February 14, 2025 • 56 mins
Imagine discovering a hidden potential within yourself that not only transforms your life but also impacts those around you. That's exactly what Jill Simons, a celebrated Catholic author and speaker, experienced when she uncovered her charisms. In this enlightening episode of the Catholic Sobriety Podcast, Jill shares her journey of embracing these unique spiritual gifts, leading her to close her business, Pink Salt Riot, and dedicate herself fully to Many Parts Ministries. Through personal stories, Jill and I discuss how recognizing and nurturing our charisms can open doors to new opportunities and align us with our true purpose.
The episode delves into the profound impact the Holy Spirit's gifts can have on our lives, particularly focusing on charisms that serve others and strengthen the church. We explore the distinction between spiritual gifts and charisms, and how this understanding can be particularly empowering for women facing challenges such as addiction. By aligning with our God-given gifts, we can overcome obstacles and foster deeper connections within our communities.
Throughout our discussion, we emphasize the importance of regularly revisiting and discerning your charisms, particularly during significant life changes. From stay-at-home moms finding purpose through music to nurses uncovering their true calling, the episode is filled with anecdotes that illustrate the transformative power of charisms in personal and professional environments. As a Catholic sobriety coach, I also share insights on how these spiritual gifts can provide clarity and direction on the path to alcohol freedom.
Join us in exploring how embracing your unique charisms can lead to a life filled with purpose, fulfillment, and joy.
You can find Jill at...
Many Parts Ministry: https://www.manypartsministries.com/
Pink Salt Riot (closing soon): https://pinksaltriot.com/
Charisms for Catholics Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/charisms-for-catholics/id1688464564
Join me in the FIRE50 Challenge, a FREE 50-day spiritual journey focused on deepening your connection with the Holy Spirit. You'll explore daily practices, discover our unique charisms, and grow in community with others seeking God's presence in their lives.
This is your chance to awaken new possibilities, and experience the transforming power of the Holy Spirit.
I'm here for you. I'm praying for you. You are NOT alone!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Catholic Sobriety Podcast, the
go-to resource for women seekingto have a deeper understanding
of the role alcohol plays intheir lives, Women who are
looking to drink less or not atall for any reason.
I am your host, Christi Walker.
I'm a wife, mom and ajoy-filled Catholic, and I am
(00:22):
the Catholic Sobriety Coach, andI am so glad you're here Today.
We are going to talk about oursupernatural superpowers, our
charisms.
If you don't know what charismsare, you are in the right place
, because today, my Jill Simonsis here to explain all of it,
(00:47):
and she's also going to help youlearn how you can find out what
your charisms are, and herministry can help guide you if
you want to continue to find outmore about your charisms and
how they can impact your lifeand your faith and your
community.
Jill Simons is a Catholic authorand speaker.
(01:08):
Her books include the EssentialHandbook on Living your
Charisms, Passion and Purpose,Charisms for Teens and Open your
Gifts.
She is executive director ofMany Parts Ministries a lay
apostolate that empowersCatholics to understand and
embrace their unique roles inthe church through charism,
(01:31):
discernment and commitment.
She is also host of theCharisms for Catholics podcast.
She is a wife mama for enjoyingfamily life in Tulsa, Oklahoma.
Jill is also the owner of PinkSalt Riot, so if you've bought
(01:51):
things from there or seen herbeautiful things, then her name
is going to sound very familiarto you.
But it's closing soon, so I'mgoing to have Jill tell you all
about that and how you can getsome really amazing deals.
So welcome Jill, it's so goodto have you here.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Thank you so much, Christy.
It's a joy to be here.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
Why don't we go ahead and you can just first tell us
about what's going on with PinkSalt Riot and then we'll dive
into our charisms talks?
Speaker 2 (02:25):
charisms talks?
Yeah, definitely, it'sdefinitely connected because
it's been through the journey ofhoning in on what is very
specifically most important inmy life right now, that the Holy
Spirit's leading me to that hasled to the decision to close
Pink Salt Riot.
So for many years almost adecade now my primary charisms
which as a functional definitionreally means just unique
spiritual graces given to anindividual to be able to build
(02:46):
the church those things for mehad been writing and leadership
and craftsmanship, and so PinkSalt Rite was a great vehicle to
do those things.
We create products that helpChristian women of all
denominations embrace theirGod-given identity, that are
really beautiful and reallyfunctional on that front and
that used my charisms reallywell for a long time.
(03:08):
But as many parts ministries,which is the lay apostolate that
you mentioned, is growing, it'sbeen really clear how there's
been a shift in what charismsare primary in my life right now
, and so I'm really trying topractice what I preach, walk the
walk, not just talk the talkand actually making that space,
saying the no that we talk about, saying a lot to the good to
(03:32):
make way for the best.
Yes, and so Many PartsMinistries is really clearly my
best.
Yes, right now, and though it'shard and scary on a lot of
different fronts, kind of bad ona lot of different fronts, to
let go of Pink Salt Riot, it'sreally clear that if I did not,
I would be diluting what it isthat the Holy Spirit is inviting
(03:53):
me into right now.
So kind of the way that you alllistening can benefit from that
is that we're having our goingout of business sale right now.
We've got really crazy bargaindiscounts on everything through
the end of February and then inthe month of March, just the 1st
to the 15th we're going to havemystery boxes available and
we'd love to have you be able totake some of those things that
(04:15):
are still really beautiful andreally functional but just not
where the Lord is really callingme to invest myself right now.
We'd love your support becauseanyone that shops our closing
sale, that money is just goingdirectly into really kind of the
seed fund startup money tocontinue to grow this charism
discernment ministry that we'regoing to be talking primarily
about today.
(04:35):
So if you desire to invest inthis in some way, that's a
really great way for you to dothat.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
Thank you for letting us know all about that.
And then a few things.
A couple of things came up asyou were talking.
I will tell you that I learnedabout charisms I don't know,
maybe five or six years.
No, it's probably been aboutsix or seven years ago.
We had a couple of women fromthe St Catherine of Siena
Institute come and speak to usSherry Weddle was one of the
(05:06):
women who started that and I hadnever heard of charisms.
I didn't really know what it was, because I come from more of a
traditional, not a charismatic,background, I should say.
So I didn't really understandwhat that was, but I was really
excited about it.
The Holy Spirit was just likenudging me.
(05:27):
I invited my mom to it and Itook their very detailed.
It's kind of a hard assessmentactually to take, but I took
that very detailed assessmentand came away with some things.
And I have to tell you that andmy family always says I'm
dramatic, but I will tell you ittransformed my life, like
(05:49):
really literally transformed mylife, not in that exact moment,
but in the years as it unfoldedand learning like, ok, well,
this is a charism that'spresenting what do I do with it
or how do.
I use it.
So in that journey, which isactually what got me doing what
(06:10):
I do today I used to do digitalmarketing and I just felt God
calling me to more.
I had to let go of steadyincome and all of that to pursue
sobriety, coaching, podcasting,all these things.
And I tell people all the timewe have to say no to something
so that we can say yes tosomething better, and that is so
(06:30):
in line with the work that I dowith alcohol.
We say no to alcohol so that wecan say yes to something better
, for being present, for notjust numbing out of life, and so
I love that you brought that upand that you shared your
journey with Pink Salt Riot andhow this very successful
business that you've had foryears and years and years you
(06:52):
are letting go of.
And yes, it's scary, yes, youknow it feels probably very
unsafe, but at the same time,you know that God's got you and
he's equipped you.
So thank you so much forsharing that part.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
Yeah, absolutely.
I think that that's where therubber meets the road.
For a lot of people right andthat's 100% what you see in
sobriety coaching, I'm sure isthe people where, obviously,
first step is realizing thatthis isn't the fit that you're
desiring.
But there is a large fall offbetween the number of people who
(07:29):
recognize that it's not a fitand the people that are like so
I'm going to go find somethingelse to do.
I think I'm actually going tolet go of this so that I could
discover what else it could be.
And that is so much like where,in this process, though, our
charisms are for other people,our purpose is for other people,
(07:50):
we need to provide something.
That is how we becomespiritually formed through the
process is those places that wereally have to grow in virtue,
because doing the thing in yourcharism specifically so this
might apply less to the sobrietyside of things, but in your
charisms, doing the thing you'resupposed to do is quite easy in
a lot of cases, enjoyable,effortless in a lot of ways, not
(08:13):
universally, but largely so.
Doing the charism work that I dois not challenging in terms of,
like I've really got to slogthrough it, or something like
that.
The challenge is in what Ibelieve is how things have to be
, what I've experienced before,what it is that I you know the
thoughts that I have about whatGod can and cannot do for me,
(08:36):
and it just invites us into sucha place that goes hand in hand
with coaching.
So well, we actually formcoaches in parts to be able to
help people discern theircharisms, because a lot of
thoughts that are kind of aroundall of this, and a lot of times
it's really necessary forpeople to look at and examine
(08:56):
those thoughts the same way thatyou would in these other
pivotal life changes.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
Yeah, I love that and I love the work that you're
doing.
I actually, when I started out,thought I want to be a
spiritual gifts coach, andthat's like what I started as.
Actually, before we really diginto it, why don't you go ahead
and explain the difference?
Because when we talk aboutcharisms and gifts of the Holy
Spirit and everything and fruitsand all that, it can get very
confusing.
So can you just briefly explainwhat the gifts of the Holy
(09:26):
Spirit, the fruits of the HolySpirit and charisms, how they're
different and how they help usand others?
Yes, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
So gifts of the Holy Spirit, which you were probably
drilled on when you were goingthrough confirmation prep
whenever that was are thingsthat are given to everybody.
So these are the functionaltools that everybody needs for
their personal life of faith.
So, said another way, gifts ofthe Holy Spirit are for you.
You need it to do what you needto do.
When you look at charisms, thoseare things that you are given
(09:57):
to be able to hand out to otherpeople, to give to other people.
So it's not a gift that youreceive for you, it's a gift
that you receive for otherpeople, and because of that we
get different ones.
So we all receive the samegifts of the Spirit when we
receive the sacraments,especially when we're confirmed,
but people receive differentcharisms to be able to give
(10:17):
those things to other people.
And then the fruits of the HolySpirit are just like the fruits
on a tree or something likethat.
Those are the things that weuse to discern if the Holy
Spirit is present.
So we are living in the giftsof the Holy Spirit in our person
.
If we are using our charisms ofthe Holy Spirit to give to
other people, we would expectfruits of the Holy Spirit to
(10:40):
come out the other side, becausethat shows us that the Holy
Spirit is really the activeprinciple in what is going on
there.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
Yes, thank you so much, because it can get kind of
confusing and kind of muddled,but I love that.
It's like the gifts strengthenus, equip us and help us and the
charisms are for other peopleand building up the church,
building up the kingdom, are forother people and building up
the church, building up thekingdom.
(11:09):
And when you look at thedifferent charisms and there's a
lot like how many do you haveon your assessment, we assess
for 24.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
We teach on 26 because speaking in tongues so
not praying in tongues, butspeaking in tongues and
interpreting those spokentongues are also clear charisms
of the Holy Spirit in the NewTestament.
But we always joke that youprobably don't need a test to
know if you can do that prettyauthoritatively one way or the
other.
