August 30, 2023 • 42 mins
Ever wondered how the magic of writing works? Have you tried to understand the science behind creativity? Join us as we unravel these mysteries with Kim Kiel, an experienced copy coach, direct response strategist, and the brains behind the boutique copywriting agency, Kim Kiel Copy. Kim's journey from childhood passion to a rewarding career is a story that will inspire all budding writers. She's discovered her creative flow through an unusual mix of cleaning the house, blasting music, and a great deal of scientific reading.
Are you lost when it comes to organizing your creative projects? Kim talks about her struggles with writer's block and how she found her way through it. One of her secrets is a simple Google spreadsheet that keeps her work in check. The conversation takes an interesting turn as we discuss the value of effective communication and writing across all disciplines. We promise you'll walk away with powerful insights on how to structure your creative processes for better productivity.
Kim's journey is not just about finding her creative flow; it's about setting goals and achieving them. She shares how shifting her focus from financial growth to tripling program enrollment transformed her energy and perspective. We also dive into the art of trusting your own ideas and making them a reality. And if you're seeking for some inspiration to unleash your creative potential, wait till you hear about Kim's 'copy cookbook' journal. It's about writing with punchy humor, going beyond the formula, and most importantly, it's about taking action. So tune in and let’s bring those ideas to life.
Mentioned in this Episode:
- Ill Communication Podcast: www.kimkiel.com/podcast
- Kim's Magnetic Copy Checklist - super quick, simple changes to make to your copy to make it more readable, more enjoyable, and generate more sales: www.kimkiel.com/magnetic
- Sign up for Amber's Life & Business Transformation Suite
Connect with Amber Annette:
Connect with Amber Annette:
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Amber Annette (00:02):
Welcome to the Business Psychic Podcast, the
show that helps you ignite yoursoul's purpose, turn up your
creativity and activate salesand marketing magic.
I'm your host, amber Annette,and I'm thrilled to be here with
you today to explore the depthof what it means to be a woman
in business.
I believe that business is morethan just making money.
It's about making a differenceand making your mark.
(00:24):
So sit back, get present andlet's dive in and uncover the
secrets to building a businesswith soul, purpose and magic.
Welcome back to another episodeof the Business Psychic.
I'm Amber Annette, I'm yourhost and, as usual, I am beyond
thrilled to introduce to youtoday's guest, the fabulous Kim
(00:49):
Keele.
Kim Keele is a copy coach,direct response strategist and
founder of the boutiquecopywriting agency Kim Keele
Copy.
With over 15 years of writingmulti-six figure campaigns for
small businesses and nonprofits,kim helps Gen X entrepreneurs
and experts share their giftsand positive impact with the
world.
She has a knack for instantlycapturing a client's voice and
(01:12):
writing elegantly persuasivecopy.
When she's not nerding out onsale psychology in her home of
Edmonton, alberta, you can findher tromping through the
Canadian wilderness with herkids or continuing her quest to
find her favorite whiskey Tofind out more about Kim and
copywriting, I encourage you toturn into her podcast Ill
(01:33):
Communication on your FavePlayer or at kimkeelcom forward
slash podcast.
Kim, I freaking love readingyour bio and I'm so thrilled to
have you here and to introduceyou and all of your magic to my
audience.
Welcome.
Kim Kiel (01:49):
Oh, Amber, I am so excited to be here as well.
I am a fan girl and yeah, I'mready, I'm ready Like it's gonna
be magic.
Amber Annette (01:56):
I'm feeling it.
So let's just for my audience.
I don't know if my listenersknow this or not, but I am
obsessed with writing and ourconnection, whether it be
through our friendship.
We have working together in mymastermind like we've worked
together for a few years now.
You know how much I lovewriting and that has just been a
(02:17):
common thread to ourrelationship.
But I really wanna go deep intoall kinds of aspects of writing
today the creative process ofwriting, the sales process of
writing and, of course, myfavorite, the intuitive process
of writing.
So I'm so excited to have youhere.
We'll just kind of share withus.
So how did you, like alwaysknow we wanted to be a writer?
(02:37):
Did it just come to you laterin life?
Share that part of the storyTake us there.
Kim Kiel (02:42):
I think writing has always been a part of who I am.
From a little girl, I was likewriting little vignettes in my
head.
I was writing little songs.
I was creating little dances,like choreographing little
dances that I would give to myfamily, you know, on Friday
nights, force them to sit downand watch that.
Through junior, high and highschool I was, you know, the
(03:06):
emotional poetry writer, writingmy own songs, and you know,
like that's kind of who I wasgrowing up.
When I went into university Ireally wanted to combine, like I
also really love the sciences,I loved that logical, methodical
, scientific method, I lovedfiguring things out, and so I
(03:29):
really wanted to be able toblend these two sides of me,
this very scientific, analyticalside, with this very creative
ability to create and share andcommunicate.
But nothing like that wasactually available at the
university that I was attending,so I had to get special
permission to studyenvironmental sciences and minor
(03:54):
in communications, because howare we gonna solve the climate
crisis, the environmental lossof biodiversity, unless we can
actually communicate it withpeople about why it's a problem,
what we can do to solve it?
And so I actually had to writea very persuasive letter to be
(04:14):
able to take this verycustomized degree program.
And when the faculty receivedmy letter they were like well,
if you can write that greatpersuasive letter, you should
totally be in communications.
So that was sort of where Ireally created more of a
practice around writing andunderstanding communications and
(04:36):
interpersonal communicationsand the art of nonfiction
writing.
So that is sort of more whereI've studied is in nonfiction.
I'm not much of a creativewriter anymore.
Amber Annette (04:48):
Oh, every If it was there once.
It's still there, I bet.
Kim Kiel (04:51):
Well, it's still there .
I don't know the last time Isat down to write a little song
or something like that at thepiano was, so it's been a while.
Amber Annette (04:59):
So you might know this, but not too many people
know this.
I write really sappy countrymusic lyrics.
And I'm telling you there, Iswear, like some of the songs
I've wrote are like Taylor Swiftworthy, I'm not kidding you.
They are like really, reallygood.
And here's the thing about itthough I'm not doing it to like
(05:21):
make money from it Like thatpart of the creativity in me,
though it sparks other aspectsof me.
It brings in ideas fordifferent I don't know offers
inside of my business or contentI want to create for my
business.
So I'm just curious do you havethings like that that happen
for you, where you're like maybewriting for yourself or your
(05:42):
journaling, and then stuffstarts to come in for, like your
copywriting?
Kim Kiel (05:47):
Not so much on the writing side of things, if I'll
sit down at the piano every oncein a while and I'll just kind
of like bang out some TaylorSwift tunes and, you know,
cheryl Crowe, you know.
But for me where I get someflow and some ideas is when I'm
cleaning my house and I stick myheadphones on and I'm blasting
(06:10):
music and like literally singingat Beastie Voice for Sure Queen
, Herbie, Taylor Swift, Lizzoand I'm like, I am literally
like belting it out at the topof my lungs.
My family, like it's not theirfavorite time at all, but this
is where I like tap into my souland that's where I feel in flow
(06:32):
.
And it doesn't necessarilyhappen immediately, but I just
need those regular hits of likebelting out music, tapping into
that inner performer.
That's where things come in forme.
And when I'm walking, like whenI go for a nature walk, that's
when I sometimes get some greatideas for content for myself or
even for my clients.
Amber Annette (06:54):
Yeah, I, I mean, I think I call them writing
rituals.
You know, for myself, like Icall mine coffee with the
universe.
You know, when I write thoselike creative song lyrics, like
you know, when I'm going out andI'm moving my body, when I'm
going for a walk, it's thosetimes where it's like we're just
in a space of non-resistancethat the universe can bring to
(07:14):
us those ideas.
And you know my belief ideasequal income.
And when you're a copywriter,for sure, ideas equal income,
because you have to turn thoseideas into just a beautiful
piece of copy which you wouldyou do.
So Kind of share with us alittle bit how you write.
You know how you, how you'vegone from writing that paper to
(07:34):
now writing sales copy forambitious women.
I mean, I guess you have somemen that are clients to you,
what you don't just work withwomen but how have you taken
that and turned this into suchan incredible, successful
copywriting business?
Kim Kiel (07:50):
Well, I think I have always infused those two sides
of me, so there's that veryresearch focused, very
analytical nerd.
So when I'm working with myclients, the very first phase of
that is always on researchdeeply researching their clients
and customers, deeplyresearching their offer, looking
(08:14):
through other testimonials,looking what else is going on in
the landscape, and thenbreaking down all of that data
into different themes or bucketsof objections, dreams, desires,
hesitations, problems, wishes,like, so that I know what is
going on in the ideal buyer tolead them through that journey.
