September 3, 2025 • 25 mins
Have you ever accomplished something remarkable, only to immediately rob yourself of joy by focusing on all the ways it could have been better? That crushing cycle of achievement followed by self-criticism is what Greg and I unpack in this raw and vulnerable conversation.
Together we explore:
- Why we get in our own way right after achieving goals
- The mountain climbing analogy: celebrating each plateau instead of dismissing it because it isn’t the summit
- How perfectionism fuels a never-ending cycle of dissatisfaction
- The power of reframing self-sabotage as protection rather than defeat
- Practical tools that actually work:
• Naming your inner critic to create distance from negative thoughts
• Practicing thought replacement (you can only think one thought at a time)
• Cultivating gratitude—even if it’s simply for the breath in your lungs - The importance of giving yourself space to recenter after self-criticism
- A reminder: self-sabotage isn’t proof you’re broken—it’s proof you’re human
This conversation isn’t just philosophy—it’s therapy in real time, with tangible ways to reclaim the joy that comes from acknowledging how far you’ve come.
If this resonates, share the episode with someone stuck in their own head. Sometimes the most healing thing is knowing you’re not alone.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello and welcome to the Cameo Show.
I'm your host, cameo, and weare joined today by my husband
and co-host, greg Braun.
Welcome to the show.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
So glad to be here.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
You like to start us with a chuckle?
You got a dad joke lined up forus.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
I do, I do.
I heard about a great deal on abroken guitar.
It comes with no stringsattached.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
It comes with no strings attached.
Great, great job.
That reminds me of a story.
One time we were at a yogurtplace, a frozen yogurt place.
Do you remember this and theflavor of?
Speaker 2 (00:44):
the yogurt was NSA blueberry or something.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
And the person that we were with said, oh look, no
strings attached blueberry.
And I was like I think theymean no sugar added.
But he was like no, it's nostrings attached.
And I'm like mind blown, it was, it's a top 10 moment.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
It was a moment for me, it was really funny.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
So now, every time we see NSA meaning no sugar added
at like an ice cream shop or ona menu, I always say no strings
attached.
So thank you you know who youare for your no strings attached
moment.
Today we're diving intoself-sabotage, and I would bet
(01:24):
that everyone can relate to theidea of getting in their own way
, stopping themselves fromenjoying a moment of success or
something to celebrate by beingin their own head and taking
away this joyous moment fromthemselves by saying, oh, but I
could have done this, or if Iwould have only done that, or it
(01:46):
would have been better if this.
I'm experiencing that in realtime and it's just.
God damn it, it's not any fun.
I have all the tools to not doit.
I know I'm doing it.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
And I still do it.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
And I still do it and I just wish I wouldn't do it
anymore.
How do we break the cycle?
So let's talk about it.
Have you ever stayed up latewhen you know you have to get up
early in the morning?
Have you ever put off somethingand procrastinated because you
were afraid of it?
That's all like normalself-doubt stuff.
Self-sabotage is what comesafter you get up and you do the
(02:24):
damn thing and then you're like,oh, bummed.
There are so many times andwhat I'm experiencing right now
that if you told me five yearsago I would be doing it, I'd be
like shut up, that's amazing.
That's incredible, holy shit,well done, congratulations.
Fast forward to like the inreal time moment X, moment
(02:50):
happens, and instead of beinglike, oh my God, holy shit,
congratulations, that's amazing,I'm like, oh, that wasn't what
I wanted it to be.
And you're like would you shutup?
And I'm like well, butself-sabotage keeps me humble
and self-sabotage makes me pressmyself to do better, and I
(03:11):
could argue that I could saythat that's true, but it also
seals everything you work towardand every bit of excitement and
momentum that you have to clingto from a moment that you've
been really excited about orwaiting for for a long time.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
I think that's the thing that a lot of people have
trouble with is they don't knowhow to celebrate the wins.
We're so focused on growth,we're so focused on success and
grinding Did I say success?
So focused on making shithappen, that when something does
happen in your favor, you kindof don't know how to accept it
(03:51):
into your life.
I feel like it's important tobe able to learn how to accept
the wins as they come, becausethey are the jet fuel that you
need to keep going.
When times get tough, like forme, I feel like it'd be easy to
just always stay in the negativespace and in the grinding space
(04:12):
and just never lift your headup and like realize the growth
that's happening.
But you kind of have to havesome perspective on it and, like
you said, it's great to zoomout and look at it from the past
and the future.
You said it's great to zoom outand look at it from the past
and the future.
When you're in the moment, it'ssometimes hard to realize what
(04:34):
greatness is happening.
But if you go back 10 years agoand be like this is what
happened today, you would belike, oh my God, this is
incredible, unbelievable.
I don't even believe you, butin the moment, moment, you're
like, oh, I wish I would havedone this right, this wasn't
exactly the way I wanted it tobe.
And it's like, and it just robsyou from all the magic of the
(04:55):
moment of like hitting an actualgoal and reaching a new summit.
You know, be like climbing amountain, and every time you get
well, we're not up there, youknow.
