"We've gone down this path of expecting little humans to sit when they're not developmentally made to sit this long. Brains don't learn like this," says Prerna Richards, founder of Together We Grow.
In this episode, Prerna walks us through how to use developmentally appropriate practices to de-stress teachers and children. Prerna says early childhood education programs are seeing aggressive behaviors and shares how child care staff can use DAP to take the stress out of learning to create a better environment for children and themselves.
These tips include recognizing that attention-seeking behavior is a relationship-seeking need and how to move past just surviving.
To reach Prerna or learn more about her work, visit www.togetherwegrow.online and check out her YouTube channel for informative videos. You also can find her on Facebook, LinkedIn and Instagram!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:08):
Welcome to the Childcare Business Podcast,
brought to you by ProCareSolutions. This podcast is all
about giving childcare ,preschool, daycare, after
school , and other earlyeducation professionals. A fun
and upbeat way to learn aboutstrategies and inspiration you
can use to thrive. You'll hearfrom a variety of childcare
(00:29):
thought leaders, includingeducators, owners, and industry
experts on ways to innovate, tomeet the needs of the children
you serve. From practical tipsfor managing operations to
uplifting stories oftransformation and triumph,
this podcast will be chock fullof insights you can use to
fully realize the potential ofyour childcare business. Let's
(00:50):
jump in.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Welcome to the Childcare Business Podcast. And
I know I say that intro everytime, but , uh, you know, once
again, excited about our guesttoday. And this is, I believe,
a first on our podcast, arepeat , uh, guest. And so I'm
excited to welcome back PreenaRichards , uh, prea . I'm gonna
(01:17):
actually give you a littleopportunity to introduce
yourself again to our audience.
Uh, you know, I know thatyou're the CEO and founder of
Together We Grow. You'reextremely passionate about the
ECE space and the work that youand your team are doing with,
with providers and, andteachers and children across
the country. Uh, I wannawelcome you back to the show
(01:38):
and give you an opportunity tomaybe reintroduce yourself to
our audience. So, good morning.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
Good morning. Hi Ryan, and thank you for
bringing me back. I didn'trealize I was the first one to
have a repeat , uh, visit onthe podcast. How exciting is
that?
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Yeah, you feel that should make you feel really
special. I mean, this is likean, an honor, and I could be
wrong. We'll have to have ourmarketing team, correct me if
I'm wrong, but I believe thisis at least one of very few
repeat guests. So , um, we'reexcited.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
I am super excited and feeling quite honored and
very loved and special rightnow. So thank you for that
invite. Um, so a tiny bit aboutme. I won't bo too many , too
much details about this, but alittle bit about me. So I've
been in the field of earlychildhood for 38 years. Love
it, love it, love it.
Absolutely. Super passionateabout it. And , um, you are
(02:32):
right. About six years ago, Istarted my own business called
Together We Grow And TogetherWe Grow, provides three
services, professionaldevelopment , um, behavior
coaching, and any YCconsulting. Um, but my, my PD
space is, is a very nichespace. I'd like to talk about
the brain, the behaviors, play,challenging behaviors, trauma,
(02:57):
social, emotional learning,team building. That's, that's
my jam. That's what I wannatalk about and make a
difference , um, in that space.
Also, I'm a behavior coach, soI have a coaching membership
online, but I also coach inperson . And then of course,
you know, programs that want togo for high quality and
development appropriatepractices, which happens to be
(03:18):
our topic today.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
It is our topic today. And you come to this, to
this role, to this industry, tothe business that you started
six years ago , um, from where,walk us through and just for
our audience, for those of youwho might not remember, if you
wanna go back and listen toepisode 19, back in November of
2021, we had PREA on the showand talked a little bit about
(03:44):
her background, which itactually PREA is really
interesting. I know we doveinto a little bit about, you
know, your early years growingup in India. Your husband, I
believe, from Scotland made areally big move to a different
part of the world, also spentsome time in Hawaii, which is
where you were really exposedto , um, ECE and following in ,
(04:04):
falling in love with, with thiswork. Uh, anything else you
would add about your backgroundand how you got into the work
that you do right now? Wow.
Speaker 3 (04:14):
Wow. Yeah . That's amazing. That's impressive
because I don't know what Isaid yesterday. You remember
what I said in 21 ? . I'm guessing you
reheard it, but No, that is alltrue. We were in Hawaii and
then we've been in Texas nowfor 25 plus years. Um, this
really was not my plan. My, myeducation in India was in
(04:36):
interior design, and then wehad our daughters and we were
in Scotland, and I wanted to bea big part of , uh, you know,
their early childhood. And sothis kind of found me. And so I
would like to say that this wasmore of a divine plan than pre
not plan. And I'm in this fieldknowing that now this is my
(04:56):
calling and that this is whereI'm supposed to make a
difference in. And really, Ithink what happened is
education in India is superdry, super boring, super non
brain engaging. And so I hatededucation when I was growing
up. It was so drill and killand sit and get. But when I ,
of early childhood for myundergrad, I had found like,
(05:20):
wow, I can't stop learningabout the brain. I can't stop
learning about the kids. Right?
It's, it's just because thecontent and the delivery
resonated with me coming fromeducation background that I
didn't like, get me out ofhere. I don't learn anything in
school..
Speaker 2 (05:36):
Yeah. And so you gravitated toward , and it's
probably a good segue, youknow, in terms of some of the
content and what we want totalk about today. 'cause I, I,
I know you've talked a lotabout the importance of brain
development in these first fiveyears, and we talked about it
the last time you were on theshow. I think a lot of our
audience is familiar with the ,the importance of birth through
(05:58):
five and the amount of braindevelopment that goes into it.
I believe last time we spoke,you had the quote that was 90%
of of a child's brain isdeveloped by the time they're
five years old. And, and that,that kind of weaves in with the
topic today of talking aboutdevelopmentally appropriate
practices. Can you define whatthat is and why you're
(06:21):
passionate about it?
Speaker 3 (06:23):
That's a great place to start this conversation.
Yes. So 90% of the braindevelopment is happening, birth
to five . And what does thatmean if we just unpack this
research, right? This researchis coming out that the early
years are impactful. They canabsolutely lay the foundation
for the rest of our life. So Ilike to think of it, what
happens early in life lasts alifetime. That's another way of
(06:47):
thinking of 90% braindevelopment. What happens early
in life lasts a lifetime. Ifyou are a grownup struggling
with, you know, life issues andyou're in therapy, my heart
goes out to you because it ,you know, and I'm grateful for
therapists, don't get me wrong,but it's so much more expensive
and harder to fix somethingthan raise it right? And we can
(07:08):
get away with what happens tous in our early years. It just
becomes part of our life story,life history. And so keeping
that in mind, the programs thatwe are serving through ProCare
is exactly that space. Earlychildhood and developmentally
appropriate practice has becomelike a hot potato right now.
(07:29):
Some people love it, somepeople hate it. There's a new
reaction to it. There's, peoplehave an opinion about this. And
so I wanna start off theconversation by explaining
where I'm coming from and whatI think of developing the
appropriate practice means tome, developing the appropriate
practice has two parts, as faras I'm concerned. It is age
(07:51):
appropriate, but also it has tobe individual appropriate. So
what can that three-year-olddo? But then what does this
little human being in front ofme, this little Sophie, this
little Alex, what does thatlittle human know and do and
can , can show us? What , whatdo they need from us? So
developmentally appropriate isjust that, you know, NAYC ,
(08:13):
most of us are familiar withnational association education
of young children. This is theo this is the National
Association in America, I donot believe is international
yet, as far as I know, it'snational. In America , they
came up with this phrasedevelopmentally appropriate and
best practices. So I've beenpart of NAYC now for the past
(08:35):
30 years. And what I like aboutNCI is that it's based on
research. So it's not justrandomly somebody sitting in a
room and just saying, Hmm ,let's do this to children. You
know, there's actual brainresearch going on. Their
standards align with what'sbest for children. So NACI had
(08:56):
this tagline, developing theappropriate practices are best
practices. In 2021, they did aplay summit, DAP Equity Summit,
and maybe somebody in youraudience was attending that. I
had the pleasure of attendingit. They have now changed the
phrase. So instead of sayingdap, I'm just gonna call it
(09:19):
dap, but that's okay.
Developing the appropriatepractice is a mouthful.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
You get, you get to call it whatever you want.
You're the star of the show. SoI like it. We'll call it dap,
Speaker 3 (09:27):
Just call it dap, just to keep it tight, right?
So they first said DAP was bestpractices. Now they're saying
it's not best for everybody, sowe gotta go with high quality.
So DAP becomes high quality,but it's not one thing. It's a
way of thinking. And we canunpack that more. So that's
(09:50):
what it means to me, that it'sage appropriate, it's
individual appropriate. We arestretching the rubber band for
children. We are not making itso challenging or so easy that
they get frustrated or they getover challenged and give up it
. It's meeting them wherethey're at.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Do you , where did this, where did the focus on
this come from? I'm curious.
Meaning is it the research thatyou referenced earlier, is it
actually looking at outelementary school and middle
school, high school, evencollege, and then enter the
workforce and doing studies andresearch about, you know, what
(10:27):
their education or lack ofeducation looked like from zero
to five, and then trying toreverse engineer that? Or I'm
curious, what type of researchwent into establishing these
practices?
Speaker 3 (10:41):
Um , great question.
Wonderful question. So I thinkit's a bit of both. So Head
Start has done a lot ofresearch. Uh , education
agencies have done a lot ofresearch. And NACI happens to
be where the research birth tofive , uh, birth to eight, NACI
has extended it. Now birth toeight , um, is focused knowing
(11:05):
that how can children besuccessful in elementary and
beyond ? Which is yourquestion, how did we end up
here? And I think what ended uphappening is they learned more
about child growth anddevelopment, which of course,
you know, our college coursesand people learn this as a
study and they get bachelor'sand masters and PhDs in it. And
what they're realizing is braindevelopment, child growth and
(11:27):
development has some componentsthat sets you up for success.
