December 25, 2024 • 26 mins
Did you know frankincense is from the Boswellia plant? Tina and Leah delve into frankincense's history, uses, and benefits, especially in integrative cancer care. They discuss how to test the purity of essential oils, the various therapeutic applications of frankincense, including its anti-inflammatory and potential anti-cancer properties, and the intricacies of using it safely.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Tina (00:00):
And the way to know it's the good stuff when it comes to
(00:02):
an essential oil is to take apaper towel, Or a napkin.
Put a drop on there, of youressential oil that you bought.
Of whatever essential oil, notjust frankincense.
And when you come back later,you should not see that drop at
all.
If there's any oily residue lefton that napkin, or paper towel,
then it's not a pure essentialoil.
Leah (00:23):
I'm Dr.
Tina Kaczor and as Leah likes tosay, I'm the science y one.
And I'm Dr.
Leah Sherman, and I'm the cancerinsider.
And we're two naturopathicdoctors who practice integrative
cancer care.
But we're not your doctors.
This is for education,entertainment, and informational
purposes only.
Do not apply any of thisinformation without first
(00:44):
speaking to your doctor.
The views and opinions expressedon this podcast by the hosts and
their guests
Tina (00:50):
are solely their own.
Welcome to the Cancer Pod.
Leah (01:09):
Hey, Tina.
Tina (01:10):
Hey, Leah.
Leah (01:11):
Today is our second holiday mini episode.
And we're talking aboutfrankincense.
Tina (01:18):
Yeah, frankincense.
We're all familiar with it.
I talked to my mother earlier,and she's like frankincense.
remind me.
What is it?
Leah (01:26):
Well, some people, maybe not your mom, but some people
may know of it as Boswellia.
Tina (01:32):
Yes, frankincense is the resin, the hardened resin, from
the plant Boswellia.
Leah (01:38):
And Boswellia is used in a lot of formulas, that people who
are into taking supplements ornatural medicine, they may be
familiar with that.
Um, frankincense is.
It's traditionally thought of, Imean, with the two things that
we chose to talk about thisholiday season, um, myrrh and
frankincense were gifts of theMagi.
Tina (01:59):
Yeah, so in case, Christian faiths, they're known
as the gifts of the Magi or thethree kings or how we want to
refer to that.
Um, it's also used in otherreligious customs as well.
So it is used in the Islamicfaith.
It's used in Buddhism.
Um, it's used throughout theworld probably because it's been
around since at least 3000 BC asa commodity and as a ritual
(02:23):
scent and perhaps as a medicinethat long as well.
Leah (02:27):
Yeah, it's been used in Ayurveda and Ayurveda has been
around for thousands andthousands of years.
That's the traditional medicineof India.
Um, it has been used in variousformulas, for treating arthritis
or coughs, ulcerative colitis,wound healing, you know, so it's
a lot of kind of similar thingsas myrrh.
Tina (02:48):
Yeah, interesting.
It's also used in, um,purification ceremonies and most
of these religious ceremonies.
It's cleansing and purificationthat it's, it's touted for in
religious ceremonies.
And so it's still used todaythroughout the world.
Leah (03:03):
Isn't that what they burn in Catholic church?
What is the incense that they,they have in Catholic churches?
Tina (03:09):
You know I should know that, having gone to a Catholic
school.
I can picture it, I can evenhear the clinking of the, of it
going up and down the aisle, butI honestly don't know what was
in there.
Leah (03:18):
I'm going to do the Google because I have been to like, uh,
Christmas mass a few times, um,with friends, And so I'm going
to see if I can figure out whatthe incense
Tina (03:30):
can't say, here's, here's, here's my very rudimentary
thought about that, it's like, Iwas around a lot of that, having
gone to many masses throughoutmy life, going to Catholic
school and, and being aCatholic, practicing Catholic
back in the day, um, that said,when I smell the aroma of
frankincense, as in the,essential oil and we vaporize it
(03:50):
or diffuse it, which we've donequite a bit of in my house, it
doesn't smell familiar to me atall.
Leah (03:56):
Well, cause it's a common, apparently according to the
internet, it's a combination offrankincense and myrrh that they
burn in Catholic churches.
Tina (04:02):
Oh, that's it, huh?
Frankincense and myrrh together.
Leah (04:04):
mm hmm.
Yeah, I don't really like thesmell of frankincense, um I
remember when I was goingthrough treatment, I was using
it topically, the essential oiltopically on my feet, just
because I was having such badneuropathy and I was just trying
everything.
maybe that's why I don't likethe smell, because it kind of
reminds me of that.
But even then, I didn't, I wouldmix it with other things because
(04:27):
I was like, it's not my favoritesmell.
Tina (04:29):
Yeah, and the Murr was our last episode.
Frankincense and Murr were partof what was known as the incense
route, the trade route betweenthe Arabian Peninsula and the
Mediterranean countries, whatare now in Mediterranean
countries.
So I'm just saying that becausemultiple religions around the
world using the same materialsfor their ceremonies is really
kind of a fascinating historicalperspective to me.
Leah (04:51):
Oh, absolutely.
I like the history part of allof that.
Tina (04:55):
Yeah.
so the frankincense, the wayit's gotten from the Boswellia
species, and there are,Boswellia is the plant, again,
that's the Latin name for theplant that this frankincense is
derived from.
There are different Boswelliaspecies depending where you are
geographically.
So the one that we're familiarwith in our supplements is often
Boswellia serrata, which isfrom, mostly from India.
(05:18):
But there are other Boswelliaspecies, all of which have
different types, slightlydifferent types of frankincense
and different qualities,apparently, of the frankincense
that are derived from thevarious species of Boswellia,
which I only found out when Iwas kind of reading up on this
right now.
Leah (05:33):
Yeah.
Cause I only think of theBoswellia serrata.
So yeah, well, I mean, it makessense that there would be
different types that would growin different countries and have
slightly different properties.
Tina (05:42):
Yeah.
And just like the myrrh, this iswhat is gotten from the resin or
the, sap.
So there's a very special way towound the Boswellia plant so
that it oozes out the substance,Looks like, you know, what we
think of when a tree getswounded and that sap comes out.
Looks like that, and then theylet it harden on the tree, and
then they harvest that.
And so they know how to woundthe tree.
(06:04):
In such a way as not to harm itso that it will continually
produce.
