April 29, 2025 • 47 mins
Freedom isn't just about willpower—it's about healing the deeper wounds that drive us to unhealthy attachments. In this illuminating conversation, certified spiritual director and Unbound prayer minister Deanna Bartalini reveals how spiritual healing can break the chains that keep us bound to alcohol and other dependencies.
"Jesus reveals to heal; the evil one brings shame," shares Deanna as she unpacks the powerful five-key approach of Unbound Prayer Ministry—a Catholic-approved method that addresses the root causes of our struggles rather than just the symptoms. Through repentance, forgiveness, renouncing lies, commanding evil influences to leave, and receiving the Father's blessing, countless people have found freedom from wounds they've carried for decades.
What makes this approach unique? It's not about digging painfully into your past or requiring endless sessions. Instead, trained prayer ministers create a safe space where Jesus himself can reveal what needs healing. Unlike conventional conversations where people minimize our pain or try to "fix" us with advice, Unbound Prayer emphasizes compassionate listening without judgment.
Ready to explore how Unbound Prayer might support your journey toward alcohol freedom? This episode is for you!
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Heart of the Father (Unbound Website): https://heartofthefather.com/
Unbound: A Practical Guide to Healing and Deliverance by Neal Lozano
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Welcome to the Catholic Sobriety Podcast, the
go-to resource for women seekingto have a deeper understanding
of the role alcohol plays intheir lives, women who are
looking to drink less or not atall for any reason.
I am your host, christi Walker.
I'm a wife, mom and ajoy-filled Catholic, and I am
(00:27):
the Catholic Sobriety Coach, andI am so glad you're here.
Saint Paul tells us in Romans8-11, if the spirit of the one
who raised Jesus from the deaddwells in you, the one who
raised Christ from the dead willgive life to your immortal
(00:48):
bodies also.
This is exciting news, friends,because it means the Holy
Spirit who resides in you hasthe power, with your permission
and willingness, of course, tobreathe new life into you and
transform you from the insideout.
(01:08):
You have spiritual gifts andthe Lord's grace that can break
chains of all types.
Christ died so that you couldbe free, and believe me when I
say that he wants your freedomeven more than you do, because
he willingly and lovinglysuffered for the cost, wants
your freedom even more than youdo because he willingly and
lovingly suffered for the costof your freedom.
(01:29):
Now, breaking these chains andunbinding ourselves doesn't just
happen.
We have to first admit that wearen't as free as we might like
to admit and then humbly seekthe help that we need, and I
know from my own experience thatthis is not at all easy or
(01:50):
comfortable, but I can tell youthat the reward is great.
I believe that alcohol misuseor any other disordered
attachment is a symptom ofdeeper wounds that need to be
healed, and it's a spiritualbattle.
That's what my guest, deannaBartolini, and I will chat about
(02:12):
today.
Deanna is a certified spiritualdirector, retreat leader,
speaker and writer.
She has served in parishministry as a religious
education director, youthminister, liturgical coordinator
and stewardship director.
In addition to her professionalwork, deanna is an unbound
(02:36):
prayer minister.
Deanna has been married toDeacon John for over 40 years
and they are blessed with fourgrandchildren.
She is also the founder ofLiveNotLukewarmcom.
She writes for CatholicMomcom,diocesancom and Women in the New
(02:58):
Evangelization.
Deanna has also written a Biblestudy.
The Stay Connected Journals forCatholic Women, invite the Holy
Spirit into your Life,contributed to the Catholic Moms
Prayer Companion and digitalministry and leadership in
today's church.
She is a busy lady.
(03:18):
No doubt you can see this fromher intro.
Deanna, welcome.
I am so glad that you're heretoday.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
Thank you so much for inviting me, and I am very
happy to be here with you totalk about one of my favorite
things.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
Yay, I'm so excited to get into this.
Why don't you just go ahead andstart by sharing a little bit
about your work and how you gotstarted?
Speaker 2 (03:45):
Sure, Christy says I'm busy and I am, but
everything is sort of connectedso it's not as hectic as it
could be.
Right, as I've gotten olderI've learned if you kind of put
things that go together together, it's easier than to work on
them because they feed into andoff of each other.
So right now, really thebiggest focus of what I do is
(04:09):
personal spiritual direction.
I work at a local retreatcenter doing weekend retreats
for parishes and I do unboundhealing prayer with people.
Those are my main things that Ido on a regular basis.
And then I do the writing, youknow, as it comes up, as is
necessary, and I enjoy that aswell.
(04:30):
So that's really what I do mostdays, as well as play with my
grandchildren when I have theopportunity.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
That's wonderful, that's always fun.
How old are your grandchildren?
That's wonderful, that's alwaysfun.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
How old are your grandchildren?
Seven five, no, seven five andalmost two is one family, and
then a six-year-old is the other.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
Oh, I love that, so much fun.
So you've been activelyinvolved in Unbound Prayer
Ministry.
I mentioned that in your bioand that's really what I wanted
to focus on today.
That's why I wanted to have youhere.
So for those who are unfamiliarwith what that is, could you go
ahead and explain it and how ithelps people find freedom in
Christ?
Speaker 2 (05:18):
So Unbound is a method of praying to really get
rid of the wounds, the shame,the lies that we carry around
because of the world, pasttrauma, our own, you know
(05:43):
beliefs that we carry aroundthat we've gathered from other
people that are not correct andreally, to sum it up, it's
really the lies of the evil one.
And so in Unbound HealingPrayer we pray one-on-one with
someone who is ready to get ridof all the baggage that they're
carrying around they don't wantanymore.
(06:03):
Really, the guiding verse whenI think about, if I were to
choose a guiding verse which Idid not come up with, unbound,
which we'll talk about that in asecond but is John 10.10.
So it says a thief comes onlyto steal, slaughter and destroy.
I meaning Jesus.
I came so that they might havelife and have it more abundantly
(06:25):
.
We just celebrated theresurrection.
Jesus did not come so we couldbe okay.
So-so he came so that we couldhave a full, abundant, joyful
life, and the world is alwaysready to take that from us right
, to take that from us right.
(06:51):
So the unbound prayer processis a way to get rid of the pain
that we carry around.
I did not form this prayerprocess.
This was at Neil Lozano andwe'll talk about him probably a
little bit later as we go on,but I just want to be clear
about that up front.
And it is Catholic, it isrecognized by the church.
Neil Lozano has presented atthe Vatican I think it was two
summers ago they had a meetingabout all the different people
(07:15):
who do healing and deliveranceministry and priests who are
exorcists.
I am not an exorcist, be clear.
I am not an exorcist.
Only a priest can do that.
It is definitely a legitimate,needed and beautiful ministry of
the church of the world that Ilive in.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
I'm really close to Portland, oregon, and there's
just so many people seeking, andthere's so many people who have
gotten mixed up in things thatthey thought might help them or
heal them or you know whatever,but without knowing they
actually became bound in thingsthat they now need to be freed
of.
So I find this type of work soneeded and so beneficial, so I'm
(08:13):
so glad that you're doing this.
So what actually inspired youto be part of Unbound and how
has it shaped your ministry andyour work as a spiritual
director?
Speaker 2 (08:24):
How has it shaped your ministry and your work as a
spiritual director.
So this was way back in.
I looked it up 2016.
So almost 10 years now I'vebeen involved with Unbound
Ministry and first I had prayermyself because, like everyone, I
was wounded right, and if youlive in the world, you get
wounded again.
So, in order to have my ownpersonal healing.
(08:46):
A friend of mine said to me,hey, have you ever heard of this
Unbound?
And I was like no, I've neverheard of Unbound.
And she was trained.
She was in abortion healingministry and with Project
Rachel's Vineyard, excuse me andso she had come to know about
it through that ministry and soshe was just offering it to me
(09:07):
as a friend.
And so I went through, I readthe first half of Neil's book
you only need to read the firsthalf, because the second half is
different and I read the firsthalf and I really went through
really and made a list of what Iwanted to get rid of and he
(09:27):
guides you through it.
Not that you have to read thebook, you do not have to read
the book, but it is helpful.
So we went and we had prayer andnow I've known this woman a
very long time and when we weredone.
Maybe a couple of days latershe calls me and she's like so
how are you doing?
I said, great.
She said I have something Iwant to talk to you about.
She said did you think theprayer was helpful?
(09:50):
And I was, of course it wasunbelievably helpful.
I feel like, in many ways, adifferent person now.
She said well, how would youlike to do that with other
people?
I thought okay.
I thought okay I mean I'mlaughing now, but eternally
grateful in all honesty and somy diocese put together a group
(10:15):
of people and we got together,I'm going to say for at least
two months, if not a little bitlonger, and I was in the first
cohort of people who weretrained to be unbound prayer
ministers, and then we juststarted working from there.