Now, just as I mentioned that,the praying in the Holy Spirit
(11:36):
is a lot more like the gifts ofthe Holy Spirit, where the
prayer is kind of you prayingand you being able to have that
relationship with God prayingand you being able to have that
relationship with God, wherewhat we're looking for as a
charism is where you feel calledto speak to other people using
the gifted tongues and it's muchmore irregular to see, even
amongst the people involved inthat charismatic renewal.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
Yes, thank you so much for clarifying that.
So how do you think that awoman who is listening to this
you know most of the people thatare listening are realizing
that maybe alcohol is becoming aproblem for them, it's causing
a little bit of chaos in theirlives could be a disordered
attachment that they're reallyhaving to untangle themselves
(12:19):
from?
So how can our spiritual giftsand I'm talking generally, you
know, like our charisms, yes,but also our gifts of the Holy
Spirit how can those help herfind freedom in Christ?
Speaker 2 (12:37):
the thing that really is enough reason to change for
a lot of people I don't know howmany people whether it's with
sobriety around alcohol, whetherit's around gambling.
I have experience withpornography, addictions and
things like that kind of thewhole gamut of habitual things
(12:58):
that really interrupt ourability to be the men and women
that we desire to be.
So often the impetus for changebecomes the effect that we
start seeing we are having onother people.
A lot of times it's reallychallenging for us to choose to
change for ourselves and onlyfor ourselves.
So often it is what we seehappening in other people and
(13:19):
that can also lead to a lot oflies that the devil really likes
to dig in, with that vulnerablestate of dependency, saying
that we're only and always andforever going to be a negative
impact or negative influence onthat person, and that's just
(13:39):
patently untrue.
Like that goes againsteverything that the Lord says
about us, which is unchanged,based on what habitual things we
might struggle with.
It's really important that werecognize that lie, but it can
be challenging to see it as alie if we're not perceiving that
we are able to be effective andto be helpful and to be
(14:01):
contributory to other people inour lives and our charisms, no
matter whether we are honestlyand it is one of the most
challenging parts of thetheology is that whether we are
in a state of grace or not, wehave our charisms and we have
access to them.
That's one of the kind of weirdthings about charisms
specifically is that it is notsomething that is dependent on
(14:24):
how close we are to God or howgood we are or how well we've
performed.
This is something that we'vebeen given simply by the virtue
of our baptism and our opennessto receive grace.
So even if maybe we're not in astate of grace, maybe we are
struggling with something that'sa constant issue, that does not
impede our ability to use andpractice these charisms and move
(14:48):
towards places where we can seethe Holy Spirit moving through
us, we can see us having apositive effect and we can
gather that evidence that reallythere is a larger purpose for
us, not just, you know, forourselves, but for other people,
and I think that that's keyevidence for a lot of people
(15:11):
that they are.
You know, sounds kind ofnegative to couch it this way,
but they are worth saving, likeand, of course, everyone else.
But whether or not we, as thepeople with those struggles, can
internalize.
That or not is kind of whatvaries.
And so this becomes a placewhere I've had a lot of people
I've worked with have profoundexperiences of once they
recognize like this is somethingthat's coming from the Holy
(15:32):
Spirit, and then they use thatthing and then they see the
effect it has and they're justlike, oh my gosh, the fact that
I was like a functional piece ofthat puzzle right becomes that
evidence that it actually doesmatter that I'm here.
It actually does matter that I'm, you know, mentally and
(15:53):
emotionally available through mylife and not in a state where
I'm not able to be as responsiveor something like that.
And I think that those thingsare part of the whole puzzle
that can help people find thefreedom that they're seeking in
seeking sobriety.
And it's an important piece ofthe puzzle because just kind of
(16:16):
putting people in a silo andbeing like, well, you need to do
it for you or just it needs tobe a willpower thing or
something like that, is notwhere people are finding success
.
People are finding success whenthey are able to address the
thoughts, able to address thelies and actually have physical
evidence that they are, that ifthey do remove this from their
life, they are moving in apositive direction.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
Yeah, that's all so important and I think a lot of,
so a lot of the women that Iwork with, like they are
faithful Catholics, like they goto mass every Sunday, they go
to daily mass, they go toadoration, they are constantly
in reconciliation, and so Ireally appreciate what you're
saying, because sometimes we canthink, well, god couldn't work
(17:03):
through me, or he's not herebecause we don't see him,
because you know we have thatveil up, or we don't, we have
that unworthiness to evenapproach him.
And so I really appreciate allof that that you said, because
it's such an encouragement andit's a beautiful reminder that
we just have to tap into that.
(17:26):
It's like I heard at my twinswhen they did their confirmation
, and I've heard it since thenthe bishop was saying, like your
gifts are like this gift,they're wrapped, but it's up to
you to unwrap them.
So it's up to you to ask forthe gift of wisdom and knowledge
(17:46):
and counsel, and you know allof those.
And then, knowing your charismswhich that's what you help
people with that helps them know, like, what to say no to and
what they can say yes to.
Like, for example, if you're aperson like me that has trouble
saying no to people, that sweetladies that come up to you at
church and they ask you to bepart of their hospitality
(18:09):
committee.
That happened to me and I do notreally like hospitality
committee, but I did it becauseI felt like, oh, these women
have supported me, encouraged meand all this.
And then I was like you knowwhat?
It's just not what is my careis?
It's just not because of mycharisms, it's just not because
it was a slog and you alluded tothis earlier Like when you are
(18:30):
using your charisms it'seffortless, it even energizes.
You.
Like, if I am writing somethingwhere I'm teaching or
encouraging or you know all ofthose types of things, it just I
can just like power it out andthen I look at it and I'm like,
how did I do that?
Did I just write all that?
(18:50):
And you know it was the HolySpirit just working through me
through those different charisms, whether you know, whatever it
is.
The other thing is, you know,like some of the women that I
work with are moms that arehomeschooling, they have young
children.
And like some of the women thatI work with are moms that are
homeschooling, they have youngchildren.
And then some of the women thatI work with are retired.
They're kind of like what is mypurpose now, like their kids
(19:14):
are gone, they're not workinganymore and it's kind of like
what is my purpose?
And the moms with the youngkids and you and I have both
been there are kind of like I inthe trenches, like what I can't
go out and like use thesecharisms for other people, but
they are using them.
So can you talk a little bitabout the different seasons of
(19:36):
life and our charisms, Becausethey, they we will have
different ones present atdifferent times.
Is that correct?
Speaker 2 (19:44):
So we talk we typically talk about this in
terms of primacy.
So like this is a situation oflike I need last year's birthday
present back before I can giveyou this year's.
You know the Lord doesn't liketake these things back, but it
really follows the model in theparable of the talents, where
you know the people that stewardwell what's been given to them
are given more and given newthings.
If we haven't been payingattention or haven't really been
(20:07):
stewarding things, it's a lotmore common for people to stay
kind of in the same ones for alonger period of time because
the Lord's like anytime you wantto use these and grow in these,
I'd love to continue to growwith you, but he also meets you
where you're at, and so thepersonality of that primacy is
really important to be aware of.
So we encourage people to useour resources, our tools to just
(20:30):
re-look at after you've donekind of a primary discernment of
your charisms the first timethat you've ever done it.
To just revisit every two tothree years is a good kind of
benchmark, and if you don't wantto do it that often, that's
fine.
We're in a completely new statenow or all my children have
gone to college, or I'm becominga mom for the first time and
I'm going to be a newstay-at-home mom, or these
(20:52):
different functional changes inseason is a great time to just
take some time to really look at, like, what is it that the Holy
Spirit is doing right now?
And when we do that we are ableto better connect with the
individual instances of what theHoly Spirit is doing.
Because I think that and it'sit seems like if there was
(21:16):
really something supernaturalgoing on, that it would be like
super readily apparent and wewould know it right away and we
would be like, oh for sure, I'mgoing to move in this direction
(21:58):
People are extremely quick todenigrate the supernatural
nature of the gifts that theypersonally have been given.
So's really good to use kind ofthat third party of an
assessment tool to be a littlebit more objective about what it
is that's happening in yourlife and then to recognize that
you're serving the church whenyou're using anything at any
level of the church and thedomestic, the family, is the
domestic.
Church called that for a reasonand that there is an episode,
(22:21):
there is a way of using everycharism at every level of the
church and that is, you know,family of two, like newly
married husband and wife, allthe way up to like at the
Vatican.
There is not sort of thresholdsyou have to cross of how many
people or something like that,before you're really using your
charism or something like that,when we're not using them.
(22:44):
The only time we're not usingthem, I should say, is if we're
keeping them to ourselves.
If we're being that person inthe pair of the towns who like
literally buries it.
It's like I'm going divly sayno, avoid this, whatever, try
and keep it from popping upbecause of whatever fear or
whatever reason is going onthere.
So I've met so many people.
This is such a classic example,I think, for stay-at-home moms
(23:07):
and obviously there's differentthings going on at different
points in life but forstay-at-home moms it's so common
I've had this probably maybe 30times where there's a
stay-at-home mom with a charismof music and they're like well,
I used to canter, I used to bein the choir or whatever, but
two-year-old Susie is going tobe just like mommy, mommy, mommy
.
If I try that now you know.
(23:29):
And so what am I supposed to do?
And it's important to recognizethat it's serving the church
just as much for you to chooseto sing in the car instead of
playing the radio, when that isthe church that you've been
given in this season to ministerto and I've had so many women.
(23:52):
I was just like, do you thinkyou could just sing more when
it's music, or do do you thinkyou could pick up that
instrument that is where yourmusic charism kind of lives and
use that instrument in your homeand they're like I mean, I
guess like I probably could, andcome to kind of come back to me
or I come to find out.
They're like the home iscompletely different now because
(24:14):
there's a road of grace into itthat I could have opened up at
any time.
I just didn't even recognize.
That was a road of graceavailable to me, one of my
favorite stories that I've toldon lots of other podcasts.
So if you've heard this storybefore, I apologize.
But briefly, there were womenthat were both RNs and they both
wanted to stop being RNs.
So they came to me like let'sdiscern our charisms, let's
(24:42):
figure out what else we'resupposed to do, because this
ain't it.
And both discerned theircharisms, had totally different
charisms.
One of them, her primarycharism, was healing, and she
realized she was so sick andtired of being an RN because it
took a Herculean amount ofeffort to hold back the Holy
Spirit every single day when hewas prompting her to pray for
healing with people and to stepout in the more miraculous forms
of healing.
And she was actually at aCatholic hospital.
(25:04):
So she was able to go to herspirit and say, could I offer to
pray with people?
Obviously not against anybody'swill, but last time I had
talked to her, no one had eversaid no, like, regardless of
faith, regardless of anythingelse.
No one had ever said no.
And they started calling herthe express lane because people
were seeing these incrediblehealings happen and she's like
this is the best job in theentire world, same job that she
(25:27):
was about ready to leave.
And then the other RN didn'teven have healing, not on the
table at all, like red.
You know, on our assessmentthere's like red, it was red,
but her primary was hospitalityand she was an ICU nurse and she
realized that she was there tomake people feel at home and
welcome in the most terrifyingroom of their lives.
(25:50):
And as soon as she realizedthat, like, everything else she
did as an RN was secondary tothat like, of course she was
still operating with medicalexcellence and things like that,
but it was like that wasn't whyshe was in the room anymore.
She, she, loved being an RN too, and both of them stayed in
their exact same job andabsolutely loved it, and nothing
(26:10):
changed except for theirrecognition of what it was that
they were bringing into therooms that they were in.
