Stop Shrinking Yourself: The Work of Liberation Post-Divorce w/Nisha Mody

This week on The Bánh Mì Chronicles, host Randy Kim sits down with the incredible Nisha Mody (she/her)—a certified Liberatory Life Coach, Facilitator, and Writer—for a profound conversation about self-compassion, unlearning harmful beliefs, and showing up authentically in relationships.

Nisha, who is currently writing a memoir about her divorce, shares the raw, deeply personal story of her toxic marriage to an Indian man that ended a decade ago. She transparently discusses the immense work required to unlearn the practices and beliefs she internalized that ultimately caused her harm.

• The complex journey of grief and healing, particularly navigating the immense loss of her father around the time of her divorce.

• How Nisha had to redefine her self-worth after leaving a toxic dynamic, and her philosophy of self-improvement without shame.

• The essential conversation about navigating and understanding whiteness in her current partnership and how her white partner actively honors her values and centers her growth.

• Nisha’s core belief that centering growth, relationship, and liberation is the path toward meaningful personal and societal transformation.

Nisha’s background spans consulting, recruiting, and librarianship, and she brings all of that accumulated wisdom to her coaching and writing, encouraging us all to stop shrinking ourselves and step into our full power.

Listen in for a conversation that is as vulnerable as it is liberating.

Bio:

Nisha Mody (she/her) is a certified Liberatory Life Coach, Facilitator, and Writer who supports people in cultivating as much compassion for themselves as they do for others so they can stop shrinking themselves to be liked and start showing up for relational liberation. With a background spanning consulting, recruiting, speech-language pathology, and librarianship, Nisha thrives on evolving and self-improvement without shame and inspiring others to do the same. In all her work, she centers growth, relationship, and liberation as pathways for personal and societal transformation. Nisha is writing a memoir about her divorce. She coaches clients one-on-one and in groups and also offers workshops and coaching to organizations. You can find Nisha on Instagram @healinghypegirl, on her website at www.nishaland.com, and you can get the latest updates from her by signing up for her newsletter at https://bit.ly/notesfromnishaland.

Episode Transcript

(00:03):
Hey everyone, this is Randy Kim from the Bunny Chronicles
podcast and I am joined with a familiar face, a good friend,
Nisha Modi. Nisha Modi is a certified
liberatory life coach, facilitator and writer who
supports people in cultivating as much compassion for
themselves as they do for othersso they can stop shrinking

(00:26):
themselves to be liked and startshowing up for relational
liberation. With a background spanning
consulting, recruiting, speech, language, pathology, and
librarianship, Nisha thrives on evolving and self improvement
without shame and inspiring others to do the same.
In all her work, she centers growth, relationship, and

(00:48):
liberation as pathways for personal and societal
transformation. Nisha is writing a memoir about
her divorce. She coaches clients one-on-one
and in groups and also offers workshops and coaching the
organizations. And you can also follow Nisha on
Instagram, which I'm going to send in the show notes.
And also we will be talking about her projects and, and so

(01:13):
much is going on and how I knew Nisha was back.
I have to say 2020, at least that's what I think.
This was during a COVID lockdown.
And I knew, I knew you do the podcasting space originally when
you had your podcast. And I, I resonated a lot with

(01:35):
your work in terms of understanding and understanding
what Wellness means in a very decolonizing mindset.
And I had you on my podcast a couple of years ago and I really
enjoyed this conversation. Many others did.
And we have definitely hung out together a few times.

(01:59):
And I got to say that I have seen so much in your evolution
the last couple of years. You went from being a librarian
to having your own. I hate the word business.
It feels a little, it doesn't. It feels very reductive, like
having your own consulting work and and you've been very much on

(02:25):
social media quite a bit. And it's kind of funny because I
have been jumping back into social media in a big way since
coming back to the podcasting scene.
And I'm like doing silly videos on TikTok and posting touching
grass stuff on Instagram and also getting more hot takes on

(02:46):
the political end or on pop culture and or whatever.
Yeah, I feel like I've been kindof.
So I think with that said, welcome to the show.
And I also wonder about your relationship to social media cuz
I see you on TikTok like every 10 seconds as I'm scrolling like
my God, like how many videos do you have?
I think you and I are competing now.

(03:06):
Yeah, thank you so much for the introduction.
I'm so happy to be back. Yeah, I am on social media.
I actually haven't posted to TikTok in quite some time.
I feel like I get really intenseon a social media platform and
then I like leave it for a couple months.
Like recently I've actually beenreally active on threads, which
I'll probably get back on. I actually like it because I
feel like it's a way, I mean, everything is storytelling.

(03:28):
And that's something that, you know, as, you know, I think that
we're always doing even think that when I coach my clients,
we're storytelling together, youknow, in a different way.
So yeah, sometimes I get on that.
I've been trying to do more sub stack stuff lately, which
probably might, you know, ramp up in 2026.
So, you know, I, I just love to share.

(03:48):
I've always loved to share what's happening with me.
With that being said, social media can be exhausting, you
know, and I do, like you said, Imean, I do, I have my own
business. Like that is how I make a
living. You know, that is 100.
I'm 100% all in and it is a precarious situation, but it is
something I love and I'm so passionate about.
It's been a a weird year for my business, which I'm sure we'll

(04:11):
get into maybe a little bit, butwith especially because I work
with a lot of institutions that get federal money and whatnot.
But yeah, so my relationship with social media has evolved
over time, but I I kind of actually in the beginning of
this year, I'm like, I am like, so not going to be on this.
I'm just going to post up, post up on YouTube, blah, blah, blah.
And it didn't really end up happening.

(04:34):
And I mean, I posted a few things and then I just ended up
getting back on the, the social media train.
But I feel like I've kind of developed a better relationship
with it in that I, I just see itas a way for me to tell my story
and really ground myself into myvalues and what I think people
need, you know, during this timeand also what I have to offer

(04:54):
and how those two things meet each other.
So that's how I'm trying to see it.
With that being said, there havebeen a couple times this year
where my right thumb is in pain from scrolling and posting and
it feels like embarrassing sometimes.
But it is a way that I am able to share and I think right now
more than ever, it's important to share and what's coming up.

