, so like, I know it's not the same, but
you know, my favorite thing isbeing like, kids are like having
a cat.
It's the same thing.
Parents.
it's like I still care for mycats.
Of course.
And I know that's completelydifferent, but What about you?
What

Rebecca (02:47):
I would say probably like eating.
I think eating goes out and it'slike, I just don't want to, just
any

Jamie (02:55):
Like social interaction more, more than

Rebecca (02:57):
Oh, ab abso absolutely not.
Ab not even that.
No.

Jamie (03:02):
No, I'm saying like, does that go more do you avoid

Rebecca (03:06):
Oh, yeah.
Oh, I avoid everybody

Jamie (03:09):
would?

Rebecca (03:09):
100%.
I avoid everybody.
I, I spend a lot of time like inthe couch corner, like if I'm in
the hole, it's just in the couchcorner and like I have enough
energy to.
Just read a book or use

Jamie (03:21):
Play a mindless game or,

Rebecca (03:24):
yeah.
Just nothing that requiresextensive mental loads.
Cooking, which I guess goes witheating, but like cooking feels
cooking, so like basic housemaintenance stuff feels super
overwhelming.
Like cooking or, oh my God, Ihave to clean the kitchen or
unload the dishwasher.
That's the stuff that it feelslike insurmountable, weirdly,
even though, you know, it's justsomething that you can do

Jamie (03:46):
mm-hmm.
Sometimes it's even somethingthat like, you can do quickly,
but it's I can't, like we eventalked about, there are times
where you can't even get outtabed because of what's going on
in your life or in your head.

Rebecca (04:00):
You have to psych yourself up to do, like, I do a
lot of like, okay, here we go.
There's a lot of inner narrativeof, okay, um, we're gonna go do
this.
And like, having to like gatherup the energy to, to do
something even when you, again,you've done it a million times
before,

Jamie (04:16):
And then you're also trying to find like, yeah,
you're trying to find like themotivation, like to do those
things.
and sometimes it just doesn'tcome.

Rebecca (04:24):
Yeah.
And also, if you are, currentlyoff insurance and unemployed and
you don't have like medicationavailable consistently because
doctors are fucking expensive,

Jamie (04:36):
And meds are

Rebecca (04:36):
then I.
So if you're out of them or ifyou don't have access to them,
like that makes it a milliontimes worse because not only are
you like, you're not evengetting that, that, um, I was
gonna say legal meth, but that'snot, you're not even getting
like that,

Jamie (04:52):
say legal meth.
You can say legal meth.

Rebecca (04:54):
that like that artificial boost from medication
that you would do, you know whatI mean?
Like, you're not even gettingthat.
So you're having to make yourown serotonin and that's not
happening.

Jamie (05:04):
No, it is not.
Yeah, I told Rebecca not all ofmy meds, but there have been
some meds that I've been off offor a couple weeks, maybe a
little more than a couple weeks.
but yesterday I just, I think mydoctor, my PCP got, uh, an alert
for like to fill a prescriptionfor me and then he, like, he
looked and said, oh, I haven'tseen Jamie in like a year and a

(05:27):
half.
I'm gonna have to, gonna have tosee her to fill this.
And it was actually perfecttiming because right now I'm
trying to ditch my psychiatristbecause being unemployed without
insurance, um, that's expensive.
hi Josh.
Welcome in.
You almost made me think youwere my dad again though.
Hi dad.
and yeah, I just, it was perfecttiming'cause I wanted to, I,

(05:52):
sorry, I lost the train ofthought.
It was perfect timing because Iwanted to ditch my psychiatrist
'cause he's too expensive and Iknow that, like, I'm on a DHD
meds, so those have to be,they're like legally, like my
doctor still has to see me orhave an appointment with me
every three months to continuethat prescription.

(06:12):
But other than that I'm justlike, here are all the meds I'm
taking.
I.
At one point, my PCP did manageall of my medications anyway, so
like he, he's familiar with whatI take because it hasn't changed
too much.
and I was so anxious, like Ididn't wanna, I knew I had to go
to the appointment and Iactually like my doctor, this
was the first time in forever.

(06:33):
it took me like 35 years to finda doctor that I, I like, and
that I feel is supporting me andlooking out for the best for me.
so thank you, drew.
If you're listening to this, I'mjust kidding.
He's not.
but yeah, I was so anxious aboutit.
And then I went in and it was, Imean, it was like a 20, 25
minute visit, but, you know, hejust like checked me out, made

(06:57):
sure, you know, like did alittle like physical exam, made
sure I was okay, likephysically, and I was healthy.
Everything checks out,everything's good.
always a load off my mind.
and then we just talked meds andgot that straightened out and
then I was able to immediatelygo and pick up all the
medications that I've been outof.
And today's really the first daythat I started taking all my

(07:19):
meds again.
And it's just a world ofdifference.
And it's so sad because likethat shit's so expensive, but
it's you need it to function orI do.

Rebecca (07:29):
right.
And the like.
And when you're in the holehaving to get up and go out and
then interact and do moreactivities, like going to a
secondary location,

Jamie (07:42):
Mm-hmm.

Rebecca (07:43):
it's, I.
It would just drain me for therest of the

Jamie (07:46):
That's why I bought lipstick'cause I was at CVS, so
I also like got myself a littletreat, a special treat for a
special little guy.

Rebecca (07:53):
For a special day.
Yeah.

Jamie (07:55):
Yeah, I like to, I don't know if you do this because I
hate going out into the worldand dealing with people and I'm
at home all the time.
I'll like bundle all of my out,have to go out in the world
tasks.
So like even if I didn't have tolike also go get meds, like I
would typically do, like I'mgonna go to the doctor, then I'm

(08:17):
gonna go like pick up a coffeefor myself as a treat, and like
then I'll go get my meds andthen I'll go, to the grocery
store and pick up a fewgroceries.
So then I feel like, okay, I'veaccomplished a lot, like I've
gotten done what I need to getdone and I've done it all in a
day.
But sometimes even just doinglike one thing, like even just

(08:38):
going to the doctor that day isdon't know, you're like, Ugh, I
went out.
Like you were gone for like anhour and you're like, I went
out, I did things.
I'm done.

Rebecca (08:48):
Yeah.
And then having to show up atwork, and I'm not saying acting
like everything's fine, buthaving to show up in work and
having to produce things andhave output and to have to sit
in meetings and to have tofunction.

Jamie (09:04):
Function for your kid, function for your family,
function for your work, yourboss, your friends, even
sometimes.

Rebecca (09:12):
So then you, yeah, you just, you, you feel like at the
end of the day there's nothingelse, what have you found, I
mean, I know you said youstarted your meds again, but
like what have you been findingthat has been helping you kind
of get back out of it or kind ofget back?

Jamie (09:27):
Yeah.
So I haven't found a full-timerole, but I have started
freelancing.
I'm actually.
Working not directly withRebecca, but I'm working at
Rebecca's work.
oh, am I allowed?
Maybe I'm not allowed to saythat.
Oops.
It's sad.
we'll add it to the show notes.
Just kidding.
but listen, we were so excitedto talk to each other on Slack
again.

(09:47):
I was like, I couldn't wait tolike, pick the gift that I was
gonna send her for, like beingon Slack for the first time and
it was just such a thing.
High five.
Jobber.
Thanks, pat.
Hi Pat.
Welcome in.
but yeah, I think that because Ifelt thrown into chaos and I
know it's like, oh, like blurme.
Like I haven't done any work.

(10:10):
Hi paper, welcome.
I haven't done any work.
Or like, I've been laid off forsix months and now I ha finally
have work to do.
It's like, shut up and just dothe work, which I am.
But it's been more of a strugglethan I thought.
And so it's kind of made merethink.
Just kind of,'cause I haven'tbeen on a schedule.
I've literally, you know, this,like, I've been able to do
whatever the fuck I want and getup whenever I want.

