June 26, 2024 • 32 mins
Tell us your thoughts on this episode!
Microplastics are not just around us, they are in us. These microscopic particles of plastic may be wreaking havoc on our health in many ways, and worsening cancer risk and prognosis is one of them. In this episode, Tina and Leah discuss microplastics and their potential link to cancer, particularly colorectal cancer. They explore sources of microplastics, from single-use plastic bottles to synthetic clothing, and highlight steps you can take to reduce your exposure. They also discuss the difficulties in eliminating microplastics already present in the body and suggest ways to excrete toxins in general. Join Tina and Leah as they shed light on this growing concern and offer practical advice for healthier living.
Things we mentioned (and promised we'd share) in this episode:
Articles and Studies:
Health Risks to Microplastics Pose? (Medscape, 2024)
Harvard Magazine Article on Microplastics
Washington Post article on microplastics, with a cool graphic!
Microplastics May Be a Driver of Early Onset Colorectal Cancer
Higher microplastics are found in those with Inflammatory Bowel Disease
Faster spread of cancer due to microplastics inside cancer cells
The actual study showing microplastics inside cancer cells increase migration
Evidence that "tighter" charcoal filters are better at reducing microplastics than "loose" charcoal.
The blood, urine, and sweat study shows excretion of BPA in sweat
Some lighter fare:
What is a #2 pencil?
How to freeze things without using plastic
Alpaca Underwear exists! And, it's available at Paka Apparel (we have no affiliation)
Merino Wool Activewear by Avala and
Our website: https://www.thecancerpod.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Leah (00:00):
Pass this on to friends.
(00:01):
If you've been trying toeliminate plastic in your life
and you have a friend or familymember who is just really, you
know, determined to not give uptheir single use plastic
bottles, you know, pass thisepisode on.
Tina (00:13):
I'm Dr Tina Kaczor and as Leah likes to say I'm the
science-y one
Leah (00:17):
and I'm Dr Leah Sherman and on the cancer inside
Tina (00:20):
And we're two naturopathic doctors who practice integrative
cancer care
Leah (00:25):
But we're not your doctors
Tina (00:27):
This is for education entertainment and informational
purposes only do not apply anyof this information
Leah (00:33):
without first speaking to your doctor
Tina (00:35):
The views and opinions expressed on this podcast by the
hosts and their guests aresolely their own
Leah (00:42):
Welcome to the cancer pod Hey, Tina.
Tina (01:00):
Hey, Leah.
Leah (01:01):
Microplastics.
They're everywhere in the news.
Tina (01:06):
Yeah, I was going to say they're everywhere in every
sense of the word.
Leah (01:08):
No, they are.
They're everywhere in the news.
They're everywhere.
Everywhere.
Tina (01:13):
Yeah.
Yeah.
It, it's finally hitting mainstreet news.
I think it's been in the newsbefore, but just not hitting
mass media until fairlyrecently.
Leah (01:23):
Well, as you had mentioned before we started recording,
there was that whole thing withthe plastic fibers from fleece
clothing.
Like I remember that from like,is that like 10 years ago or
something?
Tina (01:36):
Yeah, I think we heard about it because, um, Patagonia,
the brand, Patagonia, saw theproblem with washing some of the
fleece fibers and thenanoplastics that were coming
off of that and going into ourenvironment and started to try
to solve for the problem, so Ithink that they were the first
company that I know of, kind of,said, okay, we're going forward.
(01:58):
We're going to try to solve thisproblem.
Leah (02:00):
And you see it, you see it, like if you have fleece
blankets or fleece clothing and,you know, I'll run them through
the dryer on low.
And then you see all of thatlint that comes off of them in
the dryer.
And so what's coming off in thewash.
Tina (02:15):
Right.
That's what you can see.
And a lot of these plastics wecannot see.
Leah (02:19):
Right.
So what is a microplastic?
Like, I guess we can define Whatis that exactly?
Cause I'm seeing those fibers inmy lint tray, but are those
microplastics?
Tina (02:32):
Technically, if they're less than five millimeters in
length, they qualify as amicroplastic.
So
Leah (02:38):
That's big.
That's big.
Tina (02:40):
It's big! Five millimeters is the size of the eraser head.
Like a number two pencil, likethe eraser is five millimeters,
generally.
Leah (02:48):
Oh, that's what you judge like the size of a melanoma by
too, right?
The eraser?
Tina (02:53):
Yes.
Leah (02:53):
That's really big.
Tina (02:55):
And a lot of folks, if you're too young and you don't
know what a number two pencilis, you can look it up and
Google that.
Leah (02:59):
Oh, come on.
People know.
Here, look, here's a pencil.
Tina (03:01):
I don't think people use them all that much anymore, but
yes.
Leah (03:05):
Anyways, we digress.
Tina (03:07):
But yes, it's anything that is less than five
millimeters in length.
So yes, you can see some ofthose.
Those are microplastics.
Leah (03:15):
And then there's the.
Nanoplastic.
Tina (03:18):
Yes.
Now nano, by definition issomething that is one times 10
to the negative nine.
So that's point.
Put eight zeros and put a one.
That's how small it is.
Millimeters.
Leah (03:31):
That's crazy.
So that article that I sent youfrom the Washington Post had a
really cool visual and we'll puta link to that.
Um, if people haven't seen it.
It had a really great visualthat showed how incredibly small
these micro and nanoplasticsare.
Tina (03:49):
And it's confusing because we talk about microns and then
we talk about millimeters andthey're not equivalent.
So it gets confusing reallyfast.
Just know that we're talkingabout plastics that the eye
cannot see.
That is a fraction of thediameter of a hair.
So by definition, some of theseare just not visible.
Leah (04:08):
And the reason we're talking about it is because
there have been articles onmicroplastics and you know, how
they're finding them indifferent organs.
And there was an article thatwas fairly recent about is there
a connection betweenmicroplastics and cancer?
Tina (04:24):
I think really the big thrust that's hitting the news
right now is it's a possiblefactor in why we're seeing
higher rates.
of colorectal cancers in youngerpeople.
Leah (04:36):
Right.
Tina (04:37):
The story adds up.
I mean, it makes a lot of sense.
Leah (04:40):
Yeah, we were all raised on plastic.
I mean I remember like the shiftfrom glass shampoo bottles to
plastic shampoo bottles when Iwas a little kid, you know, and
all the plastic toys.
And I mean, these are safetyfeatures, which is why they were
put in place, but it's kind ofcoming around to not be safe.
Tina (04:58):
Yeah.
And the idea that plasticsaren't safe isn't a new idea at
all.
I think we just happen to havethe technology in the last 20
years or so to see them, right?
They've always been there.
They were there in the 70s.
They were there in the 60s whenwe started using plastics more
and more and they started to bemore pervasive in our
environment.
But now we can see them.
(05:18):
We can measure them.
We can look at organs andtissues the bloodstream.
and we can actually measure themand that's fairly new.
That's just because we have thetechnology now to do that.
Leah (05:28):
And the plastics aren't just coming from, I mean, a lot
of them are coming from thingslike disposable, you know,
single use water bottles and allof that, um, takeout containers,
right?
With a, yes, I cringe every timeI see styrofoam because
styrofoam is so rare in at leastthe Portland area.
Tina (05:45):
Very rare.
But then it was rare when I wasback here in the nineties here,
we didn't see a whole lot ofstyrofoam.
I went.
Down to Oklahoma to do myresidency and it was styrofoam
everywhere
Leah (05:55):
yeah, like Indiana was the same I remember being in the
airport and wanting food and itwas like this hot greasy like,
you know airport food that wasgonna be put into a styrofoam
container and I was like I'm notgonna eat
Tina (06:07):
and there's something to that, you know for a long time I
also took some solace in thefact that it all if I just put
water in the plastic It'sprobably not gonna have that
much plastic into it You know,like it's different than putting
hot soup or hot coffee into astyrofoam or plastic container
To me, that was always like, Oh,gosh, that must leach something.
Now even water bottles areimplicated.
Leah (06:28):
Yeah, so it's those type of like I was saying, like the
single use plastics, um,clothing, like we mentioned, the
fleece clothing, which is madeoftentimes from recycled water
bottles, but then theythemselves aren't that great.
The plastic grocery bags orstore bags.
It's in agriculture.
(06:48):
So to make something to makedifferent fertilizers, kind of
be almost time release, they useplastics.
It's in organic fertilizers,because if you have cows that
are eating things, drinkingwater, they're picking up
plastic from the environment.
I mean, it's just it'severywhere.