It does have to be an adulttree.
You can't do it to a sapling.
So it's, it's quite a involvedprocess, but clearly a very
traditional process because it'sbeen going on for thousands of
years.
Leah (06:17):
And the, fragrance properties are it's earthy,
piney, woodsy, and spicy.
Tina (06:24):
Okay.
Leah (06:26):
Do you, do you see that?
I mean, it's been a while sinceI was looking through my, um, my
essential oils and I don't thinkI have any frankincense right
now.
but yeah, earthy for sure.
Tina (06:36):
earthy for sure.
Leah (06:37):
Piney?
Tina (06:39):
It's interesting.
I looked at some of the, uh, inthe essential oil of
frankincense, which is a littlebit more expensive than a lot of
other essential oils.
A really pure essential oil offrankincense costs more than it
would if it were, you know,essential oil of orange or
lavender or something That cangrow in abundance.
it's really costly when it's thegood stuff.
And the way to know it's thegood stuff when it comes to an
(07:00):
essential oil is to take a papertowel, Or a napkin.
Put a drop on there, of youressential oil that you bought.
Of whatever essential oil, notjust frankincense.
And when you come back later,you should not see that drop at
all.
If there's any oily residue lefton that napkin, or paper towel,
then it's not a pure essentialoil.
Essential oils are completelyvolatile.
Leah (07:21):
That is a great tip because I think there are a lot
of people who wonder how do youTell the quality of an essential
oil when there's really no like,um, I don't want to say
governing body, but there's nolike real way of like certifying
whether something is pure ornot.
So that's a really, that is ahandy tip.
Tina (07:41):
Yep.
Leah (07:42):
That's going to be a sound bite.
I declare.
Tina (07:47):
declare.
Well, except, So the boswellicacids is what the plant is most
well known for, and how weconcentrate them in amounts that
we can have.
Very strong anti inflammatoryeffects.
Frankincense does have them, TheBoswellic acids.
It doesn't have it in thequantity we can put into a
capsule from the plant itself.
So you can harvest the plant andkind of extract a lot more
(08:08):
boswellic acid from the plantmaterial.
And more cost effective becausefrankincense is more costly to
produce and to, and to, uh,create the essential oil.
Leah (08:19):
And I would think to standardize,
Tina (08:21):
Yeah, I think of the elements in, in the essential
oil and then there's limonene isin there.
Pinene is in there.
I think there's a little mentholin there.
So what's interesting aboutessential oils is these chemical
compounds like menthol, whichthat's one we're all familiar
with.
There's a little bit in, inother plants besides the mint,
like menthol is classically inpeppermint, wintergreen,
(08:44):
spearmint.
That's what gives it that scentof mint is really menthol.
Um, there is a little bit in, inthe frankincense essential oil.
So I think when we look at theproperties of the frankincense
and what it does, you mentionedanti inflammatory.
Did you mention arthritis?
Leah (09:02):
uh, that's what I know that that's what Boswellia is
used for in Ayurveda, but Ididn't say specifically with
frankincense.
Tina (09:09):
I think that, there's a ton of crossover between the
two, between the frankincenseand the boswellia.
Especially when it comes to antiinflammatory and anti arthritic
effects.
Leah (09:19):
So frankincense specifically, is there anything,
um, Are there studies specificto frankincense and cancer
Tina (09:26):
one of them that I remember very well.
was frankincense used, uh, as acheek swab.
So they took frankincenseessential oil, and I don't think
they, I don't know if they useda carrier oil with it or not,
but they would put it insidepeople's mucous membranes inside
their mouths, on their cheeks,to elicit an anti inflammatory
effect systemically.
(09:47):
I have to say one caveatwhenever we talk about plants is
allergies are always possible.
So a contact allergy is possiblewith absolutely any plant.
So people have to make surebefore they go using any plant
substance that, they don't havean allergy to it, especially if
they're highly allergic people,you know, if you already have,
you know, grasses and trees andsuch, then just make sure you're
not allergic to the very plantyou think is helping you out.
Leah (10:09):
I think like we mentioned with Murrah, there are studies
looking at frankincense oil,various cell studies, looking at
frankincense essential oil and,um, the effect on different
cancer cells like melanoma.
Um, but again, that's sodifferent than a human study.
Tina (10:27):
Yeah.
Leah (10:28):
Cause I think like in the, in the kind of multi level
marketing, essential oil world,
Tina (10:34):
Mm hmm.
Leah (10:35):
uh, frankincense is really pushed as anti cancer
Tina (10:38):
Probably because of its strong anti inflammatory effect,
right?
Cause it, Has an effect on NFkappa B.
NF kappa B is that mechanismthat they often write about.
People might be familiar withthat, that acronym, NF kappa B.
It stands for nuclear factorkappa B, and that it's blocking
in a very influentialinflammatory pathway within the
(11:01):
cells.
And it does do that.
Frankincense does that.
Boswellic acid does that.
Um, even some of the other,terpenes, which are the, the
menthols and eugenols andpinene, all these other
compounds in the frankincenseessential oil.
They all are strong, uh,inhibitors.
That said, that boswellic acidis probably the most well proven
(11:25):
one and you can get it moreeasily.
Cost effectively from theBoswellia plant than you can
from the frankincense essentialoil, but the one thing I will
say this the one time I usefrankincense in my practice.
I would use frankincense themost for people with brain
tumors.
Leah (11:42):
because there wasn't, there were studies showing that
it reduced, edema in the brain,but it doesn't reduce tumor
size.
So swelling, swelling in thebrain.
Tina (11:51):
Yeah, so Boswellic acids in particular so Boswellia and
very high dose by the way, itwas taken in a very very high
dose So if you can't swallowthat many capsules of Boswellia,
then it's hard to get the doseYou need to lower brain swelling
but there was a study So thatwas part of it.
And also because there's only somany capsules you can take in a
(12:11):
day, I would often just havepeople get a diffuser and put
frankincense in their diffuser,their aromatherapy, and inhale
it because the fastest way tothe brain.
is through your olfactory bulb.
So if you inhale the diffusionof this in the air, you
basically, you're making avapor, the vapor particles hold
(12:32):
some of the frankincenseessential oil, and you On them.
And you're inhaling it throughyour nose.