(10:31):
And, still applying for jobs,still working on the podcast and
doing some like, other freelancework.
But for the most part, I didn'treally have many, like deadlines
or schedules or things I had todo, that week.
So everything kept getting putoff.
And so working again and gettinga little overwhelmed, like my

(10:53):
first week has made me say like,okay, now you, now you know what
to do.
Like, you know, you have toschedule your time better and
have these task lists so youlike, make sure you're getting
stuff done for your clients.
And, and just that has likecaused me to kind of look at
like even my home and likepersonal life in that way and.

(11:15):
This is like, I don't wanna get,I don't wanna get too, I'm like
getting teary.
you told me this might happen.
I think it's going on like twoyears now that I've had like,
depression apartment.
I don't think it's depressionapartment anymore.
but I just, I have a lot ofstuff.
It's like things are clean, butI just have too much shit.

(11:38):
Like you guys can, see in mybackground, like how much shit I
have just like, piled up in myoffice, which is like my junk
room right now.
Like, I don't wanna live likethat.
Like I wanna have a clean deskand like feel good when I have
to sit down and do work or,record the podcast.
And even just like gaming whenI'm trying to like, relax and
unwind at the end of the day.

(12:00):
And so it's just gone on way toolong.
But I just hadn't been at apoint where I could get out of
it because honestly, it was likemy grandpa died.
work became so overwhelming andawful, and there was like a
little bit of moral injurythere.
yes, marina, come, are you gonnacome here and help me declutter

(12:22):
my apartment?
I would love that.
Please come visit, come staywith me.
but it's just, yeah.
Anyway, so work was stressful.
Then I got laid off, and thenthat was like, I was like, all
right, this is my chance and I'mgonna get rid of everything and
go through my entire wardrobeand pair everything down.
I've done a little bit of that.

(12:44):
But I haven't done a lot of thatat all.
And so I've just been startingto do more of that.
Like I did, not that anyone cannotice but me.
But I did go through, I don'tknow, like a quarter of my
office and like get rid ofthings and honestly just throw
out trash and like some boxesthat were in here just like
lying around, from stuff Iunboxed and put together and

(13:05):
then just left the box there.
yeah.

Rebecca (13:08):
See, this is where it's like, I feel like I am very
lucky to have a second person inthe household with me because

Jamie (13:16):
True.
Yeah.

Rebecca (13:17):
I have somebody who takes out the boxes and does the
recycling.

Jamie (13:22):
Send them over.

Rebecca (13:22):
so I, I can't, I'm just saying like, I can't imagine how
hard, like, to have to be incharge of all the things.
'cause that's a diff like,that's a difference.
You are in charge of all thethings, and we talked about this
before.
You have to be in charge ofeverything.
And I, I have someone who'spicking up the slack when I drop
the ball

Jamie (13:41):
Yeah.

Rebecca (13:42):
and it's just, there's that, it's not fair, but it's
just like there's, there shouldbe, I don't know.
There's just having to be incharge of everything all the
time has to be draining.

Jamie (13:53):
yeah, it is.
There were times like, Iremember I was like joking, but
not joking, where I would liketell you guys my friends, I
would just be like, all right.
I was single at the time and Iwas like, all right, time for me
to get a partner.
I need someone to do my dishes.
Like, this is ridiculous.
I need someone to go with me onSaturday to run errands like.
And that's the thing too, islike all of my friends, oh, hi

(14:16):
Liz.
Well, well, well, Liz, yes.
Look at her.
Oh, welcome, Liz.
If you guys haven't listened toLiz's episode, I believe it's
28, episode 28, please go listento it.
Liz is so amazing.
We love you

Rebecca (14:32):
Yes.

Jamie (14:33):
anyway.
but yeah, I like it was half ajoke, but honestly it was like,
yeah, that is nice.
It's like at the same time we'vetalked about kind of like the
give and take of both situationsof like having a family, having
kids, or being alone and livingalone.
and I think the difference, likethey're both very difficult and

(14:55):
I think, like for me, right,it's, I don't have another
person to help me and like yousaid, pick up the slack, but
then for you it's like there's alot more to do.
Then there's also a child orchildren in other people's cases
like that depend on you.

Rebecca (15:10):
Yeah, how can, how can I be in charge of somebody?

Jamie (15:12):
yeah, I know like when I'm like my worst and I'm in
like my darkest depression hole,I'm really just the first thing
is just like, take care of thecats, make sure that cats are
fed and watered and they taketheir meds and they're okay.
And they're happy.
And they're safe, and they havea clean place to poop, I'm like

(15:32):
secondary.
And that's kind of what happenedtoo with like my plants.
Like I had, I had a 50 someplant collection in my
apartment.

Rebecca (15:41):
I don't think you're gonna talk about your plans.
This is the heartbreaking partthat like bums me out on.
So.

Jamie (15:46):
me too.
Me too.
I spent so much time and moneyon these plants and like.
I love plants and I loved it,but I was so depressed that it
just started with I can't dothis today.
Also, it's like, motherfuckerdon't get 50 plants.
What are you doing?
Like you are giving yourself awhole other job to do.

(16:08):
Let's take it small.
And I haven't reached the pointyet.
I say like, people can laughand, and joke about it, but I
say that it's very traumatic.
Like I actually haven't evenbeen out on my balcony.
I have a nice balcony.
I haven't been out there'causethere's, there are still dead
plants out there.
All the dead plants in myapartment I've finally gotten
rid of.
But some of them were here forlike a year'cause I just

(16:30):
couldn't even address it'causeit was like so traumatic.
Because this is the thing thatwas like a hobby and it made me
happy and it was like thisliving thing that I was taking
care of and it was so beautifuland I was just so interested in
plants and.
They were beautiful and I gotrare plants and, so much joy
surrounding that.
And now there's like so muchtrauma, so I'm just waiting for,

(16:53):
that's what we talk about,right?
Baby steps.
So like baby steps for me, likeI couldn't even throw out my
dead plants that were in myapartment.
Friends would come over and saysomething about it.
I'm looking at you, Rob.
why do you have all these deadpla dead plants still in your
apartment?
And I like, I can laugh about itnow, but it, it, it was so
traumatic for me, I couldn'teven touch'em.

(17:14):
So the first step was throwing'em out and I can actually thank
my mom for that.
'cause when she was here lasttime, she said, why don't you
let me throw out some of theseplants?
And I was like, well some ofthem I wanna keep this pod and I
don't wanna throw it out'causethese are nice plastic pots.
And so I just kind of gave herdirections and she did it.
And then I did a little more andwe got'em all outta here.

(17:37):
Thank you mom for kicking mybutt.
Hi manic.

Rebecca (17:41):
Well, I mean, it's like a, it's like a physical
manifestation on the outside ofhow you're feeling on the
inside.

Jamie (17:47):
Yeah, exactly.
And like my whole apartment too.
Like I think the first time,manic came to my apartment, I
was just like so horrifiedbecause I'm like, it just kind
of feels like this isn't me,this is my mental illness.
or this, not, not evennecessarily that I'm really
struggling with mental illnessat the time, but this is because

(18:08):
I was in a really dark place fora long time.
so yeah, I mean, it is veryemotional, but I guess like,
that's why I wanted to talkabout this because.
I think everybody has maybe liketheir little like secret like
shame and they feel ashamedabout it.
and they don't want to talkabout it.
Or they don't even tell theirfriends or let their friends

(18:29):
know that this thing got so bador, I dunno, like left that dish
in the sink too long and it gotmoldy.
it didn't, I don't know.
I'm just trying to think of likelittle things that just go to
the wayside and then grow.
And anyway, you're not alone.
It happens.
And if you have people aroundyou that love you and support

(18:53):
you, they'll help you.
And sometimes, sometimes peopledon't know what to do and
sometimes people don't know youneed help.
So sometimes it's good to askfor help.