So, you know, head Start , I'veworked with Head Start and
their goal is to get familiesoff of Head Start so that the
cycle is not repeated for thenext generation. And they rely
heavily on the research thatNACE is doing to say, how can
we give all children the beststart in life so that they
(11:49):
break the cycle of poverty?
Head Start is an amazingprogram. I'm so grateful it
exists. But the point of thatis to give you skills, life
skills so that you can besuccessful and be thriving
versus repeating the cycle ofpoverty that your previous
generations had. Right? So toanswer your question, yes, it
was a combination ofunderstanding child growth and
(12:09):
brain development,understanding how some things
that become part of who we areas part of brain development
goes, sets up us for success.
Like executive function skills,right? Executive function
skills happen to be problemsolving, critical thinking ,
um, creative thinking , uh,regulation, core regulat ,
these are life skills that weknow we are gonna need.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
That's exactly right. And I, that's what I was
going to get to is, you know,at a macro level talking about
what DAP is and the concept ofit. But I think what would be
helpful is just on a microlevel , tactically in a
classroom, what does that looklike? Because you're talking
about appropriate activities,it's developmentally
(12:53):
appropriate for the age of thechild and the individual. And
I'm sure that's difficult ifI'm a teacher that has a
classroom with a range of , uhmm-hmm , , you
know , maybe developmentlevels, even personalities. And
like you said, there's a lot ofother factors outside of the
classroom that impact thatstudent. What's going on at
(13:15):
home and what happened in theirfirst three years of life.
Mm-Hmm, . So Iguess my question is, if I'm a
teacher, mm-hmm ,, and you can take this
wherever you wanna take it ,uh, prea , but I would ask,
what does it look like topractice DAP in my classroom?
And what does it look like ifI'm not maybe is a question
(13:35):
that I have? What's thedifference?
Speaker 3 (13:36):
Love it. Love it, love it. Let's go there. Let's
give practical strategies. Whatdoes this theory look like now
that we understand theimportance of it? How do I show
up and do this in my everydayclassroom and everyday program?
So two parts. One thing is toremember that DAP is not a
specific activity becausepeople ask me all the time, is
this a DAP activity for infantsand toddlers or preschool? So
(13:59):
DAP is not an activity, DAP isa way of thinking. So my
mindset changes when I look atdevelopmentally appropriate
from a child's perspective. Sothey, so we emphasize being
responsive, responsive soundsand feels and looks different
than being unresponsive. Soresponsive doesn't mean I'm on
(14:21):
top of the kids hovering them.
I'm right there. I'm not givingthem space. Responsive means I
am present, I'm being paying, Iam paying attention to when the
children need scaffolding andwhen do I need to back off. So
DAP is a way of thinking. It'sapproaching teaching,
(14:43):
recognizing brain development,recognizing that how does a
child's brain get wired? How dothe neurons make a connection?
It has three components. So thetwo parts are be responsive and
make it with equity. So beforeI go down the three parts to
it, the mindset is I am beingresponsive, I'm being present,
(15:04):
I'm being available, I ammeeting the needs in the
present moment. Equity meansthat I'm personalizing it. So
with equity, the way I like tothink of equity is it's a
fertilizer. When we bring theangle of equity, it changes the
way I'm going to personalizethe teaching. That doesn't mean
I have to have different lessonplans for my 14 children. What
(15:27):
that means is that you can dothis on your own and you need a
little bit more time to exploreit and understand it before you
do it. So allowing them thespace and doing it. And it
doesn't mean that I have tocreate many different lesson
plans. What it means is as Ibring the appropriate practices
to the classroom, so let'sstick with a three year ,
(15:48):
4-year-old classroom,preschool, pre-K classroom,
just for our conversation'ssake, right now, what we know
about DAP is that we need tohave these components in our,
in our teaching strategy,something where the children
have choices. So choicesengages the brain, because I
also like to say choices equalsvoices. How many opportunities
(16:12):
are you giving children duringthe day to make a choice? Can
they choose the toy? Can theychoose the play? Can they
choose the friend? Can theychoose where to sit? Can they
choose the song? Can theychoose the book? Like the ,
these are areas I can give themchoices that doesn't affect my
lesson plan. I can weave thatin, right? That's my way of
thinking. I'm thinking in a waythat I wanna give you a voice.
(16:33):
So I'm gonna throughout my day,make you inclusive. So the
teacher's not the sage on thestage, the teacher is part of
the school family community.
And it's an approach, it's athinking. So choices, how many
opportunities am I givingchildren to have choices? The
second one is wonder andexperience. How many ways am I
going to bring something in myroom that makes them have the
(16:56):
sense of wonder that makes themhave the sense of discovery
that makes them want toexperience and explore? Right?
And the third part is, what amI doing in my classroom that is
bringing joy and delight?
Because we know the emotion ofjoy is the emotion of learning.
(17:17):
When my brain is joyful, whenmy brain is excited, my brain
is going to learn. Becausethat's when the brain neurons
are just like, oh my God, tellme more . Oh my God, that's so
cool, right? That brain getsexcited for learning. So if I'm
in my preschool classroom,surely I can include choice in
my circle time. Surely I caninclude choice in my
(17:38):
transitions. Surely I can ubring them choices in the type
of movement they want to have.
And the type of, I'll give youan example. Maybe examples are
really helpful. I had a teacherwho said to me, you know, my
classroom is a hot mess and,and the behaviors are off the
charts right now, which is notunusual. And she's a really
(18:01):
good teacher. She really wantsto do the right thing, but she
just can't get through to thekids because she is, the
behaviors are over here. Andone of the things I said to her
was this, for this week, I wascoaching her and I said, for
this week, your homework is togive them choices, as many
choices as you can throughoutthe day. And she said , what
does that mean? I said, everytime you are gonna make a
(18:23):
decision about reading a book,singing a song, doing anything,
I want you to ask the kids whatwould you like to do? This one
or this one, this one or thisone. I just want you to start
doing this. And she said, so Imet her the week, the next week
after, and I said, how is itgoing? And she said , Trina ,
my classroom is different.
We've had no, no fighting, nocrying, no pushbacks . And I
(18:46):
said, what happened? What didyou change? And she said, every
day I would go to school and Iwould say, I have to give the
children choices. That was mymantra for the day. And she
said, every day I give , keptgiving them little by little.
And what I realized was Ididn't realize how much control
I was doing when I startedreleasing the choices. She had
an aha moment that said, oh myGod, I was so controlling. And
(19:10):
guess what? The behaviors werecoming because she was
controlling.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
Yeah. And I was just gonna ask you to elaborate on
that, which is what you justdid, which is, I, I think a lot
of teachers likely are scaredto allow that many choices
because the fear of losingcontrol, like it's gonna be
chaos and kids are gonna be,you know, bouncing off the
walls. But I think what I'mhearing you say is by providing
(19:34):
opportunities for children tomake choices, it's going to
encourage and foster thatenvironment where they're
learning what they need to belearning.
Speaker 3 (19:44):
And also the brain is excited and they're having
fun, right? So this teacher,she, the last day when I spoke
to her, I just wanna finish herstory because she gave me such
a clear example. She said, Inormally would not have brought
out the rhythm sticks and thescarves, like the control goes
to that level. She said,normally I would not have
bought that out because theclassroom would've become a
(20:05):
chaotic hot mess and I wouldnot have been able to deal with
it. Because she had built theramp of giving them choices on
Friday. They said, can we havethe scarves? And she said ,
sure, why not? She gave themclear guidelines. She said,
don't throw, don't hit, don'tscream. If any of this happens.
We put the scarfs away. And Iasked her , I said, what
(20:26):
happened? She said, guess what?
I didn't have to correct theirbehaviors. They were so happy,
they were so excited, they wereso enjoying it that we just
went with the flow. And I am adifferent teacher now. I am
going to seriously not be ascontrolling as I was before.
But you know, you brought upsomething really important and
I wanna go forward with thatright now. Behaviors are off
(20:48):
the charts. Stress is
Speaker 2 (20:51):
When , when you say, when you say off the charts,
define what you mean by that.
When you say behaviors are offthe charts.
Speaker 3 (20:56):
Extreme, extreme aggression, extreme anger,
extreme meltdowns, extremepushbacks, defiance, rudeness,
you name it, it's happening inour programs. The behaviors are
off the charts, but also thestress is off the charts. And
here's my analogy that I justliterally came up with it this
morning. It is that earlychildhood right now is in the
(21:20):
emergency room. We have reachedthe emergency room. And as a
behavior specialist, I'mgetting called in, but our
teachers are on the gurney, ourchildren are on the gurney, and
I'm expected to do triage.
Mm-Hmm . . We aredoing a triage. And you know,
definition of triage is quickassessment. What do we need to
(21:44):
do to help this situation,which is life and death. Early
childhood right now is in theemergency room. The behaviors
are telling us that the stressis way up there, which is
really good job security as abehavior coach. But we cannot
continue like this and wecannot raise the next
generation with this muchstress.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
Can I ask your opinion on why that's the case?
You've been in the industry fora long time, and what I'm
hearing you say is, when I walkinto a classroom environment
today, Mm-Hmm , ,it's different than it was 10
years ago or 20 years ago whenI started. Mm-Hmm .
. In your opinionand experience, why is that?
Speaker 3 (22:27):
I think it's a very societal thing that's happening
right now. We're all livingunder a lot of divisions,
stress, anxiety, reactions, andfamilies are under more stress.
Parents are more under distress. They don't have the time for
the kids. The kids come to theprogram already not having
(22:49):
their emotional needs met. Andthe the staff is the same
reflection of what's happeningbecause they're getting
stressed out and they're goinghome. And so I have , um, this
is my , uh, my taking, I had towrite this down because I was
just like, oh my God, thismakes so much sense to me. So
as a triage doctor, here's mythinking, here's the cause.