And I think that this issomething though I don't have
like personal stories of this Ithink that this is something
that maps so well to thesobriety journey, especially
when it begins as a desire tokind of numb the state of
(26:32):
affairs that you find yourselfin.
And there's a myriad reasonsthat that can be the case.
But when we start to recognizemaybe the state of affairs is a
little different than Irecognize, or could very quickly
and easily be different than Irecognize some of that need can
dissipate a little bit.
Some of that impetus to go tothose things that kind of help
(26:54):
us escape can dissipate.
So that's another way wherethat clarity of purpose can
really speak into these journeysthat we're going on to find
greater freedom.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
Thank you so much for sharing those examples.
Those are such good examplesbecause it is as you are talking
.
The word that came is purpose.
Like all of a sudden they knewtheir purpose in that role.
What they thought was theirpurpose, wasn't it?
And I mean, yes, like you said,that was secondary, but their
(27:25):
main purpose, their God-givenpurpose, was those other things,
and that is such a beautifulexample.
So sometimes I have women thatagain, they're church.
You know, church going,adoration, going all these
things and we talk a lot about,like our identity.
I talk about this in my sacredsobriety lab and my clients and
I work together on it a lot, butI noticed just lack that
(27:52):
knowing of their true identityin Christ.
Instead, a lot of times weplace our identity in labels or
in things we do or in jobs wehave or in roles that we fill,
but that is not what our trueidentity is.
So can you explain how knowingour gifts and everything can
really help them embrace theirtrue identity?
(28:15):
Because I think that's wherefreedom lies right?
Speaker 2 (28:20):
Yes, absolutely.
So this is actually like afoundational, functional part of
how we do charism discernment.
So we, as you've alluded to,there's a variety of like other
tools available and things likethat.
I want people to just discerntheir charisms.
I'd love to help you, but ifyou find other things that work,
like great, I just I want thechurch to know their charism.
But what is unique in ourapproach that I think is so
(28:44):
helpful for people is a fewthings, but one of the primary
things is that we includeidentity as an aspect of really
what we assess in people.
So, on our charism assessment,which kind of narrows down what
your most likely charisms are,we also ask you questions that
really get at where are you atin receiving your identity from
(29:07):
God, because how you look atcharisms and what you need to do
with your charisms is going tovary based on that stage.
So it really falls into threestages and this is something we
see like pick your favoritesaint, whoever.
We can map these three stagesof identity in everyone, because
we go through the same kind ofgrowth that you go through in
(29:29):
human childhood development,where you have the early years
where you don't do a whole lot.
You don't contribute a wholelot, but a lot of people love
you and if they don't, thenthat's problematic for you and
you need that foundation ofknowing that you're loved before
you've done anything.
I've got a two-year-old and afour-year-old right now and I
(29:49):
mean you could ask any member ofthe family.
They're everybody's favoritemembers of the family.
They don't cook anything ormake anything of the family.
They don't cook anything ormake anything.
They're just loved for who theyare and that's like just that's
exactly how it should be.
And then I have aseven-year-old and I have a
10-year-old and these olderchildren they move into a place
where they do know that they areloved and part of them actually
(30:12):
responding to that love isdoing their chores in the family
, contributing to the family,serving the family.
Not because they'll doing theirchores in the family,
contributing to the family,serving the family, not because
they'll get kicked out of thefamily if they don't, but
because it's also just for themto look for age-appropriate ways
to kind of re-pour into thefamily to express the love that
(30:32):
they have for the family.
And that is exactly what ourcharisms are.
They are the chores that wehave been assigned in the family
of God.
These are the things that weget to do.
That famous parent line likeyou don't have to, you get to.
We get to do to show everybodyelse in the church that we love
them, that they're good and wewant to contribute to them and
(30:55):
we want to receive theircontribution back.
And then, in the final stage ofidentity, we kind of move into.
It breaks the analogy just alittle bit, because in the world
right, grow into maturity,where you become independent,
where you don't need thestructures, but in the faith
life you become more dependent.
You've been given many more ofthe gifts, but the dependency on
(31:16):
God becomes more and moregranular and the things he asks
you to do get crazier andcrazier, so that you really are
needing to grow in courage to beable to say the yes.
This was the running to thegrounds, my extremely successful
company, to be able to dosomething that currently doesn't
pay me, so that I can say yesto the bigger doesn't pay me, so
(31:41):
that I can say yes to thebigger, courageous asks.
And so these three stages areall included on our assessment.
Where do you fall and what areour recommendations for you,
based on where you fall and ifpeople do fall in that first
stage of identity, the mostimportant thing is that there's
zero judgment about that.
I've had people in their 90sfall in the first stage of
identity.
I've had, you know, 17 yearolds fall in the first stage of
identity.
I've had you know 17 year oldsfall in the third stage of
identity.
(32:01):
So this is not an age thing.
This is not a like whetheryou've achieved something or not
.
This is just where you are, andwhere you are is the only place
that you can be at this moment.
Jesus surprised about you are,and he's also not disappointed
about where you are, but he isconstantly standing right there,
ready, like whenever you wouldlike to move forward.
(32:24):
I am here for that, I am readyfor that.
And so the most important thing,in the first phase of identity,
when we really haven'tencountered Christ, when we
really don't know who we are inhim, it's so important that we
never partake in our charisms asnew ways to prove and perform
(32:45):
that we have value.
And I think that that's reallythe big and really the only
danger quote unquote aroundusing our charisms in that stage
.
Now, on the flip side of that,just like you can have someone
in a bad situation.
There's kind of the two roadsout.
Right, I'm going to perpetuatethat cycle, or I'm never going
to be a part of a cycle likethat, because I've seen how
(33:07):
negative it is and that is achoice that the individual gets
to make.
The same thing happens in thatfirst stage of identity, where
we can choose to look at ourcharisms with that same negative
lens of like I don't have anyvalue, so I'm going to use these
things that I'm functionallygood at to try and earn my value
, or I'm going to let thesethings be the things that
actually highlight for me, put amagnifying glass on where those
(33:30):
lies are and what the thoughtsthat I'm struggling with
actually are, so that when theyare highlighted, I can uproot
them, and that actually can howI'm able to grow and progress in
that journey of identity.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
That's so good.
I'm glad you mentioned thatbecause those lies we believe
and you know it says.
I was reading, it was in myBible and the author was saying
like the devil tempts us to sin,you know, tempting somebody to
drink or do whatever you knowthat they don't want to do or
know that they shouldn't do,into that vice, and like saying
(34:08):
like you deserve it and allthese things, and then as soon
as they do it, then he just ripson them right, like you are an
awful person and just likeshames, condemns and all of that
kind of stuff.
And so I love that you'repointing out that like knowing
these gifts working within them,staying connected, is going to
(34:29):
help root out those lies andwhen those lies come you can
recognize it right.
And so that's working withinyour charisms knowing that but
also reading scripture, readingthose truths.
We talk a lot in my SacredSobriety Lab about declarations,
so like speaking God's truthover yourself to root out the
(34:50):
lies of the enemy, because it'slike it's real, Some of it's our
thoughts but some of it is fromthe enemy, and so it's really
good to be able to recognizethat and be able to say no.
I also love the visual of Jesusjust being there, like whenever
you're ready.
Speaker 2 (35:09):
Yep, one of the coolest prophetic.
So prophecy is one of mycurrent primary charisms.
One of the coolest propheticwords I ever received for
someone was for a young man whowas in a really solid place in
his faith.
So we would probably call itlike identity stage two.
What happens a lot in thesecond stage of identity is
people are not having anyfunctional pain, there's not any
major discomfort, like theyknow that God loves them and
(35:31):
things like that.
The biggest temptation is reallythat complacency of just like
I'm good with this, this ispretty functionally comfortable
and it was so interestingbecause this young man was sort
of in that place and I got thisimage.
That's actually like he workedon like hazmat towing, so the
(35:51):
chemicals that he wouldtransport were done through
these machines that I had neverseen before.
So that was actually reallybeautiful.
The way that the Lord kind ofvalidated the word for him is
that I was able to explain thesemachines that I'd never seen
before that are used in hazmattrucking and there's essentially
like a kind of gauge or a waythat they meter the flow of
(36:12):
these things, and in the imagethe Lord was just standing there
with a hand on that wheel thatran the gauge, which is like, if
you ever want me to open it up,like just let me know.
And for that young man it wasso empowering to be like okay,
like there's really that doingwith God instead of like doing
(36:35):
for God aspect of these things,and I think that really
concretized that for him, sothat he was aware of his agency,
to be able to be like let'shave a little bit more, like
coming now I'm ready for alittle bit more, or I don't
think I'm where that's where I'mat now, but Christ was so
(36:55):
serene in that like there was noimpatience in Christ in there,
and I think that that'ssomething that we ascribe to him
incorrectly so often is thatGod is like, oh my gosh, this is
taking her a really long time,like I'm very frustrated and
that's never the case.
I'm actually I'm working on abook right now about saintsisms
(37:17):
in the lives of the saints,pulling out a bunch of saints,
and I'm working right now onsaint mark, whose last name I
don't want to butcher, but thechinese saint who was an opium
addict and never bought, andobviously that's the the never
getting clean heart isn't whatwe aspire to.
It's the fact that he like,never stopped hoping, never
stopped pursuing sobriety, andhe didn't reach that in his life
(37:40):
, but he never, ever lost theheroic hope that is a mark of
his sainthood and it's just areally beautiful story of, and
the charism I've been writingabout him for is faith that, the
faith that, even though I amnot healed in this moment, that
(38:00):
I could still be and ultimatelywill be, no matter what, because
it's really just a question ofthe timeline of healing if we're
seeking Christ, that it couldbe miraculously in this moment,
in the fullness of time here onearth, but it's 100% going to be
before I walk through thosegates into heaven, and so it's
not a question of if, it's aquestion of when.
Speaker 1 (38:20):
I love that and I have read about that saint
before and he's not like a verywell-known one, and so I'm glad
that you're including him inyour book.
But you're right, I mean, andthat can be with all kinds of
healing, right, it's not justaddiction, it could be like
physical healing.
Sometimes people just don't gethealed, but it's not for
(38:41):
nothing.
Like there are things that welearn and others learn through
us, and you know, people canbless us or be a blessing to us
as well, and so I think thatthat's a really good reminder.
And, yeah, definitely faith andhope that he had is just
(39:02):
amazing and incredible.
The last thing I just want totalk about that was so
interesting to me.
So you and I are both involvedin Encounter School of
Ministries and I had a reallyhard time with it in the
beginning because it's very.
There's some very charismaticaspects to it and those can be,
(39:22):
you know, the the Holy Spiritcan manifest in us in ways that
most of a lot of us Catholicsaren't used to, and so when I
would see people like beingslain in the spirit or speaking
in tongues or those types ofthings, I got very uncomfortable
.
And I talked to a deacon friendof mine who's also involved in
(39:44):
Encounter and I'm like I justdon't want to do that, like I
just don't want to look likethat or do that, and he's like
it be because of the counterfeitversion of intoxication that
you struggled with.
And I'm like 100% because whenyou read, obviously in Acts,
(40:05):
chapter two, right, are thesemen drunk?
Like what's wrong with them?
And Peter's like no, no, no,it's only nine o'clock, like
we're good, but they thoughtthat they were.
But it's true and and you knowI've and I still don't, am not
100% comfortable with it.