Rebecca (19:04):
Do you find that it's coming like in waves or do you
find it's like you get out of itand then you kind of, not
relapse, it's not the rightword, but like have two steps
back, or is it just a continuousmomentum forward?
I.

Jamie (19:19):
I think it depends.
I think that I was getting somemomentum like months and months
ago, but it kind of kept goingback.
So I would do something and feelreally good about it and feel
like accomplished.
And I'll tell you what, it helpsthat I'm in a long distance
relationship and my partnercomes to visit and come, comes

(19:39):
to my apartment every like threemonths.
Both of us have talked aboutthat.
Even it's like we should, shouldjust keep visiting each other
and seeing each other becauselike then we'll both keep up
with tasks and not, you know,be.
Behind on everything.
so that's helped, that's helpedwith like, keeping my apartment
clean.
It's just I have to get rid ofstuff at this point.

(20:00):
And yeah.
I don't even know if I answered

Rebecca (20:04):
had a break.
No, I've had to like, actually,I think I showed you like I have
a day planner.
I've had to break down the stuffthat just feels like too much.
I've just, because you look atsomething, and I call it the
giving a mouse a cookie, whereit's just like, well, if you
give a mouse a cookie, he needsa cup of milk and then blah,
blah, blah.
Pretty soon you're like, well,everything needs to be redone.

(20:24):
So I've just started likebreaking it up into like one a
day, and then you only do thatone thing.
And that sounds so stupid andlike a no shit thing.
But it takes the, not the shame,but like, well, yeah, I guess
the shame or the stress out ofit.
So then it's like, well, I havedone it.
And then when I see everythingelse that I'm like, Ugh, I wanna

(20:46):
organize this or redo this, it'slike, well, I'm getting to it,
but not right now.
But like it will happen.
And so, and I think you calledit, what did your therapist call
it?
The

Jamie (20:56):
I don't remember.

Rebecca (20:57):
should've shoulding or,

Jamie (20:59):
Oh, shitting all over yourself.

Rebecca (21:02):
Shoulding all over yourself.
Like I should have.
Yeah.

Jamie (21:05):
she was like, oh, you're shitting all over yourself.
She's like, it's what our UStherapists call shitting all
over yourself.
And I was like, shitting allover myself.
That's what therapists call.
She's like, no, Jamie should.
Yeah.
You're just like, I should dothis.
I should do this.
I'm like, that felt, first ofall, I grabbed this because,
whatever, this is kind of dorky,but, um, I got a new notebook to

(21:25):
fix my life, Rebecca.

Rebecca (21:27):
fuck.

Jamie (21:28):
and so I started,

Rebecca (21:29):
in it Okay, good.

Jamie (21:30):
I have, and so this one's kind of like more like a guided,
so it does have like sections,but it has like tasks and stuff.
I'm like, yeah.
So I thought that was funnybecause we're always talking

Rebecca (21:41):
Yeah.
But when you, when you broughtup shoulding all over yourself,
I realized like that's what I'vebeen doing is'cause I didn't
know, I don't know, like that'swhat it was, but it was like
instead of being like, oh man,it's like, okay, well I will.
And like it's in the plan.
And so that, that takes awaysort of that like that should've

Jamie (21:58):
Yeah.

Rebecca (21:59):
feeling.

Jamie (22:00):
Yeah.
I wish I had it.
I would like take pictures ofit.
I might have pictures of it, butwhen I was at my old apartment,
I didn't know that I would bemoving.
at the time I was like talkingwith a partner about moving in,
I had looked around my apartmentand I was like, I have too much
stuff.
Like, especially if I'm gonnalive with somebody, right.
I.

(22:21):
I mapped out this whole list andI broke my apartment up into not
just rooms, but like sections ofrooms.
And that's exactly what I did,what you said you're doing.
So like I put, let's say I putbedroom, but then it had like
six, seven things on that list.
And it was like small dresser,little dresser, right half of

(22:43):
closet.
Like I really broke it down aslike, do this or do what's on
the floor of the closet, gothrough the stuff that's under
your bed.
And all of those were separate.
And I plotted it out so that Iwould,'cause I wanted to have it
done by a certain month justbecause I thought like we might
be considering moving in.
And I was like, oh, it would besuch a great start.
And so I plotted it out, addedup all the, like subtasks, and

(23:07):
then divided them by the days.
And I was like, okay, like inthree months I'm gonna do all
this.
And I did it.
And it felt so good, and I,like, I stuck with it.
I don't know how I had themotivation then, but I guess I
was in a good place and,functioning executively,

Rebecca (23:22):
Yeah.
And it sounds so cliche, like Ibroke it up into little, like,
big tasks and little tasks.
But the other thing I wasthinking that just came to me is
that there's a level of guilttoo that comes with, if I leave
a mess on the counter orsomething, it's like I'm forcing
two other people to deal withit.
And it's like they don't deservethat.
They don't like, why am I doingthat to them?

(23:43):
And that, so there's a wholelike extra layer of guilt

Jamie (23:46):
I'm fine doing that shit to myself apparently.

Rebecca (23:50):
but do you know what I mean?
So it's just like, so thenthere's like guilt and stress on
like, and so that's why thelittle stuff has helped a lot
because it's like, okay, we'regoing to get it done.
we'll finish it.
yeah, but it's just.

Jamie (24:05):
maybe we will do our spring cleaning episode sometime
soon.
Who knows?
I think I

Rebecca (24:09):
yeah, I mean, I I went through my closet.
My closet was just honestly abunch of stuff that I, when we
moved, I was just like, I can'tfucking deal with this.
And then it was, what, threeyears later, I was like, well, I
guess I gotta deal with

Jamie (24:22):
Now I feel like I have

Rebecca (24:23):
then I,

Jamie (24:23):
Yeah.
Than when I moved.
Gone.

Rebecca (24:25):
well, I was, and then I just started doing it.
And then I was like, okay, wellthis isn't that bad.
And then I just kept doing it.
I was like, oh, okay.
And then I was done, becausebefore I would start and I would
just be, I would just freezebecause there was just too much
to do and I didn't know where tostart.
And I didn't know what to do.
'cause I'd be like, well, I haveto do the closet and then the
bathroom, and then this, andthis and this.
And I just wouldn't, I justcouldn't pick a, pick anything

(24:48):
to start with.
But just having that one littlething, I know when it starts and
I know when it's done.

Jamie (24:54):
Yeah.

Rebecca (24:54):
And so I don't, I don't know what that, it's like time
blindness, but for tasks,

Jamie (24:59):
Mm-hmm.
And I feel like you can even doI don't know, like my therapist
had told me and I did it for alittle bit, but then I stopped.
But I have have been doing itagain.
It's the doom piles, right?
We

Rebecca (25:13):
see I did try it and those pissed me

Jamie (25:16):
Oh, so like

Rebecca (25:18):
I tried it.

Jamie (25:18):
pile a day or something, or a week.

Rebecca (25:21):
Oh, break.
oh, oh.
So I was doing the thing where Iwas just putting everything in
the bin to like declutter, butthen I would have like a fucking
bin and I, it made me so mad'cause I'm like trying to find
that thing.
So I did try that.
But undoing the doom piles isvery satisfying.

Jamie (25:37):
because it's like I, I think when Manic was here, my
partner was here, he wasactually like, I like that we
both have our own little, like,organized piles of like chaos,
but like they're in like thisorganized fashion, like for us.
And it's like, yeah.
But I was talking to mytherapist about it and she's
like, just pick a pile a day.
It can be the smallest pile.

