July 9, 2024 • 39 mins
#011 - What does it truly mean to strive for excellence and be detached from outcomes? Lisa Canning, known as the "Possibility Mom," joins us to unpack these questions from a Catholic viewpoint.
Lisa shares how it's possible to balance ambition with spiritual integrity. This conversation is rich with insights on pursuing excellence while staying grounded.
We discuss how relying on Jesus has helped us navigate turbulent waters and how such trials can deepen our relationship with the Lord.
We explore the vital balance between personal effort and divine trust and how embracing this balance can fortify our spiritual journey. It's about who we become in the process of our pursuit of excellence.
Connect with Lisa on Instagram.
Learn more about Lisa and her husband's ministry Persevere Together.
Check out The Guiding Star Project.
Are you ready to build high-impact habits of body, mind, and soul that actually stick? Check out the Catholic Path to Excellence today to find out how you can be more consistent in your habits and excel in every aspect of your life.
Feeling "stuck" in your life? Coaching could be the solution you need to break through whatever is holding you back. Book a FREE Call with me today to find out how I can help you.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
You're listening to the Catholic Pursuit of
Excellence, the show that helpsyou accomplish more, stress less
and become the saint Godcreated you to be.
I'm your host, life and healthcoach, jessica Castillo, and I
am joined today by none otherthan the possibility mom herself
, lisa Canning.
(00:23):
Lisa, welcome to the show.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
I'm so happy to be here.
I love your new podcast.
It makes me very, very, veryhappy to hear it.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
Thank you.
I'm pretty excited about itmyself.
So one of the really coolthings about this show is we get
to explore what it means to, asa Catholic, really strive for
and pursue excellence, and Ithink that it's so important
that we have a show like thisthat is from a very Catholic
(00:55):
perspective, because the way theworld pursues excellence and
the way we are called to pursueexcellence as Catholics can
sometimes look very different.
However, we all know when wesee Catholics in the public
space who are really excellentat whatever they do whether it
is like a sports star or even acoach or a musician or an actor
(01:20):
or an actress and we recognizeexcellence, we see this person
is doing exceptionally atwhatever it is that they're
doing, and it might not haveanything to do with the Catholic
church or evangelizationdirectly, but they're excellent
at what they do and thatattracts people.
I think that excellence attractspeople.
However, I think sometimes wecan get really confused about
(01:46):
what does it mean to strive forand pursue this excellence
without getting completelywrapped up in outcomes and to be
very graspy and clingy about it, and I have learned so much
about this particular conceptfrom none other than Lisa
Canning, so I thought she wouldbe the perfect person to have on
(02:08):
the show to talk about.
What does that look like?
What does it feel like toreally and truly be detached
from outcomes while striving tobe your best?
Speaker 2 (02:29):
striving to be your best.
I mean I wish I was not anexpert in this.
I mean I say that kind ofplayfully, but I've had some
unique experiences that have,just through the school of hard
knocks, taught me what it lookslike to detach from the outcome.
I think it's interesting.
I grew up in an industry so Igot my start in television and
then I went into high-endinterior design because my start
(02:49):
in television was on an HGTVshow and a lot of the people I
surrounded myself with werereally really great people but
very concerned with I guesscompetition is the easiest way
to put it.
Like my observation of a lot ofmy colleagues was that they
were always chasing the bestproject, or the cover of the
(03:13):
magazine, or the this, the thatOkay, now I need the best
project in another country.
There was always this pursuitof something more Same thing in
television.
Like there was always a bettershow to be on a better time slot
.
And of course, when you'rearound people like I'm very
(03:35):
fascinated by what influencesour motivations, right,
obviously we're motivated or welearn that something is true
from our parents, from ourfamily of origin, there are
certain concepts that becomethen ingrained in us and we
believe our truth, whetherthey're actually true or not, we
believe that they're true.
Right, and similarly,especially in the very beginning
(03:56):
of your career, one can just belike well, this is obviously
what makes sense.
This is obviously what I muststrive for, and so I developed
lots and lots and lots of habitsthat were really challenging to
unlearn or to soften.
And that's the thing I thinkyou're hitting on is that how do
you pursue excellence?
So how do you do something, bethe best at something, or do
(04:20):
something to the best of yourabilities?
And it's interesting.
I've gotten a lot of value fromdigging into my M-code
assessment.
M-code is a assessment thatlooks at your unique motivations
, developed by Dr Josh Millerand his family at the Franciscan
University of Jubinville, andone of my top motivators is to
(04:45):
excel.
I'm pretty sure it's yours aswell, right?
Yeah, I am very motivated bybeing the best at whatever it is
, and so there is thisinteresting tension that exists
between the performance.
I think there's some integritythere as well, like meaning just
doing something at yourabsolute best because you value
(05:05):
doing something well, but then adetachment that when you have
done that so you have treated itwith integrity, like it's funny
.
I'll just give a quick.
I'm a mom of 10, my oldest is15 and he just did, for the very
first time, exams in a highschool setting.
And he was like, mom, I'm justlike not even going to study for
(05:26):
my Latin exam.
And I was like that's aninteresting suggestion.
I was like that's veryinteresting.
That is one way that you couldproceed about your Latin exam.
And so I kind of prodded him alittle.
I was like, well, why wouldn'tyou study?
Oh well, I just really don'tcare about it.
And like I'll probably get agood grade anyway, like whatever
, right.
(05:46):
And I was like, okay, that'slike a decision you can make.
So, yeah, if you feel like youactually are adept enough to do
this well, without studying,sure, but I really challenged
him.
I was like but I really wantyou to examine and consider is
this how you would approach thiswith high integrity?
It might be and it might not be, but I really want you to
(06:08):
examine it.
And then at the end of the 20minute conversation he was like
yeah, okay, maybe I'm being lazyand I really should just study.
And I was like all right, veryintrigued by how people justify
behavior.
I do it all the time, you know,like all the time, but I've had
(06:29):
to become aware of where am Ijustifying things?
Anyways, that's a whole other,just pet project I'm currently
working on.
Where in my life am I noticingthat I'm justifying or excusing
perhaps not the most virtuous ofbehavior, and where can I
increase that?
So yeah, basically, that's itis.
How can you pursue somethingwith excellence but then be okay
(06:51):
when it doesn't work out?
Speaker 1 (06:53):
Yeah, and I think it's really interesting where
you're talking about in that inyour background, with HDTV and
interior design and justbringing that into your current
business and into your, youmight've had some of these
habits where it is almost like arefusal to be content with
(07:14):
where you are and what you haveaccomplished.
You can only seek for the nextlevel and push forward, and I do
think that that's a very bigdistinction, not just the
detachment from outcomes, notjust I am going to pursue this
goal, I'm going to do my best,I'm going to strive, I'm going
to and I think we all recognizewhat that feels like when we are
(07:37):
at the absolute edge of ourcapabilities and it feels kind
of awesome because we arepushing, we are stretching, we
are growing, we're becoming thatbetter version of ourselves,
that saint version of ourselves.
Honestly, if we're doing it withvirtue and it feels good to be
pushing ourselves in that way, Ithink the shadow side of it is
(08:02):
when we refuse to also begrateful for the process itself
and to recognize actually it'sin the pursuit that I can be
grateful, because it feels goodto be doing this work, to be
doing honorable work.
Whatever it is, your honorablework could be digging a ditch as
(08:23):
well as you can dig that ditch.
But when you are pushingyourself and you are toiling at
work because work is honorable,work is a gift from God when
you're toiling in that way, withvirtue, with honor, it doesn't
matter how big the ditch is orhow deep the hole is, or how
it's the best ditch thatanyone's ever dug in the whole
(08:43):
history of ditch digging thehole is, or how it's the best
ditch that anyone's ever dug inthe whole history of ditch
digging.
