Holler at Your Dreams with Judi Holler

Send us a text

In this episode, bestselling author and powerhouse pro speaker, Judi Holler, shares her journey back to authenticity after nearly abandoning her true calling for a “more marketable” path.

She opens up about the sleepless nights and creative paralysis that came from losing touch with her work.  And how she reclaimed her power in creating an “unbook” to help others find their way back to themselves.

Judi walks us through her four-stage framework for self-discovery: pain, peace, presence, and paradigm, seeing discomfort as a doorway to growth. She also explores self-leadership, handling rejection, and creating safe spaces for authentic self-expression.

And as a bonus—you’ll even hear a short jam session at the end of the episode!

Grab a copy of her newest book - HOLLER AT YOUR DREAMS - available everywhere!

Follow Judi on Instagram!

Support the show

More Cameo - Word up!

Sign up for The Weekly Reset Newsletter!
https://www.cameoelysebraun.com
https://www.instagram.com/cameoelysebraun
https://www.buzzsprout.com/2083952/support

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello and welcome to the Cameo Show.
I'm your host, cameo, and weare, of course, joined by my
husband and co-host, greg Braun,and I know he has a banger dad
joke for us today, but we willcircle back to you, greg.
I'm too excited to introduceour guest today.
I don't even know where tobegin.
It's a huge stack.
She is a keynote speaker, sheis an improv-trained powerhouse,

(00:24):
she is a bestselling author,she is a creative mind and she
is behind the Holliverse.
Welcome to the show, judyHoller Holler.

Speaker 3 (00:36):
I feel like we have to start with a holler.
You know how good it feels tosay that and do that, because
for so long I've been wanting to, but it's been lying dormant
and I think we can unpack thattoday Like this, this like
corporate masking, this, likeconditioning, these sort of
limiting beliefs that hold usback from really like being and

(00:59):
doing and living and becomingand creating like everything we
want in this world.

Speaker 1 (01:02):
So we can unpack that , but holla let's go I have been
so excited to say welcome tothe show, judy Holler, for like
I can't even tell you how long.
So this is such an honor.
And you know I forgot tomention that you're not just a
bestselling author.
You are getting ready torelease your second book, so
we're going to get there.
I don't want to cut greg out,though.

(01:23):
Greg, I know this dad joke youare so excited to share because
I'm so excited screams, judyscreams judy, judy.

Speaker 2 (01:30):
So what do santa's elves listen to while they're
working?

Speaker 1 (01:36):
oh you, you better tell me, it's holiday music rap
music oh my god, but holidaymusic, come get out of here,
both of you.

Speaker 3 (01:48):
My brain was kind of thinking that is so good, he's
going to say straight up holidaymusic rap, even better so that
is a mic drop, so now you havetwo jokes in one.

Speaker 1 (01:58):
Like that's so good.

Speaker 3 (02:00):
Amazing job.

Speaker 1 (02:01):
You're both hired, hired comedy.

Speaker 3 (02:03):
I'm just kidding.
Hired comedy writers.
Somebody call us.
Call us, we got you.

Speaker 1 (02:06):
Improv at its finest.
So, judy, let's jump right in,though, to the new book Holler
at your Dreams DangerouslyInspiring Ideas for the Wildly
Dope Soul.
We've got to start there.
Where did the title come from?

Speaker 3 (02:21):
Okay, I feel like we have to tell this story first,
because it's it almost didn'thappen, like this book almost
did not become what she is, um,and it was almost titled
something else, and I think it'sa powerful story for us to
start with and a powerful placefor us to go.
Uh, because for me it was.

(02:44):
You know, we all have those,we've all got them, good and bad
, the life altering moments, theflashpoints, the bathroom floor
moment, the rock bottom moment,the you know the moment where
we, we sort of are, where we hadto like face, face self, and I
know y'all get it right.
So, this was one of many for meand it's a recent one and it
happened in March.

(03:05):
So what happens when youachieve a level of success?
There's something no one tellsyou.
The money grabbers start comingaround.
So you got these people thatsee you, they want a piece of
the action and they got thething.

(03:25):
Baby, if you just write me thecheck, if you just hire me, if
you just scale or build thefunnel or get the system or go
with this process, this is whateverybody else is doing.
And if you really want to getto this level, if you really
want to be on that stage, if youreally want to be on this list,
if you really want to make thatmillion dollars, follow me,
hold my hand, take, I'll takeyou with me right now.
This doesn't mean that we don'tbring people in from the

(03:47):
outside.
Of course, right, we're goingto have to get help and support
along the way, but maybe, maybewe never do that, to the
detriment of of our own powerand our own, our own algorithm.
So I get to a place, moneygrabbers start coming around and
I get really confused.
I stopped listening to myself.
Start coming around and I getreally confused.
I stopped listening to myself,I, to be frank, lose myself

(04:14):
deeply, soulfully, and I sort ofbegin this journey of
self-discovery back home tomyself.
More on that in a minute.
But it was like a three, fouryear process where I started
slipping away from myself.
Money grabbers come in.
I start getting confused, but Ihave this deep pull and this
deep intuitive hit to wake upthis verb I was born with, like
I was born with the last nameHoller and, like you know, they

(04:35):
call it the download.
You know, for all my spiritualbabies out there, you get that
like download right, that likehit.
And it happened with my firstbook, f, my homeboy.
Like I knew the minute, like itwas like, it was like from
somewhere bigger than me, right,and I was like that's it,
that's the vibe, that's themovement, and I knew so
intuitively and I was like greenat that time.
I didn't know anything, I hadno following.

(04:56):
All the bliss of the bliss ofbeing a beginner, right, you
just don't know any better.
You just go and you move and youdo so.
The same thing was happeningwith with holler and, most
specifically, this concept ofhollering at dreams, to really
help people figure out how tocome back home to themselves so

(05:17):
they can build a life and careerthat feels like theirs.
So I launched this concept tothe world holler your dreams.
We go live on the website andthe socials and all the things,
and it cut.
This was like two and a halfyears ago and it kind of falls
flat like low key, like cricketsa little bit, and the speaker
bureau world, like in the speak.

(05:38):
I'm a pro speaker, that's how Imake my living and you know,
spend a lot of time givingcorporate keynotes.
I come from corporate America.
I've got some corporate PTSDand that's another thing to
write down in the margins.
We could talk about that too.
But uh so, so, uh, so, so I, Istart, I start making phone
calls to these, these thirdparties, these people outside of

(06:00):
me bureaus, managers, agentsand I'm like what's cool?
It's not working, it's notworking, it's not working.
Oh my God, what do I do?
And I'm collecting all thisadvice, I'm asking for all of
these opinions, and one woman,out of critique, not care, says
to me.
She goes oh, holler at yourdreams.
She goes that's cute, Cutefirst of all.
And then she goes how's thatworking out for you?
Are you busy Now?

(06:22):
At the time I wasn't busy, asbusy as I wanted to be.
I had sort of hit a bit of abrick wall, Cause I don't think
people knew, cause I like Ididn't know what it was becoming
.
So the market didn't understandhow to.
So, instead of being patientand letting it breathe and be
and become, I panicked.
I didn't hire that woman.
I ended up bringing on thisbrand manager to fix me, and she

(06:50):
looks at me and she goes I gotit.
Here's what we're going to do.
No one's going to everunderstand, holler, at your
dreams, no one's going to get it.
People in corporate Americadon't need people doing that.
We need results, we need action, we need ROI right.
We need EBITDA, we need bottomline.
So you're going to be the.
You're going to be the be theverb girl.
That's what it's going to be.
We're going to rebrand, we'regoing to fix you and you're

(07:11):
going to be the be the verb girl.
Now, okay, cute, I love the pun.
Fun inside I'm like okay, Iguess I'm going to be the be the
verb girl.
So we rebrand the website, weretitle the keynote, we changed
the cover of the book and thetitle of the book, you know, and
everything goes forward into bethe verb.
However, I'm not sleeping atnight.

(07:32):
I'm irritable, I'm sick.
I'm not making decisions, I'mfighting with my husband, I'm
snapping at my best friends.
I feel like I'm slowly dyinginside.
I am having no fun on stage asa keynote speaker.
I've lost like a year and ahalf worth of tape.
I look at that girl on stage.
I'm like who's that?
Who dat, who dat?