And it's like come on, you gotto celebrate each, each plateau,
you know.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
Yeah, that's such a great analogy because you
wouldn't probably do that, asyou're hiking a mountain like,
well, we got here, but we're notup there.
And that's exactly what I'mdoing to myself.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
Right.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
And what people often do when you accomplish
something or when you dosomething that you're, like, so
excited to do.
I said directly after thismoment happened, like I think I
set myself up with such highexpectations of myself and so
much excitement that I wanted tonail it, knock it out of the
park, that it wouldn't havemattered, even if, by my
standards, that I did, because Iwould have found something to
(05:42):
like pick apart and like takeaway from what happened, because
I set myself up fordisappointment by having such
high expectations, which is itgoes back to like I already know
this.
I already know like don't havesuch high expectations of
yourself or of others becauseyou just set yourself up for
(06:02):
disappointment.
Yet here I am, once again,unable to celebrate, unable to
be happy for myself, and not inlike a woe is me, but like more
in a like God damn it.
I wanted to do better.
I try to spin it to make it apositive, like okay, well,
that's just awareness, becauseawareness of anything is how you
get better, but what'shappening is that I just keep
(06:24):
knocking it into the negativespace.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
Yeah, it's like you've got this head coach that
lives in your head, this littlebobby knight that's throwing
chairs around.
That's like, no matter how goodyou play, no matter what
happens, there's alwayssomething to work on it and I
get it.
I mean, I mean, I get it.
That's.
That's the mindset to have,that's a winner's mindset.
But you're going to driveyourself crazy and not
experience the little joys alongthe way and really it's all
(06:49):
about the journey, it's notabout the destination.
It's all about who you'rebecoming along the way.
So if you look at it more of asupportive person, in your head
that's like great job,unbelievable, let's keep going.
I'm not talking about toxicpositivity, but sometimes you
just got to be a little bit morenice to yourself.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
Well, yeah, you know, yeah, and I, I talk about this
in my book.
I tell myself this all the time, I talk about it on my story.
I tell you this tell the kidsthis, which is why I'm so pissed
off at myself for being soupset about something that's
actually really awesome.
Yeah, is that like?
I would never tell you that.
(07:31):
I would never be like well, butyou know, you could have done
so much better.
Right, right I would be likethat was so amazing and if there
were things that you could dobetter.
They wouldn't come out as likeand I'm so disappointed that you
didn't do it better it wouldcome out as like constructive
criticism, maybe like at a latertime, when we're having a
constructive conversation, notthe immediate aftermath of the
(07:55):
moment, and then the whole thingis just ruined.
It's just ruined.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
It's kind of like the exact opposite of being
completely full of yourself andthinking that you're just God,
you know, and you're just likeunbelievable and you're perfect
and everything's just you know.
It's the opposite of that it'severything I do is not good
enough and it's that programmingthat's just pounded into us,
(08:20):
and it's like it takes effortand work to find some sort of
like happy medium, because youneed both.
You need both voices, but lookat them as tools, though, and
don't abuse one or the other.
Like you, you gotta have both,because you got to stay
realistic about your stuff.
But so many people are stuck inthe negative space and they
(08:40):
don't even try or they don'teven feel like they're worthy of
trying or doing the thing, ortrying to think is you know just
the way they talk to themselves.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
We had this conversation with a friend who
did something really exemplar Imean just an absolute amazing
thing to have as anaccomplishment in your life and
he vocalized that like he wasnot as happy with it as maybe he
might have been, because heknew about some other things
that were supposed to be a partof it and that were happening,
(09:12):
and it was like I didn't knowabout any of that.
I didn't know anything wasmissing.
You do this all the time whenyou record music.
You'll like bring this full mix, all the paint on the canvas,
and then you delete things andit's like I didn't know that
that was even there in the firstplace.
So, like the artist, the personbehind what's happening, the
(09:33):
person behind the product, thesuccess, is the only one who
really knows, back to that selfexpectation, what you thought it
was supposed to be or what itsounded like in your head.
And you, like I I'm not goingto say you, like everybody does
this, but what I find myselfdoing is playing, repeat that
thing that I thought went wrongor that thing that I think is
(09:55):
missing or that would have madeit better, and just completely
negating all of the other stuff,which is what actually
everybody sees and everybodyloves and what helps everyone or
entertains everyone or whateverthe case may be, instead of
like being able to feel that, soI do it.
I do it when it's notaccomplishment related to and I
(10:16):
don't know.
I'm sure you do too as a dad,but I was going to say, like as
a mom, I also write about thisin my book.
I should be so much better atthese things, because I write
about all of them in my book andyet here I still sit spinning
my wheels.
Sometimes, instead of goingover the list of all the amazing
things that happen, I findmyself dwelling on that one time
(10:36):
I snapped, or that one time Iwasn't listening and I got
busted because I was looking atmy phone and I should have been
paying better attention and I'vegotten better at it, but I
sabotage myself as a mom bydwelling on the negative.
It's like what is that?
Is it like survival or what?
Why do we do it?
