February 19, 2025 • 47 mins
Ever questioned whether alcohol is truly enhancing your life—or just holding you back? Daniel Patterson, an educator turned entrepreneur, confronted this dilemma head-on after a pivotal moment on New Year's Day 2015. Now, with a decade of sobriety behind him, Daniel merges his personal journey with his professional expertise to offer insights into mental health, navigating social dynamics without alcohol, and prioritizing self-care without guilt.
As the founder of Patterson Perspective Inc., Daniel's work has provided strategic solutions for schools, organizations, teenagers, young adults, and parents, focusing on mental health awareness and substance use prevention. He also founded Known at Home, offering reliable at-home drug tests and resources to foster trust and transparency within families.
This episode is for the overwhelmed parent, the high achiever, or anyone questioning if alcohol is hindering their potential. If you've ever asked yourself, Could my life be better without alcohol?, this conversation provides candid, judgment-free insights from someone who's been there—both personally and professionally.
We cover:
- The unexpected catalyst for Daniel's sobriety journey and why it resonated
- The impact of quitting alcohol on personal relationships and social engagements
- The intricate link between anxiety, alcohol use, and mental health
- Effective strategies for discussing substance use and mental health with your children
- Establishing boundaries and safeguarding your well-being during recovery
- How Daniel's educational background informs his approach to substance use prevention
- The empowering act of sharing your story to live authentically, not to judge others
Whether you're sober-curious, reevaluating your relationship with alcohol, or aiming to enhance your mental well-being, this episode offers valuable perspectives. Tune in and join the conversation.
More Daniel - https://www.instagram.com/pattersonperspective
Known at Home - https://www.instagram.com/knownathome/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello and welcome to the Cameo Show.
I'm your host, Cameo.
Today on the Cameo Show, we'rechatting with Daniel Patterson.
On social media he's atPatterson Perspective and we're
talking about his 10 years ofsobriety, From breaking
destructive patterns to findingfreedom and authenticity.
His story is packed withinspiration and practical wisdom
for anyone ready to make achange.
(00:21):
Daniel is an author, a speaker,a former educator, who uses his
platform to share the raw andreal truths of recovery and the
importance of mental health.
Through sharing his journey,he's inspiring others to embrace
authenticity, overcomeaddiction and live with purpose.
His impactful work has beenfeatured in major media outlets
(00:41):
like the LA Times, NBC, ABC, FoxNews and the Huffington Post,
to name a few, and today he'ssharing his powerful journey and
lessons he's learned along theway with us.
So, Daniel, welcome to the show.
Thank you so much for beinghere.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Thanks for having me.
That was a tall introduction.
I appreciate that.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
That's all you, buddy .
Speaker 2 (01:02):
I mean, you made it easy on me, good Lord we're
honored to have you.
We connected all you, buddy Imean you made it easy on me,
Good Lord.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
We're honored to have you.
We connected through Instagramjust recently.
I've been following you for awhile, along with tens of
thousands of other people whofeel very connected to your
content, because you're real andyou share, kind of what you
were thinking and what you'vebeen going through and what
you've experienced and how it'shelped you in an effort to help
others, and I just think it's sobeautiful, because not everyone
(01:28):
feels brave enough to do thataround this topic specifically.
So thank you for doing that andthank you for connecting with
us, and I just want to diveright in.
So before we do so, I betterintroduce my husband and co-host
, mr Greg Braun.
Sorry, greg.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
Little old me.
No, no, I just.
I always like to start off witha dad joke and I've got a good
one for today.
And, daniel, do you know whatstate is the most well-known
state for its tiny drinks?
No, minnesota.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
All right.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
Now that we've kicked things off with a few laughs.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
Thank you, greg, that's actually a really good
one.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
That is a good one.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
Sometimes the dad jokes leave me like okay, like a
dad joke should, but um, let'sdive right in.
Let's start with your journey10 years ago.
Tell us how it started.
Was it something that you madethe decision like, a conscious
decision like tomorrow I'm goingto stop drinking.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
No, no, it was not that sexy or pre-planned, it was
an accident.
So I had been in my headdrinking was a chore.
It was in the chore phase ofusing where I was super anxious
about it.
Before I did it, I was alwaysdoing drunk math Like how many
drinks can I have if I'm withthese people?
(02:49):
How many drinks can I havebefore, how many drinks can I
have at dinner, so that itdoesn't look like I have a
problem.
You know, just like a shellgame of vodka and Chardonnay,
just like, just like mixing it,trying to spin it.
So the times when, like I think, my wife thought I was
(03:10):
definitely going to quit, or Ipromised I was going to quit, I
never did.
And then New Year's Eve, I guess, 2014, we went out to dinner.
My wife we had a three-year-olddaughter at the time had some
wine at dinner and then wenthome and then went home and then
just drank a ton of WoodbridgeChardonnay Very classy here and
(03:34):
the big bottles they're veryuser-friendly.
So we woke up the next day andmy wife was very good at being
like passive, aggressive in agood way.
So we had an early breakfastlike 8 am the next day, right,
new.
Year's Day we weren't doinganything on New Year's Day, 2015
.
So we go to this Norm's Dinerit's really like kind of old
(03:56):
school, very like steamy, clinky, clanky kind of small thing and
I start, I'm there and I feellike buddy the elf.
Everything is like reallyclosing in on me and I start
having auditory hallucinations,which is wild.
So I got to my car, we're withanother family, so I'm like
(04:17):
completely embarrassed, right,my wife's mortified and I'm
having these hallucinations andthat shook me to my core, right,
because normally I like myanxiety, I'll talk to myself
like it's that voice, right, butthis was a different voice and
I was like, okay, uh, so I wentto the doctor and anyways, they
(04:39):
were like you got to pump thebrakes, right, because we have
to figure out, like what, what'shappening here.
So that's how I started a dryJanuary.
But it was not like the othertimes where I had said, okay, uh
, starting Monday, I'm gonnaquit, right, like I would always
do this thing, like set thisfuture ambiguous date and then
(05:03):
make excuses why it wouldn'twork.
Oh, it's Labor Day, I can't dothat.
You know like what holidayscoming up that I can like attach
my drinking to.
So I started a dry January, butnot like it is today.
Right, it just happened to beJanuary and I haven't had a
(05:24):
drink or drug since.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
January 2015.
So just over 10 years, I sharedwith you, before we started
recording, that Greg is also inhis 10th year and I'm
approaching mine of alcohol-freeliving.
And I'm not surprised to hearyou say I didn't necessarily
plan it, because neither of usdid either.
It just kind of happened.
(05:47):
Drinking up to that point wasjust something that we had
always done Right, attached itto whatever holiday or whatever
celebration or whatevernon-celebration like our
football team lost.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
You know I'm upset, or?
Speaker 1 (06:01):
I had a rough day at work, I need to drink.
So Greg decided to stopdrinking and I kind of lagged'm.
I had a rough day at work, Ineed to drink, so Greg decided
to stop drinking and I kind oflagged behind because I had
other reasons, like attachmentwith my job and different things
that I was doing that felt tooforeign for me to stop drinking.
But I feel like that's a commonthing that you hear often is
that people weren't necessarilyplanning to like I don't even
(06:23):
know my actual date, so I can't.
I say I'm approaching 10 yearsbecause I don't know what the
day was.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
I don't, I remember that, what happened, but I don't
remember the day and I thinkpart of the reason I remember
the day so specifically isbecause of the day it was.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
And I just remember watching, uh, you know that
month and into February,watching, uh, college football
playoffs and and NFL playoffs,and just being like questioning
all of my life decisions, likewhat?
Like I remember Googling theSuper Bowl halftime.
I'm like is Katy Perry soberbecause she performed at the
(06:59):
halftime show?
Is Tom Brady sober?
You know, just like trying tofigure out like this new
landscape of of the world.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
And it was, it was horrifying yeah well, and 10
years ago it wasn't as widelytalked about.
Social media was kind of stilla platform that we just posted
pictures on and shared like whatour family's doing, so there
wasn't a lot of emphasis to yourpoint on like dry January or no
, it wasn't a thing really.
(07:30):
Yeah right, I remember itwasn't even like an option to
drink non-alcoholic drinks,because it was O'Doul's.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
That was your choice.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
You know, like there weren't fun bubbly waters, there
weren't curious elixirs.
There weren't these differentbubbly waters.
There weren't curious elixirs,there weren't these different
beverages that you could drink.
Not that that's necessarily away that people transition, but
it was just a completelydifferent time, and so your
situation was unique in that youstarted experiencing some
(07:59):
health situations.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
Yeah, but I mean all of the other health situations
that I had experienced whiledrinking never got my attention,
but I think because this onewas.
I mean, I knew I had horribleanxiety when I was hungover.
I knew the repercussions.
I just didn't care.
Like you know, like when you'rehungover you're so hungover and
you're just making all sorts ofpromises to God and everyone,
(08:22):
and then at like 4 PM.
You've turned a corner andyou're like I'm back, baby, Like
it's problem solved, I can, Ican drink again Like we're good.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
Oh yes, all too familiar for sure.
I used to call that my Sundaysorries where I would get my
phone out and text everyone thatI probably offended the night
before.
Yeah, the apology tour everyonethat I probably offended the
night before.
Yeah, the apology tour.
Any day of the week, for thatmatter, the apology tour, yes.
So when you first stoppeddrinking, you said, like
familiar for us as well, likeSuperbowl.
(08:55):
You start Googling andquestioning things, getting a
little bit more curious aboutwhat does this actually look
like?
Were you scared?
Speaker 2 (09:10):
look like Were you scared.
Yeah, yeah, I was because.
I had never had any experiencesas an adult without alcohol
like zero, I mean.
So there was no everything thatfirst year was new.
Speaker 3 (09:20):
Yes, Everything was new.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
It's like, oh, like, what is?
Like, what are you supposed todo on St Patrick's day?
Or like, what do you do onSundays when you just feel so
anxious about work, Like whatyou mean to tell me we're just
supposed to sit here, you know,like I'm just supposed to.
And then also like myrelationship and this is so dumb
(09:44):
, but like my relationship withfootball, because drinking and
football were just it was justSaturday, drinking this college
NFL Sunday, and then I justremember looking at the TV and
being like what am I like,really like I'm supposed to just
sit here and watch that dude?
Speaker 3 (10:02):
same, same same exactly it was like religion.
Uh, saturday it started likethursday night it was a great
excuse to drink.
Thursday night game, fridaynight, saturday, and and it just
.