(25:58):
Like just be like, oh, there's apile of mail that's probably all
trash on my kitchen table.
I'm gonna go through that todayand take care of it.
And so it's just stuff likethat.
And again, yeah, we know thisisn't stuff that nobody's ever
heard, but we've talked about ithere and there, but we haven't
really talked about it andfocused on it at length.
And it's just been like.

(26:20):
Yeah, just been top of mind andI have noticed that like now I
have some work and that's beengreat.
And it is kind of like pushingme to get more structure other
places and I would saymotivating me a little bit, but
I could still use some moremotivation.

Rebecca (26:40):
like I said, it's only my professional reputation.

Jamie (26:42):
Yeah.
See, and there's that stress.

Rebecca (26:44):
I'm

Jamie (26:44):
like I think I told someone that it might've been my
parents.
I was like, and I don't wannalike embarrass Rebecca in front
of her work colleagues.

Rebecca (26:54):
My work colleagues every, that was nice.
So like, you were like, Heyguys, and literally like three
other people knew who you were,which was really I know you
don't know everyone, but it was,it was just nice that you got to
go to a place where like peoplealready knew you.

Jamie (27:04):
Yeah.
No, it is nice.
And like some of the writerstoo, so that's been great.
I,

Rebecca (27:09):
It, I went to my, oh sorry.
Go ahead.

Jamie (27:11):
I was just gonna, we missed some stuff in chat.
I wanted to go back, but Goahead.

Rebecca (27:14):
I would say I went to my friend's house, today and I
was helping out and uh, she'sone of the most together people
I know.
And I saw a male pile, and thenI saw her basement.
And I'm not saying, and this isnot to be like tis tisk or, but
it was just like, oh, she has apile of laundry, so that's
normal.
And so the stuff that like I, Ithink I beat myself up for, I'm

(27:38):
like, oh, it's not just me thatdoes this.
They're there who do have ittogether more than I do maybe
who are still doing it becauselife is a fucking nightmare and
everyone is busy and no one hastime.

Jamie (27:52):
I think that's part of,

Rebecca (27:54):
Patriarchy and capitalism,

Jamie (27:56):
yes, always,

Rebecca (27:57):
Jess.

Jamie (27:58):
but also I.
How we like grew up, I guess.
I don't know about you, but, Ilove you, mom, but my mother and
also my sibling, so my familythat lives close by.
They are,

Rebecca (28:12):
Fastidious.

Jamie (28:13):
yeah.
It's insane.
And like we had to do chores as,as kids, but it did feel like,
and just seeing, I don't know,growing up and even as an adult,
like being there and watching mymom be like, people are coming
over and see how stressed shewas and like everything she did
that it's like, nobody's gonnasee that, but like it in her

(28:35):
mind, you know?
And

Rebecca (28:38):
I think it's generational though, right?
Like didn't, if her parents wereto come over.
'cause I know if my grandpa cameover to my mom's house and it
was messy, he'd say something.
So it's like you're judged onthe house.
You keep, but our generation islike, we love you.
If you have stuff in your floor,we don't

Jamie (28:51):
I guess my mom has to be a guest now because I don't, I
don't know about that dynamic,so I'll have to ask what that's
like.
But yeah, I

Rebecca (29:00):
your house is a reflection of who you like.
This is a reflection of who youare and

Jamie (29:05):
And like, but I guess that's what I'm trying to say is
like, I think that's theproblem.
I'm not saying like everybodyshould just never clean their
house and like, have all theclutter you want and make it
uncomfortable for people.
Don't do that, but like the waywe have to.
'cause I would never like, okay,like being at your friend's
house today, right?
you saw that and you were like,oh, cause you kind of thought

(29:27):
she was the, super type A OCD,

Rebecca (29:30):
And she's, and she is.
That's the thing.
She is.
But it's just like okay, so thisis just a

Jamie (29:35):
comforting.
Yeah.
It's like comforting knowingthat like other people.
Do that too.
And that that's normal andnatural.
And whether the cleanliness ofyour house is morally neutral to
some extent.
and it's just, I don't know.
I don't know what I'm trying tosay.
I just, I think we're so stuckon making things perfect, or

(30:01):
some of us, I think other peoplemaybe have it under control.
When I had an auntie who wouldiron the towels spotless, iron
the towels,

Rebecca (30:11):
See, when I met Rob, Rob had it all under control,
but he also didn't havefurniture

Jamie (30:16):
I thought you were gonna say friends.
Sorry,

Rebecca (30:18):
well that too, but he had like, he had like, a single
guy covers, it was like a plate.
Handicap.
And so he had a lot less things,but it was a spotless apartment,
but it was also a studioapartment and very small.
And I think one of the thingsis, I think our generation has
been taught, like as we move outthrough our careers, our houses
are supposed to grow with us.

(30:40):
and the amount of stuff we haveis supposed to grow with us as
our salaries increase, as ourcareers increase, except
actually it just becomesuntenable and unmanageable.

Jamie (30:49):
Well, and also it's I'm I'm never gonna own a house.
Like that's how I feel.
I'm like, I'm never gonna own ahouse.
It's just not gonna happen.
and I know, never say never, butI just don't, don't see it
happening right now or anytimein the future.
But things could change.
But it's like a lot of us, likedon't even own houses and like
can't.
And it's

Rebecca (31:07):
Right.

Jamie (31:07):
that's what they expect.
I think that's what they expect.
You know, like, oh, well youhave.
This much stuff and you're thisage now and you're this many
years into your career, like youshould have a house and then all
that stuff is spread out.
So it's not all like containedin a single room like Jamie's
office.

Rebecca (31:26):
Yeah, and that's a really good point.
'cause again, the boomers haveall the houses and they made it
impossible for anyone else.

Jamie (31:35):
How boomers have ruined everything episode

Rebecca (31:40):
now, we're depressed

Jamie (31:41):
I know.
Now we're depressed again.
I do wanna go back though'causeI think people had some good
things to say.
Torah said this is motivating meto start cleaning.
I'm gonna do a little sectionnow.
That's awesome.
paper said I've been trying tolearn not to see everything is
productivity.
When some, I'm trying to learn.
Not to see everything asproductivity, when sometimes
even getting out of bed has beentough sometimes.

(32:03):
Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
Like sometimes you're in a deepdark hole, you're in a funk, and
you haven't been able to getoutta bed.
So the day that you do get outtabed, like that's a win.
And it doesn't feel like it, butit really is.
Hey, Shep.
Um, breaking it down into smalltasks is such a good hack with a

(32:24):
DHD.
Yeah.
Torah.
Agree.
I thought Liz said something.
I must have missed it.
Oh, here we

Rebecca (32:30):
Liz doesn't understand why people give you hard to keep
plants when someone dies.
Like it's impossible, likeorchids.
Those are crazy hard to take tocare for.

Jamie (32:39):
Rebecca.
See when people die, Rebeccasends me succulents.
Those are great.
I have.
I do have two succulents thatare alive right now from you.
Well, one of'em is like onefifth alive.
I will have to say.
But that was from when mygrandpa died, so my birthday
succulent, which is when mythirties died, is still very

(32:59):
much alive.

Rebecca (33:00):
Yeah.
I either send food orsucculents.
'cause

Jamie (33:03):
Yeah.
Cheesecake and succulents.
I think we're done here.
Cheesecake and suc, succulents.
I send condolence snacks.
Yeah, marina sends snacks too.
It's great.

Rebecca (33:16):
and it's, this is where I become a communist, but it's
the whole, it takes a village toraise a child.
But I also think.
Just we as people need villages,which we don't have.
We're so spread apart.
We don't have people nearby.
It's so hard to ask for help.
And communal living, again, Iknow it sounds super hippy dippy
and super communist, but thatwhole village aspect is

(33:39):
completely gone.
And now it's just capitalismbased and it's my house, my
stuff.