But now that I understand likethat counterfeit version of
(40:26):
being intoxicated, not havingcontrol of my words or my body
or those types of things, thatwas essentially a perverted
version of what we have in theHoly Spirit, because one of I
was at the national conferenceand one of my teachers and
friends at Encounter got the thespirit of joy, like the charism
(40:49):
of joy, just like poured outover her and she just giggled
for like hours and it was justlike, but you think of that, you
know, with with alcohol as well.
And then, um, patrick reese dida uh talk on that and it was
interesting because he wastalking about how, when we are
(41:11):
intoxicated with the holy spirit, or when we're seeking
intoxication with the holyspirit, we're seeking it through
substances, whether it'salcohol or other substances but
what we're really seeking is theHoly Spirit.
Do you have any thoughts onthat?
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (41:27):
I think that that's you know.
It points to the fact that thedevil can't ever be creative,
right?
He can't like come up with hisown thing because he can't make
anything.
And so that's what we seeacross the board, right?
Whether it's sexual ethics orthings like how we use
substances and things like that.
He's always looking at how Godhas created things to be so good
(41:52):
, such good experiences for us.
And how can he use our desirefor those things, the desire
that we have to be like fullyreceived by another person, and
just put that in a kind of aprofane context so that it's
something that draws us awayfrom God instead of drawing us
towards God?
And I think that it's reallyimportant to recognize that God
(42:13):
doesn't like just like.
He stands there patientlywaiting for us.
He also meets us where we're at.
So I always tell people whenthey're taking the assessment
and they'll get all nervousabout different charisms that
they're just like, please, notthat way, similar to your
experience where it's just like,please, not that like, don't
have that happen Then that's notwhat you're at right now, like
(42:36):
that is.
And that's not to say we don'twant to limit what the Holy
Spirit can do in us for thefuture.
That's not a forever state ofaffairs, but also, like that is
very true, expression of wherewe are currently at is something
that the Lord knows moreintimately than you do.
And so I have people that arejust like, oh my gosh, like
(42:57):
don't, please, don't make it bemercy.
I don't want to have to liketalk to people that I like I'm
terrified of.
And you know, I'm a tiny little.
I have this sweet little, like19 year old Asian girl.
She's like I'm terrified oflike having to go up to people
and I was like sweetie it'sprobably not what the call is
(43:22):
right now, and that is okay.
It is very fair to be honestwith God about things.
The same way that you desireyour own child to be honest with
you about this situation makesme uncomfortable.
That's something where, if it'snecessary, we're going to
really meter their introductionto that or we're going to be
very present with them in that,but if it's not necessary, if
it's something that's optional,then that's not what we're going
(43:45):
to push them to do.
And I think so often about youknow, if you that are evil are
able to give good gifts to yourchildren, how much more is your
father in heaven able to givegood gifts to you, and this
applies to things like this.
And so I think that anytimethere's fear in those things,
that's where we have thatopportunity to really further
experience our identity, maybeeven before we felt it, to just
(44:07):
choose, use our will and ourbrains to be like, okay, I'm
going to trust that you're notgoing to put me in this position
that I'm not ready for inexperiencing your grace, and if
you do put me there, that you'regoing to be right with me.
And afterwards I'm going to belike, okay, now, now that makes
sense, or now I'm with you onwhat that was about.
(44:28):
I couldn't have understood itbefore.
Really, it's just anywhere thatthere's fear, there's something
like the devil doing somethingright, because we should not be
experiencing any fear, and sothat's never meant to be a
shameful thing.
That's a red flag.
Like Jesus, I'm afraid.
Why?
What am I afraid of?
What's going on Like?
(44:48):
What is it that I think isgoing to happen?
That's a place for curiosity,right, the way we always talk
about in coaching.
That's a place for curiositythat then takes all the teeth
out of it, so that we can reallyinteract with Jesus about
what's really going on there.
Speaker 1 (45:05):
Yes, thank you for that explanation.
I think that's going to be sohopeful for a lot of people.
So your book Open your Gifts isthat a resource that can help
somebody?
So let's say that they've takenan assessment somewhere else or
they take your assessment Isthat a book that will help them
be able?
Because once you take theassessment and it's like here
(45:26):
are your charisms like.
It doesn't 100% mean those areyour charisms right.
It means that now it's yourturn to go test them out, ask
other people what they've seen.
You think about how people havecomplimented you.
Does this book help with that,or what is it about?
Speaker 2 (45:45):
Yeah, absolutely so.
One of the unique things aboutour assessment is we've included
the identity, like I talkedabout earlier.
But you also receive a full PDFreport at the end.
So most other assessments, youtake them and you have to do
some math on the last page andit kind of gives you some
numbers and without a lot ofcontext.
That can be kind of like cool.
So when all that processing foryou and we actually create it's
(46:06):
usually like 21 pages or so PDFfor you that very minutely
walks you through like here'swhere you're at in identity,
here's what that means.
Here is detailed informationabout your top six, here's what
you do next to kind of discernthem, and it very much gives you
the introductory informationthat you need.
And so if you are a personalitytype like me where I'm just
(46:28):
like, yes, let's just be curiousand figure things, that
assessment report is going to bemore than enough to kind of set
you on your merry way to beable to discern your charisms.
But some of my dearest friendsare extremely like no, tell me
exactly what to do Incrediblewomen.
And so I wrote this book forthem.
Is really that like no, tell mestep by step and like day by
(46:51):
day and what exactly do I needto do, and so that's what Open
your Gifts is going to do.
If you really really likehaving your hand held walk
through things, that's going tobe super helpful.
If you're more of a free spiritlike me and like to do your own
thing, the book I would reallyrecommend is the Essential
Handbook on Living your Charisms, because that is really just a
comprehensive reference bookthat's going to be helpful while
(47:11):
you're discerning, but itreally was designed for after
you have discerned and you'relooking at how do I sustainably
use and live in these charisms?
Because it's very easy to talkabout charism, discernment so
much.
That's the primary thing peopletalk about and like half a
percent of people talk aboutlike, when you have it, what do
you do?
But that's where you spend themajority of your life is in
having it and not questioning it.
(47:32):
So that's what that book is for, and one of the pieces in the
Essential Handbook on Livingyour Charisms is actually it's
broken down by charism and itlists some of the lies that are
sort of unique to that.
Really, looking specifically atyou know, when you have the
(47:53):
charism of discernment,understanding the spiritual
source of things, one of thelies can be just that you are
insane like that.
You're a crazy person becauseyou are seeing things that's not
there and hearing things thatare not there, and that's where
you have to be disciplined.
It's like, nope, I am not crazy.
Like I know, I'm not crazy.
The Lord, you know, in the nameof Jesus, the Lord shows me the
(48:15):
spiritual reality of things forthe good of the church and he's
going to teach me what I needto know to be able to steward
that.
And that's where we have to bewilling to kind of put in effort
Based on your personality type.
We also have a lot of peoplethat will do both, because they
want the step-by-step fordiscernment and then they use
the reference in the long run.
Speaker 1 (48:33):
Oh, that's so good, that's so helpful.
I love that it has the liesassociated with it.
I actually do have thediscernment, the gift of
discernment of spirits.
My husband has told me likeyou're crazy, not that I saw
something like physically, butthat those feelings or those you
know what some people would sayan intuition but it's really
the Holy Spirit like speakinginto me and I have thought, like
(48:56):
am I just crazy?
And so I'm so glad that you putthat out, because then once I
realized, like oh, this isactually something from God that
God gave me to help others, I'mlike, oh, my goodness, like
this is so freeing and it makesyou feel so much better.
It's just like finding out thatI was not, I didn't have
(49:16):
hospitality as my charism.
Speaker 2 (49:18):
I'm like yippee, like good, I don't need to do that
absolutely I'm kind of in myparish for them being like well,
you know, will you volunteerwith bbs?
And just being like no, thankyou.
And people like usually likesay they're gonna check their
calendar or something you knowof, like frame it somehow.
But I don't have to be busy tosay no to things that aren't for
(49:41):
me, because it is importantthat I remain free to say those,
say yes really freely to thosethings that the Lord does have
for me.
Speaker 1 (49:51):
Yeah, and I think it's so helpful to just as you
were speaking about that,because so many of the women
that I work with, they're justoverwhelmed, they are super busy
.
They are doing all these thingsand so when you kind of know
your charisms, your purpose,your identity, you can look at
those things and say what aresome things I don't need to be
doing.
That's some of the stuff I dowith my clients too.
(50:12):
It's like you say you have this, this, this, like all these
things, and it's stressing youout and at the end of the night
all you want to do is sit on thecouch and have a glass of wine
or two, or a bottle, and that'snot going to be sustainable.
So let's think about all ofthese things that you're doing.
If they take your assessment,then they're going to know like,
(50:33):
well, this is within my charism, this is why I like doing it,
this is why I'm so energizedwhen I'm doing it.
And then they know like theycan say, no, I'm not going to be
manning the bake sale table, orno, I'm not going to do X, y, z
.
One of mine is definitely notadministration, but one of my
friends hers is administrationand she was a little sad.
(50:58):
I'm like, no, you're needed andyou help.
We all help each other, so Ithink that's so good.
Oh my gosh, so this has beensuch a good conversation.
I want to be respectful of yourtime.
But, jill, can you just tellpeople where they can find that
assessment, where they can findyou and all the different ways
you can help them, just anything, and I'll put links to
everything in my show notes aswell.
Speaker 2 (51:19):
Yeah.
So, as I mentioned at thebeginning, I'll just plug it one
more time.
If you would like to supportthis ministry growing Many Parts
Ministries that helps peopleknow their charisms the best way
you can do that right now is toshop our closing sale at Pink
Salt Riot in addition to buyingour books and assessments and
things like that.
But the sale at the Pink SaltRiot is definitely the most fun
way right now.
So it would be unfair for me tokind of slight that.
(51:41):
But if you're interested inknowing your own charisms, you
can go to manypartsministriescom.
Our assessment and all of ourother resources are linked there
.
You can buy physical copies ofour books.
We can also just buy e-bookcopies of any of the books that
we have, and we would love theSpirit to provide everything
(52:19):
else.
What we're doing when we say yesto something that isn't for us
is we're like, oh gosh, holySpirit might not provide here.
I'll just do it, I'll just jumpin and like, stop, gap the Holy
Spirit, because I'm not reallysure he's going to come through
this time.
And we have a vision for achurch where we do not do that
anymore, where we say we areclear on this is where we fit.
(52:43):
This is what we have to offerIf we don't have something to
offer that we need.
That is when all of us knowimmediately to just go to the
Holy Spirit and ask this isgoing to be a situation where
he's going to provide what thechurch needs, and so you are a
part of that.
You listening to this podcast,you knowing your gifts, helps
that ball roll down the hill asthe body of Christ comes to
(53:05):
understand this better.
So our assessment is veryinexpensive it's just $9, and we
would love you to have thattool to be able to begin this
journey for yourself.
We also have a free resourcecalled Charisms for Couples.
If there is a situation in yourmarriage where it feels like
there's not space for one orboth of you to really do what it
(53:27):
is that you're being called todo, then we just facilitate that
conversation for you.
We have a date night guide foryou to be able to have a
conversation and really look atwhat is it the Holy Spirit has
given us.
Do we appreciate that abouteach other, do we see that in
each other and do we create alife together that actually
allows us to say yes to thosethings?
And, like I said, that's justfree on our website and all of
(53:50):
that is available atmanypartsministriescom.
That's just free on our websiteand all of that is available at
manypartsministriescom Perfect.
Speaker 1 (53:54):
Thank you so much for being here, jill.