And then now you notice like,oh my god, these games last
forever they're so long andthey're just nothing but beer
(10:22):
commercials and went uh pizzacommercials.
And you're just like I justfeel compelled to drink by
watching this, just because youkeep showing me these sexy
people drinking and tailgatingright you know, and it's like I
gotta go do something.
You know.
So my love for football.
Even though I still respect theeverything, I don't watch it
(10:42):
like I used to.
10 years later, it's like adifferent thing for now you know
it's a time it's just like shitit is time.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
Yeah, like it took me a really long time to watch
football again.
And now I watch a lot of nflbecause my kids like to watch it
or whatever, but I really don'twatch college football.
Um, I'm not super hungover.
I don't need to just lay on thecouch and do something.
I can, like, go out and dosomething.
Yeah, um, although I don't.
(11:10):
You know, one of the issues Ihave with like the whole sober
content creator algorithm thingis all of the glorious like
montages of people, just youknow, doing yoga and going for
hikes and doing like right away,because I think it makes people
feel like they're doing itwrong in the beginning, because
(11:33):
in the beginning you just ifthis is my philosophy you just
have to get scrappy Right.
So, whatever it takes to notdrink or use, do it Whatever
that looks like for you.
So if you're not running 5K,who cares?
Go walk for 20 minutes, it'sthe same.
And so I think the comparisontrap of social media makes it
(11:54):
you're like I was bad atdrinking and now I'm bad at
recovery, like what the hell?
I am not good at either.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
Yeah, yeah, that's a great point.
I agree with you wholeheartedlythere.
The early days are reallydifficult because you start
questioning to your pointeverything about your identity.
Who am I going to show up as atthis work outing?
Who am I going to show up aswhen I've had a rough day?
And I need to be super momwithout that crutch, these toxic
(12:22):
coping strategies that we use,and alcohol for me was my choice
, my number one cheerleaderthere for me anytime.
And so you change, the peoplethat you're around, the places
that you go, the things that youdo, but not tomorrow.
Tomorrow, in the early stages,is like I'm just trying to get
(12:43):
through today and I'll be notdrinking today, and then I'll
probably make the same choicetomorrow, but I'm not like
outrunning a marathon to yourpoint, like I haven't quite
transitioned there yet.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
And so social media I guess you're right perpetuates
this idea that you stop drinking, and then, all of a sudden,
there's this blissful transitioninto all of these great
activities and it's like yeah ittakes time and and I, even
today, just posted a video of amontage of the things that I do
now, right, sure, but I did avoiceover and I talk about, like
(13:16):
the, the experience of it, butthis is 10 years later.
This is not what you shouldexpect tomorrow.
Later, this is not, right whatyou should expect tomorrow.
Um, yeah, so that first yearwas just all of these first,
first, first, and, and then evenlike, what do I do?
Speaker 3 (13:31):
with my hands like at a party like what do I?
Speaker 2 (13:34):
how do I talk to people?
Speaker 1 (13:36):
yeah, yeah, you know that's like all the social
skills like for I was like alittle child, like people, like
what's up I'm like good you knowyeah you're so right, yeah, I
remember, greg, you would talkabout like going to a happy hour
for the first time and sweatingand being like I I just didn't
(13:58):
know how to behave like I wasn'tsweating because I was having
withdrawal.
I was sweating because I hadsocial anxiety so thick that I
didn't know how to show up inthat situation.
Speaker 3 (14:08):
Yeah, like two weeks after hard stop had a.
You know I'm a loan officer fora bank and meeting with my
whole team and in the past itwas by drinks and shots and I
looked at myself as theringleader of that, you know, as
a good and making sureeveryone's nice, and buzzed at
630.
We got to get get rocked, youknow and it was like water and
(14:30):
I'm like, yeah, you know, it wasjust so intense.
I'm like, wow, this is crazybecause you're like you said
it's the first.
I mean I started drinkingprobably around 16 and, you know
, just never experienced what itwas like to be a grown-ass man
without a drink.
Yeah, it's wild.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
That's a great segue.
I know that a lot of your focushas been on mental health as
well, and your books that you'vewritten have been about helping
teens explore coping strategiesor being able to communicate
with their parents and helpingparents communicate with their
kids.
Can you speak a little bitabout that and what you've
learned in all of your years ofyour education background and
(15:12):
how that's kind of applied toyour own journey in this?
Speaker 2 (15:16):
Yeah, I mean, I was a high school teacher for 10
years and then I was a highschool assistant principal and
then I worked in therapeuticschools for a long time building
therapeutic programs for kidswith typically co-occurring
disorders so mental health andaddiction, you know but on the
educational side.
(15:36):
So how do these kids stillaccess education in school and
keep going?
So what that did for me was itreally showed me the the worst
case scenario often, where theproblem has been addressed at
the, at the late stages, whereit's very intense and very
dramatic and very expensive.
So really what I wanted to dowas like get to a place where
(16:01):
people were having uncomfortableconversations now, rather than
waiting to the end and spendinglike a hundred thousand dollars
on treatment Right, whenoftentimes this could have been
very easily addressed in a wholelot of discomfort.
But in the comparison betweenthe two, um could have been
easily addressed.
When you talk to your kidsabout drugs, it doesn't make
(16:23):
them do drugs.
When you talk to your kidsabout sex, it doesn't make them
have sex.
Like when you talk to your kidsabout mental health, it's not
going to like make themdepressed.
These are all things that weneed to be addressing in real
time, proactively, unemotionally, kind of non-dramatically, so
that they're not, they don'tbecome these big manifestations
(16:44):
later.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
Yeah, I love that.
I feel like my eyes were opento that, as I was able to be
more honest with myself when Istopped drinking, about the
choices that I was making andwhat they were driven by.
It completely reframed how Iparent and the conversations
that we have with our kids, asthey've become teenagers, around
these topics in a way that I'mnot sure I would have been able
(17:07):
to do if I weren't practicingthat brutal honesty with myself
that comes along with thedecision to get real about my
coping mechanism.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
Right, and it's not like every parent who drinks has
a drinking problem, right, butit's.
There is something to be said.
It's pretty hard to talk toyour kids about their mental
health and their coping skillsIf you, as an adult, don't
address yours.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
Right.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
And so I think that's why a lot of parents don't is
because there's this shame orthe reality that you're going to
have to actually look in themirror and have some hard
conversations with yourself,because if you're, you know
smoking a bowl every night andthen you tell Tommy like hey, no
weed.
He's going to be.
Like you know, fuck you, yousmoke weed.
(17:56):
You know, so it's just thisweird.
You know discomfort, but I canguarantee you, working in that
really elevated setting, it'snot as uncomfortable as having a
kid overdose or or try to taketheir own life or self-harm or,
you know, have a psychotic break.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
Yeah, I can't even imagine.
I feel very grateful that we,you know we had our own
struggles and awful situationsthat I think everyone probably
experiences Not everyone, that'sthat's too big of a blanket
statement but a lot of peopleexperience and maybe write off
until you start reflecting on itin a in a different light.
But I'm grateful you know thatwe kind of broke that cycle
(18:37):
early in our kids lives and havehandled it differently, because
I just can't imagine especiallythe responsibility that comes
along with that.
as a parent, you feelresponsible for everything and
that that's a very heavy one.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
Um for sure.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
Did you, in your experience, feel any trepidation
about sharing this part of yourjourney Um?
Speaker 2 (19:01):
I did not share about it for a long time and actually
I didn't tell anybody beyond mywife and my therapist for like
six months and then I didn't sayanything publicly.
Actually, I was outed sort ofas being sober on a podcast.
I was outed sort of as beingsober on a podcast and I went on
(19:23):
a podcast with a friend wholived in Texas and he's a big
author, educator, and I went totalk about education, right,
because that was really what Iwas known for.
Was this kind of intersectionof mental health, substance
abuse really actually justmental health and education?
The substance abuse I hadn'treally talked about because I
didn't want to talk about it.
(19:44):
And then on the podcast he justasked a question like oh, tell
me about your sobriety.
And in that moment I had tomake a choice like oh, do I say
like, oh, I don't want to talkabout that, or do I just like go
for it?
And I just went for it.
So that was not until probably2018, maybe, yeah.
(20:09):
So a few years, a few years,yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
When we first stopped drinking.
It's received differently by alot of people, and I'm sure you
have experienced that as well.
People aren't sure how torespond.
I feel like it does one of twothings makes them reflect on
their own choices in a way thatthey feel like they have to kind
of defend, even though youweren't trying to make them feel
that way, or that they kind ofask you like you don't drink at
(20:33):
all and you're like then youfeel the responsibility to
explain yourself.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
Right, you have to just, like sober, explain them.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
Yeah, sober, explain.
That's great.
So that's probably a prettyrelatable type of response that
people have when they firststart talking about being sober.
My choice doesn't have anythingto do with anybody else's
choice, and my choice does notmean that I'm judging other
people, but it still feels thatway sometimes and so that's why
I love your content so much,because you're so brave and
authentic in the way that youshare it, that it doesn't feel
(21:06):
judgmental.
It doesn't feel like you haveto be defensive about it.
You're just literally sayinglike this was my choice and this
is how it's impacted me, and Ithink it's interesting to hear
that you had some trepidationaround it.
I was curious just inresearching you, like if you
were bashful for lack of abetter word because of your
education career, if peoplewould you know.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
So yeah, I mean, I for sure.
Yeah, cause I quit drinking in2015, but I didn't quit my job
at the high school until the endof 2016.
So, all of 2015, all of 2016,.
Maybe some people knew, but Ididn't talk about it.
Absolutely I didn't want to belike having people second guess
(21:49):
every decision I had made or youknow, any choice I had made.
And I didn't drink at work.
I am proud of that.
I am proud of that because Idrank a lot of places but I
didn't drink at work.
Yeah, but for sure, there wasthis like sort of moral high
ground that I felt like I had tomaintain to keep my credibility
(22:10):
, and certainly now, as anentrepreneur, I don't give a
shit what people?
think, and I don't make contentto sell anything I don't have a
click funnel, I don't have a, Idon't have anything.
So it's just like.
This is just.
I'm just saying what I want tosay.
And some people have maincharacter syndrome where they
(22:33):
want to make it about them andthey get into comments and they
get really aggressive or they'relike the sober police and
they're like that's not correct.
But I don't like that stuffused to really bother me, but
now I'm just like, okay, blockand bless.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
Block and bless.
