February 25, 2025 • 58 mins
Well, Rebecca took a pain killer right before the show (that's where we're at). But this week, we're talking about dealing with chronic illnesses, both mental and physical, especially in the workplace. We discuss the struggle of working through pain in high-stress job hellscapes because we're sometimes afraid to take time off.
We also talk about the invisible illnesses others don't see and how it sucks to feel judged or second-guessed by others in your life when you're ill (managers, parents...even friends).
Plus, we've been dissociating with the new Hello Kitty game, and let us tell you: even the Sanrio Hello Kitties are burnt out on their pretend island (editor's note: Retsuko is, in fact, a red panda).
If you take anything away from this episode, let it be the reminder that you come first. Take that vacation. Pick up the paint brush. Take a mental health day. Set that boundary.
Mentioned in this episode:
- Hello Kitty Island Adventure game for Nintendo Switch
- 2022 work stress study: "Work stress and loss of years lived without chronic disease: an 18-year follow-up of 1.5 million employees in Denmark"
- The National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH) article on the early warning signs of job stress
Have a suggestion for our next episode? A burnout story to share? Send us a text!
The Burnout Collective Podcast is hosted by Jamie Young and Rebecca McCracken. We’ve had every ounce of inspiration sucked out by years of startups and hustle culture, and we’re trying to reclaim our creativity. Join us and our guests as we explore how to restart and reenergize our brains. Every Thursday at 5pm PT, we stream live on twitch.tv/TheBurnoutCollective.
Join our Discord community: discord.gg/ZwBjbmVfAF
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Music track: Snap Your Fingers by Aylex
Source: https://freetouse.com/music
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Full disclosure, it is a highpain day, and I may or may not
have taken a painkiller beforethis, and The painkiller.
My brain literally went, I went,Oh, I hope her Roomba and mop
fall in love like a fucking highperson.
Jamie (00:16):
I'm Jamie.
And I'm Rebecca.
Welcome to the BurnoutCollective.
Hey everybody.
Hello.
Hi, Rebecca.
Hi happy January part 27.
Oh my god It really is and Ifeel the longest january ever My
(00:37):
therapist is going on maternityleave and I got an email from
her yesterday being like, hey,did you want to continue with
another therapist?
I was like, ew.
No.
No, cause then I don't want tohave to tell someone all my shit
over and over again.
You're like, I'll wait.
And then I'll wait.
And also I don't want her tohave anyone to compare notes
with either.
Like, I just.
(00:58):
Don't want that.
Can you imagine the othertherapist, just like, her coming
back from an attorney leave, andlike, the other therapist being
like, Yeah, so Cindy, what thehell?
Yeah, so many things wrong herethat apparently you're not
addressing with her.
Like, I've had months to ease myand years, actually, to ease my
current one into it.
I I don't have three months forthis shit.
(01:20):
Yeah, that's that's really,like, the hardest part.
is finding a good therapist, andthen keeping a good therapist.
I don't even remember what shesaid, but I remember the day
that I was like sure that mytherapist was breaking up with
me, and I was like horrified.
Cause she said something.
Oh, it was literally justbecause she was gonna go on
(01:42):
vacation for like a coupleweeks.
And, and the way she started it.
Was very like, you know, I knowwe've been like doing this thing
for a long time and, and I wasjust like, oh no, and then I was
like, Oh my God, Cindy, I waslike, I thought you were
breaking up with me.
(02:02):
And she goes, Oh God, no.
And then she's like, okay, Irealized how that could have
sounded like that.
I'm like, yeah.
I guess we have a little bit of,a little bit of housekeeping.
Mhm.
Yeah, again, we are on yourpodcast feed.
So we are all caught up in thepodcast feeds, so all 12
episodes are now in there.
Go listen to them, go follow us,go rate us, five stars, and,
(02:27):
What this means now is that eachweek, so like today, we're
recording, we're live onThursdays, we're live today, and
then on Tuesday, this episode,the audio of this episode will
be in your podcast feed, theedited audio, and that's how it
will be going forward.
yeah.
(02:49):
That's what I got.
It's very exciting.
I'm excited.
Same.
the other big thing, please takea look on Sundays, Elyssa
Kirkham is doing the WorldBuilders Book Club, she's so
warm and wonderful and relatableand the books that she reads and
all the topics she talks aboutare super relevant to today and
(03:12):
personally, it's, it's nice tofind like a little bit of
kindness and someone doing goodIt's inspirational and it makes
you hopeful.
I guess.
Yeah, it is very hopeful andlike And it's good.
It's like it's it's I learned somuch from her like every time I
always call it my church So Ialways say like come come have
(03:35):
church with us on Sunday withElyssa It's 10 a.
m Pacific, I believe.
Yeah, 10am Pacific, Brave Saver.
Please go follow her, and try tocatch some of her streams,
because she's brilliant and she,she deserves more viewership
because I think what she's doingis Amazing.
(03:59):
And, I don't know, she's just,she's doing the work, you guys,
and more people should bebenefiting from this.
anyway, we just want to giveElyssa some love because she's,
she's awesome and she's doingsuch a great job and we just
want to make sure everybodyknows about her and everybody's
following her, and tuning inwhen they can.
(04:20):
Yeah, she's the best.
We also have, some upcomingguests.
tentatively for next week, ifall goes well, Madeline Shores
will be coming on.
Again, she is currentlyrecovering from a extremely
toxic workplace.
it'll be a nice kind of capperto what we're going to talk
about today as she's stilldealing with health fallout,
(04:42):
even though she no longer worksthere.
And then the week after that, islikely going to be Robin Sachs
Frankel, who is a good friend ofmine and ex co worker, we're
going to talk about somedifferent things with Robin, but
one of the main things is goingto be just being the person who
(05:02):
speaks up and speaks out in theworkplace when everyone around
you really isn't, and especiallydoing so as a woman, and then
after that.
It, again, tentatively, it willbe, Rachel Cannon, who is my
sister.
She went from working, inmuseums with an MFA in museum
studies, and she is now anworking as an electrician's
(05:24):
apprentice.
she joined a union, and one ofthe things that she deals with
on a day to day basis is workingin what is typically considered
a male dominated field, andhaving to deal with that
bullshit every day.
And dear listeners, we are goingto get so much dirt on Rebecca.
Joke's on you.
Thanks to trauma, she doesn'tremember shit from our
(05:44):
childhood.
That's terrible.
All right, that's it.
Let's get into it.
Episode 13.
We're here.
Fucking physical illnesses,chronic illnesses, dealing with
chronic illness in the workplaceand getting chronic illnesses
from being in the workplace.
We're gonna cover that.
Or even just getting sick in theworkplace.
(06:07):
God, yes.
full disclosure, I went into mywork profile, and you know how
they have like the voluntaryDEI, like if you have a
disability, you know, you canvolunteer that.
I was, I, nope, nope, nothing tosee here, nope, nope, nope,
nope, nope, just changed allthat.
There is nothing to see.
(06:27):
We have our own DEIs over here.
We're just gonna keep that as ano, just in case.
Even now, like, I always checkthe box.
That I have a disability when Iapply for jobs.
Do I need to not be doing thatanymore?
Correct.
You need to not be doing that.
You are fine and normal andhealthy.
I guess that's why.
(06:48):
I haven't been getting jobsy'all.
I don't, I don't have a job.
Yeah.
Because I, because I have mentaldisabilities.
And if they came to me and werelike, we noticed you changed it.
Like I was, I, I don't know.
I, my hand slipped.
It was the wrong thing.
Sorry.
I just, they can't prove it.
(07:08):
I don't work in an office.
That's insane.
there was a 18 year study inDenmark that followed around
working men and women, in whatis a surprise to absolutely no
one, high stress environmentscaused a significant higher rate
of people with chronicillnesses, and if they didn't
get a chronic illness, they diedearlier.
(07:30):
Yay.
As compared to people who didn'twork.
Something to look forward to.
The people who worked in a lowstress environment did not have
that happen to them.
18 years.
I've been working for 20.
Yep.
So that was, that was really,really scary.
And, again, surprise to no one.
the signs of feeling chronicallyill and feeling unhealthy in the
(07:54):
workplace.
let's go over these.
Headache, sleep disturbances,difficulty in concentrating,
short temper.
upset stomach, jobdissatisfaction, and low morale.
that's, that's every day ofeveryone's life.
Yeah.
Seriously.
And it's just.
That's, that's everybody.
And there's so few companies whoare actually, because there are
(08:17):
a lot of companies that do say,you know, we care about your
mental health and your physicalhealth.
And we want you, you know, weinsist that you take at least
two weeks off of vacation everyyear.
And.
Blah, blah, blah.
But companies that actually, Iguess, walk the talk, are very
(08:37):
few.
Very few.
Can you think of any?
You gave me that face, and I waslike I know, because I was like,
I knew what you were going tosay, and I'm like, I can't think
of any.
Maybe Costco.
I wanna, I wanna say that placethat we worked, that we met, but
I guess I can't.
I wouldn't.
I wouldn't.
I wouldn't.
(08:58):
I wouldn't.
I would disagree with that one.
I feel like, because a lot ofthat, you know, came from Kate,
our friend Kate, who is HRdirector.
Yes.
And so there were a lot ofinitiatives that, listen, they
would pay for me to get amassage once a month.
Completely pay for it.
that's true.
They did.
They did do that, didn't they?
(09:19):
You know, so that meant a lot tome because everywhere else I've
worked.
They have wellness stipends, butthey're like, but you can't
really use it for anything.
And really what they mean by youcan't use it for everything is
you can only use it for a gymmembership, like a physical gym
membership.
Oh, you want to do something onan app at home?
(09:40):
No.
We want you to go into a gym andget COVID.
Wait, wait.
Here's the insidious part.
They do that because the smallerthe employees are That no, but
really like you can meet it witha nutritionist.
So weight loss programs.
They also have a lot of thoseinitiatives because people who
weigh less they have lowerinsurance premiums.
(10:03):
So it's not for you, it's forthem.
Yay! Fatphobia.
They don't give a fuck aboutyou.
They just want you hungry andtiny and they want to pay less.
Yep.
God, that sounds miserable.
Right.
So that's the thing.
Those initiatives are a bottomline for them.
Yeah.
You could get hit by a bustomorrow.
(10:24):
They would have your job upbefore end of day.
Oh, yeah.
Oh god.
You could get, I don't know,gunned down in the street by a
hot Italian guy and they wouldreplace you.
Actually, they would have ameeting first and then address
it and then replace you.
This is reminding They do notcare.
This is reminding me of Iactually just recently started
(10:46):
watching Severance.
Did you watch Severance?
I just started season two.
I did too.
And oh my, is it wild.
But it's just reminding me, andI, like, I don't want to talk
about it because I don't want toruin it for people, but I just
had to say, if you're notwatching Severance, please watch
Severance.
Mm hmm.
I feel like we should do, like,maybe we should do a series at
(11:09):
some point, and even if it'slike an extra episode, like it's
not a podcast, but just ustalking about Severance.
I would do that.
Yeah.
I would 100% do that becauselike even if we do like a, I
don't know, like a watch partyor something, but yeah, I would
a hundred percent do that.
Insane.
Insane.
And another thing in, in the popculture today that made me think
(11:30):
of our podcast, little bit of atangent, so, I was playing Hello
Kitty Island Adventure, and atthe very start, you start on an
airplane.
And you're supposed to go aroundand, like, talk to everybody.
You talk to I guess Retsuko,who's like a little fox or
something.
And Retsuko's like She hasburnout.
Yeah, Retsuko's burnt out, dude.
And she's like, you go talk toher, you're like, oh, are you
(11:51):
excited to go on this islandadventure?
And like, she's like, oh my god,I really needed a break from
work, blah, blah, blah, blah,and I wish I had taken a
screenshot then, because I wasjust in awe.
But I took a screenshot of thenext one, which was Like I hope
that I can get to relax on thisvacation, but I keep thinking
about my boss and the workThat's probably piling up and I
(12:12):
was like, yeah, even even onlike Hello Kitty Island, dude
Like the Sanrio Hello Kittiesare burnt out.
She, so are you familiar withthe character, because she has
like her alternative side whenshe finally fucking snaps.
and not to um, actually, I thinkshe's a red panda.
But she like, she screams andyou can just like see flames and
(12:34):
she's raging.
And it's like, oh yeah, that's,that's, because she, someone
asked her to do one more fuckingthing and she loses her absolute
shit.
She's like, no.
so fun fact back to illnessesthat chronic burnout keeps your
immune system and keeps yournervous system in fight or
flight.
And that means that your immunesystem goes to shit and you get
(12:56):
sick more easily.
It takes longer for you torecover.
so it's just like this viciouscircle of hell.
yeah, When you have a chronicillness from work or if you have
a chronic illness before youwork You still have to go to
work doesn't matter if you cometo it with it or you get it from
working there You still have towork every day.
Yeah, and I think I think womenare already trained to do that,
(13:19):
just having to work with yourperiod.