What matters is you gave ityour all and did your best, and
that in itself is an honor,because if the Lord of the
universe hands you a task to dowhich is basically every task we
have when we show up to it anddo it well, it's honorable to
serve the Lord in that way.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
You know it's the process that you're talking
about where I have had to growsignificantly in the last few
years.
I've shared publicly on mypodcast a couple big business
sad bears experiences, and justone notable one was I hosted a
really big summit.
I wanna say this is like August2021, I want to say so a couple
(09:27):
of years ago from time ofrecording and my previous summit
.
So we're talking like in thepandemic, when everyone was home
and had nothing else to do butwatch these online summits over
and over again.
All my previous summits hadbeen in the multi-value figures,
like they were very successfulsummits.
(09:47):
And then I hosted this one inAugust and I remember just being
like check, check, check.
I've checked all the boxes.
I did that thing with fullintegrity, like it was done
excellently and the financialoutcome did not happen at all,
like not even a little bit atall.
And I remember I know you'llappreciate this I was counting
(10:10):
conversions on Sunday, masssitting in the pew during mass
counting, calculating theconversion that based on I knew
I was going to get the mostsales Sunday.
Typically there's a last chancekind of thing that would happen
on the Sunday night, so I knewI was going to get the most
sales.
Sunday Typically there's a lastchance kind of thing that would
happen on the Sunday night.
So I knew more would come.
But you knew you had anindication, based on
(10:32):
registrations and all that kindof thing, what your likely
outcome was going to be in theevening.
And I just remember sittingthere in mass, literally like
calculator in my head, andrealizing that it was not going
to be the financial payout thatI was hoping for.
That's just one example.
I have lived a lot of life inthe last 24 months that have
(10:56):
also shown me that it's so muchmore about the process.
And here's the thing when werealize what the ultimate goal
is in life, truly like when youpull back the camera greater to
30,000 feet and you're lookingat truly just what is the actual
(11:16):
point?
The actual point is the process.
Actual point is what ishappening to prepare ourselves
for our ultimate destination.
And even as I'm saying itliterally, there's a voice in my
head, jessica, that is sayingyeah, yeah, yeah.
Literally there's a voice in myhead that goes yeah, yeah, yeah
(11:38):
, yeah, yeah.
But you still want to be thebest and you still want to do
the thing.
But it's been very muchimpressed upon me.
Just some unique things havehappened.
I had a miscarriage in the lasttwo years.
We moved internationally in thelast two years.
I wouldn't say that I was allthat excited to move from where
I was.
We could not find housing inthe new spot that we landed.
(12:00):
We lived in 10 homes in 10months while I was pregnant with
baby number 10.
I will chuckle with God abouthow poetic he is in his use of
the number 10 in my life, but itwas a process like talk about a
process, and I was the solebreadwinner for much of that
period and so I couldn't exactlyjust like crawl into a hole and
(12:22):
cry Although, to be frank, fora lot of the last 24 months that
was my inclination.
I just wanted to take like allmy kids and my husband and just
sort of like nuzzle in a littleburrow, a little hole, and just
be happy and cozy and not worryabout the outside world and
definitely not show up on theinternet.
But I couldn't do that becausewe had bills to pay and we had
(12:45):
children to educate and clientsto serve and obligations and all
the things, and so I had tolearn what it looks like to be
excellent or to just pursuethings with excellence.
Do your best to pursue thingswith excellence when you really
just want to hide and cry and besad.
(13:07):
And that was just the veryvaluable learning lesson over
this last season of my life.
I'll call it in understandingthat it truly is about the
process, my husband.
There have been somesignificant trials, trials that
I share publicly and I'm happyto share publicly, some
significant trials, trials thatI share publicly and I'm happy
to share publicly.
But then trials that I willnever share publicly and are
(13:27):
just for the privacy of myself,my husband and the Lord.
And we just went throughsomething that is on the more
private end.
And my husband brought this bookto me.
It was interesting.
It's a Father Jacques Philippebook and, forgive me, the title
is escaping me, but it's a newerone and it had a question in it
.
Reflect for a moment on peoplewho you have observed have
(13:50):
suffered a lot, but theirsuffering has actually brought
them closer to the Lord.
And he was like Lisa, that'syou Like, as he was reading it
himself.
He was like I have watched youbecome absolutely reliant on the
Lord and I think that's thedanger.
I guess I'll call it, for lackof better word right now.
(14:13):
But the danger that can comewhen you're a high achiever and
you're used to, is you can justsimply think that you can do
everything on your own by yourefforts, by your skills, by your
talents.
And I'll be honest, I stillfind this a little confusing,
jessica, because it is my skillsand talents, like it is, I
(14:36):
participate in that.
Like I'm the one who gets upand exercises, I'm the one who
gets up and makes nice meals formy family.
Like I'm the one who gets upand exercises, I'm the one who
gets up and makes nice meals formy family.
Like it is me I'm making thechoice to do it.
So it does confuse me stillsometimes, if I'm being really
honest.
But experientially I've learnedthat a reliance on that kind of
(15:00):
thinking and yes, we doparticipate with the Lord, but a
reliance on that kind ofthinking, and yes, we do
participate with the Lord, but areliance on that kind of
thinking is what can get youinto a little bit of trouble.
And I really believe that theLord has invited me for the last
24 months or so to just bringme literally to the end of
myself, kind of like I've movedall the chess pieces.
(15:22):
I've done all the things andyet it still hasn't worked out.
There have been a couple ofthings in my life where I have
put in all the effort and itstill hasn't worked out.
But the Lord has allowed itbecause of something greater
that there is to work out, andthat is me.
That is me interior life, andthis is not reserved for Lisa
(15:45):
Canning, this is all of us.
He allows things to happenbecause there is something so
much greater that he is workingon and that is our ability to
trust him, our ability to bedocile, our ability to
understand that he is the onewho is truly in charge of
(16:09):
everything you know and that wecan trust him.
I mean, I could talk abouthonestly, I could go on for
hours and hours about this,because it's a bit of a mystery.
Meaning that I think cerebrally, I still want to think my way
out of everything and, again,that is not necessarily bad.
(16:31):
Meaning you still need toparticipate in your own life,
like we're not lemmings, right?
The Lord has given us free willand agency, so he's not just
like pressing, play on like atape and then I'm just operating
a little.
There's a participation therethat he has given me the
(16:51):
latitude, so to speak, toparticipate in.
Like there is a co-creation100%.
But at the same time I have tolearn with a lot of humility,
like a humility is sort of likea living breathing entity,
that's like a passengeralongside my trip.
You know, I have to learn witha lot of humility that every
(17:16):
breath I take, every opportunity, literally every time I have a
stage to speak on, it is onlybecause I have a loving father
and the Holy Spirit and thegrace that is present that truly
makes everything possible.
(17:50):
Career can be taken away realquick, like either by an injury
or by the economy or by someother circumstance.
Like your career can disappearin a moment it really can but
other things aren't going todisappear.
Your family isn't going todisappear, your life, the breath
in your lungs, but your careercan truthfully, in a moment, be
(18:10):
completely gone.
And so for anyone listeningthat has that same driven desire
to do really well, to make alot of money, to be excellent,
it's just by necessity.
We must remember that, just thenature that career especially
is not permanent.
(18:30):
It's just a very trust me whenI say learn it earlier than
later, because it can cause alot of unnecessary suffering.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
You have just brought out so many good points and I
just want to kind of highlight afew of the things you said.
One was basically kind of thedownside of being a high
achiever or someone who's drivento excel, which is that
temptation to think that it'seither all on us or all from us,
or we have these talents, wehave these abilities.
(19:04):
Therefore, we almost have thistemptation to say, okay, lord, I
got it from here, you know.
And then we want to take theball and run away and do it on
our own.
And I feel like if there werean easier way for us to learn
the difficult lesson that weneed to trust the Lord that he
would totally do it the easy way.