(07:53):
Can't use it.
I'm a shell of myself and Icould not most acutely, coming
back to April of this year, makea decision on the cover of this
book, my forthcoming bookcalled Holler at your dreams.
I couldn't make a decision onthe cover and I'm pissing a
bunch of people off and I amwasting a lot of time, money and
energy.
I'm having no fun.
I'm snapping.
All these things are happeningand push comes to shove.

(08:15):
It's like, okay, this book iscoming out on nine, nine, which
I wanted that date.
Nine, nine, 2025 at 2025,together, that's the number nine
, nine, nine, nine the divinenumber of endings and new
beginnings.
I needed that date soulfully.
It was so intuitive it had ithad to come out on that date.
So I had to make a decision,but I couldn't.
So push comes to shove.

(08:35):
I've got 48 hours to to call itand I've got these three covers
three be the verb covers I'mlooking at and I wake up in the
middle of night.
I don't know why we always wakeup in the middle of the night,
at like three in the morning,like the witching hour, super
weird, anyway.
So I get up in the middle ofthe night and I'm like, oh my
God, I cannot make a decision onthis cover.

(08:57):
Not because of the cover, notbecause of the design, but
because I am literally paintingmy life's canvas with somebody
else's brush here, because bethe verb ain't mine.
I'm having no fun on stagebecause it ain't mine.
I cannot make a decision on thecover of this book because it
ain't mine.
And what I've now come to knowto be true and what I'm telling

(09:17):
on keynote stages this is thekey note and the big aha moment
If something doesn't belong toyou, it will not stay with you
and you will not want to staywith it.
So maybe for you it's not abrand or a title or a book or a
catch phrase.
Maybe for you it is a versionof success that no longer fits.

(09:37):
Maybe for you it is, you know,like.
This is why there's liketension in a friendship that
used to feel like home, likeyou'll.
You'll stand in your closet andyou've got like a closet full
of clothes and you're like Ihave nothing to wear.
You know, this is why you havea big title and a ton of
followers and a shitload ofmoney and you literally feel
like you're dying inside right.
It's because it's probablyyou're out of alignment and

(10:00):
something you're doing isn'tactually yours, because you
don't want to stay and itdoesn't want to stay with you.
So I called my power back, I letgo of that whole team.
I called my graphic designer intears because she's ride or die
.
She's on, she's in the hall ofhers and I go gee, I go, gee,
we're, we're, we're, we'reblowing it up and we're going to
, we're going to redesign thisbook cover.
And here's I gave her the, the,the vision I had for the cover.

(10:22):
She brought it to life and Isaid baby, we're building how to
holler at your dreams.
We're taking our.
She's crying, I'm crying, she'slike we're like you know, she's
like I'm going, you're going,let's go, baby, right.
So so I got rid of all of thatand I said fuck it, baby's about

(10:46):
being realer.
And what does that look likefor you?
And if I am not doing that formyself?
Like?
I feel like that's the divineassignment, that's what I've
been put on this planet andthat's why I've been given that
verb to help people use it andbe it and become it, and that's
the essence of holler at yourdreams.
But she almost didn't happen.

(11:07):
So I knew that I wanted to writea book that was an unbook.
I knew that attention spans andjust the way my brain was
healing.
I went on this journey ofself-discovery and I put it all
into this book.
And so I divided the book upinto sections and we've got
these four sections pain, peaceand we can break this down.
But the cliff notes is pain,peace, presence, paradigm.
We have to move through all ofit.
And then inside of the book are365 original ideas poetry, art,

(11:28):
personal development, prose,just all kinds of dope stuff to
help you come back home toyourself.
So that's the story of the book.
It almost, it was almostsupposed to be called Be the
Verb.
And how sad, like I, oh, I justget goosebumps thinking about
how close I came to to missing adream, to to missing, you know,

(11:50):
the manifestation of what Ibelieve, I believe my life's
calling is, you know that's along story to answer.

Speaker 2 (11:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (11:58):
Holler, here's the deal.
That is why I love you so much,that is why I have almost clung
to everything that you havesaid over the years and,
honestly, now that you sharethat story and thank you for
sharing it I can kind ofremember that time and remember
when you kind of went radiosilent and when you lost that
edge and that energy that youbring and it's back, it's been

(12:20):
back.
But the fact that you keep itso real is what draws me
personally into you.
Because in a world full of fake, especially on social media, in
a world full of how can I belike the next person?
How do I curate my feed to looklike what somebody else is
doing?
That's having success.
It makes me nauseous and you'rea breath of fresh air.

(12:42):
And that explanation menauseous and you're a breath of
fresh air.
And that explanation completelyseals the deal of why you
referenced this book as anOracle and a freaking Oracle.
So people can feel brave andbold and inspired to tune in and
tap in to their own creativenature that we filter out of
ourselves.

(13:03):
We completely erase it.

Speaker 3 (13:04):
Yes, and what you may need today is different, what
you're going to need tomorrowand what like we're all in
different spaces and places.
So maybe today, you know I lovethis, I don't know.
I have this thing I do in myoffice with all my books.
I have my most beloved booksaround me here in my office and
if I'm creatively tapped,uninspired, sad, depressed, dark

(13:26):
, stuck, needing to have a toughconversation, like I'm just,
like I'm very spiritual.
I love to play games with theuniverse.
I think this is a reallybeautiful way to move through
life.
It is the improv mindset.
We are open, we are windows,not walls.
We are victors and victresses,not victims, right?
So I love being open.
I'm like, ooh, let me catch asign.
Like I'm stuck, let me go grab.

(13:46):
So I go to my books and I justsay a little prayer, ask for
what I need.
I pull one off the shelf, openit up and I let where my eyes
land be the answer, be the maybe, content, inspiration, steal,
this idea, by the way, be what Ineed to write about, talk about
, be about, do about that day.
And so I'm like, ooh, what if Imade that book Like so, and

(14:08):
we'll do it at the end of theshow.
We're going to pull from theoracle of holler at your dreams
before we go just to see fullcircle, maybe what we need to
hear today and maybe what's forus.
But I wanted to write somethingthat's got a heartbeat, that's
got an energy.
It's not meant to be on a book.
It's meant to be on anightstand, a coffee table.
It's meant to be like acreative companion, right?
It's meant to be like soul food, so like you need to know what

(14:31):
to do, what to say, what to be,what the answer is.
You could ask it a question andget the answer, and I thought
that was a really fun way to doa book.
And so each page, so it's likebite size, you can read it front

(14:51):
to back.
But yes, and to all of that,because we're always going to be
like this, this concept of ofliving as a self-expressionist
and hollering at our dreams andbeing fully expressed, which is
where the future is going, iswhat it's all about, and I
wanted to sort of figure out howto provide some sort of
long-term solution to thelifelong pursuit of like growth
and change and reinvention,because maybe today you were
like I am present, I know who Iam, let's go.
But then all of a sudden shitpops off and you're like, oh,

(15:12):
I'm in pain.

Speaker 2 (15:13):
And.

Speaker 3 (15:13):
I need to go back and take care of that so that I can
come back home.
It all works together, and thenyou'll never shift into the
next dimension paradigm, you'llnever transcend and get even
wilder and weirder.
If you don't know who the fuckyou are, sometimes we lose.
So it's this journey of likeooh, where am I today?
To your point, cameo, what do Ineed today?

(15:35):
And ooh, could this be a funtool and a creative companion to
help me think differently abouttoday?

Speaker 1 (15:42):
Love it.
Can we break down the sections?
I love where you're going withthat with regard to what you
need being what you need whenyou open it and how your book
has the different sections ofpain, peace and what kind of led
you to put them in that layoutand in that order?

Speaker 3 (16:01):
And I wish I could tell you I had some sort of like
really beautiful, strategic,deep dive with a PhD in writing
and we decided that we're goingto break.
No, it was like yo, like forreal it was.
It came to me in the first timeI'm saying this out loud, cause
I'm starting to do press forthe book it came to me in a

(16:22):
dream.
It really these four sectionscame to me in a dream.
I was, I've been, I knew Ineeded, I had so much my gosh.
I've been writing my whole life.
I'm a poet, even to be able tosay I'm a motivational poet.
I've always been a writer andI've been hiding all of that
because I thought, oh my God,like people are gonna be, like
what a joke.
You do poetry, spoken work.
Come on, another poet, likeit's just so weird, right.