I love that too, not doing it.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
I'm not here to convince you.
I don't care Like don't gethammered.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
And the people that you're resonating with and the
people that you're impacting inthe way that they need is louder
.
It's way stronger than thepeople who want to show up and
be keyboard police or whatever.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
Yeah, and that's where I had to like really
remind myself why does our braindo that?
Like you can have a hundredpositive comments and one
negative, and then the brain islike oh my God, I'm the worst.
Like you start looking at thatperson's profile and you want to
like dissect their like bio andfigure out what fuck you brad
like yeah, um, but I don't, Ijust, it just doesn't matter
(23:30):
anymore I've got a question.
Speaker 3 (23:31):
Um, you mentioned therapy.
Was that something that youstarted in parallel with with
quitting drinking?
Speaker 2 (23:39):
for sure.
Yeah, okay, yeah.
But I had been in therapy for awhile before that, but mostly
just to like I would say tomyself and to my wife, like I'm
only drinking because I have allthis trauma from my childhood
and from growing up and andthat's why, right, so let me go
(24:01):
to therapy and like, once I workthrough it, I'm sure I'll be
able to quit, right?
So I really didn't start themeaningful work, I think, until
after I was sober, becauseobviously then you're just stuck
in your feelings and so youhave to get them out.
Speaker 3 (24:18):
Yeah, yeah that's I think you know as a listener out
there, listen to this episode.
They might be like, well, I'vethought about quitting or I want
to quit, but it's so scary.
But just knowing that you yourstory, I know.
For us, our story, we'vedefinitely leaned on
professional help and, quitehonestly, without having that
(24:40):
there, I don't know that I wouldhave been able to see it
through and be sitting here 10years later, not only therapy
but also having like one of mybest friend was also going
through NA at the time, so hewas kind of feeding me the
crucial mindset shifting thingsof like one foot into yesterday,
one foot into tomorrow, you'repissing all over today, kind of
(25:01):
stuff Totally yeah, becauseyou're always in your head.
You're like, well, I can, can't.
I got a thing coming up nextweek.
I got a drink.
I'm not going to drink at that,and I love christmas ales and
it's christmas time.
I'm not going to drink those.
You know and you're like rightjust what do you need to do
today, today, today, today rightthe future tripping the future
yeah you know, I, I have peoplewho want to quit drinking.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
They're like, yeah, but like like, when my daughter
gets married, like, and I'mdoing the champagne toast, I'm
like, bro, your daughter's eightyou know, and if you don't stop
drinking and you justcompletely fuck up her life,
then is she going to be healthyenough to even get to that phase
(25:41):
of life, right?
So, like, get over yourself,yeah, yeah, then is she going to
be healthy enough to even getto that phase of life.
Right so like get over yourself, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
Yeah, and Greg, you mentioned about our friend in
the support system.
Um, Daniel, you've mentionedabout your wife being the only
person who knew for a while.
Uh, can you talk a little bitabout the importance of having a
strong support system?
We talk a lot about supportivespouses, but in this situation,
you know who you can lean onyour therapist and why.
(26:10):
That's a driving force andbeing able to continue each day.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
Well, I mean, I I think that the the initial
support of a spouse or partneror whatever family is, is good,
but it's not.
It's not the only thing, andit's actually not lasting,
because my wife does not have anunhealthy relationship with
alcohol.
You know, she is a little bitof a psychopath, Like she can
have like a few sips of wine andset the glass down and not
(26:36):
finish it at dinner and you'rejust like, I'm just like finish
it know sometimes I'll be likeI'm not leaving until you finish
that, um, but so she just, youknow she has the, the, the
sympathy, but not the empathy.
I guess because she's not beenin, that she doesn't understand
it in the in the way that that Ido, and that's not her fault
(26:57):
and it shouldn't be myexpectation that she assumes
that role.
Sure, right.
So finding a therapist thatspecializes in addiction, or
finding a community group andpeople have a lot of feelings
about AA or NA, or but I'mtelling you, right now there's
like I could rattle off like 15online support groups right now
(27:17):
that are recovery, like agnostic, right, they don't subscribe to
any sort of doctrine andthey're great right.
Just having any kind of personin the ring with you is super
important to making it last.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
Yeah, I feel very grateful that we did this
together, greg, but I also knowthat in your situation it is
possible with a spouse or ourparents who still drink around
us, and we weren't necessarilyuncomfortable with that.
I just feel like it's great tohave a support system, because
we get in our own head and wefall back into these bad habits
and these associative habitsthat sometimes it's helpful to
(27:56):
have someone there to be likehey, remember why you're doing
this, or oh for sure, yeah, yeah, or you, you know, if you're.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
The other thing that was you know is horrifying, was
horrifying to me and horrifyingto a lot of people was that, um,
you know, like getting newfriends, like what about my old
friends?
And then you sort of like phasesome people out and you face
some new people in, and that'sdoesn't have to be dramatic and
(28:23):
it doesn't have to be, um, youknow, right away, but if you're
not like shedding people, you'renot growing Right, and if
people aren't shedding you,you're probably not growing,
unless you're just like a dick.
But, like you know, likethere's going to be times where
you're going to kind of moveaway, and so the people that I'm
friends with now on a likedaily basis or socially are not
(28:45):
the same people that I had in mylife 10 years ago.
And but if, if I saw them, Iwould be, it would be great and
probably still connected onsocial media.
Mostly, you know, like it's not, it doesn't have to be this
thing.
So I know a lot of people fearlike, well, what about my
friends?
And well, you know what aboutyour friends?
Speaker 1 (29:04):
Like, yeah, for the most part, I feel like our
friends were at first kind oflike are you guys serious, Cause
we were pretty, you know,pretty big life of the party.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
Yeah, we were lots of fun yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
And then it was kind of like oh, you guys are serious
and then super supportive, andin fact some of them have said,
you know, I've been inspired byyour journey to reflect upon my
own and that makes it all feelreally great.
And not from a judgmentstandpoint or, like you said,
I'm not trying to bring anyonealong with me or help them make
decisions or changes in theirlife, I'm just being me and
that's why I think I'm so drawnto you and how real you are.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
Where I've landed in my messaging and I appreciate
the kindness and affirmation isa derivative, though, of having
landed in a very big kind ofhero complex in like 2020,
during like, when I got reallybig on TikTok and a huge TikTok
platform which I which I don'thave anymore I deleted TikTok
about I don't know almost a yearago, I think, and I had a few
(30:06):
hundred thousand followers andthen I started running these
free groups and then you couldpay to be in the group and it
was like this kind of feeling,like I had to save everyone and
and I had to maintain this senseof like everything's good all
the time in my content right,never showing, never showing up,
like fuck, this is so hard.
(30:27):
And this is what happened, likeit was always really intentional
to try to like boost everyoneup and in 2023, I ended up in a
outpatient program fordepression Because I was so
emotionally exhausted.
I was just laying on the floorof our living room like I
stopped working.
(30:47):
I just like I could notfunction.
I could not function, so I hadto go.
I didn't have to.
I chose to go to.
This program is all day foreight weeks and it was like
therapeutic summer camp, likeall these people.
It was so fun, um, it was sohard, but it was great, um.
So I think now my one of myother messages to people is like
(31:08):
don't, you, don't have to saveanyone.
You, you really actually youcan't save anyone.
That's right.
So don't even try.
Like if they want to kind offollow your, your suggestion, or
they want to follow like theway that you live your life,
perfect, but it's not your job,nor is it like your ego's job to
be some fucking Messiah topeople who are in recovery or
(31:34):
thinking about it.
So I really try to be like takeit or leave it.
This is my message, this is mytruth.
I have good days and bad daysand I get a lot of DMS.
I get a lot of DMS that aresuper, you know, raw, let's say,
and I used to take time toreally like try to thoughtfully
reply and like encourage and youcan do, I.
I just I don't do it anymore.
(31:56):
Really, like some people, yeah,if, but I don't you know I
don't respond to the like reallypouty kind of victimy messages.
Speaker 1 (32:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:06):
It's not my job.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
That's right, and you have established that boundary
for yourself in a way that keepsyou healthy, which is extremely
important.
Yeah, um, I so many things thatyou said that I can relate to
and that I have questions about.
10 years later, or almost 10years later, for me, I still
have moments where I'm like if Iwere a drinker, I'd be almost
there by now.
(32:28):
It's noon, I'm with my kids, orit's a holiday and I'm over it.
Do you experience that, andwhat are some of the things that
you've learned along the way,tools that you lean on in those
moments all these years later?
Speaker 2 (32:40):
Well, yeah, I mean, what's so funny that there's the
opposite?
It's like when I was a drinkeractor drinker I was a very rigid
school schedule.
You know, like very, you haveno decision-making power about
your schedule, right.
But now I'm an entrepreneur andI just launched a new, a new
startup a few months ago whichI'm just at home working on and
(33:03):
I don't have to be anywhere.
You know, I don't have to beanywhere, so I have to make
myself have to be somewhere, orhave to have now having kids, or
have to have Now having kidscertainly helps, right, because
I do like get up, get them readyfor school, pack the lunches,
take them to school, pick themup from school, coach their
teams.
But I, you know, I go to the gyma few times a week with some
buddies and I go for a walkevery day and I try to, you know
(33:26):
, stay busy.
Like yesterday my wife was outof town with one of our kids and
so I had another.
My oldest was with a friend andthen my youngest was with a
friend.
So I was like I'm all by myself, like this would have been
prime drinking season.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
So I cleaned my house .
Speaker 2 (33:43):
I cleaned.
Speaker 3 (33:44):
I did the laundry.
Speaker 2 (33:45):
I did some rage cleaning.
I didn't actually want to drink, but I just knew like that was
would have been the perfectstorm of drunk daniel be like
nfl playoff game the universeclearly wants me to get drunk,
like yeah, it's sunday it'ssunday, fun day, bro.
(34:05):
Well and it was raining heretoo so that's even more like oh,
it never rains here Better getthe whiskey out.
Speaker 1 (34:14):
Always a reason, that is for sure.
Yeah, it's like embarrassing tothink about some of the lies
that I told myself about why Ineeded to drink, and some of
them that I still have to talkmyself off the ledge about all
these years later.
Kind of to your point at thebeginning of like it doesn't
just happen overnight.
So what advice would you givesomeone who is doing dry January
(34:35):
or someone who is, you know,considering what life without
alcohol might look like?
But it's scary.
You're on the mountaintop andyou've got the microphone in
your hand.
What's your best line of advicefor them?
