February 4, 2025 • 43 mins
It's time for us to talk about everyone's favorite manipulative sitcom family: The Work Family. We'll give you tips on avoiding workplaces that mirror the most unhealthy family dynamics, dealing with companies that expect you to just drink the Kool-Aid (especially startups), and share our own personal stories. Plus, we talk about the importance of pay transparency and how to advocate for yourself when you need it most.
Have a suggestion for our next episode? A burnout story to share? Send us a text!
The Burnout Collective Podcast is hosted by Jamie Young and Rebecca McCracken. We’ve had every ounce of inspiration sucked out by years of startups and hustle culture, and we’re trying to reclaim our creativity. Join us and our guests as we explore how to restart and reenergize our brains. Every Thursday at 5pm PT, we stream live on twitch.tv/TheBurnoutCollective.
Join our Discord community: discord.gg/ZwBjbmVfAF
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Music track: Snap Your Fingers by Aylex
Source: https://freetouse.com/music
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
We just want you to know that this is not just a
podcast with two white womencomplaining.
I'm Jamie and I'm Rebecca.
Welcome to the Burnout.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Collective.
Your mother is even timepolicing us.
Okay, listen.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
Ihd'd the schedule okay.
So here we are.
So sorry we're late.
All the time police in chat cancalm down.
Thank you everybody for thesubs.
Lately too.
We had a little sub party theother night when we were playing
(00:42):
party animals as well.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
So thank you guys we were just saying earlier, we
still haven't put up a tree.
It just doesn't feel like theseason, and when we asked emily,
should we put up the tree, shewas like nah, you must turn the
lights on.
So that's where we're at.
Yeah, no one's in the mood andit's three days away.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
No, four days away please don't tell me that.
Yeah, I know I'm not going towant to do anything today, but
tomorrow it's on the otherimportant thing that I really
wanted to call out.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
So I've been buying illicit freeze-dried Skittles
online for several years now andthe sour ones and I just saw
today that Skittles has come outwith its own.
It has its own, like actualbranding.
Even tell me that I literallyfound out in the last 10 minutes
on target and they have sourand regular.
(01:37):
So Merry Christmas to us I know, this is not the thing I
thought you were like I've beenreally wanting to talk about
this.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
I thought this was discord.
I was like, yeah, this isserious and you're like sour
Skittles.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
All of these sensory seekers sour crunchy, fruity,
they're kind of insane Perfectand quality control, instead of
having to buy them from someMormon in Utah.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
Hey, listen those Mormons.
They really do a really goodjob of freeze-drying candy.
I appreciate it, I know, butthese are cheaper.
I'm going to sell out to theman instead of the Mormons.
When it's like the man versusMormons, like apparently we're
choosing the man, Any otherplans for the last end of the
(02:21):
week?
No, I just need to get my treeup and clean more.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
Did you get the cat's presents?
That's the important questionDo you get your cat's Christmas
present?
Speaker 1 (02:33):
I don't know if you know this, but I got laid off,
so I don't have a job right now.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Oh, actually that's a great segue, jamie.
If you go to our Discord, wecurrently have a job openings
channel on our discord becauseit's the season to not be
working and a couple of ourfriends have also unfortunately
been laid off, so we are postingany helpful positions that we
can find in there, things thatwe think might make a good fit
(02:59):
for the people we know are inthere, but that's just a place
to go to find jobs, essentiallycommiserate.
If you know of any openings ofyour company that aren't
necessarily listed, feel free tothrow them there please.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
We have so many people that have been laid off
um even just in the discord andalso like other friends of ours,
or well, the colleagues.
What?
Did your did your mom learn howto use?
I don't think she knows whatshe's doing, mom, mom, oh, my
gosh.
Mom, you started a hype train.
(03:33):
It's a lot.
Now they have her credit cardinfo.
Yeah, now it's easy.
Now it's easy for her to do it.
Merry christmas burnouts, merryChristmas.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
Burnouts 11.
Holy crap.
Thank you, Mrs Jamie's mom.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
That was very nice of you, very sweet, awesome.
Well, we're off to a reallygood start.
We're not even through ourbabbling intros yet.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
We also just wanted one more shout out.
With our Discord we have aco-working channel, chatty and
Quiet.
So a lot of us are having towork on our portfolios or our
resumes or anything like that.
So if you just, or even ifyou're just work working, you
have those two channels so youcan just kind of like
collectively hang out.
You just want some company, ifyou just need some distraction.
(04:16):
But the quiet one is also ifyou kind of want to do heads
down work, just so you kind offeel like you're not having to
do all this by yourself, becauseit can be super stressful and
isolating.
Yeah, and it helps a lot.
Oh, we do have a body doublingchannel too.
So if you need to do thingslike wrap gifts or put up your
(04:36):
tree or make a child-sized couchor clean parts of your house or
apartment, you can do that withcompany on the end and use the
Discord app on your phone.
So it's mobile.
We do have more announcementsbecause I forgot.
Congratulations to our friendAlyssa, who currently got a
full-time gig.
She will be joining us in thebeginning of January for our
(04:59):
first guest episode.
Yes, you can find her underEconomy Mythos.
She's the World Builders BookClub.
She streams every Friday, sothe first show of the new year
will be with Alyssa, which is soexciting.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
Yeah, it is really exciting.
It's going to be so great.
It's going to be nice to have aguest, because that is
something that we've beenwanting to do.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
I think there's one more thing I did want to bring
up before we start is that youasked a really interesting
question earlier this week ofare people going to come to the
show and just see it as twomiddle-class white bitches
bitching about the world?
I thought about it a lot and Iwanted to address it Lest anyone
get the wrong idea.
It really isn't just two whitegirls here to bitch.
(05:42):
It's more about us trying tobuild a community for other
people.
We just happen to have theplatform to do so, but it's
meant to really give people aplace to kind of go have these
conversations, not necessarilyfeel like they're struggling
through this by themselves, andespecially with all of what next
year holds.
(06:02):
Yeah, again, I think having acommunity is super important,
and so that's sort of my littlePSA is.
This is more community buildingfor us than it is just airing
our grievances.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
Well said, if people come in and watch us I think for
just a few minutes and eitherdon't know us or haven't watched
the show a lot, I think theycould get that idea.
And I was just editing some ofour show and I stopped it and I
was like Rebecca, did we justcome across as two privileged
white women complaining?
But yeah, it really is that.
(06:37):
The basis for this whole thingis not even the podcast.
The basis is literally ourDiscord, discord and community,
and so that's why we're soencouraging to like get
everybody in there, because weliterally are trying to help
each other find jobs, trying tohelp each other get that
creative spark back that you'velost, get back to doing art, get
(06:59):
back to streaming on twitch, orstart streaming on twitch for
the first time, because it'ssomething you've always wanted
to do, but you were scared andmaybe you don't know.
Well, we have a community andwe're here to help and we're
here to I don't know like wejust want to lift each other up.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
So yeah, I mean we don't.
We're not benefiting from thediscord in any way, shape or
form, except that it's no longerjust the two of us.
We now have like more peoplethat we can pull into our kind
of support network and we have alot of fun and we also play
games too.
So even if you're just a gamerand you're looking for people to
play games with, just beingaround these people is so
(07:39):
inspiring getting to see allthese really cool things that
other people are making anddoing and just putting out into
the world and being able toshare.
That is so.
I don't know.
You know I don't talk like this, but it is very nurturing,
nourishing for the soul.
I think that's.
Anyway, that's what that is.
(08:00):
I love this for you.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
you have to talk.
I'm gonna throw up a little bitmore.
Okay, come gain friendship.
Yeah, join the Discord only forpersonal gain.
If you're trying to find a job,do whatever you want.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
And it's not filled with middle class privileged
white ladies either, by the way,just in case anyone again just
to hammer home, that's not whatwe're doing.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
These are for the clips.
We just want you to know thatthis is not just a podcast with
two white women, white womencomplaining.
Sorry, we're privileged whitewomen, so let's get started
speaking of friendship.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
What are we talking about today?
Speaker 1 (08:42):
we're all just a family, we're just a family.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
We're like a family here.
We're like a family here.
How would I describe thisworkplace?
We work hard, we play hard,we're a bunch of go-getters and
we're like a family here.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
Oh God, I hate that.
Family means I don't get tohave PTO, doesn't it?
Speaker 2 (09:02):
That is correct, because family doesn't take time
off.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
We're always family.
Yeah, you don't take time offfrom your family.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
You're family forever .
Speaker 1 (09:12):
If they're your family, you have to love them
and give all of your time tothem.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
Just like your family .
The majority of them areunmedicated and untherapized and
essentially feral so andmanipulative.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
Because they're like manipulative, right, they're
putting that idea in your head,they're just dropping that in
there.
And then you're like, oh, it'sa family, yeah, people are nice,
it's a family.
And then you're like I reallyshould go home and eat and rest.
But you know what we're like afamily and I'm gonna stay here
and I'm gonna help out my familyuntil nine o'clock at night.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
Okay, this is like one of those no shit things, but
so one of the signs of cults islike deprivation from sleep,
from food, from outside activity, from conversation, like there
are multiple signs that thingsare a cult and what you just
said was like most of it.