Speaker 2 (10:57):
Well, yeah, I mean, that's that's what keeps you
alive is is is that negativemindset, and I think that's why
it's so important to have peoplein your life that are lifting
you up and reminding you that,just because you think, all
these crazy negative thoughtsand you know that are there to
(11:18):
like say, hey, no, you did agreat job.
Way to go, I'm proud of you.
You know, that's why it'simportant, because you got to
have that, or else you're justgoing to go down the spiral and
your thoughts will become thisweed garden of negativity that
will trap you and you start tofeel like you can't do anything
(11:41):
right.
And actually from the outside Imean, I experience this all the
time you feel like no one cares.
You feel like this and it'slike someone will reach out and
you're just like, wow, this isconnecting or whatever the thing
is.
But that's why it's soimportant to have people around
you that are the right energythat pull you out of that, or
(12:04):
else you just stay there.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
Yeah, and thank you for doing that in the immediate
aftermath of my pouting aboutthe situation that we're that
I'm referencing.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
I'm not sharing details, but two things on that.
So, first, everything you justsaid is, when you make it all
about you yeah, and you actuallysaid that to me directly after
our non-detail shared situationyou were like, well, you're
making it all about you, itwasn't about you.
Okay, thank you for thecorrection, because you're
absolutely right.
So that is selfish of me andthat's what happens in a moment
(12:39):
of self-sabotage.
We're being selfish becausewe're making it all about us.
And the second thing is yousaid it's we need to get better.
I need to get better.
We all can get better at beingthat for ourselves.
And we talk about naming ourinner critic, right?
(13:00):
Whether Sharon Salzberg, she isbig in the meditation space she
calls her inner voice, her meaninner voice, lucy.
We've talked about this a fewtimes.
I have one.
She has lots of names.
She's mean Depends on whatversion of her is popping in.
(13:22):
But we need to like speak toher in a calm, like be our.
We need to have the other sideof that is what I'm trying to
say.
Like I have this nasty one.
Well, I need to have one in myhead that also like is detached
from myself, and name hersomething nice, like Georgia or
you know, something sweet andwhere she chimes in.
And is that for me to pull meout of that?
(13:45):
Like we need to do a better jobof finding that within
ourselves and naming, naming theinner critic and then also
naming the part of us that needsto come in and pull ourselves
out of it.
Yeah, that that make sense.
Do you know what I'm saying?
Speaker 2 (13:57):
Yeah, I feel like something that I learned a long
time ago that I've always kindof clung to is you can only
think one thought at a time.
Literally, you can only thinkone thing at a time.
So if I ever catch myselfthinking of something negative,
force myself to make it apositive and I know that sounds
(14:20):
crazy and silly and why would Iwant to do that but it
strengthens the positivitymuscle to where, like when you
do find yourself spiraling, youhave the strength to stop it and
not continue on.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
I agree, I, I, I.
That totally makes sense to meand it's absolutely valuable to
have as a tool.
But, like, even right now, I'mstill angsty about it and I'm
like, well, that that doesn'twork.
I'm not doing that, that'sstupid, but I know it works, but
it's just like in the moment,it's almost like you have to
allow yourself to just go dosomething else directly after
(15:02):
something, so that you're notlike too high or too low, you're
just neutral, you're, you moveon and you do something that's
distracting, so that when youcome back to reevaluating, or
when you come back to evaluatingwhat just happened, you come to
it with a from a clear space,rather than like an emotional
state, because that's what Imaybe is often happening, like
(15:24):
when I'm overly critical ofmyself as a mom like I'm doing
it from a reactive emotionalstate.
If I would just come back to itlater, like tomorrow even, and
be like, oh, nobody even cares,like that wasn't even a big deal
.
It was a huge deal in themoment, but it wasn't even a big
deal.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
I also think, in addition to like naming our
voices in our head, if we couldreposition, like even the word
self-sabotage, like theperspective of that, so kind of
what you're saying about, likeyou're thinking something
negative remind yourself you canonly think one thought at a
time and make it positive, butalso like reframe self-sabotage
(16:03):
and be like okay, that's my egotrying to protect me, so I'm not
self-sabotaging, I'm protectingmyself, I'm I'm evaluating my
situation and then like thatgives it a different spin and a
different power, cause then itfeels less like it feels less
negative and less mean and morelike pragmatic, almost.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
Yeah, yeah, all of these things sound so great.
And then I'm sitting over herestill pissed Like well that's
why we're talking about it,because you know people
listening will be able toreflect on their own week and be
like what have I?
You know, what have I selfishlybeen mad about?
(16:46):
That really, at the end of theday, doesn't matter.
And if you keep zooming out, itmatters way less than like it
matters to you a lot when you'relike zoned in on it about that
thing, but like if you have thatend result and it's, you know,
(17:19):
again two years ago or fiveyears ago, you'd be like I would
have never dreamed I'd havethis moment.
And you're having that momentbut still have something to say
about it.
Negative, but yeah, it's.