So I think we're less likely totake the days off that we need
and we just end up pushingthrough which just makes things
worse.
Did we even talk about this whenwe were talking about this show?
I don't even think we talkedabout being on your period
because yes, I remember, andalso I remember being so
(13:41):
surprised that she let me, butin school, in like middle school
and high school.
Like, I had such bad cramps thatI was like, I can't even
function, so finally I was like,Mom, can I just, like, come
home, and she was like, Yeah.
Like, anytime it's, like, toobad, just ask to come home, you
can definitely come home.
(14:02):
And I remember being Sheprioritized you taking care of
your body?
That's crazy.
I know.
I know.
it doesn't happen often.
And no, I have not.
that's where it starts.
I've said that before in highschool and elementary school and
middle school.
That Perfect Attendance Award.
Oh, yeah.
They give it, they give it as anaward.
So kids learn that like, you're,you just have a little fever, go
(14:23):
to school.
That's where this starts.
Yeah.
Which is awful, because like,it's not only awful for the
person, which it is.
Miserable for, but it's alsoawful for others to see that as
like, Oh, this person's pushingthrough like at work.
Oh, this person's pushingthrough.
So like I should.
And then another side of thatis, and I've talked about the
(14:47):
same person before that I workedwith, who would always come to
work sick, and she would getother people sick.
Like, you're not, you're notgoing to get a prize for this.
Like, You don't, you don't get aprize for this.
But also, I feel like somecompanies make it seem like you
(15:09):
get a prize, or at least, maybenot a prize, but like, if, if,
If you're sick and you take offwhen you're sick, you're looked
down upon, right?
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
Or like, or like your manager,you know, is kind of like, Oh,
like, what do you have?
Like, they get comfortable withyou and they're like, Oh, what
do you have?
(15:30):
And it's just like, It's noneof, it's none of your business.
I should just, I should justsay, I'm not feeling well, I
can't come in and that's the endof it.
I, we had to put our cat tosleep and I had to take off for
a day and having to ask forthat, for a thing which I know
I'm going to be a wreck for andno good at work.
(15:52):
I felt so fucking weird anduncomfortable asking for that.
Like, he was like, it's just afucking cat.
I took a week off.
You know what I mean?
I took almost a whole week offwhen I had to put Punk to sleep.
I pushed through when mygrandfather died.
I was like, oh, just take oneday.
I should have taken a fullfucking week.
(16:16):
What a horrible example to setfor everyone who works under me.
Yeah.
What the fuck kind of managerdoes that make me?
you're a great manager, butyeah, I am always.
A bad example of taking care ofyourself.
You're, you're, you're a badexample of taking time off.
Which I'm always trying to getyou to do.
I know.
(16:38):
But I also understand becauseit's hard because there's a lot
of pressure and there's morepressure when you are a manager
because you're like, I want tobe here for these people and
like, and we're workingremotely.
So it's like, well, I'm sick,but you know, I'm not going to
get anyone else sick.
So it's okay.
No, it's not okay.
Take care of yourself.
You can work from bed.
You can work from bed.
(16:58):
And they're like, you can work.
No, but really.
And so you're like, well, Imean, I don't have to be sitting
up totally to work.
And it's like, but it's like,no, you should be resting and
not thinking about work and notdoing this other.
Yes.
I, I am very lucky to have a coeditor who is like, you're
(17:21):
taking time off soon, right?
Right?
I'm like, yes.
Yes, I am.
And she's a good example oflike, I'm taking my time.
Yeah.
I'm like, hell yeah you are.
there was one thing she couldn'tcome to and my boss was gonna
gripe about it.
I was like, ah, she's, no, thisis her time off.
She's, yeah, she's planned thisfor a while just because things
changed here doesn't mean thatshe should change her stuff at
(17:44):
all.
Like, she's not responsible forthat.
I've had unlimited vacation forquite a while now at different
jobs I've worked.
I've been lucky enough, enoughto have that.
And I know some people Wait,wait, wait.
Hold on.
That's another scam.
I know some people think thatit's worse when you get that
because you have unlimited.
(18:05):
So, then you're like, oh,whatever.
And then you end up not takingoff as much.
But, that's not the case withme.
they did studies, they didactual studies, and people take
actually less time off thanthat.
That's insane to me.
And also it's a scam.
I would never.
Because if they fire you, theydon't have to pay out vacation
for you.
do they still have to pay outvacation?
(18:26):
Is it, is that in every state?
thing, but.
Because I don't think they do.
No, Washington, they are notrequired to pay out vacation to
you at all.
Oh, okay.
Yeah, I was gonna say I don'tthink here either they have to.
But it's also been a long timefor me.
And if you don't accrue vacationhours, there's nothing to
fucking pay you.
I do take my time off for thatand I made sure, and again,
(18:50):
yeah, some companies, even withUnlimited, say, Hey, you have to
take off at least two weeks, orat least ten days, or something
like that, of vacation, becauseI think they saw these studies,
and at least were trying to, ifnot actually mean it, you know,
at least they were trying to saylike, Hey, we saw this, and we
(19:12):
want to make sure people aretaking off.
And it's just like, to me, it'slike, it's such a luxury, so why
would you not, I don't thinkthat I fully took advantage of
Unlimited Vacation until therewas a white man that I worked
with, and we had UnlimitedVacation, it was at maybe like
the second company I worked forwith Unlimited perhaps, and This
(19:36):
guy was like always off.
Like every time I turned around,this guy had like time off.
Sometimes it was just like aweekend, like an extra day or
two on a weekend.
Sometimes it was like threeweeks.
Sometimes it was a week, butlike every time I was like, how
is he taking time off again?
It just seemed like he wasalways taking time off.
And it was then that finally mybrain was like.
(19:59):
You have unlimited, take off.
It's basically just, and that'show I've always operated too, as
a manager.
you can take off whenever youwant, how much you want, I think
within, because I think there'sstill rules, you know, unlimited
vacation, but if it's more thanlike a month, or more than four
weeks, or three weeks, you haveto like, get an okay, but.
But then it's not unlimited.
(20:21):
Yeah, no, I know, I know.
but you also know that like, Iknow.
Someone like fucked that up foreverybody by being like, Oh,
it's unlimited.
Like this fucking guy.
I wanted to take, yeah, I wantedto take two months off to go
travel in Europe, you know, withmy fiancé.
As our like pre honeymoon.
Did you feel guilty taking offwhen that guy was out too?
(20:43):
Like if you were sick, were youlike, I I can't call out because
no one else will be here forthat.
I did at that time.
For sure, for sure.
And like, But all I do, and thisis kind of just like, my mantra
for, for all my roles lately,all my management roles or
leadership roles, is as long asmy direct reports are okay.
(21:06):
So I would, I would even like, Iwould have meetings with them,
like two weeks in advance of metaking off.
They would know that I wastaking off far in advance and
then I would meet with them andbe like, Okay, let's go over.
Is there anything you need fromme before?
So, like, the two weeks leadingup to it, it's like, If there's
anything urgent that I need totake care of before I'm gone for
(21:26):
two weeks or a week, like, tellme.
But then I would also just, evenmake them a plan sometimes.
So, cause like, I was off, Iwent to go see you, remember?
And I had, I was taking on a newrole, and I had new direct
reports.
And I wasn't gonna be there forthe, I, I thought about
canceling it, but I was like,No, I'm going, like, I'm going
(21:47):
to see Rebecca.
Like, that's not gonna happen.
with that whole thing, like ifthey, if it's that type of job
where you take off and it'slike, who's going to do this
job, that is not yourresponsibility that that company
did not adequately fulfill likethe needs of shit that needs,
like they did not adequatelyhire.
Oh yeah.
(22:08):
And this was like, this is likea role change that was very
unexpected because it happenedonly because of layoffs.
So it was out of the blue.
So like, I had already scheduledthis time off, but just, yeah, I
made, so like, because they werebrand new and there was like
some training that had to bedone, you know, with one of my
direct reports, I just kind ofmade her a little, like,
(22:28):
training one cheater and waslike, hey, do these, do these
edits and we'll talk about themwhen I get back.
Or, you know, Help the othereditor with this stuff and do
what she says, basically, butyeah, I just make sure that my
direct reports are okay.
Like everyone else that needsthings from me, like, you're
going to have to wait.
(22:50):
right.
What's the longest you've takenoff unexpectedly for being sick?
Oh, COVID.
When I got back from visitingyou.
I know.
didn't I take off three weeks?
You were really sick.
I was really sick.
So it was my first time gettingCOVID.
You took off a whole week.
Yeah.
(23:10):
because I think it was abouttwo, or about three weeks.
It ended up, so I took off aweek, and then I wasn't better,
and I was like, should I just goback?
And I was like, no.
So I took off the second week,and then the third week, I feel
like I was feeling better thethird week, and I just felt like
(23:30):
I might as well, I was like, Imight as well just like take the
extra time, just because Iwasn't a hundred, but I know
Even when I went back afterthree weeks, I wasn't 100, so,
it was good.
And some of that, honestly, Iprobably, I probably took that
third week because of burnout,too.
Because, like, on top of it, Iwas already super burnt out.
(23:52):
so, yeah.
So three weeks.
That's pretty good.
Yeah.
I, I was, I want to say a week,except that's not true.
I had, like, pneumonia,pneumonia.
Not like the fun walking kindlike actual pneumonia and I had
my laptop at home And I just wassitting with pneumonia in bed
(24:15):
fucking working.
So That's not even a week.
And didn't you too, didn't youhave like a, a surgery as well
and then that was a whole thing?
Oh, that's right.
I had a surgery and then I hadan unexpected follow up surgery
that I had to have immediatelyafter, and was calling my boss
crying, going, I have to go tothe hospital, right now.
(24:37):
I'm so sorry.
I'm apologizing for being rushedto the hospital.
Yep.
Something sounds like you gettaken care of like you.
Mm hmm.
I'll try to get back to work bytomorrow This was I could slap
you.
I did slap you so many times.
I could slap me I would slap me.
A whole ass surgery that I hadto be put to sleep for, I was
(24:59):
gonna show up back up to work.
I, oh my god, my gallbladderburst.
I, I said, I remember sending myboss like a picture of my
hospital bracelet to prove like,hey, I actually am really,
really, really fucking sickbecause I was afraid they
weren't going to believe me.
That's dumb.
When I went into labor, when Iwent into labor, I'd be like,
hey guys, I, I felt guilty forall of these Wasn't that
(25:22):
planned, though?
I'm apologizing for Like No.
No.
She was in emergency C section.
Oh, that's right.
Sorry.
I mean, in labor.
Yeah.
She was, like, almost two monthsearly, so Yeah.
I'm apologizing for having anemergency baby.
What the fuck is wrong with us?
I don't know, man.
I think, I think I was doinggreat with the whole taking time
(25:44):
off when I needed it.
But like, but that took me along time and it took me seeing
a lot of, a lot of different, alot of different people maybe
abusing the system of unlimitedtime off a little bit, I think,
for me to be like Oh my god,yes.
I should take time off.
And, and the thing is, what dowe tell our direct reports?
(26:07):
Yes, any time you need it,please take off.
If you're sick, if you have acold, please take off.
Like, don't do that to yourself.
No.
That's right.
So I got those, those hives.
Oh, that was your hives?
Yeah.
What was that?
I think it was like Chris, wasit Christmas of 2020 or
(26:27):
Christmas of 2021?
I think it was the worst year.
I think it was 2020.
But you, you also were the oneto tell me that's what was
happening to me.
Do you remember that?
I remember that phone call soclearly.
Do you remember that at all?
I was streaming the ending ofFran Bow and as I was streaming
my hands were kind of likeswollen And I was like, that's
really weird, but I was justlike, all right, just streaming
(26:50):
I'm just gonna do this and justcontemplate this game And it was
the allergic reaction.
Yeah, it was the well being.
Yeah.
Yeah, that was fucking scary Itwas like insane I didn't know
what happened and then Iremember I called you like after
and I was like dude the weirdestthing I was Like and honestly
like my scalp itches a littlebit and I don't know why but
like whatever You And then Ithink what happened was, I took
(27:11):
a shower.
I was like, maybe there's likesomething from like clothes I
was wearing or something.
So I like took a shower and Iget out of the shower and it
wasn't a lot at first, but I hadthese like red patches and I've
honestly, I had never had hivesbefore.
Like I have allergies, but notlike usually like skin
allergies.
so I was like, Like, is thishives, like, I guess?
So then I told you, I was like,I think I have hives.
(27:33):
It was just a little bit.
And you were, of course, doingyour Google fu, and you were
like, da da da da da.
And you were, like, looking up abunch of things.
And then all of a sudden, it wasquiet, and you go, you go, Oh my
God, Jamie.
And, like, whenever you go,Jamie, or whenever I get a text
that's just my name in all caps,you know, like, I know it's bad.
You're like, Oh my God, Jamie.
And I'm like, What?
(27:54):
And then you start reading thissentence to me from this, like,
study and it's like 0.