(05:19):
Yeah, I feel like for this year,like my relationship to social
media is very interesting. Like there's a lot of things
that do outrage me on a daily basis with what's going on in
Gaza and what's going on with other genocides are happening.
And obviously what is going on with the US government and how

(05:40):
civilians are being treated. I also have this, I also have
this like detached, emotionally detached relationship with
social media, if that makes sense, because like I don't take
it seriously enough. Like I don't get so consumed by
getting into comments. I don't get consumed and getting
to back and forths. I mean, if I do, it's usually

(06:02):
like I'm just making a very funny joke at some, you know,
Nazi and but like I have a senseof humor to the point where it's
like I just like to entertain onsocial media.
Yes, I also want to bring content too.
And that is all to say that the algorithms never likes me
because it's confused as to which direction am I going into

(06:26):
Like I could be doing restaurants, I could be doing
dancing on TikTok, I could be doing self-care.
I could also be doing political hot takes in my podcast.
So there's a lot of different avenues and I feel like I'm kind
of like hitting all of them at the same time and not because,
well, I don't know if it's a dopamine hit that I'm caring

(06:48):
right now, but I just feel like this creative energy has been
like enormous right now for me. And I'm just more like, yeah, I
just want to, you know, be the actor on my own Instagram.
I guess I don't know if that's the best way of putting it.
Just kind of like having fun with it and seeing what happens.
Do you feel that kind of way? Do you feel that kind of

(07:09):
relationship with social media in the in that sense?
Yeah, You know, I think it's interesting.
I yes and no, I do. It's so hard, you know, when I
mean literally these apps are designed to just give us these
dopamine hits. And if you are like running a
business or something like that and you are hoping maybe you get

(07:31):
a client or something comes fromit, you might.
I mean, I know so many people, other business owners where it's
like you don't want to feed intoalgorithm, but if you don't do
the stuff that is trending or whatever you want to call it, no
one's going to see your stuff. And if you're spending your time
creating content, you know, you want it to be seen.

(07:52):
So it's so challenging. I think specifically as a
business owner, because I'm not just doing it as like my
personal platform, I think I'd have a lot less attachment, I
guess, to it or But at the same time, I think what I've been
able to do is just say I'm goingto be true to me.
Because what I've noticed, at least for, you know, my clients

(08:14):
and everything is that people enjoy my storytelling.
They enjoy hearing about me and seeing me genuinely and
authentically. And I feel like the word
authentic has gotten so like overused.
Yeah, overused. But truly like just seeing me in
my wholeness. Maybe that's a better way of
putting it. And I think that that is

(08:36):
received, you know, and that might mean a like or a comment
like I'm not trying to go viral.Actually wrote this on threats
the other day. I was like, I'm not trying to go
viral. And I want people to know that
they don't need to keep themselves small while the
patriarchy is ruling everything over us.
And if I can spread that message, that's what's
important. And it is really hard with all

(08:57):
the doom scrolling. And I just try to engage as much
as I have capacity for. This year specifically has been
interesting in that halfway through the year, you know,
someone reached out to me basically saying that, you know,
I had impacted them so much to leave a relationship.
And I don't even know, you know,anything that was happening.

(09:20):
And you know, this, I literally learned this the weekend after
the ICE raids and everything started happening in LA.
So if it's such an interesting like juxtaposition because it
happened in LA and now it's happening in Chicago.
And as you know, Chicago is where I was born and raised in
the suburbs as well. And so hearing that from her

(09:44):
help me. Recenter why I'm doing what I
do. Not to say that that means I
don't care about what's happening in Palestine and you
know what's happening with ICE. Of course I do.
But it helped me. Recenter What is Nisha here to
do? What is my role?
What can I do? Because I cannot do everything.
So how am I going to put my focus on what I can do to impact
people's lives? Because I know I am and you are

(10:05):
too, Randy, like we all are in our own ways, while still
lifting up marginalized voices, while still speaking up for the
people who are being harmed by this current administration as
well as previous administrationstoo.
It's not like Palestine, you know, October 7th was under the
Biden administration. And decades and decades before,
what's been happening in Palestine has been under all the
administrations, right? And so how am I constantly

(10:27):
calling attention to that while also calling attention to how
patriarchy keeps us small and how patriarchy and colonialism
and capitalism has like, how arewe noticing the voice in our
head and how it is colonized, how it has, how we're, we're

(10:48):
equating our, our work with our worth, which is like capitalism.
How are we valuing ourselves based on the male gaze, you
know, and how does that actuallyimpact how we show up for the
collective? So that's something that I've,
you know, been able to do betterthe second-half of this year.
And instead of just being in despair because it's so hard not

(11:11):
to, and that focus has really helped me.
We'll see how long that lasts because things are just
happening one thing after the next.
And it's just, it's awful. It, I mean, I don't have any
words, you know, I mean, you've been doing some great episodes
recently, you know, to, you know, pay attention to what's
happening in Chicago, which I'm so happy, especially, you know,

(11:32):
I lived in the city for 10 years.
And so just hearing about what'shappening on the very streets
that I lived on and was around and the places I went to, it's
just like, it's very surreal. So.
So. Yeah.
Yeah, I really appreciate that and I really appreciate you, you
know, sharing your experiences. And I always, I always feel that

(11:54):
like social media to me gives mea reason to meet people in real
life. And that has always been the
intention behind my connections.Like I don't get fixated by how
many followers or all that fun stuff.
It's like it's a waste of energyfor me.
I think it's the relationships that I've built.

(12:15):
Maybe it's because it's us old millennials that have been
trained to do things in real life in person.
So I think that there's that component that feels very like,
I guess it's not necessary old school.
It shouldn't be old school because it is something that
that we all need for all generations in order for us to

(12:37):
thrive and to create thoughtful partnering and collaborations.
And I am interested in, in recently in the social media
landscape that you've been sharing is you're a divorce and
you've been divorced for over 10, about 10 years already.

(12:58):
And you have talked, you have been very open and honest about
your your first marriage and whyit created so much trauma and
what led you to leave and what you had to unlearn in those ten

(13:19):
years. And I feel like, you know, when
I had you on my podcast about maybe four years ago, I believe
we weren't really talking much about, I think we were just
glossing that over. Why do you feel like now is a
good time to really talk about that past?
Yeah, so I started writing my memoir about my divorce about a

(13:41):
year ago. With that being said, I've
always been relatively, I've always been open about it
because for me, it was the birthof Nisha truly like me being
unapologetically me and me realizing how much of my life I
have been in a trauma response. And I have been very hyper
vigilant. And for those that don't know

(14:02):
what that means, it's like someone you're just like always
walking on egg shells waiting for the other shoe to drop, like
wondering when something's goingwrong.
And I grew up that right way. You know, my mom was very much
like that. And that's why my memoir is also
going to be about my mother wound.
And I grew up that way. And it's almost like this hyper
vigilance was normal to me, so much so that after I got