(08:34):
And then I also love pairingall of that research with a
framework or a formula or a copyrecipe.
I really love cooking and Ilove cookbook.
So following a recipe reallyworks for me because Sometimes
when you sit down, when you'recreative, you have so many ideas
that are coming All the timeand you like, oh, that's a
(08:57):
really great idea and oh, that'swhen I need to write about this
.
But when I start with theframework, that gives me the
guidance for what to say first,the next, the next, the next.
It allows me to constrain thatcreativity and within those
individual sections then I canreally Expand my creativity,
like it's.
It's such a weird thing, butthat that constraint helps me
(09:20):
hone my creativity?
Uh, so that I can find theright words and match that data
with the right framework andthen with that sort of creative,
intuitive, creative sauce thatI bring to the table.
Amber Annette (09:35):
I find, if I find anybody's creative process
fascinating, I mean I amextremely like I have like
creative ADHD, like I have, andwhen I can get into one of my
zones, I mean the post-it notesare flying, like there's gel
pens everywhere, I've probablygot some like tarot cards going,
I've got notebooks all over theplace and I have this creative
(09:58):
frenzy.
That happens, you know, and itcan be overwhelming at that
point to then take all of thatmagic that is in Google docs and
on napkins and on post-it notesand pull it all together to
turn it into A piece of copy ora programmer.
So how do you get organized,like, how do you take and I know
so many Other entrepreneursthat kind of feel this way, they
(10:20):
have all this great stuff, theyhave Google docs, all the
things how you pull thattogether and really start to put
structure and stay organizedwith?
Kim Kiel (10:28):
that.
So for me I just use a goodold-fashioned Google spreadsheet
, like I have a master documentfor every client and for myself
that has customer interviews,that has all of the online
research that I've done for them, that has testimonials and
quotes all built in so that Ican, as I start to, when
(10:51):
everything is all in that oneplace, then I can start to see
some of the repeating patternsand the themes that come up that
people are saying about whenthey work with you, and then I
can also just easily search,search a term, so say, something
that keeps coming up is oh soand so helps me break through
barriers or something like that,just as a weak example.
(11:12):
Then I can actually searchbreaking barriers In the entire
spreadsheet and anytime thatthat comes up, now I have like a
customer testimonial or I havedirect voice of customer that I
can weave into the copy.
So I just use a basicspreadsheet where I copy paste
everything.
Other copywriters I know uselike snippets or Evernote or
(11:34):
like air table or different verysophisticated Programs, but for
me it's just a simple Googlesheet.
That's how I keep it organized.
Amber Annette (11:42):
I and I've tried all of those, every single one
you just named, and honestly, Ithink it is just finding the
creative process that works foryou, that's.
Kim Kiel (11:51):
and yet I'm still like I love hearing about other
people, you know you, just it's,it's always fascinating to me,
the best system I've always saidthe best system is the one that
you will follow and you will doso like.
Don't overthink it, don't thinkyou need to be following what
all the gurus say.
If you're a pen and paper, ifyou have a notebook for every
single project that you have,then do that.
(12:12):
If you like a whiteboard, dothat, but like whatever is your
way of being, just trust thatthat's the right way for you.
Amber Annette (12:21):
So, in talking about this, how structured do
you get with your writing?
You know, I mean, I thinkthere's this common term that
we've all probably heard, whichis like writer's block.
You know, like, and whetheryou're writing a book, or
writing copy or content orwhatever it might be, whatever
the project is that's in frontof you, I think we do all
(12:43):
experience a form of writer'sblock.
How do you navigate when thatlittle bugger shows up?
Kim Kiel (12:53):
That, honestly, the best thing for me is a timeline.
So if I'm procrastinating or Ihave this writer's block, once I
see that deadline, suddenly mywriter's block goes away, like I
can sit down and I can writethe hell out of anything.
(13:13):
But again, if I do this, even inmy own business, if I'm like I
need to create a podcast, whatshould I do a podcast episode on
, and I'll just look through mycollection of writing prompts
and I'll just pick one and I'lljust just decide okay, I'm just
going to follow that and I justsit down and I write it.
Maybe that'll actually inspiresomething different, but it's.
(13:34):
It's seriously just sittingdown and writing, either with a
framework or a formula, justgetting out of my own way.
And sometimes you don't startat the top of the page but you
start at the FAQ section, or youstart at the, at the offer
section, or you start at theabout me section, like if
there's an area that I know Ican, if I can figure out the
(13:55):
hook for some sales page, I'llgo to a section that I can write
and then I'll eventually goback and and write that.
Amber Annette (14:03):
And I mean, if you think about it, I didn't
realize for sure when I firststarted my business 10 years ago
what an interval piece tosuccess writing would have on my
business, and especially in theonline I mean, I can't even say
especially in online, so I sentany space and business.
Right now, I mean, especiallyif you're an entrepreneur or a
(14:24):
solo per newer, you know you'retrying to like, do all of the
things right.
You got your website copy, yougot email marketing, you have
social.
I mean the you need to createoffers, I mean just even just
regular communication with yourclients, ongoing or prospects,
or it is probably the mostimportant aspect, in my opinion,
(14:47):
of being an entrepreneur.
Kim Kiel (14:51):
I 100% agree and I think I think writing and
communication is underappreciated.
In every career or discipline,whether you're an corporate or
not, as an entrepreneur orwithin within a business, you
need to be able to communicateeffectively with your teammates,
(15:11):
with your internal team, withyour stakeholders, with your
direct clients.
Once they become come yourclients, how are you welcoming
them and indoctrinating them andonboarding them into your
business or to your offer?
Amber Annette (15:22):
like there is so much writing, and I think that's
one of the things that Ilearned from you inside of your
joy with copy club the copy clubthat I was in with you your
monthly container is that alsosetting aside some designated
space to be with your ownwriting, to be with those
(15:44):
projects that need to be at apoint of completion, to connect
your message and your writingwith your bigger vision and to
always be coming back to that.
I'm curious how do you maketime for your own writing?
I mean, since you're writingfor all of these you know
business owners andentrepreneurs and you have a
(16:04):
beautiful raster of clients howdo you make time to do your own
stuff?
Kim Kiel (16:10):
I know that story about the cobblers kid like that
is definitely a challenge thatI have and yeah, what.
One of the things I love aboutthe copy club is that it gives a
two hour window every weekwhere people can sort of park
that in their calendar and andsay, okay, there's nothing else
this week.
I at least have those two hourswhere I can get some writing
(16:31):
done.
Often I'm doing my own writingduring those two hour sessions
as well, so I have that in mind.
The other thing that I have doneis for my podcast.
I'm working with a podcastproducer, so I have a deadline
that I need to get stuff over toher and her team in order to do
all the things that they dowith it.
(16:51):
So that kind of forces me atleast on Fridays, I've got to
sit down and create that content.
If I, if I've had a great weekand I can get to the recording
of it a little bit sooner, maybeI do that, but I really don't
have a great practice.
I advise other people to createa great practice, but I myself
do not have that and I'm reallymore of a fly by the seat of my
(17:14):
pants.
Wait for the inspiration, trustthat and bang that email out
right then and there.
Amber Annette (17:21):
Well, that is a process.
Yeah, if you think about it,that is a process.
That's, even if it's even ifit's yours and it's unique, it's
still your process and Ipersonally, like that.
I'm like my palms are sweatingthinking about these deadlines
that you have.
Like like if I had a deadlinethat was like sitting out there,
(17:41):
like that it might do the exactopposite to me where you're
like, it inspires you you know,totally inspires me.
Kim Kiel (17:48):
If I, if someone's like, oh well, just get to get
it to me anytime, I'll be like,but then I'm never going to do
it, it's never going to happen.
So I need a deadline.
Amber Annette (17:58):
I think it's.
I mean, I just find everybodyis, like I said, like their own
process.
So just intriguing to me justthe way that we all operate so
differently.
It's just, it's justfascinating to me so.
Kim Kiel (18:11):
I think one of the biggest lessons I've had to
learn over my few years of beingan entrepreneur is not to feel
bad about it like you do, you, Ido, I like there's so much out
there in the media like you haveto do morning pages and you
have to do evening pages and youhave to do it at 5am to write
(18:31):
your book, and you have to dothis and you have to do that.
And I was feeling really badthat I wasn't like that, that I
didn't have that proper daily orweekly writing practice.
