October 23, 2025 • 43 mins
Recorded on 10/21/25, 6:30 pm CST
TW/CW: contains discussion surrounding ICE raids
I welcome a fierce and fabulous friend, Saint Mary Clarence, who joins us in full drag to demonstrate the political power of this queer art form. But the conversation shifts into the urgent discussion of the current ICE raid crisis in and around Chicago.
Saint Mary Clarence—a dedicated community member—breaks down the crisis in their local community of Oak Park (located next to Chicago), including:
The Local Government Response: How Oak Park officials and residents are responding to the recent ICE and law enforcement activities in their area.
The “No Kings Protest”: We discuss the genesis and meaning of the growing anti-authoritarian movement and what it means to be actively engaged in the resistance against the current administration.
Drag as Political Art: We explore how the very act of dressing in drag is a radical, political statement and a form of highly visible resistance against antiquated, oppresive systems.
The Role of White Privilege: A frank and necessary discussion on how white allies can and must recognize and leverage their privilege to meaningfully support community members who are most at risk of danger and deportation.
This is an urgent and inspiring conversation about community, courage, and choosing to show up for justice.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:03):
Hey everyone, welcome to the Bunmi Chronicles podcast.
This is another emergency edition of the podcast as I have
been covering the current ice rates going on in Chicagoland
area. So I am joined with a person
named Sister Mary Clarence. They are a very good friend of
mine and we are honoring their privacy and also for safety
(00:28):
purposes. And I also want to give a
trigger warning that there will be mentions of ICE and this may
include potential violent experiences associated with the
Chicago ICE raids. And the time stamp right now is
6:41 PM on Tuesday, October 21st.
And so I knew Sister Mary for the last several years in the
(00:49):
LGBTQ spaces, I have watched them share so much about
themselves as a storyteller, as a person battling cancer and
providing professional development guidance and really
been community organizing an OakPark, which is just outside of
Chicago. And I watch them share and talk
about their involvement in the Free Palestine movement, trans
(01:11):
rights, Black Lives Matter, and currently the fight against the
ICE raids in Chicago and the surrounding Chicagoland area.
So I want to say welcome to the show, It's great to have you on.
And how are you navigating this month since the start of the ICE
raids and how has that affected you and the community that you
(01:34):
live in? Thanks so much, Randy, and I
really appreciate the chance to be here and and to talk about
this and all the work that you're doing to, you know, help
bring context and like help people understand what is
happening. And so I think like a lot of us
have really seen major shifts inlike the culture and the actions
(01:54):
that are happening in and aroundChicago and through these sort
of collar communities that, you know, circle Chicago, because
Cicero, for example, is right next to Oak Park.
Cicero has the highest percentage of Hispanic
population and Latino populationin Illinois, 90%.
And so we're seeing a lot of ICEraids really target communities
where, like, the most vulnerablepeople, people who are coming in
(02:17):
and out of hospitals, in and outof schools, courts, work,
laundromats, people who are, youknow, trying to build a roof on
a house and are left, you know, literally dangling off the side.
Today a friend of mine was, I'm sorry, actually yesterday it's
been kind of a blur. A friend of mine who's an
attorney was kidnapped by ICE, detained by ICE because he was
(02:39):
blowing a whistle. And you know, he's a lawyer,
he's a litigator, he's AUS citizen that was outside of his
kids school where his kids go to2nd grade.
And like, it's, it's really hitting all of us in so many
different ways because we're seeing a new level of brutality.
We're seeing, we're kind of useda lot of us who've been involved
(02:59):
in activism or protests have been used to, you know, the ways
that police operate. And certainly there's a history
of like, you know, Chicago police being violent, but this
is a whole different level of escalation and brutality and
chemical warfare just really being launched with no warnings.
And that's also, you know, beingfought in the courtrooms right
now. We're seeing a lot of different
(03:22):
cases that are like, fortunatelythe the judges are are saying,
hey, wait a minute, hang on. But right now the federal agents
are moving a lot faster and we're starting to see the
cooperation in different forms. It's like a very interesting
line between the way that state police and local police are
operating and not necessarily protecting people, but
protecting federal operations, and it's messed up.
(03:44):
Oak Park is in a very unique area.
It's next to Chicago. It's next to Cicero, Berwyn
which you had mentioned is has the highest Latin X population.
Also, it's also worthy to note that Betty White was born in Oak
Park. I'm down here.
Ernest Hemingway and Frank LloydWright are from Oak Park.
(04:06):
What can you share about the demographics of Oak Park and
what makes it very unique in this in this situation?
Oak Park has really celebrated diversity on a couple of levels,
especially in the past 50 years.And Oak Park was one of only a
few communities in the country to ever guarantee residents that
sale prices would never go down and actually had an insurance
(04:29):
program for a short time when they did a huge push for racial
inclusion. There's been, it's been a
subject of documentaries like America to Me that was filmed at
the high school about the history of race relations and
the present tensions because there's still, you know, racism
in Oak Park. There's still a percentage of
people who voted for this administration who are
(04:51):
celebrating, you know, sometimesquietly.
Oak Park's not a place where, you know, people tend to to be
pretty vocal. I can, as a queer person, I can
reliably depend upon the police to defend me and my queerness
and to be interested in stoppinghate crimes, which is different
than a lot of other communities.But we still have a lot of work
(05:12):
to do. And there's still a lot of
tensions and violence that goes back, you know, a long, long
time. But it's also a place where
we've been able to put forward alot of sanctuary status
protection. And our current village
administration is very committedto, you know, being able to
protect people. And there's also a strong
(05:33):
history here of community groupsthat sheltered hundreds of
refugees when those folks were being shipped up on a bus and
just dropped off in the middle of winter from Texas earlier a
couple years ago. And, and a lot of community,
there's a lot of goodwill in thecommunity and a lot of community
support, but even stuff as simple as like the SNAP funding
(05:55):
getting cut in a week, we're expecting to see a lot more need
at the food pantries. And, and there's a lot more
people kind of ramping up support around places like
schools because we're seeing icerates happen here too.
Even though, you know, we were alittle bit at the forefront of
getting some of the sanctuary protections in years ago.
(06:17):
That's that's also part of what's made us a target under
this administration. What you what you have
experienced with Oak Park so farfrom the local government side?
What has the response been from Governor Pritzker and the state
officials to Oak Park and what has Oak Park's response been in
(06:40):
terms of how they have respondedto both ice raids, but also with
Oak Park Police? I think that's certainly
something to really distinguish and, and I think it's very
important to us to understand where is Oak Park Police role in
this because I think this has been the confusion for a lot of
(07:00):
residents from Broadview to different communities in Chicago
right now. I mean, and I obviously can't
speak for the Village of Oak Park or the Oak Park Police
Department, you know, in any capacity.
But just from my own observations, I think there is
like a lot of like trying to figure out and a lot of behind
the scenes, I'm assuming there'sa lot of power struggles, like
at the state level because, you know, the state police report
(07:23):
into Pritzker's office, but Pritzker's on the TV saying that
we're going to protect people and be the front lines of
protection. And then we're seeing the state
police, you know, actively beating people with their sticks
out in Broadview. And, you know, they're running
interference for the feds and stepping between, you know,
they're they're blocking off streets and, and blocking off
(07:44):
the means of of stopping ICE agents going in and out of those
facilities, you know, with people that they've kidnapped.
And right now, the Broadview mayor has essentially created
protest hours. And she's talking about the
protesters being privileged people who are interrupting the
community. But there's also, like a lot of
(08:05):
folks talking about ICE as the new slave trade.
And so I don't think, like, it'sa really, there's a really big
narrative battle that's being, you know, fought at very local
levels where, you know, people'sideologies and their way of
looking at things is shifting really rapidly.
Because, you know, from my lens,there's a lot of private prison
money and private military contracting money being dumped
(08:30):
into, you know, facilities like Alligator Alcatraz are a prime
example of like, you know, we'reseeing people celebrate the idea
of like people being eaten by alligators and hundreds of
people are missing. And in the Broadview facility
that's supposed to be a temporary processing space where
people are, you know, held for afew hours before they're moved
(08:51):
into an actual actual either like deportation or wherever,
like they they'd go. People are being held in, in a
facility that doesn't, it's not designed for overnight.
And there's children in there. People have described the
conditions as being like, you know, utterly disgusting and
like they can't breathe. And the smell is so thick.
(09:12):
There's not like, you know, the human waste and, and, and the
body odor and there's not showers and hundreds of people
are inside a building that's notdesigned to house people at all.
And there's no accountability for this.
And, and that's very concerning and alarming that we're seeing
like some of the like, it's really good to see people
(09:34):
standing up and for the rights of Illinois citizens and for the
rights of people who are in Illinois, even if they're not
citizens. But I'm very concerned about the
gap between what's being said onTV and what's actually like
being done by the police on the street.
And the media is not reporting it necessarily.
Some of the media is, but it's all over the place.