(14:22):
divorced, I bought, you know, I got my own place, my my own
apartment just for me. And I had I remember getting all
like the furniture I wanted, decorating it, my place, how I
wanted, like really making get my own.
And I've gotten everything and I'm never forgot sitting on the
couch thinking, you know, this is the moment I was waiting for

(14:43):
all my stuff the way I want. I have my own place.
I'm divorced like my divorce. I know a lot of people.
There's a lot of grief after divorce.
For me, it was just like celebration.
I think a lot of my pain was during the marriage more so, but
I thought that would be the moment.
But I actually found myself likebored.
Like it's in boredom was dangerous to me because it was

(15:07):
so unfamiliar, because I feel like I just grew up around such
hyper vigilance and chaos to always be worried about
someone's going to say or think or if I might be doing something
wrong or someone's going to get mad at me.
And yeah, so I feel like after Igot divorced, I went back to
grad school. I started writing actually,
right as I got divorced. I finally, you know, I, I say

(15:30):
that, you know, whenever I writemy memoir, if anyone interviews
me and asked me that, the question that so many people ask
writers, like how long have you been writing?
I'm going to say I started in myearly 30s because so often
writers are like ever since I could pick up a pencil or
whatever. And I'm not knocking that, but I
also think it's really importantto to name how sometimes our
creative outlets come to us later in life.

(15:52):
And don't get me wrong, I alwaysenjoyed writing.
Like I, I would take writing an essay in college a million times
over taking a test because I loved doing it.
I just never thought about it aslike a career.
So sure, I was a writer before that, but I never really like, I
had like A blog like while I wasmarried, but I really like
stepped into my truest self-expression after my

(16:14):
divorce. But then I went back to grad
school. A lot of the reason I think it's
taken me so long to start this memoir is more like life.
And at the same time, I think I had a lot of healing to do.
So, you know, after I got divorced, you know, there was a
lot I was realizing about my relationship with my mom.
And I was really coming from a place of blame to her, blaming
her for how, you know, she raised me, blaming her for how

(16:38):
hypervigilant she made me all this blah, blah, blah, blah,
blah. I have.
And, you know, I've been divorced for a little over 11
years now. I have really come to a
beautiful place with my mom where, yes, I feel like there
were certain things in ways I was raised that I'm not happy
about. But in the past few years, and I
know this is going to sound weird, but I really started to

(16:58):
see my mom not just as my mom, but as like a human being who
has her own story and her own pain and her own challenges and
who, you know, I'm so glad my dad, you know, for an Indian man
in that generation, was very equal and did a lot around the
house. But he was also very emotionally
repressed and not available for my mom.
And, you know, she really didn'thave anyone, you know, being a
new immigrant in this country, the to, to express herself with.

(17:22):
And I can't even imagine what the impact of that is,
especially for my mom. Who's she?
My mom's a creative. She's an artist and, and she is
a deep thinker. And I've always appreciated that
about her. But I, I wasn't in a place yet,
I think, to write this memoir right away because I think I had
a lot more healing to do. And like I said, there was also

(17:42):
just logistically, I went back to grad school, I started a new
job, I started writing again, but then I started my own
business. So when I started my own
business, my attention had to shift to that.
And then last year I was like, OK, you know, I'm, I started my
fifth year of my business in July and I'm like, OK, I'm ready
to write this memoir. So it's a mix of like how, how

(18:02):
life went as well as now I feel like I'm writing this with a
really good distance, which I think is helpful for stories
about around pain because I can kind of, I mean, don't get me
wrong, like I do get re traumatized a little in my
writing, my more writing process.
Things have been a little hard, but I when I have a lot of tools
and two, I think it's because I'm less close to it from a time

(18:28):
perspective. I can, I can see it from
different perspectives, right? I'm not just like straight in it
where I can't see myself. I'm able to, you know, have some
distance from it and turn towardmyself in in more directions
than before. When you were married to your

(18:51):
ex-husband at that time, what did you see in him at that time
that made you fall in love with them, or at least that you felt
like you were in love with them?Because I, I wonder about how we
were growing up. I think I'm curious about what
you shared of your upbringing and how that informed the

(19:16):
standards or expectations you have of a relationship.
Yeah, such a good question. And this was actually the first
part I was writing this part about how I fell in love with my
ex-husband in my memoir back in April.
And it brought up a lot of shamefor me because I thought, Oh my

(19:36):
God, like, I can't believe I fell for this, you know, like I
can't believe like I liked this person.
Like I would never do that now. But I also have to remind myself
that that is who birds the me now and today.
And it's just a different version of myself.
And that version of myself I have so much compassion for

(19:56):
because, yeah, I mean, I, I mean, in many ways, I grew up in
a very, I have a very loving home.
I never ever questioned if my parents loved me or, you know,
they always made time for my brother and me almost too much
time. My mom was very controlling.
My dad was more passive. And in a lot of ways, I I grew
up in a more matriarchal household.
My mom had like kind of the power in a lot of ways.

(20:20):
My dad was more passive, like I said, emotionally repressed.
And my mom, I mean they made decisions together, but I feel
like my dad kind of had to acquiesce at times because of
how firmly my mom believed in things.
I grew up in a relatively stricthousehold.
And when I say that I have friends, especially South Asian
friends who had stricter parentsthan me, I mean, I wasn't

(20:41):
allowed to date. My parents were strict about me
seeing friends and stuff. But that's not like I never saw
friends. I mean, I went to prom, you
know, I did things like that, but I felt very constricted a
home and all I wanted was freedom.
And I just kind of, I described as like, it's just a very square
household. Everything's by the rules.
This is how we do things are just like no fun.
And I remember I just wanted to play more.

(21:01):
I feel like everything, especially with my mom was about
work. We have to do this.
And I remember like a whole one of my whole winter breaks was us
redoing the tile in the kitchen and this really beautiful design
that my mom made. But I'm like, this isn't how I
wanted to spend my winter break.I felt like every Saturday
morning, And I feel like this sounds so like silly, but like,
at the time, it didn't matter. Every Saturday morning when all

(21:23):
of my friends are watching Saturday morning cartoons, I
went grocery shopping with my mom to five different grocery
stores to use all the coupons and get everything on sale.
And I just kind of feel like a lot of my play time as a child
was taken from me. And it is actually a huge reason
that I didn't want kids as I gotolder.
One, I saw my mom, you know, sacrifice her dreams of being an

(21:46):
artist to have like a stable joband to be a mom.
And two, because I think, you know, on an unconscious level, I
wanted freedom and I knew that if I had kids that that would,
you know, make it hard to reallyfeel free as a parent and all
that's all I wanted. And I feel like in my family, my
dad, you know, like I said, was repressed.
Dad was probably on, you know, neurodivergent.

