January 11, 2024 • 46 mins
Ever wondered why you react the way you do in certain situations or why understanding your husband can sometimes feel like deciphering an ancient language? Join me and my insightful guest, Kylie Hein, as we unravel the mysteries of temperaments in our latest episode.
A certified Catholic coach, Kylie shares her personal transformation and how the temperaments concept offers a blueprint for navigating life's complexities, relationships, and personal growth.
Embark on a journey through the four classic temperaments—choleric, sanguine, melancholic, and phlegmatic—and discover how these traits influence our behaviors and choices. From the 'introverted extrovert' to the 'peace-loving rule-follower', this episode shines a compassionate light on embracing our natural tendencies while striving for virtue. We discuss the delicate interplay between different temperaments in our relationships and how a deeper understanding can lead to enhanced empathy, patience, and self-awareness.
Wrapping up with a special invitation, Kylie shares details about her new workshop designed to help you master maintaining harmonious relationships by better understanding temperaments.
To learn more about Kylie and grab her FREE Download visit:
https://kyliemhein.kartra.com/page/home
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/kyliemhein/
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https://s.metanoiacatholic.com/ofcywtau
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Catholic Subriety Podcast, the
go-to resource for women seekingto have a deeper understanding
of the role alcohol plays intheir lives, women who are
looking to drink less or not atall for any reason.
I am your host, christy Walker.
I'm a wife, mom and a JoyfieldCatholic, and I am the Catholic
(00:23):
Subriety Coach, and I am so gladyou're here.
Have you heard of thetemperaments and wondered what
yours might be?
Or maybe you took atemperaments assessment but
aren't sure how knowing them canbenefit you, your interactions
with others and help you makedecisions in your life?
(00:46):
Well, you are in for a treat,my friends, because today's
guest is Kylie Heine.
Kylie is a heart-centered,faith-filled coach who
understands the multifacetednature of her clients.
With a unique approachencompassing both body and soul,
kylie creates a non-judgmentalspace tailored to individual
(01:09):
goals and identities, providingsupport and encouragement for
clients to stress less, do moreand stay focused on what truly
matters.
She has a wonderful podcastcalled Persistence in Prayer and
Kylie kindly invited me to beon her podcast back in December.
Its episode 37 and the title iswhen Fine Isn't Fine Anymore.
(01:35):
Kylie and I had so much funtalking both before and after
the show and I just had to haveher on my podcast as well and
share her with all of you,because she is just amazing.
So thank you, kylie, for beinghere.
It's so awesome to see youagain.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Oh, thank you for having me.
That was such a kindintroduction and I'm just
excited because we had such agreat conversation and it's
continued off air, so I lovethat we get to share this with
your audience as well as mine.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
I know me too.
I've been looking forward tothis even since we ended our End
of your Podcast, so I wouldlove it if you would just start
us off by telling us a littlebit about yourself and what
brought you to coaching.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Yeah, so my name is Kylie Heine.
I grew up and currently live insmall town, nebraska, with my
incredible husband.
He is like just this powerfulsource of helping me to
recognize all of the ways thatI'm beating myself up all the
time and just bring out hope andjoy in me and my two wonderful
(02:44):
little.
So I have an eight-year-olddaughter and a five-year-old son
.
I am a former teacher and headvolleyball coach turned
certified Catholic coach.
So I was certified throughMetanoia Catholic and that
process and journey has been abeautiful one.
It started with developing myown relationship with God after
(03:05):
I strayed in my late teens,early 20s, I think, like many of
us do, getting caught up insocial norms and what society
tells us is the right way andthe fun way to live versus the
way that God calls us to live.
And really, through someincredible students and people
at the school I was working at,god just kept reaching out to me
(03:26):
again and again and encouragingme to pursue ministry and, in
all my shame, I thought, no way,I'm not doing it and I am not
the right person for thisbecause I am such a mess.
But he's persistent and so Ireally just lit up after my mom
(03:47):
passed away speaking on aretreat, and I knew in that
moment that this is somethingthat I've been created for.
So I continued teaching, Ipursued my master's in ministry
degree but still just felt thistug on my heartstrings to learn
more.
And so I started pursuingspiritual direction, which I'm
(04:08):
in spiritual directioncertification and along the way
I stumbled into coaching and Iwanted to learn how to be a
coach.
I didn't recognize that I neededcoached, which we'll talk about
Demerman's, a very caloric.
So I just didn't recognize thatthis was something that I
needed, and it was so profoundlyimpactful on my life that that
(04:31):
was really the thing that gaveme the courage to step away from
my fear and live out the waythat God was calling me to live,
and that is by leaving myteaching job, taking on coaching
and podcasting full-time.
And really I think my personalmission is to just bring souls
to Christ through prayer, and sothat's what I'm doing through
(04:52):
my coaching, through all of thework that I'm doing is just
every day asking the Lord how doyou want me to live this out?
And so here we are.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
Oh, that is so good.
Thank you so much for sharingthat, and I could just identify
with so so much of your storyand I am so glad that you
mentioned that sometimes thatshame that we feel like from our
past or whatever, can oftenkeep us from pursuing what God
(05:25):
is calling us to do.
We kind of get stuck in thatand feel like who me, god,
you're calling me to, you knowwhat I've done, you know where
I've been, and he's like, yes,exactly, and that is why I need
you to do this work, becausehe's uniquely equipped each and
every one of us.
So that is so inspiring and I'mso thankful that you shared
(05:50):
that as well.
So we are gonna talk abouttemperaments today, so can you
just explain a little bit aboutwhat temperaments are and also
how you use them with yourcoaching clients?
Speaker 2 (06:05):
Yeah, so I'll start with the type of clients that I
typically work with.
You know, as women, life isbusy and it can sometimes feel
like we have a million tabs openin our brain.
So I really help do it all.
Women close down theunnecessary tabs to eliminate
decision fatigue and emotionalfrustration.
So, taking away some of thosethings that can feel
(06:29):
overwhelming when we get anxiousabout what the next step is and
how we're gonna fit everythingin, we're not able to just sit
in the present and have thefreedom to love where we are and
how God is using us in thisordinary, everyday moment, and
it can keep us, like we said,stuck in fear.
So the temperaments are a way toreally help us understand
(06:51):
ourselves and have betterlanguage around the way that we
were created.
They help us to understand ournatural tendencies towards vice
or virtue, but they aren'tsomething that really defines us
.
So, for myself, knowing mytemperament has helped me to
understand again in a healthyway, how I'm naturally wired.
(07:13):
I used to think, oh, this like180 mood swing that I'm having
is just inherited from my dadand I can't fix it and there's
nothing I can do about it.
It was this very fixed mindsetabout the way that I was created
, but through knowing mytemperament and really digging
deeper into this, I now knowthat I can embrace the virtues
of this temperament and I canreally root out the vices and I
(07:36):
can grow in the virtues of someof the other temperaments.
It isn't a fixed thing, and itopened me up to this new world
of freedom, of recognizing whatmy ideal conditions are, these
things that fill me and thesethings that I needed my life, so
that I don't feel frustratedand overwhelmed, because we know
that our actions, the way thatwe respond to things, they're
(07:58):
often carried out due to ouremotions, and those emotions
hinge on thoughts that we'rehaving.
But for most of us, we don'tknow how to slow our brains down
in the moment to figure out,okay, what thought triggered me
to eat this food or drink thisthing.
We just kind of react.
But when we have language andwe understand ourselves more
(08:20):
fully, we know what to look forahead of time and our brains are
more easily able to identify inthe moment what is going on, so
that we can make better choices.
And so that's something that Ireally help clients to do is to
understand how they are wired,and this has profoundly helped
(08:41):
them in their relationships Ihear there's a lot of
relationships with their spousesand also relationships with
their children, and so when weunderstand that our brains work
a certain way and other people'swork a different way, we are
more loving and morecompassionate and more gentle in
our approach and we also areable to ask others for what we
(09:05):
need.
I think that's something thatwe don't do because we don't
know what we need.
Someone might ask us like whatdo you need?
Well, I don't know.
Now we know.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
I loved when you said decision fatigue, because
sometimes at the end of the dayI just feel so just like spent
and it's really difficult tokind of pinpoint what that is.
But the term decision fatigue itjust like was a light bulb to
me.
Like, yeah, I make a ton ofdecisions all day, every day,
and as moms we not only have tokeep track of our schedules but
(09:38):
like our kids' schedules andtheir stuff and our stuff and
all the things.
And it's such a blessing to bein this vocation.
But yet we have to learn waysto take care of ourselves so
that we don't turn to thingslike over consumption of alcohol
(10:00):
, food scrolling and all thosethings which inherently are not
necessarily bad.
It's just that we are not usingthem always in the way that
they were intended for us.
And what I love about thetemperaments is how you are
saying that they're not fixed.
But that brought a question tomy mind are we born with a
(10:23):
certain temperament, or is itsomething that is developed just
based on, based on ourenvironment and interactions
that we have with other people?
And then could someone like me,who's a sanguine, ever change
into like a cleric or somethingelse as I get older?