Jamie (33:44):
Yeah,

Rebecca (33:45):
and so people who need the help or need that village
don't have access to it at all.

Jamie (33:51):
to says, not to brag, but I just cleaned my hallway doom
pile and my dresser, I've beenputting it off for ages and it
only took me 15 minutes.
I, that happens.

Rebecca (33:59):
It's like, It's like, fuck, I don't wanna do it.
I don't wanna do it.
And then you do it like, well, Icould have done that a long time
ago.

Jamie (34:06):
I'll do the timer thing sometimes too, or I'll be like,
I don't know where to start, andso I'll just like set a timer
for, sometimes it's.
15 minutes.
Sometimes it's 30, sometimesit's an hour, like, depending on
how I'm feeling.
But I'll just set a timer forlike 20 minutes and just say,
just do stuff in the kitchen.
Like you have a lot of things todo in the kitchen.
Just start doing things.

(34:26):
So I'll do some dishes.
Maybe I'm cleaning out thefridge and throwing out like old
food that I should have thrownout and wiping down counters.
And then I just do it for, the20 minutes.
And once it's up, I always tellmyself like, if you feel good to
keep going and want to, then youcan keep going.
But once it's up, you can belike, you know what, I'm done.
I did my 15, 20 minutes.

(34:47):
I'm done.
Good morning.
Q Morning.

Rebecca (34:50):
there was a while there where it was like.
I just felt like shit all thetime and I just couldn't have
the energy.
But then I was like, well, am Idepressed?
I mean, the world's bad, but Idon't feel super depressed.
So it was, anyway, long story,long.
It's nice finding out that youhave a chronic illness

Jamie (35:06):
Yeah.

Rebecca (35:07):
because I would just keep beating myself up and I'm
like, I don't, what, what isgoing on?
I'm exhausted.
It's hard to, it's hard to move.
It's hard to do everything.
so it's really hard to notinternalize, like when you're
unable to do something or youjust don't have the energy or
you put something off.
'cause you simply cannot

Jamie (35:24):
or if you're,

Rebecca (35:25):
and, and it's hard.

Jamie (35:26):
or if you're like dealing with pain.
'cause like I know you deal withpain too, and we talk about like
invisible illnesses and that canmake things a lot harder too.
Like, that can make things likewhere you can't do them, where
you have to get help to do somethings, you know?
In some cases,

Rebecca (35:43):
Exactly.
So like that's, but I think thefirst instinct though is not to
be like, well, maybe it's anillness.
It's just like, well, I'mobviously a sloppy piece of shit
who can't get off the couch andis just gross and

Jamie (35:55):
Everyone has their shit together.
But me that's like, yeah, that'salways playing in my head.

Rebecca (36:01):
When actually it's well, maybe there's something
else.
But you never think

Jamie (36:04):
When actually it's like, hang on, do you really think
these other people have theirshit together?
You know, they don't have theirshit together.
Just

Rebecca (36:09):
It's not a, but it's like, it's not a character
defect when actually you neverconsider that.
It's all, it's clearly, it justmust be me.

Jamie (36:16):
Yeah.

Rebecca (36:17):
I don't know.

Jamie (36:18):
Shep said it's celebrating the things we have
done, taking the actual time tohighlight our accomplishments.
Regardless of size, it'severything for a mental health
and creating a safe space insideourselves.
Chronic pain and illness arelife changing.
I can relate very much.
We deserve to give ourselveskindness because we are our
harshest critic.
Yeah.
And it, yeah.

Rebecca (36:39):
I will say having the kid, you can make'em do chores.

Jamie (36:43):
yeah.
Oh, that is good.
Yeah.

Rebecca (36:45):
I'm just gonna say it.

Jamie (36:46):
always yelling at the cats like, I'm like, you don't
do anything.
Like

Rebecca (36:50):
I know, but it's like you fucking live here.
You can go

Jamie (36:52):
Bare handed a piece of dried poop from your butt and
you like, can't even like, takeout your own litter, please.
Come on.

Rebecca (37:01):
God no, I know, but it's like once your kids are old
enough to like startcontributing to the house, it's
like, oh.
And that's the other thing.
I think people just take it onthemselves.
'cause you, again, you feel likethat responsibility, but it's
like, oh, there are other peoplewho live here and one of them's
a child and she's gotta learnhow to do it and she can go do
this.
Not

Jamie (37:19):
But then there's also the,

Rebecca (37:21):
pretty great.

Jamie (37:22):
yeah, but then there's also, let's teach, you know,
let's teach her to, know how todo these things and know how to
like the basics to take care ofherself or take care of her
living space.
But it's also like, but I alsodon't wanna like pass on my
trauma that I have aboutcleaning or anything.
I mean, it could not just becleaning, from my parents to,

(37:45):
yeah.
do you think about that?

Rebecca (37:47):
Go get the remote.
No, she would always meet me, goget the remote for her.
And I hated her so much for it.
And now I make Emily do it allthe time.
Go, go get, can you go get Emilythe rope?
Just gimme the remote, please.

Jamie (37:58):
but that's not

Rebecca (37:59):
And now I know why

Jamie (38:01):
She's gonna, she's gonna start a podcast in like 20 years
and it'll be like, oh, my momalways made me get the remote
for her.
Like, why couldn't she just getthe remote?

Rebecca (38:10):
it's really because you're being a shithead and
you're like, now I'm just gonnamake it hard for you.
But, um, but really though, liketeaching her how to dust and
teaching her how to clean and.
I think I mentioned before, likewe do get our house cleaned
every other week, but she has topick up her stuff first and she
has to learn how to do this.
And so, I don't know, those areskills that she needs soon.

(38:34):
Like in five years, if she goesto college and lives in a dorm,
you know, like she's gonna haveto learn how to pee.
So, but it's hard when you'renot good at it or it's hard when
they've inherited your odd HDAhundred percent.

(39:08):
Well, I mean, really though, inthe olden days, that's why they
had chil, that's why they had somany children, because a lot of
'em lived on farms or that typeof thing.
And so they.
Rob hasn't tried telling him tograb me a beer from the fridge
yet, but I bet you she would.

Jamie (39:21):
I swear.
I swear he did that even when wewere on vacation, Rob, when we
were all on family vacation, I'mpretty sure.

Rebecca (39:29):
My mom taught her how to open a beer.
She's, oh, she's there nowvisiting and my mom taught her
how to use the beer opener, sothat'll be a fun surprise when
she comes home.
I know,

Jamie (39:38):
like how you're like the beer opener, Rob.
You have her trained

Rebecca (39:41):
but No, but like, they would have farms and, and they,
the kids worked the farms likethey children were not children
to have children were

Jamie (39:48):
would like, sometimes they'd like pull'em outta
school.
They'd be like, you're not gonnago to, you're not gonna get
educated anymore.
We need you to get up at four inthe morning and to work until
5:00 PM

Rebecca (40:00):
They were employees and you had a lot,'cause likely one
of'em was gonna get run overwith the tractor a horse or
whatever they

Jamie (40:07):
need you to know how to do this so that when little
Timmy dies.
so that when I accidentally runover Timmy with the well.

Rebecca (40:16):
Yeah, my least favorite.

Jamie (40:19):
No, I'm surprised.
I would like immediately when emgets home, that's like the first
thing you should do.
gimme a beer.

Rebecca (40:26):
I have to ask, and you don't have to answer, but like,
do you also find it coincideswith like changes in your
menstrual cycle too?

Jamie (40:32):
Oh yeah.

Rebecca (40:33):
especially, yeah, so that makes things like even

Jamie (40:37):
Oh yeah.
I have any little motivation Ido happen to have.
If I happen to have it like Ilose, like it's gone.

