April 2, 2025 • 51 mins
What if everything you've heard about relationships is wrong? In this myth-busting episode, we take on the conventional wisdom that might be quietly damaging your relationship. Using research from the Gottman Institute, we examine twelve relationship myths that sound reasonable but don't hold up under scientific scrutiny.
We tackle the dismissive idea that "marriage is just a piece of paper," revealing how this mindset undermines the living, breathing entity that requires constant nurturing. Perhaps most surprising is the truth about conflict—far from being a red flag, the absence of conflict often signals deeper problems of disengagement or one partner consistently subordinating their needs.
The myth that "love is enough" has devastated countless relationships where partners genuinely cared for each other but lacked the communication skills and practical tools to navigate life's challenges together. We share from personal experience how therapy transformed our marriage when catastrophe struck, and why fewer than 10% of divorcing couples ever speak with a professional before ending their relationship.
Our conversation gets particularly passionate around the stigma of therapy and how pride often prevents couples from seeking help until it's too late. As we discuss from our own journey, learning to communicate effectively about conflicts, past wounds, and different perspectives isn't intuitive—it's a skill set that most of us need guidance to develop.
Whether you're in a committed relationship or single, understanding these relationship myths provides valuable perspective on what actually creates lasting connection. Join us for this transformative conversation that might just change how you think about love, conflict, communication, and what it truly takes to build a relationship that thrives instead of merely survives.
If you're interested in learning more about healthy relationships, visit the Gottman Institute's website for research-based resources that can help you develop the skills needed for a thriving partnership.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello and welcome to the Cameo Show.
I'm your host, cameo, and weare joined by my favorite
husband and co-host.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
I'm the favorite husband.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
You know what I meant , mr Greg Braun, everybody.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Oh my gosh, I can't believe it's Wednesday already
and here we are with anotherexciting episode.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Every Wednesday.
Today, we're going to tacklesome of the biggest relationship
myths out there.
This information is courtesy ofthe Gottman Institute, which we
refer to a lot as we talk aboutrelationships and marriage, and
this is stuff that, like,you've probably heard a million
times, but some of it might notactually be true.
(00:41):
So we're going to go throughand kind of do a myth busters
kind of thing, like a true orfalse, true or trash kind of
thing, and I'll probably bewrong about all of them.
Well, we'll see, we'll see.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Can I start with the dad joke though?
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Oh gosh, yeah, please do.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
You're ready to just get right into it.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
Yeah, sorry about that.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
So why don't watermelons get married?
I don't know.
Because they cantaloupe.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
Very good, very good.
True or trash?
No, just kidding.
Number one, number onerelationship myth is that
marriage is just a piece ofpaper.
Yes or no?
True or false?
What are your thoughts?
Um well, it is a legal bindingcontract, I guess yeah, I
(01:34):
suppose between two people thatsays we're gonna be together and
if you leave me, I'm takinghalf your shit you know like
unless you have a prenup.
That's a whole, whole otherepisode.
I know nothing about prenups.
Yeah.
But I mean.
To me that begs the question oflike how do people view
marriage and the sanctity of itand the seriousness of it?
(01:54):
Like, oh, it's just a piece ofpaper, like I can just wad that
up and throw it in the trash andit's like well, that's probably
not the right way to view itand, based onman Institute, it
shouldn't be treated as suchyeah it's definitely a living,
breathing, functioning thing.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
It's like a, it's like a entity of itself that
needs love and care and yeah youknow, so it's definitely more
than just a piece of paper.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Yeah, we're moving on .
I don't like that one.
Yeah, but it's on the list, soI'm mentioning it.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
But number two Well, can I just say, it gets people
thinking past well, I'm married,so checklist, everything should
just kind of take care ofitself and it's like yeah,
that's just when the work begins, you know, yeah, well, I'm
married, so checklist,everything should just kind of
take care of itself and it'slike, yeah, that's just when the
work begins.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
Yeah, I think that's just kind of dependent on
whoever the person is, theirattitude toward almost anything
in life.
If marriage is just a piece ofpaper, you probably think the
stop sign is just a suggestion.
You know what I mean Kind oflaissez-faire about everything.
So I can appreciate that.
It's on the list, but we'removing on.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
We're moving on.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
Number two living alone with occasional
relationships is a lifestylechoice that is equivalent, in
terms of life outcomes, to beingmarried.
I don't really understand thatone don't either skip it I think
what they're saying is like ifyou choose to live alone, you
will live a healthy life, justas if you live with your spouse
(03:36):
or in a relationship where youhave another person as part of
your ecosystem.
And it says myth, like inepidemiology.
Social epidemiology shows thatpeople who live alone die sooner
, are less healthy, less wealthyand recover from illness slower
than people who are married,especially men yeah because they
(03:59):
have a worse social supportnetwork than women I could agree
with that.
I mean I can see the majority.
I'm not sure that that is ablanket statement for everyone.
I'm sure there are plenty ofpeople who live alone their
entire lifetime and are healthyand take care of themselves and
have a social network that'shealthy, and maybe there are
plenty of men who have healthysocial networks and women who
(04:22):
don't.
So grain of salt, but I guessas a majority I can see that one
.
Yeah, okay, number three thisone gets a little.
This one gets this one, youknow, gets a little loud.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
This one got you dancing I guess, so this one
gets a little.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
Well, anytime the word conflict is in the title,
it you know it starts making youthink a little bit, like it
starts cha-cha on.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
yeah, it means I'm gonna have an opinion about
something.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
Okay conflict, but true or false conflict is a sign
that you're in a badrelationship that's, that is
false is it?
Hold on a second are youflictis a sign that you're in a bad
relationship.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
That's false.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
Yeah, totally false.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
But I can see how people might view it that way,
that everything's great, wenever fight about anything,
everything's just hunky-dory,and that would basically
indicate that one persondominates and the other one just
submits to avoid conflict.
Or that neither care enough to,or there's not enough
(05:31):
engagement in the marriage Tocreate any friction?
Speaker 1 (05:33):
Yeah, yeah, conflict is inevitable in all
relationships.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
Yeah, that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
Because when we have a conflict, if we do it in a
healthy way which we've had tolearn how to do it helps me
understand you as a personbetter, Because there's a reason
that you think something,understand something a certain
way, feel a certain way that'sdifferent than me.
That causes conflict, becauseit's unfamiliar for me that you
(06:01):
get to parse through Like it'san opportunity to learn and be
curious.
More than anything, it's justour emotions get the best of us
sometimes and we argue as amarried couple.
You're making big decisions.
We're not always talking abouttrivial things either.
We're talking about bigdecisions about finances and
children and careers, andsometimes different ideas can
(06:24):
present, you know, a little bitof friction.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
Yeah, I think conflict as, as we have learned
on our journey, in the beginningof our relationship we just
didn't know how to deal witheach other.
We didn't know how to handleconflict and I didn't know how
to handle your energy and youdidn't know how to handle my,
and I didn't know how to handleyour energy and you didn't know
how to handle my energy.
And so you know, we did it thebest way we could, but that's
(06:50):
one of the things that going totherapy taught us was how to
communicate and deal withconflict.
That will inevitably come.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Right.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
As you said, life is full of big, big events and big
decisions, and when everything'shunky dory and there's no
issues, everything's fine.
But when the rubber hits theroad, that's when you get to see
the depth of the relationshipand find out like, oh my gosh,
how do we get through this?
Through this, and knowing howto communicate and handle
(07:30):
conflict has been a huge push inthe right direction for our
happiness and our and ourmarriage.
I can say, because then it'slike you have this confidence
about you that, like I don'tcare what is thrown in our lap
or what what comes up, we willget through it together.
We will, you know.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
and yeah, you learn to trust each other in a way
when you deal with conflictopenly and transparently,
because you recognize that theother person might have big
feelings or expectations thatare different than yours, but
that through practice andthrough evidence, you can always
seem to come to some sort ofcompromise or agreement.
(08:04):
You know this idea that oneperson always gets their way and
the other person just submits.
I mean, I guess, again,depending on the person, might
be what you're looking for, butin a healthy, balanced
relationship, marriage or anyrelationship for that matter,
you're going to come acrossthings that don't always line up
(08:24):
, that you have to learn to workthrough yeah and if you can't
communicate about them, yeah,dead in the water, like it's
going to show up conflict andfriction.
You better learn how tocommunicate about it, yeah, and
decide when it's worthcommunicating about it and when
it's not yeah yeah, what wasthat thing you sent me the other
day about?
Speaker 2 (08:40):
like I've eliminated a lot of conflict in my life by
recognizing that, unless someone, oh yeah, unless someone is
paying me to fix their problems,I don't need to chime in, I
don't need to voice my opinionabout it if they're not paying
me to yeah you know it's like,wow, that's a pretty freeing
statement, because how muchstuff do you worry about that?
Speaker 1 (09:03):
it's like there's nothing you can do about it, you
know yeah, and that may notpertain to a marriage or
relationship or a closerelationship, but also great
advice to live by, because it'slike everybody has an opinion.
It's just not always necessaryto share what that is yeah we've
talked about that a few times.
Yeah.
A whole episode about opinionsand assholes.
(09:25):
Yeah.
All right.
Number four moving on, true orfalse, I'm interested in what
you have to say about this.
One Love is enough.
False why.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
You could be in love and willing to do whatever it
takes.
Why you could be in love andwilling to do whatever it takes.
But if the other party is justunavailable and they don't want
the same thing, then it reallydoesn't matter.
You have to have.
It's a buy-in on both sides.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
Yeah, you're probably right and according to the
Gottman Institute, you are.
Love is enough is a myth,because in most marriages and
relationships, people arecourting each other,
romanticizing each other, andthen life happens, baby comes,
career changes, big stuff, andyou love each other, you care
(10:20):
about each other, but the otherstuff gets in the way and then
roommate syndrome kicks in oryour marriage starts to feel
like a checklist.
So that doesn't mean you don'tlove each other.
It just means that the otherthings are no longer in focus
and not being tended to, andthose things can be enough to
break a marriage if they're notworked on, even if you still
(10:40):
love each other.
Yeah, love is a feeling andthese other things.
Are our effort right enough tobreak a marriage if they're not
worked on, even if you stilllove each other?