(16:43):
And so I kind of hit it and butI had all these ideas and these
little sound bites of of, of,of self-discovery, and things
I've I've sort of done and havelearned to be true and and now
know to be true and have sort ofwalked through to like bring me
back home to self and help meshift into new paradigms.
But I didn't know how toorganize it.
But I knew I needed to organizeit somehow, cause it wasn't

(17:03):
going to be like chapter one andI knew it had to be like
picture, Like I knew there hadto be art and vibrant and color
and I wanted it to be a littlebit like my brain, right.
And so, yeah, I was like, well,what have I walked through over
the last four years?
Started with dark ass shit.
Right, had to, had to, had togo through some pain and really
look at some stuff I didn't wantto that I had been ignoring.

(17:25):
So the pain we start with thepain.
You got to feel it, you got tofeel it.
You got to feel it and then the, the, the, the, the peace
becomes, you know.
So now we heal it.
You got to heal it.
So first you got to feel it andthen you got to heal it.
You start to find this likedope little thing we call inner
peace.
That I always thought was likesome sort of joke.
And then you're like, oh yo,maybe this is flow.

(17:47):
Yo, is this surrender?
Is this what people mean?
Like I don't have to hold on sotight, and like, look at, like,
even if you're just listeningright now, like.
If you want to know whatsurrender feels like, someone
once told me, put your hand in afist and squeeze it really hard
for 30 seconds, 30 seconds.
And if you got nails, it hurts.
It hurts, it hurts, right.
Just squeeze really hard,really hard.
Now your fingers are aching,your palms are sweaty.
It's kind of like uncomfortableat this point, like we are

(18:09):
holding on.
We are holding on baby.
It's hard, it's hard.
And now in about two seconds,just hang on two more seconds.
Now let it go.
Open your hands.
That's surrender.
You feel like a differenttingling.
Look at, things can land inyour hands.
Someone could actually grab yourhand and bring you somewhere.
I have goosebumps as.
I say this like it just it's.
You're still in action, You'restill in movement, there's still

(18:32):
energy, but now we're open,we're Ooh, who could help?
What do I need?
What could what, what couldcome in here?
What can I now feel?
Because I'm not so closed upand guarded, right, and so
that's so.
Peace is about learning thebeauty of surrender and letting
go and like feeling it, and thenwe go into presence.
We've moved through the pain,we've cleaned up our shit, we

(18:55):
are starting to feel into ourfeelings, instead of numbing our
feelings and drowning ourfeelings and bullshitting our
feelings away.
Now we can go like, okay, well,who am I?
Who the fuck am I?
Because everybody's telling meto keep it real.
What is real for me?
Well, I think I might've foundout because I've been on this
little journey for myself, andmaybe all that pain is power.
So let's, let's go even biggerinto that.

(19:17):
We start to become now we be it.
So if it's feel it right, healit.
Presence is be it, and thenparadigm is transcendent,
because once you understand whoyou are, you become unstoppable,
because you are an original,you're an OG in the world,
you're doing things to your ownrhythm and you're not so

(19:37):
bothered by everybody else.
You're kind of on your owndivine assignment and you just
sort of get yourself to whereyou want to go faster and
weirder and cooler and more you,which is always going to make
you an original.
And so transcendence becomesthe evolution of this.
But sometimes when we'retranscending, it's going to hurt
because we're going to get tonew levels and then there's new
devils.
So now we go back and revisitpain, so we can feel it and come

(19:59):
back home to ourselves and goeven bigger Right.
So it becomes this like processof like, it's like they all
work together.
That's the essence of the foursections.

Speaker 2 (20:11):
And wow.

Speaker 1 (20:12):
I love that you said that it came to you in a dream.
I love Greg's face right now.
He's like I feel like you'respeaking to his heart.

Speaker 2 (20:20):
Yeah, you really are.
I mean, it's just likeeverything you're saying.

Speaker 1 (20:23):
I'm like yep, we're having this moment around here,
like we want to get a littleweird with it.
We want to get a little wildwith it.
We are musicians and artists atour core, and so that's what we
want to spend our time doing,and I feel like building a
business and writing a book anddoing all the things that I've
done and this isn't about me,but just to relate is that I've
kind of shrunk into what shouldI be doing?

(20:45):
And I wrote a book aboutgetting rid of the shoulds.
So why am I sitting here in theshoulds and trying to figure
out what I need to do next,instead of coming home to myself
and saying what do you love todo?
You love to perform, you loveto play music with your husband,
and your book came to you in adream.
How Serendipitous and the titleis perfect and the fact that you

(21:05):
can pick up that book and, atany time, no matter what you're
feeling, read something, seesomething, feel something that's
going to feel completelydifferent than it may have the
first time you picked it up andlooked through it.
It isn't chapter one, chaptertwo.
It's where am I and what do Ineed is absolutely the cycle of
dope that you bring to the worldLike.

(21:26):
I just can't even wait to getmy hands on this book, because
it's going to change people'slives in a way that I'm not even
sure, I'm not even sure peoplerecognize is available to them.
Do you know what I mean?
So, like when you had thismoment of like fuck that I'm not
doing that anymore, like I'mnot going to do what everybody
else wants me to do it's not me.
Where did you find the courageto like stand up for yourself?

(21:50):
Where did you find the abilityto say sorry, everybody, you're
all fired.
We're going in a differentdirection, you know, because
people can't often do that.
We get stuck.

Speaker 3 (22:03):
Thank God for the pain, because the tolerance for
pain is a really powerful skillto build.
And I'm not talking like pain,like ouch Well sometimes, ouch
right, but a tolerance for painlike other people's opinions and
self-doubt, and and, andprocrastination, and
perfectionism and impostersyndrome and offending someone

(22:25):
and am I, you know, overthinkingand self-sabotage all these
ways fear shows up, like beingable to look at that, see it,
acknowledge it and put it in abox and say, nope, we're moving
anyway.
It's a powerful skill to build,like you gotta.
You have to have a tolerancefor pain.

(22:45):
Like rejection Awesome, okay,we're in the lab.
We're in the lab.
This one hurt.
I get rejected all the time.
Right, good, good, you know, my, my girlfriend, has a daughter
in college right now and we justliterally had this will go out
of my newsletter on Friday Herdaughter did not get into the
sorority she wanted.
Well, she got cut.
They're in rushing right now.
She got cut, and so she sendsme a screenshot of the text with

(23:09):
her and her daughter and she'slike see, mom, this is why I
don't I, this is why I don'thave friends and this is why
I've never had a boyfriend.
I don't do rejection, I don'tdo rejection.
And I said, oh baby, like itbroke my heart.
First of all because we've allbeen there, like when you're 18,
you know you don't know shitabout shit.

(23:30):
Well, first of all, most adults,none of us know shit about shit
, and anybody who tells you theyknow shit about shit is lying.

Speaker 2 (23:38):
Like I have some ideas take it take it or leave
it.

Speaker 3 (23:42):
Nobody knows shit about shit.
Let's be clear at the end of theday, nobody knows shit about
shit.
Let's be clear.
There is no.
Yeah, you know, beware falsegods.
But um, so I wanted to like hugher, of course, first of all
because I feel the pain.
It's like acknowledge the pain,and I told her, I said, I said
like if building a tolerance forrejection is going to be a
critical skill for that girl tounderstand and to learn it quick

(24:03):
, because, if she wants to, itis going to be nearly impossible
to be joyful and successful andhappy in life without it, you
know what I mean.
So good, be rejected, fail, getit wrong.
Look, cringe, embarrassyourself.
So I guess my answer to yourquestion is you know, I'm
staring down the barrel of 50,although that makes it sound
really dark, I'm not scared toget older.

(24:25):
I feel grateful for that.
But I also think with age comesa confidence and a wisdom and a
low tolerance for bullshit.
And, most importantly, I wastired of my own and I just said
now's the time.
Now's the time and I had enoughwisdom and enough street cred
and enough evidence in myself.

(24:45):
Like I'm, like I have built allthis.
Why would I ever allow anyone?
No, and to be frank, it waslike leaping, like.
I mean, I knew I had a net.
The net was evidence, the factthat I'm living, proof I know I
can do hard things and live totalk about it and I have a
tolerance for pain and okay, Ican always go 10 bar Like.
And okay, I can always go 10bar Like I'm not going to be
homeless, like I will figurethis out if this like really

(25:09):
doesn't work.
The regret I could not let theregret be louder than the
realness I was feeling in myheart, you know, and so I think
it was like the perfect storm alittle bit Age, wisdom, time and
a tolerance for pain.
I have, like I just reallyreset my relationship with
rejection and failure and cringeand upsetting people.