Rebecca (40:47):
because you have PMDD, right?
Like.

Jamie (40:50):
I always thought I did, but I was told no.
They told me no,

Rebecca (40:55):
do you feel desperately depressed when you get your
period, Jamie?
Because I would vote yes.
Then Was it a man, Jamie did a,did a male gynecologist tell you
no?

Jamie (41:03):
no.
It was actually a female guynow.

Rebecca (41:05):
Oh The period always is just like, well, now I hate
everybody too on top ofeverything else.
So that just makes it a milliontimes worse.

Jamie (41:13):
Well, and then I think, I think I also get, I feel a lot
more vulnerable.
I feel like nobody likes feelingvulnerable.
I try my best to not be insituations where I'm gonna be
vulnerable, I think.
But I mean, I guess I'mvulnerable on the podcast, for
example, but I don't know whereI was going with this.

(41:34):
Feeling vulnerable.

Rebecca (41:35):
either.
I'm not.

Jamie (41:36):
I just lost it.
I'm sorry, what were we justtalking about?

Rebecca (41:39):
okay.
your gynecologist telling youthat you don't have what you
know you have'cause you knowyour body better than a anyone.

Jamie (41:45):
but before that, what were we saying before the PMDD

Rebecca (41:50):
It'll come, it'll come later.

Jamie (41:52):
Oh.
Just being on my period.
Yeah.
That's like, I feel soincredibly vulnerable and frail
and fragile when I'm on myperiod.
And that's that.
I think that's, I don't know, Iguess the frail and fragile part
are parts that I'm not used tofeeling or that I don't like

(42:15):
feel them, maybe I don't feelthem publicly, I don't know.
but that's almost like the worstpart for me about being on my
period is that I'm just like,Ugh.
I'm sensitive to, I'm like extrasensitive.
But

Rebecca (42:29):
So then you're probably even harder on yourself.

Jamie (42:32):
yeah.
cause like sometimes even like,something will happen and I'll
like cry over it and I'll belike, this is so stupid.
Why are you crying over this?
And I know exactly why I'mcrying over it'cause I'm really
emotional and on my period, andvulnerable.
But yeah, it's easier said thandone.
But I think we just all need tolet go of a lot of the things

(42:57):
the patriarchy has taught us.
just to let go of, I guess, ofthe shoulds, right?
Of the should have done this andthe, and like in the shame, we
just need to let go of these.
These rules that we all have inour heads of like how it has to
be.
And like my house has to be thisbefore anyone can come over.

Rebecca (43:19):
Yeah.

Jamie (43:20):
there have been times when I was supposed to have
somebody over and I was like,you know, this isn't gonna work
out because of that, thathappened over Christmas.
'cause I was so depressed and Ihad a major depression house
still at that time.
And I thought I was gonna get ittogether because I love spending
Christmas with my niece andnephew.
It is like literally so magicalwith children.

(43:43):
And, my fa my family, mysibling, my sister-in-law don't
really decorate too much.
I think they're gonna start to,now that Aquinas is older, but
they don't really decorate muchfor Christmas.
And I usually would go all out.
I couldn't even put my tree upand I was like.
This is awful.
Like I don't want to invite themover here.
So, and that sucks because thenI feel like I missed out on, on

(44:06):
that and I know it's okay.
And of course my family's like,that's totally fine.
Just come over here and, youknow, we'll just have a relaxing
day and open presence and playand it'll be fine.
but that's like something Iwanted to have, and it was like
sad that I couldn't pushthrough, you know, for like my
niece and nephew to

Rebecca (44:24):
to counter that, like I, there was a couple years ago,
I felt the exact same way atChristmas when you have like a
kid right in your face and like,when are we gonna do this?
When are we gonna do this?
And you can't put it offanymore.
And it's like, you can't explainto them like, Hey, I'm feeling
because they don't understand

Jamie (44:42):
Christmas is canceled.

Rebecca (44:43):
exactly.
They don't understand that.
And so then it's like, okay,well I'm gonna fuck you up, and
not have Christmas.
I can't do that.
So, but then the energy it takesto, and the.
Mental gymnastics to actually dothe thing, and then you're not
having fun.
And so then you feel guilty fornot having fun like a bad
parent.
And it's just a whole otherlayer of

Jamie (45:02):
Or you do what you can, but then your kid's like,

Rebecca (45:06):
It's not enough.

Jamie (45:07):
where are the, oh, but you didn't put up the stockings,
the special stockings.
Or like, oh, you decorated thetree with just the store-bought
ornaments.
What about our specialornaments?
Mom?
You know, I feel like that waskind of me as a kid, and now I'm
like, fuck, I'm sorry mom.
But

Rebecca (45:24):
No, but it's true.
That's exactly, I mean, that'sexactly true.
I'm like, that's happened.
It's like, well, what aboutthis, this, and this, and why
aren't we putting lights up?
And I'm like, oh my God, look,kid, I, I got this up for you.
Like, I don't know what else youwant from me right now.
But again, it's like they don'thave the capacity to understand.

Jamie (45:41):
But one day they will and they'll start a podcast about
it.

Rebecca (45:45):
My mom didn't put up the Christmas decorations.

Jamie (45:48):
And she always made me get the remote for her

Rebecca (45:51):
the remote.

Jamie (45:52):
mom.
They used, you used to have toget up and press buttons on the
tv.
You remember you're old.

Rebecca (45:59):
There is some stuff though.
She'll be like, mom, we didn'tput out Halloween decorations.
And I'm like, tell yourtherapist about it in 15 years.
I don't fucking care.
there is some stuff that I'vehad to just be like, you know
what kid, that's too

Jamie (46:07):
You're like, this is not

Rebecca (46:08):
Yeah,

Jamie (46:09):
Yeah.

Rebecca (46:11):
a hundred percent.
And part of me wonders like, amI fucking her up with that?
But then the other part of me is

Jamie (46:16):
Do you usually like involve her, like for like
decorating for Christmas?
Are you like, let's, maybethat's

Rebecca (46:22):
No, because I never did any of this before.
I had a kid.
So, I don't know if this is likean autism thing, but like, I
don't have pictures on the wallsof people.
I don't, I never like did thedecorations.
Like it just, I was why, like wehad a tree and stuff, but like,
I didn't do it up.
And now that we have a kid wholikes that kind of thing, it was

(46:43):
like, well, why didn't wedecorate for Easter?
I'm like, well, A,'cause wedon't celebrate and B, but it's
just like, they like that stuff.
And so I'm like, I've never hadto do this.
I don't have, and now I don'thave the energy for it.

Jamie (46:55):
you know what you should do?

Rebecca (46:57):
no, it's not, I'm not decorating.

Jamie (46:59):
No, but listen, she has like her like game room or
whatever, or maybe, maybe it's alittle corner in her room or
somewhere

Rebecca (47:07):
Oh, that is a good idea.
We could decorate her own room.
Yeah.

Jamie (47:11):
don't tell me.
No, I have good ideas, but No,but not even you.
You can be like, okay, anyholiday you wanna decorate for,
you can decorate for, but.
And you can even be like, we'llgo together to wherever.
I would normally say Target, butdon't go to

Rebecca (47:28):
I was just gonna say, we can't fucking go to Target
for their dollar decorationsanymore, so I don't even know,
but yes, agreed.

Jamie (47:34):
Target.