(09:54):
Yeah, which also lends me to howare how is the Oak Park
community responding to the ICE raids in terms of as far as
community members in with schools and hospitals and and
institutions and other spaces. I'm I'm very curious to see if
you could really share about what you have observed so far in
(10:16):
these different spaces. Yeah.
I mean, I think like a lot of different.
The cool thing is, is that there's already a lot of
different groups that already understand and have urgency
behind them. So without like kind of going
into too many details that would, you know, not necessarily
they might not necessarily want public.
I think there's a lot of groups that are that are really setting
(10:37):
up for, you know, how do we how do we help be the sand and the
gears? How do we slow things down?
There's already been instances of people detained in court
battles and, and community rallying support around people
who've been detained and gettingthem out of facilities.
And like, that's part of the hidden vulnerability.
(10:59):
Like, like they're the, it's notthe, it seems like the
Department of Justice's lawyers can't necessarily keep up with
the amount of filings that are happening in court.
And it remains to be seen if thefederal shutdown is going to
shut down courts. And like, if they're going to be
able to process some of this stuff is sort of like yet to be
determined, but there's a lot ofdifferent responses happening
(11:21):
at, you know, the institutions themselves are working to figure
out how to keep people safe. Groups of parents and teachers
and other, you know, people who share an interest in protecting
children are making sure that our schools stay safe.
And, you know, I think like, I'mnot 100% clear on, you know, has
there been an issue with, because I know that there was
(11:42):
the there was incidences of ice staging at Village Hall in Oak
Park and they closed the parkinglot to anyone who wasn't there
for official village business. And so like, that's the only
more direct confrontation that I've seen happen.
But more and more, more and moreelected officials have been
(12:06):
visiting Broadway facilities anddemanding access from, you know,
senators to local legislators. I don't think Robin or
Pritzker's been there. And I think it would be really
important for him to get out andactually see that in person,
because I've seen him March downtown and say that he's in
the middle of action. But I really want to see
Pritzker show up at the Broadview ICE facility and and
(12:26):
see the way that some of these things are happening, especially
around how the state police are behaving.
Because I think that that directly is a prime example of
something that that contradicts our ability to to actually
create sanctuary here. And then a few days ago was the
No Kings protest in Chicago, which through a large, I don't
(12:50):
know what the final numbers are,but it's in the hundreds of
thousands. And and it's also, and I think
this is kind of a struggle of mine personally, because as a
person who's been very jaded forthe last decade and like, do we
have to do this shit again? Do we like, are people very
(13:10):
serious about this? And is this going to be like
another one off? Because I think like the
oppressors are not going to justsimply bow down, especially if
we are kindly asking them to do that.
I mean, I mean, what happened onJanuary 6th is a darn good
(13:31):
example of it. So I feel like do we have to get
into, and I'm not going to, you know, encourage this, but like,
do we have encourage like a French Revolution or like, what
does this, what is this going totake?
And I think the question is fromthe No Kings protest, what have
you observed from being there and and how do you feel like
(13:55):
this might translate into transformational work,
especially for those who are taking the taking it more
seriously? Yeah.
And I think like, you know, on the optimistic side, a lot more
people are waking up every day and a lot more people are really
putting together the pieces we've seen that like.
(14:16):
And I want to connect a couple links here too, because, you
know, a year and a half, two years ago, when we were talking
about Gaza as a genocide, peoplewere arguing with that.
And there's not a lot of that arguing happening now.
And everybody's real clear, you know, that that's been a
genocide and that that the US and all the administrations have
been really complicit in making that happen.
(14:38):
And I think more and more peopleare understanding that.
Like, you know, we're living in a dictatorship now and more
people are. And I don't mean everybody.
I don't think everybody's reallyhad that recognition.
But I see more and more people having it every day where we
like. If you look at history, what did
somebody say? If you understand history, the
future's not a mystery. And there's not been any
(15:00):
dictatorships that have just, you know, left on their own
accord, but there are a lot of examples of them folding because
of their own corruption and their own incompetence.
And like, I think Trump is out to crash the the economy and the
other billionaires are are obviously complicit in that.
And there's a lot of like, you know, vying for power at a huge
(15:20):
level. And but all of this is connected
back to a lot of things we were warned about with the military
industrial complex, prison complex is, you know, the
weapons industries, all these groups that profit a large
amount from war. And this is the boomerang of
those empires coming home to roost that have always been here
for a lot of groups like black, a lot of black people have been
sitting on the sidelines and, you know, justifiably like, hey,
(15:44):
this is a battle that we've got to wait for a lot of people to
wake up. And there's an uncomfortable
space I've heard with a lot of, you know, non white people kind
of like, hey, I'm not trying to cheer on that.
Now this is happening to white people, but it's kind of there's
a certain like odd satisfaction in recognizing like having like
watching people have those awakening moments and realize
(16:04):
like they're vulnerable too. They're not safe under this, you
know, and that's and I think that that requires like it's
really deep. It'll hit a lot of people's
trauma buttons and finding out that they're not safe, that
their privilege is not protecting them, that this is
like, and if we see that in Oak Park, like, and kind of to bring
it back to the no Kings protest the last time around, I saw one
(16:26):
of those Harris, like if, if you'd voted for Harris, we'd be
at brunch right now with signs. And it like drove me nuts.
Cuz, you know, that's, I feel like that's kind of that
symbolic of like, yeah, you guysweren't protesting this when it
was being set up. You know, this is and, and we've
got a lot of work to do, but I think as people wake up, the
numbers are not on their side. They've had staffing challenges
(16:49):
with ICE police and military. They can't, they don't have the
number. They couldn't keep Afghanistan,
and that's 20 million people in that country.
And, you know, our whole military couldn't take that
over. And they can't take over the US
And the US is really heavily armed.
And there's a lot of folks who like that.
You know, they've been waving those Don't Tread on Me signs
(17:10):
for years. They're not awake yet.
They haven't realized they're being dread on, you know.
But back when I lived in rural America, that was part of the
like, Hey, do you think the billionaires are on your side,
buddy? And then you'd see them go like,
I guess they're not. And you're like, right, It's
not. And it's not that complicated.
Like at a certain level. So pretty soon, I think a lot of
a lot of folks are going to be alot more aware that, you know,
(17:30):
if you want to play us, US versus them.
Like, is this really worth transpeople not being able to go to
the bathroom or play basketball?Like now that you can't sell all
your crops and your community's dying, Like, was that worth it
because you you don't like people with nuts in a dress?
Is that that's stupid? That's really stupid.
(17:52):
So let's not be that stupid. Let's let's have communities and
healthcare, you know what I mean?
Yeah, I, I have been speechless for the past, I don't know how
many years. And it is very perplexing to see
the lanes that Trump voters willgo to bite the nose off.
(18:13):
I mean it, it's it really amazesme and I don't know where.
I mean, I could spend like an hour on it and I'm not, I'm
going to spare you in the audience of my grievances.
But I, I think about what do white folks like yourself?
How can you like, share the knowledge, but also like, what
(18:35):
knowledge do you have to impart on many white folks, suburban
folks who have not been involvedor haven't been fully engaged in
this work but are trying to do good?
What's what steps should they consider taking?
I think like it's, it's a lot ofpeople and it, this might be
(18:55):
like some kind of a symptom of whiteness.
Maybe it's perfectionism or the saviorism.
I'm not sure exactly how to label it, but a lot of white
folks are looking for the perfect solution.
Like if I just reach the right supervisor, I can complain and
it'll go away kind of thing. And that's not, that's not how
this works. And this has been a power
structure. You know, the Heritage
Foundation has built this plan for for decades.
(19:17):
You know, it's not we're, we're behind the 8 ball, Harrison.
So there's got to be a sustainedeffort and there's got to be
like a real, you know, we have to allow ourselves to to shift
and engage with reality and recognize that a lot of people
were right all along and and it's OK for us to be wrong.
Just like it's OK to say, you know what I did grew up in a
(19:39):
racist society. I'm trying to unlearn racism.
That's fine. That's a good thing.
It's not like unpacking my racism isn't something that's
like a one and done. Either I'm racist or I'm not
Either I'm homophobic or I'm notor I'm transphobic or I'm not.
And in the same way, one call isn't going to make a huge
difference. But what can I do every day?
What are little actions I can take if I can call and bother my
(20:01):
local elected official like Governor Pritzker's office?
We got 75100 calls made the other day just saying like,
where is Pritzker wisely made out to Broadview?
And because they were telling people like, Oh, well, it's a
federal facility, so you got to call your senators and like, we
got their phone lines shut down.Because like, that's ridiculous.
(20:21):
And he's the Illinois governor and go get to the facility.
It's actually not that hard to get them to respond to stuff.
It doesn't take more than like you get 5 people to call 5
people to call 5 people all of asudden, you know, the governor's
responding. And he was on TV later that
night responding to exactly whatwe were talking about in the
messages. So like, you know, it doesn't,
it's not even though like, it sometimes feel like we have to
(20:42):
make dozens of calls every day. OK, that might take 5-10
minutes. That's OK, Make some calls, show
up to protests, like especially in like the riskier areas.