(25:32):
And I think I have to go evenharder there, because corporate
Barbie had been playing it alittle too safe for too long for
fear.
And I think if you're foreveryone, you're for no one.
And I think one of the bigconversations I'm really
interested in right now is this,this notion of inclusive
inclusivity, because I don'tknow if everything should be for
everyone.

Speaker 1 (25:51):
Sure, it just makes everything vanilla right.
I mean it just completelyflatlines everybody right.

Speaker 3 (25:58):
What is that world Like, is it?
I don't, I don't want everyoneto be for me, but if you are for
me and I am for you, come on inand you are going to feel the
most included you've ever felt.
But I think we're living andthis is where I think the
creative revolution and sort ofthe creatives on the front line,
helping people feel more safein their self-expression.
That's really what I'm here todo create safety of

(26:19):
self-expression inside ofcorporate structures and sort of
outside, so people feel safe toself-express, of corporate
structures and sort of outside,so people feel safe to
self-express.
We can create environments ofself-expression and we can feel
courageous enough in ourselvesto be fully expressed and then,
of course, keep theself-expression itself safe.
But I think we're afraid to dothat because it's a scary world
out there.
People are sort of being likefrom the cancel culture to the

(26:44):
public stoning of one personmaking a mistake and oh my God,
you know, let's, let's talkabout, I mean, the, the whole
astronomer thing that the guywho got caught on the camera.
I was so upset about.
I physically was sick for likea week.
Um, because last time I checkedat who, I've made a bazillion

(27:04):
mistakes, I have fucked up andit doesn't mean anything was
right or wrong, but the publicstoning, the way we take people
down, the way we destroy overone fucking like.
Okay, I'd love to see you inyour little glass house, like we
are, like on camera every like.
It's like you feel like noone's safe, you know.
And now the AI is making peoplesay things and I just felt so

(27:28):
the intuitive and the lover thatI am and the creative that I am
, decision aside and mistakeaside and bad choices side I
don't feel like that's right andI feel like, whether it's
something like that, or acreative who says the wrong word
, or post something that youknow, a word in their book, or
it's just like we live in thisworld where people are afraid of

(27:50):
their own shadow and now wesilence so many beautiful people
because it can be, the mistakescan be so public and so scary,
and so you know.
Again, I'm not trying to sayyou know I, you know, I think,
but I also think we don't knowpeople's stories, and shame on
us, for, for I don't know, Ijust the world is very fast to
like hate.

Speaker 1 (28:12):
I agree, I actually said the same thing to Greg when
all of that was going on.
I'm like I'm so disappointed inhumanity in this moment because
you can't even like just I'mnot saying that what was done
was okay, but I'm.
What I am saying is it's notanybody's fucking business,
Leave everybody alone.
Yeah, so we got put up on thething.

(28:32):
Well, who's the person that wasvideoing that in the first
place?
So I feel you, because I thinkyou you're right.
We're creating this environmentwhere people tiptoe around,
they sand off their edges,they're afraid to be a little
weird with it, because somebodyis going to call them out for
being weird.
And I don't want to be likeeverybody else.
And thank you for not beinglike everybody else and for
standing by what you know to betrue to self.

(28:54):
And thank you for is itself-expression?
Sunday.

Speaker 3 (28:58):
Yes, it's a slow movement.
We're building, like, you know.
You just got to let it ride,but I have felt this deep
calling to like, create us.
I'm like it has to be on aSunday, you know, a soul fill.
It's a soulful day.
It's a day, even if you film itearlier in the week and you
schedule it to go live on Sunday, however, but it's like, how do
I create a movement around?
Cause I needed theaccountability of like.
Am I showing up enough?

(29:19):
Me to camera?
Me authentically, me sharing mypoetry, me sharing my art, me
sharing on stage, whatever it isI want to do that week?
Am I playing your music,whatever it is like?
Maybe that's your, your game,you guys play.
If there's something you want topull out of the closet, what if
we could create a sacred day,like a self-expression Sunday,

(29:39):
where we make a publiccommitment to sharing our art?
The art is you, remember, Ibelieve you're the art.
You don't need a frame to be amasterpiece.
You're the art.
So, whatever that is, maybeit's what you're reading, what
you're watching, what you'reeating, what your favorite thing
of the week was a conferenceyou attended.
Maybe it's your actual art.
It's you spitting bars, it'syou sharing your poetry, it's

(30:00):
you playing acoustic.
It's you in the kitchen cookingyour favorite recipe.
It just helps us.
It's like my fear experimentsfrom.
Fear is my homeboy Can't be.
Oh, it's like.
You know, I really believe ifyou're not experimenting with
your fear every day on purpose,you'll never stay brave.
You've got to build the muscle,same with creativity, same with
self-expression, same withconfidence, right, like, if you
want to build all that, you haveto go where you have none on

(30:21):
purpose.
So I kind of built the movementselfishly, so I had like an
anchor every week to be likeokay, shit, and also to be able
to not to feel safe, to know Igot people watching and they
know why I'm doing it, sothey'll jump in and cheer and
then I can do the same for them.
So if someone's scared to likepost the thing that they sold on
their shop, like, I'm going tohit them up with a comment and,
better yet, share that creatoron my stories because I've got a

(30:42):
nice following.
You know not that it's aboutthat, but you know like, oh my
God, maybe I could, they couldopen a door and I, somebody
could see their work and itchanges something for them.
You know.
So that that's the essence ofthe movement to sort of go along
with it, with the ideas in thebook that you'll never get in
this life what you're not braveenough to holler at.
So if you want something, goget it Right and just start

(31:02):
playing with it Like you don'thave to the path.
It will reveal itself.
You kind of let the art tellyou.
I mean, you guys are musicianswhich I'd love to hear a little
bit more about.
I know this isn't my podcast,but we might need to unpack that
because I'm like geeking outover it.
But I think you guys areartists and musicians.
You know, and you know, you,you probably, if you sit down
and write any original work, Imean, I'll sit down with an idea

(31:23):
for a poem or a concept or oror a story in verse and it'll
begin one way and becomesomething totally different.
And so you kind of got to likesame with homeboy.
Like when I put my first bookout, I was like, oh, here's how

(31:49):
it's good, this is what's good.
And the community, the movement, it told me it was like nope,
this is what it's going to be.
So I think we, you know, atsome point the artist, the
creator.
You are the art.
We have to come out from behindthe screen.
The painter has to get out frombehind the canvas and we have
to ship, go, launch, send, dowhatever, sing, rap, like, ask
for the business.
At some point we have to like,go.
And I feel like I'm right andI'm in the going I've been
building for five years thisholiverse, this world and
self-expression.
Sunday is one of the ways I'mgoing and, of course, this book
launch coming up will be a biggo Um and and the leading up to

(32:12):
it revealing sort of like theworld that lives in my head,
wrapped inside the holiverse.
But at some time, at some point,I had to get out from behind
the screen, like I'm sittinghere creating this world in my
head.
For five years I've been, fourand a half years I've been
sitting in this office likecreep, like little, like what
are the?
Like?
I feel like a little witchdoctor, but a good witch doctor.
Like, oh, I've got all theseideas.
If they only knew.
And at some point like, okay,well, what if something happens?

(32:32):
I remember telling my husbandlike a year ago I was like it
goes down with me.
Here's the passwords, here'sthe like the manuscript was done
, I just needed.
So I got into all my stuff sowe knew if anything happened.
I'm like call this person, youget them to publish it, use that
money you make on my death andgo get this book out into the
world.
Baby, like you know, the hollerat your dreams was coming.

(32:54):
But you see, at some point wehave to go.
Yeah, at some point I had toleave the, the safety net of
this office.
I had to like let and you knowwhat.
There's going to be people thatdon't like it and don't like me
and call me a fake and a fraudand a buh, buh, buh and a phony.
Because I like the M dash andit's you know people are going
to.
You know.
I mean, like, when did the Mdash become?

(33:16):
Like, why did the AI take our Mdash?
I have loved the.
I don't know if you guys knowwhat an M dash is.