Speaker 2 (34:48):
I mean, I would just say don't get a case of the
forevers right.
Like you don't have nothing isforever.
So if you decide to take abreak, like it's just a break,
like, as my older daughter wouldsay to me, it's not that deep,
it's not that deep, right so?
But what I will say is that Ithink every adult should give
(35:10):
themselves the opportunity atleast to experience life without
alcohol for long enough to knowthe difference and the second
half of that sentence is the bigpart of that sentence.
Long enough to know thedifference is not 31 days,
because if you're just doing adry January, which is
(35:32):
commendable, but you'reliterally just counting down the
days and in your brain you'relike February 1st getting
hammered, you know.
So you just have this threemonths.
Maybe you could start to tellsix months, for sure you know
that's when you would then sayokay, am I going to go back or
not?
And I think the typical patternfor a lot of people that I
(35:55):
experience is they go.
I did three months maybe, and Ihaven't managed.
I'm just going to drink like,put all the rules back in, but
make it bigger.
Yeah, only on weekends, neveralone, only with with people,
never at home, like that'sexactly what I did, yeah yeah,
you try to rearrange the chairslike on the titanic, right like
(36:18):
it, just it's not working.
And so then the second timeyou're like oh okay, yeah, but
people have to learn that ontheir own.
Yeah, and you really can't.
I think you can quit drinkingfor somebody else, but you have,
you can only stay sober foryourself yeah which is which is
weird.
Um, so a lot of people will getultimatums or you know, a health
(36:38):
scare, like me, and you're justlike okay, I'm gonna stop,
because the doctor told me andmy wife was like what the fuck?
And I'm like and so I'm gonnastop because I have to yeah,
yeah but then month two was like.
No, I kind of want to eventhough I don't.
I'm 50, 50, you know.
And then eventually I tookownership of it.
Speaker 1 (36:58):
Yeah, Would you say that month two is accurate for
you?
That's when you feel like youkind of wanted to Well yeah, I
wanted.
Speaker 2 (37:05):
I was well, I was afraid to drink.
Yeah, so I was, it was fear.
Well, I was afraid to drink,yeah, so it was fear, but at
least it was my own Sure.
You know, I had proven quoteproven that I'm not an alcoholic
, I can quit drinking.
But I think what I reallyproved was that I actually was
an alcoholic, because it was sohard and you know, I just had
this big calendar, like a schoolcalendar, up on my kitchen and
(37:29):
I would cross off with a blueSharpie every day that I didn't
drink.
Speaker 1 (37:33):
Really.
Speaker 2 (37:33):
Yeah, I did that for months, probably like six months
.
Wow, like a huge tabletop, onethat's meant to go on the big
principal's desk, I like rippedit off and I put it up on the
wall.
Wow, but no one we didn't haveanyone over, so no one knew.
Speaker 1 (37:47):
No one could see that .
Yeah Well, as a woman, I hadquit drinking when I was
pregnant and I was also aprofessional bodybuilder for a
short time and I could quitwhile I was training.
So of course I didn't have aproblem.
I can quit whenever I want to,if I feel like I have a reason
to Sure.
But then when the real timecame and it was time for me to
(38:08):
reevaluate kind of thatrelationship and who I show up
as it was like very easy for meto see that, like you said, I
probably had a little more of aproblem than I would have ever
given given credit to duringthat time when I when I couldn't
see it that way- Well andthat's the other part I think
about early recovery is that ifyou're me, you tried to
(38:30):
sugarcoat it, so I was alwaysintentional about making it seem
easier than it was to peoplearound me, because if I said it
was so hard, then I was justlike proving everything right
that I had such a problem.
That makes sense.
Speaker 2 (38:46):
By minimizing the struggle of initial recovery, I
was hiding how deep the problemwas for me.
Speaker 1 (38:53):
Yes, yes.
Speaker 3 (38:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:56):
Now that you say that , if I reflect upon, like my
initial months, I definitely Idid that to myself and not just
for myself but for everyone elsearound me, I think, to make
them comfortable with mydecision.
Speaker 2 (39:08):
You don't want to make them too uncomfortable.
Oh, it's fine, everything'sgood.
Speaker 1 (39:11):
And then you're like in your car, like like yeah,
I've had people reach out aboutthis, you know, not, not like it
sounds like you have wherethey're pouring their heart out
to me and I'm not sure I wouldbe ready to handle that, but in
a way where it's like I didn'tdrink for two weeks and I didn't
really feel a difference and Ijust I commend them for their
(39:34):
approach.
But I agree with you that ittakes so much longer to really
get to the root of what you'refeeling and why you feel that
way.
Speaker 2 (39:41):
to kind, of make that decision.
If you have the need to sendthat message, then you don't
actually feel that way, rightthen?
You don't actually feel thatway Right, because somebody who
doesn't drink for two weeks anddoesn't care does not send a
message telling someone thatthey didn't drink for two weeks.
Speaker 1 (39:59):
Right, it's just not even a thing.
It's not even a thing.
Speaker 2 (40:02):
Like if I asked my wife like, oh, when's the last
time you had a drink?
She would be like I have noidea, Right.
Speaker 1 (40:07):
She literally wouldn't know.
Speaker 2 (40:09):
If you had asked me like, oh, I haven't had a drink
in three days, like, I wouldknow, like, and I'd be so proud
of it and it would be this bigthing.
But that's not how normalpeople and I don't say normal,
like we're different in theirnormal, but normies is what you
know, kind of a street name forpeople who don't drink is or who
don't have a drinking problemnormies.
(40:30):
They just don't think aboutthose things.
Speaker 1 (40:33):
I've never heard that before.
Speaker 2 (40:34):
Normies.
Is that?
Speaker 1 (40:35):
like a West Coast thing.
I guess that's what we callpeople who don't have a drinking
problem.
Speaker 2 (40:39):
normies, Normies.
People will be like, oh, doesyour wife drink?
And I say, no, she's a normie.
Speaker 1 (40:44):
Okay, that's great.
I love that I do want to askyou about what your new venture
is.
You've mentioned it a couple oftimes, about being an
entrepreneur and working on aproject.
Is that something you'd shareand talk?
Speaker 2 (40:56):
about.
Yeah, I mean it's.
We're open for business.
So I started a company calledknown at home and or known for
short, and it pairs adolescentsubstance testing so instant
drug test, instant alcohol test,instant nicotine test with
(41:17):
intensive parent education.
So when you buy a test it comeswith access to a parent
platform.
That's all of this curatedcontent by licensed clinical
psychologists trying to help youunderstand the why behind the
what right.
So like, maybe don't just groundtimmy because he's you know,
(41:39):
white girl wasted at homecoming.
Why don't you actually figureout, maybe, why he's drinking?
Is he anxious, is he depressed?
Was it just like a, like a oneand done Cause he was peer
pressure or whatever?
So what I understood about,like you know, working in in
treatment is there's a lot oftesting.
There's a lot of drug testingthat's available, but nothing
came with any kind of parentsupport.
(42:00):
So I wanted to make somethingthat was high quality, low cost
and highly like, enriched witheducation.
So it's a lot of mental healtharticles and how to support and
what to do when, and talkingpoints, things like that.
So I'm really excited about it.
Speaker 1 (42:19):
Amazing Congratulations.
Speaker 2 (42:21):
I mean, that's just such a beautiful transition from
your own background your ownjourney and marrying them
together to provide resources,your own journey and marrying
them together to provideresources.
Natural, yeah, and you know not, over 90% of adult addicts
start using under 18.
Speaker 1 (42:36):
Yeah, that's huge.
Speaker 2 (42:38):
So you know, but you know, parent everyone can do
whatever they want, but I wantedto if, if people are going to
have or test their kids, I wantthem to be empowered with the
correct tools to you can test.
But then what you know?
Speaker 1 (42:55):
what do you do with that?
What do you do with that?
Speaker 2 (42:56):
What do you do with that information?
Yeah, absolutely Imperative tobeing able to make meaningful
change, versus just kind oftreat the symptom or the
situation and then and maybecreate a little healthy paranoia
in your children, um children,so that they don't start using
at an early age, because everyyear that they don't use they're
less likely to have anunhealthy relationship with that
(43:19):
substance.
Speaker 1 (43:21):
What are the conversations like if you don't
mind me asking that you havewith your kids?
Are you there yet?
Are they still young enough?
Oh no, definitely.
Speaker 2 (43:29):
I mean, my kids know that I'm sober.
Obviously they're very aware ofthat.
Um, they can.
It's, it's a boundary, is notbubble wrap, right?
So I want my kids to be outinto the world, doing things,
being around things, but knowingthere's a line in the sand that
is defined because ambiguitywith teenagers does not work.
Speaker 1 (43:51):
It's the worst.
Speaker 2 (43:52):
No, it doesn't.
And again, it's hard.
It's hard because you want yourkids to like you and they want
to get you.
But if you get friend zoned byyour kids, you are, you're,
you're, you're screwed yeah.
Speaker 1 (44:06):
I would agree with that.
I think there it's a verydifficult, uh slippery slope to
manage between being anauthoritative figure and being
someone that they can confide infor sure.
Speaker 2 (44:18):
And I think and again , that's where I think the whole
lean of known is.
It's not punitive, yes, it'slive in information, not fear.
It's sort of having thesecourageous conversations again
to figure out the why behind thewhat.
Speaker 1 (44:33):
I love that so much.
I think that's has thepotential to help so many people
, especially as parents and asadults, when maybe we don't know
exactly what to do.
That's obviously the point.
But, like if you don't know howto approach these topics, you
just tend to stay away from them, Even if, even if you are sober
, even if you don't drink.
It still can be veryuncomfortable because
(44:54):
so-and-so's parents drink and Iwas at their house and they are
normies and they just had aglass of wine with dinner.
Why can't you guys do that?
Or what does it taste like?
Or you know?
Speaker 2 (45:06):
even, like you're my, if you have a kid and they're
best friends.
Parents don't care if theirbest friend drinks, right, but
you do.
So how do you navigate thatdynamic?
Speaker 1 (45:16):
Absolutely Resources to help people feel empowered
and armed with knowledge arounduncomfortable topics.
Speaker 2 (45:23):
Yeah, that paralysis by analysis, just it's not worth
it.
Speaker 1 (45:27):
Yeah, all right.
Speaker 2 (45:29):
Very good, thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (45:31):
Yeah, thank you so much for sharing all of your
experience and your insights.
Where can people go to findmore about you and and your new
venture?