(22:10):
My brother also had similar challenges.
And I felt like, and I know thisis an an ablest way of looking
at it, but when I was younger, Ididn't know these terms.
And, you know, you just grow up around kids and stuff like that.
I kind of like resented growing up that I felt like the only
quote UN quote normal person in my family and all I want to do
is just get the heck out of there and leave.

(22:32):
Now I don't feel that way. I've done a lot of healing with
my own brother too, in the ways that I've treated him in the
past that I'm not proud of, and healing with my mom as well.
But I really just wanted to get the heck out of my house.
And I thought that the two ways I could do that was go to
college and find a man because Iknew that being with a person.
And of course I wanted a guy whowas fun and lived on the edge

(22:55):
and was different because I was just always so curious
intellectually. I really like thinking about
philosophy. I really like thinking about
life. So my first two very serious
relationships were with with Indian guys.
And I did date at that time. I did really still want to be
with the South Asian person who,you know, smoked a lot of weed.

(23:17):
And both of them, I oddly loved the fish and jam bands.
And I just thought that was cooland different and an escape.
And, you know, they were willingto take risks and my family
wasn't. And, you know, it ended up
getting me into my abusive relationship with my who would
be my husband. And I made excuses for his

(23:38):
behavior, for the ways he criticized me.
I was used to critique because my mom was very critical.
So all of this stuff just led meinto wanting to escape.
And that's one way I describe mymemoir.
It's like really understanding the difference between escape
and freedom. Like I wanted to escape my
family and I escaped into the arms of my now ex-husband.

(23:58):
I thought that was freedom, but it wasn't because it just was
another manifestation. A lot of the hyper vigilance and
control that I experienced growing up.
And all I've ever wanted is thatsense of freedom and liberation.
And that's why I'm writing aboutmy divorce and marriage, because
leaving that relationship actually gave me the freedom.
I was finally seeking my whole life to not be constrained by

(24:23):
what other people's rules are for me, but, you know, make my
own constraints. Like I get to make the rules,
you know, I get to see, you knowwhat, what I'm going to do and
the boundaries I'm going to makemyself, not ones that are
dictated by somebody else. You mentioned how freedom has

(24:43):
been like this theme in your life, especially at an early
age. And this is very relatable to me
because I grew up with very strict parents.
My dad was very much hovering over me and I felt like I did
not have a real social life. I was very much confined to my
house, and it was very restricting.

(25:07):
And I think when I got out of high school, I remembered how I
wanted to just rebel against everything that my dad taught
me. And I wanted to do things my
way. And I felt that through my 20s,

(25:27):
I was in the search of trying toget out of my bubble and which
led me to move to South Korea like in 2009 and in my mid 20s.
And, you know, I've noticed how much I love traveling, how much
I really don't value being in relationships in the way because

(25:49):
I don't want to have children. Even as a gay man, I, I don't
want to feel like I'm being confined because I felt that
control from my parents early on.
And I think that sends an activation signal that says,
this is like, no, I don't want to be like pushed down.
I don't want to have like, watered down my personality and

(26:14):
my ambitions to make this personfeel comfortable.
Although on the other hand, there's a people pleasing
tendencies with me that comes into play on other things,
which, you know, obviously we could probably talk about.
But yeah, I also think about that last conversation that we
had on my podcast. I do remember your husband was

(26:36):
trying to get you to take on things that he liked rather than
what you wanted to like or discover.
And one of them was sports. And it's very funny because back
in the 2000s, man, I was really into my sports.
I would listen to sports radio, and we were from Chicago, so I
would, you know, nerd out, you know, And I always feel like

(26:59):
that's my straight version of Randy, I guess, because I really
had a different personality. And I am very curious about what
did you have to do to make him feel comfortable in that sense
and and what weren't you able todo in terms of your discovery
and like what you actually wanted to do deep down but was

(27:21):
afraid to not take on? Yeah, You know, it's such a good
question. And to be honest, I met him when
I was 24 and I just, so I just finished college.
I'd actually just got out of another relationship with, you
know, the other fish Indian guy a few months before I met him
and he was like my first love. And I think I one thing I've

(27:42):
always struggled with, and this is kind of like where a lot of
connection comes with between like career passion and like
relationships. Ever since I was younger, I
really struggled with like the, what do you want to be when you
grow up? Like I would go to the library
and I, I remember exactly the section where there was like all
the career stuff because I needed to figure it out.
Especially growing up in a household where my dad was an
engineer and he was always an engineer.

(28:04):
Like that's who he was my brother ever since he was like
12 and knew he wanted to be an engineer, especially like for
aerospace, like for flying things, which is exactly what he
does today and has done for the last 25 years.
My mom was an artist and while she didn't pursue it, it was her
passion, right? And so I kind of just felt like,
well, what don't what's mine andI didn't know and I really

(28:26):
struggled with like what is my passion?
And when I was when I met my ex-husband, I was still
struggling with it and trying tofigure it out.
But instead of like encouraging me or helping me think of ways
or, or just being supportive of me trying to find what I wanted,
he basically told me I had no interests, that I, my friends
were boring. And this is very like abuse one

(28:48):
O 1. This is what abusers do.
And he was talking about how he had such strong passions like
music, sports, and that, you know, that's what he loved.
And so I basically just kind of realized that if I wanted to be
with this person that at that point I really liked, I was
going to have to kind of like what he likes because like he

(29:09):
was so passionate about it. So we would go to sports games
together. I, you know, would listen to 720
AM with him. That's how I, you know, got
into. Harry Yokel.
I think it was like Stacey, King, Harry, Harry, Yokel and
Dan. Oh yeah, yeah.
Yeah, I remember that show. That was AM 1000.

(29:31):
That was AM 1000. That was AM one that was like,
yeah, we listened to that too. That was like the ESPN 1, right?
Yes. And you know, there was AI will
say there was a lot of joy in it.
And it's not like I hated sportsbefore anything.
And I grew up in Chicago in the 90s, right?
Like, I mean, who wasn't a massive Bulls fan?
And so I, you know, I was like watching Super Bowl every year.
It's not like I hated sports or anything.
So it just was like I got deeperin it with him.

(29:52):
I even like started managing hisfantasy football teams.
I would go every Sunday to hang out with his friends to watch
all the football games. And it was like me, I was like
the only girl. We were so codependent and
immediately like literally a month after we started dating,
he basically moved into my studio apartment, which I had
just moved into in Chicago and we leaving my parents place.
So it got very enmesh and very codependent right away.