Oh my God.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
We're like a cult here.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
We're like a cult here.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
Drink the Kool-Aid.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
That's how it is, especially at startups right,
and it's not drink the Kool-Aid,it's.
We have a keg in the kitchen,yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
We also have foosball and a pool table and air hockey
.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
All you need is right here.
I worked for a company thatwould bring in breakfast and
lunch, so you didn't have toleave the company.
You had to stay right there andget all of your meals there.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
I used to work for a company like on Venice Beach and
we had like our own personalchef who was a personal chef to
the stars and I can't rememberwho in particular, but it was
somebody very famous and I wouldalways convince him to make me
really fun vegan stuff becausetypically they didn't have a lot
(10:56):
of options so that was 20minutes in and we have the first
.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
You have the vegan counter vegan.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
Okay, I think it's out of my system.
Okay, it's gone, and so they.
So we had that for lunch, butmy favorite was dinner.
Typically people would leavelike at five, sometimes four,
but they would very convenientlyhave dinner delivered.
Sometimes they'd get like thaior sandwiches or something, but
(11:26):
it was usually pizza and itwould be delivered at 7pm.
If you stay and work, you canget some free pizza, and then
are you really even having topay for any meals?
No, just stay here.
We have really comfy couches onthe second floor.
Why don't you sleep here?
Speaker 2 (11:46):
It's Venice Beach pizza, though.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
So no, it was good pizza.
It wasn't like from VeniceBeach, no please.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
I worked with a girl who took that literally and so
during lunch she would goupstairs to one of our couches
and would just take naps.
She would just be whole assnapping on a couch in front of
God and everyone.
I love that Middle of the day.
Wait, who is this?
One of the girls I worked withat this startup and I love that.
(12:17):
Honestly, it was super ballsy.
She did get fired because themen did not enjoy seeing a woman
relaxed in any way, shape orform.
I really admire her guts.
That took guts to just nap.
That took some moxie Placesthat have showers, gyms and
showers Worked for a couple ofthose too.
So again, you don't ever needto leave your house.
(12:39):
You can work out and take a bathhere.
It's so weird I don't want toknow my co-workers are anywhere
naked near me at all no, that'sno.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
I, I think I blocked this out.
So at the same place, here wego.
We had showers.
I forgot we had one or two inone of the back bathrooms,
because the tech bros would getup at five in the morning and go
surfing on Venice Beach.
Then they would walk straightto the office and they would
(13:12):
shower and get cleaned up andget dressed for work.
Together oh, I'm pretty surenot together.
It was like a single shower, Ithink, in a bathroom.
Okay, good, because this I meanstill bad, but good.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
Yeah, one of the other places brought in a guy to
give us flu shots, so youdidn't even need to go to the
doctor, they were just going togive you flu shots in the office
.
Have you ever been in aninterview where they're just
they pull that shit and you'relike red flag?
Speaker 1 (13:46):
Or are you just like I'll just deal with it?
I'm guilty of saying that, butI always say it with the caveat.
I hate saying this, but we arelike a family.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
I have to say the people like who are under you
and who you've managed I knowyou've mentioned before that
they are like actual family,just kind of the bonds you've
built, yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
It's like people I've taken with me places and we've
taken each other to differentcompanies.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
The bond that you formed has been trauma-based,
just like a family actually yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
So it is like a family.
That's how this episode's gonnaend, you guys.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
Spoiler alert it is like a family being a family
means there are no moreboundaries.
It is an erasure of boundariesand it crosses over into your
personal life, and so when yousay, hey, I'm not sick, they
feel comfortable asking well,with what that's it like that?
Yeah, yeah, actually, john, Ijust have diarrhea today and
(14:40):
mentally feel unwell, so that'swhy I'm not coming in.
Is that what you wanted to know?
No, I'm out sick, but it's justno boundaries.
It also means like you don't goon a honeymoon because you've
started working for a startupand you don't feel comfortable
taking a week off for yourfucking honeymoon, have you?
never, had a honeymoon.
No, oh my god, they think thatthey're entitled to your life.
(15:02):
You can also spot when peoplehave been there before.
So one of my direct reportsused to be like I'm gonna go for
lunch.
I was like you have to stoptelling me where you're going
and what you're doing.
I don't care, nor should I care.
Yeah, none of my business.
I don't give a shit.
Don't tell me, right.
But also it's a bad habit to bein because you're afraid you
have to account for every minuteof your time, because after
(15:23):
you've worked at a place likethis where, yeah, there's like a
crossover of professional andpersonal, you don't know how to
untangle that.
Yeah, I.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
I hate that so much.
If I want to disclose anypersonal information to you, I
will let you know.
Otherwise it's just I needtoday off or I need next week
off.
I have an appointment, that'sit.
Also, managers, this is just apet peeve of mine personally as
an introvert that I know we'vetalked about, but it's so
(15:57):
frustrating to me that everyFriday I would have managers be
like oh my God, what are youdoing this weekend?
Are you doing anything fun thisweekend?
Weekend?
Are you doing anything fun thisweekend?
No, susan.
No, I'm staying home.
I'm playing video games.
I might go out and do an errandor something, but otherwise I'm
(16:18):
just like I'm here and I'msleeping in and playing video
games.
So stop asking me what I'mdoing, because that's going to
be the answer every time.
And then I can see it in youreyes as you're judging me.
That's my answer every time.
And then when I come in onmonday, they would also ask what
did you do?
What did you do this weekend?
(16:38):
I'm like did we not just havethis fucking conversation like
three days ago, susan?
Speaker 2 (16:44):
nothing.
My meetings are so shortbecause I genuinely don't care.
I don't want to ask what you'redoing.
I don't want to know whatyou're doing.
I don't want to know whatyou're doing.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
I wouldn't always want to go to holiday parties
because I was trying to havelike healthy boundaries and live
(17:16):
my life not at work andliterally like the guilt and the
shame, and I know I think mostof it probably stems from a
place of oh, I want to see youand I've worked remote for so
long that it's.
I want to meet you face to face, which is great.
Don't make me feel guilty fornot wanting to go, and
especially it's like theholidays, so it's like the
busiest time of year.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
Most people are doing stuff with their families or
friends or found families and Ialso want to interject here and
say, especially if you're awoman, how the fuck do you think
holidays happen?
Men, we can't do stuff duringdecember, because that's when
that magic is happening andeverything that you enjoy the
last week of december.
That's what we've been doing,that's what we've been doing,
(17:59):
that's what we're doing there'sso many good dirty jokes in
there but we're not gonna dothat.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
Yeah, but yeah, in the interview process I do see
it as a red flag, but I think Ihave done what you've done, or
I've been like I'll just dealwith it, or sometimes it's even
like everything else seemed good.
Typically it's a red flag.
It's definitely something thatI look at as a red flag, but
that doesn't always mean ifsomebody says that I'm
automatically like nope, notgoing to get that job, because
(18:27):
typically when I'm looking for ajob I don't have one, and Like
nope, not going to get that jobBecause typically when I'm
looking for a job.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
I don't have one and I need one.
Yeah, so Okay.
So, just like families, theyput you in the fucking corner
and you can't get out of it,because you're financially
beholden to them and you'rereliant on them for Maslow's
hierarchy of needs in the formof your paycheck.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
And God forbid that you try to negotiate your offer,
the compensation, or your offerAsking for a raise, asking or
later asking for a raise, likedude asking for a raise with
family, with work families.
I had a manager that it was aman, it was indeed a man, so
(19:10):
anytime different compensationthings would come up, whether or
not, like I was being asked todo an entirely new job, or one
of my direct reports was askedto do an entirely new job with a
new title and a new gig and itwas a promotion and then trying
to go to bat for them to getthem a promotion and get them
the raise they deserve.
And my boss is just like whyare you asking for money?
(19:35):
You really should just workhard and earn it and then we'll
give you the money.
Show us that you can do the joband do the work and then we'll
compensate you for it.
Years later.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
You can't go to that sleepover until you show that we
can trust you.
It's that, yeah, sort ofmindset of 1000.
Actually, you really do need todo, you need to work for it and
show us that you deserve it.
It's that wounded, it's actingwounded, the professional wound,
oh yeah, no it's manipulation,it's all manipulation, that's
something we've talked about alot, especially when you go to
(20:13):
work for former co-workers whoare now your boss, who you did
think were like family, and thenyou realize the purchase is bad
, but we do have found familyoutside of all these works,
however, Outside of all theseworks.
Outside of all these jobs,outside of all these works,
outside of all these works,outside of all these jobs,
outside of all these works,outside of all these jobs.
So I've gathered my own littlegroup of people who I carry with
(20:35):
me just in my life that I'vegathered from all these
traumatic workplaces you're myperson.
It's you, it's you.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
Wow, really brought that down, huh we're not just
here complaining about shit, buthonestly it does.
It sucks.
And maybe there are, you know,some babies out there who don't
have a lot of experience in thejob market or they're just
starting their career.
Take a second look.
If anyone says to you, we'relike, we're really like a family
(21:08):
here, honestly like a pause,they do like dramatic pause
honestly the non-profit bosswhere she's.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
We just really need you to be dedicated to the
mission.