Speaker 1 (33:20):
I love an em dash, and now I find myself trying to
not use it because I'm like, Idon't need anyone to judge me
based on my em dash usage.

Speaker 2 (33:27):
What's em dash?

Speaker 3 (33:28):
It's a dope like really long, like bar, a
punctuation bar in writing.
It's awesome, it's likeindicates a pause and it's
cooler and more aestheticallyand as an artist like it's a
little more aestheticallypleasing than a dot, dot, dot,
dot dot, but it kind of is likea dot dot, it's like a pause,
but it's a beautiful dot dot dot.
Well, now the ai has taken itand everybody's saying and it is

(33:51):
true, you can kind of tell,look for emojis, you can.
You can kind of start to seewhat's, but is there personality
?
But anyway, the ai they'resaying you know, content is ai
generated when you see an m dash.
And there's so many of uswriters like oh fuck you like
another way to silence and scarethe creatives from sharing
their art.
Fuck off, because if I changedeverything to a dot dot dot or

(34:13):
removed them, they're stillgonna hate yeah, that's right so
guess what?
I'm keeping my m dash.
I love it, and so if anybodyelse is down for an m dash,
holler at your girl.
But anyway, these are the wayswe're silenced, right?
The fear, the like, the like.
You're going to be canceled.
You're a fake, you're a fraud.
You don't deserve all thatbullshit that keeps us from

(34:34):
really building a life thatfeels like ours, a career that
really feels like ours, and Ithink that's the.
That's the dreamiest, dreamiestof dreams for me.
Not a million followers, not agazillion dollars, just am I
doing work I love the way I want, with dope-ass humans that rock
.

Speaker 2 (34:56):
This is how I frame it and everything you're saying.
I'm just like it's hitting meright here.
I mean, I love the vibe, but Ialways ask myself and my friends
and people when I'm havingthese deeper conversations which
I tend to have a lot of,because I'm a weirdo and I love
to go deep.

Speaker 3 (35:12):
No, because you're amazing how you doing, how you
been.

Speaker 2 (35:15):
Let's go deep.

Speaker 3 (35:16):
You know, like this small talk is just a way for you
, same same.
So keep going on your thought,but I feel you on a soul level,
yeah yeah.
So rare and so unique today.
I love people that roll deep.

Speaker 2 (35:27):
Well, and I guess the whole spirit of this is I ask
myself this all the time and Iask others this all the time
what would you do if you didn'thave to make money?
Because in our society and ourlikes and followers and success
and all these people that aredoing it, and they're so much
bigger than me?
But, at the end of the day,what would you do if you woke up

(35:47):
and you had all the resourcesyou need to survive and there
was no social media to comparemyself to?
What would I want to do?
Would it be birdwatching?
Would it be grabbing my guitar?
I know the answer for me andit's taken.
I'm 47 and I've been whittlingaway at this puzzle.
It and I've been whittling awayat this puzzle it's making
music.
My soul comes alive when I makemusic Because I go back to my

(36:09):
14-year-old self.
I'd get done with my school, mysports, I would run home to my
four-track recorder, grab myIbanez guitar and just play
Metallica riffs until my dadwould come in and be like dude,
you got to go to bed and it'sjust like that childlike energy.
And our son's doing it rightnow.
He plays music all day andcomes home and it's just like no

(36:30):
one forced this on him, he justhas seen us have, we have.
I have two drum sets in ourbedroom.

Speaker 3 (36:37):
That's how cool this room is.
No drums are my dream.
I'm like Muppet, like theanimal, for Muppets was like the
best.
Muppet on the planet.

Speaker 2 (36:45):
Yeah, I love that when he played with Buddy Rich
and they just, oh my God, justiconic.
I've always loved the drums.

Speaker 3 (36:51):
My uncle Jimmy was a drummer.
He drummed with the Prince, ohno way yeah.
Minnesota boy like artist yeahNice.
So but interesting.
So what are we doing with that?
Greg, you're only 47.

Speaker 2 (37:06):
Yeah, I mean I reached a very high level at 24.
I played at Madison SquareGarden.
We opened for Shakira.

Speaker 1 (37:15):
You played, okay, so you're an artist.

Speaker 2 (37:17):
You're in it.
I started playing in a bar whenI was 12 with my mom.
I played in Bandsphere, butthen at 24, completely broke.
I was over it and that's when Imet Cameo, when we began our
journey and kids and you got tomake money.
And here we are today and we'vegot a mortgage company that's

(37:39):
thriving in our community and wedo the podcast.
She just released a book.
But then we're also.
We have this extra time becauseour kids are at an age where
they're kind of doing their ownthing.
We find ourselves with thesebig blocks of time, like, well,
what do we want to do?
And I think this is where thewheels come off in a marriage.
We've been, you know, thank Godwe've been working together on
stuff, or else we'd look at eachother and be like I don't even

(38:01):
know who you are anymore, youknow, yeah, this is so real by
the way we're like yeah, I knowI feel like you're sitting here
when we're having a coffee inthe kitchen.

Speaker 3 (38:09):
I feel the same, like I'm fascinated by this.
Yes, it's so real.

Speaker 1 (38:14):
So Greg is back to himself, though, which I think
is so beautiful, and kind ofright back into the cycle of
what we were talking about, ofwhat we were talking about, like
the pain, the peace, thepresence, the paradigm.

Speaker 3 (38:24):
The pain, the peace.

Speaker 2 (38:25):
I had to go through the pain.
I had to go through the painand I had to.
Literally I went to therapy.
I went to EMDR therapy and Ithought it was for something
else, but she was like you gotto deal with these childhood
things that are you're stuck.

Speaker 3 (38:38):
You're stuck Because it'll come for you.

Speaker 2 (38:41):
It'll come for you.
And so when you break your fourthings down, it's like I am
living.
I know exactly what you'resaying.
I had to walk away from mycorporate job that I was very
comfortable with oh yeah,comfortable and then we moved to
Florida and we worked for alittle bank.
We worked for a bank and wewere comfortable working for a
bank.
And then someone was like, hey,if you jump out on your own and

(39:04):
do your own thing, you're losingso much here by not doing this
on your own and you can havecomplete control.
Sorry, my cord's flyingeverywhere, but it takes a lot
of looking fear in the face andbeing like, uh-uh, I know the
truth.
And that's because you educateyourself and you go deep and you
ask yourself daily what would Ido if I didn't have to make

(39:24):
money?
I mean like that question rightthere, and it just forces you
down this path of uncomfortabletruths that you're just like.
I know this is right for me,but I'm scared to not do it kind
of thing.
But you just got to keep going,you know.
And people like you are thespirit guide to show me like
there's light at the end of thattunnel and I'm going to keep
going for it, you know so yeah,you're.

Speaker 3 (39:45):
You're the light in the tunnel.

Speaker 2 (39:46):
First of all, uh yeah , you're the light in the tunnel
I have chills too.

Speaker 3 (39:50):
I've had.
I've had them multiple um timeson this podcast, which is
really cool.
Do you know, not everybody getschills.
There's a name for it, it'scalled freeze on.

Speaker 2 (39:58):
I never knew that no.

Speaker 1 (40:00):
So I wrote about this in my newsletter.

Speaker 3 (40:01):
I can't even imagine not getting chills.
Yeah, some people do not getthem, and it's a very.
If you get chills, it's adivine appointment, like it's
something to be celebrated,right.
And especially when you getthem in multiple spaces, pay
attention to where you are whenyou get those.
And I'm not talking about burr,I'm cold, I'm talking about,
like, source spirit, right.

(40:21):
So, yeah, I love that.
That means we're right wherewe're supposed to be.
And then number two what you'retalking about, greg and I think
this is a really importantthing to understand about
self-expression and any creativeact and it's required for
hollering at dreams.
You're talking aboutself-leadership, because no
one's coming to do it for youright, you hear this all the

(40:42):
time?
Ain't nobody coming, all thisstuff, but do we really live
into that?
And so this is why pain andpeace like this is an important
part, because who's going to sitdown at like?
You have to lead self.
You cannot be a victim.
Oh the economy, oh thepresident, oh the mean bullies
on like, oh the okay it's,there's going to be things that

(41:05):
suck in life and they're gonnabe things you're not happy with,
and the economy will go up anddown and elections will come and
go and they're gonna be thingsthat are great, but we, like we
can't control any of that.
I am like I cannot handle.
If you were to ask me, the onething that pisses me off more is
a victim.
Give me a victim and I justcannot.