It's so pervasive.
It's kind of crazy.
Tina (07:09):
Yeah, yeah.
And it can be a real downer tothink about, right?
It's kind of like environmentalpollution in general can be a
true downer.
Leah (07:16):
This ties into the last episode where we talked with
Christina Marusik about theenvironmental impact on
carcinogenesis.
So Yeah, I mean, it's just, it'sout there.
Tina (07:29):
Yeah, and there's a lot of things we can do.
I mean, the good old reduce,reuse, recycle.
We'll get into a little bit morespecifics about what people can
do.
um, we had cups in our officeand a patient came in and she
said, I can't believe you havedisposable cups.
And I said, Oh, you know, it's amulti doctor office.
I really had nothing to do withthe front area.
(07:49):
And I, but she said, you know,take it literally reduce first,
reuse when you can and recycleif you must.
And I was like, Oh, okay.
Yeah.
Good point.
You know, I should be in thatorder.
Leah (07:59):
No.
And that's, I like that.
Like it's recycle if you must,like, because that as we'll talk
about is also an issue with, um,recycling, but, um,
Tina (08:08):
has its own issues.
Leah (08:09):
Yeah.
So.
Is there strong evidence thatmicroplastics are causing
cancer?
Tina (08:16):
I think the evidence is accumulating.
Leah (08:19):
As are the microplastics.
Tina (08:20):
As are the microplastics and nanoplastics, yes.
Um, I think as we continue tolook, we're going to see it more
and more.
Right now we have a lot ofanimal data.
to look at what happens toanimals when they're exposed,
what's happening to cells thatare exposed within the animals
when you give the animal cancer,does it affect the growth rate,
all that stuff.
Um, there is accumulatingevidence that the microplastics
(08:42):
and nanoplastics are actuallypossibly causative for some
cancers.
And I think the data isstrongest for colorectal cancer
right now.
Leah (08:50):
Right.
Because they're finding peoplewith inflammatory bowel disease
have a higher amount ofmicroplastics.
Tina (08:57):
Yeah, how about that?
I am sure you looked at the samestudy I did that was the one in
China, where they looked atpeople who had existing IBD,
inflammatory bowel disease,which is Crohn's disease or
ulcerative colitis.
And they looked at the stool ofthose folks compared to the
stool of people who didn't havethat condition.
And 1.
5 times more microplastics werefound in the people who had IBD.
(09:21):
And the reason that's importantis that IBD is a definitive risk
factor for colorectal cancer.
So it could be coincidence.
It was an observational study,right?
Maybe they don't get rid oftheir plastics.
Maybe they did find that they,the people who had higher,
higher microplastics also weremore likely to have food that
was packaged out, be exposed toit through their water sources.
You know, they, they tracked itback to their usage and saw that
(09:42):
yes, they were more likely tohave a more exposure history,
but it's an interesting study.
Nonetheless.
Leah (09:47):
You know, and it makes me think that you go to your cancer
center and you're getting yourinfusion and you get like a
little bottle of water, youknow, they, they hand them out.
They have like little, you know,plastic water bottle that you
get cause you have to behydrated as you're getting your
infusion.
So I would say for anyone who'scurrently going through
treatment.
Bring your bottle bring areusable bottle.
(10:10):
I know we're, you know, going totalk about things that people
can do But that just struck methat like you're getting
treatment for cancer Mm hmm, andI mean we're taking the whole
like recycling part out of itthose like single use bottles
But yeah, it's just you know,you're then you're drinking from
a bottle I don't know.
Tina (10:27):
I know.
I know.
And there is no perfect, youknow, there is to, to walk
through each day without beingexposed to or ingesting the
plastics is more and moredifficult because it's also in
our air,
Leah (10:39):
right.
Tina (10:40):
And so that I'm going to be uber downer, but you can take
control where you can becauseyou can't control everything,
right?
And so you have to let the restgo.
So you have to be like, I'lljust use glass and stainless
steel for my water sources whenI am out and about.
That helps.
You know, every little bithelps.
Try not to use plastics.
Don't use single use plastics.
Leah (10:59):
Don't microwave or heat anything in plastic.
And you have to be careful whenyou're defrosting something.
So if you get like a package ofmeat or something and it's in
your freezer, first of all, thataction of freezing it creates
You know, there's a chemicalreaction that can leach the
plastics out into the food.
And then when you defrost it,it's the reverse, right?
Tina (11:21):
Right.
Leah (11:22):
So, if you can, if you purchase something that's not
frozen, if you can likerepackage it with something,
wrap some butcher paper aroundit, and then seal it.
In something.
I mean, I don't even know atthis point.
Like, ah, it's so crazy.
I'm like, I'm so overwhelmed.
Prepping for this was sooverwhelming.
Tina (11:42):
It is overwhelming.
And that's why I said you dowhat you can and then you have
to let go.
Because I mean, in this latestMedscape article that you and I
were talking about before westarted, Medscape states plastic
contains.
So what you're talking aboutwhen you wrap the meat or the
whatever food in plastic orsomebody puts their leftover
chili in a plastic container,plastic itself contains over 10,
(12:03):
000 chemicals, many of themcarcinogenic substances and
endocrine disruptors.
So.
The plastic is one thing.
It has issues, you know, that weare going to continue to talk
about.
And then the plastic alsocontains other chemicals that
have ramifications on ourhealth.
And so avoiding the plastic, youalso are avoiding those 10, 000
chemicals that are possible tocome along with it.
(12:24):
And again, we talked about thisin our last episode with
Christina about how this isn'treally tracked for safety.
There's a false sense of safetywhen we're given something in
the public.
This must be okay.
And that's not the case when itcomes to human health and
safety.
The onus is on proving thetoxicity, not proving the
safety.
Leah (12:41):
Right.
Tina (12:42):
So, I think that's a, that's a really important place
to start from.
That helps us understand how wegot here.
Leah (12:48):
Yeah, we got here from convenience, right?
I mean, that's kind of, youknow, the advent of plastics was
such a revolutionary thing atthe time, but, yeah, it's
becoming very inconvenient,isn't it?
Tina (13:02):
That would be an interesting, that would be
fascinating, uh, I'm surethere's been books written on
it, I haven't looked that up,but, you know, Bakelite was kind
of the first one, what, about ahundred years ago, and then from
there we kept, Improving quoteunquote our plastic usage and
plastics are for the most partderived of petroleum products.
So it's also an outlet for some.
Petroleum products that, finds amarket in plastics.
(13:23):
And so that's a big reason wehave so many plastics today.
Leah (13:25):
Right.
Yeah.
And I think that is an issuewith recycling is that people
think, oh, well, I recycle myplastics.
All of these plastics are goingto be turned into new plastic.
And that's not always the case.
Only about 5 percent of recycledplastic gets reused.
And one of the reasons is you'renot going to get as strong of a
(13:48):
plastic from a previous plasticand the other reason is cost.
It's so much cheaper to startfrom scratch and make plastic
than to go through the wholeprocedure of recycling it.
Tina (13:59):
Interesting.
You know, we have the capacityto make biodegradable plastics.
The technology exists.
Leah (14:06):
Like from corn and stuff like that?
Tina (14:07):
Yeah, from corn.
And so.
Leah (14:10):
And there's so much corn out there.
Well, like they should use itfor some, you know, they should
use it for something besideslike fillers and dog food.
I mean, like they should use itfor something that's going to be
better in the long term.
Tina (14:21):
Well, that's an interesting thing, right?
The reason we do have it as afiller and we have so much corn
is because our growers need amarket.
when I say our, I mean,especially in the United States,
we have a lot of corn growth andit needs a market and the end
market.
ends up being our gas tanks andas a filler in a lot of
different foods and, and chowsfor various types of animals.
(14:42):
But this would be a much bettermarket, right?
This is a win, everybody wins,the environment wins, we win,
there's less toxicants, there'sless microplastics.
Leah (14:49):
Yeah.
Tina (14:50):
I feel like I would much rather be wrapping my food in a,
even if it is not perfect, itwould be a better option because
it wouldn't end up asmicroplastic.
I'd rather be doing that thanputting it in my gas tank, where
I'm arguably losing about 10percent of my miles per gallon.
Leah (15:04):
Right, right.
So, Were there other things thatwe wanted to cover before we
talk about things that we can doto decrease plastic use?
Tina (15:14):
Um, what we can do to decrease its use?
Leah (15:16):
Well, like, like, you know, like, like, how can we
help to get rid of plastic, bothfrom the environment and can we
get rid of it when it's in ourbody?