Thank you for your yes to doingthis and your ministry.
It's going to help so manypeople and I know that a few
years ago, I was like I wishthat there was something like
this.
And now there is and, thanks beto God, you're doing it and,
yeah, and you're making thosesacrifices, but you're being so
(54:15):
obedient and I know it's justgoing to grow and flourish and
help so many more people.
So, thank you.
Thank you so much, christy.
Well, that does it for thisepisode of the Catholic Sobriety
Podcast.
I hope you enjoyed this episodeand I would invite you to share
it with a friend who might alsoget value from it as well, and
(54:36):
make sure you subscribe so youdon't miss a thing.
I am the Catholic sobrietycoach, and if you would like to
learn how to work with me orlearn more about the coaching
that I offer, visit my website,thecatholicsobrietycoachcom.
Follow me on Instagram at theCatholic Sobriety Coach.
(54:58):
I look forward to speaking toyou next time and remember I am
here for you, I am praying foryou.
You are not alone.
Welcome to the Catholic Sobriety Podcast, the
go-to resource for women seekingto have a deeper understanding
of the role alcohol plays intheir lives, Women who are
looking to drink less or not atall for any reason.
I am your host, Christi Walker.
I'm a wife, mom and ajoy-filled Catholic, and I am
(00:22):
the Catholic Sobriety Coach, andI am so glad you're here Today.
We are going to talk about oursupernatural superpowers, our
charisms.
If you don't know what charismsare, you are in the right place
, because today, my Jill Simonsis here to explain all of it,
(00:47):
and she's also going to help youlearn how you can find out what
your charisms are, and herministry can help guide you if
you want to continue to find outmore about your charisms and
how they can impact your lifeand your faith and your
community.
Jill Simons is a Catholic authorand speaker.
(01:08):
Her books include the EssentialHandbook on Living your
Charisms, Passion and Purpose,Charisms for Teens and Open your
Gifts.
She is executive director ofMany Parts Ministries a lay
apostolate that empowersCatholics to understand and
embrace their unique roles inthe church through charism,
(01:31):
discernment and commitment.
She is also host of theCharisms for Catholics podcast.
She is a wife mama for enjoyingfamily life in Tulsa, Oklahoma.
Jill is also the owner of PinkSalt Riot, so if you've bought
(01:51):
things from there or seen herbeautiful things, then her name
is going to sound very familiarto you.
But it's closing soon, so I'mgoing to have Jill tell you all
about that and how you can getsome really amazing deals.
So welcome Jill, it's so goodto have you here.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Thank you so much, Christy.
It's a joy to be here.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
Why don't we go ahead and you can just first tell us
about what's going on with PinkSalt Riot and then we'll dive
into our charisms talks?
Speaker 2 (02:25):
charisms talks?
Yeah, definitely, it'sdefinitely connected because
it's been through the journey ofhoning in on what is very
specifically most important inmy life right now, that the Holy
Spirit's leading me to that hasled to the decision to close
Pink Salt Riot.
So for many years almost adecade now my primary charisms
which as a functional definitionreally means just unique
spiritual graces given to anindividual to be able to build
(02:46):
the church those things for mehad been writing and leadership
and craftsmanship, and so PinkSalt Rite was a great vehicle to
do those things.
We create products that helpChristian women of all
denominations embrace theirGod-given identity, that are
really beautiful and reallyfunctional on that front and
that used my charisms reallywell for a long time.
(03:08):
But as many parts ministries,which is the lay apostolate that
you mentioned, is growing, it'sbeen really clear how there's
been a shift in what charismsare primary in my life right now
, and so I'm really trying topractice what I preach, walk the
walk, not just talk the talkand actually making that space,
saying the no that we talk about, saying a lot to the good to
(03:32):
make way for the best.
Yes, and so Many PartsMinistries is really clearly my
best.
Yes, right now, and though it'shard and scary on a lot of
different fronts, kind of bad ona lot of different fronts, to
let go of Pink Salt Riot, it'sreally clear that if I did not,
I would be diluting what it isthat the Holy Spirit is inviting
(03:53):
me into right now.
So kind of the way that you alllistening can benefit from that
is that we're having our goingout of business sale right now.
We've got really crazy bargaindiscounts on everything through
the end of February and then inthe month of March, just the 1st
to the 15th we're going to havemystery boxes available and
we'd love to have you be able totake some of those things that
(04:15):
are still really beautiful andreally functional but just not
where the Lord is really callingme to invest myself right now.
We'd love your support becauseanyone that shops our closing
sale, that money is just goingdirectly into really kind of the
seed fund startup money tocontinue to grow this charism
discernment ministry that we'regoing to be talking primarily
about today.
(04:35):
So if you desire to invest inthis in some way, that's a
really great way for you to dothat.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
Thank you for letting us know all about that.
And then a few things.
A couple of things came up asyou were talking.
I will tell you that I learnedabout charisms I don't know,
maybe five or six years.
No, it's probably been aboutsix or seven years ago.
We had a couple of women fromthe St Catherine of Siena
Institute come and speak to usSherry Weddle was one of the
(05:06):
women who started that and I hadnever heard of charisms.
I didn't really know what it was, because I come from more of a
traditional, not a charismatic,background, I should say.
So I didn't really understandwhat that was, but I was really
excited about it.
The Holy Spirit was just likenudging me.
(05:27):
I invited my mom to it and Itook their very detailed.
It's kind of a hard assessmentactually to take, but I took
that very detailed assessmentand came away with some things.
And I have to tell you that andmy family always says I'm
dramatic, but I will tell you ittransformed my life, like
(05:49):
really literally transformed mylife, not in that exact moment,
but in the years as it unfoldedand learning like, ok, well,
this is a charism that'spresenting what do I do with it
or how do.
I use it.
So in that journey, which isactually what got me doing what
(06:10):
I do today I used to do digitalmarketing and I just felt God
calling me to more.
I had to let go of steadyincome and all of that to pursue
sobriety, coaching, podcasting,all these things.
And I tell people all the timewe have to say no to something
so that we can say yes tosomething better, and that is so
(06:30):
in line with the work that I dowith alcohol.
We say no to alcohol so that wecan say yes to something better
, for being present, for notjust numbing out of life, and so
I love that you brought that upand that you shared your
journey with Pink Salt Riot andhow this very successful
business that you've had foryears and years and years you
(06:52):
are letting go of.
And yes, it's scary, yes, youknow it feels probably very
unsafe, but at the same time,you know that God's got you and
he's equipped you.
So thank you so much forsharing that part.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
Yeah, absolutely.
I think that that's where therubber meets the road.
For a lot of people right andthat's 100% what you see in
sobriety coaching, I'm sure isthe people where, obviously,
first step is realizing thatthis isn't the fit that you're
desiring.
But there is a large fall offbetween the number of people who
(07:29):
recognize that it's not a fitand the people that are like so
I'm going to go find somethingelse to do.
I think I'm actually going tolet go of this so that I could
discover what else it could be.
And that is so much like where,in this process, though, our
charisms are for other people,our purpose is for other people,
(07:50):
we need to provide something.
That is how we becomespiritually formed through the
process is those places that wereally have to grow in virtue,
because doing the thing in yourcharism specifically so this
might apply less to the sobrietyside of things, but in your
charisms, doing the thing you'resupposed to do is quite easy in
a lot of cases, enjoyable,effortless in a lot of ways, not
(08:13):
universally, but largely so.
Doing the charism work that I dois not challenging in terms of,
like I've really got to slogthrough it, or something like
that.
The challenge is in what Ibelieve is how things have to be
, what I've experienced before,what it is that I you know the
thoughts that I have about whatGod can and cannot do for me,
(08:36):
and it just invites us into sucha place that goes hand in hand
with coaching.
So well, we actually formcoaches in parts to be able to
help people discern theircharisms, because a lot of
thoughts that are kind of aroundall of this, and a lot of times
it's really necessary forpeople to look at and examine
(08:56):
those thoughts the same way thatyou would in these other
pivotal life changes.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
Yeah, I love that and I love the work that you're
doing.
I actually, when I started out,thought I want to be a
spiritual gifts coach, andthat's like what I started as.
Actually, before we really diginto it, why don't you go ahead
and explain the difference?
Because when we talk aboutcharisms and gifts of the Holy
Spirit and everything and fruitsand all that, it can get very
confusing.
So can you just briefly explainwhat the gifts of the Holy
(09:26):
Spirit, the fruits of the HolySpirit and charisms, how they're
different and how they help usand others?
Yes, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
So gifts of the Holy Spirit, which you were probably
drilled on when you were goingthrough confirmation prep
whenever that was are thingsthat are given to everybody.
So these are the functionaltools that everybody needs for
their personal life of faith.
So, said another way, gifts ofthe Holy Spirit are for you.
You need it to do what you needto do.
When you look at charisms, thoseare things that you are given
(09:57):
to be able to hand out to otherpeople, to give to other people.
So it's not a gift that youreceive for you, it's a gift
that you receive for otherpeople, and because of that we
get different ones.
So we all receive the samegifts of the Spirit when we
receive the sacraments,especially when we're confirmed,
but people receive differentcharisms to be able to give
(10:17):
those things to other people.
And then the fruits of the HolySpirit are just like the fruits
on a tree or something likethat.
Those are the things that weuse to discern if the Holy
Spirit is present.
So we are living in the giftsof the Holy Spirit in our person
.
If we are using our charisms ofthe Holy Spirit to give to
other people, we would expectfruits of the Holy Spirit to
(10:40):
come out the other side, becausethat shows us that the Holy
Spirit is really the activeprinciple in what is going on
there.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
Yes, thank you so much, because it can get kind of
confusing and kind of muddled,but I love that.
It's like the gifts strengthenus, equip us and help us and the
charisms are for other peopleand building up the church,
building up the kingdom, are forother people and building up
the church, building up thekingdom.
(11:09):
And when you look at thedifferent charisms and there's a
lot like how many do you haveon your assessment, we assess
for 24.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
We teach on 26 because speaking in tongues so
not praying in tongues, butspeaking in tongues and
interpreting those spokentongues are also clear charisms
of the Holy Spirit in the NewTestament.
But we always joke that youprobably don't need a test to
know if you can do that prettyauthoritatively one way or the
other.
Now, just as I mentioned that,the praying in the Holy Spirit
(11:36):
is a lot more like the gifts ofthe Holy Spirit, where the
prayer is kind of you prayingand you being able to have that
relationship with God prayingand you being able to have that
relationship with God, wherewhat we're looking for as a
charism is where you feel calledto speak to other people using
the gifted tongues and it's muchmore irregular to see, even
amongst the people involved inthat charismatic renewal.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
Yes, thank you so much for clarifying that.
So how do you think that awoman who is listening to this
you know most of the people thatare listening are realizing
that maybe alcohol is becoming aproblem for them, it's causing
a little bit of chaos in theirlives could be a disordered
attachment that they're reallyhaving to untangle themselves
(12:19):
from?
So how can our spiritual giftsand I'm talking generally, you
know, like our charisms, yes,but also our gifts of the Holy
Spirit how can those help herfind freedom in Christ?
Speaker 2 (12:37):
the thing that really is enough reason to change for
a lot of people I don't know howmany people whether it's with
sobriety around alcohol, whetherit's around gambling.
I have experience withpornography, addictions and
things like that kind of thewhole gamut of habitual things
(12:58):
that really interrupt ourability to be the men and women
that we desire to be.