It's still not perfect, youknow.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
Oh yeah, perfectionism at its finest,
that's what it is.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
I mean, you're just a perfectionist.
You are, and that's a greattrait, that's a great skill and
it's helped you a lot in yourlife.
But it needs to be kept incheck or you won't have any
enjoyment in your life.
You'll just always be seekingperfection.
And guess what?
There's no such thing.
You can sing the perfect vocaltake and it's amazing and you're
(17:56):
like but I was sharp or flat,or but it's like, do do the
people listening hear that?
Or do they just feel theabsolute emotion in your voice?
And and that's all that reallymatters.
But if you make it about you,then then yeah, you didn't do
the perfect performance, youknow.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
I do it, I mean it's, it's, it's part of the part of
doing, doing life, you know.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
It's really back to that, what you just said and
what I said earlier about likemaking it all about you, making
it all about the emotion in themoment and I actually just
talked about this in a differentway but like if you stop
thinking about you and youremotions in that moment and you
reconnect to like zooming out oryour why, or the end result, or
(18:46):
the goal that you want foryourself and the evidence that
you have that it doesn't have tobe perfect, If you just start,
you'll achieve it and then allowyourself to enjoy it.
It's a completely differentvantage point.
Like it gives you the powerback in saying I get to choose,
I'm choosing differently.
I'm not choosing differentlyyet, I'm still stuck in, damn it
(19:12):
.
But if I give myself some spaceand take a few deep breaths and
maybe I need to meditate for afew minutes or something, Lift
weights.
Go lift weights.
But if I give myself some spaceto recenter and remind myself
of how it's connected to thebigger picture, the why, the who
(19:32):
I was five years ago, would bejumping up and down screaming
right now, excited yeah insteadof the me.
Now that's like well.
I should have done a better job.
It's.
It's different and I will takethat power back.
I'm just not there yet, so inreal time, this is just like a
therapy session.
Thank you for being here.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
Another thing you can do that's helpful to keep
things in perspective is atnight, when you're going to bed,
when you're laying there tryingto fall asleep.
Instead of beating yourself upabout the things you didn't do
and what you should have saidand what you could have done and
all this stuff, startpracticing doing this.
(20:17):
Start laying there, going tosleep, winding down and going
through all the things thatyou're grateful for.
It's too powerful.
You start going through thelist.
Once you get to like 20, you'restarting to fall asleep and
you're just like overwhelmed,like oh yeah, I don't have
anything to complain about.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
That's a great suggestion and thank you for the
reminder of that.
I thought you were going to saysomething about, like how I
referenced in the book just flipit and find all the positive,
go through the list of thingsyou did right, but I'm so glad
that you honed in on gratitude,and here's why you can always
find something to be gratefulfor.
You might not always, in thatmoment, be able to find
something that you did right,you just might not allow
(20:56):
yourself to, but you can alwaysfind something to be grateful
for.
Even if it's just the simplefact that you're breathing, even
if it's just the simple factthat you have somewhere to sleep
period, you can always findsomething to be grateful for.
So I'm glad that you broughtthat up and I'm glad that that's
the way you brought it up,because that's probably the
(21:16):
biggest shift.
Honestly, like that, if there'sanything to take from this
episode, it is 100% that.
Thank you for that Also.
One last thing self-sabotageisn't that you're broken.
It's that you're human and thatyou feel things and that you
are allowed to like, want topush yourself to be better, do
(21:37):
better, grow.
It's just also give yourselfthe grace that you are human and
keep your keep that in check,because unchecked is unhealthy
and unfair to you as a human.
You have emotions fine.
It's just when you getblindsided by them and you then
(21:58):
start leaning into them.
That ain't no good.
So I referenced a few timesthat I bring up these tools in
my book and clearly I'mdisplaying that as a human, I
still have to work through myown tools.
So, if you're interested inunderstanding the path and the
tools that I lay out, my book iscalled the Reset Button and it
(22:21):
is available on Amazon and it'sjust evidence that you can hit
the reset button at any time.
Because here's the deal I wrotethe damn book and I'm sitting
here telling myself the samethings I had to tell myself a
decade ago, that I've learned,that have helped, that have
helped me, that have beenhelpful from other people, and
it's because we're freakinghuman and we're evolving and
(22:42):
it's just a cycle of like,constantly reevaluating where
you are.
So the reset button you canreinvent yourself at any time.
The last thing I want you to dois think of a moment when you
have just completely drownedyourself in self-sabotage, been
completely unfair to yourself,and ask yourself what's one
small action I can take to spinthat, whether it's gratitude, a
(23:06):
positive spin, go lift weights,whatever it is, to give yourself
a break, to actually come to itfrom a neutral position.
You deserve that and it's theonly way with awareness that
it's ever going to get anybetter in some of these
instances along the way.
You don't have to stopself-sabotaging overnight.
You just have to do it onesmall choice at a time and it
(23:30):
does get better, awareness beingthe first step, and then
honesty is the truth Honesty,okay guys.
Thanks for the therapy session.
I hope in some way this didhelp you, because I know we all
face it.
