March 5, 2024 • 52 mins
Steve O'Connor from Catholics Fight Porn is back again for a candid conversation on faith, addiction, and the power of community. We navigate the rugged terrain where personal struggles with addiction intersect with our pursuit of a spiritually anchored life.
Steve shares insights into his coaching work and the profound impact of togetherness in battling the demons of pornography and sexual addiction, a topic that's often hidden in shadows but seeks the light of healing through our collective efforts.
This episode is a tapestry of experiences, weaving my personal narrative with Steve's as we examine the effects of our Catholic upbringing and its role in shaping our responses to temptation and societal influences. It's a reflective look at how we have used substances and behaviors to cope and how these choices have led us to a deeper understanding of the sacredness of our existence and the need for a compassionate community in our journey toward self-control and spiritual communion.
Through our discussion, we bring forth the notion that recovery is not just an individual triumph but a collective victory that transcends backgrounds and unites us in vulnerability and strength.
Find Steve at https://www.catholicsfightporn.com
and on IG @CatholicRecovery
I'm here for you. I'm praying for you. You are NOT alone!
Please subscribe to this podcast so you won't miss a thing!
Join the Sacred Sobriety Lab: https://sacredsobrietylab.com
Drink Less or Not at All FREE Guide: https://view.flodesk.com/pages/63a4abe81488000c28b9ba89
Follow me on Instagram @thecatholicsobrietycoach
Visit my Website: https://thecatholicsobrietycoach.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Jesus tells us to take up our cross and follow Him
.
It's really as simple and asdifficult as that, but how do we
do that in a world that issmothering us with the
temptation of overindulging inworldly comforts at every turn?
This is what Steve O'Connor andI will be discussing today.
If you found this podcast, itis not by accident.
(00:24):
Friend, God wants you to hearsomething in our conversation
that will inspire, enlighten,encourage, equip or motivate you
.
He also wants you to know thathe is with you always and you
are not alone.
For those who don't know me, myname is Kristi Walker and I am
the Catholic sobriety coach.
(00:45):
I'm also a Joyfield Catholic, awife, mom, speaker and podcast
host, and today, as we arerecording this episode, I am
celebrating 27 years of sobriety.
Steve, why don't you go aheadand introduce yourself?
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Before I do that, congratulations on 27 years,
kristi.
That is so awesome, thank you.
If I had a chip and if we wereat a meeting, I'd be happy to
give it to you or clap for you.
Praise the Lord, and so my nameis Steve O'Connor and I run
Catholics Fight Porn, which is aministry to help men break free
(01:22):
from pornography, unwantedsexual addiction.
We do group coaching,one-on-one coaching, and we stay
connected throughout the weekto hold each other accountable
and to break free.
We go through a course thatI've created, called Finally
Free, to bring you to the otherside of freedom from this
(01:44):
addiction.
So thanks, kristi, for havingme Appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
Yeah, you're welcome.
So today, Steve and I are justgoing to have a conversation, so
we don't really know where thisis going to go, and it will go
where the Spirit leads us, andI'm very confident of that fact.
So the first thing that Iwanted to address is just the
unique challenges faced by menand women, specifically Catholic
(02:12):
men and women, and maybe someof the things that we were told
growing up that may have led usto the choices and decisions
that we made in the past.
For me, I was told growing upthat girls can do anything boys
can do better.
I actually had a t-shirt thatsaid that, and then I was told
(02:35):
that I didn't need a man, thatif I depended on a man, that
meant that I wasn't being agreat strong woman.
I was told that I am enough andthat my truth is good for me
and that your truth is good foryou, and that there's no
absolute truth.
(02:57):
I lived a life of self-reliancefor a very long time.
I even brought that into mymarriage with my husband, and
that caused issues in thebeginning, but thankfully I've
learned over the years how totrust and let go, but it has not
been easy.
So how about you, steve.
What are some of the messagesthat you heard growing up?
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Yeah, if you don't mind, just a quick response to
that, which is quite fascinatingbecause it reminds me of the
fall in the Garden of Eden,where the devil is just always
working.
He always has been working andhe tricks Eve into disobeying
God and Adam the man does notstand up and they're all blaming
(03:42):
each other.
But Eve, the devil worked onher and I think that's why, when
God revealed his plan thatredemption would come through a
woman, our Blessed Mother, thatSatan just hated this plan and I
think he hates women.
I get oftentimes forced intopornography and all these things
to bring men down, and it'sjust this one huge spiritual
(04:08):
battle that I think we're alwaysfighting good against evil
every day.
For me, growing up, I grew up ina great home, went to Catholic
school all the way up untilcollege and while I was taught
all the right things to do,there wasn't the culture I think
(04:28):
of.
My wife went to FranciscanUniversity and at Franciscan
they had a beautiful pressure todo the right thing.
So if you went off to do thewrong thing, you were the
outcast.
It was much easier to go toMass, to go to prayer, to go to
praise and worship, to go to aBible study.
That was the norm, and so,while I loved the schools that I
(04:53):
went to and I remember themvery fondly a lot of good
memories it wasn't lived out.
I didn't know so many thingsthat our faith even had to offer
until I was out of Catholicschool.
One of the main ones I think ofis adoration.
I was just reading on InstagramI think it was Patrick O'Hern
put something up.
(05:13):
There was a seminarian that wasstruggling and he was at
adoration and he's looking atour Lord there, who's physically
present in the BlessedSacrament, and he says Jesus,
what do you do all day?
Just think he must be so bored.
And Jesus says I wait for you,and that our Lord just craves
(05:34):
time together.
And that's what best friends do, is they spend time together.
So, once again, great familyand great education, but it
wasn't lived out.
I was doing sports, I washanging out with friends as
often as I could and we weren'tliving the faith At home.
I'm the youngest of three.
(05:54):
We had a family system.
Where it was.
It a lot of really good values,good discipline.
I was, oh okay, this is how wedo things.
If you don't like it, suck it up, and so, granted, maybe you did
need to do what your dad wasasking you to do, but instead of
suck it up maybe understandingwhy I don't want to do it, or
(06:18):
coming at it from a differentangle, because maybe when I was
explaining why I didn't want todo it or whatever suck it up,
this is just what we do.
Don't talk back.
And so I grew up in someinstances feeling like my voice
wasn't heard or these ideas orthoughts or emotions that I had
(06:39):
weren't really valued, and soit's not to be harsh to my
parents I think there's manygenerations where this is just
how it was.
It was viewed as don'tchallenge your talking back,
even if you did it in arespectful way.
I think it was seen sometimesin my family as talking back,
and I think just looking atdifferent ways of parenting and
(07:01):
realizing that I probably stillneeded to do what my dad was
asking, but maybe he couldconnect with me and then maybe
show me the value in it or andI'm sure he tried but getting me
on board in another way.
It's not saying he did anythingwrong, but I think every family
grows up in a system and thenwe take along just these
(07:26):
different messages that areeither spoken or unspoken, and
so for me, porn.
Once I found it, it just madeall of those uncomfortable
feelings go away.
So hopefully that answers yourquestion.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
Yeah, and I think that too, when I think about my
addiction and why I got into itand how that relates to the
messages that I got and theself-reliance that and the
self-reliance that I haddeveloped from a very young age,
when I found alcohol, it waslike this magical elixir that
(08:09):
allowed me to be someonedifferent, someone that people
thought was that I was fun to bearound, that I had more energy,
I was more outgoing, I thoughtI was definitely more clever and
beautiful and witty and all ofthese things, and that being
(08:31):
able to change myself byconsuming alcohol was an act of
control.
So I was using the alcohol tonot only numb, not only cope
with social situations andanxieties that I had about
myself.
But it was my way of saying I'min charge and I'm going to make
(08:54):
things happen, because when Iwas drinking I had more courage
to make things happen Not alwaysgood, often not good, but in my
mind and again, just what weare told in the culture, one of
(09:14):
the things was like boys can goout and just sleep around and do
all of these things and they'renot looked at badly, but when
girls do it, we are looked at aharlot.
And so I did those things,tried to drink the boys under
the table.
I was promiscuous because Icould and I was like, if it's
(09:37):
good enough for boys, it's goodenough for me.
But I never took intoconsideration one, that my body
is a temple of the Holy Spiritand God resides in me and I
should treat it as such.
And you get one body and youshould respect it and honor it
and all of those things.
But two, I just didn't.
(09:59):
I don't know.
I just didn't value myself andI didn't think that other people
valued me.
And the only way that peoplewould value me is if I was this
other person, this person thattook charge that drink, that
called the shots, that did allthese things that I couldn't do
(10:20):
when I wasn't drinking, and yeah, so that definitely led me into
alcohol, it definitely kept mein my addiction.
And, of course, then the nextmorning I would wake up and feel
terrible, and not justphysically but oh my gosh, what
(10:43):
did I say?
Oh my gosh, what did I do?
Where am I?
And those types of things.
And so then I have this shame,this guilt, this regret, and
then I drink again because Ican't face that anymore and I
want to be that person again.
I don't want to be this personthat I just woke up to, this
(11:06):
person that feels so much shameand she's not confident.
I want to be that other person,so it would just lead me back
to that time and time again.
So I'm wondering, steve, as youwere talking about your
upbringing and some of themessages that you got about what
you were saying about suck itup or you need to do the right
(11:28):
thing, you need to know the path.