(19:25):
But because some people, myselfincluded we are the kind of
personality that's like no, Igot to learn this one the hard
way, and I've had thatexperience in my life too, where
it's almost like it wasnecessary that I got pushed to
the absolute end of what I couldhandle so that the Lord could
finally say look, but I got youand I am going to carry you, and
(19:48):
this is not all you.
And I think the book that you'rereferencing actually I think
it's Searching for andMaintaining Peace by Father
Jacques Philippe, because Iremember reading a passage in
that and you might talk about itin more than one book where he
talked about how watching thesuffering of others can
sometimes cause us to lose ourpeace, but definitely keeping
(20:09):
that, like you said, the30,000-foot perspective, that
long-range view of what's thepoint and St Paul would talk
about this and how athletestrain in every way for a
perishable crown, right, theydiscipline their bodies, they
discipline their diets.
They're training for this crownthat will perish, but we're
(20:32):
training for a crown thatdoesn't perish.
We're running for that othercrown that's really to become
the saints that we were createdto be, and that's why that's
part of the tagline of this show, because it recognizes that,
yeah, we want to be the city onthe hill, the light that's
giving light to everyone.
We want to shine forth in theworld and let people see the
(20:52):
good works that we're doing andthe excellence that we're doing
things with, because, if youthink about it, you're not going
to be attracted to someone whodoesn't seem to have their life
together.
Right, I'm just trying to thinkabout if you are, for instance,
out at the supermarket and yousee a mom with her kids and
she's like shouting at everyoneand she's frazzled and
(21:14):
everything's chaos you're notnecessarily thinking that is
someone I want to be like right.
But if you go to the supermarketand there's another woman who
has similarly lots of childrenrunning around asking her
questions and asking for thingsand I think I'm using this
example because I literally justgot back from grocery shopping
with all my kids before westarted recording this and
(21:37):
everyone was asking me forthings and talking to me and
trying to negotiate ourclipboard system and all of my
children want to have deepconversations with me while
we're shopping.
So it can be a little much totriage, but I was just kind of
trying to stay patient with themand talk with them and we're
kind of navigating the aisles ofthe supermarket and there was a
(21:58):
lady behind me in the checkoutline who was observing what my
interaction with my kids waslike and she was like, wow,
you're being really patient withthem and I'm like, oh, and in
my mind I'm like I'm justmomming.
This is just momming, you know,but at the same time I can
recognize, because you do see,the alternate version of that.
(22:23):
And this is just a silly littleexample, but the reason I think
about it is we recognize thatany patience I have, even to
deal with my kids with patience,that's because he started my
day with prayer and begged theLord to give me the patience
that I would need, knowing thatI was going to be with my kids
all day and I was going to haveto navigate situations with them
(22:45):
.
But we recognize, like Lisa wassaying, this is totally both.
This is our participation inthe work that the Lord has given
us to do Because, like you said, lisa, you wanted to curl up in
a little burrow and not do thework.
But you had to make a choice.
You had to choose to still keepshowing up and to keep doing
(23:06):
the work that the Lord had givenyou to do.
But we also recognize that eventhat good impulse to choose
comes from the Lord.
So we can't even like patourselves on the back too much.
We're like, oh, I made a reallygood choice.
But it's like, okay, all ofit's grace.
I don't remember which saintsaid that, but everything is
grace.
Maybe it was Saint Therese.
Everything is grace.
The talent, that's grace.
(23:27):
The ability to make a goodchoice, that's grace.
The circumstance, that's grace.
It's all grace.
But yeah, it is veryinteresting to think about
what's the point and why are westriving.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
And what's important to remember too.
Father Mike Schmitz did ahomily on this.
I think it was the second weekof Lent and I remember it so
distinctly because I listened tothe homily so many times,
because it articulated for mewhy I whine so much and I
encourage people to go listen toit if you struggle like I do.
He basically just said it'scompletely fine to ask why, Like
(24:04):
what's the point?
Why is this happening?
Why am I even bothering?
Why am I trying?
This is so hard, why are youdoing this to me, Lord?
He was like it's completelyfine to ask that question, as
long as you remember who andthat's the really like important
distinction If you believe thatour God is a good and loving
(24:28):
father, then this can all make alittle bit more sense.
It's for your benefit.
The same way that conversationwith my son I could have just
been like yeah, okay, don'tstudy for Latin.
Okay, whatever, no big deal.
He might then decide the nextexam he doesn't feel like
studying for.
(24:48):
He might decide to also notstudy for that one the next time
he decides in a situation likeit could be helpful to help
somebody out, but I'm actuallyreally not feeling like it.
So then he might think of thatas well.
Like the same way that I'mtrying to equip my children to
live good lives, Our father inheaven is doing the same, but
(25:09):
that ultimate destination isforever life with him and deep
intimacy with him, and so it'sjust so important to remember.
Like we can whine and complainabout the why, but the who is so
important to remember.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
Oh, absolutely.
And just thinking about thatdeep intimacy, that is really
what holiness is.
It is that deep intimacy withthe Lord, and I've often said
before that there's noexcellence that exceeds holiness
.
I mean, if we see the lives ofthe saints and how they lived,
that's when we're like, soinspired, because we see these
(25:49):
lives of excellence and we'relike, yep, that was an excellent
life, and so in each of ourvarious roles and capacities,
that's really the kind ofexcellence we're called to.
That's really the kind ofexcellence we're called to.
And if, in the attainment ofthat excellence, we also happen
to be successful in business, orbe excellent in sports, or be
(26:14):
excellent in parenting orwhatever it is that we're
striving for, that's almost theicing on the cake, and not so
much the cake itself, like thepoint of the whole thing.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
I'm very fascinated by the Opus Dei community
because you will often findpeople in Opus Dei are very
successful and I have found itto be just a curious thing to
dig into.
As I shared, I'm very, verycurious about people's
motivations and how they show upin the world, why they show up
(26:49):
the way they do, and Opus Dei isjust an interesting one to me.
When you sit in an Opus Deirecollection or a circle, you're
often looking around the roomand you're like and there's a
(27:09):
CEO and there's a CFO, andthere's a this and there's a
that, like it's often you'resurrounded by very high caliber
people and I think, because theyhave so built into the sort of
like anthropology of theirpractice, the Opus Dei community
just like really, really goodhabits, so like going to daily
mass, and they have likeapostolic work, like there's an
emphasis on are you journeyingwith people?
So I think the two canabsolutely go hand in hand.
(27:30):
But it actually will influencehow successful one can become
because you are trainingyourself in these habits that
are, like you talked about theperishable crown like you're
training yourself in the habitsthat will give you true long
term, if you will, excellence,like my spiritual director when
I whine and complain and bringhim the typical things I bring
(27:50):
him.
Why is life so hard, fatherDamien?
Constantly, I'm just constantlylike can I not just catch a
break like this?
I could literally sometimespress play on how my spiritual
direction goes, because it isoften just like little child
complaining.
I'm not trying to undermine orI'm not trying to dismiss my own
challenges, but it truly.
If you hit record on myspiritual direction, it's often
(28:10):
the same kind of theme and hewill be the first to be like all
right, how many times did youmake it to mass this week?
And I'll be like just Sunday,how many times did you do your
morning prayer time and yourexamination of conscience in the
evening?
And I'll be like yeah, maybeonce you know what I mean Like,
and he'll just be like well,there you go.
(28:31):
No wonder life is feelingreally hard.
You're not doing some of thethings that you know will help
you.
Yeah, the spiritual practices,jessica.
You know, for anyone listeningthat is like oh, but I have like
a bunch of kids Like I can't,there's no way.
I used to think like that too.
You know I've got 10 kids, 15to little baby.
I get it Like I'm very much inthe trenches of little children
(28:53):
and diapers and all the things.
I totally get it.
But I think developing thesespiritual practices is something
that you don't realize thebenefit of until you've done
them for a while.
Then you feel the absence andyou're like whoa, oops, whoa,
like I really miss this, andthen you get back into that
(29:14):
habit again.
