October 16, 2025 • 47 mins
Note from Randy: The last 30 seconds of the episode went silent so my apologies to listeners
This episode features an in-depth conversation with Aaron Yin, an organizer based in the Crown Heights neighborhood of Brooklyn, New York.
Aaron shares his four years of experience in the organizing space, offering valuable insights into what it truly means to be an activist today, especially for those just starting out. He breaks down how community organizing can look on a hyper-local level, emphasizing the importance of building relationships right in your apartment complex and neighborhood.
Community Engagement, Deconstructed: Aaron demystifies the idea of “community engagement,” explaining how to connect with neighbors and build local power from the ground up.
Actionable Steps for Beginners: If you’ve been waiting for a sign, this is it. Aaron provides concrete, actionable steps that anyone can take to enter the organizing space, regardless of their experience level.
The Burnout Antidote: Organizing is long-term work. Aaron discusses his strategies for avoiding burnout and sustaining activism, drawing from his popular viral videos on the subject.
Aaron’s approach offers a practical, grounded roadmap for moving from being a passive observer to an engaged participant in your local community.
Bio:
Aaron Yin is an organizer currently based in the Crown Heights neighborhood of Brooklyn, New York, with four years of experience in the field.
He is known for his work on the Politically Asian! Podcast and, more recently, for several viral Instagram videos that offer accessible guidance on community building. His popular video content covers essential topics for new organizers, including tips on how to get political slowly, strategies for finding friends and groups to organize with, and practical advice for avoiding burnout.
Aaron currently dedicates his time to organizing with several groups in Crown Heights, focusing on building strong relationships within his apartment complex and the wider neighborhood.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:03):
Hey everyone, this is Randy Kim from the Bunmi Chronicles
podcast and it gives me a great pleasure to bring a person who I
have respected in the past as a former podcaster.
And he and his partner, Jerry Lim were the Co host of the
politically Asian podcast, whichhad sunsetted a few years ago,
(00:26):
which still makes me sad becauseI really do love that podcast.
And and I have been such a fan of your work.
And I know that you have been very involved in community
activism and training folks about what it means to be an
activist, to be involved, to have hard conversations with
(00:46):
people within our Asian communities or any communities
for that matter, that on issues that really are very critical
right now, especially in the Trump administration.
You're also a comedian from my understanding, too.
And first of all, I want to say,how have you been holding up
(01:07):
this year for 2025, going into 2026?
And how has that navigation beenin the work that you're doing?
And I also want to name that you're also based in New York.
Total, Yeah. And Randy, thank you for having
me. Great to actually talk with you
in real life. Right now I'm, I think I'm
holding up OK. Like I focus a lot of my
(01:28):
energies on local energy within Crown Heights, which is a
neighborhood within Brooklyn, NY.
So I think on a day-to-day I feel pretty satisfied because of
the number of neighbors I know in my building and also the
number of people who I know within like a 10 block radius of
me, which had never happened before in my like 8 years of
living in New York City. It's been very rewarding.
(01:52):
I guess against the backdrop of,you know, ICE or you know,
Palestine marches, whatever you have it.
It's, I've never had such a strong network of relationships
locally. So I I feel pretty good.
Yeah, I also want to tell the viewers that the time stamp is
October 9th, 3 O 9:00 PM U.S. central Standard Time.
So I just want to bring this up for context too.
(02:16):
So given what has happened this year, especially what has
happened with Palestine and now with the ICE raids that are
happening, what does being both Asian American and an activist
will look like in this climate, at least for you in in this
(02:36):
manner? Yeah, I'm not sure how much of
an impact it is had like like race specific in this context,
like the I haven't done as much anti ice activity.
I mainly do like as like local neighborhood organizing.
Been to a few pro Palestine marches, including one in Crown
Heights, actually a big one, which was there's a very big
(02:58):
landlord called Pinnacle within Crown Heights, Brooklyn.
And they own a a giant portfolioof buildings.
And recently they've been just like neglecting the tenants on a
very severe level. But they, the tenants recently
found out that Pinnacle actuallysupplies a lot of funding to
Israel. So it's like, wow, they're
(03:19):
taking all their money from their tenants and directly
giving it to Israel. While also not like the tenants.
They have like so many rats, so many cockroaches, no heat, no
electricity. So there was like a rally that
tied the two issues together. But to bring it back to your
question, yeah, I haven't reallymisspelled any sort of racial
awkwardness or like isolation around it.
(03:41):
Like there are Asian people in the Crown Heights neighborhood
and who I know, but I guess we Idon't primarily lean on that as
much as I did maybe a few years ago.
And you were also originally from Arkansas as well, as if, if
I remember correctly, right? Totally, yeah.
I grew up in Little Rock, AR Asian population like 2%, two
percent, 3% so pretty small. Yeah.
(04:04):
So how did like living in Arkansas inform your own
community activism work and yourown I and and the work that you
do and in your relationship withyour own community and in as far
as the Asian American experiencegoes?
Totally. I mean, in general, big picture
(04:27):
wise, in high school, you know, K through 12, in general, I was
not, I would say, an organizer by any means.
I was pretty apolitical, very typical, like hyper academic
student. I took like 22 AP classes in
high school. Just like very like, you know,
head in the ground Ivy League, you know, gutting for the Ivy
League orchestra, science, math,whatever you can think of, you
(04:50):
name it. I think the one tiny different
thing I did was like, there was this oral history project I did
in high school that really focused on people's experiences
with racism, homophobia, sexism,because the high school I went
to was famous or infamous for for it's racism.
Little Rock Central High School that like was an all white high
(05:12):
school and they had to have non black students brought into the
school with the National Guard. So that was my only true
experience with anything relatedto, I guess the oppression that
we talked about about today. Aside from that, even though
Little Rock AR was only two or three percent Asian, at least
(05:34):
for Chinese people, there are a lot of ways to find each other.
There was like Chinese school, there's orchestra, there's math,
there's science, there's ways offinding other people.
So I, I actually never really had the experience that, you
know, many Asians have of like being the only Asian person in
all white class, like maybe someclasses, but there were enough
(05:54):
classes and activities where there are other Asian people.
And what led you to living in New York City and which is a
huge cultural shift from Arkansas little town to to the
big city where the diversity is very up in very much in
abundance. Like what?
What led you to New York City? Yeah, I originally moved here
(06:18):
for the comedy like you mentioned, you know, very big on
originally, really big on improv.
I took so many improv classes and I was doing so many stand up
open mics. I was originally debating
between New York City, Chicago and LA actually because of the
comedy scene. But at the time, my dad, he had
(06:39):
a temporary job in upstate New York.
So that's the only reason why I ended up in New York City,
because I first moved in with him for a few weeks and then
slowly kept going back and forthbetween upstate New York and New
York City to check out apartments and then finally
found one and moved down. Wow.
And being a comedian. So sorry about that.
I think so, yeah. Yeah.
And being a comedian. Oops, sorry.
(07:05):
I wonder about what it means to be a comedian, especially as
someone who's Asian American. And given that, I don't know
what year you entered into it, but there was a dearth of Asian
Americans in that scene. And what did you learn from that
experience and how did it in a way cross into the political
(07:30):
community level work that you were doing or that you're doing
now? Yeah, I would say in New York
City at least there's there's a fair amount of Asian American
comedians. We're talking like East Asian,
Southeast Asian, South Asian. But one learning experience is
the topics, right. I feel like going to an open
(07:51):
mic, at least in New York City back then, and I went two months
ago to see a friend. So I guess even now it kind of
feels like you're just taking a like you're doing time travel to
the past where it's like, you know, you might still hear jokes
about like Asian people not being able to drive sometimes
Asian people eating the dogs, not as much, you know, maybe
(08:15):
some like World War 2, Japan dropping a bomb type of jokes.
It's such a time travel. And it's like when you escape
from the open mic scene and you're just on Twitter, on
Instagram, on YouTube, you don'thear any of that, right?
We're we're talking K pop now, Kpop, demon hunters, whatever.
It's just such AII can't phrase it anywhere else except for like
(08:37):
a time travel, like the materialand the mindsets.
So that took some time getting used to.
I guess part of the reason why Istarted doing open mics in 2018,
but I stopped around 2023, is partially trying to deal with
that huge disconnect between thevery contemporary politics and
the sort of old timey, you know,mind mentality when stand up.
(09:02):
I'm not exactly sure what the best way is to bridge comedy and
politics right now. A lot of people do talk shows,
right? That's one very contemporary
way. But it was so hard to be like
talking about, you know, during when I was doing politically
Asian, very contemporary news, very fresh jokes of all kinds,
like Asian, not Asian, whatever.And then to go back to an open
mic where it's like, so Asian people can't drive, right?
(09:23):
Unless it's so weird to go back and forth between those two,
that is. That is part of the reason why I
stopped doing stand up comedy and just kind of learn more into
the politics. Do you, do you often feel that
like from your experience as a past comedian, what Asian
Americans, do you feel like theyare afraid to venture out into
(09:44):
the politics or going out to themore meaty stuff?
Because I think what really has annoyed me in the past, I used
to have my grievances with largeAsian American comedians don't
feel like naming names here, butlike, but like, I feel that
sometimes I see them going into a more surface level, more
acceptable, palatable way of telling their comedy without
(10:08):
like really offending white people enough.
There's about there. I'm pretty sure that that it's
got to feel really challenging to be in that atmosphere.