Do you feel like any of thosemessages contributed to your
porn addiction or kept youtrapped in that porn addiction
in any way?
Speaker 2 (11:42):
Yeah, I think I was just sharing that when your
voice isn't heard.
It made me feel like I was notgood enough.
It made me feel like I don'tmatter, so I'm not good enough.
How come I have these ideas andthey're not being valued?
Or maybe my parents arelistening to my brothers and not
me, so it's like my brother isbetter than they like me, and
I'm sure my brothers might say,geez, steve gets all this
(12:04):
special treatment.
Do my parents like Steve morethan me?
I think because of original sin,we're all wounded, but I do
think my core wound is notfeeling good enough, feeling
inadequate, and so that did leadme.
I think that's why thepornography had such an impact
(12:27):
on me, because there's thedopamine and the reward center
of the brain and even thoughyou're looking at maybe a
magazine, a video or a screen,some of the brain science is
that it bypasses part of thebrain that feels these.
It makes it feel like it's real, even though it's not real.
It's not even close to real.
(12:47):
You're looking at a magazinethat's not real, might feel like
, oh, this person wants me.
Now I feel like I'm good enough.
Now that pain has gone away, soit's numbed it and so whenever
I would feel that core emotionaltrigger, that I'm not good
(13:08):
enough, porn would come in andbasically just make that
negative emotion go away for atime being.
But, like you, you fall intothis cycle of emptiness and
guilt and shame.
And so it's.
It feeds this whole good andevil spiritual battle because it
(13:31):
keeps us enslaved into thisbondage and we are a slave to
sin and the Bible says the wagesof sin are death.
So really not being on a verysolid path Got into my faith as
I realized porn and acting outwas wrong.
Then it became this brutaltorture mentally because I
(13:58):
wanted to stop and could not forso many years.
And breaking free is like such agodsend because, oh man, now
when I'm feeling like I'm notgood enough, now the brain can
be rewired after so many timesof reminding myself that I am
good enough that I give myparents the benefit of the doubt
(14:20):
.
They didn't mean to do any harm, they were just simply trying
to get me to do what they wantedme to do and they were doing
the best they could do.
And I can look at God'spromises, which are all
throughout the Bible, that hecares for us, that he rescues us
, that he saves us, that he'swith us, that we are never alone
(14:41):
and, at the end of the day, godmade me.
So if I feel like I'm not goodenough, it would almost be like
saying God didn't do a goodenough job creating me, which is
a lie straight from hell.
But how easy it is as a childto get sucked into these
mindsets that I'm not goodenough, that I don't matter.
(15:03):
So that's the benefit ofgetting into recovery, working
with a coach and then being incommunity with other guys.
We're going through the samething.
And for you, other ladies goingthrough the same thing and
realizing I'm not alone, I'm notthe only one with this problem.
In fact, we can help each otherfight off these really diseased
(15:26):
attitudes and ways of thinking.
And one last thing I'll say isI find that it never stops.
So even you're celebrating 27years of sobriety, by the grace
of God, one day at a time, I'mcoming up on 11 years and that's
all, by God's grace.
And even stopping all that, foryou you're not drinking.
(15:51):
For me, I'm not looking at pornand acting out with myself, but
I find that the devil is stillalways working and even when
you're doing good things.
He's still working on us.
It could be being at church ona Sunday and thinking, oh, look
at me, here I am in the pew when, oh, I receive on the tongue
that person does.
I must be better than them.
(16:12):
No, I'm not better than them.
So Satan is always working.
And I think you go back tospending time in the Adoration
Chapel in front of the BlessedSacrament, and just simply
fixing our eyes on Christ keepsus humble.
And it's like when Jesus waswalking on water and Peter is
(16:33):
walking towards Jesus on waterin faith, and the minute he
starts looking around, sensingthe weather and the storms and
doubting, he starts to sink,only to have our Lord save him.
But I think that wherever we'reat in the journey, we've got to
stay close to our Lord andmyself at top of the list,
(16:54):
because the devil's alwayslooking at how he can attack me
at the next step.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
So yeah, as you were talking.
Also, it brought back what youwere saying about Eden and Eve
and how Satan told her oh, didGod really say that you couldn't
eat from that tree?
Like putting that doubt in hermind, not telling her, but
(17:25):
alluding to the fact so that shewould make the judgment.
Oh, god's holding out on me.
God doesn't want me to be happy, god doesn't want us.
Look at that tree, look at thatfruit.
It's so delicious and it looksso good and if I have it I'll be
like God.
(17:45):
But here's the biggest lie theywere already like God.
We're made in the image andlikeness of God.
So the devil takes some truth,mixes it with a lie and then
feeds it to us.
And then we're like, oh, and sothat can lead us astray, that
can have us doubting God, andwhen we doubt God's goodness we
(18:07):
doubt ourselves.
That can even become.
When I got sober, it still tookme like many years of healing of
my spiritual journey to finallyaccept that God forgave me.
I'm like I just, I keepconfessing it.
(18:28):
I just I don't forgive myself,and it keeps going.
But the devil's right there.
Did God really say he forgivesyou?
I don't know if he reallyforgives you.
Are you sure?
Because here's a list of allthe things you did.
I'm sure he couldn't haveforgiven you for that.
That's ridiculous.
But then somebody said to me areyou saying that God isn't
(18:49):
powerful enough to forgive you?
And I was like, oh my gosh.
That was such a mind-openingmoment Because, like you were
saying, god created us good, hedoesn't make mistakes and he can
take our choices, ourshortcomings and all of those
(19:12):
and bring about a greater good.
And I think that's what you andI both are doing.
You're doing that with men whoare seeking freedom from porn,
and I am doing that with womenwho are seeking to live a life
of freedom, whether that'sreducing or eliminating alcohol
from their lives, because that'swhat God desires for us.
(19:32):
God desires us to live afulfilled life of freedom.
The world offers us destruction.
The world offers us confusion,where words don't mean anything
anymore, right.
Where science doesn't meananything unless they want it to
mean something.
Words don't mean anythingunless they want it to mean
something.
There's no absolute truthunless this side says it.
(19:54):
And yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
Yeah, and what's interesting?
The fall of Adam and Eve is sointeresting Because once they
both sinned, then they feltnaked, then they hid themselves,
so then they felt shame.
And, like you said, what we'reboth doing is using our own
(20:17):
brokenness to try to help others.
I think we've both felt Godpushing us to do this.
For me, it's still hard toadmit this publicly.
I keep waiting, like when is so?
And so going to hear thispodcast and what are they going
to think of me?
And that's shame.
And with original sin, thecatechism, the teaching of our
church, says this is aroundparagraph 400.
(20:40):
I don't have it exact, but itsays as a result of this first
sin, man was inclined to do whatis wrong and sunk to many evils
.
And so I try to work with myguys like, hey, shame is like we
(21:00):
feel that so often, probably ona daily basis.
But let's remind ourselves thatour ancestors who fell in the
garden introduced sin,introduced death into the world,
introduced toil and struggleinto the world, and because of
that we're actually drawn to dowhat is wrong.
And so all the great saintsMoses was a murderer, david was
(21:26):
an adulterer and an accompliceto murder, and Noah got drunk,
and you go on and on.
Peter, our first pope, deniedour Lord three times when he
said he never would.
Paul was killing Christians onand on.
The point is that if we slip up, it's okay because of our
Lord's mercy.
If we slip up, we run toconfession.
(21:47):
We run to confession with ahumble and contrite spirit and,
to your point, he will forgiveus.
And we don't need to doubt thatforgiveness, because as far as
the east is from the west, sofar as our Lord put our
transgressions from him I thinkthat's from Psalm 103.
So he truly is a mercifulfather.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
He for sure is.
And fear is a liar, right.
So that's what keeps us stuck.
And when you were talking aboutshame, what came to me is that
shame isn't 100% bad, right.
Shame tells us that somethingis wrong.
That is alerting us to a factlike why am I feeling this?
So we can use that as alearning tool.
(22:31):
We can use that as a resourceto not look at ourselves with
judgment or condemnation or anyof those things that the evil
one likes to offer us.
We don't have to beat ourselvesup about it, but we do have to
look at it like cleaning out acloset.
You have to take all this stuffout and look at all the things
(22:53):
and sort it out and decide whatyou're going to keep and what
you're going to throw away ordonate.
It's the same thing.
We have to take it out and lookat it, as uncomfortable as it
is.
Like you and I have had to do alot of uncomfortable things
like getting up being herespeaking about these things that
(23:13):
we are speaking about.
It's not pleasant, but it'snecessary and we are encouraged
and equipped and strengthened byGod, because I know that
neither one of us could do thisif we didn't have God's grace
allowing us to do that and allof those spiritual gifts that he
has equipped us with to be ableto do this.
(23:35):
So we take the shame, we saywhat is happening here, but
don't stay stuck in it, becausewhen you stay stuck in it, when
you fixate on it, when you allowit to penetrate your soul, that
is when you're going to go backto whatever that comfort is,
whatever that coping mechanismis that is keeping you in a
(24:01):
shame cycle.
Don't stay there, you can getout and God can help you do that
.
I think another thing that weneed to maybe discuss is because
you work with Catholic men inrecovery.
I work with Catholic women.
I've expressed a lot of timeswhy I work specifically with
Catholic women.