(30:15):
We were constantly together. The only time we weren't
together was basically like, because we were at work, you
know, and like to the point where I just didn't even know
who I was without him. And I, I didn't want to.
And that literally is what codependence is.
And I, like I said, would basically love everything he
loved. And when I did that, that made

(30:36):
him him happy and him into it. So it just, you know, it just
all like folded into each other.And in terms of the music, I
would go to all these fish showswith him.
I would go to all this stuff. And I would say, you know, when
it was the stuff I liked, you know, the in the band maybe he
didn't like, he was more likely to say no.
And I remember one time when he finally was like, Oh yeah, well,
let's go. Like, you know, trying to, you
know, be appreciative of the stuff and respectful the stuff I

(30:59):
liked. He like ruined the experience.
And, you know, and he would do the same thing when I'd go to my
friends weddings versus his friends weddings.
He would get really, really drunk or he would complain or it
was just really awful. And they would just ruin my
experience for my friends. But for his friends, of course,
I mean, first of all, I'm just not going to be a person who's
going to ruin the experience foranybody at someone's wedding of

(31:21):
all places. But that was how he held control
over me. When he felt like he wasn't in
control, that's what he did. He would make himself the center
of attention. I mean, I would definitely say,
I mean that he definitely has narcissistic personalities
traits. So yeah, that's how it all like
played out. And like I said, I I learned a

(31:42):
lot of school stuff about music.I learned a lot of cool stuff
about sports, but I'm really happy that now I you know, I do
watch sports still and I'll talkto my current partner about
store at sports and but then I won't sometimes and it's like
it's never a problem. It's just something that we can
talk about, but it's not going to be something that like is do
or die, you know? And the interesting thing

(32:02):
actually now is reviewing this from like reviewing some old
like G chats for anyone out there, whoever used G chat, like
the chat function on Google, like Gmail, right?
Which I think was probably killed by social media.
But like I found these old ones where it's just, you know, and I
remember like 3 times where my ex-husband basically was like,
we have nothing in common. We have no interest.

(32:24):
And he wasn't actually wasn't wrong.
He was actually very right. But I just was like, no, you
know, like I was trying to convince him.
But then he also had his own challenges that I was trying to
support him through. And but the ultimately that's
what ended up to me leaving is that it's not just that we had
nothing in common because I don't think people have to love
the same things. Like my partner and I, current

(32:45):
partner and I, we like very, we,we both have things we love, but
we also have the things that we're very passionate about.
Like he loves volleyball and I love that he loves it, but I'm
not going to like go to all these volleyball games with him
or anything. It's not something I have a
strong interest in and nor does he expect me to.
And I think that expectation formy ex-husband was there as well.
It wasn't just like I was just capitulating, it was also that

(33:09):
he was expecting me and if I didn't go to that with him he
would get really upset. And it would it would.
Honestly if I hadn't done that it would have led to the
breakdown of our relationship much earlier.
But I wasn't willing to do that yet.
I met your current partner George and very lovely guy.
He is an older white man. And I'm very curious, like when

(33:31):
you ended your relationship withyour ex-husband, how did it
affect your pursuit or how you want to be in the next
relationship? And how do you try to unlearn a
lot of the things that you don'twant to repeat again?
And what did you set for yourself for that next

(33:55):
relationship before George entered into the picture?
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So I had to since my I got
divorced, I've had two serious relationships, both both with
white, with white men. A couple things.
I mean, I definitely was like continuing to work on my
codependency, which ironically, I started learning after
starting to go to Al Anon. My ex-husband went to rehab and

(34:17):
he started going to a A and thenI started going to Al Anon,
which for people who don't know,you know, you people are high
more familiar with a, a Alcoholics Anonymous, a 12 step
recovery program. Al Anon was basically also a 12
step program, but for people whohad loved ones who were
Alcoholics or had addiction challenges because our addiction

(34:37):
was the other person. And it really was basically
about codependency. So that's really where I started
learning it. And after my husband relapsed, I
started applying the whole idea of detaching with love, which is
something that I learned in Al Anon.
And when I started doing that, Irealized, wow, I really don't
want to do the stuff he does. I don't really want to even

(35:00):
share what's happening with me. I also started reawakening my
politics, which, you know, I didn't mention before.
When we met, I was starting to get more politicized.
I wasn't really that political in college.
But after college, I started being more politicized,
realizing, you know, things about like social justice and
critical theory and all this stuff that I was like, oh, wait,
you know, like this all makes sense.
And it kind of got kiboshed by my ex-husband.

(35:22):
And when I started bringing it up again toward the end of our
marriage, he just was not on board.
And I'm like, if I can't talk tohim about these things, it's not
going to work. So one thing I was like, one
thing I wanted was someone who Icould talk to about politics on
some level. Not that we have to agree
perfectly, but that we can be respectful and talk about it
too. I wanted to be with someone who
I wasn't going to be codependentwith.

(35:44):
And now that's been a journey and it still is, but I'm much
more aware of my patterns. Another thing that I wanted was
I didn't want to get married again.
And it wasn't because I got married and got divorced.
It actually is more of the political side.
And I can probably send you thisarticle if you want to include
it in the show notes. But my friend had shared this
really good article. Great article by Dean Spade.

(36:05):
He's a trans activist called Marriage Will Never Set Us Free.
And it was actually on the heelsof when gay marriage was
legalized in California. And his whole point was that gay
marriage is basically assimilating to straight
marriage, which assimilates to the state, what the state wants

(36:27):
from us. And from a political angle, it
just made me be like, I don't want to get married.
And on top of it, I am a heterosexual person.
And there is the patriarchy. You know, I also realized I
didn't want kids. So I literally on my dating
profiles wrote I don't want to get married and I don't want
kids. And that pretty much rules out
most South Asian men. I'll be quite honest, which who

(36:50):
minimum want to get married if not want kids.
So in a in a weird way, it's notthat I didn't want to be with
the Indian guy. I mean, I did for the longest
time, but I also know that most of them want at least one of
those things. Not everybody, you know, I'll
never, can't always make a blanket statement.
But there is a pattern, right? And yeah, I just feel like after

(37:14):
I got divorced, I was like, money.
Marriage is just money and things.
And I'm not knocking on people who want to be married, get
married. I wanted to, you know, but
that's how it, what it felt likefor me after this experience.
So those are the things that after I got divorced, I like
committed to. And I think the hardest part has
been like just making sure to keep continue to work on and be

(37:36):
aware of my codependent and people pleasing patterns, which
is, you know, literally what allof my clients struggle with.
And you know, one thing that they say in Al Anon and probably
in maybe all 12 step rooms is ifyou spot it, you got it.
Like if if you could see someoneelse's codependent or people
pleasing, it's because you are the same way.
And I think one of the most beautiful things I get to do now

(37:59):
because of everything I went through is to help people on
shame, first of all, from havingthose patterns and understanding
the influence of their own trauma, intergenerational
trauma, patriarchy, capitalism, all these systems.
This is why I call myself a liberatory life coach because I
tie the systemic to the interpersonal and just to see

(38:19):
how that's impacting us because it was so impactful in my life
to realize, like, I don't want to live in these codependent
relationships, even not even romantic, but even friendships.
My mom, like you know, lots of relationships can be
codependent, not just not just with your romantic partner.
Yeah, and also with George, him being a white man or and

(38:40):
previous white men that you havebeen with.
There's always, this is a very, this is a topic that I really
cannot speak on, but I know thatthere's so much to be said about
Asian women dating white men andhow there's a whole, there's a
whole tango man with this, with this discourse.