But I I wondered, is this something that you feel has
happened a lot in that communityof comedians?
(10:30):
I think there's a general theme of many comedians avoiding
politics, but not not just Asians.
So like, this is I think in how I approach things is always
like, is this something that needs to be racialized or does
not need to be racialized? And it's like, of course, I can
think of many Asian comedians who don't do politics, but I can
(10:51):
also think of many white people who don't do politics or even
black people. And what I've been telling
people recently actually, is fora long for the longest time,
there's been this aversion to politics from comedians, but now
it seems unavoidable, like politics seems unavoidable.
I don't know if you heard about the Ryder Comedy Festival.
(11:12):
Did you see that? I'm trying to remember.
I haven't heard. I don't think I've heard the
full story on that. It's a big festival that
happened maybe 2 weeks ago in Saudi Arabia and a lot of famous
comedians like Dave Chappelle, Bill Burr, whatever were invited
and they were getting absolutelysmoked for taking so much money
(11:35):
to perform there directly for like the the Crown Prince who
has journal. We're we're talking like
journalist assassinations, you know, huge suppression.
And they're all like, I don't care, I'm just doing it for the
paycheck. But a lot of comedians are now
actually mad at that, which I don't think would have happened
a few years ago. So there is some kind of
(11:56):
political conscious shift happening slowly in stand up
comedy. That's not Asian specific, but I
think it's like just starting now, like just with, you know, a
lot of stand up comedians feeling really bad about what
Trump is doing now. And they're like, whoa, whoa,
whoa, I didn't support this, blah, blah, blah.
I have more nuance now. They're just now reaping what
(12:18):
they sow and just now having to think about, you know, taking a
stand on things. Yeah, I think it's also very
interesting because I have been thinking about celebrity culture
and how celebrity culture is perhaps dying.
I don't know if it still is. I mean, there's still a huge
component that's still there. I mean, we're seeing Taylor
Swift, obviously, and Beyoncé and and I think about what
(12:43):
blowback they're dealing with because they are billionaires.
They are very wealthy, very privileged.
And Beyoncé and Jay-Z, we're outhaving dinner with the Kushner's
and Taylor Swift is Taylor Swift.
I know the Swift is going to come after me.
I do not give a damn, but that'sa whole nerd subject.
So like, I kind of wonder like, is that paradigm really
(13:06):
shifting, especially like what is happening with Gaza?
I, I've seen more of a gradual shift from like celebrities with
big platforms starting to speak out and there's plenty of others
that still remain silent. I don't know.
I'm, I'm just kind of like throwing that out there because
I, I don't know if this is the, if, if I'm making this up or,
(13:27):
but do we do do you think that we're finally seeing that
paradigm shift happen, especially at the most critical
time? To be honest, I'm not sure.
Like when you mention that, whatfills my head is all those
letters of celebrities, you know, promising to actually
boycott Israel or not participate in any Israeli
films. Like there's so many positive
(13:48):
signals. And I think as of this recording
recently, there is the the news about an actual ceasefire,
right? Like Trump had brokered some 20
point deal between Israel and Hamas to do something.
I don't know. The short answer is I don't
know. I can name many celebrities now
who are very pro Palestine. I can name many who are
Zionists. Many are comedians.
(14:09):
But I don't know if there's enough to do some overall shift
within like entertainment. I have no idea.
Yeah. Yeah.
And so when so like currently, like when you got involved with
community organizing, what can you say has been very important
(14:29):
to bring folks who have never done community organizing?
What ways do you communicate that?
Because I do think that there are folks that feel like this is
not really my wheelhouse. This is something that I'm not
familiar with. I feel like I'm not aware enough
(14:52):
of that. I should be in the space.
What did it take for you to get involved with that work?
But also, how do you bring people to the table?
Totally, Yeah. And I'm not sure how much
background's going into this, but as a brief background, I
started organizing around 2021 when there were a lot of attacks
on Asian people in New York City.
(15:13):
I think that's when I felt the pull of like, I'm Asian, I
should be doing something. One of the few cases when it was
very racialized and I'm like, I think I want to be doing
something. So I got a really involved
within a lot of organizing around anti displacement in
Chinatown. So that was like 2021 to around
2020, end of 2024. And then now especially towards
(15:35):
the end of 2024 till now, which is like almost the end of 2025,
it's really been about very hyperlocal organizing within
Crown Heights. So that's the background.
And at some point towards the end of 2024 is when I started
making videos just kind of summarizing experiences that I
saw not only from myself, but from other organizing groups,
(15:56):
just from friends or in other groups.
It's all just like people sharing their experiences.
And the videos I've made were very focused on like behaviors
that could we can or destroy organizing, but also videos for
new people who are like, I want to get involved but I don't know
how. Or like I want to find a group
to organize with but I don't know how.
(16:16):
Like I want to find a friend to organize with but I don't know
how. I don't know how to talk to my
neighbors. So I just made a ton of videos
on that. And sorry, what was the original
question again? Well, I think, I think this is
something that you really had onhere because I always think that
for community organizing, and I say this from a lens of having
(16:38):
some adjacency to that world in Chicago.
But so many of my friends who have been involved with
organizing advocacy level. And I feel that there is this
pressure of trying to be perfect, like I have to do the
right things. You know, if I don't, I'm going
to, you know, face repercussionsfrom my community.
(17:02):
I wonder if you can kind of likeshare more about that part
because I think that like as Asian folks, we're, we've been
so trained to try to be perfect,to try to overachieve, try to,
you know, I guess in some ways gain validation and in a way,
but how do we give ourselves that grace?
I think that I think it can be very difficult when we put so
(17:23):
much or when organizers or activists can put so much on
their plate and not giving themselves a break because if
they feel like they're letting go of the paddle, then they feel
responsible for it. So I'm curious about what you've
observed from that lens. Yeah.
I, I, I, I guess I could speak from my own experience.
(17:47):
I'm not sure if this is something I would raise.
I don't know enough Asian organizers who are actually Type
A to, to make a more general statement about this.
I, I can say that, you know, I would consider myself a very
type A person who can be very perfectionist, right?
And I think through organizing, you know, one thing that I've
learned is just to really rotatethe tasks and like delegate them
(18:11):
out more and sort of strengthen numbers, whatever you want to
call it. But that did that did take some
time. Like I remember when I was on as
part of like the Chinatown organizing part of this picket
line. And I always, I would always get
very annoyed when people weren'tactually standing in like a line
and they were just kind of standing in a circle.
And if you ask me right now, I would still actually go with a
(18:32):
line because I think it's just visually very clear to people
walking past it. But I think, you know, now I'm
like, OK, if it, if it's not in that particular shape, it's OK
as long as there's still a lot of people, which I did not have
the mentality a while ago. So I'm not actually sure if it's
like a racialized thing or just like a, you know, everyone goes
(18:53):
on their own journey of going from I need this to be perfect
to instead of mentality of done is better than perfect.
I think organizing tends to learn a lot towards done is
better than perfect. When we're talking about people
who are volunteering their time,who are not paid organizers,
they might have two jobs, you know, they might have other
(19:13):
things going on. So yeah, I can't really speak as
much to the Asian element as opposed to just in general.
It can be very hard for, you know, I think it's a learning
process for anyone who's like type A or perfectionist to start
doing things done is better thanperfect.
And just having like a very longterm mentality about like what
(19:34):
actions are actually detrimentalversus some things that are
just, it's not that big of a deal and you're making a big
deal. Yeah.
I think this is something I always think about because
self-care, collective care and also understanding capacity
burnout issues is something thatreally doesn't get talked about
(19:56):
enough because we're constantly in rapid response mode and, and
how do we, I guess, continue to create.
Ways in which we look after one another.
And how have you personally beenable to recognize burnout in
(20:17):
your work and also with other fellow organizers and community
members? Yeah, I think 1 easy way to
recognize burnout is when peopleis when members get angry at
each other. I think that's, that's like a
the smallest sign that I lean towards.
Like people can be angry for a variety of reasons, like
(20:37):
different perspectives on something.
But when it comes to burnout, it's always like, you hear
things like, you know, I've beendoing so much and this person
isn't doing anything. They haven't shown up for the
past two or three weeks. You know, you, you just hear all
these comparisons and that really is a sign of burnout.
(20:58):
Yeah. So that that's like one way to
hear about it. I mean, again, in terms of
actually dealing with it, I always just lean on rotation.
It's like you need to be able torotate the task that you're
doing. If you don't have enough people
to rotate with, you either need to train more people or find
more people and then train them.But that I think that's like the
one the only solutions to deal with this.
(21:19):
Otherwise you're just going to be doing it by yourself each
week. Yeah, I think that is very, I
think it's very important to like, you know, recognize the
rotation. I can also recognize the trans,
the power of transparency. And it's like, hey, I need to
express my needs right now. Like I'm struggling at the
moment. How can I step back?
(21:40):
How can this person help to support me or how can my
community help to support me? And and when I do come back, how
can I also do the same for otherfolks?
I think that it's because the way our capitalism runs is it's
meant to destroy our communities.
And, and I say this, I know it sounds like I'm being very
(22:02):
binary as I'm saying this or being very simple as I say this,
but that it like capitalism is away of trying to overwork us to
kill our spirits and we're organizing.
It's hard to like fight against the capitalistic machines that
are seeking to destroy. And that can be very challenging
(22:23):
and very taxing. And yeah, I've seen many
organizers burnout or have mental scars from this work.