So often the impetus for changebecomes the effect that we
start seeing we are having onother people.
A lot of times it's reallychallenging for us to choose to
change for ourselves and onlyfor ourselves.
So often it is what we seehappening in other people and
(13:19):
that can also lead to a lot oflies that the devil really likes
to dig in, with that vulnerablestate of dependency, saying
that we're only and always andforever going to be a negative
impact or negative influence onthat person, and that's just
(13:39):
patently untrue.
Like that goes againsteverything that the Lord says
about us, which is unchanged,based on what habitual things we
might struggle with.
It's really important that werecognize that lie, but it can
be challenging to see it as alie if we're not perceiving that
we are able to be effective andto be helpful and to be
(14:01):
contributory to other people inour lives and our charisms, no
matter whether we are honestlyand it is one of the most
challenging parts of thetheology is that whether we are
in a state of grace or not, wehave our charisms and we have
access to them.
That's one of the kind of weirdthings about charisms
specifically is that it is notsomething that is dependent on
(14:24):
how close we are to God or howgood we are or how well we've
performed.
This is something that we'vebeen given simply by the virtue
of our baptism and our opennessto receive grace.
So even if maybe we're not in astate of grace, maybe we are
struggling with something that'sa constant issue, that does not
impede our ability to use andpractice these charisms and move
(14:48):
towards places where we can seethe Holy Spirit moving through
us, we can see us having apositive effect and we can
gather that evidence that reallythere is a larger purpose for
us, not just, you know, forourselves, but for other people,
and I think that that's keyevidence for a lot of people
(15:11):
that they are.
You know, sounds kind ofnegative to couch it this way,
but they are worth saving, likeand, of course, everyone else.
But whether or not we, as thepeople with those struggles, can
internalize.
That or not is kind of whatvaries.
And so this becomes a placewhere I've had a lot of people
I've worked with have profoundexperiences of once they
recognize like this is somethingthat's coming from the Holy
(15:32):
Spirit, and then they use thatthing and then they see the
effect it has and they're justlike, oh my gosh, the fact that
I was like a functional piece ofthat puzzle right becomes that
evidence that it actually doesmatter that I'm here.
It actually does matter that I'm, you know, mentally and
(15:53):
emotionally available through mylife and not in a state where
I'm not able to be as responsiveor something like that.
And I think that those thingsare part of the whole puzzle
that can help people find thefreedom that they're seeking in
seeking sobriety.
And it's an important piece ofthe puzzle because just kind of
(16:16):
putting people in a silo andbeing like, well, you need to do
it for you or just it needs tobe a willpower thing or
something like that, is notwhere people are finding success
.
People are finding success whenthey are able to address the
thoughts, able to address thelies and actually have physical
evidence that they are, that ifthey do remove this from their
life, they are moving in apositive direction.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
Yeah, that's all so important and I think a lot of,
so a lot of the women that Iwork with, like they are
faithful Catholics, like they goto mass every Sunday, they go
to daily mass, they go toadoration, they are constantly
in reconciliation, and so Ireally appreciate what you're
saying, because sometimes we canthink, well, god couldn't work
(17:03):
through me, or he's not herebecause we don't see him,
because you know we have thatveil up, or we don't, we have
that unworthiness to evenapproach him.
And so I really appreciate allof that that you said, because
it's such an encouragement andit's a beautiful reminder that
we just have to tap into that.
(17:26):
It's like I heard at my twinswhen they did their confirmation
, and I've heard it since thenthe bishop was saying, like your
gifts are like this gift,they're wrapped, but it's up to
you to unwrap them.
So it's up to you to ask forthe gift of wisdom and knowledge
(17:46):
and counsel, and you know allof those.
And then, knowing your charismswhich that's what you help
people with that helps them know, like, what to say no to and
what they can say yes to.
Like, for example, if you're aperson like me that has trouble
saying no to people, that sweetladies that come up to you at
church and they ask you to bepart of their hospitality
(18:09):
committee.
That happened to me and I do notreally like hospitality
committee, but I did it becauseI felt like, oh, these women
have supported me, encouraged meand all this.
And then I was like you knowwhat?
It's just not what is my careis?
It's just not because of mycharisms, it's just not because
it was a slog and you alluded tothis earlier Like when you are
(18:30):
using your charisms it'seffortless, it even energizes.
You.
Like, if I am writing somethingwhere I'm teaching or
encouraging or you know all ofthose types of things, it just I
can just like power it out andthen I look at it and I'm like,
how did I do that?
Did I just write all that?
(18:50):
And you know it was the HolySpirit just working through me
through those different charisms, whether you know, whatever it
is.
The other thing is, you know,like some of the women that I
work with are moms that arehomeschooling, they have young
children.
And like some of the women thatI work with are moms that are
homeschooling, they have youngchildren.
And then some of the women thatI work with are retired.
They're kind of like what is mypurpose now, like their kids
(19:14):
are gone, they're not workinganymore and it's kind of like
what is my purpose?
And the moms with the youngkids and you and I have both
been there are kind of like I inthe trenches, like what I can't
go out and like use thesecharisms for other people, but
they are using them.
So can you talk a little bitabout the different seasons of
(19:36):
life and our charisms, Becausethey, they we will have
different ones present atdifferent times.
Is that correct?
Speaker 2 (19:44):
So we talk we typically talk about this in
terms of primacy.
So like this is a situation oflike I need last year's birthday
present back before I can giveyou this year's.
You know the Lord doesn't liketake these things back, but it
really follows the model in theparable of the talents, where
you know the people that stewardwell what's been given to them
are given more and given newthings.
If we haven't been payingattention or haven't really been
(20:07):
stewarding things, it's a lotmore common for people to stay
kind of in the same ones for alonger period of time because
the Lord's like anytime you wantto use these and grow in these,
I'd love to continue to growwith you, but he also meets you
where you're at, and so thepersonality of that primacy is
really important to be aware of.
So we encourage people to useour resources, our tools to just
(20:30):
re-look at after you've donekind of a primary discernment of
your charisms the first timethat you've ever done it.
To just revisit every two tothree years is a good kind of
benchmark, and if you don't wantto do it that often, that's
fine.
We're in a completely new statenow or all my children have
gone to college, or I'm becominga mom for the first time and
I'm going to be a newstay-at-home mom, or these
(20:52):
different functional changes inseason is a great time to just
take some time to really look at, like, what is it that the Holy
Spirit is doing right now?
And when we do that we are ableto better connect with the
individual instances of what theHoly Spirit is doing.
Because I think that and it'sit seems like if there was
(21:16):
really something supernaturalgoing on, that it would be like
super readily apparent and wewould know it right away and we
would be like, oh for sure, I'mgoing to move in this direction
(21:58):
People are extremely quick todenigrate the supernatural
nature of the gifts that theypersonally have been given.
So's really good to use kind ofthat third party of an
assessment tool to be a littlebit more objective about what it
is that's happening in yourlife and then to recognize that
you're serving the church whenyou're using anything at any
level of the church and thedomestic, the family, is the
domestic.
Church called that for a reasonand that there is an episode,
(22:21):
there is a way of using everycharism at every level of the
church and that is, you know,family of two, like newly
married husband and wife, allthe way up to like at the
Vatican.
There is not sort of thresholdsyou have to cross of how many
people or something like that,before you're really using your
charism or something like that,when we're not using them.
(22:44):
The only time we're not usingthem, I should say, is if we're
keeping them to ourselves.
If we're being that person inthe pair of the towns who like
literally buries it.
It's like I'm going divly sayno, avoid this, whatever, try
and keep it from popping upbecause of whatever fear or
whatever reason is going onthere.
So I've met so many people.
This is such a classic example,I think, for stay-at-home moms
(23:07):
and obviously there's differentthings going on at different
points in life but forstay-at-home moms it's so common
I've had this probably maybe 30times where there's a
stay-at-home mom with a charismof music and they're like well,
I used to canter, I used to bein the choir or whatever, but
two-year-old Susie is going tobe just like mommy, mommy, mommy
.
If I try that now you know.
(23:29):
And so what am I supposed to do?
And it's important to recognizethat it's serving the church
just as much for you to chooseto sing in the car instead of
playing the radio, when that isthe church that you've been
given in this season to ministerto and I've had so many women.
(23:52):
I was just like, do you thinkyou could just sing more when
it's music, or do do you thinkyou could pick up that
instrument that is where yourmusic charism kind of lives and
use that instrument in your homeand they're like I mean, I
guess like I probably could, andcome to kind of come back to me
or I come to find out.
They're like the home iscompletely different now because
(24:14):
there's a road of grace into itthat I could have opened up at
any time.
I just didn't even recognize.
That was a road of graceavailable to me, one of my
favorite stories that I've toldon lots of other podcasts.
So if you've heard this storybefore, I apologize.
But briefly, there were womenthat were both RNs and they both
wanted to stop being RNs.
So they came to me like let'sdiscern our charisms, let's
(24:42):
figure out what else we'resupposed to do, because this
ain't it.
And both discerned theircharisms, had totally different
charisms.
One of them, her primarycharism, was healing, and she
realized she was so sick andtired of being an RN because it
took a Herculean amount ofeffort to hold back the Holy
Spirit every single day when hewas prompting her to pray for
healing with people and to stepout in the more miraculous forms
of healing.
And she was actually at aCatholic hospital.
(25:04):
So she was able to go to herspirit and say, could I offer to
pray with people?
Obviously not against anybody'swill, but last time I had
talked to her, no one had eversaid no, like, regardless of
faith, regardless of anythingelse.
No one had ever said no.
And they started calling herthe express lane because people
were seeing these incrediblehealings happen and she's like
this is the best job in theentire world, same job that she
(25:27):
was about ready to leave.
And then the other RN didn'teven have healing, not on the
table at all, like red.
You know, on our assessmentthere's like red, it was red,
but her primary was hospitalityand she was an ICU nurse and she
realized that she was there tomake people feel at home and
welcome in the most terrifyingroom of their lives.
(25:50):
And as soon as she realizedthat, like, everything else she
did as an RN was secondary tothat like, of course she was
still operating with medicalexcellence and things like that,
but it was like that wasn't whyshe was in the room anymore.
She, she, loved being an RN too, and both of them stayed in
their exact same job andabsolutely loved it, and nothing
(26:10):
changed except for theirrecognition of what it was that
they were bringing into therooms that they were in.
And I think that this issomething though I don't have
like personal stories of this Ithink that this is something
that maps so well to thesobriety journey, especially
when it begins as a desire tokind of numb the state of
(26:32):
affairs that you find yourselfin.
And there's a myriad reasonsthat that can be the case.
But when we start to recognizemaybe the state of affairs is a
little different than Irecognize, or could very quickly
and easily be different than Irecognize some of that need can
dissipate a little bit.
Some of that impetus to go tothose things that kind of help
(26:54):
us escape can dissipate.
So that's another way wherethat clarity of purpose can
really speak into these journeysthat we're going on to find
greater freedom.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
Thank you so much for sharing those examples.
Those are such good examplesbecause it is as you are talking
.
The word that came is purpose.
Like all of a sudden they knewtheir purpose in that role.
What they thought was theirpurpose, wasn't it?
And I mean, yes, like you said,that was secondary, but their
(27:25):
main purpose, their God-givenpurpose, was those other things,
and that is such a beautifulexample.
So sometimes I have women thatagain, they're church.
You know, church going,adoration, going all these
things and we talk a lot about,like our identity.