But I remember when I was firstsort of examining my lifestyle
and trying to fit in more duringthe week, so rather than just
going to mass on Sunday, tryingto make it to the Adoration
Chapel, trying to make it todaily mass, praying the rosary
daily, like when I was trying toincorporate more of these
(29:35):
habits, I just remember beinglike there is absolutely no way
I have time for any of this.
But remarkably, you really dohave time.
You might not think you do, andcertainly if you're in a rural
area or what have you, theremight not be.
There may be some totallychallenging circumstances, but I
just would encourage you to getcurious about how could you
(29:56):
make it possible, and there areso many ways one can make it
possible.
I have so many random storieslike moms going with their
minivans and just parking in thechurch parking lot and so all
the kids are just in the carsand the air conditioned cars and
so moms take turns, likewatching all the kids in the
minivans They've got their TVson or whatever.
(30:17):
Or similarly, where I used tolive, the moms kind of band
together and all the moms andthe kids would be in one house
and then our parish priest wouldbe in the house across the
street and it was like aconfession morning and it was
actually the best you like gotto socialize and like have a
really nice time.
(30:38):
The kids all played together,people would bring snacks and it
was like a spread.
Oh my gosh, I actually feltlike gluttonous.
I was like I need to now goconfess gluttony because we're
here for this wonderfulsacrament.
But I feel like, but one shouldcelebrate when one is clean.
But my point is is that it mightat first glance seem
(31:00):
insurmountable.
There is no way I can take abunch of small kids to adoration
or figure out how to go tospiritual direction.
Like.
It might seem insurmountable inthe beginning, but get a little
creative, rely on help fromothers and make it a priority.
I'm sure this audience will notbe stranger to the concept of
(31:22):
what is in your calendar revealswhat is important to you.
So literally make it anappointment.
Make it literally your firstappointment of the day.
Kristalina Evert we had apodcast together not too long
ago and she was like it's thefirst meeting of my day.
The first meeting of my day ismy CEO, which is the Lord, and
(31:43):
so she was referencing gettingto daily mass at nine o'clock or
whatever, like literally one ofthe first appointments of the
day.
And so just again,encouragement that there might
be a way that it makes sense andit just might take some
creative thinking.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
Yeah, and I love how infinitely creative the Lord is
when you bring to him somethingand you just say, lord, I love
you.
You know I love you.
How do you want me to spendtime with you this week, and can
you show me how to make thiswork?
Because I don't see it andyou'd be amazed.
Sometimes those ideas will justcome into your mind or you
(32:20):
might envision yourself doingsomething in a way you've never
done it before, but it's justvery clear in your mind that
this is how you could do it.
And I'm reminded of something aFranciscan friar wrote in a book
.
It's called Habits for Holinessand he talks about the
creativity of love and how wecan get creative and then we can
find ways to be with our lovedone when we are creative.
(32:41):
And then another thing he talksabout in that book that I was
thinking about just now whileyou were speaking is what he
calls the efficiency of holiness, which I love, because think
about how much time we waste insin, think about how much time
we waste in self-reliance or inworry or preoccupation with the
(33:02):
past or the future or all ofthese things, and it's like man,
how efficient is it to be holy?
So if we actually made it ourfirst priority that number one
on my to-do list is be a saint,become holy then everything else
not only falls into place as itshould, but it actually can
(33:24):
happen better and easier andfaster.
And I think it's that originaltemptation of the devil that
tells us did God really say youhave to spend all your time
praying and you can never doanything else?
And it's like a twisting ofwhat the truth is, which is God
did invite us to pray always,but not necessarily in a chapel
(33:48):
if we're not able to be atchurch all the time, but in our
lives and in what we're doing.
And it's like that originaltemptation, which was the lie
that God had something good buthe was holding it back from us,
whereas when we understand whoour God is and how much he loves
(34:08):
us, we see, yeah, he hassomething good for you and he
wants to give it to you so badly, but your hands are so clenched
tight on something else thatyou need to open up the grasp of
your fingers and let himactually pour out what he wants
to give you.
That's really what I'm thinkingwhen I think detachment from
(34:28):
outcomes, because we cling andwe grasp and we hold and we
strive and we're so intent.
But what if we could bothstrive for excellence, strive
for holiness, with open, loosehands and enjoy the process,
because the process is all wegot really.
We'll reach one goal and shootfor another, so we just keep
moving forward, and I think thatthat's where we can really
(34:52):
strive for excellence in a veryCatholic way.
Speaker 2 (34:56):
And it can be enjoyable.
It certainly has moments whereit's not enjoyable, but even in
the moments where it's difficult, I believe that we can praise
him for what is happening.
And my very favorite hymn mychildren, they all give each
other like a knowing kind oflike look when this hymn comes
(35:16):
on in mass, because they'll alljust be like, get ready.
It's like three lines and mom'sgoing to be crying, but it's so
praising, and there's severallines, but it's the third verse
and where, like, I will triumphthrough my sorrows and rise to
bless you, still, to marvel atyour beauty and glory in your
ways, and make a joyful duty, mysacrifice of praise, something
(35:39):
like that.
I might've missed a couple ofwords there, but even when it's
hard, I will sing your praise,Lord, I will glorify your name
and yes, it's a choice, JessicaLike, yeah, we have a choice to
do that, but in a way and I meanthat's not in a bad way Like in
a way it's also just obedient.
I think the faster one canrecognize that life is not going
(36:03):
to be easy but that's not badyou know, business is not going
to be easy, but that's not bad.
I think the faster one canrecognize and realize and just
accept that as reality.
Many things can then be madeavailable.
This intimacy with the Lordthat we've been talking about
requires a little bit of livingin reality and acceptance of
(36:25):
these truths, you know.
So you can complain and ask thequestions why.
But as long as we come back tothe who, we're in good shape.
Speaker 1 (36:35):
Absolutely, Lisa.
This has been so good.
You've shared so much wisdom.
I'm so grateful for your time.
Speaker 2 (36:47):
Where can everyone find out more about you and the
work that you do?
At Lisa Canning on Instagram isprobably where, if you're
interested in life with 10children and what it looks like,
I do share every Monday.
I do a day in the life ofnavigating many different things
.
I run a coaching business whereI help Catholic moms
specifically understand theseconcepts of business and my
(37:10):
Wealth Without Guilt community.
I will galvanize you and cheeryou on, but also give you the
very specific enablement to takethose next steps one step at a
time, and so I invite you tolearn about the work I'm doing
over there.
My husband and I have somethingthat we do together called
Persevere Together, where wesupport Catholics who have
(37:33):
mental illness present as achallenge in their marriage, and
so you can, on my Instagram,get a link over there.
And then, finally, I am veryhonored to serve the charity,
the Guiding Star Project, wherewe have a vision for the future,
where no women fear pregnancy.
And again, just this uniquecombination of things in my life
is what has given me.
(37:55):
The words that are coming outof my mouth today, like the
unique things that the Lord hasallowed, the opportunities that
he has given me, is what hasfueled a lot of the words, a lot
of the wisdom, a lot of theexperience, and it's meant to be
shared.
I think that's just one finalthing I'd love to just sort of
(38:15):
end on is that we are not meantto do life alone, like we're not
meant to do the suffering andthe struggle alone, like we're
not meant to do the sufferingand the struggle alone.
And so just the encouragement toaccompany people I think
there's a lot out there onrecognize when life is hard and
reach out and bring dinner tosomebody.
Sure, that's all very importantand I'm not trying to belittle
(38:37):
that, but I'm also on the flipside of that is the active part
of accompanying others.
So, meaning, where can you beon the lookout and have
conversations with people tohelp them process what the Lord
is doing in their life?
Take a conversation that maybe,when the playground after
(39:05):
school pickup is, the temptationmight be to keep it very
surface level, but with oneadditional question, you're
helping somebody process andbecome more aware of what the
Lord is doing.
And this whole notion, again,of surrender, of detachment and
of understanding what the pointis of our lives.