It's because we speak the samelanguage, we have similar, even
(24:25):
though Catholics are different,completely different.
Right, we have differentthoughts on things, we have
different perspectives, butessentially, what unites us and
brings us together is theMagisterium of the Church and
Sacred Scripture, as long as,whatever we're looking at or
(24:48):
engaged in, it has to fit withinthose perimeters of the
Magisterium and Sacred Scripture.
Wherever you land on certaintopics, as long as it fits
within those two categories,that is what can really unite us
together?
But there's so much division inthis world, there's so much
(25:12):
division in our church.
So, steve, what do you think,or how do you think, that we as
Catholics Catholic men andCatholic women how can we work
together instead of playing intothis divisiveness that is just
rampant in our world and againin our church, even among
(25:38):
Catholic speakers and Catholicpodcasters and Catholic
influencers?
There's great divide, but we dohave that unity.
How can we really tap into that?
Speaker 2 (25:52):
I think it's just to recognize the spiritual warfare.
It's good and evil and thedevil divides, so we can't fall
into it.
There's church politics.
You go to the Tridentine Mass,you go to Novus Ordo and if you
spend any time online, heavenforbid, you go to the Novus Ordo
and feel like you're not evenCatholic.
I love the Latin Mass.
(26:15):
It's fantastic, it's beautiful.
So I was talking to my brotheronce and he said, steve, the
perfect liturgy is in heaven,and so, whether it's the new
mass or the old mass, I don'tunderstand why we fight about it
.
And there's church politics andhow certain things should be
handled, and what the Pope saidversus what he meant, versus
(26:38):
what he officially declared, andall these things.
I just think if you spend toomuch time on these sorts of
things, are you growing inholiness?
Are you still spending timewith our Lord?
Are you a noisy soul?
And when I say you, I'mactually asking myself these
things too.
Am I following these things tooclosely?
(27:01):
Or am I making sure that I'mtithing 10%, or that I'm
relaxing with my family on aSunday and I have my prayer time
in and I'm reading scriptureevery day?
American politics forget aboutit.
The media, this big bullhornthat I think we all know that if
you turn on the news, most ofit's negative.
(27:22):
Whatever side you're on, mostof it is negative.
How much of the news isuplifting?
And so we can get the weatheron our phone and we can get
sports on our phone.
Why we follow the news, I'm notsure, and I did it for years
and in my opinion it's one bigdistraction.
And maybe it's fine to read acouple of headlines.
(27:46):
And, by the way, I'm nottelling people what they should
do.
I think everyone should discernfor themselves what's prudent,
what's not prudent.
I think you should recognizewhere it takes you and if you
can look at the headlines andjust get the drift and figure
out where that does fall intoCatholic Church teaching and
(28:07):
biblical truths, that's great.
But even just other people'schoices and their freedoms were
judging them because they did X,y or Z.
Our Lord says in Matthew 7, notto judge one another, because
as you judge them you will bejudged, and how harsh you judge
them, the same treatment ofharshness will be judged upon
(28:30):
yourself and the whole logsplinter in the eye.
And so Jesus is the judge whenhe comes back.
So we don't need to be judgingother people, and I think we
need to focus on unity and focus.
The same goes for apologetics.
If you're talking to aProtestant who's not Catholic
(28:51):
and you want to school them onall of our beautiful truths, we
do have to speak the truth andlove, and so it's often so
helpful to speak in terms ofunity.
Here's what we have in common.
Let's start here and then maybewe can talk about what we
disagree on.
But if we have these debates orthings and then we come away
(29:18):
and we're angry with a person orwe're judging them or we're
resenting them, then really itsounds like we're hurting
ourselves.
But if we are building them up,looking at our unity, looking at
how we can strengthen oneanother because iron sharpens
iron then this is a good thing.
This is time well spent.
(29:39):
So I just think, when twopeople are fighting, how can we
unite?
And recognizing that so often.
Sometimes you need a gooddisagreement, sometimes
someone's being treated unfairly, address it have boundaries.
But if it's maybe currentevents and what the media is
(30:04):
pushing, I think we just have tobe really careful of how we get
sucked into these things.
And if we're being divided, Ithink that's the red flag,
because Satan divides.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
Yeah, I completely agree with that.
When you were talking, I wasthinking a lot of the women that
come to me have during COVID iswhen their alcohol use
escalated, because it justchanged everything.
It really was a lot of pressureand I feel like it just poured
gasoline on the disunity thatwas already rampant at that time
(30:42):
and it just made things reallycrazy.
I guess, if I had to say whatmy COVID addiction was, it
wasn't alcohol, it was the factthat I did get so wrapped up in
politics, which I had not beenin before.
I was so wrapped up in what Ithought should happen and I
thought I should do, and I wasreally judging other people's
(31:05):
choices against mine and otherCatholics.
And I'm not that person.
That's not who I am before that, it's not who I am after that,
but it's who I was during that.
And thanks sweet God, I woke upand I was like Christy, what
are you doing?
You're mad all the time, you'reangry, you're paranoid, you
have anxiety, which you neverhave, anxiety, and I felt just
(31:29):
so oppressed by the government,by other people's voices, by
other people's opinions and mymom said it, and actually you
talked about it too when youwere talking about when Peter
was walking on the water.
Keep your eyes focused on Jesus.
Like all that other stuff itdoesn't matter.
(31:51):
Keep your eyes fixed on Jesus.
Now, as Catholics, we need to beinformed at some level.
I agree, but I too used to bevery tied to the news.
I don't watch that anymore.
I get my information when Ineed that information.
I mean, I got to tell you thatwe had a big snow and ice storm.
(32:13):
I didn't even know it wascoming until five.
People are like what about thesnow and ice?
I'm like I have no idea whatyou're talking about, and it was
because I don't watch the news.
I don't know what the weatheris going to be.
It's going to be whatever it is, and I'm fine with that because
I can't change it.
And I think sometimes peoplewatch the news or get they make
(32:35):
an idol, and they I say they, Idid it too, so I'm counting
myself as one of they.
We make an idol of things ofthis world and put so much
importance into it, like churchpolitics or American politics,
world politics.
(32:55):
What other people's choices areon different things?
There are things that areimportant, but again, we need to
put on our Christian worldviewglasses and look at it through
those lenses, look at it throughthe eyes of Jesus.
Sit with God.
Like you were saying, we have afriendship with Jesus and when
(33:18):
we sit with him and when we askLord, what is your?
What do you want me to knowabout this situation?
What do you need me to do?
What are you calling me to do?
What is the holy discontentthat I'm feeling?
What do you want me to do withthat?
That's where we're going to notstay stuck in the confusion that
(33:45):
Satan wants us to be in.
That's where we're not going tostay stuck, worried about what
other people are doing or whatother people are thinking.
That is going to give us thefreedom to just live joyfully
and increase our faith, which isgoing to increase our love,
(34:06):
which is going to help us reachout to those where we can and
just shine Christ's light andlove and, most of all, give them
that message of mercy.
Jesus is there for you, he'swaiting for you.
Like that St John Paul II quote.
I love it.
Like it is Jesus that you seekwhen you dream of happiness.
(34:29):
He is waiting for you whennothing else satisfies you.
We look around this world and wesee people trying to.
I live in Washington.
Marijuana is legal here.
There are marijuana shopseverywhere, brightly colored
neon everywhere and they'resaying here, here's your comfort
(34:50):
, this is going to make you feelgood, this is going to make you
not be so anxious or be able todeal with life.
That is a lie.
That is such a lie.
That is a trap.
Alcohol is a trap.
Pornography is a trap.
Scrolling is a trap.
But here's the thing God givesus pleasures to enjoy right,
(35:14):
ordered sex in the context ofmarriage, for intimacy between a
husband and wife, forprocreation.
That is good, that is noble.
That is what it was created for.
Alcohol is not an evil thing.
Like people can have it andenjoy it and seek pleasure from
(35:34):
it.
But it's the disordered.
I'm using it as a crutch, I'musing it as a tool.
I'm overusing it, I'mover-consuming.
That is where it becomesdisordered and that's where it
can cause problems.
And the same thing withtechnology we're able to talk to
each other and talk to youthrough the amazing wonders and
(35:57):
gifts of technology, but it canbe misused so, so badly.
So it's all about just keepingour eyes on Christ temperance,
moderation, discernment and justdoing what he's asking us to do
.
Speaker 2 (36:18):
Yeah, and I agree with all that, and I got swept
up with the politics as wellaround COVID time.
But then you break out of thatand you realize it's like taking
a fourth step.
In AA we take an inventory ofourselves.
Basically, if I was to do acolumn, how much time did I
(36:38):
spend following the news versushow much time did I spend with
our Lord?
I spent more time with the newsand to me that's embarrassing
because I also agree with whatyou said.
It's good to be informed.
We do need to know what's goingon.
I don't know if we need to know, but it's a good thing because,
for all we know, there's stuffcoming down the pike that we
(37:02):
should be informed about andaware of so that we're ready to
respond.
But are we spending more timeon the news than with our Lord?
And that's for me that's theultimate litmus test.
I want to spend more time withour Lord because, no matter what
comes down the pike and what wehave to deal with in the future
(37:23):
, if I have our Lord I haveeverything and, like you said,
jesus Francis Fernandez says ifI possess Jesus, I have
happiness.
