August 26, 2025 • 25 mins
We are still on our summer break so we are dropping this episode: Greatest Hits: The Thank-You Note Advantage
In a digital world, a thank-you note still stands out. In this episode, Kristian Schwartz, founder of The Montgomery Group, shares why this simple gesture can elevate your professional brand and help you leave a lasting impression—especially during the job search.
You’ll learn:
- Why thank-you notes matter more than ever
- The surprising impact when candidates don’t send them
- Digital vs. handwritten: what works best and when
- How generational views shape thank-you note etiquette
- Why this small step builds your long-term career reputation
Jill Griffin, host of The Career Refresh, delivers expert guidance on workplace challenges and career transitions. Jill leverages her experience working for the world's top brands like Coca-Cola, Microsoft, Hilton Hotels, and Martha Stewart to address leadership, burnout, team dynamics, and the 4Ps (perfectionism, people-pleasing, procrastination, and personalities).
Visit JillGriffinCoaching.com for more details on:
- Book a 1:1 Career Strategy and Executive Coaching HERE
- Build a Leadership Identity That Earns Trust and Delivers Results.
- Gallup CliftonStrengths Corporate Workshops to build a strengths-based culture
- Team Dynamics training to increase retention, communication, goal setting, and effective decision-making
- Keynote Speaking
- Grab a personal Resume Refresh with Jill Griffin HERE
Follow @JillGriffinOffical on Instagram for daily inspiration
Connect with and follow Jill on LinkedIn
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, welcome back.
I'm your host, jill Griffin.
Today we are talking about thepower of the thank you note, and
what I have seen a lot on thesocials and LinkedIn and in
Fishbowl is that people aren'tsending them.
They said, well, you know, Ishook the person's hand in the
interview or at the end of theMicrosoft Teams meeting, I said
(00:23):
thank you, and that should beenough.
And like this makes me want tolike ah, sending a thank you
note, whether it is digital orhandwritten, and we're going to
talk about, you know, some ofthat in this episode is showing
the recipient and those involvedthat you go above and beyond,
(00:43):
that you have an attention todetail and that you care.
And for this conversation today,I am bringing on my friend and
former colleague, christianSchwartz.
He spearheads the MontgomeryGroup, which is a boutique
search firm that he established,specializing in senior level
marketing and media placements.
He is a strategic leader thatis renowned for elevating
(01:04):
premier brands through a blendof both strategic hiring and
consulting expertise.
His experience spans WiredMagazine, razorfish, sapient.
He's also collaborated withinfluential Fortune 500 brands
like Visa, clorox, verizon,unilever, hewlett Packard.
And I'm bringing him on becausewhile we were colleagues in
(01:28):
different offices with a verylarge, 100,000 person plus
holding company.
He was known for his thank younotes and he actually hand wrote
thank you notes on gorgeousstack and it made him stick out
for me, to me in the amount ofpeople that we were talking to
on a regular basis and I workwith amazing people in all the
offices, but here is someonethat stuck out that I never to
(01:51):
this day.
I have never met him in person,and one of these days one of us
is going to get to Atlanta orNew York City when the other one
is in town and we're actuallygoing to grab a cup of tea or
coffee.
I brought Christian on becausehe, I think, is one of the
masters in thank you notes andwe have a discussion.
We agree, I would say 99%, oneverything.
(02:13):
He keeps his thank you notes.
Myself, living in a New YorkCity apartment, I take pictures
of my thank you notes and savethem.
We're going to talk about why wedo that.
We also talk about how this isabout your professional brand.
A professional brand is about afew different things, but if
you think about it from the lensof uniqueness, making sure you
have a point of difference andyou're differentiating yourself.
(02:35):
There's a professionalism in itand attention to detail in it,
making yourself memorable,driving with consistency and
authenticity, and, obviously,that emotional connection which
is all part of a brand.
I also like to think that abrand consists of a professional
brand, consists of thepersonality and your point of
(02:56):
difference you bring, yourproficiency or your skills and
your sales that you bring, andthen also it often connects to
the pain point, and the painpoint can be anything from the
thing that annoys the heck outof you, the thing that, oh, I'm
never going to want to gothrough this thing again.
Right, it's that pain pointthat you then take a stand on
(03:18):
and that's what connects to youthat you are representing.
That not on my watch.
We are not going to notappreciate our customers or our
clients or our employees, sowe're going to always send thank
you notes, right?
That's where it connects in.
So give a listen, as always.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
I want to hear from you?
Speaker 1 (03:34):
Do you send handwritten notes?
Do you send digital notes?
Do you send text messages?
Do you hit them up in the DMson LinkedIn and say thank you
that way?
Do you think that they're sillyand you don't want to do them
at all?
I want to hear from you.
So either comment on my socials, email me at hello at
jillgriffincoachingcom.
Friends, embrace possibility,be thankful, send those notes
(03:58):
and, as always, be kind.
I hope you enjoyed this episodeand I'll see you next time.
Christian, welcome back.
Thank you for having me Allright.
My friends, christian and I,were talking because I saw a
post on LinkedIn about the powerof thank you notes and how the
handwritten thank you note beingsuch a lovely thing to receive
(04:20):
and then, of course, the actualtyped written thank you note is
also equally important.
And then I was wandering aroundand fishbowl and some other
places and I was seeing thedisdain for people, from people
saying they hate thank you notes.
They never write them, theydon't include cover letters.