And people have to learn how to like analyze the risks involved
and and keep themselves safe, which can be like, it's
perfectly legit to stand across the street and just scream
(21:03):
you're a bunch of fragile littleman babies at a bunch of ice
people. You know what I mean?
Like you don't have to be withinswinging range or them get
yourself a bullhorn, you know, dress like a clown.
They love these inflatables. Cool.
Like, be disruptive. Anything we can do right now to
be radically queer is great. Because they can't stand that.
They're horrified. They're terrified of queerness.
That's why they're attacking it all the time.
(21:24):
So like, being radically queer in their faces is a lot more
effective than we realize. And we're very funny, too.
And we're very petty. And I love that about our
community because totally. I think I think someone said it,
like one of my guests said it best, like, queer people are the
best at protests and this. And she's from Korea.
And I'm like, yeah, freaking lutely we are.
(21:45):
Totally, totally. So like I'm, I'm, I'm
encouraging like places like OakPark, like hire some drag Queens
to help you out, you know what Imean?
Like get you some costumes, havesome fun with this.
You know what I mean? Like pay your queer people, but
get help and, and figure out where to tap in.
And also just the mutual aid level, because I think we don't
talk about how that's actually aform of protest too.
(22:06):
But like, we're going to need a lot more people at food banks.
We're going to need a lot more distribution systems of like
getting food to people that can't leave the house for a
variety of reasons. And these systems are being
purposely attacked. That's been the Trump
administration's plan all along.Steve Bannon said, you know,
almost a decade ago that they were going to do arson in all
directions and they're going to light as many fires because the
(22:29):
firefighters that get exhausted running around trying to put
them out because this is life saving stuff.
So just getting engaged with allthat stuff makes a huge
difference because you also build relationships and that's
the core of like relational organizing.
It's so useful to know the helpful people in your
neighborhood. Who are the people running the
food bank? Who are the people, you know,
(22:49):
prepare, doing safety planning around schools, Who are the
people helping out? Like knowing the helpers is
super valuable. Like those are people you really
want to know. And so it's just very much in
everybody's self-interest to like build as tight knit a
commute, throw block parties, dofundraising, you know what I
mean? Like all these groups could use
money, rapid response, mutual aid.
Like there's a ton of need to create different economic
(23:10):
structures, you know, throw, do a drag show, pay drag
performers, you know, charge tickets.
There's a lot of stuff we need to.
Do donate to and donate to your local Etsy witches too.
That part that. Part I know I'm probably gonna
be put on the FBI one at this after this, but that's fine.
But anyways, I also wonder aboutlike you as a parent because you
(23:35):
have a child. I am curious to know what you
have learned from your child's school, but also how is your
child feeling in all of this? Because I know that you talk
about like teaching and helping to.
I hate the word radicalizing in a sense.
It's really it's really human rights if we're being very plain
(23:57):
and simple here. But yeah, I I wonder about how
have you been able to think about this as a parent?
So something that I didn't expect that I think is really
been has been really beautiful was that I, I got involved
teaching sex Ed many years ago in the community.
And that was because partly because I wanted to be ready for
those conversations for my kid, you know, by the time she got
(24:20):
around to adolescence. But what I didn't expect was
that like the book Psychology ofFascism starts off with why
sexual repression is the heart of fascism.
And so it turns out that teaching people like, hey, we
have a really values aligned curriculum.
Everybody deserves consent. Like we believe everybody
deserves consent. Everybody deserves pleasure in
their body. Everybody deserves dignity,
(24:42):
respect, human rights, you know,and to just be able to
experience joy in life is like a, you know, and I believe in
the ideals of like freedom from fear, but those are aspirational
and we don't live in a society that actually actively allows
everyone. Those are seen as privileges,
dignity, joy, freedom, expression.
(25:03):
The people are trying to take that away.
You know, immigrants represent the right to migrate.
Trans people represent the freedom of self-expression.
Palestinians represent the freedom of self determination,
you know, and there's, there's and, and the right to defend
yourself. And so like, there's a lot of
like the ways that these rights are taken away really teach us a
(25:25):
lot about like how can we move in safe ways?
How can we, how can we get our like, how, how am I going to
enforce my boundaries? And, you know, and how do I move
safely? So that's kind of been a lot of,
you know, for many years. That's been a lot of the
conversations like, hey, how do we not, how do we get prepared
for this stuff without traumatizing our kids?
(25:45):
And how do we teach our kids to live really rich, full lives
with all the love they deserve, even though there's going to be
some incredible hardships comingdown the road?
And like, the answer is community.
I mean, the answer is like, it'srelationships.
And like how we have relationships is everything as
far as I'm concerned, you know? And not to oversimplify it, but
(26:07):
like that there's an Erykah Badulyric, right?
Like, I pick my friends, like I pick my fruit, you know?
And if we can get rid of the rotten apples in our lives,
we're doing great. And that's like creating our own
sanctuaries for ourselves and our own spaces where we can be
loved, experience love, connect with each other and be safe, you
(26:27):
know, and, and like, that's beautiful.
Yeah. As a person who's not a parent,
I also wonder what you're observing with your child's
classmates and also how are theynavigating this fear and this
uncertainty? I mean, I, I don't know what
that's like as a parent. And I cannot imagine what it's
(26:50):
like to be a kid in this, in this day and age.
It's. Really hard.
And I think like alerts, there'sreally big, I mean, especially
in this context of the pandemic,there's been huge spikes in, you
know, mental health needs and kids really struggling with
mental health and anxiety and depression.
And that need is enormous right now.
(27:12):
And the need for safe spaces, like we know affirming spaces
save lives and we need a lot more affirming spaces.
And, and that's super true for trans and queer kids, but it's
also true for kids in general. And they don't get enough safe
affirming spaces. And, you know, there's a lot of
pressure on kids right now and alot of uncertainty.
We talk about what's been effective for other communities
(27:36):
in response to ICE. What have you seen that may not
be so effective? And I'm obviously, you know, I,
I think that this is definitely a judgement call because each
community's tailored very differently.
And I think that's something we do want, I do want to
acknowledge that like off the bat here.
But I, I wonder, like, what has not been working, or at least
(27:58):
what you feel like may not be aseffective.
And I think one of the things that I'm also seeing is we saw
what happened with the Facebook groups and Ice Watch where the
Department of Justice told Mehta, you got suspend this and
Meta. I mean, even though I use
Instagram, Instagram quite a bit, I also am very aware of how
(28:24):
this, this feeds a lot of misinformation and surveillance.
So that's also part of what I, I'm starting to feel is starting
to become less effective. So I'm very curious from your
own experience, what you feel like maybe this might not be the
best idea at this time. Yeah, And I think the digital
surveillance tools is, is really, really scary.
(28:48):
And the possibility of of or what's possible with AI and
surveillance is horrifying. And we're seeing it right now,
like with Palantir getting ICE contracts and the ability of,
you know, like some people speculate that Elon Musk took a
bunch of zip drives and pulled everybody's government data.
And that's exactly what Palantirsoftware is built to do, is to
(29:09):
sort through that. You know, an AI can analyze 300
million people's data in a way that would have taken, you know,
the 1950s CIA would have had hundreds of people working
thousands of hours trying to do the same amount of analysis that
AI is capable of doing to put together.
You know, I don't know what, I don't know how vulnerable, you
(29:30):
know, a lot of those databases are.
And I think that's kind of the, you know, the part people, I
think we're all really scared tolook at that dystopian nightmare
in the, you know, and just stareat it and be like, that's so
evil. How could that even be possible,
especially in a time of climate change?
But I think if people knew how dark it can get and like we're
(29:50):
kind of living in that movie right now where like I've been
joking, we're all time travellers sent to change the
future. Like we have to act now.
Like don't forget the mission. People like act now.
So we don't like end up in that fucking hell, now's the time.
And I think like, action's always the antidote to despair.
(30:11):
So we have to find ways just to keep acting and like, learn from
every interaction. And we can't expect that
perfectionism that like, we're going to know the magical thing
that's going to make it all go away.
We've got to be radically ourselves and fully in our
communities as much as possible.And also, like, you know, we
still need to wash the dishes. It's kind of, it's crazy, but
(30:32):
we're balancing all these thingsand just trying to stay, stay
afloat, you know? Yeah, I think that it's
certainly something that I thinkabout very, very much in my own
work because I know that digitalsurveillance is very real.
There's a lot of risk involved. I think when I start seeing
people doing Facebook groups forno kings, like invites, I'm
(30:55):
like, yeah, this is not a good idea.
Like I'm literally like screaming and I'm like, no, you
cannot be like putting yourself out in the open too.
And also doxing has been very real too, like.
Yeah. Like, I know that I, I know that
you're not the knower of all things when it comes to digital
(31:16):
safety, but I'm like, gosh, how do you navigate through these
different channels, especially when you know, it's very crucial
this is out. This is one of the very few ways
we can get to people. I mean, I know as a podcaster,
as a sub stacker, like I feel the need to like share a lot of
information that's not getting in there.