(23:12):
T-C-C-L-I love acronyms, Ryan ,I think you know this about me
because that's the only way Ican remember anything in my
braint. CCL is the cause. Thisis my diagnosis that what is
happening. The first one isthere's triggered educators, I
might even say adults ingeneral, parents, teachers just
triggered, just stressed out.
The second thing that'shappening for the sea is a lot
(23:34):
of command and demand ishappening. We are putting a lot
of emphasis on compliance. Andthat shows up in SOS sit down,
be obedient, and be silent. Mm. So, because we don't know
what else to do, we are tryingto control them. Right? And
that becomes a third. Thesecond C, the TCC. So the
second C is controlling adults.
(23:55):
It shows up in controlling playmovement, toys. And it's not
developmentally appropriatebecause their brain is not
being engaged and they'rereacting. And the last l, the
TCCL is, this is leading toextremely frustrated children.
So their behaviors arehappening, which is challenging
the grownups, right? It's allconnected. You are trying to
(24:19):
control me. You stressed out,you don't listen to me, you
don't understand me. So Ireact. You react, we all react
and the cycle continues. Sothis is my diagnose as the
specialist. This is my diagnosewhy you're in the emergency,
right? If you go to emergency,you're gonna have a doctor
triage or cause Okay, what'sthe cause what's this , what's
(24:39):
the remedy ? So here's myremedy. The remedy comes in.
Well, D, SD right? Do somethingdifferent. That's, that's like
what's working, what we aredoing right now, we gotta
change. We got a D, s, D ,right? That's the , that's
where I'm starting this. Andthe solution is SEP,
Speaker 2 (24:57):
We are, we are gonna do acronyms today on, on every
Totally . Totally . I like it.
So we've got T, C , C , L . Yep. Then we need D, S , D . Yes .
And now we're gonna SEP, let'shear. That's
Speaker 3 (25:10):
Explanation . That's your medicine. Okay . So I'm ,
I'm giving a medicine. So, butfirst, you know, before we,
right, if you go to anemergency, the doctor's gonna
diagnose what's the problem,right ? Before we get on the
solution. That's the, so doesdoes the cause make sense to
you before I go forward withthe solution? Does that cause
make sense?
Speaker 2 (25:28):
It does make sense.
And I think what I'm hearingyou say also is the behaviors
we see might be symptoms ofwhat's actually happening deep
within a child's brain or theiremotion. And same thing when
you go to a , you know, an er,they're gonna see your
symptoms, but your issue isn't,you know, a a , a headache.
(25:48):
There's something else going onthat's causing that. And so it
makes total sense.
Speaker 3 (25:52):
I you are spot on.
Ryan. Behavior is a form ofcommunication. What we are
seeing on the outside, theseextreme behaviors that we are
seeing on the outside from thegrownups and the children, let
me just emphasize thatbehaviors are not just coming
from the children. Behaviorsare also coming from the
grownups because they'recontrolling, because they want
them to sit and listen and beobedient. And they don't give
(26:13):
them the freedom becausethey're scared that they'll get
the hot chaos. But there'sbackfiring. So, SEP, what does
that stand for? Sort, emphasizeand prioritize. So first of
all, we have to sort out thebrain states. And we have to
understand that when I'm in myscared brain, the behavior
looks different. When I'm in myemotional brain, the behavior
looks different, then I need tofigure out the responses. So we
(26:36):
gotta sort out the brain states. We also gotta sort out what
is triggering me. So forexample, I can't stand it when
kids don't listen. I have fourgrandchildren, but people not
listening is a big trigger tome. Like, come on, I've already
said it like five times, like,why do I have to repeat myself?
But I've come up with asolution for that, right? I,
I'm not telling them I'mfeeling ignored. Ignoring is
(26:57):
not a good emotion. So I gottago with it. I gotta sort out my
brain state that I'm gettingemotional about it, I'm getting
frustrated. Then I have to havea plan with my triggers. Also,
recognizing that a lot of thebehaviors that are happening
are attention seeking . So whenchildren's emotional brain is
(27:18):
empty, when their buckets areempty, they're gonna act out. I
was coaching a school yesterdayand she said to me, she said,
the teacher is so fed up andtired and exhausted, and she's
checked out because the kidsare hitting her, ignoring her,
yelling at her. And she's justhad it up to here. And so they
were out in the playground andthe boys in the pre-K classroom
(27:38):
were peeing on
Speaker 2 (27:41):
Each other . Okay, sounds like a fun day.
Speaker 3 (27:43):
No, but this is like extreme attention seeking ,
right? These boys are so hungryfor attention that they're
willing to do that. They'refour years old, they know
better, but they're trying toget connected to somebody. I'm
gonna do this. Even if you lookat me, just call me. That's
what I'm doing right now. I'mdoing attention seeking to that
level. Yeah. Does that makesense? We are in the emergency
(28:05):
room doing stuff like thisright now. We can't do this
anymore. 90% of the brain isgetting wired. We are wasting
these years. And so that's thes we gotta sort out the brain,
sort out the triggers. And thene is, we gotta emphasize on
relationships. We gotta go backto the basics. We gotta commit,
connect with our hearts. And ithas to be a connection between
(28:25):
the administrators, thecoaches, the teachers, the
children. We have got tounderstand each other from our
heart connection, not the headconnection. We gotta teach to
the heart first before we teachto the head. And that's also D
right? I'm individualizing it.
Some days are learning days andsome days are loving days. You
just need to be hugged today.
Okay? Forget that. And youknow, when I was explaining
(28:47):
earlier with making it choicesand wonder and delight paper,
like did sheets won't do thatto the brain. That's just
boring. You are wasting papermaking hundreds of copies. It
doesn't engage the brain,right? The sense of wonder has
to come with what new thing doyou have in my room? So I hope
you're understanding that thisis not a one and thing. It's a
, it's a mindset. We look atthe whole thing and then we
(29:12):
connect with the children. Andthe piece stands for
prioritizing connect before youCorrect. Connect before you,
correct. The more we connectwith someone, the less we'll
correct. So for example, whatdoes that sound like, look
like? If the , if these werepreschool boys that I was
dealing with and they weredoing this behavior on the
playground, instead of justcorrecting them and saying,
(29:32):
stop doing that, and that'sinappropriate. That's not what
you do. This is not bathroom,blah, blah, blah. I would've
gone up to them and said , whathappened? How come you're doing
that? What is this about?
What's going on? What are youfeeling? Right? So connect
before you, correct. Soundslike ask and then tell. But we
are so programmed to jumpinginto telling that we forget to
(29:54):
ask. There's a reason why thekids are doing this. Ask them
at two, they could tell you atthree, they could tell you they
know what's happening, butnobody's asking them.
Speaker 2 (30:05):
Yeah. That's interesting. You know,
observations, because youobviously talk to a lot of
teachers and, and when you talkabout the behaviors that
they're seeing in theclassrooms with these students,
the reality is the teachersalso are dealing classroom that
they're bringing into theclassroom. And so I, I love
what I'm hearing and, andcorrect me if I'm wrong on
(30:25):
this, but a lot of what we needto do to help these kids and
maybe change the narrative ofwhat you just described, kids
being in the er so to speak asan analogy, is we gotta help
the teachers first and theteachers als need to understand
what's happening in theirclassroom is a symptom. And we
(30:46):
have to go tr treat the rootcause, which is mm-hmm ,
the things thatyou're just talking about
caring for that . I think
Speaker 3 (30:52):
We need to do a webinar on this because we , we
can't just do it in a ta littlenuggets on the top. Like, we
gotta go deep with this contentbecause I really feel this is,
this is important. We can dobetter when we know better. But
so many grownups don't knowanything about the brain. I'm
shocked, I'm surprised as Italk to teachers, they're like,
I had no idea. I had no idea.
(31:13):
I'm like, you need to knowthis. Yeah , you're developing
the brain. How do you not knowthis? But you can't give what
you don't have a stressed outteacher teaches stress. A
joyful teacher teaches joy. Wecannot do dap unless we are
taking care of the grownups.
The equity has to go with thegrownups too. We're expecting
(31:34):
teachers to do so much, but weare not giving them the tools
of the brain development. Weare not giving them the tools
of social emotional , right? Sohow many of us know about the
vocabulary of co-regulation andcompliance and self-regulation?
So many of us don't know aboutthis. If the grownup is
dysregulated, how are theygonna co-regulate the little
humans?
Speaker 2 (31:56):
Yeah, that makes total sense. And is this
getting back, I'm curious fromyour perspective, are the
things that you're talkingabout now, the developmentally
appropriate practices, thecaring, the bringing joy into
the classroom, bringing wonder,bringing choices. Is this new
methodology or is this justgetting back to the way it used
(32:19):
to be? And we've kind ofdeviated over time and it's
more of, hey, there's, thisisn't new, this is just getting
back to the core.
Speaker 3 (32:26):
This is it. We are doing basics. Yeah . We have
gone down this path of pushingcurriculum down, which is not
appropriate. We've gone downthis path of expecting little
humans to sit when they're notdevelopmentally made to sit
this long. Brains don't learnlike this. And this is the
result why we are in theemergency right now. Because we
(32:47):
have gone so far from what ishow children learn. Children
learn through play, childrenmake sense of play, they make
the world make sense throughplay. And we are shutting down
play. We are controlling play,we are hijacking play. We are
not allowing them the freedomto play. And normal. When you
and I were growing up, I'mprobably older than you, much
(33:07):
older than you, but when wewere growing up, we had
unstructured playtime. That'swhen we were regulating our
bodies. We were out in nature.
Nature has a capacity toregulate us. Now. We are not
now we've taken that away. Andpost covid , I hate to bring
this word up, but post covid ,we have not been able , some
(33:29):
people have not been able toshake the effects of covid on
their brains yet. And so we areliving with the stress brain.
We are living in the survivalbrain. And it shows up when we
can't connect to the littlehumans. The little humans need
connection and they're notgetting it. So we act out the ,
you know, think about it. Whenyou are three years old, you've
(33:50):
been on this planet earth for athousand days. In those
thousand days, you have learnedhow to get your needs met
appropriate, not appropriate,good, bad, doesn't matter. I
need it, I'm gonna get it. Butnow we have a point . Now we've
reached emergency, we gotta dothe triage and we gotta turn
(34:11):
this around . And the good newsis, the schools that I've
coached and I've helped, I haveseen the staff changing. I have
seen their mindsets changing.