Happiness is to possess Jesusand, like your JP2 quote not
that I don't care about the news, it's just that it wasn't
healthy and to me it was adistraction.
(37:46):
So I can spend that timehelping other guys and growing
community.
But what I love about recovery,christy, is that you have
everyone from every walk of life, that's, if you're at a 12-step
group, you have everyone andeveryone in anyone different
(38:06):
backgrounds.
And then with what we're doing,we're working.
We're trying to work with theCatholic folks because we know
there's such a need in thechurch for this.
Even within the Catholic worldyou still have people on this
side or that side, but itdoesn't mean that they're bad
people.
Their opinions are shaped onwhat they believe is right.
(38:28):
But the beautiful thing withrecovery is those things don't
matter.
What does matter is am I actingout, am I staying sober, am I
getting well?
And typically you figure out howto stop, how to stay stopped,
and then, because you're notinfected and a slave to sin, now
(38:52):
our spiritual life can take offbecause we are free.
We are more free to love ourLord.
None of that other stuffmatters.
And in recovery to mepersonally is because we focus
on kind of these acute problemsFor you why are you drinking so
much, and what can we do todrink less or not at all?
For me, okay, why did you lookat porn last night and how can
(39:18):
we root this out of your life?
And typically it's connectionwith others and connection with
God.
To me, those are the importantthings.
Speaker 1 (39:28):
Yeah, I agree and really you're right.
It's like porn use, alcohol use, drug use, scrolling overeating
All of those are a symptom of agreater need that we're trying
to fill.
And so that's really what thework that you and I do with our
(39:50):
clients respectively is to getto that root.
Because once you get to thatroot then it's a lot easier to,
because you can remove it, likefor alcohol.
You can remove it and for mostpeople, within 30 days 90 days,
actually, about 90 days thoseneuro receptors are already set
(40:12):
and you're back to where you are.
But if you still have that rootcause, then it's very easy to
turn right back to thataddiction, even when everything
else is fine.
You're not addicted to itphysically.
All your neurotransmitters aregood.
(40:33):
You've even maybe changed thehabit of having it at night or
whenever it was, but it's soeasy, as soon as something comes
up, to go straight back to it.
So we have to.
That's really where the soulwork comes in, where we sit with
Jesus, and I think that's partof why I personally want to work
(40:57):
with Catholic women.
We speak the same language.
They understand the importanceof the sacraments and the power
of the sacraments, just like youwere talking about.
We avail ourselves of thesacrament of reconciliation.
We open ourselves up.
God can pour in His grace.
It strengthens our spiritualgifts that we've been given by
(41:20):
virtue of our baptism and thoseare for us, to fortify us and
strengthen us.
And then we have, like, ourcharisms that were given and
those are for the building up ofthe church.
Those are for all of us to worktogether.
And that's you and I are doingthat right now.
Right, we're using our uniquecharisms, our natural talents,
(41:40):
our worldview, our experiencesall of those things that make
you and I uniquely who we areand unrepeatable.
And for all of you listening,you have that same grouping of
experiences, of natural talents,of charisms to work together.
When we do that and we havethat community and that support,
(42:03):
it makes it so much easier toget to the root of the problem
and just rip that right out sothat we can be free and we can
be open.
Now does that mean we're gonnago out, we're not gonna send?
No, I still spend too much timeon Instagram sometimes.
I will sometimes overspend orovereat or whatever it is,
(42:25):
overindulgent things, but onceyou have that awareness, you can
stop yourself and be like waita second, what's really going on
?
Like you said, steve, a lot oftimes, it's connection for all
of us, for whatever that thatvice is, that we're holding on
to it's feelings of unworthiness.
It's just seeking connection.
(42:46):
It could be that we're tired.
What's that?
You're hungry, angry, lonely,tired.
What do you think about that,oh?
Speaker 2 (42:54):
you're right on it's.
Yeah, we have to right, we haveto use these gifts and I think
I do think the world isdefinitely pushing us in a
direction and there there havebeen some kind of unified voices
these past few years.
(43:15):
And so what was interesting tome is our lady, 158 years ago at
La Salette, said all the civilgovernments will have one and
the same plan, which will be toabolish and do away with every
religious principle to make wayfor materialism, atheism,
(43:38):
spiritualism and vice of allkinds, for disorder and the love
of carnal pleasures will bespread all over the earth.
So once again, 150 plus yearsago, all civil governments will
have one in the same plan itfeels like that it does
(43:59):
Abolishing religious principles.
Our country some people saywe're in a post-Christian
America Still Christianity isvery strong here, but further
and further we seem to begetting away with it.
Materialism, consumerism,endless shopping how easy is it
to buy anything on Amazon andhave it appear the next morning?
(44:22):
Atheism you think of the spreadof communism which has been
around for so long Spiritualismperhaps our lady speaking of
this new agey, spiritual but notreligious, vice of all kinds
alcohol, pornography, affairsand, like you said, drugs carnal
(44:43):
pleasures will spread all overthe earth.
It's pretty profound.
And then you look at our ladyof Fatima, who came along I
don't know what 70 years laterand she tells Sister Lucia that
the final battle between theLord and the reign of Satan will
be about marriage and thefamily.
And you think of divorce, youthink of the harmful effects
(45:09):
that has on children, and thenthose children don't want to get
married nowadays.
Then they're not havingchildren.
You look at how rampantabortion is.
You look at how some people areconfused about who they are.
You can definitely feel thetentacles that Satan has over
(45:29):
the earth.
Now there's great hope becauseour Lord wins in the end and I
think we all know that God wins.
That's right in the Bible andour lady will crush the head of
Satan.
So we've got to stay close toour lady.
And so there's great hope.
But it doesn't mean that therewon't be these sufferings that
we all will need to endure,because our Lord endured them on
(45:53):
the cross.
But there is good news.
I think it's building community, getting with like-minded
people, building each other upin holiness.
This universal call to holinessSaint Paul said 2,000 years ago
behold, now is a very acceptabletime.
Now is a very acceptable time.
(46:14):
Now is a good time to bond withone another.
Let's put our differences aside.
Let's make sure that, if you doscroll, that you've already
prayed to our Lord during theday.
Give to God the first fruits,give him your time, give him
your talent, give him yourtreasure, and then you can do
some scrolling if you want to.
But let's make sure we'rebuilding each other up, that we
(46:39):
are not staying divided, becausethat's what Satan wants.
So, whether we are in a time ofa remnant church, we're called
to look at the signs of thetimes.
Good is being called to, evilis being called good.
Maybe we're close, maybe we'renot, but I think we are always
(47:01):
called to do God's will.
So it makes it easier whenyou're in community.
Recovering from any of thesecrutches and coping mechanisms
is easier with one another.
Instead of leaning, the Biblesays lean out on your own
understanding.
So let us not lean on our ownunderstanding.
(47:21):
Work with a coach if you need acoach.
Work with Christy if you needhelp in this area of your life.
Like she said at the beginning,if you're listening to this and
you've listened before and youfeel like you need help or it's
your first time coming across us.
Maybe our Lord put this infront of you Not trying to
manipulate you or anything likethat, right?
(47:43):
But maybe just looking at, wow,how did I come across this?
Why did God put this in frontof me?
So, anyways, we're here.
We're Catholics that love ourLord, that need mercy, that
still screw up, that go toconfession, but that love our
Lord and try to stay on theright path and keep our eyes
(48:04):
fixed on Him.
Speaker 1 (48:07):
I think that the world will be such a more
beautiful place if we can juststart there.
People don't necessarily wantour words.
They want to see God's love inaction.
Speaker 2 (48:20):
And recovery is all about action, it's not about our
intentions.
And yet another great scriptureversus that, when you think, oh
man, what if hard times arecoming?
Or even if they're here now?
Not to be afraid.
John Paul II was always sayingbe not afraid.
Echoing the words of our Lord,and again from the Bible, it
says perfect love, cast out allfear and speaking of fear.
(48:44):
As we're recording today, thechurch celebrates the Feast of
St Polycarp.
Interesting name, polycarp, buthe was, along with Ignatius of
Antioch, a disciple of John theapostle, and then followers of
Polycarp were Irenaeus andTurtulians.
I think Polycarp was 86 when hewas martyred, was burned at the
(49:08):
stake in 155 AD, but he wasn'tabout to turn away from our Lord
.
We have to pray forperseverance during these hard
times, but his example and allthe martyrs should give us
strength and courage not toabandon the cross like 11 out of
(49:28):
the 12 apostles did.
They were not present at thefoot of the cross, so let us
stay close to our Lord at thecross.
There is hope.
And I don't know, was it notSaint Joan of Arc who said I was
born for such a time as this?
So, even if things are hard,that's the way of the Christian,
(49:49):
and it's actually very excitingtimes if you can look at it
from that way.
So if you need help in any ofthese areas, reach out to
Christy myself.
We are happy to help.
We'll point you in the rightdirection.
I know for me.
You can go oncatholicsfightporncom and book a
free 20-minute call with me andfigure out if it's right that
(50:13):
we work together or not.
I'm sure Christy offers thesame thing, but really having a
firm foundation of sobrietygives us the freedom to break
free from sin and to fully livethe life that God has called us
to live.
Speaker 1 (50:32):
Amen, I think you said it well.
So thank you so much, steve,for this very worthwhile
conversation.