Speaker 2 (45:41):
Patterson perspective is my handle and known at
homecom is the business.
Speaker 1 (45:49):
Amazing.
I will link those in the shownotes.
Thank you To all of youlisteners out there.
Thank you so much for joiningus.
If this resonated with you,please share it with a friend.
It takes away the stigma of notdrinking being a big, scary
monster and makes us.
Can we be normies too?
Speaker 2 (46:08):
Unfortunately not.
Speaker 1 (46:10):
That's not how that works.
It does kind of normalize theconversation around what to do
with alcohol, what not to dowith alcohol, what it means to
everyone and makes it not sodeep Not that deep, that's right
, thank you.
We have new episodes everyWednesday.
We hope you'll join us againsoon.
Thanks so much, Daniel.
(46:30):
Thanks, Greg.
Until next time.
Hello and welcome to the Cameo Show.
I'm your host, Cameo.
Today on the Cameo Show, we'rechatting with Daniel Patterson.
On social media he's atPatterson Perspective and we're
talking about his 10 years ofsobriety, From breaking
destructive patterns to findingfreedom and authenticity.
His story is packed withinspiration and practical wisdom
for anyone ready to make achange.
(00:21):
Daniel is an author, a speaker,a former educator, who uses his
platform to share the raw andreal truths of recovery and the
importance of mental health.
Through sharing his journey,he's inspiring others to embrace
authenticity, overcomeaddiction and live with purpose.
His impactful work has beenfeatured in major media outlets
(00:41):
like the LA Times, NBC, ABC, FoxNews and the Huffington Post,
to name a few, and today he'ssharing his powerful journey and
lessons he's learned along theway with us.
So, Daniel, welcome to the show.
Thank you so much for beinghere.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Thanks for having me.
That was a tall introduction.
I appreciate that.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
That's all you, buddy .
Speaker 2 (01:02):
I mean, you made it easy on me, good Lord we're
honored to have you.
We connected all you, buddy Imean you made it easy on me,
Good Lord.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
We're honored to have you.
We connected through Instagramjust recently.
I've been following you for awhile, along with tens of
thousands of other people whofeel very connected to your
content, because you're real andyou share, kind of what you
were thinking and what you'vebeen going through and what
you've experienced and how it'shelped you in an effort to help
others, and I just think it's sobeautiful, because not everyone
(01:28):
feels brave enough to do thataround this topic specifically.
So thank you for doing that andthank you for connecting with
us, and I just want to diveright in.
So before we do so, I betterintroduce my husband and co-host
, mr Greg Braun.
Sorry, greg.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
Little old me.
No, no, I just.
I always like to start off witha dad joke and I've got a good
one for today.
And, daniel, do you know whatstate is the most well-known
state for its tiny drinks?
No, minnesota.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
All right.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
Now that we've kicked things off with a few laughs.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
Thank you, greg, that's actually a really good
one.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
That is a good one.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
Sometimes the dad jokes leave me like okay, like a
dad joke should, but um, let'sdive right in.
Let's start with your journey10 years ago.
Tell us how it started.
Was it something that you madethe decision like, a conscious
decision like tomorrow I'm goingto stop drinking.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
No, no, it was not that sexy or pre-planned, it was
an accident.
So I had been in my headdrinking was a chore.
It was in the chore phase ofusing where I was super anxious
about it.
Before I did it, I was alwaysdoing drunk math Like how many
drinks can I have if I'm withthese people?
(02:49):
How many drinks can I havebefore, how many drinks can I
have at dinner, so that itdoesn't look like I have a
problem.
You know, just like a shellgame of vodka and Chardonnay,
just like, just like mixing it,trying to spin it.
So the times when, like I think, my wife thought I was
(03:10):
definitely going to quit, or Ipromised I was going to quit, I
never did.
And then New Year's Eve, I guess, 2014, we went out to dinner.
My wife we had a three-year-olddaughter at the time had some
wine at dinner and then wenthome and then went home and then
just drank a ton of WoodbridgeChardonnay Very classy here and
(03:34):
the big bottles they're veryuser-friendly.
So we woke up the next day andmy wife was very good at being
like passive, aggressive in agood way.
So we had an early breakfastlike 8 am the next day, right,
new.
Year's Day we weren't doinganything on New Year's Day, 2015
.
So we go to this Norm's Dinerit's really like kind of old
(03:56):
school, very like steamy, clinky, clanky kind of small thing and
I start, I'm there and I feellike buddy the elf.
Everything is like reallyclosing in on me and I start
having auditory hallucinations,which is wild.
So I got to my car, we're withanother family, so I'm like
(04:17):
completely embarrassed, right,my wife's mortified and I'm
having these hallucinations andthat shook me to my core, right,
because normally I like myanxiety, I'll talk to myself
like it's that voice, right, butthis was a different voice and
I was like, okay, uh, so I wentto the doctor and anyways, they
(04:39):
were like you got to pump thebrakes, right, because we have
to figure out, like what, what'shappening here.
So that's how I started a dryJanuary.
But it was not like the othertimes where I had said, okay, uh
, starting Monday, I'm gonnaquit, right, like I would always
do this thing, like set thisfuture ambiguous date and then
(05:03):
make excuses why it wouldn'twork.
Oh, it's Labor Day, I can't dothat.
You know like what holidayscoming up that I can like attach
my drinking to.
So I started a dry January, butnot like it is today.
Right, it just happened to beJanuary and I haven't had a
(05:24):
drink or drug since.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
January 2015.
So just over 10 years, I sharedwith you, before we started
recording, that Greg is also inhis 10th year and I'm
approaching mine of alcohol-freeliving.
And I'm not surprised to hearyou say I didn't necessarily
plan it, because neither of usdid either.
It just kind of happened.
(05:47):
Drinking up to that point wasjust something that we had
always done Right, attached itto whatever holiday or whatever
celebration or whatevernon-celebration like our
football team lost.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
You know I'm upset, or?
Speaker 1 (06:01):
I had a rough day at work, I need to drink.
So Greg decided to stopdrinking and I kind of lagged'm.
I had a rough day at work, Ineed to drink, so Greg decided
to stop drinking and I kind oflagged behind because I had
other reasons, like attachmentwith my job and different things
that I was doing that felt tooforeign for me to stop drinking.
But I feel like that's a commonthing that you hear often is
that people weren't necessarilyplanning to like I don't even
(06:23):
know my actual date, so I can't.
I say I'm approaching 10 yearsbecause I don't know what the
day was.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
I don't, I remember that, what happened, but I don't
remember the day and I thinkpart of the reason I remember
the day so specifically isbecause of the day it was.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
And I just remember watching, uh, you know that
month and into February,watching, uh, college football
playoffs and and NFL playoffs,and just being like questioning
all of my life decisions, likewhat?
Like I remember Googling theSuper Bowl halftime.
I'm like is Katy Perry soberbecause she performed at the
(06:59):
halftime show?
Is Tom Brady sober?
You know, just like trying tofigure out like this new
landscape of of the world.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
And it was, it was horrifying yeah well, and 10
years ago it wasn't as widelytalked about.
Social media was kind of stilla platform that we just posted
pictures on and shared like whatour family's doing, so there
wasn't a lot of emphasis to yourpoint on like dry January or no
, it wasn't a thing really.
(07:30):
Yeah right, I remember itwasn't even like an option to
drink non-alcoholic drinks,because it was O'Doul's.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
That was your choice.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
You know, like there weren't fun bubbly waters, there
weren't curious elixirs.
There weren't these differentbubbly waters.
There weren't curious elixirs,there weren't these different
beverages that you could drink.
Not that that's necessarily away that people transition, but
it was just a completelydifferent time, and so your
situation was unique in that youstarted experiencing some
(07:59):
health situations.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
Yeah, but I mean all of the other health situations
that I had experienced whiledrinking never got my attention,
but I think because this onewas.
I mean, I knew I had horribleanxiety when I was hungover.
I knew the repercussions.
I just didn't care.
Like you know, like when you'rehungover you're so hungover and
you're just making all sorts ofpromises to God and everyone,
(08:22):
and then at like 4 PM.
You've turned a corner andyou're like I'm back, baby, Like
it's problem solved, I can, Ican drink again Like we're good.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
Oh yes, all too familiar for sure.
I used to call that my Sundaysorries where I would get my
phone out and text everyone thatI probably offended the night
before.
Yeah, the apology tour everyonethat I probably offended the
night before.
Yeah, the apology tour.
Any day of the week, for thatmatter, the apology tour, yes.
So when you first stoppeddrinking, you said, like
familiar for us as well, likeSuperbowl.
(08:55):
You start Googling andquestioning things, getting a
little bit more curious aboutwhat does this actually look
like?
Were you scared?
Speaker 2 (09:10):
look like Were you scared.
Yeah, yeah, I was because.
I had never had any experiencesas an adult without alcohol
like zero, I mean.
So there was no everything thatfirst year was new.
Speaker 3 (09:20):
Yes, Everything was new.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
It's like, oh, like, what is?
Like, what are you supposed todo on St Patrick's day?
Or like, what do you do onSundays when you just feel so
anxious about work, Like whatyou mean to tell me we're just
supposed to sit here, you know,like I'm just supposed to.
And then also like myrelationship and this is so dumb
(09:44):
, but like my relationship withfootball, because drinking and
football were just it was justSaturday, drinking this college
NFL Sunday, and then I justremember looking at the TV and
being like what am I like,really like I'm supposed to just
sit here and watch that dude?
Speaker 3 (10:02):
same, same same exactly it was like religion.
Uh, saturday it started likethursday night it was a great
excuse to drink.
Thursday night game, fridaynight, saturday, and and it just
.
And then now you notice like,oh my god, these games last
forever they're so long andthey're just nothing but beer
(10:22):
commercials and went uh pizzacommercials.
And you're just like I justfeel compelled to drink by
watching this, just because youkeep showing me these sexy
people drinking and tailgatingright you know, and it's like I
gotta go do something.
You know.
So my love for football.
Even though I still respect theeverything, I don't watch it
(10:42):
like I used to.
10 years later, it's like adifferent thing for now you know
it's a time it's just like shitit is time.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
Yeah, like it took me a really long time to watch
football again.
And now I watch a lot of nflbecause my kids like to watch it
or whatever, but I really don'twatch college football.
Um, I'm not super hungover.
I don't need to just lay on thecouch and do something.
I can, like, go out and dosomething.
Yeah, um, although I don't.