I mean, sometimes they'reoptional, sometimes they're not,
(04:41):
but if they're not, you need acover letter and how people just
feel like they're not needed.
And oh my gosh, here's my friend, christian, that I've known for
many years that has thesegorgeous stock quality thank you
notes.
It's one of the things thatbuilt our relationship, because
every time we talked I got agorgeous thank you note from
Christian in the mail, and it'swhat built our relationship.
(05:03):
He lives in Atlanta, I live inNew York City.
We wouldn't have probably met.
Well, we worked for the sameholding company, but we probably
wouldn't have met at some point.
So I want to talk to you aboutthis, christian, because you and
I completely disagree with someof the wisdom out there that,
oh, you don't need thank younotes and you don't need to do
anything um cover letters oranything that goes the extra
(05:26):
step.
My work stands for itself.
What say you?
Speaker 2 (05:32):
Where, where, where to get started?
Um, send it, send thehandwritten thank you note.
And I think one thing that I'verealized is that marketers fail
in marketing themselves andthat we spend time focusing on
the customer experience, thecustomer journey, surprise and
(05:53):
delight, but yet is an email inyour inbox?
No one gets an email in theirinbox and is happy about it,
right?
So you're going to sendsomebody a thank you note via an
email, or some people don'teven send those.
I would say maybe 50% of peoplesend email, thank yous, much
less a handwritten note, and allI can say is I love receiving a
(06:17):
handwritten thank you note.
It is amazing, it feels goodand it's an extension of your
brand.
It's how you think aboutyourself, it's how you feel
about yourself, and it takes twominutes, it probably costs $2.
Why wouldn't you?
I can't think of a singlereason why you wouldn't do it.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
I mean, you've said so many things that I want to
come back to.
So the first thing you said washow many marketers forget that
they have to also marketthemselves, whether you're going
for an opportunity internally,whether you want to network and
make connections within theindustry you work in, or whether
you're actually interviewingoutside of the company you're
currently at, or you'reunemployed and you're looking
(07:00):
for your next opportunity.
It is a marketing campaign.
People, you are the product.
The sell sheet is the resume.
We need to make sure that weare marketing yourself, and part
of that and that is the otherthing you said that I love,
christian is it's about theextension of your brand.
What does your brand stand for?
And you show me those things bythe way.
(07:21):
You show up around theexperience of what we call the
job interview and sending me athank you note, right One.
It makes me.
It makes it memorable.
I work with a lot of recruitersdoing what I do as an executive
and career coach.
Right, it's made me.
It's made you memorable to meand why we continue to build our
relationship over the years.
(07:42):
It's the attention to detail.
You know digital communication.
If that's what works for you,that's the very least table
stakes as writing a thank younote, and it's showing that
attention to detail and thathandwritten note that I just
think is such that extrapersonal touch that creates that
emotional impact.
That isn't that what you want,and you said it when we were
(08:05):
talking before Christian aboutdon't you want to show them that
you're going to go and think ofthat attention to detail or go
that extra mile or be reallythoughtful when you're in the
job, and this is one of the waysto show it.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
Yeah, it's.
You know, when I started theMontgomery Group I remember this
specifically I went toStarbucks and I sat down and I
was thinking about what is mypositioning right?
And you start thinking aboutupper right-hand quadrant
transformation, some sort oftransformative technology, and I
came to the realization that,you know, no, it's about
(08:39):
relationships.
And if you look at the bottomleft-hand corner, what's it
about?
It's about showing up, it'sabout authentic, it's being real
, it's following through anddelivering.
Sure, the upper right-handquadrant stuff exists, and it
was a light bulb that went off,which is people are in this
digital era and they send textmessages and they send LinkedIn
messages.
(08:59):
And it's like you know what?
How do I genuinely say thankyou for someone taking the time
to speak with me?
Nobody needs to speak with me,right?
And how do I genuinely saythank you?
An email?
Come on, you're jammingsomeone's inbox, right?
Speaker 1 (09:13):
You're going to get lost.
I mean, there's a chance againthe email breaks through, but
the odds are they havenewsletters going into that
email box, plus every otherperson in their company is going
into that email box.
You're going to get lost.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
So the last two jobs that I had, I remember I started
work and on the first day thehiring manager had my thank you
notes sitting on their desk, oh,and they saved it for a good
period of time and it justcompletely stuck with me of just
(09:47):
how important it is.
And also, too, is your point ofgood card stock, which is early
on in my career.
I remember this was before Iknew anything about letterpress
and printed materials, but therewere some senior people that
were evaluating someone'sbusiness card.
It's kind of like AmericanPsycho and they're like it's
letterpress.
Look at the card stock.
(10:08):
And I think it was one of theGoodby cards in San Francisco,
maybe because they were alwaysletterpress and they were
beautiful.
And they gave me advice andthey just said whenever the time
comes, you have to pick, youknow, business card letterhead,
et cetera.
Pick something so nice, they'llnever throw it away.
And it's true and I have.
(10:31):
I have a drawer full of cardsthat people have sent me because
I feel bad throwing it away andso I keep it.
And you know, hey, if you canstick in someone's mind like
that, that's pretty amazing.
One other thing, too, is therewas a search that I worked on
with a fortune 50 company anincredible role.
The candidates were all.
Everybody wanted this role.
It was an incredible role andthe hiring manager called me and
(10:53):
said I'm really challenged bythis.
The entire finalist slate.
Nobody has sent a thank younote, no way.
We were discussing whether weshould start over and how
important it is.