And so just maybe a littlechallenge for your listeners
today.
How can you be on the lookoutfor how you can journey with
(39:31):
somebody and make this moreclear to them?
Speaker 1 (39:35):
That is so good and so great.
So, yeah, that's our challengeand we'll be focusing on that.
Thank you again, lisa, forbeing here, so grateful for your
time, and I will drop links towhere you can find and connect
with Lisa in the show notes soyou can find Lisa that way.
Speaker 2 (39:51):
Grateful for you, Jessica.
You're listening to the Catholic Pursuit of
Excellence, the show that helpsyou accomplish more, stress less
and become the saint Godcreated you to be.
I'm your host, life and healthcoach, jessica Castillo, and I
am joined today by none otherthan the possibility mom herself
, lisa Canning.
(00:23):
Lisa, welcome to the show.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
I'm so happy to be here.
I love your new podcast.
It makes me very, very, veryhappy to hear it.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
Thank you.
I'm pretty excited about itmyself.
So one of the really coolthings about this show is we get
to explore what it means to, asa Catholic, really strive for
and pursue excellence, and Ithink that it's so important
that we have a show like thisthat is from a very Catholic
(00:55):
perspective, because the way theworld pursues excellence and
the way we are called to pursueexcellence as Catholics can
sometimes look very different.
However, we all know when wesee Catholics in the public
space who are really excellentat whatever they do whether it
is like a sports star or even acoach or a musician or an actor
(01:20):
or an actress and we recognizeexcellence, we see this person
is doing exceptionally atwhatever it is that they're
doing, and it might not haveanything to do with the Catholic
church or evangelizationdirectly, but they're excellent
at what they do and thatattracts people.
I think that excellence attractspeople.
However, I think sometimes wecan get really confused about
(01:46):
what does it mean to strive forand pursue this excellence
without getting completelywrapped up in outcomes and to be
very graspy and clingy about it, and I have learned so much
about this particular conceptfrom none other than Lisa
Canning, so I thought she wouldbe the perfect person to have on
(02:08):
the show to talk about.
What does that look like?
What does it feel like toreally and truly be detached
from outcomes while striving tobe your best?
Speaker 2 (02:29):
striving to be your best.
I mean I wish I was not anexpert in this.
I mean I say that kind ofplayfully, but I've had some
unique experiences that have,just through the school of hard
knocks, taught me what it lookslike to detach from the outcome.
I think it's interesting.
I grew up in an industry so Igot my start in television and
then I went into high-endinterior design because my start
(02:49):
in television was on an HGTVshow and a lot of the people I
surrounded myself with werereally really great people but
very concerned with I guesscompetition is the easiest way
to put it.
Like my observation of a lot ofmy colleagues was that they
were always chasing the bestproject, or the cover of the
(03:13):
magazine, or the this, the thatOkay, now I need the best
project in another country.
There was always this pursuitof something more Same thing in
television.
Like there was always a bettershow to be on a better time slot
.
And of course, when you'rearound people like I'm very
(03:35):
fascinated by what influencesour motivations, right,
obviously we're motivated or welearn that something is true
from our parents, from ourfamily of origin, there are
certain concepts that becomethen ingrained in us and we
believe our truth, whetherthey're actually true or not, we
believe that they're true.
Right, and similarly,especially in the very beginning
(03:56):
of your career, one can just belike well, this is obviously
what makes sense.
This is obviously what I muststrive for, and so I developed
lots and lots and lots of habitsthat were really challenging to
unlearn or to soften.
And that's the thing I thinkyou're hitting on is that how do
you pursue excellence?
So how do you do something, bethe best at something, or do
(04:20):
something to the best of yourabilities?
And it's interesting.
I've gotten a lot of value fromdigging into my M-code
assessment.
M-code is a assessment thatlooks at your unique motivations
, developed by Dr Josh Millerand his family at the Franciscan
University of Jubinville, andone of my top motivators is to
(04:45):
excel.
I'm pretty sure it's yours aswell, right?
Yeah, I am very motivated bybeing the best at whatever it is
, and so there is thisinteresting tension that exists
between the performance.
I think there's some integritythere as well, like meaning just
doing something at yourabsolute best because you value
(05:05):
doing something well, but then adetachment that when you have
done that so you have treated itwith integrity, like it's funny
.
I'll just give a quick.
I'm a mom of 10, my oldest is15 and he just did, for the very
first time, exams in a highschool setting.
And he was like, mom, I'm justlike not even going to study for
(05:26):
my Latin exam.
And I was like that's aninteresting suggestion.
I was like that's veryinteresting.
That is one way that you couldproceed about your Latin exam.
And so I kind of prodded him alittle.
I was like, well, why wouldn'tyou study?
Oh well, I just really don'tcare about it.
And like I'll probably get agood grade anyway, like whatever
, right.
(05:46):
And I was like, okay, that'slike a decision you can make.
So, yeah, if you feel like youactually are adept enough to do
this well, without studying,sure, but I really challenged
him.
I was like but I really wantyou to examine and consider is
this how you would approach thiswith high integrity?
It might be and it might not be, but I really want you to
(06:08):
examine it.
And then at the end of the 20minute conversation he was like
yeah, okay, maybe I'm being lazyand I really should just study.
And I was like all right, veryintrigued by how people justify
behavior.
I do it all the time, you know,like all the time, but I've had
(06:29):
to become aware of where am Ijustifying things?
Anyways, that's a whole other,just pet project I'm currently
working on.
Where in my life am I noticingthat I'm justifying or excusing
perhaps not the most virtuous ofbehavior, and where can I
increase that?
So yeah, basically, that's itis.
How can you pursue somethingwith excellence but then be okay
(06:51):
when it doesn't work out?
Speaker 1 (06:53):
Yeah, and I think it's really interesting where
you're talking about in that inyour background, with HDTV and
interior design and justbringing that into your current
business and into your, youmight've had some of these
habits where it is almost like arefusal to be content with
(07:14):
where you are and what you haveaccomplished.
You can only seek for the nextlevel and push forward, and I do
think that that's a very bigdistinction, not just the
detachment from outcomes, notjust I am going to pursue this
goal, I'm going to do my best,I'm going to strive, I'm going
to and I think we all recognizewhat that feels like when we are
(07:37):
at the absolute edge of ourcapabilities and it feels kind
of awesome because we arepushing, we are stretching, we
are growing, we're becoming thatbetter version of ourselves,
that saint version of ourselves.
Honestly, if we're doing it withvirtue and it feels good to be
pushing ourselves in that way, Ithink the shadow side of it is
(08:02):
when we refuse to also begrateful for the process itself
and to recognize actually it'sin the pursuit that I can be
grateful, because it feels goodto be doing this work, to be
doing honorable work.
Whatever it is, your honorablework could be digging a ditch as
(08:23):
well as you can dig that ditch.
But when you are pushingyourself and you are toiling at
work because work is honorable,work is a gift from God when
you're toiling in that way, withvirtue, with honor, it doesn't
matter how big the ditch is orhow deep the hole is, or how
it's the best ditch thatanyone's ever dug in the whole
(08:43):
history of ditch digging thehole is, or how it's the best
ditch that anyone's ever dug inthe whole history of ditch
digging.
What matters is you gave ityour all and did your best, and
that in itself is an honor,because if the Lord of the
universe hands you a task to dowhich is basically every task we
have when we show up to it anddo it well, it's honorable to
serve the Lord in that way.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
You know it's the process that you're talking
about where I have had to growsignificantly in the last few
years.
I've shared publicly on mypodcast a couple big business
sad bears experiences, and justone notable one was I hosted a
really big summit.
I wanna say this is like August2021, I want to say so a couple
(09:27):
of years ago from time ofrecording and my previous summit
.
So we're talking like in thepandemic, when everyone was home
and had nothing else to do butwatch these online summits over
and over again.