(39:01):
And how, how does your partner understand white privilege and
understand your experiences being a South Asian woman?
And so I'm very curious about like having to talk, having
these very tough conversations and also how it looks from an
optical lens from the community.Sure.

(39:24):
Yeah. I think thankfully from I'll
start with what you said last from my community and my family,
they've been extremely accepting.
Thankfully of him. I haven't had any challenges.
If anything, my mom just wants us to get married, but I think
she's gotten over that. You know, I don't know, maybe it
maybe it'll happen one day, maybe a.
Spiritual marriage, you know, just kind of try to let it
conjure in her head, you know? Yeah, I think she's just happy

(39:47):
that I have someone who cares for me and will be there for me
and show up for me. I think that's at this point
she's just very happy about that.
I even brought him to India and we're not even you know, which
was I was even scared that I'd get judgement like we were
dating and I was even surprised my mom was cool with it.
I mean, we've been together for over 7 years.
So it's not like I was with him for a year, but they were very

(40:08):
open and accepting of him. And I will say if I brought like
a black guy or a Muslim guy, because I grew up Hindu, like to
India, like that would be a verychallenging thing, you know?
So there is that anti black and anti Muslim, you know.
Sentiment, you know, I just wantto be very honest about that
from a racial perspective that me being with the white guy is

(40:31):
does make certain things easier to navigate for family dynamics
and community dynamics, though. I know that like I'm not, I know
there might be a lot of South Asian or just people of color in
general who have more challengeswith that.
But thankfully, my family, I have not had one person that has
had an issue with that in terms of our relationship.
I mean, I've always been very conscious of that ever since I

(40:54):
started when I was dating people.
It's like, do you understand your privilege?
What work have you done? And I always like from the get
go felt that George had done hiswork and research.
I remember one time actually, I was talking about like where cuz
I'm Gujarati, which is like kindof like W ish India.
And he I was like talking about it with him.

(41:14):
And he was like, Oh yeah, it's like at this part and this is
what's next to it. I was like, how did you know
that? You know, he's like, oh, after
we started dating, I made sure to like look at a map of India
and like, see where everything was.
And I was like, oh, I mean, to be honest, he probably like,
maybe he knows more than me. And I just appreciated that he
was willing to do the work himself, but I didn't.
I've never had to felt the need to over explain my cultural

(41:38):
experience. I mean, I'll explain things to
him. And I've actually been very
straightforward with him with that.
Yeah, I want to be with the South Asian guy because they
just get things that you're not going to 100% to be able to
understand. And he totally gets that.
Like he did not grow up as a South Asian, not even just as a
South Asian person, but a South Asian person in America, which
is also different. You know, if I was with the

(41:58):
South Asian guy who's from India, you know, and never, you
know, had grew up in, grew up inthe States, you know, especially
younger, there would also be a challenge in differential there.
So he's always been very understanding of that.
And you know, even though there's certain things that I
know that he has never had the experience with, I've, I would

(42:22):
rather and not that there are noother options between my
ex-husband and my current partner, but I would rather take
that than being an abusive relationship any day.
Because he's just extremely understanding, patient, curious,
looking up stuff, you know, trying things very open, you
know, minded and also very conscious of systemic inequity

(42:42):
and disparities. You know, he grew up pretty
working class. You know, I mean, he, I, I think
actually I grew up, you know, with more income, or I mean, in
terms of my parents, more incomesecurity than actually he did.
And he actually grew up in Westminster, which you might be
familiar with this. It's a really large Vietnamese

(43:03):
community. And so he actually, he told me
his school grew, his high schoolwas like 1/3 Vietnamese people.
And he's older than me. So that was like the early 90s.
And I was like, really, that's like shocking to me.
So I think that also has helped because he just grew up working
class and he also grew up aroundso much diversity.
Like he was on the basketball team and like, it was mostly

(43:23):
like Vietnamese kids, you know, that he was playing with and
stuff. So, you know, I think that that
is normal to him. You know, whereas I think a lot
of people that maybe grew up in a the white suburbs that I grew
up in it, it's like not as normal.
So but I think he constantly works on it.
And I'll be honest, I can't really say in the seven years
we've been together, and I know not every person in a like a

(43:48):
multiracial, is that what we call it, multiracial
relationship? I can say this, but I don't feel
like it's ever gotten in the wayof of things.
Like I think he's been, I mean, I will just go on about racial
stuff and white people. Like I have no, like, you know,
I have no qualms. Like I will just say stuff.
And he's like, yeah, he just listens, you know what I mean?
He's not like correcting me or anything.
So I think that so far so good. You know, it hasn't become an

(44:13):
issue, but it was something whenI was dating that was very
cognizant of is that, you know, I want to make sure that this
person is 1, is willing to do their own work.
And two, I'm not going to be scared to talk about that
because one time I've said certain things in my to about
like white folks or just white people and white privilege, like
in front of him and my mom and my mom was like, aren't you
afraid to say those things in front of him?