Or is it a matter of just thatwe are aging, we're not even
that old, and that we shouldlower our expectations?
(11:13):
And it's interesting?
But I think why do you need tolower your expectations If you
can face the bar view as amarketer?
Differentiate yourself.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
Yeah, so I think that's a good point.
So let's look at the other sideof it, right?
So anyone listening you know ifyou're newer in your career Gen
Z, millennial what I often hearis that you know you've grown
up with digital communication sothat it's the norm just to
doing emails and texts and likesocial messages through social
(11:44):
media.
Any of those platforms are justmore familiar with you, and
that's fine if everyone involvedin the process is your peer in
generation, right.
But we know that a workplaceisn't, so you need to.
Again, if you're thinking aboutways of your personal brand,
you need to think through maybeone of the persons on the
interview you do send an emailto or you write them a thank you
(12:09):
through LinkedIn, if that's howyou're connected.
But really think through again,it's that attention to detail
the people you might be meetingwith and who you think would
really appreciate.
I would say, send everyone ahandwritten note, but again,
that's what we understand.
So the second thing is theinstant gratification, right,
that expectant for instantresponses, the speed of digital
(12:30):
communication.
You're expecting that you'regoing to send something and
you're going to get an emailback from the person right away.
You might you also might beburied under a thousand emails
in their box.
I'll tell you, there was awoman once and yes, I hired her
that after the interview shewent out to the lobby, hand,
(12:52):
wrote her note and delivered itback, like, clearly figured out
a way to negotiate back with thesecurity guard to get back in,
to leave the handwritten note atreception for me.
And then, like the next time Ipopped through reception, they
were like, oh, you have a letter, a hand delivered letter here
for you and it was the thank younote for the woman.
I mean, talk about speed.
And yes, she got the job genius, but left a double impression,
(13:17):
not only having brought thestationary with her to the job
interview, but took the time andwrote a really thoughtful note.
You know you talked about yousave them all.
I understand some people mighthave environmental concerns Okay
, fair enough.
I laugh and think well, I livein a New York city apartment, I
(13:38):
don't have a home in Atlanta, Idon't know that I have the space
for all the handwritten notes.
But, people, from a mindsetstandpoint, I have a photograph
I took with my camera of everythank you note I've ever
received.
I have thank you notes fromclients, my days back in
Microsoft and Coca-Cola peoplewho wrote me, senior CMOs of
(14:00):
those companies who wrote methank you notes for the work
that I did.
That I have a photograph of andI have a file on my Google
folders, my Google drive, thatis called thank yous, because on
the days where you are it justfeels heavy.
There is nothing better than togo and open that thank you
(14:20):
drawer, that thank you file, andread the thank yous you've got.
So if you know what emotionalconnection that does for you
some level of that emotionalconnection, that meaning that
that grace is going to hitsomeone else what do you got,
christian?
Speaker 2 (14:37):
I love that you do that.
I have the same.
I have the same folder and it'swhen you're running your own
company.
You will have incredible daysand you will have tough days.
And if you're in the middle ofa tough day it's sometimes nice
to go to that folder and it'slike, oh, things are great, I'm
a fan.
(14:57):
Look, just send it.
I say send the email and sendthe handwritten note.
Double it up Because peoplethey may not get the handwritten
note.
The it up because people theymay not get the handwritten note
.
The corporate mail room hasalways been a little bit of a
mystery, and especially withcovid.
Now it can make it morechallenging or post, post covid,
but I think it's a matter ofsending both.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
And I've also just asked you're not sending it to
their home.
Let me be clear you are notstalking and finding out their
home address unless they havemade that known to you.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
OK.
So it's funny you say thatbecause during covid I struggled
and I stopped sending thankyous because to say hey, what's
your home address Felt a littlebit awkward.
And I've been able to.
With people returning to office, you can obviously direct it to
the office.
But I think at the same point,if, if someone is working from
(15:48):
home, it's a matter of justsaying, you know, if you're
comfortable, what is the bestmailing address?
Totally I'd like.
I'd like to send something toyou and I've never had anybody,
not, you know, be okay with thatagain asking, asking someone
how they can be treated I'd like, I'd like, to send you a thank
you note, if you're comfortable.
What is the?
What is the best address?
And I've never had someone youknow not be okay with that, but
(16:13):
I think it's just, you know,send.
Send the email within 24 hours.
Now I am curious with you onthis of length and I like.
For example, my handwriting isatrocious.
I call it artistic.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
You have amazing handwriting.
It's distinctive.
It looks like a creative.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
I keep it brief because it's not.
It's not legible.
I give my children and my wifeholiday cards and I have to read
them for them.
Um, but I also think it's.
I just think it's good to besincere and I've had people send
me email thank you notes andit's paragraph upon paragraph
and I'll be honest, I don't wanta paragraph, but I think it's
(16:52):
more of a truly honest andsincere, heartfelt thank you.
And if you can summarize in anauthentic way, you know maybe
why you're the fit, great.
But I feel like this kind ofcut and paste, or you know, or
God forbid, it's some chat GPTgenerated thing which is
atrocious.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
People know when that's People know, and also
like you don't use those wordsin your regular language, so-.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
And I think it's like who are you as a human and
that's and if I can see aglimpse of that, that's who
we're hiring and that's that, tome, is what is what wins the
day.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
So so here's what I would say to that, and again, I
love that, again, we're not.
We're not differing in ouropinion, it's just different
angles.