In particular, you can godirectly to the brain, you can,
you're basically deliveringwhatever you're inhaling is
being delivered very close to,or directly into the brain, you
can consider, consider it.
So I often have people do thatand I also had people put it.
You know, on their cheek, justtake a drop, put it on their
Leah (12:55):
On the inside of the mouth, the inside of the mouth.
Yeah.
Not like on the outside cheek onthe mucous membranes.
Tina (13:01):
Yes.
Inside on the mucosa.
Mm.
Yeah, and it seemed to be veryhelpful for that.
My one caveat to allaromatherapy and essential oils
and diffusers is, they can bevery, rather drying to tissues.
So, um, I did have a patient whothought more was better, and
just set up a, like a, diffuserovernight, every night, and had,
(13:21):
and I don't think this was withfrankincense, but this was
another essential oil they hadkind of in the air, and they
used enough of it that, It endedup kind of just drying them out
because, uh, essential oils canhave that effect if you do, if
you inhale too much of them.
Leah (13:34):
Yeah, and I think people tend to do that.
I think people tend to, when,you know, it's that typical
thing of it says like two tothree drops or however many
drops it says.
And I think as humans, we justlike to really ramp it up and do
more than you're supposed to.
And yeah, I could see that beingreally irritating.
Tina (13:52):
Yes, they all can irritate the GI lining too.
So if, some people Take thoseessential oils, especially some
of these companies that sellessential oils, advocate for
people to put them in capsulesand swallow them,
Leah (14:03):
Yeah.
Tina (14:04):
can cause gastritis for a lot of folks.
So, so you do have to be carefulnot to take in too much.
Leah (14:10):
Yeah.
And I would caution againstanyone who is in treatment,
taking any essential oilsinternally Because of that,
because of potential forgastritis and then potential for
interactions with medications,because they are so strong.
They're so powerful that, um, Ijust mean like essential oils in
general.
I'm not saying like in a, likein a healing sense, them being
(14:32):
so powerful.
I just mean like, I mean, you'rejust taking like pure straight
you know, so just being reallycareful because they have been
shown to interact with a lot ofdifferent, um, pathways that
medications are metabolized.
So yeah, I typically advise mypatients not to do internal
essential oils, you know,especially if it's coming from
(14:54):
something that it's, it's notfrom somebody who knows what
they're doing.
And I don't necessarily thinkthat a lot of those, MLM places
are authorities on takinginternal essential oils.
I mean, a lot of aromatherapistsare very like cautious about
that too.
So, you know, people who aretrained and certified in that,
Tina (15:14):
Yes.
Yes.
Leah (15:16):
we've talked about this before, so I don't want to like
go back into it, but
Tina (15:19):
No, it's important to work with someone who's been trained
in it and whenever there'sanything that's powerful
medicine, whether it'saromatherapy, which can be a
powerful medicine or, essentialoils, botanical medicine, you
just make sure the person you'reworking with is well trained
because it means that you haveto be careful, you know, not
everything is that's natural issafe.
(15:41):
So just have to work with thefolks who know what they're
doing.
And then, then it's safe becausethey can give you the
cautionaries.
So I'm trying to think ifthere's anything else.
We mentioned anti inflammatory,pain relief, analgesic.
So pain relieving propertiesare, are well known for
frankincense.
Um, like you said, you wereusing for neuropathy.
(16:02):
I think that was a topical painrelief, right.
Leah (16:05):
Yeah.
And honestly, I don't rememberif it was helpful.
I was doing so much, but, um, itwas just one more thing.
That I added in,
Tina (16:15):
Yeah,
Leah (16:16):
you know, and just, just massaging my feet in general was
helpful.
So, but yeah, I was tryingeverything and I just thought,
well, you know, let's, let's seeif that works.
Tina (16:25):
mm hmm.
And like you mentioned, it hassome direct anti cancer
properties, but it tends to bein a dish, which is not
shocking.
Most essential oils are gonnahave some effect in a dish
because they're so strong.
Um, I did come across, and Ithink this still is anti
inflammatory, they're using itat least in preliminary Data for
(16:46):
neurodegeneration.
I think this goes back togetting an anti inflammatory
effect in the brain.
Um, but they're using it forAlzheimer's, dementia, that kind
of thing, to, uh, lessen theneurodegeneration from disease
states.
So that's pretty preliminary.
That's not, there's no greatoutcome studies, but it does
make intuitive sense that if youlower neuro inflammation, you
(17:08):
will improve brain function andmaybe even lessen anxiety
because anxiety is also can bean inflammatory state.
Leah (17:14):
there was a study looking at, um, cancer related fatigue
in frankincense oil.
Tina (17:19):
Mm.
Leah (17:20):
it was a small study, like 70 something people, and they
did not find any statisticallysignificant changes in fatigue
in the group.
That was using the essentialoil.
Oh, well, the study wasn't evenusing it as like aromatherapy.
They were applying it to theirfeet.
So.
Tina (17:39):
So they were applying the essential oil to their feet for
cancer related fatigue.
Leah (17:43):
Mm hmm twice a day two days before receiving
chemotherapy while receivingchemotherapy in two days after
but they didn't find anysignificant
Tina (17:52):
And they didn't combine that with others.
It was just frankincense.
Leah (17:55):
Mm hmm
Tina (17:56):
But that's not a traditional use, so I guess it's
not that surprising.
Leah (17:59):
Yeah, yeah at first I thought the study was about
losing it as like actually likean inhalation But no it was
applied to the feet, but Iwonder what their neuropathy was
like
Tina (18:09):
This is a good question.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Leah (18:12):
They weren't tired, but they had no neuropathy
Tina (18:15):
I mean, it's interesting because topically, I know that
it's been used for woundhealing, right?
And scar reduction.
That's a traditional use forfrankincense.
It's also antibacterial, so itmight limit the infection risk.
The essential oils themselvesare, are Strong enough to never
put on a open wound or open skinwithout a carrier oil.
(18:39):
So you'd have to dilute it a lotto put it on a cut or an
abrasion.
Um, so it might be part of asalve or part of a Of an oil.
But if You put a drop of pureessential oil on a cut, it would
not be helpful.
That it's too caustic.
It would actually probably harmit.
It would probably not help woundhealing.
You'd have to put it in acarrier oil, like almond or
olive or something, a drop in ateaspoon, a drop in a
(19:01):
tablespoon.