Speaker 2 (10:44):
yeah love is a feeling and yeah these other
things are our effort right yeah, you can love your, your garden
and have you know this bigfantasy and vision about it, but
if you don't tend to it andweed it and you know, put good,
good stuff out there and makesure it's always being watered,
it's not gonna thrive right it'snot gonna yield any crops I
(11:09):
like to believe that you know,love can heal everything and I I
do somewhat, but I just thinkthat love is probably the
foundation for the work yeahthat has to ensue.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
Love is what keeps you focused on making sure you
do the work.
But if you don't do the work,love will not keep it there.
Keep it together.
What is love?
Baby don't hurt me.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
Oh, no, no.
But what is love to?
Speaker 1 (11:41):
you Love is a feeling of safety and confidence and
energy yeah, yeah, it'sdefinitely a feeling right yeah,
just isn't that wild yeah, andit's interesting when you ask
that question, I am not evensure how to answer it and I
would because it's a gut feeling.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
There are no words, right, you know.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
We say it, we use that word so much Love you, I
love you, I love that.
Oh my God, that's so great.
I love that.
I love coffee.
Well, what do you mean?
You love it.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
Yeah, wow, some things you love, some things you
don't like, you hate.
It's all just a feeling thatyou get, so it's kind of
interesting.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
Now I'm stuck on what is love.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
Baby, don't hurt me.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
Yeah, joke number two , you snuck one in there.
Okay, number five Talking aboutpast emotional wounds will only
make them worse.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
And I can see how that would be.
People would think that's true,but I would say that that's
definitely false.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
False, according to the Gottman Institute.
Again, all subjective to whatpeople's perspective is for sure
and I can agree with you.
I can see where that could betrue that it only makes it worse
.
but in a healthy relationshipkind of back to that
communication conversation Ican't understand where you're
coming from, especially whenit's coming from an old wound
(13:16):
that maybe has nothing to dowith me but gets projected onto
me if we don't communicate aboutit, if I don't understand where
you're coming from and why, andthen when I do, and vice versa
in our marriage and we don'talways get there really quickly.
Sometimes this is like anongoing evolution, not sometimes
all the time.
(13:37):
You know we're constantlylearning and evolving.
But when I finally dounderstand where you're coming
from, it's a lot easier to seeyou with empathy and compassion
than it is frustration and angerand contention.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
Yeah, you know, when you talk to somebody, you're
talking to their triggers.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
They're having emotional reactions and
responses to things that you say.
You could bring up a topicthat's very sensitive to
somebody and they immediately gointo the red zone, you know as
an example.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
Yeah, that's a visceral reaction, sometimes too
, where people don't even knowtheir body is just doing it.
Like we had something come uprecently and we were talking
about like knowing andunderstanding and being able to
think about it and talk yourselfthrough it, but also, at the
same time, like your body knows,like your body feels it, and
that's a visceral reaction wherepeople maybe start sweating or
(14:28):
yeah start feeling that likerage build up and they're cork,
ready to pop yeah and they don'taren't in control of it.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
It's not a conscious thing, it's yeah it's a
subconscious deeply rootedthat's why this is all so hard,
because it's all like science,it's all.
Yeah, it's all kind of likeprimitive feelings and um, but
the whole point of being safe,talking about old wounds and old
traumas is because that way youcan work through it in the
(14:58):
future if something comes up.
I mean it's not like you'rejust reliving these things just
to do it it's like.
It's the same as like.
If you owned a business, you'dbe like where be like?
Where are my potential issues?
Or deficiencies or what happenedin the past that I need to be
cognizant of, and that's a verysafe thing to be, like any
successful business person wouldbe like.
(15:18):
Yeah, a very valid question.
I'm always asking myself whatam I missing here?
What am I missing here?
But why wouldn't you feel thatway about your marriage?
Like, what am I missing hereTalking about these things?
Speaker 1 (15:30):
Well, because feelings and emotions are
vulnerable and they're also verypersonal.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
Yeah, but it's like it seems so obvious that you
would want to and not bury yourhead in the sand.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
I think sometimes people want to.
They just maybe don't know howto.
Yeah, we didn't Well exactly,so we literally went and learned
, I mean, and even went andlearned I mean, and even still
to this day and are learning.
Yeah, it's like hard.
Conversations are always hard.
You might get a little betterat approaching them, but they're
always hard yeah andunderstanding our own emotions
(16:00):
is very difficult, sounderstanding our spouse's
emotions is even more so, right?
I mean talking about pastwounds is a healthy thing.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
Absolutely, and you know you're getting to a good
place when you can talk aboutpast wounds and they don't
trigger you and you don't feelanything about them.
It's just like talking about aNetflix show you watched last
night and it doesn't become apersonal tragedy that you've
experienced.
That's growth.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
Yeah, I also think.
Just one more thing that poppedinto my mind there is that,
like it's really difficultsometimes to recognize in
ourselves when we're beingtriggered by something that
hurts us.
So if our spouse is aware ofthat existing maybe not in the
moment, but even at another timeit would be helpful and is
often appropriate to bring thatup and say, like you know, maybe
(16:49):
you were having that reactionbecause, remember that time you
shared with me about thishappening, or this person said
this, or even from yourchildhood, that your spouse then
is able to say, maybe that'swhat made you feel that way in
that situation, and then you'reable to disconnect from it
emotionally a little bit andlook at it with a little bit
more like separation anddistance and be like oh yeah,
wow, okay bit and look at itwith a little bit more like
separation and distance and belike oh yeah, wow Okay.
(17:11):
That was reminiscent of thattime.
But if your spouse was unawareof those types of things that
were impactful for you, youmight continue on being
frustrated.
Your spouse is frustratedbecause we don't understand why
this is happening or why itkeeps happening.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
You're just like why can't you be normal?
Speaker 1 (17:29):
That every wife to every husband.
No, I'm just kidding.
All right, I like this one.
I think you could do an entireepisode on this one.
True or false.
Better relationships are onesin which people are more
independent and less needy ofone another.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Okay, say that again.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
Better relationships are the ones where people are
more independent of and lessneedy of one another.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
I mean, I feel like that's just preference.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
We could talk about this for an hour, because I
think you can get into theconversation of interdependence
in one another versuscodependence in one another.
You can talk about beingindependent and still having
your own space and time toexplore your own hobbies, but
then also being like, respectfuland connected to your spouse in
(18:27):
ways that seemingly compromiseyour independence.
Yeah.
You know so Gottman Institutesays in great relationships
people try to meet each other'sneeds and they adopt the motto
when you're hurting baby, theworld stops.
And I listen.
So more of a like we're a teamand that interdependence is a
(18:52):
what a relationship is all about.
that in a healthy relationship,we flow and it's not about
maintaining my individuality somuch so that it causes a wedge
yeah it's healthy to have yourown things, sure, but I feel
like again, in my opinion and II'm curious what yours is here
but like that, if left unchecked, can cause a lot of conflict
(19:18):
and friction, because one personthen kind of inadvertently
deems their independence ortheir preferences or their
interests as more important thanthe relationship or it
completely ignores that therelationship is also its own
living, breathing thing yeah, Ijust think it, that one comes
back to balance and common sense, because what's right for me
(19:41):
might not be right for thisother person or this other
person, and as long as I'mtaking care of you're taking
care of you and we take care ofthe marriage.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
Those are the three things that, when those are all
happy and healthy and insynchronicity, things just
happen and flow and there'snothing that we can't get
through and deal with.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
But the central message of what you just said is
that you treat the marriagelike it has its own separate
needs, and you're not justfocused on maintaining your
independence, you're focused onmaking sure that everything
flows, which is interdependenceupon each other.
Codependence is a completelyseparate conversation and topic,
(20:31):
but we talk about this often.
We spend all the time together.
We work together, we work outtogether, we parent together, we
drive together.
We are together almost all thetime, but I still feel very
independent in my thinking andin the things that I enjoy doing
, and I just feel very luckythat I get to do a lot of those
(20:52):
with you, that we share the sameinterests where to an outsider
or in some cases it iscodependence, where, like I,
can't do things without youversus choosing to and again
preference.
Yeah, I think if someone isreally extremely needy and that
falls into that codependence,like you need me, you're, you're
(21:16):
expecting me to carry a lot ofheavy, the heavy parts of this
relationship, that that's amajor, you know, point of
contention for people becauseit's too much pressure.
So I would say that a betterrelationship is one where people
are less needy but not in theway of like being shut down and
not open with each other.
(21:37):
Yeah, back to flow.
Flow feels like the right wordfor that.
Yeah, for that one, these arelike kind of heavy.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
That's a heavy one.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
Some of them are kind of dumb too, like this one
feels dumb to me, ready Numberseven.
Some of them are kind of dumbtoo, like this one feels dumb to
me, ready number seven.
True or false if you have towork at communication.
You are not soulmates, false,sorry.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
Gotman institute, I respect everything you present,
but this one makes me a littlewell, because people might think
if it's right, it's right and Ishouldn't have to work at it.
I don't got to work that hard.
Well, you do.
You have to work newsflash.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
You have to work at everything, no matter what.
Welcome to life.
Everything is work.
It's just how you view the workthat is in front of you.
What kind of mindset do youhave around the work and what
the purpose of the work is?
All relationships require workin big bold print.
Well, maybe it's not thatobvious.
(22:34):
Obviously not, All right.
Well, next, this one's kind oflike in the same vein If a
relationship needs therapy, it'salready too late.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
I can see how a majority of people would feel
that way.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
Majority Ready Big stat.
There are 900,000 divorces ayear in the US.
I don't know what the date ofthis is.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
It was updated in 24.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
Okay, so that's pretty darn accurate Almost a
million.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
A million a year.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
And fewer than 10% of the couples that divorce ever
talk to a professional.
So most people do feel likewhat you just said, that it's
true that if we need therapyit's already over.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
Which is kind of silly.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
Yeah, I mean therapy saved our marriage.
Yeah, and we were going totherapy and then had a big event
happen that was catastrophic.
And if we hadn't already beengoing to therapy and continued
going to therapy, we would beone of those statistics.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
Yeah, easy, for sure, easy.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
But we chose to put our egos to the side reluctantly
and you know sometimes, and godo the work with a professional
and get rid of the bullshitstigma that therapy is weak and
therapy is if you have a problemand all of the things that are
(24:13):
associated with the idea ofgoing to therapy.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
I mean, I get it.
We are very prideful creatures.
We think we're right about alot of things that we're just
wrong about.
You know, we, we, no but but ohmy, oh, my god it's.
It's kind of like I can easilysay it's like an owner's manual,
like you've got to like knowthe rules of the game.
(24:38):
It's like trying to figure outhow to play a complex board game
just through trial and errorand you might get lucky with
some stuff.