00001 percent of Wellbutrinusers, and I had been on it for
over a month, which is thething, so it didn't occur to
either of us.
That it would be from thatbecause I had already been on it
for so long.
Yeah, it was like over a monthAnd you were like have late
(28:15):
onset anaphylaxis and allergicreactions.
Yeah Like oh great, and then itgot so it was my entire body was
covered in hives Like, it wasinsane.
They were on the bottoms of myfeet.
They were in places I don't evenwant to talk about.
It was literally all over myhead and my scalp.
I think I have a picture.
(28:36):
But did you go to work?
Did you go to work the next day?
You did not.
I did not go to work.
So, this was actually over Thiswas over like a holiday break.
So I think I was just trying togive you credit.
No, I know, I know, I know.
I do remember thinking, however,like, I could be taking this
time off, you know?
but we're already off forholiday break.
(28:56):
And so like, that's how I spentmy like, pandemic Christmas,
which was already miserable.
Yeah.
Even more miserable.
But, yeah.
Here's what kills me.
When Emily had to go to thehospital, not once was I like,
Hey work, sorry.
I was like, fuck you guys.
You'll hear from me when youhear from me.
Not once was I like apologeticor like, I'll try to get in.
(29:19):
I was like, I don't care howlong this fucking takes.
I will quit this job.
But when it's for yourself andyou just get sicker.
Yeah.
I just have to teach you theways, Rebecca.
I'm slowly trying to get you to,you, you did take more days off,
right?
Don't you take like I'vescheduled them.
Yes, because you're always likeyou and so instead of me getting
(29:41):
to that point where I'm like I'mgoing to kill myself for
everyone.
I've scheduled at least once amonth Either a full day or a
half day What does this half daybullshit first?
You're not doing it, right?
no, those are the days We havethe editor happy hour and that's
the good stuff and I don't wantto miss that.
So I think that's where thegossip The truth comes out so
(30:03):
I've started scheduling them outso I don't get to the point of
snapping, which you encouragedme to do, and you were 100
percent right on that one,Listen, she told me she didn't
want to talk about it, but um,Rebecca and her family have to
put Their cat's asleep onSaturday, and that's very sad.
Yep, it is.
(30:23):
But we're not talking about it.
Yep, we can talk about it.
I'm not, I'm, I, but I did takeoff because I know I'm not going
to be in my right, in like theright frame of mind.
And before I would have justhonestly tried to schedule it
and power through.
Yeah.
And I didn't this time.
So I am, there is growth.
How does like, I want you totalk a little bit about like,
(30:44):
your husband, like, is he goodabout taking time off when he's
not well?
No, absolutely the fuck not.
No, he's terrible at it.
We're both terrible at it.
We will just be like, I feellike shit.
I know, but he also works inlike a high stress job.
He's IT, he's in one of thosejobs where it's like, if
something breaks, it breaks fora very expensive company.
(31:06):
so I'm just like, you should.
Take time off, which you're not,he's like, no, it's fine.
But he's like, I work remote.
He feels guilty too.
And the job market is so bad.
He's worried he's going to getlaid off or like.
Replaced.
That's miserable.
It's, I know, it's, it's scary.
That, especially, is scary,like, if you are in a bad job
(31:26):
market and you're sick, you'relike, I'm gonna show up because
they're trying to decide who tolay off.
Gosh, I wish Elyssa was here cuzElyssa was like, doing.
Oh, sorry.
I forgot I can ask you aquestion.
You can hear me.
Elyssa, when you were In thatwhole will they or won't they
with the layoff thing, werethere days where you're like, I
probably shouldn't take off?
(31:46):
Did you feel like they wouldnotice and maybe hold that
against you in the end?
Because I, I know myself and Iwould.
Or like, did you, did you havedays that you worked two hours
some days?
See, that's how you do it,Rebecca.
That's how you do it.
That's amazing.
That's so good.
But that's like, You are aninspiration.
(32:07):
Yeah.
Cause I mean, I think thatcrossed my mind when I had COVID
and was taking off because I waslike, Oh, this is so long and I
can't believe I have COVID.
They just did all these layoffsand I have this role change.
But it was like, I think at thatpoint I was just like, I'm just
going to take it off.
(32:27):
They laid me off.
Yeah.
So be it.
That's a good thought.
Elyssa was like, I already knewthat the decisions were made by
that point.
Okay, so Elyssa has a healthier,relationship with her body in
time off.
Good job.
Good job, Elyssa.
Yeah.
Back to like chronic illnesses,when you get one or if you have
(32:48):
one, or if one flares up in ahigh stress, toxic job.
It still follows you, even ifyou get a new fucking job, and
you like this job better, andthis job is better.
It's still there.
You may not have as many flareups, but it's still there, and
so now you're fucked.
Yeah.
(33:08):
And even though, like, maybeyou're in a healthier, better
place, and maybe The new companythat isn't a shitshow, is a
little more caring andunderstanding about these
things, so maybe you have moretime off, or you have a, you
know, I don't know, a stipendthat you can use for something
(33:29):
that really helps with thisthing that maybe you couldn't
afford otherwise, really.
It's still there and it's stillgonna affect you.
Like, it's not gonna go away.
Yeah.
You have to find that person whoyou work with, who you trust
enough to be like, Hey, I'm sicktoday.
Or like, Hey, I've got a flareand I'm gonna be in the
bathroom.
I can't make this meeting, butyou can text from the bathroom.
(33:51):
Like, that's if you don't have aWorkplace where you can do that
and both I've had both it'sawful It's awful when you're
just trying to hide it and getby and you don't have anyone you
can really confide it becauseyou know If you say anything to
hold it against you It'sinvaluable being at a workplace
where you can be sick and havesomeone who understands and can
(34:14):
at least like And even if that'sjust, like, your HR person,
like, that's probably, like,Because hell.
Watch the HR person be like,yeah, I also have IBS.
I'm sure that happens.
Like, I'm sure that has, hasthat ever happened to you?
You've probably never gone to HRwith that.
Oh, are you fucking kidding?
No, the only time I had to go toHR was when it was at that
(34:35):
really bad place and it was sobad that I had to get, I think I
talked about it here at the, theshit slip, which gave me
permission to leave work and gohome.
The poop permission slip is whatyou call it.
The poop permission slip.
And just get sick all over myown house.
That should be the emote ofours.
Poop permission slip.
Yeah, that's the only time.
(34:55):
And, oh, no, actually, that'snot true.
I had to tell Kate that I hadIBS when the fucking Yahoo boys
were just like, Hey, we're gonnastay in a hostel.
We're gonna stay in a hosteland, we're all gonna share.
Is that like the woo girls?
The Yahoo boys?
Yes, the Yahoo boys.
The pants splitter Yahoo boys.
You know, the Yahoo boys.
(35:16):
They're like, let's stay in ahostel all together.
Wouldn't that be fun?
Wouldn't that be Yes! There willbe a thin piece of material
separating your bunk fromeveryone else's.
And I'm like, I'm not You'relike, bunk?
So I had to go to Kate.
Like, what?
Yes.
I had to go to Kate and be like,Kate, I can't.
I, I cannot.
I have to have There are bunkbeds, but we're removing all of
(35:37):
them so that we can all sleep onthe floor together and sleep in
peace.
I know.
Can you imagine?
I'm not sharing.
No, but like having to share abathroom with coworkers is
humiliating.
Sharing a bathroom and a bedwith me.
Overnight.
Yeah, you don't count.
Like you would not tell anyonethat I did that, that like a
person, you're like, you don'tcount.
(35:57):
No, but like that's, you're theperson that I was able to trust
and be like, yeah, hey, yeah, Iget sick.
it's just, oh, sorry to tangentagain, but invisible chronic
illnesses like arthritis or sdanlos or celiac's disease.
Mm-hmm Immunosuppressivedisorders, that and mental can't
(36:18):
be seen.
Mental issues.
Yep.
You feel like shit, but becausenothing looks wrong, you're met
with suspicion.
Mm-hmm It's like, and it's nottaken as seriously.
Like, I remember that shit fromschool, right?
Where you would be like, mm-hmmOh, I'm sick.
And you felt that from like yourparents sometimes.
(36:40):
And like, your teachers, yourprincipal, whoever, that like,
they're suspicious and they'relike, okay, you're sick.
You know?
Like they don't believe you.
And it must be real, like, whenI was a kid, like, of course, I
was, like, not really sick,sometimes.
But to have that happen whenyou're an adult in a workplace
(37:03):
with other adults blows my mindcompletely.
Mm hmm.
Like, you're not, it's, like,you're not gonna believe me.
Until I shit my pants in ameeting, you're not going to
believe, you know what I mean?
Or, like, until I Breakdown orhave a autistic meltdown like
until you see a weakness fromme.
(37:24):
Yeah, which then makes youvulnerable We're not gonna take
it seriously, right?
How many, how many days do youthink you went to work feeling
like 100 percent great?
I just mean, there's always alow level of feeling like shit.
like, I want to say never, but Idon't know.
(37:52):
It's hard to think back thatfar, because I think I was burnt
out for such a long time that Ididn't even realize it.
until we started this podcast.
I was like, oh, I am burnt out.
Just kidding.
That was a joke.
I think there were maybe somedays where, like, things were
going and maybe we were workingon a project that really, like,
had me excited, but that wasrare.
(38:15):
And I, I couldn't tell you.
I can't answer that.
Can you answer that?
Yeah.
So with Ehlers Danlos, it is,like, have you heard of,
tinnitus where it's just likethat kind of faint ringing and
it never goes away?
So there is a level, yeah,there's a level of pain that is
just like on all day, every day.
Some days it's worse, some daysit's better, but it is
(38:38):
constantly there.
It's joint pain and it's justthere constantly.
And depending on how the daygoes, I either end the day in
much worse shape or.
In similar shape.
Right.
and all, the whole time, I haveto answer questions and manage
people and keep my shit togetherand when you have pain, your
(39:01):
brain can't fully focus onwhat's going on.
Makes it harder to do your job.
It makes it harder to payattention.
It makes it harder to be inmeetings.
It makes it harder to doeverything.
And what, then you just get kindof conditioned to it and deal
with it.
Yeah.
Yes, you have to use your mentalenergy.
(39:21):
Elyssa's saying like you have touse mental energy just to focus
and it is.
It's draining.
And again, that ratchets up yourtrip to burnout so much faster.
I feel like, honestly, that'show I feel with depression.
Like when I'm going through abad spell of depression, I think
that's one thing that I veryrarely have taken off for is my
(39:42):
mental health.
I have taken mental health dayssometimes, but not as often as I
should have, and it's not,definitely not physical pain,
but it's hard, it's hard to workwhen you're in the hole, when
you're in the, that's what Icall it, the hole, and like
super depressed, it's tough.
(40:03):
Especially having to managepeople and, like, be someone who
is in a lot of meetings and, andthen, and then, so during those
times, I would kind of just,like, keep my camera off for
meetings and I would get shitfor it.
Like, people would, even ifnobody, It was very rare that
(40:24):
people were like, you need tohave your camera on or like my
boss was ever telling me that.
But people kind of would belike, Jamie never has her camera
on or something like that.
And like, that bothered me thatpeople would say that because
like, they didn't know like whyI did that.
and that was the reason.
like, given sometimes the reasonwas I just don't, I don't want
(40:45):
you to see my face because Ihate everything right now.
And that's unrelated, but yeah,but when depressed, like.
It's so hard.
It's so hard to like, and that,that is so much energy.
To just And people think you'relazy for it, too.
They think you're fucking lazy,because just just get better.
(41:09):
Just be think positively, andlike, just go do just go do your
laundry.
Think positively.
Sure.
Okay.
Pray.
Yeah.
Yes.
Depression's very much likethat.
Marina said the toxicity of workbrings it down to like 60
percent every time I open up thelaptop.
Is that my new baseline?
Yeah, I remember from the job Ijust got laid off from.
(41:32):
I remember every week, so it waslike, you know, they talk about
the Sunday scaries.
My Sunday scaries were so bad.
I was just like, what's it gonnabe?
Because every Monday, it waslike, without a doubt, like
clockwork, every Monday I wouldcome in, some major thing was
changing, and mostly it wassomething that they had just
(41:52):
changed the week before, andit's like, okay, we're gonna
flip it again, and now we haveto change again, or we have to
like, switch it back, so undoall the work you did, and now do
all this new work, and like, itwas just so exhausting, And so,
like, every time I came in, I,like, I would just kind of,
like, brace myself and it wasawful.
Also, I'm looking at our fuckingoutline here and we're talking
(42:14):
about, like, I can't finishwork.
It's bullet points, you blahblah blah, and then it just
says, you need, and then no onefinished the sentence.
That was probably me.
I probably did that.
Were you talking about, like,managing your time better, too?
Like, when you're depressed?
Yeah, that's the thing peopleare like, oh, yeah.
Oh, yeah when people are like,oh just mean no That's even just
(42:35):
like just being burnt out if youtell someone you're burnt out,
right?