And I have a fight with algorithms because algorithms
(31:37):
hates me. Although I just got went viral
because because the brand name Monica commentary I had on
TikTok and me dancing to a Stephanie Mills song, which she
reposted. So I'm like, OK, maybe I'm
breaking through in this way andI'm like hoping to get more
people that way. But yeah, like, I think this is
like a battle that I have to deal with in terms of like, how
(31:57):
do I get the information out? But but surveillance is
everything. But also, how do you protect
your own safety in the work thatyou do?
Yeah, I mean, I, you know, I, I don't feel fully protected, you
know, and I, I feel like that's part of the, the thing that I'm
recognizing too, is that like for most of human history, we,
we, we weren't living with any kind of like sense that our
(32:18):
lives would be guaranteed to go in a nice little like college,
house, marriage, retirement job,you know, career kind of thing.
Like that's all a very recent invention that turns out wasn't
very stable. And so, like, you know, if we're
going to reinvent the economy, we're also going to have to like
ditch the notion of like this stability did not in a sense of
(32:38):
like, because I don't I don't know what it's like to just
live. TA Nehisi Coates talked about
like living without hope in likehis visioning of what it meant
to like be enslaved. You know, that there was
hundreds. Some people were like lived
their whole life with like the quote UN quote, end of slavery
being hundreds of years away. And so like, you know, they
(32:59):
like, how do you live without hope?
And I don't have a like, and that's pretty bleak, you know,
because I think you can still have joy, you know what I mean?
Like there's still ways. And that's part of like the
preciousness of life. Like we got a party like it's
1999 right now because it's thatlike building that joy is also
essential too. But that doesn't mean that like
(33:20):
the future is guaranteed. And we have to find a way to
like, live a good meaningful life without, you know, like I
can't control what what's going to happen by 2040.
What have you learned about yourown missteps the last couple of
years? I think that we had talked about
perfectionism and I think that there is there is a lack of
(33:41):
grace that's being given to a lot of people who are really
trying to genuinely do good. And unfortunately, that causes
mistakes can't happen, especially in rapid response
moments. And burnout issues are very
common in the nonprofit grassroots collective work.
(34:05):
I think it'd be very interestingto hear about your experiences,
what you've experienced as missteps, as learning
opportunities. Because I really do think that
folks still have this perfectionism or this people
pleasing tendencies. Like, I don't want to get
canceled. I don't want to get kicked out
of the group. I'm feel like I'm going to
offend other, you know, BIPOC folks as a white person or our
(34:29):
wolf and trans folks as a SIS person.
I'm very curious about how you navigated and how you have you
had to learn and repair trust with folks that might have felt
upset. Wow.
Yeah, that's a great set of questions there, too.
And like, I don't know that there's a right or wrong answer,
but I'm thinking about like, youknow, I didn't know for a long
(34:52):
time how valuable it was to be polarizing and to be able just
to lean into the reality that like, if 9 out of 10 people
don't like me, that's fine. Like, I want to find the one
person out of 10 that I can really connect with.
And not to say fuck the rest of them, but you know, yeah, fuck
the rest of them. And like, if and it.
And I'm not like, I think it's so easy to grow up in this
(35:16):
society and accidentally get so wrapped up in everybody else's
opinions that we're just layeredin expectations about what our
life could look like. And seeking out like the pathway
to breaking those is taking healthy risks.
And everyone gets to decide for themselves, like, what the
Hell's a healthy risk versus like, I mean, there's unhealthy
risks we could probably label real quick.
(35:36):
But like, you know, like, what does it mean to like for me,
wearing a dress on the train in public was like a huge moment.
And and if I'd done that 20 years earlier, wow, my life
would have been different. And it's just address.
But I didn't realize until I wasout, you know, on the CTA in a
moo moo. I was like, well, I feel
(35:56):
paranoid. And then I'm like after years,
like, OK, great. You know, I can tell somebody to
fuck off if they have a problem.But like actually like courage
isn't necessary unless you're scared.
You don't need any courage otherwise.
So the only like we got to do shit that we're afraid of if we
know that it needs to be done and that like just finding ways
(36:16):
to build our own courage. It's great if those can be done
in safe ways because there's a lot of unsafe shit coming.
So we're going to need the courage.
Like we don't have the guaranteeof safety in the same way that
we used to, and we got to adapt accordingly.
Yeah, I think that's beautifullysaid because it's something I
was thinking about this morning.I was like, like, like to be
(36:37):
ambitious, to be brave, you haveto piss off a lot of your allies
totally. And I think that's something I
think about all the time becauseI know in this past year I've
had this awakening in some ways where I have become more
outspoken. I also think Wellbutrin, the
medication to kind of has got memore jazzy these days.
But like, but I think that I find myself now that I'm in my
(37:00):
40s and I know we're but I thinkwe're in similar in age.
Like you get to a point where we've had to work so hard to be
validated by people that never under were willing to understand
us and that we just couldn't fitinto this tiny little box.
(37:21):
And and I think that you get to a point where like, fuck it, I
am not going to just continue like this.
And I don't want this to spread into the places that I work at
or the community spaces that I'min because yes, am I scared
sometimes? Absolutely.
Do I always want to rock the boat?
(37:41):
Not always. But there's also a point in
place like y'all like this is a life and death situation.
And I want to at the end of the day when I'm, you know,
hopefully when I'm like 80 yearsold and then getting brought to
like show and tell, you know, ask like, like, you know, at a,
(38:02):
at a grade school. Like what, where were you during
such and such time? Like right now in 2025?
And I'll say this is what I did.This is what I was able to do,
not as a way to show off, but it's more like at least I had a
conscience done and that I am not going to live with that
guilt for the rest of my life and into eternity.
(38:25):
Totally, and that's like the themost beautiful thing about our
hearts is like how we bleed, youknow, and that like the the fact
that we're experiencing like being able to be in a space to
witness like the heartbreak of all that that's happening.
And all that that means is is it's horrible.
It's really hard, but it's also like evidence that like we've
(38:47):
got big hearts and big love because the people like you can
see it on the faces of some of those ICE agents that they're in
the process of recognizing what they're doing.
And there's going to be like, it's similar to the the drama
of, you know, people in my family who are in the military
who had to live with the guilt of what they've done, you know,
(39:08):
in, in their quote UN quote, service in certain places
overseas. And so like that, we've never
reconciled with that as a country, certainly.
And like we really haven't begunto to learn about elective
trauma healing. But like, that's the work right
now. And I don't mean to laugh like,
(39:29):
I don't like, you know, but we're gonna have to like,
actively heal trauma while we'reexperiencing it.
What gives you the most hope in the most biggest of times right
now? It's a really good question.
I, I think I never underestimatethe wild cards.
(39:54):
And so I don't have to know how we're going to get through this,
but I can have a great deal of faith that like we're going to
figure out some really radical shit and we're going to be able
like the numbers are not with them.
And that gives me a great deal of hope.
And the it's, it's very similar to what's happened in movements
throughout the world where like.Unfortunately, we have to endure
(40:18):
a horrific amount of brutality for people to wake up and
realize how brutal the actions that are being taken really are.
And so it gives me hope to know that that recognition is is
dawning for people every single day and that a much better world
is possible and that and that we're saving lives with every,
like all the work right now is harm reduction.
(40:40):
Thank you so much. And last question is talk about
your attire, your choice of attire and what brought you to
this, to this, to this, to this decision to address up as a nun.
I'm I'm curious of the context. I think that the idea of a clown
nun is just really funny, you know, And I think like, I was
(41:02):
raised Catholic, so there's somedrama there.
I'm sure that I haven't been back yet.
And I think like costuming and the symbolism right now is
really important and and the waythat like the media is
portraying things. And so I'm really, I just find
it kind of fun to be able to throw on a non costume.
And you know, there's a lot of fun, you know, puns that can
come with it too, but it's a badhabit.
(41:24):
But. Have you, have you like dressed
in dragon? Other personalities?
I'm very curious about other personas you've dressed up as.
Yeah, I mean I need to do more. I have AI have an HR lady drag
character. I would love to see that.
I I have not seen that one, but that is hilarious.
(41:48):
I think we're in, we're all in need of more.
HRHR is a drag, so you know. Oh my goodness that is
hilarious. Do you have you worked in HR?
Yeah, I've been in HR for a longtime.
Oh my goodness, Oh my goodness, it says.
Acting like, you know, you have to kind of be a little
subversive to, to do good in some.
(42:09):
Environments too. And I wanted to say in closing,
thank you so much for being on my show at the last minute.
And, and also because I, I brought you on because I have so
much respect for the work that you've been doing, but also, you
know what you have shared online.