(41:26):
And this doesn't mean I'm nottrying to be an asshole over
here, but also like listen,there are people that go through
deep trauma.
I understand and I have knownthose people.
I know those people.
My best friend lost herdaughter.
I mean, come on.

Speaker 2 (41:44):
Can you?

Speaker 3 (41:44):
imagine a pain worse.
One of the most joyful peopleI've ever met went on to have
two kids.
My husband lost my husband'smom.
My mother-in-law, who's nowpassed, lost her oldest son and
she was never the same.
She was horrible, a nightmare,really difficult to be around,
sedentary, overweight.
Oh, poor is me.
A victim just could not get herlife back together.

(42:04):
And those two boys suffer theconsequences of that because, oh
, mom's mad again we have toslip cards.
Oh, mom, oh, walked on in.
Could never make mom happy.
My best friend, jodi, loses heroldest daughter, goes on to have
two boys.
But she tells me the story ofyou know.
So when people are victims, Ithink of stories like this and
I'm like, if my girl Jodi canget up and do that, I'm going to
be okay.
But she said that there was amoment, three months after

(42:26):
Olivia had died, where she wason the floor of her closet and
she, you know grief.
If you've ever lost anyone.
Grief is waves, waves.
You move through it and therewill be a time where you feel
like your breath has taken away.
If you've ever lost, you knowit's like it hits you and you
just don't expect it.
So she's like I'm three monthsin and of course I'm in the pain
.
She goes.
But it was like I'm in mycloset just getting ready for
work she was a teacher at thetime and she's like, oh, wave it

(42:48):
.
And I'm on the floor and Ican't breathe and you know I'm
bawling.
She goes, adam walks into thecloset and he two, he goes.

(43:08):
However, we have a choice tomake here.
We have to make the decision toeither move on and be the
people who lost a daughter, orwe can choose to be olivia's
parents and to move on as the,as the people that had had a
daughter, not the people wholost one.
I want you to come there withme, let's go there, and we're
going to do it one day at a time, one hour time.
So they, they she's like, wehave, we have a daughter.
We are not the people who losta daughter.
We have a daughter and we livefor her, and so so when I talk

(43:30):
about being a victim, I'm nottrying to be an asshole, but I'm
also trying to be firm anddirect, because you know, we're
all going to have stuff and, mygod, joe, their lives.
I mean, you know as much as shedoesn't want, I mean of course
she would do anything to haveOlivia back, but she's also kind
of like, would I?
Her life is so like it was.
You know, she's a woman offaith and she has such a deep

(43:53):
faith and a sense of somethingbigger and a support system and
whatever we need to call on, wecall on that army of earth
angels.
We get what we need to getthrough the trauma.
But she's like I probablywouldn't have hurt my youngest
isaac.
We would have stopped it too.
She goes, you know we would.
We would not have him.
She goes, I would not have therelationship I now have with my
husband.
She goes, we would not be herein indiana.

(44:13):
She's like I think of all thethings and she's in her.
She is in every look at she.
Olivia's here right now in thisstory because there's someone
like she lives on, you see.
So she's in this story.
Someone's going to hear thisright now and go oh shit,
they're going to pull.
They're like this is what Ineeded right here.
Oh, olivia, thank you, she'shere, and what it gives is the
gift that keeps giving insteadof the thing that holds us back,
and that's how I look at beinga victim.

(44:36):
You know you mean.
So if you're spitting shit, youget more shit and if you're
spitting truth and you'respitting healing and you're
spitting pain and I'm holding onand I'm trying to heal.
But I'm trying to focus to getto feeling as good as fast as I
can as possible.
But I'm not talking toxicpositivity here, but we're

(44:57):
reaching for the better feeling,Even if, if anger is better
than depression, I'm still goingto be angry instead of
depressed, because it's stillbetter than being depressed.
I'm just like inching up thatscale you know every day to get
out of the lows and into thehigh.
That is because you'll only getlike the frequency you're on,
Like you'll only get like ifyou're shit and you think

(45:17):
everything's shit.
Well, I bet you could lookaround your life and there's a
lot of things that are shit.

Speaker 1 (45:28):
Sorry for making this about shit and sandwich, and
maybe this is the shittiestpodcast interview you've ever
had.
But no, I love how real you areand how fresh because it's so
true and I feel the same way andI often feel, you know, kind of
back to that, speaking yourtruth, like I have to bite my
tongue a little bit when I'maround people who behave that
way, because I don't I'm nottrying to hurt anybody's
feelings but at the same time Idon't have a tolerance for that.

(45:51):
I think our kids would agreethey're like hey, mom, you know
let us feel our feelings, andI'm all for that.
But also you're the one thatgets to decide how you move
forward and how you view theworld.
And if you view it as you'rebeing stuck, you're being it's
being done to you.
That's how you're going to feelabout everything you don't have
a tolerance for the bullshitPeople ask me.

Speaker 3 (46:10):
you know that they always come around with the
restaurant and they're like andmy husband's always like, really
again.
And I'm like I can't helpmyself.
It's so good, um, so theservers will come around and be
like all right, welcome to therestaurant everybody.
Okay, can we get your uh, bythe way, before I get into the
menu, are there, are there anyallergies around the table?

(46:31):
And I'm like uh, everybody'slike no, no allergies.
I'm like, oh yeah, I've got one.
Really.
I'm like uh, just um cilantroand bullshit, Is that?

Speaker 2 (46:50):
is that okay?
So I always pair it withcilantro.

Speaker 3 (46:51):
So I'm like, oh yeah, me, uh, cilantro and bullshit.
But it's true, you have notolerance for that.
You know what I mean.
So it's like fill it, figureout what real is for you and go
heal.
This isn't toxic.
Positivity and a lot is goingto be hard.
None of us get out of this painfree.
It's coming for all of us,right, but we don't have to be
victims to it.
I just think it's fun to livelife in a way that is a little

(47:13):
gamified, Like I'm always kindof looking for.
You know, I'm always asking forthe things, and I think that's
I live with my head on a swivel,and I think that's for the joy,
for the good and not the bad,and I think that's how abundance
finds you.
And for four years you know allthis healing.
I was not doing that.
This is one of my favoritethings about human design is one
of the things that reveals ishow you know when you're out of

(47:35):
alignment and how it actuallyphysically shows up in your life
, and for me it was bitterness.

Speaker 2 (47:40):
It is bitterness.

Speaker 3 (47:41):
So when I am bitter and bitter for me over the last
four years, I say 2025 has beenpretty good for me, but like,
2021, 2022, 2023, 2024, really,really, 2024, 2024 was bad.
It was like, well, easy for her, or it must be nice, or
jealousy, or envy, or that's nothow.

(48:04):
No, it must be nice, she, she,she's got a rich husband, or oh,
that's.
You know all this bullshit thatI was never like that.
You know what I mean.
Like or oh, it must be nice.
I mean she's an, or her dad wasan oil, of course that you know
.
Whatever it is like, you knowyou're surrounded by all this
wealth up here in Arizona.
Right, there's people up here.
It's like crazy, right.
And so, instead of being likeold Judy, like, oh, show me
everything.

(48:24):
Yes, right, my mommy used toclean houses and I'd walk into
these houses and I'd be like Iwant to front porch with rocking
chairs, like they have threeChristmas trees, like it was
like aspirational for me.
I got to a place where I waslike fuck them and fuck you and
fuck that and fuck money.
You know what I mean.
And like no wonder I'm broke,no wonder I'm dark, no wonder
I'm struggling, no wonder nobooks are coming in, no wonder

(48:46):
because I'm literally blockingall of it with my bullshit.
Yes, my own, it was.
I'm like, oh my god, it waslike in the light.
So, whether it's whatevertherapy, do, like, whatever that
work is you're doing, you doingyourself.
It's why it's so important,because I needed so, I, because
I needed someone else to reflectto me outside of me what it was

(49:08):
going to take for me toself-lead my way out of it,
because my husband couldn't fixthat, my bestie ain't going to
fix that, like, no, like I gotto fix that and I did, and it
set me free.
And then so, and it's not easy,and it's a journey of
constantly revisiting it, andnow I know when I I'll feel like
I'll feel a bitternesssomething will happen.