Rebecca (47:35):
And you can decorate your

Jamie (47:36):
yeah.
And then you don't have to doit.
You just like tell her to, andthen you say, and then you say,
and Dad will help you if youneed to, like put something up
high or, yeah.
Yeah.
And then you don't have to dealwith it.
But then like she's still happyand like, she also did it
herself.
I was gonna just suggest thatyou two, like make it

Rebecca (47:55):
That's a

Jamie (47:56):
thing.
Listen to maybe some like heavymetal Christmas music and
Decorate for Christmas with her.
Have like a tradition or have amovie on your favorite Christmas
movie and you're both doing it.
So it's not just you being like,Ugh.
And like she's part of it andshe understands that it's like
work and that it takes time todo these things,

Rebecca (48:15):
Yeah.
I don't know how your mom was,but like, my mom goes balls deep
with holiday decor.
Like she has it in storage inspades, and there's like this
guilt, like, I'm not doingholidays, quote unquote.
Or I'm not doing, you know, andI'm, I'm, because she was like,
grandma's house is magical.
And then she comes to our houseand she's like, well this is
shit.

(48:36):
Um, and so it's like I'm, I'mnot giving this to my kid.
'cause that's how it was when wewere growing up too.
And, and I can't give her that.
And, I don't know.
It's just one of those thingsthat's like, I don't, at the end
of the day, I just do not havethe energy to put out
decorations

Jamie (48:50):
Buy her one of those like little Christmas trees, but get
it in like a color.
Like her favorite color, likewhether it's like pink or blue
or silver or black and like thatcan be part of it.
Maybe that's just it.
Maybe she just has that treethat she can change.
'cause they have, they haveseasonal ornaments for like
every season for Christmastrees, like little ones.

Rebecca (49:11):
Is true.

Jamie (49:12):
I love this idea.
I'm excited about it.

Rebecca (49:14):
I'm too,

Jamie (49:15):
like, I'm so glad I'm like, I'm excited about it, but
I'm not gonna be there for it,apparently.
Yeah.
Marina said thrift store, craftstore for decorations.
Yeah, that's a really good

Rebecca (49:24):
oh yeah.
That's Smart.

Jamie (49:25):
I don't think I've really found good holiday decorations
at the thrift store, but I guessthey do put them out around that
time.
So maybe I'm just not lookingaround that time.
Welcome in Rob Bebe.

Rebecca (49:38):
Home Goods.
I'm sure there's somethinghideous at

Jamie (49:40):
Oh my God.
Since I got laid off, I've beendying to go to Home Goods and I
still, my bad.
I told you that's the firstthing my mom said to me when I
was like, I got laid off today.
My mom was like, when are yougoing to home Goods?
Like, when are you gonna goshopping?
cause it's like the stressshopping things are going wrong.
So we go spend money and feelbetter about ourselves.

Rebecca (50:02):
The other thing I wanted to talk about with like
the, I can't even, is theexpectation that you have to
show up to work and act likeeverything is fine and everyone
else around you is acting likeeveryone is fine and everything
is fine.
Like, I remember the day theyoverturned Roe versus Wade and I
had to go to a meeting andeveryone was like, and I had
just finished bawling my eyesout and I had to just be like,

(50:24):
okay, here we're meeting and youmen you mentioned moral injury.
And

Jamie (50:30):
yeah.

Rebecca (50:31):
that's a huge part of it.
like next week I have to go towork and pretend that they
didn't just pass the most fuckedup piece of legislation I've
ever seen in such a long time.
Um, I have to go to work andpretend they didn't say
something about alligatorAlcatraz.
Like, I have to pretend this,which.
crazy to me.
It makes me feel crazy anddepressed as fuck.

(50:52):
And, uh, I don't know.
That's, that does not help whenthat does not help when you're
in the hole and you're trying toget out of it

Jamie (51:00):
it doesn't at all.

Rebecca (51:01):
cause you're already trying to be normal-ish, but
then having to be normal-isharound other people is

Jamie (51:07):
Yeah.

Rebecca (51:08):
rushed.

Jamie (51:09):
Shook all this shit has shook me deeply too.
Yeah, there's, there's just so Ifeel like it's been nonstop,
definitely from before for sure,but like since the pandemic,
it's been just awful.
And I think, I think that's whyit's like so much more important
for managers to be good managersbecause I.

(51:34):
I don't know, it's not manymanagers that I would feel
comfortable with.
Literally like none.
Maybe like one in my careerwhere I would feel comfortable
saying like, I need a mentalhealth day or this.
Like I can't, I actually think,because I had a woman boss at

(51:54):
the time for Roe v.
Wade, I'm pretty sure that likewe got in a meeting and she
could just see it on all of ourfaces.
'cause it was like, I think itwas like two men and like 20
women, 15 women, something likethat.
And she was like, you know what,let's call it a day.
It was like one, and she waslike, let's call it a day.

(52:15):
We all have a lot on our minds.
And I'm like, yes.
Like first of all, like thathardly ever happens where your
boss is like, we're gonna callit a half day or go please go
home.
but even just being, I.

Rebecca (52:27):
remember when January 6th happened?
Remember when January 6thhappened?
We were just like, are we gonnago act like, are we going to,
are we gonna meetings and stuff?
Like, are we just gonna pretendlike nothing happened and just
say, how are you doing?
And be like, so good.

Jamie (52:44):
Yeah.
Well, I think, yeah, like I wishI had better advice for
navigating that, like in theworkplace.
'cause like that is such aproblem.
But again, like this doesn'tnecessarily help, but it's
likely a guaranteed, honestly,that you're not the only one
feeling that way because of thefucking fucked up world right

(53:06):
now.
and so like everybody's showingup and they're like, Ugh.
I.

Rebecca (53:10):
When Trump was elected again, there was a message that
went out on Slack, to all likethe upper management that was
like, people are probably gonnabe having a really hard time
today.
And like, if they need to takethe day, let them take the day.
I've never seen that in myentire fucking life.
Never ever.
And it was like, okay.
Although I do have to say we hada meeting the next day and we

(53:33):
all got on the meeting and wespent half an hour showing each
other our dogs.
That was the entire meeting.
And then one of the guys hadlike a dog with a dress up box
and he showed us all of heroutfits

Jamie (53:46):
A dress up box.

Rebecca (53:48):
and it was just like, we're not gonna pretend this is
normal, but we all need to feelsomething, so let's just show
each other dogs.

Jamie (53:56):
Oh my

Rebecca (53:56):
And that was it.
That was the meeting.
Just, yeah.
yeah.
I

Jamie (54:00):
I love that so

Rebecca (54:01):
It was nice to not have to pretend.
It was just nice not to have tobe like none of us could.
and again, I know we internalizea lot of it and it's like it's a
moral failing, but more and moreit's just like, okay, there are
other people out there whosimply cannot as well.

Jamie (54:17):
Yeah.

Rebecca (54:18):
And here's the other thing.
One of the guys I worked with,someone was shitting on
something he did.
And then like, how, he didn't dosomething right.
And I was like, you know, hismom died, right?
Like his mom just died.

Jamie (54:29):
Did they know?

Rebecca (54:30):
And he was like, no.
He's like, oh.
I was like, yeah, but do youknow what

Jamie (54:34):
but it's also

Rebecca (54:34):
one thinks it, they're automatically thinking it's you
immoral failing.
It couldn't possibly be anythingelse.
And that's why people don't feelsafe or comfortable in the
workplace showing that thethings are affecting them.

Jamie (54:49):
Or talk, yeah.
Talking about the things.
Things that we're all taught.
To be ashamed of, you know whatI mean?
But like, we all do them or mostof us do them.
And it's like, but you should beashamed of that.
And it's like, actually, maybewe should all talk about it.
So, yeah.
Ugh, my friend.
What is this?
Oh, Rob.
Yeah.
That meme.
I'm gonna need that on thesoundboard.

(55:10):
They ask you how you're doingand you have to say you're fine,
but you're not fine.
my friends are definitely tiredof my going crazy over
everything happening in yourcountry now.
But I need them to understand itaffects us too eventually.
Yeah.

Rebecca (55:22):
Mm-hmm.