It's that really manipulativeconversation, like conversation
and that way of talking and alsothe ways that family
communicate unhealthy familiescommunicate with that sort of
passive aggressive.
We don't talk about problems.
It prevents healthycommunication and healthy
conflict in the workplace.
(21:35):
So you just have a simmeringpot of rage underneath the
surface and they're fine knowingthat.
They've continued to not letyou get that out there because
well, they've controlled you.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
They're like they controlled you.
He's not gonna do anythingright because we've manipulated
her hard enough.
We've beaten her down.
I felt like that a lot.
There were a lot of times,especially early on in my career
, but even a little later, whereI did feel comfortable standing
up for myself and I sure ashell felt comfortable standing
up for my team or my co-workers.
(22:08):
But yeah, there have been timeswhere I was like this isn't
right and I need to tell themthat.
But I've been.
I've felt so like pressured andbeaten down and like belittled
that and manipulated that.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
I feel like I can't say anything and I didn't
because they turn it around onyou, they, they act like it's a
personal affront to them insteadof so.
One of the best pieces ofadvice I'd ever got was like a
communication in the workplaceideally is it is about work.
It is not personal.
It's about work.
It's about helping you do yourjob better.
Except with this whole we're afamily thing they turn it into
(22:46):
we take this personally, it's apersonal attack on us.
It's not about how to run thebusiness better.
That sort of unhealthy familialdynamic just kind of pours over
into non-communication in theworkplace and they encourage it
and it thrives.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
It really does and that's just the like one toxic
person, that's like atleadership level.
It just slowly still snowballsinto an incredibly large
framework, large, just a groupof people that are toxic and
that makes the extremely toxicwork environment where people
(23:27):
feel like they can't speak upand they can't ask for what they
deserve, and it truly is that.
And this is where you know likepay disparity comes in yes, oh,
that's the other thing.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
It's not illegal to talk about your pay, guys.
If they ever tell you it is,you can't talk about your pay.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
And you should.
I liked to go around liketesting people out to see if
they wanted to exchange whatthey get paid.
If anyone asked me, like atwork, I would tell unless it's
someone I don't really know butI would tell them on my team and
I think it's like my way ofsecretly, like trying to do my
own version of transparentsalary formula, but it's just
(24:11):
transparent, like within my teamand like the people that I talk
to but they discourage it andthey triangulate workers again
in a really unhealthy familialdynamic.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
It just echoes the way that unhealthy families are
like, triangulating and pittingworkers against each other.
And because if you cometogether and you discuss, then
oh no, someone's going to holdthem accountable for their
behavior.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
And there's always the person that's so traumatized
they don't even know whathappened to them when, like,
you'll have a meeting and it'llturn into either, you know,
maybe a bitch fest, or peopletalking about pay things that
like you're not supposed to talkabout, which you can maybe a
bitch fest.
Or people talking about paythings that like you're not
supposed to talk about, whichyou can.
You absolutely can.
You can tell anyone you wanthow much you get paid.
(24:56):
And then someone's in thatmeeting and they're like that
wasn't right, they shouldn'thave done that.
So then they like, go tattle.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
And it's who hurt you that you're tattling a man
Never more tattling people thanadults at the workplace.
A bunch of tattling ass peopleAt, like big companies.
Speaker 1 (25:17):
This is insane Tattles.
If bosses post propagandaforbidding discussion of pay,
that is grounds for a lawsuit.
Yeah, it's illegal.
They can't do that.
Also, if you live in one of thestates where they have to
disclose pay in a jobdescription Like California Like
California, or if it's a remotejob and it is open to people in
(25:39):
California or New York andwherever else has it, they
legally have to put the payrange in there A pay range for
the role.
Speaker 2 (25:49):
I'm shocked at the amount of hr people who don't
know labor laws.
Kind of like when your family,who have never been to therapy
or understand boundaries.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
Oh my god, it's true man, this comparison just keeps
getting better, because I feellike we were like yeah, we can
talk about this and we canreally compare it to a family,
but it just keeps getting betterand better and also just like a
family.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
There's always a creepy uncle who will probably
touch you at some point at theworkplace.
That's very like family here.
The good and the bad, yeah, no,the amount of people who don't
know labor laws.
And again, people justcontinuing to exist in this
world without knowing this andjust going about and
(26:35):
everything's fine, and even whensomeone comes to them and says,
hey, it's illegal, well, maybeget a slap on the wrist.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
Well, maybe get a slap on the wrist and it's
whatever and it's.
You would rather do somethingillegal.
That's crazy to me is that youwould rather do something that
is illegal than tell someone howmuch a role pays, which is like
the single most important factthey want to know for the job
(27:01):
when you ask in an interview,how much it is, and then they're
like well, I mean, what do youmake now another?
Speaker 2 (27:06):
Another tip, ladies and gentlemen, ladies especially
, they're not allowed to ask youthat, yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
Yeah, don't tell them .
I know it's hard and it can beso awkward and it'll take
practice.
But if I'm not ready to discussthat, actually if anyone asks
what you were paid, or if they,or even if they say which this
isn't illegal.
But even if they say which thisisn't illegal, but even if they
say what are you thinking forthis role, Don't tell them or do
what some people do and givethem a just ridiculously high
(27:37):
number.
But I would not give themanything.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
I do have to shout out the last HR person I dealt
with who was going to ask mewhat are you thinking of the pay
range?
And then I was just silent.
And then she said a number thatwas way, way higher than my
number and I was like, didn't doany of this I was supposed to.
I was just a money pig and wentokay, that sounds yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
So I really fucked that up yeah, that's another
thing is always negotiate.
Don't ever take the first offer, because no one I listen
podcast at burnout collectivedot com.
Email us if this is you or youhave a story, but I have never
heard of anyone saying I triedto negotiate my offer
compensation and they decidednot to give me the job.
(28:24):
That doesn't happen.
Yeah, should ask.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
Oh God, we don't go there because we get
satisfaction from the work.
We go there because we have tolive in a place and eat food.
Oh my God, just like a family.
We're doing the best we could.
Ok, we're doing the best.
We knew how.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
All right, I'm your father, you should just love me,
just love me.
Don't ask how much yourallowance is going to be every
week.
Come on.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
C-suite is a toxic dad, hr is the enabling toxic
mom.
And, by the way, I have nottold my parents about this
podcast, so I'm going to throwthem right under the bus here.
One of the things I think we'vealluded to is that I was raised
in a super strict household,very religious, and one of the
things that was held over myhead was money.
(29:11):
So we will stop paying for yourcollege if X, y and Z.
There was always the threat ofwe will take away something that
you actually need to get aheadin the world if you don't comply
.
And there's sort of that samefear that falls into companies
where there's like a wealthdisparity, where they have
(29:32):
something that you need, akayour fucking paycheck, and
there's a fear that if you askfor more, they're like I mean we
could take all that away.
Is that what you want?
And it's really okay.
It's fine.
Yes, that strings attached.
Trauma has me fucked up with myfamily and it rolls over into
(29:53):
the workplace.
Speaker 1 (29:54):
Yep, and people a hundred percent take advantage
of it yeah, it's terrible andthat's why it's just this
endless cycle of trauma, Likeyou're literally being
(30:17):
traumatized over and over whenpeople are making you like I
know you like doubled my work orwhatever, but maybe you could
just give me, if you could justgive me $2,000 more, like just
for 2,000, please.
And they're like you work thisrole.
Listen, we gave you the, wegave you responsibility, you
know.
Yeah.
Oh my God, it's responsibility,no, but this is a new role that
(30:39):
we made for you and, yeah, godit's responsibility.
This is a new role that we madefor you and, yeah, you earned
those how many times have youhad that pulled on you?
Speaker 2 (30:45):
Because I can think of at least two.
I've had a brand new role,quote made for just you.
Speaker 1 (30:50):
Yeah, it's made for just you.
It doesn't pay anymore.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
God damn it.
Speaker 1 (30:55):
Merry Christmas everyone.
Speaker 2 (30:59):
But the trauma continues.
So I my boss way back broughtup, like hey, I'm planning to
promote you.
I never brought it up againbecause I knew for sure in my
heart that if I brought it up itwould turn into a situation,
not because I get those vibes,but just because that's how it's
(31:20):
been everywhere else.
I bring it up, they'll thinkI'm just talking about money and
you know I won't earn it orwhatever, which is deeply unfair
to him.
There is no way.
He did not make it seem likethat, but that's just sort of
the alert response.
So when I actually promoted Icried on the phone call because
(31:42):
I was not expecting it at all.
Speaker 1 (31:43):
And then you cried on the phone with me, I think two
other times that week, within afew days.
Speaker 2 (31:50):
Yes, but because it was like, and he was like and
here's more money I didn't haveto earn my way into it.
They just yes, yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:59):
That happened happened.
That happened with me too at myuh, one of my recent jobs,
where I got a promotion but Iwasn't actually doing the work
of the role until a couple weekslater because there was like a
transition or like whatever.
And so let's say that I wasstarting this new position on
(32:19):
January 1st but they told me,like December 2nd or something
like that, they would have madeit.
They made it go into effectright away.
All the time.