(49:29):
I'll be there.
It is awareness.
What's going on here?
What's going on?
Something's off?
That's right.
It's like it's.
It's like a radar.
I'm like Ooh yeah.
I can stop it and I coursecorrect it, right.

Speaker 2 (49:39):
I'm.
I'm so with you on this and Iactually gamify.
I love that, my thoughts.
So, even though I'm not sayingthe negative thing or the toxic
thing or the envious thing, if Icatch myself thinking it.
I question that because I'vecome to realize, like I'm not
the thoughts, I'm the thinkingmachine and I control these

(50:00):
thoughts that come out of thatthinking machine all day long,
not when I'm sleeping, that'sjust whatever happens, but like
during the day, when I'm awake Iown my thoughts and when I'm
with people I own my speech.
I mean, that's stoic wisdomthat I've like you know, but but
it's so powerful and it's likeit's, if you can just get
control of your tongue and yoururges that are just like you're

(50:22):
so many of your problems.
Go away, you know.
And it's like that's what Ilove about stoicism is there's
no fluff, no BS, it's justhere's the shit that you need to
do if you want to have a happylife.
And it's up to you to do it.
You know, and it's like, okay,cool, and it's up to you, it's
up to you Self-leadershipownership right.
Oh.

Speaker 3 (50:40):
Leadership ownership.
Right, oh same.
That's my rub and that's howthings happen.
Yeah, I love that.
It's so good.

Speaker 2 (50:47):
And the pain is the path you know Like when you're
feeling the pain from somethingyou're like.
That's what needs fixed in mylife.
I need like in your situation,like you felt the pain and you
felt so destroyed by it and itwas like if you would have
ignored that and pushed throughit, it still wouldn't matter.

Speaker 3 (51:06):
I'll read you what I write as I open the section and
then before we have to do anoracle reading.
But here's what I write aboutthe pain as we go into it.
So there's this little cluethat sets up pain right.
So I say pain is the thresholdbetween what was and what could
be.
It is the turbulence thatshakes us loose from old ways of
thinking, being and believing.
And yet we often resist it,treating discomfort like a stop

(51:30):
sign instead of a portal.
But pain is intelligence.
It carries messages, directions, breakthroughs.
It does not come to break you,it comes to wake you.
So in this section we meet ourpain head on, not as an enemy
but as an invitation.
We learn to decode its wisdom,honor its lessons and move
through it with faith instead offear.
We stop outsourcing our powerto what the world expects and

(51:54):
start trusting our own map,because this is where the shift
begins.

Speaker 2 (51:59):
So yeah, it has to be there.
It's a portal.

Speaker 3 (52:03):
It's a portal and it could take you, make you or
break you, you decide.

Speaker 2 (52:09):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (52:10):
Yeah, you decide.
I often think thatself-awareness can be a curse if
left unchecked, because I getin my own head Put that on a
quote card, no doubt.
I get in my head about likewell, to your point, when you
were younger, look at this, it'sso great.
And then something shifted.
Well, sometimes it's theawareness of other things around

(52:31):
you that causes you to thinkdifferently.
So I get in my head sometimes,but without awareness, you're
also not paying attention to thelittle messages that come in
through the universe, the thingsthat tell you this doesn't feel
right in my, in my body, likeI'm literally the way that I
feel, my responses and reactions.
It'll tell you that's right Ifyou're paying attention.
If you're paying attention, yep.

Speaker 3 (52:54):
Yep.
Oh my God, I want to berespectful of your time so.
I can sit here for like sixhours and keep riffing with you
so good On stop.
I need to get to Tampa.
You guys are first on my listwhen I get to Tampa.
Oh my God, nice, yeah, yeah,yeah, we would love it
Absolutely.

Speaker 1 (53:10):
It's anytime.
You are absolutely welcome hereanytime, and there is plenty of
beautiful things to do here,and we can riff and play some
music too.
Oh my God, oh my God, I knowyou are a singer, I know you are
a performer in there.

Speaker 3 (53:23):
I wish I was, if I could.
Oh my God, if I could sing I'dbe Queen Herbie.
Do you guys know who QueenHerbie is?

Speaker 1 (53:28):
She just played here not too long ago.
Like last year, she's on mylist.

Speaker 3 (53:33):
I'm like I will not turn 50.
I have to go see her live.
I missed most of the shows lastyear.
She is a huge I meanmotivational rap actress, really
truly weird, wild, witchyrapper, artist, singer, creative
energy being.
She's just so cool.
But her music opened me up tothe genre of motivational

(53:53):
hip-hop and motivational rap andthings like Kristen Teeb and
Tony Jones.
I mean there's just so manyrappers and poets and writers
out there that have just reallythere's this movement of like,
because hip hop, if you reallythink about what you listen as
much as I am here, I mean it isI came, I come from the nineties
, okay so, and I born and raisedin St Louis and we you know we,

(54:16):
I mean music, you know we Imean anybody who grew up in the
eighties and nineties, I meanthe birth of hip hop, right, I
mean anybody who grew up in the80s and 90s, I mean the birth of
hip hop, right.
And I grew up in an edgyneighborhood and it was very
diverse and so I was listeningto stuff I should not have been
listening to at a very young ageand anyway.
So I've always loved hip hop.
But if you really think aboutthe vibration of that music and

(54:36):
some of the things that they'resaying.
I had to be careful with itbecause words are wands, yeah,
and what we take in it's still a, for music is the.
You know, albert Einstein saysmusic frequency will be the
medicine of the future, and so Inow do a lot of old school hip
hop instrumental beats.
I write to a lot of that stuffbecause I pull some of the words

(54:57):
out, because I don't want tolike, give me that, give me some
of this stuff is like a littlelittle wild and you know, do I
really do I?
You know, bitches ain't nothingbut hoes and sluts.
Hold on, is that?

Speaker 2 (55:16):
is that really the message here?

Speaker 3 (55:17):
I love you, snoop and I love you, snoop, but maybe
I'll just roll on theinstrumental of that, but anyway
, so there's this whole.
So when I found likeinspirational hip hop, um, oh my
God.
And so I have this wholeSpotify playlist you should pull
it cameo for the show notes theholy flow playlist, so it's got
all kinds of stuff I meanthere's some Eminem on there, um
, but it's like lose yourself,you know what I mean.
Um, there's some prints, baby,I'm a star.
So there's some like a littlecollection of things that live
in my brain, this whole genre oflike motivational, like rap and

(55:38):
hip hop, and it changed my life.
I'm like this exists, and sothat frequency was one of the
tools like therapy I used toheal myself when I lost her over
the last couple of years, andso queen, um, I gotta get to see
her in a live show, but she's,yeah, she's one of my, my muses.
If I could really sing, oh, I,I, I cannot sing, but I envy

(56:02):
anyone who can in a good way.

Speaker 1 (56:04):
Well, I love your playlist.
I follow your playlist becauseit's very fun, and I need to
listen to it some more as I'mlike getting ready, because it
sets the tone.
What you invite in is how youshow up in the world, and that
sets the stage.
I got to ask you some rapidfire questions because I know
that these answers are going tobe bomb, so we'll start with

(56:29):
some basic stuff Like what's inyour coffee.

Speaker 3 (56:30):
You're drinking a coffee right now.
What's your coffee?
So this is an iced coffee andit is an espresso pod with some
skim milk, actual dairy.
There's dairy in here, you guys, with milk, and then cinnamon
and um, one, one half a packetof Stevia, and then I just shake
it and then put it in there.
But if I'm drinking my morningcoffee, I have to.
My morning coffee has a scoopof protein powder in it, cause

(56:50):
your girl's got to get thatprotein.

Speaker 1 (56:52):
Add a girl.
Add a girl A little scoop ofthe protein.
Perfect Childhood scent.

Speaker 3 (56:58):
Yes, you got to put it in first Childhood scent sent
electric by Debbie Gibson Comeon.

Speaker 1 (57:10):
Go on.
Debbie Gibson is like mychildhood spirit animal.
I used to set up the camera andturn her on with a huge speaker
with a microphone and play itlike I thought I was Debbie
Gibson, totally.