All my previous summits hadbeen in the multi-value figures,
like they were very successfulsummits.
(09:47):
And then I hosted this one inAugust and I remember just being
like check, check, check.
I've checked all the boxes.
I did that thing with fullintegrity, like it was done
excellently and the financialoutcome did not happen at all,
like not even a little bit atall.
And I remember I know you'llappreciate this I was counting
(10:10):
conversions on Sunday, masssitting in the pew during mass
counting, calculating theconversion that based on I knew
I was going to get the mostsales Sunday.
Typically there's a last chancekind of thing that would happen
on the Sunday night, so I knewI was going to get the most
sales.
Sunday Typically there's a lastchance kind of thing that would
happen on the Sunday night.
So I knew more would come.
But you knew you had anindication, based on
(10:32):
registrations and all that kindof thing, what your likely
outcome was going to be in theevening.
And I just remember sittingthere in mass, literally like
calculator in my head, andrealizing that it was not going
to be the financial payout thatI was hoping for.
That's just one example.
I have lived a lot of life inthe last 24 months that have
(10:56):
also shown me that it's so muchmore about the process.
And here's the thing when werealize what the ultimate goal
is in life, truly like when youpull back the camera greater to
30,000 feet and you're lookingat truly just what is the actual
(11:16):
point?
The actual point is the process.
Actual point is what ishappening to prepare ourselves
for our ultimate destination.
And even as I'm saying itliterally, there's a voice in my
head, jessica, that is sayingyeah, yeah, yeah.
Literally there's a voice in myhead that goes yeah, yeah, yeah
(11:38):
, yeah, yeah.
But you still want to be thebest and you still want to do
the thing.
But it's been very muchimpressed upon me.
Just some unique things havehappened.
I had a miscarriage in the lasttwo years.
We moved internationally in thelast two years.
I wouldn't say that I was allthat excited to move from where
I was.
We could not find housing inthe new spot that we landed.
(12:00):
We lived in 10 homes in 10months while I was pregnant with
baby number 10.
I will chuckle with God abouthow poetic he is in his use of
the number 10 in my life, but itwas a process like talk about a
process, and I was the solebreadwinner for much of that
period and so I couldn't exactlyjust like crawl into a hole and
(12:22):
cry Although, to be frank, fora lot of the last 24 months that
was my inclination.
I just wanted to take like allmy kids and my husband and just
sort of like nuzzle in a littleburrow, a little hole, and just
be happy and cozy and not worryabout the outside world and
definitely not show up on theinternet.
But I couldn't do that becausewe had bills to pay and we had
(12:45):
children to educate and clientsto serve and obligations and all
the things, and so I had tolearn what it looks like to be
excellent or to just pursuethings with excellence.
Do your best to pursue thingswith excellence when you really
just want to hide and cry and besad.
(13:07):
And that was just the veryvaluable learning lesson over
this last season of my life.
I'll call it in understandingthat it truly is about the
process, my husband.
There have been somesignificant trials, trials that
I share publicly and I'm happyto share publicly, some
significant trials, trials thatI share publicly and I'm happy
to share publicly.
But then trials that I willnever share publicly and are
(13:27):
just for the privacy of myself,my husband and the Lord.
And we just went throughsomething that is on the more
private end.
And my husband brought this bookto me.
It was interesting.
It's a Father Jacques Philippebook and, forgive me, the title
is escaping me, but it's a newerone and it had a question in it
.
Reflect for a moment on peoplewho you have observed have
(13:50):
suffered a lot, but theirsuffering has actually brought
them closer to the Lord.
And he was like Lisa, that'syou Like, as he was reading it
himself.
He was like I have watched youbecome absolutely reliant on the
Lord and I think that's thedanger.
I guess I'll call it, for lackof better word right now.
(14:13):
But the danger that can comewhen you're a high achiever and
you're used to, is you can justsimply think that you can do
everything on your own by yourefforts, by your skills, by your
talents.
And I'll be honest, I stillfind this a little confusing,
jessica, because it is my skillsand talents, like it is, I
(14:36):
participate in that.
Like I'm the one who gets upand exercises, I'm the one who
gets up and makes nice meals formy family.
Like I'm the one who gets upand exercises, I'm the one who
gets up and makes nice meals formy family.
Like it is me I'm making thechoice to do it.
So it does confuse me stillsometimes, if I'm being really
honest.
But experientially I've learnedthat a reliance on that kind of
(15:00):
thinking and yes, we doparticipate with the Lord, but a
reliance on that kind ofthinking, and yes, we do
participate with the Lord, but areliance on that kind of
thinking is what can get youinto a little bit of trouble.
And I really believe that theLord has invited me for the last
24 months or so to just bringme literally to the end of
myself, kind of like I've movedall the chess pieces.
(15:22):
I've done all the things andyet it still hasn't worked out.
There have been a couple ofthings in my life where I have
put in all the effort and itstill hasn't worked out.
But the Lord has allowed itbecause of something greater
that there is to work out, andthat is me.
That is me interior life, andthis is not reserved for Lisa
(15:45):
Canning, this is all of us.
He allows things to happenbecause there is something so
much greater that he is workingon and that is our ability to
trust him, our ability to bedocile, our ability to
understand that he is the onewho is truly in charge of
(16:09):
everything you know and that wecan trust him.
I mean, I could talk abouthonestly, I could go on for
hours and hours about this,because it's a bit of a mystery.
Meaning that I think cerebrally, I still want to think my way
out of everything and, again,that is not necessarily bad.
(16:31):
Meaning you still need toparticipate in your own life,
like we're not lemmings, right?
The Lord has given us free willand agency, so he's not just
like pressing, play on like atape and then I'm just operating
a little.
There's a participation therethat he has given me the
(16:51):
latitude, so to speak, toparticipate in.
Like there is a co-creation100%.
But at the same time I have tolearn with a lot of humility,
like a humility is sort of likea living breathing entity,
that's like a passengeralongside my trip.
You know, I have to learn witha lot of humility that every
(17:16):
breath I take, every opportunity, literally every time I have a
stage to speak on, it is onlybecause I have a loving father
and the Holy Spirit and thegrace that is present that truly
makes everything possible.
(17:50):
Career can be taken away realquick, like either by an injury
or by the economy or by someother circumstance.
Like your career can disappearin a moment it really can but
other things aren't going todisappear.
Your family isn't going todisappear, your life, the breath
in your lungs, but your careercan truthfully, in a moment, be
(18:10):
completely gone.
And so for anyone listeningthat has that same driven desire
to do really well, to make alot of money, to be excellent,
it's just by necessity.
We must remember that, just thenature that career especially
is not permanent.
(18:30):
It's just a very trust me whenI say learn it earlier than
later, because it can cause alot of unnecessary suffering.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
You have just brought out so many good points and I
just want to kind of highlight afew of the things you said.
One was basically kind of thedownside of being a high
achiever or someone who's drivento excel, which is that
temptation to think that it'seither all on us or all from us,
or we have these talents, wehave these abilities.
(19:04):
Therefore, we almost have thistemptation to say, okay, lord, I
got it from here, you know.
And then we want to take theball and run away and do it on
our own.
And I feel like if there werean easier way for us to learn
the difficult lesson that weneed to trust the Lord that he
would totally do it the easy way.
(19:25):
But because some people, myselfincluded we are the kind of
personality that's like no, Igot to learn this one the hard
way, and I've had thatexperience in my life too, where
it's almost like it wasnecessary that I got pushed to
the absolute end of what I couldhandle so that the Lord could
finally say look, but I got youand I am going to carry you, and
(19:48):
this is not all you.
And I think the book that you'rereferencing actually I think
it's Searching for andMaintaining Peace by Father
Jacques Philippe, because Iremember reading a passage in
that and you might talk about itin more than one book where he
talked about how watching thesuffering of others can
sometimes cause us to lose ourpeace, but definitely keeping
(20:09):
that, like you said, the30,000-foot perspective, that
long-range view of what's thepoint and St Paul would talk
about this and how athletestrain in every way for a
perishable crown, right, theydiscipline their bodies, they
discipline their diets.