And I was very first severallike months, like 18 months, I
didn't email my list at allbecause I thought I have to do
(18:53):
it perfectly or else I can't doit.
And it wasn't until I gavemyself the freedom to just play
and experiment and to like if anidea came in and I said this
could be an email instead of.
You know well, I'll have towrite that when I sit down and
write my emails.
I just decided when that emailcut, when that idea comes in,
I'm going to write about it andsend it off.
(19:14):
Yeah, doesn't have to be on aschedule, it doesn't have to be
at a certain time of day orcertain time of week.
It was just more important forme to get that message out and
it that process served me sobeautifully and just taking that
pressure off and trusting thatI can do it my way and it'll be
okay.
Amber Annette (19:33):
So this is sparking something with me that
I haven't.
I've shared it with you,because the idea, this idea kind
of came to me through workingwith you inside of the copy club
.
But I restructured how I setgoals for myself based off of
what I love, which is like copycontent, writing marketing,
(19:57):
emails, whatever you want to sayright, like how we whatever I
mean they're, they're they'reall a little bit different, but
I'll kind of we've done to one.
So normally, and for the last10 years in business and then
before that and in any type ofprofessional role I ever played,
we would set goals based off ofthe month you know, like you
(20:20):
know.
So let's bring it all the wayto like right now, you know Like
I want a 25K month or it's, youknow, these like income base
months.
Or I want a seven figurebusiness, or like right, and
don't get me wrong, I've hadgreat success with having some
goals set like that.
But I had a block recently andI'm talking just about up until
(20:41):
April of this year where thatjust was not inspiring me to set
goals like that.
I freaking got to this placewhere I was like, oh wait, I'm
just coming up with thisarbitrary number because it's a
new month.
This is stupid.
I'm not doing this anymore.
And what came to me in thatmoment was what do I love?
I love writing, I love content,I love connecting with my
(21:02):
audience, I love inspiring,driving, moving and motivating.
And I started setting goalsbased around my content and not
even just goals, kim, butbeliefs that every time I post
to social media, every time Iwrite my heart out to my email
list, I receive money and I amabsolutely gonna like.
(21:28):
I am blown away by how muchmore sales I have done and come
I have created since I attachedmy goal to my message.
I would love to hear what youthink about that.
Kim Kiel (21:42):
I think that's a missing piece.
I know for my own self when Ifound myself holding back or
being in a block.
It's when people reframe it andsort of put it in the
perspective of but somebodyneeds your help, like somebody
is looking for you and if you'renot sharing your message you're
(22:06):
getting it out there.
You're not helping people.
And I think for me I haven'tcreated those beliefs that you
have around, like every time Ishare a social post or every
time I send an email I makemoney.
But I think that that is like agolden ticket right there to
just believe that yeah, when Ipress send, it's gonna create
(22:29):
that connection, create thatopportunity and that bridge to
make some money.
So I love that.
Amber Annette (22:35):
Yeah, I mean, and it's a belief that I started
with, it wasn't super strong,but now that I've been at this
for about three months, like ohmy gosh, it is a belief that I
want to continue to believedeeper in.
I mean, it's just beenabsolutely incredible.
So I think, too, just like youcan establish new beliefs, new
(22:55):
beliefs about your message, newbeliefs about your purpose, and
I'm just wondering, like foryourself, like how do you create
goals then around?
Like I mean, I know you saidyou need timelines, but like,
tell me a little bit about, like, goal setting and like how do
you connect it to copy and yourbusiness and all of it.
Kim Kiel (23:18):
So I do like a money goal, but I don't.
I'm motivated by money, becausethere are really beautiful
things that I want to be able todo with money with my family
and for my community.
But when I shifted from havinglike a financial goal for the
Joy of Copy Club to saying Iwant to triple copy club, I want
(23:41):
to triple the enrollment, likethat gave me a totally different
energy.
That gave me new focus and itwas almost like the money
pressure was off and you canplay more with.
What does that actually mean?
To triple the enrollment inyour program and how can you
bring people in?
How can you invite people in?
(24:01):
And it just made me feel a lotmore playful, made me like, feel
less tied to like this is whatit is, it's this, these are the
boundaries for this offer, andit makes me have a little bit
more expansion and spaciousnessto be able to be like oh well,
this is a nonprofit person who'scoming to me.
Maybe this, the entrepreneurialpackage, doesn't work for them,
(24:24):
so let me create a beautifuloffer that's gonna appeal to
that nonprofit person.
Suddenly now I have anotherenrollment in the copy club, so
I'm one step closer to triplingthat enrollment.
So I think it's more of the forme, the impact goal.
That is more motivating to methan having a financial goal.
I do have financial goals, butI would say, yeah, having a goal
(24:46):
like I'm gonna get two newwebsite copy clients or I'm
gonna get two new voice guideclients, those are way more
motivating for me.
I just think they just feelmore tangible.
Amber Annette (24:56):
Yeah, I think it's interesting.
The more my income is tied tomy inspiration, the more
inspired I am.
You know, I think that's prettyinteresting for sure.
So I mean, we talked about kindof a variety of things with
writing.
Here I do wanna talk a littlebit about what does following?
(25:16):
You know you have theseformulas and you have kind of
some copy rules that you love tofollow for yourself because you
know they give you a return onyour inspiration and a return on
you know that your clients wanttheir return for clients and
for sales.
But what about your intuition?
What if your intuition istelling you man, I just don't
(25:41):
feel like this formula is gonnawork for some reason.
Like, how do you balanceformulas with your intuition,
that analytical side, with thatintuitive side?
Kim Kiel (25:51):
That's a great question, anna.
I don't know that I have agreat answer, because I think
that with any creative process,you know, you know your color.
If I was an artist I would knowokay, well, this is how you
make a certain shape or anobject, this is how you assign
colors or choose your colors.
But then there's that alsomoment of magic where you just
(26:12):
let your gift express itself.
And I would say that the sameis true when I'm sitting down to
write copy for myself and myclients.
I've got all the information,I've done all the practice, I
know how the flow is supposed togo, and so I follow the
framework.
But I also give myselfpermission to color outside of
the lines, and often it willcome in the form of like a hook
(26:38):
or something that I see in theresearch.
That will just stand out to meand I'll be like ooh, that's
juicy and it's.
I've tried to explain how I findthose hooks and it's.
It's nothing that I can reallyteach somebody.
It's just the more you do it,the more you get that like ooh,
you feel it, you call it truthbumps, like you might get the
(27:00):
shivers, you might get the ooh,you might be like ooh, that's
good.
You know, when you read areally great line in a book and
you're like, ooh, I love that.
It's kind of that feeling.
So when I have those moments,either when I'm writing or when
I'm researching, those are whatI'm looking for and I I allow
myself to do it imperfectly andto not follow the framework.
(27:21):
But I will start with theframework.
Amber Annette (27:24):
Mm, the framework leads to that magic.
Yeah, it totally does.
Yeah, well, I think that waslike I disagree with you.
I think that was a great answer.
So, to start with, like thatwas, you kind of nailed it
Absolutely.
So anything else, if you, youknow, one of the questions that
I always, you know, like to ask,you know, especially, you know
(27:45):
strong women and businessleaders like you is you know, if
you had to give any piece ofadvice to our listeners about
their writing or creatingcontent or inspired messages
like what, what would be yourtruth bump that you could give
to somebody?
Kim Kiel (28:03):
I think for me, and especially because I'm talking
with you, someone who is anintuitive, a psychic and who has
brilliant marketing ideas onlike it's like you have, the
faucet is always on full boardfor you I used to have a lot of
pressure and feel really badabout myself that I wasn't
getting a divine download Like Iwas waiting for, like this
(28:26):
thunderbolt, or I was waitingfor a voice, or I was waiting
like everyone talks about.
Oh, I had this divine download.
I had this, this downloaded forme the other day.
This whole offer suite came tome and I and I was like, why am
I not having those?
And I realized for me it's awhisper, it is an idea, an idea
(28:46):
will come to me and I'll thinkthat's a great idea.
And I had to really trainmyself not to push the idea away
but to trust the idea, to trustthat that idea came to me and
that that was my download.
It wasn't a download at all.
It was like a little blink.
A little idea came into my mind.
I started to learn that thoselittle blinks and winks and
(29:10):
whispers are my downloads.
They're just not these big like.
Oh you know, nothing is likethe sky.
Amber Annette (29:17):
Not a big, booming voice from God, not a
big, booming voice.
Kim Kiel (29:19):
It's not what I imagined.
Every all these other peoplesaying, oh, I had a divine
download, no, it was just abeautiful idea and I took action
on it.