We all deal with it on aregular basis.
If it did resonate with you,share it with a friend, because
it's helpful to know sometimesthat, like you're not the only
(23:52):
one that lives in your head.
Other people do too, and hereare some quick tools that might
help you get outside of your ownhead in the first place.
We have new episodes everyWednesday.
Thank you so much for beinghere and joining us on the Cameo
Show.
Greg, thanks for being myperson to help me in moments
when I can't see things clearly.
(24:14):
I appreciate you.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
And you as well.
I appreciate you.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
And we appreciate you .
Speaker 2 (24:22):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
Until next time.
Hello and welcome to the Cameo Show.
I'm your host, cameo, and weare joined today by my husband
and co-host, greg Braun.
Welcome to the show.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
So glad to be here.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
You like to start us with a chuckle?
You got a dad joke lined up forus.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
I do, I do.
I heard about a great deal on abroken guitar.
It comes with no stringsattached.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
It comes with no strings attached.
Great, great job.
That reminds me of a story.
One time we were at a yogurtplace, a frozen yogurt place.
Do you remember this and theflavor of?
Speaker 2 (00:44):
the yogurt was NSA blueberry or something.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
And the person that we were with said, oh look, no
strings attached blueberry.
And I was like I think theymean no sugar added.
But he was like no, it's nostrings attached.
And I'm like mind blown, it was, it's a top 10 moment.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
It was a moment for me, it was really funny.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
So now, every time we see NSA meaning no sugar added
at like an ice cream shop or ona menu, I always say no strings
attached.
So thank you you know who youare for your no strings attached
moment.
Today we're diving intoself-sabotage, and I would bet
(01:24):
that everyone can relate to theidea of getting in their own way
, stopping themselves fromenjoying a moment of success or
something to celebrate by beingin their own head and taking
away this joyous moment fromthemselves by saying, oh, but I
could have done this, or if Iwould have only done that, or it
(01:46):
would have been better if this.
I'm experiencing that in realtime and it's just.
God damn it, it's not any fun.
I have all the tools to not doit.
I know I'm doing it.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
And I still do it.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
And I still do it and I just wish I wouldn't do it
anymore.
How do we break the cycle?
So let's talk about it.
Have you ever stayed up latewhen you know you have to get up
early in the morning?
Have you ever put off somethingand procrastinated because you
were afraid of it?
That's all like normalself-doubt stuff.
Self-sabotage is what comesafter you get up and you do the
(02:24):
damn thing and then you're like,oh, bummed.
There are so many times andwhat I'm experiencing right now
that if you told me five yearsago I would be doing it, I'd be
like shut up, that's amazing.
That's incredible, holy shit,well done, congratulations.
Fast forward to like the inreal time moment X, moment
(02:50):
happens, and instead of beinglike, oh my God, holy shit,
congratulations, that's amazing,I'm like, oh, that wasn't what
I wanted it to be.
And you're like would you shutup?
And I'm like well, butself-sabotage keeps me humble
and self-sabotage makes me pressmyself to do better, and I
(03:11):
could argue that I could saythat that's true, but it also
seals everything you work towardand every bit of excitement and
momentum that you have to clingto from a moment that you've
been really excited about orwaiting for for a long time.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
I think that's the thing that a lot of people have
trouble with is they don't knowhow to celebrate the wins.
We're so focused on growth,we're so focused on success and
grinding Did I say success?
So focused on making shithappen, that when something does
happen in your favor, you kindof don't know how to accept it
(03:51):
into your life.
I feel like it's important tobe able to learn how to accept
the wins as they come, becausethey are the jet fuel that you
need to keep going.
When times get tough, like forme, I feel like it'd be easy to
just always stay in the negativespace and in the grinding space
(04:12):
and just never lift your headup and like realize the growth
that's happening.
But you kind of have to havesome perspective on it and, like
you said, it's great to zoomout and look at it from the past
and the future.
You said it's great to zoom outand look at it from the past
and the future.
When you're in the moment, it'ssometimes hard to realize what
(04:34):
greatness is happening.
But if you go back 10 years agoand be like this is what
happened today, you would belike, oh my God, this is
incredible, unbelievable.
I don't even believe you, butin the moment, moment, you're
like, oh, I wish I would havedone this right, this wasn't
exactly the way I wanted it tobe.
And it's like, and it just robsyou from all the magic of the
(04:55):
moment of like hitting an actualgoal and reaching a new summit.
You know, be like climbing amountain, and every time you get
well, we're not up there, youknow.
And it's like come on, you gotto celebrate each, each plateau,
you know.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
Yeah, that's such a great analogy because you
wouldn't probably do that, asyou're hiking a mountain like,
well, we got here, but we're notup there.
And that's exactly what I'mdoing to myself.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
Right.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
And what people often do when you accomplish
something or when you dosomething that you're, like, so
excited to do.
I said directly after thismoment happened, like I think I
set myself up with such highexpectations of myself and so
much excitement that I wanted tonail it, knock it out of the
park, that it wouldn't havemattered, even if, by my
standards, that I did, because Iwould have found something to
(05:42):
like pick apart and like takeaway from what happened, because
I set myself up fordisappointment by having such
high expectations, which is itgoes back to like I already know
this.