And I would probably use the um, the email communication, to be
a little bit more specificabout the role.
If there was something that,after I left the interview, that
I feel like I wanted to drivehome or, you know, acknowledge
or pull out, I might includethat in the digital
(17:50):
communication.
I don't, I agree with you.
This is not paragraphs.
This is like I mean, I don'tknow, maybe it's 50 to 100 words
.
We're talking like succinctbecause no one has time.
Plus, most people are readingon their mobile device, not on
their actual laptop, so it'slike how many times you're going
to scroll up the page?
So I think that you could putmore detail in the digital
(18:11):
communication.
Also, I don't have to decipherhandwriting, so maybe it's
affirming some of that, but Ithink the handwritten one is
again hitting on that, thoseparts of like what was it about
the conversation that youenjoyed, that you're
appreciative for?
How can you create thatemotional impact and think about
(18:32):
it as creating a relationship?
You may not get this job, butthat doesn't mean that you
wouldn't necessarily meet thatperson at another time in
another role and come acrossthem, and it's about again
building that brand.
I think it's really importantand the research which is I was
going to touch on there's alsoresearch to show about it.
There is a book called thePower of the Handwritten Note by
(18:55):
Kumar and Epley and it talksreally about how people
consistently underestimate thepositive impact of expressing
gratitude through handwrittennotes, underestimate the
positive impact of expressinggratitude through handwritten
notes, and that this study showsthat recipients feel more
surprised and happier than theintenders had anticipated.
So that idea of I get my lumpof mail, which is, you know,
(19:19):
some dead magazines and maybe arandom bill that I forgot to go
paperless on, and then there's ahandwritten note for me that's
a thank you note.
How nice.
What are your thoughts?
Speaker 2 (19:31):
I have a friend who recently started a company and
it's a little bit of a tangent,but this will make sense and he
said if my company is successful, I'm going to be able to make a
profit.
And I had a short circuit.
Literally I was like ifCouldn't even believe he was
saying that it's like it is not.
If you have to will yourselfinto wherever you want to be and
(19:54):
who you are and you know Idon't want to get all woo-woo,
but it's just you manifest whatyou want to be.
And I think that's where thethank you note even if the thank
you note I don't even know if50% of my thank you notes make
it I'm still going to send thembecause I'm putting that energy
out there and just be thatperson, show up and just care,
(20:22):
and I just think there's such ashortage of that I've received.
This is crazy.
I've received multiple thankyous to my thank you notes.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
No, thank you.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
It literally blows my mind and the person's like I
want to show you my stationeryand I'll tell you right now.
That person is sealed in mymind forever.
I'm sealed in their mind and weshare that connection.
I also think something that'simportant is you know, let's say
, you meet with an executive andthe you know support staff
helps schedule the meeting.
(20:55):
Send an email to the supportstaff too.
Let's be honest, that's thereal and that's just just.
Every, every time, don't sendit to that person, don't, don't
miss that.
That is and it's just.
It's the right thing to do, andthose people will sometimes
(21:15):
take it for granted andforgotten, and you know who
doesn't need a little love.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
We all love.
I mean, I had a client recentlytell me that it was a
face-to-face interview, which alot of our interviews are also
being done virtual right but itwas a face-to-face interview and
she was able to figure outenough about the structure that
she knew that she would begreeted, most likely by someone
in the support staff who wouldguide her to meet the person
that was doing the interview.
(21:40):
She brought the support staffperson a gift, just a little
gift.
The support staff person a gift, just a little gift.
Like not again, not every placewould, this would be okay for
but she brought a $20 gift cardto Starbucks and a cute coffee
mug which feels benign enough.
Right, it's not payola, it'sright, but just was like here,
(22:02):
hope you have a bright day andyou know we'll see what happens
as we go on.
But I assure you the next timeshe emails or follows up, that
person who escorted her in andgot the gift card and the coffee
mug is going to be like oh,this person gets it.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
Yeah, it's just the Again, just be that person.
Be that person, right?
I think it's just kind of justjust show up in every way and it
and it sounds so strange butit's just so important.
But I also think too, you know,look, if you're Jill, let's say
(22:42):
I'm going to hire you and putyou on a.
You know it's, it's, it's.
You're going to lead marketingfor a fortune 50 brand and you
can't send a thank you note.
How are you going to treat thatbrand's most important?
You know customers or vendors,and it's just a, it's, it's
those little things.
Because people I'll be honest,I work much harder for people
(23:03):
that take care of me.
Who doesn't?
And it's not that I work harder, but it's a that little slice
of my heart and soul, when youreally take care of me, that
just shows up and if you can winthat over, that's, that's what
it's about.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
So All right, any final words before we wrap?
Speaker 2 (23:21):
Just send the thank you note.
Yeah, your mom was right Sendthe thank you notes.
I resisted when I was young.
It took me too long.
My teenage daughters I'mgetting them on the wagon, but
just send the thank you note.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
Beautiful.
Okay, so Christian mentionedLetterpress and I have a dear
friend who does custom.
She creates custom cards andpapery and just does beautiful
work.
And if that is not for you orthat it's not in your budget,
get a set of thank you cards.
You can get them, you know.
You can order them online.
(23:54):
You can go support your localbusiness or local stationery
store and get a set of cards sothat you always have them If you
have to like.
Oh, I have to go buy a thankyou card.
The odds that you're going tofollow through is going to be
harder.