But if you really want to knowhow to fast track things and how
to really move a little bitmore effortlessly and happily
around the board.
Yeah, yeah it's an, it's just ano-brainer.
(25:00):
It's almost like should be,like something that people do in
the very beginning, like okay,fine, we're gonna take this to
the next level.
We should just like as aprecautionary, like what's the
word?
Proactively?
Yeah because you, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
It's just, it's all about communication yeah, if we
weren't so prideful and therewasn't a stigma around therapy
which I do think I feelpersonally, and maybe this is
just my vantage point or what'sin my orb and center of
influence but I feel liketherapy is definitely becoming
de-stigmatized and people,especially in younger
(25:37):
generations, are starting torecognize it as something that's
necessary with mental health on, you know.
Yeah.
I don't know the stats, I'm notan expert in any of this
relationships, I just have theexperience to speak from.
That's relevant because of ourexperience, but like if we would
simply put more emphasis andfocus on communication and on
(25:59):
being able to express ourselves,even our deepest, darkest, most
shameful things, in an effortto start anew for ourselves,
release ourselves from the gripthat that can sometimes have on
us with a professional who knowswhat tools to give you and what
guidance to give you.
Yeah.
(26:20):
We'd be so evolved just as apopulation.
Yeah.
And that would then obviouslyimpact our divorce rate and our
relationships yeah we're just soquick, we're impulsive and
quick to chase the things thatare easy and and bring us quick
hits of dopamine that, liketherapy, is just.
There's nothing sexy about it.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
So well, it admits that I have a problem, it admits
that I might be, and there weretimes in our experience where
the look on your face whensomething was said that you
thought you were right about,and she would be like, do you
(27:02):
hear him?
And you'd be like, and the samewith me.
Speaker 1 (27:06):
That must not have happened very often because I
don't recall.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
And the same with me that must not have happened very
often, because I don't recallPretty frequently.
No, I do.
But there were times the samewith me where to hear an
unbiased third party sit withyou and your spouse and look at
you in the eye and say do youhear her Like?
I'm so stubborn in my malebrain of like, but that's not
(27:31):
what it is.
You know, that's not the right.
It might take 10 minutes for itto sink in and be like okay.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
I get this or the whole week, and then you go back
to the next session and you'relike wait.
I see that now.
Speaker 2 (27:43):
And then where, like you had that situation, that was
a big conflict.
After you then have these tools, you can look back and be like
duh, yeah, no, that's, thatwouldn't even be an issue now.
Speaker 1 (27:55):
So that's how you grow and get better and evolve
and right you know or or youdon't and I can see like it's
often easier to see in othersthings that are going on when
you're not emotionally attachedto it.
So we talked about that earlier, like as we're discussing our
old wounds right.
The same applies for like youcan look at your you know
cousins relationship or marriage, or your parents marriage or
(28:19):
your best friend's marriage, andsee things from the outside and
a lot of times that's just yourown interpretation or opinion.
Yeah.
So that's not exactly what we'retalking about here, like having
an unbiased third party.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, not a family member Like an
actual professional.
A professional yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:37):
Who is trained and understands these things has
studied them to be able to beunbiased, but also to not
inflict their own opinion.
So, those two things are notthe same, but they are equally
as important For us when wefirst went to therapy.
Speaker 2 (28:54):
I mean we should by all means be a statistic of
divorce.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
We should oh, my God.
Speaker 2 (28:59):
Right.
So but in those rawest timesbeing in a room doing work, you
just feel like a wild animal inthere with your emotions and
you're like I know I emotionsand you and you're like I know
I'm right and you're like I knowI'm right and it's like there's
such a conflict about it.
No shit, you would get divorced.
Speaker 1 (29:19):
Because it's like there's just no way if there's
no one there to tell you hey,your ego is leading.
You're sure as hell not goingto take that from me no, you're
not going to hear me say thatyeah and be like you're right
yeah, it is.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
You know what I'm all charged up?
I just now realized it.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
I'm just being an asshole but when the
professional sitting across fromyou says hey, you're, that's
your ego jumping in to protectyou like you're getting all
charged up about something, butthat's not what she's saying to
you.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
You're hearing it differently.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
Again, it might take you 10 minutes, it might take
you the whole week, but you'redefinitely more attuned and apt
to take that information anddigest it.
Otherwise it's just me battlingyou.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
Yeah, that's.
Another big important thing iswho you get your information
from is so important, especiallyin this day and age.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
There's so many sidebars, we should have
dissected these one at a time.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
But seriously, if you get the wrong information and
you just run with that wronginformation your whole life like
nope this is it and it's likeah.
Speaker 1 (30:32):
Yeah, the best thing I heard recently and I don't
know what exactly was said, butthe sentiment is approach
everything with curiosity.
Yeah, I love curiosity.
I love the word curious.
It makes me think of Alice inWonderland when she's like
curiouser and curiouser, and itjust makes me feel all warm and
(30:53):
like a little kid because I loveAlice in Wonderland.
Not the point, but just if youlead with curiosity, then there
is no ego, there is no right orwrong, you're just simply
exploring.
And there's so much freedom inthat, and so that's what the
therapy journey is all about,and we kind of are on a sidebar
here, because the point was, ifyou need therapy, it's too late
(31:16):
false.
But that's when it begins, whenyou go to therapy if you're not
being proactive and you waitfor a problem, then yes, that's
when it begins with therapy.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
But, like up to that point you were just flying
around the board game with norules, just like.
Like what are we doing here?
I don't know.
But when you go to therapy andyou both go and like we're going
to do this, that's day one ofthe work, that's day one of
going to the gym and be like I'mready to get in shape.
Speaker 1 (31:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:39):
Let's get our marriage in shape.
I mean, why is that sodifficult, though?
Speaker 1 (31:53):
Stigma stigma yeah, that's wow.
And maybe because it's notequitable, therapy is not
available, an available optionfor everyone.
Now I will say that obviouslythere's.
There are plenty of resourcesand there are resource centers
and there are free programs andthere's a lot of online support
these days.
Maybe there were 20 years agoand I didn't know.
So I'm not saying that it's notavailable for everyone, but
nothing is.
You could even say that aboutthe gym.
(32:15):
You know that not everyone hasthe ability to sure there's out,
yeah, outliers and things thatare outside of the big thing is
stigma, I think I think it'sjust too hard to face the idea
that I might be a I might bewrong I might be the cause of
some of my problems.
You know, like that's a and I'mgonna go pay somebody to tell
(32:37):
me that, fuck, that it's easierto just not and then forget it.
You know that's my opinion.
We're huge, uh, advocates oftherapy.
If you can't tell.
So sorry for that littletangent, but okay, moving on.
Brace for impact.
Okay.
Number nine true or false?
Couples fight most about thesethree things Sex, money and
(33:05):
in-laws.
True or false?
True, I would say true too ifyou were asking me and I didn't
have the answer in front of me,but according to the Gottman
Institute, it's false.
Really.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
Are you serious?
Speaker 1 (33:20):
Well, when I say the answer, I'm going to say it's
loosely false.
Here's why the answer is thatthe one thing couples fight most
about is actually nothing, thatthey're conflicts that pop up
because they are failed bids atconnecting.
Yeah, or conflicts that pop upbecause of outside stressors.
Speaker 2 (33:42):
That's a trick question then.
Speaker 1 (33:43):
I agree that's a loose false because couples
fight a lot about sex, money andin-laws.
Yeah.
You know, because they'reemotional and they're heavy and
they're difficult to discern theright thing or the wrong thing.
It feels like there's an answerto how much, how often, who,
(34:04):
when, where, to all of thosethings.
But I would agree that nothingseems to be.
Speaker 2 (34:20):
Nothing seems to be, but but on an average week, the
average week of bickerings, or,you know, the average week of
little arguments and spats.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
It's about we're late , shut up, you're the one that
made us, you know yeah, yeah,the more frequent yeah, just
deeper rooted are the others anda lot of times I would argue,
or at least lend my opinion here, that like those three big
things are underlying thingsthat bubble that then create
those small moments of nothingexactly it's if those are
(34:47):
festering underneath the surfaceand unresolved and tension
around, and then you're justlike the little things make you
snap, yeah, so okay, yeah,that's interesting number 10 all
relationship conflicts can beresolved, true or false uh, I'm
(35:07):
gonna say false.
Speaker 2 (35:09):
I I agree that you should work through things and,
and you know, deal with stuff.
But some things are best leftalone.
Some things you just acceptabout the person and be like you
know what.
I'm not trying to change them.
This doesn't really affect metoo much.
It doesn't really affect mymarriage too much.
It's just a little quirky thingthat they do and if you kind of
(35:31):
feel like it's not that big ofa deal, it's kind of like let a
sleeping dog lie.
Speaker 1 (35:35):
Yeah, it says exactly that.
It's quite the opposite thatall relationship conflicts
cannot be resolved and most ofthem 69% of them are perpetual.
What.
That was like the reaction of a12-year-old, or maybe a
14-year-old.
Speaker 2 (35:55):
I've had a pot of coffee today, so I'm just like
but these conflicts are thelittle things that keep
recurring.
Speaker 1 (36:02):
They're the things that require acceptance of
personality differences.
Yeah, exactly so that you stopletting them become conflicts
exactly they don't need resolved, they don't need to be fixed or
changed they just are thingsaccept.
Move on, focus on the bigthings, yeah manage the conflict
(36:23):
, communicate about it so thatit doesn't become some big
resentment fest.
Speaker 2 (36:27):
Yeah, yeah, personal awareness personal space which I
impede on a lot, your personalspace well, I just think again,
it's a difference in personality.
Speaker 1 (36:44):
I'm an only child, you know I I tend to get a
little squirmy when I feel likemy personal space is being
invaded and you're I like hugsI'm like a cat, you're like a
lab, you like hugs, you like tobe not touchy-feely but like up
in, up in the space a lot.
And you know I don't I love youand I don't look at that as a
(37:09):
negative thing.
It's just sometimes there'sthis acceptance between the two
of us that like I can't havethat right now.
Yeah.
And communication about it.
Yeah, and I'm not always greatat communicating it very nicely.
Sometimes I do snap still,because I'm human.
Or sometimes your feelings gethurt because you're human, but
in the overarching theme ofthings you understand like okay,
(37:33):
we're just different in thatarea.
Yeah, yeah.
And I'm sure there are so manyother little quirky things that
people just accept and don'teven think about in their
marriages and with their spouse.