Yeah, so just trust.
Trust your ideas, becausethey're coming to you for a
reason.
Amber Annette (29:35):
And so that, sister.
Well, thank you, this was great,and of course it wouldn't be an
episode of the business psychicwithout giving you a business,
reading and then, of course,asking you my favorite question
that I get to ask all of myguests at the end here.
Okay, so I just found out youhave been listening to my
(29:57):
podcast that have been stopping.
I have from that questionbecause you wanted to be
surprised.
So, yeah, that is my mostfavorite ever.
I'm super excited that youdon't know what question I'm
going to ask you and I don'tknow a little bit more magical.
So I'm just a nerd that way.
Well, let me tap in here for asecond and see what kind of can
start to come through for just amaybe a quick, quick and dirty
(30:20):
little reading here for yourbusiness, for the rest of the
rest of 2023.
We're in July right now.
Okay, so the first thing thatcomes to me is the word revamp,
and I personally have thisproduct from you.
It is the joy of copy cards andthese cards are freaking
amazing.
You pull a card, gives you acopy prompt, it gives you a
(30:42):
formula, all the things youtalked about here and I love
them.
But something is telling me thatyou're going to be either a
revamping them or relaunchingthem, and that is fantastic is
what I'm hearing.
So that's the first.
One feels like maybe you'rejust changing the format a
little bit or tweaking something.
That tweak is going to make abig difference.
I truly legitimately see theseon the shelf that Barnes and
(31:05):
Noble.
I need you to know that they'regoing to be there.
I'm like covered in truth bumpsfor you when I deliver that to
you.
So please know, whatever changeyou're making, or if you're, if
you're not in the middle ofmaking a change, whatever ideas
you've had to make the changesto those cards Kim is going to
be, with no pun intended, theright recipe.
And copy catalyst keeps comingto me and I feel like this could
(31:34):
maybe be a new session, a newoffer.
It just feels to me like whatyou have is working, the offers
you have, the private clientsare taking the copy club, which
I so enjoy being a part of, butthis just feels like something
that's a little bit more on themindset side of copy and maybe
it's like a quick you know likeeven be.
(31:57):
Oh, I like that.
I'm hearing this could evenactually be like a lead magnet
it's and it feels like themindset side of copy, the
mindset side of writing, the.
There's something in that spacefor you that I feel like you
haven't really showcasedyourself as also activating
(32:17):
women to actually just do thedamn thing, holding women
accountable to.
You know the message that theysaid they want to put in the
world.
There's something about this,about you being in that word.
Catalyst is coming in reallystrong around that.
I also feel like I get thisimage yeah, I get this image of
(32:43):
you.
It feels like almost givingyourself a solo retreat
somewhere and I know this mightsound weird, but I get the
picture, this like picture ofyou with like a quill pen, like
an actual feather pen, and thislike cool notebook that you
(33:07):
start to write in a way that youhave not wrote before, and it
does to me feel like it couldstart off with I don't want to
say fictional, but like it leadsto something deeper.
It leads to a deeper level ofwriting than you have done
(33:29):
before and that to me feels likewhat's next for you.
I feel as gifted as you are andas talented as you are.
The universe wants you to knowin this moment that you've
really just kind of scratchedthe surface of your writing and
that you've kind of been playingit safe and simple with
copywriting and there's justmore that wants to emerge and
(33:49):
there's something about thislike solo space and there's
something unique about this penand just like a different way
than you've ever wrote beforethat inspires ways of writing
that you've never wrote before.
Kim Kiel (34:03):
Very cool, I will look for that and do it.
I mean, we've worked togetherfor a few years, amber, and I
know that you often have theidea way before I'm willing to
see it and way before I'm readyto implement.
But so often many of thosebeautiful ideas that you shared
(34:25):
with me months earlier than itwould a few months later then
I'd be like, oh hey, this iswhat I'm doing.
You'd be like I told you to dothat three months ago, so I
trust you.
Amber Annette (34:36):
Yes, and you know , everybody needs to take action
in their own time.
I just love it when I get tosay I told you so.
So I'm very excited to see whatcomes from these few things.
Do you have any questions oranything you want me to tap into
?
Kim Kiel (34:54):
You know what?
I just think it's neat that youpicked up on the revamping, the
copy recipe cards, because Ihave had preliminary questions,
conversations with the designerwho helped me with those to make
it more accessible so that itcan be.
Amber Annette (35:13):
Also, I really do , as you said, that I just got
the flash image of like ajournal or some type of like
workbook that could accompanysome type of the joy of copy
journal.
Kim Kiel (35:29):
Yeah, yeah, I'm like building your own sort of copy
cookbook where you have likethese are the essential
ingredients for your messaging,like how to how to flesh out
your messaging, and it becomesyour playbook or your master.
Amber Annette (35:46):
I even get like content, content, ingredients,
you know that are connected topurpose, like I can.
This is happening, it's prettytangible, it's like pretty, I
can see it pretty clearly.
This vision is pretty strongfor you, so I think you should
just, I think you should just goahead and create the copy of
the joy of copy journal.
Okay, have that being acompanion piece.
(36:08):
Please.
Love it.
All right, are you ready for myfavorite question that I get to
ask everybody?
Yeah, if you could connect toanybody in spirit and receive a
message from them, who would itbe?
And I'm talking, it can beabsolutely anybody.
(36:32):
It can be a past loved one, itcould be a celebrity, anybody
that you, that is past and is inspirit, that you would love to
receive a message from.
Kim Kiel (36:50):
What comes to my mind is I would love to hear a
message from my favorite author,Jane Austen.
Amber Annette (37:03):
I don't know Jane Austen, but I get a punchy
humor from her.
Would that match herpersonality?
Kim Kiel (37:11):
It would definitely match her style of writing, okay
.
Amber Annette (37:15):
So I'm connected to that energy.
And what's interesting is shesays that she's been whispering
in my ear some of these ideasfor you, some of some of the
message behind you have justscratched the surface, and she's
inviting you to go deeper.
(37:39):
She's inviting you to reallysay what you want to say,
because it feels like you'reholding back, you're following
the formula too often, and shesays, instead of following the
(38:03):
feather I'm not sure what thatmeans Instead of she's showing
me this like feather floatingthrough the air, which is really
interesting because I connectthat back to that image almost
of like that quill pen for you.
And so she's saying, also, whenyou want to be connected and
(38:24):
when you want to be inspired towatch for this feather from her,
look, it's just a, it's a verycool image.
She says you'll know it whenyou see it's like a, it's almost
got like a hint of oh yes,you're this like blue.
She shows me like almost like ablue and a brown hint to this
feather and she's saying your,her words are yours, gifted as
(38:48):
she, but you're not.
You're just not allowing yourgift and you're not allowing.
You're not allowing always thewriting you want to write to get
shared with the world and shesays it's time and she puts and
(39:12):
she shows me a lamp post andI've never had a.
I've never had spirit show me alamp post before.
So this is a new image for me.
And she's showing me this lamppost and in some ways I feel
like it's like a line in thesand and yet it's a lamp post.
So we'll have to decipher whatthat means from her.
Maybe you know what that meansor maybe that's something she
(39:35):
says your lamp post is what somepeople would call a lighthouse,
but your image is a lamp postwhat comes up for you.
Kim Kiel (39:46):
With that, I mean, as soon as you mentioned the
feather, I immediately thoughtof the quill pen, because that
is, and even when you mentionedpreviously the quill pan, I was
like, oh well, that's how likeold, old authors would have been
writing their, their stories.
Amber Annette (40:05):
So is she an older author.
Kim Kiel (40:06):
I she's like, she's like the 1800s yeah.
Amber Annette (40:12):
Like the lamp post.
Kim Kiel (40:14):
I mean it makes total, it makes total sense to me, oh
my gosh, kim.
I'm covered in tree bumps and Ihave been seeing feathers all
over the place for the lastcouple of months, like it's been
crazy yeah.
Amber Annette (40:28):
So you can't make this up.
Kim Kiel (40:30):
I know, I know it's beautiful and I it makes me
excited to want to not writeabout copy necessarily.
Amber Annette (40:44):
Yeah yeah, that was.
That was the energy I wasfeeling to like and I know you
said like I never write fictionand it doesn't feel like fiction
, and yet there's a magic to it.
There's something more aboutthe magic of writing versus just
the copy.
Yeah, and I can't wait to seeit come from you.
Kim Kiel (41:06):
I mean, I'm gonna watch for it in about six to 12
months.
That's our track record.
Amber Annette (41:11):
it takes you a little bit.