I talk about this in my sacredsobriety lab and my clients and
I work together on it a lot, butI noticed just lack that
(27:52):
knowing of their true identityin Christ.
Instead, a lot of times weplace our identity in labels or
in things we do or in jobs wehave or in roles that we fill,
but that is not what our trueidentity is.
So can you explain how knowingour gifts and everything can
really help them embrace theirtrue identity?
(28:15):
Because I think that's wherefreedom lies right?
Speaker 2 (28:20):
Yes, absolutely.
So this is actually like afoundational, functional part of
how we do charism discernment.
So we, as you've alluded to,there's a variety of like other
tools available and things likethat.
I want people to just discerntheir charisms.
I'd love to help you, but ifyou find other things that work,
like great, I just I want thechurch to know their charism.
But what is unique in ourapproach that I think is so
(28:44):
helpful for people is a fewthings, but one of the primary
things is that we includeidentity as an aspect of really
what we assess in people.
So, on our charism assessment,which kind of narrows down what
your most likely charisms are,we also ask you questions that
really get at where are you atin receiving your identity from
(29:07):
God, because how you look atcharisms and what you need to do
with your charisms is going tovary based on that stage.
So it really falls into threestages and this is something we
see like pick your favoritesaint, whoever.
We can map these three stagesof identity in everyone, because
we go through the same kind ofgrowth that you go through in
(29:29):
human childhood development,where you have the early years
where you don't do a whole lot.
You don't contribute a wholelot, but a lot of people love
you and if they don't, thenthat's problematic for you and
you need that foundation ofknowing that you're loved before
you've done anything.
I've got a two-year-old and afour-year-old right now and I
(29:49):
mean you could ask any member ofthe family.
They're everybody's favoritemembers of the family.
They don't cook anything ormake anything of the family.
They don't cook anything ormake anything.
They're just loved for who theyare and that's like just that's
exactly how it should be.
And then I have aseven-year-old and I have a
10-year-old and these olderchildren they move into a place
where they do know that they areloved and part of them actually
(30:12):
responding to that love isdoing their chores in the family
, contributing to the family,serving the family.
Not because they'll doing theirchores in the family,
contributing to the family,serving the family, not because
they'll get kicked out of thefamily if they don't, but
because it's also just for themto look for age-appropriate ways
to kind of re-pour into thefamily to express the love that
(30:32):
they have for the family.
And that is exactly what ourcharisms are.
They are the chores that wehave been assigned in the family
of God.
These are the things that weget to do.
That famous parent line likeyou don't have to, you get to.
We get to do to show everybodyelse in the church that we love
them, that they're good and wewant to contribute to them and
(30:55):
we want to receive theircontribution back.
And then, in the final stage ofidentity, we kind of move into.
It breaks the analogy just alittle bit, because in the world
right, grow into maturity,where you become independent,
where you don't need thestructures, but in the faith
life you become more dependent.
You've been given many more ofthe gifts, but the dependency on
(31:16):
God becomes more and moregranular and the things he asks
you to do get crazier andcrazier, so that you really are
needing to grow in courage to beable to say the yes.
This was the running to thegrounds, my extremely successful
company, to be able to dosomething that currently doesn't
pay me, so that I can say yesto the bigger doesn't pay me, so
(31:41):
that I can say yes to thebigger, courageous asks.
And so these three stages areall included on our assessment.
Where do you fall and what areour recommendations for you,
based on where you fall and ifpeople do fall in that first
stage of identity, the mostimportant thing is that there's
zero judgment about that.
I've had people in their 90sfall in the first stage of
identity.
I've had, you know, 17 yearolds fall in the first stage of
identity.
I've had you know 17 year oldsfall in the third stage of
identity.
(32:01):
So this is not an age thing.
This is not a like whetheryou've achieved something or not
.
This is just where you are, andwhere you are is the only place
that you can be at this moment.
Jesus surprised about you are,and he's also not disappointed
about where you are, but he isconstantly standing right there,
ready, like whenever you wouldlike to move forward.
(32:24):
I am here for that, I am readyfor that.
And so the most important thing,in the first phase of identity,
when we really haven'tencountered Christ, when we
really don't know who we are inhim, it's so important that we
never partake in our charisms asnew ways to prove and perform
(32:45):
that we have value.
And I think that that's reallythe big and really the only
danger quote unquote aroundusing our charisms in that stage
.
Now, on the flip side of that,just like you can have someone
in a bad situation.
There's kind of the two roadsout.
Right, I'm going to perpetuatethat cycle, or I'm never going
to be a part of a cycle likethat, because I've seen how
(33:07):
negative it is and that is achoice that the individual gets
to make.
The same thing happens in thatfirst stage of identity, where
we can choose to look at ourcharisms with that same negative
lens of like I don't have anyvalue, so I'm going to use these
things that I'm functionallygood at to try and earn my value
, or I'm going to let thesethings be the things that
actually highlight for me, put amagnifying glass on where those
(33:30):
lies are and what the thoughtsthat I'm struggling with
actually are, so that when theyare highlighted, I can uproot
them, and that actually can howI'm able to grow and progress in
that journey of identity.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
That's so good.
I'm glad you mentioned thatbecause those lies we believe
and you know it says.
I was reading, it was in myBible and the author was saying
like the devil tempts us to sin,you know, tempting somebody to
drink or do whatever you knowthat they don't want to do or
know that they shouldn't do,into that vice, and like saying
(34:08):
like you deserve it and allthese things, and then as soon
as they do it, then he just ripson them right, like you are an
awful person and just likeshames, condemns and all of that
kind of stuff.
And so I love that you'repointing out that like knowing
these gifts working within them,staying connected, is going to
(34:29):
help root out those lies andwhen those lies come you can
recognize it right.
And so that's working withinyour charisms knowing that but
also reading scripture, readingthose truths.
We talk a lot in my SacredSobriety Lab about declarations,
so like speaking God's truthover yourself to root out the
(34:50):
lies of the enemy, because it'slike it's real, Some of it's our
thoughts but some of it is fromthe enemy, and so it's really
good to be able to recognizethat and be able to say no.
I also love the visual of Jesusjust being there, like whenever
you're ready.
Speaker 2 (35:09):
Yep, one of the coolest prophetic.
So prophecy is one of mycurrent primary charisms.
One of the coolest propheticwords I ever received for
someone was for a young man whowas in a really solid place in
his faith.
So we would probably call itlike identity stage two.
What happens a lot in thesecond stage of identity is
people are not having anyfunctional pain, there's not any
major discomfort, like theyknow that God loves them and
(35:31):
things like that.
The biggest temptation is reallythat complacency of just like
I'm good with this, this ispretty functionally comfortable
and it was so interestingbecause this young man was sort
of in that place and I got thisimage.
That's actually like he workedon like hazmat towing, so the
(35:51):
chemicals that he wouldtransport were done through
these machines that I had neverseen before.
So that was actually reallybeautiful.
The way that the Lord kind ofvalidated the word for him is
that I was able to explain thesemachines that I'd never seen
before that are used in hazmattrucking and there's essentially
like a kind of gauge or a waythat they meter the flow of
(36:12):
these things, and in the imagethe Lord was just standing there
with a hand on that wheel thatran the gauge, which is like, if
you ever want me to open it up,like just let me know.
And for that young man it wasso empowering to be like okay,
like there's really that doingwith God instead of like doing
(36:35):
for God aspect of these things,and I think that really
concretized that for him, sothat he was aware of his agency,
to be able to be like let'shave a little bit more, like
coming now I'm ready for alittle bit more, or I don't
think I'm where that's where I'mat now, but Christ was so
(36:55):
serene in that like there was noimpatience in Christ in there,
and I think that that'ssomething that we ascribe to him
incorrectly so often is thatGod is like, oh my gosh, this is
taking her a really long time,like I'm very frustrated and
that's never the case.
I'm actually I'm working on abook right now about saintsisms
(37:17):
in the lives of the saints,pulling out a bunch of saints,
and I'm working right now onsaint mark, whose last name I
don't want to butcher, but thechinese saint who was an opium
addict and never bought, andobviously that's the the never
getting clean heart isn't whatwe aspire to.
It's the fact that he like,never stopped hoping, never
stopped pursuing sobriety, andhe didn't reach that in his life
(37:40):
, but he never, ever lost theheroic hope that is a mark of
his sainthood and it's just areally beautiful story of, and
the charism I've been writingabout him for is faith that, the
faith that, even though I amnot healed in this moment, that
(38:00):
I could still be and ultimatelywill be, no matter what, because
it's really just a question ofthe timeline of healing if we're
seeking Christ, that it couldbe miraculously in this moment,
in the fullness of time here onearth, but it's 100% going to be
before I walk through thosegates into heaven, and so it's
not a question of if, it's aquestion of when.
Speaker 1 (38:20):
I love that and I have read about that saint
before and he's not like a verywell-known one, and so I'm glad
that you're including him inyour book.
But you're right, I mean, andthat can be with all kinds of
healing, right, it's not justaddiction, it could be like
physical healing.
Sometimes people just don't gethealed, but it's not for
(38:41):
nothing.
Like there are things that welearn and others learn through
us, and you know, people canbless us or be a blessing to us
as well, and so I think thatthat's a really good reminder.
And, yeah, definitely faith andhope that he had is just
(39:02):
amazing and incredible.
The last thing I just want totalk about that was so
interesting to me.
So you and I are both involvedin Encounter School of
Ministries and I had a reallyhard time with it in the
beginning because it's very.
There's some very charismaticaspects to it and those can be,
(39:22):
you know, the the Holy Spiritcan manifest in us in ways that
most of a lot of us Catholicsaren't used to, and so when I
would see people like beingslain in the spirit or speaking
in tongues or those types ofthings, I got very uncomfortable
.
And I talked to a deacon friendof mine who's also involved in
(39:44):
Encounter and I'm like I justdon't want to do that, like I
just don't want to look likethat or do that, and he's like
it be because of the counterfeitversion of intoxication that
you struggled with.
And I'm like 100% because whenyou read, obviously in Acts,
(40:05):
chapter two, right, are thesemen drunk?
Like what's wrong with them?
And Peter's like no, no, no,it's only nine o'clock, like
we're good, but they thoughtthat they were.
But it's true and and you knowI've and I still don't, am not
100% comfortable with it.
But now that I understand likethat counterfeit version of
(40:26):
being intoxicated, not havingcontrol of my words or my body
or those types of things, thatwas essentially a perverted
version of what we have in theHoly Spirit, because one of I
was at the national conferenceand one of my teachers and
friends at Encounter got the thespirit of joy, like the charism
(40:49):
of joy, just like poured outover her and she just giggled
for like hours and it was justlike, but you think of that, you
know, with with alcohol as well.
And then, um, patrick reese dida uh talk on that and it was
interesting because he wastalking about how, when we are
(41:11):
intoxicated with the holy spirit, or when we're seeking
intoxication with the holyspirit, we're seeking it through
substances, whether it'salcohol or other substances but
what we're really seeking is theHoly Spirit.
Do you have any thoughts onthat?
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (41:27):
I think that that's you know.
It points to the fact that thedevil can't ever be creative,
right?
He can't like come up with hisown thing because he can't make
anything.
And so that's what we seeacross the board, right?
Whether it's sexual ethics orthings like how we use
substances and things like that.
He's always looking at how Godhas created things to be so good
(41:52):
, such good experiences for us.