And that was my moment of oh,oh, you're giving me like back
back pay, like the promotion,and the money starts in like
(32:41):
weeks before I'm actually doingthe job.
Yes, yeah, yeah, of course.
Yeah, we're promoting you, wewant you to have that
immediately.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
And I was like, oh my god because and again, just
like families, that way thatyou're feeling is the same way I
feel when someone's oh my god,I love my dad so much, like.
What do you mean?
He's just like my best friendand we get along and I just love
hanging out with him.
What do you mean?
That's not how it goes.
(33:08):
So similar with the businessstuff.
Oh, that's how it's supposed togo.
I was not aware that the peopledid this.
Yeah, yeah, our therapists aregoing to be so proud of us next
week so tell me, what did youunpack at the podcast last week
(33:28):
last?
weekend.
I have one more way.
It's like a family.
Yeah, shitty christmas gift ohgod, like that weird thing you
get from your grandmother alsorolls over to my boss getting me
two star wars prints that hefound on etsy because I had
mentioned ones that I had seenthem.
(33:50):
He was like she will enjoy this.
I mean that's gonna be cool youstill?
Have them.
I was so angry.
I'm so angry because the answerwas more money and I got
fucking star wars prints frometsy robert, who, god, I love so
much.
Speaker 1 (34:06):
He took them to michael's and paid so much money
to get them professionallyframed well, now you have to
take a picture of these andwe'll add it to the disc I
didn't tell them how much Ihated them, and so for christmas
he got them professionallyframed and I opened those like
oh, he wrapped them for you.
I, rob, I love you.
That's good.
She doesn't need a honeymoon.
That was enough.
Speaker 2 (34:26):
That was perfect this is so great wait, he didn't do
it ironically oh, I know, it wasso nice.
The other bad gift was again,instead of more money, same boss
who got me stories prints alsogot me a coach purse oh, I
(34:47):
remember that actually I know,and it's getting very weird.
It was very weird because, yeah,I was like you could have just
a.
You could have just A.
You could have just given methis money.
B, no, c, yeah, e Like.
Purses are very personal andsome of us don't like that, or
(35:08):
want it, or need it, or feeluncomfortable with a bag that
has its own bag.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
You know, when, like men have like assistants at work
and they're like that's exactlythe and they're like that's
exactly the secretary andthey're like, hey, I don't know
what to get my wife for ouranniversary to the secretary,
they're like what should I gether?
You know that's what it is, butI think it's the opposite.
It's I'm supposed to get giftsfor these women that I work with
(35:36):
.
They're like asking their wifeshe's I don't know.
I mean, I want a coach purse.
Speaker 2 (35:41):
And again just give me money, please, just give the
money.
Just give the money.
Don't buy a shit.
Grandma Also boss, just yeah,do not buy me Star Wars prints.
Speaker 1 (35:54):
Just money.
We'll take the money, Moneyplease.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
Money.
Speaker 1 (35:59):
Sponsor us.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
Yes, so money sponsor us.
Yes, so write a check.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
Sponsored by money.
Honestly, this has felt like Ifeel relieved, it's felt really
good to talk about it and get itout and like even just warn
people that might not know.
I mean, I'm sure all of us know.
But, like I said, there aresome people that are like new to
their careers and you know, Ididn't know all this when I
started.
And those are the times when Ijust shut my mouth because we're
(36:26):
a family here and comes back toalways ask questions and
seriously, always negotiate.
I negotiate severance.
They lay me off, they fire me.
I negotiate severance.
You guys Like, in my opinion, Iguess there is a chance
something can happen, but in myopinion, you negotiate it and
(36:48):
the worst that can happen isthey just say, no, it's this,
take it or leave it.
That's true.
The best that can happen isthey really surprise you and
they give you a ton more money,your job back Please.
That's far too much to ask.
Once you're out of the family,you're out of the family for
good.
They want to remove yourbylines.
Speaker 2 (37:10):
I'm just kidding I'm not, but elisa just put have you
learned how to self-advocate,and again in a family?
That's something that's notencouraged at all, and so you
have to learn it as an adult ifyou grow up in a type of
environment where that's notencouraged at all, and so you
have to learn it as an adult ifyou grow up in a type of
environment where that?
Speaker 1 (37:24):
was not encouraged.
I think it's something wealways talk about, like it just
seems to always come up.
Speaker 2 (37:31):
The last thought I had was all the things that I'm
doing as a fairly, this is thelargest team I've ever managed,
I think, so still new to that.
And I'm thinking of all thethings like I try to do and none
of them encourage them to becloser to me in any way, shape
or form or make them feelobligated to me or like they owe
me.
(37:51):
Yeah, and I think that's thedifference, because, again, bad
family does that Toxic familydoes, does that?
Toxic workplaces who say we arelike a family.
They make you feel obligated tothem and like you owe them.
And the biggest thing you couldever do as a manager is go.
If you want to find somewhereor if you find somewhere else, I
(38:13):
will 100% support you intomoving on to your next place.
I just want you to be happy.
I support you whatever youdecide to do.
Speaker 1 (38:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:22):
That's it.
Speaker 1 (38:23):
That's all.
Like I hope for, too is I tryto be a good manager and all I
hope is that if anyone were toever and I don't need to hear it
but if anyone were to ever asksomebody who I managed oh, did
you like having her as a manager?
Because I was thinking about,like, getting this role and it
would be under her, like.
All I hope is that they say, oh, yes, do it Like Jamie's a
(38:46):
great manager.
That's all I want.
And I don't know, is that weird, is that?
I mean, that's not why I triedto get a good manager, but I
think that's all I can ask for.
Is that?
Or even if they're just like,yeah, she's good, like she's not
a shitty manager.
It's just like she's not ashitty manager.
I think I would even take that,because the standard the bar is
(39:08):
so low.
It's so low.
The bar is in hell.
Our point is that typically, youtrauma bond with the people you
work with and you become yourown little family.
So it's like just how blooddoesn't have to be your family.
You can have your own foundfamily for everything else.
(39:30):
I think we have our own foundfamily for work, except it's
made up of people that we don'twork with anymore.
We both worked together andhere we are and we're so close
and, like Alyssa, like we workedwith Alyssa and we're so close
and we've just built this littlefound family.
(39:51):
Out of all the trauma bondingwe did, man, there really is
just nothing like trauma bonding, huh yeah, and you?
Speaker 2 (39:58):
those are the people that you can find within your
like co-working space that youcan go.
My diarrhea is so bad today Icannot go to this.
Speaker 1 (40:06):
And if you can get that while you're working there,
that's like perfect.
But sometimes it happens after,because sometimes people are
too afraid to talk about it,depending on, like how toxic the
situation is.
So sometimes, like you get laidoff and then you're all like,
oh, let's start this chatoutside of work and start
talking and like exchange phonenumbers, and then you find out
that everyone else was goingthrough the same thing as you.
(40:28):
You were all just too scared totalk about it.
Speaker 2 (40:30):
That's like getting your IRL siblings together and
oh my God, Doing the cousin walkat Thanksgiving, that's when
that all that shit comes out.
Yeah, we compare notes.
Speaker 1 (40:45):
And investing in those bonds rather than
competing to get ahead.
That's another thing.
Is that's part of the toxicculture?
Is they're like?
We're like a family, but thenyou know, stephanie, or whoever
treats it like a competition andis just there to, I mean you
mean stephanie the tattle bitchwho tattles, yeah stephanie the
(41:08):
tattle bitch.
You find your family built up ofthose people and I think that's
awesome.
I am so thankful for my foundwork family.
Still to me it's like my littleintrovert army.
And then alissa, who we callthe introvert whisperer the
extrovert who's an introvertwhisperer?
The emotional support extrovertyeah, yes toxic families also
(41:32):
pit sibling.
Speaker 2 (41:33):
Yeah, they 100, triangulate the siblings.
It's like when my sister and I,at 39 and 36, finally start
becoming friends after we'vecome wait, just now.
I mean the past couple of years, yeah, like we weren't really.
We weren't really close beforethat yeah and I think a lot of
it would be parent, my parentsbeing like, oh well, just
(41:54):
talking shit, pitting youagainst each other, because they
don't want you to talk, becausethey know, if you talk, that
you will rise up.
That's how unions are formed,janie, and that's how a union is
born union my siblings and Iformed a union, again against my
parents, oh god yeah, I justwanted to thank everyone again,
(42:19):
yeah thank everybody for thankseverybody for coming.
Speaker 1 (42:23):
I hope you all get a coach purse.
Oh, and thank you to everybodyfor the subs and the gifted subs
.
I know we already said that,but it really means you, Mrs
Jamie Palm and Manic andeveryone else Like I don't.
Yeah, no matter what you give,we really appreciate it and we
love this.
We love doing this.
(42:44):
So we will catch you all nextweek.
Have a good holiday or season.
We're doing the mom thing.
We're long goodbyes.
I know I do long goodbyes,Whether I'm trying listen, I'm
trying to wrap this up with anice little fucking bow.
So if you could just let me dothis, I'm trying to say we hope
(43:06):
you have a good holiday withyour family, whether that's your
found family or your family.
The long goodbye, I'm so goodat it.