And even I was coaching aperson the other day and she
said, our school age room is so, uh, so stressful. There's a
child who just comes inaggressive with an attitude.
She doesn't know what to do,and the teacher just shuts
(34:32):
down. She becomes reactive. AndI said, what do you know about
this child? She said, well, Idon't know much, but what
should I find out? And I said,go spend some time with this
child and find out what thischild likes to do and come to
find out of the sports. And Isaid, your job is to connect
with her every single time shecomes. What's your favorite
team? What , what sports do youlike to do? Just that
(34:54):
one-on-one, one-on-one. Justgive her that attention. And
she said, don't you think it'sbad to give attention when
they're doing negativebehavior? And I said, yeah, but
you also recognize thatattention seeking is a
relationship seeking need.
Mm-Hmm . So give her therelationship and see if the
behavior changes within a week.
The child is not acting upanymore because she's feeling
(35:16):
seen and heard and understood.
And it wasn't a rocket sciencething I said. So what I'm
sharing today is not rocketscience. You don't have to go
by a new curriculum. You justhave to become more human.
Speaker 2 (35:29):
Yeah. Which is amazing. Which is amazing
principle that, you know ,resonates I think with so much
of our audience. I think when Ihear you talk prea and I hear
you kind of lay out some ofthese, you know what I would
say, a lot of acronyms, a lotof modern, you know, kind of
like what we're seeing in theclassroom, but also just
getting back to the basics ofbeing a human being and
(35:50):
actually having compassion andempathy and letting kids be
kids. And I also think when Ihear you talk, that that will
end up also solving some of theother challenge we see in our
industry, which is teachersburning out. Because if a
classroom is not a place of, ofjoy, of wonder, of looking
(36:11):
forward to showing up andseeing those kids every day ,
you're gonna burn out. And Ithink that's one of the, the
symptoms that we're seeing inthe industry right now.
Speaker 3 (36:20):
So , you know, the def Yeah. You know, the You're
spot on. You're spot on. Right, exactly. That is, we just
need to go back to basics,connections with the heart
being human, being available,being compassionate, being
understanding. We are notmachines and we can become
machines. But you know, thedefinition of burnout, you ,
Speaker 2 (36:39):
You I
dunno if I do, I don't , I
don't think I do. Let's hearit. .
Speaker 3 (36:43):
So , so this is my, my understanding of definition,
I i i of burnout, I saw itsomewhere . I'm just like, oh
my god, that resonates with me.
Burnout is when you put outmore and what you get back is
not in proportion. So that'swhat happens to a burnout. I'm
putting out more and I'm notgetting the return back. So if
(37:03):
I'm putting out 120% and I onlyget 40% out back, I'm gonna
probably get burnt out.
Speaker 2 (37:10):
Yeah. You're not refueling your , you're ,
you're , you're gonna be emptyand don't have anything more to
give. And that's gonna createsome of the challenges you're
describing .
Speaker 3 (37:19):
So it could be, I put , I put 120 in my job. I
don't get it back. I put it inmy employees. I don't get it
back. I do put it in mycoworkers . I don't get it
back. I put it for children. Idon't get it back. Whatever is
not coming back to you whereyou feel, where your brain
feels I'm doing more than I'mgetting back. That's when the
burnout starts. And if you'renot careful, the burnout leads
(37:41):
to a full burn up . Like youwould burn up . Like, you know,
I'm traveling a lot for workright now , and I'm meeting so
many Uber drivers and they usedto be teachers.
Speaker 2 (37:50):
Wow .
Speaker 3 (37:50):
And they can't do it anymore. They , our , our
industry has such a mass exitand they've gone to Ubering ,
uh, and this is what happened.
They ended up in the emergencyand they said, no more. I can't
do this life anymore.
Speaker 2 (38:03):
And it becomes systematic too, because I also
have a lot of friends that areeducators in , in higher grades
as well. Mm-Hmm . And I thinkthere's a lot of these same
issues because it starts atzero to five and these kids are
struggling in the classroom,teachers are struggling, and
then it just perpetuatesitself. So it really does in a
lot of ways start Yeah . Withour industry. And, you know,
(38:26):
our share ,
Speaker 3 (38:27):
We did a full circle. We just did a full
circle. We were trying tofigure out why it has to be
early because we are laying thefoundation. And really why I'm
am really more concerned, andthis analogy of the emergency
is really resonating with mybrain right now is because we
can't fail the next generation.
The children who are under fiveright now, think about it. In
20 years they'll be runningthis country. Yeah. They'll be
(38:49):
in 2030 space. Uh , do theyhave the life skills? Do they
have resiliency? Do they havepersistence? Do they have grit?
Do they have tenacity? Are theyproblem solving all children
through developmentallyappropriate play, learn these
skills. But if I'm not allowingyou to play, if I'm controlling
play, and I control you whereyou can play, who you can play
(39:10):
with, what you can move, I'mnot giving you the opportunity
to flex your muscles. So Iwon't have the skills.
Speaker 2 (39:16):
Yeah. And then it's gonna just continue to follow
you, you know, through life.
That, that's one of the thingsthat always strikes me, which I
know it's true. And you talkedabout this even a few years
ago, but how much of that braindevelopment that happens by the
time you go into kindergartenat five years old, 90%. And
that can be an amazing thingbecause it , for a student or a
(39:37):
child that grows up in aloving, nurturing environment
that allows play, allows themto be them and encourages that,
that can actually, you know, bethe foundation that launches
them into life. But you know,the opposite can happen too.
And that's why you know, thework you're doing, and a lot of
these topics are so important.
How can people find you? I knowwe're gonna put this in the
(39:59):
show notes, and I know thatyou're out , um, really being
an evangelist, so to speak forthis topic. And you know, you
can influence and help so manypeople, but I also know there's
other great , uh, you know,coaches and consultants that
are doing some of this work aswell. But for you personally,
preena , how can our audiencefind you if they wanna learn
(40:19):
more about some of these, thesetopics?
Speaker 3 (40:22):
Fabulous. So together we grow online is the
website , um, on Instagram's ,uh, Facebook, LinkedIn. I also
have a YouTube channel togetherwe grow 108, which has got
five, seven minutes brainvideos. But on my website,
there's tons of, tons ofresources you can download for
free. I'm also offering abehavior intervention
specialist certification. Nowwe are wrapping up the first
(40:44):
cohort , uh, which finishes inbeginning of June, but the
second cohort will start inOctober because I want to
really, what I've realized isthat this methodology is
working and it has transformedso many programs. So I wanna
help more people becomecertified so they can help more
(41:04):
teachers and , um, you know ,um, we have to do this
together. We, we cannot ignorewhere we are right now. We just
can't turn our face the otherway. We just can't.
Speaker 2 (41:15):
Yeah. I'm glad there's people like you that
are, you know, fighting thegood fight to go make an impact
here. And I think if I heardyou right on that behavioral
training you were just talkingabout , that's more of train
the trainer. So even thoughit's
Speaker 3 (41:26):
Training the coaches, it coaches , coaches,
it's training the coaches ,coaches , it's training the
coaches. I , I have a hundredcoaches right now in the first
cohort. It just launched inMay. I was blown away with the
interest and there's a waitlist already started for the
next one. So I know there's aneed and we are coaching the
coaches who can then supportthe teachers because when we
know better, we do better. Andthe coaching certification has
(41:48):
got a foundational framework.
It's all brain research, it'sall based on best high quality
practices, but it starts withus knowing our mind inside out.
So you can't just fix thebehavior outside. It has to
change with inside out .
Speaker 2 (42:04):
Yeah. Super important topic, and I really
appreciate you taking more timewith us. I know you're
extremely busy and , and inhigh demand. So the fact that
you take time to be on ourpodcast, and I like your idea
too about a webinar at somepoint. I think these are the
things, you know, obviouslyfrom ProCare's perspective,
we're so involved in thebusiness side of ECE and
(42:25):
obviously trying to enable ourcustomers to be able to build
and run sustainable businesses,but at the end of the day, the
focus for everyone is thesekids. Like the how do we put
these kids in an environmentthat's gonna allow them to
thrive? Because that whole fullcircle conversation that you
brought up earlier aboutthey're gonna move into the
(42:49):
next grade and then into theworkforce. And it's important
that we, you know, all
Speaker 3 (42:54):
Support. So, so Ryan, you brought up something
really important. ProCare issupporting early childhood in
such an important way. And Iappreciate you guys so much.
You're doing an amazing,amazing work and you're such an
amazing resource. And you saidyou're focused on business, but
guess what? Every time you losestaff, that's your bottom line.
That's your financial bottomline. And I don't know if
people know this, but everytime you lose a staff is 3,500
(43:16):
down the drain, you just lose3,500 every single time you
have a staff turnover because,you know, and it, it goes to
everywhere. Dissatisfied staffthat leads to children, the
families, it's your business.
You , you can't separate thetwo.
Speaker 2 (43:31):
Yeah, it's important. I like how you put
an actual numeric value on thecost of turnover because, you
know, you invest in training,you invest in recruiting, you
find that teacher, thatassistant teacher, that you
know, employee, and then youhave to start fresh. There's a
huge impact to the business forsure. And and it impacts the
(43:51):
kids too, because when there'sconstant turnover, those
relationships that you talkedabout earlier are impacted. So
I, I think you're right. It'sall connected. Um, and I'll
tell you what, I I reallyappreciate the conversation,
prea , you're always , um, youknow, full of great content
ideas and, and experience. So ,uh, if you guys are interested,
(44:11):
anybody listening to thispodcast, check out the show
notes. You can find pre at thedifferent places she indicated
earlier. And , um, you know,maybe we will , uh, we'll see
again in the future. prea ,thanks again. Thank
Speaker 3 (44:22):
You Ryan, for this opportunity and thank you for
creating a space where we canhave this important
conversation .