One of the things about being anunbound prayer minister is the
ability to listen withoutjudgment.
(10:36):
I used to be a youth ministerand you also need to be able to
do that when you're a youthminister, because teenagers come
to you with problems and you'rethinking, oh honey, that's
really not a problem.
And other times they come toyou with very serious, very
serious problems and you can'treact in such a way that makes
them think that they are sowounded or damaged or beyond
(11:01):
help.
Right, you have to react withlove and compassion or at least
neutrality, right, showing youcare without getting emotional
about it.
I think that's really animportant thing.
I care about what the person issaying to me, but I'm not
breaking down into yourhysterical crying.
Right, you have to maintainthat.
And so, since I've started doingUnbound and then when you
(11:27):
become a spiritual director, inthe classes that I took with the
program that I was enrolled inlistening and I'm sure it's
enrolled in all programslistening is a huge focus.
We spent hours every daylistening.
We spent hours every daylistening, and it taught me even
(11:53):
more so to listen withoutjudgment, but with compassion,
with care, with concern, andreally the two things.
They work well together.
Even though I mean I certainlydon't pray unbound with every
single person who comes to mefor spiritual direction.
You know we focus on spiritualdirection, but it does help you
understand the pain that peoplecarry and how God so wants to
(12:16):
heal us of all that we arecarrying around and wants us to
know who he is.
And so I think those two thingsdefinitely come together in
both unbound and in spiritualdirection.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
Yeah, I can see how those would go so well together
and it kind of goes with thework that I do, because I see,
like I said in the beginning inthe intro, the misuse of alcohol
or really any substance orobject or anything.
It really isn't that thing.
I mean, yes, there are somescience things with alcohol and
(12:54):
how it affects our brains andall of that, but it comes down
oftentimes to just trying toheal ourselves, trying to numb
ourselves, trying to cover upthat trauma or heal wounds or
something.
So in your experience, ifyou've had experience with this,
have you been able to helppeople recognize this, like
(13:17):
maybe their misuse of something,whether it's food or alcohol or
whatever and how that isrelated maybe to a wound that
needs healed through thisunbound prayer?
Speaker 2 (13:33):
So I would say that, in general, by the time people
come to Unbound Prayer, mostlythey are aware of what they have
been doing and what they wantto get rid of or to stop doing.
And in the conversation thenyou listen to their story and
(13:53):
you hear where something mayhave been triggered and began,
and so then you pray againstthat lie or against that spirit.
Right, like you mentioned, youknow people searching for things
outside of you know our faith.
The occult is very big.
When I was a kid, you could buya Ouija board at Toys R Us.
(14:17):
None of us really thoughtanything about Ouija boards, but
they are not of God anddepending on you, on your
personality, on the openness ofwhat you take in right, then it
could be a problem for you.
So it's the same way.
(14:37):
You know, I can have a glass ofwine and I'm fine.
I don't need to have 10 glassesof wine.
So why is that okay for me andnot okay for someone else?
What does the wine do forsomeone who needs to have 10
glasses or who's an addict?
Right, it does something.
It's escaping, trying to getrid of our wounds in ways that
(15:01):
are really only adding to thepain, and then the more you are
open to the presence of evil, itcan attach itself to you.
And I'm not talking about greenvomit and spinning heads, we're
not talking about that.
(15:21):
We're just talking aboutordinary people who walk around,
unable to function, sometimesin everyday life, to mask their
or cover their anxiety withsubstances.
All of this and so Unbound.
Really, by the time someone, Ithink, comes, they know what the
(15:44):
problem is.
And if they don't know what theproblem is, often in the
conversation of them tellingtheir story, it will come out.
Worry, it will come out.
(16:04):
One of the things with Unboundis that it is a relatively
contained and short process.
It's not counseling.
You don't go to Unbound likefive times in a month.
It doesn't mean you can't haveUnbound prayer more than once.
I've had Unbound prayer morethan once because you know life
happens and things change andyou need to get rid of things.
But in general you talk aboutwhat is going on in that
(16:26):
person's soul that they want toget rid of, what is bringing
them to you.
So oftentimes they know aheadof time.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
That was really really helpful.
Thank you for that.
Now know ahead of time, thatwas really really helpful.
Thank you for that.
Now I think maybe people mightbe wondering a little bit about
what happens, because that canbe another thing, it's like yeah
that sounds great, but whatexactly does this entail?
Can you kind of break that downfor us?
Speaker 2 (16:52):
Yes, so typically we will see people and pray with
people who have contacted us.
So they've either been told bya friend or maybe they've seen
Neil's book and they've read it,or they've listened to his
podcast and they think, ok, well, I want this and we'll provide
those links in the show notes tothe website where you can find
(17:13):
people who are in yourgeographic area.
Basically, people come becausemany times they've done lots of
things, they've gone toconfession numerous times and
confessed the same sin.
They're in counseling.
Sometimes a priest willrecommend that they come to us
and pray with us.
The prayer process works likethis in general you will pray
with two people the main personthat you are praying with and
(17:36):
then the intercessor.
Two people the main person thatyou are praying with and then
the intercessor.
The intercessor is there andthe intercessor is basically
quiet and is praying for theperson as they're speaking and
then for the prayer process.
Okay, so the first part of itis we always open in prayer and
then I listen to the person'sstory.
I might jot down some notes.
(17:57):
If they have specificincidences that they talk about,
write down specific names orthings that they really feel
strongly that harmed them, thatthey want to get rid of.
So we talk about all of thatand then there are five keys.
And again, this is I did notmake this up and it's important
(18:18):
that we don't like freewheelthis we are led by the Holy
Spirit.
I am a conduit.
I don't do anything in the nameof Deanna, it is all in the
name of Jesus.
We follow the process becausethat helps guide us so that
we're not off doing whateverpeople think they should be
doing.
So the first key is repentanceand faith.
(18:41):
So the person asks, saysthey're sorry, they give an
assent of faith that they wantto enter into this, and then by
now we've heard the person'sstory and we go to the second
key, which is forgiveness.
So who do we want to forgive?
So oftentimes people harm usand they don't know it, or they
(19:08):
do know it and don't care.
And so we're not saying thatwe're going to forgive people
and then go back to them, butwe're going to forgive them this
way.
That hold that they had on usgoes away.
Forgive people and then go backto them, but we're going to
forgive them this way that holdthat they had on us goes away,
and then oftentimes we have toforgive ourselves, because we
are really good at holding on tothings ourselves, even things
(19:28):
that we've confessed, thingsthat we didn't do on purpose,
whatever it is, so we canforgive ourselves as well.
Then the next key are the lies,the enemies, to renounce.
And again, in the name of Jesus, I renounce the lie that I am
not good enough.
In the name of Jesus, Irenounce the lie that I am not
(19:49):
smart enough.
Whatever the lie is, whateverthat has attached itself to us
because of our story, because ofour life, that has attached
itself to us because of ourstory, because of our life, our
history, whatever has happenedto us.
We also have some specificthings that we do in the case of
a cult, just a very specificprayer that we pray, anything
(20:12):
that has attached itself throughthat to us, so from tarot cards
, psychics, ouija boards, thatkind of thing, thing.
And then the fourth key is theword of command.
And so then, at the word ofcommand, the person who is
telling their story is quiet andthe person who is praying gives
the word of command to takeeverything that the person has
renounced, all the lies, all thespirits, and we send them to
(20:35):
jesus and Jesus deals with them,because that's what Jesus does.
He deals with all the lies, hestands against the evil one.
And then there's like prayersof thanksgiving.
We give some thanks and praiseto God for what he has done, and
then the last key is theFather's blessing.
And at that point, oftentimes,depending on where you are, it
(20:57):
may look a little differently,but we always ask for permission
.
I put my hand on the person'sshoulder and the intercessor
same thing, and we will pray theFather's blessing over the
person.
And that's the process.
And every prayer time is alittle bit different and for
(21:19):
some people there is animmediate sense of relief and
for sometimes, for other people,it takes time.
God works in his time.
Then we also tell people how tohold on to that freedom.
And that's the point of theFather's blessing, because we're
going to empty out the garbageright, we just empty out
(21:39):
everything, and now it has to befilled with something good.
You know, it's like when you goto the dentist.
He takes out the cavity andthen he fills it with whatever
he fills it with.
And we do the same thing we getrid of the lies of the evil one
and we fill it with theFather's blessing.
That's the process.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
That's so helpful.
Thank you so much for goingthrough that process.
It kind of demystifies it alittle bit and makes it a little
less scary and I reallyappreciate the fact that it
follows you know, like peoplecan't just get all willy nilly
and get off on a tangent Like itfollows an actual process that
(22:22):
is going to help guide theperson through that unbound
prayer.