They're training for this crownthat will perish, but we're
(20:32):
training for a crown thatdoesn't perish.
We're running for that othercrown that's really to become
the saints that we were createdto be, and that's why that's
part of the tagline of this show, because it recognizes that,
yeah, we want to be the city onthe hill, the light that's
giving light to everyone.
We want to shine forth in theworld and let people see the
(20:52):
good works that we're doing andthe excellence that we're doing
things with, because, if youthink about it, you're not going
to be attracted to someone whodoesn't seem to have their life
together.
Right, I'm just trying to thinkabout if you are, for instance,
out at the supermarket and yousee a mom with her kids and
she's like shouting at everyoneand she's frazzled and
(21:14):
everything's chaos you're notnecessarily thinking that is
someone I want to be like right.
But if you go to the supermarketand there's another woman who
has similarly lots of childrenrunning around asking her
questions and asking for thingsand I think I'm using this
example because I literally justgot back from grocery shopping
with all my kids before westarted recording this and
(21:37):
everyone was asking me forthings and talking to me and
trying to negotiate ourclipboard system and all of my
children want to have deepconversations with me while
we're shopping.
So it can be a little much totriage, but I was just kind of
trying to stay patient with themand talk with them and we're
kind of navigating the aisles ofthe supermarket and there was a
(21:58):
lady behind me in the checkoutline who was observing what my
interaction with my kids waslike and she was like, wow,
you're being really patient withthem and I'm like, oh, and in
my mind I'm like I'm justmomming.
This is just momming, you know,but at the same time I can
recognize, because you do see,the alternate version of that.
(22:23):
And this is just a silly littleexample, but the reason I think
about it is we recognize thatany patience I have, even to
deal with my kids with patience,that's because he started my
day with prayer and begged theLord to give me the patience
that I would need, knowing thatI was going to be with my kids
all day and I was going to haveto navigate situations with them
(22:45):
.
But we recognize, like Lisa wassaying, this is totally both.
This is our participation inthe work that the Lord has given
us to do Because, like you said, lisa, you wanted to curl up in
a little burrow and not do thework.
But you had to make a choice.
You had to choose to still keepshowing up and to keep doing
(23:06):
the work that the Lord had givenyou to do.
But we also recognize that eventhat good impulse to choose
comes from the Lord.
So we can't even like patourselves on the back too much.
We're like, oh, I made a reallygood choice.
But it's like, okay, all ofit's grace.
I don't remember which saintsaid that, but everything is
grace.
Maybe it was Saint Therese.
Everything is grace.
The talent, that's grace.
(23:27):
The ability to make a goodchoice, that's grace.
The circumstance, that's grace.
It's all grace.
But yeah, it is veryinteresting to think about
what's the point and why are westriving.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
And what's important to remember too.
Father Mike Schmitz did ahomily on this.
I think it was the second weekof Lent and I remember it so
distinctly because I listened tothe homily so many times,
because it articulated for mewhy I whine so much and I
encourage people to go listen toit if you struggle like I do.
He basically just said it'scompletely fine to ask why, Like
(24:04):
what's the point?
Why is this happening?
Why am I even bothering?
Why am I trying?
This is so hard, why are youdoing this to me, Lord?
He was like it's completelyfine to ask that question, as
long as you remember who andthat's the really like important
distinction If you believe thatour God is a good and loving
(24:28):
father, then this can all make alittle bit more sense.
It's for your benefit.
The same way that conversationwith my son I could have just
been like yeah, okay, don'tstudy for Latin.
Okay, whatever, no big deal.
He might then decide the nextexam he doesn't feel like
studying for.
(24:48):
He might decide to also notstudy for that one the next time
he decides in a situation likeit could be helpful to help
somebody out, but I'm actuallyreally not feeling like it.
So then he might think of thatas well.
Like the same way that I'mtrying to equip my children to
live good lives, Our father inheaven is doing the same, but
(25:09):
that ultimate destination isforever life with him and deep
intimacy with him, and so it'sjust so important to remember.
Like we can whine and complainabout the why, but the who is so
important to remember.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
Oh, absolutely.
And just thinking about thatdeep intimacy, that is really
what holiness is.
It is that deep intimacy withthe Lord, and I've often said
before that there's noexcellence that exceeds holiness
.
I mean, if we see the lives ofthe saints and how they lived,
that's when we're like, soinspired, because we see these
(25:49):
lives of excellence and we'relike, yep, that was an excellent
life, and so in each of ourvarious roles and capacities,
that's really the kind ofexcellence we're called to.
That's really the kind ofexcellence we're called to.
And if, in the attainment ofthat excellence, we also happen
to be successful in business, orbe excellent in sports, or be
(26:14):
excellent in parenting orwhatever it is that we're
striving for, that's almost theicing on the cake, and not so
much the cake itself, like thepoint of the whole thing.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
I'm very fascinated by the Opus Dei community
because you will often findpeople in Opus Dei are very
successful and I have found itto be just a curious thing to
dig into.
As I shared, I'm very, verycurious about people's
motivations and how they show upin the world, why they show up
(26:49):
the way they do, and Opus Dei isjust an interesting one to me.
When you sit in an Opus Deirecollection or a circle, you're
often looking around the roomand you're like and there's a
(27:09):
CEO and there's a CFO, andthere's a this and there's a
that, like it's often you'resurrounded by very high caliber
people and I think, because theyhave so built into the sort of
like anthropology of theirpractice, the Opus Dei community
just like really, really goodhabits, so like going to daily
mass, and they have likeapostolic work, like there's an
emphasis on are you journeyingwith people?
So I think the two canabsolutely go hand in hand.
(27:30):
But it actually will influencehow successful one can become
because you are trainingyourself in these habits that
are, like you talked about theperishable crown like you're
training yourself in the habitsthat will give you true long
term, if you will, excellence,like my spiritual director when
I whine and complain and bringhim the typical things I bring
(27:50):
him.
Why is life so hard, fatherDamien?
Constantly, I'm just constantlylike can I not just catch a
break like this?
I could literally sometimespress play on how my spiritual
direction goes, because it isoften just like little child
complaining.
I'm not trying to undermine orI'm not trying to dismiss my own
challenges, but it truly.
If you hit record on myspiritual direction, it's often
(28:10):
the same kind of theme and hewill be the first to be like all
right, how many times did youmake it to mass this week?
And I'll be like just Sunday,how many times did you do your
morning prayer time and yourexamination of conscience in the
evening?
And I'll be like yeah, maybeonce you know what I mean Like,
and he'll just be like well,there you go.
(28:31):
No wonder life is feelingreally hard.
You're not doing some of thethings that you know will help
you.
Yeah, the spiritual practices,jessica.
You know, for anyone listeningthat is like oh, but I have like
a bunch of kids Like I can't,there's no way.
I used to think like that too.
You know I've got 10 kids, 15to little baby.
I get it Like I'm very much inthe trenches of little children
(28:53):
and diapers and all the things.
I totally get it.
But I think developing thesespiritual practices is something
that you don't realize thebenefit of until you've done
them for a while.
Then you feel the absence andyou're like whoa, oops, whoa,
like I really miss this, andthen you get back into that
(29:14):
habit again.
But I remember when I was firstsort of examining my lifestyle
and trying to fit in more duringthe week, so rather than just
going to mass on Sunday, tryingto make it to the Adoration
Chapel, trying to make it todaily mass, praying the rosary
daily, like when I was trying toincorporate more of these
(29:35):
habits, I just remember beinglike there is absolutely no way
I have time for any of this.
But remarkably, you really dohave time.
You might not think you do, andcertainly if you're in a rural
area or what have you, theremight not be.
There may be some totallychallenging circumstances, but I
just would encourage you to getcurious about how could you
(29:56):
make it possible, and there areso many ways one can make it
possible.