Speaker 1 (44:36):
Thank you for listening to this episode of
the Childcare Business Podcast.
To get more insights on ways tosucceed in your childcare
business, make sure to hitsubscribe in your podcast app
so you never miss an episode.
And if you want even morechildcare , business tips,
tricks, and strategies, headover to our resource
center@procaresoftware.com.
(44:56):
Until next time.
Welcome to the Childcare Business Podcast,
brought to you by ProCareSolutions. This podcast is all
about giving childcare ,preschool, daycare, after
school , and other earlyeducation professionals. A fun
and upbeat way to learn aboutstrategies and inspiration you
can use to thrive. You'll hearfrom a variety of childcare
(00:29):
thought leaders, includingeducators, owners, and industry
experts on ways to innovate, tomeet the needs of the children
you serve. From practical tipsfor managing operations to
uplifting stories oftransformation and triumph,
this podcast will be chock fullof insights you can use to
fully realize the potential ofyour childcare business. Let's
(00:50):
jump in.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Welcome to the Childcare Business Podcast. And
I know I say that intro everytime, but , uh, you know, once
again, excited about our guesttoday. And this is, I believe,
a first on our podcast, arepeat , uh, guest. And so I'm
excited to welcome back PreenaRichards , uh, prea . I'm gonna
(01:17):
actually give you a littleopportunity to introduce
yourself again to our audience.
Uh, you know, I know thatyou're the CEO and founder of
Together We Grow. You'reextremely passionate about the
ECE space and the work that youand your team are doing with,
with providers and, andteachers and children across
the country. Uh, I wannawelcome you back to the show
(01:38):
and give you an opportunity tomaybe reintroduce yourself to
our audience. So, good morning.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
Good morning. Hi Ryan, and thank you for
bringing me back. I didn'trealize I was the first one to
have a repeat , uh, visit onthe podcast. How exciting is
that?
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Yeah, you feel that should make you feel really
special. I mean, this is likean, an honor, and I could be
wrong. We'll have to have ourmarketing team, correct me if
I'm wrong, but I believe thisis at least one of very few
repeat guests. So , um, we'reexcited.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
I am super excited and feeling quite honored and
very loved and special rightnow. So thank you for that
invite. Um, so a tiny bit aboutme. I won't bo too many , too
much details about this, but alittle bit about me. So I've
been in the field of earlychildhood for 38 years. Love
it, love it, love it.
Absolutely. Super passionateabout it. And , um, you are
(02:32):
right. About six years ago, Istarted my own business called
Together We Grow And TogetherWe Grow, provides three
services, professionaldevelopment , um, behavior
coaching, and any YCconsulting. Um, but my, my PD
space is, is a very nichespace. I'd like to talk about
the brain, the behaviors, play,challenging behaviors, trauma,
(02:57):
social, emotional learning,team building. That's, that's
my jam. That's what I wannatalk about and make a
difference , um, in that space.
Also, I'm a behavior coach, soI have a coaching membership
online, but I also coach inperson . And then of course,
you know, programs that want togo for high quality and
development appropriatepractices, which happens to be
(03:18):
our topic today.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
It is our topic today. And you come to this, to
this role, to this industry, tothe business that you started
six years ago , um, from where,walk us through and just for
our audience, for those of youwho might not remember, if you
wanna go back and listen toepisode 19, back in November of
2021, we had PREA on the showand talked a little bit about
(03:44):
her background, which itactually PREA is really
interesting. I know we doveinto a little bit about, you
know, your early years growingup in India. Your husband, I
believe, from Scotland made areally big move to a different
part of the world, also spentsome time in Hawaii, which is
where you were really exposedto , um, ECE and following in ,
(04:04):
falling in love with, with thiswork. Uh, anything else you
would add about your backgroundand how you got into the work
that you do right now? Wow.
Speaker 3 (04:14):
Wow. Yeah . That's amazing. That's impressive
because I don't know what Isaid yesterday. You remember
what I said in 21 ?
reheard it, but No, that is alltrue. We were in Hawaii and
then we've been in Texas nowfor 25 plus years. Um, this
really was not my plan. My, myeducation in India was in
(04:36):
interior design, and then wehad our daughters and we were
in Scotland, and I wanted to bea big part of , uh, you know,
their early childhood. And sothis kind of found me. And so I
would like to say that this wasmore of a divine plan than pre
not plan. And I'm in this fieldknowing that now this is my
(04:56):
calling and that this is whereI'm supposed to make a
difference in. And really, Ithink what happened is
education in India is superdry, super boring, super non
brain engaging. And so I hatededucation when I was growing
up. It was so drill and killand sit and get. But when I ,
of early childhood for myundergrad, I had found like,
(05:20):
wow, I can't stop learningabout the brain. I can't stop
learning about the kids. Right?
It's, it's just because thecontent and the delivery
resonated with me coming fromeducation background that I
didn't like, get me out ofhere. I don't learn anything in
school.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
Yeah. And so you gravitated toward , and it's
probably a good segue, youknow, in terms of some of the
content and what we want totalk about today. 'cause I, I,
I know you've talked a lotabout the importance of brain
development in these first fiveyears, and we talked about it
the last time you were on theshow. I think a lot of our
audience is familiar with the ,the importance of birth through
(05:58):
five and the amount of braindevelopment that goes into it.
I believe last time we spoke,you had the quote that was 90%
of of a child's brain isdeveloped by the time they're
five years old. And, and that,that kind of weaves in with the
topic today of talking aboutdevelopmentally appropriate
practices. Can you define whatthat is and why you're
(06:21):
passionate about it?
Speaker 3 (06:23):
That's a great place to start this conversation.
Yes. So 90% of the braindevelopment is happening, birth
to five . And what does thatmean if we just unpack this
research, right? This researchis coming out that the early
years are impactful. They canabsolutely lay the foundation
for the rest of our life. So Ilike to think of it, what
happens early in life lasts alifetime. That's another way of
(06:47):
thinking of 90% braindevelopment. What happens early
in life lasts a lifetime. Ifyou are a grownup struggling
with, you know, life issues andyou're in therapy, my heart
goes out to you because it ,you know, and I'm grateful for
therapists, don't get me wrong,but it's so much more expensive
and harder to fix somethingthan raise it right? And we can
(07:08):
get away with what happens tous in our early years. It just
becomes part of our life story,life history. And so keeping
that in mind, the programs thatwe are serving through ProCare
is exactly that space. Earlychildhood and developmentally
appropriate practice has becomelike a hot potato right now.
(07:29):
Some people love it, somepeople hate it. There's a new
reaction to it. There's, peoplehave an opinion about this. And
so I wanna start off theconversation by explaining
where I'm coming from and whatI think of developing the
appropriate practice means tome, developing the appropriate
practice has two parts, as faras I'm concerned. It is age
(07:51):
appropriate, but also it has tobe individual appropriate. So
what can that three-year-olddo? But then what does this
little human being in front ofme, this little Sophie, this
little Alex, what does thatlittle human know and do and
can , can show us? What , whatdo they need from us? So
developmentally appropriate isjust that, you know, NAYC ,
(08:13):
most of us are familiar withnational association education
of young children. This is theo this is the National
Association in America, I donot believe is international
yet, as far as I know, it'snational. In America , they
came up with this phrasedevelopmentally appropriate and
best practices. So I've beenpart of NAYC now for the past
(08:35):
30 years. And what I like aboutNCI is that it's based on
research. So it's not justrandomly somebody sitting in a
room and just saying, Hmm ,let's do this to children. You
know, there's actual brainresearch going on. Their
standards align with what'sbest for children. So NACI had
(08:56):
this tagline, developing theappropriate practices are best
practices. In 2021, they did aplay summit, DAP Equity Summit,
and maybe somebody in youraudience was attending that. I
had the pleasure of attendingit. They have now changed the
phrase. So instead of sayingdap, I'm just gonna call it
(09:19):
dap, but that's okay.
Developing the appropriatepractice is a mouthful.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
You get, you get to call it whatever you want.
You're the star of the show. SoI like it. We'll call it dap,
Speaker 3 (09:27):
Just call it dap, just to keep it tight, right?
So they first said DAP was bestpractices. Now they're saying
it's not best for everybody, sowe gotta go with high quality.
So DAP becomes high quality,but it's not one thing. It's a
way of thinking. And we canunpack that more. So that's
(09:50):
what it means to me, that it'sage appropriate, it's
individual appropriate. We arestretching the rubber band for
children. We are not making itso challenging or so easy that
they get frustrated or they getover challenged and give up it
. It's meeting them wherethey're at.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Do you , where did this, where did the focus on
this come from? I'm curious.
Meaning is it the research thatyou referenced earlier, is it
actually looking at outelementary school and middle
school, high school, evencollege, and then enter the
workforce and doing studies andresearch about, you know, what
(10:27):
their education or lack ofeducation looked like from zero
to five, and then trying toreverse engineer that? Or I'm
curious, what type of researchwent into establishing these
practices?
Speaker 3 (10:41):
Um , great question.
Wonderful question. So I thinkit's a bit of both. So Head
Start has done a lot ofresearch. Uh , education
agencies have done a lot ofresearch. And NACI happens to
be where the research birth tofive , uh, birth to eight, NACI
has extended it. Now birth toeight , um, is focused knowing
(11:05):
that how can children besuccessful in elementary and
beyond ? Which is yourquestion, how did we end up
here? And I think what ended uphappening is they learned more
about child growth anddevelopment, which of course,
you know, our college coursesand people learn this as a
study and they get bachelor'sand masters and PhDs in it. And
what they're realizing is braindevelopment, child growth and
(11:27):
development has some componentsthat sets you up for success.
So, you know, head Start , I'veworked with Head Start and
their goal is to get familiesoff of Head Start so that the
cycle is not repeated for thenext generation. And they rely
heavily on the research thatNACE is doing to say, how can
we give all children the beststart in life so that they
(11:49):
break the cycle of poverty?