And so I'm very curious about like, maybe small wins that you
have experienced with the community.
And I was wondering if you couldshare some of the things that
you have been proud of during those moments?
(22:45):
Totally. Yeah.
And I guess a quick note about the burnout is, you know,
self-care looks different for everyone.
But again, it's like if you findyourself always comparing how
much you're doing to other people, that's the first sign to
start doing rotation. Maybe get yourself a nice treat
and really, you know, press a little bit on the brakes versus
trying to just go full steam ahead.
(23:07):
But to answer your question now about like small wins.
I mean, I talked about this a little bit earlier about getting
to know your neighbors. Like I, I think in all the other
buildings I've lived in in New York City, I maybe knew one or
two people versus now it's like I can, there is probably like 15
neighbors I could DM message. We like say hi, you know, we tap
(23:28):
each other up. You know, it's, it's, it's, it
feels so rewarding to have that on a daily basis.
The building I live in is also very tenant organized.
So lots of skill sharing, lots of free item giveaways, lots of
texting each other as soon as the elevator stops working or
like a breaker stops working. I think it's a level of
(23:50):
relationship that I've not had since being here.
So I feel very rewarded by that on a daily basis.
In terms of larger organizing, I'm still trying to figure my
way out through a lot of Crown Heights things like I always
tell myself that, you know, we measure our plans in centuries,
right? To think of the long term, so I
can see myself in like another two or three months having a
(24:12):
much stronger role with like some of the things that I want
to do. But for the past few months, I
think the biggest wins have justbeen building relationships
again with people in the groups.I think it always comes back to
the relationship no matter whereyou are.
Just like making friends, hanging out, understanding like
the political goal, but just really, really building like a
solid relationship and not just like a Co worker relationship
(24:36):
where we just show up to work and then go home.
What resistance have you faced in your organizing work, and
how, and what has the response been when you're dealing with
blowback I. Guess it depends on what kind of
blowback we're talking about, but let me ask you this first.
(24:56):
What examples did you have in mind?
Well, like maybe from developersor with elected officials or
with community groups that do not align with the align with
your group's values and mission.Yeah.
(25:17):
So I'd probably, I'd probably divide this to like external
blowback and internal blowback, right.
Like internal blowback's always within a group.
I kind of leave internal blowback out of discussions
because I feel like that's just stuff for an internal group to
work on. And I don't believe in gossip
that much. So I mean internal blowback, I
(25:39):
feel like for anything like for me, what it looks like is, you
know, when on on the picket line, we're telling people to
not support these institutions that support a lot of these
really rich Chinatown developers.
And people are just like, I don't care.
I'm going to go in anyways. That that's like one very easy
way of just like, they're like, I don't care what you said, I'm
still going. And, and it does suck, right?
(25:59):
But in those moments, it's more like keeping track of the winds
of people who actually supportedthe picket line versus didn't in
the Chinatown days. It's just being framed as, you
know, paid protesters. But I feel like more people
might hear now, but it's like, we're paid protesters.
We're charlatans. We're just trying to get money
for ourselves. There will be a period
(26:21):
potentially, depending on what you're doing, of like, people
are really trying to frame you with the worst intentions to
get, you know, to get you to lose support, right?
But those are some examples of like external blowback that I've
seen before. Something that also stood out
for me, and I was just thinking about this is one of the
(26:41):
struggles that, you know, in theAsian American communities or,
and other marginalized communities is language
barriers. And as someone like myself,
that's Vietnamese and Cambodian,I really don't have a grasp on
both languages. And I think this is very true
for a lot of us that live in thediaspora or that live as second
(27:01):
generation folks that don't havethe language ability to talk
with their parents, to talk withtheir grandparents, to talk with
older community members. What do you know or what have
you seen in, you know, helping folks to navigate language
difficulties or language barriers with community members
(27:22):
that don't have the the English proficiency?
Yeah, I think that's still a pretty big challenge today.
I mean, I, I don't have any actually good solutions for
this. I just can speak from what I
see. Many organizing groups in like
the Brooklyn neighborhood are always like, we need this flyer
to be translated to Chinese, Arabic and Spanish, and then
(27:45):
sometimes like Haitian Creole. And I'm not sure how many
volunteers there are for that translation or what the solution
is in terms of how we can easilyfind those people on a
consistent basis. I mean, I grew up going to
Chinese school and so the Mandarin was covered for me.
One thing I did do when I was organizing more in Chinatown was
(28:06):
take Cantonese classes. So that was my own attempt to
bridge the language barrier thatI had cuz a lot of Chinese
workers speak Cantonese in Chinatown.
So that was my only fix for it. And like if I had unlimited
time, it's like, yeah, I guess Icould learn my second language I
always wanted to learn was Arabic.
But it's like I don't have the time to do that.
(28:27):
And it might be another three orfour years before I actually
have the proficiency to be able to translate a flyer or speak to
someone very well in a conversation.
But if anyone has solutions, I'm, I'm actually very curious.
I just know that's a very strongneed for like consistent
translation, not like a one off person.
Like if there's some community agency or org that does that,
(28:49):
that would be really cool. Yeah, you know what, I I was
just thinking about the air positive that has a language
translation. Now I'm not there to endorse
Apple, so let's be very clear here.
But yeah, I I kind of wonder about these weird technologies
with translation, if it's even useful.
So I, I'm very leery of it and I'm like, OK, we, I think, I
think that is a challenge because then I know in the
(29:11):
Vietnamese community, there's a lot of Vietnamese propaganda
radio that a lot of our elders listen to.
And especially in Orange County where it's a, it's still a
strong Republican bashed in there.
And, and for us millennial Gen. Z folks, it's, it's a struggle
to have those conversations because like we have seen Asian
(29:33):
folks, including my community members were part of January 6th
and that was very galling. That was very jarring.
And like, do you have conversations with your family
on the work that you do and whathas their response been like?
Oh, yeah, totally. I mean, I would say like broadly
(29:54):
speaking, I, I feel like all, all members of my family voted
for Trump even in 2024. But but how I play organizing in
general is it's, I would frame it as a difference first between
organizing and activism, right? Where organizing we're actually
(30:15):
trying to build relationships tochange people's minds.
Activism is like, you know, justlike talking out people about
this issue and then this issue and then this issue.
So within my outside, within my own experiences, it's like,
yeah, I, I think I've had the most success talking to my
(30:36):
family first about not not even politics, but just building the
relationship. Like I used to have many more
arguments with my family about politics.
We had like 10 paragraph long e-mail threads, you know,
periods of no communication. So I've kind of seen that and
what it looks like. But I think just first after
having an actual relationship built on some commonality of
(30:59):
like, oh, we're going to visit our family together.
I think that opens the doors more for actual political
conversation when it comes up. So that that's my only take on
this right now is because I'm still trying to figure this out
myself. But it's like build the
relationship first over other things and slowly talk about the
politics instead of trying to pick the path of like most
resistance, which is like going going in like guns blazing with
(31:21):
like, here are the 20 reasons why Trump is bad.
You know, Epstein list, you nameit.
Yeah, yeah. What made Trump appealing to
your family? I'm.
I think this is a question that I ask a lot of my Asian
colleagues on this. Oh yeah, I'd say like top 21 is
(31:44):
like he's one is that I think they think he's very anti CCP,
but he's very like anti communist.
You know that that's a whole thing.
And I think the other one might be the economy.
Just thinking about my own parents, it's one of those two,
anti communist and pro economy. That is a, that is like an
(32:08):
interesting commonality that I see.
I see this within our communities because the word
communism is like a red flag forthe South Vietnamese elders.
And I feel like there's something about the Republican
Party that's so good at weaponizing their trauma and
like, you know, and beating thatlike, like and being that on the
(32:31):
drum, I think that that's something that's like, how do we
counter that? I, I had this interview with
Michelle Kim the other day aboutthis.
And she said, like, I had to switch from going from the moral
policing to like, let me learn about your story.
Like, why are you scared? How do I try to meet halfway?
You know, even though it has like the both side isms to it,
(32:53):
but like how do I try to find a way to connect to something that
really hits them hard? Like what brings out that
passion and where is that comingfrom?
I think that's certainly something I think about, you
know, like how do we navigate these very difficult
conversations? And I mean, I know that you
don't have the solution to it yet.
(33:13):
Like, we all are still, in a way, searching for that.
What does it look like? Some can be pulled out of it,
you know, But others, you know, are unfortunately entrenched in
very harmful beliefs and practices.
So yeah, I know I'm kind of likerambling on on this part, but
this is something that has always probably kept me up on
(33:34):
many nights. Yeah, I mean, I agree with many
of the things you said. My own take on this is that I, I
mean, my own take is time will tell.
And with regards to communism specifically, we're hearing that
(33:54):
a lot in New York City, right? Donald Trump is attacking Zoran.
I'm Donnie all day now for beinga communist, right?
Socialist doesn't have the same ring to it anymore.
And now he's going communist, right?
He's fully trying to lean into the Red Scare.
But a lot of people really like Zoran.
My sister, who definitely voted for Trump also really likes
Zoran as like a charismatic figure, whether his, you know,
(34:14):
policies around like, you know, the, the, the universal pre-K,
like the, the free Group, One free grocery store in each
borough, the free buses, whetherthat actually, you know, if it
works, I think that's a huge plus for quote, UN quote,
communism or socialism or anything in that direction,
right? But to me, like, I, I kind of
dropped that point of discussionfor right now because we kind of
(34:38):
know where it leads. Like we pulled the historical
references of like Mao or like Vietnam or whatever, right?