I have so many random storieslike moms going with their
minivans and just parking in thechurch parking lot and so all
the kids are just in the carsand the air conditioned cars and
so moms take turns, likewatching all the kids in the
minivans They've got their TVson or whatever.
(30:17):
Or similarly, where I used tolive, the moms kind of band
together and all the moms andthe kids would be in one house
and then our parish priest wouldbe in the house across the
street and it was like aconfession morning and it was
actually the best you like gotto socialize and like have a
really nice time.
(30:38):
The kids all played together,people would bring snacks and it
was like a spread.
Oh my gosh, I actually feltlike gluttonous.
I was like I need to now goconfess gluttony because we're
here for this wonderfulsacrament.
But I feel like, but one shouldcelebrate when one is clean.
But my point is is that it mightat first glance seem
(31:00):
insurmountable.
There is no way I can take abunch of small kids to adoration
or figure out how to go tospiritual direction.
Like.
It might seem insurmountable inthe beginning, but get a little
creative, rely on help fromothers and make it a priority.
I'm sure this audience will notbe stranger to the concept of
(31:22):
what is in your calendar revealswhat is important to you.
So literally make it anappointment.
Make it literally your firstappointment of the day.
Kristalina Evert we had apodcast together not too long
ago and she was like it's thefirst meeting of my day.
The first meeting of my day ismy CEO, which is the Lord, and
(31:43):
so she was referencing gettingto daily mass at nine o'clock or
whatever, like literally one ofthe first appointments of the
day.
And so just again,encouragement that there might
be a way that it makes sense andit just might take some
creative thinking.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
Yeah, and I love how infinitely creative the Lord is
when you bring to him somethingand you just say, lord, I love
you.
You know I love you.
How do you want me to spendtime with you this week, and can
you show me how to make thiswork?
Because I don't see it andyou'd be amazed.
Sometimes those ideas will justcome into your mind or you
(32:20):
might envision yourself doingsomething in a way you've never
done it before, but it's justvery clear in your mind that
this is how you could do it.
And I'm reminded of something aFranciscan friar wrote in a book
.
It's called Habits for Holinessand he talks about the
creativity of love and how wecan get creative and then we can
find ways to be with our lovedone when we are creative.
(32:41):
And then another thing he talksabout in that book that I was
thinking about just now whileyou were speaking is what he
calls the efficiency of holiness, which I love, because think
about how much time we waste insin, think about how much time
we waste in self-reliance or inworry or preoccupation with the
(33:02):
past or the future or all ofthese things, and it's like man,
how efficient is it to be holy?
So if we actually made it ourfirst priority that number one
on my to-do list is be a saint,become holy then everything else
not only falls into place as itshould, but it actually can
(33:24):
happen better and easier andfaster.
And I think it's that originaltemptation of the devil that
tells us did God really say youhave to spend all your time
praying and you can never doanything else?
And it's like a twisting ofwhat the truth is, which is God
did invite us to pray always,but not necessarily in a chapel
(33:48):
if we're not able to be atchurch all the time, but in our
lives and in what we're doing.
And it's like that originaltemptation, which was the lie
that God had something good buthe was holding it back from us,
whereas when we understand whoour God is and how much he loves
(34:08):
us, we see, yeah, he hassomething good for you and he
wants to give it to you so badly, but your hands are so clenched
tight on something else thatyou need to open up the grasp of
your fingers and let himactually pour out what he wants
to give you.
That's really what I'm thinkingwhen I think detachment from
(34:28):
outcomes, because we cling andwe grasp and we hold and we
strive and we're so intent.
But what if we could bothstrive for excellence, strive
for holiness, with open, loosehands and enjoy the process,
because the process is all wegot really.
We'll reach one goal and shootfor another, so we just keep
moving forward, and I think thatthat's where we can really
(34:52):
strive for excellence in a veryCatholic way.
Speaker 2 (34:56):
And it can be enjoyable.
It certainly has moments whereit's not enjoyable, but even in
the moments where it's difficult, I believe that we can praise
him for what is happening.
And my very favorite hymn mychildren, they all give each
other like a knowing kind oflike look when this hymn comes
(35:16):
on in mass, because they'll alljust be like, get ready.
It's like three lines and mom'sgoing to be crying, but it's so
praising, and there's severallines, but it's the third verse
and where, like, I will triumphthrough my sorrows and rise to
bless you, still, to marvel atyour beauty and glory in your
ways, and make a joyful duty, mysacrifice of praise, something
(35:39):
like that.
I might've missed a couple ofwords there, but even when it's
hard, I will sing your praise,Lord, I will glorify your name
and yes, it's a choice, JessicaLike, yeah, we have a choice to
do that, but in a way and I meanthat's not in a bad way Like in
a way it's also just obedient.
I think the faster one canrecognize that life is not going
(36:03):
to be easy but that's not badyou know, business is not going
to be easy, but that's not bad.
I think the faster one canrecognize and realize and just
accept that as reality.
Many things can then be madeavailable.
This intimacy with the Lordthat we've been talking about
requires a little bit of livingin reality and acceptance of
(36:25):
these truths, you know.
So you can complain and ask thequestions why.
But as long as we come back tothe who, we're in good shape.
Speaker 1 (36:35):
Absolutely, Lisa.
This has been so good.
You've shared so much wisdom.
I'm so grateful for your time.
Speaker 2 (36:47):
Where can everyone find out more about you and the
work that you do?
At Lisa Canning on Instagram isprobably where, if you're
interested in life with 10children and what it looks like,
I do share every Monday.
I do a day in the life ofnavigating many different things
.
I run a coaching business whereI help Catholic moms
specifically understand theseconcepts of business and my
(37:10):
Wealth Without Guilt community.
I will galvanize you and cheeryou on, but also give you the
very specific enablement to takethose next steps one step at a
time, and so I invite you tolearn about the work I'm doing
over there.
My husband and I have somethingthat we do together called
Persevere Together, where wesupport Catholics who have
(37:33):
mental illness present as achallenge in their marriage, and
so you can, on my Instagram,get a link over there.
And then, finally, I am veryhonored to serve the charity,
the Guiding Star Project, wherewe have a vision for the future,
where no women fear pregnancy.
And again, just this uniquecombination of things in my life
is what has given me.
(37:55):
The words that are coming outof my mouth today, like the
unique things that the Lord hasallowed, the opportunities that
he has given me, is what hasfueled a lot of the words, a lot
of the wisdom, a lot of theexperience, and it's meant to be
shared.
I think that's just one finalthing I'd love to just sort of
(38:15):
end on is that we are not meantto do life alone, like we're not
meant to do the suffering andthe struggle alone, like we're
not meant to do the sufferingand the struggle alone.
And so just the encouragement toaccompany people I think
there's a lot out there onrecognize when life is hard and
reach out and bring dinner tosomebody.
Sure, that's all very importantand I'm not trying to belittle
(38:37):
that, but I'm also on the flipside of that is the active part
of accompanying others.
So, meaning, where can you beon the lookout and have
conversations with people tohelp them process what the Lord
is doing in their life?
Take a conversation that maybe,when the playground after
(39:05):
school pickup is, the temptationmight be to keep it very
surface level, but with oneadditional question, you're
helping somebody process andbecome more aware of what the
Lord is doing.
And this whole notion, again,of surrender, of detachment and
of understanding what the pointis of our lives.
And so just maybe a littlechallenge for your listeners
today.
How can you be on the lookoutfor how you can journey with
(39:31):
somebody and make this moreclear to them?
Speaker 1 (39:35):
That is so good and so great.
So, yeah, that's our challengeand we'll be focusing on that.
Thank you again, lisa, forbeing here, so grateful for your
time, and I will drop links towhere you can find and connect
with Lisa in the show notes soyou can find Lisa that way.
Speaker 2 (39:51):
Grateful for you, Jessica.
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