All right, the BurnoutCollective is hosted by me,
Jamie Young and me.
Speaker 2 (43:22):
Rebecca McCracken.
You can find all our episodesplus show notes at
burnoutcollectivecom.
Speaker 1 (43:27):
Follow the Discord link on our website to join the
burnout community.
You can also find us on TikTokand Instagram.
Speaker 2 (43:34):
If you're interested in being a guest on a future
episode or have questions orfeedback, you can email us at
podcast at burnoutcollectivecom.
We just want you to know that this is not just a
podcast with two white womencomplaining.
I'm Jamie and I'm Rebecca.
Welcome to the Burnout.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Collective.
Your mother is even timepolicing us.
Okay, listen.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
Ihd'd the schedule okay.
So here we are.
So sorry we're late.
All the time police in chat cancalm down.
Thank you everybody for thesubs.
Lately too.
We had a little sub party theother night when we were playing
(00:42):
party animals as well.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
So thank you guys we were just saying earlier, we
still haven't put up a tree.
It just doesn't feel like theseason, and when we asked emily,
should we put up the tree, shewas like nah, you must turn the
lights on.
So that's where we're at.
Yeah, no one's in the mood andit's three days away.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
No, four days away please don't tell me that.
Yeah, I know I'm not going towant to do anything today, but
tomorrow it's on the otherimportant thing that I really
wanted to call out.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
So I've been buying illicit freeze-dried Skittles
online for several years now andthe sour ones and I just saw
today that Skittles has come outwith its own.
It has its own, like actualbranding.
Even tell me that I literallyfound out in the last 10 minutes
on target and they have sourand regular.
(01:37):
So Merry Christmas to us I know, this is not the thing I
thought you were like I've beenreally wanting to talk about
this.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
I thought this was discord.
I was like, yeah, this isserious and you're like sour
Skittles.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
All of these sensory seekers sour crunchy, fruity,
they're kind of insane Perfectand quality control, instead of
having to buy them from someMormon in Utah.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
Hey, listen those Mormons.
They really do a really goodjob of freeze-drying candy.
I appreciate it, I know, butthese are cheaper.
I'm going to sell out to theman instead of the Mormons.
When it's like the man versusMormons, like apparently we're
choosing the man, Any otherplans for the last end of the
(02:21):
week?
No, I just need to get my treeup and clean more.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
Did you get the cat's presents?
That's the important questionDo you get your cat's Christmas
present?
Speaker 1 (02:33):
I don't know if you know this, but I got laid off,
so I don't have a job right now.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Oh, actually that's a great segue, jamie.
If you go to our Discord, wecurrently have a job openings
channel on our discord becauseit's the season to not be
working and a couple of ourfriends have also unfortunately
been laid off, so we are postingany helpful positions that we
can find in there, things thatwe think might make a good fit
(02:59):
for the people we know are inthere, but that's just a place
to go to find jobs, essentiallycommiserate.
If you know of any openings ofyour company that aren't
necessarily listed, feel free tothrow them there please.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
We have so many people that have been laid off
um even just in the discord andalso like other friends of ours,
or well, the colleagues.
What?
Did your did your mom learn howto use?
I don't think she knows whatshe's doing, mom, mom, oh, my
gosh.
Mom, you started a hype train.
(03:33):
It's a lot.
Now they have her credit cardinfo.
Yeah, now it's easy.
Now it's easy for her to do it.
Merry christmas burnouts, merryChristmas.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
Burnouts 11.
Holy crap.
Thank you, Mrs Jamie's mom.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
That was very nice of you, very sweet, awesome.
Well, we're off to a reallygood start.
We're not even through ourbabbling intros yet.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
We also just wanted one more shout out.
With our Discord we have aco-working channel, chatty and
Quiet.
So a lot of us are having towork on our portfolios or our
resumes or anything like that.
So if you just, or even ifyou're just work working, you
have those two channels so youcan just kind of like
collectively hang out.
You just want some company, ifyou just need some distraction.
(04:16):
But the quiet one is also ifyou kind of want to do heads
down work, just so you kind offeel like you're not having to
do all this by yourself, becauseit can be super stressful and
isolating.
Yeah, and it helps a lot.
Oh, we do have a body doublingchannel too.
So if you need to do thingslike wrap gifts or put up your
(04:36):
tree or make a child-sized couchor clean parts of your house or
apartment, you can do that withcompany on the end and use the
Discord app on your phone.
So it's mobile.
We do have more announcementsbecause I forgot.
Congratulations to our friendAlyssa, who currently got a
full-time gig.
She will be joining us in thebeginning of January for our
(04:59):
first guest episode.
Yes, you can find her underEconomy Mythos.
She's the World Builders BookClub.
She streams every Friday, sothe first show of the new year
will be with Alyssa, which is soexciting.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
Yeah, it is really exciting.
It's going to be so great.
It's going to be nice to have aguest, because that is
something that we've beenwanting to do.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
I think there's one more thing I did want to bring
up before we start is that youasked a really interesting
question earlier this week ofare people going to come to the
show and just see it as twomiddle-class white bitches
bitching about the world?
I thought about it a lot and Iwanted to address it Lest anyone
get the wrong idea.
It really isn't just two whitegirls here to bitch.
(05:42):
It's more about us trying tobuild a community for other
people.
We just happen to have theplatform to do so, but it's
meant to really give people aplace to kind of go have these
conversations, not necessarilyfeel like they're struggling
through this by themselves, andespecially with all of what next
year holds.
(06:02):
Yeah, again, I think having acommunity is super important,
and so that's sort of my littlePSA is.
This is more community buildingfor us than it is just airing
our grievances.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
Well said, if people come in and watch us I think for
just a few minutes and eitherdon't know us or haven't watched
the show a lot, I think theycould get that idea.
And I was just editing some ofour show and I stopped it and I
was like Rebecca, did we justcome across as two privileged
white women complaining?
But yeah, it really is that.
(06:37):
The basis for this whole thingis not even the podcast.
The basis is literally ourDiscord, discord and community,
and so that's why we're soencouraging to like get
everybody in there, because weliterally are trying to help
each other find jobs, trying tohelp each other get that
creative spark back that you'velost, get back to doing art, get
(06:59):
back to streaming on twitch, orstart streaming on twitch for
the first time, because it'ssomething you've always wanted
to do, but you were scared andmaybe you don't know.
Well, we have a community andwe're here to help and we're
here to I don't know like wejust want to lift each other up.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
So yeah, I mean we don't.
We're not benefiting from thediscord in any way, shape or
form, except that it's no longerjust the two of us.
We now have like more peoplethat we can pull into our kind
of support network and we have alot of fun and we also play
games too.
So even if you're just a gamerand you're looking for people to
play games with, just beingaround these people is so
(07:39):
inspiring getting to see allthese really cool things that
other people are making anddoing and just putting out into
the world and being able toshare.
That is so.
I don't know.
You know I don't talk like this, but it is very nurturing,
nourishing for the soul.
I think that's.
Anyway, that's what that is.
(08:00):
I love this for you.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
you have to talk.
I'm gonna throw up a little bitmore.
Okay, come gain friendship.
Yeah, join the Discord only forpersonal gain.
If you're trying to find a job,do whatever you want.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
And it's not filled with middle class privileged
white ladies either, by the way,just in case anyone again just
to hammer home, that's not whatwe're doing.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
These are for the clips.
We just want you to know thatthis is not just a podcast with
two white women, white womencomplaining.
Sorry, we're privileged whitewomen, so let's get started
speaking of friendship.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
What are we talking about today?
Speaker 1 (08:42):
we're all just a family, we're just a family.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
We're like a family here.
We're like a family here.
How would I describe thisworkplace?
We work hard, we play hard,we're a bunch of go-getters and
we're like a family here.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
Oh God, I hate that.
Family means I don't get tohave PTO, doesn't it?
Speaker 2 (09:02):
That is correct, because family doesn't take time
off.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
We're always family.
Yeah, you don't take time offfrom your family.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
You're family forever .
Speaker 1 (09:12):
If they're your family, you have to love them
and give all of your time tothem.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
Just like your family .
The majority of them areunmedicated and untherapized and
essentially feral so andmanipulative.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
Because they're like manipulative, right, they're
putting that idea in your head,they're just dropping that in
there.
And then you're like, oh, it'sa family, yeah, people are nice,
it's a family.
And then you're like I reallyshould go home and eat and rest.
But you know what we're like afamily and I'm gonna stay here
and I'm gonna help out my familyuntil nine o'clock at night.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
Okay, this is like one of those no shit things, but
so one of the signs of cults islike deprivation from sleep,
from food, from outside activity, from conversation, like there
are multiple signs that thingsare a cult and what you just
said was like most of it.
Oh my God.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
We're like a cult here.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
We're like a cult here.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
Drink the Kool-Aid.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
That's how it is, especially at startups right,
and it's not drink the Kool-Aid,it's.
We have a keg in the kitchen,yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
We also have foosball and a pool table and air hockey
.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
All you need is right here.
I worked for a company thatwould bring in breakfast and
lunch, so you didn't have toleave the company.