So remove the resistance and gobuy yourself, you know, a $10,
10 pack of cards, a dollar card,have a couple of stamps on hand
(24:15):
and it's really fun to write insomeone's day in such a small
little way.
And also, as we've been talkinga lot, if you've been a long
time listener, you know it'sabout your personal brand.
All right, friends, as always,I thank you for being here.
If you have any questions, youcan email me at hello, at
jillgriffincoachingcom, you cancomment on the socials and, as
(24:38):
always, I will see you next time.
I'm Jill Griffin, your host ofthe careerresh podcast.
My mission is to makeworkplaces more successful for
everyone.
So if you have ideas for topicsor future guests, please email
us at hello atjillgriffincoachingcom.
Until next time, embracepossibility, be generous,
(25:00):
intentional and kind.
Hey, welcome back.
I'm your host, jill Griffin.
Today we are talking about thepower of the thank you note, and
what I have seen a lot on thesocials and LinkedIn and in
Fishbowl is that people aren'tsending them.
They said, well, you know, Ishook the person's hand in the
interview or at the end of theMicrosoft Teams meeting, I said
(00:23):
thank you, and that should beenough.
And like this makes me want tolike ah, sending a thank you
note, whether it is digital orhandwritten, and we're going to
talk about, you know, some ofthat in this episode is showing
the recipient and those involvedthat you go above and beyond,
(00:43):
that you have an attention todetail and that you care.
And for this conversation today,I am bringing on my friend and
former colleague, christianSchwartz.
He spearheads the MontgomeryGroup, which is a boutique
search firm that he established,specializing in senior level
marketing and media placements.
He is a strategic leader thatis renowned for elevating
(01:04):
premier brands through a blendof both strategic hiring and
consulting expertise.
His experience spans WiredMagazine, razorfish, sapient.
He's also collaborated withinfluential Fortune 500 brands
like Visa, clorox, verizon,unilever, hewlett Packard.
And I'm bringing him on becausewhile we were colleagues in
(01:28):
different offices with a verylarge, 100,000 person plus
holding company.
He was known for his thank younotes and he actually hand wrote
thank you notes on gorgeousstack and it made him stick out
for me, to me in the amount ofpeople that we were talking to
on a regular basis and I workwith amazing people in all the
offices, but here is someonethat stuck out that I never to
(01:51):
this day.
I have never met him in person,and one of these days one of us
is going to get to Atlanta orNew York City when the other one
is in town and we're actuallygoing to grab a cup of tea or
coffee.
I brought Christian on becausehe, I think, is one of the
masters in thank you notes andwe have a discussion.
We agree, I would say 99%, oneverything.
(02:13):
He keeps his thank you notes.
Myself, living in a New YorkCity apartment, I take pictures
of my thank you notes and savethem.
We're going to talk about why wedo that.
We also talk about how this isabout your professional brand.
A professional brand is about afew different things, but if
you think about it from the lensof uniqueness, making sure you
have a point of difference andyou're differentiating yourself.
(02:35):
There's a professionalism in itand attention to detail in it,
making yourself memorable,driving with consistency and
authenticity, and, obviously,that emotional connection which
is all part of a brand.
I also like to think that abrand consists of a professional
brand, consists of thepersonality and your point of
(02:56):
difference you bring, yourproficiency or your skills and
your sales that you bring, andthen also it often connects to
the pain point, and the painpoint can be anything from the
thing that annoys the heck outof you, the thing that, oh, I'm
never going to want to gothrough this thing again.
Right, it's that pain pointthat you then take a stand on
(03:18):
and that's what connects to youthat you are representing.
That not on my watch.
We are not going to notappreciate our customers or our
clients or our employees, sowe're going to always send thank
you notes, right?
That's where it connects in.
So give a listen, as always.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
I want to hear from you?
Speaker 1 (03:34):
Do you send handwritten notes?
Do you send digital notes?
Do you send text messages?
Do you hit them up in the DMson LinkedIn and say thank you
that way?
Do you think that they're sillyand you don't want to do them
at all?
I want to hear from you.
So either comment on my socials, email me at hello at
jillgriffincoachingcom.
Friends, embrace possibility,be thankful, send those notes
(03:58):
and, as always, be kind.
I hope you enjoyed this episodeand I'll see you next time.
Christian, welcome back.
Thank you for having me Allright.
My friends, christian and I,were talking because I saw a
post on LinkedIn about the powerof thank you notes and how the
handwritten thank you note beingsuch a lovely thing to receive
(04:20):
and then, of course, the actualtyped written thank you note is
also equally important.
And then I was wandering aroundand fishbowl and some other
places and I was seeing thedisdain for people, from people
saying they hate thank you notes.
They never write them, theydon't include cover letters.
I mean, sometimes they'reoptional, sometimes they're not,
(04:41):
but if they're not, you need acover letter and how people just
feel like they're not needed.
And oh my gosh, here's my friend, christian, that I've known for
many years that has thesegorgeous stock quality thank you
notes.
It's one of the things thatbuilt our relationship, because
every time we talked I got agorgeous thank you note from
Christian in the mail, and it'swhat built our relationship.
(05:03):
He lives in Atlanta, I live inNew York City.
We wouldn't have probably met.
Well, we worked for the sameholding company, but we probably
wouldn't have met at some point.
So I want to talk to you aboutthis, christian, because you and
I completely disagree with someof the wisdom out there that,
oh, you don't need thank younotes and you don't need to do
anything um cover letters oranything that goes the extra
(05:26):
step.