Speaker 2 (10:44):
Yeah.
So this is the next question.
So I love the way that ClaireDwyer explains this.
She says all the graces that weare given through prayer and
the sacraments and the generousoutpouring of a loving God act
upon the raw material of ournature.
Understanding that natureallows us to be more supple to
the work of God as he perfectsit and more loving towards those
(11:05):
around us who are also works inprogress.
So what all of that means isthat we are given this raw
material at birth, the way thatwe were created.
The raw material is our naturaltemperament, which is really
the way that we respond tosomething.
So we each have a predominanttemperament and I'll explain
(11:27):
what the temperaments are.
I'll break them down into thefour categories.
Our predominant temperament ismost easily identified when we
are kids, because this is whenit's just naturally gonna come
out.
Over time we can grow in thevirtues of other temperaments.
So if we were to look at asaint in their adulthood, at the
(11:47):
end of their life, we may notknow what temperament they were,
because they have so evenlybalanced out through the work
that they have put in and theirgrowth in the graces and
receiving the graces that Godhas given them to grow in virtue
, to kind of even these all out.
Jesus was the perfectculmination of all of the
(12:08):
virtues.
The rest of us we have all fourtemperaments, but we don't have
them in the same amounts.
So, to answer your question, wewill each have one that is
predominant.
We typically have a secondarythat is fairly high as well, and
then the other two are gonnafall behind.
Now if you were to take atemperaments assessment and
(12:30):
you're like man these are bothreally close but they're
opposing temperaments somepeople would say that that's
like something is mentally off,like that's not possible.
But really it's most likelythat you're getting those
results because you areanswering based on strategies
that you've taught yourself touse to cope with a deficit, and
(12:51):
so they might come up higher,for example, a caloric and a
phlegmatic or opposingtemperament.
So it wouldn't be likely thatyou would have both of those
really really high.
But if you do, it could likelybe because you have just trained
yourself to respond differentlyin different situations.
So I'll just break down reallyquick the four temperaments for
(13:15):
anyone who is not familiar withthem.
There are all kinds ofpersonality assessments that are
out there.
I love the temperaments becauseit's very simple.
There's only four of them, andwe know that our God is a God of
order and not of chaos, so hehas given us these patterns to
recognize where we fall andwhere we land, and also, this
(13:37):
particular assessment is very inline with church teaching, and
there are some out there thatare not, that are kind of new
age, or they call on differentthings that don't align with our
faith, and so I love that aboutthe temperaments.
The easiest way to break thesedown is based on your response
time.
So a caloric is someone who isquick to react and slow to move
(13:59):
on.
They are strong leaders,they're passionate, they're
decisive.
One of their vices, though, isthat they're really prone to
anger, and I can dig deeper intothese as we go, but I'll just
do like really short overview,okay.
So if we're thinking of strongcaloric, we might think of
someone like Saint Paul or SaintIgnatius of Loyola, like these
(14:19):
fierce leaders, saint Francis deSales, but they're also going
to be more prone to anger intheir youth.
If we were to look at them, areally strong caloric if you
ever watched the movie Friends,it would be Monica.
Monica would be like thecaloric Sanguines.
These are people who are quickto react, but they're also
(14:41):
really quick to move on Likethey are not going to hold a
grudge.
Obedience comes really easy tothem.
They're talkative, they'reoutgoing, they're friendly, but
they also can fall into beingvery impulsive.
They're very ruled by theiremotions or things that are
comfortable.
They don't want to do thingsthat are really hard.
They don't have a greatattention span, but they love
(15:03):
fun.
They love fun, they lovecreativity, they love community.
So if we were thinking ofsaints Saint Peter, saint Teresa
of Avila, saint Rose of Limathese are going to be some of
our sanguine saints.
The melancholic this is anintroverted temperament.
(15:25):
So the first two areextroverted, introverted
Melancholics are slow to react,but they are not going to forget
soon.
They're going to let this thinglinger for a while.
They're your very deep thinkers.
They're your perfectionists.
They want the details.
They're going to be the personasking all of the questions.
Sometimes, due to their nature,they can be overly worrisome.
(15:47):
They can tend to procrastinate,but they make really great
friends Like to have amelancholic friend is really
great, because they value deepand meaningful conversations.
These are not going to be yoursurface level people.
They want to go deep.
One of their biggest faults,though, is that they can tend
toward ruminating thoughts orover perfection, and they are
(16:11):
very harsh on themselves.
So they have a very high levelof mortification, but they are
very, very hard on themselvesand can kind of tear themselves
down if something doesn't goright.
They would be the people whowould tend towards screwbulosity
most likely.
So well-known melancholicswould be St Teresa Benedicta of
(16:33):
the Cross is believed to havebeen melancholic.
Moses in the Bible, st Bernardof Clairvaux and St Teresa of
Lissue was also a melancholic.
So I think of Ross from Friendsagain the Friends reference or
Eeyore from Winnie the Pooh.
Yeah, and then we have thephlegmatics.
This is our last introvertedtemperament.
These people are slow to react.
(16:55):
They're quick to move on.
They are balanced people.
They are the peacemakers.
They don't want to rufflefeathers.
They are amazing to have in theroom with choleraics.
We need them.
They remain cool under pressure.
They're not overly motivated ontheir own, but they can be
(17:15):
motivated by others.
They're very dependable.
They're very loyal.
They like structure.
They like simplicity.
They can struggle with settingboundaries because they are
extreme people pleasersSometimes can appear lazy, but
really they're just very laidback and they're good at finding
the easy way to do something.
Phlegmatics the most well knownis probably St Thomas Aquinas
(17:41):
or, if we're looking at theBible, abraham would be
phlegmatic.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
Wow, that is so fascinating.
I'm like, as you're listing allthese things I'm like thinking
of, like my family members andmy husband and myself and so
like as I was telling youearlier.
So I took the temperamentsassessment and I got 87%
(18:07):
sanguine and even though so, andthen I had told you that I got
70% caloric and flagmatic, which, like you are saying, is
opposing, and then 53%melancholic.
I could, when you said that thethat you can tell your main
(18:29):
temperament more by looking atwho you were when you were
younger, I can completely seethat like I was a total sanguine
most of the time.
I like to tell people I'm anintroverted, extrovert, like I
can talk to anyone anytime,anywhere and I'm always up for
you know, like an adventure andstuff, but I really love being
at home, I'm a homebody andenjoy just like being with my
(18:52):
family and stuff too.
So I do have like opposing,like personality traits, but I
can see how that was maybe notwho I was at the beginning and
it was something learned justfrom environment or experiences
and things like that.
And then also, knowing myhusband is caloric, melancholic,
(19:16):
like for sure, like there's noquestion, as you are like saying
that, and it does help, I think, to know the temperaments of
others, because then I can,instead of looking at him like
why aren't you like sospontaneous and want to go do
this thing?
That I think is amazing, andI'm trying to talk you into it
(19:37):
and he's like no, I really hadthis plan to do.
Blah, blah, blah.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
And this is what we're doing.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
I can be more understanding of, like, where
he's coming from, I think,knowing a little more about his
temperament.
So I can definitely see howknowing both your temperament
and your spouse especially, itcould be extremely helpful, but
then also knowing thetemperaments of your kids as
(20:06):
well.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
Yeah, and especially as you break these down even
more into where the strengthsand the weaknesses lie.
So sometimes you'll take thishusband.
For me, caloric shows up as myhighest sing when in melancholic
are very, very close following.
But when I look at it, a lot ofmy strengths are in caloric but
my weaknesses show up in thesanguine and that's why sanguine
(20:30):
is so high.
So the sanguine kind of I don'twant to call them negatives,
but the things that areas I canwork on being forgetful, easily
distracted, being led by myemotions or making impulsive
decisions based on momentaryfeelings those are areas where
(20:51):
I'm like okay, this is where Ican improve and I can work on.
But it's different for everyone.
So someone else might have thesame top two but it might be
flipped.
So it's really just getting toknow these different
characteristics and theassessment that you're talking
about.
Just to your listeners know,this is the one that's put out
(21:11):
by Metinway, a Catholic.
I'm certified through them.
There are differenttemperaments assessments.
I'm prone to this one becauseI've taken several and it seems
to be the most accurate.
But when you do take this, themisconception is that your
percentages will add up to 100%and that's not actually the case
it's just going to give you,the highest percentage is your
(21:35):
dominant temperament, and thenthe second one would be your
secondary temperament.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
Okay, yeah, that's good to know, because I took it
and I was like, what does thismean?
So that is very helpful to knowabout those percentages.
And it kind of does.
As, again, you were talkingabout the different qualities of
each person, it was like, oh,that is why those are such a
high percentage and why they'reso evenly matched and all that.
(22:05):
So it kind of makes sense.
But I think to really grasp theentirety of it, being coached by
someone who is certified isprobably going to really help
you understand thosetemperaments more and how they
relate to your life and how youcan you know the virtues and
(22:27):
vices which I'm going to ask youin just a minute.