And I know that it's important for me to protect your safety in
this too. But I want to say that it really
(42:31):
means a lot for you to come on and share so much of your
knowledge and wisdom on this. I think that these are the kinds
of stories that are coming from Chicago and the surrounding
suburbs. And I think this is very
important to like really show that this is an important that
(42:51):
that we're not a helpless city like we are a very strong and
responsive cities. So I think that is something I
hope gives a lot of of a memorial boost to other cities
and towns that are starting to ramp up of what's happening.
Yeah, it's a crazy time. So I really appreciate the work
(43:14):
that you're doing and thank you for having me on.
Yeah, and please stay safe and continue to do the great work
and hope that we all continue toprotect each other and stay
vigilant. You too.
And thanks, Randy. I really appreciate.
Hey everyone, welcome to the Bunmi Chronicles podcast.
This is another emergency edition of the podcast as I have
been covering the current ice rates going on in Chicagoland
area. So I am joined with a person
named Sister Mary Clarence. They are a very good friend of
mine and we are honoring their privacy and also for safety
(00:28):
purposes. And I also want to give a
trigger warning that there will be mentions of ICE and this may
include potential violent experiences associated with the
Chicago ICE raids. And the time stamp right now is
6:41 PM on Tuesday, October 21st.
And so I knew Sister Mary for the last several years in the
(00:49):
LGBTQ spaces, I have watched them share so much about
themselves as a storyteller, as a person battling cancer and
providing professional development guidance and really
been community organizing an OakPark, which is just outside of
Chicago. And I watch them share and talk
about their involvement in the Free Palestine movement, trans
(01:11):
rights, Black Lives Matter, and currently the fight against the
ICE raids in Chicago and the surrounding Chicagoland area.
So I want to say welcome to the show, It's great to have you on.
And how are you navigating this month since the start of the ICE
raids and how has that affected you and the community that you
(01:34):
live in? Thanks so much, Randy, and I
really appreciate the chance to be here and and to talk about
this and all the work that you're doing to, you know, help
bring context and like help people understand what is
happening. And so I think like a lot of us
have really seen major shifts inlike the culture and the actions
(01:54):
that are happening in and aroundChicago and through these sort
of collar communities that, you know, circle Chicago, because
Cicero, for example, is right next to Oak Park.
Cicero has the highest percentage of Hispanic
population and Latino populationin Illinois, 90%.
And so we're seeing a lot of ICEraids really target communities
where, like, the most vulnerablepeople, people who are coming in
(02:17):
and out of hospitals, in and outof schools, courts, work,
laundromats, people who are, youknow, trying to build a roof on
a house and are left, you know, literally dangling off the side.
Today a friend of mine was, I'm sorry, actually yesterday it's
been kind of a blur. A friend of mine who's an
attorney was kidnapped by ICE, detained by ICE because he was
(02:39):
blowing a whistle. And you know, he's a lawyer,
he's a litigator, he's AUS citizen that was outside of his
kids school where his kids go to2nd grade.
And like, it's, it's really hitting all of us in so many
different ways because we're seeing a new level of brutality.
We're seeing, we're kind of useda lot of us who've been involved
(02:59):
in activism or protests have been used to, you know, the ways
that police operate. And certainly there's a history
of like, you know, Chicago police being violent, but this
is a whole different level of escalation and brutality and
chemical warfare just really being launched with no warnings.
And that's also, you know, beingfought in the courtrooms right
now. We're seeing a lot of different
(03:22):
cases that are like, fortunatelythe the judges are are saying,
hey, wait a minute, hang on. But right now the federal agents
are moving a lot faster and we're starting to see the
cooperation in different forms. It's like a very interesting
line between the way that state police and local police are
operating and not necessarily protecting people, but
protecting federal operations, and it's messed up.
(03:44):
Oak Park is in a very unique area.
It's next to Chicago. It's next to Cicero, Berwyn
which you had mentioned is has the highest Latin X population.
Also, it's also worthy to note that Betty White was born in Oak
Park. I'm down here.
Ernest Hemingway and Frank LloydWright are from Oak Park.
(04:06):
What can you share about the demographics of Oak Park and
what makes it very unique in this in this situation?
Oak Park has really celebrated diversity on a couple of levels,
especially in the past 50 years.And Oak Park was one of only a
few communities in the country to ever guarantee residents that
sale prices would never go down and actually had an insurance
(04:29):
program for a short time when they did a huge push for racial
inclusion. There's been, it's been a
subject of documentaries like America to Me that was filmed at
the high school about the history of race relations and
the present tensions because there's still, you know, racism
in Oak Park. There's still a percentage of
people who voted for this administration who are
(04:51):
celebrating, you know, sometimesquietly.
Oak Park's not a place where, you know, people tend to to be
pretty vocal. I can, as a queer person, I can
reliably depend upon the police to defend me and my queerness
and to be interested in stoppinghate crimes, which is different
than a lot of other communities.But we still have a lot of work
(05:12):
to do. And there's still a lot of
tensions and violence that goes back, you know, a long, long
time. But it's also a place where
we've been able to put forward alot of sanctuary status
protection. And our current village
administration is very committedto, you know, being able to
protect people. And there's also a strong
(05:33):
history here of community groupsthat sheltered hundreds of
refugees when those folks were being shipped up on a bus and
just dropped off in the middle of winter from Texas earlier a
couple years ago. And, and a lot of community,
there's a lot of goodwill in thecommunity and a lot of community
support, but even stuff as simple as like the SNAP funding
(05:55):
getting cut in a week, we're expecting to see a lot more need
at the food pantries. And, and there's a lot more
people kind of ramping up support around places like
schools because we're seeing icerates happen here too.
Even though, you know, we were alittle bit at the forefront of
getting some of the sanctuary protections in years ago.
(06:17):
That's that's also part of what's made us a target under
this administration. What you what you have
experienced with Oak Park so farfrom the local government side?
What has the response been from Governor Pritzker and the state
officials to Oak Park and what has Oak Park's response been in
(06:40):
terms of how they have respondedto both ice raids, but also with
Oak Park Police? I think that's certainly
something to really distinguish and, and I think it's very
important to us to understand where is Oak Park Police role in
this because I think this has been the confusion for a lot of
(07:00):
residents from Broadview to different communities in Chicago
right now. I mean, and I obviously can't
speak for the Village of Oak Park or the Oak Park Police
Department, you know, in any capacity.
But just from my own observations, I think there is
like a lot of like trying to figure out and a lot of behind
the scenes, I'm assuming there'sa lot of power struggles, like
at the state level because, you know, the state police report
(07:23):
into Pritzker's office, but Pritzker's on the TV saying that
we're going to protect people and be the front lines of
protection. And then we're seeing the state
police, you know, actively beating people with their sticks
out in Broadview. And, you know, they're running
interference for the feds and stepping between, you know,
they're they're blocking off streets and, and blocking off
(07:44):
the means of of stopping ICE agents going in and out of those
facilities, you know, with people that they've kidnapped.
And right now, the Broadview mayor has essentially created
protest hours. And she's talking about the
protesters being privileged people who are interrupting the
community. But there's also, like a lot of
(08:05):
folks talking about ICE as the new slave trade.
And so I don't think, like, it'sa really, there's a really big
narrative battle that's being, you know, fought at very local
levels where, you know, people'sideologies and their way of
looking at things is shifting really rapidly.
Because, you know, from my lens,there's a lot of private prison
money and private military contracting money being dumped
(08:30):
into, you know, facilities like Alligator Alcatraz are a prime
example of like, you know, we'reseeing people celebrate the idea
of like people being eaten by alligators and hundreds of
people are missing. And in the Broadview facility
that's supposed to be a temporary processing space where
people are, you know, held for afew hours before they're moved
(08:51):
into an actual actual either like deportation or wherever,
like they they'd go. People are being held in, in a
facility that doesn't, it's not designed for overnight.
And there's children in there. People have described the
conditions as being like, you know, utterly disgusting and
like they can't breathe. And the smell is so thick.
(09:12):
There's not like, you know, the human waste and, and, and the
body odor and there's not showers and hundreds of people
are inside a building that's notdesigned to house people at all.
And there's no accountability for this.
And, and that's very concerning and alarming that we're seeing
like some of the like, it's really good to see people
(09:34):
standing up and for the rights of Illinois citizens and for the
rights of people who are in Illinois, even if they're not
citizens. But I'm very concerned about the
gap between what's being said onTV and what's actually like
being done by the police on the street.
And the media is not reporting it necessarily.
Some of the media is, but it's all over the place.
(09:54):
Yeah, which also lends me to howare how is the Oak Park
community responding to the ICE raids in terms of as far as
community members in with schools and hospitals and and
institutions and other spaces. I'm I'm very curious to see if
you could really share about what you have observed so far in
(10:16):
these different spaces. Yeah.
I mean, I think like a lot of different.
The cool thing is, is that there's already a lot of
different groups that already understand and have urgency
behind them. So without like kind of going
into too many details that would, you know, not necessarily
they might not necessarily want public.
I think there's a lot of groups that are that are really setting
(10:37):
up for, you know, how do we how do we help be the sand and the
gears? How do we slow things down?