When you were talking, itreminded me of an image that I
had had before when thinkingabout you know, kind of those
strongholds that the evil onehas on us as being like little
strings on us.
You know kind of thosestrongholds that the evil one
has on us as being like littlestrings on us, you know, and
some of them are a littletighter, some of them are a
(22:43):
little bigger, some of them aresmall, like little dental floss
or something on that wholedentist line.
But you know, and then as youdo this unbound prayer, or you
break those strongholds, you'rejust kind of getting rid of
those, you're cutting those awayand some of them, like you were
saying, it may take anothersession or it just may take.
(23:09):
You know, continuing to praylike more Lord, like I am
seeking this freedom and justgiving him your willingness over
and over again.
So is there a follow up?
Like, let's say, somebody goesthrough an unbound prayer
session.
They're like I don't feelanything, which I can't imagine
(23:29):
would happen, but I'm sure itdoes.
You know, they're like I don'tfeel anything.
Is there follow up, or arethere other things that you ask
them to continue doing?
And is there a certain amountof time?
Like, let's say, they gothrough it and they want to do
it again.
Like, should they wait acertain amount of time before
they go for another session?
Speaker 2 (23:49):
There's no hard and fast rule on the waiting.
We've never I mean I don'tthink we've ever had anyone sort
of say okay, well, let's makean appointment now for next week
.
That's never happened to me,Right, and I think it would
depend.
And sometimes, if people have alot of trauma, we might say up
front you know, this might taketwo times and so it might be.
(24:13):
We do what comes up today andthen you wait and see how you
feel, Because when you get ridof things, it can be tiring
because it's very, it can bevery emotional.
One of the things is when peoplecome and they tell their story.
It's their story.
I do not ask a lot of questions.
(24:34):
They give the details that theywant to give.
There's no digging.
We don't dig right.
I am not a therapist, I am nota counselor.
(24:54):
I am a woman who firmlybelieves that God can heal us.
But it's not up to me, it's up,it's him, it's totally him.
And so we don't really, wedon't really put like
constraints on that part of it.
When can you come back again?
Like you're not going to comeback tomorrow.
You need to let things settle,you know.
And then as far as instructions,so we have like some little
(25:19):
information that we give people,but also we encourage people in
their own prayer they can outloud say, in the name of jesus,
I renounce anxiety.
In the name of jesus, Irenounce fear.
In the name of jesus, Irenounce the lie that I'm gonna
have a fight with my brotherwhen he comes over.
You know whatever it is rightand then, when you're done, you
(25:43):
give the same, the word ofcommand, so you can do that
yourself.
I don't think it's helpful and Iwould not recommend that you do
your whole life by yourself,Because you know we are meant to
be with other people, we aremeant to help each other and you
know if God is Father, Son andSpirit, a trinity, a community,
(26:07):
we need to be in community to dothat as well, and so that's
what we recommend.
The other thing we recommend,depending on, again, on the
situation.
Maybe the person would benefitfrom confession, Maybe the
person would benefit fromspending an hour in adoration a
couple of times in a month oronce a week or something.
So it just depends on thesituation what we ask or suggest
(26:28):
for people to do.
It just depends.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
Yeah, because, like you said, everybody's different,
everybody's level of trauma orneed for healing is going to be
different, so I could completelysee how that would be the case.
So would you be able to sharelike an example or testimony
from your ministry of someonewho you witnessed have like a
(26:52):
profound transformation throughUnbound Prayer?
Like a profound transformationthrough Unbound Prayer?
Speaker 2 (26:58):
So it's hard to say transformation, because
oftentimes, most times reallypeople come to us, we pray with
them and we rarely see themagain, which is interesting,
right, because you think, well,how do I know what I did worked,
and there's that huge level oftrust in the work of God, of the
(27:21):
Holy Spirit, to say, okay, Idid my part with his help, yes,
and now I let there, you go.
But I will say that one of themost profound experiences that I
had with praying with someoneshe could have been my mother
and she came in and this was ata conference and so we had
(27:48):
limited amount of time.
It was not normally, whensomeone makes an appointment, it
can go between an hour to anhour and a half.
This was going to be short, sopeople would come and talk about
just about one thing that wasreally bothering them.
Whatever happened, we were ableto take more time with this
woman and she starts goingthrough her story and she's
(28:09):
telling us lots of differentthings and I don't want to give
too many details, but she hadlived her life for others Nurse,
foster mom, had her ownchildren, so forth, so on and
we're going through the prayerprocess and we pause every now
and again.
How are you feeling?
Is anything coming up?
(28:30):
And this is good.
I feel so much better, I'm gladI let that go, this sorts of
thing, right.
We get to the end and she saysthis was beautiful, but there's
still something.
And I said, okay, I'll stop andwe're going to ask for the Holy
Spirit to just illuminate thissituation.
(28:50):
So we did.
I don't even know how long wewere stopped, for it wasn't very
long and all of a sudden shesays I know what it is.
I said okay.
She said I had an abortion.
Not only had she had anabortion, but she had been raped
and she did not want to havethe abortion.
(29:12):
And I'm not going to give thedate, but I'm going to tell you
that it was before abortion waslegal and it was not in America,
was not in America.
So as I'm listening to her, I'mthinking the absolute horror of
all of that.
So she was young, all of thethings that we imagine right, of
(29:40):
the horror of that type of asituation and injustice upon
injustice.
And so we prayed that and sheleft that room looking like a
different woman.
She was a beautiful woman.
She had hardly any wrinkles.
I was like if I could look likethat when I'm that old, oh my
gosh.
But her whole countenancechanged because she'd been
(30:04):
carrying that around for a long,long, long time, even though
she had children, even thoughshe had foster children she had
adopted, like all of thosethings didn't matter, the evil
one kept poking her in that spot.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
He does that, and sometimes we don't even realize
it.
Or like she probably thought,well, this happened so long ago,
it's not even affecting me nowbecause I've already.
I've done all of these things.
I think that's what happenswith, like forgiveness.
Sometimes we can think, well,I've already forgiven that
person.
But you know, sometimes we needto forgive over and over and
(30:43):
over again and re-forgive, andwe have to do that with
ourselves too, right?
So it can be something wheremaybe you don't notice it, like
on the forefront of your everyday, or that type of thing.
But that is what is so powerfulabout prayer ministry, like
(31:04):
Unbound is that Jesus isrevealing that to the person.
Right, jesus brings that tomind, like this needs the
hearing, and like for her not tocome in and be like, well, this
is what it is, but that it wasrevealed later.
That just shows it wasn'tpreconceived, it wasn't anything
(31:26):
.
That was such a beautifultestimony, just highlighting the
fact that when you go intothese sessions, sometimes people
will have something in theirmind, but then Jesus reveals
something else, and I think thatthat is so powerful because
Jesus knows what we need most.
(31:46):
And the other thing that you'vementioned and you mentioned it
before when we talked, was thatit's so important to remember
that, even though the evil onegets these permissions or
footholds on us, is able toplace those little ropes around
our wrists and keep us stuck.
Jesus is far more powerful andhis power can release you, and
(32:13):
that's what I love about it aswell, and I love that you had
mentioned that before when wewere talking.
Speaker 2 (32:20):
I think it's really important.
I think, too, in school therewas this phrase that was used
repeatedly, and I think it'sreally important.
I think, too, in school therewas this phrase that was used
repeatedly, and I think it's sotrue.
Jesus reveals to heal the evilone.
He's all about shame.
Jesus reveals to heal point ofUnbound right is that I don't go
(32:48):
in there deciding what you need.
You tell me, you tell theprayer ministers and they listen
to you, which, again, is such arare thing in this day and age.
We don't do a very good joboften of listening to each other
.
You know, I have my thoughts ofwhat you need and let me just
tell you what you need.
Well, no, you're going to tellme what you need and sometimes,
(33:08):
if people have a lot of traumaand oftentimes with trauma,
they've tried to talk to peopleand they get sort of oh well,
let me tell you how bad my lifewas.
Right, oh, that doesn't soundso terrible.
Oh, come on, don't be such ababy.
Oh, my gosh, really, it's likethings you never say Right,
(33:31):
right, and so you want to havethat trust.
That that's why we don't digRight, that's why we listen and
we might ask for clarification,but we don't keep going and
going to the point that theperson you know feels ashamed.
We don't want to do that.
(33:52):
You know you want to heal the.
Let the healing happen fromwhatever is going on in the
person's life and it's not ourdecision.
How bad they felt Right, sothat all comes into play there.
Speaker 1 (34:07):
Yeah, yeah, that's absolutely true.