Well, hopefully this willactivate more.
So, kim, thank you so much forbeing on the podcast.
It was one of my favoriteepisodes so far.
I know our audience is going toabsolutely love this and love
you.
I've got all kinds of notes inor all kinds of ways to connect
with you in the podcast shownotes here, including just going
(41:34):
to your website, kim keel K I MK I E L com.
And until next time to myaudience, go be in your magic.
Thank you so much for listening.
This is Amber and that I'm thebusiness psychic.
And until next time.
Thanks for listening to thisepisode.
(41:57):
I hope it inspired and ignitedyour entrepreneurial spirit, in
turn of your intuition and trustin the universe.
Make sure to check out the shownotes section for access to my
transformation suite All of freeresources, tools and content to
help you grow your businesswhile staying true to your
soul's purpose.
Until next week, go make somebusiness magic, soul sister.
Welcome to the Business Psychic Podcast, the
show that helps you ignite yoursoul's purpose, turn up your
creativity and activate salesand marketing magic.
I'm your host, amber Annette,and I'm thrilled to be here with
you today to explore the depthof what it means to be a woman
in business.
I believe that business is morethan just making money.
It's about making a differenceand making your mark.
(00:24):
So sit back, get present andlet's dive in and uncover the
secrets to building a businesswith soul, purpose and magic.
Welcome back to another episodeof the Business Psychic.
I'm Amber Annette, I'm yourhost and, as usual, I am beyond
thrilled to introduce to youtoday's guest, the fabulous Kim
(00:49):
Keele.
Kim Keele is a copy coach,direct response strategist and
founder of the boutiquecopywriting agency Kim Keele
Copy.
With over 15 years of writingmulti-six figure campaigns for
small businesses and nonprofits,kim helps Gen X entrepreneurs
and experts share their giftsand positive impact with the
world.
She has a knack for instantlycapturing a client's voice and
(01:12):
writing elegantly persuasivecopy.
When she's not nerding out onsale psychology in her home of
Edmonton, alberta, you can findher tromping through the
Canadian wilderness with herkids or continuing her quest to
find her favorite whiskey Tofind out more about Kim and
copywriting, I encourage you toturn into her podcast Ill
(01:33):
Communication on your FavePlayer or at kimkeelcom forward
slash podcast.
Kim, I freaking love readingyour bio and I'm so thrilled to
have you here and to introduceyou and all of your magic to my
audience.
Welcome.
Kim Kiel (01:49):
Oh, Amber, I am so excited to be here as well.
I am a fan girl and yeah, I'mready, I'm ready Like it's gonna
be magic.
Amber Annette (01:56):
I'm feeling it.
So let's just for my audience.
I don't know if my listenersknow this or not, but I am
obsessed with writing and ourconnection, whether it be
through our friendship.
We have working together in mymastermind like we've worked
together for a few years now.
You know how much I lovewriting and that has just been a
(02:17):
common thread to ourrelationship.
But I really wanna go deep intoall kinds of aspects of writing
today the creative process ofwriting, the sales process of
writing and, of course, myfavorite, the intuitive process
of writing.
So I'm so excited to have youhere.
We'll just kind of share withus.
So how did you, like alwaysknow we wanted to be a writer?
(02:37):
Did it just come to you laterin life?
Share that part of the storyTake us there.
Kim Kiel (02:42):
I think writing has always been a part of who I am.
From a little girl, I was likewriting little vignettes in my
head.
I was writing little songs.
I was creating little dances,like choreographing little
dances that I would give to myfamily, you know, on Friday
nights, force them to sit downand watch that.
Through junior, high and highschool I was, you know, the
(03:06):
emotional poetry writer, writingmy own songs, and you know,
like that's kind of who I wasgrowing up.
When I went into university Ireally wanted to combine, like I
also really love the sciences,I loved that logical, methodical
, scientific method, I lovedfiguring things out, and so I
(03:29):
really wanted to be able toblend these two sides of me,
this very scientific, analyticalside, with this very creative
ability to create and share andcommunicate.
But nothing like that wasactually available at the
university that I was attending,so I had to get special
permission to studyenvironmental sciences and minor
(03:54):
in communications, because howare we gonna solve the climate
crisis, the environmental lossof biodiversity, unless we can
actually communicate it withpeople about why it's a problem,
what we can do to solve it?
And so I actually had to writea very persuasive letter to be
(04:14):
able to take this verycustomized degree program.
And when the faculty receivedmy letter they were like well,
if you can write that greatpersuasive letter, you should
totally be in communications.
So that was sort of where Ireally created more of a
practice around writing andunderstanding communications and
(04:36):
interpersonal communicationsand the art of nonfiction
writing.
So that is sort of more whereI've studied is in nonfiction.
I'm not much of a creativewriter anymore.
Amber Annette (04:48):
Oh, every If it was there once.
It's still there, I bet.
Kim Kiel (04:51):
Well, it's still there .
I don't know the last time Isat down to write a little song
or something like that at thepiano was, so it's been a while.
Amber Annette (04:59):
So you might know this, but not too many people
know this.
I write really sappy countrymusic lyrics.
And I'm telling you there, Iswear, like some of the songs
I've wrote are like Taylor Swiftworthy, I'm not kidding you.
They are like really, reallygood.
And here's the thing about itthough I'm not doing it to like
(05:21):
make money from it Like thatpart of the creativity in me,
though it sparks other aspectsof me.
It brings in ideas fordifferent I don't know offers
inside of my business or contentI want to create for my
business.
So I'm just curious do you havethings like that that happen
for you, where you're like maybewriting for yourself or your
(05:42):
journaling, and then stuffstarts to come in for, like your
copywriting?
Kim Kiel (05:47):
Not so much on the writing side of things, if I'll
sit down at the piano every oncein a while and I'll just kind
of like bang out some TaylorSwift tunes and, you know,
cheryl Crowe, you know.
But for me where I get someflow and some ideas is when I'm
cleaning my house and I stick myheadphones on and I'm blasting
(06:10):
music and like literally singingat Beastie Voice for Sure Queen
, Herbie, Taylor Swift, Lizzoand I'm like, I am literally
like belting it out at the topof my lungs.
My family, like it's not theirfavorite time at all, but this
is where I like tap into my souland that's where I feel in flow
(06:32):
.
And it doesn't necessarilyhappen immediately, but I just
need those regular hits of likebelting out music, tapping into
that inner performer.
That's where things come in forme.
And when I'm walking, like whenI go for a nature walk, that's
when I sometimes get some greatideas for content for myself or
even for my clients.
Amber Annette (06:54):
Yeah, I, I mean, I think I call them writing
rituals.
You know, for myself, like Icall mine coffee with the
universe.
You know, when I write thoselike creative song lyrics, like
you know, when I'm going out andI'm moving my body, when I'm
going for a walk, it's thosetimes where it's like we're just
in a space of non-resistancethat the universe can bring to
(07:14):
us those ideas.
And you know my belief ideasequal income.
And when you're a copywriter,for sure, ideas equal income,
because you have to turn thoseideas into just a beautiful
piece of copy which you wouldyou do.
So Kind of share with us alittle bit how you write.
You know how you, how you'vegone from writing that paper to
(07:34):
now writing sales copy forambitious women.
I mean, I guess you have somemen that are clients to you,
what you don't just work withwomen but how have you taken
that and turned this into suchan incredible, successful
copywriting business?
Kim Kiel (07:50):
Well, I think I have always infused those two sides
of me, so there's that veryresearch focused, very
analytical nerd.
So when I'm working with myclients, the very first phase of
that is always on researchdeeply researching their clients
and customers, deeplyresearching their offer, looking
(08:14):
through other testimonials,looking what else is going on in
the landscape, and thenbreaking down all of that data
into different themes or bucketsof objections, dreams, desires,
hesitations, problems, wishes,like, so that I know what is
going on in the ideal buyer tolead them through that journey.
(08:34):
And then I also love pairingall of that research with a
framework or a formula or a copyrecipe.
I really love cooking and Ilove cookbook.
So following a recipe reallyworks for me because Sometimes
when you sit down, when you'recreative, you have so many ideas
that are coming All the timeand you like, oh, that's a
(08:57):
really great idea and oh, that'swhen I need to write about this
.
But when I start with theframework, that gives me the
guidance for what to say first,the next, the next, the next.
It allows me to constrain thatcreativity and within those
individual sections then I canreally Expand my creativity,
like it's.
It's such a weird thing, butthat that constraint helps me
(09:20):
hone my creativity?