There's already been instances of people detained in court
battles and, and community rallying support around people
who've been detained and gettingthem out of facilities.
And like, that's part of the hidden vulnerability.
(10:59):
Like, like they're the, it's notthe, it seems like the
Department of Justice's lawyers can't necessarily keep up with
the amount of filings that are happening in court.
And it remains to be seen if thefederal shutdown is going to
shut down courts. And like, if they're going to be
able to process some of this stuff is sort of like yet to be
determined, but there's a lot ofdifferent responses happening
(11:21):
at, you know, the institutions themselves are working to figure
out how to keep people safe. Groups of parents and teachers
and other, you know, people who share an interest in protecting
children are making sure that our schools stay safe.
And, you know, I think like, I'mnot 100% clear on, you know, has
there been an issue with, because I know that there was
(11:42):
the there was incidences of ice staging at Village Hall in Oak
Park and they closed the parkinglot to anyone who wasn't there
for official village business. And so like, that's the only
more direct confrontation that I've seen happen.
But more and more, more and moreelected officials have been
(12:06):
visiting Broadway facilities anddemanding access from, you know,
senators to local legislators. I don't think Robin or
Pritzker's been there. And I think it would be really
important for him to get out andactually see that in person,
because I've seen him March downtown and say that he's in
the middle of action. But I really want to see
Pritzker show up at the Broadview ICE facility and and
(12:26):
see the way that some of these things are happening, especially
around how the state police are behaving.
Because I think that that directly is a prime example of
something that that contradicts our ability to to actually
create sanctuary here. And then a few days ago was the
No Kings protest in Chicago, which through a large, I don't
(12:50):
know what the final numbers are,but it's in the hundreds of
thousands. And and it's also, and I think
this is kind of a struggle of mine personally, because as a
person who's been very jaded forthe last decade and like, do we
have to do this shit again? Do we like, are people very
(13:10):
serious about this? And is this going to be like
another one off? Because I think like the
oppressors are not going to justsimply bow down, especially if
we are kindly asking them to do that.
I mean, I mean, what happened onJanuary 6th is a darn good
(13:31):
example of it. So I feel like do we have to get
into, and I'm not going to, you know, encourage this, but like,
do we have encourage like a French Revolution or like, what
does this, what is this going totake?
And I think the question is fromthe No Kings protest, what have
you observed from being there and and how do you feel like
(13:55):
this might translate into transformational work,
especially for those who are taking the taking it more
seriously? Yeah.
And I think like, you know, on the optimistic side, a lot more
people are waking up every day and a lot more people are really
putting together the pieces we've seen that like.
(14:16):
And I want to connect a couple links here too, because, you
know, a year and a half, two years ago, when we were talking
about Gaza as a genocide, peoplewere arguing with that.
And there's not a lot of that arguing happening now.
And everybody's real clear, you know, that that's been a
genocide and that that the US and all the administrations have
been really complicit in making that happen.
(14:38):
And I think more and more peopleare understanding that.
Like, you know, we're living in a dictatorship now and more
people are. And I don't mean everybody.
I don't think everybody's reallyhad that recognition.
But I see more and more people having it every day where we
like. If you look at history, what did
somebody say? If you understand history, the
future's not a mystery. And there's not been any
(15:00):
dictatorships that have just, you know, left on their own
accord, but there are a lot of examples of them folding because
of their own corruption and their own incompetence.
And like, I think Trump is out to crash the the economy and the
other billionaires are are obviously complicit in that.
And there's a lot of like, you know, vying for power at a huge
(15:20):
level. And but all of this is connected
back to a lot of things we were warned about with the military
industrial complex, prison complex is, you know, the
weapons industries, all these groups that profit a large
amount from war. And this is the boomerang of
those empires coming home to roost that have always been here
for a lot of groups like black, a lot of black people have been
sitting on the sidelines and, you know, justifiably like, hey,
(15:44):
this is a battle that we've got to wait for a lot of people to
wake up. And there's an uncomfortable
space I've heard with a lot of, you know, non white people kind
of like, hey, I'm not trying to cheer on that.
Now this is happening to white people, but it's kind of there's
a certain like odd satisfaction in recognizing like having like
watching people have those awakening moments and realize
(16:04):
like they're vulnerable too. They're not safe under this, you
know, and that's and I think that that requires like it's
really deep. It'll hit a lot of people's
trauma buttons and finding out that they're not safe, that
their privilege is not protecting them, that this is
like, and if we see that in Oak Park, like, and kind of to bring
it back to the no Kings protest the last time around, I saw one
(16:26):
of those Harris, like if, if you'd voted for Harris, we'd be
at brunch right now with signs. And it like drove me nuts.
Cuz, you know, that's, I feel like that's kind of that
symbolic of like, yeah, you guysweren't protesting this when it
was being set up. You know, this is and, and we've
got a lot of work to do, but I think as people wake up, the
numbers are not on their side. They've had staffing challenges
(16:49):
with ICE police and military. They can't, they don't have the
number. They couldn't keep Afghanistan,
and that's 20 million people in that country.
And, you know, our whole military couldn't take that
over. And they can't take over the US
And the US is really heavily armed.
And there's a lot of folks who like that.
You know, they've been waving those Don't Tread on Me signs
(17:10):
for years. They're not awake yet.
They haven't realized they're being dread on, you know.
But back when I lived in rural America, that was part of the
like, Hey, do you think the billionaires are on your side,
buddy? And then you'd see them go like,
I guess they're not. And you're like, right, It's
not. And it's not that complicated.
Like at a certain level. So pretty soon, I think a lot of
a lot of folks are going to be alot more aware that, you know,
(17:30):
if you want to play us, US versus them.
Like, is this really worth transpeople not being able to go to
the bathroom or play basketball?Like now that you can't sell all
your crops and your community's dying, Like, was that worth it
because you you don't like people with nuts in a dress?
Is that that's stupid? That's really stupid.
(17:52):
So let's not be that stupid. Let's let's have communities and
healthcare, you know what I mean?
Yeah, I, I have been speechless for the past, I don't know how
many years. And it is very perplexing to see
the lanes that Trump voters willgo to bite the nose off.
(18:13):
I mean it, it's it really amazesme and I don't know where.
I mean, I could spend like an hour on it and I'm not, I'm
going to spare you in the audience of my grievances.
But I, I think about what do white folks like yourself?
How can you like, share the knowledge, but also like, what
(18:35):
knowledge do you have to impart on many white folks, suburban
folks who have not been involvedor haven't been fully engaged in
this work but are trying to do good?
What's what steps should they consider taking?
I think like it's, it's a lot ofpeople and it, this might be
(18:55):
like some kind of a symptom of whiteness.
Maybe it's perfectionism or the saviorism.
I'm not sure exactly how to label it, but a lot of white
folks are looking for the perfect solution.
Like if I just reach the right supervisor, I can complain and
it'll go away kind of thing. And that's not, that's not how
this works. And this has been a power
structure. You know, the Heritage
Foundation has built this plan for for decades.
(19:17):
You know, it's not we're, we're behind the 8 ball, Harrison.
So there's got to be a sustainedeffort and there's got to be
like a real, you know, we have to allow ourselves to to shift
and engage with reality and recognize that a lot of people
were right all along and and it's OK for us to be wrong.
Just like it's OK to say, you know what I did grew up in a
(19:39):
racist society. I'm trying to unlearn racism.
That's fine. That's a good thing.
It's not like unpacking my racism isn't something that's
like a one and done. Either I'm racist or I'm not
Either I'm homophobic or I'm notor I'm transphobic or I'm not.
And in the same way, one call isn't going to make a huge
difference. But what can I do every day?
What are little actions I can take if I can call and bother my
(20:01):
local elected official like Governor Pritzker's office?
We got 75100 calls made the other day just saying like,
where is Pritzker wisely made out to Broadview?
And because they were telling people like, Oh, well, it's a
federal facility, so you got to call your senators and like, we
got their phone lines shut down.Because like, that's ridiculous.
(20:21):
And he's the Illinois governor and go get to the facility.
It's actually not that hard to get them to respond to stuff.
It doesn't take more than like you get 5 people to call 5
people to call 5 people all of asudden, you know, the governor's
responding. And he was on TV later that
night responding to exactly whatwe were talking about in the
messages. So like, you know, it doesn't,
it's not even though like, it sometimes feel like we have to
(20:42):
make dozens of calls every day. OK, that might take 5-10
minutes. That's OK, Make some calls, show
up to protests, like especially in like the riskier areas.
And people have to learn how to like analyze the risks involved
and and keep themselves safe, which can be like, it's
perfectly legit to stand across the street and just scream
(21:03):
you're a bunch of fragile littleman babies at a bunch of ice
people. You know what I mean?
Like you don't have to be withinswinging range or them get
yourself a bullhorn, you know, dress like a clown.
They love these inflatables. Cool.
Like, be disruptive. Anything we can do right now to
be radically queer is great. Because they can't stand that.