And how can he use our desirefor those things, the desire
that we have to be like fullyreceived by another person, and
just put that in a kind of aprofane context so that it's
something that draws us awayfrom God instead of drawing us
towards God?
And I think that it's reallyimportant to recognize that God
(42:13):
doesn't like just like.
He stands there patientlywaiting for us.
He also meets us where we're at.
So I always tell people whenthey're taking the assessment
and they'll get all nervousabout different charisms that
they're just like, please, notthat way, similar to your
experience where it's just like,please, not that like, don't
have that happen Then that's notwhat you're at right now, like
(42:36):
that is.
And that's not to say we don'twant to limit what the Holy
Spirit can do in us for thefuture.
That's not a forever state ofaffairs, but also, like that is
very true, expression of wherewe are currently at is something
that the Lord knows moreintimately than you do.
And so I have people that arejust like, oh my gosh, like
(42:57):
don't, please, don't make it bemercy.
I don't want to have to liketalk to people that I like I'm
terrified of.
And you know, I'm a tiny little.
I have this sweet little, like19 year old Asian girl.
She's like I'm terrified oflike having to go up to people
and I was like sweetie it'sprobably not what the call is
(43:22):
right now, and that is okay.
It is very fair to be honestwith God about things.
The same way that you desireyour own child to be honest with
you about this situation makesme uncomfortable.
That's something where, if it'snecessary, we're going to
really meter their introductionto that or we're going to be
very present with them in that,but if it's not necessary, if
it's something that's optional,then that's not what we're going
(43:45):
to push them to do.
And I think so often about youknow, if you that are evil are
able to give good gifts to yourchildren, how much more is your
father in heaven able to givegood gifts to you, and this
applies to things like this.
And so I think that anytimethere's fear in those things,
that's where we have thatopportunity to really further
experience our identity, maybeeven before we felt it, to just
(44:07):
choose, use our will and ourbrains to be like, okay, I'm
going to trust that you're notgoing to put me in this position
that I'm not ready for inexperiencing your grace, and if
you do put me there, that you'regoing to be right with me.
And afterwards I'm going to belike, okay, now, now that makes
sense, or now I'm with you onwhat that was about.
(44:28):
I couldn't have understood itbefore.
Really, it's just anywhere thatthere's fear, there's something
like the devil doing somethingright, because we should not be
experiencing any fear, and sothat's never meant to be a
shameful thing.
That's a red flag.
Like Jesus, I'm afraid.
Why?
What am I afraid of?
What's going on Like?
(44:48):
What is it that I think isgoing to happen?
That's a place for curiosity,right, the way we always talk
about in coaching.
That's a place for curiositythat then takes all the teeth
out of it, so that we can reallyinteract with Jesus about
what's really going on there.
Speaker 1 (45:05):
Yes, thank you for that explanation.
I think that's going to be sohopeful for a lot of people.
So your book Open your Gifts isthat a resource that can help
somebody?
So let's say that they've takenan assessment somewhere else or
they take your assessment Isthat a book that will help them
be able?
Because once you take theassessment and it's like here
(45:26):
are your charisms like.
It doesn't 100% mean those areyour charisms right.
It means that now it's yourturn to go test them out, ask
other people what they've seen.
You think about how people havecomplimented you.
Does this book help with that,or what is it about?
Speaker 2 (45:45):
Yeah, absolutely so.
One of the unique things aboutour assessment is we've included
the identity, like I talkedabout earlier.
But you also receive a full PDFreport at the end.
So most other assessments, youtake them and you have to do
some math on the last page andit kind of gives you some
numbers and without a lot ofcontext.
That can be kind of like cool.
So when all that processing foryou and we actually create it's
(46:06):
usually like 21 pages or so PDFfor you that very minutely
walks you through like here'swhere you're at in identity,
here's what that means.
Here is detailed informationabout your top six, here's what
you do next to kind of discernthem, and it very much gives you
the introductory informationthat you need.
And so if you are a personalitytype like me where I'm just
(46:28):
like, yes, let's just be curiousand figure things, that
assessment report is going to bemore than enough to kind of set
you on your merry way to beable to discern your charisms.
But some of my dearest friendsare extremely like no, tell me
exactly what to do Incrediblewomen.
And so I wrote this book forthem.
Is really that like no, tell mestep by step and like day by
(46:51):
day and what exactly do I needto do, and so that's what Open
your Gifts is going to do.
If you really really likehaving your hand held walk
through things, that's going tobe super helpful.
If you're more of a free spiritlike me and like to do your own
thing, the book I would reallyrecommend is the Essential
Handbook on Living your Charisms, because that is really just a
comprehensive reference bookthat's going to be helpful while
(47:11):
you're discerning, but itreally was designed for after
you have discerned and you'relooking at how do I sustainably
use and live in these charisms?
Because it's very easy to talkabout charism, discernment so
much.
That's the primary thing peopletalk about and like half a
percent of people talk aboutlike, when you have it, what do
you do?
But that's where you spend themajority of your life is in
having it and not questioning it.
(47:32):
So that's what that book is for, and one of the pieces in the
Essential Handbook on Livingyour Charisms is actually it's
broken down by charism and itlists some of the lies that are
sort of unique to that.
Really, looking specifically atyou know, when you have the
(47:53):
charism of discernment,understanding the spiritual
source of things, one of thelies can be just that you are
insane like that.
You're a crazy person becauseyou are seeing things that's not
there and hearing things thatare not there, and that's where
you have to be disciplined.
It's like, nope, I am not crazy.
Like I know, I'm not crazy.
The Lord, you know, in the nameof Jesus, the Lord shows me the
(48:15):
spiritual reality of things forthe good of the church and he's
going to teach me what I needto know to be able to steward
that.
And that's where we have to bewilling to kind of put in effort
Based on your personality type.
We also have a lot of peoplethat will do both, because they
want the step-by-step fordiscernment and then they use
the reference in the long run.
Speaker 1 (48:33):
Oh, that's so good, that's so helpful.
I love that it has the liesassociated with it.
I actually do have thediscernment, the gift of
discernment of spirits.
My husband has told me likeyou're crazy, not that I saw
something like physically, butthat those feelings or those you
know what some people would sayan intuition but it's really
the Holy Spirit like speakinginto me and I have thought, like
(48:56):
am I just crazy?
And so I'm so glad that you putthat out, because then once I
realized, like oh, this isactually something from God that
God gave me to help others, I'mlike, oh, my goodness, like
this is so freeing and it makesyou feel so much better.
It's just like finding out thatI was not, I didn't have
(49:16):
hospitality as my charism.
Speaker 2 (49:18):
I'm like yippee, like good, I don't need to do that
absolutely I'm kind of in myparish for them being like well,
you know, will you volunteerwith bbs?
And just being like no, thankyou.
And people like usually likesay they're gonna check their
calendar or something you knowof, like frame it somehow.
But I don't have to be busy tosay no to things that aren't for
(49:41):
me, because it is importantthat I remain free to say those,
say yes really freely to thosethings that the Lord does have
for me.
Speaker 1 (49:51):
Yeah, and I think it's so helpful to just as you
were speaking about that,because so many of the women
that I work with, they're justoverwhelmed, they are super busy
.
They are doing all these thingsand so when you kind of know
your charisms, your purpose,your identity, you can look at
those things and say what aresome things I don't need to be
doing.
That's some of the stuff I dowith my clients too.
(50:12):
It's like you say you have this, this, this, like all these
things, and it's stressing youout and at the end of the night
all you want to do is sit on thecouch and have a glass of wine
or two, or a bottle, and that'snot going to be sustainable.
So let's think about all ofthese things that you're doing.
If they take your assessment,then they're going to know like,
(50:33):
well, this is within my charism, this is why I like doing it,
this is why I'm so energizedwhen I'm doing it.
And then they know like theycan say, no, I'm not going to be
manning the bake sale table, orno, I'm not going to do X, y, z
.
One of mine is definitely notadministration, but one of my
friends hers is administrationand she was a little sad.
(50:58):
I'm like, no, you're needed andyou help.
We all help each other, so Ithink that's so good.
Oh my gosh, so this has beensuch a good conversation.
I want to be respectful of yourtime.
But, jill, can you just tellpeople where they can find that
assessment, where they can findyou and all the different ways
you can help them, just anything, and I'll put links to
everything in my show notes aswell.
Speaker 2 (51:19):
Yeah.
So, as I mentioned at thebeginning, I'll just plug it one
more time.
If you would like to supportthis ministry growing Many Parts
Ministries that helps peopleknow their charisms the best way
you can do that right now is toshop our closing sale at Pink
Salt Riot in addition to buyingour books and assessments and
things like that.
But the sale at the Pink SaltRiot is definitely the most fun
way right now.
So it would be unfair for me tokind of slight that.
(51:41):
But if you're interested inknowing your own charisms, you
can go to manypartsministriescom.
Our assessment and all of ourother resources are linked there
.
You can buy physical copies ofour books.
We can also just buy e-bookcopies of any of the books that
we have, and we would love theSpirit to provide everything
(52:19):
else.
What we're doing when we say yesto something that isn't for us
is we're like, oh gosh, holySpirit might not provide here.
I'll just do it, I'll just jumpin and like, stop, gap the Holy
Spirit, because I'm not reallysure he's going to come through
this time.
And we have a vision for achurch where we do not do that
anymore, where we say we areclear on this is where we fit.
(52:43):
This is what we have to offerIf we don't have something to
offer that we need.
That is when all of us knowimmediately to just go to the
Holy Spirit and ask this isgoing to be a situation where
he's going to provide what thechurch needs, and so you are a
part of that.
You listening to this podcast,you knowing your gifts, helps
that ball roll down the hill asthe body of Christ comes to
(53:05):
understand this better.
So our assessment is veryinexpensive it's just $9, and we
would love you to have thattool to be able to begin this
journey for yourself.
We also have a free resourcecalled Charisms for Couples.
If there is a situation in yourmarriage where it feels like
there's not space for one orboth of you to really do what it
(53:27):
is that you're being called todo, then we just facilitate that
conversation for you.
We have a date night guide foryou to be able to have a
conversation and really look atwhat is it the Holy Spirit has
given us.
Do we appreciate that abouteach other, do we see that in
each other and do we create alife together that actually
allows us to say yes to thosethings?
And, like I said, that's justfree on our website and all of
(53:50):
that is available atmanypartsministriescom.
That's just free on our websiteand all of that is available at
manypartsministriescom Perfect.
Speaker 1 (53:54):
Thank you so much for being here, jill.
Thank you for your yes to doingthis and your ministry.
It's going to help so manypeople and I know that a few
years ago, I was like I wishthat there was something like
this.
And now there is and, thanks beto God, you're doing it and,
yeah, and you're making thosesacrifices, but you're being so
(54:15):
obedient and I know it's justgoing to grow and flourish and
help so many more people.
So, thank you.
Thank you so much, christy.
Well, that does it for thisepisode of the Catholic Sobriety
Podcast.
I hope you enjoyed this episodeand I would invite you to share
it with a friend who might alsoget value from it as well, and
(54:36):
make sure you subscribe so youdon't miss a thing.
I am the Catholic sobrietycoach, and if you would like to
learn how to work with me orlearn more about the coaching
that I offer, visit my website,thecatholicsobrietycoachcom.
Follow me on Instagram at theCatholic Sobriety Coach.
(54:58):
I look forward to speaking toyou next time and remember I am
here for you, I am praying foryou.
You are not alone.
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