Speaker 3 (57:16):
Well, she followed me on Instagram and I fell out.
I was like panic she followedme last year.
It was like around the holidayseason last year and I opened my
thing and I was like wow.
And then I shared it and I waslike, oh my God, my teenage self
would be dead right now, andactually low key.
My 48 year old self was like,also really dead, but you just

(57:39):
never know how things are goingto come around.
But yeah anyway, electric youth, that's amazing.

Speaker 1 (57:42):
And you know what.
Back to what Greg said and whatyou just said, if you're 12 or
14 year old, self would bescreaming about what's happening
.

Speaker 3 (57:48):
You're doing it right Doing that shit you better do
it at a rotation.

Speaker 1 (57:52):
That's right.
Amen.
Morning person or night owl.

Speaker 3 (57:57):
More of a night owl, yeah, but I love mornings.

Speaker 2 (58:01):
I'm the same way.

Speaker 1 (58:02):
I don't want to go to sleep and then I'm like ready
for the morning to wake up, asI'm going to sleep.
I just, I just, yeah, me too, Ididn't have to sleep.

Speaker 3 (58:11):
I'm probably like not an early morning person, but I
do enjoy mornings, uh, but I'mprobably, I write in the
mornings, I'm probably the mostcreative and most awake in the
mornings, but then things willhit at night too.
You know I have pretty activedreams and stuff, so it just
kind of depends on flow.
But can I say both.

Speaker 1 (58:27):
Both is fine, both is valid.
Go to karaoke song.
You back to that?
Oh my God.

Speaker 3 (58:33):
Caribbean queen by Billy ocean.

Speaker 2 (58:37):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (58:37):
Love it why?
Why that one Cause it is just avibe.

Speaker 3 (58:42):
My mom cleaned houses and my mom and dad loved R&B
and so when my mom would cleanour house or any other house,
she would always have her littleboom box and be putting on the
like R&B, so like Lionel Richieand Billy Ocean and like Luther
Vandross and like all that stuff.
So Caribbean Queen was one ofmy mom's favorites and it just

(59:03):
became a thing and it's like noone sees it coming too.
It's like people are like boom.
You know just the beginning ofit.
And then it's like woo, she's soawesome, she touched by me and
painted on jeans.
I mean, come on.
I mean it's like an all headsturn, cause she was the queen.

Speaker 2 (59:26):
She had these.
What did she have?

Speaker 3 (59:28):
Oh electric eyes that you can't ignore Come on, let's
go.
I didn't see this, this, youknow, this passion that burned
you like never before.
See what I'm saying.
So.

Speaker 2 (59:41):
I can add the little ad-libs in there.
You guys.

Speaker 1 (59:46):
Yes, my God, I cannot get yeah.
So.

Speaker 2 (59:49):
Oh my God.

Speaker 1 (59:50):
The three of us together and Judy.

Speaker 3 (59:52):
I'm sure your husband is right there.
We got to get into thelaboratory.
We'll get into a littlecreative lab one day.

Speaker 1 (59:59):
That was amazing.
All right, last one, last one,last one, easy one.
Back to music.
I was asked this recently on apodcast and I blinked because
I'm like I don't know, but Ithink about it a lot because
we're very into UFC.
But a walkout song you have awalkout song, probably yes.

Speaker 3 (01:00:16):
I do and it depends on the mood of like the audience
.
Okay, I want to know yours Like,like my soul Um so I would say
cause, everybody wants to play ahollaback girl and that's not
really the vibe.
Like cause, it's like it.
You know I love Gwen Stefani,but ever that's no.
People don't know what else todo.

(01:00:37):
So I mean, if I'm walking outto anything, it's probably some
old school like a, an old schoollike run DMC.
That's always a favorite for me.
Um, sometimes it's instrumental,like instrumental.
Snoop and Dre, like nextepisode's always a good one.
Uh, lately it has been vitaminsby Queen Herbie, um, like like
the main refrain of that one.

(01:00:58):
And um, yeah, I mean, if Icould hit a beastie boys moment,
that's always fun.
Nelly, I'm from st louis so Ihave a lot, but like nelly is
always a fun one.
It's just hard to find naughtylike non-naughty outtakes.
You know so kind of dependingon where I'm at, I have like a
little bag of tricks, but Ithink I always feel really good
when I come on to like.

(01:01:19):
Well, lately I've been feelingreally good coming out to
vibrant thing by Q-Tip.

Speaker 2 (01:01:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:01:24):
That's a great beat, Isn't that a good bop?
And you just feel good and Iwas like we're talking about
being vibrant and vibrant.
So that's been one that I'mlike really into and it's like
real good girl, pretty littleyou know, and that whole beat in
the and so I'm backstage outhere.
Come on, I'm like's fun.
So that's been my vibe lately.
Sorry, that's a long answer tothe question.

Speaker 1 (01:01:43):
20 songs but uh, well , that's okay.
I may as well have asked youwhat's your favorite song ever,
and you know that's like thedumbest question ever.

Speaker 3 (01:01:50):
Too hard, yeah, depending on what mood I'm in.
Right, that's right well.

Speaker 1 (01:01:55):
Yeah, judy, you have been such a bright light in my
life over the last five years.
Your indirect support byshowing up in my feed, even
behind the scenes, when maybeyou weren't feeling it, it still
felt like you did to me.
Thank you, I receive it.
It kept me going on days when Iwasn't sure.

(01:02:16):
You've taught me how to embracefear and find my own voice and
to accept my pain as a gift toshare with others so that they
can accept their own.
And I can't thank you enoughfor what you give to the world,
to the universe, to theholoverse, and for being here
today, because this is anabsolute honor.
I have chills all over my body.

(01:02:38):
If you could see them they'relike my goodness, and I just, I
am just absolutely blown away bythe fact that you're here.
The nerves subsided.
I was nervous when we started Iget.

Speaker 3 (01:02:49):
I couldn't tell you guys are great.

Speaker 2 (01:02:51):
I mean honestly you might go down in history.

Speaker 3 (01:02:53):
This didn't even feel like we were on a podcast
episode.
This was just so in flow and soin sync and just the two are
really spectacular and I'm cameocongrats on the book.
And just you know, you two ashumans, as artists, as parents,
as people, as partners, like youknow, keep going through it for
all of us, because your wisdom,your stories, your realness on

(01:03:15):
the other side of it is what theworld needs now more than ever.
So I'm just thank you forsharing me with your audience.

Speaker 1 (01:03:20):
Yes, thanks for blazing the trail, and please
share where we can find moreabout you, the best place to
find the most Judy, and alsoorder the book.

Speaker 3 (01:03:30):
So the book is available now.
You can buy it wherever youlike buying books Amazon, barnes
, noble.
You can go to judyhollercom tolearn more.
There's, of course, a landingpage for the book itself
holleratyourdreamscom.
Find me on Instagram.
But wherever you buy books,type in holler at your dreams
and you'll find the book I love.
And we're wrapping the podcastat 11, 11, which is pretty cool.

Speaker 1 (01:03:48):
Perfect.
Will you close this down withan?
With a page.

Speaker 3 (01:03:52):
I'll close down with the page.
Let's see where we land.
Perfect, okay, we're going togive it up, we're going to take
it and we I opened to a piece.
Um, there's a piece on eachpage.
One is a concept called bigbutts.
But I'm going to read the poem,the piece on the page.
So here's, here's what we'vegot.
It's a piece I wrote, called ifonly, if only regret never

(01:04:16):
lingered, second chances lastedforever and there was no such
thing as a last dance.
If only days stretched longer,dogs lived as long as we do and
ice cream didn't melt so fast.
If only hate was erased, angerfaded like echoes and love was
all that remained.
If only youth was infinite,aging was effortless and we had

(01:04:40):
more time.
That's in the peace section.
As you start to make peace withwhere you're at.
You know, if only, if onlyThings we can change, things we
can't change, sort of aremembering when I wrote that of
you know, be grateful for whatyou have.
And there's things that suck.
And God, I wish this ice creamwasn't going so fast.
And my dog I don't want to losemy dog, but God there could be,

(01:05:01):
there could be things that areso much worse.
But also, if only we had moretime, which is a message to
seize the moment and and and doit now which is the essence of
hollering at your dreams.

Speaker 1 (01:05:13):
Love it.
Thank you so much, judy.
We have new episodes everyWednesday.
Please tune back into the cameoshow.
You can find us on Instagram orat my website.
Cameo Elise brawncom until.