I really I love the emphasis onlistening because, like you
were saying, it's something thatwe don't receive very often.
People, you know, a lot oftimes we listen to respond, we
don't listen to hear, and that'sso much of, I'm sure, the work
(34:27):
I know the work that you know alot of times we listen to
respond, we don't listen to hear, and that's so much of, I'm
sure, the work I know the workthat you do as a spiritual
director, as a coach.
That's what we're trained to dois just to listen and ask
questions, because from aspiritual aspect, just like with
the unbound prayer, you knowthings are revealed.
The Holy Spirit is working inus, jesus is revealing things,
(34:50):
and the same is true likethrough spiritual direction,
coaching, counseling and thosetypes of things like Christian
counseling reveal things to usthat you know we had that answer
all along, or maybe you knowthe Holy Spirit reveals it to us
.
And so, like I can't go to aperson and say, okay, you want
(35:15):
to stop drinking, I need you todo this, I need you to do that.
It's not going to work foreverybody, it's not a
one-size-fits-all approach.
I don't know what their life islike I don't know what is going
to work for them, but they do,even if they don't at the moment
.
That's where listening comes in, because not only am I
(35:36):
listening to them, but when Isay it again to them what they
just said, they're like oh yeah,you know, and it's so beautiful
, that revelation, and so that'swhy it's so important.
Silence is so important.
We don't get enough of thateither, and we can see here that
(35:56):
prayer is so powerful and soimportant in our whole healing
journey.
I also loved that you said inyour story you needed unbound
prayer.
You didn't know that you neededit necessarily, but a friend
reached out to you and you know,I'm sure with the Holy Spirit's
prompting was like, hey, youshould ask Deanna about that,
(36:19):
but then you can take that andallow Jesus to work through you
to heal others.
Right, it's that saying likewounded people, wound people,
healed people, heal people.
And when you've experiencedthat freedom, it's so exciting
because you're so much lighterand you know like maybe every
(36:41):
day isn't perfect, every day isnot going to be perfect, but you
feel so much lighter.
The word unbound is it justreminds me of like Lazarus and
all of his bandages, and youknow you just get unbound,
you're free and you have thisclarity that you wouldn't have
(37:01):
had before, that you wouldn'thave had before, and it allows
us to do hard things or to dothe things that God is asking us
to do.
I feel like we can hear hisvoice more clearly right Once we
kind of clear away thosecobwebs.
Speaker 2 (37:18):
Yeah, when you have this sort of prayer and you have
this space, you start torealize how God works and that
he is working and that he wantsto work with you and through you
.
I think about God is incrediblymerciful.
He is incredibly merciful, andwho am I to not then share that
(37:43):
mercy that he has given me withother people?
That is one of the biggestthings that I feel like with
Unbound Prayer.
There's that opportunity totruly show mercy to people who
feel oftentimes ashamed orembarrassed, or less than
(38:06):
through no fault of their own,and so we are able to be Jesus
in that moment.
I don't think I am Jesus, to beclear, but in that moment we are
ministering to those people.
Just like Jesus sent thedisciples out two by two and he
gave them the power to do things.
We're in the Easter season now.
(38:27):
We're reading Acts, and so wesee what the disciples were able
to do because they moved in thepower of Christ, and when we
step out in that truth and inthat faith, we are able to help
people, and that's so importantand so necessary.
Speaker 1 (38:48):
Yeah, and we need more of that.
So the more people that canexperience this freedom and
healing, the more people will behealed through that and it just
is like a ripple effect that Ithink is so needed and it's
available for everyone.
I think it's such good work andI'm so glad for the work that
(39:10):
you're doing.
I'm thankful for your yes andfor the work that you're doing
because I know that you'rehelping so many.
For listeners who might bethinking you know I could
probably benefit from an Unboundsession, I know you mentioned
the book Unbound.
I've read it.
It's very helpful.
I do recommend, or you know,anybody who's interested maybe
(39:33):
giving it a quick read.
It's a pretty easy read andyou've explained a lot of it to
some.
You know that'll be familiar tothem, but if they're kind of
thinking, yeah, you know youknow that'll be familiar to them
, but if they're kind ofthinking, yeah, you know Unbound
might be really, really helpfulfor me in my journey toward
freedom, how can they go aboutgetting prayed for so?
Speaker 2 (39:57):
the ministry is called Heart of the Father and
okay, now I don't remember nowif it's com or org, but I did.
We'll have that in the shownotes.
And if you go onto the website,there's tons and tons of
information.
There's information about whatto expect in an Unbound Prayer
Session, and then you go ontolocations.
(40:18):
Right, it's something like Iwant prayer and then you go.
You would look there andthere's locations all around,
actually not just the country,but all around the world.
I was just listening to apodcast and they're going to
Sydney, australia and Ireland.
I don't remember where they'regoing in Ireland, but anyway.
So this is not just a thing forus here in the States, it is
(40:40):
all over the world, and so youcan check out the location and
then, if, hopefully, there's alocation near you and if not,
you might be able to find somegroups that do it virtually.
I have prayed virtually withpeople.
I've prayed over the phone withpeople.
It is not the best way to do it.
(41:00):
However, if you're somewherewhere the nearest place is 500
miles away, then that's a goodoption, you know, so you could
contact your closest place andthey would have prayer ministers
.
What I will say is this Makesure that whomever you're going
to pray with is trained.
Just make sure that whomeveryou're going to pray with is
(41:23):
trained, and that's the mostimportant thing.
And there's also conferencesthat go on.
Again, all of this is on thewebsite.
The Five Keys are on thewebsite.
There's actually even a videoon the website that you don't
watch an entire session, but yousee snippets of it, so that
would give you an idea too.
So I would just say go to thewebsite.
(41:45):
Heart of the Father.
That's going to be the bestplace to find prayer.
And if that is stillproblematic, you can go to my
website and contact me.
Speaker 1 (42:00):
I will do my best to help you as well.
Oh great, Thank you so much,Deanna.
So how do they know if somebodyis trained?
Is that just the best place togo is the website, and that will
get them to somebody who isdefinitely trained instead of
somebody.
That's just like.
I've had this done for me and Iprobably could piecemeal it
together.
Speaker 2 (42:15):
Yeah, I once prayed virtually actually more than
once with this woman in NewJersey, because she found us on
the website and, like ourdiocese, has a phone number that
you can use and you contact andthen they'll set you up, either
in person or, if it's far away,virtually, so if you start
there, that's the best way to doit.
Speaker 1 (42:37):
Okay, perfect.
Thank you so much forclarifying that.
Well, I could talk to you aboutthis all day long, but you know
we have limited time.
I'm sure people are wonderingwhere they can learn more about
you.
I get asked all the time aboutwhere can I find a spiritual
director, and all kinds ofquestions like that.
So if you could just let peopleknow where they can find you
(43:00):
and if you have anything elseyou want to share.
Again, like you were saying,I'll have all of this in the
show notes, so just to make iteasy for people.
Speaker 2 (43:09):
So I have a website.
It's called livenotlookwarmcom,and if you go there, you can
sign up for a video series onhow to pray with scripture.
I have a very brief.
Actually, I have to do that.
It's Thursday today.
Three on Thursday.
I send out three little tidbitsevery Thursday, just things
that I find of interest in, ofcourse, related to the spiritual
(43:31):
life, spiritual direction,prayer, that kind of thing, and
Instagram is also a fun place,and that's it.
I feel like I'm gonna be suckedinto.
Did I just say that Substackbecause people are following me?
I don't have a substack, butpeople are following me, so now
I'm thinking do I need to startwriting over there?
But time will tell.
LiveNotLukewarmcom is the bestplace you can find out about
(43:53):
spiritual direction.
If you want to have me come andspeak in your parish, I would
love to do that, so that's thebest place you can contact me
through there or Instagram.
I think I have a Facebook page.
Speaker 1 (44:10):
I gave you all those links, but that's the easiest
place.
Great, that's awesome.
Yeah, I'll have all of that inthe show notes.
So thank you so much for justall this wealth of information,
this hope that I know thatyou've given to so many people
who have felt very burdened bythings from their past or not
really sure how to kind ofuntangle themselves from past
(44:31):
things and trauma and all ofthat, and you've just been so,
so helpful.
So thank you so much for beinghere.
Speaker 2 (44:39):
You are very welcome and thank you for your ministry
and for your work, because it isvery much needed and I'm happy
to see Catholics moving intothis work, because just because
you're Catholic doesn't mean youdon't have problems.
We live in the world.
This is evidence, right thework that both of us do is
(45:01):
evidence of that.
So you know, thank you, and Ihope to have another
conversation another time,hopefully about something else.
Speaker 1 (45:09):
Absolutely.
I would love that, right.
Thank you so much.