You had to stay right there andget all of your meals there.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
I used to work for a company like on Venice Beach and
we had like our own personalchef who was a personal chef to
the stars and I can't rememberwho in particular, but it was
somebody very famous and I wouldalways convince him to make me
really fun vegan stuff becausetypically they didn't have a lot
(10:56):
of options so that was 20minutes in and we have the first
.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
You have the vegan counter vegan.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
Okay, I think it's out of my system.
Okay, it's gone, and so they.
So we had that for lunch, butmy favorite was dinner.
Typically people would leavelike at five, sometimes four,
but they would very convenientlyhave dinner delivered.
Sometimes they'd get like thaior sandwiches or something, but
(11:26):
it was usually pizza and itwould be delivered at 7pm.
If you stay and work, you canget some free pizza, and then
are you really even having topay for any meals?
No, just stay here.
We have really comfy couches onthe second floor.
Why don't you sleep here?
Speaker 2 (11:46):
It's Venice Beach pizza, though.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
So no, it was good pizza.
It wasn't like from VeniceBeach, no please.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
I worked with a girl who took that literally and so
during lunch she would goupstairs to one of our couches
and would just take naps.
She would just be whole assnapping on a couch in front of
God and everyone.
I love that Middle of the day.
Wait, who is this?
One of the girls I worked withat this startup and I love that.
(12:17):
Honestly, it was super ballsy.
She did get fired because themen did not enjoy seeing a woman
relaxed in any way, shape orform.
I really admire her guts.
That took guts to just nap.
That took some moxie Placesthat have showers, gyms and
showers Worked for a couple ofthose too.
So again, you don't ever needto leave your house.
(12:39):
You can work out and take a bathhere.
It's so weird I don't want toknow my co-workers are anywhere
naked near me at all no, that'sno.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
I, I think I blocked this out.
So at the same place, here wego.
We had showers.
I forgot we had one or two inone of the back bathrooms,
because the tech bros would getup at five in the morning and go
surfing on Venice Beach.
Then they would walk straightto the office and they would
(13:12):
shower and get cleaned up andget dressed for work.
Together oh, I'm pretty surenot together.
It was like a single shower, Ithink, in a bathroom.
Okay, good, because this I meanstill bad, but good.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
Yeah, one of the other places brought in a guy to
give us flu shots, so youdidn't even need to go to the
doctor, they were just going togive you flu shots in the office
.
Have you ever been in aninterview where they're just
they pull that shit and you'relike red flag?
Speaker 1 (13:46):
Or are you just like I'll just deal with it?
I'm guilty of saying that, butI always say it with the caveat.
I hate saying this, but we arelike a family.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
I have to say the people like who are under you
and who you've managed I knowyou've mentioned before that
they are like actual family,just kind of the bonds you've
built, yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
It's like people I've taken with me places and we've
taken each other to differentcompanies.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
The bond that you formed has been trauma-based,
just like a family actually yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
So it is like a family.
That's how this episode's gonnaend, you guys.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
Spoiler alert it is like a family being a family
means there are no moreboundaries.
It is an erasure of boundariesand it crosses over into your
personal life, and so when yousay, hey, I'm not sick, they
feel comfortable asking well,with what that's it like that?
Yeah, yeah, actually, john, Ijust have diarrhea today and
(14:40):
mentally feel unwell, so that'swhy I'm not coming in.
Is that what you wanted to know?
No, I'm out sick, but it's justno boundaries.
It also means like you don't goon a honeymoon because you've
started working for a startupand you don't feel comfortable
taking a week off for yourfucking honeymoon, have you?
never, had a honeymoon.
No, oh my god, they think thatthey're entitled to your life.
(15:02):
You can also spot when peoplehave been there before.
So one of my direct reportsused to be like I'm gonna go for
lunch.
I was like you have to stoptelling me where you're going
and what you're doing.
I don't care, nor should I care.
Yeah, none of my business.
I don't give a shit.
Don't tell me, right.
But also it's a bad habit to bein because you're afraid you
have to account for every minuteof your time, because after
(15:23):
you've worked at a place likethis where, yeah, there's like a
crossover of professional andpersonal, you don't know how to
untangle that.
Yeah, I.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
I hate that so much.
If I want to disclose anypersonal information to you, I
will let you know.
Otherwise it's just I needtoday off or I need next week
off.
I have an appointment, that'sit.
Also, managers, this is just apet peeve of mine personally as
an introvert that I know we'vetalked about, but it's so
(15:57):
frustrating to me that everyFriday I would have managers be
like oh my God, what are youdoing this weekend?
Are you doing anything fun thisweekend?
Weekend?
Are you doing anything fun thisweekend?
No, susan.
No, I'm staying home.
I'm playing video games.
I might go out and do an errandor something, but otherwise I'm
(16:18):
just like I'm here and I'msleeping in and playing video
games.
So stop asking me what I'mdoing, because that's going to
be the answer every time.
And then I can see it in youreyes as you're judging me.
That's my answer every time.
And then when I come in onmonday, they would also ask what
did you do?
What did you do this weekend?
(16:38):
I'm like did we not just havethis fucking conversation like
three days ago, susan?
Speaker 2 (16:44):
nothing.
My meetings are so shortbecause I genuinely don't care.
I don't want to ask what you'redoing.
I don't want to know whatyou're doing.
I don't want to know whatyou're doing.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
I wouldn't always want to go to holiday parties
because I was trying to havelike healthy boundaries and live
(17:16):
my life not at work andliterally like the guilt and the
shame, and I know I think mostof it probably stems from a
place of oh, I want to see youand I've worked remote for so
long that it's.
I want to meet you face to face, which is great.
Don't make me feel guilty fornot wanting to go, and
especially it's like theholidays, so it's like the
busiest time of year.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
Most people are doing stuff with their families or
friends or found families and Ialso want to interject here and
say, especially if you're awoman, how the fuck do you think
holidays happen?
Men, we can't do stuff duringdecember, because that's when
that magic is happening andeverything that you enjoy the
last week of december.
That's what we've been doing,that's what we've been doing,
(17:59):
that's what we're doing there'sso many good dirty jokes in
there but we're not gonna dothat.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
Yeah, but yeah, in the interview process I do see
it as a red flag, but I think Ihave done what you've done, or
I've been like I'll just dealwith it, or sometimes it's even
like everything else seemed good.
Typically it's a red flag.
It's definitely something thatI look at as a red flag, but
that doesn't always mean ifsomebody says that I'm
automatically like nope, notgoing to get that job, because
(18:27):
typically when I'm looking for ajob I don't have one, and Like
nope, not going to get that jobBecause typically when I'm
looking for a job.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
I don't have one and I need one.
Yeah, so Okay.
So, just like families, theyput you in the fucking corner
and you can't get out of it,because you're financially
beholden to them and you'rereliant on them for Maslow's
hierarchy of needs in the formof your paycheck.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
And God forbid that you try to negotiate your offer,
the compensation, or your offerAsking for a raise, asking or
later asking for a raise, likedude asking for a raise with
family, with work families.
I had a manager that it was aman, it was indeed a man, so
(19:10):
anytime different compensationthings would come up, whether or
not, like I was being asked todo an entirely new job, or one
of my direct reports was askedto do an entirely new job with a
new title and a new gig and itwas a promotion and then trying
to go to bat for them to getthem a promotion and get them
the raise they deserve.
And my boss is just like whyare you asking for money?
(19:35):
You really should just workhard and earn it and then we'll
give you the money.
Show us that you can do the joband do the work and then we'll
compensate you for it.
Years later.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
You can't go to that sleepover until you show that we
can trust you.
It's that, yeah, sort ofmindset of 1000.
Actually, you really do need todo, you need to work for it and
show us that you deserve it.
It's that wounded, it's actingwounded, the professional wound,
oh yeah, no it's manipulation,it's all manipulation, that's
something we've talked about alot, especially when you go to
(20:13):
work for former co-workers whoare now your boss, who you did
think were like family, and thenyou realize the purchase is bad
, but we do have found familyoutside of all these works,
however, Outside of all theseworks.
Outside of all these jobs,outside of all these works,
outside of all these works,outside of all these jobs,
outside of all these works,outside of all these jobs.
So I've gathered my own littlegroup of people who I carry with
(20:35):
me just in my life that I'vegathered from all these
traumatic workplaces you're myperson.
It's you, it's you.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
Wow, really brought that down, huh we're not just
here complaining about shit, buthonestly it does.
It sucks.
And maybe there are, you know,some babies out there who don't
have a lot of experience in thejob market or they're just
starting their career.
Take a second look.
If anyone says to you, we'relike, we're really like a family
(21:08):
here, honestly like a pause,they do like dramatic pause
honestly the non-profit bosswhere she's.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
We just really need you to be dedicated to the
mission.
It's that really manipulativeconversation, like conversation
and that way of talking and alsothe ways that family
communicate unhealthy familiescommunicate with that sort of
passive aggressive.
We don't talk about problems.
It prevents healthycommunication and healthy
conflict in the workplace.
(21:35):
So you just have a simmeringpot of rage underneath the
surface and they're fine knowingthat.
They've continued to not letyou get that out there because
well, they've controlled you.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
They're like they controlled you.