I have to tell you you gave methat advice and just put your
bunch put a bunch of shit in abig plastic tote and then Jamie
that has been a fucking gamesaver and like I have to thank
you for that.
Wait, where's your tote?
Where do you put your totes?
It's in my room.
Oh, okay.
I learned that, I learned thatfrom Domestic Blisters.
(42:56):
One tote.
Because like, oh, the geniusthing she does is when you're
like, It's like, it's kind oflike an ADHD hack, right, where
it's like you're getting allthis clutter in one spot, and
it's like, okay, I should putsomething here to collect this
clutter, and either that's whatI keep it in, or, like, collect
the clutter and then take thisbasket and, like, put it where
it belongs, like, once a week orwhenever.
(43:18):
so she does that.
She'll do that, like, on thebottom of the stairs.
I don't want to go downstairsand put this.
You just throw it in the basketand then you just bring it down
when you go down and then bringthe other one up when you go up
and For days, I can't doanything for burnout.
It's like, I know it's there andlike, it's okay.
(43:39):
And again, yeah, it's notmanaging your time better or
being lazy.
It's just, I don't have theenergy to do it.
So like, that's been brilliant.
So thank you genuinely.
Oh, you're so welcome.
I had no idea.
But yeah, that was I, I wasdomestic blistered.
And, that's one thing that Ilearned from her.
And some, like, that's still topof mind too, like, when I'm
cleaning, especially, aseverybody knows, I've been
(44:01):
working my way out of mydepression apartment, which is
going very well, actually,finally, but every time, like,
I'm like, all this stuff herethat, like, I haven't even seen
or gone through, like, inforever, and I'm like, okay, all
this, Piled up here.
What do I need?
Like, what sort of organizationsystem?
And that could be anything.
It doesn't have to be like, Idon't know, like, you don't need
(44:26):
a set of drawers for everything,or like a set of shelves for
everything.
Like, it can be something, like,totally different.
Like, I guess just like a catchall tray or something, because
like, you come home and youthrow all your mail and your
keys and everything on thetable, right?
Like, throw a little tray there,so it's there.
For me, like, And this is alsofor ADHD because I forget
(44:48):
things.
whenever I come home, I have,hooks right to the left of my
door where all my keys live.
And sometimes to my mask, likeI'll have my mask hanging there.
So like I have that there and Ijust like put them up there all
the time.
So, I love it.
Yeah, and you don't, you feelless shitty like on the days
(45:08):
where you're like, I just feellike shit all the time.
You don't feel like you'resurrounded by more.
You know what I mean?
So that's, it's been veryhelpful.
That's been great.
Do you notice how you feel?
I'm like, organization?
Like, I like, lit up.
I was like, yes, let's talkabout this.
(45:29):
I'm a very organized person.
My apartment's just a mess.
Like.
It's not as much of a mess rightnow because I've been doing
work.
I've been doing the work.
Your fridge did look reallynice.
Wait, were you judging me likeI'm not an organized person?
Have you seen my fucking pantryand my fridge?
(45:50):
And I know you.
I know we both try really hard.
We both try really, really,really hard.
I will Okay, now I'm gonna takepictures of all my organization
shit and send it to you.
I'm gonna send it to everyone.
I'm gonna put it on discord ashsays, same on the depression
apartment, Jamie.
Also my robot vacuum is still inits box.
So when Ash and I workedtogether, she got, I got a
(46:13):
Roomba and then she got aRoomba.
I feel like it may have evenbeen like, a year later, maybe
less, and she's like, oh, Ididn't set it up yet.
And I was like, oh, it's okay.
I was like, took me a while toset it up to, like, whatever.
And so, like, every, like, fewmonths, I'm an asshole, I guess,
and I would be like, oh, justcurious, just curious, just
(46:35):
curious, Ash, is your Roomba setup?
And she'd be like, I don't wantto talk about it.
And so we kept talking about it,and then, she still hadn't.
And when I got laid off, shestill hadn't, because I think we
mentioned it on our, one of ourlast one on ones.
Listen, Ash, Jamie was verybrave and did the Litter Robot,
and I was there on the day onthe phone.
(46:55):
She was like, I'm just gonna doit.
So just have, call us.
We will be on the phone with youso you can just get it done.
Yeah.
We'll support you in it.
My Litter Robot sat around formaybe a month?
Oh yeah, no, it was not, we'renot into years or multiple
months.
Yeah, but it was like maybe, ohyeah, I was just saying like I
think it was a month.
But then I told Ash recentlythat.
(47:17):
my robot mop that I got sat foralmost a year before I set it
up.
So I get it, I get it.
It's so, but it's also just likeout of sight, out of mind, cause
it's in a box pushed to theside, like I'm not thinking
about it, but what I did withthe litter robot is I set it
kind of like in the middle of myapartment and it's like the
(47:39):
hugest things.
So I had this huge box, thislitter robot in the middle of my
apartment.
And I told Rebecca, I don't knowif you remember this, but, When
I went to Phoenix, I had, like,cleaned my apartment up as best
I could, and I was like, I hadstarted using the Litter Robot
box as, like, a table, so Istarted stacking stuff up on it.
(48:02):
And, yeah, and so I looked atall that stuff stacked on it,
and I was like, I don't havetime to put this away, and I was
like, it's just, it's just gonnastay there.
So I even told my pet sitter,who is amazing, I love her so
much, use a coaster, you toldher, use a coaster before you
Where you put something on thetable.
Please make sure to clean up anymesses that you make while
you're here.
Can you imagine?
(48:23):
I should do that next time as ajoke.
She'll probably think it'sfunny.
let's go.
Let's go.
Let's bully Ash into getting herrobot.
that's why we Do you like yourrobot mop?
Elyssa wanted to know.
I do, but because I've haddepression apartment for so long
and I'm still working out of it,I, I, I'm not using it much
right now, but Ideally, I'llhave it set up so that it'll go,
(48:49):
because you can set it to goimmediately after your robot
vac.
So I'll have that set up like,whatever, like twice a week, or
once a week, or probably twice aweek, where it goes like right
after the bot and it mops.
Full disclosure, it is a highpain day, and I may or may not
have taken a painkiller beforethis, and The painkiller.
(49:10):
My brain literally went, I went,Oh, I hope her Roomba and mop
fall in love like a fucking highperson.
that was my thought is like, Ihope Jamie's mop robot and
Roomba robot fall in love.
So I'm hoping my cats fall inlove with them because my dream
is to have a cat that rides Yes,the Roomba around oh my god,
(49:34):
there's currently too much stuffin the way, like stuff is on the
box, but it's on my to do list,exactly, Ash, I get you, I get
you, I was there, but! And fulldisclosure, the cats have been
using the Litter Robot, like,they're pretty much using it
immediately.
I think it took them, like, oneweek to get fully acclimated,
and it's been weeks now.
(49:55):
And, I still haven't gotten ridof the old litter box, which
also includes, because it alsoincludes getting rid of a whole
enclosure that I had for the oldlitter box.
Which is a table, right?
It's like a, it's like one ofthose hidden boxes.
So like, I feel like I need toget a piece, see, now I'm, now
I'm just thinking about likeorganizing.
If, I just want to get a pieceof wood or something that I can
(50:15):
slide perfectly into that cubbyover the little robot and then I
can put the cat stuff on there.
Like make my own shelf,basically.
No, that'd be handy.
I don't know how to do that.
I don't either.
It sounds simple in my head.
I know, I'm like, yeah, thatsounds good, that piece of wood
into a shelf.
(50:36):
Maybe I'll make my dad figure itout, because my parents will be
here next week.
I'll make my dad figure it out.
Yes.
Daddy, I need a shelf.
Do a shelf, dad.
Thank you.
Just like, just the tools.
I'm like, I can't.
Dads love that.
They're like, oh, I'll get it.
No, they love to figure it out.
My dad loves that I have a toolbag that's full of tools and
(51:01):
that I have, I have this wholelittle Organization thing that I
made for all of my, like, screwsand nuts and bolts and nails and
everything.
And I have it all organized andI have all this stuff.
I'm like, I don't know, itpleases my father.
He's like, yeah, tools.
I'm like, alright, tools.
(51:23):
But anytime I, like, need to useone, I'm still like, what do I
do?
What is this?
Never mind.
Rob, Rob purposely, it's like,what do you need it for?
are you gonna put it back?
Cause he knows I'm gonna use itand then put it down somewhere
and fucking forget it.
(51:43):
So, what do you need it for?
Okay, I'll get it for you.
Cause he also knows I will leaveit open.
He should have an Apple AirTagjust for you.
That's like on, like hanging onthe toolbox or tool bag or
whatever.
And then anytime you take out atool, you have to attach it.
Rob, that's free.
That's free from me to you.
Free idea.
(52:05):
He got me ear tags forChristmas, a couple of years
ago, a year ago.
And you still never use them?
I don't, I don't know him.
Oh my God.
Rebecca.
Again, we try to be organized.
They're great.
It doesn't stick.
They're really great.
I do.
I want to get more.
I'm sure they are.
When I When I find them, I willuse the shit out of them.
(52:28):
Jesus Christ.
Manic says, as a dude, hellyeah, tools.
Yeah, I don't Yeah, it's a lot.
Just got tools Yeah, i'm lookingat our The time.
Your time policing No, i'mlooking at our outline.
I think we talked on insurancealready but we didn't really
(52:54):
talk about insurance, TBH.
higher premiums.
No, we talked about like higherpremiums if you don't get this
debt.
But yeah, okay, so medicines andall the stuff you do need to
cope with.
All of your chronic illnessesand or pain management is hella
expensive.
Yeah.
(53:14):
And even if you have insurance.
Even if you have insurance andwhen you don't, you are screwed.
I had a whole conversation onInstagram the other day about
ADHD meds with literally afriend of a friend that like,
we're very friendly onInstagram, but we really don't
know each other.
It's actually, one of Hanifa,Hanifa and Hanifa's friend.
but.
She was talking about how shewas right now having to pay out
(53:37):
of pocket for Vyvanse, which Ihave done, and that shit is like
500 a month.
It's 500 a month.
God damn it.
It's insane.
It's insane.
And so I was like, listen, thisis my experience.
I was like, I don't, I knoweverybody's different, and I
don't know what you've done orwhat you've tried, but like, I
(53:58):
tried Adderall early on, decidedit wasn't for me, went on
Vyvanse.
Then had to pay out of pocketfor Vyvanse and then was like,
oh, and then couldn't getVyvanse.
That's another thing, is therewas just shortage of, of ADHD
medication across the country.
yeah, it's So let me get thisstraight.
(54:19):
You have a problem, you can getmedication for it, and when you
do get medication for it, itcosts too much, but then they're
also out of it, so then you haveto keep feeling like shit, but
then it gets worse becauseyou're not medicated switching
back and forth and that's notgreat.
By the time you're on it, it'stoo fucking late.
And then they want to make it sodifficult for you to get it,
like, I know this is mongeringand I'm sorry, but that fucking
(54:45):
news about RFK being like, we'rejust gonna take, you know, just
take a look at thoseantidepressants and ADHD meds
and maybe send you to a wellnesscenter.
I swear to fucking God.
that's, that's the thing thatactually kind of makes me laugh
because I'm like, it's horrible.
Yes.
But I'm just saying, like, thepart of me that's just like,
you're going to take a bunch ofpeople that are extremely
unwell, that need this tofunction, and some of us not
(55:09):
murder people, and take thataway.
But, hey, there's always a firsttime if I am walking around
suddenly unmedicated.
Good luck.
You never know.
Good luck, buddy.
God.
God.
They will pry it from my coldfucking dead hands.
Yeah, I think that's kind oflike I already feel like shit.
(55:30):
I don't want to be in this worldfeeling even more like shit
Yeah, it's it's miserable whenyou have chronic stuff to deal
with Especially yeah, miserableperiod but especially when it's
invisible and people are likeit's also Another reason that I
(55:51):
always, maybe I'm just toopositive sometimes, but I do
always just have, I have, youknow me, like I'm, I always
think, you never know, I alwayssay I try to put myself in the
other person's shoes, and younever know what the other
person's going through.
And to an extent, that's likepart of what that is too, is
(56:14):
like, They could be goingthrough a really bad spell of
depression.
They could have chronic painthat I don't know about and it's
a bad pain day.
Or like, maybe they haven't beenable to get the meds they need
to deal with X thing.
And so like, whatever.
And I know that doesn't excusepeople being dicks and assholes.
It definitely does not.
But I think sometimes I alwaysjust think that in my head
(56:36):
because I've been there.
I agree with Ash.
Ash is like, maybe this is whatstarts the revolution.
Give a bunch of unmedicated ADHDpeople a hyperfixation.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.
They're fucked.
That's what we need.
The government is fucked.
Yep.
Yep.
Very true.
All right, guys.
Focus your rage at that onething.
(57:00):
Viva la Neurodivergent rerevolution Seriously.
I love feeling like shit andthen living in fear that they're
gonna take away the stuff thatmakes things a little bit
better, I think.
really that's the point.