You're very welcome.
Well, that does it for thisepisode of the Catholic Sobriety
Podcast.
I hope you enjoyed this episodeand I would invite you to share
it with a friend, who mightalso get value from it as well,
and make sure you subscribe soyou don't miss a thing.
(45:29):
I am the Catholic SobrietyCoach, and if you would like to
learn how to work with me orlearn more about the coaching
that I offer, visit my website,thecatholicsobrietycoachcom.
Follow me on Instagram at theCatholic Sobriety Coach.
I look forward to speaking toyou next time and remember I am
(45:55):
here for you.
I am praying for you.
You are not alone.
Welcome to the Catholic Sobriety Podcast, the
go-to resource for women seekingto have a deeper understanding
of the role alcohol plays intheir lives, women who are
looking to drink less or not atall for any reason.
I am your host, christi Walker.
I'm a wife, mom and ajoy-filled Catholic, and I am
(00:27):
the Catholic Sobriety Coach, andI am so glad you're here.
Saint Paul tells us in Romans8-11, if the spirit of the one
who raised Jesus from the deaddwells in you, the one who
raised Christ from the dead willgive life to your immortal
(00:48):
bodies also.
This is exciting news, friends,because it means the Holy
Spirit who resides in you hasthe power, with your permission
and willingness, of course, tobreathe new life into you and
transform you from the insideout.
(01:08):
You have spiritual gifts andthe Lord's grace that can break
chains of all types.
Christ died so that you couldbe free, and believe me when I
say that he wants your freedomeven more than you do, because
he willingly and lovinglysuffered for the cost, wants
your freedom even more than youdo because he willingly and
lovingly suffered for the costof your freedom.
(01:29):
Now, breaking these chains andunbinding ourselves doesn't just
happen.
We have to first admit that wearen't as free as we might like
to admit and then humbly seekthe help that we need, and I
know from my own experience thatthis is not at all easy or
(01:50):
comfortable, but I can tell youthat the reward is great.
I believe that alcohol misuseor any other disordered
attachment is a symptom ofdeeper wounds that need to be
healed, and it's a spiritualbattle.
That's what my guest, deannaBartolini, and I will chat about
(02:12):
today.
Deanna is a certified spiritualdirector, retreat leader,
speaker and writer.
She has served in parishministry as a religious
education director, youthminister, liturgical coordinator
and stewardship director.
In addition to her professionalwork, deanna is an unbound
(02:36):
prayer minister.
Deanna has been married toDeacon John for over 40 years
and they are blessed with fourgrandchildren.
She is also the founder ofLiveNotLukewarmcom.
She writes for CatholicMomcom,diocesancom and Women in the New
(02:58):
Evangelization.
Deanna has also written a Biblestudy.
The Stay Connected Journals forCatholic Women, invite the Holy
Spirit into your Life,contributed to the Catholic Moms
Prayer Companion and digitalministry and leadership in
today's church.
She is a busy lady.
(03:18):
No doubt you can see this fromher intro.
Deanna, welcome.
I am so glad that you're heretoday.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
Thank you so much for inviting me, and I am very
happy to be here with you totalk about one of my favorite
things.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
Yay, I'm so excited to get into this.
Why don't you just go ahead andstart by sharing a little bit
about your work and how you gotstarted?
Speaker 2 (03:45):
Sure, Christy says I'm busy and I am, but
everything is sort of connectedso it's not as hectic as it
could be.
Right, as I've gotten olderI've learned if you kind of put
things that go together together, it's easier than to work on
them because they feed into andoff of each other.
So right now, really thebiggest focus of what I do is
(04:09):
personal spiritual direction.
I work at a local retreatcenter doing weekend retreats
for parishes and I do unboundhealing prayer with people.
Those are my main things that Ido on a regular basis.
And then I do the writing, youknow, as it comes up, as is
necessary, and I enjoy that aswell.
(04:30):
So that's really what I do mostdays, as well as play with my
grandchildren when I have theopportunity.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
That's wonderful, that's always fun.
How old are your grandchildren?
That's wonderful, that's alwaysfun.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
How old are your grandchildren?
Seven five, no, seven five andalmost two is one family, and
then a six-year-old is the other.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
Oh, I love that, so much fun.
So you've been activelyinvolved in Unbound Prayer
Ministry.
I mentioned that in your bioand that's really what I wanted
to focus on today.
That's why I wanted to have youhere.
So for those who are unfamiliarwith what that is, could you go
ahead and explain it and how ithelps people find freedom in
Christ?
Speaker 2 (05:18):
So Unbound is a method of praying to really get
rid of the wounds, the shame,the lies that we carry around
because of the world, pasttrauma, our own, you know
(05:43):
beliefs that we carry aroundthat we've gathered from other
people that are not correct andreally, to sum it up, it's
really the lies of the evil one.
And so in Unbound HealingPrayer we pray one-on-one with
someone who is ready to get ridof all the baggage that they're
carrying around they don't wantanymore.
(06:03):
Really, the guiding verse whenI think about, if I were to
choose a guiding verse which Idid not come up with, unbound,
which we'll talk about that in asecond but is John 10.10.
So it says a thief comes onlyto steal, slaughter and destroy.
I meaning Jesus.
I came so that they might havelife and have it more abundantly
(06:25):
.
We just celebrated theresurrection.
Jesus did not come so we couldbe okay.
So-so he came so that we couldhave a full, abundant, joyful
life, and the world is alwaysready to take that from us right
, to take that from us right.
(06:51):
So the unbound prayer processis a way to get rid of the pain
that we carry around.
I did not form this prayerprocess.
This was at Neil Lozano andwe'll talk about him probably a
little bit later as we go on,but I just want to be clear
about that up front.
And it is Catholic, it isrecognized by the church.
Neil Lozano has presented atthe Vatican I think it was two
summers ago they had a meetingabout all the different people
(07:15):
who do healing and deliveranceministry and priests who are
exorcists.
I am not an exorcist, be clear.
I am not an exorcist.
Only a priest can do that.
It is definitely a legitimate,needed and beautiful ministry of
the church of the world that Ilive in.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
I'm really close to Portland, oregon, and there's
just so many people seeking, andthere's so many people who have
gotten mixed up in things thatthey thought might help them or
heal them or you know whatever,but without knowing they
actually became bound in thingsthat they now need to be freed
of.
So I find this type of work soneeded and so beneficial, so I'm
(08:13):
so glad that you're doing this.
So what actually inspired youto be part of Unbound and how
has it shaped your ministry andyour work as a spiritual
director?
Speaker 2 (08:24):
How has it shaped your ministry and your work as a
spiritual director.
So this was way back in.
I looked it up 2016.
So almost 10 years now I'vebeen involved with Unbound
Ministry and first I had prayermyself because, like everyone, I
was wounded right, and if youlive in the world, you get
wounded again.
So, in order to have my ownpersonal healing.
(08:46):
A friend of mine said to me,hey, have you ever heard of this
Unbound?
And I was like no, I've neverheard of Unbound.
And she was trained.
She was in abortion healingministry and with Project
Rachel's Vineyard, excuse me andso she had come to know about
it through that ministry and soshe was just offering it to me
(09:07):
as a friend.
And so I went through, I readthe first half of Neil's book
you only need to read the firsthalf, because the second half is
different and I read the firsthalf and I really went through
really and made a list of what Iwanted to get rid of and he
(09:27):
guides you through it.
Not that you have to read thebook, you do not have to read
the book, but it is helpful.
So we went and we had prayer andnow I've known this woman a
very long time and when we weredone.
Maybe a couple of days latershe calls me and she's like so
how are you doing?
I said, great.
She said I have something Iwant to talk to you about.
She said did you think theprayer was helpful?
(09:50):
And I was, of course it wasunbelievably helpful.
I feel like, in many ways, adifferent person now.
She said well, how would youlike to do that with other
people?
I thought okay.
I thought okay I mean I'mlaughing now, but eternally
grateful in all honesty and somy diocese put together a group
(10:15):
of people and we got together,I'm going to say for at least
two months, if not a little bitlonger, and I was in the first
cohort of people who weretrained to be unbound prayer
ministers, and then we juststarted working from there.
One of the things about being anunbound prayer minister is the
ability to listen withoutjudgment.
(10:36):
I used to be a youth ministerand you also need to be able to
do that when you're a youthminister, because teenagers come
to you with problems and you'rethinking, oh honey, that's
really not a problem.
And other times they come toyou with very serious, very
serious problems and you can'treact in such a way that makes
them think that they are sowounded or damaged or beyond
(11:01):
help.
Right, you have to react withlove and compassion or at least
neutrality, right, showing youcare without getting emotional
about it.
I think that's really animportant thing.