Jamie (55:22):
And Marina said, work got to the point for me when,
anytime during the one-on-ones,my manager would ask, how's it
going?
And I'd just say It's going andthen shut my mouth.

Rebecca (55:34):
I love, it's going, it's going is my favorite
answer.
It's going.

Jamie (55:37):
I would usually be like, I'm here.

Rebecca (55:41):
My favorite one is I'm reluctantly alive.
I reluctantly exist today.
That's ashes.
That one is my favorite.

Jamie (55:49):
I'm refusing to be complicit.

Rebecca (55:51):
Yeah.

Jamie (55:52):
Yeah.
I'm here for a dress up box.
Yes.

Rebecca (55:55):
giving yourself grace, knowing that other people are
out there feeling the same way

Jamie (56:00):
Yeah, like us.
yeah, no, appreciate all thesupport too.
And, uh, and everyone sharingtheir own stories of, trying to
get outta that hole and get ontop of things.
And it's just so much.
It is, this is a cliche, butit's so hard being an adult, you
guys.
I, I never could have imagined,Because all you want is to like

(56:23):
grow up.
So nobody has to tell you whatto do, but then you're telling
yourself what to do based onsociety's expectations.
and then shaming yourself forit.
Again, this is why we docoworking sessions in, uh,
discord.
So join the Discord and,

Rebecca (56:41):
that's true.

Jamie (56:42):
yeah.
'cause that does help sometimes.
Sometimes it doesn't.
Sometimes I'm like, I can't.
but yeah, music helps.

Rebecca (56:48):
Yeah, that's, that's the other thing.
Some like, I know me personally,I am not someone who turns to
people, like when I'm in thehole, it's like, I don't wanna
talk,

Jamie (56:56):
don't

Rebecca (56:56):
I don't wanna talk to anyone.
It's like, I can't, I just, Ican't,

Jamie (57:01):
I'm trying to be better about it because I think it
does, like it helps me and.
I know if like you're goingthrough shit, like I want you to
tell me and like talk to meabout it and like get it out.
Even if it's like, you know,nothing we can do about it.
sometimes we just gotta blab,but

Rebecca (57:17):
Vaguely.

Jamie (57:18):
Yeah.
Yeah.

Rebecca (57:20):
That's everything.
that was great.
Thank you for joining us.
and thank you for joining us inthe, the whole.

Jamie (57:28):
also, uh, we're not playing a game after stream
because yeah, I thanks vaguegestures.

Rebecca (57:37):
That, that's the thing.
It just, it feels disingenuous.

Jamie (57:40):
But then there's, playing the games where you're doing
your little chores and you'refeeling better about things.
Be a good thing and a bad

Rebecca (57:48):
Who was it who said that?
They pretend there's a camerawatching them, like an invisible
camera watching

Jamie (57:52):
don't know.

Rebecca (57:54):
And like, it's for, that's what forces them to do
work.
I talking

Jamie (57:58):
at home or you mean in a game?

Rebecca (58:00):
Yeah.
No, at home.
It's like, that's, it's the gameI play is that like I'm being
secretly recorded and that's howI do my work.

Jamie (58:07):
Yeah.

Rebecca (58:08):
so awful and mean to yourself.

Jamie (58:10):
cosmic.
Thank you guys.
Yeah, no, I'm glad.
I love, and also like hearingpeople, I remember Rebecca would
like.
her fridge and like send me apicture or something and like,
just like even seeing that,yeah.
Post pictures of like organizingpost pictures of your messes,
your befores, your afters, yourwhatever, and discord.

(58:30):
Like, share your shit guys.
I need to do that because I'mtrying to get my shit in order
and'cause it, it motivates me tolike hear that like talking to
somebody about it has motivatedthem to do this thing and like
them being motivated motivatesme.
And like seeing you accomplishsomething that like, looks so

(58:52):
great and like hearing aboutlike how great it makes you
feel, you know, to havecompleted that task like
motivates me.
I'm like, oh, maybe I can get inon that dopamine, serotonin.

Rebecca (59:04):
I don't know.
I don't have any of that.
I don't remember what it'scalled.
My

Jamie (59:08):
I control what I can control.
Sometimes that's just stayinghydrated.
Yes, it is.
Sometimes it's feed the cats,drink some water.
Try to eat.
Yeah.
The tours over here makingsweaters every week with the
fuck.

Rebecca (59:24):
I mean, yeah,

Jamie (59:26):
All right?

Rebecca (59:27):
the fucking president told people to run in his zigzag
from the alligators.

Jamie (59:31):
Yep.
I don't know how many more picsof the drink cart I can send.
Did you put it in BurnoutCollective?
'cause I don't think you did.
I don't think Rebecca's seen it.
For example,

Rebecca (59:40):
I

Jamie (59:40):
Rebecca would love to see the drink cart,

Rebecca (59:42):
Absolutely.
I would.

Jamie (59:44):
It's drinks for her partner.
She doesn't drink any of them,but she sets up now that she's a
woman of leisure, she organizeshis drinks.

Rebecca (59:52):
Nice.
I love

Jamie (59:53):
Torah has not seen a drink car.
See, get on that shit, marina.

Rebecca (59:56):
You know what though?
I will say one more thing beforewe go.
There might be something wheremaybe you just have your friend
clean your house because when Iwas at my friend's today, I
vacuumed all her rugs.
No problem.
Couldn't pay me enough money todo that motherfucking house.
I hate it, but hers, I was like,I don't know what it was.
Maybe it's just'cause it was, Idon't live there.
But maybe just have a friendcome over and help you even

(01:00:19):
though you're

Jamie (01:00:19):
That was an, yeah, that was another thing I was gonna
tell you too is like we talkedabout how, especially our
closest friends, or at leastmine, don't live near me,
really.
Like, I can't really do that.
Like I don't really have someonethat's super close that I can
just be like, Hey, come over.
Like,

Rebecca (01:00:37):
Commune living.
This is why again, we all needto be communists and live a
commune

Jamie (01:00:41):
yeah, communist and a commune

Rebecca (01:00:43):
or a sister, wife,

Jamie (01:00:44):
sister, wives and drink carts.
I was trying to make a title,

Rebecca (01:00:48):
thank you guys.

Jamie (01:00:49):
thank you

Rebecca (01:00:50):
No, it's fine.
Thank you guys for joining us.
We will see you next week.
please, again, even if you justneed to scream into the void,
our, we have our discord.
feel free to send us an email.
we don't have answers, but wecan at least empathize and be
there with each other.

Jamie (01:01:06):
yeah, uh, we don't have any guests scheduled for the
future yet.
We have reached out to a couple.
again, if you would like to be aguest or you know, someone who
you think would be perfect to bea guest on the Burnout
Collective, please email us,[e-mail].
And, yeah, thanks for beinghere, guys.

(01:01:27):
be nice to yourselves andhopefully everyone can kind of
have a relaxing weekend.
Maybe do one doom pile.

Rebecca (01:01:35):
America does not deserve a birthday though.

Jamie (01:01:37):
Oh no.
Fuck that.

Rebecca (01:01:38):
do not deserve.
We do not deserve a birthdayparty.
We're ground.
We're grounded.

Jamie (01:01:43):
but I know it means many people have the day off, an
extra day off, so enjoy theweekend.
It's been real Deuce is.

Rebecca (01:01:51):
See you guys next

Jamie (01:01:52):
Bye guys.
I think that went really well.
How do we do this?
Oh, you didn't make me cry.
I was just cause it, I like, Ireally didn't think, I didn't
feel in a place where I wasgonna Yeah, I know.
But I'm always surprised whenwe're like, the day of the show,
we're like, what are we gonnatalk about?
Let's talk about this, I guess.

(01:02:13):
And then we do it and Oh, okay.
Bye.
Oh, I'll talk Audacity.
That was funny.