Like you'd have to really diluteit.
Then it might have some effect.
You know, that's, it's one ofthe things we should talk about
more often is dosing.
I'm a, I'm a big, you know, um,I talk a lot about dosing with
patients, like a dose makes thedifference.
You know, a little bit ofvitamin C is anti oxidative, but
intravenous vitamin C isactually an oxidant at the
(19:23):
opposite effect in huge doses.
So we always have to keep inmind dose makes a huge
difference in a given naturalmedicine is going to do or is
expected to do.
So in the case of essentialoils, very seldom do you use
them without diluting them.
Maybe in a diffuser is the onlytime I can think of that.
I.
would do it or if people put itone drop on the inside of their
(19:45):
cheek.
That's it.
Leah (19:47):
You wouldn't dilute it for, when putting it in your
mouth.
Tina (19:51):
No, mostly for ease of use, um, because most of the
time people can just put onedrop, you know, on their cheek.
And I usually do the cheek, notunder the tongue because the
cheek can handle it, but underthe tongue is, is more tender
tissue.
So, just like tinctures, I don'thave people go under the tongue
for that either.
And
Leah (20:12):
one thing that is really interesting is that frankincense
and myrrh have been looked at,those essential oils have been
looked at together for,neuropathy.
I was reading some of thestudies that they do on mice and
I just, I couldn't read them, itwas a little gruesome for me,
but they were doing mousestudies looking at the effect,
um, to help with.
With various types of pain, so,um, and there are diabetic foot
(20:37):
creams and stuff that you canfind at like your local
drugstore that have theseessential oils in them.
What I find is that sometimesthey also have homeopathy in
them, and that just seems weirdand random because if you learn
about homeopathy, you'll learnyou're not supposed to like,
expose it to strong scents, andthen they mix in like, Arnica!
(20:58):
With frankincense and myrrh andpeppermint and all these really,
really random things.
So anyways, that's an aside.
But yeah, you can find theseformulas, which I'm sure I have
recommended to patients in thepast who've had neuropathy who
are just kind of tryingeverything topical.
Tina (21:15):
as you mentioned earlier, Boswellia, the plant that
frankincense is is It's oftenused as an anti inflammatory.
So I wonder if some of theeffects of the myrrh
frankincense together are alsojust having a net anti
inflammatory effect.
Leah (21:30):
But I also think that because peppermint's been looked
at topically because the mentholaffects certain, pain receptors.
And so those properties withinthe frankincense, and Marie said
that the frankincense has, um,you know, menthol properties in
it, and then there's the wholething about all the terpenes and
all of that kind of, I mean, allof that stuff, I'm not that well
versed, but, um, or versed atall.
(21:52):
So I don't know.
I, I think it's kind of a, acool thing.
The frankincense.
And the mer together.
I mean, just because that's howthey're known historically.
I mean, they've been used thatway as Mutuals for a really long
time.
So yeah, maybe there's somethingto it
Tina (22:08):
Yeah, that's true.
Maybe they, maybe one plus onedoesn't equal two.
Maybe it equals three or four orfive.
Leah (22:13):
or maybe one plus one equals one
Tina (22:16):
Ooh.
Deep.
Leah (22:17):
Hmm.
Thank you
Tina (22:20):
All right.
So let's summarize.
Mm
Leah (22:23):
been used for thousands of years in traditional cultures.
It's been used in religiousceremonies, in funeral, um, oh,
we didn't mention that, but itis.
It's used in like funeral,funereal ceremonies.
yeah, it goes well with myrrh.
It's anti inflammatory.
Tina (22:43):
Uh huh.
That's a big claim to fame.
Mm hmm.
Leah (22:45):
Yep.
Tina (22:46):
And in the cancer world, probably most used as an anti
inflammatory substance ingeneral and brain tumors and
edema, which is a swellingaround the brain that's been
used quite a bit for in highdoses.
Leah (23:00):
Yeah, and I believe people even used less steroids in the
study.
It's like, people required less,fewer steroids.
So,
Tina (23:11):
Yes, which is, that's when you want to be working closely
with someone because that is notsomething you want to fool
around with.
Steroids and brain swelling isnot something anyone should
tackle on their own.
That needs to be watchedcarefully and in conjunction
with the prescribing doctorbecause, uh, it is possible to,
to find ways to limit, if noteliminate steroids.
for some people who have brainswelling, but not everybody.
(23:34):
And it has to be done reallycarefully and with a lot of
attention to detail.
Um, So, don't ever try that onyour own.
Cause that could be really Imean, dangerous to do without
guidance.
Leah (23:47):
oh, yeah, don't do anything that we say on your
own.
Don't do anything that we say
Tina (23:50):
Yeah, Leia's more, like, you're more conservative than
me.
I only say it when it's like, ohno, you're going to hurt
yourself.
Like this is, this is big.
Yeah.
Leah (23:58):
I say it all the
Tina (23:59):
You say it so, it's like, it's like the boy who cries wolf
when you say it.
Everyone's like, yeah, yeah, butthat's just Leia
Leah (24:05):
Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey Okay, if you like what you hear
regardless of my saying don't doit or not.
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and we have a membership throughbuy me a coffee and you can find
(24:29):
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And so we need to be able to payfor all of the things that
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Tina (24:49):
The software.
Yeah.
Leah (24:50):
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for, but all of our equipment'spaid for.
But yeah, it's the software thatum,
Tina (25:01):
Yeah.
So.
If you do join our membership,you will have access to us.
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We can answer your questions.
Leah (25:11):
yeah, we'll be doing lives and so depending on the level of
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So on
Tina (25:21):
so check it out.
And our website is thecancerpod.
com.
Leah (25:25):
that note, I'm Dr.
Leah Sherman
Tina (25:27):
And I'm Dr.
Tina Kaczor
Leah (25:29):
and this is the Cancer Pod.
Tina (25:31):
Until next time.
Leah (25:31):
Thanks for listening to the cancer pod.
Remember to subscribe, reviewand rate us wherever you get
your podcasts.
Follow us on social media forupdates, and as always, this is
not medical advice.
These are our opinions.
Talk to your doctor, but forchanging anything related to
your treatment plan.
The cancer pod is hosted by me,Dr.
(25:51):
Leah Sherman.
And by Dr.
Tina Kaczor music is by KevinSee you next time.