I think the problem comes inwhen you start compromising who
you are to appease the otherperson's quirkiness, like in a
way that deteriorates who youare and causes resentment.
(37:54):
Yeah's a problem in my humbleopinion.
Number 11, all relationshipconflict is the same.
It is equal.
It can all be approached in thesame way.
Speaker 2 (38:14):
Oh gosh, are we keeping track of these, of how
many I've gotten right?
It's not about being right orwrong.
Oh gosh, are we keeping trackof these?
Speaker 1 (38:20):
of how many I've gotten right.
It's not about being right orwrong.
Honey, you're right, this isjust for fun.
Oh, you're right, this is justfor conversation.
Speaker 2 (38:29):
Well, the answer is clearly false, because you've
got to approach thingsdifferently.
Things deserve to be handled.
Speaker 1 (38:37):
Yeah, the severity of things is not the same.
So resolving the conflict ofwhose turn it is to do the
dishes is a lot different thanresolving the conflict of you
didn't pay the bills and you'vebeen hiding money from me.
Yeah.
It says some conflicts are dealbreakers and for those issues,
compromise can be very difficultyeah, and suggests that you are
(39:02):
very clear and hold strong inwhat your non-negotiables are in
a relationship.
And I would challenge that aswell, because I think sometimes
we think we know what we woulddo, or we think we know what we
want and what's non negotiableuntil we're faced with it.
I'm all for being clear on yourown boundaries and knowing what
you feel about something, butI'm also all for being open to
(39:23):
the idea that you can reservethe right to change your mind,
because things may come up thatyou weren't expecting and that
you said, if that ever happened,I can't recover from that.
And then, in the moment, youpress yourself and you find out
that you can, in fact, keepgoing, yeah, and I would
challenge that because I thinkit goes back to that marriage
(39:45):
isn't just a piece of papercontract yeah if people were a
little bit more open to the ideathat maybe I can be a little
more fluid and growing andlearning with this person and
evolving emotionally, you know,it might not be treated like
just a piece of paper you canthrow away when shit gets hard
because shit gets hard.
(40:06):
Yeah, last but not least,combat compatibility.
I just made up a new word.
Is that a word?
Speaker 2 (40:14):
I don so.
Speaker 1 (40:15):
Well, it's not the word I was going for anyway, so
the word that it was supposed tobe is compatibility.
Okay.
Is what makes relationshipswork, true or false?
Speaker 2 (40:28):
I would say, that's true.
Speaker 1 (40:31):
Gottman Institute says false, that diversity makes
relationships interesting, thatwe are not looking for our
clones yeah opposites attract.
We find let's see what's it sayexactly pheromones we find most
sexy are from people mostgenetically different from us
isn't that weird interesting soit's a primitive thing of like
(40:55):
chemistry, keeping thepopulation gene pool mixed,
mixed up, good so.
So that's so funny wowagreeability and
conscientiousness are thecharacteristics that people
really mean when they talk aboutcompatibility.
And it says these qualities areindexed by a person being able
to say things like good point orthat's interesting.
(41:16):
You might be right yeah duringa disagreement, but that it's
not necessarily what makes arelationship work yeah that's a
good one, because I would agree100 with with that answer.
Speaker 2 (41:32):
But yeah but the key being knowing that you're going
to be attracted to someonethat's different than you in a
lot of ways.
Speaker 1 (41:42):
So working on that communication is what's really
the key to a successfulpartnership yeah, I suppose, if
you approach it that way, like Ilove this person, I care about
them tremendously.
But there are things that theyare completely opposite of me of
yeah, and I can't handle it.
Speaker 2 (41:59):
Yeah, like it's obviously it's like a successful
business, like you get amarketing team and a sales team
and a operations and financeteam and they need to be able to
communicate together yeah ormarketing is going to go blow
all their money at the golfouting, you know, and accounting
is going to be like what thehell?
We don't have any sales to.
(42:19):
We don't have any money tocount because we don't have any
sales.
You know what I mean.
Like both sides need each otherdesperately to thrive and
survive.
Speaker 1 (42:27):
And counterbalance each other.
Speaker 2 (42:28):
And a marriage is no different.
I mean, you can't both bemarketing people.
You know I'm just a horribleexample but, you get the idea.
Speaker 1 (42:42):
Well, yeah, there.
There are many times when Imean we are very much alike, we
enjoy the same interests, yeah,but there are many times when
you present a completelydifferent perspective than me.
That sometimes slash a lot oftimes makes me feel a little bit
uncomfortable, angry, my egocomes in, I'm annoyed.
But they're necessary becauseotherwise I might make dangerous
(43:04):
decisions.
Yeah.
You know you help me see thingsthat I wouldn't otherwise.
Speaker 2 (43:08):
Yeah, looking at it is like I appreciate the
differences and I'm not annoyedby it.
Yeah, you know the differencesand not I'm not annoyed by it.
Yeah, you know.
But in the beginning it waslike why don't you see things my
way?
That doesn't make sense to me.
You're my wife.
Why aren't you agreeing with meabout this, you know?
And you're looking at me likeyeah dumb ass.
(43:31):
Why don't you see it this way,you know?
Yeah, your version.
You had more sass in my I don't.
Speaker 1 (43:38):
That's not fair I know that's not fair.
No, I was kidding, it's trueyeah I was totally playing like
the victim, but you're 100 rightit was way more sass on my side
of the table.
Speaker 3 (43:51):
So biggest takeaways relationships, take work yes,
period the end, good night, sobiggest takeaways Relationships
take work.
Speaker 1 (43:57):
Yes, period, the end, good night.
Conflicts are inevitable, butthey aren't the end.
All be all.
They aren't the enemy.
Communication savesrelationships, therapy saves
relationships, proactiveapproaches to both of those save
(44:20):
relationships.
Those are mine, what are yours?
Speaker 2 (44:23):
Uh, communication is number one.
Expectations Number two Mm hmm,work, mm.
Speaker 1 (44:30):
Hmm, not just, it's a piece of paper.
Speaker 2 (44:31):
And now we're married , so I'm your wife, whatever the
whatever you want to do.
Speaker 1 (44:33):
just let me know.
It's like it's a piece of paperand now we're married, so I'm
your wife, whatever the whateveryou want to do just let me know
.
Speaker 2 (44:40):
It's like, it's kind of like it's not the destination
, it's just when the work begins, you know there are plenty of
people who have successful happyfunctioning relationships
without that piece of paper, youknow, and without therapy?
Sure, you know, it's not like.
This is something that everyonehas to do and you're a turd if
(45:00):
you don't.
Speaker 1 (45:00):
if you don't, you know and on that note, you know
we've overcome a lot of bigthings and therapy has been a
major part of that.
We don't know what lies in thefuture and no one ever does so.
Knowing that that's availableto help you navigate is so
important.
Yeah.
Communication, hard work,therapy.
You don't have to know how todo it all and get it all right.
(45:21):
You actually have to be open toknowing that you don't know how
to do it all.
Yeah.
Isn't that kind of theconundrum?
Speaker 2 (45:30):
Perhaps I might be wrong.
Speaker 1 (45:34):
Or you might be right , or I might be be wrong, or you
might be right, or maybe.
Speaker 2 (45:41):
Well, I just want to say thank you for listening,
because it means a lot to us.
We're very dedicated to showingup every wednesday, especially
you, and today was a really coolepisode, because these are all
things that are helpful,relatable, and Bill, our
tailless Manx cat, has beenwatching us the whole time over
(46:05):
there.
Speaker 1 (46:05):
He's taking notes.
Yeah, you know what I find mostinteresting and then I'll close
it down and this isn't reallyabout us, it's just more of an
overarching thing that I thinkabout.
It's very meaningful to me whenI receive messages from people
who say, like gosh, you neverknow who you're helping.
Thank you so much for doingthis episode or mentioning this
(46:26):
on that episode.
A lot of times some of thestuff we talk about is just
we've gotten so used to it beingwhat we do or how we live or
what we've learned and sharingit to help other people that you
forget.
But then that kind of recentersthe focus for me, and I always
am able to get more out of whatI think I already know or what
(46:48):
I've already shared with someoneby them pointing out that it
made an impact on them.
And.
I guess where I was going withthat is that like conversations
like today that are just kind ofcalm and just here's some
information, let's chat throughit yeah I mean that's what we do
, I mean that's who we are yeahbut sometimes it's easier to
receive listening to two normalpeople who aren't experts yeah
(47:12):
talk about it, who just sharewhat they've been through.
As it pertains to thisinformation, then it is an
expert.
It can soften the pressure orthe stress associated with
feeling judged or like you'renot doing it right by hearing
other people talk about it andgive you the courage, then, to
(47:33):
seek out the expert or thetherapist.
That's huge.
And so you're right.
It is very important to us andwe enjoy it so much and we're so
grateful for you being here asthe listener.
And, at the end of the day, ifnothing else, that is always the
goal To give you the tools andthe courage to empower you to go
(47:54):
make these choices for yourself.
Yeah, it's not to be right.
It's not to educate you to gomake these choices for yourself.
It's not to be right.
It's not to educate you.
It's not to say the way we'redoing it is foolproof or we're
never going to mess up Becausewe are and we do.
It's important to me, especiallyas my book is getting ready to
be, released soon the resetbutton.
For those of you who don't know, I'm releasing a book in May of
(48:15):
2025.
It's important for me to saythat because I, in this platform
it can feel, uh like comeacross that you know everything
and I just certainly don't claimto so this to me was like a
very calm and refreshingconversation, just to kind of
revisit all these bullet pointsand yeah yeah, this is like the
(48:35):
meat and taters of a healthyrelationship.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (48:38):
I feel like like these, these truths, that can we
just agree on these 12 things?
Cause if we can just agree thatthese are, like the pillars of
the therapy's not bad.
Yeah that you know, it's allabout communicating, like if we
could just start here and belike that.
We've been through thispersonally and and we've been on
(49:01):
it on both sides of the coinyeah, these are true to us.
Speaker 1 (49:05):
We've been through it a couple times where maybe at
first we didn't yeah understandthe rules of engagement and then
it just perpetuated and howthat felt right and how it feels
to understand these, you knowit's like oh okay, and what you
said was huge.
Speaker 2 (49:21):
It's all about permission.
One person gave me permissionto go to therapy.
Speaker 1 (49:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (49:27):
And it was like wow, someone that I respected that
said I'm going to therapy andit's really helping me.