The point is they want us tolive in fear.
(57:22):
Oh, control.
Yeah.
Please.
I could talk for another fuckinghour about this.
Thanks for hanging in there withus, and, yeah, we'll see you
next week thank you all so much,take care of yourselves, and
remember to take days off workwhen you're sick, and just when
you need to.
The Burnout Collective is hosted by me, Jamie Young.
Rebecca (57:43):
And me, Rebecca McCracken.
You can find all our episodes,plus show notes, at
burnoutcollective.
com.
Jamie (57:49):
Follow the discord link on our website to join the
burnout community.
You can also find us on TikTokand Instagram.
Rebecca (57:56):
If you're interested in being a guest on a future
episode or have questions orfeedback.
You can email us at podcast atburnout collective.
com.
Full disclosure, it is a highpain day, and I may or may not
have taken a painkiller beforethis, and The painkiller.
My brain literally went, I went,Oh, I hope her Roomba and mop
fall in love like a fucking highperson.
Jamie (00:16):
I'm Jamie.
And I'm Rebecca.
Welcome to the BurnoutCollective.
Hey everybody.
Hello.
Hi, Rebecca.
Hi happy January part 27.
Oh my god It really is and Ifeel the longest january ever My
(00:37):
therapist is going on maternityleave and I got an email from
her yesterday being like, hey,did you want to continue with
another therapist?
I was like, ew.
No.
No, cause then I don't want tohave to tell someone all my shit
over and over again.
You're like, I'll wait.
And then I'll wait.
And also I don't want her tohave anyone to compare notes
with either.
Like, I just.
(00:58):
Don't want that.
Can you imagine the othertherapist, just like, her coming
back from an attorney leave, andlike, the other therapist being
like, Yeah, so Cindy, what thehell?
Yeah, so many things wrong herethat apparently you're not
addressing with her.
Like, I've had months to ease myand years, actually, to ease my
current one into it.
I I don't have three months forthis shit.
(01:20):
Yeah, that's that's really,like, the hardest part.
is finding a good therapist, andthen keeping a good therapist.
I don't even remember what shesaid, but I remember the day
that I was like sure that mytherapist was breaking up with
me, and I was like horrified.
Cause she said something.
Oh, it was literally justbecause she was gonna go on
(01:42):
vacation for like a coupleweeks.
And, and the way she started it.
Was very like, you know, I knowwe've been like doing this thing
for a long time and, and I wasjust like, oh no, and then I was
like, Oh my God, Cindy, I waslike, I thought you were
breaking up with me.
(02:02):
And she goes, Oh God, no.
And then she's like, okay, Irealized how that could have
sounded like that.
I'm like, yeah.
I guess we have a little bit of,a little bit of housekeeping.
Mhm.
Yeah, again, we are on yourpodcast feed.
So we are all caught up in thepodcast feeds, so all 12
episodes are now in there.
Go listen to them, go follow us,go rate us, five stars, and,
(02:27):
What this means now is that eachweek, so like today, we're
recording, we're live onThursdays, we're live today, and
then on Tuesday, this episode,the audio of this episode will
be in your podcast feed, theedited audio, and that's how it
will be going forward.
yeah.
(02:49):
That's what I got.
It's very exciting.
I'm excited.
Same.
the other big thing, please takea look on Sundays, Elyssa
Kirkham is doing the WorldBuilders Book Club, she's so
warm and wonderful and relatableand the books that she reads and
all the topics she talks aboutare super relevant to today and
(03:12):
personally, it's, it's nice tofind like a little bit of
kindness and someone doing goodIt's inspirational and it makes
you hopeful.
I guess.
Yeah, it is very hopeful andlike And it's good.
It's like it's it's I learned somuch from her like every time I
always call it my church So Ialways say like come come have
(03:35):
church with us on Sunday withElyssa It's 10 a.
m Pacific, I believe.
Yeah, 10am Pacific, Brave Saver.
Please go follow her, and try tocatch some of her streams,
because she's brilliant and she,she deserves more viewership
because I think what she's doingis Amazing.
(03:59):
And, I don't know, she's just,she's doing the work, you guys,
and more people should bebenefiting from this.
anyway, we just want to giveElyssa some love because she's,
she's awesome and she's doingsuch a great job and we just
want to make sure everybodyknows about her and everybody's
following her, and tuning inwhen they can.
(04:20):
Yeah, she's the best.
We also have, some upcomingguests.
tentatively for next week, ifall goes well, Madeline Shores
will be coming on.
Again, she is currentlyrecovering from a extremely
toxic workplace.
it'll be a nice kind of capperto what we're going to talk
about today as she's stilldealing with health fallout,
(04:42):
even though she no longer worksthere.
And then the week after that, islikely going to be Robin Sachs
Frankel, who is a good friend ofmine and ex co worker, we're
going to talk about somedifferent things with Robin, but
one of the main things is goingto be just being the person who
(05:02):
speaks up and speaks out in theworkplace when everyone around
you really isn't, and especiallydoing so as a woman, and then
after that.
It, again, tentatively, it willbe, Rachel Cannon, who is my
sister.
She went from working, inmuseums with an MFA in museum
studies, and she is now anworking as an electrician's
(05:24):
apprentice.
she joined a union, and one ofthe things that she deals with
on a day to day basis is workingin what is typically considered
a male dominated field, andhaving to deal with that
bullshit every day.
And dear listeners, we are goingto get so much dirt on Rebecca.
Joke's on you.
Thanks to trauma, she doesn'tremember shit from our
(05:44):
childhood.
That's terrible.
All right, that's it.
Let's get into it.
Episode 13.
We're here.
Fucking physical illnesses,chronic illnesses, dealing with
chronic illness in the workplaceand getting chronic illnesses
from being in the workplace.
We're gonna cover that.
Or even just getting sick in theworkplace.
(06:07):
God, yes.
full disclosure, I went into mywork profile, and you know how
they have like the voluntaryDEI, like if you have a
disability, you know, you canvolunteer that.
I was, I, nope, nope, nothing tosee here, nope, nope, nope,
nope, nope, just changed allthat.
There is nothing to see.
(06:27):
We have our own DEIs over here.
We're just gonna keep that as ano, just in case.
Even now, like, I always checkthe box.
That I have a disability when Iapply for jobs.
Do I need to not be doing thatanymore?
Correct.
You need to not be doing that.
You are fine and normal andhealthy.
I guess that's why.
(06:48):
I haven't been getting jobsy'all.
I don't, I don't have a job.
Yeah.
Because I, because I have mentaldisabilities.
And if they came to me and werelike, we noticed you changed it.
Like I was, I, I don't know.
I, my hand slipped.
It was the wrong thing.
Sorry.
I just, they can't prove it.
(07:08):
I don't work in an office.
That's insane.
there was a 18 year study inDenmark that followed around
working men and women, in whatis a surprise to absolutely no
one, high stress environmentscaused a significant higher rate
of people with chronicillnesses, and if they didn't
get a chronic illness, they diedearlier.
(07:30):
Yay.
As compared to people who didn'twork.
Something to look forward to.
The people who worked in a lowstress environment did not have
that happen to them.
18 years.
I've been working for 20.
Yep.
So that was, that was really,really scary.
And, again, surprise to no one.
the signs of feeling chronicallyill and feeling unhealthy in the
(07:54):
workplace.
let's go over these.
Headache, sleep disturbances,difficulty in concentrating,
short temper.
upset stomach, jobdissatisfaction, and low morale.
that's, that's every day ofeveryone's life.
Yeah.
Seriously.
And it's just.
That's, that's everybody.
And there's so few companies whoare actually, because there are
(08:17):
a lot of companies that do say,you know, we care about your
mental health and your physicalhealth.
And we want you, you know, weinsist that you take at least
two weeks off of vacation everyyear.
And.
Blah, blah, blah.
But companies that actually, Iguess, walk the talk, are very
(08:37):
few.
Very few.
Can you think of any?
You gave me that face, and I waslike I know, because I was like,
I knew what you were going tosay, and I'm like, I can't think
of any.
Maybe Costco.
I wanna, I wanna say that placethat we worked, that we met, but
I guess I can't.
I wouldn't.
I wouldn't.
I wouldn't.
(08:58):
I wouldn't.
I would disagree with that one.
I feel like, because a lot ofthat, you know, came from Kate,
our friend Kate, who is HRdirector.
Yes.
And so there were a lot ofinitiatives that, listen, they
would pay for me to get amassage once a month.
Completely pay for it.
that's true.
They did.
They did do that, didn't they?
(09:19):
You know, so that meant a lot tome because everywhere else I've
worked.
They have wellness stipends, butthey're like, but you can't
really use it for anything.
And really what they mean by youcan't use it for everything is
you can only use it for a gymmembership, like a physical gym
membership.
Oh, you want to do something onan app at home?
(09:40):
No.
We want you to go into a gym andget COVID.
Wait, wait.
Here's the insidious part.
They do that because the smallerthe employees are That no, but
really like you can meet it witha nutritionist.
So weight loss programs.
They also have a lot of thoseinitiatives because people who
weigh less they have lowerinsurance premiums.
(10:03):
So it's not for you, it's forthem.
Yay! Fatphobia.
They don't give a fuck aboutyou.
They just want you hungry andtiny and they want to pay less.
Yep.
God, that sounds miserable.
Right.
So that's the thing.
Those initiatives are a bottomline for them.
Yeah.
You could get hit by a bustomorrow.
(10:24):
They would have your job upbefore end of day.
Oh, yeah.
Oh god.
You could get, I don't know,gunned down in the street by a
hot Italian guy and they wouldreplace you.
Actually, they would have ameeting first and then address
it and then replace you.
This is reminding They do notcare.
This is reminding me of Iactually just recently started
(10:46):
watching Severance.
Did you watch Severance?
I just started season two.
I did too.
And oh my, is it wild.
But it's just reminding me, andI, like, I don't want to talk
about it because I don't want toruin it for people, but I just
had to say, if you're notwatching Severance, please watch
Severance.
Mm hmm.
I feel like we should do, like,maybe we should do a series at
(11:09):
some point, and even if it'slike an extra episode, like it's
not a podcast, but just ustalking about Severance.
I would do that.
Yeah.
I would 100% do that becauselike even if we do like a, I
don't know, like a watch partyor something, but yeah, I would
a hundred percent do that.
Insane.
Insane.
And another thing in, in the popculture today that made me think
(11:30):
of our podcast, little bit of atangent, so, I was playing Hello
Kitty Island Adventure, and atthe very start, you start on an
airplane.
And you're supposed to go aroundand, like, talk to everybody.
You talk to I guess Retsuko,who's like a little fox or
something.
And Retsuko's like She hasburnout.
Yeah, Retsuko's burnt out, dude.
And she's like, you go talk toher, you're like, oh, are you
(11:51):
excited to go on this islandadventure?
And like, she's like, oh my god,I really needed a break from
work, blah, blah, blah, blah,and I wish I had taken a
screenshot then, because I wasjust in awe.
But I took a screenshot of thenext one, which was Like I hope
that I can get to relax on thisvacation, but I keep thinking
about my boss and the workThat's probably piling up and I
(12:12):
was like, yeah, even even onlike Hello Kitty Island, dude
Like the Sanrio Hello Kittiesare burnt out.
She, so are you familiar withthe character, because she has
like her alternative side whenshe finally fucking snaps.
and not to um, actually, I thinkshe's a red panda.
But she like, she screams andyou can just like see flames and
(12:34):
she's raging.
And it's like, oh yeah, that's,that's, because she, someone
asked her to do one more fuckingthing and she loses her absolute
shit.
She's like, no.
so fun fact back to illnessesthat chronic burnout keeps your
immune system and keeps yournervous system in fight or
flight.
And that means that your immunesystem goes to shit and you get
(12:56):
sick more easily.
It takes longer for you torecover.
so it's just like this viciouscircle of hell.
yeah, When you have a chronicillness from work or if you have
a chronic illness before youwork You still have to go to
work doesn't matter if you cometo it with it or you get it from
working there You still have towork every day.
Yeah, and I think I think womenare already trained to do that,
(13:19):
just having to work with yourperiod.
So I think we're less likely totake the days off that we need
and we just end up pushingthrough which just makes things
worse.
Did we even talk about this whenwe were talking about this show?
I don't even think we talkedabout being on your period
because yes, I remember, andalso I remember being so
(13:41):
surprised that she let me, butin school, in like middle school
and high school.
Like, I had such bad cramps thatI was like, I can't even
function, so finally I was like,Mom, can I just, like, come
home, and she was like, Yeah.
Like, anytime it's, like, toobad, just ask to come home, you
can definitely come home.
(14:02):
And I remember being Sheprioritized you taking care of
your body?
That's crazy.
I know.
I know.
it doesn't happen often.
And no, I have not.
that's where it starts.
I've said that before in highschool and elementary school and
middle school.
That Perfect Attendance Award.
Oh, yeah.
They give it, they give it as anaward.