But I think working with acoach probably helps you with
that, because then you know whyyou might be held back from
something or fearful, or why youmight be getting these results
that you don't want, becausemaybe you're like me and you're
more impulsive and you know likeforgetful or not organized you
(22:48):
know whatever it happens to be.
So with that, because most ofthe women who are listening to
this podcast are, you know,realizing that maybe alcohol is
becoming a problem for them,could you talk a little bit
about how our temperaments mightdispose us to different vices,
(23:09):
but also virtues, as well,absolutely so.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
If anyone just wants to know, kind of, what are the
vices and virtues, I have a freedownload on my website and it's
if you're familiar with theIgnatian daily exam.
I've kind of broken this down bytemperament, so there's just a
quick little blurb on how topray the exam.
You don't have to utilize itfor that, though.
So there at the top of eachpage for example, the caloric
(23:37):
there's a list of things thatthey are inclined toward
hardness, stubbornness, anger,pride, self-reliance, control,
impatience and then there arealso the opposing virtues that
they could really pray for beingmeek, humble, empathetic,
prudent, detached from outcomesand there's a list of questions
(23:57):
that they can really use toreflect on their day.
So, for example, like Lord, didI make decisions with you today
, or did I make decisions on myown today?
So that's for each temperament.
If you just kind of want tobreak down, if you're a visual
person, that's a free downloadthat you can get, and then I'm
going to go through them andreally talk specifically for
(24:18):
your audience about how this canshow up with the attachment to
drinking.
Perfect, thank you.
So, calerics, some of theirstrengths are these are the type
of people who are going tofigure out a way to do something
without being told.
They're not deterred by hardwork.
They really want to be the bestand they're not going to be
(24:38):
threatened by disagreements.
So if they go to a party andsomeone's like, hey, have a
drink and they've made thedecision not to drink, that's
not really going to sway them.
So that's the beauty of someonewho is caloric and they don't
like to waste time.
So they're going to look for aquick way to fix this attachment
.
If they have it, they're goingto be pretty good at just white
(24:58):
knuckleing it.
The struggle is they aren'tgoing to ask for help if they
need it, and that's really whatthey have to watch out for.
They're going to try to justfind a way to get it done and
they might be might go too farinto something.
So calerics can often reallystruggle with malice because
they want to be the best atsomething and they're just going
(25:18):
to throw themselves entirelyinto it.
They also might struggle withrecognizing that they even have
an a problem or have any kind ofattachment, because calerics
and I am one.
So I can say this we thinkwe're always right.
So if someone tells us that,hey, maybe you should consider
it like, maybe not drinkingthree days a week, I'm gonna be
(25:41):
like I don't have a problem, I'mfine, right?
So, depending on how deep thisattachment is, they may need
help, but it's gonna take somevulnerability for them to really
ask for it.
They're gonna have to tap intotheir motivation for winning or
not wasting time, for reallywanting tangible progress so
that they can allow themselvesto get the help that they need
(26:03):
to create structured goals thatare gonna help them be
successful, because, calerics,they thrive with goals and
deadlines.
These are the things that aregonna keep them moving forward.
They want their freedom tochoose.
So if they're working with acoach, the coach is still gonna
have to let them make theultimate decision, but they do
need help with discernment andjust help with what is success
(26:27):
and maybe redefining that.
So that's where I thinkcoaching is so essential and the
work that you do is soessential is just helping people
to recognize what it is thatthey need and how they can
really rely on their strengthsto move forward.
So that's the caleric.
You can stop me at any point ifyou have questions.
The Sangwin, again, this is ourother extroverted friend.
(26:50):
They work really well on teams.
They need an accountabilitybuddy or multiple buddies,
because again they're gonna beforgetful, like, oh, I made this
plan that I wasn't gonna drink,but I forgot I wasn't gonna
drink and I'm two drinks in.
They're not easily embarrassed.
They love to make things funand they're very self-assured
(27:13):
and confident, which is a greattrait of a Sangwin.
They're social people, so ifthey're in social situations,
they're going to wanna fit inwith the social situation.
So if everyone around them isdrinking, they may feel like
they should be drinking,especially if they think it's
gonna make them more fun.
So that's just something toreally be aware of.
(27:35):
Sangwins are highly creative,so I think that they can really
lean into this.
If I'm making a mocktail and Ican put the pretty umbrella in,
or I can make it fun, or I canget creative with coming up with
new names for new mocktaildrinks.
That's something where theymight really just be able to
lean in or other ways they wannahave recognition for, like I
(28:03):
said, just making things fun foreveryone else, and so if they
can inspire others to not drink,for example, if they can be the
inspiration for someone else tonot drink that's also something
that they could really tap intoand lean on.
Sangwins may also need visualreminders, so if that's a sticky
note on their very each morningright out of sight, out of mind
(28:26):
.
I'm gonna forget all the reasons, all the health reasons, why I
said I wasn't gonna drink thisweek.
They thrive with many rewardsoften.
So if they can find little waysto treat themselves like hey, I
didn't drink on Saturday, I onlydrink on Friday, so I'm gonna
reward myself with chocolate orsomething small, and also if
(28:48):
they can really just seek outopportunities to entertain.
Something that's really helpfulI found with my clients is if we
can tap into what we call theirideal conditions and ideal
conditions are things that justkind of fill them up, so I won't
feel the need to reach for adrink if I'm filled through my
(29:09):
other ideal conditions,something as like for Sangwins.
Sometimes it's a stage, it's aplace to perform, it's a place
to excite or entertain others, aplace where they can be liked,
where they can be creative,where they can just problem
solve then they might not be aslikely to lean toward that other
(29:30):
attachment.
So just we know from creatingnew habits that if we can create
these micro habits, like theselittle tiny things, so if they
can already lean into what theynaturally do well and create
this other tiny little habit,that is going to keep them from
negative attachments.
That can be really helpful.
As a Sangwin, do you relate toany of that?
Speaker 1 (29:55):
All of that, yes, yeah, I mean I can totally see
how, like trying to fit in, youknow it wasn't like I wanted
always to go out and party, butonce I did that I really felt
part of something when I was ateenager and that's kind of what
kept me drinking.
But I can also see, like whenyou were talking about the
(30:18):
caloric, how I do wanna getthings figured out quickly so I
was able to get sober when I was23 instead of waiting so many
years, and I so I could identifywith the other temperaments
that have come up in this aswell.
(30:38):
So I think it's good to knowthose because instead of
thinking like, oh well, I won'tbe able to do it because I'm
this, you can say, well, thesetemperaments actually work
together and, as you beautifullyand very thoroughly explain
them, I think people can seewhat those things are that are
(31:02):
helpful in maybe keeping thatother temperament in check when
it gets a little.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
Absolutely.
These are not fixed.
You are not in a box andSangwins do not like to be put
in a box.
Speaker 1 (31:16):
They like to do their own thing.
Yeah, if you tell me somethinghas to be some way, I'm gonna
try to figure out how it doesn'thave to be that way a lot of
times.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
Absolutely.
So then we go to ourintroverted temperaments
Melancholics once they'reconvicted in pursuing a goal,
they're gonna kind of go all in.
They're willing to sacrificetheir comforts if it's for
someone else.
So I think that that'ssomething they can really lean
into.
So if they can recognize thattheir drinking is hurtful or
(31:48):
harmful to the people that theylove and care about, that's
something that they can reallytap into.
And, like I said before, theyhave a high tolerance for
mortification.
So they're not afraid of whatmight feel a little bit painful
in not drinking.
And they're really good atfollowing rules and schedules.
So a lot of times all clientsare like oh, I just can't figure
this out.
(32:08):
Like you are the master atfollowing rules, go back to the
rules that you already have andjust go with that.
It's really helpful formelancholics to understand the
why of something Like I said,why it's not great for my
relationship.
Who am I hurting?
How is this affecting myability to be great?
Because melancholics areperfectionists.
(32:30):
They want everything to beabsolute perfection.
One of the struggles is theydon't like feeling stupid.
They don't like being in asituation where they're gonna
feel dumb.
They can also get reallyoverwhelmed by overstimulation.
So if they're in a groupsetting and it's like I feel
really uncomfortable because I'maround all these people and
(32:50):
there's all these surface levelconversations going on and that
I don't like that chit chatwhere I can't just have, meaning
that I might be more likely toreach for a drink or something
that's going to take me out ofmy discomfort that I am feeling.
Cause that's for a lot of us, Ithink, why, at least for me
(33:11):
personally, I should just saywhy I did reach for a drink,
like I was uncomfortable inthose situations.
Even though my temperament isextroverted, I get very
overstimulated.
Being around a lot of peopleand I am a relator, so I like
small groups, intimateconversation.
Asking me about the weather orsurface level things is just,
(33:34):
it's draining for me and soknowing that, then I can kind of
have a plan, and formelancholic, plans are really
important.
They're the people who are usedto holding everyone else
accountable, right?
So the sanguine needs amelancholic friend to help hold
them accountable.
So this is a place where theymight need someone else to help
(33:56):
them and to recognize that theyneed that.
They need their sanguinefriends to help them realize
that they can't have fun.
Melancholic are very pronetowards sadness and we know that
alcohol is a depressant.