And then we go into a historicalthing of like it happened in the
past, it might happen now. I don't think any of that
matters at this point. It's like time will tell what
the current implementation of communism or socialism looks
like. And that'll probably start with
the election of Zoran. Yeah, right now we are dealing
(35:01):
with ice race that are happening, being in Chicago that
is already starting to become a hot center along with Portland
and LA. And I think this is something to
really pay very close attention to because people are getting
snatched off the streets that including U.S. citizens and and
and it's becoming let's just be called for what it is.
(35:25):
I mean, the Trump administrationhas gone very rogue and saw VICE
agents and it's been terrorizinga lot of communities.
I'm curious to see what you havenoticed from Crown Heights and
how have the community been organizing to to resist against
(35:45):
the ICE raids that are happening.
Yeah, I will say I have limited knowledge of this.
I know many groups who have done, you know, know Your rights
workshops. My own take on this right now is
I'm not sure how effective thoseare because I don't think any
ICE agent is actually respectinganyone's rights.
You know, it's like, do you havea warrant?
And they're like this, that's a fantasy now.
(36:07):
And then they like break open your door with one of those like
battering ram things. So I see a lot of know your
rights workshops. I see a lot of people proposing
ideas of, you know, rapid response networks, but I don't
know how much actual capacity there is for that.
I'm, that's what I see right now.
Most of what's happening in New York is always happening at 26
(36:30):
Federal Plaza, like the courthouse, You know, you just
have like 15 ICE agents lined upoutside the courthouse where
like someone's scheduled to havetheir, like, appointment for
that day for like legal paperwork or something.
And then after they come out of the courthouse, they just arrest
them. So I'm like, that seems like the
predominant form of arrest happening in New York City.
(36:50):
But yeah, with again within Crown Heights, there's, I don't
if there is one that I'm not plugged into it for like a solid
wrapper response neighborhood level thing.
There's a lot of proposals for it, but I don't think there's
anything like super solid right now.
As far as the work that you're currently doing, what are you
looking to spend more time on? And also in terms of the
(37:13):
relationship that you have with your neighbors, your community
members, what ideas are you currently working on and what
practices are you hoping to put together?
Totally. Yeah, IA lot of it's with like
two different Crown Heights groups.
One's focused at a tenant level and then the other one's focused
at like a block level. So you know, in New York City we
(37:34):
have like block parties occasionally and like so like
block associations in general. So I really want to spend like
the next few years continuing tohopefully live in the same
building and then also having more relationships at a block
level because I think that's like the level that I've never
heard of really built out before.
(37:57):
But I think it could be really powerful, whether we talk about
like elections or a larger neighborhood activity or
political, whatever you call it to 1st, just build those
relationships beyond a building onto multiple buildings in a
row, onto like multiple blocks in a row.
What are the things that make you proud to be a New York City
(38:17):
residents, especially Crown Heights?
What makes it very special to you as a resident?
Yeah. I think Crown Heights has one of
the strongest community organizing scenes.
Like when I think about groups in the neighborhood, I can think
about like four or five versus other areas where I'm like, I
think there's one group here. So I think in terms of the
(38:39):
amount of organizing here, that's very cool.
In terms of, I think, I think that's what I'd, I think that's
the only thing I'd really say interms of like organizing with
New York City in general. You know, it's like, oh, New
York City has a really, you know, high density, a lot of
people here. That's always nice for finding
new people to get involved with groups.
(39:01):
And for better, for worse, you know, we have the eyes of the
Trump administration all the time.
You know, like, I guess kind of similar to California, but it
seems like even even my family in Arkansas, you know, my sister
who was in like, Tennessee, everyone is paying attention to
New York City news and it's policies and it's politics, you
(39:23):
know, So it, it feels kind of cool to have the spotlight.
But also is, yeah, I guess we'llsee what happens, what steps.
Can people take to be involved and what opportunities are there
if you're not able to like, for example, use your body as a
defense against police and ice? Like what other ways of
(39:44):
supporting community organizing work?
What can it look like for someone that's brand new to
this? Yeah, I think that really how
people can get involved really depends on what they care about
and what options are available. So, you know, something I see a
lot of New York City is a lot of, you know, jail support,
(40:06):
mutual aid and food distribution, right those.
Those don't require you to, you know, be chanting at anything,
but like, it's a very routine way of like, OK, we have a lot
of people getting released everyday.
We're here to provide them support in this forum.
Broadly speaking for your question, I would just say, you
know, think about what you care about, find what groups there
(40:29):
are and then have them sort of breakdown what are like the
smaller actions you can do and then what are the larger ones
and go from there. I wanted to ask you this
question like what led you and Jerry to sunset politically
Asian? What did you learn from that
podcast experience? And, and are you still in
contact with Jerry? Cuz I, I have not ever been in
(40:52):
conversation with Jerry, which Jerry, Hey, if you're listening.
So I'm very curious about that cuz it was one of my favorite
shows. I felt like at that time, there
were not many progressive leaning Asian American podcasts
at that time, and there weren't very many to begin with.
And I felt like your content really raised a lot of
(41:13):
visibility and awareness of whatis going on in New York City,
but also in the current landscape.
So yeah, I was very curious about that.
Yeah, I mean, I will say like there's a lot of political Tik
Tokers now, a lot of even a lot like Asian political Tik Tokers
in in a podcast form. Sure, maybe there's not that
many, but I don't, I don't know if it's as needed.
(41:33):
I mean, for for us, it was just mainly the time thing.
Like it was like pretty hard to record and then edit and just
pump out weekly episodes. And I think we've been doing it
for two years with like maybe like moderate traction, but not
like high velocity. So yeah, that's, that was about
it. I'm like, it's funny because
(41:53):
like, I just know a lot of podcasts who are coming and
going even right now, but I feellike it's just, you know,
eventually people stop. Yeah, You know, it's, it's kind
of interesting because I when I left two years ago, I thought I
was really done. I was completely over it by that
point. I'm like, I accomplished
everything I need to do in thosefour years, which four years in
(42:14):
podcasting where I was like 40 years in dog years basically.
And and I felt the need to come back, I think after staying away
for a while and having to deal with, you know, a lot of
personal issues. And once I gave myself the time
to actually live life, I think this is something that we all
have to remember is to live our lives, have a little bit of joy
(42:35):
in our lives because that actually starts to ignite the
creativity, the the motivation, the passion.
And that's what's needed in community organizing work.
And that's something that I feelis very essential to this, not
just self-care, but also collective care.
How do we take care of each other?
And I think coming back to this landscape, it's like, I don't
(42:56):
really know any podcasters, to be honest with you.
It's like it's a whole differentlandscape now.
And I think about like the Joe Rogan's, the Andrew Tates of the
world, the late Charlie Kirk, who made their podcast platforms
like the dominant force for younger Gen.
Z folks. I know that you do a lot of work
(43:17):
on TikTok. I mean, I think TikTok, right?
And I know it for Instagram for sure, like educating folks about
community organizing. What do you hope to to do with
your platform or what are you looking to educate followers and
people in the social media sphere?
(43:39):
Yeah. So when I make the videos that I
make, I always just keep people in mind that I know.
Like these are people who may beorganizing within like a
community organizing group already, or some are like
friends who I would say are, arelike leftist politics minded,
but they don't really do that much in real life.
(44:00):
So my, my goal is to always makevideos for them and on, on a
much broader picture, I guess the thesis in my head is just
there are so many people who areso smart and they have potential
and are so talented who are alsosort of like on, on the scale of
(44:20):
left to right, like definitely more left in terms of politics
who just don't really do that much right now.
And it's kind of like understanding what are the
barriers and like what are the real life things that are
preventing them from taking the first steps and making video
content that sort of gets rid ofthose first steps makes them
unnecessary, you know, try to make try to make the path
(44:42):
easier. Yeah, because I think these days
it's very important for, it's important for other content
creators, especially of marginalized communities, to
share their stories to create platforms because we're seeing
so many right wing fringe voiceslike dominate the airwaves, but
(45:03):
also in the social media landscape.
And I've always feel like so important to find ways to
support and bring stories of what community members are
experiencing, but also what folks are actually doing the
work. Because I, I've, you know, for
me, I've always been a believer that when we show the work
that's being done, it creates hope, it creates opportunities.
(45:27):
And, and I think what you're doing is very essential.
And I'm, I'm a big fan of the work that you've been doing
because it helps to educate and informs folks who are not
knowledgeable about what community organizing looks like.
What does it take to build community?
What does it take to stand up for your rights or for other
(45:47):
people's rights? And what does it mean to, you
know, to continue this work in asafe, in a safe manner?
So I really appreciate what you've been, you know, sharing.
And I was wondering where peoplecan find you and where people
can, you know, follow your next move.
Oh, totally, yes. So my Instagram is Aaron Flarin
(46:10):
under score. So that's a ARONFLARIN under
score just because someone took the original.
And yeah, from there you can find all the other accounts.
There's like YouTube, there's TikTok.
People will know. Yeah, absolutely.
And I wonder if there's any lasting comments or any lasting
points that you would like to share to it could be in any
(46:31):
capacity with the work that you're doing or just in general
or what advice would you even have for folks in, you know,
right now in this current landscape?