And the way to know it's the good stuff when it comes to
(00:02):
an essential oil is to take apaper towel, Or a napkin.
Put a drop on there, of youressential oil that you bought.
Of whatever essential oil, notjust frankincense.
And when you come back later,you should not see that drop at
all.
If there's any oily residue lefton that napkin, or paper towel,
then it's not a pure essentialoil.
Leah (00:23):
I'm Dr.
Tina Kaczor and as Leah likes tosay, I'm the science y one.
And I'm Dr.
Leah Sherman, and I'm the cancerinsider.
And we're two naturopathicdoctors who practice integrative
cancer care.
But we're not your doctors.
This is for education,entertainment, and informational
purposes only.
Do not apply any of thisinformation without first
(00:44):
speaking to your doctor.
The views and opinions expressedon this podcast by the hosts and
their guests
Tina (00:50):
are solely their own.
Welcome to the Cancer Pod.
Leah (01:09):
Hey, Tina.
Tina (01:10):
Hey, Leah.
Leah (01:11):
Today is our second holiday mini episode.
And we're talking aboutfrankincense.
Tina (01:18):
Yeah, frankincense.
We're all familiar with it.
I talked to my mother earlier,and she's like frankincense.
remind me.
What is it?
Leah (01:26):
Well, some people, maybe not your mom, but some people
may know of it as Boswellia.
Tina (01:32):
Yes, frankincense is the resin, the hardened resin, from
the plant Boswellia.
Leah (01:38):
And Boswellia is used in a lot of formulas, that people who
are into taking supplements ornatural medicine, they may be
familiar with that.
Um, frankincense is.
It's traditionally thought of, Imean, with the two things that
we chose to talk about thisholiday season, um, myrrh and
frankincense were gifts of theMagi.
Tina (01:59):
Yeah, so in case, Christian faiths, they're known
as the gifts of the Magi or thethree kings or how we want to
refer to that.
Um, it's also used in otherreligious customs as well.
So it is used in the Islamicfaith.
It's used in Buddhism.
Um, it's used throughout theworld probably because it's been
around since at least 3000 BC asa commodity and as a ritual
(02:23):
scent and perhaps as a medicinethat long as well.
Leah (02:27):
Yeah, it's been used in Ayurveda and Ayurveda has been
around for thousands andthousands of years.
That's the traditional medicineof India.
Um, it has been used in variousformulas, for treating arthritis
or coughs, ulcerative colitis,wound healing, you know, so it's
a lot of kind of similar thingsas myrrh.
Tina (02:48):
Yeah, interesting.
It's also used in, um,purification ceremonies and most
of these religious ceremonies.
It's cleansing and purificationthat it's, it's touted for in
religious ceremonies.
And so it's still used todaythroughout the world.
Leah (03:03):
Isn't that what they burn in Catholic church?
What is the incense that they,they have in Catholic churches?
Tina (03:09):
You know I should know that, having gone to a Catholic
school.
I can picture it, I can evenhear the clinking of the, of it
going up and down the aisle, butI honestly don't know what was
in there.
Leah (03:18):
I'm going to do the Google because I have been to like, uh,
Christmas mass a few times, um,with friends, And so I'm going
to see if I can figure out whatthe incense
Tina (03:30):
can't say, here's, here's, here's my very rudimentary
thought about that, it's like, Iwas around a lot of that, having
gone to many masses throughoutmy life, going to Catholic
school and, and being aCatholic, practicing Catholic
back in the day, um, that said,when I smell the aroma of
frankincense, as in the,essential oil and we vaporize it
(03:50):
or diffuse it, which we've donequite a bit of in my house, it
doesn't smell familiar to me atall.
Leah (03:56):
Well, cause it's a common, apparently according to the
internet, it's a combination offrankincense and myrrh that they
burn in Catholic churches.
Tina (04:02):
Oh, that's it, huh?
Frankincense and myrrh together.
Leah (04:04):
mm hmm.
Yeah, I don't really like thesmell of frankincense, um I
remember when I was goingthrough treatment, I was using
it topically, the essential oiltopically on my feet, just
because I was having such badneuropathy and I was just trying
everything.
maybe that's why I don't likethe smell, because it kind of
reminds me of that.
But even then, I didn't, I wouldmix it with other things because
(04:27):
I was like, it's not my favoritesmell.
Tina (04:29):
Yeah, and the Murr was our last episode.
Frankincense and Murr were partof what was known as the incense
route, the trade route betweenthe Arabian Peninsula and the
Mediterranean countries, whatare now in Mediterranean
countries.
So I'm just saying that becausemultiple religions around the
world using the same materialsfor their ceremonies is really
kind of a fascinating historicalperspective to me.
Leah (04:51):
Oh, absolutely.
I like the history part of allof that.
Tina (04:55):
Yeah.
so the frankincense, the wayit's gotten from the Boswellia
species, and there are,Boswellia is the plant, again,
that's the Latin name for theplant that this frankincense is
derived from.
There are different Boswelliaspecies depending where you are
geographically.
So the one that we're familiarwith in our supplements is often
Boswellia serrata, which isfrom, mostly from India.
(05:18):
But there are other Boswelliaspecies, all of which have
different types, slightlydifferent types of frankincense
and different qualities,apparently, of the frankincense
that are derived from thevarious species of Boswellia,
which I only found out when Iwas kind of reading up on this
right now.
Leah (05:33):
Yeah.
Cause I only think of theBoswellia serrata.
So yeah, well, I mean, it makessense that there would be
different types that would growin different countries and have
slightly different properties.
Tina (05:42):
Yeah.
And just like the myrrh, this iswhat is gotten from the resin or
the, sap.
So there's a very special way towound the Boswellia plant so
that it oozes out the substance,Looks like, you know, what we
think of when a tree getswounded and that sap comes out.
Looks like that, and then theylet it harden on the tree, and
then they harvest that.
And so they know how to woundthe tree.
(06:04):
In such a way as not to harm itso that it will continually
produce.
It does have to be an adulttree.
You can't do it to a sapling.
So it's, it's quite a involvedprocess, but clearly a very
traditional process because it'sbeen going on for thousands of
years.
Leah (06:17):
And the, fragrance properties are it's earthy,
piney, woodsy, and spicy.
Tina (06:24):
Okay.
Leah (06:26):
Do you, do you see that?