(11:10):
You know, one of the issues Ihave with like the whole sober
content creator algorithm thingis all of the glorious like
montages of people, just youknow, doing yoga and going for
hikes and doing like right away,because I think it makes people
feel like they're doing itwrong in the beginning, because
(11:33):
in the beginning you just ifthis is my philosophy you just
have to get scrappy Right.
So, whatever it takes to notdrink or use, do it Whatever
that looks like for you.
So if you're not running 5K,who cares?
Go walk for 20 minutes, it'sthe same.
And so I think the comparisontrap of social media makes it
(11:54):
you're like I was bad atdrinking and now I'm bad at
recovery, like what the hell?
I am not good at either.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
Yeah, yeah, that's a great point.
I agree with you wholeheartedlythere.
The early days are reallydifficult because you start
questioning to your pointeverything about your identity.
Who am I going to show up as atthis work outing?
Who am I going to show up aswhen I've had a rough day?
And I need to be super momwithout that crutch, these toxic
(12:22):
coping strategies that we use,and alcohol for me was my choice
, my number one cheerleaderthere for me anytime.
And so you change, the peoplethat you're around, the places
that you go, the things that youdo, but not tomorrow.
Tomorrow, in the early stages,is like I'm just trying to get
(12:43):
through today and I'll be notdrinking today, and then I'll
probably make the same choicetomorrow, but I'm not like
outrunning a marathon to yourpoint, like I haven't quite
transitioned there yet.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
And so social media I guess you're right perpetuates
this idea that you stop drinking, and then, all of a sudden,
there's this blissful transitioninto all of these great
activities and it's like yeah ittakes time and and I, even
today, just posted a video of amontage of the things that I do
now, right, sure, but I did avoiceover and I talk about, like
(13:16):
the, the experience of it, butthis is 10 years later.
This is not what you shouldexpect tomorrow.
Later, this is not, right whatyou should expect tomorrow.
Um, yeah, so that first yearwas just all of these first,
first, first, and, and then evenlike, what do I do?
Speaker 3 (13:31):
with my hands like at a party like what do I?
Speaker 2 (13:34):
how do I talk to people?
Speaker 1 (13:36):
yeah, yeah, you know that's like all the social
skills like for I was like alittle child, like people, like
what's up I'm like good you knowyeah you're so right, yeah, I
remember, greg, you would talkabout like going to a happy hour
for the first time and sweatingand being like I I just didn't
(13:58):
know how to behave like I wasn'tsweating because I was having
withdrawal.
I was sweating because I hadsocial anxiety so thick that I
didn't know how to show up inthat situation.
Speaker 3 (14:08):
Yeah, like two weeks after hard stop had a.
You know I'm a loan officer fora bank and meeting with my
whole team and in the past itwas by drinks and shots and I
looked at myself as theringleader of that, you know, as
a good and making sureeveryone's nice, and buzzed at
630.
We got to get get rocked, youknow and it was like water and
(14:30):
I'm like, yeah, you know, it wasjust so intense.
I'm like, wow, this is crazybecause you're like you said
it's the first.
I mean I started drinkingprobably around 16 and, you know
, just never experienced what itwas like to be a grown-ass man
without a drink.
Yeah, it's wild.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
That's a great segue.
I know that a lot of your focushas been on mental health as
well, and your books that you'vewritten have been about helping
teens explore coping strategiesor being able to communicate
with their parents and helpingparents communicate with their
kids.
Can you speak a little bitabout that and what you've
learned in all of your years ofyour education background and
(15:12):
how that's kind of applied toyour own journey in this?
Speaker 2 (15:16):
Yeah, I mean, I was a high school teacher for 10
years and then I was a highschool assistant principal and
then I worked in therapeuticschools for a long time building
therapeutic programs for kidswith typically co-occurring
disorders so mental health andaddiction, you know but on the
educational side.
(15:36):
So how do these kids stillaccess education in school and
keep going?
So what that did for me was itreally showed me the the worst
case scenario often, where theproblem has been addressed at
the, at the late stages, whereit's very intense and very
dramatic and very expensive.
So really what I wanted to dowas like get to a place where
(16:01):
people were having uncomfortableconversations now, rather than
waiting to the end and spendinglike a hundred thousand dollars
on treatment Right, whenoftentimes this could have been
very easily addressed in a wholelot of discomfort.
But in the comparison betweenthe two, um could have been
easily addressed.
When you talk to your kidsabout drugs, it doesn't make
(16:23):
them do drugs.
When you talk to your kidsabout sex, it doesn't make them
have sex.
Like when you talk to your kidsabout mental health, it's not
going to like make themdepressed.
These are all things that weneed to be addressing in real
time, proactively, unemotionally, kind of non-dramatically, so
that they're not, they don'tbecome these big manifestations
(16:44):
later.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
Yeah, I love that.
I feel like my eyes were opento that, as I was able to be
more honest with myself when Istopped drinking, about the
choices that I was making andwhat they were driven by.
It completely reframed how Iparent and the conversations
that we have with our kids, asthey've become teenagers, around
these topics in a way that I'mnot sure I would have been able
(17:07):
to do if I weren't practicingthat brutal honesty with myself
that comes along with thedecision to get real about my
coping mechanism.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
Right, and it's not like every parent who drinks has
a drinking problem, right, butit's.
There is something to be said.
It's pretty hard to talk toyour kids about their mental
health and their coping skillsIf you, as an adult, don't
address yours.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
Right.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
And so I think that's why a lot of parents don't is
because there's this shame orthe reality that you're going to
have to actually look in themirror and have some hard
conversations with yourself,because if you're, you know
smoking a bowl every night andthen you tell Tommy like hey, no
weed.
He's going to be.
Like you know, fuck you, yousmoke weed.
(17:56):
You know, so it's just thisweird.
You know discomfort, but I canguarantee you, working in that
really elevated setting, it'snot as uncomfortable as having a
kid overdose or or try to taketheir own life or self-harm or,
you know, have a psychotic break.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
Yeah, I can't even imagine.
I feel very grateful that we,you know we had our own
struggles and awful situationsthat I think everyone probably
experiences Not everyone, that'sthat's too big of a blanket
statement but a lot of peopleexperience and maybe write off
until you start reflecting on itin a in a different light.
But I'm grateful you know thatwe kind of broke that cycle
(18:37):
early in our kids lives and havehandled it differently, because
I just can't imagine especiallythe responsibility that comes
along with that.
as a parent, you feelresponsible for everything and
that that's a very heavy one.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
Um for sure.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
Did you, in your experience, feel any trepidation
about sharing this part of yourjourney Um?
Speaker 2 (19:01):
I did not share about it for a long time and actually
I didn't tell anybody beyond mywife and my therapist for like
six months and then I didn't sayanything publicly.
Actually, I was outed sort ofas being sober on a podcast.
I was outed sort of as beingsober on a podcast and I went on
(19:23):
a podcast with a friend wholived in Texas and he's a big
author, educator, and I went totalk about education, right,
because that was really what Iwas known for.
Was this kind of intersectionof mental health, substance
abuse really actually justmental health and education?
The substance abuse I hadn'treally talked about because I
didn't want to talk about it.
(19:44):
And then on the podcast he justasked a question like oh, tell
me about your sobriety.
And in that moment I had tomake a choice like oh, do I say
like, oh, I don't want to talkabout that, or do I just like go
for it?
And I just went for it.
So that was not until probably2018, maybe, yeah.
(20:09):
So a few years, a few years,yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
When we first stopped drinking.
It's received differently by alot of people, and I'm sure you
have experienced that as well.
People aren't sure how torespond.
I feel like it does one of twothings makes them reflect on
their own choices in a way thatthey feel like they have to kind
of defend, even though youweren't trying to make them feel
that way, or that they kind ofask you like you don't drink at
(20:33):
all and you're like then youfeel the responsibility to
explain yourself.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
Right, you have to just, like sober, explain them.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
Yeah, sober, explain.
That's great.
So that's probably a prettyrelatable type of response that
people have when they firststart talking about being sober.
My choice doesn't have anythingto do with anybody else's
choice, and my choice does notmean that I'm judging other
people, but it still feels thatway sometimes and so that's why
I love your content so much,because you're so brave and
authentic in the way that youshare it, that it doesn't feel
(21:06):
judgmental.
It doesn't feel like you haveto be defensive about it.
You're just literally sayinglike this was my choice and this
is how it's impacted me, and Ithink it's interesting to hear
that you had some trepidationaround it.
I was curious just inresearching you, like if you
were bashful for lack of abetter word because of your
education career, if peoplewould you know.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
So yeah, I mean, I for sure.
Yeah, cause I quit drinking in2015, but I didn't quit my job
at the high school until the endof 2016.
So, all of 2015, all of 2016,.
Maybe some people knew, but Ididn't talk about it.
Absolutely I didn't want to belike having people second guess
(21:49):
every decision I had made or youknow, any choice I had made.
And I didn't drink at work.
I am proud of that.
I am proud of that because Idrank a lot of places but I
didn't drink at work.
Yeah, but for sure, there wasthis like sort of moral high
ground that I felt like I had tomaintain to keep my credibility
(22:10):
, and certainly now, as anentrepreneur, I don't give a
shit what people?
think, and I don't make contentto sell anything I don't have a
click funnel, I don't have a, Idon't have anything.
So it's just like.
This is just.
I'm just saying what I want tosay.
And some people have maincharacter syndrome where they
(22:33):
want to make it about them andthey get into comments and they
get really aggressive or they'relike the sober police and
they're like that's not correct.
But I don't like that stuffused to really bother me, but
now I'm just like, okay, blockand bless.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
Block and bless.
I love that too, not doing it.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
I'm not here to convince you.
I don't care Like don't gethammered.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
And the people that you're resonating with and the
people that you're impacting inthe way that they need is louder
.
It's way stronger than thepeople who want to show up and
be keyboard police or whatever.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
Yeah, and that's where I had to like really
remind myself why does our braindo that?
Like you can have a hundredpositive comments and one
negative, and then the brain islike oh my God, I'm the worst.
Like you start looking at thatperson's profile and you want to
like dissect their like bio andfigure out what fuck you brad
like yeah, um, but I don't, Ijust, it just doesn't matter
(23:30):
anymore I've got a question.
Speaker 3 (23:31):
Um, you mentioned therapy.
Was that something that youstarted in parallel with with
quitting drinking?
Speaker 2 (23:39):
for sure.
Yeah, okay, yeah.