So if they're already feelingkind of sad, already feeling
(34:17):
down, they struggle withrecognizing joy because they're
gonna focus on all of the sorrowaround them.
They're gonna take on otherpeople's sorrow.
This is where surroundingthemselves with other sanguines
is really helpful to help upliftthem and bring them up.
Melancholics really neednon-judgmental compassion.
They need the freedom to beable to cry and to feel their
(34:40):
emotions however they arefeeling them, whereas the same
one is like I want to jump tothe happy feeling, I'm going to
skip over the sad feeling allthe time.
I don't want to feel myfeelings.
Uh, the the melancholic is justgoing to sit and ruminate, and
that is where they really needtheir space.
It's going to be a trigger forthem If someone is trying to
(35:03):
like make them peppy in aninstant.
So they just they need thatfreedom, that time and that
space to really process what itis that they are feeling in the
way that they are feeling it.
Speaker 1 (35:12):
Yeah, I will tell you I, my husband, gets so mad at
me because I'm like, well, lookat the bright side.
And well, at least it's notthis.
And he he's on more than oneoccasion just said can I just be
mad for a minute, like can Ijust be mad and then I'll be
over it.
So I get that that totallyresonates and I'm going to spend
(35:36):
over the years to just let himbe mad for a minute.
But it, my sanguine tendenciescan't help, but just like crop
up.
Speaker 2 (35:43):
You know I have to laugh in relationships because
the sanguine is the person who'sgoing to do something.
Their spouse is going to getirritated and five seconds later
they're going to be like, let'scuddle.
And the spouse, if they're notsaying, they're going to be like
, no, yeah, I'm like, aren't wegood?
We're good, right, yeah, let'stalk about it.
Yeah, yeah, oh.
Speaker 1 (36:08):
So funny, uh, flagmatics so.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
Flagmatics.
Like I said, there arepeacemakers.
They are very low conflict, sothey do not like high tense
Interactions.
If they're around people whoare very loud or overly
emotional, that that can be, um,interiorly disruptive for them.
They really like rules.
They, like I said, can geteasily overwhelmed.
(36:32):
So they do better withstructure and a plan.
They aren't naturally motivated,so they are going to need
encouragement from others, butnot nagging, because the
calerics like to nag them likehey, you're lazy, why aren't you
doing all these things?
And that is not motivating forthem.
That is going to lead them todo the exact opposite.
They want to be invited to givetheir opinion.
(36:55):
They're not because they'reintroverted.
They might want to share, butunless someone asks them to
share, they are not going to.
So they need to be invited andthey need to be encouraged.
Um, so if you know someone who'slike Maddox, who's maybe trying
to drink less and reallyencouraged, then this is going
to be really helpful for them.
They need help with settingboundaries.
(37:17):
So, again, that having a planfor how I'm going to show up,
about how I'm going to say andwhat I'm going to do, uh,
because they're going to want tojust oh, if I say no, then they
might get mad at me and that'suncomfortable, right?
So having clear boundariesestablished is key.
Um, because they are reallygreat at following procedures.
(37:38):
So if you have somethingoutlined for them and it's
really simple, they're going tofollow through with that.
Um, and, like I said, they'realso really loyal.
Uh, if they avoid emotionallycharged situations, that can be
helpful.
And also if they see proof orsuccess like if they can look at
their successes in the past orproof of why something works,
(37:59):
they're going to be more likelyto hang onto that and move
forward.
Yeah, oh, my goodness, that isall so very helpful.
I love how you just laid outboth the pitfalls and the
pitfalls and the pitfalls andthe pitfalls and the pitfalls
and the pitfalls.
Speaker 1 (38:11):
And that is also very helpful.
I love how you just laid outboth the pitfalls that we might
experience based on ourtemperaments, but also how our
temperaments can help us youknow not, or how we can reach
out for help, knowing what ourtemperaments are even I think
that that is brilliant and Ihope that that has been super,
(38:32):
super helpful for those of youwho are listening.
I just the assessment that youwere talking about that I've
taken in that you use is fromMetanoia Catholic and I can
leave a link to that.
Is that the one that you wouldalways recommend?
Speaker 2 (38:51):
that people take.
Yeah, that's the one that Irecommend you can take others.
They might show up a little bitdifferently.
I know I took one and I gotcomplete opposite temperaments
but as I read through them I wasable to recognize that didn't
fit.
So there are other ones outthere, but the Metanoia Catholic
one is free.
So also, just if you listen,you a lot of people can usually
(39:11):
identify kind of what they thinktheir temperament is.
So as you listen to that, ifyou kind of resonated with one,
that's likely that's what yourdominant temperament is.
But yeah, I the assessment isfree and I think it's totally
worthwhile just to just to knowand then if you can decide, if
you want to learn more aboutthat.
Speaker 1 (39:33):
Yeah, I think it's fun to to do that and not just
fun, but can be very, veryhelpful and I think that you've
done an excellent job ofexplaining why it would be so.
So, before we close, is thereanything else that we didn't
touch on that you want to talkabout?
Speaker 2 (39:57):
If anyone wants to learn more about their
temperament, so say you.
Go do the Met Noi Catholicassessment.
I'm doing a free workshop atthe end of the month.
I don't have the date finalizedyet, but you can reach out to
me on Instagram at Kylie Imhine,or email info at Kylie
Imhinecom and I'll let you knowthe details or if you want to
(40:19):
get on my list for that.
But what we do in the workshopthis one is really oriented
toward better relationships, butwe'll break down all of these
things that I spouted out arejust the very surface level of
your temperament, and in theworkshop what we actually do is
you get a workbook and we gothrough your contributions, your
(40:41):
weaknesses, your internaltriggers, your external triggers
, and they're laid out in a waythat you can see the outside,
that you can see the othertemperaments as well.
So as you're going through itand you're like, oh, this is me,
but you're curious what yourspouse is or you're curious how
to better relate to yourchildren those types of things
(41:01):
you can also see theirs, and Ithink that that's what really
helps us grow, as much asknowing our own and also just
developing healthy languagearound the way that we were
created because the way that weare created is beautiful and
it's unique and it's individual.
So I think it's really helpfuland we get to go a little deeper
(41:22):
and as thoughts come up, youcan get coach on the thoughts
that you're having or thestruggles.
And at times, if I do aworkshop, I've done some live
workshops and I had a group offlogmatics and their first
reaction was I don't like it, Idon't think this is right.
It sounds like flam.
Ironically, the temperamentshave been around since
(41:44):
pre-Christian, pre-christianity,starting with Hippocrates, and
originally he recognized thatthere was a way that people were
reacting you know certainpatterns and he thought that it
was based on their natural bodyfluid that was most prominent,
so blood or bile or things likethat.
And so flagmatic actually doescome from the word flam, which
(42:08):
is funny.
But now we recognize that it'smore of a different approach.
It's not a bodily approach, butit's very well written on and
explored and so, yeah, I wouldjust encourage anyone who just
wants to know more.
It's a free workshop, there'sno cost.
I'll send out a replay if youcan't make it live, and the
(42:31):
language is just really helpfulto know and understand and you
can use it to help you with anykind of attachment, whether it's
eating, drinking less, whateverit is that you're working
toward right now.
Speaker 1 (42:45):
That is awesome.
I will leave all of thatinformation in the show notes.
That workshop sounds amazing.
And then I want to remind mylisteners about the download the
free download that's on yourwebsite that you talked about
about the daily examin.
That can kind of help you asyou go through your day and it's
based on your temperaments.
(43:06):
And I just want to tell you Iwas reading a book by, like,
annie Bronte, the tenant ofWinfield Hall, and they were
talking like the author noted,like personality, because of his
singuine personality or becauseof his, yes.
So when you just said, you know, sometimes we think like these
(43:28):
assessments and things are sonew, but they're they've been
around forever, like you werejust saying, even pre
Christianity, which is crazy.
But I realized that as I wasreading that very old classic
book, I was like, oh, that's sointeresting.
So I'm glad that you mentionedthat, because I was like when I
was reading it, I'm like I needto tell Kylie that.
(43:49):
But, yes, I forgot until youmentioned it.
Because because I forget.
Thanks.
Speaker 2 (43:53):
And I will add the people who said I'm not like
medic.
I think that's wrong.
We got about 10 minutes intothe workshop and they're like
Okay, I take it back.
This is me.
Speaker 1 (44:06):
I totally am.
Yes, that's great.
Yeah, knowing thyself rightAbsolutely Well.
Thank you again so much, kylie.
I feel like I could talk to youfor days, but we can't do that
here, so maybe I'll have youback on another time and for any
(44:28):
of my listeners reach out toKylie if you have any questions,
if you take the assessment andyou just need more clarity.
But definitely check out herworkshop and that free download
and also Instagram.
She's on Instagram.
That's where we connected.
So thank you so much for beinghere, kylie.
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (44:50):
This was such a joy and, just like you said, if
anyone has questions you canreach out and I'm always happy
to jump on a zoom call for a fewminutes just to walk you
through anything that you maybedon't understand.