I already know like don't havesuch high expectations of
yourself or of others becauseyou just set yourself up for
(06:02):
disappointment.
Yet here I am, once again,unable to celebrate, unable to
be happy for myself, and not inlike a woe is me, but like more
in a like God damn it.
I wanted to do better.
I try to spin it to make it apositive, like okay, well,
that's just awareness, becauseawareness of anything is how you
get better, but what'shappening is that I just keep
(06:24):
knocking it into the negativespace.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
Yeah, it's like you've got this head coach that
lives in your head, this littlebobby knight that's throwing
chairs around.
That's like, no matter how goodyou play, no matter what
happens, there's alwayssomething to work on it and I
get it.
I mean, I mean, I get it.
That's.
That's the mindset to have,that's a winner's mindset.
But you're going to driveyourself crazy and not
experience the little joys alongthe way and really it's all
(06:49):
about the journey, it's notabout the destination.
It's all about who you'rebecoming along the way.
So if you look at it more of asupportive person, in your head
that's like great job,unbelievable, let's keep going.
I'm not talking about toxicpositivity, but sometimes you
just got to be a little bit morenice to yourself.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
Well, yeah, you know, yeah, and I, I talk about this
in my book.
I tell myself this all the time, I talk about it on my story.
I tell you this tell the kidsthis, which is why I'm so pissed
off at myself for being soupset about something that's
actually really awesome.
Yeah, is that like?
I would never tell you that.
(07:31):
I would never be like well, butyou know, you could have done
so much better.
Right, right I would be likethat was so amazing and if there
were things that you could dobetter.
They wouldn't come out as likeand I'm so disappointed that you
didn't do it better it wouldcome out as like constructive
criticism, maybe like at a latertime, when we're having a
constructive conversation, notthe immediate aftermath of the
(07:55):
moment, and then the whole thingis just ruined.
It's just ruined.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
It's kind of like the exact opposite of being
completely full of yourself andthinking that you're just God,
you know, and you're just likeunbelievable and you're perfect
and everything's just you know.
It's the opposite of that it'severything I do is not good
enough and it's that programmingthat's just pounded into us,
(08:20):
and it's like it takes effortand work to find some sort of
like happy medium, because youneed both.
You need both voices, but lookat them as tools, though, and
don't abuse one or the other.
Like you, you gotta have both,because you got to stay
realistic about your stuff.
But so many people are stuck inthe negative space and they
(08:40):
don't even try or they don'teven feel like they're worthy of
trying or doing the thing, ortrying to think is you know just
the way they talk to themselves.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
We had this conversation with a friend who
did something really exemplar Imean just an absolute amazing
thing to have as anaccomplishment in your life and
he vocalized that like he wasnot as happy with it as maybe he
might have been, because heknew about some other things
that were supposed to be a partof it and that were happening,
(09:12):
and it was like I didn't knowabout any of that.
I didn't know anything wasmissing.
You do this all the time whenyou record music.
You'll like bring this full mix, all the paint on the canvas,
and then you delete things andit's like I didn't know that
that was even there in the firstplace.
So, like the artist, the personbehind what's happening, the
(09:33):
person behind the product, thesuccess, is the only one who
really knows, back to that selfexpectation, what you thought it
was supposed to be or what itsounded like in your head.
And you, like I I'm not goingto say you, like everybody does
this, but what I find myselfdoing is playing, repeat that
thing that I thought went wrongor that thing that I think is
(09:55):
missing or that would have madeit better, and just completely
negating all of the other stuff,which is what actually
everybody sees and everybodyloves and what helps everyone or
entertains everyone or whateverthe case may be, instead of
like being able to feel that, soI do it.
I do it when it's notaccomplishment related to and I
(10:16):
don't know.
I'm sure you do too as a dad,but I was going to say, like as
a mom, I also write about thisin my book.
I should be so much better atthese things, because I write
about all of them in my book andyet here I still sit spinning
my wheels.
Sometimes, instead of goingover the list of all the amazing
things that happen, I findmyself dwelling on that one time
(10:36):
I snapped, or that one time Iwasn't listening and I got
busted because I was looking atmy phone and I should have been
paying better attention and I'vegotten better at it, but I
sabotage myself as a mom bydwelling on the negative.
It's like what is that?
Is it like survival or what?
Why do we do it?
Speaker 2 (10:57):
Well, yeah, I mean, that's that's what keeps you
alive is is is that negativemindset, and I think that's why
it's so important to have peoplein your life that are lifting
you up and reminding you that,just because you think, all
these crazy negative thoughtsand you know that are there to
(11:18):
like say, hey, no, you did agreat job.
Way to go, I'm proud of you.
You know, that's why it'simportant, because you got to
have that, or else you're justgoing to go down the spiral and
your thoughts will become thisweed garden of negativity that
will trap you and you start tofeel like you can't do anything
(11:41):
right.