Here's their number and it waslike thank you, yeah, and I've
into therapy and it's reallyhelping me.
Here's their number and it waslike thank you, yeah, and I've
paid that forward many times topeople, but you too.
So that's again why this is soawesome for us to be able to do
this, because it's powerful yeah, and so we appreciate you being
(49:49):
here, whether it's your firsttime or you're here every week.
Speaker 1 (49:52):
sometimes the topics may not feel like they relate to
you, but it's meant to meet youwhere you are and to help in
ways that might offer a newperspective, either from me or
from Greg.
Sometimes we don't always havethe same perspective, which is
also what keeps this dynamicinteresting, so thank you so
much for being here.
New episodes every Wednesday.
Speaker 2 (50:11):
Thanks for listening.
Speaker 1 (50:14):
Until next time.
Hello and welcome to the Cameo Show.
I'm your host, cameo, and weare joined by my favorite
husband and co-host.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
I'm the favorite husband.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
You know what I meant , mr Greg Braun, everybody.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Oh my gosh, I can't believe it's Wednesday already
and here we are with anotherexciting episode.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Every Wednesday.
Today, we're going to tacklesome of the biggest relationship
myths out there.
This information is courtesy ofthe Gottman Institute, which we
refer to a lot as we talk aboutrelationships and marriage, and
this is stuff that, like,you've probably heard a million
times, but some of it might notactually be true.
(00:41):
So we're going to go throughand kind of do a myth busters
kind of thing, like a true orfalse, true or trash kind of
thing, and I'll probably bewrong about all of them.
Well, we'll see, we'll see.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Can I start with the dad joke though?
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Oh gosh, yeah, please do.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
You're ready to just get right into it.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
Yeah, sorry about that.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
So why don't watermelons get married?
I don't know.
Because they cantaloupe.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
Very good, very good.
True or trash?
No, just kidding.
Number one, number onerelationship myth is that
marriage is just a piece ofpaper.
Yes or no?
True or false?
What are your thoughts?
Um well, it is a legal bindingcontract, I guess yeah, I
(01:34):
suppose between two people thatsays we're gonna be together and
if you leave me, I'm takinghalf your shit you know like
unless you have a prenup.
That's a whole, whole otherepisode.
I know nothing about prenups.
Yeah.
But I mean.
To me that begs the question oflike how do people view
marriage and the sanctity of itand the seriousness of it?
(01:54):
Like, oh, it's just a piece ofpaper, like I can just wad that
up and throw it in the trash andit's like well, that's probably
not the right way to view itand, based onman Institute, it
shouldn't be treated as suchyeah it's definitely a living,
breathing, functioning thing.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
It's like a, it's like a entity of itself that
needs love and care and yeah youknow, so it's definitely more
than just a piece of paper.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Yeah, we're moving on .
I don't like that one.
Yeah, but it's on the list, soI'm mentioning it.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
But number two Well, can I just say, it gets people
thinking past well, I'm married,so checklist, everything should
just kind of take care ofitself and it's like yeah,
that's just when the work begins, you know, yeah, well, I'm
married, so checklist,everything should just kind of
take care of itself and it'slike, yeah, that's just when the
work begins.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
Yeah, I think that's just kind of dependent on
whoever the person is, theirattitude toward almost anything
in life.
If marriage is just a piece ofpaper, you probably think the
stop sign is just a suggestion.
You know what I mean Kind oflaissez-faire about everything.
So I can appreciate that.
It's on the list, but we'removing on.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
We're moving on.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
Number two living alone with occasional
relationships is a lifestylechoice that is equivalent, in
terms of life outcomes, to beingmarried.
I don't really understand thatone don't either skip it I think
what they're saying is like ifyou choose to live alone, you
will live a healthy life, justas if you live with your spouse
(03:36):
or in a relationship where youhave another person as part of
your ecosystem.
And it says myth, like inepidemiology.
Social epidemiology shows thatpeople who live alone die sooner
, are less healthy, less wealthyand recover from illness slower
than people who are married,especially men yeah because they
(03:59):
have a worse social supportnetwork than women I could agree
with that.
I mean I can see the majority.
I'm not sure that that is ablanket statement for everyone.
I'm sure there are plenty ofpeople who live alone their
entire lifetime and are healthyand take care of themselves and
have a social network that'shealthy, and maybe there are
plenty of men who have healthysocial networks and women who
(04:22):
don't.
So grain of salt, but I guessas a majority I can see that one
.
Yeah, okay, number three thisone gets a little.
This one gets this one, youknow, gets a little loud.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
This one got you dancing I guess, so this one
gets a little.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
Well, anytime the word conflict is in the title,
it you know it starts making youthink a little bit, like it
starts cha-cha on.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
yeah, it means I'm gonna have an opinion about
something.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
Okay conflict, but true or false conflict is a sign
that you're in a badrelationship that's, that is
false is it?
Hold on a second are youflictis a sign that you're in a bad
relationship.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
That's false.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
Yeah, totally false.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
But I can see how people might view it that way,
that everything's great, wenever fight about anything,
everything's just hunky-dory,and that would basically
indicate that one persondominates and the other one just
submits to avoid conflict.
Or that neither care enough to,or there's not enough
(05:31):
engagement in the marriage Tocreate any friction?
Speaker 1 (05:33):
Yeah, yeah, conflict is inevitable in all
relationships.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
Yeah, that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
Because when we have a conflict, if we do it in a
healthy way which we've had tolearn how to do it helps me
understand you as a personbetter, Because there's a reason
that you think something,understand something a certain
way, feel a certain way that'sdifferent than me.
That causes conflict, becauseit's unfamiliar for me that you
(06:01):
get to parse through Like it'san opportunity to learn and be
curious.
More than anything, it's justour emotions get the best of us
sometimes and we argue as amarried couple.
You're making big decisions.
We're not always talking abouttrivial things either.
We're talking about bigdecisions about finances and
children and careers, andsometimes different ideas can
(06:24):
present, you know, a little bitof friction.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
Yeah, I think conflict as, as we have learned
on our journey, in the beginningof our relationship we just
didn't know how to deal witheach other.
We didn't know how to handleconflict and I didn't know how
to handle your energy and youdidn't know how to handle my,
and I didn't know how to handleyour energy and you didn't know
how to handle my energy.
And so you know, we did it thebest way we could, but that's
(06:50):
one of the things that going totherapy taught us was how to
communicate and deal withconflict.
That will inevitably come.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Right.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
As you said, life is full of big, big events and big
decisions, and when everything'shunky dory and there's no
issues, everything's fine.
But when the rubber hits theroad, that's when you get to see
the depth of the relationshipand find out like, oh my gosh,
how do we get through this?
Through this, and knowing howto communicate and handle
(07:30):
conflict has been a huge push inthe right direction for our
happiness and our and ourmarriage.
I can say, because then it'slike you have this confidence
about you that, like I don'tcare what is thrown in our lap
or what what comes up, we willget through it together.
We will, you know.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
and yeah, you learn to trust each other in a way
when you deal with conflictopenly and transparently,
because you recognize that theother person might have big
feelings or expectations thatare different than yours, but
that through practice andthrough evidence, you can always
seem to come to some sort ofcompromise or agreement.
(08:04):
You know this idea that oneperson always gets their way and
the other person just submits.
I mean, I guess, again,depending on the person, might
be what you're looking for, butin a healthy, balanced
relationship, marriage or anyrelationship for that matter,
you're going to come acrossthings that don't always line up
(08:24):
, that you have to learn to workthrough yeah and if you can't
communicate about them, yeah,dead in the water, like it's
going to show up conflict andfriction.
You better learn how tocommunicate about it, yeah, and
decide when it's worthcommunicating about it and when
it's not yeah yeah, what wasthat thing you sent me the other
day about?
Speaker 2 (08:40):
like I've eliminated a lot of conflict in my life by
recognizing that, unless someone, oh yeah, unless someone is
paying me to fix their problems,I don't need to chime in, I
don't need to voice my opinionabout it if they're not paying
me to yeah you know it's like,wow, that's a pretty freeing
statement, because how muchstuff do you worry about that?
Speaker 1 (09:03):
it's like there's nothing you can do about it, you
know yeah, and that may notpertain to a marriage or
relationship or a closerelationship, but also great
advice to live by, because it'slike everybody has an opinion.
It's just not always necessaryto share what that is yeah we've
talked about that a few times.
Yeah.
A whole episode about opinionsand assholes.
(09:25):
Yeah.
All right.
Number four moving on, true orfalse, I'm interested in what
you have to say about this.
One Love is enough.
False why.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
You could be in love and willing to do whatever it
takes.
Why you could be in love andwilling to do whatever it takes.
But if the other party is justunavailable and they don't want
the same thing, then it reallydoesn't matter.
You have to have.
It's a buy-in on both sides.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
Yeah, you're probably right and according to the
Gottman Institute, you are.
Love is enough is a myth,because in most marriages and
relationships, people arecourting each other,
romanticizing each other, andthen life happens, baby comes,
career changes, big stuff, andyou love each other, you care
(10:20):
about each other, but the otherstuff gets in the way and then
roommate syndrome kicks in oryour marriage starts to feel
like a checklist.
So that doesn't mean you don'tlove each other.
It just means that the otherthings are no longer in focus
and not being tended to, andthose things can be enough to
break a marriage if they're notworked on, even if you still
(10:40):
love each other.
Yeah, love is a feeling andthese other things.
Are our effort right enough tobreak a marriage if they're not
worked on, even if you stilllove each other?
Speaker 2 (10:44):
yeah love is a feeling and yeah these other
things are our effort right yeah, you can love your, your garden
and have you know this bigfantasy and vision about it, but
if you don't tend to it andweed it and you know, put good,
good stuff out there and makesure it's always being watered,
it's not gonna thrive right it'snot gonna yield any crops I
(11:09):
like to believe that you know,love can heal everything and I I
do somewhat, but I just thinkthat love is probably the
foundation for the work yeahthat has to ensue.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
Love is what keeps you focused on making sure you
do the work.
But if you don't do the work,love will not keep it there.
Keep it together.
What is love?
Baby don't hurt me.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
Oh, no, no.
But what is love to?
Speaker 1 (11:41):
you Love is a feeling of safety and confidence and
energy yeah, yeah, it'sdefinitely a feeling right yeah,
just isn't that wild yeah, andit's interesting when you ask
that question, I am not evensure how to answer it and I
would because it's a gut feeling.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
There are no words, right, you know.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
We say it, we use that word so much Love you, I
love you, I love that.