Uh, so that I can find theright words and match that data
with the right framework andthen with that sort of creative,
intuitive, creative sauce thatI bring to the table.
Amber Annette (09:35):
I find, if I find anybody's creative process
fascinating, I mean I amextremely like I have like
creative ADHD, like I have, andwhen I can get into one of my
zones, I mean the post-it notesare flying, like there's gel
pens everywhere, I've probablygot some like tarot cards going,
I've got notebooks all over theplace and I have this creative
(09:58):
frenzy.
That happens, you know, and itcan be overwhelming at that
point to then take all of thatmagic that is in Google docs and
on napkins and on post-it notesand pull it all together to
turn it into A piece of copy ora programmer.
So how do you get organized,like, how do you take and I know
so many Other entrepreneursthat kind of feel this way, they
(10:20):
have all this great stuff, theyhave Google docs, all the
things how you pull thattogether and really start to put
structure and stay organizedwith?
Kim Kiel (10:28):
that.
So for me I just use a goodold-fashioned Google spreadsheet
, like I have a master documentfor every client and for myself
that has customer interviews,that has all of the online
research that I've done for them, that has testimonials and
quotes all built in so that Ican, as I start to, when
(10:51):
everything is all in that oneplace, then I can start to see
some of the repeating patternsand the themes that come up that
people are saying about whenthey work with you, and then I
can also just easily search,search a term, so say, something
that keeps coming up is oh soand so helps me break through
barriers or something like that,just as a weak example.
(11:12):
Then I can actually searchbreaking barriers In the entire
spreadsheet and anytime thatthat comes up, now I have like a
customer testimonial or I havedirect voice of customer that I
can weave into the copy.
So I just use a basicspreadsheet where I copy paste
everything.
Other copywriters I know uselike snippets or Evernote or
(11:34):
like air table or different verysophisticated Programs, but for
me it's just a simple Googlesheet.
That's how I keep it organized.
Amber Annette (11:42):
I and I've tried all of those, every single one
you just named, and honestly, Ithink it is just finding the
creative process that works foryou, that's.
Kim Kiel (11:51):
and yet I'm still like I love hearing about other
people, you know you, just it's,it's always fascinating to me,
the best system I've always saidthe best system is the one that
you will follow and you will doso like.
Don't overthink it, don't thinkyou need to be following what
all the gurus say.
If you're a pen and paper, ifyou have a notebook for every
single project that you have,then do that.
(12:12):
If you like a whiteboard, dothat, but like whatever is your
way of being, just trust thatthat's the right way for you.
Amber Annette (12:21):
So, in talking about this, how structured do
you get with your writing?
You know, I mean, I thinkthere's this common term that
we've all probably heard, whichis like writer's block.
You know, like, and whetheryou're writing a book, or
writing copy or content orwhatever it might be, whatever
the project is that's in frontof you, I think we do all
(12:43):
experience a form of writer'sblock.
How do you navigate when thatlittle bugger shows up?
Kim Kiel (12:53):
That, honestly, the best thing for me is a timeline.
So if I'm procrastinating or Ihave this writer's block, once I
see that deadline, suddenly mywriter's block goes away, like I
can sit down and I can writethe hell out of anything.
(13:13):
But again, if I do this, even inmy own business, if I'm like I
need to create a podcast, whatshould I do a podcast episode on
, and I'll just look through mycollection of writing prompts
and I'll just pick one and I'lljust just decide okay, I'm just
going to follow that and I justsit down and I write it.
Maybe that'll actually inspiresomething different, but it's.
(13:34):
It's seriously just sittingdown and writing, either with a
framework or a formula, justgetting out of my own way.
And sometimes you don't startat the top of the page but you
start at the FAQ section, or youstart at the, at the offer
section, or you start at theabout me section, like if
there's an area that I know Ican, if I can figure out the
(13:55):
hook for some sales page, I'llgo to a section that I can write
and then I'll eventually goback and and write that.
Amber Annette (14:03):
And I mean, if you think about it, I didn't
realize for sure when I firststarted my business 10 years ago
what an interval piece tosuccess writing would have on my
business, and especially in theonline I mean, I can't even say
especially in online, so I sentany space and business.
Right now, I mean, especiallyif you're an entrepreneur or a
(14:24):
solo per newer, you know you'retrying to like, do all of the
things right.
You got your website copy, yougot email marketing, you have
social.
I mean the you need to createoffers, I mean just even just
regular communication with yourclients, ongoing or prospects,
or it is probably the mostimportant aspect, in my opinion,
(14:47):
of being an entrepreneur.
Kim Kiel (14:51):
I 100% agree and I think I think writing and
communication is underappreciated.
In every career or discipline,whether you're an corporate or
not, as an entrepreneur orwithin within a business, you
need to be able to communicateeffectively with your teammates,
(15:11):
with your internal team, withyour stakeholders, with your
direct clients.
Once they become come yourclients, how are you welcoming
them and indoctrinating them andonboarding them into your
business or to your offer?
Amber Annette (15:22):
like there is so much writing, and I think that's
one of the things that Ilearned from you inside of your
joy with copy club the copy clubthat I was in with you your
monthly container is that alsosetting aside some designated
space to be with your ownwriting, to be with those
(15:44):
projects that need to be at apoint of completion, to connect
your message and your writingwith your bigger vision and to
always be coming back to that.
I'm curious how do you maketime for your own writing?
I mean, since you're writingfor all of these you know
business owners andentrepreneurs and you have a
(16:04):
beautiful raster of clients howdo you make time to do your own
stuff?
Kim Kiel (16:10):
I know that story about the cobblers kid like that
is definitely a challenge thatI have and yeah, what.
One of the things I love aboutthe copy club is that it gives a
two hour window every weekwhere people can sort of park
that in their calendar and andsay, okay, there's nothing else
this week.
I at least have those two hourswhere I can get some writing
(16:31):
done.
Often I'm doing my own writingduring those two hour sessions
as well, so I have that in mind.
The other thing that I have doneis for my podcast.
I'm working with a podcastproducer, so I have a deadline
that I need to get stuff over toher and her team in order to do
all the things that they dowith it.
(16:51):
So that kind of forces me atleast on Fridays, I've got to
sit down and create that content.
If I, if I've had a great weekand I can get to the recording
of it a little bit sooner, maybeI do that, but I really don't
have a great practice.
I advise other people to createa great practice, but I myself
do not have that and I'm reallymore of a fly by the seat of my
(17:14):
pants.
Wait for the inspiration, trustthat and bang that email out
right then and there.
Amber Annette (17:21):
Well, that is a process.
Yeah, if you think about it,that is a process.
That's, even if it's even ifit's yours and it's unique, it's
still your process and Ipersonally, like that.
I'm like my palms are sweatingthinking about these deadlines
that you have.
Like like if I had a deadlinethat was like sitting out there,
(17:41):
like that it might do the exactopposite to me where you're
like, it inspires you you know,totally inspires me.
Kim Kiel (17:48):
If I, if someone's like, oh well, just get to get
it to me anytime, I'll be like,but then I'm never going to do
it, it's never going to happen.
So I need a deadline.
Amber Annette (17:58):
I think it's.
I mean, I just find everybodyis, like I said, like their own
process.
So just intriguing to me justthe way that we all operate so
differently.
It's just, it's justfascinating to me so.
Kim Kiel (18:11):
I think one of the biggest lessons I've had to
learn over my few years of beingan entrepreneur is not to feel
bad about it like you do, you, Ido, I like there's so much out
there in the media like you haveto do morning pages and you
have to do evening pages and youhave to do it at 5am to write
(18:31):
your book, and you have to dothis and you have to do that.
And I was feeling really badthat I wasn't like that, that I
didn't have that proper daily orweekly writing practice.
And I was very first severallike months, like 18 months, I
didn't email my list at allbecause I thought I have to do
(18:53):
it perfectly or else I can't doit.
And it wasn't until I gavemyself the freedom to just play
and experiment and to like if anidea came in and I said this
could be an email instead of.
You know well, I'll have towrite that when I sit down and
write my emails.
I just decided when that emailcut, when that idea comes in,
I'm going to write about it andsend it off.
(19:14):
Yeah, doesn't have to be on aschedule, it doesn't have to be
at a certain time of day orcertain time of week.
It was just more important forme to get that message out and
it that process served me sobeautifully and just taking that
pressure off and trusting thatI can do it my way and it'll be
okay.
Amber Annette (19:33):
So this is sparking something with me that
I haven't.
I've shared it with you,because the idea, this idea kind
of came to me through workingwith you inside of the copy club
.