Speaker 1 (45:02):
Well, that does it for this episode of the Catholic
sobriety podcast.
I hope you enjoyed this episodeand I would invite you to share
it with a friend, who mightalso get value from it as well,
and make sure you subscribe soyou don't miss a thing.
I am the Catholic sobrietycoach, and if you would like to
(45:23):
learn how to work with me orlearn more about the coaching
that I offer, visit my website,the catholic sobriety coach dot
com.
Follow me on Instagram at theCatholic sobriety coach.
I look forward to speaking toyou next time, and remember I am
(45:44):
here for you, I am praying foryou, you are not alone.
Welcome to the Catholic Subriety Podcast, the
go-to resource for women seekingto have a deeper understanding
of the role alcohol plays intheir lives, women who are
looking to drink less or not atall for any reason.
I am your host, christy Walker.
I'm a wife, mom and a JoyfieldCatholic, and I am the Catholic
(00:23):
Subriety Coach, and I am so gladyou're here.
Have you heard of thetemperaments and wondered what
yours might be?
Or maybe you took atemperaments assessment but
aren't sure how knowing them canbenefit you, your interactions
with others and help you makedecisions in your life?
(00:46):
Well, you are in for a treat,my friends, because today's
guest is Kylie Heine.
Kylie is a heart-centered,faith-filled coach who
understands the multifacetednature of her clients.
With a unique approachencompassing both body and soul,
kylie creates a non-judgmentalspace tailored to individual
(01:09):
goals and identities, providingsupport and encouragement for
clients to stress less, do moreand stay focused on what truly
matters.
She has a wonderful podcastcalled Persistence in Prayer and
Kylie kindly invited me to beon her podcast back in December.
Its episode 37 and the title iswhen Fine Isn't Fine Anymore.
(01:35):
Kylie and I had so much funtalking both before and after
the show and I just had to haveher on my podcast as well and
share her with all of you,because she is just amazing.
So thank you, kylie, for beinghere.
It's so awesome to see youagain.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Oh, thank you for having me.
That was such a kindintroduction and I'm just
excited because we had such agreat conversation and it's
continued off air, so I lovethat we get to share this with
your audience as well as mine.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
I know me too.
I've been looking forward tothis even since we ended our End
of your Podcast, so I wouldlove it if you would just start
us off by telling us a littlebit about yourself and what
brought you to coaching.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Yeah, so my name is Kylie Heine.
I grew up and currently live insmall town, nebraska, with my
incredible husband.
He is like just this powerfulsource of helping me to
recognize all of the ways thatI'm beating myself up all the
time and just bring out hope andjoy in me and my two wonderful
(02:44):
little.
So I have an eight-year-olddaughter and a five-year-old son
.
I am a former teacher and headvolleyball coach turned
certified Catholic coach.
So I was certified throughMetanoia Catholic and that
process and journey has been abeautiful one.
It started with developing myown relationship with God after
(03:05):
I strayed in my late teens,early 20s, I think, like many of
us do, getting caught up insocial norms and what society
tells us is the right way andthe fun way to live versus the
way that God calls us to live.
And really, through someincredible students and people
at the school I was working at,god just kept reaching out to me
(03:26):
again and again and encouragingme to pursue ministry and, in
all my shame, I thought, no way,I'm not doing it and I am not
the right person for thisbecause I am such a mess.
But he's persistent and so Ireally just lit up after my mom
(03:47):
passed away speaking on aretreat, and I knew in that
moment that this is somethingthat I've been created for.
So I continued teaching, Ipursued my master's in ministry
degree but still just felt thistug on my heartstrings to learn
more.
And so I started pursuingspiritual direction, which I'm
(04:08):
in spiritual directioncertification and along the way
I stumbled into coaching and Iwanted to learn how to be a
coach.
I didn't recognize that I neededcoached, which we'll talk about
Demerman's, a very caloric.
So I just didn't recognize thatthis was something that I
needed, and it was so profoundlyimpactful on my life that that
(04:31):
was really the thing that gaveme the courage to step away from
my fear and live out the waythat God was calling me to live,
and that is by leaving myteaching job, taking on coaching
and podcasting full-time.
And really I think my personalmission is to just bring souls
to Christ through prayer, and sothat's what I'm doing through
(04:52):
my coaching, through all of thework that I'm doing is just
every day asking the Lord how doyou want me to live this out?
And so here we are.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
Oh, that is so good.
Thank you so much for sharingthat, and I could just identify
with so so much of your storyand I am so glad that you
mentioned that sometimes thatshame that we feel like from our
past or whatever, can oftenkeep us from pursuing what God
(05:25):
is calling us to do.
We kind of get stuck in thatand feel like who me, god,
you're calling me to, you knowwhat I've done, you know where
I've been, and he's like, yes,exactly, and that is why I need
you to do this work, becausehe's uniquely equipped each and
every one of us.
So that is so inspiring and I'mso thankful that you shared
(05:50):
that as well.
So we are gonna talk abouttemperaments today, so can you
just explain a little bit aboutwhat temperaments are and also
how you use them with yourcoaching clients?
Speaker 2 (06:05):
Yeah, so I'll start with the type of clients that I
typically work with.
You know, as women, life isbusy and it can sometimes feel
like we have a million tabs openin our brain.
So I really help do it all.
Women close down theunnecessary tabs to eliminate
decision fatigue and emotionalfrustration.
So, taking away some of thosethings that can feel
(06:29):
overwhelming when we get anxiousabout what the next step is and
how we're gonna fit everythingin, we're not able to just sit
in the present and have thefreedom to love where we are and
how God is using us in thisordinary, everyday moment, and
it can keep us, like we said,stuck in fear.
So the temperaments are a way toreally help us understand
(06:51):
ourselves and have betterlanguage around the way that we
were created.
They help us to understand ournatural tendencies towards vice
or virtue, but they aren'tsomething that really defines us
.
So, for myself, knowing mytemperament has helped me to
understand again in a healthyway, how I'm naturally wired.
(07:13):
I used to think, oh, this like180 mood swing that I'm having
is just inherited from my dadand I can't fix it and there's
nothing I can do about it.
It was this very fixed mindsetabout the way that I was created
, but through knowing mytemperament and really digging
deeper into this, I now knowthat I can embrace the virtues
of this temperament and I canreally root out the vices and I
(07:36):
can grow in the virtues of someof the other temperaments.
It isn't a fixed thing, and itopened me up to this new world
of freedom, of recognizing whatmy ideal conditions are, these
things that fill me and thesethings that I needed my life, so
that I don't feel frustratedand overwhelmed, because we know
that our actions, the way thatwe respond to things, they're
(07:58):
often carried out due to ouremotions, and those emotions
hinge on thoughts that we'rehaving.
But for most of us, we don'tknow how to slow our brains down
in the moment to figure out,okay, what thought triggered me
to eat this food or drink thisthing.
We just kind of react.
But when we have language andwe understand ourselves more
(08:20):
fully, we know what to look forahead of time and our brains are
more easily able to identify inthe moment what is going on, so
that we can make better choices.
And so that's something that Ireally help clients to do is to
understand how they are wired,and this has profoundly helped
(08:41):
them in their relationships Ihear there's a lot of
relationships with their spousesand also relationships with
their children, and so when weunderstand that our brains work
a certain way and other people'swork a different way, we are
more loving and morecompassionate and more gentle in
our approach and we also areable to ask others for what we
(09:05):
need.
I think that's something thatwe don't do because we don't
know what we need.
Someone might ask us like whatdo you need?
Well, I don't know.
Now we know.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
I loved when you said decision fatigue, because
sometimes at the end of the dayI just feel so just like spent
and it's really difficult tokind of pinpoint what that is.
But the term decision fatigue itjust like was a light bulb to
me.
Like, yeah, I make a ton ofdecisions all day, every day,
and as moms we not only have tokeep track of our schedules but
(09:38):
like our kids' schedules andtheir stuff and our stuff and
all the things.
And it's such a blessing to bein this vocation.
But yet we have to learn waysto take care of ourselves so
that we don't turn to thingslike over consumption of alcohol
(10:00):
, food scrolling and all thosethings which inherently are not
necessarily bad.
It's just that we are not usingthem always in the way that
they were intended for us.
And what I love about thetemperaments is how you are
saying that they're not fixed.
But that brought a question tomy mind are we born with a
(10:23):
certain temperament, or is itsomething that is developed just
based on, based on ourenvironment and interactions
that we have with other people?
And then could someone like me,who's a sanguine, ever change
into like a cleric or somethingelse as I get older?
Speaker 2 (10:44):
Yeah.
So this is the next question.
So I love the way that ClaireDwyer explains this.
She says all the graces that weare given through prayer and
the sacraments and the generousoutpouring of a loving God act
upon the raw material of ournature.
Understanding that natureallows us to be more supple to
the work of God as he perfectsit and more loving towards those
(11:05):
around us who are also works inprogress.
So what all of that means isthat we are given this raw
material at birth, the way thatwe were created.
The raw material is our naturaltemperament, which is really
the way that we respond tosomething.
So we each have a predominanttemperament and I'll explain
(11:27):
what the temperaments are.