Head Start is an amazingprogram. I'm so grateful it
exists. But the point of thatis to give you skills, life
skills so that you can besuccessful and be thriving
versus repeating the cycle ofpoverty that your previous
generations had. Right? So toanswer your question, yes, it
was a combination ofunderstanding child growth and
(12:09):
brain development,understanding how some things
that become part of who we areas part of brain development
goes, sets up us for success.
Like executive function skills,right? Executive function
skills happen to be problemsolving, critical thinking ,
um, creative thinking , uh,regulation, core regulat ,
these are life skills that weknow we are gonna need.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
That's exactly right. And I, that's what I was
going to get to is, you know,at a macro level talking about
what DAP is and the concept ofit. But I think what would be
helpful is just on a microlevel , tactically in a
classroom, what does that looklike? Because you're talking
about appropriate activities,it's developmentally
(12:53):
appropriate for the age of thechild and the individual. And
I'm sure that's difficult ifI'm a teacher that has a
classroom with a range of , uhmm-hmm ,
know , maybe developmentlevels, even personalities. And
like you said, there's a lot ofother factors outside of the
classroom that impact thatstudent. What's going on at
(13:15):
home and what happened in theirfirst three years of life.
Mm-Hmm,
teacher, mm-hmm ,
wherever you wanna take it ,uh, prea , but I would ask,
what does it look like topractice DAP in my classroom?
And what does it look like ifI'm not maybe is a question
(13:35):
that I have? What's thedifference?
Speaker 3 (13:36):
Love it. Love it, love it. Let's go there. Let's
give practical strategies. Whatdoes this theory look like now
that we understand theimportance of it? How do I show
up and do this in my everydayclassroom and everyday program?
So two parts. One thing is toremember that DAP is not a
specific activity becausepeople ask me all the time, is
this a DAP activity for infantsand toddlers or preschool? So
(13:59):
DAP is not an activity, DAP isa way of thinking. So my
mindset changes when I look atdevelopmentally appropriate
from a child's perspective. Sothey, so we emphasize being
responsive, responsive soundsand feels and looks different
than being unresponsive. Soresponsive doesn't mean I'm on
(14:21):
top of the kids hovering them.
I'm right there. I'm not givingthem space. Responsive means I
am present, I'm being paying, Iam paying attention to when the
children need scaffolding andwhen do I need to back off. So
DAP is a way of thinking. It'sapproaching teaching,
(14:43):
recognizing brain development,recognizing that how does a
child's brain get wired? How dothe neurons make a connection?
It has three components. So thetwo parts are be responsive and
make it with equity. So beforeI go down the three parts to
it, the mindset is I am beingresponsive, I'm being present,
(15:04):
I'm being available, I ammeeting the needs in the
present moment. Equity meansthat I'm personalizing it. So
with equity, the way I like tothink of equity is it's a
fertilizer. When we bring theangle of equity, it changes the
way I'm going to personalizethe teaching. That doesn't mean
I have to have different lessonplans for my 14 children. What
(15:27):
that means is that you can dothis on your own and you need a
little bit more time to exploreit and understand it before you
do it. So allowing them thespace and doing it. And it
doesn't mean that I have tocreate many different lesson
plans. What it means is as Ibring the appropriate practices
to the classroom, so let'sstick with a three year ,
(15:48):
4-year-old classroom,preschool, pre-K classroom,
just for our conversation'ssake, right now, what we know
about DAP is that we need tohave these components in our,
in our teaching strategy,something where the children
have choices. So choicesengages the brain, because I
also like to say choices equalsvoices. How many opportunities
(16:12):
are you giving children duringthe day to make a choice? Can
they choose the toy? Can theychoose the play? Can they
choose the friend? Can theychoose where to sit? Can they
choose the song? Can theychoose the book? Like the ,
these are areas I can give themchoices that doesn't affect my
lesson plan. I can weave thatin, right? That's my way of
thinking. I'm thinking in a waythat I wanna give you a voice.
(16:33):
So I'm gonna throughout my day,make you inclusive. So the
teacher's not the sage on thestage, the teacher is part of
the school family community.
And it's an approach, it's athinking. So choices, how many
opportunities am I givingchildren to have choices? The
second one is wonder andexperience. How many ways am I
going to bring something in myroom that makes them have the
(16:56):
sense of wonder that makes themhave the sense of discovery
that makes them want toexperience and explore? Right?
And the third part is, what amI doing in my classroom that is
bringing joy and delight?
Because we know the emotion ofjoy is the emotion of learning.
(17:17):
When my brain is joyful, whenmy brain is excited, my brain
is going to learn. Becausethat's when the brain neurons
are just like, oh my God, tellme more . Oh my God, that's so
cool, right? That brain getsexcited for learning. So if I'm
in my preschool classroom,surely I can include choice in
my circle time. Surely I caninclude choice in my
(17:38):
transitions. Surely I can ubring them choices in the type
of movement they want to have.
And the type of, I'll give youan example. Maybe examples are
really helpful. I had a teacherwho said to me, you know, my
classroom is a hot mess and,and the behaviors are off the
charts right now, which is notunusual. And she's a really
(18:01):
good teacher. She really wantsto do the right thing, but she
just can't get through to thekids because she is, the
behaviors are over here. Andone of the things I said to her
was this, for this week, I wascoaching her and I said, for
this week, your homework is togive them choices, as many
choices as you can throughoutthe day. And she said , what
does that mean? I said, everytime you are gonna make a
(18:23):
decision about reading a book,singing a song, doing anything,
I want you to ask the kids whatwould you like to do? This one
or this one, this one or thisone. I just want you to start
doing this. And she said, so Imet her the week, the next week
after, and I said, how is itgoing? And she said , Trina ,
my classroom is different.
We've had no, no fighting, nocrying, no pushbacks . And I
(18:46):
said, what happened? What didyou change? And she said, every
day I would go to school and Iwould say, I have to give the
children choices. That was mymantra for the day. And she
said, every day I give , keptgiving them little by little.
And what I realized was Ididn't realize how much control
I was doing when I startedreleasing the choices. She had
an aha moment that said, oh myGod, I was so controlling. And
(19:10):
guess what? The behaviors werecoming because she was
controlling.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
Yeah. And I was just gonna ask you to elaborate on
that, which is what you justdid, which is, I, I think a lot
of teachers likely are scaredto allow that many choices
because the fear of losingcontrol, like it's gonna be
chaos and kids are gonna be,you know, bouncing off the
walls. But I think what I'mhearing you say is by providing
(19:34):
opportunities for children tomake choices, it's going to
encourage and foster thatenvironment where they're
learning what they need to belearning.
Speaker 3 (19:44):
And also the brain is excited and they're having
fun, right? So this teacher,she, the last day when I spoke
to her, I just wanna finish herstory because she gave me such
a clear example. She said, Inormally would not have brought
out the rhythm sticks and thescarves, like the control goes
to that level. She said,normally I would not have
bought that out because theclassroom would've become a
(20:05):
chaotic hot mess and I wouldnot have been able to deal with
it. Because she had built theramp of giving them choices on
Friday. They said, can we havethe scarves? And she said ,
sure, why not? She gave themclear guidelines. She said,
don't throw, don't hit, don'tscream. If any of this happens.
We put the scarfs away. And Iasked her , I said, what
(20:26):
happened? She said, guess what?
I didn't have to correct theirbehaviors. They were so happy,
they were so excited, they wereso enjoying it that we just
went with the flow. And I am adifferent teacher now. I am
going to seriously not be ascontrolling as I was before.
But you know, you brought upsomething really important and
I wanna go forward with thatright now. Behaviors are off
(20:48):
the charts. Stress is
Speaker 2 (20:51):
When , when you say, when you say off the charts,
define what you mean by that.
When you say behaviors are offthe charts.
Speaker 3 (20:56):
Extreme, extreme aggression, extreme anger,
extreme meltdowns, extremepushbacks, defiance, rudeness,
you name it, it's happening inour programs. The behaviors are
off the charts, but also thestress is off the charts. And
here's my analogy that I justliterally came up with it this
morning. It is that earlychildhood right now is in the
(21:20):
emergency room. We have reachedthe emergency room. And as a
behavior specialist, I'mgetting called in, but our
teachers are on the gurney, ourchildren are on the gurney, and
I'm expected to do triage.
Mm-Hmm .
definition of triage is quickassessment. What do we need to
(21:44):
do to help this situation,which is life and death. Early
childhood right now is in theemergency room. The behaviors
are telling us that the stressis way up there, which is
really good job security as abehavior coach. But we cannot
continue like this and wecannot raise the next
generation with this muchstress.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
Can I ask your opinion on why that's the case?
You've been in the industry fora long time, and what I'm
hearing you say is, when I walkinto a classroom environment
today, Mm-Hmm ,
years ago or 20 years ago whenI started. Mm-Hmm .
Speaker 3 (22:27):
I think it's a very societal thing that's happening
right now. We're all livingunder a lot of divisions,
stress, anxiety, reactions, andfamilies are under more stress.
Parents are more under distress. They don't have the time for
the kids. The kids come to theprogram already not having
(22:49):
their emotional needs met. Andthe the staff is the same
reflection of what's happeningbecause they're getting
stressed out and they're goinghome. And so I have , um, this
is my , uh, my taking, I had towrite this down because I was
just like, oh my God, thismakes so much sense to me. So
as a triage doctor, here's mythinking, here's the cause.
(23:12):
T-C-C-L-I love acronyms, Ryan ,I think you know this about me
because that's the only way Ican remember anything in my
braint. CCL is the cause. Thisis my diagnosis that what is
happening. The first one isthere's triggered educators, I
might even say adults ingeneral, parents, teachers just
triggered, just stressed out.
The second thing that'shappening for the sea is a lot
(23:34):
of command and demand ishappening. We are putting a lot
of emphasis on compliance. Andthat shows up in SOS sit down,
be obedient, and be silent. Mm. So, because we don't know
what else to do, we are tryingto control them. Right? And
that becomes a third. Thesecond C, the TCC. So the
second C is controlling adults.