But I restructured how I setgoals for myself based off of
what I love, which is like copycontent, writing marketing,
(19:57):
emails, whatever you want to sayright, like how we whatever I
mean they're, they're they'reall a little bit different, but
I'll kind of we've done to one.
So normally, and for the last10 years in business and then
before that and in any type ofprofessional role I ever played,
we would set goals based off ofthe month you know, like you
(20:20):
know.
So let's bring it all the wayto like right now, you know Like
I want a 25K month or it's, youknow, these like income base
months.
Or I want a seven figurebusiness, or like right, and
don't get me wrong, I've hadgreat success with having some
goals set like that.
But I had a block recently andI'm talking just about up until
(20:41):
April of this year where thatjust was not inspiring me to set
goals like that.
I freaking got to this placewhere I was like, oh wait, I'm
just coming up with thisarbitrary number because it's a
new month.
This is stupid.
I'm not doing this anymore.
And what came to me in thatmoment was what do I love?
I love writing, I love content,I love connecting with my
(21:02):
audience, I love inspiring,driving, moving and motivating.
And I started setting goalsbased around my content and not
even just goals, kim, butbeliefs that every time I post
to social media, every time Iwrite my heart out to my email
list, I receive money and I amabsolutely gonna like.
(21:28):
I am blown away by how muchmore sales I have done and come
I have created since I attachedmy goal to my message.
I would love to hear what youthink about that.
Kim Kiel (21:42):
I think that's a missing piece.
I know for my own self when Ifound myself holding back or
being in a block.
It's when people reframe it andsort of put it in the
perspective of but somebodyneeds your help, like somebody
is looking for you and if you'renot sharing your message you're
(22:06):
getting it out there.
You're not helping people.
And I think for me I haven'tcreated those beliefs that you
have around, like every time Ishare a social post or every
time I send an email I makemoney.
But I think that that is like agolden ticket right there to
just believe that yeah, when Ipress send, it's gonna create
(22:29):
that connection, create thatopportunity and that bridge to
make some money.
So I love that.
Amber Annette (22:35):
Yeah, I mean, and it's a belief that I started
with, it wasn't super strong,but now that I've been at this
for about three months, like ohmy gosh, it is a belief that I
want to continue to believedeeper in.
I mean, it's just beenabsolutely incredible.
So I think, too, just like youcan establish new beliefs, new
(22:55):
beliefs about your message, newbeliefs about your purpose, and
I'm just wondering, like foryourself, like how do you create
goals then around?
Like I mean, I know you saidyou need timelines, but like,
tell me a little bit about, like, goal setting and like how do
you connect it to copy and yourbusiness and all of it.
Kim Kiel (23:18):
So I do like a money goal, but I don't.
I'm motivated by money, becausethere are really beautiful
things that I want to be able todo with money with my family
and for my community.
But when I shifted from havinglike a financial goal for the
Joy of Copy Club to saying Iwant to triple copy club, I want
(23:41):
to triple the enrollment, likethat gave me a totally different
energy.
That gave me new focus and itwas almost like the money
pressure was off and you canplay more with.
What does that actually mean?
To triple the enrollment inyour program and how can you
bring people in?
How can you invite people in?
(24:01):
And it just made me feel a lotmore playful, made me like, feel
less tied to like this is whatit is, it's this, these are the
boundaries for this offer, andit makes me have a little bit
more expansion and spaciousnessto be able to be like oh well,
this is a nonprofit person who'scoming to me.
Maybe this, the entrepreneurialpackage, doesn't work for them,
(24:24):
so let me create a beautifuloffer that's gonna appeal to
that nonprofit person.
Suddenly now I have anotherenrollment in the copy club, so
I'm one step closer to triplingthat enrollment.
So I think it's more of the forme, the impact goal.
That is more motivating to methan having a financial goal.
I do have financial goals, butI would say, yeah, having a goal
(24:46):
like I'm gonna get two newwebsite copy clients or I'm
gonna get two new voice guideclients, those are way more
motivating for me.
I just think they just feelmore tangible.
Amber Annette (24:56):
Yeah, I think it's interesting.
The more my income is tied tomy inspiration, the more
inspired I am.
You know, I think that's prettyinteresting for sure.
So I mean, we talked about kindof a variety of things with
writing.
Here I do wanna talk a littlebit about what does following?
(25:16):
You know you have theseformulas and you have kind of
some copy rules that you love tofollow for yourself because you
know they give you a return onyour inspiration and a return on
you know that your clients wanttheir return for clients and
for sales.
But what about your intuition?
What if your intuition istelling you man, I just don't
(25:41):
feel like this formula is gonnawork for some reason.
Like, how do you balanceformulas with your intuition,
that analytical side, with thatintuitive side?
Kim Kiel (25:51):
That's a great question, anna.
I don't know that I have agreat answer, because I think
that with any creative process,you know, you know your color.
If I was an artist I would knowokay, well, this is how you
make a certain shape or anobject, this is how you assign
colors or choose your colors.
But then there's that alsomoment of magic where you just
(26:12):
let your gift express itself.
And I would say that the sameis true when I'm sitting down to
write copy for myself and myclients.
I've got all the information,I've done all the practice, I
know how the flow is supposed togo, and so I follow the
framework.
But I also give myselfpermission to color outside of
the lines, and often it willcome in the form of like a hook
(26:38):
or something that I see in theresearch.
That will just stand out to meand I'll be like ooh, that's
juicy and it's.
I've tried to explain how I findthose hooks and it's.
It's nothing that I can reallyteach somebody.
It's just the more you do it,the more you get that like ooh,
you feel it, you call it truthbumps, like you might get the
(27:00):
shivers, you might get the ooh,you might be like ooh, that's
good.
You know, when you read areally great line in a book and
you're like, ooh, I love that.
It's kind of that feeling.
So when I have those moments,either when I'm writing or when
I'm researching, those are whatI'm looking for and I I allow
myself to do it imperfectly andto not follow the framework.
(27:21):
But I will start with theframework.
Amber Annette (27:24):
Mm, the framework leads to that magic.
Yeah, it totally does.
Yeah, well, I think that waslike I disagree with you.
I think that was a great answer.
So, to start with, like thatwas, you kind of nailed it
Absolutely.
So anything else, if you, youknow, one of the questions that
I always, you know, like to ask,you know, especially, you know
(27:45):
strong women and businessleaders like you is you know, if
you had to give any piece ofadvice to our listeners about
their writing or creatingcontent or inspired messages
like what, what would be yourtruth bump that you could give
to somebody?
Kim Kiel (28:03):
I think for me, and especially because I'm talking
with you, someone who is anintuitive, a psychic and who has
brilliant marketing ideas onlike it's like you have, the
faucet is always on full boardfor you I used to have a lot of
pressure and feel really badabout myself that I wasn't
getting a divine download Like Iwas waiting for, like this
(28:26):
thunderbolt, or I was waitingfor a voice, or I was waiting
like everyone talks about.
Oh, I had this divine download.
I had this, this downloaded forme the other day.
This whole offer suite came tome and I and I was like, why am
I not having those?
And I realized for me it's awhisper, it is an idea, an idea
(28:46):
will come to me and I'll thinkthat's a great idea.
And I had to really trainmyself not to push the idea away
but to trust the idea, to trustthat that idea came to me and
that that was my download.
It wasn't a download at all.
It was like a little blink.
A little idea came into my mind.
I started to learn that thoselittle blinks and winks and
(29:10):
whispers are my downloads.
They're just not these big like.
Oh you know, nothing is likethe sky.
Amber Annette (29:17):
Not a big, booming voice from God, not a
big, booming voice.
Kim Kiel (29:19):
It's not what I imagined.
Every all these other peoplesaying, oh, I had a divine
download, no, it was just abeautiful idea and I took action
on it.
Yeah, so just trust.
Trust your ideas, becausethey're coming to you for a
reason.
Amber Annette (29:35):
And so that, sister.
Well, thank you, this was great,and of course it wouldn't be an
episode of the business psychicwithout giving you a business,
reading and then, of course,asking you my favorite question
that I get to ask all of myguests at the end here.
Okay, so I just found out youhave been listening to my
(29:57):
podcast that have been stopping.
I have from that questionbecause you wanted to be
surprised.
So, yeah, that is my mostfavorite ever.
I'm super excited that youdon't know what question I'm
going to ask you and I don'tknow a little bit more magical.
So I'm just a nerd that way.
Well, let me tap in here for asecond and see what kind of can
start to come through for just amaybe a quick, quick and dirty
(30:20):
little reading here for yourbusiness, for the rest of the
rest of 2023.