I'll break them down into thefour categories.
Our predominant temperament ismost easily identified when we
are kids, because this is whenit's just naturally gonna come
out.
Over time we can grow in thevirtues of other temperaments.
So if we were to look at asaint in their adulthood, at the
(11:47):
end of their life, we may notknow what temperament they were,
because they have so evenlybalanced out through the work
that they have put in and theirgrowth in the graces and
receiving the graces that Godhas given them to grow in virtue
, to kind of even these all out.
Jesus was the perfectculmination of all of the
(12:08):
virtues.
The rest of us we have all fourtemperaments, but we don't have
them in the same amounts.
So, to answer your question, wewill each have one that is
predominant.
We typically have a secondarythat is fairly high as well, and
then the other two are gonnafall behind.
Now if you were to take atemperaments assessment and
(12:30):
you're like man these are bothreally close but they're
opposing temperaments somepeople would say that that's
like something is mentally off,like that's not possible.
But really it's most likelythat you're getting those
results because you areanswering based on strategies
that you've taught yourself touse to cope with a deficit, and
(12:51):
so they might come up higher,for example, a caloric and a
phlegmatic or opposingtemperament.
So it wouldn't be likely thatyou would have both of those
really really high.
But if you do, it could likelybe because you have just trained
yourself to respond differentlyin different situations.
So I'll just break down reallyquick the four temperaments for
(13:15):
anyone who is not familiar withthem.
There are all kinds ofpersonality assessments that are
out there.
I love the temperaments becauseit's very simple.
There's only four of them, andwe know that our God is a God of
order and not of chaos, so hehas given us these patterns to
recognize where we fall andwhere we land, and also, this
(13:37):
particular assessment is very inline with church teaching, and
there are some out there thatare not, that are kind of new
age, or they call on differentthings that don't align with our
faith, and so I love that aboutthe temperaments.
The easiest way to break thesedown is based on your response
time.
So a caloric is someone who isquick to react and slow to move
(13:59):
on.
They are strong leaders,they're passionate, they're
decisive.
One of their vices, though, isthat they're really prone to
anger, and I can dig deeper intothese as we go, but I'll just
do like really short overview,okay.
So if we're thinking of strongcaloric, we might think of
someone like Saint Paul or SaintIgnatius of Loyola, like these
(14:19):
fierce leaders, saint Francis deSales, but they're also going
to be more prone to anger intheir youth.
If we were to look at them, areally strong caloric if you
ever watched the movie Friends,it would be Monica.
Monica would be like thecaloric Sanguines.
These are people who are quickto react, but they're also
(14:41):
really quick to move on Likethey are not going to hold a
grudge.
Obedience comes really easy tothem.
They're talkative, they'reoutgoing, they're friendly, but
they also can fall into beingvery impulsive.
They're very ruled by theiremotions or things that are
comfortable.
They don't want to do thingsthat are really hard.
They don't have a greatattention span, but they love
(15:03):
fun.
They love fun, they lovecreativity, they love community.
So if we were thinking ofsaints Saint Peter, saint Teresa
of Avila, saint Rose of Limathese are going to be some of
our sanguine saints.
The melancholic this is anintroverted temperament.
(15:25):
So the first two areextroverted, introverted
Melancholics are slow to react,but they are not going to forget
soon.
They're going to let this thinglinger for a while.
They're your very deep thinkers.
They're your perfectionists.
They want the details.
They're going to be the personasking all of the questions.
Sometimes, due to their nature,they can be overly worrisome.
(15:47):
They can tend to procrastinate,but they make really great
friends Like to have amelancholic friend is really
great, because they value deepand meaningful conversations.
These are not going to be yoursurface level people.
They want to go deep.
One of their biggest faults,though, is that they can tend
toward ruminating thoughts orover perfection, and they are
(16:11):
very harsh on themselves.
So they have a very high levelof mortification, but they are
very, very hard on themselvesand can kind of tear themselves
down if something doesn't goright.
They would be the people whowould tend towards screwbulosity
most likely.
So well-known melancholicswould be St Teresa Benedicta of
(16:33):
the Cross is believed to havebeen melancholic.
Moses in the Bible, st Bernardof Clairvaux and St Teresa of
Lissue was also a melancholic.
So I think of Ross from Friendsagain the Friends reference or
Eeyore from Winnie the Pooh.
Yeah, and then we have thephlegmatics.
This is our last introvertedtemperament.
These people are slow to react.
(16:55):
They're quick to move on.
They are balanced people.
They are the peacemakers.
They don't want to rufflefeathers.
They are amazing to have in theroom with choleraics.
We need them.
They remain cool under pressure.
They're not overly motivated ontheir own, but they can be
(17:15):
motivated by others.
They're very dependable.
They're very loyal.
They like structure.
They like simplicity.
They can struggle with settingboundaries because they are
extreme people pleasersSometimes can appear lazy, but
really they're just very laidback and they're good at finding
the easy way to do something.
Phlegmatics the most well knownis probably St Thomas Aquinas
(17:41):
or, if we're looking at theBible, abraham would be
phlegmatic.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
Wow, that is so fascinating.
I'm like, as you're listing allthese things I'm like thinking
of, like my family members andmy husband and myself and so
like as I was telling youearlier.
So I took the temperamentsassessment and I got 87%
(18:07):
sanguine and even though so, andthen I had told you that I got
70% caloric and flagmatic, which, like you are saying, is
opposing, and then 53%melancholic.
I could, when you said that thethat you can tell your main
(18:29):
temperament more by looking atwho you were when you were
younger, I can completely seethat like I was a total sanguine
most of the time.
I like to tell people I'm anintroverted, extrovert, like I
can talk to anyone anytime,anywhere and I'm always up for
you know, like an adventure andstuff, but I really love being
at home, I'm a homebody andenjoy just like being with my
(18:52):
family and stuff too.
So I do have like opposing,like personality traits, but I
can see how that was maybe notwho I was at the beginning and
it was something learned justfrom environment or experiences
and things like that.
And then also, knowing myhusband is caloric, melancholic,
(19:16):
like for sure, like there's noquestion, as you are like saying
that, and it does help, I think, to know the temperaments of
others, because then I can,instead of looking at him like
why aren't you like sospontaneous and want to go do
this thing?
That I think is amazing, andI'm trying to talk you into it
(19:37):
and he's like no, I really hadthis plan to do.
Blah, blah, blah.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
And this is what we're doing.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
I can be more understanding of, like, where
he's coming from, I think,knowing a little more about his
temperament.
So I can definitely see howknowing both your temperament
and your spouse especially, itcould be extremely helpful, but
then also knowing thetemperaments of your kids as
(20:06):
well.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
Yeah, and especially as you break these down even
more into where the strengthsand the weaknesses lie.
So sometimes you'll take thishusband.
For me, caloric shows up as myhighest sing when in melancholic
are very, very close following.
But when I look at it, a lot ofmy strengths are in caloric but
my weaknesses show up in thesanguine and that's why sanguine
(20:30):
is so high.
So the sanguine kind of I don'twant to call them negatives,
but the things that areas I canwork on being forgetful, easily
distracted, being led by myemotions or making impulsive
decisions based on momentaryfeelings those are areas where
(20:51):
I'm like okay, this is where Ican improve and I can work on.
But it's different for everyone.
So someone else might have thesame top two but it might be
flipped.
So it's really just getting toknow these different
characteristics and theassessment that you're talking
about.
Just to your listeners know,this is the one that's put out
(21:11):
by Metinway, a Catholic.
I'm certified through them.
There are differenttemperaments assessments.
I'm prone to this one becauseI've taken several and it seems
to be the most accurate.
But when you do take this, themisconception is that your
percentages will add up to 100%and that's not actually the case
it's just going to give you,the highest percentage is your
(21:35):
dominant temperament, and thenthe second one would be your
secondary temperament.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
Okay, yeah, that's good to know, because I took it
and I was like, what does thismean?
So that is very helpful to knowabout those percentages.
And it kind of does.
As, again, you were talkingabout the different qualities of
each person, it was like, oh,that is why those are such a
high percentage and why they'reso evenly matched and all that.
(22:05):
So it kind of makes sense.
But I think to really grasp theentirety of it, being coached by
someone who is certified isprobably going to really help
you understand thosetemperaments more and how they
relate to your life and how youcan you know the virtues and
(22:27):
vices which I'm going to ask youin just a minute.
But I think working with acoach probably helps you with
that, because then you know whyyou might be held back from
something or fearful, or why youmight be getting these results
that you don't want, becausemaybe you're like me and you're
more impulsive and you know likeforgetful or not organized you
(22:48):
know whatever it happens to be.
So with that, because most ofthe women who are listening to
this podcast are, you know,realizing that maybe alcohol is
becoming a problem for them,could you talk a little bit
about how our temperaments mightdispose us to different vices,
(23:09):
but also virtues, as well,absolutely so.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
If anyone just wants to know, kind of, what are the
vices and virtues, I have a freedownload on my website and it's
if you're familiar with theIgnatian daily exam.