So kids learn that like, you're,you just have a little fever, go
(14:23):
to school.
That's where this starts.
Yeah.
Which is awful, because like,it's not only awful for the
person, which it is.
Miserable for, but it's alsoawful for others to see that as
like, Oh, this person's pushingthrough like at work.
Oh, this person's pushingthrough.
So like I should.
And then another side of thatis, and I've talked about the
(14:47):
same person before that I workedwith, who would always come to
work sick, and she would getother people sick.
Like, you're not, you're notgoing to get a prize for this.
Like, You don't, you don't get aprize for this.
But also, I feel like somecompanies make it seem like you
(15:09):
get a prize, or at least, maybenot a prize, but like, if, if,
If you're sick and you take offwhen you're sick, you're looked
down upon, right?
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
Or like, or like your manager,you know, is kind of like, Oh,
like, what do you have?
Like, they get comfortable withyou and they're like, Oh, what
do you have?
(15:30):
And it's just like, It's noneof, it's none of your business.
I should just, I should justsay, I'm not feeling well, I
can't come in and that's the endof it.
I, we had to put our cat tosleep and I had to take off for
a day and having to ask forthat, for a thing which I know
I'm going to be a wreck for andno good at work.
(15:52):
I felt so fucking weird anduncomfortable asking for that.
Like, he was like, it's just afucking cat.
I took a week off.
You know what I mean?
I took almost a whole week offwhen I had to put Punk to sleep.
I pushed through when mygrandfather died.
I was like, oh, just take oneday.
I should have taken a fullfucking week.
(16:16):
What a horrible example to setfor everyone who works under me.
Yeah.
What the fuck kind of managerdoes that make me?
you're a great manager, butyeah, I am always.
A bad example of taking care ofyourself.
You're, you're, you're a badexample of taking time off.
Which I'm always trying to getyou to do.
I know.
(16:38):
But I also understand becauseit's hard because there's a lot
of pressure and there's morepressure when you are a manager
because you're like, I want tobe here for these people and
like, and we're workingremotely.
So it's like, well, I'm sick,but you know, I'm not going to
get anyone else sick.
So it's okay.
No, it's not okay.
Take care of yourself.
You can work from bed.
You can work from bed.
(16:58):
And they're like, you can work.
No, but really.
And so you're like, well, Imean, I don't have to be sitting
up totally to work.
And it's like, but it's like,no, you should be resting and
not thinking about work and notdoing this other.
Yes.
I, I am very lucky to have a coeditor who is like, you're
(17:21):
taking time off soon, right?
Right?
I'm like, yes.
Yes, I am.
And she's a good example oflike, I'm taking my time.
Yeah.
I'm like, hell yeah you are.
there was one thing she couldn'tcome to and my boss was gonna
gripe about it.
I was like, ah, she's, no, thisis her time off.
She's, yeah, she's planned thisfor a while just because things
changed here doesn't mean thatshe should change her stuff at
(17:44):
all.
Like, she's not responsible forthat.
I've had unlimited vacation forquite a while now at different
jobs I've worked.
I've been lucky enough, enoughto have that.
And I know some people Wait,wait, wait.
Hold on.
That's another scam.
I know some people think thatit's worse when you get that
because you have unlimited.
(18:05):
So, then you're like, oh,whatever.
And then you end up not takingoff as much.
But, that's not the case withme.
they did studies, they didactual studies, and people take
actually less time off thanthat.
That's insane to me.
And also it's a scam.
I would never.
Because if they fire you, theydon't have to pay out vacation
for you.
do they still have to pay outvacation?
(18:26):
Is it, is that in every state?
thing, but.
Because I don't think they do.
No, Washington, they are notrequired to pay out vacation to
you at all.
Oh, okay.
Yeah, I was gonna say I don'tthink here either they have to.
But it's also been a long timefor me.
And if you don't accrue vacationhours, there's nothing to
fucking pay you.
I do take my time off for thatand I made sure, and again,
(18:50):
yeah, some companies, even withUnlimited, say, Hey, you have to
take off at least two weeks, orat least ten days, or something
like that, of vacation, becauseI think they saw these studies,
and at least were trying to, ifnot actually mean it, you know,
at least they were trying to saylike, Hey, we saw this, and we
(19:12):
want to make sure people aretaking off.
And it's just like, to me, it'slike, it's such a luxury, so why
would you not, I don't thinkthat I fully took advantage of
Unlimited Vacation until therewas a white man that I worked
with, and we had UnlimitedVacation, it was at maybe like
the second company I worked forwith Unlimited perhaps, and This
(19:36):
guy was like always off.
Like every time I turned around,this guy had like time off.
Sometimes it was just like aweekend, like an extra day or
two on a weekend.
Sometimes it was like threeweeks.
Sometimes it was a week, butlike every time I was like, how
is he taking time off again?
It just seemed like he wasalways taking time off.
And it was then that finally mybrain was like.
(19:59):
You have unlimited, take off.
It's basically just, and that'show I've always operated too, as
a manager.
you can take off whenever youwant, how much you want, I think
within, because I think there'sstill rules, you know, unlimited
vacation, but if it's more thanlike a month, or more than four
weeks, or three weeks, you haveto like, get an okay, but.
But then it's not unlimited.
(20:21):
Yeah, no, I know, I know.
but you also know that like, Iknow.
Someone like fucked that up foreverybody by being like, Oh,
it's unlimited.
Like this fucking guy.
I wanted to take, yeah, I wantedto take two months off to go
travel in Europe, you know, withmy fiancé.
As our like pre honeymoon.
Did you feel guilty taking offwhen that guy was out too?
(20:43):
Like if you were sick, were youlike, I I can't call out because
no one else will be here forthat.
I did at that time.
For sure, for sure.
And like, But all I do, and thisis kind of just like, my mantra
for, for all my roles lately,all my management roles or
leadership roles, is as long asmy direct reports are okay.
(21:06):
So I would, I would even like, Iwould have meetings with them,
like two weeks in advance of metaking off.
They would know that I wastaking off far in advance and
then I would meet with them andbe like, Okay, let's go over.
Is there anything you need fromme before?
So, like, the two weeks leadingup to it, it's like, If there's
anything urgent that I need totake care of before I'm gone for
(21:26):
two weeks or a week, like, tellme.
But then I would also just, evenmake them a plan sometimes.
So, cause like, I was off, Iwent to go see you, remember?
And I had, I was taking on a newrole, and I had new direct
reports.
And I wasn't gonna be there forthe, I, I thought about
canceling it, but I was like,No, I'm going, like, I'm going
(21:47):
to see Rebecca.
Like, that's not gonna happen.
with that whole thing, like ifthey, if it's that type of job
where you take off and it'slike, who's going to do this
job, that is not yourresponsibility that that company
did not adequately fulfill likethe needs of shit that needs,
like they did not adequatelyhire.
Oh yeah.
(22:08):
And this was like, this is likea role change that was very
unexpected because it happenedonly because of layoffs.
So it was out of the blue.
So like, I had already scheduledthis time off, but just, yeah, I
made, so like, because they werebrand new and there was like
some training that had to bedone, you know, with one of my
direct reports, I just kind ofmade her a little, like,
(22:28):
training one cheater and waslike, hey, do these, do these
edits and we'll talk about themwhen I get back.
Or, you know, Help the othereditor with this stuff and do
what she says, basically, butyeah, I just make sure that my
direct reports are okay.
Like everyone else that needsthings from me, like, you're
going to have to wait.
(22:50):
right.
What's the longest you've takenoff unexpectedly for being sick?
Oh, COVID.
When I got back from visitingyou.
I know.
didn't I take off three weeks?
You were really sick.
I was really sick.
So it was my first time gettingCOVID.
You took off a whole week.
Yeah.
(23:10):
because I think it was abouttwo, or about three weeks.
It ended up, so I took off aweek, and then I wasn't better,
and I was like, should I just goback?
And I was like, no.
So I took off the second week,and then the third week, I feel
like I was feeling better thethird week, and I just felt like
(23:30):
I might as well, I was like, Imight as well just like take the
extra time, just because Iwasn't a hundred, but I know
Even when I went back afterthree weeks, I wasn't 100, so,
it was good.
And some of that, honestly, Iprobably, I probably took that
third week because of burnout,too.
Because, like, on top of it, Iwas already super burnt out.
(23:52):
so, yeah.
So three weeks.
That's pretty good.
Yeah.
I, I was, I want to say a week,except that's not true.
I had, like, pneumonia,pneumonia.
Not like the fun walking kindlike actual pneumonia and I had
my laptop at home And I just wassitting with pneumonia in bed
(24:15):
fucking working.
So That's not even a week.
And didn't you too, didn't youhave like a, a surgery as well
and then that was a whole thing?
Oh, that's right.
I had a surgery and then I hadan unexpected follow up surgery
that I had to have immediatelyafter, and was calling my boss
crying, going, I have to go tothe hospital, right now.
(24:37):
I'm so sorry.
I'm apologizing for being rushedto the hospital.
Yep.
Something sounds like you gettaken care of like you.
Mm hmm.
I'll try to get back to work bytomorrow This was I could slap
you.
I did slap you so many times.
I could slap me I would slap me.
A whole ass surgery that I hadto be put to sleep for, I was
(24:59):
gonna show up back up to work.
I, oh my god, my gallbladderburst.
I, I said, I remember sending myboss like a picture of my
hospital bracelet to prove like,hey, I actually am really,
really, really fucking sickbecause I was afraid they
weren't going to believe me.
That's dumb.
When I went into labor, when Iwent into labor, I'd be like,
hey guys, I, I felt guilty forall of these Wasn't that
(25:22):
planned, though?
I'm apologizing for Like No.
No.
She was in emergency C section.
Oh, that's right.
Sorry.
I mean, in labor.
Yeah.
She was, like, almost two monthsearly, so Yeah.
I'm apologizing for having anemergency baby.
What the fuck is wrong with us?
I don't know, man.
I think, I think I was doinggreat with the whole taking time
(25:44):
off when I needed it.
But like, but that took me along time and it took me seeing
a lot of, a lot of different, alot of different people maybe
abusing the system of unlimitedtime off a little bit, I think,
for me to be like Oh my god,yes.
I should take time off.
And, and the thing is, what dowe tell our direct reports?
(26:07):
Yes, any time you need it,please take off.
If you're sick, if you have acold, please take off.
Like, don't do that to yourself.
No.
That's right.
So I got those, those hives.
Oh, that was your hives?
Yeah.
What was that?
I think it was like Chris, wasit Christmas of 2020 or
(26:27):
Christmas of 2021?
I think it was the worst year.
I think it was 2020.
But you, you also were the oneto tell me that's what was
happening to me.
Do you remember that?
I remember that phone call soclearly.
Do you remember that at all?
I was streaming the ending ofFran Bow and as I was streaming
my hands were kind of likeswollen And I was like, that's
really weird, but I was justlike, all right, just streaming
(26:50):
I'm just gonna do this and justcontemplate this game And it was
the allergic reaction.
Yeah, it was the well being.
Yeah.
Yeah, that was fucking scary Itwas like insane I didn't know
what happened and then Iremember I called you like after
and I was like dude the weirdestthing I was Like and honestly
like my scalp itches a littlebit and I don't know why but
like whatever You And then Ithink what happened was, I took
(27:11):
a shower.
I was like, maybe there's likesomething from like clothes I
was wearing or something.
So I like took a shower and Iget out of the shower and it
wasn't a lot at first, but I hadthese like red patches and I've
honestly, I had never had hivesbefore.
Like I have allergies, but notlike usually like skin
allergies.
so I was like, Like, is thishives, like, I guess?
So then I told you, I was like,I think I have hives.
(27:33):
It was just a little bit.
And you were, of course, doingyour Google fu, and you were
like, da da da da da.
And you were, like, looking up abunch of things.
And then all of a sudden, it wasquiet, and you go, you go, Oh my
God, Jamie.
And, like, whenever you go,Jamie, or whenever I get a text
that's just my name in all caps,you know, like, I know it's bad.
You're like, Oh my God, Jamie.
And I'm like, What?
(27:54):
And then you start reading thissentence to me from this, like,
study and it's like 0.
00001 percent of Wellbutrinusers, and I had been on it for
over a month, which is thething, so it didn't occur to
either of us.
That it would be from thatbecause I had already been on it
for so long.
Yeah, it was like over a monthAnd you were like have late
(28:15):
onset anaphylaxis and allergicreactions.
Yeah Like oh great, and then itgot so it was my entire body was
covered in hives Like, it wasinsane.
They were on the bottoms of myfeet.
They were in places I don't evenwant to talk about.
It was literally all over myhead and my scalp.
I think I have a picture.
(28:36):
But did you go to work?
Did you go to work the next day?
You did not.
I did not go to work.
So, this was actually over Thiswas over like a holiday break.
So I think I was just trying togive you credit.
No, I know, I know, I know.
I do remember thinking, however,like, I could be taking this
time off, you know?
but we're already off forholiday break.