But I had been in therapy for awhile before that, but mostly
just to like I would say tomyself and to my wife, like I'm
only drinking because I have allthis trauma from my childhood
and from growing up and andthat's why, right, so let me go
(24:01):
to therapy and like, once I workthrough it, I'm sure I'll be
able to quit, right?
So I really didn't start themeaningful work, I think, until
after I was sober, becauseobviously then you're just stuck
in your feelings and so youhave to get them out.
Speaker 3 (24:18):
Yeah, yeah that's I think you know as a listener out
there, listen to this episode.
They might be like, well, I'vethought about quitting or I want
to quit, but it's so scary.
But just knowing that you yourstory, I know.
For us, our story, we'vedefinitely leaned on
professional help and, quitehonestly, without having that
(24:40):
there, I don't know that I wouldhave been able to see it
through and be sitting here 10years later, not only therapy
but also having like one of mybest friend was also going
through NA at the time, so hewas kind of feeding me the
crucial mindset shifting thingsof like one foot into yesterday,
one foot into tomorrow, you'repissing all over today, kind of
(25:01):
stuff Totally yeah, becauseyou're always in your head.
You're like, well, I can, can't.
I got a thing coming up nextweek.
I got a drink.
I'm not going to drink at that,and I love christmas ales and
it's christmas time.
I'm not going to drink those.
You know and you're like rightjust what do you need to do
today, today, today, today rightthe future tripping the future
yeah you know, I, I have peoplewho want to quit drinking.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
They're like, yeah, but like like, when my daughter
gets married, like, and I'mdoing the champagne toast, I'm
like, bro, your daughter's eightyou know, and if you don't stop
drinking and you justcompletely fuck up her life,
then is she going to be healthyenough to even get to that phase
(25:41):
of life, right?
So, like, get over yourself,yeah, yeah, then is she going to
be healthy enough to even getto that phase of life.
Right so like get over yourself, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
Yeah, and Greg, you mentioned about our friend in
the support system.
Um, Daniel, you've mentionedabout your wife being the only
person who knew for a while.
Uh, can you talk a little bitabout the importance of having a
strong support system?
We talk a lot about supportivespouses, but in this situation,
you know who you can lean onyour therapist and why.
(26:10):
That's a driving force andbeing able to continue each day.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
Well, I mean, I I think that the the initial
support of a spouse or partneror whatever family is, is good,
but it's not.
It's not the only thing, andit's actually not lasting,
because my wife does not have anunhealthy relationship with
alcohol.
You know, she is a little bitof a psychopath, Like she can
have like a few sips of wine andset the glass down and not
(26:36):
finish it at dinner and you'rejust like, I'm just like finish
it know sometimes I'll be likeI'm not leaving until you finish
that, um, but so she just, youknow she has the, the, the
sympathy, but not the empathy.
I guess because she's not beenin, that she doesn't understand
it in the in the way that that Ido, and that's not her fault
(26:57):
and it shouldn't be myexpectation that she assumes
that role.
Sure, right.
So finding a therapist thatspecializes in addiction, or
finding a community group andpeople have a lot of feelings
about AA or NA, or but I'mtelling you, right now there's
like I could rattle off like 15online support groups right now
(27:17):
that are recovery, like agnostic, right, they don't subscribe to
any sort of doctrine andthey're great right.
Just having any kind of personin the ring with you is super
important to making it last.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
Yeah, I feel very grateful that we did this
together, greg, but I also knowthat in your situation it is
possible with a spouse or ourparents who still drink around
us, and we weren't necessarilyuncomfortable with that.
I just feel like it's great tohave a support system, because
we get in our own head and wefall back into these bad habits
and these associative habitsthat sometimes it's helpful to
(27:56):
have someone there to be likehey, remember why you're doing
this, or oh for sure, yeah, yeah, or you, you know, if you're.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
The other thing that was you know is horrifying, was
horrifying to me and horrifyingto a lot of people was that, um,
you know, like getting newfriends, like what about my old
friends?
And then you sort of like phasesome people out and you face
some new people in, and that'sdoesn't have to be dramatic and
(28:23):
it doesn't have to be, um, youknow, right away, but if you're
not like shedding people, you'renot growing Right, and if
people aren't shedding you,you're probably not growing,
unless you're just like a dick.
But, like you know, likethere's going to be times where
you're going to kind of moveaway, and so the people that I'm
friends with now on a likedaily basis or socially are not
(28:45):
the same people that I had in mylife 10 years ago.
And but if, if I saw them, Iwould be, it would be great and
probably still connected onsocial media.
Mostly, you know, like it's not, it doesn't have to be this
thing.
So I know a lot of people fearlike, well, what about my
friends?
And well, you know what aboutyour friends?
Speaker 1 (29:04):
Like, yeah, for the most part, I feel like our
friends were at first kind oflike are you guys serious, Cause
we were pretty, you know,pretty big life of the party.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
Yeah, we were lots of fun yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
And then it was kind of like oh, you guys are serious
and then super supportive, andin fact some of them have said,
you know, I've been inspired byyour journey to reflect upon my
own and that makes it all feelreally great.
And not from a judgmentstandpoint or, like you said,
I'm not trying to bring anyonealong with me or help them make
decisions or changes in theirlife, I'm just being me and
that's why I think I'm so drawnto you and how real you are.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
Where I've landed in my messaging and I appreciate
the kindness and affirmation isa derivative, though, of having
landed in a very big kind ofhero complex in like 2020,
during like, when I got reallybig on TikTok and a huge TikTok
platform which I which I don'thave anymore I deleted TikTok
about I don't know almost a yearago, I think, and I had a few
(30:06):
hundred thousand followers andthen I started running these
free groups and then you couldpay to be in the group and it
was like this kind of feeling,like I had to save everyone and
and I had to maintain this senseof like everything's good all
the time in my content right,never showing, never showing up,
like fuck, this is so hard.
(30:27):
And this is what happened, likeit was always really intentional
to try to like boost everyoneup and in 2023, I ended up in a
outpatient program fordepression Because I was so
emotionally exhausted.
I was just laying on the floorof our living room like I
stopped working.
(30:47):
I just like I could notfunction.
I could not function, so I hadto go.
I didn't have to.
I chose to go to.
This program is all day foreight weeks and it was like
therapeutic summer camp, likeall these people.
It was so fun, um, it was sohard, but it was great, um.
So I think now my one of myother messages to people is like
(31:08):
don't, you, don't have to saveanyone.
You, you really actually youcan't save anyone.
That's right.
So don't even try.
Like if they want to kind offollow your, your suggestion, or
they want to follow like theway that you live your life,
perfect, but it's not your job,nor is it like your ego's job to
be some fucking Messiah topeople who are in recovery or
(31:34):
thinking about it.
So I really try to be like takeit or leave it.
This is my message, this is mytruth.
I have good days and bad daysand I get a lot of DMS.
I get a lot of DMS that aresuper, you know, raw, let's say,
and I used to take time toreally like try to thoughtfully
reply and like encourage and youcan do, I.
I just I don't do it anymore.
(31:56):
Really, like some people, yeah,if, but I don't you know I
don't respond to the like reallypouty kind of victimy messages.
Speaker 1 (32:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:06):
It's not my job.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
That's right, and you have established that boundary
for yourself in a way that keepsyou healthy, which is extremely
important.
Yeah, um, I so many things thatyou said that I can relate to
and that I have questions about.
10 years later, or almost 10years later, for me, I still
have moments where I'm like if Iwere a drinker, I'd be almost
there by now.
(32:28):
It's noon, I'm with my kids, orit's a holiday and I'm over it.
Do you experience that, andwhat are some of the things that
you've learned along the way,tools that you lean on in those
moments all these years later?
Speaker 2 (32:40):
Well, yeah, I mean, what's so funny that there's the
opposite?
It's like when I was a drinkeractor drinker I was a very rigid
school schedule.
You know, like very, you haveno decision-making power about
your schedule, right.
But now I'm an entrepreneur andI just launched a new, a new
startup a few months ago whichI'm just at home working on and
(33:03):
I don't have to be anywhere.
You know, I don't have to beanywhere, so I have to make
myself have to be somewhere, orhave to have now having kids, or
have to have Now having kidscertainly helps, right, because
I do like get up, get them readyfor school, pack the lunches,
take them to school, pick themup from school, coach their
teams.
But I, you know, I go to the gyma few times a week with some
buddies and I go for a walkevery day and I try to, you know
(33:26):
, stay busy.
Like yesterday my wife was outof town with one of our kids and
so I had another.
My oldest was with a friend andthen my youngest was with a
friend.
So I was like I'm all by myself, like this would have been
prime drinking season.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
So I cleaned my house .
Speaker 2 (33:43):
I cleaned.
Speaker 3 (33:44):
I did the laundry.
Speaker 2 (33:45):
I did some rage cleaning.
I didn't actually want to drink, but I just knew like that was
would have been the perfectstorm of drunk daniel be like
nfl playoff game the universeclearly wants me to get drunk,
like yeah, it's sunday it'ssunday, fun day, bro.
(34:05):
Well and it was raining heretoo so that's even more like oh,
it never rains here Better getthe whiskey out.
Speaker 1 (34:14):
Always a reason, that is for sure.
Yeah, it's like embarrassing tothink about some of the lies
that I told myself about why Ineeded to drink, and some of
them that I still have to talkmyself off the ledge about all
these years later.
Kind of to your point at thebeginning of like it doesn't
just happen overnight.
So what advice would you givesomeone who is doing dry January
(34:35):
or someone who is, you know,considering what life without
alcohol might look like?
But it's scary.
You're on the mountaintop andyou've got the microphone in
your hand.
What's your best line of advicefor them?
Speaker 2 (34:48):
I mean, I would just say don't get a case of the
forevers right.
Like you don't have nothing isforever.
So if you decide to take abreak, like it's just a break,
like, as my older daughter wouldsay to me, it's not that deep,
it's not that deep, right so?
But what I will say is that Ithink every adult should give
(35:10):
themselves the opportunity atleast to experience life without
alcohol for long enough to knowthe difference and the second
half of that sentence is the bigpart of that sentence.
Long enough to know thedifference is not 31 days,
because if you're just doing adry January, which is
(35:32):
commendable, but you'reliterally just counting down the
days and in your brain you'relike February 1st getting
hammered, you know.
So you just have this threemonths.
Maybe you could start to tellsix months, for sure you know
that's when you would then sayokay, am I going to go back or
not?