I've kind of broken this down bytemperament, so there's just a
quick little blurb on how topray the exam.
You don't have to utilize itfor that, though.
So there at the top of eachpage for example, the caloric
(23:37):
there's a list of things thatthey are inclined toward
hardness, stubbornness, anger,pride, self-reliance, control,
impatience and then there arealso the opposing virtues that
they could really pray for beingmeek, humble, empathetic,
prudent, detached from outcomesand there's a list of questions
(23:57):
that they can really use toreflect on their day.
So, for example, like Lord, didI make decisions with you today
, or did I make decisions on myown today?
So that's for each temperament.
If you just kind of want tobreak down, if you're a visual
person, that's a free downloadthat you can get, and then I'm
going to go through them andreally talk specifically for
(24:18):
your audience about how this canshow up with the attachment to
drinking.
Perfect, thank you.
So, calerics, some of theirstrengths are these are the type
of people who are going tofigure out a way to do something
without being told.
They're not deterred by hardwork.
They really want to be the bestand they're not going to be
(24:38):
threatened by disagreements.
So if they go to a party andsomeone's like, hey, have a
drink and they've made thedecision not to drink, that's
not really going to sway them.
So that's the beauty of someonewho is caloric and they don't
like to waste time.
So they're going to look for aquick way to fix this attachment
.
If they have it, they're goingto be pretty good at just white
(24:58):
knuckleing it.
The struggle is they aren'tgoing to ask for help if they
need it, and that's really whatthey have to watch out for.
They're going to try to justfind a way to get it done and
they might be might go too farinto something.
So calerics can often reallystruggle with malice because
they want to be the best atsomething and they're just going
(25:18):
to throw themselves entirelyinto it.
They also might struggle withrecognizing that they even have
an a problem or have any kind ofattachment, because calerics
and I am one.
So I can say this we thinkwe're always right.
So if someone tells us that,hey, maybe you should consider
it like, maybe not drinkingthree days a week, I'm gonna be
(25:41):
like I don't have a problem, I'mfine, right?
So, depending on how deep thisattachment is, they may need
help, but it's gonna take somevulnerability for them to really
ask for it.
They're gonna have to tap intotheir motivation for winning or
not wasting time, for reallywanting tangible progress so
that they can allow themselvesto get the help that they need
(26:03):
to create structured goals thatare gonna help them be
successful, because, calerics,they thrive with goals and
deadlines.
These are the things that aregonna keep them moving forward.
They want their freedom tochoose.
So if they're working with acoach, the coach is still gonna
have to let them make theultimate decision, but they do
need help with discernment andjust help with what is success
(26:27):
and maybe redefining that.
So that's where I thinkcoaching is so essential and the
work that you do is soessential is just helping people
to recognize what it is thatthey need and how they can
really rely on their strengthsto move forward.
So that's the caleric.
You can stop me at any point ifyou have questions.
The Sangwin, again, this is ourother extroverted friend.
(26:50):
They work really well on teams.
They need an accountabilitybuddy or multiple buddies,
because again they're gonna beforgetful, like, oh, I made this
plan that I wasn't gonna drink,but I forgot I wasn't gonna
drink and I'm two drinks in.
They're not easily embarrassed.
They love to make things funand they're very self-assured
(27:13):
and confident, which is a greattrait of a Sangwin.
They're social people, so ifthey're in social situations,
they're going to wanna fit inwith the social situation.
So if everyone around them isdrinking, they may feel like
they should be drinking,especially if they think it's
gonna make them more fun.
So that's just something toreally be aware of.
(27:35):
Sangwins are highly creative,so I think that they can really
lean into this.
If I'm making a mocktail and Ican put the pretty umbrella in,
or I can make it fun, or I canget creative with coming up with
new names for new mocktaildrinks.
That's something where theymight really just be able to
lean in or other ways they wannahave recognition for, like I
(28:03):
said, just making things fun foreveryone else, and so if they
can inspire others to not drink,for example, if they can be the
inspiration for someone else tonot drink that's also something
that they could really tap intoand lean on.
Sangwins may also need visualreminders, so if that's a sticky
note on their very each morningright out of sight, out of mind
(28:26):
.
I'm gonna forget all the reasons, all the health reasons, why I
said I wasn't gonna drink thisweek.
They thrive with many rewardsoften.
So if they can find little waysto treat themselves like hey, I
didn't drink on Saturday, I onlydrink on Friday, so I'm gonna
reward myself with chocolate orsomething small, and also if
(28:48):
they can really just seek outopportunities to entertain.
Something that's really helpfulI found with my clients is if we
can tap into what we call theirideal conditions and ideal
conditions are things that justkind of fill them up, so I won't
feel the need to reach for adrink if I'm filled through my
(29:09):
other ideal conditions,something as like for Sangwins.
Sometimes it's a stage, it's aplace to perform, it's a place
to excite or entertain others, aplace where they can be liked,
where they can be creative,where they can just problem
solve then they might not be aslikely to lean toward that other
(29:30):
attachment.
So just we know from creatingnew habits that if we can create
these micro habits, like theselittle tiny things, so if they
can already lean into what theynaturally do well and create
this other tiny little habit,that is going to keep them from
negative attachments.
That can be really helpful.
As a Sangwin, do you relate toany of that?
Speaker 1 (29:55):
All of that, yes, yeah, I mean I can totally see
how, like trying to fit in, youknow it wasn't like I wanted
always to go out and party, butonce I did that I really felt
part of something when I was ateenager and that's kind of what
kept me drinking.
But I can also see, like whenyou were talking about the
(30:18):
caloric, how I do wanna getthings figured out quickly so I
was able to get sober when I was23 instead of waiting so many
years, and I so I could identifywith the other temperaments
that have come up in this aswell.
(30:38):
So I think it's good to knowthose because instead of
thinking like, oh well, I won'tbe able to do it because I'm
this, you can say, well, thesetemperaments actually work
together and, as you beautifullyand very thoroughly explain
them, I think people can seewhat those things are that are
(31:02):
helpful in maybe keeping thatother temperament in check when
it gets a little.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
Absolutely.
These are not fixed.
You are not in a box andSangwins do not like to be put
in a box.
Speaker 1 (31:16):
They like to do their own thing.
Yeah, if you tell me somethinghas to be some way, I'm gonna
try to figure out how it doesn'thave to be that way a lot of
times.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
Absolutely.
So then we go to ourintroverted temperaments
Melancholics once they'reconvicted in pursuing a goal,
they're gonna kind of go all in.
They're willing to sacrificetheir comforts if it's for
someone else.
So I think that that'ssomething they can really lean
into.
So if they can recognize thattheir drinking is hurtful or
(31:48):
harmful to the people that theylove and care about, that's
something that they can reallytap into.
And, like I said before, theyhave a high tolerance for
mortification.
So they're not afraid of whatmight feel a little bit painful
in not drinking.
And they're really good atfollowing rules and schedules.
So a lot of times all clientsare like oh, I just can't figure
this out.
(32:08):
Like you are the master atfollowing rules, go back to the
rules that you already have andjust go with that.
It's really helpful formelancholics to understand the
why of something Like I said,why it's not great for my
relationship.
Who am I hurting?
How is this affecting myability to be great?
Because melancholics areperfectionists.
(32:30):
They want everything to beabsolute perfection.
One of the struggles is theydon't like feeling stupid.
They don't like being in asituation where they're gonna
feel dumb.
They can also get reallyoverwhelmed by overstimulation.
So if they're in a groupsetting and it's like I feel
really uncomfortable because I'maround all these people and
(32:50):
there's all these surface levelconversations going on and that
I don't like that chit chatwhere I can't just have, meaning
that I might be more likely toreach for a drink or something
that's going to take me out ofmy discomfort that I am feeling.
Cause that's for a lot of us, Ithink, why, at least for me
(33:11):
personally, I should just saywhy I did reach for a drink,
like I was uncomfortable inthose situations.
Even though my temperament isextroverted, I get very
overstimulated.
Being around a lot of peopleand I am a relator, so I like
small groups, intimateconversation.
Asking me about the weather orsurface level things is just,
(33:34):
it's draining for me and soknowing that, then I can kind of
have a plan, and formelancholic, plans are really
important.
They're the people who are usedto holding everyone else
accountable, right?
So the sanguine needs amelancholic friend to help hold
them accountable.
So this is a place where theymight need someone else to help
(33:56):
them and to recognize that theyneed that.
They need their sanguinefriends to help them realize
that they can't have fun.
Melancholic are very pronetowards sadness and we know that
alcohol is a depressant.
So if they're already feelingkind of sad, already feeling
(34:17):
down, they struggle withrecognizing joy because they're
gonna focus on all of the sorrowaround them.
They're gonna take on otherpeople's sorrow.
This is where surroundingthemselves with other sanguines
is really helpful to help upliftthem and bring them up.
Melancholics really neednon-judgmental compassion.
They need the freedom to beable to cry and to feel their
(34:40):
emotions however they arefeeling them, whereas the same
one is like I want to jump tothe happy feeling, I'm going to
skip over the sad feeling allthe time.