My work stands for itself.
What say you?
Speaker 2 (05:32):
Where, where, where to get started?
Um, send it, send thehandwritten thank you note.
And I think one thing that I'verealized is that marketers fail
in marketing themselves andthat we spend time focusing on
the customer experience, thecustomer journey, surprise and
(05:53):
delight, but yet is an email inyour inbox?
No one gets an email in theirinbox and is happy about it,
right?
So you're going to sendsomebody a thank you note via an
email, or some people don'teven send those.
I would say maybe 50% of peoplesend email, thank yous, much
less a handwritten note, and allI can say is I love receiving a
(06:17):
handwritten thank you note.
It is amazing, it feels goodand it's an extension of your
brand.
It's how you think aboutyourself, it's how you feel
about yourself, and it takes twominutes, it probably costs $2.
Why wouldn't you?
I can't think of a singlereason why you wouldn't do it.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
I mean, you've said so many things that I want to
come back to.
So the first thing you said washow many marketers forget that
they have to also marketthemselves, whether you're going
for an opportunity internally,whether you want to network and
make connections within theindustry you work in, or whether
you're actually interviewingoutside of the company you're
currently at, or you'reunemployed and you're looking
(07:00):
for your next opportunity.
It is a marketing campaign.
People, you are the product.
The sell sheet is the resume.
We need to make sure that weare marketing yourself, and part
of that and that is the otherthing you said that I love,
christian is it's about theextension of your brand.
What does your brand stand for?
And you show me those things bythe way.
(07:21):
You show up around theexperience of what we call the
job interview and sending me athank you note, right One.
It makes me.
It makes it memorable.
I work with a lot of recruitersdoing what I do as an executive
and career coach.
Right, it's made me.
It's made you memorable to meand why we continue to build our
relationship over the years.
(07:42):
It's the attention to detail.
You know digital communication.
If that's what works for you,that's the very least table
stakes as writing a thank younote, and it's showing that
attention to detail and thathandwritten note that I just
think is such that extrapersonal touch that creates that
emotional impact.
That isn't that what you want,and you said it when we were
(08:05):
talking before Christian aboutdon't you want to show them that
you're going to go and think ofthat attention to detail or go
that extra mile or be reallythoughtful when you're in the
job, and this is one of the waysto show it.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
Yeah, it's.
You know, when I started theMontgomery Group I remember this
specifically I went toStarbucks and I sat down and I
was thinking about what is mypositioning right?
And you start thinking aboutupper right-hand quadrant
transformation, some sort oftransformative technology, and I
came to the realization that,you know, no, it's about
(08:39):
relationships.
And if you look at the bottomleft-hand corner, what's it
about?
It's about showing up, it'sabout authentic, it's being real
, it's following through anddelivering.
Sure, the upper right-handquadrant stuff exists, and it
was a light bulb that went off,which is people are in this
digital era and they send textmessages and they send LinkedIn
messages.
(08:59):
And it's like you know what?
How do I genuinely say thankyou for someone taking the time
to speak with me?
Nobody needs to speak with me,right?
And how do I genuinely saythank you?
An email?
Come on, you're jammingsomeone's inbox, right?
Speaker 1 (09:13):
You're going to get lost.
I mean, there's a chance againthe email breaks through, but
the odds are they havenewsletters going into that
email box, plus every otherperson in their company is going
into that email box.
You're going to get lost.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
So the last two jobs that I had, I remember I started
work and on the first day thehiring manager had my thank you
notes sitting on their desk, oh,and they saved it for a good
period of time and it justcompletely stuck with me of just
(09:47):
how important it is.
And also, too, is your point ofgood card stock, which is early
on in my career.
I remember this was before Iknew anything about letterpress
and printed materials, but therewere some senior people that
were evaluating someone'sbusiness card.
It's kind of like AmericanPsycho and they're like it's
letterpress.
Look at the card stock.
(10:08):
And I think it was one of theGoodby cards in San Francisco,
maybe because they were alwaysletterpress and they were
beautiful.
And they gave me advice andthey just said whenever the time
comes, you have to pick, youknow, business card letterhead,
et cetera.
Pick something so nice, they'llnever throw it away.
And it's true and I have.
(10:31):
I have a drawer full of cardsthat people have sent me because
I feel bad throwing it away andso I keep it.
And you know, hey, if you canstick in someone's mind like
that, that's pretty amazing.
One other thing, too, is therewas a search that I worked on
with a fortune 50 company anincredible role.
The candidates were all.
Everybody wanted this role.
It was an incredible role andthe hiring manager called me and
(10:53):
said I'm really challenged bythis.
The entire finalist slate.
Nobody has sent a thank younote, no way.
We were discussing whether weshould start over and how
important it is.
Or is it a matter of just thatwe are aging, we're not even
that old, and that we shouldlower our expectations?
(11:13):
And it's interesting?
But I think why do you need tolower your expectations If you
can face the bar view as amarketer?
Differentiate yourself.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
Yeah, so I think that's a good point.
So let's look at the other sideof it, right?
So anyone listening you know ifyou're newer in your career Gen
Z, millennial what I often hearis that you know you've grown
up with digital communication sothat it's the norm just to
doing emails and texts and likesocial messages through social
(11:44):
media.
Any of those platforms are justmore familiar with you, and
that's fine if everyone involvedin the process is your peer in
generation, right.
But we know that a workplaceisn't, so you need to.