I think we could have talkedfor hours, but we have to keep
it short.
So well, we did not keep itshort, but we had to keep it to
a time limit.
(50:52):
So I think that, as Steve wassaying, if you need help, we are
both here for you.
You can find me at thecatholicsobrietycoachcom or on
Instagram at thecatholicsobrietycoach, and let's
have this conversation, anotherconversation like this again.
Speaker 2 (51:11):
And I'm on Instagram at Catholic Recovery.
Now, if you struggle with theinternet, stay off the internet,
but if it's okay, check us outand we're happy to help.
Speaker 1 (51:23):
Thank you so much and we will talk again soon.
Speaker 2 (51:26):
Thanks, Christie.
Have a great day you too.
Jesus tells us to take up our cross and follow Him
.
It's really as simple and asdifficult as that, but how do we
do that in a world that issmothering us with the
temptation of overindulging inworldly comforts at every turn?
This is what Steve O'Connor andI will be discussing today.
If you found this podcast, itis not by accident.
(00:24):
Friend, God wants you to hearsomething in our conversation
that will inspire, enlighten,encourage, equip or motivate you
.
He also wants you to know thathe is with you always and you
are not alone.
For those who don't know me, myname is Kristi Walker and I am
the Catholic sobriety coach.
(00:45):
I'm also a Joyfield Catholic, awife, mom, speaker and podcast
host, and today, as we arerecording this episode, I am
celebrating 27 years of sobriety.
Steve, why don't you go aheadand introduce yourself?
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Before I do that, congratulations on 27 years,
kristi.
That is so awesome, thank you.
If I had a chip and if we wereat a meeting, I'd be happy to
give it to you or clap for you.
Praise the Lord, and so my nameis Steve O'Connor and I run
Catholics Fight Porn, which is aministry to help men break free
(01:22):
from pornography, unwantedsexual addiction.
We do group coaching,one-on-one coaching, and we stay
connected throughout the weekto hold each other accountable
and to break free.
We go through a course thatI've created, called Finally
Free, to bring you to the otherside of freedom from this
(01:44):
addiction.
So thanks, kristi, for havingme Appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
Yeah, you're welcome.
So today, Steve and I are justgoing to have a conversation, so
we don't really know where thisis going to go, and it will go
where the Spirit leads us, andI'm very confident of that fact.
So the first thing that Iwanted to address is just the
unique challenges faced by menand women, specifically Catholic
(02:12):
men and women, and maybe someof the things that we were told
growing up that may have led usto the choices and decisions
that we made in the past.
For me, I was told growing upthat girls can do anything boys
can do better.
I actually had a t-shirt thatsaid that, and then I was told
(02:35):
that I didn't need a man, thatif I depended on a man, that
meant that I wasn't being agreat strong woman.
I was told that I am enough andthat my truth is good for me
and that your truth is good foryou, and that there's no
absolute truth.
(02:57):
I lived a life of self-reliancefor a very long time.
I even brought that into mymarriage with my husband, and
that caused issues in thebeginning, but thankfully I've
learned over the years how totrust and let go, but it has not
been easy.
So how about you, steve.
What are some of the messagesthat you heard growing up?
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Yeah, if you don't mind, just a quick response to
that, which is quite fascinatingbecause it reminds me of the
fall in the Garden of Eden,where the devil is just always
working.
He always has been working andhe tricks Eve into disobeying
God and Adam the man does notstand up and they're all blaming
(03:42):
each other.
But Eve, the devil worked onher and I think that's why, when
God revealed his plan thatredemption would come through a
woman, our Blessed Mother, thatSatan just hated this plan and I
think he hates women.
I get oftentimes forced intopornography and all these things
to bring men down, and it'sjust this one huge spiritual
(04:08):
battle that I think we're alwaysfighting good against evil
every day.
For me, growing up, I grew up ina great home, went to Catholic
school all the way up untilcollege and while I was taught
all the right things to do,there wasn't the culture I think
(04:28):
of.
My wife went to FranciscanUniversity and at Franciscan
they had a beautiful pressure todo the right thing.
So if you went off to do thewrong thing, you were the
outcast.
It was much easier to go toMass, to go to prayer, to go to
praise and worship, to go to aBible study.
That was the norm, and so,while I loved the schools that I
(04:53):
went to and I remember themvery fondly a lot of good
memories it wasn't lived out.
I didn't know so many thingsthat our faith even had to offer
until I was out of Catholicschool.
One of the main ones I think ofis adoration.
I was just reading on InstagramI think it was Patrick O'Hern
put something up.
(05:13):
There was a seminarian that wasstruggling and he was at
adoration and he's looking atour Lord there, who's physically
present in the BlessedSacrament, and he says Jesus,
what do you do all day?
Just think he must be so bored.
And Jesus says I wait for you,and that our Lord just craves
(05:34):
time together.
And that's what best friends do, is they spend time together.
So, once again, great familyand great education, but it
wasn't lived out.
I was doing sports, I washanging out with friends as
often as I could and we weren'tliving the faith At home.
I'm the youngest of three.
(05:54):
We had a family system.
Where it was.
It a lot of really good values,good discipline.
I was, oh okay, this is how wedo things.
If you don't like it, suck it up, and so, granted, maybe you did
need to do what your dad wasasking you to do, but instead of
suck it up maybe understandingwhy I don't want to do it, or
(06:18):
coming at it from a differentangle, because maybe when I was
explaining why I didn't want todo it or whatever suck it up,
this is just what we do.
Don't talk back.
And so I grew up in someinstances feeling like my voice
wasn't heard or these ideas orthoughts or emotions that I had
(06:39):
weren't really valued, and soit's not to be harsh to my
parents I think there's manygenerations where this is just
how it was.
It was viewed as don'tchallenge your talking back,
even if you did it in arespectful way.
I think it was seen sometimesin my family as talking back,
and I think just looking atdifferent ways of parenting and
(07:01):
realizing that I probably stillneeded to do what my dad was
asking, but maybe he couldconnect with me and then maybe
show me the value in it or andI'm sure he tried but getting me
on board in another way.
It's not saying he did anythingwrong, but I think every family
grows up in a system and thenwe take along just these
(07:26):
different messages that areeither spoken or unspoken, and
so for me, porn.
Once I found it, it just madeall of those uncomfortable
feelings go away.
So hopefully that answers yourquestion.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
Yeah, and I think that too, when I think about my
addiction and why I got into itand how that relates to the
messages that I got and theself-reliance that and the
self-reliance that I haddeveloped from a very young age,
when I found alcohol, it waslike this magical elixir that
(08:09):
allowed me to be someonedifferent, someone that people
thought was that I was fun to bearound, that I had more energy,
I was more outgoing, I thoughtI was definitely more clever and
beautiful and witty and all ofthese things, and that being
(08:31):
able to change myself byconsuming alcohol was an act of
control.
So I was using the alcohol tonot only numb, not only cope
with social situations andanxieties that I had about
myself.
But it was my way of saying I'min charge and I'm going to make
(08:54):
things happen, because when Iwas drinking I had more courage
to make things happen Not alwaysgood, often not good, but in my
mind and again, just what weare told in the culture, one of
(09:14):
the things was like boys can goout and just sleep around and do
all of these things and they'renot looked at badly, but when
girls do it, we are looked at aharlot.
And so I did those things,tried to drink the boys under
the table.
I was promiscuous because Icould and I was like, if it's
(09:37):
good enough for boys, it's goodenough for me.
But I never took intoconsideration one, that my body
is a temple of the Holy Spiritand God resides in me and I
should treat it as such.
And you get one body and youshould respect it and honor it
and all of those things.
But two, I just didn't.
(09:59):
I don't know.
I just didn't value myself andI didn't think that other people
valued me.
And the only way that peoplewould value me is if I was this
other person, this person thattook charge that drink, that
called the shots, that did allthese things that I couldn't do
(10:20):
when I wasn't drinking, and yeah, so that definitely led me into
alcohol, it definitely kept mein my addiction.
And, of course, then the nextmorning I would wake up and feel
terrible, and not justphysically but oh my gosh, what
(10:43):
did I say?
Oh my gosh, what did I do?
Where am I?
And those types of things.
And so then I have this shame,this guilt, this regret, and
then I drink again because Ican't face that anymore and I
want to be that person again.
I don't want to be this personthat I just woke up to, this
(11:06):
person that feels so much shameand she's not confident.
I want to be that other person,so it would just lead me back
to that time and time again.
So I'm wondering, steve, as youwere talking about your
upbringing and some of themessages that you got about what
you were saying about suck itup or you need to do the right
(11:28):
thing, you need to know the path.
Do you feel like any of thosemessages contributed to your
porn addiction or kept youtrapped in that porn addiction
in any way?
Speaker 2 (11:42):
Yeah, I think I was just sharing that when your
voice isn't heard.
It made me feel like I was notgood enough.
It made me feel like I don'tmatter, so I'm not good enough.
How come I have these ideas andthey're not being valued?
Or maybe my parents arelistening to my brothers and not
me, so it's like my brother isbetter than they like me, and
I'm sure my brothers might say,geez, steve gets all this
(12:04):
special treatment.
Do my parents like Steve morethan me?
I think because of original sin,we're all wounded, but I do
think my core wound is notfeeling good enough, feeling
inadequate, and so that did leadme.