They're horrified. They're terrified of queerness.
That's why they're attacking it all the time.
(21:24):
So like, being radically queer in their faces is a lot more
effective than we realize. And we're very funny, too.
And we're very petty. And I love that about our
community because totally. I think I think someone said it,
like one of my guests said it best, like, queer people are the
best at protests and this. And she's from Korea.
And I'm like, yeah, freaking lutely we are.
(21:45):
Totally, totally. So like I'm, I'm, I'm
encouraging like places like OakPark, like hire some drag Queens
to help you out, you know what Imean?
Like get you some costumes, havesome fun with this.
You know what I mean? Like pay your queer people, but
get help and, and figure out where to tap in.
And also just the mutual aid level, because I think we don't
talk about how that's actually aform of protest too.
(22:06):
But like, we're going to need a lot more people at food banks.
We're going to need a lot more distribution systems of like
getting food to people that can't leave the house for a
variety of reasons. And these systems are being
purposely attacked. That's been the Trump
administration's plan all along.Steve Bannon said, you know,
almost a decade ago that they were going to do arson in all
directions and they're going to light as many fires because the
(22:29):
firefighters that get exhausted running around trying to put
them out because this is life saving stuff.
So just getting engaged with allthat stuff makes a huge
difference because you also build relationships and that's
the core of like relational organizing.
It's so useful to know the helpful people in your
neighborhood. Who are the people running the
food bank? Who are the people, you know,
(22:49):
prepare, doing safety planning around schools, Who are the
people helping out? Like knowing the helpers is
super valuable. Like those are people you really
want to know. And so it's just very much in
everybody's self-interest to like build as tight knit a
commute, throw block parties, dofundraising, you know what I
mean? Like all these groups could use
money, rapid response, mutual aid.
Like there's a ton of need to create different economic
(23:10):
structures, you know, throw, do a drag show, pay drag
performers, you know, charge tickets.
There's a lot of stuff we need to.
Do donate to and donate to your local Etsy witches too.
That part that. Part I know I'm probably gonna
be put on the FBI one at this after this, but that's fine.
But anyways, I also wonder aboutlike you as a parent because you
(23:35):
have a child. I am curious to know what you
have learned from your child's school, but also how is your
child feeling in all of this? Because I know that you talk
about like teaching and helping to.
I hate the word radicalizing in a sense.
It's really it's really human rights if we're being very plain
(23:57):
and simple here. But yeah, I I wonder about how
have you been able to think about this as a parent?
So something that I didn't expect that I think is really
been has been really beautiful was that I, I got involved
teaching sex Ed many years ago in the community.
And that was because partly because I wanted to be ready for
those conversations for my kid, you know, by the time she got
(24:20):
around to adolescence. But what I didn't expect was
that like the book Psychology ofFascism starts off with why
sexual repression is the heart of fascism.
And so it turns out that teaching people like, hey, we
have a really values aligned curriculum.
Everybody deserves consent. Like we believe everybody
deserves consent. Everybody deserves pleasure in
their body. Everybody deserves dignity,
(24:42):
respect, human rights, you know,and to just be able to
experience joy in life is like a, you know, and I believe in
the ideals of like freedom from fear, but those are aspirational
and we don't live in a society that actually actively allows
everyone. Those are seen as privileges,
dignity, joy, freedom, expression.
(25:03):
The people are trying to take that away.
You know, immigrants represent the right to migrate.
Trans people represent the freedom of self-expression.
Palestinians represent the freedom of self determination,
you know, and there's, there's and, and the right to defend
yourself. And so like, there's a lot of
like the ways that these rights are taken away really teach us a
(25:25):
lot about like how can we move in safe ways?
How can we, how can we get our like, how, how am I going to
enforce my boundaries? And, you know, and how do I move
safely? So that's kind of been a lot of,
you know, for many years. That's been a lot of the
conversations like, hey, how do we not, how do we get prepared
for this stuff without traumatizing our kids?
(25:45):
And how do we teach our kids to live really rich, full lives
with all the love they deserve, even though there's going to be
some incredible hardships comingdown the road?
And like, the answer is community.
I mean, the answer is like, it'srelationships.
And like how we have relationships is everything as
far as I'm concerned, you know? And not to oversimplify it, but
(26:07):
like that there's an Erykah Badulyric, right?
Like, I pick my friends, like I pick my fruit, you know?
And if we can get rid of the rotten apples in our lives,
we're doing great. And that's like creating our own
sanctuaries for ourselves and our own spaces where we can be
loved, experience love, connect with each other and be safe, you
(26:27):
know, and, and like, that's beautiful.
Yeah. As a person who's not a parent,
I also wonder what you're observing with your child's
classmates and also how are theynavigating this fear and this
uncertainty? I mean, I, I don't know what
that's like as a parent. And I cannot imagine what it's
(26:50):
like to be a kid in this, in this day and age.
It's. Really hard.
And I think like alerts, there'sreally big, I mean, especially
in this context of the pandemic,there's been huge spikes in, you
know, mental health needs and kids really struggling with
mental health and anxiety and depression.
And that need is enormous right now.
(27:12):
And the need for safe spaces, like we know affirming spaces
save lives and we need a lot more affirming spaces.
And, and that's super true for trans and queer kids, but it's
also true for kids in general. And they don't get enough safe
affirming spaces. And, you know, there's a lot of
pressure on kids right now and alot of uncertainty.
We talk about what's been effective for other communities
(27:36):
in response to ICE. What have you seen that may not
be so effective? And I'm obviously, you know, I,
I think that this is definitely a judgement call because each
community's tailored very differently.
And I think that's something we do want, I do want to
acknowledge that like off the bat here.
But I, I wonder, like, what has not been working, or at least
(27:58):
what you feel like may not be aseffective.
And I think one of the things that I'm also seeing is we saw
what happened with the Facebook groups and Ice Watch where the
Department of Justice told Mehta, you got suspend this and
Meta. I mean, even though I use
Instagram, Instagram quite a bit, I also am very aware of how
(28:24):
this, this feeds a lot of misinformation and surveillance.
So that's also part of what I, I'm starting to feel is starting
to become less effective. So I'm very curious from your
own experience, what you feel like maybe this might not be the
best idea at this time. Yeah, And I think the digital
surveillance tools is, is really, really scary.
(28:48):
And the possibility of of or what's possible with AI and
surveillance is horrifying. And we're seeing it right now,
like with Palantir getting ICE contracts and the ability of,
you know, like some people speculate that Elon Musk took a
bunch of zip drives and pulled everybody's government data.
And that's exactly what Palantirsoftware is built to do, is to
(29:09):
sort through that. You know, an AI can analyze 300
million people's data in a way that would have taken, you know,
the 1950s CIA would have had hundreds of people working
thousands of hours trying to do the same amount of analysis that
AI is capable of doing to put together.
You know, I don't know what, I don't know how vulnerable, you
(29:30):
know, a lot of those databases are.
And I think that's kind of the, you know, the part people, I
think we're all really scared tolook at that dystopian nightmare
in the, you know, and just stareat it and be like, that's so
evil. How could that even be possible,
especially in a time of climate change?
But I think if people knew how dark it can get and like we're
(29:50):
kind of living in that movie right now where like I've been
joking, we're all time travellers sent to change the
future. Like we have to act now.
Like don't forget the mission. People like act now.
So we don't like end up in that fucking hell, now's the time.
And I think like, action's always the antidote to despair.
(30:11):
So we have to find ways just to keep acting and like, learn from
every interaction. And we can't expect that
perfectionism that like, we're going to know the magical thing
that's going to make it all go away.
We've got to be radically ourselves and fully in our
communities as much as possible.And also, like, you know, we
still need to wash the dishes. It's kind of, it's crazy, but
(30:32):
we're balancing all these thingsand just trying to stay, stay
afloat, you know? Yeah, I think that it's
certainly something that I thinkabout very, very much in my own
work because I know that digitalsurveillance is very real.
There's a lot of risk involved. I think when I start seeing
people doing Facebook groups forno kings, like invites, I'm
(30:55):
like, yeah, this is not a good idea.
Like I'm literally like screaming and I'm like, no, you
cannot be like putting yourself out in the open too.
And also doxing has been very real too, like.
Yeah. Like, I know that I, I know that
you're not the knower of all things when it comes to digital
(31:16):
safety, but I'm like, gosh, how do you navigate through these
different channels, especially when you know, it's very crucial
this is out. This is one of the very few ways
we can get to people. I mean, I know as a podcaster,
as a sub stacker, like I feel the need to like share a lot of
information that's not getting in there.
And I have a fight with algorithms because algorithms
(31:37):
hates me. Although I just got went viral
because because the brand name Monica commentary I had on
TikTok and me dancing to a Stephanie Mills song, which she
reposted. So I'm like, OK, maybe I'm
breaking through in this way andI'm like hoping to get more
people that way. But yeah, like, I think this is
like a battle that I have to deal with in terms of like, how
(31:57):
do I get the information out? But but surveillance is
everything. But also, how do you protect
your own safety in the work thatyou do?