I don't want to feel myfeelings.
Uh, the the melancholic is justgoing to sit and ruminate, and
that is where they really needtheir space.
It's going to be a trigger forthem If someone is trying to
(35:03):
like make them peppy in aninstant.
So they just they need thatfreedom, that time and that
space to really process what itis that they are feeling in the
way that they are feeling it.
Speaker 1 (35:12):
Yeah, I will tell you I, my husband, gets so mad at
me because I'm like, well, lookat the bright side.
And well, at least it's notthis.
And he he's on more than oneoccasion just said can I just be
mad for a minute, like can Ijust be mad and then I'll be
over it.
So I get that that totallyresonates and I'm going to spend
(35:36):
over the years to just let himbe mad for a minute.
But it, my sanguine tendenciescan't help, but just like crop
up.
Speaker 2 (35:43):
You know I have to laugh in relationships because
the sanguine is the person who'sgoing to do something.
Their spouse is going to getirritated and five seconds later
they're going to be like, let'scuddle.
And the spouse, if they're notsaying, they're going to be like
, no, yeah, I'm like, aren't wegood?
We're good, right, yeah, let'stalk about it.
Yeah, yeah, oh.
Speaker 1 (36:08):
So funny, uh, flagmatics so.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
Flagmatics.
Like I said, there arepeacemakers.
They are very low conflict, sothey do not like high tense
Interactions.
If they're around people whoare very loud or overly
emotional, that that can be, um,interiorly disruptive for them.
They really like rules.
They, like I said, can geteasily overwhelmed.
(36:32):
So they do better withstructure and a plan.
They aren't naturally motivated,so they are going to need
encouragement from others, butnot nagging, because the
calerics like to nag them likehey, you're lazy, why aren't you
doing all these things?
And that is not motivating forthem.
That is going to lead them todo the exact opposite.
They want to be invited to givetheir opinion.
(36:55):
They're not because they'reintroverted.
They might want to share, butunless someone asks them to
share, they are not going to.
So they need to be invited andthey need to be encouraged.
Um, so if you know someone who'slike Maddox, who's maybe trying
to drink less and reallyencouraged, then this is going
to be really helpful for them.
They need help with settingboundaries.
(37:17):
So, again, that having a planfor how I'm going to show up,
about how I'm going to say andwhat I'm going to do, uh,
because they're going to want tojust oh, if I say no, then they
might get mad at me and that'suncomfortable, right?
So having clear boundariesestablished is key.
Um, because they are reallygreat at following procedures.
(37:38):
So if you have somethingoutlined for them and it's
really simple, they're going tofollow through with that.
Um, and, like I said, they'realso really loyal.
Uh, if they avoid emotionallycharged situations, that can be
helpful.
And also if they see proof orsuccess like if they can look at
their successes in the past orproof of why something works,
(37:59):
they're going to be more likelyto hang onto that and move
forward.
Yeah, oh, my goodness, that isall so very helpful.
I love how you just laid outboth the pitfalls and the
pitfalls and the pitfalls andthe pitfalls and the pitfalls
and the pitfalls.
Speaker 1 (38:11):
And that is also very helpful.
I love how you just laid outboth the pitfalls that we might
experience based on ourtemperaments, but also how our
temperaments can help us youknow not, or how we can reach
out for help, knowing what ourtemperaments are even I think
that that is brilliant and Ihope that that has been super,
(38:32):
super helpful for those of youwho are listening.
I just the assessment that youwere talking about that I've
taken in that you use is fromMetanoia Catholic and I can
leave a link to that.
Is that the one that you wouldalways recommend?
Speaker 2 (38:51):
that people take.
Yeah, that's the one that Irecommend you can take others.
They might show up a little bitdifferently.
I know I took one and I gotcomplete opposite temperaments
but as I read through them I wasable to recognize that didn't
fit.
So there are other ones outthere, but the Metanoia Catholic
one is free.
So also, just if you listen,you a lot of people can usually
(39:11):
identify kind of what they thinktheir temperament is.
So as you listen to that, ifyou kind of resonated with one,
that's likely that's what yourdominant temperament is.
But yeah, I the assessment isfree and I think it's totally
worthwhile just to just to knowand then if you can decide, if
you want to learn more aboutthat.
Speaker 1 (39:33):
Yeah, I think it's fun to to do that and not just
fun, but can be very, veryhelpful and I think that you've
done an excellent job ofexplaining why it would be so.
So, before we close, is thereanything else that we didn't
touch on that you want to talkabout?
Speaker 2 (39:57):
If anyone wants to learn more about their
temperament, so say you.
Go do the Met Noi Catholicassessment.
I'm doing a free workshop atthe end of the month.
I don't have the date finalizedyet, but you can reach out to
me on Instagram at Kylie Imhine,or email info at Kylie
Imhinecom and I'll let you knowthe details or if you want to
(40:19):
get on my list for that.
But what we do in the workshopthis one is really oriented
toward better relationships, butwe'll break down all of these
things that I spouted out arejust the very surface level of
your temperament, and in theworkshop what we actually do is
you get a workbook and we gothrough your contributions, your
(40:41):
weaknesses, your internaltriggers, your external triggers
, and they're laid out in a waythat you can see the outside,
that you can see the othertemperaments as well.
So as you're going through itand you're like, oh, this is me,
but you're curious what yourspouse is or you're curious how
to better relate to yourchildren those types of things
(41:01):
you can also see theirs, and Ithink that that's what really
helps us grow, as much asknowing our own and also just
developing healthy languagearound the way that we were
created because the way that weare created is beautiful and
it's unique and it's individual.
So I think it's really helpfuland we get to go a little deeper
(41:22):
and as thoughts come up, youcan get coach on the thoughts
that you're having or thestruggles.
And at times, if I do aworkshop, I've done some live
workshops and I had a group offlogmatics and their first
reaction was I don't like it, Idon't think this is right.
It sounds like flam.
Ironically, the temperamentshave been around since
(41:44):
pre-Christian, pre-christianity,starting with Hippocrates, and
originally he recognized thatthere was a way that people were
reacting you know certainpatterns and he thought that it
was based on their natural bodyfluid that was most prominent,
so blood or bile or things likethat.
And so flagmatic actually doescome from the word flam, which
(42:08):
is funny.
But now we recognize that it'smore of a different approach.
It's not a bodily approach, butit's very well written on and
explored and so, yeah, I wouldjust encourage anyone who just
wants to know more.
It's a free workshop, there'sno cost.
I'll send out a replay if youcan't make it live, and the
(42:31):
language is just really helpfulto know and understand and you
can use it to help you with anykind of attachment, whether it's
eating, drinking less, whateverit is that you're working
toward right now.
Speaker 1 (42:45):
That is awesome.
I will leave all of thatinformation in the show notes.
That workshop sounds amazing.
And then I want to remind mylisteners about the download the
free download that's on yourwebsite that you talked about
about the daily examin.
That can kind of help you asyou go through your day and it's
based on your temperaments.
(43:06):
And I just want to tell you Iwas reading a book by, like,
annie Bronte, the tenant ofWinfield Hall, and they were
talking like the author noted,like personality, because of his
singuine personality or becauseof his, yes.
So when you just said, you know, sometimes we think like these
(43:28):
assessments and things are sonew, but they're they've been
around forever, like you werejust saying, even pre
Christianity, which is crazy.
But I realized that as I wasreading that very old classic
book, I was like, oh, that's sointeresting.
So I'm glad that you mentionedthat, because I was like when I
was reading it, I'm like I needto tell Kylie that.
(43:49):
But, yes, I forgot until youmentioned it.
Because because I forget.
Thanks.
Speaker 2 (43:53):
And I will add the people who said I'm not like
medic.
I think that's wrong.
We got about 10 minutes intothe workshop and they're like
Okay, I take it back.
This is me.
Speaker 1 (44:06):
I totally am.
Yes, that's great.
Yeah, knowing thyself rightAbsolutely Well.
Thank you again so much, kylie.
I feel like I could talk to youfor days, but we can't do that
here, so maybe I'll have youback on another time and for any
(44:28):
of my listeners reach out toKylie if you have any questions,
if you take the assessment andyou just need more clarity.
But definitely check out herworkshop and that free download
and also Instagram.
She's on Instagram.
That's where we connected.
So thank you so much for beinghere, kylie.
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (44:50):
This was such a joy and, just like you said, if
anyone has questions you canreach out and I'm always happy
to jump on a zoom call for a fewminutes just to walk you
through anything that you maybedon't understand.
Speaker 1 (45:02):
Well, that does it for this episode of the Catholic
sobriety podcast.
I hope you enjoyed this episodeand I would invite you to share
it with a friend, who mightalso get value from it as well,
and make sure you subscribe soyou don't miss a thing.
I am the Catholic sobrietycoach, and if you would like to
(45:23):
learn how to work with me orlearn more about the coaching
that I offer, visit my website,the catholic sobriety coach dot
com.
Follow me on Instagram at theCatholic sobriety coach.
I look forward to speaking toyou next time, and remember I am
(45:44):
here for you, I am praying foryou, you are not alone.
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