I care about what the person issaying to me, but I'm not
breaking down into yourhysterical crying.
Right, you have to maintainthat.
And so, since I've started doingUnbound and then when you
(11:27):
become a spiritual director, inthe classes that I took with the
program that I was enrolled inlistening and I'm sure it's
enrolled in all programslistening is a huge focus.
We spent hours every daylistening.
We spent hours every daylistening, and it taught me even
(11:53):
more so to listen withoutjudgment, but with compassion,
with care, with concern, andreally the two things.
They work well together.
Even though I mean I certainlydon't pray unbound with every
single person who comes to mefor spiritual direction.
You know we focus on spiritualdirection, but it does help you
understand the pain that peoplecarry and how God so wants to
(12:16):
heal us of all that we arecarrying around and wants us to
know who he is.
And so I think those two thingsdefinitely come together in
both unbound and in spiritualdirection.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
Yeah, I can see how those would go so well together
and it kind of goes with thework that I do, because I see,
like I said in the beginning inthe intro, the misuse of alcohol
or really any substance orobject or anything.
It really isn't that thing.
I mean, yes, there are somescience things with alcohol and
(12:54):
how it affects our brains andall of that, but it comes down
oftentimes to just trying toheal ourselves, trying to numb
ourselves, trying to cover upthat trauma or heal wounds or
something.
So in your experience, ifyou've had experience with this,
have you been able to helppeople recognize this, like
(13:17):
maybe their misuse of something,whether it's food or alcohol or
whatever and how that isrelated maybe to a wound that
needs healed through thisunbound prayer?
Speaker 2 (13:33):
So I would say that, in general, by the time people
come to Unbound Prayer, mostlythey are aware of what they have
been doing and what they wantto get rid of or to stop doing.
And in the conversation thenyou listen to their story and
(13:53):
you hear where something mayhave been triggered and began,
and so then you pray againstthat lie or against that spirit.
Right, like you mentioned, youknow people searching for things
outside of you know our faith.
The occult is very big.
When I was a kid, you could buya Ouija board at Toys R Us.
(14:17):
None of us really thoughtanything about Ouija boards, but
they are not of God anddepending on you, on your
personality, on the openness ofwhat you take in right, then it
could be a problem for you.
So it's the same way.
(14:37):
You know, I can have a glass ofwine and I'm fine.
I don't need to have 10 glassesof wine.
So why is that okay for me andnot okay for someone else?
What does the wine do forsomeone who needs to have 10
glasses or who's an addict?
Right, it does something.
It's escaping, trying to getrid of our wounds in ways that
(15:01):
are really only adding to thepain, and then the more you are
open to the presence of evil, itcan attach itself to you.
And I'm not talking about greenvomit and spinning heads, we're
not talking about that.
(15:21):
We're just talking aboutordinary people who walk around,
unable to function, sometimesin everyday life, to mask their
or cover their anxiety withsubstances.
All of this and so Unbound.
Really, by the time someone, Ithink, comes, they know what the
(15:44):
problem is.
And if they don't know what theproblem is, often in the
conversation of them tellingtheir story, it will come out.
Worry, it will come out.
(16:04):
One of the things with Unboundis that it is a relatively
contained and short process.
It's not counseling.
You don't go to Unbound likefive times in a month.
It doesn't mean you can't haveUnbound prayer more than once.
I've had Unbound prayer morethan once because you know life
happens and things change andyou need to get rid of things.
But in general you talk aboutwhat is going on in that
(16:26):
person's soul that they want toget rid of, what is bringing
them to you.
So oftentimes they know aheadof time.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
That was really really helpful.
Thank you for that.
Now know ahead of time, thatwas really really helpful.
Thank you for that.
Now I think maybe people mightbe wondering a little bit about
what happens, because that canbe another thing, it's like yeah
that sounds great, but whatexactly does this entail?
Can you kind of break that downfor us?
Speaker 2 (16:52):
Yes, so typically we will see people and pray with
people who have contacted us.
So they've either been told bya friend or maybe they've seen
Neil's book and they've read it,or they've listened to his
podcast and they think, ok, well, I want this and we'll provide
those links in the show notes tothe website where you can find
(17:13):
people who are in yourgeographic area.
Basically, people come becausemany times they've done lots of
things, they've gone toconfession numerous times and
confessed the same sin.
They're in counseling.
Sometimes a priest willrecommend that they come to us
and pray with us.
The prayer process works likethis in general you will pray
with two people the main personthat you are praying with and
(17:36):
then the intercessor.
Two people the main person thatyou are praying with and then
the intercessor.
The intercessor is there andthe intercessor is basically
quiet and is praying for theperson as they're speaking and
then for the prayer process.
Okay, so the first part of itis we always open in prayer and
then I listen to the person'sstory.
I might jot down some notes.
(17:57):
If they have specificincidences that they talk about,
write down specific names orthings that they really feel
strongly that harmed them, thatthey want to get rid of.
So we talk about all of thatand then there are five keys.
And again, this is I did notmake this up and it's important
(18:18):
that we don't like freewheelthis we are led by the Holy
Spirit.
I am a conduit.
I don't do anything in the nameof Deanna, it is all in the
name of Jesus.
We follow the process becausethat helps guide us so that
we're not off doing whateverpeople think they should be
doing.
So the first key is repentanceand faith.
(18:41):
So the person asks, saysthey're sorry, they give an
assent of faith that they wantto enter into this, and then by
now we've heard the person'sstory and we go to the second
key, which is forgiveness.
So who do we want to forgive?
So oftentimes people harm usand they don't know it, or they
(19:08):
do know it and don't care.
And so we're not saying thatwe're going to forgive people
and then go back to them, butwe're going to forgive them this
way.
That hold that they had on usgoes away.
Forgive people and then go backto them, but we're going to
forgive them this way that holdthat they had on us goes away,
and then oftentimes we have toforgive ourselves, because we
are really good at holding on tothings ourselves, even things
(19:28):
that we've confessed, thingsthat we didn't do on purpose,
whatever it is, so we canforgive ourselves as well.
Then the next key are the lies,the enemies, to renounce.
And again, in the name of Jesus, I renounce the lie that I am
not good enough.
In the name of Jesus, Irenounce the lie that I am not
(19:49):
smart enough.
Whatever the lie is, whateverthat has attached itself to us
because of our story, because ofour life, that has attached
itself to us because of ourstory, because of our life, our
history, whatever has happenedto us.
We also have some specificthings that we do in the case of
a cult, just a very specificprayer that we pray, anything
(20:12):
that has attached itself throughthat to us, so from tarot cards
, psychics, ouija boards, thatkind of thing, thing.
And then the fourth key is theword of command.
And so then, at the word ofcommand, the person who is
telling their story is quiet andthe person who is praying gives
the word of command to takeeverything that the person has
renounced, all the lies, all thespirits, and we send them to
(20:35):
jesus and Jesus deals with them,because that's what Jesus does.
He deals with all the lies, hestands against the evil one.
And then there's like prayersof thanksgiving.
We give some thanks and praiseto God for what he has done, and
then the last key is theFather's blessing.
And at that point, oftentimes,depending on where you are, it
(20:57):
may look a little differently,but we always ask for permission
.
I put my hand on the person'sshoulder and the intercessor
same thing, and we will pray theFather's blessing over the
person.
And that's the process.
And every prayer time is alittle bit different and for
(21:19):
some people there is animmediate sense of relief and
for sometimes, for other people,it takes time.
God works in his time.
Then we also tell people how tohold on to that freedom.
And that's the point of theFather's blessing, because we're
going to empty out the garbageright, we just empty out
(21:39):
everything, and now it has to befilled with something good.
You know, it's like when you goto the dentist.
He takes out the cavity andthen he fills it with whatever
he fills it with.
And we do the same thing we getrid of the lies of the evil one
and we fill it with theFather's blessing.
That's the process.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
That's so helpful.
Thank you so much for goingthrough that process.
It kind of demystifies it alittle bit and makes it a little
less scary and I reallyappreciate the fact that it
follows you know, like peoplecan't just get all willy nilly
and get off on a tangent Like itfollows an actual process that
(22:22):
is going to help guide theperson through that unbound
prayer.
When you were talking, itreminded me of an image that I
had had before when thinkingabout you know, kind of those
strongholds that the evil onehas on us as being like little
strings on us.
You know kind of thosestrongholds that the evil one
has on us as being like littlestrings on us, you know, and
some of them are a littletighter, some of them are a
(22:43):
little bigger, some of them aresmall, like little dental floss
or something on that wholedentist line.
But you know, and then as youdo this unbound prayer, or you
break those strongholds, you'rejust kind of getting rid of
those, you're cutting those awayand some of them, like you were
saying, it may take anothersession or it just may take.