He's not gonna do anythingright because we've manipulated
her hard enough.
We've beaten her down.
I felt like that a lot.
There were a lot of times,especially early on in my career
, but even a little later, whereI did feel comfortable standing
up for myself and I sure ashell felt comfortable standing
up for my team or my co-workers.
(22:08):
But yeah, there have been timeswhere I was like this isn't
right and I need to tell themthat.
But I've been.
I've felt so like pressured andbeaten down and like belittled
that and manipulated that.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
I feel like I can't say anything and I didn't
because they turn it around onyou, they, they act like it's a
personal affront to them insteadof so.
One of the best pieces ofadvice I'd ever got was like a
communication in the workplaceideally is it is about work.
It is not personal.
It's about work.
It's about helping you do yourjob better.
Except with this whole we're afamily thing they turn it into
(22:46):
we take this personally, it's apersonal attack on us.
It's not about how to run thebusiness better.
That sort of unhealthy familialdynamic just kind of pours over
into non-communication in theworkplace and they encourage it
and it thrives.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
It really does and that's just the like one toxic
person, that's like atleadership level.
It just slowly still snowballsinto an incredibly large
framework, large, just a groupof people that are toxic and
that makes the extremely toxicwork environment where people
(23:27):
feel like they can't speak upand they can't ask for what they
deserve, and it truly is that.
And this is where you know likepay disparity comes in yes, oh,
that's the other thing.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
It's not illegal to talk about your pay, guys.
If they ever tell you it is,you can't talk about your pay.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
And you should.
I liked to go around liketesting people out to see if
they wanted to exchange whatthey get paid.
If anyone asked me, like atwork, I would tell unless it's
someone I don't really know butI would tell them on my team and
I think it's like my way ofsecretly, like trying to do my
own version of transparentsalary formula, but it's just
(24:11):
transparent, like within my teamand like the people that I talk
to but they discourage it andthey triangulate workers again
in a really unhealthy familialdynamic.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
It just echoes the way that unhealthy families are
like, triangulating and pittingworkers against each other.
And because if you cometogether and you discuss, then
oh no, someone's going to holdthem accountable for their
behavior.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
And there's always the person that's so traumatized
they don't even know whathappened to them when, like,
you'll have a meeting and it'llturn into either, you know,
maybe a bitch fest, or peopletalking about pay things that
like you're not supposed to talkabout, which you can maybe a
bitch fest.
Or people talking about paythings that like you're not
supposed to talk about, whichyou can.
You absolutely can.
You can tell anyone you wanthow much you get paid.
(24:56):
And then someone's in thatmeeting and they're like that
wasn't right, they shouldn'thave done that.
So then they like, go tattle.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
And it's who hurt you that you're tattling a man
Never more tattling people thanadults at the workplace.
A bunch of tattling ass peopleAt, like big companies.
Speaker 1 (25:17):
This is insane Tattles.
If bosses post propagandaforbidding discussion of pay,
that is grounds for a lawsuit.
Yeah, it's illegal.
They can't do that.
Also, if you live in one of thestates where they have to
disclose pay in a jobdescription Like California Like
California, or if it's a remotejob and it is open to people in
(25:39):
California or New York andwherever else has it, they
legally have to put the payrange in there A pay range for
the role.
Speaker 2 (25:49):
I'm shocked at the amount of hr people who don't
know labor laws.
Kind of like when your family,who have never been to therapy
or understand boundaries.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
Oh my god, it's true man, this comparison just keeps
getting better, because I feellike we were like yeah, we can
talk about this and we canreally compare it to a family,
but it just keeps getting betterand better and also just like a
family.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
There's always a creepy uncle who will probably
touch you at some point at theworkplace.
That's very like family here.
The good and the bad, yeah, no,the amount of people who don't
know labor laws.
And again, people justcontinuing to exist in this
world without knowing this andjust going about and
(26:35):
everything's fine, and even whensomeone comes to them and says,
hey, it's illegal, well, maybeget a slap on the wrist.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
Well, maybe get a slap on the wrist and it's
whatever and it's.
You would rather do somethingillegal.
That's crazy to me is that youwould rather do something that
is illegal than tell someone howmuch a role pays, which is like
the single most important factthey want to know for the job
(27:01):
when you ask in an interview,how much it is, and then they're
like well, I mean, what do youmake now another?
Speaker 2 (27:06):
Another tip, ladies and gentlemen, ladies especially
, they're not allowed to ask youthat, yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
Yeah, don't tell them .
I know it's hard and it can beso awkward and it'll take
practice.
But if I'm not ready to discussthat, actually if anyone asks
what you were paid, or if they,or even if they say which this
isn't illegal.
But even if they say which thisisn't illegal, but even if they
say what are you thinking forthis role, Don't tell them or do
what some people do and givethem a just ridiculously high
(27:37):
number.
But I would not give themanything.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
I do have to shout out the last HR person I dealt
with who was going to ask mewhat are you thinking of the pay
range?
And then I was just silent.
And then she said a number thatwas way, way higher than my
number and I was like, didn't doany of this I was supposed to.
I was just a money pig and wentokay, that sounds yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
So I really fucked that up yeah, that's another
thing is always negotiate.
Don't ever take the first offer, because no one I listen
podcast at burnout collectivedot com.
Email us if this is you or youhave a story, but I have never
heard of anyone saying I triedto negotiate my offer
compensation and they decidednot to give me the job.
(28:24):
That doesn't happen.
Yeah, should ask.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
Oh God, we don't go there because we get
satisfaction from the work.
We go there because we have tolive in a place and eat food.
Oh my God, just like a family.
We're doing the best we could.
Ok, we're doing the best.
We knew how.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
All right, I'm your father, you should just love me,
just love me.
Don't ask how much yourallowance is going to be every
week.
Come on.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
C-suite is a toxic dad, hr is the enabling toxic
mom.
And, by the way, I have nottold my parents about this
podcast, so I'm going to throwthem right under the bus here.
One of the things I think we'vealluded to is that I was raised
in a super strict household,very religious, and one of the
things that was held over myhead was money.
(29:11):
So we will stop paying for yourcollege if X, y and Z.
There was always the threat ofwe will take away something that
you actually need to get aheadin the world if you don't comply
.
And there's sort of that samefear that falls into companies
where there's like a wealthdisparity, where they have
(29:32):
something that you need, akayour fucking paycheck, and
there's a fear that if you askfor more, they're like I mean we
could take all that away.
Is that what you want?
And it's really okay.
It's fine.
Yes, that strings attached.
Trauma has me fucked up with myfamily and it rolls over into
(29:53):
the workplace.
Speaker 1 (29:54):
Yep, and people a hundred percent take advantage
of it yeah, it's terrible andthat's why it's just this
endless cycle of trauma, Likeyou're literally being
(30:17):
traumatized over and over whenpeople are making you like I
know you like doubled my work orwhatever, but maybe you could
just give me, if you could justgive me $2,000 more, like just
for 2,000, please.
And they're like you work thisrole.
Listen, we gave you the, wegave you responsibility, you
know.
Yeah.
Oh my God, it's responsibility,no, but this is a new role that
(30:39):
we made for you and, yeah, godit's responsibility.
This is a new role that we madefor you and, yeah, you earned
those how many times have youhad that pulled on you?
Speaker 2 (30:45):
Because I can think of at least two.
I've had a brand new role,quote made for just you.
Speaker 1 (30:50):
Yeah, it's made for just you.
It doesn't pay anymore.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
God damn it.
Speaker 1 (30:55):
Merry Christmas everyone.
Speaker 2 (30:59):
But the trauma continues.
So I my boss way back broughtup, like hey, I'm planning to
promote you.
I never brought it up againbecause I knew for sure in my
heart that if I brought it up itwould turn into a situation,
not because I get those vibes,but just because that's how it's
(31:20):
been everywhere else.
I bring it up, they'll thinkI'm just talking about money and
you know I won't earn it orwhatever, which is deeply unfair
to him.
There is no way.
He did not make it seem likethat, but that's just sort of
the alert response.
So when I actually promoted Icried on the phone call because
(31:42):
I was not expecting it at all.
Speaker 1 (31:43):
And then you cried on the phone with me, I think two
other times that week, within afew days.
Speaker 2 (31:50):
Yes, but because it was like, and he was like and
here's more money I didn't haveto earn my way into it.
They just yes, yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:59):
That happened happened.
That happened with me too at myuh, one of my recent jobs,
where I got a promotion but Iwasn't actually doing the work
of the role until a couple weekslater because there was like a
transition or like whatever.
And so let's say that I wasstarting this new position on
(32:19):
January 1st but they told me,like December 2nd or something
like that, they would have madeit.
They made it go into effectright away.
All the time.
And that was my moment of oh,oh, you're giving me like back
back pay, like the promotion,and the money starts in like
(32:41):
weeks before I'm actually doingthe job.
Yes, yeah, yeah, of course.
Yeah, we're promoting you, wewant you to have that
immediately.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
And I was like, oh my god because and again, just
like families, that way thatyou're feeling is the same way I
feel when someone's oh my god,I love my dad so much, like.
What do you mean?
He's just like my best friendand we get along and I just love
hanging out with him.
What do you mean?