(28:56):
And so like, that's how I spentmy like, pandemic Christmas,
which was already miserable.
Yeah.
Even more miserable.
But, yeah.
Here's what kills me.
When Emily had to go to thehospital, not once was I like,
Hey work, sorry.
I was like, fuck you guys.
You'll hear from me when youhear from me.
Not once was I like apologeticor like, I'll try to get in.
(29:19):
I was like, I don't care howlong this fucking takes.
I will quit this job.
But when it's for yourself andyou just get sicker.
Yeah.
I just have to teach you theways, Rebecca.
I'm slowly trying to get you to,you, you did take more days off,
right?
Don't you take like I'vescheduled them.
Yes, because you're always likeyou and so instead of me getting
(29:41):
to that point where I'm like I'mgoing to kill myself for
everyone.
I've scheduled at least once amonth Either a full day or a
half day What does this half daybullshit first?
You're not doing it, right?
no, those are the days We havethe editor happy hour and that's
the good stuff and I don't wantto miss that.
So I think that's where thegossip The truth comes out so
(30:03):
I've started scheduling them outso I don't get to the point of
snapping, which you encouragedme to do, and you were 100
percent right on that one,Listen, she told me she didn't
want to talk about it, but um,Rebecca and her family have to
put Their cat's asleep onSaturday, and that's very sad.
Yep, it is.
(30:23):
But we're not talking about it.
Yep, we can talk about it.
I'm not, I'm, I, but I did takeoff because I know I'm not going
to be in my right, in like theright frame of mind.
And before I would have justhonestly tried to schedule it
and power through.
Yeah.
And I didn't this time.
So I am, there is growth.
How does like, I want you totalk a little bit about like,
(30:44):
your husband, like, is he goodabout taking time off when he's
not well?
No, absolutely the fuck not.
No, he's terrible at it.
We're both terrible at it.
We will just be like, I feellike shit.
I know, but he also works inlike a high stress job.
He's IT, he's in one of thosejobs where it's like, if
something breaks, it breaks fora very expensive company.
(31:06):
so I'm just like, you should.
Take time off, which you're not,he's like, no, it's fine.
But he's like, I work remote.
He feels guilty too.
And the job market is so bad.
He's worried he's going to getlaid off or like.
Replaced.
That's miserable.
It's, I know, it's, it's scary.
That, especially, is scary,like, if you are in a bad job
(31:26):
market and you're sick, you'relike, I'm gonna show up because
they're trying to decide who tolay off.
Gosh, I wish Elyssa was here cuzElyssa was like, doing.
Oh, sorry.
I forgot I can ask you aquestion.
You can hear me.
Elyssa, when you were In thatwhole will they or won't they
with the layoff thing, werethere days where you're like, I
probably shouldn't take off?
(31:46):
Did you feel like they wouldnotice and maybe hold that
against you in the end?
Because I, I know myself and Iwould.
Or like, did you, did you havedays that you worked two hours
some days?
See, that's how you do it,Rebecca.
That's how you do it.
That's amazing.
That's so good.
But that's like, You are aninspiration.
(32:07):
Yeah.
Cause I mean, I think thatcrossed my mind when I had COVID
and was taking off because I waslike, Oh, this is so long and I
can't believe I have COVID.
They just did all these layoffsand I have this role change.
But it was like, I think at thatpoint I was just like, I'm just
going to take it off.
(32:27):
They laid me off.
Yeah.
So be it.
That's a good thought.
Elyssa was like, I already knewthat the decisions were made by
that point.
Okay, so Elyssa has a healthier,relationship with her body in
time off.
Good job.
Good job, Elyssa.
Yeah.
Back to like chronic illnesses,when you get one or if you have
(32:48):
one, or if one flares up in ahigh stress, toxic job.
It still follows you, even ifyou get a new fucking job, and
you like this job better, andthis job is better.
It's still there.
You may not have as many flareups, but it's still there, and
so now you're fucked.
Yeah.
(33:08):
And even though, like, maybeyou're in a healthier, better
place, and maybe The new companythat isn't a shitshow, is a
little more caring andunderstanding about these
things, so maybe you have moretime off, or you have a, you
know, I don't know, a stipendthat you can use for something
(33:29):
that really helps with thisthing that maybe you couldn't
afford otherwise, really.
It's still there and it's stillgonna affect you.
Like, it's not gonna go away.
Yeah.
You have to find that person whoyou work with, who you trust
enough to be like, Hey, I'm sicktoday.
Or like, Hey, I've got a flareand I'm gonna be in the
bathroom.
I can't make this meeting, butyou can text from the bathroom.
(33:51):
Like, that's if you don't have aWorkplace where you can do that
and both I've had both it'sawful It's awful when you're
just trying to hide it and getby and you don't have anyone you
can really confide it becauseyou know If you say anything to
hold it against you It'sinvaluable being at a workplace
where you can be sick and havesomeone who understands and can
(34:14):
at least like And even if that'sjust, like, your HR person,
like, that's probably, like,Because hell.
Watch the HR person be like,yeah, I also have IBS.
I'm sure that happens.
Like, I'm sure that has, hasthat ever happened to you?
You've probably never gone to HRwith that.
Oh, are you fucking kidding?
No, the only time I had to go toHR was when it was at that
(34:35):
really bad place and it was sobad that I had to get, I think I
talked about it here at the, theshit slip, which gave me
permission to leave work and gohome.
The poop permission slip is whatyou call it.
The poop permission slip.
And just get sick all over myown house.
That should be the emote ofours.
Poop permission slip.
Yeah, that's the only time.
(34:55):
And, oh, no, actually, that'snot true.
I had to tell Kate that I hadIBS when the fucking Yahoo boys
were just like, Hey, we're gonnastay in a hostel.
We're gonna stay in a hosteland, we're all gonna share.
Is that like the woo girls?
The Yahoo boys?
Yes, the Yahoo boys.
The pants splitter Yahoo boys.
You know, the Yahoo boys.
(35:16):
They're like, let's stay in ahostel all together.
Wouldn't that be fun?
Wouldn't that be Yes! There willbe a thin piece of material
separating your bunk fromeveryone else's.
And I'm like, I'm not You'relike, bunk?
So I had to go to Kate.
Like, what?
Yes.
I had to go to Kate and be like,Kate, I can't.
I, I cannot.
I have to have There are bunkbeds, but we're removing all of
(35:37):
them so that we can all sleep onthe floor together and sleep in
peace.
I know.
Can you imagine?
I'm not sharing.
No, but like having to share abathroom with coworkers is
humiliating.
Sharing a bathroom and a bedwith me.
Overnight.
Yeah, you don't count.
Like you would not tell anyonethat I did that, that like a
person, you're like, you don'tcount.
(35:57):
No, but like that's, you're theperson that I was able to trust
and be like, yeah, hey, yeah, Iget sick.
it's just, oh, sorry to tangentagain, but invisible chronic
illnesses like arthritis or sdanlos or celiac's disease.
Mm-hmm Immunosuppressivedisorders, that and mental can't
(36:18):
be seen.
Mental issues.
Yep.
You feel like shit, but becausenothing looks wrong, you're met
with suspicion.
Mm-hmm It's like, and it's nottaken as seriously.
Like, I remember that shit fromschool, right?
Where you would be like, mm-hmmOh, I'm sick.
And you felt that from like yourparents sometimes.
(36:40):
And like, your teachers, yourprincipal, whoever, that like,
they're suspicious and they'relike, okay, you're sick.
You know?
Like they don't believe you.
And it must be real, like, whenI was a kid, like, of course, I
was, like, not really sick,sometimes.
But to have that happen whenyou're an adult in a workplace
(37:03):
with other adults blows my mindcompletely.
Mm hmm.
Like, you're not, it's, like,you're not gonna believe me.
Until I shit my pants in ameeting, you're not going to
believe, you know what I mean?
Or, like, until I Breakdown orhave a autistic meltdown like
until you see a weakness fromme.
(37:24):
Yeah, which then makes youvulnerable We're not gonna take
it seriously, right?
How many, how many days do youthink you went to work feeling
like 100 percent great?
I just mean, there's always alow level of feeling like shit.
like, I want to say never, but Idon't know.
(37:52):
It's hard to think back thatfar, because I think I was burnt
out for such a long time that Ididn't even realize it.
until we started this podcast.
I was like, oh, I am burnt out.
Just kidding.
That was a joke.
I think there were maybe somedays where, like, things were
going and maybe we were workingon a project that really, like,
had me excited, but that wasrare.
(38:15):
And I, I couldn't tell you.
I can't answer that.
Can you answer that?
Yeah.
So with Ehlers Danlos, it is,like, have you heard of,
tinnitus where it's just likethat kind of faint ringing and
it never goes away?
So there is a level, yeah,there's a level of pain that is
just like on all day, every day.
Some days it's worse, some daysit's better, but it is
(38:38):
constantly there.
It's joint pain and it's justthere constantly.
And depending on how the daygoes, I either end the day in
much worse shape or.
In similar shape.
Right.
and all, the whole time, I haveto answer questions and manage
people and keep my shit togetherand when you have pain, your
(39:01):
brain can't fully focus onwhat's going on.
Makes it harder to do your job.
It makes it harder to payattention.
It makes it harder to be inmeetings.
It makes it harder to doeverything.
And what, then you just get kindof conditioned to it and deal
with it.
Yeah.
Yes, you have to use your mentalenergy.
(39:21):
Elyssa's saying like you have touse mental energy just to focus
and it is.
It's draining.
And again, that ratchets up yourtrip to burnout so much faster.
I feel like, honestly, that'show I feel with depression.
Like when I'm going through abad spell of depression, I think
that's one thing that I veryrarely have taken off for is my
(39:42):
mental health.
I have taken mental health dayssometimes, but not as often as I
should have, and it's not,definitely not physical pain,
but it's hard, it's hard to workwhen you're in the hole, when
you're in the, that's what Icall it, the hole, and like
super depressed, it's tough.
(40:03):
Especially having to managepeople and, like, be someone who
is in a lot of meetings and, andthen, and then, so during those
times, I would kind of just,like, keep my camera off for
meetings and I would get shitfor it.
Like, people would, even ifnobody, It was very rare that
(40:24):
people were like, you need tohave your camera on or like my
boss was ever telling me that.
But people kind of would belike, Jamie never has her camera
on or something like that.
And like, that bothered me thatpeople would say that because
like, they didn't know like whyI did that.
and that was the reason.
like, given sometimes the reasonwas I just don't, I don't want
(40:45):
you to see my face because Ihate everything right now.
And that's unrelated, but yeah,but when depressed, like.
It's so hard.
It's so hard to like, and that,that is so much energy.
To just And people think you'relazy for it, too.
They think you're fucking lazy,because just just get better.
(41:09):
Just be think positively, andlike, just go do just go do your
laundry.
Think positively.
Sure.
Okay.
Pray.
Yeah.
Yes.
Depression's very much likethat.
Marina said the toxicity of workbrings it down to like 60
percent every time I open up thelaptop.
Is that my new baseline?
Yeah, I remember from the job Ijust got laid off from.
(41:32):
I remember every week, so it waslike, you know, they talk about
the Sunday scaries.
My Sunday scaries were so bad.
I was just like, what's it gonnabe?
Because every Monday, it waslike, without a doubt, like
clockwork, every Monday I wouldcome in, some major thing was
changing, and mostly it wassomething that they had just
(41:52):
changed the week before, andit's like, okay, we're gonna
flip it again, and now we haveto change again, or we have to
like, switch it back, so undoall the work you did, and now do
all this new work, and like, itwas just so exhausting, And so,
like, every time I came in, I,like, I would just kind of,
like, brace myself and it wasawful.
Also, I'm looking at our fuckingoutline here and we're talking
(42:14):
about, like, I can't finishwork.
It's bullet points, you blahblah blah, and then it just
says, you need, and then no onefinished the sentence.
That was probably me.
I probably did that.
Were you talking about, like,managing your time better, too?
Like, when you're depressed?
Yeah, that's the thing peopleare like, oh, yeah.
Oh, yeah when people are like,oh just mean no That's even just
(42:35):
like just being burnt out if youtell someone you're burnt out,
right?
I have to tell you you gave methat advice and just put your
bunch put a bunch of shit in abig plastic tote and then Jamie
that has been a fucking gamesaver and like I have to thank
you for that.
Wait, where's your tote?
Where do you put your totes?
It's in my room.
Oh, okay.
I learned that, I learned thatfrom Domestic Blisters.
(42:56):
One tote.
Because like, oh, the geniusthing she does is when you're
like, It's like, it's kind oflike an ADHD hack, right, where
it's like you're getting allthis clutter in one spot, and
it's like, okay, I should putsomething here to collect this
clutter, and either that's whatI keep it in, or, like, collect
the clutter and then take thisbasket and, like, put it where
it belongs, like, once a week orwhenever.
(43:18):
so she does that.
She'll do that, like, on thebottom of the stairs.
I don't want to go downstairsand put this.