(23:09):
You know, continuing to praylike more Lord, like I am
seeking this freedom and justgiving him your willingness over
and over again.
So is there a follow up?
Like, let's say, somebody goesthrough an unbound prayer
session.
They're like I don't feelanything, which I can't imagine
(23:29):
would happen, but I'm sure itdoes.
You know, they're like I don'tfeel anything.
Is there follow up, or arethere other things that you ask
them to continue doing?
And is there a certain amountof time?
Like, let's say, they gothrough it and they want to do
it again.
Like, should they wait acertain amount of time before
they go for another session?
Speaker 2 (23:49):
There's no hard and fast rule on the waiting.
We've never I mean I don'tthink we've ever had anyone sort
of say okay, well, let's makean appointment now for next week
.
That's never happened to me,Right, and I think it would
depend.
And sometimes, if people have alot of trauma, we might say up
front you know, this might taketwo times and so it might be.
(24:13):
We do what comes up today andthen you wait and see how you
feel, Because when you get ridof things, it can be tiring
because it's very, it can bevery emotional.
One of the things is when peoplecome and they tell their story.
It's their story.
I do not ask a lot of questions.
(24:34):
They give the details that theywant to give.
There's no digging.
We don't dig right.
I am not a therapist, I am nota counselor.
(24:54):
I am a woman who firmlybelieves that God can heal us.
But it's not up to me, it's up,it's him, it's totally him.
And so we don't really, wedon't really put like
constraints on that part of it.
When can you come back again?
Like you're not going to comeback tomorrow.
You need to let things settle,you know.
And then as far as instructions,so we have like some little
(25:19):
information that we give people,but also we encourage people in
their own prayer they can outloud say, in the name of jesus,
I renounce anxiety.
In the name of jesus, Irenounce fear.
In the name of jesus, Irenounce the lie that I'm gonna
have a fight with my brotherwhen he comes over.
You know whatever it is rightand then, when you're done, you
(25:43):
give the same, the word ofcommand, so you can do that
yourself.
I don't think it's helpful and Iwould not recommend that you do
your whole life by yourself,Because you know we are meant to
be with other people, we aremeant to help each other and you
know if God is Father, Son andSpirit, a trinity, a community,
(26:07):
we need to be in community to dothat as well, and so that's
what we recommend.
The other thing we recommend,depending on, again, on the
situation.
Maybe the person would benefitfrom confession, Maybe the
person would benefit fromspending an hour in adoration a
couple of times in a month oronce a week or something.
So it just depends on thesituation what we ask or suggest
(26:28):
for people to do.
It just depends.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
Yeah, because, like you said, everybody's different,
everybody's level of trauma orneed for healing is going to be
different, so I could completelysee how that would be the case.
So would you be able to sharelike an example or testimony
from your ministry of someonewho you witnessed have like a
(26:52):
profound transformation throughUnbound Prayer?
Like a profound transformationthrough Unbound Prayer?
Speaker 2 (26:58):
So it's hard to say transformation, because
oftentimes, most times reallypeople come to us, we pray with
them and we rarely see themagain, which is interesting,
right, because you think, well,how do I know what I did worked,
and there's that huge level oftrust in the work of God, of the
(27:21):
Holy Spirit, to say, okay, Idid my part with his help, yes,
and now I let there, you go.
But I will say that one of themost profound experiences that I
had with praying with someoneshe could have been my mother
and she came in and this was ata conference and so we had
(27:48):
limited amount of time.
It was not normally, whensomeone makes an appointment, it
can go between an hour to anhour and a half.
This was going to be short, sopeople would come and talk about
just about one thing that wasreally bothering them.
Whatever happened, we were ableto take more time with this
woman and she starts goingthrough her story and she's
(28:09):
telling us lots of differentthings and I don't want to give
too many details, but she hadlived her life for others Nurse,
foster mom, had her ownchildren, so forth, so on and
we're going through the prayerprocess and we pause every now
and again.
How are you feeling?
Is anything coming up?
(28:30):
And this is good.
I feel so much better, I'm gladI let that go, this sorts of
thing, right.
We get to the end and she saysthis was beautiful, but there's
still something.
And I said, okay, I'll stop andwe're going to ask for the Holy
Spirit to just illuminate thissituation.
(28:50):
So we did.
I don't even know how long wewere stopped, for it wasn't very
long and all of a sudden shesays I know what it is.
I said okay.
She said I had an abortion.
Not only had she had anabortion, but she had been raped
and she did not want to havethe abortion.
(29:12):
And I'm not going to give thedate, but I'm going to tell you
that it was before abortion waslegal and it was not in America,
was not in America.
So as I'm listening to her, I'mthinking the absolute horror of
all of that.
So she was young, all of thethings that we imagine right, of
(29:40):
the horror of that type of asituation and injustice upon
injustice.
And so we prayed that and sheleft that room looking like a
different woman.
She was a beautiful woman.
She had hardly any wrinkles.
I was like if I could look likethat when I'm that old, oh my
gosh.
But her whole countenancechanged because she'd been
(30:04):
carrying that around for a long,long, long time, even though
she had children, even thoughshe had foster children she had
adopted, like all of thosethings didn't matter, the evil
one kept poking her in that spot.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
He does that, and sometimes we don't even realize
it.
Or like she probably thought,well, this happened so long ago,
it's not even affecting me nowbecause I've already.
I've done all of these things.
I think that's what happenswith, like forgiveness.
Sometimes we can think, well,I've already forgiven that
person.
But you know, sometimes we needto forgive over and over and
(30:43):
over again and re-forgive, andwe have to do that with
ourselves too, right?
So it can be something wheremaybe you don't notice it, like
on the forefront of your everyday, or that type of thing.
But that is what is so powerfulabout prayer ministry, like
(31:04):
Unbound is that Jesus isrevealing that to the person.
Right, jesus brings that tomind, like this needs the
hearing, and like for her not tocome in and be like, well, this
is what it is, but that it wasrevealed later.
That just shows it wasn'tpreconceived, it wasn't anything
(31:26):
.
That was such a beautifultestimony, just highlighting the
fact that when you go intothese sessions, sometimes people
will have something in theirmind, but then Jesus reveals
something else, and I think thatthat is so powerful because
Jesus knows what we need most.
(31:46):
And the other thing that you'vementioned and you mentioned it
before when we talked, was thatit's so important to remember
that, even though the evil onegets these permissions or
footholds on us, is able toplace those little ropes around
our wrists and keep us stuck.
Jesus is far more powerful andhis power can release you, and
(32:13):
that's what I love about it aswell, and I love that you had
mentioned that before when wewere talking.
Speaker 2 (32:20):
I think it's really important.
I think, too, in school therewas this phrase that was used
repeatedly, and I think it'sreally important.
I think, too, in school therewas this phrase that was used
repeatedly, and I think it's sotrue.
Jesus reveals to heal the evilone.
He's all about shame.
Jesus reveals to heal point ofUnbound right is that I don't go
(32:48):
in there deciding what you need.
You tell me, you tell theprayer ministers and they listen
to you, which, again, is such arare thing in this day and age.
We don't do a very good joboften of listening to each other
.
You know, I have my thoughts ofwhat you need and let me just
tell you what you need.
Well, no, you're going to tellme what you need and sometimes,
(33:08):
if people have a lot of traumaand oftentimes with trauma,
they've tried to talk to peopleand they get sort of oh well,
let me tell you how bad my lifewas.
Right, oh, that doesn't soundso terrible.
Oh, come on, don't be such ababy.
Oh, my gosh, really, it's likethings you never say Right,
(33:31):
right, and so you want to havethat trust.
That that's why we don't digRight, that's why we listen and
we might ask for clarification,but we don't keep going and
going to the point that theperson you know feels ashamed.
We don't want to do that.
(33:52):
You know you want to heal the.
Let the healing happen fromwhatever is going on in the
person's life and it's not ourdecision.
How bad they felt Right, sothat all comes into play there.
Speaker 1 (34:07):
Yeah, yeah, that's absolutely true.
I really I love the emphasis onlistening because, like you
were saying, it's something thatwe don't receive very often.
People, you know, a lot oftimes we listen to respond, we
don't listen to hear, and that'sso much of, I'm sure, the work
(34:27):
I know the work that you know alot of times we listen to
respond, we don't listen to hear, and that's so much of, I'm
sure, the work I know the workthat you do as a spiritual
director, as a coach.
That's what we're trained to dois just to listen and ask
questions, because from aspiritual aspect, just like with
the unbound prayer, you knowthings are revealed.