I mean, it's been a while sinceI was looking through my, um, my
essential oils and I don't thinkI have any frankincense right
now.
but yeah, earthy for sure.
Tina (06:36):
earthy for sure.
Leah (06:37):
Piney?
Tina (06:39):
It's interesting.
I looked at some of the, uh, inthe essential oil of
frankincense, which is a littlebit more expensive than a lot of
other essential oils.
A really pure essential oil offrankincense costs more than it
would if it were, you know,essential oil of orange or
lavender or something That cangrow in abundance.
it's really costly when it's thegood stuff.
And the way to know it's thegood stuff when it comes to an
(07:00):
essential oil is to take a papertowel, Or a napkin.
Put a drop on there, of youressential oil that you bought.
Of whatever essential oil, notjust frankincense.
And when you come back later,you should not see that drop at
all.
If there's any oily residue lefton that napkin, or paper towel,
then it's not a pure essentialoil.
Essential oils are completelyvolatile.
Leah (07:21):
That is a great tip because I think there are a lot
of people who wonder how do youTell the quality of an essential
oil when there's really no like,um, I don't want to say
governing body, but there's nolike real way of like certifying
whether something is pure ornot.
So that's a really, that is ahandy tip.
Tina (07:41):
Yep.
Leah (07:42):
That's going to be a sound bite.
I declare.
Tina (07:47):
declare.
Well, except, So the boswellicacids is what the plant is most
well known for, and how weconcentrate them in amounts that
we can have.
Very strong anti inflammatoryeffects.
Frankincense does have them, TheBoswellic acids.
It doesn't have it in thequantity we can put into a
capsule from the plant itself.
So you can harvest the plant andkind of extract a lot more
(08:08):
boswellic acid from the plantmaterial.
And more cost effective becausefrankincense is more costly to
produce and to, and to, uh,create the essential oil.
Leah (08:19):
And I would think to standardize,
Tina (08:21):
Yeah, I think of the elements in, in the essential
oil and then there's limonene isin there.
Pinene is in there.
I think there's a little mentholin there.
So what's interesting aboutessential oils is these chemical
compounds like menthol, whichthat's one we're all familiar
with.
There's a little bit in, inother plants besides the mint,
like menthol is classically inpeppermint, wintergreen,
(08:44):
spearmint.
That's what gives it that scentof mint is really menthol.
Um, there is a little bit in, inthe frankincense essential oil.
So I think when we look at theproperties of the frankincense
and what it does, you mentionedanti inflammatory.
Did you mention arthritis?
Leah (09:02):
uh, that's what I know that that's what Boswellia is
used for in Ayurveda, but Ididn't say specifically with
frankincense.
Tina (09:09):
I think that, there's a ton of crossover between the
two, between the frankincenseand the boswellia.
Especially when it comes to antiinflammatory and anti arthritic
effects.
Leah (09:19):
So frankincense specifically, is there anything,
um, Are there studies specificto frankincense and cancer
Tina (09:26):
one of them that I remember very well.
was frankincense used, uh, as acheek swab.
So they took frankincenseessential oil, and I don't think
they, I don't know if they useda carrier oil with it or not,
but they would put it insidepeople's mucous membranes inside
their mouths, on their cheeks,to elicit an anti inflammatory
effect systemically.
(09:47):
I have to say one caveatwhenever we talk about plants is
allergies are always possible.
So a contact allergy is possiblewith absolutely any plant.
So people have to make surebefore they go using any plant
substance that, they don't havean allergy to it, especially if
they're highly allergic people,you know, if you already have,
you know, grasses and trees andsuch, then just make sure you're
not allergic to the very plantyou think is helping you out.
Leah (10:09):
I think like we mentioned with Murrah, there are studies
looking at frankincense oil,various cell studies, looking at
frankincense essential oil and,um, the effect on different
cancer cells like melanoma.
Um, but again, that's sodifferent than a human study.
Tina (10:27):
Yeah.
Leah (10:28):
Cause I think like in the, in the kind of multi level
marketing, essential oil world,
Tina (10:34):
Mm hmm.
Leah (10:35):
uh, frankincense is really pushed as anti cancer
Tina (10:38):
Probably because of its strong anti inflammatory effect,
right?
Cause it, Has an effect on NFkappa B.
NF kappa B is that mechanismthat they often write about.
People might be familiar withthat, that acronym, NF kappa B.
It stands for nuclear factorkappa B, and that it's blocking
in a very influentialinflammatory pathway within the
(11:01):
cells.
And it does do that.
Frankincense does that.
Boswellic acid does that.
Um, even some of the other,terpenes, which are the, the
menthols and eugenols andpinene, all these other
compounds in the frankincenseessential oil.
They all are strong, uh,inhibitors.
That said, that boswellic acidis probably the most well proven
(11:25):
one and you can get it moreeasily.
Cost effectively from theBoswellia plant than you can
from the frankincense essentialoil, but the one thing I will
say this the one time I usefrankincense in my practice.
I would use frankincense themost for people with brain
tumors.
Leah (11:42):
because there wasn't, there were studies showing that
it reduced, edema in the brain,but it doesn't reduce tumor
size.
So swelling, swelling in thebrain.
Tina (11:51):
Yeah, so Boswellic acids in particular so Boswellia and
very high dose by the way, itwas taken in a very very high
dose So if you can't swallowthat many capsules of Boswellia,
then it's hard to get the doseYou need to lower brain swelling
but there was a study So thatwas part of it.
And also because there's only somany capsules you can take in a
(12:11):
day, I would often just havepeople get a diffuser and put
frankincense in their diffuser,their aromatherapy, and inhale
it because the fastest way tothe brain.
is through your olfactory bulb.
So if you inhale the diffusionof this in the air, you
basically, you're making avapor, the vapor particles hold
(12:32):
some of the frankincenseessential oil, and you On them.
And you're inhaling it throughyour nose.
In particular, you can godirectly to the brain, you can,
you're basically deliveringwhatever you're inhaling is
being delivered very close to,or directly into the brain, you
can consider, consider it.
So I often have people do thatand I also had people put it.
You know, on their cheek, justtake a drop, put it on their
Leah (12:55):
On the inside of the mouth, the inside of the mouth.
Yeah.
Not like on the outside cheek onthe mucous membranes.
Tina (13:01):
Yes.