We're in July right now.
Okay, so the first thing thatcomes to me is the word revamp,
and I personally have thisproduct from you.
It is the joy of copy cards andthese cards are freaking
amazing.
You pull a card, gives you acopy prompt, it gives you a
(30:42):
formula, all the things youtalked about here and I love
them.
But something is telling me thatyou're going to be either a
revamping them or relaunchingthem, and that is fantastic is
what I'm hearing.
So that's the first.
One feels like maybe you'rejust changing the format a
little bit or tweaking something.
That tweak is going to make abig difference.
I truly legitimately see theseon the shelf that Barnes and
(31:05):
Noble.
I need you to know that they'regoing to be there.
I'm like covered in truth bumpsfor you when I deliver that to
you.
So please know, whatever changeyou're making, or if you're, if
you're not in the middle ofmaking a change, whatever ideas
you've had to make the changesto those cards Kim is going to
be, with no pun intended, theright recipe.
And copy catalyst keeps comingto me and I feel like this could
(31:34):
maybe be a new session, a newoffer.
It just feels to me like whatyou have is working, the offers
you have, the private clientsare taking the copy club, which
I so enjoy being a part of, butthis just feels like something
that's a little bit more on themindset side of copy and maybe
it's like a quick you know likeeven be.
(31:57):
Oh, I like that.
I'm hearing this could evenactually be like a lead magnet
it's and it feels like themindset side of copy, the
mindset side of writing, the.
There's something in that spacefor you that I feel like you
haven't really showcasedyourself as also activating
(32:17):
women to actually just do thedamn thing, holding women
accountable to.
You know the message that theysaid they want to put in the
world.
There's something about this,about you being in that word.
Catalyst is coming in reallystrong around that.
I also feel like I get thisimage yeah, I get this image of
(32:43):
you.
It feels like almost givingyourself a solo retreat
somewhere and I know this mightsound weird, but I get the
picture, this like picture ofyou with like a quill pen, like
an actual feather pen, and thislike cool notebook that you
(33:07):
start to write in a way that youhave not wrote before, and it
does to me feel like it couldstart off with I don't want to
say fictional, but like it leadsto something deeper.
It leads to a deeper level ofwriting than you have done
(33:29):
before and that to me feels likewhat's next for you.
I feel as gifted as you are andas talented as you are.
The universe wants you to knowin this moment that you've
really just kind of scratchedthe surface of your writing and
that you've kind of been playingit safe and simple with
copywriting and there's justmore that wants to emerge and
(33:49):
there's something about thislike solo space and there's
something unique about this penand just like a different way
than you've ever wrote beforethat inspires ways of writing
that you've never wrote before.
Kim Kiel (34:03):
Very cool, I will look for that and do it.
I mean, we've worked togetherfor a few years, amber, and I
know that you often have theidea way before I'm willing to
see it and way before I'm readyto implement.
But so often many of thosebeautiful ideas that you shared
(34:25):
with me months earlier than itwould a few months later then
I'd be like, oh hey, this iswhat I'm doing.
You'd be like I told you to dothat three months ago, so I
trust you.
Amber Annette (34:36):
Yes, and you know , everybody needs to take action
in their own time.
I just love it when I get tosay I told you so.
So I'm very excited to see whatcomes from these few things.
Do you have any questions oranything you want me to tap into
?
Kim Kiel (34:54):
You know what?
I just think it's neat that youpicked up on the revamping, the
copy recipe cards, because Ihave had preliminary questions,
conversations with the designerwho helped me with those to make
it more accessible so that itcan be.
Amber Annette (35:13):
Also, I really do , as you said, that I just got
the flash image of like ajournal or some type of like
workbook that could accompanysome type of the joy of copy
journal.
Kim Kiel (35:29):
Yeah, yeah, I'm like building your own sort of copy
cookbook where you have likethese are the essential
ingredients for your messaging,like how to how to flesh out
your messaging, and it becomesyour playbook or your master.
Amber Annette (35:46):
I even get like content, content, ingredients,
you know that are connected topurpose, like I can.
This is happening, it's prettytangible, it's like pretty, I
can see it pretty clearly.
This vision is pretty strongfor you, so I think you should
just, I think you should just goahead and create the copy of
the joy of copy journal.
Okay, have that being acompanion piece.
(36:08):
Please.
Love it.
All right, are you ready for myfavorite question that I get to
ask everybody?
Yeah, if you could connect toanybody in spirit and receive a
message from them, who would itbe?
And I'm talking, it can beabsolutely anybody.
(36:32):
It can be a past loved one, itcould be a celebrity, anybody
that you, that is past and is inspirit, that you would love to
receive a message from.
Kim Kiel (36:50):
What comes to my mind is I would love to hear a
message from my favorite author,Jane Austen.
Amber Annette (37:03):
I don't know Jane Austen, but I get a punchy
humor from her.
Would that match herpersonality?
Kim Kiel (37:11):
It would definitely match her style of writing, okay
.
Amber Annette (37:15):
So I'm connected to that energy.
And what's interesting is shesays that she's been whispering
in my ear some of these ideasfor you, some of some of the
message behind you have justscratched the surface, and she's
inviting you to go deeper.
(37:39):
She's inviting you to reallysay what you want to say,
because it feels like you'reholding back, you're following
the formula too often, and shesays, instead of following the
(38:03):
feather I'm not sure what thatmeans Instead of she's showing
me this like feather floatingthrough the air, which is really
interesting because I connectthat back to that image almost
of like that quill pen for you.
And so she's saying, also, whenyou want to be connected and
(38:24):
when you want to be inspired towatch for this feather from her,
look, it's just a, it's a verycool image.
She says you'll know it whenyou see it's like a, it's almost
got like a hint of oh yes,you're this like blue.
She shows me like almost like ablue and a brown hint to this
feather and she's saying your,her words are yours, gifted as
(38:48):
she, but you're not.
You're just not allowing yourgift and you're not allowing.
You're not allowing always thewriting you want to write to get
shared with the world and shesays it's time and she puts and
(39:12):
she shows me a lamp post andI've never had a.
I've never had spirit show me alamp post before.
So this is a new image for me.
And she's showing me this lamppost and in some ways I feel
like it's like a line in thesand and yet it's a lamp post.
So we'll have to decipher whatthat means from her.
Maybe you know what that meansor maybe that's something she
(39:35):
says your lamp post is what somepeople would call a lighthouse,
but your image is a lamp postwhat comes up for you.
Kim Kiel (39:46):
With that, I mean, as soon as you mentioned the
feather, I immediately thoughtof the quill pen, because that
is, and even when you mentionedpreviously the quill pan, I was
like, oh well, that's how likeold, old authors would have been
writing their, their stories.
Amber Annette (40:05):
So is she an older author.
Kim Kiel (40:06):
I she's like, she's like the 1800s yeah.
Amber Annette (40:12):
Like the lamp post.
Kim Kiel (40:14):
I mean it makes total, it makes total sense to me, oh
my gosh, kim.
I'm covered in tree bumps and Ihave been seeing feathers all
over the place for the lastcouple of months, like it's been
crazy yeah.
Amber Annette (40:28):
So you can't make this up.
Kim Kiel (40:30):
I know, I know it's beautiful and I it makes me
excited to want to not writeabout copy necessarily.
Amber Annette (40:44):
Yeah yeah, that was.
That was the energy I wasfeeling to like and I know you
said like I never write fictionand it doesn't feel like fiction
, and yet there's a magic to it.
There's something more aboutthe magic of writing versus just
the copy.
Yeah, and I can't wait to seeit come from you.
Kim Kiel (41:06):
I mean, I'm gonna watch for it in about six to 12
months.
That's our track record.
Amber Annette (41:11):
it takes you a little bit.
Well, hopefully this willactivate more.
So, kim, thank you so much forbeing on the podcast.
It was one of my favoriteepisodes so far.
I know our audience is going toabsolutely love this and love
you.
I've got all kinds of notes inor all kinds of ways to connect
with you in the podcast shownotes here, including just going
(41:34):
to your website, kim keel K I MK I E L com.
And until next time to myaudience, go be in your magic.
Thank you so much for listening.
This is Amber and that I'm thebusiness psychic.
And until next time.
Thanks for listening to thisepisode.
(41:57):
I hope it inspired and ignitedyour entrepreneurial spirit, in
turn of your intuition and trustin the universe.
Make sure to check out the shownotes section for access to my
transformation suite All of freeresources, tools and content to
help you grow your businesswhile staying true to your
soul's purpose.
Until next week, go make somebusiness magic, soul sister.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.