(44:35):
I'm like, if I was afraid to saythose things in front of him,
then he's not the person for me.You know, I was like, he's never
made me feel bad, you know, about saying those things
because he, he knows what the, the challenges and the, the
disparities and the marginalization and oppression
is, you know, is, I mean, from an intellectual level, right?
And he's willing to listen. Yeah, I second that with you

(44:59):
because having my George, I've always found him to be such a
lovely, sweet person. And and I also know that I have
a very strong personality. Sometimes other people have said
that about me, I guess I mean, or that I come off a little
intimidating. And I always feel like that's
how I approach my encounters with white people in dating

(45:23):
situations. And I feel like that is
something to name because I always feel like, OK, let me be
a little provocative. Let me see if I could, you know,
see how you handle if I say thisbecause that's how I really
believe. I mean, a lot of things that I
will say are hot button issues, especially politics.
Like I need to be with someone who it really gets my experience

(45:47):
and understands my politics, youknow, And I think that is
something to really name here. I will say after your marriage,
you also had to deal with the death of your father.
And as someone who is still mourning the loss of my brother,
like earlier this year. And I know like it's also been a

(46:11):
decade since your father passed.Like how did grief affect you
personally, but also how you navigated in relationships, You
know, because I think that it really does a lot of it it it
sneaks in everywhere. I mean, I think I wrote

(46:31):
something about how grief is like the the uninvited guest.
It just like you learn how to have the still take it with you.
You know, you like, you can't just get rid of it.
It still come. It comes at you when you're in
the shower, when you're, you know, taking a walk or, you
know, in a movie theater. Like, I'm very curious about
like the aftermath of your father's death and how grief has

(46:56):
really been. This has been this journey for
you. Yeah.
So. Yeah, my dad will be.
It'll be 13 years this December since my dad passed away and
it's been, it's so interesting. I actually think the first two
years. So my dad died, we were on

(47:18):
vacation in India and he got sick and he died.
It was just very unexpected and very shocking because my dad was
very healthy and like it was like within 8 days of him
entering the hospital he passed away and my ex-husband was
there. He was sober at the time and
it's hard for me to separate these things because they, it
was just wild how this happened together.

(47:39):
But you know, then after we camehome, basically like we had
moved in with my mom for a few months.
And that was really hard for my ex-husband, especially dealing
with the sobriety and again, notbeing in his space, not having
control. And it was, it was just
challenging. And that summer he relapsed.
And then that October I asked for a separation.

(48:00):
So less than a year after my daddied, I basically like I asked
for the separation, but I was like 99% sure that we were done.
We did go to therapy, couples therapy because I just wanted to
make sure that I'm like, am I missing something here?
Is there something to be salvage?
But I I didn't feel that way. So then a year after my dad
died, I asked for a divorce. So I feel like I was dealing

(48:24):
with so much helping my mom, realizing what was happening in
my relationship. To be honest, when I think of
that year, I'm like, wow, like Idon't even know how I did that.
So that was, I feel like I kind of disrupted a little bit of my
grief process. I actually started going to
therapy. This is when I first started
very seriously going into therapy.
So that was 2013 to realizing, OK, I need to do like my dad's

(48:47):
stuff. I mean, I also say this with my
dad, we weren't, it's not that we weren't close, but like I
mentioned earlier, my dad was very emotionally, we're pissed.
He wasn't a talkative guy. So it was really hard for me to
understand what our relationshipwas.
My dad was someone who showed upfor me.
He was very consistent. He wasn't like affectionate

(49:11):
really, though, you know, I willsay I, my parents kissed, you
know, like, and I don't, I have a lot of South Asian friends who
never even seen their parents like have any physical
affection. So I'm grateful that I got to
see that as a model. And I think you asked about this
before too, like, and I don't think I really got to it, but
you know, I am grateful to have seen my parents, like, have that
physical affection. And I am also really happy to

(49:32):
have had models of a dad who didnot berate my mom or belittle
her and celebrated her creativity and didn't put her
down for her abilities, which I also see a lot of, especially
South Asian men, but a lot of men in general, just threatened
by women and their talents because of their own
insecurities. But so I'm really glad I had

(49:53):
that as an example. But at the same time, I didn't
know what our relationship was. So that grieving process was I
was kind of like, who was he to me?
But what ended up happening was that it changed the dynamics in
my immediate family a little bitbecause now my dad wasn't there.
I didn't realize what a buffer he was.
I wouldn't realize how like he was the soothing presence.
And honestly, it took a couple years for me to realize that.

(50:14):
So I feel like a lot of my griefhit me more like 2 years later.
And also like I said, in that first year, I was navigating my
marriage because I going back to, I started seeing a therapist
about my grieving my dad and it just within one or two sessions
just went to my relationship with my husband because that's
what was the challenge. I mean, I think we literally, I

(50:35):
started therapy with my therapist a few weeks before my
husband relapsed. So that was the most dominant
thing. And you know, by that time, 6-7
months later, a lot of the stufflike logistically that I had to
help with my mom, we moved out of my mom's house back to our
place. You know, like a lot of the
logistical things that we had tomanage after my dad's death to
support my mom were managed and my mom was healthy living alone.

(50:57):
And you know, yes, there was thegrief and I would go to my mom's
house much more often to see herand visit her and stuff.
But I feel like the grief hit memore a few years later in terms
of realizing who my dad was to me realizing like I remember
when we were at the hospital in India and he, he had died.
And I remember when I, when I was 31 at the time, yeah, 31.

(51:21):
And I remember thinking, OK, this is like probably within a
day that he died. I remember thinking, OK, my
dad's been alive for 100% of my life with me.
That means in 15 years, you know, or in another 30 years,
he'll only have been with me forhalf my life.

(51:42):
Like he won't know what half my life has been.
And it just really made me mad, honestly.
Like it made me so angry that hewouldn't and sad that he
wouldn't know what was happening.
Like, I get so sad. I mean, I still am very sad that
he can never meet George, you know, or like know what's
happening in my life. But I also really on a spiritual

(52:04):
level, do believe he does know, you know, but another thing that
like was interesting that was hard for me to lose my dad was
because, you know, to be frank, I had to deal with my mom alone.
Like he was a buffer and now I had to deal with it.

(52:25):
And also I was mad at him. I'm like, you left me with her.
And I remember honestly very I'mgoing to be very frank again
thinking why did it have to be him?
Because she's the one who who, like, pisses me off.
Like, my dad would have just been chill.
Like, I would have lived with mydad, you know?
Yeah, he wasn't very commutativeor emotional, but he wasn't,
like, controlling and overbearing, you know?

(52:46):
So I could have easily lived with him.
But there was no way I would want to live with my mom,
especially at that time. So I was really, like, mad at
him. And I was like, I wish, I kind
of wish it was the other way around.
Now I've done so much beautiful healing with my mom that I'm so
glad that, you know, whenever, whatever happens to my mom, you
know, my mom's 78 now, so she's,you know, healing the age big
time and you know, in prep, preparing for her own, you know,

(53:09):
stuff in her own way. And I am too.
I think about it. It's hard to lose a parent and
not think about the other one going cuz I think it's just
impossible to not think about it.
On some level. I'm so glad that I've had this
these thirteen years with my momto heal with her.
Like at the time I was mad. I was like, man, he left me with
her. I.
Can't believe I'm gonna. Do this.