I think that's why thepornography had such an impact
(12:27):
on me, because there's thedopamine and the reward center
of the brain and even thoughyou're looking at maybe a
magazine, a video or a screen,some of the brain science is
that it bypasses part of thebrain that feels these.
It makes it feel like it's real, even though it's not real.
It's not even close to real.
(12:47):
You're looking at a magazinethat's not real, might feel like
, oh, this person wants me.
Now I feel like I'm good enough.
Now that pain has gone away, soit's numbed it and so whenever
I would feel that core emotionaltrigger, that I'm not good
(13:08):
enough, porn would come in andbasically just make that
negative emotion go away for atime being.
But, like you, you fall intothis cycle of emptiness and
guilt and shame.
And so it's.
It feeds this whole good andevil spiritual battle because it
(13:31):
keeps us enslaved into thisbondage and we are a slave to
sin and the Bible says the wagesof sin are death.
So really not being on a verysolid path Got into my faith as
I realized porn and acting outwas wrong.
Then it became this brutaltorture mentally because I
(13:58):
wanted to stop and could not forso many years.
And breaking free is like such agodsend because, oh man, now
when I'm feeling like I'm notgood enough, now the brain can
be rewired after so many timesof reminding myself that I am
good enough that I give myparents the benefit of the doubt
(14:20):
.
They didn't mean to do any harm, they were just simply trying
to get me to do what they wantedme to do and they were doing
the best they could do.
And I can look at God'spromises, which are all
throughout the Bible, that hecares for us, that he rescues us
, that he saves us, that he'swith us, that we are never alone
(14:41):
and, at the end of the day, godmade me.
So if I feel like I'm not goodenough, it would almost be like
saying God didn't do a goodenough job creating me, which is
a lie straight from hell.
But how easy it is as a childto get sucked into these
mindsets that I'm not goodenough, that I don't matter.
(15:03):
So that's the benefit ofgetting into recovery, working
with a coach and then being incommunity with other guys.
We're going through the samething.
And for you, other ladies goingthrough the same thing and
realizing I'm not alone, I'm notthe only one with this problem.
In fact, we can help each otherfight off these really diseased
(15:26):
attitudes and ways of thinking.
And one last thing I'll say isI find that it never stops.
So even you're celebrating 27years of sobriety, by the grace
of God, one day at a time, I'mcoming up on 11 years and that's
all, by God's grace.
And even stopping all that, foryou you're not drinking.
(15:51):
For me, I'm not looking at pornand acting out with myself, but
I find that the devil is stillalways working and even when
you're doing good things.
He's still working on us.
It could be being at church ona Sunday and thinking, oh, look
at me, here I am in the pew when, oh, I receive on the tongue
that person does.
I must be better than them.
(16:12):
No, I'm not better than them.
So Satan is always working.
And I think you go back tospending time in the Adoration
Chapel in front of the BlessedSacrament, and just simply
fixing our eyes on Christ keepsus humble.
And it's like when Jesus waswalking on water and Peter is
(16:33):
walking towards Jesus on waterin faith, and the minute he
starts looking around, sensingthe weather and the storms and
doubting, he starts to sink,only to have our Lord save him.
But I think that wherever we'reat in the journey, we've got to
stay close to our Lord andmyself at top of the list,
(16:54):
because the devil's alwayslooking at how he can attack me
at the next step.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
So yeah, as you were talking.
Also, it brought back what youwere saying about Eden and Eve
and how Satan told her oh, didGod really say that you couldn't
eat from that tree?
Like putting that doubt in hermind, not telling her, but
(17:25):
alluding to the fact so that shewould make the judgment.
Oh, god's holding out on me.
God doesn't want me to be happy, god doesn't want us.
Look at that tree, look at thatfruit.
It's so delicious and it looksso good and if I have it I'll be
like God.
(17:45):
But here's the biggest lie theywere already like God.
We're made in the image andlikeness of God.
So the devil takes some truth,mixes it with a lie and then
feeds it to us.
And then we're like, oh, and sothat can lead us astray, that
can have us doubting God, andwhen we doubt God's goodness we
(18:07):
doubt ourselves.
That can even become.
When I got sober, it still tookme like many years of healing of
my spiritual journey to finallyaccept that God forgave me.
I'm like I just, I keepconfessing it.
(18:28):
I just I don't forgive myself,and it keeps going.
But the devil's right there.
Did God really say he forgivesyou?
I don't know if he reallyforgives you.
Are you sure?
Because here's a list of allthe things you did.
I'm sure he couldn't haveforgiven you for that.
That's ridiculous.
But then somebody said to me areyou saying that God isn't
(18:49):
powerful enough to forgive you?
And I was like, oh my gosh.
That was such a mind-openingmoment Because, like you were
saying, god created us good, hedoesn't make mistakes and he can
take our choices, ourshortcomings and all of those
(19:12):
and bring about a greater good.
And I think that's what you andI both are doing.
You're doing that with men whoare seeking freedom from porn,
and I am doing that with womenwho are seeking to live a life
of freedom, whether that'sreducing or eliminating alcohol
from their lives, because that'swhat God desires for us.
(19:32):
God desires us to live afulfilled life of freedom.
The world offers us destruction.
The world offers us confusion,where words don't mean anything
anymore, right.
Where science doesn't meananything unless they want it to
mean something.
Words don't mean anythingunless they want it to mean
something.
There's no absolute truthunless this side says it.
(19:54):
And yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
Yeah, and what's interesting?
The fall of Adam and Eve is sointeresting Because once they
both sinned, then they feltnaked, then they hid themselves,
so then they felt shame.
And, like you said, what we'reboth doing is using our own
(20:17):
brokenness to try to help others.
I think we've both felt Godpushing us to do this.
For me, it's still hard toadmit this publicly.
I keep waiting, like when is so?
And so going to hear thispodcast and what are they going
to think of me?
And that's shame.
And with original sin, thecatechism, the teaching of our
church, says this is aroundparagraph 400.
(20:40):
I don't have it exact, but itsays as a result of this first
sin, man was inclined to do whatis wrong and sunk to many evils
.
And so I try to work with myguys like, hey, shame is like we
(21:00):
feel that so often, probably ona daily basis.
But let's remind ourselves thatour ancestors who fell in the
garden introduced sin,introduced death into the world,
introduced toil and struggleinto the world, and because of
that we're actually drawn to dowhat is wrong.
And so all the great saintsMoses was a murderer, david was
(21:26):
an adulterer and an accompliceto murder, and Noah got drunk,
and you go on and on.
Peter, our first pope, deniedour Lord three times when he
said he never would.
Paul was killing Christians onand on.
The point is that if we slip up, it's okay because of our
Lord's mercy.
If we slip up, we run toconfession.
(21:47):
We run to confession with ahumble and contrite spirit and,
to your point, he will forgiveus.
And we don't need to doubt thatforgiveness, because as far as
the east is from the west, sofar as our Lord put our
transgressions from him I thinkthat's from Psalm 103.
So he truly is a mercifulfather.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
He for sure is.
And fear is a liar, right.
So that's what keeps us stuck.
And when you were talking aboutshame, what came to me is that
shame isn't 100% bad, right.
Shame tells us that somethingis wrong.
That is alerting us to a factlike why am I feeling this?
So we can use that as alearning tool.
(22:31):
We can use that as a resourceto not look at ourselves with
judgment or condemnation or anyof those things that the evil
one likes to offer us.
We don't have to beat ourselvesup about it, but we do have to
look at it like cleaning out acloset.
You have to take all this stuffout and look at all the things
(22:53):
and sort it out and decide whatyou're going to keep and what
you're going to throw away ordonate.
It's the same thing.
We have to take it out and lookat it, as uncomfortable as it
is.
Like you and I have had to do alot of uncomfortable things
like getting up being herespeaking about these things that
(23:13):
we are speaking about.
It's not pleasant, but it'snecessary and we are encouraged
and equipped and strengthened byGod, because I know that
neither one of us could do thisif we didn't have God's grace
allowing us to do that and allof those spiritual gifts that he
has equipped us with to be ableto do this.
(23:35):
So we take the shame, we saywhat is happening here, but
don't stay stuck in it, becausewhen you stay stuck in it, when
you fixate on it, when you allowit to penetrate your soul, that
is when you're going to go backto whatever that comfort is,
whatever that coping mechanismis that is keeping you in a
(24:01):
shame cycle.
Don't stay there, you can getout and God can help you do that
.
I think another thing that weneed to maybe discuss is because
you work with Catholic men inrecovery.
I work with Catholic women.
I've expressed a lot of timeswhy I work specifically with
Catholic women.
It's because we speak the samelanguage, we have similar, even
(24:25):
though Catholics are different,completely different.
Right, we have differentthoughts on things, we have
different perspectives, butessentially, what unites us and
brings us together is theMagisterium of the Church and
Sacred Scripture, as long as,whatever we're looking at or
(24:48):
engaged in, it has to fit withinthose perimeters of the
Magisterium and Sacred Scripture.
Wherever you land on certaintopics, as long as it fits
within those two categories,that is what can really unite us
together?
But there's so much division inthis world, there's so much
(25:12):
division in our church.
So, steve, what do you think,or how do you think, that we as
Catholics Catholic men andCatholic women how can we work
together instead of playing intothis divisiveness that is just
rampant in our world and againin our church, even among
(25:38):
Catholic speakers and Catholicpodcasters and Catholic
influencers?