Um, like you mentioned, one ofthe issues with ingesting these
plastics, Are the phthalates andthe BPA and so you see a lot of
packaging that now says BPA freeand phthalate free.
(15:39):
That's not the whole picturebecause there are other BPs.
Tina (15:42):
My answer to that is if it's a plastic that says BPA
free, I have a little bit ofdon't believe the hype in my
head.
It's just because we haven'tnamed and blamed the next
chemical compound that's goingto leach out of that plastic you
know, I feel like this is anarea where we substitute the
unknown for fact.
So we don't know what else is inthat plastic.
It is turning out that there'sother chemical compounds besides
(16:04):
BPA that is leaching and notgood for our health.
So, your best bet, if you can doit, is to use glass.
I mean, I use a lot of recycledglass in my house.
I don't want to tell you howmany old peanut butter jars we
have in the cupboard.
Leah (16:17):
I have the same.
No, I, I am always like, youknow, setting aside the good
jars.
You know, there are good jars.
Yes.
There are really good jars.
Um, and then I also buy the balljars.
Those are really nice too.
But you have to think aboutcanned food, right?
That lining of a can istypically BPA.
And there's BPA free, but.
I don't always know what, I, Iforgot to look to see what the
(16:38):
lining is and BPA free.
Yeah.
That's another big use.
And then, the bane of myexistence is, um, I don't even
know the name of it, uh, plasticwrap, right?
Tina (16:50):
Oh.
Like Saran Wrap?
Leah (16:51):
Well, we don't want to say name brands, but yeah, just like
Saran Wrap.
Um, I hate that stuff, but it'slike, sometimes you're just
like, God, I really need it.
And so, a substitute for thatwould be, Those wax that wax
covered fabric kind of thosewax..., you know, and you can
make those I've seen that onInstagram They have little
videos on YouTube and stuffyeah,
Tina (17:12):
there's the ones that look like a shower cap But for your
bowl,
Leah (17:15):
there are some like that But there also are just these
folded used to be able to getthem at Trader Joe's.
They're just folded like thesewax covered Fabric that you can
kind of put around your food,maybe throw a rubber band around
it or something.
But we used to use that to wrapour cheese, which we bought in
plastic, took it out of plasticand then put it in beeswax.
Tina (17:34):
I know, right?
Right?
There's certain foods that Idon't think you can get without
using plastic.
I mean, what if it's off seasonand you want to buy some berries
and they're frozen, you're goingto buy them in a plastic bag.
Leah (17:43):
In a plastic bag or even just the plastic clamshells that
they come in.
Tina (17:47):
Oh, the clamshells are one of the worst because often you
can't do anything with that.
That's just This is myconundrum.
There is a vegetable conundrumthat I often have at the store.
The conventionally grown fill inthe blank lettuce is sitting
there just by itself.
Nothing is wrapped around it.
It's conventionally grown.
It's just sitting there waitingfor me to buy it.
And then I'm like, Oh, theorganic lettuce, I'd rather buy
organic, but there it is in aclamshell plastic container.
(18:10):
This happens with blueberries.
It happens with tomatoes.
happened with mushrooms?
It's like, wait, why is theorganic all wrapped up and
plastic and the conventionalnot?
And then I'm, I'm at a loss ofexactly which one is the best
one to buy.
Leah (18:24):
I know.
And I saw somebody on our, ourbuy nothing group on Facebook
for my neighborhood.
Uh, they were looking for thoseclamshells to start veggie
starts.
Tina (18:33):
Okay.
Leah (18:33):
And I'm like, well, that's a great use of it.
But then you're like doing aveggie start out of plastic.
Tina (18:39):
Yeah.
Leah (18:41):
So, and I do that too.
I use the, you know, if I buy astart, I reuse those little pots
and they're plastic.
And I'm starting to see more andmore people online building wood
things to do plant starts with.
But yeah, I've, I am completelyguilty of using plastic jugs and
whatnot to start my veggies formy garden.
Tina (18:58):
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, again, I think thekey here is you do what you can
and then you let go.
Leah (19:05):
Yeah, the letting go part is hard.
Tina (19:06):
It is, it is.
Leah (19:08):
For some of us.
Tina (19:09):
But you have to know that you've done everything you can
and then forgive yourself.
I mean, perfection is not reallythe goal.
You do your best, you know.
Leah (19:16):
It's to reduce, to reduce the impact.
So the other thing is water.
Make sure your water isfiltered.
So reverse osmosis willdefinitely clear out those micro
and nanoplastics.
Activated charcoal will, Ibelieve those filters greatly
reduce it.
I don't think it eliminates itcompletely.
Tina (19:33):
Yeah.
Leah (19:34):
So, but make sure that you are getting filtered water in a
glass or metal jar or container.
Tina (19:40):
Yeah.
There, there are some websitestracking, which filters are best
out there.
And of course they end up tryingto sell you their filter kind of
thing.
But in, in the aggregate, whenyou look at these various
websites, it looks to me likethe tighter the charcoal, the
better the filter is for theseplastics.
So that, you know, like a loosecharcoal is going to let more
plastic through than a tightcharcoal.
Yeah.
Cool.
Leah (20:00):
Like a Brita or pure filter that kind of, you know,
you shake and it kind of rattlesaround in the little plastic
container, um, you and I bothhave Berkey filters and Berkey
no longer makes the filter forthe container, but those are
those very compressed carbonfilters that can really, really
greatly reduce the plastic.
Tina (20:19):
it's one of those things that I would like to do more
research on because I could useanother one besides the Berkey
because it's so slow becauseit's gravity fed.
Yeah.
So I'd like to hook one up to mysink.
So maybe if we do that, I'll,I'll put a, a little summary of
what I find on our webpage.
Leah (20:33):
As we started off, you know, talking about Patagonia
and clothing, I think trying tofind natural fiber clothing is
another really important thing.
Um, alpaca wool is fabulous.
It's warm, like most wools, likeif it gets wet, it's not, it's
not going to chill you, youknow, the way that cotton would.
Um, but yeah, alpaca, if you canfind things made from alpaca,
Tina (20:57):
You're just you're a fan of the alpaca.
Leah (20:59):
I'm a fan of llamas and alpacas But when I read about
and you know, I have been giftedMultiple things that are made
from alpaca wool.
Tina (21:08):
Wait, can you make underwear out of them?
Leah (21:10):
I think so probably and then You can make, like, it's
very, it's really breathable.
Like, you can actually hike and,you know, run and all of that
in, in this, in this wall.
Tina (21:21):
Because, okay, here's the thing, I'm, like, laughing
because the only thing I reallyhave seen in alpaco is sweaters
and gloves and scarves and such.
And so, I think of underwear as,like, something we should get
that is not going to havemicroplastics because we wash it
a lot.
We go through a lot of it.
It's kind of one of those, allyear round you use it.
Leah (21:40):
Are you thinking like of the spandexes and stuff that are
in underwear?
Tina (21:43):
I'm thinking underwear across the board, yeah.
I mean, obviously cotton is notgoing to have the microplastics
as much.
But yeah, there's all sorts ofmaterials.
Polyesters.
Leah (21:51):
Yeah, I would just say try to stick with natural fibers.
And if you find workout clothingthat's made from either merino
wool or alpaca, yeah, definitelygo for that.
I'll have to look into theunderwear thing.
I think there is! No, I've seenon Instagram, I swear I've seen
um,
Tina (22:06):
I'm just laughing because
Leah (22:07):
wool underwear!
Tina (22:09):
Because I think of it as so warm, so like, you know, like
wool.
I think of it like wool.
Leah (22:14):
No, my, my friend's son actually has come up with a
company, I think it's pronouncedAvala, Avala?
I'm not sure how to pronounceit.
But they, um, they make merinowool t shirts for running.
And so he's got, we can link tohis Instagram.
But she's been a friend of minefor a really long time, um, but
(22:36):
he has, he does these videoswhere he approaches people and
races and says, okay, we'll runthree miles and after a mile and
a half, we'll switch shirts andyou'll wear my shirt and tell me
which one you prefer.
It's, it's kind of, it's greatmarketing, but anyways.
Yeah, so you can run in theseshirts and they're cool and
(22:56):
breathable, stretchy, so I thinkthere is underwear.
I'm going to look online, but I,I, I swear, cause you know,
Instagram will just start likethrowing ads at you.
So my phone's probably listeningto me and so I'll start seeing
all the underwear ads.
Tina (23:09):
Well, a lower bar might be just to buy cotton though,
right?
Leah (23:11):
Yeah, yeah.