(23:55):
It shows up in controlling playmovement, toys. And it's not
developmentally appropriatebecause their brain is not
being engaged and they'rereacting. And the last l, the
TCCL is, this is leading toextremely frustrated children.
So their behaviors arehappening, which is challenging
the grownups, right? It's allconnected. You are trying to
(24:19):
control me. You stressed out,you don't listen to me, you
don't understand me. So Ireact. You react, we all react
and the cycle continues. Sothis is my diagnose as the
specialist. This is my diagnosewhy you're in the emergency,
right? If you go to emergency,you're gonna have a doctor
triage or cause Okay, what'sthe cause what's this , what's
(24:39):
the remedy ? So here's myremedy. The remedy comes in.
Well, D, SD right? Do somethingdifferent. That's, that's like
what's working, what we aredoing right now, we gotta
change. We got a D, s, D ,right? That's the , that's
where I'm starting this. Andthe solution is SEP,
Speaker 2 (24:57):
We are, we are gonna do acronyms today on, on every
Totally . Totally . I like it.
So we've got T, C , C , L . Yep. Then we need D, S , D . Yes .
And now we're gonna SEP, let'shear. That's
Speaker 3 (25:10):
Explanation . That's your medicine. Okay . So I'm ,
I'm giving a medicine. So, butfirst, you know, before we,
right, if you go to anemergency, the doctor's gonna
diagnose what's the problem,right ? Before we get on the
solution. That's the, so doesdoes the cause make sense to
you before I go forward withthe solution? Does that cause
make sense?
Speaker 2 (25:28):
It does make sense.
And I think what I'm hearingyou say also is the behaviors
we see might be symptoms ofwhat's actually happening deep
within a child's brain or theiremotion. And same thing when
you go to a , you know, an er,they're gonna see your
symptoms, but your issue isn't,you know, a a , a headache.
(25:48):
There's something else going onthat's causing that. And so it
makes total sense.
Speaker 3 (25:52):
I you are spot on.
Ryan. Behavior is a form ofcommunication. What we are
seeing on the outside, theseextreme behaviors that we are
seeing on the outside from thegrownups and the children, let
me just emphasize thatbehaviors are not just coming
from the children. Behaviorsare also coming from the
grownups because they'recontrolling, because they want
them to sit and listen and beobedient. And they don't give
(26:13):
them the freedom becausethey're scared that they'll get
the hot chaos. But there'sbackfiring. So, SEP, what does
that stand for? Sort, emphasizeand prioritize. So first of
all, we have to sort out thebrain states. And we have to
understand that when I'm in myscared brain, the behavior
looks different. When I'm in myemotional brain, the behavior
looks different, then I need tofigure out the responses. So we
(26:36):
gotta sort out the brain states. We also gotta sort out what
is triggering me. So forexample, I can't stand it when
kids don't listen. I have fourgrandchildren, but people not
listening is a big trigger tome. Like, come on, I've already
said it like five times, like,why do I have to repeat myself?
But I've come up with asolution for that, right? I,
I'm not telling them I'mfeeling ignored. Ignoring is
(26:57):
not a good emotion. So I gottago with it. I gotta sort out my
brain state that I'm gettingemotional about it, I'm getting
frustrated. Then I have to havea plan with my triggers. Also,
recognizing that a lot of thebehaviors that are happening
are attention seeking . So whenchildren's emotional brain is
(27:18):
empty, when their buckets areempty, they're gonna act out. I
was coaching a school yesterdayand she said to me, she said,
the teacher is so fed up andtired and exhausted, and she's
checked out because the kidsare hitting her, ignoring her,
yelling at her. And she's justhad it up to here. And so they
were out in the playground andthe boys in the pre-K classroom
(27:38):
were peeing on
Speaker 2 (27:41):
Each other . Okay, sounds like a fun day.
Speaker 3 (27:43):
No, but this is like extreme attention seeking ,
right? These boys are so hungryfor attention that they're
willing to do that. They'refour years old, they know
better, but they're trying toget connected to somebody. I'm
gonna do this. Even if you lookat me, just call me. That's
what I'm doing right now. I'mdoing attention seeking to that
level. Yeah. Does that makesense? We are in the emergency
(28:05):
room doing stuff like thisright now. We can't do this
anymore. 90% of the brain isgetting wired. We are wasting
these years. And so that's thes we gotta sort out the brain,
sort out the triggers. And thene is, we gotta emphasize on
relationships. We gotta go backto the basics. We gotta commit,
connect with our hearts. And ithas to be a connection between
(28:25):
the administrators, thecoaches, the teachers, the
children. We have got tounderstand each other from our
heart connection, not the headconnection. We gotta teach to
the heart first before we teachto the head. And that's also D
right? I'm individualizing it.
Some days are learning days andsome days are loving days. You
just need to be hugged today.
Okay? Forget that. And youknow, when I was explaining
(28:47):
earlier with making it choicesand wonder and delight paper,
like did sheets won't do thatto the brain. That's just
boring. You are wasting papermaking hundreds of copies. It
doesn't engage the brain,right? The sense of wonder has
to come with what new thing doyou have in my room? So I hope
you're understanding that thisis not a one and thing. It's a
, it's a mindset. We look atthe whole thing and then we
(29:12):
connect with the children. Andthe piece stands for
prioritizing connect before youCorrect. Connect before you,
correct. The more we connectwith someone, the less we'll
correct. So for example, whatdoes that sound like, look
like? If the , if these werepreschool boys that I was
dealing with and they weredoing this behavior on the
playground, instead of justcorrecting them and saying,
(29:32):
stop doing that, and that'sinappropriate. That's not what
you do. This is not bathroom,blah, blah, blah. I would've
gone up to them and said , whathappened? How come you're doing
that? What is this about?
What's going on? What are youfeeling? Right? So connect
before you, correct. Soundslike ask and then tell. But we
are so programmed to jumpinginto telling that we forget to
(29:54):
ask. There's a reason why thekids are doing this. Ask them
at two, they could tell you atthree, they could tell you they
know what's happening, butnobody's asking them.
Speaker 2 (30:05):
Yeah. That's interesting. You know,
observations, because youobviously talk to a lot of
teachers and, and when you talkabout the behaviors that
they're seeing in theclassrooms with these students,
the reality is the teachersalso are dealing classroom that
they're bringing into theclassroom. And so I, I love
what I'm hearing and, andcorrect me if I'm wrong on
(30:25):
this, but a lot of what we needto do to help these kids and
maybe change the narrative ofwhat you just described, kids
being in the er so to speak asan analogy, is we gotta help
the teachers first and theteachers als need to understand
what's happening in theirclassroom is a symptom. And we
(30:46):
have to go tr treat the rootcause, which is mm-hmm ,
caring for that . I think
Speaker 3 (30:52):
We need to do a webinar on this because we , we
can't just do it in a ta littlenuggets on the top. Like, we
gotta go deep with this contentbecause I really feel this is,
this is important. We can dobetter when we know better. But
so many grownups don't knowanything about the brain. I'm
shocked, I'm surprised as Italk to teachers, they're like,
I had no idea. I had no idea.
(31:13):
I'm like, you need to knowthis. Yeah , you're developing
the brain. How do you not knowthis? But you can't give what
you don't have a stressed outteacher teaches stress. A
joyful teacher teaches joy. Wecannot do dap unless we are
taking care of the grownups.
The equity has to go with thegrownups too. We're expecting
(31:34):
teachers to do so much, but weare not giving them the tools
of the brain development. Weare not giving them the tools
of social emotional , right? Sohow many of us know about the
vocabulary of co-regulation andcompliance and self-regulation?
So many of us don't know aboutthis. If the grownup is
dysregulated, how are theygonna co-regulate the little
humans?
Speaker 2 (31:56):
Yeah, that makes total sense. And is this
getting back, I'm curious fromyour perspective, are the
things that you're talkingabout now, the developmentally
appropriate practices, thecaring, the bringing joy into
the classroom, bringing wonder,bringing choices. Is this new
methodology or is this justgetting back to the way it used
(32:19):
to be? And we've kind ofdeviated over time and it's
more of, hey, there's, thisisn't new, this is just getting
back to the core.
Speaker 3 (32:26):
This is it. We are doing basics. Yeah . We have
gone down this path of pushingcurriculum down, which is not
appropriate. We've gone downthis path of expecting little
humans to sit when they're notdevelopmentally made to sit
this long. Brains don't learnlike this. And this is the
result why we are in theemergency right now. Because we
(32:47):
have gone so far from what ishow children learn. Children
learn through play, childrenmake sense of play, they make
the world make sense throughplay. And we are shutting down
play. We are controlling play,we are hijacking play. We are
not allowing them the freedomto play. And normal. When you
and I were growing up, I'mprobably older than you, much
(33:07):
older than you, but when wewere growing up, we had
unstructured playtime. That'swhen we were regulating our
bodies. We were out in nature.
Nature has a capacity toregulate us. Now. We are not
now we've taken that away. Andpost covid , I hate to bring
this word up, but post covid ,we have not been able , some
(33:29):
people have not been able toshake the effects of covid on
their brains yet. And so we areliving with the stress brain.
We are living in the survivalbrain. And it shows up when we
can't connect to the littlehumans. The little humans need
connection and they're notgetting it. So we act out the ,
you know, think about it. Whenyou are three years old, you've
(33:50):
been on this planet earth for athousand days. In those
thousand days, you have learnedhow to get your needs met
appropriate, not appropriate,good, bad, doesn't matter. I
need it, I'm gonna get it. Butnow we have a point . Now we've
reached emergency, we gotta dothe triage and we gotta turn
(34:11):
this around . And the good newsis, the schools that I've
coached and I've helped, I haveseen the staff changing. I have
seen their mindsets changing.
And even I was coaching aperson the other day and she
said, our school age room is so, uh, so stressful. There's a
child who just comes inaggressive with an attitude.