Oh my God, that's so great.
I love that.
I love coffee.
Well, what do you mean?
You love it.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
Yeah, wow, some things you love, some things you
don't like, you hate.
It's all just a feeling thatyou get, so it's kind of
interesting.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
Now I'm stuck on what is love.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
Baby, don't hurt me.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
Yeah, joke number two , you snuck one in there.
Okay, number five Talking aboutpast emotional wounds will only
make them worse.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
And I can see how that would be.
People would think that's true,but I would say that that's
definitely false.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
False, according to the Gottman Institute.
Again, all subjective to whatpeople's perspective is for sure
and I can agree with you.
I can see where that could betrue that it only makes it worse
.
but in a healthy relationshipkind of back to that
communication conversation Ican't understand where you're
coming from, especially whenit's coming from an old wound
(13:16):
that maybe has nothing to dowith me but gets projected onto
me if we don't communicate aboutit, if I don't understand where
you're coming from and why, andthen when I do, and vice versa
in our marriage and we don'talways get there really quickly.
Sometimes this is like anongoing evolution, not sometimes
all the time.
(13:37):
You know we're constantlylearning and evolving.
But when I finally dounderstand where you're coming
from, it's a lot easier to seeyou with empathy and compassion
than it is frustration and angerand contention.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
Yeah, you know, when you talk to somebody, you're
talking to their triggers.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
They're having emotional reactions and
responses to things that you say.
You could bring up a topicthat's very sensitive to
somebody and they immediately gointo the red zone, you know as
an example.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
Yeah, that's a visceral reaction, sometimes too
, where people don't even knowtheir body is just doing it.
Like we had something come uprecently and we were talking
about like knowing andunderstanding and being able to
think about it and talk yourselfthrough it, but also, at the
same time, like your body knows,like your body feels it, and
that's a visceral reaction wherepeople maybe start sweating or
(14:28):
yeah start feeling that likerage build up and they're cork,
ready to pop yeah and they don'taren't in control of it.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
It's not a conscious thing, it's yeah it's a
subconscious deeply rootedthat's why this is all so hard,
because it's all like science,it's all.
Yeah, it's all kind of likeprimitive feelings and um, but
the whole point of being safe,talking about old wounds and old
traumas is because that way youcan work through it in the
(14:58):
future if something comes up.
I mean it's not like you'rejust reliving these things just
to do it it's like.
It's the same as like.
If you owned a business, you'dbe like where be like?
Where are my potential issues?
Or deficiencies or what happenedin the past that I need to be
cognizant of, and that's a verysafe thing to be, like any
successful business person wouldbe like.
(15:18):
Yeah, a very valid question.
I'm always asking myself whatam I missing here?
What am I missing here?
But why wouldn't you feel thatway about your marriage?
Like, what am I missing hereTalking about these things?
Speaker 1 (15:30):
Well, because feelings and emotions are
vulnerable and they're also verypersonal.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
Yeah, but it's like it seems so obvious that you
would want to and not bury yourhead in the sand.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
I think sometimes people want to.
They just maybe don't know howto.
Yeah, we didn't Well exactly,so we literally went and learned
, I mean, and even went andlearned I mean, and even still
to this day and are learning.
Yeah, it's like hard.
Conversations are always hard.
You might get a little betterat approaching them, but they're
always hard yeah andunderstanding our own emotions
(16:00):
is very difficult, sounderstanding our spouse's
emotions is even more so, right?
I mean talking about pastwounds is a healthy thing.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
Absolutely, and you know you're getting to a good
place when you can talk aboutpast wounds and they don't
trigger you and you don't feelanything about them.
It's just like talking about aNetflix show you watched last
night and it doesn't become apersonal tragedy that you've
experienced.
That's growth.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
Yeah, I also think.
Just one more thing that poppedinto my mind there is that,
like it's really difficultsometimes to recognize in
ourselves when we're beingtriggered by something that
hurts us.
So if our spouse is aware ofthat existing maybe not in the
moment, but even at another timeit would be helpful and is
often appropriate to bring thatup and say, like you know, maybe
(16:49):
you were having that reactionbecause, remember that time you
shared with me about thishappening, or this person said
this, or even from yourchildhood, that your spouse then
is able to say, maybe that'swhat made you feel that way in
that situation, and then you'reable to disconnect from it
emotionally a little bit andlook at it with a little bit
more like separation anddistance and be like oh yeah,
wow, okay bit and look at itwith a little bit more like
separation and distance and belike oh yeah, wow Okay.
(17:11):
That was reminiscent of thattime.
But if your spouse was unawareof those types of things that
were impactful for you, youmight continue on being
frustrated.
Your spouse is frustratedbecause we don't understand why
this is happening or why itkeeps happening.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
You're just like why can't you be normal?
Speaker 1 (17:29):
That every wife to every husband.
No, I'm just kidding.
All right, I like this one.
I think you could do an entireepisode on this one.
True or false.
Better relationships are onesin which people are more
independent and less needy ofone another.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Okay, say that again.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
Better relationships are the ones where people are
more independent of and lessneedy of one another.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
I mean, I feel like that's just preference.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
We could talk about this for an hour, because I
think you can get into theconversation of interdependence
in one another versuscodependence in one another.
You can talk about beingindependent and still having
your own space and time toexplore your own hobbies, but
then also being like, respectfuland connected to your spouse in
(18:27):
ways that seemingly compromiseyour independence.
Yeah.
You know so Gottman Institutesays in great relationships
people try to meet each other'sneeds and they adopt the motto
when you're hurting baby, theworld stops.
And I listen.
So more of a like we're a teamand that interdependence is a
(18:52):
what a relationship is all about.
that in a healthy relationship,we flow and it's not about
maintaining my individuality somuch so that it causes a wedge
yeah it's healthy to have yourown things, sure, but I feel
like again, in my opinion and II'm curious what yours is here
but like that, if left unchecked, can cause a lot of conflict
(19:18):
and friction, because one personthen kind of inadvertently
deems their independence ortheir preferences or their
interests as more important thanthe relationship or it
completely ignores that therelationship is also its own
living, breathing thing yeah, Ijust think it, that one comes
back to balance and common sense, because what's right for me
(19:41):
might not be right for thisother person or this other
person, and as long as I'mtaking care of you're taking
care of you and we take care ofthe marriage.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
Those are the three things that, when those are all
happy and healthy and insynchronicity, things just
happen and flow and there'snothing that we can't get
through and deal with.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
But the central message of what you just said is
that you treat the marriagelike it has its own separate
needs, and you're not justfocused on maintaining your
independence, you're focused onmaking sure that everything
flows, which is interdependenceupon each other.
Codependence is a completelyseparate conversation and topic,
(20:31):
but we talk about this often.
We spend all the time together.
We work together, we work outtogether, we parent together, we
drive together.
We are together almost all thetime, but I still feel very
independent in my thinking andin the things that I enjoy doing
, and I just feel very luckythat I get to do a lot of those
(20:52):
with you, that we share the sameinterests where to an outsider
or in some cases it iscodependence, where, like I,
can't do things without youversus choosing to and again
preference.
Yeah, I think if someone isreally extremely needy and that
falls into that codependence,like you need me, you're, you're
(21:16):
expecting me to carry a lot ofheavy, the heavy parts of this
relationship, that that's amajor, you know, point of
contention for people becauseit's too much pressure.
So I would say that a betterrelationship is one where people
are less needy but not in theway of like being shut down and
not open with each other.
(21:37):
Yeah, back to flow.
Flow feels like the right wordfor that.
Yeah, for that one, these arelike kind of heavy.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
That's a heavy one.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
Some of them are kind of dumb too, like this one
feels dumb to me, ready Numberseven.
Some of them are kind of dumbtoo, like this one feels dumb to
me, ready number seven.
True or false if you have towork at communication.
You are not soulmates, false,sorry.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
Gotman institute, I respect everything you present,
but this one makes me a littlewell, because people might think
if it's right, it's right and Ishouldn't have to work at it.
I don't got to work that hard.
Well, you do.
You have to work newsflash.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
You have to work at everything, no matter what.
Welcome to life.
Everything is work.
It's just how you view the workthat is in front of you.
What kind of mindset do youhave around the work and what
the purpose of the work is?
All relationships require workin big bold print.
Well, maybe it's not thatobvious.
(22:34):
Obviously not, All right.
Well, next, this one's kind oflike in the same vein If a
relationship needs therapy, it'salready too late.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
I can see how a majority of people would feel
that way.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
Majority Ready Big stat.
There are 900,000 divorces ayear in the US.
I don't know what the date ofthis is.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
It was updated in 24.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
Okay, so that's pretty darn accurate Almost a
million.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
A million a year.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
And fewer than 10% of the couples that divorce ever
talk to a professional.
So most people do feel likewhat you just said, that it's
true that if we need therapyit's already over.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
Which is kind of silly.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
Yeah, I mean therapy saved our marriage.
Yeah, and we were going totherapy and then had a big event
happen that was catastrophic.
And if we hadn't already beengoing to therapy and continued
going to therapy, we would beone of those statistics.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
Yeah, easy, for sure, easy.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
But we chose to put our egos to the side reluctantly
and you know sometimes, and godo the work with a professional
and get rid of the bullshitstigma that therapy is weak and
therapy is if you have a problemand all of the things that are
(24:13):
associated with the idea ofgoing to therapy.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
I mean, I get it.
We are very prideful creatures.
We think we're right about alot of things that we're just
wrong about.
You know, we, we, no but but ohmy, oh, my god it's.
It's kind of like I can easilysay it's like an owner's manual,
like you've got to like knowthe rules of the game.
(24:38):
It's like trying to figure outhow to play a complex board game
just through trial and errorand you might get lucky with
some stuff.
But if you really want to knowhow to fast track things and how
to really move a little bitmore effortlessly and happily
around the board.
Yeah, yeah it's an, it's just ano-brainer.
(25:00):
It's almost like should be,like something that people do in
the very beginning, like okay,fine, we're gonna take this to
the next level.
We should just like as aprecautionary, like what's the
word?
Proactively?
Yeah because you, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
It's just, it's all about communication yeah, if we
weren't so prideful and therewasn't a stigma around therapy
which I do think I feelpersonally, and maybe this is
just my vantage point or what'sin my orb and center of
influence but I feel liketherapy is definitely becoming
de-stigmatized and people,especially in younger
(25:37):
generations, are starting torecognize it as something that's
necessary with mental health on, you know.