Tina (23:12):
100 percent cotton.
Leah (23:13):
That's what I usually do for my underwear.
But bras are hard to find incotton.
Yeah, I agree.
Okay, so we've covered clothing,we've covered water, food we
kind of covered in terms oftrying to reduce, you know,
like, I mean, I don't want tosay favor the places where you
get takeout where they Don't useplastic, or styrofoam, because
(23:34):
in some places you're not goingto find that.
Tina (23:36):
No, I know.
Leah (23:37):
And I don't know if you can bring your own container and
say, can you put this, I mean,that's such an Oregon thing,
right?
Tina (23:41):
Oh, that'd be so Oregonian.
Leah (23:43):
You bring your glass container and say, can you make
my food in this?
Tina (23:47):
It's, it's like the Portlandia episode where they
went and met the chicken at thefarm.
Leah (23:51):
No, yeah, that's, that's truly like a, like a Portland
thing.
So I guess we'll talk about ifthere are ways of, you know,
eliminating it from our body.
And the short answer is no.
Tina (24:03):
Yeah, that's the problem.
This is why you really want toreduce it.
As in incoming because there'singestion routes, right?
We've talked about this in manyepisodes in the past.
You can only ingest so manyways.
You can only eliminate in somany ways.
You know, there's routes intoyour body, your mouth, your
lungs, your skin, and there'sroutes out your body, your
stool, your urine, your sweat,your breath, and that's it.
(24:26):
That's all you got.
You got routes in routes out.
And if it goes in and it doesn'tcome out, it's in you somewhere.
I mean, that sounds like anoversimplification, but that's
basically what we're talkingabout.
Unless we can break it down,unless we can actually digest it
or dismantle it, so to speak.
Leah (24:41):
And we can't.
Tina (24:42):
That's the problem with plastics.
Yes.
Leah (24:44):
Yeah, but the endocrine disrupters can potentially be
eliminated
Tina (24:50):
Those are chemicals.
Leah (24:51):
Right that are in the plastics
Tina (24:54):
...that are in the plastics, right.
those would be some of the 10,000 plus chemicals that medscape
talks about being in the plasticand us ingesting it due to
leaching into whatever we're,drinking or eating from the
plastic.
Leah (25:05):
And I was reading that a way to help to reduce those
chemicals is through sweating.
There was a study looking atways of reducing some of the
many chemicals that go alongwith plastic, and sweating can
help to eliminate some of them.
And so, like you just said, Imean, it's just making sure that
you're, I don't want to use theword detox, but making sure
(25:28):
you're Body's pathways ofelimination are working.
So make sure you're pooping, eatyour veggies, your plant foods,
right?
Your fiber, um, your nuts, yourbrightly colored foods to get
all of those polyphenols.
Um, make sure you're havingdaily bowel movements, regular
(25:49):
bowel movements.
Tina (25:50):
that's one of the Roots of, like, foundational measures
of health is normal bowelmovements every day.
So when someone tells me everyother day is the normal since
they were young, I still say,let's still shoot for every day
if we can, because eliminationis so important in our current
environment.
Leah (26:05):
Right.
Yeah.
Tina (26:07):
And a lot does come out that way.
Leah (26:09):
Mm hmm,
Tina (26:10):
which is how they did the study in China measuring the
microplastics in the stool,right?
Leah (26:13):
Right, right, but yeah I mean that and I think I you know
I have seen things I didn't readabout them because I was diving
so deep into all of this As youwere but I mean there are
apparently some studies lookingat Resveratrol and curcumin to
help to reduce these phthalatesand you know other chemicals So,
(26:34):
I would just say incorporatethose foods, make sure that
you're getting turmeric in yourfood, and you're getting those
dark purple y grapes, the peanutskins, um, you can go back and
listen to previous episodes.
Did we do one on resveratrol?
I think we did, I remember thepeanut skin thing from the,
Tina (26:52):
I, you know, we did talk about peanut skins in
resveratrol, I do remember thatway back when, that might have
been in season one, but um,color, color, color, follow the
color in nature.
Leah (27:00):
Yeah.
Tina (27:00):
It's always the case, and those pigments are where it's
at.
They all upregulate our abilityto, um, get rid of these toxic
substances in our cells.
So we actually pump them out.
So if you could picture a cellas having pumps on its membrane,
what goes inside can sometimesbe pumped out.
What increases the number ofexits or pumps to get that junk
out of our cells is some ofthese bioflavonoids that you're
(27:23):
talking about, polyphenols andsuch.
And it's, no one needs to nameanything, just follow the color,
eat berries, eat orange, eatyellow, eat blue, you know.
Black beans, whatever.
Just follow the color and youwill be ingesting the good
stuff.
Leah (27:35):
And you'll be getting fiber.
Tina (27:37):
And
Leah (27:37):
there's fiber.
Anything else?
I was trying to end on an upnote, and I always think that
talking about berries is an upnote.
Tina (27:46):
Yeah, yeah, I'm trying to think.
Um, the only, the only good newsis we're looking at it now.
I feel like 10 years ago, wewere kind of too early on it.
It was happening, and it wasincreasing.
But now we see Harvard Medicinecoming out in their magazine.
They just talked aboutmicroplastics being everywhere
from trash to dust to fibers tocosmetics, They went, into it in
(28:07):
great detail and Medscape justcame out.
So that means that the doctorsand the other healthcare
practitioners are being toldabout this and how it poses an
actual health risk.
Leah (28:16):
Yeah, because it's also, I mean, it's a cardiovascular
risk, right?
Tina (28:19):
Huge.
Think of it this way.
They are so small, some of them,If you inhale these particles
and they're less than 2.
5 microns, which they are in theair sometimes, they go through
your lungs, just like.
Your lungs are supposed to do,they absorb things and go
through your lungs into yourbloodstream and they can cross
through the blood brain barrier.
So when you have things crossingthrough the blood brain barrier
that shouldn't be there, that'sno bueno.
(28:40):
Because the brain doesn't haveas much ability to protect
itself, so we need to protectit.
Leah (28:45):
Or eliminate, right?
I mean, what's the pathway ofelimination for the brain?
Tina (28:49):
Glymphatics.
Leah (28:50):
That's a whole, that's a whole nother episode.
Tina (28:52):
Yes, glymphatics are amazing.
It's a lymphatic systemdedicated to the brain, and if
somebody just puts that intoGoogle Images or whatever, and
you see how the glymphaticsbasically look like waves in an
ocean going over your braintissue, kind of bringing away
the debris, the proteinaggregates, and the junk that
shouldn't be in your, in yourCSF or your brain tissue.
So that's why hydration isreally important and sleep is
(29:13):
really important because that'swhen your glymphatics clean
things out.
That's a whole nother, yeah,episode, you're right.
Leah (29:18):
So, yeah, if you're still listening after this episode
Tina (29:22):
I know.
God bless you.
Leah (29:24):
Yeah.
But, um, yeah, we'll definitelyhave links.
In the show notes and pass thison to friends.
If you've been trying toeliminate plastic in your life
and you have a friend or familymember who is just really, you
know, determined to not give uptheir single use plastic
bottles, you know, pass thisepisode on.
Tina (29:44):
And again, this is just like I mentioned to Christina.
Um, in our last episode, this isnot about a political issue, a
left right issue.
It's not about anything exceptour health and the health of our
children and generations tocome.
Right now, the cancer rates aremuch higher in people under 50
years old, and they'reskyrocketing.
And we think That among themultifactorial reasons, this is
(30:06):
one of them that's really highlyimplicated because it's around
the world and so I think we canall agree no matter where you
are in the political spectrumthat cancer in general and
certainly cancer in children andyoung people.
Should be high priority to dosomething about
Leah (30:20):
exactly.
Tina (30:21):
It's a bipartisan issue.
It's not about the environment.
It's about our health
Leah (30:24):
Well again, if people haven't listened to the episode
that we did with christina She'sthe author of a new war on
cancer and it's all about theenvironmental impact On cancer.
You can watch it on YouTube.
We have a YouTube channel and wetend to put our interviews.
Maybe this episode will go up.
We don't know yet.
I haven't decided.
Um, I'll talk to the videoeditor and see what they do.
(30:48):
But we do have videos of ourinterviews.
We've been putting them up onYouTube.
So go there and watch it.
And if you like what we'redoing, if you like what you're
hearing.
You can buy us a coffee.
The link is in the show notes.
Um, we really appreciate it.
And it helps us to pay for allof the apps and sites that we
(31:10):
need to do to produce this.