She doesn't know what to do,and the teacher just shuts
(34:32):
down. She becomes reactive. AndI said, what do you know about
this child? She said, well, Idon't know much, but what
should I find out? And I said,go spend some time with this
child and find out what thischild likes to do and come to
find out of the sports. And Isaid, your job is to connect
with her every single time shecomes. What's your favorite
team? What , what sports do youlike to do? Just that
(34:54):
one-on-one, one-on-one. Justgive her that attention. And
she said, don't you think it'sbad to give attention when
they're doing negativebehavior? And I said, yeah, but
you also recognize thatattention seeking is a
relationship seeking need.
Mm-Hmm . So give her therelationship and see if the
behavior changes within a week.
The child is not acting upanymore because she's feeling
(35:16):
seen and heard and understood.
And it wasn't a rocket sciencething I said. So what I'm
sharing today is not rocketscience. You don't have to go
by a new curriculum. You justhave to become more human.
Speaker 2 (35:29):
Yeah. Which is amazing. Which is amazing
principle that, you know ,resonates I think with so much
of our audience. I think when Ihear you talk prea and I hear
you kind of lay out some ofthese, you know what I would
say, a lot of acronyms, a lotof modern, you know, kind of
like what we're seeing in theclassroom, but also just
getting back to the basics ofbeing a human being and
(35:50):
actually having compassion andempathy and letting kids be
kids. And I also think when Ihear you talk, that that will
end up also solving some of theother challenge we see in our
industry, which is teachersburning out. Because if a
classroom is not a place of, ofjoy, of wonder, of looking
(36:11):
forward to showing up andseeing those kids every day ,
you're gonna burn out. And Ithink that's one of the, the
symptoms that we're seeing inthe industry right now.
Speaker 3 (36:20):
So , you know, the def Yeah. You know, the You're
spot on. You're spot on. Right, exactly. That is, we just
need to go back to basics,connections with the heart
being human, being available,being compassionate, being
understanding. We are notmachines and we can become
machines. But you know, thedefinition of burnout, you ,
Speaker 2 (36:39):
You
don't think I do. Let's hearit.
Speaker 3 (36:43):
So , so this is my, my understanding of definition,
I i i of burnout, I saw itsomewhere . I'm just like, oh
my god, that resonates with me.
Burnout is when you put outmore and what you get back is
not in proportion. So that'swhat happens to a burnout. I'm
putting out more and I'm notgetting the return back. So if
(37:03):
I'm putting out 120% and I onlyget 40% out back, I'm gonna
probably get burnt out.
Speaker 2 (37:10):
Yeah. You're not refueling your , you're ,
you're , you're gonna be emptyand don't have anything more to
give. And that's gonna createsome of the challenges you're
describing .
Speaker 3 (37:19):
So it could be, I put , I put 120 in my job. I
don't get it back. I put it inmy employees. I don't get it
back. I do put it in mycoworkers . I don't get it
back. I put it for children. Idon't get it back. Whatever is
not coming back to you whereyou feel, where your brain
feels I'm doing more than I'mgetting back. That's when the
burnout starts. And if you'renot careful, the burnout leads
(37:41):
to a full burn up . Like youwould burn up . Like, you know,
I'm traveling a lot for workright now , and I'm meeting so
many Uber drivers and they usedto be teachers.
Speaker 2 (37:50):
Wow .
Speaker 3 (37:50):
And they can't do it anymore. They , our , our
industry has such a mass exitand they've gone to Ubering ,
uh, and this is what happened.
They ended up in the emergencyand they said, no more. I can't
do this life anymore.
Speaker 2 (38:03):
And it becomes systematic too, because I also
have a lot of friends that areeducators in , in higher grades
as well. Mm-Hmm . And I thinkthere's a lot of these same
issues because it starts atzero to five and these kids are
struggling in the classroom,teachers are struggling, and
then it just perpetuatesitself. So it really does in a
lot of ways start Yeah . Withour industry. And, you know,
(38:26):
our share ,
Speaker 3 (38:27):
We did a full circle. We just did a full
circle. We were trying tofigure out why it has to be
early because we are laying thefoundation. And really why I'm
am really more concerned, andthis analogy of the emergency
is really resonating with mybrain right now is because we
can't fail the next generation.
The children who are under fiveright now, think about it. In
20 years they'll be runningthis country. Yeah. They'll be
(38:49):
in 2030 space. Uh , do theyhave the life skills? Do they
have resiliency? Do they havepersistence? Do they have grit?
Do they have tenacity? Are theyproblem solving all children
through developmentallyappropriate play, learn these
skills. But if I'm not allowingyou to play, if I'm controlling
play, and I control you whereyou can play, who you can play
(39:10):
with, what you can move, I'mnot giving you the opportunity
to flex your muscles. So Iwon't have the skills.
Speaker 2 (39:16):
Yeah. And then it's gonna just continue to follow
you, you know, through life.
That, that's one of the thingsthat always strikes me, which I
know it's true. And you talkedabout this even a few years
ago, but how much of that braindevelopment that happens by the
time you go into kindergartenat five years old, 90%. And
that can be an amazing thingbecause it , for a student or a
(39:37):
child that grows up in aloving, nurturing environment
that allows play, allows themto be them and encourages that,
that can actually, you know, bethe foundation that launches
them into life. But you know,the opposite can happen too.
And that's why you know, thework you're doing, and a lot of
these topics are so important.
How can people find you? I knowwe're gonna put this in the
(39:59):
show notes, and I know thatyou're out , um, really being
an evangelist, so to speak forthis topic. And you know, you
can influence and help so manypeople, but I also know there's
other great , uh, you know,coaches and consultants that
are doing some of this work aswell. But for you personally,
preena , how can our audiencefind you if they wanna learn
(40:19):
more about some of these, thesetopics?
Speaker 3 (40:22):
Fabulous. So together we grow online is the
website , um, on Instagram's ,uh, Facebook, LinkedIn. I also
have a YouTube channel togetherwe grow 108, which has got
five, seven minutes brainvideos. But on my website,
there's tons of, tons ofresources you can download for
free. I'm also offering abehavior intervention
specialist certification. Nowwe are wrapping up the first
(40:44):
cohort , uh, which finishes inbeginning of June, but the
second cohort will start inOctober because I want to
really, what I've realized isthat this methodology is
working and it has transformedso many programs. So I wanna
help more people becomecertified so they can help more
(41:04):
teachers and , um, you know ,um, we have to do this
together. We, we cannot ignorewhere we are right now. We just
can't turn our face the otherway. We just can't.
Speaker 2 (41:15):
Yeah. I'm glad there's people like you that
are, you know, fighting thegood fight to go make an impact
here. And I think if I heardyou right on that behavioral
training you were just talkingabout , that's more of train
the trainer. So even thoughit's
Speaker 3 (41:26):
Training the coaches, it coaches , coaches,
it's training the coaches ,coaches , it's training the
coaches. I , I have a hundredcoaches right now in the first
cohort. It just launched inMay. I was blown away with the
interest and there's a waitlist already started for the
next one. So I know there's aneed and we are coaching the
coaches who can then supportthe teachers because when we
know better, we do better. Andthe coaching certification has
(41:48):
got a foundational framework.
It's all brain research, it'sall based on best high quality
practices, but it starts withus knowing our mind inside out.
So you can't just fix thebehavior outside. It has to
change with inside out .
Speaker 2 (42:04):
Yeah. Super important topic, and I really
appreciate you taking more timewith us. I know you're
extremely busy and , and inhigh demand. So the fact that
you take time to be on ourpodcast, and I like your idea
too about a webinar at somepoint. I think these are the
things, you know, obviouslyfrom ProCare's perspective,
we're so involved in thebusiness side of ECE and
(42:25):
obviously trying to enable ourcustomers to be able to build
and run sustainable businesses,but at the end of the day, the
focus for everyone is thesekids. Like the how do we put
these kids in an environmentthat's gonna allow them to
thrive? Because that whole fullcircle conversation that you
brought up earlier aboutthey're gonna move into the
(42:49):
next grade and then into theworkforce. And it's important
that we, you know, all
Speaker 3 (42:54):
Support. So, so Ryan, you brought up something
really important. ProCare issupporting early childhood in
such an important way. And Iappreciate you guys so much.
You're doing an amazing,amazing work and you're such an
amazing resource. And you saidyou're focused on business, but
guess what? Every time you losestaff, that's your bottom line.
That's your financial bottomline. And I don't know if
people know this, but everytime you lose a staff is 3,500
(43:16):
down the drain, you just lose3,500 every single time you
have a staff turnover because,you know, and it, it goes to
everywhere. Dissatisfied staffthat leads to children, the
families, it's your business.
You , you can't separate thetwo.
Speaker 2 (43:31):
Yeah, it's important. I like how you put
an actual numeric value on thecost of turnover because, you
know, you invest in training,you invest in recruiting, you
find that teacher, thatassistant teacher, that you
know, employee, and then youhave to start fresh. There's a
huge impact to the business forsure. And and it impacts the
(43:51):
kids too, because when there'sconstant turnover, those
relationships that you talkedabout earlier are impacted. So
I, I think you're right. It'sall connected. Um, and I'll
tell you what, I I reallyappreciate the conversation,
prea , you're always , um, youknow, full of great content
ideas and, and experience. So ,uh, if you guys are interested,
(44:11):
anybody listening to thispodcast, check out the show
notes. You can find pre at thedifferent places she indicated
earlier. And , um, you know,maybe we will , uh, we'll see
again in the future. prea ,thanks again. Thank
Speaker 3 (44:22):
You Ryan, for this opportunity and thank you for
creating a space where we canhave this important
conversation .
Speaker 1 (44:36):
Thank you for listening to this episode of
the Childcare Business Podcast.
To get more insights on ways tosucceed in your childcare
business, make sure to hitsubscribe in your podcast app
so you never miss an episode.
And if you want even morechildcare , business tips,
tricks, and strategies, headover to our resource
center@procaresoftware.com.
(44:56):
Until next time.
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