And actually from the outside Imean, I experience this all the
time you feel like no one cares.
You feel like this and it'slike someone will reach out and
you're just like, wow, this isconnecting or whatever the thing
is.
But that's why it's soimportant to have people around
you that are the right energythat pull you out of that, or
(12:04):
else you just stay there.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
Yeah, and thank you for doing that in the immediate
aftermath of my pouting aboutthe situation that we're that
I'm referencing.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
I'm not sharing details, but two things on that.
So, first, everything you justsaid is, when you make it all
about you yeah, and you actuallysaid that to me directly after
our non-detail shared situationyou were like, well, you're
making it all about you, itwasn't about you.
Okay, thank you for thecorrection, because you're
absolutely right.
So that is selfish of me andthat's what happens in a moment
(12:39):
of self-sabotage.
We're being selfish becausewe're making it all about us.
And the second thing is yousaid it's we need to get better.
I need to get better.
We all can get better at beingthat for ourselves.
And we talk about naming ourinner critic, right?
(13:00):
Whether Sharon Salzberg, she isbig in the meditation space she
calls her inner voice, her meaninner voice, lucy.
We've talked about this a fewtimes.
I have one.
She has lots of names.
She's mean Depends on whatversion of her is popping in.
(13:22):
But we need to like speak toher in a calm, like be our.
We need to have the other sideof that is what I'm trying to
say.
Like I have this nasty one.
Well, I need to have one in myhead that also like is detached
from myself, and name hersomething nice, like Georgia or
you know, something sweet andwhere she chimes in.
And is that for me to pull meout of that?
(13:45):
Like we need to do a better jobof finding that within
ourselves and naming, naming theinner critic and then also
naming the part of us that needsto come in and pull ourselves
out of it.
Yeah, that that make sense.
Do you know what I'm saying?
Speaker 2 (13:57):
Yeah, I feel like something that I learned a long
time ago that I've always kindof clung to is you can only
think one thought at a time.
Literally, you can only thinkone thing at a time.
So if I ever catch myselfthinking of something negative,
force myself to make it apositive and I know that sounds
(14:20):
crazy and silly and why would Iwant to do that but it
strengthens the positivitymuscle to where, like when you
do find yourself spiraling, youhave the strength to stop it and
not continue on.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
I agree, I, I, I.
That totally makes sense to meand it's absolutely valuable to
have as a tool.
But, like, even right now, I'mstill angsty about it and I'm
like, well, that that doesn'twork.
I'm not doing that, that'sstupid, but I know it works, but
it's just like in the moment,it's almost like you have to
allow yourself to just go dosomething else directly after
(15:02):
something, so that you're notlike too high or too low, you're
just neutral, you're, you moveon and you do something that's
distracting, so that when youcome back to reevaluating, or
when you come back to evaluatingwhat just happened, you come to
it with a from a clear space,rather than like an emotional
state, because that's what Imaybe is often happening, like
(15:24):
when I'm overly critical ofmyself as a mom like I'm doing
it from a reactive emotionalstate.
If I would just come back to itlater, like tomorrow even, and
be like, oh, nobody even cares,like that wasn't even a big deal
.
It was a huge deal in themoment, but it wasn't even a big
deal.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
I also think, in addition to like naming our
voices in our head, if we couldreposition, like even the word
self-sabotage, like theperspective of that, so kind of
what you're saying about, likeyou're thinking something
negative remind yourself you canonly think one thought at a
time and make it positive, butalso like reframe self-sabotage
(16:03):
and be like okay, that's my egotrying to protect me, so I'm not
self-sabotaging, I'm protectingmyself, I'm I'm evaluating my
situation and then like thatgives it a different spin and a
different power, cause then itfeels less like it feels less
negative and less mean and morelike pragmatic, almost.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
Yeah, yeah, all of these things sound so great.
And then I'm sitting over herestill pissed Like well that's
why we're talking about it,because you know people
listening will be able toreflect on their own week and be
like what have I?
You know, what have I selfishlybeen mad about?
(16:46):
That really, at the end of theday, doesn't matter.
And if you keep zooming out, itmatters way less than like it
matters to you a lot when you'relike zoned in on it about that
thing, but like if you have thatend result and it's, you know,
(17:19):
again two years ago or fiveyears ago, you'd be like I would
have never dreamed I'd havethis moment.
And you're having that momentbut still have something to say
about it.
Negative, but yeah, it's.
It's still not perfect, youknow.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
Oh yeah, perfectionism at its finest,
that's what it is.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
I mean, you're just a perfectionist.
You are, and that's a greattrait, that's a great skill and
it's helped you a lot in yourlife.
But it needs to be kept incheck or you won't have any
enjoyment in your life.
You'll just always be seekingperfection.
And guess what?
There's no such thing.
You can sing the perfect vocaltake and it's amazing and you're
(17:56):
like but I was sharp or flat,or but it's like, do do the
people listening hear that?
Or do they just feel theabsolute emotion in your voice?
And and that's all that reallymatters.