Totally. It's always hard for me to give
general advice because I in, in my head of what pops up is like
(46:51):
all these different people that I meet and talk to.
And it's like, oh, there's such a wide scale.
Maybe the maybe I'll just leave with something about, you know,
oh, I know I'll leave with the, this whole saying, I've been
putting a lot on Instagram, which is to do more politics
together over time. So it's like, first, we want
(47:13):
people to do more, right? But we also really, I really
want them to do things together.I always say like if if you're
trying to find one thing that will make everything else
easier, it's finding a friend todo things with together.
So I just say do more politics together.
And then over time, it's not going to be fixed in like a week
or a month or even 3 months or five months or six months.
(47:34):
It might take a year. So just really have that long
term mentality, you know, just.
Hey everyone, this is Randy Kim from the Bunmi Chronicles
podcast and it gives me a great pleasure to bring a person who I
have respected in the past as a former podcaster.
And he and his partner, Jerry Lim were the Co host of the
politically Asian podcast, whichhad sunsetted a few years ago,
(00:26):
which still makes me sad becauseI really do love that podcast.
And and I have been such a fan of your work.
And I know that you have been very involved in community
activism and training folks about what it means to be an
activist, to be involved, to have hard conversations with
(00:46):
people within our Asian communities or any communities
for that matter, that on issues that really are very critical
right now, especially in the Trump administration.
You're also a comedian from my understanding, too.
And first of all, I want to say,how have you been holding up
(01:07):
this year for 2025, going into 2026?
And how has that navigation beenin the work that you're doing?
And I also want to name that you're also based in New York.
Total, Yeah. And Randy, thank you for having
me. Great to actually talk with you
in real life. Right now I'm, I think I'm
holding up OK. Like I focus a lot of my
(01:28):
energies on local energy within Crown Heights, which is a
neighborhood within Brooklyn, NY.
So I think on a day-to-day I feel pretty satisfied because of
the number of neighbors I know in my building and also the
number of people who I know within like a 10 block radius of
me, which had never happened before in my like 8 years of
living in New York City. It's been very rewarding.
(01:52):
I guess against the backdrop of,you know, ICE or you know,
Palestine marches, whatever you have it.
It's, I've never had such a strong network of relationships
locally. So I I feel pretty good.
Yeah, I also want to tell the viewers that the time stamp is
October 9th, 3 O 9:00 PM U.S. central Standard Time.
So I just want to bring this up for context too.
(02:16):
So given what has happened this year, especially what has
happened with Palestine and now with the ICE raids that are
happening, what does being both Asian American and an activist
will look like in this climate, at least for you in in this
(02:36):
manner? Yeah, I'm not sure how much of
an impact it is had like like race specific in this context,
like the I haven't done as much anti ice activity.
I mainly do like as like local neighborhood organizing.
Been to a few pro Palestine marches, including one in Crown
Heights, actually a big one, which was there's a very big
(02:58):
landlord called Pinnacle within Crown Heights, Brooklyn.
And they own a a giant portfolioof buildings.
And recently they've been just like neglecting the tenants on a
very severe level. But they, the tenants recently
found out that Pinnacle actuallysupplies a lot of funding to
Israel. So it's like, wow, they're
(03:19):
taking all their money from their tenants and directly
giving it to Israel. While also not like the tenants.
They have like so many rats, so many cockroaches, no heat, no
electricity. So there was like a rally that
tied the two issues together. But to bring it back to your
question, yeah, I haven't reallymisspelled any sort of racial
awkwardness or like isolation around it.
(03:41):
Like there are Asian people in the Crown Heights neighborhood
and who I know, but I guess we Idon't primarily lean on that as
much as I did maybe a few years ago.
And you were also originally from Arkansas as well, as if, if
I remember correctly, right? Totally, yeah.
I grew up in Little Rock, AR Asian population like 2%, two
percent, 3% so pretty small. Yeah.
(04:04):
So how did like living in Arkansas inform your own
community activism work and yourown I and and the work that you
do and in your relationship withyour own community and in as far
as the Asian American experiencegoes?
Totally. I mean, in general, big picture
(04:27):
wise, in high school, you know, K through 12, in general, I was
not, I would say, an organizer by any means.
I was pretty apolitical, very typical, like hyper academic
student. I took like 22 AP classes in
high school. Just like very like, you know,
head in the ground Ivy League, you know, gutting for the Ivy
League orchestra, science, math,whatever you can think of, you
(04:50):
name it. I think the one tiny different
thing I did was like, there was this oral history project I did
in high school that really focused on people's experiences
with racism, homophobia, sexism,because the high school I went
to was famous or infamous for for it's racism.
Little Rock Central High School that like was an all white high
(05:12):
school and they had to have non black students brought into the
school with the National Guard. So that was my only true
experience with anything relatedto, I guess the oppression that
we talked about about today. Aside from that, even though
Little Rock AR was only two or three percent Asian, at least
(05:34):
for Chinese people, there are a lot of ways to find each other.
There was like Chinese school, there's orchestra, there's math,
there's science, there's ways offinding other people.
So I, I actually never really had the experience that, you
know, many Asians have of like being the only Asian person in
all white class, like maybe someclasses, but there were enough
(05:54):
classes and activities where there are other Asian people.
And what led you to living in New York City and which is a
huge cultural shift from Arkansas little town to to the
big city where the diversity is very up in very much in
abundance. Like what?
What led you to New York City? Yeah, I originally moved here
(06:18):
for the comedy like you mentioned, you know, very big on
originally, really big on improv.
I took so many improv classes and I was doing so many stand up
open mics. I was originally debating
between New York City, Chicago and LA actually because of the
comedy scene. But at the time, my dad, he had
(06:39):
a temporary job in upstate New York.
So that's the only reason why I ended up in New York City,
because I first moved in with him for a few weeks and then
slowly kept going back and forthbetween upstate New York and New
York City to check out apartments and then finally
found one and moved down. Wow.
And being a comedian. So sorry about that.
I think so, yeah. Yeah.
And being a comedian. Oops, sorry.
(07:05):
I wonder about what it means to be a comedian, especially as
someone who's Asian American. And given that, I don't know
what year you entered into it, but there was a dearth of Asian
Americans in that scene. And what did you learn from that
experience and how did it in a way cross into the political
(07:30):
community level work that you were doing or that you're doing
now? Yeah, I would say in New York
City at least there's there's a fair amount of Asian American
comedians. We're talking like East Asian,
Southeast Asian, South Asian. But one learning experience is
the topics, right. I feel like going to an open
(07:51):
mic, at least in New York City back then, and I went two months
ago to see a friend. So I guess even now it kind of
feels like you're just taking a like you're doing time travel to
the past where it's like, you know, you might still hear jokes
about like Asian people not being able to drive sometimes
Asian people eating the dogs, not as much, you know, maybe
(08:15):
some like World War 2, Japan dropping a bomb type of jokes.
It's such a time travel. And it's like when you escape
from the open mic scene and you're just on Twitter, on
Instagram, on YouTube, you don'thear any of that, right?
We're we're talking K pop now, Kpop, demon hunters, whatever.
It's just such AII can't phrase it anywhere else except for like
(08:37):
a time travel, like the materialand the mindsets.
So that took some time getting used to.
I guess part of the reason why Istarted doing open mics in 2018,
but I stopped around 2023, is partially trying to deal with
that huge disconnect between thevery contemporary politics and
the sort of old timey, you know,mind mentality when stand up.
(09:02):
I'm not exactly sure what the best way is to bridge comedy and
politics right now. A lot of people do talk shows,
right? That's one very contemporary
way. But it was so hard to be like
talking about, you know, during when I was doing politically
Asian, very contemporary news, very fresh jokes of all kinds,
like Asian, not Asian, whatever.And then to go back to an open
mic where it's like, so Asian people can't drive, right?
(09:23):
Unless it's so weird to go back and forth between those two,
that is. That is part of the reason why I
stopped doing stand up comedy and just kind of learn more into
the politics. Do you, do you often feel that
like from your experience as a past comedian, what Asian
Americans, do you feel like theyare afraid to venture out into
(09:44):
the politics or going out to themore meaty stuff?
Because I think what really has annoyed me in the past, I used
to have my grievances with largeAsian American comedians don't
feel like naming names here, butlike, but like, I feel that
sometimes I see them going into a more surface level, more
acceptable, palatable way of telling their comedy without
(10:08):
like really offending white people enough.
There's about there. I'm pretty sure that that it's
got to feel really challenging to be in that atmosphere.
But I I wondered, is this something that you feel has
happened a lot in that communityof comedians?
(10:30):
I think there's a general theme of many comedians avoiding
politics, but not not just Asians.
So like, this is I think in how I approach things is always
like, is this something that needs to be racialized or does
not need to be racialized? And it's like, of course, I can
think of many Asian comedians who don't do politics, but I can
(10:51):
also think of many white people who don't do politics or even
black people. And what I've been telling
people recently actually, is fora long for the longest time,
there's been this aversion to politics from comedians, but now
it seems unavoidable, like politics seems unavoidable.
I don't know if you heard about the Ryder Comedy Festival.
(11:12):
Did you see that? I'm trying to remember.