Inside on the mucosa.
Mm.
Yeah, and it seemed to be veryhelpful for that.
My one caveat to allaromatherapy and essential oils
and diffusers is, they can bevery, rather drying to tissues.
So, um, I did have a patient whothought more was better, and
just set up a, like a, diffuserovernight, every night, and had,
(13:21):
and I don't think this was withfrankincense, but this was
another essential oil they hadkind of in the air, and they
used enough of it that, It endedup kind of just drying them out
because, uh, essential oils canhave that effect if you do, if
you inhale too much of them.
Leah (13:34):
Yeah, and I think people tend to do that.
I think people tend to, when,you know, it's that typical
thing of it says like two tothree drops or however many
drops it says.
And I think as humans, we justlike to really ramp it up and do
more than you're supposed to.
And yeah, I could see that beingreally irritating.
Tina (13:52):
Yes, they all can irritate the GI lining too.
So if, some people Take thoseessential oils, especially some
of these companies that sellessential oils, advocate for
people to put them in capsulesand swallow them,
Leah (14:03):
Yeah.
Tina (14:04):
can cause gastritis for a lot of folks.
So, so you do have to be carefulnot to take in too much.
Leah (14:10):
Yeah.
And I would caution againstanyone who is in treatment,
taking any essential oilsinternally Because of that,
because of potential forgastritis and then potential for
interactions with medications,because they are so strong.
They're so powerful that, um, Ijust mean like essential oils in
general.
I'm not saying like in a, likein a healing sense, them being
(14:32):
so powerful.
I just mean like, I mean, you'rejust taking like pure straight
you know, so just being reallycareful because they have been
shown to interact with a lot ofdifferent, um, pathways that
medications are metabolized.
So yeah, I typically advise mypatients not to do internal
essential oils, you know,especially if it's coming from
(14:54):
something that it's, it's notfrom somebody who knows what
they're doing.
And I don't necessarily thinkthat a lot of those, MLM places
are authorities on takinginternal essential oils.
I mean, a lot of aromatherapistsare very like cautious about
that too.
So, you know, people who aretrained and certified in that,
Tina (15:14):
Yes.
Yes.
Leah (15:16):
we've talked about this before, so I don't want to like
go back into it, but
Tina (15:19):
No, it's important to work with someone who's been trained
in it and whenever there'sanything that's powerful
medicine, whether it'saromatherapy, which can be a
powerful medicine or, essentialoils, botanical medicine, you
just make sure the person you'reworking with is well trained
because it means that you haveto be careful, you know, not
everything is that's natural issafe.
(15:41):
So just have to work with thefolks who know what they're
doing.
And then, then it's safe becausethey can give you the
cautionaries.
So I'm trying to think ifthere's anything else.
We mentioned anti inflammatory,pain relief, analgesic.
So pain relieving propertiesare, are well known for
frankincense.
Um, like you said, you wereusing for neuropathy.
(16:02):
I think that was a topical painrelief, right.
Leah (16:05):
Yeah.
And honestly, I don't rememberif it was helpful.
I was doing so much, but, um, itwas just one more thing.
That I added in,
Tina (16:15):
Yeah,
Leah (16:16):
you know, and just, just massaging my feet in general was
helpful.
So, but yeah, I was tryingeverything and I just thought,
well, you know, let's, let's seeif that works.
Tina (16:25):
mm hmm.
And like you mentioned, it hassome direct anti cancer
properties, but it tends to bein a dish, which is not
shocking.
Most essential oils are gonnahave some effect in a dish
because they're so strong.
Um, I did come across, and Ithink this still is anti
inflammatory, they're using itat least in preliminary Data for
(16:46):
neurodegeneration.
I think this goes back togetting an anti inflammatory
effect in the brain.
Um, but they're using it forAlzheimer's, dementia, that kind
of thing, to, uh, lessen theneurodegeneration from disease
states.
So that's pretty preliminary.
That's not, there's no greatoutcome studies, but it does
make intuitive sense that if youlower neuro inflammation, you
(17:08):
will improve brain function andmaybe even lessen anxiety
because anxiety is also can bean inflammatory state.
Leah (17:14):
there was a study looking at, um, cancer related fatigue
in frankincense oil.
Tina (17:19):
Mm.
Leah (17:20):
it was a small study, like 70 something people, and they
did not find any statisticallysignificant changes in fatigue
in the group.
That was using the essentialoil.
Oh, well, the study wasn't evenusing it as like aromatherapy.
They were applying it to theirfeet.
So.
Tina (17:39):
So they were applying the essential oil to their feet for
cancer related fatigue.
Leah (17:43):
Mm hmm twice a day two days before receiving
chemotherapy while receivingchemotherapy in two days after
but they didn't find anysignificant
Tina (17:52):
And they didn't combine that with others.
It was just frankincense.
Leah (17:55):
Mm hmm
Tina (17:56):
But that's not a traditional use, so I guess it's
not that surprising.
Leah (17:59):
Yeah, yeah at first I thought the study was about
losing it as like actually likean inhalation But no it was
applied to the feet, but Iwonder what their neuropathy was
like
Tina (18:09):
This is a good question.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Leah (18:12):
They weren't tired, but they had no neuropathy
Tina (18:15):
I mean, it's interesting because topically, I know that
it's been used for woundhealing, right?
And scar reduction.
That's a traditional use forfrankincense.
It's also antibacterial, so itmight limit the infection risk.
The essential oils themselvesare, are Strong enough to never
put on a open wound or open skinwithout a carrier oil.
(18:39):
So you'd have to dilute it a lotto put it on a cut or an
abrasion.
Um, so it might be part of asalve or part of a Of an oil.
But if You put a drop of pureessential oil on a cut, it would
not be helpful.
That it's too caustic.
It would actually probably harmit.
It would probably not help woundhealing.
You'd have to put it in acarrier oil, like almond or
olive or something, a drop in ateaspoon, a drop in a
(19:01):
tablespoon.
Like you'd have to really diluteit.
Then it might have some effect.
You know, that's, it's one ofthe things we should talk about
more often is dosing.
I'm a, I'm a big, you know, um,I talk a lot about dosing with
patients, like a dose makes thedifference.
You know, a little bit ofvitamin C is anti oxidative, but
intravenous vitamin C isactually an oxidant at the
(19:23):
opposite effect in huge doses.