Again, if you're thinking aboutways of your personal brand,
you need to think through maybeone of the persons on the
interview you do send an emailto or you write them a thank you
(12:09):
through LinkedIn, if that's howyou're connected.
But really think through again,it's that attention to detail
the people you might be meetingwith and who you think would
really appreciate.
I would say, send everyone ahandwritten note, but again,
that's what we understand.
So the second thing is theinstant gratification, right,
that expectant for instantresponses, the speed of digital
(12:30):
communication.
You're expecting that you'regoing to send something and
you're going to get an emailback from the person right away.
You might you also might beburied under a thousand emails
in their box.
I'll tell you, there was awoman once and yes, I hired her
that after the interview shewent out to the lobby, hand,
(12:52):
wrote her note and delivered itback, like, clearly figured out
a way to negotiate back with thesecurity guard to get back in,
to leave the handwritten note atreception for me.
And then, like the next time Ipopped through reception, they
were like, oh, you have a letter, a hand delivered letter here
for you and it was the thank younote for the woman.
I mean, talk about speed.
And yes, she got the job genius, but left a double impression,
(13:17):
not only having brought thestationary with her to the job
interview, but took the time andwrote a really thoughtful note.
You know you talked about yousave them all.
I understand some people mighthave environmental concerns Okay
, fair enough.
I laugh and think well, I livein a New York city apartment, I
(13:38):
don't have a home in Atlanta, Idon't know that I have the space
for all the handwritten notes.
But, people, from a mindsetstandpoint, I have a photograph
I took with my camera of everythank you note I've ever
received.
I have thank you notes fromclients, my days back in
Microsoft and Coca-Cola peoplewho wrote me, senior CMOs of
(14:00):
those companies who wrote methank you notes for the work
that I did.
That I have a photograph of andI have a file on my Google
folders, my Google drive, thatis called thank yous, because on
the days where you are it justfeels heavy.
There is nothing better than togo and open that thank you
(14:20):
drawer, that thank you file, andread the thank yous you've got.
So if you know what emotionalconnection that does for you
some level of that emotionalconnection, that meaning that
that grace is going to hitsomeone else what do you got,
christian?
Speaker 2 (14:37):
I love that you do that.
I have the same.
I have the same folder and it'swhen you're running your own
company.
You will have incredible daysand you will have tough days.
And if you're in the middle ofa tough day it's sometimes nice
to go to that folder and it'slike, oh, things are great, I'm
a fan.
(14:57):
Look, just send it.
I say send the email and sendthe handwritten note.
Double it up Because peoplethey may not get the handwritten
note.
The it up because people theymay not get the handwritten note
.
The corporate mail room hasalways been a little bit of a
mystery, and especially withcovid.
Now it can make it morechallenging or post, post covid,
but I think it's a matter ofsending both.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
And I've also just asked you're not sending it to
their home.
Let me be clear you are notstalking and finding out their
home address unless they havemade that known to you.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
OK.
So it's funny you say thatbecause during covid I struggled
and I stopped sending thankyous because to say hey, what's
your home address Felt a littlebit awkward.
And I've been able to.
With people returning to office, you can obviously direct it to
the office.
But I think at the same point,if, if someone is working from
(15:48):
home, it's a matter of justsaying, you know, if you're
comfortable, what is the bestmailing address?
Totally I'd like.
I'd like to send something toyou and I've never had anybody,
not, you know, be okay with thatagain asking, asking someone
how they can be treated I'd like, I'd like, to send you a thank
you note, if you're comfortable.
What is the?
What is the best address?
And I've never had someone youknow not be okay with that, but
(16:13):
I think it's just, you know,send.
Send the email within 24 hours.
Now I am curious with you onthis of length and I like.
For example, my handwriting isatrocious.
I call it artistic.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
You have amazing handwriting.
It's distinctive.
It looks like a creative.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
I keep it brief because it's not.
It's not legible.
I give my children and my wifeholiday cards and I have to read
them for them.
Um, but I also think it's.
I just think it's good to besincere and I've had people send
me email thank you notes andit's paragraph upon paragraph
and I'll be honest, I don't wanta paragraph, but I think it's
(16:52):
more of a truly honest andsincere, heartfelt thank you.
And if you can summarize in anauthentic way, you know maybe
why you're the fit, great.
But I feel like this kind ofcut and paste, or you know, or
God forbid, it's some chat GPTgenerated thing which is
atrocious.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
People know when that's People know, and also
like you don't use those wordsin your regular language, so-.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
And I think it's like who are you as a human and
that's and if I can see aglimpse of that, that's who
we're hiring and that's that, tome, is what is what wins the
day.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
So so here's what I would say to that, and again, I
love that, again, we're not.
We're not differing in ouropinion, it's just different
angles.
And I would probably use the um, the email communication, to be
a little bit more specificabout the role.
If there was something that,after I left the interview, that
I feel like I wanted to drivehome or, you know, acknowledge
or pull out, I might includethat in the digital
(17:50):
communication.
I don't, I agree with you.
This is not paragraphs.
This is like I mean, I don'tknow, maybe it's 50 to 100 words
.
We're talking like succinctbecause no one has time.
Plus, most people are readingon their mobile device, not on
their actual laptop, so it'slike how many times you're going
to scroll up the page?
So I think that you could putmore detail in the digital
(18:11):
communication.
Also, I don't have to decipherhandwriting, so maybe it's
affirming some of that, but Ithink the handwritten one is
again hitting on that, thoseparts of like what was it about
the conversation that youenjoyed, that you're
appreciative for?