Yeah, I mean, I, you know, I, I don't feel fully protected, you
know, and I, I feel like that's part of the, the thing that I'm
recognizing too, is that like for most of human history, we,
we, we weren't living with any kind of like sense that our
(32:18):
lives would be guaranteed to go in a nice little like college,
house, marriage, retirement job,you know, career kind of thing.
Like that's all a very recent invention that turns out wasn't
very stable. And so, like, you know, if we're
going to reinvent the economy, we're also going to have to like
ditch the notion of like this stability did not in a sense of
(32:38):
like, because I don't I don't know what it's like to just
live. TA Nehisi Coates talked about
like living without hope in likehis visioning of what it meant
to like be enslaved. You know, that there was
hundreds. Some people were like lived
their whole life with like the quote UN quote, end of slavery
being hundreds of years away. And so like, you know, they
(32:59):
like, how do you live without hope?
And I don't have a like, and that's pretty bleak, you know,
because I think you can still have joy, you know what I mean?
Like there's still ways. And that's part of like the
preciousness of life. Like we got a party like it's
1999 right now because it's thatlike building that joy is also
essential too. But that doesn't mean that like
(33:20):
the future is guaranteed. And we have to find a way to
like, live a good meaningful life without, you know, like I
can't control what what's going to happen by 2040.
What have you learned about yourown missteps the last couple of
years? I think that we had talked about
perfectionism and I think that there is there is a lack of
(33:41):
grace that's being given to a lot of people who are really
trying to genuinely do good. And unfortunately, that causes
mistakes can't happen, especially in rapid response
moments. And burnout issues are very
common in the nonprofit grassroots collective work.
(34:05):
I think it'd be very interestingto hear about your experiences,
what you've experienced as missteps, as learning
opportunities. Because I really do think that
folks still have this perfectionism or this people
pleasing tendencies. Like, I don't want to get
canceled. I don't want to get kicked out
of the group. I'm feel like I'm going to
offend other, you know, BIPOC folks as a white person or our
(34:29):
wolf and trans folks as a SIS person.
I'm very curious about how you navigated and how you have you
had to learn and repair trust with folks that might have felt
upset. Wow.
Yeah, that's a great set of questions there, too.
And like, I don't know that there's a right or wrong answer,
but I'm thinking about like, youknow, I didn't know for a long
(34:52):
time how valuable it was to be polarizing and to be able just
to lean into the reality that like, if 9 out of 10 people
don't like me, that's fine. Like, I want to find the one
person out of 10 that I can really connect with.
And not to say fuck the rest of them, but you know, yeah, fuck
the rest of them. And like, if and it.
And I'm not like, I think it's so easy to grow up in this
(35:16):
society and accidentally get so wrapped up in everybody else's
opinions that we're just layeredin expectations about what our
life could look like. And seeking out like the pathway
to breaking those is taking healthy risks.
And everyone gets to decide for themselves, like, what the
Hell's a healthy risk versus like, I mean, there's unhealthy
risks we could probably label real quick.
(35:36):
But like, you know, like, what does it mean to like for me,
wearing a dress on the train in public was like a huge moment.
And and if I'd done that 20 years earlier, wow, my life
would have been different. And it's just address.
But I didn't realize until I wasout, you know, on the CTA in a
moo moo. I was like, well, I feel
(35:56):
paranoid. And then I'm like after years,
like, OK, great. You know, I can tell somebody to
fuck off if they have a problem.But like actually like courage
isn't necessary unless you're scared.
You don't need any courage otherwise.
So the only like we got to do shit that we're afraid of if we
know that it needs to be done and that like just finding ways
(36:16):
to build our own courage. It's great if those can be done
in safe ways because there's a lot of unsafe shit coming.
So we're going to need the courage.
Like we don't have the guaranteeof safety in the same way that
we used to, and we got to adapt accordingly.
Yeah, I think that's beautifullysaid because it's something I
was thinking about this morning.I was like, like, like to be
(36:37):
ambitious, to be brave, you haveto piss off a lot of your allies
totally. And I think that's something I
think about all the time becauseI know in this past year I've
had this awakening in some ways where I have become more
outspoken. I also think Wellbutrin, the
medication to kind of has got memore jazzy these days.
But like, but I think that I find myself now that I'm in my
(37:00):
40s and I know we're but I thinkwe're in similar in age.
Like you get to a point where we've had to work so hard to be
validated by people that never under were willing to understand
us and that we just couldn't fitinto this tiny little box.
(37:21):
And and I think that you get to a point where like, fuck it, I
am not going to just continue like this.
And I don't want this to spread into the places that I work at
or the community spaces that I'min because yes, am I scared
sometimes? Absolutely.
Do I always want to rock the boat?
(37:41):
Not always. But there's also a point in
place like y'all like this is a life and death situation.
And I want to at the end of the day when I'm, you know,
hopefully when I'm like 80 yearsold and then getting brought to
like show and tell, you know, ask like, like, you know, at a,
(38:02):
at a grade school. Like what, where were you during
such and such time? Like right now in 2025?
And I'll say this is what I did.This is what I was able to do,
not as a way to show off, but it's more like at least I had a
conscience done and that I am not going to live with that
guilt for the rest of my life and into eternity.
(38:25):
Totally, and that's like the themost beautiful thing about our
hearts is like how we bleed, youknow, and that like the the fact
that we're experiencing like being able to be in a space to
witness like the heartbreak of all that that's happening.
And all that that means is is it's horrible.
It's really hard, but it's also like evidence that like we've
(38:47):
got big hearts and big love because the people like you can
see it on the faces of some of those ICE agents that they're in
the process of recognizing what they're doing.
And there's going to be like, it's similar to the the drama
of, you know, people in my family who are in the military
who had to live with the guilt of what they've done, you know,
(39:08):
in, in their quote UN quote, service in certain places
overseas. And so like that, we've never
reconciled with that as a country, certainly.
And like we really haven't begunto to learn about elective
trauma healing. But like, that's the work right
now. And I don't mean to laugh like,
(39:29):
I don't like, you know, but we're gonna have to like,
actively heal trauma while we'reexperiencing it.
What gives you the most hope in the most biggest of times right
now? It's a really good question.
I, I think I never underestimatethe wild cards.
(39:54):
And so I don't have to know how we're going to get through this,
but I can have a great deal of faith that like we're going to
figure out some really radical shit and we're going to be able
like the numbers are not with them.
And that gives me a great deal of hope.
And the it's, it's very similar to what's happened in movements
throughout the world where like.Unfortunately, we have to endure
(40:18):
a horrific amount of brutality for people to wake up and
realize how brutal the actions that are being taken really are.
And so it gives me hope to know that that recognition is is
dawning for people every single day and that a much better world
is possible and that and that we're saving lives with every,
like all the work right now is harm reduction.
(40:40):
Thank you so much. And last question is talk about
your attire, your choice of attire and what brought you to
this, to this, to this, to this decision to address up as a nun.
I'm I'm curious of the context. I think that the idea of a clown
nun is just really funny, you know, And I think like, I was
(41:02):
raised Catholic, so there's somedrama there.
I'm sure that I haven't been back yet.
And I think like costuming and the symbolism right now is
really important and and the waythat like the media is
portraying things. And so I'm really, I just find
it kind of fun to be able to throw on a non costume.
And you know, there's a lot of fun, you know, puns that can
come with it too, but it's a badhabit.
(41:24):
But. Have you, have you like dressed
in dragon? Other personalities?
I'm very curious about other personas you've dressed up as.
Yeah, I mean I need to do more. I have AI have an HR lady drag
character. I would love to see that.
I I have not seen that one, but that is hilarious.
(41:48):
I think we're in, we're all in need of more.
HRHR is a drag, so you know. Oh my goodness that is
hilarious. Do you have you worked in HR?
Yeah, I've been in HR for a longtime.
Oh my goodness, Oh my goodness, it says.
Acting like, you know, you have to kind of be a little
subversive to, to do good in some.
(42:09):
Environments too. And I wanted to say in closing,
thank you so much for being on my show at the last minute.
And, and also because I, I brought you on because I have so
much respect for the work that you've been doing, but also, you
know what you have shared online.
And I know that it's important for me to protect your safety in
this too. But I want to say that it really
(42:31):
means a lot for you to come on and share so much of your
knowledge and wisdom on this. I think that these are the kinds
of stories that are coming from Chicago and the surrounding
suburbs. And I think this is very
important to like really show that this is an important that
(42:51):
that we're not a helpless city like we are a very strong and
responsive cities. So I think that is something I
hope gives a lot of of a memorial boost to other cities
and towns that are starting to ramp up of what's happening.
Yeah, it's a crazy time. So I really appreciate the work
(43:14):
that you're doing and thank you for having me on.
Yeah, and please stay safe and continue to do the great work
and hope that we all continue toprotect each other and stay
vigilant. You too.
And thanks, Randy. I really appreciate.
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