Yeah.
I don't know the stats, I'm notan expert in any of this
relationships, I just have theexperience to speak from.
That's relevant because of ourexperience, but like if we would
simply put more emphasis andfocus on communication and on
(25:59):
being able to express ourselves,even our deepest, darkest, most
shameful things, in an effortto start anew for ourselves,
release ourselves from the gripthat that can sometimes have on
us with a professional who knowswhat tools to give you and what
guidance to give you.
Yeah.
(26:20):
We'd be so evolved just as apopulation.
Yeah.
And that would then obviouslyimpact our divorce rate and our
relationships yeah we're just soquick, we're impulsive and
quick to chase the things thatare easy and and bring us quick
hits of dopamine that, liketherapy, is just.
There's nothing sexy about it.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
So well, it admits that I have a problem, it admits
that I might be, and there weretimes in our experience where
the look on your face whensomething was said that you
thought you were right about,and she would be like, do you
(27:02):
hear him?
And you'd be like, and the samewith me.
Speaker 1 (27:06):
That must not have happened very often because I
don't recall.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
And the same with me that must not have happened very
often, because I don't recallPretty frequently.
No, I do.
But there were times the samewith me where to hear an
unbiased third party sit withyou and your spouse and look at
you in the eye and say do youhear her Like?
I'm so stubborn in my malebrain of like, but that's not
(27:31):
what it is.
You know, that's not the right.
It might take 10 minutes for itto sink in and be like okay.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
I get this or the whole week, and then you go back
to the next session and you'relike wait.
I see that now.
Speaker 2 (27:43):
And then where, like you had that situation, that was
a big conflict.
After you then have these tools, you can look back and be like
duh, yeah, no, that's, thatwouldn't even be an issue now.
Speaker 1 (27:55):
So that's how you grow and get better and evolve
and right you know or or youdon't and I can see like it's
often easier to see in othersthings that are going on when
you're not emotionally attachedto it.
So we talked about that earlier, like as we're discussing our
old wounds right.
The same applies for like youcan look at your you know
cousins relationship or marriage, or your parents marriage or
(28:19):
your best friend's marriage, andsee things from the outside and
a lot of times that's just yourown interpretation or opinion.
Yeah.
So that's not exactly what we'retalking about here, like having
an unbiased third party.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, not a family member Like an
actual professional.
A professional yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:37):
Who is trained and understands these things has
studied them to be able to beunbiased, but also to not
inflict their own opinion.
So, those two things are notthe same, but they are equally
as important For us when wefirst went to therapy.
Speaker 2 (28:54):
I mean we should by all means be a statistic of
divorce.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
We should oh, my God.
Speaker 2 (28:59):
Right.
So but in those rawest timesbeing in a room doing work, you
just feel like a wild animal inthere with your emotions and
you're like I know I emotionsand you and you're like I know
I'm right and you're like I knowI'm right and it's like there's
such a conflict about it.
No shit, you would get divorced.
Speaker 1 (29:19):
Because it's like there's just no way if there's
no one there to tell you hey,your ego is leading.
You're sure as hell not goingto take that from me no, you're
not going to hear me say thatyeah and be like you're right
yeah, it is.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
You know what I'm all charged up?
I just now realized it.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
I'm just being an asshole but when the
professional sitting across fromyou says hey, you're, that's
your ego jumping in to protectyou like you're getting all
charged up about something, butthat's not what she's saying to
you.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
You're hearing it differently.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
Again, it might take you 10 minutes, it might take
you the whole week, but you'redefinitely more attuned and apt
to take that information anddigest it.
Otherwise it's just me battlingyou.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
Yeah, that's.
Another big important thing iswho you get your information
from is so important, especiallyin this day and age.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
There's so many sidebars, we should have
dissected these one at a time.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
But seriously, if you get the wrong information and
you just run with that wronginformation your whole life like
nope this is it and it's likeah.
Speaker 1 (30:32):
Yeah, the best thing I heard recently and I don't
know what exactly was said, butthe sentiment is approach
everything with curiosity.
Yeah, I love curiosity.
I love the word curious.
It makes me think of Alice inWonderland when she's like
curiouser and curiouser, and itjust makes me feel all warm and
(30:53):
like a little kid because I loveAlice in Wonderland.
Not the point, but just if youlead with curiosity, then there
is no ego, there is no right orwrong, you're just simply
exploring.
And there's so much freedom inthat, and so that's what the
therapy journey is all about,and we kind of are on a sidebar
here, because the point was, ifyou need therapy, it's too late
(31:16):
false.
But that's when it begins, whenyou go to therapy if you're not
being proactive and you waitfor a problem, then yes, that's
when it begins with therapy.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
But, like up to that point you were just flying
around the board game with norules, just like.
Like what are we doing here?
I don't know.
But when you go to therapy andyou both go and like we're going
to do this, that's day one ofthe work, that's day one of
going to the gym and be like I'mready to get in shape.
Speaker 1 (31:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:39):
Let's get our marriage in shape.
I mean, why is that sodifficult, though?
Speaker 1 (31:53):
Stigma stigma yeah, that's wow.
And maybe because it's notequitable, therapy is not
available, an available optionfor everyone.
Now I will say that obviouslythere's.
There are plenty of resourcesand there are resource centers
and there are free programs andthere's a lot of online support
these days.
Maybe there were 20 years agoand I didn't know.
So I'm not saying that it's notavailable for everyone, but
nothing is.
You could even say that aboutthe gym.
(32:15):
You know that not everyone hasthe ability to sure there's out,
yeah, outliers and things thatare outside of the big thing is
stigma, I think I think it'sjust too hard to face the idea
that I might be a I might bewrong I might be the cause of
some of my problems.
You know, like that's a and I'mgonna go pay somebody to tell
(32:37):
me that, fuck, that it's easierto just not and then forget it.
You know that's my opinion.
We're huge, uh, advocates oftherapy.
If you can't tell.
So sorry for that littletangent, but okay, moving on.
Brace for impact.
Okay.
Number nine true or false?
Couples fight most about thesethree things Sex, money and
(33:05):
in-laws.
True or false?
True, I would say true too ifyou were asking me and I didn't
have the answer in front of me,but according to the Gottman
Institute, it's false.
Really.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
Are you serious?
Speaker 1 (33:20):
Well, when I say the answer, I'm going to say it's
loosely false.
Here's why the answer is thatthe one thing couples fight most
about is actually nothing, thatthey're conflicts that pop up
because they are failed bids atconnecting.
Yeah, or conflicts that pop upbecause of outside stressors.
Speaker 2 (33:42):
That's a trick question then.
Speaker 1 (33:43):
I agree that's a loose false because couples
fight a lot about sex, money andin-laws.
Yeah.
You know, because they'reemotional and they're heavy and
they're difficult to discern theright thing or the wrong thing.
It feels like there's an answerto how much, how often, who,
(34:04):
when, where, to all of thosethings.
But I would agree that nothingseems to be.
Speaker 2 (34:20):
Nothing seems to be, but but on an average week, the
average week of bickerings, or,you know, the average week of
little arguments and spats.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
It's about we're late , shut up, you're the one that
made us, you know yeah, yeah,the more frequent yeah, just
deeper rooted are the others anda lot of times I would argue,
or at least lend my opinion here, that like those three big
things are underlying thingsthat bubble that then create
those small moments of nothingexactly it's if those are
(34:47):
festering underneath the surfaceand unresolved and tension
around, and then you're justlike the little things make you
snap, yeah, so okay, yeah,that's interesting number 10 all
relationship conflicts can beresolved, true or false uh, I'm
(35:07):
gonna say false.
Speaker 2 (35:09):
I I agree that you should work through things and,
and you know, deal with stuff.
But some things are best leftalone.
Some things you just acceptabout the person and be like you
know what.
I'm not trying to change them.
This doesn't really affect metoo much.
It doesn't really affect mymarriage too much.
It's just a little quirky thingthat they do and if you kind of
(35:31):
feel like it's not that big ofa deal, it's kind of like let a
sleeping dog lie.
Speaker 1 (35:35):
Yeah, it says exactly that.
It's quite the opposite thatall relationship conflicts
cannot be resolved and most ofthem 69% of them are perpetual.
What.
That was like the reaction of a12-year-old, or maybe a
14-year-old.
Speaker 2 (35:55):
I've had a pot of coffee today, so I'm just like
but these conflicts are thelittle things that keep
recurring.
Speaker 1 (36:02):
They're the things that require acceptance of
personality differences.
Yeah, exactly so that you stopletting them become conflicts
exactly they don't need resolved, they don't need to be fixed or
changed they just are thingsaccept.
Move on, focus on the bigthings, yeah manage the conflict
(36:23):
, communicate about it so thatit doesn't become some big
resentment fest.
Speaker 2 (36:27):
Yeah, yeah, personal awareness personal space which I
impede on a lot, your personalspace well, I just think again,
it's a difference in personality.
Speaker 1 (36:44):
I'm an only child, you know I I tend to get a
little squirmy when I feel likemy personal space is being
invaded and you're I like hugsI'm like a cat, you're like a
lab, you like hugs, you like tobe not touchy-feely but like up
in, up in the space a lot.
And you know I don't I love youand I don't look at that as a
(37:09):
negative thing.
It's just sometimes there'sthis acceptance between the two
of us that like I can't havethat right now.
Yeah.
And communication about it.
Yeah, and I'm not always greatat communicating it very nicely.
Sometimes I do snap still,because I'm human.
Or sometimes your feelings gethurt because you're human, but
in the overarching theme ofthings you understand like okay,
(37:33):
we're just different in thatarea.
Yeah, yeah.
And I'm sure there are so manyother little quirky things that
people just accept and don'teven think about in their
marriages and with their spouse.
I think the problem comes inwhen you start compromising who
you are to appease the otherperson's quirkiness, like in a
way that deteriorates who youare and causes resentment.
(37:54):
Yeah's a problem in my humbleopinion.
Number 11, all relationshipconflict is the same.
It is equal.
It can all be approached in thesame way.
Speaker 2 (38:14):
Oh gosh, are we keeping track of these, of how
many I've gotten right?
It's not about being right orwrong.
Oh gosh, are we keeping trackof these?
Speaker 1 (38:20):
of how many I've gotten right.
It's not about being right orwrong.
Honey, you're right, this isjust for fun.
Oh, you're right, this is justfor conversation.
Speaker 2 (38:29):
Well, the answer is clearly false, because you've
got to approach thingsdifferently.