I haven't heard. I don't think I've heard the
full story on that. It's a big festival that
happened maybe 2 weeks ago in Saudi Arabia and a lot of famous
comedians like Dave Chappelle, Bill Burr, whatever were invited
and they were getting absolutelysmoked for taking so much money
(11:35):
to perform there directly for like the the Crown Prince who
has journal. We're we're talking like
journalist assassinations, you know, huge suppression.
And they're all like, I don't care, I'm just doing it for the
paycheck. But a lot of comedians are now
actually mad at that, which I don't think would have happened
a few years ago. So there is some kind of
(11:56):
political conscious shift happening slowly in stand up
comedy. That's not Asian specific, but I
think it's like just starting now, like just with, you know, a
lot of stand up comedians feeling really bad about what
Trump is doing now. And they're like, whoa, whoa,
whoa, I didn't support this, blah, blah, blah.
I have more nuance now. They're just now reaping what
(12:18):
they sow and just now having to think about, you know, taking a
stand on things. Yeah, I think it's also very
interesting because I have been thinking about celebrity culture
and how celebrity culture is perhaps dying.
I don't know if it still is. I mean, there's still a huge
component that's still there. I mean, we're seeing Taylor
Swift, obviously, and Beyoncé and and I think about what
(12:43):
blowback they're dealing with because they are billionaires.
They are very wealthy, very privileged.
And Beyoncé and Jay-Z, we're outhaving dinner with the Kushner's
and Taylor Swift is Taylor Swift.
I know the Swift is going to come after me.
I do not give a damn, but that'sa whole nerd subject.
So like, I kind of wonder like, is that paradigm really
(13:06):
shifting, especially like what is happening with Gaza?
I, I've seen more of a gradual shift from like celebrities with
big platforms starting to speak out and there's plenty of others
that still remain silent. I don't know.
I'm, I'm just kind of like throwing that out there because
I, I don't know if this is the, if, if I'm making this up or,
(13:27):
but do we do do you think that we're finally seeing that
paradigm shift happen, especially at the most critical
time? To be honest, I'm not sure.
Like when you mention that, whatfills my head is all those
letters of celebrities, you know, promising to actually
boycott Israel or not participate in any Israeli
films. Like there's so many positive
(13:48):
signals. And I think as of this recording
recently, there is the the news about an actual ceasefire,
right? Like Trump had brokered some 20
point deal between Israel and Hamas to do something.
I don't know. The short answer is I don't
know. I can name many celebrities now
who are very pro Palestine. I can name many who are
Zionists. Many are comedians.
(14:09):
But I don't know if there's enough to do some overall shift
within like entertainment. I have no idea.
Yeah. Yeah.
And so when so like currently, like when you got involved with
community organizing, what can you say has been very important
(14:29):
to bring folks who have never done community organizing?
What ways do you communicate that?
Because I do think that there are folks that feel like this is
not really my wheelhouse. This is something that I'm not
familiar with. I feel like I'm not aware enough
(14:52):
of that. I should be in the space.
What did it take for you to get involved with that work?
But also, how do you bring people to the table?
Totally, Yeah. And I'm not sure how much
background's going into this, but as a brief background, I
started organizing around 2021 when there were a lot of attacks
on Asian people in New York City.
(15:13):
I think that's when I felt the pull of like, I'm Asian, I
should be doing something. One of the few cases when it was
very racialized and I'm like, I think I want to be doing
something. So I got a really involved
within a lot of organizing around anti displacement in
Chinatown. So that was like 2021 to around
2020, end of 2024. And then now especially towards
(15:35):
the end of 2024 till now, which is like almost the end of 2025,
it's really been about very hyperlocal organizing within
Crown Heights. So that's the background.
And at some point towards the end of 2024 is when I started
making videos just kind of summarizing experiences that I
saw not only from myself, but from other organizing groups,
(15:56):
just from friends or in other groups.
It's all just like people sharing their experiences.
And the videos I've made were very focused on like behaviors
that could we can or destroy organizing, but also videos for
new people who are like, I want to get involved but I don't know
how. Or like I want to find a group
to organize with but I don't know how.
(16:16):
Like I want to find a friend to organize with but I don't know
how. I don't know how to talk to my
neighbors. So I just made a ton of videos
on that. And sorry, what was the original
question again? Well, I think, I think this is
something that you really had onhere because I always think that
for community organizing, and I say this from a lens of having
(16:38):
some adjacency to that world in Chicago.
But so many of my friends who have been involved with
organizing advocacy level. And I feel that there is this
pressure of trying to be perfect, like I have to do the
right things. You know, if I don't, I'm going
to, you know, face repercussionsfrom my community.
(17:02):
I wonder if you can kind of likeshare more about that part
because I think that like as Asian folks, we're, we've been
so trained to try to be perfect,to try to overachieve, try to,
you know, I guess in some ways gain validation and in a way,
but how do we give ourselves that grace?
I think that I think it can be very difficult when we put so
(17:23):
much or when organizers or activists can put so much on
their plate and not giving themselves a break because if
they feel like they're letting go of the paddle, then they feel
responsible for it. So I'm curious about what you've
observed from that lens. Yeah.
I, I, I, I guess I could speak from my own experience.
(17:47):
I'm not sure if this is something I would raise.
I don't know enough Asian organizers who are actually Type
A to, to make a more general statement about this.
I, I can say that, you know, I would consider myself a very
type A person who can be very perfectionist, right?
And I think through organizing, you know, one thing that I've
learned is just to really rotatethe tasks and like delegate them
(18:11):
out more and sort of strengthen numbers, whatever you want to
call it. But that did that did take some
time. Like I remember when I was on as
part of like the Chinatown organizing part of this picket
line. And I always, I would always get
very annoyed when people weren'tactually standing in like a line
and they were just kind of standing in a circle.
And if you ask me right now, I would still actually go with a
(18:32):
line because I think it's just visually very clear to people
walking past it. But I think, you know, now I'm
like, OK, if it, if it's not in that particular shape, it's OK
as long as there's still a lot of people, which I did not have
the mentality a while ago. So I'm not actually sure if it's
like a racialized thing or just like a, you know, everyone goes
(18:53):
on their own journey of going from I need this to be perfect
to instead of mentality of done is better than perfect.
I think organizing tends to learn a lot towards done is
better than perfect. When we're talking about people
who are volunteering their time,who are not paid organizers,
they might have two jobs, you know, they might have other
(19:13):
things going on. So yeah, I can't really speak as
much to the Asian element as opposed to just in general.
It can be very hard for, you know, I think it's a learning
process for anyone who's like type A or perfectionist to start
doing things done is better thanperfect.
And just having like a very longterm mentality about like what
(19:34):
actions are actually detrimentalversus some things that are
just, it's not that big of a deal and you're making a big
deal. Yeah.
I think this is something I always think about because
self-care, collective care and also understanding capacity
burnout issues is something thatreally doesn't get talked about
(19:56):
enough because we're constantly in rapid response mode and, and
how do we, I guess, continue to create.
Ways in which we look after one another.
And how have you personally beenable to recognize burnout in
(20:17):
your work and also with other fellow organizers and community
members? Yeah, I think 1 easy way to
recognize burnout is when peopleis when members get angry at
each other. I think that's, that's like a
the smallest sign that I lean towards.
Like people can be angry for a variety of reasons, like
(20:37):
different perspectives on something.
But when it comes to burnout, it's always like, you hear
things like, you know, I've beendoing so much and this person
isn't doing anything. They haven't shown up for the
past two or three weeks. You know, you, you just hear all
these comparisons and that really is a sign of burnout.
(20:58):
Yeah. So that that's like one way to
hear about it. I mean, again, in terms of
actually dealing with it, I always just lean on rotation.
It's like you need to be able torotate the task that you're
doing. If you don't have enough people
to rotate with, you either need to train more people or find
more people and then train them.But that I think that's like the
one the only solutions to deal with this.
(21:19):
Otherwise you're just going to be doing it by yourself each
week. Yeah, I think that is very, I
think it's very important to like, you know, recognize the
rotation. I can also recognize the trans,
the power of transparency. And it's like, hey, I need to
express my needs right now. Like I'm struggling at the
moment. How can I step back?
(21:40):
How can this person help to support me or how can my
community help to support me? And and when I do come back, how
can I also do the same for otherfolks?
I think that it's because the way our capitalism runs is it's
meant to destroy our communities.
And, and I say this, I know it sounds like I'm being very
(22:02):
binary as I'm saying this or being very simple as I say this,
but that it like capitalism is away of trying to overwork us to
kill our spirits and we're organizing.
It's hard to like fight against the capitalistic machines that
are seeking to destroy. And that can be very challenging
(22:23):
and very taxing. And yeah, I've seen many
organizers burnout or have mental scars from this work.
And so I'm very curious about like, maybe small wins that you
have experienced with the community.
And I was wondering if you couldshare some of the things that
you have been proud of during those moments?
(22:45):
Totally. Yeah.
And I guess a quick note about the burnout is, you know,
self-care looks different for everyone.
But again, it's like if you findyourself always comparing how
much you're doing to other people, that's the first sign to
start doing rotation. Maybe get yourself a nice treat
and really, you know, press a little bit on the brakes versus
trying to just go full steam ahead.
(23:07):
But to answer your question now about like small wins.
I mean, I talked about this a little bit earlier about getting
to know your neighbors. Like I, I think in all the other
buildings I've lived in in New York City, I maybe knew one or
two people versus now it's like I can, there is probably like 15
neighbors I could DM message. We like say hi, you know, we tap
(23:28):
each other up. You know, it's, it's, it's, it
feels so rewarding to have that on a daily basis.