That's not how it goes.
(33:08):
So similar with the businessstuff.
Oh, that's how it's supposed togo.
I was not aware that the peopledid this.
Yeah, yeah, our therapists aregoing to be so proud of us next
week so tell me, what did youunpack at the podcast last week
(33:28):
last?
weekend.
I have one more way.
It's like a family.
Yeah, shitty christmas gift ohgod, like that weird thing you
get from your grandmother alsorolls over to my boss getting me
two star wars prints that hefound on etsy because I had
mentioned ones that I had seenthem.
(33:50):
He was like she will enjoy this.
I mean that's gonna be cool youstill?
Have them.
I was so angry.
I'm so angry because the answerwas more money and I got
fucking star wars prints frometsy robert, who, god, I love so
much.
Speaker 1 (34:06):
He took them to michael's and paid so much money
to get them professionallyframed well, now you have to
take a picture of these andwe'll add it to the disc I
didn't tell them how much Ihated them, and so for christmas
he got them professionallyframed and I opened those like
oh, he wrapped them for you.
I, rob, I love you.
That's good.
She doesn't need a honeymoon.
That was enough.
Speaker 2 (34:26):
That was perfect this is so great wait, he didn't do
it ironically oh, I know, it wasso nice.
The other bad gift was again,instead of more money, same boss
who got me stories prints alsogot me a coach purse oh, I
(34:47):
remember that actually I know,and it's getting very weird.
It was very weird because, yeah,I was like you could have just
a.
You could have just A.
You could have just given methis money.
B, no, c, yeah, e Like.
Purses are very personal andsome of us don't like that, or
(35:08):
want it, or need it, or feeluncomfortable with a bag that
has its own bag.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
You know, when, like men have like assistants at work
and they're like that's exactlythe and they're like that's
exactly the secretary andthey're like, hey, I don't know
what to get my wife for ouranniversary to the secretary,
they're like what should I gether?
You know that's what it is, butI think it's the opposite.
It's I'm supposed to get giftsfor these women that I work with
(35:36):
.
They're like asking their wifeshe's I don't know.
I mean, I want a coach purse.
Speaker 2 (35:41):
And again just give me money, please, just give the
money.
Just give the money.
Don't buy a shit.
Grandma Also boss, just yeah,do not buy me Star Wars prints.
Speaker 1 (35:54):
Just money.
We'll take the money, Moneyplease.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
Money.
Speaker 1 (35:59):
Sponsor us.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
Yes, so money sponsor us.
Yes, so write a check.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
Sponsored by money.
Honestly, this has felt like Ifeel relieved, it's felt really
good to talk about it and get itout and like even just warn
people that might not know.
I mean, I'm sure all of us know.
But, like I said, there aresome people that are like new to
their careers and you know, Ididn't know all this when I
started.
And those are the times when Ijust shut my mouth because we're
(36:26):
a family here and comes back toalways ask questions and
seriously, always negotiate.
I negotiate severance.
They lay me off, they fire me.
I negotiate severance.
You guys Like, in my opinion, Iguess there is a chance
something can happen, but in myopinion, you negotiate it and
(36:48):
the worst that can happen isthey just say, no, it's this,
take it or leave it.
That's true.
The best that can happen isthey really surprise you and
they give you a ton more money,your job back Please.
That's far too much to ask.
Once you're out of the family,you're out of the family for
good.
They want to remove yourbylines.
Speaker 2 (37:10):
I'm just kidding I'm not, but elisa just put have you
learned how to self-advocate,and again in a family?
That's something that's notencouraged at all, and so you
have to learn it as an adult ifyou grow up in a type of
environment where that's notencouraged at all, and so you
have to learn it as an adult ifyou grow up in a type of
environment where that?
Speaker 1 (37:24):
was not encouraged.
I think it's something wealways talk about, like it just
seems to always come up.
Speaker 2 (37:31):
The last thought I had was all the things that I'm
doing as a fairly, this is thelargest team I've ever managed,
I think, so still new to that.
And I'm thinking of all thethings like I try to do and none
of them encourage them to becloser to me in any way, shape
or form or make them feelobligated to me or like they owe
me.
(37:51):
Yeah, and I think that's thedifference, because, again, bad
family does that Toxic familydoes, does that?
Toxic workplaces who say we arelike a family.
They make you feel obligated tothem and like you owe them.
And the biggest thing you couldever do as a manager is go.
If you want to find somewhereor if you find somewhere else, I
(38:13):
will 100% support you intomoving on to your next place.
I just want you to be happy.
I support you whatever youdecide to do.
Speaker 1 (38:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:22):
That's it.
Speaker 1 (38:23):
That's all.
Like I hope for, too is I tryto be a good manager and all I
hope is that if anyone were toever and I don't need to hear it
but if anyone were to ever asksomebody who I managed oh, did
you like having her as a manager?
Because I was thinking about,like, getting this role and it
would be under her, like.
All I hope is that they say, oh, yes, do it Like Jamie's a
(38:46):
great manager.
That's all I want.
And I don't know, is that weird, is that?
I mean, that's not why I triedto get a good manager, but I
think that's all I can ask for.
Is that?
Or even if they're just like,yeah, she's good, like she's not
a shitty manager.
It's just like she's not ashitty manager.
I think I would even take that,because the standard the bar is
(39:08):
so low.
It's so low.
The bar is in hell.
Our point is that typically, youtrauma bond with the people you
work with and you become yourown little family.
So it's like just how blooddoesn't have to be your family.
You can have your own foundfamily for everything else.
(39:30):
I think we have our own foundfamily for work, except it's
made up of people that we don'twork with anymore.
We both worked together andhere we are and we're so close
and, like Alyssa, like we workedwith Alyssa and we're so close
and we've just built this littlefound family.
(39:51):
Out of all the trauma bondingwe did, man, there really is
just nothing like trauma bonding, huh yeah, and you?
Speaker 2 (39:58):
those are the people that you can find within your
like co-working space that youcan go.
My diarrhea is so bad today Icannot go to this.
Speaker 1 (40:06):
And if you can get that while you're working there,
that's like perfect.
But sometimes it happens after,because sometimes people are
too afraid to talk about it,depending on, like how toxic the
situation is.
So sometimes, like you get laidoff and then you're all like,
oh, let's start this chatoutside of work and start
talking and like exchange phonenumbers, and then you find out
that everyone else was goingthrough the same thing as you.
(40:28):
You were all just too scared totalk about it.
Speaker 2 (40:30):
That's like getting your IRL siblings together and
oh my God, Doing the cousin walkat Thanksgiving, that's when
that all that shit comes out.
Yeah, we compare notes.
Speaker 1 (40:45):
And investing in those bonds rather than
competing to get ahead.
That's another thing.
Is that's part of the toxicculture?
Is they're like?
We're like a family, but thenyou know, stephanie, or whoever
treats it like a competition andis just there to, I mean you
mean stephanie the tattle bitchwho tattles, yeah stephanie the
(41:08):
tattle bitch.
You find your family built up ofthose people and I think that's
awesome.
I am so thankful for my foundwork family.
Still to me it's like my littleintrovert army.
And then alissa, who we callthe introvert whisperer the
extrovert who's an introvertwhisperer?
The emotional support extrovertyeah, yes toxic families also
(41:32):
pit sibling.
Speaker 2 (41:33):
Yeah, they 100, triangulate the siblings.
It's like when my sister and I,at 39 and 36, finally start
becoming friends after we'vecome wait, just now.
I mean the past couple of years, yeah, like we weren't really.
We weren't really close beforethat yeah and I think a lot of
it would be parent, my parentsbeing like, oh well, just
(41:54):
talking shit, pitting youagainst each other, because they
don't want you to talk, becausethey know, if you talk, that
you will rise up.
That's how unions are formed,janie, and that's how a union is
born union my siblings and Iformed a union, again against my
parents, oh god yeah, I justwanted to thank everyone again,
(42:19):
yeah thank everybody for thankseverybody for coming.
Speaker 1 (42:23):
I hope you all get a coach purse.
Oh, and thank you to everybodyfor the subs and the gifted subs
.
I know we already said that,but it really means you, Mrs
Jamie Palm and Manic andeveryone else Like I don't.
Yeah, no matter what you give,we really appreciate it and we
love this.
We love doing this.
(42:44):
So we will catch you all nextweek.
Have a good holiday or season.
We're doing the mom thing.
We're long goodbyes.
I know I do long goodbyes,Whether I'm trying listen, I'm
trying to wrap this up with anice little fucking bow.
So if you could just let me dothis, I'm trying to say we hope
(43:06):
you have a good holiday withyour family, whether that's your
found family or your family.
The long goodbye, I'm so goodat it.
All right, the BurnoutCollective is hosted by me,
Jamie Young and me.
Speaker 2 (43:22):
Rebecca McCracken.
You can find all our episodesplus show notes at
burnoutcollectivecom.
Speaker 1 (43:27):
Follow the Discord link on our website to join the
burnout community.
You can also find us on TikTokand Instagram.
Speaker 2 (43:34):
If you're interested in being a guest on a future
episode or have questions orfeedback, you can email us at
podcast at burnoutcollectivecom.
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