We're not making a profit off ofthis.
This is purely out of love.
And yeah, we would love for acouple of coffees from a person
or two.
Tina (31:22):
And if you head over to YouTube, don't forget to hit the
subscribe button because thathelps us out a lot and it helps
other people find us.
So
Leah (31:28):
yeah, I think as of this recording, we have 54
subscribers, which doesn't soundlike much because there are
people who have millions, butfor us, it's pretty good.
I was happy.
I was happy when we got 10.
So
Tina (31:42):
yeah, you got to start somewhere.
Leah (31:44):
Yeah.
So, on that note, I'm Dr.
Leah Sherman.
Tina (31:47):
And I'm Dr.
Tina Kaczor.
Leah (31:49):
And this is the Cancer Pod.
Until next time.
(32:34):
They're everywhere.
Everywhere
Pass this on to friends.
(00:01):
If you've been trying toeliminate plastic in your life
and you have a friend or familymember who is just really, you
know, determined to not give uptheir single use plastic
bottles, you know, pass thisepisode on.
Tina (00:13):
I'm Dr Tina Kaczor and as Leah likes to say I'm the
science-y one
Leah (00:17):
and I'm Dr Leah Sherman and on the cancer inside
Tina (00:20):
And we're two naturopathic doctors who practice integrative
cancer care
Leah (00:25):
But we're not your doctors
Tina (00:27):
This is for education entertainment and informational
purposes only do not apply anyof this information
Leah (00:33):
without first speaking to your doctor
Tina (00:35):
The views and opinions expressed on this podcast by the
hosts and their guests aresolely their own
Leah (00:42):
Welcome to the cancer pod Hey, Tina.
Tina (01:00):
Hey, Leah.
Leah (01:01):
Microplastics.
They're everywhere in the news.
Tina (01:06):
Yeah, I was going to say they're everywhere in every
sense of the word.
Leah (01:08):
No, they are.
They're everywhere in the news.
They're everywhere.
Everywhere.
Tina (01:13):
Yeah.
Yeah.
It, it's finally hitting mainstreet news.
I think it's been in the newsbefore, but just not hitting
mass media until fairlyrecently.
Leah (01:23):
Well, as you had mentioned before we started recording,
there was that whole thing withthe plastic fibers from fleece
clothing.
Like I remember that from like,is that like 10 years ago or
something?
Tina (01:36):
Yeah, I think we heard about it because, um, Patagonia,
the brand, Patagonia, saw theproblem with washing some of the
fleece fibers and thenanoplastics that were coming
off of that and going into ourenvironment and started to try
to solve for the problem, so Ithink that they were the first
company that I know of, kind of,said, okay, we're going forward.
(01:58):
We're going to try to solve thisproblem.
Leah (02:00):
And you see it, you see it, like if you have fleece
blankets or fleece clothing and,you know, I'll run them through
the dryer on low.
And then you see all of thatlint that comes off of them in
the dryer.
And so what's coming off in thewash.
Tina (02:15):
Right.
That's what you can see.
And a lot of these plastics wecannot see.
Leah (02:19):
Right.
So what is a microplastic?
Like, I guess we can define Whatis that exactly?
Cause I'm seeing those fibers inmy lint tray, but are those
microplastics?
Tina (02:32):
Technically, if they're less than five millimeters in
length, they qualify as amicroplastic.
So
Leah (02:38):
That's big.
That's big.
Tina (02:40):
It's big! Five millimeters is the size of the eraser head.
Like a number two pencil, likethe eraser is five millimeters,
generally.
Leah (02:48):
Oh, that's what you judge like the size of a melanoma by
too, right?
The eraser?
Tina (02:53):
Yes.
Leah (02:53):
That's really big.
Tina (02:55):
And a lot of folks, if you're too young and you don't
know what a number two pencilis, you can look it up and
Google that.
Leah (02:59):
Oh, come on.
People know.
Here, look, here's a pencil.
Tina (03:01):
I don't think people use them all that much anymore, but
yes.
Leah (03:05):
Anyways, we digress.
Tina (03:07):
But yes, it's anything that is less than five
millimeters in length.
So yes, you can see some ofthose.
Those are microplastics.
Leah (03:15):
And then there's the.
Nanoplastic.
Tina (03:18):
Yes.
Now nano, by definition issomething that is one times 10
to the negative nine.
So that's point.
Put eight zeros and put a one.
That's how small it is.
Millimeters.
Leah (03:31):
That's crazy.
So that article that I sent youfrom the Washington Post had a
really cool visual and we'll puta link to that.
Um, if people haven't seen it.
It had a really great visualthat showed how incredibly small
these micro and nanoplasticsare.
Tina (03:49):
And it's confusing because we talk about microns and then
we talk about millimeters andthey're not equivalent.
So it gets confusing reallyfast.
Just know that we're talkingabout plastics that the eye
cannot see.
That is a fraction of thediameter of a hair.
So by definition, some of theseare just not visible.
Leah (04:08):
And the reason we're talking about it is because
there have been articles onmicroplastics and you know, how
they're finding them indifferent organs.
And there was an article thatwas fairly recent about is there
a connection betweenmicroplastics and cancer?
Tina (04:24):
I think really the big thrust that's hitting the news
right now is it's a possiblefactor in why we're seeing
higher rates.
of colorectal cancers in youngerpeople.
Leah (04:36):
Right.
Tina (04:37):
The story adds up.
I mean, it makes a lot of sense.
Leah (04:40):
Yeah, we were all raised on plastic.
I mean I remember like the shiftfrom glass shampoo bottles to
plastic shampoo bottles when Iwas a little kid, you know, and
all the plastic toys.
And I mean, these are safetyfeatures, which is why they were
put in place, but it's kind ofcoming around to not be safe.
Tina (04:58):
Yeah.
And the idea that plasticsaren't safe isn't a new idea at
all.
I think we just happen to havethe technology in the last 20
years or so to see them, right?
They've always been there.
They were there in the 70s.
They were there in the 60s whenwe started using plastics more
and more and they started to bemore pervasive in our
environment.
But now we can see them.
(05:18):
We can measure them.
We can look at organs andtissues the bloodstream.
and we can actually measure themand that's fairly new.
That's just because we have thetechnology now to do that.
Leah (05:28):
And the plastics aren't just coming from, I mean, a lot
of them are coming from thingslike disposable, you know,
single use water bottles and allof that, um, takeout containers,
right?
With a, yes, I cringe every timeI see styrofoam because
styrofoam is so rare in at leastthe Portland area.
Tina (05:45):
Very rare.
But then it was rare when I wasback here in the nineties here,
we didn't see a whole lot ofstyrofoam.
I went.
Down to Oklahoma to do myresidency and it was styrofoam
everywhere
Leah (05:55):
yeah, like Indiana was the same I remember being in the
airport and wanting food and itwas like this hot greasy like,
you know airport food that wasgonna be put into a styrofoam
container and I was like I'm notgonna eat
Tina (06:07):
and there's something to that, you know for a long time I
also took some solace in thefact that it all if I just put
water in the plastic It'sprobably not gonna have that
much plastic into it You know,like it's different than putting
hot soup or hot coffee into astyrofoam or plastic container
To me, that was always like, Oh,gosh, that must leach something.
Now even water bottles areimplicated.
Leah (06:28):
Yeah, so it's those type of like I was saying, like the
single use plastics, um,clothing, like we mentioned, the
fleece clothing, which is madeoftentimes from recycled water
bottles, but then theythemselves aren't that great.
The plastic grocery bags orstore bags.
It's in agriculture.
(06:48):
So to make something to makedifferent fertilizers, kind of
be almost time release, they useplastics.
It's in organic fertilizers,because if you have cows that
are eating things, drinkingwater, they're picking up
plastic from the environment.
I mean, it's just it'severywhere.
It's so pervasive.
It's kind of crazy.
Tina (07:09):
Yeah, yeah.
And it can be a real downer tothink about, right?
It's kind of like environmentalpollution in general can be a
true downer.
Leah (07:16):
This ties into the last episode where we talked with
Christina Marusik about theenvironmental impact on
carcinogenesis.
So Yeah, I mean, it's just, it'sout there.
Tina (07:29):
Yeah, and there's a lot of things we can do.
I mean, the good old reduce,reuse, recycle.
We'll get into a little bit morespecifics about what people can
do.
um, we had cups in our officeand a patient came in and she
said, I can't believe you havedisposable cups.
And I said, Oh, you know, it's amulti doctor office.
I really had nothing to do withthe front area.