The building I live in is also very tenant organized.
So lots of skill sharing, lots of free item giveaways, lots of
texting each other as soon as the elevator stops working or
like a breaker stops working. I think it's a level of
(23:50):
relationship that I've not had since being here.
So I feel very rewarded by that on a daily basis.
In terms of larger organizing, I'm still trying to figure my
way out through a lot of Crown Heights things like I always
tell myself that, you know, we measure our plans in centuries,
right? To think of the long term, so I
can see myself in like another two or three months having a
(24:12):
much stronger role with like some of the things that I want
to do. But for the past few months, I
think the biggest wins have justbeen building relationships
again with people in the groups.I think it always comes back to
the relationship no matter whereyou are.
Just like making friends, hanging out, understanding like
the political goal, but just really, really building like a
solid relationship and not just like a Co worker relationship
(24:36):
where we just show up to work and then go home.
What resistance have you faced in your organizing work, and
how, and what has the response been when you're dealing with
blowback I. Guess it depends on what kind of
blowback we're talking about, but let me ask you this first.
(24:56):
What examples did you have in mind?
Well, like maybe from developersor with elected officials or
with community groups that do not align with the align with
your group's values and mission.Yeah.
(25:17):
So I'd probably, I'd probably divide this to like external
blowback and internal blowback, right.
Like internal blowback's always within a group.
I kind of leave internal blowback out of discussions
because I feel like that's just stuff for an internal group to
work on. And I don't believe in gossip
that much. So I mean internal blowback, I
(25:39):
feel like for anything like for me, what it looks like is, you
know, when on on the picket line, we're telling people to
not support these institutions that support a lot of these
really rich Chinatown developers.
And people are just like, I don't care.
I'm going to go in anyways. That that's like one very easy
way of just like, they're like, I don't care what you said, I'm
still going. And, and it does suck, right?
(25:59):
But in those moments, it's more like keeping track of the winds
of people who actually supportedthe picket line versus didn't in
the Chinatown days. It's just being framed as, you
know, paid protesters. But I feel like more people
might hear now, but it's like, we're paid protesters.
We're charlatans. We're just trying to get money
for ourselves. There will be a period
(26:21):
potentially, depending on what you're doing, of like, people
are really trying to frame you with the worst intentions to
get, you know, to get you to lose support, right?
But those are some examples of like external blowback that I've
seen before. Something that also stood out
for me, and I was just thinking about this is one of the
(26:41):
struggles that, you know, in theAsian American communities or,
and other marginalized communities is language
barriers. And as someone like myself,
that's Vietnamese and Cambodian,I really don't have a grasp on
both languages. And I think this is very true
for a lot of us that live in thediaspora or that live as second
(27:01):
generation folks that don't havethe language ability to talk
with their parents, to talk withtheir grandparents, to talk with
older community members. What do you know or what have
you seen in, you know, helping folks to navigate language
difficulties or language barriers with community members
(27:22):
that don't have the the English proficiency?
Yeah, I think that's still a pretty big challenge today.
I mean, I, I don't have any actually good solutions for
this. I just can speak from what I
see. Many organizing groups in like
the Brooklyn neighborhood are always like, we need this flyer
to be translated to Chinese, Arabic and Spanish, and then
(27:45):
sometimes like Haitian Creole. And I'm not sure how many
volunteers there are for that translation or what the solution
is in terms of how we can easilyfind those people on a
consistent basis. I mean, I grew up going to
Chinese school and so the Mandarin was covered for me.
One thing I did do when I was organizing more in Chinatown was
(28:06):
take Cantonese classes. So that was my own attempt to
bridge the language barrier thatI had cuz a lot of Chinese
workers speak Cantonese in Chinatown.
So that was my only fix for it. And like if I had unlimited
time, it's like, yeah, I guess Icould learn my second language I
always wanted to learn was Arabic.
But it's like I don't have the time to do that.
(28:27):
And it might be another three orfour years before I actually
have the proficiency to be able to translate a flyer or speak to
someone very well in a conversation.
But if anyone has solutions, I'm, I'm actually very curious.
I just know that's a very strongneed for like consistent
translation, not like a one off person.
Like if there's some community agency or org that does that,
(28:49):
that would be really cool. Yeah, you know what, I I was
just thinking about the air positive that has a language
translation. Now I'm not there to endorse
Apple, so let's be very clear here.
But yeah, I I kind of wonder about these weird technologies
with translation, if it's even useful.
So I, I'm very leery of it and I'm like, OK, we, I think, I
think that is a challenge because then I know in the
(29:11):
Vietnamese community, there's a lot of Vietnamese propaganda
radio that a lot of our elders listen to.
And especially in Orange County where it's a, it's still a
strong Republican bashed in there.
And, and for us millennial Gen. Z folks, it's, it's a struggle
to have those conversations because like we have seen Asian
(29:33):
folks, including my community members were part of January 6th
and that was very galling. That was very jarring.
And like, do you have conversations with your family
on the work that you do and whathas their response been like?
Oh, yeah, totally. I mean, I would say like broadly
(29:54):
speaking, I, I feel like all, all members of my family voted
for Trump even in 2024. But but how I play organizing in
general is it's, I would frame it as a difference first between
organizing and activism, right? Where organizing we're actually
(30:15):
trying to build relationships tochange people's minds.
Activism is like, you know, justlike talking out people about
this issue and then this issue and then this issue.
So within my outside, within my own experiences, it's like,
yeah, I, I think I've had the most success talking to my
(30:36):
family first about not not even politics, but just building the
relationship. Like I used to have many more
arguments with my family about politics.
We had like 10 paragraph long e-mail threads, you know,
periods of no communication. So I've kind of seen that and
what it looks like. But I think just first after
having an actual relationship built on some commonality of
(30:59):
like, oh, we're going to visit our family together.
I think that opens the doors more for actual political
conversation when it comes up. So that that's my only take on
this right now is because I'm still trying to figure this out
myself. But it's like build the
relationship first over other things and slowly talk about the
politics instead of trying to pick the path of like most
resistance, which is like going going in like guns blazing with
(31:21):
like, here are the 20 reasons why Trump is bad.
You know, Epstein list, you nameit.
Yeah, yeah. What made Trump appealing to
your family? I'm.
I think this is a question that I ask a lot of my Asian
colleagues on this. Oh yeah, I'd say like top 21 is
(31:44):
like he's one is that I think they think he's very anti CCP,
but he's very like anti communist.
You know that that's a whole thing.
And I think the other one might be the economy.
Just thinking about my own parents, it's one of those two,
anti communist and pro economy. That is a, that is like an
(32:08):
interesting commonality that I see.
I see this within our communities because the word
communism is like a red flag forthe South Vietnamese elders.
And I feel like there's something about the Republican
Party that's so good at weaponizing their trauma and
like, you know, and beating thatlike, like and being that on the
(32:31):
drum, I think that that's something that's like, how do we
counter that? I, I had this interview with
Michelle Kim the other day aboutthis.
And she said, like, I had to switch from going from the moral
policing to like, let me learn about your story.
Like, why are you scared? How do I try to meet halfway?
You know, even though it has like the both side isms to it,
(32:53):
but like how do I try to find a way to connect to something that
really hits them hard? Like what brings out that
passion and where is that comingfrom?
I think that's certainly something I think about, you
know, like how do we navigate these very difficult
conversations? And I mean, I know that you
don't have the solution to it yet.
(33:13):
Like, we all are still, in a way, searching for that.
What does it look like? Some can be pulled out of it,
you know, But others, you know, are unfortunately entrenched in
very harmful beliefs and practices.
So yeah, I know I'm kind of likerambling on on this part, but
this is something that has always probably kept me up on
(33:34):
many nights. Yeah, I mean, I agree with many
of the things you said. My own take on this is that I, I
mean, my own take is time will tell.
And with regards to communism specifically, we're hearing that
(33:54):
a lot in New York City, right? Donald Trump is attacking Zoran.
I'm Donnie all day now for beinga communist, right?
Socialist doesn't have the same ring to it anymore.
And now he's going communist, right?
He's fully trying to lean into the Red Scare.
But a lot of people really like Zoran.
My sister, who definitely voted for Trump also really likes
Zoran as like a charismatic figure, whether his, you know,
(34:14):
policies around like, you know, the, the, the universal pre-K,
like the, the free Group, One free grocery store in each
borough, the free buses, whetherthat actually, you know, if it
works, I think that's a huge plus for quote, UN quote,
communism or socialism or anything in that direction,
right? But to me, like, I, I kind of
dropped that point of discussionfor right now because we kind of
(34:38):
know where it leads. Like we pulled the historical
references of like Mao or like Vietnam or whatever, right?
And then we go into a historicalthing of like it happened in the
past, it might happen now. I don't think any of that
matters at this point. It's like time will tell what
the current implementation of communism or socialism looks
like. And that'll probably start with
the election of Zoran. Yeah, right now we are dealing
(35:01):
with ice race that are happening, being in Chicago that
is already starting to become a hot center along with Portland
and LA. And I think this is something to
really pay very close attention to because people are getting
snatched off the streets that including U.S. citizens and and
and it's becoming let's just be called for what it is.
(35:25):
I mean, the Trump administrationhas gone very rogue and saw VICE
agents and it's been terrorizinga lot of communities.