And I think the typical patternfor a lot of people that I
(35:55):
experience is they go.
I did three months maybe, and Ihaven't managed.
I'm just going to drink like,put all the rules back in, but
make it bigger.
Yeah, only on weekends, neveralone, only with with people,
never at home, like that'sexactly what I did, yeah yeah,
you try to rearrange the chairslike on the titanic, right like
(36:18):
it, just it's not working.
And so then the second timeyou're like oh okay, yeah, but
people have to learn that ontheir own.
Yeah, and you really can't.
I think you can quit drinkingfor somebody else, but you have,
you can only stay sober foryourself yeah which is which is
weird.
Um, so a lot of people will getultimatums or you know, a health
(36:38):
scare, like me, and you're justlike okay, I'm gonna stop,
because the doctor told me andmy wife was like what the fuck?
And I'm like and so I'm gonnastop because I have to yeah,
yeah but then month two was like.
No, I kind of want to eventhough I don't.
I'm 50, 50, you know.
And then eventually I tookownership of it.
Speaker 1 (36:58):
Yeah, Would you say that month two is accurate for
you?
That's when you feel like youkind of wanted to Well yeah, I
wanted.
Speaker 2 (37:05):
I was well, I was afraid to drink.
Yeah, so I was, it was fear.
Well, I was afraid to drink,yeah, so it was fear, but at
least it was my own Sure.
You know, I had proven quoteproven that I'm not an alcoholic
, I can quit drinking.
But I think what I reallyproved was that I actually was
an alcoholic, because it was sohard and you know, I just had
this big calendar, like a schoolcalendar, up on my kitchen and
(37:29):
I would cross off with a blueSharpie every day that I didn't
drink.
Speaker 1 (37:33):
Really.
Speaker 2 (37:33):
Yeah, I did that for months, probably like six months
.
Wow, like a huge tabletop, onethat's meant to go on the big
principal's desk, I like rippedit off and I put it up on the
wall.
Wow, but no one we didn't haveanyone over, so no one knew.
Speaker 1 (37:47):
No one could see that .
Yeah Well, as a woman, I hadquit drinking when I was
pregnant and I was also aprofessional bodybuilder for a
short time and I could quitwhile I was training.
So of course I didn't have aproblem.
I can quit whenever I want to,if I feel like I have a reason
to Sure.
But then when the real timecame and it was time for me to
(38:08):
reevaluate kind of thatrelationship and who I show up
as it was like very easy for meto see that, like you said, I
probably had a little more of aproblem than I would have ever
given given credit to duringthat time when I when I couldn't
see it that way- Well andthat's the other part I think
about early recovery is that ifyou're me, you tried to
(38:30):
sugarcoat it, so I was alwaysintentional about making it seem
easier than it was to peoplearound me, because if I said it
was so hard, then I was justlike proving everything right
that I had such a problem.
That makes sense.
Speaker 2 (38:46):
By minimizing the struggle of initial recovery, I
was hiding how deep the problemwas for me.
Speaker 1 (38:53):
Yes, yes.
Speaker 3 (38:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:56):
Now that you say that , if I reflect upon, like my
initial months, I definitely Idid that to myself and not just
for myself but for everyone elsearound me, I think, to make
them comfortable with mydecision.
Speaker 2 (39:08):
You don't want to make them too uncomfortable.
Oh, it's fine, everything'sgood.
Speaker 1 (39:11):
And then you're like in your car, like like yeah,
I've had people reach out aboutthis, you know, not, not like it
sounds like you have wherethey're pouring their heart out
to me and I'm not sure I wouldbe ready to handle that, but in
a way where it's like I didn'tdrink for two weeks and I didn't
really feel a difference and Ijust I commend them for their
(39:34):
approach.
But I agree with you that ittakes so much longer to really
get to the root of what you'refeeling and why you feel that
way.
Speaker 2 (39:41):
to kind, of make that decision.
If you have the need to sendthat message, then you don't
actually feel that way, rightthen?
You don't actually feel thatway Right, because somebody who
doesn't drink for two weeks anddoesn't care does not send a
message telling someone thatthey didn't drink for two weeks.
Speaker 1 (39:59):
Right, it's just not even a thing.
It's not even a thing.
Speaker 2 (40:02):
Like if I asked my wife like, oh, when's the last
time you had a drink?
She would be like I have noidea, Right.
Speaker 1 (40:07):
She literally wouldn't know.
Speaker 2 (40:09):
If you had asked me like, oh, I haven't had a drink
in three days, like, I wouldknow, like, and I'd be so proud
of it and it would be this bigthing.
But that's not how normalpeople and I don't say normal,
like we're different in theirnormal, but normies is what you
know, kind of a street name forpeople who don't drink is or who
don't have a drinking problemnormies.
(40:30):
They just don't think aboutthose things.
Speaker 1 (40:33):
I've never heard that before.
Speaker 2 (40:34):
Normies.
Is that?
Speaker 1 (40:35):
like a West Coast thing.
I guess that's what we callpeople who don't have a drinking
problem.
Speaker 2 (40:39):
normies, Normies.
People will be like, oh, doesyour wife drink?
And I say, no, she's a normie.
Speaker 1 (40:44):
Okay, that's great.
I love that I do want to askyou about what your new venture
is.
You've mentioned it a couple oftimes, about being an
entrepreneur and working on aproject.
Is that something you'd shareand talk?
Speaker 2 (40:56):
about.
Yeah, I mean it's.
We're open for business.
So I started a company calledknown at home and or known for
short, and it pairs adolescentsubstance testing so instant
drug test, instant alcohol test,instant nicotine test with
(41:17):
intensive parent education.
So when you buy a test it comeswith access to a parent
platform.
That's all of this curatedcontent by licensed clinical
psychologists trying to help youunderstand the why behind the
what right.
So like, maybe don't just groundtimmy because he's you know,
(41:39):
white girl wasted at homecoming.
Why don't you actually figureout, maybe, why he's drinking?
Is he anxious, is he depressed?
Was it just like a, like a oneand done Cause he was peer
pressure or whatever?
So what I understood about,like you know, working in in
treatment is there's a lot oftesting.
There's a lot of drug testingthat's available, but nothing
came with any kind of parentsupport.
(42:00):
So I wanted to make somethingthat was high quality, low cost
and highly like, enriched witheducation.
So it's a lot of mental healtharticles and how to support and
what to do when, and talkingpoints, things like that.
So I'm really excited about it.
Speaker 1 (42:19):
Amazing Congratulations.
Speaker 2 (42:21):
I mean, that's just such a beautiful transition from
your own background your ownjourney and marrying them
together to provide resources,your own journey and marrying
them together to provideresources.
Natural, yeah, and you know not, over 90% of adult addicts
start using under 18.
Speaker 1 (42:36):
Yeah, that's huge.
Speaker 2 (42:38):
So you know, but you know, parent everyone can do
whatever they want, but I wantedto if, if people are going to
have or test their kids, I wantthem to be empowered with the
correct tools to you can test.
But then what you know?
Speaker 1 (42:55):
what do you do with that?
What do you do with that?
Speaker 2 (42:56):
What do you do with that information?
Yeah, absolutely Imperative tobeing able to make meaningful
change, versus just kind oftreat the symptom or the
situation and then and maybecreate a little healthy paranoia
in your children, um children,so that they don't start using
at an early age, because everyyear that they don't use they're
less likely to have anunhealthy relationship with that
(43:19):
substance.
Speaker 1 (43:21):
What are the conversations like if you don't
mind me asking that you havewith your kids?
Are you there yet?
Are they still young enough?
Oh no, definitely.
Speaker 2 (43:29):
I mean, my kids know that I'm sober.
Obviously they're very aware ofthat.
Um, they can.
It's, it's a boundary, is notbubble wrap, right?
So I want my kids to be outinto the world, doing things,
being around things, but knowingthere's a line in the sand that
is defined because ambiguitywith teenagers does not work.
Speaker 1 (43:51):
It's the worst.
Speaker 2 (43:52):
No, it doesn't.
And again, it's hard.
It's hard because you want yourkids to like you and they want
to get you.
But if you get friend zoned byyour kids, you are, you're,
you're, you're screwed yeah.
Speaker 1 (44:06):
I would agree with that.
I think there it's a verydifficult, uh slippery slope to
manage between being anauthoritative figure and being
someone that they can confide infor sure.
Speaker 2 (44:18):
And I think and again , that's where I think the whole
lean of known is.
It's not punitive, yes, it'slive in information, not fear.
It's sort of having thesecourageous conversations again
to figure out the why behind thewhat.
Speaker 1 (44:33):
I love that so much.
I think that's has thepotential to help so many people
, especially as parents and asadults, when maybe we don't know
exactly what to do.
That's obviously the point.
But, like if you don't know howto approach these topics, you
just tend to stay away from them, Even if, even if you are sober
, even if you don't drink.
It still can be veryuncomfortable because
(44:54):
so-and-so's parents drink and Iwas at their house and they are
normies and they just had aglass of wine with dinner.
Why can't you guys do that?
Or what does it taste like?
Or you know?
Speaker 2 (45:06):
even, like you're my, if you have a kid and they're
best friends.
Parents don't care if theirbest friend drinks, right, but
you do.
So how do you navigate thatdynamic?
Speaker 1 (45:16):
Absolutely Resources to help people feel empowered
and armed with knowledge arounduncomfortable topics.
Speaker 2 (45:23):
Yeah, that paralysis by analysis, just it's not worth
it.
Speaker 1 (45:27):
Yeah, all right.
Speaker 2 (45:29):
Very good, thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (45:31):
Yeah, thank you so much for sharing all of your
experience and your insights.
Where can people go to findmore about you and and your new
venture?
Speaker 2 (45:41):
Patterson perspective is my handle and known at
homecom is the business.
Speaker 1 (45:49):
Amazing.
I will link those in the shownotes.
Thank you To all of youlisteners out there.
Thank you so much for joiningus.
If this resonated with you,please share it with a friend.
It takes away the stigma of notdrinking being a big, scary
monster and makes us.
Can we be normies too?
Speaker 2 (46:08):
Unfortunately not.
Speaker 1 (46:10):
That's not how that works.
It does kind of normalize theconversation around what to do
with alcohol, what not to dowith alcohol, what it means to
everyone and makes it not sodeep Not that deep, that's right
, thank you.
We have new episodes everyWednesday.
We hope you'll join us againsoon.
Thanks so much, Daniel.
(46:30):
Thanks, Greg.
Until next time.
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