(07:49):
And I, but she said, you know,take it literally reduce first,
reuse when you can and recycleif you must.
And I was like, Oh, okay.
Yeah.
Good point.
You know, I should be in thatorder.
Leah (07:59):
No.
And that's, I like that.
Like it's recycle if you must,like, because that as we'll talk
about is also an issue with, um,recycling, but, um,
Tina (08:08):
has its own issues.
Leah (08:09):
Yeah.
So.
Is there strong evidence thatmicroplastics are causing
cancer?
Tina (08:16):
I think the evidence is accumulating.
Leah (08:19):
As are the microplastics.
Tina (08:20):
As are the microplastics and nanoplastics, yes.
Um, I think as we continue tolook, we're going to see it more
and more.
Right now we have a lot ofanimal data.
to look at what happens toanimals when they're exposed,
what's happening to cells thatare exposed within the animals
when you give the animal cancer,does it affect the growth rate,
all that stuff.
Um, there is accumulatingevidence that the microplastics
(08:42):
and nanoplastics are actuallypossibly causative for some
cancers.
And I think the data isstrongest for colorectal cancer
right now.
Leah (08:50):
Right.
Because they're finding peoplewith inflammatory bowel disease
have a higher amount ofmicroplastics.
Tina (08:57):
Yeah, how about that?
I am sure you looked at the samestudy I did that was the one in
China, where they looked atpeople who had existing IBD,
inflammatory bowel disease,which is Crohn's disease or
ulcerative colitis.
And they looked at the stool ofthose folks compared to the
stool of people who didn't havethat condition.
And 1.
5 times more microplastics werefound in the people who had IBD.
(09:21):
And the reason that's importantis that IBD is a definitive risk
factor for colorectal cancer.
So it could be coincidence.
It was an observational study,right?
Maybe they don't get rid oftheir plastics.
Maybe they did find that they,the people who had higher,
higher microplastics also weremore likely to have food that
was packaged out, be exposed toit through their water sources.
You know, they, they tracked itback to their usage and saw that
(09:42):
yes, they were more likely tohave a more exposure history,
but it's an interesting study.
Nonetheless.
Leah (09:47):
You know, and it makes me think that you go to your cancer
center and you're getting yourinfusion and you get like a
little bottle of water, youknow, they, they hand them out.
They have like little, you know,plastic water bottle that you
get cause you have to behydrated as you're getting your
infusion.
So I would say for anyone who'scurrently going through
treatment.
Bring your bottle bring areusable bottle.
(10:10):
I know we're, you know, going totalk about things that people
can do But that just struck methat like you're getting
treatment for cancer Mm hmm, andI mean we're taking the whole
like recycling part out of itthose like single use bottles
But yeah, it's just you know,you're then you're drinking from
a bottle I don't know.
Tina (10:27):
I know.
I know.
And there is no perfect, youknow, there is to, to walk
through each day without beingexposed to or ingesting the
plastics is more and moredifficult because it's also in
our air,
Leah (10:39):
right.
Tina (10:40):
And so that I'm going to be uber downer, but you can take
control where you can becauseyou can't control everything,
right?
And so you have to let the restgo.
So you have to be like, I'lljust use glass and stainless
steel for my water sources whenI am out and about.
That helps.
You know, every little bithelps.
Try not to use plastics.
Don't use single use plastics.
Leah (10:59):
Don't microwave or heat anything in plastic.
And you have to be careful whenyou're defrosting something.
So if you get like a package ofmeat or something and it's in
your freezer, first of all, thataction of freezing it creates
You know, there's a chemicalreaction that can leach the
plastics out into the food.
And then when you defrost it,it's the reverse, right?
Tina (11:21):
Right.
Leah (11:22):
So, if you can, if you purchase something that's not
frozen, if you can likerepackage it with something,
wrap some butcher paper aroundit, and then seal it.
In something.
I mean, I don't even know atthis point.
Like, ah, it's so crazy.
I'm like, I'm so overwhelmed.
Prepping for this was sooverwhelming.
Tina (11:42):
It is overwhelming.
And that's why I said you dowhat you can and then you have
to let go.
Because I mean, in this latestMedscape article that you and I
were talking about before westarted, Medscape states plastic
contains.
So what you're talking aboutwhen you wrap the meat or the
whatever food in plastic orsomebody puts their leftover
chili in a plastic container,plastic itself contains over 10,
(12:03):
000 chemicals, many of themcarcinogenic substances and
endocrine disruptors.
So.
The plastic is one thing.
It has issues, you know, that weare going to continue to talk
about.
And then the plastic alsocontains other chemicals that
have ramifications on ourhealth.
And so avoiding the plastic, youalso are avoiding those 10, 000
chemicals that are possible tocome along with it.
(12:24):
And again, we talked about thisin our last episode with
Christina about how this isn'treally tracked for safety.
There's a false sense of safetywhen we're given something in
the public.
This must be okay.
And that's not the case when itcomes to human health and
safety.
The onus is on proving thetoxicity, not proving the
safety.
Leah (12:41):
Right.
Tina (12:42):
So, I think that's a, that's a really important place
to start from.
That helps us understand how wegot here.
Leah (12:48):
Yeah, we got here from convenience, right?
I mean, that's kind of, youknow, the advent of plastics was
such a revolutionary thing atthe time, but, yeah, it's
becoming very inconvenient,isn't it?
Tina (13:02):
That would be an interesting, that would be
fascinating, uh, I'm surethere's been books written on
it, I haven't looked that up,but, you know, Bakelite was kind
of the first one, what, about ahundred years ago, and then from
there we kept, Improving quoteunquote our plastic usage and
plastics are for the most partderived of petroleum products.
So it's also an outlet for some.
Petroleum products that, finds amarket in plastics.
(13:23):
And so that's a big reason wehave so many plastics today.
Leah (13:25):
Right.
Yeah.
And I think that is an issuewith recycling is that people
think, oh, well, I recycle myplastics.
All of these plastics are goingto be turned into new plastic.
And that's not always the case.
Only about 5 percent of recycledplastic gets reused.
And one of the reasons is you'renot going to get as strong of a
(13:48):
plastic from a previous plasticand the other reason is cost.
It's so much cheaper to startfrom scratch and make plastic
than to go through the wholeprocedure of recycling it.
Tina (13:59):
Interesting.
You know, we have the capacityto make biodegradable plastics.
The technology exists.
Leah (14:06):
Like from corn and stuff like that?
Tina (14:07):
Yeah, from corn.
And so.
Leah (14:10):
And there's so much corn out there.
Well, like they should use itfor some, you know, they should
use it for something besideslike fillers and dog food.
I mean, like they should use itfor something that's going to be
better in the long term.
Tina (14:21):
Well, that's an interesting thing, right?
The reason we do have it as afiller and we have so much corn
is because our growers need amarket.
when I say our, I mean,especially in the United States,
we have a lot of corn growth andit needs a market and the end
market.
ends up being our gas tanks andas a filler in a lot of
different foods and, and chowsfor various types of animals.
(14:42):
But this would be a much bettermarket, right?
This is a win, everybody wins,the environment wins, we win,
there's less toxicants, there'sless microplastics.
Leah (14:49):
Yeah.
Tina (14:50):
I feel like I would much rather be wrapping my food in a,
even if it is not perfect, itwould be a better option because
it wouldn't end up asmicroplastic.
I'd rather be doing that thanputting it in my gas tank, where
I'm arguably losing about 10percent of my miles per gallon.
Leah (15:04):
Right, right.
So, Were there other things thatwe wanted to cover before we
talk about things that we can doto decrease plastic use?
Tina (15:14):
Um, what we can do to decrease its use?
Leah (15:16):
Well, like, like, you know, like, like, how can we
help to get rid of plastic, bothfrom the environment and can we
get rid of it when it's in ourbody?
Um, like you mentioned, one ofthe issues with ingesting these
plastics, Are the phthalates andthe BPA and so you see a lot of
packaging that now says BPA freeand phthalate free.
(15:39):
That's not the whole picturebecause there are other BPs.
Tina (15:42):
My answer to that is if it's a plastic that says BPA
free, I have a little bit ofdon't believe the hype in my
head.
It's just because we haven'tnamed and blamed the next
chemical compound that's goingto leach out of that plastic you
know, I feel like this is anarea where we substitute the
unknown for fact.
So we don't know what else is inthat plastic.
It is turning out that there'sother chemical compounds besides
(16:04):
BPA that is leaching and notgood for our health.
So, your best bet, if you can doit, is to use glass.
I mean, I use a lot of recycledglass in my house.