There's great divide, but we dohave that unity.
How can we really tap into that?
Speaker 2 (25:52):
I think it's just to recognize the spiritual warfare.
It's good and evil and thedevil divides, so we can't fall
into it.
There's church politics.
You go to the Tridentine Mass,you go to Novus Ordo and if you
spend any time online, heavenforbid, you go to the Novus Ordo
and feel like you're not evenCatholic.
I love the Latin Mass.
(26:15):
It's fantastic, it's beautiful.
So I was talking to my brotheronce and he said, steve, the
perfect liturgy is in heaven,and so, whether it's the new
mass or the old mass, I don'tunderstand why we fight about it
.
And there's church politics andhow certain things should be
handled, and what the Pope saidversus what he meant, versus
(26:38):
what he officially declared, andall these things.
I just think if you spend toomuch time on these sorts of
things, are you growing inholiness?
Are you still spending timewith our Lord?
Are you a noisy soul?
And when I say you, I'mactually asking myself these
things too.
Am I following these things tooclosely?
(27:01):
Or am I making sure that I'mtithing 10%, or that I'm
relaxing with my family on aSunday and I have my prayer time
in and I'm reading scriptureevery day?
American politics forget aboutit.
The media, this big bullhornthat I think we all know that if
you turn on the news, most ofit's negative.
(27:22):
Whatever side you're on, mostof it is negative.
How much of the news isuplifting?
And so we can get the weatheron our phone and we can get
sports on our phone.
Why we follow the news, I'm notsure, and I did it for years
and in my opinion it's one bigdistraction.
And maybe it's fine to read acouple of headlines.
(27:46):
And, by the way, I'm nottelling people what they should
do.
I think everyone should discernfor themselves what's prudent,
what's not prudent.
I think you should recognizewhere it takes you and if you
can look at the headlines andjust get the drift and figure
out where that does fall intoCatholic Church teaching and
(28:07):
biblical truths, that's great.
But even just other people'schoices and their freedoms were
judging them because they did X,y or Z.
Our Lord says in Matthew 7, notto judge one another, because
as you judge them you will bejudged, and how harsh you judge
them, the same treatment ofharshness will be judged upon
(28:30):
yourself and the whole logsplinter in the eye.
And so Jesus is the judge whenhe comes back.
So we don't need to be judgingother people, and I think we
need to focus on unity and focus.
The same goes for apologetics.
If you're talking to aProtestant who's not Catholic
(28:51):
and you want to school them onall of our beautiful truths, we
do have to speak the truth andlove, and so it's often so
helpful to speak in terms ofunity.
Here's what we have in common.
Let's start here and then maybewe can talk about what we
disagree on.
But if we have these debates orthings and then we come away
(29:18):
and we're angry with a person orwe're judging them or we're
resenting them, then really itsounds like we're hurting
ourselves.
But if we are building them up,looking at our unity, looking at
how we can strengthen oneanother because iron sharpens
iron then this is a good thing.
This is time well spent.
(29:39):
So I just think, when twopeople are fighting, how can we
unite?
And recognizing that so often.
Sometimes you need a gooddisagreement, sometimes
someone's being treated unfairly, address it have boundaries.
But if it's maybe currentevents and what the media is
(30:04):
pushing, I think we just have tobe really careful of how we get
sucked into these things.
And if we're being divided, Ithink that's the red flag,
because Satan divides.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
Yeah, I completely agree with that.
When you were talking, I wasthinking a lot of the women that
come to me have during COVID iswhen their alcohol use
escalated, because it justchanged everything.
It really was a lot of pressureand I feel like it just poured
gasoline on the disunity thatwas already rampant at that time
(30:42):
and it just made things reallycrazy.
I guess, if I had to say whatmy COVID addiction was, it
wasn't alcohol, it was the factthat I did get so wrapped up in
politics, which I had not beenin before.
I was so wrapped up in what Ithought should happen and I
thought I should do, and I wasreally judging other people's
(31:05):
choices against mine and otherCatholics.
And I'm not that person.
That's not who I am before that, it's not who I am after that,
but it's who I was during that.
And thanks sweet God, I woke upand I was like Christy, what
are you doing?
You're mad all the time, you'reangry, you're paranoid, you
have anxiety, which you neverhave, anxiety, and I felt just
(31:29):
so oppressed by the government,by other people's voices, by
other people's opinions and mymom said it, and actually you
talked about it too when youwere talking about when Peter
was walking on the water.
Keep your eyes focused on Jesus.
Like all that other stuff itdoesn't matter.
(31:51):
Keep your eyes fixed on Jesus.
Now, as Catholics, we need to beinformed at some level.
I agree, but I too used to bevery tied to the news.
I don't watch that anymore.
I get my information when Ineed that information.
I mean, I got to tell you thatwe had a big snow and ice storm.
(32:13):
I didn't even know it wascoming until five.
People are like what about thesnow and ice?
I'm like I have no idea whatyou're talking about, and it was
because I don't watch the news.
I don't know what the weatheris going to be.
It's going to be whatever it is, and I'm fine with that because
I can't change it.
And I think sometimes peoplewatch the news or get they make
(32:35):
an idol, and they I say they, Idid it too, so I'm counting
myself as one of they.
We make an idol of things ofthis world and put so much
importance into it, like churchpolitics or American politics,
world politics.
(32:55):
What other people's choices areon different things?
There are things that areimportant, but again, we need to
put on our Christian worldviewglasses and look at it through
those lenses, look at it throughthe eyes of Jesus.
Sit with God.
Like you were saying, we have afriendship with Jesus and when
(33:18):
we sit with him and when we askLord, what is your?
What do you want me to knowabout this situation?
What do you need me to do?
What are you calling me to do?
What is the holy discontentthat I'm feeling?
What do you want me to do withthat?
That's where we're going to notstay stuck in the confusion that
(33:45):
Satan wants us to be in.
That's where we're not going tostay stuck, worried about what
other people are doing or whatother people are thinking.
That is going to give us thefreedom to just live joyfully
and increase our faith, which isgoing to increase our love,
(34:06):
which is going to help us reachout to those where we can and
just shine Christ's light andlove and, most of all, give them
that message of mercy.
Jesus is there for you, he'swaiting for you.
Like that St John Paul II quote.
I love it.
Like it is Jesus that you seekwhen you dream of happiness.
(34:29):
He is waiting for you whennothing else satisfies you.
We look around this world and wesee people trying to.
I live in Washington.
Marijuana is legal here.
There are marijuana shopseverywhere, brightly colored
neon everywhere and they'resaying here, here's your comfort
(34:50):
, this is going to make you feelgood, this is going to make you
not be so anxious or be able todeal with life.
That is a lie.
That is such a lie.
That is a trap.
Alcohol is a trap.
Pornography is a trap.
Scrolling is a trap.
But here's the thing God givesus pleasures to enjoy right,
(35:14):
ordered sex in the context ofmarriage, for intimacy between a
husband and wife, forprocreation.
That is good, that is noble.
That is what it was created for.
Alcohol is not an evil thing.
Like people can have it andenjoy it and seek pleasure from
(35:34):
it.
But it's the disordered.
I'm using it as a crutch, I'musing it as a tool.
I'm overusing it, I'mover-consuming.
That is where it becomesdisordered and that's where it
can cause problems.
And the same thing withtechnology we're able to talk to
each other and talk to youthrough the amazing wonders and
(35:57):
gifts of technology, but it canbe misused so, so badly.
So it's all about just keepingour eyes on Christ temperance,
moderation, discernment and justdoing what he's asking us to do
.
Speaker 2 (36:18):
Yeah, and I agree with all that, and I got swept
up with the politics as wellaround COVID time.
But then you break out of thatand you realize it's like taking
a fourth step.
In AA we take an inventory ofourselves.
Basically, if I was to do acolumn, how much time did I
(36:38):
spend following the news versushow much time did I spend with
our Lord?
I spent more time with the newsand to me that's embarrassing
because I also agree with whatyou said.
It's good to be informed.
We do need to know what's goingon.
I don't know if we need to know, but it's a good thing because,
for all we know, there's stuffcoming down the pike that we
(37:02):
should be informed about andaware of so that we're ready to
respond.
But are we spending more timeon the news than with our Lord?
And that's for me that's theultimate litmus test.
I want to spend more time withour Lord because, no matter what
comes down the pike and what wehave to deal with in the future
(37:23):
, if I have our Lord I haveeverything and, like you said,
jesus Francis Fernandez says ifI possess Jesus, I have
happiness.
Happiness is to possess Jesusand, like your JP2 quote not
that I don't care about the news, it's just that it wasn't
healthy and to me it was adistraction.
(37:46):
So I can spend that timehelping other guys and growing
community.
But what I love about recovery,christy, is that you have
everyone from every walk of life, that's, if you're at a 12-step
group, you have everyone andeveryone in anyone different
(38:06):
backgrounds.
And then with what we're doing,we're working.
We're trying to work with theCatholic folks because we know
there's such a need in thechurch for this.
Even within the Catholic worldyou still have people on this
side or that side, but itdoesn't mean that they're bad
people.
Their opinions are shaped onwhat they believe is right.
(38:28):
But the beautiful thing withrecovery is those things don't
matter.