So we always have to keep inmind dose makes a huge
difference in a given naturalmedicine is going to do or is
expected to do.
So in the case of essentialoils, very seldom do you use
them without diluting them.
Maybe in a diffuser is the onlytime I can think of that.
I.
would do it or if people put itone drop on the inside of their
(19:45):
cheek.
That's it.
Leah (19:47):
You wouldn't dilute it for, when putting it in your
mouth.
Tina (19:51):
No, mostly for ease of use, um, because most of the
time people can just put onedrop, you know, on their cheek.
And I usually do the cheek, notunder the tongue because the
cheek can handle it, but underthe tongue is, is more tender
tissue.
So, just like tinctures, I don'thave people go under the tongue
for that either.
And
Leah (20:12):
one thing that is really interesting is that frankincense
and myrrh have been looked at,those essential oils have been
looked at together for,neuropathy.
I was reading some of thestudies that they do on mice and
I just, I couldn't read them, itwas a little gruesome for me,
but they were doing mousestudies looking at the effect,
um, to help with.
With various types of pain, so,um, and there are diabetic foot
(20:37):
creams and stuff that you canfind at like your local
drugstore that have theseessential oils in them.
What I find is that sometimesthey also have homeopathy in
them, and that just seems weirdand random because if you learn
about homeopathy, you'll learnyou're not supposed to like,
expose it to strong scents, andthen they mix in like, Arnica!
(20:58):
With frankincense and myrrh andpeppermint and all these really,
really random things.
So anyways, that's an aside.
But yeah, you can find theseformulas, which I'm sure I have
recommended to patients in thepast who've had neuropathy who
are just kind of tryingeverything topical.
Tina (21:15):
as you mentioned earlier, Boswellia, the plant that
frankincense is is It's oftenused as an anti inflammatory.
So I wonder if some of theeffects of the myrrh
frankincense together are alsojust having a net anti
inflammatory effect.
Leah (21:30):
But I also think that because peppermint's been looked
at topically because the mentholaffects certain, pain receptors.
And so those properties withinthe frankincense, and Marie said
that the frankincense has, um,you know, menthol properties in
it, and then there's the wholething about all the terpenes and
all of that kind of, I mean, allof that stuff, I'm not that well
versed, but, um, or versed atall.
(21:52):
So I don't know.
I, I think it's kind of a, acool thing.
The frankincense.
And the mer together.
I mean, just because that's howthey're known historically.
I mean, they've been used thatway as Mutuals for a really long
time.
So yeah, maybe there's somethingto it
Tina (22:08):
Yeah, that's true.
Maybe they, maybe one plus onedoesn't equal two.
Maybe it equals three or four orfive.
Leah (22:13):
or maybe one plus one equals one
Tina (22:16):
Ooh.
Deep.
Leah (22:17):
Hmm.
Thank you
Tina (22:20):
All right.
So let's summarize.
Mm
Leah (22:23):
been used for thousands of years in traditional cultures.
It's been used in religiousceremonies, in funeral, um, oh,
we didn't mention that, but itis.
It's used in like funeral,funereal ceremonies.
yeah, it goes well with myrrh.
It's anti inflammatory.
Tina (22:43):
Uh huh.
That's a big claim to fame.
Mm hmm.
Leah (22:45):
Yep.
Tina (22:46):
And in the cancer world, probably most used as an anti
inflammatory substance ingeneral and brain tumors and
edema, which is a swellingaround the brain that's been
used quite a bit for in highdoses.
Leah (23:00):
Yeah, and I believe people even used less steroids in the
study.
It's like, people required less,fewer steroids.
So,
Tina (23:11):
Yes, which is, that's when you want to be working closely
with someone because that is notsomething you want to fool
around with.
Steroids and brain swelling isnot something anyone should
tackle on their own.
That needs to be watchedcarefully and in conjunction
with the prescribing doctorbecause, uh, it is possible to,
to find ways to limit, if noteliminate steroids.
for some people who have brainswelling, but not everybody.
(23:34):
And it has to be done reallycarefully and with a lot of
attention to detail.
Um, So, don't ever try that onyour own.
Cause that could be really Imean, dangerous to do without
guidance.
Leah (23:47):
oh, yeah, don't do anything that we say on your
own.
Don't do anything that we say
Tina (23:50):
Yeah, Leia's more, like, you're more conservative than
me.
I only say it when it's like, ohno, you're going to hurt
yourself.
Like this is, this is big.
Yeah.
Leah (23:58):
I say it all the
Tina (23:59):
You say it so, it's like, it's like the boy who cries wolf
when you say it.
Everyone's like, yeah, yeah, butthat's just Leia
Leah (24:05):
Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey Okay, if you like what you hear
regardless of my saying don't doit or not.
you can uh Follow us on socialmedia.
We're on instagram and twitterFacebook sporadically.
and we have a membership throughbuy me a coffee and you can find
(24:29):
that through our website.
And that's because we don'treally want to be influenced by
advertisers in any way.
And so we need to be able to payfor all of the things that
running a podcast entails, likethe things thing that we're
recording on right now.
Tina (24:49):
The software.
Yeah.
Leah (24:50):
program, the app, the software, and the computers paid
for, but all of our equipment'spaid for.
But yeah, it's the software thatum,
Tina (25:01):
Yeah.
So.
If you do join our membership,you will have access to us.
We can't give any medicalinformation, but we can give
general information.
We can answer your questions.
Leah (25:11):
yeah, we'll be doing lives and so depending on the level of
membership you'll either get aninvitation to an annual live
event or quarterly or monthly.
So on
Tina (25:21):
so check it out.
And our website is thecancerpod.
com.
Leah (25:25):
that note, I'm Dr.
Leah Sherman
Tina (25:27):
And I'm Dr.
Tina Kaczor
Leah (25:29):
and this is the Cancer Pod.
Tina (25:31):
Until next time.
Leah (25:31):
Thanks for listening to the cancer pod.
Remember to subscribe, reviewand rate us wherever you get
your podcasts.
Follow us on social media forupdates, and as always, this is
not medical advice.
These are our opinions.
Talk to your doctor, but forchanging anything related to
your treatment plan.
The cancer pod is hosted by me,Dr.
(25:51):
Leah Sherman.
And by Dr.
Tina Kaczor music is by KevinSee you next time.
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