Things deserve to be handled.
Speaker 1 (38:37):
Yeah, the severity of things is not the same.
So resolving the conflict ofwhose turn it is to do the
dishes is a lot different thanresolving the conflict of you
didn't pay the bills and you'vebeen hiding money from me.
Yeah.
It says some conflicts are dealbreakers and for those issues,
compromise can be very difficultyeah, and suggests that you are
(39:02):
very clear and hold strong inwhat your non-negotiables are in
a relationship.
And I would challenge that aswell, because I think sometimes
we think we know what we woulddo, or we think we know what we
want and what's non negotiableuntil we're faced with it.
I'm all for being clear on yourown boundaries and knowing what
you feel about something, butI'm also all for being open to
(39:23):
the idea that you can reservethe right to change your mind,
because things may come up thatyou weren't expecting and that
you said, if that ever happened,I can't recover from that.
And then, in the moment, youpress yourself and you find out
that you can, in fact, keepgoing, yeah, and I would
challenge that because I thinkit goes back to that marriage
(39:45):
isn't just a piece of papercontract yeah if people were a
little bit more open to the ideathat maybe I can be a little
more fluid and growing andlearning with this person and
evolving emotionally, you know,it might not be treated like
just a piece of paper you canthrow away when shit gets hard
because shit gets hard.
(40:06):
Yeah, last but not least,combat compatibility.
I just made up a new word.
Is that a word?
Speaker 2 (40:14):
I don so.
Speaker 1 (40:15):
Well, it's not the word I was going for anyway, so
the word that it was supposed tobe is compatibility.
Okay.
Is what makes relationshipswork, true or false?
Speaker 2 (40:28):
I would say, that's true.
Speaker 1 (40:31):
Gottman Institute says false, that diversity makes
relationships interesting, thatwe are not looking for our
clones yeah opposites attract.
We find let's see what's it sayexactly pheromones we find most
sexy are from people mostgenetically different from us
isn't that weird interesting soit's a primitive thing of like
(40:55):
chemistry, keeping thepopulation gene pool mixed,
mixed up, good so.
So that's so funny wowagreeability and
conscientiousness are thecharacteristics that people
really mean when they talk aboutcompatibility.
And it says these qualities areindexed by a person being able
to say things like good point orthat's interesting.
(41:16):
You might be right yeah duringa disagreement, but that it's
not necessarily what makes arelationship work yeah that's a
good one, because I would agree100 with with that answer.
Speaker 2 (41:32):
But yeah but the key being knowing that you're going
to be attracted to someonethat's different than you in a
lot of ways.
Speaker 1 (41:42):
So working on that communication is what's really
the key to a successfulpartnership yeah, I suppose, if
you approach it that way, like Ilove this person, I care about
them tremendously.
But there are things that theyare completely opposite of me of
yeah, and I can't handle it.
Speaker 2 (41:59):
Yeah, like it's obviously it's like a successful
business, like you get amarketing team and a sales team
and a operations and financeteam and they need to be able to
communicate together yeah ormarketing is going to go blow
all their money at the golfouting, you know, and accounting
is going to be like what thehell?
We don't have any sales to.
(42:19):
We don't have any money tocount because we don't have any
sales.
You know what I mean.
Like both sides need each otherdesperately to thrive and
survive.
Speaker 1 (42:27):
And counterbalance each other.
Speaker 2 (42:28):
And a marriage is no different.
I mean, you can't both bemarketing people.
You know I'm just a horribleexample but, you get the idea.
Speaker 1 (42:42):
Well, yeah, there.
There are many times when Imean we are very much alike, we
enjoy the same interests, yeah,but there are many times when
you present a completelydifferent perspective than me.
That sometimes slash a lot oftimes makes me feel a little bit
uncomfortable, angry, my egocomes in, I'm annoyed.
But they're necessary becauseotherwise I might make dangerous
(43:04):
decisions.
Yeah.
You know you help me see thingsthat I wouldn't otherwise.
Speaker 2 (43:08):
Yeah, looking at it is like I appreciate the
differences and I'm not annoyedby it.
Yeah, you know the differencesand not I'm not annoyed by it.
Yeah, you know.
But in the beginning it waslike why don't you see things my
way?
That doesn't make sense to me.
You're my wife.
Why aren't you agreeing with meabout this, you know?
And you're looking at me likeyeah dumb ass.
(43:31):
Why don't you see it this way,you know?
Yeah, your version.
You had more sass in my I don't.
Speaker 1 (43:38):
That's not fair I know that's not fair.
No, I was kidding, it's trueyeah I was totally playing like
the victim, but you're 100 rightit was way more sass on my side
of the table.
Speaker 3 (43:51):
So biggest takeaways relationships, take work yes,
period the end, good night, sobiggest takeaways Relationships
take work.
Speaker 1 (43:57):
Yes, period, the end, good night.
Conflicts are inevitable, butthey aren't the end.
All be all.
They aren't the enemy.
Communication savesrelationships, therapy saves
relationships, proactiveapproaches to both of those save
(44:20):
relationships.
Those are mine, what are yours?
Speaker 2 (44:23):
Uh, communication is number one.
Expectations Number two Mm hmm,work, mm.
Speaker 1 (44:30):
Hmm, not just, it's a piece of paper.
Speaker 2 (44:31):
And now we're married , so I'm your wife, whatever the
whatever you want to do.
Speaker 1 (44:33):
just let me know.
It's like it's a piece of paperand now we're married, so I'm
your wife, whatever the whateveryou want to do just let me know
.
Speaker 2 (44:40):
It's like, it's kind of like it's not the destination
, it's just when the work begins, you know there are plenty of
people who have successful happyfunctioning relationships
without that piece of paper, youknow, and without therapy?
Sure, you know, it's not like.
This is something that everyonehas to do and you're a turd if
(45:00):
you don't.
Speaker 1 (45:00):
if you don't, you know and on that note, you know
we've overcome a lot of bigthings and therapy has been a
major part of that.
We don't know what lies in thefuture and no one ever does so.
Knowing that that's availableto help you navigate is so
important.
Yeah.
Communication, hard work,therapy.
You don't have to know how todo it all and get it all right.
(45:21):
You actually have to be open toknowing that you don't know how
to do it all.
Yeah.
Isn't that kind of theconundrum?
Speaker 2 (45:30):
Perhaps I might be wrong.
Speaker 1 (45:34):
Or you might be right , or I might be be wrong, or you
might be right, or maybe.
Speaker 2 (45:41):
Well, I just want to say thank you for listening,
because it means a lot to us.
We're very dedicated to showingup every wednesday, especially
you, and today was a really coolepisode, because these are all
things that are helpful,relatable, and Bill, our
tailless Manx cat, has beenwatching us the whole time over
(46:05):
there.
Speaker 1 (46:05):
He's taking notes.
Yeah, you know what I find mostinteresting and then I'll close
it down and this isn't reallyabout us, it's just more of an
overarching thing that I thinkabout.
It's very meaningful to me whenI receive messages from people
who say, like gosh, you neverknow who you're helping.
Thank you so much for doingthis episode or mentioning this
(46:26):
on that episode.
A lot of times some of thestuff we talk about is just
we've gotten so used to it beingwhat we do or how we live or
what we've learned and sharingit to help other people that you
forget.
But then that kind of recentersthe focus for me, and I always
am able to get more out of whatI think I already know or what
(46:48):
I've already shared with someoneby them pointing out that it
made an impact on them.
And.
I guess where I was going withthat is that like conversations
like today that are just kind ofcalm and just here's some
information, let's chat throughit yeah I mean that's what we do
, I mean that's who we are yeahbut sometimes it's easier to
receive listening to two normalpeople who aren't experts yeah
(47:12):
talk about it, who just sharewhat they've been through.
As it pertains to thisinformation, then it is an
expert.
It can soften the pressure orthe stress associated with
feeling judged or like you'renot doing it right by hearing
other people talk about it andgive you the courage, then, to
(47:33):
seek out the expert or thetherapist.
That's huge.
And so you're right.
It is very important to us andwe enjoy it so much and we're so
grateful for you being here asthe listener.
And, at the end of the day, ifnothing else, that is always the
goal To give you the tools andthe courage to empower you to go
(47:54):
make these choices for yourself.
Yeah, it's not to be right.
It's not to educate you to gomake these choices for yourself.
It's not to be right.
It's not to educate you.
It's not to say the way we'redoing it is foolproof or we're
never going to mess up Becausewe are and we do.
It's important to me, especiallyas my book is getting ready to
be, released soon the resetbutton.
For those of you who don't know, I'm releasing a book in May of
(48:15):
2025.
It's important for me to saythat because I, in this platform
it can feel, uh like comeacross that you know everything
and I just certainly don't claimto so this to me was like a
very calm and refreshingconversation, just to kind of
revisit all these bullet pointsand yeah yeah, this is like the
(48:35):
meat and taters of a healthyrelationship.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (48:38):
I feel like like these, these truths, that can we
just agree on these 12 things?
Cause if we can just agree thatthese are, like the pillars of
the therapy's not bad.
Yeah that you know, it's allabout communicating, like if we
could just start here and belike that.
We've been through thispersonally and and we've been on
(49:01):
it on both sides of the coinyeah, these are true to us.
Speaker 1 (49:05):
We've been through it a couple times where maybe at
first we didn't yeah understandthe rules of engagement and then
it just perpetuated and howthat felt right and how it feels
to understand these, you knowit's like oh okay, and what you
said was huge.
Speaker 2 (49:21):
It's all about permission.
One person gave me permissionto go to therapy.
Speaker 1 (49:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (49:27):
And it was like wow, someone that I respected that
said I'm going to therapy andit's really helping me.
Here's their number and it waslike thank you, yeah, and I've
into therapy and it's reallyhelping me.
Here's their number and it waslike thank you, yeah, and I've
paid that forward many times topeople, but you too.
So that's again why this is soawesome for us to be able to do
this, because it's powerful yeah, and so we appreciate you being
(49:49):
here, whether it's your firsttime or you're here every week.
Speaker 1 (49:52):
sometimes the topics may not feel like they relate to
you, but it's meant to meet youwhere you are and to help in
ways that might offer a newperspective, either from me or
from Greg.
Sometimes we don't always havethe same perspective, which is
also what keeps this dynamicinteresting, so thank you so
much for being here.
New episodes every Wednesday.
Speaker 2 (50:11):
Thanks for listening.
Speaker 1 (50:14):
Until next time.
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