I don't want to tell you howmany old peanut butter jars we
have in the cupboard.
Leah (16:17):
I have the same.
No, I, I am always like, youknow, setting aside the good
jars.
You know, there are good jars.
Yes.
There are really good jars.
Um, and then I also buy the balljars.
Those are really nice too.
But you have to think aboutcanned food, right?
That lining of a can istypically BPA.
And there's BPA free, but.
I don't always know what, I, Iforgot to look to see what the
(16:38):
lining is and BPA free.
Yeah.
That's another big use.
And then, the bane of myexistence is, um, I don't even
know the name of it, uh, plasticwrap, right?
Tina (16:50):
Oh.
Like Saran Wrap?
Leah (16:51):
Well, we don't want to say name brands, but yeah, just like
Saran Wrap.
Um, I hate that stuff, but it'slike, sometimes you're just
like, God, I really need it.
And so, a substitute for thatwould be, Those wax that wax
covered fabric kind of thosewax..., you know, and you can
make those I've seen that onInstagram They have little
videos on YouTube and stuffyeah,
Tina (17:12):
there's the ones that look like a shower cap But for your
bowl,
Leah (17:15):
there are some like that But there also are just these
folded used to be able to getthem at Trader Joe's.
They're just folded like thesewax covered Fabric that you can
kind of put around your food,maybe throw a rubber band around
it or something.
But we used to use that to wrapour cheese, which we bought in
plastic, took it out of plasticand then put it in beeswax.
Tina (17:34):
I know, right?
Right?
There's certain foods that Idon't think you can get without
using plastic.
I mean, what if it's off seasonand you want to buy some berries
and they're frozen, you're goingto buy them in a plastic bag.
Leah (17:43):
In a plastic bag or even just the plastic clamshells that
they come in.
Tina (17:47):
Oh, the clamshells are one of the worst because often you
can't do anything with that.
That's just This is myconundrum.
There is a vegetable conundrumthat I often have at the store.
The conventionally grown fill inthe blank lettuce is sitting
there just by itself.
Nothing is wrapped around it.
It's conventionally grown.
It's just sitting there waitingfor me to buy it.
And then I'm like, Oh, theorganic lettuce, I'd rather buy
organic, but there it is in aclamshell plastic container.
(18:10):
This happens with blueberries.
It happens with tomatoes.
happened with mushrooms?
It's like, wait, why is theorganic all wrapped up and
plastic and the conventionalnot?
And then I'm, I'm at a loss ofexactly which one is the best
one to buy.
Leah (18:24):
I know.
And I saw somebody on our, ourbuy nothing group on Facebook
for my neighborhood.
Uh, they were looking for thoseclamshells to start veggie
starts.
Tina (18:33):
Okay.
Leah (18:33):
And I'm like, well, that's a great use of it.
But then you're like doing aveggie start out of plastic.
Tina (18:39):
Yeah.
Leah (18:41):
So, and I do that too.
I use the, you know, if I buy astart, I reuse those little pots
and they're plastic.
And I'm starting to see more andmore people online building wood
things to do plant starts with.
But yeah, I've, I am completelyguilty of using plastic jugs and
whatnot to start my veggies formy garden.
Tina (18:58):
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, again, I think thekey here is you do what you can
and then you let go.
Leah (19:05):
Yeah, the letting go part is hard.
Tina (19:06):
It is, it is.
Leah (19:08):
For some of us.
Tina (19:09):
But you have to know that you've done everything you can
and then forgive yourself.
I mean, perfection is not reallythe goal.
You do your best, you know.
Leah (19:16):
It's to reduce, to reduce the impact.
So the other thing is water.
Make sure your water isfiltered.
So reverse osmosis willdefinitely clear out those micro
and nanoplastics.
Activated charcoal will, Ibelieve those filters greatly
reduce it.
I don't think it eliminates itcompletely.
Tina (19:33):
Yeah.
Leah (19:34):
So, but make sure that you are getting filtered water in a
glass or metal jar or container.
Tina (19:40):
Yeah.
There, there are some websitestracking, which filters are best
out there.
And of course they end up tryingto sell you their filter kind of
thing.
But in, in the aggregate, whenyou look at these various
websites, it looks to me likethe tighter the charcoal, the
better the filter is for theseplastics.
So that, you know, like a loosecharcoal is going to let more
plastic through than a tightcharcoal.
Yeah.
Cool.
Leah (20:00):
Like a Brita or pure filter that kind of, you know,
you shake and it kind of rattlesaround in the little plastic
container, um, you and I bothhave Berkey filters and Berkey
no longer makes the filter forthe container, but those are
those very compressed carbonfilters that can really, really
greatly reduce the plastic.
Tina (20:19):
it's one of those things that I would like to do more
research on because I could useanother one besides the Berkey
because it's so slow becauseit's gravity fed.
Yeah.
So I'd like to hook one up to mysink.
So maybe if we do that, I'll,I'll put a, a little summary of
what I find on our webpage.
Leah (20:33):
As we started off, you know, talking about Patagonia
and clothing, I think trying tofind natural fiber clothing is
another really important thing.
Um, alpaca wool is fabulous.
It's warm, like most wools, likeif it gets wet, it's not, it's
not going to chill you, youknow, the way that cotton would.
Um, but yeah, alpaca, if you canfind things made from alpaca,
Tina (20:57):
You're just you're a fan of the alpaca.
Leah (20:59):
I'm a fan of llamas and alpacas But when I read about
and you know, I have been giftedMultiple things that are made
from alpaca wool.
Tina (21:08):
Wait, can you make underwear out of them?
Leah (21:10):
I think so probably and then You can make, like, it's
very, it's really breathable.
Like, you can actually hike and,you know, run and all of that
in, in this, in this wall.
Tina (21:21):
Because, okay, here's the thing, I'm, like, laughing
because the only thing I reallyhave seen in alpaco is sweaters
and gloves and scarves and such.
And so, I think of underwear as,like, something we should get
that is not going to havemicroplastics because we wash it
a lot.
We go through a lot of it.
It's kind of one of those, allyear round you use it.
Leah (21:40):
Are you thinking like of the spandexes and stuff that are
in underwear?
Tina (21:43):
I'm thinking underwear across the board, yeah.
I mean, obviously cotton is notgoing to have the microplastics
as much.
But yeah, there's all sorts ofmaterials.
Polyesters.
Leah (21:51):
Yeah, I would just say try to stick with natural fibers.
And if you find workout clothingthat's made from either merino
wool or alpaca, yeah, definitelygo for that.
I'll have to look into theunderwear thing.
I think there is! No, I've seenon Instagram, I swear I've seen
um,
Tina (22:06):
I'm just laughing because
Leah (22:07):
wool underwear!
Tina (22:09):
Because I think of it as so warm, so like, you know, like
wool.
I think of it like wool.
Leah (22:14):
No, my, my friend's son actually has come up with a
company, I think it's pronouncedAvala, Avala?
I'm not sure how to pronounceit.
But they, um, they make merinowool t shirts for running.
And so he's got, we can link tohis Instagram.
But she's been a friend of minefor a really long time, um, but
(22:36):
he has, he does these videoswhere he approaches people and
races and says, okay, we'll runthree miles and after a mile and
a half, we'll switch shirts andyou'll wear my shirt and tell me
which one you prefer.
It's, it's kind of, it's greatmarketing, but anyways.
Yeah, so you can run in theseshirts and they're cool and
(22:56):
breathable, stretchy, so I thinkthere is underwear.
I'm going to look online, but I,I, I swear, cause you know,
Instagram will just start likethrowing ads at you.
So my phone's probably listeningto me and so I'll start seeing
all the underwear ads.
Tina (23:09):
Well, a lower bar might be just to buy cotton though,
right?
Leah (23:11):
Yeah, yeah.
Tina (23:12):
100 percent cotton.
Leah (23:13):
That's what I usually do for my underwear.
But bras are hard to find incotton.
Yeah, I agree.
Okay, so we've covered clothing,we've covered water, food we
kind of covered in terms oftrying to reduce, you know,
like, I mean, I don't want tosay favor the places where you
get takeout where they Don't useplastic, or styrofoam, because
(23:34):
in some places you're not goingto find that.
Tina (23:36):
No, I know.
Leah (23:37):
And I don't know if you can bring your own container and
say, can you put this, I mean,that's such an Oregon thing,
right?
Tina (23:41):
Oh, that'd be so Oregonian.
Leah (23:43):
You bring your glass container and say, can you make
my food in this?