The Holy Spirit is working inus, jesus is revealing things,
(34:50):
and the same is true likethrough spiritual direction,
coaching, counseling and thosetypes of things like Christian
counseling reveal things to usthat you know we had that answer
all along, or maybe you knowthe Holy Spirit reveals it to us
.
And so, like I can't go to aperson and say, okay, you want
(35:15):
to stop drinking, I need you todo this, I need you to do that.
It's not going to work foreverybody, it's not a
one-size-fits-all approach.
I don't know what their life islike I don't know what is going
to work for them, but they do,even if they don't at the moment
.
That's where listening comes in, because not only am I
(35:36):
listening to them, but when Isay it again to them what they
just said, they're like oh yeah,you know, and it's so beautiful
, that revelation, and so that'swhy it's so important.
Silence is so important.
We don't get enough of thateither, and we can see here that
(35:56):
prayer is so powerful and soimportant in our whole healing
journey.
I also loved that you said inyour story you needed unbound
prayer.
You didn't know that you neededit necessarily, but a friend
reached out to you and you know,I'm sure with the Holy Spirit's
prompting was like, hey, youshould ask Deanna about that,
(36:19):
but then you can take that andallow Jesus to work through you
to heal others.
Right, it's that saying likewounded people, wound people,
healed people, heal people.
And when you've experiencedthat freedom, it's so exciting
because you're so much lighterand you know like maybe every
(36:41):
day isn't perfect, every day isnot going to be perfect, but you
feel so much lighter.
The word unbound is it justreminds me of like Lazarus and
all of his bandages, and youknow you just get unbound,
you're free and you have thisclarity that you wouldn't have
(37:01):
had before, that you wouldn'thave had before, and it allows
us to do hard things or to dothe things that God is asking us
to do.
I feel like we can hear hisvoice more clearly right Once we
kind of clear away thosecobwebs.
Speaker 2 (37:18):
Yeah, when you have this sort of prayer and you have
this space, you start torealize how God works and that
he is working and that he wantsto work with you and through you
.
I think about God is incrediblymerciful.
He is incredibly merciful, andwho am I to not then share that
(37:43):
mercy that he has given me withother people?
That is one of the biggestthings that I feel like with
Unbound Prayer.
There's that opportunity totruly show mercy to people who
feel oftentimes ashamed orembarrassed, or less than
(38:06):
through no fault of their own,and so we are able to be Jesus
in that moment.
I don't think I am Jesus, to beclear, but in that moment we are
ministering to those people.
Just like Jesus sent thedisciples out two by two and he
gave them the power to do things.
We're in the Easter season now.
(38:27):
We're reading Acts, and so wesee what the disciples were able
to do because they moved in thepower of Christ, and when we
step out in that truth and inthat faith, we are able to help
people, and that's so importantand so necessary.
Speaker 1 (38:48):
Yeah, and we need more of that.
So the more people that canexperience this freedom and
healing, the more people will behealed through that and it just
is like a ripple effect that Ithink is so needed and it's
available for everyone.
I think it's such good work andI'm so glad for the work that
(39:10):
you're doing.
I'm thankful for your yes andfor the work that you're doing
because I know that you'rehelping so many.
For listeners who might bethinking you know I could
probably benefit from an Unboundsession, I know you mentioned
the book Unbound.
I've read it.
It's very helpful.
I do recommend, or you know,anybody who's interested maybe
(39:33):
giving it a quick read.
It's a pretty easy read andyou've explained a lot of it to
some.
You know that'll be familiar tothem, but if they're kind of
thinking, yeah, you know youknow that'll be familiar to them
, but if they're kind ofthinking, yeah, you know Unbound
might be really, really helpfulfor me in my journey toward
freedom, how can they go aboutgetting prayed for so?
Speaker 2 (39:57):
the ministry is called Heart of the Father and
okay, now I don't remember nowif it's com or org, but I did.
We'll have that in the shownotes.
And if you go onto the website,there's tons and tons of
information.
There's information about whatto expect in an Unbound Prayer
Session, and then you go ontolocations.
(40:18):
Right, it's something like Iwant prayer and then you go.
You would look there andthere's locations all around,
actually not just the country,but all around the world.
I was just listening to apodcast and they're going to
Sydney, australia and Ireland.
I don't remember where they'regoing in Ireland, but anyway.
So this is not just a thing forus here in the States, it is
(40:40):
all over the world, and so youcan check out the location and
then, if, hopefully, there's alocation near you and if not,
you might be able to find somegroups that do it virtually.
I have prayed virtually withpeople.
I've prayed over the phone withpeople.
It is not the best way to do it.
(41:00):
However, if you're somewherewhere the nearest place is 500
miles away, then that's a goodoption, you know, so you could
contact your closest place andthey would have prayer ministers
.
What I will say is this Makesure that whomever you're going
to pray with is trained.
Just make sure that whomeveryou're going to pray with is
(41:23):
trained, and that's the mostimportant thing.
And there's also conferencesthat go on.
Again, all of this is on thewebsite.
The Five Keys are on thewebsite.
There's actually even a videoon the website that you don't
watch an entire session, but yousee snippets of it, so that
would give you an idea too.
So I would just say go to thewebsite.
(41:45):
Heart of the Father.
That's going to be the bestplace to find prayer.
And if that is stillproblematic, you can go to my
website and contact me.
Speaker 1 (42:00):
I will do my best to help you as well.
Oh great, Thank you so much,Deanna.
So how do they know if somebodyis trained?
Is that just the best place togo is the website, and that will
get them to somebody who isdefinitely trained instead of
somebody.
That's just like.
I've had this done for me and Iprobably could piecemeal it
together.
Speaker 2 (42:15):
Yeah, I once prayed virtually actually more than
once with this woman in NewJersey, because she found us on
the website and, like ourdiocese, has a phone number that
you can use and you contact andthen they'll set you up, either
in person or, if it's far away,virtually, so if you start
there, that's the best way to doit.
Speaker 1 (42:37):
Okay, perfect.
Thank you so much forclarifying that.
Well, I could talk to you aboutthis all day long, but you know
we have limited time.
I'm sure people are wonderingwhere they can learn more about
you.
I get asked all the time aboutwhere can I find a spiritual
director, and all kinds ofquestions like that.
So if you could just let peopleknow where they can find you
(43:00):
and if you have anything elseyou want to share.
Again, like you were saying,I'll have all of this in the
show notes, so just to make iteasy for people.
Speaker 2 (43:09):
So I have a website.
It's called livenotlookwarmcom,and if you go there, you can
sign up for a video series onhow to pray with scripture.
I have a very brief.
Actually, I have to do that.
It's Thursday today.
Three on Thursday.
I send out three little tidbitsevery Thursday, just things
that I find of interest in, ofcourse, related to the spiritual
(43:31):
life, spiritual direction,prayer, that kind of thing, and
Instagram is also a fun place,and that's it.
I feel like I'm gonna be suckedinto.
Did I just say that Substackbecause people are following me?
I don't have a substack, butpeople are following me, so now
I'm thinking do I need to startwriting over there?
But time will tell.
LiveNotLukewarmcom is the bestplace you can find out about
(43:53):
spiritual direction.
If you want to have me come andspeak in your parish, I would
love to do that, so that's thebest place you can contact me
through there or Instagram.
I think I have a Facebook page.
Speaker 1 (44:10):
I gave you all those links, but that's the easiest
place.
Great, that's awesome.
Yeah, I'll have all of that inthe show notes.
So thank you so much for justall this wealth of information,
this hope that I know thatyou've given to so many people
who have felt very burdened bythings from their past or not
really sure how to kind ofuntangle themselves from past
(44:31):
things and trauma and all ofthat, and you've just been so,
so helpful.
So thank you so much for beinghere.
Speaker 2 (44:39):
You are very welcome and thank you for your ministry
and for your work, because it isvery much needed and I'm happy
to see Catholics moving intothis work, because just because
you're Catholic doesn't mean youdon't have problems.
We live in the world.
This is evidence, right thework that both of us do is
(45:01):
evidence of that.
So you know, thank you, and Ihope to have another
conversation another time,hopefully about something else.
Speaker 1 (45:09):
Absolutely.
I would love that, right.
Thank you so much.
You're very welcome.
Well, that does it for thisepisode of the Catholic Sobriety
Podcast.
I hope you enjoyed this episodeand I would invite you to share
it with a friend, who mightalso get value from it as well,
and make sure you subscribe soyou don't miss a thing.
(45:29):
I am the Catholic SobrietyCoach, and if you would like to
learn how to work with me orlearn more about the coaching
that I offer, visit my website,thecatholicsobrietycoachcom.
Follow me on Instagram at theCatholic Sobriety Coach.
I look forward to speaking toyou next time and remember I am
(45:55):
here for you.
I am praying for you.
You are not alone.
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