How can you create thatemotional impact and think about
(18:32):
it as creating a relationship?
You may not get this job, butthat doesn't mean that you
wouldn't necessarily meet thatperson at another time in
another role and come acrossthem, and it's about again
building that brand.
I think it's really importantand the research which is I was
going to touch on there's alsoresearch to show about it.
There is a book called thePower of the Handwritten Note by
(18:55):
Kumar and Epley and it talksreally about how people
consistently underestimate thepositive impact of expressing
gratitude through handwrittennotes, underestimate the
positive impact of expressinggratitude through handwritten
notes, and that this study showsthat recipients feel more
surprised and happier than theintenders had anticipated.
So that idea of I get my lumpof mail, which is, you know,
(19:19):
some dead magazines and maybe arandom bill that I forgot to go
paperless on, and then there's ahandwritten note for me that's
a thank you note.
How nice.
What are your thoughts?
Speaker 2 (19:31):
I have a friend who recently started a company and
it's a little bit of a tangent,but this will make sense and he
said if my company is successful, I'm going to be able to make a
profit.
And I had a short circuit.
Literally I was like ifCouldn't even believe he was
saying that it's like it is not.
If you have to will yourselfinto wherever you want to be and
(19:54):
who you are and you know Idon't want to get all woo-woo,
but it's just you manifest whatyou want to be.
And I think that's where thethank you note even if the thank
you note I don't even know if50% of my thank you notes make
it I'm still going to send thembecause I'm putting that energy
out there and just be thatperson, show up and just care,
(20:22):
and I just think there's such ashortage of that I've received.
This is crazy.
I've received multiple thankyous to my thank you notes.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
No, thank you.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
It literally blows my mind and the person's like I
want to show you my stationeryand I'll tell you right now.
That person is sealed in mymind forever.
I'm sealed in their mind and weshare that connection.
I also think something that'simportant is you know, let's say
, you meet with an executive andthe you know support staff
helps schedule the meeting.
(20:55):
Send an email to the supportstaff too.
Let's be honest, that's thereal and that's just just.
Every, every time, don't sendit to that person, don't, don't
miss that.
That is and it's just.
It's the right thing to do, andthose people will sometimes
(21:15):
take it for granted andforgotten, and you know who
doesn't need a little love.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
We all love.
I mean, I had a client recentlytell me that it was a
face-to-face interview, which alot of our interviews are also
being done virtual right but itwas a face-to-face interview and
she was able to figure outenough about the structure that
she knew that she would begreeted, most likely by someone
in the support staff who wouldguide her to meet the person
that was doing the interview.
(21:40):
She brought the support staffperson a gift, just a little
gift.
The support staff person a gift, just a little gift.
Like not again, not every placewould, this would be okay for
but she brought a $20 gift cardto Starbucks and a cute coffee
mug which feels benign enough.
Right, it's not payola, it'sright, but just was like here,
(22:02):
hope you have a bright day andyou know we'll see what happens
as we go on.
But I assure you the next timeshe emails or follows up, that
person who escorted her in andgot the gift card and the coffee
mug is going to be like oh,this person gets it.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
Yeah, it's just the Again, just be that person.
Be that person, right?
I think it's just kind of justjust show up in every way and it
and it sounds so strange butit's just so important.
But I also think too, you know,look, if you're Jill, let's say
(22:42):
I'm going to hire you and putyou on a.
You know it's, it's, it's.
You're going to lead marketingfor a fortune 50 brand and you
can't send a thank you note.
How are you going to treat thatbrand's most important?
You know customers or vendors,and it's just a, it's, it's
those little things.
Because people I'll be honest,I work much harder for people
(23:03):
that take care of me.
Who doesn't?
And it's not that I work harder, but it's a that little slice
of my heart and soul, when youreally take care of me, that
just shows up and if you can winthat over, that's, that's what
it's about.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
So All right, any final words before we wrap?
Speaker 2 (23:21):
Just send the thank you note.
Yeah, your mom was right Sendthe thank you notes.
I resisted when I was young.
It took me too long.
My teenage daughters I'mgetting them on the wagon, but
just send the thank you note.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
Beautiful.
Okay, so Christian mentionedLetterpress and I have a dear
friend who does custom.
She creates custom cards andpapery and just does beautiful
work.
And if that is not for you orthat it's not in your budget,
get a set of thank you cards.
You can get them, you know.
You can order them online.
(23:54):
You can go support your localbusiness or local stationery
store and get a set of cards sothat you always have them If you
have to like.
Oh, I have to go buy a thankyou card.
The odds that you're going tofollow through is going to be
harder.
So remove the resistance and gobuy yourself, you know, a $10,
10 pack of cards, a dollar card,have a couple of stamps on hand
(24:15):
and it's really fun to write insomeone's day in such a small
little way.
And also, as we've been talkinga lot, if you've been a long
time listener, you know it'sabout your personal brand.
All right, friends, as always,I thank you for being here.
If you have any questions, youcan email me at hello, at
jillgriffincoachingcom, you cancomment on the socials and, as
(24:38):
always, I will see you next time.
I'm Jill Griffin, your host ofthe careerresh podcast.
My mission is to makeworkplaces more successful for
everyone.
So if you have ideas for topicsor future guests, please email
us at hello atjillgriffincoachingcom.
Until next time, embracepossibility, be generous,
(25:00):
intentional and kind.
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