Tina (23:47):
It's, it's like the Portlandia episode where they
went and met the chicken at thefarm.
Leah (23:51):
No, yeah, that's, that's truly like a, like a Portland
thing.
So I guess we'll talk about ifthere are ways of, you know,
eliminating it from our body.
And the short answer is no.
Tina (24:03):
Yeah, that's the problem.
This is why you really want toreduce it.
As in incoming because there'singestion routes, right?
We've talked about this in manyepisodes in the past.
You can only ingest so manyways.
You can only eliminate in somany ways.
You know, there's routes intoyour body, your mouth, your
lungs, your skin, and there'sroutes out your body, your
stool, your urine, your sweat,your breath, and that's it.
(24:26):
That's all you got.
You got routes in routes out.
And if it goes in and it doesn'tcome out, it's in you somewhere.
I mean, that sounds like anoversimplification, but that's
basically what we're talkingabout.
Unless we can break it down,unless we can actually digest it
or dismantle it, so to speak.
Leah (24:41):
And we can't.
Tina (24:42):
That's the problem with plastics.
Yes.
Leah (24:44):
Yeah, but the endocrine disrupters can potentially be
eliminated
Tina (24:50):
Those are chemicals.
Leah (24:51):
Right that are in the plastics
Tina (24:54):
...that are in the plastics, right.
those would be some of the 10,000 plus chemicals that medscape
talks about being in the plasticand us ingesting it due to
leaching into whatever we're,drinking or eating from the
plastic.
Leah (25:05):
And I was reading that a way to help to reduce those
chemicals is through sweating.
There was a study looking atways of reducing some of the
many chemicals that go alongwith plastic, and sweating can
help to eliminate some of them.
And so, like you just said, Imean, it's just making sure that
you're, I don't want to use theword detox, but making sure
(25:28):
you're Body's pathways ofelimination are working.
So make sure you're pooping, eatyour veggies, your plant foods,
right?
Your fiber, um, your nuts, yourbrightly colored foods to get
all of those polyphenols.
Um, make sure you're havingdaily bowel movements, regular
(25:49):
bowel movements.
Tina (25:50):
that's one of the Roots of, like, foundational measures
of health is normal bowelmovements every day.
So when someone tells me everyother day is the normal since
they were young, I still say,let's still shoot for every day
if we can, because eliminationis so important in our current
environment.
Leah (26:05):
Right.
Yeah.
Tina (26:07):
And a lot does come out that way.
Leah (26:09):
Mm hmm,
Tina (26:10):
which is how they did the study in China measuring the
microplastics in the stool,right?
Leah (26:13):
Right, right, but yeah I mean that and I think I you know
I have seen things I didn't readabout them because I was diving
so deep into all of this As youwere but I mean there are
apparently some studies lookingat Resveratrol and curcumin to
help to reduce these phthalatesand you know other chemicals So,
(26:34):
I would just say incorporatethose foods, make sure that
you're getting turmeric in yourfood, and you're getting those
dark purple y grapes, the peanutskins, um, you can go back and
listen to previous episodes.
Did we do one on resveratrol?
I think we did, I remember thepeanut skin thing from the,
Tina (26:52):
I, you know, we did talk about peanut skins in
resveratrol, I do remember thatway back when, that might have
been in season one, but um,color, color, color, follow the
color in nature.
Leah (27:00):
Yeah.
Tina (27:00):
It's always the case, and those pigments are where it's
at.
They all upregulate our abilityto, um, get rid of these toxic
substances in our cells.
So we actually pump them out.
So if you could picture a cellas having pumps on its membrane,
what goes inside can sometimesbe pumped out.
What increases the number ofexits or pumps to get that junk
out of our cells is some ofthese bioflavonoids that you're
(27:23):
talking about, polyphenols andsuch.
And it's, no one needs to nameanything, just follow the color,
eat berries, eat orange, eatyellow, eat blue, you know.
Black beans, whatever.
Just follow the color and youwill be ingesting the good
stuff.
Leah (27:35):
And you'll be getting fiber.
Tina (27:37):
And
Leah (27:37):
there's fiber.
Anything else?
I was trying to end on an upnote, and I always think that
talking about berries is an upnote.
Tina (27:46):
Yeah, yeah, I'm trying to think.
Um, the only, the only good newsis we're looking at it now.
I feel like 10 years ago, wewere kind of too early on it.
It was happening, and it wasincreasing.
But now we see Harvard Medicinecoming out in their magazine.
They just talked aboutmicroplastics being everywhere
from trash to dust to fibers tocosmetics, They went, into it in
(28:07):
great detail and Medscape justcame out.
So that means that the doctorsand the other healthcare
practitioners are being toldabout this and how it poses an
actual health risk.
Leah (28:16):
Yeah, because it's also, I mean, it's a cardiovascular
risk, right?
Tina (28:19):
Huge.
Think of it this way.
They are so small, some of them,If you inhale these particles
and they're less than 2.
5 microns, which they are in theair sometimes, they go through
your lungs, just like.
Your lungs are supposed to do,they absorb things and go
through your lungs into yourbloodstream and they can cross
through the blood brain barrier.
So when you have things crossingthrough the blood brain barrier
that shouldn't be there, that'sno bueno.
(28:40):
Because the brain doesn't haveas much ability to protect
itself, so we need to protectit.
Leah (28:45):
Or eliminate, right?
I mean, what's the pathway ofelimination for the brain?
Tina (28:49):
Glymphatics.
Leah (28:50):
That's a whole, that's a whole nother episode.
Tina (28:52):
Yes, glymphatics are amazing.
It's a lymphatic systemdedicated to the brain, and if
somebody just puts that intoGoogle Images or whatever, and
you see how the glymphaticsbasically look like waves in an
ocean going over your braintissue, kind of bringing away
the debris, the proteinaggregates, and the junk that
shouldn't be in your, in yourCSF or your brain tissue.
So that's why hydration isreally important and sleep is
(29:13):
really important because that'swhen your glymphatics clean
things out.
That's a whole nother, yeah,episode, you're right.
Leah (29:18):
So, yeah, if you're still listening after this episode
Tina (29:22):
I know.
God bless you.
Leah (29:24):
Yeah.
But, um, yeah, we'll definitelyhave links.
In the show notes and pass thison to friends.
If you've been trying toeliminate plastic in your life
and you have a friend or familymember who is just really, you
know, determined to not give uptheir single use plastic
bottles, you know, pass thisepisode on.
Tina (29:44):
And again, this is just like I mentioned to Christina.
Um, in our last episode, this isnot about a political issue, a
left right issue.
It's not about anything exceptour health and the health of our
children and generations tocome.
Right now, the cancer rates aremuch higher in people under 50
years old, and they'reskyrocketing.
And we think That among themultifactorial reasons, this is
(30:06):
one of them that's really highlyimplicated because it's around
the world and so I think we canall agree no matter where you
are in the political spectrumthat cancer in general and
certainly cancer in children andyoung people.
Should be high priority to dosomething about
Leah (30:20):
exactly.
Tina (30:21):
It's a bipartisan issue.
It's not about the environment.
It's about our health
Leah (30:24):
Well again, if people haven't listened to the episode
that we did with christina She'sthe author of a new war on
cancer and it's all about theenvironmental impact On cancer.
You can watch it on YouTube.
We have a YouTube channel and wetend to put our interviews.
Maybe this episode will go up.
We don't know yet.
I haven't decided.
Um, I'll talk to the videoeditor and see what they do.
(30:48):
But we do have videos of ourinterviews.
We've been putting them up onYouTube.
So go there and watch it.
And if you like what we'redoing, if you like what you're
hearing.
You can buy us a coffee.
The link is in the show notes.
Um, we really appreciate it.
And it helps us to pay for allof the apps and sites that we
(31:10):
need to do to produce this.
We're not making a profit off ofthis.
This is purely out of love.
And yeah, we would love for acouple of coffees from a person
or two.
Tina (31:22):
And if you head over to YouTube, don't forget to hit the
subscribe button because thathelps us out a lot and it helps
other people find us.
So
Leah (31:28):
yeah, I think as of this recording, we have 54
subscribers, which doesn't soundlike much because there are
people who have millions, butfor us, it's pretty good.
I was happy.
I was happy when we got 10.
So
Tina (31:42):
yeah, you got to start somewhere.
Leah (31:44):
Yeah.
So, on that note, I'm Dr.
Leah Sherman.
Tina (31:47):
And I'm Dr.
Tina Kaczor.
Leah (31:49):
And this is the Cancer Pod.
Until next time.
(32:34):
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