What does matter is am I actingout, am I staying sober, am I
getting well?
And typically you figure out howto stop, how to stay stopped,
and then, because you're notinfected and a slave to sin, now
(38:52):
our spiritual life can take offbecause we are free.
We are more free to love ourLord.
None of that other stuffmatters.
And in recovery to mepersonally is because we focus
on kind of these acute problemsFor you why are you drinking so
much, and what can we do todrink less or not at all?
For me, okay, why did you lookat porn last night and how can
(39:18):
we root this out of your life?
And typically it's connectionwith others and connection with
God.
To me, those are the importantthings.
Speaker 1 (39:28):
Yeah, I agree and really you're right.
It's like porn use, alcohol use, drug use, scrolling overeating
All of those are a symptom of agreater need that we're trying
to fill.
And so that's really what thework that you and I do with our
(39:50):
clients respectively is to getto that root.
Because once you get to thatroot then it's a lot easier to,
because you can remove it, likefor alcohol.
You can remove it and for mostpeople, within 30 days 90 days,
actually, about 90 days thoseneuro receptors are already set
(40:12):
and you're back to where you are.
But if you still have that rootcause, then it's very easy to
turn right back to thataddiction, even when everything
else is fine.
You're not addicted to itphysically.
All your neurotransmitters aregood.
(40:33):
You've even maybe changed thehabit of having it at night or
whenever it was, but it's soeasy, as soon as something comes
up, to go straight back to it.
So we have to.
That's really where the soulwork comes in, where we sit with
Jesus, and I think that's partof why I personally want to work
(40:57):
with Catholic women.
We speak the same language.
They understand the importanceof the sacraments and the power
of the sacraments, just like youwere talking about.
We avail ourselves of thesacrament of reconciliation.
We open ourselves up.
God can pour in His grace.
It strengthens our spiritualgifts that we've been given by
(41:20):
virtue of our baptism and thoseare for us, to fortify us and
strengthen us.
And then we have, like, ourcharisms that were given and
those are for the building up ofthe church.
Those are for all of us to worktogether.
And that's you and I are doingthat right now.
Right, we're using our uniquecharisms, our natural talents,
(41:40):
our worldview, our experiencesall of those things that make
you and I uniquely who we areand unrepeatable.
And for all of you listening,you have that same grouping of
experiences, of natural talents,of charisms to work together.
When we do that and we havethat community and that support,
(42:03):
it makes it so much easier toget to the root of the problem
and just rip that right out sothat we can be free and we can
be open.
Now does that mean we're gonnago out, we're not gonna send?
No, I still spend too much timeon Instagram sometimes.
I will sometimes overspend orovereat or whatever it is,
(42:25):
overindulgent things, but onceyou have that awareness, you can
stop yourself and be like waita second, what's really going on
?
Like you said, steve, a lot oftimes, it's connection for all
of us, for whatever that thatvice is, that we're holding on
to it's feelings of unworthiness.
It's just seeking connection.
(42:46):
It could be that we're tired.
What's that?
You're hungry, angry, lonely,tired.
What do you think about that,oh?
Speaker 2 (42:54):
you're right on it's.
Yeah, we have to right, we haveto use these gifts and I think
I do think the world isdefinitely pushing us in a
direction and there there havebeen some kind of unified voices
these past few years.
(43:15):
And so what was interesting tome is our lady, 158 years ago at
La Salette, said all the civilgovernments will have one and
the same plan, which will be toabolish and do away with every
religious principle to make wayfor materialism, atheism,
(43:38):
spiritualism and vice of allkinds, for disorder and the love
of carnal pleasures will bespread all over the earth.
So once again, 150 plus yearsago, all civil governments will
have one in the same plan itfeels like that it does
(43:59):
Abolishing religious principles.
Our country some people saywe're in a post-Christian
America Still Christianity isvery strong here, but further
and further we seem to begetting away with it.
Materialism, consumerism,endless shopping how easy is it
to buy anything on Amazon andhave it appear the next morning?
(44:22):
Atheism you think of the spreadof communism which has been
around for so long Spiritualismperhaps our lady speaking of
this new agey, spiritual but notreligious, vice of all kinds
alcohol, pornography, affairsand, like you said, drugs carnal
(44:43):
pleasures will spread all overthe earth.
It's pretty profound.
And then you look at our ladyof Fatima, who came along I
don't know what 70 years laterand she tells Sister Lucia that
the final battle between theLord and the reign of Satan will
be about marriage and thefamily.
And you think of divorce, youthink of the harmful effects
(45:09):
that has on children, and thenthose children don't want to get
married nowadays.
Then they're not havingchildren.
You look at how rampantabortion is.
You look at how some people areconfused about who they are.
You can definitely feel thetentacles that Satan has over
(45:29):
the earth.
Now there's great hope becauseour Lord wins in the end and I
think we all know that God wins.
That's right in the Bible andour lady will crush the head of
Satan.
So we've got to stay close toour lady.
And so there's great hope.
But it doesn't mean that therewon't be these sufferings that
we all will need to endure,because our Lord endured them on
(45:53):
the cross.
But there is good news.
I think it's building community, getting with like-minded
people, building each other upin holiness.
This universal call to holinessSaint Paul said 2,000 years ago
behold, now is a very acceptabletime.
Now is a very acceptable time.
(46:14):
Now is a good time to bond withone another.
Let's put our differences aside.
Let's make sure that, if you doscroll, that you've already
prayed to our Lord during theday.
Give to God the first fruits,give him your time, give him
your talent, give him yourtreasure, and then you can do
some scrolling if you want to.
But let's make sure we'rebuilding each other up, that we
(46:39):
are not staying divided, becausethat's what Satan wants.
So, whether we are in a time ofa remnant church, we're called
to look at the signs of thetimes.
Good is being called to, evilis being called good.
Maybe we're close, maybe we'renot, but I think we are always
(47:01):
called to do God's will.
So it makes it easier whenyou're in community.
Recovering from any of thesecrutches and coping mechanisms
is easier with one another.
Instead of leaning, the Biblesays lean out on your own
understanding.
So let us not lean on our ownunderstanding.
(47:21):
Work with a coach if you need acoach.
Work with Christy if you needhelp in this area of your life.
Like she said at the beginning,if you're listening to this and
you've listened before and youfeel like you need help or it's
your first time coming across us.
Maybe our Lord put this infront of you Not trying to
manipulate you or anything likethat, right?
(47:43):
But maybe just looking at, wow,how did I come across this?
Why did God put this in frontof me?
So, anyways, we're here.
We're Catholics that love ourLord, that need mercy, that
still screw up, that go toconfession, but that love our
Lord and try to stay on theright path and keep our eyes
(48:04):
fixed on Him.
Speaker 1 (48:07):
I think that the world will be such a more
beautiful place if we can juststart there.
People don't necessarily wantour words.
They want to see God's love inaction.
Speaker 2 (48:20):
And recovery is all about action, it's not about our
intentions.
And yet another great scriptureversus that, when you think, oh
man, what if hard times arecoming?
Or even if they're here now?
Not to be afraid.
John Paul II was always sayingbe not afraid.
Echoing the words of our Lord,and again from the Bible, it
says perfect love, cast out allfear and speaking of fear.
(48:44):
As we're recording today, thechurch celebrates the Feast of
St Polycarp.
Interesting name, polycarp, buthe was, along with Ignatius of
Antioch, a disciple of John theapostle, and then followers of
Polycarp were Irenaeus andTurtulians.
I think Polycarp was 86 when hewas martyred, was burned at the
(49:08):
stake in 155 AD, but he wasn'tabout to turn away from our Lord
.
We have to pray forperseverance during these hard
times, but his example and allthe martyrs should give us
strength and courage not toabandon the cross like 11 out of
(49:28):
the 12 apostles did.
They were not present at thefoot of the cross, so let us
stay close to our Lord at thecross.
There is hope.
And I don't know, was it notSaint Joan of Arc who said I was
born for such a time as this?
So, even if things are hard,that's the way of the Christian,
(49:49):
and it's actually very excitingtimes if you can look at it
from that way.
So if you need help in any ofthese areas, reach out to
Christy myself.
We are happy to help.
We'll point you in the rightdirection.
I know for me.
You can go oncatholicsfightporncom and book a
free 20-minute call with me andfigure out if it's right that
(50:13):
we work together or not.
I'm sure Christy offers thesame thing, but really having a
firm foundation of sobrietygives us the freedom to break
free from sin and to fully livethe life that God has called us
to live.
Speaker 1 (50:32):
Amen, I think you said it well.
So thank you so much, steve,for this very worthwhile
conversation.
I think we could have talkedfor hours, but we have to keep
it short.
So well, we did not keep itshort, but we had to keep it to
a time limit.
(50:52):
So I think that, as Steve wassaying, if you need help, we are
both here for you.
You can find me at thecatholicsobrietycoachcom or on
Instagram at thecatholicsobrietycoach, and let's
have this conversation, anotherconversation like this again.
Speaker 2 (51:11):
And I'm on Instagram at Catholic Recovery.
Now, if you struggle with theinternet, stay off the internet,
but if it's okay, check us outand we're happy to help.
Speaker 1 (51:23):
Thank you so much and we will talk again soon.
Speaker 2 (51:26):
Thanks, Christie.
Have a great day you too.
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