You just throw it in the basketand then you just bring it down
when you go down and then bringthe other one up when you go up
and For days, I can't doanything for burnout.
It's like, I know it's there andlike, it's okay.
(43:39):
And again, yeah, it's notmanaging your time better or
being lazy.
It's just, I don't have theenergy to do it.
So like, that's been brilliant.
So thank you genuinely.
Oh, you're so welcome.
I had no idea.
But yeah, that was I, I wasdomestic blistered.
And, that's one thing that Ilearned from her.
And some, like, that's still topof mind too, like, when I'm
cleaning, especially, aseverybody knows, I've been
(44:01):
working my way out of mydepression apartment, which is
going very well, actually,finally, but every time, like,
I'm like, all this stuff herethat, like, I haven't even seen
or gone through, like, inforever, and I'm like, okay, all
this, Piled up here.
What do I need?
Like, what sort of organizationsystem?
And that could be anything.
It doesn't have to be like, Idon't know, like, you don't need
(44:26):
a set of drawers for everything,or like a set of shelves for
everything.
Like, it can be something, like,totally different.
Like, I guess just like a catchall tray or something, because
like, you come home and youthrow all your mail and your
keys and everything on thetable, right?
Like, throw a little tray there,so it's there.
For me, like, And this is alsofor ADHD because I forget
(44:48):
things.
whenever I come home, I have,hooks right to the left of my
door where all my keys live.
And sometimes to my mask, likeI'll have my mask hanging there.
So like I have that there and Ijust like put them up there all
the time.
So, I love it.
Yeah, and you don't, you feelless shitty like on the days
(45:08):
where you're like, I just feellike shit all the time.
You don't feel like you'resurrounded by more.
You know what I mean?
So that's, it's been veryhelpful.
That's been great.
Do you notice how you feel?
I'm like, organization?
Like, I like, lit up.
I was like, yes, let's talkabout this.
(45:29):
I'm a very organized person.
My apartment's just a mess.
Like.
It's not as much of a mess rightnow because I've been doing
work.
I've been doing the work.
Your fridge did look reallynice.
Wait, were you judging me likeI'm not an organized person?
Have you seen my fucking pantryand my fridge?
(45:50):
And I know you.
I know we both try really hard.
We both try really, really,really hard.
I will Okay, now I'm gonna takepictures of all my organization
shit and send it to you.
I'm gonna send it to everyone.
I'm gonna put it on discord ashsays, same on the depression
apartment, Jamie.
Also my robot vacuum is still inits box.
So when Ash and I workedtogether, she got, I got a
(46:13):
Roomba and then she got aRoomba.
I feel like it may have evenbeen like, a year later, maybe
less, and she's like, oh, Ididn't set it up yet.
And I was like, oh, it's okay.
I was like, took me a while toset it up to, like, whatever.
And so, like, every, like, fewmonths, I'm an asshole, I guess,
and I would be like, oh, justcurious, just curious, just
(46:35):
curious, Ash, is your Roomba setup?
And she'd be like, I don't wantto talk about it.
And so we kept talking about it,and then, she still hadn't.
And when I got laid off, shestill hadn't, because I think we
mentioned it on our, one of ourlast one on ones.
Listen, Ash, Jamie was verybrave and did the Litter Robot,
and I was there on the day onthe phone.
(46:55):
She was like, I'm just gonna doit.
So just have, call us.
We will be on the phone with youso you can just get it done.
Yeah.
We'll support you in it.
My Litter Robot sat around formaybe a month?
Oh yeah, no, it was not, we'renot into years or multiple
months.
Yeah, but it was like maybe, ohyeah, I was just saying like I
think it was a month.
But then I told Ash recentlythat.
(47:17):
my robot mop that I got sat foralmost a year before I set it
up.
So I get it, I get it.
It's so, but it's also just likeout of sight, out of mind, cause
it's in a box pushed to theside, like I'm not thinking
about it, but what I did withthe litter robot is I set it
kind of like in the middle of myapartment and it's like the
(47:39):
hugest things.
So I had this huge box, thislitter robot in the middle of my
apartment.
And I told Rebecca, I don't knowif you remember this, but, When
I went to Phoenix, I had, like,cleaned my apartment up as best
I could, and I was like, I hadstarted using the Litter Robot
box as, like, a table, so Istarted stacking stuff up on it.
(48:02):
And, yeah, and so I looked atall that stuff stacked on it,
and I was like, I don't havetime to put this away, and I was
like, it's just, it's just gonnastay there.
So I even told my pet sitter,who is amazing, I love her so
much, use a coaster, you toldher, use a coaster before you
Where you put something on thetable.
Please make sure to clean up anymesses that you make while
you're here.
Can you imagine?
(48:23):
I should do that next time as ajoke.
She'll probably think it'sfunny.
let's go.
Let's go.
Let's bully Ash into getting herrobot.
that's why we Do you like yourrobot mop?
Elyssa wanted to know.
I do, but because I've haddepression apartment for so long
and I'm still working out of it,I, I, I'm not using it much
right now, but Ideally, I'llhave it set up so that it'll go,
(48:49):
because you can set it to goimmediately after your robot
vac.
So I'll have that set up like,whatever, like twice a week, or
once a week, or probably twice aweek, where it goes like right
after the bot and it mops.
Full disclosure, it is a highpain day, and I may or may not
have taken a painkiller beforethis, and The painkiller.
(49:10):
My brain literally went, I went,Oh, I hope her Roomba and mop
fall in love like a fucking highperson.
that was my thought is like, Ihope Jamie's mop robot and
Roomba robot fall in love.
So I'm hoping my cats fall inlove with them because my dream
is to have a cat that rides Yes,the Roomba around oh my god,
(49:34):
there's currently too much stuffin the way, like stuff is on the
box, but it's on my to do list,exactly, Ash, I get you, I get
you, I was there, but! And fulldisclosure, the cats have been
using the Litter Robot, like,they're pretty much using it
immediately.
I think it took them, like, oneweek to get fully acclimated,
and it's been weeks now.
(49:55):
And, I still haven't gotten ridof the old litter box, which
also includes, because it alsoincludes getting rid of a whole
enclosure that I had for the oldlitter box.
Which is a table, right?
It's like a, it's like one ofthose hidden boxes.
So like, I feel like I need toget a piece, see, now I'm, now
I'm just thinking about likeorganizing.
If, I just want to get a pieceof wood or something that I can
(50:15):
slide perfectly into that cubbyover the little robot and then I
can put the cat stuff on there.
Like make my own shelf,basically.
No, that'd be handy.
I don't know how to do that.
I don't either.
It sounds simple in my head.
I know, I'm like, yeah, thatsounds good, that piece of wood
into a shelf.
(50:36):
Maybe I'll make my dad figure itout, because my parents will be
here next week.
I'll make my dad figure it out.
Yes.
Daddy, I need a shelf.
Do a shelf, dad.
Thank you.
Just like, just the tools.
I'm like, I can't.
Dads love that.
They're like, oh, I'll get it.
No, they love to figure it out.
My dad loves that I have a toolbag that's full of tools and
(51:01):
that I have, I have this wholelittle Organization thing that I
made for all of my, like, screwsand nuts and bolts and nails and
everything.
And I have it all organized andI have all this stuff.
I'm like, I don't know, itpleases my father.
He's like, yeah, tools.
I'm like, alright, tools.
(51:23):
But anytime I, like, need to useone, I'm still like, what do I
do?
What is this?
Never mind.
Rob, Rob purposely, it's like,what do you need it for?
are you gonna put it back?
Cause he knows I'm gonna use itand then put it down somewhere
and fucking forget it.
(51:43):
So, what do you need it for?
Okay, I'll get it for you.
Cause he also knows I will leaveit open.
He should have an Apple AirTagjust for you.
That's like on, like hanging onthe toolbox or tool bag or
whatever.
And then anytime you take out atool, you have to attach it.
Rob, that's free.
That's free from me to you.
Free idea.
(52:05):
He got me ear tags forChristmas, a couple of years
ago, a year ago.
And you still never use them?
I don't, I don't know him.
Oh my God.
Rebecca.
Again, we try to be organized.
They're great.
It doesn't stick.
They're really great.
I do.
I want to get more.
I'm sure they are.
When I When I find them, I willuse the shit out of them.
(52:28):
Jesus Christ.
Manic says, as a dude, hellyeah, tools.
Yeah, I don't Yeah, it's a lot.
Just got tools Yeah, i'm lookingat our The time.
Your time policing No, i'mlooking at our outline.
I think we talked on insurancealready but we didn't really
(52:54):
talk about insurance, TBH.
higher premiums.
No, we talked about like higherpremiums if you don't get this
debt.
But yeah, okay, so medicines andall the stuff you do need to
cope with.
All of your chronic illnessesand or pain management is hella
expensive.
Yeah.
(53:14):
And even if you have insurance.
Even if you have insurance andwhen you don't, you are screwed.
I had a whole conversation onInstagram the other day about
ADHD meds with literally afriend of a friend that like,
we're very friendly onInstagram, but we really don't
know each other.
It's actually, one of Hanifa,Hanifa and Hanifa's friend.
but.
She was talking about how shewas right now having to pay out
(53:37):
of pocket for Vyvanse, which Ihave done, and that shit is like
500 a month.
It's 500 a month.
God damn it.
It's insane.
It's insane.
And so I was like, listen, thisis my experience.
I was like, I don't, I knoweverybody's different, and I
don't know what you've done orwhat you've tried, but like, I
(53:58):
tried Adderall early on, decidedit wasn't for me, went on
Vyvanse.
Then had to pay out of pocketfor Vyvanse and then was like,
oh, and then couldn't getVyvanse.
That's another thing, is therewas just shortage of, of ADHD
medication across the country.
yeah, it's So let me get thisstraight.
(54:19):
You have a problem, you can getmedication for it, and when you
do get medication for it, itcosts too much, but then they're
also out of it, so then you haveto keep feeling like shit, but
then it gets worse becauseyou're not medicated switching
back and forth and that's notgreat.
By the time you're on it, it'stoo fucking late.
And then they want to make it sodifficult for you to get it,
like, I know this is mongeringand I'm sorry, but that fucking
(54:45):
news about RFK being like, we'rejust gonna take, you know, just
take a look at thoseantidepressants and ADHD meds
and maybe send you to a wellnesscenter.
I swear to fucking God.
that's, that's the thing thatactually kind of makes me laugh
because I'm like, it's horrible.
Yes.
But I'm just saying, like, thepart of me that's just like,
you're going to take a bunch ofpeople that are extremely
unwell, that need this tofunction, and some of us not
(55:09):
murder people, and take thataway.
But, hey, there's always a firsttime if I am walking around
suddenly unmedicated.
Good luck.
You never know.
Good luck, buddy.
God.
God.
They will pry it from my coldfucking dead hands.
Yeah, I think that's kind oflike I already feel like shit.
(55:30):
I don't want to be in this worldfeeling even more like shit
Yeah, it's it's miserable whenyou have chronic stuff to deal
with Especially yeah, miserableperiod but especially when it's
invisible and people are likeit's also Another reason that I
(55:51):
always, maybe I'm just toopositive sometimes, but I do
always just have, I have, youknow me, like I'm, I always
think, you never know, I alwayssay I try to put myself in the
other person's shoes, and younever know what the other
person's going through.
And to an extent, that's likepart of what that is too, is
(56:14):
like, They could be goingthrough a really bad spell of
depression.
They could have chronic painthat I don't know about and it's
a bad pain day.
Or like, maybe they haven't beenable to get the meds they need
to deal with X thing.
And so like, whatever.
And I know that doesn't excusepeople being dicks and assholes.
It definitely does not.
But I think sometimes I alwaysjust think that in my head
(56:36):
because I've been there.
I agree with Ash.
Ash is like, maybe this is whatstarts the revolution.
Give a bunch of unmedicated ADHDpeople a hyperfixation.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.
They're fucked.
That's what we need.
The government is fucked.
Yep.
Yep.
Very true.
All right, guys.
Focus your rage at that onething.
(57:00):
Viva la Neurodivergent rerevolution Seriously.
I love feeling like shit andthen living in fear that they're
gonna take away the stuff thatmakes things a little bit
better, I think.
really that's the point.
The point is they want us tolive in fear.
(57:22):
Oh, control.
Yeah.
Please.
I could talk for another fuckinghour about this.
Thanks for hanging in there withus, and, yeah, we'll see you
next week thank you all so much,take care of yourselves, and
remember to take days off workwhen you're sick, and just when
you need to.
The Burnout Collective is hosted by me, Jamie Young.
Rebecca (57:43):
And me, Rebecca McCracken.
You can find all our episodes,plus show notes, at
burnoutcollective.
com.
Jamie (57:49):
Follow the discord link on our website to join the
burnout community.
You can also find us on TikTokand Instagram.
Rebecca (57:56):
If you're interested in being a guest on a future
episode or have questions orfeedback.
You can email us at podcast atburnout collective.
com.
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