I'm curious to see what you havenoticed from Crown Heights and
how have the community been organizing to to resist against
(35:45):
the ICE raids that are happening.
Yeah, I will say I have limited knowledge of this.
I know many groups who have done, you know, know Your rights
workshops. My own take on this right now is
I'm not sure how effective thoseare because I don't think any
ICE agent is actually respectinganyone's rights.
You know, it's like, do you havea warrant?
And they're like this, that's a fantasy now.
(36:07):
And then they like break open your door with one of those like
battering ram things. So I see a lot of know your
rights workshops. I see a lot of people proposing
ideas of, you know, rapid response networks, but I don't
know how much actual capacity there is for that.
I'm, that's what I see right now.
Most of what's happening in New York is always happening at 26
(36:30):
Federal Plaza, like the courthouse, You know, you just
have like 15 ICE agents lined upoutside the courthouse where
like someone's scheduled to havetheir, like, appointment for
that day for like legal paperwork or something.
And then after they come out of the courthouse, they just arrest
them. So I'm like, that seems like the
predominant form of arrest happening in New York City.
(36:50):
But yeah, with again within Crown Heights, there's, I don't
if there is one that I'm not plugged into it for like a solid
wrapper response neighborhood level thing.
There's a lot of proposals for it, but I don't think there's
anything like super solid right now.
As far as the work that you're currently doing, what are you
looking to spend more time on? And also in terms of the
(37:13):
relationship that you have with your neighbors, your community
members, what ideas are you currently working on and what
practices are you hoping to put together?
Totally. Yeah, IA lot of it's with like
two different Crown Heights groups.
One's focused at a tenant level and then the other one's focused
at like a block level. So you know, in New York City we
(37:34):
have like block parties occasionally and like so like
block associations in general. So I really want to spend like
the next few years continuing tohopefully live in the same
building and then also having more relationships at a block
level because I think that's like the level that I've never
heard of really built out before.
(37:57):
But I think it could be really powerful, whether we talk about
like elections or a larger neighborhood activity or
political, whatever you call it to 1st, just build those
relationships beyond a building onto multiple buildings in a
row, onto like multiple blocks in a row.
What are the things that make you proud to be a New York City
(38:17):
residents, especially Crown Heights?
What makes it very special to you as a resident?
Yeah. I think Crown Heights has one of
the strongest community organizing scenes.
Like when I think about groups in the neighborhood, I can think
about like four or five versus other areas where I'm like, I
think there's one group here. So I think in terms of the
(38:39):
amount of organizing here, that's very cool.
In terms of, I think, I think that's what I'd, I think that's
the only thing I'd really say interms of like organizing with
New York City in general. You know, it's like, oh, New
York City has a really, you know, high density, a lot of
people here. That's always nice for finding
new people to get involved with groups.
(39:01):
And for better, for worse, you know, we have the eyes of the
Trump administration all the time.
You know, like, I guess kind of similar to California, but it
seems like even even my family in Arkansas, you know, my sister
who was in like, Tennessee, everyone is paying attention to
New York City news and it's policies and it's politics, you
(39:23):
know, So it, it feels kind of cool to have the spotlight.
But also is, yeah, I guess we'llsee what happens, what steps.
Can people take to be involved and what opportunities are there
if you're not able to like, for example, use your body as a
defense against police and ice? Like what other ways of
(39:44):
supporting community organizing work?
What can it look like for someone that's brand new to
this? Yeah, I think that really how
people can get involved really depends on what they care about
and what options are available. So, you know, something I see a
lot of New York City is a lot of, you know, jail support,
(40:06):
mutual aid and food distribution, right those.
Those don't require you to, you know, be chanting at anything,
but like, it's a very routine way of like, OK, we have a lot
of people getting released everyday.
We're here to provide them support in this forum.
Broadly speaking for your question, I would just say, you
know, think about what you care about, find what groups there
(40:29):
are and then have them sort of breakdown what are like the
smaller actions you can do and then what are the larger ones
and go from there. I wanted to ask you this
question like what led you and Jerry to sunset politically
Asian? What did you learn from that
podcast experience? And, and are you still in
contact with Jerry? Cuz I, I have not ever been in
(40:52):
conversation with Jerry, which Jerry, Hey, if you're listening.
So I'm very curious about that cuz it was one of my favorite
shows. I felt like at that time, there
were not many progressive leaning Asian American podcasts
at that time, and there weren't very many to begin with.
And I felt like your content really raised a lot of
(41:13):
visibility and awareness of whatis going on in New York City,
but also in the current landscape.
So yeah, I was very curious about that.
Yeah, I mean, I will say like there's a lot of political Tik
Tokers now, a lot of even a lot like Asian political Tik Tokers
in in a podcast form. Sure, maybe there's not that
many, but I don't, I don't know if it's as needed.
(41:33):
I mean, for for us, it was just mainly the time thing.
Like it was like pretty hard to record and then edit and just
pump out weekly episodes. And I think we've been doing it
for two years with like maybe like moderate traction, but not
like high velocity. So yeah, that's, that was about
it. I'm like, it's funny because
(41:53):
like, I just know a lot of podcasts who are coming and
going even right now, but I feellike it's just, you know,
eventually people stop. Yeah, You know, it's, it's kind
of interesting because I when I left two years ago, I thought I
was really done. I was completely over it by that
point. I'm like, I accomplished
everything I need to do in thosefour years, which four years in
(42:14):
podcasting where I was like 40 years in dog years basically.
And and I felt the need to come back, I think after staying away
for a while and having to deal with, you know, a lot of
personal issues. And once I gave myself the time
to actually live life, I think this is something that we all
have to remember is to live our lives, have a little bit of joy
(42:35):
in our lives because that actually starts to ignite the
creativity, the the motivation, the passion.
And that's what's needed in community organizing work.
And that's something that I feelis very essential to this, not
just self-care, but also collective care.
How do we take care of each other?
And I think coming back to this landscape, it's like, I don't
(42:56):
really know any podcasters, to be honest with you.
It's like it's a whole differentlandscape now.
And I think about like the Joe Rogan's, the Andrew Tates of the
world, the late Charlie Kirk, who made their podcast platforms
like the dominant force for younger Gen.
Z folks. I know that you do a lot of work
(43:17):
on TikTok. I mean, I think TikTok, right?
And I know it for Instagram for sure, like educating folks about
community organizing. What do you hope to to do with
your platform or what are you looking to educate followers and
people in the social media sphere?
(43:39):
Yeah. So when I make the videos that I
make, I always just keep people in mind that I know.
Like these are people who may beorganizing within like a
community organizing group already, or some are like
friends who I would say are, arelike leftist politics minded,
but they don't really do that much in real life.
(44:00):
So my, my goal is to always makevideos for them and on, on a
much broader picture, I guess the thesis in my head is just
there are so many people who areso smart and they have potential
and are so talented who are alsosort of like on, on the scale of
(44:20):
left to right, like definitely more left in terms of politics
who just don't really do that much right now.
And it's kind of like understanding what are the
barriers and like what are the real life things that are
preventing them from taking the first steps and making video
content that sort of gets rid ofthose first steps makes them
unnecessary, you know, try to make try to make the path
(44:42):
easier. Yeah, because I think these days
it's very important for, it's important for other content
creators, especially of marginalized communities, to
share their stories to create platforms because we're seeing
so many right wing fringe voiceslike dominate the airwaves, but
(45:03):
also in the social media landscape.
And I've always feel like so important to find ways to
support and bring stories of what community members are
experiencing, but also what folks are actually doing the
work. Because I, I've, you know, for
me, I've always been a believer that when we show the work
that's being done, it creates hope, it creates opportunities.
(45:27):
And, and I think what you're doing is very essential.
And I'm, I'm a big fan of the work that you've been doing
because it helps to educate and informs folks who are not
knowledgeable about what community organizing looks like.
What does it take to build community?
What does it take to stand up for your rights or for other
(45:47):
people's rights? And what does it mean to, you
know, to continue this work in asafe, in a safe manner?
So I really appreciate what you've been, you know, sharing.
And I was wondering where peoplecan find you and where people
can, you know, follow your next move.
Oh, totally, yes. So my Instagram is Aaron Flarin
(46:10):
under score. So that's a ARONFLARIN under
score just because someone took the original.
And yeah, from there you can find all the other accounts.
There's like YouTube, there's TikTok.
People will know. Yeah, absolutely.
And I wonder if there's any lasting comments or any lasting
points that you would like to share to it could be in any
(46:31):
capacity with the work that you're doing or just in general
or what advice would you even have for folks in, you know,
right now in this current landscape?
Totally. It's always hard for me to give
general advice because I in, in my head of what pops up is like
(46:51):
all these different people that I meet and talk to.
And it's like, oh, there's such a wide scale.
Maybe the maybe I'll just leave with something about, you know,
oh, I know I'll leave with the, this whole saying, I've been
putting a lot on Instagram, which is to do more politics
together over time. So it's like, first, we want
(47:13):
people to do more, right? But we also really, I really
want them to do things together.I always say like if if you're
trying to find one thing that will make everything else
easier, it's finding a friend todo things with together.
So I just say do more politics together.
And then over time, it's not going to be fixed in like a week
or a month or even 3 months or five months or six months.
(47:34):
It might take a year. So just really have that long
term mentality, you know, just.
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