(53:31):
But yeah, I mean, my grief has evolved and I miss my dad so
much. Like I still cry about him.
I think about him every day. I think about the stuff I want
to tell him, you know, I think about, like I said, George and
all this stuff. But I also feel like he's very
much with me. And I, I love, and it doesn't
happen often, but I love when I have dreams with him because the

(53:51):
dreams are always like so happy and he's always just so happy.
And I really do feel like his spirit like is liberated and
he's with me. So yeah, it's been such an
interesting journey because because of how our relationship
was, I think it'll be very different with my mom.
Like, I don't know, I think it'sgoing to be really very
different. I think actually initially it's
going to be hard, but also I have no idea.

(54:14):
And as you know, like, it is that uninvited guest, like grief
happens in ways that you will never know.
And just because it's one parent, like I have a very
different relationship with my mom, it's going to be very
different, you know? And also when my mom passes,
I'll have lost both my parents. You.
Know what I mean? So yeah.

(54:35):
Yeah, I really appreciate you sharing your grief journey as
well and and how that has helpedto how that you were able to use
your grief to help mend the wounds between you and your mom.
And, you know, as someone who's already going through it and I
got to deal with the first of first of, you know,
Thanksgiving, Christmas, then the one year anniversary, it's

(54:58):
coming up very quickly. And I think that has definitely
been on my mind. And yeah, yeah, I still get very
emotional just hearing your story does get me does get my
eyes watery. Get eyes watery a little bit
there. But like, I think, I think that
there's still so much to navigate through.
I also find myself changing a lot the last couple of months.

(55:21):
I feel like I have been tapping into more of like a Big Brother
side of me because I wish I could have been that way to my
brother early on in a sense thathe struggled with.
So I mean, that's a whole notherstory.
Maybe I'll do this in the maybe I'll do this in a storytelling
stage one day. But like, but like I always felt

(55:42):
that like, I hope that you overcompensate.
At least I overcompensate for what didn't happen when he was
living, you know, So I think I think about that quite a bit,
you know, and, and also having to step away from my job and
then, you know, taking a dive into the podcast and just really
focused. But yeah, I mean, grief has been

(56:03):
has been a challenge and it's a it's an everyday ongoing thing.
And also I do both of my parentsare still living, but that does
come up for me quite a bit as I'm in my 40s and people around
me. And I know for you in your case,
being in our 40s, there are expected deaths and unexpected
deaths. And that has been happening a

(56:24):
lot in my world through acquaintances, people that I've
been friends with. And, and it's like, OK, how do
I, how do I think of gratitude for what I've learned with these
people? You know, maybe the great won't
hit me as the way it did with mybrother, but like, but like, how
do I, you know, manage my thoughts about this, right?

(56:48):
So, yeah, I know as we start to wrap up, tell me, tell me some
of the things that you have beendoing lately that you're
preparing for it for 2026. And I got to say, I know the
last time I you were on my show,you were just taking the leap of
faith to go into this world. And I know it's very uncertain

(57:09):
right now, but, you know, you talked about the lack of funding
for institutions. I know it's been hard for me to
try to get into universities to do talks like I used to because,
you know, DI is getting dismantled and there's a whole
nother, you know, reworking. And yeah, I just wonder about
like, how has that been for you the last few years, but really

(57:30):
now going into 2026? Yeah, absolutely.
I'm still doing my work with libraries about trauma and from
care and just Wellness and well-being.
I'm also expanding outside of libraries and I want to share my
story like I shared with you, just to show how, especially as
a South Asian woman, I can carvemy own path that's unexpected.
And I can be someone who doesn'tget married or have kids and

(57:53):
start my own business on my own.And that's still a definition of
success. I don't have to be the VP of
some Bank of America with the 2.5 children and, you know,
whatever. And I think that we need to see
more of those stories and I wantto speak more about that.
So I'm going to be trying to pitch more speaking
opportunities in 2026 outside ofthe library realm.

(58:15):
And I'm also going to be workingon my book.
I'm hoping to have most of the first draft done by the end of
this year. I'm working toward that.
I'm writing 10 pages a week right now, so I'm continuing to
do that. I'm actually really excited.
2026 is for me is going to startwith being in Japan because my
partner is going to be on sabbatical going to Japan for

(58:36):
about 5-6 months. So I'm going to go there.
So actually really, to be honest, happy to just leave this
country for a minute for. Like although I heard about
their prime, although I heard about their Prime Minister, that
they'll. Oh yes, I saw that.
Yeah, so hang tight on that one too.
Yeah, I know, I know. Yeah, we'll see how that goes.
So I'll be the, I mean, the, theplan is to be there for 6-7

(58:58):
weeks. So yeah, that's going to be
happening. And yeah, I'm excited to be
doing more speaking. I also have a signature program
called Meet Yourself that I'm hoping to be doing a few times a
year for people who are interested in my work and just
want some foundational knowledgeabout how they could support
themselves to stop shrinking themselves and to start being

(59:18):
seen and, you know, stop performing and hiding behind
masks and so that they can be inintegrity without being scared
to be who they are. So that's what I'm doing.
And I'm always open to one-on-one clients.
So yeah, that's what I'm doing. If anyone out there knows anyone
who wants an inspirational speaker or is curious about my

(59:40):
work, I'm sure Randy will put all my information.
Absolutely. And also, I hope that people
follow you and follow your current work that you are
providing, which is amazing, by the way.
I've always been a big fan of your work, especially on social
media. Are you gonna do any dancing on
social media? I was thinking about this I.
Remember, I love your encouragement, my dancing, and I

(01:00:01):
was doing those. I don't know if.
You saw those. I love it.
The outfit of the day things. And I realized I kind of stopped
doing that. So I think I might start doing
it too, but I should start doingsome more dancing.
I've kind of gotten away from that and I think my inner child
needs to have some movements. So I always appreciate the
reminder from you, Randy. Yeah, because I have done a few
of those, like in the past year,you know, like I should do it

(01:00:23):
too. I should just blow bubbles to
90s nostalgia songs, too, you know, just being very silly
because, like, I get angry enough as it is with this world
these days. And we need a release.
And I also feel like I need to entertain people.
So if we can keep people alive here and, you know, not lose our
minds and, yeah. What would you say to the Nisha

(01:00:45):
of 10 plus years ago? What would you say to her before
divorce? You are going to bloom in ways
that you have no idea about. Thank you so much and everyone,
thank you so much. I hope that people get to listen
and follow your work. And all the best to you as we

(01:01:07):
wrap up 2025. Thank you, Randy.
I appreciate you.