But if you make it about you,then then yeah, you didn't do
the perfect performance, youknow.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
I do it, I mean it's, it's, it's part of the part of
doing, doing life, you know.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
It's really back to that, what you just said and
what I said earlier about likemaking it all about you, making
it all about the emotion in themoment and I actually just
talked about this in a differentway but like if you stop
thinking about you and youremotions in that moment and you
reconnect to like zooming out oryour why, or the end result, or
(18:46):
the goal that you want foryourself and the evidence that
you have that it doesn't have tobe perfect, If you just start,
you'll achieve it and then allowyourself to enjoy it.
It's a completely differentvantage point.
Like it gives you the powerback in saying I get to choose,
I'm choosing differently.
I'm not choosing differentlyyet, I'm still stuck in, damn it
(19:12):
.
But if I give myself some spaceand take a few deep breaths and
maybe I need to meditate for afew minutes or something, Lift
weights.
Go lift weights.
But if I give myself some spaceto recenter and remind myself
of how it's connected to thebigger picture, the why, the who
(19:32):
I was five years ago, would bejumping up and down screaming
right now, excited yeah insteadof the me.
Now that's like well.
I should have done a better job.
It's.
It's different and I will takethat power back.
I'm just not there yet, so inreal time, this is just like a
therapy session.
Thank you for being here.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
Another thing you can do that's helpful to keep
things in perspective is atnight, when you're going to bed,
when you're laying there tryingto fall asleep.
Instead of beating yourself upabout the things you didn't do
and what you should have saidand what you could have done and
all this stuff, startpracticing doing this.
(20:17):
Start laying there, going tosleep, winding down and going
through all the things thatyou're grateful for.
It's too powerful.
You start going through thelist.
Once you get to like 20, you'restarting to fall asleep and
you're just like overwhelmed,like oh yeah, I don't have
anything to complain about.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
That's a great suggestion and thank you for the
reminder of that.
I thought you were going to saysomething about, like how I
referenced in the book just flipit and find all the positive,
go through the list of thingsyou did right, but I'm so glad
that you honed in on gratitude,and here's why you can always
find something to be gratefulfor.
You might not always, in thatmoment, be able to find
something that you did right,you just might not allow
(20:56):
yourself to, but you can alwaysfind something to be grateful
for.
Even if it's just the simplefact that you're breathing, even
if it's just the simple factthat you have somewhere to sleep
period, you can always findsomething to be grateful for.
So I'm glad that you broughtthat up and I'm glad that that's
the way you brought it up,because that's probably the
(21:16):
biggest shift.
Honestly, like that, if there'sanything to take from this
episode, it is 100% that.
Thank you for that Also.
One last thing self-sabotageisn't that you're broken.
It's that you're human and thatyou feel things and that you
are allowed to like, want topush yourself to be better, do
(21:37):
better, grow.
It's just also give yourselfthe grace that you are human and
keep your keep that in check,because unchecked is unhealthy
and unfair to you as a human.
You have emotions fine.
It's just when you getblindsided by them and you then
(21:58):
start leaning into them.
That ain't no good.
So I referenced a few timesthat I bring up these tools in
my book and clearly I'mdisplaying that as a human, I
still have to work through myown tools.
So, if you're interested inunderstanding the path and the
tools that I lay out, my book iscalled the Reset Button and it
(22:21):
is available on Amazon and it'sjust evidence that you can hit
the reset button at any time.
Because here's the deal I wrotethe damn book and I'm sitting
here telling myself the samethings I had to tell myself a
decade ago, that I've learned,that have helped, that have
helped me, that have beenhelpful from other people, and
it's because we're freakinghuman and we're evolving and
(22:42):
it's just a cycle of like,constantly reevaluating where
you are.
So the reset button you canreinvent yourself at any time.
The last thing I want you to dois think of a moment when you
have just completely drownedyourself in self-sabotage, been
completely unfair to yourself,and ask yourself what's one
small action I can take to spinthat, whether it's gratitude, a
(23:06):
positive spin, go lift weights,whatever it is, to give yourself
a break, to actually come to itfrom a neutral position.
You deserve that and it's theonly way with awareness that
it's ever going to get anybetter in some of these
instances along the way.
You don't have to stopself-sabotaging overnight.
You just have to do it onesmall choice at a time and it
(23:30):
does get better, awareness beingthe first step, and then
honesty is the truth Honesty,okay guys.
Thanks for the therapy session.
I hope in some way this didhelp you, because I know we all
face it.
We all deal with it on aregular basis.
If it did resonate with you,share it with a friend, because
it's helpful to know sometimesthat, like you're not the only
(23:52):
one that lives in your head.
Other people do too, and hereare some quick tools that might
help you get outside of your ownhead in the first place.
We have new episodes everyWednesday.
Thank you so much for beinghere and joining us on the Cameo
Show.
Greg, thanks for being myperson to help me in moments
when I can't see things clearly.
(24:14):
I appreciate you.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
And you as well.
I appreciate you.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
And we appreciate you .
Speaker 2 (24:22):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
Until next time.
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